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Is the 14th Amendment even a legal option?

August 1, 2011 by  

Is the 14th Amendment even a legal option?

For the record, the White House’s official position is that President Barack Obama has no intention of invoking the 14th Amendment to the United States Constitution in order to raise the debt ceiling.

“Our position hasn’t changed. There are no off-ramps. There’s no way around this. There’s no escape. And having an esoteric constitutional argument won’t resolve the fact that our borrowing authority is due to expire on August 2nd,” White House Press Secretary Jay Carney said in a press briefing on Wednesday, which is the most recent time the Administration has commented on this subject as of this writing.

“And Congress has the legal authority — and only Congress has the legal authority to extend that borrowing authority. That’s our position. The President stood here and told you. We consulted to see what this was about, but it is not an option,” Carney said.

But what if Obama did invoke the 14th Amendment? After all, many Democrats are clamoring for him to bring an end to the debt ceiling debate on his own, through an executive order.

“He could do that [an executive order] with a stroke of a pen. We have seen many big things done in history that way,” Representative Jim Clyburn (D-S.C.) said on MSNBC’s Jansing & Co., according to POLITICO. “I was joking to my staff the other day: ‘Tell me the bill number for the Emancipation Proclamation.’ It was an executive order. We integrated the armed services by executive order. We integrated the public schools by executive order. Sometimes executives must order that things get done.”

Clyburn isn’t alone. Senator Tom Harkin (D-Iowa), House Minority Whip Steny Hoyer (D-Md.), former President Bill Clinton and other Democrats have weighed in, urging the President to exercise an authority that Obama claims not to have.

According to a column for The New Republic, in all likelihood the Supreme Court would not even hear the case if Obama did invoke the 14th Amendment, and someone challenged it. The problem in cases like this often amounts to a lack of legal “standing.”

“The conservative justices have long required clear evidence of legal ‘standing’ before opening the courthouse door — something they showed in their recent 5-4 decision rejecting a taxpayer’s challenge to an Arizona school vouchers program — and it’s hard to imagine who could establish enough of a legal injury to establish standing in this case,” the article read.

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  • Michael J.

    Those who believe that this administration who has trampled the Constitution like a maurauding herd of buffalo will somehow be constrained by it on this issue are simply naive.

    Although I do not believe he will invoke the 14th amendment VIA executive order, he is never the less dangling this latent threat over the heads of The House of Irrelavance like a steel hammer ready to drop.

    But all this is a mute point in light of Boehner’s capitulation. His deal cuts Obama a check for 1 trillion immediately, to be dispersed amongst the usual suspects, Unions and bailouts to crony criminals in order to assure his re-election at our grandchildrens expense, while promising spending cuts spaced out over the next ten years that will likely never happen.

    • TIME

      Michael,

      All very good points and all the TRUTH too.

      As to the 14th Amendment and whats written within its confines, Barrys ploy to use it really stretches the fabric of reality, but then again how many Marxist let a little thing like constraints of realitys stand in their way when dealing with mindless sheep.

      And yet the Mindless sheep of this nation have not a clue what the 14th Amendment even means nor allows.
      Folks – Thats the very reason why this nation is over, the complete and total utter ignorace is overwhelming.
      Now talk about “FEAR MONGRING.”

      Let alone when one employes such a form of “FEAR MONGRING” its nothing but pure VITRIOL. The OVERT Hate let alone the OVERT Contempt that Barry displays for this nation and its citizens is mind numbing.

      But hey the bright side is that we can now save in wasteful spending all of .01% over a 10 year period of time. WOW What deal!
      But thats off set by a new Government commission of what was that again 14 people who will work on Suggesting possible cuts.
      So you see now we have 14 NEW JOBS, that the TAX payers will have to pay for. WOW ~ Job CREATION out of this worthless rhetoric too!

      • Ken Miller

        “The OVERT Hate let alone the OVERT Contempt that Barry displays for this nation and its citizens is mind numbing.”

        First of all, you must have an advantage over me. You must be intimate friends with the President in order to use his youthful nickname. For me, I was taught to respect those who God has placed in authority over me, so I’ll refer to him as President Obama, or the President.

        As far as the overt hate and contempt that you feel the President displays; are you sure that your judgment hasn’t been clouded by the the hate and contempt you have in your own heart?

        • BrotherPatriot

          Excuse me?

          Barry Soetoro was the name he used as a child to go to school in Indonesia. It’s not a nickname. You couldn’t go to school at that time unless you were a citizen. This means if he was a US citizen then he legally would have had to give that up in order to goto school…and he did indeed go to school in that foreign country.

          So either way you look at it…there are lies. How about a few more lies…like his MULTIPLE social security numbers that are attached to several house purchases. How about the various Birth Certficates that are being proven by experts to be forgery’s. How about his book & life story. His various names. His statement that he’s a christian but the facts that he advocates the greatness of Islam. What of his passport records? Who financed his “education”? Shall I go on?

          We have a liar in Chief. Period. To much evidence points at foul play and that he rubs shoulders with known criminals and appoints them to positions of power. Seriously…American’s are getting educated to the truth of things (Thank you Internet!) and we simply are becoming the awakend Giant again. One day here soon…were gonna stand up and make a move. Were getting pissed off and were not going to take it much longer. As a former special force member of the US military…I can tell you I’m pretty pissed off and watching things closely. Many loyal veterans of the Constitution are.

          We’ll see what Ortaiz comes up with on Aug 10th when she goes for the orginal BC in Hawaii…God Bless her efforts. Patriots are fighting this on mulitiple levels…let’s hope it doesn’t go to the final “box” and if it does…then the military sides with the Constitution and not the social degenerates who have managed to infiltrate our government at the highest levels.

          Mark my words…Barry’s a one term president. He may have to declare martial law or some other power move to stay in but he won’t be staying in for long if he does.

          God Bless.

          • Alex

            “mark my words”—President Barack Hussein Obama will not be re-elected?

            As much as you Fright Wingers hope and pray for that, he will most likely be re-elected because there appears to be NO ONE to beat him.

            When I first came to Persona Liberty Digest a year or so ago I was amzaed at the level of hatred you people poured over the president. Along with that, your whiny objections to everything put forth in an attempt to raise this wretched country from the gutter of its own making were alarming—”Wow….these people are pretty scary—-so ignorant and selfish.”

            After time and the reality of our situation set in, I could rela a bit. That is because you Reich Wing nuts are a decided minority—as misinformed as you are angry—petulant, really, like children who don’t like the rules of the game.

            In short—the Teabaggers and other people unwilling to progress with the rest of humanity are but a blip on the screen. Already, the “wave” of Tea Party Rethuglicans are sowing their own one-term legacy—-the sheeple of this country are wising up to the fact that these freshmen reps want nothing more than to cut SocSec and Medicare while allowing vast amounts of money to be left in the hands of the idle rich—who have shown consistently that they DO NOT use their savings to create jobs—after all, where are all the jobs from the first eight years of the Bush Tax Cuts?

            You neo-conartists do NOT represent anything more than your own tiny mindset and have no one to beat President Obama. As much as a failure as he is—-we on the Left cannot stnd him—he will almost certainly be re-elected.

          • First Shirt

            @Alex; For such an obviously well educated person, who otherwise might add to the discussion of ideas on this subject, your name calling has outed your true contempt for anyone that is not in lock step with your idea of political correctness. Debate and the free exchange of ideas should be the standard.

            You say, “Fright Wingers,” “you Reich Wing nuts,” “the Teabaggers,” “the “wave” of Tea Party Rethuglicans,” and “You neo-conartists.” These samples of your hate for those who have differing ideologies from your speak volumes about your character.

          • Penny Fuentes

            Thank You and God Bless You for your service to our country then and now. I only hope that if he refuses to leave the office that our military, whom he loathes, escorts him out of the White House. This man is the epitome of very low class.

          • Penny Fuentes

            Alex, you described this country as “WRETCHED”, how dare you, you piece of human feces. This is the greatest country on earth. You talk about hate from the right, People on the left are some of the most vile and disgusting critics of this country and her people. They would sell their souls in a heartbeat,unless they have not already done so. You don’t like this country-LEAVE, roll around in the scum of the earth which you are aligned.

          • TIME

            So Alex,

            Ok your gay we get it, so what you need a shrink as you suffer from a Mental Disorder. Hey really its no differant than depression, seek help.

            Perhaps your oral fixation can be overcome with meds.

          • Penny Fuentes

            Brother Patriot, as we speak, obama is trying to instill and identification number for us all to be able to use the internet.He will also be able to shut down the internet in the guise of “National Security”.

