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Obama confronts critics on healthcare

August 12, 2009 by  

Obama confronts critics on healthcare In an effort to dispel what he sees as misconceptions about the proposed healthcare reform, President Obama addressed a town hall meeting in New Hampshire on Tuesday.

His appearance was partially motivated by the increasingly vocal protests of opponents of the reform who challenged speakers at a number of recent town hall meetings including those held in Pennsylvania and Missouri led by Democratic senators Arlen Specter and Claire McCaskill.

In New Hampshire, Obama sought to counter claims made by some Republicans, including Sarah Palin, that the new reform will usher in so-called "death panels" to decide whether seniors or people with disabilities would get healthcare.

The president said those who spread similar rumors profit from the "status quo," and added that what really scares him is the prospect of failing to reform the current system which "too often works better for the insurance industry than it does for the American people."

Obama also claimed nobody will be forced to give up their current insurance, and the law contains no provisions to cut Medicare benefits

While Democrats hailed the New Hampshire meeting as setting a new standard for democratic discourse, critics alleged it hand-picked "Obama fans" who failed to ask him tough questions.

They have also countered the Democrats’ claim the recent other town hall meetings protests have been orchestrated by opponents of the legislation, including Republicans as well as the healthcare and pharmaceutical industry, saying people are genuinely worried about the reform and they exercise their First Amendment rights.

The healthcare reform bill is due to be debated in Congress in September.

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  • The Insurgent

    Is Teddyboy Kennedy dead already? I HOPE SO. THIS COMMIE PUNK SHOULD DIE AND DIE IN HELL!
    Here’s what this bonehead commie wants for Americans:
    At long last, Teddyboy Kennedy has partially revealed the health care system he wants to foist on the whole country — and it isn’t pretty.
    It won’t be pretty for your pocket book… OR FOR YOUR GUN RIGHTS!

    But first, let us explain what TeddyCare is all about.

    At the center of the plan is what’s called a “universal mandate.” What this means is that you — and virtually everyone in the country — will have to buy as much health insurance as the government demands, and that insurance plan will actually have to be approved by the government.
    If you work for a small business, the business will buy the insurance on your behalf. But you may be saddled with an enormous part of the cost. And, if the employer’s contribution is too large, you will be fired.
    If you fail to buy TeddyCare, as the government orders you to do, the IRS will fine you, garnish your wages, put a lien on your house, and, ultimately, put you in prison.

    How much will you have to spend on your TeddyCare insurance? Teddy’s not saying.
    The portion of your paycheck that will have to be forked over to Teddy’s latest social experiment will be revealed ONLY AFTER THE MASSIVE HEALTH CARE BILL IS SIGNED INTO LAW.
    This should set off alarm bells in your brain, because, for instance, the average family policy is currently $12,700. “So,” proclaims Teddy, “everyone’s going to get a subsidy to pay for this.” There’s going to be a “chicken in every pot,” and no one’s going to have to pay for it.

    Yeah, right. If you’re a welfare (negro or mexican) mother, the government will pay for your TeddyCare, and it would pay for it — the first time — by taxing employer-provided health benefits of working Americans. But if you a “working Joe” (i.e.; White male or woman) your Teddyboy Kennedy-subsidy will be a microscopic fraction of the cost of your mandated TeddyCare insurance policy.
    Okay, all of this sounds ominous… but why is this a gun issue?

    The answer is that TeddyCare will allow radical left Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius to determine all of the fine print in every TeddyCare policy — which you will be required to buy under penalty of imprisonment.
    Currently, as a result of the stimulus bill and a whole lot of other factors, the government is rapidly moving in the direction of computerizing all of your most confidential medical records and putting them into a federal database.
    So remember when your son was asked by his pediatrician about your gun collection? That would be in the federal database. Welcome in the SovietUnion! We want your guns to let run our marxist-socialist hellT

    Or remember when your wife told her gynecologist that she had regularly smoked marijuana ten years ago — thereby potentially barring both her and you from ever owning a gun again? That would be in the database.
    Or if a military veteran complains to his psychiatrist that he’s had emotional stress since coming back to the States, that would be in the database. Welcome in Soviet-America!
    Or remember when gramps was diagnosed with Alzheimer’s, thereby making him a “mental defective” who would have to relinquish his life-long gun collection? That’s in there too.
    And, while we are dangerously close to allowing BATFE to troll all of that information, TeddyCare would allow Sebelius to put EVERYONE’S private data in a database with a stroke of a pen.

    When we say “everyone,” we don’t mean quite everyone.
    Madman commie TeddyboyTeddy has conveniently excluded Washington bureaucrats from his TeddyCare mandate. (Well, his idols such as Lenin, Trockij, and Stalin had privileges too…)
    Also, MadmanTeddy and his zionbolsheviks friends in the media don’t want you to hear about the details until after the bill is passed. That’s why they’re trying to slam it through within the next month and a half before anyone’s had a chance to read or debate it.
    In fact, the TeddyCare proposal is currently circulating around Capitol Hill without even a bill number.

    ACTION: Urge your two U.S. Senators to oppose communist idiot and braindead Teddyboy Kennedy’s mandate that will result in the registration of all your gun information. Please use the Gun Owners Legislative Action Center to send your Senators the pre-written e-mail message below.

    And devil, please! Take this madman Teddyboy Teddy Kennnnnedy to hell now…! Shalom!

    • DaveH

      There is only one party in this country that believes in strict Constitutional law and has no religious axe to grind. I say that because the Constitutional party is close but with heavily religious overtones in their platform. Mind you, I have no problem with religious people, and probably trust them more than I trust non-religious people. That party is the Libertarian party. If you believe in their ideas but think you are throwing away your vote, then at least register as a Libertarian so they can start growing to the size that will make it impossible for the major media to ignore them, and then vote for whoever you want.
      Here is a link to their party platform:
      http://www.libertarianparty.org/platform

    • Foolpatrol

      “If you fail to buy TeddyCare, as the government orders you to do, the IRS will fine you, garnish your wages, put a lien on your house, and, ultimately, put you in prison.”

      Your ignorant, racist, rant is astonishing! You really should get off the Meth! A little prison time could help. You’ll have time to detox.

      • DaveH

        Fool,
        Straight from the http://www.opencongress.org:

        SEC. 59B. TAX ON INDIVIDUALS WITHOUT ACCEPTABLE HEALTH CARE COVERAGE.
        31
        ‘(a) Tax Imposed- In the case of any individual who does not meet the requirements of subsection (d) at any time during the taxable year, there is hereby imposed a tax equal to 2.5 percent of the excess of–
        ‘(1) the taxpayer’s modified adjusted gross income for the taxable year, over
        ‘(2) the amount of gross income specified in section 6012(a)(1) with respect to the taxpayer.

        • Bob

          I just looked through the bill. There is no section SEC. 59B. The bill starts at SEC 100. Are you sure this section really exists?

          • DeniseC

            Pages 167, 168 of the PDF – of course you need to be a lawyer to understand any of this but there it is….
            Title IV Amendments to Internal Revenue Code of 1986
            Subtitle A-Shared Responsibility
            Part 1-Individual Responsibility
            SEC.401. Tax on Individuals Without Acceptable Health Care Coverage
            (a) In General.-subchapter A of chapter 1 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 is amended by adding at the end the following new part:
            ‘‘PART VIII—HEALTH CARE RELATED TAXES
            SUBPART A. TAX ON INDIVIDUALS WITHOUT ACCEPTABLE HEALTH CARE COVERAGE.
            Subpart A—Tax on Individuals Without Acceptable Health Care Coverage
            Sec. 59B. Tax on individuals without acceptable health care coverage.
            SEC. 59B. TAX ON INDIVIDUALS WITHOUT ACCEPTABLE HEALTH CARE COVERAGE.
            (a) TAX IMPOSED.—In the case of any individual who does not meet the requirements of subsection (d) at any time during the taxable year, there is hereby imposed a tax equal to 2.5 percent of the excess of—
            (1) the taxpayer’s modified adjusted gross income for the taxable year, over
            (2) the amount of gross income specified in section 6012(a)(1) with respect to the taxpayer.

          • DaveH

            Yes Bob,
            I’m sure. The section in my comment was cut and pasted from the bill as listed on the mentioned website. I know it is hard to find it in 1000+ pages.

      • DaveH

        Fool,
        I have been self-insured my entire life (60 now). I have also been ill since 26 (flu-like symptoms about 2-3 times a week). But, I worked and paid taxes anyway (including medicare taxes). I and anyone else in my family have never enslaved anyone, yet you want to enslave me (yes it is enslavement to make me pay money for something I don’t believe in) and take away my choices. I have not ever and will never force someone else to carry me. You can placate your conscience all you want with the fabrication that you are more intelligent than others, but the truth is that you are behaving no better than the white southern slaveowners who enslaved the blacks.

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          Thank you Dave. I am 51 and have always had to pay for my insurance premiums through work, and Ive never ever wanted for any medical care. Sure, it could be and even should be cheaper, but it is still the best in the world, and all these people that want to use political agenda to fight me on it, cannot answer why those in free health care nations come here to have medical procedures, and willingly pay for it, rather than wait in line for the free care in their country. Pretty darn easy to figure that out, and if someone doesnt agree that we have the best, then they have a political ax to grind. I dont care if Abe Lincoln or George W. Bush wanted nationalized health care, I dont, because it isnt good. Hypochondriacs around the world are allready lining up around the block, and those who really need attention arent going to get it in time. Fact. And I allready pay for enough government handouts, without paying for their medical too.

    • http://donthaveone Mark

      Ted Kennedy is, and has been, and evil bastard for years and years. He was allowed to legally murder Mary Jo Kopechne and nothing was ever done to him, because of the Kennedy’s power and influence. And do you know how the Kennedy’s got this money and power? Joe Kennedy was a rotten S.O.B. that sank peoples business and he was an illegal bootlegger with mob ties. The good book says the sins of the forefathers shall be revisited upon 3 generations, so it is no wonder why all this crap keeps happening to the Kennedy’s. Until someone finds Jesus in that family to break the ancestral sin, its going to keep going. Look what happened to Joes kids – Joe. Jr. killed, JFK killed, Bobby killed, Ted is a killer and a drunk. Look at their kids. JFK Jr. killed, Bobby’s kid, what was his name, David maybe, overdosed and died. Ted’s kid lost his leg. Bobby Jr. is whacked out on the green thing. Now thier kids are starting to bear the brunt of this. I agree, anything that comes from the mind of Ted Kennedy, is not good for America or the American people.

    • http://naver Brady

      Insurgent, before I tear you apart on line I want to tell you that you have made some good and bad points on your comments about health care. Now, I don’t think Ted Kennedy is a communist. He may have ideals that are different than the average American, but he’s not like Stalin, Lenin, or others from modern Russian History. I do agree that forcing people to pay for others or for something you don’t want is a bad thing for our country to do. I also don’t believe is supporting people that can work, but choose not to. I don’t know much about the racial comments that you made, so I won’t go there. I’ve paid my way my whole life and I won’t stop now. I have 4 kids and a wife. I can’t afford to pay for anyone else at this time, or any other time. I served this country for 20 years and am, pardon my expression, damn proud of it. In my hometown in Indiana, there are people that are on these unconstitutional social programs. One of them told me that welfare paid them more than a job would pay them. Indiana is also giving aid to Mexicans (sorry about mentioning a race) who do not deserve it. Like WIC. If you read the book given to people in Indiana, the first rule for receiving any aid is: “Must be a U.S. Citizen”. I’m trying to make sense of this, so I’m sorry if I sound confused. If you have a comment, please leave one in good taste. Insurgent, since you said “Shalom”, it may lead me to believe that you are Jewish. If you are, you should be careful with what you say about other races.

    • Mary E. Gordon

      Talk about vicious!!!! I have absolutely no use for Ted Kennedy or Obama, Pelosi, Reid, Biden et al but they are human beings. You only weaken your argument when you attack people personally. Your venom is only going to poison you. I actually pity you.

  • s c

    It has been so amusing, watching b o and his braindead legions trying to understand and endure emotion-charged town hall meetings.
    America is telling him is that his health care ‘reform’ is worse than crap. Even AARP has voiced a loud ‘NO’ to b o’s nation-wrecking scheme. Ooorah!
    Average citizens know more about b o’s crap plan than he does. B O’s congressional flunkies haven’t been able to dominate town hall meetings because people see them for the traitors they are. His handlers didn’t allow for the American people seeing through his Trojan Horse ‘gift.’
    So much for the best and the brightest. What he and his kind will never understand is people’s reaction to something that looks like crap, smells like crap, and was created by subhumans who plan to cram this crap down our throats. Gotcha, you miserable weasels!
    Good things, b o, work both ways. This crap works only one way. America, tell him and show him what he can do with his plans. America, this battle has just begun. Enter turnabout. Enter justice. Exit incompetence. Exit a lame duck prez. Exit nation-killers and all domestic enemies. Thank God, the American people can READ!

    • jb

      It’s not a Trojan Horse…everybody’s calling it that
      …it’s a Trojan condom.

      (appologies to Trojan)

    • Bob

      I was just at the AARP web site. It didn’t say anything about opposing this health care reform. In fact just the opposite.

      • Stan Lee

        Bob: About AARP, I’m disappointed in that organization. It’s no wonder that 60,000 reported, thus far, have canceled their memberships with AARP.

        • Smilee

          That’s just a drop in the bucket when you look at the total members which is in the millions so not the big deal you want to make it

    • http://donthaveone Mark

      I would have to agree, that B.O. dont know. And neither do the puppet masters that are pulling his strings, and writing the things he reads off his telestrator. He has no mind of his own. He is the figurehead, and soon, rest assured, they will throw him under the bus to save face for all the rediculous things they have had him say and do. He has made it clear since the election, that he has no plan or ideas of his own, he is just blindly following his party to his eventual demise, and its coming quicker than they realize. I just wonder if he is intelligent enough to see it coming, or if he needs to be told that also.

  • DaveH
  • DaveH

    Has anyone noticed how the “mobs of organized people” at the town hall meetings are so angry and loud, yet at a recent townhall meeting with Obama speaking, there was no yelling, no booing, just applause at whatever he was saying? Am I just imagining things or are the attendees of his speeches carefully screened to exclude the opposition?

    • Lindy

      What? You mean like the blatantly stacked George Bush “by-invitation-only” townhall meetings? Maybe BO still commands a little respect from his opponents. Maybe the morons shreiking the Karl Rove misinformation (Death Panels?!) tactics are too intimidated to try that in front of BO.

      • Patricia Henson

        Lindsy reply,You apparently haven’t read the bill. The death panels are clearly there, Different wording of course. This is the most frightening bill I’ve ever seen for a number of reasons. I also don’t want to have to pay for someone elses sex-change operation or abortion which will be covered under this bill. I also don’t want to pay for healthcare for illegal aliens who haven’t paid a penny into the system. They have already proven that they don’t mind breaking our laws by being here to start with. They are one of the biggest reasons our country is in trouble economically to begin with. Rationed care will happen and that means only the younger, healthier people will be treated. If you are physically, or mentally disabled, or old the government no longer sees you as viable and will not spend the money on your care. These things are all in the bill. Eziekiel Emmanuel has stated that doctors are taking the hippocratic oath too seriously and that healthcare should only go to people who can make a contribution to society. He is the Presidents healthcare advisor for those who don’t know. I pray to God that this bill never sees the light of day.

        • Foolpatrol

          Hey Patricia,

          Either you haven’t read the bill, you’re brainwashed by Fox and cronies, you can’t read or you don’t comprehend. I suspect that the it’s the Fox brainwashing that has you so passionate abput your misinformation.

          Were you aware that Sarah ‘give me free, it’s not my fault, what’s in it for me’ Palin was for the ‘evil death panels’ before she was against them?

          For ‘Death Panels’ Before She Was Against Them? Palin Endorsed End Of Life Counseling As Governor!

          In recent weeks, right-wing groups have been pushing the myth that health care reform will somehow kill seniors. One of the most high profile voices pushing this lie has been Sarah Palin, who claimed President Obama will institute bureaucratic “death panels.” Today, again on her Facebook page, she continued the attack. Though some Republicans have rebuffed this absurd, inaccurate notion — like Johnny Isakson (R-GA), who called such talk “nuts” — others, like Newt Gingrich, have piled on to agree with Palin.

