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It’s Time For The GOP To Sacrifice Warren Buffett And The Billionaires

December 6, 2012 by  


 
Hello. I’m Wayne Allyn Root for Personal Liberty. I’m a small businessman who believes we are all over-taxed. I would not raise anyone’s taxes — not one dollar. Saving this economy is all about cutting spending dramatically. We don’t have a tax problem in America; we have a spending and entitlements problem. If I were in the GOP Congressional leadership, I’d never vote for a tax increase on anyone. Let Barack Obama pass a tax increase that sends the economy off the cliff by himself, then he can take the full blame.

But since John Boehner is the worst negotiator on Earth and is a weak-willed coward who has already showed his hand and offered Obama $800 billion in tax increases (the exact number Obama wanted in the first place), then I have a suggestion for the GOP.

Since Obama’s pet billionaires like Warren Buffett are so quick to sell out the upper middle class, two can play at that game.

Boehner obviously is frightened to death that Obama has GOP Congressmen between a rock and a hard place. He sees only two choices: Go along with Obama and raise taxes or be painted as “the party of the rich.” So since the weak-willed GOP is dead set on compromise (a terrible mistake unless it gets massive spending cuts in return — which it will never get from Obama), here’s a compromise that turns the tables on Obama.

I say it’s time to sacrifice the billionaires to save small business and the GOP.

Let’s start with the Warren Buffett story. Buffett is a complete phony, a con man. He’s the biggest tax avoider in America, yet he tries to portray himself as a “fair and generous man” who gladly wants to pay more taxes. It’s time to call his bluff.

Buffett and his best friend, Obama, have played a con game on the American people for too long. A Washington version of three-card monte, they misdirect, distract and divide with class warfare. The truth is the “top 2 percent” they are so keen on taxing isn’t made up of billionaires with yachts and private planes. It’s mostly a bunch of hard-working small-business owners (like me) who have no money to spare.

Buffett is a world-class phony and hypocrite. Buffett or any other billionaire liberal can voluntarily pay 35 percent tax rates (or higher) anytime he wants. Why not 50 percent? Or 90 percent? Billionaires don’t need the money, or so says Buffett. If he’s so keen on paying more taxes than his secretary, why does he choose to pay her with income that will be taxed at higher rates and yet convert all his income to capital gains, so he pays the smallest amount? What a hypocrite!

Are you aware Buffett is in a billion-dollar tax fight with the Internal Revenue Service? Yes, for years, Buffett has paid the best tax lawyers money can buy to not pay $1 billion one of his companies owes the United States. If you’re rich, generous and intent on paying more, why not just pay what you owe?

The reason, of course, is because Buffett doesn’t intend to pay more. He wants you and me to pay more.  His accountants and lawyers will keep his taxes low or nonexistent. High income-tax rates are another way billionaires like Buffet, who don’t live off their income, increase their advantage over small businessmen like me who can compete with them only by investing what we have left after we pay our taxes.

Oh, by the way, did you know Buffett’s father was a well-connected Congressman? He’s had a silver spoon in his mouth and gold-plated connections since the day he was born. He couldn’t care less about you and me. He cares only about the next sweetheart deal he can get from Obama. See this article.

Small businessmen like me don’t get sweetheart deals from government. We have no teams of lobbyists or lawyers on call. We need our earnings — desperately. We use our earnings to pay our employees, support our families, pay for our children’s college educations and provide for our retirement (small-business owners have no pensions). But most importantly, small-business owners need our money to start and expand our businesses or, in this horrible Obama economy, save them. Take more of our money with higher taxes and we won’t be able to pay for our employees’ health insurance, make payroll or keep our doors open in a crisis. And we’ll never be able to retire. Is that fair?

Mr. Buffett, please stop lying. Stop lumping us into your group. An income of $250,000 to $500,000 is hardly rich, and we need our money. Billionaires like you don’t create jobs. Seventy-five percent or more of new jobs are created by small business. How dare Buffett and Obama play a con game, saying: “The rich don’t need the extra money.” That’s a big, fat, Pinocchio-like lie.

Here’s another big, fat lie. When Democrats quote 80 percent tax rates of yesteryear to make today’s top rate of 35 percent seem “low,” they are leaving out all kinds of facts. On Wall Street omitting facts is called fraud.

First, that high rate of yesteryear applied only to the obscenely wealthy, not small business. Franklin Delano Roosevelt’s 79 percent top rate applied to only one billionaire in the whole country, and that rate kicked in only at an income of almost $100 million (in today’s dollars). Did you ever hear Obama say that?

Second, deductions were much higher in those days, so the higher rate was grossly misleading. Third, it was primarily a cash economy wherein the tax rate was meaningless because few ever paid it. The fact is those 80 percent (or higher) tax rates applied only to billionaire industrialists (like bigmouth hypocrite Warren Buffett).

Buffett and Obama are trying to divide the GOP, force it to sacrifice small business or be painted as “the party of the rich.” The GOP should break that stranglehold by positioning itself as the protectors of small business. The sweet spot where all the jobs are created is small-business owners earning $250,000 to $500,000. To prevent a collapse of the U.S. economy, the GOP needs to become the courageous fighter for small business.

Let’s give Buffett a taste of his own medicine. Forget the super-rich and the corporate CEOs. The phonies with the private jets and yachts supported Obama and claim to want to pay more taxes, so let them. The GOP should propose a deal to raise tax rates starting at incomes of $5 million, $10 million and $20 million per year. Add a special tax increase (a huge one) to incomes over $100 million per year. Hit Buffett where it hurts. Let’s see if the old, hypocritical geezer agrees to that one. I’m betting he blows a gasket. I’m betting he whines and complains and says it’s too expensive and the billionaires will leave the country, which exposes his lie and hypocrisy. He wants the tax increases on other people: the middle class, the upper middle class and small business. You and me. Let’s turn the tables on him. If Boehner is going to compromise on taxes anyway, let’s sacrifice the billionaires.

Result? The GOP is now the hero, the protector of small business. Thirty million small-business owners will owe a debt of gratitude, along with everyone who works for them. That’s probably a total of 50 million to 75 million people the GOP has stood up for, saved their businesses and saved their jobs.

In return for sacrificing the truly rich, the GOP should demand Democrats give a minimum of three to one in spending cuts: cuts that take effect right now — not 10 years in the future when a new weak-willed Congress will make sure they never happen at all. If Obama won’t do that deal, then he proves he’s the enemy of small business, he’s the protector of fat cat billionaires, and he has no interest in reducing the debt. If that’s the case, the GOP should walk away, let Obama send the economy off the fiscal cliff and allow Obama to take 100 percent of the blame. It’s his economy. Let him own it.

Oh, and he can keep Warren Buffett, too.

I’m Wayne Allyn Root for PersonalLiberty.com. See you next week. Happy holidays and God bless.

Wayne Allyn Root

Wayne Allyn Root is one of America's leading Libertarian-conservative authors. Wayne's new book is The Murder of the Middle Class Wayne is a Capitalist Evangelist, serial entrepreneur, conservative media commentator, and proud champion of the middle class. He is a former Libertarian vice presidential nominee and Fox News regular. Follow Wayne on Twitter and visit Wayne's web site: www.ROOTforAmerica.com

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  • independent thinker

    Excellent proposal Wayne. I have been thinking along those lines for months but could never quite get a handle on it. Of course it is doubtful Boehner has the smarts or balls to do that.

    • eric

      only worth it if we are talking about an ACTUAL spending cut, as in less than they got last year or the year before. NOT the political doublespeek of a cut in the expected increase as is so often used.

      • podunk

        We’re facing financial disaster because of boneheads and progressive republicans. They share equally in the $1.25 trillion per year debt increases over the past 4 years! They share equally in the pathetic economic demise of America over those same years! Bernanke and Geitner continue printing worthless bonds and money that will destroy our country, without restraint!

        The House has the power to control spending. They can issue specific restricted spending mandates with felony laws containing specific minimum severe penalties that will prohibit specific disbursements and end the plunder! It needs to begin with defunding the czars and their empires, followed by stripping all powers to regulate beyond the legislatures. We won’t need new taxes if congress prohibits and levies felony criminal charges for giving taxpayer money or benefits to aliens! Citizen needs must override foreign aid, the UN, and political pay-backs.

        So it will be, Mr. Boehner and fellow republican progressives, you haven’t seen anything, yet. You’re defiling our morals, heritage, and sovereign country, things the tea party tries to protect… democrat and republican alike. You (pl.) haven’t defended the tea party from progressives’ vile slander and deception. You’ve (pl.) failed to protect our country from international looters, who have stripped our productive infrastructure over the past 25 years. Rather than not vote, I’ll tirelessly support a democrat to unseat any republican who votes with you on the cliff, amnesty, or any other socialist world government crap you support. One more strike, and you’re out of commission – in the minority – where losers belong!

        Ps… No… they can’t pass laws without senate & president signatures… BUT THEY CAN STOP THE FLOW OF MONEY AND END THE PLUNDER!!!! They can stop Obama and Reed from spending anymore period… especially without an approved budget. They can get a court order to enforce it! Don’t approve anything without near minute detail restrictions – NOTHING discretional, down to the penny!!! GET SERIOUS!

      • Chester

        Podunk, perhaps you should move back where your name suggests you originated. As for making all these NEW felonies, who is going to pay for the prisons to incarcerate all the people you foresee being charged and convicted of spending more than the Republicans authorized? And it have to be a Republican controlled house, senate, and presidency to get something like that through.

      • Texas Ride

        Podunk, very good! Why won’t the republicants use the power they have to “stop the bleeding” of Americans’ wealth and defund all the waste.

        Republicants need to stop everything until there is a budgetpassed! What is the reason that we have not had a budget for the last four years….It is the Law..(or are we no longer interested in anything but omaumau law.)

        The House evidently belongs to the communist party (formerly the democrat party.) In fact, it is beginning to look like this is a one-party government! The republicants have either joined the communitst party or they are all morons (probably both.) I have not been for a third party, but it is beginning to look like the GOP no longer tolerates conservative ideals. Maybe it is time to join and support a real conservative party, that is made up of real Americans,

        • Jeff

          I hope you’re very happy in your new Party of 1. J.R. just died.

      • don

        bohner is the same as democats. they all want the same an its not to lower the depercit you want to know who stands for lowing an who aginist it ? look no further that who kicked who off his commities. that tell the whole story an its a disgrace to us. please don’t let this stand. call an call some more. the higher up in the rept. party no longer stand for what we want.

    • Nadzieja Batki

      What if O does want the US to go over the fiscal cliff?

      • Deerinwater

        Hmm? ~ he doesn’t Nadzoeja ~ I know that you don’t trust my opinion , in fact you have no trust at all, while ~ it is what it is.

        But every President , is thinking about how histories long view will look upon their tenure AS they deal with on going day to day issues as Presidents put into play “policy” that have long term ramifications that affects the whole world in various ways.

        Well? except for W anyway ~ as to-date, W has gone down in history as having done more for the liberation of the Arab people than any US President prior or since.

        While it is true that he did express the intent to “liberate” the Iraqi people, I don’t believe today’s events in the Arab world is actually what he had in mind.

        This is a cleaver link you might enjoy.

        http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/interactive/2011/mar/22/middle-east-protest-interactive-timeline

      • http://ontheramparts.wordpress.com drtch

        There is no “fiscal cliff,” except in the sense of our debt-based economic system being thoroughly corrupt and comprised of the IMF, World Bank, Bank of England and Federal Reserve System (which also dove-tails with the Globalists). Please read some books such as “Web of Debt,” “Creature of Jekyll Island,” and “Secrets of the Federal Reserve” and get back to us. What’s more, if I wanted to pare down the budget (though “servicing the debt” is virtually meaningless in our loony system), I would dismantle the “Fed,” impose a very modest 10% tax on EVERYONE, regardless of income level, and status as business, corporation or individual, with no loopholes, subsidies or exemptions, whatever…and cut the Truly Insane Military-Industrial-Intelligence budget in HALF…and bring all our soldiers back home. We could also give “walking papers” to most all of the federal tax people, along with a nice Xmas card, suggesting they get “real jobs.” You see, the Average Joe would happily pay his share, as it simply would not be worth the hassle of playing games when the amount is about a third of what it customarily has been. Please also reflect on the fact that recalling our troops would mean a significant saving in federal fossil fuel usage. All these wars are reflective of serious psychopathology. JUST SAY NO!!

    • Don

      To bad, the Republican leadership will never see Mr. Root’s video. Mr. Root makes total sense.

    • Peter Sagi

      Hey Wayne, you are overtaxed because you voluntarily incur liability for taxes. Yeah, that’s right, you are doing it to yourself. Someone has to give you the game or you’re phugged.

      The income tax is an excise tax, a tax on privilege, and only MEASURED by the income derived from use of the taxable privilege, so saith the US Supreme Court in the earliest of decisions upholding the Constitutionality of the income tax. Here is the analogy … suppose and your best buddy Bob were the only two folks around, out on the middle of a frozen lake way back when before all manner of silly rules and regs. You can build a shack on the ice for yourself, cut a hole, and catch and eat as many fish as you like AS A RIGHT, and Bob can do the same. But suppose Bob isn’t as handy as you in building shacks or cutting holes in the ice, and he asks if he can fish out of your fishing hole. You say yes, but, you want something for your efforts and say he may fish out of your fishing hole provided he gives you every 4th fish he catches. That would be a tax of sorts. Is it a tax on fish??? NO, because Bob could fish elsewhere and keep all his fish. The tax is on hte privilege of fishing out of your fishing hole and shack and only measured in terms of every 4th fish caught. Get it???? You should be asking yourself what you are doing to that would be considered fishing out of the federal fishing hole.

      For most folk, the answer is “employment” which is a specific legal term. You can be hired without being “employed.” If you are merely hired, you are in a two party contract between you and the person or company that hired you. Use an SSN on the job via form W-4 and now you are “employed.” The slave enumeration bureau at ssa dot gov will admit in writing if asked that ssn use is voluntary and not required to live OR WORK in the US. The IRS admits on its website that form W-4 is voluntary. Use an SSN on the j ob and you have invited the govt. in as a third party. It is as if you are going thru them like a temp agency. This allows them to demand on your behalf minimum wage, maternity leave, OSHA regs, overtime regs, and pretty soon Obamacare. You have converted hire into the taxable privilege of “employment” and thereby incurring liability for FICA, payroll tax, Medicare tax, federal income tax, state income tax, local income tax, and Obamacare.

      If you are like most businessmen, you probably have your incorporated business entity “employ” you, but that is not necessary, not even to have the business expense out the cost of your hire on its tax return. As a non taxpayer, i.e., no SSN, the corporate entity can expense out the cost of your hire under the catagory of OTHER on its corporate return.

      Then there is the matter of taxes on the business entity itself. The business entity will need a taxpayer ID number as a matter of practicality since no bank will do business without one, even though that is their corporate policy and not any law. What works is an LLC held by an unincorporated business trust organization. It really is that simple.

      Never mind tax rates, never mind deductions, never mind all the subtle nuances in the tax codes, etc. The bottom line is knowing how liability is incurred for the income tax in the first place and simply avoiding that.

      Pete

      • Gordon

        Well PETE, that sounds great. Only trouble is that when the irs decides to audit you for the last 15 years on the basis of tax fraud (no time limit, no proof of wrongdoing) and declares all your tax forms for 15 years as wrong and the burden of proof then becomes YOURS.. You can’t use your infor to prove you are right, they won’t accept that, and how do you prove that they are wrong? Tens of thousands of dollars and several years later you are still fighting an ongoing monthly battle to prove yourself. As your tax lawyers, tax accountants, etc, die off and new ones take over and try to get up to speed….. I’ll hook you up with my buddy…..Try it, it is lots of fun.

      • Gordon

        Makes me want to believe that the best thing to do is mundane work an hourly wage with a W4 and let them take what they want every week. At least a problem won’t be your fault.

      • GALT

        26 C.F.R. § 31.3402(p)-1 Voluntary withholding agreements.
        Title 26 – Internal Revenue

        Title 26: Internal Revenue
        PART 31—EMPLOYMENT TAXES AND COLLECTION OF INCOME TAX AT SOURCE
        Subpart E—Collection of Income Tax at Source

        § 31.3402(p)-1 Voluntary withholding agreements.

        (a) In general. An employee and his employer may enter into an agreement under section 3402(b) to provide for the withholding of income tax upon payments of amounts described in paragraph (b)(1) of §31.3401(a)–3, made after December 31, 1970. An agreement may be entered into under this section only with respect to amounts which are includible in the gross income of the employee under section 61, and must be applicable to all such amounts paid by the employer to the employee. The amount to be withheld pursuant to an agreement under section 3402(p) shall be determined under the rules contained in section 3402 and the regulations thereunder. See §31.3405(c)–1, Q&A–3 concerning agreements to have more than 20-percent Federal income tax withheld from eligible rollover distributions within the meaning of section 402.

        (b) Form and duration of agreement. (1)(i) Except as provided in subdivision (ii) of this subparagraph, an employee who desires to enter into an agreement under section 3402(p) shall furnish his employer with Form W–4 (withholding exemption certificate) executed in accordance with the provisions of section 3402(f) and the regulations thereunder. The furnishing of such Form W–4 shall constitute a request for withholding.
        (ii) In the case of an employee who desires to enter into an agreement under section 3402(p) with his employer, if the employee performs services (in addition to those to be the subject of the agreement) the remuneration for which is subject to mandatory income tax withholding by such employer, or if the employee wishes to specify that the agreement terminate on a specific date, the employee shall furnish the employer with a request for withholding which shall be signed by the employee, and shall contain—

        (a) The name, address, and social security number of the employee making the request,
        (b) The name and address of the employer,
        (c) A statement that the employee desires withholding of Federal income tax, and applicable, of qualified State individual income tax (see paragraph (d)(3)(i) of §301.6361–1 of this chapter (Regulations on Procedures and Administration)), and
        (d) If the employee desires that the agreement terminate on a specific date, the date of termination of the agreement.

        If accepted by the employer as provided in subdivision (iii) of this subparagraph, the request shall be attached to, and constitute part of, the employee’s Form W–4. An employee who furnishes his employer a request for withholding under this subdivision shall also furnish such employer with Form W–4 if such employee does not already have a Form W–4 in effect with such employer.

        (iii) No request for withholding under section 3402(p) shall be effective as an agreement between an employer and an employee until the employer accepts the request by commencing to withhold from the amounts with respect to which the request was made.
        (2) An agreement under section 3402 (p) shall be effective for such period as the employer and employee mutually agree upon. However, either the employer or the employee may terminate the agreement prior to the end of such period by furnishing a signed written notice to the other. Unless the employer and employee agree to an earlier termination date, the notice shall be effective with respect to the first payment of an amount in respect of which the agreement is in effect which is made on or after the first “status determination date” (January 1, May 1, July 1, and October 1 of each year) that occurs at least 30 days after the date on which the notice is furnished. If the employee executes a new Form W–4, the request upon which an agreement under section 3402 (p) is based shall be attached to, and constitute a part of, such new Form W–4.

      • GALT

        Gordon, to answer your question……..if you are the “employee”, without a w-4 in place,
        you have no income subject to tax, , and as you have no “income”, you are not required to…..and do not “file a return”……..of any kind.

        You would no longer be included in any “payroll” information, that your employer would
        provide for “payroll tax purposes”…..because you are no longer paying those taxes.

        Nor would you show up on your employers return except as a line item expense….lumped
        in with everything else included in that line item.

        The IRS therefor has no information about you and “no jurisdiction” to pursue you,
        since you have not “volunteered to be subject”……as a person “liable” for such a tax.

        and no part of title 26 would identify you as being a “person liable for such a tax”.

      • Gordon

        Unfortunately this is not an ideal world. I am well acquainted with a man going through this situation, and regardless of these pretty words printed herein, HE has his hands full with filed leans, etc. Howl as he and his representatives are, the feds have him by the short hairs and he is in a serious situation> So even though anyone in this column or other might site text etc, what actually happens is that they do what they want without restraint. Face it. That is the way the system actually works here in the good old USA.

      • DrTCH

        On the subject of Taxation, well said, Peter!! Incidentally, the only thing which is subject (maybe) to the state and federal “income taxes” is “income.” Are any of you familiar with the substantial case-law which defines income as “corporate profit” (profit, not “gross receipts”)?

        Now on the subject of “Entitlements.” I suggest we end ALL corporate entitlements, subsidies and tax loopholes IMMEDIATELY…as well as halving the insane Military-Industrial-Intelligence budget. We would be ending the psychopathological foreign wars, and OVERNIGHT would have plenty to help bail-out our schools, people about to lose ther jobs and homes…and maybe even enough to fund critical energy research to get us of the damn fossil fuels and gasoline combustion engines.

      • http://ontheramparts.wordpress.com drtch

        Please take a moment and re-read the beginning of a comment by GALT:

        § 31.3402(p)-1 Voluntary withholding agreements.
        (a) In general. An employee and his employer may enter into an agreement under section 3402(b) to provide for the withholding of income tax upon payments of amounts described in paragraph (b)(1) of §31.3401(a)–3, made after December 31, 1970. An…

        Did you get that? VOLUNTARY WITHHOLDING AGREEMENTS.