          • KM

            Brother Patriot,
            You mentioned the person subpoenaing O’s records. It is Orly Taitz.
            I agree with much of your commentary.
            Tell it like it is.
            You can respect the offic of President, but you do not have to respect the person. There have been some who have held this position who aren’t worthy of respect.
            It is the right of Americans (at least for now) to dissent, to address their grivances to their government and call out those who dishonor the elected office. This is nothing new. We all should refresh ourselves on our history. Thomas Jefferson was called terrible names and on and on.

          • BrotherPatriot

            KM…ty for pointing out my mispelling. I was writing fast and with much passion at that moment.

            I meant no disrespect to Orly Taitz and only have the greatest of respect for what she is doing and for her tenacity. Her loyalty to the Constitution is a great example for other men & women who have government jobs to follow…yes I’m speaking about the politions, senator’s & congressmen. It’s most unfortunate that many however have no loyalty to the Constitution but yet have these appointed jobs. Here’s a ROOT level place to spend some tax payers money on to investigate & fix…imho.

            Yes, I respect the office of the Presidency. However, I have no respect for the usurper sitting in that chair or for the people who have helped put him there. There is alot of stuff going on and forces in motion to destroy the sovereignity of not just America but other nations as well. Unfortunately, these forces/familes have a great deal of money (all of it?). They own the central banks, our media & our entertainment and through these control mechanisims they control our society. They spread propoganda and disinformation to keep the vast majority of America & the rest of the world from waking up to what it is they have done & are doing. However, information is still slowly seeping out and people are awakening to this. The internet has alot to do with this awakening & yes, that’s why they want to sensor it or have a kill switch or some other form of control over it.

            However way you look at it…it’s still an infringement upon our rights if they do such a thing but it’s not like they don’t infringe upon those rights when they really want to anyway. Look at the Patriot Act and what that allows our “leaders” to do to us if/when “they” decide to act upon it. It seems like a little common sense should go along way to fix these & many other problems. But…that can only happen if we have loyalists to the Constitution in our government. At this time…we dont’ have this.

            Sooo…Americans should fix this at the root level. We should fire and run out of Washington anyone who has helped shred the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. By going into their voting history we can easily find who these people are…and then fire them. Some of them may even be found to be treasonous *cough* Barry *cough* Soros *cough* fill in the blank *cough*. It all has been going on for a very long time…and I’m tring really hard to not go off into my usual rant of what the “Agenda” is…lol.

            Anyway, God Bless!

        • jibbs

          God has not placed barry in authority of the United States, the POS was planted there. Hell, he’s not even a legal alien or legal president!

          • BrotherPatriot

            Bingo…my fellow educated brother.

            (wink)

            God Bless.

          • http://Verizon Bud G.

            Jibbs: I believe there is ample evidence to prove Obama is not eligible to be the president. Time and Brother Patriot know exactly how he got there and it is fairly easy for everyone to follow the money and influence.

            The main driver was George Soros and his many media outlets and support organizations. The Rothchilds New World Order and the International Monetary Fund and the United Nations all figure in the scheme. We are a capitalist nation and it doesn’t fit into their quest for world government with one currency and based on socialism.

            Don’t take my word for this, rather go the bio of George Soros, look at the list of attendees at meetings (you won’t get much more than that as their meetings are not open to the press), the tendency by this administration to run policy through the United Nations. Who is the head of the Department of State and whose husband is heavily involved with the United Nations.

            Nobody has the intestional fortitude in Congress to challenge Obama’s eligibility and we are checkmated by both the Department Of Justice (Eric Holder) and Department of State. Meanwhile, the administration is loaded with Socialists and the Socialist Democrats in Congress are the ones driving key legislation, Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, Henry Waxman and Barney Frank.

            How do you destroy Capitalism? Destroy the economy and the middle class. Over the last few years, this administration has managed to drain the Federal Reserve by 16 trillion dollars by their giveaway to banks to include foreign ones. How many know this? They will tell you it was necessary to avoid a world crises. What if the crisis was contrived and controls put in place to create such a crisis? When you have a corporation having more cash on hand than the Federal Reserve and others holding massive reserves as well, we see countries broke but corporations generally in good shape.

            I think it is clear we must remove the cancer in the White House and certain members of congress whose goal is to make the United States
            a part of the New World Order. Many will think this is quite a stretch but I believe, after checking all of this, that is exactly what is happening now.

          • BrotherPatriot

            Thank you for your support & your post, Bud G. Very clearly pointed out and defined as the cancer that it is.

            Let’s hope more & more of us see these truths as self evident as we do.

            God Bless America.

        • Freedom

          They need to earn our respect, not the other way around. HE HAS NOT EARNED THAT RESPECT. The ZERO in the White House is an Illegal in the White House. I will not degrade the office President by putting his name and President in the same statement. I use the word President with Clinton and Carter, but had to Swallow hard to do it.

          • jibbs

            Thank you Freedom and Brother P, ……….HIGH FIVE
            I should have my 300 gal. potable water tank tomorrow!(JIC)

            http://gun-deals.com/ammo.php

        • Penny Fuentes

          God did not “PUT” obama over us, Satan did. We are told not to walk in evil ways, obama is one of the most evil people on earth.

        • TIME

          Kennie My Boy,

          God had nothing to do with Barry Soetoro becoming the POTUS, so perhaps you should put down your King James and smell the Java dude.

          Barry was slected by the Rothschilds the he was placed as a POTUS.

          But hey that would require that you do some real work to find the facts. As I am not your Mommie nor is anyone else here do you own work to uncover the TRUTH.
          Otherwise your just a Babbling Bubba with out a clue..

          But hey ~ thanks for playing and please try again.

          • Penny Fuentes

            Time, Ken is not reading “The King James Version” or he would know the truth.. These revised editions such as the “revised american standard” are changed to someone elses mindset.

          • BrotherPatriot

            TIME…my brother in arms…you are sure making this hard for me not to go into my usual rant about the New World Order and the movers & shakers in that arena…lol.

            Yes indeed…the Rothschilds/Rockerfellers & the rest of the “star” familes, the UN, the CFR, the Trilateral Commision, the Illuminati & all their variously named organizations indeed are part of the ROOT level of the equation as to why our world is the way that it is. However, most don’t even know what we are talking about. Many don’t either want to hear about it or are so conditioned by their life grooming that their eyes have already glazed over. However…every once innawhile a few actually do take the time to investigate what people like us are saying and then they wake up to the truth. I know this to be true…because it’s how I became enlightened to what is actually happening in our world. At first I was horrified, angry, then nervous & scared. I went through a wide range of emotions. I paced back in forth to the computer screen & then away. Once again horrified a new by what I was learning…often researching back into history. But in the end…I became resolute in my belief that I have to do what I can to help change this. You see, I swore an oath to my country. To protect it against foreign & domestic threats. I reconfirmed this oath by joining Oath Keepers. I believe that my children & my children’s children do not deserve to inherit the world as I did. So at this time my voice is all I have to use & God help us all if I find myself with other patriots on the line in defense of these belief’s. But if it comes to that…I know I’m doing what’s right as my forefathers did when we gained our independence and created this great experiment called, The United States of America.

            My point? We just have to keep bashing our head against that wall and every once innawhile we break through & free another caught in the “matrix”. So my friend, my brother…though we may not agree on everything…we still are on the same side & it’s our responcibility to keep bashing that wall to awaken our brothers & sisters to the fight that is at hand.

            I wish you luck in your endeavors.

            God Bless.

        • Erik

          God didn’t place Barry in office; those who refuse to work for a living and the democrats who cater to their ilk did.
          Your “magic sky daddy” theory, however, is very precious.

        • rulken

          Hey Ken Miller;
          Do you always talk in riddles?
          First of all, Barry is a better documented name than Obama is! That said, he isn’t the president of the United States of America until he proves beyond a shadow of any doubt, that he was a “naturally born” citizen of this country. He hasn’t done that yet!(don’t even, bring up that sloppy forgery, that he flashed on the TV.)
          If! He in fact was born here, then what about all the SS numbers? The pass ports? The school issues,(no one remembers him in the class! Not one person!) You want to just shrug off, the list of terrorist friends, that he has, and keeps?!
          I don’t know what your smoking, but you better get off it,
          and join the REAL world!
          Until he answers these, and other important questions, we don’t have to acknowledge him as president, fact of the matter is, we can address him in any fashion as we please.

          • BrotherPatriot

            See Ken…it’s not just me. When I said, “The vast majority of true American’s”…this is an example of one of them. (That is for you especially, Alex and do note that I said “true Americans”.)

            True American’s are the ones who acknowledge that the Constitution is the highest law of the land.

            Period.

            God Bless.

