Comments Subscribe to Personal Liberty News Feed Subscribe to Personal Liberty
 

Human Rights Group Requests Investigation Regarding Bush’s Waterboarding Admission

November 15, 2010 by  

Human rights group requests investigation regarding Bush's waterboarding admissionAmnesty International, a prominent human rights organization, is calling for a criminal investigation into former President George W. Bush’s role in the use of interrogation techniques against detainees.

In his memoirs Decision Points, Bush confirmed his personal involvement in authorizing waterboarding and other torture techniques in order to obtain information from suspected terrorists. The former President claimed that waterboarding saved British lives by extracting critical intelligence from detainees.

UK officials who were familiar with the counter-terrorism activities during the time of Bush’s authorization have dismissed his claims that British lives were saved as a direct result of waterboarding. Amnesty International, a Nobel Peace Prize-winning, grassroots activist organization, suggests that Bush’s involvement should be investigated because waterboarding is prohibited by international law.

However, not everyone has vilified this admission. According to The Huffington Post, Representative Peter King (R-N.Y.) has defended Bush’s recent revelations. King, who is likely to become the next chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee, said that the former commander-in-chief “should get a medal” for his authorization of waterboarding.

“In the big picture, to hold someone’s head underwater, the chance of permanent damage is minimal and the rewards are great,” said King, quoted by the news provider.

Special To Personal Liberty

You Sound Off! is written by our readers and appears the last Wednesday of each month. If you would like to submit an article or letter to the editor for consideration for You Sound Off!, send it to yousoundoff@personalliberty.com by the Friday before the last Wednesday of the month. To be considered, a submission should be 750 words or less and must include the writer's name, address and a telephone number. Only the writer's name will be published. Anonymous submissions will not be considered.

Facebook Conversations

Join the Discussion:
View Comments to “Human Rights Group Requests Investigation Regarding Bush’s Waterboarding Admission”

Comment Policy: We encourage an open discussion with a wide range of viewpoints, even extreme ones, but we will not tolerate racism, profanity or slanderous comments toward the author(s) or comment participants. Make your case passionately, but civilly. Please don't stoop to name calling. We use filters for spam protection. If your comment does not appear, it is likely because it violates the above policy or contains links or language typical of spam. We reserve the right to remove comments at our discretion.

Is there news related to personal liberty happening in your area? Contact us at newstips@personalliberty.com

  • Angel Wannabe

    “Amnesty International, a prominent human rights organization, is calling for a criminal investigation into former President George W. Bush’s role in the use of interrogation techniques against detainees”_______First of all, who the hell cares, what his role was!!!__What is it that these bleeding hearts don’t inderstand here?___”Terrorists” (ya know the BAD GUYS”) hijacked our planes, THEY took our people hostage, crashed those planes in New York, the Pentegon and in a Pennsylvanis field______as a result 3000 people were killed!!!!
    __If the Bush team caught some of the Masterminds of 9/11, slapped them around a little bit, poured some water over they’re heads to makem’ talk, If I were them, I’d be damn glad I was still alive to bitch about it!___Ya know what, Bleeding hearts, ya need to get a life, shut up and Stay out of it!__BOTTOM LINE IS, it Doesn’t matter what Bush would’ve done, it will never be right!__

    • http://naver sook young

      I agree with you Angel. Why are they concerned about this matter, when they could be looking at a woman who has been unnecessarily punished for years because she won her country’s election? The woman from Myanmar named Shu Ki. President Bush did what he though was in the best interest of the American people and the protecting of our great country. I can understand what this group does, but they don’t need to involve themselves on this matter. Thank you.

      Sook Young
      Wife of the Samurai

      • Robert Smith

        Hey, please pay attention sook young…

        This is from Amnesty International. Seems you don’t appreciate what they are advocating for, but in fact it sure looks like you want the same thing they do. From: http://www.amnestyusa.org/

        “There is a time to be quiet and a time to talk. People must work in unison. Only then can we achieve our goal.” – Freed prisoner of conscience Aung San Suu Kyi

        After being detained for 15 of the last 20 years, democracy leader and Nobel Peace Prize laureate Aung San Suu Kyi has finally been released!

        Thank you to the thousands of you who have joined us in calling for her release. Suu Kyi’s release is a symbol of the hope and passion that must be harnessed to ensure that the rest of the 2,200 political prisoners in Myanmar will also one day soon experience freedom.”

        Maybe if you didn’t get your news from samurai you might be just a little more informed. Please form your own opinions. Knee jerks just don’t cut it in today’s world.

        Rob

        • Angel Wannabe

          RS, Samuria is her husband you twit, and besides she’s a big girl able to decide what she reads and believes!!!

          • Dan az

            Wow girls now thats what I call a defense you all make me proud!

          • http://naver sook young

            Thank you, Dan AZ!

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

          • Robert Smith

            Form Angel, “RS, Samuria is her husband…”

            I know. But, this is America and folks can form their own opinions and aren’t slaves to anyone, including husbands… Particularly when they are patently wrong.

            Rob

          • http://naver sook young

            I do have my own opinions, Robert. I’ve already formed an opinion that you are not very intelligent and are nothing but an instigater and very arguementative. You’re also still upset from the great losses your party took at the polls two weeks ago. Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

        • Granny Mae

          RS,

          You certainly are a twit ! I agree with Sook and Angel. Back off and keep in mind that we were and still are at war with these idiots. If you don’t like it maybe we should all begin to pray that the next attack is on your kin not someone elses. Maybe then it would be close enough for you to feel something up close and personal ! To bad it wasn’t me doing all this waterboarding I would have gone way beyond waterboarding and then I wouldn’t have to wait around for the prisoners to cost us years of keeping them alive and the cost of a trial. They would have all been shot for trying to escape ! With bullots soaked in pig blood I might add !

          • Angel Wannabe

            Go Go Granny Mae!!!___I love it!!!

          • Robert Smith

            Oh Granny Mae… That sounds so christian of you. I’m all a-dither with your hopes.

            It helps explain to me why so many in this world hate us.

            Thank you for such a fine example!

            Rob

          • http://naver samurai

            Rob is such a moron! Did she mention anything dealing with Christianity or was she just tearing you a new arse? FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • meteorlady

            RS – here’s an example of waterboarding:

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LPubUCJv58

            Here’s Jesse Ventura on The View talking about it:

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoFfVQPSIOQ&feature=channel

            Make up your own minds if you think its good or bad. We do however, have laws and we should obey or change them legally.

          • Granny Mae

            Robert Smith,

            If you are a muslim, your welcome.

      • eddie47d

        More people of the world need to be concerned about how other nations conduct business and their record on human rights. There are still too many dictatorships out there and we need Amnesty International to help expose the abuses. If the USA goes against international law then they need to be held accountable also. We must set the example to the rest of the world if we want to be that beacon of hope. If we lower our standards then other countries will be encouraged to do worse. We can’t stop what happened in Argentina or what is happening in Zimbabwe but we will always have stronger clout if we don’t stray from the principles of decency. Over the years I have written one letter and signed 3 petitions to secure the release of Aung San Suu Kyi of Myanmar.That is a nation with real election fraud and a military dictatorship.As Suu Kyi has proven it can take decades to change the way a nation is governed. Amnesty International can only bring awareness to the plight of dissidents. Especially those who have been jailed. If not for this organization Suu Kyi and many others would have been out of the spotlight. They would have been tortured and probably killed.

        • Kinetic1

          I couldn’t agree more, eddie. The actions of our former President may seem like nothing in hind sight, but the repercussions could be great. Those of you who applaud Mr. Bush for his action against those who threaten America would do well to remember this the next time one of our own is tortured by a foreign government. When they point to our legal opinion of torture used in the last decade, we will have no legs, legal or moral to stand on.

          • Don Hill

            I cannot believe you think that if we treat enemy nice that they will treat our people good. Well I have news for you. Refer to the way the Japanese treated our military in WW-2, N.Koreans in the Korean Police action, N. Vietnam in the war with them, Iraqi and now Afganistan. They think we are stupid and torture,kill without mercy. They believe that by killing us anyway they can will be their way to paradise. We did not torture the above but they sure did us. Don Hill

          • Vigilant

            Understand, of course, that international conventions don’t mean squat to the rogue nations and terrorists. Understand also, that terrorists usually torture and kill for the mere publicity effect. They will continue to sever heads whether or not we subject their criminals to waterboarding.

            Waterboarding, which has been done on legions of US servicemen, is not life-threatening. It was used on three (3) people to obtain information.

            The liberal notion that we can get inside the heads of terrorists, to “understand” them, leads to the faulty assumption that if we’re nice to them, they’ll stop. Chamberlain and the diplomatic world in general tried that in 1938, and it didn’t succeed. It will never succeed. Liberals don’t understand this.

            Lastly, let’s stop talking about international protocols which have no applicability here. Al Quaeda and other “groups” are not uniformed troops fighting under the aegis of a national armed force.

          • Granny Mae

            Kinetic1,

            What the sam hill are you talking about? We weren’t threatened, we were damn sure attacked and thousands were killed ! Get your mamby pamby brain wrapped around that for a change ! War was waged on us and our Pentegon was attacked ! That is war in any language. Your concerned with us doing a little torture and these people have no concern for that in the least. They think it is to even blow themselvs up or their babies or women. There is no time in history that I remember that whether or not we used torture has had any effect on how our prisoners were treated or mis-treated. Just ask John McCain ! We have always treated our prisoners with far more humanity than any other country in this world and it has made no difference for our men. The difference is only in your imagination ! I have family members that were prisoners of war in both the second world war and in Viet Nam war and I can tell you our policies made no difference except for the other side to use to their advantage. When they wanted something they would play on anything they could use against us while they continued to do just as they always did anyway. If this group can get someone freed then they need to do so but I don’t see that happening so much !

          • Granny Mae

            Thats like saying that the United Nations is a great and useful organization ! BS ! They have not advanced one single countries economy, stopped one single war or brought peace to any place in the world that I have seen. They convene in our country and take as money as they can get from us and then they turn on us like vipers at every turn. They never side with us on any matter before them and still they have the nerve to look this gift horse in the mouth ! I would like to see the whole bunch of them expelled from our soil and told to take and put it where the sun don’t shine ! I’m tired of this country coming to the aid of every pittiful soul in the world and then being kicked and hit by every other country in the world and have them come here and stand on our soil and call us names and complain of how bad we are. Then when our own citizens side with them and stand out in public and give creedance to their complaints. I say if any of you don’t like the way things are done here then there is the door don’t let it hit you on the way out ! Go to Russia, China or any other country and spout off the way you do here and see how far you get. I don’t see some of you out here really appreciate this country at all. A lot of you want to see it changed to the same thing as Russia but I don’t see any of you all excited about moving there ! What do you think that you can make those kind of changes and still retain your freedom? Wrong, once you succeed in changing this nation you will have given up your freedom forever !

          • Angel Wannabe

            At’s what I’m sayin Granny Mae!!!!__You tell’em girl!!!

          • http://naver sook young

            Granny Mae, you go girl! This looks like the girls are wiping the floor with the liberals today. I agree with you and I hope you keep posting. Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

          • eddie47d

            Angel; No dictatorship here, and for even saying that I don’t believe you have any clue what a true dictatorship is!!

          • meteorlady

            Don – there are still standards and laws. What we did, as Jesse says, is set up the Hanoi Hilton in Guantanamo. That’s just not right if we preach to the rest of the world about being civil, obeying international laws for prisoners, etc.

            I’m not saying waterboarding is really bad or good. I’m just saying that we once condemned it when the Japanese used it during WWII and we should have either changed the law or found another way to get our information.

          • meteorlady

            Granny – great post!

        • Angel Wannabe

          eddie47d, Your words eddie>>>>”There are still too many dictatorships out there”

          Ya mean the dictatorsip like Obama’s trying to change America into??

          • Robert Smith

            Remember Angel, Obama was elected!

            Guess elections don’t count for you unless it is people YOU want elected.

            Rob

          • http://naver samurai

            So were Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, and others, so what’s your point in this posting? Maybe the people who voted for them wanted them in office also, but look what happened after they attained position and power. Once they started what they wanted to do, it took millions of people to die to get them out. Hitler and Mussolini, it had to take a world war, countless millions of civilians dead, maybe soldiers too, and 6 million Jews and many others dying in concentration camps before they met their ends. Stalin killed (purged) millions of his own people (10 million from the Ukraine alone.), lost more than 20 million against the Axis Powers, aiding in the Korean War, and eventually dying in office to get him out. Is this kind of what you are talking about, moron? Do I think that Obama bin Laden is as bad as these others mentioned? Maybe, maybe not, but a lot of his policies and this beliefs are strikingly similar in many areas. Look for the patriots of this country to be showing him the door in 2012. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Angel Wannabe

            RS, and Remember Robert, Obama policies were rejected two weeks ago along with his communist thugs!!!

          • http://naver samurai

            Hooooooooooorrrrrrrrraaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh! 100% agree Angel! Keep up the good fight, fellow patriot! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • meteorlady

            Obama was staged since he was a community organizer in Chicago. He ran for the senate and won. While there he never once made any waves and didn’t introduce a single piece of legislation. When he ran for the presidency he was elected because he was hand picked by the Democratic party elites to run.

            There are a few theories as to how that happened. During the last stages of the election Hilliary was ahead. IN Texas we have something that the Democrats came up with to limit who we pick to their people. It’s called the Two-Step and it’s not in anyway considered democratic voting. Seems Democrats in Texas picked Hillary during the primaries when people actually voted. Then, weeks later, there were caucuses – and guess what? Obama came out the winner so he got to be on the ballot. Most caucuses were run by neighborhood people during the afternoon when people were at work or were unable to get there at the hour they were held.

            So, next up comes the start of the Wall Street problems. That was in October and Hillary was still ahead in the poles. The next day some $500 BILLION disappeared from the stock market in just two hours – hastening it’s fall. Many believe that George Soros is the only person with that kind of money and able to pull that type of thing off.

            Obama’s campaign quickly jumped on that with pre-done speeches – within hours of the $500 BILLION disappearing, and low and behold – he was ahead in the polls and ultimately ran for President.

      • Angel Wannabe

        sook young your so right!!___Its over and its done with Bush!___The lIBS looking for someone to blame__the answer to that is for a Liberal to LOOK IN THE MIRROR!

        • http://naver sook young

          Thank you Angel and you go girl!

          Sook Young
          Wife of the Samurai

          • http://naver samurai

            Edduh and Rob should try to understand that they attacked us, are now at war with us and the free world, and you say how we should treat them with compassion and forward them everything that is granted to Americans? Have you two been asleep for the last 9-10 years or what? Who was it that blew up the WTC? It sure wasn’t Bush, now was it? If your going to play, you’re gonna pay. just remember what Union General William T. Sherman said: “War is hell!” This is a fact and cannot be changed. You can’t be nice to these people nor can you try to understand them. The groups we are fighting believe in killing you because you are an American, also because you are Christian. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

            By the way Rob, my wife does very well at forming her own opinions and thinking for herself, moron! I’ve known that since before we were married. I do like smart women, if you don’t mind. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Angel Wannabe

            AMEN, Samurai!!!

          • Granny Mae

            I second that ! Amen

          • http://naver samurai

            Thank you, fellow patriots! Let’s keep up the good fight! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Dan az

            Amen to that samurai!

          • eddie47d

            Samurai; You’d have more credibility if you were more explicate on who attacked us. It certainly wasn’t Iraq or Iran so you create fear against all Muslims. That is like lumping all Christians in the same category and blaming them for the Inquisition.

          • http://naver samurai

            OK edduh! It was alqueda and osama bin laden that attacked us. Sorry, edduh, but what I said before still stands true till today. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

            By the way edduh, they aren’t the only group attacking us or chomping at the bit to do so. You know groups like the taliban, hamas, islamic jihad, and other crazed morons like that. If you don’t know who the enemy is by now, then you’ll never know, now will you? FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • eddie47d

            I’ve been looking but haven’t found any Taliban running around here in America.

          • http://naver samurai

            You asked who we were fighting and I answered you. Though we have found terror cells of Al Queda in America during Bush’s first term. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            Hey samurai, why do you lie about my position? You posted: “…and you say how we should treat them with compassion and forward them everything that is granted to Americans?”

            Flat out, that’s a lie.

            I’ve posted several times that I think we should speak the language of terrorists. Their language is violence and terror. We should speak that, louder and with more certainty.

            If they kill Americans, we find out who did it, and we take out their village. That is speaking in ther language, but louder.

            Again, quit lying about my position.

            Rob

          • http://naver samurai

            OK Rob, I’ll agree with you on that statement, but why is it you abhor people torturing others and feel its OK to torture and kill babies? That don’t seem right for a patriot to believe in taking the life of a child is OK, but torturing prisoners isn’t? FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            samurai asks: “but why is it you abhor people torturing others”

            According to John McCain it doesn’t work. This is from http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/30/mccain-whacks-cheney-tort_n_272179.html:
            “In a strong pushback against claims made by former Vice President Dick Cheney, Sen. John McCain insisted on Sunday that the use of torture on terrorism suspects violated international law, didn’t work, and actually helped al Qaeda recruit additional members.”

            From samurai: “…and feel its OK to torture and kill babies?”

            Why do you continue to lie about my positions? Your screed about it’s a baaaaybeeee just doesn’t wash. Even among catholics there is a different point of view. Check out “catholics for a free choice.” Their position is that among themselves they don’t have abortions, but they understand that others, even other christians, have a differen’t point of view. They respect that if they don’t respect others and their beliefs that their beliefs can easily come under attack.

            Silly samurai tries to claim he is a superpartio. Let’s watch how he tries to define Americans: “That don’t seem right for a patriot to believe in taking the life of a child is OK, but torturing prisoners isn’t?”

            Linking religious belief to being an American… Bzzzzz, wrong again. Remember: Article 6 of the Constitution states: “No religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.”

            Again from samurai: “FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!”

            Really. Putting your god above my country! Now that’s an insult while showing your self centered attitude. Thanks for being so clear about that.

            Rob

          • http://naver sook young

            I have checked out that site, Robert, and it doesn’t support any Catholic ideals, not any ideals of Christianity. Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

      • WTH

        This is, most likely another planned distraction to get the eyes off of the real problem… the economy and the financial mess this country is in with foreclosure fraud, bailouts, etc. Bush will never be prosecuted, just like Rangel will never be prosecuted. He will get a slap on the wrist and that will be all. The Mosque at Ground Zero was another necessary distraction because, as we all know, it just kind of “went away.”

    • EddieW

      America used to hold it’s head high, but evidently now we think torture is ok….So be prepared to be tortured!!! It’s coming down fast!!! All hell is going to break upon us, yet this year!!! Bush & Cheney should be tried for TREASON…and torture…He raped our Constitution, and now they can arrest you, hold you indefinitely without charge. and you have no right to an attorney!!! Also the Military can be used against the populace…and it’s going to be!!
      Kiss your freedom’s goodbye!! You won’t be having them for much longer!! Enbjoy your slavery!!!

      • Don Hill

        I am a veteran of the Korean police action and one of the many things we were trained for was how to resist confinement and torture if captured. We expected to be tortured and I am sure that our current Military has been trained similarly. We have held our AMERICAN head up since R.R. was president and including G.W.B., but Obama now has us bowing our head to whatever King or Dictator he meets. GWB has kept the terarest from killing any more of us at home. Don Hill

        • Angel Wannabe

          Well said and Thank You for your service Don Hill!!!

          • http://naver samurai

            100% agree Don! Keep up the good fight, fellow patriot! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

            Samurai
            E7, USA, INF, 11H
            Retired

        • eddie47d

          No where does Obama endorse torture or even cozy up to terrorists. That is only Conservative verbal abuse where they will say anything on their road to power.

