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Law Firm Originally Slated To Defend DOMA Backs Out

April 27, 2011 by  

Law firm originally slated to defend DOMA backs outThe law firm hired by the House of Representatives has withdrawn from its role as a defender of the Federal law banning gay marriage.

King & Spalding of Atlanta announced on April 25 that it would no longer argue for the Constitutionality of the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA) amid pressure from gay rights groups. GOP members of the House hired the firm just last week to defend the law, which was deemed unConstitutional by President Barack Obama’s administration in February.

Attorney Paul D. Clement, the King & Spalding lawyer who was selected to lead the defense, resigned from the firm in response to its withdrawal. He stated that it was the firm’s duty to complete its assignment regardless of DOMA’s unpopularity among certain segments of the population.

“I recognized from the outset that this statute implicates very sensitive issues that prompt strong views on both sides,” Clement wrote in a letter, quoted by The New York Times. “But having undertaken the representation, I believe there is no honorable course for me but to complete it.”

Meanwhile, House Speaker John Boehner has responded to criticism expressed by Representative Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.), who last month blasted the government’s expenses to defend DOMA. In a letter, Boehner said that it is the Department of Justice’s (DOJ) responsibility to fund Congress’ defense of a Federal law.

Considering that the DOJ has been advised by the President to no longer defend DOMA, the government should redirect the funds it would have otherwise used to defend the act to the House’s legal efforts, said Boehner.

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  • Doc Sarvis

    Most sectors of America are growing up and realizing that there is NOTHING wrong with consenting adults loving each other and making a life long commitment – AND having that commitment acknowledged in a legal sense.

    • Munday/TX

      actually there is a lot wrong with it and you cannot see past your own issues. So you say it is wrong to define marriage between a man and a woman and that it should include homosexual relationships, ok, well then what about the man who wants 20 wives and has kids with them and cannot afford to pay for them-kinda like some religions I will not name here. Who pays for that and you cannot say that is not right, according to your thinking, but who pays-you do silly. The family unit is the strength of this country and if we pull DOMA down so will our country go down.

      • Robert Smith

        Hey Munday,

        Arguing to extreme isn’t very logical or practical. Crooks and evil doers will always find a way to loot the system. They don’t need religion to justify 20 wives, they don’t need to “go forth and multiply” to justify kids.

        How does the marriage of any two other people (of any sex, religion, etc.) impact your life? Just what is ‘torn down?”

        BTW, your religion doesn’t count. There will be no state religion.

        Rob

        • Bob from Calif.

          Its the slippery slope that I am worried about Robert. Later on they will be telling you what to think or else. In some places this is already happening.

          • Cawmun Cents

            no Bob.Later on the Muslims will be telling you what to think,right before they saw your head of with a rusty butterknife.That is after of course you have eliminated the Christians…….

          • Robert Smith

            Slipery slope arguments have proven to be false.

            Rob

        • http://naver samurai

          Wrong answer moron. This freakish lifestyle helps to destroy family values and attempts to replace it with false doctrines and opens the door more to the secular humanistic beliefs. This is a combination of liberalism and atheism. They will never be an accepted way of marriage, so they should just get over it.

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qre8bfz4drA&feature=related

          Wrong again moron! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            What are you so afraid of samurai? Isn’t your religion strong enough for you to keep it without converting everyone to your beliefs?

            If you don’t want to change don’t change. It shouldn’t make any difference if a gay couple marries, if a muslum sneezes, or if the local cop doesn’t believe in your brutal god.

            Chill out and live and let live. That is freedom in America. To deny that isn’t American.

            Rob

          • http://naver samurai

            Sorry moron, but I’m not affraid of these “people.” I’ve been wounded twice for this country, so I’m not affraid of homosexuals. I know that if they have their way, forcing their lifestyle on people who don’t believe in it or want it, this will destroy traditional family values. Sorry moron, but I don’t want this nation to end up like Sodom and Gomorrah. You, on the other hand, are a coward and traitor who has been trying to get people to believe in this secular humanist nonsense. You are right about America being a free nation, but you greatly err about how we can do anything we want. Remember, with freedoms and choices comes responsibility. Responsibility is the word you seem to be affraid of and do not believe in. It’s people like you that give this great country a bad name. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

            P.S. Did you at least watch the video that I posted? Probably not. Just wanted to make some fool comment on this site.

      • Smilee

        IT is not unconstitutional if you define marriage as between two people unless you discriminate by denying it to any gender combination. Why is it you read into it all these stupid claims of absurdity, marriage I believe is limited in all states to two people, the majority define it as between a man and a woman and the question is, does this violate the fourteenth amendment of the constitution in that discriminates against same gender marriages as the constitution does not define marriage but does define discrimination and that is the question and the reason the Obama administration would not defend this law is because it is not clear and that it wants the SC to decide that issue before it will defend it. That appears reasonable seeing as the issue is not clear.

        • Jay

          smilee says: IT is not unconstitutional if you define marriage as between two people.

          Hey dumb dumb, marriage is not presently defined as being between two people, marriage is presently defined as being between a man and a woman, you silly numbskull!

          • Robert Smith

            Why all the name calling Jay? You are beginning to rant like samurai.

            Rob

          • http://naver samurai

            Sorry rob, but Jay just calls them as he sees them. You, on the other hand, always want to be the middle man in a circle j***. Get off of the kool aid. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

        • Jay

          The issue is obviously not clear to you! We try very hard to clarify it for you but you seem impervious to logic! Oh well, we tried.

          • Mushin

            Don’t bother arguing with Smilee, he’s well known here for drinking thick, milky fluids.

          • Robert Smith

            “fluids”

            Now there is an interesting “argument.”

            Why not base your argument on rights in a free America?

            Rob

          • http://naver samurai

            Sorry rob, but your statement doesn’t hold water. No one has taken any God given rights from them, but since being gay is a behavior it is not covered under the Constitution. Ergo, marriage isn’t a constitutional right. It is to be between a man and a woman, no other. Must we always go through this with you or are you going to go to rehab for your kool aid addiction? FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            hey samurai, there you go with the typical right wing swift boat name calling.

            Now, about your bible babble not supporting a “gay” lifestyle…

            So what? The drivers’ instruction book doesn’t say anything about a gay lifestyle either.

            No points for you samurai.

            Not just because homosexuality isn’t mentioned favoribly in your hateful bible, but because many people on planet Earth don’t care what your bible says.

            Rob

          • http://naver samurai1966

            Sheesh rob, you moron, don’t you think we say these things about your posts? Still being the traitor, aren’t we? FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • iowaheretic

            Samurai; I can’t find America in the Bible ANYWHERE and I can’t find “God” in the Constitution ANYWHERE. Are you referring to England when you keep saying “FOR GOD AND COUNTRY”? That’s what the British soldiers used to say when they occupied the Colonies until we fought a revolution and the Founding Fathers established a SECULAR GOVERNMENT and COUNTRY! E Pluribus Unum!

          • http://naver samurai1966

            Sorry IH, but you’re wrong, just like the other libs on this site. We were founded a Christian nation and forever will be such. No mention of anything Christian in the Constitution? Are you that blind? The Bill of Rights, first 10 amendments to the Constitution, are all God given rights and only he can take them away. Another falsehood to correct you on is look above where our founding fathers signed. It says “In the Year of Our Lord.” This is a reference to the number of years after the birth of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. So I guess I can say, “Bzzzzz wrong again, morons!”

            “That Book Sir, is the Rock upon which our Republic rests.” Andrew Jackson June 8, 1845.

            “The Bible is the anchor of our liberties.” Ulysses S. Grant.

            “The general principles on which the founders achieved independence were the general pursopses of Christianity.” John Adams.

            “By our form of government, the Christian religion is the established religion.” Samueal Chase, SCOTUS Chief Justice 1803.

            “This nation is a Christian nation.” SCOTUS case Church of the Holy Trinity vs. U. S. 1892.

            “The U. S. Constitution is the Finger of that Almighty Hand which has been so frequently and signally extended to our relief in the critical stages of the revolution.” James Madison.

            “It is impossible to rightly govern a nation without God and the Bible.” George Washington.

            “The Laws of Nature and Nature’s God.”

            “They are endowed by their Creator.”

            “Supreme Judge of the world.”

            “Divine Providence.”

            And so many others. Looks like you go down in defeat, like the rest of the lib morons. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! (The country is the U.S.A.)

        • Cawmun Cents

          Oh contraire Smilee….that which is deviant cannot be considered unless all deviancy is considered.You see its still and always has been about design.Anything contrary to design can be considered deviant.That is not subject to definition.It is a fact.You cannot then abridge one kind of deviancy and not consider another,for that in istself would be discriminatory(a fact that the Supreme Justices are well aware of,which is why they do not wish to touch this.).Dont you homosexuals know that?You make that law which you posted Smilee and you are just like the people you have called discriminatory,and you are then hypocrites of the worst kind.Because if one deviancy is chosen over the others then you are a hypocrute and discriminatory,whehter you consider it fact or not.

