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More Preposterous Lies From The Center Of All Preposterousness

June 18, 2012 by  

More Preposterous Lies From The Center Of All Preposterousness
SPECIAL
The Southern Poverty Law Center takes up most of a city block in the heart of Alabama’s capital, Montgomery.

The Southern Preposterous Lie Center — laughably known in some locations as the misnamed Southern Poverty Law Center — has issued its summer list of “activists” heading up the “radical right.” Tenth Amendment Center executive director and Personal Liberty Digest contributor Michael Boldin is one of the 30 people listed.

Boldin’s sin, according to the preposterously pro-Marxist, anti-American Preposterous Lie Center, is that the TAC “is on the far right, opposing a whole array of federal laws and regulations. It has gained wide support among hard-line libertarians…” He “evidently runs the organization from his home,” the SPLC exclaims, as opposed, I guess, to a palatial estate like the one the SPLC occupies in the heart of Alabama’s capital, Montgomery, that includes six stories, cost $24 million to build — not counting a $5.5 million addition — and takes up most of a city block.

Boldin has also, the SPLC notes, “crisscrossed the country, taking the TAC’s nullification message to supporters known as ‘Tenthers.’ Its ‘Nullify Now!’ conferences have been held in cities… (as opposed to caves, where the SPLC thinks he and his fellow Neanderthals should hide?) These conferences are often headlined by prominent figures in the antigovernment ‘Patriot’ movement, which has been growing by leaps and bounds in the last three years. The Austin (Texas) gathering, for instance featured Art Thompson of the John Birch Society… and Stewart Rhodes, head of the conspiracy-minded Oath Keepers, a group that encourages police officers and soldiers to disobey ‘unconstitutional’ orders… The TAC’s partner in this endeavor is the Foundation for a Free Society, which espouses the libertarian free-market theories of Murray Rothbard and the Austrian School of Economics.”

Oh, my! What subversives Boldin rubs shoulders with. How can anyone suggest police and soldiers disobey unConstitutional orders, support organizations that espouse free-market theories or oppose some Federal laws and regulations?

That’s an interesting view coming from an organization that claims it “is a nonprofit civil rights organization dedicated to fighting hate and bigotry, and to seeking justice for the most vulnerable members of society.” I suppose the SPLC believes it’s now time to give Bull Connor, Birmingham police officers and Alabama State Troopers a pass on the dogs and fire hoses. After all, they were only following orders. Martin Luther King Jr. and his “uppity” followers should have just accepted that discrimination was a fact of life. And can you say Lt. William Calley Jr.?

But such is the irrationality of the SPLC, an organization with “poverty” in its name but whose two founders draw salaries exceeding $300,000 annually; that has five more staffers drawing six figures; that took in $76.6 million in fiscal year 2011; and that was sitting on $228.7 million in assets, according to its tax return. And, yes, the organization that claims it “was founded to ensure that the promises of the civil rights movement became a reality for all” has only whites in its top eight wage earners and only one minority on its senior staff.

If that’s not enough, the SPLC’s Teaching Tolerance program, reputed to promote diversity, has been headed by a white person for 20 of its 21 years.

The SPLC is about — according to its website’s masthead — “fighting hate, teaching tolerance and seeking justice.” One example of SPLC’s fight against hate and its love of tolerance can be found in a recent post on its website (since scrubbed) entitled “An Open Letter to the Good People of Iowa: Are You Crazy?” written by SPLC staffer Mark Potok.

What did Iowans do to set off Potok? Here are his words:

I used to think you were a pretty straight-ahead place, what with all that flat land and healthy vegetables and honest living. I mean, Iowans rejected slavery 20 years before the Civil War and they approved interracial marriage a century before the Supreme Court. Homosexuality was decriminalized almost 30 years before the 2003 Lawrence vs. Texas decision did so nationwide. Today, control of the state’s legislature is split between Democrats and Republicans and, a few characters aside, it is not particularly known for political extremism. Like the corn it produces in such copious amounts, Iowa generally seemed a healthy and sensible place.

That idea of the state ended for me this morning, when I read the proposed platform released on Monday by the Platform Committee of the Republican Party of Iowa. Are you people totally insane?

The platform, as first pointed out by ThinkProgress, is absolutely thick with ideas from the extreme right, lunatic conspiracy theories, and barely concealed hatred for President Obama and anything that smacks of multiculturalism. It sneers at science, is down on poor people, and despises, really despises, the United Nations.

Now you might ask what insanity the platform proposed. Here is the text. Among the issues that Potok thought insane were (along with his commentary):

  • Require candidates for president to prove that they are “natural born citizens,” beginning with the 2012 election. After all, non-citizens serving as president have been a longstanding problem in American politics.
  • Reject the “claims” of global warming, which are “based on fraudulent, inaccurate information” and pushed by people using “extremist scare tactics.” The Iowa GOP “recognizes” that policies and laws designed to combat global warming are really “a plan to take our freedoms and liberties away.”
  • Oppose “the diabolical collusion of the United Nations” in promoting its Agenda 21, a non-binding global sustainability plan signed by President George H.W. Bush and the leaders of 177 other nations in 1992. Like the Republican National Committee, the Iowa GOP apparently believes Agenda 21 is part of an effort to impose global political control on the U.S.
  • Eliminate the Federal Reserve Act and implement a “sound commodity-backed currency” with a gold or silver standard.
  • Fight the North American Union, “which would do away with our borders and sovereignty, and … [battle] the Amero, which would do away with our currency.” Although there actually are no secret plans to merge Mexico, the United States and Canada into a single entity — and replace our dollars with “Ameros” — that hasn’t stopped the conspiracy theorists.
  • In the same vein, “oppose so-called ‘World Government.’”
  • Entirely eliminate the departments of Agriculture, Education, Homeland Security, Housing and Urban Development, Health and Human Services, Energy, Interior, Labor and Commerce, along with the Transportation Safety Administration, the Food and Drug Administration, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, the Environmental Protection Agency, the National Endowment for the Arts, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
  • Likewise, abolish the Internal Revenue Service and repeal the 16th Amendment, which legalized the federal income tax.
  • Require judges to instruct jurors that in addition to judging cases, they may pass on the law at issue. Commonly known as “jury nullification,” this is a highly controversial notion that is embraced by the radical right.
  • Pass a “stand your ground” law, like the one that many believe led to the death of Trayvon Martin in Sanford, Fla. By a large margin, most prosecutors and police oppose such laws, which make prosecuting many killings difficult.
  • Allow parents to refuse to have their children immunized.
  • Reject the teaching of multiculturalism.
  • Only teach evolution as a theory, along with creationism.
  • Repeal compulsory school attendance laws.
  • Eliminate the federal Occupational Safety and Health Administration, which oversees job safety.
  • Repeal smoking bans because, as the platform statement asserts, “We believe this to be an issue of liberty.” Air quality in all businesses should be left up to owners’ “freedom to choose.”
  • Repeal all hate crime laws.
  • Oppose the imposition Shariah, or Islamic religious law, in the United States, along with any other foreign or “United Nations Law.”
  • Build a fence along the entire U.S. border with Mexico.
  • Oppose abortion and reject the Supreme Court’s decision authorizing it.
  • Build a fence along the entire U.S. border with Mexico.
  • End minimum wage laws.
  • Oppose abortion and reject the Supreme Court’s decision authorizing it. Encourage adoption and aid to unwed mothers — but only if every dollar of support comes from the private sector.
  • End subsidies to agriculture.

In other words, advocating for personal freedom, a return to the Constitution and opposition to global governance is insanity.

In 1994, the Montgomery Advertiser wrote a series entitled “Charity of riches” that exposed the graft and corruption of the so-called “civil rights charity.” Ken Silverstein of Harper’s Magazine wrote in 2010 that the SPLC’s chief mission was to separate wealthy liberals from their money. If only that were the case.

Unfortunately, the mainstream media regularly go to the SPLC’s listing of “right wing hate groups” for story ideas and use the organization as a source for information on racism and intolerance. These serve to advance the false meme that all liberty lovers are terrorists and racists who are plotting to march on Washington with guns blazing.

Progressives, socialists, Marxists and other totalitarians can’t abide dissent because their ideas, when exposed and explained, are rejected by most Americans. So people like Brett Kimberlin and groups like the SPLC are used by them in an attempt to shut down opposing voices — Kimberlin and his ilk through intimidation and violence; the SPLC by spreading lies and misinformation in its attempts to brand freedom lovers as haters, racists and bigots.

Calling someone a racist simply for disagreeing on policy is a typical tactic of fascists on both sides of the false political spectrum (it is often done in commentary on this site, and no doubt will appear below), and it has become increasingly popular in this age of the “post-racial President.” The SPLC uses its preposterous lies, straw man arguments and logical fallacies to promote a leftist, anti-American, totalitarian agenda.

But back to Boldin. He and his Tenth Amendment Center are doing good work in exposing the unConstitutional laws being pushed upon us by government and educating Americans about the Constitution and legitimate — according to the likes of James Madison and Thomas Jefferson — ways of resisting and rejecting government overreach.

I hope he wears his listing as a badge of honor. And while I didn’t make the cut, I’m on the radar. Two years ago, the SPLC fabricated from whole cloth a story about a racist-themed picnic and poetry contest I was supposedly hosting for my employees. That story, posted under Hatewatch, had as much legitimacy as the SPLC’s “charity work,” its Hatewatch blog and the various (un)intelligence reports it puts out daily to push its agenda.

Bob Livingston

is an ultra-conservative American and author of The Bob Livingston Letter™, founded in 1969. Bob has devoted much of his life to research and the quest for truth on a variety of subjects. Bob specializes in health issues such as nutritional supplements and alternatives to drugs, as well as issues of privacy (both personal and financial), asset protection and the preservation of freedom.

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  • http://gravatar.com/revnowwhilewecan revnowwhilewecan

    (sigh) More paid gov’t shills trying to keep up the disinfo and strait up lie tactics to keep the suppression of liberty and truth from gaining ground. I am really happy and confident tho because I know the country and world are waking up and this s#&t won’t last. They know it and we know it. The end is truly coming for them.

    • eddie47d

      PLD exposes some of the wacko tendencies of the left and SPLC exposes the wacko beliefs of those on the right. Both are important in digging for the truth and neither is absolute gospel. SPLC also lists black hate groups,Muslim hate groups and a variety of others so you both serve a purpose in keeping citizens informed.

      • JeffH

        Sure eddie, you know they’re on the up-n-up…’cause they say so!
        Now, If only pigs could fly!

    • http://gravatar.com/dawgbisquit1 Tom W.

      LOL!!! Bob I can tell you’re heartbroken that you didn’t make the cut! LOL!!! Maybe next year! keep up the GOOD work Bob, we may have our differences, but not today! SIC ‘EM!!!

      • http://gravatar.com/dawgbisquit1 Tom W.

        Yeah they’re a little on the hypocritical side, I must say!!! Funny that this article should be posted six days following the 50th anniversary of the assassination of civil rights activist Medgar Evers in Mississippi back in those days! Let’s see how many posters down below will celebrate that atrosity as a righeous kill!!!

  • GALT

    ” To conquer, first DIVIDE!”

    Who benefits? Follow the money?

    An interesting way to begin the week, Mr. Livingston, and given the attention span of
    “the people” one must truly marvel at the ease with which in a country where nothing is being done, the rhetoric of all the concerned guarantee’s that nothing will be done.

    Your list is fascinating…….the Iowa platform list……red meat for starving dogs, and sure to invoke “passionately POINTLESS” response……….from the “volunteer’s” who claim that everything is “unconstitutional”, when in “admiralty and maritime”, everything is, because it is the Government which determines ultimately what the constitution means. ( under the careful guidance of the corporations who have bought and paid for them to do what is required to maintain this blissful state of free market unregulated capitalism. )

    The dichotomy must present a problem, as the beneficiaries of the health care bill, the HEALTH INSURANCE COMPANIES, announced last week, that despite whatever the Supreme Court decided, they would continued to provide the services mandated by the bill. So now we have the Supreme Court, rendering a decision on a mandate, where none exists, an INSURANCE INDUSTRY, which says it will disregard it, if the result is negative,
    the “conservative’s claiming the mandate ( which is not there ) is “unconstitutional”,, and the, a presidential candidate who claims it as his mission to repeal it. ( of course, if this bill
    is actually unconstitutional, then Social Security would be also, of course there is
    26 CFR 31.3402 (p) which is the “regulation” that governs the implimentation of the
    “statute” 26 USC 3402 titled “Voluntary Withholding Agreements”, but why inform anyone of that……or that the jurisdictions of (common ) law and equity seemed to have vanished,
    which is where the “constitution” is hiding……….as is your “sound money”?

    With the shortest distance between two points being a straight line, it is some what absurd
    to hear people’s patriotic expressions of concern, with all kinds of slogans and banners, all pointing to the “symptons” and claiming to be the “treatment”, when there is a CURE, immediately available for EVERYONE…….by simply identifying the DISEASE?

    Of course, actually curing the disease would be more interesting in that one would be forced to consider the proposition of what role, if any, the Government actually has….
    and THAT would be a truly frightening circumstance, would it not?

    • MAP

      Yet more irrational nonsense from the delusional, whining, totalitarian left. Be it known that the left – in its entirety – IS the disease. And that disease is spread via loud mouthed, pseudo intellectuals, spouting irrational nonsense. Even here at a conservative site they use this forum to contaminate and infect others almost as ignorant and foolish as themselves with their sick and twisted ideologies. The left has nothing to show or promise but death and oppression. It is like a heroin addict: the high is great – till it kills you. And these loathsome pests, of which this site has a proliferation, are the equivalent of heroin pushers. They are, of course, the mere minions of their great and powerful leader, Lucifer himself. Only a fool listens to their siren songs of death and oppression.

      • GALT

        Still paying those voluntary taxes and complaining that they are unconstitutional? Waiting for “the call” ?

      • Karolyn

        Conservatives are the only ones I see spreading “songs” of death and depression.

      • GALT

        Oh, and your labels don’t quite work here……not that I would expect you to notice…..

      • Deerinwater

        “Be it known that the left – in its entirety – IS the disease. And that disease is spread via loud mouthed, pseudo intellectuals, spouting irrational nonsense. ”

        Now that’s the way to narrow the issues down and really focus on the merits of the argument. Call them unflattering names and assign them labels.

        I’ll do you one better, anything that comes out of Alabama or Iowa is suspect of being poorly conceived.

        From my prospective, it’s more of a kracker on kracker battle of the numb skulls.

        Repeal Hate Crimes? ~ because they are good?

        Reject Global warming? ~ because it’s not warming?

        Repeal smoking bans because, as the platform statement asserts, “We believe this to be an issue of liberty.” Air quality in all businesses should be left up to owners’ “freedom to choose.” ~ I like that one.

        Allow parents to refuse to have their children immunized.??? ~ As long as they can’t come it contact with other children, I see no problem there.

        Eliminate the federal Occupational Safety and Health Administration, which oversees job safety. ? ~So how do you think Insurance Companies might view this as they weigh their liabilities to cover you and you activities as a vendor? How might your clients feel about this lacking of accepted standards and they too are required to insure in order to conduct their business affairs.

        End minimum wage laws.? ~ How about we not and say that we did? Or better yet, allow 14 yr olds to work on lower scale?

        Repeal compulsory school attendance laws.? ~ Like Americans are not stupid enough to vote wised already, we can make them even more stupid. The elites would love this one.

        Only teach evolution as a theory, along with creationism.? ~ That a good one, ~ Use government funds to spread God matters to the Godless and explain how virgins can actually get pregnant.

      • dan brown

        Mr Mapp, is right on target! Thank God, this is one person that will stand & be counted. God has given this person a vision of tomorrow. Mr. Mapp, I tip my hat to you sir.
        “God bless America,” Until we meet again, may the good Lord take a liking to you.”

      • GALT

        Mr MAP, has simply demonstrated that he can not read, so whatever target you imagine he has hit, you seem to share his current “disability”……not to worry, “We shall leave no childe behind.” and when children can become president and be re-elected……while leaving total destruction in their wake, why concern yourself with things like TRUTH….

      • Deerinwater

        “dan brown says:
        June 18, 2012 at 8:12 am
        Mr Mapp, is right on target!”

        Map didn’t say anything Sir. ~ He railed and ranted against all opposition and that pretty much sums up Map’s posting.

        So you feel inclined to give him an A Men? ~ Why don’t you do your own rant and railing?

        I read it three times to make sure!

      • nc

        Map, those who awoke this morning in the USA, you(?) included , owe a debt of gratitude to those who made this country unlike any other in the world! Many people have served to produce this situation that you would label progressive leftist! They are called Presidents!!!!!What great “true conservatives” can you name who are a part of this list of leaders to our greatness?
        You complain that liberals come to this site to contaminate your ideas! We come to shed light !!!! Adhereing to the Constitution, we do not attempt to force our ideas on you! We just ask that you consider them! Mr Livingson won’t mind because he believes in the same Constitutional guarentees!
        How do you know your position is the correct one unless you know exactly what the other positions are? Do you read about them and discuss them or just let someone else tell you what your SHOULD believe? We are here to read and discuss ALL of the possible solutions to our problems!

      • TIME

        Dear Map,

        No, gualt is dead on in all most everything he has posted above.

        #1, We don’t have a POTUS what we have is a CEO of a Corporation, be it a rather poorly run one to anyone who has ever run a Corporation, But – still it is what it is, (the US Inc.) And your not party to it!

        #2, As far a a Government again we don’t have one, we have a “De Facto” format that is nothing more than a “Criminal type Corporation”

        #3, The De Facto Corporation does not work for YOU, and never in your life has it. You would have to be well over 200 years old to have had any form of whats written in the “Original Constitution” as a form of Government.
        ** (Yet – Some how I don’t think your over 200 years old.} _-
        JFTR you are not party to the Bill of RIGHTS either.
        You have Privileges, again JFTR – {Rights are for FREE PEOPLE}

        So what one are you again?

        Peace and Love

      • JUKEBOX

        I have been pointing out for years the duplicity of the SPLC, after a trip to the Governor’s office, where I had to park in front of the SPLC offices. I would have expected them to be operating out of some low rent store front in Downtown Montgomery, instead of the opulent building that makes our State offices look like ghetto offices. I have seen Potok on TV, and he looks really scary, looking like he should be leading some radical protest.

      • Karolyn

        Deer – One thing I have to comment on is if the children are immunized that the non-immunized children come into contact with, why would they have anything to worry about?

      • Mike in PA

        How can you know your enemy if you dont listen to what they are saying?

      • Stuart Shepherd

        Deerinwater- YOU might not have come across as such a pretentious, arrogant, superioristically condescending anal orifice in your criticism of MAP if you hadn’t done exactly what you accused him or her of doing and “focus on the merits of the argument”(s) without the “unflattering” condescension that liberals ALWAYS use (as if to say “of course I’m right, it’s “PC”! Isn’t that in like the Bible or the Constitution or the encyclopedia or something? I really shouldn’t have to discuss it! Anyway, I would NEVER stoop so low as to try to explain to some poor gullible slob why it’s not a child and I should be able to kill it if I want to, and have a God-given right to do so” or some such horse manure!!!! You all literally make me sick!

      • Average Joe

        Deerinwater,

        “Allow parents to refuse to have their children immunized.??? ~ As long as they can’t come it contact with other children, I see no problem there. ”

        Hmmm, what exactly do the “immunized” children have to fear from comming into contact with “non-immunized” children?…isn’t that what the immunization is supposed to do….. prevent contracting the disease in the first place? So, if they are immunized…having non-immunized children in their classrooms…shouldn’t be a problem for anyone.

        “Repeal compulsory school attendance laws.? ~ Like Americans are not stupid enough to vote wised already, we can make them even more stupid. The elites would love this one. ”

        As if the the public school system is doing such a great job of educating our children now?
        (the Propaganda Division of the Public Babysitting Society)
        Home schooling is the answer…stop allowing others to shape your children’s minds and become parents again…shaping your child’s future by your own perseverence.

        “End minimum wage laws.? ~ How about we not and say that we did? Or better yet, allow 14 yr olds to work on lower scale? ”

        I doesn’t matter how much money you make if the prices of goods go up….. right along with the “minimum wage”. What matters is the “value” of your currency…it doesn’t matter if you have a million dollars in your pocket…if it won’t even buy a loaf of bread….
        For example, I sell a dozen eggs for .10 cents….(remarkably low price, huh?)…the catch is…you can only pay me with dimes made before 1964…why?…because they are 90% silver. You may think that I am silly, but you would be suprised at how many eggs I sell for a dime a dozen. I am giving something of value (eggs) in exchange for something of value (silver dimes).

