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Investment Forecast for 2010: The Dollar’s Demise Sets the Table

January 6, 2010 by  

Investment Forecast for 2010: The Dollar’s Demise Sets the Table

The air was stifling. It was thick with dust and hung in clouds through the sweltering corridors. I was 7,000 feet deep in a Transvaal gold mine.

Worse than the heat was the noise. I had to yell to my guide, the chief economist for JCI Mines.

I cupped my hands to make a horn, and over the roar of tractor engines and jackhammer drills I yelled: “What do you see for gold next year?”

My Afrikaner escort shouted over the din: “You tell me what the dollar does and I will tell you what gold does!”

It just so happened that the year was 1990 and the U.S. greenback was about to make one of its biggest bull runs ever. The result was a bear market in bullion that took the price of gold all the way down to $252 per ounce.

Today, with the price of gold about $900 higher than it was then, the same question regarding gold in 2010 cuts to the wick: What is the dollar going to do?

An Avalanche of Money
One thing is certain. This is not your father’s Federal Reserve.

The Fed that existed 30 years ago was chaired by Paul Volcker. Volcker was brought in to curb soaring inflation. To do that he decided his first priority was to protect the dollar, recession be damned. At the same time Ronald Reagan was coming into office. He was trying to curb government spending.

As the chart below shows, Volcker jacked the Fed funds rate up to almost 20 percent. In the process the United States endured a great rolling recession that devastated the commodity markets and farmers. Yet for the next two decades the dollar would be the world’s kingpin currency.

With the exception of The Crash of 1987 the U.S. economy was on firm ground, and prosperity was growing.

Then came a speculative stock bubble, 9/11 and runaway deficits.

In the wake of all this are President Obama and Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke who are not squeezing a single thing! Instead they are creating a tsunami of money. It amounts to throwing gasoline on a fire.

In just over a year the Fed has increased our monetary base by a whopping 120 percent! That is more than double the previous highest annual increase over the past 50 years. The Fed has made huge loans to private lenders and bought more than $1 trillion of mortgage securities and hundreds of billions of dollars of long-term Treasury bonds. It has succeeded in lowering the federal funds rate below 1 percent—and even, for most of the time, to less than half that.

Washington is trying to jump-start the economy with unprecedented amounts of money. Yet the old economist adage holds, “It’s like pushing on a string.”

 Unless there is demand for money by willing lenders and borrowers the economy is not going to improve. What is going to happen is a train-wreck for the dollar.

The dollar is more than 14 percent off its March peak, and some worry that additional losses could prompt foreign investors to start selling dollar-denominated assets.

But while a sluggish U.S. recovery and low interest rates mean the dollar may have further to fall in the year ahead, very low inflation means a crisis is far from imminent, said Henry Kaufman, president of Henry Kaufman & Company, Inc.

"There has been no dollar crisis," Kaufman said. "The retreat of the dollar has been gradual, it has been orderly and it has not had an impact on the securities market."

Perhaps so, but as this U.S. Dollar Index chart shows, the greenback is still fading fast in a bear market that began eight years ago. If the dollar continues its slide in 2010, as I think it will, it will break below its 2008 lows of 71.5. When that happens the dollar will be in uncharted territory. Just how far it could slump from here is anybody’s guess, but with offshore investors holding trillions in dollar assets, the dollar’s direction is of critical importance to everyone.

Of course if you want to you can buy a 30-year T-bond today that will pay you a 4.7 percent annual return. Given that the real rate of inflation is at more than five percent, that is a losing proposition.

Now the only reason that Washington has been able to get away with selling such risk for such a miserable return is two-fold:

  1. Nations like China, India, Japan and Germany don’t have another currency to put their surpluses into.
  1. The deflation fears from 2008 still linger, so rather than put money into real estate or real assets, trillions of dollars are being invested in U.S. Treasuries.

But disgruntlement among lenders is growing quickly, leaving the U.S. bond market ripe for a collapse. Last month Treasuries fell, with the gap in yields between 2-year and 30-year securities reaching its widest margin since 1980. This means that people holding long-term Treasury bonds want a much larger return than those investing in short-term Treasuries. The reason is simple—long-term confidence in the dollar is evaporating.

Meanwhile the U.S. continues to be a beggar of last resort. To pay for all of President Obama’s plans the government has to auction off hundreds of billions of dollars in U.S. Treasuries this year.

In 2006 the U.S. bond market was worth an estimated $44 trillion. If interest rates rise, as I think they will, trillions of dollars in wealth could disappear. That is not just wealth held by foreigners but by all Americans.

Furthermore, the biggest danger will be the U.S. will have to finance its deficits with additional Treasury debt. To get those loans, interest rates will certainly climb.

Forecast for 2010
Dollar: Look for an even weaker dollar in 2010. The U.S. Dollar Index is close to breaking down and losing all technical support. That could throw traders into frenzy.

Bonds: Expect a smash-up in the bond market as investors are now holding bonds that pay a pittance. To sell off its Treasury debt the Fed is going to be forced to raise interest rates which will throw bond prices into a tailspin. Higher rates will also be a stake in the heart of the…

Stock Market: The Dow Industrials are flirting with 11,000. My expectation is that the Dow may touch upon this level before higher rates drive stock prices lower. Look for the Dow to be under 7,500 by the end of the year. I expect an even worse year for the tech-packed NASDAQ. This year will be a tough year for investors unless they are in real assets, especially…

Precious Metals: Gold continues to shine, although expected profit taking will happen along the way. Washington and other governments would love to keep a cap on the price of bullion, but right now they have much bigger fish to fry. My expectation is that the Midas metal will top $1,500 per ounce before year’s end and silver will rise from the $17 range to $25 per ounce. That leaves us with one other key sector…

Energy: It is going to be a mixed bag for energy this year. In fact, oil could easily fall back toward the $60 per barrel range if interest rates increase enough to choke off the recovery. Still, world demand for oil continues to grow. I think that over the long-term oil prices are headed back toward $150 per barrel. That may not happen, however, until we are closer to 2012.

Well, there you have it… my forecast for 2010. But keep in mind something that the Yankee great, Yogi Berra, said, “Prediction is very hard, especially about the future.”

Yours for real wealth and good health,

John Myers
Myers’ Energy and Gold Report

John Myers

is editor of Myers’ Energy and Gold Report. The son of C.V. Myers, the original publisher of Oilweek Magazine, John has worked with two of the world’s largest investment publishers, Phillips and Agora. He was the original editor for Outstanding Investments and has more than 20 years experience as an investment writer. John is a graduate of the University of Calgary. He has worked for Prudential Securities in Spokane, Wash., as a registered investment advisor. His office location in Calgary, Alberta, is just minutes away from the headquarters of some of the biggest players in today’s energy markets. This gives him personal access to everyone from oil CEOs to roughnecks, where he learns secrets from oil insiders he passes on to his subscribers. Plus, during his years in Spokane he cultivated a network of relationships with mining insiders in Idaho, Oregon and Washington.

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  • MJ Montana

    Once again Myers is way too negative. The recent numbers on the economy show an improvment in many sectors. For example Ford posted more than a 30 percent gain in car sales in December.

    Obama’s Stimilus Package is making a big difference. And all indications, including the stock market, show better times ahead. It is like FDR said, “The only thing to fear, is fear itself.”

    If the country would just get behind the kind of needed change that Obama is laying out, including new technologies, we will all be a lot better off.

    • TeresaE

      Yes, Ford showed a 30% “gain” in December, yet their sales are STILL down from 2008 which was a DISMAL year.

      Americans purchased fewer cars in 2009, then in 1982, do you have any idea how much bigger our population is now?

      These “upticks” aren’t reaching the driver of this country, small business. Yes, December was better for my company, and my friends, but we are still down SIXTY percent from 2006.

      The government stats are BS, and the only reason Treasury interest rates are low is that the Federal Reserve is buying the debt! Nothing more than a check-kiting scheme. Quick, name ONE check-kiting scheme that hasn’t ended badly.

      • http://www.thetexasring.com Linda Brady Traynham

        Nice, Teresa. We were toying with the sort of statistics the Government puts out trying to look as though it is being “open,” and it sure looks to my colleague and me that only 200 billion in treasures were actually “sold” last year. The rest of them were swaps back and forth between government entities or paid for with cash slipped into diplomatic pouches (electronic digits, whatever) to “friendly” nations who pretended to buy our paper. The estimate for 2010 is that the US will need to borrow two trillion, two hundred billion or eleven times what were actually sold this year. China and Pimco say they aren’t going to buy any more. The Fed says IT isn’t going to buy any more after the end of the first quarter, although it is going to sop up a trillion or two before that. How very interesting. I’m a nice lady; even if those figures are lies on the order of what the unemployment rate is, and they are only HALF as bad as given…anybody have any ideas who might buy our examples of the engravers’ art? Don’t look at me! I’m Mrs. Doom & Gloom and my advice remains to close out your safety deposit banks, get in the habit of withdrawing money every Friday afternoon. (in case you are the victim of a “Surprise!”) Interest on checking accounts is so tiny that pulling money is very inexpensive insurance. Swap those FRNs for anything sensible that will lock in what little value is left. IF we have a bank “holiday,” sudden devaluation of the dollar (my guess is we’ll be lucky to get one new whatchmacallit–Amero, Obama, Bernanke–for three old ones, which isn’t going to be a pleasant situation.), or collapse of the dollar/bond market/economy/ any interesting disaster you can come up with those ugly, increasingly worthless bits of gaudy paper aren’t going to be good for much other than firelighters or wall paper. (If they move the presidents much farther to the Left they’re going to fall off. And what’s with the PURPLE? That’s weird.) It is anybody’s guess what will give first. New York and California, perhaps? Both are bankrupt, and both just gave massive raises to the upper quarter of government workers. 40% of all those who actually have jobs among those who want jobs work for government at one level at another. Is that the new Party Membership from the days of the USSR? It is certainly one possibility. I made my bets three years ago and I have changed my mind; get entirely out of stocks and bonds, simplify your lives, and get hold of land and a little livestock. Go raise goats, chickens, and gardens, because FOOD has an excellent chance of being the REAL new money. What can I say? If James Howard Kunstler had a sweet twin sister, I might be it. You pays your money and you takes your chances. Literally. Postage stamps are too fragile, I’m not sure the IDC can continue to keep artificially high prices in diamonds, I don’t like anybody else’s stock market or economy, either, gold is too dense a store of value for most of us, and silver is twice the highest classic exchange rate with gold. Do as thou wilst, but I’m going to keep putting money in tangible things like with high barter potential. Good luck with your choices. Maybe we’ll get lucky and the “worst” we’ll face is The Greater Depression for fifteen or twenty years.