        And, what’s more, the IRS defines the Income Tax as a system of “Voluntary Assessment.” Yet, the agency manages this system like the German S.S. and considers all of its regulations and determinations as Mandatory. How does it feel to be taken hostage?

      • GALT

        Gordon, there are tons of “horror stories” about people making attempts to “do stuff”
        based in things they THINK they understand……..

        The IRS makes a point of POINTING this out, every year, at the appropriate time….
        but regardless of the STORY and the HORROR………the key component is that
        unless “jurisdiction” exists……..no government has any “legal power” over you….so
        regardless of what you may believe, as it concerns your friend…….FACTS are
        required to determine by what means the IRS established “jurisdiction”.

        And this applies to “any” authority in government.

        Understanding what “jurisdiction” is or how it is obtained can be a bit tricky
        to understand so and because we are operating in “admiralty and maritime”, which
        requires a “reservation of rights” before the “fact”, I am going to describe the most
        bizarre case where “jurisdiction” can be obtained when it does not exist.

        It is a hot sunday afternoon, so you decide to eat an ice cream cone in public, and are cited by a law enforcement officer, probably from homeland secuirty, for “eating
        an ice cream cone in public” and are required to appear in court.

        When you do, you are asked to plead to the charge…….it does not matter which
        plea you enter…….if you actually offer a “plea”, you have just granted the “court”
        jurisdiction to “judge” your actions. ( no other element is necessary )

        As for you “friend”…….he had to have done something that gave or implied
        that the IRS had “jurisdiction”…….because the only proper legal remedy that
        exists…..when authority does not have “jurisdiction”….is to challenge the
        FACT that jurisdiction exists……..there is no other argument that can be
        made or is required to be made.

        For most people this is a very difficult “concept” to grasp…..and “common sense”
        has no value………only KNOWLEDGE will serve…….and from what I can tell,
        FEAR can be a great inducement, to encourage “ignorance” and the “attempt”
        to overcome it. ( but that could just be me…….since that is the usual product of
        discussions of this kind )

    • http://www.facebook.com/benjamin.fox.98892 Benjamin Fox

      Karl Marx said there are 10 steps to communism, one is tax the people into slavery, the elite idiots in the Senate and Congress spend millions to get into power, why? Are they representatives or controllers? Write laws for us but, not for them? It’s time to start over and elect those without a agenda, those who represent us and don’t enslave us. Time to get a American President, not one from Kenya, term limits, no retirement when done, no big staffs to write the laws, maybe 1 or 2 and no more. Unions that are socialist by nature, the robbers of jobs and getting ahead, I know, I worked for many and they didn’t help me because I always gave a days work for a days pay, they and their leaders want to control the industry and not work for it, Commie sobs and nothing more. Time to kick the UN out of the U.S. and stop paying tax payer money to those who hate us. Aid? Yes, medical and food and nothing more. Tell those who try to come over our borders, you will die, just like Mexico does on it’s southern borders. Time to get back to America and forget the Euro’s who are already slaves where the government decides who lives and die’s. Stop killing babies who are those who help a country become greater, time to be FREE and stop being slaves to those who say they serve when they really enslave.

  • Doc Sarvis

    Where is the evidence that increasing taxes on the top 1-2% will send the economy off the cliff? There is A LOT more evidence that giving the same group tax breaks WILL NOT generate more jobs.

    Mr. Root should define what he means by the “upper middle class”. A very soft phrase to con the reader into believing his version of the economy.

    Mr. Root tries to portray Buffet as a fat cat, which he is, while downplaying his own status from his Granite Star on the Las Vegas Walk of Stars (right up their with Elvis, Frank Sinatra, and Wayne Newton – they’ve all done quite well). A best selling author, cyndicated columnist for FoxNews.com and The Washington Times, national spokesman for several companies, etc.; yes, Mr. Root has it tough. I seriously doubt that a slightly higher rate on folks earning over a quarter of a million dollars a year is going to break them or even stop them from hiring that next nanny or factory worker (if they even considered hiring someone who lives in the U.S.)

    • Warrior

      I say, since our legislators won’t cut their own salaries, boehner should propose a special tax rate just for themselves and the rest of the gubmint largesse. This could turn out to be national “tax your least favorite group” day. Send your ideas about “fairness” to your “congresscreature”. Let’s get involved. Afterall, it’s gubmint by the “people”, right?

      • Doc Sarvis

        What the President and Democrats in Congress are advocating IS raising taxes on themselves, just not exclusively.

      • Warrior

        Doc – I would REALLY prefer they take a pay cut. Get real my friend.

      • Doc Sarvis

        Warrior, you suggesting that Congress should vote themselves a pay cut – and you are telling ME to get real?

      • eddie47d

        I will agree with one thing the Republicans have advocated for and that is to close loopholes for those same wealthy that Wayne rails against. I don’t care if Warren Buffet or James Koch get nailed. No more special favors for the “job creators” who aren’t creating jobs. Crony Capitalism is eating up America and they are also picking winners and losers. The wealthy have scammed the system for too long and their world is surreal where they don’t give a damn about the Constitution or your next door neighbor. I’m tired of the government and private companies putting us between a rock and a hard place and neither is my “best friend”.

      • http://yahoo charlene

        where is sora, in this he has as much money as buffet. and the goverment will hide its money and only the little guy will get taxed. have you ever seen a poor goverment person, they may have little means going in but end up a million are. look at obama, he stared with 2mill. now hes got over 11mill. and thats no counting all he has taken, and even the little towns wine up stelling thousands from the people they are suppost to serve.in other words the GOVERMENT STELLS AND KEEPS FOR IT SELF, and then if thats not bad enought we give trillions, and millions to the world, we support it. and the dead beats here. in other words STOP SPENDING THE HARD WORKING TAX PAYERS. think this way the money we use to support the other countrys we cound put into social sercurty, and med.care. think about that. dont need to work yourself into the grave and never collect what you paid into.

      • rendarsmith

        Yeah right Doc! LOL! Who do you think you’re fooling? We’ve seen Obama’s frequent vacations. That guy is making no sacrifices whatsoever. Try a different strategy, and put some thought into it this time.

      • eddie47d

        You are partially right Charlene yet partially wrong too. We have costly wars and foreign intervention because of Corporate interests who go to Washington with hat in hard asking the taxpayer to fund their extravaganzas. As an example most oil deals in the Middle East benefit their own Elites or Kings. The people see they are being used and rebel against the rulers. They blame America and our government eagerly sends in troops. Its always the same Catch-22 whether in Iraq or Libya. As far as Obama having $11 million most of that money came from his book sales so in others words he earned it.Besides that Presidents make $450,000 a year plus before 2008 Michelle was making $500,000 per year. Now if you can find that Obama is involved with Insider Trading whether in or out of the political scene then I will listen.

      • GALT

        Well, pay for the government worker….is quite easy to calculate…..as it is a “wage”, and since the “government” has since determined the “standard deduction” for the wage earner………( and their dependents )….and taxes that…..and everything above that…..the logic MUST BE……..that that is sufficient to satisfy……that

        ““A man must live by his work, and his wages must be at least enough to maintain him. They must even on most occasions be somewhat more: otherwise it would be impossible for him to bring up a family and the RACE of such workmen could not last beyond the first generation.”

        So whatever that “wage” is…….that is “not taxable”, must therefor be an “amount” deemed
        as a “minimum” to meet the necessities of life………. ( or survival )

        Surely any “elected official” would and should be happy with such a return, for
        “temporary public service”? And to make it interesting, there should be an additional
        legal restriction, that no other funds may be accessed or used, while holding such an elected position……..or from any other source.

        If nothing else, it would certainly focus the conversation of the “elected official” to
        a more pragmatic understanding, as it regards the effects of what they choose to
        legislate?

      • Michael J.

        Galt,
        What makes you think you can convince the Fox to change his methods of guarding the Hen House?

      • Old Henry

        I have advocated taxing all registered democrats at 90% for a long, long time. It’s an even better idea now.

        We should also tax all politicians at 90%.

        We should also eliminate Soetoro’s, Biden’s salary along with Mooch’s staff.

        While we are at it, eliminate the democrat leadership’s salary / benefits in the Congress.

        It’s only FAIR.

      • GALT

        Michael, I have no expectation of convincing “anyone” of “anything”……..

        This is simply previous material that has been re-arranged to suggest a means
        of determining the “proper compensation” for elected officials…….in accordance
        with the appropriate mythology of “the founders” regarding public service…….and
        using other terms which have shifted “legally” and otherwise over the years…….

      • America Rules

        ““A man must live by his work, and his wages must be at least enough to maintain him. They must even on most occasions be somewhat more: otherwise it would be impossible for him to bring up a family and the RACE of such workmen could not last beyond the first generation.”

        Such a Nobel statement, but like most communist ideas, is total deceit.

        A “man” must live by his work, but a slave needs to be supported from birth to grave.

        America has been creating a slave state for the past 50 years and the democratic cult is the beneficiary of this disease.

      • GALT

        America Rules??????

        Which ‘communist’ would you be referring to????????

        If nothing else it will be good for a laugh…….

      • GALT

        Even funnier since the author of your quote is………….ADAM SMITH!

    • http://aol Jen

      If they tax the rich higher rates, which includes some businesses and corporations who do you think is going to pay more for their products to make up for the tax?? We are.

      • Doc Sarvis

        You assume that the rich are operating on the finacial margins. I seriously doubt that Mitt Romney will do without his car elevator in one or more of his homes just because his tax rate it slightly elevated. You also ignore the role that price competition among competitors plays in establishing the price of a product.

      • Paul Wells

        Well said, Jen, you’ve hit on the real irony of this situation. This is *exactly* how they get something that sounds so fair and right to punish the middle class, the very ones they proclaim to protect. Congresspeople and The WH are like a baby’s diaper, and need to be changed often…for the same reason!

      • eddie47d

        Jen; Businesses are raising prices like gangbusters as it is so increased taxes would just be another excuse for them. Its all about feeding the shareholders not the consumer of the product. Investors have become another scam which drives prices up and Wall Street no longer plays fair. I agree that Corporate taxes should either remain the same or even lowered for the more you tax them the higher cost for their product. I do say tax the heck out of CEOs and either cut out their loopholes and golden parachutes or try them for fraud. ( Those with investments need to stop being coned and stop feeding the CEOs piggy bank because they are not earning what they are taking in) Their incomes are outrageous and its no longer about free enterprise but gouging the consumer. They have all become arrogant and deceitful and expect us to blindly accept their behavior.

      • Flashy

        “which includes some businesses and corporations” <— jen

        business income and net personal income are two different beasts. The income tax rates are for personal income, not business.

      • Caveman101

        Flashman, do you know what an “S” corporation is?

      • GALT

        Caveman. do you know what an LLC is, or MLP is?

        how about what a non sequitur is?

        “Is our children learning?” well “is you”?

      • Michael J.

        Jen,
        You are exactly correct. Taxes and urine trickle down-hill at the behest of gravity, just ask Ed Asner.

        Don’t listen to the pathetic panderings proclaimed by the present plethora of paid political parrots who persistently plead otherwise.

      • Michael J.

        Galt,
        Well, I’m a little rusty because it’s been several decades since my days at FU, but I think LLC stands for languishing lies committer. Twas subject matter light years above my head and subsequently never covered in the aquisition of my shade tree degree. My professor assured me that it was of little consequence to me and was reserved for those being groomed for the highest slots in government, as his hooked ear-ring fell into his plate of suishi… kind of reminded me of when my Dad took me fishin.

        MLP? State of the art Mini Long Play record players you could take anywhere. So compact and practical that many Rap music bands still use
        them to this day.

        Non Sequitur? Well, I looked that one up and the encyclopaedia said: See Galt

      • Flashy

        “Flashman, do you know what an “S” corporation is?”

        yep. In short and brief, a corporate entity where it may take business income, apply business tax breaks, depreciations, write offs etc, maintain the corporate liability shield … and the net income may be taken by the shareholders as ordinary income. “may’ is a key phrase as residual income may be set aside for later distribution.

        I believe, though i’d have to check, that ordinary income may then have ordinary income tax bennies such as mortgage deduction etc applied …

        Bottom line, there is “business income’ and there is “personal income”…an S corporation has no bearing on this debate

      • GALT

        A “little rusty”, Michael? Trust me……your brain is completely “oxidized”!

      • Michael J.

        Galt,
        At last, a brief response. Outstanding! There might be room for you after all amongst the field of humans.

    • Timothy Crenshaw

      Mr. Root defined the upper middle class over and over. Obviously you are a liberal progressive with selective hearing. $250,000 to $500,000 a year is his definition of upper middle class. You contend they have it just great and are doing so well they can afford to pay more. Do you know how much ONE McDonald’s franchise license costs? $250,000 of non-borrowed assets just to start discussions with the corporation. The upper middle class does not need money to reinvest? Are you stupid? You complain they do not need it and do not create jobs. It is a proven fact which no economist or elected official will argue that small businesses create the jobs in this country. You are massively uninformed and should not be participating in discussion where your opinion is more important to you than your facts. I love how you say the upper middle class can take the hit and completely gloss over the insanely wealthy making 10 to 100 or more million dollars a year cannot just take the whole burden themselves. Why is that? That is because you know it is those billionaires who are supporting your liberal progressive agenda since they know Obama is not going to make them pay their fair share. They know that if you are a billionaire instead of a millionaire that Obama is your best friend and your money is safe as long as he is in charge. Please stop your lying, posturing and ignorant rhetoric. If the someone who makes up to $500,000 a year can afford to pay more then they should have to because someone making $500,000,000 a year can pay enough to cover them. Warren Buffet alone is worth over $44,000,000,000 AFTER giving away $38,000,000,000 to Bill Gates charity. If you are telling me he cannot afford to pay enough to keep the upper middle class from being unable to expand and invest in their own businesses then you are a communist looking to destroy this country. This is simple fact.

      • Doc Sarvis

        When did I say that small businesses do not create jobs?

        You wrote; “I love how you say the upper middle class can take the hit and completely gloss over the insanely wealthy making 10 to 100 or more million dollars a year cannot just take the whole burden themselves.” Where did I say that?

        You accuse me of “lying, posturing and ignorant rhetoric” yet it is you that fabricated my position.

      • Flashy

        “$250,000 to $500,000 a year is his definition of upper middle class.”

        OK…let’s take the $500,000. It’s income OVER $250 G’s, so that has $250,000 subject to a 3% increase. 3% of 250,000 is $7500. OK..so you’re position is someone with a gross net personal taxable income of $500,000 is unable to afford an additional $7500 in taxes? On an income of $41,666.66/month, an additional $625 is gonna break or make the person in his home life ?

        Criminey….

      • Karolyn

        Timmy seems to have a reading comprehension problem. He’s projecting beliefs on people that aren’t there.

      • Daveh234

        Timmy seems to know more than everyone else. I hate when nit-wits nit-pic!
        The whole “Fiscal Cliff” is a fabricated item. We need to generate revenues via added taxes, lessening deductions, corralling waste in programs and a general reduction in spending across many fronts.

      • DaveH

        Flashman says — “Criminey”.
        Yes indeed.
        Because the issue isn’t the higher taxes. The issue is — Who can spend the money more wisely, more efficiently, Government or the original owner of that money? We all know how wastefully Government spends money, and why not? They didn’t earn that money. Easy come, easy go. Not so for the people they took the money from. They worked hard, worked long hours, sacrificed leisure time, took personal and financial risks, and the myriad other things required to earn money. So of course they’re going to be more careful that they spend their money wisely.
        And they earned that money from Voluntary purchasers of their Goods or Services. Not so for Big Government which Takes the money by Force.
        Capitalists invest much of their money in Productive Factors — machinery, plants, workers, office supplies, etc., which allows them to produce more and cheaper goods for all of us. Government just consumes that money leaving us with fewer and more costly goods and services as a result of the diminished Production.
        Big Government is a logical failure, and it is a practical failure, as evidenced by this report:
        http://www.freetheworld.com/2012/EFW2012-complete.pdf

        So you might wonder — Why do people like Flashman try so hard to manipulate you to do what is bad for you? Obviously, they are benefiting at Your expense.

      • DaveH

        Don’t let ignorant Liberal Progressives, like Doc Sarvis, Flashman, Karolyn, and Dave234, rob you of your futures. Fight back. Educate yourself. You can start that education by reading this well-written book by Kal Kelly:
        http://library.mises.org/books/Kel%20Kelly/The%20Case%20for%20Legalizing%20Capitalism.pdf

      • Flashy

        Sigh…here comes DaveH with his inane outside of reality statements..and Mises links.

        So DaveH….tell us … what state/nation has ever been successful … heck, let’s say for 20 years…using your economic theories (or that of Mises) ?

      • GALT

        STEAL THIS POST………USE AS INSTRUCTED……………..

        a brief excerpt from the book Econned.

        “In 1776, Adam Smith published The Wealth of Nations. In it he argued that the uncoordinated actions of large numbers of individuals, each acting out of self interest, sometimes produced , as if by “an invisible hand,”results that were beneficial to broader society. Smith also pointed out that self interested actions frequently led to injustice or even ruin. He fiercely criticized both how employers colluded with each other to keep wages low, as well as the ” savage injustice ” that European mercantilist interests had “commited with impunity” in colonies in Asia and the Americas.

        Smith’s ideas were cherry picked and turned into a simplistic ideology that now dominates university economics departments. This theory proclaims that the “invisible hand” ensures that economic interest will always lead to the best outcomes imaginable. It follows that any restrictions on the profit seeking activities of individuals and corporations interfer with this invisible hand, and therefor are “inefficient” and nonsensical.

        According to this line of thinking, individuals have perfect knowledge both of what they want and everything happening in the world at large,and so they pass there lives making intelligent decisions. Prices may change in ways that appear random, but this randomness follows predictable and unchanging rules and is never violently chaotic. It is therefore possible for corporations to use clever techniques to reduce and even eliminate the risks associated with their business. The result is a stable productive economy that represents the apex of civilization.

        This heartwarming picture airbrushes out nearly all of the real business world.”

        INSTRUCTIONS FOR USE………..this has been specifically selected to respond to the von mises link being used by DavidH…….the kelly book……….for those who insist on engaging him………( pointless )……..which will either force him to stop using that link…….or actually attempting a response to it’s refutation which is “complete” within the excerpt………..and something which he is unable to do……..it should go without saying that……….you should have sufficient understanding of the excerpt…..and be smart enough to restrict whatever the attempted response might be……..to avoid being distracted from that is actually contained within it……..( it is all you need….. so unless you LIKE wasting time…..use it )

      • Kate8

        Heh heh. Read ‘em and weep, lefties. This just in:

        http://raymondpronk.wordpress.com/2012/03/10/the-smoking-gun-barack-obama-a-k-a-barry-soetoro-at-occidental-college-claimed-he-was-a-foreign-citizen-on-financial-aid-application-videos/

        I wonder why the courts are listening now. It seems he’s been ordered to produce his records, and the WH is in an uproar.

        Want to hear that we told you so?

        WE TOLD YOU SO.

      • larry ryan

        Flashy casually determines who can pay what. Every, EVERY circumstance is individual. One size does NOT fit all. In Nevada a couple years ago they tried to pass a 1% tax on gross business income. Even ran ads saying businesses were greedy if they wouldn’t pay a measly 1% tax. The key word, of course, is GROSS income. Before expenses. If your gross income is $100.00 and it costs you $90.00 to run your business, how much of your net income is that 1%?
        Obamacare. My cousin has an auto repair shop. When Obama took office he had 7 employees. Now has 4. Had to let 3 go. Still has had several months where he paid his employees more than himself and has had months where he didn’t get a paycheck at all. When Obamcare kicks in it will be either give remaining employees full health care coverage or pay a fine of $2,000.00 per employee. When he is forced to close his doors I suppose it will be a case of another rich guy not wanting to pay his “fair share”.

      • DaveH

        Flashman says — “So DaveH….tell us … what state/nation has ever been successful … heck, let’s say for 20 years…using your economic theories (or that of Mises) ?”.
        This nation state for one, Flashman, before the Progressives started pushing their negatively productive Socialist policies. It takes time and a greater degree for Socialism to overcome the benefits of Free Markets (Capitalism), but we can see the results by looking at the Great Depression and our current Economic Malaise.
        Heck, Flashman, all we need do is look at the results of West Germany vs. East Germany for a dramatic example of what Socialism can do to a country. Or study the countries at the bottom of the Economic Freedom rankings to see what Socialism does to countries.
        Criminy Flashman, I’d think that even with the little bit of brain-power that you have, you could figure it out. But Sheesh, sometimes I am wrong.

      • Karolyn

        Kate – Did you not notice that this was posted on March 12? Nothing since?

      • Gordon

        LARRY. The liberals don’t get it. They’ll never get it. The cows could tape something by now.

      • Gordon

        LARRY. Everythiing here looks prosperous. Lots of activity, especially on the 3-4-5 of the month. Our tri-county chamber of commerce says that the unemployment rate is 30+% and 50% of the people draw some type of check on the 3rd. Money seems to be flowing profusely, Christmas shoppers have WM jammed (the only place in town). The mayor told me yesterday that 3 new government building projects are ready to start, several million bucks, and businesses are closing their doors even before Christmas season peaks. With a population of 8,000 there are over 500 empty houses, according to the CC. One mile stretch of road every business building is empty, period. Maybe 30. Things don’t look better after these 4 years.

