Obamacare: Is It A Divide-And-Conquer Distraction?

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In March of 2010, Barack Obama signed the Affordable Care Act (otherwise known as “Obamacare”) into law amid a host of economic uncertainties and unwanted Federal Reserve bailouts. Two years before, Washington had confirmed the passage of Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP) measures that had already met with disapproval from, according to some polls, more than 80 percent of Americans. In the meantime, the Occupy Wall Street movement was gaining momentum, involving elements of both traditionally Republican and traditionally Democratic organizations. Self-proclaimed “conservatives” and “liberals” were beginning to find common ground on issues ranging from the overall fiscal system to the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA). The consensus was clear: Government had grown corrupt, power-hungry and ultimately destructive to every citizen regardless of his political affiliation.

However, certain hot-button issues always seem to flood government rhetoric and the mainstream media whenever the U.S. citizenry begins to unify, causing renewed rifts and luring Americans to fight among themselves while the cruise ship on which we are floating sinks into the abyss. Those on the left believe Obamacare is a genuine attempt to institute socialized medicine, and they love it. Those on the right believe Obamacare is a genuine attempt to institute socialized medicine, and they despise it. But what if Obamacare’s government-controlled healthcare plan is only a secondary pursuit, while cutting America down the middle is the first goal?

Consider this: The launch of Obamacare comes at a time when the official national debt of the United States is about $17 trillion and the national deficit is some $1 trillion per year. Keep in mind that when Obama was elected in 2008, the official national debt stood at only $10 trillion. That means the Obama Administration has added more than $7 trillion in debt in only five years.

While mainstream talking heads with low IQs proclaim victory for the Obama camp because of a supposedly “shrinking” deficit, what they either fail to mention or are too stupid to understand is that the official reporting of the deficit does not account for real deficit expenditures each year. The official deficit does not include what government number crunchers call “unfunded liabilities,” like Social Security and Medicare, or off-book agencies like Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. The average taxpayer suffers the costs of such expenditures yet is never counted in official statistics. If one were to tally our true national debt, including “unfunded liabilities,” it would stand anywhere from $120 trillion to more than $200 trillion. The true deficit skyrockets to more than $5 trillion per year (and growing) when such programs are included.

It is hard to say whether Obamacare costs will be openly included in official debt numbers or hidden like most entitlement programs. The point is the government has been lying for quite some time, under multiple Presidents, about the real state of the U.S. economy.

When the White House claims in its talking points that government-assisted healthcare will require a net payment of only $1.1 trillion over the next 10 years, what method of accounting is used? Is this the total cost or just the “official cost” minus off-book liabilities? Even if this ends up being the full and complete spending required, how can Washington afford to burn another $1.1 trillion on top of $5 trillion a year already in the red?

If our national debt continues to climb exponentially, as it has in the wake of the Administrations of Presidents George W. Bush and Obama, will we see another $7 trillion or more added to the “official” number in the next five years?

According to The Washington Post, Obamacare is now a fact of life, even in the face of a government shutdown.

But is this claim really true, or is it just empty posturing? You may like Obamacare, or you may hate Obamacare; but the fact remains that we cannot afford Obamacare at this time. So my first question to proponents of socialized medicine would be: Where is the money going to come from? More taxes? How can Obamacare be funded by increased taxes, when the average median household income has fallen every year for five years in a row.

How about more taxes for the super rich? Four hundred of America’s top earners brought in an average adjustted gross income of $202 million in 2009. If each of these people were taxed 100 percent of his annual income, the resulting $80 billion in revenue would still not be enough to fund Obamacare, let alone our already existing massive debts.

If taxes won’t do the job, what about foreign treasury investment?

U.S. Treasury holdings by foreign creditors witnessed a record sell-off in June of this year, and subsequent purchases have not covered the loss in recent months.

The majority of all Treasury purchases by foreign investors are short-term bonds, meaning international faith in America’s ability to cover its debts has fallen considerably. Creditors now want only bonds that mature quickly, so that they can be liquidated at a moment’s notice. Foreign investment in the United States is currently either static or dropping, depending on the country, meaning no extra cash flow for Obamacare.

At bottom, Obamacare is doomed to failure. The money simply does not exist in order to cover the cost. The math does not add up. Period.

Now, I can understand hard-core socialists being too unintelligent to wrap their heads around this problem. After all, the average socialist thinks government funds will infinitely expand to meet the needs of infinite demand, as long as public wealth is “harmonized” in the process. Socialists are utterly unable to imagine that the money may run out one day, thus decimating the economy.

But what about the establishment? Is the establishment really unaware that Obamacare is unsustainable? I think not. The government creates our false economic reality on a daily basis. It receives the hard financial data and then spins it to suit its particular needs. Government officials are the people who are exposed regularly to our dire fiscal position, yet we are supposed to believe that they are “not aware” of their own crimes. Obama and the banking elites who pull his strings are fully conscious that our economy is on the verge of complete collapse, and they are aware that Obamacare will never survive. So why continue with the charade if there is no mathematical possibility that the program will succeed?

Social division is the only plausible answer. Universal healthcare has been a longtime pursuit of the left, and many Democrats are willing to forgo or completely ignore other dangerous political developments surrounding the White House as long as they finally attain socialized medicine. I have personally engaged in numerous debates with Obama supporters, pointing out his transgressions against the Constitution and the Mideast, his close relationships with the banking elite, and his willingness to throw aside his own promises. Amazingly, some of his supporters admit that Obama is monstrous in many respects, but they still defend him on the basis that “at least he’s going to give us free healthcare.”

In this way, the establishment has retained about 30 percent of the American population as political cannon fodder to be exploited at will by the Obama Administration. And if a government shutdown takes place over Obamacare measures, that percentage may climb as citizens are duped into believing that Tea Party Republicans and their “unwillingness to compromise” are to blame for the situation.

The establishment knows that a financial crisis is upon us, but it wants you to believe that the collapse was caused by “political gridlock,” foreign fiscal schemes or “conservative hubris.” It does not want members of the public to draw any connections between their suffering and the international banking elite behind the greater catastrophe. Obamacare is a red herring, smoke and mirrors, a distraction. While we battle over a program that will never find adequate funding anyway, the rest of the economic system crumbles.

–Brandon Smith

Personal Liberty

Brandon Smith

is the founder of the Alternative Market Project, an organization designed to help you find like-minded activists and preppers in your local area so that you can network and construct communities for barter and mutual aid. Join Alt-Market.com today and learn what it means to step away from the unstable mainstream system and build something better. You can contact Brandon Smith at: brandon@alt-market.com

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  • lokiswife

    A business program several months ago said that Obamacare was designed to make such a mess of healthcare that people would be lining up to get in on a one payer government health care program. This was Obama’s radical agenda before he became a US Senator….take over healthcare and the government takes control over our lives, another step in his radical agenda.

    • Beverly Golato

      This is true. A lot of people I have talked to say they refuse to get insurance and won’t sign up for anything that is government backed. If everyone would do the same and not pay the fine (tax) what will the government do then? Can’t jail everyone? There is an agenda going on here and a lot of planning. FEMA & Homeland Security have set in motion a defense against any uprising of the people in this country, FEMA camps with plastic coffins where they will put any citizen who opposes Obama and his agenda. So welcome to the Banana Republic that used to be America. It’s now called Obama land.

      • Stuart Shepherd

        Beverly- I don’t know about the plastic coffins, but I know you’re “right on” overall. It is an absolute fact that Homeland Security has bought up all the .22 caliber ammo as far as the eye can see. Go ahead and try to purchase it somewhere and see the result. I think it is billions of rounds and it is a matter of public record. What use does “Homeland Security,” and not the military, have with billions of rounds of ammunition?! I can hear the Fuehr saying “Resistance is futile” in a sinister German accent (seriously). If they don’t have plastic coffins I’m sure mass graves with bulldozers to shove all the bodies into them will suffice for the Fuehr and the National Socialist (oops, I meant Democratic) Party sociopaths. After all, they don’t bother with coffins for all the aborted babies- just suck out their sliced up parts with a vacuum syringe into a little plastic trash can lined receptacle on the wall and dump it, literally, in the trash. Or Dr Gosnell who clogged up the toilet trying to flush a baby down there! Having been born in 1960, I would never, ever, ever have believed america could come to this. The parallels to both Rome and Germany are just too numerous and I’ve concluded that there really is no hope for America.

        • dan

          like any over whelming problem you solve it by prioritizing ,,,then taking it one step at a time.
          As the Sioux ….or was it the Apache used to say :
          ‘They all sleep somewhere at night…’

        • Beverly Golato

          All those old camps that were closed down have been renovated by FEMA, I have seen pictures of the plastic coffins. What other reason would there be for these camps? I recall that we used them in WW2 to house American citizens, have they not learned from that?

        • Doug Sand

          No Hope? Get that thought out of your mind now and stop thinking that way! That’s what’s wrong with all you bleeding hearts out there who are unwilling to get off your ass and do something about the problem! We all know who and what the problem is, so why aren’t we doing something about it!@? I’ve been trying to find some like minded people to join with or join me to fight and win back our country, but do you know what I get instead? Nothing but replies from different folks with defeatest attitudes afraid that it would be a lost cause. A losing battle with no chance. What the hell People!!? The British could have taken the states pretty easily since they outnumbered us 3 to 1. The reason we were enjoying the freedoms we had was because our ancestors refused to back down! Now look at us! Too damn afraid to even come out of your house and vote. I’m glad you can face your kids and grand kids in the eye and tell them that you did NOTHING to protect their freedoms from being trampled on and taken away.! Nobody wants to die, but who wants to live in a place where freedom is something we used to have.

          • dan

            the 22ca was just for suppressive fire and practice ,anyway…the day for practice has passed

            It’s a good day to die (anyway)__ Crazy Horse

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            It would be useless to stage a revolution when so many people are still so brainwashed. Even if we won, we would just be trading one Dictator for another. The best thing we can do now is to win our schools back and educate our children properly — removing them from the Propaganda. When the vast majority have come to recognize Government for what it really is — Just a very large self-serving Gang — then we would have a chance at a real change.
            http://mises.org/daily/5363/The-Next-American-Revolution-Wont-Be-Like-the-First

        • NO PRO HOMO AGENDA

          Don’t forget about the rampant homosexuality that was an open part of Rome & the Nazi’s dirty little secret….we are having a Sodom & Gomorrah redux here now, too!

      • smilee

        Such wishful thinking!!!

    • smilee

      Single payer is not a take over of healthcare but take over of health care insurance. It has been proven in many places to be much much more efficient and many of those counties have better outcomes than us. I know people in some of those countries and they love their system and it does not control their lives but improves it..Most countries do not require their businesses to provide insurance and companies are more competitive in the global markets. Where it is done. It is not radical because it works great for them. A lot of rhetoric to the contrary here but that is all it is.

      • vicki

        smilee lets the cat out of the bag by writing:

        “Single payer is not a take over of healthcare but take over of health care insurance.”

        Then again that has rather been the point of some discussion. It is the takeover of 2 industries. Healthcare Insurance AND Healthcare. Now what political philosophy advocates the state control of private industry? Hmmmm.?

        http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism

        • IsThisAmerica

          smilee is just a wart. Let him/her buy obamacare, sign up with these people who have no background checks because the government didn’t have time to run them. Then if ID theft happens to him/her don’t pay him/her any mind. You did it to yourself. The government can not legally force us to buy anything.

          • vicki

            The government forces us to buy auto insurance so you are right it is not legal but they do it anyway. And now with health insurance too.

        • smilee

          The commerce clause of the Constitution allows this guess you do not believe in it but rather the philosophy of what you prefer.. What in health care itself does it take over??.

  • Lee Berry

    Obama’s goal has always been to topple us – and this is just another jug of gas on the fire.

    • Stuart Shepherd

      Obama is too stupid and too much of a slickster to have had a “goal” other than his own narcissistic fulfillments. However, the end result is the same.

      • dan

        …his financiers (CAIR ,now the WTF , Soros , China and
        the World Banker Cartel)have a goal for their useful idiot…
        and they already pulled off the biggest coup since the CiA
        drug/arms cartel took out Kennedy.

      • Pinchy Puxley

        Get what he wants, change the nation the way he wants, or let it collapse..this is what OBOZO is about!! A modern day Nero!

    • StinkBomb Jones

      To tax someone if they don’t buy something they don’t want or need & to use that money to pay for that same thing for someone else is the very definition of socialism & sets a horrible precedent. What is to stop the govt. from doing this with other things? It is all the fault of Chief Bozo Roberts who let the govt. argue one day it was a fine & the next it was a tax, even though the law was written as a fine. As Justice Scalia said, “Roberts re-wrote the law for them & then passed it off as Constitutional”. Combine that with the fact he did not let arguments go forward to recuse Komrade Kagan in the clearest example of a conflict of interest you will ever see and Roberts should be disbarred, impeached whatever you call it & then he should be thrown in jail & rot there for 10 years or so! The Supreme Court is a joke & when there is malfeasance like this what recourse is there to real justice?

      Somehow, some way they got to Roberts & he alone at this point is responsible for this train wreck, for if the individual mandate was struck down the law would’ve collapsed for sure considering so many other parts of it are horrible & the people & pols on BOTH sides know it. The DEMs know it too at this point, that is why Obummer has ILLEGALLY delayed some provisions of it. Why does the feckless, ball-less GOP let him get away with it?

    • FreedomFighter

      Prepare accordingly.
      Possible Prepper Investment!Low initial, purchase Pre-Fukusallashima disaster, Pacific and Alaskan canned fish, 20 cases of Alaskan Wild Salmon could be in the near future selling for a 1oz gold a can. If not, you eat well anyways.
      Laus DeoSemper FI

    • smilee

      Your claiming to be an Obama insider now! WE both know that is a joke!!

  • lokiswife

    A Canadian woman told me that Canadians believe that if Obamacare is implemented in the US, Obamacare will be much worse than the Canadian health care program, long waits for limited amounts of care.

    • NC

      LOKISWIFE, What do Canada, England and Mass. have in common? A universal health care plan. What else do they have in common!? They don’t have great crowds in the streets wanting to get rid of it! What do they know that you deny??? That it’s better than you think???
      I went into my small town family Doctors office just yesterday under our present medical system! There were 9 people ahead of me! Waiting lines in Doctors offices in the USA have been the butt of jokes for years! Nothing new!!!
      I remember a cartoon of years ago where a man had entered a doctor’s office where there was a sign that said “TAKE A NUMBER AND HAVE A SEAT’! As he was reaching for his number that was 364 the receptionist was calling out “NUMBER FOUR”!

    • smilee

      The Canadian plan is better but not politically possible in the US at this time, getting what Obamacare provides is like pulling hen;s teeth. The long wait in Canada is a myth, I have many relatives in Canada and they all say that is not true and that will not be the case here either Their quality of care is rated higher than ours before Obamacare and is lower than 37 countries.

    • TheOriginalDaveH
  • Alex

    An earlier version of the Teabaggers—the John Birch Society—railed against the ‘Marxist’ implementation of Medi-Care.

    Medi-Care, one of the most popular government safety net programs ever enacted, is on the books; the John Birch Society is dead, and the ‘baggers are next.

    Ha ha ha…

    • Beverly Golato

      And Medicare is bankrupt and now we are going to put 3mil more on it. You are stupid Alex. Ha ha ha

      • smilee

        It is not bankrupt it is underfunded. Those with wages under 110 thousand pay the tax on 100% of their wages and Romney who had income in 2011 of 26 million was not required to pay a dime and if he it been wages it would only have been on the first 110 thousand. We can easily afford it if the will was there. This is a problem that could easily be solved if there was the will to do so because we can afford it.

        • TheOriginalDaveH

          Sleepee says — “It is not bankrupt it is underfunded”.
          No, Sleepee, when a system can not meet it’s obligations from cash flow, it is BANKRUPT.
          http://wiki.mises.org/wiki/Bankruptcy

          Medicare, like Social Security now, is just another Ponzi Scheme which would result in Jail time if anybody other than the Gang perpetrated it:
          http://mises.org/daily/5658/Is-Social-Security-a-Ponzi-Scheme

          • smilee

            It does not have cash flow as it is underfunded, the same is true for SS. Your a hater of all government so course you will find fault of everything it does even these good thing it does for the country. It will never be your way!!!!!!!.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Eventually, Sleepee, your Gang will run out of other people’s money, and it will be time for a new Gang to take over. Maybe eventually people will get smarter and realize that Government is composed of Non-Producers who are parasitizing the Producers.
            For Limited Government, Free Markets, Individual Freedom, Personal Responsibility, and the PEACE that comes from not trying to cram everybody into the same shoes — Vote Libertarian!
            http://www.lp.org/

          • smilee

            Keep dreaming silly!!!!