      • http://Verizon Bud G.

        It came to a little more than that Time. What is happening is Congress now is a bitter fight by the business as usual and those who believe in a balanced budget. The business as usual ones were trumped and there won’t be any increase in spending without equal cuts. I know this has happened in a sense in the past but the cuts never materialized and the deficit continued growing. The business as usual lost the fight for the day.

        Listen, the new blood in the house are playing hardball and it is driving the business as usual bunch nuts. The best suggestion I have heard to date is to cut one cent off every dollar spent and hold spending to it present level. This may not sound like it would work but believe me, it would. The other thing was no new taxes or revenue as it is called by them. The point is, the Keynesian theory this administration is using is not effective and has never worked. We need to put the concentration on business and incentives to industry to compete world wide. You can’t do this if they are taxed to the point where competing is impossible and not being able to put earnings back into the economy. Anyone with a little understanding of economics knows this.

    • Sarah

      I wasn’t sure if anyone had read about this yet… Beck has talked about all these names mentioned in the article and none of them are good. vicki goes to washington is part of vision2 america… I’m hoping like hell that none of this is true… But I wouldn’t be surprised if it is!

      http://vickigoestowashington.com/2011/07/urgent-plot-to-rewrite-constitution/

    • mark

      Right, Obama will not use the 14th amendment. But he will be blamed for using it for months and years to come even though he did not. Perception is far more powerful than reality when it comes to Obama. He is not a Muslim born in Kenya. But this does not matter one whit. Most conservatives and libertarians have already made up their minds on this – and evidence has no impact. Goebbels wrote extensively about this. If you repeat a lie enough times, and it spreads to other who also repeat it over and over again, it eventually becomes the truth. How ironic that libertarians and conservatives who constantly condemn Obama for his supposed totalitarianism, repeatedly use this same totalitarian technique.

      • Robin from Arcadia, IN

        Mark… What makes the United States so great is you can have an opinion, and so can everyone else. My opinion is that Barry is a Muslim and was born in Kenya. I also believe that the ‘produced’ birth certificate he offered as his proof is a forgery. He shouldn’t even be president.

        • Ken Miller

          Robin, I think you help support my response to Mark.

          That is the also the very reason Jesus had to die on the cross for our sins. When we are presented with the truth, we still will not use our free will to believe because our hearts are so hardened.

          There are some whose theology leads them to believe that they are somehow better, smarter, or wiser than others. That is why they think that they are Christians. They chose to follow Christ.

          I know that it is not true of me. I am too stubborn and sinful to ever have been able to choose Him. I use my free will each hour of every day to either follow Him or not. But I would never follow Him if had not first chosen me.

          Ephesians 1:3–4.

          Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world . . .

          • Robin from Arcadia, IN

            Ken Miller… You are double-talking. At first I thought you agreed with me and then you went on a Christian tangent. Then I read your response to Mark and it sounds like you agree with him.

            First off… I am a saved Christian. I believe in right wins against wrong and that God is not only a forgiving God, but a just God.

            Secondly…. Just because I am a Christian doesn’t mean that I don’t have an informed opinion.

            I am really not sure where you are coming from with your posts. I haven’t been on the site for a while and maybe I am just too confused to understand because of the mixed signals you send…

          • BrotherPatriot

            Excuse me, Mr. Obot (Ken Miller)…but I know your statements help support my responce to Robin.

            Well said and accurate statement, Robin. Indeed…Barry shouldn’t be sitting in the Presidents chair. He never was vendicated as a legitamate candidate for the Presidency. We don’t even know who he really is and he spent MILLIONS to hide his background by sealing his documents once he got in…hrrmmm…now why is that?

            Sumtin smells funny…well not funny actually but really, really WRONG.

            Keep waking up my brothers & sisters. The rabbit hole goes deep…

            God Bless.

      • Ken Miller

        You are absolutely right, Mark. It is refreshing to see that there is someone with a clear head that is posting a comment. I get so weary of the hateful distortions, and even outright lies that people keep spreading. Then the name calling, people toss around words so much like Marxist, socialist, communist, liberal, that I wonder if they even know what they mean. I have asked in other posts for definitons of certain words, and of course, I get no response. For example, I think the word “liberal” is often confused, misused, and abused. I personally am liberal in the political context and conservative in the theological context. They mean different things!
        In our nations history it was the liberals (progressives) who helped to protect the common man and to create a social, political, and legal climate for a middle class to rise from the poor.

        Unfortunately, the name calling and hateful rhetoric is nothing new. It has been going on since our nation’s first presidential election. For that matter, hateful discourse is nothing new to mankind. Rather than doing our best to have open and respectful discussionsm we choose to blame others and try to win arguements. That is what we do best, because since Adam and Eve, that is a product of our sinful nature.

        We would do far better in this country if we would examine our own hearts before we cast aspersions against each others.

        Proverbs 14:20-21 New Living Translation
        20 The poor are despised even by their neighbors,
        while the rich have many “friends.”
        21 It is a sin to belittle one’s neighbor;
        blessed are those who help the poor.

        • crisscross

          Classic “liberals” like many of the Founders are not the liberals and progressives of today. On the issues of personal liberty (inalienable rights vs. positive rights) and the role of government (limited vs. limitless), they are fundamentally at odds.

          • TIME

            CC, Great post and oh so TRUE!

          • Penny Fuentes

            Our founders were NOT liberals, their historical stance and ideas have been put asunder as the Revisionists have worked very hard to destroy their image and ideas. They were not liberals, or deists. They were and always have been men of God, and men we should emulate.

        • Penny Fuentes

          Ken, you sound alot like obama, who only chooses the verse of scripture he can use to advance his point. If you are a Christian God Bless You and Keep You , if not remember, this man(obama) has betrayed your Lord.

        • Penny Fuentes

          Oh, NOW I know you are not walking in the faith. The progressives since the turn of the century have done everything they can to subjugate the american people. Protect the common man, you are insane if you believe that LIE of Satan.

        • Erik

          Santa and Darth Vader are real, as well.
          Fear them.

    • Ellen

      This is stupid politics. Obama’s people claim he can use it and many Dems in Congress think he should. But, the American people want spending cuts and are mad about the deficit. If Obama over-rides Congress and raises the debt ceiling on his own using the 14th ammendment, then he owns the problem. If he doesn’t use it, then Dems can pretend he is such an excellent leader and didn’t want to circumvent the system. We already know he disdains the Constitution and has no problem cheating any system. Their ploy is simply stupid.

      • Alex

        Enough with the Muslim stuff!
        He says he is a Christian—why do you think he is lying about his faith? Why would he deny his faith? Are you lying about YOUR faith? Do you even HAVE faith?
        How do we know who YOU are? Do you claim to be a Christian? Where is your proof of what you believe?
        By the way—most people who claim to be Christians are liars because they reject the alleged words of Christ [The Sermon on the Mount] in favor of the ideology presented by their faux-Christian leaders.

        • TIME

          Alex,
          When one lies about everything the only logical crosslinking is that the person can’t tell the truth.
          If Barry told me the sun was out I would have to look for myself.
          The LIE count is staggering from this person noted as Barry Soetoro, aka, B.M.H. Obama, or what ever his name may be.

        • Penny Fuentes

          Well Alex, I have never, in an interview with George Stephanopolous, made a mistake and described my “MUSLIM” upbringing as my mantra. Stephanopolus had to correct him with “you mean Christian, don’t you” “oh yes, I meant Christian”.

    • Bob

      To all American citizens, especially the Media
      U.S Senators, Members of the House of Representatives, The Presidents,Vice Presidents of the past and present got us in this fiscal mess. They have never been doing there jobs responsibly for the American people ever. The Wars we have been in in this Country Has been for the Big Banks Corporations, and the very rich who have all made millions off the American people. Why not ask them all to give back what they have taken after all they all have lied to us about every move they have made and done all along the way. We need fresh faces and no career politicians, kick them all out and stop pensions to US senators and congressman, lower their wages and stop paying all retirement for any career politicians. They are all rich now anyway off the American People because of the deal-making and their career policical lives which in the interest of Americans is not needed. They did not do their jobs only for themselves big Banks, Corporations and the rich. Return all military home to guard our boarders. Kick out all illegals and no more foreign aid. Let France, Russia and other Countries stand on there own for now. Who made us the world the safe keeper for other countries other than the greedy Corporations and Bankers along with our greedy Government of lies. It’s not the United States of Americas job to save the World. We must save ourselves now and get our house in order. Better yet show them we’re serious and vote all incumbents out. Like One Of Our Best Presidents – Lincoln’s Statements Only To Terms For The House And Senators.

