Is It Wrong To Be Anti-Government?

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It is natural for a society to search for explanations and motivations in the wake of a man-made tragedy. It is also somewhat natural for people to be driven by their personal biases when looking for someone or something to blame. In recent years, however, our country has been carefully conditioned to view almost every criminal event from an ideological perspective.

Gadsden Flag

The mainstream media now place far more emphasis on the political affiliations and philosophies of “madmen” than it does on their personal disorders and psychosis. The media’s goal, or mission, if you will, is to associate every dark deed whether real or engineered to the political enemies of the establishment, and to make the actions of each individual the collective shame of an entire group of people.

I could sift through a long list of terror attacks and mass shootings in which the establishment media immediately jumped to the conclusion that the perpetrators were inspired by the beliefs of Constitutional conservatives, “conspiracy theorists”, patriots, etc. It is clear to anyone paying attention that the system is going out of its way to demonize those who question the officially sanctioned story, or the officially sanctioned world view. The circus surrounding the latest shooting of multiple TSA agents at Los Angeles International Airport is a perfect example.

Paul Ciancia, the primary suspect in the shooting, was immediately tied to the Liberty Movement by media outlets and the Southern Poverty Law Center, by notes (which we still have yet to see proof of) that law enforcement claims to have found on his person. The notes allegedly use terms such as “New World Order” and “fiat money”, commonly covered by those of us in the alternative media. The assertion is, of course, that Paul Ciancia is just the beginning, and that most if not all of us involved in the exposure of the globalist agenda are powder kegs just waiting to “go off.” The label most used by the MSM to profile people like Ciancia and marginalize the organizational efforts of liberty based culture is “anti-government.”

The establishment desires to acclimate Americans to the idea that being anti-government is wrong; that it is a despicable philosophy embracing social deviance, aimless violence, isolation and zealotry. Looking beyond the mainstream position, my question is, is it really such a bad thing to be anti-government today?

Conspiracy Realists

The terms “anti-government” and “conspiracy theorist” are almost always used in the same paragraph when mainstream media pundits espouse their propaganda. They are nothing more than ad hominem labels designed to play on the presumptions of the general population, manipulating them into dismissing any and all alternative viewpoints before they are ever heard or explained. The establishment and the media are ill-equipped to debate us on fair terms, and understand that they will lose control if Americans are allowed to hear what we have to say in a balanced forum. Therefore, their only fallback is to bury the public in lies so thick they won’t want to listen to us at all.

The Liberty Movement now has the upper hand in the war for information. The exposure of multiple conspiracies in the past several years alone has given immense weight to our stance, and reaffirmed warnings we gave long ago. When we spoke out against the invasion of Iraq, commissioned by George W. Bush on the dubious claim that Iraqi weapons of mass destruction were an immediate threat to the security of our nation, we were called “liberals” and “traitors.”

Today, Bush and Cheney have both openly admitted that no WMD’s were ever present in the region. When we attempted to educate the masses on the widespread surveillance of innocent people by the NSA, some of them laughed. Today, it is common knowledge that all electronic communications are monitored by the Federal government. When we refused to accept the official story behind the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives’ Fast and Furious program, we were called “kooks”. Today, it is common knowledge that the Barack Obama Administration purposely allowed U.S. arms to fall into the hands of Mexican cartels. When we roared over the obvious hand the White House played in the Benghazi attack, we were labeled “racists” and “right wing extremists.” Today, it is common knowledge that the White House ordered military response units to stand down and allow the attack to take place. I could go on and on…

Events that were called “conspiracy theory” by the mainstream yesterday are now historical fact today. Have we ever received an apology for this slander? No, of course not, and we don’t expect one will ever surface. We have already gained something far more important – legitimacy.

And what about Paul Ciancia’s apparent belief in the dangers of the “New World Order” and “fiat money”? Are these “conspiracy theories”, or conspiracy realism? The Liberty Movement didn’t coin the phrase “New World Order”, these political and corporate “luminaries” did:

Is economic collapse really just a fairytale perpetrated by “anti-government extremists” bent on fear mongering and dividing society? Why not ask the Obama Administration, which just last month proclaimed that “economic chaos” would result if Republicans did not agree to raise the debt ceiling.

Does this make Barack Obama and the Democratic elite “conspiracy theorists” as well? Or perhaps we should ask Alan Greenspan, who now openly admits that he and the private Federal Reserve knew full well they had helped engineer the housing bubble which eventually imploded during the derivatives collapse of 2008.

It is undeniable that government conspiracies and corporate conspiracies exist, and have caused unquantifiable pain to the American people and the people of the world. Knowing this, is it not natural that many citizens would adopt anti-government views in response? Is it wrong to distrust a criminal individual or a criminal enterprise? Why would it be wrong to distrust a criminal government?

The Purpose Behind The Anti-Government Label

When the establishment mainstream applies the anti-government label, they are hoping to achieve several levels propaganda. Here are just a few:

False Association: By placing the alleged “anti-government” views of violent people in the spotlight, the establishment is asserting that it is the political philosophy, not the individual, that is the problem. They are also asserting that other people who hold similar beliefs are guilty by association. That is to say, the actions of one man now become the trespasses of all those who share his ideology. This tactic is only applied by the media to those on the conservative end of the spectrum, as it was with Paul Ciancia. For example, when it was discovered that Arizona mass shooter Jared Loughner was actually a leftist, the MSM did not attempt to tie his actions to liberals in general. Why? Because the left is not a threat to the elitist oligarchy within our government. Constitutional conservatives, on the other hand, are.

False Generalization: The term “anti-government” is so broad that, like the term “terrorist”, it can be applied to almost anyone for any reason. The establishment does not want you to distinguish between those who are anti-government for the wrong reasons, and those who are anti-government for the right reasons. Anyone who questions the status quo becomes the enemy regardless of their motives or logic. By demonizing the idea of being anti-government, the establishment manipulates the public into assuming that all government by extension is good, or at least necessary, when the facts actually suggest that most government is neither good or necessary.

False Assertion: The negative connotations surrounding the anti-government stance also suggest that anyone who defends themselves or their principles against government tyranny, whether rationally justified or not, is an evil person. Just look at how Washington D.C. has treated Edward Snowden. Numerous political elites have suggested trying the whistle-blower for treason, or assassinating him outright without due process, even though Snowden’s only crime was to expose the criminal mass surveillance of the American people by the government itself. Rather than apologizing for their corruption, the government would rather destroy anyone who exposes the truth.

False Shame: Does government criminality call for behavior like that allegedly taken by Paul Ciancia? His particular action was not morally honorable or even effective, and was apparently driven more by personal psychological turmoil rather than political affiliation. But, would it be wrong for morally sound and rational Americans facing imminent despotism within government to physically fight back? Would it be wrong to enter into combat with a totalitarian system? The Founding Fathers did, but only after they had exhausted all other avenues, and only after they had broken away from dependence on the system they had sought to fight. Being anti-government does not mean one is a violent and dangerous person. It does mean, though, that there will come a point at which we will not allow government to further erode our freedoms. We will not and should not feel shame in making that stand.

I do not agree with every element of the “anti-government” ethos that exists in our era, but I do see the vast majority of reasons behind it as legitimate. If the establishment really desired to quell the quickly growing anti-government methodology, then they would stop committing Constitutional atrocities and stop giving the public so many causes to hate them. If they continue with their vicious bid to erase civil liberties, dominate the citizenry through fear and intimidation and steal and murder in our name, then our response will inevitably be “anti-government”, and we will inevitably move to end the system as we know it.

 

-Brandon Smith

Personal Liberty

Brandon Smith

is the founder of the Alternative Market Project, an organization designed to help you find like-minded activists and preppers in your local area so that you can network and construct communities for barter and mutual aid. Join Alt-Market.com today and learn what it means to step away from the unstable mainstream system and build something better. You can contact Brandon Smith at: brandon@alt-market.com

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  • vicki

    We are NOT anti-government. We ARE anti-Tyranny. That is why we fight to protect and defend the U.S. Constitution.

    • http://batman-news.com samurai

      True that! True that! Keep up the good fight fellow patriot. Give no quarter and take no quarter! Here is an example of Governor Rick Perry standing up to Obama bin Laden.

      http://www.teapartyeconomist.com/2013/11/07/obamacare-showdown-texas-obama-vs-perry/

      Protect and defend the Constitution and our Christian founding. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

      You need both love of country and faith in GOD to be a patriot.

      “I have not yet begun to fight!”

      John Paul Jones

      • ward

        Bin Laden another one of [ wannabe king ] deceitful lies that did not happen ; bin laden died of kidney failure in a cave 9/4/ 2006 ……! That is why the hurry up burial @ sea that nobody witnessed ETC……!

  • marcdepiolenc

    Question: What is government? It is an institution, unique among the institutions of Mankind in claiming the exclusive right to use force without provocation against its slaves (“citizens”), and sometimes against other governments’ slaves as well..
    Question: What decent human being, understanding the above, would NOT be “anti-government?”

  • Mikebark

    I just realized for the first time, having never considered this before, that there is a right wing and a left wing to people with an anti-government bent. I am conservative in this belief. I dislike big government, and believe that laws should be kept to a minimum in all levels of government. I believe in the freedom of people and their enterprises and despise most government regulations. I feel that every time government writes a new law, that ten should be repealed.

    But I stop short when I hear talk about new world order and the Bilderbergs and the like. Generally, if the anti-government rhetoric is about a conservative politician that I like, I consider the speaker to be a crazy conspiracy theorist, but if the negative commentary is about a liberal politician, I consider the speaker a patriot.

    The passage about the WMD’s shook me. All of a sudden, I wondered what group I was associating with. I believe to this day that the WMD’s existed, that they were moved in the interim that President Bush was pressed to present our case to the United Nations.

    I am dismayed to find that I have strayed into that group of conspiracy theorists and if I find that this group is liberal leaning I intend to quickly find an exit.

  • Mikebark

    I just realized for the first time, having never considered this before, that there is a right wing and a left wing to people with an anti-government bent. I am conservative in this belief. I dislike big government, and believe that laws should be kept to a minimum in all levels of government. I believe in the freedom of people and their enterprises and despise most government regulations. I feel that every time government writes a new law, that ten should be repealed.

    But I stop short when I hear talk about new world order and the Bilderbergs and the like. Generally, if the anti-government rhetoric is about a conservative politician that I like, I consider the speaker to be a crazy conspiracy theorist, but if the negative commentary is about a liberal politician, I consider the speaker a patriot.

    The passage about the WMD’s shook me. All of a sudden, I wondered what group I was associating with. I believe to this day that the WMD’s existed, that they were moved in the interim that President Bush was pressed to present our case to the United Nations.

    I am dismayed to find that I have strayed into that group of conspiracy theorists and if I find that this group is liberal leaning I intend to quickly find an exit.

    • 4thHorseman of the Confederacy

      Welcome aboard…stick to your “guns”. Our overly-obese govt is not our friend. The media will label us as crackpots and the NDAA was specially designed for Americans by “Americans”. How most people refuse to see what is really happening is beyond me. Keep your districts elected ones close at hand, hold them accountable. Remember, they work for you

      • Mikebark

        It has been to the point for some time now that I do not have to say my name when I call my representatives. They recognize my voice.

        • 4thHorseman of the Confederacy

          Sweet! Same here, I think the secretaries have caller i.d. and have a sense of dread when I call…I stay on top of them, or at least try to. They work for me

    • Matforce

      I was a staunch supporter of the GOP until March of 2011; that was when life slowed down for me, and I began to look into their voting records. While I based my support on their stated positions on conservative social issues (religious/moral in nature), I hadn’t looked into how they voted on policies that have handed unprecedented favor and political power over to large corporate entities. Policies that have led to the consolidation of wealth at the top like we haven’t seen in a century.

      National policies that have favored Free Trade Agreements (treaties like NAFTA, GATT, WTO and the upcoming TPP some are calling NAFTA on sterioids), Financial rulings (too big to fail), deregulation (Gramm, Leach, Bliley, Act), Citizens United vs. The Federal Election Commission, tax loopholes (exemptions, credits, itemized deductions, subsidies that incentivize the offshoring of jobs to sweatshops on foreign soil), tax rate on the top earners (carried interest, capital gains rates, etc.) have given this nation over to corporate interests over that of the middle class at every turn. There must be a balance!

      When you look into the voting records of the Congressional Representatives, Republicans overwhelmingly offer up the middle class as the sacrificial lamb to corporate interest every time, subjecting more and more downward pressure on the high wage of the USA worker (consumer) as they grant more and more favor to corporate interest.

      http://www.ted.com/talks/paddy_ashdown_the_global_power_shift.html

      • dan

        agree…but they couldn’t have done it without a Demo controlled House and Senate and occasional Dictator in chief to appoint Czars and such that do the REAL enslaving through their rules /regulations and inerpretations . Even the Fed was esentially appointed while the Representatives were away on Christmas vacation. Now the Pres can asune dictatorial powers by declring a war against somethin/one or an undefined emergency….but these are unconstitutional laws/PDD’s
        and so should be null and void.

      • dan

        agree…but they couldn’t have done it without a Demo controlled House and Senate and occasional Dictator in chief to appoint Czars and such that do the REAL enslaving through their rules /regulations and inerpretations . Even the Fed was esentially appointed while the Representatives were away on Christmas vacation. Now the Pres can asune dictatorial powers by declring a war against somethin/one or an undefined emergency….but these are unconstitutional laws/PDD’s
        and so should be null and void.

        • Rich39

          Have you ever notice that the people who don’t like Obama writes the same thing, uses the same words, phases and terms. They are pawns of a certain anti American group.

          • WTS/JAY

            Have you ever noticed that the people who worship Obama write the same things, use the same words, phrases and terms. They are pawns of a certain anti- Freedom group!

          • 5live5

            Have you ever noticed that people that support Ohbummer talk with a nasal twang because their nose is stuck up OHbummers wazoo???

          • ward

            sounds more like Rich39 doesn’t it???….?

          • Jana

            People who do like Obama are not necessarily Socialists, but as Vladimir Lenin says,” are the useful idiots who promote the Socialist agenda which is the first and necessary step toward Communism.”

      • Mikebark

        See, now you would be an example of the liberal side of the anti-government forces, If you are actually anti-government at all. Part of the freedom I talked about is that of being able to enjoy the fruits of your labor. The conspiracy theorists believe that all money belongs to the government, that it is a limited supply, and that the rich are hoarding it all. I believe the opposite. I believe that money is a vast limitless ocean that we are all welcome to dip into using our Labour as our buckets, and I personally am too busy dipping to worry about how much the other guy has dipped out.

        • Matforce

          Our government is the ONLY entity that CAN intercede in this 30 year move toward Plutocracy, if they choose to do so. The US Government was designed to represent the collective interests of “we the people” (of, for and by the people), not “we the corporations” and those who reside at the top of the food chain.
          In my opinion, “the people” have been deceived with the divisive, disingenuous, contemptible lies (noise and propaganda) that are used to keep the true usurpers of our freedoms from being disclosed (ALEC, Americans for Prosperity, The Heritage Foundation, the Kochs, Roves, etc. all use this method) Google: “The Integration of Theory and Practice” by Weyrich and Heubeck. Why? So they can slither into the shadows and escape the scrutiny of a lazy, complacent populous should they be stirred from their slumbers and fix their focus on how entirely they’ve been sold out.

        • Matforce

          Our government is the ONLY entity that CAN intercede in this 30 year move toward Plutocracy, if they choose to do so. The US Government was designed to represent the collective interests of “we the people” (of, for and by the people), not “we the corporations” and those who reside at the top of the food chain.
          In my opinion, “the people” have been deceived with the divisive, disingenuous, contemptible lies (noise and propaganda) that are used to keep the true usurpers of our freedoms from being disclosed (ALEC, Americans for Prosperity, The Heritage Foundation, the Kochs, Roves, etc. all use this method) Google: “The Integration of Theory and Practice” by Weyrich and Heubeck. Why? So they can slither into the shadows and escape the scrutiny of a lazy, complacent populous should they be stirred from their slumbers and fix their focus on how entirely they’ve been sold out.

          • Mikebark

            I think that you do not understand what a corporation is. You talk about them as if they are some huge evil entities that are simply bent on destruction of the United States and have no other purpose for existence. I challenge you to tell us here what a corporation really is.

          • Matforce

            When I mention corporations, I am referring to those magnates that have evolved into multinational status, and therefore answer to no mere nation. Multinationals who occupy headquarters in the USA and benefit from all that she has to offer, but who hold shell offices on foreign soil. Corporations who extract most of their profits from the mighty, but declining USA middle class consumer market, but park these $$$TRILLIONS in offshore tax havens.
            Corporations’ lobbyists, donors, and their consultants, nonetheless occupy an inordinate amount of time, and space in, and gain an exorbitant amount of attention from our elected officials who form bills and vote on the policies these bills bring into law; these laws set the rules that “govern” the whole ball game.

          • Mikebark

            Yep, I thought so! And as you are typing this, you are no doubt sitting on the street in front of the stock exchange with an occupy wall street protest sign lying by your side.
            No, young man, that is NOT the definition of a corporation. A corporation is an individual or group who own a registered business. Once the business is registered, it’s existence can continue even though the original creators exchange ownership. The size of that corporation depends upon the popularity of their product. The responsibility of the owners is to ensure the well being of the business for it’s stockholders(owners). It is easy to become an owner, just buy stock! As an owner, you may want to protect the assets of your business by supporting politicians who will keep your taxes low and onerous regulations few. Not doing so will lead to bankruptcy.
            Do you know anybody who is employed by a corporation? If so, then you can see that they are a benefit. You should do all you can to encourage their growth because they employ your neighbors (but not you, as you are too busy protesting them on wall street.)