          • Robert Smith

            “Anything contrary to design can be considered deviant.”

            Hasn’t that been proven to be a RELIGIOUS point of view in Dover, PA?

            Rob

        • http://naver samurai

          First moron, the 14th Amendment deals with former slaves and their children and not gays. Second, defining a marriage as between a man and a woman is not discrimination. So if a person is of a certain religion (Christian, muslim, hindu, etc) and they only marry someone of their same faith, this isn’t discrimination. If a person only wants to date and marry someone of the same race or nationality, this also isn’t discrimination. It’s something called endogomy. I’ll let you look it up in Webster’s Dictionary. Always the one who doesn’t know the truth, hmmm? You wouldn’t know the truth if it came up from behind you and bit you on your arse! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

    • JIBBS

      I hope that you never quote the bible again.

      • Jay

        He does it all the time JIBBS, he’s an expert in the homosexual bible, apparently the homosexuals published their own unique version!

        • Robert Smith

          Hey Jay,

          Did you know there is a caticism just for slaves? It made them good obidient christians.

          BTW, your bible doesn’t count as a management tool in America. That would be America forming a religion.

          Rob

          • http://naver samurai

            Not true, moron! Just because a president may read the Bible and try to go by it doesn’t mean he’s instituting a religion on the people. Where do you come up with this nonsense? FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            From samurai: “Just because a president may read the Bible and try to go by it ”

            Are you suggesting that is what Obama does?

            Rob

          • http://naver samurai1966

            Sorry rob, good try though. Remember he was busted on a nationwide interview with Chris Mathews saying he was muslim. He may go by the false doctrine of the koran, but he doesn’t go by the Bible. If he was a Christian, why would he cancel the National Day of Prayer? Your post doesn’t hold water again, morn! Try better next time. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            More stuff made up by samurai…

            Rob

          • http://naver samurai

            Still drinking the kool aid, eh moron? We both know that he’s a muslim and not a Christian, so why do you lie about things being made up? Always calling someone a liar, but you never say where or how they are lying. Typical lib and atheist rhetoric. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

    • 45caliber

      I don’t have a problem with anyone loving each other and wanting to make a life-long LEGAL committment.

      What I have a problem with is someone wanting to use that committment to try to change my religion and force me (and particularly my children) to want to follow their way as “normal” instead of mine.

      And that is the STATED goal of many of the gay organizations.

      • get right

        45, who is forcing you to do that?? Please tell us the specifics.

        • Mushin

          I think what 45 is trying to say is that the “Gay Movement” is a powerful one and it’s agenda is a clear one – create an acceptable social environment to their cause.

          The tools are insidious; propaganda, double-talk, the old “your a hate-monger if you don’t like us! (booh-hoo!).

          As 45 stated; keep your attitudes and idea’s to yourself – you have every right to them, just DON’T try pushing them in my face!

          Can you GET THAT?!

          • 45caliber

            You are correct about what I was trying to say. Thanks.

          • Robert Smith

            So they can have equal rights just as long as you dont’t have to see them?

            Rob

          • Bryan Waite

            Rob,
            They (you) already HAVE equal rights! What your attempting to argue is a mute point…..what your attempting to do (and many feminine men do) is create a situation that set’s all gay’s (you included) above that of heterosexuals. You want SPECIAL conditions to your sexuality. You go out into the world and try to push your sexuality onto the rest of us like your a cripple in need of protection! You want to shove your beliefs down the throats of the rest of us like a disease we need to GET.

            YOU are part of a sub-culture, you call us “breeders” like WE ARE THE SICK ONE’S! Being with someone of the opposite sex repulses you, REVOLTS YOU! How do I know this?! I’ve spent a lot of time around “gay” people, I’ve worked with them, dined with them, entertained many conversations with them! Many have confided in me.

            The ultimate goal of (many in) the homosexual community is to create an atmosphere of complete acquiescence to their practices, their lifestyle and their cause….and to indoctrinate the rest of us (and our children) to it.

            You and many other homosexuals like you (I did NOT say ALL) want to demonize heterosexuals as hateful, to paint us in the worst possible light – so you can flaunt yourself in public, you can teach our kid’s that “it’s okay” or worse, encourage this deviant (sick) behavior in the innocent.

            If you come to wonder why others dislike you so Rob take a good look at yourself and your actions. If you lived in RUSSIA or the VIRGIN ISLAND you would quickly find yourself a target! homosexuality is NOT tolerated in those countries…if your caught there, it’s curtains for you!

            You are SO fortunate to be in this country, to have the freedom’s you have and you STILL aren’t happy are you?! You just have to keep demanding your missing “rights!”.

            Most gay men grew up without a father OR had a father present and his mother ruled the household. As a child, that boy never learns what it means to be a man or what it means to be masculine, rather, he gravitates toward the most powerful figure in his life….his mother. Every gay man I ever met or had an intimate conversation with had verified the truth – he never had a masculine figure to imprint with. Nor can they relate easily to one as he grow’s older.

            Being “gay” is NOT inborn, it’s created by conditioning and exposure to chemicals in our environment. Soy formula given to children is EXTREMELY HIGH in estrogen….

            A study in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition showed that when infants are fed soy-based formula, their daily isoflavone exposure may be more than 10 times higher (on a body-weight basis) than the dose that produces hormonal effects in adults who consume non-fermented soy products.

            A New Zealand study shows that a child who is fed soy formula exclusively is exposed to the estrogenic equivalent (again, based on body weight) of five birth control pills per day!

            Researchers say the number of girls sprouting breasts and pubic hair by the ages of 7 or 8 years old has DOUBLED in recent years.

            The latest research links phthalates, a common chemical found in plastics, to abnormal breasts in boys! (Think plastic bottles which leach phalates {BHT} into the milk, juice or water contained in it!}

            Urine samples in a related study revealed high levels of our three most common hormone-like substances: phenols, phthalates and phytoestrogens.

            In a sense, many gay men (possibly women also) are victims of the foods they eat (or have been fed) since their inception! They are being robbed of their freedom and right to raise bear and raise children, not to mention being subject to body-altering substances without their consent.

            Don’t take my word for any of this Rob – check it out yourself. Whatever you do, peace to you. I recognize your rights, don’t step on mine.

            Like it or not, your a man. Stop acting like your less than that. Accept who you are, accept your masculinity. It’s not bad – whats more, you live in a country where you already have the freedom to do whatever you want Rob, but as I mentioned, the majority don’t want to be force-fed your beliefs.

            Take a duckling and bring it up with a dog and it thinks it’s a dog.

          • Robert Smith

            “You and many other homosexuals like you…”

            Quit lying Bryan.

            I’m not gay but I do support them in their struggle for equality.

            I’m not black but I do support them.

            I’m not an American Indian but I support them.

            I’m not a woman but I support their causes.

            Freedom is for ALL Americans. Get used to it.

            Rob

          • http://naver samurai

            Rob, still being the moron, eh? No one is taking away their freedoms, but if you do something that’s illegal, immoral, or unethical, such things are not rights under our Constitution, so get over it you lib, gay loving, baby killing, marxist. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Jay

            Are you are a non-entity, robert?

          • Robert Smith

            Mushiin says: “As 45 stated; keep your attitudes and idea’s to yourself – you have every right to them, just DON’T try pushing them in my face!”

            Yup. All those christians at health care clinics should go home or to their churches. Why should they be allowed to FORCE their religious point of view upon others?

            Rob

        • http://naver samurai

          How about what the military and our kids at school have to go through with these moronic “queer” programs? That should be specific enough for you moron! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            Hey samurai…

            Has our military fallen apart yet? You claimed it would when DADT ended.

            Seems like you’ve lied about that too.

            Rob

          • http://naver samurai

            Just wait, moron! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            Hasn’t fallen yet.

            Oh, do you mean like waiting for blacks to mess up the military? Well samurai, it’s been almost 50 years and we are still the best in the world.

            Why do you make such stuff up?

            Rob

          • http://naver samurai

            Wrong again, moron! There are reports about personnel retiring early or not wanting to re-enlist because of DADT being repealed. That’s how our military will be affected, by loss of strength in manpower. Since you’ve never been in the military, I don’t expect you to understand. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

      • Robert Smith

        45 claims: “And that is the STATED goal of many of the gay organizations.”

        Show us. I don’t believe you. All I’ve seen just want to be left alone.

