Comments Subscribe to Personal Liberty News Feed Subscribe to Personal Liberty
 

Obama Administration Supports Bill To Repeal DOMA

July 22, 2011 by  

The Obama Administration is reportedly supporting a repeal of DOMA.President Barack Obama’s Administration recently indicated that it would support efforts in Congress to repeal the 1996 Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA), which defines marriage as between a man and a woman.

Senator Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) and Representative Jerrold Nadler (D-N.Y.) introduced the Respect for Marriage Act, which White House spokesman Jay Carney said would be supported by the Administration, reports The Washington Post.

Earlier this year, United States Attorney General Eric Holder was instructed by the Administration to stop defending DOMA in court.

The Alliance Defense Fund will reportedly testify before the Senate in defense of DOMA. Daniel Blomberg, a lawyer for the organization, said that the Administration’s decision to support Feinstein’s bill was hypocritical.

“Our perspective is that it’s not only incorrect, but deeply disappointing, to have a politician claim support for marriage between one man and one woman on the campaign trail, then actively undermine that once in office,” he told the newspaper. “We are confident Congress will make the right decision here.”

The Washington Times reports that six States — with the most recent being New York — and Washington, D.C., have legalized same-sex marriages.

Special To Personal Liberty

You Sound Off! is written by our readers and appears the last Wednesday of each month. If you would like to submit an article or letter to the editor for consideration for You Sound Off!, send it to yousoundoff@personalliberty.com by the Friday before the last Wednesday of the month. To be considered, a submission should be 750 words or less and must include the writer's name, address and a telephone number. Only the writer's name will be published. Anonymous submissions will not be considered.

Facebook Conversations

Join the Discussion:
View Comments to “Obama Administration Supports Bill To Repeal DOMA”

Comment Policy: We encourage an open discussion with a wide range of viewpoints, even extreme ones, but we will not tolerate racism, profanity or slanderous comments toward the author(s) or comment participants. Make your case passionately, but civilly. Please don't stoop to name calling. We use filters for spam protection. If your comment does not appear, it is likely because it violates the above policy or contains links or language typical of spam. We reserve the right to remove comments at our discretion.

Is there news related to personal liberty happening in your area? Contact us at newstips@personalliberty.com

  • Doc Sarvis

    The right decision is to repeal the DOMA. Marriage should be between to loving adults and full rights of marriage should finally be granted to same sex couples. This site is called Personal Liberty this issue is all about Personal Liberty.

    • http://naver samurai

      Yes doc, they can marry anyone they want as long as it is one of the opposite sex. Gays are unnatural in their actions and an abomination in the eyes of God. They don’t deserve any recognition. Remember butthead, marriage is between a man and a woman, not two freaks of nature. 하나님 하고 나라를 위해서! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

      • Karolyn

        Samurai – Why do you need to call people names? Can’t you respect other people’s views? Oh, sorry, I guess you do not have that ability and can’t help it. Why do you care so much if gay people get married? They’re not bothering you.

        • Crystal

          They’re bothering our children in school, by having over-the-top liberal legislatures pass their agenda on our kids. When parents say “No” they mean “No.”

          • eyeswideopen

            Crystal, you can’t catch the gay! Are you saying that parents aren’t rasing their children right and any influence from anything the parents don’t agree with is going to be absorbed by the kids? Better put those kids in a bubble, as there are a lot of people out there in the world who drink, cuss, smoke (both kinds) have affairs, drink and drive, etc. who are a terrible example for kids. You have a phobia against anyone who isn’t just like you.

          • http://naver samurai

            Eyes, you lie too much. We both know that if you introduce this type of education to children in elementary school, they’ll learn. Children at that age, their brains are like sponges and easily absorb any information you tell them. That’s why there are so many children who smoke, drink, so drugs, and this is no different! Gay nonsense has no business in our schools and the government isn’t the one that can say they can get married. You’re a joke eyes! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            Hey samurai, how the heck are you?

            Why don’t you just prey to that brutal god you worship and make him protect your kids from gayness? Oops, I’ll bet that didn’t work for Dick Chaney’s daughter of Newt’s sister. Oh well. Back to your name calling.

            Rob

        • The Bucko

          It bothers (really saddens) me when I see people totally reject what God has stated. It does bother me when a ‘girl’ comes into the restroom and uses a urinal. O.K. it really is a ‘man’ who looks like a girl but it does bother me.

          • Robert Smith

            Why bucko? Are you attracted to them?

            Rob

      • Rita Gruener

        I am Roman Catholic, 61 years old, married to my husband for 39 years.
        I am for marriage for all of God’s children! (That’s not to say that it is such a wonderful right with a divorce rate of over 50% and the pain it brings to so many.)
        I am an advocate for treating everybody with respect!
        I am for equal right and treatment under the law!
        And I am for being civil and kind!!!!

        • granny mae

          Rita Gruener,

          Your statement just proved that you are not a Catholic ! This act is against our religion period. You know what the church teaches and if you can’t follow the church instructions on these matters maybe you should find another religion ! You can’t claim to be what you don’t believe so don’t hide behind the Catholic church as though it makes it all right for you to hold these ideas !

          • Doc Sarvis

            You might want to have this discussion with several Catholic priests.

          • Jay

            granny mae, the commie brigade that frequents this sight will say, and claim to be anything, even Christian, if necessary, in order to lend legitimacy to their arguments. You are correct, the person claiming to be Catholic, is certainly not Catholic. However, it is also possible that she may be a Heretic!!!

          • JUKEBOX

            All of this discussion just proves how close we are to the end times of our once great nation. Everything GOOD is now EVIL, and everything EVIL is now GOOD. The debauchary of the Roman and Greek Empires led to their ultimate demise. Even the Muslims recognize how wrong the ways of these so called “SENSITIVE, LOVING” people are. Some of the meanest, most viscious people I have known are homosexuals.

          • home boy

            give her a break. she is only doing what the catholic church has done. they don’t use the hole bible 100%. they only take what they like so they can hold you captive and then you never learn the truth about the bible

          • CJM

            grannymae and jukebox: How do you know the writer isn’t a Catholic? Just because her ideas do not match yours is no reason to call her a liar. And jukebox, the muslim/islamic believers stone anyone they perceive as homosexual to death, but they also take your sons to satisfy the lust of the pedophiles who dominate those countries. So, are you saying the middle eastern ‘religion’ is good? If they invade this nation and force shar’ia laws onto us, you will have to give them your sons, who will be treated as young maidens…that’s the islam/muslim way!

          • Dan az

            CJM
            I would love to see them take my two sons :) :)I just petty the poor sucker that had to deal with them. :)Don’t think thats going to happen anytime soon.But it would be fun to watch :) :) :)

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Doc,
            I don’t have to discuss it with a priest, minister, reverand, or any other religeous leader. The only leader in my life is Jesus Christ, my savior. He is the living son of God and his father says that homosexuality is a sin! I know, we don’t follow all things in the bible, but stoning wicked women has been reversed by the son, so we don’t follow that! God gives us the ability to decern between right and wrong and just because it makes you unpopular does not make the decision wrong! I will continue to believe as I do and I will answer to him for my mistakes or sins, not you for me!

          • http://naver samurai

            HB, the person is no Christian. By the post you’ve stated, neither are you. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

            P.S. Let someone try those things with any of my sons. They’ll give them the proper response, their shoe up the person’s arse!

        • Crystal

          You just proved you are not Catholic.

          • Karolyn

            Being Catholic has nothing to do with the rules the church imposes. Just because somebody might be excommunicated does not mean they are not a Catholic in their heart. I was born and raised Catholic; I have always thought of it as something I just was rather than a church I was a member of. It’s like Jews who don’t follow the Torah. They still consider themselves Jews. I guess Rita just better watch out for the Catholic Police to come and revoke her license to be a Catholic.

          • Thor

            Sorry, Karolyn, Crystal is correct in informing both you and Rita that you are no longer Catholic. Nomenclature has specific rules…at least for the practically minded and dialectically savvy. If you no longer believe the edicts of the Holy See, you are no longer Catholic. It does not mean you cannot be Catholic again at some future point; but it is requisite that you have and practice the tenets of the Catechism to be Catholic…neither of you do. Perhaps you’d like to peruse CC2357 for verification. Do the words “intrinsically disordered’ ring a bell? If you are not who you say you are, please have the decency to coin a new term for it. This is not said to be rude or hurtful…and, of course all true Catholics pray every Mass for your return to full communion with the Church.

          • Karolyn

            Thor – I know full well what you’re talking about. However, I believe that what is in a person’s heart is more important than what is in a church’s rules.

          • Dan az

            Karolyn
            If they didnt follow their bible how would it not make them jews?Sould they be arabs?Turks?you get the picture then what?They are jews because they are jewish Right?What else could they be? :)

        • http://liberty Tony

          To Rita :
          Right on!! I’m a Lutheran Protestant myself. Also, i’m not into the gay lifestyle. However, people’s constitutional rights needs to be respected, as long as it’s with two consenting adults, who aren’t coercing nor forcing their lifestyle on others. Thus again, right on!!

          • Daylo

            Today is a very sad day to read that a Lutheran Protestant has become so secular he/she can only see the constitution of the United States and not his/her God and what He says.

            Evidently, your “religion” does not allow you to read the Bible, because God called this behavior an abomination in both the Old and New Testament.

            Perhaps you need to rethink your position separate from the “constitution”, because in doing so your blatant approval “Also, i’m not into the gay lifestyle. However, people’s constitutional rights needs to be respected, as long as it’s with two consenting adults, who aren’t coercing nor forcing their lifestyle on others. Thus again, right on!!” of this can lead to another person spending eternity in hell, that is if you still believe there is a hell.

            The bible says there is a hell, and I believe that as well too.

            If you believe the Bible, what will you say to God when HE asks you why you made this statement on a public forum where you know “gays” are posting and will see your approval?

          • Daylo

            Response to Tony,

            Who is making a judgement? The bibles says, paraphrasing, “you will know them by their fruits”. Exactly what are their fruits, Tony? HIV and AIDS for one. But if you have more fruits that would be satisfying to our Lord, please post them here.

            I have in no way, shape or form distorted the word of God.

            Please give the EXACT information about this “captain of the Roman guard, who was known as a notorious sodomite”. I would definitely appreciate the exact book and other information referenced here about the Roman guard. If they knew he was a notorious sodomite, what was his name?

            Are you further telling me that the entire book of Romans in the NEW TESTAMENT is to be discounted as well?

            No one to my knowlege is turning these people away from God. That is what that reference is about, but I don’t believe it had anything to do with the Roman guard being a sodomite. Unclean was used as a reference to anyone who was not a Jew. But to lie to homosexuals and tell them what they are doing is okay, is purely a mark of ignorance in God’s word. We will ALL answer for our words and actions, and I believe, even our votes. I believe that if we vote for someone we know to be evil, i.e. someone who is okay with the killing of innocent babies via abortion, we will pay for that vote. Voting for them is the exact same thing as agreeing with their platform of abortion. HOw can anyone defend this vote?

          • Karolyn

            Fruits are any accomplishments. Many of the most creative people ever born were gay. Their fruits were many and lauded.

          • Daylo

            Response to Karolyn:

            Karolyn says:
            July 22, 2011 at 3:14 pm
            Fruits are any accomplishments. Many of the most creative people ever born were gay. Their fruits were many and lauded.

            No, the fruits of which I speak have nothing to do with material accomplishments or being lauded for producing those fruits, or even being creative.

            The fruits the Bible speaks of are different. They are the fruits of the spirit. We are to know people by their fruits.

            1.Love
            2.Joy
            3.Peace
            4.Longsuffering
            5.Kindness
            6.Goodness
            7.Faithfulness
            8.Gentleness
            9.Self-control

            These are the fruits of which I am talking…

          • Karolyn

            Well, Daylo, homosexuals have those fruits too, just like everybody else.

          • http://naver samurai

            Wrong again Tony! Remember that the gays are a sexual behavior. OMG! Behavior IS NOT COVERED UNDER THE CONSTITUTION! Please get your facts stright before you post. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

        • Daylo

          Rita:

          Do you ever read your Bible? Because you will find references to this type of behavior in both the Old and New Testament. God calls it an abomination. Just being a “Roman Catholic”, being heterosexual and being married for 39 years does not give anyone the authority to tell another that what they are doing is okay with them or God, especially if you are a Bible-believing Christian.

          Just being kind will not get anyone into heaven. The Bible says, you (all of us) must be born again.

          • http://whiteterrorists Tony

            Response to Daylo:
            Sir, yes i do believe in the Bible, in Heaven, and Hell. Since, you want to talk about the Bible. It, aslo, states “Judge not or yee shall be judged. God is the only sole judge of man.” In addition, you
            are distorting the words of the lord, thus beware. It’s true in Leviticus chapter 9 verse 22, A Man laying with another man as with a
            woman and vice-versa is an abomination. But in the new testament Jesus
            met with the captain of the Roman guard, who was known as a notorious
            sodomite. When his disciples question this, Jesus retorted” All who come to my father’s table is welcomed”. So, this shows your distortions. Thanks!!

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Tony,
            you better read your Bible a little closer!!! Look up Leviticus chapter 9 verse 22 and you will see what I mean!!! The research will do you good!

          • http://naver samurai

            Then why are you defending the gays and attacking those who son’t believe in their immoral lifestyle, Tony? You can’t say you are a Christian and live in rebellion to the Bible. Maybe you ought to read Romans 1 verses 26 – 32 a little closer. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

        • http://naver samurai

          If you were a Catholic or a Christian, you would be anti-gay agenda. If you believe in their ways, fine. But don’t say you believe in their ways and call yourself a Christian. It is inconceiveable to call yourself a Christian, but live in rebellion to the Bible. Some food for thought. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Karolyn

            Well, Samurai, there are gay priests in the Episcopal Church; and I personally know very well a conservative, Christian gay man.

