Comments Subscribe to Personal Liberty News Feed Subscribe to Personal Liberty
 

Living & Damn near Dying with Socialized Medicine

August 26, 2009 by  

Living & Damn near Dying with Socialized Medicine

“The reality is that from Canada to Cuba socialized health care’s record is appalling. It’s impossible to tally how many patients die…” Smart Money, July 16, 2007

You can ask me about universal health care. I’ve lived it. I’ve almost died it.

I’m a dual citizen and spent almost equal portions of my adult life in Canada and the United States. Canada has many things going for it and I moved back to Calgary to be where the action is in energy. But it’s a move that almost cost me my life.

I started getting flu-like symptoms on a Sunday last October. I was sluggish and pensive. I had reason to be. I have acute asthma.

As afternoon turned to evening I was having trouble catching my breath. By 7 p.m. I was struggling for air. My wife Angie ordered me to the car and raced me to one of Calgary’s emergency health clinics just down the road. We both knew I might be getting pneumonia, a potential killer for an asthmatic.

It had happened to me once before in Spokane, Wash., and Angie sped me to The Sacred Heart Medical Center. No sooner had I hit the door when two doctors threw me onto a crash cart and a team of five worked to restore my airways. I was then admitted to the hospital for five days. That was in 1992.

Seventeen years later and 500 miles to the north I knew that my chances of surviving weren’t so good.

The clinic I stumbled into last fall was brimming with three dozen patients; many waiting hours to see one doctor who had been at work since 8 that morning. Angie helped me walk to the reception desk and declared to a young woman that I was having trouble breathing.

“Take a number and I will call you when it is your turn,” she said in a cold voice.

Angie protested and said something about my condition being critical.

“Everybody here thinks their condition is critical,” said the girl.

Angie knew that I couldn’t sit and still breathe, so she propped me against a wall and strode into the examining area. Inside there were an assortment of people, some simply needing to get a refill on their prescription, others included junkies just wanting a fix. She had to physically force herself in front of someone entering one of the tiny examining rooms. The Russian doctor listened and helped her walk me to the examining table.

He laid me down and began to administer oxygen before he undertook a frantic search for Ventolin, an emergency drug for asthmatics that was apparently in short supply.

By now I was gasping for air. My bronchi were almost completely swollen shut. I felt myself losing consciousness.

Some time later my eyes opened and I managed a satisfactory breath after the over-wrought doctor slammed adrenaline into my vein. Two hours later, when he finally checked me out to go home (there were no hospital beds available in Calgary that night) he told me in broken English how he thought I was lucky to be alive.

Next month I will go back to that clinic. I will line up and wait two to four hours to get a flu shot; a vaccination that could save my life in a nation with Third World health care.

Canada offers many great things. But someday I will return to my home, the United States. I just hope it is the United States I left and not just another country that has sold out to the siren call of socialism and the mediocrity it brings.

The True Cost of Obamacare
I have no doubt from my own experiences that health care in the United States is better than in Canada. But of course the Obama administration’s single-minded approach to instituting universal health care is about money.

Last June in an ABC special Obama proclaimed, “The status quo is untenable… It is bankrupting families, bankrupting businesses and bankrupting our government at the state and federal level. So we know things are going to have to change.”

What Obama is really saying is that if the government runs things the quality of health care will be just as good as before and the cost of it will be a lot lower. But when was the last time you saw the federal government do a good job of managing anything? Consider that Washington has grown the national debt from $5 trillion in 1995 to almost $12 trillion this year while damn near reprising the Great Depression.

Health policy experts say guaranteeing coverage for all Americans may cost $1.5 trillion over the next 10 years. That is more than double the $634 billion “down payment” the Democrats are trying to sell.

Meanwhile, America will be adding another huge bureaucracy, about the last thing the world’s largest indebted nation needs. If you don’t believe me consider what has happened in Britian.

According to the Aug. 13, 2009 Examiner.Com, “England’s health care program is the third largest employer in the world and their citizens are getting anything but health care.”

To read the entire story click here.

Debt, the Dollar and Your Financial Health
The United States is increasing its national debt at a dizzying pace. Socialized medicine will only accelerate this trend. That is exactly what happened to Canada when universal health care was introduced in 1968. Over the next decade Canada’s national debt soared. In time it had Canadian dollar investors rushing for the exits.

In 1968 the Canadian dollar stood at par with its U.S. counterpart. Fifteen years later the Canadian dollar had lost nearly a third of its value. This period coincided precisely with Pierre Trudeau, Canada’s Prime Minister (1968-1984), whose Liberal government shamelessly socialized Canada.

Yet many Canadians survived and even prospered during the Trudeau years by diversifying out of the Canadian dollar and buying physical gold. From 1971 to 1980 the price of gold in Canadian dollars rose C$35 per ounce to over C$1,000 per ounce!

Action to take: Watching the Obama administration is frighteningly reminiscent of the Trudeau years. And while I can only pray that America doesn’t revert to socialized medicine I can offer sound advice when it comes to your money. Given the current political and economic conditions I urge you to put at least 10 percent of your investible assets in physical gold. I recommend 1-ounce South African Krugerrands, Canadian Maple Leafs or American Eagles. Call your local coin dealer or if you need one, we recommend Asset Strategies International in Rockville, Md., 800-831-0007 or 301-881-8600 or go to www.assetstrategies.com.

Yours for real wealth and good health,

John Myers

Myers’ Energy and Gold Report

John Myers

is editor of Myers’ Energy and Gold Report. The son of C.V. Myers, the original publisher of Oilweek Magazine, John has worked with two of the world’s largest investment publishers, Phillips and Agora. He was the original editor for Outstanding Investments and has more than 20 years experience as an investment writer. John is a graduate of the University of Calgary. He has worked for Prudential Securities in Spokane, Wash., as a registered investment advisor. His office location in Calgary, Alberta, is just minutes away from the headquarters of some of the biggest players in today’s energy markets. This gives him personal access to everyone from oil CEOs to roughnecks, where he learns secrets from oil insiders he passes on to his subscribers. Plus, during his years in Spokane he cultivated a network of relationships with mining insiders in Idaho, Oregon and Washington.

Facebook Conversations

Join the Discussion:
View Comments to “Living & Damn near Dying with Socialized Medicine”

Comment Policy: We encourage an open discussion with a wide range of viewpoints, even extreme ones, but we will not tolerate racism, profanity or slanderous comments toward the author(s) or comment participants. Make your case passionately, but civilly. Please don't stoop to name calling. We use filters for spam protection. If your comment does not appear, it is likely because it violates the above policy or contains links or language typical of spam. We reserve the right to remove comments at our discretion.

Is there news related to personal liberty happening in your area? Contact us at newstips@personalliberty.com

  • Mona Benge

    Interesting sales pitch for buying gold I guess. I have no idea if his anecdote is true but to suggest that the US system is better is silly. US health care ranks 37 by the world health organization. The US spends more on health care per capita than any other industrialized nation and the health outcome is no better.

    I am Canadian, living in BC. We pay $96. premium per month for both my husband and I. Horror stories can be found in every system and if true, I feel sorry for Mr. Myers that he went through this but my experience and that of everyone in my family has been exactly the opposite. My mother just had emergency brain surgery, five weeks in the hospital and two months of outpatient care. For that she merely showed her medical card and was not charged anything more. No deductibles and no co-pays.

    In Canada under the universal system which by the way Obama is not proposing, no one is denied coverage for a pre-existing condition. You cannot lose coverage if you lose or change your job. There are no deductibles or co-pays. There are wait times sometimes to see a specialist and for non-urgent surgeries. Some surgeries like my mother’s cataracts can be paid for privately if you don’t want to wait for the access in the public system.

    What you are being offered in the US is an option in order to cover the 46 million people without health care in the richest country in the world. That is by the way, more than the whole population of Canada. There is so much misinformation being bandied about by critics of health care reform it sounds like gossip in a highschool. How can so many people be so gullible as to believe the lies such as in Canada one cannot choose one’s own doctor. In the US millions of people cannot choose a Doctor at all because they don’t have insurance. That is unacceptable. It’s not like insuring your car for heaven’s sake. We are talking about people’s lives and insurance companies making the decision whether to cover you or not. That is rationed care.

    Eight years of Republican domination in all three executive branches of government and no reasonable reform of the health care system, an economic system in collapse that affected the whole world. Why would anyone believe them? It is beyond me. Do your research. Go to factcheck.org, snopes.com or even CNN.com/healthcare and you can see what the lies are.

    • Rudy

      I’m also a dual citizen,grew up in Canada and moved to the US in 1995.
      I never had complaints about the Canadian situation until my son was injured playing hockey this year;I was there watching and took him to the nearest hospital;he needed stiches to his upper lip.We waited in emergency for 12 hours before he was called,the place was packed.
      I also didn’t realize the cost in Canada until I received my first pay cheque in the US,a tremendous reduction in my income tax just for moving,Canadians think it’s free because it comes off their paycheque and they haven’t experienced anything else.The OHIP deficit at the time I moved was $16 billion;don’t know what it is now.
      Why we have several million uninsured here is a good question,some by choice,some illegal;no one is denied care.We have many unhealthy people by choice,I see people everyday drive to their mailbox???
      The Republicans were not in power for 8 years;the last 2 years of president Bush,the democrats were in power.

      • eyeswideopen

        Rudy,
        You need to check the facts, the Republicans had control of both houses of Congress from 1995 thru 2006. You are right it was 11 years not 8. You can find that info on the internet at http://uspolitics.about.com/od/usgovernment/l/bl/_party_division_2.htm
        In 2001 the Dem’s had control for 30 days, then it reverted back to us.

        • DaveH

          Yes Eyes, and a large portion of the spending that is attributed to Bush came in the last two years when the Democrats controlled both houses of Congress. All you have to do is look at the Congressional record and see which party votes most for the spending bills.

          • eyeswideopen

            I did, and the biggest one was in 2003 the Medicare Advantage bill.

      • Richie

        I feel ya Rudy! I played Football in my high school and college days and unfortunately all of my injuries occurred playing in Canada. I spent 3 hours twice in a hospital with my shoulder dislocated waiting on a bed to free up so they could knock me out and slam it back in. I also busted my chin and bled in a packed full emergency room waiting for a doctor to sew me up.

        I also lived in the states growing up and I was with my father and sister when my sister broke her arm on Labor Day weekend. Doctors galore were on holidays but sure enough my sister walked into the emergency room. My father flashed the insurance card and within an hour my sister was given pain killers and prepared for surgey. We walked right in though because of our insurance.

        Options are what are crucial and as John Myers highlighted there isn’t many options for people these days.

      • Bill

        Perhaps the the biggest difference between US and Canadian health care is that we in Canada firmly believe that everyone is entitled to good healthcare regardless of their financial cicumstances and pre medical conditions. A stark reminder of this is that it was reported that the US had ordered 46 mil. doses of the H1N1 flu vacine while Canada has ordered 50 mil. doses for a population 1/10th the size of the US. The statistics for longevity, child birth survival, etc. etc. are much better in Canada than the US. These facts along with many others don’t jibe with the belief that the US system is so great. Many of us have individual anecdotal experience with health care in both countries. Trying to get reasonably quick help for my wife for extreme back pain in Naples, Fla. was a nightmare. As a corollary to this and as a resident of Toronto, I was able to choose when I was to have hip replacement surgery. It is wrong to judge a system on anacdotal incidents. It is wise to stay objective and look at the facts.

        • eyeswideopen

          Agree.

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          I also heard it is widely accepted that “Hey, we dont need a military, the good of US of A that we crap on everytime we can will protect us and save us. Yeah, its kind of like that.

          • rodin

            You’re a fool. All you’re doing is spouting FOX news anti-Canadian propaganda. Why don’t you instead read a little history. Canada was well involved in World War II way before the US was forced to give up their profiteering and actually commit. World War I saw more Canadian troops die as a percentage of the country’s population than any other foreign country involved. Canada fought side by side with the US and UN in Korea, has been in almost every UN peacekeeping mission since and has a huge presence in Afghanistan taking on areas that are too dangerous for the Europeans. Canada DID not get involved with the 2nd IRAQ mission, much to its own credit as it’s Prime Minister at the time probably had a lot more sense than George W Bush. It was involved with the first mission under his daddy and provided navy and logistical support. How DARE you propagate the notion that Canada has been a leech on the US tit. Definitely not true.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            Fact is Rodin, they dont have a military capable of defending their own country, and thats a fact. The good old US of A has their back, always has, and always will. Good that they contribute to helping, they should. Of course so should France and Germany but they dont, and will be the first to call for us to save their butts, again. Canada treats us like crap, for enjoying all the benefits they get for just living next to us. Now shut up and get back to your boyfriend you little homo.

        • Uninsured Person

          I’m a Very Proud American who is married to a Canadian man I know a little about the Canadaian system because I have lived there .
          I had to pay for my doctor visits there which was fine but because I would not pick Canada as my country & give up my citizenship in America when I needed a test forget about it, it didn’t happen . My inlaws are now very anxious about their healthcare because of the sad state it is in & belive me they sure tax enough for it, there should be NO problems but just like any other country you also have your problems.
          As of now we have no healthcare but are not refused care we pay $65.00 for our doctor visits which so far have been lucky enough to pay but even if we couldn’t we have health department clinics for nearly free care. These are state & county run not FEDERAL the FEDS need to stay out of our business ! just like our constitution demands ! Also I had a major heart attack was taken in as soon as my family could get me in the door & the only reason I wasn’t taken in a ambulance was because my arrival time was 2minutes away it was faster not to wait for a ambulance, I was treated just as good as if I were a rich person taken in the Cath. Lab from the Emergency Room & put in intensive care for the total of my stay where I was also treated well. I continue to be unisured & that is where our system is broken it begins with the Illegals here hijacking our taxes for their needs housing,food,utilities, HEALTHCARE, where they are treated just like any American because no matter what Canadians may have heard Americans are not evil we are the most giving nation on planet earth.. We could buy very expensive insurance because of pre-exsiting conditions it wouldn’t be worth having this is where we need our legislaters to do something ! Like stop taking BRIBE Money from the Lobbist in DC then actually do something to fix it ! So I’ll thank you if you don’t tell things that are untrue about my BELOVED AMERICA !

    • T Garland

      Sorry to hear that but I too live in both Canada and US and had both my children here in US and have nothing but HORROR stories having my children here- both were considered preexisting conditions so I was not covered either time, and while I never had any problems at any walk-in clinics in Canada staying at most 4 hours but I was also an above average healthy female but here in US my one experience in a “TOP ER” I spent over 8 hours only to be given the wrong diagnosis and while I do not believe in abortion what the Dr told us had made us consider it, only to find out later the Dr was completely wrong and we ended up having the healthiest beautiful little girl, maybe if my husbands work hadnt cut our healthcare and we had top coverage still I would have had an easier time in ER but we are still paying bills for my childbirths!! Awful thank god I didnt have anything actually wrong with me I would hate to deal with insurance then!!!

    • Connie M.

      Hello, you say to do research at factcheck and snopes, but do those people have a record for successfully predicting the future? I ask that because they can only predict how the new plan would work by relying on what people are saying now. My point is that some of the things that the President says, for example, make no sense at all.

      Currently, in the U.S., when someone goes to an emergency room they are treated, no matter who they are or wheather they will pay or if they have insurance. When people won’t or can’t pay, the rest of us end up paying because of higher prices that must be charged to make up for the non-payers. So, currently, illegal aliens receive health care, but President Obama keeps saying they won’t be covered under his plan, but he doesn’t say what will happen to them. Also, he says we can save money on Medicare(which covers those over 65 and some disabled people), but Medicare already pays only about one-third of what the doctor, etc. charge. If we were all under a plan like Medicare, I don’t know how doctors and hospitals, etc. would be able to continue to operate(that is, if their gross income is cut to a third of what it is now). BTW, I have heard higher figures as far as what Medicare pays, but I am saying “about one-third” because that is what I saw on my mother’s Medicare statements.

      I would be in favor of a plan to help people with pre-existing conditions, but you can not just order the insurance companies to cover those conditions. If insurance companies had to cover every pre-existing condition on individual policies, everyone could wait until they got sick to buy insurance. Rates would then go through the roof or insurance companies would just not offer individual policies.

      One more point is that our infant mortality rate, and therefore life expectancy, is skewed because some countries don’t count a live birth unless the child lives 24 hours or they don’t count a live birth if the pregnancy is less than a certain number of weeks. We count every child born with any sign of life.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        This pre-existing condition crap exists only because people did that. They didnt want to pay insurance premiums through work, so they saved that money. Then they developed something, and would hurry up and sign up for insurance to get it covered, and thats how it all started. Then it is crap that we have to pay for all these illegals that get free health care. Why? Do you think Obamacare will turn them away? No, forget about it. Its going to get even worse, and the rest of us will keep paying for them with higher and higher premiums. We will lose many top quality doctors, who will flee to somewhere else, and in the future, there will be a shortage because kids arent going to spend all those years in medical school when the payback isnt there anymore. This crap where this so called World Health whatever says we are 37th in the world in health care, is a big lie. We have the best in the world. Its those that dont want to pay premiums, those that dont want to work, illegal aliens getting free care, and all this mixture of baloney that prostitutes whatever figures they are coming up with. If we are so bad, then why in the hell do people from socialized medicine countries, continually come here and pay for medical procedures that are free in their own country? Maybe its a lie, and its not free. Maybe they cant wait 6 months to be seen. Maybe it is inadequate care. Maybe their doctors dont know what they are doing. I dont know, but I do know this, they still come here. Gee, I wonder why. Not because were 37th, I guarantee you that.

        • Smilee

          You clearly do not understand how prexisting conditions coverage works, Medicare by law requires everyone to belong and the insurance companies who underwrite that upplement insurance have to do it as well as well as they cannot change the coverage or drop you and that is one way they are thinking of it now for all and the insurance companies love it because they want all these new customers as well but of course they are fighting this part of it but this will happen. The World Health Organization is only one of three studies on this that have been done and guess what they all have the US at 37th and is universally accepted as an accurate portrayal to everyone but the conservatives here in the US who will spin any fact or create any lie to try and get support for their killing of any reform. The special interests are behind this effort as well

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            I may not fully understand, you are correct in that statement sir. However, I do know some hospital personnel, that have to look into things such as this, and told me how you wouldnt believe how many people that havent been under an insurance policy, then when they find they need a back surgery, or chemo-therapy or something expensive of the sort, then they go to get insurance. Well, if I were an insurance company, I wouldnt all the sudden want to be responsible for all these high dollar bills coming in either. To me this is a scam, to get over on the system. Im sure there are other things that are involved in this pre-existing condition thing, and maybe some arent right, but this case I cited that happens all to often isnt right either, and its not the insurance companies fault. But I agree, it is a mess, and things should not cost what they do, but then again, Alex Rodriguez shouldnt be making 25 million dollars a year either, but people still pay to see him play, so what are you gonna do?

      • Smilee

        Factcheck and Snopes do not predict anything they just check on the truthfulness of the given subject and give the sources of their research and are both known to be objective that’s why conservatives make up all kinds of negative stories about them as they have done a good job of proving and verifying their lies and also of the liberals when they catch them in lies but liberals never criticize their work. The private insurance companies that underwrite medigap health insurance for seniors by law cannot deny for preconceived conditions or change or drop your coverage and it has worked just fine for over forty years, they can very well make a law outlawing it and they are going to, just wait and see,

    • Lena

      Mona,
      I was born in the states, lived there half my life and now reside in Canada. I prefer Canada at the moment but not because of health care. When I broke my arm in the states and went to the hospital I was one of the fortunate people who was covered under my parents and they zoomed me in and gave me a nice shot of morphine. I luckily have not found myself in too many accidents in Canada but waiting for something as simple as a prescription refill can take hours. I agree with Mr. Myers that if America is to bring in a government run health care system it could be devastating to people. As soon as the government sees the costs to support such a system things could start to get real messy. The government will want to start cutting costs and things will go downhill from there.
      In Canada, when I go to a clinic for a cold medicine or to get a refill on something the waiting rooms are swarming with junkies. You would think these doctors would shoo them away but the truth is physicians make a profit for every prescription they write. Pharmaceutical companies are the enemy. Releasing medicines that endanger people and charging a crap load of money for them too. Everything is a scam really. Occassionally you will find a true doctor who really wants to help and not get you hooked on something. These are the ones you want to go back to… no matter what the wait.