        Linda Brady Traynham

        • Dale Reid

          Thanks Linda, All I can say is: DITTO DITTO DITTO!!!!!

        • cr747

          Linda, sounds to me like you have got all your ducks in order. I to believe on the same course that you do. Just recently I went to the bank to make a deposit witch was a fairly large amount. Told the lady I wanted some of it back in cash, and she said they couldn’t do that. It would have to be ten working days to clear. Mind you this check was written on the World Bank, so I thought to my self, something fishy here. I let it go,and withdrew from one of my other accounts. What I am trying to say is, if The World Bank is not strong enough for $10,000.00 to $15,000.00 dollars, then Something is fishy.

          So please everyone with funds in a bank, watch closely about what is happening at your bank. This is the first time something like this has ever happen to me. The bank knows me personally, and I do a large amount of business at this bank. Needless to say I had an appointment to talk with the board at their next meeting. I let them know that if this ever happen to me again, I would be looking for another source for my banking.

        • cr747

          I also am a little curious about all the gold adds we are seeing. I wonder sometimes if the Government has got something to do with this. If you will notice some of the people making the adds are beginning to be people that are associated with the Government. So don’t make any mistakes there, and watch what you are signing. In other words read all the fine print!!!!!!!!!!

      • DaveH

        Those sales figures are tainted by the cash for clunkers purchases. What happens now that a large part of the demand for new cars has been satiated with the cash for clunkers purchases?
        http://www.clevelandfed.org/research/trends/2009/1009/03ecoact.cfm

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          It says in the end sentence, exactly what I thought, is that it stole from future sales, and now that all these people bought cars that normally wouldnt have, future sales will slump even worse. The government should not have got involved with this. All they touch goes down the drain. In this case, it was down the drain, they plunged it up, and now it soon will be circling the drain again, and I hope upon hope they dont throw more good money after bad like they did this time.

          • cr747

            Beberoni, what has happen here is the Government took advantage of a lot of people that now can not afford the payments. So, these people not only got took advantage of, but now they do not have a means of transportation. So I feel the Government misled a lot of people.

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          To Cr747: Not only that, but the way I understand it, they took all these used cars, some in very good shape, and destroyed them, which takes good affordable used cars off the market, thus lessening the competition the new cars have, and taking affordable cars off the market that someone without a lot of money may have liked to buy. Also, I do know for a fact, quite a few people with a lot of money, who would have been buying a new car or truck anyways, took advantage and got a new car and saved some bucks. But it was presented all like it was to help out the poor, and thats just not the case at all.

          • cr747

            You are so right. Yes some of these vehicles were in fairly good condition. Yes some people would have been able to afford them, and they did scrap them. It is a shame.

          • DaveH

            Don’t expect economic proficiency from Democrats.

    • SoCA

      The gov will do all it can to prop up the dollar & it can for a short time. After that the house of cards (the USD) will fall. Hyperinflation is around the corner – the USD is worth about 15% of its value 25 years ago. You will need a new Ford SUV to haul the stack of USD around to buy your groceries. I’m not sure what figures you look at to judge the economy but they are all down. Except unemployment it’s over 10% (using the gov’ phony numbers)- actually it’s closer to 20%+ if you count under employed and drop outs. Quoting FDR is like listen to Obama saying he’s going to get serious about fixing the economy -ha! We’ll spend our way out by printing more money – yea, that’ll work!!

      • MGK

        Just look back in history. This is what happened to Germany between WWI and WWII. They printed money until is became worthless. This enabled Hitler to come into power and almost take over the world. Don’t think the “progressives” don’t know this. This is the ultimate plan to bring socialism to the good old USA. The “baby-boomers” will be looked at as the generation to bring down America. Just follow history folks. This “ain’t” rocket science. Throw them “all” out!

        • DaveH

          Indeed, MGK, all. Republicans should call or email the Republican National Committee and let them know that they aren’t getting their vote unless the Republicans put up candidates that promise to cut back on the size of Government. That means getting rid of most of the Republican Incumbents.
          Better yet, Vote Libertarian, the only Political Party that has stuck consistently to its Platform of Limited Government, Individual Liberty, and Individual Responsibility:
          http://libertarianparty.org/platform

          • http://roger.drake.dbi@gmail.com gene

            Remember folks, there are always about 30% of the population that will vote for anything that resembles an entitlement. We have allowed this obamanation to endure on the backs of the taxpayer.

          • cr747

            Hey DaveH, don’t just pick on the republicans here. The democrats are guilty to. I am a democrat, but I did not vote for this administration, I noticed a rat when Obama was debating with the other candidates. That’s when I made my decision not to vote for them!!!!!!!!!

          • DaveH

            I thought you all knew what my feelings are about the Democrat incumbants.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            Im seriously looking at them Dave, I really am.

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          Seems to me its the same hippies from the sixties that thought they knew it all then, and had no respect for authority or anything else, are now the same guys running things, and still they have no respect for authority or anything or anyone else. They now call the shots, and have a couple of generations of kids with no dads or no moms running around voting for them, because they were never taught respect or the right way either. No wonder things are such a mess.

        • Mary

          One world government, that is what this is all about. But you all wanted change and a messiah. So much for change and your messiah

      • Ardvark

        SoCA, you have hit the nail squarely on the head. The dollar situation is very volitile. Yet the last time the dollar was so badly battered was 30 years and it staged an amazing recovery. It seems so hard to know which way this thing is going to break.

    • DaveH

      MJ,
      Here is an article you should read before you purchase any auto-company shares:
      http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2010/01/05/460549.html

    • George

      Montana

      If only it were true. Obama is trying to remake the USA into a socialist country. That’s not change that “we” believe in. Of course, the libs may think the USA would be a better place if the government took over and controlled everything, but conservatives and libertarians don’t.

      I don’t think there is much evidence that the “stimulus” package has had much effect on the economy at all yet since only a small part of it has actually been spent, and little has been spent on anything that will really create new jobs. So much of it has gone to states and organizations as political pay-off which won’t create any new jobs, but does waste a lot of money. If the Dems really wanted to stimulate the economy, they should focus on stimulating small businesses where new jobs are created, not so much on large businesses, and certainly not unions, where they get so much of their campaign funding. One of the quickest and most efficient ways to help small businesses is to cut their taxes. Also, programs that make capital available to them at attractive costs will help as well. I see little to none of that in the stimulus bill. Even where taxes are reduced on the one hand, they are raised somewhere else, so the net effect for these businesses will be higher costs to do business.

      So, if the economy does improve, it won’t be because of anything the Dems or Obama is doing. It’ll be on its own. Even then, a recovery will not be as robust as it would have otherwise been if government had either actually done things to help or just stayed out of the way….

    • Robert

      GM just reported a 33% loss. Unemployment at 10.2%. Housing here in Florida remains stagnant in sales while values are falling below 35% and in some areas 50%. Florida unemployment at 12.3%. Bankrupcies and foreclosures are steadily rising. Obama has quadrupled the deficit left by Bush in just 7 months. In October-November the Treasury Department reported it spent $291.4 Billion more than it took in…..while at the same time, Congress voted for pay raises for federal employees. Promises are not kept by Obama. Americans no longer have faith in someone who openly lies and no longer have faith or hope with a Congress that operates a government that has no accountability and consequences for it’s malfeasance. Your thinking sir, is the very reason we have these incompetants in charge.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        The result of too many brain dead people constantly watch the brain sucker in their houses, hearing a guy say change change change, and so they thought he sounded good. Problem was, they didnt take the time to educate themselves as to who he is, what he is, where he is from, where he wants to go to, and how he wants to get there. He was never made to divulge any of this, and the dummies blindly elected the figure they heard on their brain sucker saying change change change. Sad commentary on society today.

        • cr747

          Beberoni, this is where people didn’t listen to what all was being said. Also the expressions on their faces. Sometimes you have to read between the lines to make out when a person is lying. Good comment!!!!!!! I don’t know where this Dennis has been, but he is up a creek without a paddle!!!!!!!!!

    • James

      You’re drinking LIME, I believe. Back off on the ice and the rush won’t hit you so hard.

      • James

        For the record, this comment is not mine. There are two James’ here.

