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Obama Adviser: ‘The Average American’ Vote Not Based On Unemployment Numbers

July 8, 2011 by  

Obama Adviser: ‘The Average American’ Vote Not Based On Unemployment Numbers

One of President Barack Obama’s senior advisers, David Plouffe, said Wednesday that the state of unemployment will not affect the way individual Americans vote in 2012.

“The average American does not view the economy through the prism of GDP or unemployment rates or even monthly jobs numbers,” Plouffe, who ran Obama’s 2008 election, told Bloomberg. “People won’t vote based on the unemployment rate, they’re going to vote based on: ‘How do I feel about my own situation? Do I believe the president makes decisions based on me and my family?’”

Plouffe’s statement was highlighted by an article from The Hill, which, in an update, reported that “(t)he jobs report released on Friday showed the economy added only 18,000 jobs, much less than anticipated. The unemployment rate creeped up to 9.2 percent.”

“The remarks (by Plouffe) will likely irritate Democrats who think Obama and his political team have taken their eye off jobs,” the article read.

When asked about Plouffe’s statement at Friday’s press briefing, White House Press Secretary Jay Carney echoed the adviser’s statements, saying “most people do not sit around talking about GDP and unemployment… They cannot sit around analyzing the Wall Street Journal or Bloomberg.” Carney said that Americans “base” their feelings on their “own economic situation.”


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  • Raggs

    If the “AVERAGE” vote is not based on prosperity oblama sure has at least 70%… Is this what he thinks this country believes?… He thinks that everyone is better off living from government hand-outs and welfare…

    • granny mae


      Yes I do believe that is exactly what he thinks, if he thinks at all ! Obama has surounded himself with people that think just like he does and when they speak you have a clear vision of what they think and what they are likely to do next ! They think only about themselves and theink that others do too ! They are all idiots !

  • TIME

    Talk about being in Da~ Nile. LMAO…..

  • Palin12

    Where’s all the libtards hiding today? I guess they’re all out grieving for that poor illegal alien-murderer that was executed in Texas yesterday.

    • Raggs

      Bravo Texas!!!! :)
      I would comment if he had been a white guy oblama would have been there to watch but I’m not going to say that at this time.

      • Jana

        Ok, so we didn’t hear you say that.:D
        Yes hoorayy for Texas. I was glad Perry didn’t listen to Obama. Obama has had a deaf ear for us since he has been in office.
        This man was evil. He is now with the most fair judge of all. He needed to be sent to the FATHER before he did worse things and has to answer for those too.

        • Palin12

          Too bad they couldn’t take Manson, Ramirez, and Chapman with him!

      • granny mae

        Hurrah for Texas !

        Texas is the state in the union with the most sense and brains and guts ! Go Texas !

      • s c

        Raggs and Jana, thanks for bringing up the matter of the murderer in Texas who finally saw his constitutional rights exercised by the state. VIVA DUE PROCESS! Now, for the libtards, boneheads and pukes who love to talk about the “costs” of executing someone, that’s not exactly rocket science.
        If it wasn’t for lawyers who need to be digging ditches (instead of making constant appeals) and social justice muthas who should be cleaning toilets and incompetent judges, the “costs” of executions wouldn’t be so damned HIGH. Progressives never think about that. Most of the time, they don’t think about anything as that’s too much trouble for them.
        As Forrest Gump might say, ‘simple is as simple does,’ and man, are progressives SIMPLE.

        • Master Gunny

          During many years in service the Marine Corps I often saw the yo-yo phenomenon. It runs something like this; leaders slacked off on enforcing regulations or policy and consequently things got pretty loose.

          Then some kind of incident would occur to highlight just how far adrift things had gotten. Hence the second half of the yo-yo; the phase where leaders overreacted and tightened up so much that almost as much damage was done from the cure has been done by the disease.

          Societies function in much the same way and there is a day of reckoning coming. What is most disturbing is that thanks to political correctness our leaders fail to identify the causes of the drift and are too weak-knee’d to take action before the explosion occurs.

          Those who lived through the riots oof the ’60′s and 70′s recall the scenes of chaos as looters and rioters ran rampant through our cities. To forestall this from happening again our politicians created programs to empty our cities and make home ownership incredibly easy. We’re all aware of how that “do-gooder” legislation backfired.

          Now we have a much more dangerous situation than what we originally faced. Now we have a class of people who feel entitled to various government assistance programs and who will most likely become violent when the pipeline dries up. Witness the chaos in Greece and then square the the effect here in America.

          We let it happen so we’ve no one to blame but ourselves. When the cork pops government will have no choice but to clamp down hard to restore order. Are we headed for a new “dark age?” I once thought it impossible but it seems ever more likely that those who disrespect the law will make it inevitable.