          • Matforce

            First off, Mike, let’s understand one another. I’m not a young man. I lived through the Eisenhower and Kennedy years when marginal rates were set a 90% and to get a tax break, our vast wealth was invested in the USA. USA stocks, bonds, R&D, NASA, pharma, entrepreneurs, the financial sector, USA Parks, etc., etc. etc., in other words, their wealth was channeled back into the USA, while the big bad government that received revenue from the wealthy, in addition to the revenue from what was, thanks to policies coming out of Washington, becoming the world’s largest middle class consumer market (revenue comes right off their pay-checks; none of the loopholes our tax code provides for the wealthy) took that revenue and invested it in the largest expansion in USA infrastructure we’ve ever encountered, and some years in the 50s and 60s, we STILL, remarkably, had budget surpluses. No more! They’re getting their breaks up front in the form record low tax rates and loopholes that bring their tax rate to half that of the stretched to the breaking point middle class rates. No need to invest in the USA anymore, in fact the best game on the street is through the multinational conglomerates and the financial institutions that straddle the globe. Why invest in the USA? Plus, to avoid taxation, they move their $$$TRILLIONS in profits offshore in tax havens to stiff America the beautiful.

            A lawyer employed by the World Bank, whose job it was to certify financial statements, blew the whistle on security fraud worth $180 BILLION that was not disclosed to bond holders whose holdings were being used illegally under the auspices of being used to fight global hunger, when in actuality, they were diverted to float failing banks the world over (sound familiar?). They discovered that a mega-conglomerate of most of the world’s banking institutions are working together to corner the market on the world’s wealth.
            According to a very accurate account undertaken by the “Federal Institute of Technology” out of Switzerland, a team of mathematicians looked at data on 43,000 companies traded on the international market and reported that through the clever incorporation of these financial institutions (world’s central banks), they managed to grab 40% of the assets of all of the prime companies traded on the capital markets of the world, and thereby own 60% of their earnings every year. They reside over and above any mere national entity and have entered a realm called “State Capture.” And you hot heads rant and rave about national sovereignty and personal freedoms, while the very institutions you enshrine have conspired to imprison us all.

            What nation has the largest economy (but declining) and military? How do you bring a strident nation like this to her knees? Through finance. How? Through FTA treaties, thus the evolution of multinational corporatism, and the conglomeration of financial institutions and the fed that work to benefit institutions like the World Bank, IMF and other inter-corporate conglomerates that will eventually own us all. Did you look at the Paddy Ashdown clip? Bah, what’s the use?

          • Mikebark

            Sorry, my eyes glazed over when I tried to read your second totally incoherent sentence. I do not speak “liberal conspiracy theorist” very well, I’m afraid.

          • Matforce

            LOL So you’re lazy? Go ahead; research every claim. That’s how you learn, young man.

          • Mikebark

            I admit, I do not have the initiative to research all 5000+ things you mentioned in three paragraphs. Maybe a left winger with more ambition than I enjoy can take up the task. As for me, I’ll just mark your post down to “if you can’t dazzle them with brilliance, then baffle them with bulls**t.”

          • WTS/JAY

            Outstanding!!!

        • Muffin Man Mashinksy

          If souls would only realize that all true blessings flow from God, not the govt. & there is limitless abundance with God, many would be lifted out of poverty & pols could not play that 1% vs. 99% BS game

          INNER MEANING (True meaning) of Government=”GOD OVER MEN”….no system no matter how good on paper will work if the leaders & citizens are not walking with God, earnestly & consistently seeking his counsel & yearning to do His Holy Will, it will never work

      • Muffin Man Mashinksy

        Both sides have betrayed us….Truth be told, political parties & darn labels should have no part in this Republic!!!

        • TheOriginalDaveH

          I think that Branding has its benefits. It gives people who don’t want to take the time to vet every candidate, a reasonable way to make a somewhat informed vote.
          Of course, ideally, we would all take the time to carefully screen each candidate. But this isn’t an ideal world.
          Meanwhile one Brand that stands above the others:
          http://www.lp.org/
          http://www.lp.org/platform

          • Muffin Man Mashinksy

            I solidly stand with you, Dave The Rave!

    • vicki

      The WMD’s were quite real and there were 8+ weeks of warning for Iraq to get them out of the country.

      http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/sep/18/inside-the-ring-syria-iraq-and-weapons-of-mass-des/?page=all

      • Sarah417

        And the fact that Cheney and Bush are on record as saying that they were lied to. There were no WMD. Has no bearing on your thinking?

      • Sarah417

        And the fact that Cheney and Bush are on record as saying that they were lied to. There were no WMD. Has no bearing on your thinking?

        • Mikebark

          A book for you to read “Saddam’s Secrets”by General Georges Sada available for download from Amazon should explain about the WMD’s quite succinctly. As I recall, they only said that we could not find them, which only stands to reason. If you were a cop, and knocked on the door of a crack house, and told them that next week you were coming back to raid the place, what do you think you’d find when you came back? When Bush was ready to raid Iraq, Hillary and Kerry kept screaming that we needed to go to the UN first. So while Bush wasted 3 months arguing with the UN, Saddam was busy cleaning house.

          • Muffin Man Mashinksy

            I agree with you 100%!

        • Jana

          The fact that my brother in law saw a warehouse full of WMD’s means that I haven’t changed my mind at all!!!

        • vicki

          Why yes it did. Politicians lie. 8 weeks. Do the math.

          • Sarah417

            OK. We agree. Politicians do lie but it would have been to their advantage to say “There were WMD but they shipped them out before we got there” instead of “We were lied to, there were no WMD.”

      • Rich39

        Yea, the WMD were real??? Ha ha
        Your worst mistake? Reading the Washington Times. It’s as bad as Fake News.

        • WTS/JAY

          Reports by the US Senate’s committee on banking, housing and urban affairs — which oversees American exports policy — reveal that the US, under the successive administrations of Ronald Reagan and George Bush Snr, sold materials including anthrax, VX nerve gas, West Nile fever germs and botulism to Iraq right up until March 1992, as well as germs similar to tuberculosis and pneumonia.

          Other bacteria sold included brucella melitensis, which damages major organs, and clostridium perfringens, which causes gas gangrene.

          Classified US Defence Department documents also seen by the Sunday Herald show that Britain sold Iraq the drug pralidoxine, an antidote to nerve gas, in March 1992, after the end of the Gulf war. Pralidoxine can be reverse engineered to create nerve gas.

          The Senate committee’s reports on ‘US Chemical and Biological Warfare-Related Dual-Use Exports to Iraq’, undertaken in 1992 in the wake of the Gulf war, give the date and destination of all US exports.

          The reports show, for example, that on May 2, 1986, two batches of bacillus anthracis — the micro-organism that causes anthrax — were shipped to the Iraqi Ministry of Higher Education, along with two batches of the bacterium clostridium botulinum, the agent that causes deadly botulism poisoning. One batch each of salmonella and E coli were shipped to the Iraqi State Company for Drug Industries on August 31, 1987.

          Other shipments went from the US to the Iraq Atomic Energy Commission on July 11, 1988;

          the Department of Biology at the University of Basrah in November 1989;

          the Department of Microbiology at Baghdad University in June 1985;

          the Ministry of Health in April 1985 and Officers’ City, a military complex in Baghdad, in March and April 1986.

          The shipments to Iraq went on even after Saddam Hussein ordered the gassing of the Kurdish town of Halabja, in which at least 5000 men, women and children died.

          http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ddf_1195273173

          • 5live5

            I read your Live Leak column but I failed to see where they mentioned Reagan and Bush sold those materials to them. did I miss something?? I did read where Israel said WITHOUT pointing the finger at the US…… Seems I DO remember bush Senior attacking Iraqi forces invading Kuwait.

          • WTS/JAY
          • 5live5

            I still have trouble believing the voracity of that newspaper report. number one, why would the government let a foreign newspaper have access to damning evidence like that? number two I doubt very strongly that the US would declassify that type of information at this time or before.

          • WTS/JAY

            Here is the official government report/document by the US Senate’s committee on banking, housing and urban affairs — which oversees American exports policy.

            http://www.scribd.com/doc/132943848/United-States-dual-use-exports-to-Iraq-and-their-impact-on-the-health-of-the-persian-gulf-war-veterans

            Unfortunately, there is an ad you’ll have to contend with that obscures part of the document. The only way you can completely remove it, is by signing up.

          • 5live5

            Yeah, thanks but no thanks!!!

          • 5live5

            Yeah, thanks but no thanks!!!

          • WTS/JAY

            At least you know that it exists.

          • 5live5

            no as I’m not going to open it if I have to sign up for it! too many “traps” out there. a friend of mine opened one of those sites and ended up having to have a real nasty virus removed from his computer. I don’t plan to have that happen. I’m kind of picky.

        • Muffin Man Mashinksy

          Smith is right on for the most part,but one has to be aware of a certain dangerous cynicism, for one has to flip the coin as well & realize not every crucial action by govt. is a criminal activity or true conspiracy or thusly motivated…for as regards to these WMD, the Israelis , french intell, & English as well as our CIA all said he had them, & if you are prez & took oath to defend a nation, what would you do? There is now credible evidence that Saddam had most of them moved to Syria when he saw we were serious in going after him, see link below that shows some were left behind…The mistake was not necessarily going into Iraq, but staying there & trying to build a nation, same in Afghanistan!

          http://nypost.com/2010/10/25/us-did-find-iraq-wmd/

        • Nadzieja Batki

          You lack reading comprehension.

        • vicki

          argument to ridicule. Should you happen to bother to do a google search you will find quite a few sources other than the Washington Times.

      • Brandon Smith

        If they were real why did Bush and Cheney admit they were not real?

        • Jana

          Brandon Smith,
          I have wondered the same thing. My brother in law was there and saw the humongous warehouse that stored just some of the WMD’s that were found. Not only that his unit was gassed twice. Thankfully gas goes the way the wind goes and they were down wind of the stuff and it was used by inexperienced people. However, WMD’s were found and witnessed by some that were actually boots on the ground and it was a source of anger and betrayal that Bush said none were found.
          He was sworn to secrecy as to not go to the press or news media.

        • 5live5

          I don’t recall them actually saying that they were not real, I do remember saying that they were lied to. I also remember all the dems saying they were against the war before they voted FOR the war!!

        • vicki

          Why? Because politicians lie. That is what they do.

    • Brandon Smith

      In the end, there is no “left” or “right”, there are only truths, and lies. The elites occupy leadership positions in both the GOP and the Democrats, and there are many lies on either side. Denying the lies of the Dems will not save you if you buy into the lies of the GOP.

      There is absolutely NO evidence that there were WMD’s in Iraq, or that these imaginary weapons were moved out of the country. The only weapons they did have were the chemical weapons Bush Sr. SOLD to Iraq in the 80’s. Of course, Bush Jr. warned of “mushroom clouds” over the U.S. if we didn’t invade the region. So, where are these nuclear weapons? If you can produce some hard evidence of WMD’s, I would love to see it. If you can’t, then you might want to question why you are holding onto the lie so tightly?

      • WTS/JAY

        Brandon: There is absolutely NO evidence that there were WMD’s in Iraq, or that these imaginary weapons were moved out of the country. The only weapons they did have were the chemical weapons Bush Sr. SOLD to Iraq in the 80’s. Of course, Bush Jr. warned of “mushroom clouds” over the U.S. if we didn’t invade the region. So, where are these nuclear weapons?

        An important distinction, Mr. Smith. Saddam did indeed purchase chemical weapons, or at least the material to produce them, and that, courtesy of the U.S. and it’s allies. Off course, to suggest that Saddam possessed nuclear-weapons, as the Bush administration did, is/was absurd. Thanks for the clarification!

      • Muffin Man Mashinksy

        I thought chemical weapons were WMDs….am I wrong? As I said in previous post, I’m solidly with you B. Smith, but going into Iraq was not the thing that upset me, for Saddam was real bad guy (his sons were worse) & he broke so many UN resolutions, hey if we don’t go in & see what is going on & he did something to USA or our men & women in Middle East, everyone would be screaming Bush was derelict in his duty…it was staying there all those years & trying to build a free & open nation amongst 3 sectors who have hated each other for hundreds of years that was the worst transgression!

        • Brandon Smith

          Yes, except that we sold those chemical weapons to Saddam. Invading Iraq over weapons WE sold them is hardly honorable. Also, Bush suggested they had nukes, which have been clearly proven by every measure to have not existed.

          Saddam was indeed a bad guy, but the elites running our country for the past several decades are much worse. UN resolutions? The UN is run by the same globalists that are destroying this nation. My rule is, anything they support, I stand against, including the Iraqi invasion. They couldn’t care less about the safety or freedom of the Iraqi people. They only care about power.

          • Muffin Man Mashinksy

            YES! The UN sux & I supported Ron Paul’s efforts to get us out of it, but just like I said about branding ALL of govt. actions lawless, same paradigm with UN…not all they do is corrupt & dark! I do believe Bush was right to go in & see what we could see….but, staying there? HUGE MISTAKE!!

          • 5live5

            Much worse? Fine distinction. I don’t see our leaders raping women daily just because they want a woman at the time. I don’t see them cutting out the tongue of a man just because he speaks out against the government. Saddam did this and worse. worse yet he reveled in it! The worst thing our government did was try to build a democracy in an area of muslims that hated the process, thus killing a lot of our men and women needlessly! We need to get the hell out of the UN as you are judged by the company you keep. Under Kofie Annan the un troops raped and killed women and children in Africa, without criminal proceedings being brought against them. That is the legacy of the UN and I despise them for that!

          • Mikebark

            It is much easier to control an organization from within than without. Staying in the UN gives us a vote and a veto.

          • 5live5

            That also makes it easier to become just like them. The US needs no association with a group like that. We pay 80% of their budget, house their headquarters here and still the members of the UN that hate us get around sanctions that would be justified. where is the control in that?

          • Jana

            We don’t have that much power or veto power, and we sure seem to pay a lot of the bills.

          • WTS/JAY

            5live5: Saddam did this and worse. worse yet he reveled in it!

            Where is the evidence for this, 5live5?

          • 5live5

            how about women that testified here in the US after escaping from Iraq? there were also men that also testified. One man even testified how Saddam took his wife because he desired her! Saddam was an animal and that is an insult to animals!

          • WTS/JAY

            Again, where is the evidence for this, mainstream media?

          • 5live5

            This was before the start of the war, DO your OWN research if you aren’t pro Saddam!

          • WTS/JAY

            Don’t you find it a bit coincidental that all the stories of Saddam’s atrocities began to surface just prior to the Iraq invasion, 5live5? But where were the stories of Saddam’s atrocities prior to, during, or after the 8 year war he waged against Iran? He was America’s darling then. America supplied him with whatever he needed to succeed in his overthrow of the Shaw of Iran, only to be replaced with the psychotic Khomeini.

            Perhaps, all that is said about Saddam is true, and it probably is, but he was no more evil than our own administration. That’s for sure!

          • 5live5

            What? are you related to the dude?? Sure sounds like it. your posts are all true and anybody else’s are just attempts to besmirch his name??? Get real, man open your blind eyes!

          • 5live5

            go to http://www.int-review.org/terr33a.html-cached look up the piece titled Fear-Saddam’s Chosen Method of Staying in Power. Just as good as your article!! And you don’t have to sign up to see it!

          • Muffin Man Mashinksy

            Saddam murdered 80% of his generals over the decades…his sons would kidnap a nice looking woman out on the streets of Baghdad with her boyfriend, then take back to a dungeon, rape the woman while cutting the guy’s balls off….Saddam was paying $25,000 to families of Palestinian suicide bombers!!

          • 5live5

            Look up the site I posted. He also raped women! he also ordered torture of men and women!

          • Jana

            Jay, In Iraq at Lake Victoria they had to drain the lake as it was stinking so bad. When they drained it they found the bodies of around 1400 young girls between the ages of 11 and 14 that Saddam’s sons had had their way with and disposed of. They were not a nice people.

            I sat in with 3 of the men sitting around talking about the experiences of listening to the people of Iraq telling their stories. Some were pretty bad and pretty sad. They said that women under Saddam were not allowed to work even when the husband was disabled and the families were starving.
            They also stated that if Saddam or one of his son’s saw a woman walking down the street going to the market and he wanted her he would have his men go into her house and take her and her husband or father could do nothing about it. Most of the time they would never see her again either.

          • Jana

            In Iraq there is a Lake called Lake Victoria that was really smelling bad. So bad that they had to drain it. When they drained it they found around 1400 bodies of girls between 11 and 14 that Saddam’s son’s had their way with and disposed of. I agree with 5live5 below.
            Saddam also gassed his own people, so yes we knew he had WMD’s and we also knew he had the capabilities of making others and the intel was that he had. Another point is, that there were training camps over in Iraq where terrorists were trained. This is where the Iraqi soldiers were trained by the US soldiers, also witnessed by my brother in law and a few others I have talked to personally.

      • Mikebark

        Read two books, Saddam’s Bombmaker by Khidhir Hamza and Jeff Stein and Saddam’s Secrets by General Georges Sada.

      • Bob666

        Brandon,
        Very well stated.

      • Bob666

        Brandon,
        Very well stated.

      • vicki
    • Nadzieja Batki

      But you are not defining what is “liberal leaning”, what is a “good person”, what is a “patriot”. What is the standard you are using for your definitions because you will be tripped up by the Dems/Progs/Leftists because they will use your own definitions against you.

