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More Privacy Lost

January 5, 2011 by  

More Privacy Lost

A California Supreme Court ruled Jan. 3 that defendants lose their rights to privacy for any items they’re carrying — including electronic devices — when they’re taken into custody.

The 5-2 ruling came in a drug case involving Gregory Diaz who was arrested after police say they watched him make a drug deal. Police searched Diaz’s cell phone and found a text message that linked him to the sale, according to the Court.

The decision allows police “to rummage at leisure through a wealth of personal and business information that can be carried on a mobile phone or handheld computer merely because the device was taken from an arrestee’s person,” Justice Kathryn Mickle Werdegar said, according to a report in the San Francisco Chronicle. She was joined in dissent by Justice Carlos Moreno.

This is an issue that has divided the courts and so will probably end up in the United States Supreme Court. In 2007 a U.S. District Judge in San Francisco ruled that police had violated drug defendants’ rights by searching their cell phones after their arrests. The Ohio Supreme Court reached a similar decision in 2009, according to the report in the Chronicle.

The latest California ruling has devastating consequences for privacy. If you are suspected of committing a crime and are detained by police — in California, at least — they can search through any electronic device you are carrying. With the wealth of data that people store in their telephones and computers today, this opens up a person’s entire life history to scrutiny by law enforcement. In a country where almost every action has become a crime (see Three Felonies A Day: How The Feds Target The Innocent) this could subject innocent people — from the original suspect to his business associates and friends — to a myriad of legal problems.

The 4th Amendment is a clear indication of what the Founding Fathers thought about the potential for the State to abuse its citizens through unreasonable searches and seizures. But in a police state — like the one America has become — a silly thing like “The Bill of Rights” has no meaning.

Bob Livingston

is an ultra-conservative American and author of The Bob Livingston Letter™, founded in 1969. Bob has devoted much of his life to research and the quest for truth on a variety of subjects. Bob specializes in health issues such as nutritional supplements and alternatives to drugs, as well as issues of privacy (both personal and financial), asset protection and the preservation of freedom.

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  • Bill

    I do not support Diaz in his drug dealing efforts,but he should have been smart enough to require a passcode to enter his phone. This would have denied the police entry to his private information.

  • Dmobile215

    All he needed was a Jewish Lawyer and his ass would be home!
    Making another deal….lol freedom in America is a joke!

    • skipfoss

      I don’t know what you ment by by that anti-semetic remark,but but if he had a Muslim lawyer eh would not have to even post bond .Since this half breed muslim communist Kenyain and George have stolen the office our freeedoms are daily being taken away and if we don’t do something now while we still have the right to impeach this wan’a be dictator there will be war in the streets worse than it is now. I for one will not be told what I can or can not due to protect my life from the obama-care death squad’s

  • sean murrey

    Looks like a police state.

    • Bleh

      Sells like a police state.

      • Bleh

        SMells like a police state.

        • Christin

          Must BE a police state!


    Passwords can be hacked, but a second phone for buisness and leave one for personal use at home.

  • Howard R Gray

    Have no fear the state is here! Are people surprised by this invasion of privacy? Not really, there are a several things to consider, this case, or the next one like it will go eventually to the Supreme Court for consideration, there is no reason to believe that this ruling will stand in its entirety.

    All phone traffic one must assume, for practical purposes if you are a criminal, has been prebugged and available to the police and other operatives of the commonweal. It is no more invasive than a long range microphone hearing what you say. If you are crook don’t be surprised if your conversations and other activities germane to your drug dealing become a matter of law enforcement interest. In the UK the Crown v Sang long removed any protection from illegally gotten evidence, the result is the savvy criminal, you know the ones that never get caught, adjusts his activities to suit the moment. The real issue is the rest of us that can get snared in this invasive mandate, Judge Werdegar is right in her dissent and that might just end up being the law, until then you know what to do.

    As always with the criminal law the matter of liberty is trapped in the need to suppress crime, one way to prevent abuse is to encourage the courts to hand down massive financial penalties where the police or other law enforcement and Para law enforcement officials go fishing and attack the innocent. The real deal here is to ensure that the miscreant officials are made to pay first and, when their funds are exhausted then, and only then, does the tax payer pick up the tab. Only such an arrangement will act to procure a more just approach to illegal searching. Unless the penalty for searching the innocent is personal the taxpayer always bails out the immoral official with ease, this must stop. Illegal or unfounded searches must carry a component of risk to the official that should dampen the need to search unless there is clear and apparent cause. No doubt officials will carry some form of insurance, well and good, that will defray the cost of illegal and unfounded searches away from the tax payers.

    We shall see what the High Court has to say on the matter my vote is with this kind of searching being trimmed or banned, but I could be wrong.

