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Human Rights Organizations Uncover Evidence Of Congressional Deception In CIA Secret Detention Affair

March 4, 2010 by  

Human rights organizations uncover evidence of congressional deception in CIA secret detention affair According to top international human rights groups there is evidence that key congressional members knew about the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) interrogation and detention programs, and that the United States government covered up the details of its cooperation with Polish authorities in the so-called rendition flights.

The groups—led by Amnesty International USA (AI USA)—received the documents in response to their Freedom of Information Act litigation. Among other things, they reportedly show that in one of his first acts as chair of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, Senator Pat Roberts (R-Kan.) discontinued efforts by previous chair to implement greater oversight of CIA detention and interrogation programs, failing to fulfill the role of Congress in overseeing the agency.

"These documents reveal that members of Congress colluded in covering up evidence of the U.S. government’s torture program," said Tom Parker, policy director for AI USA. He also called for a "full and impartial investigation" as Congress could not be trusted "to properly investigate itself."

Meanwhile, Open Society Justice Initiative, an advocacy group, said that official flight records—provided by Polish Air Navigation Services Agency in response to a freedom of information request filed by a human rights group—confirm that at least six CIA flights landed in Poland in 2003.

It is the first time a Polish government agency has confirmed that CIA aircraft landed repeatedly close to a suspected CIA secret detention and interrogation site for "high-value detainees."

"These records reinforce the troubling findings of official European enquiries and global human rights groups, showing complicity with CIA abuse across Europe," said Adam Bodnar of the Warsaw-based Helsinki Foundation for Human Rights.
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  • L, USA
    • JeffH

      Nice L! Thanks.

  • Harold Olsen

    These so-called human rights organizations, especially Amnesty International, are jokes. They pick and choose what countries to condemn for their so-called human rights violations and will ignore the actions of dictatorships such as in Iran where they are killing people for opposing tyranny and will quickly condemn the United States for the most insignificant act. These groups should be widely condemned for their hypocrisy!!

  • Michael J.

    Amnesty International is allied with Obama in the war against the CIA. Obama fears the CIA for it’s ability to uncover and then reveal his birth origins. That is why Obama appointed Leon Panetta, one of his lap dogs as head of the CIA in an effort to de-fang the organization.
    Meanwhile this leaves us naked in the war on terrorism.

    • denniso

      You two are rightwing zealots blinded by your partisanship…amnesty international is,gee whiz, an international group that has fought human rights abuses aruoind the world. The only way they are ‘allied
      w/ Obama’ is that he likewise is against egregious abuses of human rights.
      ‘Obama picked Panetta to defang the CIA’???What a freaking joke of a comment!! Obama is afraid they will ‘reveal his real birth certificate’????? God Almighty,you guys are pathetic and infantile in your absurd conspiracy theories…get a real life,for the sake of us who are astounded at your dribble.

      • Carol

        Denniso, let me guess….young and still wet behind the ears. You need to get a clue. Obama has and continues to leave us hanging out in the wind. This country is not protected by serving tea & crumpets. Wanting our miltary to cover their own health benefits when injured..?!! Really….?!!
        He can’t even pronounce the word “corps”. Our country needs to do whatever it takes to protect us….which is what our CIA was doing. Not now….thanks to Obama and his administration.
        The man hasn’t a clue and needs to have words fed to him by teleprompter because of the puppet that he is! He has criticized America all over the globe. I am looking forward to the day the voters kick him to the curb. He reeks of Chicago corruption!

      • Michael J.

        Denniso,
        Amnesty International is a co-conspirator with the United Nations in an on going mission to seek out new human conquest and new conquest of civilizations. To boldly dominate where no one has dominated before.

        BTW, back from rehab already? Must be, it’s tough to type while wearing a straight-jacket. They didn’t keep you very long this time. Are you sure you are healed? Hate too see you relapse or something.

  • Joe Forrester

    I would be concerned if we actually were be-heading people. But cia only do what they are called upon to do. They are the finest most brave people in the world. I put my trust in them way more then the politicians in this country. Grow up, this isn’t titly winks. How many people in other countries torture? All of them to extremes. USA is by far the most fair and compassionate country in the world. Period!