        Rob

        • http://naver samurai

          Bzzzzz wrong again! If they want to be left alone, then why are they parading, harassing people, and trying to force their immoral lifestyle down our throats? Remember, they were protesting in San Diego about a ban on gay marriage and a lady showed up with a cross and said the same things I’ve been saying. What did they do to her? They broke her cross and practically chased her out of the area. Does this really sound like they want to be left alone? Sounds kind of militant to me and a violation of the woman’s freedom of speech and religion to me. Wrong again moron! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • iowaheretic

            Samuraitard; I’ve never been to any gay marches or protests or gay pride parades. Do you know why? It’s because I’m not gay and they’ve never tried to force anything onto me. But I sure can’t say that about fundamentalist christians! They are the one’s trying to force thier beliefs onto me and everyone else in this country! They are the “MORONS” that keep saying that if you stick up for gay people and thier human rights then you have to turn gay, because they(christians) are so stupid that they think it’s a choice to be gay. I knew that I liked girls since before I went to kindergarten, and I’m sure that gay people knew what they liked too, without anyone having to tell them. How can they help what they are naturally attracted to? It’s just human nature. Did you naturally like girls when you were young or did you have to wait until you were old enough to get married for someone to tell you they read a 2000 year old storybook and it said to go find a woman and keep her barefoot, pregnant, and in the kitchen? And why is it that some of these christian people go to every gay event that they can find and run around with thier stupid little picket signs and bullhorns trying to force thier gospel onto people that don’t want anything to do with it? Gay people aren’t trying to force thier “lifestyle” onto anyone, they just want thier human rights. You don’t see gay people going to church functions with stupid picket signs, do you? I thought everyone was guaranteed the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. It doesn’t say the pursuit of “christian” happiness ONLY! E PLURIBUS UNUM!

          • http://naver samurai1966

            Wrong again IH! Proselytizing isn’t forcing their beliefs onto anyone. Telling how you feel, think, and believe aren’t forcing your beliefs on anyone. Second, the facts I’ve posted are true and cannot be denied. Third, you talk about their rights? As I’ve said before, moron, if they are American citizen then they have the same rights under the U.S. Constitution. I think that if you have a gay pride parade, but there is a group of Christians 50 meters off to the side praying, not bothering anyone, then why to the gays, along with their supporters, shout at them to get lost and even call the police to come and arrest them? Whatever happened to freedom of speech and religion in this country, hmmm? You can’t have it both ways, moron. Why would you use the phrase E Pluribus Unum? Sounds like I have to take a walk by the kang again. Not to smart by using that phrase moron. Your little plan is very transparent. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            iowaheritic says: ” And why is it that some of these christian people go to every gay event that they can find and run around with thier stupid little picket signs and bullhorns trying to force thier gospel onto people that don’t want anything to do with it?”

            Not only that but they will invoke their deity and all HIS power to change you as they prey upon you.

            They really really want you to change if you ain’t like them.

            And YES they do want to FORCE behavior upon you through making laws. Then they gripe about laws Bany Frank wants to make.

            Rob

          • http://naver samurai1966

            Rob, are you still being a moron? The person as IH, I personally know and he is an atheist from California, but now lives in Korea. I’ve worked with the moron before. If it isn’t secular humanist in beliefs or isn’t atheist, he tries what he can to get you fired. The man is no patriot and is nothing but an antagonist. He’s a 38 year old with the mentality of a 18 year old. This is probably why he isn’r married yet. You have to be grown up to get married. At least you have a set of beliefs, off the wall ones, but a set of them nontheless. He doesn’t believe in anything but himself. He’s a bigger moron than you. Though it is your choice who you want to believe. I wish that if you really wanted to improve this country, you would quit being a moron and join in the fight to have our country get back to the ways it was founded. If you don’t like it that they were Christians, well boo hoo. I’ll bet that if our founders were a different religion, you would still say the same things you do now. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            samurai says: ” and a lady showed up with a cross and said the same things I’ve been saying.”

            I’ll presume she was christian.

            As 45 doesn’t want the gays to force their point of view what gave HER the right to try to force the christian point of view?

            Rob

    • http://naver samurai

      Wrong as usual doc! More moronic lib nonsense!

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D529HBoHW1c&feature=related

      You say more people are comming onto their side? I beg to differ. They are encountering more resistance then ever before, due to their freakish lifesryle. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

  • TexasJohn

    Cowards, typical of the lack of character in America today. They took the job, they should be expected to finish the job, whether or not they agreed. Kudos to Paul Clement for having the spine that the rest of the firm obviously lacks. Maybe others will see the caving in to political correctness and take their business elswhere.

    • Robert Smith

      So much for a free market in America where TexasJohn wants clients bonded forever.

      What about being in business so one can serve the clients they want?

      BTW, the AFA tried to organize a boycott against Ford and it didn’t work. Ford marketed to ALL Americans and got to be #1 for it and they didn’t have to take any stimulious money. See, being a true melting pot and carrying no hatred is the true American way.

      Rob

      • Mushin

        Really Rob? Then you can deal with Islam when their representatives come a “knockin’” on your door! America has indeed been a “melting pot” as you say, and America’s traditional values are all that has separated us from the rest of the world.
        Thanks to addle-brained fools like you we’ll all soon end up as another take-it-in-the-ass European nation.

        Marriage has alway’s been a union of man and woman. Anything else is a perversion of nature.

        In 1973 the American Psychiatric Association classified homosexuality as a mental disorder – somehow they mysteriously “changed” the definition, but guess what? It’s still sick and unnatural no matter how you slice it {however, it is a great method of population reduction, as homosexuals don’t breed}.

        And you want to be given the right to marry and raise children in a household that confuses gender roles?! to what end Rob? How will this serve the health and well being of a child?

        If you want to take it in the can in the privacy of your own home, or wear womens clothes like Doc Sarvis thats fine – just keep your privates to yourself as the vast majority of us do not want your socialistic, left wing feminist ideology in our America.

        And if you need proof of social engineering here, do a little research, and you’ll discover what Aaron Russo said has a basis in fact – a land of feminine men are passive in nature….what does this portend, hmmmmm?

        Leave hatred out of this discussion as it’s not about hate, it’s about the mental health and well being of our society and a nation.

        You have every right in our great country to do as you wish so long as your actions don’t cause harm to others – what you propose is and will continue to cause harm everyone in our nation, especially our children.

        We are a tolerant nation, and we are a Christian Nation whom of which a vast majority believes in the union between man and woman as sacred.

        We are NOT a muslim nation of homosexuals. You want to be homosexual? fine. You want to be a practicing muslim? fine. Keep your beliefs to yourself – there’s nothing wrong with our country or it’s Constitution, but there is something wrong if you think you need to change it.

        As Krishnamurti said;
        “It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.”

        • Robert Smith

          Hi Mushin,

          From Mushin: “Then you can deal with Islam when their representatives come a “knockin’” on your door!”

          That’s a silly conclusion. I have no trouble telling them to go away if they have nothing interesting to me.

          “America has indeed been a “melting pot” as you say, and America’s traditional values are all that has separated us from the rest of the world.”

          Actually we had a couple of big oceans that isolated us from many of the world issues while we grew in strength. There has been just as much “immorality” throughout history as now. In fact drugs were legal, prostitution was legal, and abortion was legal for most of our history.

          Mushin says: “Thanks to addle-brained fools like you we’ll all soon end up as another take-it-in-the-ass European nation.”

          Really… Seems to me China and OPEC are what we should be worried about. BTW, abortion is encouraged in China. China is strong and rapidly overtaking America. What should we do?

          “Marriage has alway’s been a union of man and woman. Anything else is a perversion of nature.”

          Marriage in America is a CIVIL contract bringing with it many economic and social advantages. I’m all for a “union” offered by the state equally to all people, including religious folks who also want the blessing of their god in something called marriage. BTW, there are christian organizations who DO offer gay marriage. Check out the efforts of Bishop Shelby Spong. Ohhhhh, right! He isn’t a christian according to you, is he. Oh well.

          “In 1973 the American Psychiatric Association classified homosexuality as a mental disorder – somehow they mysteriously “changed” the definition,”

          Actually it was with great public debate. No mystery about it.

          “but guess what? It’s still sick and unnatural no matter how you slice it”

          So is canabalism. Eat any good saviors lately?

          “{however, it is a great method of population reduction, as homosexuals don’t breed}.”

          Just think of all the women you and I will have to fertalize if all the other men in America go gay! I’m ready, are you?

          “And you want to be given the right to marry and raise children in a household that confuses gender roles?!”

          No confusion among me or gay people. The kids are pretty smart about it too.

          “How will this serve the health and well being of a child?”

          Love in a family is generally good for a child. Gays don’t open the door to their bedroom any more than you do so that is no difference. Kids being made fun of because of who their parents are is just plane hate and easily stopped if hateful folks don’t make an issue of it. Take responsibility for the hate Mushin.

          “If you want to take it in the can in the privacy of your own home,”

          I don’t and fail to understand why you personalize such things.

          “or wear womens clothes like Doc Sarvis thats fine”

          Again, why do you personalize? No matter what I do on the home level I’m absolutely sure it has no impact on your life. Why pay any attention? Is yours so boring?

          “just keep your privates to yourself as the vast majority of us do”

          My “privates” ain’t no place but where they should be.

          “not want your socialistic, left wing feminist ideology in our America.”

          Check out Log Cabin Republicans. Ideology has nothing to do with sexual orientation. And, if you decide to generalize you are by definition lying.

