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Obama Shafts Responsible Homeowners

February 17, 2012 by  

Obama Shafts Responsible Homeowners

Hey, look, it’s manna from heaven! If you lost your home to foreclosure, Barack Obama is going to see that you get a check for some 2,000 bucks. Free!

And not only that. If you still own your home but it’s worth a lot less than you owe on it, he’s got even better news for you. The President, in league with the Nation’s attorneys general, has gotten the banks to agree to reduce what you owe.

Isn’t that wonderful?!? Why, it’s almost like getting free money. What a wonderful deal our leaders have arranged.

Of course, it’s only wonderful for people who bought more house than they could afford, got over their heads in debt and are looking for someone to rescue them from their mistakes. And it’s also a pretty good deal for the five huge financial institutions that are participating, as I’ll explain in a moment. They’ll get bailed out of their mistakes, too.

That’s who benefits. Now, let me tell you who loses. For the most thrifty and responsible among us, the deal stinks.

My friend Gary Bauer of Campaign for Working Families used an analogy that makes what happened crystal clear. Consider the case of two families who both bought a home on the same street several years ago. Both homes cost $200,000.  Couple No. 1 saved for years and denied themselves many extras so they would have $40,000 for a down payment. And over the years, they faithfully made every mortgage payment on time, even though the value of their home fell below what they paid for it.

Couple No. 2 had no savings and couldn’t put anything down. But they were able to get a no-money-down mortgage with an adjustable interest rate. As the economy tanked and their interest rate rose, they found it impossible to make their mortgage payments. They listened to the liberal rhetoric telling them it wasn’t their fault and stopped making mortgage payments altogether.

Now comes the “fairness” President, announcing that the couple that sacrificed and made all their payments on time will get nothing. While the couple that wasn’t as prudent or responsible will have the size of their mortgage and their interest rate on it reduced. If they have been evicted already, they will get a check for $2,000.

So the thrifty and responsible homeowner gets nothing. But in fact he gets worse than nothing. Because when the dust settles, his home will have fallen in value just as much as the other guy’s.

No wonder financial analyst Dick Bove told CNBC viewers that this is “the mortgage deal from hell.” He said that the biggest lesson to learn from all of this is that “only fools meet their financial commitments.” He further said, “If you’re going to do something which is going to reduce the value of existing homes where people are making their payments, every American should stop making his payments on his mortgages, send a letter to the Attorney General in his state and say ‘I qualify to have my principal reduced because I’m not going to make any more payments on my house.’”

Boy, won’t that make America a better place?

But if this is such a bad deal, why were five big banks so eager to join it? You will not be surprised to learn that this is as much a bank bailout deal as it is a help-the-homeowner deal.

David Stockman, Ronald Reagan’s budget director, put it succinctly. “This is ultimately at the end of the day a bailout for JP Morgan and Wells Fargo” and other big underwriters of second mortgages and home-equity loans.

When a foreclosure takes place, these obligations become worthless. With refinancing, they won’t. It’s that simple.

Where is the money for this $25 billion bailout coming from? Ally/GMAC, Bank of America, Citigroup, JPMorgan Chase and Wells Fargo will each put up $5 billion. The President’s plan, Stockman says rightly, is “the worst kind of crony socialism.”

Pacific Investment Management Company, better known as Pimco, owns a ton of mortgage debt. Scott Simon, the head of mortgage investments there, says of the $250 billion in their Total Return Fund, about half is in mortgage debt.

“A lot of the principal reductions would have happened on their loans anyway,” Simon says. “And they’re using other people’s money to pay for a ton of this.  Pension funds, 401(k)s and mutual funds are going to pick up a lot of the load.”

Simon didn’t mince any words about the morality, or lack of it, with the deal. “You tell your kid, ‘you did something bad, so I’m going to fine you $10. But if you can steal $22 from your mom, you can pay me with that.’” That’s the sort of deal our “fairness” President has foisted on us.

While I’m on the subject of rotten deals, let me say a few words about Obama’s budget for the coming year. It’s a lulu. Forget about the reduction in Federal spending that the overwhelming majority of Americans wants to see. Obama’s budget calls for a 0.2 percent increase in Federal spending, for a total of $3.8 trillion. Our gross domestic product is $13.3 trillion.

Obama wants to spend almost one-fourth of all the money made by all of the production in this country. Every time a dollar changes hands for anything, Washington wants to take a quarter of it. (And if ObamaCare ever gets fully implemented, that ratio is sure to go higher. Pray that never happens. Or better yet, work like blazes to make sure we get a House and Senate this November that will make sure it doesn’t.)

Federal revenues, according to the estimates of Obama’s budget boys, won’t begin to pay for all the money they want to spend. The estimated deficit for the year will hit be $1.33 trillion. That would make four years in a row of annual deficits over $1 trillion.

I don’t plan to write much more about Obama’s budget proposals, because there’s little or no chance Congress will approve them.

While the President’s budget is dead on arrival, that’s not the case with his class-warfare, politics-of-envy, tax-the-rich rhetoric. You can expect a flood of the latter in the coming months. I’m very afraid it might be enough to get that “crony socialist” re-elected this fall.

Until next time, keep some powder dry.

–Chip Wood

Chip Wood

is the geopolitical editor of PersonalLiberty.com. He is the founder of Soundview Publications, in Atlanta, where he was also the host of an award-winning radio talk show for many years. He was the publisher of several bestselling books, including Crisis Investing by Doug Casey, None Dare Call It Conspiracy by Gary Allen and Larry Abraham and The War on Gold by Anthony Sutton. Chip is well known on the investment conference circuit where he has served as Master of Ceremonies for FreedomFest, The New Orleans Investment Conference, Sovereign Society, and The Atlanta Investment Conference.

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  • http://personallibertydigest Lyle McDaniell

    There is no free lunch. who do you suppose will have to pay for that too’

    • Ryan

      The article said the big banks will pay up a couple billion $ each to save hundreds of billions of mortgages they’ve underwritten. They don’t want people to foreclose because that passes the loss of value of the house from the homeowner back to the bank, plus the bank will have to resell the house to get the revenue coming in again. And often, people stop being able to afford to take care of a house before they can’t afford to make the mortgage payments, so the house will turn out to be worth even less to the bank. We didn’t need the Obama administration to get the banks to renegotiate these loans, Obama just wants to take credit and the big banks want to look like good fellas for giving so much to people who can’t pay their bills.

      • DaveH

        Yep, good old vote buying.

      • Patty

        You must have missed the point of those loans are in people’s 401k’s. So again, the responsible people who have been stashing money into their 401k’s for retirement are going to be footing the bill. The majority are hard working middle class people. Thank god, I dumped my 401k and went with a self directed IRA. At least I am not losing money any longer.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003309707389 Tom W.

        Talk about robbin’ Peter to pay Paul! In the immortal words of Yakov Smirnoff, “Chicken at a fish place, I looove this country!!!”

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003309707389 Tom W.

        And you feel safe now Patti?! That was one of the most selfish posts that I think that I’ve ever read! And I thought Deer was bad!

        “Go to now, ye rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon you. Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are motheaten. Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days. Behold, the hire of the labourers who have reaped down your fields, which is of you kept back by fraud, crieth: and the cries of them which have reaped are entered into the ears of the Lord of sabaoth. Ye have lived in pleasure on the earth, and been wanton; ye have nourished your hearts, as in a day of slaughter. Ye have condemned and killed the just; and he doth not resist you. Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain. Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.” – James 5:1-8

        Pay special attention to the part about the labourers in the fields Patti, I’m so happy for you that YOU were able to get YOUR money out of the Wall St. slush fund! But I wouldn’t be celebrating too soon! If no one’s told you the truth yet Patti, THE WHEELS ARE COMING OFF OF THE BUS!!!
        Keep your eyes on the skies, JESUS IS COMING! He loves y’all and so do I!!!

      • Patty

        And exactly why does looking after myself LEGALLY make me selfish? If you are still in it, it makes you less knowledgable.

      • Patty

        Tom W – I AM one of the “labourers” you goof. Like since the age of 12.

      • Deerinwater

        Tom W. says:
        February 17, 2012 at 10:21 am
        “And you feel safe now Patti?! That was one of the most selfish posts that I think that I’ve ever read! And I thought Deer was bad!”

        Tom, surly you were a better space cadet then you are a political savvy blogger. There nothing wrong with people cutting their loses. I had to be rather firm with one of Edward Jones people just last week as he protested while I pulled family funds over concerned about the 2012 elections and what the GOP and their bankers friends might do to inflict financial misery on the American people for some perceived party gains.

        Patti made a sound decision and it was hers to make, it’s her money. So get real Space Boy, the world wasn’t created on your birthday or when you pulled you head out and accepted the fact that drugging is for losers and maybe you actually did want to be a part of the process.

        It takes years to get over drugging and some side effects never go away. By patient with yourself, you made a wise decision.

        But for now, you are “Johnny Come Lately” in this parade my felonious friend and have a lot of catching up to do.

        Just because people ignore most of your foolishness statements, don’t confuse it as some kind of “validation” . We endure you and encourage you when you are deserving.

        Everything a person might think, does not mean that it requires “saying”.

      • Cotton Top

        Hey Ryan Deerinthemud is worried about the wrong side . I have Lost more money under Obama than any GOP .

      • Deerinwater

        Hmm? will I’m sorry to hear about your lose, I think just about everybody has got a hair cut the last few years but the grave digger my friend. I buried a 97 year friend this week, he’d already bought the ground and only asked for graveside services, not wishing people to look at him. A little over ten grand and we’ve yet to set the headstone.

        It depends on what you are “in” as to how short the haircut. I did rather well myself in contracting of facilities support business while the facilities themselves took a serious bath. Lot’s of bank building office vacancies these days. While my domestic residential tanked in the run up to 2008 and hasn’t recovered since, I didn’t make enough money to pay attention “W”‘s last year in office.

        You can blame “O” for that if you wish, or you could be blaming Mc Cain today but you and I both know how it went down. Don’t we?

      • Joe H

        Patty,
        You missed the point as well. It is wores than nothing as this crap will still end up being funded by pax money so the person that paid for his house, like myself, will also have to pay taxes to fund this debacle!!!

      • Patty

        Joe H-I think that was a miss directed post to me or please explain further….

      • Tom W.

        Patty, first let me appologize for making you feel personally atacked, I’m sorry that I came across like that. I was refering to the pervasive attitude that as long as it doesn’t effect me everything is just hunkydory! If there was a lesson to be learned from 9/11 I hope and pray that it was that we can’t just rest on our laurels, what effects the rest of the world IS going to effect us also! That’s what I was referring to, and I’m sorry that I came off as attacking you personally, I try to save all that vented up frustration for attacking (big-headed thinks that he some kinda higher life form) idiots like Deerindeepkimchi;

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ch74By0HUIg

        • Deerinwater

          Ouch! I enjoy a good spirited debate, if you can offer one, bring it on.

          • Patty

            Tom W – Apology accepted. And yes, I do feel a little safer knowing that I am not contributing to the wolfs (no I like wolves) the maggots on wallstreet. The whole picture is that when 9/11 hit, those wallstreet people did cover all the 1%ers butts and pulled their stuff out into something safer and let all of us middle class people take the hit for it. People with company 401k’s are the ones that got screwed which is most everyone in the private sector. And ya, that pissed me off. So, since I run my own company, I told my employees what I thought and that I was dumping the plan so they should make arrangements. They all got an instant 3% raise since I was taking away their 3% 401k match. I told them what I was doing and if anyone wanted to do the same I would guide them as best I could. Most were happy to get out as they also could see what was happening. I am on my own. I don’t have a spouse or some gov’t. golden parachute retirement plan when the time comes. So ya, I am going to do what is best for me because I don’t want to have to live with my son or off of others. And if that sounds self serving to you, too bad. At least I am not a sheeple or lemming following everyone else over the perverbile cliff.

      • DaveH
        • Patty

          Ryan-Believe me I do know and agree. They are the crony capitalists taking turns getting elected at the helm. Have you ever noticed how it is families that keep getting elected.

    • FreedomFighter

      Some would call this buying votes and collecting re-election funds.

      Of course they would be correct.

      Laus Deo
      Semper Fi

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003309707389 Tom W.

        Politics as usual FF!

      • Dale Doelling

        My vote is NOT FOR SALE!

      • Tom W.

        Your vote might not be for sell Dale, but what comfort is that if there is actually no choice, only the illusion of choice?!! It’s either heads or tails of the same ole’ dirty coin!!!

      • not suckered by cons

        And some would call it lokking outfor those the 1% screwed.Full of inaccuracies and propaganda.

      • DaveH

        But you are being Suckered by Cons. The Cons are those Leaders and their Propagandists who have led you by the nose to think all Rich people are taking advantage of you, when in fact it is those Leaders and their Cronies, who are competing on an un-level playing field tilted in their favor, who are taking advantage of you.
        If you truly want to remedy that, you need to start investigating the advantages of Free Markets where peoples’ properties are strictly protected, and voluntary transactions free of Government meddling (except to protect people from Fraud and Force) is removed from the Marketplace. You could start by reading this book to discover what Capitalism really is (hint, it isn’t what the self-interested Progressives have propagandized you to believe):
        http://mises.org/books/capitalism_kelly.pdf

        Thank you Mises Institute for providing these Free books for people to learn from.

    • John

      Chip conveniently forgot the 3rd category of people that lost their homes and that i.m.h.o.is a very large category. People that come from all walks of life and every political idiology.
      The people who saved all their life’s, had good Jobs, saved up the 40k, 50k or more as down payments, The people who paid all their mortgage payments in time and that even in some cases where ahead of the payments. And with the downturn they lost their jobs, being tossed aside by the corporations in the name of profit. Those people who still paid their mortgage even though they had no jobs and used all the extra savings they had to try to stay above water… the people that even after they took a minimum wage job still could not make their payments and found out that the banks did not care that they where on time in the past and even ahead with their payments…. those people that finally after they tried their best, and nobody wanted to work with them…lost their homes…
      In Chips eyes, all those people are slackers…. what a simple world view to have? You do a large diservice to many citizens in this country that try their best to do the right thing but get screwed by people that care less about the citizens in this country then they would care about their dog at home.

      • Dntmkmecmoverther

        @John: John, put on your readers; Chip DID cover the 3rd category you mention. In case you still can’t find it: “Now comes the “fairness” President, announcing that the couple that sacrificed and made all their payments on time will get nothing. While the couple that wasn’t as prudent or responsible will have the size of their mortgage and their interest rate on it reduced. If they have been evicted already, they will get a check for $2,000.

        So the thrifty and responsible homeowner gets nothing. But in fact he gets worse than nothing. Because when the dust settles, his home will have fallen in value just as much as the other guy’s.

        No wonder financial analyst Dick Bove told CNBC viewers that this is “the mortgage deal from hell.” He said that the biggest lesson to learn from all of this is that “only fools meet their financial commitments.”

      • Ellen

        John, I agree. The first round of foreclosures was mostly people who couldn’t afford a house but got one because of foolish government policy. That started the economic downturn that began layoffs. Once laid off, it is nearly inpossible to keep your home because our safety net unemployment benefits are not a safety net at all. The average benefit is $300 per week. If you have a $1500 mortgage and a $300 car payment and a $200 auto insurance payment each month (very reasonable payments), you can’t make them with the pittance you get from unemployment. This doesn’t even begin to factor in food, utilities, and health insurance. The bottom line is that we don’t have a safety net for middle class & upper middle class people. The rich are self-sufficient. The ‘poor’ are provided for by our safety net. Why should a baby mamma with 5 illegitimate kids get to live off the government (taxpayers) while someone who has worked hard and lost their income loses everything they ever worked for? The social programs set up decades ago to avoid the problems of the Great Depression were hijacked by the Democratic party and welfare has become a way of life for generations of slackers. We need to re-do our unemployment compensation to make it effective and we need to stop paying women to have babies. We also need to end welfare for immigrants.

      • Eddie47d

        The last time I looked Banks were mostly run by Conservatives yet the Liberals get blamed for the shenanigans pulled off by those Conservative Banks. Their tricks and fancy financing brought our economy and the mortgage industry to it’s knees. This story is worthless because it doesn’t tell the whole story but there is nothing unusual about that.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003309707389 Tom W.

        What makes my skin crawl Ellen is standing in line at the grocery store and seeing the person in front of you in a work uniform of some kind pay for a basket load of groceries buy swiping the old food stamp card! Oh eddie, STFU!!!

      • John

        Dntmkmecmoverther

        Well, He did not cover that 3rd part at all, he only sheared everyone over the same comb or are YOU just as Chip saying, that people that where responsible all their life’s are irresponsible slackers because they fell on hard times trough no fault of their own?
        If so, I hope you will have no rude awakening sometimes in the near future.

      • kkflash

        John, it makes no difference whether people were responsible and didn’t make their payments, or were irresponsible and didn’t make their payments. Either way, they defaulted on an obligation and it is not the proper business of government to bail them out. Home ownershop entails risks, like any other investment, and that includes loss of your income. If you’re not prepared to bear those risks, you shouldn’t buy a home.

        Just so we’re clear, I didn’t and don’t approve of bailouts for the banks either, but a liberal Congress in 2008 disagreed with my philosophy, and decided to take the money from taxpayers, and redistribute it to those who made mistakes in their investments, just as they are continuing to do now.

      • John

        KKflash,
        You are right, but that’s not the point I am trying to make, i am saying that it is elitist and short sighted to call people that where responsible all their life’s and now through an event outside of their control they lost their home …slackers or irresponsible…
        I don’t care how much you own, and how secure one thinks he is, there will always be events outside your control that can cause you to loose it all. The average US citizen, and I don’t care how secure they think they are, is only one catastrophic event away from losing everything and living in a card board box

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000314071270 Bob Lippert

        Hey John John, next time please read the article in more detail. Chip covered everyone. By the way, you whine too much.

      • http://gravatar.com/hattles JeffH

        eddie, once again you’ve made one of the most dumbfounded statements of the day.

        I suppose you have honest, verifiable references? NOT!

        You’ll never get it and yes, you can’t be fixed.

      • Joe H

        Yeah, ellen good Idea, let’s give the unemployed MORE reason NOT to work!!! Why not just have them utomatically go to welfare and pay for their house??? The few times I have been laid off, the longest time you could collect unemployment was 26 weeks. What do you suppose people did then to leep their homes? They worked two and three jobs to equal their prior income. This plan was to be a small hold over till you started back to work, not to be a living, any more than minimum wage was!! There are people out there that aren’t even looking for work because they have this money guaranteed for over a year. Lady, the purse strings only stretch so far!!! you want us to end up worse than Greece??

      • Tom W.

        Yeah Jeff, eddie kinda excells at verbal diarrhea!!! Somebody get that boy some Pepto!

      • DaveH

        John says “In Chips eyes, all those people are slackers…. what a simple world view to have?”.
        Where did Chip say that, John? Of course it’s a simple world for Left Liberals because apparently they have no pangs of conscience when they put words in other peoples’ mouths. I see that technique employed regularly by the Left Liberals on this board.
        Chip, no doubt, cares a lot about the people who have suffered from the bust (I know I do), but what separates Chip and I from you Left Liberals is that we know the solutions that you offer will bring more of the same misery.
        In 2005 my daughter was chomping at the bit to buy a home. She and her husband had been living in an apartment for several years and they were sick of it. I begged her not to buy a home then as I knew we were in a bubble and nothing good could come of it. I told her that she could rent a nice home and let somebody else take the risk of ownership, but she ignored me and did it anyway. 3 years later she walked away from the home. But then she bought another, albeit much more home for the money. She is now underwater again, but if she whines about it to anybody, she knows not to whine to me because she had been warned again on that second purchase also. Do you think it makes me happy to see my children losing their money?
        The reality of things is that Politicians protect bankers. They have done that since the beginnings of our country, but most especially since the Federal Reserve was instituted. And since the late 19th century, both major Parties have been complicit with aiding the bankers.
        Take the blinders off, John, read this book and get started on learning some reality:
        http://mises.org/books/historyofmoney.pdf

        Mises has numerous informative books that they have made available free to those who wish to learn the benefits of Freedom. Please contribute to them, so they can continue their great work.

      • Cheryl

        Was that Obama that said he would bring our companies back to the US??? I think my 401K is in the red! I wonder if all those share /stock holders of all those companies – oh yes – and all those $40 mil dollar CEO’s – can sleep at night. We had better learn to speak Chinese. I was in a grocery store last week – picked up a small container of (FRESH?) sliced fruit (3 oz) – and guess what – it came from China! I love McDonald’s filet of fish – only thing I buy there – guess what? – I just found out the fish is processed AND seasoned in China. Wake up america – it’s only a healthy one world economy if EVERY country benefits!

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003309707389 Tom W.

      They don’t care Lyle! As long as someone besides them is!!!

      • eddie47d

        That was cleaver of Tom to change the subject to food stamps. LOL

  • http://personallibertydigest Lyle McDaniell

    There is no free lunch.. Who will pay for this boo boo .

    • FreedomFighter

      Why Obama thinks this will get him elected in 2012:

      http://www.safeshare.tv/v/fJuNgBkloFE

      Up to us to see it does not happen.

      Laus Deo
      Semper Fi

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003309707389 Tom W.

        You talkin’ bout the chicken man?! That was absolutely brutal FF! The PAIN, the PAIN!!!

      • FreedomFighter

        SBSS 13

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=kG_RvXPtIh8

        Personal Liberty to the prepared.

        Laus Deo
        Semper Fi

      • Old Henry

        FreedomFighter:

        That is a good presentation. I have been following Chris Duane for a while now. He makes a lot of sense as does Bix Weir.

        Yesterday afternoon I saw a couple of your posts from Wednesday in this format. How do you do that rather than the link that would go to a differnent window? Those George Carlin & Archie Bunker views were a hoot. I had forgotten just how raunchy George used to get.

      • FreedomFighter

        Not sure Henry, I think it was a fluke, Lucky I guess.

        Laus Deo
        Semper Fi

      • Tom W.

        Hey FF, please listen to me good, There is only one way in my opinion to be prepared for what is getting ready to happen, first of all if you haven’t accepted Jesus Christ as your persoanal Lord and Savior, I really don’t understand what in the HELL you’re waiting for!!! Do you think that all this crap is happening simutaniously by coinsidence?!! Or maybe you buy the line that if Bible prophecy is coming to pass it because men are engineering it to do such!!! If so, you seriously overestimate our intelligence! That peticular argument right there is the one that astounds me the most! How do you explain the natural disasters then?!! Do you believe that men can manipulate the weather and earthquakes also!!! You’d better get your sorry ass ready! To all my Christian brothers and sisters out there who may take offence at my language, please I’m trying to communicate at their level! You should have heard me before I was saved, the change in my language alone should be proof of my genuiness to anyone who knew me before! But you’d better know haw to live off the land, all those things that can’t help you survive are a waste of time!! Please notice in the verses here that prophesy of the times that we are living what they are doing with their silver and gold!!! Can you eat it?!!

        “Go to now, ye rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon you. Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are motheaten. Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days. Behold, the hire of the labourers who have reaped down your fields, which is of you kept back by fraud, crieth: and the cries of them which have reaped are entered into the ears of the Lord of sabaoth. Ye have lived in pleasure on the earth, and been wanton; ye have nourished your hearts, as in a day of slaughter. Ye have condemned and killed the just; and he doth not resist you. Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain. Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.” – James 5:1-8 (KJV)

        They shall cast their silver in the streets, and their gold shall be removed: their silver and their gold shall not be able to deliver them in the day of the wrath of the LORD: they shall not satisfy their souls, neither fill their bowels: because it is the stumblingblock of their iniquity.” – Ezikiel 7:19 (KJV)

        Read also Revelation chap. 18, could this be the US, are we not Material Babylon?!!

  • Tom Webber

    The one issue no one is talking about is that the last person who sold that house at a price well over its real value, gets to keep all his money. So we the tax payers have again funded greedy house-flippers and real estate speculators. Would that someone in the government realized that ‘trickle-economics’ is real. Money that is given away always ‘trickles UP’ to the un-working wealthy. Money that is earned the old fashioned way always ‘tricles DOWN’ to others who want to work hard.

    • Stephen

      If the price of the house was not FAIR, then the buyer should not have purchased it. Do not blame the seller for the governments mistakes in trying to tweak the mortgage system where failure and foreclosure would be the result. The government should get out of the way and let the system self-correct. They can not be the brokers of winners and losers.