        • DaveH

          Would you guys distinguish yourselves please?

        • coal miner

          James,

          Put a letter behind your name,so we know who you are.

  • Concerned Citizen

    I don’t understand… if the rest of the world has no other currencies to hold other than dollars, why should we fear its demise. I know the on the one hand the argument is for a weaker buck, but at the same time it probably can’t get much weaker. The dollar is the only reserve currency in the world. For Europe and Asia it seems to me to be a case of like it or lump it. Certainly they can’t stash all their monies in gold or Euros.

    • DaveH

      Citizen,
      It doesn’t matter if the rest of the world is in the same bed, we will still suffer greatly from the excess debt and dollar creation.
      If the money supply has indeed doubled (which I don’t doubt) then the buying power of the dollar will necessarily shrink by half. Right now, the prices are relatively stable, but that is because we are in a nasty recession. Soon, recession or not, that excess money is going to start coming out of hiding and the prices are going to start rising.
      As has happened in countries throughout the world the Government will keep creating money to make sure its gang (Government workers) get paid, and inflation will run rampant. Inflation rates in South America reached as high as 1000% per year back in the 1970s and 1980s.
      Read this Wikipedia article on hyperinflation, it’s an eye-opener:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperinflation

      • DaveH

        If you really are a Concerned Citizen, my advice to you is to start seeking advice soon on how best to protect your cash savings.

        • George

          Good morning Dave. Can you share any ideas on how we might do this? Thanks.

          • DaveH

            Hi George. Investing is a very personal thing, so don’t take my advice without doing some thorough studying.
            I would put a portion in hard assets like Silver or Gold with physical possession. I like Silver best because its main market is commercial, so it will benefit if the economy did improve as well as being an inflation hedge. Also, Silver comes in a more negotiable size since it is much cheaper than Gold.
            Another portion could be put in Precious Metals Funds and/or Natural Resource Funds.

            The key is hard physical assets that won’t lose their real value (such as guns) and will appreciate with the decrease in the value of the dollar.

      • Happy

        You are on target. The dollar is being destroyed every time we print more dollars. Hope American are waking up to this fact and get some hard assets to protect ourselves when that horrible reality arrives.

    • El Chichon’

      Concerned Citizen,
      Osamabama wants to take wealth away from the American people and give it to the third world. This will in turn bring the third world up and bring the Americans down to the third world level. This will even the playing field to make it easier for the elite bilderbergs, the tri-laterals, etc. to rule over us ignorant donkeys that give them more and more power by giving them our hard earned money through taxation. They want a one world government so there will be no middle class, there will only be either the rich or the dirt poor, no in between. Divide and conquer, its just that simple. It is known as communism. Before you know it we will all be no better than the Afgani cave dwellers that don’t have since enough to pour piss out of a shoe. This is what they are striving for. It wasn’t but a few months back that Eddie Haskell (Timmy Gietner) suggested that they do away with the American dollar and go to an international currency. If this is allowed to happen, as soon as the American dollar goes away, then so does our soverignty and our freedom. THINK PEOPLE!!!!! This is no longer a euphoric utopian kum ba ya nation like the liberals think it is. The liberals think the sun rises and sets in Osamabamas gangly anal orifice. Kinda like his “take over America” emblem but only different.

  • Ardvark

    Mr. Myers should check out another Yogi Berra quote: “I didn’t really say everything I said.”

    I have a feeling Myers will be wanting to write that soon.

    Montana is right, things are getting better not worse. Look for the doom and gloomers to rue the day they got so negative on America’s future.

    • http://www.thetexasring.com Linda Brady Traynham

      Dear Aardvark:

      I don’t suppose you ever actually read “Atlas Shrugged?” Things are far worse than even Ayn Rand envisioned, but you made me think of a comment by one of the main characters: “Gentlemen, I regret that I will be obliged to save your necks along with mine,” or words to that effect. I’m looking forward to getting out of the neck-saving business. I’m only in it now because the government gets so unpleasant when we don’t pay property and income taxes.

      The last time anyone told me I was an idiot for something I wrote, I was buying silver at 13 when he insisted it would retreat to ten long before it hit fifteen. We all know how that one turned out-and I stopped buying at 13. You go buy some nice Government Motors stock or T-Bills and I’ll buy a dump trailer or a used bulldozer, and we’ll see who is most pleased with his or her investment come summer time. Who knows? Perhaps things won’t fall apart for eighteen months. Could be it will happen by the end of the quarter. In the meantime I can move a lot of dirt with my toys. Green shoots? You’re seeing algae growing on the side of your fish tank.

      Cordially,

      Linda Brady Traynham

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        You could use your bulldozer to help bury that junk that GM keeps putting out, no doubt from the “its not my job” attitude of the workers, and from the “can I write a million dollar bonus” from the corporates. Those guys are like dueling to see who can fleece GM the most, that building quality and have a commitment to the company is and has been long gone, and yet they wonder why they are in the shape they are in.

        • George

          I’ve got a couple GMC vehicles, and have been pretty happy with both of them. However, it saddens me to think that GM will likely be producing “YUGOs” in the future with the government and the unions running it. This is just way too much weight for any company to have to carry around in a highly competitive market…..

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            Oh my gosh, did you say YUGO? Brand new, 4 grand. What, was it like 3 years and they were gone? Classic car eh? Like the Gremlin, and dont forget, the AMC Pacer, remember it, the fishbowl on wheels? Oh yes, the lemon classics.

          • George

            Beberoni,

            Careful, you may be giving away your age…..ha. I used the Yugo as an example because it was built by the Communist-owned and managed Yugoslavian government car company. In my mind, this gives us some idea what can happen to our car companies (or any other company for that matter) when they are run by government and union bureaucrats….
            This is NOT capitalism at its finest moment, and government-run companies don’t make the best products in a competitive market.

    • DaveH

      You just keep your head in your burrow and keep wishing and hoping.
      Do you really think a Government takeover of our economy is going to result in greater productivity? It hasn’t worked anywhere else in the world, what makes you think it will work here? If spending and creating extra money was the answer to economic problems, then there would be no poor countries. They would just spend themselves into prosperity.
      Read this article on Sweden, the Country that many aspiring Socialists point to as a model to imitate:
      http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=1020&full=1

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        The more government interferes, the worse things will get. Lets review their records. They run the school systems. They are going broke, and the expenditures for them keep going up and up, yet the education is going down and down. They run social security, and despite taking in record revenues from all the baby boomers for what, 40 to 60 years, they are now broke, and blame it on baby boomers taking out of it. Duh, what happened to all the money they put in for all those years? They run medi-care and medi-caid, both broke and in debt. They run this country, and are billions in debt. Now there are jokers that havent a clue, voting for these guys to run our health care system. What? Are they crazy?. Everytime government expands and gets involved in things, it creates a mess, and we the people suffer from it. Bigger government is a curse to the people and needs to stop. Smaller government and more responsible people is the answer. Growing government is a recipe for disaster, and shame on you who are content to live your lives dependant upon them.

        • DaveH

          And then on top of that, Beberoni, we have to endure those starry-eyed Liberals getting on this board and insulting our intelligence. What a bunch of whack-jobs.

          • George

            I love that comment….ha.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            Thing is Dave, is Im no rocket scientist myself, but it doesnt take much more that a lab rat to understand that growing government is not a good thing for the people, and it is a dangerous thing. Its as easy as 2 plus 2 equals 4. You grow government, it costs billions more to run it, so you pay more taxes to support it, and as it grows, it finds the need to expand more to support itself, and it in turns grows more and more social agencies, that cost more and more, so we in turn pay even more and more taxes. Plus as this thing continues to grow, it interferes more and more with ones freedom, and starts dictating what you can and cant do, and of course, making us all pay for it at the same time.

          • George

            Beberoni,

            You’re using way too much common sense to figure this out. You’re looking at the details within the picture. They look at the outline. They aren’t bothered by the problems getting where they think we ought to go. They just “know” that we need to do this, and do that, etc. Someone, somewhere will figure out all of the details to make it work. Just trust in your ideals, they think….. Some see that approach as bold leadership. Others, like us, see it as immature childishness…..

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            To George: You must be right, because they are looking at something other than what is really there, like the facts and the truth.

        • American Citizen

          There are also the programs the Feds mandate the states to put into place. The Feds may fund them for a couple of years, then put that onus on the states. The programs either last for a couple of years or more, then go bust as the states can’t afford to keep funding them.
          I worked for one that was in the school systems called Title IX if I remember correctly. It was a program where we tutors worked a half day to help children with their reading and comprehension. After I retired, as well as a couple others my age, I learned they did not replace us as the monies were not there. I believe the program was kaput a couple of years ago, much to the detriment of the children who needed it. I volunteered for a year, then had to stop doing that when I had to undergo cancer treatment.