          • vicki

            ad hominem

        • Beverly Golato

          Get over the envy of the rich. Romney will never need medicare so why should he support someone else? If everybody was taking responsibility for their lives and stop worrying about what the other makes maybe we wouldn’t be so far in the hole as we are. What did people do before medicare? They paid their bills by working and taking responsibility for their families, now everyone who has older parents expects the government to do it for them.

          • smilee

            Let the rich have a free pass and Romney if he is such a great patriot and caring man as he claims then he would want to, one would think. You know nothing of math which does not support taking responsibility when opportunity has been squashed with low wages and higher costs.so even responsible people cannot be responsible as it is beyond many of them. Your greedy ways prevent you from seeing the reality of the world we live in today. Have not you not seen the wealth going only to the rich for over thirty years when the generation before that had a level playing field which no longer exists.. How far would you be able to swim if your hands were tied behind your back, you would probably drowned and that is the fate of so many today which did not exist when I was young

          • Beverly Golato

            Smilee, non of what you said makes any sense. Seeing how you have no idea what my “ways” are, as you say, you have no idea if I am greedy or not or whether I know any thing about math or not so stop judging people because they do not agree with you. Romney gives away more of his money then you will ever earn in a life time and guess where his money comes from, he earned it. Is that such a foreign word to you? Take a look at how much he paid to charity compared to Obama, you can get the tax return from Harry Reed who got it illegally from the IRS in the last poor excuse for an election/

          • smilee

            I judged you on what you said, your words made you greedy and your math does not add up so it is either you are lying or do not know the correct math. Charity is good but not paying your fair of share of taxes is not. It is questionable if he earned it or not, special laws for the rich make them a lot of money which they never earned, all his income is categorized as unearned income for tax purposes in 2011 and he did nothing to earn it his money made it not him. I worked for almost every dime I made and paid SS tax on 100% of my income except in two years where I exceeded the limit.This is not about charity it is about supporting your government or trying to get out of it.

          • Nadzieja Batki

            smilee, how is Beverly Golato “greedy” when she expects people to pay their own way in life. She didn’t bring you into the world so how is she responsible for your maintenance? Before you throw words around that your handlers suggested, look up what they mean.

          • smilee

            People who have no opportunity to make enough money to pay their own way and those people who can add and subtract know this . The answer is laws that level the opportunity field make it easier for more people to get in unions by passing laws that takes the harassment and fear out of joining a union. This is around a third of the population and if you are fortunate to make enough money to pay taxes and say screw you to those who can’t that is greedy. That is why they passed all these welfare programs since 1986 when Reagan signed the law creating the wage subsidy “earned income credit” bill and since then many welfare’s were added to subsidize workers in many ways from child care, housing subsidies ete ete which we had never had to do before that and that is is bad but is necessary especially if we are at the same time handicapping union organizing which could and did at one time eliminate the need for many of these welfare’s. Under the circumstances it is greedy to force people to starve and be homeless which would b the case without welfare and if you advocate contributing to that you are being greedy. I have no idea what you mean by handlers as I never met one.

        • Nadzieja Batki

          So where is the money coming from? Bankrupt means no money, underfunded means no money.

    • Stuart Shepherd

      You ARE pretty stupid Alex. The first health care plan was started by DOCTORS, not the government, in a free market attempt to increase their business toward the end of the Great depression- they offered group hospitalization plans to Texas schools (teachers). Free market solutions would have kept costs down and quality up. Of course Medicare is popular when you’re spending other people’s money, for the most part! AND there has always been “gap” insurance for pre-existing conditions- I used to sell it! It’s just a hard reality of life, but not as hard as bankruptcy (!), that actuarily you sometimes have to pay more for certain types of insurance, but that’s what insurance is based on!! Why should I have to pay for something for somebody else and why should they have to pay for me? It’s an extremely simple concept. In a free system, trust me there will be many competitors for people with “pre-existing conditions”- all except the condition of being unwilling and/or unable to pay for your own healthcare!!!

    • Vigilant

      “At bottom, Obamacare is doomed to failure. The money simply does not exist in order to cover the cost. The math does not add up. Period.”

      Rome is burning and Nero (Alex) laughs.

      • smilee

        It does too go back to school for a math refresher!!

        • Vigilant

          “There are only two races on this planet-the intelligent and the stupid.”
          -John Fowles

          Smilee obviously belongs to the latter race.

          P.S. Go back to school for a basic English course; yours is atrocious.

    • rivahmitch

      Really, Alex? I suspect that more of us are combat vets locked and loaded and loyal to our oath to the Constitution than your little cabal can field. Come ahead;-) Semper Fi!

    • Don 2

      Ha-ha-ha…..no guns for you simple one. Make sure you take your anti-depression meds Alex.

    • red neck

      Alex… What is going on with your continued RACIST rants???
      I thought that you liberal / progressive dead-beats were more flexible than that?

      • smilee

        What does his post have to do with race???? Are you loony tunes???

    • Cliffystones

      “government safety net”I

      Looks like Alex just invented another oxymoron.

    • Frank Kahn

      An earlier version of the democrats, the KKK, railed against equal rights. Guess who is dead there.

      • KG

        Are you ignorant or just stupid?

        I would say the latter, but the former fits as well.

        • Frank Kahn

          I am stumped. Ignorant of what? The KKK was born of the southern democrats, that is a fact. As far as it being dead, maybe not but it is not lauded as it used to be.

          So KG, what are you ignorant of? Don’t answer, they don’t have the bandwidth to carry that big of a blog posting.

          • KG

            Do you really think that the Southern Democrat party of 1952 is the same as the Southern Democrat party of 2013? If so, I’ve got a bridge for sale….

  • dan

    Shut it down…didn’t even notice the last time…it’s surprising how little we really need the federal government unless we’re one of the takers.
    Does anyone think MORE illegals could possibly come across the border
    or would anyone miss an alphebet agency messing with them… bullying and intimidating with unneccessary rules and regs and paperwork ?
    What do the Feds do that couldn’t be done better and more efficiently than LOCAL GOVERNMENT except finance terrorists and foreign governments?

  • KG

    I guess Brandon must have had a dead-line and instead of his usually depressive screeds of imminent doom he decided to plagiarize some of his buddies on the interweb – like that lying azzhat Bil Whittle Bil Whittle.

    Unfunded Mandates. That ‘scary’ word invented by Conservatives to show people just how stupid they really are. Isn’t ‘LIFE’ itself and ‘unfunded mandate’? Every morning you wake up you have a decision to make.

    Do I live life?

    Do I go out and do the best I can knowing that I have a whole lifetime in front of me to worry about?

    In the future, I may become sick, i may become broke, I may even have my heart broken. Gee, maybe I should just kill myself now instead of facing that uncertain future.

    LIFE IS AN UNFUNDED MANDATE!!!

    quote: The establishment knows that a financial crisis is upon us, but it wants you to believe that the collapse was caused by “political gridlock,” foreign fiscal schemes or “conservative hubris.” It does not want members of the public to draw any connections between their suffering and the international banking elite behind the greater catastrophe.

    No, our present crisis has been 30+ years in development. The so-called Reagan Revolution of ‘Voodoo economics’ and selling off Americas industrial base to the lowest bidder along with the destruction of organized labor has reduced America to a Fourth World CONservative Distopia where the rich elites of Conservative America has decided to hole-up and take hostages instead of surrendering to common sense.

    • dan

      why stop at Reagan …why not LBJ and the
      War On Poverty/ Great Society…or Roosevelt…
      or Lincoln (the original big government Republican )
      i’m afraid that common sense ship sailed long ago…
      Our government was designed to be in perpetual gridlock
      so that it could DO NO HARM !

      • smilee

        War on poverty was not for most working people today welfare is a way of life for many working people and the majority getting welfare are working people. This never occurred before Reagan who signed the earned income credit law which is a government wage subsidy and no non working person is eligible for it. After the 1995 takeover by the GOP and their welfare reform laws included in it many more welfare’s and put many more working people on welfare for working people things have gone down hill since and created a GOP inspired welfare state and its dependency on welfare for working people. .Today is nothing like the war on poverty or anything before it. This is GOP inspired insanity today.

        • dan

          I take it you voted for Hopey Change and not Ron Paul, then ?

        • TheOriginalDaveH

          Funny, isn’t it Folks, that no matter how many times the Progressives try to “fix” our economy, things just keep getting worse? And they always offer more “fixes” as the cure?

          • smilee

            GOP influence has been high and sometimes in control over the last 35 years and it is since then that things in the economy has gotten worse, we now know trickle down does not trickle down and that was not a progressive idea. Like I have said before the truth is not important to you if it does not fit your bias.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Republicans and Democrats are just opposite sides of the same Progressive coin.
            You can chant for your favorite team, like Sleepee’s handlers want you to, or you can awaken to the reality that both parties are playing you for fools.

    • S.C.Murf

      kg gonna miss your check aren’t you troll. Just like your savior obama full of lies, distractions and hot air. Make that POPPING sound kg

      up the hill
      airborne

      • KG

        If I missed a check so would all of those Iraqi and Afghanistan veterans would be too. If it lasts very long, we could be in for another ‘Bonus Army’ in Washington.

        • Nadzieja Batki

          But that is exactly what you want, Cagey. You and your cronies would move right in and direct the “mob”.

          • KG

            No, I want a Government that works instead of blaming everybody else. However, the Conservatives (Republicans) have become experts at the blame game.

            Who actually wants a mob?
            The Conservative/Republican/religious-right/libertarian/nazi survivalists/preppers who desire nothing less than to kill a human being with their firearm of choice – AR-15.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            More evil commenting from Cagey, who knows darn well that the major purges throughout history came at the hands of Socialists.
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_genocide
            http://www.amazon.com/From-Gulag-Killing-Fields-Repression/dp/1933859490/ref=cm_lmf_tit_3

          • KG

            Unlike the Libertarian Pinochet. He only ‘purged’ the liberals – so THAT was OK. I can see how he earned the Merit of Fascism that Von Misies was so fond of.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Pinochet was not Libertarian, but you ARE Evil, KGB. Are you proud of yourself, you sick puppy?
            This, Folks, is the kind of guy who wants to run your life.

    • Judy Riley

      @KG – If nearly half of Americans are either unemployed, underemployed, on welfare, etc., etc., where do you suppose ob will get the money to fund his nightmare attacks on us?

      • smilee

        Union wages, but we need more in unions to do that, the GOP has worked hard over the last 30 years to destroy union participation thus low wages, more welfare to compensate for the losses and the problems you quote went up at the same rate unions went down. and people now get welfare which they did not before. Before the middle class paid taxes now many. do not and andr working people also can collect welfare in addition to low wages. That is the GOP advocated solution, they really love welfare as it gets the rich off the hook for doing their share by not paying adequate wages and taxes. History of the last 30 years proves it.

        • Frank Kahn

          And Unions are the base of much of the economic woes in this nation.

          • smilee

            12% union never more than 35%, they never had that power they are just your whipping boy as you hate unions whom have a history of doing a lot of good for this country and still are but in a limited a way now!!

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Nor could they ever, since Unionists can only prosper at other people’s expense. If everybody was Union, there would be nobody left to carry them.

          • KG

            Capitalists can only prosper at the cost of the workers since all real value comes from the labor involved. Capatilists steal this “surplus value” through terrible work conditions and low pay.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            If that is true, KGB, why don’t you “valuable” workers just bypass the system and start your own companies? I would approve that.

          • momo

            Taken right out of DAS KAPITAL, you forgot to cite your source KG.

          • Nadzieja Batki

            If the unions were doing so much good then no one would wish them gone. So the opposite is true.

          • smilee

            You have no idea how unions work, the members are the union and if the members are active they can do their job and if they do not then they handicap the union. With small memberships there is a big reduction in money that makes it difficult. The solution for improving the effectiveness of unions are more members as there is strength in numbers.

          • Frank Kahn

            Really? And, all the unfunded, over blown, retirements of union hacks has not caused any problems? A majority of our deficit is attributable to union demands for compensation and retirement. Unions have done nothing good for over 40 years.

          • smilee

            They kept all their members off of welfare by insuring living wages. That is a great accomplishment and I worked with union representation for 40 of the last 50 years and have been retired for ten with a living wage pension so never was on welfare and never will have to be which union representation makes possible You support people getting welfare over living wage jobs that unions insure. You do not think borrowing to pay welfare has anything to with deficits, unions decrease them as living wages provide more revenue for the government eliminating the need to borrow so much. you really are very ignorant.

        • TheOriginalDaveH

          Unionists only gain at everybody else’s expense. When they get higher than market wages, their company must raise its prices, lay off other workers, cut back other workers’ salaries, push other workers to produce more, or give up the business as unprofitable and move to another country where the Gang is smarter and does not kill the Golden Goose.
          http://mises.org/econsense/ch107.asp

    • Frank Kahn

      Wrong on all points, and your Marxism will die the same death here that it has died everywhere else.

      • Bill

        Good analogy, Frank
        The two most prevalent communist societies (Russia and China)
        have failed miserably under communism and are both embracing
        capitalism on a fast track
        We must be the last frontier for the Marxists to sell their wares. And they are doing a good job of it as evidenced by the Marxist posters on this site

    • TheOriginalDaveH

      The Shill KGB spins his tale.

    • NC

      KG, what amazes me is that Brandon is an admitted community organizer and the knuckle draggers don’t even catch it!
      His plan is to organize the “activist’ and preppers into A COMMUNITY where they go door to door and BARTER their butter for the neighbors beans!
      NOW THAT IS ONE REALLY BIG JOB CREATING PLAN! NOT!!
      WHAT A REAL BOOST TO OUR INTERNATION TRADE PROGRAM THAT HIGH SCHOOL PROJECT IS!

      • TheOriginalDaveH

        More NutCase screaming. Yikes, this guy is annoying.

  • Sam

    I believe that obamacare is meant to kill our dollar and gain total control. Obama wants to be a dictator. He is in love with himself and his evil ideology.

    • smilee

      Speculation, Speculation, Speculation, Speculation, Speculation,

      • TheOriginalDaveH

        Conjecture, Conjecture, Conjecture, Conjecture.

    • NC

      SAM, A LOT OF YOUR FELLOW TRUE CONSERVATIVES BELIEVED HE WOULD BE A “ONE AND DONE” PRESIDENT! BUT A LOT OF YOUR FELLOW TRUE CONSERVATIVES BELIEVED THAT HE WOULD BE A DICTATOR BY NOW! THERE SEEMS TO BE A DISCONNECT IN WHAT TRUE CONSERVATIVES “KNOW”!

      • TheOriginalDaveH

        You’re annoying, NutCase, even without your UpperCase text.

        • smilee

          He speaks the truth which you care nothing about!!

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            To the contrary, you Liberal Progressive Harpies wouldn’t be trying so hard to bring me down if I wasn’t waking people up to the reality of the Parasites who call themselves Progressives.

          • Bill

            Smilee,
            If your truth is believing in the Easter Bunny

      • Sam

        Obama isn’t done yet. Look up the Pivens and Cloward strategy. These are two university professors who said that the way to overthrow the system is to overwhelm it with entitlements until it collapses. Then the people will rise up and demand that something be done. Obama will blame the collapse on capitalism and claim that his answer which is communism is the way to go. Only he won’t call it communism. He’ll make it sound real nice.

        • Don 2

          Sam, you’re wasting your breath on these guys. You can’t fix stupid! They’re all for it! You know, they also believe in that ole socialist utopia thing, now that they think that they have the ‘right’ guy to lead them.

          • Sam

            I know. I was just waiting for them to come up with some truth but they never did. I can’t believe how stupid and ignorant the left is. They are proud of it, too.

  • Sam

    I work in the healthcare field. Right now, Medicaid pays only $6 on $100. That means a $500 procedure gets $30. You can see why so many doctors do not take Medicaid. It isn’t worth the paperwork. If obamacare is anything like Medicaid, we can kiss our healthcare system goodbye. It won’t exist in a very short time under obamacare. We will be back to herbs and teas to fix our ills.

    • smilee

      Not quite true. Medicare pays the same for the procedure to all providers in that area and when one doctor charges $!00 and another for the same code number as another charging $225 and hey both received $86 as the Medicare allowed amount it skews the percentage as it mosst likely does for Medicaid.. Medicaid is a state set amount and differs from state to state. Medicaid and Medicare are government run programs all of Obamacare is private insurance with new regulations that go a long way in guaranteed patient coverage’s. Private insurance denial teams will now be servicing their new customers rather than denying payments

      • TheOriginalDaveH

        Surely you don’t expect anybody to take your word for it, Sleepee?
        Do you have any evidence to back up your conjecture?