      • Tom Webber

        The prices were not FAIR because the govt lured thousands of buyers into the market who would not normally be there with the promise of readily available money at NO risk. As a result many responsible people did refrain from buying during the bubble. But most of the buyers didn’t care what a fair price was because there was no risk, thus driving up the price. My only contention is that when the Govt offers free money, there are plenty of greedy parties out there that see an opportunity to ‘separate a fool from his money’. Hard work combines morality with profit. Free money always removes morality from the equation.

      • Flashy

        Errrr…yiu state the gov’t ‘lured’ people into the market. pray tell, what gun was held to the bank’s head to make the loan at such easy qualiying terms. (And no, the Community Reinvestment Act nor FNMA/Freddie forced the loans. That’s a dog that won’t hunt. It’s the typical untrue red herring by the Right.)

      • Ben

        Where have you been? There was a housing bubble! None of the prices were fair. I saw that first hand as I was building them.

      • John

        I.M.H.O., real estate brokers and appraisers are vastly accomplices in the housing problem we are having. Home prices where artificial inflated across the board by those shysters and the organization they build up in many regions forced people to use those outfits. Its a scam, and today you hear advertising to trust your realtor and they only have the best for the community on their minds..what a B.S. I will NEVER use a realtor again ever, I don’t support an industry that is build upon screwing people.

        • JimRed

          John, a full reply to your screed would be several pages long, so I’ll just touch a few key points.

          I am a licensed real estate broker, working in the business since 1985. One of the first concepts we were taught was MARKET VALUE. That is defined as the price a property would bring in negotiations between a willing seller and a willing buyer, neither under undue pressure. APPRAISALS are a method of determining market value, by (a) comparing the subject with recent proximate sold properties and (b) the cost to buy the land and build the house in that locality and under current economic conditions. The usual purpose of an appraisal is to determine the amount to be loaned against the property.

          A CMA, or market analysis is a short form of appraisal done by a real estate agent to determine an appropriate asking price (or to validate an offered price) for a property, and usually includes pricing on similar homes currently for sale (the competition).

          When I started in May 1985, the typical rate for a fixed 30 year was 14.5% with three points. By early fall of that year the rates had dropped into the mid-9% range. Suddenly many folks who could not afford to buy at all were qualified for a “starter”, and higher earning folks could afford to consider bigger, better or preferred location.

          That resulted in multiple offers and bidding wars in many cases (in our area, at least; the Jersey Shore’s reputation had not yet been sullied by Snooki and her crew).

          Competition for properties created a seller’s market, with higher closing prices resulting in higher appraisals and CMA’s. The market set the prices, not the Realtors or appraisers.

          Back then if a seller wanted to overprice their home, you’d still take the listing (if you could get it for a long enough time period) because the pricing would catch up eventually. In today’s market, our office manager compares overpricing to having to chase a bowling ball down a hill. You keep running (reducing price) but the only way to stop it is to get ahead of it. If they won’t price to the current market, I won’t waste my time.

          Yes, there were some crooked real estate agents and appraisers, but they were few and far between. Most of them were eventually caught and punished, and frankly the rest of us were glad to see them go.

          Like I said,it would take several pages, but I’ll stop here. Don’t use us, please! You might be one of the sellers who wants a cut commission, to overprice by 20% and a 30 day listing period, or the buyer who insists on a steal rather than a deal.

      • Dntmkmecmoverther

        @Flashy: Errrr, yes it is a pup that will, and DID hunt. It also crapped all over the housing market and industry. You might want to call your butt buddy Barney Frank and have him fill you in on the details of what began in the Clinton era and continued up through the latter Bush term as it applied to ‘stupidity measures’ in the lending laws as they applied to banks. It most certainly WAS a problem because it allowed financially inept people to put nothing down in large (15k-300k) mortgages. That is just plain stupid. When you don’t have a dog in the hunt, it’s simple to give up.

      • Flashy

        First…the CR Act (Community Reinvestment Act) was in place since the 70′s. Second, the dictates of the Act were that banks that have a presence in an geographical area had to report on how they reinvested in the area as a ratio of how much $$ they had from the area in savings, checking, CDs etc. Third, FNMA and Freddie didn’t get in “the game’ of risk mortgages until late. Yes…there should have been jail time for the officers, I will never argue that. fourth, to say one Congressman could have so much influence during a Repubican administration is coming close to being as real as saying there are green men on Mars. Frank did criticize the banks, but he had not the influence the Right desires to say he had.

        You want the real government culprits? Ask yourself this…where were the regulators? Why was the number of regulators slashed by the SEC and how did that agency become so politicized in the bush Administration.

      • Patty

        Flashy – Because Bush had a democratic congress that passed all of this.

      • http://www.mototcarsfinancial.com Brad

        Yea Flashy the CR Act was installed in the 70′s under the Carter administartion and Obamma has us headed over the same cliff Carter took us over. It took almost 2 decades to fix what Carter did to us.

      • kkflash

        Flashy, don’t presume to tell me about the CRA and what it did or didn’t do because I worked in the banking industry at that time. My company created products and services to assist banks with that compliance process, and I personally managed the development of those products and services. The teeth of the law was strengthened 5 times during the Clinton administration, and unquestionably, CRA contributed to a lot of loans being made that would not otherwise have been made. Whether it happened under Republicans or Democrats is of no consequence, because either way it’a a liberal government activity to meddle in the business of lending. Get government the hell out of the way, and American businesses will once again be able to compete on a world scale, and succeed or fail according to the skill of the business management, not the desires of some politician to redistribute the benefits of society to someone who hasn’t earned it.

      • tony

        Sorry Patty the legisltaion was passed by a Repub. congress & Bush…Turn off Fox & read some history

      • John

        JimReed,
        Sorry, but your self serving post won’t cut it …sane people are waking up to the real estate fraud by the brokers. Every time a property is sold, the price is inflated by the amount of brokerage fees. In our area it is 12%..sorry, the brokers don’t enough work to earn even 3%. It is a semi captive market slanted to enrich the brokers and darn the sellers or buyers… Personally, i don’t care how you feel about my post and that you feel you would need several pages to justify ripping of the citizen in this country. I sold property, and I bought property, and I do not deal with real estate brokers period… just as I don’t deal with bankers its cash or private financing. And yes, if that means I …gasp… get a cut throat deal, or don’t have to pay a broker ..well whats wrong with that? Oh I know, you don’t get “your” share of the pie that was never yours to start with.

      • Flashy

        KKf….forgive me for saying…I worked implementing the cmpliance procedures for CRA. When anyone blames the CRA for the housing collapse, that’s the first signal they know not what they speak. It is demonized because most people have no concetp what the CRA is, does, or monitors and it’s a conveneient scapegoat by banks etc to lay blame anywhere they can other than where it should be laid…at their doorstep.

        The issue that i have with the administration in the Housing Crisis is that a) no one went to jail or was indicted; and b) the programs put in place before this had no teeth, no enforcement, and were in essence gutted by the banks …

      • Patty

        Tony – I beg to differ. All of this was set in motion long before Bush II was ever president. PS I don’t have cable, so no FOX news. Save your breath.

    • Ryan

      Renovating a house and improving it’s quality and value is not easy work. And it improves the lives of the people who buy those home from them because it saves the new homeowner the trouble of having to do the renovations themselves to have a decent or great home. I would say that it is a great way to earn money and House-Flippers shouldn’t be demonized.

      • Tom Webber

        Contractors who renovate houses for re-sale are not flippers. My best friend is such a contractor. But buying houses to hold for 6 months and the resell for double the price with no intent to improve — thats house-flipping.

      • Allan

        Dear Tom,

        In a free market (I know, our markets are now FAR from free unfortunately), there is legitimate risk in assuming you can buy a house and 6 months to 2 years later sell it for MORE than you paid for it, as the purchasers sometime after 2006 learned. I think all people should be responsible for their decisions.

      • Joe H

        Ryan,
        you better tell HGTV that then. they have a half dozen “FLIPPING” shows where they buy the house repair it , sell it within 3 to 4 months and it IS called flipping a house!! during the bubble, people made millions doing it!! the biggest thing they try to avoid is paying any more mortgage payments than they absolutly HAVE TO! There are also dozens of books on the market detailing how to go about it!

      • Joe H

        Sorry, that answer should be addressed to Tom Weber.

    • Michael J.

      Tom Webber,
      Previous owner sold house for what the market would bear.
      BTW, wealthy people are not non-workers, it must be the entitlement sponges that you are thinking of.

      • Tom Webber

        Pardon the misrepresentation. MOST wealthy people ARE hardworking. But you must admit there is a segment of the wealthy who are amoral and non-working. They only plot ways to get at the wealth that others have aquired, or worse yet, get at the resources of people going through hard times. I’m sure you can think of some of these.

      • DonnieB

        Right On!!

      • Ted Crawford

        I’m sure you are right Tom, they probably number something under 10% of the Amoral, unworking entitlement people currently draining our Treasury!

      • DaveH

        So what’s your solution, Tom. More Government to offset the problems created by too much Government?

      • Michael J.

        Tom Webber,
        Greed is evenly dispersed amongst the ranks of the haves and have-not’s. There is no direct linkage however between amoral characters and the non-workers. (Screwing less monetarily endowed others for financial gain is hard work)

      • Tom Webber

        Nope not more goverment. I think if you read all my entries, the real problem is all the free money. Stop the free money and you’ll greatly decrease all the opportunism that it creates.

      • Dntmkmecmoverther

        @Tom Webber: Tom, you are describing the incumbent democrats in the house and senate…I’m sure you already knew that :-)

      • Eddie47d

        Sure there is too much government but let’s not forget how much the Banksters control us and even when they screw up they still come out ahead. They are also stealing other peoples money and all homeowners sometime in their life have to deal with those banks. Throw Mortgage companies and slick realtors into the mix and the private entities are the bigger cons.

      • DaveH

        The banksters can’t control anything, Eddie, without being backed up by the Force of the Government. It all starts with Government.

      • Alfred P

        DaveH. I notice eddie is always against bankers and anyone who makes any money in the stock market. I cannot help but wonder just how much he has lost through bad investments caused by him not properly researching them.

      • kkflash

        Do my eyes deceive me, or am I hearing some professed liberals on this site agree with the notion that government is the problem, not the solution?

      • eddie47d

        We see that the government is the problem but the banksters are an even greater problem. Whether government controlled or private systems. Corporates react to government and government react to Corporates. It’s not one or the other.

      • http://gravatar.com/hattles JeffH

        Thank you DaveH for stating the obvious. eddie really shouldn’t use words he doesn’t understand…but he does! :)

      • Joe H

        Tom,
        you mean those blood suckers that are on welfare, second generation, and those people on social security disability that work on the side to collect a good wage under the table AREN’T greedy??? Remember now, before you answer, that’s YOUR money they are taking, every time!! those rich are only taking from a few while THOSE blood suckers take from EVERYONE!!!

      • DaveH

        Remember that when you lose your money to the Rich, you lose it voluntarily. When you lose money to Big Government, you have no choice.

    • Patty

      No one made anyone purchase a home or re-finance a home to get the equity out of it but the person who was greedy and wanted to live above their means. Let them get foreclosed on and live in the SUV they purchased with the equity from their home. I am done paying for fools. It is high time people understood the difference between a WANT and a NEED. The saddest part about this is the amount of people out there that did this.
      We all know someone in this boat. But they dangled the money in front of me, it was so easy, I didn’t realize or understand…..excuses, all of them. And no, I don’t let them get away with it. I tell them exactly how stupid they were and don’t feel a bit sorry for 1 of them. While they were out on their Disney vacation, I didn’t take one. When they were out to dinner 3 nights a week, I ate at home, while they were trading their cars in every 2-3 years, I drove the same one, while they upgraded their entire family to the latest and greatest cell phones, I kept my old one. And now, they want me to bail their sorry butts out and feel bad for them? Not going to happen. A true reflection of where this country is going and the educational system.
      For most 2 + 2 seems to equate to spending 8.

    • Pete0097

      A lot of the house flippers also got stuck with houses that dropped in value after they bought the house. In addition, they got stuck with the contracts to fix the house up, but it is not worth the repair cost., which he has to do in order to be able to sell it. Some got out at the right time and held onto their money and are now able to start flipping again, but they are now caught in the bank loan acceptance issues where they question every dollar you get to an outragious degree. We had to justify Christmas bonuses, refunds of deposits, etc just to get a mortgage.

      • Tom Webber

        That’s absolutely correct! Its miserable being at the bottom of a pyramid in a pyramid scheme. Just ask all of Madoff’s client that were at the bottom.

      • kkflash

        In the good ol’ days of banking, mortgage lending was a very low-risk proposition, because people wouldn’t leave the lender holding the bag just because the deal they made on their house turned out not to be a good investment for them. I can’t blame lenders for tightening the requirements to qualify for a loan. In fact, I find it very hypocritical that the same government that pushed the banks into easy mortgage policies with government-backed no-down payment programs, and regulations (CRA) that encouraged unsound lending, is now regulating again to tighten lending rules on those same banks. All this would have been avoided if government would just mind their own business, and quit trying to control the free market system.

      • Flashy

        KKF…for somene who claims worked with the banking industry, you need to explain how the Subprime and Alt-A market, loans that did not carry government backed insurance, are stated by you to be government backed insured.

        To me…the change came sometime around the early part of the Bush Admin. People used to make money to buy a home. It switched when Glass Steagall was rescinded and the number of regulators were slashed, the remianing politicized. It then became people bought a house to make money.

      • Joe H

        Flushy,
        Hate to burst your bubble, but as much as I dislike Bush, it is FACT that he tried to warn of the problems with the bubble and fanny and freddies part in it and was told that there was no problem!! By your good buddies bawney and dirty Harry!!

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003309707389 Tom W.

      If nobody has ever heard of him, his name is Lydon La Rouche and he has been trying to warn people of this collapse since at least the mid-80′s probably earlier. He has run for POTUS a couple of times on the Libertarian ticket and has even done time in sing-sing on what some claim to be trumped up IRS related problems. But of course he was written off as a conspiracy theory nut and nobody listened to a word that he said!

      http://larouchepac.com/larouche

      • DaveH

        Tom,
        I wish people would quit spreading that manure. Lyndon LaRouche has never run on the Libertarian ticket.
        Read this, please, from your own site:
        http://larouchepac.com/node/14747

      • Tom W.

        I’m sorry if I insulted anyone with MY lack of knowledge on anything! I thought I could shoot from the hip on that one, silly me!!! That doesn’t change the fact that Lyndon ran for president several times, one time I believe, (I’m shooting from the hip here again! Gotta get back on that horse!!!) on one of the major tickets, I wish I had enough nads to guess, but I really can’t remember. Probably Democratic though, he holds FDR as some kinda god!!!

      • DaveH

        I don’t care if you erroneously state Lyndon is running for President, but I do care if you say he’s a Libertarian. Lyndon LaRouche is about as far from Libertarian as a man can get:
        http://larouchepac.com/node/21622

        Did you hear him say anything about our Real Problem — Big Government?
        Notice he cites FDR — the worst President in our country’s history.
        OMG, and Lincoln also — another of the worst.

        You aren’t the first I’ve heard spreading that Libertarian rumor about LaRouche. I think it’s purposeful Propaganda (not necessarily on your part, Tom) to give Libertarians a bad name. Crony Capitalists and their Crony Politicians are scared to death of Libertarian Free Market philosophy. With Free Markets, no company would be immune from failure if they didn’t please the consumers — as it should be.

    • kkflash

      Your envy is showing and it’s unbecoming as always…

      • FreedomFighter

        Lyndon LaRouche: The Face of Evil

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pGSNYe5TRY

        Sunshine kills trolls, here comes the sun!

        Laus Deo
        Semper Fi

      • Tom W.

        Deet n de de, here comes the sun, and I said, it’s alright de de de de, de de de, de de de de de!!!

  • http://httpaol.com sean murrey ILLInio

    who is going to pay for this? US.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003309707389 Tom W.

      The 1%!!!

    • CLYDE CROW JR

      OF COURSE.WE WORK FOR SOMEBODY ELSE

  • The truth

    Wow, what an interesting but inaccurate article. First of all, nome of the loans covered are owned by investment funds, 401ks, or pension funds. 100 percent are owned by the banks who is losing every penny in the deal. Second, the title itself misses one important fact. Couple 1 DOES get a sweet deal. They receive an interest rate reduction as a reward for being responsible. Interesting omission. That’s right folks, the author must have stopped reading the settlement when it talked about the almost $4 billion of the deal that goes to the Couple 1′s out there. I could go on pointing out the blatant misrepresentations but this seems like enough.

    • Ryan

      Artificially lowering the interest rates to reward borrowing money to buy a house. Sounds awefully like reinflating the housing bubble to solve the problem with the burst of the last housing bubble. It’s obvious we shouldn’t reward people who made bad decisions but why should the taxpayer, via the federal government, reward people who are good with their mortgages? Isn’t being a homeowner the reward they are looking for by paying their bills? This is just a way to buy votes with other people’s money.

      • Eddie47d

        The banks and mortgage companies shafted the home buyer (taxpayer) when they deployed all their fancy financing. (ARM’s for one). They are responsible for the housing bubble and do need to adjust the interest rates for those home buyers. Either that or have them go to jail for their ponzi schemes.

      • kkflash

        Eddie, an ARM is just as legitimate a mortgage as a fixed rate loan. The terms and even the effect of interest rate changes are clearly spelled out in the loan documents. It is not a banker’s fault if a home buyer chooses the adjustable rate loan and then rates and payments increase. Every borrower had the opportunity to take a fixed-rate loan instead, so why is it “shafting” the customer to offer both options?

      • Flashy

        KKF…good point on the ARMs. Let me ask a follow up. When one took out a 5/1 ARM for the lower rate and knowing in five yearss they’ll make a little more money and can switch to a fixed 30 … then the rules changed in four years to where only the cream would be able to refinance. Then that same bank…receiving payments on time for four years, decided the borrower was no longer qualified for a better deal.

        Who’s fault should that be?

      • eddie47d

        Because banks and mortgage companies sold a product that wasn’t honest. It was more of a bait and switch to reel the buyer in. Naturally the homeowner could afford an ARM at the time but not the fixed so they jumped quickly on the bad choice. The bank got the money whether the homeowner stayed in the house or lost it. Nothing more than a con game no matter how “legal” it was.

      • kkflash

        Flashy, I’m sure that, as liberals always do, you’d like to shift the blame in your example for a borrower’s inability to qualify for a new loan to someone else, but as usual, your thinking is twisted. Market conditions, rates, regulations, and qualifications are constantly changing and a bank is under no obligation, morally or legally, to assure a borrower that they’ll be able to refinance at some unknown future date. In fact, I’m sure there is some obscure federal regulation that prohibits them from doing so. If the borrower didn’t want the risk of not being able to refinance in the future, they should have taken the fixed rate loan. Your position is so typical of liberals, wanting to pass personal responsibility for their own choices, even their cost of living, to someone else.

      • Flashy

        First, i disagree with Eddie as to the worthiness of ARMs. They are a good product when utilized as they are meant to be. KKF…I would assume that anyone who sees their position unchanged, as to income, credit scores etc…and having the assurances at the time the ARM was given they would be able to refi out after the fixed period, would tend to believe the bank representative.

        Now we both know the sales techniques would have them assure the borrowers the sky will be any color they want if they did the loan. but the banks changed the rules in mid stream, and who were credit worthy one year, after maing payments on time for a year..no longer are considered good risks the next by the same bank?

        Banks are under an obligation since the Obama admin to legitimaize every loan that goes through the coffers. In the case where the guidelines have tightened, and the guidelines now longer qualify the borrower, they can manually underwrite the loan and conduct ‘common sense” underwriting and legitimize the deal as a in-house refi with clean payment history.

        Thing is..the holding banks see a clean payment history, the adjustment of the rate to increase profits, and won’t refinance. They make a few shekels servicing the loan, and th higher rate for servicers, the better the overall profit. Outside lenders won’t touch the loan because they want only the cream of the cream.

        Now…do you want to discuss the banking industry? Let’s have at it.

      • Patty

        Eddie47 – Chronolgically, the housing bubble pretty much went like this: Carter (who is now involved w/Habitat for Humanity) started the ball rolling. Clinton wanted every person to have the American Dream(home ownership). In order to do this, lending regulations got in the way. Therefore, Clinton repealed the Glass-Segal Act so that banks could lend to high risk people. Barney Frank heads the commitee that oversees the F & F Macs. Barneys lover is 1 of the top dogs at one of the Macs. HE is the one that came up with the creative financing of ARMS and other loan vehicles of which he made millions in salary and bonus’ from whichever Mac he worked for (see site). http://foro.univision.com/t5/Dem%C3%B3cratas/Barney-Frank-s-Homosexual-Lover-Herb-Moses-Was-a-Senior/td-p/288192498 When Bush tried to get a different department to audit and oversee Fannie & Freddie, Frank had a fit. He knew how much he was prospering from this whole scam.

      • Joe H

        flushy,
        Let me ask you a question. If you go to the bank today to buy a house and they tell you that you don’t make enough to qualify for a starter home, and two years later, you go in to try again, your income has not risen any but the bank now tells you that you can qualify for a larger home, are you NOT going to question that??? Careful there Flushy cause if you say no then you are even a bigger fool than I could ever think you to be!!

      • Flashy

        Joe..so I have this correct. Two years ago they said no, nothing changed, now they say yes. Would I question that.

        I would probably ask if it was because I showed two more years of stable income, employment, and ability and willingness to pay my bills on time. The passage of two years would be a good indication I was a lower risk than what the profile showed two years previous.

        In other words, the passing of two years would lower the risk exposure with an extended track record, not increase the risk.

      • Flashy

        Patty…not exactly accurate.

        before the CRA, banks would have a branch in a neighborhood, take deposits, CDs etc from the locals, and not make home loans in the area and have the money used elsewhere. Red lining is the term. The CRA said ‘uh uh”. you take monies by depositors living in an area, you cannot “red line” and not reinvest in the area which these people live. So, banks were barred from red lining an area. loans had to be made on criteria which was objective and gave each property the same treatment. The CRA was also the reporting tool which has banks send in reports showing the number of dpositors in a certain area, the amounts from the area, the number of home loan apps, the number approved, etc etc etc. It does not, and never has, forced banks to make a home loan.

        Repeal of Glass Steagall. Did you notice the drafters as well as sponsors of the bill which repealed Glass Steagall? yes, i do fault Clinton for not veto’ing the bill. But one has to recall he was under fire from the Inquisition of Herr Starr and the GOP rat pack. However, it was signed and the wall between banking and investment houses dropped. What is noteworthy however, is that the number of regulators and auditors at the SEC went UP. Thus, there was a number of sheriffs making sure the actions of the banking industry were on the up and up.

        Then came Bush II. The number of SEC regulators and auditors plummeted. As with almost ever other agency, the SEC also became politicized (just ask Martha Stewart). The banks went wild in creating instruments which they had no idea what the instruments actually were or did. There are many on record comments form nay in the banking industry stating that. A good book on the subject is “Liars Poker” which explains how the secondary MBS market cme to be. Unbelievable.

        The marekt exploded with these new instruments. And the money came rolling in. not just a decent amount of money…huge amounts. Huge. And the SEC could not, did not, would not stop and take a look at what was going on. To this day, I cannot figure out how or why people haven’t gone to jail (I blame the Obama admin on that one).

        now we come to the Big Lie and Barney Frank/Chris Dodd. When FNMA and Freddie saw the obscene profits made in the MBS market and Subprime and AltA loans, they wanted in. not only Frank and Dodd, but a significant number of Congress was supporting the move. There were a few who made cautionary statements, but for the most part…everyone was saying “why not”? Barney frank and Chris Dood are villianized because they are the Right’s targets. not because either did anything unusual in regards to everyone else. And yes, Barney Frank should have shut up.

        What occurred was that FNMA and Freddie did not insure Subprime/AltA loans, but they invested in buying the pools of Mortgage Backed Securities which were secured by those loans. that’s an imortant distinction..they did not insure the loans, but the charters were amended to allow them to invest via purchasing the securities securing the investments.

        The other important distinction was FNMA/Freddie came into the game late just before the Crash came. There are two differing views and rumors attached to this. the first and most popular (though maybe not the most accurate) is that they saw greed, there were connections with Congress, and they made very very bad investment decisions…allowed by Barney Frank and the top officers made a killing in the tens of millions of dollars in salary bonuses.