  • Walter

    Hey Ardvark, Concerned Citizen and MJ Montana, listen up. In 1972, our emissary to the Middle East, Henry Kissinger, on orders from the White House, worked out a deal with the OPEC nations whereby we agreed to make them rich by buying our oil only from them and protecting them militarily, while they agreed to only sell their oil for USD. This was necessary in order to provide the industrialized nations with a reason to have dollars: They need oil. If not for that, these same nations would have long ago abandoned the dollar in favor of stronger currencies like the Euro, Yen, Australian Dollar, Pound, etc. It was this agreement that maintained the USD as the world’s reserve currency, not any intrinsic value of our dollar. It was this agreement that saved our collective butts. Otherwise, we would now be in the middle of an economic nightmare with a worthless currency and no way to fund our plethora of so-called entitlement programs like social security, medicare, and medicaid. It is worthy of note that the OPEC nations with the second and third largest oil reserves, Iraq and Iran respectively, refused to agree to this chicanery. So they were marked for invasion. When our main CIA puppet in the middle east, Saddam Hussein, began to sell his oil for Euros, several other OPEC nations threatened to follow suit. This constituted a huge crisis for us. In order to save the status of the USD as the world’s reserve currency, the Bush administration had to quickly manufacture some plausible pretext for an invasion of Iraq and the overthrow of our former ally Saddam. One of Bush’s main backers, a wealthy pseudo jewish real estate mogul named Larry Silverstein agreed to purchase a long term lease on the WTC, which he did just a month or so prior to 9-11-01, along with a multi-billion dollar insurance policy which covered terrorist incidents. Bush then had CIA personnel plant thermite charges all throughout the twin towers and building # 7. On the morning of 9-11-01, Bush and company flew remote controlled 757s into the tops of the twin towers. A few minutes later, the plastic explosives were detonated, bringing the twin towers down in a perfect controlled demolition. Mr. Silverstein inadvertently admitted on camera that he gave the go ahead to “pull it”, referring to building # 7. The words “pull it” are the jargon used by professional demolition crews to signal the moment the button is pushed to detonate the thermite charges. Voila! It must have been those wascally tewoists that did this, as Elmer Fudd would say. Specifically Islmaic extremeists in Afganistan and Iraq: the perfect pretext for an invasion. Iran is now selling their oil for Euros, hence the saber rattling against them even though they have not attacked anyone in over 300 years. By contrast, we have attacked and invaded 56 nations since the end of WWII. So now you know just how precarious our economic situation is. We are wiilling to murder millions of innocent people in the middle east and elsewhere, 1.3 million in Iraq so far, in order to save our otherwise worthless dollar. We of all people on the earth are the most shameful and pathetic.

    • DaveH

      Walter,
      First of all, I want to say I doubt it. But, if you really believe such things then why aren’t you working hard to decrease the size of Government? Only Big Government could possibly pull something like that and silence the necessary witnesses effectively.
      It amazes me that so many Liberals (don’t know if that includes you) believe that story, yet they want a Government takeover of our economy.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Thus the quandry, the liberal think tank. Sit on your butt and do nothing, complain about everything, always blame someone else, and let the government take care of everything. Then when they are expected to actually take some responsibility to do something, they act like your asking them to pull their fingernails out. What a bunch of bloody wankers they are.

        • Rod James

          DaveH & Beberoni,Walter has an opinion and he posted it.What are you two doing (other than posting on here) to save the country?

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            I am voting against the democrats, and that is the most important thing to getting this country on the right track, is to get rid of the liberals.

          • DaveH

            I have spent 30 years trying to convince people Big Government is the problem, not the solution. I have never voted for a Democrat, never will. And I rarely vote for a Republican, only if no Libertarians are running. Although Republicans are preferable to Democrats, they still consistently build Government, which gives the Democrats a better starting point in their goal to total domination whenever it is their turn in the Government.
            Vote Libertarian:
            http://libertarianparty.org/platform

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            Exercising my right to vote. Educating people on the dangers of liberalism, and on the immenent danger of expanding government and the problems it causes. In fact, when I went to 3 mission trips for Hurricane Katrina damage in Gulfport Mississippi, many of the poor black people I helped, had never heard a person speak out against the democrats and all the terrible things they do that bring people down and hold them down, to keep them dependant on the government, and actually, more than a few of them turned. So Im at least out there, getting my hands and feet dirty, sharing my talents and my heart with others, trying to make their lives better. So I have to ask, what have you done besides spout out your opinions? Please man, lead on, the ball is in your court.

          • Rod James

            Beberoni, As far as voting goes, it makes no difference which party is voted in as in the end they are all dancing to the tune of the lobbyists,banking industry etc. Little will change for the average American until a new system of commerce, politics and humanity is developed. Just as you and DaveH post here I try and point out alternative information to counter the standard points of view that have continued to lead the country down the same path of slow destruction (not refering to you two in particular). I don’t profess to have any talent (as you say you do) but I try to stimulate conversation and thought processes of the people I encounter.

    • George

      Walter,

      You had my attention right up to the point where you said Bush planned and executed the demise of the World Trade Center buildings. That’s a theory the libs have floated for a number of years and every credible source I’ve heard say that’s bunk. That’s where you lost me.

    • Dan2

      Way to go walter, well spoken. You can doubt whatever you want about Walters stories. But I suggest you do some fact finding first. There is plenty of information on 9-11- truth.
      I’m going to give you the bottom line.
      The New World Orders goal is to put all our troops in long term engagements oversea’s where they cannot protect the constitution that they swore to do. Have another 9-11 or other instance, like a suitcase nucler bom, or any number of scenario’s, to cause matial law.
      With our troops engaged and can’t leave, they will bring in U.N. (peacekeeping] troops who are not afraid, to fire on U.S. citizens, to bring halt to the rioting and looting that will ensue.
      Then will come the World Constitution which has already been drafted.
      I say, get informed, look this information up yourself. I doubted this 15 years ago and it is becoming more true everyday.

      • DaveH

        Dan2,
        Although I doubt the 9/11 theories, I do think what you say about using United Nations troops is very plausible. That was a technique that the USSR used (stationing troops far away from home so they would be less likely to feel sympathy for the locals).
        At any rate, the Libertarian Party is against the US being the World’s Policemen as were the founders of our nation. I agree, we should bring the troops home.

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      So Walter, are you one of those that deny the Holocaust also? You sound like one of those types. Ill pray for you man, because you are obviously dillusional. George W. Bush would never intentionally harm the United States pal. He sacrificed his own popularity to do what was needed to be done to make us safe, and I for one appreciate it. You may not like the way he talked or the way he went about certain things, but the man loves the United States of America, and you sir sound like some down and out communist with your accusations. You are way off base, and way out of line sir.

  • DaveH

    People my age can still remember the Jimmy Carter years. Home prices growing about 20% a year, gasoline prices growing about 20% a year, a stated inflation rate of 15% a year, and a bad economy. And this guy, Obama, is making Jimmy Carter look good.

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      Jimmy Carter. Tell me Dave, your a smart guy. How did it come about that for one, how did the democrats ever decide to pick him to run, and two, how did he ever get elected? He wasnt eloquent, he wasnt good looking, he didnt have much of a record, and he offered nothing? How did this happen? Of course, today I find myself asking the same thing about Obama, except with the aid of his teleprompter he speaks well, and he isnt a bad looking chap. Other than that though, there is no substance there. I dont see how this happens.

      • DaveH

        Jimmy Carter was (still is) a true believer. I think that was his appeal to the Hopers and Dreamers.

  • MGK

    Walter,

    That must have been some potent weed you found. Oy!

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      Id have to agree. Walter’s stuff must be top shelf. Must have gotten it from Willy.

      • Rod James

        MGK & Beberoni, There are a lot of straight,well respected professional people (architechs&proffessors for 911 truth)that believe what Walter is saying.Like you said Dave only the government could get away with this unbeleivable horror.

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          It just rediculous to even think that Bush/Cheny wanted to blow up the trade centers and kill a couple thousand of our people, for what? For what? If they wanted a war like you liberals suggest, they wouldnt have to do something like that. And also, I know George Bush isnt capable of doing something like that. How do I know it? I just do. You libs saying this, is like me saying, off the cuff, that I know Alex Rodriguez is behind the 9-11 thing. Pretty stupid and careless of me, dont you think? No wait, I think Hillary Clinton set it all up. See how stupid it sounds. The liberal hatred of this good man has no ends, and its pathetic. Yes, I agree we are entitled to have our own opinions, but when opinions become hate biased baloney, Ive got to draw the line. Those are not opinions, but hate driven false hoods. Thats all those are. To suggest that anyone in our government arranged this to happen is just irresponsible and wrong.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            Also, go to http://www.debunking911.com/WTC7.htm and find out some of the investigation of this building, and maybe the truth will hit you. You conspiracy theorists take the cake. Its always someone elses fault. Yeah, lets give the terrorists a free pass. They didnt blow nothing up, Bush-Cheny-Haliburton did it. Wankers.

          • DaveH

            While my jury is out, I do think it is possible. I thought from the beginning that it was mighty strange that the towers after 2 asymmetric strikes would come straight down like in a planned demolition.
            And our Government has gotten us into several wars with excuses that later turned out to be invalid, the Lusitania event being the most dramatic. I think absolute power breeds absolute corruption.
            Look at war in general. What is it? It’s killing people in mass without benefit of trial. Many of those people are known to be innocent. Why is that Okay?
            Is it murder when 1 or 3 or 6 people get together and kill a person without a trial? Then why is it not murder just because 100 million people vote for it? The same goes for the theft perpetrated by the Government.
            And please spare me from the usual excuse that it is “War”, which by the way is rarely declared these days when our military goes on their escapades.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            To Dave: The towers came straight down, basically because of a poor design, without adequate cross members, and a hollow center. Once the plane penetrated the buildings, and all the jet fuel burned at an extreme high temperature, the steel above it and on those immediate floors melted, and when that weight came down, each floor gave way as this massive weight continued to slam down floor after floor. I fully believe that these terrorists researched where to hit these buildings, and that is why they flew fully fueled jets into them. Ive seen more than one show on this, and they computer animated things like they do these days, and it pretty much made very logical, practical, and common sense to me why they collapsed like they did.
            I also, as rotten as some of our government officials and politicians are, I do not believe any of them would blow up our own buildings like that, no way, no how. I cant stand Obama and Clinton, and I wouldnt believe they would do something like this either. Plunder the money, yes they would, but this stuff, no way. And George W. Bush? No way, just no way. The dude is American as apple pie. He made mistakes, had bad intelligence, was pushed by the democrats to go to war so they could attack him, but no way he would ever participate in something like this. Sorry, I refuse to believe that with all my heart.