    • Barb

      Harold, MichaelJ, Joe,
      Kudos to all of you!! I agree totally with you. I have trouble with the definition of torture when it includes things like: holding one up to a wall for a couple of minutes,playing music???, feeding them????? and so on. Joe is right we don’t chop off hands, stick bamboo up finger and toe nails, smash hands and feet, lop off heads etc., etc. yet we seem to be the only country held accountable. Why is that I wonder, but of course I know the reason. Obama better leave this alone or he’ll be taking his beloved Pelosi down with the CIA, HA wouldn’t that be neat?

    • Phil

      I agree, the Cia does have some very fine Americans working to keep us safe…. Wasn’t it dispicable that Valarie Plame was outted by members of the Bush administration for political reasons?..She was a working Member of the Cia .. Right?

      • Les

        Things suddenly went completely silent on Plame when a Democrat, whose name I have forgotten right now, confessed to outting her. Look it up I am sure it is written up some where.

        • Michael J.

          Les, it was Richard Armitage.

        • eyeswideopen

          Les, it was Cheney’s chief of staff, Scoter Libby, who outted her. He went to jail.

          • JeffH

            Polly want a cracker….say it again Sam!

          • Michael J.

            EWO,
            Scooter Libby, in his trial for his role in the Plame affair, United States v. Libby, the jury convicted Libby on four of the five counts in the indictment: one count of obstruction of justice; two counts of perjury; and one count of making false statements to federal investigators.

            In essence, Scooter Libby was found guilty of lying to the Feds, not for the outing of Valerie Plame.

          • eyeswideopen

            Michael, you are right, it was Richard Armitage and Karl Rove. http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=a100103novaksmearwilson

          • Claire

            Karl Rove–haven’t heard anything about him lately, but he is still running around out there somewhere. I never did trust this guy. I can’t believe he gets by with the stunts he pulls. But he is a politician, nothing more to say.

          • Claire

            I spoke too soon. Rove is writing his “memoirs.” Another book I will not purchase.

      • Joe H.

        Phil,
        bush, waaaaa, Bush WAAAAA, Bush WAAAAAAA!!!!! A typical post from a typical libbie!!!!!

  • Phil

    Tortures illegal, so were the flights to Poland…covering up the flights is a crime too… Those guilty should face justice … Civilization needs laws…America signed on to the international banning torture and we executed Japanese soldiers that waterboarded American prisoners during Ww2….,. By the way…. You can view Presudent Obamas birth certificate on snopes.com or at usatoday.com…. You can also view the Hawaii newspapers birth announcement …

    • Michael J.

      Phil,
      Japanese waterboarding was done with salt water and causes death. A lie of omission, is still a lie.

      • Phil

        Michael…waterboardings illegal and concidered torture…it’s aginst the law… Even our law… So what is your argument?.. That it’s not aginst the law?.. Or that we didn’t agree with the international law banning waterboarding ?

        • JeffH

          Phil, maybe you should stop torturing all of us with your anti-American rhetoric, or maybe make the move to Islam, wherever that might be.

          • Joe H.

            JeffH,
            AMEN!! Can I get an AAAAMMMMEEEENNNN?????

          • JeffH

            AAAAMMMMEEEENNNN

          • Sam

            It looks if anybody disagrees with you, U’ll call him/her anti American!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Stop being anti Islam. It’s better than a million of you

          • JeffH

            Son of Sam, don’t take it so personal. Either you’re for America or your against America. Where do you stand?

        • sinnie

          Waterboarding to protect the innocent lives is justifiable. Question, if your family was held hostage and could be killed at anytime and you get a hold to one of the kidnappers, would you calmly ask him “where your family is?” which he won’t tell you or would you do anything, except killing him, to make him talk to save your family.

          • JeffH

            sinnie, that kind of logic doesn’t work with these liberals.

          • eyeswideopen

            Sinnie, we are supposed to be a Nation of LAWS!!!. Do you think it would be ok, for the police to come into your home and torture you thinking you may have info that they need? That is why we have laws. Maybe you should read what we agreed to when we signed the Geneva Convention. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneva_Conventions

          • Joe H.

            eyescertainlyshut,
            Then why did you complain about Bunning??? All he did was try to get the libbie piggies to obey their OWN law that THEY passed!!!!

          • eyeswideopen

            I didn’t complain about Bunning.