          “And if you need proof of social engineering here, do a little research, and you’ll discover what Aaron Russo said has a basis in fact – a land of feminine men are passive in nature….what does this portend, hmmmmm?”

          Arrpm Risso was all over the map in his assorted fights for freedom. The was particularly irked by the War on Drugs. He and I have that in common. BTW, Geoge Washington wore a long wig. Does that make the start of America feminine? I don’t think so but that’s about the level of your weak argument.

          “Leave hatred out of this discussion as it’s not about hate,”

          Sure is. What ealse can motivitate someone to deny the love of two people? It’s the same thing that didn’t allow blacks to marry whites until a relatively short time ago.

          “it’s about the mental health and well being of our society and a nation.”

          America is unhelathy because of the hate being generated by the extreme right on the basis of lies and distractions.

          “You have every right in our great country to do as you wish so long as your actions don’t cause harm to others”

          And how does a loving couple of the same sex harm you, or any other person, in any way? DO NOT use religion because America has made no state religion. That isn’t allowed. Be spicific. Will your coffee curdle? Will you want to mate with a fire place shovel? Just how does it impact YOU?

          “what you propose is and will continue to cause harm everyone in our nation, especially our children.”

          What child has been harmed because gays are in the world? Yes there is abuse. On the basis of abuse I’m sure you will join with me to delete catholic priests from American society. See how silly it is to claim that children are harmed by loving couples? What hurts kids is hate and fear. In some “families” they grow up in terror of going to hell because big brother, oops a god! is watching them. I felt safer with Santa. At least I’d get come coal to heat the house with. That’s far better than eternal flames on my body.

          “We are a tolerant nation,”

          Not really. Not while loving people are denied recognition of their family values. Not while people die from lack of health care.

          “and we are a Christian Nation whom of which a vast majority believes in the union between man and woman as sacred.”

          Coincidently we are a nation of many christians, but we are also a nation with many other religious paths.

          You can make YOUR marriage sacred in the eyes of your religion. Same sex couples should be able to make their marriage also sacred in their own religion. Why should they be deined theirs? You have yours.

          Rob

          • 45caliber

            Robert:

            Thanks for the laugh here. You definately have the makings for a good comediane.

          • Mushin

            Okay Rob.

            Radical Islam has spread throughout Europe like a disease, and you would welcome it here in our country? great. When they “come knockin”, it won’t be to hand you a flyer. Their agenda is clear – you will convert or….well, let’s just say they won’t give you much of a choice. They’re well known in their own country for brutality, violence, killing their women (and ALL non-muslims).

            That’s acceptable to you?

            And you’d invite them here? into your town and home too I suppose?

            Okay.

            “Actually we had a couple of big oceans that isolated us from many of the world issues while we grew in strength. There has been just as much “immorality” throughout history as now. In fact drugs were legal, prostitution was legal, and abortion was legal for most of our history.”

            Yeah, I get your point. So we have “Oceans that isolate us” – I said “seperate” not “isolate”. And there is a GREAT deal that has us from our European friends….Mainly, our Sovereign rights instituted by our Forefathers whom created our wondrous Constitution. And drugs are legally used and abused every day by physicians, abortions continue to be performed and prostitution is legal in Arizona….what’s your point?

            “So is canabalism. Eat any good saviors lately?”

            Same tired old argument brought up by atheists hankering for a fight. Get clear Rob;
            The Eucharist ( /ˈjuːkərɪst/), also called Holy Communion, the Sacrament of the Altar, the Blessed Sacrament, the Lord’s Supper, and other names, is a sacrament or ordinance that Christians celebrate in accordance with the instruction that, according to the New Testament, Jesus gave at his Last Supper to do in his memory what he did when he gave his disciples bread, saying, “This is my body”, and wine, saying, “This is my blood”.[2][3]
            The phrase “the Eucharist” may refer not only to the rite but also to the consecrated bread (leavened or unleavened) and wine or, unfermented grape juice (in some Protestant denominations) or water (in Mormonism), used in the rite,[4] and, in this sense, communicants may speak of “receiving the Eucharist”, as well as “celebrating the Eucharist”. – IT’S SYMBOLISM. Got it?

            “Seems to me China and OPEC are what we should be worried about. BTW, abortion is encouraged in China. China is strong and rapidly overtaking America. What should we do?”

            Well, you tell me – it would be great for starters to have a leader who had some balls and took the lead instead of selling out the citizens of this country for his own and his betters own designs. And who was a Christian and an American citizen instead of a closet muslim. We won’t get anywhere with a political puppet and fakir as our leader.

            “Just think of all the women you and I will have to fertalize if all the other men in America go gay! I’m ready, are you?”

            Yep, thought this one through…..I sure love women and have enjoyed loving a few, but I’m not convinced your into women Rob – being married to one great woman is all I’ll ever need – hence the wedding vow’s I’ve made. From your comment its clear you have no idea what the sacred union between a man and a woman means.

            “No confusion among me or gay people(in reference to confusion of gender). The kids are pretty smart about it too.”

            Oh, really? I’ve witnessed “gay” men believing they were women and a gay women believing to they were men….that’s not confusion?!

            Let me give you a little anatomy lesson….penis – man, vagina – woman! Got it? Sheesh.

            And a “kid” is going to understand the difference? You don’t think this is going to create confusion in a childs mind?! You are some kind of f**cking idiot. You don’t have children either, do you.

            “Arrpm Risso was all over the map in his assorted fights for freedom. The was particularly irked by the War on Drugs. He and I have that in common. BTW, Geoge Washington wore a long wig. Does that make the start of America feminine? I don’t think so but that’s about the level of your weak argument.”

            The war drugs is a farce as you know Rob, however, at least Aaron Russo had the audacity to “fight for freedom” which is more than can be said for you.
            In Washington’s time it was fashionable to wear a wig (as the fashion come from the English), yet that hardly made him less masculine in any way. He was also married to…. Martha Washington.

            “Love in a family is generally good for a child. Gays don’t open the door to their bedroom any more than you do so that is no difference. Kids being made fun of because of who their parents are is just plane hate and easily stopped if hateful folks don’t make an issue of it. Take responsibility for the hate Mushin.”

            Lemme tell you Rob, having a child I concur on this point – love is not “good” it’s absolutely necessary….nor did I ever make “fun” of anyone’s parents, gay or otherwise. I don’t want my child exposed to the perversion you would have be “normal”.

            As I said, there is a difference between the “hate” that you purport is involved in the issue of “Gay Marriage” and the reality….the majority of the people DON’T WANT IT. Can you GET THAT THROUGH YOUR HEAD?

            “I don’t and fail to understand why you personalize such things (In reference to “taking it in the can”.”

            “or wear womens clothes like Doc Sarvis thats fine”

            Yes, I had a little fun at the expense of you and Doc….I apologize to both of you if I hurt your feelings. To be straight about the matter {excuse the pun} you both are entitled to your opinion and I suspect that things will go as they will go regardless of our opinions.

            “What child has been harmed because gays are in the world? Yes there is abuse. On the basis of abuse I’m sure you will join with me to delete catholic priests from American society. See how silly it is to claim that children are harmed by loving couples? What hurts kids is hate and fear. In some “families” they grow up in terror of going to hell because big brother, oops a god! is watching them. I felt safer with Santa. At least I’d get come coal to heat the house with. That’s far better than eternal flames on my body”

            Rob…If somewhere in your childhood you experienced fear as the result of what you were taught, that’s regrettable…should that prevent you from following your faith and belief and a personal relationship with God – tragic.
            A gay has the same rights as any other American in this country – the right to “wed” is nor should it be one, period. If the good Bishop Shelby Spong wants to wed them, good for him.
            Nor should my child or any other be exposed to someone who is obviously confused about his or her sexuality and in their own delusion believe it’s “normal” and therefore expose their delusional ideology on my child.

            Slice it any way you want, paint it pink, purple or plaid, sick thinking only leads to more sickness. If you want to smoke, fine, go have a smoke! smoke till it kills you as long as it doesn’t hurt anyone else! You want to be gay! great! be gay! just keep your personal habit’s to yourself. And DON’T EXPECT EVERYONE ELSE TO HAVE TO LIKE IT.

            It seems to me Rob your a pretty young guy – one whom has a poor understanding of our past (however well educated you think you may be) how our country was created and came into existence and how it’s being dismantled.

            This country was founded on a set of principles and beliefs. Like it or not, Christianity and the Christian idea of God is strongly linked to all the freedom and prosperity we have enjoyed as Americans. The sacred union between man and woman had been at the heart of our entire history.
            Find all the fault you want Rob, you have enjoyed the benefit’s from all the sacrifice our forefathers have made and if you don’t agree with them feel free to voice your opinion – or (on the lighter side,)you could go find some hairy dude and get to it! You live in America baby!

          • 45caliber

            Oops – bad typewriter! Bad! Bad!

            I meant “comedienne”.

