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How To Change Human Liberty To Fascism Without Anyone Knowing It

June 3, 2010 by  

How To Change Human Liberty To Fascism Without Anyone Knowing It

“There is nothing to fear except the persistent refusal to find out the truth, the persistent refusal to analyze the cause of happening.” —Dorothy Thompson

There is absolutely no need for military conquest. Changing human liberty to fascism is done gradually… even if it takes 100 years. Here’s how:

  • Change the monetary system to fiat, i.e., paper money.
  • Transfer wealth with fiat to the State via inflation and depreciation of the currency. Have a graduated income tax.
  • Create wars.
  • Keep race stirred up with class warfare.
  • Destroy the family—put the wife to work.
  • Promote homosexuality. Glorify it.
  • Create government schools under the name of free public education. Dumb the people down so they can’t think.
  • Unisex and/or transgender.
  • Promote “brotherly love”—altruism.
  • Denigrate women.
  • Glorify sex, promote perversion.
  • Hold and maintain all the historic freedom-sounding names like constitution, privacy rights, private property, American flag, voting rights, democracy, elected representatives, free press, etc.
  • Use very elite and refined propaganda to sway the public on all issues.
  • Keep the public ignorant on gold (real money). Erase it from memory.
  • Gun control through gradualism. Cultivate the public to fear guns by promoting the idea that guns are dangerous. Inflate gun accidents and gun incidents on nationwide media. Sensationalize the negative.
  • Keep the trusted gang in power no matter who is president.
  • Manipulate government statistics.
  • Promote peace and manufacture arms for export. Be the world’s number one arms manufacturer.
  • Harass people with “foreign bank accounts” while having the largest tax haven in the world with and through U.S. banks within the U.S.
  • Enslave the world with fiat called euphemistically a reserve currency. Don’t allow the gold standard anywhere in the world.
  • Call it private property but have perpetual and increasing property taxes.
  • Confuse the terms liberal, conservative, socialist, communist, fascist, democrat, republican.

One Of The Greatest Deceptions
Persuade the public that there is a “national debt” and “deficit spending.” This ruse implies legitimate accounting. The public must not know and must never know that a fiat system implies default from its inception. How, my friends, can there be debt when everybody knows that fiat is created to infinity at no cost?

Same Principle
The bank “loans” you “borrowed” money on your home and calls it your debt, but is it? The bank just created the fiat. It cost the bank nothing, but the bank calls it your debt or your mortgage and you believe that you have debt. The bank invests in you without risk. If you are unable to pay your mortgage the bank forecloses. It has taken from you what is yours under the guise of you having defaulted on the loan without putting a dime of its own money at risk. Is this economic slavery? This is our system.

Finally, Purposefully Keep The Populace Unhealthy
The Food and Drug Administration (FDA), an arm of the Federal government, has long sought to deny you the information you need to stay healthy and control what you eat.

In 2006, the FDA declared war on cherry producers and threatened them with legal action over claims that the antioxidants and anthocyanins in cherries provided healthful benefits. This despite the fact that another arm of the government, the United States Department of Agriculture (USDA), had produced studies showing cherries contained antioxidants and anthocyanins, and there is medical proof they are beneficial in protecting against the onset of cancer, as pain relievers and to help ease the symptoms of gout and arthritis.

Now the FDA is doing the same thing to walnut growers. Walnuts are rich in omega-3 fatty acids, which help to lower cholesterol, protect against heart disease, stroke and some cancers, ease arthritis and other inflammatory diseases and fight depression and other mental illnesses.

The FDA has decided that cherries and walnuts are drugs that must be regulated. In its letter to walnut distributor Diamond Foods, Inc., the FDA wrote: “[b]ecause of these intended uses, your walnut products are drugs… they are not generally recognized as safe and effective for the above referenced conditions.” It goes on to say that, “they may not be legally marketed with the above claims in the United States without an approved new drug application.”

Yet Frito-Lay is allowed to make all kinds of ridiculous claims about the “heart-healthy” benefits of its processed snack foods. (naturalnews.com)

The FDA is at war with healthful, organic and beneficial natural foods and has no interest in keeping you healthy.

Bob Livingston

is an ultra-conservative American and author of The Bob Livingston Letter™, founded in 1969. Bob has devoted much of his life to research and the quest for truth on a variety of subjects. Bob specializes in health issues such as nutritional supplements and alternatives to drugs, as well as issues of privacy (both personal and financial), asset protection and the preservation of freedom.

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  • David in Ma.

    And the solution is?

    • JC

      Abolish the Federal Reserve, which is not Federal and has no Reserves.
      Hold politicians / government accountable – if they are not faithful to the Constitution they get fired or jailed.
      That ought to just about do it, all by itself. Quite simple really.

      • Ted

        Aaaaaaa-men!

        • Denniso

          WOW!!! Bob Livingston, that is some catchall of cultural and individual aspects of society that you claim lead to ‘fascism’. ‘Promote homosexuality’?
          Homosexuality has probably existed since the ‘dawn if time’…only recently have some modern societies struggled to grant human rights to gays and not burn them at the stake,and you say it’s the road to fascism?

          ‘Promote brotherly love and altruism’? I guess,by your estimation,we’d be better off if we copied Somalia or Rawanda and butchered one another more regularly and efficiently? Altruism as a negative? Now that’s a new one right out of ‘newspeak’.

          ‘Destroy the family by putting women to work’? I guess you forget history…when women literally couldn’t work,except for the poorest who had absolutely no choice,they were essentially the property of husbands w/ almost no choices in life. Part of the modern,more enlightened times is that women want to be as free as men have mostly been,and it takes an independent career to make that possible…not to mention there are satisfying jobs that women now have some access to. And you might imagine that it is also partly the fault of the capitalistic economy itself that often makes it absolutely neccessary
          for the majority of women to be ‘put to work’.

          Your generalities for the road to fascism are way too simplistic for you,as an educated man, to use…your litany may play well w/ most of the undereducated extremists here,but it should be beneath you.

          • David

            Completely agree !!! I understand Livingston’s basic concept but, as usual, on either side of the political spectrum, it is overly exxagerated to the point of fearmongering.

          • Ashley

            it is overly exxagerated to the point of fearmongering. — No “gifted” people have done this in this administration — i.e. Arizona is racist, when Governor Brewer is basically enforcing the federal law ICE 287 that the feds refuse to enforce; TEA people are racist, when a search of TEA organizations shows their objection is against big/socialistic government; the DOJ refuses to prosecute a black panther, who prevented voting by whites, by stating kill all cracker babies — it looks like the far left is doing what they do best — accuse their scapegoat of having the characteristics that are actually the characteristics of the far left.

          • Ashley

            Denniso says:
            June 7, 2010 at 9:34 am

            refers to the undereducated extremists — if you mean TEA people and/or capitalists/private industry supporters — they are getting more educated every day — just as the big government supporters are fiercely trying to kill individual freedoms; America has a free spirit — the corrupt have severely damaged America, but they will NOT succeed.

      • Al Sieber

        JC you are sooo right. but first you have to wake people up to what the Federal Reserve is. it has a catchy name so you think its part of the Govt. like the “Patriot Act”, nothing patriotic about it.

      • refuse2lose

        I think we already have a solution for holding politicians accountable and for getting rid of them if they stray from Constitutional law…..it’s called the election process.If Americans started taking their voting as serious as they do their reality tv we could have avoided alot of our problems

        • Fear GOD, not man!

          We can vote all we want, but this is a very lengthy process. If the elected “officials” aren’t doing thier jobs, our forefathers provided the more expedient way, called charging them with TREASON! Any of these so called politicians found to be committing treason (obama, pelosi, ried, gore, clinton, and all others, from both parties or TEA and independents, too, in bed with them) should be delt with accordingly. They should all have Moral standards that line up exclusively with the Holy Word of God. Also, they should be doing what the majority wants (per the Word of God). Let’s clean house and put some God Fearing men and women in to do the job they are called to do! If we can accomplish this, watch the Blessings of God as they happen!

          • tazio2013

            Don’t be silly; god is irrelevant to this discussion and you are obviously unfamiliar with Nietzsche and other more enlightened beings. Fear nothing and nobody plus have a bit of bullion at the ready and enjoy the most exciting period in US history; i.e., from now to 01/20/17 when potus #45 takes over. Semper fi!

          • Sir T

            I can only say 7 words to that comment “I AGREE WITH YOU ONE HUNDRED PERCENT”.

          • Mick for thought

            Have to agree with tazio2013. Lots of good preaching here but no real solution. Thanks for your comments God.

          • http://naver samurai

            tazio, God is relevant in everything. Speaking of treason, Obama bin Laden is being investigated for his job offer to a congressman from Pennsylvania and possibly the BP oil spill mess. Let’s see what happens over the next two months.

          • Norm

            Fear GOD, not man!
            Let God, Allah, Visna, Budda, etc. handle that which is theirs. Supreme entitities need no help from us naked apes.
            Let man take care of that which is his to control. The only way to do that is through a free government and a free and liberated population. We have that in the US. While it is a slow and somewhat flawed system, driven by profit and human ineptness, it is the best available.

        • http://www.fairtaxnation.com tsaray

          you lose! Elections mean nothing as long as the Fed and the Federal Income Tax stay in place. Any newbies will fall into the same trap as the ones they replaced — they cannot resist the bribes and the power structure. Been there, got fired for the whistle! The caucus and the polls do not work for the people. Any wrong winners (those who don’t play along) will soon be gone, ineffective, destroyed, etc.. First step to “Return Liberty” — the ‘Fair Tax Bill’ — see: http://www.fairtax.org then we go from there. Wake up America, smell the toxins !!!!!

          • DaveH

            Not so fast. There are two sides to that Fair Tax story:
            http://mises.org/daily/1814

          • http://www.g2interactive.com satch

            Wake up! Every business already is a tax collector. Every business is already a tax collector. There are now 150,000,000 businesses. There are 150,000,000 1040 tax payers that spend a fortune in federal reserve notes and time doing compulsory work (slavery) for the Internal Revenue Service. You could reduce the IRS by 3/4th by eliminating income and property taxes in all it’s forms.

            You don’t really own anything that you rent from the government.

            You talk about everything being taxed. Not so. food, rents, health care must be exempt. For those below the poverty level that claim the tax is unfair, give them an exemption that they must file to get a refund.

            The federal sales tax, a legitimate excise, would not require anywhere near that paperwork currently imposed upon businesses.

            Oh by the way, you anti God people, need to read the Federalist papers, the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution of the Unites States of America. God is relevant to our moral fiber and the Judeo-Christian ethics embodied in those documents.

          • http://www.g2interactive.com satch

            CORRECTION! meant to say there are not 150,000,000 businesses.

        • SiliconDoc

          Reality TV is once a day, or more, or at minimum once a week. Voting is once or twice a year.
          Not like the now old and too often used and abused adage is worth a drop of wee wee in a bucket.
          Same for whines that football is taken more seriously.
          -
          Name something that happens for the average American once or twice a year for barely an hour please, then compare it to voting. Hopefully something with as many possible consequences.
          Then let’s see what is taken too seriously.
          -
          I am so SICK of the insane metaphors.
          I don’t want to hear about Paris Hilton being more important, either, since Republicans in general went out of their minds screaming to jail her, and took great pleasure when she was thrown behind bars ( and Britney Spears in the psych ward, too). Believe me, I know personally how mentally invested they were. Same goes for the OJ incidents.
          I’m SICK of the very people screaming everyone should pay attention as much as they do, also having a HUGE opinion and happy to voice it (often even though not always for all, of course) when it comes to the very things they attack as given too important consideration and attention when they denigrate the general public.
          Perhaps DEMANDING the Republican leadership spread the truths we get here on the news, in any and all appearances, no matter what, for a few minutes and moments before moving to the topic, would do what it takes to educate the public properly.
          As it is, I’m certain you well know the MSM ( and the democrats and their NEA and public school control, newspaper control, magaizne control, and {pop and music radio control ten times larger than all right talk radio} ) have done everything in their power to make that NOT happen.
          So how much can we fault the public, really ? Not much.
          The only real chance we have it seems to me, is an all out public information campaign at each and every news and media appearance by the Republican party that at least tries to stand for what this site offers, and spreads the literally banned from the discussion for decades, information. So far, any wide ranging effort from the top of the GOP appears to be totally or near totally absent.
          Thanks , I wasn’t trying to pick on you specifically, I’ve heard the same sickening ( to me ) complaint for some time, and I finally had to say something.
          As for the article itself I agree, might as well say, 100%.
          For instance, I read a book by Bella Dodd online (for free), it was a real eye opener.

      • JeffH

        JC, have you ever played the game of Monopoly ? A great PONZI SCHEME?
        Imagine that one player can print all the money they want.
        Before long, that one player will own everything, and everyone else is broke or in debt.
        The government and Federal Reserve (a quasi-government controlled / privately owned bank system) are printing fiat-funny-money out of thin air, and then try to lend it to everyone possible, flooding the mail with credit-card applications to everyone (and their pets and children too, literally).
        Bill Clinton almost balanced the budget ? He printed a whole lot of money between 1995 and 2000.
        Our money system is a PYRAMID scheme, and all PYRAMID schemes collapse, eventually. As time goes on, this problem can only get bigger and bigger.
        The only thing stopping the collapse of this pyramid is a short time-lag by creating more debt and printing more money.
        But that time-lag is shrinking every day, as the ability to repay debt becomes more difficult.
        Debt will grow larger and larger.
        The time it takes to finally collapse fools people.
        Printing more money to delay the collapse will make inflation get worse and worse.
        It could take decades or centuries, but the inevitable collapse is a mathematical certainty.
        Eventually, the debt and inflation will become impossible to deal with.
        We will not be able to create more debt to create more money.
        We will not be able to spend our way out of the collapse.
        We will not be able to print (money) our way out of the collapse (due to inflation).
        We will not be able to immigrate our way out of the collapse.
        We will not be able to procreate our way out of the collapse.
        We will not be able to increase productivity enough to avoid the collapse.
        We will not be able to tax (or un-tax) our way out of the collapse.

        http://one-simple-idea.com/FederalReserve.htm

        • JC

          Exactly, it’s inevitable. I hope you, like me, have good community arrangements and preperations made. As someone above said, we’re going to seeing some very interesting and exciting times in the near future.

        • D Bish

          Talk about inflation. I got a real shock to day. I bought a sack of cement, it cost $14.95, I owned a retail lumber company about 30 years ago and sold the exact same kind of cement for $1.50 so we have had 100 % inflation in that time. I guess I am telling my age. I am 71 and can also remember 35 cent per gallon gasoline. Are you aware a true silver dime will still buy a gallon of gas. Fiat money is the cause and Obama is printing it like a mad man.

      • lee flanders, hammond n.y.

        100% right the constitution & our laws must upheld & not changed & perverted by any political party or President !!

    • http://dmcdreamer2000@yahoo.com Daniel M Corkery

      I feel we all need to learn, what is good and what is not. I feel this learning should start in school. After all that is the spring board of our education…

      • lee flanders, hammond n.y.

        The teaching of our history as it happened & not as some P.C. liberals think it should have been is all important !!

      • http://www.hardinins.com BDM(bigdaddymike)

        Daniel, that is an extraordinary idea! the only fly in the ointment is that the same people who created/own/run the federal reserve have absconded with our education system many generations ago. Thus the ones doing the educating do not want the populace to be able to think for themselves, as this would lead people to question our print and spend without any collateral philosphy to be exposed as “The Emperor isn’t wearing any clothes” plan that it obviously is…

    • Mick for thought

      This article is just another ploy to sell gold and confuse the truth. The secret is in the middle and the end.

      Use very elite and refined propaganda to sway the public on all issues. (Well not so elite or refined but this sure is working for the rich and powerful)

      Confuse the terms liberal, conservative, socialist, communist, fascist, democrat, republican. (This is done daily on this site)

      Ask yourself who on this site has so much time to be here, they are probably paid to be here.

      Ask yourself who on this site prods and pokes and keeps things stirred up so we don’t see who is really to blame for the decline of America.

      • Al Sieber

        The article just explained what caused our decline, don’t you retain anything? “it’s so fortunate for governments that people don’t think.” A.Hitler.

        • Mick for thought

          No it is a very right wing blame-game using catch words and phrases everyone connects with the current administration not with the truth that the blame lies outside the government in the hands of the mega-rich who manipulate our elected representatives with campaign contributions, bribes and threats.

          It is another scam to sell silver and gold at inflated prices so the mega-rich get richer and when the bubble pops they buy it back for half the cost.

          • DaveH

            The rich can do nothing to us without the force of Government which is growing dramatically larger under the Leaders that you advocate. Government is Force not Reason.
            Think Mick, Think.

          • Norm

            DaveH
            The rich can do nothing to us without the force of government??
            Take a stroll on a beach in Louisana, and tell that to the people going bankrupt. Tell that to the folks who lost their homes, jobs, and and took a beating on the stock markets due to lack of government oversight of financial institutions. Tell that to the millions of people who lost their jobs (and ability to pay taxes) because large companies hired slave labor overseas to replace them. Tell that to stockholders who see their dividends and stock appreciation diminished because management teams giving themselves billion dollar salaries. Imagine a world with no FAA, or FCC.
            The government is innefficient and flawed in many ways. But large business has one goal and one goal only, PROFIT. It’s a good thing but we need oversight.

        • Mick for thought

          PS Just got another scary email from Bob selling me gold.

          • JC

            Mick for “Thought”?
            I think you missed the thought completely.

          • Mick for thought

            I got the thought but I saw the motive.

          • JeffH

            Mick, perhaps you should consider unsubscribing seeing as Bob’s always sending those “scary” emails…OMG!
            I expected more from you than that…

          • libertytrain

            If you find that scary – good grief.

          • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Bruce D.

            I do not understand that kind of a comment. Are you not aware of inflation and the decline of the U.S. dollar. Are you not aware of what printing money means and the result of it when the Fed cannot pay their debts. The left want to blame the money makers in this country but without them this country would be nothing. If Mexico still owned AZ Mexicans would be trying to go farther north because it would be no different than what Mexico is now.

          • DaveH

            Mick,
            I hope you are keeping all your savings in cash. People like you need to reap the results of their bad advice.

          • http://naver samurai

            Maybe you should try understanding what he is saying instead of spewing hate and nonsense towards the man. He’ss been doing this job for a long time and is quite good at it, but what about you? You seem to be on this site a lot, so when do you work? I think that you are a plant that is being paid by someone to give us all a load of BS!

        • JeffH

          Mick, I have to agree with JC.

          • Mick for thought

            Read the article again. Pick out the words we attach to this administration. I will give you one “elite”. You can find the rest.

          • JeffH

            Mick…isn’t everything we read anymore total propaganda…catch words abound and we all use them…”elite”? yeah, I use it often myself…right wing blame game…nope…these words are used in all wings. You’re smart enough to realize that!

          • JeffH

            …as for the words attached to this administration, not any differant than previous administrations with the exception that more of the citizenry are starting to educate themselves. I know you hate the word but “sociaizm” has a way of doing that when people start to wake up to it.

          • Mick for thought

            My point is he could have left out the catch phrases and words that we attach to this administration and lay the blame directly at the feet of the true perpetrators. Someone here quoted Rothschild about controlling money not the countries that who make the laws. Democracy, socialism, fascism does not matter to the people who control the power over the world.

            I see a catch phrase here all the time about Obama and his new world order of socialism and that sad irony is the world order is corporate not political and it has been established for years. The control has been influenced over all of our administrations.

            Laying blame at Obama’s feet or Bushes feet is a distraction from the truth. It has us battling and name calling over petty issues.

            True?

          • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Bruce D.

            The truth is Mick these people do care about the republic form of government while not fearing at all a democracy. Stupid people mostly vote for those who promise them the most. So a democracy is in their favor along with open borders. Obama is doing every thing he can to undermine America. We do not know who is pulling his strings. He has done everything possible to keep his records a secret.

          • DaveH

            Mick,
            How do you have so much time to make all your comments? Is somebody paying you?

          • Mick for thought

            No DaveH right now I am buying property because the price is on the decline.