          • http://naver samurai

            Karolyn, you can’t be gay and a Christian. They are bound for hades. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

        • eyeswideopen

          Rita, hands clapping, you are a Christian. God Bless you.

          • http://naver samurai

            You are no Christian eyes, so how would you know? Lies, lies, and more lies! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            samurai, what gives you the right to define christanity for others?

            Your bible babble is simply YOUR interpritation, not any facts.

            Rob

      • Kinetic1

        samurai,
        You are quick to argue for an American’s right to own however many guns they want. You’re quick to argue that property owners should have the right to do as they please with their land. You’ll argue all day for the rights of smokers and free speech, so why is it so hard for you to accept the rights of homosexuals? No one is asking your church to accept gay marriage. No one is going to force you to attend a gay wedding. No one is going to spend your hard earned money on a gay honeymoon, so what is the problem?

        • GregS

          Kinetic1 says:

          “No one is asking your church to accept gay marriage.”

          Wrong! That is simply not true! In Illinois, a new civil unions law goes into effect June 1. The state will stop funding Catholic Charities if they refuse to grant applications to gay couples who want to adopt children from that organization.

          If DOMA is repealed, it will have HUGE implications for the Catholic Church nationwide. With regard to adoption, the Catholic Church will be FORCED to accept gay marriage. Other issues are sure to crop up as well.

          • Kinetic1

            GregS,
            This law does not state that all churches must perform or accept Gay marriages, but that they must recognize the legality of such marriages if they want to receive government funds. If your church want’s to remain “pure” and true to their tenants they can remain totally separated from the government. It’s no different than saying that a church will lose it’s tax exempt status if they become too politically involved.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            kinetic,
            so the rights YOU speak of are more important than my rights of free speech, my rights of freedom of religeon, and even more importantly, the rights of the people that depend on those charities to survive???

          • GregS

            Kinetic1, “accept[ing] Gay marriages” is EXACTLY the same as “recognize[ing] the legality” of gay marriages. There is NO difference. Furthermore, not only does this law affect the funding of these agencies, but it also paves the way for discrimination lawsuits to be filed against these agencies by gay couples, regardless of whether or not any funding is received from the state.

            Additionally, the lack of funds and fear of countless lawsuits will force the Church to shut down its adoption agencies. In Illinois alone, this represents about 20 percent of all such services in the state. It will cause a huge void and displace about 3000 children. In addition, many employees will lose their jobs as these adoption and foster care facilities are phased out. This is bad for both the children involved, as well as for the communities.

            So you see, Kenetic1, this is NOT just a matter of the Church “remain[ing] totally separated from the government,” as you put it, nor is it a matter of the Church “becom[ing] too politically involved.” The fact is, the government wants to cram the homosexual mentality down the throats of those who want no part of it, at the expense thousands of innocent children and the communities involved.

          • Robert Smith

            Greg says: ” The state will stop funding Catholic Charities…”

            Why is the state funding your religious organization? I don’t want any of my tax money going there regardless of what they believe. I don’t want my tax money going to ANY religious organization.

            Rob

          • GregS

            Robert, the state is NOT funding a religious organization. It’s the SERVICES (in this case, foster care and adoption services) performed by the religious organization, which are being funded. The beneficiaries of those SERVICES are the adoptive children who come from ALL walks of life.

            If YOU don’t want your tax dollars going toward these services, just because they are provided by religious organizations, then that’s YOUR problem, and it’s another issue altogether.

            All I’m saying is that a HUGE void will be created, if these services are discontinued, and thousands of adoptive children will be left without care.

            My question to you, Robert, is this: Since you are so critical of the services being provided, just because it’s being done by a religious organization, are you at least willing to provide any constructive solution to the problems that would be caused if these services should be discontinued??? I think NOT!

        • http://naver samurai

          Thank Gos for that K1. What I have against them is they are unnatural and not what God has ordained (sp). What about when they have a fairy parade and you think that’s OK, but let some Christians sit off to the side and silently pray then your kind call the police and have the Christians arrested for what? We are also tired of hearing about their immoral Sodom and Gomorrah lifestyle as being a right. I challenge you to show me anywhere in the Constitution that deals with behavior. IT ISN’T THERE! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            Quit making stuff up samurai. For example: ” but let some Christians sit off to the side and silently pray then your kind call the police and have the Christians arrested for what?”

            Arrest warrants are public informaiton. Show us ONE case where such has happened.

            BTW, if your god is so powerful about his wishes why can’t he hear you in his house of worship? I see your preying not as a religious act but one of a preditory nature upon some “other” to support your horrific group think. Otherwise where you prey wouldn’t matter.

            Rob

    • http://none john

      Marriage is always between a man and a woman not man on man or woman and woman. This goes to prove how this countries values have gone to hell.God created a woman for man and that is how it is. What are you going to do about when you meet your maker and he asks wh dat you have done in your life to teach his ways? It is a sin what you are doing, and I for one are getting tired of having to give you special treatment just because you want to lay with your same sex partner. You will burn in HELL.

      • Karolyn

        In your opinion!

        • Song

          Karolyn I have noticed that you are like a little yapping dog: yap, yap “in your opinion”, yap, yap, “and how do you know that?” yap, yap, “in your opinion” as if you ever offer anything more than “your opinion!”

          • granny mae

            Amen !

          • Karolyn

            Well, that’s all anyone ever offers is his opinion! If I said too much, I just might blow your mind!

          • Palin12

            Song, don’t pay any attention to Karolyn. She is just a lazy welfare bum that surfs the web all day and is not a productive member of society.

          • Karolyn

            Palin – You know crap about me! How dare you judge me! I’ve never been on welfare! Why is it that you conservatives like o just dismiss what you don’t understand or agree with. Don’t you ever stop and think at all about anything other than what everybody else like you thinks?

          • Palin12

            G.A.Y.= Got AIDS Yet?

          • http://naver samurai

            Very funny Palin 12! Good post and true in your description Song. Keep up the good fight, fellow patriots! 하나님 하고 나라를 위해서! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Dan az

            OK Karolyn
            I know that your not married and I don’t care why.But Why not let everyone here know that you still like men or you can come out here in front of God and everyone and admit that your gay!Or is it that your By?

          • Karolyn

            Dan, you make me laugh! :-) I love men and have been married. I have no problem with men who can think beyond their noses and respect women and don’t want to control them. I have seen way too much of that!

          • http://?? Joe H.

            karolyn,
            go ahead, blow my mind!! Like you did backing up your statement that people are born gay!! Nothing but opinion and mindless drivel!! If you are the student you say you are, do some research and PROVE A FEW OF YOUR STATEMENTS!!

          • http://naver samurai

            Karolyn was married? I really feel sorry for the poor soul that made that mistake. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            Have you seen the news samurai?

            Check out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCzbNkyXO50

            BTW, the church acts as if kids are born christian. Why is that any more real than being born gay?

            Rob

        • JUKEBOX

          Karolyn, I see that your heart is hardened to the word of God, so I invite you to take the chance to go against His word, so you will ha ve plenty of company with those loving souls of Bill Maher, Kathy Griffith, Jeneane Garafalo, and Rosie O’Donnell.

          • Crystal

            I wouldn’t wish Rosie O’Donnell or Bill Maher on anyone. That’s a fate worst than Hell.

          • Karolyn

            Juke – My heart is anything but hardened! I believe in the TRUTH as I perceive it. That Truth includes the fact that the Bible is nothing but a collection of stories that was manipulated by man to gain control of others. The God (universal intelligence) that I believe in loves us all equally, is not a punishing God (Why would he/it/she punish his creations for being what he made them to be?) is not a jealous God (Why should the almighty have need of jealousy? Is that not a human characteristic?) I could point you to a couple of really good books, but most Christians are too afraid to even entertain the thought that there might be more to the great mystery of life.

          • Karolyn

            Juke – I have no special affinity for those mentioned people. Garofalo is an OK actress. Kathy Griffith is a jerk. I could care less about Maher or O’Donnell.

      • Doc Sarvis

        john
        I guess the term marriage can mean different things but legal marriage between same sex couples is legal in ten countries.
        As for your assertion that I will burn in hell, well we are all sinners. And for the record – I am heterosexual.

        • Song

          Doc: are you saying that everything that is legal…is right?

          • Doc Sarvis

            “Right” in whose eyes are you asking about?

          • JUKEBOX

            Professor Alan Dershowitz said the other day on a TV interview, “What is legal, is not always morally right”. This is a liberal Jew, and I never thought I would hear those words from his mouth, but I agree with him.

          • Robert Smith

            Here is an example of “christian” morality from: http://wps.ablongman.com/wps/media/objects/2661/2725147/documents/doc_d066.html

            “A Catechism for Slaves (1854)
            “Frederick Douglass’s Paper,” June 2, 1854, from The Southern Episcopalian (Charleston, S.C., April, 1854).”

            That’s while slavery was still legal.

            For some reason I just can’t alighn myself with that kind of sick religious mentality and the brutal god that allows it.

            Rob

        • granny mae

          Doc Sarvis,

          Ten other countries huh? Well so is prostitution but that doesn’t make it right ! Marriage has always been a religious rite. From the beginning it was sanctioned by God for the procreation of life . There is no chance of that with same sex unions. If they want to be together so be it but don’t try to make it out to be right in the eyes of God because it isn’t. To the homosexual it is a fantasy just like their sordid lives! They know something is wrong with them and instead of being celebet they pretend there is nothing wrong and resort to all kinds of disgusting acts and displays and then want the normal person to accept them ! As though marriage would bring some kind of ligitiment normalcy to their lives in the eyes of all those that see them and know them. Not here !I had to put up with these people and their over bearing ways and displays and filthy talk for years when I worked . It was disgusting then and it is disgusting now ! Once they get legally married then they want to adopt children and guess what they teach them ? All the hideous perverted ways to live as they have lived all their lives ! If it is that important to them then let them move to one of your so called other countries and live happily ever after !

          • Doc Sarvis

            granny mae
            This discussion is about whether legal rights not about whether or not it is right in the eyes of God.
            You seem to believe that homosexuals teach their adopted (or otherwise) children to be homosexuals. Does that mean the majority of homosexuals that we have today were taught to be homosexuals by their heterosexual parents?
            As for procreation, we don’t seem to have a problem doing that, we don’t need more precreators.
            Throughout our history BOTH heterosexuals and homosexuals have fought and died for our country, saved lives in emergencies and in the medical field, and contributed to our society in countless ways. You ignore all of that when you want to push them out of our great country.

          • Crystal

            Doc Sarvis, name a homosexual who has died for this country? What sex act were they performing at the time they died for the country?

          • Karolyn

            Crystal! You have got to be kidding! You actually believe that no gay soldiers have died for this country? Wow!

          • Robert Smith

            Hey Chrystol, here you go from ABC news: http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/03/death-of-a-gay.html

            Not only that, he was a hero according to the Washington Post: “The Washington Post reported at the time that Rogers’ commanding officer wrote to his family: “As God would have it, he shielded two men who probably would have been killed if Alan had not been there.”

            Gay and a hero. My my… Blows your theory.

            Rob

          • Robert Smith

            There toes granny mae with her version of morality again: ” Well so is prostitution but that doesn’t make it right !”

            Not necessarily, but why are you messing in the lives of consenting adults? Isn’t America about freedom? Obviously you NEVER have to pay for sex if you don’t want to but I’ve seen so many far off extreme right wingers who use their personalities for birth control that I can understand their need.

            Rob

        • Crystal

          Other countries. Not this country. If you don’t like the laws of this country, you can always leave.

          • Robert Smith

            Hey Crystal,

            You posted: “If you don’t like the laws of this country, you can always leave.”

            By by! Medical pot has been voted in BY THE PEOPLE and gay marriage is a fact in half a dozen states. I’ll bet you can afford a one way ticket to Mexico or you can go to the north.

            Rob

        • Dan az

          Doc
          Has anyone here heard one truth out of docs mouth?
          And for the record – I am heterosexual. I rest my case!

          • Karolyn

            Everything Doc speaks is true!

          • http://?? Joe H.

            karolyn,
            Except his moniker, persuasion, and 99.999999999999% of what comes out of his computer that he enters!!

          • http://naver samurai

            Karolyn, how can someone that is so far out in left field be able to speak the truth? FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

      • Rita Gruener

        Wrong! Read your bible and read history!

        • hicusdicus

          Bible history??? You mean Bible mythology.

          • JUKEBOX

            Are you ignorant enough to take the chance? Would you be willing to walk through a mine field, and trust your mythology that a percentage of those mines are defective?

          • home boy

            you got a book that’s better?

          • http://naver samurai

            Another Bible and Christian basher has entered the site. Ignore the lost soul and he’ll go away! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

      • Kinetic1

        john,
        I respect your beliefs and would fight to protect your right to hold to those beliefs, but I can not accept the premise that your religious beliefs should determine the rights of others. As I said to samurai, no one is going to force your church to accept or perform gay marriages. You can look away as you pass other churches and your church leaders can preach about the sin of homosexuality, but in this nation religion does not get to have the last word on what is legal and what is not.

        • GregS

          Kinetic1 says:

          “As I said to samurai, no one is going to force your church to accept…gay marriages.”

          Wrong! See my response to your previous comment above.

          • Robert Smith

            Rights and equality can’t be voted away, Greg.

            Rob

          • GregS

            Robert, we were NOT talking about “vot[ing] away” “rights and equality.” We were talking about the state forcing the Church to accept gay marriages. Go back and read the thread. As usual, you’re not following along with what is being discussed.

    • Song

      They do have personal liberty Doc. That doesn’t mean you get to choose the consequences of your choices. Gotta love how everyone talks about homosexuality as being the epitome of “loving relationships” and “morality”. Ever been to Vegas? Frisco? LMAO

      • Doc Sarvis

        As far as loving relationships go heterosexuals are no different from homosexuals.

        • Song

          In my experience then Doc., that would mean highly dysfunctional. But the larger point still remains: Just because we are free to choose, does not mean that we are free to choose the consequences.