          • pete

            Robert,

            Good post ! Not all Christians believe the same way when it comes to the Lord’s last Supper aka Communion, Eucharist etc. The bread and wine represent the Lord’s body and blood – We remember His Last Supper and the significance of why He (Jesus) had to die …

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Hey Rob,
            Killed amny acorns lately??? your brain must be about the same size as those acorns you so fondly speak of!!!

          • Jay

            Just more ranting and ravings from Robert! You like it, WE DON”T! Why are you wasting your precious time here when you could be enjoying your lifestyle as we speak? Go and enjoy your lifestyle!

          • http://naver samurai

            Gee rob, still the moron? If it isn’t illegal drugs, abortion, gays, or some secular humanist thing, it’s always wrong to you. As far as this nation being Christian, look at this:

            http://www.youtube.com?watch?v=w-DzDCe5u3y

            This will probably pee you off, but the truth always ticks off those that have been living lies and in darkness. FOR GOD (not allah) AND COUNTRY!

        • Jay

          Mushin, I’m glad you made that point, that homosexuality is being promoted as a tool to reduce the population! I have believed that for a while now. Also, the state is promoting homosexuality not only because they can’t reproduce and so keep the population from increasing, but also, because aids, that still runs rampant in the gay community and is decimating the homosexuals still, and no cure will be found, naturally, will wipe out even more of the population. Now the media makes no mention of this, the aids epidemic, for fear of discouraging new recruits to the catacombs, or the ovens, so to speak. Additionally, the media is very careful to present the homosexual lifestyle in the best possible and positive light. The issue of legitimating same-sex marriage, is a very useful issue that is used to keep the population divided and distracted, as this issue is not about rights, but about population control! If the courts do change the definition of marriage as between two people regardless of gender combination, and I think that they will, because population reduction is really at the heart of the matter, the gay community, unbeknownst to them, will literally be walking into a holocaust. And the kicker, this genocide, will be sanctioned and protected by law! If Hitler could be brought to life to witness the evil genius behind this genocide, he would know doubt burn with jealousy!!! But what is really insane, is that the homosexuals are screaming and demanding that their right, to be wiped out, must not be withheld from them, because doing so, of course, violates their rights! Evil can only prosper when a population collectively believes in their hearts, that there is no such thing as an Ultimate Reference, but only man! You want a world without God? You’re about to get one!

          • Mushin

            Well Jay, you’ve helped me see the light! I’m all for Gay Marriage! In fact, I’m willing to help pay for the K-Y for the honey moon!

            (Hey Rob, I’ll send you the first tube!)

          • Mushin

            Really though Jay, it’s quite diabolical isn’t it? Ingenious. Social engineering at it’s best. And consider this….Soy-laced foods that promote increased estrogen levels in men, plastic’s laced with BHT (estrogen-mimicking compounds) – Huh! all of a sudden you begin to get the impact on not only boys and men but the growing gay population!

            Combine this with feminism, the feminist fabrication of “the abusive male psyche”, female superiority, male inferiority, etc, and you have quite a recipe!

            Don’t be gay sparky, don’t be gay!

          • Jay

            Yes, they have been quite the busy beavers, busy engineering their own destruction, my beef is that they are going after the innocent and unsuspecting! BTW, I was not aware of the,Soy-laced foods that promote increased estrogen levels in men, plastic’s laced with BHT (estrogen-mimicking compounds). Thank you for bringing that to my attention. I shall do my research. Peace to you Mushin!

          • Jay

            An aproximate of 3 million people die of AIDS every year and an aproximate of 8,500 people die of AIDS Everyday!

            According to an article by the North-South Institute on HIV/AIDS and Development, somewhere between five and six people die per minute from aids.

            Worldwide: UNAIDS estimates that as of December 2000, there were an estimated 36.1 million people living with HIV/AIDS (34.7 million adults and 1.4 million children under 15). Since the epidemic began, an estimated 21.8 million people have died of AIDS (17.5 million adults and 4.3 million children under 15).
            An estimated 5.3 million new HIV infections occurred in 2000. During 2000, HIV- and AIDS-associated illnesses caused deaths of an estimated 3 million people, including 500,000 children under the age of 15.

            In the United States: According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), there are between 800,000 and 900,000 people living with HIV. Through December 2000, a total of 774,467 cases of AIDS have been reported to the CDC; of this number, 448,060 persons (representing 58% of cases) have died.

    • Bob from Calif.

      They should give this to Jay Sekulos firm. They are already fighting this issue.

    • get right

      Texasjohn, you mean like Palin?? She took the job and quit just 18months later, so she could become a millionaire and not be exposed as the second largest socialist state in the union. For every dollar her state sends the feds, they get back $5.76 to be able to pay every citizen $23,000 per year to help with their living expenses. Socialism at it’s finest and your tax dollars pay for that.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        get right,
        Do a little research before opening that pie hole!!! that money the citizens of Alaska get comes from royalties from the oil companies and is only given to the ones that live there year round! Youtry living your little worthless life up there year round dip wad!!!
        As for your Palin ran statement, she quit to keep the state from spending great amounts of money defending her from made up baseless suits by the stupid, idiotic, assenine dems! Which, BTW, she was found innocent of all charges except one misdemeanor!! Let’s put your hero nobummer to the same type of scrutiny and see how HE stands up!!
        Try using your head for something besides keeping your ears apart and your mouth from dropping to the floor!!JERK!!

        • Jay

          JoeH, get right, always seems to get it wrong! He’s just another libertard here for the purpose to exasperate.

        • http://naver samurai

          Good post as always! Keep up the good fight, fellow patriot! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

        • Robert Smith

          Ho Joe!

          Then it was a TACTIC to get Clinton to resign with all those attack lawsuits leveled agianst him and his wife.

          De’ja MOO… We’ve see this bull before and it was the Repugs who taught it to America.

          Rob

          • Robert Smith

            Oops Clinton wasn’t found guilty of any of it.

            Unlike Palun.

            BTW, is her husband still trying to get Alaska out of America so they can join OPEC and screw America?

            Rob

          • http://naver samurai1966

            Bzzzzz wrong answer! First, it may behoove you to learn how to spell. Second, he was found guilty of lying and had to forfiet his license to practice law for 5-6 years, now didn’t he? Get your facts straight before you post! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

  • .50BMG

    If you are detemined to give “marriage” between gays legal status, fine, but don’t call it marriage. It ain’t. If you call it something else, but give it legal status as marriage, maybe it won’t offend normal (no, being homosexual is NOT normal) people so much and the issue will mostly go away. It’s called “compromise”. Problem solved.

    • Jeremy Leochner

      I always wish to comprimise but on this I think it hard in that sense. Afterall a homosexual couple commiting themselves to each other at legal consenting age sounds alot like marriage to me. I figure marriage is about love and devotion and if homosexuals can share that kind of love for each other as many say they can and do I see no reason to define or characterise their unions as anything other than what it appears to be by any logical standard-marriage.

      • Bob from Calif.

        Marriage is an institution created by God if you want to know the history. God said the Homosexuality is an abomination, so I don’t think that he would approve. Anyone that hates the Bible, I would think that they would want to stay away from marriage because of its Biblical background. Marriage is a contract between a man and a woman to become one flesh. This does not occur in Homosexual relationships because God is not involved. If they want to form a union in this country it is legal, so go ahead, but don’t call it marriage.

        • get right

          Bob from ca., so they aren’t asking to be married in the church which involves religion. They are asking to be married legally by the government, which is not a religious enity. Why does that threaten you so much? Are you now going to want to decide which religion should be allowed to marry Christians? What happened to your love of personal freedoms? How does a Gay getting married affect you and your religion?

          • http://?? Joe H.

            get right??
            Then let them get a civil union!!! Give it all the legal bindings of a marriage!! That is all they SAY they are interested in!!! They’re trying to bull$hit the world!!! They want to shove it in the face of the straight people and you and I know it!!! You want to be a poup shute packer, then go ahead, but don’t expect me to look on it favorably!!

          • http://naver samurai

            Sorry there get it wrong, but here are some things that you need to know about the subject (since you are bereft of intelligence):

            Genesis 13:13
            Leviticus 18:22
            Leviticus 20:13
            1 Corinthians 6:9-10
            Romans 1:26-28
            1 Timothy 1:8-11
            Jude 1:7

            If that doesn’t convince you, then how about what Augustus Ceasar said shortly before he was assassinated by these same believing kind of people. You know, the secular humanists. “As goes the family, so goes the Empire.” If you destroy the traditional marriage, values dissapear and the nation begins to rot away from the inside. The loss of their moral ways, family, and unethical leaders lead to Rome’s eventual downfall. Can’t you see that happening now in our country? If you can’t, then you are a real moron! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Cawmun Cents

            you cant be married unless you are the opposite sex…..its a rule of physics,law and nature.

        • Robert Smith

          “Marriage is an institution created by God”

          And why does your religion get first billing in America where there is no state religion?