          • http://naver samurai

            Mick, the thing you don’t understand that all these catch phrases you talk about are all subject to interpretation. Find the meanings and not just certain phrases. Sometimes what is printed tends to bury or distort the truth.

      • http://naver samurai

        If you don’t like the site, you can just go home. If you read the article, you would see that the author is trying to explain what is, or might be, happening to our country. Yes, I understand the ones that look like they are being paid, but they are on the liberal side of the fence. Your name is mick for thought? I see mick, but I don’t see any thought! Baaaaa! Baaaaa!

      • http://yahoo Upsidedownjack

        Okay, who?

        It does not matter how you “VOTE” it matter’s WHO count’s the VOTE!

      • http://myronjpoltroonian.blogspot.com Myron J. Poltroonian

        And what do all of you think the most valuable metal is going to be in the coming economic collapse? Gold? Silver? Platinum? Nope, there will be nothing so “precious” as – Lead. I presume I do not have to spell it out as to why.

    • Isaac Unglaub

      David, since the educational system is set up to teach you ‘what to think’ not ‘how to think’, I have the following suggestions for you: put your 6-pack and your ice-hockey/football/baseball aside, stop planing which female you’ll chase next Friday and start ‘thinking on your own’, use your time usefully by starting to educate yourself about important things, learn about the past. You may find the solution (on your own). Just don’t waist your time with mindless entertainment, etc., which is designed to keep you docile and unconscious (and spend your money) by the upper echelon of our societies.
      Caesar ones said: ‘give the masses bread and games’…!

      • Ken

        WOW! This is the first time that the evils of beer and sports has been the cause of the decline in society. I’ll admit that if aliens from outer space watched beer commercials, they would either decline to not come here, or easily control us when they do invade. Too many conspiracy theorists here. Educate yourselves to the degree you can, then think for yourself. Use that newfound skill (thinking) to make rational choices. One rational choice is not to think the government is trying to control individuals. The government can’t control itself let alone specific individuals.

        • Mick for thought

          You missed the point. We need to stop doing the stupid distractors and learn the important things.

          • JC

            Mick for Thought!
            You nailed the thought that time! :)

          • JeffH

            Mick…so true

          • don

            Mick, you are a voice of reason.

          • DaveH

            And just what are those important things?

          • http://naver samurai

            We are learning the important things, Mick. We’re not as stupid as you are makimg us out to be. We have learned so much that this year many inccumbent democrats will lose their seats or have already quit. The 2010 elections will show this. It will all come to a head when Obama bin Laden is kick out of office in 2012. Remember, socialism never works! Never has and never will!

      • Al Sieber

        Issac, that was Juvinel, bread and circuses. we have em’…

    • Beth

      The solution is quite simple. Create another fiat money system that is non-taxable. Lincoln and Kennedy were the last to do it. What happened to them is proof that it pisses-off the illumanati.

    • Nino Baldino

      the solution ! is to organize as the enemy has..into study groups,,meet monthly at homes..encourage others to do the same,,when the chapter gets too large break up into smaller ones etc etc..this was started by the John Birch Society back in 1960 and man did they get heat..the communist worker named them number one enemy..for they hate and fear organized resistance..tea party hootin and yellin is fun but nonsense if thats all they do!consider that we live in a occupied country and we are the enemies of the state! live better then most in a moral way..show by example ones values and worth and go for it..expect to be smeared ,we all were and are..but freedom is worth it..

    • john pissed off

      it/s time to over throw the governments of the world through the tool of non-conformance…stop paying your taxes en-mass/ crdeot cards,,,turn your heads away from the two party system,,,break up all too big to fail corps…out law multi national corps…outlaw the two party sstem …desolve the demo & republicain parties becuase they are the same ….just a different face… restore the gold atandard i.e. out law fiat money glovally… desolve the way the government workd and instituat the no confidence boting system by simple majority ..this is why we need more than two parties…

    • http://none Alex

      Teabaggers have no solutions for the problems in the world today. That is why the Right Wing is the Fright Wing. The Left is right and always will be.
      As an aside, Eye bet the mad gunman in Florida today was a Teabagger. Colin Ferguson on the Long Island railroad being the most prominent exception, nearly every crazed gunman is a reactionary racist Second Amendment Tabag moron.

  • http://www.tonisopinions.com Antoinette L. Knowles

    You are wrong. We do know what is going on but it has taken too long to recognize the very dangerous situation. We now know and will use the ballet box to correct it. It will take time but we have done it before and will do it agin.

    • Carol

      Antoinette, what happens when they take the fair ballot away from Americans?

      • sonny

        Carol: You are exactly right. Everyone is betting on the election.
        What if elections are abolished or rigged or bought off thru bribes?
        We all know our thief-in-chief is a master of bribery (and perhaps even threats). I would not put anything past the crooks in the W/H.

        • Mick for thought

          What makes you think this has not happened already. Bush and Florida 2000.

          • JLC

            Here we go again — It’s all Bush’s fault!

          • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Bruce D.

            I do not think you are being truthful by that statement. The counties that had the problems were in South Florida and were controlled by democrats. They made the ballots and were in charge of the voting booths because they were the party in power. Also liberal newspapers did a count like the Miami Herald and all said Bush won. You should try not to promote properganda as it adds to the confusion.

          • Mick for thought

            JLC and Bruce,

            That was an example. How about JFK in the 60s? Is that better? And Bruce it all depends on whose story about the 2000 election you read. Read both sides and you will see that neither one probably touches on the truth. Nope not Blaming Bush. He is just another symptom of the disease.

          • http://yahoo sheilah

            Mick,

            The Democrats are not at all the Democrats that we once knew. They are progressives looking to take over our country and we will be enslaved like all the other third world countries. Is that what you want? If so, then continue to wear the blinders.

          • JC

            I rarely agree with Mick, but there are many indications that electronic voting is and has been susceptible to vote tampering.
            I’m against it myself.

          • Mick for thought

            Sheilah,
            You aren’t following my thought process. This is not a Republican/Democrat issue or a right/left, conservative/liberal issue. The people with money manipulate them all. The only way to intervene is with reform the election system. Stop corporate influence. Make the media provide equal coverage to all candidate. Ron Paul and Ralph Nader would have done better if the media had given them equal time.

          • Vicki

            Facebook and other social networking sites are the solution to the expense of running campaigns.

          • DaveH

            JC,
            Electronic Voting has the ability to be much safer than paper ballots.
            It is in fact our single greatest hope for having reliable and verifiable vote counts.
            We could have two databases for each voting event. One database would store the ‘voter information’ (Identification, address, polling place, etc.). And the other database would store the ‘votes cast’ with a unique alphanumeric ID which was given to the voter at the polling place. The polling place would also be stored on this database to identify problem polling places. Only the voter would know his alphanumeric ID so secrecy would be preserved. The database would be accessible by the public. Anyone or any organization could check the ‘voter information’ database to see if any illegal voters cast votes. The votes in the ‘votes cast’ database could be easily tallied by anyone to see if votes were counted correctly and that the number of votes matched the number of voters in the ‘voter information’ database. Also, an individual voter would be able to check his alphanumeric ID to see that his votes are in the database correctly, and if not, he/she could notify the proper authorities.

          • JC

            Gee Dave H, I don’t know…I guess either way we are put in the position of having to trust those who do the counting.

          • Rob Alexander

            They really don’t need to rig the elections, all they need to do is, via their media:

            A) polarize people into believing the only legitimate parties are Republican and Democrat.

            B) make the people believe the “other” party must be defeated or the world as they know it will end.

            C) convince them that only the candidates they want in office have a chance of defeating the other party.

            Then the whole election becomes a horse race with everyone trying to bet on who can/will win instead of people choosing the best candidate. Yes, the people really are stupid enough to fall for this scam, and they do every election.

          • http://naver samurai

            Why are spineless cowards and traitors like you always jumping on Bush? Remember it was Al Gore that started this “hanging chad” business in Florida. Only 3-5 counties in Florida took part, but was it a surprise that the counties involved were heavily democrat counties? Bush, baaaaa! Florida, baaaaa! Stolen election, baaaaa! Can’t you come up with some newer material than just beating the dead horse?

      • sonny

        Carol: You are exactly right. Everyone is betting on the election.
        What if elections are abolished or rigged or bought off thru bribes?
        We all know our thief-in-chief is a master of bribery (and perhaps even threats). I would not put anything past the crooks in the W/H.
        sfridley46@aol.com

      • Isaac Unglaub

        Carol, a wise man once said: if our votes really would change anything, we would not be allowed to vote anymore!

        Sorry to disillusion you.

        • http://None Bob Hulsman

          With all the rhetoric, political and social, the greatest threat to all our freedoms, as a democratically founded nation, comes from within, and unfortunately, through the organ of an alleged free press and news media constructed to print what they are told, not what the people deserve. I wonder what message, if any, a latter day Paul Revere would caryy if trying to alert a sleeping nation they have already been under attack?

        • Vicki

          Isaac: It is clear from the last election that our vote DOES change things. Unless of course you are asserting that Obama was going to win no matter how we vote.

        • Al Sieber

          Issac, here’s 2- saying about voting: those that vote decide nothing, those that count the votes, decide everything..Joesf Stalin. and, if voting counted it would be illegal. take your pick.

      • don

        Carol, you get the likes of George W. Bush.

        • http://naver samurai

          If all you can talk about is this overused rhetoric about Bush than stay off of the site. Intelligent people only!

          • http://none Alex

            People may ease up on the Bush Crime Family once he apologizes to all who have suffered in his misdirected War on Iraq. Obviously, he has no intention of apologizing to the scores of thousands of Iraqi families who have lost non-combatant loved ones to our bloodlust, but you would think that the Teabaggers would hope for him to beg forgiveness from the families of US military casualties for his stupidity. And then he, Chaney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, et al, as well as the many US soldiers who have murdered innocents, must surrender to the World Court for war crimes prosecution. Then maybe we can stop hammering Bush all of the time.
            The Left is right, and always will be.

      • Vicki

        Carol: We stay on our soap boxes and activate the jury box. One of the big things to use the soap boxes for is to point out the loss of the ballot box.

        Loss of any of the boxes btw is a warning to prepare the forth box. DO NOT OPEN the 4th. The warning is to PREPARE it only.

      • Cheryl

        Amen, sister! We should find out the answer just about the time Obama is up for re-election in 2012. I suspect at that point there will not be a ballot box. On the Friday before Memorial Day the Obama Regime announced the FCC “suggestions” for the “new media”, i.e. a State Run Media. Look it up, folks. It is true.

    • Lawrence Ekdahl

      By 2012 there will be no ballot box.

      • JC

        No? Well if not I’m sure it will be replaced with “something”.
        Like an ammo box for example…

        • http://myronjpoltroonian.blogspot.com Myron J. Poltroonian

          I have said this before, and I’ll say it again: If, at any time, anyone, black, white, green, blue, yellow or brown (shirted), or any shade in between, ever tries to intimidate, delay, dissuade or otherwise harass or prevent me from voting, attending a Tea Party Rally, or worse yet, come into my home to deprive me of my means of defending my God given right to defend me and mine, I’m afraid I’ll have to remind them of the words of the irate Quaker: “Friend. I would not harm thee for the world. However, Thou Art standing where I am about to shoot.”. They will not “Take my gun from my cold, dead fingers”, rather, “Others will take my bullets from their (and/or your) cold, dead bodies.”. Any questions? Note for “Progressives” with “Aggressive Gun Control Disorder” – this means you and any turncoat “Americans” you send to do that which you have not the gónadas to do yourself. “This far and no further” is not just some quaint phrase – it’s a way of life when our freedoms are threatened. Our Constitution is under attack and I, for one, will stand up and defend it. The oath I took when I joined the service: “To Preserve, Protect and Defend the Constitution of the United States of America Against All Enemies, Foreign and Domestic”, placed no limit nor timeframe on my obligations in this matter and I recognize none.

  • CJ

    If it takes more than a productive lifetime to complete the transformation, this implies an outside force overseeing the process. I would offer the transition as a natural, although detrimental, process. Human nature is to be greedy. And it seems that, without an overall guiding principle to continuously go back to (say, like a CONSTITUTION) for reclarification of the better, long run goal, the true objective will be missed. Guess that’s why some are either changing, misinterpreting or flat out ignoring the Constitution. Shows their true intent is NOT for the better of the US. If we don’t keep the greed in check, we get what we deserve.

    • Richard Pawley

      Wasn’t it George Washington who said that our form of government with it’s guiding light, the Constitution, was fit only for a moral people, and that it would not work for any other? This is why the those who support the ideas of Karl Marx, by whatever name, oppose morality in any form, and must oppose the founding fathers. This November’s election will be MORE IMPORTANT than the one in 2012. That is why they are trying to rush through with rubber stamping the tens of millions of illegal aliens, including the 2,000,000 criminals among them, so they can vote in November. If there is not a return to American values in November the 15,000 a month who leave this country each month could grow to a flood but they will be replaced by the 40 MILLION that the Think Tanks say will replace them if the border isn’t fixed FIRST! There are those in both parties who know this and that is why they pass laws but ignore them. We won WWII in less time than it has taken to ARGUE about the border. Stop the flood of rapists (There are over ONE MILLION documented sex crimes by illegal immigrants and the number grows daily but with no morality what difference does it make, right? Quite a few of the rape victims are murdered but Congress just considers that a cost of doing business and the 36,000 highly paid lobbyists in Washington cry their crocodile tears). I don’t know if the USA will survive. There are smarter people than I who believe it will not. Will the Los Angeles Earthquake wake anyone up? Will California become a separate country? Do we have to be reduced to poverty and starvation just to see that we have gone astray? Are there enough praying Christians and Jews to keep Sharia Law from taking over here in 20 years as it seems to be doing in Europe? Do we all hate individual freedom (and with it the necessary responsibility that freedom entails) that we would rather surrender not to a higher power but to a Government that believes it knows better than God? These are the questions we need to answer but if we don’t vote wisely in November, nothing else will matter. Already the insane spending, not of BUSH/OBAMA which the right or the left blame each other for, but of the 110th and 111th Congress, has set in motion what will result in food and fuel tripling in price, but you may not see this right away. The powers that be will do anything they can to keep you from seeing it before November. I do not see how they can keep it from coming about by 2012. Do not be fearful. Stand up for truth, equal justice, and keep at least a month’s food on hand at all times, and vote in NOVEMBER like your freedom depended on it because it may indeed. Dum Spiro Spero!

      • don

        Richard, Will you be the one who will go to China and ask for a trillion dollars so we can order busses to go door to door to gather all the illegals? So your solution is for bigger government and spend and borrow more money?

        • Mick for thought

          Don,
          We have the busses but I do not think anyone has figured out who would do most of the work they leave behind and rent the homes they live in when they are gone.

          • don

            Mick, funny and serious at the same time. What is that called?

        • http://naver samurai

          Don’t forget that China has already loaned out trillions of dollars to the U.S. under this administration and gave Clinton/Gore money for their 1996 campaign. Is Obama bin Laden going to ask for more? Let’s get back to the ways of our founding fathers by overturning healthcare, the U.N. small arms treaty, forbit the cap and trade tax from coming to a vote, abollish the welfare state, etc., if we did all these, we would be able to pay China back what “Osama” has borrowed, support out military better, pay off our national debt, and many other things. These should be our focus points and not the ways of this socialist we have in office. Vote him out in 2012! For God and country!

  • Al Sieber

    It looks like we’re there already. the 10-planks of the communist manifesto are pretty much in place. maybe we have a chance at the ballot box, but ,it could be our last.

    • http://PersonalLiberty Ruby

      I have talked to several people in my community who haven’t even registered to vote. They don’t want to register. I cannot imagine anyone who can give up that easily. We are stronger in numbers. If we would all register and vote. Do your research. Just vote your conscious. Help us save what is left of our freedom.

  • http://PersonalLiberty Ruby

    It all seems to come down to not monitoring our civil liberties due us thru the Constitution. We can’t seem to get anyone to hear us in Washington and get them to stop the oppression of our liberties. It seems most of this should have been stopped and backed up by the Constitution. Who is protecting us? Maybe they haven’t read the Constitution either. We must really pray.

    Thanks for your site.

    • CJ

      We trusted our leaders to lead, but they mis-lead instead. Then some registered to vote without understanding the responsibility, nor reading to find the facts, before they voted. Because we no longer require a basic understanding of our political system before one votes, we have basically given people a license to operate a very powerful machine without proof they can do so safely and effectively. You wouldn’t let someone without training operate a nuclear reactor, why would we let them vote if they don’t understand our government? We need to return to a requirement for an unbiased, non-partisan course in American Government to be successfully completed before someone earns the right to vote. We do that for citizenship requirements for non-native born.

      • Linda

        To this I say AMEN! I worked the polls this past May and had a 19-yr-old girl come to vote. I asked her how she was voting–Republican, Democrat or for just the issues. She was in such a rush and very flustered. She said “Oh I don’t know. Democrat, no wait, Republican.” She was with her father and her father said “Vote Democrat.” So she did. She had no clue what she was to do herself. I also had a man come to me and when I asked him the same question, he said “I’m voting for the school levy because my wife told me to.” How can people vote if they have no clue what or whom they’re voting for? That’s just plain ignorance and stupidity. They are too influenced by the liberal media and don’t do their own political homework. Shame on them!

        • don

          Linda, 90% of the media is owned by the conservatives. Do you think they only listen to the 10%? In Detroit they have 74 conservative radio stations and zero liberal stations, so I could be wrong on the 90-10.

          • JeffH

            don. perhaps you could provide the source of your information. Nobody but a few even want to listen to “liberal” talk radio…Air America ring a bell?

          • don

            Jeff, you proved my point – Air America. The media is conservative.

          • JeffH

            don, the fact is you never had a point to prove. Just the idea that you cannot provide a sourc of your information is proof enough.
            Now run home like a good son should.

          • don

            Jeff, you have been around this site for a long time. People on this site have shown who owns the media and it is not the liberals. For you – you should get a job. I notice you live on this site 12 hours each time it is posted.

          • DaveH

            Don,
            Jeff has always been much more open about his circumstances than any of you Liberals have been. Of course, it wouldn’t do any good if you did state your lifestyles, because I wouldn’t believe you anyway. Liberals are Liars.
            And you say “People on this site have shown who owns the media and it is not the liberals”. What? Is this an example of your logic? This is a site about Liberty. I would hope that non-Liberty lovers (like Liberals) wouldn’t outnumber the Liberty lovers on this site.
            For the 40 years of my adulthood (until Fox came along), the only news to be had in the MSM was Liberal news.
            Liberal Talk Radio can’t survive in this country because their lack of convincing logic dooms them to lose their listeners. The only way for them to survive is for Government to fund them with Taxpayer money.

          • Claire

            And I am a person that does not put much faith in talk radio and the paid entertainers.

          • JeffH

            don, it’s nice to know you monitor my access. It seems that only the liberals I disagree with and expose seem to have a problem with that.
            Unlike some of you, I don’t get paid to do this, I do it because I want to and I certainly have the time when I’m not at the range or enjoying family and freinds.
            What other names do you troll with besides don? The use of a name in lower caps is often an indication of low self esteem or laziness or both. Where do you fit in?

          • don

            Jeff, you are not logical. I have in the past stated that the articles you post contradicts the point/s you try to make. My point right now is that you are not logical. Also, factcheck.org has shown a couple of times that Fox news listeners are the most misinformed viewers about different subjects.

          • don

            Jeff – comments on your post at 8:04. First paragraph doesn’t make sense. You need to be more coherent. On the second paragraph, you mention friends – good for you. Is one of them Alinsky, because it appears you worship him, because you use his principles all the time. Example is your third paragraph. I’m using don instead of Don because their is another Don who often posts.
            Jeff, you need to get a job to help your fellow man in some capacity.

          • JeffH

            don, speaking pure jibberish are you? You have not provided one verifiable fact to any of your comments other than pure jibberish.
            So glad you are concerned about my contributions to society because I’m not the least bit concerned. Point out my contradictions with the facts if you can because you’ve provided nothing but jibberish up to this point.
            See ya wouldn’t want to be ya!

