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Human Rights Activists Call For Impeachment Of Judge Jay Bybee For Allegedly Sanctioning Torture

February 12, 2010 by  

Human rights activists call for impeachment of Judge Jay Bybee for allegedly sanctioning torture More than a year after the Bush administration left office activists are still trying to unravel some of the mysteries surrounding the alleged use of torture during the interrogations of terrorism suspects.

In the latest installment, DisbarTortureLawyers.com has joined forces with other organizations to demand the impeachment of Jay Bybee, a federal judge and the former head of the U.S. Department of Justice’s Office of Legal Council. They claim that Bybee authored memos that sanctioned the use of torture and "offensive war."

The coalition has cited a recent Newsweek story that suggests the Department of Justice report on Bybee and his subordinates has been edited to remove the finding of misconduct that appeared in the report’s original version.

"If the Newsweek piece is true … then Congress should immediately launch a full scale investigation to determine if politics, political pressure or something worse entered into this decision," said DisbarTortureLawyers spokesperson and attorney Kevin Zeese.

He added that the group will also seek to work with foreign lawyers and judges to prosecute "torture advocates" for crimes against humanity.

"That torture has resulted in many deaths, not just of torture victims, but of our own soldiers who were killed by those who turned against America because our government tortured," Zeese concluded.
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  • http://victorbarney@embarqmail.com Victor L Barney

    It’s simply a group that totally demands that the Islam religion rules the world!

  • Gordon

    Had not heard of this Leftist bunch.

    Thank God for judges who realize that Jihadists will kill anyone they can reach who is not Muslim. Thats their mission, and anyone who thinks that enhanced interrogation is the reason Islamo Fascists kill American troops is either naive, or part of the loose knit, but very well organized anti American coalition, now infesting our very government.

    • Joe H.

      Gordon,
      yeah, but then they try to impeach him. what do you think the chances of getting another to stick his neck out will be?

  • Phil

    I’m aginst the torture of any humanbeing….torture is usually the tool of 3 world countrys…. Like republicans would like America to become…. I remember a time when all Americans despised torture…

    • jim

      Phil, Please elaborate on the misguided statement that a 3rd world nation is what Republicans want the U.S. to be.

      • Phil

        That’s an easy question to answer…. The past administration( Bush) nearly destroyed our economy spending trillions on a war in Iraq that wasn’t nessessary… Part of his reasoning ( part) was that Saddam tortured people without trial…at least President Obama is spending money on our country that will benifit Americans while Bush and republicans ignored Americas infrastructure… Our infrastructure has to be upgraded… If you’re going to try and argue that the state of this country is do to any of president Obamas policys the conversation is over… And I’ve seen not 1 change in the republicans policys that would change the course the republicans put this country on .. Nothing.. Maybe you can enlighten me on any republican policy change ?..anti tax and deregulation that put this country in economic disaster is all you have in the way of policy.. Of course you know the Bush tax cuts are still in effect till 2011… My point on America becoming 3rd world country true if we continue to neglect our infrastructure…republicans care so little about America that they actually had someone like Sarah Palin as a Vice presidential candidate…but the bottomline is simple… Republicans ignored out country and here we are now…. Think about this… President Obama would NEVER had been elected had REPUBLICANS not run this country so horribly…who do you blame?.. Blame yourselfs..

        • jim

          So the republicans Ignored The infrustructure and started wars because their goal is to turn the U.S. into a thiird world nation. Please point out where the infrustructure was ignored on a federal level(A portion of roads and bridges are state responsibility).When the jihadists declared war on us and attacked on 9-11-01 we shouldn’t shoot back? The Dems held congress in 07,08 and 09. I contribute alot that is wrong to them. Senator Obama contributed to that. The coversation isn’t over because I didn’t say Pres. O, You don’t have to slam your mind shut and go home. You still haven’t ppointed out how the Rep.’s are MALICIOSLY trying to turn the U.S. into a 3rd world nation.

          • Phil

            Jim… Infrastructure is paid for by tax dollars… Real basic Jim….

          • Joe H.

            Phil,
            i guess the fact that the debt ceiling being raised won’t have a thing to do with the downturn of this country? I guess sending 30 thousand MORE troops to the middle east won’t cost anything. now I guess the conversation is over so I won’t see you again, right?

          • Jana

            Joe, We can hope.

        • jim

          Fed, State, and local gov.s collect taxes and each has a resonsibily to support certain projects .Real basic. Now how does that make it that the Republicans are MALICIOUSLY trying to turn the U.S. into a third world nation?

        • Ken

          Human tortue? This ideology of a few misguided, unattached, activists of civility, have never been in the “Boots” of a soldier in the distress of heavy combat, while loosing close friends or even being wounded themselves ! For these ‘anti-torture’ activists to even voice an opinion is blasphemous ! Just whoes freedom, to even speak out in this vulgar manner, do they think is being protected and prolonged possibly as a result of some information gleaned by this pocess, so they might air their freedom of speach. Freedom is unknown to far to many and no longer cherished or appreciated! A time when “all” Americans despised torture ? I’ve been around many years and fought in the wars of my country, but I can not recall a time when torture was totally despised by all ! If one would bother to pick up a “real” history book and endeavor to comprehand even the smallest threats of torture and its majority of end results, they would be silent! To the exorbitant threat and preparation for torture, it seems to have been enough to gain any or some useful information. The average citizen has no idea of what true torture consists of, today or yesteryear. If you think you do, you are watching way to much TV and over looking the history of America and the world, contained in “true”, recorded ‘History Books”! Not these “re-released’ books of history that are being rewritten to perplex and perpetrate the truth the “progressive left” wish to propagate ! I find that the majority of people influenced by this radical progressive thinking are unwilling to even listen to the truth, let alone acknowledge it. For these people, I feel sorry and pray for.
          (PS)I can not recall or state one thing Obama has accomphished during his first 13 1/2 months in office, except, blame some one else for all his failures !

          • Joe H.

            Ken,
            Agreed on all points. the thing that really torques me is we finally get a judge with a pair and they want to impeach him. what a joke!! The dems need to grow some and be willing to stand up for their country like they stand up for these terrorists!!!

        • DDC

          Phill Right you keep on believing Obama. Just wait until all the Muslims get to America, and watch Obama do a 360. He is a bigger Muslim than Osama Bin Laden.

        • Meteorlady

          Here Phil – this is email I received, I did check some of it and it’s pretty much on the mark:

          Budgets do not come from the White House. They come from Congress. The one and only party that has controlled Congress since January 2007 is the Democratic Party. They controlled the budget process for FY 2008 and FY 2009, as well as FY 2010 and FY 2011.

          In that first year, they had to contend with George Bush, who made them compromise on spending when he somewhat belatedly got tough on spending increases.

          For FY 2009, though, Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid bypassed George Bush entirely, passing continuing resolutions to keep government running until Barack Obama could take office. At that time,they passed a massive omnibus spending bill to complete the FY 2009 budgets.

          And where was Barack Obama all this time? He was a member of that very Congress that passed all of these massive spending bills, and then he signed the omnibus bill as President to complete FY 2009.

          Let’s remember what the deficits looked like during that period:

          If the Democrats inherited any deficit, it was the FY 2007 deficit, the last of the Republican budgets. That deficit was the lowest in five years, and the fourth straight decline in deficit spending. After that, Democrats inCongress took control of spending, and that includes Barack Obama, who voted for the budgets. If Obama inherited anything, he inherited it from himself.

          In a nutshell,what Obama is saying is “I inherited a deficit that I voted for.
          Then I voted to expand that deficit four-fold since January 20, 2009.”

          So…what exactly did Obama “inherit”? And from whom?

        • DDC

          Phil, You ever been in the service? Have you ever had to pack 60-100 lbs. on your back over rough terrain? Have you ever had to kill a human being?? Have you ever been shot at, and try to see one more day? I am a Navy Seal. If you could see what training we are going through as a refresher course, I doubt you would make it..
          I am going back to Afghanistan in June. Obama said HE WAS GOING TO END THIS WAR. But he is sending 30,000 over there. My 2nd time there, 3 in Iraq. OBAMA IS A MUSLIM. WE ARE GOING TO BE KILLING MUSLIMS. Do you see something wrong with this picture?

          Why is it alright for enemies to torture the US, but you think it is wrong for the US to torture them? Do you see anything wrong with this picture? I do Obama does not want us to torture HIS BROTHERS, THE MUSLIM

        • http://google gary gerke

          You are a mis informed liberal progressive that still buys into the CHANGE that never happened. Please elaborate on all the infrastruture that is being done and please use varifiable internet information. I can’t take a liberals emotional out bursts as fact.

