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Lawmakers Propose Bill To Protect Sale Of Traditional Ammunition

April 25, 2011 by  

Lawmakers propose bill to protect sale of traditional ammunitionTwo United States Senators have teamed up to protect the rights of hunters and fishermen, proposing a bill that would update the Toxic Substances Control Act of 1976.

According to FOX News, Senators John Thune (R-S.D.) and Jon Tester (D-Mon.) recently unveiled legislation that would limit the regulatory capabilities of the Environmental Protection Agency. The bill comes in response to a campaign by conservation advocates to ban the use of lead in ammunition and fishing tackle.

Thune and Tester said that a ban would lead to higher excise taxes on more expensive ammo, which could alienate many hunters and fisherman.

"The EPA's overreaching regulations in other areas are already negatively affecting jobs and businesses across the country, and I am committed to ensuring that ammunition and tackle do not become subject to arbitrary regulation," said Thune, quoted by the media outlet.

Some activists claim that the use of lead in ammo and tackle is poisoning the country's lakes, ponds and forests.

However, the National Shooting Sports Foundation (NSSF) argues that there is no scientific evidence proving that traditional ammunition is harming wildlife populations or their habitats.

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  • Cawmun Cents

    How come they are not protecting my environment here at home from a spend hungry government?Does their environment only extend to areas which they decide?If my home is my environment,and it is,then why isnt an agency which is proportedly supposed to protect my environment,not doing so?I dont see thwm protecting my children from government programs which will make my kids subservient to the government for the rest of their natural lives.Since the environmental protection agency isnt doing its job,Isay ti should be disbanded and defunded immediately.

    • Tom S

      Well said. In addition to regulating ammunition, there’s a back door deal going on right now to ban guns and ammunition world wide through the UN. It’s being called a Terrorism treaty but it’s nothing more than global gun confiscation buy the useless UN. Can you picture middle east countries and the Taliban telling the UN to shove their treaty where the sun doesn’t shine. Of course, Bin Bama, the “Brady” bunch and Clinton are behind it 100%.

      • Mick

        Tom S says:
        April 25, 2011 at 7:18 am
        Well said. In addition to regulating ammunition, there’s a back door deal going on right now to ban guns and ammunition world wide through the UN. It’s being called a Terrorism treaty but it’s nothing more than global gun confiscation buy the useless UN. Can you picture middle east countries and the Taliban telling the UN to shove their treaty where the sun doesn’t shine. Of course, Bin Bama, the “Brady” bunch and Clinton are behind it 100%((((((((((((((((((((((((((((
        Tom S,,,,,,You’re absolutely right , it is a back door to eventually ban the population from owning guns and deprive us of our rights to do so, they’re slowly taking control and we will be forced to comply just like good slaves should.
        So much for Liberty and the pursuit of happiness the United states used to stand for….

        • wandamurline

          Hiliary Clinton and George Soros are partners in Center for American Progress…yes, she is one of the enemies of the state. You can comply with their demands to fork over your guns if you want to…I for one will use mine on anyone who shows up to try to take them from me. I will NOT turn mine in and I believe the the millions of us who believe that the Constitution gives us the right to bear arms will do the same. It is time to stand up for our rights by whatever method is available.

          • http://none k.p

            Hunters and gun owners need to band up and force legislation to protect their gun rights as the Constitution provides and the best way to do that is to join gun lobby groups like the NRA and local groups in their own states. The anti gunners have and are banding up and lobby in Washington. The only way to beat them is to have more representation. Gun owners need to promote all gun organizations, join and support them. There is power in numbers. We all need to do this now. The biggest anti gun assembly of politicans of all time are now in Washington and are planning behind closed doors to remove our gun and ammo rights. urge your friends, relatives and acquaintances
            to join local gun clubs, national organizations to defeat them.

        • Cawmun Cents

          When the environ(mental)protection agency uses its power to decide such things,then we have full blown tyranny on our hands.This is no longer backdoor deals by which laws are changed,this is full frontal assault on liberty.What a sham our government has become.How much more will they attempt to throw at us?They must think we are weak.I believe that they are trying to get us so angry,that someone will attack them and then they will understandably crush the”rebellion”and scare the rest of the people into subservience ala “Waco”.The folks who are in power right now are dangerous.But I also believe they are prepared.They monitor us continually.Personally I dont care if they do because,I live in the United States of America,and the rights given to me by the creator cannot be taken away by them.I can say whatever I want to say,as long as I do not speak seditiously as they do.I can believe what ever I want to believe.Do I think this is some kind of conspiracy theory?No.I know that there is an agenda being pushed.I have too many friends who lived on the other side of the socialism fence to decide differently.These government jackasses dont care about the people like they claim they do.They want absolute power over who you are.They want to steal your identities,and make you seem weak to the rest of the world.How sad that we let them do this kind of thing.One of two eventual outcomes will occur.Either you will capitulate and become the drone society which they are purveying,or it will backfire and there will be a battle like the world has never seen before.Either live as a slave to the system,or fight and possibly die for the freedom and America which you grew up loving.The choice will be ours.How comfortable are you being a slave to them?That is what you must ask yourselves…

          • Cawmun Cents

            Many progressive caucus members talk about how their ancestors were slaves.Does it even bother them that the decisions they are making create financial slavery for us all?The redistributon of wealth.That is what it seems to me is happening.You can of course disagree with me.But the democrats and their quasi-liberal buddies called republicans are attempting to make slaves out of our kids.What I really want to know is,who do we owe the debt to?Who will come to collect if I dont pay?Will they confiscate my freedom?Will they kill me and bury me with thousands of others using bulldozers to grind our bodies into the earth?Will they infect me with a disease?will they burn me with fire?Will they make me have an accident and just disappear?I cant wait to see the answer to this question of what will they do to me if I refuse to join their world system.Will they just keep me poor and downtrodden?Someone grying in the wilderness with no voice at all?`Is that their aim?I wonder if they realize that God is watching?Do they even care?

          • 45caliber


            I saw the American Communist Party “Rules for Takeover of the US” back in 1968. They were put out at the time by the Air Force Academy and they noted that the rules were still in force.

            The ACP shut down officially in the 80′s – and most then joined the Democrat Party. In fact a high number of Congressmen are affiliated with them.

            There were three rules:

            1. Destroy the ruggedness of the American people by concentrating their attention on spectator sports and sex.

            2. Take control of the news media and use it to prevent the people from knowing what is going on in their legislative halls and to tear down the image of any natural leader the people might wish to follow.

            3. Disarm the population through gun control.

            I don’t think the Communists alone are still using those rules – but I think some group is. And I believe they have No. 2 nailed, are working on No. 1, and are trying hard to get No. 3 done.

          • Cawmun Cents

            Does the phrase”from my cold dead fingers”mean anything to you?Just asking…..

        • JimBow

          So you will surrender your guns rather stand up and shoot?

      • Conservative United

        UN——United Nutcases!!!!!!

      • EddieW

        Hillory and Obozo are pushing for the UN’s treaty for the US…to take away our guns…You cannot enslave an armed people!! and they have nasty plans for us, including the advancing Police State!!
        The second Amendment says “this right” to own guns, “Shall NOT be abridged”…Wonder how they plan to get around that, except to scrap the Constitution…which they are already doing!!!

        • GRusling

          Make no mistake, the “Advancing Police State” has one severe limitation, they forgot to ask “Police Officers” how they feel about it!

          I work with the Police each and every day, and I don’t know a SINGLE OFFICER who would even CONSIDER trying to take the guns of a law abiding citizen.

          Of course, residents of Chicago, New York and Kalifornia may have a problem, but they don’t DARE come to “Fly-Over-Country” and try to confiscate our guns. Even LIBERALS no what that would get them…

        • Robert Smith

          Hey Eddie, you say: “Hillory and Obozo are pushing for the UN’s treaty for the US…to take away our guns…”

          I’ve asked several times and apparently there is no beef.

          Is there any printed word about this mysterious “treaty”? Can you quote anything from it where my guns will be taken?


          • JeffH

            Robert, stop with your game playing and quit being an idiot. You’ve asked the very same question recently but apparently and conveniently ignored the answers along with the links provided.

            Do your own homework for a change and quit wasting our time!

          • Jay

            Robert, you bozo!

        • 45caliber


          The argument is that there wouldn’t be many of the wars in the world if the various groups who would like to take over the countries couldn’t get guns. However they always forget to tell you that the guns are actually given or sold to them by other governments.

          Take Mexico, for instance. They keep telling us that the drug cartels are buying guns in the US. NOT HARDLY! They use a lot of M-16′s (or M-4s) from the US but those are given by our government to their government – and are then sold to or stolen by the cartels. They also use a LOT of Russian AK-47s they buy overseas and have shipped in. Most of the American bought guns are bought by individuals who sneak them back to family in Mexico for defense since they aren’t allowed to have any.

          I’ve actually seen one person (on Letters to the Editor) complain that there was a war going on in Rowanda due to guns being brought in. And he was right – in a way. The government had become the ownership of one tribe. Their military was driving around the country and exterminating the other tribes in the country. The survivors of the other tribes got guns and were shooting back. The person writing the letter was upset because “they were fighting the government and the government was there to protect them.” Riiiiggghhhtt.