      In times when their Constitutional rights are threatened by governmental claims, citizens need to recall the truth of Lincoln’s faith in democracy and in the people: “While the people retain their virtue and vigilance, no administration, by any extreme of wickedness or folly, can very seriously injure the government in the short space of four years.” In the same vein: “The people will save the government if the government itself will allow them,” and “The Cause of civil liberty must not be surrendered at the end of one, or even one hundred defeats.” Vote out the Political and Corporate Greed and the dishonest Government we have for the people of the world and us as Americans. Get rid of the now for the new America. No more career Political office Holders. Bob, Arizona.

      • crisscross

        Lincoln and then the radical Republicans who pushed through the 14th Amendment did as much damage to our constitutional republic as any group men in our country’s history. By destroying federalism and laying the foundation for the imposition of both procedural and substantive federal law on the states, they assured that we would lose our liberty, including true diversity, in favor of an increasingly intolerant behemoth called the Federal Government.

      • jibbs

        We are not a democracy! WAAR..We are a Republic, set up by the Founding Fathers!!

        • Penny Fuentes

          Youi ‘ve got that RIGHT. We are a Republic, democracy can breed anarchy.

  • David in MA

    The 14th Amendment is a directive to Congress, NOT an authority to the president. If it were an authority to the president it would not be in harmony with the founders to seperate themselves, and the new country, from the trappings of a monarchy form of governance. Remember, the Constitution also details what the federal government can do (even though congress has failed their duty to enforce this) and that the rights known as States Rights take precident over the federal government and further states that the power is ultimately to the people. NO, the president has no authority under the U.S. Constitution to envolk the 14th Amendment, executive order or not!

    • crisscross

      The General Welfare clause is a limiting clause originally intended to give context to the limited powers expressly granted to the federal government. But that has not stopped judicial activists and other liberal progressives from twisting those limiting words into a new federal power that was never intended and that has since rendered the concept of limited powers functionally meaningless. There is no limit to the convoluted justifications progressives will invoke to accomplish their goals. To them, the Constitution is a “living document” whose most fundamental principle are to be ignored or distorted to advance their contrary ideology. Of course, the serious legal and moral questions will be brushed aside as inconvenient bumps in the road and irrelevant ancient history, and then the time-honored doctrine of Judicial Notice will cover their indiscretions forever. Until we get serious about defending AND advancing First Principles to reverse the progressive deconstruction of our constitution and republic, it’s a losing battle given the state of our activist judiciary, co-opted educational system and the apathetic and distracted culture in general.

  • Capitalist at Birth

    Michaesl J. Unforunately we are paying the costs of deficit spending and increasing debt right now, in the form of inflation and the value of the dollar is deflated.

  • http://www.bellsouth.net James Duke

    All one needs to do is read the Amendment for themselves. If you do that you will go to the fifth article and it clearly states that “Congress shall have the power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisiions of this article” not the DEMON-crat in charge or his aids. Anyone who comes up with another answer is either stupid or has an agenda against the US Constitution (SOROS).

    • Ken Miller

      What is a “DEMON-crat”?

      • BrotherPatriot

        You?

        • jibbs

          It’s also my, sister & brother in-law!!

  • http://Verizon Bud G.

    The only thing that came out of all the wrangling is Congress has been exposed as business as usual and there are people there now forcing the issue of a balanced budget. It won’t happen as long as Harry Reid is in charge of the Senate because he isn’t interested in reducing the size of government.
    Why is it that Medicare and our armed forces are the main cuts when the Department of Education, for example has 81 agencies they do not need. This is just one of many.
    We can argue back and forth about who caused this problem but it is as plain as day who doesn’t want to reduce the size of our debt and wants to increase taxes believing their Keynesian method will work. It hasn’t and there is no evidence it ever worked

    • TIME

      Bud,

      We already have a Balanced Budget Amendment in place so of what value is this may I ask?
      But best of all the real question is; of what value would a new one be?

      Saddly people its really all over but the mop up now.

      RIP, The United States of Lost Amereica, A land where Liberty was won at the expence of many brave soul’s who gave their life, their wealth, and health to bring Freedom and the birth of a nation based on “Personal Libertys.” AKA ~ FREEDOM.

      It died a slow painful death over its last 110 years lulled into a trance by WORTHLESS STUFF, Tellie’s, cell phones, mindless SPORTS events, Hot Babes, inflated paychecks that looked like you were really making money.
      Yet even with the Million Dollar yearly pay, its value is equal to what a person of lower wealth made in 1860.

      The youth were sent off to war to control its population and they went, the old in fear allowed Social programs that from inside ate away the very CORE of what this nation was founded on.

      This went on until the very fabric of the nation was torn and tattered, yet as the holes grew in size the political class said look away these holes are easy to fix. We will pass a law.

      While the Citizens again lulled into submission gave way to these Clean Shaven Criminals in suits all the LIBERTYS they had in exchange for worthless trinkets, not unlike what the Dutch did with the Natives who lived on what is now NYC.

      Now what was, is no longer, the people gathered in small groups and said we don’t want this! Then the Political class made laws that made their voice illegal. Made their actions ILLEGAL, made the people who pay the TAX’S Criminals.

      All the while building the LEACHS up, and when the TAX payers breaks ranks and says thats not right. They are taken off to jail and smeared in the media as Freaks, Righ Wingers, amoung other absurd insults.

      Well ~ I guess the question of Can Man Rule himself with fair and Equal treatment has benn asked and answered. – “NO.”
      PURE EVIL wins time after time as the peoples fears allow EVIL to grow by way of hate for others, not unlike what the NAZIS did.

      Therefor the new Government has been set in place to control your every move your evey thought, from birth to the GRAVE.

      Welcome to the NEW WORLD ORDER,
      Welcome to the never ending WAR’s
      Welcome to the Brave New World where you will WORK or you will be removed for the GOOD of all.
      Welcome to the world run by the most Wealthy Banking family in the world. And yet many still think its the few that worked hard to make a living that are to blame.
      Why? You were told it was them that did it by the media of what is owned by the worlds Most WEALTHY Banking Family, but the mass’s were to lazy to look into it to find the TRUTH. And thats why we are where we are, the Mass’s are TO LAZY to do anything other than watch.

      WOW its just like having a KING again! So who’s happy now?
      Would you like that SUPER SIZED anyone?

      • Robin from Arcadia, IN

        TIME… At the risk of sounding naive, if there is already a balanced budget amendment in place, who should be enforcing it?

        • TIME

          Hi Robin,

          Please see my answer below James.. Hope all is well with you and your family.

      • James

        Time, Would you please cite the claimed “Balanced Budget Amendment.” I’ve been studying such things for over 50 years now, and I have never seen such a thing. Balancing the budget is a common sense thing. Our problem here is that Congress has been balancing its budget for the last 25 years by borrowing money to cover the amount spent, that exceeds its revenue. And during that time, only the interest on the national debt has been paid. Like individuals who borrow and spend too much, the federal government is now in trouble, and its credit rating is being reviewed for a possible downgrade.

        • TIME

          Hello Jame’s

          Please look into the; “Balanced budget Act August 1997″ when it was signed into law to balance the Nation budget by the year 2002.

          Thanks for your question.

          • James

            Time, Thanks, I will, but you said a “balanced budget amendment” not a law.

  • James

    To suggest that the Executive Branch has the power to rewrite the Constitution with the stroke of a pen, is absurd. The 14th Amendment says the “public debt of the United States…shall not be questioned.” It does not say a president may borrow more money to pay for those debts. And, as Rep. Ted Poe would say: “That’s just the way it is!”

  • George E

    Since the founders intended our government to pay its bills, and Congress hasn’t been able to agree on how to do that, common sense tells me that this President, or any President, might invoke the 14th amendment to pay bills as they come in, but not to do anything more like setting new debt ceilings for any period of time. At the same time, he should scold Congress for spending more money than revenues (even though there is no Constitutional requirement to do so), and remind them of their obligation to govern responsibly, which should include producing balanced budgets on-time. Then, because Congress has acted irresponsibly by spending more money than revenues, he should champion the idea of passing a Constitutional amendment requiring Congress to pass balanced budgets. If he did all of these things, I doubt most people would fault him for issuing an executive order to pay our bills on-time as the Constitution empowers Congress to do. This would be leadership that we could believe in…..

    • Penny Fuentes

      Our Founding Fathers are looking down our “leaders” in our nation with disgust and repulsion. The Founders told us ” We are giving you a Republic, no YOU have to keep it”. If we don’t stop this we will lose an honor we did not deserve.