      • SiliconDoc

        It’s very clear that WHEREVER the democrat’s policies have been fully implemented we have a third world inner city filled with crime and destruction.
        Alternately, with republican policies we have nice communities that have responsible law abiding citizens that contribute to the nation and to themselves and their families and friends, enhancing the quality of life.
        Now the liberals are upset, since their corruption of power has allowed them to WASTE decades of infrastructure monies on their pet projects that reduce output and production and responsibility, and even now we see them in bed with the deepest pockets in the nation and around the world.
        The veil of the democrat’s doctrine has been lifted, and we see the actual results are terrible, and destructive. Their implementations have been filled with corruption and payola, and now nearly no one can trust government bodies – and even when one can, the results are in a downward spiral of debt and unmet obligations.
        They promised us social security, but since 1982 have RAIDED the surplus taxes collected from trust fund, every single penny of it, to the tune of 4 trillion dollars (many trillions more if it has been properly invested since 1982).
        Now in the downturn, social security needs money to pay it’s daily obligations, as the FICA tax from wages is not sufficient with high unemployment. Well, there IS NO MONEY in the trust fund, it was STOLEN by the very government the left tells us must run a giant health care fund.
        Since the left has shown, even as they have controlled Congress for 40 years, they cannot honestly and honorably be trusted with the people’s money, I much prefer Bush’ plainly stated solution:
        Let the people control their own money, every dollar that government collects is a dollar they will spend. We have been hearing how the government workers pension funds have been raided as well- although they haven’t drained that bone dry, it’s up on the theft block.
        So what we have is clear evidence that the government is too corrupt to be trusted, has wasted our tax dollars, and has not invested properly in infrastructure (take Katrina levies as an example – plenty of money for decades, but the LIBERALS had to have it go for swamps and environmental projects, so the city drowned).
        Now, for a lefty loon to blame the potus when 40 years of democratically controlled congress and DEMOCRAT LEFTIST departments of the government have BLOWN IT, is plainly dishonest and ridiculous.
        When Bush vetoed the expensive highway bill, the Congress overrode him, and delivered what they wanted, anyway.
        Liberals, leftists, people like this person “Phil” never even have a clue on the basic workings of our government, so it’s no wonder they promote it, more and more, so long as they can babble that their also lunatic counterpart has the pursestrings (and will steal, waste, and fraudulently administer it’s contents, to the detriment of the USA).

    • http://mooresmorgue@hotmail.com John Moore

      If that is what you belive, you are a nut! I don’t see any of these detained terrorest being deformed, cut, or any broken bones. If splashing a little water in someones face to find out where the next attack will come, then so be it. What about the rights of those they killed or will kill. I guess in your eyes,that’s ok as long as the ends justify means. You are as un-American as those in the ACLU (american criminal libertys union), oh, maybe your their leader.

      • Jana

        John Monroe, In fact the terrorists are taught to cry out “I have been tortured” They actually teach them to say this to get the poor misguided liberals to feel sorry for them. What these libs forget is that these “terrorists” are the ultimate torture machines. They have been taught from birth to hate the United States, and they are teaching their own children how to become suicide bombers and murderers. Of course that doesn’t matter to the bleeding heart liberals.

    • Meteorlady

      Torture is when someone has a serious hurt inflicted on them. Water boarding is a psychological thing – they put a towel over your head while you are reclined on a board and the literally pour a small amount of water on you face. When the water starts going down you nose (we’ve all experienced that) there is a overpowering urge to breath. That all happens within 15 seconds from the start of the water pouring. Is there a mark on the person? NO. Is there anything actually hurting or bleeding on the person? NO.

      I find it much more difficult to accept people getting their heads sawed off on the internet so if a little water can save some lives I’m all for it.

      • eyeswideopen

        Meteorlady, if it is so harmless, why haven’t any of you been volunterring to be waterboarded yourselves? A Conservative DJ did that very thing, trying to prove that it was no big deal, except he freaked, even though he knew he wouldn’t be hurt. If it is such a little thing, why do we try and let our own soldiers know how it would feel if they should be waterboarded? Are you saying we are preparing them for something so insignificant, that our generals just want waste time and money on that training exercise? Silly. It is torture and has been used for generations, you can try to down play it, but facts are facts, it is torture. You should be ashamed that this country sunk to a new low in our history and used torture. Would you like your son or daughter to be waterboarded 283 times? Or would one or two be ok?

        • Joe H.

          eyes,
          No I wouldn’t like my kid to be waterboarded, but I would prefere that a thousand times over to being be-headed!!!!!

          • Joe H.

            ??????????

          • cr747

            I have done told all of you what went on in Vietnam.. Water boarding is nothing compared to what they did to our service men over there.. It was horrible..

        • Michael J.

          Ewo,
          I don’t see any big deal about waterboarding. My first experience with it was when I was 12. There’s no real danger you know. I’ve heard of people getting knocked out but that’s because they weren’t hanging on.
          They say that being a good swimmer is helpful to pull it off without getting hurt. I myself have at times been in the middle of 9′s to 12′s, no problem. The only thing that scares me is the threat of sharks.

        • Robin from Indiana

          Eyes…
          My children would not be Muslim terrorists. Do you think they use this interrogation technique on just anyone? No… This is saved for the worst of the worse! Those who have killed and will kill more Americans. I’ll bet Nick Berg’s family would have rather had him water boarded on TV instead of beheaded on TV. Oh…and what was his crime? As far as I know he wasn’t guilty of anything to deserve having his head cut off. War is not pretty, nor is it exciting. War is hell is not just a little made up phrase. It is HELL. Muslims want to rule the world. They are not content where they are. Hopefully you and I will never experience any thing that resembles war here in the United States. This is why we go to other countries to try and contain the ‘bad guys’ so that the fighting is not done on American soil.

        • http://google gary gerke

          Brain shut down!!!!!

    • flash

      Phil, looks like you are one of those that can’t see the forest for the trees. Maybe if you would look from side to side occasionally instead of always looking “left” you might see things you haven’t noticed before. What you call torture I call interrogation. Torture is what the jihadists do up until the time that they lop off your head! These captive jihadist had better living conditions than most of the population of the world. They are trained and educated, that if captured, to make claims of torture and mistreatment and to use our own systems (and bleeding heart liberals) against us.

  • Del Abbey

    Short of thumbscrews or bamboo slivers under the fingernails I think that the treatment of these jihadists is far better than they deserve. Are you blind and deaf do you know what tortures they themselves use on other people in disagreement with their barbaric culture. Even their own citizens. What muslims do to muslims is moot, who cares, they have been doing the same thing to each other for a thousand years or more. I think our safety as a free people should allow a great deal of latitude in questioning these animals. They are out to kill everyone who does not follow their bloodthirsty religion, take over the free world; why should we limit ourselves to namby pamby liberal whiners attitudes and practices. Go cry in your warm milk liberal cretins.

    • Claire

      Del Abbey–You know, I am inclined to agree with you.

  • jim

    Any way to get reliable information that will save the lives of inocent victims of a terrorist attack is OK by me.If we are talking about 2 sovern nations at war, with uniformed soldiers, not terrorists who represent an organization and not fighting for their country, I’m all for enforcing the Geneva Convention. Terrorists are open game.

    • Phil

      That’s the point… Torture people and they will say anything … Of course some of you will ignore the military experts that will tell you torture doesn’t work…. The Republicans last presidential candidate might know a little about torture.. And he cameout aginst torture.. I wouldn’t want our troops waterboarded nor would I want them put on trial without rights…our Constitution wasn’t just written for Americans, it’s was written as an example as to how ALL humanbeings should be treated and if a accused terrorist is arrested for breaking our laws he or she is subject to our laws and something that goes with having a great constitution is requiring anyone to be punished under our law and constitution….I was raised to believe our country was special and above other countrys that torture and abuse human rights… Some of us are still better than those that think torture is a useful tool….if you believe the constitution was only to protect Americans than you’ve missed it’s point…

      • jim

        Phil, If I see a terrorist about to detonate a suicide vest while he is standing next to me my last thought won’t be,thank heavens at least the guy that could have given information about this attack so authorities could have prevented this wasn’t water boarded. I can now die for those principles.

      • Doug

        It was Phil until people like you with your PC agenda started teaching our kids in school and getting gov’t jobs and so on! Every war we been in our troops are tortured grow up. Special ops Delta force they are all trained to not spill the beans when tortured why do you think that is Phil Donuhe?

        • DDC

          Phil, You are a complete idiot. I guess our troops were not tortured in Vietnam. They would cut their testicles off and stick them in their mouths. If you don’t believe that ask cr747, He saw some of it going on. Then ask him what he did.
          Water boarding is minor to what they do to our soldiers.

          • Claire

            DDC–you are absolutely correct. In Viet Nam, our troops were tortured. And this makes me positively sick. I have no use for the enemy. We must do whatever we have to do to protect our soldiers and military. I repeat, an eye for an eye.

          • Joe H.

            DDC,
            I can tell you it’s true. Ask some vets what razor blades were used for in brothels. ask about steel rods being used to break almost every bone in their bodies. Ask about cong tying up a village head to a tree and watch as they cut his unborn daughter out of his wifes abdomen! His crime? they found some candy wrappers in his hut that the GIs had handed out on their way through the ville. Ask what the cong did to prisoners with wooden rods that had been sliced all over so that pieces stuck out all over them. bastards were real inventive!!!!