          • hicusdicus

            Doc Sarvus sounds a bit poofy. Maybe he has not yet found the door knob on the closet.

          • Karolyn

            “Just because we are free to choose does not mean we are free to choose the consequences.”

            What? Why not?

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Gee, karolyn, I’m gonna rob you and then walk away free and get to keep what I steal, if I can choose the consequences!!!! Sound good?????

        • JUKEBOX

          You’re right, they are as mean and hateful as most liberals are.

          • Karolyn

            OMG, Jukebox! Do you read the comments here from your Christian conservative friends? The venom just drips from their words.

        • Crystal

          Yes, heterosexuals are completely different from homosexuals. Outside of two arms and two legs, we’re not the same at all.

          • Karolyn

            Geez Crystal! We are all HUMAN BEINGS!! We all love, laugh, cry, eat, sleep, MAKE LOVE, etc. You sound like you think gays and lesbians are less than human.

          • Robert Smith

            awww Crystal, gays are different from you? Blacks are different, orientals are different, different, different, different…

            Looks to me like it’s the christians who are different and the rest of us just don’t care about it.

            Rob

      • granny mae

        Song,
        Yes I have seen the goings on in Frisco and it is unbelievable. They dress in clown like costumes and in all manner of undress and parade the streets on floats and bring their small children along for the ride ! These children have the worst of enviornments to grow up in and live in. I a heterosexual were to do these things in front of their children in their own home and the authorities found out they would soon be loosing their children. I have listened to these sick people talk when working with them, and the things they talk about would sing your hair. The things they do and the chances they take are just unbelievable ! You are hearing all this and your thinking why? Why in the name of God would you do such things? And they do them over and over then wonder why they get Aids ! No these are some very sick people. Now there are some people that are gender disabled and they should be helped as much as possible but the gays as a whole forget it !

        • CJM

          grannymae: Come on–heterosexual people also have parades, dress-up in costumes, talk about their sexual prowess (which would also singe your hair), are promiscuous, AND they get HIV/AIDs. As a heterosexual person, I highly dislike those who denigrate human sexuality, which, in and of itself, is a beautiful experience. It is the bastardization of the human experience that is wrong–not the everyday activities that you imply as belonging to a warped side of the world.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            CJM,
            do some research into where the first case of aids in the US came from!!! It came from a gay stuard that flew into the US and when the sores became evident and he lost his employment, visited the gay bathhouses at night as they couldn’t see the sores in the dark! He spread it to a great many people before he died!! As for the heteroes that get it, a good number of them, children encluded got it from blood transfusions from tainted blood! Children that were “bleeders” and the only clotting factor in their bodies comes from transfused blood!! May that flight attendant rot in hell a dozen times for what he did!!

          • Robert Smith

            Joe says: “May that flight attendant rot in hell a dozen times for what he did!!”

            More right wing misinformation. The real story from http://www.avert.org/origin-aids-hiv.htm is: “While Gaetan Dugas was a real person who did eventually die of AIDS, the Patient Zero story was not much more than myth and scaremongering. HIV in the US was to a large degree initially spread by gay men, but this occurred on a huge scale over many years, probably a long time before Dugas even began to travel.”

            The ones I blame are those who denied condoms to those who might have been helped and those who oppose needle exchange programs. The PROOF is that both of these methods are highly effective in reducing HIV yet were denied because of right wing posturing.

            Those are the ones who should rot in thier own hell.

            Rob

        • Karolyn

          Very narrow view. Hey, look at Mardi Gras, which is primarily heterosexuals. You are speaking like someone who has never really had any kind of personal relationship with a gay or lesbian person.

          • Song

            And you would be wrong as usual Karolyn…yap, yap, yap

        • Robert Smith

          granny mae says: “They dress in clown like costumes ”

          Sounds to me like you wouldn’t like Shriners either. You know, the guys who have a bunch of orthopedic and burn centers? Hospitals that don’t take a dime of tax money yet offer treatment free to kids with the only qualification for the kid is to be in need of treatment.

          If you don’t want to watch a gay parade why do you go? Seems to me you are LOOKING for something to hate.

          Rob

          • libertytrain

            Mr. Smith never any useful information to contribute. Just mindless attacks. How pathetic.

    • hicusdicus

      Your right about personnel rights. I don’t like people, men or women but I have a really handsome goat who I would like to spend the rest of my life with. Do you think it would be OK if we got married?

      • JUKEBOX

        I believe you could get the ACLU to file a suit for you to get that right.

        • http://?? Joe H.

          JUKEBOX,
          but only if the goat consented!!! HaHaHa!!!

      • Robert Smith

        The goar is probibly under age and unable to legally consent.

        Besides, crazy slippery slope arguments are usually absolutely false. Has anyone petitioned to marry such as the right wing presumes will occur? Gay marriage has been legal for several years, yet it hasn’t happened.

        Please quit lying about it.

        Rob

    • Crystal

      Personal liberty, not mental illness.

    • Crystal

      Liberty, not mental illnesses.

    • Dee

      BS

    • Palin12

      Hey Doc,
      Wasn’t it Bill Clinton that signed DOMA into law?

  • Tim

    If your marriage needs to be defended by the US Government, then it’s a pretty safe bet that you don’t have much of a marriage to begin with.

    • Doc Sarvis

      The unions of these people don’t need any defense. They should just get the same rights that other married couples have since they too are two loving adults in a relationship committed to each other for life.

      • Warrior

        And besides “tax treatment” what other “rights” does your guvmint confer on these people?

        • Doc Sarvis

          There are several things having to do with raising their children and being able to visit your spouse in a hospital when they are very ill, having your spouse on your health insurance policy instead of having to purchase two policies. I know there are several more.

          • Crystal

            Hospital visits should not only apply to homosexuals. There are a great number of people who have the same problem. If you’re the main caretaker of your neighbor, but not a family member, you can’t get in to see them. This is a hospital problem, not a homosexual problem.

          • CJM

            Doc S: If you and any of your friends had signed the consent forms that allowed sharing of information, you would have had your wish..but that’s just cumbersome for you and yours because you have to ASK for it! You know, spouses do not automatically get information from certain accounts UNLESS they ASK for the consent form in order to share the information. Hospitals do not bar partners, marital or not, from visiting–they do bar them from obtaining medical data and are especially strict about it under the HIPPA Law; you do know what that is, correct. Again, it is a matter of the patient requesting and signing a consent form to share informatin. As for the tax breaks, well, same gender couples do not deserve this–sorry. As for raising their children in a loving environment, no one is stopping those who have children under their care from doing so (and in some areas, same gender couples adopt children without a problem). However, when you or one of your male friends give birth to a baby, let us know of that historical event so all can celebrate the reality that same gender couples are exactly like opposite gender couples. That’s the problem with the LGBT/PRIDE agendas–they want to be treated exactly like heterosexuals, which they are not and, therefore, are not entitled to the exact same treatment of the heterosexual world.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Doc,
            It was reported just the other day, that quite a few of the insurance companies will NOT COVER even legal gay marriages!! Now what, Bubba??

        • JUKEBOX

          Food Stamps, Public Housing, SS Benefits, and a myriad of other entitlement programs, including abortions if they made the mistake of switching sides.

      • hicusdicus

        The unions of these people don’t need any defense. They would would be doing a lot of defending if they were not protected by law.

        • http://naver samurai

          Sorry, but their lifestyle isn’t protected by law. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            How’s that transsubstancian canabalism thing going for you samurai?

            I think that should be illegal.

            Rob

  • Herb Werner

    Since we are all so unhappy with the surversive in the white house ,why don’t we start a drive for his impeachment? How many impeachable offenses has he already committed?

    • Warrior

      Because the gatekeeper is named “dingy harry”.

    • JUKEBOX

      I don’t believe bi-sexuality is an impeachable offense.

    • CJM

      Herb: There are many petitions out there for the impeachment of the subversive in the WH awaiting your signature. Do a search, find them, and sign them. You can also contact your legistors in Washington and demand his impeachment; you can call your governor and State legislators to recall the wayward congressmen/women….and I’ll bet you haven’t done any of these things. Those of us who have would appreciate it if you would do the same. Thank you in advance.

  • C130 Gunship

    I can see the NYTs headline after O’Biboy loses in 2012 and divorces Michelle……”Obama and Larry Sinclair announce their engagement.” “Barney Frank to be Best Punk, Rahm Emanuel to give Larry away, mayor Bloomturd to officiate the ceremony.” Couple will honeymoon at O’Biboy’s favorite all male bath house club where he and Rahm are lifetime members – Man’s Country club in $hitcago’s Boystown district located at 5015 N. Clark St. where the he and Larry first met before O’Biboy illegally became president. Quoting O’Biboy, [Offensive words removed] When Larry was asked how he felt about the developments, Larry broke out in tears and stated “If O’Biboy didn’t push the reversal of DOMA none of this would’ve been possible. Because of him, the American Dream will is still alive because without the DOMA reversal I’d still be the same ole’ gay crack whore I was before” “Boy George, please hand me a tissue.”

    Libtards heads starting exploding….3….2….1

    • Doc Sarvis

      Still waiting for some meaningful dialog. Guess you can’t contribute any of that.

      • Song

        Meaningful dialogue Doc? No, what you are waiting for is acceptance of a lifestyle CHOICE that most people find perverse and unnatural then lam-bast anyone who doesn’t agree with you or karolyn for that matter, while trying to force your perceived moral dictates on everyone else. You can stop with all the “loving relationships” and “pity the homosexual” rhetoric. Maybe I spent too much time in Frisco or have worked too long among the same people you seek to support. The majority are anything but! They are vile, perverse and mostly “in your face” and will earn no respect or pity from me.

        • hicusdicus

          Amen Mr. Song. The one thing a homosexual is not is GAY. Their life focuses on the groin area and they try to justify it every time they get a chance to take a breath.

        • Crystal

          Here! Here!

        • granny mae

          I spent 11 years putting up with that discust and I certainly agree with you !

      • JUKEBOX

        Does the truth hurt that bad, Doc?

    • CJM

      C130: Loved your satire…too bad doc s doesn’t understand the humor.

      • Kinetic1

        CJM,
        Oh I think most of us understood C130′s “humor”, it’s just that many of us have outgrown such immature drivel. I’m sure it went over great in Jr. High.

        • http://?? Joe H.

          Which should ALMOST bring it down to a LIBTURDS level!!

  • Harv

    GOD designed man and woman specifcially to be joined together to pro-create. This is called “marriage”. A male pipe fitting and female pipe fitting can be “married” to form a joint. No two of the same can do that. Marrying two men or woman is like getting a PHD by cheating, you may have the title but you aren’t really a Dr. You think you’re something you’re not. You go through life living a delusion. If you choose or feel compelled to live an abberent lifestyle, that is between you and GOD. I go along with granting certain privileges to such unions if neccessary, but to call it “marriage” is folly and self decieving. You may be “legally” married, but actually and morally you’re not

    • JUKEBOX

      I thought you were talking about Obama when you talked about the PHD.

    • Crystal

      You hit it on the nail. There is one woman in particular who came with a friend of mine I invited to our barbeque, she’s a Ph.D. (piled high and deeper is the proper term for this abbreviation) over at U.C.S.D., and until we found out she was a Ph.D. she had everyone at the party calling her doctor. We are still laughing and that was last year.

    • Karolyn

      “You may be “legally” married, but actually and morally you’re not”

      In YOUR belief.

  • HHH

    To John and Harv: First we should understand that there is no god in the legal system of this country, therefore, opinions about god’s law is mute. Second, the concept of a heaven or a hell is couched in a belief system interpreted by the religous. Third, telling someone they are going to burn in hell is irrational, since there is no such place except in the minds of the mentally retarded. Fourth, marriage is a legal concept, defining property rights and other contractual issues. It is not a religous construct!

    • Song

      I was with you HHH until you descended to calling those who believe in a heaven and hell “mentally retarded”. I believe you are quite right in your assertion of marriage as a legal concept in modern day that is, but you are quite mistaken if you think for a minute that this country was not founded with god and his commandments, in mind; and you, like karolyn, have absolutely no proof whatsoever of what will happen after you die, so to call people with religious beliefs mentally retarded is quite off the mark, don’t you think? Their beliefs are just as valid as yours.

      • Doc Sarvis

        Song,
        I suppose that since you say that this country was founded with god and his commandments you must think that God (I’ll use the capital G) is okay with slavery.

        • Crystal

          The definition of biblical slavery and the Atlantic slave trade are two different things. I noticed this argument is tried over and over again, but it still doesn’t gel.

        • Song

          That’s just too funny Doc. Nowhere and at no time does god sanction slavery but that does not remove the fact that our founders were well versed in the bible and subscribed to many of the principles found in scripture and the ten commandments. That Mr. Doc is a FACT not conjecture which you and Karolyn are all too fond of.

      • hicusdicus

        You are right. They are not mentally retarded they are emotionally retarded. Religion is dangerous and has caused more harm than it has ever caused good. Religion will continue till the sun turns off because the emotionally retard have to have it so they can cope with life.

        • Crystal

          In order to be emotionally or mentally retarded you need to practice unnatural acts. The actual physical practice is what stimulates the emotional practice.

          • Karolyn

            Crystal – “In order to be emotionally or mentally retarded you need to practice unnatural acts.”

            What are you taling about? Emotionally or mentally “retarded” (disabled) people do not necessarily pracice unnatural acts.

      • Karolyn

        I agree.

    • TML

      “Fourth, marriage is a legal concept, defining property rights and other contractual issues. It is not a religous construct!”

      I disagree with your last statement. Once two people enter into an agreement (marriage), I believe it does indeed become a legal concept, but the concept of marriage itself (especially when it comes to who can and who can’t) in undoubtedly religious in nature.

      • hicusdicus

        A Marriage contract is also necessary if one plans to collect child support or alimony.

        • TML

          True… I just don’t think the government should be telling anyone who can, or who can not, enter into a marriage contract, so long as they are two consenting adults.