    • Ken

      Your all on track! Be sure and relate this info to averyone you work with. It is truly a sheep in wolfs clothing, they are trying their best to totally control the U.S. pop. for thier “one world government” with G.Soros a commander-n-cheif and Bin Obama as his general{nusicience} here in the U.S. PATRIOTS ARISE!!!!

    • Jovianus

      As soon as I saw the headline on today’s article, I knew the wild accusations and denigrations would be spirited. This forum is becoming well known to have extremist viewpoints as well as ones which make no sense to any rational thinking person.

      So what’s the beef about limiting lead in ammo?

      I understand about ballistics and shot in hunting waterfowl and gameland birds. Steel shot doesn’t match the characteristics of lead shot. I fail to understand the gripe about banning it from bullets and fishing tackle. Face it…most “hunters” aren’t hunters. They are wimped out, testosterone inhibited, sadistic killers who take little from the hunt itself, and seek only to sate a blood lust. The term ‘city hunter’ is not a new term.

      Game birds may be an issue, but the benefits of limiting any introduction to the environment of a dangerous metal outweighs that in my opinion. Lead is lead, and shot gets missed in cleaning. I, for one, would rather not have the kids eat lead by mistake.

      It’s another attack on the EPA and chipping away at the areas it regulates. You think it’s not doing a good job? Go to another country and take a gander at the environment. Then come back and say regulating industrial metals is not a good idea.

      • Cawmun Cents

        yeah I have met dozens of children who chew on bullets and fishing tackle,and even swallow them whole….what an Idiot!

        • Jovianus

          From your post…you should have your blood checked. Elevated lead in your system causes a short ciruiting of reasoning aptitude in your brain.

          • JC

            Until you have something to contibute, get back in your cave, troglodyte.

          • GRusling

            You’re either an idiot or a fool for posting such tripe here. Maybe your problem is that you ate too many lead sinkers when you were a baby…

          • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

            I thought that was done by adult beverages…

          • Jay

            Hey JC, lol! troglodyte? i’ve never heard of that word before! Funny! BTY, why do you waste your time and intellect on joy anus?

        • http://PrsonalLibertyDigest Elmer C. Ripley

          There have been more wars fought overseas than any other location in the World. The lead content in the earth should be thick enough to build a road from Europe to Asia. The lead content in our own country from the Revolutionary and Civil wars certainly is substantial yet I have not heard of any one dying from lead poisoning in this or any other counrty. I know of no one who has From paint yes,from ammo, NO! The politions are as usual, blameing the wrong cause. And from meat is uterly rediculas as there would be multitudes of dead hunters and a gov’t investigation as to why so many passed on.

          • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry


            I have known of people who have died from ingesting lead at high velocity…

            Maybe what we need is a three day waiting period before any liberal politicain can espouse an opinion.

        • skip

          Cawmun – I’ve read all of your blogs above and I really am worried about you – you just don’t make any sense at all. I’m not putting you on – you use no logic, no reason, have paranoid thoughts, seem to be scared of all sorts of hobgoblins, monsters, etc. that must be living in the center of your mind. I would encourage you get a thorough psychiatric evaluation somewhere. If you are a veteran, try the VA. If you are lucky enough to have any sort of private health insurance that covers mental illness, have your primary physician arrange a referral. I’m afraid you are going to do something terrible to yourself or to those around you. Once again, this is well intended advice. I don’t want to read about you in the headlines or see you on the evening news like Columbine or Virginia.

          • Cawmun Cents

            I am worried too.When you are looking at me through the barbed-wire fence at the FEMA camp,just remember that I love my country.I love being an American.But I hate what is being done to my nation right now.Seems like I have to have less so everyone else in the world can have more.I cant think of anything less American,or more communist than that.Maybe you can…..but if you know what it is to be an American….I doubt it.But it is likely I will see you from across the divide someday,and I will be worried about you then.

      • Al Sieber

        Jov., sounds like you want everything regulated, whats next? when will it end? lead comes out of the ground to begin with.

        • Jovianus

          Lead is found undergound, in concetrated deposits. We’re talking about the chance, the avoidable chance, of it entering the food chain. If no one is concerned about that, maybe we shoud allow depleted uranium bullets ?

          • TIME

            My God, ~~ where do you come up with these outrageous comments that you post over and over again. Have you ever been hunting?

            I have and I can tell you that lead in a bird or deer is not an issue, thats 100% totaly bloody absurd. Also I am not a Bloody Thirsty mindless killer.

            When I was a kid we depended on wild game to live on, we also ate a large amount of fish.
            And oddly not a single one of us was fat, nor unhealthy, as in none of us even had a cold or flu. We had heat only from a stove in our kitchen, we had no air conditioning, did I note no inside pluming.

            I can also say with a high degree of certainty that Native Americans also did likewise for thousands of years prior to the Europeans landing in the new world.

            Thus all your comments so far are at best bent, but more in line with completely off the charts of sanity.

            Perhaps your statment that “this blog sight is getting known for absurd rantings” is due in large part to person’s like you who make so many absurd statments that its beyond reason.

          • Jovianus

            Time…if you took the time to read my comments, you’d realize I was NOT speaking of those who ‘hunt’…heck, I still have the first shotgun i was given at the age of eight (a nice little scatter gun. 20 gauage with a single shot 22 overhead. Great for grouse, rabbit, etc …or geese sitting in a field etc…). And yes, i’ve deep forested hunted in my time…and there is nothing more aggravating than seeing ‘road hunters’ from the city who think they’re the reinacarnation of Daniel Boone as they drive the logging roads or sit in a tree looking for an easy kill.)

            So you’ve never bitten into a pellet? Never known anyone to?

            Doing away with dangers we accepted via ignorance in the past is not bad. We used to have lead paint, we used to have asbestos insulation, we used to have formaldahyde in our insulation and sideboards. You desire a return to that?

          • JC

            Wow Jovi…you’re reference to city borne Daniel Boone Road Hunters, is the most intelligent thing I’ve ever seen come out of you.
            Good job.

          • skip

            Sorry to tell you guys, but lead is a rather horrific toxin, particularly for the brain and nervous system. It has been known for years/centuries. It has really caused a lot of problems when in clay pots, pewter cups and trays, moonshine radiator stills, foundry workers, in paint as you all know, and the like. I would strongly encourage all of you disbelievers to eat with pewter, paint your kids’ bedrooms and your own with lead based paint, work in a foundry, and make moonshine with a 1937 Chevrolet radiator. Then run for president on the Libertarian ticket – don’t regulate anything for yourselves, just go for it. Just reject outright 3,000 years of history and fact – what the hell, it is what you personally and individually think and feel that is correct. Try making a moonshot, or a 747, or replace a heart valve using a heart-lung machine based on just how you feel today – and let me know on this blog site when you succeed.

          • Jovianus

            Skip….I’d use a ’41 Chevy radiator…tastes better and pre war materials…they used the good stuff back then :)

          • GRusling

            You post pure absurdity. Lead poisoning comes from only one source, slow absorption over time from our environment (of course, there’s also a bullet between the eyes, but I digress). You can’t get it from “biting a bullet” and guess what? EVERYTHING was painted with lead paint when I was young and I STILL (at 70 years old) don’t have lead poisoning! Like so many other things, that one is nothing but a manufactured “BOGEY MAN” with no basis in reality.

            Act like you have a LITTLE common sense. Look around you. If ANY of the “fears” you try to spread were true, “lead poisoning” would be a common source of sickness and death, but it’s NOT and never has been…

          • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry


            “Have you ever been hunting”?
            Jovi hunts here alomst everyday looking for the truth. So, judging from the fact that he cannot see it in plain sight,I think it best he stay outta the woods with a firearm, or anything sharp.

            Hey, did you also walk to school uphill both ways with newspaper in your shoes to cover up the holes? Juuuust funnin’ ya TIME…..

            Ya sound a lot like my old man did and his brudders when my cousins and I were kids… HA!

          • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

            Ya know GR I am more worried about LIBERAL POISONING than lead poisoning. Ir rots the brain much faster than lead.

            Yep, everything was painted with lead paint back then, even our houses. And ifn ya buy Chinese stuff today you can relive yer past….

          • Cawmun Cents

            Nope lets make bullets out of chelated zinc that way when you get shot,you’ll get your daily allowance for sure.Mix in a little iron,phosphorous,iodine,magnesium,copper,molybdenum,chromium….and get full benefit out of being shot.Heck why not make Flintstones Degradable Ammunition,all your vitamins and minerals with every shot.Choices include Fred,.45cal.Barney,.357magnum,Wilma, 9mm,Betty,.38+p,Bamm Bamm,.22magnum,Pebbles,.22.Dino,12gauge.A lot of the home-skillets out on the streets what aint gettin’the vitamins and minerals what they need,could be benefittin’yo!

          • 45caliber


            Yes, lead can be dangerous … over time and if allowed to build up. But you could swallow the largest piece of lead you can get down and it won’t do much to you. It takes a little at a time over time. That’s why lead paint was dangerous to kids – they ate it over years of time. That’s why moonshine made in radiators of lead was dangerous – they drank it for many years. But let’s go back a little.

            Most old tableware was made of lead and tin (pewter). People ate with it all their lives and drank from mugs or goblets of the same stuff. If it was as deadly as you seem to think, there wouldn’t be any Europeans. All would have died off.