        • Jana

          Doug,
          The ones who do the water boarding had to undergo this very technique themselves. Plus these people who say “They would say anything while being tortured”. Do not know what they are talking about. The people asking the questions know a lot about what they are asking and can very quickly verify what they are answering. We do have experts at questioning these terrorists.

          It is people like Phil that wants to turn our country into a third world country.

      • SiliconDoc

        Oh dear GAWD how ignorant and misguided can thinking be ?
        We don’t care how many HUNDREDS of times the interrogated and tortured terrorist “tells us what we want to hear” or “says anything”.
        What we ARE INTERESTED IN, is the secret information the terrorists have THAT WE DO NOT !
        So when a tortured, beaten, half drowned religious fanatic ( you know the kind of person you HATE if they’re a Christian) spews forth NEW INFORMATION that our intelligence agencies do not have, torture has then WORKED.
        Watch a few movies once in a while about cracking the liberal dope addict or demo criminal. Heck, just turn toward your significant other and watch her(or his in case you’re gay) over and over “torture” you with those repeated statements – and eventually even you, the crazed lefty, breaks down, gives in, and yields up the result. Of course you tried lying, covering up, misdirecting, fibbing, making up stories, and on and on, but then you caved in, and your paramour got not only what they wanted, but the answer that you had covered up for so long.
        Works the same with terrorists, so quit being such a foolish moron and face even the realities of your own personal life.

    • Ken

      Jim; I hope your not angery with me. I am all for any means to glean information from an enemy of the US to better serve its people. I think some of you misunderstand. The so called torture at gitmo was just a sleigh ride! This is sometime a larger threat of what may
      be about to become you (the torturee)and thus would maybe get needed
      info without pulling out finger nails or cutting off parts of the body. This is all I see was going on at gitmo. But no ! Some thought we were useing thumb screws, pulling out nails and drowning poor innocent folks ! BULL ! Get a life people. Information gleaned by what ever means to save just one American life, is worth it ! As for the US Constitution applying not just to Americans,
      someone has been eating to much “progressive soup”! The Constitution is to protect the people from the government. Why do you think the progressive left are trying to sweep in under the rug ???

      • jim

        Hi Ken, Why would I be angry?

    • Claire

      jim– “Open game” is the way it should be.

  • http://yahoo.com bargal

    Anyone believes that these jihadists aswholes are gentle with our troops while in their custody is smoking skunk weed. If the women in our government would go through boot camp of any of our armed forces (and the less than manly men too) and especially the U.S. Marine Corps (Pronounced Core not Corpse)they would have a better understanding of what torture is. It damn well isn’t ironing 6 shirts or having to have dinner on the table when the man of the house gets home or delivering their little brats to the soccer game or little league. Screw these fools that are out to kill each and every one of us and especially the children.

    Panties on their heads and loud music. Hell there is loud music at every stop light and in every home with teen agers and the grown ups that go out partying go with out sleep and call it fun. Get real.

    We need information and I agree with DEL ABBY, short of thumb screws and bamboo shoots the hell with them. It’s a hell of a lot more humane then slowly sawing a mans head off and watching him squirm through the pain until he takes his final breath

  • Robert

    So my question is. What about the Japanese, VietCong, North Koreans, Germans…..? Why aren’t they speaking out about what these groups did in the past? If you want to speak out about what’s happening today, at least condemn the actions of past atrocities.

    • Robin from Indiana

      Robert…
      Why bring up the Germans, Chinese, Japanese, etc.? Really, what has that got to do with terrorists? It’s a different ball game. It always seems like when liberals post they have to refer to something other than what the article is about; they can’t seem to stay on task.

  • Phil

    Jim… I don’t recall posting that when were attacked we shouldn’t shoot back and defend ourselfs…. Are you telling me Iraq was responsible for 9/11 ?…i see your attempt to try and change the subject .. Not many people still believe Iraq attacked us on 9/11…wheather it’s state or federal taxes , it’s taxes that are supposed to pay for i frastructure…. And avoiding taxes is always republican policys…..why don’t you google ( who pays for bridges , highways, electrical grid. Public transportation…. By the way… 1 in 4 bridges is in need of repaid… The money flatout wasted on Iraq could have gone a longway in fixing those…. Or fixing our electrical grid….it’s the goverments responsibility to attend to infrastructure wheather it’s on the state level or federal legal… I’m still waiting for you to tell me 1 policy change the republicans have that’s diffrent than the policy of the 8 yrs on Bush… Just calling Obama a socialist isn’t policy change…it’s also amazing that you republicans always hate goverment but when in power you have huge spending and large goverment ( Reagan,Bush)… Remember Reaganhad us paying 500 bucks for toilet seats.. Why wasn’t it socialism to spend all the money Bush wasted on Iraq?… I will admitt , it’s socialism to spend money on America and I’m fine with that…. I’d just like to know what you republican have changed in the way of policy that won’t drive us back into the ditch again.

    • jim

      You are blameing money spent on wars as being taken away from other projects, then you say if we are attacked we should fight back. Should we protect ourselves or surrender and build a bridge? The debate about whether or not we should have gone into Iraq id over half a decade old. The Dem.’s& Rep.’s in congress voetd to go in the Rep.’s don’t soley own that.With tax cuts a lower percentage was taken in, but more jobs were created and more investments made so more income to be taxed was earned so more revinue came in. You can’t tax and spend your way out of a resesion and you don’t do it by expanding goverment. Roads are funded by fuel taxes so that ifrustructure money wasn’t diverted to fund the war. the electrical infrusructure is built by the private or government electric company through your electric bill. So war money didn’t deprive our electrical grid as much as government regulations on utility companies. Now tell me, how are the Republicans MALICIOSLY trying to turn the U.S. into a 3rd world country.

      • SiliconDoc

        I’ve seen all the videos with democrats screaming Saddam has WMD and we need to depose him before he launches the nukes he is certainly trying to make. From Clinton to Kerry to Pelosi, we have the internet and youtube has been very informative with c-span clips and names and dates and faces and rolling video with audio straight out of Congress – so THAT jig is up for the lying democrats, not to mention their fool Kerry’s I voted for it before it voted against it (sorry NO TAKEBACKS after the war has started john kerry you doofus!)
        I’d also like to mention that Harry S Truman mr nuke them twice was a DEMOCRAT – and the war that libtards have never gotten over – Veitnam – was THEIR BABY, WITH DEMOCRATS STARTING AND RUNNING IT – FROM PRESIDENTS TO A DEMOCRAT CONGRESS !
        Only when we had a REPUBLICAN president did it end.
        Slick Willie (DEMOCRAT) had his BALKANS WAR, and his HAITI WAR with 20,000 marines, and his BLACKHAWK DOWN war.
        How these idiot liberals claim republicans are the party of war – besides rewriting the last 100 years of history is beyond me.
        THE US CONGRESS has been controlled by DEMOCRATS in the lead up and during the wars – during the start of them, that’s whom is irresponsible, not republicans.
        Bush 41 pulled out of total war with Iraq, but slick willie KEPT THE BOMBING RUNS and the no-fly zone planes with a democratic run and republican run congress.
        This recent crap about which party is the party of war rests upon a lot of lying, and a lot of liberal talking points (lies).
        What we do see now, however, with this recent traitorous breed of far left lunatic democrats, is, it appears, a disturbing type of KINDRED with the enemy, and utter DENIAL concerning their existence, in between cries of “their ever increasing numeration” and recruitment.
        In other words, we have MASSIVELY contradictory LIES coming from the democrats, all designed to support their rhetoric and fantasies, so they can continue their stupid, putrid, detrimental diatribes, that weaken the USA, confuse it’s citizenry, embolden the enemy, endanger the public, and take away our God given rights (like TSA one size fits all – no profiling stupidity).
        It’s a shame the lunatic left has so much power that our government is mainstreaming INSANE POLICIES.

        • Jana

          Silicon Doc, a lot of these socialists are cowards. A hero dies once, a coward dies a thousand times, by being so afraid.

    • Joe H.

      Phil,
      the 500.00 toilet seats and 150.00 hammers went on long before Reagan!!! His were just the people that found it! That came about due to most favored vendor bidding lists. If you weren’t on it you didn’t bid!!! If you are going to blame at least get it right!!!

      • jim

        Joe, You need a $150 hammer, you can’t drive a $20 dollar nail with anything less.

        • jim

          I’m sure there is a joke in here about taxpayers, paying for a 14 trillion $ screw somewhere.

    • Meteorlady

      So Phil – I have a great idea. All those people that are getting my money for doing nothing and are able to work should go fix the infrastructure. After all we gave them public housing and paid millions upon millions of dollars for that only to have it turn into a ghetto. We have spent millions upon millions replacing public housing units only to have immigrants and illegals more into them.

      The states are mostly responsible for roads, bridges and other infrastructure unless it’s a federal highway.For that most states tax our gasoline – but that goes into the general fund and gets spent on such nice things as $100,000 toilets in downtown Seattle so the bums and drunks won’t piss in the streets. Those toilets then turn into drug dealing places so they have to shut them down and sell them for $15,000. Seems our government is more interested in helping those who are able to help themselves but don’t want to. Why not start along that road instead of wailing away.