          However, on April 16th 2008, then Gov. Sarah Palin endorsed some of the same end of life counseling she now decries as a form of euthanasia. In a proclamation announcing “Healthcare Decisions Day,” Palin urged public facilities to provide better information about advance directives, and made it clear that it is critical for seniors to be informed of such options:

          WHEREAS, one of the principal goals of Healthcare Decisions Day is to encourage hospitals, nursing homes, assisted living facilities, continuing care retirement communities, and hospices to participate in a statewide effort to provide clear and consistent information to the public about advance directives, as well as to encourage medical professionals and lawyers to volunteer their time and efforts to improve public knowledge and increase the number of Alaska�s citizens with advance directives.

          WHEREAS, the Foundation for End of Life Care in Juneau, Alaska, and other organizations throughout the United States have endorsed this event and are committed to educating the public about the importance of discussing healthcare choices and executing advance directives.
          End of Life Care
          http://juneau-end-of-life-care.org/
          http://thinkprogress.org

          Zeke Emanuel on Sarah Palin’s Accusation of ‘Death Panels’: ‘It’s An Absolute Outrage!

          Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel, the health-policy adviser at the White House’s Office of Management and Budget — who has been caricatured by conservatives as a “Dr. Death” seeking to pull the I.V.s out of your grandparents’ arms in the name of cost containment — is not happy.
          Asked by ABC News in an interview about the thoroughly discredited claim by former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin to paint his philosophical writings as evidence — along with a provision providing optional end of life counseling in the House Democrats’ health care reform bill — that President Obama wants to set up “death panels” to deny medical treatments to seniors and the disabled, including her son Trig, Emanuel, brother of White House chief of staff Rahm Emanuel, does not hold back.

          “It’s an absolute outrage that you would take first of all a provision written in the bill,” Emanuel says, a provision allowing for “doctors to talk to patients about end of life care, and turn it into the suggestion that we’re going to have euthanasia boards — that’s a complete misreading of what’s there. It’s just trying to scare people.”

          http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/08/zeke-emanuel-on-sarah-palins-accusation-of-death-panels-its-an-absolute-outrage.html

          Hey, we can always blame researching and telling the truth on the evil liberal media, right?

        • Bob

          What section of the bill talks about death panels?

          • Foolpatrol

            Perhaps it’s in the section on Republican lies and fear mongering!

          • Dale

            PG 430 Lines 11-15 – The Gov’t will decide what level of treatment you will have at end of life.
            Pg 429 Lines 13-25 – The Gov’t will specify which Doctors can write an end of life order.
            PG 427 Lines 15-24 – Gov’t=2 0mandates program for orders for end of life. The Gov’t has a say in how your life ends.
            Pg 429 Lines 1-9 – An “Advance Care Planning Consultation” will be used frequently as patients health deteriorates.
            PG 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3 – Gov’t provides approved list of end of life resources, guiding you in death.

      • s c

        Lindy: I know I’m wasting my time, but here goes. What do you think your fearless leader (b o) just pulled in Montana? If you think that staged circus was a fair representation (as opposed to an ‘invitation only’ sideshow), please tell me what you’re smoking. Is it that you don’t get it, or you don’t want to get it?
        People like you still don’t understand why conservatives have so little use for ultralibs and their conditional standards. B O wouldn’t have gone to Montana unless he was surrounded by ‘friendlies.’ Just once, I’d like to see him have the GUTS to go to a REAL town hall meeting. He can’t stand criticism, and his 20 gallon ego will be his undoing. You sure know how to pick ‘leaders.’ Get a life. Get real. WAKE UP!

        • Lindy

          Hey SC… if you want to chat you’re never wasting your time with me. But just to clarify things before we really get into the issue, Barrack Obama is not MY leader, he’s the POTUS. My point was these
          townhall clusterf@cks are all sideshows… but unlike George Bush’s love-ins at least Obama had to face a couple of unfriendly questions in Montana. Bush had these hand-picked posers lobbing puff-ball questions that any six year-old that read the daily talking points could have answered. Bottom line, these townhall meetings don’t change opinions, it’s preaching to the choir and if you don’t like the song you just aren’t going to listen.

          People like me? You obviously have no idea clue about my poltical beliefs. So I’ll fill you in a bit… I have no use for ultra liberals either, they’re conditional standards are as moronic as those spouted by the ultra conservatives. You see, I’m against all forms of fundamentalism and simple mindedness.

          Just once I’d like to see an informed public, ask unscripted questions, to a politician that wants to shake-up the status quo. At least Obama wants to shake things up… it’s up to the American public to come up with a solution… an informed solution, because the status quo just isn’t working for most Americans anymore. What do you want?

          • Stan Lee

            Well, you sign your name as “Lindy,” but you sound like “Wrong-way Corrigan to me.(Look it up if you don’t know what I mean) What’s with the Karl Rove thing? He’s history. Deal with what Rahm Emanuel, his brother the doctor who wants to end your life, Van Jones, convicted felon and avowed Communist, and the rest of those Czars accountable to no Congress oversight,only to Obama, are getting away with.
            How do you have the guts to come on here with the “Karl Rove” thing?
            Not one of those fellows and ladies who served the Bush Adm’n were like the dangerous people who’re incidentally, Obama’s personal friends. “I can tell who you are by your friends.”

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          Montana, where men are men, and sheep are nervous.

      • http://AOL Ricko

        If Old Ted Kennedy was in Obama’s Health care Plan, He would be dead. They would have pulled the plug a L O N G time ago…..Wake Up

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          Well in that aspect, you make it sound kind of appealing to have it. Hmmm, first good point Ive read towards it.

      • http://donthaveone Mark

        Come on Lindy, are you serious? He doesnt even have the respect of his own party, or they wouldnt be secretly planning on how to dump him allready. And they are. Watch and see.

    • Foolpatrol

      What, you mean like Bush did for eight years? He didn’t entertain dissent, that’s for sure. That Moran was so out of the loop or perhaps he was still doing coke, that he didn’t know or care about the long term impact of his failed policies and failed Administration. The Bush Recession still thrives! Good Riddance to the ignorant F*ck.

      • Scott

        I couldn’t look myself in the mirror if I didn’t point out that the guy who’s calling Bush a “Moran” has misspelled the word, “Moron.” It makes me wonder if, when you refer to Bush as an “ignorant F*ck,” you were trying NOT to swear or if you just don’t know how to spell it.

        • Foolpatrol

          Thanks for the correction. Mine error is a typo (I’ve made several others and must do better at proofreading). Bush is a Moran!

          • Foolpatrol

            Opps, just did it again. My error is a typo and Bush is still a MORAN!

          • Stan Lee

            Hey Footpatrol: Take ten and get off your feet. The blood feeding your brain has been affected by gravity.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            There sure are a lot of really angry and stupid people in the world, and I know where they hide. Go in your bathroom Footpatrol, one of them is hiding above the sink in your bathroom.

      • steven jeffries

        You Got this Thing about Bush Blaming so What You’re saying is it all these bad things happened on his Watch You need to go back further then 8yrs pal and Bush was on coke i think You got the wrong watchman on that one I think You ment Bubba while he was govener of Ark the demonkrauts do no wrong EVER

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          Thats all they got is pointing the finger at Bush, because they bring nothing viable to the table. You know, if were going back in time, back to Bubba in Arkansas. Remember the Mena Arkansas drug thing? How come when it started getting tracked back to the governors office, everyone, and I mean everyone – the cops, the witnesses, the gang members, the lawyers, all the players mysteriously ended up dead, even some with bullet holes in the back of their heads, ruled suicides. Yep, thats their Bubba in action. Ask Vince Foster and Ron Brown. Ooops, shoot, I forgot he took them out too.

        • Foolpatrol

          Ridge: I Was Pressured To Raise Terror Alert To Help Bush Win
          http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/20/tom-ridge-i-was-pressured_n_264127.html
          “Ridge was never invited to sit in on National Security Council meetings; was “blindsided” by the FBI in morning Oval Office meetings because the agency withheld critical information from him; found his urgings to block Michael Brown from being named head of the emergency agency blamed for the Hurricane Katrina disaster ignored; and was pushed to raise the security alert on the eve of President Bush’s re-election, something he saw as politically motivated and worth resigning over.”

          “What Tom Ridge disclosed confirms our worst suspicions,” said Sen. Lautenberg (D-N.J.), who criticized the color-coded system back in 2003. “Just like they did in Iraq, the Bush Administration manipulated intelligence to cause fear in the public to further its political goals.”
          The Bush administration was forced to admit in the days after the 2004 alert that it was based on intelligence three or four years old. Officials then claimed there was a previously unmentioned “separate stream of intelligence” that justified the warning — but offered little tangible information to support their new story..

      • http://AOL Ricko

        The Federal Government Runs :(

        The Post Office—Which is 8 billion in the ‘Red” so they just keep increasing postage and passing it on to the tax payers. Private firms would make a profit (like Obama said about UPS & Fed X)

        Social Security—Which the Federal Government raids every year and has it going broke and the hard working tax payers who paid into this all of their lives will not receive it thanx to the greedy Politicians (who keep their pay and benefits for life) SHAMEFUL….

        Medical Benefits—-to the Illegal Immigrants who pay no taxes and are draining the resources that the hard working tax payers pay for. Why work..,,,when you get it for free….

        Tax payers are fed up with the self serving politicians and their promises.
        Term Limits should be put on all Political Offices to stop the Greed…Waste…Self serving…Power hungry politicians who would sell their souls for a vote….

        And you want to run Health Care……Give us a break & TERM LIMITS on all of Congress who got us in this mess .

        • Stan Lee

          I got the word that USPS contracts to the private carriers for overnight delivery stuff. Again, your government in action! I suppose we need to subsidize the fees Fedex and UPS charge USPS. There’s your regular price increases! Whenever I go to the PO, there’s always a long line,6 clerk stations, but two weary clerks working. Now they’re pulling mailboxes in my area in the USPS latest economy drive. No more every few blocks in the cities.

      • http://donthaveone Mark

        First off, if your going to like, you know, lambast someone about not maybe being the sharpest pencil in the box, you should probably learn how to spell. For two, George W. Bush will go down in history as the second greatest president in history behind Ronald Reagan, for freeing millions of people, and bring peace to Iraq. Its you dopes on the left that are more interested in making this fail, so you can point fingers at Bush, that is your interest in making the United States of America a great country. You sacrifice our country and all it stands for, to attack the other political party. To me, that is criminal, and you sir, are a big part of the problem, and all those who think like you.

        • Smilee

          Bush will be at the bottom of the heap and Reagan way down the list as well when the last chapters get written forty or fifty years from now and by then it will be clear just now much damage they did to this country.

    • Smilee

      No, Obama is so skilled at handling hecklers and make them appear on camera as the fools they are. They are afraid to heckle him and their handlers will not allow this because of that and it is they that make all the decisions and the ditto heads who rant and rave follow in lock step, and rant and rave on cue but only if they are give the signal to, otherwise they shut up. Most Americans are catching on to these shenanigans.

      • DaveH

        Yes, he’s definitely skilled. When the healthcare bill first was introduced, Obama said it would save the US money. Now, in that aforementioned meeting in Montana, he admitted that it is going to cost a lot of money. And this is the guy we’re supposed to trust to take care of us? Give me a break.
        We have a doctor shortage (which I maintain is a result of government meddling). If that figure of 47 million uninsured is correct (I doubt it), that is 15% of the US population. So 15% more patients will be added to the already over-used doctors’ workload. That’s going to solve the health care problems?
        I won’t argue with you if you say insurers are a problem. But it’s not because they are taking advantage, it’s just the nature of paying a middleman to come between you and your doctor. Who pays that middleman? You as a policy holder or your company pay for it of course. For routine medical treatment (as opposed to major medical) you are just paying extra for that middleman on a regular basis. And on top of that, they meddle with your medical treatment. If government gets involved you can count on an increase in both the cost and the meddling.
        Again, I can’t say often enough, that the only real winners in bigger government will be the government employees (that includes lawyers and courts). The politicians are using you as a pawn in their power games. By the way, you won’t catch me defending Bush as he too grew the government larger, but Obama is trying to make Bush’s government growth look absolutely wimpy.

        • http://aol Don

          If the lawyers and courts are the big winners, then third place is not too bad with the insurance companies making 440 billion clear profit. One problem they make is canceling people who have paid.

          • DaveH

            Don,
            I solved that problem 30 years ago. I don’t buy their product.
            Only catastrophic insurance (major medical) makes any sense at all. And that is only because most people (if they suffer misfortune) can’t come up with that kind of money. I can’t either, but I will take the hit if nature calls. And don’t rank me with the excuse that society will have to take care of me, as I didn’t ask for that, and I can’t help it if other crybabies through government have created that condition to give me gift that I didn’t ask for.
            In the routine health care cases it would be much cheaper in the long run to cut out the middleman (insurance companies) which will be the government if the health care bill gets passed.

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          Well, at least he learned how to silence the hecklers when he was shooting dice in the alley back in Chicago.

      • Scott

        I love how the liberals all try and make out like Obama is the silver-tongued orator. Every time that man opens his mouth without a teleprompter to tell him what he thinks, a dozen people spend the next 7 days going on television to say, “What he meant to say was…” The guy hasn’t a clue.

        • http://aol Don

          I guess you didn’t hear him Saturday. No teleprompter when doing Q&A. Why do people keep criticizing Obama about teleprompter? Is it because Bush always used one, and the Dems criticized him? Now is it your turn to give it back? Or people just like to repeat Hannity?

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            Because without someone to tell him what to do or what to say, he brings nothing viable to the table. Bottom line. He has proved it over and over. 4 and out. Thats it, his goose is cooked in less than a year, because he has gotten caught in lies allready, and is still shooting by the back of his pants. No plan, no action, nothing. 4 and out.

        • http://AOL Ricko

          The Kenyan who won’t provide his real Birth certificate is not my President until he can prove he is qualified to be in office. He has never released a certified Birth certificate.

          • Foolpatrol

            Put the Meth pipe down! Our president will release his long form birth certificate when Sarah ‘give me free’ Palin releases a high school diploma certifying that she meets minimum 12th grade equivalency standards or passes a remedial English test. You betcha!

      • Stan Lee

        Smilee: Lest you forget, one high school boy stood up and questioned Obama in CO. The kid put BHO in short pants, the answer wasn’t available for rehearsal or on teleprompter. All Obama could do was his “Eh,”"Uh,” and “Uhm.” But his voice sounds good as he stammers! Is that what you clowns voted for? How shallow!

      • http://donthaveone Mark

        Only if the guys writing the stuff on his telestrator are quick enough. If he had all the intelligence so many on the left perpetrate he has, he would have left the democratic party a long time ago, and he would be smart enough to realize that they will dump him, and they will dump him, right under the bus, to save their face, as it is all blowing up right in their faces. Im not going to sit here and point the finger at him when things his admin is doing fails and blows up, because one guy doesnt do it all. Its a party thing, and he is the figure head. You all on the left still sit there pointing at Bush and saying “look what he did”, but it takes the village, not one guy, and Im glad Im smart enough to know that. I dont blame Barack, I blame his party. I sat back quietly, and gave him a chance, but all that his party has acted on so far are all wrong, and are making messes all over. You cannot tell me it was smart to give GM and Chrysler billions, no way. You cannot tell me national health care is good for us. Sure, Id like to have it all free, but its not going to be that way. After it happens, if it happens, when we all see how it is, brother its going to be too late to do anything about it, and I really dont want to get stuck in that boat. When he sent more troops to Afghanistan, hey, I was all for that move, 100 percent with him. But when Bush did it, boy oh boy, it was that war monger Bush and the illegal war for oil. Sorry, I got a problem with that mentality of reporting by our press. But when Barack and his boys make a move like this, and I agree with it, buddy Ill support him 100 percent on it, unlike the left and the leftist press who would never give Bush or the repubs kudo’s for anything they did. Never. Its not right.

    • http://aol Don

      You are correct. He copied this behavior from Bush.