            Lead is basically an overblow toxic material. Just like many others are. And the quantity that is put into the woods by hunters is so minor it is pitiful.

        • Steve

          somethings just need to be left alone especially now…go find something else to regulate…lead has been in bullets for years and years…oh but now all of a sudden we need to regulate them….what a coincindence…

        • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry


          While reading / musing the comments and your statement that lead comes from under the ground. I wonder if God put it there as a shield from the radiation in the Earth’s core? If so, the liberals have really missed an opportunity. Whenever we remove lead from the ground we are CREATING A HOLE THAT ALLOWS RADIATION TO ESCAPE!

          We must stop creating holes in the radiation barrier!

          Ya think we could get those holes to somehow line up with the ozone holes and get them to sinc up?

          • 45caliber

            Ol’ Henry:

            Now you are just messing with their minds. I wouldn’t be a bit surprised to see some liberal Congressman start using that very argument in the near future.

      • Cawmun Cents

        Since when is regulation gone awry a”wild accusation”?So let me get this straight,you think that more regulation is good right?As long as the points being regulated are ones you agree with.What happens when you no longer agree with these regulations and they are still pushing them on you?Will we hear you speaking out against them then?How does another regulation benefit anything?Does it keep everyone safe?Will you let op rule and regulate you into obscurity?When does it all end?To what end are all these regulations?I think these are honest questions and not wild accusations.How about a new regulation?No more new regulations…..just update the old ones occasionally when necessary.The operative phrase here is”when necessary”.This kind of thing is not necessary.

        • Jovianus

          CC…for the most part, I don’t believe more regulation is good. I believe updated regulation is necessary to have bad actors conform, public health and safety ensured to the best extent possible, and the marketplace competition be made fair and level.

          In my view, when we degregulated the financial markets in ’98…that wasn’t a good thing wiping out Glass Steagal. No one can argue it benefitted anyone but the big banks and investment houses while endangering the public and national security/economy. However, the GOP proposed it, and some Dems were paid off to support it, and it became law. What it did was concetnrate the markets into more of an oligarchical system and screwed the little guys. OK…that was a policy decision and one of Clitnon’s greatest errors was his signing the bill.

          Where we really got screwed was when Bush and the GOP Congress cut the funding to oversee what little regulatory powers were left. Eliminating the wall between banks and investment houses was bad enough…eliminating the number of people who enforced and make sure of compliance with remaining regs was the killer. No one watched the henhouse…and risk became that of the public and profit remained private.

          In my opinion, there should never be any company, bank, entity which is “too big to fail”. That’s the reason we have anti monopoly laws on the books. Otherwise, we get placed in the position Obama inherited and had to deal with. He’s still dealing with it. Thankfully it’s working and we’re coming out of the economic morass and now need to deal with the corruption of Congress because of the monies which now control legilsation over the good of the public.

          • GRusling

            You forget, the “President” doesn’t make laws or provide funding for anything. CONGRESS does that little trick! Who was it who denied any NEED for more and better regulation of outfits like “Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac”? You might need to study your Congressional history a little more because it was CONGRESSIONAL DEMOCRATS, not Republicans. Who was it who swore that both organizations were in GREAT financial shape just a couple of months before they collapsed? BARNEY FRANK, to the best of my knowledge, has NEVER been a Republican!

            If you don’t know and understand what happened to us in all of this, and WHO was responsible for creating the monster, you really need to just stay out of such discussions…

          • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry


            And don’t forget Chris Dodd – the bottom half of the “waitress sandwich”,as I remember.

            I’m guessing there is probably no one here that remembers that one.

          • Jovianus

            Just to set the record staright…the hue and cry was Fannie and Freddie knew what they were doing and should get in the game then being played. Bad call…and when it was made most in the banking industry said it was pure baloney. But then, everyone in the mortgage industry was making money hand over fist and thought it would never end (like most bubbles…which is akin to what you’re seeing today with gold and silver. It’s a bubble, and one that has about six months to a year before popping).

            Significant to note, neither Frank nor Dodd called for less regulators on the street. That was an administration decision dealing with budget funds operating the SEC.

            Thank you (I was working for JP Morgan Chase at the time and am very familiar with the mortgage industry collapsing)

        • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry


          I am guessing that Jovi LOVES IRS regulations and is begging his congressperson for more.

      • JR

        Jovianus, this isn’t about regulating massive amounts of concentrated, toxic substances being indiscrimanently dumped into the environment. The issue is over regulating out of existence the use of small amounts of lead being used in traditioanl ways in sporting endeavors. The possible accidental ingestion of a lead pellet by someone isn’t going to release enough toxicity into anyone’s bloodstream to cause symptoms of lead poisoning. If so, please back your assertion with evidence. Even in places where there is a history of significant amounts of lead being discharged from firearms, like battlefields and firing ranges, there is no evidence of elevated toxicity from lead in the surrounding environment.

        Your comments: “This forum is becoming well known to have extremist viewpoints as well as ones which make no sense to any rational thinking person.” “…most “hunters” aren’t hunters. They are wimped out, testosterone inhibited, sadistic killers who take little from the hunt itself, and seek only to sate a blood lust.” “…you should have your blood checked. Elevated lead in your system causes a short ciruiting of reasoning aptitude in your brain.” These demonstrate a propensity on your part to denigrate your opposition by the use of the typical liberal, progressive technique of the ad hominum attack. Your demonstrated symptoms indicate that you may be off your meds.

      • Boltman

        Jov – You’re hooked on the government’s HYPOCRISY. They are worried about a small amount of lead while they mandate the use of CFL bulbs in our homes. These are in fact hazardous materials and with no testing on the long term health effects on people. What a wonderful gov’t we have!!!

      • JeffH

        Jovi the parrot! Polly want a cracker?…baaarrraaaccckkkk!

      • 45caliber


        You are wrong about “most hunters”. Most are sincerely interested in the sport of hunting or hunt for food as a necessity – and they don’t want these people around like you describe. But I would bet that you aren’t near any of them or at least don’t know it because most hunters seldom brag about what they bag. A few hunters fall into this category – and they generally don’t hunt very long unless they are very rich. I’ve seen too many of them disarmed by other hunters, escorted out of the forest, and informed that if they come back, they may remain there permanently. The good hunters won’t put up with them.

        The rich bad hunters generally go to special places where they can hunt with none of the real hunters around.

        Don’t confuse the two. There is a BIG difference.

        And don’t talk about ammo as you did here. If you don’t know the differences, you can’t make a good point to those of us who do. Steel ammo won’t go as far, won’t be as accurate, and is too likely to wound rather than kill. We real hunters don’t like to wound anything and will go to extreme lengths to prevent it. But it doesn’t help when people like you start acting as if you know all about it.

        • independant thinker

          “You are wrong about “most hunters”. ”

          45……….jovi is most likely describing himself and anyone he hunts with.

          • Jovianus

            LOL … uh huh …sure thing.

      • JeffH

        jovi-communist, the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) announced on Aug. 27, 2010 that it had denied a petition by the Center for Biological Diversity (CBD) and other radical groups that had sought a nationwide ban on the use of lead in ammunition.

        The petition, filed in early August, “falsely” claimed that lead ammunition poses otherwise unavoidable hazards to humans and wildlife, and should therefore be banned under the Toxic Substances Control Act (TSCA). In particular, the petition claimed that lead projectiles endanger birds of prey—even though populations of some species, such as the bald eagle, are at an all-time high.

        The agency explained in a news release that it “does not have the legal authority to regulate this type of product under the Toxic Substances Control Act (TSCA).” Further crushing the hopes of anti-gun and anti-hunting activists, the release added: “… nor is the agency seeking such authority.” Because EPA has no power to regulate ammunition, it announced it would not move ahead with a public comment period on the petition.

        The greatest irony in the situation is that if the petition had been successful, the effect on wildlife would have been devastating. A mandate for lead-free ammunition would have priced recreational shooting out of many Americans` reach, reducing overall ammunition sales and, in turn, slashing the amount of Pittman-Robertson excise tax dollars that would be available for wildlife projects. In a very real sense, these supposedly bird-loving petitioners were trying to kill the goose that laid the golden egg.

      • JeffH

        Jovi, “Face it…most “hunters” aren’t hunters. They are wimped out, testosterone inhibited, sadistic killers who take little from the hunt itself, and seek only to sate a blood lust. The term ‘city hunter’ is not a new term.” Another of your left wingnut driven unsubstantiated drivel.

        The largest, most successful wildlife conservation program in the world, the Federal Wildlife Restoration Program, is fueled by hunters.

        Over the past 70 years, hunters nationwide have contributed more than $6.4 billion dollars to wildlife conservation efforts

        “The Federal Aid in Wildlife Restoration Program is the most successful wildlife conservation program in the world and serves as a financial cornerstone to the North American Model of Wildlife Conservation. It benefits all wildlife species, conserves and restores habitat and helps enhance wildlife conservation through research,” said John W. Bowers, Wildlife Resources Division Game Management assistant chief.

        “Through this program, America’s hunters continue to provide the most substantial source of funding for wildlife conservation and management in the United States.”

        The program was established through the Pittman-Robertson Act in 1937. Through lobbying efforts in Congress, America’s hunters created this act as a way to fund conservation and management of the nation’s wildlife.