    • Kinetic1

      Nah, I’m just pissed at those of you who are so gung-ho to see people killed that they ignore the high cost. It may feel good to see a murderer put to death (assuming that he was the guilty party, which in Texas is a pretty big assumption) but is it worth millions?

      • Jana

        I am sorry that it bothers you so much to see a murderer put to death. You said IF he was even guilty?

        He appologized to his family and to the girls family that he so brutally murdered.
        HUNTSVILLE — Strapped to the gurney in the death chamber Thursday, Humberto Leal Jr. used his last words to apologize to both his family and the family of the teen girl he killed.

        “I have hurt a lot of people,” Leal said. “Let this be final and be done. I take the full blame for this. I am sorry and forgive me, I am truly sorry.”

        The 38-year-old ended by saying, “One more thing: Viva Mexico. Viva Mexico.

        “Ready warden. Let’s get this show on the road.”

        He was pronounced dead at 6:21 p.m.

        The case of the Mexican national gained international attention because arresting authorities did not advise him of his right to contact his nation’s consulate. Failing to do so violated the United Nations’ Vienna Convention on Consular Relations, and Leal’s advocates said, puts Americans held for offenses in foreign countries at risk.

        Leal was sentenced to die for the May 1994 killing of Adria Sauceda, 16, whose nude body was found on a rural road near San Antonio. She had been bludgeoned with concrete.

        The Mexican government, former American diplomats and the Obama administration joined in calling for a stay in the case.

        Read more:

        Personally I find it odd that for 17 years he did not know that he had this right, as he did have lawyers and all of a sudden he needed a stay of execution? AND he had been in this country since he was 2 yrs. old and wouldn’t have moved back to Mexico as he only knew the U.S.

        Obama is a joke anyway. He turns his back on Texas, lets us know that he is NOT our President, snubs his nose at Perry then wants Texas to give him a 180 day stay so he won’t be executed at all. HA!.

        • Kinetic1

          Sorry, that was a generic “he”. Truth is I know very little about this case and I care even less. I was speaking about the big picture, the relative costs of life in prison as opposed to death row and the fact that Texas has a reputation for executing people who should not have been for any number of reasons. The fact that this guy was an admitted murderer doesn’t change the costs. I just don’t think it’s worth it just to say an eye for an eye.

          So thanks for the information, though I didn’t really bother to read it all. Again, sorry I wasn’t clear.

          • Jana

            Well, since you aren’t from Texas, then don’t sweat it.
            You make a snide remark saying “if he is guilty”., and I provided you with proof that you say you didn’t bother to read.
            This doesn’t make you sound too good.

          • Kinetic1

            Don’t take it personally. Like I said, I wasn’t speaking about HIM, so I read just enough of your post to understand that he was guilty. You got that across in the second sentence.

          • Jana

            OK, I am erasing taking it personal.

        • granny mae


          I agree with you 100%. This guy got what he deserved and it took way too long already, and as far as Obama is concerned, he doesn’t care for anyplace in the US that can and will call him as they see him. He needs to go back to his comunist friends in Chicago ! Maybe not! Maybe he should go to Texas so Bush could show him how things are done in Texas ! Kinetic 1, save the bleeding heart ritual for some one else! It is past time we got rid of all these magots ! Too bad Casey Anthony didn’t live in Texas, maybe the state there could have looked at the evidence and realize they should have an alturnative of life in prison for her instead of the death sentence that let her walk free ! Just another magot to walk the streets !

      • Palin12

        The reason for high costs of death penalty cases is because the trial lawyers get laws passed to benefit themselves with ongoing high attorney fees. Take out their profit motive and what have you got? So go ahead and be pissed, who cares? I for one am happy to see this scum’s execution and look forward to the execution of Major Nidal (Allahu Akbar!) Malik Hasan as well. I will have a bottle of Dom Perignon on hand when he meets his 72 virgins.

        • granny mae

          I am with you all the way ! I will have a bottle here too and we shall drink to it together !

          • Jana

            Palin 12 and granny mae,

            WOO HOO, I am with you all the way.

          • Palin12


  • Dan az

    Are their heads in the clouds or somewhere else as usual?The actual numbers are 21.5% counting the ones off the roles.Even with the bogus numbers there still higher than before the bail outs that was going to put us into a depression that we had never seen before.Wow I think he believes this BS.Oh BTW here are the true numbers and how they managed to change them,allot of good that did.

    • granny mae

      Dan az,

      Just more of government snow jobs ! They manipulate everything to make themselves look good and what gets me is they will stand before you and lie to your face even if they know you know it is a snow job !
      You can bet your bottom dollar the numbers are way higher than they say. Some people have been laid-off that could never draw unemployment and some drew all they could and now are on thier own with no job ,some have given up finding a job others are just now getting laid-off. It is not getting any better. In fact I just learned today that there have been shanty towns beginning to show up around the country. We haven’t had those since the 30′s. If people don’t start looking atthings the way they really are and not te way they want them to be they are going to be in a whole lot of trouble very soon.