      • steve

        you are out of your mind. The left is responsible for doing nothing while the right is responsible for total repression based on insane religious beliefs from the old testament. the Bush administration has murdered and killed so his rich buddies could get richer. There is no other explanation for the unprovoked war on Iraq. Never before has the United States initiated a WAR on other nation. You seem to forget that we are supposed to be the good guys. Why do you want us to be evil?.

      • http://gravatar.com/dawgbisquit1 Tom W.

        Galt, you and a half dozen other posters in this thread are the only “passionately POINTLESS” ones here! The MAIN thing us patriots have going for us though is y’all’s yellow belliedness! LOL!!! Y’all can sure talk the talk though, I MUST say! Come on MAP, db (I take it you’re not the author! LOL!!!), JB, Stu, and AJ, (Mike in PA, I haven’t figured you out yet!) let’s get out of this thread, this would be a good place for a dumb bomb! LOL!!!

      • Kate8

        steve – Those “insane” religious principles from the OT are the foundations for our freedom. They are not about religion, but about “unalienable rights” which come from God and not government, and which government cannot take away.

        If you think the direction we are headed is so much better… well, maybe you don’t agree with freedom. Or maybe you’ve just been indoctrinated by the commies. Or maybe you are just delusional.

      • Average Joe

        Tom W. ,
        While it is nice that you have an opinion…that and $5 will get you a cup of coffee in some places…this isn’t one of those places. You may want to consider that we feel the same way concerning your IQ as well and critical thinking skills.
        Bob has written about folks like you on numerous occassions.

        “You are obviously trapped in the paradigm of conventional wisdom.”

        http://personalliberty.com/2011/12/28/confusion/
        http://personalliberty.com/2011/10/10/cognitive-dissonance/
        http://personalliberty.com/2012/01/09/loving-our-enemies/
        http://personalliberty.com/2012/05/14/the-lies-youre-told/
        http://personalliberty.com/2012/03/12/mr-cardinals-futility/
        http://personalliberty.com/2012/02/27/on-iran-government-and-doublethink/

        Question…. everything.
        Best Wishes,
        AJ

      • http://gravatar.com/dawgbisquit1 Tom W.

        BAJB, the trouble with you and others like yourself (Bob, I DO NOT include you on this list.) is that your spiritual IQ’s all start out with a decimal point! You’ve become so FIXATED on charts and graphs and book knowledge, that you’ve forgotten from where those unalienable rights that Kate8 refers to comes from! Why do you think that Jesus berated the Gnostics (From whence we get our English word knowledge.) so bad in 2 Peter 2:15, 19; Jude 1:4; Rev. 2:6, 15&16, and 19:15?!! They were more concerned with their knowledge and self-indulgence that they TOTALLY ignored those without. After all were not those without that way because they were cursed by God?! Jesus did not come to save the self-righteous, he came to save sinnners who repent and CALL upon His Name!!!

        “The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.” – Proverbs 16:4 (KJV)

        “For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.” – Romans 1:20-23 (KJV)

        So there you go Below Average Joe Blow, Jesus said that you’ll have your reward, doesn’t that scare you in the least?!!

        “Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.” – Mark 9:48 (KJV)

      • Average Joe

        Tom W.

        I am quite sure considering the way you talk to others and treat others, that God doesn’t appreciate you using his name or words. Please learn to be a Christian before trying to preach like one…..your words, actions and Christianity are diametrically opposed. While it is wonderful that you know the Bible, It would be much nicer…if you actually practiced being a Christian. Your Attitutde towards others seems to be anything but Christian.

        Best wishes,
        AJ

        • http://boblivingstonpl.wordpress.com Bob Livingston

          Dear Average Joe,

          I would have to agree with you.

          Best wishes,
          Bob

      • JeffH

        Average Joe, :) …Tom just doesn’t understand hypocricy, that it is all encompassing and carries no bias.

    • dg

      I assume you have a point in there somewhere but damned if it is apparent. Just senseless ramblings.

      • GALT

        Really? You missed it? Just for you…..Where are the ( common ) law and equity courts?
        Two of the four legal jurisdictions authorized by the constitution are missing and have been since 1939 on the federal level and 1959 on the state, and yet all you constitutional scholars and your heroes have failed to notice?

      • Mike in MI

        Oh My Gosh, Galt -
        Thank you for that tacit admission of guilt, Sounds like you’re in accord with others who have in the past done things to strip us of our rights, freedoms and access to ways which might address and secure just citizenry their justice.
        Who was that compadre of yours who had lied his way int orifice in 1939?
        UH-H-h-h let’s see you think it was Thos. Jefferson, right?
        Did yo enjoy your Satanic-logic Flakes for breakfast this morning?

        nc. – come to “spread light”
        II Corinthians 11:13-15 “For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into and angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.”
        All the ideas you buzzards espouse can be found in the Bible under the headings of “foolishness”, products of those who have been given over to “a reprobate mind” and things God says are lacking wisdom or just generally “abominable” ideas.
        When people make such madness into laws He would have to become a liar to participate in it or with those who promote it – so He won’t.
        Rest assured, anything He won’t participate in or honor with His response is going to degenerate, deteriorate and digest itself in its own rottenness.

      • Michael J.

        Galt,
        My flag does not have a gold fringed border and I will not settle for less than the constraints against government tyranny set forth in the original Constitution. Just because things are at the moment slanted in the favor of Illumicorp, the elites face the equal difficulty of putting the awakening genie back in the bottle.

        The evil that has transpired from 1861 with the installment of executive order #1, through the 1910 Rothschild wet-dream come true creation of the Federal Reserve, by the hand of The Jekyl Island hucksters will not stand.

        And yes I do pay taxes to feed the fed monster. Not out of ignorance, but to keep the wolves from the door while solutions are configured.

        What are your solutions for turning back the clock? Or are you benefitting from things the way they are?

      • GALT

        you want the Constitution BACK…Mike….then take it…….you voluntarily gave it up, and only you can get it back……….Ron Paul can’t give it back, nor can Bob, nor can anyone who writes on here……..under “admiralty and maritime”, you are required to “reserve your constitutional rights” under UCC 1-207, which gives you access to “common law” under
        UCC 1-103………that’s it……that simple……except for this PART…….YOU HAVE TO DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I know, it’s easier to sit and wait for “the call”……..but you really have nothing to complain about…….once you do. you can use this…….

        Promissary Note
        I, ( state your name ), promise to pay to__________________________________
        ________________________________dollars, in the “lawful money of account” of the United States in accordance with 31 USC 371, and Article One, section 10 of the Constitution of the United States which states in pertinent part that; “no state may coin money, nor make any THING a payment of debt, except gold and silver coin.”
        As a natural born citizen of the united States, from the town of ……….., in the State of ………… and currently residing in the State of ………., I hereby declare that I shall not voluntarilly violate the “Supreme Law of the land” and will consider any attempt to compell me to do so, a “Deprivation of Rights under Color of Law” 18 USC 242, and should this action involve more than one individual, an act of “Conspiracy”, under 18 USC 241.
        Should either of these events occur, I shall seek both criminal and civil relief within all relevant jurisdictions.
        Submitted with all DUE respect:
        ( John Doe ), “without prejudice”, UCC 1 -207, UCC 1-203 104 NRS 1207

        Think of the money you can save on “powder”?

      • Mike in MI

        Galt, Galt, Galt – Settle, settle, chill

        Hit a nerve…did I?

      • Mike in MI

        Besides, Galt -
        It seems to me you’ve missed the point that I adhere to the Higher Law and under Its guidance submit to temporal order – and I have no doubt where the one ends and the other supercedes.

      • GALT

        good for you……..now all you have to do to demonstrate that you actually believe that, is to let god be my judge………I am willingly to suffer for all eternity…….you can have fun for all eternity…….the temporal stuff is short…..you can gloat later?

      • GALT

        Oh and Mike, when and if you end up in a courtroom, the flag’ s hanging there will have a fringed border….the state one, may not be yellow…….and when they ask you how you plead…….you will again volunteer, and they will find you guilty!

        The subject of god and truth, may or may not come up…….but prayer will not help you…..a little applied knowledge on the other hand has been known to work miracles…..

        but do what you want, I’m not paying any fee’s, fines, duties, imposts or taxes……and haven’t for a good thirty plus years…….

      • Average Joe

        Galt is absolutely correct concerning our present court system, whether you choose to aknowlege the facts or not.
        http://www.freedom-school.com/history/usa.html#roman

        Acouple of good places to start a “real education” can be found here:
        http://www.freedom-school.com/history/usa.html

        and here:
        http://teamlaw.org/

        I highly recommend both sites but if you go to Team Law, I recomend that you start with ” Historical Outline” as your starting point.

        Thnx, AJ

      • http://gravatar.com/dawgbisquit1 Tom W.

        Mike in MI, RIGHT ON BRO! GALT, when that day comes, I pray that you’ll be one of the ones with enough intestinal fortitude to get in the way! I’d be nervous! The masses are starting to AWAKEN!!! Of course y’all always have Karlolyn, she’d scare off Godzilla! LOL!!! WHEWWW!

      • GALT

        Tommy me boy……I would never think of getting in the way…….I’ve already won my battle,
        when you finally figure out what your battle is……win or lose the results are just fertilizer.
        Have at it……

    • Rocky Night

      Galt, Karlyn, and Robert. How much do you get paid to comment? I am wondering if you are all the same person with different accounts maybe?If these articles state that the sky is blue you would write comment after comment on how the sky is truly green.

      • GALT

        ROCKY ROCKY ROCKY….we are all flashy…..ketchup, son. Go home, wait for THE CALL!

        Another volunteer…..speaks out……..” is it possible to be a constitutional scholar and a functional illiterate?”

      • Mike in MI

        Galt – “flashy”…R-R-r-ri-i-i-ght,
        Like glitter on a pile of horse manure.

      • Karolyn

        Rocky – Been there; heard that. I have been a regular reader/contributor to this site for two years now and attribute much of what I have learned to it and have changed my mind about some issues. I may not agree with everything, but I choose to learn from others. Contrary to how some think, I believe that it is best to learn from both sides of any issue, and then come to a conclusion, rather than just listen to one side and take it as gospel.

      • GALT

        Karolyn, I don’t think Mike can “read”……..which probably makes the whole “decision” process thing……really, really, easy…..

      • Mike in MI

        That’s alright, Galt -
        I could read enough of yours to know you are not on talking terms with God – except to blaspheme and curse Him…like a hamster squalling at the big guy who feeds, waters and cleans up after it.
        BTW, I hope you enjoy your vacation under Mr. Antichrist when he comes.
        Of course, you could change and believe God raised Jesus Christ from the dead and declare you want him for your lord. Then you won’t have to feel this way anymore.
        God Bless, sir.

      • GALT

        me and god are tight buddy………

      • http://gravatar.com/dawgbisquit1 Tom W.

        Probably what they’re worth RN, NOT MUCH! LOL!!!

      • http://gravatar.com/dawgbisquit1 Tom W.

        GALT;

        “But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.” – II Cor. 4:3&4 (KJV)

        That be the god that you’re tight with my friend!!!

    • Nancy in Nebraska

      GALT, I’d like to read more about this “admiralty and maritime law” that you speak of. I could start from scratch but my time is somewhat limited. Could you post some links to sources that would narrow my search? I have heard about this before and haven’t had time to delve into it. It sounds bizarre but I guess at this point I would put NOTHING past our government. I will say that if what you say is true, the people need to know about it so that we can win our country back.

      • GALT

        plug UCC 1-207 into any search engine……look for links to Howard Freeman

      • GALT
      • Average Joe

        I believe that UCC 1- 207 is now found at UCC 1-308 ( they like to move it around to keep us hunting for it, lol).
        1-207 (or 1-308) is called recourse and UCC 1-103 it the remedy.
        I wrote “without prejudice” UCC 1-207 on my driver’s license during my last renewal and they cut it up and told me that they couldn’t issue me a license in the state of Florida if I insisted on putting that on the license ( they claimed that a law prevented me from putting it on there…I asked to see the law…and was told that there was a statute that prevented them from telling what the law was…..lmao)…I took the license W/O the UCC statement….and then wrote it on the back of the card in ink…and had it notarized on the same day….( for date purposes).

      • GALT

        Yeah, I noticed that……..haven’t been in court in awhile, I guess I’ll have to step up my “civil disobedience” to keep my hand in……still not the only thing that’s changed, the IRS is handling the w-4 stuff, directly…you used to be able to go straight to the SSA……so that seems like it would be more fun……….besides there’s are neat little case the EEOC did, in the 9th circuit….for the reg…..I listed above……but I haven’t been able to find it…….that was solid precedent…….which is why all this stuff works……they can’t afford that to happen…..which is why anyone that knows their stuff…..they have to let walk…….I guess it is not as much fun pretending you are gonna shoot someone, someday……..me, I’ll settle for not having to part with the benefit of the currency I have to use……still that’s what us libertard, socialists, progressives, commies do……..ya gotta love it. Take care……

      • http://gravatar.com/dawgbisquit1 Tom W.

        Whatever ya do NiN, don’t listen to anything Jordan Maxwell has to say! Although quite knowledgeable and fascinating at first, I and others believe him to be an illumunati shill!!!

      • Average Joe

        Nancy in Nebraska,
        I posted above…. a few links that may be of interest to you as well. One is the same link that GALT posted above. My personal favorite is the Team Law site, but the Howard Freeman site is excellent as well ( I have conversed with Mr. Freeman a few times over the years and he is quite knowlegable).

      • JeffH

        Nancy, GALT is correct. I had to look it up several weeks ago…may I also suggest this:

        Treason in Government!
        Admiralty on Land!!
        Where’s the Water?
        http://www.barefootsworld.net/admiralty.html

    • Opal the Gem

      I see the comic relief (galt, deerinwater, nc, etc.) is out in force today.

    • demsagainst obama

      “…the “conservative’s claiming the mandate ( which is not there )…”

      How is “you must purchase insurance or pay a hefty fine” not a mmandate.

      • GALT

        how is a statute which has no enforcement mechanism and specifically directs those that could enforce it, not to….a mandate?

        of course you are paying a voluntary income tax when you have no income to tax, so I guess seeing things that do not exist……is easy for you?

    • Rev. Jess Thompson Sr

      Galt you are so full of it that you don’t even make any sense. The Government is supposed to be limited by the Constitution but has gotten out of any kind of control since FDR was in office. By the way the 16th Amendment was never ratified and is therefore against the law but nobody takes the time to realize that it was passed to pay for the second world war and was supposed to end after the war was paid for a long time ago. It is about time that we got back to a constitutional republic as was established by the founding fathers and get away from this nanny state that has been established by the liberals/progressives/marxists. We are not Europe and our forefathers left that mentally desieased group to build a new and better nation and way of life. If you want to live under those circumstances drop your citizenship and move to Europe to become a serf instead of a citizen.

      • http://gravatar.com/dawgbisquit1 Tom W.

        PREACH Rev., PREACH!!!

      • Stuart Shepherd

        Where’s your church, Reverand Thompson? I want to come! I’m pretty sure that God did not intend for us to be stupid, or cowards, and not speak the truth! He called himself “Truth”!!!!!!

  • http://www.facebook.com/michael.schafer.7564 Michael Schafer

    The SPLC and other Liberal org’s are furthering the possibility of another civil war in this country by promoting racial, economic, and class division. They have the absolute blessing of our fraud-in-chief. We can only hope and pray that the majority of Americans wake up and decide to fight on the side of truth and real justice, the Conservative side. God Bless America.

    Remember 1776 and Keep Your Powder Dry!

    • JUKEBOX

      Isn’t it ironic that their headquarters are in the Capitol of the Confederacy, Montgomery, AL.

      • http://gravatar.com/dawgbisquit1 Tom W.

        Just a little bit JB! LOL!!! Oh, I wish I were in Dixie, horay, horay…

    • http://gravatar.com/dawgbisquit1 Tom W.

      As much as I hate to admit it, and I really do HATE it, Galt is correct on ONE point although he DOES have it bass ackwards, THEIR stratagy IS to divide and conquer!!!

      • GALT

        yes it is…….and they have……and you helped…….meanwhile Bob has stated that the purpose of business is to make a profit……..so what he is doing is clear…….what you are doing………priceless????? Gotta go tommy…..I’ll slice and dice you some other day……

      • dawgbisquit1

        I’ve been cut with sharper bowling balls! LOL!!!

  • CR

    The Iowa platform, what a great start at taking back our country.

    • Deerinwater

      Right! And we all need to get in the Dairy Business.

      • http://gravatar.com/dawgbisquit1 Tom W.

        Utterly Qu.. I mean DEER! LOL!!!

    • eddie47d

      Iowa is a fairly moderate state yet it now has hundreds of millionaires. Some small farmers have million dollar land values and Ethanol kings are everywhere.

      • http://gravatar.com/dawgbisquit1 Tom W.

        [offensive post removed]

      • JeffH

        Another recipient of phycotic subliminal programming…class envy!

  • Kane Bonkers

    Interesting. I consider myself a “red blooded American”. I believe in our Constitution, Bill of Rights and the “Rule of Law”.
    I find myself in complete agreement with Iowa’s Republican Party Platform, yet the SPLC seems to be at complete odds with it!
    Who’s on first?
    Seems to me that the SPLC needs an “attitude adjustment”.
    Maybe a couple of years of living in a totalitarian country might open their eyes! Unless they consider themselves the propaganda mouthpiece for the Politchak?

    • Mike in MI

      Kane -
      They certainly will get that opportunity; the experience can be previewed as Biblical.
      It’s seen in the Revelation of John the Apostle. They don’t want to have anything to do with God… So, He’ll cast the whole bunch off for a while to live under the auspices of the mentor and authority of what they have chosen by default.
      Christians don’t have to worry about going through that when it starts. But the run up to it beginning is going to get really nasty…for anybody who won’t study to learn how God ‘v has, can, will and does protect and guard His kids.
      Just because you’ve never seen it doesn’t mean it doesn’t or can’t happen. It’s primarily a measure of how badly what is called “Christian” doctrine is corrupted. But believe me I’ve experienced how He is committed to respond to His Truth when it is simply believed.
      It is Written: God is faithful. His Word is faithful.

      • http://gravatar.com/dawgbisquit1 Tom W.

        Under a rod of IRON Mike! Preach Bro!!!

        “And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.” – Luke 21:28 (KJV)

        If your a$$ ain’t ready, you’d BETTER get ready!!!

    • http://gravatar.com/dawgbisquit1 Tom W.

      Yeah Kane, but WHY should the rest of us suffer because of these idiots?!! It’d be different if they were the ONLY ones to go to the gulag camps! They wouldn’t take Karlolyn though, as they would concider that self imposed torture! Could you imagine having to strip search her?!! WHEWWW! LOL!!!

      http://mrscarrigan.com/2011/07/maxine-cartoon-on-mooning/

  • Chester

    You CLAIM to oppose government intervention in people’s private lives, yet are all for one of the biggest, most offensive interventions ever created, the right to deny a woman an abortion simply because YOU don’t believe she should be allowed to have one. Have studied a lot of these things, and that one is still a HUGE sticking point between me and the ultra-right, which you most assuredly ARE a member of. As far as what the SPLC thinks and advertises, that is their problem, not mine, as they, like the ACLU, have declared me a member of an unprotected minority who deserves whatever happens, be it from legal or illegal means.

    • Lucy

      “You CLAIM to oppose government intervention in people’s private lives, yet are all for one of the biggest, most offensive interventions ever created, the right to deny a woman an abortion simply because YOU don’t believe she should be allowed to have one.”

      Why can’t the liberals understand this concept?!? The reason we believe in freedom & liberty FOR ALL Americans, as long as you are not harming anyone else, is the same reason we believe in protecting the fetus! Abortion is MURDER!

      • Karolyn

        That’s if you believe a fetus is a person. I believe that the spirit of that developing person just goes on to try again in another body if it so wishes. There really is no such thing as death. The spirit lives on forever, whether in another body or the cosmos. I totally believe that never being born is preferable to being born into an unwanted situation, where the lifestyle is not conducive to living a happy productive life.

      • http://peresonallibertydigest.. gottaplenty

        Lucy I hope you recognize that you cant revive a dead mind. Havnt you noticed how those libtards always claim to be of a higher degree of intelegence, then conviently claim how ignorant you are because you do not believe murder of babies is correctness progressive style

      • eddie47d

        Gottaplenty: No matter how many times Liberals and Libertarians shout from the rooftops that these foreign wars are counterproductive,cause thousands to die and at unbearable costs to each nation we continue this march to world dominance.When are Conservatives and some Progressives going to stop their madness? The disease is generational ignorance perpetuated by the Elite of all stripes.