          • JeffH

            eyes with the size 15 EEEE in your mouth, once more you have been caught in a LIE! You said, and I quote:
            eyeswideopen says:
            March 4, 2010 at 11:24 pm
            Conservative Carl, this was an extension, until the bill comes up for funding and will be voted on at that time. I would be interested in how much money this guy cost all those using Corba, while it was not in effect, how much money it cost the transportation projects, that were halted, how much money it cost to shut down the system from sending the checks, and how much to restart the process. This fool, probably cost us taxpayers hundreds of thousands. Thank you Repubs, seems as though we could have spent that money more wisely.

            Would “this fool” be Bunning? Quit your lieing!

        • Michael J.

          Phil,
          Torture is illegal in the United States and Internationally. Waterboarding is however a gray area not specifically mentioned in either forum. Ask any ten individuals or dignitaries and you will get ten different responses. Ask a person whose family members have been victims of terrorism, and their reply is predictable. If Daniel Perle had been only waterboarded, he would be alive now.

        • cr747

          Phil,, poor Li’l Phil
          Wrong again.. Water boarding is one method that is legal.. It is not even classified as torture.. Grow up,, and learn something to argue about that makes sense!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

        • George E

          Phil,

          From my brief research on the subject of torture, I haven’t found any law that specifically defines waterboarding as torture, and therefore illegal. It looks to me like opponents of waterboarding have “inferred” that waterboarding is torture from general definitions provided in various legal documents and opinions, other than those issued by the Bush administration. That’s fair. Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

          However, as one who went through Marine Corps boot camp and training, and years of college, and years of working in the highly competitive corporate world, it’s difficult for me to equate waterboarding with unusual physical or mental pain, especially on combatants who are hardened beyond your average civilian. Certainly, our military personnel regularly endure pain and suffering that exceeds that of waterboarding in their training. No doubt, athletes also endure more physical and mental pain than most of us would be willing to endure, and might even consider torture if forced on us.

          Please keep in mind that we are in a serious conflict with people who are determined to kill and subjugate us to their way of thinking. We cannot treat them with kid gloves if we’re going to stop their insidious acts of terrorism on our people.

          • Claire

            George E–An eye for an eye. Our soldiers are and have been tortured when they were captured. I have no problem using whatever methods to protect our soldiers and America. Some people will not agree with me, but whatever it takes…….

          • eyeswideopen

            George, so forget the waterboarding, what about the other torture techniques they used? Those they used are forbidden in the Geneva Convention that we signed. What say you????

          • George E

            Eyes,

            I’m not aware of any other “torture” that has been used on detainees. However, if our government did undeniably torture people in conflict with the Geneva Convention, then someone should be called to task for it. However, before I jump in the boat with you, I’d like some evidence, or preferably proof, that torture has been used. Can you help me out with this?

          • eyewideopen

            George, Faith is central to the American ideal of a government of laws, not of men. It requires believing that a democratic government can survive, and must survive, by operating under the rigors of a Constitution and the rule of law. The refusal to denounce acts of torture signal an abandonmemnt of that faith, an implicit confession that our system is not strong enough to endure without compromising it’s own values. America’s failure to take a stand against detainee abuse/torture now will haunt us later when it seeks to protect our own citizens captured in future conflicts around the world. By subjecting prisoners to torture, the US has not simply failed to follow the law, it has shown that even the most fundamental ethical and Constitutional principles can, and sometimes will be sacrificed. I searched for non-partisian articles for you to view. You do remember Abu-Ghraib don’t you?
            http://whitehouser.com/news/anti-terrorism-efforts-tainted-by-torture-photos
            http://www.antiwar.com/news/?articled=2444

          • eyewideopen
          • eyewideopen

            George, http://www.cfr.org/publication/9209

            Didn’t know how many examples or articles you would need, Can get you more if you want.

          • George E

            Eyes,

            Thanks for the referenced article. I read it, but didn’t see anything other than suggestions that the Bush Administration used other types of torture techniques on detainees. I did see, however, that some “enemy” captives were sent to Romania and Poland where it has been alleged that torture is sometimes used to get information. This concerned me at first, but then I found out that both these countries had combat troops in Iraq, so after thinking about it, it doesn’t seem all that unusual that they would send their captives to their POW camps instead of to a U.S. camp. Beyond that, I found nothing in this article to cause me too much concern.

