Living Outside The System And Preparing For Coming Collapse

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I have written to you many times over the years about food storage and owning some junk silver coins. (U.S. coins minted before 1965 that are 90 percent silver.)

Also, if possible, we should own some small gold coins and have some cash currency, at least enough for 90 days or more.

For sure, we need some guns suited for each member of the family. Each family member should become familiar with his gun and have extra ammunition for each gun.

Barter items are also very important. Use your imagination here. There are many ideas on this such as coffee, dried food such as beans, cigarettes, canned sardines, canned tuna, sugar and stevia, salt, rice, tea, canned soups, cleaning products, soap products, food bars, basic patent medicines, your prescription medicines and many more. A good source for vacuum-packed food is the Mormons.

Living outside the system means total independence from all government and everyday grocery stores and pharmacies. Even your power source (public utilities) should be backed up with a gas or other fuel generator.

We almost certainly face a black depression or a total collapse, and very few people are ready. Why? Most people are so accustomed to the easy life with everything at their fingertips that they cannot imagine a crash of the system leaving people desperate. It is much better to be prepared with the items mentioned above. So what if you lose some food along the way? You can say that you had some insurance. No time to worry about this.

We won’t quit living and enjoying life because we take some money and buy food and emergency supplies. But we will feel more secure. Do not discuss your storage project with anybody.

The breakdown of the system should now be visible to everybody. Government is failing at every level, along with the collapse of morality. In the final stages of any government, there is a breakdown of morality and work ethic. Society becomes “dog-eat-dog.” This is visible now.

Of course, we must remember that the basic cause of the collapse of any government is its currency debasement. This is all too evident in the United States today.

The U.S. is past life support of borrowing money. We live on printing press money. It’s past the runaway stage.

You remember the crash of the housing bubble in 2008? Continued artificially low interest rates by the Federal Reserve are causing a repeat of that malinvestment-fueled calamity. Those who study the charts are seeing housing numbers that “are reminiscent of 2005 and 2006.”

The home price affordability index as tracked by the National Association of Realtors has been below its long-term trend line for four months now. Three economists from Robert Morris University say that history shows this means a housing bubble is in place. Bubbles inevitably collapse.

Worse is the indication that the United States is now in a hyperinflationary phase. The U.S. dollar is on perilous ground.

It took the United States more than 200 years to reach $8 trillion in “debt.” Since 2006, when helicopter Ben Bernanke began his reckless money printing spree, U.S. “debt” has more than doubled and now stands at $17 trillion.

The dollar has lost 98 percent in real terms since 1913. In just the past four months, it has lost 8 percent to the euro. And it has lost more than 65 percent to the euro since 2000. When it falls against junk currencies like the euro, it is a sure sign the dollar is collapsing.

Inflation is not rising prices, as I have explained before. Inflation is the increase in the money supply and credit. Rising prices are a symptom of inflation.

As the excellent Zero Hedge explains:

Inflation is often mixed up with rising prices, but those are only the consequence of inflation. Essentially, inflation is a monetary phenomenon. It reflects the amount of money in circulation: if that increases, inflation goes up. The ultimate effect of increasing prices is logical, as more units of a variable asset (money) are around in comparison to a fixed asset (e.g. commodities). This results in the need for more units of the former, to get the latter. Those who want to know how much money circulates may want to ask the central banks, as their balance sheet is largely representative. And because America is the supplier of the world reserve currency, the balance sheet of the Federal Reserve is the ultimate measure of inflation.

Fed-base

Looking at the chart of the Fed’s balance sheet above, one immediately notices an inflation explosion. This is monetary inflation, of course, but the effect of this has not really trickled down to our daily lives and there is a good reason for that: The velocity of money collapsed at the same time. (See the chart below.) And that is because of the fact that the money created by the Fed is still stuck in bonds and other debt securities. Moreover, a major part of the money reserves is parked in banks. Consequently, the ratio (the velocity of money) has plummeted in recent years — not because there is less money in circulation, but because more of the money is tied up.

Velocity-of-M2-money

Some people will tell you there is no inflation and cite phony government numbers cooked to keep the collapsing economic conditions under wraps. But based on 1980 measures, inflation is at 8.8 percent, not the 1.5 percent used to cheat seniors out of their proper Social Security cost of living adjustment and interest payments to the Chinese and Japanese at sustainable levels.

Some people will tell you the rising stock market is indicative of a strong economy. Granted, the stock market continues to bounce around all-time highs. But the Zimbabwean stock market went from 2,000 to 40,000 in one year during the early stages of Zimbabwe’s hyperinflation. By the end, Zimbabwe was printing trillion-dollar notes. The people and the system had to use foreign currencies to survive. Of course, money debasement speeds up and becomes exponential in the last months of a regime’s existence.

Currency debasement because of printing press money destroys government and undermines the moral fabric of society and most especially elected Congressmen and Senators. How long now with the present U.S. system?

I am glad that I don’t know that answer. But if you have no preparations for your and your family’s survival as outlined here, this should be your No. 1 concern.

Editor’s note: Since we switched to the Disqus comment system several months ago, there have been times when discussions in the Comment Section have gone awry because the system was incorrectly attributing comments to the wrong commenter(s). The Personal Liberty technical team has been working with the Disqus team for some time to identify and to try to correct it. Evidence indicates the problem is confined to those commenters who signed in to comment as guests rather than through Disqus. We believe the problem can be solved by accepting comments only from those who have signed into Disqus either through Disqus or a social media account. It is free to do so and does not require you to give Personal Liberty any private information. This change took effect today. We hope this will improve the experience for everyone in the Personal Liberty community.

Note from the Editor: As a reader you deserve to know the truth behind the economic disaster America faces. I’ve arranged for readers to get free copies of two books that reveal the sinister plot by the US Government to steal our wealth—a plot Merrill Jenkins, Sr. (the Original Monetary Realist) tried to expose at great risk. His books are hard to find, but these books include rare transcripts from his lectures. Click here for your free copies.

Personal Liberty

Bob Livingston

founder of Personal Liberty Digest™, is an ultra-conservative American author and editor of The Bob Livingston Letter™, in circulation since 1969. Bob has devoted much of his life to research and the quest for truth on a variety of subjects. Bob specializes in health issues such as nutritional supplements and alternatives to drugs, as well as issues of privacy (both personal and financial), asset protection and the preservation of freedom.

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  • http://www.facebook.com/Orrie461 Orrie Froloff

    A collapse is coming and many Americans are not prepared. They are either oblivious to what is happening or they just don’t care. Those who are on government assistance believe there in no bottom to the pot and will continue to be provided for. Soon it will all implode and people who are not ready will suffer the consequences of their ignorance.

    • Vis Fac

      Orrie:

      I have asked every liberal these questions and because these questions are indefensible have YET to receive an answer!!

      Why are you liberal? Let me ask you as I have asked others and have yet to receive responses other than what “your” idea of a response should be. Why are you the first to use pejoratives to assault others (as you’ve done here) when you have nothing to support your argument then become incensed when others respond in kind??

      Aside from receiving free welfare, free food stamps, government support, having no personal responsibility, believing that you know everything and have authority to dictate others how they should live, and in lieu of providing solutions to problems (that you continually ignore) that would actually work instead enacting inane ineffective statutes. In short what have you provided that could be considered positive towards society?

      Why is it that you continue to champion for the safety of our children then reverse your concerns when it comes to government sanctioned murder of millions of innocent children through Planned Parenthood? You certainly make a lot of noise when a nut case goes off and murders school children by deafly mute about murder by abortion. Why is that?

      Another thing I have asked and again you liberals never have any responsibility. Why can’t you learn to live within a budget like everyone else? Why can’t you manage your checkbook instead of drawing credit paid for by future generations of American Citizens?

      What are you going to do when (not if) the money runs out and there are no more business and people to tax that pay your entitlements, print more paper?

      When asked about the bankruptcy of Detroit you liberals continue to blame it on mismanagement forgetting Detroit has been managed by DUMBOCRITES for more than 50 years yet STILL do not except responsibility!!! Why is that?

      Personally; I think the biggest draw to liberalism is the lack of having to
      except personal responsibility for oneself and assign blame of your failure on others. This eliminates the need to be proficient in school or at ones job. The old reliable liberal trademarked maxim ‘It’s not MY fault”. We all know it is an excuse for you to cop out.

      I am of the opinion that people with weak character, weak minds, and
      compromised morals are those who embrace liberalism. They are most often angry at success and because their lethargy and indolence will never let them achieve success so they hate, abase and ridicule those who have. We all know most people like to take the easy way out and in that respect the “most” here in the nation embrace liberalism.

      Since liberals feel (subconsciously) inferior and as misery loves company; liberals try to control others through statute inflicting as much misery as possible.

      Again; and I don’t expect a response: I would like to know why you think our Constitution is out dated and why you are willing to cede freedoms which when lost can never be regained sans revolution as our forefathers fought for. If you are at all honest with yourself you will see you are in error a grievous error that can be fatal.

      The most gratifying response I have received to date was from someone who “thinks” they know everything
      He wrote “Hey those of you on the right…do you really want to claim this one????? “
      As I read them a broad smile came to me as I realized
      that these are the words of a desperate person and validation that I indeed bothered him and had gotten under his skin, AND most importantly in doing so I rendered him impotent !!!

      To sit back hoping that someday, some way, someone will make things right is to go on feeding the wolf hoping he will eat you last – but eat you he will.

      You don’t have to be a Marine to make a difference the only requirement is being truly patriotic and the willingness to back it up!!!

      Libertas inaestimabilis res est
      Semper-Fi

      • Eric Bischoff

        Then again Force it could be that you’re the one that is indoctrinated, the one that has blindingly bought the propaganda, the one that really knows very little and ASSumes a lot. The one that talk big with your Semper-Fi but are really afraid of things you don’t understand. You probably joined the armed forces thinking this was the right thing to do. Me I could never have been part of that establishment. I question everything. I have a hard time obeying stupid orders. And I can’t think of one instance where war was the right answer. Especially considering all of the lies perpetrated to get you guys to join and be hung ho.

        • Vis Fac

          Well Eric My being a professional mechanical/electrical/structural engineer leave little not to know or be exposed to or experience so that about leaves your inference on my not understanding fro a better word shall we say lacking. So I never ASSume anything In fact I question everything a procedure that (even though claim to have) has NEVER entered your last remaining brain cell.

          The “propaganda” I “bought” comes straight from Our Constitution and the Bill of Rights. so again that debunks/trumps what you say regarding that nonsense.

          As for my being a Marine and our motto of Semper Fidelis (Always Faithful) is a right of passage and a code we Marines live by . I needed no lies or lures to enlist. Being a “legal” immigrant I saw it as my duty to serve to try and pay back what was made available to me.

          Candy A$$ED cowards like you who take what you have for granted while living leeching off others would NEVER consider doing ANYTHING to pay for what you receive let alone know what a “stupid order” is. Being as disconnected as you I would wonder if you have ever experienced a rational moment in your entire pathetic life. We certainly wouldn’t want a wise A$$ like you to have to set straight on a daily basis

          I like your quote ” Me I could never have been part of that establishment” this speaks volumes for ones lack of character. I hate to be the bearer of bad news Eric but you ARE part of the “establishment” just the wrong one. You believe that your socialist handlers are going to share the pie with you. Well with socialists somebody is going to get something but that somebody will not be you!

          To sit back hoping that someday, some way, someone will make things right is to go on feeding the wolf hoping he will eat you last – but eat you he will.

          You don’t have to be a Marine to make a difference the only requirement is being truly patriotic and the willingness to back it up!!!

          Libertas inaestimabilis res est
          Semper-Fi

          • Eric Bischoff

            So what you are telling us is that character only belongs to those who let themselves be sold a bill of good like you will be protecting democracy and the free world.

            Are you telling us also that you have no respect for anyone who sees though the lies and has the nerve to stand up (usually alone) and say to the majority, I disagree with you and I am not doing that and I will not kill other humans for your lies and your greed?

            I think patriotism is part of the problem. We are one.

          • Vis Fac

            Well Eric what I’m telling you that you like a typical liberal cannot distinguish what a lie is. Listening to your idol ODUMBO push ODUMBOCARE and all the LIES perpetrated on the public to sell that white elephant to Hillarious Clinton LYING about Benghazi to Eric Holders; Fast and Furious not to mention the IRS and NSA telling LIES I suspect you are one of them so to you these are truths.

            You need institutionalization Eric Oh wait ODUMBOCARE doesn’t cover that does it?

            You live in a fantasy land and ascribe to Joseph Goebbels who said:
            “If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The
            lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus
            becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.” You have not only been shielded but eat this liberal one dimensional idiot-ology
            This makes YOU the liar.
            To sit back hoping that someday, some way, someone will make things right is to go on feeding the wolf hoping he will eat you last – but eat you he will.

            You don’t have to be a Marine to make a difference the only requirement is being truly patriotic and the willingness to back it up!!!

            Libertas inaestimabilis res est
            Semper-Fi

          • Jack

            Eric:

            As you can tell Force Recon is full of it. He changes his life story as the need arises. When you ignore his contradictions, he basically claims he did three consecutive tours (years) in Vietnam in a Marine Recon unit (which mainly operates behind enemy lines), and was never wounded. He got out of the Marines in the mid 1970’s, got 3 or 4 college degrees and had a 100 employee world wide engineering firm which President Carter’s policies nearly destroyed but Reagan’s policies saved. He had a son who was murdered by a criminal who was only free to murder his son because he had gotten off of a previous crime due to a technicality. Lastly, his daughter is an orthopedic surgeon who is quitting the practice of medicine because of Obamacare.