    • TheOriginalDaveH

      Apparently, Mike, you are not aware of the numerous documented False Flags that have occurred throughout history. Those who exposed them in their time were undoubtedly referred to as “conspiracy theorists” by the ignorant masses.
      The phrase “conspiracy theorists” is just a manipulative phrase used by people who are afraid they might learn something upsetting to their cushy little worlds of ignorance.
      Read this, Mike, to get an awakening of just how Propagandized we all have been:
      http://www.amazon.com/Lincoln-Unmasked-Youre-Supposed-Dishonest/dp/0307338428/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1384300695&sr=8-1&keywords=lincoln+unmasked

      • Mikebark

        In addition to some of the points in the book you suggest, I didn’t read enough to see if the book covers this, but Lincoln created the nation of Liberia in western Africa, and had a fleet of ships ready to transport the slaves back to Africa to occupy the new country.

  • 4thHorseman of the Confederacy

    This is the best article on subject yet. Standing ovation

  • KG

    Brandon, why not ask the question “…in America, who is the Government?”

    The answer to that question may enlighten you as to the true aspects of Americas source of political power. Since you are a ‘Liberty Movement” kind of guy you should recognize where that ‘liberty’ comes from. However, like most pseudo Anarchist, you wish to relieve some of your guilt from traitorous opinions and outright sedition.

    Libertarians like yourself and Bob wish for unbridled freedom for yourselves because you only recognize yourselves as ‘worthy’, while ‘average’ Americans (everybody else) doesn’t deserve the same ‘liberty’ as yourselves. Because they are ‘brainwashed’ “low information” “poor” “minority” “Union” “Liberal” voters.

    You are no ‘patriot’ – more like a traitor to benefit your self.

    • 4thHorseman of the Confederacy

      you sir, are an idiot. Free thinkers are a threat to your establishment. Threatened by the epiphany that our govt is sinister. Who is govt? Govt is the big money that gang rapes our Constitution, erodes our basic rights and fills the airwaves with propaganda and senseless rhetoric. Govt is the holder of the purse strings. Those entities that fear the “common man” will some day wise up and see through the smoke and mirrors. Its all about the money, power and most of all control. We are told what to manufacture, what to consume, what to wear and the list goes on. The same people who have our elected people on the Hill also own the media. When the common man finally sees through the nonsense, then the govt trembles. Like you are now

      • Rich39

        If you VOTE, then you are the government. 90% of the people don’t understand how our government operates.

        • WTS/JAY

          You must be one of the 90%…?

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            No must about it.
            The Elites present the candidates who typically tell the voters what they think they want to hear. Then the voters, who think they know what the candidate stands for, put that candidate in a position where he can make other people’s personal decisions, take their property, and spend their money.
            In essence a minority of the people elect those candidates who provide services to the advocates of those services at the expense of the non-advocates of those services, thus buying the votes from the advocates.
            How nice for the Leaders and their Crony Capitalists.

    • http://batman-news.com samurai

      Yes, we do know where our liberties come from. It says so in the Declaration of Independence as, Eendowed by their Creator”., that’s how we know. Who are you calling traitor, comrade? Everything you have posted is just argument to ridicule. Here is an article about what your ilk want in this country.

      http://www.godfatherpolitics.com/13201/socialists-pushing-child-euthanasia/

      Just like your ilk to want to kill children, not just the unborn. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

      You need both love of country and faith in GOD to be a patriot. This leaves you out.

      “Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ has made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.”

      Galatians 5:5

    • Ried

      More blah blah blah. I have never read about “unbridled” freedom until I saw your post. Try to get your facts straight. Anarchist? What a hoot! Libertarians are not for anarchy, but are in favor of self control and self determination as opposed to “big brother” telling you every step you can and cannot make. Libertarians are in favor of all laws being equally applied to all people, not special laws and regulations for “special” groups..

      You ask “who is the government?” To paraphrase Lincoln, it is the government “of the special interests, by the special interests, for the special interests”.

      The Libertarians would seek to change this condition. Obviously, it seems you like the current status quo.

      • vicki

        Keep in mind that anarchy means no government. It does NOT mean chaos.

        • Vigilant

          If one comes down from the ethereal heights of abstract theory and plants their two feet on the solid ground of reality, one recognizes such a position as foolishness.

          This is the 21st century, an era in which forces are driving us to globalism, not the opposite. Every new building block in this growing monolith takes humanity further away from any chance of recapturing any semblance of small government, and makes the individual more vulnerable to the wiles of the tyrannical few.

          The 19th century saw the rise of the nation state, the 20th century the rise of the global state. To imagine that sudden removal of subsidies from those dependent upon government could ever lead to a non-chaotic anarchy is to foster a Libertarian pipe dream as poorly conceived as a socialist utopia.

          Anarchy without chaos is an impossibility in this modern world.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Vigilant says — “If one comes down from the ethereal heights of abstract theory and plants their two feet on the solid ground of reality, one recognizes such a position as foolishness”.
            One recognizes that sentence as pure manipulation.
            If you really had anything valid to input, Vigilant, that first sentence should have been struck from your comment.

            Vigilant says — “To imagine that sudden removal of subsidies from those dependent upon government could ever lead to a non-chaotic anarchy is to foster a Libertarian pipe dream as poorly conceived as a socialist utopia”.
            Sooner or later, the subsidies will have to be removed. Better to do it now while the Private Sector still has enough prosperity to help out than to wait until we are all impoverished and there is no choice.

            Vigilant says — “is to foster a Libertarian pipe dream as poorly conceived as a socialist utopia”.
            More manipulation. It makes one wonder if Vigilant really has any faith in his own philosophy. Why all the manipulation if he does?

          • Vigilant

            Dave, if memory serves correctly, even you have admitted in the past that the chances for anarchy without chaos are exceedingly slim in this world.

            If ad hominem is all you’ve got, argue with someone else.

            P.S. If you and Vicki are going to argue for the preferability of anarchy, then you will have turned your backs on the Constitution itself.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            No, I haven’t admitted that, Vigilant.
            I don’t need Government to treat my neighbors respectfully. I don’t need Government to keep me from robbing and killing people.
            If a Government with a Monopoly Power of Force is not a threat to our well-being, then how could Voluntary Competing Security Institutions be any more of a threat?
            Personally, I could live with Government being a Monopoly Enforcer to protect people from the Force of others, but only if it was on a more local level, and if it was completely transparent to the citizens.
            For those people who don’t think there are Voluntary Private solutions to our Monopoly Government:
            http://library.mises.org/books/Murray%20N%20Rothbard/For%20a%20New%20Liberty%20The%20Libertarian%20Manifesto.pdf

          • Vigilant

            Vigilant: “Dave, if memory serves correctly, even you have admitted in the past that the chances for anarchy without chaos are exceedingly slim in this world.”

            DaveH: “No, I haven’t admitted that, Vigilant.”

            Therefore, you are prepared to furnish us with examples of anarchy in modern times that has NOT been chaotic. Have at it, Dave.

            “I don’t need Government to treat my neighbors respectfully. I don’t need Government to keep me from robbing and killing people.”

            Ah, but you need government to prevent OTHERS from robbing and killing you, or in trampling your rights underfoot. If you don’t believe that, then take it up with the Founders who knew otherwise. Unless, of course, you would follow Vicki into that “survival of the fittest” life for which she seems to pine.

            Government “on a more local level” is just that, government, NOT anarchy.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            How do you get from “No, I haven’t admitted that, Vigilant” to “Therefore, you are prepared to furnish us….”?
            The only “modern” incidents of so-called “anarchy” that I am aware of were the result of the collapse of too much Government. And having rival gangs vying for control (each one of which could be rightfully defined as “government”) is not an absence of Government.
            It’s also interesting to me how you ideologue types try to confine people to “modern” times, as if just because something occurred in the past it can no longer be valid.
            Modern times or not, people’s behavior remains relatively constant.

            Vigilant says — “Ah, but you need government to prevent OTHERS from robbing and killing you, or in trampling your rights underfoot. If you don’t believe that, then take it up with the Founders who knew otherwise”.

            Who do we get to keep the Monopoly Government from robbing us and killing us?
            Depends on which Founders you are talking about. The Anti-Federalists knew that Government is typically established by those who seek special-privilege over others.

          • Vigilant

            “Modern times or not, people’s behavior remains relatively constant.” Precisely! Perhaps you’re getting my point after all (but I doubt it).

            “Who do we get to keep the Monopoly Government from robbing us and killing us?”

            What makes you leap to some sort of conclusion that I advocate the kind of government that we have now? You should know from all my postings that I abhor the encroachments of the central government into our lives and freedoms. And what, pray tell, does that have to do with anarchy?

            Clear up some of that fuzzy thinking and understand that I’m not attempting to justify our current tyrannical government, I’m admitting the necessity of government, Constitutional government, limited government a la the government our Founders gave us, and nothing more.

            Your Lew Rockwell style argument denigrates the Constitution itself and would extol the virtues of anarchy. I’m simply saying, and all that I have been saying, is that I disagree with you on the point.

            ” The Anti-Federalists knew that Government is typically established by those who seek special-privilege over others.” Of course they understood that. That’s the reason for the Bill of Rights, and for their efforts to severely restrict the powers of the central government.

            What they did NOT advocate was anarchy. You’d best come to terms with that.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Sorry, Vigilant, but I just can’t get past your Argumentum ad Hominem. I am going to assume that reading the rest of your comment would be a waste of my time, because anybody who needs to use so much manipulation must not have much of value to say.

          • Vigilant

            No need to apologize, since it’s insincere anyways.

            One of the less interesting things about you is your predictability. When cornered with truth you inevitably put your fingers in your ears and hum. A cowardly, progressive-like approach we’ve seen many times before.

            Then there’s the outright lie. YOU used the ad hominem FIRST. You know as well as I that I can engage in constructive argument without resort to such tactics, but when your very first comment to me was an overt insult, you know you can depend on me to return the fire with a vengeance.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            It wasn’t meant to be sincere, Vigilant.
            I consider you to be a rabid ideologue whose opinions are of little interest to me.

          • Vigilant

            And that’s why you will remain a bigot for your whole life. Sucks to be you.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            You’re pathetic, Vigilant. You must have been the school yard bully in grammar school.

          • Karolyn

            Reading this ridiculous back-and-forth between you two is a hoot. Dave, you might try looking into your own “magic mirror.”.

            No matter how much you have attacked and denigrated me, Dave, I have always admired and respected your dedication and not responded in kind. However, you may not be as perfect as you seem to think you are.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            I don’t think I’m perfect, Karolyn. You’re the one who condescends others on a regular basis. I know when I’m insulting somebody. You apparently are oblivious to your insults. That’s why I accuse you of having a Magic Mirror which tells you how “fair” you are. But your mirror is lying.

          • WTS/JAY

            Condescending…yes, she most certainly is!

          • WTS/JAY

            Actually, it wasn’t ridiculous in the least. I very much enjoyed it, in fact. I even gleaned some interesting nuggets of information from both of the intellectual-Spartans, for that matter. Yet, you think it was all, just ridiculous…why i’m i not surprised?

          • Vigilant

            Methinks you so easily allow yourself to be bullied. Now we get the “pity me” defense from Dave.

            He starts the insulting and now he wishes us to empathize with his poor plight. Can’t stand the heat, get off the website, sonny.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            You started the insulting, ignoramus. Anybody who cares can determine that.

          • Vigilant

            Original thread:

            “Vigilant says — “If one comes down from the ethereal heights of abstract theory and plants their two feet on the solid ground of reality, one recognizes such a position as foolishness”.
            One recognizes that sentence as pure manipulation.
            If you really had anything valid to input, Vigilant, that first sentence should have been struck from your comment.”

            THAT, sir, was your very first comment to me on an unsolicited response. I had directed nothing to you previous to that.

            You, sir, made the first insult. Your words are there for everyone to see. Care to lie a little more?

          • Vigilant

            Frankly, my dear, I don’t give a damn what you think of me. My arguments stand on their own for people to check out and/or counter with reasonable and logical rejoinder.

            When you decide you wish to engage in cool and intelligent conversation instead of insulting me right off the bat like you did, then come back and we’ll have a chat.

          • Nadzieja Batki

            Vigilant, humans can exist without any government IF they intuitively do not infringe on each other’s space or belongings. But since this has occurred only once in our human existence in Eden and only for a short while, we need government but as limited as our Constitution allows.

          • vicki

            Vigilant writes:

            If you (DaveH) and Vicki are going to argue for the preferability of anarchy,

            Hmmm. I observed the correct definition of anarchy

            http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anarchy

            and you conclude that I am arguing for it over some other condition? How does that work?

          • Vigilant

            Yes, you used the utopian definition. And there’s a reason it’s called “utopian.”

            But definitions are not at issue here. What’s at issue is the probability that such a utopia could ever exist in this modern world.

            I simply say the person who knows history and human nature, ESPECIALLY the avariciousness and immorality in today’s world, could never seriously consider that anarchy would be by any stretch “utopian” in nature.

            As for my conclusion “that [you are] arguing for it over some other condition,” that’s based on your continued reference to the utopian form of anarchy on this site. You and Dave both.

            Pardon me if I have been wrong in assuming that your “clarification” of a benign form of anarchy has been posted sufficient times for me to believe you are defending it’s possibility.

            If my conclusion is wrong, then please tell me what form of government you prefer.

          • Vigilant

            “Sooner or later, the subsidies will have to be removed.”
            Of that, I have no doubt. Too bad that’s not the crux of the argument, Mr. Manipulator.

            To simplify it, it boils down to one thing and one thing only: the probability that anarchy in today’s world would be chaotic or not. You seem to believe that anarchy is preferable and could come to pass without chaos ensuing.

            Neither the Founders nor I believe that..

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            You don’t know what the Founders believed. They were a disparate group of people just as in any group of people.
            Some argued against a Central Government, others embraced it.
            Mr. Manipulator? You just can’t help yourself, can you Vigilant? What would you do without your Argumentum ad Hominem?
            The only way to find out if Anarchy (Voluntary cooperation among people) would work or not is to try it. But a very big roadblock in the way would be presented by those who profit from Leadership positions and thus would be unlikely to yield peaceably.

          • Vigilant

            “You don’t know what the Founders believed. They were a disparate group of people just as in any group of people. Some argued against a Central Government, others embraced it.”

            Perhaps it escaped you in your superficial scan of history that both Federalists and Anti-Federalists signed the Constitution. Perhaps you also missed the fact that the convention redid the Articles of Confederation because of the toothless central government that existed under them. No one denied that the government needed shoring up, the difference of opinion concerned the extent of th powers to be granted.

            I have read more broadly and deeply than you on our nation’s history. You’ve said you were interested in politics and economics, and that’s fine, but don’t purport to tutor me on the Founders and what they believed in. As recently as a year ago you couldn’t even tell the difference between Federalists and Anti-Federalists, and you chastised me for pointing out the difference to you.

            “Mr. Manipulator? You just can’t help yourself, can you Vigilant? What would you do without your Argumentum ad Hominem?”

            Given the fact that YOU hurled the first ad hominem, in response to a comment I didn’t even address to you, that’s a fine example of your devious method of arguing. Perhaps we should call you “Mr. Alinsky” instead.

            “The only way to find out if Anarchy (Voluntary cooperation among people) would work or not is to try it.”

            Dream on. Anarchy will come, as it always has, as a forcible and not voluntary situation. Perhaps you’d be interested in purchasing the Brooklyn Bridge.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Both Federalists and Anti-Federalists signed the Constitution? Because you say so, Vigilant? I wouldn’t take your word for anything given the amount of personal attack that is in your typical comment. Nobody with good knowledge needs to behave like you do.

            Vigilant says — “Perhaps it escaped you in your superficial scan of history that both Federalists and Anti-Federalists signed the Constitution”.
            Yes, I guess it did. In fact I found this:
            Noted Anti-Federalists:
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Federalism#Noted_Anti-Federalists
            And this:
            List of signers of the U.S. Constitution:
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_signers_of_the_United_States_Constitution

            I couldn’t find a single “Noted Anti-Federalist” on the list of signers of the Constitution. Maybe the signers weren’t “noted” people?

          • Vigilant

            Well David, mark this day on your calendar. You are right and I was wrong. In the heat of argument I misspoke. Thank you for pointing it out to me.

            Allow me to rephrase. The Constitution would never have been signed and ratified had it not been revised via the Bill of Rights to allay the fears of the Anti-Federalists. It was, above all, a document of compromise on many values (including slavery).

            Jefferson, Madison and Monroe all cherished a mixed bag of Federalist and anti-federalist sentiments, and although Jefferson didn’t sign the Constitution (he was in France), he mentored and advised Madison constantly during this period.

            Only one president was ever elected under the banner of the Federalist Party, and that was John Adams. The popularity of the Anti-Federalist viewpoint was evident in the election of the three presidents mentioned above.

            A scant ten years after the ratification of the Constitution, Madison and Jefferson penned the Virginia and Kentucky Resolutions. No one could ever claim that these documents were Federalist by any stretch of the imagination.

          • WTS/JAY

            Vigilant, you said: Then there’s the outright lie. YOU (DaveH) used the ad hominem FIRST.

            But In your address to Vicki, and prior to your skirmish with DaveH, you said: To imagine that sudden removal of subsidies from those dependent upon government could ever lead to a non-chaotic anarchy is to foster a Libertarian pipe dream as poorly conceived as a socialist utopia.

            You know full well that DaveH is Libertarian. Any wonder then, that you roused his anger?