        • Truthful

          He is a ‘bama mouth piece. Ignore him/her.

          • Nadzieja Batki

            We know that already, Truthful. The idea is to get the STUPID Dems/Progs/Leftists talking so we know what they’re about.

        • smilee

          Everything I said can be verified if you really want the truth. you can find it, (the medicare numbers is my own experience) but you seem never to care about the truth when it is different than your bias

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            If you’re stating the truth, Sleepee, you should have no trouble posting a link to back you up.

          • Don 2

            “The medicare numbers is my own experience.”

            Wow! How can you possibly disagree with those airtight ‘facts?’ And he has the nerve to call others “hot air.” lol

      • KLAUS11

        MEDICAID SHOULD BE ABOLISHED. FIRST IT IS NOT CONSTITUTIONAL AND SECONDLY IT IS 60 + % FRAUDULENT.

        • smilee

          Sure it is constitutional, and statistics show fraud is less than 3%, so your just another source of
          hot air.

    • KG

      The future of healthcare under Conservatives:
      “I’m sorry, son, but I only have enough money to rent this gun and buy two bullets.”

      • Sam

        You don’t know what you are talking about KG. You have diarrhea of the mouth. We won’t have healthcare of any kind when the economy collapses under the weight of entitlements. This is the Pivens and Cloward stragegy that obama is using. He’s friends of these two professors that thought it up.

      • Nadzieja Batki

        Another of your stupid sayings that don’t mean a thing. By the way you are the scaremonger. How will you explain away the failures of O’s promises concerning healthcare? Or will the few extra dead won’t be noticed when care has to be rationed so everyone gets a little bit. Will you and O be telling people that they should be happy that they got a little bit because they might have gotten none.

    • Bill

      Hi Sam,
      Even prior to Obamacare, our current medical system is flawed. It is about drugs for symptoms and therapies instead of cures. Just follow the money

    • Bill

      Hi Sam,
      Even prior to Obamacare, our current medical system is flawed. It is about drugs for symptoms and therapies instead of cures. Just follow the money

      • Sam

        We have the best medical system in the world. That’s why everyone wants to come here for treatment. Yes, we could use improvement and people could be more responsible with their health as well.

      • Nadzieja Batki

        Not necessarily Bill. I notice a bit of bias in your comment. The population is living longer and the diseases in ages past didn’t keep you malingering long. Lifespan of 35 years is nothing to brag about and living past 50 years you were considered ancient. How many children did a woman have to bare to have for at least 2 or 3 to survive. All living has a cost and I would rather have our medical system. But our best and brightest are no longer going into medicine and nursing so we are picking up doctors and nurses from all the rat holes of the world and don’t expect the same care from these. This bunch will be happy to do O’s bidding with Ocare.

  • Jim B

    Obama will go down as the ‘Great Divider and Chief’! Obama, Reed, and their minions had an opportunity to fund the full government, they chose not to, and they chose badly! Granted the House could have gone a number of other directions, but it would not have mattered as the Senate, and Obama, had no intentions of ever “EVER” negotiating to any concession. The House is the peoples, the peoples want the ‘out of control government’ to be stopped, not extended, and not funded for Trillions more off the backs of WORKING American’s. Anyone who is capable of connecting the economic dots can only conclude that this administration has set America on a destructive course. When American’s can no longer earn interest on their ‘fiat currency stock’ in a bank account, in CD’s, in Bonds, it is an indication that the value of the dollar is at ZERO. No more LIES!

    • smilee

      If people had really wanted that they would not have reelected Obama and the democratic senate. but they did so you are lying about what the people want as they have spoken and did not say what you say they said.

      • Frank Kahn

        You are sooooo sick and pathetic. You base your insane lie on a single election. The majority of the entire nation is and has been opposed to the ACA. The majority of the nation disagree with Obama’s policies. The majority of the nation does not trust Obama.

        These are statistics. Obama is hated by the majority of citizens because he has done nothing good for our country.

        • TheOriginalDaveH

          From Rasmussen:
          http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/health_care_law
          “Thirty-six percent (36%) of Likely U.S. Voters believe the government should require every American to buy or obtain health insurance, according to the latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey. Fifty percent (50%) disagree and oppose the so-called individual mandate”

          • smilee

            The voters reelected him and by the vote that counts it contradicts their opinions expressed in the non counting polls. Medicare at one time had similar polls but not today and this will be the same for Obamaare regardless of what you say.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Sleepee, you have no credibility on this board.

          • smilee

            Your opinion which has no credibility at all

          • KG

            High Comedy!!
            ROTFLMAO! BRB! AFK! LTR! OMG!

          • Bill

            KG,
            Beware of the Fnortners

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            What happened, Cagey, are you choking on your steer manure?
            Did you breath in when you were talking?

          • IsThisAmerica

            Yes by massive voter fraud.

          • NC

            Aboriginal, why do Rasmussen reports have a reputation as being a “conservative” poll service! Is it because their polling l policy excludes so many people that do not reach a true broad cross section of citizens?? Sort of like a faux noise “call in” poll where 90% of their viewers are wingnuts!
            I know why I would not repeat one of their polls! They had one candidate wining by a 13% margin and he won by 53%! OOPS! TRIPLE OOPS!!!! Would you pay for that kind of “expert” research??? BUT YOU WOULD REPEAT IT!!!!

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Feel Free, NutCase, to provide a link to a contrary poll.

        • smilee

          This was the single election that approved Obama remaining president and they knew that Obamacare would then be here to stay as they by electing him they gave him veto power over it and other elections have nothing to do with this. Do you really believe if the majority did not trust him they would have reelected him. your absurd, Elections are the only trusted method of approval or disapproval and they approved Obama thus Obamacare This is just your opinion the people said otherwise. It is you who is sick and pathetic not the voters because they did not agree with you.

          • Frank Kahn

            The election was won by pandering to the low information, lazy indigents of the nation. The intelligent people have always opposed Obamacare.

          • smilee

            That is just your opinion and it is as stupid as every thing else you say here, wrong and not true

        • Don 2

          The Limbaugh Theorem: Because this guy(Obama) spends all his time campaigning and raising money for the 2014 elections, instead of running the government, he dis-associates himself from everything in D.C., and claims that he is always fighting against those invisible evil causes of his failure; hence, the low-information voters do not associate all the ills of the country with Obama being the cause of those ills, even though they disapprove of the direction that the country is heading. Basically, the low-information voter does not associate Obama’s policies with the ills of the country. Amazing, isn’t it?

      • TheOriginalDaveH

        62 million people voted for Obama. So less than 20% of the Population is voting how to spend the rest of our money. Don’t you just love “Democracy”?

        • smilee

          SO, voting is a right but you also have the right not to exercise it and when one does not that means they are ok with what the majority that did vote decided for them. Your BS holds no water!!.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            No, they don’t vote because they think it’s a waste of their time. They know that — Heads they lose to Big Government, and Tails Big Government wins.

          • smilee

            Your a mind reader now??? You you are a joke is whaty ou are!!

        • KG

          Well, Von Misies DID have his ‘Merit’ for Fascism. As well as his prodigy Pinochet. That’s why Libertarians are the antithesis of freedom-loving. They are actually “little Mussolinis” .

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Your statement is False, and you know it.
            Like I say, Cagey, you are Evil.
            How many souls did you buy today?

      • Truthful

        We did not elect the thief. The rigged elections made sure he was put in office. Dead dems voting, voting more than one time, just to insure that he would be in office to destroy the country.

        • smilee

          All Bull Schitt, none of it is true but you need a cop out to deny that you really lost the election as accepting that is really is real problem for you

          • Nadzieja Batki

            You must really worshipfully love O and his handlers to lie for them so much.

          • smilee

            He was elected so it is not a lie, but from you this conclusion is understandable as i understand your lack of ability to comprehend the truth.

      • Jim B

        What kind of babble is that?

        • smilee

          It is what really happened is that to difficult for you to understand

      • Nadzieja Batki

        smilee, you don’t know when to keep quiet so that means that you are as deceitful as your democratic senate because when they took their jobs they willfully knew that they were deceitful and planned to manipulate the American people.

        • smilee

          You no mind reader and your nonsensical BS is one big stupid joke!!

  • HueyDude1

    “Socialized medicine is the key stone to the arch of the socialist state.”- Vladimir Lenin

    • Toy Pupanbai

      ‘The Middle Classes? ‘Taxation and inflation will deal with them!’. V.L.

      • HueyDude1

        He called it!

    • Bill

      Good comment, Huey

  • Pseudo

    Just a thought, those over 75 get medications and counseling, so does that mean if a large percentage of these folks start going “postal?” it is acceptable? Now I understand the reason for Department of Homeland (Gestapo) Security, (DHGS) and the gutting of the Second Amendment.

  • Jim B

    It was amazing to me how BHO hid behind Constitutional language during his 10 minute speech yesterday. I guess that’s what he calls engagement, it’s laughable and sad at the same time. This President knows nothing of the Bill of Rights and the Constitution of the United States of America. To think otherwise (mainstream media), and know better, is just un-American! The legacy Fifth Estate is dead!

    • smilee

      Then how do you include all his wins before the SC including Obamacare. He is an expert on the Constitution, and has the resume to prove it you just have hot air

      • Pumpkin Puss

        HAHAHA…..he is an expert alright…an expert on violating it & getting away with it!!!! But, then that’s easy with media as your lapdogs & criticism-proof because you are half-black & the GOP having no guts for not constantly taking him to task on it…the numbers don’t add up for impeachment, but they should’ve still tried to, so as to remind everyone, he is breaking the law over & over…but then again, he has learned well the Chicago-style thug politics that ignores the rules!!

        One illegal ex. order after another, all politically motivated & changing OBOZO-Care illegally as well, going into Libya as well, illegal!!

        • smilee

          Your opinion which you cannot support with any factual evidence!! In effect you are lying!! And you are silly but not funny!!

          Edit

          Reply

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          • Pumpkin Puss

            After months of saying over & over to Hispanics, he cannot unilaterally invoke the DREAM ACT, he saw his poll numbers drop & illegally went ahead and did it anyway:

            http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2013/06/house-votes-to-defund-obamas-illegal-executive-order-for-the-dream-act/

            His ex. order on Welfare Reform, illegally changed Clinton’s welfare law:

            http://blog.heritage.org/2012/07/16/obamas-gutting-of-welfare-reform-is-illegal/

            These are 2 of the more egregious examples, but there are quite a few more!

          • smilee

            This is the spin of the far right propaganda and blogs were the truth rarely exists, what he did was perfectly legal and has been done by presidents all the way back to Washington If all this crap you cite was true do you think he would have gotten reelected?? . The Majority sees through your BS

          • IsThisAmerica

            The low information voters know nothing, care only about one thing, freebies.

          • Pumpkin Puss

            HAHAHAHA!!! You should really do stand-up comedy….when Congress makes a law , only Congress can change it…CAPISH???? You can’t go around just changing essential provisions by yourself because it help your party get elected in 2014, etc…

            “Getting reelected”…..LOL!!!….we live in an age of low info ignoramuses more interested in American Idol than the squashing of their freedoms & liberties! Romney was 100% right when he talked about the 47%!!!

          • Bill

            Smilee,
            And you are silly AND funny

      • TheOriginalDaveH

        Oh Sleepee, you had best get back to your nap. The Supreme Court has rarely ruled against a Federal Law, even when it is so blatantly Unconstitutional as ObamaCare.
        Why would they do that? Duh. Does anybody really expect a member of the Federal Gang to rule against their own Gang?

        • smilee

          Your opinion which you cannot support with any factual evidence. So typical of you.

          • J_in_TX

            Actually Smilee it can be supported with factual evidence and you would know that if you knew anything about the Constitution. There is nothing in the Constitution that allows the Federal Government to force consumers to buy a product. There is nothing in the Constitution that allows the Federal Government to take over an industry that constitutes 1/6th of the national economy. There is nothing in the Constitution that allows the Federal Government to fine or tax someone for not buying a particular product. And, there is nothing in the Constitution that says I, as a hard working taxpayer, have to pay for some lazy, sit on the couch do-nothing’s health insurance.

          • Paunchy McBurger

            There is also nothing in the Constitution that allows a sitting prez to tell a private business to give out a product for free (contraceptives)…although, it is not really free, they will just pass off cost to consumer!

          • smilee

            It is not given free it just has to be included either in the plan or out of it and they cannot charge extra but that does not mean they have to do it for free and they are not. This is regulation under the commerce clause and is constitutional.

          • Paunchy McBurger

            The prez does not have right to dictate to business what they should & shouldn’t do!

          • Nadzieja Batki

            You are Stupid. Where does the money come from? According to you it is OK to steal.

          • smilee

            You really have bad habit of putting words in people’s mouths, No I did not say what you said I said.

          • smilee

            That is the GOP far right rhetoric and not what the Constitution says or the court said about it. So your claim of factual evidence is just a LIE. The law does not force you to buy anything just taxes you if you do not buy insurance so your free to not buy it if that is your preference. Another lie on your part. What industry was taken over?? None, so that is another lie. Government did not take over the insurance companies only regulated them which is allowed under the commence clause of the Constitution. The Constitution does give congress the power to tax for the general welfare, it is in the Constitution, so you told another another lie .So you see there is no factual evidence, absolutely none, to support your lies and that is just another lie of yours.

          • J_in_TX

            Show me smilee where the Constitution allows Congress to tax for the “general welfare”. Forcing the insurance companies to sell insurance to those that can’t pay (taxpayer subsidies) or anyone else (pre-existing conditions, etc.) is not regulation. It is take over. Just because the SC said Obamacare is legal doesn’t make it so. Anyone with any common sense (yes I know I’m excluding you and many of your buddies with that statement) knows it is unConstitutional. The gov’t can not force anyone to buy a product and then fine/tax them if they don’t.

          • IsThisAmerica

            taxation without representation. I agree with you, the government can not legally force us to buy anything. These liberals are the guilty party in the destruction of the United States from their stupidity.

          • smilee

            You will buy insurance or pay the tax regardless what you say and it is all legal under our Constitution which you apparently do not support.

          • IsThisAmerica

            You said it, it is a tax.

          • Nadzieja Batki

            So what you are saying that it is OK for O to be a Tyrant and you will slavishly obey him.

          • smilee

            Article I, Section 8, clause 1. Ins. Companies are not forced to sell to any one but their product they sell has to be within regulations. The subsidy goes to the individual not the insurance company and that is general welfare. Constitutional scholars and the court in your opinion do not know what they are talking about, I hate to break it to you but it is you who does not know what your talking about as they do and they got it right on this one.

          • J_in_TX

            Article I, Section 8, clause 1. The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

            The Congress can lay and collect taxes for the common defense and general welfare of the United States. No where does it say they can tax me or anyone else for refusing to buy a product. No where does it say they can take my tax money and give it to someone who is unwilling to work for a living in the form of food stamps, welfare, gov’t housing, etc. That is for the welfare of some, but not for the general welfare of the United States. The “general welfare” clause has been misused for decades to buy votes for the Democrat party through freebies to those too lazy to support themselves.

            Go crawl back in your hole, watch your hero Obamalamadingdong on teleprompter TV and get tingles down your leg with Chrissie Matthews. We real, working people don’t have time for you liberals that would destroy our great country with your socialism (yes, Obamacare is socialism).

          • smilee

            You only show you do not understand it that is why you are injecting your own definitions not the Constitution or the courts interpretation which gives it the force of law based on this clause and yours is nothing more than hot air.which means nothing.

          • J_in_TX

            Once again smilee, you show you know nothing. The general welfare of the United States does not mean welfare or socialism for you and your liberal buddies. I suggest if you want socialism you try moving to a country that already has it and not try to foist it upon the people of the United States.

          • smilee

            It means general welfare and you can try and inject your own meaning of it but that does not change what it actually says or what the interpretation of the court said which disagrees with your spin. If you do not like the Constitution then it is you that should leave as it is you who is not satisfied with it and the law. TOUGH!!.

          • J_in_TX

            So tell me smilee, where did you get your law degree? Or, are you a Constitutional scholar like your daddy Obama? It means general welfare of the country. Oh well, can’t win an argument with a moron. Like they say, “You can’t fix stupid”.

          • smilee

            You think I’m a lawyer??? I suppose that is a compliment as it acknowledges my intelligence but i suspect your motive was other wise so screw you. Health care is one sixth of the economy so health care is part of the general welfare of the country.and your stupidity to not know that defines your lack of intelligence and the reason for your stupid statements typical coming from morons like you..

