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Incredible Shrinking Government Cuts

April 18, 2011 by  

Incredible Shrinking Government Cuts

The devil is in the details, and as the much ballyhooed budget deal reached by House Weeper John Boehner and President Barack Obama is dissected, an evil, despicable lie is revealed: Those “amazing” promised cuts are non-existent.

A report from the Congressional Budget Office indicates the $38 billion Congress supposedly cut from the budget in a deal reached April 8 after days of brinkmanship isn’t really $38 billion. It’s actually less than one-tenth of that: $352 million.

Not that $38 billion was a cut in the first place. It paled in comparison to the paltry $100 billion promised by Republicans trolling for votes last November, which paled next to a $1.5 trillion budget and a so-called $15 trillion debt.

Weeper Boehner and Congressional Republicans (outside of those with the surname Paul) have no intention of cutting government in any significant way. They can’t even cut it back to the previously unbelievable Bush-era numbers. They only favor cutting when shilling for your vote.

The elected elites work for government and, left to their own devices and unburdened from fear of being kicked out of office, they have no intention of cutting. What they do want to do, however, is to raise taxes.

Obama wants to raise taxes on the “rich.” To Obama, the rich is anyone drawing a paycheck. And some in Congress are talking about a Federal tax on Internet transactions.

In other words, the American middle class is the turnip and government is ready to give them another squeeze.

But we don’t have a revenue problem in America. We have a spending problem. And we have only two members of Congress who really understand that. Ron Paul and Rand Paul.

Oh, there are some Congressional Republicans—those elected under the Tea Party banner—who voted against the deal. But I doubt they really understand the depth of the spending problem.

After all, none of them are advocating cutting military spending, which consumed almost $1 trillion in 2009, according to economist Robert Higgs as quoted in Thomas E. Wood Jr.’s book, Rollback.

We also have a tax problem, but not the one that some of the elites would have you believe. Those that are advocating a tax increase on individuals want you to think the problem is that the rich aren’t taxed enough and if we just took some of their earnings, everything would be fine.

But if all the taxable income of everyone earning more than $100,000 was taxed at 100 percent, the earnings would not cover the spending in Obama’s budget plan.

The top 12 multinational corporations? Now that’s another story. But no one is talking about taxing them, despite the fact that they don’t pay taxes and, in some cases, get tax refunds in the billions.

According to a report on Alternet.org, General Electric has paid no taxes since 2006 despite earning $26 billion since then. In fact, in 2006 GE received a tax refund of $4.1 billion. Last year, Bank of America made $4.4 billion and received a refund of $1.9 billion. Other tax avoiders include Verizon, ExxonMobil, Chevron, ConocoPhillips, Valero, Boeing, FedEx, Carnival Cruise Lines, Citi and Goldman Sachs.

These companies used a tax haven given to corporations that do business overseas—but not available to companies doing business solely in the United States—to reduce their tax liability. How did this happen? They spent billions of dollars lobbying the elected elites to gouge out loopholes in the tax laws.

In fact, according to the Alternet.org report, 83 of the 100 largest publicly traded U.S. corporations use these tax havens to reduce their tax liability. So not only is Congress encouraging corporations to move their jobs overseas, it is penalizing companies that choose to remain in the U.S. to do business. And penalizing American workers.

And we wonder why our jobs are going overseas?

But I’ve told you before that taxes are not designed to raise revenue for the government. Income taxes have three purposes: To control and redistribute the volume of money, to direct the behavior of people and corporations and to keep a dossier on all citizens.

“But what about the debt?” you might ask. To which I would reply, “What debt?”

There is none. If the Federal government can print money to infinity, how can there be debt? That word is doublespeak designed to keep you enslaved to the elites and moneychangers.

Think about it. If you had a machine that could crank out legal tender in whatever amount needed to pay off your debts, would you have any debt? Of course not.

And neither does the U.S. government. It is the biggest Ponzi scheme in the history of the world. Yet it’s Bernie Madoff who sits in jail.

So if you’ve put off filing you income tax until today, as you seal that envelope and put it into the mailbox, remember this: The devil is in the details.

And of course, Satan is the father of lies.

Bob Livingston

is an ultra-conservative American who has been writing a newsletter since 1969. Bob has devoted much of his life to research and the quest for truth on a variety of subjects. Bob specializes in health issues such as nutritional supplements and alternatives to drugs, as well as issues of privacy (both personal and financial), asset protection and the preservation of freedom.

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  • Jovianus

    LOL…wow, can you say how you really want everyone to feel?

    Face facts folks…the GOP handed us two unfunded wars. When put into the budget at the change of administrations, the real financial mess we were handed to as the Bush legacy came to light. The unfunded Prescription health bnill, two unfunded wars, and giving the wealthy and Big Corporations a special tex bracketing all add up to one thing…the deficit.

    Yes…some budget items need to be cut, some need to be scaled back. That’s the spending side. What is missing in hte debate from all comments except from Obama is that we need revenue increases as well so as to dig out of this cavernous mess.

    Now..before ya’ll rant and rave about taxes on the wealthy being too high and choking productivity and jobs… consider 54% of all US corporations paying 0% in taxes (Top 1400 corporations in the survey, overall 38% are American owned, 16% are foreign owned subsidiaries), and before y’all rant that the wealthy are paying, on average, 16.6% in income taxes…

    Think about this … As a percentage of income, Big Corproate America and the top 5% of income pay less today than ever before in history in effective tax rates. Compared to the top 50 countries, in effective taxation, our the Middle Class and poor pay a higher percentage in income taxes than 49.

    So answer this…why should the wealthy and Big Corporate America get a free ride on our backs?

    • http://www.diyyardandhome.com Dan

      If all you claim is true then the answer is simple. A flat tax on businesses and individual income. Or a consumption tax on all concerned and get rid of the IRS.

      • http://www.poorgrandchildren.com Poorgrandchildren

        The Fair Tax is better than a flat tax. We tried something close to a flat tax (only three brackets) under Reagan, and you can see how well that fared.

        • http://www.diyyardandhome.com Dan

          and who defines what is fair? and the economy under Reagan was the best it has been in years. Don’t give me the great economy under Clinton either, it was all smoke and mirrors and collapsed with the .com bubble.

          • Bootsaddle

            Absolutely!

          • Robin from Arcadia, IN

            Dan… My understanding is that the Fair Tax is the same as a consumption tax. Everyone pays the same percentage on consumables. No more need for the IRS!

        • DaveH

          And why do you think the Fair Tax wouldn’t be similarly altered and abused in following Congresses? And why should the business people be turned into the tax collectors for the US Government? We have no idea how convoluted the Fair Tax could become in the hands of Congressmen. Already since its inception, the proposed tax rate has gone from 10% to 17%. The Fair Tax is a fraud:
          http://mises.org/daily/1814

          I would like to take this moment to correct a common error. The tax system proposed as a “flat tax” is really a “flat rate tax” which is still based on income. A true “flat tax” would be every adult citizen paying the same tax, period. And why not? We don’t pay more for our automobiles based on our income, do we? We don’t pay more for our homes based on our income, do we? Why should people pay more for their Government based on income? After all, much of Government is based on protecting the lower wage earners isn’t it? So even with a constant tax, they would still be getting more from Government than the rest of us. The best thing about everybody paying the same would be the fact that with everybody having the same skin in the game, you could bet your money that people would start scrutenizing Government waste a lot more carefully. That would be a good thing for the Mainstream Citizen, and a bad thing for the Political Class.

          The best thing we could do is to cut the Federal Government back to its Constitutionally mandated size which was subverted by power-hungry government leaders as far back as Abraham Lincoln.

          As Thomas Jefferson said “The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground”.

          • independant thinker

            “A true “flat tax” would be every adult citizen paying the same tax, period.”

            So you would punish the working poor by having them pay the same $ in taxes as the wealthy. Your proposal would push the working poor either into starvation or onto welfare thus increasing the welfare rolls.

          • kkflash

            Independent Thinker: If the government weren’t so bloated, even the poor could afford to pay their fair share to support it, instead of paying nothing. In nature, the animal that can’t support and defend itself perishes, and thus the species becomes gradually stronger. But in human nature, we feel sympathy for the weak and give them charity. When that charity isn’t freely given, but imposed by government, we call it an entitlement. The more we support the weak, the greater in number they become, and our society as a whole gradually weakens.

          • DaveH

            No, Thinker, it is you who are punishing the working poor by allowing Government to take money from those who build wealth and provide the jobs, and giving it to Government people who only consume the wealth.

          • sylviam

            I have paid taxes all my adult life. Never have I failed to pay my fair share, but today with all the CROOKS saying pay up or suffer my rath, I will say to all the CROOKED POLITITIONS, PAY ME OR JUST DIE. I say EVERY MAN, WOMAN in the US, STOP PAYING TAXES, STOP BOWING TO THE DEVILS, AND FIRE THEM ALL. We can take care of our own selves. We do NOT need them to tell us haow to live or DIE.
            We do not NEED THEM, THEY NEED US TO SURVIVE.
            GOD BLESS AMERICA

          • kkflash

            Oooo Sylvia! That’s some serious tax revolt talk there. Good thing this blog site is anonymous or the feds would be knocking on your door by suppertime.

          • DaveH

            Sylviam,
            I understand your angst, but as long as the Federal Reserve exists, they would just print more money and go on spending until our savings and our economy is destroyed.
            For those who think they wouldn’t as they own welfare would surely be at stake, I say look at Cuba which has stubbornly clung to Communism even as their country has become empoverished. Leaders don’t care if their economies suffer as long as they are on top.

        • FreedomFighter

          Fair Tax

          In addition to providing a reliable tax base, this method would stop the Demonrats and any others using entitlements to gain votes. In fact it would promote a lean effiecent goverment system with those that perform for the citizens of the USA being favored for election.

          With everyone in the tax system few would want to raise taxes to provide services to those without a clue–lazy, scamsters etc etc…yet we can still easily take care of those that are in true need, better than we can now.

          Laus Deo
          Semper Fi

        • Dan az

          poorgrandchildren
          FairTax advocates claim that their plan would repeal of the 16th Amendment. However, all H.R. 25 does is repeal Subtitle A of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 that relates to income taxes and self-employment taxes and Subtitle C that relates to payroll taxes and the withholding of income taxes. The only mention of the 16th Amendment in H.R. 25 is when it says: “Congress further finds that the 16th amendment to the United States Constitution should be repealed.”

          To repeal the 16th Amendment would require a constitutional amendment. Can Congress be relied on to pass a constitutional amendment that repeals the 16th amendment after a national sales tax has already been enacted? And even if Congress passed a constitutional amendment, it would still have to be approved by three-fourths of the states. Without the repeal of the 16th Amendment, what is to prevent an income tax from being imposed again after a national sales tax has been enacted?

        • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

          Poorgrandkids:

          Under Reagan it was not a flat tax, or anything close.

          A flat tax eliminates all deductions. I is just that, a flat tax – one rate- on all income. i.e.: you make $100,000 / year and the flat tax it 10%, you pay $10,000.

          Under the Reagan tax custs revenue to the treasury almost doubled.

          ONe problem with the Fair Tax as I see it is there is no provision for removing the 16th Ammendment. That would allow the dirt-bag politicians to re-institute the income tax down the road.

        • patty

          Not only were the Reagan years good they overflowed into Clinton’s to make him look good. Just like whoever takes over after Nobama with his Obama care is going to look really bad because it does not take totally into effect until he is gone. We need to get back to the basics as much as possible and start over.

        • James

          Poorgrandchildren, A flat tax with three bracket levels isn’t flat. A flat rax would be where everyone pays the same percentage rate.

      • Bert Cundle

        Getting rid of I.R.S. Is: Getting rid of GOVERNMENT!!! FAIR (Fare)Taxing would be 10% Income ONLY “ON EVERY INCOME PARTISIPATENT” Personal; Bussiness; & Churches! Reduce the EXTREEM Beaurocracy & Loby Laws… Change the voting to CITIZANS Only! CIVILIZE U.S. of A. by Abolishing the CRIMINAL SYSTEM! Ballance IMPORT / EXPORT!

        • Joe

          you already have to be a citizen to vote

          • Bert Cundle

            Than Why are the balots in Foregn Languages?

          • Robin from Arcadia, IN

            Joe… You don’t even have to be alive in some areas of the country!

        • James

          Bert C., God Help Us!

      • Edward Chandler

        If all you say is true lets get every crooked polititian out of Washinton. I thought Husein and his gangsters were the worst crooks in Washnington , but the weeping crooked, lying John Boehner and his fellow cooks need to go too and RIGHT NOW. I believed in John Boehner, but he really sold us out. I even hate to think of him coming back to Ohio after he gets kicked out.

        • DaveH

          We had a very similar situation under Jimmy Carter. He didn’t start the mess, but he increased it dramatically, just like Obama is. The Republicans offered themselves as the solution and, with the exception of Ronald Reagan (who did his best, but was ultimately overwhelmed by the Big Spenders), the Republicans mostly failed us.
          The Libertarian Party which started in the 1970s offered the real solution — Limited Government, Free Markets, Personal Responsibility, Individual Freedom, and Peace. But the Libertarian ideas were smothered in the MSM (we didn’t have Fox back then), and very few people understood their platform. Well, that is changing, thanks largely to the Internet and to Fox Business Network (John Stossel, Judge Napolitano). Is it any wonder the Political Classes fight so hard against Fox, and are trying so hard to control the Internet?
          Let’s wake up and change things for the better (much better). Vote Libertarian!
          http://libertarianparty.org/platform

          • Bert Cundle

            We Can’t Have Libertian Rule UNTIL: The Criminal System is Distroyed!

          • Dr. Mabuse

            I agree Dave, but you can’t leave out Paul Volcker, (Fed Reserve Board) who pushed inflation up sky high durng the Carter regime. As far as Reagan goes, I would urge everyone to revisit the Grace Commission report, sanctioned by Ronnie, and their subsequent findings. Both sides of the aisle share equal blame in regards to the deficit and the tax debacle, both then and now.

        • Nadzieja Batki

          Why did you believe him in the first place?

      • kkflash

        But all he/she claims is NOT true.

    • http://MSN PHYLLIS

      I AGREE WITH YOU 100% WE HAVE GOT TO GET OBAMA OUT OF THERE AND FAST!!!! HE IS MESSING UP EVERYTHING. HE IS DARIING US TO STOP HIM. WATCH HOW HE STICKS HIS NOSE IN THE AIR. WHEN HE TALKS FACE TO FACE WITH ANYONE HE IS LIEING. HE WILL NOT LOOK THEM IN THE EYE. WATCH HIS MANORISUMS. THEY TELL YOU A LOT.
      I KNOW HE IS NOT A US CITIZEN. THERE IS A TAPE IN THE COMPUTERS IF IT WILL COME AROUND AGAIN SHOWING WHERE HE ADMITTED HE IS A MUSLUM AND WAS BORN IN KENYA. HIS GRANDMOTHER, AUNT, WIFE AND HE HIMSELF HAVE ALL ADMITTED IT. WHAT ARE THEY WAITING ON. JUST FOUND THE OTHER DAY HE IS USIING SOMEONE ELSE’S SS NUMBER, WHERE WOULD WE BE IF WE COULDNT SHOW OURS OR OUR BIRTCHCERTIFICATE?????????????????//

      • Jovianus

        Phyllis…go back and do more drugs. Pres. Obama’s birth has been well documented and proven. He is an American citizen. Any claims to the contrary are made to mislead the ignorant… (Psst..I saw a video shoiwng the moon is made of green cheese and that Armstrong never walked on the moon. I’d say your cited vid matches up with the one I saw. Totally fake and not a kernal of truth to either one…though I thinki the composition of the moon being green cheese is more believable thatn your claims about Pres. Obama)

        • http://none ucsjimj

          Ok show me the money! Why is it we can only take this flip flop expert at his word? I want to see proof and not some a bunch of fake papers.
          I say this, anyone who has been caught and video taped in as many lies and untruths as this person, can not be trusted.

          • Eddie47d

            Videos lie all the time and usually depends on which side of the lie that you are on.Jesse Venture says alot of wild things with his spliced and diced shows. Some are true and some are nothing more than the slight of hand.

          • DaveH

            Next, Eddie will try to convince us that their lips were not really moving when they said those words. Those lip movements were dubbed-in to make them look bad. Some people will embrace any beliefs and any lack of morality if they think they will benefit.

        • Sue B

          An American birth for Obama has NOT been documented or well documented. Tell us how…,.,.not that Certificate of Live Birth from Hawaii or the claims of some officials that they have seen such a document anbd now cannot locate it. Give us all a break and stop making that claim.

          • Doug K

            President Obama’s mother was an American citizen. That means it doesn’t matter where he was born.

          • Average Joe

            Doug K says:,

            Maybe this will help to clear up some of the dead spaces in your mind. Taken from the government’s own website.Please take note of the first line and the words…”all of the following”…not just some…ALL.

            For persons born between December 24, 1952 and November 14, 1986, a person is a U.S. citizen if all of the following are true:

            1.One of the person’s parents was a U.S. citizen when the person in question was born
            2.The citizen parent lived at least ten years in the United States before the child’s birth;
            3.A minimum of 5 of these 10 years in the United States were after the citizen parent’s 14th birthday.
            Obama was born on August 4, 1961. His mother was 18 years old at the time of his birth (On August 4, 1961, at the age of 18, Dunham gave birth to her first child, Barack Obama II.). Do the math… 4 years within the US between her 14th birthday and the birth of her son not 5 as required under the law at the time.

            In the future, please refrain from giving us your opinions…and instead give us the substantiated facts.

        • kkflash

          If his citizenship is so well documented, then why is the State of Arizona not satisfied with the documentation? They just passed a law last week requiring proof of citizenship before a candidate’s name can be placed on the ballot, and guess what, Obama’s so-called documentation does not pass the test described in the new law. If he wants to be on the ballot in AZ in 2012, he’s going to have to go to court and win his case, or provide some better proof of his citizenship.

        • DaveH

          Are you pushing drugs now, Jovianus? It wouldn’t surprise me.
          And neither you nor I know where Obama was really born. You know that. Obama could simply produce his authentic Birth Certificate and end the controversy. Anyway, for sure that is a distraction, because the real problem goes far beyond Obama. Socialists have become firmly rooted in this country, and we need to start using some Roundup on them to destroy those roots, before they destroy our country.