            I will say that torture is still pretty much a vague term subject to interpretation by anyone. From a personal standpoint, I don’t want to torture anyone. However, when I think about the kind of combatants we’ve been fighting, I believe these guys are hardened soldiers, not civilians like you and I. They have been trained to endure pain and suffering, and certainly deal out a lot of it in their endeavors. With guys like this, I think we ought to be allowed some deference in getting information from them. If we constrain our interrogators too much, we’ll not win this war. Maybe it will help if you try to think of these guys as hardened soldiers of evil, rather than soft, untrained civilians.

            Regards.

    • cr747

      Phil, Poor Li’l Phil
      You are so so wrong.. What ever certificates you have seen are fake,, as fake as Husein Obama!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • Claire

      Phil–I am “for” whatever it takes to protect our soldiers and America. They come first and foremost with me. I have no sympathy for the enemy when it comes down to the nitty gritty of war. You won’t like this but I would “get them before they got me.”

    • Carol

      You can also view Obama’s application as a FOREIGN STUDENT for which he also applied for a foreign student loan. He did not have dual ciizenship in Indonesia where he attended school…it’s not allowed. You can look that up too! He does have alot of questions to answer and yet he still avoids them. If there is nothing to hide….why doesn’t he disclose everything like all the other candidates did? McCain’s was questioned because he was born in Panama. They cleared that up quickly. Why doesn’t Obama?

  • Bruce A.

    Phil, Would you like another pitcher of Koolaid? Your day job is writing for Media Matters, right? Do you also believe that the earth is flat, the US faked the moon landing, and Bush blew up the twin towers and the Pentagon? Thought so!

    • Phil

      Bruce… I don’t have a clue what you’re saying… Or what or what your post has to do with this artical or my post… Stick to the subject please…

      • Joe H.

        Phil,
        That’s ARTICLE!!!!

  • http://victorbarney@embarqmail.com Victor L Barney

    If you don’t think that President Obama wasn’t behind this, good luck! A Marxist Takeover of the real Israel (Menashsheh)is taken place in America! Watch Glenn Beck if you don’t believe it! PS: The Bible states that “HEBREW” is the only spiritually inspired language(Zeph. 3″9); that we are to have no “foreigner”(Obama) over us((Deut. 17:15); and we are to make mention of no other deity before us but “YAHWEH”(Exodus 23:13). The Bible in Hebrew(Prove all things)can only be interpreted using DEDUCTION and any other interpretation(Induction) is of private interpretation (2 Peter 1:20)! Interested in truth? info@icyahweh.org.

    • Phil

      Victor…you aren’t serious are you?

  • Dennis

    I see in the first paragraph that “Key Congressional members” knew, why have you not named all of them? Why use one name and not the entire list who knew. Could the list contain person or persons you wish to protect if so is this objective reporting?

    • Phil

      Dennis, good question… It’s could be people from both partys..

      • George E

        That’s right. We need to keep an open mind.

    • Claire

      Dennis–this is a good thought. I do not think this is objectional reporting. Why say anything at all if they are not going to “name” the key Congressional members and give all the facts, that is, if they are facts. This is another issue that really gripes me. It often makes me wonder why they come up with these tidbits but never give the whole story. Are they just dangling enough of this stuff just to incite us? Yes, we do have to keep an open mind.

  • eddie47d

    Transperancy should be an American tradition and I wouldn’t want it any other way. Some of you say you want an open government but turn around and endorse illegal activities behind closed doors. You remind me of the death squads in the 80′s that the conservatives endorsed and payed for in Central America. What’s alittle torture and killing among us good Americans. Maybe we should adopt the practices of the Argentina government. They also wanted to get rid of the opposition in their country so they arrested over 10,000 people.They put most in helicopters and dumped them far at sea. That’s not a way to run a democracy (republic),or is it?

    • JeffH

      …maybe we should eliminate all of the people of Muslim faith in America because they hate and want death to anyone, I mean anyone, that isn’t of their faith.

      • eyeswideopen

        JeffH,You sir are a religious racist who doesn’t represent Americans or the Constitution. Show me where you have the right to do away with an entire religion according to the Constitution. Yup, you radicals will not be happy until you have the streets of this country flowing with blood.

        • JeffH

          You, not my friend, wouldn’t be able to understand the intent of a comment like that because your hate runs deeper than your ability to read into and comprehend the jist of a comment. You’ve always been that way, so I’m not surprised at your shallowness.