    • DaveH

      Doc says — “Where is the evidence that increasing taxes on the top 1-2% will send the economy off the cliff?”.
      Here are two examples from our country’s history. The first is a Depression that quickly corrected, and the second is a Depression, where Government did things like Doc Sarvis and Obama would like to do, which lasted 14 years:
      http://mises.org/daily/3788

    • DaveH

      Doc says — “I seriously doubt that a slightly higher rate on folks earning over a quarter of a million dollars a year is going to break them or even stop them from hiring that next nanny or factory worker (if they even considered hiring someone who lives in the U.S.)”.
      Your “doubt” won’t keep peoples’ jobs, Doc.
      Business people invest their money for one reason (like any of us would do) to earn money on it. If their acceptable minimum return on that money is 5%, and taxes are raised on that money thus preventing them from achieving their minimum acceptable return, then they will spend it (consume it) instead of investing it in capital equipment or plants. That results in fewer jobs for those people who are dependent on somebody else to provide them a job, and it results in fewer thus more expensive goods and services for the people. It’s a double-whammy for the poor — fewer jobs and higher prices.
      I suggest, Doc, that you study the history of that “worker’s paradise” — Cuba — and learn what the Politics of Envy get you, instead of waiting to learn the hard way from our own country’s mistakes.

      • Jeff

        C.B.:

        Why do you feel obliged to always go to ridiculous extremes to make your “points”?Cuba? Really? Is that what the issue is? Talking about restoring the tax rates under Bill Clinton for the highest earners is, to you, tantamount to turning us into Cuba or North Korea? See, it’s that kind of idiocy that people find so odious about Conservative “thought.” Here’s an example of the kind of paranoia one finds on the right.

        http://thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/4-glenn-beck-and-rick-santorum-fascistic-un-disabilities-treaty-is-from-nazi-days/politics/2012/12/03/55246

      • http://PersonalLibertyDigest perfectlyaged

        I was raised in a small business and I understand how difficult it is some months to spread the money around….replacing aging equipment, payroll, taxes, supporting a family (in my family five children), etc. Now, Obamacare is a castrophictic expense and will laden the small business man down even more! Small businesses hire 80% of new hires and Obama is oblivious to this or just doesn’t care. Remember his phrase “I won?”
        Also, I am riled that Obama is using Air Force One and “campaiging” using my hard earned tax money! I don’t agree with him in the slightest and he can charter a plane and pay for the expense out of his own money. Then to add to this….he and his family are going to Hawaii for a three weeks vacation at a cost of $4M or more.
        Obama and Michelle have found an utopian lifestyle at the taxpayer’s expense. I just read that the American taxpayer spends $1.4B on the Obama family yearly.
        BTW, I have been a registered and voting democrat for almost sixty years…I did not vote for Obama either time. As far as I am concerned Obama is a homosexual Muslim Chicago thug and is illegible to be President!

      • Michael J.

        Perfectlyaged said,
        “Small businesses hire 80% of new hires and Obama is oblivious to this or just doesn’t care.”

        Wrong on both counts, his actions are not put forth out of incompetence or negligence, but a focused effort to destroy the economy. So evil is the man at the helm, that the Antichrist wishes he were Obama.

      • DaveH

        Jeff says — “Talking about restoring the tax rates under Bill Clinton for the highest earners is, to you, tantamount to turning us into Cuba or North Korea?”.
        Haven’t you heard, Jeff? It’s not the Taxes. It’s the Spending, Idiot. And the Government Spending has gone up steadily since the 1950s. They will keep spending until we do reach Cuba or North Korea status. It’s inherent in the Greed of Leaders.
        Eventually, Jeff, people will get wise to those of you feeding at the trough, and they will wake up to the fact that you are going to fight hard and say anything to keep your position at that trough.

        • http://tlgeer.wordpress.com tlgeer

          “And the Government Spending has gone up steadily since the 1950s.”

          So has the population, and we’ve added two States. Which means, of course, that Government Spending has gone up.

          Do you truly know this little about even basic Economics?

    • FreedomFighter

      Doc Sarvis,

      Raising taxes on any person or entity for the purpose of redistribution to those considered “to need the money more” is: THEFT

      I played a game with my grandchildren I called the socialism game:

      I will be the government
      You will be the rich hard working guy–oldest
      You two will be the needy poor- brother and sister

      I gave the oldest the job of cleaning cars an mowoing the lawn the other 2 played in the pool all day…

      at the end of the day I sat them all down at the table and said its payday and put 30 bucks on the table in ones in front of the oldest, he smiled and started talking about some vid game he wanted…

      II said wait a minute, remember this is the socialism game…

      I am the government and you must pay your fair share..

      I took 20 dollars back and told him it was taxes and he kept 10 dollars, then I gave 10 dollars each to the other 2 whom had spent the day at the pool.

      Then old them thats socialism. After about 5 minutes of screaming and rather nasty comments I said GAME OVER

      I scooped up all the money and said…we dont do socialism here and gave all the money to the oldest, the younger 2 pitched a fit…I told them the pool still needs cleaning…

      They the two youngest said “hey how can you take all our money back you just gave us and give it back to oldest?

      I said: Cause Im the Government…

      Laus Deo
      Semper Fi

      • Doc Sarvis

        The rich with the inside track in Congress make the rules that accellerate the REDISTRIBUTION of money to the top 1-2%. THAT is the theft!

    • Kay Cleveland

      Doc Sarvis: Who’s side are you on anyway? Under Obama…we are taxed to death…taking away all the itemized deductions on yearly taxes, increases in the tax table every year under Obama, removing deductions, there are no jobs, no HOPE of any jobs {all in China…who now basically owns the US}, he wants “dictatorship” to eliminate the debt ceiling, and the fact is…the rich pay their “fair share”. If every person in America pays 20%….the rich will pay 20% just like everybody else…which is more..because they make more money. It works just like child support: 21% of your salary…no matter what you make. Obama just wants to be a dictator..play hard ball..and if you don’t play like I want to play..and let me do what I want to do…I won’t talk to you anymore…Wah! Wah! Wah!…Impeach him before he even has the chance to lie taking the oath of office. He has violated his oath of office, abuse of power, violated the Constitution, violated the Amendments, lied and covered-up Fast & Furious and Benghazi, voter fraud, voter lawlessness, voter intimidation and voter bribery. And if you can’t see it you are due the Thanks for nothing along with all the Stupid, Radical, Liberal, Demon*crats who voted this Liar-in-Chief back in office.

      • Doc Sarvis

        President Obama got RE-elected by the American people who understood that his approach would increase taxes a bit on those who have benefitted the most from what our country has to offer while keeping rates low for the masses who have fewer resources. Even a clear majority of Republicans approve of that approach (from the exit polls).

        • George E

          Doc,

          If you’re counting on this tax rate increase keeping your rates low, I wouldn’t bet on it. There isn’t nearly enough money involved even if the government collects all of the money they’re expected (which is probably an optimistic estimate), to keep the rest of us from having to pay a lot more in taxes IF that’s all we’ve got to work with. Fortunately, it isn’t. If the economy gets rolling again this will do more to reduce the deficit than a tax rate increase on the rich. On the other hand, taxing the “rich” may cause the economy to stall out entirely, which could result in a much worse deficit problem, and even higher taxes in the future.

      • http://tlgeer.wordpress.com tlgeer

        “under Obama…we are taxed to death”

        lololol This is so far from the truth it’s almost insane. We have the lowest taxes for almost the last 100 years. In what way, exactly, does this mean that we are taxed to death??

    • http://ontheramparts.wordpress.com drtch

      Doc, I disagree about the game not “being fixed.” Clearly, many of the richest pay little or no taxes, and it has been documented that the Tax People focus particularly on the ‘Average Joe,” and not the Rockefellers and General Electric. The best way to go would be a route that was suggested at least as far back as the seventies: A straight, say 10%, for everyone, regardless of status, with no loopholes, whatever. This would simply the system tremendously, would mean that few “regular people” would find it worthwhile to play games, and we could tell the tax people to get lost (and get honest jobs). And studies have shown that we’d have plenty of revenue to meet any real needs. Even better, once we’ve cut our Defense-Intelligence-Prison Budget in half, which has been way overdue!!

  • Warrior

    Wayne, I like your thinking. And maybe California’s millionares wouldn’t mind ponying up a few more percent as well. And let’s strip those “unions” of their “exempt” status. Remember, it’s for the childen! Hey, this “fairness” thing may turn out to be a great idea after all. Absolutely boehner, GO BIG or GO HOME!

    • maggiemoo

      Warrior, I like the way you think! We could really ask a lot “for the children!”

  • Karolyn

    “An income from $250,000 – $500,000 is hardly rich.” Tell that to the millions of people in this country living at or below the poverty line.

    • Ed

      It depends largely on where you live. In many parts of the country that would indeed make you rich in my estimation, maybe not “stinking rich” like Romney and Obama (both over $10 million) but definitely rich. However in places like San Jose or Manhattan half a million is not even enough money to buy a modest 1,500 sq/ft residence.

    • Warrior

      And for good measure, let’s keep the printing machine going to insure they stay there. In fact, if we keep it going we can get loads more to join em. LOL!

    • Timothy Crenshaw

      Yes or we could tell that to the billionaires making over $100,000,000 a year. If you want the RICH to pay their fair share then pick on the RICH. A new business start up costs someone in the upper middle class their entire earnings for an entire year. What do the live on and how do they make payroll for any business they own when they are paying their entire years income to invest in creating more jobs? Now look at the billionaires in this country who don’t even notice if they loose $500,000 on a stock drop. THOSE are the ones who are rich. You are a mean spirited and spiteful woman who hates others that work hard for success while defending the billionaires who pay for nothing except the lobbyists and mainstream media who keep the ignorant masses from seeing how people like you do not care about anyone but yourself and your twisted ideals. They pay for that because it means the hand never makes to their own pocket because they know the $500,000 a year working upper middle class cannot afford an entire law firm to hide their money for them.

      • eddie47d

        LOL! Timothy, I doubt very much that she would ever defend billionaires who stiff the rest of us. There is also nothing “mean” about her so you rather lost your message.

      • Karolyn

        Timothy says: “You are a mean spirited and spiteful woman who hates others that work hard for success while defending the billionaires who pay for nothing except the lobbyists and mainstream media who keep the ignorant masses from seeing how people like you do not care about anyone but yourself and your twisted ideals.”

        You talkin to me? Where on earth did you get that from what I said? When speaking of hate, speak for yourself. I hate no one and very rarely even use the word hate to address situations.

      • DaveH

        If you don’t hate those people, Karolyn, then what is it that drives you to help yourself contemptuously to their money? Is that Your way of expressing Love?

      • eddie47d

        No one likes crooked politicians or crooked business people Dave H. It isn’t always about government and some of us happen to dispise those crooked business people a little more. You can hate government all you want but that doesn’t take away from what egregious business people do. Wanting corporates to be fair and honest has nothing to do with “envying their money”. Theft comes in many forms and not all bussiness people are honest.

      • Karolyn

        Dave – How do you come up with these inane responses? As I’ve said before, over and over, it does not matter what I say; you will find some way of coming back at me in a negative way.

      • DaveH

        Poor innocent Karolyn. Time to pull out your Magic Mirror for a little ego booster.

  • Ed

    All true, but you have to add other born-rich millionaires that pay lower tax-rates than the middle class like Romney.

    I say drop ALL exemptions and rebates, everyone in the country pays the same rate and taxes can be calculated on a 3X5 postcard. A few poor people will have some skin in the game and the rich criminals will have to pay the same rate as everyone else and lose the exemptions and shelters on their yachts and summer homes in the Bahamas.

    • Paul Wells

      Fine by me…but you’ll never sell that to the teeming “gimme, gimme, I want free stuff” masses. We’re too far gone for that, I’m afraid.

      • Flashy

        Yet, if you read Root’s article, that is EXACTLY what Root is saying about himself …

      • DaveH

        It is, Flashman? Explain that one to us, if you can.

      • phideaux

        Flashy your jealousy of those who work for their money and happen to be more successful than you is showing.

      • http://tlgeer.wordpress.com tlgeer

        ““gimme, gimme, I want free stuff””

        Who, exactly, are these people, and how do you know that this is what they think?

      • Nadzieja Batki

        tlgeer, who is saying anything about the entitlement parasites doing any thinking. It is a grabbing to gorge themselves because they believe that the entitlements will be taken away at any moment. Even a parasite fears that its host will defeat it.

        • http://tlgeer.wordpress.com tlgeer

          ” It is a grabbing to gorge themselves because they believe that the entitlements will be taken away at any moment.”

          And you know that this is a fact because . . . ?

    • http://yahoo charlene

      half if not more in washington pays, no taxs or little. so how do you make them pay taxs on them self. half of all the people obama has put into office doesnt pay there taxs. where are the i.r.s. on them. first clean up the goverment on there taxs befor you go after anyone else.

    • eddie47d

      That takes us back to Crony Capitalism where Washington and the Banksters scratch each others back. The deal has been in for some time now and they become super rich while the Middle Class falters. Its all dishonest money but they control the laws and the loopholes.

      • DaveH

        What’s your solution, Eddie?

      • eddie47d

        Bust politicians who are involved in Insider Trading and enact stronger consequences. The exact same thing with Hedge Fund Managers and Bankers. If they can’t do the time then they shouldn’t do the crime.

      • Warrior

        Well, edda, that will solve the “term limit” problem. Good plan!

      • DaveH

        Oh yeah, Eddie, that’s realistic. Why didn’t somebody think of that 100 years ago?

      • http://tlgeer.wordpress.com tlgeer

        “Crony Capitalism”

        When you look back at history, and think about it, all capitalism is Crony Capitalism.

        I don’t know which talking head came up with the phrase, and I really don’t care, but it’s the same old changing meanings to benefit their readership/viewers/listeners, not to mention their ratings. The higher the ratings the more income they get because more company’s advertise for their shows. The talking heads have a vested interest in keeping people unhappy and angry. It keeps the ratings up.

    • DaveH

      Ed says — “I say drop ALL exemptions and rebates, everyone in the country pays the same rate and taxes can be calculated on a 3X5 postcard”.

      I say, let’s really be Fair. Let’s make all adults pay the same for their Government. Why should anybody get to vote how to spend other peoples’ money? If they want that Big Wasteful Government, over other peoples’ objections, then the least they can do is to pay the same amount that the people, who don’t even want what the Government offers, have to pay.
      If they don’t like that, then they can vote for much Smaller, less Intrusive Government.

      • Smilee

        By your method those over $250,000.00 of taxable income will pay the same in taxes as someone on a full time job at minimum wage so what you are saying take all that man;s income and more thus putting him with zero income to live on and deep in debt with no means of paying it. Your badly math deficient because your numbers just do not add up. Fairness is based on equally proportionate amount of your taxable income or even more fairer on the adjusted gross income. You seldom make any sense davy.

      • DaveH

        Sleepee says — “Fairness is based on equally proportionate amount of your taxable income or even more fairer on the adjusted gross income”.
        More fairer? I think it’s time for your nap, Sleepee.

      • DaveH

        If anything, the poor should pay a larger portion of the taxes, since they typically collect more freebies from the Government.

  • To Tell The Truth

    Obozo will find a way to destroy our economy no matter what. That’s his ultimate goal to make it easier for his Muslim masters to take over America. Cripple our military, and keep kissing the arses of his Muslim Brotherhood masters.

    • Doc Sarvis

      How is President Obama crippling our military? He proposes to give them the budget they asked for, he is getting them out (largely) of two useless situations, he kept them out of Egypt (largely), he is giving benefits to veterans they didn’t have before.

      • Paul Wells

        Right, Doc Sarvis…you keep telling yourself that as the middle east simmers and then erupts and spills over to our lands. It’s never a problem…until it is! And by just standing idly by, leading from behind, the world continues to become ever more dangerous!

      • Doc Sarvis

        I am for strategic use of our military where needed and smart application of those forces when they are deployed. Iraq was not strategic nor smartly applied. Afghanistan was not smartly applied.

      • eddie47d

        You’re way off topic Paul Wells and once again blaming Obama for all the ills of the world. You must have purchased a few of Nadzieja”s blinders. The military is strong Paul Wells and the Military Industrial Complex needs to quit abusing them for corporate profits. Private enterprise has turned our military into their personal mercenary army and that needs to be halted. We have a long line of Presidents who have poked their noses into the Middle East stirring up that hornets nest. So between them and the Corporates you can give them “thanks” for al Qaeda and the Muslim Brotherhood being so angry. In other words “we spilled into their lands first”.

      • S.C.Murf

        What in God’s name do you mean Iraq not smartly applied? Our military leaders and our young men put Iraq’s military DOWN in a matter of days (excellent job), was it right and just, no. Are you writing your own prescription’s again for your mood altering drugs? I believe you not to be a doc at all but just a nurse. Get real

        up the hill
        aurborne

      • DaveH

        Those of you who think like Paul — that US military excursions are to protect our Freedom — need to read this book and learn what’s really going on:
        http://library.mises.org/books/John%20V%20Denson/A%20Century%20of%20War%20Lincoln,%20Wilson%20and%20Roosevelt.pdf

      • DaveH

        Here’s the real reason our Government is militarily involved in the Middle East:
        http://2012patriot.wordpress.com/2011/04/28/new-libyan-gold-dinar/

      • http://yahoo bob peters

        Liberals are screwing up the country big time….It’s obvious obama and his harem og NWO freaks are intentionally trying to destroy the economy…Transformation at it’s communist best…All your silly rhetoric is getting old …You Pendejos are just about to get a good a-ss kicking..so keep pushing your ignorant luck….

      • eddie47d

        Bush and Reagan were NWO so are they commies?

      • DaveH

        What difference does it make, Eddie, if they call themselves Communists or something else while they make a slave out of you?

    • Ned Roberts

      Very humorous.

      • http://ontheramparts.wordpress.com drtch

        Bob, this is a “Red Herring.” The issue has nothing to do with “Liberals.” It has to do with the Republicrats, most of whom support the NWO/Globalist Agenda (and the associated “Free Trade” nonsense) which is traitorous to the American republic and its ideals. It has no loyalty to anyone, but money and power (and special interests). If we turn off the damn “Military Industrial Intelligence” machine, and tax everyone at a very reasonable rate (even better, a straight 10% rate), we’d have plenty of money for most everything. And, BTW, the last several presidents, Bush, Clinton, Bush and Obama have all been NWO/CFR/TLC/Bilderberger presidents.

  • nc

    To Mr. Landslide Root, The Irrelevant: How many tax cuts has Obama provided for the small business owners since he took office? I missed that number in your rant!

    • Warrior

      I can answer that from “FIRST HAND” experience – 0.

      • Flashy

        Wanna place a small wager on that Warrior? You can send the monies to my PayPal account …

      • DaveH

        Is that where the Boiler Room deposits your pay check, Flashman?

      • Warrior

        Edda, “barry’s tax breaks” consist of carryovers from previous implemented tax laws and wait – A TAX CREDIT FOR HIRING UNEMPLOYED! I’ll spend $90k just to get a $2K CREDIT when I DON’t HAVE THE BUSINESS INCOME TO SUPPORT MORE PERSONEL. GO back to your handlers and get some better intel!

    • eddie47d

      So much for experience Warrior. Looks up Politics USA and the number of tax cuts for small businesses has been 18. I’m sure business expenses have gone up so maybe you didn’t notice.

  • MD

    Thank GOD Romney lost. These ridiculously extremist rants can be kept in the corner along with the rest of the other crying babies.
    You don’t run a country ignoring 1/2 the population.

    • Warrior

      Tax the “pacifier”. I like that too. See, if you put your mind to it, you can come up with all sorts of new “revenue”.

    • Paul Wells

      Oh, you mean the 1/2 that doesn’t work…but never fails to vote? Yeah…I can understand how if you have one candidate that promises you free stuff (that others pay for), versus a candidate who offers you a job…gee, I can understand how that is a really tough choice!

      /sarcasm

      • eddie47d

        Paul Wells always forgets about the “free goodies” that trickle upwards to make the fat cats even fatter. Listening to Paul one would think he’d be perfectly happy living under the British Monarch. Where a select few controlled everything and that is exactly what is happening in todays America. The King of England has been replaced by Corporate Elites who buy all the votes they want!

      • http://yahoo charlene

        so you must be an obamanight, a dumacrate, who will send this county into a tail spend, with his tax and spend. you are crazy as a bed bug.we dont need someone like obama who is a socialist pig, who like a hog hogs, up the tax payers money. id reather see someone like romney who cold have worked with the congress then tell themits my way or the hightway. what kind of moron does this, except one who wishes to destory this county, i guess you are one of them.

      • Paul Wells

        Of course he is, charlene, edda has never been right, ever! Not even once by accident. He believes in communism and the collapse of the USA, union goons running everything, and the unionized worker controlling all government. It’ll be a cold day in the nether regions of course, before any thinking person allows that to happen, but you just can’t educate the uneducatable, or rather the brainwashed/indoctrinated comrades, like edda.

      • eddie47d

        I won’t even respond to Charlene’s ridiculous and hateful spiel. Although I doubt if either her or Paul can figure it out.Please let us know if you are speaking for Conservatives or the Republican Party so I can properly address your anger. Conservatives don’t like being labeled as Republicans so I don’t want to upset the apple cart. That way I can zero in on the real culprit!