          • Angel Wannabe

            yess eddie47d__Yes ___yadda, yadda, yadda!!!

          • Granny Mae

            eddie47d

            Really? Well he sure does kiss ass to all the muslims he comes in contact with now doesn’t he ! That is as plain as the pimple on your nose !

          • Angel Wannabe

            Ditto Granny Mae!!!

          • eddie47d

            No one is allowed to even talk to a Muslim or you will be accused of Ass kissing or being Un-American. Can We talk to a Mexican or will we be grounded? How far do you want to take this?

          • Dan az

            No Edieeeeee
            Maybe he was just checking out their shine on their shoes and was going to touch them up for them!

          • eddie47d

            It’s not a rule on this site that you have to be sleazy but I think most of us can figure out what you meant.

        • Robert Smith

          From Don Hill: “GWB has kept the terarest from killing any more of us at home.”

          And Clinton’s people warned the Bush administration and was ignored.

          BTW, how many were killed on American soil during Clinton’s years?

          Rob

          • http://naver samurai

            Well, rob, just add up how many died on the U.S.S. Cole, our embassies in East Africa (An embassy is concidered American soil), Kobar Towers, and the WTC in 1993. I don’t know if it was 3000 or not, but it was a heavy toll on Americans. Check your facts before you post! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            Hey samurai,

            The WTC was on Bush’s watch even though the Clinton administration warned him.

            Sheesh, how can you forget what actually went on so fast? Oh, that’s right… The BIG LIE. Let’s think in terms of a reich wing agenda.

            Rob

          • http://naver samurai

            Darn, rob! You’re such a moron. Didn’t you see the date of 1993 I put on my post? Who was the president then azz hole? FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Dan az

            Robert the last count I got for clinton was 64 of his closest.

      • Granny Mae

        EddieW

        Get a real life ! It is people like you that have taken the pride of this nation and stomped it in the ground and allowed others to do it too. You are dispicable !

      • meteorlady

        Kiss my freedom goodbye? What the heck – I don’t really have any anyway. I watched a thing on True TV the other day and Jesse Ventura went through exactly what the government is doing with regard to the patriot act. It’s certainly not freedom and every single person is being monitored – your internet activity, your phone conversations, etc.

        We are also moving toward One World Government and that’s the most slave ridden system in the world. Look that the people of Europe – they have let their governments join the European Community and now they are just states within the organization. They have lost their autonomy as a nation and now have to bail out all the other nations that didn’t do as well. Eventually even the most powerful and economic stable countries will come down to the level of the rest because they now have to support each other – all in the interest of the “common good”.

        We are not free. If we were we would have elections where we didn’t have political parties manipulating us into believing that we get the best they have to offer to vote for. We have been brainwashed into believing that if we don’t vote for one of the two parties – we have wasted our votes. We hear all this over and over again so that the masses finally believe it’s true.

        We will never have free elections in this country again until we give equal time to every single person that wants to run for an office and take the parties out of the equation. They have long ago sold themselves to the banking elites and the One World Order advocates.

        • Dan az

          meteorlady
          I can only hope that millions of people saw that too.Know matter what we do the game has been in play for a very long time now,and all we can do is hope that enough people wake up before its to late even if it means take up arm.There is know easy or fast solution to what is needed Im afraid, but where not quitters and they know it, so its going to come down to them versus us and the more of the newly awakend will help to build our numbers.

    • Dogma-Free

      Since when does it not matter what the president does??

      First of all, the word “terrorist” is just a label slapped on to a certain group of individuals, by a bunch of hawks in Washington. Funny thing is, those folks you now call “terrorists”, used to be called “freedom fighters”, and “ALLIES”, not too long ago…AND…here’s the kicker…those organizations now labeled as “terrorist organizations” (Al Qaeda, and the Taliban) were created and equipped by the AMERICAN GOVERNMENT…(I’ll pause, so you can let that sink in)…that’s right, the American government gave WEAPONS AND CASH to Al Qaeda and the Taliban, through the CIA…because the CIA certainly doesn’t mind getting dirt (or blood) on their hands.

      I’d also encourage you to look into the history of the Middle East, and in particular, how America has been meddling in the Middle East since World War II. It might shed some light on why those so-called “terrorists” might be kinda pissed off at America. (hint: it’s because of what America has done to them, not who America is, or what the people believe in).

      Then again, if you’re so militant-minded, and you really have a chip on your shoulder, I’d encourage you to join the army, and go over there, and start killing the Muslims/Middle Easterners/”terrorists” yourself…that way, you can personally see to it that “justice” is served (as you see it).

      Also, Bush knew in advance (as per his August 6th PDB) that the WTC towers were going to be attacked, and he still didn’t bother to put a contingency/evacuation plan in place…!?!! That screams to me of his complicit involvement in the overall plan of the attack itself, or just absolutely horrifyingly gross incompetence…and since the Bush family and the Bin Laden families were good ol’buddies (and wealthy oil business partners), and considering he had many advisors (and all those hawks the Republicans love so much), I’d say it was more a case of the former, than the latter. Wouldn’t you agree?

      • Vigilant

        That’s about the kind of response I’d expect from a wacko who actually believes the 9/11 conspiracy BS. Bow down and worship your god, Michael Moore.

        • Robert Smith

          Hey Vigilant, I’ve seen you attempting to disparage Michael Moore several times. Let’s see the most recent from you: “Bow down and worship your god, Michael Moore.”

          In fact have you found ANYTHING that is in his 911 movie? Nobody has yet. Yup, it’s facts. It seems like you have an alergy to them but he’s presented the facts.

          For example, can you explain why it took Bush 7 minutes to excuse himself from a bunch of kids after he was told we were under attack?

          Rob

          • http://naver sook young

            Can you tell us why President Clinton bombed an aspirin factory in the Sudan and abandoned camps in Afghanistan just to keep the press from asking him about his girlfriend Monika Lewinsky? Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

          • eddie47d

            Sook, Good grief they have pictures of those camps in Afghanistan and Bin Laden was standing right there. That was a wise choice even if they did miss the intended target. Bombing the aspirin factory was a bad move. So you are 1 for 1. Thank You

          • http://naver samurai

            I agree with you on the fact that the Clinton administration didn’t get Osama, Ed. He had 3 chances to do so and chose not to do it. If he would have done so, would we be in Afghanistan and Iraq now? FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

      • Vigilant

        “Funny thing is, those folks you now call “terrorists”, used to be called “freedom fighters…”

        No, Mr. Dogma-laden, it’s the dishonest people of the left who are guilty of that charge. In their attempt to rationalize and justify the terrorism of the PLO, Hezbollah, and Hamas against Israel, the left would rather try a word trick than face the obvious head on.

        Freedom fighters can choose to be terrorists or non-terrorists. A terrorist purposefully and intentionally targets the innocents in a population to wreak the maximum amount of fear and chaos. The Palestinians are terrorists and a majority subscribe to terrorism as a means to an end. In all fairness, some Jews used terrorist methods back in the 40s to get the UK out of Palestine, but they long ago renounced that as an instrument of policy, and have become the only democratic form of government in that region.

        “AND…here’s the kicker…those organizations now labeled as “terrorist organizations” (Al Qaeda, and the Taliban) were created and equipped by the AMERICAN GOVERNMENT…(I’ll pause, so you can let that sink in)…that’s right, the American government gave WEAPONS AND CASH to Al Qaeda and the Taliban, through the CIA.”

        LMAO. That’s old news. Maybe you just discovered it, but we intelligent people have known about it for a long time. What’s your point?

        • Granny Mae

          Vigilant,

          Thank You for sticking it to this idiot ! He doesn’t even know the difference of a freedom fighter and a terrorist ! Lord help us !

      • Vigilant

        Dogma-slave opines, “I’d also encourage you to look into the history of the Middle East, and in particular, how America has been meddling in the Middle East since World War II. It might shed some light on why those so-called “terrorists” might be kinda pissed off at America. (hint: it’s because of what America has done to them, not who America is, or what the people believe in).”

        Yes, America was complicit in the crime of 9/11. We were asking for it, weren’t we? Only a twisted leftie and an Imam can come up with that sort of hatred for America.

        I take it you blame America for the Fort Hood shootings. Yes, they really got what they deserved, didn’t they? You’re certifiable.

        For one who calls himself, “Dogma-Free,” you’ve sure lapped up the dogma of the left, haven’t you?

        • Angel Wannabe

          Well said Vigilant!!!!

          • Granny Mae

            Yes, well said

        • eddie47d

          So you think it’s okay for the CIA to give weapons to al Qaeda and then sit back and wonder why they are such a nemesis? That is the point. Ronald Reagan armed Iraq to the teeth and you wonder why the Middle East is on fire. You better turn you conscience into rehab if you think it’s okay to stir up wars around the world and then blame everybody else.Another thing,Bob Livingston believes that 9/11 is a conspiracy so will you dare call him a Wacko?

          • http://naver samurai

            You’re part right edduh! Arming other groups could come back and bite us in the backside, but if you remember right, when we were arming Iraq they were dealing with a bigger nutcase at the time. The Ayatollah from Iran. His goals were to:

            1. Recreate the Persian Empire. He wanted to not just conquer Iraq, but also Syria, Turkey, Lebanon, Jordan, Israel, and take control of Egypt.
            2. Make the world more dependent on them for oil. Just think about that. If Iran had attained its goals under his leadership, oil would be a lot more expensive than it is now. He would control the Suez Canal and the Straights of Hormuz. Think of how many millions of barrels of oil pass through them on a daily basis. We would have to pay Iran just to use or sail through them. Also, Iran would control a good portion of the world’s oil and could jack up the price as much as they wanted to. just think, we could be paying $10.00 a gallon if that had happened.
            3. To spread his message of how great “allah” is and how the world should convert to his message. this would include slaying of those thought of as “infidels” by the koran. You know, the killing of Jews and Christians because we believe in the true God and not the one made up by some pirate, murdered, and child molester.

            Though things have turned out someways like you said edduh, just imagine what would happen if we didn’t. Yes, we armed al queda to fight the Russians in Afghanistan, in which we were victorious. We can also say that about groups we sent and supported in Cuba, led by Fidel Castro. How about the Bosnian Muslims we supported under Clinton? How about the military regime in Argentina before they attacked the Faulkland Islands? How about the Nationalist Chinese under Chaing Kai Shek? How about our supporting of a communist dictator named Tito in Yugoslavia? Many things we have done haven’t necessarily come back to bite us, but it should be thought of as: “Is this the right thing to do?” I’ll let you think about these things for awhile. I reall hope you can answer these edduh. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Vigilant

            eddie:

            “Another thing, Bob Livingston believes that 9/11 is a conspiracy so will you dare call him a Wacko?”

            Here we have eddie, who stands for just about everything that Bob Livingston rejects and abhors, and then drops his name as authority for a point of view that eddie just happens to have in common with him. What a hoot!

            I’m not going to engage in a drawn out argument regarding the holes in the 9/11 conspiracy theory. I feel the theory was discredited some time ago by Popular Mechanics and others.

            Notwithstanding the merits or demerits of the theory, one thing stands out front and center, and it’s something that the theorists turn their backs on every time: in an operation requiring scores if not hundreds of co-comspirators, I’ve not heard of ONE leak. That, my friend, in this age of “honor among thieves,” is simply impossible.

          • Granny Mae

            Yes. If Bob Livingston thinks 9/11 was a conspiresy then so be it. I think he is a nut case ! Who cares ?

          • Angel Wannabe

            Vigilant__I heard some stuff about Prescott Bush and Remember Pappa Bush talking on more than one occasion about NWO, But I’m not so sure that Dubya was totally on board with all that!_-It’ll all come out eventually___-”God says whatever is done in secret will be revealed!”

          • meteorlady

            When Bush Sr. was head of the CIA he advocated (quietly) One World Order. There were books by ex CIA people that brought all this to light and they were written way back when Bush Sr. was still CIA chief. OWO is not new to us, but it’s new to a lot more people now than it ever was.

            People like the Bushes, Clintons, Obama, etc. meet quietly with the elites to find out what their next steps are to be. That has been so for a long long time. I think the last President we actually had that quit on them because he no longer believed in the concept, was John F. Kennedy and we all know what happened to him.

      • Don Hill

        YES it matters greatly what the president says and does. President GEORGE W. BUSH made the tough decisions that were required to protect our country and people. I thank GOD that we were blessed to have GWB for our president during the 9-11 crisis. I am ex-military and if I could serve again, I would be there standing tall even though I am 75 years old. I love my country second only to GOD. I had one Great Great Great grandfather fought in Washington’s army, three Great grandfathers in the Civil War ( 2in union and one for the south), ! grandfather in WW-1, Father in WW-2 , I am Korean Veteran and I also have family in Iraq and Afganistan so you can see my family understands that FREEDOM IS NOT FREE. If you start to pay for your freedom instead of thinking of it as your right just because you were born here, maybe you will understand. Try moving to the mid-east or some African country and I bet you would. Don Hill

        • Vigilant

          Bravo!

        • Granny Mae

          Don Hill,

          Thanks for your service and the service of all your family. Some of these idiots out here have no clue what it is to be in the military during a war ! Too bad, they would sure come back with a different attitude !

      • meteorlady

        Dogma – do you actually believe that we don’t know what’s going on. We do and we don’t like it. What would you have us do? We are stopped in our tracks when it comes to elections and we are unable to get control of our federal government. Seems that they have power and plan on keeping it. They will continue with their world escapades and we can do nothing it seems to stop them except stop working for them.

        I certainly don’t believe that meddling in the middle east was a wise decision, but it was all about oil in the beginning and it’s still pretty much all about oil and control.

        The One World Order advocates love the fact that we get involved – it helps their cause. They get more UN time and publicity and we get slammed again and again.

        It is irresponsible for us to believe that if we pulled out of the world and just kept to ourselves we would be OK. That’s isn’t going to happen now or ever again. Maybe once we could have, but not now.

    • PROUDPATRON

      I was going to say a lot of things to express how I feel toward these self-righteous bleeding hearts American hateing crippled too high for crutches people, but they wouldn’t understand it anyway so why waste my time. But to all you Americans that do understand what needs to be done and have the smarts to see through what this administration is trying, I say “PLEASE KEEP UP THE GOOD FIGHT” and Angel Wannabe I liked what you had to say, as I did each and everyone that posted on this, that were smart enough to know the difference between what’s fair and unfair remembering war is hell, but we must do all that’s in our power to win.

  • Teresa

    AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL….kinda says it all doesn’t it??? I mean really…did they investigate ANY of the CAIR or the Hamas or the Obama administration???? Geezeee….get real….or even the UN…what a joke this has become….!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • Angel Wannabe

      Teresa, these beedin heart idiots can’t see beyond the end of they’re noses!

    • Vigilant

      I have the feeling that Amnesty Int’l was goaded into JUST NOW complaining about Bush, after all these years, because the Dems have run through their card file on Bush-bashables and have started at the beginning again.

      • Angel Wannabe

        Vigilant, Yepper____Bush is getting a little attention of the good kind right now, because of his book, and God forbide the lefties can’t have that!!!!

        • eddie47d

          Bush has been condemned on the left and right for sacrificing our freedoms.His pushing us into the Iraq War is nothing to be proud of; and going into pre-emptive wars is usually a sign of a weak leader not one who is courageous.(except to nationalists).

          • Angel Wannabe

            BUSH was condemed for the PATRIOT ACT,___ QUITE HONESTLY EDDIE, I NEVER HEARD MY CELL PHONE CLICK AND SWITCH, WHILE BUSH WAS PRSIDENT, LIKE IT DOES NOW, 2 YEARS LATER__NOW I WONDER WHO’S ABUSED THE PATRIOT ACT MORE???____

          • http://naver samurai

            100% agree with you Angel! Keep up the good fight, fellow patriot! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            From Angel Wannabe: “NOW I WONDER WHO’S ABUSED THE PATRIOT ACT MORE???____”

            Do you have any examples of Obama misusing the Patriot act, or is it just another reich wing screed?

            Rob

          • http://naver sook young

            Robert, I’m sorry to say that he not only extended it (He didn’t have it overturned or repealed by executive order.), but he also broadened the scope of the effects of it. President Bush never bugged anyones phone, but I’ll bet Obama has already done it. Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

          • Angel Wannabe

            RS, I don’t need examples< I live it!!___My phone is fairly new phone, it clicks constantly when I'm talking___It never did that before!!!!__You can believe what ever you want!!!

          • Robert Smith

            Sook young you really do need some inforation before you make wild clains about Bush and wire tapping.

            From the N.Y. Times, (2005-12-16) “President George Bush today apologized to the American people for signing an order in 2002 that allowed the National Security Agency (NSA) to secretly listen in on international phone calls in the wake of the 9/11 terror attacks.”

            The New York Times broke the story that after 9/11 the NSA tapped phonelines of hundreds, and perhaps thousands, of Americans without court orders in an effort to trace communication networks discovered on computers and cellphones confiscated from terror suspects.

            It did absolutely no good.

            Rob

          • http://naver sook young

            President Bush may have had legislation passed on this matter, but I said that he hasn’t personally ordered any after it was passed. Obama has already done this by expanding the range of the Patriot Act 1 & 2. Geesh, please try to read what someone has posted before you respond. Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

            This comment is for Robert.

          • meteorlady

            Blame Bush….. gads, that’s so old. Maybe if people actually studied Bush a little they would give it up. The man was President. Presidents have made mistakes, but the fact is that the entire congress voted on weather to go to war. They all had the same information/intelligence that Bush had and they voted YES. Ted Kennedy made a wonderful patriotic speech before voting YES and you might want to read it.

            Things are the way they are because the elites want crisis so they can gain more and more control. Try the full body scanners at the airport…
            one guy with not even enough explosives to burn a hole in his pants is captured and yahoo – we have full body scanners. Where did that fellow go? What was his sentence? Was he a dupe so the scanner people could gain access to that market? Hmmmmmm……..

          • eddie47d

            Sook; If Obama signed an order then he his responsible for what is done with that order. The same goes for Bush which was explained to you by Robt.

          • http://naver samurai

            OK edduh and rob, can you two tell me when Bush had someone’s phone tapped? Give your sources and detailed case info. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            Samurai, you seem to have missed my post: “From the N.Y. Times, (2005-12-16) “President George Bush today apologized to the American people for signing an order in 2002 that allowed the National Security Agency (NSA) to secretly listen in on international phone calls in the wake of the 9/11 terror attacks.”

            The New York Times broke the story that after 9/11 the NSA tapped phonelines of hundreds, and perhaps thousands, of Americans without court orders in an effort to trace communication networks discovered on computers and cellphones confiscated from terror suspects.

            It did absolutely no good.”

            Those orders came from the top.

            BTW, by YOUR standard you are supposed to prove me & the N.Y. Times wrong. Why the double standard?

            Rob

            Rob

          • http://naver samurai

            Hey rob, can’t you give me a person’s name, address, etc, to tell me exactly where Bush had someone’s phone tapped? That’s what I was asking for and not the left wing extremist run around, moron. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

    • Michael J.

      Teresa,
      This is nothing more than a liberal/communist tactic to demonize President Bush. Amnesty International is funded by George Soros and therefore there is no surprise that this organization directs a grossly disporportionate share of it’s criticism for human rights violations at the United States and Israel.

      • Angel Wannabe

        Well said Michael J!!

      • Robert Smith

        Michael J. proclaims: “this organization directs a grossly disporportionate share of it’s criticism for human rights violations at the United States and Israel.”

        Do you have any numbers that support that? Looks to me like it’s a bogus claim from another reich wing shouter.

        Clue: Shouting it out often doesn’t make it a fact until you prove it.