        The other is that Wall street/Bush II saw the crash coming in a year, could not pull back because of the massive amount fo exposure and likelihood several of the Big banks would fail, and could not pull out without without causing a crash and economic crisis, so they cut a deal with FNMA and Freddie to allow them to buy into the markket, prop it up with their vast cash reserves, and hoped it would be able to slowly fall…or any crisis would be put off until post 2008 election.

        My own opinion? Both theories are correct. i have a very difficult time beliving the banks did not know a year or so ahead of timje what was going to occur and they wanted the risk passed on to the public, and Bush II was more than willing to do that. The fall was to be delayed until after the election (dam* those Europeans who called AIG to the table for payment on MBS going bad), and I think Congress saw the housing boom and went along with it for political purposes, not thinking it through as to what was coming down the pike unless the pressure was relieved.

        Now….what the right and the financial ghurus on wall Street are not talking up, and what i believe is the main reason it came to a crash, was the SEC’s “wink and nod” at the whole schebang.

        The number of auditors and regulators gutted, those remaining were industry insiders or never pressing for the information (more than enough sworn testimony acknowleging they feared for their jobs had they pushed for or questioned the information). And the wolves went wild in the sheep pen.

        When the regulations went away, then is the time to increase oversight of the remaining regulations. Not decrease oversight and toss out all the existing remaining rules with the discarded ones.

        • Patty

          Flashy-Boy, you say a whole lot of nothing. The bottom line is, Clinton made a promise that every American should be able to own a home. HE wanted Glass-Segal repealed because it was the only thing (those darn bank regs) in the way of him being able to make good on his promise. Because with those regs in place, those people NEVER would have qualified for a loan. He is the one who let the fox in the chicken coup. Yes, it was a republican congress that put it together to appease him and reach across the isle to get along. The bottom line is and has always been that the only thing the gov’t. does is make for 1 big FUBAR. And now, we know the result of gov’t. meddling in the private sector. As if the writing wasn’t already on the wall.

    • Michael

      Doesn’t that assume the the home owners are both working and have good credit.

    • http://gravatar.com/winder50 winder50

      Truth, you need to go back and research what the settlement says. I was like you and thought that it only applied to people who were current on their loans, but I went back and did a little more research, and Chip is right, the principal reductions go to people who are behind. I agree with Chip, that is not incentivizing people to be responsible, but to renege on their obligations. Is that what this country is going towards?

      • Patty

        Is that where this country is headed? Have no doubt. Just look at the 99%ers.

    • lueder

      I think what he was saying is that the monies that are being “put up” by the 5 big banks are coming from their employees retirement funds, at least that is how I understood it.

      • Flashy

        LOL …. i doubt the banks will use their employee pension funds. You think they can’t afford it?

      • Ted Crawford

        According to the original artical on this deal, the banks themselves will pay between $5 &$7 Billion, the emaining $18 to $20 Billion will come from any, not just employees, Annuities, 401Ks or Murual Funds managed by those banks! That means yours and mine!

      • Flashy

        So…if i get this correct..you’re stating the banks are going to breach fiduciary duties to 401s, pensions etc and have them foot the majority of the settlement bill?

        Or are the 401s, pensions etc as the holders of the MSBs going to get stung by short payioffs on the bonds and securities scured by these loans, and the banks then taking on defending against that class action lawsuit ?

      • Dntmkmecmoverther

        @Lueder: No, not taking it from pension funds; but borrowing as in the capital created in their investment pools; which in turn will mean significantly lower return on investment from their 401K initiative. So in essence, you might say that the 401k did in essence ‘pay’ for the initial 5 billion from each of these banks (the cash has to come from their investment portfolio…unless they begin printing money on their own!)

      • Eddie47d

        That should be a warning then for all investors to not trust the banks. They set up the bundling of mortgages and sold them worldwide and even were given a AAA rating. The pay off was made and the unsuspecting investors and mortgage buyers got the shaft. There is guilt written all over this mortgage scam and the trail leads back to the banks.

      • Patty

        Eddie – It was Fannie and Freddie that bundled those sub primes to investors. http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9RLP51O0.htm

      • kkflash

        Eddie & Patty: Actually you’re both right. The commercial banks bundled and sold mortgages, Fannie & Freddie rebundled and sold mortgage-backed securities, investment banks rebundled MBS’s and sold collateralized debt obligations, and bigger shysters rebundled CDO’s into more leveraged CDO’s, with each repackager taking their cut along the way. By the time you get to the 4th derivative level, even a tiny change in the default rate on the underlying mortgages produces gigantic losses. So, when housing prices stopped rising due to overbuilding, and people decided to walk away rather than pay the agreed-upon payments, economic collapse. All the repackaging would not have been possible though without the government (that’s taxpayers) backing from FNMA/FHLMC. So, once again, government meddling in a free-market system is to blame.

      • Flashy

        KKF…i would agree except the part the MBS market would not have been but for FNMA and Freddie. Would you agree that FNMA and Freddie got into the MBS market because they saw huge profits being made and wanted to jump in for a share of those profits, thus skirted the very rules that had made them known for quality Prime loans?

        The Subprime and Alt A markets were well established before FNMA/Freddie got into the game.

      • kkflash

        No Flashy, I wouldn’t agree that Fannie & Freddie got into the mortgage market because they wanted a piece of the profits being made. They are government agencies that got into the market because the libs wanted everyone to own a house, and for that they needed a vast secondary market for mortgages, which they assured by giving the loans government backing.

        Also, your insinuation that sub-prime and Alt-A loans were responsible for the mortgage crisis is also unfounded. Fannie & Freddie ended up on the hook for billions of $ in mortgage defaults on standard conforming loans. That’s what brought down the house.

    • http://yahoo joe matovich

      Thank you for the insight into this bill[deal] it’s very hard these days to find a reporter or blogger who dosen’t have an agenda.
      seems all of America has gone crazy. but maybe that’s the plan.

      • Flashy

        you think Chip or this site doesn’t have an agenda? I’m not dissing it…but I would certainly not make such a statement as this being an agenda free site.

      • DaveH

        Yep, Chip has an agenda — pro people, anti Government meddlers. Quite the opposite of Flashman’s typical comment.

      • Eddie47d

        The Banksters were anything but pro-people! They were the Pied Piper’s who lured investors and hombuyers into their lare. Sure it was citizens who fell for the deal that was too good to be true but why aren’t the Banksters sitting in jail,like normal crooks are? I would say that restitution to the people they shafted should be even greater. The Banksters committed the crime and they should be the ones to do the time not the homeowners!

      • Joe H

        well gee, Flushy, if you can do better why don’t you start your OWN site??? Or would you admit that Mr. Livingston has THAT all over you??? Remember Flushy those that can, DO. Those that can’t try to TEACH!

      • Flashy

        Joe..i’m not dissing it. As i said.

        but to state there is not agenda or reason is to be totally blind. I’m not critixzing the site nor it’s reason for existence. bob livingston is very open and clear about it…the site is to push the Conservative agenda. i have no issue with having the reasons/agenda exist.

      • DaveH

        Don’t even try to compare yourself to Bob Livingston, Flashman. Bob is a knowledgeable honest person. You are just a Liberal Troll who is here to spread misinformation and other Liberal manure.

    • DaveH

      Truth, how can you expect us to give your comment credence when right off the bat you accuse Chip of saying something he didn’t?
      Chip said “And they’re using other people’s money to pay for a ton of this. Pension funds, 401(k)s and mutual funds are going to pick up a lot of the load”.
      He didn’t say anything about the ownership of the affected loans. In fact, the implication was just the opposite.
      And when you’re accusing somebody of making erroneous claims, the intelligent readers here expect you to provide some references.

    • Patty

      @ The Truth-You couldn’t be more wrong. http://esl.about.com/od/businessreading/a/Bundled-Mortgages-Reading.htm
      Those mortgages were bundled to investors. Not only that, Fanny and Freddie lied about how toxic those mortgages were to try to dump them. Why do you think they are being bailed out? The banks said, if you don’t give us our money back on these toxic mortgagfes we will go public. http://bizfinance.about.com/od/currentevents/a/Recession.htm
      Get informed.

    • DAVE

      Ummmmmmmmmmmm,
      sorry but that’s not the case. The banks could not write enough loans to satisfy the demand of investment bankers to slice and dice them and sell them as collateralized debt obligations. that’s what really caused the worst of the problem.

  • Scott

    He is bribing the downtrodden and using tax payers dollars to do it.
    He made a deal and paid off the banks who will relieve the debts and the people will love him for it. People are like sheep and will and follow any one who pretends to be a shepherd. Obama is disgusting. Our nation will fall just like Rome. It is just a matter of time. Revolution is the only way out. I am not suggesting violent revolution although it might come to that. It is time for America to wake up and listen to God.

    • http://www.residualmoola.com Bill

      Obummer’s just doing anything he can to get past the election. The problems will escalate in 2013 to the point where radical changes will have to come. Hold on to your wallet, and as we say in Maryland, “Welcome to Maryland, we have a tax for that”.

    • Flashy

      What taxpeyer monies are being used? I don’t believe any … do you have information this is government money? First anyone has heard that if such is the case.

      • DaveH

        Whenever one class of people are given a break, the rest of us pay the bill. There are no money trees.

      • Don T

        Hey flash, the Gov. doesn’t earn money, it all comes from the tax payer, you probably wouldn’t know anything about that though !

      • Patty
      • Nadzieja Batki

        Where do you think the money comes from for the goverment to get it and disperse it?
        It is simply that all banks are now government entitities.The homes that are foreclosed or to be foreclosed are or will be owned by banks which are owned by the government. So this will lead or has already led to no private property ownership in the United States. The proverbial camel in the tent is almost totally in except for the tail.

    • DaveH

      Here is a comprehensive critique of the Mortgage Settlement. Be sure to follow the link to his original article on February 5th:
      http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2012/02/more-on-the-role-of-second-liens-and-the-mortgage-settlement-as-stealth-bank-bailout.html

      • Patty

        Sorry Dave, didn’t see your post. Yours is better.

      • Flashy

        DaveH..as the link you provided stated..they didn’t read the Settlement and only know the terms from a discussion group. It will take a few weeks to figure out what the settlement really states and the ramifications thereof. You do a great disservice to truth and honesty by stating anythng but the bare profile layout of the settlement.

      • DaveH

        Here are the details that have been offered about the Mortgage Settlement:
        http://www.nationalmortgagesettlement.com/about

        And Flashman, you are so transparent. Only Ignorant Liberal Zealots would give any credence to your personal attacks. The rest of us know you’re here solely to harass good people.

      • Joe H

        DaveH,
        yup, his stuff still highly stinks but lately it’s getting a little watery!!! Getting a little weak kneed is my guess!!1

  • Sirian

    There is a very simple answer to this problem – as long as Obummer is in office things will not improve. Without doubt, proven day by day, we are heading down the tubes, financial or otherwise and the puppet we have been skillfully duped into electing for our President holds the least amount of concern. His primary objective will be achieved – destroy the United States of America.

  • Den

    Fire every single one of them!

    • http://yahoo joe matovich

      Agreed.! in november i’ll help clean house.

      • John

        I believe, November will be a rude awakening to many…. and at this point, it still can go either way.

      • Joe H

        Anybody hear about our lonely governor of Ohio pulled his support from Romney today and went over to Santorum? Also romney only beat R.Paul by a couple of hundred votes in Mass(?). hopefully it is good bye mitt!!

  • StreekyD

    When the reward is great, the effort to succeed is great, but when government takes all the reward away, no one will try or want to succeed.

    An economics professor made a statement that he had never failed a single student before, but had recently failed an entire class. That class had insisted that Obama’s socialism worked and that no one would be poor and no one would be rich, a great equalizer.

    The professor then said, “OK, we will have an experiment in this class on Obama’s plan. All grades will be averaged and everyone will receive the same grade so no one will fail and no one will receive an A (substituting grades for dollars — something closer to home and more readily understood by all).”

    After the first test, the grades were averaged and everyone got a B. The students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little were happy. As the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free ride too so they studied little.

    The second test average was a D! No one was happy.

    When the third test rolled around, the average was an F.

    As the tests proceeded, the scores never increased as bickering, blame and name-calling all resulted in hard feelings, and no one would study for the benefit of anyone else.

    To their great surprise, ALL FAILED and the professor told them that socialism would also ultimately fail because when the reward is great the effort to succeed is great, but when government takes all the reward away, no one will try or want to succeed.
    It could not be any simpler than that.

    Remember, there IS a test coming up — the 2012 elections.

    These are possibly the five best sentences you’ll ever read, and all applicable to this experiment:

    1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.

    2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.

    3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.

    4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it!

    5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation.

    Can you think of a reason for not sharing this? Neither could I.

    • Flashy

      i call BS on this. Plain and simple. Post the link providing sources.

      • w s

        Flashy, you are too funny!! Why post a link to prove the point of what is most likely an anecdotal story. All you need to do is watch Europe…so much for socialism.

      • http://www.mototcarsfinancial.com Brad

        Even if the story is made up Flashy are you too stupid to understand the truth to the consequinces of the analogy??

      • Flashy

        If there was any truth to it … it’s just plain silliness and beyond any sort of recognizable rationale.

      • Dntmkmecmoverther

        @Flashy: Here’s a link you’ll understand: compare Stalin’s USSR. Compare current day Greece. Compare current day France for how socialism ‘works’. If by ‘works’ you mean that it destroys exceptionalism and personal motivation to succeed, and that is your goal, then Flashy, you are correct; in your world, socialism ‘works’. However, in the world of this blog and its attendees, we are not looking for a device to demolish and sabotage success and handwork; on the contrary, we would like to have the government back off and out of our lives. Taking money from my hard earned income to support and enable sloth of those who either refuse to work or are poor at what they do, is no way to economic freedom.

      • Nadzieja Batki

        You are completely without common sense.

      • DaveH

        Here is “silly”:
        http://personalliberty.com/2012/01/25/your-choice-ron-paul-or-a-wheelbarrow/#comment-716115
        PL’s system is acting up, so if the link doesn’t take you directly to my comment, just enter this in your browser’s find field — “Flashy has no credibility”. Then follow the thread.

        Summary:
        Flashman pretends to have great knowledge about long-distance shooting. His comment is full of ignorant mistakes that any Physics major and/or Geometer could easily spot. But as it turns out the comments weren’t even his. He Plagiarized from an obscure article on the web whose female researcher got her information — not from any real long-distance Snipers , but from some guys at a local gun club. I can only guess what was going on with those guys:
        1) They were the all-too-common type of shooters who love to pretend they know things that they don’t really (kind of like Flashman). Or,
        2) They were just pulling her chain purposely to get her goat.

      • eddie47d

        Yes the Liberals should make a greater attempt to tame big government and they do a poor job of it. Yet here we have another Conservative blaming everything on Socialism without even a nod to the Capitalists who jerry rigged the mortgage fiasco. The Banks are Capitalists,the Mortgage companies are Capitalists, Realitors are Capitalists, quick selling flippers are Capitalists,Payday Loan companies where those homebuyers short on cash go to are Capitalists,Builders who overbuilt are Capitalists. When are Capitalists going to take responsibility for what they created,nurtured,made buckets of money off of and then dumped it into the laps of the consumers and then go begging for government bailouts. If you want Capitalism to work then tame the monster that you endorsed and allowed to flourish. The Conservative side is also as blind as Helen Keller

      • Pete NY

        Like Beauty, a ‘recognizable rationale’ is in the eye of the beholder.

      • kkflash

        Flashy, there’s nothing in this story that is BS. It simply illustrates a fact about human nature that you liberals, and your penultimate colleagues the socialists, refuse to acknowledge. Given the choice between doing what they deem best for themselves, and doing what is best for others to their own detriment, they will most often choose themselves. This fact about human nature is what makes it so easy for politicians to buy votes with very tiny direct benefits to voters. Most of the voters can’t see past their own bank account to see the economic harm that government redistribution does to everyone that has to pay for it.

      • http://gravatar.com/hattles JeffH

        eddie, still have no clue do you? In your world a Crony-capitalist = capitalist…and you make it very clear that you are a socialist as in your undeniable effort to defend socialism.
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fL6wbsGx9qw

    • Dara

      @StreekyD

      I hope you don’t mind awfully much… but I’ve copied your comment, to share w/others – who need a simple explaination of why

      Socialism
      Does
      Not
      Work

      Thanks

  • tim

    obummer will do anything for votes. And whats the deal, the money that’s reduced just goes back to the banks. And guess what banks , fannie and freddie. All thier doing is propping up fannie and freddie so they might be able to show a profit. Let’s not forget thier millions of dollars in bonuses!!!! Once again the real homeowner gets FU(KED and the welfare recipient gets the money!!!!

    • Flashy

      1. Obama had nothing to do with the settlement, though you seem to be quck to blame him for the deal with the states.

      2. What taxpayer money?

      3. whether the big banks are self-refinancing the principal reduced loans or not remains to be seen. It may well be a deconcentration of mortgages away from the big 5 and more for the mid sized and smaller banks. As in..your credit union and state banks.

      4. you have a problenm with FNMA and Freddie balancing their books without more infusion of taxpayer monies?

      • http://www.mototcarsfinancial.com Brad

        Flashy, So Obama had nothing to do with it huh??

        I bet he will be quick to take all the credit when it comes around to election time.

      • Flashy

        He may. It’s an election year. You also criticizing those Republicans who voted against the stimulus, yet were crowding to get in the photo op when the project came to thier district?

        Obama may take credit for it. In a way, he should. You think the banks would have done the settlement if there was no pressure from the fed side urging the states and the banks to come to an agreement?

      • Patty

        Flashy-It was Bush who did the 700 billion bail out. https://goldsilver.com/article/Bush-team-Congress-negotiate-700B-bailout/

      • John

        Although i don’t like Obama and a lot of his policies, i have to say I always laugh at some of the posts on here and other sides…
        The US right will:
        Call him childish names, and make up stories about him, quote him out of context, and wants others to believe that Obama is almighty…. That he personally is directing and supervising every little aspect of this country…even if it was in the works for the last 10 years…and he never heard about. Government largely runs by itself, the same people working under a republican administration are working unter a democrat administration…and most agencies care less who is at the helm
        The posters believe that every decision the president makes is made in a total vacuum and that people like the military, congress, law enforcement, CIA,FBI and whatever have no input at all.
        In their obsessive compulsive hate most don’t even realize how insane they sound. They point to actions and happenings that they say Obama could have stopped, without to even consider he had no knowledge about..
        People are so consumed with their hate and dislike that common sense and reason are being thrown out. And the rest of the world looks at this and ponders how in hell the US ever made it out of the stone ages.

      • Flashy

        Patty..that was TARP I which gave the money away without any conditions. You are correct. The banks creid it wan’t enough. So TARP II was under President Obama, who did have conditions. Hard ones. And lo and behold…the banks hardly touched it.

      • Patty

        So Flashy, Obama doubles down on a bad Bush policy. That would make him Bush III.

      • eddie47d

        Well said John and we all come back to this Insane Asylum of doublespeak.

      • Flashy

        No Patti…obama said “fine, you need the cash, here it is. Now here are the conditions. No kore free money”. And the banks said “ummm, you know…we looked at everything again and we really don’t need the money “

        • Patty

          Actually, the strings were too long on the money. Obama wanted to not only regulate but take stock ownership in their banks. “An AP story quotes community bankers who do not want the Treasury Department or other federal agencies to own stock in their banks. They know the regulatory takeover risk that will come with this program. Next thing you know, the government will order banks to make unaffordable mortgages available to low-income folks, or perhaps force business loans on the basis of race or gender.”
          http://www.realclearmarkets.com/articles/2010/09/28/tarp_ii_banks_and_business_dont_want_it_98690.html

  • Stephen

    So, let’s see, the president wants to bankrupt every American into government dependency. He must not be from around here, because our nation was founded upon hard work and sacrifice. But then again, I guess if you can give everyone a quarter, they will turn around and vote for you.

    Who is this guy and why did some people in OUR country elect HIM president? He’s quite the salesman; able to sell people a load of bull, have hardworking Americans help those who won’t work buy the bull, and in turn give them nothing but slavery to the government system. Nobody, but nobody sees the devil in the details.

    Where did America go? It appears the only people who remain loyal to America are drinking tea. The rest seem to be drinking kool-aid.

    • Ryan

      yeah, don’t forget he and the Dems want to put a 0.1$ tax on mortgages to help pay for the payroll tax cut extension. So by trying to keep more people in their homes at the expense of the banks, he’s actually taking in more revenue to the federal govt. The $1500 the average person would save a year will cost them maybe $10-15k over 10-30 years if you are a homeowner still paying your mortgage. He’s raising taxes on the same people he says he’s trying to help out. How’s THAT for “fairness.”

      • DonnieB

        Nicely put Ryan.

      • Flashy

        Nice try. Not the truth though. First of all, the additional 0.1% fee is not for anything but to pay for the internal costs of the regulatory agencies monitoring mortgage abuse and reduce the title insurance FNMA and Freddie charge. Second, it’s a one time hit, not spread out over the life of the loan. Third, please point out what government monies are at stake. Fourth, please point out just what exactly the role of the WH was in the settlement reached by the State AGs involved.

      • Dntmkmecmoverther

        @Flashy : you are hopelessly ignorant; do you ever read what you post? You said: “the additional 0.1% fee is not for anything but to pay for the internal costs of the regulatory agencies monitoring mortgage abuse and reduce the title insurance FNMA and Freddie charge.” So the .1% fee is…a tax. Used to pay for a federal program…that’s what taxes do. You can call it a ‘fee’, ‘fine’, ‘excise’ or whatever. But if it walks like a duck, has feathers, and quacks, it’s a duck.

      • Flashy

        You don’t know the difference between a fee and a tax do you? As well, the main point is..it’s a one time fee…not a life of the loan hit as was implied.

      • Matt Newell

        Flashy if you believe that I have a bridge I’ll sell you. You seem to refuse to believe that Obama will do ANYTHING to get re-elected just as YOU will do ANYTHING to prove YOU are a good stooge for him and his policies.

      • eddie47d

        What was nice about Ryan’s misinformation? It was the banks who manipulated the homebuyers and thus should have to pay for their mistakes. The mortgage crises started arounf 2005 and it’s a solid 6 years later. The banks didn’t step up to the plate and correct the boondoogle so once again the government has to step in to get them motivated to do the right thing.

      • kkflash

        Flashy, who gives a damn what you call it, or what they say they’re going to do with it? If we’re giving more money to the federal government, it’s a mistake. We need to give them LESS. They need to spend LESS. They need to regulate and interfere LESS. Why does the government solution to every problem always come out the same – “Give us more of the people’s money and we’ll ‘fix it.’ “?

    • Sirian

      Stephen,
      There is a greater consumption of kool-aid than tea, by far. That’s what’s scary!! I pray that that will reverse itself soon, very soon!

      • Stephen

        Americans can begin to drink more tea this November.

  • skyraider6

    We the People have to stand up to this administration by protesting a stay at home for America day. No one moves, i think that will get their attention. They will start doing their jos for the people and not for themselves. STAY AT HOME DAY FOR AMERICA

  • LLoyd Rex Bennett

    Unfortunately the majority of the electorate have already found that if they vote for “Liberals”, a.k.a “Communists or Socialists”, they can get goodies for which they don’t have to pay. I know that I’m getting ready to take my family out of this country, along with everything that we’ve accumulated, if the professional “give everybody’s money away (except mine of course)” politicians, a.k.a. “Democrats”, get their favorite communist re-elected.

  • Marc

    Boy am I stupid! I just spent $30,000 to pay down my mortgage enough so that I could refinance.

    Trying to be a fiscally responsible America, I dump my life saving into my house. To do this I make sacrifices like drive a piece of junk with over 115,000 miles, take no out of town vacation, no cable TV, heck I don’t even have texting on my phone.

    Now I learn I could have saved my money and stopped making payments, and still been able to refinance and have someone else pay my principle!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    This makes me sick!

    • lueder

      Don’t complain about your car. I drive a rust bucket with almost 215,000 miles on it, my husband drives a car with 175,000 miles and my daughter is driving the best car with almost 295,000 miles on it. ;-)

      • Marc

        Stop making your house payments and put that money into new cars. Obama will make it all ok for you!

    • Flashy

      Actually marc…if you had stopped payments, you would be ineligible for the refi program. As well, ebcause you could refinance, you weren’t “underwater” in your mortgage, so again, ineligible. Third…if you spent $30,000 to refinance…either you got taken to the cleaners by some mortgage broker or you’re home is valued at well over $1 mil. (assuming one point charged as fees, appraisal, title insurance, etc.)