            He constantly posts something and then denies that he ever said it even when you paste in his statement and confront him with it. Frequently, even with his words in front of him he will accuse you of saying what he said.

            In response to my question he said that Obamacare and ACA were two different laws (ACA good, Obamacare bad). He even tried to argue with me saying that UPS, Fedex, etc. never use the Post Office to delivery their packages when they do.

            He knows all about Obamacare and its secrete regulations know only by doctors like his daughter that provide fines of $400.000.00 for not doing what the government tells them to do yet he was never able to
            post a copy of the “secrete” regulations or a citation as to where those regulations can be found.

            In short, whenever he says something it is usually nothing more than a repeat of some baseless or distorted right wing talking point that he has heard or read.

          • Jack

            Eric:

            As you can tell Force Recon is full of it. He changes his life story as the need arises. When you ignore his contradictions, he basically claims he did three consecutive tours (years) in Vietnam in a Marine Recon unit (which mainly operates behind enemy lines), and was never wounded. He got out of the Marines in the mid 1970’s, got 3 or 4 college degrees and had a 100 employee world wide engineering firm which President Carter’s policies nearly destroyed but Reagan’s policies saved. He had a son who was murdered by a criminal who was only free to murder his son because he had gotten off of a previous crime due to a technicality. Lastly, his daughter is an orthopedic surgeon who is quitting the practice of medicine because of Obamacare.

            He constantly posts something and then denies that he ever said it even when you paste in his statement and confront him with it. Frequently, even with his words in front of him he will accuse you of saying what he said.

            In response to my question he said that Obamacare and ACA were two different laws (ACA good, Obamacare bad). He even tried to argue with me saying that UPS, Fedex, etc. never use the Post Office to delivery their packages when they do.

            He knows all about Obamacare and its secrete regulations know only by doctors like his daughter that provide fines of $400.000.00 for not doing what the government tells them to do yet he was never able to
            post a copy of the “secrete” regulations or a citation as to where those regulations can be found.

            In short, whenever he says something it is usually nothing more than a repeat of some baseless or distorted right wing talking point that he has heard or read.

          • Just Me

            Proof?

          • http://www.rt.com Alondra

            I also caught him lying.

          • Just Me

            You don’t deserve to call yourself an American. Go live in Cuba, North Korea or Iran. Then you will be running back home with your arms open crying “Mommy, take me back”
            You are a sorry excuse for a man. Hoorah!

          • Eric Bischoff

            Peace be with you!

          • Just Me

            Really? You have not given me an answer as to how you know that I am a he and not a she? Afraid to?

          • Eric Bischoff

            Now I finally understand why marketing experts tell us to write for the average 6 year old level of understanding.

            Hooooraaaaaaaaahhhhhhh!

          • Just Me

            Oh my Gosh, You think I am a man because I say Hoorah!?????? HAHAHAHAHAHA! I knew you were a silly person!. A wonderful Christian man, an ARMY veteran, married me and has taken care of me for the past 16 years. HAHAHAHAHAHA!! I am so proud of him, he served his country in the 3rd infantry, the highest decorated infantry in the Army. He married me knowing I had broken my back. He has cared for me and now I can walk. He became the man he is IN THE ARMY, He became the man he is because he served his country, he risked his life and HE is the MAN YOU will NEVER be. Fooled you!!! And by the way, Eric, who is the 6 year old? HOORAH! You did not even spell it right! Thank you for the laugh, I was having a bad pain day, but really, thank you so much for the giggle, the tee hee, the hilarity. And by the way, I have survived so much in my life that a silly person like yourself, a person who has never served his country, somebody who just takes from his country and never gives back, cannot offend me! HAHAHahAHA HOORAH!!!! Roy’s Baby Girl

          • Just Me

            By the way, my picture is my baby kitty who I had to put down in January who stayed with me through many a surgery. Rest in Peace, my sweet beautiful gentle giant.

          • Eric Bischoff

            You’re welcome, for the laughs that is!

            But you know nothing about me and yet you, like many pretend christians here, pre-judge me.

          • Just Me

            So kind of you to say so. No, I did not pre-judge you. You exposed yourself. You admitted that you never served and that you never would serve the country that gave you the liberty to write your posts. You use profanity. And like so many socialists, you choose to attack my faith when you have nothing else to say. Like I said, you exposed yourself. If you have read my posts about the government versus charity, you would not judge my faith. I never said anything about yours or your lack of it, either way. I, dear man, am a board Certified Christian Counselor specializing in PTSD in the military, and board certified Trauma Response Specialist specializing in the military and a lay minister in Prison Ministry for 11 years. All Pro Bono. Why the military? Because our government does not treat veterans with PTSD with the same respect it does a physically disabled vet, although most are both. It is sort of like Agent Orange was. Why Pro Bono? For the same reason. And why Prison? “When I was hungry, you fed Me, when I was cold you clothed Me, when I was in prison you visited me” So, tell me your qualifications to assume you know anything about my faith. Roy’s Baby Girl

          • Eric Bischoff

            Anyone who takes care of veterans has my total respect. Are you familiar with Tapping or EFT as a successful method of helping with PTSD? I also heard of a doctor who teaches a method of getting you body to shake and twitch like a deer in stress as another successful method of helping with PTSD.

            We put people through bootcamp to teach them how to kill. It seems to me we should have a bootcamp for fitting back into society,

            Your faith is your business.

          • Just Me

            Tremor method does not work.And there is more than just Military trauma, There is death, suicide, sexual assault, abuse, natural disaster, etc/ There are treatment protocols that work with PTSD. Exposure is making the client confront the feared objects, situations, images, and things that are associated with the trauma. They do this is a safe protected environment. . It can be repeated over time in a series of interventions. Because he is safe, and you are there with him he replaces his hypervigilance and startle, anxious response with a more relaxed one and this becomes habit over time. Cognitive Behavioral involves working with the modification of beliefs, thoughts and assumptions. It helps reprogram the person to believe that they are safe, they are not guilty of causing the trauma, etc. because they might also be suffering from survivor guilt ie.9/11 They have to face the truth in a safe place and line up thoughts, behaviors and feelings with reality based living. They have had their worldview shattered and you have to help them put it back together in a truthful way, not in the distorted way they have been looking at it. This also involves Tapping. Tapping is a distraction. It helps the client process their memories because they are attending concurrent stimulus while negative cognitions are kept in mind. The brain is just distracted by the tapping or even just finger movements back in forth in front of their eyes (EMDR) so that the brain is actually processing the memories properly basically by itself without the constant memories forefront in the mind. It sounds silly but it works. Then there is the medical side where you refer to a MD. They can use antidepressants, Adrenaline Blockers (PTSD is like being on a adrenaline rush all the time. Adrenaline is the most addictive substance known), Mood Stabilizers which help with mood swings and help prevent the development of bipolar disorder. None of these are addictive. Anti-Anxiety medications are only used as a last resort because they are addictive and the risk of overdose is great because PTSD patients have a habit of self-medication with alcohol. Those are the three major domains used, usually comorbidly. There are other treatments that help if added to the main therapies. One is hypnotherapy and another is group therapy. Group is great because clients can actually bond, begin to believe they are not alone in their pain, they gain support and also feedback from others. It is a painful process because you are asking someone to re-engage the most horrific things in the world and to do it intentionally.. It has to be done so carefully because it can overwhelm them. Even regular intake questions can trigger a episode of anger or flashbacks, or lashing out even at me! It takes empathy (it helps that I have been traumatized myself) good listening skills, creativity and flexibility, to be able to change the approach on a dime. Recovery revolves mostly around HOPE. “And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those that are called according to His purpose” Romans 8:28-30 They have to be reminded they are created in the image of God. They have to be reminded that recovery is possible and that they can come out better and even become counselors to those who are just starting the path they have finished.

            The brain is amazing. It scares me when people say POT is harmless. I have seen SPEC Scans of people’s brains who smoke pot. You know how people say POT makes you mellow and laid back? Well, it is because they are not getting enough blood flow to the prefrontal cortex of the brain. And if you look at the bottom of the brain, it actually eats holes in the matter. You don’t want to know what cocaine and meth and alcohol do.

            Now with a SPEC scan, we can actually diagnose PTSD because it make a special pattern in the blood flow, like a diamond shape. So when having a suspicion of PTSD diagnosis, that’s when you refer to an MD for a SPEC scan. With Obamacare, people are not going to be diagnosed because SPEC scans are not approved!

            Well, you asked and I answered. Actually, bootcamp is not to teach people how to kill, it is to teach people how to work as a unit, as one person. People already know how to kill, Man is intrinsically selfish and capable of great evil with a proclivity for good. And yes, we do need help fitting military back into society, If someone volunteers to put their life on the line, the least we can do is help them get their life back. But don’t count on the VA to do it. Look to churches and church based therapists.

            And yes, my faith is my business, but Jesus also gave us the Great Commission and that was the command to spread the Gospel. Our wonderful founders knew this and that is why they put no restrictions on practicing faith. Or not. Just remember, eternity is one heartbeat away. Just one and then your decision has been made for you.

            Have a nice week.
            Roy’s Baby Girl

          • Just Me

            And Eric, you may think we all one, but the fanatical Islamists don’t. They want to cut off your head. You may not be at war with them but they are are at war with you!

          • Eric Bischoff

            We are one and we will not make progress until we get that.

            Yes and we have a few fanatics here who shoot people or blow things up as well. Then we have the drone murdering spree.

            Don’t you think it’s time to get out. What are we doing there? What gives us the right to invade, occupy, bomb other countries, covet their resources? Bin Laden told us what they wanted but we wouldn’t listen. Get your troops out of the middle east.

            And then there’s who started this?

            1M Iraqis dead, 4M Iraqi refugees and for what? Is that the only way we know of to get rid of a puppet dictator who no longer does what we tell him to do?

            I suppose you think Iran are the bad guys too!

          • Just Me

            I think we did the right thing in Iraq. I think we left too early, as Iran is taking the country over with fanatical Sharia Islam. We were making progress making a democracy and the people wanted that but we left too early. I don’t believe in drones abroad or here. To many civilians get killed there and too much Big Brother here.
            Iran has stated they want to kill us and Israel, not in that order. They are trying to get nukes. Just what I always said during the Cold War. We won’t have a war between the Superpowers but a total destruction of earth from a crazy fanatical regime like N. Korea or Iran. They want to die, it is part of their cult. There is honor in it and they get their 47 virgins. They mistreat women, gays, Christians, or any other religion and kill their own people who try to make change. Obama should never have sent anybody else to Afghanistan. He hated the surge, he said, then he did one. Nobody else should die there.It is a quagmire. We should be using our troops to guard our border to keep out the influx of drugs, illegals and terrorists. It was Obama who wanted to go to Syria and get involved in their civil war. Now he has again illegally waived the Constitution and decided that it is not treason to give aid and comfort to the enemy, all on his own, which is illegal. He is not King. He did it so he could send arms to the rebels who are linked to the Muslim Brotherhood, terrorists. After he knew that the American people did not want it and that Congress was not going to give him war powers. He has a problem with the word no. He wants to get involved in Libya now. I to think that we have a puppet dictator and some evil people are pulling his strings.

          • Eric Bischoff

            I am sorry you seem like a nice person and your heart is in the right place but I think you are a little off on foreign policy. You’re not getting the right information from the right sources.

          • Just Me

            And the right sources are who??????

        • Vis Fac

          Well Eric My indoctrination comes from The Declaration of Independence The United States Constitution and the Bill of rights. I know where “YOUR ” indoctrination came from the Communist Manifesto.
          As a professional mechanical/electrical/structural engineer there is very little I haven’t been exposed to or understand so I NEVER assume anything.
          I enlisted because as a “legal” immigrant I felt I owed my adopted country not only my loyalty but my service as well.
          You being hopelessly dependent puke would never put yourself out to earn anything you get. You are a parasite that leeches off others.
          Being a Marine has conditions attached. You remain Always Faithful (Semper Fidelis) to your country and comrades. We would never seek our or entertain admitting wise/candy a$$e$ like you among our ranks for we would not want to waste valuable resources to “indoctrinate” you on a daily basis.
          Your indoctrination tells you that under socialism you are going to get a piece of the pie taken from me and those like me. I hate to be the bearer of bad news but with Socialism somebody will indeed get something but that somebody will NOT be you!!

          To sit back hoping that someday, some way, someone will make things right is to go on feeding the wolf hoping he will eat you last – but eat you he will.

          You don’t have to be a Marine to make a difference the only requirement is being truly patriotic and the willingness to back it up!!!

          Libertas inaestimabilis res est
          Semper-Fi

        • Just Me

          Of course, we should have let the Nazis just keep killing off the rest of the Jewish people and expanding and murdering everywhere they went. Not one instance where war was the right answer? Do you know anything about the concentration camps? Should there have been no war to liberate those people? Just that one sentence in your post shows what kind of person you are. And as to Force Recon, how dare you insult a person that has fought to keep you free to enjoy the greatest country ever known? Just because you are a coward, not everyone is. Hoorah!

      • Just Me

        I totally agree with everything you have said. Only wish I had said it! Thanks so much for the post.

        • Vis Fac

          Please feel free to copy and use to ask others. Maybe we can get a few of these liberal zombies to think and observe reality and maybe change a little ODUMBOCARE has given the liberals a negative image of their platform I hope it’s enough to get people to think in next years elections.