        Rob

        • http://naver samurai

          How about following your own advice and citing your sources rob? I’ll be waiting for your answer. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            There you go again, samurai… I ask a QUESTION about sources and you, as a tactic, demand that I prove someone elses claim to be wrong.

            Sheesh, why don’t you get a contribution from one of those reich wing organizations and try to buy some credibility.

            Rob

          • Michael J.

            Robert Smith,
            Have you been away lately? Or are you just ignoring the fact that Republicans earned a mountain of credibility on November 2nd from the ones who count, the voters.

          • http://naver samurai

            Just look at the poll numbers from November 2nd! That should be enough of a source for you. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

        • Michael J.

          Robert Smith,
          No problem, but you can do your own leg work. Simply go to Discover the Networks and you will find what you seek.

          P. S. I noticed you didn’t even dispute the fact that Amnesty International is funded by George Soros which in it’s self is a testament to the organizations coruption.

          • Robert Smith

            From Michael J.: “P. S. I noticed you didn’t even dispute the fact that Amnesty International is funded by George Soros…”

            No need to. The attacks on Amnisty International and George Soros are gratuitous, without any factual backing, and a clear tactic without any substance.

            Rob

          • Michael J.

            Robert Smith,
            So you are saying that Amnesty International and George Soros are beyond reproach, don’t ask any questions? Something akin to Obama’s birth certificate and Obamacare, just get in the backseat and shut-up.
            Typical default liberal reply.

        • Angel Wannabe

          Robert Smith__We’re a little lazy aren’t we??___If ya want info here, ya dig for it yourself___we’re not your servents!!!

          • Robert Smith

            And I don’t believe lies. Without documentation I view the reich wing folks around here as simply making things up.

            If you want to be believed supply documentation to your claims. Don’t try to squirm out simply with tactics. That simply adds lies to lies.

            Rob

          • http://naver sook young

            When you say reich all the time, are you referring to us as NAZI’s? I take offense to that, considering you have no idea what it would be like to live in those conditions. My family lived under the thumb of the Japanese for years, so I know what it is like. If all you can do is sound ignorant, then please stay home and let us talk. Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

          • Michael J.

            Robert Smith said:
            “I don’t believe lies. Without documentation”
            Yet you beleive without question that Obama was born in Hawaii?
            Do you bow on thyne knees while the Messiah sayeth, “Blessed are those who beleiveth in me without seeing”?

            P.S. Your statement, “I don’t believe lies, Without documentation” is a contradiction in terms which actually implies that you beleive lies if provided with documentation. So much for left wing superior intellect through education.

          • http://naver samurai

            Now Michael, we both know that rob didn’t let his schooling interfere with his education. What little education a lib tends to have. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            From sook young who asks me: “When you say reich all the time, are you referring to us as NAZI’s?”

            Not really. What I’m referring to is the First and Second Reich that so inspired Hitler. They were religious organizations that were nasty and mean as they were very much inspired by the Inquisitions.

            Don’t you think that hyper religiousity and the folks who follow it are a majority in America? It is certainly that the reich wing is but they claim it, just as you and samurai procoaim your reichness is inspired by your god.

            One thing to remember ’bout that is our Constitution begins, “We the PEOPLE…” not the apparently sick inspiration of a god that inspires people to kill BORN doctors.

            Rob

            Rob

          • http://naver sook young

            We in the medical field don’t really think of them as doctors, Rob. Many of us tend to shun such people. There was a doctor that worked in our hospital and he was known for doing these things to women. Three years ago, we had a “cleaning of the house” and all upper level management was replaced with new people. They reviewed all contracts and created an amendment to all contracts that was required to be signed by all employees. It was something called a “morals clause”. Under this clause it outlined the “immoral” behavior that wouldn’t be tolerated at our hospital. The new director finally came to the section dealing with abortions. He read that no one that worked at his hospital would be allowed to do such operations, whether on or off the job. After reading each section, he would call out the names of people who were performing actions against what this clause stated. He them gave them a choice of “shape up or ship out.” Needless to say some people, to count the doctor in question were left with a big choice to make. Almost all of the people in question stated that they would comply to the new regulations, but this doctor stood up and asked: “why he had to sign?” He told some of the same things you always say about the subject. You know the physical, psychological, and effects on society by performing abortions. He even said that as long as what he was doing wasn’t illegal, they had to stay out of his buisiness. The director told him these simple statements:

            1. Show me in the Constitution where it says you can do anything you want. It isn’t there. No humanism in the Constitution.
            2. Show me in this copy of the Hypocratic Oath that agrees with you. It isn’t in there either.
            3. As a doctor, your job is to heal the sick and injured and not take the lives of people. No matter their present physical condition, age, or stage in life.
            4. If you can’t do what is morally or ethically right, then there may be no room for you at our hospital.
            5. Can you tell me at this time what is your decision?

            Needless to say, that doctor has never been heard from again for 3 years. So please don’t tell me your unprofound nonsense on this matter. If you really want to know about this subject, try to look at it from a woman’s point of view and not the ways of liberals and marxists, who don’t care about the sanctity of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

  • Mick

    Good morning Angel……………..

    I can’t believe that Amnesty international is actually sticking their nose so far in to our business, who in the hell do they think they are.These human rights organizations will be the end for our country, they seem to pay more attention to what the united states does than what ‘s going on with the massacres in third world countries.
    Defending terrorists and criminals shouldn’t never take priority over the lives of decent human beings, they are a leftist organization if I ever heard of one……………..

    • eddie47d

      What terrorists and criminals do they defend? Nelson Mandela and Suu Kyi? You know little about this organization but you sprout much incorrect information. They are helping Iranian dissidents right now and trying to keep them alive. Isn’t that in our best interest?

      • Angel Wannabe

        eddie47d, I know enough to be dangerous eddie, and that amnesty international is a left leaning group, hell bent along with others, to interfer in the war efforts. Half of them have no military experience and are trying to make war, someone place people want to go for a vacation. There alot of things in life that are unpleasant, now you can ignore it, or think it our of existance, or try to change the language of it, BUT war is hell & that WILL NOT GO AWAY!__Call a spade a spade!

        • eddie47d

          ” Half of who has no military experience and wants to start wars?” Who are you talking about?Vacations?

          • Angel Wannabe

            eddie what I’m getting at is, no matter how you change the language, and stop all of your so called torture technics, and try to be a nice guy on the battle field, war is still war, your there to win it, and someone is gonna die!

          • eddie47d

            Angel: The Iran Contra plot was a Republican affair and that didn’t work out to well. So there are plenty of bad apples for you to throw around.

          • http://naver sook young

            Wouldn’t there also be a “lot of bad apples” in the Clinton-Lewinsky affair? How about Obama and ACORN? Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

        • Robert Smith

          Posted: “Half of them have no military experience and are trying to make war,”

          Do you mean like Bush and Chaney? Oops, Bush’s “experience” is suspect but Chaney had ZERO. That’s half of the leadership at the very top of the Bush administration.

          Rob

          • http://naver samurai

            At least Bush had some, but Obama bin Laden has ZERO! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

    • Angel Wannabe

      I’m hearin that Mick!!!

      • eddie47d

        Stop sacrificing yourself on the altar of war and torture. History is seldom kind to those who encourage it especially the follies of our current wars. We aren’t even breaking even on taking the high ground.Too many of you think we can start wars,arm nations,exploit resources(Where the revenue goes into the hands of princes and dictators) and not affect the average citizen in these countries. That’s a perfect breeding ground for terrorists. Looks like the next big blowup will be in Nigeria where the sides are being drawn up right now. Where oil money stays in the hands of a few and the environment is being destroyed by these oil companies. This is a nation divided between Christian and Muslims and has the largest population of any African nation. I certainly hope our oil interests here don’t drag us into anymore conflicts.

  • R J Weber

    Amnesty International are “Some Dumb”. Waterboarding does not hold a persons head under water it has a towel over the head and simulates drowning it has been proven there are no after effects but the person involved does give the interrogator the desired information. Which is much better than the enemies method of chopping off the prisoners head which the are wont to do.

    • Angel Wannabe

      RJ Weber, I’d gotta ask if they’d prefer medieval torture such as spiked cages, that when closed pierced intricate parts of the body. If they think water boarding is torture, they better read the history of torture techniques,__Water boarding is child’s play in comparison!!!

      • Kinetic1

        Fine, water boarding does not mutilate the body or leave physical scars. It’s not among the worst forms of physical torture (though victims are not to quick to get over the mental scars), but until the Bush administration, it was still considered torture by the U.S Government. We tried and convicted Japanese soldiers during WWII for water boarding Americans. As for the information we extracted, several American Intelligence agents who specialize in interrogation have testified that the detainees were talking BEFORE the “contractors” came in and began the torture. In fact, the flow of factual, useful information STOPED once the torture began.

        Our Constitution demands that we follow the laws we sign on to. We signed the Geneva Conventions and by law they are now a part of our own law. So how about it, all you “Constitutionalists”? Shouldn’t you get on board and defend the laws of our fore fathers?

        • Angel Wannabe

          kinectic1, what about abortion?__Isn’t that torture, murder??__I don’t see you and lib friends stopping that?!

          • Angel Wannabe

            kinectic, Wah wah wah waterboarding is torture!!!__ Water boarding for information, saves lives!__Ya don’t have to like it!__Do you actually think if you offer a terrorist a sandwich and a beer they’re gonna talk?__Give me a break K, thats a laugh!

          • Granny Mae

            Kenitic1,

            Are you tell us you are concerned with the mental scars of terroeist? How about the mentalscars of the families that lost loved ones in the attacks of these wonderful upstanding freedom fighters of yours ? You have n9o concern for them but you are all concerned for these criminals that attacked us for no reason other than they don’t like us ! Get a life ! And a brain!

          • Robert Smith

            From angel…: “what about abortion?__Isn’t that torture, murder??__”

            No, it isn’t. When the “life” of a human being begins is subjective and generally determined by religion. Constitine set it at quickening.

            Not even all of those within any particular religion agree. You can easily check out “Catholics for a free choice.”

            Besides, most abortions occur during the first trimester when what is gestating isn’t complete enough to feel pain. I know, I know I’ll bet you are gonna bring up that bogus “Silent Screem” with that crummy doctor who aborted his own product of pregancy. He didn’t “see the light” until he was about to be tossed out of the medical profession for his actions. Oh well, if they are anti-abortion they will bebelieved by some no matter what.

            Most abortions in the second trimester are for clear medical reasons, and for the third trimester pretty much ALL abortions are of a wanted pregnancy that has gone wrong.

            Rob

        • Kinetic1

          AW,
          When did you become an expert in interrogation techniques? According to some experts in our own CIA and FBI it is exactly that type of action that loosens up someone being interrogated. In fact, this kind of humane interrogation is purported to have been responsible for much of the information we extracted from soldiers in WWII. You can go right on spouting your tough American rhetoric, but don’t ask the country to suffer for your ignorance.

          Oh, and we must not ignore your completely unrelated question about abortion. No, as abhorrent as abortion may be, I do not see it as torture, unless it is performed against the will of the Mother.

          • Angel Wannabe

            K, I don’t really profess to be an expert on anything my friend, however I’ve heard ALLLL the stories__ my Father, three uncles Army infantry WWII___lets see, oh and 3 step uncles(airforce)WWII__2 cousins currently in Afghanistan, one on his second stinct__A good friend of the Family currently in the Marines, another good friend of the family_career man, 30 years, retired from CID___ya want me to go on?_-Your either for winning the war or your not___Plain and Simple.__

          • Angel Wannabe

            kinectic___copy and pasted “Oh, and we must not ignore your completely unrelated question about abortion. No, as abhorrent as abortion may be, I do not see it as torture, unless it is performed against the will of the Mother.”

            It cetainly was related to the topic, why do you condone abortion, the murder of a complete innocent who is of no threat to anyone, but loath torturing the men for addional info, who killed 3000 of our people?__to me it makes no sense!

          • Vigilant

            Angel,

            Excellent point!

          • eddie47d

            Since you can bring up unrelated topics,which I guess is okay, then everyone should be able to do it at any time.

          • http://naver sook young

            Good job Angel! Eddie just doesn’t understand that abortion is performing physical torture on the baby and psychological torture on the mother. That’s why many of these women suffer from post pardem depression afterwards. Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

          • Granny Mae

            She is as much an expert on the subject as you are !

          • Granny Mae

            Sook,
            You are so right.

          • http://naver sook young

            Thank you very much, Granny Mae.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

          • Robert Smith

            Sook Young offers more patently FALSE information about abortion: ” That’s why many of these women suffer from post pardem depression afterwards.”

            Post pardem depression is after the BIRTH of a baby, not after an abortion.

            From http://www.bing.com/health/article/mayo-126239/Postpartum-depression?q=postpartum+depression&qpvt=Post+pardum+depression:

            “Risk factors Postpartum depression can develop after the birth of any child, not just the first. The risk increases if:

            You have a history of depression, either during pregnancy or at other times
            You had postpartum depression after a previous pregnancy
            You’ve experienced stressful events during the past year, including illness, job loss or pregnancy complications
            You’re having problems in your relationship with your spouse or significant other
            You have a weak support system
            You have financial problems
            The pregnancy was unplanned or unwanted.”

            Please keep in mind that going full term is almost ALWAYS more of a problem for a woman, particularly a woman who doesn’t want to be pregnant, than any other options.

            Please quit posting false information, sook young.

            Rob

        • Michael J.

          Kinetic1,
          Non uniformed combatants are not protected by the Geneva Convention.

          • Angel Wannabe

            Hey eddie you can bite me__Your a hypocrite!___You approve of Killing innocent babies in the womb___But disapprove of waterboarding terrorists who kill our people!___You and kinectic are hypocrit wackjobs!!!__and I’ll use what ever I can to prove a point!__No one says you have to like it!

          • Michael J.

            Angel,
            Just typical liberal logic:

            Save the whales but abort human fetuses…

            Miranda rights for terrorist and last rites for our infirmed elderly…

            All the above nonsense has been spawned by “Political Correctness” whose founding father was Karl Marx.

            P.S. I have a bumper sticker that reads:
            “Register Communist, not firearms”

          • Angel Wannabe

            Michael__What a bunch of F-in idiots!__My God, if this mindset is whats gonna run the Country some day, we’d better get on, and stay on our knees and pray, and not let up!

          • Granny Mae

            Michael J.,

            Is that right? How interresting ! How come all these knowit all idiots on here don’t know that? Thanks for the info.

          • Kinetic1

            Yes, Michael, I am aware that they are not covered by the conventions. The point is that we have legally recognized water boarding as a form of torture, and our laws preclude us from performing torture on anyone. Well, they did until Bush decided he wanted to use this and other banned methods of interrogation.

          • Kinetic1

            Michael J.
            How dare you suppose that you know how I feel about such a topic! You have no basis on which to accuse me of wanting to cut the lives f our elderly short. You may have bought into the “death panel” BS, but at no time did I suggest “last rites for our infirmed elderly.” My Grandfather spent spent his final months at home after his stroke. My Family took turns caring for my Grandmother during her final years so that she could live at home. When my Father was diagnosed with cancer we took turns staying with him. I asked to take an extra day off each week so that I could spend those final months with him. He spent his last night in my home until I rushed him to the hospital. Had he asked me to end his suffering, I would have, but at no time would I have considered ending his life just because he was “infirmed.”

            As for abortion, this is a difficult topic that depends on ones religious beliefs and how one views the development of the fetus. I support a women’s right to do what she feels is best for her situation. I understand and support your position, based on what I assume to be your beliefs. As a matter of fact, I would think less of you if you did not object so loudly. Still, I can not condone the idea of forcing a women who has been subjected to rape or incest to carry her pregnancy to term. This does not mean that I condone abortion as a means of birth control, nor am I willing to support third trimester abortion unless the health of the mother is at risk, or the fetus has been shown to be suffering from major health issues. I don’t expect you to accept my viewpoint, but at least it is now clear.

            I have now spent quite a bit of time indulging you and Angel in what I still feel is a totally unrelated topic. I hope we can now return to the subject of what is the best way to extract information from a captive. Unless you were considering using abortion as an interrogation method, I think we’re done.

          • Michael J.

            Kenetic1,
            My statement above was a general one and not aimed specifically at you.
            You most assuredly have my deepest regrets for your loss.

            Your thoughts on abortion seem pretty close to the mark. And no sane person would suggest that a woman should be forced to endure the thought of a seed growing inside her planted by the person who violated her is acceptable. Concerns over the health of the mother should be considered as well as the thoughts of the responsible father.
            Irresponsible thoughts however, should receive more scrutiny. I have read stories of pregnant teenagers requesting abortion because their pregnancy interfered with prom night plans. These individuals need enlightenment.

          • Kinetic1

            Michael,
            Sorry if I over reacted, but not all Liberals are alike, any more than all Conservatives.
            As to the teenagers, the casualness with which abortion is performed can be painful. I recall an article where researchers went to a hospital in a predominantly Catholic neighborhood where abortion numbers were unusually high. Their research found that their were many teenaged Catholic girls receiving multiple abortions. Their reasoning was that both abortion and birth control are sins in the eyes of the church, but abortion only has to be done maybe once a year, making it the better choice. It is tortured logic, but in a teen age mind…

            My first child was born when I was still in my teens. It was not planed (of course) and abortion was a consideration, but we ended up having the child. It was not until many years later that I truly understood the emotional pain that his mother went through. We split within a year after he was born (her choice) but I stayed around, offered support and even went to court to fight for regular visitation. As the years passed she became more and more bitter and ostracized our child. I remarried and he came to consider his step mother as his real mother if only because she treated him with the love and concern he didn’t get from his “real” mother. The affects on him have been painful and there’s nothing we can do but support him and be there for him.

            I would never wish him gone and have had, for the most part a wonderful time being his parent, but when I think of the pain the two of them suffer with, I have to wonder. Needless to say, the real answer is not to outlaw abortion, but to do a better job of teaching our kids about the realities of parenting. I knew all about “caring” for kids in the mechanical sense of diapers and feeding, but it’s hard to understand the emotional costs when you are a teen. When I hear about teen girls purposely getting pregnant … well I don’t know what I want to do. I wonder about what is missing in their lives that they think this will cure, and then I think about the regret they will feel a year or two down the road.

          • Robert Smith

            From sook young: “You approve of Killing innocent babies in the womb__”

            Are they really so innocent as they TAKE from another 100% of their needs without permission?

            While they are using a woman’s sex organs without her permission I consider that to be rape.

            Please take responsibility for advocating the rape of millions of women by another “person.”

            Rob

          • http://naver samurai

            What kind of moron are you? I understand about a woman being raped, but how is the baby doing this? The baby may be the result of the rape, but the baby is an innocent life and has nothing to do with what happened to the mother. Nor is it stealing from her, abusing her, nor is it raping her. Rob, you really need to get out more. Women suffer more from an abortion than they do from child birth. Still the same old rhetoric, how boring! Still believe in the torturing and killing of innocent lives. What a waste of skin. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

      • Robert Smith

        From Angel Wannabe: “I’d gotta ask if they’d prefer medieval torture such as spiked cages, that when closed pierced intricate parts of the body. If they think water boarding is torture, they better read the history of torture techniques,__”

        Actually there was a text book for the Inquisition (run by christians). It was by called The Malleus Maleficarum (Hammer of the Witches), written by Kramer and Sprenger and published in 1486.

        You can read about it at: http://www.malleusmaleficarum.org/

        So Angel, how’s ’bout facing a little history of christians…

        Rob

        • Angel Wannabe

          Robert, I don’t have to face anything!__I can’t help what extremist’s do on any front, I am solely responsible for myself and not what others do!

          • Robert Smith

            That’s what most moslums say in the contest of terrorists.

            Rob

        • Michael J.

          Robert Smith,
          The question is, why do other religions participate in such haenous acts of torture to this day while Christians gave it up 500 years ago?