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      Notice how she says she lives in B.C. in Canada, which is immune to whether a democrat or republican is in office here, yet she chooses to slam the republicans in her last paragraph. If any of you really believe she lives in Canada and her report on health care there is accurate, then you need to move there. I know a liar when I hear one. You are a democrat spreading lies to further your parties cause. Otherwise, being a supposed Canadian, you would not side with a republican or a democrat. You exposed yourself totally with the lies you tell. I have talked with people there, including a guy I spent a week fishing with, who had the exact same story as this couple, except his dad died awaiting to be seen. A true Canadian would not make a statement bashing either a democrat or a republican in this country, because it would have no effect on you. You Maam, are a left wing liberal pacifist appeasing lying democrat from the United States, and I know it, you know it, God knows it, and the American people know it.

      • eyeswideopen

        Beber, I don’t know which Canadian you were slaming, but the name calling was exceptional. I don’t really see where either one was taking a liberal side.. Did you read the rules for this site?

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          That would be Mona Benge from 8-26-09 at 7:16 a.m., where she slams the republicans, which prove everything I said. And calling a liar a liar, is not name calling, its the truth. And the truth my friend, will set you free. Yes, I read the rules, and if someone is going to pull an out and out lie, you can bet Im going to expose them for it when it is that obvious. And left wing pacifist appeaser is not name calling, that is a way of life for many misinformed people, who have not yet studied up that pacifism and apppeasement have lost everytime they were practiced.

          • eyeswideopen

            The lying democrat part, you just brush that aside? oh of course that is not name callling.
            Pacifism is not bad word in this country. Maybe you should look up the definition, it’s: Opposition to war or violence as a means of resolving disputes….and you think that is bad? So, you want to just grab a bat and beat the hell out of any one who disagrees with you?? Nice.
            Pacifism is how the VietNam war was stopped, or did you like that war too? The college kids in this country came out and marched to stop that war. It was hard to coordinate as we didn’t have the cell phones, or internet, but we got the job done.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            Well lets see, the lying democrat part you take issue with. Nancy Pelosi, Ted Kennedy, Joe Biden, Barack Obama, Barbara Boxer, Diane Feinstein, Barney Frank, Howard Dean, Tom Daschle, Chris Dodd, and many more. I rest my case. Pacifism with the enemy is what Im talking about. Our so called current leaders are going around and apologizing to our enemy’s, pacifying them, and that is a sure fire road to defeat, and if you dont realize that, then you need some education. And yes, when in war with a country, I do want to take a bat and bash them with it, not sit down and have a glass of wine with them and ask them how their day is going. Remember, these people we are at war with, have stated in everyway possible, that they want us dead, will not rest until we are dead, and will kill themselves to make us dead. Do you not understand that? It doesnt matter if we walk away, they are still going to come after us and try to kill us, and if you dont understand and realize that, no one can help you because your dilusional. This is the facts of how it is. And Pacifism did not end the Vietnam war. A democrat JFK started it, a democrat, LBJ escalated it and made millions of dollars for his business cronies, which if you check it out, thats a fact also. Nixon, a republican ended it, not that he is no angel mind you. That war and this war are two totally separate entities, and anyone that even remotely tries to tie them together as the same thing isnt too brilliant ok, lets leave it at that. Vietnam was a political war, and millions were made by those running it. There was no imminent threat to us there at all. This war now, yeah, these guys want us dead. It doesnt matter if its in Iraq, Syria, Iran, Afghanistan, or wherever, but the Islamic facist world wants us dead and Israel dead, and they wont rest until it is fulfilled, or they are stopped. So what you gonna do? Sit down and talk with them, while they plan your demise, or are you gonna man up and take it to them and knock them out before they get to powerful to handle. Me myself, Ill take option B. I really dont want to wait for them to blow stuff up over here again and again and again. How many times did they strike under Clinton? He did nothing. Did they stop, heck no, they kept doing it. They attacked one time too many, and Bush said thats it, and rolled up his sleeves and took off the pansy gloves at it was on. How many times have they hit us since? Geez, not once. Imagine that. If you cant understand why, then again, I cant help you, but you know, I dont like war either, not too many people do. But I am wise enough to know, and history shows this to be true over and over and over, peace is achieved by force. Has been since the Biblical days, and will be until the end when Jesus comes again. Sometimes you gotta fight when your a man. You can do two things. One, just stand there and keep getting hit and hit and hit and do nothing and hopelessly hope they stop, or you can strike back and make them stop. Me, I say make them stop. I really dont see anything wrong with that. Sorry, I dont see a thing wrong with that.

          • eyeswideopen

            I am probably sensitive about VietNam, lost my brother-in-law, 6 of my friends, and although I acknowledge it was a political war our human losses were horrible.

            I don’t believe we had enough information or facts to strike a pre-emptive war in Iraq. I could understand Afganistan, but not Iraq. There was a balance of power between Iran and Iraq and we had no right to go into Iraq.

            War should be a last resort. What it has cost us is unbelievable.
            They killed 3700 of us and we sent 4000 additional to their deaths.
            The money is just out of control. We have lost our ethics by using torture, and we no longer have the right to ever voice an opinion on any human atrocity committed by any country.We have now put our own soliders and civilians in harm’s way by allowing the CIA to use torture. These wars are a long way from being finished, and I am a little resentful that we could have prevented having the problems we now have financially.
            And my party has been turned into a bunch of hypocrites who will stop at nothing to reaquire power or to quote Cato ” We know by infinite examples and experiences that men possessed of power, rather that part with it, will do anything, even the worst and the blackest, to keep it”. See Dave, I did read it.

    • John Myers

      Dear Mona,

      I am not claiming that the U.S. healthcare system is not seriously flawed. What I am saying is that healthcare for those fortunate enough to be insured in America is better than it is for Canadians with universal insurance.

      I do appreciate your thoughtful comments.

      • Lena

        I couldn’t agree more with you Mr. Myers! Healthcare is better for wealthy Americans who can afford it. Whereas in Canada everyone gets the same treatment regardless of money. Sometimes people need to make sacrifices and work together for the greater good. Canada’s healthcare could definitely use some improvements… but at least everyone is entitled to it.

        • Aydin Bircan

          There are no “perfect” health system in the world but French and British systems comes close to it with their own flaws, which can be blown out of proportion. But you are right, every body has it,like in Canada…For a health care system to be useful and effective, must be accessible and high quality. Those two countries, and many others, achieved that decades ago…We have pockets of very high quality health care (albeit very expensive) but not accessible by the millions who needs it. Public option plan is the closest we can get for universal accessibility which creates a uniquely American system without copying anything from all those backward, socialist countries, like France, Canada, Sweeden, Germany, England, Italy, Denmark, Holland, Norway, Japan, Taiwan, Switzerland, Spain even Mexico, Costa Rica, Panama and many others…:)))All those countries have some sort of universal, public-private health care system…We are the only and the richest country in the world have to pay bribe to insurance companies to get something in semblence to a health care but constantly be dissapointed with it…This has to stop.
          So I agree with you.

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          Now see, Ive read that before, about wealthy Americans affording healthcare, insinuating that if your not wealthy, you cant afford it, and I dont believe that for one minute. I was raised one of 6 children, with only my father working, who never made more than 10 dollars an hour up to when he retired in 1988, and we had health care for all 6 of us. Im now 51, and have worked all my life, and Ive always had health care for me and my wife and 2 children, and up until 5 years ago, I was averaging 40 grand a year, and now im in the 50 range, so Im not rich by anymeans, and everything I need healthcare wise is met. I pay 60 bucks a week premiums, which are up from the 40 bucks I paid 13 years ago when I started here, but like when I had a knee surgery 4 years ago, the bill was over 8 grand. I paid close to 800 bucks out of pocket and insurance paid the rest. Not to bad, could be better, but not too bad. So I really dont see what all the uproar is about, other than there seems to be a whole lot of people standing around with their hand out, and they want Uncle Sam, which is you and I that work, to pay for everything for them. That is reason 1 I do not want national health care. It aint broke, dont fix it. Tune it up a little, get the costs down, and its all good. But if the government starts running it, look out, its going down the drain. Look at the fine job theyve done with all our social security money, and what they do with our billions of tax dollars we give them. And you want them to run the health care, with all the billions from it. Gotta be crazy.

    • DaveH

      Speaking of the websites Mona, not you: “Figures don’t lie but liers can figure”.

      • Smilee

        You ought to know Dave

    • y t

      Mona, you wrote it so beautifully and eloquently. Unfortunately, I would guess about 50% of the voter population in USA is brainwashed in black & white republican ideology for last 150 years, which is nothing but obsolete and lacking even the basic commonsense. That is the reason why USA can have a dumb person like GW as the president.

      • DaveH

        That’s a joke. Until Foxnews came on the scene, the only news we got was liberally biased. I have listened to that liberal government-building propaganda for most of my life and watched as our purchasing power over the years steadily declined. Republicans have definitely been a part of the government growth but as anyone who reads the Congressional Record can testify – the Democrats have been the Big Government party. If government is the solution, then why after 30 years of government growth are you liberals still whining about our conditions? If Big Government was the solution, there would be no poor countries in the world. No, the solution is much more subtle than that, so it takes some real study and thinking to know the answer.
        If you are a government employee, then I guess I can understand you wanting more government. If you just have aspirations of feeding at the trough, and want to benefit from other peoples’ sweat, then good luck, because I think you are sorely mistaken. The politicians want you for your approval and vote, but when push comes to shove and they are through with you, you who haven’t bothered to educate yourselves or learn skills or work hard are going to be at the bottom of the heap.

        • Jack

          DaveH:

          If you rely on Fox News or its cable shows for your news and information then you are going to be greatly misinformed because
          what you are really getting is Rupert Murdoch’s propaganda. If you just would take the time to check what they say on those programs you would find that it is absolutely WRONG. The same is true for Rush.

          That is why survey’s of people who mainly get their information from Fox and Rush show that they are very misinformed on the issues. In 2006 almost 2/3 of those people still believed that weapons of mass distruction had been found in Iraq, that Saddam Hussein was working with al Qaeda and was involved in the 9-11 attack on the World Trade Towers. Even President George Bush had admitted several times in televised events that these clais were false.

          Now before you start screaming that I am a liberal, socialist, commie pinko – I have been a registered Repuiblican since 1968. I just happen to believe that the truth is the truth even if we don’t like it or it doesn’t support our preconceived notions.

          In this healthcare reform debate, what I don’t see is the Democrats and supporters of reform telling lies about what “reform” is about or what the proposed bills would do. On the other hand, for those who oppose health care reform, I see Republican politician after Republican politician and front group after front group telling one lie after another. If reform is “bad” can’t you tell the truth about it and convince the people to oppose it? If you have to make up lies, that tells me you oppose it not because it is bad, but because you want to defeat it for MONEY OR POLITICAL POWER.

          Death panels, death books, etc. all lies. Emails trying to tell you what the bills say on particular pages but when checked against what the actual bills say it turns out the emails are LYING.

          • Mona Benge

            Well said. If you have to lie to make your point then your point is not worth making. Did you see Betsy McGaughey (spelling?) on the Daily Show. She is the one who started the whole death panel thing but it was Sarah Palin that called them “death panels”. It is worth watching. And that strange woman senator from Wisconsin who just told her supporters to kneel down, pray and fast to stop health care reform. Where do these people come from?

          • eyeswideopen

            Jack,
            You were able to say, what I have been trying to for days. Thank you! Everyone on this site thinks that if you admit that the Republicans made mistakes and we don’t believe the lies that are the RNC,Rush, Hannity, Glenn and Senatorial talking points, we must be liberals.

          • Smilee

            Jack

            Finally a honest man with integrity on the subject, Thanks

          • Smilee

            If you take the time to read all of DaveH posts you will know his completely misinformed on almost all subjects

          • DaveH

            Jack,
            Have any of you people who support this bill actually looked at the main one from the House of Reps (HR 3200)? It is nauseating. They should call it the “The Lawyer and Civil Servant Full Employment Act of 2009″. Before you Liberals (I define Liberal as anyone who supports Big Government) call anyone else a liar, or force your fellow citizen through Big Government to pay taxes and be subject to a program they may not even want, you should read this bill thoroughly.
            http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h3200/text#

          • DaveH

            Note that 80% of the viewers of the bill oppose it.

          • DaveH

            With all these accusations of lying, I feel I need to make a point.
            I was married to a chronic liar for 13 years. I knew she was lying, but her victims didn’t. It’s not easy to know if someone is lying or not unless you have full grasp of both sides of the story and you know the accuser is not indeed the liar. All most of us have is the word of someone else as to which person is the liar and which one is not.
            I am a betting man (bet only when the probabilities are on my side), and knowing for a fact that Democrats love to take and spend other people’s money (I call that theft), I have no trouble believing that they are more often the liars also.

          • DaveH

            And thank you Smilee for referring the viewers to my comments. I need the free publicity. Without your help, they may not have been exposed to someone who thinks clearly, doesn’t want money or other favors from anybody, and is beholden to nobody.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            One thing to note here. During the Clinton administration, the United Nations sent inspectors to Iraq, and came back with a huge list of weapons of mass destruction that Saddam did have there at that time. Now when we went in, they werent there, so your saying they didnt exist. So why were they inventoried and had a list made of them during the Clinton admin when the United nations sent inspectors in there? I know if they were there, then they werent there, that they had to go somewhere, and someone still has them. And dont blame Bush for the thoughts on WMD’s. I seen Bill Clinton, John Kerry, Ted Kennedy and all of them on TV, before Bush was even elected, crying from the mountain tops how dangerous this guy was and how he had weapons of mass destruction and he had to be stopped. They had the same intelligence Bush had. Now if they thought that, and they voted to go in, how is it that it is all one guys fault? Myself, I see no fault, the guy is a hero to me to follow through with freeing millions of people. History in time will tell of his greatness. For now, the left wing media crucifies him, but in time, the truth always comes out. Fear not lefties, it shall come out again.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            Rupert Murdoch’s Fox New is the only truthful news on the TV anymore. They report, I decide. ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN and MSNBC have allready told us what to think when they report their very biased news and they hold no reservations about it. They are blatently biased. Fox I find tells the truth, and smacks both sides when need be. I have never, and I mean never seen ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN or MSNBC ever, ever, say a bad word about the democrats or their policies.

      • Carol K

        y t,

        I guess Obama is a genius….like when he referred to the “Austrian language” while he was there. Hello….I do believe they speak German! What about that classy gift he gave P M Gordon Brown?? A set of American dvds that don’t work on British players. He’s not very bright, just a good speaker. Let’s stop with the “dumb” GW comments…that is so over.

        • Mona Benge

          I’m sure he can only aspire to your level of intellect.

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          Good speaker? As long as the telestrator is working.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        I would like to sit GW down with you, and give you both IQ tests, then laugh my butt off at you when we find out who the real dummy is. Yeah, its kind of like that.

    • Carol K

      I had a hysterectomy last year and paid a total of $160 in co-pays. Had I been in the UK or Canada, I would still be waiting for that surgery. If we get Obama’s socialized health care here, we’re probably going to be paying 50% – 70% of our paychecks in taxes. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see that’s not FREE. Why are so many people from Canada coming here to have surgery and get treated? Makes you wonder……..
      The democrats have had control of congress since ’06 and that’s why we’re in the fix we’re in now.

      • Smilee

        Carol K

        You ae one mixed up gal, our health care system has been gradually getting bad for thirty years or more and you think this happened in the last three years, Unbelievable, Jack above moaned about all the lies that are being told by those opposed to reform are telling and he is one of the few honest republicans I have seen on this sight most will say anything and the truth be damned to kill reform and seem to have no concern for what will happen if the status quo is maintained. It is something this country will pay dearly for if we do nothing and you are a contributer to this effort of killing reform. I know quite a few in Canada and they tell me the horror storeies told here are BS. I live in MN a border state and many without insurace here go to Canada for servicss at a lot lower cost. A woman recently had her baby there by C-section and it was $10,000.00 less than in the US and she said the medical care there was as good as any she got here. Those telling you it is free are those who oppose reform, it will not be free but accessible and a lot cheaper. Why is it that almost all countries can provide health care at about half the cost and nobody on this site raises the question, Why can’t we. Like Jack above said why to those here have to lie about this if the truth supported their claims, the fact is they would not lie if it did but it doesn’t, Use your head.

        h

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          I have to take issue here. 10,000.00 less? I dug up some old files, and I know we have inflation and all, but 7 years ago I didnt even pay 10,000.00 for a C-Section, so how was it 10,000 dollars less? Someone is getting hosed.

          • Smilee

            This was in the newspaper Startrib last week and she is quoted as saving she saved $10,000.00, I would think she would know as she paid the bill, about three months ago one of the local tv news programs did a piece on this and another couple from MN had vitro fertilization twice the first time in the US at $25,000.00 and then in Canada and it cost $15,000.00 also a saving of $10,000.00. Costs have doubled and more the last 7 years.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Smilee had a labatomy, and Medi-Care paid for it all.

  • ONTIME

    Americans know that they need to reform to some degree the way we recieve and pay for medical attention but they also know that this socialistic scam the Democrats are running is not the answer, the government cannot grab it’s butt with both hands when it comes to running or managing entitlements. That is a perfectly demonstrable statement and there is more than enough evidence.

    The enforcement of ethic by use of decent regulation of the insurance offered in the free market can be utilized but the graft and corruption that is willingly offered and greedily accepted by politicians who will throw a monkey wrench in any well intentioned plan that involves public monies.

    This indicates that were the public more willing to enforce the laws they approve of and make the execs and the politicians tow the line upon pain of prosecution and incarceration, we could police and have a good competitive, productive medical coverage that is being sought but that entails a educated population that really wants this Republic to thrive and succeed…we have to many lazy people who would rather be victims.

    We get what we vote for because we are to lazy to police the end results. Present scenario is a great example.

    • Jeff

      With all the arguing I hear on the news, it bothers me that no one seems to be saying what really is written in the health care bill. It would be great if we could all get good health care cheaply, but the reality is that the government is using this as a means to gain more control over the people. I started reading the bill myself, and it made me realize that we simply can not allow this (or any like it)legislation to take place. When we hear those who say..it will take over all private insurance…”, we are hearing the truth. Obama stated that yo can keep your current coverage. The bill however, states that after Y1 (I am unclear which date this actually refers to as of now), no private insurer would be allowed to provide coverage to new clients. So, this means that all private insurance will go away, leaving only the government option. Yes, there are problems, but having only one insurer will leave us at the mercy of the insurer (the government), with no possibility of changing insurance companies. Oh well, I guess we’ll have to just deal with it. It further disturbs me that there are over 1000 pages in the bill. What is in this bill? I have only read the first 20 pages and am already upset with it because it seems to reveal to me that it is about government control more than anything. Even on the front page of the bill it says (paraphrasing a bit)…to provide health care coverage….and for other purposes.” What other purposes?

      • BOE

        Amen…finally someone has read the bill. Scary stuff ay? There are 2 bills out there and both are written with words like mandatory,required,..like something out of Hitlers manuel. And to the lady above who had surgury, if she is 70yr or older she would not have had the surg. If 55yr..maybe? Depends on how viable you will be.In other words..how soon can you go back to work to pay for welfare mama`s and the black daddy`s.

        • Smilee

          BOE

          It is clear you have not read it. I think there is five bills in the house now and all are a work in progress, the senate does not have one yet and the house does not have one ready to come to the floor yet and when it does it will be open to amendments and after each house votes for one and any differences exist then it will have to go to conference committee and back again when one version is complete for a second vote. No one knows what the final draft will look like yet to hear conservatives describe it you would think these bills are already cast in concrete. So these scare tactics you conservatives keep trying to stuff down people throats are nothing but bullshit and most things they say are not even in the existing bills. Unbelievable how many here do not understand what they themselves are saying and it appears you do not either.

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          First off, Im white, but dont be blaming all this on the “black” daddys and whatever. There are quite a few white folks out there looking for these handouts also. Quite a few. How many million blacks do we have, and how many million votes did Barack get? More white votes on a whole than black votes, and there are a lot of lazy white people out there also that like to live on government handouts. Please dont make a race issue of it, its not about that. Barack may be black, but white America elected him, as there are not nearly enough black votes to have gotten him elected. Its not a color thing, its a mindset of being a victim and thinking the world owes you a living. Its a government that punishes the successful, and rewards the failures. Its all turned around where right is wrong and wrong is right, and well, pretty much thats how the Bible says its going to be in the end days, so hold on tight, we might be close to the kick towards the finish line. But it aint about blacks and whites, so please dont go there with this.