  • Raggs

    Unemployment will soon go through the roof when this masive government control over health care take’s it’s root’s. Employer’s will not be able to afford to keep thier employee’s.. Not to mention new job creation will not exist either.. The US will become a welfare state moreso than it is now. Hyperinflation is on it’s way due to the masive spending and printing of weak dollar..
    I don’t understand how some of you obama follower’s can’t see the truth and say thing’s are getting better.

    • DaveH

      Raggs,
      They are too busy feeding at the trough to look around at what’s happening.

      • David Hall

        Oh! Mr. DaveH, how right you are, but when the dollar, says bye, bye,
        their trough will go dry. They’ll start looking around then, their
        Big Government trough will soon dry-up and it’s been a long time coming. Like, I’ve wrote before, I don’t mine growing down with the ship, as long as it’s filled up with them left-wing idiots that voted
        for their Big Government Savior.

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      Wait until they rescind the Bush tax cuts this year, as they said they are going to do. Small business’s will have to lay of millions nationwide to pay the taxes. Why do the dems think taxation is the solution, when over government taxation is one of the biggest problems our economy has. The taxation of business is a killer, and the taxation of its citizens is a killer. They just dont get it, and for the life of me, I dont understand why they cant see the nose in front of their face.

      • DaveH

        They can see it. They’re just hooked on OPM.

  • cr747

    Well did you all see the news this morning, Democrats Sen. Chris Dodd, from Conn., Democrat Sen. Byron Dorgan from N. Dakota, and, Democrat Gov. Bill Ritter throwing in the hat. Not going to run in next election. Seems as though some of the Washington bunch know they have made a boo-boo by listen to Obama. Also a couple from Illinois not going to run. They said that from the welcomes they got when they went home for Christmas was all negative. (Bless their hearts) They will soon learn. Some Republicans doing the same thing to!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • Raggs

      Yesssss! I seen that and love it!!!!

      I wonder if they can hear us now??????

    • American Citizen

      I have to laugh when they give their reasons for not running again. They can’t say they see the handwriting on the wall.

    • George

      My theory is that the big money backers of the Democratic Party decided that these guys need to throw in the towel now, so they did. They may have even been paid-off to do this. I don’t know, but wouldn’t be surprised. At any rate, I think it became obvious to these backers that these particular representatives probably couldn’t pull off another re-election due to unfavorable popular opinion of the health care reform bill. I think the strategy is to let these guys be the “bad” guys that were guilty of doing all the things the public didn’t want, while their Democratic nominee replacements will be marketed as being much more conservative and responsive to their constituencies. Timing is such that the new guys will have time to build name recognition and market themselves as being different and better than their old predecessors. Call me crazy, but these guys are really slick. I’ve seen them do and say a lot of things to get elected which I think most of us believe is out of bounds. Soros and team has paid for an extensive political machine behind the Democrats to get what they want.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        They have to do what George Soros wants. He has allready paid them, now they have to pay him back. Its scary as to what kind of anti American crap they are going to pull for the payback, but its coming. Oh yeah, its coming. The libs dont care. Its all about the benjamins to them.

        • George

          I figure Soros has them all on the hook, including Obama. I don’t see anyway that Obama could have gotten where he is without the money and organization that the big money guys provided him.

      • W Grobman

        Yeah, some of the dems are throwing in the towel. They will be taken care of on the other side (private sector) or so they have been promised I am sure. The Federal Reserve (a private corp) elite are pulling the strings on this. Dems will be rewarded for “falling on their swords” for the purposes of pushing through this economy killing legislation. The stars have all lined up for them and they know this is the go time. Our fiat money system is fixing to collapse. All I can tell you all is to get some farm land and buy butt loads of gold. Good luck and God bless.

    • El Chichon’

      cr747,
      A great big orgasmic AHHHHHHHHHhhhhhhhhh!!! I’m so excited that I’m getting the tingling feeling running up my leg like one of the sleezy mainstream media communist reporters said about himself when Osamabama was elected!!! Remember? The cleansing has begun!!!! Now lets just hope the majority of the voters can stay focused and not let the sleezy communist mainstream media do anymore brainwashing over the T.V. I hope the FOX network is paying close attention as well. The voters are tired of the lies and deception of the communist rats on T.V. I still think that we are in a state of deception though. Sometimes I think that all of these troubles forced on us by this communist administration is a decoy to keep our minds and our eyes away from what is going on behind our backs. People need to look below the surface into the very quick of their central nervous system. There lies the true evil of what these hidden agenda’s and people of the secret one world government who want to rule the world with an iron rod and an iron fist. I think comrade Christopher Dodd and those who are voluntarily stepping down for retirement have just fufilled their missions of destruction of the United States that they were assigned years ago. I think that its “mission completed” for the mainstream media also. I hope I am wrong, but there is some food for thought. I might sound like a nut job to some of the people that read this thread, but its because of all of the kaos in the past two or three years is why I think this way. Don’t let your guard down and ALWAYS be prepared for the unthinkable. I think this sort of evil is out there. A person never knows.

      • DaveH

        Those people behind the scenes that are reputedly pulling the strings would be powerless if the Government wasn’t so dam big.
        The only viable solution is to elect only candidates that promise to cut back the size of Government. And I am talking proactive. If you’re stuck on Republicans then call the RNC and let them know if they can’t field a Government Downsizing Candidate you are going to find another party to vote for. We can’t just wait for them to nominate the Candidates of their choice or there won’t be a real choice.
        I prefer to Vote Libertarian.

  • http://victorbarney@embarqmail.com Victor L Barney

    I’ve been watching Glenn Beck this week and he is close to the truth! We are intentionally being economically destroyed to bring in the Marxist economic system! It’s all treason, but no one can stop it because they have taken over the government! The Marxist Democrats control the HOUSE, SENATE, JUDICIARY, and WHITE HOUSE! This is what Glenn does not understand, they have the POWER to be unopposed by anybody to do anything that they want, even if it were unconstitutional!
    I see that a lot of Democrats, such as Dodd, are not suppose to run again, but even that can turn around in a heartbeat, I’m sure!

    • DaveH

      Victor,
      Don’t be so negative. If the citizens wake up to reality, it won’t matter how much of the government Democrats control. And I think they are awakening more and more. Most people are basically sheep who will follow the trend if they see an increasing amount of their friends waking up to the evils of Big Government.

      • Raggs

        Dave…

        Yes indeed “sheeple” led blindly by the government.
        And I think your correct about many people “sheeple” waking up.
        We just need to hope that enough will awaken and block any hopes that the Dem’s may have now and in the furture 2012. I get a lot of chatter through e-mails of folk’s I know and believe me ALL of them are fed up with obama and the democratic party and some of the “sheeple” actually voted for them.. Pitty they did but that’s another story. The problem is how much damage to this country are they going to do prior to thier departure?

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          I wonder if they will try to steal the furniture when they leave like the Clintons did? Shows the class of them, doesnt it?

  • Raggs
  • http://personalliberty.com True Patriot

    Dan2 and Dave H., Where the enlisted American Troops are located is of little consequence. The number of former enlisted troops and the number of well trained and well equipped Americans in this Country far out number those! The main reason no one wants to openly engage this Country is because they realize this fact! Everyone in my family, extended family and neighborhood owns a gun or guns and is proficient with them! Besides our government knows that it would be stupid to order UN Troops to fire on it’s own civilians! They also know that civil war would quickly ensue! And who isn’t already mad enough to fight at the drop of a hat? The term, “just give me a reason”, is out the window at this point there are millions or should I say Trillions of reasons out there already! I can’t imagine that there are to many Polly-Annic people left out there that are chanting: “All this will just go away and there will be peace and happiness everywhere”.

    • Raggs

      TP.
      That may be a two way street.

      And for me judging the way or should I say seeing the way the government is wanting complete control has to make one wonder. Let’s take a look at the health care… Just what if when it passes and become’s a law ACORN determines gun ownership is a health hazard.
      Surely this topic will come to the top. Well I’m sure of it anyway, beside’s they are already waging war on soda’s. cigarettes, beer and several other thing’s… Let’s see what the fine’s are for being a drinker or smoker… A process of elimination if not in compliance. You may be missing the big picture no offence.. but they alway’s use one thing to gain yet another backdoor approach to what they want.
      OSHA recently published a complaint that gun owner’s you brougth firearm’s unto the premises of work via automobiles were a safety hazard, this was laugthed at but nonetheless it was a vehicle ( no punn ) of authority to control your rigth’s. This administration will in no doubt do the same. You however are correct that as long as we are armed against tyranny we can defeat it. And correct again on the anger building that is caused by this administration and thier unwillingness to listen. OUST them all this will not solve all of the problem’s but it is a start.
      My point here is that obama will not stop at anything to gain his realm be it disarming the public so it is possible to ensue a marshal law state with any excuse.