      • South Texan

        Have you ever tried to melt steel to make a bullet? The old black powder type guns would be ruined if they used steel shot. Using steel would probably triple the price of ammo. Everything that this Administration has done has caused prices to increase 7 jobs to disapear. Try to match the words that come out of the WH & the actions happening in this country & I bet there won’t be a single match. My wife & I are sending her mom, 79 year old ex waitress, $500 a month so she can eat. Per the WH, there was ‘no increase in living expenses last year;, so you don’t need a cost of living increase. Name 1 thing that has gone down in price recently.

    • skip

      If your home is the only environment you care about, you are back to the stone ages. What a selfish position, but that seems to be the way the nation is going – in your face, me first, me only, screw the rest of you. Try living on this earth alone these days – don’t use our roads, our schools, our safe airspace, our clean water, our salmonella-free inspected food, our sewer systems, our FDA approved medicines, our postal service, our police and fire protection. It is time for you to pack up and go to rural Alaska or Nevada – we won’t bother you, but don’t you for a moment ask anything of the rest of us. I personally don’t want my government to spend a stinking cent on you.

      • Cawmun Cents

        No matter how much your stinking government seeks to rule and regulate me I wont be ruled and regulated…hows that?I think that my ability to think like 1776,trumps your ability to think like 2011.You sir have an infantile perspective and desire to make it the only one that can be presented.What have all the billions of waste your party has spent done to benefit those who it was procured to benefit?Think about all the programs instituted to help inner city youth,to apparently no avail.Think about your quest to improve the healthcare system apparently to no avail.Talk of conservation by liberals who use as much energy as conservatives and berate them for it.You want to make the planet safe?Blow your freakin brains out.You have a beter chance to save the world that way than the way you’ve set out to accomplish it.And you will have saved me a big hassle in between.I dont want your style of governance,I definitely don need your style of governance.I believe that you would regulate me into my grave if you had the chance….well heres your chance.You’ve got the talking part done…lets see how good you are at the doing part.

        • skip

          Cawmun, just get the heck out of society and off on your own, don’t use any of my tax money, and stay out of my way and my life. You don’t need government, and don’t want civilization – back to the jungle for you and your buddies, but don’t consort with your buddies because they might ask you to make a few agreements or concessions like who is responsible for keeping the fire burning. You’ll enjoy being up 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. But be careful when you go hunting because the fire might go out. Use all the lead you want when you hunt, but don’t drive on my country’s roads on the way to the gun and ammo store. Once again, history, science, knowledge, education, health care are no interests of yours – avoid them and deny them.

          • Cawmun Cents

            Something about the”consent of the governed”,is bothering me skip.Would you like to share what you know about that tiny phrase?

          • Cawmun Cents


            All-African People’s Revolutionary Party (A-APRP)

            Alliance Marxist-Leninist (North America)

            American Indian Movement – Grand Governing Council (AIM-GGC)

            American Indian Movement – International Federation of Autonomous Chapters (AIM-IFAC)

            Barrio Union (Unión del Barrio)

            Black Radical Congress (BRC)

            Committee for a Unified Independent Party (CUIP)

            Committees of Correspondence for Democracy and Socialism (CCDS)

            Communist Party of the USA (CPUSA)

            Communist Voice Organization

            Democratic Socialists of America (DSA)

            For a Better World

            Freedom Road Socialist Organization [Fight Back] (FRSO)

            Freedom Road Socialist Organization [Freedom Road] (FRSO)

            Freedom Socialist Party (FSP)

            Green Party of the United States, mirror page, other page

            Heatwave Communist-Anarchist Federation (Heatwave CAF)

            Independent Progressive Politics Network (IPPN)

            Industrial Workers of the World (IWW)

            International Socialist Organization (ISO)

            Internationalist Group

            Internationalist Notes, other page, Los Angeles Workers Voice

            Labor Party (LP)

            Labor Standard, mirror page

            Labor’s Militant Voice, mirror page

            League for the Revolutionary Party (LRP)

            League of Revolutionaries for a New America (LRNA)

            Left Green Network

            Left Party

            Left Turn

            Maoist Internationalist Movement (MIM)

            National Black United Front (NBUF)

            New Democracy

            New Liberty Party

            New Party

            New Union Party

            News & Letters Committees

            Organizing Committee for the Program of Permanent Revolution

            Peace and Freedom Party (PFP), periodical Partisan Prairie Fire Organizing Committee (PFOC)

            Progressive Labor Party (PLP), other page

            Progressive ProAction Party

            Revolutionary Communist Party (RCP) periodical Revolutionary Worker

            Revolutionary Workers League (RWL)

            Social Democrats USA (SDUSA)

            Socialist Action

            Socialist Alternative

            Socialist Equality Party (SEP)

            Socialist Labor Party (SLP)

            Socialist Organizer

            Socialist Party USA (SPUSA)

            Socialist Workers Organization (SWO) periodical Socialist Viewpoint

            Socialist Workers’ Party (SWP) periodical Militant Solidarity, mirror page

            The Greens/Green Party USA, mirror page

            United People’s Party (La Raza Unida Party)

            United States Pacifist Party (USPP)

            Unity Organizing Committee (UOC) unofficial page

            US Marxist-Leninist Organization (USMLO) periodical Voice of Revolution

            Vermont Progressive Party

            Workers Democracy Network

            Workers International League (WIL), youth organization

            Workers Party U.S.A.

            Workers Solidarity Alliance (WSA)

            Workers World Party (WWP)

            Working Families Party (WFP)

            World Socialist Party of the United States (WSPUS)

            These Commie trash are collaborating with America’s enemies and are a threat to the Republic. I linked to a more in depth page containing all Commie parties, their publications, and even the names of old Commie groups for historical purposes.

          • Cawmun Cents

            The above list I got from the list of socialist organizations in America.Become aware…..


    Yea, just like the world is melting from global warming. When are they going to get a life and quit harrassing anyone that doesn’t go along with their BS.

    • Jovianus

      Actually…if you wanted to know instead of believing lies…you’d know your comment displays total ignorance of environmental sciences

      • TIME

        There is ZERO proof of any “man made Global warming”

        Thus perhaps a review of the facts may be in order for you, as well you may wish to review your statment; {to stop believeing total Bull Sh^t} from persons who will profit in the Trillions per year if such laws are passed.

        But hey why let the truth get in the way of a great BS story.

        • skip

          Here is what I say about global warming: for one reason or another, it is happening, and we ought to do what we can to stop it, and if that means cutting down on what we contribute in addition to the “normal cycles” that some suggest, which essentially wiped out a lot of what was there then, we ought to get on with it.

          Having said that, the wlidfires now destroying Texas ought to be allowed to go forward, with no federal intervention or declaration of a federal state of emergency, or spending any of my particular tax dollars. Governor Perry essentially told the federal government to keep the hell out of Texas, and I concur – it is a big enough state to secede and it should. Burn baby, burn is the slogan of the day down there!

          • Jovianus

            Well Skip…I wouldn’t go that far…maybe, but not quite. I think Perry and the TPers in Texas should get those wealthy folks who are so benevolent as the trckle down theorists say they are…and pay the Fed Gov’t for the work to be done. Pay beforehand of course as we shouldn’t run a deficit at any time.

            I men FEMA and fighting fires are a part of descretionary spending right? And under ‘strict Constitutionalist” theory…burn baby burn is the motto to adhere to.

        • Jovianus

          Time…nice comeback. you used my words against me…shows you do learn.

          Here’s my question…

          Given that the procedures being mandated to slow the emissions of Greenhouse gases in the air carry other benefits in re; health etc.

          If the “anti Global Warnming” people are correct and the “Global warming’ folks are wrong … all we’ve done is force moedernization of manufacturing to help in having a cleaner environment. But what is the result if the “anti gloabl warming’ folks are wrong and we don’t act now?

          Think about that. What if you’re wrong?

          • Steve

            It would be one thing if our economy was doing well and if other countries were all in agreement to abide by the same standards but as you all know that is not the case….the global warming fraud that has been propagated by the UN and others is aimed at only the United States to enslave us even more than we are already through more taxes, fees and regulations, all to benifit who? Poor people in Africa?…If you believe that then you really are morons…It will line the pockets of your hero Al Gore and his cronies…Then we will have to hear all you usefull idiot liberals complaining that your electric bill is really high now…

      • JC

        Jovianus says:
        April 25, 2011 at 9:45 am
        Actually…if you wanted to know instead of believing lies…you’d know your comment displays total ignorance of environmental sciences

        There is NO proof of any such thing. Only a self congratulatory consensus from the IPCC that they would not come out to debate…because they can’t back it up.
        It’s an outright lie designed to give government more power to control and tax…and that is all.

        • Jovianus

          JC…what if you’re wrong?

          If you are correct…no harm, no ful…a cleaner environemnt is the result. But what if you’re wrong?

          • GRusling

            He’s not wrong, you are. Carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is not and never has been a “contaminate.” The fact that you seem to think it is PROVES you know nothing at all about our biosphere and the “greenhouse effect” that makes this planet liveable. NOTHING in science supports the contention that “man made global warming” exists at all! It’s simply a “theory” and one that has no scientific basis, except in “Political” science…

          • Jovianus

            GR…nice to know you have such finality about Global Warming. Unfortunately for you though…I don’t trust your ‘word” as a final say so. But then, you’ve always been right about it all along…in everything. You’ve never ever made a mistake. Jeesh … what a complete and utter idiotic statement you’ve made.