      • Elizabeth

        Jeff,
        Finally someone who knows the truth….This health care plan is a total sham…nothing more than a way to control all aspects of our Lives. How anyone can believe this will bring them good,inexpensive healthcare is beyond any reasonable thinking. People stop playing games and start doing a little research. Jeff sounds like he has read the bill or parts of it and he is right. We are being fed a line of bull and if you really believe this is about health care then you truly deserve what this administration has in store for you but unfortunately if this passes we will all be doomed. Even if you haven’t read or understand the consequences of this health care bill you should be able to understand that the spending of this administration is beyond the realm of realistic economics and we will be in debt for many, many years to come, probably our grandchildren will still be paying off debt that has already occured……and we haven’t even begun a health care reform as yet…..Doesn’t it make you wonder why we still haven’t climbed out of this hole we have found ourselves in, deep recession, with all of the money that has been spent so far. Stimulus’s that have not done anything to bring us out of this mess……Have you paid attention to all of the “special projects” thrown in by our, democratically controlled congress and given a rubber stamp by the president…….if we were in such a “crisis” then why would most of the stimulus’s been so full of pork. This health care bill is nothing more than gaining “total” control over every aspect of our lives……..I don’t know about you but I value my privacy with a doctor….that will end….electronic documentation of all of your visits will be demanded to be sent to the governmental agencies in charge……Why so many “czars” when we already have agencies we are paying to handle some of the very things these people are being put in place for. But of course these people only report to the president. How American that is! Look up a Dr. Ezkiel Emanual…..the brother of the chief of staff…see if you like some ot the things he thinks are appropiate to impose on the people. You will be shocked……And let me tell you another thing..quit believing the lies that the conservatives are the liars…..Every single thing the left has accused us of, is something they themselves use and have cleverly turned around to make us out to be the bad guys….they bus people into rallies and townhalls and I have heard they are even paid to be there……I have seen this firthand. We are grassroots americans concerned for the liberty of this country and your freedom as well as ours…..no one pays us and no one is backing us…We come from all walks of life and have come together because of the love of our country and its welfare. START DOING SOME RESEARCH AND STOP BELIEVING ALL THE LIES YOU ARE BEING TOLD….STOP BEING LED AROUND LIKE SHEEP. And be careful what you want from your government, you just might get is and then you won’t know what hit you. GET WISE AND STOP YOUR WHINING ABOUT SOMETHING THAT WILL CHANGE AMERICA FOREVER. lEARN BEFORE YOU DEMAND A LEAP…

    • mike smith

      well said! we need level headed clear thinkers like you to be politicians, however, clear thinking honest are all words antithetical to politicians. Just look at the present crop of democains and republicrates we have now.

    • Tracy

      AMEN! I fear that under the new system the illegals will be receiving the same or even better free medical care they are now, but the taxpayers will be paying even more for that care under the Obamanation health care plan.

      • bidget34

        I agree with you Tracy! I believe that the government messed up BIG time when they agreed to allow the illegals to have benefits they have not earned. I just don’t understand how they could qualify for benefits, having never paid into SS! Our government is selling us down the river quickly. They are giving away too many benefits and too much money to those who have not earned the same.We have to qualify for benefits by working so many quarters but the illegals are not required to do anything. Why is it that some of our own citizens who have worked and paid into SS are not allowed SS benefits when they become unable to work? They are made to jump through all sort of hoops and in the long-run still denied benefits.Democrat or Republican they are all the same in so many ways and governed by the same secret people unknown to the average USA CITIZEN. It is time that our government went back to the drawing board and cleaned up many of the mistakes they have made. In doing this it would save a LOT of money that could be used on our legal citizens.

      • BOE

        to Tracy…illegels are getting the best and free care now..and we are paying for it. Best care in the world. I don`t see why we can not bill the mexican government like other country`s do. If you are in another courty and you have a MI you are treated and the bill is worked out between insurance or gov. Also when illegels come here to live other countries require you have at least a $2500. a month income.required to put 100,000. to 500,000. in the bank and you have to buy a 100,000. to 500.000. house otherwise you are shipped home.

        • Smilee

          BOE says:
          August 26, 2009 at 11:29 pm

          You are really something, illegals do not announce their arrival so just how are you going to collect that $2,500.00. Your other numbers are a joke also. Do you even believe this crap of yours, yourself??

          t

          • BOE

            Smiley..You are a IDIOT.. just google any country you want and look up the visa info buying a house and the requirements and so on . I guess if you have never been out of you own back yard you wouldn`t know this. Oh and just try to get into their coutry illegally. They will put you in jail for a while,take any cash you have on you,jewelry shoes whatever they want,starve you for a feww weeks and then may let you go home. Ps..I own a home in Panama and Ecuador. Look it up fool. Boe

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        You are 100 percent correct.

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      And it is so easy to play the victim. Seems this country is producing victims by the thousands these days. Its always someone elses fault. The government should give us everything free. This is the modern liberal think tank protecol. The illegal alien and the crack head and the guy that just doesnt want to work, they think this way also, and they all vote democrat, so they can get their little handouts. Problem is, they dont even see that they are being held down by these little handouts they get, and they keep voting for the very guys that keep them in the same position they are in year after year, instead of getting better and becoming productive members of society. And many also forget, that a government big enough to give you everything, is also big enough to take away everything – Thomas Jefferson.

    • DaveH

      There is a simple solution to the high cost of healthcare – get the government out of it! The number of medical students is limited; change that. The malpractice lawyers are out of control; change that. There are laws preventing people from buying insurance in other states, change that. In fact it puzzles me that Congress regularly passes laws that have nothing to do with interstate commerce (one of few powers granted constitutionally to the Federal Government) yet they allow states to restrict out-of-state insurers. And there are myriad other areas where the government is involved in the health-care business. Big Government is the problem, not the solution.

  • s c

    Competition, the word that useful idiots love to hate, is the heart of the solution to America’s health care ‘reform.’ Get government OUT OF THE WAY, and force health care firms and the ‘drug pushers’ to COMPETE. Government meddling solves nothing – unless you’re a career parasite looking for easy votes.
    Keep it simple. Eliminate as much paperwork and overpayments as possible. INNOVATE. Keep a short leash on money-grubbing lobby whores, find ways to make ‘leaders’ accountable, then stand back and watch as the current crop of Washington losers have to explain why they didn’t figure it out long ago [they had no reason to 'figure it out.' they're wealth-wasting, blood-sucking, criminal politicians].

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      Exactly. And when the government gets involved, they will take money from whomever gives them more, and things will only get worse. Free competition lead to better things for all of us. Capitalism works, where we reward those that excel and their business succeed. This new breed of liberals, now wants to punish those that succeed, reward those who fail, and place us all in the row of mediocrity, which will just kill this country. Theyve allready planted it in the heads of our youths, and they keep changing history on what they teach our young children, then the so called schools of higher learning teach them to tolerate everything except Jesus Christ and America. Its unreal what has happened to common sense in this country. Look how far we have regressed, that millions of people would vote into the highest office of the land, someone they know nothing about, who presented no viable plan, whome we dont even know for sure is a citizen of this country, all because his party spent millions of dollars of adds on the brain suckers in America’s living rooms, saying Change-Change-Change. It’s sad that America has become so dumbed down, that thats all it took to win the presidency of this country. I myself, look for better days ahead. We cant get much worse, thats for sure.

      • DaveH

        SC and Beberoni,
        Yep, We’ve gone from a nation of rugged pioneers risking their lives for freedom to a nation of crybabies declaring their right to ride on other people’s shoulders.

  • Doc Dolan

    Monica,

    Come out from under the covers and look around in the light of day! The best thing that ever happened to healthcare in the Buffalo, NY area (where I was born and worked in emergency medicine for many years) was Canadian Healthcare! If other ‘bordering’ hospitals are seeing what those in the Buffalo area are – it is all the argument we need to show we don’t need government run healthcare in the U.S. Period. If your system was so great and efficient-people would NOT be crossing the southern border in droves to get healthy. I rest my case. Simple facts, check them out. By the way, I happen to love Canada, and the Canadian people, some of the nicest I have ever met. I grew up crossing the border regularly and enjoyed it 100%, but I would never live there because of your government.

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      Thank you for expounding on the truth.

    • Smilee

      Crossing in droves, that is just conservative BS, not happening, I know a hell of a lot more people here who cannot afford insurance going to Canada than coming here and they have liked the care and at about 40% less cost. recently a woman in my state went there for a C-section when she had her baby and saved $10,000.00. Many are going to India and at least one insurance company will pay for that including plane fare and are saving over 50%, this is what is really happening.

      • Doc Dolan

        Smilee,

        Tell the Nurses at Buff. General and S. B. Mercy hospitals that they can go home because all of there CANADIAN PATIENTS are figments of their inmaginations! Most are way overworked (as usual) so they would probably love and extra shift or two off!

        • Smilee

          You make no sense Doc

  • http://greenway1@ngl.eastlink.ca Edwin Green

    I live in canada and I enjoy our health care the only problum is a lot of our good drs go to the US for the big bucks and thay make good money here here we are equal when it comes to health carethe sooner the US gets health care the sooner that dr will all be paid the same and not rip people of

    • T Garland

      that is true only problem with Canadian Healthcare is Drs want the big money so they come to US, I guess greed rules the world OI mean the biggest problem with US healthcare is the greedy insurance companies so I guess noone wins, but I would take Universal anyday over this US healthacre crap!

      • Laura

        For those of you who have never had to pay back financial aid…Dr.’s usually build up a debt of well over $100,000 to $200,000 in financial aid debt just to make it through school. Why shouldn’t they look for a better way to pay it back. This country will see a rapid decline in great Dr.’s if we go to Universal Health Care. No person(s) will be willing to spend hundred’s of thousands of dollars and 8-10 years in school to barely make it financially. Not only caring for patients but the financial possibilities is what drives people to seek out becoming a Dr. I am a medical biller and the problem is Insurance companies and costs. We need to create competetive private sector to decrease costs and force Insurance companies to not use the “pre-existing” condition issues to decline care or to raise premiums just because you see the Dr. once for a head cold.

        Mal practice lawyers also drive up the costs. Lawsuits that are granted enormous payoffs increase Dr.’s costs of mal practice insurance which is out of control for the Dr.’s. That’s why you do not see too many Dr.’s in private practice anymore…it’s all about the “medical groups” now. Sad. I have been in this field for 29 years and HMO’s have really created a mess too. If any of you have ever had to fight your HMO so that you can go see a Dr. that may do a procedure you need that may be “out of network” because no one in your “group” does the procedure…well then you have had just barely touched on the nightmare Universal Healthcare will be like.

        Most of you are still young…you haven’t had major issues. I feel bad for the women in Canada that was diagnosed with breast cancer and her Dr. orders chemo. Canada denied her request twice after several appeals by her and her Dr. (Which in itself took months off her life.) The Canadian Health Care system sent her a letter and told her they would pay only for alternative “end of life” programs including assisted suicide. SICK! Her Dr. contacted the “evil pharmaceutical company that carried the chemo medication….they gave it to her for free. Amazing the hypocracy our government and the lefties spew. I know for a face the pharmaceutical companies are will to assist anyone who legitametly have a financial need.

        Healthcare must be reformed but not by Universal Healthcare. Yes, everyone with or without insurance can walk in and obtain care. If your illegal, it’s free. That could be one issue with the costs. You think that our taxes are high now because of the illegals…just wait. If this Universal health plan goes through….this country will fall apart. Our ecomony is bad enough….it will get worse.

        Live in reality people…..This government just want’s more and more control over our lives. Taking away our right to private healthcare is taking away our civil rights set apart in the Declaration of Independence. This is America! Not Canada, Not Europe. My European and Canadian friends have one questions, “What are we thinking!” Our freedoms here in the US is why they are here and became citizens.

        • DaveH

          Laura,
          You left one thing out. If the Liberals think the doctors shouldn’t charge their high prices, then they should get off their lazy butts and go to 8-10 years of rigorous schooling and become a doctor themselves. It’s easy to say what another should earn when they (Liberals) aren’t willing to make the same sacrifices.
          Especially with the advent of the internet, there is no excuse for anyone who wants to do the work to become a doctor. All the government has to do is get out of the way.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            Yeah, and Smilee told them he would rather have a frontal labotomy instead of a bottle in front of me, and thats why he thinks that way. Me, Id rather have a bottle in front of me than a frotal labotomy. The difference between a conservative and a liberal.

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      Do they teach spelling in Canada?

  • W. Shelton

    Mona obviously has not read the Obamacare plan…just like President Obama, himself. I have read significant portions of HB 3200 and the alleged “misinformation” about this bill, unfortunately, is true. For instance, the allegation that end of life decisions will be made by government officials under the plan, and not doctors or family is true. The allegation that the plan illegalizes the issuance of new private health insurance policies is likewise true. Also true is that government under HB 3200 will have access to everyone’s checking or savings accounts. But do not take my work for it, you can find HB 3200 on several websites.

    Mona, herself admits that people in her immediate family have opted for private medical insurance coverage due to the wait associated with accessing the public healthcare plan in Canada. Under Obamacare, however, new private health policies are illegal. Americans would be stuck solely with the public option. The proposed Obamacare is unacceptable.

    • Mona Benge

      First of all, yes we did use the private option but what is wrong with that. It is good that we can which is exactly what you do in the states as you already have medicaid, medicare and veterans care. In other countries with universal there is also the option for private treatment.

      As for the bill, you are simply not correct about the so called death panels but if you want to keep believing be my guest. However, you still have time to change things because there is no finished bill. The Senate has not passed one out of committee but the House has. Those two then have to go into conference to be negotiated into a finished bill which then has to be voted on in both the House and the Senate. Some way to go yet.

      • Smilee

        Mona

        Finally someone here who recognizes the truth and knows how the system works

    • Smilee

      W. Shelton says:
      August 26, 2009 at 8:13 am

      Rereading your post proves to me you have not read those parts, I have and they most definitely are not what you say they are, all three of your allegations are out and out lies. You probably read one of the conservative websites that have rewritten it and that says it as you say it and I’m sure that’s where you got those lies. I have read the conservative BS bill as well and it is opposite of what the real bill says. There is not yet an Obama bill, only some bills in the house and none it the senate and all are a work in progress and one wonders reading your posts if you even understand the governmental process or is it you just have no concern about the truth

  • John C. Davidson

    One has only to examine the principles inherent in the governments policies within the VA Health system to understand how their proposed plan would effect each and every one of us. No need to review other countries’ system for examples.

  • KarenMiller

    America has one of the best health health care systems in the world,if it’s broke then fix it,I personally don’t see that it is entirely broke, there are alot of things that need improved,but lets not overhaul the whole system.We live in the USA,we don’t live in Canada or England, lets concentrate on our country not the other countries, lets do the best for our citizens.I personally believe that our president is listening to other people that he has elected to the white house,he went in there with little experience,now he is relying on other people to guide him in critical decisions.He also elected 30 some CZARS,no one checked into these people,everybody asummed that our president checked their records,some of these folk have criminal backgrounds,some used to be members of the Communist party, or still are.I for one don’t want a Gov’t run health care system, but lets see what our President comes up with next,he can’t be trusted, the Devil is in the details. Karen

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      All they need to do is somehow control the prices these pharmaceutical companies charge, and control the hospital fees and doctors charges, and it would be great. I mean, I know these guys spent years in school, and deserve to make good money, but some I see have a 4 million dollar house, and a 3 million dollar lake cottage. Is that really necessary, that they charge that much to afford all this stuff? Sorry, no one needs to make that kind of money, expecially when it is coming out of the common mans pocket.

      • DaveH

        Beberoni,
        But greed works. That’s why this country became the wealthiest in the world. My only objection to the corporate executives getting fat paychecks is when the government subsidizes them, protects them, regulates them (which has the effect of stifling their competition), or any other form of government rules which introduce inefficiencies into the free market.
        I am mystified by these people who think they need to be protected from the Big Bad Companies. I was working at a cement plant summers when I was in my late teens. A union official was telling me how the company wanted a guy to go up on high-scaffolding which was dangerous. He was afraid of getting hurt so the Union made a big stew of it and saved him. I was thinking “Why all the fuss? I would just say no, if I lost my job, oh well, there would be others”. If I don’t think a product is priced low enough, I don’t buy it!
        If we got the government the hell out of business, there would be so many new competitors and workers (former government bureaucrats/employees and company people formerly wrestling with regulation compliance) that productivity would soar and prices would plummet.

      • http://DNA Buddy

        Yes, “we” need to control pharmaceutical charges. But because of the FDA’s rules, we can’t. For one major example, only other pharma companies may produce generic drugs. Although most GMP vitamin producers have a better record of product safety, they are prohibited by law of compounding generic (or any other drugs). Regardless of the ease of following generic recipes and the vitamin producers’ process economies, the drug companies are protected from such competition by law.
        Further the Medicare Prescription Drug Act requires that Medicare is required by law to pay full retail drug prices for prescription drugs. So much for competitive bidding and/or economy of quantity purchases.
        Also, there are many drugs whose results are no better than common nutritional supplements and whose effects are often life threatening. However, there is little consideration of nutritional supplements because of the propaganda paid for by the excessive pharm charges.

        • Smilee

          Medicare D plan does not pay for prescriptions per say for the individual private insurance companies do and you pay them the premium. You pay nothing to Medicare for this part. If you are poor the government will then pay this premium or through medicaid if the rest of your Medicare is subsidized . They have paid for other things but the prescription themselves they have not. There is no regulation on costs or which drugs the insurance companies have to cover, you are locked into their plan for a year at a time, they can change the coverage on a drug at any time and leave you holding the bag for that given drug. This bill passed in 03 and signed by Bush is one to the worst bills on medical care ever passed and it has driven the cost on the advantage plan part of the bill up 14% of the government share over original Medicare plans and Obama proposes to pay the advantage plans the same as all other Medicare plans recouping this cost and thus giving you half the cost of the projected transition costs as projected by the CBO office, this is partly how he plans to pay for it.

          • American Citizen

            My understanding of the drug plan is that Medicare reimburses the insurance companies for what they pay for the drugs. There is always a co-pay by us. Then there’s that stupid “donut hole”. I hit it within six months because I take a cancer pill that costs over a thousand dollars for 90 of them. And even though the insurance company won’t pay anything until you pay another $3.000 and more yourself, you have to keep paying the premiums or they’ll drop you. It’s a big rip-off. I don’t know why Medicare got the insurance industry involved. Medicare could have done like Canada does and only agree to pay the pharmaceuticals so much for each drug. Congress screwed up here.

      • eyeswideopen

        Berberoni,
        First you want free markets, then you want to control how much money the CEO’s make and don’t like that they live in big houses. What do you really want?
        Big Pharma, is making 200 billion a year due to the passage of Medicare Advantage in 2003. It was supposed to cost 400 billion, but the White House revised the cost in 2006 to be 1.2 Trillion..it gives IBM 400million for a period of 6 yrs to cover their retired employees, and many more companies the same type of deal. It subsidizes all of the major Pharma companies. The National Institute of Health gives grants to the universities for research and allows them to patent those drugs, allowing them to profit from our grant monies. The NIH is funded by taxpayers and is supposed to serve us, not the Pharmceutical companies.
        Just so you know us Republicans voted for that wonderful deal.

        • Smilee

          I agree it was a terrible bill, but the actual figures to date indicate these projections were way high as to what is really happening. CBO projections have historically proven to be high when the time span has been completed and they can be compared to actual costs and I suspect the current projections of the proposals now on the table for new plans that they have projected will be proven the same in the end. Other projections made by private entities are less. No one can be expected to produce an accurate projection ten years out, just too many unknowns and most times they are wrong, it is just a guide and only one factor that should be considered. Conservatives want you to believe it is gospel and they too usually are proven to be wrong when all is said and done and I suspect that will be the end result here too.

          • eyeswideopen

            Smilee, do you have the new figures? I was using those from May. Thanks.

          • Smilee

            The new deficit projections that just came out are higher than may by the Obama administration do not about the CBO. Is these the figures you where talking about the ones I mentioned where done years back and are now being compared to actual figures, these where in the paper this last week, don’t remember the exact numbers but the projections the CBO made years ago where way high and this includes Medicare D which is not yet 10 years but to date they are quite a bit less than projected.

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          And if you really want to see where the cash went, check out Bill Clintons relationship with the pharmaceutical giants. Yeah, big cash there baby, but I know, you and the liberal press dont want to talk about it.

  • JDR

    I am also a Canadian living in BC.

    I don’t know where to start regarding the misinformation in this article.

    First it says that he went to a local “Clinic” we have clinics in Canada that are basically access to doctors for non-emergency issues if you are not able to get to your GP or if you don’t have a GP. This is not emergency care so if he ended up in a clinic where some receptionist was an idiot – well you clearly are not to sharp, demanding to get help would have brought an ambulance and a trip to emergency, or brought the doctor out who would have sent you to emergency.