    • Joe H.

      Phil,
      what about the cuts your hero slick willie Clintoon did to the defense bills and what happened at Walter Reid and vets hospitals all over the U.S.? why don’t you address that? What about the fact that those cuts put the services below maintenance levels? Part of the reason that the electrical grid is so messed up is the tree huggers are so dam stupid as to put turtles and lizards ahead of the people on this planet!!!

  • Phil

    Doug… Is that an attempt to have a constructive conversation….?..why is it that you seem to feel the need to resort to Acting like the kids in the back of the class that threw spitwads in highschool when the rest of us were trying to get an education… Im just trying to converse here…if you don’t like what I’m saying then don’t read my post…. Real simple..

    • Doug

      Phil you ever fought in a war? Have you been trained to withstand tourture? I highly doubt Phil you were to busy being brained washed by the PC liberal school system!

  • Phil

    Jim, I’m still waiting to hear ” what Republicans will do diffrent ” if you happen to get the whitehouse back in 2012… And just because I’d like to know… Who would you like to run for president on the republican ticket….. Mitt Romney seems to to be the best candidate but for some reason he doesn’t poll that high…as a liberal democrat I’d like to see the republicans run Palin….as far as Obama goes I’m miffed at him too.. But it’s because he’s even attempting to work with republicans, it’s clear to me the republican agenda is only to block the president at any cost to America….maybe if the republicans had run this country correctly Obama wouldnt had been elected…

    • Jana

      Doug, In other words NO, Phil has never put his life on the line for our country, just his big mouth. He is probably too scared to do so.

  • Phil

    Ken….President Obama kept our economy from going complely under and going into a depression….and in your post , are you saying I shouldn’t have the right to be aginst torture?… really.. And you support the constitution?… Amazing…why don’t you adress why Senator McCains opposes torture… And by the way… The vast majority of military experts oppose torture as well as most civilized countrys and free countrys…

  • jim

    You type faster than me scroll up. As far as Republicans trying to block everything when you see what the Dems are trying to do is WRONG it’s OK to block it. Tom Daschel tought the reps how to do that well from when he was doing it.

    • jim

      Phil, Got to go back to work, I’m not avoiding you, later.

  • Phil

    Jim… Jobs were created under Bushs presidency?… More tax money came in under Bushs presidency??… Wow,, so your saying Bush left Obama a good economy and the economy wasn’t losing 700,000 jobs a month.. I don’t know how to respond to such a misinformed post…..Jim… Iraq was Invaded over 2 years after 9/11… So it’s not been a decade… And, again… I didn’t say we shouldn’t defend ourselves….. I said Iraq was a mistake , they didn’t attack us….the false intelligence came from the Bush administration… Afghanistan was where Al Qaida was… Not Iraq, Al Qaida never showed up in Iraq till after we invaded…theirs nothing in your post that’s correct….and yes , I’m saying money spent on our infrastructure would have been better spent then the waste iraqs been…if you’ve followed the news out of England this week then it’s clear that Bush cooked the evidence aginst Iraq to fit his agenda…Ken… Your post was just flatout delusional….torture is for the uncivilized…. Why don’t you watch the movie “purple heart”… It’s a true story of U.S bomber pilots caught and tortured by Japan during Ww2… That pretty much will tell you what America and our allies thought about torture… Also, you need to study the constitution..

    • Ken

      Jim; you’ve got your thinking cap on backwards. Your the one that needs to “get with the constitution. Your not watching TV with Phil, are you ? Been there !!!!!!!!!!!!1

      • Ken

        Jim; SORRY > I ment this post above for Phil.

    • Joe H.

      Phil,
      I would like to see an answer to Jims question as well. Have you served your country??

      • Roland Tibbs

        I have(words removed)

        • Claire

          God help me, I am inclined to agree with you. The older I get, I guess I am getting meaner.

          • Claire

            Sorry, somehow I ended up on the wrong reply????

          • Jana

            Claire, I have done that before too. LOL.

          • Claire

            Jana–When I found my reply, I thought “What the?” I read the posts above and wondered who in the heck I was agreeing with!! LOL

          • Joe H.

            Claire,
            Who were you posting to about what?

          • Claire

            JoeH—I was agreeing with someone about using torture but somehow I ended up in the middle of nowhere.

      • eyeswideopen

        Who cares if he served his country or not? Most of those on these posts haven’t served have they JeffH, DaveH,? Does that mean you can’t have rational thoughts and free speech if you haven’t served? You will have to get rid of Palin, and all those non-serving Congressmen. Bring back the draft, let’s have everybody have a stake in torture.

    • cr747

      Phil, You have been asked the question…DID YOU serve your country?? No guys he didn’t,if he had he shouldn’t be ashamed to answer.
      Phil, I served 22 years, most of it in Vietnam. I was a fighter pilot. If you think water boarding is bad, you ought to have seen some of the prisoners that I flew cover for while they were being freed by ground soldiers, Rangers, Seals, Berets and a lot of others out of $__t holes waist deep, their testicles cut off and stuck in their mouths, bamboo stakes driven through their bodies, bodies covered with feces, Don’t even talk to me about torture BUB.
      If you haven’t served you have no right to judge. So Draft Dodger, Keep Your Mouth Shut until you serve…
      I have landed back at base with twigs off of trees that I flew so low over to protect our brave soldiers.. Would do it again, am still qualified to fly a fighter plane. As a mater of fact I just landed my 747 in Hawaii, my home. Have been in Texas all week in court taking care of some of our veterans. You can bet one thing we won!! I don’t take no for an answer. No is not in my vocabulary when it comes to helping our Vets.,or even a soldier..In 22 years I saw a lot,and a lot of it I wasn’t supposed to see. Yes my plane got hit quite a few times, but there was another one waiting, and it didn’t take me long to get airborne again. I had a lot of check marks in the planes I flew during a dog fight. The Vietnamese flew mostly mig-17′s some of them flew vf-21s. In a F105 Thunderchief bomber, some called them thuds. 51000 pounds take off weight, lift off being 235 knots, also equipped with 20MM cannons. Most dog fighting was done with a F-4 Phantom II McDonald Douglas, they where 2 seaters. One hell of a ride, side ways, rolls, straight down, or straight up.
      So answer these men, if you served, be proud of it.. If you didn’t there’s no disgrace, you can still back our soldiers:::PRAY for them daily. That can be your way of serving. GOD BLESS YOU & GOD BLESS AMERICA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      • Meteorlady

        cr – you are awesome. Will you run for President? We need you.

        • coal miner

          Meteorlady,

          Haven’t we have been humilated enough?We had that moron Bush.That is all we need, I got a brilliant idea,that every rightwing nutcase will endorse.Why don’t we elect CR747 and Sarah Palin for president and vice president.I can see it now.You got nutty Cr747 and the bimbo from Alaska,Sarah Cluts Palin.Dream team or a nightmare. Please respond

          • Jana

            Coal miner, you have been eating too many sour grapes.

          • http://Don'thaveone Sally

            I think that is an excellant idea – how about it CR, you for pres and sarah for VP. Since you have and fly a 747 and live in Hawaii, you must have made your money somewhere and I seriously doubt it was from anything to do with politicians and/or attorneys. Just let us know when you start campaigning that it is you Cr747 as we don’t know your real name to cheer and support.

          • Joe H.

            Jana,
            No coalscabber SAYS he tried to join the Marines and they wouldn’t have him. Didn’t try the Army, Airforce, or Navy, but says he wanted to make a career of it!!!! Yet he demeans a vet of 22 years on here!!! What a load of pure crap!!!! Cares more about his union than he does that career in the Marines!!!

          • Joe H.

            Sally,
            Hate to disillusion you, but cr747 is a lawyer. One of the few good ones!!!

      • Jana

        cr747, You are a good man and a Great American. Thank you for your service, then and still even now.

      • Claire

        cr747—God love you!!!

      • eyeswideopen

        cr747, you call him a draft dodger and then tell him it’s ok to admit that he didn’t serve? Hate to tell you, but all of those that didn’t serve weren’t draft dodgers. Some couldn’t serve due to physical limitations, some due to being the sole surviving son, some due to being a true Christian and couldn’t make themselves kill another. That’s what is so hypocritical about you right wingers, you all make assumptions about someone and then crucify them based on the assumptions you have made.The Geneva Convention was to insure that all soldiers were treated fairly and not tortured. The world recognized that human decency must be adhered too, by all. When you are a soldier you represent all of America, not just your little world, your politics and personal beliefs don’t mean snot, you obey your commander and honor the treatries that this country signed. So until the Congress repeals the Geneva Treaty (not getting the legal dept to write memo saying torture is ok) but until they revoke our participation in that treaty, then we should not torture anyone. As an ex-soldier you should be supporting our Constitution and the Treaties that we signed.