          • Vigilant

            The statement was NOT ad hominem. Unless you think that the members of every political party take it personally when I make a statement derogatory to their belief system.

            No direct, personal insult to a particular person was made in that comment, none whatsoever. DaveH, on the other hand, initiated the PERSONAL insult with his comment.

            Notwithstanding that, the validity of the comment stands. Tell me, Jay, or anyone else, does anyone really believe that anarchy without chaos is a possibility in this modern world?

          • WTS/JAY

            Vigilant: No direct, personal insult to a particular person was made in that comment, none whatsoever.

            Well, Vigilant, your statement could be considered as balancing on a very fine line. Off course, i believe you. Btw, would you settle for a indirect and unintentional insult? :)

          • Vigilant

            WTS/JAY, please let me say first that I didn’t “down arrow” you, in fact I up arrowed you to prove it. I’ve always enjoyed your postings, and although we don’t see 100% eye to eye on everything, we’ve been able to carry on civil conversation between us always.

            I hope you see my posting in reply to Vicki elsewhere here. I tried to explain to her that no ad hominem was intended.

            With DaveH we have a different sort of animal. A year or two ago, in one of our spats, I attempted three times to offer the peace pipe to him, but he ignored the gesture. Three strikes you’re out is the rule, and since he rejected the offerings I have cut him no slack whatsoever.

            When he makes a cogent point of political philosophy, I will up arrow him, and he has done the same for me. But when we lock horns on issues for which he will not budge, regardless of the facts I present him with, the fur flies and the ad hominems as well. He’s a man who will never admit he’s wrong, and to those types of people I grant no quarter on the battlefield.

            Call my comment an “indirect and unintentional insult” if you will. I don’t have a problem with that. But I would beg you to understand that the comment, as phrased, was intended for a group of people and not one in particular.
            Besides, as I told Vicki, if as she appears, is distancing herself from such a viewpoint (that anarchy without chaos is achievable), then no insult whatsoever was aimed at her since logically she is not a member of such a group of people whom I think are foolish for believing it.

          • WTS/JAY

            Vigilant: Notwithstanding that, the validity of the comment stands. Tell me, Jay, or anyone else, does anyone really believe that anarchy without chaos is a possibility in this modern world?

            Personally, i think there is a very high probability that chaos would in fact ensue from anarchy, that being, anarchy; due to absence of authority. However, i also think that there is a very high probability that chaos will ensue under a tyrannical-authority, should it’s tyranny become unbearable.

          • WTS/JAY

            Vigilant: Notwithstanding that, the validity of the comment stands. Tell me, Jay, or anyone else, does anyone really believe that anarchy without chaos is a possibility in this modern world?

            Personally, i think there is a very high probability that chaos would in fact ensue from anarchy, that being, anarchy; due to absence of authority. However, i also think that there is a very high probability that chaos will ensue under a tyrannical-authority, should it’s tyranny become unbearable.

          • Vigilant

            I agree. The normal course in history has been revolution against tyranny, followed by lawlessness and chaos where no strong leadership steps in.

            Anarchy is usually only for a relatively short period. Man has never learned to live with it because it represents, as Hobbes said, man in a state of nature, where life is “nasty, brutish and short.”

            For all the idealistic yearnings for anarchical utopia, it’s practical application would be found wanting.

            I think man NEEDS to be governed. It’s a necessary evil, but the trick is to keep it heavily restricted and at the lowest level of political unit possible.

          • vicki

            Vigilant writes to me:

            Vigilant says — “If one comes down from the ethereal heights of abstract theory and plants their two feet on the solid ground of reality, one recognizes such a position as foolishness”.

            Ad hominem. And as a result your valid points concerning human ability to handle anarchy are regrettably lost in the ensuing ad hominems/arguements to ridcule.

          • Vigilant

            I’m afraid you just trapped yourself in your own logic, Vicki. You either believe or you don’t believe that anarchy without chaos is a possibility.

            Elsewhere you took me to task for “conclud[ing] that [you are] arguing for it over some other condition? How does that work?”

            Therefore, if my conclusion is incorrect and you are not “arguing for it over some other condition,” then there can be no ad hominem because you are NOT the foolish person to whom I alluded. In other words, if the shoe doesn’t fit, then you don’t need to wear it. That’s pure logic.

            Secondly. you may wish to revise your usage of the term “ad hominem.” You are incorrectly using the term.

            From http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ad-hominem.html:

            “An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument. Typically, this fallacy involves two steps. First, an attack against the character of person making the claim, her circumstances, or her actions is made (or the character, circumstances, or actions of the person reporting the claim). Second, this attack is taken to be evidence against the claim or argument the person in question is making (or presenting).”

            You’ll note that I said “one recognizes such a position as foolishness.”. That’s an attack on the position, not the person. It’s equivalent to saying “socialism is a bankrupt theory and its adherents are ignorant of history.”
            Those kinds of statements are made here every day and no one calls them “ad hominem.” I’m afraid the term is taking on the same connotation as the race card, not used accurately but dropped as a means of stifling conversation.

        • Vis Fac

          Anarchy also means self governing. Normal people are in no need of governing for they have ethics and morals. When Government entity evolves ethics, morals, and personal responsibility evaporate.

          Concentrated power has always been the enemy of liberty. – Ronald Reagan

          No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never
          disappear. A government agency is the nearest thing to eternal life we’ll ever see on this earth!

          The worst advertisement for socialism and liberalism are its adherents

          If you want a vision of the socialist future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face – forever

          To sit back hoping that someday, some way, someone will make things right is to go on feeding the wolf, hoping he will eat you last – but eat you he will.

          You don’t have to be a Marine to make a difference the only requirement is being truly patriotic and the willingness to back it up!!!

          Libertas inaestimabilis res est
          Semper-Fi

        • Vis Fac

          Anarchy also means self governing. Normal people are in no need of governing for they have ethics and morals. When Government entity evolves ethics, morals, and personal responsibility evaporate.

          Concentrated power has always been the enemy of liberty. – Ronald Reagan

          No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never
          disappear. A government agency is the nearest thing to eternal life we’ll ever see on this earth!

          The worst advertisement for socialism and liberalism are its adherents

          If you want a vision of the socialist future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face – forever

          To sit back hoping that someday, some way, someone will make things right is to go on feeding the wolf, hoping he will eat you last – but eat you he will.

          You don’t have to be a Marine to make a difference the only requirement is being truly patriotic and the willingness to back it up!!!

          Libertas inaestimabilis res est
          Semper-Fi

      • KG

        There is freedom in the law. Or do you believe that it’s up to you what laws you will follow? That is Anarchism. That is Libertarianism. That is what the Republican party has morphed into.

        No, I am not satisfied with the way America is today. After 30 years of ‘…cut taxes cut taxes cut taxes…’ look at where we are today. Underfunded Government is almost as bad as no government.

        • http://personalliberty.com/ Bob Livingston

          Dear KG,

          You write: “Underfunded Government is almost as bad as no government.” The U.S. took in a record $2.77 trillion in revenue in 2013. That’s up almost 8% above the previous record in 2007. It is certainly not “underfunded.” Since 1960, revenue has increased every year but 6. In which of those years was it unable to meet its “obligations?”

          Best wishes,
          Bob

          • Matforce

            Bob, your assertion above is another example of how the right uses partial truths to make their point, and in your case, I can’t help but believe you are aware of the disingenuousness of your claim.

            When you claim that US revenue is at a record high, your claim is “correct,” HOWEVER, a claim that is “correct” can be used to establish an argument, and construct an impression that isn’t necessarily “true.” Let me explain.

            First, using raw dollars to make a comparison over a long period of time is not an accurate measurement because the dollar buys less and less over time because of INFLATION.

            Second, a large portion of the current population is made up of baby boomers, who are at the top of their earnings potential, in a growing population with a growing economy.

            A more accurate way to conduct a comparative study would be to measure it as a percentage of gross domestic product.

            “For fiscal 2013, the just-completed fiscal year, the Office of Management and Budget predicted that federal revenues would account for 16.7 percent of GDP.

            That’s the highest it’s been since 2008, the year the Great Recession hit — but by historical standards, it’s low.

            Going back to 1952, revenues as a percentage of GDP were higher than today’s level during 55 of 63 years, or 87 percent of the time. Only in eight years was it lower than today’s 16.7 percent. It reached a high of 20.6 percent of GDP in 2000.”
            Partial truths are convenient, but not the whole story.

            http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/oct/07/john-boehner/john-boehner-says-us-will-have-record-revenues-yea/

          • KG

            As Tip O’Neal used to say – “All politics is local.” While the figure you give seems impressive, the truth is it’s at the local, state and city level where the lack of funding is most prevalent. And Americas population has increased from around 180 million to 315 million since 1960 – much more than the 8% increase in tax revenues. Not to mention the numbers of undocumented workers who work 40+ hours a week and pay SS taxes without any hope of claiming their SS when they retire.

            Wasn’t that one of the ‘conservatives’ tactics – starve the beast? If you don’t build it, they won’t come – but they came anyway.

        • Ried

          Our current system of laws is out of whack because there are too many laws. Big government has not made things better. Why is there a 10,000 page tax code and a large IRS to enforce it? Special interests. Why are some people required to follow certain laws and others are exempt? Special interests. Our problem is not an underfunded government, it is a government that is taking care of special interests. Such as crony capitalists, military-industrial complex, education, big insurance, unions, “to-big-to-fail” banking, and welfare recipients.

          Get rid of laws and taxes to take care of these special interests, get a “right sized” government with a “right sized” legal code, and let the citizens have “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness”.

          • KG

            What did Shakespeare say? “Kill all of the lawyers.”
            While it may seem as though the tax code is complicated, there is a reason for it’s complexity. While many people would be inclined to invest in so-called ‘Tax Shelters’, these investments do little to produce any benefit for Americans. The laws are to funnel monies into vehicles that will benefit the citizens as a whole – such as Municipal Bonds to finance building of infrastructure. There is nothing worse for a Nation than Idle capital.

            What special interest group do you belong too?

          • Ried

            What group do you belong to? I am not inclined to answer before you do stranger.

            The tax code seems complicated? Gee, I wonder why.

            Do you understand the KISS principle?

            You worry about underfunded government. Do you suppose if the government was smaller and simpler that it might be less underfunded?

            Every year, our governments pass more and more laws. Do you think we are better off now with all of these laws?

          • KG

            It’s clear from your response that you are not affiliated with any working Americans. At least the Americans who actually work with their hands.

            “Keep it simple, stupid.” So, what simple about a nation of 350 million different opinions? If you believe in G-d, then you must understand that it takes Intelligence, purpose and Design to create anything of value. Since Americas political power emanates from the ‘People’, the People have chosen what’s important to them through years of legislation by their representatives. Why do we have Social Security? Because “the People” want it.

          • Ried

            Gee, look at the (crack) pot calling a kettle black! For all the posts you make, I do not think you work with your hands either. And for someone who tries to seem intelligent, you really do not seem to understand how things work.

            “The People” are being manipulated and dumbed down by the current systems in place. If you do not understand that, you either have a closed mind or are a product of the system. Or both!

          • macgyver1948

            KG… I often joke by saying in ancient Greece and Rome their respective languages had the definition for the word Lawyer to be “To deceive, misrepresent, to confuse, to divert attention from the truth, and on” as they represented their clients. Not really, it is just a joke, but
            it explains why lawyers are paid so much to write the tax codes and contracts in general. Making the codes and contracts lengthy is another ploy just like filibustering, not only to put people to sleep, LOL….

    • Charlie

      KG ,,, Agent provocateur ,,, heathen nit wit ,,, ha ha hahanhahanhan,,, go have another bowl of GMO’s …………… Meanwhile ,,, Praise King Jesus for Salvation and Healing … Acts 2:38 is salvation …

    • Charlie

      KG ,,, Agent provocateur ,,, heathen nit wit ,,, ha ha hahanhahanhan,,, go have another bowl of GMO’s …………… Meanwhile ,,, Praise King Jesus for Salvation and Healing … Acts 2:38 is salvation …

    • TheOriginalDaveH

      What a load of nonsense. But then we have come to expect that from the Commie Operative KGB.

    • Brandon Smith

      Nope. I believe everyone has the inherent right to determine their own destiny without a bureaucratic totalitarian system lording over them like some kind of despotic nanny. Using strawman arguments is a pretty lazy method of debate, KG. Try harder next time. I’m disappointed in your trolling efforts lately…

      • WTS/JAY

        Brandon: Using strawman arguments is a pretty lazy method of debate, KG. Try harder next time. I’m disappointed in your trolling efforts lately…

        Yes, there has been some slippage from our in-house Stalinist. But then again, what is the poor boy to do, when his rolodex of Marxist talking-points is depleted and he notices a blank stare in the mirror…? Ah yes, back to the rolodex!

      • KG

        What ‘strawman’? I’m merely laying out the facts as you have expressed them.

        quote:…to determine their own destiny without a bureaucratic totalitarian system lording over them like some kind of despotic nanny.

        Or, in other words, to do what you want without regard for anyone else rights or safety? I see – the morality of selfishness. Well, fortunately for the rest of America, we have some rules to prevent people like you from destroying what the rest of us have worked hard to achieve.

        • Brandon Smith

          Another strawman argument? Don’t you feel ashamed of yourself and your trolling efforts, KG? Don’t you know that attempting to put your own words in other people’s mouths in order to argue with yourself is the lowest form of disinformation? Don’t you have any new Alinsky tactics to show off for us?

          • KG

            HA HA HA ! Now I know i’m in your head! Living rent-free as long as you keep resenting me!

            LOL! AFK! BRB! LTR!

    • Vis Fac

      You asked me the very same question and I TOLD you that government was not a WHO UNTIL ODUMBO came to power Up until then we has some semblance of a republic.

      Now Liberty and freedom is the ability to be able to tell someone what they don’t want to hear. Do we have that liberty/freedom now? You being a COMMUNIST have no use for Freedom OR liberty

      Because YOU are a ‘brainwashed’ “low information” “poor” “minority” “Union” “Liberal” voter and continue to project your UNION credo of coercion and graft for YOURSELF In these respects YOU ARE A HYPOCRITE and a TRAITOR

      We all know who and what you are and any attempt for you to dissuade opinion would be a colossal waste of time.

      The worst advertisement for socialism and liberalism are its adherents

      If you want a vision of the socialist future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face – forever

      To sit back hoping that someday, some way, someone will make things right is to go on feeding the wolf, hoping he will eat you last – but eat you he will.

      You don’t have to be a Marine to make a difference the only requirement is being truly patriotic and the willingness to back it up!!!

      Libertas inaestimabilis res est
      Semper-Fi

  • dan

    raher than let the nattering nay-bobs of negativism define us, we need to establish that Libertarians are PRO-government…Constitutional -limited -Representative Government
    NOT the lawless corptocracy of greed and subtrefuge currently trying to enslave us all.
    Do not be deceived ; there is a difference between libertines/anarchists and libertarians like Jefferson and Adams and Franklin etal.just as there is a BIG difference between agnostics deist or Christains and socialist/humanist/utopian satanists

  • http://batman-news.com samurai

    Good morning fellow patriots. Keep up the good fight. Give no quarter and take no quarter! I smell libturds and progturds roasting on an open fire. I love the bacony smell of roasting communist pigs. It gets the blood flowing in the morning. Here is an article about Obama bin Laden and a friend of his from school.

    http://www.mrconservative.com/2013/11/26989-high-school-classmate-said-obama-lied-compulsively-had-sex-with-rich-white-gays-in-exchange-for-drugs/

    Here is one about Obama bin Laden and his fake birth certificate.

    http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/11/09/Book-Donald-Trump-birther-theories-consumed-Obama-as-his-re-election-campaign-kicked-off

    FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

    You need both love of country and faith in GOD to be a patriot.

    “Whatever makes men good Christians makes them good citizens.”

    Daniel Webster
    U.S. Senator
    Secretary of State
    “Defender of the Constitution”
    Devout Christian

    • Sarah417

      Samurai, it’s admirable of you to post these links. I found the interview of Mia Maria Pope quite interesting especially where she says she tried to tell a gov agency??what she knew about Obama and they would not listen to her or have anything to do with her admission.

      I discovered by accident that Judicial Watch had Obama being investigated for criminal activity while he was Senator. Why didn’t Judicial Watch come forward with this information? Perhaps people would not have voted for him knowing this.

      Anyway, this is bigger than American can imagine. It’s going to take an all out civil war to end this.

      • Elevenarrows

        Unfortunately, Sarah, the vast majority of voters got caught up in mindlessly rooting for their “team” (party) or voted based on the color of the man’s skin. Obama did not mince words on the campaign trail. He clearly told all of us what his intentions were and many, many fools voted for him anyway. So, I suspect they still would have voted for him and demonized Judicial Watch. How else do you explain his second election?

        • WTS/JAY

          Politicians are highly skilled in the art of telling people what they want to hear. The problem is, people believe them, despite the fact that they never do what they say they will do. To know and understand what a politician is really saying when his gums are flapping, is; whatever he/she says, the opposite is true. So whatever they say, just invert it!

        • Sarah417

          Elevenarrows, having been wafted into high office by gusts of Republican failures, Obama became the first president to win a second term with reduced percentages of both the popular and electoral votes.

          You ask, “How else do you explain his second election?” The disassociation of the GOP and voter fraud.

      • Nadzieja Batki

        The case against O could have dragged on for decades at the cost of millions and he still would have gotten off scot free.