      • Flashy

        Ooops…sorry, I just saw where you paid down the principal so you could refinance. My error. Sorry.

      • eddie47d

        Considering this mortgage crises has been going on for six years I doubt if many of the original homeowners are still in their homes. Most of those home have gone back to the banks years ago so those who are really hurting will get nothing.When the home prices start going up again the banks who took posession of your home will have a great inventory and once again make a killing. Even if the property has to torn down the bank will still own the land and property has value. So they will still make money back over time unlike the original homeowner who lost everything.

  • Bobseeks

    Many of these homeowners bought more house than they needed and stretched themselves to the point that any financial setback would cause them to be in trouble with their loan I have no sympathy for these people because they are irresponsible, selfish and self-centered. These are exactly the kind of people who vote for democrats and their give-away policies.

    • Flashy

      A lot of folks couldn’t make payments beause they lost jobs when the Bush economy hemmoraged millions of jobs. The ones that walked were the irresponsible parties. The ones that stayed and tried (as in Marc above) are the real victims. So tell Marc he’s not getting your sympathy.

      • DaveH

        What did Bush do wrong?

      • Flashy

        DaveH…as i stated before…the shorter answer would be…what did he do right/ And that answer is easy…few if anything.

      • DaveH

        As usual, Flashman doesn’t answer my question, because even Flashman is smart enough to know it’s a trap.
        Flashman, anybody with a brain knows that you are feeding at the trough. Only somebody who benefits from Big Government largess would constantly make a fool of themselves trying to support the Big Government ripoff of the people.

    • eddie47d

      No Bobseeks those homeowners bought into the Conservative/Republican investment schemes that you can mobileize upward by buying a bigger house. Yes the American people have been hoodwinked into believing that bigger is better and that each succeeding generation has to outdue the next. Well that fable did come crashing down for many yet it was the banksters,homebuilders mortgage companies,etc who sold us that bill of goods. Why did the banks set up those ponzi schemes? Why didn’t the home builders build more moderate and affordable home? Why did mortgage companies double their fees on homebuyers in that same period?

      • http://gravatar.com/hattles JeffH

        eddie you really got your panties all wadded up don’t you! Conservatives/Republicans are to blame…excuse me while I LMAO at you…goin’ for broke I see!

      • DaveH

        Yes, I think maybe Eddie has tired of being on probation and is testing his limits like a spoiled child does.

  • jopa

    Hundreds of billions given to the banks during the Bush bailouts and peanuts given back.I would like to see more of the crooks going to jail.This is juat a bandaid for a case of severe trauma.

    • DaveH
      • kkflash

        The site gives far too much credit to the 2 president”s involved. It shoud replace both “Bush” and “Obama” in this list with “Democratic Congress”.

      • DaveH

        To be fair, KK, the Republican Party is complicit in the ripoff of the American taxpayer. Witness the summertime Debt Ceiling increase where even half of the new Tea-Party candidates caved to the Progressives.
        Between being the World’s Policemen and the futile Drug Wars, the Republicans are doing a pretty good job in aiding the demise of our country.

    • COAL MINER

      jopa,

      Amen! We need to start with Dick Cheney,George (Cockroach)Bush and the rest of the festering maggots.

  • Scott

    This article is not necessarily true. First the banks are only the ones the government bailed out, like Fanny Mae.

    As for people being slackers. That is not fair to say for those who have not walked away from their homes. I bought my house for 230,000, it should be worth 350,000 right now but because people in my neighborhood have not only walked away but also stripped their homes taking everything, even the copper pipes in the walls, the banks have sold homes around here for near to nothing. One home went for 3,000. Because Obama has not signed the bill proposed to him 3 years ago to make it so that foreclosures cannot affect everyones home value, my house right now is valued at 73,000.

    This is not my fault, but I am stuck. Can’t sell and move, cannot take advantage of the great deals out there, so if I do what is right and stick it out in my home I loose. So do not call me a slacker. Do not say I bought it for more than I could afford.

    What if I had to move for my job, becauise Obama is not doing his job, I would have to walk away from my house.

    Why don’t they take stronger action against those who do walk away. many are doing it now because they can get a beggier home than they have now for less money, I have seen a few just in my neighborhood who are doing just that, by the bigger home for less then walk away from theirs, They should go take the bigger home they just bought.

    • Sirian

      That’s the problem Scott, they want people to become more, if not totally dependent on the “all knowing” government. In other words, don’t worry about the responsibility that you have taken on when you signed on the dotted line. Uncle Scam will take care of you. . . sure they will. Don’t feel alone, you’re not the only one that’s stuck.

    • Witsend

      A little note regarding those who “walk away.” My brother lost his home (far too late, he was finally awarded soc. sec. disability.) His mortgage was such that he did not owe the bank the balance. The bank declared a loss – my brother got a bill from the IRS saying he owes $5000 tax on his “capital gain.”
      My sister lost her job and was eventually able to sell her home – a short-sell. She still owes the bank $50,000.

    • John

      73k is probably close to the real value of your home, the rest was a price bubble created by real estate agents, appraisers and home flippers.

      • kkflash

        Sorry, John, but rising prices are not caused by anyone but buyers. You can’t blame appraisers, lenders, agents or anyone else involved in the transaction. The decision to pay a certain price for any asset rests solely with the buyer.

      • Flashy

        KKF…and if the money wasn’t easily had…would there have been such a huge demand driving up prices?

        Remember the NINJA loans? 100% financed . No Income, No job, No Assets neede to be proven. Step right up, sign the docs saying your income was X , you had a job, and had Y in assets. 100% financing.

        Though of course, it was all the buyers fault. uh huh … sure …

    • DaveH

      Government meddling and the Federal Reserve money creation created the bubble and the resultant bust. We won’t return to some kind of normal stability until Government and the Fed quit messing with the economy.

    • DaveH

      Who called you a “slacker”, Scott?

  • William Giron

    I tell you who will pay for this. We the people and our sons and daughters will pay. They want to make slaves out of us, remember this money is coming out of the Tax payers. Who are these tax payers?
    Wake up take action our constitution rights are taken away by a few. This is what will happen, devaluation of the dollar. Same thing the banks are doing in Greece. Wake up., the alarm has sounded and you are still a sleep. Wake every one up tell them what it’s going on.

  • SMSgtZ (ret) Nam68

    Chip I enjoyed this what about you ? The whistle blower received 30 million and the government reserves the right to pursue criminal actions.Perp walks for bankers

    http://www.propublica.org/article/how-citibank-dumped-lousy-mortgages-on-the-government

    • eddie47d

      That’s a good one SGT. But no perp walk for any of the bankster crooks!? Were they rehabilitated and will now follow the straight and narrow? You and I know the answer to that one! They conned (stole) and the victums (homeowners) got the prison term. What a system!!

  • http://www.cafepress.com/tradthoughts UnPCdMOM

    IF we were truly all EQUAL under the LAW and this administration; AND if they really believed that corporations weren’t people (even the corps headed by they cronies) THEN instead of bailing out auto manufacturing and unions, or drowning home owners and banks, perhaps they’d take each and every of our 330 million or so citizens and give them that bailout money (not welfare).

    Instead of government giving money to the big banks, lawyers, Planned Parenthood, Acorn affiliates and solar/green companies why not give it to the citizens? NOT funding these alone would create a possible citizen reimbursement of 3,000,000 EACH, which government would instantly assess 1/3 as a tax. Wouldn’t each citizen (especially those poor and middle class) with 2 million available- be able to pay off ALL their credit cards, homes etc…, purchase additional education and be able to donate money to the charities of THEIR choice or invest in the companies they believe are the future with their own cash?

    I really Don’t believe in redistributing the wealth BUT if its going to be done anyway, how about ‘with LIBERTY and JUSTICE for ALL (citizens!)’
    THAT would be an administration that worked and one we could be proud of!

    • Stephen

      I would certainly agree. When they first talked stimulus and bailing out the auto industry, I thought the best approach was to give everyone, who possessed a valid driver’s license, a voucher for $$$ to buy an American made automobile. The people could then decide which auto to buy and which maker had the best auto for the money. Automakers would then have to compete for the stimulus $$$ and only the best producers would survive.

      Instead the government decides to tell the auto producers what auto would be the best for the American public to buy. And guess what, another great government idea which did not work, but saddled everyone with the debt.

    • DaveH

      The thing is, Mom, that they only ‘say’ they’re doing it for the rest of us. The truth is that Politicians and their Crony Capitalists are feathering their own nests at the expense of the rest of us.
      I must say that I agree with your sentiment. If the bailouts were indeed done for the real victims, why didn’t they just bailout the banks’ customers and let the mismanaged banks fail? Then the reimbursed customers could take their money to the banks who did things right, and the good managers would be rewarded — as it should be.
      Note that I don’t really support that event. I am just using it as an illustration of the real intent of the bailouts — support of Government’s Crony Capitalist Bankers.
      Ideally, Government would just butt out and let the mismanaged banks fail. To bail them out just creates a Moral Hazard mostly on the part of the Bankers, but also their customers who bear a little responsibility for not doing their due diligence on their chosen banks.

    • http://www.mototcarsfinancial.com Brad

      Free money is free and than there would be no value to the dollar, Like there is any value left, but it would be worth zero if it is free

    • kkflash

      You forget that when the government gives money to anyone, they must first take it from someone else. Unlike private businesses, the government doesn’t have to provide something directly to the person that gives them money. They take it by threat of force, and give it to whomever they please. And isn’t the big argument on this site always about who’s money will be given to government to do with as they please?

      • DaveH

        There is another way, KK, Government can “borrow” it from the Federal Reserve (Monetizing the Debt), in which case it is still “taken” from the rest of us but in a much more subtle fashion by making our cash savings and our fixed incomes worth less.

        • Deerinwater

          DaveH, wants everyone to get off of the merry-go-round, having realized that it don’t go anywhere but around and around.

          The problem is,~ just about everyone is riding the merry- go- round in one form or another and has for so long, they fail too or refuse to knowledge that it’s not going anywhere . It’s really not so hard to do, you get the feel of wind in your face and the view is constantly changing about you as you ride your painted horsey with wings.

          I understand the vision and how “rubber money” creates it.

          I’d say it’s a philosophical argument and he’d say it’s a “reality” ~ and I think that we’d both be correct.

          I tend to think we are actually discussing only the size of the circle and DaveH maintaining it needs to be a much larger circle, in which I would agree and welcome.

          But we love to beat each other up discussion the somatic and syntax.

          If we are not to ride the Merry-go-Round anymore, what will we do? Keep our wealth? Have more control over our lives? ~ perhaps, ~ but I fear a snake oil salesman would soon appear and we’d only find something else to buy.

          • Patty

            There is a saying for that. “A FOOL and his money are soon departed”.

  • Patriotic nut

    This article forgets to mention that this monstrosity still must be approved by congress before it can be implemented. Surely that won’t happen, but then again if the congress won’t approve it they’ll be called obstructionists again by the administration. Trouble is there are many who believe all of this crap coming from DC.

    • Flashy

      Ummmm..why does Congress have to approve this settlement? i believe you are wrong.

      • http://www.residualmoola.com Bill

        Well, when you have a situation where 50% of the people work for a living and the other 50% vote for a living, this is what you get.

      • Patty

        Flashy-Because congress is the only ones who can spend the money according to the constitution you profess to know.

      • John

        Patty, congress only has jurisdiction over federal government money and spending.
        It does NOT have jurisdiction over settlements worked out by states.

      • Patty

        John-True. I thought we were talking about Federal money. Where did the states get the money?

    • John

      This is a settlement by the STATES and has nothing to do with congress approval.

    • DaveH
      • Patty

        A Federal judge?

  • Flashy

    No need to comment on Chip’s ‘observations’ on the budget proposal. On the mortgage bailout though, it’s a tad bit more complicated and given the limited space it’s understandable Chip glossed over several key aspects.

    Yeah…it’s a bank reprieve on the overall extent of liability damages. It’s NOT a government bailout as the $$ is bank money. Tht’s number one.

    Number two, the stand alone seconds an Lines of Credit. Hard to figure how much those will be kept intact. In a “principal reduction” refinance, the refinanced loan is the first, and the Loan to value to be insurable has to be less than 100%. Do the math. The first has the home underwater, the second or the LOC brings it over 100%. Who’s gonna take the cut to bring it below 100%?

    That has always been one of the major thorns in any program designed to aid struggling homeowners. The holders of the seconds and LOCs refusing to cede value be it a little or a complete waiver. Not having read the language and the preliminary details as yet, I doubt anyone can give any guesstimate on the viability of the plan for refinancing.

    On the “damages rebate” issue, no Chip…it’s not a reward for being a bad risk or a scofflaw running from debt. First, the credit report is the credit report. banks see everything for the past three years as far as income, and any foreclosure has to be be explained. So anyone who simply walked will not have an easy go of it for awhile.

    Second, to earn the monies for damages, I believe the individual states will have that determination. no doubt tthere will be those like the good governor of Wisconsin..Scott Walker ….who slashed taxes on the upper incomes and sent his state spirialing into a huge budget shortfall… and immediately announced the monies will go to diminish the shortfall and not be for homeowners. Others, such as the Governor of Oregon, have said they will stufy how to supplement state programs designed to asist in homeowner purchases .. such as copying Tennesee’s program of a forgivable second. Again, these details have yet to be seen as the settlement has not yet been made widely available (thus understandable Chip couldn’t have enough to accurately write on the details)

    Finally, as to the deadbeats getting the same deal as those who tried to keep making the payments. A significant number of the foreclosed “walk aways” were investment houses…rentals or second homes. It has been commented upon this money is not to be used for those failed foreclosures. That wipes out the vast majority of deadbeats who bought and bought and then walked when the going got tough.

    Finally, and here’s the question…with housing still in the oldrums, and housing being the engine that would rapidly spark a job recovery (I believe the multiplier effect is the highest of any economic sector creating 7 secondary jobs for each one created directly), and revenues being a major factor as well…and people with jobs coincidentally happen to pay taxes (which may surprise a few posters here given their opposition to any jobs recovery bill).

    If it succeeds in giving housing a much needed shot in the arm creating jobs, if it helps in giving distressed hmeowners opportunity to refinance and have more disposable income available because housing payments are lowered, if it succeeds in the overall masive revaluation of property which has stalled any housing recovery … since it costs nothing in government money, why diss it?

    I’ll be interested in several things as the program begins to cme out. the major item will be whether the major banks self-refinance with this program and keep the loans, or whethr it sparks secondary bank acitivity and spreading the loans to the smaller banks spreading the risk (and creating competition) both positive and negative.

    Another is how the states handle the monies. Will they be theives as in Walker’s case…will they send direct payments…or will they utilize it as a fund to help future puchasing.

    Finally, will the purchase market uptick ? Will this principal reduction program impact short sales and thus increae that segment of the Sell/Buy real estate market?

    I’d look at the hiousing sales and new construction figures the next few months … that should give a decent preliminary read on the impact overall.

    I will add that with the details of the sttlement not yet wiely available, and so many undeterminants…I was suirprised there was an article dissing on it. i have a strong feeling it will be like the GM/Chrysler program…dissed on and trashed, and now that such are showed to be huge successes in saving jobs and a major portion of our heavy industry, quickly avoided in any discussion by the Right and Obama haters.

    • Walnut

      Wow Flashy. You are one bright guy! Unfortunitely, you must be in acedeamia . . . not out in the REAL world. You have really bought into the socialism along with 90% of the other liberals. I’d like to suggest you go read the Constitution of the UNider States of America. Oh, that’s right, I forgot that document is not worthy of the 21 century as Ms. Ginsburg so kindly pointed out this month. Perhaps you, her and the other liberals shoud go to South Africa where there’s a terrific Constitutionwhich says that the government’s right are all spelled out for you. That way you’ll not have to worry about making any decisions whatsoever . . . they’ll do it for you. As to our current dictator (along with hisw Presidental decrees) will soon be amoung the 18% unemployed come next January. Take that to the bank!

      • http://gravatar.com/halbhh halbhh

        I’m having a problem here when people cry “wolf” and it’s not the actual wolf yet.

        Socialism is defined, and clear: it’s like what they had in Cuba, when they have in Venezuela. It’s when the government *owns* the means of production, and the workers in whole industries are paid by and employees of the government.

        Socialism is not laws, like laws against fraud, or regulations like regulation against dumping oil in the storm sewer. Neither is it class action lawsuits were damaged parties sue for damages. Neither is it compensatory payments for fraudulent practices.

        Again, “Socialism” is the public owernship of the means of productions, like state ownership of the oil industry, such as in Mexico or Venezuela. See?

      • Flashy

        I believe it is a fair bet I have read the Constitution a few more times than most on this site. second…who was it that referred to the Consitution as “that quaint document” ? Want to venture a guess on that? Here’s a hint…he is currently a hero to the Right.

        • Walnut

          “Quaint” doesn’t mean DEAD . . . thank God!

        • Richard Norton

          Wow now Fashy has declaired hmself to be smart than the rest of us, at least he has read the constitution more times than the rest of us, and h knows none of us. Now I know he is a left wing dumbocrap, now if that is attacking you maybe you shoul rethink your position on America, your knd is ruining it.

      • John

        Hmm, here is an Idea, how about instead dissing Flashy the person, you spend as much energy on showing what and where he was wrong? And there are a few areas where he was not quite right, but instead attacking him like a bloodhound attacks his pray, attack and refute his points….if you can…

      • Patty
      • Flashy

        Richard…you have an issue with anything i write? pick it apart. You can’t? Go back and sit down.

        • Richard Norton

          Flashy, I only have a problem with anything you say because you are stupid, and kee dragging up all the old dumbocrap taking points, do you work for media matters, just a shill for obama and soros?

      • Hal

        Patty, I refer to bailing out a corporation as “crony capitalism”. It’s the correct term.

        Using the right word is the difference between a lighting stoke and a lightning bug, as someone once said….

        It’s a matter of whether you want to be convincing to just someone who already agrees, or convince someone who hasn’t yet decided.

        That’s when using the right word (and Sarah Palin did when she called it “crony capitalism”) really is worth your effort.

      • Patty

        Hal-Not sure what you were refering to, If you are the other Hal… that posted about socialism, I was refering to the gov’t take over of companies. Not the propping up of companies and crony capitalism.

      • DaveH

        Certainly we are not in a state of pure Socialism, halbhh.
        But we are nowhere near Capitalism — Private Property, Enforcement of Contracts, and Voluntary Trade unfettered by Big Government.
        We are much closer to Socialism than to Capitalism.
        For those who would like to be enlightened:
        http://mises.org/books/capitalism_kelly.pdf

      • DaveH

        Flashman,
        Why should anybody torture themselves wading through your long diatribe when most of us know that you are a dishonest person? We have better things to do.

      • DaveH

        Here’s just one example of typical Flashman drivel. Flashman says — “I believe the multiplier effect is the highest of any economic sector creating 7 secondary jobs for each one created directly”.
        Yeah, sure, Flashman, the “multiplier effect”. Anybody with half a brain can figure out that is Bull Dung. If the “multiplier effect” was valid, there would be no poor countries because any ignorant leaders can create make-work jobs with taxpayer money.
        The thing that those promoting the “multiplier effect” usually leave out it that the Money used had to be Taken from somebody else who would have used their own money to create Real jobs, not Make-work jobs. Imagine the “multiplier effect” that would have had.
        For those who would like to learn more:
        http://mises.org/daily/1889

    • eddie47d

      Walnut; President Reagan initiated far more “decrees” than Obama so get a grip on yourself. Would you call Reagan a dictator? Our Constitution was also written by men for the benefit of men(citizens).

  • Jmaarch

    The banks are getting a great deal and a lot of free homes. Most of these loans were securitized and sold to trust pools. When the economy tanked in 2008 most of these loans were paid off by bailout money, credit default swaps or insurance. The homeowners should get their homes back but that will never happen. The banks who are servicers and do not own the notes are foreclosing and getting the homes back without ever having to prove they own the home. In other words they are stealing the homes and the non judicial foreclosure laws are allowing this. In California the only way you can stop this crime is to file chapter 13 and make the bank prove they are the holders of the note. Most of the time the cannot as the note was lost or destroyed when it was securitized. It has gotten so bad that foreign banks, trustees and attorneys are out trying to steal homes they were never involved with in any way. They walk away with a home free and clear because most Americans won’t fight for it. It is like shooting fish in a barrel. This financial rape of the American people is one of the Greatest scams in world history.

    • Flashy

      A “non-judicial” foreclosure can be flipped to a judicial very easily. Porblems are twofold. One, it takes legal advice and costs. The second is in a “non-judicial’, the bank cannot go back tothe homeowner and make up the deficiency loss. A judicial they can. however, if there is a deficiency and the homeoweber is relieved of that obligation, it’s a taxable event (foregiveness of debt). In a judicial with a deficiency, the homeowner can then go 13 or 7 and wipe it out with no tax ramifications.

    • eddie47d

      Not much of a choice is it Flashy and thanks Jmaarch for bringing up those nasty Credit Defaults.

  • Richard Norton

    Yep this guy has truely become the answer to jimmy carter’s prayers, carter will no longer go down in American history as the worse president ever, obama has captured that title. This guy may be treated by history as the illegal president, when he is gne and all the facts come out. I am not a birther, but there are some real questions here that someone in the government should address. So lets give the lazy and most worthless a break for making bad choices, tht is what this amounts to, and lets treat responsible people like dirt,

    • JimRed

      You don’t have to be a “birther” to take heed of a couple of simple facts.

      Obama’s father (of record) was a British subject at the time of his birth, so he is NOT a NATURAL BORN citizen, regardless of WHERE he was born.

      As a child, he was adopted by an Indonesian, Lolo Soetoro, which made him an Indonesian citizen. There is no record of that being reversed.

    • Flashy

      Carter was possibly the worst until Reagan showed how it should be done to garner the position of the worsdt presidency of this nation’s history, then Bush relieved Reagan of the bottom position. get your facts straight.

      • Richard Norton

        No flashy, you are a dumbocrap shill, guess you haveto be brainless to believe that garbage so no since trying to argue with an idiot!

      • Flashy

        Can’t argue with the facts, so you denigrate the messenger. LOL

      • Patty

        Flashy-And just where are your facts about Reagan and Bush (forget Bush-I agree, only because it was a democratic congress), anyways, where are your facts and please make sure you point out who was the majority in congress at the time.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000019600404 Randal K Joslyn

    The usual BS from BHO to buy votes from the irresponsible of the nation. I respect the office of the president, just not the president or his staff. What a bunch of socialist idiots running this country. Doesn’t the congress get a say in this? Can he just do this unilaterally? Heaven help us in this nation.

    • John

      What does the federal government and Obama have to do with a deal made by the STATES and the banks… Its darn if you do and darn if you don’t, people will always blame The federal government and Obama…
      If the federal government would have made this deal the right would have screamed its an intrusion into states rights, now that the states have exercised their rights and struck a deal, it somehow is still the federal governments and Obama’s fault…..

  • http://yahoo joe matovich

    It’s not just obama it’s all 437 snakes on the hill.
    along with the payroll tax bill the boys have a provision to knock off low power tv. [that should about kill most christian stations]
    and let the lying scum of broadcasting charge more to the working class people to hear their BS.[ but don’t worry in illinois if your on welfare the state pays your cable and internet bill}

  • JimRed

    Confession time: I’m one of those darned fools who kept his mortgage paid up. Where’s MY relief?

    • Stephen

      JR, People like us, proud hard-working Americans, are the only ones left who have a clue. The government can’t help us, so we are evil to them. THEY, in turn, only want to bring us down to help those who WON’T try to be independent from THEM. We won’t enable THEM by voting FOR THEM, but those who WON’T are the ones who DO vote for THEM.

      Those who WON’T are the suckers you and I are forced to support by the government’s regulations on who will win and lose. The end result is that we’re all being forced into becoming suckers. And that ain’t American.

      • Jeep

        Please, familiarize yourself with the Russian revolution. It is very insightful and maybe even prophetic. The Bolshevics gained popularity through a concerted campaign of class warfare. Just like the progressive movement today the Bolshevics used class warfare against the bourgeoisie class (just call them the 1%’ers) to get the socialist movement started. But, after the prolitariat rose up and subsequent to the Ocotober Revolution the Marxist message of who the “enemy was” changed to include to an ever widening circle, from land owners to business owners and finally to professionals such as docotors and lawyers (Lenin was a lawyer, but somehow he was never the problem.)