    I have commented before about my experiences with health care in Canada, my mother had breast cancer, I had a serious fracture of my upper arm; my father and sister have both had heart conditions. All the interactions with health care have been outstanding. Emergency room treatment is rated – basically triage – so if you need a couple of stitches you may wait awhile but heart patients do not wait at all, straight to the doctor and into treatment. My fractured arm, immediate evaluation and then a couple of hours until the orthopaedic surgeon could be brought in (it was a Sunday, he was on call). Incidentally the guy that came in that day did not impress me too much, so that week when I went to see my GP I got him to refer me to another guy that a friend who is a emerge doc recommended.

    My mother’s breast cancer treatment was incredible. Her oncologist, I guy named Peter Klimo in North Vancouver, was absolutely amazing. Look him up, he is world renowned, I have never been more impressed with any individual in business medicine or anywhere else. An amazing guy who helped with all aspects of her treatment, he made sure that she was well treated and co-ordinated radiation and surgery. Incidentally from the time mom was diagnosed to surgery about three weeks.

    The decline in the Canadian dollar the increase in debt and the timeline of Canadian universal healthcare is misleading, Canadian healthcare had been developing since 1946 with Tommy Douglas in Saskatchewan. Each province had been developing programs from that point forward. It became federal in 1968 and there were certainly costs associated but that is not the root of the fall in the Canadian dollar.

    Tying Trudeau and the debt to healthcare in Canada is like tying the current US debt to Obama (which you probably do but it is ridiculous). Canada was clobbered by Trudeau in general, we had some serious sovereignty issues and Trudeau was a disaster economically. He was very hardcore left wing guy, not my favourite at all. Canada’s debt situation during Trudeau had many elements. The largest was the growth of the overall bureaucracy.

    Canada has been running surplus’ (until this year) for well over a decade. The debt has been substantially reduced and fiscally this country even in this economic disaster is sound. So I would suggest that our healthcare at about 10%of GDP compared to the US healthcare at about 15% of GDP is more efficient. We also have lower infant mortality rates and a longer life expectancy so the care is not only less expensive but more effective.

    The reference to The Examiner.com is brutal – it is not a newspaper of reporters it is contributions on-line basically a blog. The article “ A really weak source. This article is by some ultra conservative whatever so just pushing the agenda.

    • JDR

      Opps, its Paul Klimo, mnot Peter it has been a while and he was always Dr. Klimo.

      • Mona Benge

        That’s a coincidence. My father and my best friend also went to Dr. Klimo and he is wonderful. Your description of the care your family has received is equal to my experience. Your comments are terrific and true. Hope that sanity returns to the situation down there and the people in need are taken care of. My husband is a special forces vet from Ohio, served three terms in Vietnam and voted Republican all his life until last year when he voted for President Obama. What has become of the Republican Party is quite sad and getting worse it seems.

    • T Garland

      Thank you , that was needed to be said and what great proof to the actual quality of care in Canada, yes there are some bad cases but doubtful as many as here in US under there horrid healthcare
      just your average ordinary everyday “soccer mum” who actually experienced both Canada’s and US’s healthcare!!!

      • DaveH

        That was great proof? I guess I know where you stand on the junk science of Global Warming.

        • Smilee

          That crystal ball of yours has gotten foggy better clean it.

      • Smilee

        T Garland

        There is, a while back in an hospital here in the US four people died one night because the drugs manufactured over seas in a US owned and operated factory contained a poison and before they figured out that night what caused it four people where already dead. One was my cousin and it was in the papers.

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          There is, toys here that came from China that had poison in the paint and it killed some children. Mistakes happen. Whats your point?

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      Im glad your medical works for you up there. I dont know you, but I do know others up there who had just horrible results. Are you wealthy and connected, or a common Joe? Im beginning to wonder if those who are well to do get better treatment there than a poor person, or if it matters, because something is wrong when I keep hearing two totally different sides of this from up there, even on this post. I have to believe the ones that I have talked to personally, and saw the pain in their eyes as they told me about them. Then I read where your taken care of, so I dont know whats up, unless its just good in some cities, and in others they dont care or what, I dont know, but something isnt right, because all the stories are so inconsistent. All I know is here in the US, I have never wanted for any medical care, and I like what I have, and surely dont want the government tinkering around with it. Ive seen the wonderful job they have done with our school system, as it continually goes down the toilet. Yeah, now schools are doing away with the valedictorian and salutatorian, because it makes the other kids feel bad. You cant grade a paper with an “F”, because it makes the child feel bad. So you cant reward excellence, and you cant correct failure, then what the hell is school for? In the US, now its about tolerance and that we are all just mediocre in the middle, dependant on the government. No thanks, not me.

      • Normal Guy

        “All, too, will bear in mind this sacred principle, that though the will of the majority is in all cases to prevail, that will, to be rightful, must be reasonable; that the minority possess their equal rights, which equal laws must protect, and to violate would be oppression.”
        Thomas Jefferson
        Well my understanding is that over 50% of your system is already public with Medicare, medicade. The rest of the world has gone to universal healthcare because they see it as a social good. I personally think that the whole freedom position taken by those in your country is a fabrication of the vested interests. The guys that like the status quo as it serves them. I can’t see any rational for this position when you look around the world and see that universal systems everywhere else are working.

        Your discussions with Canadians regarding our system is really quite surprising to me. I am 51 years old, fairly well off and am a somewhat typical Canadian I think. The people I know – and I have had numerous discussions in the last while watching this debate in the US – are very proud of our system. I would go so far as to say that it is generally a defining element of Canadian culture. I do say that there are elements that I would like to see changed, things I would like added – like dental – but the system is outstanding. Oh and incidentally the only time that I have ever spoken to a bureaucrat was when I needed a new care card, I have never had any interaction regarding any treatment.

        Let me put it this way, if something is a public good like say, a road, and I take the position that I walk everywhere, grow my own food and don’t want to pay any taxes to build roads and infrastructure that this would make for a weak, ineffective country – it is not in the national interest to have each man as an independent island. Sometimes providing services can substantially impact the strength of a country. My position is that healthcare creates a stronger country. More stable economically, politically and most importantly more humane. I think that there is a level of compassion that should be extended.

        In regard to those who abuse a system, my feeling is that it is a small minority and vigilance keeps that to a minimum. There are many more young families struggling to get on their feet who need to take proper care of their children. In Canada that is never an issue.

        I have looked at some of the stats after posting this morning as I know the basics but not the exact numbers so here are some stats that say to me your system is not so great:
        Canada – Life Expectancy 81.23 Years 2009 estimate, Infant mortality rate 4.8/100,000 april 2009, percentage of GDP spent on healthcare 9.8% in 2005
        USA – Life Expectancy 78.11 Years 2009 estimate, Infant mortality rate 6.3/100,000 april 2009, percentage of GDP spent on healthcare 15.2% in 2005

        The US spends 50% more and has poorer results in all three categories. Anyhow, to me it makes no difference what the US does it is interesting to watch all the misinformation spewed out, like this article today. We will see what happens, for what it’s worth I think your country would be a better place with universal health care, good luck.

      • Normal Guy

        Well my understanding is that over 50% of your system is already public with Medicare, medicade. The rest of the world has gone to universal healthcare because they see it as a social good. I personally think that the whole freedom position taken by those in your country is a fabrication of the vested interests. The guys that like the status quo as it serves them. I can’t see any rational for this position when you look around the world and see that universal systems everywhere else are working.

        Your discussions with Canadians regarding our system is really quite surprising to me. I am 51 years old, fairly well off and am a somewhat typical Canadian I think. The people I know – and I have had numerous discussions in the last while watching this debate in the US – are very proud of our system. I would go so far as to say that it is generally a defining element of Canadian culture. I do say that there are elements that I would like to see changed, things I would like added – like dental – but the system is outstanding. Oh and incidentally the only time that I have ever spoken to a bureaucrat was when I needed a new care card, I have never had any interaction regarding any treatment.

        Let me put it this way, if something is a public good like say, a road, and I take the position that I walk everywhere, grow my own food and don’t want to pay any taxes to build roads and infrastructure that this would make for a weak, ineffective country – it is not in the national interest to have each man as an independent island. Sometimes providing services can substantially impact the strength of a country. My position is that healthcare creates a stronger country. More stable economically, politically and most importantly more humane. I think that there is a level of compassion that should be extended.

        In regard to those who abuse a system, my feeling is that it is a small minority and vigilance keeps that to a minimum. There are many more young families struggling to get on their feet who need to take proper care of their children. In Canada that is never an issue.

        I have looked at some of the stats after posting this morning as I know the basics but not the exact numbers so here are some stats that say to me your system is not so great:
        Canada – Life Expectancy 81.23 Years 2009 estimate, Infant mortality rate 4.8/100,000 april 2009, percentage of GDP spent on healthcare 9.8% in 2005
        USA – Life Expectancy 78.11 Years 2009 estimate, Infant mortality rate 6.3/100,000 april 2009, percentage of GDP spent on healthcare 15.2% in 2005

        The US spends 50% more and has poorer results in all three categories. Anyhow, to me it makes no difference what the US does it is interesting to watch all the misinformation spewed out, like this article today. We will see what happens, for what it’s worth I think your country would be a better place with universal health care, good luck.

        • Mona Benge

          Excellent comment. It’s so obviously political strategy to inflame those who don’t bother to educate themselves about their own systems. I’ve watched people screaming in town halls that the government should get its hands off their medicare. They don’t even know that they are on a government program. They have rationed care already but from the private sector. There isn’t a bureaucrat standing between them and their doctors….its someone at the corporation. If Doctors didn’t have to fill out so many forms and make calls to the insurance companies to determine if a patient will be covered for a certain procedure they might service so many more and be happier as doctors. When my husband had to have emergency back surgery, the doctor did not have to phone anyone for permission. Wish you would copy your post and place it elsewhere because it says it all.

          • eyeswideopen

            It is sad isn’t it? You guys know more about our system than the majority of the rt wingers in this country….sad sad. Thanks for taking time to try and educate.

        • eyeswideopen

          Just a “Normal Guy” who makes perfect sense. Thank you.

        • American Citizen

          Have you compared the populations of the two countries? We have a much bigger population, so of course the percentages will be bigger. Duh!

          • Jim

            Do you know what percentages are? DUH! is right. Unbelievable.

  • Aydin Bircan

    I agree with Mona. I couldn’t state the matter any better. I just wanted to add my own and a family member’s experience with Canadian, British and French health care systems which we ignorantly and arrogantly malign. It is true that there are pockets of “good health care” exists in this country, (such as Mayo Clinic and a few others) most of our country still living with the 19th century care and even technology.No wonder we are 37th in the world in terms of providing decent health care to its citizens. My dear cousin while studying in France fell ill and although she was not a French citizen, received the same care for a very small co-pay, as any others. She was astounded with the speed and the quality of the care in France where doctors are still making house calls and offering medicine for free, as a right to every citizen. When I was travelling in England, fell and broke my foot. As a student I was not rich and had only enough funds to cover the cost of my trip…Much maligned British health care system took care of me right away without even a co-pay. I had to chance to speak with several other patience in the doctor’s office. No body complained about the “no cost treatment” they often receive as they need and were amazed about the fact in our country people have to fill up emergency rooms to get care for simple problems like strept throat,common cold, or broken finger or get by without receiving any treatment due to lack of insurance or high co-pay even with the insurance, or their preferred doctor is not in the insurance plan they have, etc…I had a similar experience in Canada where I suffered a minor hearth attack. I was glad that it happened in BC, Kamloops as I did not have any health coverage and not enough money to deal with my problem. I received an urgent care, follow up care and all my drugs for free, and my life was saved. No wonder why so manny Americans trying to buy their drugs in Canada, sneaking thru the borders like criminals to get access to Canadian health care system we again ignorantly and arrogantly malign. A friend of mine is moving to Mexico to be able to treat his serious illness which would banckrupt him even with the so called “Premium Health Insurance” he has, provided by his large employer.
    Major problem in American health care is the fact that Insurance Companies can call the shots and capable of making HUGE profits on the back of desperate people. It is absurd, and yes even criminal, to defend the satus quo and trying to knocked down any effort to bring this country to the level of evolved nations, by lying, scaring people about the facts and figures. We all need to understand that it is the responsibility of the government we elect to keep people safe and secure. Government’s involvement to its citizens health care is absolutely required…Government has to be able to level the playing field and protect its citizens against the greed and abuse of market forces, especially where life and death issues involved.

    • Dr. smith

      Ok, twice I read 37th in the world. The rank of 37th is infant mortality! I’m sure there are reasons for this, like the state of health of the average American, diet, exercise, life style etc.

      The rank of 37th has little to do with the service rendered.

      That said, there are as many ways to rank a system as there are political justifications for increasing taxes.

      We all can agree that the system isn’t perfect and never will be. 85% of Americans are happy with their health care and don’t want change, so you have to ask why our government is pushing this and not hearing their constituency?

      Why not further study and do an incremental change? or try different plans/systems on a state level? Have one plan modeled after the Canadian system?

      Why do we have to have an all or nothing 1100 page reform?

      • Aydin Bircan

        You are right about being classified #37 in the world only in terms of infant mortality, which you think we should attribute to diet, exersize etc and ignore it…A uniqely American health care system has to be all encompassing and be able to deal with such issues as well, by proper education, tangible insentives, wellness care rather than the emphasis being placed on sick care…Major problem is the insurance industry which I liken it to paying a “protection money”to a mob but no protection. 85% of the people can not be happy with their health insurance or they don’t know any better or they did not have to use the system seriously…They may have an insurance until they become really desperate to use it. I know it happened to me. I was one of those 85%, happy with so called premium insurance provided by my employer. I had the best, until my ex wife was diognosed with breast cancer in one of her check ups, due to a suspicion that there might be a small lump discovered by her self examination ( which I had to pay out of pocket even with that premium insurance)..This opened a pandora’s box because my wife failed to mention a not so serious childhood illness in her application…There are no cancer history in the family and overall my wife has been in a good health. There were no lapse in premium pay which was partially deducted from my paycheck and we never before reqitred any kind of payment from the insurance company, had no claims..None mattered..Insurance company denied care and I had to pay much of it out of pocket which amounted to a more money than I could afford. I consequently had to file banckrupcy which ruined my life for many years.
        There was no doubt that the insurance company was lookin for any excuse to not to pay for the treatment.
        My story is not unique…I know other people have dealt and dealing with similar problems in increasing numbers in this richest country in the world. It is shameful and even criminal for the insurance companies reaping so much profits from the needy, desperate and yes, ignorant people. Government we elect has absolutely the role and the duty to deal with this problem by leveling the playing field and curtailing so called free market forces sucking the life out of its citizens…We need to take the huge profit motive out of the health care system, which without there could be no real reform of it, increamental or not. The system have to be reformed as a whole, medicare included. Obama’s approach is increamental, and will not produce the results we are seeking unless there is a strong public option, wellnes care, easy acces to a primary physician and incentives and education for the individuals to take care of themselves better, etc…Let’s don’t water it down; current system is TOTALLY broken even for those 85% of the people (they may not see it yet)Change is difficult; people get used to even their own misery and act against their best interest with the false belief that the “government bad”, “free market good”…Unfortunately most people don’t have the tools to be able to know the nuances of public private partnership to serve them better. A strong public option being discussed, have the chance to put us on our way to a better albeit not a perfect system. Obama was elected with a large majority, to reform the health care which has been on the table and discussed to death, for over 60 years, and which it is on its way to bankcupting the country with nothing to show for…We certainly have a lot to learn from the countries who were able to achieve a unique system for their own economy, culture so on. There is no reason as why we can not find a uniquely American solution to this enduring dilemma, finally, this year. Let’s help Obama and congress to achieve this. It can be and must be done.

        • eyeswideopen

          OMG!!! well said.

        • Mona Benge

          No one should lose everything because they are unfortunate enough to either have no insurance or as in your case to have insurance that will not cover the illness. Did you see the interview on Bill Moyer with A fellow called Wendell Hopper? He was a VP of communications at Cigna for 15 years I think it was. He has testified at Senate and Congressional committee hearings on the health care industry…insurance companies. It was very interesting because he said people were just numbers to him until he was home visiting relatives in Tennessee one day. He heard that there was a free clinic in town treating people at the fair ground. So he went there to see. Hundreds stood in the rain to be treated in tents by Doctors working for free. A similar clinic was just held in Los Angeles a couple of weeks ago. Thousands were treated. Since shocked him because he discovered that many were working poor. Simply could not afford to go to the doctor or the dentist. He said he couldn’t get over it and so he quit and became a whistle blower. He worked on a strategic team in the industry to kill health care reform during the Clinton years and so he explained just how the health care industry is fighting this time. It is quite disgusting. Look him up.

          • eyeswideopen

            Girl you rock!!

        • K Harrison

          Health care is not what needs fixed. It is way broken, true enough, but asking the government to fix it will not work. To truly fix American healthcare [IF the govenment would choose to do, it has already been told not to, pending the elimination of the american population by the year 2027 (Yes, the people running the American government believe the world population should be only 1/2 billion people by then!)] would be to get rid of every water treatment plants addition of chlorine and flouride to the water (chlorine in your water causes heart disease, flouride makes for many diseases – obesity being its major contribution. Those two items alone account for over half the expenditure on healthcare!), and start using thing like a Rife machine to deal with whatever those improvements won’t.
          BTW – Raymond Royal Rife’s machine (invented in 1934) is currently being used to CURE AIDS in Asia, it also does a real good job of curing breast cancer, the American Medical Association destroyed his factory, office, and research to make sure you wouldn’t have access to any cures of any kind. Google his name, you will find that there is no one who should have died from breast or any other cancer or disease since then.

          • JDR

            You know it boggles my mind how anyone could buy into such ridiculous conspiracy theories. The rational is just plain silly, the AMA killed it? Really so why did he not take it to Canada or Australia, or Mexico? I’ll tell you why because it did not work! The only reason that you hear about it today is so that fraudsters that pray on the sick and dying – the people who are willing to pay almost anything for a cure, are selling them, it’s snake oil. These people are the lowest form of slime and that you would reiterate their claims is unfortunate.

            If the device worked tens of thousands of very wealthy people with disease would pay anything to use it. Don’t you think? I mean the chicken entrails thing in the Caribbean had thousands flying down for expensive treatment. Your rational is just ludicrous, if it worked all he needed to do was sell the product to the wealthy with disease, or are there black helicopters flying around trying to stop him with fluoride and chlorine?

            Who says the world’s population needs to be ½ billion by 2027? Let me answer that – no one. It’s no wonder that people can buy into the conspiracy that Limbaugh and the crew kick out I mean you seem to be willing to buy anything.

          • DixieConnie

            And I ask: Who is going to pay for all of this. Taxes? Don’t you think we are taxed enough?

          • DaveH

            Dixie,
            Don’t count on the Liberals ever throwing in the towel, even when our once-great country collapses. When their hopes and dreams are involved it is so much easier to be led around by the nose then to think hard. They believe what they want to believe. They are the kind of people who would be afraid to read the writings of Ludwig Von Mises, because they might be waken into reality.

        • Dr. smith

          “You are right about being classified #37 in the world only in terms of infant mortality, which you think we should attribute to diet, exersize etc and ignore it…”

          OK, I understand your pain. What I don’t understand is the always liberal knee-jerk emotional reaction.

          I NEVER said we should IGNORE IT. Please don’t put words into others’ mouths. And… please if you can…Explain why we are 37th? SHould we blame insurance companies? right wing radicals? WHo are we to blame?

          What about ourselves? Yes, responsibility for one’s own health? Why must we always look to Big Brother? That’s what they want, more control over your life.

          I AGREE, insurance companies only care about making more and more money! What about less Regulation and introduce more competition? To my understanding, insurance companies aren’t allowed
          interstate competition and are heavily regulated as it is.

          And the liberal tactic of belittling and labeling anyone who dares disagree: ” less intelligent conservative mind sets of the population”. So…we can assume that if your a conservative, you are less intelligent by all liberal standards?

          Can’t we discuss the topic, Health Care Reform or will it always be us vs. them, the evil brainwashed extremist. I had the same experience at a town hall meeting where I dared voice my contrary opinion to an Obamaite and was immediately attacked and labeled.

          What ever happened to the Liberals creed: “I may not agree with what your saying but would fight for your right to say it”?

          • DixieConnie

            The liberals have forgotten their own words except when they need to use them. I don’t agree with THIS Health Care REFORM and never will.

          • Smilee

            Bet your not a real doctor either, but just in case I will never see a doctor by the name of smith

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            Most of the so called health care/insurance problems now are from government intervention with all their rules and regulations and insurance codes and hospital codes. The billions the government spends on medicare and medicaid is nothing but a scam. Sure, I agree it helps some people, but my gosh, when they can bill the government 3 times the amount neccessary because government regulations say so, we got a problem Houston. Such is the case when the government gets involved in anything. If they backed off, and let free competition go and stop restraining it, we wouldnt have any problems with it today. Its because government has gotten in the way and screwed it up allready.