        • Joe H.

          eyes,
          Hate to call you on a mistake but sole survivor didn’t prevent from serving it prevented you from being MADE to serve! I was in Vietnam with a sole surviving son that had a brother killed in RVN.

        • cr747

          eyeswideopen, did you read the whole post?? How well I know there are some that can’t serve. I said they still can serve by PRAYING for our soldiers. There’s no disgrace for the ones that can not serve. I know there are some that tried, but could not. BUT THERE IS A DIFFERENCE IN THOSE THAT WHERE PHYSICALLY DISABLED, AND THOSE THAT WHERE DRAFT DODGERS.

          We all can pray for our soldiers that are laying their life’s on the line to keep our country safe.. They need our prayers, they need our support. You have no idea what the soldiers are facing or going through. So please pray for them.. God Bless The Ones That Pray For Them.. MAY GOD BLESS AMERICA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

        • cr747

          eyeswideopen, and coal miner,, as I have said in other post,, you can call me anything,, any name you want,, it does not bother me at all. I am a big Boy,, I can deal with name calling.. So go ahead take your best shot.. But that does not keep me from praying for you,, and all of are people in THE UNITED STATES!!!!!!!!!!!

          All you are doing is only showing your ignorance,, and your ability to show how much you disrespect our men and women in uniform fighting to protect you,, me,, and all others.. God Bless You, and God Bless America!!!!!!!!!!!!

          • Joe H.

            cr747,
            Right on brother!!! We need more true Americans like we had in WW2 that made sacrifices for the effort! I have sent many packages to our troops and sent many e-card prayers to them as well. God bless them all!!!

          • cr747

            JoeH,, Claire,, Sally,, Meteorlady,, Jana,, Jim,, Ken,,::: Thanks you guys,,, and for all the rest that can go to bed in your bed tonight,, you have a comfortable place to rest.. When you lay your head down on that fluffy pillow,, please think of our soldiers,, Men and Women,, and pray for them,, thank God that you are safe because of them..
            May GOD Bless All Of You,, and God Bless America!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

        • jim

          Hi Eyes, The Geneva Convention is for UNIFORMED soldiers fighting for their SOVERN nation. Terrorists belong to no country, but an organization. They wage war on everybody, man woman and child, not another army on a battlefield. As far as suporting our Constitution it was writen way before the Geneva Convention so there is no mention of it in there.

      • Robin from Indiana

        cr747…
        Thank you for your service. Your post was an eye opening experience to read. My father was a WW11 veteran. My brother in law was in Nam. My father in law was in Korea. My son was in Kosovo. My nephews were in Iraq (one just returned) and Afghanistan. I have several other cousins that served. I was a member of the Air National Guard. I think it should be a prerequisite to be president that you serve at least one tour of duty with a branch of the Armed Services. Thank you again. Your story is worth reading again and again.

    • Meteorlady

      Did not almost all the Democrats vote for the war? What intelligence did they have?

      As for torture please go to this link and see water boarding in action – it’s a joke to call it torture.

      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/20/playboy-journo-bets-he-ca_n_189280.html

    • Meteorlady

      Gonna give you this one more time:

      Budgets do not come from the White House. They come from Congress. The one and only party that has controlled Congress since January 2007 is the Democratic Party. They controlled the budget process for FY 2008 and FY 2009, as well as FY 2010 and FY 2011.

      In that first year, they had to contend with George Bush, who made them compromise on spending when he somewhat belatedly got tough on spending increases.

      For FY 2009, though, Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid bypassed George Bush entirely, passing continuing resolutions to keep government running until Barack Obama could take office. At that time,they passed a massive omnibus spending bill to complete the FY 2009 budgets.

      And where was Barack Obama all this time? He was a member of that very Congress that passed all of these massive spending bills, and then he signed the omnibus bill as President to complete FY 2009.

      Let’s remember what the deficits looked like during that period:

      If the Democrats inherited any deficit, it was the FY 2007 deficit, the last of the Republican budgets. That deficit was the lowest in five years, and the fourth straight decline in deficit spending. After that, Democrats inCongress took control of spending, and that includes Barack Obama, who voted for the budgets. If Obama inherited anything, he inherited it from himself.

      In a nutshell,what Obama is saying is “I inherited a deficit that I voted for.
      Then I voted to expand that deficit four-fold since January 20, 2009.”

      So…what exactly did Obama “inherit”? And from whom?

  • Ken

    Phil: Please explain just how Obama saved the economy! Do not tell
    me it was stimulus packages ! There are 2/3s of that money still setting in someones coffer ! No! I am not saying you don’t have the right to protest torture. I said you should thank the people that have given some or all for freedom, so you can sit back, drink your koolaid and watch MSNBC! Any ounce of patriotic blood rushing through your veins should make you think twice about jumping on your soapbox of misinformation! Where did you get the idea that the “MAJORITY” of militaty leaders oppose torture ? There are “limits” and I don’t
    believe we, the US, overstep those bounds. It is true, a tortured person will say anything to save his life. This is why so much misinformation got to leaders of our enimies when our men were tortured beyond belief. McCain is not opposed to all forms of so called tortured ! Torture has been used, as a word, to encompass way to much of a broad area of definition. Loud music, water up your nose, no or little sleep and barking dogs ? If this bothers you, then you haven’t raised any teenaged kids ! “Hanoi Jane” was the “Mother” of human activists, except, she was on the wrong side. She was responsible for more beatings and deaths in Viet Nam than uncle ‘Ho”! Don’t even talk to me about pacification ! There is no such thing in war, and this is war ! Because of the left and the progressives for sure, Americas freedom and life style is just about over. That swishing sound you hear, is the progressives (present administration) sucking the lifes blood out of America ! Get yourself a good old history book and if you can comprehand what it’s all about, maybe you’ll learn something. It is not a question of if America fails, but “WHEN”. End of discussion.I will not argue with a misinformed, misguided uneducated group of progressives ! Just remember, when you realize the truth, where you heard it !

  • Phil

    Jim…Republicans have even said No to ideas they introduced themselves in an attempt to block anything President Trys to do…they just want him to fail… How about answering my questions too… Like what would republicans do diffrent if they got the Whitehouse back… Surely you don’t think they should keep the exact same policys that got our country here …I haven’t heard 1 new thing…. Just.. We want Obama to fail… That’s republican policy in a nutshell along with the Bush tax cuts for the top 2% and deregulation… Samethings that got us here….. Also, who do you want to be your party leader… As bad as everything is right now the polls out this morning still have President Obama beating any republican candidate…how is that?… Also as horrible and deserved as democrats polls are the republican polls are worse….I’m angry with my democrats for letting republicans obstruct…i’m tired of Democrats even caring what republicans think

    • Doug

      Hey Phil Donohue how much of the tax burden do the top 2% pay compared to the rest??? Let me guess you are a public school teacher a govt. employee? Which one or is really you Phil Donohue?

  • Phil

    Ken….. Were we losing 100,s of thousands of jobs a month when Bush left office..did you oppose the bailouts when Bush was on office?…John McCain was invited to the same meetings in Washington that Obama sat in on…..sp tell me what he would have done diffrent to stimulate the economy?… Last month was the lowest unemployment rate in 5 years…. Our GDP has finally started moving in a positive direction….. Consumer spending is now showing signs of life….are you just incapable of telling me what Republicans would do diffrent or you Just don’t care or want to?.. Do you understand that without Banks our economy can’t work?… So… Were the bailouts nessessary or not?… You can deny all you want that these bailouts haven’t helped.. And I’m assuming you will… But you just can’t tell me what republicans would have done diffrent …

    • Joe H.

      Phil,
      that lower unemployment rate was only due to the people that have exhausted their benefits and aren’t on the lists yet. What about them or like Obumma figures do they not matter anymore? The unemployment figure ought to go by the number of people employed full time not by how many file for benefits!! But then it would make Obummer look bad, wouldn’t it?

    • eyeswideopen

      Phil, they don’t have any solutions to the problems, hello they can’t even admit that they caused any problems. It’s ok for them to pass a Medicare bill to the tune of 800 billion with no funding and enlarge a socialist program, but because their membership likes Medicare, then it’s ok. You won’t be able to get them to give any answers except, cut taxes and reduce spending. Which they don’t know how to do, as witnessed by the spending the repubs did during 12 years that they had control of both houses of Congress from 1995 to 2007. They really want this country to fail, as they think they would be able to regain power. Anarchy is a word they really don’t understand.

      • Joe H.

        eyes,
        That 800 billion are a drop in the bucket compared to the trillions that Obummer has BORROWED!!!!!

  • Phil

    Jim… Continuing the same policys that got us here…. You need to own up to that…I’m talking about your party doing the samethings that got us here….I don’t know how to make it more clear…and had McCain and Palin been elected this country would probley be in a depression right now…what don’t you understand about( this countrys economy was near collapse) when Obama took office…. And do you admitt it’s gotten somewhat better since the bailouts?..or do you believe it’s just an accident it’s improved at all and would have improved if it was just ignored?….now , next time you get an electrical , gas bill…. Look and see if your tax dollars pay for the service to ev en be there…. I wiring, the pipes,,, the infrastructure is paid for by taxes…. I just saw this poll this morning…. 31% of America blames Bush over the economy…. Only 7% blame Obama …that poll was for the state our economys in now…looks like the numbers support me..