          To sit back hoping that someday, some way, someone will make things right is to go on feeding the wolf hoping he will eat you last – but eat you he will.

          You don’t have to be a Marine to make a difference the only requirement is being truly patriotic and the willingness to back it up!!!

          Libertas inaestimabilis res est
          Semper-Fi

          • Just Me

            Thanks, I will. I agree that quite a few liberals are realizing the mistake they made. When I hear someone say, “I knew that someone was going to have to pay for Obamacare, I didn’t think they meant me!” If they knew even a little history they would have known that their masters were using them to gain power, not just over their enemies, but over them, too. They don’t differentiate between their supporters (unless they have donated big money) and their detractors when it comes to slaves and serfs. Everyone becomes part of the collective and it all applies to everyone, even them!

          • Vis Fac

            Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. Far too many people are indeed envious and ignore the misery. With socialism somebody is going to get something but that somebody will not be them it will be the elitists who will be getting all the spoils.

            To sit back hoping that someday, some way, someone will make things right is to go on feeding the wolf hoping he will eat you last – but eat you he will.

            You don’t have to be a Marine to make a difference the only requirement is being truly patriotic and the willingness to back it up!!!

            Libertas inaestimabilis res est
            Semper-Fi

  • ONLYJB1

    I’ll stick my neck out and say we have roughly 18 to 24 months before implosion. The truth will come out! This progressive / communist administration can’t continue to hide this truth behind their lies!

    • Vis Fac

      Unless people wake up BEFORE November 2014. If they do we have an even chance at righting OUR ship!

      To sit back hoping that someday, some way, someone will make things right is to go on feeding the wolf hoping he will eat you last – but eat you he will.

      You don’t have to be a Marine to make a difference the only requirement is being truly patriotic and the willingness to back it up!!!

      Libertas inaestimabilis res est
      Semper-Fi

      • TheOriginalDaveH

        I don’t think so, Force, unless they put Politicians in office who will dramatically cut back Government, and I doubt that. At this point, our only hope for recovery will be a dramatic awakening to the concepts of Freedom by the people, and I don’t see that happening.

        • Vis Fac

          That is why I implied the caveat “wake up” If people don’t we have no chance then the chips will fall where they may. Either way I have pretty much lived off the grid and am prepared I hope you are!

          To sit back hoping that someday, some way, someone will make things right is to go on feeding the wolf hoping he will eat you last – but eat you he will.

          You don’t have to be a Marine to make a difference the only requirement is being truly patriotic and the willingness to back it up!!!

          Libertas inaestimabilis res est
          Semper-Fi

  • mark

    Ah yes, the End of Days are upon us. Buy more guns, ammo, dried food, and move down into a cave. I have been hearing this stuff since I was a little kid nearly 50 years ago. It is always going to happen for sure but just never does. Well at least it gives frightened, paranoid people something to do.

    • Stuart Shepherd

      We could only wish you actually HAD moved into a cave 50 years ago! Must be your intellectual superiority that entitles you to arrogantly dismiss well presented and substantiated facts without presenting a single one of your own! Just couldn’t resist ignoring something and reading the Huffington Post or something if it didn’t “speak to you,” huh? Why did you ever read past the first line when it was obvious and stated what the subject was? Somehow we’re supposed to value your opinion- just because it’s YOU, of course! Pathetic.

      • TheOriginalDaveH

        Well done, Stuart.

      • Bill

        Liberalism is a mental disorder, so it is not Mark’s fault. He is a victim and he needs to get signed up for Obamacare as soon as possible so he can get his meds

    • Sam

      I have eyes and I can SEE what happening. I pay attention to the economy. Most of all, I know that a Muslim Marxist is our president and I know what he believes in. It ain’t good.

      • KG

        That people deserve respect instead of corporations? That people are more important than profits? That I am my ‘brothers keeper?’ What’s NOT good about these things?

        • buckeyeman

          Be your brothers’ keeper if you want, just don’t force me to do so. So Obamacare screws up EVERYONE’s insurance so your type can redistribute it the way YOU want. Your kind of “philanthropy” always ends badly.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Don’t mind KGB. He’s just a Commie Unionist who thinks the world owes him a living.

          • Bill

            Hi Buck,
            KGs idea of being your brothers keeper is to have the government steal your money at gun point and give it to non producers,
            There is a big difference between people helping people and the government helping people

          • Vis Fac

            KGB is a Communist and a Socialist with these dogmas somebody will get something unfortunately that somebody will NOT be KGB. He is merely a pawn used by the socialist elite as a means to an end.

            To sit back hoping that someday, some way, someone will make things right is to go on feeding the wolf hoping he will eat you last – but eat you he will.

            You don’t have to be a Marine to make a difference the only requirement is being truly patriotic and the willingness to back it up!!!

            Libertas inaestimabilis res est
            Semper-Fi

        • TheOriginalDaveH

          Corporations are people, Cagey. If money isn’t important to you, Cagey, why are you always lusting after other people’s money?

          • Eric Bischoff

            You see Dave is showing his true colors. He loves money more than anything else in the world. His entire focus is on acquiring money and keeping money. Driven by greed and calling it freedom. Shame on you.

            Corporations are not people. Corporations do not go to jail for committing crimes not even murder. They are slapped with fines which often they don’t pay as they keep appealing until they find a friendly judge.

            Money is important as a tool but it should not rise above and be revered above people. People and the earth first then Profits. That’s our future.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Which is “greedier”, Eric, my wanting to keep my own hard-earned money, or you wanting to help yourself to spending my hard-earned money?
            Corporations are people, Eric. They are groups of people who band together to employ their money and talents to hopefully earn a return on their money and talents, although there is no guarantee of that. And members of those Corporations can, and do, go to jail.
            No doubt some members of corporations, especially Crony Capitalists, get away with crimes, just as some members of Society get away with crimes. If you spot them getting away with a crime, Erik, let us know.
            Meanwhile, Erik and his crew punish everybody by saddling all of us with unnecessary regulatory hoops to jump through whether we have committed a crime or not. Then when the Economy naturally declines as a result of those regulations, Erik and his ilk falsely blame that decline on lack of regulation and insist on even more:
            http://www.scribd.com/doc/144210931/Wayne-Crews-Ten-Thousand-Commandments-An-Annual-Snapshot-of-the-Federal-Regulatory-State-2013
            The result of ignorant people swallowing the Propaganda, as promoted by people like Erik, is that a relative handful of Society (the real 1 percenters) get to live high on the rest of our backs:
            http://mises.org/daily/5776/The-State-is-the-1-Percent

            Eric says — “Money is important as a tool but it should not rise above and be revered above people”.
            Then why do you “revere” other people’s money, Eric, and lust after it so? Don’t posture as “compassionate”, Eric, when we all know you are just a Thief.

          • Eric Bischoff

            Cut the crap Dave,

            I never once advocated taking anything from anyone. The whole point of a democratic framework is that we agree to have government as our founding fathers did. Then we vote on what we are willing to do with our collective power and resources.

            You like to use overly simplified answers that hardly ever paint the reality. Reality is greedy people continue to manage to take charge and they are the ones who covet our resources, our commons and not even pay a fair price for them , then they have workers do things with these resources but they have no power so they do it for less than a fair living wage or else and then the badly paid workers pay their taxes but their bosses usually don’t because they can afford lawyers and accountants. Then you have people who have multiple jobs at minimum wage who can’t afford to live and need food stamps otherwise their kids will starve. Who’s responsible here. Some will call them deadbeats. I will blame the crooks who are getting away with taking advantage of these people and making profits by not paying them a fair living wage. For what so they can sell more cheap junk and make more profits.

            Yes I think like a Social Democrat and I am proud of it. People first then profits.

            Corprations started out with limited charters and these charters could be revoked. That si not the case today. Corporations are now more powerful that the countries they wish to operate in and sell products and services to. They control State Laws through ALEC and soon they will overide Federal laws and Sovereignty through the TPP.

            So really you are the one taking from others!

            Isn’t it amazing how the discussion often has us believing that the private sector is the best and the govt is the worst at getting things done.

            Apple, Google, Facebook. Isnt it amazing how most if not all of these companies are American creations!

            Eroneously people think the state’s role is only as the market fixer when the private sector fails massively, when actually the State is the market shaper.

            What is the secret behind the Silcon Valley VC model? The technology that makes the smartphone possible are all govt funded programs. MicroChips, Cellular Communication, GPS, the Internet, Touch Screen, SIRI

            Or even if you look at all of the meaningful new drugs, 75% are funded by the govt’s NIH.

            The problem is that govt does not benefit accordingly. Not even in tax revenues as the companies that profit the most escape paying taxes.

            We should retain equity like other nations do. Other nations benefitted handsomely in their investments. The US hasn’t. That is us the preople funding development and then not profitting in part when we buy that technology.

            Watch Mariana Mazzucato on TED Talks

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            You “cut the crap”, Eric. You are a Socialist Progressive, and Socialists can’t survive without taking wealth from other people.
            We aren’t a Democracy, Eric, no matter how hard you try to Propagandize people to believe that. We are a Republic, which was designed to keep the raw majority from running over the rights of the minority. And we aren’t a “collective”, yet. When we do become one, it will fail as they always do, because people don’t want to produce things that non-producers get to use. So the producers become unproductive which results in far fewer goods and services, and more poverty as a result.

            Eric says — “Reality is greedy people continue to manage to take charge and they are the ones who covet our resources, our commons and not even pay a fair price for them , then they have workers do things with these resources but they have no power so they do it for less than a fair living wage or else and then the badly paid workers pay their taxes but their bosses usually don’t because they can afford lawyers and accountants”.
            That’s funny, because Eric the Red has pretty much described how it would be under his advocated Communism where a handful of Leaders and their Pals live high on everybody else’s shoulders. Can you spell “Nomenklatura”?
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nomenklatura

            Eric says — “Yes I think like a Social Democrat and I am proud of it. People first then profits”.
            Yeah, people first, because if Eric and his cohorts can’t pick people’s pockets first, whose pockets are they going to pick?

            Eric says — “So really you are the one taking from others!”.
            Yeah, I can see Eric the bank robber now, explaining to the cops how the banks and their depositors didn’t really earn that money, so it’s okay for him to relieve them of it.

            It amazes me that there are people like Eric who berate Private Corporations as being Evil, when in fact they can’t make anybody buy their products, but then have no problem putting the Power of Force into the hands of Government Officials whose worst punishment is being voted out of office 2, 4, or 6 years later.
            Oh right, Government isn’t Evil at all. For those who would better like to understand people like Eric and those he wants to put in charge of our lives:
            http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/05/beware-the-psychopath-my-son/

          • Eric Bischoff

            I can’t believe how limited you are in your thinking. Are you sure you’re not Joe McCarthy reincarnated. The reds are coming. Except he was just mean and full of crap and a big waste of time.

            I know it’s hard for you to mage two opposing viewpoints at the same time but try Dave.

            I am not for Big Govt especially when taken over by businesses and the 1%.

            And I am not for too big to fail corporations who think they should be free to pollute, cheat, steal, and also expect military protection for their adventures on foreign soil.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            History has proven that Joe McCarthy was correct.
            Yes, Eric, you are for Big Government. You advocate Communism which can’t exist without the Force of Big Government, because people like to keep what they worked hard for.
            It seems all we get from you, Eric, is generalized Progressive talking points. There are corporations who cheat, just as there are individuals who cheat.
            But few of them would rationalize their cheating behavior when caught red-handed, like you do, Eric.

          • Just Me

            Why don’t you go live in those other countries, Eric. I am so sick of people like you whining and complaining about our wonderful country that is the only one like it that has ever existed on this earth. We were blessed by God until we threw him out and then turned our back on Him. By people like you. Go live in one of your socialist utopias and you will quickly find out there is no such thing. Why is it that even though socialism and communism fail over and over, people think it work if only “THEY” do it, because “THEY” will get it right. Never works though. Nobody said this country does not have it’s problems, but it is the best country in the world. Stop trying to make it into the image of a dictatorship and go live in one that already exists. I am sure you will be right back, trying to cross the border with all the illegal aliens. I don’t see them trying to get out, do you?

          • Vigilant

            Ah, Eric Bischoff’s usual leftist palaver.

            “He loves money more than anything else in the world. His entire focus is on acquiring money and keeping money.” Unless and until the Constitution is changed, there is no law against that.

            Do you advocate amending the Constitution?

          • Eric Bischoff

            Absolutely. It’s long overdue. And I would start with Corporations are not people. They are an excuse to do bad things and not have to take responsibility for it.

          • Vigilant

            “They are an excuse to do bad things and not have to take responsibility for it.”

            Sounds like you’re talking about the Obama administration.

          • Just Me

            Bingo! “YOU CAN KEEP YOUR INSURANCE IF YOU LIKE YOUR INSURANCE< YOU CAN KEEP YOUR DOCTOR IF YOU LIKE YOUR DOCTOR, PERIOD!!! Oh, I never said that. Even though we have seen him on video at least 29 times and how many more times did he say it in speeches that are not taped? Gee, he LIED and he does not have to take responsibility for it. SOUND FAMILIAR< ERIC?

          • Just Me

            I don’t think that is in the Constitution, Eric. Pick one up, will ya? And what else would you change, Eric? Maybe the 2nd amendment or the 4th or how about the 10th. Of course I am sure you would want to keep YOUR free speech, while denying others and YOUR free press, the government lapdogs, but of course religion would be out. Do you think we have not heard from fools like you before? Again, go to some communist utopia and live. Be a collective worker, And you will find out you are at the bottom, in poverty, while your masters live high on your labor. I would rather die on my feet defending my freedom than live on my knees as a slave to the state.