          • Crystal

            I’m glad you used the word “two.” What’s to stop the number in a marriage from expanding if this is passed? Or maybe at least one person is an adult? You’re looking down the throat of a slippery slope.

          • TML

            I’m glad you used the word “two.” What’s to stop the number in a marriage from expanding if this is passed? Or maybe at least one person is an adult? You’re looking down the throat of a slippery slope.

            I don’t think so, because “two consenting adults” is a reasonably defensible moral outside the sphere of religions conviction.

          • Karolyn

            Why should anyone care if two or three or more women want to marry one man? (or vice versa – however, I can’t imagine that happening). As long as they are consenting adults and do not have a problem with the concept, there should be no stopping them. It’s called freedom!

          • Cawmun Cents

            Yeah anyone who knows anything makes marriage about government.Only government is worthy of overseeing marriage.Are you people for real,or just government educated?-CC.

          • TML

            “Why should anyone care if two or three or more women want to marry one man? (or vice versa – however, I can’t imagine that happening). As long as they are consenting adults and do not have a problem with the concept, there should be no stopping them. It’s called freedom!”

            True… specifying “two” consenting adults is rather restrictive without just cause. I was thinking in terms of multiple marriage ‘contracts’, but me thinks that might actually be worse.

            Freedom is about trusting individuals to make better choices than the government can’t make for us

      • Karolyn

        I disagree, I believe it is more spiritual, because a marriage consists of two individuals who want to confirm their love and commit to one another, and that does not necessarily have anything to do with religion.

        • TML

          I think I know what you mean when you say ‘religion’, but to me spiritualism is religious if ceremonies are performed

          • Karolyn

            Yes. Ceremony is one of the bases for a religion to be defined as a religion.

          • granny mae

            In some religious beliefs, Mariage is more than just a contract or a ceramony it is a sacrement. A covenant pledged between a man and woman and God ! A sacred promise to all involved and there is no divorce ! How could anyone stand before God in a holy and spiritual setting and make an oath to him when that couple is breaking the very laws of God in just being there in that setting in the first place. You can’t thumb your nose at God and think he is going to sanction your union when he has told you in the Bible that your union is an abomination to him !

          • TML

            @granny mae – That’s fine for you to believe that, but you should not have the right to impose that religious belief onto others. If people of the same-sex want to get married under their own religious conviction, we have no right to say otherwise.

    • JUKEBOX

      I suppose you are one of the gnostics that wear blinders when you look over the doors of the Supreme Court or other government buildings that have any carving of GOD on them. Do you turn your eyes away when you spend your U.S. currency, or do you just use foreign currency?

    • CJM

      HHH: FYI, marriage IS a religious construct along with inheritance rights. However, social values changed throughout the centuries and man built newer laws of inheritance around it. The only thing a government can do is provide a civil ceremony to the couple; the government cannot really perform a marriage rite because the government is not a religion. Marriage = religion; Civil union = secular.

      • HHH

        Sorry, but you are incorrect. The union called marriage is a civil and lawful contract under all states in this country. Within this contract, certain rights and priviledges are accorded. The fact that a preacher, minister, priest, or any other “holy man/woman” performs the ceremony does not necessarily make the union any more or less acceptable to the state. The certificate that you get called “marriage cdrtificate” is certified by the state, not a religious holy person. The marriage is a marriage, which is more than a “civil union”. And everyone else espousing the bible as the “word of god” needs to understand that the bible is NOT a very good book to be used as a tool of guidance to live a moral, ethical, and fullfilling life….. it was inspired by no one other than voices in the heads of uneducated, but influential, goat herders and tribe leaders. At best they may have been very good at voo-doo , which apparently still exists today in the form of “evangelical preachers ‘, spewing “their interpretation” of the “word of god” and “what is in the holy book of scripture” It seems that there are folks on this thread that want to force their beliefs onto everyone, and are intollerant of opposing views, and opposing belief systems. I, personally will use reason as my basis of understanding the world around me, and will live by the laws developed by the men and women who are charged with such a civil task. There is no “gods law” in the statutes to be followed by our citizinery. A little tolerance on everyones part will go a long way to understanding the principles of the constitution, and the laws enacted for us all.

        • Jay

          HHH: And everyone else espousing the bible as the “word of god” needs to understand that the bible is NOT a very good book to be used as a tool of guidance to live a moral, ethical, and fullfilling life…..

          Jay: Could the same be said of every other book ever written?

          HHH: it was inspired by no one other than voices in the heads of uneducated, but influential, goat herders and tribe leaders. At best they may have been very good at voo-doo , which apparently still exists today in the form of “evangelical preachers ‘, spewing “their interpretation” of the “word of god” and “what is in the holy book of scripture”

          Jay: Your ignorance, HHH, is staggering! By today’s standards, the people you mentioned, were by far, better educated than the best of scholars today. I will, however, agree, that there is a considerable craziness coming from mainstream Christianity, but not for reason(s) you think. Religious organizations have been infiltrated by atheist/communist/socialist mongrels, who realize, that the only way to convert a nation to their ideology, is by the take-over, and the commandeering of the nation’s moral, and sea-worthy vessel!

          HHH:It seems that there are folks on this thread that want to force their beliefs onto everyone, and are intollerant of opposing views, and opposing belief systems.

          Jay: The same accusation could be levelled at you, HHH! For you insist, without providing concrete proof, that all theists are wrong, yet all atheists are right! That, is your belief system/religion.

          HHH: I, personally will use reason as my basis of understanding the world around me,

          Jay: What will your reference be by which you will apply reason to understand the world around you?

          HHH:and will live by the laws developed by the men and women who are charged with such a civil task.

          Jay: All laws? What about laws your reason rejects?

          HHH: There is no “gods law” in the statutes to be followed by our citizenry.

          Jay: If that is so, then explain the origin of our legal system, and why it is structured according to the laws written in the old testament, and why does it still uphold the laws written in it?

          HHH: A little tolerance on everyones part will go a long way to understanding the principles of the constitution, and the laws enacted for us all.

          Jay: What do you mean by tolerance? Tolerant of what? Tolerant of whom? As for understanding the principles of the constitution, the constitution is clearly intolerant of any, and all oppression, not just religious!

          Btw HHH, based on your statements you post, you appear to be no smarter than a fifth grader!

          • Kinetic1

            Jay,
            So how far down tis road do we want to go? Technically the word marriage was not in use until well into the 13th century. Note that a literal translation of the Bible will not contain the word marriage. Further, prior to the mid 16th century the act of marriage was a simple statement of union and commitment between two people. No representative of the church was required.

            So, who is right here? Based on the history of the word HHH is correct that it is not exclusively religious. On the other hand, from your viewpoint of modern religion marriage may be a union that only a church can perform. And so we return to the point I have made over and over again; Those of us who accept the broader interpretation of the word will recognize the legality and spirituality of same sex marriages and those of you who believe only in “traditional” marriage will not. There is no reason that our Federal Government should be involved in deciding which is “right”.

          • Jay

            Kinetic1, my statement to HHH was an apologetic response to his viscous and unsubstantiated attack on the usefulness, and merits of Bible. My statement did not deal with the biblical view, or the biblical definition of marriage. But since you brought it up.

            Genesis 2:23–24 (ESV)
            23 Then the man said, “This at last is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.” 24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.

            Granted, the above statement does not use the specific word, “Marriage”, however, there can be no question that it describes, rather profoundly, what marriage is! Is it possible for homosexuals to become, “one flesh” in the same sense? I don’t think so. I have no issue with homosexuals getting married. Let them. Do I approve of same-sex marriage? No! Would I ever attend a same-sex marriage ceremony? Never! So what? Btw, not all who disapprove of same-sex marriage are “Conservative Christians.” Surprised? But whether one approves or disapproves of same-sex-marriage, is not the issue, since all have the right to voice their opinion, rather, the issue seems to be coerced tolerance, as those who do voice their disapproval are labeled bigots, intolerant and blinded by their bias. As well, they are accused of interfering with the process, which, by the way, no one can stop, since all mechanisms to facilitate the eventual outcome are well in place. Btw, kudos to the homosexual activist’s who have worked tirelessly under “cloak and dagger” to ensure their success. On the other hand, those who approve are labelled tolerant, openminded, sophisticated, and all-embracing. Who here is the bigot, biased, and intolerant? Well, that would depend on which side of the fence one is standing, doesn’t it?

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Actually isn the early 1800s a marriage was not recognized unless it was performed by a “preacher”!!!!

  • Yeshua friend

    All the strengths of men, and our most diligent efforts will not save the U.S.A. in the absence of YHVH protective blessings. If we allow ourselves to regress into becoming a Nation of unchecked corruption and immorality, then we will be left to the destruction of Satan’s viscous unrestrained wrath. Jer.2:19. & Eze.22:14-15.

    Shalom!

  • TML

    I actually support the repeal of DOMA because central government should not allow, nor disallow, marriage between two individual, consenting, adults. Government should have no part in it.

    Since ‘marriage’ seems to me to fall squarely under a “religious” construction, even the State should have no say so under the 1st Amendment of the U.S. Constitution.

    • Crystal

      The 1st Amendment doesn’t favor one religion over the other. At the time when that was written they were speaking of different facets of Christianity, because that is what the nation builders were.

    • hicusdicus

      TML, I think you are missing something here. Marriage is how two people become legal relatives so they can fight over property rights.

      • TML

        I’m merely trying to make the distinction between the religious aspect of marriage, and the legal aspects of marriage.

        • CJM

          TML: You are correct; marriage is a religious ceremony, it has no Constitutional protection and does not need it. As for law, the right to inherit property rests with the individual leaving the legacy. Laws may protect the right of widows/widowers and the children, but anything else the person may wish to leave to another individual or organization is their preference. Furthermore, the right to access personal informtion by one, other thatn the spouse, has been available for years. All the same gender couples had to do was to sign a consent form that allowed the information to be shared. In some instances (such as Social Security and bank accounts), that form had to be signed by the recipient of those servics; otherwise, not even the spouse could obtain or correct informtion within the record. These laws existed when DOMA was put in place–so DOMA was entirely unneccessary.

          • Karolyn

            How can you say marriage is a religious ceremony when so many are married by judges and others licensed by the state?

          • TML

            “…so many are married by judges and others licensed by the state?”

            That’s one of things I think shouldn’t be happening.
            Submission of records for reasons of heritage, and the like, should be voluntary. There’s no “license” that should be given. It is the responsibility of the individuals making their oaths to legally guard property, and other such things, prior to entering into the marriage. Divorcees in dispute over property and other such things, take their cases to court. Other than this, government shouldn’t be involved.

          • granny mae

            Karolyn,

            Marriages performed by judges etc are civil ceremonys, not religious weddings.

  • BigIron

    All governments, state, federal and local, should stay out of trying to control marriage; “we don’t need no stinkin’ laws”. Governments operate in the “public” side whereas marriage SHOULD be on the “private” side and IS (or should be) a “private” contract. Government should be “forced” back into its cage (the public side) and let the people (private side) alone. This whole controversy has come about because of government interference in peoples private lives. That same admonition also applies to peoples “undue” interference in the lives of other people.

    Each side in this issue has tried to use government to enforce their own agenda and what is needed is to just step back and realize government and it’s privileges are just another aspect of enslavement of us all.

    Governments and people need to stay out of other peoples “private” business (lives) and mind their own. If I allow YOU to believe what you choose to believe then YOU must allow me the same privilege or YOU attempt to become the “slave master”.

    The problem with government today is that THEY ARE attempting to become the “slave masters” of the people. They have confused the “private” and the “public” sides via FRAUD and the government schools have participated in that FRAUD.

    WAKE UP! … or be prepared to get down on you knees and say, “yes, massa”.

    • Karolyn

      Government just wants their take in the form of marriage license fees.

  • home boy

    i’m so happy to see our fearless leader is an avid bible reader and understands that god does not like men lying with men.

    • Doc Sarvis

      God does not like men killing men (or women or children for that matter) and he probably does not like American Idol either.

      • hicusdicus

        God does not care what man does because there is no God of any kind.

        • Jay

          Nevertheless hicusdicus, you are religious. For it takes faith to believe there is no God, as it does to believe that God exists! But what is the reason for your statement? Since, according to your words, there is no God, therefore, mankind may do as it wishes? Would you object to pedophiles adopting children? If you say no, what will your argument be to support your resistance to such? You may be labeled a bigot, or at worst, pedaphobe!

        • CJM

          hicus…: atheism IS a religion, in and of itself. At some point you had to believe there is a God in order to argue that God does not exist.

          • HHH

            Atheism is NOT a religion, by definition. Interesting that we are all born atheist, and taught to believe in what ever god or gods are of the parents/guardians persuation. Even after being brought up in a religious belief system, one can (and many often do) use reason to conclude that no god exists…. which is not a “belief that god does not exist”. It is a reasoned conclusion using one’s intellect !!

          • Jay

            HHH: Atheism is NOT a religion, by definition.

            Jay: By who’s definition?

            HHH:Interesting that we are all born atheist, and taught to believe in what ever god or gods are of the parents/guardians persuation.

            Jay: The flip-side of your unsubstantiated assertion is that, all are born theists but are encouraged, or instructed, by parents/guardians to atheism.

            HHH: Even after being brought up in a religious belief system, one can (and many often do) use reason to conclude that no god exists…. which is not a “belief that god does not exist”. It is a reasoned conclusion using one’s intellect !!

            Jay: Many who were brought up in a atheistic system have embraced theism. As well, a majority who have, posses considerable academic credentials!

            Francis Collins, a geneticist and former director of the Human Genome Project, one of the most important scientific projects of our time, converted to Christianity.