  • JimH

    Hope & Change. Yes we can.(but didn’t) A good phrase isn’t as good as real results.
    Keep going in the wrong direction and expecting a different result.
    Just keep looking for a way to try to trick people into thinking things are good.(don’t piss down my back and tell me it’s raining)

    • granny mae


      It really worries me that people are still believing the lies and not getting prepared for tuff times ahead. In the near future now, I believe ! People wake up. It isn’t going to effect me if you don’t get prepared but it is going to effect you. What will it hurt if you put aside a food supply ! If you never need it great but you can always eat it. If you don’t have it and you end up needing it…..well so sorry ! Don’t be a knucklehead do something !

  • s c

    Probably, when Herr Obummer talks about ‘the average American voter,’ he’s talking about all those dead voters in the Chicago area. People with split personalities have nothing on that yahoo.
    He’s a progressive’s progressive. He doesn’t give a damn about families. He’s concerned with illegals and brainwashed voters. I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s a close relative of Ponzi himself.

    • Jana

      Obama is just plain wrong. Doesn’t he hear the rumblings of the people. We are not a happy people under his failed policies.

  • Thinking About

    Actually some voters vote on stories like WMD’s. Some vote with if we just lower the tax rate on “job creators” this would solve the problems but guess what the unemployment rate went up. Some voted on “jobs” which was going to be created by brained but the tan man is still tan. Think he might have been crying because he has the unemployment down so low.

    • JimH

      Thinking(?), Again, in English.
      What do WMD’s have to do with high unemployment rates?
      Do you believe over taxing “job creators” will create jobs?
      Calling yourself “Thinking About” is false advertising.
      SC, The population of Chicago cemetary’s Are growing every year. The problem will just get bigger.

      • Thinking About

        In plain English which you probably misunderstood voters votes on falsehoods. Did the bush tax cuts keep up with the rate he spent. If the tax cuts was going to create jobs and the unemployment went up after the tax cuts. How many years will it take to create the jobs. It is a policy which failed.

        • JimH

          Thinking(?), I undersood what you were trying to say dispite the poor way you wrote it and your bad examples.
          WMD’s weren’t an election issue. The Bush tax cuts were in place during the 04 election. not a voter issue.
          You failed to answer my question. Do you believe over taxing job creators will create more jobs?
          Over taxation, over regulation and high labor costs are what is sending company’s elsewhere.
          Tax cuts worked when JFK, Reagan, and Bush did them. In 06 the unemployment rate was 4.4%.Tax cuts.
          It’s easy to see that threatening Buisnesses with more taxation, massive government debt, uncontroled gov. spending and over regulation aren’t working.(10% unemployment)
          $.4% or 10% your choice.

          • Kinetic1

            The right loves to point to Kennedy’s tax cuts, but they fail to tell the whole story. First, the Kennedy plan called for closing loopholes that the upper brackets were using to avoid taxes. Second, the upper tax bracket (and the were 25 brackets as opposed to today’s 6) was 91%, which he reduced to 70%, twice the 35% they pay today. Third, this was designed to be a demand side stimulus, not the supply side that Reagan, Bush and today’s Republicans keep promoting. And finally, it just may be that it didn’t work.

            Arthur Laffer, while meeting with Dick Cheany, Donald Rumsfeld and deputy press secretary Grace-Marie Arnett was discussing President Ford’s tax increase. He argued that it was not in the nations best interest and attempted to illustrate the fact by drawing a curve on a napkin. This diagram of the cause and effect of taxes became known as the laffer curve, though Laffer attributes it to 14th century Muslim scholar Ibn Khaldun. The Laffer curve is often used and misused by Republicans to “prove” that tax cuts work, but Laffer himself, in reviewing the Kennedy Tax cuts questiond their effectiveness.

            “Laffer cites a Wall Street Journal article giving “anecdotal evidence” that tax revenue from the highest brackets increased every year from 1962 to 1965. However, Laffer admits that it appears taxpayers as a whole were on the wrong side of the “Laffer Curve,” overall revenue decreased.” SLATE June 16, 2011
            The article goes on to say;
            “Laffer then doubles down– he cites a study by Canto, Joines, and Webb using an ARIMA univariate time-series model that forecasts “what revenues would have been if the economy had continued to evolve along its normal path and the Kennedy tax cuts not been enacted.” The authors found that revenues fell by almost $30 billion less than Kennedy’s Treasury had projected: “These results… suggest that it is as likely that the federal tax cuts in 1962 and 1964 increased revenues as that they reduced them”

            And of course the cut’s also drove the deficit up. At the time it was only a small jump of 10 Billion, laughable by today’s standards. It was an amount that he felt could be brought back down as we became more prosperous, but it seems to have set the pace for future Presidents. Fast forward to President Reagan and his two tax cuts. There’s lot’s of noise about how his cuts increased the tax revenues, but at what cost? The deficit almost tripled under Reagan, from $99 billion to $255 billion and continued to rise until President Clinton raised taxes, increasing tax revenues by more than Reagan and reducing the debt to almost pre-Reagan levels, all while restoring a robust economy. Could it be that the Clinton tax rates, those in place after the tweeking of 1997 are the sweet spot of the Laffer curve?