    • Dale

      Phil . . . how’d you feel about Waco? Now that was torture, many died, women and children at the hands of the AG of the day . . . Reno I believe. Right hand man was Holder. Didn’t hear any of you guys concerned about their Constitutional Rights, and these wer US citizens.

      But according to the Geneva Convention, non-uniformed combatants can be shot as spies on the battlefield. You are pulling out your hair over them getting a little water poured over their faces . . . sooooo nuts!!!!

    • Doug

      Who did they poll Philly or where Boston, NY? Phil banks that could not make it without money should have failed there is always a stronger bank around the corner to pick up the pieces that’s how true market work but for the last 10 years and beyond we have been doing what is called crony capitalism in other words who ever is in power decides who makes who don’t instead of a free market! I don’t care if Dem or Rebub they are all out of touch and can’t run a the kool aid stand that you are getting your libations from!

    • Meteorlady

      Phil – you need to study Japan and the results of government intervention into the free market. They have been extremely slow to come out of their recession because of government intervention.

    • cr747

      Phil, evidently they only polled the CONGRESS to come up with those figures. I saw a poll today::: 368 polled, and 82.9% said they would vote for Palin over Obama.. That pole was on the internet!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Phil

    Ken… Please google the ” military code of justice”…. It states Waterboading is illegal….. Then google ” Bush ignored strong military opposition to inhanced interrogation methods…or do you not respect the law…By the way Ken… I probley watch more of Fox news than I do msnbc…I find them both slanted… But for the sake of our discussion I’ll just use Google… I’d suggest factcheck.com or truthorfiction.com but you’d just say liberals owned those sites

    • Dale

      And what does the military code of justice apply to . . . the military – foreign and domestic . . . correct!!! Not non-uniformed combatants or terrorists.

      “had McCain and Palin been elected this country would probley be in a depression right now” . . . don’t like the Progressive McCain either . . . but have difficulty imagining that they would have spent us into Oblivion in just 1 year.
      Cause of the Meltdown – in case you missed it all was the Comm Reinvestment Act 1999 . . . Trillions of worthless mortgages, Fannie/Freddie, packaged into derivitives, fenced all over the world . . . the Dimms and a few repugs own this. Bush in his defence tried to reign in FAnnie/Freddie two or three times back in the day . . . its all in the records. Of course Fwanks, Dodd and Watters and co. fought to keep the status quo. The Bamster is an amateur.

    • Joe H.

      Phil,
      If waterboarding is illegal then why do they train our special forces with it? Don’t hear them complaining!!! Do me a favor, Join up, go to the middle east, watch some of your buddies die at the hands of terrorists and then come back here and tell me how much you are against waterboarding!!!

      • eyeswideopen

        Joeh, please, I know you are smarter than your last post. We waterboard our soldiers, so they aren’t caught off guard, if a country doesn’t adhere to the Geneva Convention and waterboards them. We also train them for all kinds of combat situations which doesn’t mean that agree with those techniques, but we want them aware of what could happen to them. We don’t however do it repeatedly and they do know that we won’t let them die. Little different that what we are doing to the prisioners. If it’s no big deal, how about you volunteering to go for 283 waterboardings in one month, then you can shoot your mouth off on wether it is torture or not.

        • coal miner

          Eyes,

          We need old Jim Bob back.He had them all running for cover,including Daveh.

          • Joe H.

            coalscabber,
            NOBODY had me running for cover!!! especially you! That coal dust has hardened your brain cells, what few there were of them!!

          • libertytrain

            coal miner – if you’re talking about “gentleman” jim – I don’t think anyone ran from him – they just found him grossly repulsive and terribly uncouth. No reason to validate anyone who is so foul in his demeanor no matter the side he is on.

          • Michael J.

            Coal Miner,
            Who’s running from who? We’re all still here and Jim Blab is still gone.

        • Joe H.

          eyes,
          For someone that claims to have served, you are very naieve!! Do you honestly believe these people think that we are going to kill them??? They are trained also!!! They are trained to work our justice system and just how far we can and will go. Don’t be a fool!!

          • coal miner

            libery,

            I am talking about Jim Bob,not Gentlemen Jim.They are two different persons. I ran out of replies.

    • cr747

      I imagine all of those that where killed 09/11/01 by the terrorists would have rather been waterboarded than flown into buildings, and on the grounds.. Ask the families that lost loved ones in that attack what they had rather have.. I think they would answer,”waterboarding,”
      I know what I have seen from other countries,, and this is minor compared to waterboarding!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • James Corbin

    Get information any way possible to save lives of americans. The terrorist want to kill us any way they can. (be-head)Remember??????
    We are not dealing with passionate people—-These people are cruel!You people, that are sympathetic to these terrorist—I woner if they came after you or your family how much sympathy would you have then???

  • James Corbin

    Phil—–What are we in now????

  • Phil

    I also have no problem trying terrorism suspects in federal courts either… I can’t think of a better place than New York where the crimes were committed….. I also support Miranda rights and providing lawyers…. Why?… Because Americas better than the terrorist and we have the best justice system on the planet… Didn’t hear any opposition from republicans when Bush had suspects tried in federal courts… Wonder why that is… I also have no problem with the suspects using the courts as a forum to spew their hate message…. The vast majority in the world condemed the terrorist act and I suspect it would only show how hatefull they are…we don’t need to fear them, we don’t need to be afraid of their message… And we don’t need to become tortures and terrorist to fight them

    • Joe H.

      Phil,
      those were caught on American soil!!! The ones now were caught on foreign soil!!

      • eyeswideopen

        Joe, you need to check your facts, the Shoe Bomber, caught right here in good Ole USA. I know the right doesn’t like to fact check as it causes them to not be able to make statements that are untrue, but sorry, you are not correct.

        • Joe H.

          eyes,
          You need to read a little better. He was talking about the ones that Bush tried!!!

    • Meteorlady

      Gads Phil – you are getting more and more out there. Why should I pay millions of dollars on a bunch of worthless cattle dung for a trial. These are not Americans – these are war criminals (terrorists). Why would you want to expose the people of New York to more acts of terrorism by bringing these people to our country? Instead we could spend those millions of dollars on infrastructure.

      • Claire

        I call it like it is. Instead of wasting money, time, energy on these worthless pieces of flesh—where is the nearest tree??? I know, I know, we are supposed to be civilized. For the life of me, I cannot have any compassion for these terrorists. I simply cannot have any compassion for anything or anyone that does harm to America and her people. Years ago, look what they did to cattle rustlers and the people that stole horses. Now they are put in prison, free medical care, good food to eat, exercise rooms, with all their needs taken care of. If they are put in prison, the prison should be like an outhouse, not like a hotel. The terrorists should receive exactly what they dish out. They should end up with a horrible existence until such time they are put to death.

  • Phil

    Of course the terrorist Are cruel…. So do you want to be them?… Were better than them and the only to beat them is not become like them..look it up… The vast majority in the military oppose torture..we have to remain better than them….international law forbids torture..

    • Jana

      Phil the terrorists laugh at people like you. You give them encouragement. Good job. Thanks for nothing.

    • Claire

      I simply cannot agree with you. I bet you would feel and think differently if they were coming after you. If you were captured by a terrorist or if they killed your family would you just say “Oh, hello.”

      • http://joeaeverson@hotmail.com Joe A. Everson

        From the Afghan point of view, when a US Predator flies over and fires missiles into their villages and kills a bunch of civilians, they might tend to view the US as terrorists. At least they have more evidence then we ever got as to who is shooting at them. We have no evidence as to who was responsible on 9-11 except what we were told. No Arabs boarding the flights or Arab names on flight manifests. Many accused are still alive or were dead before the event. Our government refuses to release Pentagon videos and other evidence. Why?

        • Joe H.

          Joe A.
          We sure didn’t confuse who be-headed that reporter did we? We sure didn’t mistake who be-headed that one soldier either did we?!?!?!?

        • Doug

          When you live and know people amongst you are bad and you doing nothing about it or try to cleanse the village of them then basically you are part of them so getting hit by a bomb or a missle missile you deserve it!

  • Phil

    Not only is torture aginst international law, it’s also aginst American law and the military code of justice… The constitution and bill of rights

  • Dale

    According to Federal Law today . . . they can be tried by the military. The Bamsters concept of US courts will see many of there folks WALK!!! Waterboarding is not torture, nobody died, nobody maimed or scared for life . . . many soldiers have experience waterboarding during their training.

    Phil . . . how’d you feel about Waco? Now that was torture, many died, women and children at the hands of the AG of the day . . . Reno I believe. Right hand man was Holder. Didn’t hear any of you guys concerned about their Constitutional Rights, and these wer US citizens.

    • Meteorlady

      Add Ruby Ridge to that list of atrocities.