            ▪ Steve Beren – former member of the Socialist Workers Party (United States) who became a Christian conservative politician.[184]
            ▪ Anders Borg – Sweden’s Minister for Finance.[185]
            ▪ Bruce Cockburn – Canadian folk/rock guitarist and singer/songwriter. (former agnostic)[187]
            ▪ Francis Collins – physician-geneticist, noted for his landmark discoveries of disease genes, and the director of the National Human Genome Research Institute (former atheist)[188]
            ▪ Larry Flynt – American publisher and pornographer; briefly converted under the auspice of Ruth Carter Stapleton.[189]
            ▪ Bo Giertz – Swedish Confessional Lutheran Bishop, theologian, and writer (former atheist).[190]
            ▪ Joy Gresham – American writer and wife of C. S. Lewis (former atheist)[191]
            ▪ Anna Haycraft – Raised in Auguste Comte’s atheistic “church of humanity”, but became a conservative Catholic in adulthood.[192]
            ▪ Ignace Lepp – French psychiatrist whose parents were freethinkers and who joined the Communist party at age fifteen. He broke with the party in 1937 and eventually became a Catholic priest.[193]

            ▪ Khang Khek Leu (also known as Comrade Duch) – Cambodian director of Phnom Penh’s infamous Tuol Sleng detention center[195]
            ▪ C. S. Lewis – Oxford professor and writer; well known for The Chronicles of Narnia series, and for his apologetic Mere Christianity.[196]
            ▪ Shelley Lubben – former pornographic actress, current author and Executive Director of the Pink Cross Foundation, anti-pornography activist.[197]
            ▪ Gabriel Marcel – French philosopher and playwright (former agnostic).[198]
            ▪ Norma McCorvey – “Jane Roe” in Roe v. Wade[199]
            ▪ Alister McGrath – Biochemist and Christian theologian. Founder of ‘Scientific theology’ and critic of Richard Dawkins in his book Dawkins’ God: Genes, Memes, and the Meaning of Life [200]
            ▪ Czesław Miłosz – Nobel prize winning poet
            ▪ Nina Karin Monsen – a Norwegian moral philosopher and author who grew up in a humanist family, but later convert to Christianity through philosophic thinking.[201]
            ▪ The Montagnards – the Vietnamese hill-tribe minorities, traditionally animist, but have been converted to Christianity in large numbers since the mid-20th century. [202]
            ▪ Crissy Moran – former pornographic actress and current anti-pornography activist.[203]
            ▪ Lacey Mosley – Vocalist and lyricist for Alternative metal band Flyleaf.[204]
            ▪ William J. Murray – author and son of atheist activist Madalyn Murray O’Hair[205]
            ▪ Bernard Nathanson Medical doctor who was a founding member of NARAL, later becoming a Pro-Life proponent.[206]
            ▪ Marvin Olasky – former Marxist turned Christian conservative, he edits the Christian World magazine.[207][208]
            ▪ Enoch Powell – Conservative Party (UK) member who converted to Anglicanism.[209]
            ▪ George R. Price – Geneticist who became an Evangelical Christian and wrote about the New Testament. Later he moderated his evangelistic tendencies and switched from religious writing to working with the homeless.[210][211]
            ▪ Anne Rice – author of Interview with the Vampire[212]
            ▪ Dame Cicely Saunders – Templeton Prize and Conrad N. Hilton Humanitarian Prize winning nurse known for palliative care. She converted to Christianity as a young woman.[213]
            ▪ Edith Stein – Phenomenologist philosopher who converted to Catholicism and became a Discalced Carmelite nun; declared a saint by John Paul II.[214]
            ▪ Peter Steele – Lead singer of Type O Negative.[215]
            ▪ Lee Strobel – Author of The Case for Christ (former atheist)[216]
            ▪ Allen Tate – American poet, essayist and social commentator, and Poet Laureate Consultant in Poetry to the Library of Congress.[217]
            ▪ Evelyn Waugh – British writer (former agnostic).[218]
            ▪ Fay Weldon – British novelist and feminist.[219]
            ▪ Monty White – British Young Earth Creationist (former atheist)[220]
            ▪ John C. Wright – Science fiction author.[221]
            ▪ Nicko McBrain – Michael Henry best known as “Nicko” McBrain, drummer for Iron Maiden heavy metal band.

            HHH: Even after being brought up in a religious belief system, one can (and many often do) use reason to conclude that no god exists…. which is not a “belief that god does not exist”.

            Jay: Well, if you believing that God does not exist, is not a belief, than you do not believe that God doesn’t exist, otherwise, you would believe that God doesn’t exist, dumb dumb!

      • Jay

        Doc:God does not like men killing men (or women or children for that matter) and he probably does not like American Idol either.

        Doc, can you imagine what God thinks of abortion?

        • Doc Sarvis

          I can’t think of anyone who “likes” abortion!

          • Karolyn

            That is a very profound statement, Doc. That’s why supporters are called pro-CHOICE.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            No karolyn, that is what THEY call themselves trying to convince THEMSELVES that what they do is not WRONG!!! BUT IT DEFINATELY IS!!!!!

        • Robert Smith

          Here is what I would think if I were a god dealing with abortion… So, you can count it as imagination:

          An accidental pregnancy is a test for the woman and the man. How they respond, taking into consideration their relationship, their station in life (do they have other kids to support on a thin margin) etc. is what I would be watching for. DO THEY HANDLE THINGS IN A WAY WHICH IS BEST FOR THE CIRCUMSTANCES THEY ARE IN? Sometimes abortion is the responsible thing to do, particularly with very young girls who were made pregnant by some old predator.

          Rob

    • JUKEBOX

      What kind of medications are you on? If he reads the Bible, it is to find out what he can do to persecute believers.

  • HHH

    The founders may have had religous beliefs, but they did not write the founding documents with a religous intent or religous bias. Civil law and all the constructs within it, should be religous neutral, and since marriage is a civil construct and a civil contract defining civil privledges and ownership, one must reasonably conclude that religion should be kept out of the debate. To asnswer Song about mental retardation, it is used in this context meaning that there is a lack of higher intelligence and reasoning. Those who possess higher reasoning capabilities conclude that it is unlikely a supernatural being exists, and that places described as heaven or hell connot exist. There is no evidence of the supernatural thing many call god, except in the holy books and their scripture. Regarding the ten commandments, there is no evidence that the stone tablets claimed ever existed, and except for three precepts, the “cpmmandments” are dictates to worship some being fabricrated by men with simple minds and simple understanding of the universe. The holy book some call the bible is replete with contradictions of science as is understood today. But believe what you will, just don’t push the religous beliefs into goernment.

    • hicusdicus

      The one thing you can count on all religions doing is trying to push them selves into your life whether you want it or not.

      • JUKEBOX

        I wish I knew where you live, so I could send the Jehovah Witnesses to your door.

      • Jay

        That would include atheism and every other ism you can think of! It is not religion, but rather, human nature that suffers from such affliction. At this point and time, we have the homosexuals that are forcing their religion/lifestyle into our lives. It may not be viewed as a religion, nevertheless, it cannot be argued that it is being forced, by hook or by crook, into our lives!

        • Song

          good point Jay

        • http://?? Joe H.

          Jay,
          TripleH when he claims that those that believe in God don’t have the reasoning or higher education to correctly choose must not have read the ABOVE LIST!!! I see a great many names there that could make him look like a simpleton!!!

    • Cawmun Cents

      You must think that the majority of men who founded this nation are idiots,but what do you expect from government edumacated academics?
      Truly amazing how you waste thought and reason on nothing.-CC.

    • CJM

      HHH: What you say about CIVIL unions is true; however, MARITAL unions are religious rites that the founding fathers recognized…they weren’t stupid. That’s why the First Amendment recognizes the need for religious freedom for individuals, yet forbids the establishment of a National Religion (as in Great Britain, any of the Middle East countries, etc). A civil union is a secular ceremony that can be performed by a member of government or even a ship’s captain; but neither one can perform a marriage ceremony because they are not a legitimate representative of a chuch.

    • Jay

      HHH: Civil law and all the constructs within it, should be religous neutral,

      Should it be morally neutral as well, HHH? If so, then anything and everything should and must be allowed, and the hell with you if you dare criticize. On the other hand, if you think there should be a level of morality with respect to Civil Law, then who will set the standard? By who’s standards? Your’s, mine? The secular’s, the religious? Who’s? By demanding that civil law be religiously neutral you may unknowingly be demanding that it be morally neutral. Btw, you made mention of of the ten commandments and that there is no evidence that they ever existed, however, a brief study of its contents would apprise even a donkey of their necessity for a stable society.

      HHH:The holy book some call the bible is replete with contradictions of science as is understood.

      I challenge you to show me just ONE example where the Bible contains contradictions of science as is understood. PUT UP, OR SHUT UP!!!

      • Karolyn

        Excluding religion does not exclude morality. Man is born moral and is corrupted by society.

        • Jay

          Karolyn:Excluding religion does not exclude morality. Man is born moral and is corrupted by society.

          Yes Karolyn, you are correct! We are moral beings, and all are born with an innate moral nature. But my question was; Who’s moral standard(s), or level(s) will decide, or dictate, the course of society?

          • Robert Smith

            ALL of them.

            And don’t give me any of those lame extremist arguments about marrying chairs or raping kids.

            Most folks know what is right and good without your god, or his lame representatives, telling them.

            Rob

  • Bob Marshall

    God’s law is supreme. He will have the last say.There will be no laywers present on judgement day.

    • Robert Smith

      No religious nuts will be there either.

      What if being gay is OK with your god? After all, here is no record of him, Jesus, or the holy ghost ever having been with a girl, except that pregnancy of under age Mary thing.

      Rob

  • CJM

    Marriage really needs no defense, but it appears people seem to think it does. Just because some believe the same gender couple can “marry,” it doesn’t make it so. Marriage is a union of two people, male and female, and serves the purpose of procreation–same gender couples, even with the lesbians who under-go artificial insemination, do not accomplish this task as described by the Ultimate Creator. As for the statement: “Our perspective is that it’s not only incorrect, but deeply disappointing, to have a politician claim support for marriage between one man and one woman on the campaign trail, then actively undermine that once in office,” he told the newspaper. “We are confident Congress will make the right decision here.” Potential legislators and Presidents have always made promises of and/or support they do not intend to keep and have always found something they did not like or refused to support and had it discontinued…so what’s new here? People need to look at the candidate’s record, his/her character, and what they really supported before the campaign began..and vote for the one who stands out in following through and believes in the US Constitution. obama merely said he was going to make ‘change you can believe in,’ and no one questioned him. He would never give details as to what needed changeing, why change was needed, and how he would make those changes. People ignored his slip-of-the-tongue admissions: “I was not born in the United States; I was born in Kenya.” When asked if this would affect his eligibility for the Presidency by one senior citizen, he said: “It doesn’t matter.” In another stop, San Francisco, January 2008: “I plan to dismantel the US Constitution.” Not one person challenged this…even his opponants failed to look at this giveaway that he was not eligible and he IS anti-American.

    • Crystal

      In addition CJM, he also stated in Colorado in 2008, that the country needed something stronger than the U.S. military. People missed that one also.

      • CJM

        Yes, Crystal, and he is already doing that with the black American youth. I saw a short video on some of this training–not one youth from any other ethnic/racial group was involved. He calls this his national security force and intends it to be more powerful than our own military…isn’t that scarey!?11

  • Daylo

    The “gay” community has hijacked the constitution. This is an act we are talking about. A sex act. That’s it and nothing more. This particular sex act produces nothing, except heartache, disease, psychiatric problems and obsession. It produces no offspring. This was one of God’s commands. Be fruitful and multiply.

    The “gay” community is obsessed with this “abnormal sex act” to make it legal and not only that, but to infringe upon the institution of marriage as God viewed it. He (God) said it is between a man and a woman. Now, you can claim to be a Christian and belong to this or that denomination, but really you or your denomination have no say so either way. It is God’s laws. Not Man’s or any denomination.

    If you have ever blogged with a “gay” person, you will see the nastiness and the defense of their sex act. They obsess to become defined by this sex act and make the ACT itself who they really are. This is not a civil right, no matter who writes the legislation. This is aberrant behavior, nothing more and nothing less. The heterosexual sex act does not define me as a person. I am much more than that, but the “gay” community wants and seeks to be separated from others by defining themselves as the act itself.

    Something is terribly wrong here and I believe it is a mental illness.

    • CJM

      Daylo: I can agree that the obcessions you speak of are abnormal, but it has nothing to do with being mentally ill……….it has everything with distorting morality.

      • Daylo

        CJM, I have known several homosexuals in my lifetime. All of the ones that I have come into contact with, have had strange relationships with their mothers from childhood. It is as if they have been mothered to the point where they adore and admire their mothers so much that they want to be their mothers. That is just one of the basis that I put forth my opinion upon. That is a mental illness. There are other so-called reasons for deviated sexual acts of course.

        • Karolyn

          Well, the ones I’e been friends with have had no such relationships with their mothers. The mos logical hypothesis I have found into why is the amount of testosterone a woman has available to her baby at a certain time in the gestation period. Of course, you do know that we all start as female.

          • Daylo

            The homosexuals that I have known have had a love/hate relationship with their mothers. They adored them when they were younger and wanted to be them, then as they grew older they began to resent them. The mothers who bore these homosexual males had actually wanted girls and had no qualms in telling others, and they lavished a mother’s love on the male child as they would have a daughter, allowing their hair to grow long with curls, giving them dolls to play with and treating them with the affection they would have lavished on a daughter. The fathers of these particular males were absent either as alcoholics or just absent emotionally. In my opinion, this was a selfish evil performed by the mother. I can only speak for what I have actually seen, and this is true.

        • DanB

          As a little boy, I held a doll to my breast as if breast feeding. I don’t recall any of this though. I am only told so. Am I homosexual? No. Do I love my mother? Yes. When I was a teenager, my dream was to be a father. Did I go out and have sex with the girls? No. Now I am married and I am a father. I find the heterosexual lifestyle very rewarding…. the rest qualifies as T.M.I.. To boil things down for others, I chose to follow a path I knew to be right. If I wanted to be a father, then I must honor the commitments I make to that end. And if I honor the commitments to my children, then I must honor their mother. If I honor their mother and am committed to a family, then I must marry a woman I love and desire to be around for time and eternity. When I was dating the woman who is now my wife, I literally ran away several times apologizing because I wanted to avoid sexual sin before marriage. She respected my desire to do this in God’s way and I think God has blessed us because of that.