      • Vis Fac

        The CRONY capitalists OWN the government and any negative information is quickly quashed. Now that ODUMBO has been re-elected and CERTAINLY WON’T be impeached information is freely available.

        The worst advertisement for socialism and liberalism are its adherents

        If you want a vision of the socialist future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face – forever

        To sit back hoping that someday, some way, someone will make things right is to go on feeding the wolf, hoping he will eat you last – but eat you he will.

        You don’t have to be a Marine to make a difference the only requirement is being truly patriotic and the willingness to back it up!!!

        Libertas inaestimabilis res est
        Semper-Fi

    • Rich39

      A Patriot is someone who loves their nation. Too bad their not a Nazi Germany around so you can go and live there.

      • WTS/JAY

        And a traitor is someone who hates freedom. No doubt you must be very pleased with the traitor in the oval office?

      • tony newbill

        The problem here is that we are watching these goons just print cash charge it to we the people and go off playing in their world while the rest of us are not working creating and expanding supply , and as supply shrinks destabilization is evolving and once we reach a supply shortage crisis its to late to do anything about it , and thats when you will see nasty things happen !!!!

        New World Order Demands $100 Trillion or Collapse

        A Conspiracy to Hide the Truth: Why the True U.S. Government Debt is $205 Trillion
        http://www.economicpolicyjournal.com/2013/11/a-conspiracy-to-hide-truth-why-true-us.html

      • Jana

        Too bad you don’t know what you are talking about!

        • JeffH

          Exactly!

      • Nadzieja Batki

        A “Patriot” can also be a human predator using semantics to shut up anyone who objects to being used as prey.
        Words we recognize can now be given new meanings by the Dems/Progs/Leftists. The Dems/Progs/Leftists can also use our military men and women to push their odious agendas in the name of Patriotism.
        Think things through before making yourself sound like a fool.

      • Vis Fac

        I suppose to you a patriot is someone blindly following the butcher to the slaughterhouse. My family and I having escaped from the gestapo assassination squads in Nazi Germany I can categorically tell you that you are FOS . Imbeciles like you are ALWAYS referencing the Nazi Party whole knowing NOTHING about them.

        The worst advertisement for socialism and liberalism are its adherents

        If you want a vision of the socialist future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face – forever

        To sit back hoping that someday, some way, someone will make things right is to go on feeding the wolf, hoping he will eat you last – but eat you he will.

        You don’t have to be a Marine to make a difference the only requirement is being truly patriotic and the willingness to back it up!!!

        Libertas inaestimabilis res est
        Semper-Fi

      • JeffH

        samurai is a patriot you dolt! He loves his country(nation) and states it in every post!

        “FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!
        You need both love of country and faith in GOD to be a patriot.”

        I’m guessing that you haven’t yet figured out that government is not a nation or a country. DUH!

        • Karolyn

          So, you and samurai are saying that atheists cannot be patriots. That makes no sense.

          • JeffH

            Karolyn, don’t be stupid. You makes no sense and you use the typical liberal progressive method of putting words in my mouth!

            Did you even bother to read Rich39’s comment to get some context to this conversation?

            I stated about samurai that “He loves his country(nation) and states it in every post!”

            So my having said that, what part of “He loves his country” do you not understand? I quoted samurai verbatim and made no mention of athiests not being patriots at all!

          • Karolyn

            Sorry, I guess my response should have just been to samurai. This is an observation of someone just reading words that were written – not the words of a ‘typical liberal progressive.”

          • WTS/JAY

            Dumbbell!

      • http://batman-news.com samurai

        Argument to ridicule by someone not good enough to walk a mile in my shoes. FI’ve done more for this country than you can possiby fathom. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고나라를위해서!
        You need both love of country and faith in GOD to be a patriot.

  • 4lifeandfreedom

    Brandon Smith is precise and correct in his statements. Do believe that he could teach the old/new journalists a thing or two about doing their homework.

    • http://www.thefreedomtrainusa.com/ FreedomTrainUSA

      Most the So Called Journalists have not GOT A CLUE…..as what a real journalist is supposed to do….Most of them in the Lame Stream Mafia Media today…..are just a Part of the D****RAT Propaganda Machine….Spittling out the Marxist Socialist Communist line of Bulls**t….

      • Vis Fac

        Journalism is DEAD It died when Walter Cronkite “the most respected name in journalism” ADMITTED to falsely reporting and skewing field reports to sway popular opinion against the Vietnam war.

        Journalists were “supposed” to keep government in check that was true until they were bought by the crony capitalists. Now the only negative reporting and keeping government “in check” is when conservatives are in office.

        The worst advertisement for socialism and liberalism are its adherents

        If you want a vision of the socialist future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face – forever

        To sit back hoping that someday, some way, someone will make things right is to go on feeding the wolf, hoping he will eat you last – but eat you he will.

        You don’t have to be a Marine to make a difference the only requirement is being truly patriotic and the willingness to back it up!!!

        Libertas inaestimabilis res est
        Semper-Fi

        • http://www.thefreedomtrainusa.com/ FreedomTrainUSA

          Right on….You Nailed it….The 1960’s and the Vietnam War….Changed Real Journalism into Fake Journalism….so as to deceive the Public…..I remember what a Brother In Law…who was in the Navy during this time stated….He was on 3 Cruises of the Coast of Vietnam…on an Air Craft Carrier…..He stated that the News accounts…stated that all the Carrier Decks were filled with planes…so as to give the appearance that we were not losing Planes…..He stated that it was true that the Decks were full……BUT THAT NONE OF THOSE WERE THE SAME PLANES THAT WERE THERE 3 MONTH AGO……Meaning that the Lame Stream Mafia Media was passing along the Line of Propaganda that LBJ…..LAME BRAIN JOHNSON….and the government wanted told…..At the time I refered to the Vietnam War that Killed…60,000 and Destroyed the Lives of hundreds of thousands…..as LBJ’s WAR TO KEEP THE ECONOMY GOING…..

        • Muffin Man Mashinksy

          Journalism is alive & well here on Personal Liberty Digest…too bad not enough denizens of the deep doo doo read it!

  • Ronald L Yarger

    Bottom line is, anybody with a brain and chooses to use it is the enemy. For instance, if you turn over to a liberal broadcast, such as MSNBC, and listen to a particular story. Then you turn over to conservative broadcast, such as Fox, and listen to the same story. These two stories are mostly very different. Sometimes one or the other are right on the money. But most the time it somewhere in between. Then you try to investigate to find the truths. And if you do find the truths and you refuse to accept the government’s response to the story, you are the enemy.

    • Vis Fac

      “FROM WITHIN… An enemy at the gates is less formidable for he is known and he carries his banners openly, but the traitor moves among those within the gate freely. His sly whispers rustling through all the galleries, heard in every hall of government itself. For the traitor appears, not as a traitor, he speaks in the accents familiar to his victims and he wears their face and their garments. He appeals to the BASENESS that lies in the heart of all men. He rots the soul of a Nation. He works secretly and unknown in the night, to undermine the pillars of the city. He INFECTS THE BODY POLITIC, so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to be feared.” – Cicero 42 B.C.

      “Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past”. George Orwell We are seeing this more and more especially today . This is one of the reasons ODUMBO has not been Impeached

      “Concentrated power has always been the enemy of liberty”.
      – Ronald Reagan

      “Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear”. George Orwell We certainly do not have any freedom today because all anti government speech is looked upon as treasonous

      The worst advertisement for socialism and liberalism are its adherents

      If you want a vision of the socialist future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face – forever

      To sit back hoping that someday, some way, someone will make things right is to go on feeding the wolf, hoping he will eat you last – but eat you he will.

      You don’t have to be a Marine to make a difference the only requirement is being truly patriotic and the willingness to back it up!!!

      Libertas inaestimabilis res est
      Semper-Fi

  • AnnCA

    My only problem with “conspiracy theories” is that they usually try to find a evidence that the government purposely wants to hurt economy and people. But, blaming the government in conspiracy is the same as blaming overgrows of parasitic bacteria in attempts to purposely trying to kill a body this bacteria occupies.
    The same way as a body needs certain amounts of microorganisms to exist, a nation cannot survive without the government. The same way as microorganisms, when they are getting out of control, reproduce to the levels deadly for a body, overproduction of a government is deadly for a nation. United States of America are currently in the situation when there is way too much government to be beneficial for the nation even if 100% of government employees personally want to help the nation to prosper.

    • TheOriginalDaveH

      Ann says — “a nation cannot survive without the government”.
      At least that is what he Leaders have always wanted you to believe.
      http://archive.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/rothbard81.html

      But if monopolies are bad for the Marketplace, why are they good for Protecting us? There are better ways, but first people must break free from the Propagandized Fear of Thinking about Alternatives:
      http://library.mises.org/books/Murray%20N%20Rothbard/For%20a%20New%20Liberty%20The%20Libertarian%20Manifesto.pdf

    • TheOriginalDaveH

      Ann says — “a nation cannot survive without the government”.
      At least that is what he Leaders have always wanted you to believe.
      http://archive.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/rothbard81.html

      But if monopolies are bad for the Marketplace, why are they good for Protecting us? There are better ways, but first people must break free from the Propagandized Fear of Thinking about Alternatives:
      http://library.mises.org/books/Murray%20N%20Rothbard/For%20a%20New%20Liberty%20The%20Libertarian%20Manifesto.pdf

    • Jana

      The way you started out I thought you were for big government. I am glad I read your post all the way through. I agree with the second half of your post. The only problem is when a governing body becomes a parasitic body and no one tries to do anything about it and they keep saying oh it will be all right, it will get better because Obama is a good man, it won’t really get better.

      Obama really isn’t a good man, and he doesn’t intend for it to get better, only worse. He is like a parasite that hasn’t been identified yet. People are beginning to be aware that there is something wrong but exactly what is wrong too many just don’t know and even more just don’t care. (Those are the ones who have their hands out and they don’t care as long as they get their welfare check every month or their union bosses tell them its ok.)

      • TheOriginalDaveH

        The thing is, Jana, that Governments have always been parasitic at heart. As Clifford Thies says:
        “To say governments were formed to protect the rights of men would be historically incorrect. Almost all governments were formed by ruthless men exerting their will over others through the use of force. Some governments, over time, evolved toward the rule of law, perhaps only because their rulers saw that this would sanction their own continued enjoyment of the wealth that they possessed. In some instances, this evolution involved one or more “revolutions” in which those who were governed were able to better establish the rule of law”.
        If you take the time to read this interesting and enlightening History of the Colonies, you will see what Clifford means:
        http://mises.org/books/conceived1.pdf
        http://mises.org/books/conceived2.pdf
        http://mises.org/books/conceived3.pdf
        http://mises.org/books/conceived4.pdf

        • Jana

          I will have to look them up before I can say I agree with you on this. Sometimes I agree with you and sometimes I don’t Dave but hey, I have the same thing with my husband and I love love love him. LOL.

          Right now I am studying Alinsky’s Rules for Radicals and The Naked Communist. Wow wow wow. Now that my daughters don’t take up all of my time and I have some free time I am going to use it to study.

          • Vigilant

            Jana, while you’re at it, please read the following concerning the absolute necessity of government:

            Government as a necessary evil is a concept that has been around for thousands of years.

            Not one of the Founders doubted for a minute the words of Hobbes, Leviathan, Chapter 12:

            “”During the time men live without a common power to keep them all in awe, they are in that conditions called war; and such a war, as if of every man, against every man.

            “To this war of every man against every man, this also in consequent; that nothing can be unjust. The notions of right and wrong, justice and injustice have there no place. Where there is no common power, there is no law, where no law, no injustice. Force, and fraud, are in war the cardinal virtues.

            “No arts; no letters; no society; and which is worst of all, continual fear, and danger of violent death: and the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish and short.”

          • Jana

            I don’t really think any sane person would think there should be no government, but it must always be by the people.

          • Vigilant

            Precisely. That’s the point I’ve been trying to make, and thank you for recognizing it.

          • WTS/JAY

            I think the important distinction to make is between good…?government and a corrupt-government. But since we have always lived under a corrupt-government, it’s hard to imagine what a good-government would look like.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            The nature of the beast is self-aggrandizement. Most of what Government does is either unnecessary or poorly performed. Since the beginning of our country Government has been populated by a close knit group of privilege-seeking politically connected men who mostly are more interested in their own well-being than that of the citizens.
            Read this book to learn how the bankers (one privileged group) have used Government to their own advantage since the beginning of the United States:
            http://mises.org/Books/historyofmoney.pdf

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            “any sane person”?
            Don’t fall into Vigilant’s style, Jana. Sanity has nothing at all to do with pondering ideas with an open-mind.
            Murray Rothbard was one of the most intelligent highly educated authors of our time, and he certainly didn’t think Anarchy (absence of Leadership) was a bad idea:
            http://archive.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/rothbard81.html

            Here is a book review on “Libertarian Anarchy” by David Gordon:
            http://mises.org/daily/6256/Libertarian-Anarchy

          • Vigilant

            The statist is to Obama as DaveH is to Murray Rothbard.

            It’s called the personality cult, on which one is slavishly attached to a person to the point that no matter what they say, their words are taken as gospel truth.

            Rothbard, like everyone, is not invariably correct on all matters, but don’t ever attempt to utter such heresy to DaveH, the “true believer” par excellence..

            The Mises website (established by Constitution-hater Lew Rockwell) has some very excellent points regarding economics, but fails miserably in some other areas.

            DaveH also naively accepts the pearls of ignorance of Thomas DiLorenzo, a Mises neoconfederate author who has no credentials in history but feels qualified to pontificate about the pure evil, Satan incarnate Abraham Lincoln, one of our greatest presidents.

            That’s the nature of the beast you are dealing with when talking to the “never wrong” DaveH.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Maybe, Vigilant, if you did more reading and thinking instead of spending all your time pondering how best to personally attack people, you wouldn’t need to resort so much to Argumentum ad Hominem.

          • Vigilant

            “Argumentum ad Hominem.” “Manipulator.” “You argue like a liberal.”

            Dave, it’s time you went down to the Insult Hardware Store to replenish your toolbox. You have the unimaginative penchant for using the same old, same old insults over and over again. Better get some new tools.

            It’s amusing to watch you make a fool of yourself. Look at yourself in the mirror for once in your life. That sentence of yours is the epitome of the ad hominem insult, but it’s OK for you to do it. Like the childish, argument victory “score keeping” you did a few years ago, you just as childishly recognize the ad hominem in others but refuse to see it yourself when you employ it.

            You can’t face the fact that you are just as guilty of the ad hominem as I. That I happen to be much more original and creative about it really bugs you.

            Hell, I can openly admit I do it. Man up, grow a pair and admit that you do it as well.

          • Vis Fac

            Rather awakening aren’t they? I read the Naked communist in High School and was shocked to see that many of the 45 goals had been obtained. I have seen the gradual degeneration of the nation under the “progressive” movement which has now become The
            Gullible Obnoxious Pejorative Philandering Prevaricating
            Progressive Party (GOPPPPP) These new Progressives have become more obnoxious in demanding their say so. So much I’d like to slap their silly faces and maybe slap some sense into them BEFORE things go south. They don’t see the danger in their socialist one dimensional idiot-ology.

            The worst advertisement for socialism and liberalism are its adherents

            If you want a vision of the socialist future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face – forever

            To sit back hoping that someday, some way, someone will make things right is to go on feeding the wolf, hoping he will eat you last – but eat you he will.

            You don’t have to be a Marine to make a difference the only requirement is being truly patriotic and the willingness to back it up!!!

            Libertas inaestimabilis res est
            Semper-Fi

          • Jana

            Force, It is really an eye opener. My parents have been saying some of these things but after seeing the Agenda I now see what they were talking about. I have bought these and have been having friends over to show this to them and giving them out as they leave so they can do the same, and they have been. We have to teach our friends and our children before its too late.

          • Vis Fac

            Unless we all do out part we are doomed because thanks to the NEA the nation is full of functionally illiterate dependent on government and lame stream media

            The worst advertisement for socialism and liberalism are its adherents

            If you want a vision of the socialist future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face – forever

            To sit back hoping that someday, some way, someone will make things right is to go on feeding the wolf, hoping he will eat you last – but eat you he will.

            You don’t have to be a Marine to make a difference the only requirement is being truly patriotic and the willingness to back it up!!!

            Libertas inaestimabilis res est
            Semper-Fi

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Yay! Kudos to you for taking the time to study.

          • Jana

            Thanks Dave.

      • Vis Fac

        The same 47% who voted for ODUMBO and those who are now becoming more dependent on government handouts.

        No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. A government agency is the nearest thing to eternal life we’ll ever see on this earth!

        The worst advertisement for socialism and liberalism are its adherents

        If you want a vision of the socialist future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face – forever

        To sit back hoping that someday, some way, someone will make things right is to go on feeding the wolf, hoping he will eat you last – but eat you he will.

        You don’t have to be a Marine to make a difference the only requirement is being truly patriotic and the willingness to back it up!!!

        Libertas inaestimabilis res est
        Semper-Fi

        • Jana

          The boot stamping on your face forever thing is correct. I have been a substitute teacher and have seen first hand how many many students have stated that they don’t have to study because they are going to ” Get on welfare like my mama”. It almost made me sick! I quit after 5 years as it got worse and worse with the disrespect of these young people not only not respecting the teachers, but each other or themselves. Neither did we have the backing of the Principal. When there was a problem he ducked out. This was over 10 years ago and I have never been sorry for leaving!

          • Vis Fac

            Respect or lack thereof is formed at home. One can easily imagine what a child’s home life is like by casual observation. You know if there is discipline, love or if they run amok. They license people to drive but not to procreate. I know that statement is callous but some people should NOT be able to be parents. Especially those who put their welfare above their children.