    • George E

      Obviously, that’s true, but which 1/2 are you talking about, the makers or the takers?

      • Deerinwater

        “Oh, you mean the 1/2 that doesn’t work…but never fails to vote?”

        I don’t believe there is a such a group.

        The GOP had traditionally enjoys a 27% loyal vote, ~ but even they work or have worked.

        This notion is just something someone made up and it’s stuck in some peoples minds and keeps being repeated like it might be true.

        I wish half of all Americans did vote, working or otherwise.

      • Karolyn

        In my experience, living in a poor rural area with lots on welfare, the “takers” (welfare recipients, cheaters or not) DO NOT VOTE! They just expect things to keep going their way. They have no clue about politics and what’s going on in this country. They live in their own little worlds.

      • George E

        A balanced conversation/debate on issues like this ought to take both sides (makers/takers) into account. Many of the makers are also takers to some degree. Life isn’t black and white, and we ought to take that into account to be fair and get to an optimum solution. What we generally hear are arguments from folks defending one end, or the other, of this continuum. My guess is we need to focus on protecting the folks in the middle of this continuum rather than folks on either end because they are working and contributing as best they can, but also need some assistance to get by.

      • eddie47d

        Thanks for the common sense answer George E

  • Deerinwater

    I must disagree, we have both! a taxing problem and a spending problem.

    • Warrior

      Careful there deer, some may think you’re on the road to recovery.

      • Deerinwater

        From what pray tell? ~ It’s obvious we had a taxing problem, ~ why suggest otherwise? Because Mitch McConnell said so? He don’t know beans.

        Mitch McConnell spent the majority if his 4 years efforts attempting to make Obama a single term President! ~maybe now he can earn is money and get his assets back to work.

      • DaveH

        It is just a matter of experience that if you let the Federal Government take more money, then they will spend more money.
        Here is a chart of Federal Revenues from 1950 to 2011:
        http://www.usgovernmentrevenue.com/revenue_chart_1950_2011USb_13s1li011tcn_F1f

        • George E

          DaveH,

          Great reference. Thanks.

      • DaveH

        And here is a chart of Federal Government Spending from 1950 to 2011:
        http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/spending_chart_1950_2011USb_13s1li011tcn_F1f

    • George E

      Deer,

      What I think you’re saying is that we need to balance the budget, or get closer to a balanced budget, however it’s done. Most of us on the right would definitely agree with that. The question becomes how should we do it? It can be done by increasing taxes and/or reducing spending, however, the one thing I think we all ought to be able to agree on is that we shouldn’t do anything that would cause the economy to slow down in the process because that would be a recipe for extending the pain and making the problem even worse by reducing normal tax receipts which would result in even higher deficits with the need for accompanying higher taxes (rates and/or fewer deductions/credits) and greater spending reductions, etc.

      The “golden goose” of our economy is the small-to-medium sized businesses and the people who work for them. This is where the majority of our economic growth and jobs are created. Whatever we do, we should be very careful not to do anything that might, or would, disincentivize this group of businesses to reduce growth, like passing tougher government regulations or higher taxes on them. If we can protect this group while we debate the appropriate actions to take, then any solution we come up with might not be optimum, but probably won’t take the country over the fiscal cliff either.

      • Flashy

        Nothing proposed by the administration plan hits small business or the family farm. The GOP proposal hits both….

      • George E

        Humm………….maybe it depends on how you define small business. I’m thinking this includes businesses with revenues up to at about $50M/yr. I’m guessing that your thinking of businesses much smaller.

      • Deerinwater

        I certainly agree with you George, ~ address the needs of the middle without just breaking it off in the more affluent/wealthy. ~ 37% Federal Income tax is approaching robbery for any income bracket.

        But addressing the needs of what I would call middle and lower middle income brackets will prime the pump and get us back pumping water again. The money will flow once again.

        I would not say that it’s not being done in someways today ~ but we need much more. ~

        And above all, ~ get the wealthy ~ actually paying taxes! ~ “SOME” have managed to avoid paying taxes completely by many different means. ~ They are cleaver people. They want to live and enjoy what we have in America , security, opportunity, laws that protect our food, water, air but they are not helping pay for it. Let the Romney’s of America go live offshore if they don’t want to help shoulder the load. ~ Let they enjoy island life, the smell of dead fish with flies and clouds of mosquitoes.

        This argument of Federal Taxation legality is an argument that perhaps we should be having as we search for solutions . But until there is a FIX , be a good citizen and stay on top of being current ~ and allow me to say, I find it a b1tch to keep current! and if anyone is not, ~ they are doing much better then I.

        We must adapt the proper “language” to address these economic problems that we face today and refrain from this foolish polarizing language that flies about.

  • Larry S

    I believe the number of days this tax increase will fund the federal government is 8.5 days, who is kidding who?

    Just hold on folks!

  • mark

    Notice Wayne has nothing to say about jacking up taxes on the Koch brothers. Right-wing billionaires who want to keep every cent of their often ill-gotten gains are sacred heroes. Left-wing billionaires who want to pay a little more of their often ill-gotten gains (the proposed tax increase is a very small one) are traitors to the nation. How convenient.

    • George E

      Mark,

      The difference here is that the Koch’s have lobbied for lower tax rates and less spending, not higher tax rates and more spending like many of the billionaires on the left have done, and are doing. Koch’s are not hypocrites in this debate. Buffett is a hypocrite because he doesn’t intend to pay more tax to the government.

    • eddie47d

      You got that right and yes the right wingers have their teams of hypocrites who are so damn coy about that!

    • DaveH

      Perhaps you could explain to us, mark, how their gains were “ill-gotten”?

      • Nadzieja Batki

        Simple, because mark says so.

  • boyscout

    Just to bring Mr. Root back to reality; yes, we do have a taxing problem (or rather are riddled with taxing problems) that survives in a very corrupt system that requires no small changes to effect repair. Much more consideration should go to loop hole closure and exemptions or a workable flat tax solution. And, although I am no confidante of Mr. Buffett,I am neither jealous of his accrued wealth nor a recipiant of trickle down employment from said wealth. Neither do I believe in subsidizing any of the corporatist monsters in the present scheme of excesses.
    Now for small business owners 250K+: do you actually employ anyone? (kudos if you do) or are you claiming all profits are insufficient to support a “middle class” lifestyle for two (or one)? Have you any idea how the un(under)employed survive? Is that a Sunday morning only Christianity that I smell under the stench of sundry colognes? Is it really capitalism ond not corruption that you so quiclky defend? No need to answer me, if you just answer for yourself.

  • Flashy

    “I’m a small businessman” … you’re a bookie. While it is a “business”, there’s little difference between the street corner bookie and one from Vegas, except the size of the book. An analogy wuld be the street corner guy and a dispensary. Both are illegal in some states, legit in others. And both would face “moral judgment’ by the dogma of certain religious sects. But…let’s assume we take the generic definition for sake of this thread …

    “I would not raise anyone’s taxes — not one dollar. Saving this economy is all about cutting spending dramatically.” Well…seems this line of thought finds a very small umber of adherents. Let’s take the first year of the disaster aka Bush II. A surplus carried over from Clinton’s budget and economy. Now..let’s take the end of the second year of Bush II and post “temporary tax cuts” which benefitted mostly the 1%. Hmmm…deficit spending. Common sense dictates BOTH a reduction in spending AND revenue increases. But then…common sense would have forecast both in may as well as end of October Romney wasn’t gonna win …

    “We don’t have a tax problem in America; we have a spending and entitlements problem.” Sans the entitlement programs, I would agree. though not in the way Mr. “Romney in a landslide” Root would think. We don’t have a tax problem, that’s correct. There is ample room to increase taxes on the upper incomes without any negative effect to the economy. And there is room for spending cuts…Without much displacement in the economy and social structure, probably $400-500 billion if drawn over 10 years. Done carefully, programs benefitting family farms, small business, new tech / energy, infrastructure and the lower incomes would be relatively untouched…those programs benefitting the larger corporations would be cut or shrunken by a large degree.

    “Let Barack Obama pass a tax increase that sends the economy off the cliff by himself, then he can take the full blame.” nice try and deflecting the cause. Recall Mr. root…as you well know, that it was the House GOP who insisted on the fiscal cliff scenario in return for raising the debt limit and keeping the US credit downgrade dropping only one grade for their idiocy sacrificing the good of this Nation and holding it hostage. The House GOP got exactly what they bargained for. And, if they do nothing…it’s not President Obama raising taxes…it’s their inaction in dealing with what they wrought. Call it anything you want, everyone recognizes who would be at fault, why, and that you are blowin’ hot air on this one.

    “He sees only two choices: Go along with Obama and raise taxes or be painted as “the party of the rich.” ” Errr, those are the only reasonable possible options facing Boehner.

    ” It’s mostly a bunch of hard-working small-business owners (like me) who have no money to spare.” GUFFAW … Mr. Root, i do not believe i have read anything exceeding this comment as showing a total selfishness, greed, and uncaring as that comment. Tell you what, i’ll make you a deal…for all of PLD to read and follow. You are stating that a 3% increase in the tax rates for any gross net personal income dollar earned above $250 G’s you can’t afford nor spare. OK…send your monthly and annual income/expense budget. if i can’t find those monies in that budget, i will spend the next 12 months writing pro PLD posts. Heck, i’ll even put Mises links in them. You may have to do a monthly rather than a weekly manicure etc., and rent a few weeks of the year one of the several vacation homes..but don’t try and snow anyone with that whining ‘woe is me’ line about unable to afford a 3% tax bracket rate increase for personal income above $250 G’s….

    “small-business owners need our money to start and expand our businesses … .” That’s not “personal income’ and thus not what the tax rate increase addresses. Such is a business expense and allocated to the business ledger. You are incorporated are you not? Almost every small business is … you’re pulling a con job on folks using this whine ..and you know it. Gross net personal income is much different than business income and how it’s reported and ledgered. It is just another example of a typical Conservative/extremist whiny, selfish, greedy, uncaring rant.

    Mr. Root….you’re a bookie. you know pulling a snow job requires it to be close to reality with just enough of a twist to make it “seem’ like it’s real. What you’ve written today is akin to trying to say there’s an even point spread on the Duke/Poduck U. Community College basketball game and one should lay money on Podunk U.

    Get real….

    • Paul Wells

      And yours, Flashy, is just another typical leftist/socialist, redistributionist, wealth confiscatory, make the successful pay out the nose for their success rant. Truly the opposite side of the same coin! Yet somehow, you are “oh so noble, and moral” in your theft from those who create wealth. Yeah…right!

      • Flashy

        Paul…create wealth…the question would be…for whom? The Middle Class has been robbed by the wealthy for nigh onto 30 years now. The most massive redistribution of wealth in the history of Man. the next question is ..why are you so against America and so supportive of the wealthy and Big Corporate America?

      • Paul Wells

        Quite simple, really Flashy. Because I’ve never once been offered a job from a poor person. it is corporations that employ the majority of workers in this country, and it’s always been so. I’m not saying we don’t need tax reform, we surely do. But as one of those middle class you refer to, I’ve never felt “cheated” as you describe by making the rich, richer, and in fact by my labors, i was able to share in the good fortune of the company. I realize not all companies are good to work for, but that’s a different topic.

        That’s the trouble with punishing those who are wealth creators, they’ll simply go elsewhere or cease to create wealth. Then everyone suffers.

      • DaveH

        Flashman says — “The Middle Class has been robbed by the wealthy for nigh onto 30 years now”.
        What else has happened in the last 30 years? Just this:
        http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/spending_chart_1980_2011USb_13s1li011tcn_F1t

        So Flashman is admitting that Big Government is destroying the middle class?

      • GALT

        Re-distributionist? Quite a mouthful……..at what point, do things stolen, or gained by
        fraud and/or deceit, or corruption……….cease to be the result of the “acts” by which
        they were acquired…….a.k.a. “ill gotten gains”…….and become “magically” transformed
        into “legitimate assets”………whose use and future gains, are somehow worthy
        of protection and whose “beneficiaries” are now deemed productive and valuable
        to society and “deserving” of what they had no right to, in the first place?

        Take any, self proclaimed, self reliant, rugged individualist with a “strong work”
        ethic ( also claimed ) at random……like DavidH and give him that desert island,
        where all his “von mises” fantasies originate……..and leave him there, at the peak
        of his physical and intellectual ( hypothetical ) prowess for thirty years.

        Upon returning…..what do you imagine we will find? How many mansions will he have
        built? How much “wealth” will he have accumulated? Books written? Technology
        invented? Bridges constructed? AMBITIONS REALIZED!!!!!!!!

        After all, no ones hand will have been in his pockets…….how many “shiny objects”
        will he have “toiled” to accumulate?

        As for the achievements of our author…….and his “success” as a “sports betting
        analyst” and his so called “documented” claims of both “ability” and “customers
        served”……….the “reality” ( and his credibility ) will be the equivalent, of the
        technological paradise and wealth created and achieved by DavidH.

        Mr Root’s claims CAN BE verified………..as can DavidH ‘s ……….for “history” is
        available to do just that……….BUT one has to make the effort to determine what
        the FACTS of this history ARE……….rather than accept, the “mythology” that
        is being told………for it can only be believed if one chooses to remain “ignorant”
        of the FACTS.

        http://www.thesportsmonitor.com

        Mr Root has made “claims” regarding his “performance” and “ranking” from the above named source……which lists “his results” for

        NFL, College Football, NBA and College Basketball…….so what are the FACTS regarding his performance?

        2011 NFL Season….32 picks required to qualify for ranking sides and totals………..Mr Roots ranking among the 35 people who WERE ranked.

        Mr Root had no ranking……nor was he listed as having “attempted” to compete……since he could not manage to “produce” the two picks a week required to meet the minimum qualification……..

        2011 College Football………minimum 40 picks required to compete.
        Mr Root had no ranking……nor was he listed as having “attempted” to compete……in the 30 people that were ranked, or actually TRIED to be.

        2011/12 College Basketball …..64 picks required……side and/or totals
        31 Ranked, of 60 plus that tried…….Mr Root not listed as having TRIED.

        2011/12 NBA…… 52 picks required for ranking……..with 20 being ranked…………Mr Root………not on list.

        In fact, Mr Root name and picks only appear as…..either those not intended for the contest or with less than the minimum’s required for the contest……with no way to distinguish as to what the intent of the picks were………( although his self proclaimed bio, which is posted here from a reason interview above, can provide a little insight into what this actually means? ) DavidH being the “exception” in this case.

        For those who have even the slightest connection to REALITY, the reason that the “tallest buildings” in Las Vegas are “casino’s”, should not be too difficult to figure out. And this TRUTH is one where the “consumer” actually has access to the “house advantage” that they face in seeking to beat the “odds”.

        The so called, “Sport’s advisory service”, is a confidence game, which preys on people, foolish enough to persist in the notion, that “probablility” can not only be “overcome”, but can be done consistantly in direct contradiction to “all available evidence”……..which is pretty stupid on it’s face……..so that the “potential customer” is either completely ignorant of what probability is, and/ or has already FAILED at doing for himself, what he now expects someone else to do for HIM. based on the CLAIM, that it can be done and has been done.

        An “intelligent person” might consider why and how those tall buildings exist and continue to be built………while Mr. Root’s, “service” is a small rented office which is “shared” with “other” services? ( again, DavidH being the exception. )

        BTW this only includes the “obvious questions” regarding the “evidence”……….which does not include the “means” by which these services operate……but there is a description, also posted here, before the “facts” regarding Mr. Root were blocked. ( censored )

    • GALT

      Actually Flash, we was the ‘employee” of a bookie, the “Mirage” if memory serves….
      although then he was Wayne Root……..his title and job function was “Sports Book Director” and “odds maker” where he attempted to set the “line” for “bets” offered by
      the casino.

      He then sold his “name” to Jim Feist, who runs a “sports betting service” and pretended to
      be able to “pick winners” against the “line” for various ‘sports’……..a skill which he
      did not have….and doesn’t really matter…….because, “sport’s betting services” are
      scams……..and at the time Jim Feist had eight different “tout’s” claiming to be able
      to beat the “spread”…..and the “compulsive gamblers” were simply passed from one to the other……….which if nothing else explains Mr. Root’s “moral grounding” as it regards
      “ripping people off” in the name of “profit”……

      He is not involved in either activity at the moment, nor has he been for some time….
      now he is simply a “failure”…….. ( at everything else he has attempted ) whose has
      yet to hit bottom……..although. from what he has said……..that could happen at any time.

      • DaveH

        No matter how hard you try to bring others down to your level, Galt, you will still be a worthless Socialist.

      • GALT

        Did you say something DavidH?

        Does “voluntary transaction” = scam or fraud?

      • GALT

        It would now seem that this site is “blocking posts” regarding the “subjects”
        character and claimed accomplishments………

  • RD

    Wow some of these post just blow me away at how indoctrinated some of you fools really are. Listen if your getting your news from CNN or msnbc then your an idiot to begin with. You need to start digging deeper and find out the truth before its to late. Hell we have long since gone over the cliff now they are about to dump us in the middle of the ocean without even a life raft. These politicians are nothing more than robber barons with a spending addiction. The more taxes they collect the more they spend giving [expletive deleted] away to the 50% of this country that is on the government tit. I think we need to goahead and go off of the so called fiscal cliff, give Obama everything he ask for and when he tanks the economy, he will finally have to own it!!! There will no longer be anyone to blame but the democrats, the media will no longer be able to protect and lie for them then the American people my finally wake up. I hate this and know it will be painful but may well save us in the long run. And as far as you idiots that are always bitching about our military, who the hell do you think provides the security for you to walk around everyday in ignorant bliss without having to worry about tyranny for now. If we stay on our current path you will find out how it feels to not be free because your beloved government will eventually take your freedom away from you. The sad thing is it will be your own fault, but you liberals will find someone else to blame I’m sure of that!!!!

    • Flashy

      “Listen if your getting your news from CNN or msnbc then your an idiot to begin with” …

      Best you read this before spouting off ….

      http://m.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/wp/2012/12/04/five-lessons-from-fox-news-roger-ailes-david-petraeus-conspiracy/

      • RD

        Flashy,
        I don’t need to read your indoctrinated crap. The stuff you read is why you have the opinions you have. You choose to read and believe the way you want without bothering to look at the big picture. You will figure it out when the country is broke and you are starving. I know for a fact that CNN and msnbc are liberal orginazations that cover for the libs no matter what they are corrupt and have an agenda, we all know it including you! Enough said!

    • DaveH

      You were on the right track until you derailed on the military imperialism, RD.
      Our military isn’t being used to defend our Freedom. They are being used (mostly unknowingly) to enrich Crony Capitalists at the rest of our expense. And they are increasing the number of enemies who would like to contribute to the downfall of our once great country.
      Read this book and learn what’s really going on:
      http://library.mises.org/books/John%20V%20Denson/A%20Century%20of%20War%20Lincoln,%20Wilson%20and%20Roosevelt.pdf

    • http://tlgeer.wordpress.com tlgeer

      And if our country does not go off the cliff will you admit it, or will you blame something else, or someone else, for your being wrong?

  • Ried

    I have a better suggestion.

    It is alleged the IRS tax code is approximately 72,000 pages.

    Provide me with a $250,000 grant, and I will write a new tax code of under 100 pages. Send the 72,000 code into the recycling bin, and offer the public a simple 100 page code to follow.

    • GALT

      Nah, you can’t beat the 999 plan or the post card return……

    • http://ontheramparts.wordpress.com drtch

      Whoever said the Federal Tax Code is 72,000 pages long has to have his eyes checked or his head examined. It lies in Title 26 of the Federal Code books, and couldn’t be any more than a few hundred pages, though it is lengthy and written in such a way to confuse and confound. And, incidentally, as a direct tax, it is unconstitutional. They get around this by pretending it is an excise tax. Very sly these bureaucrats!! ; O

  • NVRAT

    I agree. The GOP should tell the people that they have done everything they can and Obama refuses to meet and discuss real reform and it appears that he wants to take America over the cliff and there is nothing they can do to stop him. Let the rich pay and call it the Buffett-Obama Tax Plan.

    • http://tlgeer.wordpress.com tlgeer

      Except that it’s not the President that’s stonewalling, it’s the GOP. What would make them think that ANYONE would accept a proposal to change the tax laws without details of what they say they want to change? That is not realistic in the slightest way.

  • Fedup

    MD, the “half” that are moochers, morons and Marxists?”

  • JC

    “It’s Time For The GOP To Sacrifice Warren Buffett And The Billionaires”

    I love it! Get rid of the Corporament that passes for Congress and Co.
    Then we’ll see how long the Dems can live without it too.

    Outlaw lobbying altogether and any member of government found to be receiving favors or cash incentives from anyone…should be tried and jailed.
    :)

    • DaveH

      There is the matter of that pesky 1st Amendment.
      Better would be for the people to get educated and awaken to the fact that Government meddling in the Marketplace is the root of all Crony Capitalism.

  • MTR

    Wayne, you must deliver a printed copy of this proposal to Mr. Boehner and Mr. McConnell.