          If you want to talk about homosexuality, that is unnatural. Sodom and Gomorrah were wicked and ripe for destruction. Now I don’t think sexual sin was the only thing they had a problem with, however, of all the things that could be used to illustrate how wicked the cities had become this was the example provided. Translation: they were far gone so much so they did not even respect messengers from God. How far off are we? How long until God decides that it is better to move the righteous then to spare our cities, our nations?

          Someone else pointed out that Christ had sinners at his dinner table. This was not uncommon. If you pay attention to the scriptures, Christ was calling the sinners to repentance, not the righteous. The irony of course is that we all sin, the difference is who among us are willing to accept the message of Christ to repent. Would Christ accept a homosexual at his dinner table? Probably. But would it be the same man or woman who left Christ’s table as who sat down there? Probably not. If we allow Christ in our lives, we can change.

          And whoever quoted scriptures about “judge not” probably ought to read their scriptures a bit more too. For the scriptures warn us that with what judgment we judge others, so too will we be judged. Interesting tag there. Before I try to explain, let me go on and remind people that the scriptures also tell us to “judge righteous judgment.” Are these in conflict? Perhaps not. For if I judge sin as righteousness and righteousness as sin, then by the first “judge not” with its accompanying warning tells me that my righteousness will be judged as sin for that is how I judged others. So, the question for me really becomes, how do I learn “righteous judgment”? Now that is tough one and will probably take me beyond this life to learn. I know that. In the meantime, I pray and ask God that He will humble me to know when I judge wrongly, when I should judge, and when I should not. For example, condemn the sin but not the sinner. That is a tough one. If I would to apply this to homosexuality, my best guess is that there should be no laws of the land against it. It is a choice. Not a right choice, but a choice nonetheless. But that also means there should be no laws to support it either. So we leave the choice as a matter between God and the sinner to settle. We love the man, not their transgression. However, all this being said, I watch the laws being passed, the education system transformed, and it seems to me that man is worshiping a false god. We are setting ourselves up as the ultimate law and thus we are dooming ourselves for both temporal and spiritual destruction. That I think is what was the real problem with Sodom and Gomorrah. They were so far gone that they put their own carnal desires above all us to the point that they no longer feared God or respected God’s servants. Their sexual sins were merely a symptom of a deeper problem and the real difference between them whom God destroyed and the sinners who ate dinner with Christ.

  • Thor

    There is no better illustration of the progressive methodology than the subject of ‘Gay Marriage.’ Divide the issues and conquer the conservative mind, one moral issue after another. That is the practiced procedure and it’s straight out of Saul Alinsky’s “Rules for Radicals.” Many of the posts here contain valid points but there is an obvious willingness demonstrated here to discuss issues like this separate and apart from the core morality that speaks to them. Virtues and vices are a package deal and making exceptions to the ‘package’ leads to confusion and relativism. Gay marriage is neither moral, nor is it a ‘legal’ right. It is a ‘privilege’ licensed by the state; and, as long as the state allows equal access under law to the proscribed prerequisites and established parameters, no violation of rights has occurred. If this were just about probate laws and insurance benefits, there would be no need to change those parameters. A gay couple would simply settle for a civil contract so as to will their property to each other and add each other to insurance at work, etc. But it’s not about ‘rights’ or ‘marriage’: it’s objective is to further dissolve orthodox definitions–the definition of the nuclear family in particular, a building block of society that has already been compromised enough by heterosexuals, by divorce, by activist probate courts. Less than 25% of the population today gets married and stays married–for a host of relativistic reasons. Such statistics demonstrate the hateful truth that a nation build on the true foundation of the family has now devolved into a relativistic nanny state, held in pseudo-stasis by the webbed matrix of entitlement bureaucracies. We will not get back our confidence in humanity and we will not return to the stability of a historic and known morality by compromising moral authority one issue at a time.

    • Jay

      Superbly state Thor! As well, your steadfast and remarkably accurate insight, is always, greatly appreciated.

      • Song

        I second that…well said

  • jopa

    It wasn’t that many years ago it was illegal for a white to marry an oriental or a black person.Most people don’t even think much about it today.My how time changes things.

    • Daylo

      Times have changed, but the Bible remains true from start to finish. It never changes.

      • Jay

        Furthermore, God always was. He has no beginning, and He has no end. Therefore, His Word remains true, and it cannot, nor will it be ever altered. One may try, but will break themselves in pieces, and they will be no more!

  • Jay

    COMMUNIST INFILTRATION OF THE CATHOLIC HIERARCHY
    Mr. Manning Johnson, a former official of the Communist Party in America, gave the following testimony in 1953 to the House Un-American Activities Committee:

    “Once the tactic of infiltration of religious organizations was set by the Kremlin… the communists discovered that the destruction of religion could proceed much faster through the infiltration of the Church by communists operating within the Church itself. The communist leadership in the United States realized that the infiltration tactic in this country would have to adapt itself to American conditions and the religious makeup peculiar to this country. In the earliest stages it was determined that with only small forces available to them, it would be necessary to concentrate communist agents in the seminaries. The practical conclusion drawn by the Red leaders was that these institutions would make it possible for a small communist minority to influence the ideology of future clergymen in the paths conducive to communist purposes…. The policy of infiltrating seminaries was successful beyond even our communist expectations.” – Manning Johnson

    Albert Vassart, a former member of the French communist party, revealed in 1955 that Moscow had issued a 1936 order that carefully selected members of communist youth to enter seminaries and, after training, receive ordination as priests. Some of these were to infiltrate religious orders, particularly the Dominicans (In his essay, “Satan at Work,” the great Catholic philosopher Dietrich von Hildebrand reported that the French Dominicans had become so communistic in their “evangelization” that in 1953, the Order barely escaped dissolution by the order of Pope Pius XII.)

    Continued: http://www.tldm.org/news2/infiltrators.htm

  • Jay

    SEDUCTION TO DESTRUCTION:
    THE HOMOSEXUAL AGENDA

    By Gary Yinger

    In numerous civilizations throughout history, personal values and morality have slid into the pit and were attended to by God’s wrath. The slide is, again, well underway in our great USA today. The destruction of Sodom is the classic example in history where the town was obliterated for practicing the homosexual lifestyle.

    Homosexual activists have set a well planned and well financed agenda that started in the 1960s and now includes not only tolerance of their lethal lifestyle but acceptance with privileges as a special class, as a minority group. The key target is our youth. This can be seen in the following written by “gay revolutionary” Mark Swift and printed in the February 15, 1987 issue of Gay Community News. These excerpts are reprinted from the Congressional Record:

    “We shall sodomize your sons, We shall seduce them in your schools, in your dormitories, in your gymnasiums, in your locker rooms, in your youth groups, Your sons shall become our minions and do our bidding. They will come to crave and adore us. All laws banning homosexual activity will be revoked. Instead, legislation shall be passed which engenders love between men. Our writers and artists will make love between men fashionable…. We shall raise vast, private armies…to defeat you. The family unit….will be abolished. Perfect boys will be conceived and grown in the genetic laboratory….All churches who condemn us will be closed. Our only gods are handsome young men. All males who insist on remaining stupidly heterosexual will be tried in homosexual courts of justice and will become invisible men. Tremble, hetero swine, when we appear before you without our masks.”

    • Karolyn

      The rantings of a wacked-out radical. I can tell you, after 64 years of life on this earth, I have never met a gay person with this type of agenda. Just keep that hate and fear going, Jay!

      • Jay

        It was printed in the Gay Community News. Obviously the gay community was ok with the ranting and ravings of Mark Swift, as there was no criticism levelled at Mr. Smith. Also, not only was Mr. Smith’s statement printed and circulated, but it was never retracted. Did not the “Gay Community News” stop to consider before printing Mr. Smith’s outrageous comment? No, because obviously they concurred!!!

        • Karolyn

          A lot has changed in 23 years. I’m sure you wouldn’t see anything like that published again. I would also wonder about that particular publication. We don’t know how large a publication it was or how large its readership. You know that there will always be radicals on any side and many of them could rightly be labeled as insane.

          • Song

            It sucks to “eat crow” doesn’t it Karolyn.

          • Karolyn

            I ain’t eatin’ crow, Song. I stand by everything I say.

  • Jay

    IT’S TIME FOR TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH, NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH

    CONSIDER:

    Dr. Judith Reisman, expert witness before the attorney general’s commission on pornography and veteran researcher has found contrary to the popular view that there is little crossover between homosexuality and pedophilia, she says homosexuals are anxious to recruit young boys–a practice that is becoming easier than to sex education and “diversity programs” in schools that teach children to consider homosexuality as both acceptable and normal.

    • Karolyn

      I’d love to see her resume and religious affiliation.

      • Jay

        Why does the “mainstream press” condemn the Catholic Church for allowing predatory homosexuals to destroy the lives of boys, while simultaneously condemning the Boy Scouts of America for not allowing precisely the same thing in their organization?

        • Karolyn

          Please Jay. You’re comparing apples and oranges.

          • Jay

            I Am a Man

            By Greg Quinlan

            Why have gay activists instigated media attention over ex-gays and the husband of Presidential candidate Michelle Bachmann?

            Apparently, Mr. Bachmann, who has a PhD in clinical psychology, operates several counseling centers which also offer services to homosexual clients seeking to overcome unwanted same-sex attractions. But because even one ex-gay proves that homosexual behavior is not innate or immutable, the gay lobby’s fear of their former members results in false claims and attacks aimed at preventing homosexuals from exercising their right to self-determination. They cannot bear to have even one homosexual leave homosexuality, hence their outrage at Dr. Bachmann.

            I know because I am ex-gay myself. I suffer more harassment as a former homosexual than I ever did as an out and proud homosexual.

            The ex-gay community includes thousands of former homosexuals like myself who benefited from counseling. We did not choose our homosexual feelings, but we did exercise our right to seek help to change those feelings. As a registered nurse, I saw hundreds of gay men die of AIDS before I finally left the gay lifestyle.

            Contrary to the myths being generated by outraged homosexuals, counseling for unwanted same-sex attractions is not prohibited by any medical association. Unhappy homosexuals are not children in need of parental permission and can freely choose their own therapeutic treatment just like anyone else.

            The Bachmann incident demonstrates that as homosexuals gain more civil rights, heterosexuals are losing theirs. Because gays are a wealthy and politically powerful minority, they claim access to media attention, political power and corporate influence that middle America does not have.

            Continued:http://americansfortruth.com/issues/the-agenda-glbtq-activist-groups/

        • Kinetic1

          Jay,
          Your bias has blinded you. The Boy Scouts actions may be presented as an attempt to prevent pedophiles from assaulting the kids, but in reality they are trying to prevent all homosexuals from acting as leaders based on an unfair assumption that they will pervert these young minds. Let’s not forget that there have been many cases of “straight” Scout leaders turning out to be pedophiles. We had a situation like that with a school bus driver/Scout leader who was found to have child porn on his computer. I agree that pedophiles need to be prosecuted and known pedophiles should be disallowed form participation in Scouts or any other child leadership program. Most of the gay men who have been drummed out of the Scouts were generally considered good leaders prior to their outing, were often Scouts themselves as kids and in some cases were Eagle Scouts. The one thing they were not is guilty of being anything more than gay.

  • Jay

    “You can’t change your gender,” says man who tried

    Over the years I’ve interviewed or met many former homosexual men and ex-lesbians, but never an ex-transgender. Walt Heyer is one such man: with Christ’s help he walked away from the ”transgender” lifestyle (gender confusion). Unfortunately, his godly change occurred long after he’d undergone a radical “sex-change” operation that mutilated his genitalia – as part of his quest to become the woman in his head, “Laura”.

    Heyer describes his very troubled childhood — including being beaten by his father and victimized at a young age by his grandmother — who dressed him up as a girl. Walt was also sexually molested over a period of three years by his uncle. Heyer now crusades against “Gender Reassignment Surgery” and counsels others seeking to overcome the pull of gender confusion in their lives. He has also authored three books including his autobiography, “Trading My Sorrows,” and “Paper Genders” – all available on his website, http://www.tradingmysorrows.com/. Please share this interview with your friends and especially young people, who are barraged with pro-”transgender” and pro-homosexual messages. — Peter LaBarbera, http://www.aftah.org

    Continued: http://americansfortruth.com/issues/lies-by-homosexual-activists/

  • Jay

    “You can’t change your gender,” says man who tried

    Over the years I’ve interviewed or met many former homosexual men and ex-lesbians, but never an ex-transgender. Walt Heyer is one such man: with Christ’s help he walked away from the ”transgender” lifestyle (gender confusion). Unfortunately, his godly change occurred long after he’d undergone a radical “sex-change” operation that mutilated his genitalia – as part of his quest to become the woman in his head.

    Heyer describes his very troubled childhood — including being beaten by his father and victimized at a young age by his grandmother — who dressed him up as a girl. Walt was also sexually molested over a period of three years by his uncle. Heyer now crusades against “Gender Reassignment Surgery” and counsels others seeking to overcome the pull of gender confusion in their lives. He has also authored three books including his autobiography, “Trading My Sorrows,” and “Paper Genders”. Please share this interview with your friends and especially young people, who are barraged with pro-”transgender” and pro-homosexual messages.

    Continued: http://americansfortruth.com/issues/lies-by-homosexual-activists/

  • Ridge Runner

    Any man or woman in the fed gov that supports repealing doma should be a short plank to walk carring a eight inch concrete block chained to their leg.