          • Robert Smith

            Ha, Michael J. says: “while Christians gave it up 500 years ago?”

            No they didn’t. If they didn’t can you please explain it to Dr. Tiller. What about all those women who had their medical recordes and privacy violated at clinics by christians who simply want to embarass them?

            And all those little boys raped by priests who had their evil deeds covered up by bishops.

            You ain’t gonna convince me that christians ain’t torturin. BTW, aren’t Bush and Chaney christian?

            Rob

          • Vigilant

            RS:

            “Ha, Michael J. says: “while Christians gave it up 500 years ago?”

            No they didn’t. If they didn’t can you please explain it to Dr. Tiller. What about all those women who had their medical records and privacy violated at clinics by christians who simply want to embarrass them?”

            Your invalid, tortured “logic” proves one of two things: either you are an imbecile or you are knowingly arguing in a dishonest manner. Here’s why:

            The Inquisition was sanctioned by the Catholic Church as an institutional policy. The death of “Tiller the baby killer” was at the hands of a single criminal. To say that Christians in general advocate violence as an answer is worse than disingenuous, and your argument is unworthy of consideration.

            Similarly, “christians (sic) who simply want to embarrass them?” No sir, the aim was to prevent the murder of an innocent baby. Regardless of the aim, it is not the policy of any church to engage in disruption of abortion clinics.

            “And all those little boys raped by priests who had their evil deeds covered up by bishops.”

            Truly a tragedy, I admit, and the church deserves all the criminal suits against it for those transgressions, but to imply that all Christians are a party to this is another BIG lie.

            “You ain’t gonna convince me that christians (sic) ain’t torturin. BTW, aren’t Bush and Chaney Christian (sic)?”

            Another ludicrous statement that carries no logical weight. Yes, Obama is (nominally) a Christian, as was Martin Luther King and Jimmy Carter. You include them and millions of other people in your sweeping generalizations about the Christian religion.

            The word “Christian” is a proper noun. Your obvious disdain for all things Christian by using the lower case “c” also de-legitimizes your “argument.” I’ll bet you capitalize the “m” in “Muslim,” don’t you?

          • meteorlady

            I’m a person that believes that Abortion is wrong, very wrong, but….. If I live in a free country and if that is true, I must also accept that others have differing moral values and standards they live by than I do and that they have rights, even if I believe those rights to be morally wrong.

            The fact is, the government should get the heck of legislating moral values. The person that gets an abortion has to live with that and they have to answer to their maker when their life is done. That’s the ultimate punishment, if there is one. The government, when they legislate values step on all the people of this nation by taking away a fundamental right. Once the train leaves the station……

            What comes next? We already can’t eat certain foods, now no smoking in private businesses, we have to wear seat belts, we have to wear bicycle helmets, etc. All of those are one little individual freedom taken away without any complaints by those that are being stepped on.

  • http://www.bikescor-florida-charlotte.com Thomas Ponder

    I believe it is about time we tell all these groups to stuff it…. I guess it is easy for the ones to say that went they want to be sitting on their butts and pointing the fighters.. If you so damn interested in it you do the work. I bet non of you who is on this went to a Veterans Day ceremony, or have honored them in anyway..
    You are way to busy concerned for the Turbon Toppers…. Well I have news for you… None of the ones you think, YOU THINK, were water boarded served you country, protected you and yours and keep your freedom. You won’t take the time out for your own veterans, or promote you country of being the best in the world…. Well I have news for you….. Pack your damn bags and get the hell out… I know what you would ii your country called, but, I have news for you… Canada would send you right back. Stick you damn head back in the hole until you have something constructive to say… I consider you a trader to this country and should not be even able to breath the same breath as we do… There are good parents and bad just as there are good Americans and Bad you are the Bad … Get the hell out… As far as Amnesty International they can kiss this retired soldiers ass….

    • Joe the Veteran of Korea

      Thomas, I agree with you about the a– holes at amnesty international but I would not want their filthy lips on my butt.

      • eddie47d

        Japan used water boarding during WWII and it was declared torture. Now we use it and it’s fine and dandy. Who’s side are you on anyway?

        • Michael J.

          Eddie47d,
          The Japanese form of waterboarding utlized salt water which could and did cause deaths. That’s why they were prosecuted and convicted.
          Keep on cherry picking and you may become a fruit yourself. Whoops, too late.

    • Kinetic1

      Thomas Ponder,
      In my town the Scouts head up to the Cemetery every Memorial day to plant flags on the graves of our soldiers. Our Veterans March to the base of the Cemetery and hold a Ceremony while most of the town looks on. For Veterans day we have another parade down Main Street and most of the town comes out to watch and cheer. Same on the Fourth of July. What we don’t do in our town is call people “Turban Toppers” or other racial epitaphs. We recognize the diversity of our residents and do our best to be good neighbors.

      • meteorlady

        We do that were I live also, but… when others start infringing on our lifestyle and values, we don’t take kindly to it. Assimilate into our culture if you want to be an American, otherwise stay in your own country and do whatever it is you do there.

        Didn’t the Chancellor of Germany just declare that diversity is ruining their country. Didn’t Australia just declare the same? Didn’t France just outlaw burkas? Doesn’t England have a large population of muslims living off their social welfare system because they believe to do so enslaves the population of that country? Seems like it’s not working out well for these countries at all.

  • home boy

    you what to investagate someone go after the fed or barney frank and richard dodd. make itworth your while.

    • meteorlady

      You would need to go higher that those organizations. Try Soros, Maurice Strong, Bildeburg Group and others like them. They are the true manipulators of society in general and are getting more and more powerful. Soros as an entire army of little brainwashed slaves running around under the guise of moveon.org. They are disruptive and cause property damage to businesses when they come to town.

  • Mick

    Thomas Ponder says:
    November 15, 2010 at 10:34 am
    I believe it is about time we tell all these groups to stuff it….

    *********************************
    Thomas..I couldn’t agree with you more..let’s kick the UN out and let’s sart working on the American organizations as well, like the A.C.L.U, etc……
    Our country has been swarmed by these organizations with the pretext of saving the human race while in the same token they are destroying the very people who do the most for humanity…We shouldn’t give them anything anymore see how they like them apples………

  • Doc Sarvis

    The U.S. historically considered waterboarding a form of torture when it was used on our soldiers or agents. Why is it not torture now? Of course he would claim that it “saved lives” – he’s trying to cover his butt on this immoral act (among others).

    • Gary

      Doc, If he was trying to cover his butt, he wouldn’t have even mentioned it in hopes it would go away. Is water boarding torture? Maybe it is but you can be damn sure it is nothing compared to what they would do to our people. Lets all remember, this is a war. Its too bad that America has forgotten that wars should be fought to WIN. Enough of all the pussyfooting around. I would have waterboarded every last one of the enemy if I felt it would save ONE American!

      • Kinetic1

        Gary,
        Are you saying that we didn’t fight WWII to win? We knew our job then and we considered water boarding as torture that only those heathen “Japs” would do. We fought to win, but we remembered the rules of the Geneva Conventions. This isn’t a John Wayne movie, this is real life. When we choose to violate our own rule and standards we open the door for other nations to follow.

        Some of you have argued that AlQaeda and other terrorist groups already do far worse, and that is undeniable, but when I was growing up we were taught that “two wrongs don’t make a right.” Is this kind of upbringing too outdated for you to accept? Are the people posting on this sight not continually pining for the days when parents raised their kids with morals? When T.V. shows like “Leave it to Beaver” taught kids to respect their elders and keep their nose clean? I don’t know where you folks live or what your towns are like, but I’m glad I don’t have to live there with you.

        • Doc Sarvis

          Kinetic1
          EXCELLENT points.

        • Vigilant

          Please relinquish the Geneva Convention argument, which is no argument at all.

          Terrorists are not covered by the Geneva Convention, unless they are uniformed members of a national armed force.

          What part of that do you not understand?.

          • Angel Wannabe

            Well said Granny Mae!

        • Granny Mae

          Kinetic1,

          The old addage “two wrongs don’t make a right” only applys when you are dealing with someone that has the same moral values and standards of living as you, in this case our enemy’s don’t ! They do not have the same values as we do and that is part of the reason they want to kill us ! They don’t live the way we do believe the way we do, think the way we do nor do they have the same goals in life as we do. We live under freedom and so we judge everyone we come in contact with by those standards but they don’t have those standards and in a lot of cases they don’t want our standards. We are usually content to leave them alone and let them have their own thoughts and standards ect. until they infringe on our lives. Then you either give in and accept their ways or you stand up and fight to keep your own ways. If you stand up and fight for what is yours then all bets are off and you fight to win and don’t worry about your standards till it is all over. There is no place in war for any of our morals and standards that is part of what makes war hell ! You see sometimes you have to fight fire with fire ! While I’m at it let me say that I’m sorry for the name calling earlier, but I am very passionit about my country and I defend her with my life ! I am not and have never been in the military but I have had loved ones serve and I hold down the fort here at home and support them in every thing they do ! I don’t hold with any other country or organization coming in here and taking us to task. There is a world out there that doesn’t come close to the standards of this country and I have not seen them make one bit of progress with any of them and still they come here and want to make a example of us? I don’t think so. I don’t agree with you and your thoughts of us as a country. Right or wrong This is the greatest country in the world and she doesn’t deserve being bad mouthed by any of her citizens! If you are a citizen you should be very proud of this country of yours. She isn’t perfect but either are any of her citizens. On a whole we do our very best to correct our mistakes and it should be left to us to do so, not to any other country or organization ! I find that when I get on one of these blogs and there is such hateful discussions going back and forth I get so riled that I almost loose control and then I realize that this is not the way I want to be, but I am truly that passionet for my country that I know it will happen every time ! Maybe it is time to record the good things about this country and build her up for a change !

          • Granny Mae

            Think of it this way, If you had a family problem and you knew that your neighbor was aware of the problem would you want him to come into your house and tell you how to settle your problem or would you rather do it yourself? Is it better for you to let someone else tell you how to run your life or is it best for you to do that? Does your neighbor make all the right choices and decissions? Get my point?
            This is our family and we can settle our own family problems !

          • Angel Wannabe

            Well said Granny Mae! & God Bless!

          • Robert Smith

            From Granny: “They do not have the same values as we do and that is part of the reason they want to kill us !”

            I guess that’s why so many christians want gays dead and gays don’t want to kill christians. Gays just want to be equal and christians would rather kill them.

            How’s that for conflicting values, Granny?

            Rob

          • Kinetic1

            Granny,
            I understand and appreciate what you are trying to say, but there is a problem here. We didn’t leave them alone. We didn’t let the Islamic nations live their way while we lived ours. I agree, America is a great nation and we are blessed to live the lives we do, but not all people appreciate our ways. Even here in America we battle and argue over sexual advertising, proper dress and what should be taught in school. That’s fine, it’s our country and, as you expressed we can deal with it in the family. Unfortunately, American corporations aren’t so concerned about these sorts of things.

            Look at what has happened in America. If it means making a buck, companies like Abercrombie & Fitch will go from being a respected shop for out door enthusiasts to a sleazy casual goods company that uses overt sexual images to sell clothes to young adults. Now what do you think the response would be if they opened a shop in an Amish community? Well, that’s sort of what we did. American corporations, certain that our way of life is best for all began opening restaurants and retail shops all over the Middle East, and the fundamentalists saw this as a continuation of the Western invasion from centuries earlier. They’re fighting back. Their methods are wrong, and their values make little sense to us, but this is how they are going about it.

            What about us? Americans now believe that Islam is trying to force their values on us and, based on the words of some on this site, we are ready to wipe them off the planet. Are we so different? This is all a bit simplistic and does not do justice to the subject, but how much room do we have?

          • http://naver samurai

            Rob, why are you bringing up the gays, moron? They are not part of the subject at hand. You’re also wrong, as Christians aren’t the ones who would want to kill them. The muslims would in a heartbeat. Remember hate the sin and not the sinner? Cite your sources and post some facts next time. I’ll be waiting for your answer and I better not hear the chirping of crickets either, moron. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • eddie47d

            The Westboro Church in Kansas wants all gays killed. It really isn’t necessary to call everyone you don’t like a moron.

          • http://naver sook young

            Eddie, that’s only one church or group. How can you lump all Christians into the same group as they are? I’m sorry, but these people are the enemies of the modern world (terrorists). I don’t mean all muslims. I have 2 friends who are muslim. One is from India (Noor) and one is from Pakistan (Samia) and they are great friends. We do a lot of girl things together, but I don’t put them in the same group as the terrorists as you are putting all of us Christians in the same group as that pastor from Kansas. You said before how we were putting all liberals and muslims into the same group, well can you follow some of your own advice and not do the same thing with us? Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

          • Granny Mae

            Kenitic 1,

            I also understand what you are trying to say too, however the big companies that have gone to these other countries and set up shop did not go there uninvited ! They were invited there to help bolster the economy of the host country. You can’t just go to most of these countries and set up shop. You can’t just do that here either for the most part. If you are to start a business anywhere you have to present your intentions to the people in charge. That means that you have to give exact details of every aspect of your company and how it is going to impact the environment and neighborhood etc. You have to have the ok of the people in charge of the place where you want to purchase the property then you have to get the permits for electricity and water and sewage and all this in this country has to go before the city council. People can stop your developement if they don’t like your plans, and it is the same way in other countries. They allow American industry in because they need jobs for their people but they are not going to let just anyone in. You have to make a presentation to the authorities first and get their OK. For instance if you were to want to open a McDonalds in Saudi you couldn’t go with the intention of having a McRib on the menue ! Your menue would have to conform to their laws of eating. They have some very strick rules of acceptable food ! When we have companies that use advertising that is immoral or not to the liking of the public, it is our moral duty to complain and work to get it changed. I agree there is a lot more going on in this country than there should be but no-one seems to do anything about it. When it comes to advertising of companies they will do what they can get away with in this country. Boy cot their stores and complain about the advertising and it will change. As for us going to other countries and imposing on them our ways that is not true. There have been countries that were involved in WWII that were occupied for years and most of those were by Great Britton. The countries that we stayed in was not to impose our way of life on them it was to rebuild their country after the war had torn it down. If we hadn’t done that they would still be struggling to rebuild. When it comes to the Muslims that is a horse of a different color ! They hate everyone that isn’t muslim and have attacked and waged war on everyone for thousands of years. They were conqurers for thousands of years. They attacked Spain and conqured them and still live there! They are everywhere and always try to impose their beliefs on everyone. If you take a good look right here you will see they are doing it here too ! They didn’t have to come here. They knew what kind of a country we were and now they complain that their people are becoming to westernized ! Well they can go home then. There are a lot of things that need to be fixed in this country but for Muslims to come here and then want to turn us into the country they came from I wonder why? Why did they leave their country in the first place? Now they want us to make way for them to do what ever they want because we are a free country and they should have the freedom to do what they want and also live by Sharia law not our law ! That is dividing a house and a house divided cannot stand ! Freedom is only just so free. You can’t enjoy a freedom that imposes on someone elses freedom. In other words, I want to walk the streets of New York and shop and go to the plays and just be able to come and go to take care of my business at any time of the day I wish but I can’t in New York because at a certain time every day the muslims have decided they want to do their worship out on the street and so they block off the street to the use of anyone else so they can have church ! Now that is infringing on my right as a citizen to use the streets of the city as they were intended. Muslims don’t worship on the streets anywhere else in the world that I can see except in NY. If we complain they will make a big fuss about discrimination and the people here are so afraid that they will come and cut off their heads that they just let them have their way. They have become bullies ! They intend to remain bullies as long as we let them. If they had come here and lived their lives and worshiped in their churches and just left the rest of the country alone I wouldn’t think anything about it but that is not what they did. They have intentions on taking this country over and it is no secret. They have come right out and told us so ! Do you think I’m going to just sit back and let that happen? Not in this lifetime ! I have no use for people that come here as guests and then come out and act as though they have the right demonstrate against this country. I don’t hold with Mexicans that come here and then insist on taking over the neighborhood and taking down our national flag and putting up the Mexican flag! Most of all I have no use for any local government that would allow that to continue ! This is the United States of America and we have a flag and it isn’t the Mexican flag ! If people want to come here to improve their way of life so be it but don’t you ever think I’m going to sit by and allow them to disrespect me, my country and my flag. Not today ! We have not been the big bad wolf to all these other countries they just have to have someone to blame for all their lack of progress in this world so they choose to blame it all on us and there are too many people in this country that are all to willing to just let that happen and even help them by backing them up. I don’t hold with that either. When it comes to us thinking that they are out to get us, well I just take them at their own words. They said it so what do you want me to do sit here and say—-Oh you are so right we are just the worst people in this world and you are right to come here and want to take this country over and make us do your bidding and try to kill us and blow up our buildings! You are right to train young people to want to sacrifice themselves and their lives by strapping on a bomb and walking into a restraunt and blowing it up with yourself and everyone else in it ! Am I suppose to say it’s alright that you blew up the Twin Towers and the Pentegon and tried to take out the White House, and kill thousands of inocent people because you were justified? How can anyone be justified to do something like that and use the excuse that it is because 50 or 60 years ago your fathers did such and such to my country! I don’t think so! Go tell that lame excuse to someone who cares and it isn’t me ! Dear Heart, all of us on here are of differing opinions to one degree or another, and that is OK. But there is one thing with me that you can take to the bakn. I am forever grateful that I was born in this country and afforded the right to live in freedom and if there is nothing more that I can give back in payment for that gift it will be that I will never compromise degrade or disrespect this country ! I fly the flag in my yard. Not because I have to but I do it because I want to. If no-one ever sees it but me and God Almighty it is OK. I love this country and I’m gratful for the privlege to live here ! Do give me excuses for people that want to disrespect her or take her out . They don’t deserve your excuses and will kill you too if given the chance ! Know where to put your loyalty and it isn’t in them !

          • Granny Mae

            Robert Smith,

            Get this straight, Christians do not want Gays killed ! Christians want gays to take their reprobate life style and get lost ! I don’t care what makes you gay you have a choice to do right and not wrong. The bible tells us that it is against Gods laws for a man to lie with a man as with a woman and it is wrong for a woman to lie with a woman as with a man . It is also wrong for a human being to lie with an animal ! God says it is wrong . God does not say to kill these people but he does say they are not to be accepted as normal as long as they persist in this activity. His death on the cross is for everyone and for all sins no matter how bad. I may not like that decission but I abide by it because that is what God said ! I have had a lot of experience with gays when I was working and none of it good ! They are people that insist on being in the lime lite and always talk of disgusting things in public and in mixed company. They do not keep their desires to themselves but put on the most disgusting displays in public that I have ever witnessed and it is all accepted. If straight people did those things and dressed that way and talked that way we would be arrested and rightly so ! People say that gays can’t help being that way, but I say BS ! You may have those feelings and desires but you do have a choice as to whether to act on those feelings and desires and you especially have the choice as to whether or not to talk in a disgusting manner in public. While I was working I was subjected to having to listen to the most dispicable talk of actions by the gays working in the same area ! I didn’t want to hear about their putting the make on the preachers son in the sanctuary of the church or the times they got it on with partners they didn’t even know in the parking lot of a church. I didn’t want to hear about all the times they made visits to the rest areas on the interstate to have sex with multiple partners or how they lost their false teeth when they took them out to perform on someone they didn’t know ! I could go on and on but I won’t. These kinds of actions and the open talk of these kinds of actions cause me to believe that gays are sick in the head ! Others are so offended by this stuff that they then want to take the lives of these people or beat the crap out of them. When gays put on open displays of this kind of behavior they are putting themselvs in danger so my advice is shut up and keep it to yourself or stop thos kinds of actions. It is a choice and it is your choice. Personally I would rather they stop and find the Lord but I don’t thini that is going to happen. When I see the rediculous actions of those gays in San Francisco and the way they dress and try to force their actions on unsuspecting straight people I just shake my head. I see we are surrounded by a very sick society where the gays are concerned. So, Robert, if you are gay let me say I don’t want you dead, I want you to straighten up and fly right and get a real life and be respectable !