            As an entrepreneur for over 35 years I have developed a keen sense of what people are I could tell the level of education, ethics, and the sincerity of the client and within fifteen minutes know weather I would have a contract or not.

            Those running the liberal one dimensional
            idiot-ologic non-education indoctrination system that passes for education have simply lost whatever minds they once possessed; and their ridiculous,
            mind-numbed zero-tolerance policies are causing kids and parents all manner of hardship and even resulting in criminal records for victimless non-crimes. And the governments of New York and California have long ago divested themselves of
            common sense and restraint.

            The worst advertisement for socialism and liberalism are its adherents

            If you want a vision of the socialist future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face – forever

            To sit back hoping that someday, some way, someone will make things right is to go on feeding the wolf, hoping he will eat you last – but eat you he will.

            You don’t have to be a Marine to make a difference the only requirement is being truly patriotic and the willingness to back it up!!!

            Libertas inaestimabilis res est
            Semper-Fi

          • Jana

            Amen!

            “The mind of the student is considered a major battlefield by Communist strategists.” The Naked Communist

          • Vis Fac

            “I calmly say, ‘Your child belongs to us already. What you are, you will pass on. Your descendents, however, now stand in the new camp. In a short time they will know nothing else but this new community.'” – Adolf Hitler November 06, 1933 The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich

            To sit back hoping that someday, some way, someone will make things right is to go on feeding the wolf, hoping he will eat you last – but eat you he will.

            “The difference between Genius and Stupidity is that genius has its limits” Albert Einstein

            You don’t have to be a Marine to make a difference the only requirement is being truly patriotic and the willingness to back it up!!!

            Libertas inaestimabilis res est
            Semper-Fi

          • Karolyn

            Force – For a change I agree with you on some people not being parent material. Would that anyone wanting to have a child had to go through a program or take a test to get a license to do so.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Oh great, more laws, just what we need.

          • Karolyn

            Just a pipedream, Dave, not that I really think it should happen. It is just so sad that so many unsuitable people choose to be parents. I feel for all those kids.

          • WTS/JAY

            Don’t worry, Karolyn, thankfully, a lot of them get aborted, so there are less of them for you to feel sorry for. Phew!

          • WTS/JAY

            Karolyn…Would that anyone wanting to vote had to go through a program or take a test to determine they have an acceptable level of intelligence.

          • Jana

            AMEN!!!! YES YES YES!!!!

          • Sarah417

            Did it ever occur to you that had you stayed, you might have saved, maybe just one of them from going on the dole.

          • Karolyn

            Sarah – I thought the same thing, as I read Jana’s comment. I’ve seen stories on TV of ghetto kids being saved from the vicious cycle by dedicated schools and teachers. It does happen.

          • WTS/JAY

            Little wonder that Winston Churchill painted socialism as a philosophy of failure, a creed of ignorance, and a gospel of envy whose inherent virtue “is the equal sharing of misery.” Hey Jana?

    • Nadzieja Batki

      “Conspiracy theories do not usually try to find evidence that the government purposely wants to hurt economy and people.” The people who gravitate to government for jobs and power and control of other people for their own security and perks and goodies, by their own actions point out how destructive and stupid they really are. Always think of human predators/wolves who mark out territory for feeding on the sheep. The human predators/wolves get a good feeding at the expense of the sheep.

      • Vis Fac

        Well this “sheep” happens to be well trained and well armed. I’m afraid it will come to having to be well trained and armed to survive. I wish it weren’t so but afraid it will be.

        The worst advertisement for socialism and liberalism are its adherents

        If you want a vision of the socialist future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face – forever

        To sit back hoping that someday, some way, someone will make things right is to go on feeding the wolf, hoping he will eat you last – but eat you he will.

        You don’t have to be a Marine to make a difference the only requirement is being truly patriotic and the willingness to back it up!!!

        Libertas inaestimabilis res est
        Semper-Fi

  • http://batman-news.com Jim B

    The role of any government is to take something simple and complicate it! Governments do not participate in an normal market activities i.e. purchasing and selling goods and services based on the needs or wants of the people or the world. Instead the government works by force, force taxation, force healthcare, forced currency, forced insurance (SS, McCare, McAid), forced regulation, it goes on and on and on. You pay up or go to jail that’s their free market equivalency, that’s tyranny, that’s extortion, and that’s our government. Hating government is easy, their stupid, clumsy, dimwitted, and have absolutely no understanding of the harm and injustice that they perpetuate day in and day out, it’s unending, and it’s exhausting. Anything we can do to make it go away, even a small part, is a relief to all mankind. Allowing our government to get so big and fat and stupid is the largest mistake this country has ever made in its short history. And finally, BHO is not authorized to be a Dictator, though he may believe he is all things Congress/Senate, Judicial, he is not! His path leads him to impeachment, which should have already started given the transgressions he has already perpetrated against the Bill of Rights/Constitution of these United States. BHO is placing this country in danger with each passing day, his domestic and especially his foreign policies have severely weakened this country at home and abroad. He has set this countries prosperous path in reverse in countless ways that will take centuries to undo. God Bless us all!

    • Vis Fac

      The ONLY thing keeping him from being impeached is the color of his skin PERIOD. Nixon and Clinton were impeached for far less.

      Our spineless congress should grow a pair and do what we the people demand. Unfortunately after many phone calls and letters to our representatives go unheeded and at one point they’ll get a rather shocking message. Revolution is born from tyranny. Our economy will soon collapse because there is nothing to sustain the governments out of control spending. It will be everyone for themselves and it won’t be pretty. When all is said and done maybe the government thinks it will come in and sift through the ashes.

      The worst advertisement for socialism and liberalism are its adherents

      If you want a vision of the socialist future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face – forever

      To sit back hoping that someday, some way, someone will make things right is to go on feeding the wolf, hoping he will eat you last – but eat you he will.

      You don’t have to be a Marine to make a difference the only requirement is being truly patriotic and the willingness to back it up!!!

      Libertas inaestimabilis res est
      Semper-Fi

    • Vis Fac

      The ONLY thing keeping him from being impeached is the color of his skin PERIOD. Nixon and Clinton were impeached for far less.

      Our spineless congress should grow a pair and do what we the people demand. Unfortunately after many phone calls and letters to our representatives go unheeded and at one point they’ll get a rather shocking message. Revolution is born from tyranny. Our economy will soon collapse because there is nothing to sustain the governments out of control spending. It will be everyone for themselves and it won’t be pretty. When all is said and done maybe the government thinks it will come in and sift through the ashes.

      The worst advertisement for socialism and liberalism are its adherents

      If you want a vision of the socialist future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face – forever

      To sit back hoping that someday, some way, someone will make things right is to go on feeding the wolf, hoping he will eat you last – but eat you he will.

      You don’t have to be a Marine to make a difference the only requirement is being truly patriotic and the willingness to back it up!!!

      Libertas inaestimabilis res est
      Semper-Fi

  • http://www.thefreedomtrainusa.com/ FreedomTrainUSA

    “Is It Wrong To Be Anti-Government?”
    NO NO NO NO NO !!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • SteveEd

    I was anti government before anti government was cool.

    • Vis Fac

      Does 1990 count?

      The worst advertisement for socialism and liberalism are its adherents

      If you want a vision of the socialist future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face – forever

      To sit back hoping that someday, some way, someone will make things right is to go on feeding the wolf, hoping he will eat you last – but eat you he will.

      You don’t have to be a Marine to make a difference the only requirement is being truly patriotic and the willingness to back it up!!!

      Libertas inaestimabilis res est
      Semper-Fi

  • Motov

    I’m more anti-career politicians, We need term limits! and I am anti-elitists, who voted themselves a retirement package that is a total rip-off of us tax payers, that needs to end!

    • TheOriginalDaveH

      Government will remain bloated and self-centered as long as people let the Elites choose their candidates for them.

      • Vigilant

        Precisely. Term limits mean nothing as long as the candidates are chosen by the elites.

        • Motov

          Many past presidents have warned us to watch out for the elites, They are a very crafty and deceitful bunch.

        • Motov

          Many past presidents have warned us to watch out for the elites, They are a very crafty and deceitful bunch.

      • Motov

        So in other words we must get off our butts and participate in the selection process. We must never allow the status quo to do our choosing, like what happened to Ron Paul. We should have made the biggest stink, even if we are ignored by the press! We should persist until we are heard, The message of personal liberty is getting popular amongst the younger generations, We need to fan those flames so it consumes more and more.
        BIG GOVERNMENT does not work, it never did in the past and it never will, history has proven that. Government has been known to take credit for things they never done, They continually lie, cheat, and steal from us.

    • Nadzieja Batki

      Then your version of politicians can do even more damage just in the shorter amount of time.
      We should we wary of any person that tells you that they “want to, or any variation thereof, make a difference or save something or someone”. The big question of them should be “Who asked you?”.

      • Motov

        My answer is simple, They are supposed to represent all people, (in their district) so your “who asked you” question is invalid. If they do not represent us and take money from deep pockets and make “special rules” for these “elites”. Then we must send them packing.

  • independent thinker

    Here is an article that is partly off topic but still appropriate:

    http://money.msn.com/business-news/article.aspx?feed=AP&date=20131112&id=17095704

  • Nadzieja Batki

    Suspect any humans that they are actually human predators/wolves when they tell another human that they are “anti government’, these are pejoratives that are meant to silence the sheep so that they won’t object that they are being preyed upon. The human predators/wolves object that their feeding territory may be restricted.

  • Robbie

    How is it even possible to be anti-government?

    • WTS/JAY

      How is it even possible not, to be against corrupt-government? Well, it depends on one’s philosophy, i would think. If one believes theft to be okay, than that one would be pro corrupt-government. On the other hand….

      • Robbie

        Do you somehow not pay any taxes? Just asking because to pay any taxes involves you in supporting government and from the sounds of it you consider all government corrupt. Or do I have that wrong?

        • WTS/JAY

          Just because i pay my taxes, Robbie, doesn’t mean i support our corrupt-government. On the other hand, those who don’t pay their taxes, are most likely to support a corrupt government. I understand you support your corrupt government, Robbie?

          Besides, it’s either pay your taxes, or end up in the gulags.

          • Robbie

            The original Patriots (you admire them I imagine) were willing to give their lives over the issue of no taxation (without representation). Are you not a brave Patriot like one of them?

            In any case giving over tax dollars means supporting the system. But again I’ll ask if you consider all government and everyone elected to office to be corrupt? That would sure be a lot of corruption!

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            The Revolutionary War was fought over many things, unfair taxation being just one of them. To learn the real story read these:
            http://mises.org/books/conceived3.pdf
            http://mises.org/books/conceived4.pdf

            Robbie says — “In any case giving over tax dollars means supporting the system”.
            No. It doesn’t mean that. It simply means that a person is smart enough not to pick a fight against overwhelming power.

          • JeffH

            DaveH, FYI, Robbie is also a Canadian which should explain his lack of understanding our corrupt government… but he also refuses to “see the warnings” or do the research…you can lead a horse to water but you can’t…you know.
            http://personalliberty.com/2013/11/11/politicians-are-actors-in-an-absurd-theater/#comment-1119640076

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Or so he says. In one comment he referred to “our Congress”. But Canada doesn’t have a Congress.
            From his persistently nonsensical comments, I can’t help but wonder if he isn’t another of Obama’s Cyber Warriors.

          • JeffH

            I know, who can you trust, but he has made reference to Canada on multiple occassions and that’s just what I’m basing my opinion on…and who knows what his underlying motives are. Smell a rat?

          • WTS/JAY

            Smell a Progressive?

          • JeffH

            LOL!

          • WTS/JAY

            Bottom line, he’s logically inconsistent and a little too soft in the centre for my liking!

          • Robbie

            Whatever has become of that Revolutionary Spirit first expressed by the Founders? No taxation without representation was the really big thing behind the revolution. The original Boston Tea Party had something to do with the tax on tea I do believe. Now the call from the current whiners is NO TAXATION AT ALL.

          • WTS/JAY

            Who said no taxation at all, Robbie?

          • Robbie

            “No taxation without representation” Does that credo not ring any bells?

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Polly want a cracker?

          • Robbie

            Have a little respect for the spirit of the Founders.

          • WTS/JAY

            We do have respect for the spirit of our Founders. We just don’t have any respect for dumbbells like you.

          • WTS/JAY

            I think the dumbbell needs to get his bell rung.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Whatever has become of the spirit of honesty, integrity, and self-reliance? Oh yeah, Liberal Progressives appeared.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Whatever has become of the spirit of honesty, integrity, and self-reliance? Oh yeah, Liberal Progressives appeared.

          • WTS/JAY

            And in spades, i might add!

          • Nadzieja Batki

            It appears that you don’t know the history of this nation. We have taxation with representation with peoples’ wishes being overruled all the time, so what is your point.
            And yes all government and everyone elected to office will lend itself to being corrupt because that is the nature of humans and government.

          • WTS/JAY

            Robbie: The original Patriots (you admire them I imagine) were willing to give their lives over the issue of no taxation (without representation). Are you not a brave Patriot like one of them?In any case giving over tax dollars means supporting the system.

            The original Patriots were against paying tribute to the King of England, professor. Because by doing so, would place them under the protection of the parliament, and they would then be subjected to it’s laws; laws which they believed would undermine their freedom. An important detail to omit if one wishes to defame the original Patriots, don’t you think so, mr. Sneaky?

            Robbie: But again I’ll ask if you consider all government and everyone elected to office to be corrupt? That would sure be a lot of corruption!

            How else could the rampant corruption be sustained were it not for the majority who support it, genius?

          • Robbie

            “No taxation without representation.” Does that saying ring any bells? How about the real (original) Tea Party which was a protest on the TAX on tea. Any bells now? Dingaling.

          • WTS/JAY

            You, are the Dingaling, Dingaling, because that is exactly what i was talking about…

            “No taxation without representation” is a slogan originating during the 1750s and 1760s that summarized a primary grievance of the British colonists in the Thirteen Colonies, which was one of the major causes of the American Revolution. In short, many in those colonies believed that, as they were not directly represented in the distant British Parliament, any laws it passed taxing the colonists (such as the Sugar Act and the Stamp Act) were illegal under the Bill of Rights 1689, and were a denial of their rights as Englishmen…-Wiki

            Get it now, dumbbell?

          • Robbie

            So my reference DID ring a bell. Good for you.

          • WTS/JAY

            Actually, i just provided you with some education, Robbie. No, no need to thank me!

          • WTS/JAY

            Actually, i just provided you with some education, Robbie. No, no need to thank me!

          • http://batman-news.com samurai

            That was only #17 of the 27 complaints against the king. So why don’t you talk about the ones that were more important than that one? If all we fought for was our money, then we only fought because we were selfish and stingy. Sounds like the libturds and progturds. Here is an example of what a group of patriots are trying to do in New Mexico.

            http://www.breakingchristiannews.com/articles/display_art.html?ID=12768

            FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

            You need both love of country and faith in GOD to be a patriot.

            “The fool hath said there is no God within his own heart.”

            Psalms 14:1
            Psalms 53:1

          • macgyver1948

            The original Patriots were not so much against giving taxes to the king of England but more so because there was no one representing Colonist interest. Here today we do have representation and a majority of those who voted for President are still supporting him..

            Causes of the tea party in 1773 – So much of the complaints were not the tax itself but more so who would be benefiting from them. Many of the recipients of the “Taxes” went to the relatives and friends of the British who were involved with the East India Company, not the official government. This is partly why the Founders warned us against the evils of big money to and from corporations and the Government officials.

            From http://www.landofthebrave.info/boston-tea-party.htm below

            “The History of the Boston Tea Party 1773
            Background facts and information: British troops had been stationed in Boston since 1768 and gangs of local workers and sailors often clashed with British soldiers quartered in Boston. Tensions rose leading to the events of an incident that became known as the Boston Massacre. But problems had been building years before this famous incident, due to the the demands made, and taxes, imposed by the Parliament in Great Britain. There were no American Colonists in the English parliament which led to the cry of “No taxation without representation!” in the colonies. The events leading up to, and therefore the causes of, the ‘Boston Tea Party’ were considerable”.

            History of the Boston Tea Party – Summary of the Boston Tea Party 1773
            The summary of the Boston Tea Party is as follows:

            British Policies, Laws and Taxes caused the Boston Tea Party

            Tea was to be marketed in America by special consignees (receivers of shipments) who were to be selected by the East India Company

            Three ships, carrying 342 chests of tea, arrived in Boston Harbor on December 16, 1773 and were docked at Griffin’s Wharf

            The Sons of Liberty were enforcing a ban on goods imported from Britain via Nonimportation Agreements and persuading consignees to resign

            The agents of the East India Company (all relatives of the Governor) refused to resign

            The collector of the customs in Boston refused to give the ships permission to sail away before the tea was landed

            Governor Thomas Hutchinson refused to give the ship captains a pass to sail by the Boston fort until the collector gave his permission

            The only way to get rid of the tea was to destroy it

            A party of Sons of Liberty patriots, dressed as Indians, went on board the ships at Griffin’s, broke open the tea boxes, and threw the tea into the harbor

            History of the Boston Tea Party – The Causes of the Boston Tea Party 1773
            The serious start of the conflict between Britain and America came at the end of the the French and Indian War (Seven years War). The war had left the British with a massive war debt and the British looked for ways of imposing new taxes in the colonies. The British ended their policy of Salutary Neglect in the colonies – which meant they would strictly enforce laws and taxes in Colonial America. The first tax the British imposed was the Sugar Tax in 1764. More laws and taxes followed. The causes and events that led to the Boston Tea Party are detailed on the following chart: SEE http://www.landofthebrave.info/boston-tea-party.htm

          • WTS/JAY

            Prior to the American Revolution, the British Parliament had controlled colonial trade and taxed imports and exports since 1660.