    • Stan Lee

      Dave H: I’m sure we’ve all noticed what you’ve mentioned. Like in NH,there were quite a number of Obama supporters from MA. ACORN maybe?
      And, when a little girl stands up to read a statement complaining of people outside with signs, that looked like a set-up to me. And,it was. The woman sitting next to the child was her mother, an Obama campaign worker from MA. Now,Portsmouth, NH, is not very far from the MA border,but I lived in NH and NH people are usually politically savvy. Yet, we didn’t see many asking really pertinent questions. I guess they were all outside holding signs!

    • http://donthaveone Mark

      Not only that, they have armed guys that make sure they stay away from their “messiah”. To which I say, no thanks, I allready have a Messiah.

  • s c

    DaveH, any politician who attends a ‘quiet’ health care reform town hall meeting that is as quiet as a library is either ‘preaching to the choir,’ or the audience has been warned not to ‘voice’ their First Amendment comments. So much for the Constitution (isn’t a prez supposed to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution?).
    This prez has a monumental ego. It will drive him to stifle criticism at every opportunity. When RMN was prez, ultralibs pissed and moaned daily about his ‘imperial presidency.’ B O’s presidency makes Nixon’s seem like a cub scout cookie drive. Are we cursed with a wannabe Manchurian Candidate who believes America has to be destroyed so it can be re-built? He has the ego and the gall to rage at America’s justifiable anger. Psychiatrists and psychologists will write volumes about b o and his psycho czars and congressional puppets. It might be one of the few ways someone can have an income in the economy that will be but one of b o’s legacies.

    • Lindy

      To bad the first amendment doesn’t ensure intelligent and informed speech. The Karl Rove tactic of debate by misinformation is unfair. Screeching about death panels and socialized medicine doesn’t change the fact the health care needs to be reformed. Too many people don’t have health insurance. Too many people who have health insurance are declined by their insurers after they get sick. Health care is more expenseive than it should be… health care as it exists today is a scam. The president doesn’t stifle critism, it just that after the past eight years, you aren’t used to a President that can debate anyone, openly, intelligently, rationally and respectfully. George Bush was all about making sure that he and his rich country club friends profited at all times at the expense of the American public. The current president actually gives a sh!t about the people that elected him

      • Robin from Indiana

        Lindy says: the current president actually gives a sh!t about the people that elected him

        ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!!
        Barry is as narcissistic as they come. Look up narcissistic and you will find his picture right there in the dictionary! This man cares about no one but himself. He wants to go down in history as the president that made the most drastic changes. He probably has even convinced himself that these changes are good for the people… HA! He isn’t even fighting for health care reform now. He has changed it to health care insurance reform. It’s business, not what is better for America! Do you think he and Michelle and their kids will opt for this insurance change? NO! and neither will any other of the elected officials. Why do you think they will not want to be on this plan? It’s good enough for the peons, not the elected elite. This administration was elected on lies. I have yet to see where my family has gotten anything he promised. I would be overjoyed to see him propose one bill that wasn’t pork-laden, which he was so against while campaigning. That would be a change I could agree with. I honestly think this whole mess is causing an underground tremor that is waking a lot of people from an apathetic state. We needed to be shook up and really looking at the candidates and all elected officials to sort out the good from the bad. I do think a reckoning is on the horizon!

      • Scott

        No Lindy, President Bush was all about keeping you alive so that after he was out of office, you’d still be alive to bitch about it.

        • Foolpatrol

          “President Bush was all about keeping you alive … .”

          Ask the 18,000 uninsured Americans who died each and every long year of Bush’s eight failed years from treatable conditions if the Moran was about keeping them alive?

          • maggiemoo

            You are so full of it. I’m not sure where you get your numbers, but people don’t die from being uninsured. I have been uninsured for the past 25+ years and have excellent healthcare. I have had 2 knee surgeries and a c-section as well as a few minor treatments. I just pay for these myself instead of paying an insurance company. I don’t run to the doctor for every little pain or runny nose or scrape. I rely on living a healthy lifestyle instead of drugs and I don’t want someone else extorting money out of me for services I don’t want. The insured tend to visit the docs over every minor thing because they are already paying through the nose for insurance and want to get some return for it– thereby causing costs to rise even more.

          • Smilee

            Foolpatrol

            Doesn’t that calculate to at least 6 times the number in the 9/11 Towers attack. SHAMEFUL!

          • Scott

            By the way, it’s MORON, not moran. You HAVE to love the irony there.

        • Smilee

          How do you know for sure Bin Laden did not make any plans to attack us and because of that Bush would have had to do nothing and that is the most likely probability, but you conservatives have to puff this guy up because he was such a do nothing president and his lack of doing nothing was what made so many problems for the country.

          • Scott

            A valid point, but WHAT IF Bush DID keep us all alive and so many liberals have spent so many hours, days, weeks, months, and years slamming him, when all he did was to keep us alive? You can’t be certain that the leaders of your party aren’t feeding you a line of baloney, either. Let’s face it, it’s always been in the best interest of either party to NEVER admit that the other guy or girl was RIGHT. It’s very sad and it makes you wonder why any intelligent person would want to be president. So if the intelligent ones don’t run, who are we left with? Obama?

          • Smilee

            Scott says:
            August 17, 2009 at 5:06 pm

            If Bush really had saved us , I’m sure he could not resisted bragging about it and would have proved to us if was true, in the absence of this I think it is a fairly safe bet he did nothing.

          • LARRY

            MR. BARNEY FRANKS WITH THE HOUSING AND CRIS DOBBS WITH THE BANKING IS WHAT CAUSED OUR PROBLEMS .. REMEMBER THE LAST 2 YEARS OF THE BUSH ADM. WE HAD A DEM. CONGRESS ..

        • http://aol Don

          Tell that to the thousands that died in 9/11. He sure made them safe.

          • Looperrun

            And tell those thousands that died how the Clintoon administration failed to go after the terrorists after the first attack. How he had him and let him go, Oh yeah and tell the families of those men who were killed in the downed blackhawks how there was an AC130 gunship 10 minutes away that could easily have given all the support necessary to get those men out. Yeah let’s put blame where it belongs. The dumocrats are now and will continue to be spineless weenies owned by Soros and now ACORN

      • DaveH

        Oh sure Lindy, and you have the corner on intelligence and informed speech? Get real liberal, your name calling and ridicule won’t work with the truly intelligent people. The Obama administration is after nothing less than the socialistic takeover of our government. And Socialism has failed throughout the world. It is all about a minority of the population (the leaders) profiting at the expense of the citizens. They keep the citizens blinded by their promises of greatness and usually get away with it until their economy collapses completely.

        The government has been heavily involved in health care (as in almost everything else) at least since I’ve been an adult (I’m 60 now). They have obviously failed miserably by your own admission, and you want more? When do you liberals throw in the towel? Stubborn is not the same as intelligent.

        And if health care is your right, then I guess food and shelter must be also, as the latter two can result in death a lot quicker and more surely than the lack of health care. So, you think other people should provide you with all your needs (Communism)?

        • Robert P

          Liberals seem to think that the Utopia that they are searching for can exist. This Utopia is one where everyone is taken care of and no one is ever hungry, sick, without work, or unhappy. This Utopia exists when a society can exist where we’re all entitled to the same things in life and that there are no divisions of race, religion, or prosperity. Liberals believe this Utopia can exist. If I could truly believe that government around the world (not just in the USA) is honest and incorruptible, now and forever, I might even buy into this Utopian philosophy. But… I guess I’m just not that naive.

          Liberals will not be happy until we are all paying 99% of our income to the government to give us all equal measures of food, energy, health care, and prosperity (if you could call it that by then) at the expense of the people that worked hardest for what they achieved in life. Unfortunately, the problem with this “Utopia” is that eventually you run out of other people’s money and as a result the people become enslaved to their government. As this “Utopian” world continues, at some point (if you’re lucky) you will still have the wealth of Bill Gates and Warren Buffet to take care of everyone, because everyone else has no incentive to do anything for themselves. But I doubt these “Rich” people would be so stupid as to hang around that long…

          • Smilee

            Robert P

            You prove only one thing, you have no idea what Liberals are about and in your ignorance of that fact you rave on about this fiction. Anyone who thinks there is not sickness etc. in any culture and under any type of government is delusional and liberal know better than that. Dream on my friend!

          • Robert P

            The proof is in the pudding. The evidence is written on the Liberal/Socialist walls of history throughout time as to what they believe in of what society “needs” to succeed. How many countries have succeeded in this philosohy? Can you tell me? (Hint: the number is less than 1) Why should everyone be “entitled” to have things that others work hard to attain? I believe in charity and helping your fellow man as much as the next person, but not by a government that extracts it from me by law, and at the risk of loosing my freedom.

            If you can explain the meaning of Liberalism, then attempt to enlighten me. It amazes me how people can’t clearly see how pliticians have for years been disguising Socialism as Liberalism just to get people on board with programs they want, and which are meant to eventually enslave and bring power unto themselves and those closest to them. This process has been ongoing and continues, but many don’t see what is happening before their eyes because they are blinded by this devotion to a Leader which promises them the Utopia they dream about, but never will deliver.

            I am not a Republican by the way.

          • DaveH

            Smilee,
            The political definition of a liberal is anyone who wants to grow government, as that is the opposite intention of our forefathers and of the constitution they wrote that all politicians swear to uphold.
            All you have to do is look at the congressional record, and you will see that the Democrats (very liberal) rarely miss a chance to vote for a tax or spend bill. That is why Democrats are known as the “Tax and Spend” party. And they are certainly living up to their nickname this year.
            The Federal Government is limited by the Constitution, 10th Amendment which says “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.” It says nowhere in the Constitution that the Federal Government has the power to force the nation to have national healthcare. If our own government can’t obey the law, how can they expect the citizens to be law-abiding?

        • Smilee

          DaveH

          Well, Lindy has demonstrated frequently here she has an over abundance of intelligence and REAL intelligent people get that, those who try to convince us here that they have real intelligence actually convince us they are not intelligent enough to know what intelligence really is.

          • DaveH

            Oh yeah, that was an intelligent statement.

          • Smilee

            DaveH

            You prove my point, Dave.

        • eyeswideopen

          No, let’s cancel Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, College grants,etc,,etc..etc. they are all socialist programs. Each of you rt wing conservatives can tell your parents, grandparents or kids, sorry no more money, you have to fend for yourselves!!!! I am positive that each one of you that are spewing such hate, has someone in their familly or is someone who gets some kind of government assistance. We are supposed to be the “Greatest Country in the World”, which means we have compassion for others misfortunes…you know like “Christians are supposed to have for others” bull crap, us Republicans are nothing but hypocrites, Bush passed Medicare Advantage at a cost of 400 BILLION, with no funding, which is now part of our debt, and you people have the nerve to critize the Dem’s?? Get real and get honest, a debt of 1.3 trillion passed to this admin, from us fiscal conservatives was due to us spending like drunken sailors.

          • DaveH

            eyes,
            More like eyeswideshut. You’re right, we will be able to tell our children, and grandchildren “Sorry no more money, you have to fend for yourselves” because you liberals are spending it all. I’m sure they will thank you for the debt you are leaving them!
            Don’t give me that “compassion” crap. If you had compassion, you would be spending your own money, not someone else’s.

          • eyeswideopen

            Dave, why is it so hard for you to admit that the Rep’s did not uphold our ideals? We are supposed to be conservative, in our actions, thoughts and deeds. We spent like crazy with no funding, didn’t balance the budget, didn’t even include the cost of the non-justified war in the deficit, failed to uphold our moral beliefs of not torturing enemy combatants, knowningly let wall street hijack the financial system and didn’t and still don’t even bother to remove from office, those who are guilty of moral turpitude.

          • DaveH

            Eyes,
            First of all, I’m not Republican. Both parties have indeed been growing government. I’m not fond of that fact. But the Democrats have been growing it much faster. I’m not so if the slow growth, which goes unnoticed by the citizens, is less dangerous than the fast growth which may wake people up to reality. If you want to get a real eye-opener then read this online book. I think it’s a fascinating book. Some parts are very wordy, but you can open up a dictionary on your 2nd Explorer tab:
            http://mises.org/rothbard/foranewlb.pdf

      • Foolpatrol

        Lindy,

        Thank you. I was beginning to wonder if anyone on this site was intelligent, nonpartisan or unbiased enough to understand the the issue.

        • DaveH

          Nonpartisan? Unbiased? That is a laugh riot coming from you, fool.

      • maggiemoo

        Lindy says:Health care is more expenseive than it should be… health care as it exists today is a scam.

        Health care in America isn’t really the problem. Health insurance IS the problem. The government control of it IS the problem. And unfortunately B.O.’s plan is NOT about healthcare, only about the government control of health insurance (how much you MUST pay for insurance that will cover what medical services some bureaucrat decides you are worthy to get). Poor Lindy is so engrossed in being a good Democrat, she can’t possibly see over her rose-colored glasses when policy is written by a Dem. She will happily be a sheeple led to her own slaughter.

        • Lindy

          Maggie… couple of things…

          “Health care isn’t the problem health insurance IS the problem.” Okay, maybe you’re right, maybe I should have been more specific. Maybe what should be discussed is the “regulation” of the health iinsurance industry?

          As for your other “statements”:
          - I’m not really poor.
          - I’m not a registered Democrat.
          - I do wear glasses, but those glasses are untinted.
          - I’m not a she, or a her or a woman.

      • Smilee

        A woman with a brain here, how nice!!!!!

      • Smilee

        Lindy says:
        August 17, 2009 at 5:02 am

        My comment was directed to Lindy, so do not want his misunderstood

        A woman with a brain here, how nice!!!!!

        LINDY’S comments

        To bad the first amendment doesn’t ensure intelligent and informed speech. The Karl Rove tactic of debate by misinformation is unfair. Screeching about death panels and socialized medicine doesn’t change the fact the health care needs to be reformed. Too many people don’t have health insurance. Too many people who have health insurance are declined by their insurers after they get sick. Health care is more expenseive than it should be… health care as it exists today is a scam. The president doesn’t stifle critism, it just that after the past eight years, you aren’t used to a President that can debate anyone, openly, intelligently, rationally and respectfully. George Bush was all about making sure that he and his rich country club friends profited at all times at the expense of the American public. The current president actually gives a sh!t about the people that elected him
        Reply

      • Dickie

        Lindy, Tirds who swim together stick together,& you got find ones,smilee,& the worlds biggest fool,Why don’t you read up on the clintons,You discusting thing,He was the one that force the banks to give money to people with no credit or bad credit,No job’s,he & the damn demon-craps,Who put us in the mess we are in now,And you evil traitors, Lied,forge names,& any other corrupt way to put this mulsum terroist,From kenya,a postion,He is in noway fit for,He was a damn lawyer who taught poor ignorant people,How to get something for nothing,They did not deserve,And now has turn his back on them,Satin is a real good talker,And has many faces,Hussein obama,pelosi,reid,kennedy,muthar,boxer,franks,And the rest of the trash parasites,{YOU WAIT,YOU WILL SEE} AS the most corrupt thug losers,In AMERICAN HISTORY! YOU BLIND MICE.

        • Lindy

          Dickie… WOW. You talk about ignorant people? Before you start calling people “turds” and “disgusting” you should actually know how to spell the words. You may also want to look into the proper use of capital letters and punctuation.

          Due to your “grasp of the written word” I found it hard to follow. Who was “…a damn lawyer who taught poor ignorant people…”? Was it Clinton? Are you still upset that missed all the classes?

          • JanO

            Lindy

            You seem like a nice person & I am sure your concern for the down trodden is genuine. But don’t you see where all these policies that Obama has instigated is going to bankrupt our country? That means you & I. All the paper money that is being printed will make our money worthless. The cost of living will at the same time increase dramatically. Jobs, what jobs? His policies are going to cripple small business & small business accounts for 70% of all jobs. It is true, under a socialistic government, people lose incentives to strive to do better or even a halfway good job. In Russia there were long lines for bread, do you suppose it was because they could not raise their own food? Crops were not harvested as their was no reward in doing so. Yes, we must have a way to help the unfortunate, but we cannot help them if we cannot help ourselves. This country is the greatest country ever in history & it got that way by the American people & the constitution that was formed to grant us life, liberty & the pursuit of happiness. The problem is government has gotten too big & too expensive. There is now taxes on taxes every time we purchase something. Some things are taxed 3 times before it reaches the consumer & then we pay sales tax on those taxes. Under socialism, all are poor & no incentive to get an education or better oneself. Unless you want to be a part of the government. Not all Democrats are ultra liberal and not all republicans are ultra conservative. As for me I am an Independent as I cannot agree totally with either party.