          • Granny Mae

            Robert,

            You say that gays just want to be equal. Can a cup of water be equal to a cup of coffee? Can an apple be equal to a tomato? Gays can’t be equal to straights because they have nothing in common. Nor can you be equal to Christians because you don’t have the same belief’s. There is no equality in any of this. To be equal to an orange you have to be an orange. To be a Christian is not out of your grasp but to do it you have to give up homosexuality ! I don’t hate you and I don’t want you dead. I will pray for you !

          • http://naver samurai

            Good job, Granny Mae. Keep up the good fight, fellow patriot! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

        • Gary

          Kinetic, In no way do I believe that we didn’t fight to win in WWII. I don’t know why you would even reference a war that WE WON to make your point. What I am saying is that there is too much politics involved along with a bunch of other BS. We should not have our soldiers in harms way unless we let them FIGHT TO WIN. We don’t need them to be acting as police in areas where the people are trying to kill us.
          I don’t know how you can jump to conclusions about my morals, how I was raised, how old I am, or where I live based based on my thoughts about waterboarding terrorists. In any case rest assured I might live right down the street from you and you would never know it. I am a quiet, law abiding citizen.

          • Kinetic1

            Gary,
            First, let me respond to my choice of reference. The point in bringing up WWII is that we did win, but we did so with recognition of the “rules of war.” Despite the cruelty of our Nazi opponents, we followed a civilized code in our treatment of those captured. Sure, there were exceptions and fear and adrenaline will drive men to do many cruel things, but in general.

            Second, let me apologize for offending you. I have felt attacked on more than one occasion and I don’t stand for it either. Only the first paragraph was in direct response to you. The rest was meant, and worded to reference many of the folks on this site who argue for a return to the “old ways” but often fail to see the hypocrisy. I make no assumptions of age or life experience, but share mine as reference for my opinions. Some of you may live in my area, but so many have described their homes that I know they are far, far from me. And when I read the vile references of religious intolerance (Turban Toppers?), the hate expressed towards gays (I’d like to sit on the roof and pick ‘em off one by one) and the general sense that the poor have no one to blame but them selves and their desire to live off the system, well I still have to say that I am glad I am not neighbors with many, if not most of you.

    • Teresa

      I do not see All the others being investigated…and they did ALOT more than waterboarding…NOT to mention at least he held himself accountable for his actions…UNLIKE EVERYONE ELSE! Think about that for one second, they attack us on our soil, he waterboarded three terrorist, right or wrong, he held himself accountable for his actions and I promise you not you nor I nor any other person besides top officials have any business knowing what went on behind closed doors. This was war and he was doing what he thought was right to protect us. NOW all the sudden everyone wants to jump on the bandwagon and start throwing stones…..will it change anything? He told the world what he did…HE DID NOT HAVE TO, HE DID NOT HAVE TO APOLOGIZE, HE DID NOT HAVE TO SAY ONE SINGLE WORD TO US OF HIS DECISIONS! Has every country before paid for their crimes agains OUR soldiers????????????? NO..THEY HAVE DONE MUCH MUCH WORSE!

      • Doc Sarvis

        As a proud American, I believe we are much better than that. We should be above stooping to the lowest level if we are on the right side of things. Torture is immoral but I can understand that Bush would be okay with that.

        • Teresa

          Doc, I enjoy your comments and I enjoy debating w/you for I feel everyone should have their opinion. But you and you feelings toward Bush will not change the fact in this. He DID show his passion for his country and his fellow Americans. We could all say that the current President…he should be investigated for all his actions toward his OWN nation! So while everyone keeps bringing up national security issues that we only hear partial issues on during war crimes instead of the CURRENT issues that our nation is going thru I find it extremely discouraging that we KEEP hearing of Bush and his faults. How about we discuss what we should be investigating RIGHT NOW!

          • Doc Sarvis

            The article brought up the past issues of Bush’s decisions. I assume that the comments on this article would involve that history.

        • Teresa

          oh and a footnote: the right side of things is saving American lives at any cost…and I AM A PROUD AMERICAN ALSO..

          • eddie47d

            Many nations torture people behind closed doors and unfortunately most are never heard of again If it wasn’t for Amnesty International even more freedom fighters would loose their lives. Then it would be even harder to expect change from these types of governments. AI does much good in the service to the world and tries to make each country responsible for how they treat it’s citizens.

          • Doc Sarvis

            You wrote “the right side of things is saving American lives at any cost”. So if President Bush – or ANY President for that matter decided that we should nuke the whole world/kill everyone else; to save American lives that would be the right thing – the moral thing – the American thing to do?

          • Angel Wannabe

            DS, and what would be the point of nuking the whole world, they’d be no one left to bitch about it???__Your pulling questions out of thin air!

          • Angel Wannabe

            and eddie, if a terrorist from another country is coming here on our soil and is hell bent doing the American citzen harm, no one in they’re right mind either in the military or otherwise, is gonna stand around and debate which is the most humane way of interogation id captured and or defending ourselves.____What are ya gonna do with a enemy when they’re coming at’cha with a grenade, Yell stop, lets talk?!!!

          • Kinetic1

            AW,
            There’s a big difference between defending your self or your country against an armed assailant, and interrogating an unarmed man/women who is no threat to you at the moment. I don’t believe that anyone here would hesitate to say “shot ‘em” in defense, but we need to use the best methods to extract the best information in interrogations. Experts have stated time and again that torture only gives us what the subject thinks will stop the torture. They may give us some actionable information, or they may just tell us a story. Why do you think they used torture during the inquisition? People will renounce their GOD just to get the torture to stop. They’ll point to innocent children and pronounce them witches. They’ll alson turn in their neighbors as terroists, even if they aren’t. Torture of any kind is unreliable and antiquated, but it seems to feed a good ol’ fashioned Hollywood war movie need in some of you “True ‘mericans.” For me, I’ll stick with the experts and leave these “contractors” to you folks on the right.

          • Angel Wannabe

            Kinectic___Your words>>>>”There’s a big difference between defending your self or your country against an armed assailant, and interrogating an unarmed man/women who is no threat to you at the moment.”

            big queston here is “AT THE MOMENT”___Question if someone murders another person, is he or is he not still liable for the crime, even though he has stopped murdering?????

          • Granny Mae

            Doc,

            To all civilized nations that have nukes this is not a question. They know this is folly and would be the end of life as we know it, but there are nations out there that don’t think the way the rest of the world does and they would use such things in a heart beat. They believe it is their duty to bring about the end of the world ! They are insane !

          • Granny Mae

            Kenitic1,

            That unarmed man or woman would kill you in a heart beat if they had the chance ! Talk to the guards from Gitmo and ask them about the things these prisoners did to them every chance they got even though they figured they would be tortured ! In this case we are not talking about thoughtful people we are talking about waco nuts ! Turn them loose even without doing anything to them and they would turn right around a come back here and take you out if they get a chance ! Maybe it was torture but it was done humainly as possible ! They are still alive and they could have been dead !

          • eddie47d

            Angel; Yes” I love abortions and seeing America attacked and killed”! You are an absolute idiot in your assumptions. Stop and think for a change in you’re wild assertions.

          • http://naver sook young

            I don’t know about killing people Eddie, but I know that this president loves the idea of abortions. Didn’t he say that he wouldn’t want his daughter to be punished with a baby? I guess he’d rather have his daughter go through torment her whole adult life instead of taking responsibility for her actions. As I’ve stated before, as a nurse I know that many of these women go through post pardem depression. Couldn’t you consider that a form of psychological torture? Some of these women are affected so severely that they commit suicide, instead of wanting to live with the memories of the nightmare they went through. Soon, in my opinion, the torture known as abortion will disappear. I’m part of the Susan B. Anthony List and I’m proud to say that there is the starting of legislation to deal with abortions in certain areas.

            1. The No Taxpayer Funding for Abortion Act.
            2. The Title X Abortion Provider Prohibition Act.

            These will not get rid of this torture on us women, but it will greatly decrease the numbers of them taking place. No Eddie, I don’t think you like abortions (Actually Robert does), but no God fearing patriotic woman or man would support such an attack on a woman’s privacy, body, mind, and have her submit to psychological problems for their entire adult lives. Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

          • Robert Smith

            From sook young: “(Actually Robert does),”

            Why do you lie about what others believe?

            Rob

          • Robert Smith

            From Sook young about abortion: “and have her submit to psychological problems for their entire adult lives.”

            Another flat out falsehood.

            Rob

          • http://naver sook young

            Sorry Robert, but I’ve delt with and treated women in this condition. What proof do you have that I’m lying? You are just as much a murderer as those you are trying to protect. How can you say that certain isolated actions are acts of terrorism, but you say that the physical torturing of a baby is not? You are the one with no credibility here, Robert. I think that you are no better than a terroist. Seeking out as many innocent children as you can, just to make your “lord” (satan) happy with you. I guess I’ll have to pray over you again. Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

          • Granny Mae

            Robert,

            Let me tell you from a womans point of view and from what I have learned over the years, with contact with women that have had abortions ! There is great psycological difficulties experienced by women that have had abortions. I will not say that all but about90 percent of them experience problems and they don’t go away, they are there for the rest of their lives. To understand this you have to understand that pregnancy is not just simply putting on a back pack , it is a complete body change, chemically and physically. There is a growth in the body and the normal function of the body is to get rid of anything foreign within it. So for a baby to survive that body has to make some drastic changes and the woman must endure those changes. These changes are designed to go through changes all through the pregnancy until the end when the baby is born and everything shuts off and goes back to normal. Hormones increase , the breasts begin to fill with milk and the birth cannel starts to soften so as to stretch to be able to give birth. These changes don’t take place all of a sudden they take place over the span of almost a year. The very action of pregnancy taking place starts this cycle into action. Now when this cycle is suddenly stopped it throws a munkey wrench into the whole thing and everything has to seek its own ability to stop the process. You talk about shock to the system that is a major shock ! Now we come to the psycological upset. There are changes started immediately in the mothers brain also. It is designed to help a mother to bond with this child right from the beginning. If that didn’t happen most mothers would not be happy about having a baby because all these other changes are not worth putting up with so she would abort all the time. Once an abortion takes place then a woman has to deal with the mental changes too. I don’t expect a man to completely understand these things because it is hard for a girl or a woman to understand it too until she starts going through it . Abortion is a very drastic action to take. It has come to light now from scientists that they now know that women that have had abortions have an unusually high incedent of breast cancer and other related cancers. I suspect this is because of the shocking end to the pregnancy instead of the normal gradual end by giving birth. Abortion is not a simple action to take and it should never be taken except in the most extreme cases and even then I’m not so sure. Best thing to do is use other forms of birthcontrol, especially self control and responsibility !

          • Robert Smith

            From Sook Young: ” just to make your “lord” (satan) happy with you. I guess I’ll have to pray over you again.”

            satan is a christian creation. Since I am not christian I have no interest in satan.

            Please quit lying about my position. I’ve stated it several times before and you seem to have missed that. Now, I’ve told you directly.

            Please don’t apply things from your religion to me.

            Rob

          • http://naver samurai

            Why not, moron? She has her freedom of speech and religion doesn’t she? You are the one who has no right to tell her to stop. If my wife wants to pray for you, so be it and you can’t do anything about it either. If you think you can, just come on up here to Elkhart, Indiana and try something. The only thing you’ll be loooking at is the wrong end of an M-16, locked and loaded. Here’s a present for you Rob.
            God and Jesus love you
            Rob!

            Samurai and Sook Young

            Now there’s a nice present for you, rob. Make as many copies as you like. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

        • Vigilant

          Doc,

          “Bush would be OK with that?”

          I think you better include millions of Americans along with that faux indictment.

          • Doc Sarvis

            Which just illustrates one reason why this country has a crisis in morality.

          • Vigilant

            Sorry, Doc. When a liberal talks about morality, I find it hard to stifle my guffaws.

        • Granny Mae

          Doc Sarvis,

          Since you brought it up I will give you my opinion of why this country has so few morals today. First a question ! Where do people get their morals from? They come from the ten comandments. The law of life that were given to amnkind from God almighty. God said you must live by these rules and your life will be fine but if you don’t then you will live in misery ! Guess he was right. Today people have abandond their faith in God and want to live by their own rules ! When asked if they believe in God most people say they do but they have no idea of just who God is or what he said to do and live by. They make up their own ideas of what they think God wants from them and most of the time they are dead wrong. If you want morality in this country then you must encourage a personal relationship with God for everyone once again. No God no morals, even though some may think they have morals no they don’t. Their morals go only so far and then when it is not convenient to them they make up their own morals and always say God wouldn’t want such and such ! Can’t know what God wants unless you get in a good faith based church and learn from a good preacher how to discern what God really wants ! We have put too much distance between us and the church and now we are reaping the consequences ! What is the answer? Get back to church and show your children how a God fearing Cristian really acts and lives !

  • Kim

    Hey Doc,
    Why don’t you go get snagged by the Taliban and see what they do to you?

    • Angel Wannabe

      Kim, DS’ll be talking out his azz, cuz he won’t have a head!__Such idiots, honestly!

  • Mick

    Doc Sarvis says:
    November 15, 2010 at 11:01 am
    The U.S. historically considered waterboarding a form of torture when it was used on our soldiers or agents. Why is it not torture now? Of course he would claim that it “saved lives” – he’s trying to cover his butt on this immoral act (among others).

    ******************************8
    Doc Sarvis ,,,,,,,,,,Our soldiers have suffered much worse than waterboarding and they were not terrorists and wore a uniform, you don’t seem to make any distinction between the two…Nice job at defending the indefensible, seems as it’s the only good job the left can do………….

    • Doc Sarvis

      Our enemies are Not above using torture. As a proud American, I know that America should be above stooping to the immoral act of torture.

      • Teresa

        I do know what you are saying and I agree w/you to a point…Yes, we do put ourself above other Nations in moral standings…always have. We do not torture others. But I also see Bush’s point of view is what I am saying. He was hit w/terrorist on his own soil and he made a call, right or wrong, he made a call. I can not justify his action. What I can justify is he held himself accountable and none of us know what took place behind those closed doors and none of us SHOULD know and this whole thing has gotten TOO public! This was war on our soil. Yes I agree w/you that you have your view, but I promise you one thing..anytime another country is in trouble it is the US that is called into action..the US that is always putting our men at risk…This was like I said ON OUR soil! He could have very easily like every other President had someone else take the fall for his actions but he didn’t…He held himself accountable! Regardless of your feelings toward him show him the respect he deserves for that, I just gave you yours!

  • Steve Dolyniuk

    These jerks with Amnesty International, & ACLU & other organizations, who constantly stir up crap need to be banned from this country, since they are so unamerican. The SOB’s would complain, if you hung them with a new rope.

    • Kinetic1

      Yes, Steve.
      It’s “unamerican”(sic) to defend the helpless. It’s “unamerican”(sic) to stand up for those who can not afford to represent themselves. It’s “unamerican”(sic) to point out the crimes against humanity that are perpetrated around the world. It’s “unamerican”(sic) to cal out those nations who would use their armies to suppress the will of their people. Fortunately, I live in America with a capital A and here it is not un-American to do any of these things. In fact, it is what our nation is founded on, Freedom! We have a history of defending the free peoples of all nations, and I for one want to continue this tradition, whether it is with our army or the organizations noted.
      “God grants liberty only to those who love it, and are always ready to guard and defend it.” — Daniel Webster (1834)

      • Vigilant

        “I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue!” Barry Goldwater, 1964

        • Robert Smith

          Hey Vigilant, do you also remember that Goldwater was pro-choice and had no problems with gays in the military?

          Rob

          • http://naver samurai

            And you wonder why he was never elected president? FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

      • Michael J.

        Kenetic1,
        If Amnesty International persued global human rights violations in order of severity, they would never make it to the United States.
        This left leaning, George Soros funded organization overlooks a myriad of genuine human rights attrocities in such places as China, Iran, Cuba and African countries in order to conform to the elitist agenda of demonizing America and Americans.

  • Winnie

    Waterboarding is torture and the some of the Japanese leaders were killed for the the crime of interegating the American soldiers with that. I can understand why the Americans believe that this time it is the right thing to do; but, Bush is no better than the Japanese leaders that allowed that torture to be done on anyone.

    • Vigilant

      Maybe you should get your facts straight before you start bloviating.

      No member of the Japanese military was hanged for waterboarding. All seven of the Japanese officers were executed for war crimes far exceeding waterboarding. They truly tortured, maimed and killed their prey. Several also used waterboarding, well beyond the pale of what the US did, such a actually forcing water into prisoners’ mouths. But it was not waterboarding that got them the death sentence.

      As Mark Hemingway has said, “it seems pretty clear we executed these men for charges that far surpass concerns about waterboarding.”

      He also reports, “In no way, shape or form could waterboarding be said to have been the predominate reason any one of these people were hanged. Begala suggesting people at the Tokyo Trials were hanged for waterboarding is akin to noting that Charles Manson is guilty of trespassing on Roman Polanski’s home and then insisting that’s the reason he got a death sentence.”

  • Hugh

    Quiet honestly, I don’t fully understand what waterboarding is and neither do most of those who jump on the criticism band wagon. I recall an incident when I was training recruits at Fort Jackson, SC. One trainee learned that he could hyperventilate and pass out. He did this to gain sympathy and attention. I got tired of his crap. One day as we were marching on a hard top surface he pulled his little trick again, carefully falling not to get hurt. I noticed a water faucet on a nearby golf course that was facing down. I required him to lay down on the ground facing up and turned the water on. After he fought it a bit, I turned the water of and asked him if he thought he could make it now. He was not sure. I required him to lay down and I turned the water on again and held him a bit. He was convinced he could make it then. Although we were, by then, far behind the company, he beat them and me to the company area. It did not hurt him in any way, but it broke the little bastard of his disruptive habits. I don’t know, nor do I care, if this can be considered a form of waterboarding, but it damn sure worked. I am sick and tired of these damn weasels who have never been in challenging or dangerous situations for critizing people who take meaningful and appropriate measures to respond appropriately to a given situation. For you spineless creeps who want to sit on a safe sideline and criticise, just step forward and put on a uniform, put yourself in harms way and see how you will respond. Until then, keep your big condemning mouth shut.

    • Angel Wannabe

      Well said Hugh!!!

    • Granny Mae

      Three cheers for Hugh,
      Thanks for the positive post ! Amen

  • Mick

    Hugh says:
    November 15, 2010 at 12:20 pm
    Quiet honestly, I don’t fully understand what waterboarding is and neither do most of those who jump on the criticism band wagon. I recall an incident when I was training recruits at Fort Jackson, SC. One trainee learned that he could hyperventilate and pass out. He did this to gain sympathy and attention. I got tired of his crap. One day as we were marching on a hard top surface he pulled his little trick again, carefully falling not to get hurt. I noticed a water faucet on a nearby golf course that was facing down. I required him to lay down on the ground facing up and turned the water on. After he fought it a bit, I turned the water of and asked him if he thought he could make it now. He was not sure. I required him to lay down and I turned the water on again and held him a bit. He was convinced he could make it then. Although we were, by then, far behind the company, he beat them and me to the company area. It did not hurt him in any way, but it broke the little bastard of his disruptive habits. I don’t know, nor do I care, if this can be considered a form of waterboarding, but it damn sure worked. I am sick and tired of these damn weasels who have never been in challenging or dangerous situations for critizing people who take meaningful and appropriate measures to respond appropriately to a given situation. For you spineless creeps who want to sit on a safe sideline and criticise, just step forward and put on a uniform, put yourself in harms way and see how you will respond. Until then, keep your big condemning mouth shut.