          • Thinking About

            One does not have to look very far to see what has happened to unemployment since the Bush tax cuts and the extension. Unemployment has risen so the facts are the tax cuts did not work to create jobs in the US. I hope this answers your question in terms every one can understand. The facts does not reflect jobs have been created.

        • Jana

          The Bush Tax Cuts would have probably been fine if our economy would have continued to thrive. But WHY did the economy fail to thrive? Because bankers were FORCED to give loans to those they knew could NOT PAY THEM BACK. That screams failure right there.

          Thank you Ben Bernake and your fellow cohorts.

          • Kinetic1

            The Boston Globe, 2004
            “President Bush’s weekend campaign promise that he will push legislation allowing for no money down on some federally insured mortgages could cost taxpayers as much as $500 million over four years because of a higher rate of defaults, according to the Congressional Budget Office.”

            “A spokesman for the campaign of Senator John F. Kerry said the plan will help “relatively few families.” Kerry’s emphasis is on preserving affordable-housing programs that he says Bush has slashed.”

            YEAH BUSH!

          • Jana

            But he couldn’t get it passed because of Bernake and the rest of the Democrats. The stupid Republicans wouldn’t go against Bernake.
            Bush did try several different times.

          • Jana

            So much for Kerry!

          • Palin12

            John Kerry is a moron. Remember when he campaigned at the University of Michigan and told thousands of listeners in attendance “it’s great to be here in the Buckeye State”?

    • Raggs

      The “brown” ass is oblama.. the black ass is oblama. the AMERICAN ass pulls the weight.

    • Kinetic1

      Though his message was somewhat garbled, TA was clearly responding to the idea that the unemployment numbers are the most important issue on every person’s mind. And there’s no question that other issues are just as important if not more so. It all depends on your frame of mind. I have two people in my family who are out of work, and my mothers shop is suffering from lower sales, so unemployment is a big deal in our family.

      But as TA points out, during the last administration the unemployment rate had risen from 4.2 when Bush took office to around 5.5 – 6.0 by the 2004 election, yet as concerned as people were about this issue they chose to stay with Bush (by a questionably thin margin) because of the need to find those darn WMDs. Well, not everyone had that as their only issue. Some who were worried about unemployment and the rising debt believed the Republicans when they said cutting taxes would turn things around.

      Bottom line, some people will vote based on who they believe can increase employment and turn the economy around, while others who are doing ok may be more interested in tax cuts or health care, and still others will be blinded by party loyalty.

      Oh, and Raggs, your just a jerk.

      • JimH

        Kinetic1, I pray your family member can get through this and find work despite what the Obama admin. is trying to do. 4.4% in o6 ca ompared to 10% NOW, Iknow where I’ll stay on my opinion.
        The only reason Bush won in 04 is because Kerry is even a bigger loser than Bush.

        • Kinetic1

          Thanks for the prayers but also take a look up at my response to Jana.

          • JimH

            Kinetic1, What would you expect a Kerry spokesman to say?

          • granny mae

            I’m sure that jobs is going to be an important factor in this election, I only hope that they look at how much unemployement was caused by Obama himself ! Major layoffs. Oil drilling industry, Space industry, military support industry,(weapons) and on and on and on. In these fields alone we are talking massive layoffs in several states ! I will pray for your family als as I do my own. I have three out of work and another trying to get along with a minimum wage job and a child still in school. All of them are dependant on my husband and I and we are retired, on SS and living on our 401K that Pelosi wants to tax ! I pay out more than $600.00 just in meds. a month not including my husbands meds. I have to buy my grandson his glasses so he can see. He is legally blind without them. I too need them and am also legally blind, my husband has glasses too and has cataracts. These are only a part of problems being dealt with by this family and so I would say yes jobs are a big part of our concern but not the only one ! I am most concerned about loosing the freedom in this country that is being taken away one thing at a time and out of sight of the public eye ! For instance our right to bear arms. Obama isn’t taking away your right to have guns, he is just taking away the ammunition you use in that gun. Making your gun useless ! Your a fool if you allow this to happen. They will tell you it is to stop criminals from using guns to kill people. If some sick-O is going to kill someone he will do it with a knife or a plastic bag or a car or what ever he can get his hands on to do his deed! In the end it will be the criminals that still have guns not you ! And you will have lost your freedom. Since when does any president invite the United Nations in to the workings of our country and it’s judicial system ? You are seeing the beginnings of Sharia Law, in this country. So believe me when I say that when it comes to placing my vote for President it will not be because of jobs ! It will be because of freedom and keeping it. Any president will and can handle jobs as well if not better than Obama ! But only without Obama can we save this country ! Only by stopping the spending can we bring down the defecet. You can’t spend your way out of debt, any one in their right mind knows that so why doesn’t Obama ? Maybe he doesn’t really want to end the debt ! No, jobs are not my real priority !