      • 45caliber


        Denying global warming is a denial of science? Ah … I think you should look up the definition of science.

        The only people who push global warming are those trying to make a buck out of it. There is far too much evidence that it is faked.

      • South Texan

        To get your facts straight, we / humans are causing an 8% increase in global warming. If we do everything perfectly in the future, we can mitigate 8%. That’s it!! The last volcano caused more global warming every hour than we / humans cause in a day. The fires in the rain forest (land clearing to grow food) are causing more global warming than anything we in the US can even think about mitigating. Go stop them! So that everybody understands, if you have $1 and you give me $.08, did I have any real affect on your buying candy? 8% doesn’t matter!! Why are you chargeing me millions of dollars to stop something that won’t make any difference? Because the Libs own the businesses that are making money off of this!

  • Raggs

    Stupid crap!

    If you shoot a deer with lead it is just as dead if you shoot it with a silver bullet, it has no idea what it was shot with.
    And the last that I checked fish do not eat lead weights…

    • wandamurline

      The lakes in this country have so much mercury in them that a little lead is not going to make a difference. Lake Rayburn in East Texas is so full of mercury that you can only eat 8 oz. a MONTH of the fish you catch. Shot gun rounds were lead banned years ago, but I guess bullets were not. Besides, you shouldn’t be wounding deer…if you can’t shoot good enough to take it down, don’t be in the woods hunting.

      • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry


        In 20 years they will probably discover that the lead absorbs the merucury and rendurs it inert. They will then mandate that all ammunition contain lead, but by then all the lead mines will have shut down and we will have to import it from the then #1 nation on earth – China.

        • WayneT

          If Congress is against mercury, why are they forcing us to buy the CFL lightbulbs from China begining in 2014. These light bulbs have mercury in them, and Congress are forcing us to buy them. Look at how many people this will put out of work. Remember, this was a Democratic Congress that passed this law back in 2007. See this website: and be sure to send it on to everyone in you address book. We have to get the word out how the Democrats are running this country. I am sure a lot of people do not know abut this. Please, let’s e-mail everyone this website over and over again to show them how the Democrats are ruining this country.

          • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry


            The 2007 liberal congress forced the CFLs on us because, as usual, lberals know what is best for EVERYONE.

            Remember, the democrap congress passed the bill, BUT it was that idiot Bush who signed it into law. It is paret and parcle of the NWO to bring down our nation – and Bush and his old man are hip deep in the NWO.

          • 45caliber

            Old Henry:

            I think the real problem with CFMs (and a host of other things) is that the liberals are hunting for any way possible to gain further control over people. If some group (preferably of liberal intent) says that something is bad for you and something else is good, the libs in Washington will jump all over it without a single thought as to whether it is true or not. Truth does not necessarily give them power – new laws do. And if a law is passed due to a lie, it doesn’t matter since the law will remain around.

            Actually, since all revolt (and government reform pressure) comes from the middle class, I’m firmly convinced they are determined to eliminate the middle class be taking all our money for taxes or requiring us to purchase expensive things like these new light bulbs. And if it kills us, who cares?

    • Steve

      LOL great comment Raggs…fish DO NOT eat the weights….

      • WayneT

        Old Henry, you are right, Bush screwed up when he signed this bill. I blame the Democrats more than Bush though. It is possible without the line item veto that the Dumocrats may have stuck a lot of things in that bill that Bush may have not wanted, but in order to get what he wanted, or needed, he may have had to sign the bill. This is the way Congress operates, and this is why they do not want the line item veto, which I feel we need.

        • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry


          I do not trust Bush. Foolishly, I did in 2000. I 2004 I had VERY serious reservations, but what other choice? The facsist Patriot Act was the clincher and told me that Bush, amd most of the GOP, were anti-America and working behind the curtain with the democraps / NWO scum.

          If Bushy had truly been against selling out American jobs to China via the light bulb bull shit he would have vetoed the bill and told the nation why.

          I never trusted his Skull & Bones scum old man and almost voted against Reagan because of his veep choice.

          As stated here many times by more astute foks than I – neither party is worth a flying you-know-what anymore.

      • 45caliber


        Do YOU eat the weights? I don’t. And fish know what is good to eat too although you can fool them sometimes.

    • Jovianus

      Raggs..exactly. So what’s the beef about having ammo with a cleaner metallic product?

      • Raggs

        That is just yet another control method from an out of control power hungry government. Not to mention it will be very expensive to produce ammunition and very costly to purchase it. Exactly what obama and hilary want to happen in order to finally disarm the US.

        • Jovianus

          Raggs..before you make yourself out to be a complete uninformed person..go Google non-lead ammo. That’s gonna break the hunters ? Seriously? From what I saw as price differential…it was $1.35-$5.00 price difference depending upon the ammo desired. Criminey….the average ‘hunter’ would save ten times that amount if they’d hunt instead of looking for an easy kill.

          • Dan az

            Why is it that lead has been used since the beginning?Was it because it was soft?Steel on the other hand is hard.Imagine that!So you suggest that we all shoot steel through our barrels rather than lead. Why you ask.Well anus the hole point is to not damage the barrel Dummy.But you already new that right?You just wanted to see if any one knew that huh!Oh and that was a good one about the sinkers to,we would have never guessed that they would rust you were just testing us again huh!Gee wizz Im sure gad your here we would have never figured out that one!

          • JeffH

            jovi, as with all of you liberal immoralists, what’s a few more bucks? I guess that is how you “justify” lead free ammo over lead ammo.

            When we see SoS Hillary Clinton stating that she will sign onto the International Small Arms Treaty to ban all small arms and ammunition world-wide, Obama considering an Executive Order to do away with private ownership of arms, the BATFE banning the importation for the Civilian Marksmanship Program of 800,000 M1 Garands left in Korea in ’54 and a new shotgun that meets currently allowed specs, and the BATFE engaging in illegal “straw man” purchases of arms from legitimate gun dealers — arms that ended up in the hands of Drug Cartels in Mexico and some of which then were found after a border incursion at the murder scene of a Border Patrol Agent in Arizona — well, let’s just say we don’t have to wait until the bulldog bites us in the a*s to know we’re under an attack on our right to keep and bear arms.

  • Thinkbug

    It is rather simple. They hate your freedom. The self-defined elite knows best.

    • Ret

      Geez, I hate to be an extremist who sees a conspiracy around any corner, but I can’t help it. It’s ok for bottom feeders in the name of God, oh oops sorry, I meant to say government, to molest little girls and boys at airports, with full knowledge of their parents, to share pix of naked people and snicker about them, to go through our clothes, personal items with dirty gloves, to fill us, from infancy, full of mercury with thimerosal, feed us only GMO products from Monsanto, blah, blah, blah, and the a$$ holes are worried about a few slugs in nature? If it doesn’t make sense, EXCEPT as a conspiracy theory, please tell me what does. How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time, and the elephants are letting the donkeys do it.

      • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

        a few slugs in nature….

        And a whole (hole) lot of slugs in DC……

        • 45caliber

          Slimy ones too.

      • http://personallibertydigest mick c

        Has a good start with GMO and such things, look what the FDA is feeding the people in poison medication. Fluoride in water toothpaste and other things. How about high fructose. Look into a web sight (NVIC) this will give you a good look at our government.

        • Ret

          It never stops, does it. When it’s all gone, what are they going to have? Do they actually think the BRIC countries give a rats a$$ about them? Their greed and power ploys have obliterated their basic ability of rational discrimination. How long will it take for the other countries to nationalize everything, freeze their bank accounts. All for nothing. They’ll be on the bread line with the rest of us, and no place to hide. The head muslim will probably be pushing up flowers, depending on which sect is the strongest. Just look at history.

      • skip

        No doubt about it – your an extremist and rather extremely paranoid.

        • Ret

          Time will tell

  • SteveB

    The only lead we need to get out is the lead in our congressmen’s butts to get our country moving again.

    • Ken

      Well putttttttttt!!!!!!

  • Munday/TX

    my question is: why is this an issue in the first place. Common sense has left the building!!!!!

  • Riccardo Salani

    Considering the fact that lead is a metal that gets extracted from the ground, what’s the deal with environmentalists if it gets put back in the ground by firing some shots or loosing a few lures in the water. It is getting recycled back into earth’s crust.
    To the environmentalists: Stop looking for problems where there are none!!

  • Bear

    There will always be “activist” of one sort or another and they will always be pushing some agenda that they think makes good sense. The idea that lead, shot from a gun or attached to a fishing line, is poisoning our environment makes no sense at all. First of all, where does lead come from? It comes from “mother earth.” Besides the deposits found naturally in the ground, it is a by-product from the production of gasoline. Huge settling tanks have to be regularly chipped and cleaned by workers with sttel bars to remove the lead deposits and this lead is sold to industies that use lead in their products. Lead, of course, is toxic and if one ingests it in large enough quantities, it can cause death. BUT, with over 200 years of hunters and fishermen using lead for sporting purposes, the numbers of all types of game animals, birds and fish have actually increased within the United States. This is due to game management through State regulated departments which require the sportsmen and women to purchase licenses and the funds from these license pay for the programs which have caused the wildlife populations to increase. NEVER, NEVER, has there been a single program designed nor created by any anti-gun, anti-hunting nor anti-fishing activist’s group that has benefited any species of animal, bird or fish on this entire planet. These groups only accomplish one thing and that is to make waves in what should be the normal, peaceful lives of individuals who are not harming anything or anyone.

