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No Viable Substitute For Oil, Gas

September 14, 2011 by  

No Viable Substitute For Oil, Gas

A couple of years ago, former oil maverick T. Boone Pickens launched an $82 million national advertising campaign to promote the Pickens Plan, an energy policy aimed at reducing the American addiction to foreign oil.

The public gobbled up the TV and print ads, along with the stories Pickens told. His tour even included appearances before Congress and town hall meetings.

Pickens’ message to America: “I’ve been an oilman my entire life, but this is one emergency we can’t drill our way out of.”

Pickens’ age-spotted hands still scribble futuristic plans on old blackboards. Even though he is in his 80s, it hasn’t stopped Pickens from hammering home his message: We are at the mercy of peak oil (the point in time at which the world has reached the maximum production rate of petroleum); and, because of that, the United States is vulnerable to Muslims, mullahs and sheiks.

In the 20th century, Pickens built one of the U.S.’s largest independent oil companies, Mesa Petroleum. Later, he became a successful entrepreneur and then a media darling. Today, Pickens wields power through his energy fund, BP Capital. With it he champions new energy policies to replace petroleum, yesterday’s fuel, which Pickens claims will only further enslave and bankrupt America.

Pickens faces only one problem: There is no viable substitute for oil and gas — at least not yet.

But that is no bother to people like Pickens who have always liked cash more than crude.

That is the conclusion of Robert Bryce in his 2010 book, Power Hungry: The Myths Of “Green” Energy And The Real Fuels Of The Future:

All the blather about ‘green’ has fostered the delusion that we can get our energy on the cheap without any environmental impacts at all. Again, that’s just not true.  Sure, the idea of wind turbines might have a certain charm, and arrays of solar panels might make our cities and towns look like settings for science-fiction films. And if only we could just get a few coal-fired power plants to belch a rainbow every once in a while, they might look kind of pretty, too. But the hard truth is that energy production is not pretty, cheap or easy.

I was reading about Pickens while I was on vacation last month in Kingston, Ontario. Kingston is Toronto’s poorer cousin. It is located at the intersection of the St. Lawrence River and Lake Ontario. Just a few miles from Kingston is the Wolfe Island wind facility, the site of 86 gigantic wind turbines. That gives Kingston the second-largest wind-generated energy station in Canada. There was just one problem the day my wife, Angie, and I were there: The wind wasn’t blowing.

Those hulking windmills stood motionless. I don’t know how the city and the surrounding area got its energy that day, but it wasn’t from the wind.

At a nearby park I talked to an old-timer who told me he hated the propeller monstrosities, that they had ruined what had once been a picturesque shoreline.

“Bird killers, that’s what those things are,” said the man wearing a faded Toronto Blue Jays cap.

That caught my attention. Just last year, the Greens were gloating over the conviction of Syncrude Canada Ltd., which was slapped with a $2.9 million penalty after 1,600 ducks died in a company tailings pond in 2008.

The Financial Post indicated that in just the first eight months of operation, the Wolfe Island windmills killed nearly 2,000 birds and bats. “Such numbers earned wind power generators the moniker ‘Cuisinarts of the Air,’” according to the Post.

Yet there was no indictment against the windmill operators on Wolfe Island. It seems that as long as Green machines are doing the killing, it really isn’t a big deal.

An Inconvenient Truth

Men like Pickens and former Vice President Al Gore don’t seem bothered by such setbacks, at least when the end goal is saving the planet. They and the liberals are willing to bet your money and future on renewable energy — and with good reason: The profit potential for them is enormous.

Between now and 2030, the International Energy Agency expects that $5.5 trillion will be spent on renewable energy products. After all is said and done, renewable energy could produce 10 percent of the world’s primary energy needs.

Two key phrases in that last paragraph are “could” and “$5.5 trillion dollars.”

I have a minor in geology and have yet to spend a single day working for an oil and gas company. But I am willing to bet that if you give me $5.5 trillion, I can generate a lot more than 10 percent of the world’s energy needs in the next 19 years.

Why am I so confident about what I can do with more than $5 trillion? Consider that Exxon Mobil Corp., the world’s biggest publicly traded oil company, spends about $5 billion per year on new exploration projects. If it can replace its oil by spending $100 billion over the next two decades, I bet I can do better with $5 trillion.

Yet Greens keep selling their ideas. No matter how silly some renewable energy idea sounds, investors and the Federal government are hell-bent on backing it. Forget that we are in a recession and may be headed for a depression. Forget that real unemployment is 16 or 17 percent. Forget massive trade and budget deficits. The only thing that seems important is that fossil fuels are bad and going Green is good.

This mantra is repeated for two reasons:

  1. Being Green gets votes. People love the “save the planet” candidate.
  2. If you are pro-environment, you have a good chance of getting rich with few questions asked. Bernie Madoff’s mistake wasn’t that he was a crook. It was that he was an old-fashioned crook. If he had conned people into building windmills and solar panels, Al Gore would probably have hosted a dinner for him.

My Father’s Dying Dream

It is easy to hate Big Oil, and it isn’t hard to dislike some of the people in the business. I suppose that is why some Personal Liberty Digest® readers have accused me of being pro-petroleum. So I want to share this story with you about my father, Vern, and how he spent the last year of his life.

My father was hoping that America had found a way out of its energy predicament. He was 78 years old, and he had been diagnosed with two primary cancers. He had come a long way from the farm boy that graduated with a gold medal in geology in 1930. He had earned the opportunity to cover the great oil booms: first in North America and then in the Middle East. The Petroleum Age made him wealthy and famous.

Yet he continued to hope that inventors would come up with an alternative to fossil fuels. Even though he was ill, he attended the renowned press conference given by Martin Fleischmann and Stanley Pons in 1989, a presentation on their experiments with cold fusion. The two scientists promised that they had discovered a limitless and inexhaustible source of clean energy requiring only seawater as fuel.

My dad died a few months after attending that conference. Until the end, he hoped those two men held the key to a better and cleaner future.

I, too, hope for that future. But until I see something better than the false promises by the likes of Gore and Pickens, I am going to continue to be an advocate for petroleum.

Yours in good times and bad,

John Myers
Editor, Myers’ Energy & Gold Report

John Myers

is editor of Myers’ Energy and Gold Report. The son of C.V. Myers, the original publisher of Oilweek Magazine, John has worked with two of the world’s largest investment publishers, Phillips and Agora. He was the original editor for Outstanding Investments and has more than 20 years experience as an investment writer. John is a graduate of the University of Calgary. He has worked for Prudential Securities in Spokane, Wash., as a registered investment advisor. His office location in Calgary, Alberta, is just minutes away from the headquarters of some of the biggest players in today’s energy markets. This gives him personal access to everyone from oil CEOs to roughnecks, where he learns secrets from oil insiders he passes on to his subscribers. Plus, during his years in Spokane he cultivated a network of relationships with mining insiders in Idaho, Oregon and Washington.

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  • s c

    Did anyone ever get a straight answer from global warming’s high priest [Al 'duh' Gore] concerning how much money he had invested in Occidental Petroleum? You see, Big Al can’t ever completely divorce himself from Big Oil. Maybe the global warming insanity is his way of trying to atone for having been deeply invested in “BIG OIL.”
    That being said, Pickens can afford to lose his asterisk on a p r campaign for wind power. If a country isn’t ready for wholesale investment in wind power, it’s not ready – period. And, it shouldn’t have to be said that if an incompetent prez isn’t enough of a windbag to promote it, that’s tough cookies, booby.
    Only now are Obummer’s insane green power “investing” experiments making headlines. Can it be that our ‘sainted’ media has a hard time being objective? Whatever it is, Pickens can fend for himself. Gore needs longer vacations than Obummer, and Obummer needs to return to Chicago, where he can take a back seat to Rahmbo, and let Rahmbo do the driving on the way to an Illinois-style disaster.

    • DaveH

      Like most Politicians, Al Gore is feathering his own nest at the taxpayers’ and consumers’ expense in a major way:
      http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/03/business/energy-environment/03gore.html

      Got to hand it to the guy, he’s being very “transparent”.

      • skip

        Jimmy Carter was so on the mark back in the 70s, but no one listened. We can’t be beholden to the Middle East and OPEC for our energy needs. There is going to be a major mess in the Middle East in the near term because of our total inability to defuse the Israeli-Palestinian issue, and we will not be able to go to war against the entirety of that region without resorting to nuclear weapons. So we had best get energy independent in our area – and that means North America only – as soon as possible, perhaps by the end of 2001!

        • Old Henry

          Skip:

          We have the resources to be energy indepenent, and could be right now if we had begun doing so back in the 90s.

          We have the likes of Clinton, Gore throwing up barriers and now we have Little Barry the communist Kenyan Muslim who has brought it to perfection.

          • USAF VET

            There are natural gas, and oil deposites all over this country and right offshore. Our problem is these “Greenies” who want to keep us dependant on foreign oil, along with the polititians in Federal and State Gov’t who have no idea about how to drill safely, and do everything they can to block any exploration and drilling.

        • Thor

          While I can agree with much of your sentiment, skip, I gotta say that Jimmy Carter has never been right about anything in his life–with the sole exception of an idea he borrowed from someone else. While we have our own oil reserves and ‘other means’ of our own; there is some wisdom in ‘using theirs before we use ours’ when dealing with a non-renewable resource–at least until such time as an absolutely reliable replacement is found.

          • USAF VET

            If we start bringing in oil and gas from our own sites, you will see the price of petroleum product drop considerably in the United States. Plus OPEC would have to lower their prices to be competative. Plus the fact that the Gov’t has made many of our oil producing sites shut down because of the crying of the Greenies.

        • john j

          You are right Skip , that’s the only way we can begin to pull ourselves out of this giant hole we’ve put ourselves into . And we must try to do it with “American” owned oil companies . I can’t believe at least opening up drilling wasn’t in odipstick’s jobs speech . I can’t believe there’s any way he has anything more than disdain for this country !

          • deanbob

            Oil and gas drilling jobs would have been in Obama’s speech if he really wanted to create the maximum number of jobs. But, it seems he is more insterested in spending the US into the ground.

        • Lost in Paradise

          I think we are almost there with a mess in the middle east, and I welcome the use of nukes to obliterate those damn rag heads.

          • eddie47d

            Then pull out of the Middle East and develop the many alternatives we have going on in this nation. Spend the trillions of dollars here instead of over there.

          • DaveH

            And we wonder why they hate us so?

        • Jim O

          Yeah! And JIMMY CARTER formed the Department of Energy with the specific purpose of getting off the “oil standard” for energy. Let’s see, they’ve had over 30 years to do this. Why not save some money and disband the DoE.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Jim O,
            The government is not interested in saving money, only spending it! Did you see the report on the tornado shelters FEMA built in Ala. after the storms? the schools can buy them if they have the money but if they don’t have the money to buy them from FEMA then FEMA will give them more money to TEAR THEM DOWN!!! Now, does this make ANY sense to anybody here??

        • John

          Jimmy Carter wasn’t the only one who made that kind of statement nor was he the first. The past 8 Presidents or so each have said the same thing… and none of them have really done anything about it.

          • skip

            So it is far past time. What is wrong, guys, with using energy besides oil, etc? I don’t see why anyone would be against any reasonable alternative energy source. Sun is forever; thermal might be; wind perhaps unsightly, but not as unsightly as smog. As we mine the earth for oil and gas and coal, just don’t rip it to shreds – take a look at what China has done to its environment, or Russia the Aral Sea. Or the great BP oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico. We can’t really reverse those messes.

    • David

      No worries. If the elections last night are any indication….obummer has his own party to contend with. 2012 isn’t that far away. We will fix this country and neuter the Al Gores….

      • Old Henry

        David:

        2012 may not be that far away, but it is several lifetimes in politics.

        We must not let the NY special election to to our heads and as DaveH has pointed out in the past, we must keep our eye on the ball. And that ball is Ron Paul.

        • Capitalist at Birth

          Ron Paul has no chance of getting the Republicnan Nomination. What are you going to do when I am proven correct?

          • DaveH

            Keep on Hoping and Dreaming, Capitalist. In Spite of the MSM doing their best to suppress Ron Paul, his support is growing steadily. He wins the majority of the Straw Polls. But he has very low recognition among the Mainstream Americans. If Ron Paul doesn’t win, it is only because the MSM has once again worked their magic by depriving the average TV addicted coach potato from learning about Ron Paul’s agenda.
            See here for some reality:
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_polls_for_the_Republican_Party_presidential_primaries,_2012#Cumulative_Results_through_August_27.2C_2011

          • DaveH

            What are we going to do if you’re proven correct, Capitalist? I guess live with it, like we have been for most of our lives. You can lead people to the water, but you can’t make them drink.
            If Ron Paul doesn’t get the nomination, maybe he will run as an independent, or (if it isn’t too late) as a Libertarian. Wouldn’t that be fun? The Media Moguls will be having conniption fits trying to silence him.
            People are waking up, Capitalist, and try as you might it’s not going to be so easy to put the Genie back into the bottle.

          • Old Henry

            Capitalist:

            For a supposed capitalist you certainly negative thinking.

            I would think that being a capitalist you would eagerly get behind a candidate like Dr. Paul who believes in freedon and liberty to be / do the best you can.

            Just remember, NO ONE can win if we DO NOT vote for them.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Capitalist,
            What are we gonna do IF you are proven wrong?? As we have done in the last three years, we will suffer!! the whole country will suffer and it will be due to nay sayers like yourself!!

        • Doug

          Henry, I hate to dissapoint you. Ron Paul is anti-Israel and God will
          not bless his run for President. Genesis 12:1-3. Read it!!!!! Sorry

          • DaveH

            You are anti-American, Doug.

          • Old Henry

            Doug:

            God seems to have blessed the most anti-semetic we have ever had in our WH – Little Barry the communist MUSLIM.

            How do you explain that one?

      • john j

        I don’t think the Dems. want the presidency next go around . Then odipstick will be more of a “bilp” on the map , and everything will seem more to be caused by “Republican” presidencies . Then , after everything is “cleaned up”, just like Regan’s admin. they can slide right in and waste , pillage and plunder , just like “good ol’ Clintonius did , and Bush took all the blame . There’s a guy that nobody “ever” blamed anything on , but he , I believe started the whole problem !!!

    • SMSgt Z retired Nam 68

      The Canadian Ice Service confirmed Friday that a southerly shipping route through Canada’s Arctic islands can now be safely navigated, though shifting winds could send ice floes into a key strait near Nunavut’s Victoria Island and complicate voyage through the Northwest Passage.

      Meanwhile, the U.S.-based National Snow and Ice Data Centre has made public data that show total Arctic ice is once again retreating below the 5-million-square-kilometre mark, meaning the five greatest melts since satellite measurements began in the late 1970s have occurred in the past five years.

      Read more: http://www.montrealgazette.com/technology/Arctic+retreat+reopens+Northwest+Passage/5315614/story.html#ixzz1XwD8Szgk

      • DaveH

        Maybe the Democratic Party can learn how to control the sun.

        • Ret

          Nah, it ain’t da sun. It dat windbag as was mentioned above. Wen da obummer blo all dat hot air, da ice gotta melt. Dat da troot.

        • Old Henry

          They have for their faithful after a fashion DaveH. It’s called a lot of smoke to screen it out and mirrors to reflect back any that may seep through…

      • denniso

        It’s the same old ‘clever’ strategy of the oil pushers…keep Americans using oil/gas/coal at a glutinous rate so we can then be assured that we can’t possibly do anything differently,like solar/wind energy,because we just have to use so much energy that it’s not possible. Meyers talks about the $80 million that Pickens spent to market/advertise wind power…Could he also tell us how much the fossil fuel industry has spent advertising their product,and how much they spend lobbying the federal and state govt’s to keep us addicted to oil? We can’t possibly do any better w/ conservation measures,like higher auto mileage standards either,can we?

        Meyers and others lament the loss of beautiful views to wind turbines…has he looked at the skies and air in every large city in the country? Has he noticed the loss of entire landscapes to smog around the country? What about the tens of thousands of Americans who become ill and die from air polution? No comment?

        Oil/gas/coal easily have the greatest negative impact on the environment and people,making ‘green’ energy look almost absolutely clean in comparison.

        • Dan az

          Well denny
          The truth is there is a better way to make energy but its not with solar and wind.Get your head out of the clouds and Al gores butt and look up the thorioum enrgy plants that are clean and viable they also use them in the subs and ships because they are that safe.But if you want to keep spending everyone’s money on something that will never work keep on hoping to change physics someday you might get it.But until that day comes your opinion really dosen’t matter much.

          • eddie47d

            Who says somebody elses money won’t be used for the development of thorium? Oil and gas get numerous tax breaks so in essence they too are dependent on other peoples money.ALL energy sources should be used and if thorium pans out then it should be encouraged. Solar does work so why do some who support oil harp on it’s usage.Everyone picks favorites and then feel they have to destroy opposing energy sources. Get them all in the mix including tide turbines.

          • Dan az

            Eddie
            Realistically They work but not to the extent that they would ever supply the nation with enough power EVER.If you covered the entire united states with panels they still would not supply enough power and even if you had the entire cost line filled up with wind generators it still would provide half of the needs.Thorium generators could though and be safer than any nuke plant they have now.The only side effect that I see is that the wasted nuclear rods that they cant get rid of would be used to start these generators and they wouldn’t have anything to cry about.bummer!Oil is going to be around for a very long time even if they say it isn’t because every thing that we make things out of is from oil.Every city on the planet can have one of these thorium generators because there is nothing in them that can be made into a bomb from.The spent fuel rods that start them degrade and are gone after they start it up.I read that they had one back east for about ten years and that they put them in the nuclear subs and ships.Why not open the market up and start putting them out there and reduce the amount of energy that we are using from oil?Let every country have them and the oil wars would stop!

          • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

            Dan az

            Both the Soviet Union and the United States were working on alternative energy sources.THORIUM WAS ONE OF THEM.
            global demand for energy and power. Thorium, a little … This alternative is thorium. Thorium is not new … doubt was cast on nuclear energy as a viable power source …

            http://www.ensec.org/…view=article&id=187:thorium…alternative&catid=94:0409content&Itemid=342

          • Dan az

            Coal
            They had the opportunity but the need the plutonium for their bombs so they invested in the other instead.Shame really but hey their the gubmnt and are here to help you!

        • DaveH

          It’s the same old ‘clever’ strategy of the Liberals. Make accusations about oil companies that are purely conjecture but appeal to the people who are motivated by envy rather than logic.
          If you don’t like Oil, Denniso, then you are free to throw away your money on alternative energy. Nobody here would attempt to stop you from that (except maybe some Controlling Liberals).
          If the auto makers could do better, without making their cars into smart-car deathtraps, or costing more in upfront expense then they ever save in fuel usage, or losing their customers, they would. It’s called the profit motive. If you and your Liberal cohorts don’t like their cars, buy from their competitors until they get the message. If their competitors aren’t making the cars which you think desirable, Denniso, then pool your money with your like-minded Liberals and start your own auto companies to produce the vehicles that you think will benefit people. Oh, but that wouldn’t be as fun as ramming your ways down the throats of unwilling participants, would it Denniso?
          Have you looked at the ground level, Denniso, in every large city, and witnessed the poverty which has resulted from your Big Government meddling in the Marketplace? Have you noticed that the countries with the dirtiest environments are the poor countries?
          Have you noticed, Denniso, that life-spans in this country are at all time highs? That smog you cite must be healthy.
          http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0005140.html

          The people making “green” energy that they lobby Government to force down our throats don’t look “clean” at all, Denniso. They look like the same old crooked businessmen, who the Liberals have been whining about for years, who lobby the Government for special protections so they can take advantage of their competitors, the consumers, and the taxpayers. But in this case, they get a free pass from Liberals because Liberals don’t have consistent Principles. Their Principles change with the wind to suit their selfish interests.

          • eddie47d

            Dave is making the same conjectures about the alternatives as he accuses Denniso of making about oil. Dave forgets that oil has been “rammed down our throats” for a century.They made sure fusion,thorium and other alternatives never took hold. That has made us more dependant on the Saudis so did you overlook that. I support the use of oil but big oil and yourself also have “selfish interests”. That keeps us embroiled in those foreign wars you never seem to like. I’m sure the candle maker got very upset when electricity was discovered and they lost business. Candles of coarse are still is use as is oil but there comes a time when it’s wise to move in another direction.

          • DaveH

            Eddie,
            I supply many links to informative articles for people to learn from.
            What do you supply? Mostly hot air. Maybe we can tap into that, Eddie, and save millions.