      • http://gravatar.com/dawgbisquit1 Tom W.

        All I can say here Broomhilda is that it is a SHAME that your mother didn’t have a right to CHOOSE! (MURDER!) That goes for you also Chester! ONLY GOD HAS A RIGHT TO CHOOSE!!! Say why don’t you two exchange numbers?! Y’all a match made in hell!!!

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        Lucy, Chester and Karolyn are ABORTION-MOUNGERS, or ABORTIONITES, ones of the birth-ist sect, for whom the lives of prenatal children or other target populations have no significance at all. They enthusiastically promote abortion as a positive solution for a multitude of problems.

        They suffer from what is commonly know as; ABORTIONITE-BLIND-SPOT: the defect in the conscience of ABORTIONITES resulting from the practice of ABORTION-THINK such that the target population of the particular ABORTIONITE sect has ceased to exist in the ABORTIONITE’S mind as human persons. It is for this reason that ABORTIONITES just don’t get it when it comes to understanding oppostion to their sacraments (crimes).

        As well, and in addition, they suffer from; ABORTIONITE-SYNDROME: The full range of characteristics common to practicing ABORTIONITES including mastery of ABORTION-THINK, fluency in ABORTION-SPEAK, and possession of a fully developed ABORTIONITE BLIND-SPOT.

        Individuals who possess these skills are capable of looking at piles of bodies, whether pre-natal children or death camp victims stacked in ovens, and not see human beings.

      • http://gravatar.com/macgyver1948 macgyver1948

        Lucy… “Why can’t the liberals understand this concept?!? “. What concept are you mixing in? We liberals, most of us, believe in free choice and the right to decide what goes on in our lives and in our bodies. Your religious beliefs, or personal, do not figure in for any one but for you. If I do not like how you wear your hair then you can’t be allowed to wear it that way. The more liberties we take from people the more those who want to take will take. A small compassionate but it speaks to the point of FREEDOM.

        By the way, most liberals do not want abortion, many of us do not like the concept. But we feel in a free country, such as America, no one’s liberties should not be messed with even if your religion says to mess with it. Let’s not get stupid and bring in dangerous laws like “stand your ground” where the attacker, perhaps with a gun, has the right to shoot-to-death his victim just because his victim chose to defend himself. We could go around all day on that dangerous law.

        The point is individual liberty is what should take precedence over majority rule in a free country. The Founding Fathers said that too. They fought a Revolutionary War for that kind of thing, as well as many others.

        When it comes to abortion I do not want involvement but I’m not a women and it would not be my body. Will conservatives pay for an UN-planned child or a child of rape? That’s a lot of years for you guys to pay for all a child need.

    • peggy

      so you would vote for a dictator, so women can have abortions? perhaps you should try some home work. look at clinton, obama, and the u.s. they r signing away our soverignty.
      u need to do some home work, boy.

      • http://gravatar.com/dawgbisquit1 Tom W.

        LOL!!! SHE CALLED YOU A BOY! she had to be talkin’ to you Qu… I mean Deer! LOL!!! Yeah, I am havin’ too much fun, tell ‘em about it Jimmy!!!

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjGHwGkFIFw

    • http://http//yahoo.com sophillyjimmy

      Chester the molester, how could you say that the government intervention is denying the rights to a woman having an abortion on the grounds that the right wing thinks it is not her right to have one, but simply because the unborn child it not able to answer if he/she does not want to be aborted, you think it is ok for that child to be torn out of its mothers womb limb from limb it is ok to commit genocide.
      The best thing for people with your mentality is to either have a vasectomy or have the women you are impregnating to have their tubes tied then an abortion will not be necessary.
      I know to you that would be a bad option but sometimes the good of the many outweigh the good of the few or in your case, the one.

      • http://peresonallibertydigest.. gottaplenty

        castration would be a more positive aproach sophillyjimmy

      • Marten The Canadian Libertarian

        Abortion is advocated only by persons who have themselves been born…The right to choose starts before you sleep together…And Life is a sexually transmitted disease with 100% Mortality Rate…

      • http://gravatar.com/dawgbisquit1 Tom W.

        phillymon! LOL!!! Tears! LOL!!!

      • http://gravatar.com/dawgbisquit1 Tom W.

        [Offensive post removed]

    • Ted Crawford

      I neither claim to, nor wish to, speak for the entire ” Right”, However as a Conservative Moderate I, and most I am aware of are opposed to Abortion on moral grounds. That being said we are not advocating to make Abortion illegal. The current Legal Defination of Life would render that un Constitutional. What we do advocate is that NO Federal monies should be used for that purpose, without compelling evidence that the Mothers life is in danger, or Incest or Rape is involved. Many of us do work to get that Legal Defination changed however!

      • Buster the Anatolian

        There recently was a proposal put forth in the UK that supported post birth abortion. In other words you would have a certain time after the child was born, say 6 months, to decide you didn’t want it and have it killed. As far as I know the idea had little acceptance if not outright opposition but it was put forth.

    • druoak01

      The Constitutiional creators wrote this fine document taking quite almost all issues both relative then and equally relative in the present. The document was written in such that it lay out basic, fundamental guiding principals. Whether the issue of abortion is used in an either for or against in the same sentence of “federal government” delineates its un-Constitutionality. Clearly, the religionists are adamantly opposed, while the material rationalists remain neutral. The latter falls in accordance with Constitutionalism. While the religionists over-state blanket generalizations like, women that get one, after another, after another is a point of contention, is none-the-less a way over-stated point. I uphold that the decision lay with the individual. That is the “right to decide for oneself” and in complete alignment with the Constitution. I verbally debase those “dictators” that think that a women raped, and this has happened by female military peronnel in both Iraq & Afghanistan, has no right to decide for herself as to her decision. My statement is just. I care less what others think. Educating young people about the value from abstaining at least until the legal age is reasonable, yet any legal provision mandating it as such, is equally offensive. Birth control education is necessary for young people to make the proper choices. Religion has no place in political discussion except where demarcations are made to delineate where such discussion is appropriate. I remain neutral.

    • Rev. Jess Thompson Sr

      If an eagles egg is a baby eagle then a fetus is a baby humanbeing and taking the life of another human is called murder and is against the law. If you touch an eagels egg you go to jail for touching an endangerd species and if you touch a baby you should go to jail for attempted murder or murder. Biologically speaking life begins at conception regarless of the law and a law needs to be passed that acknowleges that fact.

      • dawgbisquit1

        SIC ‘EM Rev.!!! Both barrels Jess!

  • sandman4X4

    ever hear the one about the two rascals that “work” in a $55,000,000 office building with poor in it’s name, and pay themselves $300,000/yr! and has the gaull to throw stones! I think gault has been working way way to much for those two above, (for not so much$$$), and makes it a habit of drinking from the company water fountain.

  • Rasta

    The idiot Right is at it again. What is your point? Oh that’s right you don’t have one.

    • http://boblivingstonpl.wordpress.com Bob Livingston

      Dear Rasta,

      Another scintillating reply from the debate team champ. Your intellect truly boggles.

      Best wishes,
      Bob

      • http://gravatar.com/dawgbisquit1 Tom W.

        He be smokin’ that ganja Bob mon! LOL!!!

    • peggy

      first wash your hair, your braids r probably too tight, and it is affecting your thinking processes. The “idiot right” does not want to live under a dictatorship. No one is perfect, left or right, however, the right is trying to save our country. Read the constitution, you can read? Obama, the monster u r deifying, has broken nearly every law on the books, but he has still has time to make 100% We know what you socialists r up to – a welfare state. u see how well europe is doing. u r misinformed and probably on the welfare dole yourself. there will be an end to the party in the welfare office, when the “IDIOT RIGHT” regains the white house. enjoy your day RASTA? nice name.

      • http://gravatar.com/dawgbisquit1 Tom W.

        You know how they get dreds don’t ya peggy?! They simply don’t wash their hair! You ever been close enough to smell one of them?!! Peeeewwww! LOL!!!

  • flajim

    I’m jealous of Mr Boldin being on that list. Right wing, check; I truly do hate the usurper for what he’s doing to our country; and I support the Constitution, although I’d like to see a few amendments annulled. There’s nothing in the Iowa GOP platform which I disagree with.

    Hey, SPLC, my full name is James C McAlister and I’m from Tampa. Go after me if you like but be forewarned that I’m armed with more than just firearms.

    • peggy

      me too flajim, i’ve got your back.

      • http://gravatar.com/dawgbisquit1 Tom W.

        LOCKED AND LOADED!!!

  • former walmart person

    One of these days, I want to burn the UN flag in my back yard and then piss on it as a means of putting it out. Why oh why would all these hippies burn the American Flag when there is a perfectly good UN flag to burn?

    • Deerinwater

      Trite symbolic gestures has never achieved anything other then create frustration and register protest, the effects more of a water pistol on a house fire.

      • http://gravatar.com/dawgbisquit1 Tom W.

        Funny, that’s Mz. Qu… I mean Deer said about you! LOL!!!

  • Kay

    So characteristic of liars to say black is white and white is black. On the contrary, the Iowa platform is a refreshing step back to sanity.

    • Deerinwater

      I always enjoyed Mayberry!

      • http://gravatar.com/dawgbisquit1 Tom W.

        You are GOOBER! LOL!!!

    • nc

      Kay, I can hardly wait until we do away with immunization laws and “step back” to the sanity(?) of the wonderful world of small pox! Long live the Iowans who are left if there are any!!There is nothing like burying whole families to stop hate crimes and abortions!

      • Buster the Anatolian

        Smallpox has been declaired eradicated so it is almost impossible to get a smallpox vaccination. Welcome to the real world nc.

      • http://gravatar.com/dawgbisquit1 Tom W.

        It just goes to show how much THE PEOPLE trust THEIR own government idiot!!!

  • Dave67

    Always like right wing extremists defending other right wing extremists…. Its good entertainment.

    Evolution is theory? Really? LOL…

    This just goes to prove that not all conservatives are stupid, but all stupid people are conservative.

    • peggy

      dave, did the right bail out the banks? i believe it was the bum. did the right bail out gm? no? hmmmm. i believe it was the bum. the bum want to take away our guns, so holder gives them to mexican cartels. the right want to keep our guns to keep mexican cartels out of our country. al gore has made billions from his green b.s, but lives in a 42,000 sf house, and the right is crazy. get your head out of your rump.

      • Dave67

        Ummm Peggy…. The first bailout was courtesy of the conservative George W Bush…. Who started filling the Fed with ex Goldman Sachs people? Ronald Reagan…

        I do love that conservatives are never responsible anything….

      • Ted Crawford

        Dave67
        You are correct, that TARP originated in Bush ’43′s administration, however the bulk of the monies (about 2/3 ) was left for Obama to spend at his discretion. Bush ’43′, not my favorite President, by far, understood that the situation was still developing and that Obama would need it to effectively handle the problems.

      • Dave67

        Ted,

        Bush and Obama are not even the main culprits n why we got to that point. Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton and their respective Congress’s bear most of the blame. They made credit too easy to obtain, they loosened the rules concerning what banks could and could not do… Reagan made it way easy for people to get credit cards to hang themselves with. This economy was 30 years in the making.

      • Mike in PA

        Actually President Bush bailed out the banks.

      • JeffH

        Dave67, you say Bush is a conservative? You’ve lost any credibility you may have had with that one. You’re lost and you got a long road ahead of you if you belive that.

    • Lucy

      Evolution has NEVER been proven, it IS theory!

      • Dave67

        That is a lie…. Evolution has been proven in lower cell count lifeforms…. How do you think bacteria and lifeforms develop immunity to our medicines that were designed to kill them? They evolved. So you seriously do not think evolution could not happen in more complex beings over a longer period of time?

        Now creationism… Do you really think the human race started with Adam and Eve? Wouldn’t their children be guilty of inbreeding if Adam and Eve had male and female children to begin with?

      • Nancy in Nebraska

        You’re correct, Lucy! But some people believe that if you tell a lie often enough, it will become the truth. And there are many STUPID people out there who will believe anything they’re told. A THEORY is just a THEORY!!! Nothing more!!!

      • uvuvuv

        actually a reply to dave 67, but after they develop the immunity are they not STILL bacteria?

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        nc says: How do you think bacteria and lifeforms develop immunity to our medicines that were designed to kill them? They evolved.

        Incorrect. They simply re-aranged their protein sequencing. This procedure is merely a defence-response, it must not be confused with evolving/evolution, or development.

      • Mike in MI

        Hey Dave 67 – If you get back to this:
        I’ve got a suggestion to inform your mental skeptic’s-cemia.
        Dr. Stephen Meyer, a man who has more “PhD’s” after his name than you have I.Q. points, wrote a book recently called “Signature in the Cell”. In it he presents information and evidence regarding the suitability (or otherwise) about all the theories of evolution – and footnotes them.
        There’s a large minor detail shared by all living things whose nuclei contain DNA that all theories of evolution can not deal with – or overcome. So, before you go extending your long, accusatory finger of disdain consider his thesis.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=756367288 Alan Biggs

      The only evidence for Darwin’s theory of evolution is fake evidence, and every time Darwiniacs are caught hawking fake “proof,” they complain that it’s merely a “gap” in the theory. The Darwiniacs play a shell game with the evidence, but the evidence is never under any of the shells. The point isn’t that schoolchildren should be “taught the controversy”—schoolchildren should be taught the truth. This includes: • the truth about the entire fossil record, which shows a very non-Darwinian progression, noticeably lacking the vast number of transitional species we ought to see • the truth about the Cambrian explosion, in which virtually all the animal phyla suddenly appeared, with no Darwinian ancestors • the truth about the Galápagos finch population changing not one bit since Darwin first observed the finches more than 170 years ago • the truth about the peppered moth experiment • the truth about Haeckel’s embryos being a fraud perpetrated by a leading German eugenicist • the truth about the Miller-Urey experiment being based on premises that are no longer accepted • the truth about the nonexistence of computer simulations of the evolution of the eye These aren’t gaps in a scientific theory—there is no scientific theory. There is only a story about how a bear might have fallen into the ocean and become a whale. As Colin Patterson asked, What is any one true thing about evolution? In the end, evolutionists’ only argument is contempt. The cultists know that if people were allowed to hear the arguments against evolution for just sixty seconds, all would be lost. So they demonize the people making those arguments. You’re just saying that because you believe in God! You probably believe in a flat Earth, too! You sound like a Holocaust revisionist! That’s all you ever get.

      Coulter, Ann (2006-06-06). Godless: The Church of Liberalism (pp. 243-244). Crown Forum. Kindle Edition.

      • Dave67

        The only thing Ann Coulter is an expert on is how to lie and smear the left while the right does nothing wrong… ever… Sell crazy somewhere else… We are all filled up here.

      • GALT

        There are no GAPS in the THEORY of EVOLUTION, there is the “god of the gaps”, but he is dead now………so the only thing that actually is REAL, is that YOU have no concept of what a “scientific theory” is…………..and it is really quite simple….so PAY ATTENTION…..

        A “scientific theory” is the best explanation for the “evidence” that exists.

        To discredit it, you need to produce a “better explanation” for the EVIDENCE.

        The only element of evolution that was ever in doubt was the operational mechanism of natural selection, and that ended with the completion of the human genome project…..
        so that we know that our cousin’s the chimps, from whom we diverged 6 million years ago, share 98% percent, give or take of our DNA……..of course, observing your mind at work, the relationship may be stronger……as you insist on demonstrating that you are simply more of a “talking monkey”, or a “typing one”?

        Francis Collin’s has written DNA; The Language of GOD……it a safer place to hide……
        it doesn’t work……but it at least understands the concept of “evidence” and what a “scientific theory” IS?

      • Nancy in Nebraska

        GALT, a theory is still just a theory! “Best explanation” won’t cut it! If you choose to accept that a theory becomes fact without definitive proof, that’s your prerogative. But a theory is still a theory unless PROVEN otherwise.

      • GALT

        Sorry dear, if you want to play in the game of the empirical, you are stuck with the rules…………….and in this game, a theory is not a theory…….I don’t blame you for not wanting to play………..because in this ballpark “you got no game”………the empirical deals with EVIDENCE……….any good dictionary will explain this…….

      • uvuvuv

        to galt, a scientific law first has to be proven with the scientific method. first the theory, a dropped ball will go down, testing of theory (it worked, it worked), and then further testing by other parties (yes, we have a new law of physics). uh, see you in 10,000,000 bc so we can check evolution out using this method. actually you could do the study now. there are still primitive lifeforms just waiting to develop so they too can someday build space shuttles. the swamps are crawling with evolutionary scientists working on this very project. join them, you get to play in the mud.

      • uvuvuv

        every time they dig up a tooth somewhere they try to figure out how it fits in. then they say, this tooth overturns everything we know about evolution. then there is the artists conception of this new dinosaur, which is 40 feet tall and has webbed feet, and then they go and say it’s the precursor of the whale, which in turn was the precursor of horses, which went on to develop a prehensile grip and swing through trees. you got it right, we all came from that tooth.

      • GALT

        Yeah well uvuvuv, I have bad news and good news……everytime a fossil of any kind appears, it contains mitochodrial dna, which is the entire genetic code for that ‘species”
        at that point in time………no more gaps no more transitional fossil crap, its all there…….

        the good news is the first article of the bill of rights say you can believe whatever fairy tale you like…….and I don’t particularly care, unless you think that my not believing it, is a problem………

        in the scheme of things, who do think is more dangerous, some one who is living their life
        based on what they are experiencing and is seeking to continue it……….and is willing to let you do the same…….or someone who knows that life doesn’t matter because there is another one, and that in order to get to that one they have to deny the reality of this one, which is “all they really know”?

        Luckily, most of you are just “talk”….pretty much the same as with other things…..but remember……there are others out there who take this stuff seriously…….

      • Nancy in Nebraska

        GALT, my statement stands! Just because you say it, doesn’t make it so!

      • GALT

        and I respect your right to believe in fairy tales…….Nancy…….how is this a problem?

      • Buster the Anatolian

        “…everytime a fossil of any kind appears, it contains mitochodrial dna,…”

        First time I have seen that pile of $hit stated. Fossils are composed of ROCK and in only one or two instances have I heard of ANY hint of DNA being found in one. If your claim is true Jurassic Park would have happened years ago for real not just in a movie.

      • GALT

        Rock, really? Well back in the real world….

        http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/mtDNA.html

        Fossil Hominids: mitochondrial DNA

      • Carol J

        All that ranting about a THEORY. Why don’t you look up the word in a dictionary and see what it means.

      • GALT

        I don’t think it would matter if they actually looked it up……Carol……..and if you wait long enough…..the definitions change to “common usage”…….it doesn’t matter what the words mean…..only what people think they mean. Now there is this stuff called etymology……

      • revnowwhilewecan

        Galt,
        You were doing good on this thread until now. The theory of evolution is dead. Even a lot of human fossil records can’t get a good dna match to explain the “theory”. I’m no bible banger by any means but if you really think natural selection is our reason for being here then you’re really not as opened minded a first appeared. I understand you need scientific 5 senses proof but you don’t really believe in Darwinism for our existence do you?

      • revere

        You might want to check the bibliography in Ann’s book. Oh, she didn’t include one? Hmmm.

      • GALT

        nah, rev….I’m still doing good……..and the worst is yet to come……but as the quote goes in the The Gladiator, “But not yet”.

        Still none of this is relevant……….I don’t care what you believe……..and I have no wish to harm you or stop you from doing what you want or believing what you want…….

        And you are not paying me to educate you….in my universe, my only asset is time……and I do find this amusing……….so you got lucky…….do with it what you will.

    • Dead Right

      Hello Dave:
      Evolution is a theory with absolutely not one provable cause-effect relationship to demonstrate speciation either over time which is limited to 3.8 billion years, or instantly, which is limited to the need for more than 50 million DNA code changes just to get from a snake to a lizard. Micro-evolution is provable. A leap of faith is required to apply it to macro-evolution, speciation.

      Converting all matter in the observable universe to life’s building blocks, enzymes and proteins, given 1 million chances per second, with all available time, 14 billion years, the chances of one E. coli cell self assembling is 1 to 10 to the 99,999,999,916.
      The data of one gram of DNA is equivalent to the data on one trillion CDs. Where did it come from?