      • George E

        Penny,

        I’d guess that the founding fathers would not be surprised that our representatives fight like cats and dogs as they did at the beginning of the nation. However, I would expect that they’d be surprised and disappointed that we’ve adopted so many aspects of socialism in our government and culture. Having said that, on balance I’d expect they would be very proud that the form of government they established has survived this long and has helped enable this country to grow and thrive as well as it has for more than 200 years. Not all that bad, if we don’t let it slip away from us now due to our lack of fiscal discipline.

  • JimRed

    Maybe I’m a bit dense this morning, but what does the Equal Protection amendment have to do with raising the debt ceiling?

  • JimRed

    I see; I only read a brief summary of the 14th, and it did not mention the public debt. Thanks James for the clarification.

  • BKWsr

    I do not believe he is going to use the 14 ammendment on budget problems, Its to big of a risk. He is going to use it on the illegal’s in this country to gain their votes in the upcoming election. He is courting the latino’s in the US by claiming its the fault of the Rebublicans that they are not being allowed their rights of citisenship. He’ll do it, and by the time anyone can change what he did it will be to late. He will have already won, and pardon any wrong doing of any of his supporters. Just like he did last time.

    • Ellen

      Sadly, you are probably right. The Dems couldn’t get the DREAM Act passed when they had complete control, yet Obama goes around blaming Repubs. I think this issue is so hot that Obama would lose the election because the anti-immigrant sentiment is a huge national problem. Just look at how many states passed laws about ilegals this year. If Obama thinks he’ll get reelected, he’ll do amnesty after he is elected. If he thinks he’ll lose, he’ll do it before the election. It’s time to work on impeachment.

      • Ken Miller

        What are the charges you would bring against the President for impeachment?

        • Penny Fuentes

          Choose ONE of the MANY charges off the list.

        • James

          Ken M., Obamaa’s birth certificate is being challenged right now in a federal district court. The charge is that it’s a computer generated document, not a real one. Also he is being charged with using several different Social Security numbers, which seems to accentuate the fact that he has no real birth certificate, with which to get his own S.S. number.

      • BrotherPatriot

        Impeachment is there for a valid President.

        He & all that he has implemented against the Consitution and the American public can be reversed if we simply just nullify him. He’s inelligable and what he has been doing is against the will of the vast majority of true American’s. It’s not our interests that he is serving…it’s his & the puppet masters that control him interests.

        Nullify him.

        God Bless.

        • Alex

          The “vast majority of American”—-66 per cent, give or take a point or tw0 in EVERY poll, conservative or otherwise—want to see an INCREASE in the taxes of the wealthiest Amerikans. Overwhelming. So stop your lying, drink some coffee instead of kool-aid, and grow up.

          • Penny Fuentes

            No Alex they don’t. The vst majority do not want increase taxes, they want a President and Congress that Knows how to Cut,Balance and Budget!

          • BrotherPatriot

            Alex…please refer above to my responce to Ken. I address your comment there, Ty.

            P.S. You conveinyantly edited out the word “true” to help your comment. If you quote…please quote correctly, Ty.

            God Bless you.

        • http://Personalliberty Tony

          To BrotherPatriot:
          Obama is a legitimate citizen. Will you knock off with the paranoid
          falsehoods. Attitudes such as this, is going to be the reason why we
          conservatives wll be crushed in 2012. Good Bye!!

          • TIME

            Tony,

            When one fails to do their own backround checks they may come to the same way you seem to see things.
            But if one takes the TIME they will find that Barry has no backround that will hold water.
            I have said this before and I will say it again.

            NOT “ONE single person” has ever come forward and said I know Barry I went to school with him, or Barry was in my class at such and such.
            Not a single persons ever.

            I go places all over the world and I have people stop me even after being out of school for nearly 40 years, yet they recall me.
            I was just in NYC and as most of you know there are Millions of people who live there let alone visit per year. I was at 48th Street Guitars, as I was leaving a Fellow and his wife stopped me and asked if I was who I am, it seems we went to school together in Grade School.
            So at nearly 62 years of age this fellow and his wife remembered me.

            So as it is no one in this nation knows anything about Barry other than the following;
            His name is Barry Soetoro, there is no “LEGAL” record of his name being changed on file in the US.

            We know that he has used at least 10 Social Security numbers all to his address’s over the years.
            That the SS Number he has been using over the last number of years belongs to a man from the North East who died years ago.
            And its from a state that Barry has not lived in not worked in.

            We know for a 100% Fact that his Birth Certificate is a 100% total FAKE as proven by countless computer Experts now.

            Just as in his own book he claims that his father Mr. Obama Sr, was a citizen of Africia. Thus by the standard alone set forth within the Constitution Barry can not hold the office of POTUS.

            So based on just the facts we do have on him, he should be sitting somewhere else, and its not in the Oval Office.

          • BKWsr

            You know time. The problems with all this is the Dem’s, and Libs. Don’t care if he is legal or not. Obama is their savior, their god sent. When Obama finally shows his true stripes to them. Sad day for all of us because those of us capable are the ones they always cry help to.

          • http://liberty Tony

            To Time:
            His birth certificate a ” fake”? Will you please be in touch with reality!! You know what’s going on with Greece, where the extreme right is making head way. Well, thanks to Tea partiers, the extreme left will make head way here. This will be Greece in reverse. Thus, you Tea partiers better be real or all of us Conservatives will pay the price. This is not fair. To other people, i say, don’t confuse the
            Tea Party with responsible conservatives. Thanks!!

          • Ellen

            What responsible adult in America doesn’t have their birth certificate? Obama needed it to get married. Did he lose it after then? The argument that he had to ask for a copy from the State of Hawaii makes no sense. The fact that it took him 2 years to finally get it also makes no sense. And, the fact that he wouldn’t realize that what he presented would be proven to be a fake makes no sense. To top off all this senselessness, there are people who still trust him. They are the uneducated voting base he is depending on.

          • TIME

            Tony,
            There in is the issue I am a “TRUE LIBERAL,” One who believes in FREEDOM as well Personal Libertys.
            I am not a “POSER quasi liberal” who is really only a masked marxist or Progressive.

            Thus what I posted is the TRUTH.

            If you so wish to run from the TRUTH then your no better than the media or the politicians who lie like a rug to the American people daily with a straight face.

            To win at any cost is not winning, its what got us into this bloody mess in the first place, to me thats a point of total loss.

            So what is it you want for folks to jump from the pan into the pot? Of what value will that be in the long run, it only allows more lies to be touted as well spun as truths.

            Only in DC can a victory be touted when your not spending $10 Trillion Dollars, but only $7.5 Trillion.

            WOW now there’s really something to spin on. But if you so wish to play a game when the stakes are the end of the nation then so be it.

          • jibbs

            you are a true idiot, the BC proves he is not a citizen…………Wake up stupid

          • James

            Tony, There is considerable evidence that President Obama does not have a legitimate Social Security number. He has used several S.S. numbers in his lifetime here, which is now being contested in a federal district court. The district court judge has ordered the State of Hawaii to produce Obama’s original birth certificate, if it indeed has one.

        • jibbs

          Tall tree, short rope……..the rope can be re-used many times

          • BrotherPatriot

            As well as the tree…*snickers*…

            I believe that ol’ Andrew Jackson would have drug him out of the White House & strung Barry up himself by now. He was very much against the banks & the kind of people who helped get Obummer into office. (Not that I advocate all AJ did…but on his deathbed he was indeed asked what he felt was his greatest accomplishment and his responce was…”I killed the Bank”. He would spin in his grave if he knew it got reinacted a few short years later…to the detriment of all of us Americans down through the years to come.)

            God Bless.

  • Mutantone

    as stated the law is very clear:
    Amendment 14 – Citizenship Rights. Ratified 7/9/1868. Note History
    4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.
    5. The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.

    • Donald

      It doesn’t say: “Only the Congress shall have the authority…”

      • crisscross

        Here we go again…the slippery slope of the progressive mind that either doesn’t understand the the rules of construction regarding constitutional principles or who chooses to ignore them. This is a small but good example of the divide between those who understand the meaning of “limited” government and separation of powers, and those who continue to distort and expand those principles.

      • TIME

        CC
        Graet POST!!!!!!!!

  • American Citizen

    Spending cuts in this bill are a mirage. They simply cut the amount of increase and called it a cut. The debt is still going to be increased. Monkeys could do a better job up there.

  • George

    ““The conservative justices have long required clear evidence of legal ‘standing’ before opening the courthouse door — something they showed in their recent 5-4 decision rejecting a taxpayer’s challenge to an Arizona school vouchers program — and it’s hard to imagine who could establish enough of a legal injury to establish standing in this case,” the article read.”