    • rufus

      What!!!!! Government programs that actually worked? No frekin way.

      • 45caliber

        Some work part of the time – by taxpayer consent. Many do not work in spite of the taxpayer.

    • 45caliber

      If you swallow anything in large enough quantities it will kill you. Even food. Even water. Anything. Lead is not any different.

      Actually, though, if you swallow lead as a chunk it won’t kill you as long as you don’t swallow a lump large enough to block your tract somewhere. It will just slide through …

      Now if it comes without swallowing at enough velocity, it might cause some problems.

  • louie

    We ain’t gonna get anything done fellows (accomplished) by talking it to death…we gonna have to kick some BUTT…I’m ready, lets go!!!

    • Ret

      I’m kinda old and kinda crippled with arthritis, but willing to sign up and kick as much butt as possible. However, the major butts that need to be kicked are like the puppeteers, hidden behind the screen. Let’s tear that screen down and get some real action.

  • James

    Isn’t banning lead in ammunition a violation of the Second Amendment? Doesn’t that infringe on the right to bear arms?

    • Ret

      Constitution? 2nd Amendment? What’s that. Does it still exist?

      • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry


        I’m guessing Litle Barry will remove the original from the Smithsonian in late January of 2013 and burn it along with as many Holy Bibles as he can confiscate.

        • rufus

          It is not house at the Smithsonian. I believe burning bibles is protect by the first.

          • 45caliber

            Nope, they aren’t protected by the First Amendment. I hope that isn’t a shock to you.

    • rufus


  • http://bendbroadband ray

    This just another way to disarm American’s.
    Our Gov. is set on braking the USA. in order to force us all to join there ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT just as simple as that.
    We must replace all of our gov. personal as they don’t know when to stop spending.
    We must get new people that have run there own business for at least 10 years, No attornes at all, they can hire them as needed to be sure what they do is legal.
    There is no use paying out more tax’s to the same people as they won’t change .

  • 2WarAbnVet

    NSSF: “There is no scientific evidence proving that traditional ammunition is harming wildlife populations or their habitats.”

    EPA: ” Evidence, we don’t need no steenkin’ evidence.”

  • Raggs

    Next they will want to ban fishing line because some fish get trapped in broken line.. They will also want to ban boats because some fish get cut up by the propellers..

    • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

      However, it’s okay tokill birds with wind turbine blades…

  • JR

    We need a leader with the cajones to declare that George Soros is an enemy of the state, with all that entails; lengthy imprisonment followed by deportation if he lives that long and confiscation of his assets. That would go a long way toward curing government insolvency

    Any member of congress or the presidents cabinet and the president, should be impeached for violating their oath of office, if proposed legislation or attempts to make policy decisions that are contrary to provisions of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Any government employee that tries to implement any policy that is not specifically allowed by the Constitution and legislated by congress should be terminated and permanently debarred from government employment.

    • rufus

      Sounds like totalitarianism to me. You going to fire all those letter carriers delivering the social security checks?

  • nick beck

    attack soros by a boycott against ANY company he has an interest in same for the clintons, pelouseys etc. sell stock in any soros held company and buy the same in a competing company. if your old and or diagnosed with a deadly disease than go hunt him down and have a serious talk with the bast.

    • WayneT

      Nick, we need to find out what companies he is invested in so we can boycott this maniac.

      • Jovianus

        Criminey…here we go with the “Soros conspiracy’ again. Let me ask you this…if George Soros is the all encompassing eveil, he must have every gadzillionaire in the world under his thumb as well since they aren’t doing anything to stop his world domination.

        Criminey….you guys really don’t think do you …

        • JeffH

          There is a fine line between “conspiracy theory promoters” and the proverbial ostrich with its head in the sand (his posture is perfect for what is about to happen to him).

        • Dan az

          So anus
          Who pulls the strings of old george sorass.Do you care?

          • Al Sieber

            I couldn’t have said it better.

  • WayneT

    We need to disarm the EPA. They are the enemy of the people. Of course this is Obama’s favorite group. They can implement all their nasty rules on us without any intervention from Congress. Get rid of Obama and rein in this outlaw group.

    • JC

      Yep…just another of the Big Brother Alphabet gangs.

    • rufus

      Yes, bring back the pollution. Dirty air! Dirty water! Poison the kids with lead!

      • WayneT

        Rufus, you just don’t get it, do you? I would rather have people have jobs so they can feed their family than worry about a little dirt in the air. The Good Lord put all these compounds on earth for mankind to use. If we are too stupid to use it, then we should, or people like you, should suffer. I think this EPA is a shame and it should be disbanded just like we are going to do to Obama in 2012.

        • rufus

          You do not get it. What good is it your if your poisoning your family? Remember love cannel. Remember W.R. Grace? Remember the burning rivers? Business pollutes to make hire profits. How about black lung? I could on and on. This not left or right. It is about your health Your kids health. You do not see any of the wall street overlords living anywhere near power plants or factories. God has nothing to do with is. There are plenty of natural occurring substances that will kill you.

          • 45caliber


            You are certainly right – there are a lot of natural occurring things that will kill you.

            Did you know that if you took all the caffine from one cup of coffee and injected it into your arm that you would die in minutes? Did you know there are two things in eggs that will kill you if you eat at least two hundred dozen at a time? Did you know that bacon, juice, toast, and other such things have things in that that is poisonous? I would say that all such things should be eliminated from our diet.

            In fact, it would be hard to find anything that didn’t contain somethign that would harm you. I’m sure you put salt on your food. Did you know that salt (sodium chloride) is poisonous? In fact, if you split it, chlorine is very poisonous while sodium would probably blow you apart if you managed to swallow some of it if it didn’t poison you first.

            I would much prefer some dirt around than a pristine atmosphere and everyone starving as a result. One thing you should remember: MAN IS PART OF THE ENVIRONMENT. You can’t seperate the two.

          • 45caliber


            The US is the cleanest country on earth, at least in the cities. (If you go to some remote area it might be cleaner than our cities but not much.) If you don’t like our “pollution” here, go somewhere else and try it for awhile. It will make you thankful to get home again.

          • libertytrain

            Unless it’s changed a great deal re your comment: “The US is the cleanest country on earth, at least in the cities.”

            I’m fairly certain German cities are about as clean as they get.

      • WayneT

        Hey Rufus, why don’t you write and complain to your stupid Democratic Representative for passing that stupid law that Congress passed in 2007 concerning CFL light bulbs that will be made in China which has mercury in it. You had better go up and find that link I posted that explains this bill. Were you too lazy to click on that link, and read it, or do you want some else do it for you? This is going to put a lot of people out of work, 1800 GE employees in Virginia, plus put poison in our land fills. Here, I will post it again for you: Just make sure you watch it.

        • Jovianus

          Wayne…those CFL bulbs are already being adapted to eliminate the mercury. And thus, China is out of the picture since they won’t be able to gear up for that changeover.

          Go ahead and google CFL bulbs made in USA. Guess what? There are literally hundreds of smaller companies steppng into the void. And I’ll venture GE is as well…but not in an outdated factory in NC.

          What is wrong with progress? What is wrong with clean air, water, soil? Just what in the hel* is wrong with you folks that you are hell bent on becoming a Third World Country ????

          • WayneT

            I see you think you have all the answers, Jovi. The statements you are making does not justify a response. Keep on dreaming and keep on paying those high gasoline prices. Enjoy the inflation that Obama’s policies set in action with all those bail outs, and the QE they passed. Maybe you have enough money to keep up with all the inflation, or maybe your benefiting in some way.

          • independant thinker

            “Wayne…those CFL bulbs are already being adapted to eliminate the mercury.”

            Provide proof. EVERY article I have seen on CFL bulbs including articles in such earth friendly magazines as Mother Earth News says the Mercury in CFLs is a concern and say NOTHING about their being any alternative method of making CFLs.

          • 45caliber


            I simply can’t understand your thinking. Giving up incadecent bulbs will make the environment cleaner while throwing mercury filled bulbs in the dump won’t contaminate things worse? And they are working something other than mercury. What? I’ve not heard of anything that will work at all, much less as well. They may be working on it but it is a dead secret as far as I can tell. I’m working on a way to create world peace. Please hold your breath until I finish …

        • Rufus

          Sorry, I am rep by the tea party. I believe your president bush sign it into law. Yes, I going believe some rep from Texas who is a shrill for oil industry. If your argument is based on some oil company hack, good luck. I watched your video.

    • 45caliber

      WayneT says:
      April 25, 2011 at 10:45 am
      We need to disarm the EPA. They are the enemy of the people. Of course this is Obama’s favorite group. They can implement all their nasty rules on us without any intervention from Congress. Get rid of Obama and rein in this outlaw group.

      Most agencies in Washington have been allowed to write their “regulations” so they can control anything you do. They call their acts “regulations” since only Congress is supposed to make Federal law but try breaking one of those regulations and see what happens.