          • nc

            J in TX, When the federal government uses taxpayer money to create a better place for it’s citizens that is promoting the general welfare! Exactly what the founders said the Constitution was created to do! Along with other things! It does not require your approval!!!!
            BTW. There is no J in Texas!! I looked it up!!

          • J_in_TX

            Proves my point. You had to look it up to find out there is no J in Texas. Not the brightest bulb in the pack are you? Obamacare does not create a better place for the citizens of the U.S. It creates more taxes for the citizens, forces them to buy a product or pay a fine, depends on me to pay for someone else’s insurance and will further bankrupt an already bankrupt country. Please tell me how that is creating a better place for the citizens. BTW, I see you ducked, in typical libtard fashion, my question about where you received your law degree.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Sleepee, you are so full of it, you ought to be under EPA scrutiny for all the methane gas you are releasing into the environment.
            The second half of Federalist #41, by James Madison, the Father of the US Constitution, is devoted to dispelling the myth that the “General Welfare” clause gives the Federal Government a special Power:
            http://www.thefederalistpapers.org/federalist-papers/federalist-paper-41-general-view-of-the-powers-conferred-by-the-constitution

            The Anti-Federalists knew that evil people like Sleepee would try to subvert the meaning of the Constitution and they fought hard to prevent it from passing, but alas, like today, the people were too apathetic to listen to their warnings:
            http://mises.org/daily/2335

          • smilee

            We have to go by what they actually wrote in the Constitution not what they said about it as that it is binding on us not what they said apart from ite. This was their sales pitch and political, the Constitution is the law and you apparently do not know the difference.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            What they “actually wrote” was an enumerated list of Powers for the Federal Government, and they wasted all that effort if the Government was indeed given the Power to provide for the “General Welfare” which could be construed to cover everything they could possibly do to us.
            The clause “General Welfare” meant solely that the enumerated Powers would have to be exercised for the General Welfare of the States as opposed to picking favorites from among the States.
            The Confederacy knew how the “General Welfare” clause was being misused, so their Constitution, which used the US Constitution as boilerplate, left that clause out:
            http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/csa_csa.asp

          • nc

            Aboriginal. your two favorite things are the Anti-Federalist and Mises and they both have gone the way of the DODO bird! How many 8 tract tape players and push mowers are you stuck with?

          • Nadzieja Batki

            So you are actually telling people that the purpose of the Ocare is to pay for insurance for lazy, sit on the couch do-nothing’s.

          • smilee

            No!! Why is it you are always trying to change the meaning of what I said to something that I did not say, Is what I say beyond your ability to comprehend?? It sure seems that way!!

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Cut her some slack, Sleepee. Your comments are generally incomprehensible, so you can’t blame her for misreading them.

          • smilee

            To simple and biased minds like yours they are!! To intelligent people they are not!!

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Judge Napolitano on the Supreme Court:
            http://mises.org/daily/6531/Judge-Napolitano-on-the-Worst-Supreme-Court-Decisions

            Will the Court Grant Us Freedom?
            http://mises.org/daily/2164
            “But note that the drive to strike down laws is selective. It is quickly applied against states and localities, but rarely against the federal government”.

          • smilee

            He is a farce!! A idiot!! One would expect you to like him!! You really are out of touch with reality!!

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Thank you, Sleepee, for revealing to people what they can expect from the “intelligent” class, the “open-minded” class, the parasitic class of people known as Liberal Progressives.

          • Nadzieja Batki

            Sounds to me that you are just plain envious and malicious of Judge’s accomplishments and smarts.

          • smilee

            He has none he is an idiot so what possibly reason could there be to be envious and the truth however harsh is never then malicious.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Thank you for posting, Sleepee. I spent years trying to wake people up, who I knew personally, to the reality of Liberal Progressives. Now here you Liberal Progressive posters are saving me all that work by showing people what you are really like.
            I can’t thank you enough.

          • Bill

            Smilee,
            You want the facts, You can’t handle the facts

          • smilee

            Coming from someone who does not know the difference from a fact or a hole in the ground, your BS is not to very surprising.

          • Bill

            Try using your spell check, Smelly

          • smilee

            You would not get it either way, too deep for you

          • Nadzieja Batki

            Describing yourself again, smilee.

          • smilee

            NO!!! but these nonsensical remarks are becoming your identity making you look really stupid!!

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Are you looking in your mirror again, and talking to yourself, Sleepee?

      • KLAUS11

        FOR YOUR INFO CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS WAS BLACKMAILED THROUGH THE NSA PROGRAM TO VOTE THE WAY HE DID.
        OBAMA CARE IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL, IT WAS DECLARED CONSTITUTIONAL BECAUSE IT WAS A SUPPOSEDLY A “TAX HIKE”.
        HOWEVER, CONGRESS HAS TO APPROVE ALL TAX INCREASES AND THIS HAS NOT BEEN DONE IN THIS CASE.

        • smilee

          Well the court did not agree with you and Do you really think we are silly enough to believe you are an insider to a blackmail scheme especially one that does not exist. Money has already been appropriated for Obamacare and that is why you can sign up today even though the gov is shut down in many cases.Congress is the only ones who can appropriate money so it has a done this for Obamacare and the GOP now wants it defunded, in other words taken away and that is not going to happen despite your BS

      • Robert Messmer

        Pssst Obama did not represent the governments positions, lawyers did. Besides just because you win don’t mean that you are right. Just that a majority (currently 5) agrees with you–the tyranny of the majority.

        • smilee

          How Stupid a statement, the lawyers represented his administration so they did what he wanted for him. The majority is the binding outcome and your free to agree with it or not but not free to do anything about it.

          • Nadzieja Batki

            What you are saying is that lawyers for O behaved like cats bringing tidbits to Master hoping for a pat on the head.
            O can win and still lose more.

          • smilee

            No!! Why the stupid nonsensical statements

          • Robert Messmer

            Sorry was simply responding to your Stupid statement about all “his” wins. Why is it that only so-called wins does he claim credit for but all of his screw-ups are always someone else’s fault? He hasn’t won a damn thing before the SCOTUS because HE hasn’t been there, someone else did the work.

          • smilee

            Obamacare is the biggest accomplishment since the mid sixties and you cannot deny this was huge even if you do not like it and there is many more and would have been even more if the top priority of the GOP agenda had not been to make him a one term president he could have done much more, of course they failed at that and will fail again with their stupid shutdown for which the american public will blame them as the polls show big time. So the wins before the SC are not his only ones he has had. Just because you do not like what he has done is no reason to deny he has not done anything as the record clearly shows..otherwise.

          • Robert Messmer

            Have never said he has done nothing. I have witnessed (thanks to TV) him inserting himself into matters that were not his jurisdiction, making false statements and trying to stir up racial division. I have heard from media about his furnishing guns to drug cartels. Have seen him declare that he, not Congress, could decide rather or not we would go to war. Then when he was prevented, at least for a while, by the freaking President of Russia from going to war, waiving the law so he could arm international terrorists. And now this latest act of his of shutting down the government when even he had to know that by accepting the one year delay–which by the way, would mean that both the individual AND the business mandate would be implemented at the same time–the mandatory spending portions would roll along any way. So, yes I agree he has done quite enough.

          • smilee

            You do not listen very well do you!! because you sure got it all wrong!!

          • Don 2

            Pretty hard to agree with it when Roberts re-writes it to fit the agenda.

          • smilee

            His agenda was weather it was supported by the Constitution or not and it was and he explains why in the opinion that makes sense. You make no sense what so ever

    • NC

      Jim B, A person with a law degree know nothing of the Constitution” ?Or at least not as much as old JIm,B the conservative!!! Sure thing , Jim!!
      Jim, under our Constitution what obligation does the media have to be Conservative? You DECIDED to be A Conservative! Why can’t they DECIDE TO be liberal or moderate or independent??After all, it is the “free press!” THEY ARE CORPORATIONS AND THE REPUBLICAN CONTROLLED SUPREME COURT HELD THAT THEY ARE “PEOPLE” AND “PEOPLE” HAVE RIGHTS!!

      • TheOriginalDaveH

        NutCase says — “A person with a law degree know nothing of the Constitution?”.
        NutCase is probably correct about this. Obama likely knows exactly what the Constitution says — He just doesn’t care.

      • OntheWrite

        Journalists have a responsibility to report objectively. At least, that is what we were taught as journalism students in college in the 80’s. If they fail to provide that objectivity, then their message is unreliable and they become merely a public relations or advertising tool. Journalists, historically, have been relied upon by the citizenry to be watchdogs for the people in order to protect them and their interests from government and private sector corruption. Journalists used to investigate and cover stories of merit for the benefit of their audience. Currently, mass media is largely controlled by corporate and political support in the form of revenue and/or favors. Journalism has become no better than prostitution without anyone getting a happy ending except the politicians and those who control the purse strings. If journalists insist on asserting their right to freedom of speech, their comments should be treated as such and appear soley in the Op-Ed columns. Otherwise, the only stories they should be presenting are those containing the unvarnished facts and the four W’s and the H devoid of opinion and spin.

        • nc

          on thewrite, let me guess who you want to judge the “objectivity” of a report! You, Sean Hannity ,Charlie Krautface and Michele Malkin ?????

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Argumentum ad hominem.
            What else can we expect from a Liberal Progressive?

      • Bill

        NC,
        It is very similar to Hitler and his propaganda machine

      • Don 2

        NC,

        We would just like the media to be honest. You know, that fourth branch of government…..actually investigating and reporting on government corruption, instead of being cheer leaders for Obama, covering-up for, and ignoring government corruption, and bowing down on one knee and kissing the president’s ring, in order to get a tingle up their leg.

    • Bill

      Hi Jim,
      I thought is was amusing that Obama never mentioned a word about the runaway debt that needs to be controlled. He was mad because his excessive bills were not getting paid.
      In another one of his speeches recently, he referred to our country as a “Constitutional Democracy”. Our founding fathers created a “Constitutional Republic” to avoid a democracy and not have three wolves and one sheep vote on what’s for dinner

    • Nadzieja Batki

      Jim B, it is a mistake to believe that O and his handlers know nothing about our Founding Documents. If they didn’t know them they would not show such finesse in twisting them.

  • red neck

    obama-care = government dependency from the citizens.
    It is not only dependency but loyalty to the government in which is a departure from individual responsibility. As the government gains access to your individual responsibility they will change the rules and impose upon you their wishes. Within a year of it’s implementation the citizens will be a shell of their former selves, sheeple will beg their masters for the crumbs.

  • WHITE WOMEN EVERYWHERE

    Yeah, both sides have betrayed us, & are puppets of the big bankers & dark forces, but the DEMs, enabled & cheered on by the media, are much worse. There is no chance of turning our nation around with them in charge…ZIPPO!!! They are pretty uch Alinsky-ites at this point. Hey, they put forward a man like Obama, a completely empty suit to be prez just because he was black & it will be the same paradigm, only with gender as they will nominate Hillary The Harlot in 2016, even with the blood of Benghazi on her hands!! At least with Repubs., there are Cruz & Rand Paul & Mike Lee & maybe 2 or 3 more who give hope!

    May I remind all that before this horrible boondoggle was shoved through Congress, as several proper parliamentary procedures were violated by the DEMs for it even to come to a vote, Obummer had a meeting with the Repubs to ask for their input & they offered a few things , none more crucial than (1) Tort reform to lower malpractice insurance for doctors & (2) most important of all, the opening up of purchases of insurance across state lines to drive competition & lower premiums, thus lowering the cost of insuring those 30 million without insurance. ALL THESE WERE SHOT DOWN!!! It was just a Dog & Pony Show & media did not really cover it as usual!

    Don’t go blaming, the GOP, The DEMs are in bed with Tort lawyers & OBOZO is in bed with Big Pharma & Big Insurers! CASE CLOSED!!!

    • NC

      White Woman, let’s say your husband was in a terrible accident and was burned over 70% of his body and would never work again! His medical expenses are already $750,000! HIS PROJECTED” UP KEEP” FOR THE REST OF HIS LIFE IS OVER A MILLION> THE OTHER DRIVES INSURANCE IS $500,000 MAX! THEY WILL PAY BUT THE DRIVER IS WORTH MILLIONS BUT DENIES HE IS RESPONSBLE AND WILL PAY NOTHING!
      WHAT DO YOU DO? LET US GUESS! YOU FIND ONE OF THOSE FILTHY SLIMEY TORT LAWYERS WHO MAY TAKE MALPRACTICE CASES ALSO TO TAKE YOUR CASE AND MAKE THINGS “RIGHT”
      FOR YOU!!!
      BTW! TORT LAWYERS DO NOT SET THE DAMAGES IN MAL PRACTICE CASES! A JURY OF YOUR PEERS THAT MAY CONTAIN BE A FEW TRUE CONSERVATIVES SET THE NUMBERS.
      WHEN A BILL CONCERNING TEA PARTY MEMBERS IS ON THE FLOOR, TEA PARTY MEMBERS SHOW UP TO SEE HOW “THEIR” REPRESENTATIVES VOTE! SAME WITH TORT LAWYERS!

      • TheOriginalDaveH

        The name says “Truthful”, but the nonsense example and the UpperCase text tell me it’s NutCase screaming his usual nonsense.

        • IsThisAmerica

          That’s what liberals do best, lie, scream when it does not go their way, and act like babies by sticking their fingers in their ears saying nyah nyah can’t hear you.

      • WHITE WOMEN EVERYWHERE

        You are mixing apples & oranges here. One is a civil case & the other is a mistake by a doctor, what is your crazy point? If I sue a private citizen for his own money, it does not raise medical costs & insurance costs across the board!

        However, there needs to be caps on these outrageous malpractice settlements. It has done wonders in Texas. No one should be getting $80 million, when $500,000 is fair!!

        Let me remind you that Americans are being overcharged & over-radiated because Drs. are afraid of being sued, so to cover their butts, they order all kind of unnecessary tests & procedures!!

        TORT REFORM IS NEEDED!!! CASE CLOSED!!!

        • KG

          Until YOU need to suit someone. In Texas, Doctors were exempted from Malpractice lawsuits. Their malpractice insurance rates went to almost nothing. This was supposed to save Texas money by lowering the tort insurance on Doctors. You know what happened? Texas now has a SURPLUS of doctors – and they are charging the SAME AS BEFORE THEIR INSURANCE DROPPED!!!

          The elimination of Conservatives is needed because they have been ripping-off America for their own gain!!

          • WHITE WOMEN EVRYWHERE

            Care to provide some proof of what you declare?

          • Bill

            White,
            Don’t waste your intelligence trying to argue with KG or NC. There are more productive things you can do with your time.

          • Nadzieja Batki

            W W E, you ask such a thing from Cagey?

          • Nadzieja Batki

            Poor little Cagey, he and his union will not be allowed to be predators so he needs a group to have Dems/Progs/Leftists hate so attention will be diverted so he can continue being a predator.

          • Don 2

            Could say the same thing about you KG. You joined the I.B.E.W. for your own gain…..higher wages…..more benefits…..which in turn rips off Americans who have to pay more for your higher union wages and bigger benefits. Using your own KGB logic, elimination of unions is what is needed.

          • KG

            So you made sure that the job you have now didn’t pay any more than necessary – right?

          • Don 2

            I am a retired department head KG(management). Managers are paid for their worth, not because they are members of a union. I had 5 supervisors who supervised I.B.E.W. members. I know all about you guys.

          • KG

            I know all about YOUS GUYS TOO. Nothing like a nervous ‘Birddog’ running around trying to make everything in “…His Image…” so as to impress the Management with his superior ‘micromangement skills’, eh?

            The Six Stages of a Dysfunctional Project
            1. Enthusiasm
            2. Disillusionment
            3. Panic
            4. Search for the Guilty
            5. Punishment to the Innocent
            6. Praise and Glory to the Non-Participants.

            A ‘guide’ to management.

        • KG

          Is this what your handle refers too?

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=493pL_Vbtnc

          • WHITE WOMEN EVERYWHERE

            No, I’m an Asian Indian man who happens to really dig white women & can’t stand nutty libs like you!

            I’m a grateful & proud citizen of still the greatest nation on earth, even with all the attempts by Pc-Progressive-Libtards like you trying to destroy it!

          • NC

            WHITE WOMEN, WHEN SOMEONE AS SCREWED UP AS YOU FINDS FAULT WITH ME IT IS ENCOURAGING TO KNOW WHAT KIND OF PERSON IS “SUPPORTING” THE OTHER SIDE!!
            PLEASE NAME THE TRUE CONSERVATIVE PRESIDENTS WHO MADE THIS ” STILL THE GREATEST NATION ON EARTH!! AS YOU CALL IT!!
            REMEMBER THEY MUST BE PRESIDENTS WITH NO TAX HIKES ,NO WARS AND NO INCREASE IN THE NATIONAL DEBT OR THEY DON’T QUALIFY AS TRUE CONSERVATIVES BY YOUR OWN STANDARDS!!
            I BET I CAN NAME A COUPLE OF DEMOCRATS YOU WOULD CALL PROGRESSIVE LIBTARDS WHO SERVED ON OUR RISE TO GREATEST NATION!
            I’m WAITING ON YOUR LIST!!