  • Right Brain Thinker

    Good rant, Wayne! After sorting out all the propaganda horsepucky that you so-called conservatives like to bury things in, I find a few things in what you say that I can agree with wholeheartedly, particularly :

    “Add a special tax increase (a huge one) to incomes over $100 million per year”

    That would certainly get the 1/10 of 1% to pay its fair share, particularly since they hold so much of the nation’s wealth in their vaults. I would suggest that we also levy large (if not quite “huge”) tax increases at the $5-$10-$15-etc million levels as well, with people who make more paying a larger share of their income. It’s called “progressive taxation”, Wayne, and it has worked before and 2/3 of the voters want it to return NOW!

    The GOP has blown it, Wayne. They are in no position to “demand” anything. Their blind obedience to Grover and The Pledge has done them in. They missed any opportunity they had and will now have to take their lumps.

    And your biggest shovel of horsepucky is perhaps saved for the last sentence, in which you state, “….the GOP should walk away, let Obama send the economy off the fiscal cliff and allow Obama to take 100 percent of the blame. It’s his economy. Let him own it”.

    Nice try, Wayne but since you are an odds maker with a really TERRIFIC outcome on the presidential election to boost your credibility, let me remind you that the latest figures on “blame” show that 53% of the public will blame the GOP if we go off the cliff while only 27% will blame Obama. That’s 2 to 1, Wayne—-are you really going to bet against those odds? And don’t forget that we still have quite a while before we reach the cliff’s edge AND the GOP is just saying dumber and dumber things as they squirm in their stupidity.

    I predict that the GOP will sink itself far enough that they will be blamed by at least a 3 to 1 margin if we go over the cliff. I myself am almost hoping that the GOP does listen to Grover rather than the people who elected them and DOES push us over the cliff—the country will survive—the cliff is not as bad as it is made out to be. The fear-mongers of the right have blown it up to be a big deal so they can once again blackmail O’Bama and hold the country hostage. It’s not going to work this time.

    And you have made Buffett your straw man here? He has already made his position clear—he thinks the rich should pay their fair share—all your ranting about what he may do is just horsepucky. Buffett WILL quietly pay more in taxes and WILL quietly continue to invest and make money on whatever he has left. He and his rich buddies did it when they paid at the 90% rate and they will do it now. He has made it abundantly clear that he thinks that way and you won’t fool anyone with half a brain by trying to beat up on him. And the “billion dollar fight” he’s engaged in? How is that any different than how all the plutocrats and corporations and corporate oligarchs behave when their interests are threatened? Buffett didn’t get rich by being all that different from the rest of the “fat cats”, just smarter.

    You’re grasping at straws, Wayne, just as you did with O’Bama vs. Romney. Look for a sure bet instead this time—Obama will win BIG, no matter what happens—the GOP will lose—bet on it.

    • DaveH

      RBT exposes himself as the Liberal Progressive that he is.
      Thank you, RBT.
      Your class warfare would be well-received in North Korea, RBT. Now, lights out:
      http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/dprk/dprk-dark.htm

      • DaveH

        Leaders love people like RBT who will happily pass out the Kool-Aid to those followers, who just don’t know any better, while the Leaders party hardy on their money.

      • Right Brain Thinker

        Dave is having a conversation with himself again. Is anyone listening?

      • DaveH

        Isn’t it time for you to start hunting for food, Lizard Brain?

  • Esther Danner

    Let’s have a wealth tax , say .005% of what your worth over $250,000. that way Mr. Buffet can pay a tax on the same billions each year.Just like I pay a tax on the same house each year.

    • Flashy

      A “wealth tax” would require another Constitutional Amendment (i believe).

      • GALT

        Nah, just another ruling by the S.Court…….from everything that comes in……to everything
        that is in………after all what “income is”…..is different for everyone…….so all that is required is a little imagination……..if “wages” can be income…..then there is no reason that
        “unnecessary wealth” should not be included.

  • 45caliber

    I personally don’t care if they tax the rich – as long as they tax ALL the rich. Buffet and others have no intention of paying more taxes and have the loop holes to insure they don’t. The way many profer – like Buffet – is to place all their profits in a tax-free foundation that they solely control.

    BUT … an economist recently pointed out that if the government was to take every penny anyone made over $50,000 as tax, it would run the government about two weeks. I don’t think that will keep the country from going over the cliff.

  • Peter

    Before I start, let me say that I am not a Republican or a Democrat. I find them both repulsive.

    The Republican party is dying because they have nothing to sell to the American people. The Democrats slogan should be, vote for me and I will give you free stuff.

    If you really want to change government, stop thinking like a democrat or a republican, look into the Fair Tax proposal. All 72,000 pages of the tax code would be thrown out the window and we would only be taxed on the money we spent.

    All of a sudden drug dealers and illegal aliens are paying taxes.

    More international companies would want to do business in the USA because there is no taxes. That means more jobs!

    Those international companies that are now doing business in the USA would need to buy products and services. That means more money for the government.

    My personal favorite reason is that it is FAIR and CLEAR. Its very easy to understand.

    Take a moment to go to this web site…. http://www.fairtax.org/

    • DaveH

      Especially read this page:
      http://www.fairtax.org/PDF/WhichComesFirst.pdf

      The Fair Tax is not Fair at all to the unwilling business people who will become Government Tax Collectors. And I suspect that it is just another of the Progressive scams that have been perpetrated on the American people by unscrupulous Leaders over the last 100 years, who really just want to get their foot in the door for a combination of Consumption Taxes and Income Taxes like they have in Europe. Leaders are always searching for new ways to extract as much as they can from the rest of us.

      • DaveH

        The Flat Tax Is Not Flat and the FairTax Is Not Fair:
        http://mises.org/daily/3389

      • Peter

        You and I both know there is going to be taxes. There is no getting away from that. I agree with you that having BOTH the Fair Tax and our current tax system would be a disaster.

        My argument is that the Fair Tax would be a better system than what we have now. Get rid of the estate tax, payroll tax, corporate tax, income tax as well as all other types of taxes. the only tax we would have is a sales tax on everything we purchased.

        With the “Financial Cliff” that everyone refers to on the horizon, it is going to become a necessity to make some drastic changes. What we have is not working.

        As far as the burden of small business owners becoming tax collectors, I don’t see this as a problem. The majority of transactions are done using plastic (debit or credit). Bits and bytes are moved around alerting financial institutions to move money from one account to another account. I can easily see money moved in a similar fashion. If there is an argument against that then handle it the same way that we handle a state sales tax.

      • DaveH

        If you read the Which Comes First link, Peter, you would know that they don’t really plan to do that.

      • DaveH

        Peter says — “If there is an argument against that then handle it the same way that we handle a state sales tax”.
        How cavalier, Peter. Forcing them to be the tax collectors for the State is also an unjust imposition on businesses.

  • momo

    WAR makes it sound like Buffet’s father gave young Warren all the advantages of his being a congressman. Did you know Howard Buffett was a REPUBLICAN? That he believed in a gold backed dollar? That he refused a congressional pay raise? Warren Buffet studied under Ben Graham at Columbia and worked for Graham for a time in New York before returning to Omaha to start his own business. Sure he probably used his father’s cache as a congressman to get some investors, but his success is due to his own hard work. Did anybody even hear of Buffett before the 1990′s? Unless you’re a diehard reader of investment books, I doubt it. I don’t like Buffett’s politics, but I admire his business success.

  • Norm

    Critics of the President’s budget charge that his proposals to roll back tax breaks for taxpayers with incomes over $250,000 would harm small businesses. In fact, only 8.9 percent of people with any small business income have incomes of over $250,000 and, thus, would even potentially be affected by these provisions. And that figure substantially overstates the percentage of people with small business income who would actually be affected by these provisions; for example, only 1.9 percent of people with such income currently are in a tax bracket with a rate higher than 28 percent. As a result, the percentage of people with small business income who would be affected by proposals to increase the top two tax rates or limit the value of itemized deductions to 28 percent of deductable expenses would be extremely small.
    Furthermore, even these estimates, from the Urban Institute-Brookings Institution Tax Policy Center, may overstate the impact of these provisions because they are based on the previous administration’s definition of “small businesses,” which includes investors in small businesses who have little or no role in managing them.
    Indeed, the vast majority of small business owners and their employees would benefit from proposals in the budget to cut taxes for middle-class taxpayers, such as extending the Making Work Pay tax credits enacted on a temporary basis in the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act. In addition, most small businesses and their employees are likely to benefit from non-tax proposals in the budget, particularly the President’s proposal to reform the health care system by expanding health insurance coverage and making health care more affordable.

    • DaveH

      So let me get this straight. It’s okay to help yourself to other peoples’ money, if they’re in the minority?
      Did I miss the qualifier in the Bible that said “Thou Shalt Not Steal — Unless you’re in the Majority”?

      • Norm

        Supporting your country is called patriotism.
        We did just fine in the Clinton era before Bush’s unfunded and illegal wars, unfunded Medicare part D, and cash bonuses for the big players.
        Where are all the Bush tax cut jobs?
        Let’s face it, if we as a country want to play “Imperial America” and have all the benefits that the government provides, we need to walk up to the bar and pay our tab. There’s no free lunch.
        If you want to live in the woods, home school your kids, raise your own food, and carry a gun at all times, then maybe Africa or South America is right for you.
        No taxes!

      • Nadzieja Batki

        But Norm you don’t want to support your country, you just want other people’s money to support the country.

      • Norm

        Nadzieja Batki
        Sir I’ve paid more than I’ve received. And I continue to do so.

      • Smilee

        Davy

        Even Christ advocated you pay your taxes and respect governmental authority, Do you really believe he would of done that if he regarded taxes as theft, it is not theft. You just hate government and authority and that is why you are such a miserable and greedy person

      • DaveH

        Norm says — “Supporting your country is called patriotism”.
        That’s funny. A Liberal Progressive playing the “patriotism” card.
        Manipulate somebody else, Norm. It doesn’t work on me.
        Taking money from unwilling donors is called Theft, Norm, no matter how many of you thieves vote for it.

      • DaveH

        Sleepee. Wake up. It’s time for a lesson.
        “I have never understood why it is greed to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else’s money” — Thomas Sowell.

        I’m Greedy, Sleepee, for not wanting people to be Forced to pay for things they don’t want?
        But you’re NOT Greedy for wanting to Force people to pay for things YOU want?
        Only one of the 7 dwarfs could manage that stretch.

        http://townhall.com/columnists/thomassowell/2007/01/23/the_greed_fallacy

  • Norm

    WASHINGTON (AP) — Americans prefer letting tax cuts expire for the country’s top earners, as President Barack Obama insists, while support has declined for cutting government services to curb budget deficits, an Associated Press-GfK poll shows. Fewer than half the Republicans polled favor continuing the Bush-era tax cuts for the wealthy.
    There’s also a reluctance to trim Social Security, Medicare or defense programs, three of the biggest drivers of federal spending, the survey released Wednesday found. The results could strengthen Obama’s hand in his fiscal cliff duel with Republicans, in which he wants to raise taxes on the rich and cut spending by less than the GOP wants.

    • DaveH

      At least be honest about it, Norm. Rather than calling it a “tax cut”, call it what it really is — Taking Less from the victim.

      • Smilee

        Your interpretation (spin) not the real one

      • DaveH

        More nonsense from Sleepee.

  • http://wildeyguns.com The Christian American

    There is an alternative to raising taxes. CUT SPENDING. Because politicians are well versed in being shrewd and cunning and not responsibility and morality, we start to negotiate their tax raises as if they were a given. They threaten to cut our heads off and we’ll be satisfied letting them cut off our toes. There is a relationship between sheep and men. When sheep feel threatened they band together into a circle. As long as the ones on the outer circle are being eaten, the ones on the inner circle feel safe. How many people tell their congressman NO. We will not except new taxes. As far as that goes reduce the taxes your imposing on us now or YOU ARE FIRED.

    Why do we get into these conversations as if they made some kind of sense. You want to talk? Let’s talk about restoring our Constitution, getting our finances in order, putting the proper reigns on our employees. Would transparency in government reveal to us politicians are nothing but a batch two bit thieves? Let’s get at then. The same people that are sinking our boat are doing nothing but moving the deck chairs, and we negotiate with them as if they’re doing us a favor. Talk about war? Read “War is a racket” byUSMC Major General Smedley Butler, a two time winner of the Congressional medal of honor. Talk about taxes? Read “Not yours to give” by Davy Crocket. Talk about more war? read “The War Prayer” by Mark Twain. They’re on the net. Considering the course we’re on, when people realize where we’re headed, read and believe John 3:i6

    • Flashy

      “CUT SPENDING”

      OK CA…specifically..what programs and how much? C’mon….tell us. Meaningfulo enough to replace the lost revenues from not raising the highest tax rate …

      Exactly…..you can’t do it without hitting the Middle Class, lower incomes, vets and senior citizens. Not to mention our infrastructure needs, R&D and disaster programs.

      • Motov

        Start by ending foreign “aide”, get rid of obamascare once that starts it’ll make sucking sounds, end TSA, (Reverse the patriot act) give that back to the private sector, get rid of the department of energy, (Carter implemented that) department of education (belongs to the states anyways) for starters

      • DaveH

        Well we could start with the Unconstitutional Department of Education, the Department of Energy, the Department of Housing and Urban Development, the Department of Labor, the Department of Agriculture, the Department of Health and Human Services……….

        We could cut the Federal Government back to spending 7% of GDP (instead of the 24% of GDP it now spends), which would still be more than twice as much Federal Government as our ancestors got by with in 1900.

      • http://wildeyguns.com The Christian American

        In the history of the world there was always turmoil when the people had attempted to have three class society. The “upper” class wants serfs while the lower class lacks the inititative to join the upper class. The middle class is the target of both.

      • George E

        A good start would be to eliminate several federal government departments, like energy and education. On the revenue side, if the government would open federal lands to increased oil and gas exploration and production that would bring in more revenue while helping to keep prices down and reducing our balance of trade deficit.

      • Flashy

        OK..eliminate departments. What programs in those departments would be staying…or with the elimination of the departments, the programs as well would be eliminated? DaveH…please stay away from this post. it’s a thinking post of discussion. All you’ll do is paste another Mises link and rant about your inanities…neither are helpful

      • Smilee

        DaveH says:
        December 6, 2012 at 11:29 am

        They are not unconstitutional. Don’t you think conservatives would have challenged that in court and let the Supreme court decide it if that was the case, they don’t because they know that it is not constitutional and you I guess you did not get that message. The Constitution put limits in the form of definition of what congress can do and it does not say that they cannot do it or define its size as you so often do in error. Article 1 sec 8 paragraph one says Congress may (amongst other things) lay taxes for defense and the general welfare and it does not set a limit on the size of either and this is the clause Roberts cited to uphold Obamacare and I’m sure you think that is big government and it might be but it is not unconstitutional which you and so many conservatives want us to believe and it is pure malarkey and that I believe is only supported by all the propaganda sites you are constantly referring us to which keeps all whom believe it in the dark and out of touch with reality. You really are a joke.

      • DaveH

        Flashman says — “DaveH…please stay away from this post. it’s a thinking post of discussion”.
        Then why are you here, Flashman?

      • DaveH

        Sleepee says — “Article 1 sec 8 paragraph one says Congress may (amongst other things) lay taxes for defense and the general welfare and it does not set a limit on the size of either ……… You really are a joke”.
        For those who believe the Liberal Lie. Federalist #41 was James Madison’s response to those who worried that the General Welfare reference would lead to misinterpretation of the Constitutional limits on Federal Power. James Madison is generally known as the Father of the Constitution:
        http://www.constitution.org/fed/federa41.htm

        Let’s see. Who should we believe, the Liberal Progressive Sleepee, or James Madison?
        I wish you were a joke, Sleepee, but you are much more insidious than that.

      • Smilee

        DaveH says:
        December 6, 2012 at 10:58 pm

        Sleepee says — “Article 1 sec 8 paragraph one says Congress may (amongst other things) lay taxes for defense and the general welfare and it does not set a limit on the size of either ……… You really are a joke”.

        YOU’RE THE JOKE DAVIE, AS I SAID (AND YOU CUT OUT those words IN YOUR CUT AND PASTE) you IGNORED JUDGE ROBERTS DECISION on the interpretation of this portion of the constitution He SAID Obamacare was constructional AND I AGREE WITH IT and a judges word makes reality not yours or Madison’s opinions whom have no weight in law only in simple minds like yours.

        For those who believe the Liberal Lie. Federalist #41 was James Madison’s response to those who worried that the General Welfare reference would lead to misinterpretation of the Constitutional limits on Federal Power. James Madison is generally known as the Father of the Constitution:
        http://www.constitution.org/fed/federa41.htm

        The federalist papers are not a part of the Constitution, the fact he said this indicates he was worried it would be interpreted as written and it has been, so you are therefore proven wrong as Madison’s opinion is just that and does not determine in this case the founders intent and so the courts have ruled that way as Roberts did in Obamacare, sorry but this just proves how wrong you are on this and on most things as well

        Let’s see. Who should we believe, the Liberal Progressive Sleepee, or James Madison? I believe a Roberts is a conservative and that is his opinion, I merely agreed he got it right
        I wish you were a joke, Sleepee, but you are much more insidious than that.

        When you get it wrong you get nasty and stupid and you have proven yourself stupid in taking the opinions of a founder not the Supreme Court Judge opinions which carries the weight of power to be binding and yours and Madison’s which does not. When you do not like something you see it as liberal or a joke and then resort to stupid and nasty words rather than manning up and admit you are wrong, that arrogance is what makes you the real joke.

  • Norm

    WASHINGTON — Conservative commentator and Weekly Standard editor Bill Kristol said Sunday the Republican Party should accept new ideas, including the much-criticized suggestion by Democrats that taxes be allowed to go up on the wealthy.

    “It won’t kill the country if we raise taxes a little bit on millionaires,” he said on “Fox News Sunday.” “It really won’t, I don’t think. I don’t really understand why Republicans don’t take Obama’s offer.”

  • Motov

    You know full well they will continue spending like there is no tomorrow,…Some habits are tough to break

    • Doc Sarvis

      That is what the Red states send them there to do.

      • Motov

        Blue states are just as guilty if not more so,…Government has an “Anti-King Midas Touch”
        Everything they touch turns into a black hole that sucks more money from the tax payers,…never to be seen or heard from again

    • http://wildeyguns.com The Christian American

      The shrewed politicians that are running the country no full well that if they present a ridiculous budget and then cut it back they will be able to say how they
      “saved” money, and the people will buy it.

      • Motov

        Yup they will show you how pretty they wrapped the same feces,…and that’s really what we get,… the same fecal matter as before,…..

  • Jim

    Of course, Beohner would need to have actual PRINCIPLES before he would do something like this. Not gonna happen.

    • Steve E

      Nope, not with Beohner.

  • Motov

    Anytime they perceive more money they think more spending, silly congress

  • wog1

    Thanks for the info on Buffet. Now how about Soros, I am sure you can find as much.

  • http://RootforAmerica.com Wayne Allyn Root

    To NC,

    There were no tax cuts for small business from Obama. One of the many great lies he told in Presidential debates. I’ve already commented on that lie in a prior PersonalLiberty commentary. I don’t know a single small business owner who believes he’s ever gotten a tax cut from Obama. Not one. Our taxes are way way way too high. He counted extensions of Bush tax cuts as his…and double counted each time he re-extended each year. Typical lying politician.

  • war111

    To Flashy,

    Please stop lying and slandering/libeling me. I’m not a “bookie”…and never have been in my life. What a stupid comment. I have built a successful business that analyzes and predicts the winners of sporting events. Over 3 million Americans have paid for my advice. It is the same as being a stock analyst for Merrill Lynch or running a hedge fund- except I do it for sports.

    Secondly it is just one small part of my career. I write books, give business speeches all over the world, am a spokesman for multiple companies, a political commentator and columnist, and a television producer. Just FYI…I am a producer of the #1 show on Travel Channel- one of my many careers.

    I have earned my success through education, hard work, creativity and mostly be being RELENTLESS. That’s how you succeed in a dog-eat-dog business world.

    I respect people that succeed because I know it is the toughest thing to do in life. I want to reward, not punish those who do.

    I also know no other system works. Try it in a classroom. Give all the “A students a C. And then give those grades you took away from them to all the F students. Raise their grades to a C. Now everyone is “equal.” That’s “fair” in Obama’s world.

    Except its a horrible failure. No A student would ever study or work hard ever again if they knew they were going to be punished and have their A taken away.

    And no F student would ever pull himself out of his or her drug and party stupor…and learn discipline…if they knew they could party and drink all day, never study, watch game shows…and still be awarded the same C as the A student.

    The classroom would collapse into a scene from Caligula. Result: Decadence, dependency, and pure stupidity.

    So goes America under Obama.

    • Jess

      So you tell people who to bet on? Wow, that’s tough. Ever get your hands dirty? Ever work so hard that your back hurt for days? Do you know what a shovel is? Do you know how to change a tire? What was your first job? Did you get it yourself or was it given to you because you knew someone?

      So you’re saying that you don’t want to pay taxes because basically you don’t benefit from them? All of your hard earned tax money goes to worthless slobs at the bottom of the dollar chain. These people do nothing and feel they are entitled to FREE Money that you earned. They sit home all day, eat bon bons and watch TV. That’s your thinking right?