          • Average Joe

            DaveH,
            I can agree with everything in your post…except the use of “Roundup”. Roundup is manufactured by Monsanto Corp….the compny that keeps patenting “seeds and animals” in an attempt to control the food markets of the world. Monsanto, the major backer and writer of the “Food Safety and Modernization Act”, that recently passed congress. I will not support or buy anything that comes from these life killers…..BOYCOTT MONSANTO!

          • DaveH

            That was a euphemism.

          • Karolyn

            Average Joe – I’m with you on the Monsanto thing. They need to be stopped. They have a testing farm about 28 miles from here, and I am so tempted to go there and smear dog poop on their sign just for the satisfaction of doing it.

        • Don

          Don’t believe anything jova says, like hussain, he’s a liar also, just another puppet dangling on a string !!

        • Nadzieja Batki

          Why are you making fun of Phyllis? You want your opinion to be read, so give her the same courtesy.

        • shibamom

          Well documented???? When the hell did that happen?? Oh…you mean that fake BC that was posted on the Internet? I think you need to do a little more research. That con artist is not a citizen.

      • Nora Smith

        Nothing is wrong in having an alien in the US. America is the most generous and blessed nation on earth!!
        If president Obama is not a born American, but it is the commander in chief, who’s fault is it? I did not VOTE for him. I love life and I’ll never put the life of the innocent in the hands of the enemy.
        Besides this discussion is about the economic situation of our nation not whether our president is or it is not American.
        Let’s start think on our feet and together try to participate in this historic and negative event of our nation and keep its name as always has been, a nation with liberty and justice for all!!

        • DaveH

          I beg to differ, Nora. Are we a Nation of Laws or are we a Nation of Men? The Constitution requires the President to be a natural born citizen of the United States. Until that is Constitutionally amended, he is breaking the law if he was not born in the US.
          Of course his citizenship is just the tip of the iceberg. The major problem is that Men (in Government) have been ignoring the Main Law of the Land (the Constitution) for almost 2 centuries now. Is it any wonder that we have the chaos we currently have?
          The whole concept of a Democratic Republic depends on the people and the Government obeying the Laws. Without that obeyance, we have chaos.

        • Robin from Arcadia, IN

          Nora.. There is definitely something wrong with an alien as POTUS! We don’t all sit around and fantasize of a brave new world where we sing KumByeYa around the White House! We have rules like this for a reason!

      • DMS

        It’s all by design: It is US – WE the People – against them – the politicians. They will allow the Pauls to speak out, but they control the message. The Constitution is null and void, and preparations are being made for a dismantling of societies by the end of 2012.

        • Kate8

          DMS – Thank God for those who actually get it.

          We keep going over the same meaningless arguments every day on these threads, as if everything is as it’s always been, while ignoring the real situation at hand.

          You summed it up in a couple of sentences.

          Few will notice, but thank you.

          • Carlucci

            I agree -! How in the world can we effect change if everyone can’t get on the same page? Everyone is so distracted by b.s. while the evildoers/useful idiots in fedguv continue on their merry way to send us and our fellow Americans to Bendover Acres.

          • shibamom

            Well, I’m one who noticed and I do not like what I see at all!! The way I see it, the politicians know more about human nature than anything else. They know that there is a large segment of the population that are young, rebellious, idealistic, and want to change the world. In their zeal for, usually, social justice, they tend to ignore the boring political details. These folks usually don’t “wake up” until they accumulate some life experience which typically involves some sort of run in with the Feds or something crazy like the election of a con artist to the highest office in the land. Then they start to notice that things are not as they seem to be or as they used to be. I’m describing myself here however, I think this is a human cycle that we all go through. The only thing that separates us is when that “wake up call” happens in our life. There’s nothing more horrifying than “wakeing up” and realizing that our way of life, quality of life, and our great nation has been taken hostage and the kidnappers (the politicians) are brutally demanding a ransome as if it’s all our fault that we made them become corrupt. All of this stinks, the politician’s stink, and it’s up to us to fix it one way or another.

        • kkflash

          I raised the possibility you refer to in this blog last week. It’s plausible that the Obama administration is deliberately trying to default on the debt and collapse the economy to bring about the social upheaval necessary to open the door for a new, presumably socialist, form of government. They’ll blame the collapse on the previous administration, and with more than half the voters on the public dole, and facing starvation, potentially bring about the radical change and new world order he desires. They need to do this before the 2012 election, so they don’t risk being voted out of office. Sounds far-fetched I know but first step in the debt default occurred today, as our credit rating was downgraded by S&P.

          • Kate8

            kkflash – Has it occurred to anyone that, since our world is entirely media created, they could tell us ANYTHING and we would have no way to know the difference?

            Suppose we woke up in the morning and Obama, or even the talking media heads, told us that America had collapsed and a new government was being installed, that we were now under new rule.

            What would we do? Of course everyone would believe it. Would we simply go along with it? I’d bet on it.

            This is what is really ominous. WE HAVE NO WAY OF DETERMINING REALITY EXCEPT FROM THE MEDIA. And the media is owned by those intent on world government.

            Things have been carefully set up this way.

      • Tilly

        Send me your email address and I will send you the link.

    • Bob

      Jovial Anus: The facts are this: corporations don’t pay taxes, consumers do when the buy the products the corporation makes. Your post is a typical lieberal lie that tries to hide that fact. The only way to handle the debt is to slash and burn our way through government spending by slashing government pay checks and burning down government programs. This needs to happen from the schoolhouse to the Whotehouse. Our government is a bloated, parasitic, malignant dragon that needs to be slain. I also noted that you make no mention of the parasitic hollywood millionairs and billionaires that support the scumocrat party – how many of them pay their fair share of taxes? Weren’t several of these lieberal celebs burned in investment schemes that tried to reduce their taxes? What about the 50% of Americans who do not pay taxes; these parasites that live off of the rest of us? What about illegal immigrants who drain our resources? You are nothing more but another lieberal leech who seeks to parasitize the productive to feed the parasites.

      • http://personalliberty.com frank

        Love that one Bob Jovi ANUS lol but she sure is an anus.

      • Jovianus

        Well Bob, when you take a good econ course, you’ll discover that not all is passed down. There’s such a thing as competitive marketplaces.

        But…if I understand your position correctly, you’d cut the programs benefitting the Middle Class and the poor, and ask the Middle Class and poor to continue to subsidize the perks to the wealthy and Big Corporations (foreign and domestic). So we pay more, get less, and the wealthy and Big Corporations get more and pay less.

        Somewhere that probably makes sense…ya like being a slave?

        • Bob

          More lying and denying anus – that is all you have.

          • Eddie47d

            Bob and company will complain about Jovianus and his analysis. The usual name calling is in full swing. I get a kick when the right or left talks about the New World Order when in reality the above mentioned companies (GE Chevron,etc)are the NWO. They control our lives from afar and don’t have to pay for the privilege of doing so.They are allowed to lobby and influence Congress and take more than they give back.They have already taken their corporations overseas yet make American CEO salaries. Foreign governments wouldn’t pay them those obnoxious paychecks so why do we keep doing it? RICH below says the wealthy have tax favored investments. Now that is a mouthful in how they scheme and scam and become even wealthier. I’m sure there are a few folks right here who have made a bundle off these deals. They don’t want to talk about why a project costs so much when they are collecting thousands in dividends.It’s easy to defend corporate shenanigans when you are in on these ponzi deals.You don’t want to bite the hand that feeds you.

          • http://personalliberty.com frank

            ANUS strikes again lol you can’t make this stuff up. JOVI ANUS is very entertaining though.lol again.

        • Bruce D.

          Jovianus don’t you have any shame begging all the time. I miss the old days when people had self respect and did everything they could not to take handouts even if they had to go without. Jovianus you and your

        • infantryweasel

          Negative, that is not what I am saying…

          What I was saying is your comment is incorrect by specifically including poor in your comment. From a low income perspective, if you get a refund from the taxes you did pay, then what have you really paid? Nothing.

          Nothing doesn’t fund “the privilege” to live in this country. I agree whole heartedly that it’s indeed a privilege to live in this country. The poor need all the help they can get and I have no problem with the refunds they get.

          The middle class carries a huge burden and it needs to be rectified. I am in total agreement with you on that account.

          However, if you want to find freeloaders look no further than the emergency room rife with illegals that pay nothing towards income tax. Remove this burden and others… like corporations that exploit the tax loopholes created by special interest groups. Groups who in turn buy these loopholes from our elected elite.

          So rather than just make the rich pay more why don’t we hit this issue on multiple fronts… remove all the freeloaders, not just pick on one group of freeloaders.

          Maybe a flat tax is the answer? I don’t know, but the path we are on is unsustainable.

          I think you and I are closer to agreement than you my believe.

          • kkflash

            I’ve posted this story before, but it pertains to your comment so I’ll tell it again. My father, who recently filed his 2010 tax return received a refund that was $36 MORE than what he paid in last year. He made over $53K last year including his Social Security income of about $29K. I’ve learned from talking to people about this fact that it is not uncommon at all under our current system. This is the democrats idea of a fair tax system – more than 50% of the voters get every government benefit this country offers for nothing, and they expect the producers in the higher income brackets to pay for it all. That way they keep their voting block intact.

        • Bruce D.

          Jovianus don’t you ever get tired of begging for money. You lack self respect. There was a time in this country where people would do everything they could from accepting handouts as it brought them shame. You seem to have no shame Jovianus. You are part of the entitlement age that lacks that kind of dignity.

          • Eddie47d

            You are the shameful one Bruce D; You slam Jovianus yet seem to be one of the defenders of the wealthy and their entitlement programs. The Capitalist system is broke from that end also. Very few rich folks work for their money anymore and sit back and make money off of money. Nothing new there except someone has to pay for that money they are receiving. The money isn’t trickling down to help America but adds costs to everything we buy or build.Entitlement programs for the poor do increase the debt but tax deferments,CEO salaries,and other trickle up policies do increase inflation. The cost of everything for everybody goes up when we are allowing ourselves to be manipulated by Wall Street and other entities or corporate greed.

          • Bruce D.

            I guess you have failed to read Bob’s article with comprehension also Eddie. If you took 100% of what everyone making over $100,000 a year it would not pay Obama’s budget and $100,000 a year is not rich. Socialism cannot succeed based on a system of productivity. Money quickly dries up. The U.S can print money and does but that creates inflation which hurts the poor and those on fixed incomes the most. You are living in a dream world Eddie where the income of a few rich people can make everyone affluent. Rich people have rights under our Constitution also and while they are in a very slim minority they have protections also from leeches like you. Printing paper money Eddie seems like a nice idea but really hurts the poor and those on fixed incomes the most and you are beginning to see that in food prices now. I do not like Obama’s corrupt association with GE, Google. or Soros so do not claim I am for corporations getting favored treatment or special benefits. That is a made up talking point of socialists. I, like others, are only looking for a fair playing field and thats it. No handouts no special favors.

          • Eddie47d

            Bruce; You’ll be right there scratching the backs of the Koch Brothers and my comment had nothing to do with printing paper money.

        • DaveH

          Like you know anything at all about Economics, Jovianus.
          For those who would like to learn some reality, start here:
          http://mises.org/

        • patty

          Jovianus – you keep beating the same drum. Corp. welfare. Why do you put it all on repubs? What about GE? What about wall street? Fannie & Freddie Mac? What about all the bail out money that went to the unions that are going to fund his re-election campaign? Where do you think all of the bail out money has gone that your boy has sent out? He is so blatant about it, it is like flipping us all off. How do you feel about that? Are you OK with all of that with your “savior”?

    • sherriww

      @jovianus:thank you for making sense on this Monday morning.Only wish more people would see things as they are and not as they imagine them to be.With,as you say,the most wealthy among us paying from 1%To 16.6% fed income tax,while you and me,and all others like us,are paying a bigger% of a little income,most folks should be asking”what is wrong with this picture?”With now 150 of the countries Billionaires,and many millionaires,ASKING for their taxes to be raised to put America back on the right road,there is only one answer:that the ones still calling for CUTS for the poor while this goes on,are the ones being paid off by the certin few uber-rich that want it ALL.also,when they say a certin% pays no fed income tax,they fail to tell that is mostly folks past working age and on soc.sec.with income so low NOW,that they NO LONGER pay fed tax-BUT they DID all their work years.And still pay plenty of other tax.I,myself,paid 15%On my SOC.SEC. income this year,and many do.And yes,we DO have arevenue problem,and spending cuts are NOT the only answer-that will finish wrecking this country,without a tax code where everyone+corporations pay afair share NOW.anything else is pure foolishness,and,gee,do you notice how gov,rick perry,of TX,wants Obama to send help NOW,FEDERAL HELP?LAST month,gov perry wanted to leave the U.S!Personally,I would tell him to figure it out for himself-him and all the silly govenors just like him!

      • dave

        An unmentioned part of the picture are the un and under-employed, they pay no taxes and don’t qualify for the earned income tax credit either (I for one). We don’t drive to and from work (that accounts for part of the decrease in auto accidents/deaths, etc), take vacations, fly, buy non-essentials(so much for all that “discretionary spending”, and are (at least with this blogger) spending our way through what little financial resources we had; God only knows what we do when that runs out
        My Master’s degree, physical and cataract surgery are complements of Uncle Sam and my tour of duty with the Navy including Vietnam.
        I don’t know much but have managed to realize that Libs mean to opposite of what they’re saying, when they’re talking they’re often lying, and they often fail to see the Muslim in the wings salivating over what will be left of the USA for them.

        • dave

          …forgot to mention – haven’t seen a dentist for decades, don’t go to doctors as a rule (my experience with the medical and mental health profession has educated me), and given the fact that 100% of all people who are born eventually die regardless of medical care have little reason to fund educations, vacations, etc. for the wealthy of both of the above professions
          I’m old enough to be off the radar (67-68), a conservative Christian, and trusting my Lord and Savior with the rest of my earthly existence.

        • Suzette

          You hit the nail on the head, Dave. A modern prophet has warned, “there is a snake in the White House”…not that I needed a prophet to know that. THE MUSLIMS ARE A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN OUR COUNTRY. …and sadly, they probably will take it from us. Most Americans, including Republicans have their heads in the sand and won’t know what hit when it happens. Most people won’t be ready and many will die. Obama knows exactly what he’s doing. America is on it’s last leg, it will crumble….there are so many things against us, the debt, the Muslims….. We will in the not too far future no longer exist as a nation…..we will become The North America Union, along with Canada and Mexico.
          Nor do I go to doctors! It’s a sham! The big Pharma Companies are killing us….on purpose! Cancer is not a disease! It is a bodily process. The only time cancer is a problem is if it obstructs something. Yet they kill us with chemo. The Bible warns us to not be decieved by pharmaceuticals! (Revelations 18: 23…..sorceries in the Greek is pharmakeia)

          • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

            suzette,
            Thayer’s Greek-English Lexicon gives this info-”1. The use or the administering of drugs. 2. Poisoning 3. Sorcery, magical arts.” Under the word ‘pharmakeus’ the following is contained- “One who prepares or uses magical remedies; a sorcerer” “Pharmakon- a drug; an enchantment” “Pharmokos- pertaining to magical arts”

          • patty

            Yo, Anyone know where I can get some peyote? This is getting downright depressing.

      • DaveH

        For a real eye-opener, Sherri, emigrate to Cuba, the workers’ paradise and really learn some of that “reality” you tout:
        http://heritage.org/index/Country/Cuba

        • Thamera

          Sherri says: “there is only one answer:that the ones still calling for CUTS for the poor while this goes on,are the ones being paid off by the certin few uber-rich that want it ALL”

          I didn’t know that all of us who value smaller government and spending cuts were getting paid off by the uber rich, did you Dave H? I haven’t got my payoff yet, have you? Anyone? LMAO!!!!! I have to say Sherri, you sure keep things entertaining but I agree with Dave, visited Cuba lately????

      • kkflash

        Sherri, we’re not calling for cuts for the poor. We’re calling for cuts to the government, and they are certainly not poor. Last year the federal government collected $7747 in taxes for every man, woman and child in 2010 US census. That wasn’t enough for them, however, as they spent $12,926 per person. Are you getting your money’s worth?

      • patty

        Sherrieww – Are you talking about those crack whores living in a 5 bedroom house with paid or suppliment utilities including a cell phone. The one with 4 kids, 4 dads collecting 345.00 per child on social security. The one collecting 800/per month in food stamps while she is also at the food shelf because she sold her food stamps on the black market for crack or used it at the casino? The one with the $125/hair do and $75 nail job? The one that goes and gets her kids designer clothes for nothing at the goodwill? The one that takes her kids to the ER for free care? THAT BITCH THAT IS GETTING over 60K per year in tax free benefits. ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT THAT POOR WOMAN????

    • Bruce D.

      I do not think you have very good reading comprehension Jovianus or you just didn’t read the article. If you tax 100% of the income of those making over $100,000 a year you would not cover Obama’s spending spree. Obama is not going to end GEs tax break as Obama is deep in corporate corruption with GE, Wall Street, and with George Soros. You don’t seem to get it. You also do not seem to get Obama started a third war which has cost over 250 million to date and expanded another war into Pakistan which isn’t going well either and costing in the billions. You cannoy absolve Obama from that as his foreign policies are not a lot different than George Bush’s and his spending makes Bush seem like a piker as bad as it was.

      • kkflash

        And let’s not forget that it was a Democrat controlled congress that voted us into Iraq in the first place. J. Anus, like all the head-in-the-sand libs, can blame the wars and everything else on Bush, but the fact is, only Congress can declare war and authorize the military spending to wage it. It was the Democrats who controlled Congress when that occurred.

        • Eddie47d

          Bruce D.; Our foreign entanglements are getting more “entangled”. It was the India-Pakistan conflict decades ago that got us involved in Pakistan. They started feeding at our trough a long time ago and the world is using us to prop up their regimes. The same with Israel and Egypt. If we feed one without the other then one bites back.That is hardly Obama’s fault since the Afghanistan War also dragged us into Pakistan before Obama. I don’t like Obama’s Libyan incursion because we may be feeding them for another 100 years. Also Yemen will have two hands out and right on down the line. This will also add to the national debt.

          • Bruce D.