          Rob

          • http://naver samurai

            Actually moron, the fed can’t do that, but the states have the right to do this. I suggest that you study the Constitution a little better. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

        • Robert Smith

          Posted by Bob: “Marriage is an institution created by God if you want to know the history. ”

          Really? Who married Adam and Eve? AND! When they had kids one of them…

          That explains it!

          What an insestious bunch christians are. All that inbreeding! Now I understand you samurai.

          Rob

          • http://naver samurai

            That post of yours was so moronic it doesn’t even deserve a response. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            But I knew you would come through and respond samurai.

            Rob

          • http://naver samurai1966

            Hey, you know how it is. We just seem to find each other, now don’t we? FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

        • iowaheretic

          Bob from Calif; People were getting married 20,000 years or more BEFORE anyone wrote the “christian bible”. There were also homosexual’s all throughout human history before your Abrahamic god was dreampt up. People in every single country in the world with or without “god” get married. Even in America the Indians were getting married to each other long before christians came along and forced thier christian god on them. Ben Franklin was the first to invent the “common law” marriage. And also, anyone could always go to a Justice of the Peace and get married, making christian clergy and “god” totally irrevelent! And by the way, if you read the old testament you’ll find that you’re “god” NEVER said that marriage was between one man and one woman, since King Soloman had 700 wives AND 300 concubines, all with “god’s” approval!

          • http://naver samurai1966

            Care to cite a source or do you intend to stand on that rhetoric? It is true that Solomon had more than one wife, but the other stuff you have stated is pure lib, gay loving, baby killing, marxist nonsense! How about a question for this lib moron. “What proof and evidence can you provide that prove atheism to be accurate and correct?” I won’t hold my breath, since you’ll never find any true answers to this question. Don’t talk about science as you morons like to use that as a crutch. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • iowaheretic

            Samurai; Sources? Come on now, I know you’re smarter than that! I would have to sit here and keep typing 24 hours a day for 10 years and still not run out of sources to prove that people were getting married all over this world since the beginning of the human race WITHOUT a christian god. Scientists think the human race is 150,000 years old, but there IS documented proof of cultures dating back 20,000 years BCE. Proof of law codes which include marriage laws. Even in the Supreme Court of the United States hangs a depiction of King Hammurabi, stating him to be the “Forefather of Modern Law”. The Code of Hammurabi dates back 1750 BCE. Just get on the internet and look up ANY ancient civilization in any part of the world and you will find they had marriage laws long long before anyone invented the christian god. Thomas Jefferson knew all this stuff about ancient history and so did Thomas Paine. You’ll find it in many of thier writings.
            As for Ben Franklin, I looked him up and found him to be pretty much of a hypocrite! In most of his writings he claimed that people needed organized religion in thier life, but he clarified himself as a Deist and never went to church! He didn’t invent common law marriage, it had been established in England centuries earlier, but that IS the way he married his wife, since he never joined any church. Common law marriage is still recognized in 10 states in America and a few Countries around the world, including Israel. But you still don’t need clergy to get married in America, except in Arizona and Arkansas.
            And as for proving there is no god, no I can’t prove it, and no one has been able to prove there is a god…ever! It is proven that the New Testament is just a compilation of many pagan religions AND Zoroastrianism from centuries preceding christianity, right down to most of the details. Whether you agree with it or not is irrevelant, its just the way it is. Look it all up if you want to. Religions such as Mithras (which is nearly identical to cnristianity), ancient Egyptian religion and Greek and Roman and Mediterranean religions. Parts of all these religions found there way into the christian bible. The Sumerian Epic of Gilgamesh which is identical to the Adam and Eve story predates Hebrew sources by over 1000 years. The list just goes on and on and on, and that’s not even getting into the far eastern religions, more people that have survived on this planet for centuries without your christian god. What makes you think he is the one and only “real” god? When you understand why you don’t believe in the 4000 other gods that have existed in peoples minds, then you’ll understand why I don’t believe in yours!
            And as for being a liberal socialist, that’s a joke! I consider myself a Libertarian and an Objectivist, and nothing or no one will ever change that. E Pluribus Unum (out of many, one) was the motto of the Founding Fathers,(NOT- In God We Trust) and it made America great and the melting pot of the world. Why is everyone on either side (except Libertarians and Objectivists) so bound and determined to change it? Well, as Adolph Hitler would say, “Gott Mit Uns”!

          • http://naver samurai1966

            Come on Chris, I know this not to be true. First, no one knows how old the earth is, so how can they say the ammount of years you posted are factual, it isn’t. Science isn’t exact and most of it are just theories that haven’t been proven, ergo not acceptible in this debate as evidence. Second, 90% of all the science we know now was discovered or made by Christians, so what’s your point? Third, you said before a Christian God? This is just another of the lies you have posted. “In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.” Genesis 1:1. Since he has always been, ergo no one was getting married before He existed. Also, since he created Adam and Eve, how could there be anyone married before them? They were the first people on earth and God made them man and wife. I also said in a prior post that science isn’t relevany to the subject at hand. Science doesn’t even cover a fraction of what goes on with people, the earth, and the universe as a whole. Stop using science as a crutch! Just like a typical atheist to use something that cannot be proven. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Mushin

            You never saw any homosexual American Indian’s Idaho. Homosexuality is a “civilized” mans invention.

      • Jay

        Jeremy, you are partially correct, marriage is, about love and devotion, however it is also about Pro-Creation, as well! This, of course, is not possible, with same-sex couples. Also, not only will they not be able to produce off-springs, but their genealogy will end, or be”cut off”, as a result of their union. Does the statement “cut off” ring a bell, Jeremy?

        • Jeremy Leochner

          The problem Jay for me is I believe if marriage is in any way involved with procreation or rather one should use the term sex as appropriatly as possible then I would think that means it is not sacred. I often hear of the sacredness and holiness of marriage. However I feel marriages sacredness lies not in religion but simply in love and devotion. Provided its of legal consenting age if love is true I feel marriage is possible and regardless of ones religion or any religious context with love marriage is sacred. And if homosexuals have genuine love and wish to marry I see no reason to say no or to call their unions anything other than marrriage. If its love and consenting age I think it marriage.
          Actually no cut off dosen’t ring any bells. Would you remind me Jay.

          • http://naver samurai

            Sorry, but their ways are unnatural and against what God has said marriage is to be. Remember, He is the one who created marriage. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Jeremy Leochner

            With respect Samurai I always believed marriage was sacred to all people not just the religious. That leads me to believe that it is based on love and consent not god.

          • http://naver samurai

            So you don’t remember “…What God has brought together, let no man put assunder…” You don’t remember that part? Sounds like God has something to do with it. Love is the reason to marry someone, the most important reason, but it must be a man and a woman. No substitutes! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

        • Robert Smith

          Jay claims: “you are partially correct, marriage is, about love and devotion, however it is also about Pro-Creation, as well!”

          No it isn’t. If that were true older women wouldn’t be allowed to marry and wounded vets who couldn’t reproduce couldn’t marry.

          Both of those would be a darn shame and unAmerican Jay.

          Marriage is a CIVIL contract. Even atheists can marry. They don’t need your brutal god.

          Rob

          • http://naver samurai

            Can you ever say anything productive on this site and not be a moron? FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            Your argument of if they can’t breed they can’t marry is a lie.

            Rob

          • http://naver samurai1966

            Sorry moron, but a marriage is one man and one woman, no substitutes! Come to Indiana and try to marry someone that is gay. If a person (judge, pastor, priest, etc.) marries two gay people here, they can be arrested and have their license pulled, if they are a judge or some legal official. Just don’t get it, do you moron? Their way of life is unnatural and isn’t acceptable in this country by the majority of the people. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

    • 45caliber

      .50BMG:

      I agree. There is nothing wrong with calling it a “civil union” as is done in some states and give them the same benefits the government does traditional marriages.

      BUT … it doesn’t allow them to try to overturn religion and require everyone to be educated in the story that everyone should look up to them for being different …

      • Jeremy Leochner

        I can respect the argument for civil unions.
        I would say caliber many homosexuals profess themselves to be devoted christians. There was some sort of special on Im not sure maybe it was Oprah recently that specifically dealt with homosexuals who are christians and the issues they face. I only watched a portion of it but it seemed that many felt it entirely possible to be homosexual yet still be a devoted servant of god and be loved by god in return. So I dont see homosexuality or homosexuals trying to marry as overturning religion. I think if they have true love for each other then they are in keeping with the sacred institution of marriage.
        And one final thing its not looking up to people simply for being different rather I feel its choosing not to condemn people simply for being different. If there is any looking up to its simply looking up to their ability to stand up for themselves and what they believe inspite of pressure to change or be silent. I think in everyone there is a certain at least grudging respect for those who stand up for themselves and their beliefs.