    Yes, it’s rather puzzling at times what the court considers to constitute legal standing in a case. One who is required to endure the effects of some legislation is considered to lack standing while environmental groups are granted standing quite readily (though I believe that was by act of Congress). Obviously the court cannot allow just anyone to bring a suit, but the standards are sometimes quite unclear.

    The use of executive orders is necessary on occassion and sometimes even proper, but this President has used executive orders to subvert the Constitution whenever he cannot obtain the imprimatur of Congress. It can be argued that Lincoln’s use of an executive order regarding emancipation was justified due to the rebellion of the southern states and the condition of war, but B O Plenty’s use is simply despotism.

  • Donald

    Why are we talking about this? The problem has already been solved.

    • TML

      The real problem will not be solved until the Federal Reserve is abolished, get rid of central banks, and we return America to a gold standard.

      • TIME

        TML.
        Great post and OH so TRUE!

        People look into it and prove it to yourself, that 70% of all banks world wide are owned by the same Family.
        Again PROVE it to yourselfs, PLEASE don’t take my word for it, but do please be ready to spend a few years peeling back the layers of the onion.

        • TIME

          JFTR – A good place to start is the following,(who got BAIL OUTS.)

      • BrotherPatriot

        Bingo…TML. That is a great spot to being…ROOT level thinking. End the Federal Reserve…do not audit it…do not let it pass GO…simply shut it down & investigate it. In all likelyhood…we can even sue them for all they are worth & use THAT money to not just fix America but the rest of the world as well.

        These people gained all they have through lies deceit, corruption, murder &…oh the list goes on & on & on & on down through history. When Napoleon was about to lose his final battle…riders were sent by the Rothschilds to spread lies in England that he was actually winning. This caused the market to drop…he then was able to buy up all that was important pennies on the pount and 24 hours later when the truth came of Napoleons defeat…England found they had a new ruler. Those who cried foul were either silenced by money or murdered. Lies, deceit & murder is how they started and nothing has changed SINCE!

        Bunch of New World Order social degenerates! >.<

        BUT…but my friends…if we pursue this train of thought…(OK…I can't resist it)…be prepared to go all the way down the rabbit hole & it indeed does lead us directly into the multi-national organization called…The Freemason's. That is the real reason things aren't getting fixed. The Rothschilds, Skull & Bones…these people are not only rich but they have been at their game for a very long time. They teach their children this frame of mind & then send them off to Harvard, Yale, Princeton, etc…to eventually be placed in positions of power throughout the World. They have infiltrated all nations not just at the governmental level but the state & city level as well. This…THIS is why our world is the way that it is…as they pursue their One World Corporation (New World Order) ideal, utopian society. Where they bring back their Feudalistic society. Where the priveleged few get served by the rest of humanity that they control. All the while the cattle that feed them are entertained by reality Tv, the Kardasians or some other Roman style gladiatorial blood match.

        BINGO…Game over.

        God Bless.

  • Larry Pierson

    The 4th clause of the 14th amendment states “The validity of the public debt of the United States … shall not be questioned.” There is no authority for the executive branch to raise the debt ceiling, which as specifically called out in Article I section 8 “To borrow money on the credit of the United States” is for Congress only. The 14th amendment does not mention negating this clause, and since other amendments (notably the 17th) explicitly call out the section of the Constitution that they override, there is no authority in it to do so.

    The 14th amendment, however, does direct him to pay interest on the national debt. Otherwise, he is questioning the debt by not doing so.

    • James

      Larry P., I agree with everything but your last point. The 14th Amendment doesn’t mention the President or ‘interest,’ nor does it stipulate how the debt must be paid. The purpose for the Executive Branch of government is simply to execute the Acts of Congress.

  • http://personalliberty.com The General

    I find it incredible that folks who whine almost daily about “rights”, “freedom”, “non-discrimination” and the like are actually pressing the President to take an obviously illegal and quite dictatorial act – one that could easily fuel resort to more open revolution than we have seen in a long time. I am curious whether Clyburn ever made the argument that Bush should raise the debt ceiling by executive order? I bet not. I remind folks who want to give all this authority to the executive they like – that you may not like the next guy nearly as much, but by then the horse will be out of the barn. There is only a fine line between left-wing fascists and right-wing fascists – both are scary, both too powerful for our constitutional form of government.
    Put simply, the argument that the 14th amendment provides that kind of authority to the executive branch, especially when read in pari materia with the rest of the document, is hogwash. And regarding standing – the House of Representatives would clearly have constitutional Article III standing to challenge this basic infringement of their express powers in the tax and fiscal arena.

  • Oldmonkey

    Obummer has no authority regarding any provision in the 14th Amendment, including the right to modify it. His only abaility is to veto a bill he don’t like. Attempting to excercise power regarding it likely is grounds for impeachment

    • eddie47d

      You are making an assumption about President OBAMA and not stating a fact. Several conservatives have indeed tried to tweak the 14th Amendment regarding the immigration issue so you would do better to chastise them.

      • BKWsr

        Obama just had a meeting with one of the most raceist groups in America (laRaza), and joked with them he might have to do a presidential mandate for imigration reform. I believe the man is serious. He would do it for the votes.

  • Bob Marshall

    No matter how this comes out the citizens are the loser! The can is being kicked down the road at least until election time.

  • John

    Obama can not touch it and if he did that will seal or many seals his fate. One term.WE must kill FEMA on all levels no congress or president can touch.Kill FDA,Faa,irs,atf,funding to national council of La Raza, reduce 90% of federal prisons expense,kill whitehouse expenses,kill all illegal aliens entitlements since 1965 to now. Take A Chainsaw To The Budget
    Posted by John Stossel | July 28, 2011
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    On my show tonight at 10pm, I lay out a way to completely get rid of the deficit.
    I don’t claim to be a budget expert. But others, such as Chris Edwards at Cato and Stuart Butler at Heritage, are. They found lots of serious cuts. My staff found a few more, and put together a list that would completely balance the budget:
    Defense cut by 2/3: $475 billion (Federal Budget, pg. 58)
    Medicare/Medicaid*: $441 billion (Cato Institute)
    Social Security Means Testing: $170 billion (Heritage Foundation)
    Eliminate Dept. of Education (includes Pell Grants): $106.9 billion (Cato Institute)
    Social Security*: $85.7 billion (Cato Institute)
    Eliminate Dept. of Transportation: $84.8 billion (Cato Institute)
    Tax Amnesty: $80 billion (Rep. Jared Polis D-Co.)
    Eliminate Dept. of Labor*: $78.6 billion (Department of Labor and White House)
    Eliminate HUD: $60.8 billion (Cato Institute)
    Eliminate Dept. of Agriculture*: $33 billion (Cato Institute)
    Cut civilian employee compensation: $30 billion (Cato Institute)
    Stop maintaining vacant federal property: $25 billion (Heritage Foundation)
    Eliminate Foreign Aid: $21.2 billion (Cato Institute)
    Eliminate Dept. of Energy*: $20.8 billion (Cato Institute)
    Eliminate NASA: $19.6 billion (Cato Institute)
    Federal Drug War: $15 billion (White House)
    Earmark moratorium: $16 billion (Heritage Foundation)
    Eliminate Fannie/Freddie Subsidies: $14 billion (Federal Housing Finance Agency (p. 10))
    Eliminate Dept. of Commerce: $13.9 billion (Department of Commerce)
    Eliminate Dept. of Interior: $12 billion (White House)
    Legalize Pot, Online gambling, Immigrants: $12 billion (Rep. Jared Polis D-Co.)
    Privatize Army Corps of Engineers: $10.6 billion (Cato Institute)
    Cut federal employee travel budget: $10 billion (Heritage Foundation)
    Eliminate National Science Foundation: $7.4 billion (National Science Foundation)
    End EPA’s State and Local grants: $6.5 billion (Cato Institute)
    Repeal Davis-Bacon: $6 billion (Republican Study Committee)
    Privatize TSA: $5.7 billion (Federal Budget)
    Cut Dept. of Justice’s State and Local grants: $5 billion (Heritage Foundation)
    Privatize Post Office: $4 billion (White House)
    Eliminate Small Business Administration: $1.8 billion (Small Business Administration)
    Lease coastal plain of ANWR: $1.5 billion (Heritage Foundation)
    Eliminate Federal Flood Insurance: $1.3 billion (CBO, pg. 3)
    Abolish SEC: $1.3 billion (SEC)
    Eliminate Corporation for National Community Service: $1 billion (Cato Institute)
    Suspend acquisition of federal office space: $1 billion (Heritage Foundation)
    End subsidies for public broadcasting: $500 million (Cato Institute)
    Eliminate the Neighborhood Reinvestment Corp: $480 million (Heritage Foundation)
    Eliminate the FCC: $439 million (FCC)
    Eliminate the Endowments for Arts/Humanities: $332 million (NEA/NEH)
    Total Cut: $1,882,619,000,000
    Current deficit: $1,645,000,000,000
    Surplus Achieved: $237,619,000,000
    (Research by Maxim Lott and Charles Couger.)
    They don’t need to drive us deeper in debt. They choose to. Tune in tonight at 10pm to see how they could choose differently.