          • eddie47d

            Terrific answer DaveH. Brings out the genius in you every time. Don’t worry Dave I don’t make such claims that I know it all so save your breath.

          • denniso

            DaveH does waht anyone can do to bolster his position…post links to rightwing and anti science sites. Some people post youtube links and try to pass those off as credible. DaveH seldom,if ever,posts a link to a real scientific,economic or credible site. If he does then he picks and chooses what stats he wants to put forward,out of context.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            denniso,
            how long do they need to develope alternate sources? The dept of energy came about with Carter and all they have tried to develope is solar, doesn’t work well enough, wind, same problem, ethanol, costs too much to produce and cuts into food production, they don’t work!! The dam nopec knows that the US government is trying to restrict the use of oil and they demand a higher price. Develope and produce from our own sources and I guarantee you the price will tumble and a good number of the jobs will return as well!

          • DaveH

            Please keep posting, Denniso and Eddie. You are our Liberal poster boys. I think you guys have almost single handedly shown people that the “open-minded” and “intelligent” Liberals are anything but.

          • eddie47d

            Then stop peddling anti-science articles Dave. Honest! Not always.

          • denniso

            Is DaveH really defending air pollution because he has to stand up for the oil industry at all costs? Does DaveH,as a student of math,not understand that the reason our life span has gone up for the past 70 yrs is because we have conquered many childhood diseases that used to kill many kids and kept the life span average down. The other reason…we can keep older,very ill people alive w/ medicene,surgey and tubes for several yrs. People can live longer w/ emphyzema,lung cancer…diseases among others that result from toxic air. They push the life span average up as well,but are they very ‘alive’???

            Why would DaveH want to support the fossil fuel industry at the expense of support for the ‘green’ energies? Self interest? Stock portfolio?

        • Bruman

          Oil/gas/coal is green energy. Extracted right from mother earth, put to use by man. Don’t like using oil, gas, coal? Get rid of everything you own and live in a teepee. And don’t burn any wood to keep warm and cook your food, that makes too much of the evil co2.

          • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

            Dan az
            My link was broken.

            Thorium Energy Is Promising Green Alternative Energy Source To Uranium
            by admin .

            Thorium energy is actually a secure, green alternative power having a promising future. Thorium is actually a low-level, radio-active element inside the earth’s crust. Approximately four occasions extra abundant than uranium, thorium was discovered in 1828 by Jons Jacob Berzelius. Thorium’s symbol in the Periodic Table of Components is Th.

            When thorium is converted as an energy source it’s called LFTR and generally pronounced as lifter. LFTR is an acronym for Liquid Fluoride Thorium Reactor. When thorium is treated with a salt answer it really is turned into a liquid heat energy source which is really potent. LFTR is so effective and potent that it led Carlo Rubbia with the European Organization For Nuclear Study to say “A ton of thorium can produce as a lot power as 200 tons of uranium or as a lot as 3,500,000 tonnes of coal.”

            Secure Green Option Energy Source

            The physical properties of thorium are not conducive for extracting plutonium for nuclear proliferation. This makes for a considerably safer alternative to uranium. Also, thorium in its spent type has roughly only 1 to 2 percent from the volume of waste as uranium. This eliminates vast transportation resources which could in turn support stop a catastrophic accident in moving nuclear waste.

            Thorium energy is very clean which is yet another reason why several green alternative energy enthusiasts assistance LFTR. The process with the molten salt reactor makes for a clean, green alternative energy supply.

            Oakridge National Laboratory

            The Oakridge National Laboratory in Knoxville, TN actually had a working thorium power model way back inside the 1960′s. Sadly, due to the fact from the nuclear arms race, thorium was discredited due to the fact of its lack of plutonium proficiency. India is capitalizing on thorium having built a multi-billion dollar thorium energy plant. The Usa, Russia, China, France and Japan have spent millions on R & D concerning LFTR but lag behind India in actual production.

            The U.S.A. has an abundant thorium supply inside the earth’s crust with most of it being in northern Idaho and southern Montana. The bulk of this vast reserve is owned by Thorium Energy Inc.

            Financial Savings

            The financial savings to nations who switch or add the Liquid Fluoride Thorium Reactor to their current power program are substantial. Billions of dollars is often saved for the following reasons.

            1. Security: With virtually no threat of nuclear proliferation untold financial resources will be saved.
            2. Supply: Abundant resources lower cost in almost any endeavor.
            3. Storage: Minimal when compared to uranium.
            4. Transportation: Trucking and fuel related cost reduced due to the fact thorium’s efficiency of size scale.
            5. Fuel rods: Does not need nuclear fuel rods replaced. Uranium fuel rods heat up to potentially dangerous levels and must be replaced on a regular basis.
            6. Recycle: Thorium is often reused opposed to uranium.
            7. Present and future generations: Spared problems unforseen with uranium leakage into water reservoirs and natural habitat.

            Thorium – Abundant, Efficient & Safe Green Option Energy Supply

            If thorium is so abundant, efficient, safe and green then why aren’t we using it? This question may best be answered by a different question – and answer. Why is the world taking so long to switch from gas run to electric cars? For the reason that just like with energy, when a resource is cheap and abundant there is no outcry from the public. Once it hits the old pocket-book, which is when people complain. Sure, there are those of us who want to change simply because of environmental and security reasons also. But by and large it truly is the almighty dollar that speaks the loudest creating economies of scale for needed change.

            •Previous Entry: Less War With Alternative Energy
            •Next Entry: Renewable Energy – The Greener Energy Sources to Rely On

          • eddie47d

            Thanks again Coal Miner for some fresh air on the subject. These wonderful alternatives are piling up for our use so why aren’t the capitalists using their capital to capture these other sources. Maybe they are too embedded in the oil companies or that the oil companies are keeping them from being developed. We will always need energy and I’m sure there is a profit motivator in using Thorium so what are the excuses this time?

          • Dan az

            Thanks coal
            I had read that one before and misplaced it.When I went to your site it was dead so I was looking for another one.You saved me some time thanks.

        • http://What'sthis? Robert J. Stanton

          OK, I’m glad you feel that way!!! Now go live in the forest, desert or on a mountain top and don’t use any thing that comes from or by OIL… Not any synthetic fabric, tires made with butadiene, which is all modern tires, lubricants of all most any kind. Don’t ride on a train, bus, airplane, or GOD forbid an automobile. Don’t use any kind of battery as they exist only because of OIL and are transported to the store by truck using diesel. OH, for that matter, don’t go to ANY STORE, as they are supplied by TRUCKS. And lets not forget anything made with steel as it’s produced with carbon and sulfur and guess where that comes from, that’s right, from OIL!!!!! NOW, as I said befroe, go some where and live your life style of the DARK AGES, because without OIL and its byproducts, that the way you’ll be living and leave the OIL for the rest of us who don’t mnind using it!!!!!

          • Bob McCormick

            I think you made an important point without realizing it. You are onehundred percent correct, our modern life couldn’t exist without oil. Oil is not just for transportation and electric generation, everything from the clothes on your back to the pills you take to the laptop I am wasting my time with right now are made with oil. The inescapable fact is that we are now on the down slope in oil production, while we will not run out anytime soon the easy to get at oil is fast running out.

            So if we want to continue with the good life we damn well better stop wasting it.

        • Capitalist at Birth

          Solar energy is only practical in certain locales. Thus, making it impractical as a major source of ELECTRICITY. Wind Turbines kill Tens of Thousands of birds and bats, and disturb the wild life habitats. What good comes from that? It only works when the wind is blowing, and it requires and enormous amount of battery storage capacity if the electricity is not immediately used. Not to mention the real costs involved which are more than double the cost of coal fired electric plants. The replacement costs for the batteries in hybrid automobiles is more than double the replacement cost of an internal combustion engine. Where is all this money going to come from? Heaven? You are a complete and utter fool? Why do you come to this site and post your insane garbabe?

        • Old Henry

          denniso:

          If wind farms are so advantageous why did Ted Kennedy exert so much time, energy, $ on keeping one out of the Chesapeake Bay?

          Where do you get your figures regarding how many Americans get sick from air pollution? How is that number confirmed?

          • eddie47d

            There is now Wind Power off of Chesapeake Bay and also in Massachusetts. Time move on and people realize the sacrifices that all have to make in order to become energy independent.

          • JeffH

            “There is now Wind Power off of Chesapeake Bay”?

            I’ve read there were plans to build two offshore turbines by the end of 2012 for wind testing in Chesapeake Bay but I don’t believe there are any more scheduled until all of the testing and impact has been done.

          • Old Henry

            How long has the reprobate been sober eddie? Was it 2 years last month? That may explain the ridiculous eye sores.

            In a few years they will be towering piles of junk standing as a memorial to idiocy. The companies that put them up will be gone and it will be, once again, up to the taxpayers (if there are any left) to clean up after the greenies.

          • eddie47d

            That is true with most energy sources Old Henry. Also true with coal and other mining operations. Billions in taxes have been spent attempting to clean up the messes left by the mines and energy industries. So you could be correct but left the Bigger picture out of the equation.

        • Mike

          I think you missed the point of the article.

          The green energy movement has produced very little. I live near wind farms in southern california. They are a punchline for retirees living in Palm Springs. It’s a not a magic wand- even stuff that looks promising also has downsides like birdtrikes.

          The oil/gas/coal industry is here to stay. Where would society be without it? We’d be like NYC in the 1800s where they literally had to haul horse poo out of town to eliminate the fly problem.

          • Old Henry

            Mike:

            Where would we be without the oil / gas / coal industries?

            Right where Little Barry and his communist party want us. In the 18th Century where, in their opinion, we belong.

            Ya know Mike out west they used dry horse / cow / buffalo chips as fuel. Once again the eastern liberals demonstrated how ignorant and wasteful they really are…

          • eddie47d

            Alternative energy in the USA has nothing to do with the communist party so why do you trivialize this important issue with nonsense.

          • denniso

            Why is it that most rightwingers want to hold back progress? Why do they want to stick only w/ 19th century energy sources and resist the move toward what has to be a cleaner and more reliable energy future? Is it as simple as the politics of the issue,that they are owned by the fossil fuel industry and are gladly doing the dirty work for them? Trying to maintain the absolute maximum level of profits for the oil/gas/coal industries by fighting any move toward a more self sufficient country using energy produced right here from wind and solar.

            Aren’t you rightwing survivalist types who advocate stocking up on food and bullets interested in self sufficiency when it comes to energy? Put solar pannels on your roof and a small turbine in the backyard and tell the power company to take a hike,and be prepared for a time when the power goes down and you can’t buy gas for your stinking generator.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            denniso,
            there’s only one problem with your suggestion. Your fellow prog liberals who like to keep us under their thumb have put so many ordinances into place that a lot of communities will not allow turbines as they don’t “conform”!!! there’s a little problem calles snow here in Ohio that can pile up pretty quick, blocking even ambient light!!

          • Dan az

            Look dennso I have been off the grid for over 17 yrs now and would never go back.When you group us together and call us right wing fanatics what dose that say about you?I gave you a solution at the beginning of this article but I haven’t seen a reply one.So unless you really don’t want one then why bother us?

          • denniso

            Dan az…I called you people rightwingers,not fanatics,and it is true that most of you are fighting the advance of energy technology.

            Thorium? I don’t know,but I would make a guess that it’s also a cost issue. It’s probably way too expensive or it won’t work on a large scale. If it’s as good as some say then it’s hard to believe that somebody big isn’t pushing it harder.

            The rightwing and their fundamentalist bretheren want to stop progress…their penchant for buying gold,guns,dried food,and pushing fossil fuels as the only way show that clearly.

          • Dan az

            Dennso
            Read the article about how cheap they are to build.They didn’t want it because of the plutonium they needed for the bombs so they chose the ones that we have now.As far as everyone wants to go back to the old ways is BS and you know it.Solar and wind can’t and never will supply all the needs of today let alone the future.So spending billions on something that they know cant do the job just dosen’t make sense.The thorium reactor is the only thing that will solve the problems of today and the future and the cost is pennies compared to what they have now.Check it out!Do the research!

        • bill steffen

          bs alternatives out there make a statement and give up every vehicle you have that has an internal combustionYou sir are a moron I think… You and all the rest of the “Green Team” all own internal combustion engines. What happens when we can’t afford to run them? In the next hundred years their will be breakthroughs in alternative energy but for now we need oil. I will bet that you drive a car or a truck that runs off of gasoline or diesel. how about your boat or your motorcycle? When you can use them cause we can’t drill our own oil you will be among those crying and whining the loudest. If you are so sold on wind and solar and all the other BS alternatives out there make a statement and give up everything you own that runs off of internal combustion engine.

          • denniso

            Who are you talking to?? No one thinks we can just get off oil overnight. Wind and solar have been around for half a century and more,and you and the oil industry keep fighting them and saying the same thing over and over…all at the behest of the big industry puppet masters. Why won’t the rightwing agree to withdraw the billions in taxpayer subsidies for the oil and gas industry? Can’t they make it w/o your tax money? Do you think their multi billion $ profits are too small,and that they can’t afford to live the plush life they deserve if you stop giving them your money,beyond buying their products?

        • Hydra

          Vern Meyers had the right idea about the two guys with the salt water idea. Back in the 90s a California professor converted the old 70 model car he had to use salt water, and then tried to patton it. The feds shut him down. That scenario seems to say that the inventions are out there, but the feds will never allow “all of us” to have use of them. Who then would you say is really behind “Big Oil”?

          • Dan az

            Hydra
            I agree.I also saw on the news back in the seventies that this van was going to make a run from San Fran to NY non stop and when they showed what he planned for fuel it was cobalt and water, the same thing that they use to make acetylene,apparently he never made it there,he was bought off by big oil.So I’ve been told.

      • Dale on the left coast

        A window of 40 odd years in the BIG PICTURE means Nothing!!!
        Ice in the Artic in January and February has been above NORMAL . . . like the Polar Bears that have expanded their population by 500% since the 70′s . . . the enviro-whacks once again make it up as they boF!!!
        I understand that a Satelite cannot tell the difference from open water and ice with a few inches of water on it . . . .

      • Lost in Paradise

        The earth has gone through many different climate cycles, and this is just another part of that cycle. I do not believe we can do anything to stop it other than the destruction of the entire human race. The earth can take care of itself just fine as it has for eons, and it does not need us, as we are like fleas on a dog.

    • Roy Major

      Pickens is not recommending a complete transition to clean energy, but a transition to natural gas until a viable total transition is available.
      That being said, I believe we can make the transition when most needed. In the middle of the hot, sunny days of summer, solar is viable, and in the cold windy days and nights of winter, wind is quite viable.
      The true costs of dirty and dangerous fuels have not been fully calculated.

      • Lost in Paradise

        Niether has the cost of wind and solar, which have proven themselves to be totally impractical for a replacement. They can augment existing energy at best. It is not even a legit argument.

      • eddie47d

        Thanks Roy for encouraging alternatives and looking beyond the negative verbiage. Solar and Wind are indeed a piece of the energy pie and my hat off to those who use them.

      • Opal the Gem

        I read somewhere (and hope I could find it again) that to provide the energy needs of just Chicago you would have to completely cover the rest of Illinois with solar panels.

    • Old Henry

      s c:

      I think Algore is simply playing both ends against the middle (class) in order to enrich himself. It is typical liberalism / communism hypocracy: Do as I say, not as I do.

      If Pickens is so enamored with “green” then he should be spending his billions on research.

      Little Barry needs to be moved to Leavenworth, not Chi Ka Go. Keep that commie SOB out of Illinois. We already have more than our fair share.

    • eddie47d

      SC,so what if Al Gore is invested in oil or if anybody else is. Oil will be around for a long time and nobody is trying to totally shut down the oil business especially Al Gore. It’s all about weaning ourselves away from one major product, not abandoning it.

      • Dale on the left coast

        Fat Al’s father was in the “pocket” of Occidental Pet. Armand Hammer owned the Gore family. Everything that Al ever had came from Oil.
        Al is a fraud and a serial liar . . .

        • eddie47d

          Once again so what! If you are attacking Al Gore’s father for being an oil man or even Al Gore himself you are the flighty one. Al knows we are dependent on oil and he supports the use of oil. He also is smart enough to encourage the use of alternatives.

          • Dale on the left coast

            Al’s father was NOT an oil man . . . he was a BOUGHT and PAID for DImmicrap SENATOR . . . doing the bidding of Hammer . . . much like the relationship between the current WH resident and Soros . . .

          • eddie47d

            Allot of people who invest heavily in oil stocks or the oil business are not oil men per say but the oil companies depend on their collateral to get the job done. That being said if those capitalist (Al father) is ripping this nation off then have at them. I’ll give you that leeway.

      • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

        eddie47d
        A geologist not too long ago said that in Jackson County,Kentucky there may be enough oil to last three thousnd years.Where? In Jackson County, kentucky?At the bottom of a water hole,known as the Blue Hole.Blue Hole is extremely dangerous and treacherous water hole, for millions of years it sucks down leaves,animals and people.Oil is a by product of animals.The old saying,(“There is black gold in them there water hole”). The depth of this charybdis is unknown.Even if we do find the correct depth,how do we extract the oil?At the present we don’t have the technology.Oil is still a valuable commodity and it’s going to be around for a long time.

        • Old Henry

          coal miner:

          We don’t have the technology? Ever heard of drilling? And it sounds like a good place to put liberals to work. We could also have Little Barry and the Teleprompter stand real close giving speaches. We could solve a number of problems.

          • eddie47d

            Straight for the negative, right Henry! We know there is oil in Tennessee and probably Kentucky didn’t you watch the Beverly Hillbillies? LOL Now do you know for sure if a drilling rig can reach the bottom of the Blue Hole? Has it been tried?

          • Dan az

            Eddie
            The oil the is under Kentucky is the same vain that spilled in the gulf.Its one of the richest vain’s there is.It extends clear down to venezuela and can be tapped on ground rather than 50 miles out into the gulf.But the inviro’s wont have anything to do with that so its not going to happen.

          • Old Henry

            No eddie. Actually that would all be for the positive.

    • http://yahoo olerocker

      Gore tells us that the oceans will rise due to the ice bergs melting, so he buys a house twenty feet above the ocean front high dollar home he just bought……now if he would only take a glass, add lots of ice, fill it up with his favorite drink, let the ice melt, he would discover how wrong he is…….the level does not change and the glass does not over flow….hmmmmmmm

      • eddie47d

        That’s a good point but not the whole picture. If all the ice in Greenland melted the sea level would indeed rise or if ice sheets broke off from land in Antarctica.

        • Dale on the left coast

          Last January . . . the Ice in the Arctic was above Normal!!!
          Last spring saw the biggest flow of icebergs down the Labrador coast in memory . . . was this because they had a “Shortage” of Ice???

          Antartic . . . a year or two back it gained 788,000 sq. km of ice during the southern winter. Ice breaking off in Antartic . . . was a small peninsula, the most northerly point of the continent . . . where many underwater geysers warm the water . . . thus causeing the Regional Melt!!!

          Get informed . . . old fat Al Movie talking points are nonsense!!!

          • eddie47d

            Thanks for proving my point Dale. That “iceberg” off of Labrador did indeed slide off of Greenland which did add to the big puddle.

        • Old Henry

          Well eddie, that might work out well for DaveH, Danaz, Al and some others here as they could quite possibly have ocean front property. We would also rid outselves of millions of liberals and illegal Mexes next door in Mexifornia…

          • eddie47d

            You only get a C+ for being on the Conservative comedy circuit.

          • Dan az

            I think he gets a A eddie!

      • Bob McCormick

        What about all the land based glaciers.
        HOW LONG CAN YOU TREAD WATER

        • Karolyn

          Have you seen how much of the glaciers has melted?

      • Lost in Paradise

        Hahahahaha LMAO how correct you are.

    • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

      ssc

      Are you an expert on energy?Alternative energies?Oh let me guess.You another Sarah Palin.

      • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

        I forgot the are.

  • http://none BAP362

    John do you know what the Pickens plan was. His plan does entail the use of natural gas. He wants all the electric generating plants to stop using natural gas to make electricity, but to create electricity from wind farms. Then we take all the natural gas saved from not using it for natural gas and we use it to run our transportatin needs thereby stopping all the imports of petroleum. Cars and trucks would no longer run on gasoline or diesel, but natural gas which we have in abundance since we now can produce so much more of it out of new and currently known deposits.

    • Capitalist at Birth

      Yeah, and Pickens is heavily invested in Natural Gas. He is a shameless promoter to make himself richer. I would not buy anything he is promoting.