    • bidget34

      Aydin, you are perfectly correct in stating that the Insurance Companies are at fault concerning health care! How can an insurance company determine whether or not you really need a procedure? That is why we have Doctors and confidence that they know what they are doing. If the government, President wants to make changes in the health care system why don’t they go after the insurance companies? The insurance companies want to cover just so much of a procedure leaving a balance for the individual to pay. Therefore, making it necessary for us to purchase additional insurance to supplement Medicare.With the insurance companies being allowed to determine how much they will or will not cover it leaves the Doctors no other alternative than to increase their charges. Then the circle starts all over again. GO AFTER THE INSURANCE COMPANIES! All of them have to offer the same plans but they don’t have to charge the same premium. There is quite a difference in premiums that are charged for the same coverage! Why is that allowed?

      • Aydin Bircan

        I agree with you that insurance companies are the major culprits. However I don’t think it is possible to dictate on them as to what kind of coverage they can provide at what cost without establishing draconian (for us Americans)rules in regards to what the basic coverage and the cost should be. That would be a too much interference to so called free, private market and that would bring us closer to socialized medecine some people are yelling about…Personally having experienced the systems in France, Switzerland and England, such system is very efficient, cost effective and high quality but unfortunately it is not even being discussed in the congress. So the next best thing is to leaving most of the basic structure in place with various changes such as preventing insurance companies cherry picking and dropping coverage at will, so on I am sure you know; and establishing a public option with lower cost and the same quality care accessible by millions of people who don’t have care and millions who are not satisfied with it…More competition to encourage the private insurance companies to serve people better.
        This is actually a simple solution to our broken system, but demaguoged to death by people either do not understand it or conditioned to react unfavorably against any government involvenment in our health care (and everything else in that matter. This is nothing but ignorance)…At the end, unless the insurance companies do a better job at their free will and economic, and rather than the people needing insurance companies, companies need and chase after the people, this system will fail also and the next step is the government run health care where doctors, hospitals, health care givers are all government employees are employed by the government…Britan has that system and I don’t see any brit dying on the streets…Actually other than some teeth problems (too much sweets)British are some of the healthiest people in the world with longer life expectancy than many other nations, including USA…I reccommend watching SICKO, (although I don’t always agree with Michael Moore)…

        • Mona Benge

          Thank you for a reasoned comment.

      • Jim

        They are going after the insurance companies. It’s called public option. The right doesn’t want it, “becasue….well….because it….oh, ask the insurance companies, they’re the ones who tell me what to think”

        • eyeswideopen

          lol, thanks for the laugh.

    • Mona Benge

      I couldn’t agree with you more. I’m glad you had a good experience in Kamloops. I live in West Vancouver and have certainly had nothing to complain about. It’s so sad that people can be so easily manipulated on this topic. I find it quite amazing.

  • Katherine Tomsich

    That vaccination you covet will have nothing to do with saving your life. This is one of the problems with the medical care system in the USA. They spread a lot of fear and misinformation due to their strict adherence to dogma over science. That said- I’d still rather have surgery here than anywhere else, it I truly need surgery. We have the best medical technicians.

    • American Citizen

      Several years ago I had an elderly friend who had gone on a tour in Germany. She fell down the steps in one of the castles and broke her leg. The doctors treated her by putting rods in her leg. A few years later, they gave her so much pain, the doctors here had to take them out and treat her differently. Her leg was never really right until she died because of the care she got in Germany. We do have the best doctors here.

  • Ozark_Sunshine

    What Obama and the Democratic Party has offered is something to run the insurance companies out of business. As a disabled Veteran, I have been in the government run system for over 25 years. Last year, I had to wait 6 months to see a doctor and medical review board for injuries sustained in the military and which they had treated me for once before, only to be put off for another 9 months for the board to now deny care for my injuries. The 46 healthcare insurance providers came forward 9 months ago to the Democratic Party and Obama and told them that if they made coverage mandatory, then they would take all people with no opt outs for pre-existing conditons. Everyone would be covered. Obama and the Dems not only told them “No!”, but also told them that they needed to keep their mouths shut about the offer or Congress and the IRS would be investigating them and they would put them out of business. This was told on the air in Kansas City by a healthcare professional who was one of the lobbyists that made the offer. This is all about power and creating a socialist society. Another removal of our freedoms, for which I fought. For you Canadians, last week your Canadian Medical Association came out and said that the system in Canada is imploding and needs to be fixed because these doctors see and hear the worst of it. If you haven’t seen it, consider yourself fortunate, but my question is, why are all the hospitals on our northern border flooded with people from Canada for treatment? People in this country are free to choose what they want to do. It’s sad they choose to have gold teeth, fancy cars, iPods, CD and DVD players and collections to be envied and they eat out numerous times per week and by name brand, expensive clothing, but choose not to have insurance. I know because that’s only in my family not to mention the reast of the nation. They choose not to have it! so why should my tax money go to pay a strangers healthcare bill when then choose not to have it? The government has to stay out of it. They’ve bankrupted Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, screwed up Clunkers for Cash, run the worst VA hospitals around and you expect them to be able to do this? All they want to do is put the insurance companies out of business. Look at how bankrupt the Massachusetts medical system is now with hospitals going bankrupt and doctors leaving the state, all because the state thought they could run it. Either take the insurance companies up on their offer, or do what Israel does. They government collects the payments from EVERYONE through taxes and the then the individual picks an insurance company and plan that fits their needs and the government pays them. It leaves the private sector in business for competition and keeps the government from taking over the industry. Watch Obama and the Dems. You know they are lying when their lips move.

    • Aydin Bircan

      Under the current coditions, insurance companies should be run out of business…Public option, if it is cost effective, efficient and high quality as being envisioned will eventually make private insurance companies the same. Competition should be on not what but how the delivery system works for all Americans.
      This issue has been on the table for decades without any real reform acted upon, and the coditions are getting bad to worse. Special interest and insurance companies have been doing a good job fooling people and reaping incredible amount of profit from people’s suffering…People finally waking up to the reality and elected Obama to fix the problem. I have no doubt it will be done this year.

      • DixieConnie

        I did not vote for Obama and I want him to stop trying to FIX things. He is not smart and he doesn’t know what he is doing.

    • eyeswideopen

      You lost me when you stated that a “lobbyist made the statement” Please don’t tell me you believe lobbyists who are paid to influence the congressman?

      • DaveH

        Eyeswideshut,
        Why not? You believe the Congressman who are paid to convince you to reelect them. You believe the Liberals who want to be paid with other peoples’ monies.

        • eyeswideopen

          Yep, Dave, you are right, i used to do that, but that was in the past. Now I know better, as I opened my mind/eyes and starting researching and participating. Instead of just hating everything that is wrong, I now work actively to change the system and not just slam it.

  • ALPHIE

    John Myers must live in another country and not in Canada. I live in Ontario. maybe it’s different in Alberta. I experienced severe symptoms of preunomia in November 2007 along with shortness of breath. My partner phoned 911 and five minutes later a fire engine arrived and the firefighters checked my vitals and and did first aid. Minutes later an ambulance arrived and the medics put on an air mask and took me to our hospital ER no less than 1/2 hour after the 911 call. I was hooked up to oxygen and a monitor. The only downside was that had spent the night on a gurney. A bed was available the next day. I spent 8 days in the hospital. I had fluid on my lungs and they removed 300 ml of fluid from my lungs. I’ve been well ever since. I hate to think what it would have cost in the US if we had rushed to Buffalo 1-1/2 away. Probably $100,000. How many uninsured Americans could afford that ? Russian doctor ? Any foreign doctors must complete tough exams and internship before getting a licence – most end up driving taxis instead.

  • Ozark_Sunshine

    By the way, SNOPES.COM is not a valid place to check facts. They refuse to check out facts that expose liberals, like the Susan G. Komen Foundation giving $750,000 to the Planned Parenthood clinic in Dallas because Susan’s sister sits on it’s board. It is a liberal couple in Los Angeles, the leftist nation, and they have no credibility since they refuse to check out everything.

  • http://personalliberty tradcon

    What happens when you place 47 million into a system with a finite number of doctors, nurses, hospitals, and clinics? I’m envisioning VERY long lines and VERY long wait times.

    Also, it puzzles me when the dems say will be able to save on costs. Cash for Clunkers comes to mind. Free money. One billion dollars in tax payer money burned through in about four days (a success only the eyes of government), and then another 2B added on. When you make medical care free or near free for all, those that normally wouldn’t go to the doctor for a sniffle will be right there in line! Let the abuse begin.

    • DixieConnie

      Why can’t those understand, NOTHING IS FREE. We all pay for this FREE health care. The Cash for Clunkers WE ALL PAY for it. Where does the money from the Gov come from? Stop the insanity. We need to fix what we have instead of blowing it up and starting over.

  • Cathy L.

    Karen Miller is correct about the czars. The 32 czars Obama has appointed are progressive, EXTREME left-wing liberals, and some of Obama’s advisors are even self-proclaimed communists with radical political beliefs, Van Jones to name just one. Others are members of the movement for a democratic society whose agendas are too socialize and bring the populace under total govt control. Check it out! Don’t just take my word for it. Our president, who spoke of change, is changing the face of our beloved America through an unprecedented power grab.

    A study done by the Lewin Group determind that 83.4 million peple will be forced off their current health plans and on to the government option if Obamacare passes. It will give the govt control over your lifestyle habits. I read an article that said in the U.K., which has socialized medicine, “counselors” visit your house and check on the contents of your refrigerator to examine whether you are making healthy
    eating choices.Smokers in England have been refused treatment for heatlh disease. Obese people are refused hip and knee replacements. You get the idea.

    The Congressional Budget office stated recently that the 10-year $1.5 trillion dollar estimate doesn’t include “administrative costs,” which may be the largest cost of the bill. To help control costs, people will receive a pain pill instead of surgery. Discrimination against the elderly and terminally ill will run rampant. And end of life counseling will help us commit suicide.

    Our country cannot sustain this kind of debt on top of the $9 trillion dollar debt we already have!!

    People….continue to express your outrage over this bill by calling your senators and representatives and let them know we won’t let a few in congress (500)who tell us we don’t know any better, that they will not take control over our lives!

    If this bill passes, what do you think will ultimately happen?

    Our country will go bankrupt and Obama will say the U.S. dollar has lost all value and now we have to become part of a global currency, that’s what!

    • eyeswideopen

      Cathy,
      Do you knot know who owns the Lewin group….Well it’s UNITED HEALTHCARE GROUP.. I am so positive that they aren’t biased towards the medical industry… Wake up, the Republian talking points are ridiculous.

      • eyeswideopen

        oop pls forgive typo.

    • Mona Benge

      Cathy where do you pick up this ridiculous information. If you really do believe this stuff then I feel sorry for you.

    • Smilee

      The last three 10 year estimates the CBO office made on projected medical costs and now those ten year periods have come and gone so they can now be compared to what really happened and guess what in all three cases they estimated way high and many think that is the case here as well.

    • DixieConnie

      Are we all sure that the hiring of these Czar’s is legal?

  • Matt V

    Why does every think and compare to Canada when Germany has been rated the best health care system in the world. Canada and the U.K. came in 4th and 5th and Germany has universal health. But as long as we have greed we will not have good health reform. Greed will make the dollar collasp

    • bidget34

      Mat V, there is no one any more greedy than each and every politician! If an individual is decent and respectable when they enter politics they very soon learn the law of politics is to be greedy and dishonest. I believe nothing any of them say. Lying and cheating seems to be the norm. How many trillions of $ have disappeared and never been accounted accounted for? Greed and deceit is plentiful all through the government!

      • Smilee

        There is far more greed in Corporate America but then they control a lot of these politicians, get corporate lobbying under control and this will improve drastically. Why is it everyone pounces on the politicians when they represent us and we can vote them out if we like, what can we do about the Corporate big wigs whom make all the corporate decisions. Nothing, you have no vote there but a hell of a lot more greed.

    • Smilee

      The three rankings of medical care I have seen have France as number one and the US as number 37, with Germany, England, Canada and the Scandinavian Countries all ranked higher than the US and all at far lower costs.

  • Vincent Fernandez

    Either you are human and beleive in treating people regardless of their ability to pay or you don’t, and believe that one person’s life is worth more than another. It is quite simple. Yes there is triage of health care dollars, but like any system that needs to happen. The basic facts are that life expectancy is HIGHER in Canada with lower morbidity because of socialized medicine. Moreover, we spend 11% of GDP on health care and the US spend 17%. There is baltant inefficiencies in the US system because of the “for profit nature of the insurance and the litigeous nature of the US. Quite simply, the cost of malpractice insurance in the US is up to 40X higher in the US, running at close to $200,000 for oncologists. We live longer and we are less ill. Enough said. This is not a step towards communism. Movement towards socialize medicine involves the imposition of a monopoly payor for the system, which will drive savings that a for profit system cannot and choses not to do. When a free market system does not function in the provision of suitable pricing, it is the role of government to step in, for the people. The calculation of the increase government spending assumes that the current private pay premium remain in force. Some basic accounting shows that this is not the case. Please do not hoodwinked by the old religious right rhetoric. These people are lying to you. But that is another comment all together.

    • Cathy L.

      There is a for-profit nature to our healthcare system because, as there is in all U.S. business and industry, albeit capitalism, making money is a powerful incentive for individuals and companies. That’s why they’re in business! Calling it greed is not addressing the issue.
      There will always be greed, just as there will always be the poor.
      Abraham Lincoln said, “YOu cannot help the poor by destroying the rich.
      You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong. You cannot lift the wage earner up by pulling the wage payer down.”

      We need Tort reform first and foremost. Secondly we need the opening up of state borders to allow insurance companies the ability to offer insurance across state lines. Competition will drive prices down then.

      When 82% of the population is satisfied with their insurance, only areas that need reform should be addressed. Medicare is practically bankrupt, why isn’t the government reforming medicare? You don’t throw out an entire system if only a portion of it needs change!

      This so-called healthcare crisis has been manufactured in order for Obama and his socialist cronies to exert more control over us.
      This bill will strip us all of our very freedoms, shrink us into submission, and make us party to the evil decisions for euthanasia and abortion. It must be opposed!

      • eyeswideopen

        Cathy,
        does the RNC send you the talking points it gives to the Senators?
        So, far the Repubs have stated that 61%, then 72 % and now you are stating that 82% are happy. I want to make sure that you are happy with the 119% increase in your premiums during the last 8 years. In another 8 years, the average premium will cost $24,000.00, let me repeat 24,000.00. That might be ok, but our salaries don’t increase at the same rate. Unless you are rich, you won’t have insurance by that time either, and then the story will change.

      • Smilee

        Cathy L

        No Cathy, about that percentage are satisfied with their health care not their insurance company, that is where we hear all the bitching about from the people. Medicare is almost broke because they robbed it for other things, it is still the best plan for the patient out there today if you also buy a medigap plan and there is high satisfaction with this plan by seniors and now being a senior I have much better coverage at less cost than I had the previous 25 years. You sure must think Obama has terrific power to be able to manufacture this crisis in just 8 months, fact is Kathy that it was here since he was a kid. You sure have fallen hook line and sinker for the conservative lie agenda, Remember the only thing to fear is fear itself and that is what you are about, fearing just fear without fear.

        When 82% of the population is satisfied with their insurance, only areas that need reform should be addressed. Medicare is practically bankrupt, why isn’t the government reforming medicare? You don’t throw out an entire system if only a portion of it needs change!

        This so-called healthcare crisis has been manufactured in order for Obama and his socialist cronies to exert more control over us.
        This bill will strip us all of our very freedoms, shrink us into submission, and make us party to the evil decisions for euthanasia and abortion. It must be opposed! Cathy L

        • DaveH

          Smilee,
          With all due respect, have you been drinking? This last comment of yours seems out of character for you. I thought you were a rabid Obama supporter? Or maybe someone else is using your ID?

          • Smilee

            The last three paragraphs are Cathy’s that I cut and pasted when I was writing my post and I forgot to delete it before I submitted it, sorry about that, should clear up your confusion

        • DixieConnie

          Smilee: I don’t think it is just fear that is running a muck, especially when those that represent us have not even read this Bill they are going to vote for. What is wrong with this picture?

          • Smilee

            You can bet your bottom dollar their staff has read it and they know what is in it even though they have not read each word, besides it is a work in progress and it will not be the bill they vote on so why is it so important to read it now, that is just conservative BS wanting you to believe that this is somehow incompetent when it is not. Oh you say the bill, did you know in the house there are five bills and none in the senate as yet. You do not seem to understand how the process works.

      • DixieConnie

        Amen to Lincoln. I totatlly agree with his statment. Others need to read and reread that.

    • Mona Benge

      thank you Vincent. You are absolutely right. It’s very sad how it seems impossible to have a reasonable discussion of the issues with people that just are stuck on labels and totally uninformed as to the facts.

    • Cathy L.

      Rod OH:
      Yes, It IS about personal freedom! What right does the gov’t have to tell us what type of health coverage they will give us? What right do they have to mandate health coverage, or at the very least, the same exact health coverage for everyone? (Except for the Congress who don’t want it). It is not a right for everyone! It is a privilege! Have you read the constitution? There is nothing in it about a “right” to healthcare.
      “Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.” Those are our rights.
      Nothing about healthcare.

      You say there are 40 million without healthcare. Approx. 36 million are illegal aliens. (I’ve heard many different numbers for that category, but bear with me here). Do those who have sneaked into our country, have a right to our healthcare? That will only continue to open the flood gate of illegal aliens who know they can get US benefits and not be US citizens.

      Should those of us who have worked hard to afford health insurance, pay for those who have never worked but have chosen to live off of those who do, have a right to healthcare?

      There is also a large percentage of people who make over $75,000/year, who choose not to buy healthcare, and use their money for other things….should we pay for them too? That’s their choice not to buy insurance, and that’s their freedom. But don’t make me pay for theirs when instead, they’re buying plasma tv’s, iphones, blackberries, home theatres, boats, vacations. Some of us go without those things so we can afford, and choose to, buy health insurance to protect our family.

      • Smilee

        Cathy L. says:
        August 27, 2009 at 7:57 am

        You are confused, “Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.” is a part of the DOI but health care is about “Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.” and the constitution does not prohibit us from doing this nor does it specifically mention it but does not deny it. Medicare has never been struck down as unconstitutional and has proven it works and now works for the recipient better than any other plan in the US and enjoys the best satisfaction by them than any other does plan in the US. It is well known that collectively we can accomplish it better and more cheaper than individually and all countries of the world except two have now come to that conclusion and their health care has proven outcomes have proven this. You are about three times higher on the number of illegals than anyone one else and seem to be very selfish and have a deep resentment to helping others and of course they would help you as well. Its time we started caring more about our fellow man on at least the things we may not always be able to do best for our self. and have less focus on beings so selfish.

    • BABUSHSKA

      JDR:
      Don’t believe Obama wants to create a civilian military?
      Pitiful, ignorant lies, you say?

      Here it from the horse’s mouth — now eat your words!

      Check out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt2yGzHfy7s

      And stop slamming other people before you check the facts!

      • eyeswideopen

        Yes, the Peace Corps is considered a civilian army.

  • Todd Bright

    It isnt that we have the 37th rated health care system in the world. We have the greatest critical of anywhere in the world. It is our preventative care that we dont do that causes us to have to spend so much money on disease later in life. It is the fact that we eat processed foods and drink sugar water (soft drinks), have school lunches laiden with fat,and have a seditary life style. The United States has the best cardiac specialist, orthopedic surgeons,lung specialist, and neurosurgeons in the world. What we dont have is great preventitive care. So that skews the numbers which say that our health care sytem is rated 37th when it is the health of the people of the united states rate 37th as compared to the health of people across the world. So dont listen to that garbage is it retoric and a play on numbers.

    • Smilee

      That’s a part of it but only a part, the overall is 37th and includes some of this but looks at the whole picture and other factors are also an issue in this outcome so your statement in my opinion is only partly true.

    • American Citizen

      I heard the Senator from Virginia a couple of days ago at his Town Hall meeting say the plan is a wellness plan. in other words, it’s for the healthy. Get sick and you can forget it.

      • eyeswideopen

        Does the word PREVENTATIVE mean anything to you? Wellness plans have coverage for mammo’s diabetic testing, cancer testing,they attempt to keep you well reducing expensive healthcare down the road.