      • eyeswideopen

        Lindy, you are so right. Cheney entered office with net worth of 24 million, upon exiting it was 98.7 million. No one told me that the VP made an annual salary that could increase by that much… oh, just found out that Congressman can use insider information about stock market deals… it isn’t illegal. Think that’s why they want to stay in power????

      • http://donthaveone Mark

        Karl Rove has more intelligence and tact in his pinky than you do in your whole body, so seriously, shut up.

  • NObama tyring to change the Senate’s rules… READ THIS

    FROM THE ‘LEAGUE OF AMERICAN VOTERS’:

    Obama Caught in AARP Lie, More to Come

    Dear Supporter: In our last message, we warned that Obama was on the run, desperate to get his radical health plan rammed through Congress.
    But Obama’s falling poll numbers, and the fact that outlets such as Fox News and Newsmax are fully informing Americans about the dangers of the plan, have hurt him and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s efforts for their healthcare fiasco.

    They are desperate. Obama out-and-out lied this week when he claimed that the AARP, the nation’s largest seniors organization, backed his healthcare plan.
    The organization does not support it.
    Nancy Pelosi has even compared citizens protesting against the health plan with Nazi freedomfighters, which is shouldn’t be so bad from this homokamu liar creep.
    These futile attempts of Obama and Pelosi to twist reality prove that our efforts are working!

    This weekend, we will begin our national TV ad campaign. We are rolling out our powerful new TV ad — devised by Dick Morris, our chief strategist.
    Dick’s ad exposes how Obama’s plan will lead to healthcare rationing if he succeeds in adding 50 million people to the government system.
    Remember, you can’t let your guard down. Obama and the Democrats know they no longer have the 60 votes to pass the radical health plan in the Senate.
    We are told they are working behind the scenes to change long-standing Senate rules so that they can pass their health plan with just 50 votes!
    This is again a desperate measure and an attempt to subvert our democratic and constitutional system.
    I can assure you the League of American Voters is working day and night to stop Obama’s plan.

    We are also preparing for contingencies.
    When Congress returns after Labor Day, we must line up all our forces for the final battle.
    I realize many people are on vacation or feel confident we can defeat Obama’s plan.
    Please don’t fall victim to overconfidence.
    It is critically important that you join with the League of American Voters today and help us defeat Obama.”

    DEFEAT THE MADMAN OF NAACP, ADL, JDL, DemocRATic Party, Communist Party USA, AARP and other marxist hate-groups!
    SAY NO to NObama NOW!

  • DaveH

    Obama’s health care plan proponents have been outspending the opponents of the health care plan by 3 to 1. Is all that money coming from the people who can’t afford insurance? Of course not. Wake up liberals, its about a lot more than health care. Its about the takeover of our country by those who want to rule us absolutely!

    The Democratic committee has even been attacking senators from its own party — Kent Conrad of North Dakota, Evan Bayh of Indiana, Bill Nelson of Florida, Mary L. Landrieu of Louisiana, Blanche Lincoln of Arkansas, and Ben Nelson of Nebraska — who have been skeptical about an overhaul or the public option.

    These people are after nothing less than the takeover of our freedom.

    • Robert P

      Dave. It sounds like you don’t trust this government. After all, who needs freedom if you have free health care, free food, free shelter, free energy, and so on, and so on. Would it be so bad where everything in life is free (except for freedom of course)?

      • http://donthaveone Mark

        And any government big enough to give you everything, is big enough to take it away. Thomas Jefferson.

    • Smilee

      DaveH

      So, we did that in the presidential and campaign to and won, we will in the end probably do the same with this issue. He has received the largest amount of monies of anyone from the individual, people who vote with their money mean they know what they want.

      • http://donthaveone Mark

        I agree with part of your point, that if you believe in something, then put your money where your mouth is, absolutely. But I think it is a sad day, today, the way politics have boiled down to who has the most money, can do the most commercials, and advertise themselves to a victory. Thats what happened, and whether we will be better off or worse off will be told years down the road, but advertisement won the election. There are many good men and women out there, who would and could far better represent us, but they will never get a chance because its all about being a lawyer and having money out the butt, and connections to people with money, and I myself find it sad that we are ruled by money. God is my God, not money, and every stinking election I watch this run for money, who can get the most, who can spend the most, and its pretty sickening, regardless of who wins or loses, that it has come down to this. Pretty depressing.

      • DaveH

        Smilee,
        Can you tell me where all that money came from? Isn’t the Republican party the party of the rich? And doesn’t the Democratic party claim to be the party of the little people? So where did those little people who don’t even have the money to buy healthcare get all that money to donate to Obama?

  • Brian Rawls

    They are going to ram this health care bill down our throats no matter what the people want. This is going to start a tidal wave of liberty lost.

  • Brian Rawls

    The government is going to send its SS troops after all that resist. You cant believe that they are not willing to go all the way with this. It looks like Germany in 1932 in the USA right now. Fema camps popping up all over. Army has new mos for working the fema detainment camps. Prepare yourselves they are going to get you.

    • http://Hotmail Mark

      SS-Secret Service-Nazi SS

      Not a co-incidence!

    • http://donthaveone Mark

      This is a different Mark. Let them send out their agents. Ive got God and guns, so either way they dont stand a chance. What fear of them do I have? None what so ever. Bring it on, lets dance.

  • Foolpatrol

    The President should confront the critics of healthcare reform. Only the misinformed, stupid and those with a political agenda, e.g., Sarah ‘give me free, it’s not my fault, what’s in it for me’ Palin, believe that the current system of healthcare delivery is working.

    Here are a few facts …

    An unisured woman with Breast Cancer is 60% more likely to die than an insured woman with the same condition. -American Cancer Society-

    18,000 Americans die every year from treatable conditions due to lack of health insurance.

    12 million Americans are discriminated against by insurance companies because of preexisting conditions.

    Uninsured Americans wait longer to seek medical intervention, present sicker, have poorer prognosis and cost more to treat than insured Americans.

    47 million uninsured Americans do not have access to affordale preventative care and life saving diagnostic procedures.

    • maggiemoo

      That is PROPAGANDA, plain and simple. As an uninsured, I DO NOT cost anyone more to treat than if I were insured. I would argue that in most cases the opposite would be true. I guess that spouting these numbers makes it seem easier to support the government takeover of the healthcare system???? (Even though it has never worked wherever it’s been tried).

      • Foolpatrol

        Yep, American Cancer Society propaganda!

        • Paul Trood

          Bang on the money.

    • DaveH

      Newsflash Smilee,
      The government has been getting increasingly involved in the healthcare business at least since I was a young adult (I’m 60 now). Things were fine 40 years ago. My parents were of modest means, and I never heard them complain once about the high cost of healthcare. If those statements you made are indeed true, they only prove that government involvement is making things worse, not better. A large portion of the 47 million you claim is made up of people, like myself, who recognize that the insurer, except in catastrophic cases, is just an unnecessary middle man who interferes in our health care decisions, thus we don’t buy the insurance. Another large portion is composed of uninsured illegal aliens. And you want a middle-man (the government) who has the power of force to interfere in our health-care decisions?
      Liberals like you are just fattening the pockets of the controlling few who enjoy your blind loyalty.
      Patrol yourself!

      • DaveH

        Sorry Smilee,
        Although my statements are pertinent to you also, I meant to address the previous comment to Foolpatrol.

      • eyeswideopen

        Dave, sorry for your anger….Our parents didnt have private insurance companies making 200% profit every year. I agree with you, we shouldn’t have Medicare for anyone including you. But when we do that we can’t continue to claim that this party is Christian based or that as a country we take care of our own because we don’t. Don’t you get it? You can’t walk on both sides.
        Yes, I’m sure the children will look at the facts and see that us Reps were out of control for 8 years, and that we didn’t have the balls to admit we made mistakes and try to fix energy, education, immigration,banking, or health care…I am already apologizing to my kids for the politicians I put in office. We need term limits for the Senate, those men don’t have the best interest of this country, they just want power, and they have lost touch with the middle class.
        Certainly you aren’t saying that we did a good job while holding exclusive power for actually 12yrs are you?? If so, you need to use this internet to look at the facts.

      • Smilee

        DaveH

        Interesting, that now you tell us government was getting involved starting 40 years ago, and today you are telling us you want to keep government out of health care, I think this shows how mixed up you are.

        Yes government got involved in Medicare and Medicaid, one is for elderly and disabled and the other for those who can not afford insurance. The rest of the health care system has been on its own and screwed up the majority of our health care delivery, rationing, denials, waiting has been the result. You are also in denial many of the 47 million do not have the resources to afford any kind of insurance, some do, most do not and a large number of them are employed at below a living wage and their employer may not offer it and if they do he does not pay them enough for them to afford to buy it. I am 8 years older than you and well remember when you did not need insurance because the health care itself was affordable and when this went up, Insurance was more necessary but was still affordable and you still could make all the choices. Today with so many HMO’s, PPO’s and managed care plans either self inured corporations or insurance companies, with that people no longer have the choices they used to as they are made by people other than you or your doctor at a cost you cannot afford.

        Newsflash Smilee,
        The government has been getting increasingly involved in the healthcare business at least since I was a young adult (I’m 60 now). Things were fine 40 years ago. My parents were of modest means, and I never heard them complain once about the high cost of healthcare. If those statements you made are indeed true, they only prove that government involvement is making things worse, not better. A large portion of the 47 million you claim is made up of people, like myself, who recognize that the insurer, except in catastrophic cases, is just an unnecessary middle man who interferes in our health care decisions, thus we don’t buy the insurance. Another large portion is composed of uninsured illegal aliens. And you want a middle-man (the government) who has the power of force to interfere in our health-care decisions?
        Liberals like you are just fattening the pockets of the controlling few who enjoy your blind loyalty.
        Patrol yourself!

        • Smilee

          DaveH

          Part two

          Dave You SAy: “And you want a middle-man (the government) who has the power of force to interfere in our health-care decisions?”

          What you fail to understand is you already have a middle man, your insurance companies, HMO, PPO self insured plans, who are denying coverages, rationing coverages, waiting lines in some cases and guess what this does not exist in Medicare and will not exist in the any of these reforms, in fact proposals for regulation to prohibit this in our existing third payers will stop it there too. That is what this reform is about and not what you are ranting and raving about with your misinformation and distortions.

    • Dickie

      That is because the politician’s take bribes from hosp-drug manufactors,To let them charge what they want,All they would have to do is have something they know nothing about is morals,And a little pride,But their money is more important,& greed for power,You people did not see how pelosi,reid talked to their subjects. Oh I forgot they were supose to bow & just take it up the ____,And smile,The communist way.

    • http://donthaveone Mark

      Yeah right, and I suppose you also believe the ice caps are melting, even though science proves they are getting bigger, but Al Gore and GE doesnt, because they stand to make billions if suckers like you buy into it. You buy this too? Get educated. Our health care is the best in the world, and if it wasnt, do you think, do you really think, that for one minute, all these people that live in free health care nations, why would they come here for medical procedures and pay for it? Doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure that one out. So think before you open your mouth, and reveal that you are a fool.

  • Actsman1,

    Communism style has never worked anywhere and it won’t work here. Why do the liberals think so now? It is not about health care anymore than Hitler was about being a babysitter.

    • s c

      There’s something very basic about ultralibs, kooks, wackos, airheads, twits, career political criminals and assorted useless idiots. That is, just because something has been tried (and it’s been an obvious, documented failure) doesn’t mean they won’t try it. That’s how stupid these people can be.
      They are allergic to common sense. Their followers have been drug around by the nose for so long that they no longer think twice about anything. They’re used to it, so don’t try to apply common sense to them or their half-@$$#^ ideas. Coomon sense works only in the real world – not in their fantasy world.

      • Smilee

        If I remove from your post the word “ultralibs” from this post and inserted the initials S C this would be a truthful post, and S C you do in fact live in a fantasy world and are out of touch with reality.

      • http://aol Don

        SC, I’m dissapointed in you. You could come up with more names than that. Did you fail fourth grade? This is the age where the young really develops name calling. I expect more from you next time. I know you can do it.

      • http://donthaveone Mark

        Lets see, liberal thought trains brought us Stalin, Hitler, Mussolini, Hussein, Rev. Jim Jones, David Koresh, Bill Clinton and now Barack Obama. Not my sort to follow. No thanks.

    • Smilee

      Her is a news flash for you, Liberals did not and do not think so now, this is just your conservative bias interfering with your ability to think straight and thus you are unable to see the truth

    • Smilee

      Actsman1, says:
      August 17, 2009 at 8:36 am

      Her is a news flash for you, Liberals did not and do not think so now, this is just your conservative bias interfering with your ability to think straight and thus you are unable to see the truth

  • David J. Baldwin

    Whenever I hear B O speaking, the content sounds like he is a horse manure salesman with a mouthfull of samples. It just doesn’t make sense.

    If you REALLY want to curb health care spending, go to the source. There are CURES for various diseases that were known long ago, but the FDA, funded by the drug companies, have all but squashed from public use. Did you know cherry growers were required by the FDA on Oct. 17, 2005 to remove all scientific information on their websites describing the health benefits of cherries? This is just the beginning. Read “Natural Health Solutions & The Conspiracy To Keep You From Knowing About Them” by Mike Adams for full details.

    Not until the FDA and the pharmaceutical industry are kept under real control will any meaningful health reform happen.

    • Smilee

      Sounds like you have manure in your ears too as you do not hear very well do you. I agree the FDA needs reform too but that is a separate issue from reform of our health care delivery systems which need reform even more albeit both are important.

      • Shain

        The problem is the FDA and the AMA have a cart blanche on being able to say what and what is not legal.

        For example, Marinol Oral is a legal drug that a friend of mine has been proscribed. It has a list of bad side effects as long as my arm. It costs $800.00 per month for the prescription. It’s one and only active ingredient is a synthetic verson of the feel good chemical in pot.

        His doctor, off the record of course, stated he should just smoke pot and get the needed benifits without all of the side-effects (Such as kidney failure), costing less then a tenth the price. He does, and not only is it cheaper, but the effects are more reliable. (He had a nerve cut, which normally informs you that you are hungry. Without it, he looks at food and just feels sick and can’t eat unless he forces the issue.)

        Now the FDA states that Marijuana has no medicinal value, and keeps it illegal as a dangerous substance. If you look at Marijuana related deaths there was one or two in America over the period of a year. When you actually look at those cases, it was not a primary component of the death, just an secondary aspect of it.

        In my studying of reforming the Health Care system, the biggest, most effective step we can do is privatize the FDA and AMA and give it NO legal jurisdiction. Instead, make them only sources of information, to allow people to make informed judgments on who and what they want to have for their health care. If a doctor has a history of fouling up, people can find that out and decide if they want him as their doctor or not. If thousands of patients are dying based on a drug (such as what we are going to see with the swine flu vaccinations), make that information public and allow the person to choose!

        As more health care professionals are available and prices are no longer fixed, and subject to economic supply and demand, the economy will cause the health care prices to drop. Bad drug companies and doctors will go out of business.

        For example, Lasik Surgery is pretty much free from a majority of government controls. Guess what? Lasik eye surgery is now safer and _cheaper_ then it was five years ago! Same thing with cosmetic surgery. It is now safer and cheaper then it was 10 years ago so you don’t need insurance to buy it. Supply and demand is making it cheaper.

        You can not state any two businesses, and probably have a hard time thinking of even just one, government has successfully run in the black. Two of the most predominate businesses Federal Government has got their hands in are the US Post Office and AMTRAK. Amtrack was supposed to be bought and sold within a year or so, to start making a profit. It has _never_ made a profit since the fed bought it. In addition, it is illegal to compete against it! US Post office is running a billion in the red every year. Other businesses, such as Federal Express (No it isn’t really Federal) and UPS are making a profit.