      Kirt Godell’s incompleteness theorem demonstrates that complex systems require systems more complex to understand or precede them. Cells would need an even higher complexity to promote and predestine increasing complexity. Not to mention preditor-prey, host-parasite simultaneous emergence.

      The fossil record shows from 5 to 7 life elimination events and then sudden appearance of thousands of new species.

      No problem keeping it as a theory….

      • GALT

        Godel was dealing with mathematics, not reality. Math is not real……..but if you would like some math practice on probabilities…….then use RNA……..here the probabiliities are
        5!4! which works out to about 2300 to 1, not very hard……then you have a planet where
        complex life ( more than one cell ) appears 545 million years ago……..leaving 4 billion, to go from RNA to DNA…………which seems way too long, but that’s just me………

      • Dead Right

        Sir galt:
        “math is not real”
        Math is the language of the scientific endeavor. Though incomplete, it is the resting place for the conversation and explanatory power of science.
        Relate the uncertainty principal to the incompleteness theorem and you begin to understand why science’s supposed empirical explanations have limitations and percentages of possibility to explain a cause and effect.
        The very lens through which the data is perceived is the first in a long set of imperfect data collection points.

      • GALT

        Math is the language of science because it attempts to quantify and measure things……and when it does this, it is useful………..unfortunately, in reality “infinities” do not exist, nor do irrational numbers……….but they are quite common to “mathematics”. and when they appear….it is an indication that something is WRONG.

        Godel’s Incompleteness Theorem……deals with “mathematical systems”……it is irrelevant to “reality”……….

      • Dennis48e

        “………..unfortunately, in reality “infinities” do not exist, nor do irrational numbers……….”

        And your proof is???

      • GALT

        Proof is not my problem……..show me an infinity, just one? I can not prove a negative, and in terms of logical argument, the burden of proof rests with the positive assertion.

        Infinity is a mathematical concept/ property……as is the square root of 2 or -1……

        But you can not show -1 sheep, or -1 anything, and you can not show me anything infinite either, and if the square root of two, really never ends, then nothing that was square, could possibly exist……not would circles exist, because pi never ends either…….catching on yet? or must we continue this nonsense?

      • Dennis48e

        You made the claim galt it is up to you to prove it not up to us to disprove it.

      • GALT

        Sorry, but I can’t find any infinities, so that makes me right! Your turn?

      • GALT

        Times up…..you couldn’t find any either? I guess we agree there are NO INFINITIES in REALITY………..( did you learn anything Dennis?….ANYTHING? )

      • revnowwhilewecan

        Galt,
        Look into the night sky, just once, and tell me how many miles til the end? Infinity too far away for you? I’ll bring it closer. 22/7. You need it to find the circumference of a circle. Pi goes inward to infinity. These are physical examples of infinity. “There is no reality in math”….LOL. Your thoughts, no matter how enclosed or narrow minded they may be, stretch out to infinity. For you to believe in one scientific theory and not another is laughable and exposes you bias.

      • GALT

        Let’s see rev, it’s about 13. something billion years old………and the furthest galaxies are still only receding at 90% of light speed……..so the geometry is about flat, and that ain’t infinite son…….because if it is still expanding, it has to be expanding into something….
        unfortunately space/time is matter/energy dependent……in science space doesn’t actually
        exist, unless there is something material to fill it. Sorry, it’s that “empirical rule” stuff……you got something better, write a paper……….I’m sure it will be well received……if you need a tutor, send a check…….

      • GALT

        Sorry, I missed the pi stuff……it doesn’t go inward to infinity……every digit you add to it, makes it larger……….99.1 cents is smaller than 99.12 cents……..pi has been calculated to
        and extreme amount of digits……….to use it for anything REAL you might need 25, depending on how accurate you want to be……..and that would be for the universe itself.
        Try Asimov……..you can find his books and essays on anything…..scientific… or try his Guide to Science…..which is late 90′s, or send a check…….fiat money is fine.

    • Brian

      Dave, There is TONS of evidence for devine creation, and NONE for evolution. But just answer me this: How do you make evolution work in light of the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics? Guess you are going to have to push the “I Believe” button?

      • Dave67

        Prove it Brian… Prove that humans started from Adam and Eve… The Bible is not a factual document… You have no idea how the world started and neither do scientists… But you act as if you do… its due to faith… faith and fact have different meanings… I feel stronger going with people have can prove their theories…

      • Dead Right

        The primary reason to think that humanity arose from a single pair does not rest on population estimates, but the fact that the Y-chromosomal and mitochondrial DNA sequences sampled from humans alive today trace back to single ancestral sequences. Again, these can be understood as reflecting an origin from a single man and single woman.
        http://www.reasons.org/articles/were-they-real-the-scientific-case-for-adam-and-eve

      • Nancy in Nebraska

        The bible IS the word of GOD!!!

      • Dead Right

        What you believe colors how you perceive.
        The lens that you call fact is actually your faith in your own lens. Data is data read through a probe that interferes with understanding the raw data. Most of what you take as fact is in fact handed to you from authority you trust, (faith). Those in authority often lens the data for their own purposes just as the accusation that the bible does the same.

        All of these arguments come down to accusing each other of having read “all the wrong books.”

        Cicvil society, the conservative view, is to maintain a center, preventing totalitarianism on the one end from colluding with anarchy on the other end. It is based on ideas that are tested given man’s response to various stimulus and motivation. Liberalism on the other hand is merely an “anti” response imagining their ideas have not been tried and discarded by common sense clear thinking peoples through times past.

      • GALT

        Which version? You would think that the word of god would be somewhat consistent?

      • Dave67

        No Nancy, the Bible is the word of Man who thought they knew the world of god DECADES and Centuries after the events happened and you know what god says about putting faith in man…

        Quite the conundrum… don’t you think?

      • Brian

        I guess I have to reply to myself since there is no reply button under your comment Dave. However, I am unable to answer your question, because it cannot be “proven.” Then again, neither can evolution be “proven.” To prove something, scientifically speaking, requires it to be reproducable, an impossiblity for either view at best. That leaves us with deciding the truth by observation and study of the physical world around us. And from what I have observed, the theory of evolution leaves a lot to be desired. Darwin himself expressed doubts about his theory (read the book.)
        Back to my question. How does the the 2nd law of Thermodynamics fit into evolution? I’ll answer it for you: it doesn’t. It completely contradicts evolution. Something that is observable in every day life (metal rusts, wood rots, etc.) completely opposes the constituion of matter into more and more complex molecules eventually combining with more to eventually form living cells?
        If you really do have an open mind (I assume you do), you should be willing to explore all posibilities. The truth is out there.

      • GALT

        Dead Argument Brian………..there is no second law violation……..there is an energy surplus on the earth……..due to solar input…..and this argument was refuted as soon as it was made…………in order to make a scientific argument, you actually have to understand what the science IS first………what’s next Behe’s “irreducible complexity” argument?

        You want to actually understand the SCIENCE, try “Life Ascending”……

      • Brian

        So let’s see… mindless, random energy from the sun created the first living cell from inanimate material? Does that really seem reasonable to you? If that is the case, why do we not see that happening today? New forms of life should be springing up all around us.
        I submit that your acceptance of evolution as fact is as much a leap of faith as my belief in Divine Creation.
        Oh, and Dave. You are right. There is no 100% capitalistic country that I am aware of. And that is the problem the right is trying to “right!” The right would love nothing more than to simply get government out of the way. We consider it a necessary evil.

      • Dave67

        “Dave, There is TONS of evidence for devine creation”

        Do not use the bible and prove that gratuitous assertion that there is a god much less “devine creation”

        The bible is not fact… Do you really believe a snake spoke to Eve and Adam and Eve got kicked out of paradise doe eating a fruit?

        Or how about a man living inside of another animal? That is factual?

        Or how about an Ark that housed every animal on the planet for 40 days and nothing was eaten?

        Fairytales do not fact make.

      • Dead Right

        Galt and brian:S
        Second law of thermodynamics is required for life to function.
        No known mechanism has been proven or explained to show how the local power of the sun converted energy into information like dna. The power of the sun in excess provided the energy for life, but not the life itself.

        Present science accepted, the use of observation through telescopes and linear accelerators and nuclear theoreticians is how we now have arrived at the fact the universe had a beginning, 12.7 to 14 billion years ago. The math in various forms has shown this data to be the closest we can ascertain.

      • GALT

        Actually Miller-Urey managed complete amino acids chains with a little electricity and that was 60+ years ago………listen you are boringly out of date…….plug this stuff into a search engine…….all the answers are there…..when you have something you think will stick, write a paper……….thats what all the fakes do……and they get slapped down…..

      • GALT

        Dear dead wrong………the laws or thermo dynamics operate together…….entropy rules the entire system……….total amount of available energy decreases over time…….for smaller systems…it is the over all system where this is applied……in this case our solar system……in which the total amount of available energy, is decreasing……..that the earth
        is gaining energy, is NOT a violation of the second law….because it is not “the system”….
        now please go play with someone else………….btw mitochondrial dna is female….and has been traced back to several origins, all in africa…….supporting the out of africa hypothesis………and this goes back to pre homo sapien lines…..

      • Dead Right

        Yes sir galt and that was 60 years ago. Since then the incredible amount of control required to move beyond that point has demonstrated that without extreme control over the elements, timing, outer cell wall and inner workings all happening in perfect timing, demonstrates that the scientists are discovering just how tricky it is other than acting as gods in the lab. Truly complex functions to get to 100 enzyme cell construction has proven virtually impossible with all of our controls to date. Not to mention these conditions of control in the early earth were not present in any natural form. Also demonstrated is the complete lack of any “primordial soup” in the early earth. Please catch up. This has been going on and published for almost 20 years.

    • JUKEBOX

      Dave, that saying could really apply to Liberals, Progressives, Socialists, or whatever label they apply to themselves to disguise their motives.

      • Mike in PA

        Jukebox, “I am rubber you are glue whatever you say bounces off of me and sticks to you”.

    • ROGER O

      Hmmmm chicken or the egg?

      • Nadzieja Batki

        Chicken.

      • GALT

        chegg!

    • http://gravatar.com/dawgbisquit1 Tom W.

      THEORY Dumba$$67! When has the remains of one form of life evolving into another form EVER been discovered?!! Sure there has been a couple of forgeries put out by the scientific community (They can’t STAND to be proven wrong!!!) much like the mis-info released by the British scientists who are lyin’ to prove the global warming T-H-E-O-R-Y!!! Science can only be called so when backed up by F-A-C-T! LOL!!!

      http://onehumanrace.com/docs/darwins_bodysnatchers.asp

      Brought to you by the same fine folks who PROUDLY brought you eugenics!!!

      “And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.” – Luke 16:23-26 (KJV)

  • RGS

    Two more
    * Get out of UN and get the UN out of the USA
    * End the war on drugs and legalize marijuana

    • peggy

      i just love when i find clear thinking people. the u.n. is not necessary. we r spending too much for a seat at thier table. beside the u.n., we need to stop foreigh aid COMPLETELY. and legalize pot, as it has medicinal properties. booze is worse for the body than pot.

      • http://gravatar.com/macgyver1948 macgyver1948

        … and tobacco is a huge killer so why is it still legal? Tobacco is still legal for the same reason Mary Jane is still not legal. That being the super greed of the big corporations and the help the paid-for politicans, and Gov agencies, who support them over us give them.

    • TIME

      Dear RGS,

      Good post!

      Peace and Love

      • ROGER O

        WOW man

  • peggy

    it’s obvious the SPLC is afraid of boldin. that is why they target him. good work my man. peggy

    • GALT

      There is no reason to be afraid of him……..he is no threat, just like Ron Paul…….they are simply distractions…….for you……..making certain, that YOU will never be a threat either…..” To conquer, first DIVIDE! “……..so embarrassingly easy to do, is it not?

      • TIME

        Dear Galt,

        Saddly — YES, to your second question.

        Peace and Love

      • http://http//yahoo.com sophillyjimmy

        Well said Galt, Obama would be proud of you.

      • GALT

        Not really, but he would be proud of YOU.

  • Dave67

    I think they should put in their agenda the world is flat, Unicorns exists… (Mitt Romney still need to prove he is not a Unicorn BTW), Santa and the Easter Bunny are real. Banks should be in charge of our monetary policy (what could go wrong?)… Oh wait… they already are…and more mercury and other poisons are just fine for kids…

    The right are truly crazy. We should just give these people Texas and let the sane people have the rest for form a more perfect union. These extremists want it their way or no way.

    • TIME

      Dear Dave,

      The only thing you have wrong is – {there is no Right nor left, Nor D v R,} etc. Its all just Political Thearter.

      Peace and Love

      • Dave67

        And the Corporatist train keeps on a rolling…..

        But these people who are intent on calling themselves “patriots” do believe… They buy into what ever Fox, Rush, Ann Dick Armey and the Koch Brothers tell them…. Somehow Mitt “All my big contributors are the banks” is better than Barack “Love me some Goldman Sachs” Obama.

        These people talking of taking the country back… From what? Do they think the tea party are somehow not anything more than a corporatist front group? No… They Think Dick Armey and the Koch Brothers have their best interests at heart… Its quite funny.

        All the tea party have done is make sure we get nothing done while the fundamentals of this economy stay the same and we continue to get weaker as a country.

        Its sad what this country has become and it is equally sad how much fear and disinformation/misinformation is put forth by sites such as this.

    • Rev. Jess Thompson Sr

      Lets give NY and Califoria to the Liberals and then remove them from the United States so they can be happy and the rest of us can get on with restoring our country to it’s previous glory. Can anybody say goodbye so long and farwell.

      • Carol J

        Sorry, but California already belongs to either the liberals or the illegal immigrants.

  • William 1

    Shades of Goebles in Nazi Germany future SS here for sure if they survive!

    • eddie47d

      If my responses aren’t printed then you will know there are shades of Nazi Germany. 3 have been taken down already and just on this article.

  • http://personalliberty John

    Hey Galt. Dude, you are no where as smart as you think you are. Arrogant? Absolutely, as most liberals who attempts to put their 1 cent in. You can go home or back to the campus where your delusional viewpoints are tolerated and encouraged. Otherwise your another pointless academic who hopes to sound intelligent. The left , nit the right over the past 50 years have ruined America. You can highlight the few good things they ushered in however it would be dwarfed by the negatives. The blind(that would be you) can not see. Sadly, as with ALL commies you think you have all the answers. Try again galty.

    • TIME

      Dear John

      Perhap you need to really stop with the rhetoric and start thinking way out side your BOX.
      Saddly unitl more Americans wake up and get out of their box’s, things will never get better nor change in a positive way on the people FARM.

      To do the same thing over and over with the same non working results is whats called; Insanity..

      What has ever been done that was Positive for the American people by the De Facto gov we have?
      Go ahead try to name just one thing, you can’t as they don’t work for you, nor have they ever over the last 150 year’s, they work for the NONEY CHANGERS.

      Peace and Love

    • GALT

      and all you have to do to demonstrate all of that is to explain what happened to the jurisdictions of common law and equity……….because there are only four, and if two are missing……then what remains is fairly easy to determine……..you would think that in the 70 years, or 50 on the state level……someone would have noticed………

      that you have not….says more about you, and those you have been listening to……than it says about me?

    • Mike in PA

      Joh Commies went out of use when we won the cold war with Russia, now they are Socialists.

  • KG

    A lot like the “Nuemburg” Laws of Nazi Germany . If Goebbels were alive today, and saw the modern “right wing” in America, he would say (in a heavy German accent) “Excellent!
    Ve could only Dream of a Propaganda organization like FOX et al! Heil!”

    • JUKEBOX

      He would probably give Obama the highest NAZI award for following Mein Kampf.

  • Charlie Tall

    Say what you want, but socialism does not work. It always fails.

    Government cannot ensure liberty; it can only infringe upon it.

    The only way to ensure liberty is to limit government.

    Capitalism (i.e., the free market) is the only economic model that can function without government.

    All the others – communism, socialism, fascism – must have government to impose their rules on the people by force.

    There is something seriously wrong with a society that kills its children and calls it a choice.

    The Department of Energy was created to reduce US dependence on foreign energy. It has failed.

    The Department of Education was created to improve education in the US. It has failed.

    The Department of Homeland Security was created to improve the security of the US. It has failed.

    The Department of Agriculture was formed to meet the needs of farmers and ranchers. It has failed.

    HUD was formed to create strong, sustainable, inclusive communities and quality affordable homes for all. It has failed.

    The Department of Health and Human Services was formed to protect the health of all Americans and provide essential human services. It has failed.

    The Department of Interior was formed to protect America’s natural resources and heritage, honor our cultures and tribal communities, and supply the energy to power our future. It has failed.

    The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives has formed, in part, to reduce gun crimes through gun control enforcement. It has failed.

    Rule 1: Government cannot do anything well except cause hardship and suffering for the people. Anything the government touches it makes worse.
    Corollary A: The less government the better.
    Corollary B: More government means more waste and thus less for everyone.

    Read the Communist Manifesto, then consider the actual government of the US. You will find an almost one-for-one relationship.

    Given the fact that Communism and other forms of socialism have been proven failures every time they’ve been tired, why would anyone that is rational want to continue down that path?

    Conclusion: progressives (liberals, democrats) are irrational.

    • GALT

      Very strange then that all those capitalists spent all that time buying government and spending millions more to get people elected to it?

      • Charlie Tall

        Well, duh!

        Of course capitalists buy government. For two reasons: First, capitalism is about investing capital where it will earn the greatest return. If a capitalist buys a politician, then he can get the politician to pass laws that favor the capitalist and thus earn him a greater return on his investment.

        The second reason is because all governments are for sale. Which is another reason why less government is better: less corruption.

        But if you knew what capitalism really was, Galt, then you would realize that government is not needed for capitalism to work. Capitalism, you see, is about free trade, free market. The operative word is free.

        Capitalism will work quite fine in the absence of government, but if there is government, capitalism adapts nicely, naturally, and automatically.

        Socialism is about coercion and raw force, and government is absolutely necessary if everyone in a society is going to be forced, to be coerced into doing certain things.

        Does this answer your question?

      • Dave67

        Charlie Tall like most right wingers deal in theory…. There is no such thing as the “free market” and there never has been such in thing in the industrialized/global economy…

        But that does not stop them from trying to convince the ignorant otherwise…

        Charlie you really should come and join reality…

    • Dave67

      Tell me of a country in the industrial and post industrial age that has a 100% Capitalist system with no gov interference or influence?

      Go ahead….

      • Charlie Tall

        There are none, idiot.

        I stated that capitalism “can function without government.”

        I did not state that there were any examples extant where that was the case.

        However, just because human society today is suffering from a disease, in this case government, does not mean that the disease is necessary, particularly not in a capitalist society.

        Socialism, on the other hand, requires some mechanism to force people to surrender the fruits of their labor for whatever the reason, and the only entity strong enough to do that is government.

      • Mike in PA

        Adam Smith the father of Capitalism did not believe in economic anarchy but said that in order to function properly some regulation of the Capilist System was necessary. Who then should be the arbiter of such rules? We hear a lot about the free hand of the market ( the foxes guarding the henhouse). Then there is the peoples Government which would be more fair and equitable. Unfortunately we dont have a peoples Govt anymore, we have a corparate run govt , we’re back to the fox and henhouse. Devilishly clever these immensly wealthy entities. The only path back to a peoples Govt, restoring fairness and equity to the Capitalist model is to eliminate money from politics and restore the original intent of the Constition, that is one man one vote.

      • Dave67

        S for Brains Charlie Tall…. There has never been a country that has existed that is truly 100% Capitalist and nor will there ever be unless you want to push for a one world Gov with one currency….

        Let me know how that works out for you.

        Socialism, Communism and Yes, Capitalism all fail in their pure form… That is due to the human condition… the best system thus far seam to be a combination of Socialism and Capitalism. The Netherlands, Sweden and Germany all have better living standards than we do in the US and they have much more socialism than we do. They did not let the banks run amok with deregulation like we did. But that is what is the product of US style conservatism that started with Reagan and his corporate cronies.

      • Charlie Tall

        Dave67,

        There has never been a country that ran on pure Communism or pure Fascism or pure anything, which proves nothing.

        My assertion is that capitalism can function without government, but socialism etc cannot.

        You are trying to disprove that assertion by stating that pure capitalism has never been tried.

        Let me restate for your benefit.

        Government is not necessary for the function of capitalism.

        Government is necessary for the function of socialism.

        I have explained why: the need to force people to do something that is contrary to their best interests.

        By the way, your argument about the Netherlands, Sweden, and Germany fails. Try the example of Switzerland, which is far richer than either of your examples. Switzerland, by the way, has virtually no social programs and is dedicated to the free market economy.