      • eddie47d

        No natural gas in your home? What is your source of heat if I may ask?

        • JeffH

          hmmm, possibly electicity or maybe even wood, methane gas, solar, wind,coal or kerosene…just sayin’ not every home in America relies on or uses natural gas. Some well known alternative fuels include biodiesel, bioalcohol (methanol, ethanol, butanol), chemically stored electricity (batteries and fuel cells), hydrogen, non-fossil methane, non-fossil natural gas, vegetable oil, and other biomass sources.

          • Dan az

            Hey what about LP thats all I use besides wood!

          • Old Henry

            JeffH::

            Just think how much biodiesel could be produced if Michael Moore had lipo suction? MIght even dramatically affect the price of soy beans. Then he could put a couple of those nasty capitalist farmers out of business.

          • JeffH

            OH, you just made me spill my coffee…yer killin’ me.

          • Dan az

            Old Henry
            He would probably smell like old french fries and burgers.Or worse! ;)

          • eddie47d

            What! You’re not dead already. LOL… Chill out and have another cup of coffee on me …if you spill it then I reckon it would be on you.

          • JeffH

            eddie is such an adult and master of the english language.

            Here are a few “eddie-isms” and lies from Eddie47D.

            In response to: that a man’s home is his castle only until the city condemns it so a politician’s developer-crony can build a high tax-paying shopping mall there (which would be for “the public good”),
            Eddie says:
            August 19, 2011 at 12:11 pm
            “Developers are liberals condemning homes ”Please Jeff stop cracking me up. Do you ever have an original thought in that noggin of yours?

            August 19, 2011 at 7:01 pm
            Just admit you have a learning disability Jeff. I promise I won’t hold that part against you. Now you are telling me that the builders and owners of shopping malls are liberals. That the Liberals are taking away your land to build homes or malls

            August 19, 2011 at 11:15 pm
            The problem is Buster that it’s not the Liberals that are the ones confiscating the land . It’s Conservative land developers and big time contractors. **** is full of it and you bought into it.

            Eddie makes excuses for his obvious gaff:
            August 20, 2011 at 10:58 pm
            I said that to mock you conservatives who are on your high horse. As per usual you had trouble grasping that Dave, Jana and Jeff H. I see Jana is trying her hand at mocking also. Are you the 3rd wheel in Jeff and Dave’s marching band?

            Eddie being stupid again:
            August 19, 2011 at 7:04 pm
            That must mean your shoe size has doubled since you arrived on this site ****. Is that to give them room for your exaggerations?

            August 19, 2011 at 11:17 pm
            Go back to supporting those bank robbers on Wall Street ****. They need you back for spin master.

            Karolyn says “Why is it that so many conservatives just want to ship everybody who disagrees with them to a Communist country? Can’t handle disagreement?”
            In response JeffH says
            : If they talk like a communist and walk like a communist…then maybe a communist country would be better suited to their beliefs…again, just sayin’…

            Eddie chimes in with another lie:
            August 19, 2011 at 7:27 pm
            If someone is not a Libertarian (according to Jeff and maybe Jana)they have to be a communist. There is certainly nothing wrong with being a Libertarian except for the arrogance that flows from some of it’s members mouths.

            Then he make a ludicrous assumption and speaks another lie:
            August 19, 2011 at 11:26 pm
            If you all want to tell Liberals to move to Cuba then own up to it and stop pretending it isn’t on top of your fantasy list.

            August 20, 2011 at 11:06 pm
            You are a sad pathetic little man Jeff. Was it a bad childhood?

            In another comment that DaveH had no participation in, Eddie decides to arbitrarily attack DaveH without provocation:
            August 19, 2011 at 7:52 pm
            I heard Dave H. talking but Jeff’s lips are moving. Hint; We have heard it all about crony Capitalism from Dave H. OH!… about 50 times.

            After that response? Again remember that DaveH was never in this conversation eddies goes on whith this looney question:
            August 20, 2011 at 11:14 pm
            I see Dave H ducked out in answering that one. Hey Jeff go back to sleep!

            After all of that Eddie’s follow-up is an outright lie which he vehemently denied.
            August 20, 2011 at 11:25 pm
            We do see Jeff and Dave H. making personal threats (mostly mocking) against those they disagree with. That is everyday right Dave?

            Of course the response to Eddie’s lie was:
            Eddie47d is a Liar and a Slanderer.
            Anybody who reads enough of his comments knows that he makes up his “facts” out of whole cloth.

            Then Eddie starts his lying again…total denial.
            August 21, 2011 at 11:39 am
            Dave H can be a liar and a slanderer.As a matter of fact Jeff can also be a liar and a slanderer. You keep on doing it so I will assume the rest of us will have to put up with your occasional “fib”. I love when Dave says he didn’t say something when the words are right there in print. I may be misinterpreted in what I say but I won’t say that it wasn’t my words like Dave does.

            Of course, this question will remain unanswered by Eddie – Can Easy-E can substantiate these allegations with great detail and credibility?
            Absolutley not! Your(Eddie’s) constant lack of details and facts only renders your opinions and reputation as “discreditable”.

            *Then Eddie goes on with an attempt to re-direct and deflect the focus away from his obvious lie with more shameless and idiotic comments
            August 22, 2011 at 8:09 am
            The only shameless ones here is Jeff and Jana out patrolling the streets. Thought patrol anyone? Very creepy!!

            eddie then says
            August 21, 2011 at 5:08 pm
            Can you substantiate my apparent lies Jeff? WE are all waiting with baiting breath to see what you can come up with next. Your wild accusations are like a cannon ball rolling down a hill looking for a place to land. You are either obsessed or mentally unstable.

            In response to Eddies denial of being a liar DaveH posted this comment which openly confirmed Eddie’s lie:
            August 21, 2011 at 1:49 pm
            You said this, Eddie, you lying slanderer — “We do see Jeff and Dave H. making personal threats (mostly mocking) against those they disagree with. That is everyday right Dave?”.
            Here is the link to the comment where Eddie said that:
            http://www.personalliberty.com/conservative-politics/government/downgrading-obama/#comment-524269
            I’m saying you are a liar. That is a fact. When you lie about somebody, the burden is on you to prove your statement, Ignoramus. You made a false statement, and I’m calling you out. If you’re not lying it is as simple as finding one of my comments that backs up that statement. You won’t because it doesn’t exist. And you know it, you sick Troll.
            ___________________________________________
            I’ll remind everyone once more…in an independent poll asking if Eddie47D was believable over another poster…the finall tally was 20 – 0, twenty to zero in favor of the other poster. Not one other “liberal or progressive stepped up to defend or support eddie.
            Eddie47D has zero credibility and zero believability on this website.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            JeffH,
            I cut my usage of gas by almost half with wood. I put an insert in my fireplace with a blower. I have almost four cords of wood and it didn’t cost me a cent!! I cut trees for my friends for free and I take the wood. Had a few people call me that paid me well for taking them down and they still saved a lot! I don’t cut them near any lines houses, or anything else that could get wrecked! works very well for me!

          • eddie47d

            Go back to shooting immigrants on the border Jeff for you sure missed your target here with your latest whining!Poor little Jeffy!Add that to your collection Beavis or was that Butthead??

        • Dan az

          Hey Joe
          Getting paid for cutting fire wood and keeping it,Now that’s a good job!If you could teach the neighbor kids how to split it even better! :)

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Dan az,
            My kids do it for me!!! Their boyfriends, as well!!

    • home boy

      and the long term future to natural gas is hydrogen. exxon/mobil already has cars running on hydrogen. the big problem is infastructure and that’s where the government has to get envolved other wise we can’t push forward with these ideas.

      • DanB

        Do I laugh or cry???

        Government is the problem. Not the solution. Did you know that some of what you are talking about has been around for YEARS? I have known of vehicles that run on hydrogen for some time. First I heard of it, I thought hydrogen powered cars and trucks were something of the distant future. Imagine my surprise when I realized that they were all around me. Not in any great numbers. Just a few here and there, but none of us were the wiser for it.

        So what happened since government has been focusing more and on the “green” economy? Well, these hydrogen powered cars and trucks seem to have nearly disappeared. So did government help or hurt the industry? What so many others who believe that government creates problems instead of solving might realize is that government funding distorts the markets. So also with green technology research and investing. The hydrogen cars and trucks of the past have been forgotten while people talk about the hydrogen cars of the future based on some new technology that has yet to be proven. In short, when the skeptics say that the green economy is really a scam to make select government cronies rich, they are right.

        And having government build the infrastructure? So you trust a private economy to build gas stations and support the energy needs of a vast interstate transportation industry, but when it comes to green energy it has to be government? Let me in you a basic concept that seems to be eluding you. The private industry WOULD build the infrastructure if a couple conditions are met. One, we the people were actually using it. Two, it was profitable. So in summary, the reason you MUST have government build the infrastructure is because it is NOT profitable, and you ARE NOT driving it (or you are the only one who is). Did you know that before government meddling, there was a growing, albeit small, infrastructure for hydrogen powered vehicles. Strangely, since government has been promoting all this green tech and mandating standards for our vehicles, it seems like even the infrastructure for hydrogen cars and trucks has withered up and disappeared. So how’s that government intervention moving the green industry forward? I propose that is moving the green industry, but moving it backwards.

        • eddie47d

          How is the government “sabotaging” hydrogen cars? Where are the private investors for your hydrogen cars? I thought if something was so great and is viable and the government stayed out of it’s way then the product would flourish. You have just proved that theory wrong.

          • DanB

            I guess you weren’t reading either.

            They existed. They were a small market. It was slowly growing. Perhaps it would have died on its own. But it wasn’t the technology that got government grants. It was not the sort of thing that generated popular press for the politicians to excite the “green” vote.

            So it is possible that it could have just died on its own. Not profitable. It also possible that government money distorted and altered the markets.

            Let me try and keep it simple for you.

            If I am an investor and there are two paths to develop, which should I choose?

            Path 1: practical, long term plan, slow growth. Probability of failure is high, but you won’t know until you’ve spent a lot of money. Very little you can copyright as most technology already exists. Will probably see little to no returns for the first five years, and it could be sucking money longer than that before a profit is realized. And, there is no press opportunities here. No one will recognize your accomplishments. No political backing. If you fail, you fail alone and forgotten.

            Path 2: untested, unproven, long term plan. Probability of failure is high. Spend a lot of other people’s money with government guarantees on the loans. So your personal risk is minimal at most. You will make a lot of money before you have any market share, possibly before even having a marketable product. Lots of press. Lots of recognition. Political connections (useful for the future). If you fail, you will be recognized as an innovator and sought after in other ventures or leverage for future employ, book deals, etc..

            Let me see. Which path should I choose? Both offer the risk of failure. But path #2 has all these perks. Coincidentally the biggest perk of them all is that government money. I can take those wages home in the first year alone, when on option #1 I could be still spending (investing) during the first five years or more. What a drastic difference!

            So did the hydrogen vehicles of the past disappear because they were a failure, or did government alter the system and choose them to fail?

            See the same rule applies to the infrastructure investor. So if I am thinking about building hydrogen fueling depots, I have to consider not only the government regulations I would have to abide by, but the biggest factor is what sort of fueling station do I build in the first place? How will they be filled? How do I store it? Where do I get the hydrogen? So many questions that need to be answered. Well, if I see a small industry with a few hundred hydrogen cars and trucks compared to government throwing hundred of billions at future hydrogen tech, perhaps I should wait for the government hydrogen tech instead of building for a system that will be obsolete in just a few years. In essence, the hydrogen vehicles that existed had a government mandate for obsolescence.

            Of course, people talk about the future with hydrogen powered cars, but I learned a lesson from the past ones. Something that I wonder how many people realize. Hydrogen is DANGEROUS, and government safety regulations and mandates will make it ridiculously expensive to operate. That is the real reason you will have to use government funds to build the infrastructure. Because those with enough savvy to invest, and actually look at the difference between costs of storing, transporting, and fueling hydrogen vehicles will know that government cannot help itself from regulating the safety until it is just too expensive to operate that infrastructure. The only way to survive such a financial gamble is if they have a way out from day one, an escape path, should something go wrong. And the best escape path they can find is to be politically connected to the green movement, but mostly to the politics side of the movement.

            Of course, the greatest irony will be that if hydrogen does become a legal fuel, then it will become a lot easier for terrorists to build a deadly bomb. All they would have to do is siphon some fuel from a car or two. It wouldn’t be atomic, but hydrogen burns with a fair bit of energy itself. Or maybe they just replace the standard fuel tank with all its safety features to prevent you from blowing up with a custom tank without safety features and give a whole new meaning to car bombs. They might not have to load the car with traditional explosives. Imagine using dogs to sniff out the explosives then when both the car bomb and the car next to it both use hydrogen. And once that happens, instant new regulations on the size of your car’s fuel tank, might be a mandatory recall that you to pay to get your car outfitted with some new device to prevent such tampering or add additional monitoring that government can use to track your fueling habits….

            Nope. I still stand by the idea that government is sending green energy research backwards, not forwards.

          • Dan az

            Dan
            That’s food for thought! I’m not sure if it could be done but it would be a major problem if it could!Good post!

          • Old Henry

            Well Dan / Dan, I think there is a high probability that the whole thing was shelved until Big Ag can buy up all the hydrogen farms…

          • eddie47d

            Basically what Dan B is saying is that hydrogen is so dangerous that it is not feasible. With or without government help.

    • JAB

      Hydrogen is currently not economical compared to the cost of using oil. When its cost per unit of power can be reduced to the level of oil and gasoline, it will be economical also to build the infrastructure to distribute it.

      • Identity Thief

        Stanley Meyer had numerous patents and developed a fuel cell that ran a car on water! He mysteriously died while eating at a restaurant. The government was interested in his technology as well as the oil industry. Hmmmm? I wonder why he died?
        [This commenter posted as DaveH and has been banned]

        • DaveH

          Who are you and why are you using my ID?
          Bob Livingston, would you check into this?

        • DaveH

          Please note, Folks, that the Conspiracy Theorist is not me. Of all the possible IDs he chose mine, and that is after I had already made a post (under SC’s post), so it couldn’t possibly have been just an oversight. I think some Liberal clown is trying to discredit me.

          • Al Sieber

            I knew that wasn’t you it sounded really far fetched, besides you always provide a link.

          • DaveH

            Thank you, Al. I do wish Bob would set up a system to preclude clowns like whoever the guy is from playing games with our IDs.

          • Dan az

            Dave
            Did you notice that this started as soon as dennso showed up?

          • DaveH

            My bet would be EyesWideOpen, Dan, if I had to bet.

          • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

            Dear DaveH,

            The identity thief is not any of the people blamed in this thread. It was a new commenter. The person has been banned for violating the terms of use policy.

            I believe the accused are owed an apology.

            Best wishes,
            Bob

          • Dan az

            Bob L
            I agree I gave dennso to much credit and I am sorry!

          • DaveH

            Thank you, Bob. I very much appreciate that.

          • JeffH

            DaveH, those of us that know you see right through these fakers…not the first time it’s happened and not the last time it will happen. Thank’s to Bob Livingston and PLD for recognizing and taking action!

        • Old Henry

          Jovianus snuck back in!

          • eddie47d

            Conspiracies abound!

    • Scott Meenen

      We have more than enough natural gas and it is a great fuel, Americans simply have a religious facination with putting the nozzle in the hole. At one time Washington Gas had over 20 CNG fueling stations and a whole fleet of vehicles (long before Pickens), they now have 1. Baltimore Gas and Electric had 5 stations and a fleet of vehicles and they now have none.

      So who are really the bad guys.

  • http://none BAP362

    ohn do you know what the Pickens plan was. His plan does entail the use of natural gas. He wants all the electric generating plants to stop using natural gas to make electricity, but to create electricity from wind farms. Then we take all the natural gas saved from not using it for generating electricity and we use it to run our transportatin needs thereby stopping all the imports of petroleum. Cars and trucks would no longer run on gasoline or diesel, but natural gas which we have in abundance since we now can produce so much more of it out of new and currently known deposits.

    • David

      Natural gas and eventually hydrogen…..but it will take time to build the fueling stations. Heck if they keep selling those green electric cars we will need more fossil fuel power plants to keep them going :0)

    • DaveH

      If wind-generators and natural gas are the efficient solution to our problems, the companies will invest and risk their own monies in those efforts. Only when technologies are not cost-effective or desirable to consumers must they lobby Government to subsidize them or protect them from other alternatives with regulations, tariffs, or other such devices.
      Free Markets (which we are far away from) are the best determiners of which products are truly the best.

      • eddie47d

        Free Markets are great and government should have a limited roll. Yet you consistently take on government as the bad guy without having any value. The train system was heavily subsidised by the government and helped it to flourish over a hundred years ago. That opened up the whole West and much opportunity. In the 50′s no homeowner or business could afford the massive Interstate system. It was also hard to get around many parts of the country before the Interstate. Would it have been built without the government? I highly doubt it yet it created building opportunities for thousands of hotel and motel owners and construction workers. Americans bought more cars and got out to see America. Which created thousands of more tourist related jobs. Are you against all those jobs that were created through government assistance? That was 60 years ago and people still travel and restaurants and hotels are everywhere. It was a building boom that keeps on giving and creating jobs except for those living in a cave.

        • DaveH

          Those who believe, like Eddie, that Railroads needed subsidies to be created need to read this article:
          http://mises.org/daily/2317

          As for the rest of Eddie’s comment, he offers much conjecture, but no supported facts.
          Eddie asks “Are you against all those jobs that were created through government assistance?”. Answer — No Eddie, but are you against all the jobs that would have been created more productively if the Private sector wasn’t being pillaged by Big Government? We can see with our own eyes the results of Government involvement in the Marketplace — The Post Office, Social Security, Medicare, The Department of Energy (it was supposed to make us energy independent when created 30 years ago. are we there yet?), the Education Department, etc. All of them failures.

          • Old Henry

            DaveH:

            As I am sure you are aware, the Interstate system was created by Eisnehower to aid the miltary in deploying weapons and armament in case the Ruskies attacked.

            The Interstate system obliterated millions upon millions of acres of farm land that we could now use. The Interstate system also helped to systemically change our national culture. It bu-passed thousands of small towns and turned many into ghost towns.

            In the long run I think that the Interstate system did more damage than good.

            We had the early “Interstate” system known as US Routes that went thru small towns and helped them flurish and helped maintain the Americana of our nation.

            Maybe I’m showing my age, but we have become a total nation of strangers.

          • eddie47d

            Henry; How many of those small towns would still exist and be able to absorb the millions of Americans this nations now has. Those small towns would now have huge traffic problems and numerous buildings would have been tore down to accommodate the new growth. Thus taking up farmland. What do you think happened to other cities. Same problem as they expanded.

          • Dan az

            Actually Eddie
            You do have a point.I live in one of those cities that was bypassed and with the amount of ten wheelers it would not happen.But like in the old days we would solve the problem and move on unlike today.Growth is inevitable but their plans to toll booth the roads to pay for them is just BS and you know it.If they get their way they will tax every breath you take.So do we just sit by and wait for it to happen?We need all sides to fight this crap,what say you?

          • eddie47d

            The problem with that Dan is that private contractors who build highways (such as in Colorado) put in toll roads to pay for the costs. There is little getting around the problem if a road is needed. Taxes or Tolls.

        • eddie47d

          I see Dave tiptoed around the Interstate issue.I don’t need any links for common sense about growth in this country.Did it not create opportunities for commerce and growth?

  • mart

    Are you stupid or something. Yes you can spend that money on getting oil (perhaps replacing 10%) but it’s NOT RENEWABLE. Once you use it it’s GONE.
    GEEZ…how old are you exactly that something so basic needs to be explained to you??

    • Capitalist at Birth

      Oil, Coal, and Natural Gas are being created all of the time. Why do you think there are new discoveries every year? Is that not renewable.

      • mart

        I did not say they are not found. I am saying that fossil fuels by definition are not renewable. You mine them, you use the, they are gone. You need to mine more.
        It’s pretty simple. Not sure why I have to explain this to you.
        It appears most of the posts are by people who have no clue about this thing. If you don’t know the difference between renewable and non-renewable energy go back do some reading then maybe you will be in position to discuss this topic intelligently. Most of the posts here don’t even know the basics unfortunately…

        • http://anasaziusmc@gmail.com Jim

          Mart, You are to full of yourself. The issues are very plain, but using derogatory language isn’t solving the problem. Neither are the greens….

        • Nadzieja Batki

          What other purpose is their for oil and gas and minerals to exist in nature if not to use them for the good of our survival?
          So instead of finding and using those natural resources,maybe we should just take samples and make shrines to them and worship them. How stupid can your reasoning be.