          • don

            Jeff – “See ya, wouldn’t want to be ya” is from the movie, White man Can’t jump,or did they steal this from you? Jeff, I think it was you who wrote Alinsky principles down a while back. I could be wrong. Since I read that article, I notice that every time you disagree with someone, you will use a technique by Alinsky. You have become what you hate. Now, go a head and use an Alinsky principle against me.

          • JeffH

            donny boy, wrong again cause I don’t hate no one, never have, never will…you like the radical’s references huh? Oh yeah, once I heard the references about him I started researching and learning about the Alinsky tactics. Love to expose you hacks and your mis-information.
            The difference is that I post facts, not just mis-information like you do…BIG difference…and I’ll post a link to my sources most often whereas you’ve never backed up any of your jibberish with nothing but more jibberish…

          • http://naver samurai

            Did you ever think that there are so many because that is what the people want to listen to? The libs only seem to talk about bigger government, more welfare, abortion, etc., when are you people going to realize that the program and the libs are unamerican and unconstitutional? Get off of the koolaid! Baaaaa! Baaaaa! Baaaaa!

        • Allan

          Voting has become more difficult because states that have proposed laws, measures, and arguments pro and con are worded in tricky ways. You literally need formal training in logic to decipher them. Secretarys of state are partisan and contribute to this trickery. Very frustrating even for a person who spends the time to read it all. Obamacare was a lawyer’s nuclear weapon dropped on the voters.

      • Isaac Unglaub

        CJ, I totally concur with your statement. My life is run by the masses of un- and undereducated people in regards to politics, because they are voting for people I wouldn’t even dare to bye a second-hand ball pen from (absolutely untrustworthy)! We call that democracy? LOL.

    • Lawrence Ekdahl

      Yes America, Pray. Turn to the only God The Lord Jesus Christ

      • http://naver samurai

        Amen to that, sir! Amen to that!

  • JC

    Another point that could have been added by the author would be:
    “Promote laziness through welfare programs thus creating a class of dependants who’s votes can be counted in advance.”

    • DaveH

      Not just Welfare recipients, JC. You can add to that list Government Employees and sub-contractors who tend also to vote for their pocketbooks rather than for Freedom.

      • don

        Dave, so all people who works for the government are lazy. Are you ever logical?

        • Dan Burke

          Who is your employer? A bank? Wildlife refuge? Public transportation? Farmer? Insurance? Would you vote for a politician that during the campaign told you flat out that they were going to cut your job and jobs in that sector? Or perhaps they had a history of cutting your job from your industry in prior legislation and you knew it, would you still vote for them? Perhaps. Maybe you would do like those rich media personalities from movies, television, and music that tell us how great socialism is but when the taxes come due they will relocate their business/residence. So what was said that government employees are bound to vote for select politicians? Does it mean that they are lazy. Perhaps. Or, better yet, whether they are lazy or not, many of them don’t have the freedom to just up and relocate if their job is threatened, so put food on their table and shelter over their head, they must not vote for politicians that talk of “small” government. Lazy or not, they are can be just as much a slave to the state as those who are on welfare.

      • JC

        Don, generally speaking, Dave H is right. Why would anyone in government have any incentive to be productive? Their jobs are protected by unions and they aren’t really expected to produce anything anyway. Government in and of itself produces absolutely nothing of any real value. In fact if they did produce anything it would be too expensive to buy, what with all the waste involved, it would never arrive on time, what with all the bureacracy involved, and it would be produced by people you wouldn’t hire anyway.

      • Norm

        DaveH
        All people who don’t work for government are paragons of morality and goodness?
        We can all trust the benevolance and good intentions of the private sector. In your dreams.

  • http://danny Dannyboy

    AMERICA THE CONQUERED—America has been conquered all ready—– beeee beeee

  • mary schaffer

    you are all right-winged NUTS!!! It is YOU all who have contributed to the demise of our governement and economy for not comprehending WHERE and HOW corporate GREED is fully responsible for our demise. The governement owns their responsibility because they are in the pockets of the corporations in order to fund their campaigns and elections. WHEN will we citizens WAKE UP!!!!????

    • CJ

      Mary, sorry, but you’re the brainwashed one. You can’t spend your way out of trouble. You CAN’T tax a people into submission. Human nature is to resist control. Every law written makes for creativity on how to avoid it. You need to look at your ideals and compare them to socialism. You’ll find they are nearly identical. We ARE waking up and seeing liberalism is KILLING our freedoms. If someone’s “greedy” nature isn’t making the money to pay the taxes with, just where do you think it will come from to support your lazy lifestyle? I guess that “greed” that made this country the greatest in the world, and the socialism that crippled others was just a fluke. I’d say you are the one to WAKE UP and look at history.

      • Doug Y

        CJ,

        Hate to say it but you are both right. Dems and repubs are doing nothing but keeping you voting along party lines while they laugh at your own misunderstanding of the issue all the way to the bank. Now the corporate “greed” machine has moved into the global domain and is ready to destroy you and America at the drop of a hat for nothing more than their own profits. To keep you dumb, there is a two party system which “gives” you someone to point the finger at so you will agree with the other side. Divide and conquer. Unfortunately, the dumbing down of America has worked so well that 90 percent of you know more about the American Idol contestants than your own local politicians, so both of you continue to be dumb enough to point the finger at the rats on the other side. A rat is a rat no mater what color hat he is wearing. They are working together to destroy our country.

        • CJ

          Doug, everybody has greed. Deal with it. If someone doesn’t want to learn how to play the “greed” game, they will surely loose every time. The big “greedy” corporations have made products the little “greedy” guy wants. Problem is, the little guy doesn’t know how the game is played and whines when his greedyness fails, blaming the “big greedy” guy. If the little guy wants to win, learn to play the game.

          • Claire

            When it comes to America’s government, there should be no game playing. Same with voting. I am sick of the underhanded dealings of all politicians.

          • don

            CJ, greed takes away from our liberties. Greed is the opposite of being fair. We need justice, not greed. When someone has insurance, then is denied in order to make more money for insurance companies, this becomes greed. When you call Mary lazy, why are you not working at this time?

          • DaveH

            For sure, Don, CJ should not be calling Mary lazy (unless he knows her well and personally). But Corporations cannot force us to buy their products without being backed up with the force of Government. As Government Grows, Corruption Flows. If you don’t like abiding by the Insurance Contracts then don’t buy Insurance. I don’t and haven’t for 40 years (except that which the Government forces me to buy). And wow, here I am. I have survived without Insurance. Go figure.
            And before you accuse me of putting others in danger, I submit that the people who support the concept of insurance have put the population in danger because it costs money to employ all those middle-men. That is money that could have been used to feed the poor (by unforced charitable contributions) instead of being wasted on the meddlesome middle-men.

          • Claire

            Mary has a right to her opinion. Everyone on this site is giving theirs….

          • don

            Dave,how many oil companies sell most of the oil that is changed into gasoline? I heard 4 or 5. Most of us are dependent on this oil. There is no one around to say no to them when they raise the price. A lot of us can’t afford a hybrid. Vehicles that are the same size as a hybrid cost less. In most coummunities that people live in are at the mercy of the power companies. Most of us can’t afford to set up solar, wind, or even a wood burning stove. I feel these companies are just as bad as big government.

          • Norm

            DaveH
            If you need a heart transplant don’t go to Medicaid because I don’t want to pay for it. By the way, don’t you have Medicare?
            I’m not a poor guy but I still believe in Insurance. My wife and I even have long term term healthcare (nursing home etc.) and will very very likely never be on welfare.

      • eddie47d

        CJ, “Human nature is to resist control” and so true. Both sides play that game and I’ve seen people take both sides of an issue if they don’t like someone or an issue. We all know how the Vietnam War started and how we were lied to. When anti-war protesters resisted control they were called commies and traitors and the government deepened the lies. That war lasted more than 13 years and we still get into those kinds of situations.

        • http://naver samurai

          If you read your history, you’ll see those protesters did more to harm the war effort, along with that traitor Jane Fonda, than anything the enemy did to us. The liberal media did tons of damage too. If you want to know more, read a book called: “The Politically Incorrect Guide to the Vietnam War.” It may open you eyes a bit.

    • Mark

      Mary, Mary … drinking the Obama kool-aid??? Why do lefties always whine about corporate greed? When Hillary Clinton says she wants rich people to pay more taxes, why does no one call that government greed?
      Did you know as og 2006 the top 1% of income earners paid 40% of the income garnered through the income tax? The bottom 50% only paid 3%
      IF the government IS in the pockets of corporations, how is that not government greed? I mean if the govt. WASN’T being “greeeeeedy” then why subjigate itself to corporations? I suppose that explains why America has the second highest corporate tax rate in the world, huh?
      And since it WAS the government which imposed the “Community Reinvestment Act” upon the banking community — twisting their arms to extend loans to those who could never repay them — then it was, in fact, the GOVERNMENT which is responsible for the huge bolus credit shock that expanded through our economy and TKO’d it! Thank you Jimma Cahtah and Slick Billy Clinton!

      • CJ

        Mark, Mary fails to acknowledge EVERYBODY has greed. It was the greed of the ones who bought into the scam set up by the government for low cost loans and didn’t want to acknowledge the risk who lost. Los Vegas is full of the same type of people. They have a dream of get-rich-quick, thinking they’ll win. Or take lottery players. It’s all the same animal, educated people knowing how the game of greed is played and the uneducated who think there is a shortcut to riches. The uneducated just whine when they loose, claiming it was unfair.

        • Chaos Factor

          Mark .. I think it’s you that been indulging in the Kool-aid drinking….

          • Mark

            Wonderfully gratuitous assertion there, “Chaos Factor.” Not supported by even one iota of evidence. Or I guess we call that “hit and run” on the internet. ;-)

      • Mick for thought

        Even though stooped to name calling you missed the point. She said the government is in the corporate pocket. Did you see her only Republicans or Conservatives.

        • Mark

          If government was truly “in the pocket” of the government, I should think they could easily twist some kongresskritter arms to get the corporate tax rate (2nd highest on planet after Japan’s) lowered!!!

          Certainly there is “collusion” of sorts between corporations and govt.
          It’s been said that the corporations donate to democrats in hopes that they won’t pass more restrictive anticapitalistic laws, and they give to repubs so they will try to get rid of existing anti corporate laws.
          Maybe that’s cynical, but what this really is, is this:

          IT IS CALLED POWER.

          Some wag once quiped “all actual governments are corrupt.”
          Yes, that is true. Maybe simplistic, pithy, or whatever, but true.
          And it will remain true. You could put Mother Teresa in charge, and it would still be true.
          This is why our founders were smart — they realized that small government was better and less destructive of liberty than big brother government …. which, unfortunatly, it seems both parties now indulge in.

          • Claire

            Mark–I agree with your post, especially your last sentence.

    • PragmaticSort

      Mary, those poor greedy corporations and the jobs they produce are getting taxed right out of our country. We have the highest corporation taxes in the world so they are relocating to other countries that will let them make money. Do you have a clue how profound a 5% difference in taxation affects their bottom line? Not all corporations enjoy the margins that oil companies make. Labor unions can kill the profitability of an otherwise sound corporation too.

      Remeber, one of the jobs lost to those greedy corporations moving out of our country due to taxation may be your own or someone you know. Personally, I feel our government needs to slap a hefty tarrif on all imported good so it would once again be profitable to produce goods here. The global economy is not what our forefathers had in mind when they created our country. We are far from the self-sufficient nation they wanted to create and the left keeps pushing us farther into dependence on those we dont really need.

      Keep up the good work lefties- keep killing babies, promoting immorality, dumbing us down intellectually and finacially to your lowest common denominator. Keep electing elitists like Nancy and Harry who dont give a darn what you think and create bills and vote to pass bills that the majority of Americans disagree with. Their personal socialist agendas are all that matter to them. Hey, why dont you check out Queen Pelosi’s new jet! Its all funded by our tax dollars! The dont call donkey’s jack-a$$es for nothing!

      • Chaos Factor

        Prag… Your clueless… those poor poor companys that Got those Bush /Reagan tax cuts repaid America by moving out of America … Take Haliburton…they got nobid contracts from Bushie in Iraq and tax cuts …how did they repay America ?.. They moved to the UAE….you dont seem to get it….they only got more greedy…they have never ” ever” let profits ” trickle down” to the middleclass…instead they ship jobs to countrys where they can get cheap labor…all while getting tax cuts….I won’t tax cuts for companys that keep jobs here .. That’s insentive… Reward companys that benifit Americans… Not companys that get tax breaks then give America the shaft…

        • Mick for thought

          CF You are correct.

        • Doug

          Ever heard of the stock market?? If you have somewhat of a brain you buy good corporations and make money! That my friend is how the middle class make money buy into good corporations!

          • Mick for thought

            You do not by corporations. You buy liitle tiny pieces that powerful people control.

          • DaveH

            Mick,
            Everybody has to start somewhere. Those little pieces, if picked wisely, can add up to big pieces in time.
            If you know anything about investing, you know that Government has made stocks more dangerous for the small investor in the last 40 years, not less dangerous.
            Of course those in Corporate leadership will angle for feathering their own nest. They can only get away with it if government is Big and confusing to the average citizen. If you truly fear Big Corporations, then you should be voting for smaller government, not larger government. Government actually (whether intentionally or not) aids those Corporate officers who wish to defraud their shareholders. We need to get back to a few simple rules that are enforced rigorously and fairly. That isn’t going to happen with Big Government.

          • Mick for thought

            Yes, I know stocks have more than a few. Buy low, sell high p researching your stock. I know when I buy stocks I am researching the quality of the company and it’s ability to manage themselves. I don’t want them managing my government or my life.

            PS I am not going to buy gold when it is at an all time high. Sure it may go up some more but have you read the terms that you sell it back under. You can loose your shirt.

          • don

            Doug, I agree with you on this one, but you need to do this yourself. Join an online trade company like Scottrade. Buy around 5 companies that you think are good. As you know you have to research these companies. When the market start to go down, you can move all your money into what they call an account. This account is like a savings account that gives you a little interest. When the market starts to go up, move your money back over to these good companies and ride it out until the market starts to dip. Each move over will cost you 5 to 10 dollars per company. So when the market goes into, say a 3 month drop, you have your money into an account not losing anything except for inflation, but if your money is with an investment firm, you will be losing thousands, because they are always in a “hold” position. You will be making close to 100% profit each year minus taxes and inflation. I don’t look at it as a percent, but 1000 for every 1000 I have in it. The bad thing about it, it will take time. I am fortunate that I can look at a computer every so often at work during my breaks and lunch. You can start with about 200, but some companies might want you to start with more.

        • http://naver samurai

          CF, are you forgetting that Haliburton got its start down this road in Bosnia, not Iraq? Who was the fool in the White House then?

      • eddie47d

        Pragmatic,”jobs getting taxed right out of this country”. If that were true there wouldn’t be any jobs in any Socialist country (Europe’s high tax).There would be 100% unemployment with your way of thinking. Cheap labor is what America’s corporations want and they will leave to get it. Even if it destroys the Middle Class for the tax burden falls on us if they leave.

        • JeffH

          …a lot of learning could be had here…if one wanted to learn…

    • Mick for thought

      Good points Mary but yelling at the deaf does not make them hear.

    • Lawrence Ekdahl

      You are half right. The fachist government and large corporations are in bed together.

      • Mick for thought

        So, the last government administration was not in bed with the corporations. Really?

        • http://naver samurai

          Well, this administration in up to its !@#$%^& with BP oil and Wall Street. Just a look at Obama bin Laden’s cabinet and czars is enough evidence of this fact.

        • Lawrence Ekdahl

          Your right. It has been that way since F.D.R.

    • JC

      We comprehend it very well, all the way back to Hamilton, the Bank of The United States and Hamilton’s rich cronies who did very well by that bank. Jackson shut it down for a while, but it was finally and forcefully reinstated in 1913. We wrongly call it the Federal Reserve.
      Have a nice day Mary.

      • don

        JC – give examples.

        • Don

          Read it again, that was the example.

        • JC

          Good Lord man…entire volumes have been written on the subject.
          If you are truly interested do some reading.
          The History of Banking in the United States.
          Hamilton’s Curse
          The Creature From Jekyll Island

          And on and on…

    • Cheryl

      Ms. Mary,

      Has a poor man ever given you a job?

      • don

        Yes, a small business. Half of small businesses go under, therefore a lot of them are poor. They do provide jobs.

        • JC

          well half of them do…apparently the other half just go under..
          Why?

    • Allan

      Well then, if you believe the government is the hapless puppet of corporations, why not support less government, which would mean less opportunity for outside interference?

      Truth is, if you passionately support something like obamacare, or sweeping cap and trade legislation, you’re going to vote for the representatives who support it, regardless of what they’re doing on the side.

      It’s a balanced ecosystem in which you, politicians, companies, non-profits, etc. all operate on self-interest. And to satisfy yourself, you blame one group or the other. All groups are composed of individuals with self-interest.

    • Leonard Seitz

      When will citizens wake up to the fact that Oil, big business, Unions, banks, etc., have the government in their pockets with campaign contributions? ? ? ? Never! ! ! Citizens are in the governments pocket with SS, MEDICARE, Welfare, Food Stamps, etc.
      They are dependent on the government for existence. Why work when they can collect what they claim “they deserve”! ! ! ! Yes, it’s time people woke up, not only to government corruption, but to their own corruption. That is why Obama was elected. He promised “change” and all those receiving handouts voted for him. They wanted more and we are getting that, in the form of a Socialist take over of our government. Want to live under Communism or Socialism? ? ? ? Go to Russie or Cuba or China. I don’t like where we are headed and it’s time for people to reclaim our democratic government! ! ! !!

    • http://www.ozanneministry.com David Ozanne

      When they finally make this a communist nation, you may wake up. I have lived where they had what you want and they do not want it there any more.

    • Tom from Colorado

      If a politician does not represent his constituents wishes then he/she is dishonest and should be relieved of their duties. It seems that we have become immune to the fact that most compaign promises are never realized.

    • Jack Pierce

      Mary, Mary quite contrary. Mary, when I hear folks like you with this attitude, and I speak with them, almost 100% of the time, you are a very typical person who has not been taught or forgets, that with freedom comes responsibility. So I have to ask what has given you this raunchy attitude about the greatest county in the World? My guess is, is that you are one of those who blames large corporations because you are probably way over your head in debt(by your own decisions in life). And hence not wanting to take responsibility for your own actions. If you were debt free and knew that you don’t have to run out and spend money like a rock star your attitude would be different. If you knew to teach your children and there children, that just because a department store or bank is willing to lend you money for luxuries, not necessaties that you hurry down there to get it, and then when they want thier payment with some interest that you agreed too, then all of a sudden you are the victim and they are bad. Bottom line Mary, live within your means and your attitude will improve, and maybe you will realize that you live in the Greatest country in the world and not take it all for granted.

    • http://www.kjnf.net Jim Fridas

      Yes Mary when will you wake up?!!! We on the right have been awake but the left has been in charge for over fifty years and again in the congress who is in charge the lefty loones of America a. k. a. the socialist who hate democracy liberty and a free society that is why Hillary and Obama have signed on to the U. N. hand gun treaty to take our guns away by going around the constitution like little people with little minds would do, get the picture Mary not right wing nuts left wing traitors, that is what Lincoln warned us about.

    • mac

      Mary! Mary! who let you out of your cage at the wackey farm. I invite you to go out unto the world and LEARN

    • http://www.tonisopinions.com Antoinette L. Knowles

      The real problem has been the lazy voter. We went through the motions only. The arrogant, greedy, stupid professional politicians have been our reward. Frankly, I am tired of the MINORITY telling me how to raise my children, what history is to discarded or changed and the poor illegals who come to reap the benefits of our country. I am even more tired of the United Nation and their holy attitude toward this Nation with help from busybodies.

    • Robin, Arcadia, IN

      Mary Shaffer… I was a left wing idiot for years. Or at least I thought I was. I didn’t pay much attention to politics. My parents were democrats, so I guess I should be one, too. Wow… Time to grow up and see that all those years I thought I was a democrat, I really wasn’t when it came to actually looking at what the two parties stood for. I feel like I am born-again becoming a Republican. The difference is that incredible! Do you really like what the left wing agenda? If so, why? I am opposed to abortion, raising taxes, and unions. Tell me what is good about those 3 things and why I should be for them. I don’t think you can come up with a good logical argument. I would never kill a baby. Raising taxes only affects those who it is supposed to help. And unions overstepped their bounds decades ago. They started out okay and had a purpose, but greed stepped in and the purpose was no longer on the radar. I could go on, but why bother. You have your mind made up….