        Our progressives today are following the same model, and pitting those who can pay against those who cannot (or will not) is straight from the playbook. And, for our progressive pundits here, say what you will, but remember that Lenin’s first move was to murder those that financially supported the revolution, then he moved on to murder those that voiced their support for the revolution.

      • Flashy

        Jeep….perhaps you should spend some time reading on the conditions which the Bolsheviks, the Maoists, Castro, Chavez etc used as fertile ground to foment their revolutions. None could even have gotten to the batter’s box without social and economic conditions being what they were for the many versus the few wealthy connected elites.

        Then examine the course of this nation from 1979 onward to the present. See any similarities? Including stealing the presidential elections of 2000 and 2004 ? The Right and the wealthy elite used every dirty trick in the book and wrought this nation grief, chaos, and brought us close to economic collapse. 2008 was a year they were overwhelmed and, I suspect, because they didn’t see the unrest culminating in the ralying around Pres. Obama.

        For the past three years, they’ve used every dirty trick in the book to weaken the movement towards repairing the damage wrought and to weaken their stranglehold on the American citizenry. Aided and abetted by those easily swayed by the TP Trilogy of fear, hate and ignorance.

        Since 1980, it has been open warfare on the American People waged by the Right and teh Wealthy elite. And the past three years Americans have begun to fight back.

        Whose side are you taking?

      • eddie47d

        Jeep forgets that the Elitist Czars in Russia were told many time by their inner circle that the system was collapsing and the wealthy couldn’t keep living like they were. In America we had and still do have the Elitist banksters who ignored the looming crises. They continued to exploit our economy for personal gain even after it started to unravel.That would be your comparison. Should we have a revolution for what they did? Hmmm!

      • DaveH

        Progressives play on the Ignorance and Greed of the citizens. They’ve got quite a scam going. First they undermine Capitalism with stories of Monopoly, Unfair Trade, and Worker Exploitation. Then they get laws passed to hamper Free Markets. Then after those laws result in the degradation of the economy, they blame it on Capitalism, which blame resonates with those who know little about economics and a lot about lusting after other peoples’ money. In a series of smal steps, they eventually have damaged the economy enough and bought enough Ignorant voters to complete their takeover.
        After the takeover, they typically dispose of those who are useless to them (the unskilled, the handicapped, etc.), in other words the Useful Idiots who bought into Government support and voted for more.
        The fact that they ply their trade by inflaming the baser human instincts should wake up all but the most Ignorant people to reality. But if that doesn’t work, then just peruse this list to see the common result of Big Government. Those at the top have the least Government, and those at the bottom have the most Government. This is EXPERIENCE, Folks. Learn from it:
        http://heritage.org/index/ranking

    • kkflash

      I’ll confess too. I’ve been unemployed and not contributing any income taxes to the system twice in the last 20 years. Each time I was out of work for at least 12 months. Never in the 42 years since my first paying job (at age 12) have I taken one dime in unemployment compensation, welfare, food stamps, disability benefits, or mortgage adjustments. Where’s my relief, you ask? I don’t want any. Though not wealthy or highly paid, I had the good sense to spend less than I made, and when tough times came, I lived off my savings. All I ask is that government do the same.

      • Flashy

        KKF…but it is nice to know that if tough times hit hard unexpectedly and you needed assistance, it was available. Right?

      • DaveH

        No Flashman, because that assistance always comes at the expense of somebody else, who may be equally struggling but have the morality to not assume the right to ride on other peoples’ shoulders (slavery).
        You know, Flashman — Morality — something that is in short supply with you.

  • Mikeles

    I bought my condo in March of ’08 at the asking price. I moved into my condo in early May of ’08. The price was fair market. In June ’08 the housing market in Tucson collapsed. I have made my payment faithfully every month, and intend to do just that until I die or pay it off. However, my home is now worth less than HALF of what I paid for it at market value almost 4 years ago.

    Am I a “slacker”? At the current market value I will be unable to sell my condo in the future without first refinancing it or coming up with some $20-$40k. If I can get the amount of what I owe reduced, why should I NOT?

    I really don’t give a f*** if you believe me a slacker, I am going to try to better my position on this property. I believe anyone who says they woudn’t is a liar or stupid.

    • Jeep

      Mikeles, noone is saying you are a slacker…you paid your mortgage faithfully. And, anyone who honors their obligations is okay in my book. The beef is with those who took out mortgages they would never be able to pay back, and with those who won’t pay it back. What agreements you made with the seller or the lender are your business. Where it becomes a problem is when the govt steps in to “help” with the obligations of the latter.

      This president knows that there is nothing free in this world, and yet the “freebies” are literally being poured out every day, everything from “free” contraceptives to $2,000 checks. These deals brokered by the govt are incideous in their design and dasterdly in their goals. As with everything else there is no alturistic motive at your local bank. They are out to make money. Period. The incideous part is that it “sounds good” and the case is being made that it “helps people”. Sure, it helps people who did not honor their obligations and agreements. But, what about those that did the right thing? The dasterdly part has to do with an administration that gets great press and accolades about fairness, and yet is it fair to the responsible homeowner? I think not.

      • Deerinwater

        I don’t think, returning what was stolen to begin with, is what I’d call “free”. Attempting to “right” any wrong , you mush first accept there was a “wrong” . It seems that Chip and many here, are refuse to accept any “wrong” has been committed.

        I suppose, me saying that now I’m found deserving of the title “liberal” for feeling this way.

        I guess truth and fairness begins with, whatever place in the history of event anyone wishes to start .

        In this case, I’d only go back as far as the year 2000. If Chip and the rest of you can’t accept that a wrong has been committed, or that it this ‘wrong” has greatly affect one region of the nation while being less prevailing in another, I’m at a loss for words and have nothing in common with you. Why would I ever consider voting your kind of vote? We don’t hold anything in common.

        And for the record, it’s not personal with me, I own outright several properties and enjoy mineral royalty checks. I’ve little to gain directly one way or the other with whatever happens. This might prevent me for racing in scoping up some good property on the cheap, but thats not my style, I work for a living.

        So spare me the Simpleton personal attacks.

        It’s called Empathy,

        Empathy is the capacity to recognize and, to some extent, share feelings (such as sadness or happiness) that are being experienced by another sentient or semi-sentient being. Someone may need to have a certain amount of empathy before they are able to feel compassion.

        Maybe you don’t know what “compassion” really means, let me help you.

        Compassion is a virtue — one in which the emotional capacities of empathy and sympathy (for the suffering of others) are regarded as a part of love itself, and a cornerstone of greater social interconnection and humanism — foundational to the highest principles in philosophy, society, and personhood.
        There is an aspect of compassion which regards a quantitative dimension, such that individual’s compassion is often given a property of “depth,” “vigour,” or “passion.” More vigorous than empathy, the feeling commonly gives rise to an active desire to alleviate another’s suffering. It is often, though not inevitably, the key component in what manifests in the social context as altruism. In ethical terms, the various expressions down the ages of the so-called Golden Rule embody by implication the principle of compassion: Do to others what you would have them do to you.[1]

        I know, ~ I’ve heard the Conservative “BOOST” of all of their “giving” , they seem to document it for flaunting while seeming to claim the “church giving ” as an exclusive conservative endeavor. Like the accounting of good deeds more important then the deeds themselves.

        I fail to see how anyone could show so little “Empathy” in one breath and while “give so much” in another. The “words have never fit this picture”

        Charity begins at home and “giving” can make people “weak” , even at HOME. These are accepted principals of understand, let us not attempt go back to “Sand Box 101″ to discuss the “downside” of giving.

        The trurth is, thousands of Americans have lost their homes and more is about too.

        The homes will eventually be purchased at reduced rates by someone with a large enough bank roll to fund them and they will go back on the market once again.

        The largest single loser will be the 1st home buyer, not only in money but hopes and dreams while the cycle with repeat it’s self. The Realtor wins, the appraiser wins, the taxing authority wins, the surveyor, the title company, the plumber, painter, air conditioning man, The money man wins, while the banks have worked out a system where they win both ways while claiming artificial losses while raking the money in.

        Throwing a life line out to those few that can swim well enough to reach is okay by me.

      • DaveH

        Deer says — “I don’t think, returning what was stolen to begin with, is what I’d call “free””.
        It was Stolen? Wouldn’t that involve an Involuntary taking of somebody else’s money, Deer? Were those Mortgages entered into Involuntarily?
        So we should reward those who entered into a deal that went sour through no fault of the Lenders? Do the sellers who prospered have to return their money? Should those who made bad decisions be repaid by people who had nothing to do with those bad decisions?
        How convenient for Liberals — Private Gains and Socialized Losses.
        Deer says “It’s called Empathy”. No, Deer, it’s called taking from those who did the right thing and giving to those who did not. It’s called Theft.
        We True Conservatives do indeed know what “Compassion” is. It’s helping people with your own money and your own time. What you Liberals call “Compassion” is simply Theft. You take other peoples’ money (slavery, theft) and call it something it ISN’T.
        But even if you don’t have any Real Morality, the reality is that taking from those who did the right things and giving to those who didn’t creates a Moral Hazard — i.e., the learned lesson is to not bother educating yourself or not bother doing hard work, because you will be ripped off by those who won’t do either. That results in worse economies where everybody, except the Leaders and their Cronies, suffers.
        Then Deer says “Throwing a life line out to those few that can swim well enough to reach is okay by me”.
        Poor example for two reasons, Deer:
        1) We aren’t talking about Life or Death. Even if we were, I would trust True Conservatives to save my life over Liberal/Progressives any day of the week.
        2) If rescuing those who have not done their homework is “okay by” you, then rescue them, Deer — With Your Own Money and Time.

      • Vicki

        Deerinwater writes:

        I don’t think, returning what was stolen to begin with, is what I’d call “free”.

        I don’t think that word means what you think it means.
        “1: to take the property of another wrongfully and especially as a habitual or regular practice ”

        Perhaps you are having trouble with the definition of “wrongfully” just as Clinton had trouble with the definition of “is”

        Oh wait. A communist can not own property. No that doesn’t work cause if there is no property to steal then there can be no wrongful way to take it.

        So we are back to the observation that Deerinwater doesn’t appear to know what stealing is.

    • kkflash

      If you can get your lender to refinance at a lower rate, or reduce your principal, then I commend you for doing something to better your situation. But, if you expect taxpayers like me to subsidize that reduction, then you are part of the problem, not the solution. I lost nearly all my equity in my house as the market collapsed, to the tune of about $60,000. I’m not upside down but that’s still a lot of money to lose. Why should I let my tax money go to help bail you out of your situation, when I lost as much or more than you?

  • unclsamserf

    I disagree with you Chip. Lot of people got dragged in a well made scam by the banks. You may fool some of your readers but not me.

    • Jeep

      I guess those people didn’t listen the 17 times Former President Bush went to congress to warn them about cheap loans and the coming “burst” of the housig bubble…

      • Flashy

        As he did everything he could to keep the bubble growing.

      • Jeep

        ry Flashy, but you are a democratic hack of the first order…I never even bother reading your silly posts….

      • Jeep

        Wow…some of my post was cut off…that should read…

        I know Bush was not a free market capitalist, and many of his policies I was firmly against.

        But, sorry Flashy, but you are a democratic hack of the first order…I never even bother reading your silly posts….

      • Flashy

        Name a Bush II policy that can be considered a success….

      • Patty

        Flashy – Here is a sight that lists his “accomplishments”. http://politics247.wordpress.com/2010/06/03/the-presidency-of-george-w-bush-success-or-failure/ Of course, they could or could not be considered such depending on ones views, especially those terrible tax cuts liberals often refer to.

      • Mikeles

        Yeah Jeep, W. did go to congress about that many times–it was a Republican congress until 2007. He got SOME action after there were some Dems in the Congress, but it turned out to be too little too late. Can’t separate a conservative from easy money was the mantra of the Bush Admin.

      • Patty

        Mikeles-It was Barney Frank who was the chair in charge of the commity who oversaw Fanny & Freddie. He screamed everytime anyone mentioned looking closely at either of them. He was neck deep in the whole mess.

      • DaveH

        Tell us what Bush did wrong, Flashman?
        Like I expect an answer from the slippery Flashman.

      • Vicki

        Flashy writes:

        As he (Bush) did everything he could to keep the bubble growing.

        Just another unsupportable flash factoid. I.E. a lie.

  • sam calandra

    the government created the problem now wants to screw the hard working contientious American citizens Pay the piper.

    Let us IMPEACH these blood sucking inside traders their only focus is
    becoming millionaires
    they swear to uphold the constitution.
    they thumb their nose at it
    IMPEACH—IMPEACH-IMPEACH

    • Mikeles

      It’s an election year, Sam, let’s save the money an impeachment would cost and just vote them out of office.

      • Patty

        Good, no GREAT idea.

  • Dan

    I don’t agree with the handouts at all. I think it’s ridiculous to spend spend spend when the debt is out of control. However I would like to say that I had to sell my house short. Not because of a bad loan but because the market tanked and my job suffered until I lost it. I quickly went to another company and am now back where I was financially. Everyone is quick to blame people for these mistakes but it’s the governments fault and it’s the banks fault. It was either Clinton or Bush Sr. and the “everybody deserves a house” BS. Banks lowered restrictions and lent to people they shouldn’t have. There is more to this than just people taking bad loans.

    • Jeep

      Dan you are not wrong in your assessment that the govt promoting and backing “bad” loans is wrong. But, where does personal responsibility come into that? Noone took a gun to the heads of the borrowers to make them sign on the dotted line. I am not talking about the responsible home owner that lost a good job because of the economy, or suffered from some other catastrophic circumstance. But, I am talking about the millions of people who signed their name for a monthly mortgage payment and had to count food stamps to make ends meet. The primary responsibility belongs to the homeowner who should know better, then comes the bank that should never have offered the loan and then the govt gets their share by “encouraging” the banks with money or intimidation to make the loan in the first place. There is PLENTY of blame to go around. All the while the responsible homeowner next door is watching the now inflated value of his home drop day to day. So, the govt solution is to broker a deal with the banks to bail out the knucklehead that signed for a loan he shouldn’t have, given by a bank that shouldn’t have and backed by a govt that had no right to back it in the first place.

      • Patty

        Jeep-you are so right about plenty of blame to go around. But yet, I get left holding this bag of excrement. They rely on the responsible ones to foot this bill.

    • kkflash

      I agree with you, Dan. Government bailouts are bad policy. If the banks made bad loans, they deserve to take the losses. If investors bought those bad loans in a secondary transaction, they deserve to take losses. And if home buyers paid too much for a house, and couldn’t sell it for the original purchase price, they have to take losses too. And if anyone thinks they got cheated or lied to in one of those transactions, we have a court system they can go to and try to recover their losses from the party that cheated them. As far as I’m concerned, the only part of government that should be involved in this housing/mortgage fiasco is the judicial.

  • http://Aol Raymond Lippitt

    What am I missing? Doesn’t this have to be approved by Congress

    • John

      Nope, this is a deal made by the states and does not need congress approval

  • Deerinwater

    One good turn deserves another.

    Chip, who’s side are you really on? any side that not Obama’s?

    These house prices were inflated ( the taxes as well) and financed with predatory lending practices and then Wall Street mislabeled these loans and sold bundled mislabeled loans in bulk world wide!

    At what point did you walk in to this movie? “Mr. Potter does Wall Street”

    Ron Paul was telling us the housing bubble would go bust in 2002 while few listened but somehow the average US Home Buyer, is suppose to be smarter then everyone else as he addresses his needs for housing?

    There is no good way out of this mess Chip, there is no good answer other then throwing some bankers and all the “ENABLERS” (like Newty and company) in jail, demanding and extracting restitution. That would be a daunting task to consider, while I’d enjoy seeing it.

    It was heist, a flim flam, a fraud of the highest order, while sources say, No Crime was committed.

    That would make it a perfect crime. The money now long gone in off shore and Swiss accounts. While WALL Street bankers received performances bonus, homeowners got forecloser notices.

    Obama promised MAIN STREET a fair shake after “W” bailing out Wall Street which materialized into bailing out State Governments that was confronting budget short falls and massive layoffs. So only indirectly did any help get to MAIN STREET as State governments sucked our bones.

    This is just more follow through on a promise made and a promise kept by the current administration.

    • DaveH

      Deer says “These house prices were inflated ( the taxes as well) and financed with predatory lending practices and then Wall Street mislabeled these loans and sold bundled mislabeled loans in bulk world wide”.
      Funny, Deer, I don’t remember the Lenders putting a gun to anybody’s head forcing them to buy those overpriced homes. In fact, my son who worked as a loan agent for awhile, often told me stories of people who lied extravagantly about their incomes and got away with the Fraud. Starting with the Community Reinvestment Act, and continuing with its Progeny, the Government was heavily involved in coercing Lenders to loosen up their lending practices. Couple that with the inflation of the money supply by the Federal Reserve and we got a housing bubble.
      I knew the bubble was there waiting to burst. The Austrian Economists knew it was there waiting to burst:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYkFYdLTTw8

      The only reason you didn’t, Deer, is because you listen to self-interested Liberal Leaders instead of doing some studying.

      • Deerinwater

        Well DaveH, I too know people in the housing and lending Industry and have for for some 40 years, and I don’t question what you say as true in some cases. But I do question the volume and incidences that you seem to claim as prevailing and wide spread. There is always people doing the things you say, fudging documents and out right lying about their financial worth.

        The Lending industry understands this and has set standards to follow, and as you said yourself, no one places a gun to their head and demanded that they engaged in unsound business practices where is was certain they would lose money.

        Wherever you decide to buy a home David, you must deal with the prevailing market forces of the region as they vary greatly all across the country. Your judgement seem to be predicated on a particular region, maybe even a neighborhood or single city for all I know. If you have plans to buy a home in a certain area, comp figures are a major factor is determining if any “deal” might be a sound investment. If the Comp figures are inflated, there is little a buyer can do other then just not buy. They might well make offers, but if they are below the Comp figures, very few would be accepted. Market forces are market forces, artificial or inflated, make little difference if you are a home buyer and engaging the current market.

        And why, must you suggest I listen to liberal “anything” David? Why the political affiliation “spin”? Why that constant annoying demeaning digg?

        What you are attempting to do is place blame on a single party, the buyer and a single political party machine when in fact the blame belongs to many.

        I don’t know where all these rats came from David, For most of Americans the buying of a HOME is the single largest investment they will ever make in their lifetime. It’s a place where the Lion is always in wait at the waterhole. And why is the Lion always there? The picking is easy and often and huge.

        But I’m not ready to burn down the barn to get rid of a few rats David. Save what’s worth saving and lets move on.

      • DaveH

        The “rats”, Deer, come from voters like yourself who will rally behind thieving Politicians who are ripping off the taxpayers and others to redistribute lawfully earned wealth.
        You are “burning down the barn”, Deer, because Capitalism (private property, voluntary transactions, Small Government) is what built this country and gave you and most of the rest of us our wealth. And you and your fellows, in their Greed to punish those who come out ahead, are enabling the thieves in Government to burn down our system and help themselves and their Cronies to other peoples’ money (taxpayers, etc.).
        I’ve given you plenty of links to books that would tell you who’s really destroying our country, but chances are you won’t read them because then you would have to acknowledge that for decades you’ve ignorantly been helping those who really are involved in taking advantage of our citizens — Big Government and their Crony Capitalists.
        Yet, you spend a lot of your time trying to convince others on this board to remain equally Ignorant.

  • Ben

    Dear Chip,
    You’ve made a terrible ASSumption. Not everybody who’s financially in trouble right now are deadbeats. I worked for twenty years as a carpenter, and bought a house that I could afford. It was under construction and I finished it to save even more. Then the housing bubble created by the Fed and big banks burst and there was no more work. During those twenty years, I busted my butt (and I’d be willing to bet that I worked, physically, much harder than you!) to carve out a life for my family and myself. Now, it’s all gone and I’m in college learning to do something new. I get loans, which I intend to pay back, and a scholarship. I’m once again working my tail off. I don’t want the governments $2000 because I didn’t earn it and, in the end, it won’t help much anyway.

    There is supposed to be an American Dream. Right now, it’s a nightmare with no waking in sight, all because of the greed of a few wealthy bankers. You’re helping to divide the country further by accusing hard working Americans, victimized by banks and the Fed, of being irresponsible and lazy. Meanwhile, a few years ago, working one day with me probably would have sent you to the hospital with a heart attack.

    • John

      As Carlin said rightly: The American dream is called that because you must be dreaming if you believe it…..

    • Patty

      Maybe the term “cash basis” should be adopted. If you can’t pay cash, don’t buy. All of this easy money and credit comes with a price. You just found out what your bill is.

    • kkflash

      Ben, I commend you for your obvious integrity, work ethic and willingness to take personal responsibility not only for your actions, but also for the vagaries of fate. If any crime has been committed in the mortgage crisis, it’s by those who lied to investors about the risk level involved in the collateralized debt obligations that were sold and resold. Bigger lies than that were told, and continue to be told, by the politicians who bought votes with their “everyone deserves a house” promises, and the legislative actions that made it possible for people to believe the lie. The truth is, home ownership is a big reponsibility, and a big risk, and a lot of folks can’t handle it, and shouldn’t try. I believe you’ll succeed though, and have the home you desire, all bought and paid for by your own efforts in the end.

    • DaveH

      Ben says — “You’ve made a terrible ASSumption. Not everybody who’s financially in trouble right now are deadbeats”.
      Did Chip say that? What is with you people who put words in Chip’s mouth?
      Flashman said it, but if you know Flashman you know his words are not truthful.

      And the fact that your industry has hit tough times is unfortunate, but if you’re going to blame somebody, at least blame the correct people — Big Government and the Federal Reserve.

      • Libertytrain

        Dave – there were also people involved. People who knew very well they couldn’t afford to buy what they were buying to begin with but did it with little regard for the ramifications ahead. People say the rich are greedy. I kind of think there was a whole lot of middle class and lower and upper middle that were just as greedy. I’m middle class but I know a little about how to budget…and the reality of how far money goes or doesn’t go.

  • skyraider6

    Until we restore America to the days before obama. let’s consider a day off for freedom nationwide

    • http://gravatar.com/revnowwhilewecan revnowwhilewecan

      More like the days before Andrew Jackson. (1836) The last time the “debt” was paid.

      • Deerinwater

        not before, during.

  • Wumingren

    People complain when the value of their homes plummets below the value of their mortgages, and many of these people want to walk away from their homes and financial obligations or get a government bailout, even when they still have the ability to pay their mortgages. Those who abandon their homes end up renting a home elsewhere. Does a renter not pay a fee that will cover the homeowner’s mortgage, home repairs, taxes, insurance, association fees (if applicable), and a bit extra for profit? How are renters ahead for doing that?

    People complain when the value of their new automobiles plummets as soon as they drive them off the dealers’ lots, but they don’t hope to walk away from their financial obligations or get a government bailout. If the car is repossessed, they’ll either have to buy an old rust bucket or take the bus. They certainly will not be renting a car like the one they used to own.

    The way my wife and I see it, we have a financial obligation to pay our mortgage, even though the value of our home continues to drop. We are not underwater yet, because we made home improvements years ago that brought the value of our home up (Okay, lots of sweat equity!), and because we were not enticed to borrow on the equity of our home. The barrage of junk mail relating to refinancing was incredible during the housing bubble, but we knew it was too easy and that one day we’d have to pay the piper for living beyond our means. We are nearing parity between our home’s value and the amount remaining to be paid on our mortgage, but we will not abandon our home to end up renting a home elsewhere, while at the same time losing the best home we’ve ever had along with our excellent credit rating.

    We can live with ourselves. We made good choices. No matter what detritus swirls in the cesspool of government bailouts below us, we will push onward for our own success and to teach life lessons to our two grade school children. They know who Dave Ramsey is. And they know when to shout, “Cheetah!”

  • Allan

    I am really concerned regarding the trend to bail out people today. It sure works great to get more people liking the current President. But what about those like me, now 62, no debt to get bailed out who with IRAs and Roths and other savings will suffer a lack of free market opportunity for those savings to grow because they are being secretly and openly being tapped to fund those in a position to do so, either via a crony capitalism relationship with the government or via direct government policy to bail out those in debt. Vote for Ron Paul, the only one who really stands up for liberty, free markets and self determination – before its too late and it already might be too late! Also vote for Republican candidates for House and Senate.