        • http://naver samurai

          Wrong again! You can’t be a gay and a Christian at the same time. How can they call themselves Christian, but live in rebellion to the Bible? It doesn’t work that way. It even states that a person that does such acts WILL NOT be allowed in the Kingdom of Heaven. Get your facts straight before you post. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

        • Robert Smith

          From Jeremy: “I only watched a portion of it but it seemed that many felt it entirely possible to be homosexual yet still be a devoted servant of god and be loved by god in return.”

          There are a lot of priests who would agree with that. When they get e-mail privelages in prison maybe you can get their opinions directly.

          Rob

          • http://naver samurai

            I’m sure you probably write them on a daily basis! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

  • http://com i41

    Onumnutts nd his radical perverts must have greased the firm up to get themn to back off for going after the queeers. I notice the fagots alwaysd want freedom to be perverts and say government ofr anyone should make rules on their bewhavior, but it totally fine for the normal people to have to accept and put up ith queers. If the queerswant to be pervers stay in their own space like out away from society, it is nothing but a learned and trained lif style. When kids that tried the queer crap that was taught in schools have gotten out in the real world and have a family, most tell us that it was the schools counsecolers who promoted the alt life styles bildge, and now usually are home schooling or sending their kids to private schools, to aviod the brain washing cirrculm in public schools.

  • Dan

    What a queer thing for them to do.

  • 45caliber

    When the pay for NOT doing a job is more than doing it …

    Besides, the government hasn’t been in favor of marriage and families for about 70 years now. A family works together and the parents want something better for their kids than they had themselves. So they are against the government trying to take over and rule things. Single mothers on welfare, on the other hand, are more than willing to let the government do it if it means they get paid more to sit and home and pump out more kids who will do the same thing.

  • pete

    I guess the pressure was to much for this law firm. If God is against same sex marriage, then the US government is in alot of trouble .

    Look at it logically (if my premises are right) – If the government sanctions what God considers an abomination THEN …..

    Can the Federal Government put God on trial for hate crimes ?

    • Jeremy Leochner

      Thats strange. I was always under the impression the government could only put people on trial for hate crimes or any crimes for that matter.

    • Robert Smith

      “Can the Federal Government put God on trial for hate crimes?”

      Is your god real? Prove it.

      Rob

      • http://naver samurai

        Sorry moron, but we don’t have to prove anything. You are the one that has to prove He doesn’t. I won’t hold my breath since I know you will fail in that attempt. What is your “god” moron? Does he live at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue? FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

      • Pete

        Robert,

        What would prove it to you ?

        Jeremy,

        Could Jesus (God the Son) be put on trial in absentia by the US government ? It seems He is going to “overthrow” all these homosexual loving governments at His second Coming …..

        Isn’t that treason ? and a Hate Crime ?

        Can the US military capture Jesus at his Second Coming and put him on trial ?

        • http://naver samurai

          Too much kool aid and hate on a daily basis! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

    • Jay

      Can the Federal Government put God on trial for hate crimes ? The answer is, no. But God does put the Federal Government or anyone else that engage in hate crimes or the violation of His laws, on trial! Man has no basis or right to judge God, but God has every right to Judge mankind, since it is He who provided and established His Laws!

      • http://naver samurai1966

        100% agree, fellow patriot! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

    • Robert Smith

      Pete asks: “Can the Federal Government put God on trial for hate crimes ?”

      Certainly… If he is real. ;-)

      How’s ’bout all those tornados in the South? Ain’t they “acts of god?” I think the insurance companies should go after him big time. The church as his agent can certainly afford to pay. Well, not so much after paying off those raped kids, but there is still some there.

      Rob

      • http://naver samurai

        I’ll agree that the tornadoes in the South were acts of God, but everything else after that are all lies, inuendo, rhetoric, and Christian bashing. Remember moron, bashing is considered hate speech and is illegal. Take the hint moron! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

        • Robert Smith

          samurai says: “I’ll agree that the tornadoes in the South were acts of God,”

          What a brutal b@st@ad for messing up all those families and killing all those people. What kind of a tantrum did you god have to “punish” so many innoscents?

          “but everything else after that are all lies, inuendo, rhetoric, and Christian bashing.”

          Bzzzz, wrong samurai. The church has spent a ton of money defending raping priests WHO HAVE GONE TO JAIL. They have also spent a ton of money paying the victims they raped. Those are real facts.

          And, they do have some money left for insurance companies if the companies decide to take them to court.

          If your god is so powerful he should be able to prove his reasons valid for all the pain he caused in southern America last week.

          Such a brutal horrible god to do such a thing IMO.

          Rob

          • http://naver samurai1966

            Some priests have gone to jail, I agree. What they did was not right in the Eye’s of God, but this in no way is sanctioned by God. Nor did he send tornadoes just to kill people. How about the atheists that are responsible for the deaths of over 50 million people since 1918? You know, Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Ho Chi Mihn, Hitler, etc? I don’t hear you saying anything bad about them. They must be your heroes, aren’t they moron? I guess you don’t mind the secular humanists, along with morons like you, trying to have a Mao style cultural revolution. Or maybe purges like that of Stalin. 10 million people died in the Ukraine alone from his atheist nonsense. How about Pol POt, who killed 2-3 million of his people by starvation and not follwing his land reclaiming programs? Maybe you like Hitler, who slayed people because they were a different nationality, race, or religion? He killed 6 million Jews and millions of others, because they didn’t fit his political ideology about a super race. You moronic libs must want this to happen again, but here in America. George Washington was right when he said, “It is impossible to rightly govern a nation without God and the Bible.” You libs lose again. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

  • Jay

    Raising Your Family in Sodom

    Although we’ve noticed the steady, pebble-by-pebble crumbling of the family for decades, we’re now watching the landslide. We live in an age where society is no longer content to simply ignore the sanctity of marriage and the family—it attacks it with a vengeance. God’s established order for life has become a threat to this culture’s pursuit of sexual freedom.

    Consider the global range of attacks on the family within the last decade. Back in 2000, Dutch parliament passed the first legislation in history that granted same-sex couples the right to marry. Following the Netherland’s lead were Belgium (2003), Spain (2005), Canada (2005), South Africa (2006), and Norway (2008). Although traditional marriage was challenged much earlier in the U.S. (1993), social conservatives and moral majority leaders quickly enacted protective measures, prompting Congress to adopt same-sex marriage bans nationwide. The bans didn’t last long. Conservative “victories” were short-lived as judges began lifting bans and pushing Congress to amend the constitution. Since 2008, opposition against marriage and the family has intensified in America, taking many unsuspecting Christians by surprise.

    The most recent example happened in California last week. On August 4, elected U.S. District Judge Vaughn Walker, himself a homosexual, carried out his own attack against the family. He used his judicial powers to overturn the will of California’s voters regarding Proposition 8, which proposed an amendment to California’s constitution, defining marriage as a union between a man and a woman. Judge Walker declared Proposition 8 unconstitutional. Period. At this point, Judge Walker has won a temporary victory for the pro-homosexual agenda to redefine the fundamental concept of marriage according to their preferred sin.

    Brace yourself, believer. You’re going to keep seeing this fire-storm of opposition against the family. Soon, many people will consign Christians who uphold a biblical view of marriage and family to the same moral category as white supremacy groups, and they’ll consider any effort to oppose homosexuality as a hate crime. In fact, it won’t be long before this blog post becomes a violation of law, under “hate speech” legislation.

    Take another example: Carrie Prejean, one of the contestants in the 2009 Miss USA pageant, made public statements against same-sex marriage. The media demanded her head on a platter. One of the judges, a homosexual, asked whether she believed every state should legalize same-sex marriage. Prejean responded, “I believe that marriage should be between a man and a woman.” Officials of the pageant immediately expressed outrage and open hostility toward her convictions. Prejean is no model of biblical Christianity, but the hostile reactions to her simple confession is a sample of what’s to come.

    With mounting intensity, society continues to wage war on the traditional, biblical view of the family. Another key player in this war is Hollywood. Whenever Hollywood portrays families in modern films, television dramas, and sitcoms, they nearly always caricature them as a grossly dysfunctional unit. Not only is there a noted absence of any male leadership in most instances, but oftentimes there’s no authority figure present at all, creating a scenario where anything goes. But not only is dad absent, so is mom. She’s either working outside the home, or working on an adulterous relationship. Even the titles of many mainline television programs betray their outrageous content. Programs such as ‘Sex in the City’ and ‘Desperate Housewives’ have turned marital infidelity into a laughing matter. It’s prime-time “entertainment,” and Americans eat it up.

    Such portrayals of the American family were once rare for Hollywood, but now they literally dominate the big-screen. And here’s why: they are accurate reflections of our fallen culture, a culture that systematically undermines love, order, authority, and righteousness.

  • Jay

    Unmasking the “gay” agenda
    By J. Matt Barber

    Balance of Power

    Americans who self-identify as “gay” or lesbian comprise roughly one to three percent of the population. Yet the homosexual movement — led by extremist homosexual pressure groups like the so-called Human Rights Campaign (HRC) — represent, per capita, one of America’s most powerful and well-funded political lobbies. Consider that HRC and the HRC foundation alone have an annual budget in excess of 50 million.