  • Ridge Runner

    Docky sad sack you should lead the parade down that plank with two blocks/

  • Jay

    Frightening Gay Statistics

    Although most homosexual activists publicly deny that they want access to boys, many homosexual groups around the world are working aggressively to lower the age of sexual consent. Their cause is being aided by the professional psychiatric and psychological associations, which have moved n recent years toward normalizing pedophilia, much as they did with homosexuality in the early 1970s.

    Kevin Bishop, an admitted pederast (pedophile), is promoting the work of the North American /Man-Boy Love Association (NAMBLA) in South Africa. Bishop, who was molested at the age of six, is also an admitted homosexual who is blunt about the relationship between homosexuality and pedophilia. “Scratch the average homosexual and you will find a pedophile,” said Bishop in an interview with the Electronic Mail & Guardian (June 30, 1997). (Angella Johnson, “The man who loves to love boys,” Electronic Mail & Guardian, June 30, 1997.

    This pedophile/homosexual activist began studying pedophilia while a student at Rhodes University. He also discovered Karl Marx there, as well as other literature that helped form his worldview. His views are being echoed around the world by homosexual activists who are seeking what they call “sexual freedom” for children.

    Bishop is on a crusade in South Africa to have “age of sexual consent laws” abolished, and he is looking for help from NAMBLA to accomplish his goal. He says children must be empowered “by teaching them about loving relationships at an early age, and giving them the opportunity to make an informed decision about having [sex].” He also approves of incest, noting, “Two women psychologists in America say the healthiest introduction to sex for a child should be with their [sic] parents, because it is less threatening and the emotional intimacy more comfortable.” (Angella Johnson, “The man who loves to love boys,” Electronic Mail & Guardian, June 30, 1997.

    Bishop agrees with NAMBLA that the next social movement in Western politics will be an attack m “sexual ageism,” which prohibits sexual contact based on age differences. The movement already is well under way in Europe and Canada.

    Homosexuals did not need scientific evidence, neither do pedophiles.

    The public approval of homosexuality and the idea of homosexuals “marrying” would have been unheard of thirty years ago. But the homosexual campaign’s success did not depend on rightness or on scientific evidence – but in its image, and on the increasing permissiveness of society. Dr John Money of John HopKins University has urged pedophiles not to be discouraged by the lack of evidence backing up their cause. He says:

    “When the gay rights activists became politically active, there wasn’t a sufficient body of scientific information for them to base their gay activism on. So, you don’t have to have a basic body of scientific information in order to decide to work actively for a particular ideology. As long as you’re prepared to be put in Jail. Isn’t that how social change has always taken place?”

    This quote comes from the “scholarly” Dutch journal, Paidika — A Journal of pedophilia. ( ) If homosexuality has been posed as healthy, good and normal, in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, so can pedophilia. Pro-pedophilic articles are making their way into academia.

    SOURCE: Africa Christian Action
    Book: The PinkAgenda: Sexual Revolution in South Africa and the Ruin of the Family
    By Christine MC Cafferty with Peter Hammond.

    Continued: http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evils%20in%20America/Sodomy/frightening_gay_statistics.htm

  • Jay

    PEDOPHILIA IN THE UNITED STATES

    In the United States, homosexual activists are more circumspect about their efforts to gain access to children than they are in Canada or Europe. While NAMBLA has regularly marched in homosexual pride parades in New York, San Francisco and other major cities, homosexual activists publicly disassociate themselves from pedophiles as part of a public relations strategy.

    Yet homosexual groups are actively recruiting gay youth” through such groups as The Sexual Minority Youth Assistance League, the HettrickMartin Institute, AIDS service providers and various agencies that assist runaways.

    A concerted effort to change age-of-consent laws has not yet emerged, but some ominous signs portend an eventual effort. When Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg was an attorney for the ACLU, she co-authored a report recommending that the age of consent for sexual acts be lowered to 12 years of age.” ).3 (3 “Sex Bias in the U.S. Code,” Report for the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights, April 1977, p. 102, quoted in “Ruth Bader Ginsburg’s Feminist World View,” The Phyllis Schlafly Report, Vol. 26, No. 12, Section 1, p.3. The paragraph reads as follows: ‘”Eliminate the phrase “carnal knowledge of any female, not his wife, who has not attained the age of 16 years” and substitute a federal, sex-neutral definition of the offense…. A person is guilty of an offense if he engages in a sexual act with another person…. [and] the other person is, in fact, less than 12 years old..)

    The public still has a revulsion against child sexual abuse. In fact, whenever there is an attempt to show a connection between pedophiles and homosexuality, the standard response from the activists is that as many as 97 percent of all pedophiles are heterosexuals and/or married men. Thus, they deflect attention away from their own proclivities to have sex with children.

    There is some truth to the claim that many pedophiles are heterosexually oriented men. To be accurate, pedophilia is the crime of sexually molesting a child of the opposite sex. Pederasty, on the other hand, is the crime of molesting a child of the same sex. The term pedophile is used as a general term to describe a person who molests any child, and the term pedophilia, however, is commonly used to refer to child sexual abuse in general. The homosexual who molests a child of the same sex, therefore, technically is guilty of pederasty, rather than pedophilia – yet both are child sexual abuse.

    Homosexuals deny that there is a high incidence of child molestation among them, but the statistics tell another story.

    First, we need to look at the statistics on child sexual abuse in general. The National Committee to Prevent Child Abuse (NCPCA) has published the following information:

    1. Reports of sexual abuse are on the increase in our nation.

    2. Between 80 and 95 percent of all child molestation’s are committed by men. The NCPCA notes, however, that there is a “dramatic increase in the number of adolescent offenders who have committed sexually aggressive acts against other children.”

    3. Girls are more likely to be the victims of molestation than boys. Males account for 25 to 35 percent of child sexual abuse victims.4 (4. “Child Sexual Abuse, “National Committee to Prevent Child Abuse, December 1996, http://www.childabuse.org)

  • Jay

    How prevalent is child molestation among homosexuals?

    The Gay Report, published by homosexual researchers Jay and Young in 1979, revealed that 73 percent of homosexuals surveyed had at some time had sex with boys 16 to 19 years of age or younger.5 (5. K. Jay and A. Young, The Gay Report (New York: Summit Books, 1979), p. 275. )

    Although homosexuals account for less than two percent of the population. they constitute about a third of child molesters.6 (6. K. Freund and R.I. Watson, “The Proportions of Heterosexual and Homosexual Pedophiles Among Sex Offenders Against Children: An Exploratory Study,” Journal of Sex and Marital Therapy 18 (Spring 1992): 3443, cited in “The Problem of Pedophilia,” op. cit. Also, K. Freund and R.I. Watson, “Pedophilia and Heterosexuality vs. Homosexuality,” Journal of Sex and Marital Therapy 10 (Fall 1984): 197, cited in NARTH Fact Sheet. ) Further, as noted by the Encino, Calif.-based National Association for research and Therapy of Homosexuality (NARTH), “since homosexual pedophiles victimize far more children than do heterosexual pedophiles, it is estimated that approximately 80 percent or pedophile victims are boys who have been molested by adultmales.7 (7. Thomas Schmidt, Straight and Narrow? Compassion and Clarity in the Homosexuality Debate (Downers Grove, IU.: Intervarsity Press), p. 114, cited in “The Problem of Pedophilia, op. cit., p. 2. )

    A nationwide investigation of child molestation in the Boy Scouts from 1971 to 1991 revealed that more than 2,000 boys reported molestations by adult Scout leaders. (Note: The Scouts, who have 150,000 Scoutmasters and assistant Scoutmasters, ban hundreds of men each year from scouting out of concern that they might abuse boys.)8 (8. Patrick Boyle, Scout’s Honor (Rocklin, Calif.: Prima Publishing, 1994), p. 3l6. )

    A study of Canadian pedophiles has shown that 30 percent of those studied admitted to having engaged In homosexual acts as adults, and 91 percent of the molesters of non-familial boys admitted to no lifetime sexual contact other than homosexual.9 (9. W. L. Marshall, et al., “Early onset and deviant sexuality in child molesters,” Journal of interpersonal Violence 6 (1991): 323-336, cited in “Pedophilia: The Part of Homosexuality They Don’t Want You to see,” Colorado for Family Values Report, Vol. 14, March 1994. )

    Judith A. Reisman, Ph.D., and Charles B. Johnson, Ph.D., conducted a content study of the personal ads in the Advocate, the national gay and lesbian newsmagazine and discovered that “chickens,” a common term for underage boys sought for sex, were widely solicited. Many of the advertisements in the magazine solicited boys and teens from within a larger pool of prostitution ads.10 (10. Judith A. Reisman, Ph.D., “A Content Analysis of ‘The Advocate,”‘ unpublished manuscript p. 18, quoted in “Pedophilia: The Part of Homosexuality They Don’t WantYou to See,” ibid. ) The authors also note a statement from a book review by homosexual activist Larry Kramer that the work, “like much canonized male homosexual literature, involves sexually predatory white men on the prowl for dark-skinned boys to gratify them.11 (11. From “Lany Kramer’s Reading List,” The Advocate, January 24, 1995, p. 99, cited in “Status Report,” The Reisman & Johnson Report of Partner Solicitation Characteristics as a Reflection of More Sexual Orientation and the Threat to Children, First Principles Press, January l995.)
    In a 1985 study of the rates of molestation among homosexual pederasts compared to heterosexu1 pedophiles, Dr. Paul Cameron found the following:

    153 pederasts had sexually molested 22,981 boys over an average period of 22 years.

    224 pedophiles had molested 4,435 girls over an average period of 18 years.

    The average pederast molested an average of 150 boys, and each heterosexual pedophile molested an average of 20 girls, a ratio of 7.5 to one. 12 (12. Dr. Paul Cameron, “Homosexual Molestation of Children/Sexual Interaction of Teacher and Pupil,” Psychological Reports 57 (1985): 1227-1236.)

  • Jay

    GOING AFTER CHILDREN

    Gaining access to children has been a long-term goal of the homosexual movement. In 1972, the National Coalition of Gay Organizations adopted a ‘Gay Rights Platform” that included the following demand: “Repeal of all laws governing the age of sexual consent.” David Thorstad, a spokesman for the homosexual rights movement and NAMBLA, clearly states the objectives: ‘The ultimate goal of the gay liberation movement is the achievement of sexual freedom for all – not just equal rights for ‘lesbians and gay men, but also freedom of sexual expression for young people and children.” This goal has not changed since it was articulated in 1972.

    Enrique T. Rueda, The Homosexual Network (Old Greenwhich, Connecticut: The Devin Adair Company, 1982), p. 201

    AGE OF CONSENT

    Homosexual organizations around the world have embarked upon a vigorous campaign to lower actual age of consent laws by claiming that current laws are discriminatory against homosexuals. In England, for example, a major push is underway to lower the age of sexual consent for homosexuals to 14. OutRage!, a homosexual organization that operates much like ACT UP in the United States, has been leading the crusade. In a statement published on the Queer Intelligence Service website, OutRage! claims that “under-age queers have rights too. They are some of the most vulnerable members of our community. We have a special responsibility to protect their interests and welfare.

    Peter Tatchell, “Why We Want an Age of Consent of 14,” Queer Intelligence Service, Agenda for Gay Law Reform, OutRage.!, London, Sept. 10, 1998, http://www.OutRage.cygnet.co.uk.

    SOURCE: Frank V. York and Robert H. Knight, “Homosexual Activists Work To Normalize Sex With Boys”

  • jopa

    Jay:That’s just too much information for an individual to have access to to be straight.We all remember Larry Craig and how he blasted gays, so come out come out whatever closet you are in.Perhaps not the access but the interest and like in the words of Marcus Bachman being around gays gives you these urges and desires.Now what does that say about him?He may want to be straight maybe but who knows.

    • Jay

      Jopa, your statement is at best, convoluted! I would like to reply, but not sure where to start, much less fathom your point!

      • Song

        No kidding Jay! My guess is that Jopa is not a proponent of gay activism but is not willing to cross his liberal peers on this board like Karolyn for example, by saying so…or he just got out of bed? Who knows.

        • Jay

          No doubt!

        • http://?? Joe H.

          Song,
          Perhaps jopa is speaking from EXPERIENCE and it is HIM who is in the closet???

  • Daylo

    I personally know a male who was sexually molested as a small child. He has suffered unbelievably. His mind has tried to come to grips with this and he continues to struggle as he nears his 40th birthday.

    This mental anguish has almost destroyed his marriage and he feels as if his childhood was stolen from him by a selfish freak, who went on to abuse and victimize even more children. Quite frankly, his childhood was taken from him. Sadly, this person was a relative of this young man and this one fact has made it even far worse than it would have been otherwise, as family members take sides…a lot of the time, sadly the wrong side. This heaps even more anguish upon the victim and encourages the victimizer.

    This is a sick and twisted group of individuals who have used a sexual act to gain lobbyists and legislation created in an unholy alliance. Gay law reform? Puuuuuhllleeeeeze! Where is this young man’s protection against such victimization FROM homosexuals?

    I cry for the vitimized children who struggle day in and day out with the knowledge that they were USED to gratify someone else, without a single thought to the lifetime of mental hurt, anguish and self-questioning of the children they victimized. These grown adults still suffer and will remain children in my eyes forever.

    • Karolyn

      Homosexuals do not comprise all pedophiles!! Was this relative of your friend gay? Your friend does not have to suffer so much if he would take advantage of all the help that there is out there. NOBODY needs to suffer needlessly with all the help available! Too many people carry too much baggage from their youth and blame everything on what was done to them. We are each responsible for our own mental health. I am not belittling what happened to anyone. It is truly horrible and disgusting; however, there is a way for everyone to heal.

      • Jay

        Karolyn, unless you have walked a mile in someone’s shoes, you should refrain from offering simple solutions. I assume you were never molested. If so, how could you possibly know if it can be healed? I suspect, that it can never be healed. One may learn to deal with childhood trauma, whatever the stripe, but one will never get over it. Unless off course, you can erase memory!

        • Karolyn

          Jay – I didn’t say it was simple! It takes a lot of work and dedication to changing one’s self.