    • John

      And voting for the same corrupt politicians that are responsible for this mess will do WHAT? Make you feel good because you voted the party line? Both parties are responsible for this mess, it was NOT created in the last 3 years alone.

      • DaveH

        Who are you voting for, John, to remedy the situation?

    • Patty

      Alan – And it is about to get worse for you. 45% tax on the return of your investments when you start drawing on your hard earned 401k’s when Obama implements the new capital gains tax rates. Just what you need when you can least afford it and all in the name to get those “rich guys”. People don’t get that when you are out to get 1 group, you are really going to screw all groups.

    • Deerinwater

      Boo Hoo! I’m sorry that your “savings” is not going to work as hard for you. Increase your risk to improve your returns or settle for less or get out of the gambling business .

      There’s a time to get in and a time to get out to everything.

      This middle men/”ladies” gambling business is only going to get trickier as time drags on.

      The Entitled Wall Street crowd is use to living large. When things start drying up, they tap a new well at your expense and think little of it. They have done it before and they will do it again.

      • DaveH

        Deer exposes his lack of Compassion. All one needs do is give a Progressive a little rope. Eventually their real character will come out.

      • DaveH

        So Allen’s savings are gambling now, Deer?
        Unbelievable.
        Read this book, Deer. Learn something. Quit being an Ignoramus:
        http://mises.org/books/capitalism_kelly.pdf

      • DaveH

        Deer says — “This middle men/”ladies” gambling business is only going to get trickier as time drags on”.
        “middle men”? That one phrase pretty much indicates Deer’s Communist leanings.
        Learn something, Deer. Read Part VI, Section 24 (page 179):
        http://mises.org/books/defending.pdf

        • Deerinwater

          Gambling in a game you have little control, while depending on someone’s loss to be your gains Is Capitalism? Sound more like lazy greed and folly in self indulgence.

          Maybe you should rethink your position. There need not be a loser in an equable business transaction.

          Tell me why you see a need for a victim in capitalism.

      • Deerinwater

        DaveH says:
        February 18, 2012 at 10:50 am
        So Allen’s savings are gambling now, Deer?

        When he commits his saving to “chance” hoping someones lost with be his rewards , That is gambling David.

        Like you say, who put a gun to his head?

        Perhaps personal wealth can be used more wisely with less risk while requiring more effort?

      • DaveH

        Deer says “Gambling in a game you have little control, while depending on someone’s loss to be your gains Is Capitalism? Sound more like lazy greed and folly in self indulgence”.
        It might sound that way to a budding Communist, Deer. But Capitalism is not a zero-sum game. In Capitalism people trade voluntarily with each other and both benefit. That’s why it’s Voluntary. If you lose, it’s only because you foolishly and voluntarily buy something that is overpriced. That is nobody’s fault but your own, Deer.
        I realize that you Liberals want what you want, and if you change your mind later, somebody else is expected to pay the price for your Ignorance. That is Greed, but it is neither moral, nor economically sound, which is why those countries who have foolishly adopted your kind of politics have crap economies.
        Read the book on Capitalism, Deer, and quit being an Ignorant Stooge for the Liberal Leaders.

        • Deerinwater

          I see! So it being voluntary make it a good thing to do! And I such support you because you like it!

          Well, I’m a Tax payer and a victim of other people’s pleasure with what they do with their spare change. ~ They inject a middle man between supply and demand forces and create artificial realities that I’m left to contend with by way of inflated prices.

          If they fail, they whine and cry, if they have rooted themselves into a corrupt system and it found too big to fail, I’m left to protect myself by protecting them. I did not volunteer for this , I was extorted.

          There is something badly wrong with such a system.

          “If” ~ to separate a fool from his money is the overriding effort of a momentary system that you endorse and subscribe too, please tell me why I or anyone would be inclined to listen to a word that you have to say David H?

          Why are you attempting to educate everyone in momentary policy if it going against your own self interest?

          I suggest to you, any system that requires a victim is a predatory system, while you may assign me or such system any name that you wish.

      • Vicki

        Deerinwater writes:

        Well, I’m a Tax payer and a victim of other people’s pleasure with what they do with their spare change. ~ They inject a middle man between supply and demand forces and create artificial realities that I’m left to contend with by way of inflated prices.

        Typical play of the victim card. Also using the bogyman argument. There is no middle man in supply/demand. There is only supply and demand. The supplier makes something that you want. You find that you are not alone in that want. The supplier asks what he wants. You have 3 choices. Buy, don’t buy and do without, get up and make it yourself instead of whining that the “evil” supplier won’t sell to you at the price YOU want them to.

        And liberals call us selfish.

        • Deerinwater

          that is not what stocks and commodities is about.

          You’re tuned into a sick man David.

      • Deerinwater

        and you don’t play the victim card vicky? You consider yourself a constant victim of someone other then your own behavior.

        When it comes to Boggie Man the GOP write the book!

        http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&sqi=2&ved=0CEMQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.boogiemanfilm.com%2F&ei=FD9AT8_6Dens2gXgzcCOCA&usg=AFQjCNG479Bt-_v456M0HyF4P2YP2ipwCQ&sig2=a9YIxGcVHI04m2CUA4OkWQ

      • Vicki

        Deerinwater says:

        and you don’t play the victim card vicky? You consider yourself a constant victim of someone other then your own behavior.

        nope.

        (Gratuitous link to a movie about a bogyman ignored.)

      • DaveH

        The “compassionate” Deerinheadlights says — “that is not what stocks and commodities is about. You’re tuned into a sick man David”.
        Yep, that’s the way to win an argument, go for the personal attack.
        Imagine that, an ignorant person telling me I don’t know what stocks and commodities are all about. You know nothing about what stocks and commodities are all about, Deer. Perhaps you could tell me what they’re all about? So far all I’ve seen you say is that they’re “gambling” which proves your ignorance to me.
        In fact, commodities aren’t a financial instrument, they are a physical good. You would know that if you had a clue.
        You have proven yourself, Deer, to be just another clueless thieving Liberal.

  • william twiss

    $2000. is just a sugar tit to get votes for himself.

  • http://gravatar.com/halbhh halbhh

    “They listened to the liberal rhetoric telling them it wasn’t their fault and stopped making mortgage payments altogether.”

    Er…most just reached the end of the low rate period, and then the interest rate moved from like 4% to 8%. Boom.

    End of ability to pay, no matter one’s sense of obligation, simply because $2800 is more than $1800.

    Nothing much to do with politics or “liberal” in that. Just math and hard reality.

    Problem with crying wolf when it’s not the wolf (and there are some wolves!) is that later, when the wolf *does* come…..

    • Jeep

      Oh, I get it! So, the lesson here is:

      Don’t buy a home with an ARM at 4% without knowing what it will cost you when it goes up to 8%! And, you should be smart enough to calculate if you will be able afford the mortgage when the scheduled rate increases!

      Gosh, that sounds like common sense to me…but, apparently common sense was lacking at many a closing in the last few years.

      • John

        And it was lacking not only for liberal voters but also for many conservative voters…this issue spans the whole political gamut. There are as many responsible and hard working “liberals” out there then there are responsible “conservatives” out there. Anyone who says that everyone that went under during this housing crisis was an irresponsible liberal, democrat, or communist is plainly delusional.

      • Deerinwater

        That’s for certain JOHN,

        I don’t know why they talk so stupidly, either they are “shut-in’s” and don’t know any better or drank so much FOX Kool Aid, they have flowed their eye balls.

        This narcissistic mindset goes far beyond partisan politics and civil discourse. It’s like they are the only ones worthy the title American patriot and tax paying citizen. I truly believe that many are shut -in’s and haven’t much of a life of their own, there a high quantity of bitterness that shows through.

        To their benefit, the extreme radicals of all creed and persecution are the impudence to “change”, but they are like an old hound that killed a skunk and thinks getting in your car for the ride back home is a good idea. Hard to endure and put up with.

      • DaveH

        Deer says — “I don’t know why they talk so stupidly, either they are “shut-in’s” and don’t know any better or drank so much FOX Kool Aid, they have flowed their eye balls”.

        Then he goes on to say — “This narcissistic mindset goes far beyond partisan politics and civil discourse. It’s like they are the only ones worthy the title American patriot and tax paying citizen. I truly believe that many are shut -in’s and haven’t much of a life of their own, there a high quantity of bitterness that shows through”.
        “Civil Discourse”, like you’re practicing? Can you say HYPOCRITE, Deer?

        If you want to talk about people being “Hard to endure and put up with”, you’d best look in the mirror. You Greedily Lust after other peoples’ money, and you want to control the lives of others, when in fact you’re not smart enough to control your own. If you were smart enough, you wouldn’t need to ride on the backs of others.

      • DaveH

        What’s really ironic here is that an Ignoramus, who wants us to bail him or his friends out from their stupid mistakes, is calling us “stupid”.
        Unbelievable.
        If you had the intelligence you think you have, Deer, you wouldn’t need to ride on the backs of others who did the right things.

      • Deerinwater

        Well, I’m no mystery, offered it many times, I’m 100% private sector , nonunion, non entitled and been self insured, self employed and “serving peoples needs” since 1997 and all my tax obligation are current. But on the other hand, you DavidH have not be as so forthcoming. At this point, I wouldn’t trust you to tell us the truth about yourself , so don’t bother.

        If you think I’m a Communist , the world is in deep 4hit or you are. With very many people like yourself around, I’d suspect both.

        Who have you ever served in your life DavidH, not God, not country. What master do you serve? Gold & Silver? Come out from the shadows and show yourself. Otherwise, you are a purely academic voice, speaking of some perfect utopia, pie in the sky idea, some brain fart that sounds good while practical application seriously lacking.

        We are “not” going back to the 1800 century and start over again, forget it Buckwheat.

        If you want to continue with this war of words, labels and insults, I can be just a creative as you.

        And there is always someone between Supply & Demand, if you had any experiences in living in this world today or yesterday, you would know that. Did you just fall out of the sky or were you hatched from an egg?

      • DaveH

        I said “budding Communist”, Deerinheadlights.
        The only people I’ve heard bashing the “middle-men” have been those who lean to Communism. I fully expect to hear the phrase “conspicuous consumption” coming from you next.

      • DaveH

        For a guy who accuses others of Untruthful speech, Deerinheadlights, you sure do have a lot of conjecture about me in your comment. The truth is that you’re just an ignorant person who can’t effectively debate the facts, so you must resort to personal attacks.

  • JonesArmyWife

    @ Wumingren, I agree with you. My husband and I own our home it may not be a palace but we bought what we could honestly afford, not something to boost how we felt about ourselves, We purchased in 2005 and we are still here. With multiple lay-offs and one deployment to Iraq to come home to unemployment for 18 months without a job. we are still here and we make our commitment every month. We don’t have credit cards and we don’t make car payments. If we can’t afford it we don’t buy, we pay cash. our credit rating is low because of this when I think our credit rating should be high, The credit rating that forces you to be in debt you can not afford is out of control. you are only worth your debt and not worth your assets you own. what a backwards world. We won’t be getting any help or money even though we are probably in need of it more than most. but that is the way life is. it rewards those who are not responsible and hurts those who are.

    • Old Gringo

      Bravo to you JonesArmyWife. If only more people adhered to your philosophy they wouldn’t find themselves in dire straits.

    • John

      The credit rating is an artificial number invented by the banks to control the people… nothing else. All my transactions are cash only. I do not own a credit card, Have a private held mortgage (paid 50% cash down) and I bet my credit rating is mediocre…. but I don’t care because I don’t let the banks control my life.

      • DaveH

        Good moves. Now teach others, so they don’t get themselves into the messes that they then try to get those people, who did the right things, to pay for.

    • Cheryl

      Amen JonesArmyWife!!

  • raw

    When I was a child standing in line for inoculations, the kids who cried got a cookie – the good kids got nothing. Unfairness is taught from childhood, & accepted.

  • rtose beach

    what big dumboes you all are! you let a stupid ignorant demo hold this nation under threat and do nothing. now the whole senate of demos is willing to sell our country out. we’ve gone to war for less. do something-rose

  • John

    What does the federal government and Obama have to do with a deal made by the STATES and the banks… Its darn if you do and darn if you don’t, people will always blame the federal government and Obama…
    If the federal government would have made this deal the right would have screamed its an intrusion into states rights.
    Now that the states have exercised their rights and struck a deal, it somehow is still the federal governments and Obama’s fault…..
    It would be nice if people would think for a change and try to comprehend what is going on instead immediately blame the federal government for something they did not do.

  • guest on this planet

    Worked hard all my life , paid off my mortgage , paid for college for the kids , paid my bills and tried to save for retirement only to see the new America where everything is free . That is free for the 50 percent that dont pay taxes

    • FreedomFighter

      No its not free, your taxes are paying for it

      Laus Deo
      Semper Fi

      • DaveH

        That’s what he said, FF.

    • Deerinwater

      “That is free for the 50 percent that dont pay taxes”

      Reply; well, it called an “Income Tax” for a reason, you are taxed on Income, so no Income , no tax.

      I hope that cleared things up for you, I doubt if 50% of the people are even employed.

  • richmond saylor

    well all the obama has talked about and helped is the banks and automobile companys,and foreign countrys,hey how about us old people worked all our life to pay for us a home but now cant afford,to repair it so we can live in it the rest our lives,where is our money to redo this old house,nop we got move out of it because its run down, we cant get money to repair it, so here we go to a goverment housing, we need a poor man for president then he wouldnt be giving money to the already rich,and i hope to god we get third party in this crooked politic;s

  • J J

    Everything with this President is FREE. He likes to hear that come out of his mouth. He is buying votes for FREE. He doesn’t seem to understand that the costs for FREE have to be taken up somewhere. Sorry, Mr. President, nothing is FREE. This idea for fixing the housing market is nothing new, he just used different words (he is very good at that). I have lost 60% of the value of my home and I don’t care what the President thinks he can do, it is too little too late. I will NEVER be able to sell my home without taking a huge loss. I would love for that loss to be paid for by the people who are actually responsible for this problem…..Dodd, Frank, Clinton and many other Democrats who seem to think that just because you live in America, you DESERVE everything to be handed to you for FREE!!! This plan, like so many others, will not work!!!

    • FreedomFighter

      I am a Patrioterrorist.

      I believe the following:

      We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

      I believe in the Bill of Rights.

      I believe that the rights of American citizens supersede those of non-citizens within the borders of this great nation, yet the government desires to institute an international or global standard of jurisprudence upon the people.

      I believe in using cash to prevent the risk of credit fraud or excessive waste and accumulation of debt for everyday or weekly purchases, while avoiding enslavement to the banks as a debtor.

      I believe in acquiring goods and services in large quantities or small without having to answer to others.

      I believe the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution only asks that I demonstrate that I am sane, legally able to, and of age to acquire firearms and ammunition but not explain why I wish to purchase a firearm to a neighbor, stranger, or bureaucrat.

      I believe the United States must divorce itself from foreign entanglements and begin the process of repatriating our troops home, while honoring those who have served, and assisting the families of the fallen.

      I believe America should come first. All other nations should remain at the rear of the line.

      I believe that all religions should have the right to be practiced within our borders until they begin to infringe upon the rights of others.

      I believe the two political parties are so corrupt that they are assisting in the destruction of our society at a cultural, economic, and international level.

      I believe that I should be allowed to purchase PVC pipe to repair my sprinkler system, nails for my nail gun, shovels for my yard, and fertilizer for my grass without being subjected to a Department of Homeland Security inquisition.

      I believe that I should be free to buy waterproof matches for camping, MRE’s for hiking, and those nifty .50 caliber ammunition boxes for storage without being put on a FBI watch list.

      I believe that I should not have to live my life in fear of my neighbors, children, or strangers contacting authorities and submitting false reports about my daily activities.

      I believe that I should be allowed to speak freely to my wife about the corruption and absolutism within our government while out in public without a clerk, stool pigeon, or dupe calling a toll free number and destroying my family’s life with accusations of crimes of which I am not guilty.

      I am a Patrioterrorist. If you believe in the Bill of Rights, the Torah, the Christian Bible, Hindu writings, peaceful Islamic script, anything that the Democrats or Republicans object to, or the ideals of our Founding Fathers, then you are a terrorist too.

      Full Artical:
      http://johngaltfla.com/wordpress/2012/02/16/i-am-a-patrioterrorist/

      Thanks for the link Steve

      Laus Deo
      Semper Fi

    • eddie47d

      But JJ did you allow the Republican banksters to take Free money from you when you purchased your home? (ARM’s) Did you allow those mortgage companies taking a little extra Free money on their fees? Did you allow the previous homeowner to pad the price of the house to gain a little Free money? Did you allow the appraiser to beef up the price of the house so you could get as much Free money as your neighbor did? Did the original landowner demand an exhorbant amount of Free money that was sold to the homebuilder? Everyone wants some of that Free money irregardless how it shapes and affects the economy as a whole. That’s the Capitalist way so blame them for the inflated prices and their oversized bank accounts. We’re all suckers for that Free money in the land of OZ!

      • Richard Norton

        Hold on there eddie47d, all those people you say took “free money”, the landowner, the bankers lending you money, that is interest and you are welcome to not pay it, just save your lunch money until you have enough, the mortgage companies that get the money for you with the reams of paper work, they are charging for the service they provide and the land owner, he sold the land the money was not “free” that is all the free market, you are welcome not to particapate. It is your choice to make, maybe you don’t understand all this but if you have a product or service to sell people have the right not to buy and go find it cheaper if they think you are overcharging them. Now the government justhas to say you owe this money and if you don’t pay they will take everything you own and place you in jail.

      • eddie47d

        When a bank overcharges with high interest rates that is Free money to them and it is coming out of your pocket. If land is worth a couple of thousand and he sells it for 10 thousand then that is Free money to him. If a homeowner marks his house up beyond what the neighborhood is worth then that is also Free money. Just because some say it is whatever the Free market will bear doesn’t mean it is an honest deal. If someone gouges you and gets away with it then they are receiving Free money!

      • DaveH

        How can a bank “overcharge” you, Eddie, if it was a voluntary transaction to which charges you agreed?

      • Deerinwater

        Why assume that it was “agreed” to? because it’s Eddie?

        • Patty

          Of Course they did. ALL fees and the total amount of interest you will pay over the life of the loan is on the closing statement you signed and therefore agreed to. Not once, but twice. Once when you put the money down for the purchase (called a purchase agreement) and the 2nd time when you signed on the dotted line for the loan. Ridiculous.

    • Mikeles

      Hey J.J., What about the two FREE wars that W. didn’t fund, and the FREE drug program that W. didn’t fund? Did you rant about those FREEbies then, or do you only rant when you talk about Dems? Me thinks it is the latter or you would have mentioned the UNFUNDS OF BUSH II.

      • DaveH

        I did.
        But do two wrongs make a right, Mikeles?

      • Deerinwater

        There is times it make things a lot better. You can keep you ideas of “right” and I’ll keep mine of “real”

      • DaveH

        You’re rapidly achieving Troll status, Deerinheadlights.

  • http://www.facebook.com/robbophillips Rob Phillips

    As a prime example of “couple #1″ who put $20K down, has made every payment and is still stuck with a house worth less than the balance of the loan after nearly 7 years, I’d just like to send a resounding “– YOU!” to both Wells Fargo and Obama.

  • Spyder dalton

    Again noi mention of the millions of people who lost hundreds of thousands of dollars on down payments for real estate investments when the banks decided to stop lending people money for real estate. People like Trump walked away with millions of other people’s hard earned cash.

    What the little people are the only ones to blame here? Stop referring to people who bought homes they couldn’t afford. The only people left out here that are scrambling to save their homes from foreclosure are the ones that played by the book and lost their jobs, retirements, etc. from the bank fraud.

    The ones that bought homes with no money down and couldn’t afford them are long gone. Wake the hell up.

    • eddie47d

      Amen Spyder!!

    • COAL MINER

      Spyder dalton,

      You forgot to mention George Scab Bush Jr,king of the cock roaches.

      • Deerinwater

        It’s looking better for Ron Paul everyday! MITT is in Michigan telling them how he’d gonna tell the UAW how the cow eats the cabbage!

        That cat just does not have a clue where his tail is at! He’s imploding!

        I guess he’ll go to Bama next and mandate sensitivity training to the KKK.

        A Ron Paul / Rick Santoum run off should be a no brainier?

        OPP’s! ~ never mind.

  • Mark

    Small business owner here. Where is my bailout. After 35 years I am about to have nothing.
    Instead of b****ing ( like I do ) we need to do something about it. Seems like George and Thomas and Ben had the right idea.
    Congress has it just like they want it and they work for us. You tell your boss how you are going to work and how much you are going to make. See how long you last.
    If he gets re-elected the United States of America will be broke before his reign is over.
    We have a bill board innorth georgia stating.
    If you voted for our current president ( little “p”) to prove you wereen’t a racist, vote for someone else in 2012 to prove you are not an idiot.

  • Philip W

    After 2002 as the housing bubble started, many people with good credit and some money for down payments did not buy a house because it was a bubble and more money than they could afford. They were responsible hopeful buyers who got shut out due to their responsibility and unwillingness to participate in this fiasco. Everyone else is getting bailed out and the government is trying its hardest to keep home prices up- thus shutting out new buyers from a sensible purchase. The shut out responsible home buyers are ignored, marginalized, taxed to pay for the irresponsible and greedy ones and otherwise enslaved. No one does a thing to help them and they remain homeless and paying to keep irresponsible people in homes and banks rich.

  • Norman

    So I hope that all you that read this will look at all the canidates and chose the only one with a proven record of doing whats right for the American people and legal under the constitution and not breaking ANY laws or COMITMINTS! RON PAUL 2012!!!

  • http://gravatar.com/lowlywise lowlywise

    This article really should be ignored, but I can’t resist commenting on two things: (1) its tone is ugly and confrontational; (2) it confuses moral and economic values.

    The latter might also be said of Jesus Christ, as the stories come down to us in the Gospels. Was it fair that the guy who worked one hour should be paid the same as the one who worked all day? Was it fair that the crooked steward should be commended for being shrewd? Was it right to give the one talent (rather cravenly buried rather than put to earning) be given the one who doubled the money entrusted to him? On the surface of things, none of these were fair. But look deeper, and they are right according to the nature of things.

    There were contracts to be fulfilled. They were either kept or broken, and the consequences flowed from that action. The laborers signed on to do a job and were paid according to the terms agreed upon. The steward acted to save his own hide by getting the right results from his boss. The guy with the one talent acted out of fear and was stripped of responsibility that he perhaps should not have had to begin with.

    I have researched courthouse records in search of foreclosed properties, and it made me very angry to find 1000 sq ft 3 br 1 bath 20-yr old homes in crummy neighborhoods (first and second sides of the Monopoly board) with effectively no equity and mortgages with close to twice the incomes of the buyers — often people with Spanish, Russian, or Vietnamese names. The purchase prices of those homes were often nearly double their value at foreclosure and well above the going value at the time of purchase. It was obvious that both the RE agents and the lenders had (privately) built foreclosure into the deal. This was not right morally. The fallout financially worked financial woe. You could say that these buyers knew what they were getting into: there are, after all, disclosure laws. But nobody requires these disclosures to be in the buyer’s own language, using terms a relatively uneducated and unsophisticated person could understand. This was a total ripoff, and justice for those people would be to penalize the agents and lenders (and perhaps sellers) to compensate those so wrongfully ripped off. The bailout actions don’t, so far as I know, make such a requirement of the agents and sellers, and so they are doubly compensated: they keep the money from the ripoff and walk away with no further consequences. Why no moral high dudgeon for this abuse?

    The people who simply quit paying, as one respondent here points out, are often speculators to whom no personal hardship is suffered. These should have no bailout, nor should the banks; that would be both morally and financially right. The properties involved, however, are more likely to be on the 3rd and 4th sides of the Monopoly board, with more outlay from the banks but not necessarily from the zero-down, OPM buyers. These people know the language well, are better educated and more sophisticated and thus in better position to take advantage of the system. Is it fair that they should be bailed out along with hoi polloi? Morally no, financially most probably.

    Obama is trying to balance things out for the people ripped off, who have lost all their nest egg and who collectively pose a much greater danger to society than do stable, bill-paying, employed and middling-educated homeowners (however questionable their language skills might be, but that’s another story) who soldier on supporting the very poor and the very rich. The way things are going, they don’t have much hope to breaking into the latter, buy nobody benefits by their falling into the former.