          • Eric Bischoff

            Here we go! another person AFRAID of things he does not understand.

          • Just Me

            How do you know I am a he, Eric? Who is assuming now? I know that am not afraid of you! I understand you perfectly. A coward who would never serve the country that gave the liberties to be able to even write the post. Go to one of your communist/socialist states and try and talk about the government. See how free you are there.
            Now, I am really curious about why you assume I am a he? Hoorah! God Bless America!

          • Eric Bischoff

            My apologies. I ASSumed since you sounded to me like a man in your nasty attacks. Now I know you are more androgynous.

            I guess there are still a lot of people who spew out that my country love it or leave it crap we heard in the 60s when we were against the Viet Nam war.

            I was born a free person. My liberty has nothing to do with this country. I choose. If things get any weirder here, I may choose to live somewhere else. But that will be my decision.

          • Just Me

            Hoorah! Are you afraid of a little handicapped woman, Eric? Nasty? You are the one who uses profanity. So it seems the truth hurts, does it not? You assume my MAN served in Vietnam. WRONG AGAIN. My MAN volunteered and was not drafted. He was in the most decorated unit in the United States Army, the 3rd Infantry Division. He has more ribbons than you can count, plus a bronze knot and a bronze star. The 3rd Infantry are the guards of the Tomb of The Unknown Soldier, someone who died for your liberty. He served on foreign soil (don’t assume the Middle East!). He gave part of his life and almosts his LIFE for your liberty. This country has everything to do with your liberty. So many people died to give you that gift. Jesus gave you the liberty of eternity, God gave you your rights, but men and women fought and gave their lives for your liberties in this country. Go to North Korea and starve and live behind a wire fence. Go to China where they abort 9 month in the womb babies. Go to Iran where they stone gays, beat women who have been raped, behead you for your faith. Go to Germany and talk to people who have lived behind the Berlin Wall. Go to England where the NHS lets people die before they can even see a doctor. Go to Canada and realize they don’ have a Constitution and they can just break in your house without a warrant. Go to Mexico and live in poverty and squalor. They are not pouring over our borders for nothing. EVEN OUR POOR are richer than most people in this world. 5 billion people don’t have electricity. Some places in Africa (told to me by a British soldier) they grind grain between two rocks because they have never seen a wheel. Our poor have cell phones, computers, TV’s, electricity, heat, beds, food. We are the most generous nation in the world. We need to be the most generous charitable people, though, not give our money to the government so they can waste most of it before it even gets to where it is needed. AND YES, my MAN fought for YOU. So Love it or Leave it. THe government picks our pockets to give our money to countries that HATE US! And to ARM people who want to kill us! You were born a free person because you were born here. You can practice your faith freely or not at all because you are here! So don’t give me any garbage about how stupid Patriotism is, or how men and women who have defended your life and liberty are fools. My husband is no fool. And you dishonor the memory of all the people who died for you. And if you want to leave? Go ahead. But be aware that other countries don’t have open borders like we do. Try and live in Mexico! HA! They will throw you in jail and throw away the key. So, stop defaming our COUNTRY! And stop trying defend the lies the government is telling you. You seem to be more intelligent than that. Roy’s Baby Girl

          • Eric Bischoff

            Profanity? Where?

            I didn’t assume anything about your man. I equated the Love it or Leave it attitude to the old Viet Nam days. Who ended being right? Was that war worth it? Which side were you on then?

            Sounds like your man was a brave one, and I have just as much respect for my friend who chose to go to jail and be abused as a conscious objector who refused to go to Viet Nam.

            I am sorry but that is your view of the world and mine is different.

          • Just Me

            Sorry, I was 3 or 4 years old. Kinda hard to have an opinion.

          • Just Me

            And my husband was not a brave one, he IS a brave one!

          • Charlie

            Doggie ,,, what Constitution ?? Your so called government is NOT going by The Organic Constitution, nor by The Holy Bible ,,, so , what laws are Your so called government going by ??? could it be “”Martial Law Rule””?? OR ?? Heathenism ?? OR?? U S A Inc. is going to tax your barking at the Moon next………………………

          • Vigilant

            Absolutely unrelated to the topic. Pssst! Your hatred is showing, Chuckles.

          • Bob666

            Yo Vigilant,
            Have you noticed a bit of a change in Cuuckles in the last few weeks? Maybe a bit antagonistic ?

          • Vigilant

            Indeed, Bob, for one who never ceases quoting scripture, he’s becoming less of a Christian with each passing day.

            No doubt he’s still pissed off about me telling him to “give it a rest” after one of his litanies a few weeks ago.

          • Bob666

            Yea, I noticed that as well. When he first came on the site, he was nice, but persistent. Now he is just an obviously frustrated ass with bad interpersonal skills.

          • Charlie

            YO YO ,,, is that the new YO YO , now Yea??? Can you teach the basic psychology of personality clash ???
            Meanwhile … Praise King Jesus for Salvation and Healing… Acts 2:38 is salvation …

          • Just Me

            I don’t know you Charlie, but you surely are not a Christian. I am ashamed that you would even quote the Bible. How sad.

          • Charlie

            Just Me ,,, you are certainly entitled to your “Opinion” ,,, BUT ,,, opinions are like cats ,,, all , just a little different …
            Have you accomplished Acts 2:38 per The Bible and per The Laws in The Bible …

          • Charlie

            YO YO ,,, notice , no answer from the doggie ,,, why don’t you answer for him ? Meanwhile … Praise King Jesus for Salvation and Healing … Acts 2:38 …

          • Just Me

            What the heck are you talking about? He said nothing of the kind. Corporations are made up of people. A long time ago, in a far away land called America, I was the vice-president and CFO of a two person corporation. 2 people. Most corporations or LLC’s as they call them now, are small business’. And even big business employs people. People who work hard and get paid for it and then deserve to take the money they have earned and do with it what they will. And all of the people I know would even help you, Eric, if you needed it. It is not the governments job to take our money and give it to someone else. It is our job. You are silly. Now you can swear at me too!

          • TML

            “Corporations are people”

            Never understood that comment from Romney. Corporations are made up of people, people run corporations, but to say they ‘are’ people doesn’t make much sense and leads to several notions of corporate greed. Which sounds strange coming from you, Dave, since you always decry Big Government dealing with Corporate Crony Capitalists. The first impression of saying Corporations are people seems in support of that view. *shrugs*

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Corporations are people, TML, strange as you think that is. When you join a group, you don’t somehow become less than a person. Every right we have as individual people is a right we have as groups of individual people, unless we voluntarily give up that right.
            I have never used the phrase “Corporate Crony Capitalists”, TML, but then that kind of claim is to be expected from you since you usually do put words in my mouth.
            Crony Capitalists are those people (or groups of people) who use Government to give themselves special privileges that their competitors don’t have. And yes, their competitors are people also.

          • TML

            I get what you’re saying and agree that every right we have as individuals does not go away when being part of a corporation, but, corporations are only run by people. A corporation is not a person Dave.

            A corporation is taxed separately from the individual people that run it, and there is even the ability to become incorporated to avoid lawsuits on individuals that run that corporation. Crony Capitalists, Corporate Crony Capitalists… vague difference to claim I’m putting words in your mouth. As you just pointed out, corporations are often used to gain special privileges, and leads to the ideas that corporations may rightfully use their money – as collective people – to sway government elections and policy.

            The inherent contradiction in your position is expected I suppose. Not too big a of a deal though, call corporations people all you like.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            You are arguing semantics, TML. And you’re boring me. In fact, your comments usually bore me because they are usually repetitive and naive.
            Remember that Corporations are a legal distinction established by the same Big Government that you advocate. But that doesn’t negate the fact that they are collections of people who have every right to speak freely or contribute to the candidate of their choice as any other individual has.
            Even the Supreme Court ruled that to be the case — whatever that’s worth.
            Just out of curiosity, TML, do you also conclude that Unions are not people?

          • TML

            Dave says, “You are arguing semantics, TML.”

            Kind of, but then, saying “corporations are people” sounds rather semantic itself.

            Dave says, “And you’re boring me. In fact, your comments usually bore me because they are repetitive and usually naive.”

            Says the boy who can barely articulate his own arguments without a Mises link, or spewing personal insults.

            Dave says,”Remember that Corporations are a legal distinction established by the same Big Government that you advocate.”

            I’m for big government? LoL! Talk about putting words in someone’s mouth.
            Corporations are legally distinct, as I just described, hence my position against them being considered ‘people’.

            Dave says, “But that doesn’t negate the fact that they are collections of people who have every right to speak freely or contribute to the candidate of their choice as any other individual has.”

            Yes, yes they do; individually… but I disagree with their ability to use corporate money to do it.

            Dave says, ”Even the Supreme Court ruled that to be the case — whatever that’s worth.”

            Not worth much to me.

            Anyway, you are indeed quite boring. It’s hard enough for people to get around your weak tactic of ad hominem that you constantly spew, to have any real discussion, that you seem incapable of anyway.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            TML says — “Says the boy who can barely articulate his own arguments without a Mises link”.
            Argumentum ad Hominem. What I typically expect from TML.

            TML says — “I’m for big government? LoL! Talk about putting words in someone’s mouth”.
            This coming from the guy who has argued ad nauseum for the United Nations which is an organization of people unelected by the people, and was created By Leaders For Leaders.

          • TML

            LOL! The Pot calling the kettle black

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Well, hello Mr. Pot.
            Oh look, TML, I added to my comment. Now you have something else to whine about (after you take your binky out of your mouth).

          • TML

            Typical of you to try and blame others of what you are guilty of Dave. You’re like a child. Later

          • TML

            No, I’ve argued for principles of international law.
            I guess for a guy who advocates and has argued for total anarchy on numerous occasions, anything else is big government.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            TML — the great equivocator.
            Who would administer and create international law if not Big Government?
            You see, TML, this is what I mean about you. You will euphemize, double-speak, or whatever obfuscation you can use to push your biased point of view. It’s boring to debate with you. It’s like arguing with a 5 year old.

          • TML

            Dude, you have no clue how to debate.

            And there’s no double-speaking in arguing for the principles of international law (e.g. preemptive wars of aggression, interventions, etc.). But such charge is what I would expect from an anarchist who apparently wants large corporation to be considered a person. Talk about obfuscation.

            Bye, bye, now…

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Argumentum ad hominem.
            What else from the Legend (in his own mind) TML?

          • TML

            I’m completely against Unions, so that’s irrelevant.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            That isn’t what I asked. But it doesn’t surprise me that you evaded the question.

          • TML

            Well, yes, Unions are made up of people. But as I said, I’m against Unions. Relevance?

          • KG

            That’s where you get it all wrong. People like you seem to think that everybody want’s what you have and that’s not true. Sure, I would like to have a Mercedes Benz, but I don’t want one. I just want a decent truck to get back and forth from work. Living in a mansion with an upstairs and downstairs maid would be nice, but I don’t want or need that. I just want to be able to live a good life and provide a good life for my family. And you “got to have a car in this land of milk and honey, Cause it’s all about Money, aint a damn thing funny.” (cudos to Grand Master Flash)

            The worse thing for Capitalism is ‘idle wealth’. Money that just sits there and doesn’t do anything other than feed the ego of the possessor. To have any kind of economy, money must get to the bottom. If I give $100 to Bill Gates, what is he going to do with it? But if I give $100 to a homeless person, he will SPEND IT. That what makes an economy go.

        • Bill

          That all sounds good if you are a communist, Kg.
          Profits are what makes the world go round. You are always trying to push your communism, but communism fails because people have no incentive to produce without the benefit of profit. Everything you have now is from someone making a profit

        • Charlie

          KG ,,, what can you tell your “brothers” for “Salvation” ???

        • Just Me

          I am a Christian and I am my brother’s keeper. Because God ordained it not the government. Just as God ordained our rights, not the government. Be a cheerful giver and give what you are able, Don’t be a fool and let the government take if from you after they lie to you and then keep it to take fancy vacations, etc. A dollar handed to a hungry man is a dollar. A dollar handed to the government is 1 penny for the hungry man. Better yet, hand the hungry man a sandwich and give him a job to do for you so he does not feel like a leech and a burden. Have done it many times and the other person feels so much better about themselves, for they earned what they were given, not handed it for “free” out of someone elses’ pocket. Who ever said that conservatives were not charitable. The Christian churches are the most charitable institutions in the country. We don’t have much but we leave food on people’s porches and we leave a Christmas bag on people’s porches so they have something to eat to celebrate Christ’s birth. It is not about giving it to government to hand out for you! What a maroon!

    • KG

      Ive already lived through at least 3 to 4 end of the world conditions. I have gotten used to it. For all of you ‘survivalist’ AKA ‘preppers’, remember there will always be more humans than bullets. The LAST thing to do in a disaster is to make enemies by being selfish and self-centered. Did we learn anything form history? It’s only together that we can get through any kind of disaster.

      • TheOriginalDaveH

        And there will always be self-centered people like KGB, who believe you owe them a ride on your back. Be prepared.

        • Vigilant

          …and they will be in the hordes that overrun this nation in case of disaster.

          • Vis Fac

            Do you mean in those “safe gun free zones” in the urban areas?

            To sit back hoping that someday, some way, someone will make things right is to go on feeding the wolf hoping he will eat you last – but eat you he will.

            You don’t have to be a Marine to make a difference the only requirement is being truly patriotic and the willingness to back it up!!!