            Obama can pull out of Afghanistan anytime he wants to. He could also stop bombing Nt. Pakistan today. He has been the Commander in Chief for over two years now. It is his decision that keeps us there and his alone. He could pull out any time he wanted to. He owns those wars now. People may say he cut and ran but if that is all that is stopping him and he believes we should be out of there then he is not much of a president is he.

          • http://personalliberty.com frank

            This is even more entertaining along with JOVI ANUS we now have this liberal clown EDDIE 47 ANUS lol!!!lol!~!!lol!!!.

          • Eddie47d

            So kind of you Frankfurter.

    • DaveH

      Give it up, Jovianus, the people on this board don’t fall for the Liberal Double-Speak.

      “GOP handed us two unfunded wars”? Yes, we should quit being the World’s Policemen, but why, Jovianus, aren’t you raving about Obama’s Unconstitutional and unnecessary Libyan War?

      If the Financial Mess is Bush’s fault, what kept Obama from solving that mess? I mean, he had the power to ram through an unpopular Health Care Bill (which adds to the mess), but he didn’t have the power to roll back the Bush Mess?

      “The unfunded Prescription Health Bill”? See above.

      “giving the wealthy and Big Corporations a special tex bracketing”? Corporations don’t pay taxes. People pay taxes. Whatever tax is paid by Corporations comes out of the American peoples’ hides with higher product prices or lost jobs.

      “We need revenue increases”? Really? Has anybody here ever known Congress to do anything but spend more money when they receive revenue increases? Learn from Canada’s real life example:
      http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/canadas-spending-cuts-and-economic-growth/

      “consider 54% of all US corporations paying 0% in taxes”? See my comment on Corporate Taxes. 58% of the income taxes, by the way, are paid by only 5% of the wage earners. Jovianus apparently thinks that isn’t their “fair” share. Meanwhile the bottom 50% of wage earners pay only 3% of the wage earners. Those 50% with almost no skin in the game get to vote for how our taxes will be spent. Unbelievable.

      So why is Jovianus working so hard with his double-speak to sway our minds? Could it be that he is feeding at the trough? Could it be that he is one of the Political Class who are never satisfied that we pay enough taxes to support their lavish lifestyles at the taxpayers’ expense? See my next comment for a supporting link.

      • DaveH

        How the Political Class feels about our tax burden:
        http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/business/taxes/april_2011/64_say_americans_are_overtaxed_political_class_disagrees

        From the above article:
        “While 79% of Mainstream voters think Americans are overtaxed, 87% of those in the Political Class don’t share that assessment”

        • Thamera

          I really doubt he or Sherri for that matter read anything factual. Oh, and did you hear the good news? The S&P has downgraded our credit rating…mean anything to you Jovi, Sherri etc.????

      • DaveH

        Correction:
        “50% of wage earners pay only 3% of the wage earners” should have been “50% of wage earners pay only 3% of the income taxes”.

    • barbm

      “…the Middle Class and poor pay a higher percentage in income taxes…” the poor, huh? the poor get earned income credit which not only gives them back every penny they pay in, it gives them back those dollars and 3 times more. why should the govt pay people to work? this year, there’s anotheer credit for the poor, the work pay credit. my nephew, who is on disability, is going to college and working there 19 hours per week. the college didn’t take out taxes but, when i did his taxes this weekend, he’s getting back over $750. i know that’s nothing compared to those large corps and the super wealthy getting back billions, but there are a lot more poor, so it adds up fast to a fortune. because of my age, if i were to get a job, i wouldn’t even be elligible for the eic.

    • http://none k.p

      Dan
      American corporations pay the highest corporate tax compared to other countries 25%. Altrough it is true that loophokes as they are called are provided by our politicians, for the most part loopholes are provided to corporations and companies as depreciation and depletion allowancies. As they grow they occur expensives such as buildings, equipment, employees, etc. To continue to grow they need revenue because the growth cost exceeds revenue. This is done they private investers and tax relieve. Depletion is for companies that have a product the becomes less as the company provides it like oil and mining which depletes their revenue.
      The up side to growth is that it creates jobs and grows the economy. The down side to Depletion at a specific time leads to less revenue and less jobs. subsidies are given to ease the job loss or maintian capitalisation.
      In an ideal world this works well. Of course there are times when these ideals are abused. This needs to be adressed but to condemn the whole corporate stucture only leads to more corporations and companies moving abroad. Remember without them we have no jobs. We are no longer the only booming producing country although we are the bigest still and we need to keep promoting and standing by our industries.
      One other issue is that not all coporations leave for cheap labor. They go to other countries for growth and service that sector like fast food, power, telecomunications, etc. Their revenue is derivided
      from that sector and pay the taxes of that sector. It benifits us by providing goods and products and tehincal personal and equipment.
      Just taxing them more will not stabilize our budget. We need smaller government that is less intrusive and more effecient
      Things will stabilize and corportaions and companies will begin to grow and hire and we all will prosper from it. Keep them here by supporting them and ask congress and politicians to make the subtle changes that will benifit every one involded.
      K.P.

      • kkflash

        You’ve got the corporate tax picture close, KP, but not quite right. Our rate is 35%, not 25%. Check out this weblink:
        http://www.deloitte.com/assets/Dcom-Global/Local%20Assets/Documents/Tax/dtt_corporate_tax_rates_2011.pdf

        US Corporations have higher tax rates than ALL but THREE of the top 150 industrialized nations.

      • patty

        Not to throw a wrench in anything, but that corp. rate is on the bottom line that is well deminished with deductions and subsidies. Not sure what foreign countries have for deductions. So, not really sure if we are comaparing apples to apples on this. Just a thought.

    • http://?? Joe H.

      Jovi,
      Yes, Bush gave us two unfunded wars, so what does Nobummer do??? Involves us in another!! He said they were begging for a no fly zone and we had to go to their rescue. Well now they are begging for ground troops, ARE WE TO GET MORE INVOLVED???? there isn’t one life over there worth one American defenders life, WE SHOULD STAY THE HELL OUT!!!

    • thinking

      Funny as you fight over fair tax and who should pay what and how much others should pay, you are missing the whole point. Tax is a control issue, not a need issue for the government. How do they keep power and grow power? How do they keep people under their control? The reason no taxing plan will ever work is because of human nature: power corrupts…
      Our believed government system has come to an end with the federal government’s power grab. What you need to decuss is what system will take the place of this failing system! Or just do what the government wants and fight over who else should pay for your sins…

  • http://www.diyyardandhome.com Dan

    We are almost to the tipping point where the US will slide into inflation and even hyperinflation and we have idiots in congress fighting over <100 billion. The whole things disgusts me and pisses me off. Then I hear a Republican in the senate over the weekend state that taxes will have to rise to pay off the debt. They are getting into the mode of Comprehensive Immigration Reform when we demanded they close and secure our borders before there is any discussion about further immigration reform. Let's seem them cut the budget to bare bones before they decide they still need to raise taxes.

    • Jovianus

      Ahhh…so you don’t see any reason to make the income taxes paid by the wealthy and Big Corporations more equitable to they pay their fair share?

      Tell us Dan, if our taxes are so high…..in the Industrialized World, what tax system would you advocate we switch to?

      I agree we need to hammer on our tax code. Wayyy too many breaks for the wealthy and Big Corporations. And we, the Middle Class and the poor, are paying for their privileges of living in our society. It’s about time they quit freeloading on our backs and pay up their fair share.

      As for budget cuts…leaving out the social issues (such as the blarney spouted about planned parenthood), what would you begin to cut? If you were a politician, your choice is the money train or the voting public. Seeing as the GOP has proven its followers are easily led and fooled, the GOP thinks they should be able to protect the wealthy and powerful corporations, and make us feel guilty about receiving social benefits for our labors.

      Ya feel good about being played for a fool by the GOP?

      • http://www.poorgrandchildren.com Poorgrandchildren

        Don’t tell me to copy others “in the industrialized World” until you show me one of them more successful than we used to be before we recently started copying their socialism and fascism.

        I advocate the Fair Tax, and we would then have no need to hammer on our tax code to control our activities in “socially acceptable” directions.

        I would cut all illegal (unconstitutional) programs starting with the Federal Department of Mis-Education and Indoctrination. I know it is un-American, but why not try freedom? Try vouchers.

        • Eddie47d

          Poorgrandchildren; Vouchers and open enrollment are a good thing but don’t kid yourself about the cost. Someone is paying dearly for that too.One side looses money and the other “side” gains.

          • Bruce D.

            The teachers who are better at what they do and care more win and that encourages others who do to do care to do better or quit the teaching profession. The union is the only thing keeping many of these teachers from getting fire and that is hurting education.

      • infantryweasel

        The poor don’t pay income tax… they get refunds when they file. I’m not saying this is wrong, merely pointing out that your, “the middle class and poor are paying for the privilege” comment is disingenuous at best.

        • Jovianus

          Yo weasel…as you stated, they receive refunds. Which means they paid more in taxes and are entitled to get some back because they overpaid according to their tax bracket.

          You guys can try and cut it any way you want..facts are facts. We are giving the wealthy and Big Corporations a hige break and we’re paying for it.

          If you think they pay too much, c’mon…show what industrialized nation gives better tax rates to the wealthy. If ours is so bad…show us which is better.

          • Mick

            Jovianus says:
            April 18, 2011 at 8:19 am

            Yo weasel…as you stated, they receive refunds. Which means they paid more in taxes and are entitled to get some back because they overpaid according to their tax bracket.

            You guys can try and cut it any way you want..facts are facts. We are giving the wealthy and Big Corporations a hige break and we’re paying for it.

            If you think they pay too much, c’mon…show what industrialized nation gives better tax rates to the wealthy. If ours is so bad…show us which is better
            ****************************************************
            Jovianus,,,,,,,,,,You obviously not up to date with the earned income credit that would make you ignorant on this issue.

            ” The earned income credit is a refundable tax credit designed for lower income working families and individuals. The amount of the credit varies depending on your level of income and how many dependents you support. The tax credit can even generate a tax refund larger than the amount of tax paid in through withholding. “

          • SMILEE

            TO: Jovianus says:
            April 18, 2011 at 8:19 am

            You are 100% right on Big Corps and the wealthy not paying their fair share but in addition to getting refunds due to excess withholdings, the working poor and some middle class also get an earned income credit which is nothing more that a wage subsidy that the corporate lobbies lobbied for so they also do not have to pay living wages. in addition many are eligible for food stamps and child care subsidies and some even medicaid and still working full time. The minimum wage would have to be doubled for a single person to have a living wage and tripled for a family of four. This is due to lobbing efforts of the big corp as they do not want people going to the unions to accomplish a living wage as they did when the poor and middle class did in the thirties when their backs where against the wall and in addition they have lobbied to make it almost impossible for employees to organize a uniion. If you unions where stronger today we would again have more living wages and less welfare programs by names other that welfare which would be in effect a massive cut in spending for the government. BIG corps and the wealthy in addition to tax breaks and unfair taxes also benefit from the government picking up the tab for wages and benefits in the form of subsidies to the working poor and middle class. RARELY IS THIS FACT TALKED ABOUT and it contributes big time to the deficit. The corporations wants this and our medical coverages to remain as is as it gives them enormous control over their employees which greatly limits the freedoms and liberty of our citizens.

          • Ruby

            I’ve done a little tax form preparation a time or two (short forms are basic arithmetic). Most “poor” people qualify for the EIC (earned income credit), if not all. That credit alone makes their refund jump exponentially…and way more than what they paid throughout the year. Then there’s the child care credit, and other credits that benefit the “poor”. They take their vacations back to their countries of origin, buy another car or new wardrobe…all on my “middle class” taxes that I don’t get back because I don’t qualify for those credits.

            Contrarily, I usually pay more at the end of the year.

          • infantryweasel

            Jovianus i think i replied on the wrong thread… its been a long week with no rest.

            Cheers

          • kkflash

            OK. Smart aleck. Check out this weblink: http://www.deloitte.com/assets/Dcom-Global/Local%20Assets/Documents/Tax/dtt_corporate_tax_rates_2011.pdf

            US Corporations have higher tax rates than ALL but THREE of the top 150 industrialized nations. Still think US Corp’s pay too little?

          • Eddie47d

            As Ruby pointed out our tax code is sometimes self defeating. There is a perception about the poor and also about the wealthy much of which is true.Neither side doesn’t want to blink and loose their benefits. While the straight Middle Class is boxed in (as opposed to the upper middle class). All benefits for everyone should be on the table including tax shelters.

          • barbm

            as i stated above, the poor don’t just not pay taxes. the govt gives them 3 times what they paid in plus the amount they did pay in back. why should the govt reward people for working?

          • http://?? Joe H.

            jovianus,
            My next door neighbor got about 500.00 more than he paid in last year, now tell me how he only got what he paid in back????

          • patty

            Eddie47 – I believe that the rich don’t pay, the poor don’t pay, so isn’t that playing “both sides against the middle”?

      • Lewis Munn

        Ya feel good about Obama welshing on his promises to get elected? Things like openness?

      • dave

        Just a whack at your blog – PP,founded by pro-abort Margaret Sanger (originator of the phrase “killing the weeds (blacks) in the garden of humanity”, primarily built in black neighborhoods, and operating without the benefit of inspections (at least slaughterhouses have this oversight) should continue to operate on the public dime. Might also add that Muslims aren’t part of their equation, are “growing like weeds” (pun intended), and converting to the point that soon that sound you hear five times/day will be from a minaret built as part of a victory mosque near you.
        The scimitar knows no political party, religion (except Islam), and doesn’t bother to give you your Miranda rights; ask the wife of the Muslim TV producer killed by her husband, the delivered souls of “honor killings” and others whose company you’ll join as an Infidel (Christian or not). Sound inviting??

      • http://www.diyyardandhome.com Dan

        Who are you calling a fool? I didn’t notice anyone calling you names? Is that all you left wing wackos can resort to? What you say makes no sense nor does it indicate you even read what I wrote nor that you have a clue about who created the loop holes for businesses who offshore their work and profits.

      • http://none ralph herman

        While some have good ideas there are many who won’t get off the stump or stay on the subject.The piece was good and pointed out facts that most comments over looked or failed to comprehend about the FED and printing money.

        Many companies in the Asian Rim ship their products to Central America where they have a branch and change the paper work and send the ship to an American Port and it is duty free,NAFTA,no import taxes.The original country like China collects an export tax.Yet another tax break for big business for not having jobs here.Though manufactured off shore many are inspected and repacked and MADE IN THE USA???FRAUD??? most fowl.

        On cutting spending start with the three branches and cut them all,after all it is called PUBLIC SERVICE.They should not profit so greatly as some have and start freezing wages at all levels,close tax loopholes for the rich and multinational corperations.

      • kkflash

        “And we, the Middle Class and the poor, are paying for their privileges of living in our society. It’s about time they quit freeloading on our backs and pay up their fair share.”

        YOU are dumber than rocks. Did you not notice that even the lying government statistics agree that the poor are paying NOTHING. Half the people are paying NOTHING in taxes. Many are getting back more than they paid in. And those backs you think the upper class is riding… can’t be true. You can’t ride someone’s back if they’re laying on it.

      • Robin from Arcadia, IN

        Jovi… Fair Tax… How many times do you have to hear about it before you get it? You want the wealthy to pay more? Fair Tax. And yes, the poor in many cases get a refund and not because they overpaid. Have you ever heard of the earned income credit? Been there, done that.

      • Thamera

        Jovi do you pay attention to any of the responses to your questions! They have been answered over and over and quite factually as well. You are blind my friend. How does it feel to be played by the MSM and liberal liars?

    • kkflash

      The tipping point has been reached for sure. Today S&P revised its outlook for the US Gov’s AAA credit rating from stable to negative. The economic crash has begun.

      • Thamera

        Yes, I just heard that today. Isn’t that great news??? (note the saracasm) All I can say is that people like Jovi and Sherri better start paying attention…

        • http://?? Joe H.

          Thamera,
          don’t forget karolyn on that one!!!

      • patty

        Yes, but the white house played it down and said no one should put much stock into that assessment. Anyone notice what the stock market did today after the announcement? http://johnrlott.blogspot.com/2011/04/white-house-attacks-s-rating-as.html

    • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Michael

      Bottom line people. The people in Wash are all sleeping in the same bed. They don’t want us to pull out of this, this didn’t happen by accident. It’s all a means to the end and that is the objective. Once America is out of the way. NWO is here to stay! We have been taken over without firing a shot!!!!!!

      • Robin from Arcadia, IN

        Michael… What you say is true. There is only one thing that can save us now. We need to be on our knees repenting! God will be all we have left.

      • patty

        Or vote Tea Party/Libertarian until they are the majority.

  • http://none Karl Larsen

    Same old things. The rich get more rich, the poor stay that way, and our elected leaders form informal groups and follow the group lead, which has zero to do with what they said they would do.

    I see nothing but problems for the Feds this year because there simply is not that much money available! If they are not careful we will become broken again for real and have a failed government.

    • Lewis Munn

      We have a failed government NOW. They are not keeping their promises, and using smoke and mirrors to even made it look slightly decent, when it is a lie.

      Where are the recall petitions?

    • patty

      Karl – Unless they run out of paper and ink, they will just print more and more.

  • Bernard England III

    I have said this all along and not only big corp. getting it, the people on public aid who do not work or work very little get a nice refund. I know of one that paid in a total of $ 11.00 in taxes and received over $ 500.00 back in refund, while my wife and I paid in over $ 7,000.00 and received under $1,500 back. Another instance a person on SSAN Disability, non-working gets over $ 2,000.00 back.Those of us that do work are supporting these non-workers and the Gov’t is giving them more of our hard earned money. I can see why we have 3rd generation public aidders. The people that have worked all their lives and go on SSAN and Medicare have paid their dues and get the least. What is wrong w/this?

    • Mick

      Bernard England III says:
      April 18, 2011 at 7:23 am
      I have said this all along and not only big corp. getting it, the people on public aid who do not work or work very little get a nice refund. I know of one that paid in a total of $ 11.00 in taxes and received over $ 500.00 back in refund, while my wife and I paid in over $ 7,000.00 and received under $1,500 back. Another instance a person on SSAN Disability, non-working gets over $ 2,000.00 back.Those of us that do work are supporting these non-workers and the Gov’t is giving them more of our hard earned money. I can see why we have 3rd generation public aidders. The people that have worked all their lives and go on SSAN and Medicare have paid their dues and get the least. What is wrong w/this?
      ******************************

      Bernard,, You are positively correct,,No matter which way you look at this issue it all boils down to screwing the people who make the effort to take care of their own.
      Surely we have some poor people down on their luck but we have many more simply abusing the system at our expense and the liberals are encouraging this bad behavior by continuously awarding them more benefits without even checking the status of their affairs.
      If people receive money from the tax payers they should be obligated to give up some of their privacy to be checked and make sure that the money they receive goes to necessities instead of luxury.