    • Capitalist

      I am glad that even those who disagree with the editor are taking the time to read this website. Your post is well written and you are obviously an educated person.

      While the details to fixing sociopolitical ills can be complicated, the underlying premise is not. What is required is to provide the proper incentives, at the individual level, to create wealth / achieve desired goals. Few would argue that a truly disabled person is deserving of public assistance. However our government has gone way too far in “assisting” otherwise able bodied and minded people to avoid contributing anything to society. The only thing these people do is counter the efforts of those that do make a contribution. I recently read a study which concluded that a person on welfare had a lifestyle equivalent to someone making $25000 per year. So we incent people to turn down jobs paying $12/hour. We must make the test for reciept of welfare much more difficult.

      Similary, a lot of our issues are self created. For example, on immigration, if we incented the people on welfare to work, there would be competition for $12/hour jobs and less demand for immigrant workers. If we limited citizenship to those who obtain such in a legal manner, and then we provide the benefits of citizenship only to citizens and not to illegal immigrants, anchor babies and the like, the public finances are not strained by those who are not entitled to its benefits. (If I truly had my preference, we would expel the people on welfare and keep the immigrants. They work for a living).

      I dont dispute that there are numerous corporate interests being served by the government. Dont fool yourself though. This happens regardless of the party in power. In my opinion, the “Tea Party” is about fixing both wrongs; corporate pork and individual waste.

      Since local governments are more closely monitored, the first step should be to return any function that can be achieved locally to that level. We dont need the federal government to tax us so that they can give the money to the local police department. Let the local government raise and spend money at the local level where it can be better spent and not pass through a bunch of costly federal red tape.

      The things I write above are the essence of the difference between conservative and liberal. Conservatives believe in people achieving for themselves and the overall benefit of society. Liberals believe that everyone is the same, due the same lifestyle the specifics of which the government dictates. With the changes that have happened in China and Russia, the United States is now much more communist than the average country. (Perhaps Cuba, N. Korea, are moreso, but the difference is diminishing every day that Obama’s incompetent administration is in office. He is a communist in dem clothing. Kennedy and Truman are rolling in their graves)

    • George Halepis

      What exactly are you proposing, if anything? This is precisely why the engine of coercion-i.e., GOVERNMENT-must be bound by the chains of the Constitution, as the Founders advised. Without the connivance of the politicians, the corporate elite would be powerless to foist the fascist system under which we now suffer.

    • http://Director1182@myfairpoint.net Bigguy2

      When all Democrats and RHINO republicans are voted out of office for good! YOur right about the corporations putting us where we are but you forget it was BOTH parties that brought us to the “dance!”
      How does it feel America? Competeing with $1.00/day labor!

    • brandon humphrey

      I really can’t figure out where your coming from?

    • Fernando Lavin

      Shaffer, we will wake up when “the One” in the WH stops being a hypocrite saying one thing on teleprompter and doing another under the cover of night, and on Fridays evening…
      He is against Corporations? Okay, is he willing to return the billions of dollars he received from them to boost his campaign? Of course NOT!!!
      In other words: he owns his soul to the very people he “pretends” to criticize on TV. His “transparency” is sooooo transparent that the American people are starting to see the truth.
      Who is NUTS, We The People, or you the brainwashed blind folks of the left?
      FLavin

    • Rob Alexander

      No, Mary, the problem is government, and people like YOU who believe in it and support it.

      Corporations have no power without government backing them. Government installs regulations which are written by, and therefore benefit the largest corporations, to the detriment of everyone else; and it creates laws and regulatory agencies that claim to protect the consumer, but mostly have the effect of lulling the consumer into a false sense of security where he does not bother to do his own due-diligence.

      Corporations cannot force you to buy a product or use a service… if we feel like we’re getting screwed by them, we can stop buying from them.

      But the real problem is people like you who want what the corporations sell, but on YOUR terms, and believe the government can/will force YOUR terms on these corporations – stupidly buying into the fallacy that YOU somehow have more influence over the regulators than the corporations do… And so you get the regulations you unwittingly ask for, that favor the corporations and give them power.

    • will

      Government doesnt make a product so all the money they have is ill gotten gain. Most companies earn their money through hard work and should be hailed as heroes.

    • LocalYokle

      You’re dead right Mary but you forgot to offer plan A, B, C, etc. Look past the greed of corporations. They just buy ignorant politicians as part of the purchase of both major parties.
      Behind corporations are the international bankers and the super rich that already own 85% of total world wealth. They can and do arrange to make offers that can’t be refused to whistle blowers on a daily basis. Check out the attendees of their latest annual gathering in Spain and ask yourself why is the US government represented there? Notice that they meet to adjust strategies more often than you vote. Search: Bilderberger or Jim Tucker. You’ll find both flooded with look look-a-likes.
      Now can you understand a right wing or any other individual that has started to feel their back against the wall?
      Your enthusiasm is appreciated but being uninformed puts one on a risky path. Hint: The network media IS NOT your friend and don’t count solely on November events to solve all your problems. Plans are in effect to get positive vote count by all means necessary.

    • Marc Jeric

      Private corporations are the only guarantee of personal freedom we have: if you do not like one you can go work for another, or better yet you can establish you own; when the government owns everything you have only one employer – and there is no way out. I should know, having escaped from a communist hell 53 years ago.

    • http://none Glenda

      I am one of those conservatives and believe we should follow the laws and the Constitution to the letter!! Bush was not perfect but he was so much above Obama he needs a crown!!I would 10 times take Bush over Obama. He didn’t force health care, nor did he try to stuff anything down our throats as Obama is trying. I do wish we could some way get rid of him before he ruins us as a nation. Our nation did well when God was in the picture And prayer was a national duty. God will help a nation which loves him. Most of you do not. I pray to him everday for help. Will he answer< I hope before Obama sells us to the United Nations and Mexic.

    • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Randy

      Wake up is right, I suggest you do that. You think the problem is ‘Corporations’ funding politicians’ campaigns in order to get favors in return when the politician gets elected. By the time Obama and the ‘Democrats’ get through, there won’t be any ‘Corporations’ left that are not owned or run by the government. Then the incumbents
      will never have to leave office with the help of those corporations, as you seem to think elects them, until they die or get tired enough to retire. Mean while these evil rich entepreneurs that Obama and the ‘Democrats’ are getting ready to tax out of the country, will bid us all farewell and take their capital, know how, and ability to create jobs overseas to prosper under foreign governments that won’t berate them and rob them blind to support government socialist programs. Then the only people who will have jobs will be government workers. The only problem with this is that there won’t be a tax base to pay the government workers or the socialist programs either. In case you didn’t know it, those right-wing nuts that you disdain, are the entepreneurs that don’t get the credit they deserve for creating the jobs that the ‘American Citizens’ use to enjoy, but because of the demonizing and extortion by the ‘Unions’ and the over-
      regulations and excessive taxes by the ‘Democrats’ and Obama, they have moved their factories and the jobs out of our country to a place where they are appreciated. So all you ‘Liberals’, keep up the good work, but learn to create your own jobs and see how you like supporting the socialistic programs that you’ll be taxed for. The old ‘American Spirit’ of self-reliance is gone and now we want the government to support us and thats just how Obama and the ‘Democrats’
      like it.

    • John Buoye

      Dear Mary:

      We are, each one of us, unique. Making statements such as you have made belies a level of ignorance that should be remedied by taking a deep inward look at yourself. Try to ferret out those misguided beliefs you are holding on to. Then, there may be some hope for you.

    • http://publius-publius2008.blogspot.com Publius

      Reviewing the comments and replies here: Mr. Wise does NOT live up to his name.

    • Lee

      I say to you the same thing I told Paul. You have been badly informed by someone in your life to turn against your most precious possessions—your country, your freedom, and your honor!

      Like Paul and others who feel our country is wrong in every way, please leave and move to Afganistan, Iran, China or North Korea. I am sure they would enjoy your rhetoric.

    • Keith

      Mary, mary, greed drives people to open businesses. Greed drives people to make money. Greed reaps great profits. In a nut shell, greed is the reason we have jobs in this country. Take away the greed and by default, you take away the standard of living, you take away the jobs and many other things. Take away the incentive for profit and you take away the reason to sell your wares here.

    • http://carlrizor@yahoo.com Carl W.Rizor

      The only one who is NUTS is the edit who wrote this.
      This nation will not become anything other than a Freedom Loving Nation.
      We the People still hold all the power and at any time, can remove any one or group of people who try to destroy this country.

    • Richard Pawley

      This is why we have one last chance to save this country and it IS NOT in 2012. If we elect all new people, not old bought and sold Democrats, and not old bought and sold Republicans, but people who truly care about the Constitution, Freedom, Individual Liberty, Equal rights (not the ‘social rights’ of Marxism) and whose beliefs are similar the those who founded this country then we may have a chance at saving the United States of America from the dust bin of history. Our out-of-touch and out-of-control Congress must be changed. The price of food and fuel is going to triple because of the insane amounts they have already spent – that can not be changed – although I’m not sure when this will happen. One of the sources I mentioned in my latest book believe we have less than 36 months. Our nation is broke just as the world is broke but if we can find new people of honor who are not tied to the old party line of either party but who believe in the Constitution and not unlimited, intrusive government, then we have a chance in November at keeping things from getting much worse. Those who believe in God can pray for his enlightenment and help at what is best for this country. Without that we don’t have much of a chance either. If the USA goes down the tubes in the coming decade where else in the world can people go?

    • Bob

      Mary, you are right about our Senators and Representatives being in the pockets of Corporations; please open up your mind and realize that these are choices that your reps made on their own, they were not forced by the Corporations, they CHOSE to do what they are doing for their own benefit. Why blame the corporations for what the gov’t reps CHOSE to do ??
      The longer a politician stays in Washington with this power the more likely they are to become corrupt.
      The solution is to get rid of career politicians and reduce the power of the Federal Government, promote personal liberties..

    • Big G

      Reply to Mary Schaffer

      Why do you act so foolish and assume “right wing nuts”= corporate support? If you were wise you would find an ally amongst your enemies instead of further dividing your countrymen. Besides that right turning wingnuts make good counterparties to left turning loose screws and can make a tightly joined piece of equipment while locked in a firm embrace. :-)

      George

    • http://msn Jake

      Education is the only answer I can see that will help this nation come out of this situation. Since the government has everything to do with what is taught in the public school system, there is not going to be any “awakening”. From grade school through higher education in the universities – it is all about socialism.
      Good question – how can we wake up the American People to what its government is doing to them?

    • John

      I dont understand why American patriots are still trying diplomacy with this non-government. Our supposed representatives are the puppets and the corporations are the puppeteers. Our factories are exported while our workforce is imported-H1 and H2b programs. These maggotts are destroying this great lady while laughing in our faces. My state of California is overrun with illegal aliens stealing the American dream as the third world toilet progresses and businesses leave the state. When all the rich taxpayers leave this liberal toilet, California will become mexico and all the ignorant illegals will wonder what happened to all da money. I would leave this state if my family was not so entrenched here. There is a very dark cloud on the horizon and it hovers above all those who have dissrespected all that our soldiers have died for. There is a reason for the 2nd amendment and it will reveal its true worth in the days to come. Too many Americans have ignored what made this country what it used to be and greed is the culprit. If you cant make your business profitable without illegal alien workers, then you damn sure shouldnt be in business. Hang every illegal alien employer in town square and see what happens with illegal immigration! Nuff said, ’till next time, clean your firearm!

  • Robin from Arcadia, IN

    We need to know what candidates are active in the New World Order. This includes those running for the first time! Our country is on a very slippery slope. It’s happening right in front of us! Anyone who is not voting, needs to be encouraged to vote. Voting out the corrupt and a lot of prayer is our only hope!

    • Mick for thought

      Which ones Arcadia?

      • Robin, Arcadia, IN

        Mick… Google New World Order… There are as many from both parties on the list…

  • Michel

    Excellent Article… Thanks.

    One important fact to realize is that without people who obey orders without questioning … the current plan will Fail.

    So it is important to educate police officers and military personnel.

    Of course… there is coming a day very soon when drones-robots will replace police and military personnel… hopefully things will change before then.

  • CONSERVATIVE AT BIRTH

    Unfortunately, it has been happening off and on for over 100 years. We need to establish an intelligence test to vote, and only allow taxpayers to vote. We shoul not allow ignorant welfare recipiants to vote themselves my assets. I have contributed (including my employers contributions) over $ 500,000.00 to F.I.C.A. If I contribute no more over the next four and 1/2 years it will take me 14.88 years to recoup that amount without interest, making me 80 years old. What are my chances. Jimmy Carter increased the Contributions for my generation to the so called “Social Securtiy”, as we had to put in more for our future because there would not be enough workers to support the system. Why could they not simply make a law requiring a tax deferred savings account for Retirement and Medical expenses, that would still be mine no longer how long I lived?
    I will tell you why. It is a slush fund to buy votes from the ignorant. Which is why no one on S.S.I. or any form of welfare should be allowed to vote period!

    • John W

      “CAB” you have nailed a big obvious, amen to “Which is why no one on S.S.I. or any form of welfare should be allowed to vote period!”

      • PragmaticSort

        No doubt about it. They only contribute more of their own to grab more free money and to continue the cycle. No way they should be able to vote. Will be interesting to see what new form ACORN takes on in 2012.

        • Mick for thought

          Next thing we know you will be rounding up all the people on welfare and disability income and putting the in concentration camps, sterilizing them and using them for slave labor.

          Look at the fun I am having twisting your words. That gets done by both sides in this room and it accomplishes nothing. The focus here is so narrow you cannot see the forest through the trees.

          • DaveH

            Mick,
            I rarely see you make any substantive comments. Maybe, you could change your ways and lead the rest of us.

          • Mick for thought

            Just trying to steer a little right now.

          • http://naver samurai

            No, but getting them off of welfare and into a job would be good. Then the government wouldn’t spend so much money on unconstitutional programs and the average American may be able to better feed their families. For God and country!

          • John

            We still have trees???

        • AngryAmerican

          Social security was supposed to be voluntary and if you paid in you could receive something monthly when you retire. That all gradually got changed by the liberal politicians so they began barrowing from it because they said there was so much excess that we didn’t need it in S.S. and they started giving it away to anyone that was 65 wither they had paid in or not, giving it away to anyone who needed any type entitlement or social giveaway and any type of pork spending they could get away with all the wile trying to buy the Uneducateds vote. Then after years of doing this they began seeing that S.S. was going broke so the same politicians decided to create them self’s a separate retirement system and also stopped paying any of there money into S.S. Then making ours non voluntary any more and started raising the amount we paid in almost yearly so that they could keep giving it away to anyone that had there hand out. If they would have never have taken from S.S. there would have been no need to raise the amount we pay in and they would not be talking about it going broke. Now there talking about that if you are drawing it now or will start to draw it in the next 3-5 years you will more than likely get it but any one after that better start planning for something else because you won’t get anything from S.S. I still say take away the retirement and medical plan that the politicians get and use the money to shore up our S.S. and medical plan and put them on the same plan as us, they are just regular people and they do work for us.

    • don

      Conservative, it has been shown on this site a couple of times that corporate welfare is 3 times higher than public welfare. They use the IRS statistics from the Bush’s administration. Thus, if you represent big business as your post stated, I woder how much welfare you are receivng?

      • DaveH

        Can you cite references to back up your comment?

        • don

          Dave, your friend eyeswideopen gave the link a couple of times. It is from the same source that you use when you state that a good majority of people don’t pay taxes. I don’t save sources like you do.

  • http://www.lostnation.blogspot.com Jeryl D

    We do need to vote, we do need to put the right people in office, and we do need to be constantly vigilant and watch for incursions on our rights. But, in the long run, there will be a one-world government that is socialistic in its entirety. There will still be the greedy elite corporate fat cats and freedom will be a thing of the past. It has to happen to bring us to the end of time. But, it’s an exciting, though dangerous, time.

    • CJ

      Jeryl, how do we put the right people in office if they don’t run? Our elections are more about eliminating the worst of the contestants, and less about putting the right person in. We HAVE to elect someone, it’s just all the choices are bad!

      • sonny

        Even if “good and intelligent, qualified people” were to run, America would be to stupid to elect them. Sarah Palin is very qualified but would she get elected if she were to run?? NO!!! The stupid people are too busy worshipping Obama.

        • http://naver samurai

          Here, here!

    • Mick for thought

      Ancient Chinese curse, “May you live in interesting times.”.

      • Don

        We are seriously getting cursed nowadays.

  • Frank the Libertarian

    Inform one person at a time to the truth of one aspect of this.
    I personally “open the can of worms” by informing people about the Private Bank the Federal Reserve. That simple planted seed has awakened many friends, family & associates. Its a ‘non-emotional”, non political ‘entry’ issue that ultimately leads to everything else listed.

    • Doug Y

      Excellent Frank, I do the same thing… After the dumbfounded look on their face dissipates, they usually come back with so many questions its unreal… Good job, keep spreading the word.

      End the FRAUD, End the FED… Then we can fix the rest of this mess.

      • Frank the Libertarian

        The way to unstrangle is to untangle the money. Its the Tip of the Iceberg, and it affects every American, right wing-left wing-liberal-gay, straight every dang American suffers because of it. I would be willing to bet everything I own that were we to abolish the FED and establish sound monetary policies & limits..90% of the problems we experience in the US would begin deflating to levels that would barely raise a squeak.
        Until our money has limits, there is no limit to the cancer of corruption eating away at US.

    • JC

      Good appraoch Frank. I’m coming from the same spectrum you are and I’ve found that that approach works very well.

  • Paul D.

    We have let the school,public schools, take over the minds of our kids for to long. Most people have no idea about the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Every time a law is past an other freedom is gone. We have a new group of people who only look to Washington for answers. We need to teach our kids and family members the Constitution and the Bill of Right and about the Founders and who thy really were. It isn’t being done in public school so we need to take the time and do it at home .Turn of the TV and spent time to do this and find out the truth about what is happening and what we are loosing before it is to late and we wake up and say what happened. We the People need to do this.

  • A Proud American

    The President should be impeached along with his troup. They are all greedy crooks. The only reason for the bailouts is because their hands are in their pockets and they would drastically lose if they failed.
    I question the lack of border security. My opinion is that he really wants those terrorists to enter and cause havoc. Is he really one of them or one of us?

    • PragmaticSort

      Want some more truth? Google “Aztlan” and read up!

      • PragmaticSort

        Better yet, will give you this starter link: http://www.mayorno.com/WhoIsMecha.html

      • AngryAmerican

        Dont that blow your mind, i am reading a book about that now and i am just spell bound. You can see just how close we are to being a third world country

    • JC

      Political regimes thrive on chaos. So much so that they have been caught creating it over and over.

  • http://comcast.net herbert emerson

    what i have read ,morepeople know this but feel absutley helpless. the new feeling , is that even educaated people, donot read papers , waatch tv news , every thing is a supprise to them when you mention some of the things to them: I’don’t watch news or concern my self with that stuff , it’s to depressing. these are professionel people in all types of professions. unless it appleys to them don’t consern your self conversation stops .2012 appears to be the time when every thing as we know it stops . the government knows it , churches know it, peopledont know it. see articles of governments stock piling every seed known to man, what else are the up to.

  • Nick D. Petrovich

    It’s better late than never, but American masses heve been dumbed down to an incredible level, whereby they do not think and are hypnotized by TV violence, consumerism, compulsive purchases, credit cards, Las Vegas,and porno!!The only salvation is a shock treatment which is already at the doorasteps:

    Unemployment, loss of home, low standard of living,a Chicago Mafia government,unpayable government debt, invasion of the country by the illegals, drug consumtion…etc…

    Quo Vadis America???????

    • Chaos Factor

      Nick…. I agree… The likes of Fox news, Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh have listeners that are easy to influence and sway…..