      • GALT

        Now Charlie Tall, all you have to do is read “Debt: The First 5000 Years”, which will tell you what really happened, who creates markets and for what purpose, and why money was needed and what it was used for………this is not an economics propaganda book, it is written by an anthropologist, so it is the evidence history has provided. Sadly, most of what you think you know is wrong.

    • Dead Right

      Hello Charlie:
      Excellent post.
      Logic is incomplete but over time we have learned a few things that work and things that do not. Ideology is a dysfunctional way of trying to explain the world as it is. The left owns this position and all of the illusory explanations that go with it. The right is closer with a few faults most of which can be forgiven or afforded. If there is one truth to find on any subject, there can be an almost infinite number of lies and misconceptions.

      • GALT

        there are no infinities……

  • uvuvuv

    that’s the southern poverty law center? i thought they had hdqtrs in some converted rooming house. yeesh, with those assets they could sell out and distribute the money and no more poverty. and why southern poverty? isn’t that problem like widely spread?

    • rkeefe57

      Yeah, there’s not much “poverty” at the law center, nor all that much “law” either.

      Morris Dees sends out his weekly fundraising letters filled with dire warnings that “hate” is everywhere and only an immediate cash donation will save the Center from disaster.

      The facts are that Dees, who made his first million back in 1964, pays himself $340,000 donor-dollars a year, and takes in another $150,000 to $200,000 a year in “honoraria” for his frequent speaking engagements.

      You’d think this tireless champion of truth and freedom, who has been a millionaire for nearly half a century, could afford to work pro bono at least one year in his career, but that’s not really the point of the exercise, is it?

      Mark Potok pockets more than $150,000 a year for his propaganda efforts, which are quite effective.

      The Center currently takes in more than $106,000 tax-free donor-dollars a day, every single day.

      That works out to more than $4,400 an hour.

      Suckers who scrape together a hundred dollar check for poor Morris Dees can take great satisfaction in the knowledge that they kept the lights on for just under 80 seconds.

      http://wp.me/pCLYZ-d3

      What would that same hundred mean to a local food pantry, homeless shelter or clinic?

      • eddie47d

        You need to check out what all lawyers make per hour. Are we all suckers because oil companies hire large teams of lawyers and pay them into the millions so we can enjoy higher gas prices. It all depends in how you look at it. The lawyers at SPLC do defend the poor against injustices brought down upon them and have since 1971. Sometimes SPLC take on some heavy hitters such as Richard Butler and gain big judgements against them or their groups. Butler ran the Aryan Nation compound in Idaho and proudly displayed the Swastika on their buildings. Not sure if you welcome the Nazi party or not but I would put them in the vermin department.

      • rkeefe57

        The Butler case is another example of the classic SPLC show trial. The SPLC sued Butler in a civil trial, winning a $6.3 million dollar settlement, which of course, Butler had no means of paying. At least the victims did get some real estate in that case, but it was nowhere near the amount the SPLC took in by exploiting the case in its fundraising campaigns.

        Morris Dees first used the show trial ploy in 1987 when he brought a civil suit against the United Klans of America for the wrongful death of Michael Donald. The court awarded Donald’s mother $7 million dollars but she only received a barn owned by the UKA which sold for $52,000

        Meanwhile, during the course of the trial, Morris Dees sent out hundreds of thousands of fundraising letters featuring a gruesome photo of Michael Donald’s bloated corpse, which brought the SPLC more than $9 million dollars in donations.

        Mrs. Donald never saw one thin dime of that money. Dees exploited Michael Donald’s murder for his own gain and not one single klansman went to jail because of the civil suit. All the Klan had to do was find another place to keep their stuff.

        Dees has repeated this scam on several occasions since with the same exact m.o.

        http://wp.me/pCLYZ-14

        If you believe that sending money to the SPLC somehow “fights hate” or even produces a good return on investment, then I urge you to give early and often.

        Having seen just how much money the SPLC already has, and what little use they make of it, I’ll spend my donor dollars locally, where I know they’ll do some actual good.

  • Brian

    “Two of the four legal jurisdictions authorized by the constitution” Can you expand on that please. Been reviewing my pocket copy of the constitution and I am not sure what you are referring to here. What exactly is missing from the constitution?

    • GALT

      See Article Three, and note the specific reference to “common law” in the Bill of Rights,
      or go to the links provided for UCC 1-207, or do your own search…….other items of interest in the big C, “direct and indirect taxes”……..and the biggie, the creation of the ten square mile capitol, known as the District of Columbia……………

  • Dave67

    Brian says:
    June 18, 2012 at 10:42 am
    So let’s see… mindless, random energy from the sun created the first living cell from inanimate material? Does that really seem reasonable to you? If that is the case, why do we not see that happening today? New forms of life should be springing up all around us.
    I submit that your acceptance of evolution as fact is as much a leap of faith as my belief in Divine Creation.
    Oh, and Dave. You are right. There is no 100% capitalistic country that I am aware of. And that is the problem the right is trying to “right!” The right would love nothing more than to simply get government out of the way. We consider it a necessary evil.
    ——————–

    Gov is only as good or as bad as we allow it to be.

    Gov should be acting as a neutral entity to guard against corp and union abuse but that is not what we have allowed to happen… We have Gov (ushered in this time by Reagan) that does Corp bidding. They are not regulating or enforcing properly because of the big money that is allowed to subvert the system.

    Gov created the internet…. Without the Gov, billion dollar companies would not exist today.
    NASA, the technology created from that Gov entity has led to how much innovation?
    Without the Gov, the interstate road system would not exist, as would the air and power grid.

    Liberals and Progressives understand Gov does have roles to play in making this country better and not something to be minimized just to get it out of the way.

    • Dead Right

      I have heard this argument from the left before…
      “Liberals and Progressives understand Gov does have roles to play in making this country better and not something to be minimized just to get it out of the way.”

      And yet it seems the government is now on a path to tell us what when and how to do everything and that opposing views need to be silenced for the good of the people.

      When conservatives say “out of the way,” we do not mean non-existant. Over-regulation and health control and oil control and business control are not healthy for a strong republic.
      Liberals say they do not want us telling them what to do in the bedroom. But they want to tell us what to do in the hospital room, when to die, how to live, where and when to spend money etc… That is why we are wanting less government.

      Agreed about the issues of large corporations. Less government means less interference by corporations. Fewer people to bribe. Liberals seem to think that more government is needed to combat bigger corporations. Less government is how you combat the “corpratists.” Statists use the argument of big business to usher in big government,
      like totalitarians use the presence of anarchists to argue for statism.

      • Dave67

        Dead Right,

        Do you and the rest of the right have special “reading into” glasses you use?

        I do not want big gov for the sake of big gov.

        I want big money out of the political process and for rules and regs to protect this country and not corp profits to be enforced.

        To have the Gov the way the right want it, is to slash regulation to business has a free hand to do what they wish. This economy collapsed not from too much regulation, but from too little regulation and too little enforcement at the behest of corp interests.

        You clearly do not know much about liberals by your post, just what what other conservatives tell you what liberals believe…Liberals want to tell you when die? Really? As a liberal, if you want to pull the plug on your own life, it is your right… Its the right wing religious kooks that fight such decisions and want to keep people on life support when the quality of life is gone. How to live? Your side clamors to have the 10 Commandments on public buildings as if without the commandments, their will be anarchy. How and When to spend money? Do you live in America? Do you watch TV? that statement is laughable.

        You can have an honest discussion about “how much” is too much in Gov but to say that smaller gov equals better combat vs Corps…I have yet to get a detail;ed explaination how less people to enforce regulations is a better solution.

      • Dead Right

        Hello Dave:

        Insulting and cajoling are not arguments.

        I was explaining our point of view using your assertion about big business.

        All of the the items in your post could just as easily be about a liberal and atheistic point of view. Obviously I was referring to obamacare. Atheistic views should have no more authority than the ten commandments. Fine. Liberal views are taught in schools. we have the ten commandments posted in a few hundred places around the us. It is the choice of people to read them. Liberalism is the new “it’s just so”. just like it was in all times of failure past. Try living by the ten commandments and we all would be better off. Start with the last one, do not covet, envy. Not saying you do, but what is so harmful here?

        I know liberals. My sister is one of the biggest, supporting everything on the left. We used to have rational discussions but she is now perfectly happy simply saying she “knows” and no longer wants to even have the discussion. “shut up”.

        Many of your assumptions demonstrate the lens you look at conservatives through. Granted. I also look at liberalism through mine. As stated before, what you believe colors how you perceive. So how do you know you are perceiving the truth? Or that what you believe even comes nearer to the truth than your local conservative? History is one way but it is often clouded by the writers. So we test ideas in america. Liberalism is failing fast and hard. But conservatism is not exactly winning as it is won on a person to person basis, not on who we elect. We can’t seem to elect ideas, only personalities.

        This comment, “This economy collapsed not from too much regulation, but from too little regulation and too little enforcement at the behest of corp interests.”, is completely opposite what conservatives believe. Why do you believe it? What makes you think more government will “control” business enough to make all things work out to the utopian vision, and not be merely bought out instead? Regulations are bought and paid for by big business to eliminate competition. History declares massive top down control equals failure. The sheer number of decisions made at lower levels of society cannot be made in mass by a few at the top nor their aparachnicks.

        Civil society works from the bottom up. Families to neighborhoods, to city to county to state to fed. Conservatism does not work from the top down which only causes the type of reaction you are concerned with. To much conservative “control”. So now conservatives are panicking because they have stayed out of politicks so long, the top-downers from the left are taking over and they expect “Romney” to push things back to the right by top down force. Bad idea. But now worse than liberal top-down force. But we cannot afford any more of obama spending.

        The left demand list:
        By expensive CCFL lamps. I use LED in my homes. But do not demand others do.

        Use toilets that have to flushed twice.

        Die in cars to small because of CAFE standards. ( I drive diesel Excursions.)

        Die at the hands of non-appointed aparachnicks under Kathleen Sebelius.

        Die as an unborn woman. Killing someone is the most egregious form of control.

        Eat less salt, fat, sugar (shown to be good for you)

        Steal money from others to pay for liberal experiments, social engineering through the tax code. Graduated tax is not “fair” it is from the marxist playbook.

        Put faith in government not God and be laughed at for doing so. Faith in government should be laughed at. It is what the founders understood as a failed idea. The challenge that the bible is written by men is no more informing than that modern big governments and utopian ideas are also from men.

        Pay for the fallacy of global warming. Follow Lord Monckton on that.

        Demand and enforce the UN to have natural resource rights over the US for past reparations.

        Dems have tried many times to silence conservative radio. Pelosi wants to no longer have the nastiness of elections. Just stay in power…
        Look, contrast is good in the arena of ideas. why should I demand that one side shut up? Especially if it shows a difference between ideas. Be careful of the sound of one hand clapping. Freedom of speech does not guarantee the speaker will be heard. No one has the right to be heard. Just to say what they want to whomever will listen without fear of being hit.

        And need I say anything about the endless regulations (60,000 plus) that shut down small business while keeping big bus and government in power.

        Liberals seem to want to kill what they cannot control. Life itself.

        Take away the right to use a gun for self defense. So guns are only in use by police?
        They have a poor rate of false killings compared to private gun ownership.

        While I know for a fact that I will not help you see things my way nor change your mind, this forum at least gives us room to share our ideas and expose what they are.

      • Dave67

        Dead Right,

        Liberals have not had any real power since the early 1970′s. In 1980′ the new corporatism was ushered by Reagan. We live in the right wing corporatist world now and the collapse of 2008 is the result of Reagan’s economic philosophy. But yet the right continue to blame Liberals for what they have largely created.

        But lets go through your list:

        The left demand list:
        “By expensive CCFL lamps. I use LED in my homes. But do not demand others do.”

        Where do liberals demands this?

        “Use toilets that have to flushed twice.”

        What kind of food do you eat? Maybe if you listen to Michelle Obama you would not need to flush as much

        “Die in cars to small because of CAFE standards. ( I drive diesel Excursions.)”

        You know that cars today are much safer and death occur less frequently right due to safety? I know the right feel entitled to waste as much of the world’s oil supply but we are living in a new world now

        “Die at the hands of non-appointed aparachnicks under Kathleen Sebelius.”

        What has she done? Bush 2 appointed 32 Czars… More than Obama but I guess that is different

        “Die as an unborn woman. Killing someone is the most egregious form of control.”

        How about addressing the social and economic reasons why women choose abortion as a means of birth control??? Nah… that requires thought, action and a change in the “me first mentality” this country embraces…

        “Eat less salt, fat, sugar (shown to be good for you)”

        The problem here is excess… We are fatter than the rest of the planent because of the way fast food has changed the food industry. We subsidize the stuff that makes the food that allows poor people to become fat and yet the right embraces those subsidies

        “Steal money from others to pay for liberal experiments, social engineering through the tax code. Graduated tax is not “fair” it is from the marxist playbook.”

        LOL… But its ok for wealthy and corp interests to buy policy that is bad for the country but good for their personal interests. We are paying 60 year low taxes while pay for right wing experiments like wars of choice.

        “Put faith in government not God and be laughed at for doing so. Faith in government should be laughed at. It is what the founders understood as a failed idea. The challenge that the bible is written by men is no more informing than that modern big governments and utopian ideas are also from men.”

        If you want god in Gov I can point to many historical instances where it goes horribly wrong. Why? Not everyone believes if the same religion or any religion at all. Christians can’t even agree on which version of the story to buy into. The bible has been reinterpreted many times as it has been re-written and all for the power to have over the masses. Gov works when people hold them accountable… when people abdicate that important duty we get the GOP and Democratic parties as they exist today.

        “Pay for the fallacy of global warming. Follow Lord Monckton on that.”

        It is not a fallacy… It is a fact that the earth has gone through warming cycles and coolling cycles throughout history. The difference today fro previous cycles is now we have farming on a grand scale and industry that puts variables into the equation that we are not sure of… Wouldn’t it be the conservative thing to do to conserve energy and look for clearer sources? Guess not…

        “Demand and enforce the UN to have natural resource rights over the US for past reparations.”

        That is nonsense… The left do not want any such thing….Do you just make this stuff up?

        “Dems have tried many times to silence conservative radio. Pelosi wants to no longer have the nastiness of elections. Just stay in power…
        Look, contrast is good in the arena of ideas. why should I demand that one side shut up? Especially if it shows a difference between ideas. Be careful of the sound of one hand clapping. Freedom of speech does not guarantee the speaker will be heard. No one has the right to be heard. Just to say what they want to whomever will listen without fear of being hit.”

        That is BS, we want loons like Rush, Hannidy, Santorum, Bachmann to keep on talking… Liberals looks so much better when Conservatives go and shoot their mouths off… Mitt wishes we could stay in Iraq and Afghanistan… Run on that….. Mitt wishes the Auto Industry would be allowed to go bankrupt…. run on that…. The Gov of VA signed into law a forced ultrasound for women looking to get an abortion…. Run on that and keep talking about those positions…

        “And need I say anything about the endless regulations (60,000 plus) that shut down small business while keeping big bus and government in power.”

        Tell me exactly which regulations she should end… Go ahead

        “Liberals seem to want to kill what they cannot control. Life itself.”

        More conservative BS

        “Take away the right to use a gun for self defense. So guns are only in use by police?
        They have a poor rate of false killings compared to private gun ownership.”

        BS, Most people on the left are fine with guns… we just need sensible gun control and a change of attitude in this country because most people view guns as toys and the first thing to be pulled when there is a disagreement.

        “While I know for a fact that I will not help you see things my way nor change your mind, this forum at least gives us room to share our ideas and expose what they are.”

        You are correct, your conservative propaganda and views do not change my mind… But I do now know how out there your opinions of liberals are.

      • Dead Right

        Dave67 says:
        June 18, 2012 at 1:57 pm
        Dead Right,

        Liberals have not had any real power since the early 1970′s. In 1980′ the new corporatism was ushered by Reagan. We live in the right wing corporatist world now and the collapse of 2008 is the result of Reagan’s economic philosophy. But yet the right continue to blame Liberals for what they have largely created.
        >The mess is the sub-prime home loans mostly ushered in by carter etc.
        This view of Reagan is prominent on the left. But still does not make a case for more government

        But lets go through your list:

        The left demand list:
        “By expensive CCFL lamps. I use LED in my homes. But do not demand others do.”

        Where do liberals demands this?
        >The bill to rid us of the cheap incandescent lamp over the next few years.

        “Use toilets that have to be flushed twice.”
        >I have both kinds of toilets. the water savers waste more water. This also was a bill from congress to demand low flow toilets.

        What kind of food do you eat? Maybe if you listen to Michelle Obama you would not need to flush as much

        “Die in cars to small because of CAFE standards. ( I drive diesel Excursions.)”

        You know that cars today are much safer and death occur less frequently right due to safety? I know the right feel entitled to waste as much of the world’s oil supply but we are living in a new world now.
        >No waste. we have more than enough for 200 years, just here in the us. The supply of oil renews itself. maybe not our speed of consumption. but you still did not disprove that cafe standards have in fact caused more death with smaller cars. Look it up.
        No we are living in the same world with new public perceptions created by the left. and the right.

        “Die at the hands of non-appointed aparachnicks under Kathleen Sebelius.”

        What has she done? Bush 2 appointed 32 Czars… More than Obama but I guess that is different
        > I refer you to the hundreds of places where obamacare says “as the health secretary shall decide.
        “Die as an unborn woman. Killing someone is the most egregious form of control.”

        How about addressing the social and economic reasons why women choose abortion as a means of birth control??? Nah… that requires thought, action and a change in the “me first mentality” this country embraces…
        >Nice deflection. How about the moral decay that causes both men and women to take off their clothes instead of taking some responsibility. That is where and when the choice so obviously is.

        “Eat less salt, fat, sugar (shown to be good for you)”

        The problem here is excess… We are fatter than the rest of the planent because of the way fast food has changed the food industry. We subsidize the stuff that makes the food that allows poor people to become fat and yet the right embraces those subsidies.
        >Not I. neither do I support corn/ethanol subsidies.
        The latest study shows the excess is less riskier than below what is required.

        “Steal money from others to pay for liberal experiments, social engineering through the tax code. Graduated tax is not “fair” it is from the marxist playbook.”

        LOL… But its ok for wealthy and corp interests to buy policy that is bad for the country but good for their personal interests. We are paying 60 year low taxes while pay for right wing experiments like wars of choice.
        >Agreed but corps do not pay taxes they raise prices. I am referring to individual taxes.
        It dawns on me you are against the big corps and try to control them. the outcome is the small businesses get the brunt of the tax punishment and are lumped in with the evil rich while employing 63% of the workforce.

        “Put faith in government not God and be laughed at for doing so. Faith in government should be laughed at. It is what the founders understood as a failed idea. The challenge that the bible is written by men is no more informing than that modern big governments and utopian ideas are also from men.”

        If you want god in Gov I can point to many historical instances where it goes horribly wrong. Why? Not everyone believes if the same religion or any religion at all. Christians can’t even agree on which version of the story to buy into. The bible has been reinterpreted many times as it has been re-written and all for the power to have over the masses. Gov works when people hold them accountable… when people abdicate that important duty we get the GOP and Democratic parties as they exist today.
        >Define accountable without a universal set of moral codes.
        I did not say I wanted God “in” government. that is your lens. I want moral principles just as you but your are a man made ever changing list as you accuse the bible of being.

        “Pay for the fallacy of global warming. Follow Lord Monckton on that.”

        It is not a fallacy… It is a fact that the earth has gone through warming cycles and coolling cycles throughout history. The difference today fro previous cycles is now we have farming on a grand scale and industry that puts variables into the equation that we are not sure of… Wouldn’t it be the conservative thing to do to conserve energy and look for clearer sources? Guess not…
        > Please explian the last ten years of cooling. how the “scientists” involved removed 1000+ higher elevation and northern temperature monitors from the computer models, how now that we have the code for those models any numbers entered equal global warming and the EA emails that have “scientists” talking about how to hide the cooling trned. Also explain how the hockey stick is nothing of the sort when thermal runaway is a known positive feedback system.

        “Demand and enforce the UN to have natural resource rights over the US for past reparations.”

        That is nonsense… The left do not want any such thing….Do you just make this stuff up?
        >No, I read about it on the web. Look it up.

        “Dems have tried many times to silence conservative radio. Pelosi wants to no longer have the nastiness of elections. Just stay in power…
        Look, contrast is good in the arena of ideas. why should I demand that one side shut up? Especially if it shows a difference between ideas. Be careful of the sound of one hand clapping. Freedom of speech does not guarantee the speaker will be heard. No one has the right to be heard. Just to say what they want to whomever will listen without fear of being hit.”