      • Jovianus

        Ummmm….hate ta tell you this, but everyone receives some sort of subsidy from the government…most of all the wealthy and Big Corporations. You really think they’ll allow their paid GOP puppets to allow the truth to come out? Yeah…and you’re smoking something kore tha tobacco if you believe that will happen

        • Bruce D.

          Now we are getting somewhere Jovainus. Why don’t you list what you are getting so we know exactly where some of our tax dollars are being wasted.

          • Jovianus

            Same ones you receive there Sparky.

          • Bruce D.

            And which ones might thoses be Jovianus?

          • DaveH

            Judging by Jovianus’s grammar, my bet would be that he knows better, but is trying to double-speak and otherwise mislead those who don’t. And he probably is either in the Political Class or otherwise feeding at the trough (Government Worker, disability recipient, etc.).

          • Eddie47d

            Come on Bruce,Dave H. and Jovianius all that talk about wanting someone else to divulge their salaries and taxes paid is silly and a baited question. How about investments? If you’re not willing to kiss and tell on someone elses lifestyle or salary then don’t bring it up. I did mention my yearly pension last year and low and behold nobody else jumped in. People are always curious and accusing of others but won’t lay out their side of the equation.

          • Bruce D.

            Jovianus brought it up Eddie. I just did the follow up question. We all know you feed at the troff Eddied and would like a bigger piece of someone else’s pie.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Eddie,
            Besides that, we only have your WORD that what you posted was truthful!!! how do we know that you aren’t 25 years old and collecting welfare???

          • Bruce D.

            I think Eddie is who he says he is. Like Jovianus he has no shame when it comes to demanding and/or begging that the rich give them their money. They seemed to have convinced themselves they are entitled to take from others that which they were unable to earn for themselves. They are trying to elevate their degraded behavior to the level of acceptability so they do not have to confront their own level of i.

          • Eddie47d

            More ignorant comments from Joe and Bruce. I seldom expect the truth from Joe and maybe an extra helping of spin from Bruce.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Yeah, eddie I learned real well……FROM YOU!!!!!

        • kkflash

          You sound just like all the Dem Congress(wo)men during last week’s budget debate, calling it a subsidy and a tax cut when the government DOESN’T raise tax rates on corporations. When are all the liberals going to understand that all the money, all the property, everything first belongs to the people. Only with the consent of the governed, does the government have a right to one penny of it; and even then only for the express purposes enumerated in the Constitution.

        • Macawma

          Wrong, Ahole, I do not receive ANY subsidies from this government, never have, never will.

  • Jeryl

    We need to bring our troops home from all combat areas, reduce our foreign military installations, then put some of our elite troops on the border. Cut down the government through retirement attrition, moving around people with similar skills to replace the departed. In addition, close down several departments (starting with the Dept. of Education). There are so many common sense ways to cut spending, but the truth is that the elite will never do that, including the Republicans. I’m absolutely sick of politicians in general. We have a lot more house cleaning to do.

    • KC

      Good on ya Jeryl…my thoughts exactly…we can start with Speaker Bohner and then start working our way on down through the House then start with the senate and then the whore house ahhh sorry that was meant to be the white house….then clean out the judical and start kicking out all czars…did I miss anything?

      • Lewis Munn

        Hairy Reid should go first. He’s only there due to sudden last moment voting, and “repairs” to the voting machines!!

      • Dennis

        Yeah, you did. We can start with Obama.

    • DickMO

      You’re on the right track Jeryl! Now you’re bringing up some of the proposals that Ron Paul has been advocating for years. We need to go to a consumption tax – the Fair tax – or in the interim a Flat tax – as a step towards the ultimate which would be the Fair tax. I would like to see Ron Paul as the Treasury Secretary in the next administration. he wants to abolish the Fed Reserve and the IRS.

      • DaveH

        A true Flat Tax would be far superior to any other systems. I’m not talking about the Flat Rate Tax which many have mis-named the “flat tax”. I’m talking about every adult being liable for the same dollar amount. And those who couldn’t pay, due to circumstances beyond their control, would be the ones who had to spend their time jumping through the paperwork hoops. The rest of us could cut the check and get on with our lives. The Political Class doesn’t want that, because then people (with more skin in the game) would start voting more wisely and expecting less Government and more efficient Government.

      • Les Koether

        I agree wholeheartedly!! If the Fair Tax plan is implemented as Neal Boortz suggests, it would be a win-win situation, and it would eliminate a lot of our current problems. My only concern is that our terrible Congress would just raise the consumption tax rate whenever they want to spend more. Don’t know how to fix that unless any increase would have to be voted on by American citizens. Unfortunately, with all the corruption, back room deals, etc., I do not trust my Congress persons to make that decision.
        I firmly believe we do not have a revenue problem. We have a spending problem!! A fair tax plan would not solve the spending problem. Resolving that problem, as painful as it will be for ALL, is necessary for us to keep our country. That may not happen until we find a LEADER as President, and principled, uncorruptible, constitutional members of Congress. The odds are not in my favor that this will ever happen, but I always have hope.

      • kkflash

        What really kills me is the political double-speak our elected representatives use when they talk about cuts. They haven’t cut anything for decades. They call it a “significant” cut when they reduce the previous budget’s planned increase to only 90% of that increase. It’s like a guy who can only afford a Chevy applying for a loan to buy a Mercedes, and calling it a cutback when he gets turned down for the Mercedes and buys a Jaguar instead.

  • http://aol.com sean murrey

    i think we better do some more house cleaning with the gop.If dont do as you are told you will be fire.

    • Lewis Munn

      Gotta clean up all the demos first… Get rid of all their Union ties, and smoke-filled rooms and legislation too big to read before it is passed in the wee hours!

  • http://www.poorgrandchildren.com Poorgrandchildren

    Unconstitutional equals illegal, and funding unconstitutional activities are illegal acts committed by our DC employees every day. We need to fire some more to get their attention. Only then will they see how easy it is to balance the budget just by obeying the law–the Constitution.

    • SMILEE

      What unconstitutional activities are you talking about????????????? DO YOU EVEN KNOW??????????

      • DaveH

        For those who would like to see the only powers that the Constitution gives to Federal Government, see here (section 8, in particular):
        http://www.cato.org/constitution/article1_en.html

        • DaveH

          And before some Liberal tries to mislead you with the “Welfare Clause”, the truth is that when the Founders said “general welfare of the United States” they were saying that the enumerated powers couldn’t be used to benefit only certain parties. In other words, they wanted equal protection under the law (no favoritism).
          The Commerce “clause” was intended to prevent the States from protecting their own industries by restricting commerce between the States with such things as tariffs, discriminatory sales taxes, etc.
          The Commerce “clause” has been misused by Federal Government to rationalize all sorts of powers which were not really given to them in the Constitution:
          http://reason.org/news/show/the-amazing-elastic-commerce-clause

          For those who want to learn, there are many more articles on this subject at mises.org, reason.org, and cato.org. Just type “Commerce Clause” into their local search field, and start reading.

          • kkflash

            Thanks, DH, for helping to spread the truth.

          • DaveH

            And thank you, kkflash, for the same.

  • Bob

    The only acceptable budget is a budget that is balanced by slashing government to the bone instead of raising taxes. Do away with welfare, EEO, the Labor Department, and the Department of Education. Then end foreign aid, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan,defund the UN, Planned Parenthood, NPR, and NPS. Then fire half the government employeees and outlaw governemnt unions. Then seal the borders and eject all illegal immigrants, After these things are done, take a breath and see what else needs to be cut. If we don’t have the guts to do these things, we will become another third world socialist pig sty.

    • Mick

      Bob,,, All the things you have enumarated should be on the chopping block and fast.You are absolutely right and we both know that more programs will have to follow as well, maybe then the populace would get a clue on how to take care of themselves and regain some of the lost integrity America needs to survive.

    • kkflash

      Right on!

  • gram

    PEOPLE, YOU HAVE GOT TO GET OUT AND SEE “ATLAS SHRUGGED”….
    EVEN THOUGH THIS BOOK WAS WRITTEN OVER 50 YEARS AGO BY AYN RAND,
    WE ARE LIVING THIS MOVIE TODAY…..
    THE ONLY EXPLANATION I CAN COME UP WITH IS THAT SHE KNEW OR OVER
    HEARD SOMEONE TALKING ABOUT THE ONE WORLD ORDER THEN…. NOTHING
    ELSE MAKES SENSE…
    ALSO, I BELIEVE ALLEN WEST IS OUR NEXT GEORGE WASHINGTON….
    START PAYING ATTENTION TO THIS MAN….. I HAVE SEEN EVERY VIDEO
    THAT I CAN FIND, AND I CAN ONLY SAY, IF HE DEBATED OBAMA FOR THE
    PRESIDENCY, OBAMA WOULD BE EATING HIS LUNCH IN ABOUT 5 MINUTES…
    WAKE UP AMERICA, GET OFF YOUR AZZES, NOW, TIME IS NOT ON OUR SIDE..

    • Lastmanstanding

      gram…go spend $15 bucks on Rothschild Money Trust by George Armstrong. He wrote it in 1940. The bastards (nwo)that are pulling the strings now have been at it since the Revolutionary War.

      If fact, read 100 pages and that will probably be enough!!!

      The US Constitution is the ONLY way out of this bs.

      I feel for any of you today that have to write a check to these bastards…I am one of you…”I’m tired of this s–t, and I’m not taking it anymore!!!”

    • dave

      I concur with your assessment of LtC A. West; I’ve not heard anyone including “the Donald” talk about Islam, it’s doctrine based on the Qu’ran, the Hadith, and other writings and it’s 14 Centuries of being eternally offended by any and everything but Islam. “The Donald” seems to be catering to the Right with his pursuit of the eligibility issue; he really is trying to side track us for the rest of this train wreck having contributed significantly to the Democrats. It ain’t all black and white and it still comes down to personally vetting via checking voting records, affiliations, and listening to talk radio (www.vcyamerica [my favorite],www.wnd.clm, the Drudge Report, and if you can get past the religious issues of Glenn Beck (he’s Mormon) and others plus websites from the UK.
      In short, devote half as much time to this as you do the the Stanley Cup Playoffs, the Final Four, and the Super Bowl (plus NASCAR, etc) and our country might stand a chance.

      • Bob

        Correct – sports has become the “bread and circuses” of the ignorant masses and don’t think that reducing us to mindless sports addicts isn’t part of the lieberal puppet master’s master plan. It is time to wake up from our stupor and take this country back from the lieberal degenerates like jovial anus and the rest of the parasites of the left. If we don’t, we will become like the soma-drugged slaves of “Brave New World”.

        • Eddie47d

          Bob; Liberals are pushing sport addiction on America. LOL! Never heard that one before. I would say sports figures get paid way too much for the work they do and are arrogant in many cases. They are a part of American greed 101 and I suppose that could be liberal or conservative.

          • Bruce D.

            I would say you are the greedy one Eddie. You and Jovianus are the ones looking for money you did not earn.

          • DaveH

            Actually, Eddie, if you took off those green-colored glasses for awhile and paid attention, you would know that the countries with the worst economies have always heavily promoted and subsidized their sports figures (USSR, China, Cuba, etc.).

          • Eddie47d

            Stick it Bruce! I’ve earned every penny I’ve got you damn little liar.

          • patty

            Eddie47 – Bruce isn’t saying or implying that you didn’t earn the money you have. He is saying your liberal ideology wants everyone to pay for things that should be paid for personally by the ones using the service. Our gov’t. forces people to pay for things that they (the gov’t.) should not be funding. You agree that those items should be paid by the gov’t. Most posting here do not agree with that ideology.

    • http://www.diyyardandhome.com Dan

      I agree with you but quit shouting.

    • DaveH

      Gram,
      Ayn Rand didn’t need to be prescient. She lived it in Russia, the birthplace of the failed Socialist policies.
      Quote from Ayn Rand “I am not primarily an advocate of capitalism, but of egoism; and I am not primarily an advocate of egoism, but of reason. If one recognizes the supremacy of reason and applies it consistently, all the rest follows.”

    • Thamera

      Or like Gram suggested go see Atlas Shrugged or read it, those of you who continually espouse entitlements, tax increases and more government intrusion forced upon our daily lives. As for spending and credit, it should be of great concern for everyone that the S&P just downgraded our countries credit rating…

    • barbm

      looks like most of allen west’s experience is with the military. what exactly is it you think makes him so great? i like gary johnson, former gov of n.m.. wonder if the dems will be running anybody against o.

      • kkflash

        I hope not. After 4 years of his lies, he should be easily defeatable.

        • patty

          Unfortunatley, don’t count on that. I am sure there will be some disaster imagined or real that only he can fix. And the sheeple will follow him off of the cliff one last time.

  • Carlucci

    Did anyone posting from the libtard looney left actually read and comprehend this article? Here’s the takeaway once again:

    Bob Livingston said: “But I’ve told you before that taxes are not designed to raise revenue for the government. Income taxes have three purposes: To control and redistribute the volume of money, to direct the behavior of people and corporations and to keep a dossier on all citizens.

    “But what about the debt?” you might ask. To which I would reply, “What debt?” There is none. If the Federal government can print money to infinity, how can there be debt? That word is doublespeak designed to keep you enslaved to the elites and moneychangers.
    Think about it. If you had a machine that could crank out legal tender in whatever amount needed to pay off your debts, would you have any debt? Of course not. And neither does the U.S. government. It is the biggest Ponzi scheme in the history of the world. Yet it’s Bernie Madoff who sits in jail.”

    Get it? There is no “debt”. It is a phantom. It is a ledger entry.
    How can you have “debt” when the money system is a fake? Doesn’t that make the “debt” fake, too?

    We have to get back to the U.S. Mint issuing the currency, and totally abolish the PRIVATE Federal Reserve. The private central bankers are killing us, and that is their intention. The IRS is the collection agency for the private Federal Reserve; another two headed monster on the same body. And as others have already pointed out, slashing Fedzilla at least 50 percent is the next step.

    • Dingle

      Talking about trillions of dollars; the government is not just printing fake money. Remember, the Federal Reserve is not government, it is private. Money is authorized to be printed by the government. The Federal Reserve sends a request to the Dept of Treasury to print it. For that request, the Federal Reserve gets a commission on the amount requested. Then when money is loaned out, they get interest on that money again. Can you imagine how much money that is before it even gets distributed in the banking system?

      Where has all of that money gone?

    • Suzette

      Federal Reserve = Rothchilds……THEY will never let that happen (the US Mint). Like it or not, the Rothchilds own us and they WILL call the shots.

    • kkflash

      I agree with you about the Federal Reserve, but I don’t agree with you or Livingston about the debt being unreal. Just ask the Chinese and Japanese if they think it’s real. Ask them how they feel about being repaid the several trillion they loaned us in dollars that aren’t worth a fart. Over half the debt is owned by US citizens and institutions. Ask them is they’d like to be repaid with $8 trillion dollars that won’t buy a loaf of bread. See the Weimar republic for a historical example of this.

      • Carlucci

        Well then, what so you suggest using to pay the Chinese and Japanese back with? More worthless FRNs?

        • kkflash

          That is the point, Carlucci. We’re devaluing the dollar so fast, that we’ll be paying all the US bondholders back with worthless FRNs.

          • Thamera

            Exactly kkflash!

          • http://?? Joe H.

            kkflash,
            Pay the Chinese back with those worthless FRNs and THEN close down the Fed!!! They been screwing us for awhile, now it’s our turn!!

    • DaveH

      Carlucci,
      “the US mint issuing the currency”? You don’t think we might be jumping from the frying pan into the fire? Now if you said abolish the Federal Reserve and let the Government issue only hard currency (coins, or paper backed by hard assets, preferably coins made of precious metals), then I would agree 100%.

      • Carlucci

        Well, if I understand it correctly, the federal government is supposed to coin and issue the money. The mint still coins the money, but the private Fed issues worthless fiat “currency” that is backed by nothing except debt. Federal Reserve Note = a debt, because a note is a debt
        (like a car note). I meant to say what you said about the hard currency, but had no time to elaborate as I was late for an appointment. But I agree with you 100%. The biggest problem we all face is getting rid of the Federal Reserve.

  • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Sheila

    I think all the old guard Democrats and Republicans need to go!!
    I want you to know: In the first 19 months of the Obama administration, the federal debt held by the public increased by $2.5260 trillion. If he follows this same course it would add another 3 trillion to the debt. That would be 6 trillion in four years!
    Bush in 8 years acculated 7.6 trillion with two wars and tarp.

  • Tom

    I want to ask all of you who favor the “fair tax” a question. Who collects the “fair tax”? Is it the guy who sells retail? How would you like to be trying to make a living selling retail, and then being responsible to carefully collect the taxes needed to run this bloated government. Not me. I do a little internet selling. If I am burdened with collecting any more than the little sales tax I already collect, I’m done with selling retail. When Europe tried the “flat tax” it created the black market…and corruption. Is that what we want?

    • Stephan F.

      Implementing the so-call “fair tax” is a government bureaucrat’s dream come true. And it carries with it so many obvious negative consequences it boggles the mind. These are quite easy to see if you simply stop and do a little analysis. To top it off, it’s guaranteed to become just another bloated bureaucratic nightmarish boondoggle, and I really don’t think we need anymore of those.

      But one of the worse features proponents never tell you about is this little fact (probably because even they don’t realize it): Suppose the rate is set at “only” 15% — great. Now, when you go to the store to buy that pack of gum you normally pay $1.00 for, it now costs you $1.15. Right? Well, it’s actually worse than that but for sake of brevity I want to make this one simple point, which is: if you have any savings based in dollars (who doesn’t?), I’m sorry to tell you but they have just become devalued by 15%! Get it? Your entire savings in dollars are instantly now worth 15% less!! And this is fair (or even moral)? You decide.