    • ValDM

      I doubt this will make it to SCOTUS. It goes hand-in-glove with the expanded powers granted thruout the years to the RICO Act. Now, all you have to be is accused of a crime (not convicted, just accused) and the govt. can seize your bank accts and real property. Even if you aren’t convicted, you’ll likely not get your property returned to you without a protracted and expensive lawsuit. How can you manage a lengthy and expensive lawsuit without any assets???? This is happening NOW, but we’re not hearing any of it thru the media. Additionally, if a crime occurs on your property, even without your knowledge, law enforcement can seize the property. The property is guilty, even though you may not be.

  • Kevin

    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized

    • Roy

      What is the matter with you, Kevin. Don’t you know that the constitution
      is an outdated useless document?

      • DaveH

        My daughter’s political science teacher actually told the students that the second amendment was passed in times where guns were necessary but in modern times it no longer carries any weight.

        • TIME


          Thats a NEA program as far as I can tell its been around for about 25 plus years now as my son also told me that back in the early 1980′s when he was in grade school.

          People the ones calling the shots have a Plan for you and its not a nice summer at a lake side camp roasting Smoors and telling stories about things that go bumb in the night.

          Your about to enter “ROOM 101,” can you grasp that?

  • Wanda Murline

    They do it everyday at the air ports…illegal searches and seizures…pulling someone out of line for absolutely no reason…no probable cause…no warrant…no attempt to contact a lawyer…if this is not a police state called the TSA, nothing is. I am wondering when people are going to start filing class action law suits against TSA and Janet Napoleon. I would have thought that they already would have…I certainly would have filed one had I been the guy that had his urine bag smashed and urine spilled all over me after repeatedly telling the TSA idiots of his condition. It is time to start suing these people.

    • taxpayer

      Janet Napoleon is not concerned with the law or citizens. She is working on the next invasion of our body and belongings. She will then leave this job as others before her and go to work with the new contacted government molester system. There are so many laws that each one of us has broken and could go to jail. We are all criminals until proven innocent. The TSA’s big worry is the grandmother bomber that is looking to take down an airplane and her grandkids! Good grief!

      • http://none THOMAS PAIN


        • Christin

          Janet Gay Napolitano can’t help AZ and has an Anti-American citizen Terrorist Pamphlet is too, doo doo… okay, your word fits better.

          Tell me what moron put her in charge of securing America, huh, surely not anyone with a clue.

  • Kevin

    Now, with that being said, what’s to say you are pissed at your school board, or about a property tax bill you just received, etc. etc., and you text your spouse or buddies something nasty about the situation just to vent …
    Next thing you are pulled over for a traffice infraction, they take your phone, and it’s off to the brig for you, you terrorist!

    • http://none Mike

      Kevin, I tried to warn people about a month back. When it was found that certin smart phone apps were shareing your info with 3rd parties. It was just a short step from there to shareing your info with the authorities. Mike L.

  • bear

    And now, Obama wants to by-pass congress and using executive order, require all gun dealers within all border states to report to the BATF any citizen who purchases more than two rifle withing a five day priod. This includes any rifle greater than .22 caliber, semi-automatic and with a detachable magazine. The report is to include the type of rifle, the serial number, the purchaser’s address and contact information. All this because, as he puts it, there is too much violence going on along our borders and it needs to be dealt with. We knpow that less than 5% of all guns confiscated from drug cartel raids and skirmishes come from within this country. All of this is being initiated by Obama because the Congress wouldn’t touch it. So, instead of bringing in U.S. military troops to secure our borders and protect our citizens, he proposes to initiate gun registration in Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California. People, this IS the prelude to gun confiscation. When the BATF was formed, we were told that the BATF would not collect information about individual firearms purchases and no record of any kind would be initiated to collect information about the guns that private citizens purchased or owned. Yet, there is now a form for multiple handgun purchases which gives the BATF all of your perosnal information and all the informnation about the handguns you purchased when you purchase more than one handgun at the same time. THIS IS GUN REGISTRATION BEING DONE BY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND THEY HAVE ALREADY BEGUN COLLECTING INFORMATION ON WHO HAS THE GUNS. WAKE UP AMERICA! Our two party system was destroyed year ago. It happened when individuals with Marxist, Socialist and Communist ideals infiltrated both parties and ran for office. It didn’t matter who got elected, their agendas would continue to move forward. Their plans to gradually take away our rights and make our Constitution and Bill of rights meaningless has continued and now here we are today facing the realization that we might be back on the doorstep of another American Revolution. Are we so caught up in our own little worlds that we are afraid to fight back? You bet! And that’s exactly what they are counting on.

    • Teresa

      Your right on it….I have been yelling about this FOREVER….get ready…PLEASE WAKE UP PEOPLE…stay on your congressmen…this is a case we can not afford to loose!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • eddie47d

      You have to inch a little closer to the truth if you want someone to believe you. From January 2007 to April 2010 72,949 weapons were seized in Mexico. 80% of those that could be traced came from the USA. On May 11,2010 in Nuevo Leon (on border) their government seized 124 assault rifles,15 handguns,3 anti-tank rockets and 1,375 ammo magazines from drug traffickers. Guess where these weapons came from and no it wasn’t the tooth fairy. X-Caliber Guns store in Phoenix is one of the biggest offenders. With 7,000 gun dealers along the border I guess it doesn’t matter. Mexico has only one gun dealer and that is in Mexico City. It is mostly for police and military although private citizens can purchase there also. Since the majority of weapons are not from Eastern European countries like the right likes to claim or from the Mexican government. That means we are arming the drug wars and the thousands of deaths in Mexico.