  • pete

    I have to agree somewhat with Mr. Plouffe, persons look at their own money situation. If they are convinced that Prez Obama can improve their cash flow, then they will vote for Obama. For example, most public union workers will probably vote for Prez Obama, or just government workers in general (for obvious reasons – government is expanding ..).

    The phony unemployment rate of 9.2% may help voters in the private sector to vote for Prez Obama. The private sector workforce can easily lie to themselves, just like they did in 2008.

    What I’m hearing on the street right now is – most moderate to conservative voters, who admit voting for Prez Obama in 2008 – are not going to vote for him a second time (in 2012)….

    I heard Prez Obama’s re-election fund will raise one billion dollars. So the RePUBS are saying right now “OH SH*T” and treading lightly not to upset the voters. The Demoncrats will be agitating the populace with the aid of the Mainstream Media. The MSM knows who helps pays the bills, their source of bed and butter – Prez Obama and the demoncrats ..

    One man or woman, among the Republicans, can make all the difference right now. The two party monopoly will break soon. But who will be the stronger party ? Will the RePUBS blow it (like they usually do) or will the DEMONCRATS look more absurd, trying to make us believe their delusions ? In the 2016 Pez elections I think we will see 3rd parties becoming stronger …

  • Cawmun Cents

    Sweating Bullets Lyrics
    Artist(Band):Megadeth Review The Song (5) Print the Lyrics

    This sums up Obamas new campaign rather well dont you think?

    Hello me … Meet the real me
    And my misfits way of life
    A dark black past is my
    Most valued possession
    Hindsight is always 20-20
    But looking back it’s still a bit fuzzy
    Speak of mutually assured destruction?
    Nice story … Tell it to Reader’s Digest!!!

    Feeling paranoid
    True enemy or false friend?
    Anxiety’s attacking me, and
    My air is getting thin
    I’m in trouble for the things
    I haven’t got to yet
    I’m chomping at the bit and my
    Palms are getting wet, sweating bullets

    Hello me … It’s me again
    You can subdue, but never tame me
    It gives me a migraine headache
    Thinking down to your level
    Yea, just keep on thinking it’s my fault
    And stay an inch or two outta kicking distance
    Mankind has got to know
    His limitations

    Feeling claustrophobic
    Like the walls are closing in
    Blood stains on my hands and
    I don’t know where I’ve been
    I’m in trouble for the things
    I haven’t got to yet
    I’m sharpening the axe, and my
    Palms are getting wet, sweating bullets

    Well, me … It’s nice talking to myself
    A credit to dementia
    Some day you too will know my pain
    And smile its blacktooth grin
    If the war inside my head
    Won’t take a day off I’ll be dead
    My icy fingers claw your back
    Here I come again

    Feeling paranoid
    True enemy or false friend?
    Anxiety’s attacking me, and
    And my air is getting thin
    Once you committed me
    Now you’ve acquitted me
    Claiming validity
    For your stupidity
    I’m chomping at the bit
    I’m sharpening the axe
    Here I come again, whoa!
    Sweating bullets

  • Earl, QUEENS, NY

    So unemployment is back up to 9.2%, eh?? LOL!! That should be no surprise. It’s a miracle that it’s not higher than 9.2%!! More than 2 years after the stimulus/porkulus bill passed, and unemployment has been well above what was supposed to be a peak of 8%. I’m now hearing that BHO and his democraps also said that with the (failed pork-barrel) stimulus, unemployment would be down to about 6% by now. LOL!! If I could orate to the nation, I’d say (without a teleprompter): “Had you not made ‘One Big Awful Mistake America’ on 11/4/2008, unemployment probably would’ve peaked at 8% in early 2009, and by now would be down to 6% or lower!!” ….Likewise, the GOP is in control of the House, as well as spending. Since the stimulus/porkulus bill is a proven, why don’t they take it out of the baseline of all future budgets?? Sadly, the GOP didn’t have the majority in the House or enough votes to stop the porkulus 2 years ago. Now they do. So they should see to it that it’s cut out, and reduce future deficits by over $800 billion per year.

    • Kinetic1

      It’s always the Democrat’s fault, right? President Reagan’s tax cuts would have reduced the deficit if not for the overspending Democratic congress. How many times have I heard that? Why don’t we ever hear about the fact that the budgets approved by Congress were consistently lower than those purposed by the White House?