        • Dan az

          mart
          The facts are that you aren’t aware that the oil that had been extracted did replace its self.If you don’t believe me check it out for your self.The theory that it came from dinosaurs and plant life was proven wrong along time ago.Before you accuse people of ignorance then I would check your theory first before making such a fool statement.

        • Dale on the left coast

          Oil is “abiotic” . . . there has been much research done by some scientists. Search abiotic oil and read some of the research. Oil is believed to be created in the core of the earth. Oil has no DNA . . . therefore it is not a “Fossil” fuel. Know North American oil reserves could supply us for the next 100 years. Natural gas reserves could last several centuries.
          There is NOTHING to replace Oil Tomorrow . . . windmills are a JOKE!!! They are an eyesore. Someday . . . alternate affordable energy sources will be discovered . . . probably several decades away.

          • eddie47d

            “Windmills are a joke”? Oil wells are also an eyesore so are they also a joke.

      • mart

        “created all the time”
        let me guess – you must also believe that God created the earth in a week and that dinosaurs existed 5 thousand years ago

        • Al Sieber

          Oil is not fossil fuel, it does not come from dinosaurs but is created in the earth naturally through a combination of processes.

        • s c

          M, you brought it up, so let’s explore the topic a bit. Dinosaurs can still be found. They tend to take up valuable space in Congress, most are utterly useless, and they should be caged.
          They are not to be trusted, and they will find ways to literally consume you and your family if they’re given the chance. So which type of dinosaur do you think will evolve and become our saviors? Even Darwin would have a tough time accepting the dinosaurs we’re expected to tolerate.

          • Al Sieber

            Good one S C.

          • Ret

            Bravo.

            Perhaps ignoring idiots will make them go away.

            Using someone else’s ID is absolutely disgusting. Probably an illegal who uses others’ IDs, for food stamps, health care etc., and takes jobs he has no right to. It’s a way of life. Honesty, integrity? Yeah right.

      • Doc Sarvis

        New discoveries all the time is because we have not looked EVERYWHERE. We find small amounts and are using it up faster than ever!

        • Dan az

          Wow Doc I hope you don’t do surgery on anyone with that kind of knowledge I would bet its just a doctorate and not in science.

          • Capitalist at Birth

            P.H.D. in B.S. would be my guess.

          • DaveH

            I think it’s probably a nickname he got from sitting at the docks all day fishing on the taxpayers’ dime. lol.

          • Dan az

            :) :)

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Capitalist,
            would that P H D stand for
            i i e
            l g e
            e h p
            d e e
            r r?????????

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Oh well guess that failed PHD means Piled Higher N Deeper!!!

        • eddie47d

          Why does Dave always insist that everyone else is either not working or is on the taxpayer dime? Libertarian humor?? You need some new material Dave.Yes we know that you are the only one who ever did a lick of work.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Yeah, we know eddie does, too!! He babysits and pays a lot of taxes!!!

          • DaveH

            Poor kids. Eddie must have set them back at least a couple of years.

    • DaveH

      Mart,
      How old are you that you are so ignorant? Even if oil will be depleted someday, the intelligent thing to do is build our wealth and let smart operators offer alternatives when the depletion starts occurring and oil prices start increasing.
      To force the usage of inefficient alternative energies before that time is just plain foolish. Impoverishing our nation is not a solution.

      • eddie47d

        I think oil has been up for quite some time now Dave. The right time should have been 40 years ago and those who don’t look for alternatives are the ones impoverishing this nation.

        • http://?? Joe H.

          you mea like our government?? Look at our corn crop this year. due to the drought it is real short so our food prices are gonna climb again!! But don’t stop producing ethanol using……..CORN!!!

  • Pat Bright

    We should be utilizing ALL available resources.Oil is still King and we should be drilling and obtaining energy self-sufficientcy and NOT be sending money to our enemys. I do believe that the answer to future energy problems is Hydrogen. With 75% of the world covered by oceans extraction of energy from water is the way to go. I would suggest the folowing:
    1.Have private energy companies working with State and local governments build hydrogen extraction facilities in States with lots of ocean access and lots of sunshine.( State participation,free land and permitting only)In return the energy companies would convert all state vehicles to run on hydrogen at no cost to the State.
    2. The facilities could be solar powered in Florida, Texas, Alabama and Louisiana.
    3. Converting sea water to hydrogen and supplying power for transportation, replacing gasoline and diesel fuel over time , thus allowing time for the country to slowly convert from fossil fuels to hydrogen
    4. By combining two alternative fuel sources to produce one in large volume, would equate to a win, win, situation.

    • mart

      “sending money to our enemies”
      Would those enemies be Canada and Mexico because that is where US oil comes from primarily and not the middle east….

      • Doc Sarvis

        A lot of people on this site would claim that Mexico is our enemy.

      • Pat Bright

        Enemies would be defined as our middle eastern suppliers. Canada is a good ally, however I would tell Mexico to keep there oil until they re-patriate all of there citizens illegally residing within our borders.

      • Dan az

        mart mart mart
        down boy how old did you say you where?

        • JeffH

          :)

    • DaveH

      Perhaps, Pat, the hydrogen could be separated from water by solar power, but at what cost? It costs money to build solar panels. It takes energy to build solar panels. Solar panels typically take up a lot of real estate. Solar panels fields are an eyesore to many people. The Liberals in fact would have been the first to complain if somebody else proposed such). What happens when the solar panels start failing and need to be disposed of? Will that be the next great Liberal outcry?
      The Free Markets are best at answering those kinds of questions rather than leaving them in the hands of self-serving, often corrupt Politicians.
      For anybody considering the Hydrogen energy route, please read this:
      http://www.cato.org/pubs/briefs/bp90.pdf

      • Dan az

        Good link Dave Depressing but still good to know!

    • eddie47d

      I like Pat’s Bright ideas. Keep them coming.

      • DaveH

        Your endorsement, Eddie, is about as bad as could happen to Pat.

      • eddie47d

        Only a ignorant person would say that. Now I will take that as you being against her suggestions.

        • JeffH

          Hmmm, what does endorsement mean?
          this is for those that are to ignorant to comprehend or don’t understand the use of the word endorsement…

          endorsement – definition
          1. public support: public support for somebody or something
          2. advertising testimonial: an instance of public approval of a product for advertising purposes
          3. official approval or permission: official approval of or permission for something

          comrehend – definition
          1.understand: to grasp the meaning or nature of something

        • DaveH

          I spoke plain English, Eddie. Apparently that is not your native tongue.

          • eddie47d

            I don’t have a slick sliver tongue like you Dave.

  • Henry Ledbetter

    Israel is the only one I know of that makes solar work well. They use the heat trapped in the saline dead sea to turn water into steam and run turbines to produce electricity. Only problem I see is that not all of us have a dead sea as a solar trap. Much of the energy we use could be used more efficiently just by applying a little common sense and logic.. Only problem with that is a scarcity if common sense.

  • SMSgt Z retired Nam 68

    John take the blinders of big oil off. It’s true the wind does not blow and the sun does not shine every day but there is a renewable energy source that produces fuel every day.What is this remarkable untapped resource for lack of a better word it’s POOP. That’s correct ladies and gentleman the byproduct of the ingestion of food by every animal on this planet produces this energy resource.Farmers have been using manure to create methane gas for years. GE is building the worlds largest Anaerobic Digester in China.On the Chesapeake Bay plants are planned for the chicken industry there which will help return the Bay’s shell fish industry.World wide Anaerobic Digester’s are being built.So John take off the blinders

    • DaveH

      Sgt,
      If poop is an efficient source of energy, one smart entrepreneur or another will tap into that money-maker without any Government involvement. That’s the beauty of Free Markets, the “greed” factor drives people to risk their reputations, their money, and their time looking for a way to make profit.
      Government comes into play only when people want to risk Other Peoples’ Money on not-too-promising ventures.

      • SMSgt Z retired Nam 68

        How wrong and unenlightened

        • DaveH

          Did you even read my comment before you pooh-poohed it Sgt? Please point out to me what I said that was “wrong and unenlightened”.

        • DaveH

          Instead of launching useless personal attacks, Sgt, why don’t you spend some time reading and educate yourself?
          http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-280.html

          • eddie47d

            Then practice what you preach and stop launching personal attacks against the Sgt or myself.

          • JeffH

            DaveH, just can’t shake that hypocritical bzzzzzzzzzzzzzz from your ear.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            DaveH,
            If methane is so good then the government SHOULD get into it! With all the BS Washington D.C. produces in one session, we could be energy independent in one year!!! With them, it would be renewable, too!!

          • SMSgt Z retired Nam 68

            Cato Institute is no place to be educated due to who the major supporters Thanks anyway

            According to its annual report, the Cato Institute had fiscal year 2008 income of $24 million. The report notes that 77% of Cato’s income that year came from individual contributions, 13% from foundations, 2% from corporations, and 8% from “program and other income”

          • DaveH

            So, let me get this straight, Sgt. You determine the worth of somebody’s logic by who writes their paycheck?
            No wonder the Liberals are in trouble.

      • KKuurus

        DaveH SGT’s idea is methane. The system is called a digester, you dump the wastes into a hole and cap it with something, mostly concrete at present, the cap forces the gases given off into pipes and you have methane gas for cooking etc… look them up under India and digester. Not a viable source that I can see for a major city.

        • SMSgt Z retired Nam 68

          WRONG AGAIN

          JENBACH, Austria–Wednesday, May 05, 2010–Helping to alleviate China’s energy shortage, GE’s (NYSE: GE) ecomagination-approved Jenbacher biogas engines will power the new Liaoning Huishan Cow Farm, which, once completed, will become world’s largest biogas project based on cow manure.

          The manure from the 250,000 cows at the Huishan farm, located in Shenyang, China, will be converted into biogas and is expected to produce 38,000 MWh a year through four GE JMS420 Jenbacher gas engines. The energy generated will be sold to the state grid in China.

        • Dan az

          KKuurus
          The whole Idea stinks!Cant imagine what the cities would smell like,then again a fart comes to mind! :)

          • SMSgt Z retired Nam 68

            Google Geneco if you dare

  • SJvet

    Without petroleum we have no plastics, no cell phones, no LCD TVs, no aspirin or other pharmaceuticals, and many other petroleum derivatives. We have enough untapped oil in the U.S. to last hundreds of years.

    • Doc Sarvis

      You said; “We have enough untapped oil in the U.S. to last hundreds of years.” Not at the rate we are using it up.

      • Nadzieja Batki

        You defeat your own reasoning since you are posting on your computer, parts of which are made of plastic which was at one time oil which was once seepage of decomposing organic materials (rotted animals, humans, and plants).

        • Doc Sarvis

          Like I said, we are using them up.

          • Bruman

            Yep, and the sun is using up it’s nuclear fuel to. What happens when it’s all gone? I would think mankind could come up with a replacement for green earth fuels in a couple hundred years, And we will probably be able to move off the earth when the sun runs out of it’s fuel in a few billion years. (If we make it that far)

          • Nadzieja Batki

            Not for a long,long time.

          • Dale on the left coast

            Doc . . . how could we be using up “Untapped Oil” in the US when we haven’t even found it yet??? The loon in the WH shut down most exploration and drilling . . . making the US dependent on foreign suppliers.
            There are enough known oil reserves in North America for about a 100 years . . . by then, real alternate energy sources will be developed . . . wind and solar may run the cabin at the lake . . . but will not power a modern industrial city.

          • eddie47d

            Dale says the loon in the W H has made us dependent on foreign oil. More stale propaganda! Where have you been for the last 50 years Dale? That is about as loony as Bruman saying that the sun is going to burn out.

      • DaveH

        When, or if, the oil is used up, Doc, it won’t happen overnight. When the shortages start appearing prices will go up (in a Free Market) until it then becomes economical to buy alternative sources of energy. The smart people will wait for that instead of angering large portions of the population by forcing them to pay more (much more) for alternative energies.
        Someday, Doc, maybe you can enlighten me as to the reason that Liberals feel the need to Force their ways on the rest of us?

    • SMSgt Z retired Nam 68

      HEMP HISTORY FACTS Hemp the answer to oil?

      *Hemp has been grown for at least the last 12,000 years for fiber (textiles and paper) and food. It has been effectively prohibited in the United States since the 1950s.

      *George Washington and Thomas Jefferson both grew hemp. Ben Franklin owned a mill that made hemp paper. Jefferson drafted the Declaration of Independence on hemp paper.

      *When US sources of “Manila hemp” (not true hemp) was cut off by the Japanese in WWII, the US Army and US Department of Agriculture promoted the “Hemp for Victory” campaign to grow hemp in the US.

      *Because of its importance for sails (the word “canvass” is rooted in “cannabis”) and rope for ships, hemp was a required crop in the American colonies.

      INDUSTRY FACTS

      *Henry Ford experimented with hemp to build car bodies. He wanted to build and fuel cars from farm products.

      *BMW is experimenting with hemp materials in automobiles as part of an effort to make cars more recyclable.

      *Much of the bird seed sold in the US has hemp seed (it’s sterilized before importation), the hulls of which contain about 25% protein.

      *Hemp oil once greased machines. Most paints, resins, shellacs, and varnishes used to be made out of linseed (from flax) and hemp oils.

      *Rudolph Diesel designed his engine to run on hemp oil.

      *Kimberly Clark (on the Fortune 500) has a mill in France which produces hemp paper preferred for bibles because it lasts a very long time and doesn’t yellow.

      *Construction products such as medium density fiber board, oriented strand board, and even beams, studs and posts could be made out of hemp. Because of hemp’s long fibers, the products will be stronger and/or lighter than those made from wood.

      *The products that can be made from hemp number over 25,000.

      SCIENTIFIC FACTS

      *Industrial hemp and marijuana are both classified by taxonomists as Cannabis sativa, a species with hundreds of varieties. C. sativa is a member of the mulberry family. Industrial hemp is bred to maximize fiber, seed and/or oil, while marijuana varieties seek to maximize THC (delta 9 tetrahydrocannabinol, the primary psychoactive ingredient in marijuana).

      *While industrial hemp and marijuana may look somewhat alike to an untrained eye, an easily trained eye can easily distinguish the difference.

      *Industrial hemp has a THC content of between 0.05 and 1%. Marijuana has a THC content of 3% to 20%. To receive a standard psychoactive dose would require a person to power-smoke 10-12 hemp cigarettes over an extremely short period of time. The large volume and high temperature of vapor, gas and smoke would be almost impossible for a person to withstand.

      *If hemp does pollinate any nearby marijuana, genetically, the result will always be lower-THC marijuana, not higher-THC hemp. If hemp is grown outdoors, marijuana will not be grown close by to avoid producing lower-grade marijuana.

      *Hemp fibers are longer, stronger, more absorbent and more mildew-resistant than cotton.

      *Fabrics made of at least one-half hemp block the sun’s UV rays more effectively than other fabrics.

      *Many of the varieties of hemp that were grown in North America have been lost. Seed banks weren’t maintained. New genetic breeding will be necessary using both foreign and domestic “ditchweed,” strains of hemp that went feral after cultivation ended. Various state national guard units often spend their weekends trying to eradicate this hemp, in the mistaken belief they are helping stop drug use.

      *A 1938 Popular Mechanics described hemp as a “New Billion Dollar Crop.” That’s back when a billion was real money.

      *Hemp can be made in to a variety of fabrics, including linen quality.

      LEGAL FACTS

      *The US Drug Enforcement Agency classifies all C. sativa varieties as “marijuana.” While it is theoretically possible to get permission from the government to grow hemp, DEA would require that the field be secured by fence, razor wire, dogs, guards, and lights, making it cost-prohibitive.

      *The US State Department must certify each year that a foreign nation is cooperating in the war on drugs. The European Union subsidizes its farmers to grow industrial hemp. Those nations are not on this list, because the State Department can tell the difference between hemp and marijuana.

      *Hemp was grown commercially (with increasing governmental interference) in the United States until the 1950s. It was doomed by the Marijuana Tax Act of 1937, which placed an extremely high tax on marijuana and made it effectively impossible to grow industrial hemp. While Congress expressly expected the continued production of industrial hemp, the Federal Bureau of Narcotics lumped industrial hemp with marijuana, as it’s successor the US Drug Enforcement Administration, does to this day.

      *Over 30 industrialized democracies do distinguish hemp from marijuana. International treaties regarding marijuana make an exception for industrial hemp.

      *Canada now again allows the growing of hemp.

      ECOLOGY FACTS

      * Hemp growers can not hide marijuana plants in their fields. Marijuana is grown widely spaced to maximize leaves. Hemp is grown in tightly-spaced rows to maximize stalk and is usually harvested before it goes to seed.

      *Hemp can be made into fine quality paper. The long fibers in hemp allow such paper to be recycled several times more than wood-based paper.

      *Because of its low lignin content, hemp can be pulped using less chemicals than with wood. Its natural brightness can obviate the need to use chlorine bleach, which means no extremely toxic dioxin being dumped into streams. A kinder and gentler chemistry using hydrogen peroxide rather than chlorine dixoide is possible with hemp fibers.

      *Hemp grows well in a variety of climates and soil types. It is naturally resistant to most pests, precluding the need for pesticides. It grows tightly spaced, out-competing any weeds, so herbicides are not necessary. It also leaves a weed-free field for a following crop.

      *Hemp can displace cotton which is usually grown with massive amounts of chemicals harmful to people and the environment. 50% of all the world’s pesticides are sprayed on cotton.

      *Hemp can displace wood fiber and save forests for watershed, wildlife habitat, recreation and oxygen production, carbon sequestration (reduces global warming), and other values.

      *Hemp can yield 3-8 dry tons of fiber per acre. This is four times what an average forest can yield.

      HEALTH FACTS

      *If one tried to ingest enough industrial hemp to get ‘a buzz’, it would be the equivalent of taking 2-3 doses of a high-fiber laxative.

      *At a volume level of 81%, hemp oil is the richest known source of polyunsaturated essential fatty acids (the “good” fats). It’s quite high in some essential amino acids, including gamma linoleic acid (GLA), a very rare nutrient also found in mother’s milk.

      *While the original “gruel” was made of hemp seed meal, hemp oil and seed can be made into tasty and nutritional products.

      Prepared by the North American Industrial Hemp Council, October 1997

      • DaveH

        Finally, Sgt, you’ve hit on something that the Free Markets could address without Forcing people to buy something they don’t want to buy. Keep it up.
        Vote Libertarian!
        http://libertarianparty.org/platform

        • SMSgt Z retired Nam 68

          Greed will not allow Industrial Hemp to be grown in the US again “Profits over Country”

          Grown worldwide for millenia as a source of food, medicine, fiber and paper, hemp was banned for the first time in human history in 1938 by the United States.

          The original impetus for outlawing the hemp plant came from the DuPont and Mellon families with an important assist from William Randolf Hearst.

          Hearst owned timber rights for millions of acres of forest land, the raw material for newsprint. DuPont had patents for numerous synthetic products that hemp is competitive with

          • DaveH

            Greed motivates everybody, Sgt. Our task is to harness it peacefully and cooperatively. Take your hemp idea. Yes, it should be legal. So should anything that somebody chooses to do to their own bodies and property. You should be able to market anything you choose to voluntary purchasers. The fact that we can’t is the disease. You are focusing on the wrong things if you think just hemp should be legalized. Instead of picking and choosing our favorite individual pursuits to be legalized, we instead need to recognize that all of us have different needs and desires, and work to decriminalize all voluntary transactions that don’t result in trespassing on the bodies and property of others.

  • Doc Sarvis

    I don’t recall “Green” energy being touted as cheap. Be that as it may, oil is far from cheap. We pay far more than just our cash at the pump for our oil. Trillions of dollars over the years, hundreds of thousands of lives, and probably millions of lives ruined (battle injuries) is what our addiction to yesterday’s fuel is costing us.

    I just heard an interview with Bill Gates this morning. He and other corporate leaders (they were not identified) are going to the President to push for more alternative energy research which has been underfunded (that is their postion – and mine) for far too long. Most of our countries major challenges are strongly linked to the avialibility of energy. With petroleum on the outs we need to invest in finding and developing new sources of energy and in putting in place far more efficient systems/practices for the use of energy.

    If your main goal is to not let Al Gore get rich (he already is) at the expense of moving our country forward and off of last century’s energy source and usage habits then your goal is to defeat America.

    • Bud

      When it becomes profitable for “green” energy then companies will produce it. Not before. No fed help needed. Therefore no tax payer money used on pie-in-the-sky fixes to line some smouch’s pocket!