        Medicare and Medicaid is running DEEP in the red. In fact, so far in debt, that by 2040, it will be the only two programs that the government can afford, no military, not even any money to be able to pay for the government itself. (As published by the American Comptroller General of 2007) Some brain damaged people think that it might be safe to give over health care reform to the government?

        ANd of you think it should be just so the government can give competition to insurance companies, well the government has a benefit that no company can overcome. It can lower prices so far, that it would kill off every other company. It can do this because it has the ability to CREATE money to fund it. It doesn’t matter if it runs 10billion in the red every year, because the tax payers will pick up the tab.

        • eyeswideopen

          Since this government can’t run anything well, why in the hell do you people let them run the military? You don’t think they can protect us? Oh, that’s right we did have a small problem, but wasn’t that due to two (Bush Cheney) of our own not listening to the intelligence agencies?? Since you don’t want to grow government, why don’t we reduce our military back to the size of when the Constitution was written? You people are just not living in the real world, this country has 300 million people trying to do the right thing and live a decent life. You rt wingers want to act like we have 20,000 and don’t ever need to grow government,to provide for the additional population..

          • Shain

            I don’t trust the government to run the Military either. That is why we have the 2nd Amendment. The founders states that we should never have a standing Army, only a navy. The states can provide the militia (which based on Constitutional law is every able bodied man (probably American now women can fight just as well) between the ages of 17 and 45 make up the militia.

            Now as for government growing with the population, that would Constitutionally, legally, be an increase only the Congress, which is directly based on Census.

            There is no, none, not any lawfully backing authority for 95% of the statutes, laws, legislation and government agencies to exist. Education? We went from the Number 1 educated nation in the world to thirteenth in line since the creation of the Bureau of Education, and it has only gotten worse as government has gotten deeper into it, such as ‘no child left behind’. If you can find a single educator who considers that travesty a good thing, you can submit them to “Ripley’s Believe it or Not”.

            I have to thank the movie “Con Air” for being so accurate on the definition of insanity: To do the same thing over and over again, and expecting a different result. Why are we so enmeshed in the tennis match of Demokins vs Republicrats, when both are guilty of lying, cheating, taking bribes and screwing our nation up further and further as the years go by? Lets make a real change, vote in a Libertarian government.

            I get confused on the Liberal’s views of Libertarian, that some how Libertarian’s want a “Road Warrior”, no government situation, where people are killing each other at the drop of a hat. This is patently not true. Libertarians want little government, and that government only has one job, to protect your rights as it was placed in the Bill of Rights.

            The distinct difference between a Liberal and a Libertarian: A liberal trusts no one to do the right thing unless forced to by power with overwhelming force to back it up. That no one has the right to keep their own property. They believe weapons should only be government controlled to hold up that power. A libertarian trusts his fellow man to do the right thing. He has a right to fully own the property he worked for. A gun is tool for those rare and few times when that trust is broken.

          • eyeswideopen

            Shain, oh, how I would love to be able to go backwards. Yes, I own a gun and basically believe in some of your points, however the radicals in this country,make it hard to trust in your fellow man. ie. our present war. There was a time when we actually did function as you suggest, but being a realist means that with this large of a population, we can’t function as we did when we had so few. Our education decline is due to parents who refuse to participate. They are too busy making the almighty dollar. But you have peaked my interest and I will be doing more research as my party is using logic and has really grown the government.

          • Shain

            Why are people afraid of decreasing the government? Why is it we don’t trust ourselves to make educated choices, or just plain stupid ones and live with the consequences. This is an age of knowledge. Never before has there been such free access to voice your opinions and gain information at the touch of your fingertips. Maybe that is why Senator Rockefeller wants to shut down the freedom of the internet?

            The situation in America has never gotten better by increasing the size of the government ant it’s bureaucracy. As matter of fact, I would like to see if any nation on earth, past or present, has benefited the people with out reaching government control.

            So government gets bigger, the situation gets worse. Why not try another social experiment and reverse the trend? Let us scientifically find out if shrinking government and it’s controls will make us better or worse. I only ask the government to stick to the simple rules that each of it’s employees swore to defend and uphold. Just reading the documents, including each preface, gives you insight on how they are supposed to be followed.

            There are three documents we need to remember-

            The Declaration of Independence. Read the preface. Understand that if the government is no longer By the People, For the People we have the right, and the duty to replace it, or at least return it to where it is supposed to be at.

            The Constitution. It contains the foundation of powers that our government has. It also controls and limits those powers.

            The Bill of Rights. The preface states that the Constitution is a limiting document to the Government. The Bill of Rights shall not be violated by any of the powers granted to the Government. Just the last two, the ninth and the tenth, give cart blanch power to the people and the states over the federal government. You are starting to see a recovery of those two after being exiled for so long. States are starting to stand up to the federal government on medicinal marijuana and the right to bear arms. They are also warning the federal government that succession may occur if it doesn’t back off.

            It is up to the states and the people to reserve the powers not delegated specifically to the Federal Government. Lawfully, we have a duty to ignore, or set right, bad laws.

            Observe the groups coming together.

            Oathkeepers: For those who have taken an oath of office and actually do mean it!

            DownsizeDC.org: A group for shrinking of government.

            Republic Magazine, for hard hitting articles and great information that the big medial ignores or gets incorrect.

            Republic Broadcasting Network: republicbroadcasting.org for online talk radio. My favorite shows are The Dave Champion Show w/Dave Champion, 2A Radio w/Bill Carns, and the newer show, Radio Free Market w/ Michael McKay. (Both Dave and Bill are ex-Police officers so have some good insights on law.)

        • Lindy

          A solid post! I read it a couple of times and you make some valid points. Your opinions on the FDA and AMA are interesting. Please visit and post more often.

          • Lindy

            That should have read…

            Shain!

            A solid post! I read it a couple of times and you make some valid points. Your opinions on the FDA and AMA are interesting. Please visit and post more often.

          • Shain

            Thank you for the positive reply. I’ll try to hang around. I’m effective with constructive criticism as well. You never learn any thing more unless required to deal with the weaknesses in one’s debate.

          • eyeswideopen

            I spent the rest of the nite on Ron Paul’s web site along with the other ones, very interesting talk with husband this a.m. Can you direct me to more websites? thx.

          • DaveH

            Eyes,
            If you like Ron Paul, I think you will like this online book (I’ve posted it above, also, but I think you’re more likely to see it here):
            http://mises.org/rothbard/foranewlb.pdf

          • DaveH

            Eyes,
            Also try cato.org, mises.org, reason.org, reason.com, and libertarianparty.org

      • http://donthaveone Mark

        I agree that we need some sort of reform, which I believe to be making the drug companies lower prices, and making the doctors and hospitals stop charging so much. I mean, I had a knee surgery, Im in there under the knife for 30 minutes, 30 minute prep, and they make you stay 1 hour after waking up to be sure your allright, and its 8 thousand dollars. No way. I dont believe the solution is national health care, because of the problems it brings, in that being free, hypochondriacs will be lined up around the block, you will be forced to wait and wait, and I truly believe the qaulity of the care and the doctors will go straight down hill. The solution is that drug companies and hospitals dont need to be making 7000 percent profit, then call themselves a not for profit corporation. Uh, so where does that money go, from their profits? I like my health care the way it is, but yes, it should be a lot more affordable, but I guess Ive just talked face to face with real Canadians in real Canadian cities, over a 20 year period, and all have told me horror stories of why we dont want it here. I have read in some of these post from some who say they are Canadians and these stories are lies, but when I hear it from the horses mouth, face to face, eye to eye, with no reason to lie, I have to believe what Im told, not what I read in here. So if any of you, I would challenge you to go to Canada on a fishing trip for a week, and meet some of the locals, and talk this over, and see what you hear. Dont take my word for it, Im writing words also and could be a liar, though I am not. Go and seek the truth for yourselves, and tell me what you find. Like I said, over a 20 year period of 15 trips, Ive heard the exact same stories from different people in different provinces over and over again, and Im convinced I dont want it and that it isnt good for us.

  • DaveH
    • Smilee

      DaveH

      Dave

      This and many of your other posts here have referrals to other web sites but they all are conservative spin sites and from them you expect us to get any objective analysis or accurate reporting of anything, they are designed for one purpose and one purpose only and that is to confuse and scare people with their large amount of misinformation and outright lies. We need objective referrals but as you really do not want people to know the truth I doubt you would do anything to help with that effort.

      • http://yahoo.com albert bryans

        the mark of a good general in battle is to stand back and regrou if the oppisition grows too fierce, and this sob is good ! he is determined to push this health care law because it is as evil as he is. lets push to see his birth certificate

      • Robert P

        Smilee,

        It is typical of the left to castigate, insult, and demonize anyone with an opposing viewpoint. This is particularly evident recently from people in the Obama admistration, as well as the Democrats in the House and Senate regarding anyone that opposes the current Health Care bill. It appears this is how liberals believe they best demonstrate intelligence about a particular subject. Congratulations!! You fit right into this group.

      • DaveH

        Read the bill yourself Smilee, it’s on the web.

        • Smilee

          DaveH

          I have, and found out that your stories on of it are quite different than the real thing. Second there are other bills as well and none will be the final version voted on and after that the conference committee. The senate does not even have one yet, you conservatives are famous for putting the horse before the cart, you know ass backwards

          • DaveH

            Smilee,
            You won’t believe anything contrary to your opinion, because you don’t want to believe anything contrary to your opinion. Your mind is closed like a steel trap.
            Are you a member of Acorn, or SEIU, or some other related organization assigned to this website to spread your party’s misinformation?
            Anyone who has really read the bill knows that you are spouting nonsense much if not most of the time.

          • Smilee

            DaveH says:
            August 19, 2009 at 7:50 am

            No Dave, You said I was Black but I’m white, Not a member of Acorn or SEIU. here of my own free, think for myself and give only my own opinions, You blew it again didn’t you, your not smart enough to ever figure out who I am, your out of your league with me. Us liberals are that opened minded and because of many on this site yourself included who do not know how to think for themselves they are incapable of understanding so they resort to what you just did, sort of like goosing ghosts in the dark. Lost and confused souls. If you read the bill then it is clear it was beyond your ability to comprehend it and this seems to be the problem with many here. Many objective fact finders who have examined it have come to the same conclusion I have, Your great MS Palin got it totally wrong and you appear to be as ignorant about this issue as she is.

            YOUR POST

            Smilee,
            You won’t believe anything contrary to your opinion, because you don’t want to believe anything contrary to your opinion. Your mind is closed like a steel trap. Are you a member of Acorn, or SEIU, or some other related organization assigned to this website to spread your party’s misinformation? Anyone who has really read the bill knows that you are spouting nonsense much if not most of the time.

      • http://donthaveone Mark

        I agree again Smilee, we all need to know the truth. Thats why no one here should believe you, believe me, or believe Dave or anyone else, thats why I fully recommend the one week trip to Canada, and go fishing where you are around everyday run of the mill average people, and see what they tell you. My info I got comes from them, and for me, its a lot easier to believe someone when they live there, are subject to it, and have no reason to lie to me when I ask them questions. You and I may attempt to put our political spin on things, but the truth is out there, youve just got to go up there and ask about it, and YOU WILL GET ANSWERS. I did.

  • http://www.MicahPeak.org Jeff Brodhead

    The people who are pushing this critical change, are the very same who intend to provide “”"family planning”"” under the legislation.
    Tell us what the survival rate for the children of abortion???
    Planned Homocide will be a “provider of family planning”, under the Sebilius health care plan.
    All this BS about the legislation is a smoke-screen, to cover the fact that a non-elected “czar” will fill in the blanks of the framework written in the legislation.
    This administration is building a parasitic government, on top of OUR federal government. It is Obama’s way to circumvent the Constitution. It is our FERAL government (his actually).
    Giving ground to this self-proclaimed user of the “art of compromise” is submit to a one-sided compromise agreement – ONLY ONE SIDE LOSES!

    • http://donthaveone Mark

      And I myself could never get into bed with a party who thinks it is just fine to suck a live human baby out of a woman with a vacuum. Thats murder.

  • ONTIME

    This band of thugs and their mouthpiece are failing miserably at trying to sell this flim flam, the idea you will buy a wet paper sack on a rainy day is not being bought by those who have looked at this thousand page bill that the congress will not read. The one that the ssssssilver tongued B.O. likes to try and recite is written by the House Queen Nancy P. and co authored by Hinky Waxman, folks you can really trust when you need the help. His problem is since we don’t know how smart a mouth piece Barry is, his school records are non personna grata for us American doofus types, he has spent over a $mil to keep his public records under wraps and for what reason? If you know tell me and all America what that might be, I will bet the explanation will be well thought out….not

    Dingell the ding-a-ling let the cat out of the bag when within a day he contradicted B.O.’s no death plan claim and informed us the clause had been removed by the house, now they are backing up on more parts of this Dem agenda bill since it is getting more exposure than was ever intended. This leads to name calling, threats, thuggery all those things that losing thugs resort to when they are confronted with the exposure of their plan to con you. You ordinary Americans who flash the swastika, disrupt meetings and are generally uninformed are standing in their path and that is a unacceptable Constitutional oppositional thing to do, in the world of thuggery and blatant liars.

    There will be lots more of this type confrontation to come, there is the scheme of cap and trade, heavily laden packages for backroom taxation without representation and a lot more manufactured crises along with an occasional real crisis, we all know Rahm the Steak knife loves a good crisis(more government). This entire span of history for this administration will go down in the books as “How can we fool’em today”, bet on it.

    • http://donthaveone Mark

      And this is the very thing that will destroy and bring them down. They all want power, and they all want thier own things going, and dont give a crap about America. They tell Barack to do this, and do that, and say this, and say that, and its blowing up in his face. Soon, you watch and see, as America sours towards them, they will throw him under the bus to save thier own hides. Its a sitcom reality show. Its got an ugly ending, for them and Barack

  • http://link silus dogood

    government run is NOT the answer,we dont want to be great britton,although they are great friends,and that is why they warn us not to go there.
    the system could be fixed,by getting rid of the corruption in medicare,and medicaid. that would cut the kickbacks our elected officials get,so they arent gonna do that,they want more corruption,more kickbacks and payoffs.
    we could do lawsuit reform but we cannot do that because the lawyers who sponsered obama in both elections own him,so we cant do that,we could go after insurance reform that would lower prices,but that would make lobbiest mad,and less payoff money to politicians,so we cant do that,so where does that leave us? with a bunch of rich politicians,so crooked they will have to be screwed in the ground when they die.

  • OldieButGoodie

    Smilee,
    Why am I responsible to pay for the uninsured person’s health care?
    Why am I responsible to pay for the illegal alien’s health care?
    Where is the basic American principle of those who work…eat?

    The federal welfare system, the federal Social Security system, the federal Medicare/Medicaid system are all examples of failed federal programs. What makes you think this federal program has any chance of producing what has promised? It will eventually begin to fail and benefits will be cut back and we will remember the “Good Ole Days” when we had the horrible insurance companies running our health care.
    Do we need reform…you bet we do, but don’t get the federal government involved in it.

    • Smilee

      OldieButGoodie says:
      August 17, 2009 at 1:17 pm

      Well, then to follow your logic you should put your own fire if your house is on fire, stay off the roads or build your own, deliver your own letters anywhere in the world and on and on and on, your just a selfish old coot that cares nothing about anyone but yourself but I’ll bet you use all of the collective projects I listed here and more.

      • http://donthaveone Mark

        Now hold on here. I pay taxes to pay the fireman, and agree to. We need them. I pay taxes to fix and repair and upkeep the roads, and agree to, because again, we need them. I buy stamps to pay to deliver my postage, as the US Mail is not the government, they are a separate entity, a business have you, that charges for its service, whether it be mailing a letter or deliverying a big box. They are a for profit business. But I do take issue with them taking my tax dollars and paying for illegal aliens, and paying for those who dont want to work. Yeah, I got a big big problem with that. The church is to take care of the poor, not the government. That is what part of the 10 percent out of every check I tithe to my home church, along with my donations to the local missions help with. The government doing this is stepping in the way of the church, and though we always have the cries of separation of church and state, we need separation of state and church, and the government needs to get out of the hand out business, and let the church’s take care of it, as charged with by God himself. The government taking over health care will be a big mistake, its so easy to see it coming. Its transparent as can be, and it has nothing to do with democrat or republican, its just a bad bad idea. It will be paid for by someone, which will be the working people, and we will be paying for all those who dont want to work, still. And yes, right or wrong, I got a problem with that.