      • Teresa

        eddie, obama spent his whole career doing nothing but trying to ram amnesty down our throats…he rubs shoulders w/mexico’s president and NOW all the sudden he is worried about our gun control????……WHY DON’T YOU TELL THE TRUTH!

        • bear

          Thanks for jumping in there Teresa. True enough. My satistics come from sources like WND and the NRA. They still show that less tha 5% of all guns confiscated from drug raids and skirmishes come from the United States. Eddie47D says there are 7,000 gun dealers along the border while talking about one gun shop in Phoenix. Am I to conclude that there are 7,000 gun dealers along the Arizona border or does he mean the Texas, Arizona, New Mexico and California borders? I am a gun dealer and I have tried to determione how many gun dealers there are in each of our border states and in cities and towns along our border and can find nowhere near the 7,000 you claim exists along those borders. Please provide your sources for this information and we will all try to stick to the facts. You also state that 80% of all those that could be traced came from the United States. One must also conclude that many guns in Mexico cannot be traced because the places they came from do not have a system in place like we do to trace them. Thus it is just as logical that I conclude that the 80% you talk about could amount to as little a 20 guns. Eddie, you throw out a lot of numbers but they are meaningless like most of the information thrown out by this administration. Present you sources for these numbers and the information about the gun shop in Phoenix. Thanks, Bear

          • Teresa

            I do not think people are Even aware of the True dept of the reality of what really is at stake here…PLEASE WAKE UP PEOPLE! If you do anything you better stay on top of this, for our very lives are at risk, once we are disarmed, they have COMPLETE CONTROL!

          • Earl

            Actually, I seem to recall a figure a while back from reputable sources that the actual number was 17%. That sounds much more reasonable. Mr. 80 % you’re fulla crap and a gun grabber…………

      • TIME


        If you looked over the picture of these {alledged GUNS,} what one would see quite clearly is that “80% or more” are <> and just so you know this little tid bit of intel, “WE DON’T MAKE AK 47′s” but they are made in the following areas, Russia, China, North Korea, Nam, Cuba, South America, almost every country within, as a matter of fact many Eastern European Countries too.

        • thinking

          But Obama says they came from the US and most from Texas. He is the president and he doesn’t lie!

          • TIME

            Oh Thanks for clearing that up for me, no really thanks…..LOL

        • Vicki

          Eddie doesn’t even understand that Americans CAN NOT BUY AK47s legally. So where is the market for them? Where is the purpose of reporting every legal purchase of a firearm? Obviously it is to register gun owners in the US and has nothing to do with controlling the alleged selling, in the US, of AK47′s to illegal aliens from Mexico.

          • eddie47d

            X-Caliber Guns sold those AK-47′s and that was included in a total of 700 assault weapons that they were caught selling. This was over several months and some of them were purchased from undercover ATF. Since they are illegal to sell then why aren’t the owners of this shop in jail. The gun lobby went to court and stopped the prosecution cold. So who controls these illegal actions and the flow of guns in America? Sorry, once again it’s not the tooth fairy no matter how bad you want it to be. The person who provided this information to the Washington Post is Terry Goddard, Arizona’s Atty. General. Those 7,000 gun dealers are within 100 miles of the the 4 border states. A little added information;We’ll move the issue to Wisconsin. Badger Guns of West Milwaukee is the largest gun dealer in the nation that has sold more guns that are used in crimes. They have held that title for several years which is hardly anything to be proud of. Their guns are sold to gang members and also traced to at least 6 cop shootings since 2007.1,115 of their guns traced to crime between 1996 and 1998. 537 traced back to this store in 2005. The NRA and the GOA will not be telling you those facts. The bottom line is that gun dealers in America quite often play loose with the laws and maybe just a few are downright criminal.

          • Al Sieber

            Vicki, you can buy AK47′s in Ariz., Mini 14′s, US .30 caliber carbines, .223 Bushmasters, UZI’s , Tec 9′s etc. but they are semi auto. you need a special licence to buy or posses a fully auto. some friends of mine put on machine gun shows around the country, they have some of the oldest made, up to the newest and you can shot any one you want.

      • independant thinker

        “80% of those that could be traced came from the USA. On May 11,2010 in Nuevo Leon (on border) their government seized 124 assault rifles,15 handguns,3 anti-tank rockets and 1,375 ammo magazines from drug traffickers.”

        One key point is THAT COULD BE TRACED. Only a small percent of the total guns captured were even submitted for tracing. The ones submitted were the ones that might could be traced to the US.