      • PragmaticSort

        Too bad no one can remeber who is on msnbc, cnn, bloomberg- they and their view are so pro government and liberal that they can’t even get advertising for their programs. Hey, maybe Soros will bail them out!

      • 45caliber

        From what I can tell, most of their listeners are liberals who want to ridicule them. I don’t listen and I don’t know any conservative who does.

      • angel-wanna-be

        Chaos Factor, Oh Pray tell, I love me, who do you love???, Quite full of ourselves, aren’t we??______ Why I’m surprised you even bother with the likes of us nasty old Christian Extremists!__If your a comedian, don’t quite your day job. : )

      • http://naver samurai

        Probably they are the ones Americans want to listen to and not the BS whining from the left?

    • 45caliber

      Back in ’68 the Air Force Academy published the “Communist Rules for Takeover of the US”. They checked and the Communist Party agreed they were still following them.

      Rule 1) Destroy the ruggedness of the American people by concentrating their attention on spectator sports and sex. (Can you say “couch potato”?)

      Rule 2) Take control of the media and use it to prevent the population from knowing what goes on in our legislative halls and to tear down the image of any person the people might wish to follow.

      Rule 3) Disarm the population through gun control.

      I think they have basically covered the first two rules and are working hard on the third.

      • JC

        These are obvious ploys and they work.
        I’m hoping though that we are generally becoming aware of this and that we will generally act to disempower those who would control us.
        We’re Americans after all…

  • Bob D

    All of this globalism was in the works and is the will of Yahweh, so we can’t STOP IT anyway. Beware the “MARK” – don’t take it when it comes SOON ENOUGH:
    Read:
    REV 13:16-17 & REV 14:9-11

  • Chaos Factor

    Another ” scare ” article….you rightys love scaring yourselves…why don’t you ever list these rights you claim to have lost and list when you lost them… You never seemed concerned about all the rights you lost while Bush was trashing the constitution , Bill of Rights and international law……conservatives( republicans) always make the same arguments about taxes and spending , then when conservatives( republicans) get in power they spend and trash the country into debt and complain the countrys broke when anyone with commonsense knows it was republicans that drove this countrys economy into the ditch…, the authors on this site will write about being taxed when they know they’ve benifited from the rightwing neo con tax cuts while the burden is always on the middleclass …. Soon those tax cuts to the rich will expire and the top 2% will share the load with the middleclass….these articles also keep trying to sell gold to people who are having a difficult time just keeping their familys fed, clothed.. Kids sent to school…I laugh when I see all the ” buy Gold ” ads on this site when we know most these rightwingers are on a fixed government income…I’d suspect the people writting these articles are the ones that will lose that Bush/ Reagan tax break in 2011… Those poor poor millionaires …

    • CJ

      Caos, you got your moniker right. You spew misinformation and detract from the point with unrelated subjects in an attmept to creat, and perpetuate caos where order dominated. We see through you, buddy. Nice try, though.

    • Al Sieber

      So Chaos, it makes it all right for Obama to trash the constitution also ? it’s not a democrat/ republican thing, both parties are corrupt. see how we are divided like it says in the article? if you can’t figure it out you are mentally incompetent like most liberals.

      • eddie47d

        AlSieber, You say it’s not a Republican or Democrate thing yet you go on to bash liberals (Democrates).That’s twisted logic.

        • JeffH

          fast eddie47d, your comment is a coplete twist of logic…nowhere was it mentioned that liberals were “(Democrats)” except by YOU…Do I sense some guilt here?

      • http://naver samurai

        Gee, someone just described eddie haskel to a T.

    • PragmaticSort

      Which poor millionaires? Soros? All Bush did was go into Iraq and Afghanistan! We need to be in the middle of that mess. Probably the only thing keeping Israel from (rightly) bombing Iran into the stone age and opening a REAL global problem. I bet you cashed your refund checks Bush sent too.

      You lefties still want to blame Bush for the mess we are in. The real culprit is Clinton and the Congress in office in 1999 who did away with all the restrictions on banks and their investment arms. Was this bill that encouraged ‘handshake’ loans and their greed that encouraged borrowers to take on more money than they needed.

      True, the war is costly but only a drop in the bucket compared to what was done before Bush to damage this country. Now we have a President who promised the world and has delivered nothing. Your health care bill is a joke- what did it do to control rising medical costs that are the heart of the problem? Nothing. What did he do to control spending? Create $2 Trillion out of nothing! How many six figure Czars does he need? As many as he can get when he knows he has a license to print money!

      Oh, almost forgot! Bush did suspend one of our liberties when he ok’d listening in to conversations. Did it affect you at all? Our speech was still free unless we were involved in terrorist activites. Or are you mad that he allowed the poor terrorists in Guantanamo to be tortured! Enemy combatants, and illegal immigrants for that matter, have no rights except what we donate to them- which should be nothing. Cya in November.

      • eddie47d

        Pragmatic Sort of war lover, So Israel should bomb Iran or maybe the USA should? What political garbage! I have no love for Middleeastern governments but we helped create them. Remember the 30′s-70′s when we helped run that country (and British) for oil and control. Not much changed with our involvment in Iraq either.Reagan armed Iraq to the teeth and created a monster and now we have to live with the afterbirth. There’s plenty of blame to go around.

        • 45caliber

          So we did set them up. Big deal. Does that mean we should never interfere again even if they end up attacking us?

          I love all you people who insists that we invaded Iraq for oil. Have you taken a look at all that oil we get from them? We get less than we did under Husein! Most goes to France and Germany, just as it did before.

          All I can say is, that if we did invade Iraq to take over their oil we certainly got screwed somewhere down the line by someone.

      • 45caliber

        While Clinton was certainly a big part of the blame, it does go back even further to Carter. Let him have his “shine” too.

    • Lawrence Ekdahl

      You are also half right. We have been electing the lesser of two evils so long there is now no difference.

      • 45caliber

        I agree. When was the last time you voted FOR someone? It’s been a long time for me.

    • JeffH

      Alinsky would be a proud papa after reading your mis-information and rants.

  • Celes King IV

    CJ, Mary said nothing about spend and tax. She was in fact placing blame for the current situation at the seet of the Right Wing. I take it a little further.That is ife Left Wing and the Right Wing were placed in a bag shaken up and poured out the only real thing to come out would be extremism. Be it right or left it is the road to ruin when it po;oarizes working class against each other, while the current ontrolers of wealth and political power (lets call them capitol) will continue to make recisions good for them. Capitol controls business and business controls government. That to me says Facism is alive and well wraped up in the Red White and Blue.

    • CJ

      Celes, Mary’s implication of the source of the money (in the pockets) leads DIRECTLY to tax and spend. So, maybe you need to go back and check your definition of Fascism. With the intention of adding more control by the government instead of letting the economic engine find it’s own center is the Fascist rule.

  • Norman

    John sez anyone on SSI shouldn’t be able to vote. Seniors are the only ones in this great land that aren’t ON CRACK. This new generation has made no Sacrifices and has no skin in the game.I’m shocked when You hear of the number of people who want the feds to take over BP. They’ve done a good job with the postal system. The country can’t even think straight anymore.All liberals on CRACK. So sad. Enjoy the change suckers.

    • CJ

      Norm, I though he implied those drawing from the system who never paid into it. It’s their drain on the system, along with the fact a Democratic Congress put it into the general fund so they can spend it instead of invest it.

    • PragmaticSort

      CJ is correct here. Those that dont pay in should not vote. Senior citizens have paid in all their working lives- big distinction here between social security and welfare.

    • 45caliber

      We might find ourselves in a war if the government tried to take over BP. “B” stands for “BRITISH”. It is NOT an American company.

  • Penni Eads

    Before fighting wars overseas (which should only be defensive, not offensive), we should fight against the corrupt leaders in our own government even to their extinction, and elect leaders who will uphold the standards of truth and righteousness,including freedom to own property and to protect our families, our lives, and our liberty, and to worship God without question! Let our hearts be drawn out in prayer continually for this blessed land of America! Let us never forget the hand of God in the formation of this free land of America and the miracle of our very lives! We must always seek truth, even regarding our health, and the prayers of the faithful will truly be answered with a blessing upon their heads. And, of course, all natural foods, such as cherries and walnuts are created by God and are good for the food of man!

  • Chaos Factor

    Cj… I suspect you didn’t even read the article .. You just want to defend the very people that got this country in the shape it’s in…..just like the child that broke the cookie jar while stealing cookies then tries to blame it on a neighbors child….it’s like the Bp CEO that complained ” he wants his life back” when talking about the oil spill ….his life is making multiple million dollars paychecks while we worry about being able to keep filling our gas tanks … So keep defending those poor millionaires … They need their lives back…every point I made was from this article..

    • CJ

      Caos, now that you’re changing the subject (thanks for making my point) I’ll reply about BP by stating I think you didn’t hear the President say there hasn’t been a move by BP that wasn’t approved by him and his committee. I would think, under circumstances where I knew more than my boss, and was over-rode on my decision, I would want out, too!

    • Claire

      Chaos Factor– I heard that jerk say that and if I had been in the same room with him, I probably would have smacked him a good one. Talk about an arrogant, self-centered, egotistical slob that doesn’t know crap from Shinola. He is another head honcho that makes millions and doesn’t know how to do his job.

  • wayne

    But now that Bill Gates is apart of there policy making meetings.And ballot boxes have turned in to voting machines. How can we be sure our votes count? Always vote absentee,, leave that paper trail.

    • 45caliber

      But how do you know those absentee votes are counted?

      The last election someone in the system made the remark that only the votes in the voting machines were counted. IF there was a very close count between two people THEN AND ONLY THEN the rest of the votes were counted. Even then most of the military votes were not counted. The Dems particularly don’t want them counted because about 90% of the military voters are conservative.

      • Claire

        I have heard of instances where the absentee ballots were lost…??

  • Nadine

    Jindal is being a MAN!

    Obama is acting like a spoiled BOY!

    The intention is to ruin our country. After all Jindal is a

    republican! So he won’t get the help he needs so badly. Just like

    the democratic states got most of the stimulus money. It is all

    for the administration.

    • eddie47d

      Nadine, Jindal was the Republican spokeman in refusing Government stimulus money and said government should stay out of the business of private business. Now your mad because Obama isn’t doing enough for him. Jindal is not the Man.

  • J.M.R.

    i guess mary didnt hear that oil companys paid more in taxes than they made in profits, and who got the money it wasnt the people. TRY THE GOVERNMENT.

    • don

      JMR – give me some numbers on this one: oil companies pay more taxes than their profit share.

  • Derek

    How does “homosexuality” (ie, the FREEDOM of people to choose their own partner) lead to fascism?

    If “promoting brotherly love” promotes fascism, then Jesus Christ was a fascist (John 13:34-35)

    • http://naver samurai

      Homosexuality leads to fascism ny breaking down the traditional family (the way that was set up by God. 1 man and 1 woman), thus lowering the morals and ethics of a people. Julius Ceasar called it a war on the family. Jesus was no fascist. His version of brotherly love had nothing to do with lust, perverts, or sex. Read your Bible and find out.

  • Frank the Libertarian

    Americans for the past 50 years have been predictable and easily manipulated. Thats how we got where we are today. The “peaceful” way to begin to reverse this and gain strength is to become unpredictable and aware. As more Americans become aware to the TRUTH and the History of the past 100 years, they will start changing their ways, habits & understanding. Knowledge IS power, and for myself as I became aware of the many truths & history of “US” I changed my ways as well. Those changes do not feed into the ‘Manipulation & Deception Machine’.

    Imagine what would happen in the US if 50 Million people sold/converted their retirement/savings paper and bought Silver or Gold.

    Imagine what would happen if 50 million people STOPPED watching main stream media.

    Imagine what would happen if 50 Million Americans adjusted their W-4′s and stopped giving the Govt money until April 15th?

    There only needs to be a 20% solution, most here fit that bill, yet most will not take drastic measures as I have mentioned. Until enough people do, Real change will struggle.

    • Al Sieber

      Scary Frank, but true. as far as buying gold and silver thats a good idea but, the masses are still asleep, and there’s a gold and silver shortage, not enough being mined to keep up with demand.

      • Lawrence Ekdahl

        What are you going to do if you amass piles of gold and silver and all the family farms are lost to big corporate farms and have a monopoly? You can’t eat gold and silver.

    • 45caliber

      To know the truth of what happened in history, you have to know that the history taught in schools has been changed. Then you have to know how it was changed. I developed a hobby of trying to find out what they DON’T tell you or how they changed it but most do not. Many will not believe me when I tell them something because “my history book didn’t show that!”

      Everyone needs to know. As one of my history professors said one time, “Knowing history allows you to not repeat the mistakes of the past. But you must know what those mistakes were.”

  • FreedomFighter

    hmmm, owning a dog or a cat helps many older people live longer healther lives…must be a drug of some kind…are you reading FDA?

    Kick/vote the frakin socialist/commie control freaks out and restore America.

    FF

    • Claire

      FreedomFighter–As the owner/breeder of multiple show dogs, (I do not breed anymore since I have to “outlive” what I have) I had quite a few of them become certified therapy dogs. Some were not certified but they had sound stable temperaments and they were also involved in therapy. We go to hospitals, nursing homes, and schools. Also they were “demonstrator” dogs for people that took their dogs to obedience class. As far as older people owning a dog, it IS good therapy. It gives them something to take care of, nurture, and for some people a reason to get up in the morning. It is a proven fact that older people do thrive when they have a dog to care for. I know numerous elderly couples that rise and shine early in the morning, walk their dogs and they appear to be very happy. It keeps them “going.” These people will never feel “alone” and “useless” as long as they have their dogs.
      Just thought I would make a comment.

  • Penni Eads

    Frank, Nice post! I can’t even remember the last time I watched tv, period. I definitely have a mind of my own. I’d like to buy some gold but it doesn’t seem any better than paper money in today’s society. Who will want gold? It seems like prayer, food, water, and shelter are what we really need. Will gold guarantee that? I agree with the W-4 adjustment and the idea of Americans becoming more unpredictable and aware. My idea of awareness is the study of the scriptures as well as the study of how our nation was born. If Americans became the Christian nation we were in the beginning, that would be be a start to the desired change that would bless this land and the whole world!

    • Al Sieber

      Gold has always held it’s value through history. it’ll alway’s be worth something, paper won’t. fiat currency never lasts.

      • Mick for thought

        Are you sure? This link does not show a constant increase or held value.

        http://goldprice.org/30-year-gold-price-history.html

        • Vicki

          you are using the wrong measure of “value”. Run the comparison against real property not worthless paper.

          • Mick for thought

            Well I have done that and it depends on whose information you read. People who sell property say property, people who sell gold say buy gold. Cannot find a table comparing the 2 over time. If I get a link I will check it out and follow it to it’s creator. Meanwhile I will trust my nose and stay away from gold.

      • Cheryl

        But will the Obama regime confiscate it? That is my fear.

  • deafhoss

    All good articles with some good points and bad. We do have a serious situation at hand that needs the right wing support of freedom loving capitalist minded people and people who cherish the freedoms we have left. Our Government is truly wayward. However one comment that was mentioned regarding not allowing those people on SSI and other welfare programs the right to vote. I have to say that is a severe thought without consideration as to why certain people are receiving SSI or welfare?. Giving welfare to the masses of people who breed babies like rats and rabbits without thought as to how they will feed them is pure stupidity and of course those people don’t care they know the Govt will pay them to breed. Are you advocating euthansia for disabled persons?? To my knowledge SSD is paid out to those who have previously paid into S.S. and have worked, these people are recieving a portion of what they have already paid in and deserve the help. Many are still able to do something but society is careful not to hire them with having so many healthy unemployed to choose from. Social Security workers decide who gets what. I will agree it is possible that many of those people may be incapable of intelligently knowing and understanding the political issues, the possible outcomes and effects. This problem has been magnified by the integration of Communistic teaching and thought in the public school system as well as the drug, sex and music culture who promotes putting your head in the sand, smoke a toke ignore the issues, rather than being educated and involved. Druggies, Illegals, etc should not be allowed to get anything that they have not previously paid into as they caused their own demise, let them suffer put them in Pueblo lock them up and give them nothing. Welfare should be for people who have previously worked for a living, who are not now able to earn a substainable living, who have not committed any crimes nor have they abused substances or bred babies for recreation. Granted! in the old days, if you were a member the local NT Church family they helped each other. Now we have beggars who never attend Church, showing up on Sunday morning wanting to see the Preacher, wanting a handout! This is unacceptable! Of course they wont leave until they get some money, it don’t matter if the Church is poor, broke or not, they want a handout. Some beggars drive nicer cars and wear better clothes than I do.? They all have a hard luck story to tell! if you tell them to go to their own Church and ask for help and they have this blank stare! because they only go to a Church for handouts, not to honor God. Moral demise is the base cause of America’s down fall! The falling domino effect is happening.

    • Derek

      “Personal Liberty” would mean that you’ve got a right to ingest whatever substances into your body as you see fit. Why should drug-use have any bearing on anything at all?

      • 45caliber

        As far as I’m concerned you can put anything into your body that you wish – as long as you don’t get me involved in it. However, it has been proven that people who DO put everything in their bodies will sooner or later cause harm to their own families or others as they seek to get more money to sustain their habit.

        Now if you want to pass a law that says that anyone can use drugs if they wish but anyone who does use drugs are to be shot if they harm another person, I might be willing to agree to making drugs legal.

        • Derek

          Why aren’t the existing homicide/assault/battery laws sufficient to that purpose?

          You’re proposing the same nonsense as “hate crimes”. You commit an act, you get punished for the ACT, not the circumstances that cause the act.

          • http://naver samurai

            If you are drunk or high at the time you commit a crime, you are still 100% responsible for that crime no matter what. Get off of the drugs dude.

        • Vicki

          What Derick said.

      • http://naver samurai

        Personal liberties have limitations, moron. Remember there are laws against putting certain things into your body. Users are losers and losers are users, so don’t do drugs! Gruff, the crimedog.

      • http://naver samurai

        Users are losers, you loser!

  • refuse2lose

    Looking at the list of “to do’s”in order to turn a country into a fascist state I think we can see that both the liberals and the conservatives are guilty as charged.They are both willing accomplices in the destruction of our once great country.They only differ in the way in which they go about it,one does it thru illegal wars,illegal laws and oppressive tactics.The other does it thru social programs that make people dependent on them,coddling terrorists while condemning their own citizens and raising taxes to a point where we cannot afford anything.

    WE NEED A THIRD PARTY

    • 45caliber

      If we did acquire a third party, the two existing parties would combine into one of far greater strength. What we do need to do is get rid of the established people (and families) who control the two parties and replace them with people who would run the parties as they were intended to be in the first place.

  • deafhoss

    All good articles with valid points.I agree we do have a serious situation at hand that needs the right wing support of freedom loving capitalist minded people and people who cherish the freedoms we still have. Our Government is truly out of control. I have one concern that was mentioned about not allowing people on SSI and other welfare programs the right to vote. Without consideration as to why certain people are receiving SSI or welfare?. I will agree giving welfare to women who breed babies like rats and rabbits without thought as to how they will feed them, is pure stupidity and of course those people don’t care, they know the Govt will pay them to breed. However are you advocating euthanansia for disabled persons?? To my knowledge S.S.D. is paid out to those who have previously paid into S.S. and have worked, these people are receiving a portion of what they have already paid in and deserve the help. Many are still able to do something but society is careful not to hire them with having so many healthy unemployed to choose from. I will agree it is possible that many of those people may be incapable of intelligently knowing and understanding the political issues and the possible outcomes and effects. This problem has been magnified by the integration of Communistic teaching and thought in the public school system as well as the drug, sex and music culture who promotes putting your head in the sand, smoke a toke and ignore the issues, rather than being educated and involved. I say Druggies, Illegals, etc should not be allowed to get anything that they have not previously paid into, as they have caused their own demise, put them in Pueblo lock them up and give them nothing. Welfare if any should be for people who have previously worked for a living, who are not now able to earn a substainable income, who have not committed any crimes nor have they abused substances or bred babies for recreation. Granted! in the old days, if you were a member the local NT Church family they helped each other. Now we have beggars who never attend Church, showing up on Sunday morning wanting to see the Preacher, wanting a handout! This is unacceptable! Of course they wont leave until they get some money, it don’t matter if the Church is poor, broke or not, they want a handout. Some beggars drive nicer cars and wear better clothes than I do.? They all have a hard luck story to tell! if you tell them to go to their own Church and ask for help and they put on this blank stare! because they only go to a Church for handouts, not to honor God. Moral demise is the base cause of America’s down fall! The falling domino effect is happening. Additionally, People who call themselves Christians who may wear a cross and / or talk the talk! but have NOT Christ in their heart who also don’t walk the walk are many! these are they who will stand on Judgement day when God will say! “Depart from me I never knew you”!