  • Lena

    I would say the best recommendation for Americans would be for them to get healthy the natural way. Exercise, eat well and heal yourself as best you can with herbal medicines rather than relying on prescription medication. Of course there is always the exception. At least if you tried and did your best in the end, you wouldn’t need to rely on health care as much. People taking prescriptions for things like headaches and knee pain need to reconsider. Heal yourself with alternative medicine (exercise [yes exercise!], chiropractor, massage, physio) and stop relying on a prescription pad to solve all your problems. You will be better off in the end.

    • Smilee

      I agree with you 100% but that is not the issue with health care reform but definitely should be a goal

  • Cathy L.

    We all should take better care of ourselves to minimize our need for health care, that’s for sure. But let’s face it, in general, comprehensive healthcare is especially necessary for senior citizens’ and those of any age with a chronic health condition. Under Obamacare, the value of senior’s lives and chronic care patients will be evaluated with a formula similar to one used in Great Britain, that determines what the healthcare costs of an individual’s remaining years will be, and whether it will be worth it to the system to treat them. In Great Britain, one year of life is determined to be worth $45,000. If your medical needs are greater, you’re SOL. People in the UK are routinely denied life-prolonging drugs that are deemed not “cost effective,” drugs that are widely prescribed in our country to treat cancer, Alzheimers and other conditions.

    Dr. Ezekial Emanuel, a key Obama advisor, and brother to chief of staff Rahm Emanuel, uses what he calls a “Complete Lives System, formula where individuals between 15 and 40 years get the most
    substantial chance at healthcare, and the youngest and oldest people are considered less worthy of healthcare. This is an abomination!….no pun intended. What arrogance, what superiority!
    What pure evil! Is this the candidate who wanted equality for all?

    Ask yourself this: Is this how you want your mother, father, grandparents and other elderly relatives treated? Denied healthcare because they are not valued as being worthy to receive it based on their remaining years? Remember, you will be in their shoes in the future.

    • Smilee

      CathyL

      Again you are quoting the conservative lie agenda, why do you not research yourself rather than repeat these lies. Medicare changes are not going to effect the seniors current coverages or hurt them in any way, that is not to say more efficiency is not possible and that is all that has been talked about what you are talking about has been manufactured by conservatives.

  • Tony

    Ok, I guess I have to be the “politically incorrect” person here, since nobody wants to come right out and say this: Before you can even begin to address ANY form of government health care, you have to address the millions of illegals in this country. GET THEM OUT. Have a “Illegal Rights Day” rally, let them all come, and then round’m up and ship’m home! Anchor babies too. Lock, stock and barrel….get rid of them. We cannot let the politicians keep pandering to these illegals- you and I will pay out the yin-yang for it! I am part of the 1st generation born in the USA on my father’s side- my Grandpa immigrated THE RIGHT WAY. He waited in lines @ Ellis Island, did all the paperwork, and FORCED his sons to learn English (he forbade Greek to be spoken anymore, simply telling them “We are Americans now!”). If you snuck across the border and had 10 kids, too bad…you, your 10 anchor babies and all 25 other people living in your 1 bedroom apartment NEED TO GO. Then, and only then, can we progress to addressing the health care issue…and you will find that without this huge, freeloading, burden on our society that we may be able to have a decent system. Until that happens, forget about it!

    • DixieConnie

      AMEN

  • y t

    Mr. Myers,
    Proping up stinkingly rich bankers (who are nothing but liars) with taxpayer money, isn’t that socialism and not a capitalism? Should not those liar bankers be allowed to go bankrupt under “capitalism”?

    Where is the outrage from die hard republicans about these bankers misdeeds?

    Why are you even talking about socialized medicine? What is wrong with it? If it is socialized so what?

  • ooldfella

    A few questions (and I haven’t heard any apologists for Obamacare answer them):

    1. If we (that is, the U.S.) only rank 37th (out of how many?) according to the WHO, then why are people from all over banging down the doors to get medical service delivery here in the U.S.? (BTW,we ought to be talking “medical service delivery” or a similar term, not “healthcare.” Lena’s onto something–no government can issue you good health, like the Marines issued me a pair of boots decades ago. You’re responsible for your own “health.”

    2. If Obamacare is so good, why don’t the politicians put themselves and all government workers on it? Not one Democrat has had the guts to answer that question at any town hall meeting; Barney Frank, the Lord Cornbury of the English language, resorted to the time-tested Democrat tactic at his town hall meeting when a Lyndon LaRouchie Democrat woman tried to ask him that question. He engaged in personal insult, scorn and vituperation.

    3. Someone suggested that buying medical service delivery insurance (OK, OK, most folks say “healthcare insurance,” but like I said, the government can’t issue you good health like a rifle and a pair of boots)is like buying automobile insurance. If that’s the case how come I can’t buy medical service delivery insurance across state lines, the way I buy auto insurance?

    • Mona Benge

      Actually is 37 out of all the countries in the world. Yes. People do go to the states for critical care treatment because it is the best in the world. What is being discussed here is affordable health care for everyone and providing some competition for the insurance companies that contrary to what you believe do ration care.

      You already have what you probably would call socialized care because that is what medicaid, medicare, veterans health care and the politicians are also on a government plan. Most industrialized countries have universal health care which means all people are covered. Some of those countries have private hospitals but the government pays. The public option as I understand it will simply be a way to cover the uninsured which by the way is based on census numbers at around 49 million. This does not count illegals and illegals will not be eligible to sign on to public health care.
      Check out factcheck.org or snopes.com or CNN.com/healthcare to get your facts. They are equally hard on both sides but I have tell you most of the really blatant lies come from the opponents of health care reform. Even though they know that something has to happen or health care will not be affordable for anyone given the rates at which premiums are trending up. There are many reasonable savings that must take place and with more people in the system then the costs per unit should go down. It is cruel I think that misinformation is spread to create fear, anger and confusion. It is a political strategy that unfortunately works because it inflames the people that either believe whatever certain people in power tell them or are just plain gullible. Check out the facts and then make up your mind.

      • eyeswideopen

        I am applauding out loud. Well said. Please keep coming back to this site and offering your insight.

      • Smilee

        What is so amazing to me here is that the Canadians posting on this site are so much more knowledgeable as to what is going on in the US today than the conservatives living in the US are. Knowledgeable and thinking people can see though the conservative BS and my experience with conservatives and a lot of them on this site is they will not if they are able think it though or show much interest in getting at the truth.

        • DixieConnie

          Because one has a different opinion from you does not mean they do not have all of the facts. Maybe you are the one with the false facts.

          • Smilee

            Maybe I’m the one with the right facts, being you do not seem to know, don’t discount that I may have it right

  • Doreen McCoy

    way to go BIDGET 34 & TRACY you said like it is for that is what is going to happen to all of us. Don’t you also know who will be first in line for this free care if you did not guess it already THE GOOD OLD ILLEGALS. Yes that is right for they get everthing they want already why not free health care to boot. This just makes me so angry for I want no part of it and NO I do not have insurance and still do not want it so put that in your pipe and smoke it the rest of you nut cases. I also agree with Mr. Myers. I have never asked for any help with any of the systems for I would not get any help anyway for all of the ILLEGALS and the rest of you dead beets are sucking it all up. I ALSO DO NOT WANT ANYONE TELLING ME I AM TO OLD TO SAVE ANYMORE HOW DARE THEM!

    • Mona Benge

      I respect your right to refuse health insurance but what will you do should you be in an accident and arrive at a hospital. Will you tell people to leave you die outside? You will I understand be treated unless you are conscious and refuse care but it is the other taxpayers that will be paying for it.

  • DaveH

    According to most figures I’ve seen the United States is slightly ahead of Canada in GDP per capita. Who knows if those figures are accurate or not or if the many comments on this board are valid or not. All I know, is that our government keeps getting bigger and our purchasing power keeps declining. And even if that wasn’t true, I don’t care; I just know that I was much happier 30 years ago when I wasn’t constantly looking over my shoulder and wondering what government agency I was going to run afoul of next. If you love other people telling you how to live your life then Socialism is for you. I don’t.

    • Mona Benge

      Dave, I used to have exactly that point of view. If government did it then it was bad and let’s just allow the private sector to police itself. They know what they are doing. So then came de-regulation of just about everything and what did we all get. A financial sector in shambles, toxic imports because business didn’t care enough to ensure that they didn’t bring in lead painted toys. Food didn’t get inspected. 1% of the cargo imports are inspected. Who knows what’s in all those containers. Slaughter houses were not inspected so we the biggest recalls of beef in US history. Airlines cutting corner on maintenance. It just goes on and on. There has to be a balance because there are irresponsible and fraudulent people in any group, private or public. So I decided that there have to be rules or people driven only by profit will do anything to cut corners no matter what the cost to others. Plus when it is corporations doing wrong it takes a while to find out but when it is in government there are so many eyes watching that either they are driven out of their posts or we all have a chance to elect someone else.

      • DaveH

        Mona,
        In free enterprise, companies don’t regulate themselves, customers regulate them. We read reviews about their products; we decide if their prices are acceptable; we inform others of our experiences with their products. Nobody makes our choice for us in a free market. If a company is fraudulent, then we take that grievance to court. If a company makes shoddy products, they won’t be in business long. If a company discriminates, they will fall prey to those companies that don’t discriminate but instead hire the best brightest workers. Have you noticed that even as the government gets ever larger, we still have big problems that the Liberals call for more government to solve? Will it ever be big enough for them?
        The government has been growing ever larger for several decades. What they call deregulation on the news is not deregulation at all. If you think that, then why is the government still growing? The real estate boom and bust which many think caused our current recession was brought on by shoddy lending practices which were encouraged by the government. Read “Boom and Bust” by Thomas Sowell if you want to learn truth instead of what the Liberals want you to believe. We can’t afford to leave our blinders on much longer. If your idea of living is to live under tyranny, then maybe you should keep yours on.
        The people in government and their friends are riding high on our money, but for the rest of us Big Government is the problem, not the solution. Government is not reason, government is force.

  • JOHN MYERS

    If you want a true story, I’ve got one. My wife, fully USA insured, became ill during a pregnancy. Her USA doctor tried to get her admitted to a USA private hospital in our USA home town and the hospital would not admit her, and the USA insurance would not support her admittance. The doctor changed her diagnosis to dehydration and they admitted her. The next day after her blood work was taken, the doctor said she needed surgery immediately. But no other doctor at the hospital would assist. The doctor contacted one of his teachers from Med School and that person said to send her over to the hospital owned by the state. The next morning at the state hospital she had surgery for cancer. She survived long enough to give birth to our daughter. Our insurance paid about half of the bill but left me with close to $100,000 of debt. I lost my home, I was fired because I missed work during her emergency. The state hospital and the state doctors were more caring and professional by far than the sleaze bag private hospital doctors. AND YOU KNOW THIS IS TRUE. Now my daughter is in college and went to the dentist for a periodic checkup which she does every 6 months or so. She had one cavity in her 21 years. The next time she went to the dentist the insurance said she was not eligible. Even though for 3 years they had no problem. We have never been late on a payment and so they decide to not pay. Out of the blue, HA. The BASTARDS. My wife is highly educated, very intelligent and very articulate. After several days the insurance company agreed they were responsible for two checkups a year. YOU CANNOT TRUST PRIVATE INSURANCE COMPANIES AND PRIVATE HOSPITALS. DUMB ASSES LIKE YOU WHO ARE ONLY INTERESTED IN SOME BULL SHIT PROFIT OF SOME DINKY INVESTMENT. I would not wish on you the same trauma that my wife and I endured. But BY GOD you will learn that you are hurting people with your lies and stories. AND OUR LORD AND SAVIOUR WILL COME DOWN ON YOUR ASS. AND REMEMBER MR MYERS THAT YOU ARE ALIVE.

    • DaveH

      Can’t you Liberals read the comment policy? Only people without valid arguments need to stoop to name-calling, ridicule, and other manipulative tactics like a bunch of young children. And wow, your compassion is obvious by your last words. I hope you aren’t on the panel that gets to decide my fate.

      • Mona Benge

        Dave. I think maybe this man deserves some compassion. As a life long conservative until the Bush years, I have come to believe that compassion is in short supply in the Republican party or they would have done something about health care during the 6 years they had a complete majority. They could have done it in the 2 years when the Democrats had the majority in a bipartisan effort but it is obvious by their tactics now that they never have had and never will the necessary compassion for people to come up with a solution.

        • eyeswideopen

          Mona,
          actually we had control from 1995 to 2006 in both houses of Congress, and didn’t address: energy, education, immigration, healthcare, trade agreements.

        • chuck schumacher

          Dear Mona–HR3200 is not the answer–read it for yourself !!

          • Smilee

            Have you read it, I don’t think so, I have read the most controversial parts of it that the conservatives keep yapping about and found that it does not match their spin, example: the death panels which I guess is the term developed by Sarah Palin’s imagination to promote another conservative lie designed to cause fear where no reason for fear exists. There is no death panel only that is if you want once every five years you can get this end of life advise paid for. But you are not required too. I have already sought this advise but had to pay for it myself. WE will all die someday but conservatives don’t seem to want to talk about that and make this reality of life sound like something terrible.

        • DaveH

          I’ve had about all the compassion I can take from the vicarious philanthropers. True compassion comes from your own wallet, not someone else’s.

      • Smilee

        Dave your as guilty of name calling as the worst on this site, so can the BS

  • Cathy L.

    Today in our Michigan senate, a joint resolution asserting a right to independent health care in the Michigan Constitution was introduced in
    Sen. Wayne Kuipers.

    Senate Joint Resolution K would allow Michigan residents to vote on a
    constitutional amendment which would proclaim that “every person has a
    right to provide for his or her own health care.”

    “This resolution is about preserving freedom and personal choice in
    making our own health care decisions,” said Kuipers, R-Holland.
    “With the current discussions about Obamacare, people are strongly
    expressing their concerns about what a public system might mean to their health care. I introduced this resolution to let Michigan voters
    clearly assert that we have a right to make our own health care
    choices.”

    SJR K states that no federal law shall compel any person, employer or
    health care provider to participate in any public or private health care system. The resolution also says “the purchase or sale of health
    insurance or coverage in private health care systems shall not be
    prohibited by federal law or rule.”

    Way to go, Wayne Kuipers! That’s what I call beating Obama at his own game.

    • Aydin Bircan

      What a stupid comment…No body or at least not Obama is suggesting that people do not have the right to take care of themselves…Exactly the opposite…Obama (like many others)recognizing the fix we are in, is offering solutions to change the paradigm…Insurance companies have to be reigned in and more affordable, accessible options for health care have to be put in effect…This is not a game when people’s lives are in balance, literally…No clever political play will prevent this becoming a reality.

      • American Citizen

        I beg to differ. Obama is trying to get everybody into a single payer system.

        • Smilee

          That is a solution has worked in many countries that no longer have the problems we do

      • DaveH

        Before you call someone stupid you should read the bill. We will have to either buy health insurance or have it provided to us by the employer or pay an extra tax if we choose not to purchase health insurance. As usual, a liberal who doesn’t know what he is talking about needs to stoop to name-calling.

        • s c

          B O’s health care scam will drive out MDs who care about their patients. It will protect MDs who surrender to government coercion.
          It is no coincidence that B O relied on the AMA for ‘medical experts.’ Most American MDs want nothing to do with the AMA. The AMA is in bed with government and the drug cartel. Government drives up health care costs, erodes the quality of health care, and yet demands that we see government as our health care “savior.”
          B O wants to saddle Americans with no choice, and he will demand that we call it the triumph of ‘choice.’ This the same prez who will not admit that his flunkies in Congress have 17 health care options. We will have no choice. B O refuses to practice the crap he preaches. The polite word for that is hypocrite.
          The only difference between b o and losers like stalin and hitler is that b o ran for office in America. Americans saw through stalin and hitler. Those who can’t see through b o and his devolved, utopian machinations hate truth and freedom. They are in-house tyrants. They should have lived in the 19th century, where they would have left the U S or paid for their ‘beliefs’ in battle. This is another chapter in the battle between freedom and tyranny. If you love your children and relatives, we dare not lose this battle.

          • chuck schumacher

            You have said it all.

        • DixieConnie

          And if you are a small business owner as I am, this all scares the h__ out of us.

          • Smilee

            WHY? What is it you fear, it actually would be a plus for you small business people.

      • chuck schumacher

        What fix are we in?? any illegal caan walk into a county hospital and get immediate care–and he sure doesn’have to worry about paying for it.If u read the various sections of HR3200 It is NOT THE ANSWER. READ IT FOR YOURSELF.

        • Smilee

          Your starting to sound like a broken record Chuck

    • DixieConnie

      I hope the State of Texas is the next in line to take this approach.

  • LAS

    Probably should buy Gold and Silver because of the devaluing dollar not just Healthcare Reform! So neither system is perfect American’s do not flock to Canada for health related treatment nor do they go to Europe. I know several people in Canada, one it is far from free or $96.00 per month for premiums. There are not 47 million uninsured poor soles in America ………. certainly Healthcare Reform is needed, justified, yada, yada. We need to read it, debate it and do not need to throw out the baby with the bathwater.
    Change is good, but didn’t need to be accomplished in two weeks, should not be pushed without Tort Reform along with all other controls they are still considering. Everyone is spun up over lies? Just because they got weak kneed and removed certain parts does not mean it was now a lie be a tad concerned of the original intent. Cram it through, we will let you know the details later ………… Hello!

    • American Citizen

      Actually, you don’t have to wait for the Federal Government to initiate tort reform. That can be done at the state level. Our state has already done some in limiting the amounts that can be awarded. I don’t know how well it’s done as I haven’t seen anything on it for quite a while. But at least it did something.

      If you watched the Town Hall meeting in Virginia yesterday, someone asked that question. Why isn’t tort reform in the bill. The Senator said it was left out intentionally because it would be one more group (trial lawyers) that would be protesting the bill. Cowards!

      • eyeswideopen

        It was left out, because they believe that the states have the right to have individual tort reform laws.. First you people are made at the government for imposing laws, then you are mad that they don’t impose them.. .get a grip. Our states should have some input.

        • DaveH

          Glad to see you admit that Eyeswideshut. Indeed, the Federal Government should stick to their Constitutional limits. And forcing the nation to have national healthcare is not one of their powers.

          • eyeswideopen

            Dave, I appreciate that you don’t like me, but could you obey your mantra and stop calling me eyeswideshut?? I don’t call you Dude, or dud, or stupid or anything similiar, but you have to try to get your little dig in don’t you?? It is interesting that those who cry foul over name calling are also subtie violators.
            I know you are frustrated that a Libertarian is not running this country, and actually Ron Paul is more of a Republican than most of the proclaimed repubs, however the Constitution provides for the pursuit of happiness and healtcare seems to come under that part. If it was illegal, don’t you think the greatest legal minds of the Republican party would have sued long ago?

        • American Citizen

          Eyes, do you comprehend what you read? Isn’ t that what I said, that tort reform should be done at the state level? And it was a senator that said it was left out of the bill intentionally.

          • eyeswideopen

            Wasn’t responding to you… check it out.

      • DixieConnie

        Cowards.

  • don’t worry be happy

    Canadian health care costs have become a runaway train. At its’ current level of growth healthcare will consume 70% of most provincial budgets by 2020. I have seen the ambulance drivers [ first responders ] go around town and load up every drunk and junkie they could find and take them to the emergency rooms in the hospitals.

    Under law they, the EMT’s, cannot leave their “client” until he/she is admitted by the hospital staff. Of course the hospitals will deal with real patients first so in the meantime our heroic ambulance drivers sit around for hours on end billing the city. When it get’s really clogged up they declare a “Code Red”. Code Red means there is not enough ambulances free to cover the routinely expected volume for that shift.

    Usually they phone the media and get them in on the juicey story of how our province/cities heathcare is in dire straights. Of course the gutless politicians cave in instead of firing some of the ringleaders in the scam. Next thing you know taxes go up.

    I had a friend who was setting up an air ambulance service to rush patients to the big city hospitals from a half dozen smaller rural hospitals. A 150- 200 mile trip depending on the town. Of course he had to put in a bid on the costs per airmile ect. Out of the blue there were town councils fighting the implementation of this service as well as the local ambulance companies. He had already been awarded the contract. After he had a few meetings with the concerned hospital boards things were straightened out. He RAISED his rates!!

    What the problem was his twin engine plane complete with oxygen, patient monitors a pilot, co-pilot and two EMT’s was CHEAPER than what the ambulances were charging. The medical industry is scamming the taxpayer big time.

    • chuck schumacher

      Wow–u have opened my eyes. Thank u.