        Another key point, to my knowledge you cannot legaly purchase anti-tank rockets anywhere in the US.

        If that gun store had sold 124 true Assualt Rifles in one sale or in a very short time the BATF would be on them like stink on a hog they would not wait for the guns to be captured and then just say “well the guns came fron this place”.

      • Al Sieber

        eddie47d, sure, I’ve never seen a anti-tank weapon (Laws Rocket)at a gun show or in a gun shop in Ariz. or grenade launcher or any fully automatic weapons.

  • Star827

    I’m all for not having illegal search and seizure.I’m all for the government staying the hell out of my personal business.However,if I commit a crime,and I am under investigation,the last time I checked – when a person is arrested-said person pretty much is subject to whatever means necessary to find evidence because when the crime was committed, said person LOST their RIGHTS!!!
    It used to be when you went to jail,you didn’t get to work,vote,get an education.Now,the criminals have it better than a lot of citizens out there!
    Three square meals,clean laundry,showers,toiletries,books,video game systems,flat screen t.v.s,movie nights,in prison concerts,free college education….but yet I can’t get a free education for my kids or me!!If you’re a criminal,you should have no rights.Have you seen how criminals are treated in other countries?
    If the police were not able to access this criminal’s cell phone,they might not have found the evidence to convict them.Now,I’m not saying there isn’t abuse of these things in the system.That’s wrong as well.But if you keep screaming “rights! rights! rights!” pretty soon – the poor wittle (misspelling intended)cwiminals will be coming for you.There won’t be jails – it’s too inhumane.There won’t be ANY consequences for wrongdoing.We’re darn near at that point.
    STAND UP FOR MORALS AND WHAT’S RIGHT!! WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE???!!! QUIT letting CRIMINALS walk all over us and start taking this country back!! This mamby-pamby molly-coddle everyone attitude needs to GO!!!

    • Bob Livingston

      Dear Star827,

      You write: “However,if I commit a crime,and I am under investigation,the last time I checked – when a person is arrested-said person pretty much is subject to whatever means necessary to find evidence because when the crime was committed, said person LOST their RIGHTS!!!”

      Not every person under investigation nor every person ever arrested is/was guilty of the crime(s) they were suspected of committing. Therefore, just being under investigation or being under arrest does not automatically deprive them of their rights. In fact, our Founders wisely wrote and ratified the 4th, 5th 6th and 8th Amendments which grant special rights to the accused. The Founders had experience with officers of the British military and legal system that made them understand the danger posed when authorities could rifle through personal belongings at will. And our legal system is predicated on the notion that the accused is innocent until such time as the state proves its case that the defendant is guilty.

      You should not be so willing to callously throw away your own rights just because you disapprove of the “alleged” activity of another. We are better served if 100 guilty people go free because we live in society that respects and enforces our rights granted us by God and expressed in our Constitution and our laws than if one innocent person is imprisoned because we live in a totalitarian police state. I would not wish to live in the society you describe, that when a person is under investigation or arrested “said person pretty much is subject to whatever means necessary to find evidence because when the crime was committed, said person LOST their RIGHTS!!!”

      Does “whatever means necessary” extend to torture, or does it stop at interrogating your friends and family, or just rifling through all of your belongings and household? This sounds more like life in the former Soviet Union, Communist China and Cuba and under Muslim theocracy than life in a free Republic.

      Best wishes,

      • DaveH

        I agree, Bob. I think most people suffer from what I call the “Movie Syndrome”. They watch those movie dramas and see clearly who the bad guys are, and they project that onto real life. But in real life, it isn’t anywhere near that cut and dry. As a result, in real life many innocent people get arrested and harassed by the authorities.
        I think also, that we have been conditioned in the Government Schools to believe that officers of the Government always have pure intentions. That is far from the truth.

        • eddie47d

          “government schools teach that police have good intentions”? What is this government school you are talking about? Certainly not public schools where you say that they are run by unions and ant-authoritarian teachers? You can’t have it both ways Dave. If you are talking about these public schools (run by liberals as you have said) then you have it backwards. Liberals are hardly in love with government goons who broke into their homes,wiretapped and beat on them in the 60′s. Personally, I respect all cops until they do something wrong and then Lord have mercy on their souls. Unfortunately the bad cops seldom get convicted and I’ve written letters to the editors complaining about that. If they do a crime then they should also do the time.

          • DaveH

            Where do you come up with your nonsense, Eddie? Is that a Saul Alinsky tactic — putting words in peoples’ mouths?

          • Carol

            For once I agree with you Eddie. I have seen people harrassed by bad cops, and have been myself—-by the same 2 cops. One in Vallejo, CA and one in Reno, NV. Eventually, both were caught and convicted, but the one in Vallejo had both of his sons on the police force by that time. All 3 are now doing time. The one in Reno was finally charged with sexual harrassment, but it took 15 years before he was finally caught. I don’t know what happened with him because I moved back to CA before he was tried.
            As far a cell phones go, I don’t own one and never have. I would if it was just a phone, but I don’t want or need all the bells and whistles.