      • eddie47d

        Oil companies did and still do use taxes and incentives to make a profit. The alternatives expect no less.

    • Thomas

      So you want TAX PAYERS DOLLARS to fund the development of alternative fuel,and then you and big industries that the al gores are vested in,capitalize on the developement in which the TAX PAYERS had to fund. Then the TAX PAYER is price gouged at the pumps. What is the benifit to the TAX PAYER on their investment of their tax dollars. If the TAX PAYERS were to see a return on their TAX DOLLARS, then and ONLY then, this wouldn’t LOOK-SMELL-or FEEL like a LINE THE POCKET SCHEME from the al gores in this world. FUND IT YOURSELF, because only you and the al gores will profit financially, and cost the TAX PAYERS BILLIONS ON TOP OF BILLIONS for your financial gains.

    • DaveH

      I’ll give you that our military involvements in other countries is wrong, Doc. But why do you want to create another “wrong” by Forcing people to pay more for something they don’t want? If you truly want to take a Principled approach to politics, then you need to study Libertarian Philosophy, the Philosophy of Freedom.

      • Doc Sarvis

        Thomas & DaveH
        As stated in my second paragraph above; apparently Bill Gates and other corporate leaders want government to do more on this front.

        • DaveH

          So? Your point?

    • Dale on the left coast

      Doc . . . so why doesn’t Komputer Geek Gates fund it??? He wants to fund it with your tax dollars . . . LOL
      Gates knows Komputers . . . but little else . . . there is no know “Green” energy source today that can replace oil . . . FACT!!!

  • James A

    Re: Wind Power
    The wind only blows strong enough to generate power about 3% of the time. They are very noisy, kill birds, and no one wants to live close to them. However, the big problem is that the power has to be moved from where it is generated to where it is being used. Power lines in my back yard? Not on your life! Natural gas burns relatively clean and we seem to have plenty of it now that shale gas can be produced. Our local gas company and bus company burns it in all of their vehicles. Providing the infrastructure wouldn’t take that long.

    • SMSgt Z retired Nam 68

      This was just to easy
      Several countries have achieved relatively high levels of wind power penetration, such as 21% of stationary electricity production in Denmark, 18% in Portugal, 16% in Spain, 14% in Ireland and 9% in Germany in 2010. As of 2011, 83 countries around the world are using wind power on a commercial basis.

      • James A

        Yes, Denmark, Spain, Portugal, Germany, Ireland all have wind power on a commercial basis and they are “paying through the nose” for it. Denmark pays $.43/kw hour,Germany $.31/kw hr,Portugal $.13/kw hr, Netherlands $.35/kw hr, Ireland $.24/kw hr. I am paying $.09/ kw hr. and another $.04 to have it delivered. The fact is that wind power is very expensive.

        • Doc Sarvis

          Why do we assume that power will be cheap? Oil has spoiled us for too long. Time to move on and get MUCH more efficient.

          • Thomas

            There is what is classified as a middle, lower, and proverty level of citizens in this country that has to be able to afford the necessities of day to day living exspensies. This are the PEOPLE that keeps the ECONOMY growing. So when the decession was made to drive fuel prices up, to force EXSPENSIVE GREEN COST on everyone, it drove the economy into COLLAPSE. Then we the above mentioned class of citizens are having to BAIL-OUT ALL OF THE CORP. THIEVES that got exposed during all of the collapses(Banks, Auto Makers, Wall Street,CEO’s,etc.) I’m for saving the enviroment, but, IT HAS TO BE ECONOMY FRIENDLY, and not to let the TAX PAYERS foot the bill so that the al gores get richer at the exspense of the TAX PAYER. It sounds like you’re an al gore cronie.

          • DaveH

            There you have it, folks, the Liberal Doc admits that Oil is a much cheaper source of energy, but he is willing to impoverish people to unSpoil us. Aren’t the Liberals the ones who are always crying about wanting to help the poor people? Of course they do want to do that with other peoples’ money.

        • Capitalist at Birth

          What is their unemployment rate? Spain’s is “OFICIALLY” 21%.

        • SMSgt Z retired Nam 68

          The wind only blows strong enough to generate power about 3% of the time.This is what I was responding to.I f you really have that energy rate it must be subsidized

    • eddie47d

      James A; All sources of energy kill something and oil kills birds too. Natural gas and oil also have to travel great distances to be used. Probably much farther than wind power.Most homeowners don’t want oil rigs in their backyard either unless they directly benefit. I’m all for natural gas as a heat source yet those pipelines do explode and homes do blow up. No energy source should be pigeon holed as the only way to become energy efficient. Too much is at stake to take that approach.

    • Lost in Paradise

      Except in the Pacific, where there is enough wind most of the time if not all. I have been living in the Pacific rim area for 5 years, and never remember a day with out wind. 10-15 mph or more. I don’t know if that is enough for wind power, but it would seem to be. I have never seen a wind farm where the props are not turning here either, but then I do not see them everyday.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Lost,
        Here at Lincoln Electric stands the largest wind generator in the world and it is quite often standing still!! The company claims that it produces 50% of their power, but I don’t see how when dam near every time I go by it, it is standing still!

  • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

    Science News: Cars Could Run On Recycled Newspaper, Scientists Say
    ScienceDaily (Aug. 26, 2011) — Here’s one way that old-fashioned newsprint beats the Internet. Tulane University scientists have discovered a novel bacterial strain, dubbed “TU-103,” that can use paper to produce butanol, a biofuel that can serve as a substitute for gasoline. They are currently experimenting with old editions of the Times Picayune, New Orleans’ venerable daily newspaper, with great success.
    TU-103 is the first bacterial strain from nature that produces butanol directly from cellulose, an organic compound.

    “Cellulose is found in all green plants, and is the most abundant organic material on earth, and converting it into butanol is the dream of many,” said Harshad Velankar, a postdoctoral fellow in David Mullin’s lab in Tulane’s Department of Cell and Molecular Biology. “In the United States alone, at least 323 million tons of cellulosic materials that could be used to produce butanol are thrown out each year.”

    Mullin’s lab first identified TU-103 in animal droppings, cultivated it and developed a method for using it to produce butanol. A patent is pending on the process.

    “Most important about this discovery is TU-103′s ability to produce butanol directly from cellulose,” explained Mullin.

    He added that TU-103 is the only known butanol-producing clostridial strain that can grow and produce butanol in the presence of oxygen, which kills other butanol-producing bacteria. Having to produce butanol in an oxygen-free space increases the costs of production.

    As a biofuel, butanol is superior to ethanol (commonly produced from corn sugar) because it can readily fuel existing motor vehicles without any modifications to the engine, can be transported through existing fuel pipelines, is less corrosive, and contains more energy than ethanol, which would improve mileage.

    “This discovery could reduce the cost to produce bio-butanol,” said Mullin. “In addition to possible savings on the price per gallon, as a fuel, bio-butanol produced from cellulose would dramatically reduce carbon dioxide and smog emissions in comparison to gasoline, and have a positive impact on landfill waste.”

    • eddie47d

      There you go again coal miner bringing up relevant facts and important information on alternatives. Our country is blessed with many of those resources and the time to adapt is upon us.

  • Stunned at sunset

    Unfortunately, there really IS a viable substitute for petroleum-based energy and the United States has more of it than anyone else in the world! The unfortunate aspect of it all is that “Big Oil” is doing everything that it can to sabotage its development.

    This substitue could take us into the transition between petroleum-based energy and “green” energy and it wouldn’t be as big a pollutant as petroleum-based technology is.

    The substitute is Natural Gas. The United States is now poised to become the “Saudi Arabia” of Natural Gas over the next decade. Mr. Pickens can see this coming and the press has reported that he is investing in programs to convert America’s transportation fleets to natrual gas. For example, the Washington METRO service has converted its buses to Natural Gas. There are plans underway to convert the U.S. Heavy Trucking Fleets to Natural Gas over the next seven years.

    My investment advisor continually advises me to invest in Natural Gas as an alternative to “Big Oil.” This is real. Check it out for yourselves. We have confirmed the largest deposits in the world over the past five years. Continental oil firms are drilling for the stuff all across the nation. And distributors are investing in “pump” technology that is safe and convenient and that will eventually replace the “gasoline pump.” All of the American auto makers are beginning to offer natural gas versions of their automobiles. Agricultural equipment and construction equipment makers already offer natural gas-operated versions of their products.

    “Big Oil” is desperate. They’re going to lose control of the politics, the social attitudes, and the economic infrastructure when this happens so they keep harping on windmills, bio-fuels, nuclear energy, and solar/thermal energy as being weak alternatives when they KNOW that these other sources are supplemental and have always been considered supplemental under the current oil-dominated regime.

    The initiative is to reduce oil consumption not eliminate it and “Big Oil” KNOWS that’s what the alternative energy sources were created for. For instance…BLOOM TECHNOLOGIES is gaining a foothold with its Natural Gas operated energy cells. Utilities all across America are planning to use this technology to replace oil and coal fired plants. Soon Bloom says that it will have a unit that home owners can afford to purchase and hook up to their utility company’s gas service for an economical replacement to energy developed by oil and coal.

    This all sounds fantastic, I know. I had a hard time believing it. You can find out about it if you “Google” it on the WEB and investment adivsors such as Porter Stansberry have written to this new development.

    Stop allowing “Big Oil” to dominate the news with these fantastic claims that we’re just going to have to enslave ourselves to the Saudi Royal Family for the next 100 years. That doesn’t have to happen. In fact, so ominous is this development that the Saudi Royal Family has invested over 150 billion in a program to dump oil on the market to frustrate the speculators and get the price of oil back down towards “CHEAP” so that the development of the Natural Gas alternative will be delayed for years. But, I don’t think that it will work this time.

    • DaveH

      Do you have any evidence, Stunned, that Big Oil is fighting against the development of Natural Gas? Or do you just expect us to take your word for it?
      There is this:
      http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/mark-ruffalo-get-green-award-194426
      The only evidence I’ve seen for opposition to natural gas usage has come from the so-called Environmentalists. Interestingly enough, it was the Environmentalists that were pushing hard for natural gas usage just a few decades ago. Now they’re against it. Probably because it no longer is a useful tool with which to part taxpayers and consumers from more of their money.
      When are the Liberal masses going to catch on to the fact that they are being used by the Liberal Leaders and their Crony Capitalists (such as GE)?

      • JeffH

        BINGO DaveH…how quickly the climate changes when it is no longer usefull to the eco-extremists…no pun intended!

        • eddie47d

          Another senseless attack against Liberals by Dave and Jeff. Can’t get enough of it can you two with that verbiage. Natural gas is great yet it is the concern for all the chemicals that are used in fracking that alarms normal people. Drinking water and water sheds have been contaminated by there use and as I said normal people like clean drinking water. Another problem out West it the enormous amounts of water that has to be used to extract the natural gas.These natural gas companies don’t have the facilities to clean up this contaminated water so some of it goes back into the water sheds…. I didn’t know Libertarians like dirty water so much…LOL.

          • DaveH

            There goes Eddie fabricating facts again.
            “Drinking water and water sheds have been contaminated by there use”.
            You have absolutely no proof of that, Eddie. You are just doing what Eddie does best — spouting Liberal talking points hoping to appeal to those ignorant people who act on emotion rather than fact.
            Here is the truth:
            http://reason.org/news/show/natural-gas-flip-flop

          • JeffH

            DaveH, if eddie didn’t have you and I to pick fights with he’d almost(notice I said almost)never get beat up on so badly. Not only is the man(?)a proven liar, he is a self-inflicted masochist!

          • DaveH

            I think Eddie leaned too far to the left and the few marbles he had left rolled out of his ear.

          • eddie47d

            So apparently water isn’t being contaminated by fracking according to the troll brothers.I wish you two would read some normal news and get off of your right wing propaganda that you always download without checking other sources. The problems in Pennsylvania have been circulating for a couple of years now. I know Mises,Townhall and Malkin won’t tell you the real facts about what is going on. I suppose you will be saying that water in peoples kitchens in Colorado haven’t caught on fire either. Although that has been on the news several times. I know you feel that name calling others will make the facts disappear …never gonna happen.

          • Dan az

            I wonder if eddie knows that where he lives they used nukes to frack with?The last thing on my mind would be the water!

          • http://?? Joe H.

            eddie,
            “I know Mises, Townhall, and Malkin won’t tell you the whole truth”.
            But ABC,CBS NBC, and Katie Couric WILL?!?!?!?!?!? As Bugs would say, “What a maroon!!!!

          • DaveH

            Well, I guess I can’t be too hard on Eddie for this one. The Environmentalists have inundated the Internet and the Airwaves with their Propaganda. How can you spot Propaganda? It rarely deals with the other side of the controversy. And if it’s on the news, it’s controversial. So why aren’t they presenting the other side of the story? Because, they have a vested interest. In this case, they are trying to turn people against natural gas, because there’s no money to be made by the Crony Capitalists in natural gas. They need wind generators, or solar panels, or some other such thing that can be heavily subsidized so that both the Politicians and the Crony Capitalists profit at the expense of the taxpayers and the consumers.
            The other side of the story:
            http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=299889

          • DaveH

            By the way, Eddie, the article I posted came from reason.org not mises.org.
            I guess I don’t need to ask if you read it, since you can’t even get the name of the organization correct.
            What is it like to swelter in ignorance, Eddie?

          • eddie47d

            No more “ignorant” than you Dave. Bring up a link after the fact and then accuse me of getting it wrong. Nice try Dave!

      • Lost in Paradise

        I think you are correct Dave. There are many adds on the internet and tv, by Exxon I believe, that are trying to promote the use of natural gas, and the huge amount that is found in the USA. BIg oil sees this as a possible money maker, and will take full advantage of it.

    • Dale on the left coast

      Who drills for Natural Gas . . . why “Big Oil” does . . . lol
      Today . . . there are over 30 drill ships under construction around the world . . . “Big Oil” will be with us for many decades, still the cheapest most reliable source of energy.
      And since oil is Abiotic . . . and believed to be continually created in the earth’s core . . . it may survive much longer.
      Anyone ever calculate how many Dinosaurs in a Billion Barrels of Oil??? LOL

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Dale,
        As to that last line? It depends on if it is under D.C.!!!

      • Stunned at sunset

        That’s right Dale, you get it. It doesn’t make any difference who drills for the stuff or who screws up the water table drilling for it. If “Big Oil” wanted to promote Natural Gas as an alternative “transitional fuel” that would take us into the “free energy” era and green fuels, then there would be an entire distribution industry implemented across the Nation almost “over night.” Like I said, there are a number of sectors who have converted to Natural Gas and have proven it’s efficiencies but there remains the end point distribution. The gas lines to deliver bulk energy are all there. I know; I work in the Utility Sector. There is no distribution. Why? Well, who owns the fuel stations where we all “tank up?”

  • http://patrickdonahuebooks.com Patrick Donahue

    I have read all of the comments and notice that some seem to think they have the answer. My favorite is “Poop.” Pretty much “BS”, like the others. If you truly would like to answer your Father’s dying wish, I have the answer. The OBAMANATION only backs so-called GREEN ENERGY that fits a very narrow criteria governed by financial support and lobbyest that are in bed with the administration like GE, which have received billions in Grants to “Pie in the Sky” schemes dealing with Windmills and Solar panels that have only supplied less than 2% of our needs at a cost hundreds of times greater than just drilling our own oil. I have a patent on a device that can supply over 60% of the electricity needed in this country, as well as the rest of the world that burns no fuel, emits no pollution, kills no animals, cannot be be seen or heard, uses an an untapped infinite resource and runs 24/7/365. It is based on the simplest of dynamics, and all components are “Off the Shelf” There is no QUANTUM PHYSICS involved and could be online within months at a cost of less than 2-cents a kilowatt hour. I am 63-years old and I believe money is not the most important thing in life. What this invention could do for humanity far outweighs anything else. Abraham Lincoln had a plaque on his desk that read: “What incredible things that can be accomplished if only one does not care who gets the credit.” It was on Ronald Reagan’s desk as well. I submit this challenge to you. If you would really want to help solve this crises, contact me. “Words are only words! Only Actions are indelible.”

    • SMSgt Z retired Nam 68

      No BS about POOP Google “Manure to Energy” ,Anaerobic Digester’s American BioGas Council Etc,Etc

    • Stunned at sunset

      Are you talking about “magnetic” operated generators, Patrick? I’ve seen one. It works and it was impressive. I don’t suppose that people like you are having all kinds of problems bringing your ideas to market. The energy industry lobby and “Big Oil” and other investment companies along with the government are spending billions trying to keep inventors with real solutions from bringing their product to market. The whole system is rigged.

      • http://patrickdonahuebooks.com Patrick Donahue

        NO! I am talking about a source of energy that has been around as long as the universe, but has never even been considered as an energy source, yet is infinite. I have tested my theories and have had it documented by the man responsible for building the Lemm lander (The craft that landed on the Moon), along with other renowned engineers. The critical fault with the so-called GREEN ENERGY SCHEMES of this administration is: They don’t work and will never achieve the main criteria of any idea: “Profitability.” The reason government never solves problems is that it does not know or cares to know how to make a profit. If it costs more, they only print more. This country did not become the Greatest Country in the World because of government. It became what it was in spite of government, due to individuals that were allowed to dream and fulfill their dreams. Henry Ford created the car for profit and it went on to benefit the entire world. If an idea doesn’t pass the “Smell Test of profitability”, it will never stand on its own. This does!

      • Capitalist at Birth

        The HO JO motor.

        • Dan az

          CB
          I read something a while back about this motor that has been running a city to this day.I can’t remember what country I think he was hungarian I’m not sure.I saw the add here and look into it but can’t afford the book,have you bought it?I’m curious if its the same one.It produced enough power to run its self and power the city and I think it was a magnet motor generator and they were going to start producing them for market but haven’t heard any thing more about it.Funny how some one claims there is something that they have built and are not in it for the money that never says what it is.Pipe dream?Who knows allot of people talk about how they have done things but when it comes to the proof I never see it.How about you!Think this might work?

          • Dan az

            Case in point!
            I am 63-years old and I believe money is not the most important thing in life. What this invention could do for humanity far outweighs anything else.
            So what prey tell is it.Oh its a secret I get it!

  • bob wire

    Mr Myer, Pickens has invested heavily in property target rich in gas and water, and for good reason. So yes, he has a vested interest in the way future politics and funding plays out.

    Pickens has always said gas can do the heavy lifting and serve as a “bridge fuel” to tomorrows new generation of fuels.

    Now what those new generation of fuels might be or consist of is unclear to most of us at this point and perhaps the very point of contention that predicates your article.

    Today’s fuel cost must be high enough to encourage this research and development and scarcity but only a factor. Getting any new product to market is a daunting task, especially when it requires a major retooling on a global scale.

    I seen a future beyond controlled combustion. I see rail guns launching objects into space, making getting into orbit affordable. I see on spot power generation and no need for a power grid. And I think that is how far ahead Picken is looking into the future while sitting tight on vast gas and water reserves with a large grin on his face.

    He however will not get to see it and I’m quite certain that he knows this. Nor will you and I for that matter.

    To say Picken is a shewed man would be an understatement. I believe he seen end game play long ago. He and his prodigy are fixed nicely either way the chips fall and things play out.

  • robt shrugged

    dinoso I hope that you understand that nuclear power is a good alternative to other energy sources, but the secret to energy indepencence is to let us drill for oil which we have in great abundance. the enviromentalists do not want us to drill or generate nuclear power. they want us to go back to the primitive ways and disappear from the face of the earth so that all the creatures of the earth can live happly ever after without humans arround. what a great solution eliminate man and everything will be ok. only God can do that, and he will.

    • SMSgt Z retired Nam 68

      Environmentalists do not want to go back to the Days of the Cuyahoda River in Ohio or the air pollution of the late 60′s

      LIGHT WATER REACTOR SUSTAINABILITY PROGRAM: INTRODUCTION
      The Light Water Reactor Sustainability (LWRS) Program is a research and development (R&D) program sponsored by the Department of Energy (DOE), performed in close collaboration with industry R&D programs, to provide the technical foundations for licensing and managing the long-term, safe and economical operation of current nuclear power plants. DOE’s program focus is on longer-term and higher-risk/reward research that contributes to the National Policy objectives of energy security and environmental security
      The U.S. has issued five permits in recent weeks for oil drilling in the Gulf of Mexico—hailing some as “new.”

      But all allow work to resume that was halted last year during BP’s Deepwater Horizon spill.