  • Phil

    James… What do you mean” what are we in now”…. ?… If you’re saying were in a war… I agree… If you’re saying were in a recession I agree again…. I am saying the economy is still horrible but it has somewhat improved… We gotta stop the job loses…Obamas only been in a year… Any problem with giving him at least this term to try and turn it around …. After this 1st 4 years I’ll decide how much good he’s done … Like I said , I’m not happy that he’s wasted so much time trying to work with Republicans who have no intention if working with him…

    • Dale

      In a war alright Phil . . . with a pres that has already outspent Bush many times . . . in only 12 months . . . so according to you . . . at this time next years after another 4 Trillion we will survey the damage?

      As unemployment stays near 10% . . . not counting the 7 to 8% who dropped of the roles, Many more mortgages about to default, a commercial RE possible collapse and a rapidly Growing Govt workforce. You are liking this???

      • eyeswideopen

        Dale, were you that concerned when Reagan was spending so much? Just wondering.

    • Joe H.

      Phil,
      the economy is better??!?!?!?!? How when we are 14.3 trillion in debt and our great grand children will have to pay for it??? don’t be stupid!!!

    • cr747

      Phil, that’s simply not true..The Republicans have tried and tried to meet with them, but no Obama, and the democrats locked them out… What do you call that.. I call it Bull Crap. They where trying to get the health bill passed without letting them know what was going on.. Turn that around,, what would you have thought of that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Phil

    Dale… I feel Waco was a crime…. I believe we could have got Koresh without tanks, machine guns and bombs….o also believe Janet Reno is responsible and should have had to answer in court…I’m ashamed of what happened there … I mean, Koresh use to go into Waco for supplys, why not just walk up and cuff him…. I also have some guilt for Koresh for putting those people in Danger… I’m a liberal , but I don’t overlook anyones guilt even if it was Reno from Clintons administration… By the way I didn’t vote for Clintons 2nd term because of his support for the No knock laws, drug wars and Dui check points… I don’t care what anybody says ” Clinton was no Liberal”…I still don’t see much diffrence in Clinton and W…I voted for Harry Brown in 96….libertarian… I knew it was just a protest vote but I had to vote aginst Clinton…still not a Clinton fan.. But I fo hope he recovers his health ..

    • Dale

      Clinton was a liberal . . . till the 94 elected Repub congress reigned him in. But similarly in 2006 the Dimmicrat congress ran Bush. To blame Bush for great crash of 08 is a little naive, it took many years to grow the Trillions in Worthless Mortgages and Bush in 03 and 06 tried to regulate Fannie/Freddie. F & F are still out of control today, hence I suspect we will see a repeat later this year.

      Giving non-uniformed combatants the same rights as US citizens is folly . . . the Military can deal far better with that. Many lawyers have said so . . . building a domestic case against someone who was picked up in the mountains of Afganistan will not work – I predict many will walk away – maybe to come to a town near you!!!

      Waterboarding is not torture, nobody died, nobody maimed or scared for life . . . many soldiers have experience waterboarding during their training.

      • eyeswideopen

        Sure would like to know how three prisioners stuffed rags in their own mouths, taped their hands behind their backs, taped their ankels together, got up on a sink and tied a sheet around their necks and hung themselves. Miracle!!! What a miracle!! That makes us no better than the murders we hate.

        • jim

          Eyes, They climbed onto the sink first. You won’t kill you self that way because you’re not as clever as them.

    • Joe H.

      Phil,
      how do you figure that slick willie wasn’t a liberal??? Conservatives believe in LESS government not more!!! Slick willie was liberal through and through!!! Even to trying to steal silverware from the white house when he left!!! Huh, huh, huh, we thought hit was ours!! All the GOOD motels give souveneirs don’t they????

  • Phil

    Dale,,, yes, Obama has out spent Bush… But do you want to know the diffrence as I see it….. At least Obamas spending is on America… Bushs spending on Iraq is something that’s just lost and were going to suffer the effects of Bushs spending for decades…. Obamas spending actually could show returns for our country…and A large part of the money Obamas had to spend is because of the state of the economy Bush left us…Obama claims the healthcare program he wants will actually cost us less in the long run and I’m willing to see if that’s true… I’m no expert on healthcare cost… But I do know the republican way has never worked….I have a question for any republican making less than 250, 000 a year….. Why do you support paying in taxes what top 2% don’t have to pay… It seems to me your argument is… We will pay what the rich don’t….the county I live in is flat broke and a republican anti tax county … But everday in the opinion section they gripe about laying off fireman, police, potholes in the highways, cutting bus service, turningout streetlights, garbage collection in parks, not watering grass in parks…. It’s a disaster,, but they just keep voting down any taxes… I don’t believe you can have a civilization without taxing…. Are you ok with the tax dollars wasted on Iraq but oppose healthcare for Americans…I don’t mind paying taxes for services provided…

    • Joe H.

      Sorry Phil YOU are wrong!!! Obummer has spent on Afghanistan, and even upped the money that is given in support of Israel!!! He has not spent the money collected on the first stimulus bill and is already talking of another. All of which is borrowed from China. I might add the first bill he had to have to “keep unemployment from rising above 8% and where is it now??? 10%+?

    • Meteorlady

      Can you spell mercenaries? There are more mercenaries in Afghanistan than US soldiers. These mercenaries bet three time the amount of money, or more, than the soldiers make. Obama just upped the anti over there and sent more troops. Where the deadline for the end to that one?

      I must admit Bush Sr. was right about not going into Iraq – and Jr should have listened, but still we did get rid of a person who gassed thousand, maybe even millions of his own people in the north. Maybe we did do some good after all.

  • Phil

    Dale… Sorry, your wrong… Waterboarding is torture and is aginst the law ..if you believe it’s not torture , then what’s the concept for?…it’s aginst international law…. Law is how we define civilization…

  • Carl Casino

    Guys & /Gals, Arguing(debating) with Phil is like wrestling with a pig in the mud. The pig loves mud and nothing you can say or do will dissuade him from eating slop(drinking the koolaid) and loving it. Pigs are just not that smart.

  • Phil

    Dale…. The republicans pushed deregulation…. That’s why the bad mortages…. The idea was to give more Americans a chance to own home…. Not for lenders to take advantage of deregulation… The lenders had an obligation to give fair loans….and their to blame if they knowingly gave out loans they knew people couldn’t pay….you can’t use the argument that it was ok to give bad loans becuse the democrats wanted to make it easier for low encome people to own a home…. This is basic common sense….and the republicans are responsible for deregulation…you can’t run a business into the ground and use the excuse that nobody was looking so it’s ok….

  • Phil

    Carl…. Were discussing …if your incapable of joining in fine… It’s ok if you’d like to insert your head back in the sand…this site is an open opinion site….i suppose you’d rather just come into an opinion site and just hear what you want… This isn’t Fox news…and it’s still a free country…I also think anyone here discussing these issues can do so without you deciding what they should think… Got it?

  • Phil

    It’s also a no brainer to me that if you’re being waterboarded in basic training the person being waterboarded is pretty confident he’s not going to be killed….and don’t you think the reason someone would recieve waterboarding in training is to prepare the person for torture …

    • Dale

      Repeat for Phil . . . no body was killed, the captives believed their lives were threatened, but they never were . . . it was all an illusion, but got valuable information that probably saved lives, maybe even yours. Next you’ll be telling us that the loud music was torture, if you’re talking about Rap . . . I would agree with you . . .lol

      Deregulation was in 1999, including Comm. Reinvestment Act under Clinton . . . repubs participated, but it wasn’t deregulation that caused the problem, there were still lots of regulations in place, but no one bothered to use them. Dodd and Fwank were in charge of banking and F & F oversite . . .neither bothered.

      • Joe H.

        Dale,
        that’s just it I don’t believe the terrorists actually thought their lives were at risk!!! They are trained too. they are trained in how far we will go and are able to go!!! they’re trained to cry out when a soldier walks by them to make others think they are being hurt!!!

  • Phil

    That’s ok Jim….. Thanks for the civil discussion and enjoy your weekend

  • Phil

    I’ve said about all I need to anyway….i enjoyed the back and forth conversation with most of you that were capable of making a point without just reverting to insults…. Enjoy your weekend…

    • jim

      Hi Phil, Just got home from work. If you read closer I said HALF a decade. In 2006 when the reps held everything the economy was growing,unemployment was at an all time low and the markets were at a record high. So,yes the tax cuts were working, when buisneses are profitable they grow and hire people. Then something happened in late 06. In 07 things started to decline. What was different in 07,08 and 09? Not Republicans. In 06 unemployment 4.4% 2010 over 10%. 3years Dem congress 1 year Dem monopoly. Small buisneses would like to expand, but they don’t know what to expect tax wise so they are holding off hiring new help until they know what to expect. You stated that a 3rd world country is what the Republicans would like the U.S. to be. You voiced opinions as to why there policies would take us there, but you never showed motive. What motives do the Republicans have to MALICIOUSLY turn our country into a 3rd world nation? The way the Dem monopoly is handling our economy they will be the ones who invent and achieve being the 1rst 4rth world country. Your acusation that the Rep.’s are obstructing every thing “just” to see Obama fail is a serious charge. Is it maybe because they just don’t agree with the policies? Just food for thought.