          • Carol

            Sorry about the mistatement. I said both were convicted, but like I said at the end, I don’t know about the one in Reno. I just know they finally caught up with him

      • bear

        I believe Star827 is beginning to get a bit like us, riled up at what’s going on in America. What we must do, however, is not make assumptions like the one about “giving up rights if under investigation.” You are correct about our founding fathers and their intent while constructing a document to proclaim to future generations of citizens as well as would be infringers that we the people are a free people and would not be subject to the procedures that they endured under English rule. What we are responsible for is knowing what is written in that Constitution and in the Bill of Rights and vigerously defending them each and every time we see any individual trying to ignore, violate, or circumvent them. That is what needs to come to fruition right now because this out of control Obama administration is doing every one of those things. I do not want to see blood shed in another revolution, but, if that’s what it takes, we have 88 million gun owners in America and that potentially constitutes the largest military force in the world. It’s way past time to start pushing back.

    • TIME

      The way it works / used to work – is “your Innocent” – until proven guilty by way of legal method’s that fail to infringe on YOUR RIGHTS.
      Its not the other way around.

      If you did something wrong you have the fith amendment to aid in your own defence, as well your granted Legal aid if you can’t afford it.
      *** And just for the record, many of these folks that do Pro Bono work are top notch laywers, in some cases better than ones that cost $1200.00 PLUS ~ per hour.

      Perhaps a few hours in “ROOM 101″ would be in order for you to better understand just how bent your thinking is.
      As in to aid you in seeing the light of what FREEDOM really means.

  • Robin from Arcadia, IN

    It would seem like a warrant would be needed to go through personal property. We will continue to lose our rights all the while it will be proclaimed that it is for our own good.

  • marvin

    a few months back in atlanta ga the cops arrested a drug user and offered him a deal rat on someone so he said that this old lady was dealing from her house she was 82 ,the cops without watching her or getting any other evidence kicked her door in at 2 am the 82 year old get out of bed get her gun to see what is going on seeing people in her house she shoots at the cop they murdered the old lady then started looking for drugs not finding any they got their own and planted them then tryed to get the informent to say he had got drugs from her he refused say he would not lie and help them coverup a bad bust with cops like this who need criminals,so never think this an,t going on,same thing just happed to the people next door to me a drug dealer they had arrested said they were making meth they had a 20# propane tank on their front so the cop at 6.30am knocked 3 or 4 times then try kicking the door down befor the people could get out of bed after going thru their house and not finding anything they left this happened cause i was on my porch drinking cofee and saw it

    • DaveH

      Dishonest cops seem to be the rule. Most that I have known will lie in an attempt to convict somebody they think is a “dirtbag”.

      • TIME


        Thats been my experience as well.

        Look folks a uniform fails to make a person a saint, just as a suit fails to make someone honest!

        Will you all please wake up before your in ROOM 101.

      • http://none Mike

        The saying around my neck of the woods was. The cops allways have the best dope. And guess what they did. Mike L.

        • TIME


          Thats one that follows around the whole USA……..

      • Thor

        Does your experience come from having been arrested, Dave?

    • Thor

      Marv, your observations from the front porch does not give you insight into even a fraction of the information and intelligence the cops may have had.

  • DaveH

    Once again, the drug laws have been used as an excuse to trample our Constitutional rights.

  • Raggs

    I agree that criminals need to be put behind bars, but this is going to cost the average law abiddibg citizen his or hers rights of innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.
    Furthermore this will open the door to a police state whereas if you are even a suspect of an aledged illegal activity ( without proof of such ) you will be treated as a criminal until you can prove yourself innocent. The next step? home invasions by police just because they think you are doing something that they dont like?

    • DaveH

      Not only that. I think most of us have had one person or another who really didn’t like us in our lives. Now, suppose that person is a cop or otherwise politically connected. Imagine how easy it is for them to harrass people just because they don’t like them.
      True story — My brother advised me to plant drugs in my ex-wife’s car and then give police an anonymous tip. How easy would that be? As you might imagine, my brother is one of those people I stay clear away from these days.

      • Vicki

        Well into the illegal “war on SOME drugs” it became fashionable to “drop a dime” on your enemies. I.E. Anonymous call to the DEA.

  • LiarsMustBeDefeated

    People believe appearances. And, it appears the police can not be trusted.

  • TIME

    Room 101 anyone??????????????

  • momo

    So where are all the lawyer advocates who are supposed to be defending the constitution? Why hasn’t one of these people filed a lawsuit in the California court system under the 4th amendment’s reasonable search and siezure clause? Or for that matter why hasn’t some lawyer filed a lawsuit against the so called patriot act?

    • http://none Mike

      momo, Its because with the court system we have today. The constitution is toilet paper for liberal judges. They will interpret it as they see fit. Most of the time to the detriment of the people. Mike L.

    • TIME


      Its called the “GRAY AREAS,” – as the BOR and Constitution are really very clear in their intent.