    • tazio2013

      How much more of this crusading christian conservative nonsense must we endure and please leave jesus out of an otherwise spirited discussion as he adds absolutely nothing to the argument!

      • JeffH

        tazio, maybe you should consider putting a clamp on your atheism and honor free speech for everybody, not just yourself. Oh! Excuse me, you’re far too intelligent to respond to the liberal drivel but do have a need to attack the conservative christians…Now that’s a novel idea, or is it? Better doublecheck you handbook…

      • angel-wanna-be

        Taz, Sorry, Jesus was here loooong before you were, my money’s on his message!!

        • tazio2013

          Typical response from the CCCs who have imbibed far too long from the Fox Noise Kool-Ade cup!

          • angel-wanna-be

            Taz, The cartoon character named Taz, for Tazmanian Devil, actually spins better than thou!___Have a Great day! :)

      • Lawrence Ekdahl

        Jesus is the final judge. If you ignore him now , you will have to face him at the great white throne.

        • Robin, Arcadia, IN

          Amen! America was founded on God. Those who think differently do not know history!

      • http://naver samurai

        Read you history and understand that our founding fathers put their faith in God and Jesus into the creation of this country. You athiests are nothing but garbage and need to get out now!

  • http://www.sfschoolofeconomics.com Ingo Bischoff

    With the ratification of the 17th Amendment, we lost the American Republic established by the founders in 1787. Only the repeal of the 17th Amendment will provide a chance for the survival of a “free” America.

    With the ratification of the 16th Amendment, the ground work was laid to turn the gold standard monetary system into a central banking system. The destruction of the gold standard started with Federal Open Market Operations conducted by the FED in the mid-1920s. Monetizing of debt was specifically prohibited by the 1913 Federal Reserve Act. The rogue act of the FOMO by the FED was legitimized by the U.S. Congress via “ex post facto” law in 1934. We are now experiencing the final result of the decision by the federal politicians in 1934, a complete monetary meltdown.

    The repeal of the 16th Amendment after the repeal of the 17th Amendment is a foregone conclusion.

    With the repeal of the 17th Amendments, Federalism and the American Republic is restored.

    With the repeal of the 16th Amendment, the States will demand the removal of “legal tender” protection from the Federal Reserve Note,
    giving them the opportunity to restore a gold standard monetary system.

    Will it happen? No, not with the existence of the present paradigm. On the other hand, that is how easy it would be. Just repeal the 16th and 17th Amendments.

    • Mick for thought

      This looks a lot like picking and choosing what part of the constitution you want to respect. That would be considered a Liberal interpretation of the constitution not a conservative one. Which are you?

  • Robert Pgh Pa

    cj i think you read atlas shrugged by Ayn Rand because you understand truth.

  • http://yahoo doh

    TO ALL,
    AFTER READING TO ALL THE REPLIES, I HAVE COME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT THE ONLY WAY WE CAN STAND TOE TO TOE WITH ANYONE IS TO KNOW OUR CONSTITUTION. TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR OUR ACTIONS. DO NOT RELY ON WHAT THE MESSAGERS ARE SAYING, TAKE A MOMENT TO FINDOUT AND UNDERSTAND THE MESSAGE. REMEMBER THIS .. ” YOU ALWAYS MISS OR ADD SOMETHING THRU THE TRANSLATION “. MESSAGER IS NOT THE SOURCE OF THE MESSAGE . LOOK AROUND YOU FOLKS, THERE ARE A LOT OF MESSENGER AROUND PROCLAIMING TO BE THE SOURCE OF THE MESSAGE, A LOT OF US ARE ALLOWING THIS MESSAGERS TO TRNSFORM OUR LIVES.

    • 45caliber

      You are correct. Our freedoms are spelled out in the Constitution. But if we don’t know what those freedoms are or what restrictions are placed on the government, then we accept the ‘freedoms’ that those in power say we are due. Like ‘free’ healthcare that bankrupts us.

      • Vicki

        SOME of our freedoms are spelled out in the Constitution. Please refer to amendment IX (amendment 9)

  • Claire

    The FDA is another program that should be doing their job correctly, without bias, and for the overall health and welfare of the American people. They need a good house-cleaning too.

    • 45caliber

      When the FDA was set up it was needed badly. They hired a lot of people and worked hard for years.

      But now most of the things they needed to correct are correct. The majority of those people are no longer needed. But bureacracy depends on adding more people constantly, not cutting back. So they have several rush programs going on with the idea that just before the government comes out with a new budget, they release news of finding new things that are bad for you. This justifies their payroll.

      What we really need of the FDA is inspections of industrial plants and foods overseas to insure they meet our health standards. But most of those employees don’t want to go overseas – and neither do their bosses. So we see the smoke and mirrors of their “research” and get llittle protection from the products shipped in here.

  • s c

    Gradualism works. It takes a long time, but it works. In America, it was promoted and tolerated by BOTH political parties. Its chief approach is ‘the ends justify the means.’
    If we don’t stop it dead in its tracks, we will have a perverted form of fascism where ‘for God and country’ take on an entirely new meaning. The geeks in the White House are willing parts of this process (and most of Congress).
    The words Republican and Democrat haven’t meant anything for generations. Open your eyes, and stop listening to anyone who claims ‘everything is beautiful.’ We are VERY close to losing America. If you want blood in the streets, martial law and a government out of control forever, do nothing. Choose!

  • angel-wanna-be

    So go the people, so go the nation!__The progressives have driven us here and we’ve left them, chip by chip, and little by little, Bob, you are so right in this article!!!, we’ve been had, by not being continuously diligent, We are all to blame__We glorify and put on a pedestal, wrong doing, such a same sex relationships, abortion, and our Administration bows to our enemies, while the unborn, the family unit, our American rights and our allies, are vilified. The Progressives “Did Good”, they’ve got a lot of America in a choke hold, half of America doesn’t know how to live life on their own, without Government intervention or entitlements, and those of us who do know how, are labeled as “Crazy”. I’ll die crazy then, and I won’t let go of my home or property without a fight!
    God Bless Us All, we’re gonna need it!

    • Frank the Libertarian

      Angel, I agree with almost everything you wrote. One small “suggestion”. It really is for anyone…BEWARE with someone else telling YOU who YOUR ENEMY is. I have personally met several of the “ENEMIES of the ‘Free World’ &/or the US” and theyre not much different then we are. Every encounter was good & dare I say Friendship. History shows us his many times even in WWI, WWII & Korea.

      The “people” running MY Goverment are not doing the job properly, competently or by the “Job Description”. I Strongly suggest they be Terminated.

    • 45caliber

      Welfare is the destruction of the family unit.

      When a family has two parents, they tend to want to leave things to their children so the children have a better life than they did themselves. Part of that is due to leaving them money but the majority of it is in how the children are taught. The family unit is the thing that civilization is hinged upon.

      By doing away with the family unit by requiring that families with both parents could not draw welfare easily and encouraging single mothers to have more children by paying the extra money for each child, the family unit is being reduced in power, transfering that power to the government.

      And people wonder why those on welfare shape our country.

  • Robert

    Chaos we lost it when the president of the united states in did not leave a fort that belonged to the confederate states of america and was told that it would be attacked and it was since it was the confederate states land as was agreed to by the united states president James Buchanan and the confederate stated of america. Lincoln violated an agreement between to countries. and wanted power and bedamned the constitution and freedom. remember that the supposed re-instatement of the south was not done untill 4 new constitutional admendments were pass without the south. the south would not vote for them so Lincoln installed surrogate governments in the south which voted for these admendments and the south were without representation for 8 years. thats when you lost your freedom.

  • JeffH

    The Shadow Money Lenders: The Real Significance of The Fed’s Zero-Interest-Rate Policy (ZIRP)
    The Battle To Save The Fiat Money System Has Begun.
    Global Central Banks Acting In Concert-
    Disinformation In Financial Dailies To Confuse The People
    When The Truth Dawns On Hapless People, There Will Be Blood On The Streets.
    This Is The Warning By IMF! The wars unleashed thus far, specifically the “War on Terror” were launched to preserve the shadow money-lenders’ political and military power.

    This War on Terror is the greatest military sideshow that distracted the American people from the financial rape and plunder of their economy and the destruction of their Constitution.

    Since the Summer of 2007, we have witnessed a concerted effort by the world’s central banks and global commercial and investment banks to preserve the shadow money-lenders’ financial power, one that is founded on fraud and structured in every detail as in the infamous Ponzi scheme.

    In the last seven years, the Ponzi scheme was globalised by the Shadow Money-Lenders, siphoning hundreds of billions from so-called sophisticated investors and sovereign wealth funds. At its peak, the Ponzi scheme was estimated to be worth over $500 Trillion, with the Credit Default Swap (CDS) portion just under $60 Trillion!

    Hidden behind the headlines of the financial destruction that is sweeping across the globe, lies another story – a dark tale of men who orchestrated the crisis and have amassed enormous wealth and power at the expense of the millions who are now unemployed and whose homes have been foreclosed. This select group of men is in absolute control of the unfolding events. Who are they? THE

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=11491

    • JeffH

      THE HIDDEN POWER

      The hidden power is almost indestructible because throughout the ages, any attempt to unveil their hidden agenda and to expose the men behind the screen has been labeled “a Conspiracy Theory” and those who risk their wealth and reputation to expose this power are accused of being “Conspiracy Theorists”.
      President James Madison
      “History records that the money changers have used every form of abuse, intrigue, deceit, and violent means possible to maintain their control of governments by controlling money and its issuance.”

      President Abraham Lincoln
      “The money power preys upon the nation in times of peace and conspires against it in times of adversity. It is more despotic than monarchy, more insolent than autocracy, more selfish than bureaucracy.”

      President James A Garfield
      “Whoever controls the volume of money in any country is absolute master of all industry and commerce.”

      Supreme Court Justice Felix Frankfurter
      “The real rulers in Washington are invisible and exercise power from behind the scenes.”

      Louis T. McFadden, Chairman of Banking & Currency Committee
      In 1932: “The truth is the Federal Reserve Board has usurped the Government of the United States. It controls everything here and it controls all our foreign relations. It makes and breaks government at will …”

      President Woodrow Wilson
      “A great Industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated governments in the world – no longer a government of free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and vote of majority, but a government by the opinion and duress of small groups of dominant men.

      “I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country.”
      (President regretted signing into law the Federal Reserve Act)

      • JC

        “Give me control of a nation’s money and I care not who makes her laws” ~ Meyer Rothschild

        • JeffH

          …and it’s not even about the money I think, it is the need to control nations through the power of the almighty “sixpence”.

          • JC

            Some call it Zionism. I’m not so sure that it is a Jewish thing but it is most certainly a cult. It’s an interesting trip through history if you research it Jeff.

          • JeffH

            JC, I’ve been to several “zionist” websites that don’t paint a pretty picture…internal strife within the Israel parliment???

  • Frank the Libertarian

    It all boils down to one Timeless statement; Money is the Root of all evil.
    Want to know where the Criminals are? Follow the Money

    Want to stop the Criminals? Take their Money away by ANY and all means. Its all that props them up. Not Courage, not Intellect, not wisdom, only money and our use and mis understanding of it.

    • 45caliber

      Money is NOT the root of all evil. It is the LOVE of money that is the root.

      • JC

        An important distiction.

        • JC

          Or “distinction” whichever you prefer. ;)

      • Mick for thought

        This is a thought more than a comment: Not so sure it is the love money but the love of power. Granted the often go hand-in-hand but there a lot of wealthy people who love their money but do good things with it and many powerful people, some not so rich, that truly enjoy wielding their power over the masses.

        • Claire

          If I were super rich, I would do what I could to help get rid of this oil spill. I would certainly help the people in these states that are and will be affected by this tragedy.
          Being super rich would be great, but keep in mind that when a person dies, they leave with nothing and that their souls will be with God.
          Therefore, knowing I would leave this world with nothing, I would gladly give it to others that are in need.

  • Dean

    Great article!

  • chuck b

    please take a look st this link
    http://splodetv.com/video/immigration-gumballs

    this may have a profound affect on all our livelihood

  • 45caliber

    When Reagon became President, he appointed a commission to determine how we could pay off our debt.
    .
    They found that we had no debt. The FHA requires that when you get a loan for a house from them you also have to pay for insurance on that loan. If you default, they have all the money they received from you, the insurance pays off the rest of the loan, AND they have the property to re-sell. The extra money was being used to buy bonds on other countries. At the time we had a debt of around one trillion dollars – but the FHA alone had trillions of dollars on loan to other countries. And that is just the FHA. It doesn’t include income to other agencies.
    .
    So the word “debt” disappeared from political talks. It was changed to ‘deficiet”. Officially we have a “debt” now of about 12 trillion dollars – but I’m still not sure but what we have more bonds than that.
    .
    The one problem is that I cannot see us going to any country and telling them we need to swap the bonds we hold on them for ones they hold on us. Nor can I see them trying to “sell” these bonds back to the government who sold them to us.
    .
    Do we have a debt? I’m not sure if we do or not. But it is a good way to run up the taxes even higher, isn’t it?

    • Mick for thought

      Good comments. Pops a lot of rhetoric I see here.

  • 45caliber

    National Banks
    .
    Ben Franklin and others of our Founding Fathers insisted that there should NOT be a National Bank controlled by our government. Their argument was that the government would then control the people by the use of the money since they would have sole control of it. It was after the Civil War before such a bank was created.
    .
    Now the Federal Reserve actually is owned by the Rothchilds in the Netherlands. FDR turned it over to four families in 1933 when the government declared bankruptcy; the Rothchilds bought out the other three families.
    .
    The supply of money is controlled by the Rothchilds. They are the ones who set interest rates to loan money to banks. At the same time FDR turned ownership over to them, he also banned the ownership of gold by private individuals. Each bank was supposed to be retaining gold equal to the deposits of their customers but had instead sold it to Europe. FDR (whose family was heavily involved in banking) made gold illegal to prevent the bank customers from removing their money and breaking the banks.
    .
    Isn’t that some interesting history on how we got to where we are now?

    • JeffH

      45caliber…the Rothchilds family has been controlling since 740AD.
      Barack Obama was Rothschild’s Choice.
      Politicians like Hillary Clinton, Colin Powell, John McCain, Nancy Pelosi, and, yes, Barack Obama tremble in fear when the name “Rothschild” is so much as mentioned in passing.

      The power of the Rothschilds is greater than the combined influence and authority of the Democrat and Republican Parties. The red shield, the Rothschild Family crest, holds sway over all the nations of Europe, and many a government has toppled because a Rothschild was displeased with its performance. New York’s Wall Street and London’s “The City” financial districts stoop to hear Rothschilds’ instructions, and national currencies alternatively shrink or boom in value, depending on their favor. As it is recorded in Revelation 18, “the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed (become) rich…”
      http://www.texemarrs.com/rothschilds_choice_article.htm

      • Mick for thought

        Why was your list so short? Do you think the Bushes, Cheney or the rest of the last administration trembled less?

        • JeffH

          …your point is Mick? Did I intentionally leave them out or did you not see “The power of the Rothschilds is greater than the combined influence and authority of the Democrat and REPUBLICAN Parties.”

          Just let me know when I am championing for Bush and Cheney, would ya!

          • Mick for thought

            I saw that but knowing your rightward bend I thought it interesting you did not include any Republicans other than Powell to your list of trembling politicians.

          • JeffH

            Mick, there is no left-ward bend in these bones…I much prefer my right lean, which doesn’t mean my left leg is longer…I’ve always been right eye dominant

          • don

            Jeff, your article is right out of the KKK playbook.

          • JeffH

            don, thanks…I’ve noticed all of your well founded remarks are straight out of Alinsky’s play book. You’ve almost put a coherant sentance toether a few times, almost, but it’s easy to see you much prefer the common tactic of ridicule much better.

          • don

            Jeff, you accuse people who disagree with you a follower of Alinsky. I bet most people you accuse, do not even know who he is yet you use his principles. I really think you admire Alinsky more than anyone.

          • JeffH

            don, well it’s obvious, but not surprising, you know who Alinsky is. It’s also obvious you must troll with different names. I hope the perks are well worth it for you fool no one.

            I do appreciate you keeping tabs on me though, so thanks pal.

          • JeffH

            OH don, before I forget, that KKK thing was a real hoot! Keep it coming ’cause everyone needs a good laugh now and them…keeps us loose. Bye for now…

          • don

            Jeff, I also thought the article you referred to about Obama is a Jew was a hoot.

          • JeffH

            donny, never posted any article about Obama being a jew! Can’t you even get that right? Guess not!

          • http://naver samurai

            What do you know about the KKK playbook, Don? I noticed that you sort of cut and ran after that. What happened? Forget to pick up your hood and sheets at the cleaners?

        • Mick for thought

          I am trying to find the path trough the middle without getting egged from both sides.

          • JeffH

            Mick, even the middle path has it’s dangers.

          • Mick for thought

            True it does but I know it is my path and not one laid down by others.

          • JeffH

            I too!

        • http://naver samurai

          Bush, baaaaa! Cheney, baaaaa! Chaaaange!

  • FCOL

    Obviously, Mick has all the brains and is uber smart. Why don’t you go fix things Mr. Know it all?

    • Mick for thought

      Sure, name calling will fix things. Give me a comment of substance.

    • JC

      Actually, I’m enjoying Mick’s comments today, they’re civil and on point.

      • Mick for thought

        Thank you JC.

    • Mick for thought

      Keep reading. I am trying to pull it all together into a coherent thought. I want to do more than whine and point fingers. Perhaps another night of insomnia will provide me some insight.

      • http://naver samurai

        Some sources would be good, for a chaaaaange! Baaaaa!

  • Frank the Libertarian

    Very few Americans understand that by the existance of a Central Bank that Issues its Own Currency is EXTREMELY Dangerous (& proving it every day) & ILLEGAL in the US! It can print money out of thin air, and in any amount it desires, to who it does and doesnt want to lend to. Being a Private Bank, this is like allowing GE to control all eletrical appliances…if they dont like “Williams Appliance manufacturers” then they simply dont Loan them any cash to design & make new models & they suffer or go out of Bussiness. It also puts NO LIMITS on Goverment spending! If the Currency Volume had something to curtail its quantity (like Gold/Silver) then there is a LIMIT to what the Goverment can do! If it wants a WAR it has to finmd ways to pay for it, this makes going to WAR a tad bit more LEGAL & JUSTIFIED.

    This Bank is the “Lake” of corruption that Feeds all the small rivers & streams of corruption that cause America her ills. Its needs to be DRIED UP PERMANENTLY.

  • Keith H

    Yes, the federal Reserve is a private owned bank, that loans money back to our government with 10% interest, our tax daller is used to pay those banksters, and only 10% of our money supply is in paper, amd the other 90% is in computers, most of the time when you get a loan from the bank to buy a car or house, they don’t have the money that they’re lending you, if you don’t believe me, try withdrawing 7 or $8,000 from your account and see what they tell you. Yes they own the printing press,they don’t need to be bailed out, it was a scam they ran on us. The same thing with the war on terrorism, wich seems more like a war on imperialism, to control middle eastern oil, which affects our currency value and our power structure.The U.S. cannot remain a super power if our money is worthless, and without oil, we could not maintain a middle class life style, there is always a political,economic interest in every war we’re involved in,so you can thank the corporate controled mainstream media for misinforming the majority of americans,thank God people are waking up.

  • Joe K

    Bob Livingston ….

    I can’t say I knew all of that for years. If I had, I would have gold stashed in my mattress.

    Still, I think you might have missed a couple of things. Concerning property rights, you said “Call it private property but have perpetual and increasing property taxes.”