        • Smilee

          Trouble is Mark, the churches have only done a small portion of taking care of the poor etc. and often require an allegiance to their religious beliefs as well,Sme not all, so how about all those they have not helped that need help. How about the homeless veteran suffering often from the effects of his service to his country. Yes to the old coot, he does pay taxes and cares nothing about those who are unable too. Many are born disabled and I have known many, some have never been able to work, some very limited in their ability to work, their are many legitimate reasons for many who cannot pay for these or their health services. Most countries have figured this out, we as yet have not and Mark it is people like you and this old coot who have worked hard to see this does not happen so you can horde your riches and to hell with those who have not been as fortunate as you. SSI for the disabled pays about $800.00mo, you can have almost no assets and are forbidden to make no more than about $850.00 or you loose your SSI, so we barely take care of these as well and you people have no feelings for these people w2ho through fault of their own have to live this life. Brag on about your tithing Mark, I see it as a guilt offering not as a charitable act given out of love.

      • OldieButGoodie

        No, I pay taxes to participate in all the items listed. Many of those on welfare don’t pay taxes because they don’t work yet they benefit from all these “collective” items you have listed.
        “Selfish old coot”…typical liberal personal attack when their argument is weak!

    • Smilee

      If the federal government does not do it who will, you people who admit we need reform have no Idea how to do it except to keep out the federal government who is the only entity with the power to accomplish it and if they don’t do it who will. SS and Medicare are great programs and the vast majority feel that way, the problem is we do not have what Al Gore promised and that was what he called a “LOCK BOX” (trust funds like in private defined benefit plans) so the politicians cannot borrow from it and bankrupt it and that is what has happened it is a very good plan at a good cost and needs little reform except funding reform. Conservatives will not get on board to fix them as they really want them to go bankrupt so they can get rid of them. You know the selfish part of out population.

    • DaveH

      Smilee,
      He’s just a selfish old coot for wanting to keep his own hard-earned money?
      Then what are you for wanting to take (steal) his money to spend as you please?

      • Smilee

        No not as you please but for those things that we can not do for ourselves and today few can no longer afford health care, Many reasons and one is all you have to do is lose your job and few can afford the COBRA premium which is a 102% of the total premium, for a family this could easily be $2000.00 a month when they have little or no income, in 2004 I was on COBRA for myself and it cost me $590.00 a month, I was near retirement and had enough money to pay for it but younger people with out enough money are shit out of luck. Greedy, to me this is when someone who can afford to help, takes the attitude of screw you, I care nothing about you, That’s old coot’s attitude as well as yours and Mark and Mark even claims he is a Christian, of course all Christians do sin too. Health care for a healthy socity that would benefit everyone and is now a necessity. There is far cheaper ways to do this than though Medicaid, Medicare has proven this over forty some years, now if we could reform the funding of it and place all the taxes for it and SS in trusts funds so the congress and president would have to find other places to fund everything else, that would be reform. Remember Al Gore’s call for these monies to be put in a trust fund what he called “LOCK BOXES” which was a damm good idea that Bush totally laughed off during his presidency. Loose your health or wealth and any of us could be in that position at that time in the future and then you will Thank God for those of us that care.

  • http://Hotmail Mark

    Obamas Plan

    1.Government Takeover of Banking Sector Gradually (Fake Bailout)
    2.Government Takeover of the Automotive Sector Gradually (Fake Bailout)
    3.Government Takeover of the Health Sector
    4.Government Takeover of the Energy Sector (Cap & Trade)
    5.Government Takeover of the Education Sector (Just starting to hear about this recently)
    6.Banning Guns-To disarm the general public to prevent armed resistance when he converts America into a commuist run state.

    This guy is as big a fascist dictator as Stalin, Lenin, Moussellini and even Hitler!

    English North Americans need to ‘Unite and Fight!’

    • http://none Jim

      Obama is a Marxist hardcore and must be stopped and sent back to his Kenya, Africa birthplace. Sound good?

    • http://aol Don

      Back your statements up. Try your best staying away from name calling. From other blogs (if you are the same Mark) I don’t think you can, but give it a try.

    • Smilee

      Another post from Mark that reveals how confused this he really is.

      • http://donthaveone Mark

        Thats another Mark Smilee, not me. Ill have to start adding a B to mine.

  • http://none Jim

    Obama wants to kill my ailing momma and daddy and wants me to feel good about it. What am I missing here?

    • Smilee

      Jim says:
      August 17, 2009 at 1:33 pm

      Obama wants to kill my ailing momma and daddy and wants me to feel good about it. What am I missing here?

      Your missing the fact here that this is concept is manufactured by the conservatives and republicans and has no basis in fact, everyone who has looked at this objectively has concluded it is just more conservative fiction manufactured with the hopes they can ruin any reforms and protect their filthy rich friends in the health and health insurance industry.

    • Norm

      Jim says:
      August 17, 2009 at 1:33 pm
      Obama wants to kill my ailing momma and daddy and wants me to feel good about it. What am I missing here?

      Jim boy your missing a brain. No doctor in the world can cure stupid.

  • http://Hotmail Mark

    PS….This Social Engineering has been in the works for 30 years and is now being implemented from Socialist leaders in France, Germany, Italy and Spain. They get the masses on their side by abusing their ‘Red Cathiolic Church’ to push this movement.

    Red Liberal Democrats………..European Based Catholics
    Blue Conservative Republicans…………..Non Catholics

    People need to wake the hell up!

    • http://aol Don

      The European based Catholics did not support Kerry who was a Catholic. I don’t agree with the statement you made even though you can say that 60% of America who are religious are Catholic and 6 out of our 9 Supreme Court Justices are Catholic.

  • Rod

    How many times must I say this? CALL YOUR CONGRESSMAN AND SENATORS
    AND TELL THEM YOU DEMAND TO SEE HIS “REAL BERTH CERTIFICATE”, HIS
    real HARVARD UNIVERSITY RECORDS AND HIS PASS PORTS DATED FROM 1981
    TO 2008. This pretend President is NOT a citizen of the United States
    of America and therefore is not the President of the United States of
    America! Now if you think this is not an issue, then why did he sign
    an “Executive order” sealing all of his records??? Why has he been
    fighting efforts to make his records public??? Why wouldn’t he want
    to clear up this matter??? So, why arn’t you all out there calling
    your Congressman and Senators and DEMANDING to see these records.
    The American people have a right to see these records!

    • http://aol Don

      Bush did it with his military records. His military records are missing in both places they were stored. Republicans in secret said he was on rehab from his cocaine addiction during the year and a half he went AWOL from military service.

      • RobertP

        Don

        Whether that is true about Bush or not, then hiding that fact wouldn’t neccessarily have made him ineligible to be President, even though it would have made it difficult for him while he WAS President. I imagine most politicians have skeletons in their closets. It’s just a matter of whether the press or anyone else can dig up the truth on someone that is in the public spotlight. On the other hand, if Obama is not a Naturalized American citizen, then he shouldn’t be the President now. The question then remains, why is he working so hard to hide this information people are asking about?

      • DaveH

        Don,
        “Republicans in secret said”. That’s funny, not much of a secret I guess. Talk about backing your statements up with fact!

    • eyeswideopen

      omg, are you serious, John McCain wasn’t even born in a state of the United States, Congress had to pass a resolution( April 23,2009) trying to make it legal for him to become a Pres. That would have been contested as it would take a Constitutional Amendant to allow a Naturalized Citizen become Pres. The hospital where he was born didn’t even have an entry for his birth on the day he was born.. by the way, we didn’t own the Panama Canal, we only leased it for 99 years, so his parents needed to file a naturalization form for him to become a US citizen, which they didn’t do…..But you probably aren’t aware of this because the Dem’s didn’t make a big deal of it.. I just love how you people think that 48 years ago, two differnt newspapers had the psyhic ability to know that a poor black baby might grow up to be president, and knowningly put fraudulent birth announcements in both papers…and on top of that, they knew he would be a Democrat!!!!

      • http://yahoo.com joseph clemmons

        you go, the truth never hurts anyone. an i like the entire comment. an i am a conservative and yes i voted for obama.

        • eyeswideopen

          me too.

        • JanO

          Well I am an Independent, & try as hard as I could, I just couldn’t stand listening to him let alone vote for him. I recognized a Snake Oil Salesman when I heard one. I did try, but I just couln’t stomach it and saw him for the phoney he was.

      • JanO

        Are you kidding???? John McCain was born on a US base as many military families have had children on US bases all over the world. Are you trying to say that all military families children born on US bases around the world are not US citizens??? That has been the law since troops & their families have served over seas. No one passed a new law in 2009. Tsk, tsk!

        • eyeswideopen

          No, they are citizens, just not “natural Born” citizens. Untill recent laws changed, parents had to file naturalization papers to insure that they would be considered US citizens. Technically McCains parent were supposed to have filed a 240A form for naturalization, which they didn’t do. Presently legal scholars debate that the Panama Canal was never a sovereign territory and that any aggrieved taxpaper would have the right to challenge McCain’s qualifications if he were elected president. This remains an issue that the Supreme Court should hear and then Congress needs to change the constitution to allow naturalized citizen to run for president.

    • Smilee

      Rod

      Because we are smart enough to know this is all fiction and simply not true and this country now needs to focus on real problems and not conservative manufactured ones designed to derail any problem solving for the country.

  • DaveH

    Finally, we are getting a good taste of what the left-wing Democrats (and that is most of them) are all about (power for themselves). Their actions should finally wake up independant voters.

    • eyeswideopen

      Yes, Dave, the independants are now aware of how this country was hijacked by Bush and Cheney, we were functioning as a dictatorship during their reign.It is unreal that us Reps, didn’t try to protect our own rights. I am so proud that we are now a country who tortures. Republicans who are independant thinkers are voting for anyone other than their own party members to try and fix this wonderfull mess we have left for the Dem’s.

      • maggiemoo

        “Two wrongs do not make a right.” I love the argument that because Bush was bad, then Obama is good. Bush and Co. grew the government WAY too much. I was disgusted with them. But Obama makes their spending look like dimestore stuff. And not just spending us into oblivion, but taking away any and all our personal freedoms while he’s at it. And BTW, there were congressional hearings on whether or not McCain (whom I would never vote for) was qualified to be prez, but not one question about Obama who has never released any documents that could prove he is a “natural born” citizen. And he has spent approximately 1 million dollars on lawyers to keep his records sealed. Why? What is he hiding?

        • eyeswideopen

          Well the Republican Governor of Hawaii, please underscore Republican has validated his birth certificate and it has been shown on cnn,nbc, msnbc, cbs, abc but not on the Rep’s faux news channel Fox. It is so funny that 59% of the reps watch that show, murdock has bought and paid for the republican thought process. If it is on Fox they believe it….so sad. Why don’t all you birthers just admit that you are racist and can’t stand a black man being pres. That would be more intelligent and understandable, rather than this crap about the birth certificate. Basically, you are saying that the Reps who vetted him, were incompetent?? Millions were spent by the rnc to try and find the goods prior to him winning the nomination, maybe you should complain to the national party, because they didn’t find anything.

          • Shain

            You do realize, that based on investigation, there were four distinct ways of getting a certificate of live birth in Hawaii in the time of 1963? Of those four, only one would prove that individual was actually born in Hawaii. The other three equate to mail-ins with no supporting proof that the infant was actually born in the state. I’m guessing, since B.O. has absolutely refused to present his long form Birth Certificate, it was based on one of the other three. Meaning, he has no proof of being a ‘Natural’ American Citizen. He may be a citizen, but so can someone from Iraq walking in though the immigration ‘gate’. Based just on odds, it is 75% unlikely that Obama can actually prove Natural citizenship. Being that he has gone out of his way to avoid the evidential document, that likely hood goes up to about 99% that he can not prove Natural born Citizenship, which is a Constitutional Requirement for his job position.

            It’s interesting what the Governor doesn’t say about the document he reported on seeing. He didn’t say that Obama was a “natural” born citizen, only that he has seen the documents. In any case, remember the rule about politicians: They lie. They lie even when the truth would serve them as well.

            I don’t think the Governor swore anything under oath either, so the ‘evidence’ is plainly hearsay, and wouldn’t be admitted to a court of law with any other weight attached, assuming a court will touch the subject, which each and every one is afraid to do, when it is their Constitutional Duty to hear, see the evidence and rule the case.

          • eyeswideopen

            Oh, I agree we should definately treat him like a dog and ask to see his papers….It wouldn’t matter to any of the radical rt. Did you also know that John McCain isn’t even listed in any hospital paperwork on the supposed day he was born? Was he really born in the Panama Canal?? No records, and there is photocopy showning ommission of his name on date he claims he was born…What were his parents trying to hide? They didn’t file a 240aform to request his naturalization. Must be a conspiracy of some sort. Like I said before, so wise that his parents must have known that a poor black kid was going to be president and had the forethought to lie and plant birth notices in both newspapers. unbelievable…what would it really take?? You have already stated that nothing could convince you. This debate is over for me,,and the Birther’s can’t do anything about it but sound like bad losers. Like I said take it to the RNC they failed you, in more ways than one.

          • Shain

            Actually, who said that his parents had to have any idea he was going to go in for politics when he was older? The only thing that they might have wanted was Barack Obama to be a US Citizen with all the benefits. Tris has very little to do with the Politician of today, but of expediency of when he was born.

  • http://www.twoey.com Twoey Clarke

    There is no such thing as “Constructive Dialogue” on creating
    socialism in our country, only our unending fight against the
    left to preserve our God-given Constitutional liberties.

    What the Obamanation says he fears is “not doing anything” (which
    is usually, in reality, the best option for the feds). What
    he is REALLY saying is he fears NOT socializing medicine, which
    is one of the prime goals of that Marxist.

    Socialism doesn’t work because it DEFIES human nature.
    Worse: it kills – either through rationing’s neglect
    or undersupply’s trickle-up poverty and starvation.

    • Lindy

      Twoey…

      Don’t confuse socialism and marxism and communism. Marxism and Communism are political systems that don’t like capitalism. Traditionally, Communists develop a ruling elite that becomes worse than the royalty it replaced. Communism and Marxism are usually doomed to failure because, like Frank Zappa said, “people like to own shit.”

      Socialism is an economic system where government competes with or replaces a free market category. All governments are at least a bit socialist, because a privately run fire department just wouldn’t work. Just thought you might want to know.

      • eyeswideopen

        I knew I liked you…great response.

      • Shain

        Actually, about one of the only government programs I care for is the Fire Department. But even that can easily be privately owned and operated as a form of local insurance. That only requires local property tax, not a single thing to do with Federal taxes at all. Makes sense that each owner of property should pay a little something to keep their property safe from run away fires.

        Police department doesn’t need near as many people as it has. Take of 99% of the gun laws and let each and every lawful citizen be armed and the only thing that would need to be done is to write up the crime scene.

  • Eric Bischoff

    I keep coming back to this site and I read all of the comments and in the end I think to myself. This country, this capitalist system, this empire building abusive nation may not be worth saving any more. Maybe we are just another failed experiment, another failed foot note for history. We have no compassion and certainly no knowledge of facts. Maybe the reason we are the way we are today is because we eat crap and we live in a totally polluted environment. Maybe we are not capable of great things anymore. We are just mediocre, mean and stupid and we think we are better than everyone else in the world. How sad.

    There is not much time left to atone. The wrath of this planet is coming. Like it or not we will all pay dearly for this.

    And guess what! we are not going to get meaningful healthcare reform so this whole forum is just another masturbation exercise. We won’t get it because we are not willing to do the right things. Like canceling the corn subsidies that gave us subsidized fast food and corn syrup which then gave us an epidemic of diabetes. Or like telling the mafia insurance industry that the party is over they’ve abused us enough. Or like allowing cheaper alternative healthcare into the mix instead of using gestapo techniques to put them out of business.