      • victoria blood

        Stephan F. you are seriously wrong about the fair tax. It is fair and HONEST. every time someone in this country produces something for sale here they include in the price of that item the costs of producing it. When you buy this you are paying their taxes, plus the costs of the tax preparers and the taxes paid by everyone else on the supply side of this. It’s ridiculous. Instituting the fair tax will bring down the cost of everything. A pack of gum would only be taxed once. You would expect to be paying a resonable .25+ tax for that pack of gum again.

        • DaveH

          Some reality:
          http://mises.org/daily/1814

          Mind you, I literally hate the Byzantine Income Tax System. But the Fair Tax is not the answer to our problems.

        • Stephan F.

          Sorry V.B., but your arguments (along with Bob’s) are completely specious.

          I, too, highly desire a different tax system than the current fraud we have to deal with. And almost anything else would be an improvement. But the “fair tax” ? — not – even – close.

          p.s. you might just talk me into the flat tax scheme though. It too is an indignity, but much “fairer” than the fair tax boondoggle.

          Best Regards

        • kkflash

          One thing I do like about the value added tax (the term “Fair” tax is presumptuous): It’s harder to fake since it’s based on the selling price of goods/services. The biggest problem with the income tax is defining net income; the flat tax has the same problem. To avoid the VAT, you pretty much have to fraudulently fail to report the transaction i.e. the black market. All tax systems have that problem – unreported transactions. The VAT has lots of problems too, but it’s better than what we have now.

      • Bob

        I understand the Fairtax better than over 99% of the people out there. I’m a CPA and have studied the Fairtax question for many years. Here is how it works:

        Every good or service you buy has taxes included in the price. The suppliers of the raw materials pay taxes, the wholesalers pay taxes, the truckers pay taxes, the retailers and so on, plus the cost of compliance, estimated at over $700 billion per year. You get the picture. When all the irs taxes are taken out, prices will drop. According to Lawrence Kotlicoff, the famed Boston University economist, prices will drop an average of 22%. So an item or service that is now priced at $100 will drop, on average, to $78 and then we add $23 back in for sales tax so the government gets the same amount as they do now in taxes, we get a new price of $101. That is close to the original price of $100.

        Now to your paycheck. If you make $1,000 a week now, you might take home $700 a week. Under the Fairtax you would take home &1,000 a week minus any deductions like health insurance.

        The taxes would be spread out to ALL people, including the underground economy and the 40-50 million visitors to the US each year.

        Now the big plus for the Fairtax. Princeton University did a study on the Fairtax and asked 500 of the biggest companies based in Europe or Japan what they would do when the US enacts the Fairtax. About 400 said they would build their next manufacturing plant in the US. The other 100 said they would move their entire operations here. What would that do for our manufacturing base?

        Back to that $100 item above, it will drop to $78. We will then sell it overseas for $78 not $100. What will that do for manufacturing?

        Everyone will get a tax rebate for the sales tax up to the poverty level so that the poor won’t pay taxes, similar to the the EITC today.

        As you can see the Fairtax is far superior to the current plan and eliminates the IRS and all those stupid forms. It will be much easier to comply with and every income class comes out ahead. The economy accelerates, every study has shown a minimum of 10% growth under the Fairtax. The more you study it, the more you see that we MUST enact the Fairtax. Call you representative and Senators to enact HR25 and S13.

        • Robin from Arcadia, IN

          Bob… Thank you! You said it better than I ever could. I support the Fair Tax. I want to see if happen. Abolish the IRS!

          • DaveH

            Bob says “So an item or service that is now priced at $100 will drop, on average, to $78 and then we add $23 back in for sales tax so the government gets the same amount as they do now in taxes, we get a new price of $101. That is close to the original price of $100.”

            Sounds like a Politician’s promise to me, Bob. Until it is actually enacted, nobody really has any idea what the effects will be. The net gain I could see would be that fewer IRS (or whatever they then call themselves) would be needed so their former employees would be put to work in the productive private sector. And who knows whether the accountants formerly involved in accounting for income taxes would be offset by the new accountants needed for calculating the sales tax payments to the Government.
            Why do you suppose prices would drop? Prices might go down initially as people resisted buying due to sticker shock, but once they got used to the new form of taxation, the market prices would adjust back to supply and demand.
            The lack of Government prodding you to invest their way would be a plus for sure, but we have no guarantees they wouldn’t soon start hanging similar baggage on the Fair Tax System. And if you were right, and there was a new-found prosperity, the Government would quickly find ways to soak up that new wealth.
            Our main problem is not the type of Tax system. It is the amount of Government Spending that is killing this country.

          • DaveH

            Here is an exhaustive analysis of consumption taxes in general by Economist Murray Rothbard:
            http://mises.org/daily/1768

          • kkflash

            I’m not sure I believe the Kolticoff price drop calculations either. While those setting the price for goods they produce would not have to add in the cost of income taxes, they’d be paying more for all the raw materials because of the consumption tax added on. Seems like a wash to me.

          • DaveH

            More on the Fair Tax:
            http://mises.org/daily/1975

        • Macawma

          Excellent summary, Bob. Thanks so much!

      • Robin from Arcadia, IN

        Stephan… It is my understanding that what you earn you keep. No more taxes taken from your check. And no more property taxes either. It works out that everybody pays the same percentage. You pay more if you buy more, less if you buy less.

        • kkflash

          I don’t think property taxes would go away with the Fair Tax as property taxes are state/county/local level taxes and the Fair Tax is federal.

    • kkflash

      I think you’re confusing the “fair” or “flat” tax with the “value added” tax that most of Europe uses. Flat tax is an income tax and VAT is a consumption or sales tax.

  • Mick

    Jovianus says:
    April 18, 2011 at 8:22 am
    Ummmm….hate ta tell you this, but everyone receives some sort of subsidy from the government…most of all the wealthy and Big Corporations. You really think they’ll allow their paid GOP puppets to allow the truth to come out? Yeah…and you’re smoking something kore tha tobacco if you believe that will happen
    *****************************

    Jovianus…You keep on insinuating that the people disagreeing with you are on some type of illegal component.
    You definitely profile the type of person who would fart in an elevator looking around to put the blame on someone else…….

    • SMILEE

      You misinterpret Jovianus and your post makes not sense what so ever!!

      • DaveH

        His post makes a lot more sense, Smilee, than yours or Jovianus’s.

        • Mick

          Hey DaveH … Make that HER post but it really doesn’t matter , I always been called a Tom boy…he,,he…

  • David

    Let’s not play the greed and envy game re: corporate taxes. I agree that crony capitalism where big lobbies get preferential treatment codified in law stinks. But we must remember that the owners of those corporations are ultimately citizens like you and me who are asked to pay taxes on the income received from corporate profits. Corporate taxes are another scheme to tax income multiple times in ways that we don’t immediately feel or recognize – somewhat like the withholding tax. While we are at it, what justification is there for an income tax anyway? That socialistic scheme was not enacted in USA until about 100 years ago.

    • kkflash

      Good point, David. When you think about it, one dollar of corporate profit is taxed here in the USA at one of the world’s highest corporate tax rates- 35%, leaving $.65 for the shareholder/owners. If it’s then paid out to the owners, it gets taxed again by both state and federal governments, so lop off another 25% if they are “qualified” dividends (or more if not qualified), leaving $.40 for the owners. If they spend that money in Minnesota, where I live, it costs another 6.5% in sales tax, leaving $.335 to buy the goods or services I want. So, the government gets 2/3 of every dollar of corporate profit and the shareholder/owner gets 1/3. Does that sound fair to you?

      • patty

        kkflash – one correction. MN sales tax rate ranges from the lowest is 6.875 up to 16.275 depending on the county you live in. Not to mention that they are contemplating ANOTHER sales tax for ANOTHER new stadium for ANOTHER loser sports team. Also, if you personally purchase more than 750.00 of product that you did not pay tax on, you are suppose to file a use tax and pay the sales tax yourself. Also, if you buy a loaf of bread in the bread isle it is not taxable, if you buy a loaf from the bakery in Rainbow it is taxable. If you buy a candy bar with nuts or flour in it, it is not taxable. If it is only sugar, chocolate, it is taxable. THAT is how ridiculous our own (MN) tax code is. I swear these people lay in bed at night thinking up was to tax us and make it more confusing which means most don’t comply which leaves EVERYONE open for an audit. Been through a few of those. We could all start smaller and reform our own states tax codes to use as a template for the federal gov’t.

    • DaveH

      You’re right, David, Corporate Income Taxes are just another sneaky way for the Political Class to get more of our money.

      • Bob

        The worst thing about corporate income taxes is that prices have to be increased by the cost of the taxes and the compliance costs, ie accountants, paperwork and irs. Our exports are hurt by those higher prices and everyone here in the US pays higher prices than we should. This is all because of the idiotic class warfare rhetoric that says “corporations must pay their fair share.”

  • Henry Ledbetter

    Does it really matter how we got to got to this low point in history??. Get rid of the IRS with a fair tax, cut out all handouts such as planned parenthood, NPR and all faith based programs.. How much faith is involved in getting a government check?? The true church is better off without government funded faith based programs. Let God be God and true faith will shine forth. The evil of Satan will be exposed and made transparent for all.to see. .

  • Ralph Shufeldt

    Why is it that everyone wants the military cut first? If you read the Constitution the preamble states “We the people, in order to form a more perfect union…….Provide a common defence,”… If we don,t provide the strongest military on earth, capable of quelling conflict rapidly, then, you better think quickly about learning to speak Chinese or Arabic. You’re going to need that skill in order to survive.
    Everything else in the budget should be on the table for reduction or elimination, especially, Harry Reids Cowboy Poetry Convention.

    • Bert Cundle

      Learning Other Languages Will not help much! We are still Known as U.S. Citizan!s… Who has Devistated the Governments elseware

    • kkflash

      Ralph, I’m as fiscally conservative as can be, but I must disagree with you. We spend as much on our military as the rest of the world combined. We have troops stationed in over 150 countries. I believe in having the strongest military on earth, but like everything else controlled by government, it has gotten way out of hand. In our current fiscal mess, we need to include the military in the cut, too.

    • DaveH

      The key word there, Ralph, is “defence”. Being the World’s Policemen has absolutely nothing to do with our defense, and everything to do with Crony Capitalism.

    • patty

      All of you made some really good points. The problem is not cutting defense, it is auditing defense and going after the ones providing the products they purchase. We have all heard the story of the $1k toilet seat. Denfense contractors are making an inflated killing on us just as the legalized drug pushers in the pharm. industry.

  • http://com i41

    See our stock ,arket is off by 200 points because USA is getting a negative credit rating. Atthe same time the idea that Fannie and Freddie are needing to have more bail outs, with borrowed money. Dems still in control and want to keep spending on bs programs. things going to hell in a hand basket, guess the niggardly residences in the WH will need another foreign country vacation and clothes shopping spree.. America has democrap Uncle Ben is printing money by the truck loads, Tax Cheat Geithner, the Wall Street socialist, is spending on any crap program he can see. The marxist muslim moron has not a clue what his czar slubs and the soros socialist dumbocrap cow patties are lying like s–t on a rock, and going along. They all are sending USA down the drain, to a EU or worse a 3rd world country, so the UN can control us totally. When the investors say don’t buy a house rent there is more problems coming.

    • Jovianus

      I know I know..after beating off a Depresion, restoring economic growth, having the stock market rebound back to respectable levels, reversing the economic slam in jobh growth inherited from the previous administration, and tckling the inequities of having the middle class and poor pay for the wealthy and Big Corporation…you’re blaming a drop in the market to this admin’s policies. Wouldn’t have anything to do with the insane Ryan/GOP budget proposal, or the threats by the GOP to carry out their economic mismanagement by not increasing the debt ceiling…nawww…nothing at all to do with those eh?

      Jeesh .

      Best thing for this country would be to have the GOP go on permenent vacation and let the Dems and Progresives restore this Union to its former greatness before Reagan screwed us and also let the criminal elemnets come into our government.

      • Bob

        Anus: The criminal element is the scumocrat party -the party that has laid waste to most of our big cities, the party that has instituted the fraud-filled and useless welfare system, the party that has destroyed the integrity of our educational system, the party that has rigged the elections and committed acts of violence against those who oppose it, the party that has opened our borders to the third world cesspools, the party that gains campaign monies through union extortion, the party that has murdered tens of millions of unborn citizens, and the party that is impoverishing the productive to feed the parasitic. Need I go any further or does all that soak through your thick skull into your empty head?

      • kkflash

        J. Anus: S & P’s negative credit outlook for the US is in fact, partially due to passage of the Ryan budget. Because the new budget doesn’t go far enough in cutting the entitlement spending, S&P was forced to admit we won’t be able to pay back our debt. Up until the new budget was passed, S&P still had hope that the GOP would be able to balance things in our lifetime, but the Dem-controlled Senate and White House wouldn’t go along, so we have a compromised budget that still spends too much and therefore a lower credit rating.

      • DaveH

        “after beating off a Depresion”? They did? More like they created the Economic Calamity with their meddling.

        “having the stock market rebound back to respectable levels”? It has? The higher valuations are the result of many more dollars being created by the Federal Reserve. The dollar is worth less, so it now takes more dollars to buy anything including stocks, thus the higher prices.
        On Feb 1, 2009 the US dollar bought 1.23 Canadian dollars. It now buys
        .96 Canadian dollars.
        On Feb 1, 2009 the US dollar bought 1.57 Australian dollars. It now buys .95 Australian dollars.
        On Feb 1, 2009 the US dollar bought 1.97 New Zealand dollars. It now buys 1.27 New Zealand dollars.
        Get it? Our dollar is worth less now. There goes the purchasing power of our money. Our savings are now worth much less on the world market, than in 2009. Thank you, Obama, for saving us from money — the root of all evil.

        “reversing the economic slam in jobh growth”? Surely you jest, Jovianus. Or, are you just flat out lying? When Obama took office the unemployment rate was 8.1%; the unemployment rate is now 9.5%. That’s reversing? I hope, Jovianus, that you don’t drive your car like you formulate your comments.

        • kkflash

          Absolutely right DaveH. When you adjust for the US dollar devaluation against other currencies, the US stock market, as measured by the S&P 500, has gained nothing in those 2 years. The higher dollar denominated value of those stocks is part of the illusion propagated by Obama and Congress to make the unintelligent think the recession is ending, and that their policies are making things better. Looks like the ruse worked on Jovianus perfectly.

      • patty

        Jovianus – What flavor is your kool-aid today?

      • patty

        Jovianus – It is not because of Obama, it is IN SPITE of Nobama that the economy is snail pacing forward instead of the free fall. It is from the settling of the fall out, which he caused by doubling down on ridiculously bad policies. He has not created any private sector jobs, more of those have been lost. He has only created more gov’t. jobs.

  • don

    Having Obama show a legitimate certified birth certificate should be mandatory. I had to show mine for several government-connected consulting jobs, for my college entrance and for my security clearance! It is already a law, but the Hawaii obfuscation, assisted by the press lets the Manchurian candidate walk. Where are his college records? Did he ever graduate or is he lying about that, like everything else he does? If he is a citizen, prove it and shut everyone up! Why spend millions of dollars and attorney effort to protect something that is not suspicious. If it looks like a duck and walks like a duck——-

    • Bert Cundle

      Birth Cert’s Are Under atack by Illegal alians ADVOCATES!!!

    • Jovianus

      Well Don…only the far right wacked out lunatic fringe is saying Pres. Obama isn’t eligible for the office…

      This is the same element that swallowed the bile the Swift Boaters used against kerry 9shown to be lies), the same element which made up the so-called ‘death panels’ in the recent health care overhaul, and the same element which refuses to discuss the redistribution of wealthh from the Middle Class and Poor to the wealthy and Big Corproations… what’s that tell you?

      • Eddie47d

        The right repeats things so often it becomes the gospel to them whether true or not.Their political chicanery is up there with those on the left and neither side is willing to blink. I’ll never forgive the Swift Boaters and I’m sure there are thing the left has done to deserve scorn too. How far are the extremists willing to takes these issues?

        • S.C.Murf

          Anyone ever notice that when jovbob leaves a comment that fast eddie is right behind him with his also? Maybe jov bob should put some turn signals on his hips soas fast eddie doesn’t break his neck when jovbob turns a corner. By the sounds of your posts jovbob you have been shunned by the business community or you have failed to make it in their world cause you sure got a case of the a$$ at them. What is your story? You still blame just one side when it has been going on by BOTH sides for longer than either of us have been on the face of this earth. You still don’t understand that what it comes down to is good verses evil and their is a lot of both in government. But you are not going to help America out of this mess so go back to feeding from the trough and adding to the mess, THANKS A LOT

        • Thamera

          And your going to tell me that the left doesn’t do the same thing if not more so? They (the left) sure are effective in running people scared!

          • Thamera

            that comment was for Eddie

          • Eddie47d

            Thamera; I did mention the left if you care to pay attention or is that beyond your scope of intelligence?

      • kkflash

        J.anus: “discuss the redistribution of wealthh from the Middle Class and Poor to the wealthy and Big Corproations… what’s that tell you?”

        In what way does the Middle Class and Poor redistribute wealth to the wealthy? Does your idiocy know no end?

        • Bob

          kkflash: I am afraid the disease of lieberalism has destroyed the few brain cells that anus had.

        • Jovianus

          Well there KKFlash…let’s see..when one pays a far less % of income than another simply due to income, when one receives far more benefits than another simply because of having reater income, when one has a growth in income earnings almost triple digit in the last decade and the other is losing earning power…yet the losing side gets hit with more than the other…

          I’d call that income redtistribution wouldn’t you?

          The wealthier 5% are earning more, receiving more and paying less. the Middle Class and poor are just the opposite. And you espouse copntinuing to give the wealthier 5% of income earners more and more, and having the remainder pay more and more to give those bennies.

          To the defnintions espoused on this board, you support socialism via income redistribution. Oh wait..socialism is when the masses receive that redistributed income. When a small favored class takes from the masses to concentrate wealth in a few, that’s called… (here’s a hint, it ain’t called the American Dream)

          • kkflash

            Many on this site have repeated the facts for you, yet you never seem to learn anything. The highest income earners DO NOT pay a lower percentage of their income in taxes than the lowest income earners. In fact, the very lowest income class in this country often pays a negative rate of tax, while the best and brightest pay up to 35% federal tax. Nor do the wealthy receive more benefits from the government than the very lowest income population. The high-income producers get the same police, fire, national defense and roads to drive on that the poor do, but they don’t get WIC, food stamps, AFDC or unemployment checks. In fact, they also pay the SUTA taxes that enable you to get your unemployment check. Your diatribe is so moronic, it’s just no longer worth my time to correct you. Adios.