      Blaming one party over the other is a loosing game. Both the house and the Senate were controlled by the Democrats during the Ford and Carter administration and the national debt wavered between $84 and $56 billion the whole time. Do they get credit for keeping spending down? They remained in control during the Reagan and Bush I administrations where they are blamed for the debt, even though their budgets were, as I noted lower than requested by the President. The Democrats continued to control Congress into the Clinton administration where the deficit dropped, even before the Republicans took over. The Republicans get all the credit from conservatives who hated Clinton, but they act as if the Democrats were back once the Bush II administration came in. It was under Republican rule of both houses of Congress that the deficit more than quadrupled! Blame it all on 9/11 or Bush’s 2 unfunded wars, but as you all like to point out, Congress holds the purse strings.

      IN the end, both parties have their ups and downs. Cutting taxes and raising taxes can both help or hurt depending on how and when it’s done. And the Laffer curve, often used to prove that tax cuts work is a bell curve in the end. There comes a point when cuts begin to do more harm than good, and I believe we have found that point.

      • JimH

        Kinet1, The theory of tax cuts is sound, If followed by budget cuts.
        The problem is no one wants to do part 2.
        Tax cuts with budget increases is just plain irresponsable and unsustanable.
        Increasing taxes to keep up with reckless spending won’t work. The job creators will just hang on to “their” money and not take the risks with their proffits being eaten up in taxes.
        Placing blame on one party or another won’t fix the problem. No problem was solved by finding who is at fault. It is done by finding a solution to the problem.
        Not everything being paid for by taxpayers is essential. The cuts can be made.
        Polititions say what we want to hear at election time, so it is difficult to know who to vote for. They will claim to be fiscally responsable, but continue to spend it like there is no end to it.
        The trick is to find who is really serious about cutting and willing to stick to it. We also need to weed out the ones who only talk the talk.

        • Jana

          Jim H,

          • granny mae

            I agree !

        • Kinetic1

          No question, tax cuts alone are not the answer, but people don’t want to give up programs and politicians want to get reelected, so on and on it goes.

          Now let’s get back to the Laffer curve. Basically the curve suggests that on one side people won’t see the point in working hard if all their effort just goes to the government coffers. After a time of paying 90% a man may just decide to reduce his output until he falls into a lower bracket, or he’ll do everything he can to hide his income. On the other side, people may work to become as rich as they can and will report it all since they will pay so little in taxes, but the amount they pay will not be enough to sustain basic government services. So the question becomes what is a reasonable tax to pay and what level of government do we require?

          I’ve heard a lot of people in the TEA Party calling for the smallest government possible, but I’ve also heard them yelling “keep your government hands off my medicare!” In other words, what is essential depends on who you’re speaking with. None of this would be so important if we were not in the position we are now. We’re in deep with massive government spending and a decade of war. So what did we do the last time it was this bad? How did we get out of the mess following WWII?

          During WWII, unlike what we have seen over the last decade Americans were asked to sacrifice for their nation. The cost of war is great, and only with concerted effort can we expect to come through in good shape. So taxes were high, goods were rationed and people were asked to invest in their country with bonds. After the war taxes were cut (though to nothing near the low levels we have today) and industry began to grow as returning soldiers began families and a more affluent America demanded new and better goods.

          Compare that to today. We weren’t asked to sacrifice, we were told to shop. We didn’t fund the wars with higher taxes or war bonds, instead taxes were cut and the war was paid for off the books. We encouraged our factories to move off shore and Americans put price above loyalty to their nation. We have become fat and greedy. Instead of placing tariffs on goods that come from nations with poor factory conditions that result in pollution and poorly paid workers, we allow them to undercut American workers and poison our children. Conservatives complain about the poor corporations and the burdensome regulations that prevent them from being competitive, but they forget that the air and water are cleaner and workers are healthier and safer then they were just a few decades ago. Is it worth reducing our expectations and our wages to the levels of China just to pay less in taxes? Will cutting the tax rates on corporations that are already making record profits entice them to return to our shores? Or will greed, the same greed that makes American corporations move off shore keep them there. And what of these partnerships with China’s government? What deals are we signing with the Devil?

          “Companies are made to take on Chinese partners, to transfer sensitive proprietary technology, and to shift their production and R&D to China. In exchange, they get government subsidies and docile workers. Eventually, much of their production is displaced by their Chinese partners, but in the meantime they make a lot of money.”