      Thus laws have been enacted for well over 100 years that have placed both of these doucments in a light where they have no vlaue.

      As our legal system now work out of these “GRAY AREA’s” and the color value of GRAY allows vast amounts of room for whats noted as ~ “Interpitations” based on individual courts political agendas.
      Yes ~ that means they are Bought off by way of special favors granted.

      In Plain words MAMO, there is “NO LAW,” unless a political gain can be made from it.

      • http://none Mike

        Time, Thoes Gray Areas are what has put most people in prison. While thoes same Gray Areas are what the political class operates in.

        Most prison cells are Gray Areas too. Mike L.

  • http://com i41

    The lad must not of been a democrat or he didn’t donate enough money to the Socialist Soros Party! Apparently all the tax cheats and drug connected clowns of the soros democrats never get arrested or jailed. Usually when processing you get to empty and take off everything, and it is cataloged. It must be a fetish for the dumbocrats to gain status in the Soros Socialist Party, the wirse the crime the higher the status. The frease ball just had the Ricco Electronic Act used on him, better go back to using a paper and pen and keep it in a undisclosed spot.

  • skipfoss

    I live in a small town in a small county I know all of the drug investigators,from DEA to local barney FiFe most I have seen grow up and there are only two out of about thirty that I would trust the others I would want them on video at all times and I would want them to let the two that I trust to count the money or drus conficated. There is one I know taht has been on the task force for about two years he has been a cop for three. Before he lived on his Dads property in a used single wide trailer now he just bought a small farm ,did a lot of remodeling to the house and barn ,drives a new Blazer(not the depts) on a salary of around 38,000.00 a year he must really have a good accountant to pay for all that he has ended up with

    • bear

      So, Skip, let’s assume his $38,000.00 a year is more than enough since he bought the farm and the new Blazer through an auction from a drug seizure. Is that possible or are we assuming we have a cop dealing drugs? WE MUST GET ALL THE FACTS BEFORE WE FLY OFF THE HANDLE. My brother is a retired Maricopa deputy sheriff with many awards and citations for everything from saving kids lives to taking out the dirtbags. I could never negatively label any one of our law enforcement officers before I knew for certain the label would fit. I know too much about what they risk for our benefit.

      • DaveH

        When it comes to the Drug Wars, they aren’t risking anything for MY benefit. I got along quite fine before the New Prohibition.

    • http://none Mike

      skip, Must be from around my area lol. I know a local good ole boy here that when he got on the force he was pretty much the same way.He now owns a home on some lake front property and has had some of the best parties for years. His brother was a notorious drunk with multiple dui’s. Who eventually killed 3 people in a car accident. He lived and still drove for about 2 years after before he finally drunk himself to death.Mike L.

  • tim

    What do you expect from commiefornia. They passed over 700 new laws last year and you can bet they will come up with another 7-800 this year. I say let them become thier own country so we can be rid of them. Thier citizens keep voting the same sorry people in so they must enjoy all of thier safety and security all of these laws bring. Guess they don’t care about freedom!!

    • http://none Mike

      Tim, You know what this current slide reminds me of. Europe around 1390 to 1450. The slide into the dark ages. Before you say I am nuts lets look at the similarities.

      1) Les Majisties became a crime once more. If a pesant class person complained against the crown or its authorities (nobels). They were subject to imprisonment or death. Also there were many confiscatory taxes imposed.

      2)Thoes in power were well fed by their farms and the taxes. While the pesent class had to make do with the leaveings of the fields. And were punished with death for poaching from nobels land. Any withholding of food or taxes was punishable with death or imprisonment.

      3) Threats of diseas. The pandemic of that age was Bubonic Plague. Many would not have died had they not been malnourshied and unclean. These conditions were enforced by the policies of the nobles(ruling class)Now we have the threat of H1N1. And the conditions being enforced by the ruling class(politicans) are much the same. How are they you might ask? Tenament houseing and food stamps. Even though these people appear robust the foods purchesed are often devoid of anything but empty calories and are vitimen and mineral deficent. Thus their immune systems are weakend. That combined with the cluttered houseing and unclean conditions that this brings about are ripe for pandemic.

      4)The education of the masses was either non existant.Or slipshod at best. This allowed the ruling class to enforce the slavery of the ruled(pesant class)With very little reguard for retaliation. Mostly ignorant people accept their lot because they know no better. Today that is being done through indoctorination in education. This in my eyes is even more incidous than ignorance. Mainly because they are being traind by the ruling class that what they are doing is right and just.

      5) A disarmed citizenry. The pesants of this time either had inferior arms or none at all. Any insurection was quickly quashed by a superior armed goverment.Take this as Pitchforks and torches vs. Swords crossbows and muskets. Also if the citizenry was found to have any of these wepons they were quickly confiscated and said citizen was jailed or killed. How close then I ask you is this to the situation we have today? All too close I fear.