          • Thamera

            It’s like talking to a brick wall…good grief Jovi

          • Thamera

            Can you really be soooo clueless Jovi about the MASSIVE spending on entitlements in this country or the enormity of the welfare class???

          • patty

            g KK and Tamara. Jovi is baiting and has repeated his own lies so often he truely believes them. Jovi-Just because you believe the lies and inaccuracies you repeat and repeat does not mean that the rest of us are going to fall into that trap. Even with constant FACTS presented to you, you will not get off of your liberal talking points. From now on I think you should sign on as repeat, repeat.

      • Don

        jovi anus, that tells me you are still a lier, just like hussain !

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Jovianus,
        Is that the same kerry that came back from Nam and accused his fellow vets of murdering women and children? ALL OF THEM???? That is a BALD FACED LIE!!!!! He lied then and he lied to get his purple heart, he lied about the rest of the CRAP he spread as well!!

  • Rich

    Jovianus,
    While I do find your posts rather amusing, you might want to throw in some complete truths rather than always using half the story for your logic line. To give you a for instance; you talked about Bush’s unfunded senior prescription plan. You might want to mentiom that there were two drug bills proposed at that time [that was before Pelosi when the minority party was allowed to bring bills to the floor]. One, the Rep proposal had a projected cost of $400 million over ten years and the Dem plan with a projected cost of $1 billion over ten years. The Rep plan was voted into law. If the other plan had won out would you be blaming the Dems for not using fiscal restaint or still trying to hang it on Bush? Oh and since we’re talking, if you had really taken a good econ class you would know that only a small part of the income of the wealthy is subject to tax rates as income. You need to learn a little about capital gains, borrowing against equity, tax favored investments and all the other things that account for the low effective rate that they pay. Maybe you needed more than one econ class.

    • Jovianus

      Rich…I’m not referring to bills that weren’t passed. I’m talkiing about the unfunded prescription bill that was passed. As far as taxes paid by the wealthy…I am fully aware of the myriad deuctions and subsidies available to them. Which is why they pay less taxes than we do as a percentage of income and why they’re living ff our backs…while crying tears all the way to the bank.

      • Rich

        You missed the point again. You are blaming Bush for an unfunded prescription bill. He didn’t propose or pass a bill. The Dems wanted a bigger unfunded liability than what was passed. Why don’t you rant a little about their lack of fiscal responsibility and the fact that what happened over the last two years makes the debt racked up over the last twenty look like peanuts. As for the rich, most of them have their wealth from hard work and use of professional advisors. You have a lot of the tax reduction strategies at your disposal also. It’s a very small group that inherited their money, but those are generally the focus of the left. Oh, and your tax those evil corporations theory: the US has the highest corporate tax rate of any industrialized country. Every time the rate is raised, more jobs and assets move out of the US. If you had a choice of renting a building at $2000/ month or an identical site at $4000/ month, which would you take? If your answer is $4000, then you have the qualifications to sit on the left side of the aisle in Congress.

        • Eddie47d

          Rich; “Most of their wealth comes from hard work” Another LOL moment. Maybe somewhere that is true but I see an awful lot of ponzi schemes amongst them to call that comment credible.

          • kkflash

            Even the folks who inherited their money got it from people whose hard work and intelligence earned that money. And those same people gave all the jobs to the lower/middle classes. If it weren’t for those more skilled, courageous entrepreneurs the lower/middle classes would have nada.

          • Bruce D.

            There you go again Eddie. Greed and lust for other peoples money. You should just admit you are a failure in life for not being able to be happy with what you were able to earn on your own.

          • DaveH

            Ponzi schemes, Eddie? You mean like Social Security that was forced on us by Democrats?

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Gee Eddie, how about some actual examples????

          • Eddie47d

            Dufuss Joe! Hedge Fund mgrs. and the collapsed economy. How soon you forget.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            eddie,
            and it was all caused by Ponzie schemes??? how little you KNOW!!!!

        • Jovianus

          Rich….here’s a telling fact for you. Go forth and look at the top 50 Industrialized antions. Now…ya think a US corporation is going to get a better deal out of any of those than the free ride they get here? On paper, they may “look’ to appear they pay a heavy tax burden…reality is so much different.

          but of course, people who don’t have the ability to think and simply repeat what they are told are usually the ones who parrot the line you did about our corporate tax rates….

  • jopa

    I always hear get rid of the IRS, but they are not the problem.The problem is the lobbiests that have been going to DC and rewriting our tax laws and creating loopholes.The top 400 earners in the US made an average of $345 million last year and with their deductions paid an average of 17% in taxes.You and I pay much more than that.If everyone paid there fair share we wouldn’t be in such a bind today.Cut out all of the corporate welfare and make lobbying illegal.

    • Bob

      More misdirection – we need to cut government spending, not raise taxes. besides that, many tax-dodgers are lieberals who support maobama. I wonder how much lieberal propagandist Michael Moore and Orca, the big fat lieberal talk show whale pay in taxes?

      • Jovianus

        Let’s cut spending by increasng revenues. Take away to subsidies to the wealthy and Big Corporations. Let’s see what we have then to del with. Any bets we don’t have much of a budget deficit after that?

        Or are you advocating a socialist agenda by redistribution of wealth? Which is what we have now…wealth taken from the Middle Class and redistributed to the wealthy …which does us no good except increase the tab the Middle Class has to pay, chokes off economic growth, and costs jobs.

        • Bob

          There is no reason why the wealthy should be taxed more than anyone else. They do not receive more from the government, therefore they should not pay more. The simple fact is much of the middle class is composed of union drones and government leeches, therefore it is also largely parasitic. Your simpleton’s ploy to paint those who see no reason to expand revenues (thus expanding government) through taxation as being socialistic is as transparent as the air between your ears. I have still not heard any replies to the lieberals regarding whether or not you want to increase the taxes of parasitic,wealthy, lieberal scum like Gates, Soros, Orca the killer whale (aka Oprah), John Edwards, Al Gore and most of the parasites of hollywood; what do you intend to do with their taxes?

          • Bob

            I meant to say “from the lieberals” instead of “to the lieberals” in regards to raising taxes on the wealthy lieberals.

          • Jovianus

            The wealthy aren’t taxed more an anyone else, they are taxed FAR LESS ! Now, what’s your reasoning for the socialist agenda you espouse of redistribution of wealth from the Middle Class to the wealthy and Big Corporations?

            Frippin’ socialist

          • Eddie47d

            Bob is having fun name calling but I hate to burst your bubble. Yes they (rich liberals)should be taxed right along with rich conservatives.

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            JOvi, the rich ar taxed more, but the rich, also have the ability to hire the best accountants who know the where the loopholes are! You have the same ability to make more money and hire the high priced accountants yourself!_-don’t bitch about others!

        • kkflash

          J. Anus: “Let’s cut spending by increasng revenues.”
          That’s more idiotic lib double-speak than I can stand. You sound just like the Dimocratic Congresspersons, calling tax increases cuts. From dictionary.com for you and the other illiterate libs- “Cut: to lower, reduce, diminish, or curtail (sometimes followed by down): to cut prices.”

  • http://foundersrevolution.blogspot.com patriot1776

    I hate to say I told you so, but I was saying LONG before the election of 2010 that changing the faces in Washington WON’T change the game. There is NO electoral solution to our problems(not at the Federal level anyway). The system is broke , the game is rigged, and switching around the deck chairs on the sinking Federal ship won’t change our fate.The “budget battle” is a prime example of how we are misled to believe that there are two parties who are in any meaningful sense “different”. they are NOT. They are both the party of Government, and LOTS of it. The only difference is the means not the ends. Lets not forget that ALL of the “cuts” are only cutting the pre-ordained increases! they are not relly cuts at all! convenient huh?
    When we wake up and STOP putting our faith in a central government and turn back to where the power is supposed to be- the States, we may actually see a return to liberty. Our only hope for tuning this ship around is at the State level! Unfortunately most are unaware of this.But we MUST focus on electing people in our States who will cut the Federal leash and return to protecting our liberties!

  • Bitter Libertarian

    You Cannot Fix this problem from one “side”…

    End the wars, NOW
    Keep Funding a Military = Strong Defence
    Pull Troops back/keep agents in place
    End ALL Subsidies; If its not worth it dont subsidize it!
    Cut Foreign Aid by 50% this year, 100% next year
    Eliminate ALL Federal Grants
    Reduce National Security Agencies by 50% (extremely redundent here)
    Eliminate the term: “To Big to fail” No more bailouts
    No More tax breaks for ANYONE You live here you pay-period
    Eliminate all Govt Social Welfare programs not outlined specifically identified in the US Constitution
    Pass a Bill to end the Fed act of 1913.
    Pass a Bill to restore Constitutional Currency.
    Continue Social security, begin a Transition program to wean Americans off Govt programs.
    Pass a Bill redefining the “General welfare Clause” to Define the Limits of that term.

    Just a few off the cuff suggestions.

    • kkflash

      I vote for all the above.

      • patty

        Ditto that. How can we streamline them into an all new congress?

  • Bob

    Jovial anus: You failed utterly to address the content of my post because you lack any agument (or even the intellect necessary to formulate an argument). You have nothing but lies in your pathetic arsenal of time-worn, lieberal canards that you have take from the works of Marx and other lieberal scum such as maobama. I notice that you really never present anything but these lies in you ignorant posts; I guess that means you are nothing but a liar.

    • Eddie47d

      Bob; Do you represent conservatives in your constant name calling? I haven’t seen much level headiness with you in these attacks.

      • Bob

        Name calling? I speak only the truth – the enemy of all lying lieberal scum. I am just calling it as it is; if you can’t handle that, go back to the Sluttington post where lieberals disallow anything but posts by effiminate, lieberal morons such as yourself. I have no respect for baby-killers, tax-stealers, perversion pushing lieberals and I see no reason to pretend that I do.

        • Bruce D.

          Eddie thinks he can make a difference here. On the Huff Post they are all lusting after other peoples money but apparently thinks what he says means something here.

          • Bob

            Eddie is delusional; but we already know that.

        • Eddie47d

          Two “level headed” conservatives in a row. That’s a near impossibility. Whopper time!

    • kkflash

      Ditto.

  • Dale on the left coast

    Standard and Poors just downgraded America’s debt . . . first step on the path to Greece . . . . we have witnessed the greatest govt GROWTH in history the last 3 years . . . also the greatest “SPEND” in history. I predict the “WON” will drop out before 2012 . . .

  • Dean

    What common man still believes he has any allies in D.C.?

    • kkflash

      Dr.’s Ron & Rand Paul, and that’s about it.

  • Freddie

    Subject: Charley Reese’s final column for the Orlando Sentinel…

    A very interesting column. COMPLETELY NEUTRAL

    Charley Reese’s final column for the Orlando Sentinel…

    He has been a journalist for 49 years.
    He is retiring and this is HIS LAST COLUMN.

    Be sure to read the Tax List at the end.

    This is about as clear and easy to understand as it can be. The
    article below is completely neutral, neither anti-republican or
    democrat. Charlie Reese, a retired reporter for the Orlando Sentinel,
    has hit the nail directly on the head, defining clearly who it is that
    in the final analysis must assume responsibility for the judgments
    made that impact each one of us every day. It’s a short but good read
    and worth the time. Worth remembering!

    545 vs. 300,000,000 People

    -By Charlie Reese

    Politicians are the only people in the world who create problems and
    then campaign against them.

    Have you ever wondered, if both the Democrats and the Republicans are
    against deficits, WHY do we have deficits?

    Have you ever wondered, if all the politicians are against inflation
    and high taxes, WHY do we have inflation and high taxes?

    You and I don’t propose a federal budget. The President does.

    You and I don’t have the Constitutional authority to vote on
    appropriations. The House of Representatives does.

    You and I don’t write the tax code, Congress does.

    You and I don’t set fiscal policy, Congress does.

    You and I don’t control monetary policy, the Federal Reserve Bank does.

    One hundred senators, 435 congressmen, one President, and nine Supreme
    Court justices equates to 545 human beings out of the 300 million are
    directly, legally, morally, and individually responsible for the
    domestic problems that plague this country.

    I excluded the members of the Federal Reserve Board because that
    problem was created by the Congress. In 1913, Congress delegated its
    Constitutional duty to provide a sound currency to a federally
    chartered, but private, central bank.

    I excluded all the special interests and lobbyists for a sound reason.
    They have no legal authority. They have no ability to coerce a
    senator, a congressman, or a President to do one cotton-picking thing.
    I don’t care if they offer a politician $1 million dollars in cash.
    The politician has the power to accept or reject it. No matter what
    the lobbyist promises, it is the legislator’s responsibility to
    determine how he votes.

    Those 545 human beings spend much of their energy convincing you that
    what they did is not their fault. They cooperate in this common con
    regardless of party.

    What separates a politician from a normal human being is an excessive
    amount of gall. No normal human being would have the gall of a
    Speaker, who stood up and criticized the President for creating
    deficits. The President can only propose a budget. He cannot force the
    Congress to accept it.

    The Constitution, which is the supreme law of the land, gives sole
    responsibility to the House of Representatives for originating and
    approving appropriations and taxes. Who is the speaker of the House?
    John Boehner. He is the leader of the majority party. He and fellow
    House members, not the President, can approve any budget they want.
    If the President vetoes it, they can pass it over his veto if they
    agree to.

    It seems inconceivable to me that a nation of 300 million cannot
    replace 545 people who stand convicted — by present facts — of
    incompetence and irresponsibility. I can’t think of a single domestic
    problem that is not traceable directly to those 545 people. When you
    fully grasp the plain truth that 545 people exercise the power of the
    federal government, then it must follow that what exists is what they
    want to exist.

    If the tax code is unfair, it’s because they want it unfair.

    If the budget is in the red, it’s because they want it in the red.

    If the Army & Marines are in Iraq and Afghanistan it’s because they
    want them in Iraq and Afghanistan …

    If they do not receive social security but are on an elite retirement
    plan not available to the people, it’s because they want it that way.

    There are no insoluble government problems.

    Do not let these 545 people shift the blame to bureaucrats, whom they
    hire and whose jobs they can abolish; to lobbyists, whose gifts and
    advice they can reject; to regulators, to whom they give the power to
    regulate and from whom they can take this power. Above all, do not let
    them con you into the belief that there exists disembodied mystical
    forces like “the economy,” “inflation,” or “politics” that prevent
    them from doing what they take an oath to do.

    Those 545 people, and they alone, are responsible.

    They, and they alone, have the power.

    They, and they alone, should be held accountable by the people who are
    their bosses.

    Provided the voters have the gumption to manage their own employees…

    We should vote all of them out of office and clean up their mess!

    Charlie Reese is a former columnist of the Orlando Sentinel Newspaper.

    What you do with this article now that you have read it… is up to you.
    This might be funny if it weren’t so true.
    Be sure to read all the way to the end:

    Tax his land,
    Tax his bed,
    Tax the table,
    At which he’s fed.

    Tax his tractor,
    Tax his mule,
    Teach him taxes
    Are the rule.

    Tax his work,
    Tax his pay,
    He works for
    peanuts anyway!

    Tax his cow,
    Tax his goat,
    Tax his pants,
    Tax his coat.

    Tax his ties,
    Tax his shirt,
    Tax his work,
    Tax his dirt.

    Tax his tobacco,
    Tax his drink,
    Tax him if he
    Tries to think.

    Tax his cigars,
    Tax his beers,
    If he cries
    Tax his tears.

    Tax his car,
    Tax his gas,
    Find other ways
    To tax his ass.

    Tax all he has
    Then let him know
    That you won’t be done
    Till he has no dough.

    When he screams and hollers;
    Then tax him some more,
    Tax him till
    He’s good and sore.

    Then tax his coffin,
    Tax his grave,
    Tax the sod in
    Which he’s laid…

    Put these words
    Upon his tomb,
    ‘Taxes drove me
    to my doom…’

    When he’s gone,
    Do not relax,
    Its time to apply
    The inheritance tax.

    Accounts Receivable Tax
    Building Permit Tax
    CDL license Tax
    Cigarette Tax
    Corporate Income Tax
    Dog License Tax
    Excise Taxes
    Federal Income Tax
    Federal Unemployment Tax (FUTA)
    Fishing License Tax
    Food License Tax
    Fuel Permit Tax
    Gasoline Tax (currently 44.75 cents per gallon)
    Gross Receipts Tax
    Hunting License Tax
    Inheritance Tax
    Inventory Tax
    IRS Interest Charges IRS Penalties (tax on top of tax)
    Liquor Tax
    Luxury Taxes
    Marriage License Tax
    Medicare Tax
    Personal Property Tax
    Property Tax
    Real Estate Tax
    Service Charge Tax
    Social Security Tax
    Road Usage Tax
    Recreational Vehicle Tax
    Sales Tax
    School Tax
    State Income Tax
    State Unemployment Tax (SUTA)
    Telephone Federal Excise Tax
    Telephone Federal Universal Service Fee Tax
    Telephone Federal, State and Local
    Surcharge Taxes
    Telephone Minimum Usage Surcharge Tax
    Telephone Recurring and Nonrecurring Charges Tax
    Telephone State and Local Tax
    Telephone Usage Charge Tax
    Utility Taxes
    Vehicle License Registration Tax
    Vehicle Sales Tax
    Watercraft Registration Tax
    Well Permit Tax
    Workers Compensation Tax

    STILL THINK THIS IS FUNNY?
    Not one of these taxes existed 100 years ago, & our nation was the
    most prosperous in the world.
    We had absolutely no national debt, had the largest middle class in
    the world, and Mom stayed home to raise the kids.

    What in the heck happened? Can you spell ‘politicians?’

    I hope this goes around THE USA at least 545 times!!! YOU can help it
    get there!!!

    GO AHEAD. . . BE AN AMERICAN!!!

  • http://anonymous jose

    Nations have the govts. they deserve… When a good alternative candidate presents himself he is always rejected

  • Bitter Libertarian

    As the sparks fly….