  • http://joeaeverson@hotmail.com Joe A. Everson

    Bullies and cowards are the same today as they always have been.
    They pick on the little guy, they travel in gangs. Afraid to face someone one on one, they tie you up before driving a stake in your ear. They don’t have a just cause, they just enjoy inflicting pain to the helpless.

  • Phil

    Dale… That’s exactly what deregulation means… Nobody was allowed to look at the deals the lenders were handing out….it was the republicans that insisted on the deregulations that allowed for the faulty loans…. It was like asking the fox to watch the chicken house…. Most of the abuses happened in the 8 years Bush was in office… Do you remember him saying ” Go Shopping” our economys Robust and growing”.. Those were Bushs exact words….theirs a good reason the vast majority blame Bush for the economy… I just saw the poll that cameout this morning saying Americans blame Bush… I blame Clinton for giving in to the republicans on the deregulation issue… It doesn’t matter 1 bit who was in charge of housing during Clintons administration if they wernt allowed to check the books and regulate the lenders…and still today , the Republicans are still for extending Bushs tax cuts for the top 2% while we in the middleclass foot their bill… And it’s just amazing that you republicans happily pay and defend
    the tax cuts for the Rich… I honestly believe a lot of you republicans and Fox news watchers would cut your nose off if you thought it would harm president Obama..

    • Joe H.

      Phil,
      right tell them repubs about all those jobs you got from the broke people, and the poor support the economy SOOOO much!!! The rich are the ones that own the big businesses and are the ones that are going to hire for the better paying jobs. In turn those are the jobs that support social security more!!!

  • Phil

    Dale… You do understand the very idea of torture isn’t to kill….it’s to inflict pain and terror….. Anyway you cut it.. It’s illegal … Dale… Why don’t you google… Have any detainees ever died from torture while in American custody….killing anyone in custody is murder… That’s not what Americas about….watch the movie purple heart…what was done to our bomber pilots during ww2 was torture and the japanesse did it to extract information to protect their homeland and interest…..you cannot win this argument…none of the arguments you brought up condone torturing a humanbeing…so that nobody was killed( which you can’t prove) isn’t the issue… If the prisoner was killed then it’s just murder …America must never stoop to the level of our enemy….

    • jim

      Phil, Do people who would plot flying airliners full of passengers into buildings or send someone to blow up a schoolbus full of children actually qualify as being a humanbeing? Just a thought.

      • SiliconDoc

        I’m sick of the liberal puritans torturing the rest of us with their insane equivalency tests.
        Truth is liberals support murdering over a million babies a year in a most gruesome and torturous way, but when it comes to enemies of the USA, not it’s young, the liberals reverse their murder death kill policy of “free choice” and make up some idiotic spiel that attemtps to vindicate their baby murdering underbelly.
        I’m really, really sick of them.
        The prisoners at Gitmo should have been interrogated with all the techniques the lunatic left have forced into grey and illegal areas, and if found to be part of the jihad against the USA, executed within a month. I don’t agree with a needle for the executions either, they should be shot by a firing squad.
        Since we didn’t do that, thanks to the insane crybaby liberals, we have given the terrorists their greatest recruitment tool.
        The democrats and this president wanted to release them into US cities with the full bounty of public aid, which is living like a king compared to the sands of the middle east – do liberals consider for one moment what kind of recruiting tool that is to a religious fanatic ? The fanatic will figure to themselves their target, the infidel, is so corrupt and guilty that God Himself delivered the death blows the terrorists issued, then set them free with a stipend from the infidel sinner, in their own land.
        Liberals just do not THINK beyond their insane, crybaby, look at my goody ideas, personal glorification.
        We see how they’ve HONORED Bill Ayers the terrorist, and given him a sought after position of tenure in the higher institutions of learning.
        This is what and who the liberals and our current usurping traitor in chief are all about. It’s plain as day. They are confused and indoctrinated through decades of propaganda shoved down their throats, that they now swallow willingly.
        We’re to the point that liberals have begun outlawing war (one of their huge utopian dreams), but only for their own side – their own nation, their own skins – since they cannot affect the enemy. One wonders what it will take for the liberals to come to their senses.
        I imagine reality may some day slap them in the face, and it won’t be pretty, and likely be a very high price, for their scrambled minds to come to sensible conclusions.

        • Jana

          Silicon Doc, Again you are so very correct. Unfortunately these BLEEDING HEART LIBERALS will never learn, and they want to rule this country. How pathetic.

      • Claire

        jim–I’ll answer this. These terrorists are not human beings. They are the scum of the earth. And they should be treated and dealt with accordingly. The majority of the animals on this earth are better than they are.

        • Joe H.

          Claire,
          I agree with you on that and I’ll take it a bit farther and say ALL animals, even the rat!!!

    • Joe H.

      actually Phil YOU are WRONG again! If caught without uniforms, the enemy can be shot summarily as spies!!!

    • Roland Tibbs

      how about this phill lets take all of those (word removed for offensive content)and tie each one of them to a post at ground zero and sell hand size rocks for a dollar a piece to anyone who wants to throw one until their dead!And give the proceeds to the victims of that day

    • Claire

      Phil–We are supposed to be a civilized society. And I cannot condone what the enemy has done to OUR soldiers. Can you even imagine what the enemy does to our soldiers when they capture them? Come on, I will choose the welfare of OUR soldiers first and foremost before even thinking about the enemy. In this matter, I believe in “an eye for an eye.” “Get them” before they get us.

      • Jana

        Claire, AMEN.

  • http://n/a swilver kitty

    Water boarding is better than beheading or stoning to death.

    • SiliconDoc

      No, sorry, according to our insane libtard party waterboarding is the same as sawwing off someone’s head or buring them to their shoulders in sand and stoning them to death, or just stoning and kicking them to death, or sawwing off a few of their hands and feet then stoning them to death or hanging them from a pole with a rope in the town square to signal all the other rebellious libs what’s in store for them.
      See, the libs are INSANE.
      I guess at some point the libs are going to need a personal demonstration to ” get the difference” downpat.

  • s c

    As is the case with all practicing liars and hypocrites, the rule is to point the finger of imperfection at everyone who doesn’t ‘measure up.’ At the same time, these ‘masters of pc perfection’ refuse to apply the rule to themselves.
    I am sorely tempted to conclude that these people are closet politicians. They DO have so much in common.

  • http://n/a tom cat

    I wont waste my time talking to phil This person is entrenched in liberal dogma. as for the gitmo terorist they have it too damm good they should eat what we give our own troops. and if they get out of line beat them down like a bad habit and keep them down they are nothing more than vermin.

    • Jana

      tom cat, when they close gitmo and send these terrorists over here and they try throwing their excrement on their non military guards, I have a feeling that will be the last time they will do it. They will find out that it will not be tolerated.

  • Claire

    Torture— “Do unto them before they do unto you.”

    • jim

      Or- Do unto others, then split.

      • Claire

        jim—Funny!! That was a good one!!

    • http://joeaeverson@hotmail.com Joe A. Everson

      Matthew 7:12
      Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

      In other words, what goes around comes around.

      • jim

        You reap what you sow?

  • http://Newsmax Mark Supak

    These idiots really need to get a real life, don’t they? Just like libs, to waste their time on old news. Guess they’ve got to do SOMETHING in their little, lonely, meaningless lives.

    • Joe H.

      Mark S.,
      like I said earlier you have to excuse the libbers!! It’s hard to see ones hero CRASH AND BURN!!!!!

  • http://PEROSNALLIBERTY RogerGB

    Special interest groups and lawyers. We have a problem with these people stealing our rights.

  • David G

    I am with Judge Roy Been: Do justice. Give terrorists a fair trial, and hang them.

  • Barb

    Wow,let’s start with the original question. Kudos to Judge Bybee and any other judge with the balls to acknowledge the fact that what was done to those terrorists was hardly torture. I know that there are a lot of so called human activists (code words for socialistic morons) that would disagree but that is the absolute truth! Now, blaming the Iraq war totally on Bush is beginning to wear thin, with me and several 100 thousands other Americans as well as blaming Bush for everything else bad that comes down the pike. Bush was part of it yes but so was the Democratic CONTROLLED Congress AND Pelosi, Reid, et al voted in favor of it and Obama said he was going to end it immediately and it is still going and he escalated Afgahnistan! What’s up with that Obama defenders?? Obama didn’t inherit anything from Bush. Obama just created a catastrophe of historic size for our beloved country to deal with for decades!

    • cr747

      Barb, I agree on everything you stated.. I to am getting a little upset about the Democrats, and Obama blaming every thing on Bush..I will have to say Obama is far from being perfect.. He does not have enough leadership in him to know what to do!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Grover Syck

    Torture. A black mark upon our reputation that will take generations to remove.

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