      All I ask you to do is read this and think please.We are balanced on the blade of the knife now. And the new dark age is looming.THOES THAT DO NOT LEARN FROM HISTORY ARE DOOMED TO REPEAT IT.Mike L.

      Ps These are just a few of the parralells there are many many more. Please do not think this cannot happen NOW OR HERE!

      • DaveH

        Those occurances have repeated throughout the history of man. Leaders always have and always will strive for more power and perks at the expense of the citizenry.
        We had a very rare freedom in this country and have apathetically let it go.

        • http://none Mike

          Dave, The parralles are glaring though wouldent you say? I wonder why we are so cyclical in our history? Rare people step forward at points in history too Davinchie, Socreties and plato come to mind. I wonder who will step forward in our time? Who is the next Washington, Jefferson or Henrey. They have to be out there somewhere or we are truly doomed to repeat the dark ages, The fall of Rome,or The collaps of Sumaria. Mike L.

  • calan

    Truth is in this era of electronics,computers I phones and such that
    are guised to make our lives more convinient,are actually connecting to us to a system where we can be spied on and eventually controlled.
    All T.V.signals are now digital with such high tech forms of transmitting and storing information the average person or a small broadcasing station would not be able to voice their opinions or anything else if they wanted to get information to the people in some kind of let s say crisis where marshall law or something was put if effect.
    It won t be long before you can be cut off from all the convenices of life by someone in a room miles way because you may not be conforming something they want you to do.
    Smart grids are coming up that can control all information and electronic in your home,gps devices can find you..and we don t know where they are hidden,your credit and debit cards can be cut off so have no access to money or any other transactions..(sounds like the mark of the beast dose n t it)are n t most of forced to direct deposit our checks through banks?
    Let s go further….big corporations will control our food forcing us to eat the posoin they produce.
    This is all something bigger than we can imagine,even some of politiians and goverment officials don t realize it because it s a slow process being structured over time…..they make think they are voting for something that s helpful but i think it s part of a bigger plan……question is,who are these people… it really by design or coincidence ? ain t illegal yet!!!!!……(or is it?)

    • http://none Mike

      calan,See above comment. Its all by design I am afraid. But much like its predacessor. Its doomed to fail. But at the cost of millions of lives and all of what we call treasures today.We are balanced on the blade of a dagger and we will either fall to the side of awakeining or doom. Its our choice. Mike L.

  • Raggs


    I think it is said when us the people have to hide from them the government in order for us to conduct our daily activities…

    The above statement should show how tyranny controls us.

    We can sit here until pigs fly and argue this and every other intrusion the government is making into our lives, but it will not do any good until we stop them dead in their tracks…

    This bullcrap of “spying” and that is what it is… is based on a fear… The fear has been set in place by the government to control us.. It goes something like this… Create a crisis to gain control.

  • Bill

    Not by any means a legal expert here,but if someone under arrest chooses the right to remain silent doesn’t that prevent the police from further interrogation of the suspect? If so, the choice to remain silent would also prevent further search and seizure of suspect’s property, because in my opinion the police are seeking alternative measures to procure evidence the suspect has refused access to. Same thing as the police needing a search warrant to examine your home for evidence.

  • calan

    Soory,Bill depending on who you are,remaining silent may get you beaten or tassed for being a smart #ss
    It s your word against theirs and theirs usually prevails.
    Most of the times the rights are n t even read to you.
    I m not downing all police a great many are good but too many try play judge and jury on the spot instead of just arresting you and bringing you in to have a judge and jury of your peers deceide.

  • Raggs

    I went to Dallas TX in the early 80′s on a greyhound bus.
    When I arrived I went outside to find my ride and what I seen shocked me.

    A man was handcuffed behind his back and lying on the sidewalk and two police officers with billyclubs were hitting him in the head and in the back. The officers were taking turns hitting the man. Everytime they hit him I could hear a loud thug.


  • Don Cordell

    Lets see, the cops are hired by the government, the Judge is hired by the government, with the new government system, the Jury will be hired and paid for by the government. Makes the police system so much easier. Will America elect an honest 83 year old Presdential Candidate to Return our nation that claims Liberty and Justice for all? Our nation has been stolen from us, and as UN vehicles are distributed all over our nation, for use when the traitors we elected turn our nation over to the United Nations with out any votes from the citizens. After all we are too dumb to know what is going on. I’ve talked to so many citizens who adamantly insist this can’t happen in America. It’s sad that we can’t get people to understand, our nation has already surrendered, it’s only a matter of time.
    I’ve been studing America since 1936, and I’ve been trying to inform people all these years that the Communist are running our nation, pretending all is OK up to the last minute.
    We are broke, there is no way we can ever pay back $14 Trillion debt that our leaders have spent. This has been the plan since 1870 when the rich of Europe came to America to control all our industry. They have bled us dry, and YOU think America is going to Recover?
    If a Democrat or Republican is elected as President in 2012, might as well turn off the lights and leave town. It’s over. Are you a Patriot willing to campaign for America’s future, or a Coward that will just surrender?