    ***********************************
    Hugh ,,,,,,,,Well said and thank you for your service,,,,these liberals owe you and yours a lot…………….

  • Mick

    Doc Sarvis says:
    November 15, 2010 at 12:03 pm
    Our enemies are Not above using torture. As a proud American, I know that America should be above stooping to the immoral act of torture.

    *******************************************
    Doc…That so call immoral act may save your sorry azz someday,’it comes a time to say enough is enough and the turning of the other cheek doesn’t protect us one bit…Get off your high horse with your immoral remark for the democratic party is the poster child of immorality…

    • Doc Sarvis

      That immoral act will probably land me in Hell at the end of my days. That immoral act, and others, have done more to strengthen the Taliban than anything else. We are playing right into their hands/defeating ourselves by stooping to their level.

      • alpha-lemming

        So…. the next beheading??? They’ll put away their scimitars and use spatulas… butter knives… tea-spoons?? Anything to up the suffering quotient. When dealing with animals (and I don’t use the term lightly) like these guys, fear will get you more respect than playing nicey-nice. Negotiation is for reasonable antagonists. What’s a good compromise with a guy that wants you dead?? Think he’ll be satisfied if you willingly cede a few body parts??

      • Granny Mae

        Doc,
        show me the proof of that statement !

      • http://naver sook young

        OK Doc, then you approve of these groups beheadding people on film and showing it on television? Waterboarding is not nearly as bad or psychologically effective as this is. Thank you.

        Sook Young
        Wife of the Samurai

  • eddie47d

    Amnesty International has no ties to the Democratic Party;They expose torture all over the world. They have saved numerous lives over the years and even have kept some bad guys from winning. I wish they could do alot more and yes they have condemned the Saudi government (that government tortures ordinary citizens who have minor infractions).They have exposed all the rape and tortue that is going on in the Congo by soldiers and has been trying to get their government officials to stop it. Evil is evil and the world needs all the help it can get to make all nations accountable.

    • Angel Wannabe

      eddie, America needs to take care of it’s own first!__we need to mind our own damn business and not worry about everyone elses!

      • Vigilant

        Angel,

        You’re 100% correct.

        Two of the quirks of the liberal mindset are (1) a compelling urge to stick their noses in everyone else’s business, and (2) the naiive assumption that they know better than you how to conduct your business.

        • Angel Wannabe

          Honestly Vigilant I believe the US is in bed with every country in the world, pardon the French, just like whore!__

        • eddie47d

          I love the contradictions! “we should mind our own business” and “liberals have urge to stick nose into other peoples business”. We’ve been sticking our nose into other nations business for many decades. That seems to be more of a conservative trait. So Vigilante maybe liberals do know better and you proved that to yourself.

          • Angel Wannabe

            eddie47d, Soros called your checks ready!

        • Granny Mae

          Vigilant,
          You are so right !

          • eddie47d

            No,He is a tad off his rocker.

          • http://naver samurai

            Actually, he’s aiming “center mass” as we say in the army, edduh. Good desciption of a lib, Vigilant. Keep up the goo fight, fellow patriot! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • eddie47d

            As I said, a better description of a conservative.Now did either of us prove anything?

          • http://naver samurai

            Yes, you’re still off to the left of center. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

    • alpha-lemming

      They’ve saved numerous lives over the years?? Maybe… Hopefully. Or maybe they’ve prolonged and increased said atrocities?? Who’s to say. Personal experience has taught me that “Hey… you over there… STOP THAT” works about 50% the time. The other half of the time, the transgressor shows increased speed and vigor applied to the objectionable behavior. Exposure will only affect people with some semblance of honor and are concerned with public perception. Otherwise, evil gets thrown into over-drive (the holocaust comes to mind) and the casualties mutiply faster.

      • Kinetic1

        alpha-lamming,
        So it’s best to turn a blind eye and hope for the best? You don’t stop a bully by ignoring him. Sure, the attention may increase his bullying, but in that case you gather others to fight him. You point out his history of bullying and show that it will not get better. Did we learn nothing from allowing Hitler to take over Austria, Czechoslovakia and Poland in his attempt to “unify” the Germanic nations? Had we not allowed those first steps, had we called him on his aggressions and used force to stop him when he continued we might have saved many of the 60 million lives lost in WWII.

        • alpha-lemming

          Nope… don’t ignore… you kick the snot out of him (physically, financially or ostracization from the world community) to a point where the bullying comes at too high a price to continue. Unfortunately, too many of your “good-lib Neville Chamberlain (sorry…your example if you insist on the Hitler defense), war is never the answer” brethren would rather die nobly (and me with ‘em) than engage in “icky” violence. Getting tough with bad-guys is more than “no more mint on your pillow at the Gitmo Hilton”.

        • Vigilant

          Kinetic:

          “So it’s best to turn a blind eye and hope for the best? You don’t stop a bully by ignoring him. Sure, the attention may increase his bullying, but in that case you gather others to fight him.”

          Now that, sir, is an eloquent argument for the invasion of Iraq.

          “Did we learn nothing from allowing Hitler to take over Austria, Czechoslovakia and Poland in his attempt to “unify” the Germanic nations? Had we not allowed those first steps, had we called him on his aggressions and used force to stop him when he continued we might have saved many of the 60 million lives lost in WWII.”

          How VERY strange to see a left winger play the appeasement card!

          Appeasement, you can bet your bottom dollar, is not a conservative notion but a liberal notion. Political correctness is one example of appeasement that sure didn’t prevent soldiers from dying at Fort Hood. Failing to crack down on Iran by not instituting a full embargo of oil imports is appeasement. And, outlawing enhanced interrogation techniques out of naiive fear of reprisal is appeasement at its best.

        • Granny Mae

          Well Iguess you can holler at them and when they fip you the bird you can holler back “shame on you that isn’t nice !”

    • Michael J.

      eddie47d said:
      “Amnesty International has no ties to the Democratic Party”

      This bold face lie stinks worst than your last load of bovine excrement. Do some research and you’ll find that George Soros feeds money to this outfit in exchange for their unjust focus on people, countries and their policies with which he disagrees in an ongoing effort to colapse capitalism in western societies.

      • eddie47d

        Soros “wants to destroy Capitalism” when he is one of the biggest Capitalist in the world. I know Capitalists are greedy lying sons of a bithes but even your comment is a stretch. Maybe A.I. doesn’t get as much money from Republicans because they like to see people tortured and do little to stop it. A.I. doesn’t set political boundries in donations so if you’d like to see an Iranian dissident freed then donate . Then we’ll see if it can happen and you will be a part of the solution.

        • Michael J.

          eddie47d,
          First you align yourself with this supposed benevolent compassionate oganization, and in the next breath call your fellow countrymen “greedy lying sons a bitches”. Not very convincing.

          Soros is above capitalism, comes a time when gold and jewels lose their luster. Stealing dollars from the working people of the world becomes boring after you’ve obtained 27 billion of them. Power and control is the currency that puts the sparkle in his eye now.

  • jcrawdad

    The people wanting to investigate President Bush’s waterboarding, need to shut the hell up. The government under Bush’s call saved a lot of peoples lives by getting the bad asses to talk.

    • Doc Sarvis

      Let’s see; President Bush ignored his Presidential Daily Brief that said we would be attacked. 9/11 3,000 Americans killed. Bush drums up false reasons to go to war with Iraq (not at all involved with 9/11); over 4,300 more Americans killed (over 31,700 Americans wounded). 100,000 or more Iraqi people killed, unknown 100′s of thousands of Iraqi people wounded. This is just a start. There is NO Credible evidence that our torture saved Any lives while there is plenty of evidence that our torture helped the Taliban recruit more terrorists. Well done President Bush?

      • Kinetic1

        While we’re talking about Bush protecting our nation, an excerpt from the PDB and Bush’s response.
        “Bin Ladin determined to strike in U.S.”
        “We have not been able to corroborate some of the more sensational threat reporting, such as that from a [--] service in 1998 saying that Bin Ladin wanted to hijack a US aircraft to gain the release of “Blind Shaykh” ‘Umar ‘Abd al-Rahman and other US-held extremists.
        Nevertheless, FBI information since that time indicates patterns of suspicious activity in this country consistent with preparations for hijackings or other types of attacks, including recent surveillance of federal buildings in New York.

        The President received this sobering information at his Crawford ranch, while on vacation. He told the briefer, “Well, you’ve covered your ass,” and moved on.”

        • Angel Wannabe

          So tell me Kinetic, what your saying is, we’re suppose to retaliate BEFORE being attacked???___ I believe you lefties have lost your marbles, or for a more KINDER GENTILER APPROACH,__ one sandwich shy of a picnic!__

          • Doc Sarvis

            If you think just a little bit you can understand that we can stop attacks before they happen. This has been done with good intelligence, similar to what Bush was given in his PDB.

          • Vigilant

            Yeah, Doc, and Obama has known for some time that Iran’s getting nukes. Care to take that on?

          • Angel Wannabe

            DS, If you think every bit of intelligence is going to stop an attack, then the CIA sure blew it on Fort Hood!__Why Do you think these terrorists are so good at what they do, BECAUSE there is more than ONE plan?!!__Hell if one group is caught, they probably have another identical plan set up, with a whole new set of players__C’Mon, these terrorists are shrewed and have been doing this for 100′s of years___They’re not stupid.___which is exactly why I say AGAIN, the bureaucrats and civilians a like, should shut up and stay out of it, and let it to the professional war strategist!!!__

          • Kinetic1

            The point is that Bush chose to ignore the information avail…. Oh to heck with it. It’s pointless to even try to make you understand that water boarding and other forms of torture were not the best option and only weakened our nation’s stand for justice. You will never accept that the former administration chose to ignore warning after warning before 9/11, used the attack as justification to start 2 wars, wasted our people and our resources, and has undermined our nation for the sake of making the rich richer. You have your mind set and I have mine. Good luck to you all.

          • http://naver sook young

            Kinetic1? You mean like how Clinton chose to ignore the information he had on Osama bin Laden and let him live another day? Thank you.

            Sook Young
            Wife of the Samurai

          • Granny Mae

            Kinetic1,

            Since gitmo is way over in Cuba and there is not a lot of communications from there tell me how you think the enemy got wind of waterboarding so as to make all these matters worse? First I don’t believe for one minute it did make matters worse but that information was the responsibility of the news media ! If they were concerned for the safety of our men then they should have sat on that information instead of putting it out there for the world to know about ! The time to do anything about that kind of info, is after there is no longer a threat to our service men and women ! So if it did effect their safety then put the blame where it should be, on the guy that made it known world wide !

        • Vigilant

          Kinetic:

          “We have not been able to corroborate some of the more sensational threat reporting, such as that from a [--] service in 1998 saying that Bin Ladin wanted to hijack a US aircraft to gain the release of “Blind Shaykh” ‘Umar ‘Abd al-Rahman and other US-held extremists.”

          Funny how you ignore the YEAR: 1998.

          And Clinton had Bin Laden in his sights for the kill, even had him offered up on a silver platter, but did nothing about it. You want to blame 9/11 on someone, blame it on Clinton.

          • eddie47d

            Here we go again with that tired old argument. After Clinton sent missiles into Afghanistan and narrowly missed BinLaden he wanted to make further strikes . The Republicans in Congress said no to going after him since the first strike was incomplete. They wouldn’t authorize more funding so end of story. (That really makes the Republicans the party of No).

        • Angel Wannabe

          Damn good point vigilant!

        • Granny Mae

          OK so maybe he was aware there could be an attack on this country, what the heck is he suppose to do? If they had know exactly what was going to happen and when and by who they could do what? Can you arrest a man for a crime before he commits it? If they did then where would your alegience be? With the poor guy who got arrested for thinking of commiting a crime? Probably ! Get real !

      • 45caliber

        My my. Where did you find out Bush was told on his daily briefing about 9/11 ahead of time? This is the first time I’ve heard of it.

      • Vigilant

        Doc,

        According to Justice Department documents, the waterboarding of Khalid Sheik Mohammed provided information about an unrealized terrorist attack on Los Angeles.

        And if the attack had proceeded, who do you think would have been blamed? 3 guesses, the first two don’t count.

  • Teresa

    I will tell you why the story bothers me so much. The Obama administration has been bent on destroying Bush and his name from day one. Him and his known associates w/the Hamas w/CAIR, Holder, the Justice Dept. and his appointed Czars. From the time Obama has taken office we have heard story after story of Bush’s faults, investigation after investigation. Does anyone EVER stop to think WHY so much attention has been paid to Bush after the fact? Is everyone fully aware that the jihad muslims put a hit on Bush while in office. That these same CAIR’s are associated to the current President? That the top jihad CAIR officials have had meetings w/members of congress and the President himself? That you can see the documented proof yourself! Does it matter to anyone that our current President will not defy jihad but will continue to pronounce his distaste towards the former President??? Do you know how many members in Congress are jihad? Do you know how many trained in our own military? Do you know where they are mainly based at and what the Real purpose of the mosques are? You better start getting the whole picture quick, for its more than a mere investigation…it’s a smear campaign.

    • Kinetic1

      Teresa,
      If only these “investigations” you speak of were real. The reason the Bush administration keeps coming up is all the damage they did. Need an example? Have you read about “fraking” lately? Have you heard about people with tap water that can be set on fire? That is the direct result of the Bush administration’s policy on energy. It is the result of Cheaney’s “Haliburton loophole” that exempts the Gas industry from the Clean Water Act. We tried to do something in 2003-4, but with the Republicans in charge of everything, there was little we could do. So now it’s all coming out. Now livestock is dying, farms are being destroyed and people who once had clean wells have to ship their water in. If only the White House had been willing to investigate the crimes of the Bush administration as you suggest.

      • Teresa

        oh Kinetic you truly are sad if you do not belief this…if you would like I would gladly send you a copy of the FBI copies of the transcripts that were confinscated from CAIR meetings to be shredded. Have you read Muslim Mafia Kinetic?

      • Vigilant

        “That is the direct result of the Bush administration’s policy on energy. It is the result of Cheaney’s [sic] “Haliburton loophole” that exempts the Gas industry from the Clean Water Act. We tried to do something in 2003-4, but with the Republicans in charge of everything, there was little we could do.”

        Gee, and you’ve had how many years since 2004 to do something about it? Especially the last two years with the Democrats in charge? If the current administration and Congress haven’t done anything, what would you call that? Complicit? Accessory?

        • Angel Wannabe

          Vigilant__Exactly Right!!!!___I call it waiting for a perfect oppertunity to again Blame Bush!!!__It’s all BS!

          • eddie47d

            If you keep saying it then it has to be! Since Kinetic brought up fracking and contaminated water, what are you going to do about it? Will you help stop this contamination in parts of our country or assume that’s okay. One group of Americans have to sacrifice (those with bad water) so others can have the energy product. Will these gas drillers be responsible for these problems or will it be business as usual? Do we make these “BP crises” accountable upfront or wait until after the damage is done? That’s an American issue if you are up to the challange.

          • Angel Wannabe

            Well eddie47d__ you seem to think you know so damn much, I’ll ask you what your doing for the effort???___You only ask questions like that when your out of ammo to support your thoughts, then you jump on folks, when they don’t give you the answer your looking for!!!!___Most of us on this site are doing what we can both at home and/or abroad. We may not all move mountains, we may all not be war heros, but alot are on here__ but dammit, we take care of our own___cuz Charity starts at home!!!!

          • eddie47d

            You are accusing me of doing exactly what you are doing! Answer the question and then move on, darling.

        • Teresa

          In an unprecedented series of Capitol Hill briefings, a coalition of former U.S. intelligence officials, military officials, FBI investigators and federal prosecutors plans to warn incoming Republican lawmakers about what they say is a seditious threat to national security from radical Muslim Brotherhood front groups in America.

          The coalition, organized by the Washington-based Center for Security Policy, will urge congressional leaders to “hold urgent hearings to assess the damage” from Brotherhood influence operations, and pass Cold War-style legislation to help ferret out such subversive Islamist elements operating within U.S. borders.

          Currently, the officials say, the FBI and Pentagon have no formal counterintelligence programs in place to guard against Brotherhood infiltration efforts targeting Washington.

          “Under both parties, the U.S. government has comprehensively failed to grasp the true nature of this enemy,” the group warns in a 352-page report distributed to winners of the 2010 elections and other members of Congress.

          ——————————————————————————–

          ——————————————————————————–
          HOMELAND INSECURITY

          Airports? Congress warned jihadists already ‘inside gate’
          Ex-security officials say Shariah creep ‘tantamount to sedition’

          ——————————————————————————–
          Posted: November 15, 2010
          9:27 pm Eastern

          © 2010 WorldNetDaily

          In an unprecedented series of Capitol Hill briefings, a coalition of former U.S. intelligence officials, military officials, FBI investigators and federal prosecutors plans to warn incoming Republican lawmakers about what they say is a seditious threat to national security from radical Muslim Brotherhood front groups in America.

          The coalition, organized by the Washington-based Center for Security Policy, will urge congressional leaders to “hold urgent hearings to assess the damage” from Brotherhood influence operations, and pass Cold War-style legislation to help ferret out such subversive Islamist elements operating within U.S. borders.

          Currently, the officials say, the FBI and Pentagon have no formal counterintelligence programs in place to guard against Brotherhood infiltration efforts targeting Washington.

          “Under both parties, the U.S. government has comprehensively failed to grasp the true nature of this enemy,” the group warns in a 352-page report distributed to winners of the 2010 elections and other members of Congress.

          Find out what Islam has planned for you. Get “Muslim Mafia,” the book that exposed the Muslim Brotherhood and organizations like the Council on American Islamic Relations from the inside out, autographed, from WND’s Superstore!

          In addition, the group will present case studies of influence operations the Brotherhood has mounted against the U.S. government.

          The Muslim Brotherhood, a worldwide jihadist movement based in Egypt and heavily funded by Saudi Arabia, is the parent of Hamas and al-Qaida. It shares al-Qaida’s goals of imposing Shariah law in the West and re-establishing the Islamic caliphate to rule in accordance with it.

          ——————————————————————————–

          ——————————————————————————–
          HOMELAND INSECURITY

          Airports? Congress warned jihadists already ‘inside gate’
          Ex-security officials say Shariah creep ‘tantamount to sedition’

          ——————————————————————————–
          Posted: November 15, 2010
          9:27 pm Eastern

          © 2010 WorldNetDaily

          In an unprecedented series of Capitol Hill briefings, a coalition of former U.S. intelligence officials, military officials, FBI investigators and federal prosecutors plans to warn incoming Republican lawmakers about what they say is a seditious threat to national security from radical Muslim Brotherhood front groups in America.

          The coalition, organized by the Washington-based Center for Security Policy, will urge congressional leaders to “hold urgent hearings to assess the damage” from Brotherhood influence operations, and pass Cold War-style legislation to help ferret out such subversive Islamist elements operating within U.S. borders.

          Currently, the officials say, the FBI and Pentagon have no formal counterintelligence programs in place to guard against Brotherhood infiltration efforts targeting Washington.

          “Under both parties, the U.S. government has comprehensively failed to grasp the true nature of this enemy,” the group warns in a 352-page report distributed to winners of the 2010 elections and other members of Congress.

          Find out what Islam has planned for you. Get “Muslim Mafia,” the book that exposed the Muslim Brotherhood and organizations like the Council on American Islamic Relations from the inside out, autographed, from WND’s Superstore!

          In addition, the group will present case studies of influence operations the Brotherhood has mounted against the U.S. government.