            Libertas inaestimabilis res est
            Semper-Fi

          • JeffH

            …and a very good reason to “horde” guns and ammo…

      • Vis Fac

        Well KGB Let’s do a little recollection of past conversations. First you claimed to be a UNION retiree Then you told me your Old Man was a Recon Marine in Vietnam that used to beat you up then said you were born in 1948 Then you said you retired in 1984.

        Using your analogy since you were said you were born in 1948 that would make you nearly the same age as your “Old Man” Now in 1984 that would make you about 25 when you supposedly retired from the UNION a little while later you said you were wheelchair bound and that you don’t work.

        Let me ask this since all these scenarios cannot possibly be correct which if any of the three are? My guess you are a government de[pendent touting the virtues of socialism because you are a complete and utter failure. THEREFORE you have ZERO CREDIBILITY here.

        One more thing, Just because something has never happened does not mean it never will. I recall reading the WWI was the war to end all wars and there will never be another World War. Guess what they were wrong. They also said man would never go faster than 60 MPH or that man would never set foot on the moon. Well guess what all have come to fruition So if you don’t want to prepare that is YOUR business, just don’t go mooching for a handout when you have nothing.

        To sit back hoping that someday, some way, someone will make things right is to go on feeding the wolf hoping he will eat you last – but eat you he will.

        You don’t have to be a Marine to make a difference the only requirement is being truly patriotic and the willingness to back it up!!!

        Libertas inaestimabilis res est
        Semper-Fi

        • TheOriginalDaveH

          Cagey is likely a Shill, Force. Probably one of these:
          http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/52923

          • Vis Fac

            I know I just like letting them know they aren’t fooling anyone. I am relentless and never back down when they are on the run. I see it as rather like chasing and eliminating disease ridden vermin from society one rat at a time !!!

            To sit back hoping that someday, some way, someone will make things right is to go on feeding the wolf hoping he will eat you last – but eat you he will.

            You don’t have to be a Marine to make a difference the only requirement is being truly patriotic and the willingness to back it up!!!

            Libertas inaestimabilis res est
            Semper-Fi

          • Vis Fac

            I know I just like letting them know they aren’t fooling anyone. I am relentless and never back down when they are on the run. I see it as rather like chasing and eliminating disease ridden vermin from society one rat at a time !!!

            To sit back hoping that someday, some way, someone will make things right is to go on feeding the wolf hoping he will eat you last – but eat you he will.

            You don’t have to be a Marine to make a difference the only requirement is being truly patriotic and the willingness to back it up!!!

            Libertas inaestimabilis res est
            Semper-Fi

        • independent thinker

          Given his propensity for prevarication exaggeration, and obfuscation perhaps we should rename him Krinineller Gruppe.

          • Vis Fac

            Ich nehme an kriminellen Gruppe ist apropos, wie er Anspruch hat eine Union Fan so Havine mehr als eine ihm wäre sicherlich kriminellen gegenüber der Gesellschaft

            Loosely translated:I suppose criminal group is apropos as he does claim to be a union supporter. So having more than one of him would certainly be criminal towards society

            To sit back hoping that someday, some way, someone will make things right is to go on feeding the wolf hoping he will eat you last – but eat you he will.

            You don’t have to be a Marine to make a difference the only requirement is being truly patriotic and the willingness to back it up!!!

            Libertas inaestimabilis res est
            Semper-Fi

        • KG

          Your comments have been noted and forwarded to the NSA. I suggest that you remove any inflammable object from windows and be very nice to the men dressed in black.

          • Charlie

            KG ,,, ha ha ha ha ,,, agent provocateur ,., be careful , you are being watched by a double agent , that will sell out to the highest bidder “”Mercenary””… Also no shop Steward will be there to protect you …………………………

          • Vis Fac

            KGB you are a piece of work. To suggest that you the perpetual LOSER have forward comments on an insignificant internet thread to the NSA is laughable.

            This coming from a communist who is continually beat down by lucid and logical debate which on your part is merely a shallow attempt to save your pathetic face from all the lies we all know continue to tell.

            KGB you are a little boy who got whupped and have now run to your mommie for protection.

            Like I said to you earlier If you want to run with the big dogs expect to get bit. If you don’t want to get bitten then stay away.

            To sit back hoping that someday, some way, someone will make things right is to go on feeding the wolf hoping he will eat you last – but eat you he will.

            You don’t have to be a Marine to make a difference the only requirement is being truly patriotic and the willingness to back it up!!!

            Libertas inaestimabilis res est
            Semper-Fi

          • KG

            Who said I was ever beat down? How could you possibly know my actual condition? How do I know you are not some 12 year old punk?

            “Retreat? He77, we just got here!”

          • Vis Fac

            KGB even a 12 year old punk could beat you down. Besides you know very well who and what I am not to mention my capabilities. You even had to cry to your mommie and “report me to the NSA” or did you forget?

            Yeah KGB I’ve got your number and I OWN you. Just like I OWN rbrooks ALEX in La La Land ETAL

            To sit back hoping that someday, some way, someone will make things right is to go on feeding the wolf hoping he will eat you last – but eat you he will.

            You don’t have to be a Marine to make a difference the only requirement is being truly patriotic and the willingness to back it up!!!

            Libertas inaestimabilis res est
            Semper-Fi

          • Vis Fac

            Really now? You’d do that? I suppose that’s what IMPOTENT Socialist/Communist lackeys do. Not that it would make any difference but to think I’ve pushed you over the edge is quite gratifying. Since I’ve caught you in so many lies you have gone and cried to your mommie.

            If you want to run with the big dogs you can expect to get bitten especially when you propagandize for the communist party.

            To sit back hoping that someday, some way, someone will make things right is to go on feeding the wolf hoping he will eat you last – but eat you he will.

            You don’t have to be a Marine to make a difference the only requirement is being truly patriotic and the willingness to back it up!!!

            Libertas inaestimabilis res est
            Semper-Fi

        • Just Me

          “THEY” also said that nobody would ever need or own a personal computer and that nobody would ever write another symphony. They have said a lot of things would never happen. Like didn’t they say that we would never forget what the Nazi’s did? Or how about we will never forget 9/11? Yet we support countries that commit genocide and we give arms to the people who committed 9/11. Are WE not committing genocide when we have killed millions and millions of babies in the name of choice, the majority of them being dark-skinned Americans? Do you think the majority of the people in America in 1791 would ever have thought that we would be killing our own children in the name of the brilliant Constitution they wrote? Nothing is impossible, especially with satan roaming the earth like a hungry lion, waiting to devour us? he is the one who blinds the LIberals and Progressives and Socialists and Comminists (hey, notice how that progression goes?) to the evil that exists in this country let alone other countries. Sometimes I think we deserve what we get. So sad, Jesus weeps.

      • Vigilant

        “The LAST thing to do in a disaster is to make enemies by being selfish and self-centered.” Tell that to the hordes of killers and rapists that will pillage the countryside when the balloon goes up. You might want to take a look at “One Second After.” Will you go out with a bang or a whimper, KG?

        Only a communist could define protection of your family as “selfish and self-centered.”

        “Did we learn anything form [sic] history? It’s only together that we can get through any kind of disaster.”

        Obviously, KG took the wrong lessons from history, and will therefore be condemned to re-live it.

        • Nadzieja Batki

          Maybe Cagey believes he can sob story his way to food, clothing, and shelter. Possibly there will be stupids enough that will feel that they will have to love their fellow man and take care of him and his parasitic kind.

      • http://www.rt.com Alondra

        U T O P I A !!!
        Dear KG, We do not live in the Dreamland. We are living in the REAL world.

        World NEVER “will be as one” because there is the endless bottle between “EVIL” and “GOODNESS”.

        GOODNESS can’t exist side by side with EVIL.

        God gave to men, each of us, the FREE WILL to choose between the “RIGHT” and the “WRONG”.

        God is not the source/force of evil. God is the source/force of the FREE WILL.

        Evil NEVER victimless, because there always are those who “CALL EVIL GOOD, and GOOD EVIL; that put DARKNESS for LIGHT, and LIGHT for DARKNESS; that put BITTER for SWEET, and SWEET for BITTER!” (Isaiah 5:20)

        “Do not fret because of EVILDOERS, nor be envious of the workers of iniquity. For THEY SHALL SOON BE CUT DOWN like the grass, and wither as the green herb. TRUST in the Lord, and DO GOOD…” (Psalms 37:1)

        “Therefore, to him who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is SIN.” (James 4:17)

        “[T]he Lord Almighty said: …DO NOT PLOT EVIL against each other.’ 11 “But THEY REFUSED TO PAY ATTENTION; STUBBORNLY THEY TURNED THEIR BACKS AND COVERED THEIR EARS. 12 THEY MADE THEIR HEARTS AS HARD AS FLINT and WOULD NOT LISTEN to the law or to THE WORDS THAT THE LORD ALMIGHTY had sent by His Spirit through the earlier prophets. So the Lord Almighty was very angry. 13 ‘When I called, THEY DID NOT LISTEN; so when they called, I would not listen,’ says the LORD Almighty.” (Zechariah 7)

        Now, my Friend, please pause and look (objectively) WHO is hurting this country, VERY badly hurting and openly. Including you. Just remember D E T R O I T !!!

      • Just Me

        More humans than bullets? Have you not heard the the Department of Homeland Security has 3 bullets for every man, woman, and child in America? What a silly statement! And just because I worked and saved and was frugal and thrifty and went without all the fancy new do-dads everybody seems to have to have, I should just give it to any lazy bum who walks up to my door and asks or DEMANDS ? I give the Lord what is His and I give charity to the people who deserve charity, those who are on hard times through no fault of their own, even though I myself do not have much and am handicapped. I would take in any child or, any mother and child who lost their husband/father or elderly person,or disabled person and care for them and feed them. But don’t expect me to have gone without and prepared as Joseph did for Egypt for the coming 7 years of famine to just give it away to any lazy person who spent their money on junk and goodies or has been living off of the state. Even Joseph SOLD the food he had stored to people from other countries. And speaking of that, why is the government taking the little that I have and GIVING it to the peoples of the world that HATE AMERICA and would love to see us flounder and fall? That is not charity, that is theft and then stupidity.

    • TheOriginalDaveH

      Yes, mark, and 9 times out of 10 you can cross a street without looking both ways first and get away with it. So are you “paranoid” for taking that precaution?
      Your statement is funny, you being a Liberal Progressive, who no doubt believes that there needs to be a Social Safety Net for everybody. Talk about being Chicken Littles.

    • Just Me

      Don’t come knocking on my door when the food stamps run out.

  • steve

    you can run but you can’t hide. read math 24;21,22 and Ezekiel 7;19

  • FreedomFighter

    Just signed in as Guest to post this?

    • Vigilant

      And it appears you got a guest up vote.

      DISQUS is beginning to look like the Obamacare website.

  • Warrior

    Do you know what the rapper 50 cent is called in Zimbabwe…………………..$400,000.00 million!

  • blackjack

    The article implies that a 27% decrease in M2 velocity explains the small rate of observed price inflation in response to a 350% increase in M2 money supply. Perhaps this reflects a methodological problem with the Fed’s velocity calculation, but it sure doesn’t support your argument.

  • red neck

    The biggest reason for a collapse is going to be the governments power grab.
    All governments have and will always take as much power as they can this is going to be the downfall of America.

    • Vis Fac

      Red If you look at the cause of collapse of the most powerful empires you will see a failed economy as being responsible. The Greeks Romans and even Russia fell because their economies went south. Socialist governments although appealing to the masses NEVER succeed.

      ODUMBO wants the US to be more like Europe we all know the economic condition of Europe and ODUMBOCARE will be the final nail in America’s coffin.

      ODUMBOCARE was a well though out plan to destroy America. The program allegedly depends on the the young people’s support to help pay for the older people. Well we all know the amount of responsibility that young people have (so does the government) They (young people) will just as soon as pay a $95 fine instead of $3000 per year for insurance.

      The overload will occur (and we are now witnessing) when Medicaid rolls are overflowing The internet sign up SNAFU is planned to provide an artificially induced panic so people can sign up for government programs therefore having more people dependent on government.

      When government has total control as it almost has the economy will collapse because there is nothing left to sustain it. BOOM it is at that time we become subjects of the realm our Constitution will be just another piece of worthless paper and the socialist liberals will “think” they have what they wanted.

      Unfortunately under socialism somebody is going to get something but that somebody will not be them!!!

      To sit back hoping that someday, some way, someone will make things right is to go on feeding the wolf hoping he will eat you last – but eat you he will.

      You don’t have to be a Marine to make a difference the only requirement is being truly patriotic and the willingness to back it up!!!

      Libertas inaestimabilis res est
      Semper-Fi

  • Jim B

    Bob, having a hard time with the total collapse theory, but being prepared for the unforeseen conditions is a good thing to do at all times. In the event of loss, be prepared to pay your rent or house payment for at least 6 months to a year, have a month to 6 months of standard food supplies and perishable on hand. Environmentally, prepare for flood, blizzards, tornados and alike if you live in areas that are susceptible to these conditions, and be prepared for both short and long environmental bad conditions, if you can. The act of preparing at all levels of potential risk to you and your family is never a bad thing to be thinking about. I’d just rather it be less about stupid and the bureaucratic mess our many layers of governments have created. I know that the US Citizens will raise well above any government stupidity that may due harm to this country and it citizens. Let’s not forget that the government provides not a single product, produces nothing, not food, not electricity, not shelter nor water … nothing! It is the US citizens that provides all of that. The governments only role is to make it difficult for Citizens to provide the services we give and get, and to extort (skim from the top) a portion of profits to be used to create more useless government bureacracy. By assuming governments can cause so much hardship is debunked. The government shutdown did nothing except show the citizens of this country the absolute content our government has for the people of this county, along with the results of the 2011 Sequester it proves without a doubt that we can live with a lot less government, a lot less!