      Do you fly much with your career? Who do you think pays for the airport? Some comes from airlines, yes, but some comes from tax dollars. What about roads, I am correct that you use Limousins and taxi cabs? What about the roads they drive on? A lot of that money comes from gasoline taxes. Something everyone with a car pays, not the just the rich. But lets get to the heart of things, entitlements. In reality those entitlements that you claim you pay to keep lazy people alive most likely protect you. Someone with no money whatsoever will eventually become very desperate just to eat. Add in a kid or too and they get extremely desperate to eat and feed their children. What happens when people get that desperate? They do things they wouldn’t normally do, like steel and kill just to get food. So what do you think would happen if these people didn’t have anything. They just might come after YOU. Crime rates would go up even higher than they are now. Crime is bad now basically because of drugs. People steel to get money for drugs. Think what it would be like if people couldn’t eat either. So in a way your money is going towards your own protection. Of course police and firefighters are also paid by your tax dollars. I would venture to guess that you yourself are not brave enough to run into a burning building when everyone else is running out, are you? I can admit that I’m not either, so those that do should be compensated for their efforts.

      As of 10/15/2012 there were 4,300,000 people on welfare. 46,700,000 on food stamps. 19.6% of people on welfare are on for more than 5 years. 26.9% are on for 2-5 years, 19.3% are on for 1-2 years, 15.2% are on for 7-12 months, and 19% are on for less than 7 months. So most of those that do use welfare do end up getting off of it and earning their own way.

      If you make $250,000 a year and still can’t make a go of things and MUST keep every penny you earn, then you must not know how to manage your money. To me, your statement makes you sound like a crybaby.

    • Nadzieja Batki

      jess, you should have picked a better audience to listen to your “what a poor little victim I am “. We are not buying it.

      • Jess

        I’m claiming to be a victim, the author of this article is claiming to be a victim. He benefits from his tax dollars as much as anyone else does. Plus he seems to have no clue how to manage his own money.

    • Flashy

      Mr. Root…OK, you never took a wager in your life. You commented and gave advice on covering the spread. A ‘tout” …

      As for your credentials…with me, those and a buck 65 will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks. If i cited my creds, how far would that get you? I can walk across the office and have you sit with a high ranked VP and you’d end up wondering if he could chew gum and walk at the same time. Or i could walk down the hall and another VP who is as crass, back stabbing, double dealing rascal as one can imagine. i’d much rather have lunch with the rascal…he knows his stuff and thinks.

      when you write an article like the one today, be aware this is a rough and tumble forum. one of the roughest I’ve experienced..and i’ve written on a few over the years. There ain’t no punches pulled on this site. Which makes it fun, and educational. Both personal as well as in my area of work.

      You have a choice Mr. Root. Write claptrap as today’s article was…make predictions about an election which no one with any sanity would think would come out as the ‘prediction’ forecast etc.. and expect, in this forum, to be roughed up.

      One of the reasons this forum is so popular in my opinion… it is rough and you can’t get away with inanities and insanity without being exposed and beaten on. I don’t think Mr. Livingston would want a boring staid forum.

      It’s Ok to write controversy…Myers, Livingston, etc come to mind. And the articles are crituqed and beaten up some. But not much. or you can be lumped in with Crystal, write claptrap and thoughtless baseless trash, and be ripped and slapped around.

      You step into this forum, no quarter asked, none given… it is not last one standing, it’s last one alive.

      • Right Brain Thinker

        Semper Fi, Flash

        As one of the “rougher” USMC slogans goes, “Kill ‘em all and let God sort ‘em out”, which may also be appropriate for PLD.

        Or, if Wayne prefers, another one is “Pain is weakness being driven from the body” (that goes for “mental pain” as well). Be stronger, Wayne.

    • GALT

      Hey Wayne……someone knows you……

      “I worked for Wayne Root, let me tell you about it”.
      The Real Wayne Root

      ——————————————————————————–

      I worked for Wayne Root for the football season in 2001. Since that time I do my own capping. I may not have made much money but boy did I learn that you want to stay as far away from an operation like this as you can. Here’s what I learned.
      1. His operation is a boiler room. You are given a script. You sell up front then one day after the sale the reloaders work on getting the customer to sign up for Wayne’s eight other level’s of games. We lied about Wayne’s record all the time. Unless you told a potential client that Wayne hit 70% or higher you couldn’t get any money.As soon as we finished selling someone for Wayne Root then he was handed to another salesman for one of Wayne’s five other companies. The picks were losing so bad during the four months I was there that guys were giving out what they liked. It was the only way to stop a mutiny.
      2. Wayne was a bigger liar than the salesman. If he had a newspaper guy on the phone he would say stuff that was totally untrue. He once told a guy that we had over 100 salesman at that time. I counted desks and office staff. It was 45 people.
      3. He wrote and published a book within the last year. I talked to someone at the Gambler’s Warehouse last month and asked how many copies were sold nationally. His answer was they had three copies of the b ook a month ago and still had three copies. I said “could he have sold more than a thousand copies nationally?”. His answer was, “probably not”. I’m sure Wayne will never give out figures on the number of copies sold.
      4. He switches TV stations in which he puts his 30 minute infomertial on Saturday mornings every year. Here’s the reason is he isn’t getting the desired results? Whether it’s WGN, Spike TV or a national cable sports network, it never is enough to make him happy. Unless he gets on ESPN he’s not going to make enough money to pay for the outragious price it costs to produce and buy time.
      5. He doesn’t even bet the games he gives to his clients. Once in an interview he even admitted it. Whay would anyone in their right mind pay someone for selections they didn’t feel strongly enough to bet? They would have to be a moron and be totally new to betting or using a tout.
      Wayne Root is a pathological liar who loved himself. He’s not an idiot and can sell a deal and make things happen for a while. I think eventually his company will crumble and he will try to move on to something else. Anyone who buys his stock should have their head examined. It’s at .04 cents for a reason. It could be delisted any day now.
      -Ex Wayne Root employee
      ——————————————————-
      source: gambling911.com

      • GALT

        Then there’s the guy at reason.com

        Wayne Allyn Root is a failure. He’ll tell you as much. He’s “the world’s most successful failure,” a man who stumbled from job to job, succeeding at none of them, before he found the one that made him a millionaire. He used to be a Republican, then decided to become the Libertarian Party’s presidential nominee. When he fell short, he threw his votes to Bob Barr and became the ex-congressman’s running mate. What Wayne Root wants, Wayne Root gets. Sort of.

        The little attention that the LP’s ticket has received has centered, mostly, on Barr. The evolution of a Republican drug warrior into a Libertarian war horse is an odd, twisty story. Root’s story is almost as entertaining. He is, in his own words, “the world’s most successful failure.” His first general-interest book (he’s written six of them, most about the art of gambling) was titled The Joy of Failure, and it revealed how he’d basically talked his way into a glamorous career with a bullish sales plan papering over his lack of qualifications.

        As Root tells it, he tried, and failed, at thirteen different careers. He was rejected from law school. He failed as a realtor four different times, blowing tens of thousands of dollars on brochures for properties no one bought. He managed a Manhattan restaurant, then “got bored and quit.” He became an entertainment agent, signing one client, and snagging him one job—in six months. His biggest innovation was “Ivy League Home Cleaners,” a maid service staffed with college graduates, none of whom, quite understandably, wanted to become maids.

        Root’s breakthrough came when he realized what he really wanted: to be a sports prognosticator. He decided to become “greatest sports prognosticator in the world,” officially, sending out hundreds of press releases with that tagline, assuring reporters that they had to know about Wayne Allyn Root. Thanks to a few newspapers with feature holes to fill, the P.R. offensive paid off. Root founded a company (which failed) and wrote a book on risk (also a failure), but every little piece of credibility got him closer to TV personality status. Once he made it on TV, he was in: No one could take his fame away from him. His formula for success, he discovered, was something he could bottle and give to everybody. He taught it to his wife when she put on 80 pounds during her pregnancy. “She started living my program. The pounds started to melt off!”

        With all of that behind him, how could Wayne Root not get into politics, the domain of district attorneys and trial lawyers and promotion-seeking chiefs of staff? “My entire life has been a PERFECT preparation for politics,” Root told the Gambling Newswire in 2005. “I’ve spent the last 20 years giving interviews with the media. I’m on national TV more than any politician in the state of Nevada!” (This was before the still-mystifying triumph of Sen. Harry Reid.) In 2005, Root published a sort of sequel to his first self-help tome dubbed Millionaire Republican, telling readers that “thinking like a Republican,” taking risks and cutting throats, was the surest path to success.

        Some sections of the book didn’t hold up so well. “This professional prognosticator,” Root wrote then, “believes that the GOP will dominate American politics (on all levels) for the foreseeable future.” But by mid-2006, Root was telling Republicans that they were throttling their message and their voters by building up big government, and by cracking down on gamblers. By early 2007, he was exploring his Libertarian Party bid. And by the time he took the stage with Bob Barr, on a national political ticket at last, Root was crowing about making his old party irrelevant, for reasons no other Libertarian had thought of. Like:

        “There are 50 million poker players in this country, and 12 million online poker players. For the first time, they have a candidate they can support!”

        And:

        “I am the first small businessman to run on a national ticket!”

    • GALT

      and this from another “local” fan…..

      12. OMG, a reference to Wayne Allyn Root
      Somehow I missed that the first time.

      “Mr. Barr’s running mate, Wayne Allyn Root, a sports-betting entrepreneur and resident of greater Las Vegas, says their campaign is perfectly suited for his home state, citing Nevada’s low taxes, frontier spirit and premium on personal freedom.

      “We’re all about turning America into a great big Nevada,” Mr. Root said. “Nevada proves the model works.”

      Root is a local laughingstock. He’s a blowhard TV tout, giving picks on sporting events. Last year his “Play of the Decade” lost by something like 50 points. I’ll tell you what it was, Colorado at home getting about 4 points from Missouri. Look up that result if you want a belly laugh. I wonder if anyone will bring that up during the campaign?

      He also writes frequent letters to the editor on political topics, with far right wing lunacy. I had no idea he was Barr’s running mate.

  • Motov

    When has OhBozo ever said the truth?

  • Doc Sarvis

    Restoring the tax rate to what the wealthy paid in the largely prosperous Clinton years is what President ran on and got elected on among other policy positions he holds. In fact, that was one of the dominant debates the American people assessed. The American people as a whole agree with President Obama’s position on raising the tax rate on the top 1-2%. Even a clear majority of Republicans agreed with that position according to exit polls.

    • George E

      Doc,

      So long as the debate is over what’s fair, the debate may never end, especially so long as it can be framed as a rich vs. poor issue. Few people will vote against raising someone else’s tax rates, especially if it means leaving their rates and benefits alone. Personally, I think that’s the wrong debate. I think we ought to debate what will help the economy and what won’t.

      Personally, I believe income tax rates can be raised 5% on the ultra wealthy without too much impact on the economy. (Having said that, I don’t particularly like that “solution” when it’s obvious the government is wasting the money they get now hand-over-fist, so I don’t favor giving them more of anyone’s money.) However, unless we can come up with a solution, like the one Wayne proposes in this article, to ensure that small and medium sized business owners aren’t caught up in these rate increases as well, the economy will most likely get dragged down, and now just isn’t the time for that since the economy is just barely growing as it is. My opinion is protect small and medium sized business owners from these rate increases, and let her rip if that’s what it takes to get the Dems to agree to actually start cutting government spending to bring the budget under control. Otherwise, we’re going to go over the fiscal cliff anyway because the credit rating agencies are going to downgrade the US government credit rating again and that’s likely to drive up interest rates. When that starts happening we’ll go into debt all the faster because we’ll have to borrow or print the additional money to pay this added interest. This process will continue like a snowball rolling downhill until it completely drowns the government in debt and then, we’ll get the opportunity to start all over again from an insolvent and severely indebted situation. At that point, we can all give up on getting Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, etc,, not to mention funding a sound national defense. It would be much better to get spending under control now rather than waiting for the worst scenario to happen, which isn’t very far off.

  • Fred A. Klanke

    I for one am sick and tired of hearing everyone say, Social Sercuirty and Medical is an entilement. I and millions like me have paid into this trust for many years. That my friends is not an entilement. It was set up as a trust so when we got to retirement age we would all have sercruity and not have to live off of others. Lots get real, cut spending by not funding counties that hate us, that’s were they need to cut. I say let them hate us for free, why would we want to pay them to hate us. Just doesn’t add up!!

    • http://wildeyguns.com The Christian American

      No one is ENITLED to fruits to another mans labor: PERIOD. To do it is legalized theft, if that were possible. This is called involuntary socialism: A system of government where the government takes the wealth of the people and distibutes some of it for it’s own gain. It turns people into begging paupers. Up until I believe 1910, the only source on income came thru the Customs Dept to the Federal government. This came from excise taxes and duties. We were States, not a central government.

  • carlee44

    If you allow obama leeway to do what he wants and the economy tanks, then who do you think the majority of people will blame?answer, not obama.

    • Fred A. Klanke

      That is what needs to happen, maybe, just maybe that will make people wake up to what he is trying to do too this country.

    • Jess

      Bush was allowed to do what he wanted and the economy tanked, Who Got blamed? Bush did.

  • Glen Teel

    Obama will not take the blame for anything and will blame the republicans. In my opinion he is a Musilim here to destroy the u.s. He is such a jurk.

  • Jess

    “An income of $250,000 to $500,000 is hardly rich, and we need our money.”
    Seems to me you have a hard time managing your money. What if you have to live on the average American salary of about $50,000 like I do?

    • Paul Wells

      That would seem logical, if you are a doctor, or a lawyer, or someone else highly compensated with wages. Alas, unfortunately subchapter ‘S’ corporations, sole proprietorships, as well as partnerships, and other small businesses usually just file individual tax returns with a schedule C. Their income might be say, 400K, which seems like a lot, but they employe 3 people, pay health care, for electricity, rent, etc. When you break it all down, to tax them higher would be a gross unfairness, but of course that all gets lost in the wealth redistribution shuffle, that Obummer is so fond of.

      • Jeff

        If you are self-employed and your gross receipts are $400,000, your overhead (rent and salaries) is probably $200,000. After your personal deductions (mortgage interest, etc.) are subtracted, your actual taxable income is probably $150,000. That’s why the “Joe the Plumber” stuff in ’08 was so idiotic. Plumbers don’t make $250,000. If a plumbing company grosses $250,000, the taxable income of the owner is likely less than half that amount. They’re hardly in the same category as a corporate executive whose salary is $250,000 or $400,000.

      • Smilee

        S Corps, LLC’s and partnerships need to file their own tax forms but do not pay any taxes ever, it is often referred to as a pass through tax form as it only determines your personal income, that is the money you take out of these bushiness for you personal use and then you are issued a K1 form (USED AS similar to a W-2) to include that amount with your personal taxes and pay taxes on that amount as personal income and it is not business income but you do not file a schedule C unless you are in a sole proprietorship and then you only file a personal tax form not a business tax form. Taxes on taxable income (not gross which is larger) over $250.000.00 of small business persons is only 3% of the personal income tax forms filed and this tax increase would only affect these people

    • Nadzieja Batki

      So you want to take away the money that someone makes of $250,000 +. Simple question is as to why you didn’t study and work to earn the same amount and more?

      • Jess

        I have a hard time feeling sorry for anyone making over $250,000, especially with a crybaby statement like, We need our money.” I’m not saying it’s 100% correct to tax them more just because they make more. I’m saying that he said “We need our money”. To me that says he can’t manage his money. I make just under $50,000 a year and have everything I want out of life, plenty to eat, a nice car to drive, entertainment, and a nice house to live in. Nothing has ever been handed to me. I’ve worked for EVERYTHING I have. I’ve done dirty jobs and I’ve had office jobs. I strive to do better everyday. But yet, I’m not complaining. I think we should just go over the cliff and let the ALL the tax cuts expire. It might be a little tough for a while, I might have to give up a vacation or two, but you know what, I’ll manage because I know how to live within my means.

        We all benefit from government programs in some way shape or form, either directly or indirectly. So we should all have to pay taxes and we all do in some way or another. However, the income tax was set up to protect 2 groups of people, the wealthy and the poor. For the poor it’s easy, they don’t pay income tax, the wealthy have to work a little harder for their tax break, they have to find the loop holes in the law, which there are plenty. I’d like to see a flat tax rate. If you earn under $25,000 a year you pay zero, if your earn $25,001 or more a year you pay 10%. No deductions at all. No deductions for kids, houses, charity, or hiding money.

        A co-worker and I make exactly the same wage for exactly the same amount of work. She has 3 kids and a house, I have no kids and rent. She pays less in tax than me simply because she chose a different lifestyle. Why?

      • Karolyn

        Nadzieja – Do you? Get real! Not everybody has the makeup to earn a large salary, nor does everybody really want to. To me it matters more what I do than how much I make. The point being made is that people live very well on a lot less than $250,000 per year!

  • Thomas Martin

    Yes. I say lets go over the cliff…The way I see it is several fold: 1. Reduce the congress and house of reps salaries by 50% including their benifits…2. In that position, include the president and his staff salaries as well. 3. Include also all the retired politicians in that proposals…why not they all shared in screwing up our social structure…4. Let everyone pay including Obama’s 47% excluding retirees on Social security. Why? It is their damn country to…They should help pay for it…

    Finally, for all you younger folks who want to reduce the retirees benefits remember who raised you, cuddled you when you were depressed, loved you unconditionally when you did wrong, took care of you when you were sick, PAID for your expensive education so you could earn 4 times what we earned when we paid for our own education, and now have no jobs but continue to work any job we can to get buybecause we prefer to to continue to pay our way… You younger folks want to BITCH! Common on your problem is your just damn spoiled…

    • Paul Wells

      Nice idea, but I don’t see items 1 through 4 ever coming to fruition. Congress will NEVER cut their own salaries, not even if guns were pointed at their heads!

    • Motov

      To “fix” Social Security is easy, make every politician use the system we are all stuck with,
      Take their ritzy retirement package they voted for themselves (It’s our money anyways) dump those funds into Social Security, and I’ll bet we will see improvements on how they handle SS.

  • Charlie R

    Taxing the Super Rich is a great idea but that will not satisfy Obamas social justice objectives. Besides, Obama still needs the SUPER RICH like BUFFET to fund his ancillary needs like the up coming inauguration.
    Obama is Smart and has positioned himself perfectly in the Cat Bird seat on this tax issue. He wins two ways;

    First: Obama wants to go over the Fiscal Cliff (FC) because that will engage automatic tax increases across the board. That means middle income families will get nailed too. So Obama wins in getting more taxes from all. And, the military/defense is also cut.

    Second: Obama wins again because he will “blame” the tax increases on the Republicans and clueless Americans will believe this socialistic “Pied Piper liar.

    A general tax increases will tank the economy , cause a deeper recession and generate hardships for Americans that are all part of Obamas agenda of going “FORWARD” with “Fundamentally Changing America”.

  • Chris Condon

    America’s minorities have been blindly supportive of the Democratic Party for decades. The economy will tank during Obama’s second term, unless of course it tanks in what little is left of his first term. It would not then surprise me to see minorities get restless and listen to free-market alternatives. The Democratic Party has spent huge amounts of the taxpayers’ money on government programs ostensibly to help minorities. Unfortunately, very little of this has ever trickled down to the man in the street. For a while, the proponents of big government could ask minorities to be patient. But if the pie-in-the-sky day that minorities have been waiting for for 50 years has not come by now, it is safe to say that it will never come unless fundamental assumptions are reexamined. The most fundamental assumption that must be questioned is the belief that capitalism exploits the common man and government is his wise and kindly savior and benefactor.

  • Ann

    This was my Idea and I put it out there 3 days ago. The repubs need to let Obummer have his way for one year and let the nuts fall where they may.. i am will to go on bread and water for one year just to watch Obummer fail..

    • eddie47d

      Are you Mitch McConnell lite or just a copy cat?

      • Charlie R

        No Eddie47 she is not and you know better…. Ann is just emulating what the democrats did in the last two years of the Bush administration, and you apparently do not recognize the similarity.

      • eddie47d

        Demanding failure is not an option!

      • Charlie R

        Eddie 47 you are not getting the point ….. The democrats, during the last two years of Bush’s administration, stonewalled and scuttled his presidency as much as they could, and along with the news media, were very successful in tearing him down making the election of a democrat possible. That recession you all blame on Bush started under a democrat controlled senate and house. (Remember Barney Frank and Chris Dodd)
        OBAMA continues policies that are detrimental to the American growth and prosperity.
        Obama has four more years going “FORWARD” to continue his policies that have failed in his first form years.As the man said: “You ain’t seen nothing yet”

  • ToughGuy1

    Warren and Grover ought to get together with Barack and Timmy and get a brain?

  • Chris

    Yes, Wayne is right………”BEFORE” taxes are raised on ANYONE, Uncle Sam needs to look at ways to CUT SPENDING! And no………not by messing with Social Security or Medicare either……they should not even be LOOKING at those programs. I’ve seen waste when I was a federal government employee….things purchased that weren’t really necessary. For one, they could cut grants that are stupid. They could cut “white coat welfare”…….funding the costs of the same experiments over and over again. They could cut giving away money to other countries when we have AMERICAN-BORN citizens right here in the United States who are STARVING or victims of natural disasters who need that financial help. They could cut the cost of decent law-abiding citizens who must fund with their hard-earned tax dollars the scum in prisons by starting to execute murderers, rapists, and drug pushers who, without a doubt, have committed those crimes………we can’t win the war on drugs or crime when those who commit these acts go to CLUB PRISON; if the fear of execution does not deter one from committing such crimes, then “sayonara”! They could stop immigration until they financially get a handle on solving the problems of the poor in this country instead of letting foreigners into the United States to “ride the gravy train”. It is sickening that they are ALL SO STUPID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • http://ontheramparts.wordpress.com drtch

      Agreed, Chris, but FIRST we should cut Defence and Intelligence, which gobble up Billions, for which we receive very little for our money. I would also suggest we dissolve the Dept. of Homeland Insecurity and FEMA.