    • Little Timmy

      I’m with you True P,
      Powder blue helmets make for a good target. Especially in my back yard.

    • El Chichon’

      True Patriot,
      It is getting harder and harder to get bullets, gun powder, and primers. If they can’t force us to get rid of our guns, then they will make it impossible to get the items needed in order to fire our guns. Prices are out of sight. Maybe look to Mexico for supplies? All that would be needed is a “coyote’” to run guns and ammo across the border. With the way our borders are controlled, a coyote’ shouldn’t be hard to find if times get any tougher on gun owners. The communist “one world government” rats have already started working their evil. Any ideas???

      • DaveH

        Stock up.

        • Raggs

          No problem’s with locked and loaded here.

    • DaveH

      I just got this link in an Email:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nf1OgV449g

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      That is why Japan attacked Pearl Harbor, not the mainland. Their emporer said it would have been suicide because our population is armed. They got that right.

  • Raggs

    May I be so boldly to suggest anyone within doubt look up what obama gave to interpool.

    If I’m not mistaken he has given them the power over our FBI and CIA.
    And they will not have any obligations to follow our law’s or constitution.

    • http://Don'thaveone Sally

      I must have read that Executive Order three times and then went to what was taken out and it seems to me that the only thing they were giving to Interpol was diplomatic immunity. I didn’t see anything about control of anything however, as I said it was very hard to understand and for what reason it was given in the first place. If someone can fill me in I greatly would appreciate same.

  • American Citizen

    A note to all Dems and liberals, “The road to hell is paved with good intentions.”

    • Raggs

      Intentions..yup but not good ones..

    • Larry Hill

      citizen, I used to think I belonged to a political party, but now i am having much dificulty picking out a patriot from either side of the aisle. The things that have been done to this country for one (explained) reason or the other is really disgusting and scary. As Jay Leno said when Iraq was trying to develop a constitution, Why don’t we give them ours because it has worked well for many years and we’re not using it anymore.

      • American Citizen

        That’s why I became an Independent. It’s getting harder to know who to vote for. Unless the Rep;ublicans get back to their roots, I may end up voting Libertarian. I’m biding my time and listening until the election when I’ll make the decision.

        • Larry Hill

          citizen, yeah and in the mean time vote out all incumbents and give them only two terms one in congress and one in prison.

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      The road the dems travel is paid by Soros.

  • http://personalliberty.com True Patriot

    El’Chicon, If you have a Walmart near you, you have all the access to ammo that you need, they still have plenty of 9mm ammo at the Walmart near me and the price is: $10.00 for 50 rounds! Ask the man that works in sporting goods area he will tell you what day they come in. There are no ammo shortages there is just a lot of hoarding going on right now and if the gov. is paying attention they should be scratching their heads and wondering why! The answer is that historically when man senses danger he prepares himself! Thomas Jefferson said 200 years ago: “The natural tendency is for Government to get larger and for Liberties to be sacrificed.” Well guess what,…..evidently Thomas was clearvoyant! But he wasn’t just spouting sentences to the wind, he was saying these things and writing them down as a warning to future generations so that they might prepare themselves for what was to come! Well guess what boys and girls you can only sit on your hands so long before they become to numb to be any good to you! What do you want future generations to say about this one?……Boy, they really knew how to get walked on by their own government? Or how about; Wow, they really marched off to the detention Camps in straight lines! Or how about; “Good thing their forefathers came here to escape tyranny?” The early flags of this country were coiled Rattle snakes with the saying: “Don’t Tread On Me” And the coiled Rattle Snake stood for people who were always ready and not looking for trouble but ready if trouble came! The other attribute is that the Snake never blinks it is constantly vigilant! I read some peoples blogs on this sight and their Flags might as well read: “I know you’re going to walk on me so please wipe your feet first.”

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      Come to Indiana. Plenty of ammo here. Our gun shops have whatever you want, and so does Walmart.

    • DaveH

      Patriot,
      Jefferson wasn’t Clairvoyant; he was just experienced and knowledgeable. It is just human tendency to build any organization of people as large as possible.

    • El Chichon’

      True Patriot,
      Thanks, I will keep stocking, but for the people that do their own reloading, its getting really expensive and in some cases, hard to find. They claim that the reason for the primer shortage is because the ammo manufacturers are using all of the primers for military ammo and the public comes second. I agree that the military should come first, but something sounds screwy to me. I can’t understand how there could be a primer shortage, we’re not in a world war with shooting fronts all over the globe.
      I totally agree, BE PREPARED, if something is not done soon the inevitable is going to happen. I hope not, but they are about to push the “true” American patriots beyond their tolerance level. They keep gnawing at our rights and our freedom trying to eat through the heart of America piece by piece without waking anyone up. Look how the socialists snuck up on gun rights in the U.K. I think that started way back around the 1920′s or so with a little law here and a little regulation there up through the 1990′s or 2000 when they finally achieved their goal of having all guns banned. This is exactly what has been happening right here in America for decades. The only reason it hasn’t actually happened is because we have that one precious document that has been protecting us for the past 239 years. You are absolutely right, BE EXTREMELY VIGILANT.

      • cr747

        El Chichon, you sound like my kind of person, continue to stock up because you never know. Also you said in one of your other comments to never turn your back. That’s true. I pack concealed or open 24/7 and am constantly looking over my shoulder when out by myself here on the ranch, but most of the time there is always 4 or 5 armed men or women along with me.

  • Eschat

    Walter, you certainly have been hearing a lot of the same things that I have heard for the last 4 years. Oh, I was a doubter too, after all I spent over 20 years in our military and I have always loved our country. I would go back again if needed, even though I retired in 1985. I thought all those crazy conspiracy idiots were way out there; that is until I was questioned about a few things that left me embarrassed about my own answers. I could not explain how that 3rd building came down, where all the bodies went on all 4 planes, where all the black boxes went from all 4 planes, all the wreckage from all 4 planes. We all know they reassemble the wreckage and collect the black boxes. I was stationed at Andrews AFB just a few miles from the Pentagon, and I knew all about DC being a “No Fly” zone and that the fighters were right there on Andrews (only a few seconds flight time to DC)on 24 hour duty status ready to respond to any intruders, but Oy, they just accidentally were deployed that morning – just a couple insignificant odds and ends there.

    If anyone is not convinced I am a total idiot, think about this: that plane that hit down in PA, just may have been headed to that 3rd building. Hmmmm. Guess I will just take my expanded background investigation that lead to a Top Secret Cryptographic Security Clearance, all my years assigned to the National Security Agency and just blindly believe everything I see and hear on the news. Sorry to be such a fool, please try to find it in your heart to forgive this stupid old Vet.

    • Larry Hill

      ESCHAT, I too am a veteran and the first time I heard about the planes and all the stuff you just said I was mad as hell. Then I saw a film called where’s the boeing. It was footage on the plane supposedly hitting the pentagon. There was a 16 foot hole and no plane wreckage on the outside of the building as it should have been. There was no footage of the actual contact with the pentagon. All their cameras must have picked up more than a fire from 6 blocks away. Where’s the proof that a plane even hit the pentagon. My question now is these terrorist on the news now everyday and there is nothing but the same picture over and over with no live pictures of the guy. I must say I have become very suspicious of everything they tell me anymore.

      • Eschat

        The name, Larry Hill rings a loud bell, you would not happen to be Larry S. Hill, my first AF supervisor?

        I am kinda off the subject of the article, so let me say that Mr. Myers could be right.

        Have been storing up some silver coins, and silver bullion, and some gold in case the dollar is devalued or replaced. Next on my list is some survival supplies like the 30 year freeze dried food, seeds, and water purification equipment. Who truly knows what is headed our way. If things do get back to normal all those items can still be used for money or food. Nothing will be wasted. Oh, perhaps some of the money I spent will not be invested and I will not draw interest or gain value. But if it is not in the market it will not totally disappear either. It never hurts to be prepared.

        Teresa and Linda had some interesting comments. In fact most of the comments are very good.

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      From what I gathered from this, that third building, maybe it was building 7, was in danger of collapsing, so they brought it down for safety purposes.

    • American Citizen

      Oh, for crying out loud, where’s your use of reason? The heat was so intense it melted the steel in those buildings. The bodies would have been incinerated. The third building was brought down intentionally because it was structurally unsafe. Call it collateral damage. If those people did not die in those crashes, where are those people? Get real.

    • American Citizen

      And it just may be that the 3rd plane that went down in Pennsylvania was headed for the White House.

  • MadMax

    This situation is not the normal go to treasuries when stocks go down or visa versa. Our country is being deliberately destroyed. People who believe in freedom, liberty and justice for all have to be eliminated for the good of the few, who think they own the world and its population. Please wake up people. Google for information on subjects you feel are “out there”. Your media is controlled and you have been hypnotized by propaganda. We need all the citizens in the United States to make a stand, not only for our sake. The world’s peoples are waiting for us to save them. We are their only hope.
    What has happened to the America we once knew?

    • James

      MadMax, basically I agree. You said we need to make a stand, could you be more specific? I’m sure you didn’t mean make an end table.