          They make a lot of money, we get to buy lots and lots of cheep products and we sell our nation down the river. So go ahead, stand up for the rights of American businesses to pay poverty wages to Chinese workers, sell their cheep products at Walmart and then reap the tax benefits of being an “American company.” Cry about their “high tax rates” while they play the system and pay nothing (and sometimes get a refund to boot!) Greed has taken the place of national pride in corporate America and conservatives seem to be fine with that, as long as they get their piece. And as for those who are “serious about cutting and willing to stick to it”, ask Paul Ryan about his $350.00 a bottle wine. It must be nice to spend the day talking about cutting Social Security and then sit down guilt free while sipping $700 dollars worth of wine.

          • JimH

            Kinetic1, The small buisness owner is the one who is doing the most hiring right now. The Bush tax breaks were extended and will someday expire. These people who take the risk to go into buisess for them selves and their employees need some certainy in that in the near future the tax rates won’t go out of control and pull the rug out from under them. That is why some are still holding off hiring new help. Even if the income tax rates stay the same there is still the threat of imposing a new tax. Some are uncertain how Obamacare is going to effect them in the future.
            That is a few of the reasons tax cuts aren’t working as well as it could. Plus some of the reasons already stated.
            I don’t think a $350 bottle of wine is setting a good example, unless he paid for it himself. I don’t think it is a deal breaker though.
            Raising taxes, for sure isn’t going to stimulate job growth.
            A better buisness environment oversea’s is what caused the bigger buisness’s to leave. Can we lure them back? Don’t know. Can goverment policy encourage or dicourage small buisness growth? Definatly.
            Not placing blame, just pointing out this current administation’s policies aren’t the solution we are looking for. The results show this.
            A more certain and buisness friendly environment needs to be created.
            Tax cuts with(this is important) significant budget cuts are a viable and positive solution. The theory is sound.
            There is a certain amount of revenue brought in (Tax) and what is borrowed. A debt ceiling was set, for a good reason. By the midle of May, not even half way through the year, the debt ceiling was reached. Not just the revenue spent, the debt ceiling reached. The “solution”? Raise the debt ceiling.
            This is just reckless and irresponsable.
            The more of their own money a buisness gets to keep it can reinvest in the buisness. The result more buisness, more profit, more people hired. The gov. may not get as much of a %, but there is more profit to tax. The extra employees who have a job now are paying tax and not collecting unemployment.(a tax cost) Less % but more revenue. It CAN work, given a fair chance.
            You talk about greed. It just isn’t big industry. Big gov. who are spending us into oblivion is also a very real form of greed. What is the solution for that?

          • Jana

            Jim H,
            YOU make so much sense.

          • Kinetic1

            I don’t disagree with every point you have made, but the information we receive about small business and their hiring are skewed by the American definition of “small business”. For heavens sake, even the Koch brother’s empire is considered “small business.”
            “SBA defines a small business concern as one that is independently owned and operated, is organized for profit, and is not dominant in its field. Depending on the industry, size standard eligibility is based on the average number of employees for the preceding twelve months or on sales volume averaged over a three-year period. ”
            If your manufacturing company has below 1500 employees, you may be a small business. The company that makes Tobasco sauce is a “small business.” PriceWaterhouseCoopers, one of our nation’s largest accounting firms is a “small business.” H & R Block has 1,500,000 “Small Business” clients, but according to their representative the extension of the Bush Tax Cuts for the rich benefited less than one half of one percent of those clients. When John Boehner was presented with the fact that only 3% of America’s “small business” would be affected by the expiration of the Bush tax cuts, all he could say was;
            “Well, it may be three percent, but it’s half of ‘Small Business’ income. Because, obviously, the top three percent have half of the gross income for those companies that we would term ‘Small Businesses.’”

            We are bring played by these very large and very wealthy “small businesses” And we are being played by companies like GE, who may be “taxed” at the top rate of 35%, but who pay nothing and still receive $3.2 Billion back in tax “benefits” on top of the $5.1 Billion in profits they earned in America. I don’t know what they do for America, but it must be something for us to pay them a %60 bonus from our tax dollars.

            “A better buisness (sic) environment oversea’s (sic) is what caused the bigger buisness’s (sic) to leave.”
            Just how much better can we make it here before we return to the sweat shops of the early 19th century?

          • JimH

            Kinetic1, The idea is to get people back to work.
            You don’t do it by punishing the job creators.
            Whether it’s Koch Bros. or Bobs fireworks stand, they provide employment.
            Do you understand that more profit at even a lower% brings in more tax revinue. An employed person contributes more than an unemployed one.
            How do you make the leap from small buisness hiring more people because of a tax break to 19th century sweatshops?
            If people can get past the petty class envy thing, maybe more could get back to work.

          • Kinetic1

            If the stats were showing profits being turned into new jobs here in the states I’d be right there with you. Instead we are seeing more and more off shore investment. Again, if American companies are making record profits here in the U.S., then what reason do they have for closing down and moving off shore except for greed? And if the only way to keep them is to lower taxes ( though as I pointed out business is paying, on average less than a third of the 35% rate we are supposed to drop,) and reduce regulations on their businesses so that we are at a competitive level with China or India, then where will we be? The idea that business will always do what’s best for the customer because it is what’s best for business has been proven wrong time after time, and the employees and the customers are always the ones paying the highest price. It’s not a matter of class envy, but rather an observation of the damage done to this Nation by greed.