    • eyeswideopen

      Daylo, you failed to mention that a large majority of children molested, were molested by Christians in the Catholic faith. Key word here: Christians.

      • Jay

        How Catholic “gay ministries” serve the homosexual collective

        The recent controversy over a Mexican “gay Catholic ministry” called the San Elredo Comunidad or the Lesbian and Gay Community of San Elredo, an official organ of the Diocese of Saltillo, Coahuila, Mexico, headed by Dominican Bishop José Raúl Vera López, O.P., illustrates how well these politically-based and politically motivated Trojan horses serve the Homosexual Collective, as opposed to serving God, the Catholic Church, and the individuals caught up in the vice of sexual perversions who need to be extricated from the Collective.

        The San Elredo Community is an “inclusive” ministry which caters to male homosexuals, lesbians, bisexuals, transsexuals, transgenders, transvestites, leather and bondage devotees, sadomasochists, and a sundry of other “sexual orientations.” It was founded in 2002 by former New York publicist, Robert F. Coogan, who was ordained a priest for the Diocese of Saltillo by Bishop Vera López.

        Background on Bishop Vera López

        Somewhere between his birth on June 21, 1945, in the city of Acámbaro in the southeastern corner of the Mexican state of Guanajuato, and his ordination to the priesthood in Rome by Pope Paul VI and his being awarded a series of bishoprics from 1987 to 1999 by Pope John Paul II, Bishop Vera López must have found the clerical goose that laid the golden egg. His ascent up the hierarchical career ladder appears to have been rapid and seamless.

        Three years after his installation in Saltillo, the Dominican political activist bishop formally took up the cause of “Gay Liberation.” His growing reputation as a pro-homosexual apologist, earned him a speaker’s spot at the 15th Anniversary National Association Of Catholic Diocesan Lesbian And Gay Ministries (renamed the Catholic Association for Lesbian and Gay Ministry) held in Long Beach, California in 2008, and an invitation by the Archdiocese of Los Angeles to appear on a panel titled “Gay and Lesbian Catholics: Church Teaching and Pastoral Approaches” at one of Cardinal Roger Mahony’s notorious Religious Education gigs in March 2010. [1]

        Bishop Vera López has been an open promoter of “civil unions” legislation and extended legal benefits for homosexuals in the State of Coahuila, but has “drawn the line” at homosexual “marriages.” He is a vehement opponent of “homophobia” which he states needs to be erased from peoples’ hearts. He believes that “gays” are victims of discrimination and societal marginalization.

        The Dominican prelate backs the pro-homosexual functions and projects of the San Elredo Comunidad including its participation in “Gay Pride” celebrations, and has welcomed to his diocese homosexual activists like British ex-Dominican James Alison.

        According to Alison, who makes his regular rounds to Catholic “gay parishes” in the United States including Most Holy Redeemer in the Castro District of San Francisco, “Church authority has become aware that the advent of ‘matters gay’ in recent years may not primarily center on sexual ethics at all. Rather, it concerns an emerging anthropological truth about a regular, normal and non-pathological variant within the human condition.” [2]

        Continued: http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/engel/110426

        • Jay

          eyesclosedshut: you failed to mention that a large majority of children molested, were molested by homosexual/pedophiles in the Catholic faith. Key words here: homosexual/pedophiles.

      • Daylo

        As you well know, I didn’t “fail to mention” anything. I assure you the person that committed this horrendous sexual perversion against a young boy was neither Catholic, nor Christian. So you USE my post as a segue-way to bring religion into the conversation so that you can further demoralize YOUR pet peeve, religion. People ALWAYS defend what they WANT whether it’s moral, illegal or unethical by blaming the evils of it on something else, i.e. religion.

        Quit being a sneak and dragging Christianity or even the Catholic church into the main topic of homosexuality. We already know those things go on in EVERY denomination and faith. Not one faith or one denomination is any more guilty than another, but to bring those two particular ones into the conversation to divert attention away from the real culprit, the evils of homosexuality, is sneaky and low. I don’t fall for that kind of drivel. Just man up and be real. It is what it is, pure and simple EVIL.

  • Hughze

    Looks to me like it would be a good plan to start electing the head of the Department of Justice like most states do.

  • Kaleidescope

    I am waiting for people to realize that this would also mean that Sharia law that allows polygamy would also be required to be ‘accepted’ in America.

  • Song

    Oh boy, the Sh** is about to hit the fan. Watch out Christians, there’s a firestorm coming thanks to this latest tragedy out of Norway.

    • Karolyn

      Why? Because the perpetrator is a conservative Christian? It just goes to show that liberals do not have a corner on the violence market like some conservatives like to harp on.

      • Song

        Why do you think Karolyn? Do you not read comments from other posters like Alex and Denniso just to name a few? Just watch and see the hyperbole and vitriole from the left at this one. They are going to have a “hey day” And btw: since when do you get to choose consequences Karolyn? Surely you are smarter than that…but then again…

        • eyeswideopen

          Song, you just don’t get it do you? Christians aren’t perfect,sconservatives are not always right, that is the main thing most of the liberals want you to realize. So when the radicals on this site, spew hate and can’t even be civil with other Americans, it drives them crazy. Most of the people on this site put the right wingers on a pedestal, acting as though they have all the answers and have never made mistakes. They do this by denying the facts and ignoring history while spewing hatred for their brothers. Why is it so hard for you to accept that Christianity has a lot of perverts, radicals, and narrow minded individuals?

          • Jay

            Personally, I believe that the methods of Communist influence are both direct and indirect today.  The pedophila scandal in the Catholic Church could not have happened without years of subversion and the co-opting of useful idiots as enablers.  And, without a doubt, the same dark forces (liberal/communist/socialist) which engineered this perversion in the seminaries and parishes then decried all of it as corruption in the Church. As for the incident in Norway, what better way to undermine and besmirch the reputation of Christianity, while at the same time destroying the faith of many, then to wear the Christian label, while committing atrocities in the name of Christianity. This is nothing more than clever communist tactics. These irreligious mongrels understand well that in order to convert a nation ti its ideology, it must first undermine and destroy Christianity, the anchor of this nation. What better way, could there be, then to infiltrate and subvert from within! This should be obvious, even to a donkey!

          • GregS

            eyeswideopen says:

            “Most of the people on this site put the right wingers on a pedestal, acting as though they have all the answers…”

            “…that is the main thing most of the liberals want you to realize.”

            Yeah, right! So, the liberals are all-knowing. Is that what you’re saying??? Who’s putting whom “on a pedestal,” Eyes?

            Your comments show clearly that it’s the liberals who are putting themselves on that pedestal! It’s also known as ARROGANCE!

          • Song

            eyes that little vapid tirade of your just earned you a big “whatever”. What a joke you are.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Song,
            “EYES” was labeled such a goof ball here that she left us for about 8 or 9 months!! If she goes back to her/his old ways, what you have seen here lately isn’t anything!! Just keep watching! I kept calling her eyesweldedshut, eyesgluedshut, eyesclampedshut, oh and one of my personal faves was eyesdumbedshut!!! ‘Course, I saw the light and now I just call her eyes. I just wish she would use them!!

          • GregS

            Excellent post, Joe! LOL!

          • Karolyn

            Yeah, Jay, everything’s a conspiracy. why can’t things be taken at face value?

          • Jay

            You mean, why can’t everybody just be gullible?

      • Karolyn

        It’s just logical, Song, that if you choose something, you in turn choose the consquences that go along with it.

        • Song

          Okay Karolyn, then why all the upset when the consequences aren’t what you want them to be, like getting aides from a deviant lifestyle or getting pregnant from casual sex? Seems like an awful lot of people want to make choices without giving any thought to the consequences and then believe that they should not have to suffer the consequences, don’t you think? I call that moral relativism of which you are a shining example. Irregardless of the consequence, you and millions of others want to make choices and not have to suffer any consequences.

          • Karolyn

            When those consequences are engineered by others with their own agenda, that is another story and is something that can be changed.

          • Karolyn

            I have always accepted the consequences of my actions and never blamed anyone else. Consequences are what help us to change and grow.

          • Song

            Like I said, consequences according to YOUR own dictate. Very amusing Karolyn. Moral relativism at its finest.

  • http://n/a Joseph

    What do you expect from Obama. He is GAY.

  • jopa

    Jay;What I was saying in the above post is that I feel that you may be gay and crying out for help.It is very common for gays in the closet to attack gays that have gone public such as Larry Craig.Myself, no not gay but about as straight as one could be.I do have some gay friends even some conservatives are friends.I think if you were a little kinder to Karolyn she could send you some literature or find other ways to help.Being nasty is not nice.

    • Jay

      jopa, I’m not attacking gays. You are much to sensitive. What I’m doing is exposing the sinister agenda behind the gay movement, there is a difference. As to your armchair phycology, that, one who disapproves of the homosexual lifestyle is in truth a closet homosexual, conversely, your analytical brainstorm could be inverted to say, all who approve of the homosexual lifestyle are themselves closet homos. You say you are as straight as can be, but one wonders why you feel the need to state that? Who are you trying to convince, me, or yourself? Personally I don’t care what you are, as you have to live with it, not me. You say you have gay friends in the manner as one would display a badge of honour, big whoop tee dooo! As well, you offer me literature that may offer some help. Are you trying to tell us something? Have you unknowingly revealed something about yourself and the way you came to grips with your new self-discovery? Don’t be ashamed jopa, remember, you were born that way!

  • jopa

    Jay;You just seem in your posts to have some sort of obsession with homosexuality.It seems as though your outer surface is being peeled away to reveal your true identity.As for the literature I think Karolyn works professionally in these matters and could possibly help you if you feel the need and if you were a little nicer to her she might consider helping you.Wishing you the best good friend.

    • Jay

      jopa, in case you haven’t noticed, this thread deals with the issue of homosexual, same-sex marriage, so naturally, we are discussing the homosexual lifestyle and how, in particular, same-sex marriage, may, or is, impacting society. Despite that fact, you seem to insist on sharing your fantasy, or perhaps, your hopes, that I may be homosexual. Unfortunately for you, jopa, I’m not. However, it is possible that there may be someone else on this site who is, and the two of you could perhaps meet in private, for a sordid rendezvous. May you succeed in your search, and may you find the one that will make you happy! And always remember jopa, and never be ashamed of the fact that you were “born that way.” As an after thought, perhaps you and your significant other, should you find one, could play the song “born this way”, at your same-sex, marriage ceremony! See, I’m a nice guy. How could you accuse me of hating gays? Would someone who hates gays wish you such happiness?

  • http://hemp.to/ hemp

    …Gay marriage – the nays still have itCharlie Butts – OneNewsNow – 6 2 2010 5 00 00 AM A recent Gallup poll shows a slight increase in the number of Americans expressing approval for homosexual marriage. The poll shows that of the 1 029 Americans surveyed 53 percent oppose homosexual marriage which is the same figure reported in 2007. Meanwhile 44 percent support it. I think one thing that this poll shows is that despite a massive propaganda campaign pushed by the homosexual activist lobby by the Obama administration and liberals in Congress an impressive majority of Americans still understand that marriage is as marriage has always been — between a man and a woman — and that the notion of so-called same-sex marriage is ridiculous comments Matt Barber director of cultural affairs for …He believes that when homosexual marriage is on the radar — or in other words when it is being strongly pushed by the media — polls show stronger opposition to it.

  • http://Liberty.org Debbi

    My thoughts which most of you will not agree with. First, God says that we are not to judge others but we (Christians, people who follow and study God’s word, we who have turned our ways from the world. Joining a church, being a Catholic, Luthern or otherwise does not make you a Christian.) The first commandment of the new covenant is to Love the Lord your God with all your essence and to love your neighbor as yourself. There are explicit instructions in the Bible for true believers about turning from old ways, that would include alcoholism, adultry, lying, stealing and ANY lifestyle that is not of God. If you are a true believer it is plainly stated in the Word that God created Adam and it says that he was lonely so he created a woman for Adam. He didn’t create another man but a woman. There are places in the Bible that says men that lay with men and women that lay with women are an abomination to God. I would take this to mean that this type of lifestyle is considered wrong in Gods eyes. I don’t claim to understand why the same sex is attracted to the same sex. It is a mystery to me but I do love my neighbors. It will be for God to judge and not me but that doesn’t mean that as a Christian I accept what I believe to be wrong. If I do accept it then I am of this world not just passing through. In Malachi it states that God, Jehovah doesn’t change even as the world changes. People who do not believe in the Bible or take it out of context will never accept a believers view and vice versa. But I will say that I truly believe that a “true” believer will not hate a homosexual but will allow God to judge everyone. God is displeased with people who run around on each other and sleep around too….And I really must say that just because people don’t agree with homosexuality doesn’t make them homophobic….phobic means to be afraid and most people are not afraid of homosexuals. I do not believe any of this has a place in the school system and I do believe that laws must be passed that keep law suits down that can be taken against people that have a religious belief against this…not for hatred but for reverence for our God.

  • jopa

    Jay;If you are trying to hit on me you are knocking on the wrong door.Happily married for over 25 years and I don’t even know your music describing that you were”born that way”.Perhaps for now you are in a Bad Romance but perhaps sooner than you think your friend may be all Gaga for you again.

    • Jay

      jopa, you suck at debate. But to be fair, its rather obvious English is not your first language. It pains me to watch you struggle, trying as best you can, to construct a coherent statement! All i can say is, keep trying…

      • http://naver samurai

        Ha, ha, ha, ha! Well said, fellow patriot! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

Bottom
close[X]

Sign Up For Personal Liberty Digest™!

PL Badge

Welcome to PersonalLiberty.com,
America's #1 Source for Libertarian News!

To join our group of freedom-loving individuals and to get alerts as well as late-breaking conservative news from Personal Liberty Digest™...

Privacy PolicyYou can opt out at any time. We protect your information like a mother hen. We will not sell or rent your email address to anyone for any reason.