    So make sure you ask your doctor to give you more drugs because you saw it on TV you morons. Have nice life.

    • eyeswideopen

      Eric, I agree and I only hope that you are young, and will not give up, this country needs people like you, who are not hood winked into believing that one party is always totally correct.

    • Smilee

      Eric Bischoff

      Your right the food industry needs reform too and there is plenty of evidence to indicate that is the reason that causes many of our medical needs today and would be very helpful to lowering medical costs as well as producing a healthier population, but as long as we have so many who worship the status quo and are stuck in the eighteenth century we will have difficulty doing what needs to be done to reform both of these very real problems.

  • Rod

    Obama will ultimately fail just like Hitler ,Stalin and Nero and every
    one of those CREEPS did that thought we could not think for our selves. The American people are finding out that Satan can smile
    when he tells you to bend over! This (so called) Health bill must
    be defeated! Everyone MUST fight these criminals in Washington.

    Send Obama back to Kenya (where he was born). He can take Palosi and
    Teddy Kennedy and don’t forget his 33 czars and a host of his “special” friends with him. I understand they are not as paticular
    as we are.

  • Rod

    The more I listen to the people that voted for obama the more I hear,
    They would not have voted for obama if they had known what he meant
    when he talked about bringing change. Well folks, 2010 is comming up
    and if you get off your duffs and VOTE! VOTE! VOTE! we can change this
    Congress and neutralize the CREEP that is renting the flat in the
    White House!

  • don’t worry be happy

    The medical industry is THE biggest lobby group in Washington. B O is merely trying to establish a perpetual source of campain funding through his health care reform. The media, of course, are jumping on the bandwagon. Can you imagine the advertising budget that pharma corps spend on their cold remedies, pain relief meds ect.ect. We are talking hundreds of millions of dollars worth of revenue weekly.

    The media will spin the story their clients want YOU to hear.

  • Joe

    I just can’t believe my eyes..and ears.
    We in canada have had a perfectly well functioning system that almost everybody is in favor of.
    We’ve gone through every single problem you can imagine
    I have heard some of the most absurd, rediculous concerns imaginable
    This stuff has all been sorted out in any of a dozen other countries.
    LOOK NORTH AND LEARN

    • eyeswideopen

      Joe, we can’t admit that any other country could have a well functioning system. Common sense would dictate that if your system didn’t work, after a number of years, wouldn’t your country have trashed it?? 18 other countries have similiar programs which they continue to use, but that must mean that they are stupid because only we know what is right. Please pray for us.

  • Chas Warren

    From the Comment Policy: “Make your case passionately, but civilly. Please don’t stoop to name calling.” This would be a much more constructive dialogue if this policy was enforced. Are there any forums where meaningful dialogue occurs? Recommendations, please.

    • RobertP

      Chas,

      Unfortunately, I think the only way to ensure there is constructive dialogue, without all the name-calling, insults, and inflamatory language is to have someone that owns the website to filter all responses before allowing their posting. This is how other sites do it.

  • Rich

    I have read many comments on here bashing or raving about the liberals and conservatives alike, naming them as the Democrat and Republican parties. The Republican party is not conservative, they are just mild liberals, and the Democrats are the ultra liberals. The only parties in the US that are conservative are the Libertarian and the Constitutionalists. Both parties believe in the core values of the constitution, but as many will point out the constitutionalists are too religiously fundamental, and the libertarians tend to have crack pots as spokesman. Yes I know this. I am not happy with the way the Mr. Obama has decided to shove his agenda down the throats of the American people, which is exactly what every president prior to him has done. Bush shoved the emergency acts taking away our fundamental freedoms all in the name of security after 9/11 and we like sheep followed him blindly saying ‘yes, take away my rights’. Now we have another president trying to do exactly the same thing!

    A little history lesson which has been started in several posts is that BIG governments fail, want proof look at the Roman Empire, the USSR, the British Empire, etc. I am NOT saying they all failed for the same reasons, but they ALL failed. The all failed for one simple reason and that is as humans we are all prone to corruption when in power. I don’t care how much of a ‘Boy/Girl Scout’ you are growing up, but once you get a taste of power you want more, and that was the basic reason for all of the great civilizations downfalls. Russia wanted to prove how rich they were during the cold war and made themselves go broke, England over extended herself politically causing her empire to retract back to manageable level and the monarchy became a part of their culture and do not rule them as they once did. I can go on but quite frankly I believe most here get the point.

    This health insurance reform fraud is just another way for the government to show it’s superiority over it’s citizenry. They prove that when they are unwilling to put themselves on the same insurance as they are wanting for the rest of us. Our government’s problems do not start with Bush either, Clinton signed NAFTA causing a lowering of the value placed on American workers, because the congress and senate decided it was OK to send those same jobs tax free overseas. Bush Sr. lied through his teeth with his statements of ‘No new taxes’ passing laws once in office raising the taxes. Reagan, Carter, Nixon, and on all swore an oath and failed miserably at defending the Constitution.

    One question I have is why do we allow our president powers that he is so obviously taking that are completely not his in the Constitution? From what I have read and understand, his job is to basically police congress and senate, not to pass laws or push laws. His job is to oversee intrastate diplomacy and foreign relations. He is not a lawmaker, but we allow him to be, why? Every president in my lifetime has treated the presidency as if he were a monarch and we his serfs, are we not the land of the free? Yes I know this ended up more than one question but they are all related to the first.

    Anyways, I pray that we the people do not allow our government to become so large that George Orwells prophetic book 1984 will never become a reality as it was in the USSR.

  • Rich

    I would like to make a response to Eyeswideopen, yes Canada and many other countries have a good state ran medical system. They are not perfect, but at least their government is not ran like ours. The manage their monies much better than the bloated government here in the US, but still fall short monetarily for their medical. Want change, so do I, but not at the cost that Mr. Obama is asking of me. I would be behind something like subsidized health care, which is what many states are doing. Yes I know for a fact even that would raise taxes, but at least then all the people with bleeding hearts can feel good about themselves stating everyone in the US has insurance. That is my concession to you feeling bad about yourself because someone else won’t pull their own weight.

    I am not a bleeding heart I am against ALL socialized programs. I have never collected any monies from the federal government other than those provided to me while I served in the military. I was given 60% disability when I left the military but as of yet have not collected one dime of the money that would have given me, because I am quite able to work. Too many people in the US want a free hand out and that sir/ma’am is just plain ole laziness. You know my mom likes to tell a story about me when I was three that goes something like ‘a bum walks up and asks for change and my impetuous three year old tells him to get a job!’ I guess I must have learned early that nothing in life is free, not even freedom which is paid for with the highest price one can give, and allows people to voice their opinion, burn the American flag and everything else taken for granted in this great nation.

    You want more of your freedoms taken away please by all means get behind HR 3200. If you want to know what your giving up in the process read it and then make your statements. Don’t listen to the gossip and rhetoric of Mr. Obama. He is a politician and all politicians lie. They may not tell a flat out lie but they will stretch/bend the truth in ways to make a lemon seem sweet and an apple sour. I have read close to 500 of the 1000 + pages and am horrified by what I understood. So read for yourself what you think is so precious and dear and then think about it, this plan is nothing like what they have in Canada or England’s. It is full of racial profiling and benefits for doing so, as long as that profiling is in favor of the minorities. It has caveats allowing the IRS to make collections on medical debts you don’t pay, can we say wage or bank account garnishments, the Comptroller of Currency is in charge of appointing the medical board and more such absurdities. This plan is crap and is not meant to help the American people at all.

    • eyeswideopen

      i agree with most of what you are saying, except I don’t see anywhere from anybody a plan on how to get us started on a different path. As a military brat, I grew up with a ” village” around me. People helping each other when difficulties arose. Because I traveled around the world, I am probably more accepting of other cultures, and races. I have been a conservative my whole life, and am very angry that my party had such a big impact for the past 8 yrs, and we are making no attempt to solve any problems. So, who has a plan?? Where do people like myself go to help ?

      • Rich

        I do have a simple plan to start us on a different path quit voting Republican or Democrat and vote Libertarian or Constitutionalist (spelling may be wrong but I think that is how they spell it) or pick your third party. I don’t care which party you vote for just don’t vote for the 2 parties that have spit on the oath they ALL swore to uphold and in my humble opinion should never be allowed to serve in any form of government again. There are a few that are not bad, but I am making a broad comment not to insult those few good representatives or senators we have. I can only think of 1 off hand from TX but hey that is just me. People want to say how expensive it is to run a campaign, well I say that is a crock with today’s technology, look at what we are doing, we are having a discussion an not one of us has met. Yes some of the comments are more colorful than others and some more edgy, but the point it we are discussing this from all 4 corners of the US and some from other countries without meeting. What is more beautiful than that?

      • DaveH

        Eyes,
        Call me pessimistic, but I don’t think there is any hope. But there could be, if most of the citizens woke up to the fact that Big Government is in the business of growing itself either innocently with good intentions (remember that the road to hell is paved with good intentions) or not.
        I think the best chance we have is for people to become acquainted with the Libertarian Party. The main thing preventing most from doing that is they think they are throwing away their vote. But what do we gain by voting for someone who doesn’t really represent our ideals? I consider voting for the “lesser of two evils” to be a much bigger waste of my vote. I think the Libertarian concept of freedom is much purer and more defensible than either the Republican definition of freedom or the Democrat definition of freedom.
        If your fear of “throwing away your vote” is insurmountable, then at least register as Libertarian to grow their numbers, and then vote for the “lesser of two evils”.

  • s c

    Lord Acton solved most of the riddle [power tends to corrupt. absolute power corrupts absolutely]. Common sense solves the rest of the riddle (our politicians are above the law).
    A town hall meeting is as close as we can get to making a politician accountable [these events are either a) real and intense or b) staged and phony]. When people have no practical way to RESOLVE grievances, this is why these meetings are so emotional.
    We no longer have leaders. We have pretenders. Some of these pretenders work for other countries. We, the people, are on our own. It will take an outraged populace and a Depression-era Supreme Court to enforce the Constitution.
    Parties won’t help us, as they are made up of yet more pretenders. The media is infected with journalism-for-sale. In the shadows, hostile governments wait for America to implode. Domestic enemies are the clear and present danger. Do we have what it takes to rescue America?
    Either we recognize our domestic enemies (and the foreign bosses they work for), or we go down without a fight. Either we enforce the Constitution, or we scrap it. Either we band together and do that which is right, or we surrender and let tyranny win.
    So, America, are you on the side of freedom or tyranny? No one can be neutral in this battle. Make no mistake. This is a historical battle, and America’s future is at stake. Are there any among us who would not choose freedom?

  • http://AOL Ricko

    The Federal Government Runs :(

    The Post Office—Which is 8 billion in the “Red” so they just keep increasing postage and passing it on to the tax payers. Private firms would make a profit running the Post Office (like when Obama goofed up said UPS & Fed X make profits)

    Social Security—Which the Federal Government raids every year and has it going broke and the hard working tax payers who paid into this all of their lives will not receive it thanx to the greedy Politicians (who keep their pay and benefits for life) SHAMEFUL….

    Medical Benefits & Welfare—-to the Illegal Immigrants who pay no taxes and are draining the resources that the hard working tax payers pay for. Why work..when you get it for free….Welfare at its best.

    Tax payers are fed up with the self serving politicians and their failed promises.
    Term Limits should be put on all Political Offices to stop the Greed…Waste…Self serving…Power hungry politicians who would sell their souls for a vote….If a Politician has been in office for 4 years…Its time to go.

    And you want to run Health Care……Give us a break & TERM LIMITS on all of Congress who got us in this mess.

    • DaveH

      Ricko,
      Well said, but I do think term limits are not the answer, as then the good get thrown out with the bad. Also, since they would not be accountable to the voters in the following election they would have little incentive to do the right thing. What I would much rather see is for the voters to get educated and realize that Big Government takes on a life of its own unless the voters get active and protect their freedoms vociferously. We need to make the voters aware of the mechanisms that leaders use to perpetuate and grow their power.
      They have cohorts in their quest for power such as public schools, self-absorbed sycophantic media outlets, and bought-and-paid-for scientists. Instead of paying attention to the politicians’ flowery rhetoric, think outside the box and wonder what’s in it for them?
      As an example, take Campaign Finance Reform. Any good election specialist can tell you that it takes a very-well-financed campaign to unseat an incumbent. By limiting the flow of campaign funds the incumbents, who are already hard to unseat due to their years of exposure, are even less likely to lose their seats. When passing the reform, they (the incumbents) railed about the “rich” buying the election. Are we so stupid that we can’t vote otherwise than the way the “rich people’s” ads are requesting us to vote? Of course we’re not. No matter how much money a special interest pours into a campaign, in the end we choose to vote the way we think is best. The incumbents’ real goal with Campaign Finance Reform was to keep their positions of power.

  • DaveH

    For all the pie-eyed liberals,
    Every time a new government agency is created, there are that many fewer productive people our economy. In fact, I call them negatively productive, because their job is not to produce but rather to interfere with the productivity of others.
    How many more non-productive middle-men do you think we can support before our economy finally collapses? Your politics of envy are going to hurt all but the priviliged power-elite.

  • Rob Tresun

    This co-op idea for ObamaCare sounds interesting but the American people should not stand down quite yet. I wouldn’t trust these left wing Democrats as far as I could throw them. I personally don’t think Mr. Obama is smart enough to care about what we want & I sure don’t think his giant ego willl allow him to give something up that he’s been talking up for so long.

  • s c

    The stakes are too high for b o to give up. His masters are leaning hard on him to ‘produce.’
    Call the ‘co-op’ idea a trojan horse, a trojan condom, old manure in a new paper sack, deja vu, silver-plated horse crap, stupidity on steroids, a paranoid’s buffet, LSD for the masses, ecstasy in every pot or saul alinsky’s ‘gift’ to health care, consider the SOURCE of the idea.
    B O can’t be trusted with helping senior citizens cross a street. Anybody who uses unaccountable czars, ACORN, community organizing or a congressional rogue’s gallery is someone America can never trust.
    It’s too late for Mr. Transparency to change his ‘colors.’ He’s declared war on America. That makes him persona non grata. Period.

  • Rich

    SC I have to say I agree with your sentiments but don’t believe that armed conflict is necessary. I believe that we can fix the ‘sucking chest wound’ that the Democrats and Republicans have gouged into the chest of America trying to rip her heart out. How? Well quite simply don’t vote for the people, and vote for a third party. Most people say ‘if I vote x,and not for Republicans or Democrats I am just throwing my vote away.’ Well maybe if enough people stop believing that we can inflict real damage to both of the corrupted parties.

    • DaveH

      Amen.

  • John C. Davidson

    Both parties have made it very difficult for a third party to break the strangle hold they created. We have just sat back far too long and allowed the chaos to evolve. Now, most of them are hiding from us and whining becuasee their cushy lifestyle is threatened.

    • DaveH

      John,
      In that respect, maybe Obama has done this country a favor by waking citizens up to the power-tripping nature of politicians. A healthy distrust of government would go a long way towards heading this country back in the right direction, i.e. the limited government that our forefathers envisioned.

      • s c

        Whoa, DaveH! I know what you mean, but we’re dealing with nation-destroyers and multi-faced slime bags. B O will never do America any favors. He has – BY ACCIDENT – revealed his true face to America.
        Even the prostitute media can’t protect b o from his own words and useful idiot schemes.
        We can’t afford to give these people ANY benefit of ANY doubt. They are NOT to be trusted. These nation-rapers use the words and ideas of people like edward bernays, saul alinsky, lenin, gramsci, stalin, mao, hitler and a host of other freedom-hating vermin.
        In particular, read the works of bernays, alinsky and gramsci.