          • WHITE WOMEN EVERYWHERE

            Calvin Coolidge, the most underrated prez ever!!! It was Wilson’s progressive libtard policies that started us down this horrible path! The Fed & income tax & the one world BS League of nations!! Are you going to name Clinton?, whose policies were only successful because he worked with conservatives & even he left Bush with a bad economy on the way our, because internet bubble had burst.

            I know one thing the LOONY TUNES LIBs are killing us more than the GOP, who are not really holding fast to the true conservative policies they espouse as well.

            A smaller federal govt. is the way to go!

          • WHTIE WOMEN EVERYWHERE

            A lot of times these labels get blurred, for example Bush was no conservative & in essence Obama is just the same as Bush, even worse….Look at Clinton he was far more conservative than Bush:

            http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/how-bill-clinton-became-a-republican-hero/

            I like to label myself, “A CONSTITUTIONAL LIBERTARIAN” above all else!

          • nc

            White women, how do you know if your interpretation of the Constitution is the correct one to know what to defend!

        • Robert Messmer

          So when a doctor amputates the wrong leg, you want the government to decide what a leg is worth? Because if the wrong one is amputated then the other one still has to come off, so now you have no legs. Gee since its you and not me, I would say $10,000 is fair. What do you think?

          • WHITE WOMEN EVERYWHERE

            You raise a good point, but I don’t want to leave these things open-ended, where a hangnail gets one 2 million dollars either! I know present system is ludicrous!

          • Nadzieja Batki

            You are an out and out JERK, because hypothetical cases very rarely occur.

          • Robert Messmer

            Well then you are an idiot. This was not a hypothetical case, it actually occurred here in Florida.

            http://articles.latimes.com/1995-04-14/news/mn-54645_1_american-hospital

      • Bill

        Calm down, NC
        Quit yelling

        • independent thinker

          He throws a screaming temper tantrum at the end of most of his posts. Since he claims to be 78 years old he must be reverting to his toddler-hood in his senility..

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Can you imagine what his poor wife, if he has one, must endure?

          • independent thinker

            Good one. ROFL.

        • Nadzieja Batki

          Bill, did you get anything out of NC’s frenzied comment?
          I gather he hates Tea Party people and tort lawyers.

    • Bill

      Good comment, White
      Jesse Ventura uses an analogy that politics is like professional wrestling.
      In the public arena, they put on a good show for the people. Calling each other names and performing a choreographed altercation. But when it is over, they go back to their secret rooms, cut deals and laugh all the way to the bank

      • WHITE WOMEN EVERYWHERE

        Would not doubt it!!

    • Carlos

      You are 100% right. Furthermore, Barry is an “empty suit”, The democratic party and media has covered his butt from day one,

      The man has lied so much, he is starting to believe his own lies.
      The Clintons inaugurated the art of lying, cheating and murder.into the presidency.

      History proves how easy it is for culprits to use the ignorance of people to gain power over their very soul. .

      • WHITE WOMEN EVERYWHERE

        Yeah, all big time pols lie & cheat, etc…it seems, but at least Bill Clinton was a very smart man & whether you agreed with him or not, he was a real leader,a man of substance in that way, who did accomplish some very good things & was actually more of a conservative than Bush#2! He worked at his job & when he was too far left, he went back to the middle & people liked him, too. Obama is not that smart, he is insipid & except for his voice & smooth delivery, a dull guy & he does not care & it shows, he does not lead or work at the job & many people close to him don’t really like him…..Overall, he’s a phony, arrogant, selfish piece of crap in all ways!!! At least Carter cared too & tried to lead, though he had no clue what he was doing!

        Though, I still believe that Clinton should’ve been removed from office for lying under oath, I could never see Clinton going to a fundraiser while Americans were being murdered in Benghazi!

        And Hillary the Harlot is no Bill Clinton either!

  • Chip Murray
  • TheOriginalDaveH

    Once you understand that Government is just a very large Gang, then everything else they do will make sense.
    They care about themselves. They don’t care about you.
    http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/05/beware-the-psychopath-my-son/
    “To say governments were formed to protect the rights of men would be historically incorrect. Almost all governments were formed by ruthless men exerting their will over others through the use of force. Some governments, over time, evolved toward the rule of law, perhaps only because their rulers saw that this would sanction their own continued enjoyment of the wealth that they possessed. In some instances, this evolution involved one or more “revolutions” in which those who were governed were able to better establish the rule of law” — Clifford Thies.
    http://mises.org/daily/3427

    Those people who would like to learn exactly what Clifford is talking about can read this 4-volume set of the History of our Country in the Colonial days:
    http://mises.org/books/conceived1.pdf
    http://mises.org/books/conceived2.pdf
    http://mises.org/books/conceived3.pdf
    http://mises.org/books/conceived4.pdf

  • Agent 99

    Now & Then on O-care, the worst piece of legislation ever foisted on the American people!

    http://nypost.com/2013/09/30/second-thoughts-on-obamacare/

    • Robert Messmer

      Good read! And see there really are good Democrats.

      • The Jousting Jester

        Few & far between…not enough to make a difference…I wonder how the other DEms & Dear Leader will take it out on him?

      • TheOriginalDaveH

        Indeed there are. I’m glad you brought that up, Robert. I think most people, Democrat or Republican, have just not really taken the time to think things through. I think the vast majority of people are good people, but oftentimes just don’t realize what they are doing. Like when they vote for sweet-sounding Government programs, they just don’t realize that what they are doing is forcing others, who don’t want those programs, to pay for them. The best we could do is to get Government out of our Marketplace so that people only pay for those goods and services that they actually desire instead of being Forced to pay for other people’s goods and services.
        If we could shrink Government back to the 5% of GDP that it consumed throughout the 19th century, our country would be awash in Prosperity.

  • vietnamvet1971

    O’ Bozo’s Baby ( law of the Land) should have been aborted since him and his EVIL party like those kind of activities.

    • marciamaria

      Well aren’t you clever with your hateful words?

      • IsThisAmerica

        True words. Obamacare funds abortions.

        • Robert Messmer

          So are you saying that prior to ACA that NO medical insurance policy would pay for an abortion?

          • JeffH

            ” Obamacare funds abortions”
            Comprehention problems?

          • marciamaria

            I say: no one knows what the hell is going on. Not everything you read is true ya know.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Yet you believe the Politicians when they say “We’re the Government and we’re here to help”.

          • JeffH

            It’s pretty obvious that what you say isn’t true either.

          • Robert Messmer

            No, I don’t have comprehension problems but that didn’t answer my question. Perhaps my comment would be more comprehensible to you had I phrased it as, “how is that different than any other policy that was/is available to women who are concerned with reproductive coverage?” But you don’t have to answer because as a male I will never need an abortion and I believe that people should mind there own business. So if the neighbor lady needs/wants an abortion, that is none of my business. Tiny little concept called ‘Personal Responsibility’.

        • marciamaria

          Send proof with link please.

          • TheOriginalDaveH
          • marciamaria

            Regarding the $1.00 premium that goes to abortion coverage…….. “This mandate requires all person’s enrolled in insurance plans that include elective abortion coverage to pay a SEPERATE premium from their OWN POCKETS to fund abortion”. So I guess you could say that it is not covered after all. The article is a little deceiving.

          • marciamaria

            How can this be thumbs down. It’s a quote from the article!!! LOL

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            You got my thumbs down because you didn’t understand what that sentence was saying.

          • marciamaria

            I’m pretty sure that it is saying….if you think it is possible that you may opt for an abortion, soon, or in the future, that you pay a separate premium so that it does not come out of other tax payers funds.

          • marciamaria

            I’m pretty sure that it is saying….if you think it is possible that you may opt for an abortion, soon, or in the future, that you pay a separate premium so that it does not come out of other tax payers funds.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            No, Marcia, it does not say that. Read it carefully. That would be great if it did say that. But as you might imagine, if people could just opt out of the things they know they won’t need, then it would defeat the whole purpose of insurance — that of pooling risk.
            Also, I might add, the whole concept of insurance was to aid people who suffered unforeseen accidents or health conditions. Pregnancy is hardly unforeseen, being under the complete control of the two parties involved. I know I sure wouldn’t willingly buy into such a plan. Why should I pay for other people’s carelessness?

          • JeffH

            How ObamaCare uses Taxpayer Money to Pay for Abortions

            ObamaCare requires every American to purchase health insurance, it requires every state to establish health insurance exchanges, and it dramatically expands Medicaid. Each of these – private health insurances programs, exchanges, and Medicaid – can, and in some case are required to, provide coverage for abortion. The result is hundreds of millions of dollars being funneled to the abortion industry every year and the greatest expansion of abortion since Roe v. Wade.

            Read more: http://aclj.org/obamacare/how-obamacare-uses-taxpayer-money-pay-abortions

          • marciamaria

            “the greatest expansion of abortion since Roe v. Wade” ?? It’s not like abortions become more “popular” because there is insurance. (If this is true) If you want an abortion, you find a way. You list a document that is 974 pages long. Am I supposed to find the evil part where it says the government is going to fund our abortions? Even Planned Parenthood’s abortion procedures were not previously funded by the government (before the Rupubs closed them all) and they won’t be now. Yes, other procedures were government funded but not abortions. And why is this all of sudden being brought up after almost 5 years of the law being past?

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Popular or not, Marcia, when people expect Free care, they become more “care-less”. That is — Moral Hazard is created. As a result, there are more accidents (if you can call pregnancy an accident) and costs go up. If you are one of those who whined previously about the high cost of Healthcare, what do you think is going to happen when even more patients pile onto the system?

          • HOPE FOR HAPPINESS

            But, Planned Parenthood mixes up the money, so it is the same thing…our taxpayer money funds abortion & not only that with the Mexico City Policy we fund it & promote it in other nations & through UN Population Fund which funds abortions in China. It is a myth that our taxpayer money does not go towards the murder of innocent life in the womb!

          • JeffH

            marciamaria…you wanted proof that Obamacare does, in fact, fund abortion with others money which you got the links to. There is no opt-out for those in the plan who don’t believe, support or want to pay for sombody elses abortion…they are forced by government mandate to pay!

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Read that quote again, Marcia. If a plan includes “elective” (as opposed to non-elective) abortion coverage, then “all person’s” choosing that particular plan must pay the extra premium, not just those who agree with abortions.

          • marciamaria

            Well, I don’t know why someone who doesn’t want to pay for it would choose it as an “elective”. ??? I’m not getting the same message apparently.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            “elective abortion” in the sense of a woman choosing to have an abortion, Marcia.
            http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/elective+abortion

            I’m just guessing but I think non-elective would include such things as being the victim of a rape.

  • Mole Johnson

    Its not about health care …. Its a giant tax grab!

  • KLAUS11

    IT’S NOT A DIVIDE AND CONQUER ONLY, IT IS ABOUT ABSOLUTE PEOPLE CONTROL AND THE ELIMINATION OF THE MIDDLE CLASS.
    ABOLISH THE FED.
    THE GUILLOTINE FOR THE ROTHSCHILDS AND THEIR CRIMINAL ASSOCIATES.
    BUY THE LATEST EDITION OF “WHO IS WHO OF THE ELITE” AND SEE WHO IS EFFING UP YOUR LIFE.

  • Karma

    It,s amazing that you have everything figured out and yet, you are not and have never been the president of the united states. Have you ever thought of running for president? because you know and have all the answers- which means America will be run perfectly. After reading all the articles on here, it is easy to see why other countries are catching up to the US. You guys are doing a very good job of keeping folks in the dark by feeding them ignorant stuff. One does not need any brain to be stupid.

    • KG

      2 Peter 3:5
      King James Version (KJV)
      5 For this they willingly are ignorant of…

      • Bill

        Kg,
        You are an admitted communist but you quote the bible. Isn’t that a conflict of interest

        • KG

          Truth is truth. Besides Jesus was a communist (note small c)

          If anyone would take your coat, let him have your shirt as well. Give to him who begs from you, and do not refuse him who would borrow from you.
          — Matthew 5:40-42
          Let no one seek his own good, but the good of his neighbor.
          — 1 Corinthians 10:24

          • Bill

            That is classic, KG
            You say that Jesus was a communist. You only say that to give some value to your conflicting views. You have too much time on your hands to make up this fantasy world that you are living in

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            KGB is just a Shill, here to confuse people the best he can, so as to keep them from learning reality and turning on his handlers.

          • Moshe McCarthy

            Nooooooooooooo….Jesus was NO COMMIE, not even close….He advocated going to GOD for everything you need, not other humans or the govt.!!!!! & since He said, :”The Kingdom of God is within you”, He was also implying everything you need you already have within & do not need to seek it outside of you by sucking on Big Nanny’s teats!! Jesus was all about personal responsiblity!

          • Sarah417

            The Lord didn’t say give your coat and shirt to Caesar and let Caesar give it to whomever he deems worthy which in most cases would be his lobbyist.

          • KG

            Romans 13:1-6
            King James Version (KJV)
            13 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
            2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
            3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
            4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
            5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.
            6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God’s ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.

          • Sarah417

            Render unto Caesar that which is his. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. You don’t give it to Caesar and expect him to dole it out. Redistribution of wealth is a fantasy of Marxists. Eventually they run out of other peoples money…Margaret Thacther

        • Sarah417

          It’s called an oxymoron. He is communist but spews the bible.

          • Bill

            Hi Sarah
            He is now becoming a comedian. His latest is that he is saying that Jesus was a communist because he gave things away. He failed to recognize that communists are thieves and murderers which goes against what Jesus taught.
            He just makes things up to fit his arguments but really knows nothing about anything

          • Sarah417

            Agreed.

          • Charlie

            Sarah417 ,,, take it easy on KG ,,, he lives in smogvillle aka Los Angeleees … The oxymoron applies because he is suffering from good oxygen which has turned him into a Moron ………………………………………..

          • Sarah417

            Charlie. LOL

    • Bill

      Karma,
      It is apparent that you have been brainwashed by the propaganda media and you really do not have a clue.
      “Life is tough and it is even tougher if you are stupid”

    • IsThisAmerica

      Go find a liberal posting page that cares what you have to say.

    • TheOriginalDaveH

      Nobody, not even Brandon who is a very intelligent man, knows what’s best for everybody’s life. Only we know what’s best for us, and only we as individuals can make those choices properly. Government consumes Wealth, and then after the inevitable depletion of the Wealth, people like Karma blame everybody but the true destroyers of that Wealth — Big Government.

    • Nadzieja Batki

      But you have not never been president either and probably will never be but it appears that you are indulging in stupidity because it is your ideology of the Dems/Progs/Leftists which created the problems in the country. Bub, you are on the wrong site if you want to blame your fellow ideologues. Solutions are offered you just don’t want to take them, you will owe the country more than a hollow apology.

    • Brandon Smith

      @add44e55834ac945e0f35071c77c15e6:disqus

      It doesn’t take a genius to become president. All you have to do is sell your soul to the international banks, do as your told, lie incessantly, and continuously centralize power into fewer and fewer hands while debasing the liberties of common people. A monkey could do the job.

      Personally, I have a conscience that prevents me from pursuing such a career, but perhaps there is hope for you…

      • TheOriginalDaveH

        Well said.

  • liz

    DON’T forget, O’Bama said he would transform America, uninformed voters believed it would be for the better. If people had looked at his associates they would have understood why you should NOT VOTE FOR HIM. But unfortunately they did not, like one little O’Bama admirer said to me before he was elected the first time, I asked her if she had researched him, she said no “he wouldn’t lie to us”, Well I guess she was right, he said he would transform America, I hope she is happy and has the money to pay for her premiums as well as her doctor visits until her deductible is met.

    • marciamaria

      Yeah well….. my insurance only covers 80%. What is that about like the “gold” tier? So, do you disagree that paying 200 for a 1,000 procedure is better than paying full price? Nobody ever said it was FREE! I’m sure the O’Bama admirer will be quite pleased with her premium. Especially, since all premiums are based on your income.

  • Bill

    Obamacare is not about providing quality healthcare at an affordable price. It is about taxation, control and power. It is a scam, do not fall for it

  • IsThisAmerica

    Don’t sign up for it. If you do, you release all of your personal information to con artists, and or illegals that will stop at nothing and go for ID theft.