    • Robin from Arcadia, IN

      eddie47d… I think those who are guilty of breaking the law need to face the consequences, no matter who they are… Whether they be Geithner, Rangel, Van Jones, etc. I am willing to bet you will find lawbreakers on both sides of the political fence, but they all get a hand slapping and the regular Joe goes to jail. Why are they treated differently? They are not brought up on charges for blatant law-breaking, but they are allowed to be a part of the elite in Washington. What’s wrong with that picture? The corruption needs to stop. Vote out those who break the law. Don’t reward what they do!

    • Joe H.

      eddie,
      Oh yeah!!! This admin has been sooooo transparent with all those closed door meetings on health care!!!!

    • George E

      Eddie,

      I’m pretty sure you’re exaggerating to make your point. Few, if any of us would actually endorse illegal activities. Transparency is always a good thing, short of exposing our country to unnecessary security danger. However, please keep in mind that transparency tests should be equally applied to those in both (all) political parties, just like Joe H mentions above. I suggest we would be better off if we all put on our “American hats” and think independently when judging our politicians rather than automatically defending our party of choice with only their word to go on.

  • Niner

    This just proves more of what the Cheney-Bush administration did was criminal and illegal and commiting war crimes! But, of course, they will never be held accountable in America, for what ever reason, but they could still some day be tried in the International courts! I can only hope!

    • JeffH

      Niner, with the war against terror, it is simply kill or be killed. You might want to believe in the euphoric ideals of “do unto others”, but that just isn’t how the Islamic Muslim world works.

    • JeffH

      You can decide for yourself if these religious martyrs hate you or not and feel you should die at their hands.

      The Qur’an on Jihad
      ‘Jihad is ordained for you (Muslims) though you dislike it, and it may be that you dislike something which is good for you and that you like something which is bad for you. Allah knows but you do not know.’

      (Surat-al-Baqarah (2), ayah 216)

      ‘O you who believe! Be not like those who disbelieve (hypocrites) and who say to their brethren when they travel through the earth or go out to fight: ‘If they had stayed with us, they would not have died or been killed,’ so that Allah may make it a cause of regret in their hearts. It is Allah that gives life and causes death. And Allah is All-Seer of what you do. And if you are killed or die in the Way of Allah, forgiveness and mercy from Allah are far better than all that they amass (of worldly wealth etc.). And whether you die, or are killed, verily, unto Allah you shall be gathered.’

      (Surat-aal-Imran (3), ayah 156-158)

      Notice how “forgiveness” and “mercy” are associated with slaying and death in Allah’s way in the first verse, and how the second verse is does not refer to this because it is devoid of the idea of jihad. In this verse, there is an indication of the fact that cowardice is one of the characteristics of unbelievers, but not of believers. And notice how today the unbelievers seem to be brave and the believers seem to be the cowards.

      Then follows an oath of allegiance, comprehensive and protective leaving no excuses, in His words (SWT):

      ‘Verily, Allah has purchased of the believers their lives and their wealth; for the price that theirs shall be the Paradise. They fight in Allah’s Cause, so they kill (others) and are killed. It is a promise in truth which is binding on Him in the Torah and the Gospel and the Qur’an. And who is truer to his covenant than Allah? Then rejoice in the bargain which you have concluded. That is the supreme success.’

      (Surat-at-Tawbah (9), ayah 111)

      http://web.youngmuslims.ca/online_library/books/jihad/#all_muslims

    • Robin from Arcadia, IN

      Niner…
      It seems there are many in Washington who have broken laws and are not held accountable. Charlie Rangel, Tim Geither, and others come to mind….

    • Grampy

      Niner, you are more of a threat to US freedoms than any thing the Bush-Cheney administration did or didn’t do.

    • Warrior

      Appears as though we’re better off just sending a war plane over their house and dropping a bomb down their chimney. Who did that again? Oh that’s right, it was Clinton. Let’s get Holder on this right away! There was no so called war at that time, so we’ll have to try him for murder!

      • Joe H.

        Warrior,
        Yeah wasn’t he trying to take out a leader of a country we were not at war with??? Didn’t the US pass a law about that when it was proven that one of the presidents was trying to take out Castro????