  • http://tlgeer.wordpress.com tlgeer

    You are all missing the point. These so-called debt ceiling compromises are illegal. Congress does not have the right to even consider NOT paying the funds that have been run up because Congress already approved to pay them.

    Look up Perry v United States, and actually READ what the Justices has to say about whether or not Congress has the right to even consider not paying our legal debts. I can tell you that Congress does not, in any way, have that right. And it is written clearly in this US Supreme Court ruling.

    I just started a petition on the White House petitions site, We the
    People. Will you sign it? http://wh.gov/5ksN

    • GALT

      Okay, having looked it up……the only thing you are required to read is the date.

      1935 which, like the “constitution” itself, renders it meaningless…….

      So once again……………………..

      http://www.supremelaw.org/authors/freeman/freeman4.htm

      Saying that something is in the “constitution” and a there is a decision regarding it, that
      has been made by the “supreme court” with a date prior to 1938, is as relevant as citing the bible as a source………it is legally and intellectually irrelevant!

      To be more blunt, each and every time the “constitution” is raised to make a point,
      here or in any other venue, by ANYONE………in terms of meaning or relevance…..

      Is the same as having a fair and balanced discussion regarding the existence of
      gravity……..with you being on the wrong side.

  • JeffH

    Speaker Boehner is determined to cut a deal with President Obama to hike taxes and keep spending skyrocketing.

    Representatives Amash and Huelskamp were removed from the Budget Committee, which happens to be chaired by Paul Ryan.

    One has to be curious if we’re witnessing a little payback, since both representatives opposed the Ryan budget.

    Both men realize we have to address spending problems now – not wait decades to balance the budget.

    What were the reasons given for Boehner’s “purge”?

    Not voting with Republican leadership enough. In other words, being “too principled” and actually believing in the talking points GOP candidates do their best to mouth on the campaign trail.

    And rank-and-file House Republicans better get in line. Or else.

    Forget demanding spending cuts.

    Forget drawing a line in the sand and saying “NO” to economically destructive new taxes.

    Our nation is over $16.3 TRILLION in debt, but that has nothing to do with wasteful politicians.

    It’s the fault of “selfish” people like you who don’t hand over every red cent to Big Government bureaucrats in their mad rush to destroy every last memory of free markets in our country.

    That’s what the statists want you to believe.

    Only to a politician could people who want to keep the fruits of their labor be considered “greedy,” while those who would effectively STEAL those fruits be considered bighearted.
    - Campaign For Liberty’s President John Tate

  • Karolyn

    Have you heard our illustrious Senato DeMint has resigned to head The Heritage Foundation?

    • Right Brain Thinker

      A match made in heaven. Is it really true?

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001640884810 Lance Brofman

    Fast foward to October 2014.A no-comprise republicans house still have a stalemate and the taxes are imposed on every one. The only way a middle class person can get their tax cut is to remove the Republicans from congress since Obama will remain in office. What is the chance of a person making $250,000 per year voting republican if it means his taxes are $20,000 per year higher than if the Democrats take control and cut taxes for the 98%

    • Mokotov

      Many, not all, who make $250,000 + are smart enough to realize that if Dems lower taxes there is not enough money to pay the spending the Dems already have.
      Fact – the richest 1-2% make an estimated $1.25 trillion a year. Sounds great. So lets take it ALL – But wait, that covers one year on Obama’ new spending ideas. And the money the gov’t took is not being spent, so all those goods and services are nor bought, and all those jobs are lost. But the Dems really socked it to the “rich”.
      Next, since you took their money, the rich have less invested, and make less next year. So what are you going to do;
      first to make up for the $1.25trillion less in spending byt he rich
      second – who you gonna tax next year? The “rich” are no longer the “rich”. Except maybe football players and movie stars.
      Someone please explain where these two stacks of money comes from next year.
      I need a good laugh.

  • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAY

    Corporations Do Not Pay Taxes: They Can’t, They’re Not People!

    It’s not all that difficult an idea after all: any tax is going to mean less money in the wallets of some group of people. The people who have less money after the tax are clearly and obviously the people who are “really” paying this tax.

    As Matt Yglesias says, this is clearly true:

    When Mitt Romney offered the strange turn of phrase that “corporations are people” to try to express the point that when you increase the corporate income tax, the extra tax burden ultimately falls on human beings. The point is clearly true. If GE paid more taxes, some concrete people would have less money.

    The important question is who ends up paying it and that is arguable. One CBO report says that it’s largely the workers in companies that pay the tax in the form of lower wages. Another earlier CBO report says much the same thing:

    Public-sector economics has yet to resolve the issue of who bears the burden of taxes
    on corporate income. Economists recognize that the incidence–that is, the
    distribution of the burden of such taxation–falls ultimately on individuals and not on
    corporations. However, economists argue about who bears the largest burdens.

    A Congressional Research Service paper uses different assumptions and claims that it is mostly capital, the shareholders in lower returns, who carry the burden.

    But do note the one point upon which everyone is agreed: whoever is paying the tax it’s not the company. We’ve known this since 1899 and Edwin Seligman’s “The Shifting And Incidence Of Taxation”.

    This is of course a hugely important point. For example, all those who say that “companies should pay more tax” are simply being ignorant. Companies do not pay tax, cannot pay tax, and thus to call for them to pay more is just displaying that ignorance.

    It’s also extremely important to note this point when we consider new taxes. For example, the Financial Transactions Tax (or the Tobin Tax, Robin Hood Tax, all the same thing really) which was being bandied about; the rhetoric was that the banks should pay for the damage they caused. But banks are corporations, corporations do not pay tax thus the FTT will do absolutely nothing at all to make banks pay for anything.

    Thus the major problem with the FTT: it’s based upon ignorance. It won’t be banks that pay it. It will be us, the average consumer, stung on every minor and major transaction in the economy. Further, the amount we’re stung will be higher than the amount raised in tax. Whether those who are proposing it are ignorant of all this is unknown: it could be that they are sufficiently cynical to know but think that we are ignorant enough to not.

    As to calling it the Robin Hood Tax, perhaps we should remind them of the original Robin of Loxley. He made his bones resisting those collecting unjustly levied taxes, not imposing them.

    It’s simply nonsense based upon ignorance. Either the ignorance of those proposing it or perhaps worse, their playing upon our presumed ignorance of the fact (yes, fact) that companies do not pay taxes, ever. Not one single cent or penny has ever been paid in tax by a company and no system of taxation will ever be able to make them do so. So to call for higher corporate taxation is simply nonsensical.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2011/09/22/corporations-do-not-pay-taxes-they-cant-theyre-not-people/

    • http://tlgeer.wordpress.com tlgeer

      When a US Congress, ANY US Congress, approves a budget or spending, and it is signed into law by the President, a legally obligated debt ensues. Once it has been signed into law we do not have the right to NOT pay for it.

      Congress has been given, in the US Constitution, the extraordinary powers to raise and collect taxes. Those taxes are to pay our legally obligated debts, or for whatever else Congress decides to do.

      This has been affirmed in Perry v United States. Look it up.

      I just started a petition on the White House petitions site, We the
      People, regarding this issue. Will you sign it, or at least look at it? http://wh.gov/5ksN

    • Peter

      If you want to make the argument that corporations do not pay the same tax as individuals, I will agree.

      If you want to make the argument that there is too many loopholes in the tax code, I will agree.

      If you are talking about a country other than the USA, I am curious as to which.

      However, to say that corporate taxes do not exist is untrue. There is even an Accounting/financial benchmark called EBT which stands for Earnings Before Taxes.

  • hkaufman

    Root,,, once again your article is nothing more then your foolish thoughts about ENTITLEMENTS,, would you please get a dam dictionary and look up the dam definition. STUPIDITY a mode you have undertaken for so many years and it SHOWS…RETIRE and work at ARBY’s because you flunked Journalistic writing.. Should have paid more attention in school you may have graduated….

  • Neil Swan

    It was found out when the owner of the LA Dodgers
    baseball team when he was sued by his ex wife. He made
    20 million dollars a year for 5 years and didn’t pay a dime
    of state or federal income tax. I don’t know why they
    don’t do away with the loop holes for millionares and
    billionares.

    Neil

    • Jeff

      Because those tax breaks for the wealthy aren’t “loopholes.” They were purposely placed in the tax code by well-paid lobbyists and the congressmen they employ. If anyone thinks the lobbyists will just step aside and allow their tax gimmicks to be brushed aside, there’s a bridge in Brooklyn with his name on it. That’s why the whole Romney/Boehner plan to gain more revenue by “closing unnamed loopholes” is such a joke.

  • JeffH

    we petition the obama administration to:

    Remove Barack Obama as President of the United States on the grounds that he does not meet Constitutional requirements.

    https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/remove-barack-obama-president-united-states-grounds-he-does-not-meet-constitutional-requirements/PysRVyGC

    • http://tlgeer.wordpress.com tlgeer

      Except, Jeff, that he does. As long as he was born on US soil, and he was, he is a natural born citizen. You are wrong. Deal with it.

      • JeffH

        tlgeer, same old tired arguement. In the past I’ve provided you with every valid reference I can…the Framer’s arguements and intent, their source of reference and their reasoning for insering the “natural born citizen” requirement in the Constitution. I have also provided the links to the 4 Supreme Court cases that have defined exactly who can be and who cannot be a “natural born citizen” as required in Section 1 of Article Two of the United States Constitution.

        That you along with many others including our corrupt government representatives and the corrupt judges that choose to ignore(quite possibly out of fear)the settled law of the Supreme Court is no fault of mine…all I can do is show you the path to the truth and the historical facts.

      • JeffH

        FYI, deal with the fact that Obama is a 14th Amendment citizen.
        Like it or not, rich or poor, great or strong, Democrat or Republican, Obama was born under the jurisdiction of Great Britain via Kenya. There is nothing conspiratorial about saying that. Obama has it posted on his own web site.

        Here’s what it says at Obama’s web portal, Fight The Smears:

        When Barack Obama Jr. was born on Aug. 4,1961, in Honolulu, Kenya was a British colony, still part of the United Kingdom’s dwindling empire. As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.‘s children.

        There it is. Obama is telling you his status was “governed” by a foreign jurisdiction. This is no theory. This is a fact.

        Regardless, should the people demand that Constitutional restrictions in Article 2, Section 1, be removed from the Document, they can lobby their political representatives to introduce an amendment, and if such amendment were to be ratified by three-quarters of either the state legislatures, or of constitutional conventions specially elected in each of the states, then they can have any President they like.

        But as long as Article 2, Section 1, is controlling law, it’s those who are trying to attack all review of it who are the conspiracy theorists.

        THE FRAMERS OF THE 14TH AMENDMENT
        Despite popular belief, the 14th Amendment does not convey the status of “natural born Citizen” in its text. It just conveys the status of “Citizen”. And it’s very clear that in the pre-amendment Constitution, the Framers made a distinction between a “Citizen” and a “natural born Citizen”. The requirement to be a Senator or Representative is “Citizen”, but the requirement to be President is “natural born Citizen”.

        Educate yourself some more on the subject.
        http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/2008/12/11/natural-born-citizen-defined-by-14th-amendment-framers-and-in-treatise-relied-on-by-scalia/

      • Smilee

        JeffH says:
        December 6, 2012 at 4:14 pm

        It is true you have furnished us with numerous references however none of were were valid and that is why you are so uninformed.

      • JeffH

        Smilee, is everyone supposed to take the word of ignorant progressives who have provided nothing that can rebut the highly detailed and historically accurate references that have previously been presented by myself as well as Mr. Livingston?

      • Nadzieja Batki

        Were you there at O’s birth? Since you weren’t it is you who is more gullible and trusting taking others word for it.

    • Jeff

      You’ve explained your erroneous position on this ad nauseum. Either file a lawsuit in federal court or put a sock in it already. The bottom line is no case actually holds that to be a “natural born citizen,” either or both parents need to be citizens. Obama was born in the U.S. to a citizen mother and a non-citizen father. He is a natural born citizen under the 14th Amendment. So is Rubio. If you don’t like it, propose an amendment to the Constitution defining “natural born citizen.”

      • JeffH

        Ad nauseum! You obviously haven’t any clue what you are talking about. You say the Obama is a 14th Amendment “natural born citizens”…that is an oxymoron and impossible because the 14th Amendment never mentioned nor was it meant to define “natural born citizen”…the 14th only defined who could be a US “citizen”.

        Amendment XIV, Section 1 – All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

      • Smilee

        JeffH says:
        December 6, 2012 at 4:54 pm

        Neither do you know what your talking about there are even those who claim if you are born by cesarean section you are not a natural born citizen and your take is almost as silly. There is no definition of natural born citizen in the constitution so if you are born in the US you are now considered qualified to be president by the courts and the vast majority of the citizens but keep on dreaming it makes it easier for you to hate the man if you can make yourself believe he is an impostor.

      • JeffH

        Smilee, you’re just an ignorant progressive…deal with it!

        • Smilee

          I guess you are acknowledging that you can find no words to intelligently rebut me, fact is there are none as they are true

      • JeffH

        It is also true that you’re an ignorant progressive…and I’ve yet to see you provide any factual rebuttal to what’s been posted here by me…other than your ignorant and childishly unsupported drivel.

        • Smilee

          You would not know the truth if it bit you in the a$$ your so deep in denial and ignorance it is impossible for you to say anything that is nothing but the far right rhetoric which is the only thing you ever read or watch leaving you in the dark so it is not possible to have a discussion with you based on facts and the truth as you have no idea what that is.

      • JeffH

        Smilee, that’s your unintelligent opinion, not mine! LMAO!
        Though you seem to have some wild idea that you have presented anything worthy of discussion is in and of itself a vagrant lie…and you believe it.

        All I’ve done to make my case is present the literary evidence supported by history. All you’ve done is spew your much anticipated groundless progressive bile…rather repeatedly I might add.

        It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere
        Voltaire (Francois Marie Arouet)

      • Smilee

        JeffH says:
        December 7, 2012 at 3:17 pm

        i REPEAT AS YOU SEEMED OT IGNORE WHAT I SAID AND WENT OFF ON A TANGENT, AS LONG AS DENIAL OF THE TRUTH MOTIVATES YOU THEN YOU WILL NEVER GET IT. . You would not know the truth if it bit you in the a$$ your so deep in denial and ignorance it is impossible for you to say anything that is nothing but the far right rhetoric which is the only thing you ever read or watch leaving you in the dark so it is not possible to have a discussion with you based on facts and the truth as you have no idea what that is.

      • JeffH

        Smilee, one fact I know for sure is the truth is that you are an angry and ignorant progressive. Why are you yelling? Did you even take breath while you the last two comments? Kinda long winded and short on punctuation.
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fL6wbsGx9qw

  • JeffH
  • Neil Swan

    Obama certainly follows the constitution.
    The religious right certainly doesn’t.

    Neil

    • Motov

      OhBozo shreds the Constitution,… What planet did you come from?

      • Smilee

        Enlighten us then, name specifically what it is he shredded????????

      • Motov

        Cut-n-paste time!

        Obama’s Doormat: the U.S. Constitution
        By Mandi Campbell, Director of Public Policy for Liberty Counsel Action
        Originally published on The Daily Caller
        While it wasn’t made in public, at some point along the way President Obama must have made an oath to undermine and patently violate the U.S. Constitution at every opportunity available.

        On January 4, 2012, the president committed his most blatant and obvious violation of our Constitution to date by making four appointments without the advice or consent of the U.S. Senate, even while the Senate was in session and available. In fact, one of his unconstitutional appointees had already been rejected by the Senate: Richard Cordray as head of the newly invented Consumer Financial Protection Bureau.

        Obama even neglected to consult the Office of Legal Counsel regarding the appointments until after they were made and publicly recognized adjudication would follow his unconstitutional appointments. Mr. Obama knew the appointments were unconstitutional. After all, he was a senator when, in 2007, Majority Leader Harry Reid, a member of Obama’s own party, stated he was going to keep the Senate in a pro forma session to prevent President Bush from making recess appointments. On January 4, 2012, the Senate was in a pro forma session, which should have prevented President Obama from making recess appointments.

        But nothing can stop a secular-socialist on a mission. Certainly not that dusty old U.S. Constitution.

        Despite the efforts of Senators Chuck Grassley and Mike Lee to draw attention to the issue, Obama’s unconstitutional appointments are not generating the kind of outrage they should. Perhaps Americans have grown accustomed to Obama’s utter disregard for the very governing document he is sworn to uphold.

        Most troubling? His actions are creating a precedent that, if left unchecked and unchallenged, may well destroy the fabric of our great constitutional republic. Our Founding Fathers envisioned and created a Constitution grounded with checks and balances. Of course, to Mr. Obama, checks and balances represent an encumbrance to the fulfillment of the “progressive” agenda.

        Shamefully, Obama’s unconstitutional appointments are merely one example in a long list of unconstitutional overreaches he has committed in the past three years:

        ● Obama’s signature initiative, Obamacare, violates the Constitution by forcing individuals to purchase health insurance.

        ● Obama’s HHS violated the First Amendment by requiring employers to cover contraceptives, abortifacients and sterilization in the health insurance they provide their employees, despite their religious and moral objections. He later shifted the mandate to the insurance companies, requiring all plans to cover such services, thinking Americans would not understand that the mandate still requires faith-based groups to subsidize services to which they have sincere religious and moral objections.

        ● The Obama administration violated the First Amendment when it refused a grant to the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops for helping victims of human trafficking obtain food, clothing and access to medical care because of the Conference’s pro-life position. In fact, the Conference was refused the grant despite having received higher scores of effectiveness than the grant’s recipients.

        ● Obama told the Department of Justice not to defend the Defense of Marriage Act, which was passed by a bipartisan Congress. Instead, the DOJ argued against the valid law (which has been upheld by multiple courts), forcing the House of Representatives to hire outside counsel to defend the law. This gross abrogation of a president’s constitutional duty to defend and protect the laws of the land was unprecedented.

        ● Obama signed Dodd-Frank into law, which allows the government’s seizure of property, violating the Due Process Clause of the Constitution and creating administrative positions that are not vetted by the Senate as required by the Appointments Clause.

        ● When the Democrat-led Congress would not pass net neutrality, Obama’s Federal Communications Commission violated the Constitution by contravening Congress to restrict the freedom of Internet service providers to manage their network transmissions.

        ● When the Democrat-led Congress could not pass cap and trade, Obama’s EPA decided to auction greenhouse gas allowances, essentially imposing a tax on emissions, which, according to the Constitution, can only be done by Congress. You will also recall Congress having to act to halt the EPA’s ban on incandescent light bulbs.

        ● When the Democrat-led Congress did not pass the Employee Free Choice Act, Obama contravened Congress by pushing the NLRB to pass regulations that allowed for “ambush elections” and required employers to provide employee e-mail addresses and phone numbers to union organizers.

        ● When the Democrat-led Congress refused to pass the Dream Act, the Obama White House and DHS decided to implement a policy of granting illegal aliens stays of refusal, which is essentially amnesty by fiat. The Obama policy even gives local immigration officials the authority to dismiss deportation cases against illegal alien criminals convicted of violent crimes.

        ● Without the approval of Congress, as required by the Constitution, Obama ordered the U.S. military to attack Libya.

        Over the course of the last three years, President Obama has continuously, shamelessly and brazenly trampled the U.S. Constitution in pursuit of his hard-left ideological wish list. His latest affronts to our most sacred document are among his most egregious; namely, his unconstitutional executive appointments and mandating that religious groups violate their sincerely held religious beliefs by providing insurance policies that cover birth control, sterilization and abortifacients.

        President James Madison once said: “There are more instances of the abridgement of the freedom of the people by the gradual and silent encroachment of those in power, than by violent and sudden usurpation.”

        President Obama didn’t know James Madison. Clearly, though, James Madison did know President Obama.

        • Smilee

          Nothing you mention is unconstitutional and most of what you portray is not accurate like the appointments which are inaccurate. Don’t you think the conservatives would have gone to court to try and have them declared unconstitutional if they felt that was the casenbbut in none of these cases did they and the reason is they knew they would loose and also loose the political advantage as if they did it and lost it would make it almost impossible for people like you to make these type of fraudulent claims. Obamacare has already been heard in the courts and declared constitutional so that is an out and out lie on your part and the Defense of Marriage act is being challenged in the courts and will most likely be heard this session and most likely will be found unconstitutional. Every act to date that has been challenged in the court on what Obama has done has been found constitutional which makes one think you do not understand what the Constitution is and what it does. It is clear by Obama’s record in the court challenges he does and you prove here you do not. But nice try

  • Mokotov

    The problem with the whole discussion on taxes is that the government does not create anything. We can debaate ad nauseum about who can “afford” to pay more. But that is an opionion, nothing better.
    The real consideration is that if a person earns money, they tend to spend it. A low income person might spend it all on food/shelter, while Buffet/Obama and Diane Sawyer spend some of it on lavish vacations. In either case, if the government takes more the individaul paying has less to spend. Someone gets, but someone loses.Diane Sawyer tips her hairdresser a little lesss, the low wage earner buys off brand soup rather than name brand. But teh total dollars is the same.
    I spend a dollar, you spend a dollar, Buffet spends a dollar, Obama gives a dollar to Solyndra, ok, not that example, but the others, it is just one dollar and matters not who spends it. The only difference is who decides where it will be spent.