    You failed to mention the passing of laws to prohibit individuals from building on that property and you failed to mention the use of “eminent domain” to confiscate property.

    You also failed to mention the creation of a ‘supreme’ court that has the power to create law from the bench, doing away with any real need for the legislative or executive branches of our ‘checks and balances’ governmental system. And you failed to mention that said court is not required to interpret our Constitution, but does have the right to adjudicate by means of interpreting laws of other countries.

    Finally, you failed to mention the creation of “thought crime” which is just a hop, skip and a jump away from the opposite of ‘”politically correct”. When the government becomes able to convict individuals of “hate crimes” against the “people” or the “state” what would be a better name for it than “thought crime”?

    Some already consider it a thought crime to be intolerant of the gay, lesbian and trans-gender crowd trying to teach your children that you are a bigot at the public school and at boy scout meetings.

    David in Ma had a very good question:

    And the solution is?

  • Chris

    If you want to know who not to vote for, who the new Wolrd order is? The Trillaterals met a couple of weeks ago, The Bilderbergs meet June 4th thru the 7th in Spain this year, The only Newspaper to print the names of the attendies is American Free Press. There editor Jim Tucker has been going for the last 25 plus years, There agenda is pretty much the same, 1 to 2 currency for the world, controled by the UN. To raise the price of gasoline to $7.00 per gallon here in the USA. They still have not decided to bomb Iran, but this discusion is definatley going to happen. The Rockafellers, the Rothchildes, The Morgans,Timothy Giether will be there to get his marching orders, alot of our Senators & congressmen will be there. The current 100 most influential & powerful people in the world will be there. Jim Tuckers Book on the Bilderbergs is good reading

  • Another Voice

    Livingston is just trying to get all of us to invest in his gold scheme. It has nothing to do with fascism or any other ‘ism.’ He’s just trying to make money. Why can’t you guys see it?

    • Claire

      Another Voice–If you really believe this, then why are you here?

    • JeffH

      Can you tell us which “gold” corporation Livingston will make his money from this “scheme”? The name, good god, the name please?

    • libertytrain

      I’m with claire – no reason for you to be here.

      • Bob Wire

        and why is that? Because you didn’t like what he said? What it be more palatable to say. “the Emperor wears no cloths?”

        Mr Livingston is offering up many things much as some of his contemporaries with the same “learning”. Most of it based is some form of Fear.

        Fear is the driving force behind conservative thought and it uses over and over and over again and again. Many people horde, stock up on food, guns, ammo, gold, anything they can think of that might help them through these fear forecast dreaded time.

        We sell the fear and all the things that a fear trip might wish to pack up on.

        An Academy Store for the fearful.

        You don’t see this?

        These nothing wrong with being “prudent” self -reliant and prepared.

        But you must understand ,many take this behavior to greater levels the other’s.

        For them buying gold at 200% over value is seen as an investment.

        I’m not suggesting they foolish and Mr.Livingston isn’t either, but if they are, there’s no sense and letting the moment slip away.

        It’s call Venture Capitalism and filling a perceived “need”

  • Dean von Germeten

    The real problem of fiat currency lies in the Constitution itself. While it says that “Congress shall coin money and regulate the value thereof” (and prosecute counterfeiting), it never said how the money was to be DISTRIBUTED. That’s where banks inserted themselves, to “do the heavy lifting.” But to create a JUST ECONOMY, charging interest needs to be ABOLISHED. Govt. as source of currency, should be the lender of record, at zero percent (0%) or very low interest, to all US citizens and businesses. Also necessary is a national stock-market in which every citizen has a stake. Also citizen bonds issued at birth that mature upon a person reaching age of majority (18) where the proceeds can be invested in 1. further education, 2. start a company, 3. remain to accrue while the person goes to work for others,
    4. buy a home, 5. retire. A government Dept. of Investment should help a person manage their citizen bond, to prevent a destitute future life. This is the ONE national entitlement that all natural- born citizens qualify.

    Maybe you don’t like this idea, but my point is you cannot abolish the Federal Reserve SYSTEM unless you have something to replace it with. And so long as you allow private banking and money-lending to survive, it will grow under-ground and find expression somewhere else. The fact is that many of those who claim to love “freedom” also love banking, stocks, bonds, forex, investing at interest. In fact most of the middle-class including the TEA party long dearly to be bankers, or at least have the same bankers’ perspective toward the poor (statistical victims of globalism) as being “useless eaters.”

    And gold backing is really irrelevant. Money has value because “We the people” agree that it does, and the same goes for gold. We lose faith in currency when government gives it to the wrong people, for the wrong reasons, that “the people” don’t agree with. In other words,
    rejection of currency is a rejection of (dishonest) government. It’s
    really stupid to lock gold up in vaults when it has so many other uses. Plenty of other assets have value too, the banksters at least taught us that much.

  • Claire

    I just heard that Halliburton has donated large sums of money to some Republicans since the oil spill–anyone else hear this?

    • Mick for thought

      Yep.

    • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Bruce D.

      No I did not hear that but I did hear BP has Obama in their back pocket. BP seems to have been a big contributer to him. I guess it doesn’t matter because Obama just isn’t smart enough to handle the problems in the Gulf or anywhere else for that matter.

      • Claire

        It doesn’t matter at this point in time who the President is, put party affiliations aside. If you want to get down to the nitty gritty, the oil companies have both parties in their back pocket in some way or another!
        I heard the exact opposite–BP gave more money to the Republican party. At this moment, I don’t give a crap about parties. This oil spill is serious and dangerous.
        I have also heard BP will not allow pictures to be taken. WTH–I am really honked off about this mess. Americans need to see the results of this disaster.

  • owldog

    REMEMBER “STARVE THE BEAST”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starve_the_beast

  • http://www.charter.net James A Graham

    It has started here

    You may not believe it or care but as liberal as we the people are. it’s here

    Subject: Muslim Women

    Joys of Muslim Women

    This was written by a woman born in Egypt as a Muslim.
    This is not heresy, and it will scare the life out of you.
    Make sure you read the paragraph (in red) towards the end.

    Joys of Muslim Women
    by Nonie Darwish

    In the Muslim faith a Muslim man can marry a child as young as 1 year old
    and have sexual intimacy with this child. Consummating the marriage by 9.
    The dowry is given to the family in exchange for the woman (who becomes his
    slave) and for the purchase of the private parts of the woman, to use her as
    a toy.

    Even though a woman is abused she can not obtain a divorce.
    To prove rape, the woman must have (4) male witnesses.
    Often after a woman has been raped, she is returned to her family and the
    family must return the dowry. The family has the right to execute her (an
    honor killing) to restore the honor of the family. Husbands can beat their
    wives ‘at will’ and he does not have to say why he has beaten her.

    The husband is permitted to have (4 wives) and a temporary wife for an hour
    (prostitute) at his discretion.

    The Shariah Muslim law controls the private as well as the public life of
    the woman.

    In the West World ( America ) Muslim men are starting to demand Shariah Law
    so the wife can not obtain a divorce and he can have full and complete
    control of her. It is amazing and alarming how many of our sisters and
    daughters attending American Universities are now marrying Muslim men and
    submitting themselves and their children unsuspectingly to the Shariah law.

    By passing this on, enlightened American women may avoid becoming a slave
    under Shariah Law.
    Ripping the West in Two.
    Author and lecturer Nonie Darwish says the goal of radical Islamists is to
    impose Shariah law on the world, ripping Western law and liberty in two.

    She recently authored the book, Cruel and Usual Punishment: The Terrifying
    Global Implications of Islamic Law.

    Darwish was born in Cairo and spent her childhood in Egypt and Gaza before
    immigrating to America in 1978, when she was eight years old. Her father
    died while leading covert attacks on Israel . He was a high-ranking
    Egyptian military officer stationed with his family in Gaza .

    When he died, he was considered a “shahid,” a martyr for jihad. His
    posthumous status earned Nonie and her family an elevated position in Muslim
    society.

    But Darwish developed a skeptical eye at an early age. She questioned her
    own Muslim culture and upbringing. She converted to Christianity after
    hearing a Christian preacher on television.

    In her latest book, Darwish warns about creeping sharia law – what it is,
    what it means, and how it is manifested in Islamic countries.

    For the West, she says radical Islamists are working to impose sharia on the
    world. If that happens, Western civilization will be destroyed. Westerners
    generally assume all religions encourage a respect for the dignity of each
    individual. Islamic law (Sharia) teaches that non-Muslims should be
    subjugated or killed in this world.

    Peace and prosperity for one’s children is not as important as assuring that
    Islamic law rules everywhere in the Middle East and eventually in the world.

    While Westerners tend to think that all religions encourage some form of the
    golden rule, Sharia teaches two systems of ethics – one for Muslims and
    another for non-Muslims. Building on tribal practices of the seventh
    century, Sharia encourages the side of humanity that wants to take from and
    subjugate others.

    While Westerners tend to think in terms of religious people developing a
    personal understanding of and relationship with God, Sharia advocates
    executing people who ask difficult questions that could be interpreted as
    criticism.

    It’s hard to imagine, that in this day and age, Islamic scholars agree that
    those who criticize Islam or choose to stop being Muslim should be executed.
    Sadly, while talk of an Islamic reformation is common and even assumed by
    many in the West, such murmurings in the Middle East are silenced through
    intimidation.

    While Westerners are accustomed to an increase in religious tolerance over
    time, Darwish explains how petro dollars are being used to grow an extremely
    intolerant form of political Islam in her native Egypt and elsewhere.

    (In twenty years there will be enough Muslim voters in the U.S. to elect
    the President by themselves! Rest assured they will do so… You can look at
    how they have taken over several towns in the USA .. Dearborn Mich. is
    one… and there are others…)

    I think everyone in the U.S. should be required to read this, but with the
    ACLU, there is no way this will be widely publicized, unless each of us
    sends it on!

    It is too bad that so many are disillusioned with life and Christianity to
    accept Muslims as peaceful.. some may be but they have an army that is
    willing to shed blood in the name of Islam.. the peaceful support the
    warriors with their finances and own kind of patriotism to their religion.
    While America is getting rid of Christianity from all public sites and
    erasing God from the lives of children the Muslims are planning a great
    jihad on America ..

    This is your chance to make a difference…! Pass it on to your email list
    or at least those you think will listen..

  • http://www.charter.net James A Graham

    This letter sent to Tennessee Senator Bill Frist from a retired border patrol agent, and it has more common sense than all the bull being spewed from the Senate, with the exception of a few sensible representatives.

    Dear Senator Frist:

    There is a huge amount of propaganda and myths circulating about illegal aliens,
    particularly illegal Mexican, Salvadorian, Guatemalan and Honduran aliens.

    #1. Illegal aliens
    generally do NOT want US citizenship. Americans are very vain thinking that
    everybody in the world wants to be a US citizen. Mexicans, and other
    nationalities want to remain citizens of their home countries while
    obtaining the benefits offered by the United States such as employment,
    medical care, instate tuition, government subsidized housing and free
    education for their offspring. Their main attraction is employment and their
    loyalty usually remains at home. They want benefits earned and subsidized by
    middle class Americans. What illegal aliens want are benefits of American
    residence without paying the price.

    #2. There are no jobs
    that Americans won’t do. Illegal aliens are doing jobs that Americans can’t
    take and still support their families. Illegal aliens take low wage jobs,
    live dozens in a single residence home, share expenses and send money to
    their home country. There are no jobs that Americans won’t do for a decent
    wage.

    #3. Every person who
    illegally entered this nation left a home. They are NOT homeless and they
    are NOT Americans. Some left jobs in their home countries. They come to send
    money to their real home as evidenced by the more than 20 billion dollars
    sent out of the country each year by illegal aliens. These illegal aliens
    knowingly and willfully entered this nation in violation of the law and
    therefore assumed the risk of detection and deportation. Those who brought
    their alien children assumed the responsibility and risk on behalf of their
    children.

    #4. Illegal aliens are
    NOT critical to the economy. Illegal aliens constitute less than 5% of the
    workforce. However, they reduce wages and benefits for lawful US residents.

    #5. This is NOT an
    immigrant nation. There are 280 million native born Americans. While it is
    true that this nation was settled and founded by immigrants (legal
    immigrants), it is also true that there is not a nation on this planet that
    was not settled by immigrants at one time or another.

    #6. The United States
    is welcoming to legal immigrants. Illegal aliens are not immigrants by
    definition. The US accepts more lawful immigrants every year than the rest
    of the world combined.

    #7. There is no such
    thing as the “Hispanic vote.” Hispanics are white, brown, black and every
    shade in between. Hispanics are Republicans, Democrats, Anarchists,
    Communists, Marxists and Independents. The so-called “Hispanic vote” is a
    myth. Pandering to illegal aliens to get the Hispanic vote is a dead end.

    #8. Mexico is NOT a
    friend of the United States . Since 1848 Mexicans have resented the United
    States . During World War I Mexico allowed German Spies to operate freely in
    Mexico to spy on the US . During World War II Mexico allowed the Axis powers
    to spy on the US from Mexico . During the Cold War Mexico allowed spies
    hostile to the US to operate freely. The attack on the Twin Towers in 2001
    was cheered and applauded all across Mexico . Today Mexican school children
    are taught that the US stole California , Arizona , New Mexico and Texas . If
    you don’t believe it, check out some Mexican textbooks written for their
    school children.

    #9. Although some
    illegal aliens enter this country for a better life, there are 6 billion
    people on this planet. At least 1 billion of those live on less than one
    dollar a day. If wanting a better life is a valid excuse to break the law
    and sneak into America, then let’s allow those one billion to come to
    America and we’ll turn the USA into a Third World nation overnight. Besides,
    there are 280 million native born Americans who want a better life. I’ll bet
    Bill Gates and Donald Trump want a better life. When will the USA lifeboat
    be full? Since when is wanting a better life a good reason to trash another
    nation?

    #10. There is a labor
    shortage in this country. This is a lie. There are hundreds of thousands, if
    not millions, of American housewives, senior citizens, students, unemployed
    and underemployed who would gladly take jobs at a decent wage.

    #11. It is racist to
    want secure borders. What is racist about wanting secure borders and a
    secure America ? What is racist about not wanting people to sneak into
    America and steal benefits we have set aside for legal aliens, senior
    citizens, children and other legal residents? What is it about race that
    entitles people to violate our laws, steal identities, and take the American
    Dream without paying the price? For about four decades American politicians
    have refused to secure our borders and look after the welfare of middle
    class Americans. These politicians have been of both parties. A huge debt to
    American society has resulted. This debt will be satisfied and the interest
    will be high. There has already been riots in
    the streets by illegal aliens and their supporters. There will be more. You,
    as a politician, have a choice to offend the illegal aliens who have stolen
    into this country and demanded the rights afforded to US citizens or to
    offend those of us who are stakeholders in this country. The interest will
    be steep either way. There will be civil unrest. There will be a reckoning.
    Do you have the courage to do what is right for America ? Or, will you bow to
    the wants and needs of those who don’t even have the right to remain here?
    There will be a reckoning.

    It will come in November of this year. We will not allow America to be stolen by third world
    agitators and thieves.

    David J. Stoddard US
    Border Patrol (RET) Hereford , Arizona

    • don

      James, I always wanted to ask this question, and I’m not being facetious: how do we know how much money all the illegals send over. Your post stated 20 billion. Does someone actually look in each envelope? Now I’m being facetious. The Mexicans around me actually receives money from their relatives from Mexico. Does anyone subtract that from the 20 billion?

  • arthur griffith

    WAKE UP WORLD .OBAMA IS THE ANTICHRIST!WHAT PART DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND.HE WAS BORN IN THE MIDDLE EAST IN THE EARLY 1960′S.NOT HAWAII.LIKE HAS BEEN CLAIMED.HE IS A TOOL OF THE BACKGROUND POWER BROKERS,THAT WANT TO ENSLAVE THE PEOPLE OF THE WORLD.THE HISTORY OF THE HOLOCAUST WILL REPEAT ITSELF BECAUSE YOU ARE ALL SLEEPING!!!WHO WILL BE THE VICTIMS THIS TIME? STUDY YOUR HISTORY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! REMEMBER NOSTRADAMUS!

    • Norm

      arthur griffith
      Nothing personal, but you are one deluded duded dude living in a world of fairy tales.

      • LeeS

        NORM
        I completely agree with you, Arthur must be smoking some strong stuff because he sure has his head in the clouds or something.

  • Capt. G. Leone (Ret) USAF

    Bob, you are right on, as usual! Everything you listed comes directly from karl marx (lcit). Another area of national destruction is through “environmentalism”. When kids at school talk about things like “global warming”, I point them to marx who said to use environmental issues as a means to defeat the capitalists. I also give them a couple hundred pages from university web sites on the subject of glaciations. I teach middle school science but also provide my students with links to the Federalist Papers. Living, as I do, in “fly over America” (northern Wyoming), I can get away with this and in return, my kids come to learn, know and appreciate what Freedom is about and how we are losing it to the “nanny state”. Keep up the GREAT work!
    Gene

  • SteveK

    Points are all well made but I think the most cogent point is cosistently missed. That is “the right to contract shall not be abriged” and the “government”, federal, state and local are all corporations. All are using the commerce clause to cement contracts with ordinary citizens in which they are presumed to be commercial citizens as opposed to soverign (constitutional) citizens.
    The amendment reads as follows: “The right of people to contract with one another voluntarily and within the confines of the law existing at the time when a contract is made shall not be abridged.” Simply stated, the amendment means that the terms of an agreement that has been entered into voluntarily and that does not violate the laws existing at the time the agreement was executed cannot be reinterpreted, changed, added to, or subtracted from by lawyers, courts, or anyone else. An agreement is an agreement, and the rules cannot be changed in the aftermath just because the outcome is unfavorable to one or more parties to the agreement.

    That works well for those presuming contract agreement overrides constitutional agreements and exploit same through the back door.

    There are three definitions of “United States” 1. The federal government occupying a 10 square mile area aka Washington DC, 2. The territories over which said entity exercises control and 3. The 50 states United (united States of America). See Corpus Juris Secundum for a definition of the “United States” wherein it says “that with respect to the states the federal government is a foreign corporation”

    For further consideration you might want to look at your “drivers license” or any other paper wherein you have communication with any government entity, and note that the name thereon is in all UPPER CASE. When have you ever signed your name that way? An all upper case name denotes a fiction or a corporation not a natural citizen.

    You are fully engaged with Big Brother, not as a soverign (constitutionally protected) citizen, but instead a corporate lacky (via contract) subject to every corporate rule they can come up with; no attention to the Constitution is required because that water is long under the bridge! Corporate citizens have no constitutional rights and any lip service offered is just is so much wishful thinking/smoke screen.

    The rules you have agreed to by accepting their offer on a contract via innumerable “offers” wherein you agreed you were a “citizen or resident of the “United States” (thinking they were referring to the “united States of America” but instead were referring to the corporate “United States” aka Washington DC) “the right to contract shall not be abriged” pretty much leaves you vulnerable to the whims of those who control the government (even though you did not fully understand the terms of the contract is no excuse for signing it). They see themselves as masters and you are expected to dance to their tune.

    There is always a remedy to any situation but when you are up to your neck in BS, never give up hope. The answer lies in always cleaving to the truth, personal responsiblity and integrity in all things! Bye the way being fully informed goes a long way in securing your freedom! Pay no attention to media circus, designed as a distraction. Go to source and learn the truth about your inheritance as a “soverign citizen” under the constitution rather than a “corporate lacky” via the commerce clause.
    Good luck in your endevors to be free!

  • http://herringtons.home.mindspring.com lighterknot

    Notice how the thread on this blog is a mile long the minute it’s published; I think 90% of you must be on the payroll to fan the flames of hate.

    • libertytrain

      What a dumb comment.

      • JeffH

        …riding Unicorns in search of Rainbows…lightheaded might be a better name for it…

    • http://naver samurai

      No, I just like bashing the sheeple over the head.

  • Dave

    Whatever – this article makes no sense.

    How does promoting brotherly love or homosexuality lead to facism??

    • http://naver samurai

      Dude, read the cooment I made earlier in this post and stop with the Gay is OK nonsense. Why? Are you a s—packer too?