    Yes, it comes down to a question of morality. The best conducted society acts for the greater good of all, not coming from government largesse, but from a greater consciousness of the consequences of their actions. Remember whom Dante consigns to the 9th circle of Hell: those who know the right but do the wrong. That surely would describe agents and lenders who deliberately set up decent, hardworking folk who may not happen to possess financial or linguistic sophistication.

    As for my own Point #1, we have been given the privileged right of freedom of speech: let’s use it responsibly and not let it degenerate into catcalls.

    • El Love

      talk about confusing the issue — you have done just that. I don’t care what language you speak — financial responsiblity is a universal language. If you can’t afford it, you don’t buy it. President Clinton, Barney Frank and company started this BS years ago by saying everyone deserved to OWN a home — I say “no they don’t”. If you can’t afford a home you don’t buy one. When I couldn’t afford to buy a home, I didn’t. I rented and worked harder and longer until I had enough savings and income to buy a home. NO ONE, and I mean no one, who lives above their means has the right to expect others to pay for it. Geez.

      Stupid is as Stupid does. Irresponsbility does not deserve reward.

      • DaveH

        Yep.
        Due to Ignorant Liberal Followers, who succumb to the Siren Song of Liberal Leaders, it’s almost impossible to save and pay cash for a home because the value of the Federal Reserve issued paper money falls faster than people can save the necessary money to buy a house with cash. And now, thanks to forfeiture laws, even if you were able to save enough cash, you run the risk of having it Confiscated by Evil Government Officials:
        http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=10635

  • ONTIME

    The more people the uncredentialed Mysery Man cons into giving up their home the more government intrusion he has achieved and the better his agenda of control looks. he is not helping the poor but he is screwing anyone with any means out of whatever assets thay have managed to hang onto in these politically depressed times to fulfill his policy of spreading your wealth….you will notice his life style continues to improve…

    Look at this way, he finds it comforting that he can talk you into lighting your candle at both ends and then telling you it will give more light and last twice as long, then laughs in your face and dares you to stop him.

  • Nick Mcg

    They are all idiots. When a bank “forgives” debt like this it is considered taxable income. So if a bank reduces principle by 100K you owe tax on 100K. These idiots think this is free? Wait until they get the 1099 for 100K. Of course they wont get them until after the election so it really doesn’t matter what they owe in back taxes.

  • Terry Davis

    Our society has come to acceprt government hand outs not realizing that it is leading our nation into becoming a socialist state which i believe is exactly what Obama wants. This will destroy our empiror just as it has destroyed the Roman and other past empirors. Where is my hand out:
    In 2004 I thought I was helping my daughter to begin purchasing a property as she has just filed bankruptcy having gon through a divorce. I made the down payment of 40,000 on a home costing 126,000 and established a 30 yeay mortgage which changed hands through no action of mine and wound up with Wells fargo Home Mortgage. My daughter was paying me the mortgage amount plus the cost of insurance, and taxes each month with some problems along the way with delays so I had to make the payment before she paid me. May of 2011 she and her husband, who she married in 2006 and whom was in such financial shape that he could not add to the payment as my contract called for to begin paying down the downpayment and other costs such as the replacement windows, moved and left me stuck with the property. It was a mess to repair and clean in preparation to place on the market in June 2011. It drew very little attention until the price was tropped for a thrid time to 75,000 which in itself is 13,000 less than is owed to the bank. It sold January 30, 2012 for 72,000 since I was required to pay the buyers closing costs plus the total costs will be closer to 10,000 so I will receive something like 64,800 and have to pay the bank 88,000 so I have to liquidate assets to come up with the 23,200 to pay the bank. At the time of the sale I had 138,000 in the property so my loss of 73,200 is wiping me out in my retirement so all the money I have saved for car and vacations is gone. I contacted Wells fargo and they will not give me a anything as an adjustment and because I have my own home I would have to take money from it and do not qualify for a short sale.

    Now with consideration of this situation and my being a responsible person who has avoided vacations and other ammenities throughout life so I could enjoy retirement and I get screwed by actions of my daughter with no help from the bank or other source. Lesson learned: DO NOT PROVIDE FUNDS TO YOUR RELATIVES OR FRIENDS FOR ANY REASON.
    Obamas move is purely political and will increase this countries already impossible debt as he has the Fed print some more funny money.

    • Patty

      If I were you, I might just cash out, hide it and move in with your daughter and live off of her for a while. Although, I already have a good idea how that would go….sorry to hear of your plight.

    • simian pete

      Terry,

      Forgive them. Life is to short, they are family.

  • El Love

    One more reason to hate this incompetent poseur — let’s continue to make those American’s who live responsibly pay again and again and again for those who don’t live responsibly.

    • FreedomFighter

      Unlike Obama we were Made in America

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sO6W9vZl5pM&feature=related

      The single most important task for the American People in 200 years:

      REMOVE BARAK H OBAMA FROM OFFICE

      Laus Deo
      Semper Fi

    • eddie47d

      That only proves that you support the huge war machine and contradicts some of your other videos. Which side of the Military Industrial Complex are you really on Freedom Fighter? You seem to be on both sides every other day.

  • Dee

    Either obummer is just plain stupid or he is doing this on purpose. He seems to want to
    ruin everythig. Hope the dummies that voted for him are sorry that they did.

    • Deerinwater

      Not at all, but Pleased ! Palin is back making moose chili and fewer political brainless remarks and Mc Cain is back being the stump broke maverick that he seems to enjoy being for the military complex.

      • DaveH

        Well, I’ll give you points, Deer, for admitting that you’re a “dummie”.

      • Deerinwater

        I’m not remotely interested in your points DavidH, I fail to find any value,thank you kindly, but feel free to put them where the sun don’t shine for future safe keeping.

        We’ve got Obama today because we don’t have McCain. Maybe you can take “your points” and try to argue that fact, it wouldn’t surprise me if you tried.

        Your points have little value to me or anyone for that matter.

        The way things are looking, you will be enjoying 4 more years of Obama, ~ can I count on you to wail and take on like a gut shot wilder beast for another 4 more years? I do look forward to it so. Show me your teeth! I want to see an ugly face. I want you to lash out at everything and everyone that offends.

        You are attracting big green Blow Flies buddy , they can smell rot and death for miles. I believe your condition in beyond superficial. Are you sure ,you don’t want to go to the doctor?

        Government is not going away just because you and I don’t like it. Maybe you need to make a bigger commitment to your convictions. Did you really think your one vote and a little lip service would stem the tide?

        We like our Merry -go -Round. My day is not complete until I’ve made several rounds.

        Attempting you elevate yourself by putting me down won’t offer you the altitude of ivory tower status that you attempt to pontificate from.

        Just another shut-in, quadriplegic, hiding from public view, licking abandonment issues like festered wounds. Some people have a social side that is developed and nurtured, clearly you project yourself as an island unto yourself for reasons only you “might” know.

        That’s fine with me David, but the gloves are off, no longer will I pamper to you and your nonsense. You want to play radical, ` lets play.

        • Patty

          I am sorry DeerUnderWater, but I find this comment of yours VERY offensive. “Just another shut-in, quadriplegic, hiding from public view, licking abandonment.” Why would you attack this group of people in a derogatory rant? Would you care to rephrase that at all? I work with and know many of the people you describe in that sentence from protecting your rights abroad. It is a daily struggle for them, being once an intact productive human being that at one time protected your right to rant like this.

      • DaveH

        What, Deerinheadlights, are you going to pummel me with Ignorance?

      • http://gravatar.com/hattles JeffH

        DaveH, that’s pretty much brrn Deer/Bob’s MO for quite some time…dazzle ‘em with BS and a heavy dose of “I know better than you even though I really don’t”…and what is the finisher are his final “leftist inspired” open attacks on anything and anyonefolks.

        “let’s take the gloves off”…now that’s one for the ages…some folks just keep me laughin’…so says the Jabberwocky! :)

  • old1

    This is like Robin Hood! We need to get with the Sheriff of Nottingham and chase this robing hoodlum down and drag his thieving azz to the guillotine for some much needed neck work!

  • El Love

    I am seeing a lot of talk about the 401k’s paying for this — about a year ago we heard that odumbo wanted to take our 401ks …. just imagine what he will do if he doesn’t have to worry about being re-elected. God help this country.

  • Buck

    We no longer have a president , we have a super Czar and a politboro . Welcome to the United Socialist States of America . I am so glad we no longer have to be responsible for our own freedom and the awesome responsiblities that requires of us .

  • Thinking About

    I am glad to know if you place earmarks in a bill on Congress it does not cost anything. I am also happy to know big bonuses was paid to executives with no oversight by Hank did not cost anything. I am also glad to know giving a no bid contract and little oversight did not ever go over budget. I would also like to see what source this money is coming, should come from the banks who did not mind ripping off folks.

  • Kris

    Socialism coming into play here. Yeah, let the government take care of everything. If you want a home, you’re guaranteed a loan, regardless of credit history. If you are unemployed, you can get a home loan, car loan, etc.

  • http://Personallibertydigest George Morrison …….Mayflower Decendant

    That obama is just like a kid in a candy store only problem is this ain’t his money and he really dont know when to stop and it also occurs to me that all the money he spends either gets wasted on a green energy company that goes bankrupt or we just don’t know where it actually winds up i.e. his campain fund our paid out to union thuggs and acorn as pay backs, I really think a special proscuter should be brought in th to investigate exactly whee all this money is going and inform the tax payers about this, if it is indeed honest transactions then ok but if these are shady deals then some justice needs to happen and send his butt to prison

  • KEN

    OF COURSE IT’S A DEAL FROM HELL !!!!!. OBAMA IS FROM HELL. HE’S SATAN IN THE FLESH. SATAN DOES NOT HAVE A BIRTH CERTIFICATE. OBAMA DOES NOT HAVE A BIRTH CERTIFICATE. THEY’RE ONE AND THE SAME. DON’T LET THE NAME DIFFERENCE FOOL YOU. HE IS OUT TO RULE THE WORLD. THAT IS HIS PLAN. ONE WORLD CURANCY, ONE WORLD CHURCH, ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT. AND THE STUPID PEOPLE OF THE WORLD WILL JUST RUN TO HIM AS BEING THEIR BIG HERO. WELL, YOU JUST RUN ! AND WHEN YOU GET PUSHED AWAY, KNOCKED DOWN, AND KICKED AROUND, REMEMBER ! YOU ASKED FOR IT.

    RON PAUL PRESIDENT 2012

    • Deerinwater

      Well, I was considering voting for Ron Paul ~ but if you are, I guess I’ll pass since I don’t share any of your other ideas at all.

  • http://gillysrooms.blogspot.com GILLYSROOMS from Australia

    Ellen says:
    February 17, 2012 at 9:40 am
    ” John, I agree. The first round of foreclosures was mostly people who couldn’t afford a house but got one because of foolish government policy. That started the economic downturn that began layoffs. Once laid off, it is nearly inpossible to keep your home because our safety net unemployment benefits are not a safety net at all. The average benefit is $300 per week. If you have a $1500 mortgage and a $300 car payment and a $200 auto insurance payment each month (very reasonable payments), you can’t make them with the pittance you get from unemployment. This doesn’t even begin to factor in food, utilities, and health insurance. The bottom line is that we don’t have a safety net for middle class & upper middle class people. The rich are self-sufficient. The ‘poor’ are provided for by our safety net. Why should a baby mamma with 5 illegitimate kids get to live off the government (taxpayers) while someone who has worked hard and lost their income loses everything they ever worked for? The social programs set up decades ago to avoid the problems of the Great Depression were hijacked by the Democratic party and welfare has become a way of life for generations of slackers. We need to re-do our unemployment compensation to make it effective and we need to stop paying women to have babies. We also need to end welfare for immigrants.”

    What Ellen said above is pretty much what is happening in Australia…the middle classes are getting squeezed and the non workers and non savers are living like kings compliments of both our governments generosity to keep them voting their way.

    But the policy of saving the banks is far more complicated than you can imagine…I would imagine or hope that the $2000 would go direct to the loan provider? and not the non prime house buyer or defaulter?

    The banks have borrowed $billions from various depositors in the USA and overseas including Australia. The USA depositors would be individuals both rich and lower clases, superannuation savers, corporations who employ workers, and all manner of depositors…you might be able to provide a better list than i can he from Australia. Then we have lots of our Australian local government Authorites who manage government and non government workers superannuation funds of those workers retirement funds, who lost $billions of sub prime loan funds based on poor unresearched advice given by those banks to our investors.

    So rather than letting your banks go totally broke and your millions of middle class depositors losing every dime in those accounts…your government now headed by OBAMA is attempting to save the balloon from busting totally. Instead of complaining and putting all stops to disrupt their various attempts to save private people money…your Republicans should be assisting to solve the problem, which cannot be solved by letting ALL your banks go broke. I dont believe many of your posters really realise how intertwined all the banks and your lending institutions are connected. Most of you posters would have at risk funds in the institutions which you might think are not connected to with the larger Banks currently in the mess they are in. Your government cant waste all their time debating who did what and who made the wrong decisions ..their priority task is to SOLVE the emeddiate problem…not of OBAMAs doing, but both Republicans & Democrats governments doing over a long period of time..

    This problem is ongoing and probably bigger than the Greek problem…and the antics I see going on in your parliament/congress by your foolish Republicans who want the benefits but not the measures are only serving against their own voters if one or more of the largest banks defaults ….there is likely to be a domino effect affecting all your savings …which might benefit our gold miners in Australia to open up some of the unprofitable gold mines in St Arnaud in Victoria 3478 where there are many proven underground gold mines but will it help the rich really or the middle classes who have investments in various intertwined corporations.

    Do you really believe some of your billion dollar corporations are going to have time to liquidate their business holdings and invest in gold? Whose going to buy them out and who is going to lend them the buy-out billions? Will they be expected to retrench all their staff and instead buy gold ?

    I’m sorry but some of you guys are small minded and belittling OBAMA for all the wrong and silly issues which have notyhing to do with the big issues at hand and have no idea whats going on in the back rooms of commerce. Times are scary and stressful yet your republicans are playing games which will result in the Republicans own supporters going stone broke. In my view you need to let OBAMA govern as he was elected to do…but by your creating these obstacles will only show the voters that you dont want to solve the problem now at hand. The politicians themselves are safe with a government pension but everyone else will be stuffed…

  • http://gillysrooms.blogspot.com GILLYSROOMS from Australia

    I should also add that our Australian Local government Authority investors who where advised by your big banks executives are not going to let them get away with it either as they are already involved in taking legal action to recover the $billions in lost Superannuation funds belonging to their contributing workers. These legal actions will takeyears to resolve and some of those executives will be going to jail i’m sure.

    So the OBAMA admistration should concentrate on saving your banking system while the investors, depositors and other stakeholders take the legal actions.

  • sesame

    Many did not buy over their heads. The bottom dropped out of the market and/or they lost their jobs. At the time they bought, they could afford their homes. Many purchases over their ability to pay was encouraged by the banks, who were later bailed out by Uncle Sam. So why should the banks be the only ones bailed out?

    • Patty

      Sesame (street) – If you didn’t pay cash for it, you bought over your head. It is called CREDIT.

  • Vicki

    There is another case that is not really covered in the article. Those of us who sold our homes when we accepted the fact that we could not pay the mortgage.

    • Deerinwater

      Good point Vicky! and you accepted your loses. This misfortune can and does fall many ways, rich in human dram, soul searching and reality checks.

      What opponents of this policy are suggesting is that; we’ve got more people in the water drowning then we have row boat and since we can’t save them all, we shouldn’t attempt to save any of them. They would just slow us down and maybe sink our row boat.

      Wouldn’t you have liked to have some help in your great time of need? But since you didn’t , I can see you feeling it unfair but isn’t that the way life works. I’ve never found life to be fair nor did anyone tell me that it would be.

      That I’m left paying for wars that I never approved of and vigorously opposed is not fair either. I’ don’t like it one bit but I’m left accepting the realities of my position.

      The attempt to make a bad situation better could be seen as unwise if only short term benefits is possible and the cost too high. This clearly is not the case.

      • DaveH

        Deer says — “What opponents of this policy are suggesting is that; we’ve got more people in the water drowning then we have row boat and since we can’t save them all, we shouldn’t attempt to save any of them. They would just slow us down and maybe sink our row boat”.
        No, Deer, we’re suggesting that when people make a contract, they abide by the terms they agreed to. If they don’t, they certainly don’t have a right to Force others to pay for their violations of that contract.

      • DaveH

        I realized my mistake shortly after making my comment. Expecting a Liberal (or in Deer’s case — budding Communist) to keep his Contractual Word is a bit of a stretch, isn’t it?

      • Vicki

        Deerinwater writes:

        What opponents of this policy are suggesting is that; we’ve got more people in the water drowning then we have row boat and since we can’t save them all, we shouldn’t attempt to save any of them.

        That is not even close to what the opponents are suggesting.

        Wouldn’t you have liked to have some help in your great time of need?

        Actually they did. I did not need the government to run out and take money (at gunpoint) from strangers to help me. I did as our forefathers intended and let my community know and the ones who could, stepped in and helped me move and recover.

        This is exactly what would happen if there were people in water drowning. People in the vicinity would jump in and help without any need for government to take money (at gunpoint) to then buy an environmental impact study on how best to rescue the drowning people without bothering some random fish. Of course the people would long since have become fish food.

      • Deerinwater

        That’s a nice story Vicky, while I would think, living through it by the minute was most stressful. Having done much the same thing myself without help other then family, it was a personal defeat I had to swallow. It was a bitten pill to accept a dime for a dollar.

        So if i’m permitted to ask, can you share with us how the “Community” assisted you with this “downsizing” while avoiding default?

      • Vicki

        Deerinwater writes:

        So if i’m permitted to ask, can you share with us how the “Community” assisted you with this “downsizing” while avoiding default?

        They helped me pack, they helped me sort, they helped me to stay sane, they helped me find a place I could afford to rent. They helped me move. I did the responsible thing of selling so that I would not default.

  • http://google tom castorani

    everthing that was posted might have truth or merit but its only a slice of the problem the think tanks that run this country are no longer american patiorts they think 10 steps a head of use vhow to ruin this country and hid the fact. that theone sided trade agrement was the beging raping this country of good paying jobs and drive are wage down and let all these new immigrents to fill these new low wage jobs they created the sheep to fill their numbers on paper, and ignore and illiminate the american patriots that made this country great do you realy think we have a broken borders with mexico,its was usa corporate PAY BACK in return for factorys in mexico not going union. they corp. they are out sourceing ever job in this country. they dont give those welfair moms everthing because they care its to keep them quiet. if fear their voice will get around the censored media.if you think back before all this happend to are country what did they do first like any war cut of are unity attacked the unions they could not picket with more the 5 picketers / attacked the roman catholic church, and if you think hard ronald reagon was not all that good but he said some truth we look for help from the goverment but there not the solotion their the problem. all politicians no whats going on their doing it. and if you want a taste of my story i built a house at the peak of realestate i $350,000 $100,000 down with out the extras out of pocket my house is not wort $180,000 now and my proptery taxes dobbled in 5 years my utitlys my cost of food my car insurance .my water bill. my morgage was never the problem its my job 30 years went to — $3500 week avarage to next to nothing and my wifes salery in casino coctail waitress went down to nothing and their will never be help for us they just let more foreighners in to fill their quotas.and stomp on me like i never existed

  • Larry

    I have a problem with the way banks went about conducting business in a shady manner. They were loaning to people with the intent of taking back houses and reselling them to make even more money. When things went sour they went running to the government for help and were given massive amounts of money which eventually went into the pockets of higher ranked employees. In the process, we the people got ripped off. Regular people that is. Nothing actually happened to the great majority of the rich. The common person got a lowered standard of life in the deal. The large banks have gotten ridiculous with the things that they do. My mom died all of a sudden. I pushed my final exams all ahead to the first day and left to attend the funeral. Upon returning home, I found a letter from Chase that informed me that my credit card with them had been closed. I went over my credit limit by $1.33 due to interest charges. They chose to put me on some sort of plan for 4-5 years. I had a problem with the fact that they wish to charge 12.5% interest for this. I had given permission for them to take $45/mo. After thinking about this and realizing that they were going to get $11/mo in interest from me on average, I chose not to renew my authorization for them to take any more payment when they called about it. Now they will get nothing else from me. I am a disabled veteran and did not get a raise in two years so that them and other banks were given money for screwing up their business. I do not think that they should have been money under Bush II, and, now, Bush III. At least Bush II gave a bit of chump change to us unfortunate souls. Any other business would have been laughed out of the door. In the end, we the people lose on this deal. I say that things should have been left alone where these banks are concerned. They should have been left on their own to fix the problems that they created unscrupulously out of sheer greed. All of the money that they received should have gone toward repaying the IOUs in social security and medicare with interest. It is high time that our government gets back to its original structure. Get rid of all of the thieves now in office and demand that there be some changes made that will do away with present unfairness for good.

    • Patty

      Larry, You are blaming the wrong people. The banks would never had loaned those people money had it not been for Clinton literally making them do it. He promised everyone the American dream of homeownership. He removed the glass-segal regs on the banks so that they could come up with products to help get unqualified people into homes. The Clinton administration threatned banks to give these loans or face discrimination lawsuits and threats of jail. This was soley perpetuated by the gov’t. promise and they didn’t care who, how or what was affected at the time or destroyed in the process. This is what happens when gov’t. intervenes into the natural market place.

      • Deerinwater

        Well Patty,your are right, but I didn’t find the evidence of thumb twisting that you describe, but should i expect too?

        “The National Homeownership Strategy began in 1994 when Clinton directed HUD Secretary Henry Cisneros to come up with a plan, and Cisneros convened what HUD called a “historic meeting” of private and public housing-industry organizations in August 1994. The group eventually produced a plan, of which Mason sent me a PDF of Chapter 4, the one that argues for creative measures to promote homeownership.

        The very worst idea in the plan, which fortunately never gained approval, was to let first-time homebuyers freely tap their IRA and 401(k) retirement-savings plans with no penalty to scrounge up a downpayment. That, HUD estimated, would have “benefited” 600,000 families in the first five years.

        Plenty of other ideas in the plan did become reality, though. Knowing what we know now about the housing bust, the earnest language in the document seems faintly ridiculous. Here’s an excerpt. Read it closely and you can see the seeds of disaster being planted:

        For many potential homebuyers, the lack of cash available to accumulate the required downpayment and closing costs is the major impediment to purchasing a home. Other households do not have sufficient available income to to make the monthly payments on mortgages financed at market interest rates for standard loan terms. Financing strategies, fueled by the creativity and resources of the private and public sectors, should address both of these financial barriers to homeownership.

        • Patty

          Larry or DeerUnderWater- You want to own a home? This is how I did it. I didn’t take vacations for a long time, I didn’t go out to eat hardly ever, I didn’t have the latest greatest gadget of the month. I didn’t buy new cars and/or lease. I worked OT, I worked a 2nd job. I put 24% down so I wouldn’t have the added monthly cost of mortgage insurance. We ate off of a card table and 4 chairs (6 people) the house echoed for at least 3 years.
          When I did buy furniture it wasn’t new and on credit, it was estate/garage sale the 1st time around for cash. Now I am at the point where I can re-decorate modestly when I want.
          As for the thumb twisting I have posted that before on how the gov’t. twisted the arms of bankers to make it happen. Here it is again. http://scottystarnes.wordpress.com/2010/10/17/evidence-found-clinton-administrations-bank-affirmative-action-they-forced-banks-to-make-bad-loans-video/
          http://www.pursuingholiness.com/la-times-blames-clinton-for-the-economic-crisis/
          These are different, but tells about the same as others that I have posted.They took a page from Rev. Jackson to blackmail corporations to hire affirmative action minorities and donate large sums to their “causes”. They are the root cause of this catastrophe from the evidence out there.

      • Deerinwater

        I own several and mineral rights Patty, but i still pay thousands of dollars in property taxes each year. .

        So maybe they are really not mine at all.

        • Patty

          I hear you on that one brother. The farm I bought 20 years ago, the taxes keep skyrocketing on the tillable. I have paid more in taxes the past 10 years than I paid for the property. Sorry to say, those big farmers in IA have yet to hit their own bubble and they are going to be in a world of hurt when that happens. This whole down swing is not nearly over yet.

      • Deerinwater

        Thanks for the links Patty, sadly the video containing the evidence in question is unavailable, U Tube states the “association with the party has been cancelled”

        The other link, I offer a paragraph with what “meat” I could find.