  • TheOriginalDaveH

    Here is why we haven’t yet seen extreme price inflation:
    http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/the-federal-reserve-is-paying-banks-not-to-lend-1-8-trillion-dollars-to-the-american-people
    When the excess reserves become un-parked and are utilized for fractional banking, you will see the price of your goods skyrocket as an increasing amount of credit money floods the marketplaces.

    • Vis Fac

      Dave Unfortunately this is not news This has occurred as far back as Woodrow Wilson’s (D) administration when the Federal Reserve Bank was created. Most all other DUMBOCRITIC administrations have played this game. I was directly affected by Carter’s administration’s restrictive policies. When Reagan was elected the economic conditions ( at least where business was concerned) improved greatly. Those who malign Reagan most likely wanted the freebies that the DUMBOCRITES promise to hand out.

      To sit back hoping that someday, some way, someone will make things right is to go on feeding the wolf hoping he will eat you last – but eat you he will.

      You don’t have to be a Marine to make a difference the only requirement is being truly patriotic and the willingness to back it up!!!

      Libertas inaestimabilis res est
      Semper-Fi

    • Jimmy the Greek

      Like in 1932 Germany !

  • Al Chemist

    If TSHTF, people who live in rural areas, and in small towns will probably be okay unless they are complete morons. The people who live in cities like New York, Chicago, and LA will be in big trouble. There will be more people killed from riots than from starvation. Those “Welfare Zombie Gangs” who migrate from those cities into rural areas and small towns looking to pillage and rape will be quickly dispatched by people who believe in the Second Amendment. Be prepared.

    • Vis Fac

      Al. This is why I chose to be ultra rural. I had always wanted to have solace and privacy so I took a chance and bought a bit of ultra rural land where the next door neighbor is at least a mile away. Land here was more than reasonable so we amassed a little more than 88 hectares.

      We mainly used this piece of ground as a get away to go camping but within the past 15 years have converted a portion to full time living. Utilities are not available so we must adapt. We have LPG gas in 5K vessel in a semi subterranean vault Solar and electric generation two wells a small creek and a cistern for household water.

      We have ample grassland for our livestock and gardening and plenty of woods with game. Communications are via sat com should I need assistance a hamlet is about 15 minutes away. I have been prepared I hope the rest of you will follow suit.

      To sit back hoping that someday, some way, someone will make things right is to go on feeding the wolf hoping he will eat you last – but eat you he will.

      You don’t have to be a Marine to make a difference the only requirement is being truly patriotic and the willingness to back it up!!!

      Libertas inaestimabilis res est
      Semper-Fi

      • Kevin Wood

        While the looting and gang violence will begin in the cities, lone families will be subject to looting when the cities run out and the gangs start robbing the farms and smaller communities.

        • Al Chemist

          Gangs will “attempt” to start robbing the farms and smaller communities. Most rural and smaller community people believe in the Second Amendment. And, most know how to shoot (even women and kids). That’s when the buzzards, and crows are going to start feeding on gang carcasses.

      • Centurian

        I had a long talk a few years ago with a professor who is a terrorism consultant with DOD, DHS etc. He draws up an exercise each year for the Gubmint to tabletop. He said his best one took out 10 highway and 10 railroad intersections at the same time. Every scenario and model had the country devolved to a Mad Max state of affairs within 3 weeks. I said, I’m glad I live were I do. He said, “no place is safe.” I said, true enough, but I’m better off than you. He asked “how so?” well, I live on an island and ten guys with rifles (who I know) can seal off the bridge. Other guys can patrol with boats. He asked, “What will you eat?” and I said, Duh? Fish! We are in the ocean! He asked, “Where will you find water?” and I said, the sound between us and the mainland is fresh. His conclusion? “You are more likely than 98% of the population to survive what’s coming.”

    • Jimmy the Greek

      And it well be fun doing it to

      • John H. Holliday D.D.S.

        The Second Amendment is a tool that has always been a last resort form of effective and proven parasite vermin pest control against both the violent and dangerous four legged and against the violent and dangerous two legged vermin pest parasites.

  • TheOriginalDaveH

    I firmly believe that we could regain our prosperity almost overnight (1-3 years) if we only cut back Government to 1/3 of its current size. In 1900 Government spent 5% of our GDP. Now they spend 40% of our GDP. That’s an 8 times increase. If we cut them back to 1/3 of their current size, they would still be spending more than twice what they spent in 1900 and prior.
    Please people, read and learn economics as taught by the Austrian Economists at Mises Institute. Especially read the books written by Murray Rothbard who was a phenomenally talented thinker.
    Here is a list of links for various free books in E formats:
    http://mises.org/books/

    Here are some I’ve read and recommend:
    http://mises.org/books/AGD.pdf
    http://mises.org/books/aswegomarching.pdf
    http://mises.org/books/capitalism_kelly.pdf
    http://mises.org/books/case_100_percent_gold_rothbard.pdf
    http://mises.org/books/century.pdf
    http://mises.org/books/historyofmoney.pdf
    http://mises.org/books/whathasgovernmentdone.pdf

    I loved the following book. It was over 1700 pages, but you will learn things that most of us never heard in the Propaganda Schools, and it is a fascinating history that brings figures in history into real life instead of the infallible heros that we were taught about in K-12:
    http://mises.org/books/conceived1.pdf
    http://mises.org/books/conceived2.pdf
    http://mises.org/books/conceived3.pdf
    http://mises.org/books/conceived4.pdf

    • Eric Bischoff

      I agree we could/should cut down govt expenditures pretty quickly but I am sure we have different ideas on what to cut. If we are ever to cut anything it should be the military, wars and subsidies to corporations that don’t need them like oil companies.

      I know you don’t really care in your thinking Dave because you see the govt as this evil entity when it sometimes is but it is also people, lots of people and the last thing we need for the economy is more unemployment.

      Americans got a partial taste of what a govt shutdown looks like. I say partial because it was a missed opportunity, they should have shut all of it down so that all would have learned what the hard core libertarians would really like which is to shut most of it down. Then they would have got a real taste of what services they expect would be gone. No social security check, no VA , no post office, no SBA, no …. you get the point.

      Enough with the Mises as if that’s the panacea for everything.

      I find it interesting, well really hypocritical, that your most favorite place, hell you seem to have built a shrine for it and maybe you even work or have studied there, is the Ludwig Von Mises Institute. Don’t get me wrong I favor Austrian Economics thinking over the Milton Friedman or Keynes anyday, but I object to other things about them such as their twisted thinking on equality(not) and their misogynist tendencies. They don’t seem to like anything about minorities, women, the underdog, the immigrants or the voiceless in society. Let’s be honest they favor the Rich Elite White Men and maybe that explains their choice of locating in Alabama.

      And when you talk about freedom to hold on to your own wealth, you’re really talking about the Rich Elite White Men who want to get richer and are not interested in sharing or equality and they hate the thought of their money being used to help anyone in society. The more for them the better and screw everyone else. I am sorry but this Patriarchal, Plutocrat dead zone has got to go already. There is no place left in the 21st century for such narrow minded and bigot thinking. In a way they are part of the old european thinking that our ancestors escaped. I don’t mind entertaining some of their economics Ideas, but I think we should resist the rest of their thinking with all of our might.

      Do us all a favor and give up your love for the destructive Heritage Foundation, CATO and Mises all funded by the Koch Brothers Coal Barons. And yes I know that the Koch Brothers and the Rockefellers have distanced themselves and stopped financing Mises today.

      May I suggest you read “Spiral Dynamics: Mastering Values, Leadership and change” By Don Edward Beck and Christopher Cowan. It gives an understanding of how societies progress or not and it explains how we behave while we are climbing up the spiral towards a more enlightened society. That book is an eye opener and helps us understand why we behave and think the way we do and what our next level is that we should aspire to reach.

      Here are some other great Alternative Progressive people doing some great work for a Healthier America that we should also be listening to.

      http://www.maxkeiser.com

      http://solari.com/blog/

      http://garalperovitz.com

      http://rdwolff.com

      http://www.josephstiglitz.com

      http://www.ted.com

      http://www.bioneers.org

      http://www.rmi.org

      • TheOriginalDaveH

        Eric says — “I agree we could/should cut down govt expenditures pretty quickly but I am sure we have different ideas on what to cut”.
        That is exactly why we should never have allowed Government to provide services that the Private Sector provides more cheaply and are paid for by the actual users of such services. Everybody has different ideas on how best Government money should be spent, and the Leaders thank you for being so confused.

        Eric says — “because you see the govt as this evil entity when it sometimes is but it is also people”.
        Oh? So Corporations aren’t people, but Government is. It seems that Eric reserves to pick and choose which are comprised of people and which are comprised of ? (robots maybe?).

        Eric says — “Americans got a partial taste of what a govt shutdown looks like”.
        Indeed they did. They learned that Government will spend more money to spite the taxpayers, then they usually spend to run those same operations. They learned that Government will use the tax payers’ dependency against them. They learned that Government could care less about the people, and that Private Enterprise is a much better choice of Service Provider.

        Eric says — “they should have shut all of it down…. No social security check”.
        And there you have it, Folks, from the Donkey’s mouth. We paid into Social Security all our working lives, and Erik thinks they should quit paying us to teach us a lesson. Erik is revealing his true ugly self.

        Eric says — “but I object to other things about them [Mises Institute] such as their twisted thinking on equality(not) and their misogynist tendencies. They don’t seem to like anything about minorities, women, the underdog, the immigrants or the voiceless in society. Let’s be honest they favor the Rich Elite White Men and maybe that explains their choice of locating in Alabama”.
        Eric is lying, as usual. Mises Institute advocates Freedom for all people. What they don’t advocate is special-privileges for certain minorities, of any kind via Government, at the expense of everybody else.
        I defy you, Eric, you lying piece of Commie Bat Guana, to quote a single passage from any Mises Institute author that supports your claims.

        Eric says — “And when you talk about freedom to hold on to your own wealth, you’re really talking about the Rich Elite White Men who want to get richer and are not interested in sharing or equality and they hate the thought of their money being used to help anyone in society”.
        Spare us your Class Envy, Erik the Red. The reality is that Government (remember, as Eric said, Government is just people) consumes our Wealth, while the Private Sector produces our Wealth. Who is more worthy of living high on the hog — the Non-Producers in Government, or the Producers in the Private Sector?
        And anybody with half-a-brain knows that the Rich are investing much of their money in Capital Equipment which results in cheaper goods, and more high-paid jobs, while that same money in Government hands is used to consume wealth, buy votes, protect their specially-privileged Crony Capitalists with burdensome regulations, and live high on our hogs.
        http://mises.org/daily/5277/When-Capital-Is-Nowhere-in-View

        You can follow Erik’s lead, Folks, and enable Government to impoverish our nation, like Socialism has everywhere it has been fully implemented, or you can work for Freedom and shrink our Leviathan Government dramatically, and get us back to prosperity. The choice is yours.

        • Eric Bischoff

          Man you piss me off with your dishonesty.

          I said that the shutdown should have been global instead of cherry picked so that people could decide if they want govt or not. I know what the answer is.

          I never once advocated taking away social security unlike the Wall St people who are salivating on getting their hands on that last pile of money because lets face it they already took the 401K and went through that best they could.

          Some in Govt are trying to REGULATE so that the Banksters can’t steal and gamble away your Social Security.

          Which side are you on?

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Eric says — “Man you piss me off with your dishonesty”.
            The “compassionate” Commie Eric comes out of the closet.

            Eric says — “I said that the shutdown should have been global instead of cherry picked so that people could decide if they want govt or not. I know what the answer is”.
            I would like that. Shut it down. Liquidate their assets, and distribute the funds to the people in order of the ranking of their liabilities, creditors getting first stab at the assets (Social Security participants, bond holders, etc.).
            Put those non-productive Politicians and Bureaucrats back to doing useful work in Free Markets. Get Government back to the state level where the people have easier access to redress their grievances.
            With Free Markets, sound money, and strict Property Rights, our economy would boom. Only the Leaders, Crony Capitalists, Bureaucrats, and Shills (like Eric) would suffer — As it should be.

            Eric says — “Some in Govt are trying to REGULATE so that the Banksters can’t steal and gamble away your Social Security”.
            Sure Eric, whatever you say:
            http://mises.org/daily/5658/Is-Social-Security-a-Ponzi-Scheme
            The Banksters are the Regulators, and Eric either knows that but wants to mislead the readers, or he is a very ignorant man.
            http://mises.org/Books/historyofmoney.pdf

            Eric says — “Which side are you on?”.
            I really am on the side of the people, unlike Eric who only pretends to be. The readers who study the articles and books that I link to will know that.

          • Eric Bischoff

            Notice Dave always says theirs instead of ours. I think he would like to have it all theirs. Theirs being the 1% because they don’t have enough yet.

            Lquidate OUR assets like what for example. Our nuclear weapons, tanks, submarines. Forests, lakes, highways, ocean rights, national parks. aquifers, bridges, tunnels…

            At wholesale’ liquidation going out of business prices too I am sure.

            Who wants to vote for what Dave wants here?