  • allyson

    we don’t NEED obamacare to divide the country–the gaping abyss between economic classes has done that very effectively…

    • KG

      Just another reason why Labor Unions are so important.

      • TheOriginalDaveH

        You mean to further impoverish our country, so that even fewer people can be successful?

        • rbrooks

          your current low wage policy has already insured that fewer people will ever obtain any worthwhile standard of living. the gap between the rich and the rest, and the numbers added to the poor, will only increase under your plan comrade frank.

          the only possible way you ever see your self being ‘successful’, is by bringing back slave labor.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            What do you mean “bringing back slave labor”, Flashman?
            You Liberal Progressives brought that back over 100 years ago.

            Flashman says — “your current low wage policy has already insured that fewer people will ever obtain any worthwhile standard of living”.
            I have no wage policy, Flashman. The extant wages are purely the result of 100 years of Progressive meddling with the economy. I like how you guys screw things up, then blame them on Capitalism which has been in rare supply for those 100 years. But more and more people are waking up, and some day they will put you non-productive Liberal Progressives back to doing real work.

          • KG

            quote: But more and more people are waking up, and some day they will put you non-productive Liberal Progressives back to doing real work.

            Sound’s like the Nazis talking about the Jews?

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            No, Cagey. I would not Force anybody to do anything. I also would not Force anybody to pay for somebody else’s lunch.

          • rbrooks

            got any real proof that progressives, or myself, are non-productive. right. you just keep blowing hot air and trying to sell it as facts.

            you can stop trying to distance yourself from your own wage policy’s.

            i am curious why you have not moved to one of the many country’s that have very little govt and no wage policy’s.

            you could work for exactly what you are worth.

            in the real world, comrade frank, you can’t buy lunch.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Flashman says — “got any real proof that progressives, or myself, are non-productive”.
            I don’t need proof, Flashman, because it is intuitively obvious that Productive people wouldn’t advocate policies that Liberal Progressives advocate.

            Flashman says — “in the real world, comrade frank, you can’t buy lunch”.
            To the contrary, Flashman, I have never required the Force of Government to live a good life. Because, I gave a day’s work for a day’s pay.

          • rbrooks

            well, as long as you are willing to admit you are full of it and just spinning yarns.

            your still working? must be the low age you are being paid.

    • TheOriginalDaveH

      There is only one way to cure that condition — Get Government out of our Marketplace. Without their regulations, subsidies, price controls, tariffs, quotas, and other protective devices, their Crony Capitalists would have to compete fairly against the Market Capitalists. Anybody with a mind to be successful could then be successful. There would be no Crony Politicians able to block your path to success.
      Read this to learn how we could get our country back:
      http://library.mises.org/books/Kel%20Kelly/The%20Case%20for%20Legalizing%20Capitalism.pdf

  • Aol

    I saw Obuma’s address on TV and from beginning to end he lied to the people, said it was only for americans but in essince it is mainly for votes because it covers all illegals also , I have noticed the all the politicians are exempt from this atrocious medical coverage, if it is so good why are they exempt?? Also if they cut wages to Govt. emplyees , the politicians in office should be first to loose their pay and pensions.
    Smiley

  • rbrooks

    current federal deficit is about 750 billion. half of it’s historic high. it is decreasing with each passing year.

    why are you only including the top 400 earners in your tax calculations?

    this is not socialized health care. it would be a much better plan if it was.

    we are losing foreign investments. we are also losing domestic investors. there is a fear that we will not pay. and many have found better returns in other markets.

    you are as guilty of fear propaganda as the other side is.

    • TheOriginalDaveH

      The Federal Deficit in 2012 (last full year) was $1.089 Trillion.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_United_States_federal_budget
      Federal Spending in 2012 was $3.538 trillion, the largest in our country’s history.

    • David M.

      Hey, rbrooks,

      Apparently, you didn’t read the full article. The author points out that entitlements are not included in official deficit numbers. If you include entitlements, the deficit expands to $5 trillion per year.

      • rbrooks

        he does not include revenue derived from those entitlements either.

        • TheOriginalDaveH

          And you know that how?

        • David M.

          What revenue? If by revenue you mean “profit”, then you must not realize that no government generates profit. By its very nature, government is a debt machine. The country is operating AT A LOSS. What about this do you not understand?

    • Robert Messmer

      You are right that as of the end of August the deficit (at least that part that they have on the books) was about 750 billion. Of course some of the decrease is due to Sequestration which started in March. You remember Sequestration, don’t you? How Obama said that it would be a terrible nightmare and just destroy the economy. Now that it is reducing the deficit and actually might bring it in under a Trillion dollars, its starting to look pretty good. Wouldn’t surprize me any if in his next speech Obama doesn’t talk glowingly how he planned it that way while he was still in school.

      Maybe because if he only included the bottom 400 earners in the tax calculations it would help even less.

  • laura merrone

    Its got to fall apart before we can rebuild…Let it all crumble away and collapse and maybe then those elected officials will finally listen to the people.

  • THE PIGMAN

    The following is a very overlooked thing in O-care & just shows how devious these Psychpath Lib SOBs are!! They are so desperate to say they were right, they would not have one verify their income to qualify!! Can you imagine how much fraud there would’ve been & still might be?. Can you imagine creating a bill & then needing another bill to make sure it is enforced properly ALLTHOSE WHO VOTED FOR THIS BILL & ALL WHO DID NOT DO ALL THEY COULD TO STOP IT SHOULD ALL ROT IN HELL!!!!!!!!!!!

  • THE PIGMAN

    The following (see below) is a very overlooked thing in O-care & just shows how devious these Psychpath Lib SOBs are!! They are so desperate to say they were right, they would not have one verify their income to qualify!! Can you imagine how much fraud there would’ve been & still might be?. Can you imagine creating a bill & then needing another bill to make sure it is enforced properly ALLTHOSE WHO VOTED FOR THIS BILL & ALL WHO DID NOT DO ALL THEY COULD TO STOP IT SHOULD ALL ROT IN HELL!!!!!!!!!!!

    http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/09/16/House-Passes-Bill-To-Require-Income-Verification-For-Obamacare-Benefits

  • Sarah417

    Obamacare is dependent on the YOUNG AND HEALTHY to pay. A good way to disable this monstrosity is just DO NOT SIGN UP for exchanges. If the young and healthy don’t pay, it goes away on it’s own accord. they can’t put us all in jail.

    • vicki

      They don’t plan to put us all in jail. Just enough to show they are serious.

      • Robert Messmer

        Is there a provision for jail time? Thought that the penalty was a TAX. Being a tax and enforced by IRS they could garnish your wages, freeze your bank accounts, seize your assets.

  • Bobbi

    The president congress don’ t sign up for the ACA for the same reason they don’t sign up for food stamps,assisted rent, fuel assistance . They make too much money. Open your eyes and smell the coffee. It smells better than your heads up your asses

    • Robert Messmer

      Well you are almost right. They do make way too much money which is why it is even more galling that they got themselves exempted from paying and the taxpayers have the privilege of paying 75% of THEIR costs for coverage. Better get yourself a fresh cup of that coffee.

  • Robbie

    From all that I have read the Affordable Health Care Act is way to complicated. I suspect too many compromised had to be put in place due the the right wing opposition to universal health care. Up here in Canada we have a rather simple system.Health care services such as doctors, nurses, hospitals are paid for out of our graduated income tax fund and some other sources. When patients need a doctor’s visit or blood tests or an operation or any medical service you simply go to your doctor or to the hospital. There are absolutely no charges to patients for any necessary medical service. We kind of think of medical care as we do the fire dept. If your house catches fire or you are in a car wreck the firefighters arrive and look after everything. Firefighters and their equipments are municipal services paid for by taxpayers. No one in Canada ever worries about going bankrupt due to illness. It’s very sweet. We call it universal health care but I suppose some Americans would call it socialism. Whatever! It’s a great system. Oh, there is a user fee if you take an ambulance: $45. Actually Israel has an even better system: they cover all medical as we do but also dental for children (I don’t know the upper age).Mitt Romney even praised Israel’s medical system during the election when he was over there raising money. Seems that dope didn’t even know Israel had socialized medicine!!!

    • MAGGIE MUCKSTEIN

      The problem with America is that the federal govt. is way too big & bloated to manage programs correctly. There is too much fraud & duplication, it is truly a BEAST! The great James L. Buckley, brother or William F. Buckley, predicted this in the early 1970’s & said at some point it will grow way too big & have to be cut down, or the nation would be squashed by it!

      Buckley was one of few men in history to hold high positions in all 3 branches of govt.

    • Carlos

      Robbie where does the money come from to afford your generous Healthcare?

      I know of one case where a person had to wait almost a year for medical attention and in the meantime died, This is absolutely true, I know the persons sister.

      And, also why do so many of your fellow citizens come to the U.S. for major surgery?
      Try that propaganda about universal Healthcare somewhere else.
      We did have the best healthcare in the world until the socialist using Obamacare as bait to convince the welfare crowd they would get something more for free.

      There’s nothing free in this world except the air we breath and the enviornmentalist are trying to corner that, They have a plan called Cap and Trade, another taxation,

      Sorry, I don’t want your socialism

      Our so called president has been so mislead by the bleeding hearts, his intelligence is beyond reach, he now believes it and nothing could be further from the truth. (he is nothing more than a third world Muslim con man)

      • Karolyn

        Why do so many people from here go to other countries for major surgery? Because it costs half the price. Saw a piece on some companies paying their employees’ expenses to travel and get necessary surgeries – and then giving the employees a bonus due to the cost savings, plus they get a vacation. One particular employee went for weight loss surgery.

        http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/american-companies-send-workers-surgery-vacations-20426170

        • TheOriginalDaveH
          • Robbie

            For one thing 35% of health care dollars do not go towards health care. That amount goes to insurance company share holders. One third is A LOT.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Sources, Robbie?
            Regardless of that, the Insurance industry is definitely classed as Crony Capitalists. They have been getting favorable privileges from Government ever since I can remember.
            My solution to that? I self insure. I also take very good care of myself. If something happens to me that I can’t afford, I’ll take the hit and go to my grave content with the knowledge that I never rode on other people’s unwilling shoulders.

          • Robbie

            Take care of yourself all you like. No one wants to get sick and I can assure you that your day will come as it does to all of us. It did for me and I was so thankful for all those who had contributed to our health care system for looking after my treatments just as I had been happy all my life to contribute to the well being of others. But you don’t get that do you? If you get really ill you’re just going to take the hit and kick off! By the way do you have home insurance or car insurance?

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            You may be thankful, Robbie, but all the people who died in waiting lines, who would otherwise have been saved if we had Free Markets in Healthcare, would not be.
            Whether I have insurance, or not, is a non-sequitur, Robbie.

          • TheOriginalDaveH
          • Sook Young

            I understand what you are saying Dave, but what about the people who lie about pre-existing conditions or those who refuse to pay their bills? We have an office here at Elkhart General that can help you with your bill. They put the information on line and charities pay some or all of your bill. This would really help out. If your hospital doesn’t have one, then you can go to a consumer credit place. They will work with the hospital or doctor and set up a payment plan you can afford. Being broke is no excuse. Can our healthcare system do better? Yes, but do not force people to join a program (which our government is not allowed to do) or penalize them for not taking the coverage (which our government also cannot do by our Constitution). Here is some information about Obama’s plan that you seem not to know.
            http://www.caintv.com/obamacare-overview-explaining/
            http://www.joeforamerica.com/2013/09/obamacare-free-must-good-thing/
            http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/obamacare-website-quietly-deletes-reference-free-health-care_757348.html
            http://www.westernjournalism.com/massive-new-taxes-hidden-obamacare/
            http://www.westernjournalism.com/obamacare-just-fleeced-childrens-hospital/
            If you do not believe me or my sources, I understand. It is hard to believe the truth at times. Thank you and God Bless America.
            Sook Young
            “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.”
            Genesis 1:1

          • Robbie

            Golly, you could be right. Now I realize why – when I had my recent heart attack and was operated on within 20 minutes of arrival – I got such amazing treatment at our local hospital. Now I know what all those bodies were lying on the waiting room floor, limbs strewn about, screaming babies who had not been fed in hours, people crawling down hallways in search of a drop of water or crust of bread, elderly people collapsing on the sidewalk leading up to the hospital. Now, thanks to your long distance insight I can now understand what was going on. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Your personal experience is worth how much in a coffee shop, Robbie?
            I must say that even though I’ve never worshiped teachers by any means, I am still surprised by how ignorant so many of them are, present company included.

          • Robbie

            You’re the anti-intellectual type who never got too far in school.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            I’ve got two 4-year degrees, and a year of Computer Science.
            I could beat you in any GRE or other comprehensive exam.
            I am the type who knows enough to shut you Liberal Progressive Trolls down consistently.

          • Robbie

            I beg to differ.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Robbie says — “I was so thankful for all those who had contributed to our health care system for looking after my treatments just as I had been happy all my life to contribute to the well being of others”.
            So your idea of “thankful” is to Force others to contribute to the system of your choice? Please don’t be thankful to me, Robbie, I can live without your thanks. Would it be okay for you when a person robs you at gun-point and then afterwards tells you how thankful he is for your money?
            If you want economies of scale, form a mutual association or some other such entity where you can pool your money with other like-minded people. But keep your hands out of my pocket, because I don’t want to join.
            Your miserable existence doesn’t justify your helping yourself to my money against my will. When you do, you are just a self-deluded thief.

          • Robbie

            You continue in persisting in leaving out half the equation. I am thankful for the wonderful medical care Canada provides with tax dollars. I thank the other tax payers for the indirect help they have given me and I am more than willing to contribute which will or already has helped THEM when they need medical care. Think of health insurance as health insurance. Do you have home insurance? I bet you do. Now why would that be. Does having home insurance make you a thief? I don’t think so.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Your thanks are insincere, Robbie. If you truly were thankful, you wouldn’t even think of Forcing people to join your scam.
            You would get together with voluntary people and form your own economies of scale without being creepy and Forcing unwilling people to join.

            Robbie says — “Does having home insurance make you a thief?”.
            Another non-sequitur. I’m starting to think, Robbie, that your teaching must have been Special Ed. But I’m not even sure I would want you to teach my mentally disabled kid (if I had one).
            Newsflash, Robbie, home insurance is voluntary. No Government (yet) Forces you to buy Home Insurance. And if you and your Proxy Gang did — YES, you would be a thief for that also.

          • Robbie

            Look, the bottom line point is that insurance is a good idea. And, by the way, unless your house is totally paid off you ARE forced to have insurance by the bank.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Insurance is a good idea in your mind, not mine. Catastrophic insurance makes sense if you’re risk averse, but insurance in and of itself is just a wager that you will suffer misfortune. If you don’t suffer misfortune, you lose. You are making a bet, against the odds, that you will suffer misfortune. That’s the only way you can win — If you can call that winning.
            I would rather bet, with the odds, that I won’t suffer misfortune. And if I do, I would not think for a moment of burdening other people with my misfortune.
            That is especially true with something so controllable as bad health. The people who live healthy lives are being Forced, against their wills to pay for those who don’t give a damn about their health until something actually happens to them.
            No matter how you paint it, Robbie, you are Forcing your way on other people, like a rapist Forces his way on his victims.

          • Robbie

            So you figure you will never need major health care. Best of luck to you.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            No, I don’t figure that. What I figure is that we are all going to die some day, and when my time comes, I will know that I never took advantage of another unwilling person. I will die knowing that I lived with integrity. You won’t.

          • Robbie

            I will die knowing that I was an integral part of my nation. I was willing to help any and all of my fellow citizens in need and joyful that I would be helped by others who felt the same. Those others being my fellow Canadians. I will also die knowing – and know it now – that my country was created and built up by others and that I have benefited by that and I know that my contributions as a teacher and as a businessman and as a real estate owner and as a parent has and will continue to benefit others in my society. We are all interconnected and interdependent. I hardly use our health care system but I live with less anxiety knowing its there when I will need it. Most others use it more than I do but realize it would only be there if all citizens – as we do in Canada – contribute. It’s not about being taken advantage of by others – its about being a part of society where we all take part. As for your “integrity” ,well, you actually have nothing of the sort. You are willing to benefit from all the contributions made by others currently and in the past that made your country great but you are not willing to help those fellow citizens when they have monumental medical expenses that put them in to bankruptcy and ruin. In point of fact you are self beyond words and you rationalize away your cheap behaviour. You are a bloodsucker.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            You just keep telling yourself that, Robbie. Maybe you can actually convince your subconscience that you are being a good man as you Force your way on other people. But I doubt it. You can always turn to the bottle, though, to assuage your guilt, like most hypocrites must do.