          The Muslim Brotherhood, a worldwide jihadist movement based in Egypt and heavily funded by Saudi Arabia, is the parent of Hamas and al-Qaida. It shares al-Qaida’s goals of imposing Shariah law in the West and re-establishing the Islamic caliphate to rule in accordance with it.

          (Story continues below)

          Shariah law is an Islamic legal code that administers “cruel and unusual punishments” against women, homosexuals and non-Muslims, according to the report. It also limits free speech and expression, including the liberty to analyze and criticize Shariah, making it “incompatible with the U.S. Constitution.”

          “In fact,” the coalition argues, “Shariah’s pursuit in the United States is tantamount to sedition.”

          The group says laws empowering the FBI and other agencies to crack down on Soviet infiltrations during the Cold War may not be enough to protect Washington from Brotherhood penetrations. It warns that the Brotherhood is already “embedded deep inside both the United States and our allies,” and its agents are more “sophisticated” than Soviet spies and “highly skilled in exploiting the civil liberties and multicultural proclivities of Western societies.”

          “The prior experience would not mean the security precautions that sufficed to protect the nation from communism are sufficient to shield us from a totalitarian ideology cloaked in religious garb,” the group asserts in its report, without elaborating.

          On Tuesday, the group, led by former senior Pentagon official Frank Gaffney, is scheduled to hold a meeting with congressional staffers and leaders – including Rep. Doug Lamborn, R-Colo., member of the House Armed Services Committee – to discuss the threat Shariah poses to First Amendment and other rights.

          A few years ago, FBI investigators uncovered a trove of Brotherhood documents in the Northern Virginia basement of a senior Brotherhood leader under investigation for terrorism. The archives established a subversive network in America that happens to include some of the country’s largest mainstream Muslim groups.

          Among other entities, the secret documents listed: the Islamic Society of North America; an umbrella group for several Muslim organizations; the North American Islamic Trust; which owns most of the major mosques in America; the Holy Land Foundation, at the time the nation’s largest Islamic charity; and the Council on American-Islamic Relations, the nation’s largest Muslim advocacy group.

          U.S. prosecutors entered the Brotherhood documents into evidence in the Holy Land Foundation trial, which ended in 2008 with convictions on all 108 counts. ISNA, NAIT and CAIR were added to a list of unindicted co-conspirators in the terror-financing case.

          The Brotherhood network’s strategy papers called for a “grand jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and ‘sabotaging’ its miserable house … so that Allah’s religion is made victorious over all other religions.”

          So-called Shariah creep, formerly confined to Canada and Britain, has become an issue in America.

          In 2009, for example, a New Jersey family court judge denied a request for a restraining order by a woman whose Muslim husband had serially tortured and raped her. The judge ruled on the grounds that the abusive husband had acted according to his Shariah beliefs, which condone wife beating and marital rape. A New Jersey appellate court overturned the ruling last July.

          Oklahoma earlier this month overwhelmingly passed a constitutional ban on Shariah law. But a U.S. district court judge has delayed its certification pending a lawsuit filed by CAIR.

          CAIR argues that “Shariah is a dynamic legal framework derived from the Quran” and other Islamic scripture, and is confirmed by scholars using “analytical reasoning.” It claims it is not a set of fixed principles and is flexible, applied differently throughout the Muslim world.

          Not so, argues the anti-Shariah security coalition. “In fact, for especially the Sunni and with regard to non-Muslims, there is ultimately but one Shariah,” it says in its report titled, “Shariah: The Threat to America.”

          CAIR insists a parallel legal system based on Shariah punishments – such as stonings, amputations, death sentences for apostates, and other human-rights abuses witnessed in Saudi Arabia and other Muslim states – is not being proposed in America.

          “No one has or will ever propose anything to do with criminal punishments often associated with Shariah,” CAIR says.

          However, CAIR’s leaders are on record expressing their desire to institutionalize Shariah law in America.

          “I wouldn’t want to create the impression that I wouldn’t like the government of the United States to be Islamic sometime in the future,” CAIR Communications Director Ibrahim Hooper told a Minneapolis Star-Tribune reporter in 1993, before CAIR was created.

          CAIR’s founding chairman Omar Ahmad wants Shariah law to replace the Constitution.

          “Islam isn’t in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become dominant,” Ahmad told a Muslim audience in Fremont, Calif., in 1998. “The Quran should be the highest authority in America.”

          CAIR Executive Director Nihad Awad believes Muslims are best suited to run Washington: “Who better can lead America than Muslims?” Evidence introduced during the Holy Land trial showed that Awad participated in a 1993 meeting with Hamas leaders at a Philadelphia hotel.

          CAIR says it’s a “civil rights advocacy group,” but the Justice Department says it’s a front group for Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood, which prosecutors say has a plan to not only support violent jihad but impose Shariah law on the U.S.

          “From its founding by Muslim Brotherhood leaders, CAIR conspired with other affiliates of the Muslim Brotherhood to support terrorists,” said assistant U.S. Attorney Gordon Kromberg in a recent federal court filing, as quoted in the book, “Muslim Brotherhood: Inside the Secret Underworld That’s Conspiring to Islamize America,” which exposes Muslim Brotherhood front groups in America.

    • Granny Mae

      Teresa,

      Smart gal. You are seeing the things that should be seen by people that are truly Americans and patriotic. Good for you. The rest of these bleeding hearts are too busy crying foul to see what is right before their eyes. When they finally do see it they will find a way to spin it so they don’t have to admit they were wrong!

  • http://com i41

    k=1 or is it k-y, what crrap are you talking about dying livestock and farms being destroyed? The biggest thing destroying farms is the paying of land ownered, to sit on their a$$es and collect millions or in ADM’s case billions of taxpayers money. Now Onumnutts and the NMCDUP, the National Marxist Communist Democrat Union Party wants more land idled that has produced crops. As for tap water being lite on fire, you simple minded dirt ball, it has been going on since water wells were bored. It just shows your stupidity of beleiving MSNBC and all the other numskulled pavement poundering NY stations. With your posts, I would guess you swallowed Dingy Reid b–l s–t, on not using Yucca Mt for storage of nuke waste. As for water boarding I think when pervs are caught and will not tell where a body or capitives are kept, water board the pukes, they have no rights. Another area all dumbocraps have a fit about is Haliburton, this company pays it workers well and has great benefits, and has broke several unions. When problems need some one to do a job, they are the people to call, not some book trained pusified jackass. As for the BP mess in the gulf it was Whorehound Clinton’s bright idea to avoid paying taxes on energy to the governments taxpayers. Now since you purple lipped, compulisive liar, marxist muslim moron has stopped a pipeline from going to the gulf to sell oil, to open market buyers, we will not be able pay of our massive debt your socialist party has created!

  • 45caliber

    Amnesty International is one of the most useless organizations I’ve ever seen. They supposedly check all countries of the world to determine how badly they do at honoring the human rights of their citizens. However, if the country will not allow them to come and will not give them any information, they give them a 100% score on human rights. I would think they should give Zeros instead.

    Since the US gives them everything they want, we get the lowest scores and they are always raising Cain about us.

    As long as they won’t actually bother to check the real story of human rights all their information and media comments are more trouble than they are of help to anyone.

    • eddie47d

      That is not true about their scoring. They only score on matters they can get reliable information on. They judge on many topics such as prison population,torture and racism. A low score such as Saudi Arabia (21) is not really good. This is because few can get into that country to monitor. On the other hand Iran got a score of 370 which is really bad. The higher the score the more violations. It also means Iran is a more open society than Saudi Arabia because reports can come out of the country. Amnesty International doesn’t have kind words for Venezuela yet they scored better than the Saudi’s This is because people can exchange more ideas and travel to and from Venezuela. Russia scored terribly because of all the ethnic strife. They are deffinetely not a useless organization and no one gets a free pass as you were suggesting.

      • Vigilant

        “A low score such as Saudi Arabia (21) is not really good. This is because few can get into that country to monitor. On the other hand Iran got a score of 370 which is really bad. The higher the score the more violations. It also means Iran is a more open society than Saudi Arabia because reports can come out of the country.”

        Thank you for confirming, with your own words, why the scoring system is meaningless. Extrapolating this example, we can therefore conclude that the more closed (tyrannical) a society is, the lower their human rights abuse scores. But that’s liberal “voodoo” math for you!

      • 45caliber

        I think that is what I just said.

        • eddie47d

          They don’t score on matters that they cannot prove as facts. We all know the Saudi’s torture but no one dares come out and present the facts of that torture. That is like saying Caliber 45 is a pedophile, but I better have facts to back it up. Right Mr Caliber?

  • Rush

    Tell the candy ass, cry baby liberals to go fly a kite. They have no idea about interrogation and the intelligence the military learns. This intelligence helps save American Military and civilian lives. “ALL’S FAIR IN LOVE AND WAR” The media, politicians, liberal idiots should not be involved with military operations once the politicans (Congress) has sent the troops into combat. The senior military commanders, of all services, have the expertise to carry out the missions. The politicians need to stay out of the way, it’s not about politicans being re-elected or fighting a polite war. “WAR IS HELL” and lives will be lost. If you can’t stop the rest of the world military and terroist from interrogation techniques you can’t handcuff the U.S. Military.

  • SeaDragon

    I shouldn’t, but I find it amazing how many liberals do not have a CLUE as to what a terrorist is. They are trying to kill Americans. They are trying to destroy America. If a little pain and terror get them to stop… I’m for it. If they don’t stop I would try (to old) to re-enlist to hunt them down. I would say “like the dogs they are” but then I would have to apologize to my Golden Retriever.

    Get over it folks. They knew when they became terrorists that we might not like that. Let ‘em suffer!

    • 45caliber

      I agree. In fact, I’d use a lot worse if I suspected they knew things that would save the lives of Americans.

      • eddie47d

        The best way to save American lives is to stay out of these foreign adventures. WWII is over and we are now meddling in other nations affairs. Either we get our oil through business deals or we should stay out of those countries. If we are getting our oil by means of war then we are conquerors.

        • Michael J.

          eddie47d said,
          “If we are getting our oil by means of war then we are conquerors”.

          Your statement implies that we fought a war with a nation and then took their oil. Exactly which nation would that be?

          • Angel Wannabe

            MichaelJ___I hear crickets___ and a no reply from eddie!

          • Granny Mae

            Angel,

            LOL ! I love you sweetie ! Good one !

          • Angel Wannabe

            Right back at’cha Granny Mae!

          • eddie47d

            Michael ; We set up a puppet government in Iran to get their oil and that back fired. We went to war in Iraq to get their oil and that has cost us dearly. I didn’t say we achieved our goal in our conquests now did I.

          • Michael J.

            eddie47d,
            We didn’t get oil fron Iraq or Iran because that was never the intent.
            You seem to relish wallering in bovine excrement.

          • eddie47d

            You are too naive to still believe that one.

          • http://naver samurai

            Sorry edduh, but take it from someone who was there and not the MSM. Most or almost all the oil that is produced in Iraq goes to Europe, as it always has been. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

        • Vigilant

          When in England at a fairly large conference, Colin Powell was asked by the Archbishop of Canterbury if our plans for Iraq were just an example of empire building by George Bush.

          He answered by saying that, “Over the years, the United States has sent many of its fine young men and women into great peril to fight for freedom beyond our borders. The only amount of land we have ever asked for in return is enough to bury those that did not return.”
          (snopes verified)

        • coal miner

          eddie47d,

          I agree with you.I think George Scab Bush shold be tried on war crimesBush will go down in history as the worst president.He is the very cause of the country’s worst economic mess, since The Great Depression and we may never recover from it.Here is more.

          The Bush administration spent eight years deregulating banks, making trade deals that sent American jobs overseas, and bankrupting our government by useless wars and tax cuts. Our big-time depression is the result. All those tax cuts for the rich were supposed to give them added investment capital to create new jobs.
          Did they do it? No. Wow. They just got richer. Imagine that.
          So what should we do next? More of the same?Elect that ding bat Sarah Palin and we can finish off this great nation of ours,once and for all.

          Read more: http://www.theolympian.com/2010/10/24/1414389/republicans-got-us-into-this-mess.html#ixzz15aJSRVxR

          • coal miner

            Should

          • http://naver samurai

            Same old lib rhetoric. Baaaaa! Baaaaa! Baaaaa! Baaaaa! Baaaaa! Baaaaa! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

    • Vigilant

      For the libs, there are no terrorists; they’re “freedom fighters,” and there is no such thing as terrorism: it’s “man made disasters.”

      As Bugs would say, “what a bunch of maroons.”

      • Angel Wannabe

        Vigilant__-lol!!!!!

      • eddie47d

        Vigilante; The British thought our Revolutionaries were terrorists. They were mad because we wouldn’t fight an honorable war and face them on an open battle field. Soldier to soldier;we hit an run and hid behind trees and sniped at them. So one mans terrorist IS another mans freedom fighter.

        • Angel Wannabe

          Yeah Eddie47D, and thats how we Got AMERICA!!!!!

        • Michael J.

          eddie47d,
          So in essence, you are equating British tyrany inflicted on the colonists with America’s liberation of 50,000,000 Iraqi and Afgan civilians?
          What a Bufoon! Even the British now acknowledge that the acts of the colonists were justified.

        • Vigilant

          “Vigilante; The British thought our Revolutionaries were terrorists. They were mad because we wouldn’t fight an honorable war and face them on an open battle field. Soldier to soldier;we hit an run and hid behind trees and sniped at them. So one mans terrorist IS another mans freedom fighter.”

          Three points, sonny:

          (1) The word “terrorist” had not even been coined in the 18th century.

          (2) Your studied indifference to the meaning of the word “terrorist” would be truly amazing if we didn’t take into account that you are a leftist. One more time: terrorists purposely TARGET innocent populations. To equate terrorists with freedom fighters is a confusing and dangerous form of sophistry.

          (3) Implying that the American colonists were terrorists by ANY definition makes you not just unappreciative of what they did for us, it makes you unworthy of one ounce of respect.

          • eddie47d

            I never implied that our Revolutionaries were terrorists. That is your spin and very bad at that. The British did not have high thoughts of the rebelling Colonialists. Thugs,troublemakers,traitors,ragtag militants,lack of loyalty.(you know, what we now call terrorists)Using unconventional methods to achieve their goals. So you can spin my point any which way you want by making me seem un-American but it isn’t going to work. I’m use to your antics.

          • Michael J.

            Sorry, this must have been a different eddie47d who made this comment.

            “Vigilante; The British thought our Revolutionaries were TERRORISTS. They were mad because we wouldn’t fight an honorable war and face them on an open battle field. Soldier to soldier;we hit an run and hid behind trees and sniped at them. So one mans terrorist IS another mans freedom fighter”.

    • meteorlady

      As far as people trying to destroy America – the terrorist aren’t even at the top of the list.

      Here’s a list:
      Bildeberg Group
      Rothchilds
      George Soros
      moveon.org
      New Black Panthers
      Maurice Strong: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJdHFkSFCHM
      InfraGard
      Ben Santer (advocate of global warming)

      Try all that for some research and get really alarmed.

  • http://com i41

    Every time we catch a goat rider trying to cause death and destruction, water board the pervert for 24 hours right now, to find out other sick perverted bastards in the country, that are already here. The crap about making them trust you, so they will talk, what a joke, it just gives more those idoits a longer lead time to escape out of the country. Second, while talking, where, when, and who did they aquire a way in to the USA, as well as the supplies. Liberals are the terrorists and have trouble defending and protecting the USA, just take the NMCDUP members, all liberials and all one worlders who want to destroy USA

  • http://none Mike

    Boy we get off on comparitive theology here, Here is my opinion for what its worth. I belive the prisoners at git-mo had life far better there than the did in their own country. That the decision was made to waterbord a few of them for information was in my opinion a bad one. There were much better ways. I say we should have put a pig-pen right outside of the cells and made sure that they knew if the information wasent forthcomming they would be required to work in it 8 hrs a day untill it was. As far as amnisty international is concerned they started out as a grass roots organization right here in the states I think some 20 years or so ago. They are now a fully owned subsidary of the U.N. They still do some good works cant be denied but where were they when our own soldiers were burned and hung from bridges. Where were they when Danial Peral dissappeard. Where were they when the serbians were killed in that theater in Bosnia?They have chosen this fight because its high profile and involves that horrible country thats so steeped in torture us. It will give them face time on every television on every network around the world for a while. I now have to assume its all about the money this case will draw in and the attention it will bring their organization. That they started out meaning well is not in doubt but now its just another allyway for people that hate us to try and bring us down. Mike L.

    • Vigilant

      “I say we should have put a pig-pen right outside of the cells and made sure that they knew if the information wasent forthcomming they would be required to work in it 8 hrs a day untill it was.”

      Sorry, the libs and Amnesty Int’l would call that REAL torture. In their mindless minds, religious persecution of Muslims is close to a capital offense. Persecution of Christians, on the other hand, is worthy of a Nobel Prize.

      • http://none Mike

        Yea but god it would have been enjoyable to watch lol. Probly would have worked too. Mike L.

      • eddie47d

        Where has Amnesty International endorsed the persecution of Christians? Where do you get you’re corny innuendos or is it just good political theater to blow smoke. You strike out on this one Vigilante for You have to have a mind first to even post your last mindless comment.

        • http://none Mike

          I havent seen where they have either Eddie I just pointed out they chose this as what I think will be a high profile circus type case.It would certinly benifit them there is no doubt.I also pointed out a few they passed on where our soldigers and citizens were targeted for torture and death. As well as some attrosities committed by Russia that seem to have gotten a pass. Mike L.

        • Granny Mae

          Oh boy I don’t believe you said that! Check out the plight of Christians in flight from Iraq or those still in Iraq ! I don’t see them doing a damn thing about these poor Christians at all. I don’t see them doing a thing to help them. One group of them fled to an abandon town in the north and as soon as they were found out the talibon went there and killed everyone of them. They were not fighting anyone they just wanted to live in peace and not bother anyone or be bothered by anyone and now they are dead. Where is your so called Amnesty International now? These were old men women and children ! My God you make me sick !

          • http://none Mike

            Yea I had forgotten about that one. I guess it was just another one of thoes passes because it wasent high profile enough for them. Mike L.

          • eddie47d

            Amnesty International would bring up their cause if it presented to them. There are thousands of these cases out there in many countries. It costs millions to shed light on even a few of them and years of hard work. If more people got envolved and put pressure on these rouge governments maybe they will start treating their citizens equally. Yes,Iraq is still a dangerous rouge government. A.I. doesn’t quite have the power of government officials or world armies so it is a tougher row to hoe.

          • meteorlady

            Amnesty International is part of the new world order plan. They pick and choose, just like all the liberal organization do, what cause they will defend. They cause has to be high profile and get a lot of press otherwise it’s useless to them.

            Maybe all here who advocate that they are a good and just organization should consider what part they play in the plan for new world order.

            For those of you that don’t believe… there is an old YouTube video on exactly what new world order is for. These are the precepts by which Soros and Strong believe will save the world and put them and their elite buddies into absolute power and control.

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIcs3KrBc18&NR=1&feature=fvwp

      • Angel Wannabe

        vigilant____your words__“I say we should have put a pig-pen right outside of the cells and made sure that they knew if the information wasent forthcomming they would be required to work in it 8 hrs a day untill it was.”

        REQUIRED TO WORK 8 HOURS IN BARE FEET, THAT SHOULD PROBABLY DO IT!!!!

        • http://none Mike

          Nope Angel he pulled that off my comment from above and was replying to me. Mike L.

  • lcfrontenac

    One of the biggest problems with Amnesty International and their Liberal enablers is their policy of moral equivalency.

    Waterboarding by the US is just as bad as beheading by Al Quaeda. The death penalty for a murderer in the US is just as bad as stoning an adulterous woman to death in Iran. And so on. A policy of moral equivalency undermines whatever credibility the organization could have.