    • George E

      Niner,

      I don’t think this report proves anything. It is interesting, however, and bears further investigation to see what really happened, and why. One thing we should keep in mind, however, is that all of our previous governments have been given some reasonable leeway on matters of national security, especially during times of war. If we develop a practice of holding our officials too tight to established law and post-war political sentiment, they may become reticent to take aggressive action when then need to. That would hurt more Americans than it would help. I’m sure you don’t want to do that.

  • Rachel

    What kind of organization is so called human rights.Whose rights does it defend? The rights of terrorists and women killers.that what the Muslims are doing to their own people.The so called honor killing. Have you heard anything from this so called Human rights organization about it.
    Not a peep. Have you heard anything from this organization when Israeli children were killed and mutilated by these bandit’s rockets,the children have to learn in the bombshelters.Have you heard anything from these so called Human rights markxits that condemned the killing of Americans in Iraq and then hanging there corpses of the
    bridge.Forget about this organization<America and fight terrorizm in any possible way,interrigate these bastards,get the information from to save lives.

  • chuck b

    “human rights” the trojan horse of communism

  • hey

    Phil, go smoke some more.

    • Joe H.

      hey,
      Now I know what is wrong with Philly Brand. He’s listening to you!!!!

  • eddie47d

    So much right wing trash talk I don’t know where to begin. Do any of you really know anything about Amnesty International? Sounds like you are just parroting each other. They are a well respected organization that fights for human rights in all countries. Unfortunely they can only make people aware of what’s going on in other countries;and to put pressure on their governments. No easy task. They have encourged the Iraq and Iran governments for many years to stop abusing political prisoners and to give equal rights to women. Right now they are defending Christians who are being abused in Egypt.

    • JeffH

      eddie47d, and you have seen all of their accomplisments in Iraq and Iran, I’m still trying to find something. wow!
      Accomplishments:
      •Its Control Arms campaign has published many reports and has organized more than one hundred People’s Consultations in more than forty countries around the world to give people and communities a forum to demand that their governments take action for tough international arms controls over the more than 640 million firearms in existence worldwide.
      They really seem to be making a differance.

    • eyeswideopen

      eddie, I always suspected that these people, don’t really respect or love their Constitution like they claim. These rantings are just proof of that. Most here claim to be Christians, what a laugh. Let me see, Jesus, would definately be for torturing don’t you think? These people are just right wing radicals, who want to kill somebody. It doesn’t matter to them, that torturing is against the treaties that we signed, and that our Constitution demands that we honor those treaties. They are anti-Americans, posing under the guise of being patriots.

      • JeffH

        eyeswideopen, you’ve always suspected? We no longer suspect! Every time you open your pie hole, we know it’s just a bunch of stinky krap spewing! Go think up some more lies we can call you on. That’s a lot more fun.

        • Joe H.

          JeffH,
          If eyeswiredshut had lost say one of her kids in the towers, I wonder if she would still call waterboarding torture and be so against it? I doubt it, and I doubt she would be so quick to defend the religion that masterminded and carried it out!!! It’s different to her since it wasn’t her kid!!!! She’s such a good American and patriot!!!

          • eyeswideopen

            Joe, you and Jeff, can kiss my butt, I lost a Son in Iraq and a husband in Gulf War. I have given enough so that radicals like you can spew hate and dishonor this country. But I will not let fear or hatred tear apart this country or ruin the faith in my country, and military to do everything possible to protect all, repeat all, of us. Including you anti-Americans who excell in spreading lies and who are trying to dismantle this country.

          • Claire

            eyes–I am sincerely sorry to hear about your son and husband. I did not know this. God bless them as they are true patriots that served their country. And God bless you. You are no doubt a woman of courage and strength and that is good. I cannot imagine losing my husband and my son.

          • George E

            Eyes,

            I am so sorry to hear of your loss. I cannot imagine the pain you must have endured when your loved ones gave their lives for our country. Please accept my deepest regrets for your loss, and my sincerest gratitude for their service, and your support, to our country. God bless you my friend. I wish you all the best that life can offer.

          • JeffH

            eyes, we’ve been through this more than once and I’ve told you it is a sad thing to lose loved ones under any circumstances. You have used your loses to springboard your liberal hate and continue to push the envelope with anyone that you deem a Republican. Your hate for Bush has transcended into a hate for anything Republican, and now conservative. You are a socialist trying to identify yourself as , I guess, an independent thinker, of which you contnually prove you are not. Your moniker is to put words in others mouths and often those words don’t even relate to the comments that were made. You don’t always fact check and make wild and random, unsubstantiated comments. You intentionally stalk several on this site and continue to aggressively start arguments, tell lies and reach into their personal lives with your hateful drivel. What goes around comes around. Try looking into the mirror and you’ll see who you really hate!