    • Norm

      John
      The chaos was created by many things.
      The biggest single factor is the decline of the middle class. There is no problem in this country that can’t be solved with money. Unfortunatly, when skilled workers who earned more than $30/hr., have to work for $8/hr.(if they work at all) bad things happen. When the middle class becomes poor, they pay little or no taxes, and rely on government handouts including food stamps, welfare, unemployment checks, free health care and on and on.
      Wealth is concentrated in the hands of a small number of families. The wealthiest 1 percent of families owns roughly 34.3% of the nation’s net worth, the top 10% of families owns over 71%, and the bottom 40% of the population owns way less than 1%.
      The middle class ia getting poorer not because of government, although many in government are in the mega millionaire club. It is getting poor because the ultra rich in their greed and lack of morals and nationalism have sold their and our country down the river.

      Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains.
      Thomas Jefferson

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        My question would be, if you or anyone out there knows it, the wealthiest 1 percent, that own 34.3 percent of the worlds wealth, according to Norm, are they Democrats, Republicans, or not even Americans. Then, since they own this so called wealth, how many companies to they own, and how many dollars of tax revenue to they generate? It seems a lot of so called rich people are damned by people because they are rich, but a lot of them, more than not, employ much of the work force in this country, and they pay over 80 percent of the taxes. So I think if we are going to damn them to death for being wealthy, shouldnt we thank them for the millions they employ and give life to, and for the millions of tax dollars they generate to keep this country running? I think fair is fair, as I know I for one, have never had a poor man give me job, not once. I am what is called the middle class, maybe even lower middle class at 50 grand a year, and Ive got all I need and have never wanted for anything, and I give 10 percent of all I make away right off the top to my church, then I give more after that. Too many of us have to live in a house that is more expensive than we need, and drive cars that are more expensive and nicer than we need. We eat at Applebees and Lone Star steakhouse instead of McDonalds or Burger King. We buy Heinze ketchup instead of the off label. I mean we are so spoiled, weve got it all here, and still so many bitch bitch bitch about how bad it is, and how evil the rich guys are. So fricking what. Get over it. Their rich and Im not, doesnt bother me. The majority of the people think the republicans are the rich guys and the democrats are the poor guys, and we all know thats not true. The democrats have more money than anyone, and thats a fact. Check on the politics of the worlds wealthy, not just the top 10, but say the top 500. My money says 3/4 of them are democrats. So why do you so called poor keep voting for these guys? Have they improved your conditions? Or are you still dependant on welfare, food stamps and the like, but just get more. If you havent moved off the government hand out rolls, youve been kept down, I got news for you.

        • Norm

          Beberoni
          What would you say if your kind, benovolent company replaced your modest $50K job with a $10K job in China or India or maybe Mexico or even Viet Nam? What if they handed you a layoff slip and you couldn’t find a job for $50K? Would you think it good that they get million dollar bonouses for their “brilliant” management skills? Not everyone is like this, of course, but far too many are. Their political beliefs do not seem to be a factor. Money is the factor. I think everyone has a a right to be rich. I admire guys like Bill Gates and Warren Buffett. I despise people who sell the country out. When you or others in your situation loose your jobs it costs all the rest of us more. When our industries are gone they will not come back. We can’t supply our own needs in this country anymore. I grew up in the 50′s and 60′s. The US was a great country and I was very proud of it. Now not so much.

        • eyeswideopen

          Beberoni, or who ever you are. I think you don’t understand that most companies in America avoid taxes at the end of the year by paying dividends to the shareholders. So the wealthy in this country not only don’t pay a proportionate personal tax rate, but the companies they own avoid paying corporate taxes entirely. I hope you didn’t take any bets on who owns the majority of companies in this country, as you would be wrong. Us Republicans own the majority. Just check out ownership or the CEO’s and CFO’s of these companies: Goldman Sac’s, Aig, Bank of America,United HealthCare,State Farm, Fox news,basically just check the fortune 500. Rupert Murdock’s empire with the cable and newspapers should scare the hell out of you. You might also want to check to see who was running Freddie and Fannie, the Fed Reserve and SEC.during the past 12 years. You won’t be happy. You think that because Obama won that the Dem’s are more wealthy, not true, he was able to get the newly registered to contribute small amounts numerous times. The minorities and white Independant’s in this country used the internet, tv, cell phones, newspapers, town halls, and a true grassroots coalition to organize and elect someone the Repubs never believed had a chance. In a democracy it is never good for one party to retain power for too long. Us Republicans want to belive that only we have the answers and are right. If that were true, there would only be one party, one religion and no freedom. I can’t believe the hate spewed at our fellow citizens and it is very interesting that us Republicans can’t or won’t accept any responsibility for any of the problems we are currently experiencing. It took deregulation of the banking industry, the “war for no reason” and a Congress who didn’t address: immigration,oil dependance,energy shortages,healthcare, unfair trade agreements,education,(no child left behind is a joke),unfair and illegal banking practices, the loss of manufacturing industries, etc. etc.. We spent the way we like to accuse the Dem’s of spending. We didn’t balance a budget, hell we didn’t even include the billion dollars a month war cost, in the deficit beacuse it would look too bad. We shouldn’t worry about some terrorist attacking us, as we are attacking ourselves from the inside, by the non-Christian way we are treating anyone who isn’t a Conservative Republican. Guess what, Jews, Blacks,Caucasian’s Muslims,Asians,Christians,Independant’s, Democrat’s and Republicans, all of us died in 9-11. My son and husband died to protect your right to disagree, but not to hate each other. We like to protray ourselves as a God fearing Christian country, but anyone who read these blogs would disagree.

          • Norm

            Amen!

          • DaveH

            eyes,
            Dividends are paid by corporations from after-tax income. Prior to 2003, the individual receiver of the dividends also paid taxes on the dividend, thus there was double-taxation. The 2003 tax act muddied the waters quite a bit, but I’m pretty sure that the corporation still pays the dividends out of after-tax income. If you have ever delved into the tax code, it is amazingly Byzantine.
            According to data from the IRS, the bottom 50 percent of income earners pay approximately 4 percent of income taxes.
            The top 25 percent of income earners pay nearly 83 percent of the income tax burden
            The top 1 percent of income earners pay almost 35 percent of all income taxes. This isn’t their fair share?
            Please read the above statements carefully before you tell me the percentages add to more than 100%.
            Socialism is propped up by the politics of envy, and it has failed everywhere that has fully applied it.
            I agree that some corporations are getting benefits from Big Government (subsidies, special tax-breaks, protection from competition, etc.) but that isn’t going to change under the Democrats. The bigger the government gets, the more there are going to be shady dealings with not only Corporations, but other groups and individuals. Leaders thrive on pitting one group of citizens against the other, so they can use the resulting crises to grow their power.
            Remember, Government is force not reason. Big government is the problem, not the solution.

          • eyeswideopen

            Dave,The Feds spent on corporate subsidies 92 billion during 2006, those went to:IBM, Xerox,Boeing,Motorola, Dow Chemical,etc.etc. which is commonly called corporate welfare.Qualified dividend income of which most domestic companies utilize are not included in Net Investment Income. Which means electing to report an amount of the dividend equal to the interest paid as ordinary income creates the ablility to reduce the effective tax rate on those dividends from 15% to zero. Co-operatives allocate dividends by the shareholders activity then it is a pre tax expense.The capitalist political economy towards large corporations allows them to privitize profits and socialize losses.Socialism for the rich and capitalism for the poor happens when state policies assure that more resources flow to the rich than to the poor. Which is just what we watched Congress do for Wall Street. Honestly it is really hard to find many companies who pay the famous 35% rate. That’s why Warren Buffet and Bill Gates admitted that they should be paying more taxes. To quote Warren, “his secretary pays a higher percent of taxes than he does”. I hated watching this happen, but it had to be done,as the next step was a full blown depression. Capitalism has to be regulated or it will become so successful that it will implode upon itself.

          • eyeswideopen

            Dave,
            Hate to make comment on IRS,as that was my first job, in Austin, Tx as a Tax auditor…sometimes their facts and figures are out right lies.

      • DaveH

        Don,
        You seriously need to read this online book. The people you worry about can only work their magic legally through government.

        http://mises.org/rothbard/foranewlb.pdf

        • DaveH

          Sorry Don, I meant that for Norm.

        • Norm

          DaveH
          Hate to make comment on IRS,as that was my first job, in Austin, Tx as a Tax auditor…sometimes their facts and figures are out right lies.

          ?

          As I stated once before, your a hardcore hate media right winger.
          Your trickle down theory BS is just what Rush ans Sean spout out daily. And when all else fails – play the liar card!
          Dave your smarter than that.

          • Norm

            I apologize for the typos. I miss spellcheck.

          • eyeswideopen

            Norm,
            that was me, eyes, who made that statement about IRS, not Dave.Let me qualifiy the lies part, by stating, when we did an analysis of fraud, we sometimes showed it to be in a different part of the country, the numbers were right, but the location wasn’t. So I learned at a young age that government will always serve itself.

  • http://donthaveone Beberoni

    Im tired of people writing things and using my name, so Im hoping this enters me under a new name. Ill go from there.

  • DaveH

    The liberals are boycotting Whole Foods Market because their CEO John Mackey came out against the government’s health care plan. John instead offered 8 free market ideas to solve our healthcare problem. Most of them would cut back current government involvement in healthcare. Of course the liberals can’t handle that; they are trying to grow government, not shrink it.
    Here are his suggestions:
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204251404574342170072865070.html
    I suggest that anyone who cares about freedom shop at Whole Foods and reverse the boycott.

  • Rich

    Dave, I would love to shop Whole Foods but the prices are just out of my league.

    Eyeswideopen, Thank you for your passionate post. I am sorry your the loss of your son, and want to say thank you for teaching him that freedom sometimes needs to be fought for. I will disagree with the statement that the war in Iraq is unjust or wasn’t needed. I know that the reasons we were really there were not those that are right and just, but we did overthrow a dictatorial leader that was oppressing the freedoms of his citizenry, may they never lose that again to anyone of any nationality or creed. I refuse to say race because there is but one race and that is human, we may have different colored hair, skin and eyes but just as there is but one race of dog or cat with many breeds so too are we but one race. I want to say that the fight for freedom is a never ending fight and without vigilance it will always be taken away by those in power, I don’t care how they color it. I say that there is probably a good portion of those from both parties registered Democrat and Republican. Ted Turner of Time Warner, married to Jane Fonda both are rich with a great deal of clout both are registered Democrats and are about as far left as you can get. Hell Jane Fonda of her own free will caused the deaths of several American POW’s in Vietnam, that is not my story, that is the story of 1 of the pilots severely beaten after she turned on them trying to notify their families they were still alive. I am not saying that story to open up old wounds, but to prove how far to the left she is, she sided with communists during Vietnam and not her own countrymen. According to http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dan-treul/fortune-500-ceos-favor-de_b_74017.html the Fortune 500 CEO’s which are usually some of the most wealthy in the US like the Democrats, so I can see where the stats are coming from.

    I will say that they are most likely going Democrat at this point for a number of reasons with the way a Republican ran Congress and Senate under the leadership of Bill Clinton enacted the NAFTA agreement, causing many of the losses of the American middle class jobs to foreign shores, by allowing tax breaks to places not intended by the agreement.

    I am going to stop now and write on my blog at http://untamedsavage.blogspot.com/ and yes the name fits me very well based on the fact that I have been dehumanized and ridiculed by the Democrat party and would not piss on any one of their leaders if they were on fire at this point.

  • DaveH
  • Chris

    would you people whom view barry as savior be interested in knowing where his loyalities truely lie?

    google here:
    Obama Nation of Islam Saudi connections + joshuapundit blogspot

    RESEARCH PEOPLE!!! DO NOT BE LEAD AS LAMBS TO A SLAUGHTER

  • Rich

    No offense but I would rather not listen to some of the extreme conspiracy theories. I would rather look at things that are completely tangible. There is no conspiracy that the Liberal left are either Fascist or Communist, those are the government styles of the left. Obama admitted he studied in Jordan and that he converted to the Muslim faith at one point in the primaries, or maybe it was before them, but the back lash from that made him just not answer questions as to his faith. Who cares if he is Muslim, Hindu or Satanist? Most Muslims do NOT want the destruction of the west or anyone else, it is a minority just as we have hate groups in the US so too do other countries have hate groups and the memberships of those groups swell to large numbers and sometimes they fade into oblivion. The more impoverished the people the easier to persuade them that all of their problems are from someone else and that by going after them they can solve all of the problems, which is hogwash. His ideology is more based on the fact of our country since the times of FDR has embraced either Fascist or Communist views depending on the era. The 50′s were Fascist with the ‘Witch Hunt’s’ of congress for the communist conspiracy. The 60′s were Communist with the Flower Child and Hippie movements. The 70′s well were just depressing, for me at least I pooped my diaper in that era. Honestly though our country is a melting pot of ideals and peoples and hopefully we don’t blend that brew down to the point that it is but a footnote in history.

  • Larry D. Crumbley

    HELLO,
    THERE IS A WHOLE LOT OF DEBATE HERE ON THIS SUBJECT. ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COMES TO THE SEN. THAT HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH IT BEING WRITTEN. I SEE WHERE “HE” HAS A LOT OF FANS IF YOU WILL. LESS JUST SAY ONE THING, AND ONE THING ONLY. IF THESE BUMS UP IN WACKO-(WASHINGTON)-D.C. THINK FOR ONE MINUTE THEY ARE GOING TO SUPPRESS US AS FREE PEOPLE THEY ARE BARKING UP THE WRONG TREE, AND THERE LEADER CAN WEE-WEE-WEE-WEED HIS SELF ON BACK TO WHEREVER HE REALLY CAME FROM,
    AND OF COURSE I AM SPEAKING ABOUT OBAMA. WHAT A HUGE LOSER. WE CANNOT EVEN GET A STRAIGHT ANSWER OUT OF HIM ON HOW THIS SO-CALLED BILL WILL BE PAID FOR. DOES ANYBODY KNOW HOW THEY WILL BE PAYING FOR IT? E-MAIL ME BACK AT bearone7777@yahoo.com, and let me know. GOD BLESS EVERYBODY, AND BY THE WAY SEN. KENNEDY IS NOW PAYING FOR HIS SINS. THE YOUNG-LADY THAT GOT KILLED IN HIS CAR WHEN IT WENT OFF THE BRIDGE. IT IS NOW HER TURN. WHERE IS THE JUSTICE? IT IS NOW BEING SERVED. SHE IS LOOKING DOWN FROM HEAVEN, AND SAYING IT IS ABOUT TIME.

    THANK YOU,
    LARRY D. CRUMBLEY
    bearone7777@yahoo.com

  • Smilee

    factcheck.org just put out a release on the HR3200 health care bill. They had been asked to check out 48 claims about it mostly being circulated through emails but also many other places including some that are found here. They checked the claims against the actual bill as it is written now and this is what they found, 26 claims where found to be totally false, 18 were misleading or half truths and only four where true. The claims being made about a whole lot of misinformation being out there apparently are true and of those that I have personally read I came to the same conclusion they did. The News Hour last night also had a segment and looked at five claims and all were not true. WE are living amongst a lot of lairs and this is too important to not find out the truth for yourselves. You can see the details on all 48 at:

    http://factcheck.org/2009/08/t…..t-hr-3200/

    or you can go on the house site and read it yourself and you will also find this to be true.

  • Smilee

    Hear is another fact check that should be of real concern to all who value the truth. Please read

    http://factcheck.org/2009/08/rncs-bill-of-rights/

  • Bret

    Government health care is fundamentally wrong, and is a lie Satan implanted in mankind’s brain. Has it entered into the brains of these policymakers that some people DO NOT need to pay for a health insurance policy because they are financially free? We must not rely on government to solve our challenges but turn to God. Also, government bailing out every major business is equally dangerous.

    • Smilee

      Did he also plant this lie in your brain

  • Smilee

    Those who have an open mind and wish to hear another point of view visit these to sites or read Mahar’s book. Well worth the time, the more you know the more informed you are and the better decisions you can make. Limit yourself to one point of view and you will always find yourself in the dark. Take the leap

    Watch Money Driven Medicine documentary

    http://www.pbs.org/moyers/jour…..watch.html

    Maggie Mahar, author of “Money driven Medicine” see a blog on her here

    http://www.pbs.org/moyers/jour…..mahar.html

  • Dale

    How does NObama know what his NObamacare will do or not do? He, like congress, rammed it through without reading it?

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