    I do suggest to Jovianus, to look at what it takes to start a Bussiness (you may already know) but if not, see what it takes to start a simple coffee shop these days. Dont get me wrong, I am all about consumer protection (to a lesser degree then we have today) but look at what it takes. The Business spirit that exists today has to have enormous capitol & todays “mom & Pop’s” are very capable people. Then the problem is that once they get going, they keep going, and if they do good they further their wealth. Then they get labeled the “Evil Rich” who doesnt pay enough taxes.

    My point is everyone says tax the rich, tax break to the poor. Please tell me where the line is that says beyond this annual income you are rich. This is critical and I ask this because I dont believe that by todays standards a rich person is someone who makes anything less then 2-5 million annually. Above that you have the Elites and THATS where the problems Lie, NOT with the people below that.

    Once you are above that 5 million mark you enter a class that, (dare I say) draws allot of power. Not saying its automatic, but theres power beyond belief in that income level. The corruption, greed, deception, and POLITICS are of a nature very FEW can truely understand, until there.

    Now if you were to wage a ‘War” against the rich I highly recommend that those elites be the ones you target, NOT the Rich people that start business, employ people, and keep Building America over and over again.

  • ONTIME

    It is understandable how easily a politician can be accused of lying even when they profess to be telling the truth, it’s because the convoluted thought process that applies to government is masterfully composed of misdirecting, misleading and misapplied circumstances that are based upon two hundred years of designed deciet by congress, the exec branch, the judiciary and the lobbyist. There is no way the truth can be stated without the word “but” and it is all because the government intends to grow, control and operate under the assumption that you are never going to be clever enough to stop the process or deign the truth.

    Just keep voting for those who will game the system and employ any manner of well designed convolution to tell you, the idiot, that your “elected” official has every right to go behind your back and stab you repeatedly and remove your wallet in the process, leaving you no recourse….Some how being equal in the eyes of the law has gotten waylaid.

    • Stephan F.

      Nice post, O.T.

      I’d like to wager that in this country not one person in hundred is aware of the government’s propaganda scheme to misdirect and confuse the populace. Author R.J. Ringer had a few choice words to say about this subject some 30 years ago in his classic work “Restoring the American Dream”, and I quote:

      “The fact that so many people know so little about the real workings of govt is certainly no accident. Govt spends billions of dollars of taxpayers’ money each year to help its intellectuals create illusions, mysteries and confusion about hundreds of subjects that are important to politicians.”

      “Govt has an endless arsenal of subjective, meaningless and/or distorted words and phrases with which it mentally seduces the public, ie: the people, society, the public.”

      “Today, almost the entire population of the country has been effectively taught to believe in practically everything that the govt says to be true.”

      And finally, this timeless favorite of mine:

      “Intellectually inspired propaganda, twisted and confusing words, and intimidating slogans are govt’s main mental weapons for maintaining peaceful control of the masses.”

      • Bob

        Gee, sounds just like what we see maobama and the maocrats doing with the help of the MSM. If your post is true (and I suspect that it is-at least under maobama), the government has to have the willing aid of the media – a point I have made several times. If this is true, then the media is guilty of aiding the governemnt to the detriment of the American people. If that is true, the media must be punished.

      • kkflash

        This is also why it is so important to government to control funding of education. If they control its funding they can control its content, and thus keep the public generally misled.

        • Bob

          And the lieberal scum of the teacher’s unions are more than happy to help mislead our children.

        • patty

          KK & Bob – I believe a lot posting here are retired people. There are a lot of kids out there that need a friend, big brother/sister. We need to get involved with them and start de-programming these kids.

      • 45caliber

        Clinton had as one of his goals in his educational program “Goals 2000″ the item to teach the children, starting as young as 2 that the government is always right. He only codified something all of them want.

  • john

    Truly, we are living in Orwellian times. Remember the book, Animal Farm? Pull it out and read it again. Congress is (again) proving it’s federal policy is one of a “Do as we say, not as we do”, and “All animals are created equal, but some are more equal than others.” Congress is the animal that perceives it is more equal than the citizens of this nation who handed them the privilege to serve.

    This type of smoke and mirrors accounting in the private sector is called FRAUD, and it is criminal, because it is based on WILLFUL AND INTENTIONAL DECEIT and material misstatement of fact.

    Federal prisons are filled with former corporate executives serving long prison sentences for their willful and intentional deceit in manipulating the truth through clever accounting schemes, including reclassifying debt and expenses through creative accounting parlance.

    What Congress has done here is nothing less than criminal and intentionally deceitful and fraudulent, in using its Constitutional authority to abet a plan to deceive the American public, and once again, disguise the truth. To willfully represent money not spent as a reduction in the current budget is absolute accounting FRAUD. Congress is saying that money not spent from a prior year’s operating budget for a project completed this year, can be claimed as a reduction in the current year’s federal deficit spending! The TRUTH is, that money was allocated to be spent, but never was. To claim that as a reduction in this year’s budget is to claim a reduction for money never spent. All this means, is that the government will have to borrow less to pay for those costs that it had previously committed to spend. However, that DOES NOT reduce CURRENT deficit spending for the CURRENT year, (as that money was allocated in a prior year), or reduce CURRENT commitments made and funded from a currently 40% debt-financed government!

    Try this game with the IRS and see how far it gets you! “Well, you see Mr. Auditor, even though we claimed in our 2009 corporate tax return, our operating expenses were $50,000 more than they eventually turned out to be, because we didn’t have to spend that money, we determined to reduce our current liabilities by that amount over here on Schedule L. That is how we elected to account for the money not spent. You’re OK with that, right?”

    Here is the part the Congressional Budget Office hasn’t disclosed. The 99% of the budget cuts that were not cuts at all, will be re-appropriated. In other words, the $37.648 billion they didn’t have to spend, WILL BE SPENT in the upcoming 2012 budget–so the expenditure NEVER GOES AWAY. Therefore, the political SHOW and FINANCIAL SHELL GAME about reducing the deficit by $38 billion will, but for approximately 1%, have effectively never happened.

    This shell game has been going on for decades in the halls of Congress and is a material part of why we are in the mess we are in. Our government is CORRUPT! When in the hell are Americans going to get “mad as hell and not take it anymore?” When do we throw the bums out and start with a clean slate?

    The future of this country cannot be trusted to politicians–they ALL LIE! Financial issues cannot be solved by career politicians. Financial issues are solved by economists and business experts. They think in those terms. Career politicians think ONLY in terms of votes.

    This country was built by STATESMEN who served for the love of their country. We need to find and elect statesmen who will honor, defend, and protect the Constitution, and truly serve the people of this nation, and not themselves at the expense of the nation.

    • Bob

      The future that the liberals have for America could be that of Animal farm, 1984, or Brave New World (Huxley). In any case, it is not a future that holds any hope for humanity.

      • Thamera

        While I agree with you Bob, there are too many people that first, have never read those books and second, if they have, think they are only fairy tales.

  • Average Joe

    A simple Solution to the Tax problem. End the income tax…period. Next, institute a 10-15% (flat) consumption tax (no loopholes, no one and nothing is tax exempt). Now, everyone is taxed at the same rate and you pay those taxes based soley on what you purchase, whether it is food, electricity, clothing, auto, house, etc. Now we have a reason to start saving money …rather that continuing to add debt to our lives.
    For those lost folks out there that will say that the rich are somehow getting the better deal here….you are wrong. The rich (as you like to call them) typically buy bigger houses, bigger cars, more expensive jewelry, clothes and just about every perk that we ( the little people) can only dream about, as such, the rich will pay a higher overall tax.
    10%-15% is 10%-15%….period….it doesn’t get any more fair than that. To believe otherwise is either ignorance…or stupidity.
    To Review: Flat consumption tax is fair to all….anything else….is just a shell game….AKA…misdirection.

    • Bob

      The wise way to look at government is as if it were a product for consumption. Then ask yourself; why would I want to pay for more than I consume? In proportion to what they pay, the poor and middle class receive much more “product” than they pay for, while the rich receive much less. Is this fair? The only way to be fair is to institute a “head tax” based on consumption of the government “product”. This would stop the parasitic poor and parasitic middle class (that part of the middle class that is made up of governemnt drones and union loafers) from demanding more product because they don’t want to receive the “product” unless someone it is received at another’s expense. We have become a nation of whinin g, selfish parasites that keeps asking for more and more while demanding that we do (and pay) less and less. We need to forget about raising revenue, we need to slash and trash government while jettisoning the parasites among us.

      • Average Joe

        The correct way to deal with the “Parasitic” class, is to eliminate them…there is no authority in the Constitution, granting the government the power to take public funds and give them to anyone….period…tell these parasites that they now have two years to get their sh** together…the buck stops then…..If the government would just shrink and get rid of all of the “beauracracies”(AKA Useless eaters) within the government…we could fund them at a tax rate 2-5% “consumption” tax.

        My senario was concerning taxes…fair taxes. I wasn’t trying to get too much into the “whole economy”….I could be here for days on that subject.

        • 45caliber

          And at the end of those two years there would be cries of anquish you could hear all over the world about how “unfair” we are and how we intend to starve all those children to death.

          But it always amazes and annoys me to see them not have enough to feed their many children while having plenty to buy more toys or drugs.

          • Bob

            It is all about priorities: Toys and drugs are more important to lieberals than children. That is how lieberals can sleep at night after partaking in the slaughter of babies – they just move them way down the priority scale by referring to them as “fetal tissue”. The godfather of lieberalism, Hitler, did the same thing to Jews when he referred to them as “untermensch”, meaning subhuman.

          • Thamera

            You aren’t kidding 45. I walk into those homes every day. I hear their stories of “woe is me” and all of their excuses. Can’t meet their financial obligations or their basic needs but they will always have their smokes, beer and big screen tv!!! And now, the Obama’s have just unveiled another gargantuan plan to provide for the needs of these oh so “poor” people by using a division of the AmeriCorp Vista Program to canvas neighborhoods specifically to sign up people for food stamps! Maybe Jovi is one of their applicants…

          • Thamera

            I forgot to include the link should anyone want to read about the Obama’s latest and greatest plans http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2705192/posts

          • patty

            Thamera – One of these days I will spell your name right! Sorry about that. I commend you on sticking to your job. DO you have nmultiple contacts with the same people? Are you allowed to give them pamphlets on free ed etc. that could help get them out of the vicious welfare cycle? I know my son works with section 8 people daily. He is so disgusted beyond belief. He doesn’t understand how these people even make a decision to get up in the morning. When he walks in and it is trashed, he gives them a canister of comet and tells them they have 48 hours or he will be back with an eviction notice. The hoops they have to jump to allow these people to live there are unbelievable. My house would not pass their inspection before they can move in and I don’t live in the projects. I know I have a torn screen. Dog went through it the other day. That alone would disqualify this property. And my son says those are the first thing they rip off. In MN they get about 50-60k in tax free to them benefits and that is without higher free education.

          • Thamera

            No problem Patty :D. How do I even begin to describe what I do. I entered this latest profession by default as I was teaching high school before the school I taught at closed due to, get this, misappropriation of funds! Anyway, I have now found myself in the abysmal world of social work. The people I work with have the best intentions, they are absolutely wonderful people, but I am really beginning to see that absolute dysfunction of the welfare program at its worst! These people we work with, do not want to change! Plain and simple and th, they have so many freebies thrown at them through the government that they are clueless and simply don’t care how things work as long as they are getting their SSI and all of their government freebies. Bottom line is this: we are not helping people, we are enabling them, that is all we are doing and yes, I have been in many homes that are so disgusting that you don’t want to sit or touch anything and if I do have to sit I will sit on the very edge of the chair because I am not certain what I am going to be sitting in. I could go on and on and on. Suffice it to say I have very low tolerance for this behavior. It is repulsive and repugnant and I can attest first hand that our tax dollars are basically being flushed down the toilet for all the good it is doing these people. btw: most of them drive nicer and new cars than mine, and I kid you not, every single one of them has all the toys, gidgets and gazmos along with their brand new cars (which they even get vouchers for to fill their car with gas!) It defies all reason and logic to me that some people on this forum continue to believe that somehow the poor are so “needy” or are even at risk! And btw, if anyone is going hungry in this country, it is their own d-mn fault! Not only are there plenty of resources to “feed” the “poor” they are in triplicate but truth be told, their are people that are just to d-mn lazy to even find out where to go. Sorry, I have really gone off on a tangent. I think I know exactly what your son has to put up with. :D

          • patty

            Thamera – My son carries cards for the evicted people. He evicts them, comes out, changes the locks and they are just standing there on the sidewalk. They have had weeks to figure it out. He says something like, “Do you need a ride somewhere?”, Do you know where the bus line is? They have absolutely NO clue. He gives them the address and phone number to a shelter. Just another help from the state. I stayed at a low budget hotel that houses a bunch of these people. They seem to have plenty to throw into the vending machines….

  • http://outlookexpress Edwin

    Dave, I stopped reading when I got to your post. I am about your age and you are one of the few that posted on this site that seems to not have self-serving answers. It amazes me that there are so many folks that are down on people that make a success of their lives. We have had the same educational system for decades for all and where one may become a doctor or engineer and thrives there are those that think they should be punished for their success because they didn’t do as well. Get over it, you both had the same opportunity, he or she applied themselves while you did not. If this isn’t the case there is only one other and that is that they are much smarter than you and that isn’t their fault.
    I also can’t get over the number that evidentally don’t have the sense to look at a dictionary when not knowing the definition of a word. We see those ranting on here about one receiving entitlements. What does the word mean. Entitled means that the person is entitled to it; by means of having paid for it, earned it by some means or having done something that would give them credit for receiving it.
    Social security and medicare are entitlements because those receiving it legally paid for it by having it deducted from their earnings while working. Medicare is paid by those receiving it to a government that is so greedy they evidentally devised this scheme to be able to keep some of the social security money. Medicaid is not an entitlement as those benefitting from it hasn’t paid into a system that makes them entitled to receive it. It is nothing more than a social program comparable to welfare or food stamps.
    For those thinking that government is so benevolent research the history of social security and see how a greedy government has destroyed it. It wasn’t a tax and it started off being voluntary but the greed of government set a payment into it which would insure a steady income to a corrupt government. When you get old enough to draw it government will give you a monthly allowance and in times like now will not give you an increase of your money but will vote themselves a five thousand dollar a year increase. When you die all the money you were forced to pay into the system will not go to your family, a bunch of greedy thieves called government will keep the balance.
    Hope you are happy with what you have because if things continue in the direction we’re going one day you WILL work for the government ceding all to them or you will be done away with as you will be of no further use to them.

    • 45caliber

      You are exactly right about SS. When it was first started, it grew by huge amounts since those paying in were working and no one was drawing it. The government couldn’t stand to see all that money accumulating without them having a chance to spend it. So they did. Originally they “borrowed” the money by issuing treasure notes for what they took out. But later they decided that obligated the government too much so they simply took the money. If they were forced to replace the money they took, we’d have so much money in there it would never run out. And, as you said, it is also a way for the government to acquire all the savings to prevent it from going to the inheriters after you die.

    • kkflash

      I wish that our governments could stick to your definition of entitlement, but unfortunately we’ve become a nation who thinks they’re entitled to things they didn’t pay for or earn, and government is only too happy to pander to that belief in order to buy the votes of the “entitled” and propagate their power. It all comes crashing to a halt when there are too few earners left to pay for all the promised “entitlements”.

  • Peter

    I love reading these comments. I know all of them mean well. However it appears that the discussion is like arguing about what size bucket to use to put out the fire. We need to stop pointing fingers due to the fact that there is enough blame to go around. Stop calling people names. Stop blaming past administrations. Stop the class warfare. Let’s argue in civil language and stick to the facts not as we want to portray them but as they are. I suggest that we all read the constitution and understand the federalist papers so that we can apply what the founding fathers put in the constitution. This document isn’t just for a handful of lawyers. We need to get back to a citizens government and stop voting professional politicians into office. Most of the people holding office today are so far removed from the everyday citizens lives it’s no wonder that they don’t represent their constituents. Most of the problems we have today are due to the fact that we have bastardized the constitution over the last 150 years. If our government would follow the principals of the constitution, there is no way it could have grown and become so bureaucratically ineffective as it has become.

    • Bob

      Civil dialogue, or “civilogue” is the invention of the lieberals of AOL and is used extensively by lieberals to limit free speech. True civil dialogue is only possible when both parties are interested in the truth; something which anyone with an IQ higher than their shoe size knows is not true when lieberals are part of the conversation. The very basis of lieberalism is a lie, therefore there can be no “civilogue” with lieberals. Your post is either naive or disengenuous. As long as lieberals insult the intelligence of conservatives by lying, there will be the name calling that results from such insults.

      • karolyn

        It never fails to amaze me that people can have such small, narrow minds.

        • 45caliber

          It is your association with the liberals. If you stick to the conservatives you will be able to enjoy broader minds with mire enlightenment…

          • Karolyn

            45 – When I read what people like Bob and WIA write, it does show such small minds that all they can see is their own view and no one else’s. It’s people with such anger and hate inside that are creating all of the disasters in the world with their negativity. I just cannot fathom such narrowness of mind that equates anyone with an opposing view as being “scum,” etc. That is NOT the AMERICAN WAY! It’s disgusting in my eyes, and I’m glad I don’t have to know them in person. I choose to stay away from people like that in “real” life. They must be very miserable.

          • Thamera

            Interesting Karolyn that you fail to mention anyone with a liberal point of view in your comments LMAO…like Jovi or Denniso…they are clearly not angry are they hahahaha.

          • Karolyn

            Thamera – That’s not saying it was right. Negativity begets negativity. We should be more evolved by now. I believe as Jesus taught to love they neighbor. I hate no one. You are showing your ignorance by making light of hatred. I hear more real hatred coming out of conservative’s mouths. I have heard no liberals talking of killing someone or calling anybody scum or other such epithets. Take your blinders off.

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            Karolyn, how do you explain this, Liberals cussin’ out a 14 year old, whilst giving a speech___really???_Wheres the RESPECT ON THIS ONE????Or is it all one sided?__Your side…

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXnJKc337Ic

          • karolyn

            Angel – If you notice I used the word “people”. I do not differentiate between political sides. Going by this site, I do see more real venom from the conservatives. And I’m not saying all, either. I am speaking in terms of those who spread negativity wherever they go.