            By the 1760s, the Americans were being deprived of a historic right.

            The English Bill of Rights 1689 had forbidden the imposition of taxes without the consent of Parliament.

            Since the colonists had no representation in (Parliament), the taxes violated the guaranteed Rights of Englishmen. Parliament initially contended that the colonists had virtual representation, but the idea “found little support on either side of the Atlantic”.

            The issue of American representation in the House of Commons (and by implication, the House of Lords) surfaced as early as 1640-41, when members of Parliament asked the Puritan colonists, as recalled by the eponymous Governor of Massachusetts Bay in his Journal of John Winthrop, to send representative delegates to Britain either as lobbyists or as members.

            This offer was initially refused on the grounds that:

            “IF WE [NEW ENGLANDERS] SHOULD PUT OURSELVES UNDER THE PROTECTION OF THE PARLIAMENT, WE MUST BE THEN SUBJECT TO SUCH LAWS AS THEY SHOULD MAKE…[WHICH] MIGHT PROVE VERY PREJUDICIAL TO US.”

            However, Winthrop and the Massachusetts Assembly eventually sent agents to lobby Parliamentarians, although this does not seem to have been as members of the Commons.

            The issue of colonial representation in Parliament continued to emerge from time-to-time, as evidenced in the writings of the Queen Anne-era historian John Oldmixon.

            The phrase had been used for more than a generation in Ireland.By 1765, the term was in use in Boston, and local politician James Otis was most famously associated with the phrase, “taxation without representation is tyranny.”

            In the course of the Revolutionary era (1750-1783), many arguments seeking to resolve the dispute surrounding Parliamentary sovereignty, self-governance, taxation, and the constitutional rights of ‘commoners’ to representation were pursued.

            The Americans rejected the Stamp Act of 1765 brought in by British Prime Minister George Grenville, and violently rejected the remaining tax on tea imports, under the Tea Act passed in May 1773, at the Boston Tea Party on December 16, 1773.

            The Parliament considered this an illegal act because they believed it undermined the authority of the Crown-in-Parliament.

            When the British then used the military to enforce laws that the colonists believed Parliament had passed illegally, the colonists responded by forming militias and seized political control of each colony, ousting the royal governors – with the exception of the American-born Royal Governor of Connecticut, John Trumbull, who was allowed to remain as the new Patriot Governor.

            THE COMPLAINT WAS NEVER OFFICIALLY OVER THE AMOUNT OF TAXATION (THE TAXES WERE QUITE LOW, THOUGH UBIQUITOUS),

            BUT ALWAYS ON THE POLITICAL DECISION-MAKING PROCESS BY WHICH TAXES WERE DECIDED IN LONDON, I.E. WITHOUT REPRESENTATION FOR THE COLONISTS IN BRITISH PARLIAMENT!!!!!!!!! So much for the charge that the original Patriots were against taxation(per say) by our in-house Moron, Robbie!

            Patrick Henry’s resolution in the Virginia legislature implied that Americans possessed all the rights of Englishmen, that the principle of no taxation without representation was an essential part of the British Constitution, and that Virginia alone had the right to tax Virginians… -Wiki

          • macgyver1948

            Jay… I remember this, thanks for the reminder. I was just sharing that Taxation Without Representation was not the only reason. We were the forgotten colonies when it came to benefits and fairness for being part of the British Empire. The Tea Party meant something for the colonists back then and that event should be an inspiration for us today but not with violence so I am with you on that.

            I too support a non-violent revolution and huge Government Reform. But we cannot hurt people who deserve and qualify in the process. For example, Social Security and Medicare must not be cut at all but they need to keep up with the times or it wont matter anyway. In other words I too want less spending but not where people who deserve get
            harmed.

            I would do a march on DC and hope the shielded officials would at least hear about it but there would have to be enough Americans in it to mean more than a small protest to a whatever quickly forgotten. That means people on the Left as well as the Right, again as one huge peaceful but loud team, an American team.

        • TheOriginalDaveH

          More fallacious commentary from Robbie. Paying taxes bears no significance in the determination of whether a person is anti-Government or not.
          It would be like saying somebody is Pro-Robbery because they hand their wallet over to the robber.
          But what else can we expect from the Liberal Progressive Robbie if not fallacious commentary?

          • Robbie

            Hang on there. It was you who said that government dealt in THEFT. That would be via forcing patriots like yourself to pay taxes. So I just wondering if you had found a way to avoid taxation.

          • Robbie

            Hang on there. It was you who said that government dealt in THEFT. That would be via forcing patriots like yourself to pay taxes. So I just wondering if you had found a way to avoid taxation.

        • Nadzieja Batki

          What has paying taxes anything to do with government being corrupt?

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            It doesn’t. Robbie is just grasping at straws like Liberal Progressives do when they have no logical or factual legs to stand on.

          • Robbie

            Please reread my comment slowly.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            We couldn’t read your comments slowly enough to make sense out of them, because they are just nonsense.

          • Robbie

            Keep trying. Eventually you may comprehend.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            You speak nonsense, Robbie, no matter how you delude yourself to the contrary.

          • Robbie

            Eventually. Mind you I’m beginning to wonder about the possibilities.

          • Jana

            Why? Did you type slowly?

        • Jana

          Robbie isn’t a Patriot or brave, he is just a Canadian mouth.

          • JeffH

            Did you mean mouse? chirp, chirp!

          • JeffH

            Did you mean mouse? chirp, chirp!

          • Jana

            Could be mouse – – – – – no he is just all mouth.

          • WTS/JAY

            Or he could be all Moose…?

          • http://www.rt.com Alondra

            NO, he is JUST ignorant liberal.

        • WTS/JAY

          Robbie: to not pay any taxes involves you in supporting government…?

          I think you are the one who needs to read your own comment, s l o w l y.

          • Robbie

            You’d best check my comment again. Slow or fast.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Why? No matter how slowly or quickly we read your comments, they are still nonsense, Robbie.

          • Robbie

            Then check your reading/comprehension skills. They are wanting.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            I could beat you in any mental or physical contest, Robbie, that doesn’t involve lying as a winning factor.

          • WTS/JAY

            If it was a lying contest, DaveH, Robbie would kick the crap out of you! Figuratively speaking, off course.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Yes, he would.
            I’ve noticed a distinct similarity between Robbie’s comments and Flashman (aka rbrooks). Or are all the Liberal Progressives just mentally bereft?

          • WTS/JAY

            All the Liberal Progressives are just mentally bereft! And did i mention they are also expert liars?

          • Robbie

            Really?

        • WTS/JAY

          Oh, you edit your comment. Very good, professor!

          • Robbie

            Made a correction – too many words.

    • Jana

      They said there is no such thing as a stupid question. hmmm now I wonder.

      • Robbie

        Well to be totally anti-government would mean wishing to return to the paleolithic era. That would be just prior to the Neolithic Age. In simpler terms it would mean going back to cave days when there was no government.

        But I will admit one thing: certain concepts and the questions they elicit are not appropriate in some situations (such as this forum).

        • Jana

          Certain people are not appropriate for this forum either!

          So Robbie, you are for any Government at any cost?
          Are you for a Gov’t under someone like Mao Zedong?

          He was busy killing somewhere between 50 million and 70 million of his country’s citizens during his 27-year reign of terror.

          • Robbie

            No and no.

          • Jana

            Then you CAN understand how its possible to be anti government! There you go!

          • WTS/JAY

            Jana, you need to stop picking on the intellectually-challenged, and find yourself a more worthy opponent. :)

          • Jana

            hahaha too funny.

          • http://batman-news.com samurai

            D’oh! :-) :-) :-) Keep up the good fight fellow patriot. Give no quarter and take no quarter! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!
            You need both love of country and faith in GOD to be a patriot.

          • Robbie

            Government at any cost – well of course not and bringing in Mao Zedong? Come on. America has one of the most decent governments in the world. Problems yes but America certainly is better than most of the rest and we will always need government to regulate society.

        • TheOriginalDaveH

          You’re speaking nonsense, Robbie, as usual. The Liberal Progressives seek the enslavement of the producers which is much like the centuries-old Feudal systems.
          Let’s face it — You just want to ride on other unwilling people’s backs, not unlike the Lords, Kings, Plantation Owners or any other advantage-seeking aggressors of the past.

        • TheOriginalDaveH

          You’re speaking nonsense, Robbie, as usual. The Liberal Progressives seek the enslavement of the producers which is much like the centuries-old Feudal systems.
          Let’s face it — You just want to ride on other unwilling people’s backs, not unlike the Lords, Kings, Plantation Owners or any other advantage-seeking aggressors of the past.

  • Robert Zraick

    I am not anti-government, if the government is doing its job and is honorable. I consider that there is a valid function to government. It is to protect the individual rights of every person equally.
    The government we now have is corrupt, bloated and destructive to every valid function of government. I am not anti government, I am anti THIS government.

  • JeffH

    Love My Country, Loathe My Government

    “Love My Country, Loathe My Government – Fifty First Steps To Restoring Our Freedom And Destroying The American Political Class” is a new book by Walter “Bruno” Korschek. The book illuminates and exposes the various myths about government, details how the political class has reduced our freedom while enhancing their power and wealth, proposes a plan to restore our lost freedoms, and establishes a virtual, grassroots process to execute the plan.

    The Three “Cs” of The Political Class – Cronyism, Corruption and “Come On, Man”
    http://loathemygovernment.blogspot.com/2012/04/three-cs-of-political-class-cronyism.html

    • TheOriginalDaveH

      Good find, Jeff.

  • JeffH

    Brandon Smith, I just want to thank you for recognizing and supporting the Oath Keepers and their commitment to “fulfill the Oath we swore”.

    • http://batman-news.com samurai

      Keep up the good fight fellow patriot. Give no quarter or take any quarter! We all know why these libturds and progturds are the way they are, due to their parents not instilling morals in them. Here is an article about morals and parents.

      http://www.clashdaily.com/2013/11/red-alert-moral-decline-kids-today-parents-raise/

      FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

      You need both love of country and faith in GOD to be a patriot.

      “From this day forward, the millions of our school children will daily proclaim in every city and town, every village and rural school house, the dedication of our nation and our people to the Almighty. To anyone who truly loves America, nothing can be more inspiring than to contemplate the rededication of our youth, on meaning…In this way we are reaffirming the transcendence of religious faith in America’s heritage and future; in this way we shall constantly strengthen those spiritual weapons which forever will be our country’s most powerful resource, in peace or in war.”

      Dwight D. Eisenhower
      34th President of the U.S.

  • RonofAmerica

    Is government a place?

    Are the current occupants of political office our “government” because of
    their geographic location?

    All American office holders have sworn an oath to support and defend the
    U.S.Constitution. After they violate that oath we’re “begging the question” when we try to justify our opposition to their unlawful governance.

    A government that doesn’t follow the U.S.Constitution cannot represent Americans and therefore can no longer rightly be called the government of America. By occupying the office, but defying Constitutional limitations it becomes a “foreign agent” and must be opposed and, if it does not comply, removed.

    Therefore, we have more “justification” than the founding fathers for our
    opposition to this foreign agent disguised by mere location as American
    government.

  • JeffH

    CAUGHT ON TAPE: Obamacare Navigators Counsel Applicants to “Lie”

    Could the Obamacare Navigators be another extension of ACORN?
    http://www.projectveritas.com/caught-on-tape-obamacare-navigators-counsel-applicants-to-lie/?roi=echo3-17638353333-15797853-98c26e7bc838636aa9a757d83ac7002c
    Watch as Obamacare navigators counsel a Project Veritas undercover journalist how to lie and cheat the federal government.

    This is just the first video uncovering the plethora of fraud already being committed just weeks after Obamacare’s rollout.

    • Jana

      Oh I saw that. Of course the left says that is the norm. Sure it isn’t.

      Another thing they don’t brag I mean tell people that try and get on that pathetic site is IT ISN’T A SECURE SITE. Wow anyone getting on healthcare.gov or whatever it is cause I am staying away from it is in trouble as it is ripe for hackers.

      • JeffH

        Jana, the 50,000 or so Obamacare Navigators are unvetted community activists hired without background checks and paid for with our tax dollars.

        Most of Obamacare Navigator Jobs are Held By Former ACORN Employees, Union “goons” & Planned Parenthood Abortion Activists
        http://12160.info/forum/topics/most-of-obamacare-navigator-jobs-are-held-by-former-acorn

        • Jana

          Exactly, they have found some have criminal backgrounds. YIKES!!! Obama just gets better and better at being a weasel and a con.

          * “Top 10 insane moments of Obama-Reid shutdown” by Gina Loudon. As one park ranger summed it up: “We’ve been told to make life as difficult for people as we can. It’s disgusting.”

          * “Game on: ‘We’re gonna punish our enemies'” by Art Moore, on the Obama strategy of rewarding friends and deliberately hurting adversaries

          * “Bombshell: White House planned the shutdown” by Garth Kant, on claims by a former Newsweek/New York Times Magazine editor who says, “Republicans walked into a trap set up by Valerie Jarrett and Obama”

          * “How Obama is deliberately crippling business” by Stan Marszalk, who says experts agree: The best way to hurt an economy is to “curtail availability of affordable energy” – exactly what Obama has done

          *”Barack Obama ‘a tragic figure'” by Lyle Rossiter, M.D., in which the veteran forensic psychiatrist and author explains why the commander in chief blocked WWII vets from their own memorial

          *”Bin Laden raid was game time for Obama” – You’ll never guess what the commander in chief was really doing during the highly touted Navy SEAL raid

          * “Obama’s shutdown campaign” by Paul Kengor, an eye-opening look at how the president’s latest games echo an old Communist Party tactic

          From “THE OBAMA GAMES”

          To name a few!

          • http://batman-news.com samurai

            Keep up the good fight fellow patriot. Give no quarter and take no quarter! We all know Sheriff Arpaio has been investigating Obama bin Laden for some time now and here is new evidence they have found on him.

            http://www.westernjournalism.com/team-arpaio-new-obama-fraud-evidence/

            Though the evidence is mounting, I don’t think anything will be done till after the conservatives take the Senate and keep the house in 2014. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

            You need both love of country and faith in GOD to be a patriot.

            “In the chain of human events, the birthday of the nation is indissolubly linked with the birthday of the Savior.”

            John Quincy Adams
            6th President of the U.S.

        • Robert Messmer

          Not all of them. Saw one newscast where they were trying to “sign up” and couldn’t connect. They then tried one of the “officially listed Navigators”. Turned out no one at that company KNEW they were supposed to be Navigators. News man stated that out of the 10 companies listed no one at any of them had any idea they were supposed to be Navigators.

    • http://www.rt.com Alondra

      How much more Kriminal activities will be tolerated?

      “christian” Kriminals are hating the God’s Word so much because It exposes their devilishness.

      “For there is NOTHING covered that will not be revealed, and hidden that will not be known.” – Jesus Christ (Mathew 10:26; Luke 8:17)

      “And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but ALL THINGS ARE NAKED AND OPEN to the eyes of Him to whom WE MUST GIVE ACCOUNT.” (Hebrews 4:13)

    • http://batman-news.com samurai

      Keep up the good fight fellow patriot. Give no quarter and take no quarter! Anything is possible with the Indonesian citizen occupying the White House. Here is an article about a final sermon from Billy Graham about our country.

      http://www.westernjournalism.com/billy-grahams-powerful-final-sermon/

      Let’s keep praying also and have God, as well as Jesus, taking part in this battle for our great country. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

      You need both love of country and faith in GOD to be a patriot.

      “The Word of Truth teaches in the clearest and most positive terms that all of the dead will be raised.”

      C. I. Scofield

      • Charlie

        Scofield is a false prophet writer ,,, notice ,,, he gave no Scripture reference and very little contexts …

  • macgyver1948

    There is nothing wrong with speaking out against the government if we feel the need, it is totally Constitutional. What might be wrong is inciting violence, civil war.

    • WTS/JAY

      I would support a non-violent revolution, meaning; non-compliance/civil-disobedience/boycott . Off course, a majority is required.

      • http://batman-news.com samurai

        How about a march like MLK, jr. did in the 60’s? Keep up the good fight fellow patriot. Give no quarter and take no quarter! Here is an article where a man said that he would rather die of cancer than accept Obama bin Laden Care.

        http://www.westernjournalism.com/cancer-patient-ill-die-rather-than-accept-obamacare/

        FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

        You need both love of country and faith in GOD to be a patriot.

        “Better to fight for something than to live for nothing.”

        General George S. Patton, Jr

        • WTS/JAY

          How about everybody turning off the “propaganda-machine” to begin with? I think that would be a very good start! From there, the sky’s the limit, as most would be actually thinking for the very first time in their lives.

        • Charlie

          Was MLK jr a True Christian per Acts 2:38 ???

    • Charlie

      Maco ,,, what did King Jesus Christ say to do at Luke 19:27 , also what does His verse mean at Matthew 10:34 ???

      • macgyver1948

        Charlie… Is your life so void of attention, is that why you offer this? OK but remember the King James Version of the Christian bibles is not my bible because it has nothing to do with the Hebrew Bible and especially Torah, no Christian Bible does..