          • JeffH

            I vote for DaveH because I vote for freedom and the fact that he has not wavered from his beliefs in the 4+- years he’s been posting comments on PLD.

            Unlike you Eric the Red, he’s got credibility and stumps for freedom and liberty and he’s doesn’t stump for the tyranny of communism.

            Who wants to vote for Eric the Red and his vision of communism?

          • Eric Bischoff

            OK so we have one relative voting for selling all our common wealth assets. Anybody else. Speak up, Stand up for what you really want. Should we add our atmosphere in there too we’ll sell our airspace and our breathing air. Come on who wants to vote for this? Do we have any takers?

          • JeffH

            You’re ranting Eric the Red. Slow down, take a deep breath and exhale and with any luck you might not pass out.

          • WTS/JAY

            What common-wealth-assets are you referring to, Eric?

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            They aren’t “ours” numbnuts. They belong to the Government Gang. Try exercising any of the Powers of Ownership on any of those assets if you don’t believe me.
            They proved that a few weeks ago with the Shutdown.

          • Charlie

            Eric ,,, The Book says King Jesus Christ “Owns” all the Earth and all that’s on it … What price did you pay for your part ??? Can We make payments with anti-Christ paper credit notes ??

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            The real 1%:
            http://mises.org/daily/5776/The-State-is-the-1-Percent
            And Eric wants to increase their Power.

            Eric says — “Who wants to vote for what Dave wants here?”.
            Argumentum ad Populum. What else could we expect from such an ignorant commenter?

        • JeffH

          Thank you for having the patience to respond with actual facts that discredit Eric the Red and his lack of perceptiveness or reality.

          Eric says below “Man you piss me off with your dishonesty.”

          Well Eric the Red, to a point you’ve been pissed on…of your own choosing I might add.

          Eric the Red makes a feeble, although Obama like attempt, to cover up his own lie when he states “I never once advocated taking away social security…”
          You got nailed big time when you stated “”they should have shut all of it down…. No social security check”.”
          Well, to your credit, you didn’t say “No social security check” FOREVER.

          LMAO at the stupidity and the chutzpah to come back and attempt to defend it.

          You can figure it out can’t you Eric the Red?

          You’re a big government progressive advocating for government cronyism…as long as the government you prop up steals from the “Haves” and redistributes to the “Have not’s”. You are the typical Liberal/Progressive in that you can’t differentiate between Capitalism and Crony-capitalism.
          As my mother used to say…”Boo Hoo! My heart pumps pee for thee”.

          You can whine, cry and even get pissed on but it changes nothing about you Eric the Red…you are truly envious…you really must love communism.

          • Eric Bischoff

            Reading Comprehension problems I see.

            Are you guys related?

          • JeffH

            Not at all Eric the Red. I just don’t agree with your commie doublespeak!

          • Eric Bischoff

            Facts! Are there any facts anywhere, ever coming from Dave? Oh you mean the Mises quotes. I guess one might construe these as facts if one was in a delusional state.

            Mises is dead I heard he recounted everything on his death bed like Louie Pasteur did.

          • JeffH

            You’re hearing those voices again Eric the Red.

            They’re coming to take you away He, He, Hah, Hah…to the funny farm…the happy home…He, He…

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Eric says — “Mises is dead I heard he recounted everything on his death bed like Louie Pasteur did”.
            Recounted? LOL.
            Mises did no such thing, lying Commie Eric. He didn’t recant anything either.

        • Eric Bischoff

          Dave says Oh? So Corporations aren’t people, but Government is. It seems that Eric reserves to pick and choose which are comprised of people and which are comprised of ? (robots maybe?).

          Well at one time we used to have democracy in govt but we’ve never had it in the workplace! But like it or not that’s coming

          So yes corporations are not people.

          And we should never have patented their genes either.

          • Eric Bischoff

            I know it’s a little complicated for you Dave. Govt is supposed to be We the people but! the rich people and corporations guided by rich people buy politicians and control govt. So govt should be people working for the people but instead it’s become rich people working for a few rich people.

            Corporations are a few people hiding behind a charter that protects them from getting in trouble when they kill, maime, cheat, lie, steal, pollute.

            Tell me is anybody working for the people any more?
            Progressives are still trying!

            Who still thinks the 1% and corporations should have more of a voice in govt that you the average Joe should?

            Should we have one person one vote in america or $1 one vote?

            Its all about choice and commitment.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Now you’re talking to yourself? What next, uncontrollable drooling?
            Government has never been “we the people”, Eric.
            Governments have always been about special privileges for the Leaders and their Pals. Our revolutionary ancestors held them in check for about 70 years, but now they have fully manifested themselves. We are almost back to Serfdom, thanks to ignorant (or mischievous) people like Eric.
            Even the people who established the Constitution, as good as it was compared to most systems of their time, were advantage-seeking people of the upper-class:
            http://mises.org/daily/4254/Liberty-vs-the-Constitution-The-Early-Struggle
            http://mises.org/daily/2335

        • Eric Bischoff

          Dave says That is exactly why we should never have allowed Government to provide services that the Private Sector provides more cheaply.

          Again we should all ASSume that Dave knows what he is talking about when in reality there are countless examples of the opposite happening after privatization.

        • Eric Bischoff

          and Dave says And anybody with half-a-brain knows that the Rich are investing much of their money in Capital Equipment which results in cheaper goods, and more high-paid jobs.

          Ha Ha Ha! LOL!
          Now that’s precious. The rich are gambling using zero interest money and they are buying back stocks in their companies. They are not investing and creating jobs.

          Got any more jokes for us Dave?

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Yes, Eric, you.
            Eric can’t distinguish between Crony Capitalists who are benefiting from Federal Reserve largess, and Market Capitalists who benefit by pleasing their consumers.
            http://mises.org/daily/2317

          • Eric Bischoff

            And where might one fight this elusive free market utopia you constantly quote from Oh Lord Mises?

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Given that Leaders strive for more Power and Privilege, it makes no sense for them to push for Free Markets where they would have limited Power. So indeed, Freedom is rare. But Socialism, especially in its extreme form (Communism), is quite desirable to Leaders as it gives Leaders great Power over their subjects. As a result there are plenty of examples that prove the failure of Socialism — USSR, 20th Century China, North Korea, Cuba, etc.
            Also, those people who are interested can study this ranking of countries based on their Economic Freedom (more EF = less Socialism) and make the discovery that the LEAST Economically Free (most Socialistic) countries are also the poorest:
            http://www.heritage.org/index/ranking
            I will preempt Eric’s probable ad Hominem attack on Heritage Foundation with this sentence (or maybe not).

          • Eric Bischoff

            Yes you are right because the Heritage Foundation is a think tank bought and paid for by the coal, oil and gas barons known as the Koch Bros whose family made their wealth in the USSR. They also funded the beginning of Mises, Cato, American Enterprise Institute. All wolves in sheeps clothing pretending to be for freedom in america when in reality what they are about is making the 1% in complete control and with a bigger piece of the pie than what they’ve already stolen from the working masses. That’s what they really mean by Freedom. Freedom to pay you less, Freedom to pollute more, freedom to destroy any rule making that stands in the way of their greed. They’ll still try to sell you failed trickle down, or as I call pee on the poor, economics

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Who are you bought and paid for by, Eric? Since you’ve been hanging around for years and trying to spread the same old nonsense, I can only conclude that you are here to Propagandize, not to learn. In other words — A lying Shill.

            Eric says — “oil and gas barons known as the Koch Bros whose family made their wealth in the USSR. They also funded the beginning of Mises, Cato, American Enterprise Institute”.
            Isn’t that a kick? Koch Brothers finance organizations that advocate for Small Government, thus less Crony Capitalism and Freer Markets. Only an organization that was confident that they could do better pleasing their customers than by greasing Political Palms would do that.
            Yet, Eric claims to be against Big Business. Doesn’t make much sense does it, Folks?

            Eric says — “Freedom to pay you less, Freedom to pollute more, freedom to destroy any rule making that stands in the way of their greed. They’ll still try to sell you failed trickle down, or as I call pee on the poor, economics”.
            Either Eric is drop-dead ignorant, or he’s a Shill.
            The Bigger Government is, the more people there are that are non-producers. In fact, they not only are non-producers, but they are negatively productive because they inhibit other people from producing with their regulations. And we have to pay them big salaries for their meddling. Nice for the State. Not so nice for the rest of us.
            “Trickle Down” is a Liberal Progressive invention for steering ignorant people around by the nose. The truth is that with Free Markets anybody, who put in the necessary effort, would be able to succeed. There would be no hurdles to jump over other than simply pleasing your customers.
            And Eric cites the usual nonsense equating Free Markets with the Freedom to Pollute. What next — Free Markets mean Freedom to Murder? Eric is an idiot, a Socialist idiot.
            Eric knows nothing about Economics. He is obviously either feeding at the trough, or a wannabe Leader who doesn’t want to have to actually put any effort into his success.

          • Eric Bischoff

            Dave says Heritage foundation Reagan Thatcher trickle down economics is a liberal progressive invention. Now that precious! You’re funny today!

          • TheOriginalDaveH
          • Eric Bischoff

            That’s right Dave the very organizations you quote from don’t have our best interest.
            So why are you with them?
            Do you work for the 1%?

            Are you the 1%?
            What’s in it for you?

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            What’s in it for me? Unlike you, Eric, I really do care about the struggling masses, and I want them to be Free to be the best they can be. It’s too late for me, but it’s not to late for most of the people to benefit from Freedom.

          • Eric Bischoff

            Maybe you need a rest Dave you’re getting grumpier and grumpier and even your name calling is getting nastier and nastier.

            I hate to break it to you because that may really push you over the edge and I am sorry but I not a communist. It’s true!. I hate to burst your bubble this way. What will you and you pack of followers do now?

            I am not a democrat or republican or a liberal either. What I have is a liberal mind meaning I remain open minded searching for better ideas. I am certainly not and will never be a libertarian. I don’t like most of there conservative ideas either. The one thing I would like to like about them fiscally conservative never happens anyway. I do favor some progressive ideas but there’s no party to join and I am happy for that.

            You can’t pigeon hole me. You are mostly wrong about me. I am an enigma. I like some Govt, some business, some freedom. I love the environment and the people who live in it with respect. What I hate is greedy, liars, thieves, polluters and murderers.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Eric says — “Maybe you need a rest Dave you’re getting grumpier and grumpier and even your name calling is getting nastier and nastier”.
            Argument ad hominem.

            Eric says — “I hate to break it to you because that may really push you over the edge and I am sorry but I not a communist”.
            You admitted to that long ago, Eric. Are you trying to tell us you’ve changed? Or are you just lying again? Funny that even on this board you referred to the “collective”, a Communist term:
            http://personalliberty.com/2013/11/04/living-outside-the-system-and-preparing-for-coming-collapse/#comment-1108568075
            Another odd thing is that you were in moth-balls for months. Now, after Bob changes his system to no longer allow guest comments, here you are. Did your multiple personalities get blocked?

            Eric says — “What I hate is greedy, liars, thieves, polluters and murderers”.
            Yet you advocate the Force of Big Government which takes money from unwilling donors. And I caught you in at least one lie just on this board. So you hate yourself?

          • Eric Bischoff

            I never admitted to being a communist. I find the accusations funny and silly. What I did say is I would rather be called a communist than a fascist.

            You are so confused. Take off your blinders already. I never advocate for big govt. You only ASSume that’s what I want when clearly I have stated over and over that I only want effective govt working for we the people instead of you the 1% and the corporations.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Eric’s reading list from 2 years ago:
            http://personalliberty.com/2012/04/17/how-states-can-protect-themselves-from-financial-collapse/#comment-840645716

            Richard Wolff — “The New York Times Magazine has named him “America’s most prominent Marxist economist”.

            Joseph Stiglitz:
            http://mises.org/daily/971

            Slavoj Zizek:
            “The Marxist Slovenian philosopher Božidar Debenjak was an early influence on Slavoj Žižek”.
            http://www.egs.edu/faculty/slavoj-zizek/biography/

          • Nadzieja Batki

            Eric did not succeed, did not create a business or a service. What you get out of him is pure parasitism. Let someone else work and sacrifice and lose sleep and family time as long as long as he gets his welfare check.
            This is pure envy, greed and malice posing as altruism which is pathological at its core. Eric is simply one of the destroyers of the middle class.

          • Eric Bischoff

            Actually I am not complaining. I am a part owner of a $150M company that I helped build in the last 32 years and we have 500 employees with a high record of retention and longevity with the company. I wouldn’t equate that as destroyer of the middle class. I happen to believe in a different system. I truly believe that this one sucks and the Mondragon model is where we are headed and it will revolutionize everything including our politics. When the community and the people’s lives are improved by such a friendlier fairer business structure where the employees are the owners and they get to make all of the decisions. That’s true democratic principles and they then vote for better politicians. Now that’s freedom.

            You guys still believe in the american dream but it’s an illusion and there’s a nasty man behind the curtain.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            If you can join together voluntarily with other like-minded individuals and form a successful company without special protections from Government, more power to you.
            But don’t Force your way on the rest of us.

          • Eric Bischoff

            Please explain to me Dave how one could ever force their way onto you? Aren’t you being a little paranoid. Aren’t we just talking and exchanging ideas and beliefs. There’s an awful lot of fear around here. All of these guns and still you are afraid of ideas! I guess the pen is mightier than the sword.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Oh please. Try your manipulation on some weak-minded Liberal Progressives. It doesn’t work on me.