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            Karolyn, Lol, welllll K, if your experiencing a little more hateful rhetoric on this site, don’t you think that perhaps its due to you, being on a consevative site, with a Liberal point of view???_-I’m not trying to be a smart azz here Karolyn, but C’mon, really?

        • Thamera

          Exactly Karolyn – it sucks, doesn’t it?

          • Thamera

            Not the “American Way” according to PC apologists and pacifists like yourself Karolyn. You would of not lasted one minute when this country was founded and I suppose the revolution from England was eh, peaceful???

        • DaveH

          Whoops, there goes “cinderella” Karolyn, personally attacking people yet again. Are there more than one Karolyns? I distinctly remember a Karolyn that was whining about the personal attacks.

          • karolyn

            I was not attacking anyone Dave. I was not calling anyone names and spewing hate. I don’t talk of my fellow human beings like that. Why would I hate someone just because they don’t believe as I do? I just don’t understand hate. That’s it. There is a difference, yet you seem not to notice. Why is that? Is it just because of politics?

          • patty

            Karolyn – If you could live all of your ideologies along with all the other liberals on your own, that would be fine. But you can’t. People who think like you, think that everyone should think like you, believe like you, and live like you. That is totally opposite with this American experiement. The fact is, if you wanted to fund all of these things that you think will bring you to Utopia, you have to include (besides a lot of ink and paper) people who do not believe as you do, think as you think, etc. And the liberals of this nation know they cannot do this on their own so they pass laws to make others compliant in their (your) belief system. So tell me, who is oppressive, who pushes whos agenda on others? Live as you want to, but do not force me to live as you.

          • Thamera

            Ah karolyn…you confuse hate with passion and very few people are calling for violence and the ones that do are immediately shot down but you don’t seem to notice that. Are we passionate about our beliefs? Absolutely! Don’t confuse hate with passion. As for Christ, he was perfect, I don’t claim to be, but even Christ cleared the temple of the money changers…

          • karolyn

            Patty – I absolutely would not want everyone to be the same; however, if there was more love in this world and less hate, we would ALL be better off. It starts with ME (or YOU). I hate no one, nor do I call names as a child would do. I have had people in my life who have done hateful things to me but only send them love. They need it!

          • libertytrain

            “All we are sayyyinng is give peace a chance….”

          • patty

            No Karolyn-What they need is a gov’t. that gets out of our face, that doesn’t make us pay for things we do not believe should be paid for, that FOLLOWS our constitution. You talk like you are still living in a commune. You need to get real. You sound like you are living on some utopia cloud. What you need is a reality check. I bet you have no clue how the money that they confiscate from everyone is really spent. I think you should spend a day following Tamera and get some reality in your life. I am wondering, do you pay your own bills or someone else, like a bankruptcy court, maybe a guardian?

  • JeffH

    “If you drive a car, I’ll tax the street. If you try to sit I’ll tax your seat. If you get too cold I’ll tax the heat. If you take a walk I’ll tax your feet. ‘Cause I’m the taxman.”
    George Harrison, from “Taxman,” by The Beatles

    The government should be aware of how little they are trusted!

    To want more from successful isn’t just greedy, it’s downright evil, and stupid besides. The POTUS and his merry flock act as if success is a crime. Something to be punished!

    The government should be aware of how little they are trusted!
    I do NOT believe GOV would really use increased taxes to reduce the deficit. Congress and the President are a lying pack of uh mmm…LIARS! I do not believe anything they tell me. If they said the sky was blue I would go outside and check and still doubt it.

    Here’s something I DO believe — if the GOV collects more taxes they will simply spend all of it, and continue borrowing as much as they can on top of it. This is what they’ve done before, and I see no reason to believe they will change.

    And now, Mr. POTUS, you’ve lied once again about an agreed upon CZAR ban in the budget deal!

    Candidate Obama vowed to never emanate signing statements as an end-run around Congressional instructions.

    Candidate Obama said. “I will not use signing statements to stop or criticise congressional instructions as enacted into law.” In other words, Obama ignores CZAR ban in budget extention.

    Is anybody surprised that Obam would lie again and again and again?
    As a Marxist radical and community organizer he always lied. Why would he change now or ever?

    • Bob

      The Beatles were typical lieberal hypocrites – they blasted the taxman while pushing lieberal ideas that required massive taxation. Lieberals just don’t get it – everyone is rich but them, everyone is failing to pay their fair share except them. The Beatles got fabulously rich appealing to the pseudo-idealism of the lieberals of the 60s, just like Gore and the rest of the lieberal hypocrites are doing now.

  • Ron K.

    I want to add to what BITTER LIB had to say.
    1. Ten year term limits to all senators an representatives.
    2. Eliminate all lobbyists.
    3. Only U.S. citizens could contribute to our elections.
    4. No union,business, or corporate contributions.
    5. Get out of the U.N. and move it out of our country.
    6. Replace money stolen from our social security fund.
    7. Supreme Court must have ten year term limits.
    8. Judges can not legislate fro the bench. Active judges judges will
    be removed from the bench and reprimanded.
    9. All bills presented in the senate and the house must pass
    constitutional muster.
    10. Eliminate the federal reserve.
    11. Introduce a new tax system.( I prefer the FAIR TAX system ).
    12. Deport all illegals.
    13. Pass true TORT REFORM.
    14. Stop financial aid to foreign countries.
    15. Eliminate the ACLU,EPA,FCC,DOE.
    16. Fund abortion only to save a woman’s life.
    17. If on welfare you must work at a given job.
    18. Build at least 4 new oil refineries.
    19. Drill and use all of our oil and make use of our extensive coal
    reserves.

    Make our country ,THE GREATEST COUNTRY GOD GAVE TO MAN, great
    again.

    • 45caliber

      Ron K.:

      A few comments on your comments:

      1. I’ll go 12 years on Senators since they are elected to 6 year terms. No more though.

      4. If you install “only citizens giving” as shown in 3, the unions will simply generate a list of union people who contribute in one lump sum via the unions. They have done just that in the past so they could get around limits.

      5. I’d love to see the UN moved to some deserted island somewhere. But I don’t think we should get out. The spy possibilities are just too good there. However I do believe we should use our veto power as often as Russia or China does.

      7. I have no problem with term limits on the Supreme Court as long as they stagger when they get off.

      8. There isn’t supposed to be any legislation from the bench now. But the government ignores that.

      15. I can eliminate a lot more of them like HUD, Interior, Education and Energy, etc.

      16. I will agree with you only if you add incest and rape to the reasons to perform an abortion.

      17. Make it a requirement that if you ARE on welfare you MUST take the first job they hand you. Most simply turn them down, don’t show up for an interview, or do things like making themselves smell terrible so they will be turned down.

      I would like to add cutting all give-away programs by our government to include all corporate “aid” (including to any corporate farm system) and all illegal alien aid.

      And I believe that the feds have already sold or given away most if not all our oil and coal to China.

      • patty

        45cal – Just one thing on item 17 – Your paycheck will be sent to the state to offset the benenfits you receive. Also, they cannot have the option of not getting the job. They have to work at something in order to get any benefits.

        • 45caliber

          As far as I’m concerned, the benefits – all of them – stop the moment you start work. You are responsible for your own problems.

          • patty

            That is why most of them do not get a job. Their minimum wage does not cover enough for them to make it on their own or worth it for them to take a job. At least this way, something would be recouped from it and the idea is that if they have to work regardless, they just may want to better themselves so they can actually be totally on their own. Kind of like the slide rule idea but simplified.

          • 45caliber

            patty:

            When they are forced to work – even at minimum wage – most of them will quickly find a job that pays far more. Besides, the reason most of them won’t get off Welfare is because it does pay more than minimum wage. Why should they have any incentative to get off welfare in that situation? I don’t plan to force them to work forever at minimum wage – just long enough for them to become convinced they aren’t going to be able to draw welfare bennies. They they will find a good job.

  • 45caliber

    I saw an article this morning (on wnd.com) that Oblama is willing to allow the GOP to cut spending … as long as they provide $1 in new taxes for every $3 in cuts. Somehow I don’t think that is what the average citizen wants.

    • Bob

      I can’t speak for anyone but myself, but all I want to see is cut, cut, cut, until most of the government bleeds to death.

      • Bitter Libertarian

        Always an angle with this administration, just like all of them. I swear, I lose belief in our “current model” of leadership every day more & more. They (all) are absolutely criminal! Even more upsetting are the Zombie Americans following the Pied Pipers driving the bus off the cliff!

      • 45caliber

        I would like to cut everything that was created after 1777, and then reconsider whether to put any of it back in place again. We have far too much duplication between agencies and departments. Many we don’t need at all.

        • Jovianus

          45….FYI…the USA wasn’t a country in 1777. You’d like to revert back to what GB was taxing at the time? Interesting …

          • Thamera

            hmmm I’m pretty sure that the Declaration of Independence was signed on July 4, 1776 Jovi…

          • JeffH

            Thamera, once again jovi displays his liberal ignorance. FYI, a little educating for ya jovi ole boy.

            The United States was founded by thirteen British colonies located along the Atlantic seaboard. On July 4, 1776, they issued the Declaration of Independence, which proclaimed their right to self-determination and their establishment of a cooperative union. The rebellious states defeated the British Empire in the American Revolution, the first successful colonial war of independence.
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States

        • patty

          We should eliminate ALL federal agencies that have a duplicate state agency. Which would leave them with national defense.

      • Jovianus

        Bob…I’d venture that rant of yours will last up to the point where you’re asked to give up something you benefit from…then, all of a sudden, you’ll find a reason to make an exception.

        • Thamera

          Not everyone is on the government dole Jovi and there a plenty of us who would do just fine with less of the government in our lives. Your assumption is rather telling and pathetic.

          • Bob

            True and well said.

        • patty

          Jovianus – I am trying to think of anything that I benefit from in our gov’t. that should be cut because it does not help ALL Americans. I cannot think of anything.

    • kkflash

      .45: Can you point me to that article please? I looked at WND but couldn’t locate it.

      • 45caliber

        It was simply a link to an article elsewhere if I remember correctly. I’ll see if I can find it but don’t hold your breath. Considering that it and the Houston Chronicle (popularly known locally as the Houston Comical) where the only things I’ve looked at today, hopefully I can find it again.

        • kkflash

          THX for trying.

  • S.C.Murf

    I posted this earlier but I felt everyone should share. Anyone notice that as soon as jovbob posts fast eddie also posts? Maybe jovbob should put turn signals on his hips soas fast eddie doesn’t break his neck when jovbob turns a corner. Just wonder if these two are lovers, you all know how liberals think

    • (WIA) Wild Indian in Action

      S.C.Murf, Have you ever noticed my comments in previous posts, I have always addressed Eddie as (Offensive words removed) Nuff said. Why so many of you fools keep responding to these worthless pieces of garbage is beyond me.

      • S.C.Murf

        awfully loose with the fool term aren’t we?

  • http://! Angel Wannabe

    Sad Sad state of affairs this once great Country….Anything the GUV does is token. A true to life Dog & Pony show. Whatever the Guv Say’s they’re doing, guar-an-teed they’re doing the opposite.
    BTW, I do have to agree with Bob L., if any of us could print our own money, there would be NO DEBT, would there?

    ANYONE not able to see, the deliberate, deceitful destruction of our country, is either blind or a fool. By the looks of some of the comments on here, I’d say the Guv should be proud of themselves, they’ve brainwashed they’re Liberal “sheeple” well.____BTW Liberals, there is no use in posting back to me, because I refuse to waste my time & give your words merit, but feel free to add your insults, laughter is good for the soul! :)
    God Bless the America I Remember!

    • Thamera

      Oh but Angel, you shouldn’t call anyone a fool, don’t you know you might hurt someone’s feelings, like Karolyn for instance. LOL

      • karolyn

        It has nothing to do with “feelings”, Thamera. It has to do with respect. There is no need to disrespect someone just because they don’t agree with you. It is childish and shows a lack of real maturity.

        • http://! Angel Wannabe

          K. Freedom of speech honey, we ALL have the right!__ no one says ya have to like it!

        • Thamera

          And karolyn, you are what is known as passive-agressive. You have now made several personal attacks against me and other posters calling us most recently childish and immature (lol). You do make the perfect liberal though attempting to censor what people do and what they say.

          • karolyn

            That’s BS, Thamera. Well, I will call a spade a spade. Calling someone a liar and scum is a bit more radical than anything I might say. All I’m trying to do is spread a little love. I really don’t care if you laugh at it. It is what I’m here to do to help make this a better place. It is who I am. I’m not censoring anyone, just trying to open people’s eyes. If there were more people doing that, we’d be in a much better place. There are too many people advocating hate and bigotry. Anyone who cannot get his point across without using slander and vitriol, is not very articulate, wouldn’t you think?

          • Thamera

            too bad you didn’t give your unborn child the same consideration…

          • Karolyn

            Thamera – You prove my point! Unnecessary statements made just to incite or show disdain.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            karolyn,
            Statements made in support of your morals are not unessecary!

          • patty

            Karolyn – In MN it is called LOVE 105. Try that station. I told my neighbor when I was listening to it on my deck that I was bringing love to the cul de sac!

  • Bert Cundle

    A politican SAYS, YES to EVERYONE Than: Don’t blame Me!

  • http://personallibertydigest John Waites

    on the surface the Fair Tax sounds good,but I have read where Obama wants to have the fair tax and keep the regular income tax as well. That would be a disaster but normal big govt. procedure. short of a bloodless revolution I don’t see any way to stop the big and growing govt. jaugernaught.What say anyone else?

  • http://foundersrevolution.blogspot.com patriot1776

    ELIMINATE THE FEDERAL INCOME TAX ENTIRELY!!!!!!!!!! GO BACK TO THE CONSTITUTIONAL WAY-DUTIES AND IMPOSTS. We are double taxed in this Union! where else do you get taxed by two governments? State AND Federal tax? It’s B.S. George Mason Warned of this at the Virginia ratification debates. Guess he was right when he said this could happen but wrong when he said the people would not accept being taxed by TWO governments! Federal government is supposed to be so limited in its powers that it does not need all the money it confinscates today!! I am sick of hearing about FAIR tax and Flat tax. My State tax is enough thank you!

    • patty

      Agreed. And let the states fund the federal gov’t. It would be more beneficial to let the states run their state, not the fed. One size does not fit all.

      • patty

        Also, that would pit the states against the fed because they would want to keep the money in their state for their projects. Instead they are in collusion with each other.

        • http://foundersrevolution.blogspot.com patriot1776

          Exactly! Its called FEDERALISM and it is disfunctional when the States have to grovel at the feet of our Federal Masters! It is supposed to be the other way around…..you know, the Federal government doing ONLY what was spelled out for them to do in the Constitution. They should have to grovel at the feet of the States and their people!

        • http://foundersrevolution.blogspot.com patriot1776

          Not to mention, we lived WITHOUT a Federal income tax for 124 years! not until 1913 was the sixteenth amendment ratified!

  • Robert D

    I PUT THIS TOGETHER TO HELP SOME UNDERSTAND THE DEPTH OF OUR GOVERNMETS SPENDING DEPRAVITY.

    Currently our national debt is 14.8 Trillion dollars.

    That is an unfathomable amount of money that is hard to comprehend even for our congressional members.

    Let’s break that down into increments just to get a feel for how much money that really is.

    Let’s say you make $50,000.00 a year until retirement age (68) starting at age 20.

    48 years of service x $50K = $2,400,000.00 (2.4 million) in a lifetime. Remember there are billions before you get to trillions.

    You would have to work 42 lifetimes just to exceed $1 billion dollars in earnings, and 6.17 million lifetimes to equal our national debt.

    The current population is 308.4 million people and according to quickfacts.census.gov there are 105,408,101 households in the USA X $52,029.00 average household income = $5,488,024,174,929.00 (5.5 trillion) in total US income. It would take all households giving up their entire yearly salaries for nearly 3 years to payoff the current national debt.

    Now let’s assume you spend $1 million a day, every day and let’s see where that takes us.

    $1 million x 365 days in a year = $365,000,000.00 ($365 million) per year

    $365 million a year x 2011 years (calendar years A.D.) = $744,015,000,000.00 (744 billion) or (0.75 Trillion)

    NOW FOR THE NATIONAL DEBT

    14.8 TRILLION or $14,800,000,000,000.00 (that is a lot of zeros) divided by $1 million per day spent = 14,800,000 days or 40,548 years

    So it would take 40,548 years (or 14,800,000 days) of spending $1 million dollars a day every day to equal $14.8 trillion.

    By the way your calculators will not go that high, try an excel spread sheet and see for yourself.

    THE MORAL OF THE FIGURES

    IT IS TIME TO MAKE SOME CHANGES IN WASHINGTON IN 2012 AS THE ELECTED REPRESENTATIVES DO NOT GET IT.

    They agrue over cutting 38.5 billion from the federal budget of 1.8 trillion, that is only a 2.3% cut in the yearly budget and does nothing to curtail the federal deficit of 14.8 trillion. Our cronies in Washington are borrowing $4 Billion a day to keep the massive entitlement programs and pay for over-reaching military actions and unconstitutionally sending foriegn aid to countries that do not even like us and vote against us in the UN.

    It is time Vote TEA PARTY IN 2012

  • The Prophet-Messenger

    My Advice To Everyone Is Read Daniel Chapter 11 Starting In Verse 21 To See Where Things Are At Today And What Is Up Next! In other Words, What You Are Dealing With!

  • GOD

    kkflash just to let you know this site and any other site is not ANONYMOUS. So let us have a TAX REVOLT and while we are at it let us OVERTHROW this FAKE government. I am tired of these sofa king full of sh1t politicians giving themselves a free ride, letting in third world trash to sponge off us and giving minorities free ride all on our dime. None of these jerks were there helping me make MY MONEY, So let us REVOLT maybe they will not show up!!!!!

    just a shout out to the jackboot monitoring us ,,|,,:)

    • patty

      God – In order to do that you would have to get most everyone who still has a job with a company to claim 7 on their W-4 (that is what the illegals do so they can send more home), all self employed people to withhold their tax dollars, get retail operations to withhold their sales tax payments, we could bankrupt them in probably less than a quarters time. Yo, I’m in!

  • http://samsonblinded.org/blog/ Mark @ Israel

    The budget cut was all but lies. And these politicians are all big liars! How can we ever trust them again? This country is going down into the drain because of them. Can anybody save us from this kind of people?

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