        • Kinetic1

          I was thinking about our discussion, my last reply and a question I left unanswered and I wanted to kind of wrap this up.

          First, I wasn’t suggesting that tax cuts lead to sweat shops, but that reducing regulations to become more competitive could lead there. We have a higher standard of living and higher expectations when it comes to safety, working conditions and pollution. I would rather see us place import tariffs on imports that come from sub standard companies than allow our nation to fall back.

          That having been said, I understand that you don’t feel that I can see the point of lower taxes leading to more jobs, higher production and profits all leading to bigger revenues at lower rates. I, on the other hand don’t believe that you see my point that many American companies are already paying far less than the rate proscribed, and that while earning record profits they are still not hiring. I just want to say that I do understand, and in a perfect world where American companies feel some loyalty to our nation and it’s people, and our people are willing to pay more to support their products and neighbors I would endorse your vision. Unfortunately I have watched this dynamic fade over the decades and I’m not certain that we will ever see it again. From corporation to customers, everything seems to be about getting as much as you can for as little as you can, damn the consequences. It may sound cynical, but I just don’t see National unity wining out over greed.

          • JimH

            k1, So the people who would make an honest effort to expand their buisness shouldn’t get the chance to because some may just keep the profit.
            Sounds petty to me.
            Jobs won’t be created with your plan.
            Penalizing the good people because some aren’t as ethical WON’T work.
            Remember, finding solutions.

      • granny mae

        One sure way to stop the blame game for both parties is mandatory balanced budget and a flat tax. You either live within your budget or you are out. Start doing away with welfare and make it mandatory that every child must graduate high school. If you don’t do it within the regular school system then you will do it in a lock down situation till you got it. Kids that quit school become a burden on society and there is no need for it. Young girls get pregnant and quit school and go on welfare. Right then they need to be placed in classes for a diploma and if they don’t attend they don’t get assistance and then it needs to be made understood that this assistance only continues for one year after the child is born and there will be no assistance for any other children ! Also there is to be a paternity suite for the father. If he hasn’t graduated then he goes into classes for diploma and if he refuses he can go to jail. Enough of all these young kids having babies and going their own way while the rest of society takes care of them financially for the rest of their lives through welfare programs and medicaid ! Just think of how much money we could put somewhere else if we didn’t have to support illigitimat children and lazy uneducated child parents ! It is not the duty of this country to take care of its people financially or to see to it that everyone has medical care or owns a house or has a job. It is the duty of this country to see to it that everyone has the opportunity to do that for themselves ! That each of us can make a life for ourselves that lets us develope to our best potential! I don’t want someone to take care of me I can take care of myself so long as my government doesn’t take everything I have. It is fine to help people get back on their feet after a major problem but it is wrong to take care of them forever after. That is what family is for and that is where the church comes in. People help people. It is not the duty of this country to support every other country in the world either. For us to be sending money to our enemys is rediculous. Who in their right mind does such a stupid thing as that? I don’t care what party you belong to that is stupid. All these countries that are our middle east enemys need to start using their oil money to take care of their own people and build their own schools and what ever. The guy that started that crap should be dug up and shot and reburied ! Another thing is this; this is America and we speak english here we have American schools and not muslim schools that teach children to hate the country they live in and to believe it is alright to kill these people that are not muslim ! If that is how you want your children to be taught then you must go back to where you came from. If you are here illegaly and you or your kids go to demonstrating in the streets or in school or anywhere for that matter and you desicrate our flag, your happy a$$ needs go go right back where you came from right after you serve time in one of our prisons where I might add you will be repatreated! No more screwing around with disrespect from anyone ! Until Mexico can clean up their country and their boarders we need to close down that boarder and shoot to kill ! It is time to close the highway of drugs and guns and make it safe for the people that have homes and live near the boarder. They are tax payers and deserve to be protected always ! I am tired of party’s and the blame game everyone is guilty and needs to own up to it. Time to clean house from the top down this time and get someone in there that is willing to serve the people and if they don’t then they go out the next time !



    “Oh my God 8.9%, 9.O%, 9.1%, 9.2%!!! What if I’m next???”


  • James

    we are doomed if he does win again!

    By the way, Chris Matthews is devastated by the release of Obama’s birth certificate. He was convinced Obama was born in a manger in Bethlehem.

    • granny mae

      As far as I’m concerned this birth certificate is just as phoney as the first one. Why would anyone openly claim a birth certificate is his and then a couple years later admit he lied and now this is his real one? Liar, liar, liar. This one is a lie too !


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