    • Peter

      This is my argument for the fair tax.

      The fair tax is based on consumption, not on income. The more people spend, the more money the government makes in revenue.

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAY

        I like that proposal, Peter!

      • GALT

        Me too, especially for people that “consume” stocks, bonds, derivatives, mutual funds,
        treasuries, commodities futures contracts and the like.

  • Gary Belote

    Eddie47d
    Yeah right….Michelle earned it….She held a position whcih was created for her by some of Husseins rich friends. The job was so important that it wasn’t filled after she left. The cost to keep the Obama’s in the WH and send them on trips around the world exceeded
    1.3 billion dollars last year. Thats more than the Queen of England and all the other Monarchs around the world cost. And he’s not even a legal resident of the U.S.
    His stepfather adopted him and made him a citizen of Indonesia. There are records to substantiate his adoption. No record of him ever re-applying for U.S. citizenship. Why do you think he wont show his college records? Cause he received scholarships as a foreign exchange student.

  • AK Markuson

    Have been say this to the GOP for several weeks. Do you agree? If not what is the alternative?

    Basically, the Republicans lost this election (with a big push from the MSM). Why? because the “Free Stuff” folks voted and not enough of the rest of us did.
    That means the Dems and Free Stuff’s are in control. The playing field is still the same and the Republicans will be blamed for any problems if they enter any compromise solution. It is a no win game unless the Republicans change the rules. Personally, I don’t think they will.

    So, what’s the alternative? 1- Give the Dems free reign to make their tax and spend policy, Republicans will not block their tax and spend plans. 2- Continue to offer responsible deficit bills for Senate approval. 3- But what ever happens, state publicly, Republicans will have no responsibility for what happens with the economy. The blame will lie squarely with the American public that wants Free Stuff and the Democratic Party. 4- When things get bad, maybe the public will wake up and help fix the problem.

    This way when things get bad, the Republicans can holler and say “I told you so” because they have no dog in the fight. This is the only way they can get the upper hand. If there are any serious Democratic efforts or there is a major change in the economic landscape the Republicans can holler about that too. They will be in the cat bird seat.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002684651114 Barney Murrell

    Republicans said Bill Clinton’s tax increase would cause a recession and job loss – it did not.

    Republicans said George W. Bush’s tax cuts would lead to job growth and increased revenue – it did not.

    Also, according to a 11/26/09 article in Forbes, “Republicans have been characterized by two principal positions: They like starting wars and don’t like paying for them. George W. Bush initiated two major wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, but adamantly refused to pay for either of them by cutting non-military spending or raising taxes… Bush and his party, which controlled Congress from 2001 to 2006, never asked for sacrifices from anyone except those in our nation’s military and their families.”
    (http://www.forbes.com/2009/11/25/shared-sacrifice-war-taxes-opinions-columnists-bruce-bartlett.html)

    • Motov

      That’s because Bush was owned by the same people who pull Obama’s puppet strings, Just because the labels of democrat or republican ,..doesn’t mean squat, They fight in front of the camera’s to put on a show, while in the back rooms they take instructions from their handlers, That’s just there to keep us bitchin’ at each other while this nation goes down the drain. Both parties trampled the Constitution, but now it is the Democrats turn to shred. It will never get better, unless We wise up and throw the bums out, and get some people in there who think the US Constitution is the LAW of this land.

  • Bill

    Perhaps we should let Buffett pay the same tax rate as small business owners. This can be accomplished with a flat tax rate for both income & capital gains. Only standard deductions and exemptions can be used in the calculation. Finally, all previously untaxed income or gains are taxed. Thus, Buffett’s $40+ billion in unrealized gains will be taxed even if he donates these assets. Will Warren accept his fair share at a 79% or a 43.4% tax rate?

  • http://www.facebook.com/mirkleinberg Miriam Kleinberg

    President Obama & Democrats want 98% of the Country to receive & tax cut.. Republicans are fighting for the ultra rich 2%.. What category do you fall in?…

    • Jeff

      Even many who are in the upper 2% recognize the need to restore the “old” tax rates and that this slight raise in tax rates will do nothing to harm the economy. In fact, despite all the Republican noise on this issue, the relationship between tax rates and the performance of the economy is precisely the opposite of everything Republican Economics proclaims.

      • George E

        Jeff,

        If you really believe raising tax rates encourages economic growth, please explain your theory.

        • Jeff

          I’m not talking about economic theory which generally oversimplifies to the point of being useless. I’m looking at empirical experience over the last 20 years at least. We seem to run into real difficulty when income stratification (enhanced by relatively non-progressive tax rates) grows too large. When CEOs earned 30 times what the average worker did, we had a viable middle class, the rich were very privileged, and the poor had a safety net. As stratification grows and CEOs make 300 times the average, unions are fought, the rich become richer than kings, the middle class is decimated, and the poor become nothing but targets for right wing shock jocks. I prefer to live in the former society.

          I know some genius will say I’m advocating communism. Hardly. Maybe some of these effects are “natural,” but government policies (trade, taxation) have aided this trend, and it is not positive.

      • GALT

        Actually Jeff……..your host Bob Livingston, would have replied “non sequitur” and
        left it at that……

        • Jeff

          Your response is a bit too obtuse.

  • s c

    I can understand why utopians and similar filth can’t get it straight (they can’t do simple addition, let alone understand politics). HELLOOOOOOOOOOOOO! WHO is stupid enough to think that Buffet is a Republican? On his best day, he might be a RINO. People, wake up. He’ll be rich no matter who’s in the W H. He plays the media and some politicians like cheap violins.
    Let me guess. Those who think Buffet is a ‘Republican’ also think George Soros wants Americans to be F R E E and live in a country that has a constitution that resembles the original document we were given long ago. I can only hope that brain transplant technology will be perfected FAST, as we already have MILLIONS of people who are in dire need for brains that WORK.

    • http://tlgeer.wordpress.com tlgeer

      “George Soros wants Americans to be F R E E and live in a country that has a constitution that resembles the original document we were given long ago.”

      What FACTS lead you to believe that he doesn’t?

      • JeffH

        George Soros – Enemy of the Free Market

        Revealing the evil deceptive ploys and tactics of George Soros, progressive liberals, Marxists, Communists, Socialists, et. al. all to create a One World Government of unrepresentative control, in the same manner Radical Islam wants to create a caliphate.
        http://www.earstohear.net/soros.html

        • http://tlgeer.wordpress.com tlgeer

          “Revealing the evil deceptive ploys and tactics of George Soros, progressive liberals, Marxists, Communists, Socialists, et. al. all to create a One World Government of unrepresentative control, in the same manner Radical Islam wants to create a caliphate.”

          LOLOLOL If you really believe this claptrap you are, IMO, either extremely susceptible to the stupidest propaganda, or you clearly have no idea of what facts are and how to evaluate them.

          Why would you want to believe anything this inane, when ALL the facts say it’s not true?

          • Jeff

            You’ll have to excuse JeffH. He doesn’t get out much as he assiduously avoids bridges. Fear of trolls, you know.

        • http://tlgeer.wordpress.com tlgeer

          BTW, the link that you posted is opinion only. There are no facts cited, or anything else to follow up on. That means that it is not a credible site.

      • JeffH

        George Soros — the rich man who is hated around the world
        http://www.mrc.org/commentary/george-soros-rich-man-who-hated-around-world

      • JeffH

        George Soros has essentially privatized the Democratic Party, bringing it under his personal control. The Shadow Party is the instrument through which he exerts that control…. It works by siphoning off hundreds of millions of dollars in campaign contributions that would have gone to the Democratic Party in normal times, and putting those contributions at the personal disposal of Mr. Soros. He then uses that money to buy influence and loyalty where he sees fit.

        In 1979 Soros established the Open Society Institute (OSI), which serves as the flagship of a network of Soros foundations that donate tens of millions of dollars each year to a wide array of individuals and organizations that share the founder’s agendas. Those agendas can be summarized as follows:

        *promoting the view that America is institutionally an oppressive nation
        *promoting the election of leftist political candidates throughout the United States 
        *opposing virtually all post-9/11 national security measures enacted by U.S. government, particularly the Patriot Act 
        *depicting American military actions as unjust, unwarranted, and immoral 
        *promoting a dramatic expansion of social welfare programs funded by ever-escalating taxes
        *promoting social welfare benefits and amnesty for illegal aliens
        *defending the civil rights and liberties of suspected anti-American terrorists and their abetters 
        *financing the recruitment and training of future activist leaders of the political Left 
        *advocating America’s unilateral disarmament and/or a steep reduction in its military spending 
        *opposing the death penalty in all circumstances 
        *promoting socialized medicine in the United States 
        *promoting the tenets of radical environmentalism, whose ultimate goal, as writer Michael Berliner has explained, is “not clean air and clean water, [but] rather … the demolition of technological/industrial civilization” 
        *bringing American foreign policy under the control of the United Nations 
        *promoting racial and ethnic preferences in academia and the business world alike 
        *promoting taxpayer-funded abortion-on-demand 
        *advocating stricter gun-control measures 
        *advocating the legalization of marijuana

        http://democratoverlord.wordpress.com/ 

      • JeffH

        tlgeer says, “LOLOLOL If you really believe this claptrap you are, IMO, either extremely susceptible to the stupidest propaganda, or you clearly have no idea of what facts are and how to evaluate them.

        Why would you want to believe anything this inane, when ALL the facts say it’s not true?”

        “None is more blind than those who refuse to see.”
        -JH

        What facts have you ever presented that says otherwise? NONE! tlgeer, you’re big on rhetoric and short on substance.

      • JeffH

        It’s a given that the childish progressive troll Jeff would chime in with another meaningless comment.

        • Jeff

          When all you have is a hammer . . . . Perhaps if you improved your vocabulary you could come up with some new shtick.

  • Manuel

    Entitlements my ass!

    Those are earned benefits and they have nothing to do with the defecit

    • http://www.facebook.com/thomas.sherman.589 tgsherman

      10-4

      • GALT

        So goes the “theory” and technically correct…..

        BUT…………..like all things trapped in the infinite growth inflation cycle, with non reality
        based benefit calculations and ( for the moment ) still increasing life expectancy tables
        and lower fertility rates, the math doesn’t work………

        Not a mystery when the expectation of the “program” was not really concerned with
        having to pay “anyone”…….when it was introduced in 1935…….

        Things change………the ability of people to see change, not good. Accept that
        things have changed…..even worse. Anticipate that things will change……..practically
        non existent…….

  • Sol of Texas

    Another issue that is never discussed is how tax code relates to so-called “Charitable [tax free] Foundations”,

    People who investigate what these Foundation “critters” actually are, how they are used, and what happens when they are dissolved may be surprised.

  • Lawrence

    Mr. Root that is nevergoing to happen. However if we put enough pressure on the house they can stop deficit spending by refusing to increase the debt limit.

  • http://none ron

    Wayne , retire out while you still have a modicum of dignity left!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • linda petrella

    I believe this fiscal cliff thing is nothing , but a bunch of bull. We would not have the problems we have if it were not for the fact that people were driven in to spend, spend, spen and now, peple have a spening problem that now has put them in to a credit hole of always owing credit card companies and now have a hard time feeding themselves and family. Our whole way of life and the way we were meant to live is so out of wack how canany of this be so called fixed. We need to go back to being really fiscally responsible and stop spending money on credit cards we don’t have in the first place. How much money does a person really need that they become so rich and get away with not having to pay there fair share of taxes. Most of us need money to be able to eat nad to just be able to do basic stuff every day. Why should a rich person be able to keep more of there money than we do. Money does not mean as much to them as it does to us . To a rich person having lots of money is nothing more than just a game to them. They want to show all of the rest of us “hey look at me i’m this rich or that rich.

  • http://www.facebook.com/bruce.ewert Bruce Ewert

    Re: “Small businessmen like me don’t get sweetheart deals from government. We have no teams of lobbyists or lawyers on call. We need our earnings — desperately. We use our earnings to pay our employees, support our families, pay for our children’s college educations and provide for our retirement (small-business owners have no pensions). But most importantly, small-business owners need our money to start and expand our businesses or, in this horrible Obama economy, save them. Take more of our money with higher taxes and we won’t be able to pay for our employees’ health insurance, make payroll or keep our doors open in a crisis. And we’ll never be able to retire. Is that fair?”

    Payroll is a business deduction, employee health care is a business deduction and now also a credit under Obamacare, self-directed 401Ks funded with pretax earnings will not be taxed until retirement, etc. If you are like most small businessmen (like myself) you have your business set up as an S corp and pass through earnings AFTER deductions.

    I do agree with your upper end rates proposal, but would add one for item: make those rates apply to unearned income (dividends, capital gains, and carried interest) as well as earned income (salaries, wages, and S corp passthroughs).

  • Bob666

    Here is an Idea, let’s start a couple of more wars, cut taxes even more and then leave the mess for another generation to clean up and watch the middle class diapear.

  • Don

    another thing, the reason obunhole did’nt approve the oil pipeline out of canada and the baken oilfield in north dakota was because he did’nt want to stop warren buffet from making a fortune hauling the oil in tank cars on buffets burlington northern santa fe railroad. buffet probly raised hell with him about the pipeline. seems like nowadays our government is only concerned about making the big boys more wealthy. i hope soon the people of this country vote and vote smart. the vote could beat the buck and we could get the wealthys benefactor out of congress so we the people could have the country back.

    • Jeff

      So enlighten us as to what benefit we will reap from this pipeline. It will deliver the dirtiest oil on earth from Canada to the Gulf of Mexico to enter the worldwide oil trade. We assume all the risks of ruptures in the pipeline so the world can get more oil. Where is the great benefit to the U.S.?

      • George E

        Jobs. Income. Tax revenue.

        • Jeff

          Most of the jobs would be related to cleaning up the inevitable spills that always find their way into ground water.

          • George E

            Jeff,

            Surely that’s a stretch to minimize the positive impact this pipeline will have on the economy. Like it or not, the fossil fuels industry does provide a lot of good paying jobs to a lot of people who need them. If jobs is a top priority, we should encourage their development, not discourage it.

          • Jeff

            We’re not talking about a refinery. How many jobs are created by a pipeline?

          • George E

            I’d guess a few hundred working directly for the pipeline transmission company, a few thousand to construct the pipeline, and a few thousand to support the operation (vendors). This crude oil will also keep refineries operating at top capacity so there may be additional jobs created there as well. These are generally good paying jobs with good benefits. Don’t forget that pipeline companies pay a lot of taxes, especially to local school districts, to fund much needed infrastructure that the country needs. Also, don’t forget that pipelines are generally very safe and clean operations as a whole.

          • Jeff

            Here’s a list of pipeline “accidents” just in the U.S. in the past 12 years. The list of 20th Century accidents is far longer.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pipeline_accidents_in_the_United_States_in_the_21st_Century

          • George E

            Yes, there are accidents in the pipeline industry, just like there are in every other industry. Still given the thousands of miles of pipeline, I would guess the number of accidents are no more than you would expect in other industries. If these accidents offend you then I guess the options are 1) shut down this industry, or 2) take actions to reduce the number of accidents. Personally, I’d much rather make pipelines safer than shut down these companies and lose the benefits associated with them.

            I know that some of these pipelines are quite old, and maintenance isn’t always top notch. I’d bet those are the ones where we have the most accidents. It shouldn’t be too difficult to regulate these responsibly to make sure they are maintained or shut down. Obviously, no operator wants an accident like these because it not only costs them a lot of product revenue, but also personnel injury cases, environmental violations, and bad publicity.

          • Jeff

            All I’m pointing out is there are risks to balance against the rewards, which would appear to be minimal for us in this case. It’s Canadian oil and it’s the dirtiest possible oil so can do maximal damage when there is an accident. It’s to cross 2,000 miles of U.S. territory. Is there a reason it can’t go directly to the Atlantic or the Pacific? And is there a reason Obama was forced to make the decision so quickly? Before environmental impacts could be measured? Yes, it’s called politics and it didn’t work.

          • George E

            I assume they prefer to pipe it across land to the Gulf Coast because that’s where the refinery capacity is to refine it, and it is cheaper to pipe it to the Gulf Coast rather than pipe it to one of the other coasts and ship it to the refineries. It’s about 3/5′s as far from the source in Alberta to the Pacific coast as it is from Alberta to the Gulf Coast, but several times farther from the Canadian Pacific coast where the crude oil would be piped to the Gulf Coast refineries by ship. I’m pretty sure it’s also less risky piping it to the refineries than piping and shipping it. I believe the transfer points at the ocean terminals would be the most likely places for leaks to occur, if there are problems. That can be avoided by piping the crude the entire distance.

  • James

    Yes, we have a spending problem and this administration wants to keep spending. The last four years over 16 Trillion ahd wants more spending. Now, they will blame the Republicians no matter what. They will say the Republicans won’t go along with them and Obama is the one who has gotten us in this mess!!!!! People have blinders on!!!! Obama, thinks he is doing the right thing and this is why people voted for him. Most people don’t know what he stands for—-the one”s that voted for him!!!!!I Example—-I’ve heard he is sexy and I’m going to vote for him, He gaves us phones and the list goes on!!!!!!

    • Jeff

      You truly have a “feel” for the Democratic voter. I’m amazed you don’t have a Fox contract.

  • harleydavidson

    I agree totally with Wayne.

    I did not vote for obama. So this is not about defending obama and the democrats. But the GOP should just do what obama and the democrats want. Give them EVERYTHING they want.

    If it works, then democrats get the credit. If not, the democrats get the blame. If it does not work, perhaps people will learn once and for all that the democrats’ platform does not work, and they will never go back to the democrat ways, or vice versa. Until enough citizens feel the pain, they are not going to learn.

    Are we going to convince everybody one way or the other? Hell no. But we just need to have enough people learn something hard…or good.

    I think it was the GOP’s fault that got obama re-elected. There is a saying that “Never interfere with an enemy while he is in the process of destroying himself.” The GOP interfered with obama and the democrats so much that it prevented them from sinking our country into the abyss. So the economy and the way of life did not suffer much under obama. If one did not suffer under obama, what’s the motivation to chance? Nothing.

    There is another saying that “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.” If the GOP continues to interfere, nothing will change. They will continue to lose elections.

    Let Obama and the democrats do everything they want. Let them sink this country (if that is what the GOP claims will happen). When that happens the citizens will wake up. But if the GOP stays the course, then they deserve to lose all coming elections.

  • http://gillysrooms.blogspot.com GILLY FROM AUSTRALIA

    The IMF has advised that for every $1 the Government spends it creates $1.80 of business activity, however only $0.10 of business activity by giving tax cuts if I have got the statistics correct.
    Maybe this is due to taxpayers more likely to be saving, banking their savings or reducing and deleveraging their debts instead of spending the savings, i dont know.

    The other issue is …you have just had an election and Obama won and the majority should be permitted to rule otherwise you would be assisting the continuing breakdown of Democracy like happens often in the middle east. How would you like it if the Board of a large company where to decide on a business direction but the opposing minority of Board members decided to disrupt the the wishes of the majority board decision because it did not agree that it borrow .? That is what it looks like to the onlookers of what the GOP Republicans have been attempting to do before and after the election and probably one of the reasons the election was lost.

    So my suggestion is that you agree to the tax increases and let Obama do what he wants and if things get a great deal worse than in Greece then you will have reason to complain at the next elections period. But in my view a no growth economy is doing very well and even a small negative growth is not doing too bad these days but look at the European countries and Greece and Spain and tell me your in that league…then you would be lying.

    Think of all the positives…the Gas finds on your soil being developed by BHP will save you a fortune in oil imports in the years to come….A BIG PLUS…So much gas you might be able to export some to Chimna like Canada is likely to be doing soon to help pay for your imports. APPLE is moving some of its manufacturing back to USA another PLUS. So in my opinion its not all gloom, because their are business people doing positive things for your nations’ benefit while others just talk…talk is easy…but action is what counts and bit by bit your nation will improve after the many negatives wash through the system. Remember businesses create wealth NOT governments….governments should help not hinder.

  • Simian_Pete

    Mr. Root,

    I would not want to sacrifice any billionaires to higher taxes. Actually, nobody should be subjected to any tax increases, especially small business owners (I agree with you on that !)…

    The Federal government is required to balance the budget. Tax Revenue should be greater than or equal to expenses. Congress and the President are allowed to break the law every year – zero accountability !!!

    When will the PEOPLE decide to vote in competent representatives ?

  • kenny

    wow your the problem my man because you believe that 250,000 a year isnt rich come on man….if you cant pay your bills with 5,000 a week your lost son. get a grip. now try 500 a week before taxes you would shot yourself. well MOST american live on 500 a week not 5000

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