          • Claire

            I missed a couple of days from posting on this site and the others. I would like to take the opportunity to express why. There are times when I cannot handle the jabs we all take at each other when we do not agree. Some of the posts are really hateful. We can disagree or agree with one another and that is good. But we should not resort to the horrible name-calling. We are all seeking answers to this crazy, mixed-up political world. And we are all in the same boat when it comes right down to it. Things are scary right now, but we shouldn’t blame each other, (only when they don’t vote for the same person we do). lol We should “blame” the so-called elected politicians for creating this mess, the greed, the corruption, and the unethical way they have conducted our government. Sure, a lot of us possibly voted the wrong way, but then again, one never knows what will happen when we vote. It is a crap shoot. All we can do is our best research when voting time comes around. I know I am trying my best.
            I started posting on the Personal Liberty Digest site early last fall, I had never posted on any other site and this was all new to me. I stuck with this site. I feel like I know a lot of you really well and I can honestly say I see good hearts and souls. Some of us do like a “good fight” now and then, but we can argue without the hatefulness. Sure, all of us say things that antagonize the next person, I no doubt am guilty of this too. I am not perfect and I don’t pretend to be. I do try to be fair, at least as fair as I can be. I am human too, and there have been times when I really wanted to get down and ugly. I did once, and it really bothered me. I keep thinking–treat others as you would have them treat you. Sounds corny maybe, but I can’t help it. I try to understand everyones position on issues and their input. I do understand why people are for certain parties, etc. This is the way it is. We are not going to agree on the same party, person, ideals, but we should put some of our disagreements aside, and work together for the common good of America. I know I probably sound silly but I just keep thinking the same old adage–United we stand, divided we fall.” This is simply the way I feel. God bless each and every one of you.

          • libertytrain

            Claire – I’m so glad you are here and appreciate all your posts. Thank you.

          • JeffH

            Claire, I always feel refreshed readig your comments. You do reinforce the idea that people can dissagree and still be civil. As much as I would like to follow suit, I feel that some need to take the fight to our detractors as they give and would deserve nothing less. “call a spade a spade” and “not turn the other cheek”.

      • DDC

        Eyes Was Jesus tortured in your beliefs’ at least he didn’t kill anyone.

  • http://gmail i41

    The liberals and dems must never read or should I say understand a damn thing about history. I see the pedophile worshiping muslims in Congress are a dems, or course there was another butt blaster I see abanding the ship in the beltway. It amazes me how dems or if there is any honest dems, cann’t asking for the like of Geithner, Rangel, Daschle, and Dodd to head in to the sunset, instead of being a dem model of the party? After reading Phil, Norm and other mmentally challegned little humanoid persons defending dems and the marxist President and his thug buddies. That show how government school education has dumbed down dummies.

    • DDC

      i41 they are called humanoids, closest thing to a hemorrhoid, they all are a pain in the a$$

  • eddie47d

    Jeff H.;As I said it’s no easy task. Amnesty International is a non-profit organization and is only a voice for change in an abusive world. Even our govt. who has been in Iraq for 9yrs. now haven’t changed many laws. That really is up to the Iraqi people.

  • eddie47d

    i41; Nobody should be scared of your demeaning remarks. We’re adults and we can handle what you say even if your remarks are rather spastic.(pedophile worshiping muslims) No credibility!

  • Warrior

    My wife is polish and she tortures me all the time. Where the hell is Amnesty International when I need them?

    • Barb

      Yes and where are they now when we have to be tortured again and again by these libs constantly blaming Bush and Cheney for everything! I mentioned Pelosi by the way because that B…. was all for investigating the CIA even though SHE had to sign off on the orders for them to do whatever they did, she was, and unfortunately still is, the Speaker of the House if there was any wrong doing she’s in it up to her Socialistic, Marxist, Progressive, Plastic Surgically altered neck! When it hit her she was part of it well all of a sudden Obama et al backed waaaaay off didn’t they? Don’t you just love these cry babies Warrior?