          • http://personalliberty.com/ Bob Livingston

            Dear Eric Bischoff,

            You write: “Actually I am not complaining. I am a part owner of a $150M company that I helped build in the last 32 years and we have 500 employees with a high record of retention and longevity with the company. I wouldn’t equate that as destroyer of the middle class.” I’m calling foul based on this conversation you and I once had. http://personalliberty.com/2012/06/04/who-is-brett-kimberlin-and-why-should-you-care/#comment-840650842

            But if you are indeed “part owner of a $150 million company that [you] helped build,” please answer these questions:

            Are you one of the “greedy bastards” that profit more than your employees?
            Do you pay “adequate wage” and is 500 employees “adequate employment?”
            Are workers part owners as well? If so, are you a worker/owner or one of the founders/board members?
            Is your company collecting “record corporate profits” while keeping wages of your workers “flat?”
            Does your company use its funds to lobby government for favors?
            Does your company’s product or service “help in making you health or unhealthy?”
            Does your company discriminate against all southerners, or is that discrimination reserved for Alabamians?

            Best wishes,
            Bob

          • Eric Bischoff

            Dear Bob,
            you say:

            Are you one of the “greedy bastards” that profit more than your employees?

            Some would probably see it that way. I directly manage 20 people and in my group the lowest/newest paid to the highest is a ratio of 3 to 1. As the Chief Technology Officer, having been there for 32 years and the newest being with us for 1 year.

            Do you pay “adequate wage” and is 500 employees “adequate employment?”

            We have a reputation for being good payers as we need to attract knowledge workers. We are experts in Transportation logistics. We need to know how to get a heart to hospital for a transplant or parts to get a supply chain moving again. We are a non asset company. Our people are our assets. They don’t leave so we must be doing something right.

            Are workers part owners as well? If so, are you a worker/owner or one of the founders/board members?

            I am one of the original employees and a worker owner with a small minority ownership. There are maybe 40 of us who have a stake in the company.

            But one person has the majority.

            Is your company collecting “record corporate profits” while keeping wages of your workers “flat?”

            Every bubble has made us go a roller coaster ride. We try and stay afloat and we try and keep our staff. It takes a long time to train people to do what we do. We all took pay cuts to keep the company afloat after 9/11.

            These days we now have a full time staff of 6 people that do nothing but TSA Homeland security compliance. What a waste.

            Does your company use its funds to lobby government for favors?

            No
            Airlines got bailed out after 9/11 but we were left to fend for ourselves even though they are all our clients as we move their parts to keep them flying.

            Does your company’s product or service “help in making you health or unhealthy?”

            Both.
            We help save lives but let’s face it transportation pollutes. We have a green initiative program. And seeing that we have never closed our doors since day one, it can be a stressful job. The show must go on.

            Does your company discriminate against all southerners, or is that discrimination reserved for Alabamians?

            We operate worldwide. We have developed a network of specially trained agents worldwide. Many of our managers and the COO of our company are women.

            The Alabama bit was blowback humor for you guys. You’re not that thin skinned are you!

            Or are we going to sit here and argue on the morals, values and ethics of this crowd and how they treat others who don’t think like them?

        • Eric Bischoff

          Is it really class envy to demand a fair living wage and a little more equality?

          Who wants more poverty, no more middle class and a few more billionaire’s instead?

          Let’s see a show of hands.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            A “fair wage” is whatever you and your potential employer agree on. Otherwise, you are stealing from them.
            Equality can not possibly be hoped to be gained when a small group of people (Government) have absolute Power over your life.
            More poverty, less middle class, and a few people living on everybody else’s back is exactly what we can expect from Eric’s brand of Socialistic politics.
            Here is a history of Government Spending as a percentage of GDP since 1900:
            http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/spending_history
            Notice that the Progressives have been spending “progressively” more over the decades. And what do we get from it? We get people like Eric who complain about conditions and want to throw even more gasoline on the fire.

          • Eric Bischoff

            A fair Living Wage is merely one allows you to make a living in whatever location you are as opposed to being at the poverty level. In NYC it’s a lot different than a small town in the midwest.

            The employers are the ones stealing and you are not even honest to admit it.

            They pay as little as they can get away with and let the govt pick-up the slack on everything else like food stamps and healthcare because people are still poor and can’t make ends meet. The employers don’t care.

            Equality is possible if you CHOOSE it and you teach it. The Mondragon model proves it. 90K worker owners of the Mondragon Cooperative corporation agreed that the highest paid can only have 6 times what the lowest paid makes. It works and they are all happier for it. Their community is healthier and they are not looking to outhouse manufacturing to China so that the top people can get richer. They understand that we are all in the same boat.

            How is your model working Dave. Are we happy in America? How are the job creators doing should we rate them? I know you had nothing to do with it! How convenient.

            I venture to say that things are operating a lot closer to your model than mine.

            Yes let’s do your model Dave , let’s deregulate everything even more because we all know that the 1% can be trusted to always do the right thing.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Eric says — “The
            employers are the ones stealing and you are not even honest to admit it”.
            I can’t admit to a lie, Eric. Stealing is when you take somebody’s property against their will. The employers are not taking your property, and you willfully accept their wages or you go elsewhere.

            Eric says — “They pay as little as they can get away with”.
            Such a revelation, Eric. And you ask as much as you can get away with, Eric. What a concept — voluntary transactions.

            Please quit feigning concern for the poor, Eric. If you were truly concerned for the poor, the last thing you would do is push for Socialism which has proven to impoverish countries and their people throughout time.

            Eric says — “How is your model working Dave. Are we happy in America?”.
            Apparently not, Eric. In fact I’ve never seen so many unhappy people before in my life. What has changed since I was a kid? MORE Government! Lots more. And yet you want to grow it even larger.

            When do you Commies throw in the towel, Eric? How crappy does our economy have to get before you thieving Socialists admit that Socialism doesn’t work?

          • Eric Bischoff

            Yes you are right their stealing is a lot more subtle and therefore more disgusting.

            I only wish we had real democratic socialism in this country. Imagine that a free market system that also made sure no one fell through the cracks.

            But instead we have a lot more of what you advocate. Businesses having their ways and they are having their ways with our govt and electing people that are growing govt. So who’s really responsible Dave?

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            No, Eric, you are the Thief. Not the Market Capitalists.
            As Government Grows, Corruption Flows. Who wants Bigger Government? Not me –> Eric.

          • Eric Bischoff

            Disingenuous.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Looking in the mirror again, Eric, at the Communist in those cool glasses? What kind of person wears sunglasses to get his portrait taken? What a geek.

          • Eric Bischoff

            Oh so now you are attacking my looks. I’m half blind.

            Do you really look like that human like grey figure?

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Half-blind? You mean intellectually or physically?

          • Eric Bischoff

            Physically. But you seem to be but a shadow of yourself!

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Funny that you didn’t tell me that a year or two ago when I made a similar comment. Are you going to try and tell us now that you were shy?
            If it’s true, I apologize.

          • Eric Bischoff

            Apology accepted.

          • JeffH

            Eric the Red harps “I only wish we had real democratic socialism in this country.”

            What you mean is Gorbachev’s Soviet model of democratic socialism, perestroika, advocating for a strong welfare state, fiscal redistribution along with a smattering of some nationalisation…Communism by any other definition is still communism…just admit it and be done with it.

            News flash…Despite what you want, we are a Constitutional Republic which was never meant to be a “mob ruled” democracy.

          • Eric Bischoff

            Dave Says
            Notice that the Progressives have been spending “progressively” more over the decades.

            Conservatives(not) control the spending Dave. The Progressives have never ever been even close to controlling spending in America. It’s your loss though.

            Get it right Dave!

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Apparently, Eric, you don’t have a clue what constitutes a Progressive.
            A Progressive advocates the use of Big Government to solve Society’s problems. Anybody, not just Liberals, who advocates growing Government larger is a Progressive:
            http://mises.org/daily/2543

            Don’t project, Eric. You’re the ignorant one.

          • Eric Bischoff

            Oh another Mises post how original!

            I suppose you are an expert on Progressive ideas and we should trust you to tell us how I think.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Oh, nothing, how unusual.
            You’re getting increasingly childlike with each succeeding post, Eric.

      • http://personalliberty.com/ Bob Livingston

        Dear Eric Bischoff,

        You write: “but I object to other things about them such as their twisted thinking on equality(not) and their misogynist tendencies. They don’t seem to like anything about minorities, women, the underdog, the immigrants or the voiceless in society. Let’s be honest they favor the Rich Elite White Men…” This is poppycock.

        You write: “and maybe that explains their choice of locating in Alabama.” Please explain this statement. It seems you are stating that people in Alabama “don’t seem to like anything about minorities, women, the underdog, the immigrants or the voiceless in society. Let’s be honest they favor the Rich Elite White Men.” If this is what you mean, then you are a bigot.

        Best wishes,
        Bob

        • Eric Bischoff

          That very well could be but if the shoe fits wear it proudly.

          • http://personalliberty.com/ Bob Livingston

            Dear Eric Bischoff,

            Your honesty is appreciated. Your bigotry is not. Thank you for this expression of progressive “tolerance.”

            Best wishes,
            Bob

      • paendragon

        Eric, you wrote: “I agree we could/should cut down govt expenditures pretty quickly but I am sure we have different ideas on what to cut. If we are ever to cut anything it should be the military, wars and subsidies to corporations that don’t need them like oil companies” …and: ” “They don’t seem to like anything about minorities, women, the underdog, the immigrants or the voiceless in society.”

        In other words, you’re all for group rights, like any “progressive.”

        1). When groups have rights, individual human citizens who aren’t members of those groups, have LESS rights; i.e: no real universal human rights can exist under your preferred ideal.

        2). Newsflash: White men are solely guilty of causing history.

        Ever since the Chinese invented writing and gunpowder, and the Hindus created the (later stolen, and so called) “Arabic” numerals, and from them derived the concept of zero, EVERYTHING on earth – every bit of technology – has been created by White Men. Period.

        3). The criteriae for valid government was conceived by none other than Albert Einstein: and as he noted, the only real purpose of government is to act as the largest collectively-owned insurance company, to defend our collective needs (to basics like air, water, food, shelter, health and education) while not pandering to any private wants, and to use economies of scale (bulk buying) to get the best price to do so – period.

        We certainly don’t need the polemic Punch ‘N’ Judy puppet
        show of the right wing (“We NEVER need government, for anything!”) versus the left wing (“We ALWAYS need Government, for everything!”) to divide and conquer us. Just keep the needs separate from the wants, and “governing” isn’t rocket surgery!

        Abolish all political parties and the politicians would go back to
        being PUBLIC servants from being (as they currently are) only
        corporazi-owned sales-puppets.

        Since only you collectivist liberals believe in selling victimology
        and in group-might-made-rights, in us-versus-them conformity, and Conservatives believe in live and let live individual rights and responsibilities, ONLY you liberals oppress people; Conservatives believe in equality of opportunity; liberals believe in equality of outcome, which is an attack on those who actually try to succeed, (“Makers”) in favor of those that don’t (“Takers”).

        Collective needs – to air, water, food, shelter (needs being those things without which we suffer pain and/or die) are “collective,” because if someone poisons any of them in a certain area, EVERYONE is affected.

        Those we hire to manage the insurance company are not parents nor owners, they are servants.

        We keep hiring self-promoting “progressive” salesmen to rule over us!

        They assume there’s no money in solutions, (and its corollary: “It’s not broken, so let’s fix it!”) and so can always be counted on to spin temporary problems with easy, permanent solutions into eternal crises with only band-aid therapies available, in order to buy us low and sell themselves most high as much-needed crisis relief management experts! i.e: “Please Give Generously – AGAIN! Whee!”

        Government is either the People’s Servant, and so does not attack them first, or it is their Master, a status achieved BY attacking them first, slanderously reversing the onus of proof.

        • JeffH

          paendragon, BRAVO!

      • TheOriginalDaveH

        What? No DailyKos?

      • hungry4food

        Eric Bischoff man this trade agreement that Obama is pushing hard for even has the Liberals in media all pissed off man , check this out ,
        http://www.democracynow.org/2013/6/6/obama_backed_trans_pacific_partnership_expands
        http://www.democracynow.org/2013/10/4/a_corporate_trojan_horse_obama_pushes

      • Robert Messmer

        When you say things like “‘And when you talk about freedom to hold on to your own wealth,” along with “There is no place left in the 21st century for such narrow minded and bigot thinking.” it makes it sound as though you are advocating seizing the assets of people like Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, Oprah Winfrey, et al in total to “share” with those less fortunate. So after your government steals all the money from the “Rich Elite White Men”, and oh yes don’t leave out the Rich Elite Black Women. thereby sending the message to all citizens and even the “dreamers” that if you succeed in America, we will take it away from you, just how productive do you think anyone will bother to be?

        Had to google your Mondragon – found out that it is in Spain and filed for bankruptcy this year. Yes the ration between top and bottom varies by company within the group from 3:1 to 9:1 with an average of about 5:1. Actually the core of it is in the Basque region. Been a while since I was in school but from what I remember not only is Spain pretty much a society with no great minorities but the Basque region is even more closed. Perhaps that has changed now. But if not they are even more closed minded about outsiders than Alabamians.

    • Charlie

      Organic ,,, what power are you going to use to accomplish your mission ?? Rand Paul was over at the wailing wall praying …. Maybe you can join up with him ….

  • Jeff Noncent

    cheos is not the word to describe what’s going to happen to this world it will start with the United State of America because this nation enjoy freedom, and liberty for a long time now this nation is in danger of judgement