          • Robbie

            Nope, my feelings as expressed above are genuine and most comforting. Overall Canada is a capitalistic country. Why I am even a businessman now in my second life. AND I own 5 rental properties – I’m a land lord with some 35 tenants who pay me rent. That’s capitalism isn’t it? But we view health care as a right not a privilege reserved for the rich or for those who got lucky in Vegas. We do unto others as we would have them do unto us. As an America you should learn that not every country in the world is made up of selfish bloodthirsty self serving individuals who are of the opinion that whatever they have they got totally on their own without input from ANYONE. I remember at the conclusion of an argument with an American relative of mine I was told “I don’t give a [expletive deleted] about anyone else except myself”! I never found out if that included his wife and 4 kids but, boy, can you imagine going through life with that attitude about others? I sure can’t.

          • marciamaria

            Hmmmm. We ALL contribute to social security. But we ALL don’t get to use it. Same thing Robbie is saying about the pool for healthcare.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Non Sequitur. Two wrongs don’t make a right, Marcia.
            Social Security was morally bankrupt from the get-go.
            You don’t tell somebody to hand over their money because you know better how to invest it than they do. It’s none of your business. And on top of that immorality, the funds that we put into Social Security were robbed decades ago and put into IOUs from the Federal Government.
            Social Security is worse than a Ponzi Scheme, because at least with a Ponzi Scheme you have a choice whether to buy into it or not:
            http://mises.org/daily/5658/Is-Social-Security-a-Ponzi-Scheme
            The fact that ignoramuses like you, Marcia, are deciding how to invest MY money is just sickening.
            It’s one thing to be ignorant, but to be purposely ignorant, like most of you Liberal Progressives are, is just disgusting.
            You could change that, if you chose to break the mold.
            Start here (who am I kidding? A Liberal Progressive learn?):
            http://library.mises.org/books/Kel%20Kelly/The%20Case%20for%20Legalizing%20Capitalism.pdf

          • marciamaria

            First, I was using social security as an analogy. Not saying that Social Security is moral and I know all your lecturing about it being robbed years ago. Just take a chill pill.
            Where do you get off saying that I am deciding how you invest your money? I didn’t create social security or Obama care or anything else. The fact remains Obamacare or Blue Cross/Blue Shield, it doesn’t matter, all work the same as social security, home insurance, car insurance ect. It is all pooled and everybody uses from the same pot of money. Do you know how to communicate without name calling ? It’s so immature.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Did you not call me “dummy” earlier? And “sick and mean”? And [Expletive deleted]?
            Bee-Otch.

      • marciamaria

        I do. I would love to not have to stress about the cost of taking care of myself and loved ones. America is so self-righteous.

        • TheOriginalDaveH

          Sure, we all would. But unfortunately it doesn’t work that way. Extras that you get cost somebody else. If that wasn’t true, you wouldn’t need the Force of Government to accomplish your goals.
          Marcia says — “America is so self-righteous”.
          Would you accept that excuse from the man who robs you at gunpoint, Marcia?

          • marciamaria

            Yes, it does work that way. Have you not heard that we are the only country without universal healthcare? Do you just flat not believe what Robbie has been saying? YES, it does work that way. But like I said, America…….

          • marciamaria

            Over and out…….. goodnight.

          • marciamaria

            P.S. I don’t consider a trip to the emergency room an “extra”.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Anything that you haven’t paid for, Marcia, is an “extra”.

          • marciamaria

            Jesus Original Dummy…. that’s what the premiums are for. It’s not EXTRA!!!!!!!!!!

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Good Grief, Marcia, I would say you are as dumb as dirt, but that would be an insult to dirt.
            Anything you get more than what you paid for is an “extra”. And somebody else has to pay for that.

        • Nadzieja Batki

          Thank you God, that America is becoming self-righteous and finally recognizing what parasites look like.

          • marciamaria

            Not becoming…. we are already self righteous. Why do you think everyone that hates Obama care is so ugly about it. And greedy to boot?

        • Nadzieja Batki

          Thank God America is finally becoming self-righteous and recognizing what parasites look and sound like.

      • Robbie

        I believe your hatred of the smart black guy in the White House is clouding your judgement.

        • TheOriginalDaveH

          Your love of other people’s money is clouding yours, Robbie.

          • marciamaria

            Actually, it’s his money. Taken from his income tax.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Marcia,
            If it was his money, he would pay it directly and voluntarily in Free Markets.
            Don’t kid yourself.

          • marciamaria

            It’s his money just like it will be our money when we pay our insurance premium.

          • Nadzieja Batki

            From the “sound” of you, you and yours will be taking out a lot more than you put in.
            If you want a learning experience go to any city emergency room and see how much some of the people put in and how much they get out. But I doubt very much that you are capable of learning.

          • marciamaria

            Why do you have to be such an [expletive deleted] My employer pays over 500.00 per month. Is that f…..g good enough for you? Plus my co-pay, plus my 20% not covered.

          • Nadzieja Batki

            From what Robbie has taken is far more than he contributes in income taxes.
            You are rather STUPID. Where does the bureaucracy get its money to cover the wages of clerks and administrators of this free Canadian healthcare?

          • marciamaria

            Not everyone uses the money on the same day…. duh.
            When my employer gives over 600.00 per month and then I go to the doctor for say a pap smear or the flu etc. 2 or three times a year, the cost is no where near what me and my employer pay into the funds.

          • marciamaria

            Excuse me, my employer pays over 600.00 per month into the system. You can’t tell me that I have no right to use my insurance as needed. Not to mention my co-pays, deductibles and the other 20% that is not covered! If you can get it through your thick head, most people never use what they pay in. This conversation ends here. I noticed my other post was deleted because I called you an a##hole, but it’s okay for you to call me “stupid”.

          • Robbie

            Not really. I’m relatively wealthy but I certainly don’t mind contributing to the general welfare. Not to mention the fact that my recent heart attack, 5 days in hospital, dozens and dozens of tests of all kinds and probably two dozen doctor office visits have cost me – not including my income tax – absolutely zero.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Good for you, Robbie (if it’s true). But that gives you no right to share other people’s money.

          • Robbie

            Of course it does. All Canadians are part of contributing to our hospitals and health services so that anyone can get the service when needed. Do you have fire and theft insurance for your home? Do you take out health coverage insurance when you travel outside the country? Do you actually know what the concept is behind insurance?

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            No, Robbie, it doesn’t. You have forced unwilling people to contribute to your desires. That makes you no better than a common thief. Only, in your case, you have rationalized that you have the moral high ground. You don’t.

          • Robbie

            You didn’t answer me if you have fire & theft insurance for your home or if you take out travel insurance when you go overseas. I’d like to know. And if you are a Christian (or think you are) does the phrase “do unto others as you would have them do unto you” ring a bell at all?

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            As I said before it is a non-sequitur. My personal choices have absolutely nothing to do with the equity of Forced Health Care Insurance. As usual, being the bent of Liberal Progressives, you are going off on a desperate tangent to distract from the issue.
            But I’ll answer your ignorant question anyway. I don’t buy any insurance that is not Forced upon me by others, such as Liberal Progressives and their Proxy Gang (Government).
            I’m sure that I’ve told you before that I am atheist, Robbie. Is your memory failing? As far as “do unto others as you would have them do unto you” — That is exactly how I live my life. Thus, I would not even dream of Forcing others to do things they don’t want to do.
            You can argue all you want, Robbie, but deep down in that brain of yours, you know that you are not a good person, and that will come back to haunt you. Maybe it already has, since a large component of heart disease is due to stress and what more stress is there than knowing you’re a hypocrite?

          • marciamaria

            Your sick and mean too.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Imagine that. A Liberal Progressive calling me names. I think my feelings are hurt.
            You call me mean, Marcia? While you’re voting for your Gang to steal other people’s money? That’s some mighty fine rationalization.

          • Robbie

            So you do have house insurance. You may not agree but that happens to be a good idea as is health insurance. The concept is that if some disaster befalls you it is averaged out between hundreds – even millions – of people. And that’s really what the Golden Rule is all about. It is hardly out on a tangent. In any society we are all inter-related and inter-dependent like it or not. No man is an island, one hand washes the other, we’re all in this together etc.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            You’re missing the one key ingredient that makes you a creepy guy, Robbie. That is voluntary contracts. I don’t have to buy home insurance. And I buy only enough to cover my mortgage which I didn’t have to borrow if I didn’t want to.
            As usual, you are mixing apples and oranges to get watermelon.

          • Nadzieja Batki

            You like being a liar and a thief but you are trying to call it community altruism.

          • Robbie

            Do you have fire and theft insurance on your home? And, if so, why? This should not be a very hard question to answer.

          • Dead_Right

            Canadians and euros do not have near the military force to protect themselves making a wish like “free” healthcare seem affordable. We pay for it. and we have a graduated tax thanks to marxists everywhere.
            Don’t believe in right or wrong, good or evil? OK
            Greed is automatically controlled by free market competition, Envy on the other hand, the foundation of liberalism is an open ended sewer of sins:
            He has and I don’t so I will demand someone take from him to give to me. Even worse I will bribe you into voting for me by what I give to you from those I compete with politically.
            Sin 1: Theft of property through taxation.
            Sin 2: Bribery for votes with stolen money.
            Sin 3: The non- producer is the recipient of stolen property.
            Sin 4 and the worst of all, the recipient loses his self esteem and motivation to be more productive with his God-given one shot at it life.
            A lie is only believed if it gives an incentive. Envy is the mother-load of false incentive.
            Repent of taking, be productive and give freely and lovingly from your own, not from the work of others.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            This is rich. A Liberal Progressive talking about “responsibilities”, “selfishness”, and “arrogance”.
            Who do you think you kid, Shill Dave?

        • Sook Young

          Why do you talk about race when this is clearly not the issue? I do not like Obama because of how he is trying to dismantle this great country piece, by piece, by piece. If you live in Canada, that is fine, but you shouldn’t be trying to give opinions about America and our government. I have personally seen patients in our hospital that have come from Canada and couldn’t afford to wait on their sometimes long waiting lists for certain conditions. Why do you have waiting lists? Why are your doctors limited to performing a certain number of operations a month? Why are your nursing staffs always short handed in which the workload for each nurse is at least 3 times that of America? I hope it is repealed. No nurse at our hospital wants it and neither do the doctors. Especially, since it will also lower our pay and benefits.
          http://www.townhall.com/tipsheet/kateandrews/2013/09/29/uk-warns-citizens-against-taking-first-step-towards-american-health-care-system-n1712855
          I hope that people heed this warning as we do not need this program. Thank you and God Bless America!
          Sook Young
          “Be not wise in thine own eyes; fear the Lord, and depart from evil.”
          Proverbs 3:7

      • Robbie

        Didn’t you even read what I wrote? You asked where does the money come from to pay for universal health care in Canada. I clearly stated that it comes from income taxes.

        • David M.

          Canada doesn’t suffer from a $17 trillion official debt and a $200 trillion unofficial debt. So the questions is, where does the AMERICAN GOVERNMENT get the money to fund Obamacare?

          • Robbie

            From people who pay the insurance premiums. If enough folks sign up no problem and from initial reports it sounds like folks are signing up in droves. It’s going to be good. And if there has to be some government subsidy so what? Farmers get paid NOT to grow certain crops – what’s wrong with paying for health care?

            An interesting survey was done yesterday. People were asked which they preferred: The Affordable Health Care Act OR Obamacare. The AFC Act beat Obamacare hands down. Just goes to show you what is at issue here for the average idiot.

        • Sook Young

          I understand that it all seems so good, but though you may pay nothing, what about the taxpayers that have money taken from their paychecks with no voice to say anything about it? Isn’t this against the American way? I can pay for myself and I do not need to burden other people to pay for me. I’m a hard working American woman and nurse. I am mature, responsible, and efficient enough to pay for myself.
          http://www.politichicks.tv/column/obamacare-accept-nothing-less-repeal/
          http://www.politichicks.tv/2013/09/awesome-house-adds-obamacare-freedom-religion-clause-cr/
          This is how I feel. Sorry if I was to strong in my posting language. Thank you and God Bless America!
          Sook Young

    • TheOriginalDaveH

      You forgot to mention the waiting lines, Robbie. And the truth is that care isn’t free — It is just paid for by you or somebody else through taxation. Once Healthcare is swallowed up by the Leviathan Beast, learning what it is really costing you is nearly impossible.
      You might, for instance, think that you’re getting away with something because the Rich pay most of the taxes, but the reality is that they just raised their product prices or laid off workers to make ends meet. There is no Free Lunch, Robbie.
      Also, the people who take care of themselves are then forced to pay for the medical care of those who don’t. And those who don’t take care of themselves are given even more incentive not to take care of themselves because they perceive the medical care to be free (moral hazard), as do you, Robbie.
      http://www.fraserinstitute.org/uploadedFiles/fraser-ca/Content/research-news/research/publications/waiting-your-turn-2012.pdf
      Apparently Robbie is not alone up there:
      http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/18145

      • marciamaria

        He never once said it was FREE.

        • TheOriginalDaveH

          Robbie said — “There are absolutely no charges to patients for any necessary medical service”.

          • marciamaria

            At the time of service. It’s already covered by other means. He didn’t say you never pay a dime.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Marcia, you’re grasping at straws. Desperate to win one, are you?
            By the way, see Robbie’s comment below where he says — “Not to mention the fact that my recent heart attack, 5 days in hospital, dozens and dozens of tests of all kinds and probably two dozen doctor office visits have cost me – not including my income tax – absolutely zero”.

          • marciamaria

            Hey, I’m not desperate for anything…. sounds like you are the obsessed one Original Dave. I’ve just been defending my brother over in Canada. My insurance is covered by my employer. It has not changed one bit because of Obamacare. Just like he said it wouldn’t.

        • Nadzieja Batki

          marciamaria, playing semantics. You are on the wrong site to play that foolish game.

          • marciamaria

            That’s the way I read it dude. Not playing anything.

      • Robbie

        Of course there is no free lunch. I didn’t say there was. I clear;ly pointed out that our medical system is funded mainly from income taxes. The great thing about a system where everyone is a “member” is that there are simply more tax dollars to be used. Medical care is a very expensive proposition and it needs every taxpayer to be contributing.

        • TheOriginalDaveH

          That’s weak, Robbie, even coming from you.
          There are no economies of scale from taxpayer-subsidized Health Care. In fact, given the reality of Moral Hazard, it is just the opposite. More patients demanding services and fewer providers for those services will either raise prices or, in the case of Government-run Healthcare, create shortages.

          • Robbie

            Neither of your propositions happens in Canada. That’s all I know. But good luck with that Economics 101 text book.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            You know nothing of the sort, Robbie. You are just spouting conjecture.

          • Robbie

            I happen to live in Canada and know a thing or two about our health care system. It’s not conjecture when I say that overall our system is a heck of a lot better than yours although your current President is making a eat effort to try to match s. Of course, as Mitt Romney said on camera, the socialised medical care system in Israel is the BEST in the world. Mitt ought to know!

            I’ll add just one point. You should realize that you are suffering from an American disease. For various reasons (your schooling, your churches etc) you are under the impression that anything in America is naturally better than anywhere else in the world. Always keep that in mind – if you can – when forming ideas.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Are you sure you were a teacher? Your comment is pure Conjecture. There are so many parameters to Health Care that even a well-funded study is unlikely to come close to a valid analysis. Our present Health Care system (before Obamacare) is riddled with Government meddling. Government has created the problems we experience. I have demonstrated that with article after article. You just need to read them. More Government is not going to solve our Problems. Government IS the Problem, NOT the Solution.

            And pertaining to your last paragraph, Robbie, I have not said anything of the sort. You are just doing the typical Liberal Progressive thing of putting words in my mouth. I could care less where other countries’ Gang Leaders take them. I only care about the US.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            What it means, Shill Dave, is that you Liberal Progressive Shills will attack me whether I post evidence or not, because your goal is to silence me and keep me from waking up others. It isn’t working though, is it? You are just demonstrating to the readers on a daily basis just how truly bankrupt Liberal Progressive thinking is.

          • kkflash

            One of my colleagues at work here in Minnesota has parents who are Canadian citizens. Fortunately for them, they are wealthy, so they come to Minnesota for much of their healthcare, and pay out of pocket, rather than put up with the Canadian rationing system.

          • Robbie

            There probably are such cases – I have no doubt. Americans – especially in border states often come to Canada for health care especially in certain specialties. Have a look at your very own Sarah Palin’s first book where she notes that her family in rural Alaska used to go across to Canada’s Yukon Territory for health care needs. Now that’s neat.