  • DaveH

    These rabid dogs just don’t quit:

  • Raggs

    The larger problem..

    This nation has ran away from its morals based upon a political correctness that benefits the masters of their nameless god / or the lack of in most cases. Naturally this opens the door for abuse of anything that is bound by a belief in the only true God.

    obama hates God, the world as it is will fall.
    Although at this time there is not much we can do about obama unless we pull him away from power by his ears… I dont understand how much proof there needs to be before people see things for what they truly are.
    Ten million more dead birds?.. 50 million more dead fish?.. spoiled land?.. a bankrupt country?.. how far does this need to go before you realize that you need help?

  • Al Sieber

    Good link Dave, I just heard that they censored Mark Twains “Huckleberry Finn” because of one word. I have the complete works of Mark Twain, copyright 1935 and I give my son 2 volumes every year. I probably should start hiding these and other books I have in one of the abandoned mines on my property before they start confiscation and book burning, right out of 1933 Nazi Germany.

  • Jill

    Don’t do things that will cause you to be arrested and no one will look into your electronic possessions. Or don’t take the phone with you or your lap top when you go to rob a bank.

    • Raggs

      DID YOU MISS something?

      • DaveH

        Well, it obviously wasn’t public school.

  • http://com i41

    Everyone had better watch their state legislatures on their under the radar gun control plans. I have a brother that lives in SD and is amember of the SD Gunowner Association. The last few democrat canidates for any state offices have embraced outlawing CC permits to walk or be on city property, and have the signs put up it is illegal to carry a gun on your person in any city owned property. I will not buy from Pizza. after a Pizza delivery person was attacked and had his leg broken, when the 2 thugs just decided to beat him, even though he offered the keys to his vehicle and what ever little change he had, they just wanted him dead as it came out in their trials. When he managed to crawl in an open dor to get hs pistol the thugs ran off after he fired a round, Police caught arrested the 2 thugs, but Pizza Hut fired him for protecting himself with a firearm.. If you know any other businesses that are that stupid let us all know. But the main concern is the state legislatures doing the bidding of the socialist gun gun ownership idoits. By the way all of the canidates who have slide these problems under the radar are democrats and it goesall the way to the cities governering boards for approving this crap.

  • Thor

    The 2004 Census of State and Local Law Enforcement Agencies (CSLLEA) data collection form was mailed to more than 19,000 agencies potentially operating nationwide.

    Number of LE officers increased 57,400 (or 5.6%) in 2004.
    WASHINGTON—There were about 1.1 million full-time state and local law enforcement employees in the U.S., including about 732,000 sworn personnel as of September 30, 2004, the Justice Department’s Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) announced today. Local police departments were the largest employers, with 447,000 officers; followed by sheriffs’ offices, with 175,000; state law enforcement agencies, with 58,000 and other types of agencies, with 52,000.


    For a century, statistics have indicated that all major crimes are committed by about 2% of the population. In 2004, that was approximately (300 million X .02=6 million) six million people.

    Of the 732,000 sworn personnel (the only folks with the authority to arrest), the 58,000 of the state agencies police commerce, the police and traffic—not the 2 percent who commit major crimes. That leaves 674,000. Of the remaining agencies, 25% are management, leaving 505,500. Of these, 10% are traffic enforcement only, leaving 454,950 to catch major criminals. Of these, 6% are process servers, court bailiffs, school resource officers and other ‘service’ personnel, leaving 427,653 to track six million criminals and gather evidence of their 400 million crimes and apprehend and prosecute them for it.

    That means that each officer has to prepare and prosecute (400,000,000/427,653=935) 935 cases annually or 2.56 cases per day and work on all new cases and unsolved cases at the same time. All of these cases that are more complex (that go unsolved more than 72 hours) are ultimately handled by the detectives of these agencies—an even smaller percentage of sworn personnel. It is not uncommon then for a detective of a median population city to have more than 100 cases pending on his/her desk at any given time and larger cities even more.

    In every practical sense then it is time to answer the question, do we want law enforcement or not? If we do then we have to assume (without credible direct evidence to the contrary) that LE officers are truthful about what they observe and give them the tools they need to do the job.

    It has long been Constitutional law that an arrest on the observation of Law Enforcement of a crime constitutes prima fascia evidence of that crime, that everything within plain sight is warrantless evidence and the nature of the crime observed establishes probable cause for a warrant for unseen evidence in house and vehicle.

    As for spying on law abiding citizens—the cops don’t have the wherewithal to catch those they know are committing crimes. Why would they bother violating the rights of those who aren’t? Every time a cop looks at you, he or she is looking for evidence of a crime; if there is none you won’t get arrested.

    No rights are violated here because no rights are involved. Most of what is seen here is libertarian balderdash that bespeaks Constitutional legal ignorance.

    I have been waiting fifty years for those who do not by nature trust local law enforcement to present a practical alternative. I have not seen a single proposal.


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