    *Notes
    Department of Energy is eliminated except for Nuclear arms maintenance
    Department of Agriculture is eliminated, except for food programs for the needy
    Department of Labor is eliminated, except for 26-week unemployment benefits
    Defense budget would still be $243 billion, more than twice what the next highest country (China) spends
    Medicare and Medicaid savings breakdown:
    Block grant Medicaid and freeze spending (226)
    Repeal 2010 healthcare law (87)
    Increase Medicare premiums (39.8)
    Cut non-Medicare premiums (37.7)
    Cut Medicare payment error rate by 50% (28.6)
    Increase Medicare deductibles (12.6)
    Tort Reform (10)
    Social Security savings breakdown:
    Price index initial benefits** 41.1
    Raise the normal retirement age** 31.4
    Cut Social Security disability program by 10% 13.2
    TAGS
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    66 Comments

    Read more: http://www.foxbusiness.com/on-air/stossel/blog/2011/07/29/take-chainsaw-budget-2#ixzz1ThPvIVA8 also kill funding to hama, mexican drug cartel, mexican aid, any foreign aid, $500,ooo to kill brown tree snakes in guam,more and more waste.

    • BrotherPatriot

      Really enjoyed your post, John.

      Makes alot of sense…see my outrageous comment above as to why commen sense doesn’t matter until we clear out Washington & replace with Constitution following servants of the American public. There are alot forces in operation that want to keep things as they are…it fits their agenda to destroy the sovereignity of America.

      Divide & conquer. Keep us squabbling while they slowly erode our rights and pass laws that defy logic.

      God Bless & wake up America!

    • James

      John, Great plan! I agree completely.

  • northbrook

    Any acton by this administration to raise the debt limit without the approval of Congress would be unconstitutional and illegal. The 14th amendment only addresses the fact that any legally approved debt incurred by the US must be paid. It does not allow additional debt to be incurred without being authorized by Congress. Obama realizes this and has chosen to act responsibly and let Congress act. Besides if there is a hiccup he then has a scape goat to blame in Congress.

  • chuckb

    ken miller, when eveerything else fails you bolsheviks use the scriptures in an attempt to influence your benign remarks.

  • frick

    Doing what we’ve been doing, expecting different results?
    The republic was abandoned when all Americans became “citizens of the United States” federal government.
    If you recall, prior to the so-called “Civil War”, (an international war in reality) we were not “one nation”…”indivisible”. We were a confederation, a voluntary Union, of separate and independent nation States. Francis Bellamy, a socialist, wrote those words of the Pledge of Allegiance.
    “All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and the State wherein they reside.”—Amendment XIV, Section 1.
    Were the people of the original republic citizens of the federal government? The answer is no. They were not. The federal government had no jurisdiction over the people of the original republic.
    The federal government can only have jurisdiction over federal citizens of the United States federal government.
    ‘Constitutional’ and ‘federal citizen’; oxymoronic. Federal citizenship is anti-constitution, anti-(original)republic.
    If not the republic and republican form of government, what form of government then do citizens of the federal government United States consent to?
    As federal citizens, they, we are consenting to a “national” socialist democracy.
    Democracy being the antithesis of constitutional republic. An anti-republic democracy. Democracy and republic being mutually exclusive, one necessarily destroying the other.
    Republic – Rule of Law – the Constitution.
    Democracy – Rule of Men – the Vote.
    Elected officials in a representative republic are bound by the Constitution, the Supreme Law of the Land.
    Not so in a democracy where elected officials make law through their vote, “living breathing law”. Who can say they have not seen this to be true?
    John Adams said, “Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There was never a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.”
    Suicide meaning ultimate communistic totalitarianism demise.
    “Democracy is indispensable to Socialism.” – V. I. Lenin
    “Socialism leads to Communism.” – Karl Marx
    It’s time to start questioning our indoctrinated paradigms regarding the current form of government we’re participating in.
    http://www.pacinlaw.org
    Mike

    • TIME

      Mike,

      Damm good post dude!

    • BrotherPatriot

      Wow.

  • 45caliber

    Just to add this to the conversation:

    XIV Amendment, Section 4: “The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.”

    This is the ONLY part that says anything of debt. And I personally fail to see why the Dems believe Oblama has the right to raise the debt level from what this says.

    • James

      45caliber, They don’t really believe that. They’re just trying to convince Americans that the President has that power. If enough people start chanting for him to do that, they might get away with it.

  • frick

    “All men are created equal.”
    Americans were free men. And free men are free to place themselves into ‘voluntary servitude’. “Involuntary servitude” is unlawful in America.
    “Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, … shall exist within the United States.”
    —13th Amendment—
    Can any man subject to compelled and coerced taxation honestly be considered free?
    Of course not. The question then is, is that servitude voluntary, or involuntary?
    This is the nature of federal citizenship under the Fourteenth Amendment as stated by the Supreme Court of the United States: ‘It is the natural consequence of a citizenship [92 U.S. 542, 551] which owes allegiance to two sovereignties, and claims protection from both. The citizen cannot complain, because he has voluntarily submitted himself to such a form of government. He owes allegiance to the two departments, so to speak, and within their respective spheres must pay the penalties which each exacts for disobedience to its laws.’ U.S. v. Cruikshank, 92 U.S. 542 (1875)
    Obviously it is presumed to be voluntary servitude.
    http://www.notmygovernment.us
    Mike

  • Rev Richard Stewart

    Would someone please publish the 14th Amendment and the circumstances for which it was written, and the year it was written and ratified

    • James

      Rev. Stewart, The 14th Amendment was ratified July 9, 1868. This was just three years after the Civil War (1861-1865) ended. Section 1 pertained to the just freed slaves, it made them “citizens of the United States and the State wherein they reside.” Section 2 and 3 are about Congress; Section 4 is about the public debt and obligations to previous slave ownsers, for their loss of property. And Section 5 gave Congress the power to enforce the provisions of this amendment.
      If you do a search for “14th Amendment” and click on a’government’ source, you can read it.

  • frick

    Passed by a “rump” Congress during the “Reconstruction”, June 13, 1866.
    The 14th Amendment, unlawfully instituted “ratified” July 9, 1868.
    Mike

  • frick

    Other servitude that may be considered “involuntary” would be federal income tax, property tax, Social Security (or FICA) tax, traffic fines, oh, this list can go on and on.
    But the point I wish to make;
    As Harry Reid once claimed: “our system of government is a voluntary tax system”.
    What I think he was referring to, (through double speak), while in an interview about whether or not income tax was voluntary, was federal citizenship. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7mRSI8yWwg&playnext=1&list=PL475EDDA6F157D3BA
    Federal citizenship, or “citizen of the United States” federal government, is voluntary. All so-called ‘involuntary servitude’ associated with being a federal citizen, is then mandatory.
    Were the people of the (original) constitutional republic citizens of the federal government? Of course, they were not.
    So you see, as I see it, “involuntary servitude” is unlawful, as stated in the 13th Amendment. This would imply that “voluntary servitude” is then a possibility. Aren’t free men free to place themselves into servitude?
    Once free men have done just that. They have “voluntarily” remained federal citizens after the 14th Amendment declared them to be federal citizens, thus “voluntarily” putting themselves into servitude. “Voluntary Servitude.”
    The solution then becomes elementary, the federal citizen must remove himself from federal citizenship if he wishes to remove himself from “voluntary servitude”.
    Mike

    • Shirley

      Please explain to me how a mandated balanced budget will work? How do you plan for a hurricane, a wildfire, an invasion of terrorists? How do you write it in the National Budget? How do you provide our troops what they need in times of war when you cannot really project how long it will last, how many troops will be needed over the long haul, how many soldiers will be wounded and what level of care will they need, how many drones will we need and on and on? How can you predict the near collapse of Wall Street and know how much to budget for the crisis? Of course, we must trim back the spending but we need people who are experts to study the situation, make recommendations and most importantly we need LEADERS who will do what is right for the people of this country not just follow the party line script. Explain to me why a retired school teacher pays a higher tax rate than a millionaire CEO of a large company?

      • frick

        We need a LEADER? Indeed, should this leader have a monopoly on the initiation of violence and force? That’s exactly what a LEADER in a socialist democracy has.