        That is BS, we want loons like Rush, Hannidy, Santorum, Bachmann to keep on talking… Liberals looks so much better when Conservatives go and shoot their mouths off… Mitt wishes we could stay in Iraq and Afghanistan… Run on that….. Mitt wishes the Auto Industry would be allowed to go bankrupt…. run on that…. The Gov of VA signed into law a forced ultrasound for women looking to get an abortion…. Run on that and keep talking about those positions…
        > BS is not an answer. Just because you have not read about it does not mean it is not a real concern. But on this we agree. keep all loons out and about. no censorship.

        “And need I say anything about the endless regulations (60,000 plus) that shut down small business while keeping big bus and government in power.”

        Tell me exactly which regulations she should end… Go ahead
        Small auto painters cannot have more than one lid off of a container of paint at a time.
        Lemonade stands fall under city zoning and restaurant laws. Demanding 99 weeks of unemployment which simply meant the state called up all their small businesses and demanded the UE rate go from $200/mo/employee to $600/Mo/Employee. Wow that really helps employers.

        “Liberals seem to want to kill what they cannot control. Life itself.”

        More conservative BS
        >Control your sex life and the choice is easy.
        It also turns out that abortion gives men rights over women’s bodies by demanding they get one. New law idea from a conservative. You make it you pay for it. That might keep a few more zippers up or at least use contraceptives.

        “Take away the right to use a gun for self defense. So guns are only in use by police?
        They have a poor rate of false killings compared to private gun ownership.”

        BS, Most people on the left are fine with guns… we just need sensible gun control and a change of attitude in this country because most people view guns as toys and the first thing to be pulled when there is a disagreement.
        >The sensible already exists. You probably are not exposed to the kind of attempts to subvert the right to keep and bear arms. I am. UN Small arms treaty is one such attempt going on right now.
        After the civil war blacks needed guns to protect them from folks that were not yet with the program.

        “While I know for a fact that I will not help you see things my way nor change your mind, this forum at least gives us room to share our ideas and expose what they are.”

        You are correct, your conservative propaganda and views do not change my mind… But I do now know how out there your opinions of liberals are.

        >We can both use labels like “propaganda” but neither of have a choice in how it will all turn out. actions have consequences. My view of liberals is irrelevant. My view of concepts and ideas that have failed or worked in the past, both left and right, is.

      • Dave67

        Dead Right,

        Moral principals when money is what we value most? LOL… Jesus Christ would never approve of capitalism because its very nature.

        You want morality? There is the system where you have no personal possessions, no strong central Gov, No class system… in theory, you negate jealousy, greed two major reasons why countries go to war…. Jesus would approve wholeheartedly…Its called Communism….Trouble is, Communism has nothing to cure laziness and a true cure for a class based society. It fails…

        The HC law is the product of big business again trumping whats best for people… The private sector has no business in the insurance industry. We should reform the food industry, put prevention as the #1 goal in HC and leave the medical decisions up to the individual and the doctor with the Gov paying for a large portion of the cost and the company you work for out of the HC business.

        UN Small arms treaty??? Please tell me of any UN rule that has trumped US law? It hasn’t and it won’t… the only thing Obama has done on the subject of guns is make it ok to carry guns on public lands… Contrary to LaPierre’s rants to the contrary.

        We have enough oil in the face of China and India’s economies exploding? Sorry… Like it or not oil is FINITE not Infinite…We should be conserving…. we have been on this entitlement kick ever since WW2 and the discovery of oil in the middle east. The world’s oil is not ours for the taking. We are now dealing with that reality of the global oil market where countries trade in Euro and the Dollar and there are as big or bigger economic players getting bigger and bigger pieces of the world’s oil.

        As far a censorship goes… Conservatives in this country have a long and distinguished history of book burning and censorship but thankfully you are not one of those people. Most on the left want ideas to be out in the open. Yes the left do have their right-wing “like” militant left Berkley types that do not see their own hypocracy when it comes to their hyper-PC stances but most are not that way. I am not that way. I believe in using direct language Good, Bad and Indifferent.

        The reality is… Conservatives and Corporatists in this country have been the dominant force for the past 30 years… Liberals want stronger Unions to be a counter balance against Corporations on main street and on K street, (not happening) Liberals want big money out of the political process to get better grades of public servants (not happening). Liberals do not want to go to war unless attacked first (3T wasted in Iraq thanks to conservatives)

        We are happily giving control of this country over to boardrooms of the banks, big oil etc and the right are unwitting accomplices and active paticipants in this movement.

      • Dead Right

        A number of your presuppositions may not be true. but taken as they are…
        The unions sure showed us how it is done with GM.
        Actually your belief about capitalism may be misguided. It has created the most wealth for the most by primarily having the right to property. Self interest is not the same thing as selfish. Knowing I can use what is “mine” to make “more” is a good thing. Again I think the false focus on big business brings this argument on. The founders actually did not expect these huge multi-national corps. I agree about them being trouble just as the foreign banksters in our pool. But unions are to pathetic and thugish to really accomplish change.
        Now that real wealth has been created, it is easier to demand it from others.

        Any system would work if men’s hearts were pure. Capitalism is the best so far in that it keeps most of us entrepreneurs honest as we expand the whole pie through our self interest. Jesus would approve as it is the most natural and closest to the ten commandments and the laws set forth for Israel. To each his own and with production, charity from one’s own stash. Not another’s. That is graft.
        From the new testament:
        Let him who steals, steal no longer. But rather let him work with his own hands that he may have something to give to him who has need.
        I believe it is humans that need saving. Save souls and the rest is easy. But of course not everyone will agree on what that means.

        Oil is a great resource and there can be limits to it. Innovation has shown we can do better. I am for nuclear power. I happen to love electric cars but we need to get the infrastructure to make it work. Also please note that individual transportation is an affront to despots everywhere. So I am highly suspicious of eliminating it for the good of the people. In my efforts, I have gotten 20MPG from the excursions and I am shooting for 25MPG. I still have two expensive modifications to go on to each. Diesel is far more efficient than gas for MPG. But size matters to me and mine. My wife was rear ended by a three time licence-looser while in a toyota. My dad at full 55MPH. I am sorry but people here are lousy drivers because of regulation. Not enough of it! In Germany to get a drivers license is not as easy as sending in three box tops like we do here….So maybe a small point of agreement?
        Every creature is given it’s very short life on the earth to survive and reproduce at it’s best. Fuel is a stepping stone to the next fuel. Are you familiar with liquifying natural gas to pour into regular cars and trucks?

        I do not believe as you that we “take” oil and other resources. We buy it and give back in droves. But lets say you are correct.
        We practically feed the world and the return to the world on investment is huge. We are the most productive with what we use. The least polluting. The most giving out of our own personal stashes and used to believe in the “just war theory”. Maybe Not so now on that last one.

        I do not believe in “being attacked first”. What if I am wiped out before I can respond?
        I have my own issues with these wars. But I refuse to be a sitting duck as I feel I am now with our troops spread abroad. Islam is a real world threat and has had to be wiped out twice before as they were on the edge of complete tyranny, twice before. It will have to wiped out again. Not my first choice, but history tells me so.

        From your post:
        The HC law is the product of big business again trumping whats best for people… The private sector has no business in the insurance industry. We should reform the food industry, put prevention as the #1 goal in HC and leave the medical decisions up to the individual and the doctor with the Gov paying for a large portion of the cost and the company you work for out of the HC business.
        >Government does not “pay” for anything. It takes it from you first.
        Three simple things:
        TORT reform
        Interstate sales of health insurance
        Audit the FDA and allow people to try whatever they wish to be cured. I bet in the FDA you will find the corporate corruption you are looking for.
        In every other industry technology cuts cost but healthcare. Government interference.
        I have seen it first hand. I consult for the industry on occasion.

        It turns out that studies in prevention show the costs increase rather than decrease.
        Also smoking kills more people faster younger rather than going through ten years in geriatric treatments in old age. I AM NOT FOR THIS. I am just pointing out something I rarely see reported. The smokers are actually reducing health care costs overall by dying young and fast. The standard argument that they cost more is simply not true.
        I pity them the addiction. I am not for outlawing it because I have also seen it as relief for folks under high duress like in the military.

        From your post:
        The reality is… Conservatives and Corporatists in this country have been the dominant force for the past 30 years… Liberals want stronger Unions to be a counter balance against Corporations on main street and on K street, (not happening) Liberals want big money out of the political process to get better grades of public servants (not happening). Liberals do not want to go to war unless attacked first (3T wasted in Iraq thanks to conservatives)
        >Really? Basically the main stream media has been defending the democrats for the last 50 years. George Sorros ring a bell? While I can see some of the corpratist corruption you worry about. I also see an administration spending taxpayer money on the solyndras of the country only to fail. Both sides of the isle are in the pockets of the banksters and corpratists. One difference though. With corps I can choose to not buy their stuff as I boycot Walmart, Target, Home Depot etc. With the federal government I cannot choose to not buy their stuff. Shoved down my throat. I and many small businesses like me are basically falling away under the constant barage of more rules and fees and agencies to kiss up to. All you will be left with is the big corpratists. And when we run out of the fake fiat currency to buy their stuff?….. And when the government checks stop rolling in?…..

        Another area of agreement might be that welfare from the government in any form corporate or otherwise is a way to fail and is motivated by both corporate interests and statists. “no one spends like the poor” comes to mind for the corpratists. Buynig votes comes to mind for the statists.
        The founders never wanted any form of federal welfare. Welfare is a job for locals. whether they agree on a local charity or a local government fund. The friction at the federal level is reducing the value others create. And teaches that sloth is OK.
        Also the truly needy is no more than 10 percent in a healthy economy. The rest get demotivated on federal handouts with very few strings attached. Unlike the strings on those like me that provide it at gunpoint. I am not for any of these subsidies or special rules.

      • GALT

        yo, dead wrong, why don’t you take a break and watch a movie………my choice for you is “The Molly Maguires” very strong cast, good acting and a “true story”…….or you could read the book…..nah never mind, watch the movie…….then tell ME, what you think about it.

  • Jeremy Leochner

    For the sake of the argument I will comment on those points in the platform.

    1: I am fairly certain presidential candidates are already required to prove their citizenship. Otherwise they would not be president.

    2: Global warming is not a claim and is not a scare tactic.

    3: The U.N is not trying to impose political control of the United States nor could they even if they wanted to.

    4: I have no issue with the federal reserve being amended but eliminated I think is too much.

    5: We are in no danger of a world government,

    6: Apart from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac all those Departments are vital to our country.

    7: The federal income tax is a necessary evil in order to pay for our countries defense, Infrastructure and other essential services.

    8: Stand your ground is a policy I disagree with in regard to the law in florida and if such a law is proposed I would oppose it.

    9: I think parents should have a choice depending on the particular immunization.

    10: Multiculturalism is an important thing to teach children.

    11: Evolution should be taught as a theory. However creationism is a theological theory to be taught in church, not school.

    12: An organization that oversees job safety is important and if in need of change should be changed not gotten rid of.

    13: People do do not smoke have a right to not have their lungs contaminated by smoke. Smoking bans I feel are reasonable and depending on where and when a person can smoke I believe a compromise between the liberties of smokers and non smokers.

    14: Hate crimes are a serious issue and laws against them should not be repealed.

    15: Shariah law is never going to be imposed on the United States and no one is suggesting it should. There is no need for a law against it.

    16: A fence along the border will do little to no good.

    17: I oppose abortion but feel there are some instances where it is excusable.

    18: Minimum wage is a vital gift to the American worker. Getting rid of it would seriously hurt those in the market of unskilled labor.

    I believe in numerous voices and dissent. Its important to have arguments from everyone. As I believe what I believe I support or oppose policy proposals based on my views. I do not really like labels and I do not wish to label something as left or right. In regards to this platform if indeed it is what the SPLC says it is then I believe it leans towards more extremism. I believe some of its proposals are unreasonable and unnecessary. Extremism whether under the label of left or right, liberal or conservative, either way it is still extremism. Is it extremist to say anyone who believes what this platform says is crazy-absolutely. Is it extremist to paint liberals in a general brush of labels like socialist, marxist and totalitarian-I believe so. Is it extremist to do the same for conservatives-absolutely. Extremism is the enemy not left or right. I believe the SPLC like everyone makes mistakes and is at times hypocritical but I believe the core of the organization is good. Its mission and its message are good ones. Perhaps changes are needed. However I do not believe the organization itself is bad.

    • Charlie Tall

      1: I am fairly certain presidential candidates are already required to prove their citizenship. Otherwise they would not be president.

      You are wrong.

      2: Global warming is not a claim and is not a scare tactic.

      Global warming and man-made global warming (a.k.a. anthropomorphic global warming or AGW) are two different things. Wiki says, “The end of the last glacial period was about 12,500 years ago, while the end of the last ice age may not yet have come: little evidence points to a stop of the glacial-interglacial cycle of the last million years.”

      So global warming is natural and has been in progress for a few thousand years BEFORE man started driving, smelting steel, or burning coal. However, man-made global warming is something the “warmers” tell us has been caused by society in the last century or so. They also tell us that they should be allowed to take our wealth and spend it as they see fit to correct the condition they invented.

      AGW is the scare tactic, not global warming per se.

      3: The U.N is not trying to impose political control of the United States nor could they even if they wanted to.

      Try reading the Constitution. You know? The part about treaties which states in part, “all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land…”

      I presume you understand what this could signify if the US ratified the wrong UN treaty?

      4: I have no issue with the federal reserve being amended but eliminated I think is too much.

      Why? The Fed is an organization of private banks. It is not part of the government,yet it exercises governmental powers. Either bring it totally under the control of the government or abolish it.

      5: We are in no danger of a world government,

      The North American Union is not a world government. See European Union. And the movement towards the consolidation of Mexico, the US, and Canada is very, very real.

      6: Apart from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac all those Departments are vital to our country.

      Really? You are saying that failure is vital to our country. Do you really believe that?

      7: The federal income tax is a necessary evil in order to pay for our countries [sic] defense, Infrastructure and other essential services.

      So how did the country get by prior to the ratification of the 16th Amendment in 1913?

      If the federal government would only stick to the powers given it by the Constitution, it would not need an income tax. Indeed, it couldn’t spend the money it got through other sources of income such as duties and tariffs.

      8: Stand your ground is a policy I disagree with in regard to the law in florida and if such a law is proposed I would oppose it.

      That’s only because you do not understand it.

      9: I think parents should have a choice depending on the particular immunization.

      Correct. If immunization is so damned good, why should kids that have been immunized fear the presence of those who haven’t?

      10: Multiculturalism is an important thing to teach children.

      Why? Diversity is a curse. Witness Switzerland, Japan, and all of Scandinavia versus the US and the former USSR. Diversity can and often does result in genocide, and genocide is always the province of government.

      11: Evolution should be taught as a theory. However creationism is a theological theory to be taught in church, not school.

      Your opinion? They are both theories, equally valid, so why limit one to a particular venue? If you are really interested in fairness, teach both theories and let the chips fall where they may.

      12: An organization that oversees job safety is important and if in need of change should be changed not gotten rid of.

      This organization need not be governmental.

      13: People do do not smoke have a right to not have their lungs contaminated by smoke. Smoking bans I feel are reasonable and depending on where and when a person can smoke I believe a compromise between the liberties of smokers and non smokers.

      The free market can do this without giving more power to the government.

      If I want to go to a bar and smoke a cigarette with my beer, who’s to say I can’t? You?

      If you don’t want to inhale cigarette smoke, then go to a bar where smoking is not permitted.

      14: Hate crimes are a serious issue and laws against them should not be repealed.

      Hate crimes are redundant. They are already illegal.

      15: Shariah law is never going to be imposed on the United States and no one is suggesting it should. There is no need for a law against it.

      Yeah, right. It will never happen, so why worry about it? Duh!

      16: A fence along the border will do little to no good.

      You think? One fence I could mention worked pretty damned good in Berlin.

      17: I oppose abortion but feel there are some instances where it is excusable.

      18: Minimum wage is a vital gift to the American worker. Getting rid of it would seriously hurt those in the market of unskilled labor.

      Right. A gift. A gift that you and I are forced to pay for. A gift that causes significant loss of jobs. A gift that gives the government more power to interfere with the economy.

      • Jeremy Leochner

        1: President Obama was born in this country. There is no concern for someone who is not a citizen becoming president.

        2: Global warming is certainly cause by nature itself. However mankind does seriously
        contribute. The desire of global warming activists is to stop pollution, not take money.

        3: Again though. The basis of recognition of any treaty is on the authority of the United States, The United States would never sign any treaty that surrenders its authority. Our country cannot be taken from without.

        4: We should put it under government control and regulate it. But elimination is still too extreme in my opinion.

        5: Do not wish to get to into the word spiral but. My comment was in reference to the SPLC’s comment on supposed opposition to the American Union. It appeared people opposed the American Union because they thought it was setting the stage for a one world government. I was simply saying I disagree with that idea.

        6:Perhaps the heads of those departments have made mistakes. But I would say every department other then fannie and freddi are useful. From Education to Transportation ever industry and service covered under those departments would suffer without government regulation and funding. I do not believe they have failed.

        7: Actually the income tax was started by Abraham Lincoln during the Civil War. If an alternative to the income tax could be put forth I would listen. All I care about is making sure essential services and entitlement programs are maintained.

        8: The best I understand of the Florida stand your ground law is that under it Mr. Zimmerman was allowed to leave basically scott free simply by saying that he acted in self defense. I do not believe claiming self defense should be enough to get some one off the hook.

        9: The fear is for those not immunized. We do not want children getting sick just because their parents did not have the time to take them in to get immunized. A child who is has no cause to ear.

        10: Diversity has never caused genocide. Intolerance of diversity is what has lead to genocide in my opinion. Multiculturalism is what made our country strong and great. People of all cultures, ethnicities and religions are welcome. Diversity creates many solutions instead of few. At the very least Multiculturalism is about knowledge. Knowledge of other people and their culture is better then ignorance.

        11: The problem is if we teach creationism the only way to honor our religious freedom and uphold the idea of “fairness” is to teach the creation theories of every major religion. That includes everything from hinduism to buddism to shintoism. One could then get into the argument we should even teach the church of scientologys theory on creation. Public school is a place for teaching theories based on scientific observation and analysis. I feel theologically based theories are best left in a theological environment. I believe that whether or not you believe in evolution I believe it can be tested and observed. I believe creationism is not something that can be studied and examined using the scientific method. As such I cannot support it being taught in school.

        12: I agree.

        13: Why should I be forced to change where I go based on my not wanting to inhale smoke. I believe there should be smoking areas in bars and I would be willing to discuss depending on the proposed location. I believe it is less of a burden to require a smoker to not smoke then a non smoker to inhale smoke or go somewhere else. One involves a smoker not being able to indulge their pleasure that dosent effect just them. The other involves someone else being effected and being forced to make a choice based on the effect.

        14: Perhaps. But motive plays a factor in the seriousness of the crime and necessary punishment. A person who kills out of self defense is in a slightly different boat then someone who kills because they hate a persons skin color or religion.

        15: There is no need to worry about. America would never allow any religiously based law to be imposed. It would violate the first amendment. And no one is proposing such a thing except for the more devout muslims. Though personally I see the desire to impose sharia law as no different then the desire to impose the ten commandments. But in either case few if any are proposing either and neither would ever be excepted by the American people.

        16: Yes but that was very costly and only encompassed a city. Not a border between two countries.

        17: A workers basic wage is something the companies pay. A worker has a right to a decent wage. A wage an employer can never pay below. Without a minimum wage employers could give their employees the wage they wished to give them even if the wage was not sufficient for a decent livelihood. A worker should not have to change jobs because the wage is too low. A minimum wage gives the worker a safety net.

    • GALT

      Even simpler, the solution to a corrupted government, is to end the corruption in government, not to end the government………all the latter accomplishes, is to make it cheaper for those who had to corrupt in the first place…..now they can just do what they were doing before…..completely with out risk or cost………that the “victims” are cheering for those who have victimized them…..priceless!!!!!!

      • Charlie Tall

        Brilliant! Absolutely brilliant!

        The solution to evil is to end sin!

        Galt, are you familiar with the word reality?

      • GALT

        HHHHMMMMMM corruption and government is the same as evil and sin……..

        Charlie……are you familiar with reality? because THAT was absolute stupidity!!!!!!!