      Faced with rising oil prices, melting alternatives, and growing criticism, the U.S. began issuing the permits in February. The fifth went to Chevron yesterday.

      Administration officials have championed the permits with statements asserting that things are back to normal, only safer:

      • Bruman

        I do not want to go back to the Days of the Cuyahoga River in Ohio or the air pollution of the late 60′s. And I’m not an Environmentalist. Keep drilling, learn from the mistakes made, clean up the messes made. Sounds like progress.

        Sgt B retired Nam 72

      • Dan az

        Just look at what is already here and ask your self why isn’t this in production everywhere?
        http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/why-thorium-nuclear-power-is-inevitable/

    • Doc Sarvis

      So you are saying that God and environmentalists want the same thing?

      • DaveH

        No, Doc, God is not interested in redistribution of wealth.

        • Doc Sarvis

          I was referring to robt shrugged last sentence in the post above. As for the transfer of wealth – that has been occurring for quite awhile, the extremely rich keep getting extremely richer.

          • DaveH

            I’m talking about involuntary transfer of wealth, Doc. No doubt there are Crony Capitalists who profit at our expense, Doc, but I haven’t seen any evidence that you advocate taking the necessary steps to stop that current fact of life. We could stop Crony Capitalists simply by getting the Force of Government out of the Marketplace, thus putting them on a level playing field with their competitors.

          • eddie47d

            I don’t see any evidence that Dave is making Capitalism more honest. Only a few Capitalists correct their own mistakes and only when they get caught doing something inappropriate. Even competition doesn’t always wake them up to do the right thing.

          • DaveH

            I think I have had an epiphany. All this time I thought the Environmentalist label of “Green” referred to the color of plant life. Now I realize, thanks to Eddie, that what they really mean is “Green with Envy”.
            Maybe, Eddie, if you became more than useless, you wouldn’t need to spend so much of your time envying the accomplishments of others.

          • JeffH

            DaveH, bzzzzzzzzzzz… :)

          • SMSgt Z retired Nam 68

            The wealth have the money and will do anything to hold on to it. Pundits like Rush 58.7 million, Beck 33 million, Hannity 22 million O’Reilly 20 million will keep yelling about the distribution of wealth due to the fact they have a vested interest “Profits over Country”

            ” But since the 2010 election, thanks to a conservative advocacy group founded by Weyrich, the GOP’s effort to disrupt voting rights has been more widespread and effective than ever. In a systematic campaign orchestrated by the American Legislative Exchange Council – and funded in part by David and Charles Koch, the billionaire brothers who bankrolled the Tea Party – 38 states introduced legislation this year designed to impede voters at every step of the electoral process

          • DaveH

            Common Dreams? That’s a laugh, Sgt. By the way, when you plagiarize a comment from another website, it kind of makes you look dishonest. You should post a link and make it known that your comment was copied:
            http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/09/01-3

            The GOP War on Voting? Oh, goodness, they are requiring proof of citizenship for voter registrations in Kansas and Alabama. How crude and unAmerican to ask that they provide proof of citizenship before they get to vote. I mean what’s next? Are they going to ask that you actually donate some money to Government before you get to vote on how to spend other peoples’ money? How Draconian.

          • eddie47d

            Hey Sgt their operation is far worse than anything Acorn could have come up with. They no longer want one man one vote either and it goes far beyond voter ID cards (which would be a good idea).They know that voter turn out is always low and any new rule in their favor will assure a win.

          • DaveH

            Yep, the voter turn out will be lower because they can no longer use their green card to vote.

  • TML

    Here’s your viable replacement, and it’s clean.

    http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/4271398

  • http://aol.com sean murrey ILLInio

    if we could get the EPA off our backs it would provide jobs drilling our own oil.

    • eddie47d

      In other words you want uncontrolled mayhem.

    • SMSgt Z retired Nam 68

      Lets bring back the good old days of Spontaneous Combustion of Rivers and air we can see

      • eddie47d

        Exactly!

      • http://?? Joe H.

        SMsgtZ,
        you mean like L.A. county California that has some of the most restrictive polution standards in the country and have for years? Oh, BTW they still have some of the worst polluted air in the country, as well!!

  • JohnK.

    Mr. Meyer’s is NOT saying alternative fuel ideas should be discarded, he is just indicating that oil is STILL #1. But this administration is doing everything it can to crater our economy with it’s AL GORE fetish!!

    • 45caliber

      JohnK.

      Al Gore instituted the largest tax increase in history without Congress having to vote on it. Have you noticed your base phone bill is no longer about $10 a month? The extra is all tax although it doesn’t show up that way. Gore found that Congress, many years ago, had authorized the FCC to pay for all its costs with phone taxes. They were doing so but could still increase the tax another $20 or so a bill so he talked them into it. All of it goes to the general account.

      He and his friends still in Washington feel that he deserves to get soem government aid as a result so they push for whatever he wants. Besides, as an ex-politician, he knows how hard it is to raise money. If he can get billions, he might give them a couple of million for their compaigns.

    • bob wire

      I just don’t believe what you say is this case. ~ You are wanting to ignore or discount other types of research and electing to focus on green and Al Gore. ~ He’s a favorite target, much like Micheal Moore. Some people simply don’t approve of their message. But if they are so far off, why this ground swell of excitement and resistance?

      All of this perhaps is most understandable. Cutting edge research tends to be very obscure, clocked, hidden and for good reason, so we don’t hear too much about it.

      I think this “argument” has more to do with “how the pie” is being divide and less to do with, “should it be”.

      Mr. Myers is wanting a larger share then he feels the current on-going industry is getting. Suggesting time and money spent in “green” is money poorly spent. There is grounds to support such notions.

      Mr. Myers comes from an Oil industry infrastructure and support family and he knows what works. These other areas have yet to enjoy such a strong robust track record.

      Some people would be willing to starve out other research and development,finding little need for them. and they DO! all of the time!

      • eddie47d

        Bingo!

      • 45caliber

        bobby:

        In a way you are right. Any research project wants all the available money. Indeed, many of the present research projects are on things they KNOW will never be of much use but they can get big bucks to research it now. It is like the research going on to make aluminum directly from ore without using electric arc ovens to remove it. Napoleon knew of that method – but it can’t be done economically or in any volumn. The research is continuing and the guy doing it pulls down about $250,000 a year to do it – knowing it can’t be done ecoomically.

        But oil is not being researched. It is available and should be drilled for use NOW since we depend upon it now. Neither Myers nor myself are insisting that no further research should be done on “green” energy at this time. Indeed, I want it to continue. But we shouldn’t be forced to ignore the oil available until we get new sources of energy. Nor should we be forced to buy it from foreign countries when we have so much.

        • bob wire

          This is all so true 45. Not to say I know that much about aluminum refining but I understand the thrust of your comment.

          I do believe fuel cost needs to be high enough the people engaged in refining and extraction can make a handsome profit, pay their people well, be mindful and good neighbors and always proactive in finding better ways to do things. There is always room to improve. This BP spill was unfortunate but something good will come of it in much the same way double hulk delivery vessels ceased to be “optional” after the Valdez incident.

          In the late 90′s I spent more time then I’d care to mention off the Texas, Louisiana and Alabama coastline in support of offshore exploration and extraction. ~ It seems, along with the new and improved electronics and software it became necessary to “re-sound” the Gulf of Mexico, Seismic vessels became a “new obstacle” in the water, and something to contend with as they require a very wide berth if they are sounding. It’s a big ocean out there but it’s amazing how two vessel can be on conflicting courses often. This is just one example how the industry continues to improve that I’ve had personal experience with.

          Thanks to venues like the Indy 500! We now have gas cars that can stay in service 250, 350,000 without a major rebuild. That’s truly amazing, we’ve came a long way in making better, faster, more efficient gasoline engines and chassis that can handle such performance.

          We depend on the oil industry for lubrication, plastics, medicines, cloth, sealers, adhesives, the list is huge and endless. So we sure need to protect the industry, this goes without saying. It’s indispensable at this time in world history and affects probably 95 % of the world population in one way or another.

          But as I’ve said many times, we are little more then cavemen, still learning new and better way to use fire. We need serious advance research in other methods on how to get about and move “things” about. There is a better way to do it, it’s being done, just not by us.

          I say this as we read NASA has plans for a monster rocket that runs on liquid hydrogen/oxygen and plans a 4 year trip to Mars. Leaving me to believe fire and smoke will be with us another good 30 years, making my dream a 100 years out.

          We have objects cruising in our atmosphere today at Mach 27 to 31. You only need to blink to miss them. I was read where the Air force was working on a plane with hopes of clocking Mach 14 in a point in time where Mach 3 is now “common”. If I not mistaken they had a recent mishaps with it.

          So we are getting there! But new fuels and new concepts will be required and this takes money, lots of time and money.

          Big Oil has enough money to make Jesus Christ appear to be the bad Guy and I think we all need to be mindful of that as we ponder our future and set our goals.

  • http://yahoo skyraider 6

    bs aside natural gas is the answer

  • c..l.pringle

    scientifically Gore is an idiot. warming is a fraud,-his “scientists” are
    social,political,behavioural,and others,not REAL scientisra. “green”
    energy is foolish and expensive. Our new technology of the past 15
    years has left the “peak energy” theory of the 1960′s obsolete.
    Now -ifour government will just keep their oars out of the mashed
    potatoes, while industry continues to develope the infrastructure for
    use of natural gas and LNG, we have 200 yrs of natgas and oil at
    present consumption rates and prices,- can puta million people to
    work, cut a billion dollars a mmonth from our foreign fuel bill
    and stop supporting the terrorist nations.

    • 45caliber

      c.

      Al Gore isn’t as concerned about green energy or global warming as he is about getting the government to specify his equipment as the answer to global warming. At the moment it is far too expensive and doesn’t do enough to justify its use. If he can get his friends in government to force companies to buy the equipment, he stands to be richer than Bill Gates and the other two richest men in the world combined. That is his one and only concern.

      • Dan az

        45
        I heard that he invested in some things that when cap and trade came into play he would make a fortune is this what your talking about?

  • Jimmy Joe

    T-Boone Pickens,Instead of using his resources to fight environmentalist loons,and Political pimps.Which sadly most businesses,should but do not to speak out either,for fear of retribution from government.And have seen proof,first hand,That the democrat party is out to destroy the free enterprise capitalist,system.While the good ol boy,and gal network,elite establishment,are either bought off themselves,and join democrats.or are cowardly elephants,afraid to step on the mouse that roared!T-Boone Pickens thought he saw the writing on the wall,and like too many businesses,and corporations,who are being,extorted,intimidated,and threatened.Believed if you can’t beat em,join em.And is,and will fail,in the end!Stand up for your principles even if you stand alone!The gop mantra is instead of being leaders like ronald reagan,and convincing the american people,and their oppisition its in their best interest to come around,to his way of thinking,they instead comprimise for convienience,and fear of losing the next election!The gop has become totally politically correct compliant to the left.For fear of offending others.But who are true conservative voters attracted to in the republican party1.Chris Christie2.Sara Palin 3.Michelle Bachman.4.Donald trump 6.Ron Paul.7.Rick Perry.Why?Whether you agree with them,politically,or Ideaologically,or not.They say what they mean,and mean,and believe what they say,and do not cowar,or comprimise,their principles for convienience to the oppisition.And why Democrats are better political fighters than republicans.Even though they lie,cheat,and steal to get what they want.They are not politically intimidated,like the gop is..Change that,change america,or at least you can look yourselves in the mirror,knowing you gave it,your all!That in the end,it will be about right,and wrong,not right,and left!Try winning a football game with the same cowardly,politically correct compliant,don’t want to tackle the quarterback, runningback,Tightend,and wide reciever,cowardice comprimise,and why can’t we all just get along tactics,and strategies,of the ol’guard pundents,and political hacks,that are helping democrats,the other team,catch-up,or win!Old Saying;”You gotta fight,for your right,to be free”SO WHERE’S THE BEEF,GOP!!!

  • c..l.pringle

    Yes the firsttime it wanted an emai address -soSI said it all agein

  • 45caliber

    I have to agree with John Myers. I haven’t seen anything yet that looks as if it will replace oil in the near future – or even the far future.

    While I’m not too worried about a few birds since we have millions of them, the windmills take up far too much room and make a lot of noise. Solar panels also take a lot of room for the energy they produce. And room is something we don’t have a lot of anymore. Tidal water is basically minor worldwide. You simply don’t get enough water moving in most places. Cold fusion is still in the experimental stages – and I’ve yet to hear of a successful demonstration. Hydrogen is a maybe but needs more work. Ethanol is expensive and takes too much water. And it requires almost as much fuel as it produces. Natural gas is okay and – at the moment – there seems to be plenty but it is still a finite energy source. And so on.

    So we need to continue to drill for the time being.

    (I wish we could get something other than oil for fuel. Oil is used to produce 95% of our plastics. I’d like to save all of it for that.)

  • http://What'sthis? Robert J. Stanton

    I’m an “Old Retired Oil Refinery guy.” I worked in the industry for 34+ years. Anybody who thinks that H2, (Hydrogen) is the answer to our energy problem, probably has never worked with it. I HAVE! It’s damn dangerous and expensive to produce. AND that’s just the production of the element. Now just think about the infastructer needed to distribute it… To condense H2 to a liquid state, and that’s the only way to distrubute it, in any usable quanties, requires 10,000 PSI. NOW, think about what kind of pipe line, fuel tank or pump, to pump it! OH yes, and does the name “HINDENBERG” raise any questions about H2 explosivability???

    • 45caliber

      Robert:

      I know EXACTLY what you are talking about!

      Actually, I think many of these alternate energy research projects are designed solely to get more money from the government or from science deficiet investors.

    • Lost in Paradise

      Yes, I have been thinking along the same lines. It would really make a interesting accident at the local intersection. I can just imagine a burst hydrogen tank, and a spark.You surely could not trust the average person at the pump to refill the tank with hydrogen. Good Greif, it would take specially trained personel. Natural gas explosions are also very interesting from a very distant location.I do not want a vehicle with either for fuel. The muslims would really like though.

  • http://na Jim

    I sure wish I had a foot in the door with some of these green companies. YOUR BIRD/BAT PROBLEM; Install or drill holes in blades that make the appropriate sound to deter them flying through them. Real affective with bats. No wind, develope the high effeciencey lithium battery storrage banks. Big blades I’m not going to give this one up but have design for less diameter generators which also is less obtrusive. I don’t see this as a political issue because any party could’nt possibly pull there heads out long enough to solve or support any good ideas. If the civilian companies or an agency like NASA supported with tax payers funding and staffed by the top scientists don’t do it its not going to get done.

    • 45caliber

      Jim:

      Instead of batteries, we should have capacitor banks. They charge from the wind energy and then feed the system when there is no wind. Batteries charge themselves – capacitors are charged from something else but hold the power. And capacitor tech has been around for ages. Further, it isn’t that expensive.

      I think one of our major problems with energy costs is that power companies are allowed to charge their fees based on what they spend. I worked for an electric company while in college many many years ago. Since their fees they charged were based a lot on what they spent (thanks to the state public service commission), they ALWAYS went with the most expensive option.

      • Dan az

        45
        Batteries are capacitors they just store allot more energy and release it as its needed.Just thought I would throw that in there.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        45caliber,
        I used to have an old capacitor that could be charged up and then you toss it to someone and watched them dance!! got a lot of laughs!! They sure drop it faster than they catch it!!!

  • Old Henry

    John:

    You are correct. Currently the only game in town is oil and natural gas. Between our two countries we have more oil and gas than the rest of the world put together. And we should be using it.

    YOu are also correct in alluding to the fact that Algore is nothing more than a con man getting rich off of suckers just like Madoff did.

    Follow the money.

    There may well be something better out there, but let the entrepreneurs work toward its discovery as the first oil men did – on their own without their hand in my back posket.

  • Sam Pakan

    You are so right. As a current victim of “renewable” energy, and an avid researcher of the same, I can tell you the negative environmental impact of wind energy far exceeds any that fossil fuels have ever wrought on the planet. And the graft is unbelievable. Check this article out. If anyone is interested, I have a more recent version that tells a bit more about the graft. http://www.masterresource.org/2011/03/texas-wind-swindle-i/ Please read both parts.

  • C. R.

    For 100 years we have known we must go safe/clean nuclear. Have had them in Europe for years with less problems and extremely few incidents and deaths versus coal mining, ugly windmills killing birds and costing a fortune to run/maintain, and solar panels that have resulted in not being able to sell back excess electricity. We are wasting time and money. We need to move forward into the modern world. Obviously, the false greens want to make money off of us. I have been and was green long before Gore and friends came onboard and I changed to Shaklee cleaning products, recycling, etc. back in 1970 when I returned to the USA from a third world country using products that damaged their health and their country and my planet. People talk a lot, but do very little to change products they use and their lifestyles. Until we get nuclear plants, things will stay the same. No real money in nuclear plants for those who take care of themselves, live on a dirty lifestyle and preach to us and make money off those who think being green is the end-all – it is for us but makes money for those others. Stop,think, research, and use true clean products in your life. No need to go back to primitive lifestyle just update your current one.

    • 45caliber

      C.R.

      I completely agree. But there are too many people who hear the word “nuclear” and freak out. “It will blow up!”

      There have been two major disasters with nuclear plants that I can think of at the moment. One is Chenobal – the other is the plants hit by the tidal wave in Japan. But when you consider the rest of the plants world wide and the problems with other types of energy they are much much safer.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        5caliber,
        not as bad as the other two, but don’t forget three mile island.

  • 45caliber

    Just a note on T. Boone Pickens. He contracted to buy several billion dollars worth of wind generators (and ships them into the country locally so I see most of them). But he did NOT plan to install or pay for the infrastructure to distribute the energy. He planned for the government to do that (and him get the profits for not putting it in and for the energy that flows over it).

    The government refuses to pay the five billion or so to install it so he is now trying to sell all the wind generators to someone else.

    • Nadzieja Batki

      This is the best summation of Pickens.

  • 45caliber

    The ONE real problem with oil as fuel is that we have the technology already developed (and have had for as much as 60 years) to double our fuel economy (which means we use half as much fuel). But the government would lose half their fuel taxes if that tech is used to make better cars. They don’t want to do that.

  • http://yahoo skyraider 6

    we should start by switching gasoline powered cars and trucks to natural gas the conversion is econiminal and they are transmission lines in place already

    • Dale on the left coast

      Ever see the size of a Natural Gas Tank in a vehicle? It has to be LARGE . . . very large . . . if you want the vehicle to go a reasonable distance. It has been used in my area along with propane for over 2 decades, but mostly large trucks and vans.

      • 45caliber

        Dale:

        The original idea was to use a high pressure tank and use liquid natural gas like we do propane. The real problem with natural gas on cars is the fuel taxes.

        It is too easy to put a valve on a natural gas line at your house and fill up there. You might not get as far as with LPG but you can fill up based on your HOUSE gas price – which would be a LOT lower and wouldn’t have the fuel tax.

        So the government has refused to allow such vehicles until they can come up with a sure-fired way to keep those fuel taxes.

        That is the same reason that they won’t allow the motor improvements that could double your gas milage – or more. They would take a cut in the fuel taxes since you would buy less fuel.

        Electric vehicles are also being stalled for the same reason – hence usually public transportation (which pays no fuel taxes) are the only ones going to it. There are a few EXPENSIVE electric cars available – and the price includes the fuel tax. But all have short range and low speeds to prevent you from doing a lot of road driving … even though electric cars that can achieve freeway speeds and a fuel tank range (about 350 miles) have been successfully tested.

        Right now they are talking about a road tax. They would tax you by the miles you drive. One idea is to force you to report your car milage and then tax you on it once a year. (Several thousand dollars a hit for some people.) Another way is to require all cars to have a GPS that has a built in radio signal that would transmit your milage to a post containing a receiver every time you pass one. You would get a bill each month for the milage. But EVERY idea of a road tax does not include a termination of the present fuel tax.

  • C. R.

    You would think with all the hot air wind out there, we would have no energy problems. I don’t begrudge anyone earning money, but let’s be reasonable and logical and sane and go nuclear because the other stuff doesn’t pay us back, only pays those who invest or preach.

  • Tom Anderson

    What does everyone have against GEOTHERMAL?

    1) It does not generate ANY pollutants – every drop of water coming out of the ground is injected back into the ground to maintain the thermal cycle – no CO2, no radiation, no nothing

    2) Geothermal provides “BASE LOAD” – runs all of the time, NOT like sunlight or wind of other half-arsed Rube Goldberg technologies

    3) Does NOT require hydrocarbons, coal or uranium

    4) The largest geothermal system in the USA is the Geysers just north of SFO. It produces enough electricity to power TWO San Franciscos. It has been producing electricity since the 1920′s

    Look at the official Temperature Gradient Heat Flow map of the USA and you will see that Oregon is the Saudi Arabia of geothermal. Yet there is only ONE producing plant so far – extra credit question – WHY?