      The EPA is only one of them. Look at BATF, for instance. They want to “regulate” shotguns now to make us safer. They weren’t given that job by anyone but they are trying to do it anyway. EPA wants to regulate us too – and will if allowed to get away with it.

  • seedy carriedaway

    let the hunter continue to poison theirselves

    removing lead from the meats of their prey still leaves some lead particles to eat

    • WayneT

      seedy, I can’t pretent to be nice to folks like you. You, and a few others on this forum are a lost cause. I don’t know whether your brains are fried on drugs, or what. I just can’t figure your type out. I have shot, and eaten deer, rabbits, squirrel, ground hogs with lead bullets. and I am 73 years old, and still living. People have shot game for food, with lead bullets, since the pilgrims arrived in this country. If your a Democrat, and he voted for the CFL light bulb bill, take some time away from this forum and write him a nasty letter and tell him that his stupid vote is hurting this countries employment rate.

      • Rufus

        What do want? No independent thinking? Just keep repeating the one true ideology. Have you ever had an original thought? Not one that you just repeat after hearing or reading. After 73 years, you haven’t found out that life is not just black & white but has shades of gray. Take the blinders off, you’ll see more.

        • Dan az

          How old are you?Does your momy know that your using her computer?Seriously I’m amazed at your stupidity and you come here why?

          • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

            Dan az,

            Jeremy is a rather naive kid, but does listen to the truth, but with this feller….. I’m not sure.

          • Dan az

            Old Henry
            Ya I noticed that to.The thing with this one is the intelligent level.
            My guess is public school dumbing down that cant be fix.But as far as Jeremy goes there is hope that he will see the light.

        • WayneT

          You are most likely still wet behind the ears. Remember, experience is still the best teacher. If you don’t believe this, ask your Momma. However, it is also possible you may be a Muslim from Kenya, or in another part of the world.

      • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry


        Have you ever eaten suqirrel brains?

        I used to work with a fella whose grandad lived in KY, I think, and he told me his granpa would eat squirrel brains right from the skull.

        Not sure if it was true, or if he wanted to watch me change color….

  • WayneT

    With gas over $5.00 per gallon in some areas, I just heard on the news that the EPA has blocked Shell Oil company’s permits to drill in Alaska. Do you Liberals still think Obama’s EPA is looking out for you? If you think so, I’ll sell you some land on the moon…

    • Jovianus

      Ummm…two items for ya there Wayne. One is we are producing more oil than ever from domestic sources. I doesn’t jive with what your Controllers are telling you to think, but the data is the data.

      Two… the EPA blocked a permit. Do you know why? As well, how long would it take for that particular field to produce? It ain’t as if we’ll see any of that oil for five-seven years you know.

      The sooner folks stop thinking like Neanderthals and living in the past, the sooner folks begin to support the US moving into the 21st century and setting up for a world without the US buying every drop of oil available (because we don’t need that much to import), the better off this nation will be.

      Criminey….the worst possible policy is to have one continuing us on oil as a primary energy source. Unless, of course, your goal is to destroy this Nation.

      • WayneT

        Back up your statement from a good reliable source, Jovi. You know as well as I do, Obama is against drilling for oil in his country. Of course he will loan Brazil 2.5 billion dollars to drill over there for their off shore over drilling, How would you rationalize this?

        • Rufus

          What is your source? Glen beck?

          • independant thinker

            That bit of information was actually on CBS, NBC, and ABC as well as FOX.

          • Dan az

            Sense you wont provide any proof of anything I will provide this for you while you go ask your mommy how.
            The prediction is that, because of the ongoing crisis and the continued decline of the dollar, oil will go to $150 and then to $200 a barrel before the year is out. When it reaches these levels, Williams says, the plan is to cease purchasing oil from the Middle East and begin extracting it from Gull Island in Alaska’s Prudhoe Bay, from the nearby Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (ANWR) in Alaska, and from the Bakken formation where North Dakota meets Canada.

            In addition, 2 trillion barrels of shale oil lie beneath the Rocky Mountains may be tapped. Such a welcome retaliation to the Arab oil czars will certainly be applauded by the American people, who will be told that it is being done to lower prices at U.S. pumps. However, when such a result never comes and gasoline prices soar to $6 a gallon anyway, the American people will realize, too late again, that the only change made has been in who harvests the vast profits.
            Now follow me here this is what you would call proof and these little blue words are a site just click on it a try to sound out the words and make a sentence.

          • WayneT

            Rufus, Rufus, Rufus, you a lost cause. I think we had better quit discussing these things with you as your getting more dumb with each post you make.

          • WayneT

            And what is your source for even asking such a stupid question? You must be getting your source from from another retard, surely it can’t come from your brain.

      • WayneT

        Jovi, I see what others are saying about the Liberals. You folks can’t rationalize with common sense. I think you just enjoy spreading around false text.

        • WayneT

          Also check out this website in reference to the oil we have in the williston basin: I think these Liberals are all trying to take this country down. How will they survive when the country goes don the tubes?

          • Dan az

            That’s an easy one.They wont!

      • 45caliber


        So if we drill it takes 5-7 years to get that oil to the pumps. So therefore we shouldn’t bother to drill …

        Now that makes a lot of sense. NOT! It’s like saying that if you plant a garden it will take three months (at least) to get any food from it. So you should never plant a garden and starve instead.

        • WayneT

          Jovi, if this is the case then we should have started back 5 or 6 years ago. Your argument does not make any sense. Of course not any of you Liberal folks make any sense when ever you speak. They should have started to drill back in the 70′s when Richard Nixon was in office. We had the same problem back then. If dumbnuts Obama and his hinchmen would only get the hell out of the way, we could have oil pumping within 2 years, or less, according to an oil company executive I heard speaking. Of course he is probably not as smart as you are since you profess to know everything. Yea, right!!!!!! How did you learn so much crap in your life?

          • Dan az

            I have a couple of friends that work for Halliburton and said the same thing.It only takes a couple of years to get it to production.The problem lies with the pipe lines that have been held up.The environmentalist have stop it and until they can over come the stupidity it would have to be trucked.

      • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

        Even IF we are producing more, and I doubt that, it is not enough, especially with the ME unrest. We have enough oil / gas to be energy independent.

        What is the EPA doing blocking ANY drilling? Several years to produce? That is what you people have been saying for decades and by now THOSE wells would have been producing for many, many years.

        Oil is what we have in the here and now to keep our nation running / producing. We need to go for it now.

        If you greenies can come up with a viable alternative do so in the market place. Do not saddle the American public with outrageous gas prices and horendous inflation.

        Grandma and grandpa will have to decide: Do I eat, or do I buy my medication?

        • Dan az

          Old Henry
          Until the PC crap can be stopped there is little that we can do.

  • http://N/A John Ritter

    You guys are wasting your time trying to argue with a Progressive as they are tone deaf and only answer to one master George Soros & Company.. I am looking forward to 2012 if we make that far..

    • Ret

      May not help with all the illegals voting, and the paperless machines that can be rigged in case there aren’t enough illegals to do the job.

      • 45caliber

        That’s my fear. Rig the machines to count the votes as they are input and change enough of a percentage to have their people win regardless of what the people want.

        Reminds me of a vote in Texas years ago. 280 for – 190 against. And there were only about 160 people in the district to vote…

        • Dan az

          Vote as offend as you can get away with!

    • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry


      I am still trying to “figer” out why we have to wait until 2012. The facsist Kenyan should be in Levinworth by now.

      Oh wait, that’s right. We have a Weeper of the House….

    • Cawmun Cents

      Remember the 1970′s when they were trying to push global cooling?What A BUNCH OF MAROONS!They must think Americans who havent been brainwashed in socialist universities will believe most anything.Too bad they are wrong.

  • WayneT

    A lot of the American people do not have an interest in what our corrupt government is doing. They have their heads in the sand, and are too busy with their personal lives. How can you educate people like this?

    • Ret

      We’ve turned into a nation of people more concerned with Snooki, drunken Lohan, drugged Sheen, etc, than their futures. The problem is that they don’t have a personal life, if they did, they’d start to question what is going on.

      • WayneT

        I agree with you, Ret. Of course we have to include Oprah, who supported Obama for the presidency. I will never support this woman by watching her show. People have time to go to their favorite movies, and everything else, but most of them don’t watch what their representatives are doing in Congress. I am afraid we are a lost nation. I don’t know of any way to get people interested in what their government doing. I believe if people were concerned, and knew that Congress passed that stupid law where we have to buy mercury laden CFL lights bulbs from China, they would be concerned and would write their representatives. I know for a fact of (1) company is shutting down this year putting 1800 people out of work. This is just one plant I know about. Liberals, tell me the logic here, what am I missing.

        • 45caliber

          I not only won’t watch her show, I can’t understand why anyone would bother. If their lives are so dull that they can consider this as entertainment, I’m not surprised that they vote Democrat.

    • Raggs


      Thats exactly what obama and his menions want, the people to be stupid and follow him like he is a god..

      I seen a sound bite on Fox a few day’s ago, obama stated that the US is a “social compact”.. I googled what that meant.

      A social compact is that the people give up their rights and freedom in order to have the government rule over them.

      Scary that probably 50% of americans are all for the government ruling them.