      • Jeremy Leochner

        I would say corruption is the real problem. There is little good in reducing the size of government when corruption can still take place. The focus should be on reform and cleaning up government. Not necessarily reducing government.

      • Dave67

        Wow… end corruption in Gov… what a novel idea….But that would take effort, brain power and holding people accountable…. America is too busy… Isn’t “America’s Got Talent” on tonight? That is where the priorities lie in this country.

        The Gov is Evil according to the right…. So if you vote… you are voting for evil. So do we just shoot anyone who dares want to get into politics and change the system? The right knows they are evil… wouldn’t that make sense in right wing world?

      • Charlie Tall

        To both GALT and Dave69

        What neither you nor Dave69 understand (or, more likely, you are pretending to misunderstand, which is another typically liberal ploy) is that both corruption and sin are HUMAN conditions.

        Government is a human institution.

        Evil is a human concept.

        So long as you have government you will have corruption because you have humans.

        (Hamilton recognized this and considered ways to utilize corruption for the general good. His ideas in that area were flawed.)

        Do you need to have that explained to you? Are you foolish enough to think you can change human nature?

        Human nature is also the core weakness of all flavors of socialism because human nature, being what it is, will lead Everyman to seek what is best for himself and oppose that which reduces his welfare. Thus it is natural for all humans to resist socialism in deed while supporting it in word.

        Do I need to explain enlightened self-interest to you at this point?

        Indeed, the Founding Fathers realized and institutionalized this fact of human nature when they included the “pursuit of happiness” along with “life” and “liberty” as the three unalienable rights enumerated in the second paragraph of the Declaration of Independence.

        Dave69 stated, “The Gov is Evil according to the right…”

        Thomas Paine wrote, “Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.”

        Do you disagree with Paine? Please, explain why, if you can.

        Personally, I believe that anyone who thinks government is not evil is a damned fool and a dangerous one.

      • GALT

        All that is very strange charlie…….but why are you repeating or asking what it is, that is being said……..what I said was…….the solution is not ending government, but the corruption in government………so do you believe Thomas Paine, or Washington, or anyone else that has said this?

        So the choice is: you either end the corruption or you end government…….and if the design was in anticipation of the FACT of corruption……..here Madison’s solution failed also….Theory of Faction…..so what went wrong……?

        Jefferson did not imagine the Constitution would survive for more than twenty years, simply because of the generational changes…..and industry was also producing accelleration…….but it has lasted for 230 years……and in that time, it has been completely altered from it’s claimed original intent……….

        So this becomes a complex problem which requires a more elevated level of directed dialog……….so, do you believe that is what is taking place here or anywhere else?

        What part of the solution do you claim to represent?

      • Charlie Tall

        GALT,

        Your strawman choices are incomplete and impossible.

        Indeed, you missed the most obvious choice which Paine implied and I stated: minimize government thus minimizing corruption.

        For your benefit:

        Corollary A: The less government the better.

      • Charlie Tall

        GALT wrote: “Jefferson did not imagine the Constitution would survive for more than twenty years, simply because of the generational changes.”

        Citations?

    • Doug

      Hey Jeremy you don’t think stand your ground laws are good. Tell you what let me know where you live and I will come over and grab you by your ears and slam your head into the cement and you just go with the flow sound good?????

      • Karolyn

        A gun makes t hings t oo one-sided. All that’s needed is self-defense training.

      • Jeremy Leochner

        Doug people have the right to self defense. I just dont believe it should be legal for people to simply say “yes I killed him but it was in self defense” and then have the officer say “okay your free to go”. I am concerned someone might try and abuse such a privilege by lying about acting in self defense.

      • macgyver1948

        There are people who have gone overboard with their guns. The case in Florida where a neighborhood watch guy shot and killed a teenage boy, for example. There are many people who would not commit murder if they felt they would be caught and punished for it. With a law as these those border-line people would use the law to murder.

        With the case in Florida we do not know who started the fight, who grabbed who first or who through the first punch. If the first whatever was thrown by the neighborhood watch guy the kid had the right to defend himself. In doing so the guy with the gun might feel the kid has no right to defend himself so “I will shoot him dead” because the law allows me to. Where will this crap end? Innocent people who are attacked can die because the law says the attacker can kill the victim and say “I was afraid and they have no right to self defense”. Don’t start the deed if you haven’t the balls to get beaten up and/or arrested.

        Only those without morals and ethics need laws like these.

      • Dave67

        Hey Doug,

        before you do that, Can Jeremy call the police on you because of the way you look even though you did nothing to warrant the call? Can he also follow you while he is on the phone with the police and provoke you?

        That would be great… Then you can kick Jeremy’s butt and then Jeremy can pull the gun because he is angry and embarrassed that one of “them” which you are… is beating him up.

    • ROGER D

      I don’t go to titty bars because I don’t want titties in my face.If you don’t want smoke in your lungs go to non smoking bars.Seems to me like common sense to me.

      • Jeremy Leochner

        Perhaps.But by the same logic why not just stop smoking. The problem is people don’t go to a titty bar to drink, they do it to look at titties. People who go to bars who do not smoke just want to drink or be with friends. They should not have to leave just because someone feels the need to smoke. The problem with smoking is it dosen’t just affect the person smoking. It affects anyone near by.

      • GALT

        Broots: Smoking kills!………. Ms Parker: But not reliably.

      • ROGER D

        Maybe there should be( smoking and drinking bars) and (drinking with friends bars) sort of like smoking and nonsmoking.

  • rendarsmith

    The SPLC is a joke! They label A Voice for Men a hate group because it sticks up for men’s issues and opposes the feminists (*GASP* OH MY!!!). But they don’t label Radfem Hub (one of the greatest hategroups of all time) a hate group. Why? $$$$ Radfem Hub, who has been exposed for calling little boys “future rapists” and talking about castrating them, throwing them out windows, and wiping out half the population (the Y chromosome half of course), makes donations to the SPLC so they are safe. As guess as long as you donate money to the SPLC you can’t be a hate group, even if you preach hate about certain groups.

  • http://gravatar.com/macgyver1948 macgyver1948

    Deerinwater and Galt. You guys might be preaching to a programmed choir who can’t hear what comes from the other side. You both say so much and I couldn’t find fault. Maybe we should eliminate minimum wage for only the right and see how they like it when they become homeless because they can’t put together enough money to “pay” to live indoors. Maybe we should build separate company buildings where only the right works in tobacco smoke filled rooms and they are solely responsible for the health problems they caused themselves. I might agree that people have the right to poison themselves but they very much do not have the right to poison others. Let’s eliminate job safety for the right as well since all these things should be left to the Corporation/employer’s choice.

    Let’s also eliminate all environmental protections because the enforcing of them would/has/does raise the expenses of the Corporations. The Earth, air-land-water-food-sources, should not be a concern of the Corporations. Only what makes more money and lowers corporate expenses is what corporations should be concerned with. Keeping as much money at the top is the thing. That is why Trickle-Down will not work.

    “Repeal Hate Crimes?” Why when there are states with ‘Shoot first and let God sort it out later’ laws? If states such as Florida have these laws people who would not shoot under same circumstances, because they do not want to go to jail, can now shoot and kill because of these laws. Hate can be smiled upon and sanctioned.

    “Only teach evolution as a theory, along with creationism.?” Yeah, if you cannot prove it then at best it is only theory. Never mind that each of those theories should be equally supported by law and good taste. It should work equally for both. Oh wait, equality, along with fairness, is a bad word so I am sorry for using it. The word and idea of, and philosophy of, “compassion for others” seems to work only for many who want it for themselves as well. Isn’t that Right?

    No one should have the right to force their beliefs or views on others and neither should there be any degree of punishment for non-compliance of said briefs. That idiocy has been tried in this country and it is found through human history. It is totally UN-American, isn’t that also Right? “Freedom Of Religion” is so necessary and “Separation Of Church And State” needs to be added to the Constitution. For those who claim “only their beliefs are right” need to be reminded of what country they are in.

    Man, the Koch-like would just love all these eliminations and the GOP is doing its very best to see that Corporations and the very wealthy get it all. Go Romney with your “Corporations Are People Too” stuff. If you know American History I bet you would “figure” the Founding Fathers are rolling over in their graves with anger when Romney said that. The Founders wanted “Separation Of Corporation and State” because they feared corporations and the influence their huge money has on Government. Romney will be the “Bain” businessman he claims we need in the Oval Office. We will be in so much trouble if we aren’t the huge “investors” Romney will solely support if, God forbid, he wins this election.

    Have a nice day, :-))).

    • GALT

      Actually, you might enjoy the austrian school, where free market capitalism begins if you IMAGINE yourself stranded on a desert island…….and you have to catch fish with your bare hands and they are slippery so it takes you 6 hours to catch a fish…. and twelve hours to catch two fish……..( by the way you can’t ask any questions here ) so you are putting in a 12 hour day to catch two fish……and this seems a bit excessive, so you think to yourself……self, I could catch more fish if I had a net……..( no, you still can’t ask any questions ) but of course, you need time to make the net, so in order to do this you set aside a fish ( and no you can’t ask why you spending 12 hours to catch two fish when you only really needed one….must be that hard work ethic……which kinda misses the point of the desert isle thing…but I digress. ) and after doing this, in however many days it takes, you have now created a “capital good” and can catch 50 fish a day, which you can’t use
      and if you keep doing it, you will kill off all the fish……….opps I digressed again, and now you get to imagine that more people become stranded with you, and you get division of
      labor where everybody does what they are good at ( they have all been to desert island stranded school so they already know…..I clearly don’t because I only needed one fish
      and a spear would work better…….just me of course, …..so we have capital goods and division of labor….but no money or wealth, and no women, because talk about your capitals goods……..stiil you have to admit……imagining capitalism can be fun…..even though it has no connection to reality……surf’s up………..

      • Dead Right

        Capitalism is everywhere in nature. A tree produces more than it consumes. That is what good productive people with private property rights do. Don’t you?
        Communism is the unnatural force of envy from small men who think they know better and merely want control of other’s means of production.

      • macgyver1948

        Galt….. If I see ‘there are plenty of fish in the sea’ (I heard that somewhere) and all I need is 1 fish today then I too would fish for only one. I am way to lazy to do more work than is necessary for just me.

        As for Capitalism as it relates to fish and fishing. That can be so nice if all the control wasn’t directly related to those at the top who own all the fish. Maybe if they would share some of that fish, enough for those who work for them to feed fish better to their families, it would trickle down for each of us to have enough of our individual one fish, then it would be nicer and more wouldn’t be so bad. I’m not opposed to having more fish, just opposed to working harder than I should to get it all for the same amount of fish..

        But if we allow all the fish to be controlled by a few, realistically speaking that is, and for that few to get all the breaks, (more fish line, lower prices for the fishing, breaks in other ways from the fish controllers – etc), to use their breaks and favors as savings instead of intensives to help others there will be less fish for the many. Oh wait, that is how it has worked in the ‘ol fish bush. They have more than they need and they aren’t willing to share fairly with those that do the actual fishing for them. They save instead, as much fish as they can, for themselves so capitalism begins to dwindle for the many fishermen and the owners of the fishery do not care as they prosper.

        That is why I said “I am way to lazy to do more work than is necessary for just me”. If I had more fish and I had fisher people fishing for me then I would help Capitalism by sharing more of what I had. So much more of us would prosper. Then the fisher people, the ones who do the actual fishing, who had more, because of my sharing, could buy more fish from the fish controllers. My lazy ass would work a bit harder if I notice it is not all about me. Fish that trickles up will help make Capitalism so much better than fish that isn’t allowed, or wanted, to trickle down.

        Thanks for your analogy on fishing Galt. Actually I do not want to “IMAGINE yourself stranded on a desert island…….” fishing with my bare hands or with a spear, but I would prefer a spear too if those are my choices. That was fun, :-)))…

      • GALT

        really dead wrong…..how can you keep screwing up such simple stuff…….tree’s work on the same principle you do…….they survive to reproduce…..period. and they GROW, which means they consume more than they produce…….thanks to the laws of thermodynamics….. that says all profit comes from the sun………..please take some time and think…….I don’t know what you are trying to PROVE….but it ain’t working.

      • Dead Right

        Galt:
        Trees take food in a less useful form for mammals and energy then produce a higher form of food in huge volumes. Much more than is required for mere reproduction.
        In my business I have created 10 million dollars of wealth for others over 10 years. I only keep about 500,000 over those same years. Fairly typical for a small company. About 500,000 went to taxes over that time as well. I also endured patent piracy that removed about 1 million from the pie.
        I think perhaps you are concerned with crony capitalism as in big multi-natioanl corps when combined with government aid. That is not free market capitalism. I do not operate in that arena. And seek its abolition.

      • GALT

        Well, less useful forms of……….would appear to be a relative evaluation, as any dung beetle might point out……..and none of this, would be possible without the energy input of the sun………….combined with the proper mix of ingredients…….none of this would happen. This should be fairly obvious when one looks at the other planets and moons in the solar system, which also receive energy, but where nothing much is going on.

        It took, 4 billion years to get from amino acids, to RNA to the DNA of the single cell, to the complexity of the multi-celled life form, and then from this point all manner of complexity,
        and co-evolution, which in the case of virus’, actually went in the other direction, so much so, that when they are not active, they appear lifeless…….

        All of this, is still energy dependent and without it nothing is possible…….but it raises a very interesting point, regarding your claim to have “created” wealth……..for the rest of this system, the natural one…..it proceeds forward in a balanced exchange, of energy consumption, storage, conversion and use……..the more complex the life form, the greater the energy requirement……..but the creation of wealth, or it’s storage is not a concept that works…….for regardless of how you attempt to account for things, when you deal with things from an energy standpoint……..wealth is an elusive concept. Take the pyramids,
        which clearly required the expenditure of great resources and energy, yet in the end
        was wealth created? The energy used is gone and what exists in it’s place is……a bunch of rock, in a different form…….most of nature would be unimpressed, and even for man after the initial o…wow, golly gee, thats a big pile of rocks, the end result is similar.

        But you are right, at it’s base the concept of “wealth” is questionable at best, and in terms of “value” that is completely relative…….when you get to the absurd level of “money” as wealth, and the idiocy of money making money, that is insanity……..and in terms of energy, all you have done is created a debt……..in the form of damage, which may not be
        repairable…….by upsetting the equilibrium, in the belief that what you transformed, was creating wealth………and this a delusion which can end rather abruptly, because it requires everyone to buy into it……..in which case, those that control the delusion, reap the benefit…..others pay the debt……..so we return to capitalism, and you are stranded
        on a desert isle………………ultimately, it’s about the fish.

      • Dead Right

        Growth of the system we have now is reliant on a false and foreign debt to foreign banksters etc. Creating productivity and excess is how I view smaller frame capitalism.
        I am for getting rid of the federal reserve, full audit and hangings all around. Capitalism does not need to start from a debt perspective as it is now. having some assurance of private property rights allows me to build on that foundation. So while differing food orders are available at different levels as stated above, value for wanted and needed items fluctuates and allows for growth.
        One of my favorite disparities: for a need there is great price pressure as in I hate the thought of shelling out $300 bucks for a replacement water heater. But on the other hand some duffus paid $17,000 over retail to get the first Mazda Miata in the bay area.
        I design products that solve problems. My patents are “utility” not design. I almost would rather I had a good eye for bobbles that people “want” as it would extend sales greatly.

        The Pyramids were covered in a greenish bright stone that was highly coveted. The stone was taken in theft for other more pressing needs after social breakdown.

        What you must come to know is that 4 billion years is entirely inadequate for the processes that you believe to have happened during that time.

        Small vs big.
        I think a major discrepancy in the discussion of these issues comes from a conversational difference.
        When I say “capitalism” the left thinks koch bros and GE.
        What I mean is for the most part small business which employ 63% of the work force and yet have no friend in DC from either camp. The Repubs bow to big bus. the dems bow to big labor. Small bus. actually pays the bulk of the taxes because small bus is taxed at the personal rate. AND we cover work mans comp, unemployment insurance, Insurance, state and local fees, licensing, etc. So a small startup actually pays out a bunch of $$ before ever taking one dime home. Yet we employ america. So the “socialism” I see is already baked in to the pie. With over 60% of gains being taxed in some form. Not to mention the original nest egg was taxed before we got it and now are at risk of losing it all. Capitalism starts as a dream to create value. Usually locally.
        Are we on the same page here? Or are the dems/liberals here still upset at the idea of capitalism?

        As stated before I do not want welfare for big bus, small bus, farming, big labor or the lazy.

      • GALT

        I am neither…….and you are missing the point…….because strangely, we are on the same page……..but the words are getting in the way…….you know there is a book called
        “Natural Capitalism”…….but the book that might help you sort through the words is:

        “Economics Unmasked”………new, short and different understanding of the approach we need to adopt……….because if nothing else, I can tell by your words, you do not intend harm…….a believe in the value of production for mutual benefit……..

        Unfortunately, this is not what is happening……..and the understanding of why, is the first step……..will you take it?

      • Dead Right

        Sir Galt:
        I have read 50 plus pages of the natural capitalism book and only a few of the economy unmasked.
        I have read a number of books that speak quite the opposite but one illuminating point is that the you seem to subscribe to the view of capitalism is linked with consolidation of power and injustice based on it. As well as a bit of green based socialism.

        I like electric cars. (For now I want a strong car to help save my family in an accident. As stated in a previous post about my wife getting hit from a three-time license loser while she was in a small car.) I have been a fan of Ballard and indeed almost bought stock in them until I uncovered a long term sales throughput problem. On the rechargeable type; right now battery powered cars would essentially be coal powered unless we go nuclear. Something many are not interested in. I have worked at the Lawrence Livermore Laboratory and would like to see one or more of the cold fusion ideas finally take off.

        But man will always do harm to man. Wealthy will always exist. Powerful people will always rule unless “overthrown” by the “masses”. Even then they will be tricked into a new paradigm. Case in point the Iranians always have “revolutions” that merely bring them to more oppression after each one.
        A forced system like the ones recommended in these books will be subverted even if the premise is harmless and as it states it sees some voluntary participation in its ideals. Case in point the monopolizing of battery technology by TPTB.

        Side note; I asked a friend who is a physics PHD and attorney what would happen if I came out with the paradigm game changer battery. (Yes I have a few ideas on that.) He said it would take 50 years for the world to ever even know about it. It would get buried, and fast, in lawsuits, patent infringement claims etc. by TPTB. (The Powers That Be)
        He has a client with that problem right now in another technology. One of those capitalism flaws….)

        I will not demand the perfect system but to work with the one I am dealt in this short life. On occasion I might even find myself doing things to improve what is already here. It seems to me capitalism will morph to some degree to being more efficient as it has done since Cleopatra bought the first foreign cloth import. It may even head toward your goal but ultimately will be thwarted by human nature. Unless you have found a way to work that out.

        In the books I have read, the issues of over population resource use etc. have been largely trumped up to produce as one author put it, “ moral” cause. This of course gives some weight and credence to the ideas like when a blowhard Christian tells you something is against “gods will”. Different people see the world as having largely different purposes for existence itself. Claims made by some like myself probably fly in the face of such as those who profess this sort of global socialism.

        In particular I struggle with how Jeffersonian liberals talk about freedom and injustice but perhaps do not realize the change they propose would foster a new type of injustice. Those of my “ilk” who work our buts off to pay for the poor and also contribute to charity work with both money and personal effort see our resources forcibly taken from us and given to say prisoners and the lazy. Even the needy. We also watch as the needy are merely a tool for re-election. Conversely the books seem to indicate we have yet to owe even more than what we are giving now. In the sort of “larger frame work” image they promote. Trying to account for all things.
        Many that believe in God think they are already operating in the larger framework.
        Saving people in the short time on the earth. And doing well with whatever life they have been dealt. To remove that freedom from them to take up an agenda that seems temporal to replace their vision of life is, in my view to cause oppression. Perhaps this is why so many on the left disdain Christians. Two gods. One screaming about social injustice, the other talking about lost souls.

        Abraham Lincoln:
        “We all declare for liberty; but in using the same word we do not all mean the same thing. With some the word liberty may mean for each man to do as he pleases with himself, and the product of his labor; while with others, the same word may mean for some men to do as they please with other men, and the product of other men’s labor. Here are two, not only different, but incompatible things, called by the same name-liberty. And it follows that each of these things is, by the respective parties called by two and incompatible names, liberty and tyranny.”

        Perhaps as stated above we both view each other as the tryanist and ourselves as the liberalist.