    • Smilee

      Sound like bullshit to me

  • American Citizen

    My husband and I are both in our 70′s and we have never had a problem with the healthcare in this country. While we worked we had private insurance that covered every health problem we’ve had. I bore 6 children and insurance paid. We’ve had surgeries, all covered. My husband has had strokes, all covered plus rehab. I have had cancer treatments, checkups, etc. for 12 years. Have cost us very little. It’s true, we may have had to pay a little, but health care should not be totally free or people will abuse it. Even with Medicare, we have to pay a deductible at the beginning of each year on Part B. Even the supplements will not pay for that. We also have to pay a bill if a doctor or hospital sends one after all insurances have paid. But the care we have always gotten, no matter what hospital or doctor, has always be A-one.

    • eyeswideopen

      So, you are saying that government run, socialized healthcare is grade A?. You mean to tell me that as a Republican you don’t want to repeal Medicare? How about Medicaid or the childrens plan, do you want to repeal those? How about the Military healthcare, or the Veterans healthcare, do you want to repeal those?
      Oh, I see, you want 45 million Medicare patients to be able to retain their A-1 care, but the 47 million that don’t have health care, can just suffer? That makes me so happy to know that I am still underwritting your healthcare with my tax money and you don’t want anyone else to have the same kind of care….Oh how Christian of you.

      • chuck schumacher

        If u recall our glorious leader wanted the People in the militay to pay for their own health care. That was really great of him > I guess it would cuts the costs down–care to reply to this??

        • Smilee

          That was a Bush administration initiative that got no where

        • eyeswideopen

          The Bush admin, has prevented 250,000 vets from participating in healthcare that they deserved…. Wrong Pres.Chuck.

      • American Citizen

        Eyes, you must not be on Medicare. We pay for it just as you would another insurance for the most part. Medicare for part A now has a dedutible of almost two thousand dollars. The supplement for which we pay a premium picks that up. The deductible for Part B, which the supplement does not pick up, is now, I believe $120. It may be a little more,The premium for Part B is almost $100 now. We also pay a premium for the Medicare drug plan. Altogether, we pay, my husband and I together, over $500 a month in premiums. The premiums are taken out of our Social Security so we don’t get a bill for them.
        Medicare pays up to 80% of the charges it ALLOWS. Some things it will not pay for. The supplement picks up 80% of what is left after Medicare pays. So there is always a remainder that the doctor or hospital may write off or may bill you. It is not strictly speaking socialized medicine. Also. they are talking about lowering the payments by Medicare to 71% next year.
        I think it would be better if the government would just pay a premium for private insurance for people who are destitute. It would be much cheaper for the taxpayer and would keep it out of their lives. The things that really need fixing are being ignored. For instance, why is health care so expensive to begin with? Start at the bottom.
        Monday, on C-Span, there will be meetings with hospital CEO’s, doctors and ER personnel. I hope they ask the right questions, The hearings begin at 8:30 AM EDT.

    • Smilee

      Why have you not bought a medigap supplement plan and then you would only pay the premiums mine costs $185.00 per month + $96.40 for Medicare B premium and I pay nothing at the doctor or hospital, insurance pays the deductibles and 20% portion + some things medicare pays nothing for.

      • American Citizen

        Smilee, are you talking to me? I wish when someone replies to someone else, they would use their name, then we wouldn’t have to guess who the reply is to. I said my husband and I do have supplemental insurances. We pay, together, close to $300 a month. That’s the only one we get a bill for. Part B and Part D, the drug plan, come out of our SS. But together, all the premiums add up to over $500 a month.

  • American Citizen

    The New York Times printed 5 lies that Obama is telling about the healthcare plan that he hasn’t read.

    Lie #1 – You can keep your doctor and insurer.
    #2 – There will be no rationing in Medicare
    #3 – There are no death panels
    #4 – The plan contains costs
    #5 – Illegals are not covered

    Anyone with any common sense who has read the bill knows the NY Times is telling the truth here.

    • eyeswideopen

      Eligibility for Medicare, from the original Medicare Act. states:65 yr old US citizen or permanent legal resident for 5 continous years and they have paid Medicare Taxes for at least 10 years.
      Senator McCain stated yesterday, in his town hall meeting that their are no death panels. I guess you don’t believe him?
      The reform bill will stop subsidies to the Big Pharma industries, it will stop the subsidies to IBM for 400 million. So, yes it will save about 170 billion dollars.
      I am so sorry that our party has scared you and others,this type of fear mongering is driving away the talented new voters, who could have become Republicans. No one wants to be associated with a party that would scare our seniors like this.
      By the way on Neil Cavuto tonight, he asked the Republicans to admit that we spent like alcoholics drink and to apologize, beacuse being hypocrites is getting us nowhere. That was on Fox business channel tonight.

      • chuck schumacher

        Our glorius leader projects a massive trillion dollar debt for years to come. I will give u a clue–buy all the silver and gold u can get your hands on because your paper dollars wont be worth a tinkers dam.

      • American Citizen

        Eyes, the NY Times has been a liberal rag for years. Now we shouldn’t believe it?
        Yes, because Sarah Palin has the nerve to all that part of the bill that would ration care due to your age or cost of care a death panel, the Democrats hurriedly took it out.
        I agree the Republicans did nothing about this issue while they had control of Congress. But that doesn’t mean that every time a conservative says something you liberals don’t like that it is a lie. How do you know the liberal media isn’t lying to you?
        The way the bill is written, the bureaucrats who will implement it can make any rules they want as the parts are not specific, only general. That’s why this country is really run by bureaucrats. Every bill and program the Federals put out are written this way.

        • Jim

          The didn’t take it out. It wasn’t in there to begin with. Read the bill.

        • eyeswideopen

          American, John McCain, stated no death panels, who do you believe, him or the famous non-intelligent quitter Sarah? That women will get this party in trouble with her lack of education, non logical mind and lack of research.

    • chuck schumacher

      American Citizen–U got it all covered !!

    • Smilee

      You better go back and reread it if you read it at all, as the New York Times did not say that. The bill does not say that, Obama has never said that, Please get your facts right!

      • American Citizen

        Smilee, I hate to say it, but you and some others here are in denial. You don’t like to hear truth because it doesn’t jibe with your opinions. I know what I hear and read and that’s what I report.

        • Jim

          I don’t know what you read, but it wasn’t the bill!

  • Richie

    I’m an American/Canadian living in the UK and love the health system over here. I haven’t had any real health scares and personally I need to be near death to even go to the doctor to avoid the hassle but I did have some complications with my teeth and had to go to see a dentist (British teeth jokes commence). I booked an appointment that morning and was in my 10 AM. I had a damaged wisdom tooth that was pulled and two cavities that needed fillings. Took less than an hour and was charged $60. Was on an airplane to Spain later that day.

    I spent a year in America doing my graduate studies and didn’t so much as bother as lacing on a pair of rollerskates for fear that I would bash in my brains or bust a nut in my adventures.

  • DaveH

    Most of the comments I have read involve personal experience, which is interesting but such a small sample size cannot hope to develop the big picture. Try thinking outside the box. First of all, who pays the disinterested middle man who will be making decisions about your healthcare? Who pays for all the extra paperwork involved in a government-run plan? Who pays for the court cases which inevitably result from a truckload of extra rules? With those extra expenses the only way the system can pay for itself is by forcibly reducing the wages of the health care professionals and drug companies to a below-market rate. That’s fine for 2 or 3 decades as the people already in the profession will probably accept their bitter medicine and keep on keeping on until they retire. And then? Oh boy, all hell is going to break loose, because very few people are going to spend all that time and money in school if they aren’t well compensated later. If you think there is a shortage of doctors and nurses now, wait until that time comes. Maybe those lazy people, who want something for nothing, will step up to the plate and become doctors and nurses. Right, dream on.

  • James Corbin

    This is just a step closer to communism. If Obama gets his healthcare
    (government controled) He is taking control little by little. Can’t people see what is happening. After awhile there will be NO freedom—–One world religion(Muslim)One world Government and )ne world Bank!!!
    NO freedom of speech!!! It is coming!!!

    • Rod

      Your right ! Except for one thing, He is not taking over little by little, It’s by leaps and bounds. Have you listened to Glen Beck on
      Fox News? He will be on at 3pm the rest of the week. Its Gonna blow
      your mind! Have everyone you know watch. It’s gonna scare the – - – -
      out of you. The world is about to change! Your rights and mine are
      going right down the tubes unless we STOP THEM.

      • chuck schumacher

        AMEN BROTHER–WHAT WE NEED IS ANOTHER CZAR WITH A COMMUNIST BACKGROUND

  • Rod

    Folks, we have to vote in 2010! Bring in a NEW Congress! NEUTRALIZE
    Obama NOW or, your world is going to “CHANGE” One of Obama,s newest
    tricks is: He has taken the responsibility for finding and naming
    terriosts out of the C.I.A. and has has given the power to a group
    he has personally appointed and reports only to Obama who will
    decide who is and is not a Terriost and what punishment they will
    receive. If you watch the news on these Town Hall meetings, Palosi
    said, anyone who dose not agree with us will be considered a Terriost
    and will be treated as such!
    Watch Glen Beck on fox news at 3 pm (Mountain Time) the rest of this
    week and then PRAY and VOTE in a new Congress in 2010.

  • Rod OH

    If you people who read this sad sack conservative crap and really believe it, yor are either the most naive induviduals I have ever met OR you just want to remain in a cocoon of total ignorance for the rest of your lives. My wife is from Canada and her family still lives there and is treated and I can tell you from my own personal experiences that this article is the most unmitigated, anadulterated misinformation I have scene to date on the Canadian Health Care System. We, the USA spends more “per capita” on health care than any civilized copuntry in the world and get the absolute least from it (if you are even lucky enough to have it). The rich elite lobbyists who are spreading these lies and misinformation, will not win this time around. I am convinced of that. Better wake up people and start to learn about those richer than you who want to spread this garbage, because that is exactly what it is.

    • chuck schumacher

      Read HR 3200 for yourself and Google it at Libery counsel and get the summaries of the bill before u shot off your mouth.

      • JDR

        Why don’t you provide a few quotes seeing as you claim to be an expert. Then people can see that your claims are legitimate, right?

        I have read sections of the bill that are generating the most controversy like you will be forced to just a public option, I say you will not be forced.

        Here I’ll show you, here is a quote from the document that you can then go verify for yourself.

        “Sec.201.Establishment of health insurance exchange; Outline of duties; definitions.
        (a) Establishment- There is establishment within the health Choices Administration and under the direction of the Commissioner a Heath Insurance Exchange in order to facilitate access of individuals and employers, through a transport process, to a variety of choices of affordable, quality health insurance coverage, including a public health insurance option.”
        Now if you disagree you can find the quotes that prove your position.

        • eyeswideopen

          JDR,
          Good job !!

        • American Citizen

          Apparently, some do not understand what they read in the bill and I don’t blame you as it’s written in lawyerese. But Obama himself has said we would all be forced onto a single payer system within 10 to 15 years. That’s the goal, total government control.

      • Smilee

        Chuck is that what you have been reading? It does make it easier to understand all your BS

    • American Citizen

      Every country that has gone down the tubes has not heeded the warnings. If you don’t study history and learn from it, you are bound to repeat. We are going the way of socialism and some of the things Congress and Obama want to put on are are tyrannical. Be very careful of what you ask for.
      Why are some Democrats trying to silence conservative voices, HMMM?

  • Brenda

    I didn’t vote for Obama, Thank God, He gave me a brain & I will vote ALL THE DEM’S OUT OF OFFICE in 2010, starting with Obama. I like my freedom. If you want a socialized government, THEN MOVE.
    GOD BLESS AMERICA!

    • Smilee

      Nice he gave you a brain too bad he neglected to teach you how to use it

  • Brenda

    “Socialism is the Philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy. Its inherent virture is the equal sharing of misery” – Winston Churchill -

    • Jim

      Churchill wasn’t right all the time. Gallipolli and Dieppe come to mind as well as allowing the area bombing of Germany. (Not the bombing, the area bombing for those who will jump all over me and say I’m a pacifist). Einstein wasn’t right all the time either, by the way. One thing is for sure, pure capitalism doesn’t work without some socialist influence. Pure socialism doesn’t work without capitalist influence. We have a pretty good balance in this country, with some minor modification it might become perfect.

  • Brenda

    ” A government big enough to give you everthing you want, is strong enough to TAKE EVERYTHING YOU HAVE”. – Thomas Jefferson -

    ” The problem with Socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples money”

    GOD BLESS AMERICA!!

    • eyeswideopen

      Socialism for the rich and capitalism for the poor happens when State policies assure that more resources flow to the rich than the poor.
      Right now the Medicare Advantage plan is making sure the Rich (Big Pharma) is getting our resources. The government also gave corporate subsidies in the amount of 92 billion during 2006 to: Boeing, Xerox, IBM, Motorola, Dow Chemical. This is also what Obama wants to change. The capitalist political economy towards large coporations allows them to privatize profits and socialize losses, which is just what we watched congress do for Wall Street, to stop a depression, but deregulation and lack of oversight caused this horrible situation.

  • al

    You’re a big liar, Mr Myers. I don’t have any personal experience with the health care in Canada but every Canadian I know never complains about it. You’re a big liar pushing the republican baloney while masquerading as a writer in a health care site. Mr Myers, you’re a total jerk.

    • chuck schumacher

      why dont u read the various sections of HR3200 > Either read it or shup up about it.

    • John Myers

      Dear al,

      Why would I lie?

      Before you call someone out on something like that, think about it. Meanwhile you are not a Canadian but you have lots of friends who are, so you know lots about Canadian healthcare…. is that it?

      I was born Canadian. Even though I have American citizenship I have spent over 30 years living in Canada including hospitals stays and two surgeries. My wife was a health care professional that worked for the Calgary Rocky View Hospital for a decade and then worked five years for Sacred Heart Hospital in Spokane, WA. (Check employment record to see if I am lying.)

      One of my best friends from my four years at the University of Calgary went on to become a doctor at the Univesity of Alberta. He now lives in the States because he didn’t like the Canadian healthcare system. Finally, check a 2005 poll taken in Canada that shows that two-thirds of Canadians are dissatisfied with healthcare. Maybe all your “Canadian” friends are in the one-third that is happy. Or maybe you are an “expert” on Canada because you can see it from your back yard.

      • JDR

        Your viewpoint does not reflect Canadians attitude. I can’t find your vague reference to 2005 but here is a poll from this month – The rest of this article is available at medicare.ca – I would suggest that your position is very partisan and this is why your position is so biased.

        “August 12, 2009
        On eve of medical association’s annual meeting:
        New poll shows overwhelming support for public health care
        CMA president out of touch with most Canadians
        (Ottawa) In a last ditch effort to convince Canadians that the public health care system should be privatized, Canadian Medical Association (CMA) President Robert Ouellet has promised to “pull out all the stops” during the association’s annual meeting next week. Trouble is, Dr. Ouellet’s mission to “lead the change” to privatization, is exactly the opposite of what 86% of Canadians want.

        A new poll conducted by Nanos Research points to overwhelming support (86.2%) for strengthening public health care rather than expanding for-profit services. “With more than eight in ten Canadians supporting public solutions to make public healthcare stronger, there is compelling evidence that Canadians across all demographics would prefer a public over a for-profit healthcare system,” said Nik Nanos, President of Nanos Research. Nanos Research was commissioned on behalf of the Canadian Health Coalition (CHC) to conduct a random telephone survey of 1001 Canadians between April 25th and May 3rd. The margin of accuracy for a sample of 1,001 is ±3.1 percentage points, 19 times out of 20.

        As well, the federal government just released its report: Healthy Canadians – A Federal Report on Comparable Health Indicators 2008. Its findings identically mirrored the CHC polling results. In that report, a leading indicator pointed to the fact that, “Most Canadians (85.2%) aged 15 years and older reported being ‘very satisfied’ or ‘somewhat satisfied’ with the way overall health care services were provided, unchanged from 2005.”

        “Throughout our campaign, Canadians have told us they want to keep our health care system public and to improve it with made-in-Canada solutions. They also have told us they flat-out reject Dr. Ouellet’s proposal to provide us with American-style two-tier medicine. This poll certainly underlines that for us. Eighty-six percent is a significant portion of the population,” said Michael McBane, National Coordinator of the Canadian Health Coalition. “It is striking that Dr. Ouellet could be so out-of-touch with the pulse of most Canadians…”

        • John Myers

          Source: The Harris Poll® #71, July 2, 2008. Also see non-fiction, The Undercover Economist, Tim Harford, Anchor Canada, 2005, page 120.

          • JDR

            Well you really should read your reference – what it says is that the American system is the least popular with the public:

            “Overall, because the United States system has by far the largest number of harsh critics (33% versus 20% or less in other countries) it is fair to describe the U.S. as the most unpopular.”

            The Canadian level was 12%. So everything that you say is the opposite of what your reference implies.

  • http://MSN Patty

    If this national healthcare is so good, why have congress and the senate made sure they won’t be subjected to it? What’s good for all of the citizens should be good for the politicians as well.

    • chuck schumacher

      AMEN

    • Smilee

      Democrats are willing to give you the same health care choices they have but the republicans will have none of it and unless the democrats in the senate can get by a filibuster the republicans will most likely succeed in this.

  • chuck schumacher

    Here are the facts–HR3200 is the most horrendous bill being foisted on the American Public. If you have any doubts–Google–Liberty Counsel–they have published a 10 page summary of the bill. Anyone who reads this will understand how gross this bill is. If anyone wants to debate the bill with me they can call me a 1-800-376-3614. Anyone who reviews the very onerous sections of the bill and agrees with it has very serious mental problems.

    • Jim

      Read the bill, not the summary.

  • chuck schumacher

    How come I am not getting any calls for debate?? After going to Liberty Counsel to get the facts on how crappy HR3200 Please call and I will be pleased to debate this with anyone.

    • Smilee

      Doubt anyone believes you have read it and then there is the question if you have can you understand it, it appears from your posts here you do not so why waste the time and it is not what the law will look like anyhow and it is only one of about five bill there but you do not mention them all you want to hit on is the conservative talking points which are nothing but misinformation that they are famous for

  • ROD OH

    I noticed that I wrote a very informative post countering this obviously emotional and biased article on the Canadian Health Care System – and lo and behold – it did not get posted. Is this your brand of censorshiop for the rich elite “Haves”, BOB?

  • ROD OH

    Whoops I was wrong on that account. My post never appeared until I wrote anotheer one. But I need now to reply to Brenda, whom “thinks” shre knows the meaning of “socialism”. Brenda, the “rich elite insurance and medical execs” who don’t want things to change one iota have taspped into mind sets like yours. It is not even close to being an argument about socialism versus freedom. The point YOu and others who buy into this “pure garbage” are missing is that there are close to 40 million people who DO NOT have health insurance. And even if yiou are lucky enough to have it now,, you will not be able to afford over the next decade. THe powerful “rich” in this country have found a way to “Tapp” into the less intelligent conservative mind sets of the population and “fool” them wwith tghe argument that this topic is about “freedom”. THat is pathetic

    • Cathy L.

      Yes, It IS about personal freedom! What right does the gov’t have to tell us what type of health coverage they will give us? What right do they have to mandate health coverage, or at the very least, the same exact health coverage for everyone? (Except for the Congress). It is not a right for everyone! It is a privilege! Have you read the constitution? There is nothing in it about a “right” to healthcare.
      “Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.” Those are our rights.
      Nothing about healthcare.

      You say there are 40 million without healthcare. Approx. 36 million are illegal aliens. (I’ve heard many different numbers for that category, but bear with me here). Do those who have sneaked into our country, have a right to our healthcare? That will only continue to open the flood gate of illegal aliens who know they can get US benefits and not be US citizens.

      Should those of us who have worked hard to afford health insurance, pay for those who have never worked but have chosen to live off of those who do, have a right to healthcare?

      There is also a large percentage of people who make over $75,000/year, who choose not to buy healthcare, and use their money for other things….should we pay for them too? That’s their choice not to buy insurance, and that’s their freedom. But don’t make me pay for theirs when instead, they’re buying plasma tv’s, iphones, blackberries, home theatres, boats, vacations. Some of us go without those things so we can afford, and choose to, buy health insurance to protect our family.

      • Jim

        LIFE, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Sounds like health care to me.

  • Brenda

    Dear Rod, I disagree with you, at this time I have the right too. Why is Obama trying so hard to pass everything. (Red Flag) Wall Street bailout in 24 hrs, stimulus bill – passing legislation BECAUSE the Presidents say so is a bad idea! Now lets pass the Health Care bill before they can read it, they wilL need a lawer anyway. They don’t need to know it is going to raise taxes, increases the deficit, 53 new permanent BUREAUCRACIES over the next 10 yrs, cost over l trillion. Do you know how much interest we are paying China for all the loans, thanks to the Obama administration. Do you like our dollar, well it is going. Yes, we need to work on Medicare & Medicaid. Let’s just show down (the fraud costs to taxpayers ETC.) Rod, all the hee-hawing is not getting to the truth. WE DON’T NEED A GOVERNMENT-RUN HEALTH CARE SYSTEM.