        • Nadzieja Batki

          Where the bloody hell does the money come from? Some man/woman had to do without portions of their salary to cover your wants.

          • Robbie

            You seem to be a slow learner. You keep asking the exact same question. Our health care system is funded from income tax revenues. Do you speak and read ENGLISH? Please don’t ask the same question again. It’s getting boring.

      • Nadzieja Batki

        Robbie doesn’t care that like a parasite he attached himself to workers and taxpayers backs to feed on.

        • TheOriginalDaveH

          Maddening, isn’t it Nad?
          I think we can see from their comments that they are capable of any degree of rationalization. No wonder those Communist societies can so often resort to genocide. No conscience. No sense. If they want what we have, they will just come up with some rosy rationalization for why it’s okay for them to take it.

    • marciamaria

      God you are a lucky guy to live in Canada. It isn’t all that complicated in reality is it? But leave it to the US government to make it complicated.

  • Debbie Biersdorfer

    Obamacare reminds me of a spoon of medicine that your parents gave you when you were little. They keep trying to tell you it’s good for you and it will make you feel all better. Well guess what we are not children and I refuse to take something just because someone said it is good for me.

    • marciamaria

      Well, they say that getting a vaginal sonogram and being forced to listen to your baby’s heart beat is good for you too. Even if you have made the decision to terminate your pregnancy. I would refuse to do that before I would refuse to carry health insurance. After all, we are forced to buy car tags, car insurance, inspection stickers, pay taxes and pee in a cup.

      • TheOriginalDaveH

        Two, Three, and even Four Wrongs still don’t make a Right, Marcia.

        • marciamaria

          I was talking to Debbie. Two wrongs have never made a right. Unless the right was black.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Isn’t that what you are saying when you are comparing mandatory health insurance to “car tags, car insurance, inspection stickers, pay taxes and pee in a cup”.

          • marciamaria

            Yep, pretty much.

      • http://batman-news.com samurai

        Listening to the babies heartbeat is a good thing and so are sonograms, for health reasons. A woman who wants to terminate her pregnancy is selfish and has no good or God inside her, period. Here are some articles about Obama bin Laden Care.
        http://www.townhall.com/columnists/derekhunter/2013/09/29/obamacares-failures-are-causing-democrats-to-become-unhinged-n1712375/page/full
        http://www.townhall.com/columnists/austinhill/2013/09/29/dont-let-this-happen-to-your-profession-ama-culpable-in-our-government-healthcare-fiasco-n1712380/page/full
        http://www.townhall.com/columnists/brucebialosky/2013/09/29/they-dont-want-obamacare-either-n1712346/page/full
        FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!
        You need both love of country and faith in GOD to be a patriot.
        “I have not yet begun to fight.”
        John Paul Jones

        • Sook Young

          What about the husband or boyfriend who wants to keep the child? Since you say to the samurai that he knows why every abortion is performed, but I’m affraid you do not. Only a small percentage of abortions are for rape, incest, or the life of the mother. The rest are mostly due to the woman not wanting to take responsibility for what she has done. I have four children and never thought about having an abortion. Here is something about how abortions will be paid for by the unconstitutional healthcare act of Obama.
          http://www.lifenews.com/2013/10/01/obamacare-day-one-many-americans-will-fund-abortions-without-their-consent/
          Isn’t this unconstitutional for the government to do? Doesn’t this violate the Hyde Amendment? Thank you and God Bless America!
          Sook Young
          “The Centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed.
          For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.
          When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.”
          Matthew 8:8 – 10

          • Sarah417

            For most women, abortion is a serious issue with emotional and physical fallout.

            Not so anymore. In this age of moral decay and selfishness most women are using abortion as a means of birth control. Sorry to bust your bubble.

          • marciamaria

            You are wrong Sarah. Sorry. What do you know about abortion anyway? Your statistics are backwards. It is the other way around.

        • marciamaria

          Not if you don’t plan on keeping the baby! It’s a really really bad idea. End of story.

          • http://batman-news.com samurai

            Your choice, your child, your responsibility. End of story.. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!
            You need both love of country and faith in GOD to be a patriot.

  • Gimmesumadat Whatyougot

    LET THEM EAT CAKE! Or something to that effect….

  • gorbak

    What,what does it take to make it clear to everyone in this country not directly working for this lying, monsterous,absolute completely inept,self serving machine we have to call “our government”no longer cares about anything except themselves! If there were ever any doubt of this fact,it should have been proven with the mother of all lies “we MUST invade Irac to eliminate thier weapons of mass distruction” perpetuated by the mass media. If for some that do not even possess the most elemental intelligence,that is, when dealing with anything related to promices is “FOLLOW THE MONEY”. If you apply this basic rule to our government you will see that the ruination of even our most rights and the absolute dictatorship is their vision. I used to say ,vote these bums out ,now I fear,that if they can spy on us at will,the rigging of this act of voting is totally useless.
    May the LORD help us,this government wiil not.

    • TheOriginalDaveH

      gorbak,
      It’s been that way since Abraham Lincoln. In fact, in the Colonial Period, favoritism to the Crony Business people was the essence of Government. Mercantilism (Crony Capitalism) really only had a brief respite for about 70 years after the Revolution. After the Founders died off, apathy won over, and Big Government recovered it’s historical role of aiding special interests who in return helped the Politicians get re-elected.

    • Merle Dickey

      Remember the rumor that the wmd s were taken over the border to Syria to get them out of Iraq? The pictures of the column of trucks that went over into Syria before the US ever invaded.That was in 2002. Now Syria has the largest inventory of wmds in the world! So says all the news channels. Just something to think about.

  • NC

    ABORIGINAL. ARE YOU STALKING ME? NOT THAT I CARE!
    YOU ARE A ONE TRICK PONY, MISES, IN A DEBATE AND IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN A LOSER! JUST NEVER GOT OFF THE GROUND!!
    MAYBE YOU CAN TRADE YOUR MISES LIBRARY FOR A USED 8 TRACT TAPE PLAYER! BUT YOU WILL HAVE TO PAY BOOT! BUT YOU WILL BE A PLAYER IN THE FREE MARKET!! THAT BEATS VON MISES RECORD!!
    EVEN THE CRAZIES HERE NO LONGER HELP YOU PITCH THAT MESS!

  • Karolyn

    Just saw a family of four on TV – small business owners with 2 little girls – go online and find health insurance for $427 per month as compared with the $2000/month quote she had previously been given because her daughter has a pre-existing condition.

    • TheOriginalDaveH

      Free Markets at work. Too bad we don’t have more.

      • Karolyn

        They did it today via their state-run ACA website.

        • TheOriginalDaveH

          When I was a young man, my wife had a Caesarian delivery which cost us $400 (we had no insurance).
          That included a couple of days in the Hospital.
          What does that cost now?
          http://healthcarebluebook.com/page_Results.aspx?id=70&dataset=hosp

          Why do you suppose people, (Government) who have secure jobs and no responsibility for failure, nosing into your choices, would cost less, Karolyn?

        • http://batman-news.com samurai

          This could be Karolyn, but there are many difficulties and false claims on their website. Here is an article that explains what I mean.
          http://www.westernjournalism.com/technical-glitches-define-obamacare-rollout/
          Here is an video explaining why Congress, the Senate, and the pretender are not getting on board for Obama bin Laden Care. It will be a train wreck.
          http://www.westernjournalism.com/o-bummercare-one-grand-disappointment/
          I understand you may support this program, but not even Sook Young, who is a nurse, supports it. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!
          You need both love of country and faith in GOD to be a patriot.
          “History is God’s providence in human affairs.”
          Daniel Webster
          American statesman
          “Defender of the Constitution”
          Devout Christian

          • Sook Young

            But doesn’t your posts and sources have a left wing bias? It doesn’t matter whether left or right, but the message is what is important. Here is something that shows the liberals in California allow a Saudi woman to keep slaves in her California home.
            http://www.freepatriot.org/2013/09/25/saudi-princess-allowed-keep-slaves-california-home-2/
            I thought that the Thirteenth Amendment would keep her from having slaves. I guess that California doies not enforce the Thirteenth Amendment. Thank you and God Bless America!
            Sook Young
            “Speak of the tiger and it comes.”
            Traditional Korean saying

    • Teddy Ruxpin

      I’d like to know what they will get for that money?

      • lokiswife

        That was probably the “bronze plan” that pays 60% of your medical costs and adds a high copayment on top of that. If they have a lot of medical bills for the child, they will be paying much more than they are expecting to pay.

    • Hey, Porcupine!

      What you are celebrating is the good part of the law, the noble aim …however, upon whose backs will that difference be made up? There is no free lunch, for every case like this there will be many more suffering to pay for it & many young people who don’t want it or need it who will be kinda forced into getting it!

  • Karolyn

    Great video of 2 republicans being asked if their salary should be held back.

    http://freakoutnation.com/2013/09/30/awkward-republican-congress-members-are-asked-if-theyll-forgo-their-salary-during-a-government-shutdown/
    However, I did see one republican/tea party congresswoman say she was asking to have her pay held.

  • Madeline Moskowitz

    “It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to
    a profoundly sick society.”
    ~ Krishnamurti

  • ireAmerica

    Three schools of thinking on spending vs debt;

    Hayek
    Spend less than you have to save for investment. Invest only what you can afford to risk, because risk can result in loss or or produce gain. Avoid debt, as debt-service is doubly unproductive and a guaranteed loss.

    Keynes
    The more you spend and the faster you spend the more wealth is available. Wealth is “generated” by the velocity times the amount of money in motion. Debt is just an insignificant accounting procedure.

    Obama
    Ask Nancy, $1.00 in food stamps generates $1.70 in economic activity. Now that’s recovery. Spending and debt have nothing to do with each other… unless you can blame the Republicans.

  • WTS/JAY

    The White House approved an exemption in Obamacare coverage for Congress and members of their staff. Members complained that the Affordable Care Act will cost them thousands extra a year in premiums. Wait a minute. It’s their bill. If it’s too expensive, why did they name it the Affordable Care Act? -Jay Leno

    • http://batman-news.com samurai

      D’oh! :-) :-) :-) Keep up the good fight fellow patriot. Here is a video of a GOP representative from North Carolina burying Obama bin Laden on the House floor.
      http://www.westernjournalism.com/watch-congressman-hammer-obama-house-floor-elect-dictator/
      It seems that he is right. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!
      You need both love of country and faith in GOD to be a patriot.
      “Whatever makes men good Christians makes them good citizens.”
      Daniel Webster
      American Statesman
      “Defender of the Constitution”
      Devout Christian

      • Sook Young

        Couldn’t this be an argument to ridicule? Please do not attack the Samurai, for he is correct in his assertions. Bush’s tax cuts did a lot for the economy, but I don’t remember seeing anything positive done by the democrats in five years. The two wars argument is not the issue here, but if you want to talk about wars, what about Bosnia, Lybia (which was unconstitutional), and now possibly Syria? Did you know that 75% of all deaths in Afghanistan were during Obama’s terms in office? I have found this about Obama.
        http://www.freedomoutpost.com/2013/09/obama-eligibility-attorney-larry-klayman-sets-date-for-revolution-to-end-obamas-reign-of-terror/#u1F7lolCHQOSpdYl.99
        Sorry for saying this, but I hope the person is telling the truth and not just talking. Thank you and God Bless America!
        Sook Young
        “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in Him, shall not perish, but have everlasting life.”
        John 3:16

        • speedle24

          That depends on your definition of “the people”. To you “the people” are the slackers, ne’er do wells and crack heads. To Conservatives, “the people” are the citizens who “work” to make this country function. The problem is both examples get to vote, and that’s a shame.

          • speedle24

            Taking “pork” from the Fed gov???? Do you think Texas is a lazy conservative state? It rejected the Medicaid money (pork). Do you actually believe that the taxpayers in CA, iL and NY subsidize Texas? If so, you need to go back to school.

  • Sook Young

    All this about people having free healthcare when we should work for what we need and be responsible enough to pay our bills without any interference from the government. We have a government run health care system in Korea and due to this, many Koreans have not only seen the amount from their checks withheld increase, but taxes have also increased. The average Korean pays and extra 5% – 10% more in taxes from their pay to fund this program. Sorry, but I didn’t think America was founded on the idea of supporting and caring for people at the expense of others. I like what the truckers are doing and the message they are bringing to the people.
    http://www.wnd.com/2013/09/truckers-roar-to-d-c-with-impeachment-movement/
    I also would like to compare Obama’s beliefs to our Christian beliefs. They are so very different from what he said he was in 2008.
    http://www.freedomoutpost.com/2013/09/contrast-barack-obamas-quotes-islam-quotes-christianity/
    Let us please elect a good, responsible, mature, and competent leaders in 2014 and 2016. Thank you and God Bless America!
    Sook Young
    “The riches we impart are the only wealth we shall always retain.”
    Matthew Henry

  • pnwdave

    Well stated, Brandon.

    • Irene Elizabeth Grooms

      He is right about obamacare but what is really behind this and what is our future if this is a plan to control the American People.

  • kkflash

    In their zeal to grab another 18% of the economy and place it under government control, Obama and the libs have ignored the main problem with healthcare in the USA – IT COSTS TOO MUCH. Placing healthcare under greater government control will not lower costs, because extra government ALWAYS adds to costs. Big government is the worst, and least efficient administrator on earth. They are an unnecessary drain on the private sector economy that makes everything cost more. Fooling people into thinking their health coverage costs less by paying for all or part of their premiums with taxpayers’ money does not lower costs. It raises the overall cost by adding another layer of bureaucracy and administration. Forcing insurance companies to cover the uninsurable will not lower costs; it will raise premiums by adding more unhealthy folks to the insurance pool. Even adding healthy people to the insurance pool won’t lower costs, because healthy people with insurance will use more health services than those without insurance, thus increasing demand for health services , and putting upward pressure on prices. The only things that effectively lower the cost of goods/services are: (1) lower demand and (2) greater supply which both lead to increased competition among providers. If we want lower healthcare costs, we need to reduce government involvement and regulations that keep the supply of healthcare services low, and the demand high.

  • speedle24

    Obama is much more of a clear and present danger to this country than Saddam ever was. If he is not restrained by congress for the next 3 years we are all toast, including you Dave (unless you are one of his personal toilet assistants).

    • speedle24

      The kind of proof you would need for my assertions would be the kind of proof we needed to determine the long term health impact on the Japanese population from a nuclear bomb. First you drop the bomb.
      The Obama ideology is the bomb. What is wrong with you Alex? Recessions are about private sector economic issues. Obama has restricted the private sector ecomony on purpose (except for his personal green projects which all turned out to be failures). Can you not see this?
      The GOP cannot pass any legislation “to get us out of this recession” because it is not permitted by the democrats. Obamacare could be the final coffin nail.

  • WTS/JAY

    Hello: Every Senate Democrat Voted in Favor of Exempting Themselves From Obamacare…

    One of the most profoundly unfair provisions of Obamacare is that members of Congress and their staffers were unilaterally and illegally granted a special exemption from the law they themselves passed. Unlike many Americans, many of whom have beenforcibly kicked off their current health care plans, the governing class and their staffers as of now will keep their insurance providers and receive an enormous taxpayer subsidy (depending on which plan they choose) to off-set rising health care costs. Sound fair? I didn’t think so.

    Read more at http://girlsjustwannahaveguns.com/2013/10/hello-every-senate-democrat-voted-favor-exempting-obamacare/#uqB8y9tBpbV6UKd0.99

  • terri mikula

    Burn Obamacare out! I wish America Troops of military power can arrest Obama is bad man dangerous..No more anymore Obamacare. We need to be freedom back our country..

  • joe1cr

    Obamacare = government monopoly !!! Did not the Sherman anti-trust act of 1890 prohibited monopolies, While other laws prohibited the means of achieving a monopoly, this act prohibited having a monopoly. The health care exchanges
    and the government are picking which companies will have these monopolies.
    An economic advantage held by one or more persons or companies deriving from the exclusive power to carry on a particular business or trade or to manufacture and sell a particular item, thereby suppressing competition and allowing such persons or companies to raise the price of a product or service substantially above the price that would be established by a free market.

  • vietnamvet1971

    O’bama care was designed to FAIL so they can step in and take control of the whole Health Care system as people watch it happen. The point of no return when is it going to happen? When will the American people rise up and say enough is enough?

  • Irene Elizabeth Grooms

    You are the liar here cause its your president and his jerks of his administration who is screwing us.

  • freedomrider

    divide and conquer. a house divided amongst itself cannot stand!

  • Jeff Noncent

    it is more than that the Scorpion care is a socialist, communist care and this nation was not found by socialism, communism

  • hungry4food