        “As long as mankind continue to pay “national debts,” so-called-that is, so long as they are such dupes and cowards as to pay for being cheated, plundered, enslaved, and murdered-so long there will be enough to lend the money for those purposes; and with that money a plenty of tools, called soldiers, can be hired to keep them in subjection. But when they refuse any longer to pay for being thus cheated, plundered, enslaved, and murdered, they will cease to have cheats, and usurpers, and robbers, and murderers and blood-money loan-mongers for masters.”
        —Lysander Spooner, “No Treason”—

        http://www.pacinlaw.org
        Mike

      • James

        Shirley, Good point! A balanced budget simply means spending no more than one’s income. If something unforseen happens, like we’re attacked, Congress can raise taxes to balance its budget or sell Treasury Bonds to foreignerrs. But after the war, and its debts are paid for, they should go back to living within their means.

  • iam

    Are we supposed to believe that the Constitution suddenly has relevance in the opinion of someone who has stated repeatedly that it has none?

  • chuckb

    frisk, in reference to harry reid, you are right, all double talk. so what do we do to get this country straightened out?

  • frick

    chuckb,
    Americans must learn the difference between the original constitutional republic form of government prior to the 14th Amendment, and the national socialist democracy form of government they are citizens of today, post 14th Amendment.
    Once one knows the difference the problem and solution becomes self evedent.
    It’s a matter of nationality actualy; is one a national of the state United States, or a national of one of the republic nation States.
    Therin is the difference in structure of form of government, constitutional republic or democracy.
    We’ve been indoctrinated that democracy is a good thing while the original US Constitution outlawed democracy.
    http://www.pacinlaw.org
    Mike

    • BrotherPatriot

      Yep…many of us on this site have been saying this for sometime. That if the majority of American’s today were asked what form of government we had…many would answer that it is a Democracy when in fact we have a Constitutional Republic. (Or are supposed to have.)

      It is this way because those that are following the “agenda” have slowly been eroding the Sovereignity of America on purpose. They have been at this for a very long time. They are working us over on multiple levels. Sooo…for the past 100 years they have been using their tools (the media, entertainment) to put a spin on what a great Democracy we have. Say this lie long enough and even though it’s a lie…people begin to believe it. Say this long enough and then those people’s children’s children begin to say it. This now is where we are.

      ROOT level thinking. It’s only complicated because we are letting these social degenerates tell us that it all this & all that. They are making it complicated on reason to help muddy up the waters. If we just take it down to the ROOT level & start fixing things…all the other problems they talk about will go away.

      Bring GOD back into your lives, America. Only through him and a return to fundamental thinking can we save America as we believed her to be.

      I leave you to think on this. Why is the Constitution & the Bill of Rights such short documents?

      It’s K.I.S.S…just Keep It Simple Stupid. Worked well for them & it can work well for us also. We should revisit the “Admendments” and them all through the common sense filter…imho. I believe that would help fix a lot of things also.

      God Bless.

      • frick

        It’s as simple as “Love thy neighbor as thy self.”
        “All men are created equal.”

        • BrotherPatriot

          Agreed, brother.

          In the end…we are all…One.

          God Bless.

  • CJM

    The 14th Amendment does NOT EMPOWER THE PRESIDENT TO DO ANYTHING…It gives CONGRESS the power to enforce the Amendment, period. There is nothing in either of the 5 Sections that allows the President to write laws, enforce laws, or make a decision without congressioal approval. If obama makes a decision without congressional approval, he is over-reaching his Constitutinal duties.

  • frick

    CJM,
    What you are refering to is the constitutional republic form of government. The mere fact that you (as is all Americans for the most part) are a “citizen of the United States” federal government, thus giving your consent to a national democracy form of government whereby the President (or Congress) is not bound by the organic (original) Constitution. Remember, governments are instituted by the consent of the governed.
    Mike

  • frick

    “All men are created equal.”
    Americans were free men. And free men are free to place themselves into ‘voluntary servitude’. “Involuntary servitude” is unlawful in America.
    “Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, … shall exist within the United States.”
    —13th Amendment—
    Can any man subject to compelled and coerced taxation honestly be considered free?
    Of course not. The question then is, is that servitude voluntary, or involuntary?
    This is the nature of federal citizenship under the Fourteenth Amendment as stated by the Supreme Court of the United States: ‘It is the natural consequence of a citizenship [92 U.S. 542, 551] which owes allegiance to two sovereignties, and claims protection from both. The citizen cannot complain, because he has voluntarily submitted himself to such a form of government. He owes allegiance to the two departments, so to speak, and within their respective spheres must pay the penalties which each exacts for disobedience to its laws.’ U.S. v. Cruikshank, 92 U.S. 542 (1875)
    Obviously it is presumed to be voluntary servitude.
    Did you not sign a SS-5 form, placing yourself into the federal Social Security system?

    Did you sign your child’s Birth Certificate?

    Did you claim under penalty of perjury to be a “citizen of the US” (federal government)? Check your voter registration, or your bank account agreements.

    There are many other voluntary agreements as well.

    One can claim constitutional protected unalienable Rights till the cows come home.

    But voluntary contracts supersede the Constitution.
    This is the unseen cage in which Americans find themselves.

    The solution then is elementary. However, actually releasing oneself from his self inflicted obligations is quite another matter entirely.

    “None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.”
    ~ Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

    • BrotherPatriot

      I don’t care how anyone puts it…I have never placed myself under voluntary cervitude. I don’t care how anyone want’s to label it, read it under law…whatever.

      I would fight tooth & nail and never submit to their “interpretation” of how they want to see it. Even if told that “legally” I have submitted…I would say that I have not. It’s only through double talk & wicked means have they been able to be inna position to try & claim what it is you are saying they can claim to say.

      Hell NO!

      According to how I have been raised…believing that I am a free man and now a veteran of my country…I will say with my last breath that what is being done to myself & my countrymen is illegal, immoral & against God.

      I also know that I my voice would not be alone.

      God Bless & Ty frick for your informative posts!

      • frick

        “We have met the enemy, and he is us.”

        “All men are created equal.” means exactly the same thing as “Love thy neighbor as thy self.” and the same as “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.”

        Anyone who might be taking a benefit (entitlement?) from the government is receiving that benefit at the expense (by the threat of the use of violence)of his neighbor.
        2+2=? You do the math.

        Did you not sign a SS-5 form, placing yourself into the federal Social Security system?

        Did you sign your child’s Birth Certificate?

        Did you claim under penalty of perjury to be a “citizen of the US” (federal government)? Check your voter registration, or your bank account agreements.

        There are many other voluntary agreements as well.

        One can claim constitutional protected unalienable Rights till the cows come home.

        But voluntary contracts supersede the Constitution.
        This is the unseen cage in which Americans find themselves.

        Truth hurts sometimes.
        But it’s time to face the music.
        We are the problem, and we are the solution.
        http://www.pacinlaw.org
        Mike

  • chuckb

    frick, i don’t think under the circumstance we could operate as a constitutional republic, we have too many people who are bound to the welfare state, in fact i don’t think we can survive much further under the present day politics. a nation led by fools.

  • frick

    I doubt many would disagree with you chuckb. Robbing Peter to pay Paul is the socialistic democracy we find ourselves in today. And of course the democracy is getting its support from Paul. However, Peter and Paul are both consenting to this socialistic democracy form of government by remaining “citizens of the United States” federal government. Shouldn’t Peter wise up, and soon?
    http://www.notmygovernment.us
    Mike

  • chuckb

    frick, thank for websites.

  • Shirley

    I am truly worried about the name-calling and the hatred expressed in these comments!! Come on people, what useful purpose does it serve? Somehow, the truth gets so twisted that people don’t see anything but what they make up or what they hear some agenda driven talking-head. I truly wish that these blogs could be more civil. You are feeding on the hate machine and it will destroy us all! Again, I encourage each of us to be more respectful of ourselves and others.

  • Bert Cundle

    Government has this “Apple” Called Revenue… Put a Worm in it, and call the worm Debt! Making the Woum bigger does not make the Apple better!

  • Bert Cundle

    The Real Problem!: Bussiness needs to borrow $ to increese their Production & $ & Hire Construction People. Sales People, Maintainance People, So the Government is going to loan them or back their loan, with our tax $??? So the bussiness wins Government wins we loose…

  • chuckb

    shirely, you are making a mountain out of mole hill. most of the name calling is directed at barry and the bolsheviks. i think that is reasonable, they are the ones that have caused this mess. i have a few names for the repubs they just sold us down the river, most did what they said they wouldn’t do. this is no time to start trying to pacify the troops, these crooks in washington deserve more than a few names.

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