    So, GENIUSES, PLEASE tell me WHY the USA (and everyone in this post) is ignoring and pooh-poohing GEOTHERMAL energy.

    The ANSWER in a following post. GOP Hates it and DEMOS hate it.

    • DaveH

      Who was pooh-poohing Geothermal Energy, Tom? If it works, and it doesn’t cost the taxpayers money, and the consumers aren’t forced to buy it, I have no problem with it. Notice that I said “if it works”.

      • 45caliber

        It works – but it costs for energy to pump it out of the ground and back in again. Usually more than you get from it. If there is a free-flowing geothermal system (such as Old Faithful) then that is another matter. Unfortunately, these are limited. It depends a lot of your use of it. If you are trying to cool the air going into your AC unit to lower your AC bill, it will probably be slightly cost affective.

        However, there is an easier way to do that. Route all your return air (with a fan) through about a thousand feet or so of pipe buried about three feet underground before it gets to your AC unit. Generally your AC won’t have to do much to cool it (many times the return air is about 60-65 degrees) and it will save a lot. It will also help your heating bill in winter if you live in cold areas of the country.

    • Tom Anderson

      DaveH,

      What do you mean, “if it works”? It has been “working” at Geysers (for SFO) since the 20′s.

      And contrary to what 45 believes, you do NOT have to pump it out of the ground. In fact, it is dry steam with ten of thousands of PSI driving it out – it takes a lot of thick steel to hold it in.

      But this complete ignorance of geothermal is common – even on this conservative post.

      Does it work???? I appreciate your lack of embarrassment at showing your ignorance. Geysers has been producing over a GigaWatt for decades – no guvmint subsidies are needed – it is a money maker – always has been. Why do you propose such an ignorant question?

      Salton Sea is some 300 to 400 MegaWatts – day in – day out – 24/7. No guvmint subsidies – it makes a BIG profit. Doesn’t rely on the wind blowing or the sun shining – the steam comes out on its own and you pour the condensed water back into another drill hole. Why is THAT so hard for you guys to understand?

      Pumping out of ground??? Such IGNORANCE!!!

      THIS, my friends, is why we are in the energy predicament that we are in – simple IGNORANCE.

      Instead of poking a hole in the hot ground here in the USA and allowing superheated steam to drive turbines and produce energy, let’s start a bunch of wars and send our servicemen to kill and to die to protect our foreign oil sources. All the better for the MIC. And we ALL must feed the MIC. And YOU guys are taking the side of the MIC simply because of your ignorance of geothermal and its vast potential here in the USA.

      Do we have any eduquated readers out there?

      Or perhaps you guys are Yankees and have never seen Old Faithful – or have never seen a hot springs which are prevalent in the West. If so, forgive me. Most children here in the west know that the interior of the earth is hot and you can tap into that energy.

      • DaveH

        By “if it works”, Tom, I wasn’t just talking about “can they produce energy with geothermal”. There are many more factors that go into the equation, ignoramus — The cost of the capital equipment, maintenance of the equipment, skilled worker requirements, transportation of the electricity, etc.
        Your Geothermal solution now accounts for .3% of the electricity production in the United States. Get that, Ignoramus, about 1/300th of total electricity production? Hardly anything to get worked up about. And they’ve been using Geothermal since 1960 in the US. Still only .3%.
        Why is that? It’s such a wonderful concept, yet they still only use it to produce 1/300th of the electricity in this country?
        That folks, is why we can’t let Liberals run the country. They have no clue about economics. They just know what they want, like a bunch of spoiled children, and they are going to ram it down our throats whether it is economical or not.
        And then call us Ignorant if we resist.

        • Tom Anderson

          Dear DaveH,

          Thanks for that 0.3% figure. Iceland’s geothermal % is over 50%. Their percentage used to be LESS than 0.3%.

          The Geysers and Salton Sea geothermal field “WORK” – in the sense that they are EXTREMELY profitable – they make oodles of money without ANY need for guvmint subsidies. So, tell me, WHAT is liberal about THAT?

          Now I can get around to my fundamental point. The reason that geothermal companies and exploration companies are NOT exploring and drilling for geothermal is simply because of Federal Guvmint policy!!! And the GOP is as guilty as the DEMOS (or more so).

          Some 90% of all land in the west with geothermal potential is controlled by the Feds – BLM or Forestry or such. The fed policy specifically DISCOURAGES any exploration or development of geothermal. THAT is why geothermal is nearly dead in the USA – NOT because it is not profitable.

          I deal with geothermal exploration companies all of the time – ORMAT (a large Israeli geothermal company – with lots of power plants in Nevada), Chevron Geothermal – largest geothermal company in the world – have left USA mostly because of Fed Policy but making great discoveries in Indonesia and Phillipines, US Geothermal – is putting in the first geothermal power plant in Oregon – but ONLY on private land because the Fed Policy is so terribly onerous.

          THAT is the reason that geothermal is such a miniscule percentage of our total power – - Fed Policy of discouraging and exploration and development. I can give you ALL of the onerous rules that the fed has against geothermal but it would take up too much space – it is HORRIBLE!

          Geothermal will never replace oil, but I estimate that it could supply over 50% of our electricity needs in the west. Fed Policy towards geothermal has NOT changed – it is a consistent policy of discouraging any exploration and throwing up roadblocks to any geothermal development – WHY would the GOP do that? I don’t know.

          The ONLY places that geothermal companies will drill in Nevada or Oregon is on PRIVATE LAND – but that is only about 3% of the total – the US Fed Guvmint controls nearly all of Nevada and Eastern Oregon and lots of Utah.

          Your argument is that since geothermal production is small that it will always be small – a narrow and uneducated view. Just look at the Temp Gradient map of the USA – ENORMOUS potential but almost all of it is on Fed lands – so 90% of it is off-limits. THAT is the reason that we only have a very few geothermal fields on, mostly, private lands.

          Lay off with the name calling – doesn’t make you look good.

  • http://www.rgi@earthlink.net Solomon Hayes

    Thanks for the great article. It is imperative that our country drills for oil NOW. The only way for our country to recover from our current recession(depression) is to drill for oil NOW. Drilling for oil will bring down the current prices to a much more reasonable price, which will increase the income in the American consumer’s pocket to once again produce a thriving & growing economy. In addition, it will create industrial jobs & also reducing our debt to the rest of the world. The only candidate that should be elected to be President of the USA next term, is the candidate who will take on the ENVIROMENTALIST & issue an executive order to drill for oil with our latest technology safely in the areas that will have the least impact on our enviroment. And, I know there are plenty of places for those explorations. Had we started after the first energy crisis years ago, we would not be in our present situation. Our GREEN FRIENDS want us to believe everything that you have stated in your article. Michele Bachman was the only person to bring up the subject of drilling immediately to bring under control the price of energy. Increasing the supply of any product ALWAYS brings down the price of goods.I could gone about our country’s current situation, but the bottom line IS, OUR ENERGY INDEPENDENCE IS FOR SURVIVAL OF OUR COUNTRY. And once again, we will become & maintain our FINANCIAL LEADERSHIP. And also, let us not forget our GREAT COAL INDUSTRY. I have been wating for months to write this article. DRILL NOW FOR OUR ENERGY INDEPENDENCE & CONTROL OIL PRICING FOR THE REST OF THE WORLD. IT IS GOOD FOR THE ENTIRE WORLD ECONOMY.

  • chuckb

    energy is the controlling factor for political movements and people control. this country has never had an energy issue, only a political energy issue. do you think for a minute the investors in the market want our so called oil crisis to end, of course not. have you looked at the profits oil companies have exhibited for decades. the traders drive the prices by selling short. this constant energy scare is nothing but baloney, if the truth came out al gore and pickens probably make their profits off oil and promoting global warming, green energy is for idiots,. nothing but a sham.
    oil and gas are a renewable form of energy and we have enough on hand to last indefinitely. when they find something more profitable to use as energy then and only then will we see change.

  • Maryland Freestater

    A thought about solar:

    When “Ahnold’ was Gov. of Cucufornia, he wanted to establish a solar farm in the Mojave Desert. The good Senatresses of Cali refused to let him do so. BAAAAAAAAAAD idea, Senators.

    Simply put, deserts SUCK. Deserts are worthless and any sort of development like this is a PLUS. I think any ecologist who waxes floridly about desert ecologies and environments is an IDIOT- who the hell wants to live in a desert in the first place? And for animals, they’ve evolved to adapt to their environment but not out of some animalistic ecosaintliness. About the ONLY thing a desert IS worth is as a solar collector or photovoltaic farm. The recent Governator could’ve created a LOT of jobs and electricity with said plan.

    I’ve always liked solar – the idea of producing electricity from sunbeams is HIP! – BUT there need to be advances in the efficiency of collection AND freemarket solutions rather than government meddling. People also need to change their attitudes about: I’d like to see instead of dumbass wildflowers in the medians of RT50, the Interstates and all major Maryland thoroughfares photovoltaic panels, trees and such. Much as I’m against gov’t job initiatives, having a Photovoltaics Corps installing and maintaining PV grids throughout Maryland would both create a lot of non-dubious jobs AND harvesting electricity simultaneously…as long as the utilities are nominally involved, much less the (gag puke) unions…

    Wildflowers won’t power squat unless they’re fuel in a steam boiler.

    • 45caliber

      Maryland! I’m shocked! Are you trying to say that all the enviornomentists’ talk of how important the desert lifeforms are is wrong? How can you say such things?

      (Actually, I’ve been trying to sell such people a bridge for ages. You’d think anyone that stupid would buy, wouldn’t you?)

    • http://?? Joe H.

      Maryland,
      But what about all those little desert lizards and tortises??? Those poor widdle animals might have to move to another area! I read quite a bit about that site and how the greenies braged about defeating a solar plant in one of the most power strapped states in the country!! what a crock!!!

      • bob wire

        Hmm? I would think a solar array panels would make excellent shade for these little creatures in a land of little shade.

        Harnessing the Sun, still sounds like a worthy thing to consider and a desert seems a worthy place to do it on any scale.

        And we do use solar power and have for 30 years. I know of many different application within 3 miles of my home. It’s best for control systems and lighting at this point in time but that’s not it’s limits. It enables sites to be independent of the grid and over see automated operations. If by chance power is lost, the system continue to monitor and make decisions. It can initiate phone calls or emails and summons service.

        Thinking systems and machines will only become more common place with time. They are here to stay and solar/hightech battery’s is what will power them.

  • JeffH

    Play this “Methane Madness” game which trains online players to help “Pal Gore” control the climate by corking cows and watching them float away.

    Methane is more potent than CO2 as a greenhouse gas but less than 1% of atmospheric greenhouse gases come from cattle. Even so, radical climate campaigners call for shutting down our cattle and dairy industries along with much of the rest our economy. They’d like us to go vegan.
    http://methanemadness.cfact.org/?utm_source=CFACT+Updates&utm_campaign=7c5572b7a3-Play_Methane_Madness_Cork_Gore_climateday9_14_2011&utm_medium=email

  • Eric

    DaveH, I have been reading all the replies and you are spot on. The greenies are trying to force us to use something that really doesn’t exist yet. Add to this their bad sciense and the federal government ad you get the perfet mess. We have a huge debt thanks to big government, and we would not have this if we didn’t have Woodrow Wilson giving us the income tax and the FED (you remember his income
    tax, that would never go over 1%?). Now, the greenies want us to get the feds involved even more to “help us”. What a joke. To all you greenies, if you want solar, use it. If you want wind, use it. If you want water/wave turbine, use it. Use YOUR money and start YOUR company and leave me alone. I like oil, I like natural gas, coal and anything that gives me cheap enough energy that I can survive without taking out a mortgage to fill my car up. Capitalism works, if oyu let it. Problem is, we havn’t been letting capitalism work due to interference, especially from you greenies and all those who feel they can run my life better than I can. Well, I got my education and my profession and did not ask anything from anyone. I especially want nothing from you greenies now, including your advice. If you are truly a believer, then you can go to work to prove how great your alternatives are and I will listen. Until then, don’t just regurgitate the MSNBC crap lines and think you are in the right or even in the know. Want alternatives? Develop them. There is a system in place for that, called capitalism. I am involved in it every day.
    People like you just make it harder for people like me to do my work.
    Final note, want to see where the problem lies? Greenies, look in the mirror.

    • DaveH

      Thank you, Eric. And Good Comment.

  • eddie47d

    Don’t be so eager to drink their kool aid Eric.Open your mind and let the sunshine in.We can’t put all our duck in the same pond and expect the water to stay clean. The same with energy sources and our being venerable to foreign nations on such a large scale. There are many alternatives to go along with our current use of oil and gas and they are urgently needed to keep our country prosperous and stable. Oil is a one trick pony and makes us dependent without much to back it up. John Meyers says windmills kill birds yet the tar sands also kill birds so let’s keep all energy sources in development and in use. We have been digging/drilling for oil for a heck of a long time yet the more we drill the more we want and the more dependent we become on that one product.I’m not worried about running out of oil in my lifetime but there will be a slowdown eventually. Probably sooner than later. Those who advocate for constant drilling now will be rudely awaken when they are sitting on empty. Then the alternatives will be too hard to bring on line all at once and even more expensive.

    • speedle

      Eddie, you needn’t worry about alternative energy being available when it is viable. It will not be a sudden shock (as in you wake up one morning and no gasoline or fuel oil is available). It will be a gradual market driven transition (assuming we are allowed to get oil where ever we find it so that OPEC cannot create artificial pricing). And this is exactly how it will be done without turning the economy into instant chaos. Have a little faith in the free market. It has gotten us the prosperity we have.

    • DaveH

      Listen to Eddie advising Eric to “open” his mind. I guess Eddie would be an expert in that since he has long had wide open spaces between his ears.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        DaveH,
        Are you kidding?? you could yell in eddies ear and it will echo for an hour!!!

        • eddie47d

          Hey Joe is anybody home in the upstairs?

    • DaveH

      You can’t expect to garner much respect from the readers, Eddie, when you say such things as “our being venerable to foreign nations”. I know you meant vulnerable, but some people might be scratching their heads for some time trying to figure out how our commanding respect has anything to do with energy availability.
      You can waste your money on uneconomical alternative energies, Eddie, but I will continue to use the cheaper sources until they become too expensive. That gives me more time to read and think, so that I don’t argue about things that I know nothing about like you do, Eddie.

      • eddie47d

        I can handle your insults Dave and they only prove what little you have between your ears.

        • http://?? Joe H.

          EDDIE EDDie EDdie Eddie eddie ect, ect, ect!!!

          • eddie47d

            Joe Joe Joe Joe! Aren’t you intelligent Joe Joe Joe!!

        • DaveH

          Polly want a cracker, Eddie?

          • eddie47d

            Not from you Dave for it would be poisoned!

  • Always right

    I have a few problems with this article. “Fossil fuels”? Apparently he’s not heard of the abiotic oil theory, which is proving itself here and in the Dneipper(?) fields in Russia. If hydrocarbons are “fossil fuels” can somebody explain the fact that several of our solar system’s planets/moon with methane atmospheres? Did they have swamps full of dino’s at one time or could it prove the “abiotic” theory? And if the aboitic theory prves right, that sure blows the “peak oil” teory all to hell. Recent finds in the gulf and the Bakken fields pretty much disprove “peak oil” anyhow. There are huge reserves waiting to be tapped. if you buy the “peak oil” idea, you’l next have to acknowledge that we ran out in 2000. That is what was originally being touted.

    Next, if one followed the money they’d probably find T- Boone investing in start-up companies in which he was hoping people would invest since after all, an oil baron said it so it must be true. Hurry up and invest in “green” companies!

  • JeffH

    Brother Patriot, go to Gravatar.com. This is the site you can upload pictures on that will appear as your avatar on PLD.
    http://en.gravatar.com/

    Follow the directions and you can uplaod saved pictures from your computer.

    If you have any concerns, feel free to ask for help…I’ll help you any way I can.

  • H-Cubed

    I have read that the Russians have been performing research on oil generation since WWII. They believe the earth continually generates oil. It is an interesting hypothesis, but in this country the vast majority believes otherwise. Scientists have discovered methane nodules on the floor of the Caribbean. The methane probably came form dead bodies being eaten by anaerobic bacteria. These nodules could eventually be covered by underwater landslides and eventually become natural gas. Maybe our nation needs to be more open minded scientifically.

  • speedle

    You are 100% on the money Bob Livingston, and I couldn’t agree more.

  • http://none Kenneth D. Sabic

    Al Gore is a world government advocate. World government is about money and control. They envision fantastic profits from the green hoax and permanent control of the American people. Gore expects this control to extend to a world government with elite Marxist Socialist the controllers. Such as Al Gore, George Soros, Obama and others.

    What I wonder is: Where were the American people when these socialist were infiltrating our schools, colleges, churches, unions.
    How can Gays destroy the tradition of marriage when they only represent 6% of the population? All of this is to destroy the Christian religion. The Christian religion is the only religion that objects to homosexuality for religious reasons.

  • Ken

    The solution to our energy problem is hydrogen. The water molecule can be broken using its resonant frequency. Hydrolysis is inefficient. I believe that sound may be the key or perhaps a combination of both. The problem is that everybody wants to get rich off of their ideas/patents. So, a new idea comes down the pipeline and big oil buys it up. Somebody is going to have to solve the problem, then make it available to everyone for free. Nevertheless, hydrogen is the answer. Screw the infrastructure and make it right in the engine.

    • 45caliber

      From my chemistry days, it takes as much or more energy to break a molecule’s bond than is produced to recombine it. Energy is produced when a moleculte is created. If you seperate the water molecule, it requires more energy than you get when you burn hydrogen (and recombine the water molecule) and produce heat energy.

      I seriously doubt that anyone has figured out how to do away with this natural law despite what they say.

      Everyone who insists they can get around that law reminds me of a case I heard about many years ago. Someone “invented” a way to get fresh water from salt water. They sold it to the Arabs for millions. They had a pump that would suck up salt water and discharge two streams of salt water and fresh water. It turned out that they were piping in fresh water through the pipe handrail and injecting it into the pump via hollow anchor bolts. Every time someone says he can make energy by doing something like this reminds me of that con. To be truthful, I believe that most are actually trying to get research funds to “improve” their work so they can get a big salary without actually working for it.

  • Raggs

    Ya want to know the best way to cure this “crisis”?
    Stop using energy all together and live like cavemen and women. Afterall that is what we are heading towards with the communist king in the white house… Read agenda 21… I’m in AH about the total stupidity of those of you that believe in “global warming” / “climate change”… Get back with me when or if ever you get back on earth.

    • Karolyn

      We’d probably all be better off living like the colonists did.

  • Daniel C.

    Any one alive today and 100 years from now will depend on oil for so many things other than gas. When they can develop a Green Machine
    that will get me from San Clemente to Vegas and back on a single charge, and the replacement power source didn’t cost 15K to replace, I
    would be all in. Aint gona happen any time soon.
    You want to drop the price of oil 20%…….. Announce tomorrow we will start drilling in Alaska in the spring. We have just issued 200 new Drilling
    permits for on and off-shore leases……..Oil will drop like a rock. You want to see Oil drop another 15% plus…. Two weeks later announce
    that we are breaking ground on 2 new refineries and a continental pipeline system. Oil would level out at about 50% of today’s price.
    If we made those two thing’s good, That alone would create between 2.5 and 4 million direct and non-direct…… non-government long term
    job’s. We all know that Aint gona happen either because of our current Comander in Grief.

  • HarryButtle

    Americans consume 25 percent of the world’s produced oil, but our nation holds less than 3 percent of the world’s proven oil reserves.

    Energy Information Administration, “U.S. Crude Oil, Natural Gas and Natural Gas Liquid Resources, 1999 Annual Report,” DOE/EIA-0216 (99) (December 2000).

    The amount of economically recoverable oil in the Arctic Refuge, according to U.S. Geological Survey estimates, would increase world reserves by just 0.3 percent — not nearly enough to make a significant dent in our imports or to influence petroleum prices. Over the Arctic Refuge field’s 50-year life, it would likely produce less than what our country now consumes in six months, and less than 1 percent of the oil we are projected to consume over those 50 years.

    And there is no guarantee that oil recovered in the US would be consumed in the US.