    • DaveH

      First we have to wake them from their Apathetic Stupors. Government should be cut to about a third the size it is now. It should exist almost exclusively to protect people from Force by Others, and little else.
      Speaking of Government, here we are in the middle of a very bad recession which I believe firmly was caused by Government meddling in the marketplace. And what is Big Government doing? They are giving their members raises! Unbelievable.
      http://www.usatoday.com/printedition/news/20091211/1afedpay11_st.art.htm?loc=interstitialskip

      • George

        Don’t forget the lavish parties, vacations, and date nights, not to mention the closed door meetings and negotiations as they craft a totally new health care system for the American people, but excludes themselves and their families….. Totally disgusting.

  • LeRoy Canoe

    Oh come on Myers! C.V. wouldn’t have written drivel like this. First, 2010 will see the dollar strengthen as Japan weakens the Yen. Second, you don’t even mention the S&P, which will continue to slowly lose air. Third, I’m just too disgusted to go on…

    • George

      LeRoy,

      I could be more optimistic about the economy, even in the wake of some of the nonsensical things the Democrats are doing (or planning to do) right now, if it weren’t for the tremendous amount of borrowing the Fed is doing on our behalf. I’m afraid we won’t be able to sustain these levels of debt without over-taxing the productive sector, which will severely slow down the economy. I’ve been led to believe that we’re already having trouble selling our debt to foreign countries, so this could be a real sign of trouble down the road.

      If we could just take the excessive borrowing, taxing, and printing money out of the equation, then I’d be much more inclined to agree with you….

  • MadMax

    Google this article “57 Trillion Reasons To Murder l00 Million Americans”. The Corporation (Govt) is not only going to allow another stock market crash, but also a currency crash. We will be milked dry before their genocidal plans for us begin. Microchipping is included in Healthcare bill. Subtitle C-11 Sec. 2521 National Medical Device Registry. “each device that-(A) is or has been used in or on a patient; and (B) is a class III device; or a class II device that is implantable. They can kill us at will with these.
    Tennessee is asking 49 other states to combat unconstitutional federal legislation and assert state rights. Contact your local and state politicians to stop the tyranny of the District of Columbia (not part of the United States) Corporation. To James, sorry for the typo, it was late.

  • http://personalliberty.com True Patriot

    Everyone likes a bottom line so here it is: Your Govt. does’nt give a hoot about your well-being, they have had the Smash and Grab mentality for this country for the last 35 years, No one is looking at long-term forecasts anymore because there are none, anyone who isn’t a muti-millionaire or billionaire is not on the list for suvival, the rest of the world is waiting for the U.S. to keep their end of the bargain and the bargain was to take down the U.S. to usher in the NWO, you’re names are all on lists now that break you into 3 different groups: Red, Blue and Yellow, we’re all in the last stages of what is known as the End Game. Fema Camps are all over the U.S. along with millions of plastic coffins. 9/11 was nothing more than a false flag operation to get into Iraq where Sadam Hussein was threatening to no longer use dollars for oil so he had to be eliminated. There is no more United States its the North American Union, George Bush signed that in before he left office. If you want to know more about any of these things you can find 100s of hits on You Tube.

  • MadMax

    To add to True Patriot’s info, look up Agenda 21 signed by the USA in
    Rio in ’92. Look at the map of America. Notice the whole country is
    unpopulated. Only a few areas around the Great Lakes and coasal areas
    will be allowed for people. They plan enslavement and stacking and
    packing us in these centers. No personal property, farms, etc allowed. Now, how big of a population does the map project? Even
    though it sounds insane to normal people, psychopaths that populate
    the elite and politics enjoy destruction and suffering. You see,
    the Illuminati is running this game. They are satanists. They go to
    Christian churches by day to deceive you, and by night and out of sight-you don’t want to know what goes on.

    • coal miner

      MadMax,

      The Luminati,they say has been around for years,every since ancient Egypt.Its not Christian or Satanic. It is a worse evil.The world leaders or Philosophers supposely belong to it.Here are the names.

      Belong to it

      l:Karl Marx
      2:Plato
      3:Adolh Hitler
      4:Joeseph Stalin
      5:The Bush Family
      6:Hilary Clinton(her family)
      :Franklin Roosevelt and Teddy Roosevelt
      :Mao
      7:Chou Enlai
      8:The kennedy family
      9:Fried Nietzscche
      10:The leaders of the French revolutions
      11:All the leaders of Israel
      12:The Founding Fathers
      13:The Rothschilds
      14:The Caesars
      15:Saint Paul (founder of Christianity)
      16:The Pharaohs of Egypt
      17:The founders of all political parties
      18: founders of all religions( with the exception of Eastern religions and Islam)
      19: The Herods of ancient Israel
      20:The free Masons? The jury is still out on this one
      21: Dick Cheney
      22: Obama
      23:Calvin Coolidge
      24:Al Gore
      25:Joe Liberman
      26:Nancy Davis(Reagan)
      27: Colin Powell
      28: The Buckely family
      29: Thomas A.Edison (All blood related)
      30:Dwight D.Eisenhower

      These are opinions, not mine:

      Here are some people that don’t belong to it:

      1:Bill Clinton
      2:Lyndon Johnson
      3:Richard M.Nixion
      4:Herbert Hoover
      5:Abe lincoln
      6:Muhammed or his wife (founder of Islam)
      7:Harry S.Truman
      8:Jack London the writer
      9:Ronald Reagan
      10:Eugene Victor Debs and Norman Thomas(socialist leaders)
      11:A.Nobel (the inventor of Dynamite)
      12: Nikola Tesla (Inventor of DC electric motors)

      There are more:
      It would take foever to name all these people:

      • El Chichon’

        Coal Miner,
        How do you know if this stuff is true? Where is the proof? Who wrote this stuff? Can you trust this person or persons to tell the truth? No one knows. It was probably conjured up by someone attempting to sway peoples thoughts (brain washing)in order to destroy a government or political party. Sounds like something the media would attempt. This is not to say that this isn’t true because I honestly don’t know myself, but what I’m telling you is you can’t trust anyone… I’d like to know if these things are the truth as this the first that I have heard of such. Is this about the same as or is it the Bilderbergs, tri-laterals, etc? It wouldn’t surprise me any. Thanks.

        • MadMax

          El Chicon,
          The Illuminati are the big fish in this NWO problem. Google for the picture of the Illuminati pyramid of order. Note Bilderburgers, Trilateral Commission, Council on Foreign Relations, Club of Rome, Freemasons, Universities, Corporations, etc. It may look like we’re sunk, as you discover the tons of info out there. Coal Miner is very well informed and is giving you the chance to investigate this dangerous situation. I have studied this for about a year and and half. I was shocked, depressed, and saddened by the info. But we have a responsibility to tell our fellow Americans and do what we can to stop them (nonviolently is my hope).

          • coal miner

            MadMax,

            There was a guy that was on this thread who encourage everyone to order a book that was written by a Bible scholar.I have being reading it.I got it two days ago.It was written by lloyd M.Graham(Deceptions and Myths Of The Bible)According to Graham the bible is not a religious book,but based on ancients wisdoms and sciences.Here are some of these wisdoms he is talking about.

            1:Adam and Eve:naked atoms
            2:Noah creater and destroyer(waterman)
            3:Joshua son of Nun(translation:son of murderous water)
            4:Jona( water man)
            5:John the baptist waterman
            6:The battle of Jericho( destruction of matter;not all matter was destroyed,the whore was spared)
            7:Sun myths: Samson,Soloman,David and Samual
            8:Delilah door way to darkness
            9:Lilith Adan first wife Debilitating one
            10:Satan: matter
            11:Abraham borrow from Brahma, meaning creator
            12: Sarah Abraham’s wife meaning fertile earth(half sister)
            13: Christ(sun myth)

            :The Bible is a very sophisticated and complex book and steep in in the occult numbers and symbols; here are the numbers

            :They are
            :3
            :4
            :7
            :12
            :6
            :40
            :70
            :Note the late Albert Einstein said he got his theories from the Koran and the Bible(the Hidden meanings)Check it out

            :Read the book by LLoyd M.Graham(deception and myths of the bible)

            :You will be convince( That the bible was written by the ancient men of wisdom known as the Brotherhood or Blood line) Fact or fiction.You have to decide for yourself.Have a good day

        • American Citizen

          It’s news to me that St. Paul was the founder of Christianity. So how can you trust any of the rest of it?

          • American Citizen

            Coal Miner, that book is a fabrication just as is the Koran. Not inspired by the Holy Spirit. The numbers had specific meanings for the Jews. Good meanings, not bad.

  • MadMax

    coal miner,

    You’re right, they are into numerology, mysticism, satanism, etc. Also, didn’t Ronald Reagan go to the Bohemian Grove with the Bushes?
    Check out article “Australian Adept Unveiled World Santanic Control” on fourwindsl0.com. He also lists Reagan. The Illuminati infiltrated the Masons at “Installed Masters” level.

    • coal miner

      MadMax,

      Ron Reagan never did belong to it,but his wife Nancy is a member.Bill Clinton also was not a member,again Hillary Clinton,she is a distance cousin to the Bush family.The founders of Libertarian Party,The Socialist Party,The American Communist Party,Republican and the Democtratic Parties were members. The one I fail to mention was Leon Trotsky,dispite all claims was not a member.It used to be,according to some sources called the blood line.
      It dates back long before ancient history.The writers of the bible both old and new testaments had ties with the blood line.All modern religions are borrow from ancient wisdoms and had also ties to the blood line.They claim to be builders of the ancient and modern civilizations.They said they were followers of Set,Set was on the same level of Satan.He was also the brother of Horus, the Egyptian savior.One story said Horus killed Set,revenge for killing his father,another Set brutally killed his brother Horus. If the Illuminati does exist or doesn’t. I simply don’t know. I always keep a open mind.Who knows? You may be right.