    AI also equated the frat-boy activities of the US troops guarding Abu Gharaib prison in Iraq with the genuine atrocities committed earlier by Saddam Hussein’s torturers in the same prison.

    EVERYTHING described as “acts of torture” performed by the Abu Gharaib squad were similar to acts VOLUNTARILY submitted to by hundreds of fraternity pledges in US colleges every year! Amnesty International condemned these acts as equivalent to the rape, maiming, dismemberment and death inflicted by Saddam’s torturers in the same prison months and years earlier.

    As far as true equivalency goes, waterboarding sounds about as much like real torture as a “wedgie”, a “pink belly”, an “indian burn”, or “noogies”.

    • Vigilant

      Excellent points!

    • meteorlady

      There is a video floating around that is most upsetting – it’s a woman (very young) being stoned to death for being raped. It’s in the middle of the village and the many men surround her. They kick her, beat her and throw stones at her. The final blow is a cement block dropped three times on her head.

      These are the people we hope to negotiate with? Gads – where the heck is Amnesty International for that one? Do they care at all?

      To compare women being stoned to death in this manner, and for the “crime of being raped, with waterboarding is ludicrous. To compare this type of behavior to anything human is ridiculous.

  • eddie47d

    “Fratboy activities” You need to lay down those video games and join the real world. You’ve been in the fog of combat too long!

    • lcfrontenac

      Sorry to disillusion you, but I’ve never played a video game in my life. I live (and always have lived) in the real world.

      Tell us just ONE of the so-called “tortures” inflicted on the Abu Gharaib prisoners by the band of hillbilly guards that does NOT sound like a fraternity hazing prank.

      Just one.

    • lcfrontenac

      Still waiting, Eddie!

      Itemize and describe for us the real “torture” the Abu Gharaib prisoners were subjected to by their US captors, and explain how it differs from fraternity hazing.

      Let me start it for you:
      1) They had to strip and “dog pile” with each other
      2) They were walked on a leash like a dog
      3) They were “forced” to look at women not wearing a burka
      4) They had to listen to loud rock music

      Okay, you continue the list.

  • Daddyrick

    Most liberals seem to forget history when it is in their interest, but before you condemn George Bush to hell, read what Abe Lincoln did to save the union. His actions saved the nation and is revered as one of our greatest presidents. He took away more rights of individuals that were citizens of this country, not terrorists, than any president before or since. Our nation now pays homage to Lincoln, some day our nation should do the same for President Bush.

    • Angel Wannabe

      Daddyrick, thats what I say,_ Bush wasn’t perfect, but he didn’t lay and wait when they attacked us 9/11__he stood on what was left of the Twin towers and said “were going to get the people who did this!”

      • Robert Smith

        Quoted: “but he didn’t lay and wait when they attacked us 9/11__”

        No, he sat for seven minutes and then RAN around America on Air Force One before he got Obama’s family out of America.

        We would have been better off if he had done nothing.

        Rob

        • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Linda

          HEY YOU JERK OBAMA IS A MUSLIM AND HE DOES NOT LIKE WHITE PEOPLE IT IS VERY OBVIOUS HE USED THE SIMPLE MINDED WHITE WOMEN OF THE US TO GET VOTES FOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

        • meteorlady

          So – your are the President and on a visit to a school and you are told that American has been attacked and the Twin Towers and the Pentagon are the targets. What do you do? You sit quietly in shock and think about what you were just told. As for the airplane – that is protocol for the President when we are attacked. The Vice President and Speaker of the House was also found and protected. So what’s your point here? Just to make fun of Bush or what?

      • Kinetic1

        But he never really did. In fact, a year later he said “I don’t know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don’t care. It’s not that important. It’s not our priority.” In fact, his policies only made Al Qaeda stronger.

    • Kinetic1

      Lincoln’s policies helped bring a divided nation together and make it stronger, while Bush’s helped to divid and weaken the country. It will be a cold day when Bush is viewed in the same light as Lincoln.

      • Vigilant

        In my lifetime (and I’ll be 64 tomorrow), I’ve NEVER seen any president divide and weaken this nation to the extent that Barack Obama has done. You are blind to reality, sir!

        • Robert Smith

          Actually it is the right attacking Obama that is dividing America.

          Rob

          • http://naver samurai

            Let’s not forget the people who voted against his administraion and his cronies and the libs 2 weeks ago. What about his own people leaving him and the head of the DNC saying that he shouldn’t stay more than one term? How about many dems comming to the side of the patriots and start opposing what he wants in legislation? How about many in the Senate comming together for this earmark ban? How about 20 states, lead by Florida, that have successfully taken Obama bin Laden care to court on some parts of it are unconstitutional and is a violation of the Commerce Act? How about how he always answers the call for the arabs, but not for our ally Israel? How about when people started finding out what this fool was really like and started investigating him? In which many things were found to be illegal or unconstitutional. How about the fact that he refuses to prove where he was born? One of the first things that started me not believing in this POTUS was when he cancelled the National Day of Prayer, wouldn’t wear a flag pin, and wouldn’t place his hand over his heart during the National Anthem. What about the fact that while he was campaigning he claimed to be a Christian, but was caught during a nationally televised interview saying he was a muslim? It’s because of his policies, actions, and lies that have divided this country down the middle and we patriots are trying to get it back on the right track, but fools like you are only concerned with your illegal drugs, rump ranger lovers, killing babies, and the ways of handing out things instead of having people earn things by working and getting paid a fair wage for a fair day’s work. I’m sorry you want to come onto this site with your intentions to cause division, spread hate, demean God, and try to warp the Constitution to fit your humanist ideals. You moron are a waste of skin and are nothing more than a traitor yourself. I suggest that you take the time to perform a self evaluation of yourself before you continue down this road full of land mines. You know, one wrong step and “BOOM!” Believe me, I’m not going to come looking for you when that happens, no one will! You always talk about this fool, Tiller? What if the person who did this to him said they were atheist, Hindu, Muslim, etc? Would you be so hot as to always attack them for this matter? You’re just a little person in a big world Rob, but you’ll never make a difference for this country with this ignorant and destructive attitude of yours. I’ll ask you a question, moron. What do you think is an act of terrorism? The incident with this murderer or what happened to Americans at the hands of Al Queda? Being beheadded on video and released to the public to spread fear among you bleeding hearts. I suggest you get your head on straight. If you offer nothing in this debate but the same thing, different day things, lib rhetoric, and ignorance of the subjects at hand, then just go the hell home and don’t come back. Many of us here are getting tired of you. Keep up the good fight, fellow patriots! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

            P.S. Rob, my wife and I will be praying over you tonight.

          • meteorlady

            Bob you are wrong again – it’s the people that don’t like his policies and feel he is not there for the good our our country, but there for the good of One World Order. If he was green I would still feel that he was a puppet and dupe for the elites that want control of the world.

            You might benefit from reading up on Soros and Strong and then read about the Global Warming scam and study Ben Santer.

      • meteorlady

        Excuse me – Lincoln’s policies did divide the nation. If you take time to read the history of the 14th Amendment you might reconsider what you just said. The country was VERY divided. The 14th Amendment was passed without the legal ratification of the southern states. Seems the southern states were banded together by Military rule and the ruler voted for them – or some such. I remember reading about it but can’t find the link right now.

        The Republican party wanted it passed, but the southern Democrats opposed it. That was also the start of the KKK by southern Democrats. At first they hunted Republicans for their support of the measure, then it deteriorated to ex-slaves.

        Lincoln only fought to free the slaves because the industrialized northern states needed more cheap labor.

  • Jim

    Kill em all and let God sort them out. We are at war in case you left wing commies didn’t know it

    • Kinetic1

      Clearly you are of the same mind as the Islamic fundamentalists you hate.

      • http://naver samurai

        Kinetic, it’s obvious that you’ve never served or have been in an infantry unit. We used to say the same things in the army, so does that make our army on the same level as the terrorists? Thanks for calling all of we veterans and the ones serving now a bunch of terrorists. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

  • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Linda

    DID THOSE FILTHY DOGS CARE ABOUT THE 3000 LIFES THEY TOOK YOU DUMB JERKS, YOU PROBABLY DIDN’T LOSE ANYONE IN THAT HORROR STORY STUPID , STUPID PEOPLE

  • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Linda

    THOSE PEOPLE TORTURE PEOPLE ANYWAY WHOEVER SAID THERE WOULD BE REPROCUSSIONS I CAN’T BELIEVE YOU ARE SO IGNORANT

  • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Linda

    EDDIE YOU ARE A TRAITOR YOU SHOULD GET THE HECK OUT OF HERE GO TO THE MIDDLE EAST YOU PIECE OF HUMAN WASTE

    • http://naver sook young

      Eddie, are you going to answer the lady’s questions? Thank you.

      Sook Young
      Wife of the Samurai

  • eddie47d

    Linda; You are an American Jihadist with your dangerous talk. 19 hijackers attacked America and you want to go out and destroy the world. No one can change the world overnight and we have already made matters worse in the Middle East, not better. How many more innocent lives have to be lost before you have YOUR pound of flesh. al Qaeda is the enemy and they are always on the move.So we can play whack a mole all we want. If their schools keep teaching them to hate America they will continue to spawn new recruits. If these various governments over there can’t do what is right for their people then we need to make a quick exit. The angry citizen will always strike out at the foreigner and that makes the U.S. an easy target.

    • meteorlady

      I’m thinking that we didn’t make matter worse anywhere in the middle east – I think it was all pre-planned in the first place. The muslin religion was founded on fear – it was always join us or die. There was not black or white and sooner or later they were going to start showing themselves. They are taking over Europe and now the US is on the line. We let them stop traffic in the middle of the day in NYC so they can pray even though it’s illegal. They are having more children than any other ethic group in the world today. They are working diligently to make us all believers. They now have more power in this country than any other religion. They are allowed special prayer rooms in schools and offices around the country, while other religions are not.

      I agree though that we can’t stay there forever. A lot of the people over they believe we have helped them but hey, the press just wants to pick up on all the bad things we do. My cousin collects toys to pass out over there and they are trying to win the hearts of the people through acts like that. I’d say we are not winning because there is so much fear of retribution by the muslin extremists that they people want us to stay away from them or they will be targeted.

      All they have in their arsenal is fear fear fear. Join us or die and they do that all the time – kill people who stand up to them.

    • lcfrontenac

      More Liberal manufactured “reality”.

      The rampant anti-Americanism in the Middle East long precedes the current conflicts. Totalitarian government such as that in Arab nations maintains power by keeping its people poor, hungry, fearful, and uneducated, and giving them a “boogey-man” to blame their problems on. Generations of sand dwellers have been indoctrinated to believe that the West is the cause of all of their misery, while their own rulers live in the lap of luxury on their oil profits. Look at how the average Iraqi citizen lived while Saddam led his reign of terror from the opulance of his many palaces.

      The “19 hijackers” on whom you seem to place sole blame for the 9/11 atrocity were NOT independent operators, but just the spearhead of a long-developing widespread jihad against the US.

  • http://toast.net Louis

    when we were in south Vietnam we did far more out right inhuman ways of getting information from the Vietcong and the North Vietnam soldiers, when some officers did hang them from helicopters with a rope connected to their personal man parts. when they complain about the water boarding when Bush was in the White House, if he did not do anything about the terrorists we would be under some type of fear from them???

  • coal miner

    Good News:

    How General motors came back from the brink

    The largest share offering in US history begins today and marks the rebirth of the car-making giant

    By Stephen Foley

    Thursday, 18 November 2010

    Cars in production at the General Motors plant in Lansing, Michigan

    enlarge Sponsored Links
    Ads by Google

    Will GM Soar Or Flop?
    Is GM A Buy Or Sell? Discover TheBest/Worst Stocks To Own Today!
    http://www.InvestorPlace.com/GM

    General Motors, the giant car maker, races back on to the US stock market this morning, after the biggest share offering in American history, and investors were falling over themselves to get a piece of the company.

    Just a day after saying it would raise the price of its shares, GM yesterday decided also to increase the number of shares being sold, resulting in billions of dollars extra for its current owners, the US and Canadian governments and the unions representing thousands of retired workers. It is on course to raise $23.1bn, giving the company a market value around $50bn.

    Last night, as it set the price for ordinary shares at $33 apiece, the top of its increased range, analysts were already weighing in on the long-term prospects for the company, which since last year has called itself “New GM”. Its pit stop in bankruptcy allowed it to shed thousands of workers, billions of dollars in pension and healthcare liabilities, underperforming factories, unwanted dealerships and four of its eight brands, including Pontiac, Saturn and the notorious gas-guzzler Hummer.

    Some $6bn of the IPO proceeds will go to funding obligations to retired workers, helping to resolve a structural problem that had hobbled GM for a generation: it is supporting five times as many retirees as it has employees.

    “The old joke was the GM was the world’s largest [health management organisation], which just happened to also sell cars,” says David Whiston, a car industry analyst at Morningstar. “Healthcare costs in the US had just gotten out of control. The company has $5bn in hourly worker costs annually now, compared to $16bn in 2005… The company has posted well over $4bn in net income so far this year. This is a very, very different company.”

    After years where it lost around $1,000 on every car it made in North America, GM now turns a profit of around $3,000, and with car sales in the US recovering from the effects of the recession, analysts are forecasting its margins can expand. As importantly, it has had some sales successes, with popular models such as the Chevrolet Traverse mini-SUV and the Buick Lacrosse, a luxury sedan, and has generated some buzz around its forthcoming Chevy Volt, an electric car.

    Mr Whiston said he expected the shares to rise towards a fair value of $44. “Old GM” bonds which are still trading, and which will eventually convert into New GM shares, suggest that the stock could be worth in the high-$30s.

    Both the Bush and Obama administrations feared that the collapse of GM and its cross-town rival Chrysler would have effects far beyond the companies themselves, as suppliers folded and hundreds of thousands, or possibly millions, of jobs were put at risk. As a result, Wall Street bailout money was redirected to the car industry, and the process of remaking GM began in December 2008.

    The US taxpayer has held a 61 per cent stake in GM as a result of the restructuring. To break even on its investment, the Treasury must get an average price of $44 per share, but it decided that it would rather sell more shares now, at a price which risks an ultimate loss to taxpayers, instead of waiting. Its stake is being cut to about 33 per cent, against the earlier planned 43 per cent. GM has been eager to shake off the moniker “Government Motors”, while the Treasury is keen to extricate itself from major interventions in the private sector.

    GM sold 478 million common shares at $33 each, raising $15.77bn, as well as $4.35bn in preferred shares, also more than initially planned. Including an overallotment option, which will be settled over the next few days, GM looks set to raise $23.1bn – the biggest initial public offering ever.

    What it means for GM’s rivals

    The ease with which General Motors has found buyers for its initial public offering bodes well for rival Chrysler’s own planned return to the stock market, Sergio Marchionne, Chrysler chief executive says.

    Speaking in Los Angeles ahead of the city’s auto show, Mr Marchionne said Chrysler would not bring forward its IPO plans, pencilled in for the second half of 2011, but would study how GM shares perform. “It will give us the logistics of what this market is looking for, as far as pricing expectations,” he said. “This will give us a great, great precursor for the Chrysler IPO. I’m delighted, it couldn’t have gone better.”

    And the executive launched a full-throated defence of the auto bailouts, saying Chrysler had already added 12,000 jobs since bankruptcy and that had an even bigger effect on the economy. “I don’t care what multiplier you use, one-to-four, one-to-seven, including the pizza guy.

    “If you go far enough down the chain, I think the multiplier effect is huge. It just reinforces the fact that President Barack Obama did the right the right thing”

    Post as …
    Showing 1 comments
    Sort by Popular now Best rating Newest first Oldest first Subscribe by email Subscribe by RSS
    kj848 6 hours ago

    This is a company that I worked for for 38 years. GM had already taken steps to downsize and get leaner when the economy nosedived. It was reported in Dec.2008 that GM needed 14 billion dollars on hand just to operate. That’s how big it still was before the bankruptcy. This company used to have hundred’s of thousands of workers. To suggest that GM could have gone bankrupt and still operate by selling off pieces of this company is something that only an outsider would still suggest. Even an attempt to unload Saturn and the Hummer failed. An IPO like this one would never had been possible without the careful planning to every detail. The plant that I worked at built transmissions but had to close it’s doors. It once built bombers used during World War 2 but it’s time was up. It seems more practical to me to save the industry that we still have left and keep everybody paying taxes instead of drawing unemployment. The good paying jobs are drying up and it seems to me that it would be easier to hold on to them than trying to create new ones. It’s sad that more people are upset that GM may pay back the taxpayers and would rather see them fail. I would think it’s more favorable for the banks and auto companies to be successful and pay this money back if we are ever going to restore this economy. Are we still rooting for America? If we don’t come together than there may not be very much left to fight over. This is something that President Bush and President Obama will be praised for long after they are gone. Many would not have stuck their necks out to save the auto industry but would have let it disappear like the other industries that are no longer around. I think they hate government so much because they don’t have the fortitude and skills to govern.

  • Rick S

    What a — mess this is.
    If you are Mr. nice guy the other side won’t return the favour.
    Been there done that.
    If you don’t fight to win you won’t. I found out the hard way.
    These people have no respect for human life so why be nice to them?
    I’m sure there are a lot people out there that think waterboarding is being too nice to them.

    These are the same people that want to blow your guts all over the sky at 30 thousand feet. And they don’t even know you.
    They are the reason millions of your tax dollars are spent on security. They are the reason you no longer have any privacy or rights.

    Well if they met me they would be begging to try the waterboard.

    A p*ssed off Canadian.

    • Mike Austin

      I am with you neighbor!

  • http://naver sook young

    Sorry Robert, but I regret to tell you that your information tends to be to the pro choice movement and is invalid. Instead of debating with someone who knows little of the subject, outside of the political circle, I found some sources that refute what you are saying:

    1. David M. Furgusson, Univeristy of Otago Christchurch School of Medicine in New Zealand, 2006, concludede that those who had an abortion were subsequently more likely to have mental health problems, including depression, anxiety, suicidal behaviors and substance use disorders. The finding suggests that abortion in young women may be associated with increased risks of mental problems.

    2. Mika Gissler completed a study in Finland of women who committed suicide from having an abortion and ones that went through natural childbirth. Her studies show that thye suidide rate with a woman having an abortion were 7 times higher than those that had gone through childbirth. She states: “The increased risk of suicide after an induced abortion indicates common risk factors for both or harmful effects of induced abortion on mental health.

    3. Nancy Alder, 1990, a professor of medical psychology, conducted a study of women’s health before and after and abortion. Her findings were that 10% of all women who had an abortion have symptoms of depression or other psychological distresses after an abortion.

    4. Journal of Child Psychiatry and Psychology, a study was conducted by researchers that a study of women, age 25, who had an abortion, 42% of them had experienced major dipression over the next four years at some stage.

    Sorry Robert, but your words do not stand up to the facts I’ve presented. Please look them over and I’ll wait for your factually unsound answer. Thank you.

    Sook Young
    Wife of the Samurai

  • Mike Austin

    Remember that we waterboard our troops as part of training. This has taken place long before Bush. I would like them to try and put him on trial. I am no fan of GWB but I will stand with him on this. We should give amnesty international the finger and shout them down any time they show their ignorant faces in America.

Bottom
close[X]

Sign Up For Personal Liberty Digest™!

PL Badge

Welcome to PersonalLiberty.com,
America's #1 Source for Libertarian News!

To join our group of freedom-loving individuals and to get alerts as well as late-breaking conservative news from Personal Liberty Digest™...

Privacy PolicyYou can opt out at any time. We protect your information like a mother hen. We will not sell or rent your email address to anyone for any reason.