    Through a carefully crafted, decades-old propaganda campaign, homosexual activists have successfully cast homosexuals — many of whom enjoy positions of influence and affluence — as a disadvantaged minority. They have repackaged and sold to the public behaviors which thousands of years of history, every major world religion and uncompromising human biology have long identified as immoral and sexually deviant.

    The Goal

    As with every major political movement, the homosexual lobby is pushing a specific agenda. It is often called the “gay agenda.” At its core is a concerted effort to remove from society all traditional notions of sexual morality and replace them with the post-modern concept of sexual relativism. That is to say, when it comes to sex, there is never right or wrong. All sexual appetites are “equal.” If it feels good, do it.

    Ultimately, the homosexual lobby’s primary objective is to radically redefine our foundational institutions of legitimate marriage and the nuclear family by unraveling God’s natural design for human sexuality. In so doing, they hope to elevate their own spiritual and biological counterfeit and establish a sexually androgynous society wherein natural distinctions between male and female are dissolved.

    This creates cultural and moral anarchy.

    Plan of Attack

    Ironically, sexual relativists are anything but relative. They are quite affirmative in principle. But the principles they foist demand comprehensive acceptance of homosexual conduct — by force of law — through federal edicts such as “hate crimes” legislation, the so-called “Employment Non-Discrimination Act” (ENDA) and by imposing government sanctioned “same-sex marriage.” All such government mandates grant special protected “minority” status to those who define themselves by aberrant sexual preferences and changeable sexual behaviors. These laws put people with traditional values directly in the crosshairs of official government policy.

    Throughout society, homosexual activists demand that homosexual behaviors not only be “tolerated,” but celebrated. (That’s what the euphemistic slogan “celebrate diversity” supposes). They have masked their true political agenda by hijacking the language of the genuine civil rights movement and through the crafty and disingenuous rhetoric of “tolerance” and “diversity.”

    Anyone who believes the Biblical directive that human sexuality is a gift from God, to be shared between man and wife within the bonds of marriage, is branded “homophobic,” “hateful” or “discriminatory.” They are to be silenced by all means possible.

    In Their Own Words

    What you are about to read is just a quick, though disturbing, glance behind the homosexual lobby’s lavender curtain.

    Below are two of the central demands put forth by homosexual activists in their “1972 Gay Rights Platform”:

    •”Repeal all laws governing the age of sexual consent.” (This should send a chill down the spine of any parent. It would legally allow pedophiles, and homosexuals who were so inclined, to access your children and teens for their own predatory sexual gratification — so long as those children “consented” to having sex.)


    •”Repeal all legislative provisions that restrict the sex or number of persons entering into a marriage unit.” (Once marriage is redefined, there can be no logical or ethical objection to any conceivable “marriage” combination, including polygamous “marriages.” By watering down marriage, “gay” activists and like-minded politicos [usually activist judges] remove this foundational institution’s intrinsic value.)

    Here are just a few of the demands the homosexual lobby put forth during the 1987 (Homosexual) “March on Washington”:

    •”The government should provide protection from discrimination based on sexual orientation in employment, public accommodations and education just as protection is provided on race, creed, color, sex, or national origin.” ([ENDA] This would force all religious business owners, landlords and schools to abandon — under penalty of law — sincerely held and constitutionally protected religious beliefs and adopt a view of sexual morality that runs entirely counter to central teachings of every major world religion.)


    •”Anti-homophobic curriculum in the schools.” (Translation: pro-homosexual, government-mandated indoctrination. This is already occurring in thousands of public schools throughout America. Children are being force-fed the absurd notion that male-male anal sodomy is a perfectly acceptable, “alternative” sexual “orientation.” This calculated propaganda continues to expand, despite the fact that the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) has acknowledged that such behaviors place participants at extremely high risk for dangerous and often deadly infectious disease.)


    •http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/mbarber/080213

    • Robert Smith

      Hey Jay! The American Family Association is well finanaced also.

      Check out a tax return from the founder: http://kkaatz1.wordpress.com/2007/03/30/american-family-association-finances-this-group-should-be-renamed-the-american-wildmon-family-association/

      Speaking of AFA… They want to boycott Home Depot now. Judging by their success (not) with Ford (that is flourishing) I’m going to buy stock in Home Depot because they are marketing to ALL Americans.

      Rob

      • http://naver samurai

        They are way better than NAMBLA, moron! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

        • Robert Smith

          NAMBALA was strated in part by a priest who has since been convicted.

          So much for the actions of your kind of christian.

          Rob

          • http://naver samurai1966

            Sorry rob, it may have been started that way, but look at what it is now. Can you say that it is the same since its foundation? Sorry, but your post doesn’t hold water. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            Can you say your god is the same since his creation (if he’s real)?

            Let’s see floods, check, cities burned (in Japan with the nuclear plants), check, terror from the skies, the tornados, check, crazy followers, check…

            Yup, your brutal god is still at it.

            Rob

          • http://naver samurai1966

            Sorry moron, but your rantings about God are futile and bereft of facts. Still no sources I see. This country has been moving in the wrong direction for many yaers and it is time to get it back to the ways we were founded. It’s people, like you, that are nothing more than a cancer to this country. Let’s see what happens next year in the election. Right now Bachman, Daniels, Palin, etc., have a great lead over Obama bin Laden and the secularists. I guess they’ll be crying out the battle cry, “Victory in the Name of God!” FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

  • Jay

    Gay activists in South Africa have vowed to “flood” the country’s blood services with blood donated by gay men.

    This follows an announcement by the South African National Blood Services that it would not accept donations from men who have sex with men.

    The Gay and Lesbian Alliance says its members would lie when asked the question: “Have you had male-to-male sex in the past five years?”

    The Alliance claims members have already donated 120 units of blood.
    It aims to flood the blood services with 70,000 units.
    ‘Offensive’

    Alliance spokesman Juan Uys describes the question as “humiliating, offensive and an insult to gay men”. He says all blood should be treated equally.

    He says the SANBS has already admitted that it uses state-of the art equipment that ensures rigorous screening of donated blood, and therefore they should accept the blood from men who sleep with other men and subject it to the tests.

    Mr Uys said the question of risk of HIV infection was no reason to discriminate against gay men.
    He says if people were discriminated against based on risk, then South African women between the ages of 18 and 24 should not be allowed to donate, as research shows that they are the group with the highest HIV infection rate in the country.

    Presidential row
    But the SANBS has described the Alliance campaign as “unfortunate”.
    Spokeswoman Lanthe Exall says screening procedures are based on World Health Organisation guidelines.

    She urged the Alliance to reconsider its actions, which she said posed a risk to the lives of patients needing transfusions.

    It is not clear what will happen to blood donated on Friday, as the SANBS will be unable to tell which blood came from Alliance members who lied.
    Ms Exall says though they do have the best testing systems in place, no machine in the world can detect the HI virus during the “window period” that follows the transmission of HIV.

    It is not the first time that the SANBS has been hit by controversy.

    Last year it was forced to change its screening procedures when it was revealed that they destroyed blood donated by black people, because it claimed they were at a high risk of HIV infection.

    It emerged that President Thabo Mbeki’s blood was destroyed because he was black and because his doctor had refused to complete the personal history questionnaire used to screen donors.
    Mr Mbeki donated blood as part of a publicity campaign to persuade people to donate blood.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/4610196.stm

    • Robert Smith

      Blood donation is important.

      I urge everyone to donate. The testing is quite good so there is little need to discriminate. Those who shouldn’t don’t and there is no stigma.

      BTW, IV drug users are often infected because right wingers won’t allow them to get clean needles. That’s not “pro-life.”

      BTW, two men in a faithful relationship to each other, married even, are NOT at risk for aids if they didn’t have it when their relationship began. They are at no more risk than a heterosexual couple that don’t cheat.

      I’ve given over two gallons and I’m small time compared to some I know.

      Rob

      • http://naver samurai

        Giving blood is a good thing. We give a pint every 3 months and they do test their blood supply for AIDS and other diseases. These I agree with you, but where you get your info about HIV infection is wrong. Can’t even post a source. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

        • Robert Smith

          How are two people who are only with each other going to get aids from each other?

          Druggies DO get HIV from infected needles that could easily be exchanged.

          Rob

          • http://naver samurai1966

            They can also get it from blood transfusions and the exchange of bodily fluids. Since gays aren’t known for being to faithful, the post doesn’t hold water. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            And the alleged pro-life christian watches people getting HIV because a simple needle exchange isn’t in place.

            Such good little christians cringing in terror before their god and trying to spread their fear.

            Rob

  • http://differencebetweenaffecteffect.com/?tag=last effect affect

    You could certainly see your enthusiasm in the paintings you write. The sector hopes for more passionate writers such as you who aren’t afraid to mention how they believe. At all times follow your heart.

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