      • El Chichon’

        Coal Miner,
        Type in “the Illuminati” on google and then go to Wikipedia. It says that it was founded on May 1, 1776 by Adam someone from Barvaria so therefore it does not go back to ancient times and has nothing to do with the Holy Bible. Be careful, this kind of stuff is how people are led astray and into the clutches of cults and false teachers. It is spiritually poisonous to those who don’t know the word of God. It is just as I suspected, conjured up or crafted by someone in an attempt to discredit a national government or political party to make things go the way they want it. Just like the mainstream media and the socialist democrats and communist democrats along with a minute few of the republicans who are attempting to bulls#*% the people into thinking like them. It is nothing but an overthrow conspiracy.

        • coal miner

          El Chichon,

          Have you heard of the Brotherhood?It was run by a Greek mathmatician by the name of Pythagoras He wasn’t the founder,because its been around thousands years before him.Under him they came up with advance discoveries,that we are just now learning.for instance the earth orbit the sun.We have Pythagorean Theorem that used in electronics;all branches of mathematics and symbols,such as the pentegram and other equations.The Brotherhood after Pythagoras met his violent death went underground,his followers were Eratosthenes who work out the circumference of the earth,Aristarchus who work the correct distance from the earth to the sun and moon .And there where others, too numerous to print. Later on it change its name, was called the bloodline and in the middle ages a well known scientist name Leonardo da Vinci was also a member.200 years later it was renamed .Now known as the Illuminati.

          Like I said I don’t know if it true or not.Keep a open mine.

          • El Chichon’

            Coal Miner,
            That is very interesting. I think I might research this a little more. I appreciate your reply. It is half of the battle just to know what your enemy’s strategy is and what he is up to. Thanks for the info.

      • MadMax

        I found an article you will enjoy “Domes, Obelisks, and Magic Squares, Oh My!” posted 1-12-10 on fourwindsl0.com. It confirms your information. I have previously read plenty of detailed articles, but due to my age, can’t retain all the facts. Not all Illuminati are Satanists, but a large number are and many of them have just incorporated this belief with others. Basically they are insanely evil psychopaths. Another great article is “Pawns in the Game” also at fourwindsl0.com. Thanks for your efforts to educate our sleeping fellow Americans.

        • coal miner

          Mad Max,

          I am still reading Deceptions and Myths of the Bible.Here are the things I learned so far:

          1:Moses, life taken out of water(evolution)
          2:Moses’ genetic codes (ten commandments;borrow from Hammurabi’s code)
          3:Moses’ Name is not Hebrew,It is old Egyptian,mearns life and water
          4:Abraham creator (impregnater)(former name,Abram-the impotent one)
          5:Abraham’s wife Sari(infertile earth)(Sarah( fertile earth) half sister
          6:Abraham’s Sphere(hole in space;blackhole)
          7:Satan matter; angel that keeps changes into angel of light; Translation(matter into energy)
          8:Mary-Mia;Jesus’s mother womb in space
          9: Judas accoring to the older versions(he may be Jesus’s brother:cain and Abel story-Joeseph’s brothers)
          10: Crucifixion all creators die a violent death(Jesus wasn’t the only one)
          11: Tower of Babel; Building blocks of nature

          There are a lot more too numerous to print

          The The Ancient old Men Of Wisdom;were very advance into astronomy,mathematics,surgery and science.Here lately they discover they had knowlege of Binaries,Hexadecimals,octals and other mathematical sciences. I like to know where did the brotherhood get this knowledge?
          This branch of mathematics is used only in computer sciences and electronics. John Divine and Saint Paul (the founder of Christianity) were members of the Blood line:The other Hebrew characters didn’t exist,they represented mathematical symbols and codes

          Whether this organzation exist or not:I don’t know
          How did these ancient sages knew this advance sciences?

          Order Lloyd M.Gramham’s book (Deception and Myths of the Bible)

          • El Chichon’

            Coal Miner,
            What cult are you in? Satanic? That kind of stuff is really scary when you try to pervert the true word of God. Be careful, you could end up in hell where the flame is never quinched and the worms never die and have eternal seperation from God. Are you willing to take that chance? I’m not. People should fear God. Only a fool says there is no God. I don’t understand what manner of a person you really are. How do I know if it is the true word of God? That is why you call it “faith”. The Holy Bible was written by men under the devine inspiration of God. In other words, God told them what to write. There has never been “any” man wise enough to write a book like that. Those who profess themselves to be wise shall be made fools. Try salvation, thats real.

  • Eschat

    Hi American Citizen & Beberoni.

    I guess you are referring to my comments. You are probably happy with your thoughts and God bless you. Please stay happy with them. As for Bldg 7, it was very convenient for them to prepare that unsafe building to be pulled down. Interestingly it usually takes a week or so to prepare a building for that. Oh, you forgot to mention exactly what was so unsafe about that building, perhaps it just got scared after seeing those other two building melt from a kerosene fire that cannot burn hot enough to melt steel. But what do I know, heck I used kerosene heaters in the winter and they all melted, too.

    Isn’t it great that the fire was so hot that it actually melted the concrete along with the metal, melted it so hot that it turned into white powder smoke. Yeah, guess that happens a lot. In fact I am such a fool to think an airplane fire can’t melt a steel framed building and have it free fall in less then 15 seconds, yeah that happens a lot, too.

    As for the plane that went down in Pa, guess I figured since it neared Cleveland from the east and suddenly turned on a direct path eastward toward NYC, it must have been heading to hit that 3rd building that melted instead of south to DC, silly me, sorry.

    Oh, the bodies, yes that is exactly my point, where are they unless they melted too, forgot that happens a lot.

    And the black boxes, guess they melted too, yeah that happens a lot, too. Sorry.

    Please forgive me and yes, I will try to get real. Perhaps I am just a 60+ year old fool. But a disabled 20+ year Vet, so don’t get mad at me, please, and stay happy in your knowledge of what really happened. Thank you so much for setting my dumb a** straight.

    • American Citizen

      Those bodies would have been cremated. People do have that done when they die, don’t they? They say that the fuel in those planes would have made a fire hot enough to melt steel. How do we know those terrorists didn’t also have bombs on those planes? Has anybody asked that question? They planned everything to a T so that could have been possible. I’m not an expert on bringing buildings down, but the third building wasn’t brought down right away. It was only brought down after being inspected for structural damage as were all the buildings around the Towers.

  • coal miner

    El Chichon,

    What kind of jack ass remark is that? I am not into any occult or Satan worship. I am agnostic that means I don’t know if God exist or not.Satan is a myth,nothing more.Brain donor stop listening to these holy roler preachers.Ask yourself how come they are driving fancy cars and living in nice homes. You watch too many hick horror movies.Lloyd M. Graham is a world renoun Bibical scholar.If you are too ignorant and are afraid of the great truths and knowledge don’t ask. Have a great day!

    • El Chichon’

      Coal Miner,
      I am sorry. I did not intend to offend you. If this sort of thing offends you then you should be careful what you say about Christianity because the poison that you are spreading is extremely offensive to me as well as other Christians. It is time for the Christians to stand up for themselves and stop letting disrespectful people like you trample all over them and I for one will not tolerate it. You need to learn some respect. It is odd how you are so willing to believe this Lloyd M. Graham character, but are so skeptical of the Holy Bible, the only true book ever written. If this cat is so “world renouned, then why hasn’t anyone else referenced him? Just because I haven’t heard of him does not mean that I am ignorant. Just because someone has an education does not make them a smart person. I do feel sorry for you. By the way, what are hick horror movies? Now, you have a great day. Maybe some day you will learn that if you are going to demand respect, you first have to render respect.

  • Santiago Hobbie

    I hardly ever comment on blogs. I did however really enjoy reading the original authors post. I will visit the rest of the this site. Thanks!

  • PlayStation Phone

    MadMax,

    There was a guy that was on this thread who encourage everyone to order a book that was written by a Bible scholar.I have being reading it.I got it two days ago.It was written by lloyd M.Graham(Deceptions and Myths Of The Bible)According to Graham the bible is not a religious book,but based on ancients wisdoms and sciences.Here are some of these wisdoms he is talking about.

    1:Adam and Eve:naked atoms
    2:Noah creater and destroyer(waterman)
    3:Joshua son of Nun(translation:son of murderous water)
    4:Jona( water man)
    5:John the baptist waterman
    6:The battle of Jericho( destruction of matter;not all matter was destroyed,the whore was spared)
    7:Sun myths: Samson,Soloman,David and Samual
    8:Delilah door way to darkness
    9:Lilith Adan first wife Debilitating one
    10:Satan: matter
    11:Abraham borrow from Brahma, meaning creator
    12: Sarah Abraham’s wife meaning fertile earth(half sister)
    13: Christ(sun myth)

    :The Bible is a very sophisticated and complex book and steep in in the occult numbers and symbols; here are the numbers

    :They are
    :3
    :4
    :7
    :12
    :6
    :40
    :70
    :Note the late Albert Einstein said he got his theories from the Koran and the Bible(the Hidden meanings)Check it out

    :Read the book by LLoyd M.Graham(deception and myths of the bible)

    :You will be convince( That the bible was written by the ancient men of wisdom known as the Brotherhood or Blood line) Fact or fiction.You have to decide for yourself.Have a good day

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