      • Claire

        Barb—Both parties have screwed America. One party is no better than the other. They all have corrupt politicians that are looking out for themselves. We are seeing the results of greedy corrupt government that has been in control for many years.

      • DDC

        Barb, Pelosi kind of reminds me of a hemorrhoid. Well she looks like one is stuck on her shoulders

        • Barb

          DDC, Love your humor but I’m afraid we’re going to get chastised for this, libs have no sense of humor! Clair I agree both parties have hurt our country however, and this is the difference in my opinion, there are a few bad apples in the Republican Party, but only a handful of decent ones in the Democratic party if that many. You can bash the Republicans all you want and keep blaming Bush for the next 100 years but the vast majority of Americans are no longer listening to it, sorry. The mess we are in today is because of two things, the Democratic led Congress and the so-called democratic president we now have, PERIOD. You can whine and cry about Bush from here to eternity and it won’t change a thing, Obama is out to destroy our beloved country and it’s delusional zealots like you that keep him going. That’s my opinion!

          • George E

            Barb,

            I agree with your summary of the Republican and Democratic parties. I think the Republican Party can still be reformed with involved citizen input because they still basically believe in their original core values even if they stray from them occassionally, but the Democratic Party has let the cancer (progressivism and socialism) go too far, and may be beyond reformation. If the Democrats could get back to their core values without progressivism and socialism, they could be a force for good in this country.

          • Claire

            Barb—I don’t believe I am whining and crying about the Republican party. I wouldn’t waste my time. Bashing Bush? I have to inform you I voted for both of them. Bush bashing? Why bother to blame him when they all are guilty of greed and corruption. This mess didn’t happen overnight and it didn’t happen 5-10 years ago, it has been going on for years and years. As far as I am concerned there are only a handful of decent politicians from both parties. So continue to voice your opinion, and I will continue to voice mine, but do not refer to me as a zealot.

  • June Gagnon

    “Human rights organizations”, as someone said, seem to “pick and choose” which country they will “bash” – -usually the USA! I’ve noticed the “complicit liberal wing-nut media” does the exact same thing- -they pick and choose what they will report, along with the “slant” they choose to put on it – -so, it’s ANYTHING BUT ACCURATE REPORTING. I don’t love war, or violence, against anyone. However, victims of terrorist attacks, are humans and have rights, too (whether Amnesty Int’l bothers to think about that). So – -my stance is thus: holding suspected, or known terrorists (forever) waterboarding (pretense of drowning), prolonged standing, kneeling (whatever) IS JUSTIFIED when it produces needed intelligence that will save and protect the CIVILIZED WORLD. The CIA, FBI HAVE COMMITTED NO CRIME here; they did what they are paid and trained to do. On the other hand, I can name, more than a few, in DC (and elsewhere)who are guilty, GUILTY, GUILTY of the most heinous crimes imaginable, but are never held to account – -simply because they are “who they are”! (I would start right in the oval office) In case anyone forgot – -”NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW”!

    • eyeswideopen

      June, your whole premise is a contradiction. Laws mean that we don’t pick and choose which ones we might like to enforce today, according to what outcome we want. Read the Geneva Convention.

      • Al

        The Geneva Convention applies to recognizable soldiers, not enemy combatants that AI represents, and who are undistinguihable from other civilians.
        Our enhanced interrogation, including waterboarding, does not compare to Islamic treatment of our forces which is beheading, beating to death, burning to death, dragging to death and execution by weapons. Our enemies light interrogation would be breaking your arms and legs.

  • Barb

    Clair, I’m sorry, you’re not a zealot, however there are a few on this site. I also agree with you that this has been brewing for many years and that both parties politicians are corrupt. However it stated back in the 60′s with the Democrats and their make love not war movement and they pushed that way of thinking through very steadily and quietly over the years. We are all to blame for letting it happen. Having said that, no matter what happened or who was in charge in the past at least we could say they were pretty much still proud to be American and uphold American ideals. Now however is different, we have a Democratic President who seems to be ashamed to be American and wants to destroy our very core and foundation that our country was founded on. AND the dems in the Senate and House seems to be behind him 100% or most of them anyway. This terrifies me frankly. I have never been anti anything anyone or any group because of their political persuasion till now and the more this goes on, the more I learn, the more frightened I get for my kids and grand kids. Google “Organizing for America” talk about scary! You’ll see what I mean. Sorry again, we need to stick together for the good of this country.

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