  • Brenda

    AND SMILEE, HAVE A GOOD DAY!

    • Smilee

      Thank you kindly, so nice of you, Have a great day yourself

  • Cathy L.

    If you’ll notice through this entire blog, it’s the liberals who call conservatives names. I say….name calling denotes a weak cause! But the bottom line is this: none of us are going to change our minds about the way we think, and none of us are going to convince the other side about a single point we make. So there you have it. This is all ….just a waste of time!

    • Brenda

      I do know people that voted for Obama and they regret it. I also know Democrats that did not vote for Obama. We can only pray Republicans and Democrats will work together and do the right thing for America. I am not a die-hard for any party. I do know when our country is going down. So many soldiers have died and are fighting for our liberties, we don’t want to live in bondage.

  • nancy

    ok, im just an average US citizen, ive never really stayed up with the state of affairs, until this administration…ive been reading these posts and the one about Texas being sold to China, sort of un-nerved me. Can anyone please help me understand this. Im thinking, sorry i dont think a president can sell a state, can they? anyone have any info on this?

    • Smilee

      What garbage can did you dig that one out of

      • nancy

        smilee, this was in here on an earlier post

        • Smilee

          OK then that is the garbage can, sorry I missed it

          • eyeswideopen

            Smilee, you need to go to page two.click to see older comments..

          • Smilee

            eyeswideopen says:
            August 27, 2009 at 1:36 pm

            Smilee, you need to go to page two.click to see older comments..

            EWO could not find it would you give a name and date etc. Will not say someone didn’t post this somewhere but I still think is all garbage

    • American Citizen

      It’s not just Texas, it’s the whole country because China holds our debt, or most of it. In other words, we’ve been bought.

  • nancy

    smilee that was on an earlier post here

  • BABUSHSKA

    Obama, among his other socialist plans, is to build a civilian military that will be armed to keep us safe from? each other? Check out this quote he made a year ago.

    “We cannot continue to rely on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives we’ve set. We’ve got to have a civilian national security force that’s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded.” – Barack Obama July 2, 2008 @ Colorado Springs.

    Brown shirts here we come!

    • JDR

      Well you have either been lied to and repeated it or are lying intentionally. The text of that speech can be found at:

      http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008/jul/02/text-obamas-speech/

      The call is to serve in the military in the community etc. There is absolutly no mention of civilian military.

      Pitiful, ignorant lies. my god what is with you.

    • Kevin

      We’ve already had one (1) Hitler…WE don’t need another…

    • Smilee

      I guess they caught you red handed didn’t they, doesn’t always pay to repeat the conservative lies does it

  • DaveH

    For those of you who believe the government is the solution – look at these websites. For those Liberals who will inevitably complain that I take these figures from Far-Right websites, find your own and do your own figuring:
    http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/charts.html
    http://www.censusscope.org/us/chart_popl.html
    http://www.census.gov/population/www/popclockus.html
    Notice that the population has grown about 20% since 1994;
    But government spending has grown 150% since 1994.
    And yet, there are people on this board that claim that conditions are lousy, and we need more government. I guess maybe we need 200% or maybe 300% government growth. Wow, I am amazed by Liberal logic.
    I just wish I could figure out some way to invest in this growth industry.

  • DaveH

    For those of you who believe the government is the solution – look at these websites. For those Liberals who will inevitably complain that I take these figures from Far-Right websites, find your own and do your own figuring:
    http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/charts.html
    (continued on next reply)

    • DaveH
      • DaveH

        http://www.census.gov/populati…..ockus.html
        Notice that the population has grown about 20% since 1994;
        But government spending has grown 150% since 1994.
        And yet, there are people on this board that claim that conditions are lousy, and we need more government. I guess maybe we need 200% or maybe 300% government growth. Wow, I am amazed by Liberal logic.
        I just wish I could figure out some way to invest in this growth industry.

        • eyeswideopen

          Wow, you just made my case. Spending increased that much from 1994? Gee, seems that was just when the Republicans got and retained power in both the Senate and House. Actually it was 1995 till 2006. I know you hate the Dem’s but how about admitting that the Republicans have been the ones to grow this government?? I am one, and I can admit that we weren’t fiscally responsible…why can’t you??

          • DaveH

            EyesWide,
            You have read my comments. Don’t play dumb. I am Libertarian. As I have said many times before: Both Parties are growing government, but all you have to do is look at the Congressional record to see what party votes most for the spending bills. I know that you are capable of learning unlike Sleepee, so please do some research on the beauty of free markets and limited government. I haven’t voted for any candidates other than Libertarian for my entire life. I won’t throw away my vote by voting for anyone who believes government needs to be bigger.
            If you have an open mind like I think you do then read this online book:
            http://mises.org/rothbard/foranewlb.pdf
            If you read it honestly (with no hostility going in) I believe it will change your outlook. Don’t be afraid, it won’t force you to wake up.

          • eyeswideopen

            Ok, I started reading, will I be able to ask you questions without you showing prejudice?

          • DaveH

            Sure, but I’m a died-in-the-wool Libertarian so don’t expect me not to be faithful to my beliefs. I realize after 30 years of talking to others that the unknown is very, very scary, so I certainly wouldn’t expect people to flock to the party. I think though that it will be similar to the fox-hole believer concept. That is, after we totally collapse they might think “Damn, why didn’t I see that earlier?”. Too late.

    • Smilee

      Why not refer them to the government sites so they can get their information from the horses mouth instead of all they sites you recommend that have gone through the conservative filters but then of course they would know the truth would they not and that would expose the BS you keep pushing.

      • DaveH

        Can you read Sleepee? As I said: “Liberals who will inevitably complain that I take these figures from Far-Right websites, find your own and do your own figuring:”

  • DaveH

    For those of you who like to call anyone that disagrees with you a Liar. Watch this video. And note that this guy (Howard Dean) is the head of the DNC. Do you suppose Fox altered the video (sarcasm)? I know you will convince yourself somehow that the lie isn’t a lie.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rb-NFzmcvKs

  • DaveH
  • Annie Ladysmith

    You should call 911 next time, or have your ‘really on it’ wife take you to the nearest ER not a walk in clinic…what did you expect?
    I am not a socialist, not anywhere close, but, socialized health care in Canada seems to work. When i think about traveling and getting sick i’ll take the care in Canada any day. I worked about 15 years as an RN in the states so i think i can comment. Doctors in America are so very concerned about their bank accounts they have no time to consider the ‘patient’ as a human being.

  • BABUSHSKA

    check out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt2yGzHfy7s re: Obama’s civilian military, you fools.

  • Bill Whitfield

    I am an expatriot, living in Austria. I needed a liver transplant, approx eight years ago. I almost died twice before they finally put me on the list, then they skipped over me a few times, which caused me lots of pain and stress. After almost a year and a half, and within a week of dying, or so the doctors told my wife, I finally got a transplant. I am now doing great but it was hell being put on wait.

    Also, my wife needs a hip replacement. She can barely walk now and they told her she still had to wait until the pain became unbearable, then, the waiting list is 1 1/2 years before she can get the operation.

    In Nov 2008, my brother-in-law found out he had liver cancer and needed a transplant. The Austrian government refused to give him one because he was 65, too old. He died in January!

    Yea Obama, we need your socialist health care like we need another 9/11, which we will probably be attacked again because of Obama’s idiotic policies!

  • Tom Dort

    Up until Oct. 2008 I lived in Kalispell, MT (about 70 some miles from the Canadian border) When taking my wife to see the Dr. at Kalispell Regional Medical Center for her diabetes I used to see lots of cars with B C, and Alberta license plates and the people who owned those cars said “You don’t want what we have.” They came to the US for treatment because they could get it in a timely manner and not die or suffer for a long time first. There are several Drs. offices near the hospital. If you could go there now or any day of the week you would see what I am talking about.

  • American Citizen

    Read this the other day. “You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy into poverty. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.”

  • http://ACYCLOVIR.TK Medic

    A medication is a licenced drug taken to cure or reduce symptoms.

  • Vicki551

    If the government run plans that are being proffered in the House and Senate are so great and wonderful, how come the Congressmen and Senators are not willing to include themselves and their union supporters in them from the getgo?
    I noticed that the President downgraded the number of un-insured in his speech last Wednesday to only 30 million from the 47 million they’ve been repeating over and over, ad nauseum, all summer. (Check out the transcript of the speech yourself if you doubt it.) With the rise in unemployment since the beginning of the year, you would think that the number of un-insured would have gone up by a couple of million at least instead of down. Could it be that they’ve finally quit including the 13 to 20 million illegals that were being counted in the total all along? He was able to say that illegals won’t be covered by whatever bill passes because he knows that any bill they pass doesn’t take effect until 2013 and they will have given all the illegals amnesty by then. Voila! No illegals covered by the health care reform bill!
    A true health care reform bill could be written in fewer than ten pages, not the over 1000 page monstrosity that HR3200 is. All they would have to say is: ALL CITIZENS OF THE UNITED STATES ARE ENTITLED TO APPLY FOR, AND PURCHASE, THE EXACT SAME HEALTH CARE CHOICES THAT THE UNITED STATES CONGRESS AND SENATE HAVE NOW. ANYONE WHO CANNOT AFFORD THE PREMIUMS CAN APPLY FOR ASSISTANCE THROUGH THE MEDICAID PROGRAM THAT IS ALREADY IN PLACE. There is nothing in that statement about the government having the right to have access to everyone’s medical records, access to everyone’s private bank accounts, cross referencing everyone’s IRS tax returns or establishing 53 to 57 more federal bureaucracies to oversee, implement and regulate all of the provisions that are specifically listed in the proposed House bill HR3200. (Every one of those provisions I just listed are specifically written in HR3200. Look them up yourself.)
    I didn’t even need ten pages, or even one page, to have a comprehensive health care plan that would cover every citizen of this country that wishes to be covered. I didn’t set up any boards or committees to oversee anyone’s personal health or lifestyle choices. I didn’t put in any convoluted language like “this paragraph supercedes paragraph G, subset VII of previous statute such and such from October, 1995″ as there is in numerous places throughout HR3200. John Conyers was absolutely right when he said there was no point in actually reading HR3200 as it was completely incomprehensible to someone of his level of intelligence (or almost anybody else for that matter) and he’d need two lawyers to try to explain it to him. (And, he’s a lawyer himself!)
    The ONLY point of the currently proposed health care / insurance reform programs that are being pushed by the government is total control over the citizens of this country. They are systematically dismantling, or taking control of, every segment of the private sector. This is “just one more brick in the wall” to quote the song from Pink Floyd. They have known for many years that Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security will be bankrupt by 2030 or so and not one of our elected leaders or representatives have been willing to do a thing to stop it. The collapse is coming faster than a speeding freight train and they’re desperate to find a way to cover their a**es. If they can get this government option passed before it happens, they will get a flood of money in to the system from the new taxes and new patients to dodge the bullet for a little while longer. They’re counting on the fact that they, themselves, will no longer be in office when the sh*t hits the fan and won’t have to bear the consequences of their inaction for all the years they were in office.

  • http://GABAPENTIN-TRAMADOL-COMBINED-EFFECTS.TK Henrys

    Tramadol is an opioid used as an analgesic for treating moderate to severe pain. It is a synthetic agent, unrelated to other opioids, and appears to have actions on the GABAergic, noradrenergic and serotonergic systems. Tramadol was developed by the German pharmaceutical company Grunenthal GmbH and marketed under the trade name Tramal®. Grunenthal has also cross licensed the drug to many other pharmaceutical companies that market it under various names, some of which are listed below.

  • Renee Bouvier

    Like it or not, the U.S. health-care system is a failed system. If you possess a HMO plan and actually use it, you will find a “courier” either by your bedside in the hospital or at your front doorstep once you have been released from the hospital to intimidate you into not receiving life-saving medical treatment. The best way to obtain full health-care in the U.S., utilizing one of these HMO plans, is to pay out-of-pocket to seek medical consultations from the best professors of medicine at the leading university hospitals. Then, make arrangements with these top professors of medicine to be admitted into the hospital as an inpatient through the ER of the university hosptial to receive any and all medical treatment. These top university hospitals, like the Hospital of the University of Pennsylvania, the Thomas Jefferson University Hospital, the Bringham and Women’s Hospital, the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, MN, the Cornell University Hospital of Special Surgery, etc., all possess private security and police forces, preventing insurance carriers going to the patient’s bedside, threatening and intimidating the patient into leaving the hospital. For example, if an insurance carrier were to show up at the Hospital of the University of Pennsylvania, the insurance carrier will be promptly arrested and transferred to a city prison in Philadelphia, PA. The identity of this insurance courier will then be made available for the patient, patient’s doctor, and the university hospital to then sue as an indivdual in addition to suing the insurance corporate entity. If the courier decides instead to show up to the patient’s home, once the patient has been released, the patient is advised to take one’s car and smash it into the courier’s car just after telephoning one’s local police department to report a car accident. This way, the patient can obtain the identity of the courier to then sue. By causng this minor fender bender, one can then obtain all and any information about the insurance courier for purposes of litigation. Otherwise the courier will flee free to intimidate other patients in similar situations. People will then think twice about seeking such employment with various insurance corporate entities, if they soon realize that they will be sued and will not receive any significant support from their employer, the insurance corporat entity. The courier, employee, will then be on their own to face felony charges and huge litigation fees.

  • Renee Bouvier

    The pharmaceutical industry is another issue here in the States. The federal and state governments are actually proping up failed pharmaceutical companies, such as the Celgene Corporation, located in New Jersey. Celgene receives 75% (seventy-five percent) of its revenue from a sixty or so year old drug, Thalidomide, by obtaining a patent on dispensing this ancient drug. The patent extends from 1998 through 2018. Before this patent was awarded the Celgene Corporation, one could obtain one hundred (100) 50 mg capsules of Thalidomide for approximatly $200 through one of the AIDS foundations or other foundations catering to women with lupus and other diseases, such as leprosy. Since the patent was awarded, one can no longer obtain the generic form of the Thaliomide capsule. The generic capsule is now considered counterfeit here in the States,thereby rendering it illegal to dispense the generic capsule here in the U.S. One can now only obtain the drug, Thalidomide, through a very tedious process (often rendering it almost, if not, impossible for the seriously and chronically ill patient from receiving this life-saving medication) from the Celgene Corporation, which charges almost $4,000 (almost four thousand dollars) for twenty-eight (28) capsules. Even if the patient were to possess a Traditonal Plan (full comprehensive insurance plan, possessing an annual premium of at least $30 thousand with a Major Medical of 80%), the drug would cost the patient a prohibitive amount every 28 or less days. The only patients, who can afford to purchase this drug in the United States, are those on Medicaid. This means the federal and state governments are picking up the Celgene’s tab. That is, the American taxpayer is paying to artificially prop up this corporate entity of Celgene, while the patients are made to suffere horrifically. The fact that the Celgene Corporation in New Jersey obtains seventy-five percent of its revenue from this prosaic drug today, even after more than eleven years of obtaining this government patent, signifies the very fact that this corporate entity is not using your tax dollars wisely by engaging in research and development to create new therapies to receive its revenue. Instead most of your tax dollars are being pocketed by this corporate entity’s CEOs in the form of private jets, which one can see landing at private airports in Central New Jersey — part of the Golden Belt of New Jersey. If you are wondering how people can still afford those CL AMG Mercedes and those estate homes in addition to their very own private jets, Celgene CEOs and other CEOs from various corporate entities are stealing your money, while you and your neighbors children, wives, husband, sisters, and brothers suffer horrifically and die. Take back your hard-earned tax dollars and save the patients — your mothers, your fathers, your brothers, your sisters, your daughters, and your sons. We kill more people in this country each year by deliberately withholding medical treatment than in all of the wars put together in American history. Why? We need to stop artifically proping up failed corporate entities and failed industries. The health-care insurance industry is another artifically propped up industry. Each state in the United States has a contract with one or more health insurance corporate entities. That is, you, the taxpayer, is paying to prop up this industry, even though you are either underinsured or non-insured. While you are shopping in Central New Jersey and happen to see a private jet flying overhead, that’s your tax dollars at work.

    • Renee Bouvier

      For those, who use the cliche of “socialism” to delay revamping the perhaps dismantling in total the private insurance industry, using Canada and Cuba as examples, you might check the mortality rates of these two countries. The U.S. has the highest mortality rate and the highest rate of preventable disease, than these two countries. The United States now rates lower than forty-four (44) countrie of the world. That means that the U.S. health-care system is inferior and flawed in comparison to many Third World countries. It’s very easy to throw around cliches, especially if one is deliberatel isolating oneself from the truth or purposes of greed. Unfortunately, there is no longer a sense of community here in the United States. Most Americans are now concerned with profiteering off of the suffering of others within their own borders. Now that the government is providing free flu shots, most people, screaming “socialism” when it comes to revamping the overall health-care system to create a balance between the private and public sectors, are taking advantage of these “free” vaccines without any complaint of “socialism.” “Free” vaccines is “socialism,” because the taxpayer is paying for your “free” vaccine. How convenient to criticize the virtues of “socialism,” when it doesn’t directly affect you. When it does directly affect you, you keep quiet and take advantage of this “free” medical treatment.

  • http://www.stanelaine.com Stan

    Like John Myers, I have duel citizenship. The N.H.S.(National Health Service) in the UK served quite well in it’s earlier years,especially for lower income people, but it was never free. There is a mandatory N.H.S. deduction in every paycheck. Every working person contributes to the system. It sounded reassuring that the government allegedly picked up the rest of the tab, when in actual fact the taxpayer did. That’s the simple version, and it worked….for a while. Over the years it has deteriorated somewhat due in part to various factors such as; inflation, huge influx of immigrants, overburdened systems & governmental incompetence. Yes, it has it’s flaws (as in the US)and is in desperate of updating. But as yet, I have had not experienced the unpleasantness expressed in the many comments. I lived in Germany for several years and I have no complaints about the ‘Krankenkasse’ which was similar, or equivalent to the N.H.S. I have lived in the USA now since 1977 and I mostly had private insurance with ER & Dr. visit co-pays and thus far,, for the most part, I have found the service satisfactoy. There is obviously much room for improvement here too. However, the ‘panic’ created by the government & the Media, to re-tool the entire healthcare system is beyond unreasonable. It is a critical issue that concerns everyone and it should be carefully thought through and certainly not pushed and rushed through. Even properly managed, it is going to take time,patience and …money. Other than the elite, it will affect over 300 million Americans and we ALL seriously need to work together on this one. Let me repeat a quote from Edwin Vieira; “WE THE PEOPLE must combine our economic resources and abilities with political and legal authority in large scale organizations that will reflect the POWER inherant in numbers” Be warned folks, this Healthcare Reform Bill has nothing to do with the ‘health’ of our citizens, nor ‘caring’ for elderly and sick. The fact that it is being crafted (craftily) behind closed doors should make it abundently clear that it will not be good for the American people!

  • redhawk

    Yes Virginia there are Common sense Practical solutiions to Health Care for the USA. It can happen ONLY IF Governors are allowed to design it on a bi-partisan basis. After seeing the Governors convention and Hearing how and What many States are working Intelligently to resolve the many issues facing Uninsured Americans and Raising Costs it became very clear that a ONE SIZE FITS all Federally dictated Program will only result in more insanity driven EXPENSIVE additional programs by Bureucrats in DC.
    It was brought up that average costs increases by Private insurers raises at about 2% per year( NYT Study), While average costs for Bureucratic Managed Medicare and Medicaid rise at 8% per year… States have implemented programs that are applicably to other but not all States due to demographic differences but may have some Commonalities. The Knucle heads in Dc are too Politically motivated to play games for selfish reasons while Governors are on a2 term basis and MUST balance Budgets… ANOTHER GOOD REASON FOR TERM LIMITS…. and accoutable Job Peformance????If you all can watch C-Span it was an eye opener to see mostly Intelligent public servants working to gether to arrive at solutions…
    May be we MUST Fire everyone inCongress and teh White House, send Governors for a frw weeks to DC to Solve all of out PROBLEMS… Cheaper, Smarter and Result orients…

Bottom
close[X]

Sign Up For Personal Liberty Digest™!

PL Badge

Welcome to PersonalLiberty.com,
America's #1 Source for Libertarian News!

To join our group of freedom-loving individuals and to get alerts as well as late-breaking conservative news from Personal Liberty Digest™...

Privacy PolicyYou can opt out at any time. We protect your information like a mother hen. We will not sell or rent your email address to anyone for any reason.