        From the LA Times 1992

        “All of this suggests that Clinton’s efforts to increase minority access to loans and capital also have spurred this decade’s gains. Under Clinton, bank regulators have breathed the first real life into enforcement of the Community Reinvestment Act, a 20-year-old statute meant to combat “redlining” by requiring banks to serve their low-income communities. The administration also has sent a clear message by stiffening enforcement of the fair housing and fair lending laws. The bottom line: Between 1993 and 1997, home loans grew by 72% to blacks and by 45% to Latinos, far faster than the total growth rate.”

        While I can’t see that as being very “damaging” , it is just a ” tid bit” from a “Conservative Blog” site.

        What we seem to be doing, is connecting the dots, ~ The addressing of “redline” banking discrimination is being linked to current default. While no dot is being offered that links massive job loss and economic down turns brought on by two unfunded wars and a administration that closed it’s eyes to national concerns while embarrassing international issues and big oil interest on a global stage.

        Or has There has been no dot offered to connect these particular “loans” with current default as well. The reader is left to “assume”

        But, allow us to be completely honest with ourselves here, Fewer loans equals fewer defaults and i’d be willing to assume the practice of making more loans with a lower qualifier a contributing factor to higher default rates.

        But to what end does all this talk serve us? Who is guilty? democrats, Bill Clinton?

        As I understand it, Newt Gingrich was in Fannie May 7 Freddie mac pocket to the tune several hundred thousand dollars at the time. If I’m not mistaking Newt is a registered GOP voter and stanch supporter of the party line.

        • Patty

          DeerUnderWater-I have posted many related links to Clinton strong arming the banks on this blog. Find one, I already did the work. Lazy liberals…

          • Deerinwater

            I’m not interested at this point, it’s rather clear your argument has holes in it you could drive a bus through. Just more Kool Aid presented by self indulging narcissistic people that attempt to hide behind a political label that don’t fit them well, claiming to be Christian Conservatives while attempting hiding their fears with crass arrogance while entertaining the devil and burning witches, an “offended” and noisy bunch of self righteous misfits hell bent to destroy anything that pales them.

            The “kind of help” anyone truly needs is the kind of help one can’t do for themselves. You can pack, you can move, you’ve got legs and arms.

            So your Community help, only lighten your labor. When you are thinking on a National scale a Uhaul trailer is not the only solution unless you are in the U haul business.

            I was think perhaps so local community effort might be having luck addressing these issues. I have helped with some legal aspect of it myself, assisted with the filing injunctions against judges and legal preceding. In many of these cases, the banks can’t even produce the legal instrument that shows who owns these homes. It was a fair question while you elected to show me your a$$.

            You lost your shirt and got a haircut and want everyone else to feel the pain. I understand.

            And calling me names is just a reflection on you and not me. But It does afford me the right and opportunity to respond to you in kind and expose your nature and temperament.

          • Patty

            Prove it. Show me the holes in my argument that Clinton strong armed the banks. And the rest of your post makes no sense and is ludicrous, so no comment.

      • Patty

        DeerUnderWater – You are trying to blow political smoke up the wrong ass. I can’t stand either “side” (more so progressives). My next move will be to move “under ground” or Costa Rica while flying under the radar. Playing legal, fair and by the rules doesn’t cut it in the “new” America. I don’t like the new game, so I will probably get out and come back after the progressives finish destroying this country. I will help to rebuild it, I refuse to help destroy it. I’m flexible that way.

      • Deerinwater

        Belize is nice, fishing is great! I am usually down in Mexico or work in the ship yards on the Texas coast this time of year , not returning til late April or mid May.

        I hate it here as well. There just too many people that are nasty, unhappy and the air stinks.

        But Mexico has become to unstable in recent years and my business commitments too grand to leave anymore. I’m stuck ~ but you have fun.

        and don’t call me names that don’t fit.

        • Patty

          Use to love Mazatlan a couple times a year. Not safe to go into Mexico anymore and I can’t stand “all inclusives”. Have a couple of friends that have and/or are in the process of going to Costa Rica. What was the name? (Lazy Liberals?)

  • not suckered by cons

    This article is a scam. Ask yourself how the second person in the example got approval of their loan with nothing down. A banker approved it. Otherwise its not possible. It’s obvious they wanted that person to get the house they couldn’t afford. This happened before the market, and banks collapsed, during Bush admin. They created a bubble but timed it wrong. They wanted to be out when it burst. The banks then illegally foreclosed on these people and are now being brought to a form of justice, tho not enough. They should be in jail. They have to pay restitution. Maybe they shouldn’t have gave themselves all those billions in bonuses. So Obama is looking out for them. This is no punishment for buyer one but restitution to buyer two that the banks screwed. This article is how the crooks try to then justice against their crimes inside out. Pure bs.

  • not suckered by cons

    Full of inaccuracies and propaganda.

    • Patty

      If you want to be deemed credible, don’t throw out adjectives like inaccuracies and propaganda without backing it up. Care to explain what is inaccurate or propaganda?

  • simian pete

    It seems the our benevolent President will have many grateful recipients come Election Day !

    I didn’t buy a home, been living in the same apartment for 21 years….. I’ve been unemployed for 5 years. What’s in it for me ?

    That’s a very good question. You have to be honest with yourself. Face up to the facts ! IF YOU AREN’T FINANCIALLY INDEPENDENT, A HOUSE IS JUST AN INVESTMENT !
    Figure it out …. See how much money you could save by ditching the house and moving into a medium-cost , safe apartment …..

    You could take the savings and invest in your future. Start your own business, invest in stock/options or get a practical education into some livelihood/trade ! State schools still are fairly cheap $ – get a degree in Finance !!!!!

    Just some suggestions ……

    • Patty

      You are so right. If I wasn’t so far into the “investment”, I would never buy a house again. Between maint, taxes, repairs, interst if you have a note, added utilities, it is a losing proposition. I try to let all people thinking of buying a house, the actual cost.

      • Deerinwater

        I understand, once bitten twice shy!

        But, the lion always lords over the water hole. Anytime you go to drink, he may be there.

        The current system is set up to milk the American people dry, exactly like DavH explains it so well.

        But you don’t have to feed the lion every time you need a drink of water if you are careful and mindful of his presence.

        • Patty

          I don’t worry about the “lion”. I pack for him. And I take as much water as I can carry whenever I want because it happens to be my watering hole that lion is trespassing on so he better be wary and stay out of sight. Or better my sites.

          • Deerinwater

            That’s the spirit!

            Now understand that the Lion is a shape shifter, taking on many forms and he’s hides at and around all locations where you commit to investing or just spend your money.

          • Patty

            I don’t know what kind of kool-aid you have been smokin, drinkin or droppin, but you can keep it to yourself.

      • Patty

        DeerUnderWater – I find you more than boorish.

        • Deerinwater

          well, at least you found me and this isn’t the “Love Boat”

          So? How do you like me now?

          • Patty

            About the same. You have given me no reason to change my mind.

  • Lisa Scharin

    Well, I owned a condo and when I bought it, I could afford it. Than my hours began to decrease little by little. I did “odd” jobs, here and there to help fill in, but there wasn’t much work around. It become increasingly difficult to pay my mortgage AND every thing else require JUST TO LIVE! Thankfully Obama implemented the Mortgage modifification program, so I enroled in that and that was a tremendous help, BUT the area I wa living in was becoming more unsafe and going “downhill” with values on homes, etc. plunging too, I did NOT want to stay in the area. I did a “short sale”, which took over 6 months to do and wa like a part-time job to get it done. My condo sold for 38,000.00!!!!!!!!!!!! I bought it at 85,000.00 4 years before!!!
    So when you talk about “slackers” who are they, really??? MOST people who are in foreclosure and have gone through it did so because of a job loss, reduced hours and of course the greed of Wall Street and the financial industry. They gambled with people’s homes and should be in JAIL, EVERY ONE OF THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Many people who lost their homes were professionals, responsible, hard-working people who just wanted to have a place of their own and part of the so called “American Dream”!!! WOW!!!!!!!!!!!! To NO fault of MANY of them, they found themselves in DIRE STRAITS!!!!!!!!
    Guess you like Romney’s proposal to just let people get foreclosed on, lose their homes and move into a box on the street, under a bridge or into a shelter????!!!!!!!! WOW!!!!
    I applaud Obama for implementing the programs that he is to help people just STAY AFLOAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOW ALL WE NEED TO DO IS TAX THE 1%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Who are the people who can still afford their homes AND a European vacation, NEW car, boat, etc!!!! We are talking about a ROOF OVER PEOPLE’S HEADS!!!
    How callous this writer is!!!!!!!!!

    • Patty

      Hmmm, lets see Lisa, you bought at the peak, right? You bought with little to nothing down, right? If you would have known anything financially, you would have known that it was NOT the time to buy. But, you bought anyways because you didn’t have to put anything down because there was this big gov’t, program that would “entitle” you to buy something with easy money via gov’t. programs. Am I right? And you bought into it, hook, line and sinker. The 1%ers pay there fair share especially considering 50% pay nothing. Lets go to user fee taxes and see how much you would really be paying. Why does everyone blame all the wrong people. It was gov’t. who came up with these programs to entice people into this. It was your gov’t. who took you to the cleaners and they used the banks to do it. WAKE UP and get some knowledge or shut up.

    • DaveH

      You want to know why you’re struggling, Lisa? It’s called Big Government. A Government that spends 42% of our GDP.
      Imagine being in a family of 5, and having 2 of them doing absolutely nothing but interfering with the productivity of the other 3, and taking 2/5 of your financial resources. That is what Big Government is doing to our country, and you think we need More?

      • Deerinwater

        Well worded argument.

        If Lisa and other’s had not addressed their housing needs when they needed them what might have been the result? A lessen of demand while demand was actually high? Lower prices? A slower national economy?

        It appears that an illusion was crafted that made it appear as a ‘buyers market” while it was actually a “sellers market”. Incentives were put in place to buy.

        What options did a person in the market for housing at that point in time have?

        Rent? and decline any notions of acquired equity? Rent and get less while paying more?

        Move in with family and wait out the unknown for any yet to be determined length of time?

        Buy a tent?

        Any home purchases is predicated on the ability to earn .

        This “ability to earn” was not in question or a major consideration at the time of these sales. On the surface, even John McCain thought the economy was stable as late as 2008.

        I do not believe it is necessary for there to be victims for an economy to flourish. I do not believe in require “fools” to be fooled, but only dishonest people.

        The argument being offered here, is that Obama is screwing up everything! While in fact, it been a long time coming as he attempt to react to it. While a industrial nation awakes for a comma after a self inflicted gun shot wound.

      • DaveH

        How many times did I say anything about Obama, Deer?
        And why do you think somebody else needs to protect you from joining in a contract that goes bad for you? You’re a Big Boy (or Girl). Can’t you decide for yourself if the deal you make is a good one or bad one? If you can’t make that decision intelligently, then join an investment club, or buy advice from somebody who knows. Again, there is absolutely nobody (except Big Government) who assumes the power to force you to enter into any contract or purchase.
        What you are apparently advocating is to overturn a valid contract and rule for the loser in the transaction, and against the party who is abiding by the contract (the Mortgagee).
        As another commenter has stated, you don’t have to borrow money to buy your target property. You can always save up and buy it without a loan if you don’t like the terms that the Mortgagee is offering.

      • DaveH

        And waking up the Nation, Deer, will not come from Ignorant Progressives. How many times do I have to post this reality of actual World Experience with Big Government?
        The economy grows inversely with the size of Government. What more proof does one need to provide to demonstrate that Leftist ideals are a failure?
        http://heritage.org/index/ranking
        Left Liberal ideals are not only Immoral, but they just don’t work for anybody but those Leaders and their Cronies who benefit at the expense of everybody else.

        • Patty

          Yep. Those same cronies that donate millions to keep him in there to promise the sheeple he will help sustain them so that the cronmies can continue on their mission. Dave H – Have you ever noticed how the politicians have had other family members in politics, kind of like passing down the “family business”. It should be like a cancer and skip a generation. And they also run corporations, or relatives run corporations that benefit from the pay-outs?

      • DaveH

        Yes I have, Patty. Here is a very good book describing how Government and their Crony Capitalists work hand in hand to feather each other’s nests:
        http://www.amazon.com/Big-Ripoff-Business-Government-Steal/dp/0471789070/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1329679847&sr=8-1

      • DaveH

        I have already posted this link, but I will post it again for those that missed it earlier:
        http://reason.org/blog/show/mortgage-settlement-misses-point
        The settlement sets aside only a small portion (less than 10%) of the settlement actually goes to victims of wrongful foreclosures. The rest rewards people who didn’t fulfill the terms of their contracts at the expense of other people who engaged in no wrong doing.

      • DaveH

        We have become a Society of Criminals where a large portion of the population (yes, Deer , you are one of them) has assumed the right to ride on the shoulders of other good people:
        http://mises.org/daily/4125

      • Deerinwater

        Not a criminal but a pirate perhaps, there is a difference. It’s a question of sanction and commission and by whom.

        Beside, you are in no position to speak of criminals David, so why bring it up? It’s government that writes laws and criminals that break them. It’s God that gave us Laws to live by and you’ve voices time and time again little regard for either. So a Sinner and Criminal should be your kind of guy if you can be held responsible for your own words.

        While you are simply a man with few life experiences to share and a head full of someone else’s ideas while few of your own and still you speak as if you know me enough to judge me. Not to overlook the fact that you think you know what is best for not just all of America but the world.

        My, my, my, those are a might large pair of shoes you are trying to wear!

        For a man that serves neither God or Country, exactly what is your purpose for being? Much less being here? What do you care? Again I ask you, who is your Master? Your arrogance seems void of any boundaries and knows no limits DavidH.

        Why not write your own manifesto DavidH? Could you do it without plagiarizing somebody? I seriously doubt it. I question if you can even step into the light and be seen for what you are. It’s best that you hide in the ambiguity of cyber space and direct your spit balls.

        back on topic, ~ All of this talk, of the evils of left or right is simple an attempt to divert as many voters attention as possible away from what’s really important and happening today. The people that make big decisions that affect us all does not want your attention on them.

        It will be two years from now before we learn the significance of what happen today while we wallowed in the mud and enjoyed this debate over history that can’t be changed.

        History repeats itself, no matter how hard we try to prevent it. The old Trogan horse trick still work as well today as it did centuries ago. Remember the promise we vet’s made to each other, “No more Nation building” I guess McCain AND “W” and the 111th Congress didn’t get the memo?

  • jopa

    Everyone always short changes the Bush bailout.It wasn’t just 700billion for Wall street, it was actually 816 billion from the Treasury,.7 billion from FDIC and from the Federal Reserve 3.9 trillion.That was one of the if not the largest theft in world history and the scams pulled by Halliburton and Whitewater are not far behind.This and the Bush prescription plan not paid for, tax breaks for the richest, two unfunded wars and people wonder why this country is in such a mess.Blame Obama for this.You would have to be a real idiot.Obama is finally getting us a little way out of the ditch without the support of the GOP.

    • DaveH

      Who got the Obama stimulus, Jopa? Certainly not me or any of my friends. Don’t think, though, that that would have made it any more ethical:
      http://stimuluspackagedetails.com/total.html

    • DaveH

      After the Leaders have impoverished our country (and they will, it is inevitable), where is the money going to come from to keep paying the Welfare recipients, the Social Security recipients, and anybody else who currently is dependent on Government?
      When that time comes, the people who will be best suited to survive will be those who have educated themselves. Those who have let the Government turn them into Dependents will be the first to suffer greatly. And even if the Leaders really did want to help you (they don’t, they’re just buying your votes), they won’t be able to — the Cookie Jar will be empty.
      All of us need to get smart and learn what’s really going on with Big Government. We need to get our country back to Free Markets, Limited Government, Personal Responsibility, and Individual Liberty. With that would come great Prosperity for the average citizens. The Leaders would lose a lot of their Power and Perks, and their Crony Capitalists would have to start competing in Free Markets, unprotected by their Political Cronies, but the rest of us, including the Market Entrepreneurs (as opposed to Political Entrepreneurs) would prosper.
      Vote Libertarian — Break Free from your Chains:
      http://libertarianparty.com/platform

    • COAL MINER

      Why don’t we call it Bush Gate?

  • Deerinwater

    Good posting “jopa” and Lisa, sorry to hear about your short sell hair cut. There a hundred different ways it can go down. Bleed and fight it all the way to the end.

    The writer and his supporters are attempting to validate their convictions about the role of government but more then that , discredit, debase and attempt to “devalue” any progress the current administration has achieved. He was never they choice but they held their nose and voted for Mc Cain while I doubt if they might have cared much for his leadership either. Mc Cain couldn’t clean up spilled coffee with a paper towel and was clueless to America’s financial condition and indicative of most statesmen on the HILL of the day. That GWB warned of a housing bubble is surprising that he may have even known but not surprising it went un-addressed. Bleeding 20 million American jobs a month will create it’s on set of problems.

    But this jaded, disenfranchised political rancor is just a by-produce of far right wing thinking. They are the baby boomers that witnessed America at it Zenith and yearn for it’s return, thinking that somehow that might be possible. If “just” only !

    We are to pick and chose what they wish to see and accept only what supports our beliefs.

    That the Clinton administration seen time of abundance, where America keep a tighter reins in committing to foreign affairs, unemployment was low and home ownership encouraged by the administration is now used as ammunition for some feeble effort to defer the results of poor GOP leadership resulting in the loss of jobs to pay for them.

    You got to hand it to them, that is clever! There is just enough element of truth in it to make it understandable and believable.

    You go buy something and then lose your ability to pay for it and it’s your fault , that seems simple enough, a hard argument when it’s put that way.

    Homeowners deserving no concessions and no considerations and no exception in the name of “fairness” to all tax payers while Wall Street enjoys Bail outs, record profits and performance bonuses. Local governments enjoyed an inflated tax base, Realtors enjoyed their 5%, title companies, government regulating offices, contractors, inspectors and appraisers get their cut and somehow mortgage lenders were unhappy and being forced to lend out money? I don’t think so. You will need to sell this package to someone else while I do understand your argument.

    That Some wish to avoid the reactionary effort on the part of government in understandable. For after all, Government “touched it”!

    I understand the concept, I work in a professional environment where not all, but many of my customers hold me accountable for everything that I “touch” . I can’t be clumsy but I have to sometimes remind people if they were not having any problems, why did they summons me? That I didn’t design it, build it or sell it and my responsibility has limits that their expectations supersedes.

    Making government the whipping boy for everything that is wrong in the world is not difficult, but very easy. And that what we do today.

  • DaveH

    Deer says — “But this jaded, disenfranchised political rancor is just a by-produce of far right wing thinking”.
    As usual, with no provocation, he/she resorts to personal epithets.
    Your ignorance is appalling, Deer. But I’m glad you and your fellow Liberals post here, so other readers can see the mentality of the people who want to control our lives.

    • Deerinwater

      Me too David! I enjoy offing counter spin to your pitch.

      and when I said, “The argument presented here” it was not directed at you. I understand that you are a “Big Picture” guy and you are right perhaps, in that it’s global. You are right, in many ways. However the cast is set, resistance is futile. I would ask you to consider reading futuristic books and novels to see what might be in store for mankind.

      But for good reason, David ~ you have no choice in the matter, you too will take the merry-go-round ride and at days end, we’ll all end up at the same place.

      Life is about the ride and not the journey David.

      Disappointed? You shouldn’t be.

  • ranger hall

    ITS Not the Tax Payers Job to bail out Private Industry,
    In a Bad Economy, IT is in the Interest of the BANKS and MORTGAGE cos TO LOWER INFLATED INTEREST RATES,and also LOWER INFLATED PROPERTY VALUES.To keep People in these Homes.
    WHY Because the Home owner Use to pay for UPKEEP, and PROPERTY TAXES. NOW the Banks and Mortgage Cos NOW are Stuck with these BILLS.And is not receiving any income from them.
    Big Money, Big Govt., started the Problem. Little People just go along with what they are presented with.Hoping to just share a little in the American Dream.

    • Patty

      Big Gov’t. MADE Big Money do this. They made the banks make money available to people who could not pay it back or were huge risk loans. That forced the inflation of house prices. It is called supply and demand. Whenever the gov’t. gets its big fat dirty hands in anything, they screw it up. SO now when every one was guaranteed to get a loan it drove up the house prices because there were not enough houses which created the building boom in housing. Sooner or later, that house of cards that the gov’t started in the first place is going to fall, and it did. Do you understand it yet? It is the government that started this entire mess. So, lay blame where it belongs and I can’t explain it any simpler than that.

  • ranger hall

    Remember Folks these same People that WE bailed out was Making BILLIONS off Inflated Interest rates For many Years.
    The Banks DO not want the Property NOW, They will wait UNTIL we Have Sunk into a Major Depression and Property go down to Nothing, Then WE will have WW3 or something, The Economy will start going UP and then these Banks Will Sale these Properties For BILLIONS,and BILLIONS of Dollars in Profit, I think thats what happened in our 1st One.

    • Patty

      You Think???? I don’t think you think at all. Baseless + factless = mindless.

      • Deerinwater

        ranger hall is correct Patty, it’s been done before and there is nothing to prevent it for happening again. The bankers play with loaded dices, 7′s will start falling and they won’t stop until they are tied of playing.

        That you can’t accept it is misfortunate but you seem to shooting with a several stokes handicap. But why the mean ole stuff? It only returns. You must like life “ruff”

        http://player.vimeo.com/video/22132017?title=0&byline=0&portrait=0

        • Patty

          Thanks. Nice video. Funny you should pick TX, I will be there next month.

        • Patty

          PS-He made no point, he didnt back anything up. Pretty useless.

      • Deerinwater

        Well, true that it wasn’t developed well or supported but I understood his “drift” and couldn’t fault him for it. I was looking for the link I knew that could, but failed to find it quickly so I offered you Texas as I know her instead. It’s got it’s own kind of “pretty” ~ a little air brushing and any lady is a darling. American is full of beautiful country.

        The link I was looking for is “FUN” ,1 1/2 hours long and covers a lot of history and data. At one hour and three minutes into it, events are exposed that rings bells, shots off flared and makes you mad as hell. It’s like the Florida “No see’em” mosquitoes, you know something has been biting the soup out of you but you can’t see it to know what it is. ~ let me try again, it’s worth the time for anyone that enjoyed knowledge and appreciates the pursuit.

        http://youtu.be/U71-KsDArFM

    • Patty

      Ranger, Ranger, Ranger – The interest rates were not inflated. The interest rates when people got an “arm” loan were UNDER the at the time current interest rate so that the people could afford to buy a home in the first place. Most arms were 2-5 years. In that time, the homeowner was suppose to increase their wage and were expected to re-finance their home before the new interest rate kicked in. Which by the way, it really wasn’t a lower interest rate, what they did was tack the balance of interest onto the back end of the mortgage. It was spelled out in every single mortgage contract what the deal was and how much they were going to be paying. They only have themselves to blame. And the people who kept taking “home equity” loans out on their inflated house price to live beyond their means and buy a new SUV that lasts 5-7 years on payments that last 15-20 years. Are you kidding me??? You just can’t fix stupid.

      • Deerinwater

        i’d call 12 to 14% inflated and I remember a time when they were common. I was beginning to think buying a house out of the question or realm of probably as i needed housing. Shortly after they when down to 9 , I bought for 9.2%

        What would you call a 14% mortgage loan?

  • http://twitter.com/DarTAZ Darell T (@DarTAZ)

    It is a Democratic campaign stunt, taking credit for even more welfare at the expense of the responsible taxpayer-not directly but in the end.

    Big government must be cut down drastically, it needs to be returned to the people instead of the current Communistic state.

    There’s only one candidate that aims to do just that; Ron Paul who the press and the GOP has openly lied about! Paul Won the campaign in Maine, they went public before all the votes were counted. See for yourself:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=cBx__69pkpY

  • L Pearl

    Giving money to home owners from the banks equals giving money to the banks and companies to help save the USA

  • newspooner

    Great article, Chip! I noticed that you referred to Gary Bauer as a friend. I thought of him as a friend, too, until he started smearing Ron Paul. What’s wrong with Gary?

  • newspooner

    I lthink you should write an article about racism and the Abigail Foster case. Let’s really put it to the racists in Washington. Now is the time to take advantage of this.

    • COAL MINER

      I agree!

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