    Another school of thought maintains that since there are only a few decades of oil left, we keep ours as a second national strategic reserve and not remove it now to be sold to other countries.

    • Daniel C.

      The numbers quoted for about Akaska are just flat wrong. The information in the 1999 and 2000 publications took between 2
      and 5 years to gather. the information was already dated when published. As of today that quoted information is well over a
      decade old. You need to up-date your Encyclopedia Britannica.
      With the current discoveries in the last few years and refined Down-hole techno’s, we have enough crude oil, shale oil,
      oil sand’s, NG, LNG to get us down the road the next 300 years. Check out the report’s from the companies that are actually
      putting down the money to get it out of the ground. One problem with my number. If the number of Illegal Aliens are allowed
      to expotentially explode as they are, that 300 year’s could be drastically cut.

  • Raggs

    Just because tha government said it’s so…

    Now be truthfull to yourself, how many times in the past years have you been told and you believed something you were told by the government?

    When was the last time that you made a decision based on what the government told you to do?

    When was the last time that you thought for yourself and you did what you thought was right?

    When did you start to believe a scientist or the TV or the news?

    I can go on but, all of these things have one common factor your dependance on what someone else told you…

    • eddie47d

      Same information I have heard and it’s not from a government source Raggs.(6 month supply in the arctic refuge). You never supply any facts in your comments Raggs why is that?

      • Raggs

        What FACTS do I need when I tell you that your mind is corrupt by the government?

        Can I show that to you?… How do I prove it in any other way than pointing out things that you will never be able to understand?

        You are asking if GOD exist? You are asking if man is the ultimate being and that he by himself controls everything?

        What do you want ed? Proof that we have destroyed the earth? You want proof that we have destroyed the earth without even giving consideration to the fact that we are not going to be saved by man?

      • DaveH

        Spewing something from your mouth, Eddie, does not make it a fact. Do you ever post references for your fabricated facts?
        You are the last person any of the regulars would assign credibility to.
        You’re just a useless troll who gets off on negative attention.

        • eddie47d

          I knew you would catch that Dave(or Jeff) and that was the whole point of saying it. You accuse me of “never” presenting facts or links yet you never demand the same from others such as Raggs and 90% of the other posters. That is why your attacks are nothing but B S propaganda for your own self interests. That makes you a hypocrite or a fool each and every time. Now do you comprehend yourself?

          • Jay

            I’ve yet to see you post a source eddie. Why is that?

  • HarryButtle

    Here in NE PA, gas drilling is very controversial. Not a week goes by but that the local news reports another area where the drilling companies are providing water buffaloes because wells have been contaminated. The “Gasland” examples of exploding wells and combustible tap water occurred about 20 miles from where I live. Recently, a tanker containing drilling toxins overturned and the area had to be quarantined until it could be cleaned up. Some of it trickled into a stream. The equipment is taking a toll on rural roads. The noise pollution is considerable. There are butt-ugly pipelines now crossing formerly bucolic pastures.

    Methane related to the natural gas industry has contaminated water wells in at least seven Pennsylvania counties since 2004 and is common enough that the state hired a full-time inspector.In one case, methane was detected in water sampled over 15 square miles. In another, a methane leak led to an explosion that killed a couple and their 17-month-old grandson.

    • Raggs

      Well why the hell dont you take your stupid [offensive word removed] to planet utopia where you can live in comfort from pipe dreams and wishfull thinking?
      Go already I will even BUY your ticket!!!!

      How do people get so STUPID ?

    • DaveH

      The creators of “Gasland” have spread their propaganda well, Harry.
      Did you read this one?
      http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=299889

  • HarryButtle

    It has been decades since coal was mined here in NE PA. But the negligence of the private sector continues to plague us. Mine subsidence is common under land public and private. In the pre-EPA, pre-regulation period, private sector companies would dump toxic and carcinogenic waste into abandoned mines. Acid rain from mid-west factories and power plants would flush out the chemicals and contaminate steams and rivers, even farmland. When I first moved here, culm dumps, (low quality coal) would catch fire and spew sulphur into the air that could be smelled from a long way off. At night, the burning embers inside were visible. A fire in a mine under Centralia, PA rendered the town uninhabitable. All of this took much public money to clean up. Even more, pre-OSHA coal mining occupational hazards caused illness and deaths. Black lung payments are another example of public funds being spent to clean up the negligence of the private sector. The private concerns plundered the local resources, grabbed huge profits and left the expensive clean-up to the communities they left behind. I expect the gas drilling industry will be much the same.

    I see from the audience reaction at the GOP debate that the death of poor people is a crowd pleaser, so I know appeals to your humanity will fall on deaf ears. I hope that appeals to your bank accounts will have some effect. Having witnessed this environmental carnage, when you call for the elimination of the EPA, OSHA and environmental regulation, I consider that a death threat against me, my family and my community.

    • Raggs

      [offensive post removed]

      • Karolyn

        And you, Raggs, are worse than that (I won’t bring myself down to your level, though it is very hard not to.) if you can’t see the truth in his post! Have you ever been through north central to northwestern PA?

        • DaveH

          There are pockets of methane, Karolyn, throughout our country. That is one of the main hazards involved in coal mining.
          One of the scenes in “Gasland” the enviro-propaganda film was about a man in Colorado whose tap water could be lit on fire. The film blamed “fracking”, but investigators found that the people who had drilled his well ran into a naturally occurring methane gas pocket.
          You really must open your eyes, Karolyn, to the fact that you are being propagandized by people who stand to gain from scaring you.

    • John

      The Centralia fire was started by someone who was burning trash at the local dump, not in a mine. The fire on the surface ignited coal veins which spread far and wide underground.

  • chuckb

    harrybuttle, you sound like an al gore trooper. if the area you live in is so dangerous, pack up and leave. you have been watching too many enviro movies. anything connected to this administration is unbelievable, we do have oil on both coasts of this country that can be drilled, we have ample reserves in alaska to last this country for a century, regardless of what the usga is trying to spin. the bakken reserves have more shale oil than saudi arabia. wait until the current environmentalist leave office and we will probably get a more favorable prediction. in 1972 the usgs showed we had oil reserves to last two hundred years, and an infinite supply of natural gas. you are believing too much green bs..
    we probably could obtain large amounts of crude oil from the so called depleted fields with the recovery process we have now. our main problem is the greenies and the traders on wall st. take crude out of the commodities market and watch what would happen.

    • eddie47d

      Well Chuck that is what most oil companies do …they do their damages then pack up and leave. How nice of you to tell folks if they don’t like clean water …tough…pack up and leave! How kind of you! How about those recent oil spills on the Kalamazoo River and the Yellowstone River. We can drill Baby Drill but who gets stuck with the environmental damages? The public!

      • Raggs

        Ed.. Im going to buy both you and your friend harry-butt a ticket to planet utopia.. one way only.. and NO refunds!

      • Karolyn

        So true, eddie. Look at how they’re taking off the tops of the mountains in W. Virginia and then planting grass. Big woop! The coal industry is changing the face of that state. Look at what it did to PA. Miles of barren hillsides. Here is a viewpoint that most here will probably laugh at:
        http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/09/14-11

        It so reminds me of the developer I heard many years ago in an interview who, when asked if all the land he was tearing up would alter his grandkids’ lives, responded more or less that he really didn’t care. All he cared about is making a buck right now.

        • DaveH

          Common Dreams? Is that what you guys base your opinions on? Don’t you know, Karolyn, that Dreams are not Reality?

          You really need to do some serious reading at some serious websites. Remove the blinders.

          • eddie47d

            Still playing smartazz right Dave? Pull your head out and see the damages that have been done. Oh I forgot Conservatives have selective seeing.

  • Libertarian58

    Oil is the cheapest (or should be) and most abundant form of energy we have. ENERGY is the biggest facilitator of LIBERTY we have, so you can see why the statists are so determined to limit the supply. . .

  • Raggs

    SO.. All… I am maybe the only one here that thinks that this is a “crisis” a fear mongering liberal progressive lie in order to complete the world order of a social dictator named oblama?

    Look no further than everything that he touches that stinks to high heaven.. oblama HATES Israel.. oblama Hates the free market system.. oblama wants to control everything you do..

  • ed

    Pickens is a Bilderberg Member. He is a POS. He is not only into oil he also has big stakes in the water industry.

    http://earthfirst.com/%E2%80%9Cblue-gold%E2%80%9D-t-boone-pickens-and-the-privatization-of-water/

  • chuckb

    eddie, karolyn, you two sound like people who buy property at the end of an airport runway then complain about the noise.

    • Karolyn

      Oh, really? Like the people who have lived their whole lives in W. Virginia who are trying to stop the mines from permanently changing the landscape of their beloved mountain state?

  • beacon

    Break the backs of the oil monopoly and guess who is the winner, you.

    Is there a answer to the problem? Perhaps.

    Try, with your open mind to look up PESWIKI and go from there.

    Thank you.
    Gord

  • robt shrugged

    all you people forget we have an oil feild in the Dakotas and montana that have more oil than the middle east, and alaska has large oilfeilds that have not been tapped because of the enviromentalists and their hatred of America and of that ability of capitalism to do what is needed to progress. futhermore the natural gas we have in the east and texas is a supply that will last 2oo years. by then we will find new energy sourses of energy and kinds of energy. you forget we are always finding new ways to do many things.

  • FreedomFighter

    After reading all these posts the one man with the answers has not been mentioned:

    TESLA

    Tesla was the inventor of AC current, not Edison, our entire system of distribution, electric motors, and radio/television are all based on TESLA patents.

    He also invented free electricity, his inventions are suppressed, his name erased from history. Even the Science Channel in a recent “Dark Matters” show pitted Edison vs Westinghouse in the ACvsDC current battle when in fact it was TESLA vs Edisons and TESLA won.

    TESLA even invented a car that ran on electricity that had no battery, no extension cord, and drove it around, not once ever refueling: because it didnt need to be refueled.

    Laus Deo
    Semper Fi

    • denniso

      There is no such thing as ‘free’ energy. Some costs more than others,some is simpler than others,but none is free.

      • bob wire

        I associate the word “free” with the word “void” ~ maybe other people don’t. Call me what you wish. But if “free” does exist, I’m not sure that you’d want some or if be of much benefit to you.

        • FreedomFighter

          Free as in once you build the device.

          Search the mans patents, you will be astounded.

          Laus Deo
          Semper Fi

    • bob wire

      “TESLA

      Tesla was the inventor of AC current, not Edison, our entire system of distribution, electric motors, and radio/television are all based on TESLA patents.”

      I’ve never been able to separate fact from fiction about this man and his work. I believe Rail Gun theory started with Tesla.

      All very interesting !

      I want to believe “Gravity” is the energy of the future. Unfortunately space & time & gravity are connected, making it a hard nut to crack.

      Where did my tin foil hat go!

      • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

        bob wire,
        You are right.
        Tesla would not accept the Nobel Prize in science,because he would have to share it with Edison.Edison took credit for a lot of inventions that weren’t his,but Telsa’s.

        • Dan az

          coal
          Even the haarp project is his,he warned about it and the gubmnt just booh hoohd him and kept going with it up to today.Amazing mind for the times.He’s my favorite and I doubt we’ll see another in our life time.

          • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

            Dan az
            Edison not stole ideas from Tesla,but other inventors as well.

            Contrary to what schools have taught for years, the American icon, Thomas Edison, neither invented the light bulb, nor held the first patent to the modern design of …

            http://www.coolquiz.com/trivia/explain/docs/edison.asp

      • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

        bob wire,
        Gravity is the weakest force in nature.The more massive the object,the stronger the gravitational attraction.Here are the four forces of nature.

        Scientists have described four different kinds of forces in nature:
        Electromagnetic
        Electric and magnetic forces result from a property of particles called electric charge. Charged particles exert electric forces on each other, and moving charges produce magnetic fields; magnetic and electric forces are considered to be different aspects of the same force.
        Strong Nuclear
        This is the strongest of the four forces; it’s the force that holds the particles in the nucleus of an atom together. It has to be much stronger than the electromagnetic force, because it is able to overcome the force of the positively charged protons, which try to repel each other. However, this very strong force acts over only very small distances … the size of a nucleus.
        Weak Nuclear
        This is a force which is involved in the radioactive decay of some nuclei; it is similar to the electromagnetic force, which leads scientists to believe that all four forces may really be different aspects of one single force.
        Gravity:
        This is the weakest of the four forces. It exists between all objects, and can act over long distances. For example, it holds the earth in orbit around the sun, and all the stars together in our galaxy.

        • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

          bob wire

          Also another
          Introduction:By Oracle
          At the temperatures common to our world, four discrete forces govern the interactions of matter – gravity, electromagnetism, the weak nuclear force, and the strong nuclear force. Each force is carried by a separate “messenger particle” unique to it and still being researched. The strong force is by far the strongest of the forces, followed by the electromagnetic force, the weak force, and finally the extremely feeble gravitational force. Though these four forces govern every matter interaction, a theory that unites them all is still being sought. The most recent candidate is string theory, further discussed in Introduction to String Theory.

          Messenger Particles
          There is a unique messenger particle associated with each of the four fundamental forces. These particles can be considered the “smallest amount” of each force than can exist in nature. Experiments have confirmed the existence of three of the four particles, but the graviton has yet to be discovered. Calculations show that it should be massless. The weak gauge bosons come in two separate varieties with different masses.

          Force Particle Mass
          Gravitational Force Graviton 0
          Electromagnetic Force Photon 0
          Weak Nuclear Force Weak Gauge Bosons 86, 97
          Strong Nuclear Force Gluon 0

          Gravity
          Gravity, the weakest of the four forces, is about 10-36 times the strength of the strong force. This weakness is easily demonstrable – on a dry day, rub a comb across your shirt to give it static electricity, then hold it over a piece of paper on a desk. If you were successful, the piece of paper lifts off the desk. It takes an entire planet to keep the paper on the desk, but this force is easily overcome with everyday materials employing the electromagnetic force.

          However, the range of gravity is unlimited – every object in the universe exerts a gravitational force on everything else. The effects of gravity depend on two things: the mass of two bodies and the distance between them. In more precise terms, the attractive force between any two bodies is directly proportional to the product of the masses and inversely proportional to the square of the distance between the bodies. The dominance of gravity on macroscopic scales is due not to any intrinsic strength but instead to its enormous range and constant attractive nature, especially as compared to the other forces. These properties of gravity have made it extremely difficult to incorporate gravity into modern theoretical frameworks.

          The messenger particle of gravity is the graviton. It has not been experimentally verified, mainly because it is extremely hard to find the smallest denomination of the weakest force. Recent calculations show that it will likely be massless. Interestingly, all versions of modern string theory incorporate gravity (unlike previous quantum theories) and not only allow but require a particle with the properties of the graviton. Its discovery will likely represent a major victory for string theory, since previous quantum theories based on the model of point particles give illogical, infinite answers when gravity is incorporated.

          Electromagnetism
          The electromagnetic force is actually second in effective strength only to the strong force, but it is listed out of order here because it, like gravity, is more familiar to most people. Its strength is less than 1% of that of the strong force, but it, like gravity, has infinite range. However, unlike gravity, the electromagnetism has both attractive and repulsive properties that can combine or cancel each other out. Whereas gravity is always attractive, electromagnetism comes in two charges: positive and negative. Two positive or two negative things will repel each other, but one positive and one negative attract each other. This can be neatly illustrated by magnets: two of the same “pole” will repel each other, but two opposite poles attract each other.

          This is the principle that keeps atoms together: the positively charged nucleus and the negatively charged electrons attract each other. This is also the principle of atomic size: more electrons have greater repulsive force, so atoms with more electrons are larger because of the electrons’ mutual repulsion. Similarly, atoms with larger nuclei and the same number of electrons are smaller overall because they exert a greater attractive force on the electrons.

          The messenger particle of electromagnetism is the photon, a massless particle that logically (since light is a manifestation of electromagnetism) travels at the speed of light (299 792 458 m/s or 299 972 km/s).

          The Weak Nuclear Force
          The weak nuclear force is one of the less familiar fundamental forces. It operates only on the extremely short distance scales found in an atomic nucleus. The weak force is responsible for radioactive decay. In actuality, it is stronger than electromagnetism, but its messenger particles (W and Z bosons) are so massive and sluggish that they do not faithfully transmit its intrinsic strength.

          The Strong Nuclear Force
          The strong nuclear force is the other unfamiliar fundamental force. Like the weak force, its range is limited to subatomic distances. Its “duties” are keeping quarks together inside protons and neutrons, and keeping protons and neutrons inside atomic nuclei. Its messenger particle is the massless gluon, so named because it “glues” elementary particles together.

          If the Forces Were Different . . .
          Just as questions arise about the reasons behind the properties of elementary particles, scientists wonder about the reasons behind the properties of the forces and their particles as well. For example, why are three of the messenger particles massless, and the fourth is one of the heaviest known particles? Similarly, why do the ranges and strengths of the forces differ so drastically? Yet it cannot be disputed that the universe would be strikingly different if the force properties were otherwise. The formation of stable nuclei depends on the ratio of the strong and electromagnetic forces – the protons in a nucleus repel each other, but the strong force overcomes this repulsion. A small change in their relative strengths could allow the electromagnetic force to overcome the strong force, and atoms could not exist. If electrons were any more massive, then electrons and protons would be disposed to bond and form neutrons, thus disrupting the formation of heavy elements. The strength of gravity is also important: if it were any stronger, stellar matter would bind more strongly and stars would use their nuclear fuel much faster, thus negating the possibility of the evolution of life. If gravity were any weaker, matter might not “clump together” to form larger structures, thereby preventing the formation of stars in the first place. The answer to the question of why the forces are the way they are may yet come with string theory.

    • Dan az

      Freedom
      Do you have a site that I could find on that car?I try to read every thing I can on him and haven’t run acrossed that yet!What a mind!

  • Gilles

    We have large and available stores of natural gas and converting a large portion of our transportation sector to natural gas is a viable alternative to OPEC oil. We would be largely independent for our energy needs, reduce our balance of payments issues, and could forget sending our sons to fight in the middle east. The cost of the conversion initially would be large but being independent in energy is a national security issue that is worth the investment.

  • Jay

    Whatever happened to President Obama’s urgent campaign appeal to “free America from dependency on foreign oil”? In eleven short months, the Obama administration has made more mistakes on energy policy than did Jimmy Carter in his entire term, and that’s saying something.

    If the president wishes to free America from dependence on foreign oil, he should be encouraging the production of reliable energy supplies in this country. What has he done to encourage more production of coal, oil and gas, and nuclear energy? The answer is that he has done nothing. All the president has done, including promotion of aggressive new EPA enforcement intended to address the fictitious “problem” of climate change, discourages new exploration and production. The result is that our future supplies of energy are at risk.

    Not only has the president done nothing to promote new supplies of energy, but he has also done much to impede them. American oil companies are now afraid to pursue new exploration because of the onerous regulatory, tax, and environmental policies being proposed or already set in place by the Obama administration and Congress. Meanwhile, just as Obama’s assault on the domestic oil industry has blocked new exploration, foreign companies are buying up leases and bringing new supplies online. As a result, America will be even more dependent on foreign suppliers than it was before Obama became president.

    http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/12/the_obama_energy_fiasco.html

    • Dan az

      Jay
      Makes ya think that he’s trying his damnest to break the back of this nation huh?Yet the sheeple just keep backing him WTF?

  • CJM

    If I remember correctly, Al Pickens wind farm went under..not enough wind to produce the grand amount of energy he claimed it would. Unfortunately, we do not have a viable substitute for oil and the plan to use corn for fuel is ludicrous since it significantly reduces the food base. We could reduce our reliance on the ME for oil if we would drill our own, but numbnuts in the Oval Office banned Americans from drilling oil and gave the permission to South America and China to drill off-shore–now where’s the sense in that? As for the solar panels, what happens when the stored reserves are used and the sun still isn’t shining? There are times in the winter when we have overcast days for weeks. Not that I know a great deal about so-called green energy, it seems to me that the plans we hear aren’t well-thought out and raise more questions then they do answers. It is like the nuclear power problem: sure, nuclear power is fine, but no one thought about the toxic waste problem before they built all those plants. End result: contamination and a huge threat to all living things.

  • http://Libertyalert Michel Condon

    Brazil is not dependant on foriegn oil because they make Ethanol from sugar cane to run their cars. They found oil recently and will probably export it.

  • http://JRCArchitect@comcast.net James

    Read Gold’s book, “Deep Hot biosphere” and you will them understand why these nasty “fossil” fuels are really renewable.” Now let’s get it it right

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