      • WayneT

        Raggs, this type of people are wimps. They want the government in their lives from birth to death. They don’t seem to realize that the Conservatives, people who take responsibility for themselves, have to work for the money the government waste on those give away programs. I was just thinking what would people like this do if they were born back in the early 1800′s when everyone had to take responsibility for themselves. I am sick of the Democrats, and these wimps who want to turn this country over to Communism. We know that when people are free, and are able to think on their own, that we all benefit from their hard work. When I think of Thomas Edison, Alexander Bell, Henry Ford, and all the other great inventers of years past, it makes me humble. When some of the people in this current generation want more government control over their lives, it makes it sick to my stomach. These great heros did not have the government interfering in their lives, and look at how much they accomplished, We would not have the things we have today, which we enjoy and take for granted, if it weren’t for these inventers. This is the best way I can explain how I feel about the past, and this current generation.

        • 45caliber


          Many would have turned to lives of crime (just like the modern day welfare recipients do) and the rest would have gotten jobs. But when they are trained from birth to believe that they have the RIGHT to get “free” money from the government if they just vote Democrat, there isn’t a lot to change their minds. A few do – but they are rare.

          • WayneT

            I agree, 45caliber. They are just like fleas living off the host, sucking their blood. A well abled person should be made to work, or go hungry.

      • Jovianus

        Jaysus Raggs … EVERY government is in place under a social compact with its people. Except dictatorships which you seem to want….

        • Cawmun Cents

          suggested reading……​socialists.htm

      • WayneT

        Hopefully, we will change this in 2012, Raggs. I just hope we can get some good Conservative Republicans running for 2012 that we can vote for. We need to get control of both the House and the Senate, and get rid of Communist Obama. Even if we get these idiots out it will take a good Congress years, and years to ever get back where we were. When you pay $5.00 for a galloin of gasoline, you notice your grocery bills going up, up, and up, and the price of your clothing is going up also, you can blame the government. Remember the Federal Debt. You can thank your Congress Member for this debt were in. We are .14,300,000,000,000 and it is steadily rising.

        • Raggs

          Thats right… The fed is the reason for the high gas prices and everything else by printing money to buy-out industries.

          We have to find a canidate to rid ourselves of obama and all of his illegal laws.

    • Antonio

      WAYNE you are right the people are too busy with their lives to worry about the boring government. But there’s a reason for that. The world government creates problems and raises taxes and add more taxes so as to create more financial problems cause they know that the people will have to work more not one job but two some even work three jobs. Thats how you get people down and busy with their lives. Good plan isn’t it? One way to get the people educated would be to open a private school and teach the constitution and real history and what the USA is really supposed to be (a contitutional republic) not a democracy. have a dress code and a manner code (yes sir, no sir) at school. That would be a good start for a new generation. Im not sure as to how to get one started but it would difinitly be a good idea to get kids out of public schools.

      • 45caliber

        I saw a story this weekend that a local school is being sued by the ACLU for getting onto a couple of kids for not standing when they make the Pledge of Allegiance. Apparently the kids were insisting that they weren’t Americans (they are here illegally) and therefore shouldn’t be forced to pledge their loyalty to America.

        And it is American to allow them to not do it, according to the ACLU. So the ACLU wants the school to immediately (they had two days to comply) rewrite their student manuals to spell this out.

        Actually, what we hear unofficially is that the ACLU picked this school because it is small and doesn’t have a lot of excess wealth to set an example.

        • WayneT

          I would not back down from the ACLU if I were the school. This country is going to have to let these people know that we, the people, rule, not the ACLU. This is an outlaw group that is set out to destroy America.

        • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

          The principal should call INS, have the kids and their scum-bag criminal illegal parents picked up and shipped out.

          • 45caliber

            I don’t think they are allowed to call INS by law. It wouldn’t be “fair” to allow the school to report illegals. It would deprive the poor students from getting a good education (at our expense, of course).

      • Rufus

        That way only those who argue with you get to vote. Democracy is a scary thing to ideologically pure. Messy. I guess when talk about freedom, you only mean the select few.

        • Dan az

          Yes Dufus democracy is a scary thing I’m glad we have a republic and only push democracy on other countries that don’t know any better aren’t you?BTW I think its time for your nap!

    • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry


      “How can you educate people like this”?

      It’s known as concentration camps, but by then it’s too little too late as they stand there scratching teir asses raw going Whaa?

  • Raggs

    I’ll bet anything that hillary and her thugocracy is behind this.

  • 45caliber

    This is one bill that I support. It annoyed the devil out of me when Schummer stated once that “it maybe against the Constitution for us to ban guns but we can ban the ammuntion and make the guns useless.”

    • WayneT

      45Caliber, this is another idiot that I don’t understand why the people would vote for him. It just shows it take idiots to vote for idiots.

      • 45caliber

        And they have plenty of them in NYC.

      • Rufus

        Tea Party members know all about that.

        • Dan az

          Yes Dufus they really do know that you idiots would still vote for more idiots.What is that smell is anus there with you?I most of missed that popping sound please go change your diaper!

          • Rufus

            My, my. Must of hit a nerve. That is not very Christian of you. I will do what Jesus would do and turn the other check.

          • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

            Turn the other CHECK? Yep you’re a liberal, at least.

    • http://PersonalLibertyDigest zacker3

      Actually, if we ban Schummer, we’ll be much further ahead!


    There is a lot of government agencies that could stand to be de politicized and defunded and a lot more that could be merged or done away with but this administration is doing it’s best to make government as big and expensive as possible to get control over all economic output…he EPA, NEA and the HSA are three for starters that could be reduced and defunded.

  • http://com i41

    The steel shot wears out the gun barrels way faster. So dumb f–ks can understand, bearing are babbit a lead mixuture to protect the crank shaft from the hammering of the piston connecting rods. Of these same f–ks don’t realize all the lead used in electric motors and power generatorion units. Any sorry short on brain smuck should realize it is another atempt to ruin gun sales by wearing them out faster, and with sales getting harder, WAKE UP PEOPLE! Again how many decades have the marxist/communist socialist democraps have allways supporter putting the government in control of all citizens. All the dumbocrap voters on this site show how stupid and just plain uneducateable they are since the read and watch all the government controlled media.

  • JC

    I’m a machinist. The small screws and fasteners in your watches, computers, car, appliances, radios, stereos, TV’s, cellphones, IPads, etc. are made of leaded steel. There are no good substitutes for the stuff. So by all means, let’s BAN it!

    Our Senators and Congressmen recently mandated even higher levels of alcohol in the gasoline we buy. That further decreased the MPG of our cars, and damages the rubber and plastic seals, diaphrams, tubing, etc. in our older vehicles. I’m going to have to scrap my 24 year old, immaculate condition, 60 MPG motorcycle. Our representatives and senators don’t have to worry about paying for new vehicles or gas, they get it free, courtesy of the taxpayers.

    A 30 something years ago, they banned the efficient R-12 refrigerant used in our auto air conditioners, and the Freon used in aerosol cans. All to save us from the “ozone hole”. It was later proven that the ozone hole is a natural occurence. The law stayed. We use less efficient R-134 refrigerant in our cars, and CO2 in our aerosol cans. Because of that we burn more gasoline, and our aerosol cans go to the dump before the paint and hair spray is emptied. And the CO2 contributes to “global warming”!

    Banning lead shot and bullets is just more infringement of our constitutional right to bear arms. They want to manipulate us and control us.

    We can all go back to riding horses, reading by candlelight, and eating food cooked over dung stoves.

    • Dan az

      Don’t even think about getting rid of the bike.What you need to do is change your jets size increase it by two on your main and on your idle circuit. That should take care of it for now.But what I’m hearing is that we will be running pure alcohol.And we will have to increase the jets by at least four sizes.The problem right now is the evaporation of the alcohol and leaving water behind.Not Good!Just don’t leave the gas in the carb run it dry each time you use it because even my jet drills wont clean the crud that is left behind.

    • WayneT

      We need to find out the specific idiots that are voting yes on these bills, and replace them with some one who has more common sense. The citizens need a strong representative in Congress to keep us abreast to how these idoiots are voting. Is there a list we can obtain that will show us how Congress are voting?

  • MCI

    From what I’ve read, Fluoride is more toxic than Lead and is actually a main ingredient in rat poison.
    But our experts at the EPA allow considerably more Fluoride in our water.
    We’ve had it added to our drinking water, it’s in our toothpaste and it is promoted as “good for us”. Our children ingest this stuff every day but you don’t hear the cries of danger. There is something wrong here and I don’t trust the powers that are suppose to be looking out for us. My point is the alarm seems to go off for OTHER reasons rather than looking out for our safety.

  • Paul

    I used to shoot at Cherry Ridge Rifle range NJ. It was located in a watershed area for New York City. There was lead bullets and shot everywhere and in the ponds and streams on the property. Every year the EPA would test for lead dissolved in the water and every year the same result;: NO LEAD! It’s solubility in neutral water is nil. It actually forms a white oxide coating that seals it in and only a very strong acid will dissolve that. It is a non issue unless you are going to eat something shot with it and then you can check the meat for it with a metal detector and remove the lead before cooking. It obvious that this is a ploy the parasitic elitecrats to ban ammo based on junk science, again.


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