        Luke 19:27

        King James Version (KJV)

        19:27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

        Charlie, it says your Jesus wants his listeners/readers to bring to him his enemies and keep them with him. Not my job Charlie boy.

        AND:

        For Matthew 10:34 my search says “No results found”. Sorry
        Charlie.

        • Charlie

          Maco ,,, wacko ,,, Truth is Truth ,,, no matter what you believe … Meanwhile … Praise King Jesus for Salvation and Healing … Acts 2:38 is Salvation …

  • ChuckS123

    I say the gov is like an 800 pound man. The dems want to spend $ billions to feed him french fries so he won’t starve to death. Conservatives say he should lose a little – or a lot – of weight.

    Slightly related joke – a person who’s perfectly round has a ‘sphere’ case of obesity.

  • http://batman-news.com samurai

    Good day fellow patriots. Keep up the good fight. Give no quarter and take no quarter! I smell that bacony scent of libturd and progturds roasting on a fire. This must be because they are getting smoked by the patriots on this site. Here is an article that explains why the ways of the libturds and progturds never work.

    http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2013/11/08/socialism_never_works

    Here is one showing how the libturds and progturds are wanting to raise taxes again. Sheesh! Aren’t we taxed enough already? Isn’t a $1 trillion dollar tax increase, Obama bin Laden Care, enough for these simpletons?

    http://www.thehill.com/blogs/on-the-money/budget/189741-dems-eye-tax-hikes-%E2%80%98here-we-go-again%E2%80%99

    I guess that they’ll never learn. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

    You need both love of country and faith in GOD to be a patriot.

    “Mr. Speaker, I think Mr. Docherty hit the nail squarely on the head. One of the most fundamental differences between us and the Communists is our belief in God.”

    U. S. Representative Charles Oakman
    (R) Michigan
    H.J. Resolution 371
    “Under God” in the Pledge of Allegiance

    • WTS/JAY

      The bacony scent? I think it’s more of a vegetably scent.

      • Jana

        To me it is a foul odor!

        • http://batman-news.com samurai

          Me too! Keep up the good fight fellow patriot. Give no quarter and take no quarter! Here is a video about how Vince Vaughn is a conservative.

          http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV/2013/11/08/Vince-Vaughn-Comes-Out-As-A-Conservative

          FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

          You need both love of country and faith in GOD to be a patriot.

          “Our nation is founded on a fundamental belief in God, and the first and most important reason for the existence of our government is to protect the God-given rights of our citizens. Indeed, Mr. President, over one of the dorrways to this very Chamber inscribed in the marble are the words “In God We Trust.” Unless those words amount to more than a carving in stone, our country will never be able to defend itself.”

          Senator Homer Ferguson
          (R) Michigan
          Senate Joint Resolution (S.J. 126)

          • Stuart Shepherd

            Capitalism and our form of government (as founded), with its’ Hobbesian concepts of “freedoms”/rights are about as Godly as you can get as far as politico-economic systems but, as a Christian, I do NOT believe they are God-given because I do not see that anywhere in the Bible. To the degree that they resemble the Ten Commandments, our LAWS would, obviously, be God-given. The Christian concept of “freedom” is different (although theoretically related)- Christ said that “you” will be “free” of the law to the degree that you are filled with the Holy Spirit – because you won’t actually NEED the law to be doing God’s will under those circumstances- that will come naturally (and the blood sacrifices, etc were no longer necessary or appropriate). This is a far cry, really, from saying that the “rights” described in the Bill of Rights are “God-given,” although they do seem like Godly political principles. There is no Natural law. I do not see that stated in the Bible ANYWHERE, therefore I do not believe it to be true. Satan is the god of this world (2 Corinthians 4:4). Without Christ, HE is our father (John 8:44). “Natural law” is Satanic!!

          • Charlie

            The existing so called government is NOT in compliance with The Bible or,,, The Constitution … SO? what “””Laws”” are U S A Inc. going by ???

      • http://batman-news.com samurai

        Keep up the good fight fellow patriot. Give no quarter and take no quarter! I guess they are a bunch of vegatables aren’t they? Especially from the neck up. Here is an article that tells how the Egyptians have charged Obama bin Laden with crimes against humanity.

        http://www.westernjournalism.com/watch-egyptian-lawyers-charge-obama-with-crimes-against-humanity/

        Here is an article that describes Obama bin Laden as a mobster.

        http://www.westernjournalism.com/barack-hussein-obama-the-ultimate-mobster/

        This reminds me of a little joke my youngest son learned in school.

        Q: What is the difference between government and the mafia?
        A: One is organized.

        FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

        You need both love of country and faith in GOD to be a patriot.

        “The true Christian is the true citizen.”

        Theodore Roosevelt
        26th President of the U.S.

    • Freespirit

      I agree with with ONE EXCEPTION. I DON’T believe in a God and I am NOT a Collectivist ( Communists are only one type of collectivist). In fact I am an Atheist religiously, ANARCHO-CAPITALIST Philosophically and a Libertarian politically

  • Karolyn

    A VERY interesting little presentation about wealth in America. Disturbing.

    http://www.utrend.tv/v/9-out-of-10-americans-are-completely-wrong-about-this-mind-blowing-fact/

    • lraivala

      And you do know that the wealth distribution is at an all time high with the lion’s share going to the same people you hate, while the poor and middle class have lost there biggest gains in nearly 40 years, RIGHT. Go do some real research into the matter and tell me how that turns out.

  • WTS/JAY

    Excellent article, Mr. Smith!

  • Michael Shreve

    It is self destructive to be PRO government. Always has been. The Founder KNEW that. WE have forgotten.

  • 1baronrichsnot1

    Well NO! Or should we say HELL NO! The founding fathers didn’t believe in a huge overbearing, tyrannical, intrusive, corrupt federal gov’t and I don’t believe anyone else does either! WAY, WAY, to big and tyrannical. Been that way since they were allowed to tax the states citizens, 16th amendment. I still like our premice of gov’t but that premice has turned to CACOCRACY! Way to big and the least qualified in our society is running it! Can you say marxism!

  • Freespirit

    The only statement by Brandon, I disagree with, COMPLETELY, is where he says: ” those who are anti-government for the wrong reasons” where he is distinguishing between “good” anti and “bad” anti.

    I say there is NO SUCH THING as a bad reason for being ANTI-GOVERNMENT. Government by its VERY NATURE is CORRUPTIBLE if not CORRUPT. That is because it is a CREATION of and by the Establishment, for their own PURPOSES, not the purposes of the people, except ON PAPER wherein they state it is for the People.

    There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING Government can do that Individuals or companies cannot do BETTER . WE only have to wake up to that TRUTH and have confidence in our OWN CREATIVE ABILITY

    • Vigilant

      Welcome to Obama’s world of Constitution trashers.

      • Freespirit

        If you are saying I am a “constitution trasher”, you only show your ignorance of English comprehension and thus me. You would have been better to ask me to qualify my comment, rather than a typically American, victim of the Un-education system, stupid rant

        The truth is I am a Libertarian and very much FOR a CONSTITUTION, albeit an improved version, such as, instead of the “RIGHT to HAPPINESS” which is subjective and thus impossible to protect or guarantee and REPLACE it with RIGHT to PROPERTY OWNERSHIP, which is OBJECTIVE and thus able to be PROTECTED and GUARANTEED…..is that too much for you to understand?

        I am sure you will have some idiotic response. After all, WINNING is more important than BEING RIGHT, for many Americans..to WIT all the WARS and violent movies, courtesy of Hollywood Zionists and Freemasons to satisfy the lust for VIOLENCE and Winning !!!

        • Vigilant

          “The truth is I am a Libertarian and very much FOR a CONSTITUTION, albeit an improved version, such as, instead of the “RIGHT to HAPPINESS” which is subjective and thus impossible to protect or guarantee and REPLACE it with RIGHT to PROPERTY OWNERSHIP, which is OBJECTIVE and thus able to be PROTECTED and GUARANTEED…..is that too much for you to understand?”

          Your ignorance is displayed in volumes with that statement. Perhaps you should read the Constitution sometime.

          The “right to happiness” appears nowhere in that document.

          Private property is protected by the Constitution. See the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments. The courts and state/local ordinances have pretty well killed the concept, but that’s not the fault of the Constitution.

          Is that too much for you to understand?

          • Freespirit

            Where are you proving I am a “constitution trasher” as you stated under my first comment??? You still don’t BUT you are trying to “Win” by avoiding your original accusations of me.

            You are simply PROVING”Winning” is more important than “being RIGHT” to you and MANY Americans, by this very comment you just made and I thank you for that.

            I rest my case and have NOTHING further to say in order to satisfy your “lust” for winning.

          • Vigilant

            “I say there is NO SUCH THING as a bad reason for being ANTI-GOVERNMENT.”

            The Constitution is a plan for government and the Law of the Land. If you are against ALL government, then you must logically include the Constitution in that sweeping generality. That’s called “logic.” something of which you may be unversed. Talk about public so-called “education.”

            You said, “You would have been better to ask me to qualify my comment.” Why? I took you at face value, the only way I ever expect to be taken.

            In case it escaped your notice, I won AND I was right.

          • Freespirit

            Your atrocious”logic” of non sequiturs is so typical, of a failing education system ( especially in the art of logic), but , if you believethe illusion you have “won” just like so many Americans think they are winning their many and varied wars, including against the Establishment, then all the more power to you. I wish you the best. You most certainly do and will need it. Bye for now and until the next article

          • Vigilant

            My logic is crystal clear and impeccable. If you can somehow reconcile being pro-Constitution and anti-government at the same time, then you should state your case instead of running away from the argument.

            “I wish you the best.” No you don’t, so why pretend?

            P.S. Learn the meaning of the term “non sequitur” before you misuse it again. A course in elementary logic wouldn’t hurt either.

          • Freespirit

            I believe am wasting my time with you BUT here goes: Why does one need a Government to have a CONSTITUTION? There are people who believe we need a Government in order to have, Roads; to have Schools; to have a Military etc.etc. etc.You and your non-thinking cohorts foolishly BELIEVE we need a Government to have many things including, as you believe, a Constitution.What is the difference between any of you?
            My CONSTITUTION is NATURAL LAW and you can go to any Library or Online to find out what Natural law is. If it would make you happy a PRIVATE company could PRINT millions of copies of NATURAL LAW and distribute it to all people who want it, and who hopefully believe in it.
            NATURAL LAW states that ALL Individuals have the ABSOLUTE and INHERENT ( not “God Given”)RIGHTS to , Life, Liberty and PROPERTY Ownership. IN other words the CONSTITUTION ALREADY EXISTS and WITHOUT Government.
            Actually I am beginning to believe you are either very stupid or a TROLL for the “REPUBLICRATS” or maybe just a shill for the Left.. Either way I know you will not
            accept this COMMONS SENSE because your goal is just to WIN, not learn in truth, which is exactly WHY America is finished- because of people like you who cannot think outside the BOX!
            Government is your religion and I pity you .

          • http://personalliberty.com/ Bob Livingston

            Dear Freespirit,

            I believe you misunderstand the need for the Constitution. It restricts government (in theory) from taking away your rights under natural law. And believe me, Vigilant understands natural law. He is not your enemy, unless you are leftist troll disruptor.

            Best wishes,
            Bob

          • Freespirit

            I don’t misunderstand Vigilant, Bob nor do I agree he understands Natural rights, as you say. If he did he would not be making such foolish statements.

            To comment on what you say- I say, No individual, organization or GOVERNMENT can take away ones rights.They can only ABROGATE rights, which is VERY different. Rights are NATURAL not granted to us by a God or government etc. No matter what government or others do, I still HAVE MY RIGHTS. They can only have me in Prison or even dead but that does not dismiss the FACT I had my rights at all times. Of course when one is dead, rights are not relevant because you no longer exist.

            I further don’t think of Vigilant as my” enemy” as you say. He is misguided and thinks only in the box as so man Westerners, including you, in many cases( I noticed your typical rant against Muslims) do and I am a Westerner who doesn’t. The BOX I speak of is BELIEVING in RULE by an Authority, such as Government, instead of Rule by oneself.

          • http://personalliberty.com/ Bob Livingston

            Dear Freespirit,

            You write: “They can only ABROGATE rights, which is VERY different.” You are arguing semantics as the the result is the same for the individual.

            You write: “( I noticed your typical rant against Muslims)” What typical rant would that be?

            You write: “I further don’t think of Vigilant as my” enemy” as you say.” Then why do you respond to him so rudely?

            Best wishes,
            Bob

          • Freespirit

            I spotted an article sometime last week and sorry but I don’t remember the title.

          • Freespirit

            …and it is NOT semantics ,Bob and I am surprised you would say that,but then again,maybe I shouldn’t be surprised

          • Freespirit

            I further tried to find the article, a day later, which may have been the week before last, but couldn’t find it at the time and suspected you may have deleted it. I remember being disgusted by it because I have a lot of respect for your writings. In fact I cancelled your emails to me because of it. Maybe I acted in haste and over time may renew, if I see a return to you Libertarian principles.

          • http://personalliberty.com/ Bob Livingston

            Dear Freespirit,

            You write: “but couldn’t find it at the time and suspected you may have deleted it.” I have not deleted any articles.

            You write: ” Maybe I acted in haste and over time may renew, if I see a return to you Libertarian principles.” I do not claim to adhere to “libertarian principles.” I consider myself a Constitutional conservative.

            Best wishes,
            Bob

          • http://personalliberty.com/ Bob Livingston

            Dear Freespirit,

            You write: ” I remember being disgusted by it” It is difficult to respond to a charge when you cannot be specific.

            You write: ” In fact I cancelled your emails to me because of it.” That’s not very open minded of you.

            Perhaps this will help explain some things for you.
            http://personalliberty.com/2012/07/16/answers/

            Best wishes,
            Bob

          • Freespirit

            Let this be a response to your last two replies to me: I have taken this from the link you just sent me: “We have a great many loyal readers on this site. You have made us the No. 9 Libertarian site on the Web.”

            THAT ,Bob is how I determined you are Libertarian-Was I wrong??? I did read this a while ago also and is probably why I believed you were libertarian. Of course, in the end, actions speak louder than words and your comments( “actions”) seem to prove, at least lately, you are not libertarian

            Yes you are right by accusing me of “not being open minded, with regards that decision and I, in effect said that to you in my comment when I said “I may have acted in haste”

            I might also add sometimes your system does not accept my comments. I had that trouble earlier this week. I use a proxy, for privacy and security and possibly THAT is the reason

            Time will tell I guess

          • WTS/JAY

            You’re very spirited, Freespirit, i’ll give you that!

          • Freespirit

            I try and maybe it is my 73 years of living, experiencing and studying.

          • Charlie

            Doggie ,, stays in his sand box and barks at the moon … can you beat that ???

          • WTS/JAY

            Me thinks someone is projecting…

        • C K Johnson

          I do not agree with the right to property ownership. That is not a right. That has to be something you work for. Same with a Car, Television, Computer ECT. I know this statement is from someone who does not know everything they are talking about. Freespirit the comments made about Free And Accepted Master Masons. That is an outright lie. You are a CONSTITUTIONAL trasher and you show your ignorance of ENGLISH comprehension to the world to see. Your above answers do not need to be qualified. Because those statements are GARBAGE. And if you think you are as smart as the men who drafted the CONSTITUTION .You are a very STUPID man Honor is not something you or anyone can buy. And it is obvious you have none.

    • C K Johnson

      I agree with you completely. You could take a very good CEO. And let them run the government. And make the President a figure head. Most presidents have never owned a business. Or had to make a payroll with their own money.

  • lraivala

    The ones who oppose the people who are against the government and their devious motives, are the ones who want big government running their lives and everything else it does.
    It is our Constitutional Right to challenge the government in every move they make no matter which side of the aisle you sit politically. To blindly follow someone or anyone is a fools journey.
    Being anti-government is not a bad thing as the elitists in Washington D.C. keep trying to tell you, it is the only thing keeping you from being a communist country.

    • C K Johnson

      I agree with your comment. The government is controlling our lives, I oppose almost everything this government is doing. There is to much cover up. And out of control spending. That goes from the top to the bottom of government.

    • denise0513

      While I agree it is our Constitutional Right to challenge the government, I DUTY to challenge the government.

  • Chris

    “we will inevitably move to end the system as we know it”…………..”HOW”? Don’t tell me “voting” because that’s a BIG joke.

  • Hap Harris

    “DON’T TREAD ON ME” either-!!!! When our country’s government is corrupted and permeated with criminal activity to the level our’s is, there is no reason not to be anti-governmant.
    When God begins to chastise, He starts by sending his depraved people decadent leaders.
    So, first look into your own hearts, seek the one true God and amend your lives and He will send you consecrated leadership.

  • Charlie

    Brandon ,,, good write , but , a little short on The Government Book America was founded under … Since , you are the good “Kid” on the Block and I ‘ve been around “The Block” at least a few time toting “The Government Book” , America was ruled under for at least the first 50 years or more … The Government , you are writing of is the “state god” government that was brought about by The Declaration of Independence and Constitution … The Constitution makes no special or specific mention of King Jesus Christ or His Father The Almighty God…
    So? The Constitution is in violation of The First Commandment from the get go …
    See Isaiah 33:22,,, it’s basically says The Almighty God is the 3 branches of Government and “Our” Government ,,,IF?,,, “We” say ” God Bless America ……….
    So? it is NOT wrong to be anti- CEG ,,,corrupt evil government ,,, BUT ,,, it is wrong to be anti – Christ in thought or deed … Meanwhile … Praise King Jesus for Salvation and Healing … Acts 2:38 is Salvation …