        I consider myself a conservationist. I repair devices in my home and other’s. I rarely throw anything away and rebuild products that come in for replacement. Sometimes even rescuing items from dumps or junkyards. I even have a vision for how to reuse motorhomes. I don’t like to waste and have personal talents that allow me to waste less.

        At present many seem to want a complete restructuring of all the US is. While I am trying to hold on to what I perceive as the freedom I have come to love so much.

        We both have boogeymen to bring out for each other. I, the banksters and the communists, and for some leftists the concerns of the evil crony capitalists and the end of the great green planet. Both showing some signs of apparent hypocrisy.

        I had this discussion for over a year with my handy man while we rebuilt my flooded home. He has suspicions about the evil oil companies and global warming.
        I have suspicions about the socialists and making a crisis out of whole cloth.

        Some doubts about oil companies for sure but the same is true when I read green books that recommend the world population be reduced to 100 million. Who decides that?

        I am very scientifically minded and find that much of what passes for science is the new witch doctoring. I do not consider science by proxy of either authority or consensus to be settled science. Science to me is understanding cause and effect. Testable, traceable, calculable.

        While it appears from this discussion we may not ever find as much to agree on,
        I have at least a better insight to your views.
        I must also acknowledge Dave67 for engaging in this conversation a well. I hope I did not ware him out.

        I have a company to run and a family to bring up and an unwed mother and an aging father to care for, so I will catch up with you some other time. Feel free to respond. I will check up here.
        Regards,
        Dead Right.

  • http://PLD FRENCHIE

    SPLC – Stupid Policies from Lying Communists…NOW THAT FITS PERFECTLY !!!!!!

    • eddie47d

      Why would you say that Frenchie? The SPLC has freed innocent men from prison took Klan gangsters to trial who burned Christian churches and stopped forced sterilization in America. They have fought for workers cheated out of wages and individuals bullied by gangs. How is that lying and what are you doing to make America a better place?

      • truesoy

        eddie’t know any better47d;

        Frenchie says that because that’s how people that don’t know any better,express themselves.

        Sincerely;
        Truesoy

  • http://www.facebook.com/michaelboldin Michael Boldin

    To see a post by Mr Livingston talking about our work here at the Tenth Amendment Center in such a positive way – this is truly humbling.

    Thank you, sir – for the kind words. And thanks to all of you reading here and supporting the ideas that we do….the Constitution. Period.

  • Thinking About

    Where is your Christopher Columbus and if many here would encourage someone to go and find land where you could make or not make your own rules and regulations then you would not have to worry about governments and being told what to do. You could also set up your requirements for anyone entering your country. I understand the neo-Nazi group has big differences with SPLC and in your new country this would not be a conflict. Until then all the oath keepers, etc which foes not have a majority in the USA will have to follow rules in which we citizens are required to do.

  • Buck

    I have an extremely difficult time determining which organization , the ACLU or the SPLC , is the most communist and criminal organization in the world after the United Nations . what I am sure of is that no human being that is not a worshiper of SATAN would be a member of either organization . To call them scum of excrement would be an upgrade .

  • http://twitter.com/ericbischoff Eric Bischoff (@ericbischoff)

    Bob,
    everyone is entitled to their opinions even if they are misinformed, after all this is your site.

    What am I saying! you have now stooped so low as to use the despicable techniques used by so many here of disparagingly renaming an organization and even linking it to another disparaging ideology so as to slander them. Your choices of words are obviously meant to accuse and condemn. Guilty until proven innocent. I didn’t know you were of the same mind as this corrupt government.

    Tell me Bob do you also feel that way about the ACLU?

    How would you like it if people started calling this place PurportedLiberty.com, a pro-fascist, anti-americans site.

    I am disappointed in you.

    It’s unhealthy to be so rigid in one’s opinions and ideology. I come here to challenge myself and to learn other viewpoints.

    But this is dribble.

    • http://boblivingstonpl.wordpress.com Bob Livingston

      Dear Eric Bischoff,

      You write: “everyone is entitled to their opinions even if they are misinformed, after all this is your site.” True

      You write: “What am I saying! you have now stooped so low as to use the despicable techniques used by so many here of disparagingly renaming an organization and even linking it to another disparaging ideology so as to slander them. Your choices of words are obviously meant to accuse and condemn. Guilty until proven innocent. I didn’t know you were of the same mind as this corrupt government.” I did not “accuse and condemn.” I provided opinion based on fact. I have known about and followed the activities of this subversive “charity” for some time.

      You write: “How would you like it if people started calling this place PurportedLiberty.com, a pro-fascist, anti-americans site.” We are called fascist and anti-American on a daily basis.

      You write: “It’s unhealthy to be so rigid in one’s opinions and ideology.” What do you mean, exactly?

      You write: “I come here to challenge myself and to learn other viewpoints.” And I believe you accomplish that.

      Best wishes,
      Bob

      • http://twitter.com/ericbischoff Eric Bischoff (@ericbischoff)

        Sorry Bob I wholeheartedly disagree with you on this one.

        The Southern Poverty Law Center was and is a labor of love. The fact that they are doing well is because they are on the right side of the issues and they are good at what they do and they have been successful and winning cases against bigotry, racism, sexism, intolerance and discrimination and many people are willing to donate money to these causes. Good for them. Since when is doing well a crime in this crowd!

        I venture to say that they will be even more successful seeing that there is still so much of that vile crap in America today.

        One has to make a stand and take sides. I’ll side with the SPLC and the ACLU any day but I guess some people still side with the KKK and other white supremacist groups. Isn’t that what this is really about!

        I also find it interesting that the hate, racism, bigotry, sexism, misogyny, gay bashing, intolerance and hate groups come mostly from the extreme right purportedly Christian ideology.

        I’d rather stand with the progressives, the liberals, the left, the atheists, the gays, the immigrants, the prostitutes and the oppressed following in the footsteps of Thomas Paine, Jefferson, Hamilton and Jesus and I am not even religious.

        The extreme right, the libertarians and the tea party still wrap themselves in the flag and stand on their bibles but they don’t seem to practice much of it.

        • http://boblivingstonpl.wordpress.com Bob Livingston

          Dear Eric Bischoff,

          You write: “The Southern Poverty Law Center was and is a labor of love.” It is a labor of soaking wealthy liberals and stoking racial flames.

          You write: “The fact that they are doing well is because they are on the right side of the issues and they are good at what they do and they have been successful and winning cases against bigotry, racism, sexism, intolerance and discrimination and many people are willing to donate money to these causes. Good for them. Since when is doing well a crime in this crowd!” I am disappointed in your response. I assumed straw man arguments and logical fallacies beneath you.

          You write: “I also find it interesting that the hate, racism, bigotry, sexism, misogyny, gay bashing, intolerance and hate groups come mostly from the extreme right purportedly Christian ideology.” Again this time with ad hominems and non sequiturs. I can see why you would side with the Preposterous Lie Center. You sound just like them. Despite your protestations to the contrary, you are trapped in false paradigm of conventional wisdom.

          Best wishes,
          Bob

    • Dead Right

      Hello Eric:
      I have found on this site overstatements of posters which seem mostly to be based on what we are told about the other. Your comments on the subject of the right seems to be mostly taken from either extreme, (and agree with you) idoits on the right or some purported stereotype. While I sincerely do not like the ACLU as they are the group that constantly sues to not allow graduates to express their faith in ceremonies. It does not mean I make you out to be that extreme unless you express yourself as such.
      As a person on the right I do not like elected liberals as they seem to think central control is smarter than most of us that base our advancement on accomplishment and our decisions on our own experience. This is what leads to tyranny. I know from other posters here that on the left you fear corpratist tyranny. Understood. But the small companies like mine are getting pounded from both sides and we employ 63% of workers. Central planning is eating us alive. So I have to say “no”.

  • http://gravatar.com/irishenforcer Dennisirishenforcer

    Id point out to check just who is in charge and in the top money makers of the SPLC.Its not whites but jews.Huge difference

    • macgyver1948

      Since most Jews are white, Caucasian anyway, what is your point? Could it be you are anti-semitic and are blaming all Jews? Do you think all Jews are in charge? Most Jews in this country are mid to lower middle class. I accept your right to hate but just so you know hate, of any kind, is the opposite of God. Are you an atheist too?

  • macgyver1948

    I just love it when the programed mind ASSUMES those who are liberal are also Commy. IT tells me their programming is so incomplete but perhaps as it is intended. Ive been called a commie when I stand up for American Freedom as the Founders fought for. I say things like ‘The Founders knew the evil of Corporate influence in Government because of their huge money, and I get called a commie. The Founders feared corporations so they created protections for us but over the years big corporations have purchased government elected and appointed loyalty to have those protections removed. Thomas Jefferson and many of the pothers wanted “Separation Of Corporations and State” and when I say this some programmed minds from the right call me a Commie.

    The founders wanted both “Separation Of Church and State” and “Separation Of Corporations and State” because they didn’t want either side(s) influencing or controlling law making. They knew the dangers that would be present from how things were, from churches and Corporations, when England ruled here. World history going so far back also supports what the Founders wanted for us. I am so much for our Constitution and how the Founders wanted things for us and I get called a commie when I bring up history. I suppose the right fears history and the truth. The GOP and the Founders would not like one another at all. How can most liberals be commies if we want individual freedom, liberties for all equally regardless of your religion or economic standing or where you come from? Do not tread on me just because you are of a different religion as I or I come from a different place. That is Anti-American.

    This country was founded by immigrants and build on the back of immigrants and their descendants. The far right seems to be against the current trend of immigrants. I am against the immigrants who came here illegally but if their kids, who came here by rule of their parents, have been living here without breaking laws (it was their parents who broke our laws and not them) they most likely do not know any place else, but The United States, as a home. Some time you just should do what is right and not what your party tells you is right. I tend to disagree with the Democratic Party when their stance on the issue just doesn’t feel right. Not often but I do and I have not agreed with the GOP since I really started seeing they were being overtly bought up by the very wealthy and the big corporations.

    The Tea Party is in existence because the Koch Brothers wanted to buy up the Government and control it. Obama was in their way so they spread the hate, for him, long before he was elected. Obama will not do only what is great for the very wealthy and the big corporations so the Koch-like will go on hating him. Simple enough, If I do not agree with what the Koch-like want I am a commie. Read up on Koch family history and see if you really want to exchange the dreaded Big Government for the Government of The Corporate People, as the GOP is busting their purchased butts to help accomplish. Big Government should be decreased but we have to watch who we will do this for, the Corporations or us.

    Good night…. :-))).

    • http://twitter.com/ericbischoff Eric Bischoff (@ericbischoff)

      macgyver I agree with most of what you said.

      Where I see things differently is that we instituted NAFTA and decimated the Central American farmers causing an even greater migration north. Therefore I don’t take a hard stand against people who are just trying to survive and make a better life for themselves.

      As far as I am concerned people are more important than borders.

      I also know that if you have a million dollars and a lawyer and are willing to start a business and hire a couple of people you can have a green card and US citizenship pretty easily. Inequality is everywhere. Money talks. The rich never have to stand in line.

      The real irony is also how the Koch Brothers owe their fortune to Stalin for building the Soviet oil industry. So Stalin is indirectly responsible for funding the Tea Party. The very people who so love to call anyone they disagree with a communist, marxist, sociallist. Priceless!

      • Charlie Tall

        Eric wrote, “So Stalin is indirectly responsible for funding the Tea Party.”

        Eric, you could also write that Stalin was DIRECTLY responsible for the ACLU.

      • michaeljbeglinjr

        As far as I’m concerned, we should repeal NAFTA and close our borders. I am sick and tired of illegals coming here for a free ride. People may be more important than borders, but those same people need to fix the mess their own countries are in. The vast majority of them come here and try to change America. To hell with that. Let them change their own country, or get in line for a LEGAL visa. You are living in a fantasy world. America no longer has endless vistas and boundless fields. We are now limited, and the illegals are making things harder on every American. Period. Obama “created” 3 million jobs last year, yet handed out 3.1 million Green Cards. How does that help America? It does not. It only helps corrupt politicians and factory owners that are so over-taxed that they can only make a profit by hiring illegals. Lower corporate taxes by 75-80%, mandate E-Verify for every business, and Americans would be back to work in no time. Think with your head, not your heart. Letting these illegals stay is hurting our childrens’ future. Anyone who is fine with that is either childless, clueless, or a simpleton.

    • Charlie Tall

      Mac wrote, “The founders wanted both “Separation Of Church and State…because they didn’t want either side(s) influencing or controlling law making.”

      That statement is based on ignorance: pure, unadulterated, concentrated, bone-numbing ignorance.

      Separation of church and state (a shortened form of the actual phrase in a letter written by Jefferson to the to the Danbury Baptist Association in 1802) was in answer to concerns by the Baptists that their government saw religious freedom as a privilege granted by the state rather than an unalienable right given by God.

      The letter actually contains the phrase “wall of separation between church and state,” and it means that it was not the place of the Congress or the Executive to do anything that might be misconstrued as the establishment of religion.

      Not the other way round.

      Historically, England had an official state religion. They still do. It’s called the Church of England. Jefferson, and most all of the Founding Fathers, felt that government had no business either establishing, controlling, or interfering with religion. Thus the letter, fourteen years after the Constitution was ratified, explaining the motivation and thoughts of these Founders.

      The true meaning of separation of church and state has been perverted by people like macgyver1948 who are either too lazy to learn the truth, too stupid to understand it when it’s handed to them, or so dishonest that they don’t care…or willing to believe any BS handed to them in what passes for public school education today.

      Another truth is that the Founders did not believe that the country could last without a moral and virtuous people. They have been proven too correct in that belief as is amply demonstrated by macgyver1948 and many others.

      • michaeljbeglinjr

        Religion has no place in politics. Down that road lies theocracy. Read the Treaty of Tripoli, and see if you can find the relevant lines. It is up to the people to be religious. It is not up to any part of the government to be involved in religion in any way. Of course, they should tax churches, since they are businesses. The churches around here now run credit checks on prospective members. If that does not show where their true priorities lie, I don’t know what will. That is pure greed. If they want you there just for your tithe, then they are a business, and not a church.

      • http://gravatar.com/macgyver1948 macgyver1948

        Hay Charlie, thanks for the compliments. The founders did indeed “not believe that the country could last without a moral and virtuous people.”. But they also felt morality should not be defined by any church or religious organization. Where would it end? How would you feel if Jewish organizations said if you didn’t believe as Jesus did that the right Sabbath day has to be Saturday you would be wrong? Could you say Jesus was wrong? Or some Catholic organization demanding baby baptism or you will be fined until…?

        If you think once these kinds of things begins it wouldn’t slowly reach greater proportions then you do not know history or human nature. I believe we need morality but we do not need any religious organization influencing law making, or especially any of us who isn’t of them, because they will inflict their own form of beliefs. If any religious organization even tries to invade the realm of American law making they should lose their tax exempt status and be treated as any corporation. We lose Democracy if one group tries to inflict their organizational beliefs on the rest of us.

        You mentioned Thomas Jefferson. He and a number of other founders would not agree with you on this any more than they were ok with corporate influence in government, especially big corporate money. They wanted “Separation Of Corporation And State for very real reasons and we can see how wise they are today. Romney is coning us with his “Corporations are people too” crap but you have your right to be wrong about that too. Disagree with the Founders if you want, you have that right, but at least don’t mislead us about them, you know, the Tea Party thing. I’m not the one perverting anything here.

        macgyver1948

  • michaeljbeglinjr

    “Boldin’s sin, according to the preposterously pro-Marxist, anti-American Preposterous Lie Center, is that the TAC “is on the far right, opposing a whole array of federal laws and regulations.”

    I guess they think it is okay for Obama to go against the Constitution on a daily basis though. Obama has done everything but blow his nose on it, yet they have no problem with him? This country is fast becoming a joke. How long will we sit back and watch everything this country was founded on spiral down the drain? What will it take to get the people moving?

  • truesoy

    Bob,

    It is an irrational act, and also anti-american to justified/defend the actions of those that advocate the overthrow of the duly elected government of the United States. And rather than to make excuses for/or justifying them, Bob, you should instead repudiate them.
    Ever since Obama was elected president strange things have happened to some people that now call themselves ‘patriots’; gee, I wonder what?
    Bob, maybe you could elaborate on that.
    Most of these so called patriots, count on people’s ignorance for support. Take Mr. Stewart Rhodes and his conspiracy minded “Oath Keeper’ that encourages soldiers and police officers to disobey ‘unconstitutional orders’.
    Mr. Rhodes knows that it is illegal for soldiers and police officers to obey an ‘unlawful order and therefore could and will be punish for doing so.
    Unless Mr. Rhodes definition is an attemp to extend beyond that which under present law is illegal, and/or pretend to that effect that they are illegal acts by which it will then justify acts of mutiny and subversion by the armed forces of the United States with hopes of disintegrating our government.
    ….and these people call themselves ‘patriots’!, isn’t it ironic, from the ‘self-appointed’ defenders of the Constitution. Go figure.
    Would you, Bob, oppose with the same fervor what you pretend the SPLC is doing (giving a pass to the dogs and fire hoses in Birmigham), the ‘pass’ that was given to certain people (those who gave the orders) for ‘illegal rendition’ (waterboarding, etc), during the Bush administration? I doubt it very much. On the contrary I remember their (conservatives) feverish support for the administration’s policy.
    Bob, don’t get me wrong, many low man/woman in the totem pole paid dearly for it. But how about everyone else involved?
    What is the real reason for these irrational anti-Obama campaign, and how obsessed many in the conservative sphere have become by it that they are willing to destroy the country in their pursuit?. One can only speculate, and it is not a pretty picture.

    Sincerely;
    Truesoy

    • truesoy

      Ps.- Just to add.: this is a behaviour by the ‘right’ should be of concern to all

  • http://NONE rmgdnnow

    Cut to the chase: Little-d democratic societies have in the past evolved or been forced into dictatorships, kingdoms, empires, war lord domains. The Kerensky government was destroyed by Lenin, the Weimar Republic by Hitler, whatever democracy in Chicago there was before the Daley machine was displaced by Daley. It will happen here, too, unless the working type population of the U.S. wake up and oppose the dictatorial tendencies of people like Obama and his backers.

    • macgyver1948

      rmgdnnow… You seem very determined in your belief when it comes to how socialism evolves and where it is going. I won’t argue with you about it but I will say when it comes to social(ism) control, as it was with Hitler and the Others I see Koch and their supporters in the doing. I study their family history since early John Birch Society through to the Tea Party, especially how they run their businesses and how they want to own the government (with including buying up many GOP politicians, including Romney) and I see what you say with the ones you mention from past history. We agree to a point, that being the who now.

  • Charles

    Minor items: The egg came first as the egg that hatched as a chicken was laid by a jungle fowl. Question regarding creationism/evolution- are there cretures that can produce living but non breedable offspring (mules) or creatures that are virtually identical but can not interbreed (some fish on the two sides of the central american land mass)? Has some plants mutated to the point of being resistant to “Round up” without taking on the genes from the modified crops and then be resistant to breeding with regular forms of themselves? These would all be indications of evolution. The popping in of new species (would we even know it since we don’t know all of those that are now?) tells us notihing – is it the creator doing her thing or evolution going about it’s way? Does it mater?
    The political discussions have been most enlightening. Being a libertarian since the the Goldwater campaign – when I learned that most/all the politicians are looking to push their own agenda for wealth/power.

    • mtman2

      Every recessed option within the genetic code passed onto each generation IS obviously IN that genetic code{like all dog types from wolves-variation=originally there!}. It’s Mendel again; NOT ‘spontaneous generation’. OR, is it “Immaculate generation” -no-”spontaneous Conception”???! Well it’s certain DNA didn’t invent itself! An amoeba is far more complex than all super computers put together=leads to 2+2=4 not 3 or 5. Neither did the Periodic table of contents ‘appear’ from “nowhere”, nor quarks etc. + GOD knows what else: oh that’s right He does! THE FOUNDATION LAWS OF -real -SCIENCE ARE THE 1ST+2ND LAWS OF THERMO-DYNAMICS{a closed w/preset formats=intelligent design} + THE RULE OF ENTROPY!!!{all things are in a state decay-NOT-the other way around=an anathema to ‘evol-ution’=Romans1:20-5}!! These self described esoteric ‘theorists’ attempting recondite thoughts in the metaphysics of the ontological arguments thinking themselves abstruse, but only ofuscate real timeless thought + understanding of “what is-IS”[like that deep thinker the ‘horny-hick from Arkansas said “…define IS”. ALBERT EINSTEIN SAID-”Look deep into nature, + then you will understand everything better”-also-…”look at everything as a miracle”!

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