  • Charlie

    Cloward-Piven Government
    By James Simpson

    It is time to cast aside all remaining doubt. President Obama is not trying to lead America forward to recovery, prosperity and strength. Quite the opposite, in fact.

    In September of last year, American Thinker published my article, Barack Obama and the Strategy of Manufactured Crisis. Part of a series, it connected then-presidential candidate Barack Obama to individuals and organizations practicing a malevolent strategy for destroying our economy and our system of government. Since then, the story of that strategy has found its way across the blogosphere, onto the airwaves of radio stations across the country, the Glenn Beck television show, Bill O’Reilly, and now Mark Levin.

    The methodology is known as the Cloward-Piven Strategy, and we can all be grateful to David Horowitz and his ‘Discover the Networks’ for originally exposing and explaining it to us. He describes it as: The strategy of forcing political change through orchestrated crisis. The “Cloward-Piven Strategy” seeks to hasten the fall of capitalism by overloading the government bureaucracy with a flood of impossible demands, thus pushing society into crisis and economic collapse.

    Richard Cloward and Frances Fox Piven were two lifelong members of Democratic Socialists of America who taught sociology at Columbia University (Piven later went on to City University of New York). In a May 1966 Nation magazine article titled “The Weight of the Poor,” they outlined their strategy, proposing to use grassroots radical organizations to push ever more strident demands for public services at all levels of government. The result, they predicted, would be “a profound financial and political crisis” that would unleash “powerful forces … For major economic reform at the national level.”

    They implemented the strategy by creating a succession of radical organizations, most notable among them the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN), with the help of veteran organizer Wade Rathke. Their crowning achievement was the “Motor Voter” act, signed into law by Bill Clinton in 1993 with Cloward and Piven standing behind him.

    As we now know, ACORN was one of the chief drivers of high-risk mortgage lending that eventually led to the financial crisis. But the Motor Voter law was another component of the strategy. It created vast vulnerabilities in our electoral system, which ACORN then exploited.
    ACORN’s vote registration scandals throughout the U. S. are predictable fallout.

    The Motor Voter law has also been used to open another vulnerability in the system: the registration of vast numbers of illegal aliens, who then reliably vote Democrat. Herein lies the real reason Democrats are so anxious for open borders, security be damned.

    It should be clear to anyone with a mind and two eyes that this president and this Congress do not have our interests at heart. They are implementing this strategy on an unprecedented scale by flooding America with a tidal wave of poisonous initiatives, orders, regulations, and laws. As Rahm Emmanuel said, “A crisis is a terrible thing to waste.”

    The real goal of “health care” legislation, the real goal of “cap-and-trade,” and the real goal of the “stimulus” is to rip the guts out of our private economy and transfer wide swaths of it over to the government to control. Do not be deluded by the propaganda. These initiatives are vehicles for change. They are not goals in and of themselves except in their ability to deliver power. They will make matters much worse, for that is their design.

    This time, in addition to overwhelming the government with demands for services, Obama and the Democrats are overwhelming political opposition to their plans with a flood of apocalyptic legislation. Their ultimate goal is to leave us so discouraged, demoralized, and exhausted that we throw our hands up in defeat. As Barney Frank said, “the middle class will be too distracted to fight.”

    These people are our enemies. They don’t use guns, yet, but they are just as dangerous, determined, and duplicitous as the communists we faced in the Cold War, Korea , Vietnam , and bush wars across the globe, and the Nazis we faced in World War II.

    It is time we fully internalized and digested this fact, with all its ugly ramifications. These people have violated countless laws and could be prosecuted, had we the political power. Not only are their policies unconstitutional, but deliberately so — the goal being to make the Constitution irrelevant. Their spending is off the charts and will drive us into hyperinflation, but it could be rescinded, had we the political power. These policies are toxic, but they could be stopped and reversed, had we the political power. Their ideologies are poisonous, but they could be exposed for what they are, with long jail sentences as an object lesson, had we the political power.

    Every single citizen who cares about this country should be spending every minute of his or her spare time lobbying, organizing, writing, and planning. Fight every initiative they launch. It is all destructive. If we are to root out this evil, it is critical that in 2010 we elect competent, principled leaders willing to defend our Constitution and our country. Otherwise, the malevolent cabal that occupies the government today will become too entrenched.

    After that, all bets are off. God Bless and Save America !!!!!

  • angel-wanna-be

    Bob Livingston, My husband and had an argument not long ago when discussing National Debt. I asked the very question, you answered in this article, and that was, How can there be a National Debt, when the Government Prints infinite amounts of money?__There can’t be.__It’s my opinion, the Government hopes the American People stay stupid, and don’t ask the Government the truth, and they won’t say yes or no, either way!

    • angel-wanna-be

      Sorry_ mispelling< my husband and I, I meant.

  • Boo Ewald Taylor

    Scary stuff. Is this something we can change, this progression of socialism? Can’t we be the exception to the rule? England has taken notice of the TEA partiers, perhaps there is something in the air, a taste and desire for true freedom. It takes work and as they say, freedom isn’t free, it takes blood, sweat, tears, and time. I just want a REAL president who is proud to be American and doesn’t think he’s God’s gift to politics. Is that so much to ask? God help us, no we must help ourselves! God helps those that help themselves! Do something, become involved in a local freedom loving group, there are all kinds out there with the same basic beliefs in liberty and constitution. Or even if you just donate to your local favorite, any would all be happy to accept any monetary donation. We have got to stop this nasty infection.

    • http://naver samurai

      100% agree! For God and country!

  • LeeS

    I’ll give you a very simple explanation on how to go from Liberty to Socialism. Question: How do you catch a wild hog? First you find where they frequent then you scatter corn in the area. they will come to eat the corn. You do this every day till they are comfortable with coming for the corn. Then you put up only one side of a fence and scatter more corn. When they are comfortable with that fence side being there, you add another side of the fence and scatter more corn. After a couple of days and they don’t mind the second side, you add the third side and scatter more corn. When they don’t take any notice about the third side, you add the forth side with a gate and scatter more corn. When they come for the corn, you close the gate and you have the wild hog. Well, that is just what Obama and his commie buddies are doing right now is scattering the corn and if the American people don’t wise up and stop this guy, he will soon close the gate on our freedoms and Liberty will no longer be ours. WAKE UP AMERICA!!!

  • Bob Wire

    >>”Well, that is just what Obama and his commie buddies are doing right now is scattering the corn and if the American people don’t wise up and stop this guy”<>” We have got to stop this nasty infection.”<>”I just want a REAL president who is proud to be American and doesn’t think he’s God’s gift to politics.”<>”Otherwise, the malevolent cabal that occupies the government today will become too entrenched.”<<

    " Malevolent Cabal" that's a new one for me! Let's check it out!

    Oh! I found something ! word for word straight for the "American Thinker" "American Thinker: Cloward-Piven Government
    Nov 23, 2009 … Otherwise, the malevolent cabal that occupies the government today will become too entrenched. After that, all bets are off. .

    recent article ~ By James Simpson
    "It is time to cast aside all remaining doubt. President Obama is not trying to lead America forward to recovery, prosperity and strength. Quite the opposite, in fact.

    In September of last year, American Thinker published my article, Barack Obama and the Strategy of Manufactured Crisis. Part of a series, it connected then-presidential candidate Barack Obama to individuals and organizations practicing a malevolent strategy for destroying our economy and our system of government. Since then, the story of that strategy has found its way across the blogosphere, onto the airwaves of radio stations across the country, the Glenn Beck television show, Bill O'Reilly, and now Mark Levin."

    More Like "The American Stinker" if you ask me. They are selling "Doom and Gloom"

    "He's NOT A MAN! ~ not our president. not from here! he's a disease, he try to feed us corn and catch us !

    You people are a riot! ~ and you figure your very bright, Right?

    well come up with some "Facts" that support your beliefs then.

    There is all kinds of facts! but they are "fact" and not to be confused with opinions

    interesting facts

    random facts

    weird facts

    funny facts

    odd facts

    useless facts

    amazing facts

    strange facts

  • Bob Wire

    You can find similarities in “all” forms of government.

    You can apply any reasoning you wish to justify your beliefs and connect your dots.

    I’ve got some “dots” for you.

    FDR took over this country after the “wealthy” had ran it into the ground and people were going hungry and couldn’t find gainful employment, much like what we’ve seen has happened in the last 30 years as “The FED” was allegedly been taken off the people’s backs” ~ as per RR call to unite America. “Let us wake up this industrial giant and get the Federal Government off the peoples back!”

    So it’s been 30 years now, how do you like it so far?

    Petty words it’s true, be it wasn’t All of America that the government removed restriction , but just some of America. ~ It wasn’t All of America that went to work, but just some of America.

    This disparity over the course of the last 30 years has brought us to this point.

    I know you think you represent the majority of Americans, but the truth is you don’t. Your just the only American’s that you perceive as valued and count, as you claim some majority from inside a true minority.

    Somebody has to carry out the garbage, watch over children, sweep floors, roof houses, stock grocery shelfs,

  • Mark

    Well, Bob Wire, I guess uo can keep carrying out the garbage while Obama-ssiah ruins this country …….
    The economy of America has run in cycles for a long time. In the 19th century “depressions” or “recessions” were refered to as “panics.” Then, when your original superhero, FDR, came into power he decided “panics” was too … “panicking,” so the word “recession” and “depression” came into vogue. After all, he didn’t want to “panic” the sheeple. So he began his run of ABC agencies that actually didn’t do anything to help the economy. At the beginning of WW2 the unemployment rate was the same as it had been at the beginning of FDR’s term. Even FDR knew his programs had been a failure; he almost didn’t run again in 1940. You know how he won in 1940? The Nazis and the Japanese were on the march, and FDR promised to keep us out of the war. THAT is how he won. Didn’t work out too well.

    [i]“You can apply any reasoning you wish to justify your beliefs and connect your dots.”[/i]~~ Bob Wire.

    Okay, then, all arguments must then be both right and wrong at the same time, if you can use “any reasoning” (good vs. bad, right vs. wrong) you want.
    Please try a [i]better[/i] argument ……

  • Bob Wire

    You can find similarities in “all” forms of government.

    You can apply any reasoning you wish to justify your beliefs and connect your dots.

    I’ve got some “dots” for you.

    FDR took over this country after the “wealthy” had ran it into the ground and people were going hungry and couldn’t find gainful employment, much like what we’ve seen has happened in the last 30 years as “The FED” was allegedly taken off the people’s backs” ~ as per RR call to unite America. “Let us wake up this industrial giant and get the Federal Government off the peoples back!”

    So it’s been 30 years now, how do you like it so far?

    Petty words, it’s true, be it wasn’t All of America that the government removed restriction , but just some of America. ~ It wasn’t All of America that went to work, but just some of America.

    This disparity over the course of the last 30 years has brought us to this point.

    I know you think you represent the majority of Americans, but the truth is you don’t. Your just the only American’s that you perceive as valued and count, as you claim some majority from inside a true minority.

    Somebody has to carry out the garbage, watch over children, sweep floors, roof houses, stock grocery shelves, fix flats and mend fences.

    We can’t all engage in “Day trading”, build aircraft, ships, armament, work for the many arms of government or insurance companies.

    So how is the weather in the Ivory Tower today? Sunny and Bright?

    Understand this, there can be no top without a bottom.

    It’s the bottom, the people below your station that holds you in your position. We have people that are so poor, they pay no taxes but are required to be subsidized to live a meager existence. That’s just plain wrong!

    We need everyone’s contribution . but they got to have it to pay it.

    We keep a going down this same old path and you too could be a Walmart Greeter someday. If there enough “consumers” left to greet!

    For the grace of God there go I. I don’t care how smart you think you are.

    You think your little crowd gathering at the castle gates is a threat?

    Go to the end of the line, there are many people ahead of you and the line long.

  • Bob Wire

    >>”Then, when your original superhero, FDR, came into power he decided “panics” was too … “panicking,” so the word “recession” and “depression” came into vogue. After all, he didn’t want to “panic” the sheeple.”<<<

    If I remember, some of the wall street crowd was jumping out of building just to make a puddle of teeth ,hair, blood, bone and eyeballs down below. After enjoying years of "good-times" partying down while few controls to regulate as they over leveraged themselves, failing to observe sound business practices. The sky being the limit, it was a major "grab fest" to the end!

    How can I offer anything if you fail to have any "insight" to the conditions that lead to FDR decisions. No more the a Monday morning quarterback, void the grasp and gravity of the times, of hunger , devastation and no hope. Purely academic history disengaged from the human drama and suffering? I suppose you'd preferred to have let nature take it course and watch the whole world order slip farther into chaos?

    FDR was a realist and knew a some point the chances were good America must enter the war if freedom was to prevail. He knew too, the American people didn't want it. I think that changed after Dec 7th 1941 don't you agree? Or do you wish to debate that? FDR played the cards he was dealt. Hind sight on in your favor.

    I suppose you'd second guess Truman as well?

    The Great Depression was a severe worldwide economic depression in the decade preceding World War II. The timing of the Great Depression varied across nations, but in most countries it started in about 1929 and lasted until the late 1930s or early 1940s.[1] It was the longest, most widespread, and deepest depression of the 20th century, and is used in the 21st century as an example of how far the world's economy can decline.[2] The depression originated in the United States, starting with the stock market crash of October 29, 1929 (known as Black Tuesday), but quickly spread to almost every country in the world.[1]

    The Great Depression had devastating effects in virtually every country, rich and poor. Personal income, tax revenue, profits and prices dropped, and international trade plunged by a half to two-thirds. Unemployment in the United States rose to 25%, and in some countries rose as high as 33%.[3] Cities all around the world were hit hard, especially those dependent on heavy industry. Construction was virtually halted in many countries. Farming and rural areas suffered as crop prices fell by approximately 60 percent.[4][5][6] Facing plummeting demand with few alternate sources of jobs, areas dependent on primary sector industries such as cash cropping, mining and logging suffered the most.[7]

    Countries started to recover by the mid-1930s, but in many countries the negative effects of the Great Depression lasted until the start of World War II.

    You views of history is jaded and near sighted at best.

    You wish to blame a "tool manufacture" for everything the tools has done holding the person's that employed the "Tool" free of all responsibility and obligations. Just more GOP deferred responsibility as I see it and what we've become all too accustom to seeing.

    What a mind set! It must be nice to be free of fault, guilt or blame. Just don't do anything! ~

    Much more of the same "SSDD" (same sh1t different day) We can always blame the last person that touched it or the "tool" creator!

    • Mark

      The Great Depression was worldwide, but many other countries recovered from it faster than America, because they didn’t try to use FDR’s top down “spend-our-way out of the depression methodolgy FDR did.
      It doesn’t impress me to hear;
      “How can I offer anything if you fail to have any “insight” to the conditions that lead to FDR decisions. No more the a Monday morning quarterback, void the grasp and gravity of the times, of hunger , devastation and no hope. Purely academic history disengaged from the human drama and suffering? I suppose you’d preferred to have let nature take it course and watch the whole world order slip farther into chaos?”
      What insight are you talking about? Did you live through the depression of the 1930s??? I sort of doubt that. That leaves you with about as much “insight” as anyone else has.

      As for FDR being a “realist,” yea, big woop-de-do there. He was that if you count him doing what he had to to get re elected. As for his promises re: WW2 and isolationism, I was so much criticizing him as just pointing out the bitterly realistic fact that while he was kow-towing to the isolationist crowd (likely a political necessity) he himself knew that he was an utter failure insofar as re-energizing the American economy.

      You know, it’s as easy as s**t to claim those who disagree with you lack “insight” but the real tough thing is to deal with the reality that no government, anywhere, has ever taxed and spent a country back into good times. Just doesn’t happen.
      It didn’t happen for FDR and it is not going to happen for Obama.
      As Maggie Thatcher once claimed; “the problem with socialism is that pretty soon you run out of other peoples’ money.”
      Uh oh. Now you’ll whine I infered Obama was a “socialist.”
      I really don’t care what he’s called.
      He will run out of money. Hey, in fact, he ALREADY has! Were —what? thirteen TRILLION dollars in debt now.????????
      And the employment figures out Friday June 5th state that 90% of the new employees out there are government. They are census workers. That’ll last maybe one month.
      It isn’t going well for Obama/FDR the Younger.

      “You(sic) views of history is jaded and near sighted at best.”~~ Bob Wire.

      Ouch!

      Really, from someone who has been furiously rewriting Franklin Delano Roosevelt’s history, that stings like a cotton ball. He he he ….

      • Bob Wire

        Rewriting history? I copy and paste straight out of Wikipedia for your amusement! And it concurs with everything I’ve read and heard from the people who lived through it on the matter.

        So maybe it’s you that attempts to offer the world a different slant on the great depression and life and times of FDR.

        It’s pretty obvious that you are and fail to accept the significance of the times.

        • Mark

          “Bob Wire says:
          June 5, 2010 at 3:49 pm
          Rewriting history? I copy and paste straight out of Wikipedia for your amusement! And it concurs with everything I’ve read and heard from the people who lived through it on the matter.

          So maybe it’s you that attempts to offer the world a different slant on the great depression and life and times of FDR.

          It’s pretty obvious that you are and fail to accept the significance of the times.” ~~Bob Wire.

          Wikipedia? There’s a UNIMPEACHABLE source.
          As for agreeing with people who “lived through it,” you obviously never spoke to either of my grandparents.
          The life and times of FDR? What’s THAT — a movie? You have yet to explain why it was, that if FDR’s grand spending spree and public works projects were so great, why did he run on an isolationist platform in the 1940 election? Having actually read history (not so much on Wikipedia but in books, where they hide the real facts) it was blatently obvious FDR’s programs did not alleviate the depression. Even History Channel’s documentary on Roosevelt (“FDR: A Presidency Revealed) remarked on the fact that neither Roosevelt or any of his advisors had any idea how to solve the depression.
          Instead of whining that people who disagree with your particular spin on history as “fail(ing) to accept the significance of the times,” I might suggest you come up with some other more effective point of fact to actually show how wonderful FDR was … or why his failed policies, which Obama seems to be echoing, will work any better today.
          As Albert Einstein once said, “the definition of insanity is to try the same thing all over again and expecting a different result.”
          IT did NOT work for FDR and it won’t work for Obama.
          We had a recession in the early 1980s as well. It was over by 1982 at which point we were experiencing a very healthy growth.
          While some economic indicators seem better now in 2010, than from 2009, the rebound from our recession is no where near as strong or as quick as the rebound under President Reagan.
          And one of the chief reasons is the political agenda of our current president.

  • Mark

    “As for his promises re: WW2 and isolationism, I was* so much criticizing him as just pointing out the bitterly realistic fact that while he was kow-towing to the isolationist crowd (likely a political necessity) he himself knew that he was an utter failure insofar as re-energizing the American economy….”

    SHOULD read “I wasn’t so much criticizing” Dang internet corrupted typing skills …..

  • Night-hunter

    First of all, in the real world, there’s no such thing as “fair.” Secondly, even the communist countries had “political parties’ and “elections.” Third, throughout history there have been people with great wealth (a very small minority) who pretty much ignored the masses, did as they pleased with relative legal impunity, and either were, or had political clout with, the persons running the government(s). The experiment that is the United States, initially changed that. However, the people’s desire to be “secure” has lead to the passage of laws that supposedly increase the security of the individual, which in reality reduces freedom. The process really accelerated under FDR, and has been growing more rapidly ever since under ALL administrations. And contrary to popular economic theories, the most probable cause of the Great Depression was world wide droughts (The 29 Crash was a resulting symptom, not the primary cause.) The current economic situation is directly attributable to the Democrats in Congress forcing banks to make loans to those with insufficient ability to repay, and then trying to mitigate their own losses by selling the mortgages, which were then used as collateral by the purchasing “holding” companies to borrow more. There is absolutely no way to deficit spend into prosperity. And lastly, economic policies take several years before their effects can be noted. Thus, Reagan’s policies fueled the Clinton prosperity, Clinton’s policies AND the 911 attacks AND Katrina AND the east coast drought fueled the Bush downturn and the current situation. We haven’t begun to feel the impact of the massive debt, other natural disasters, and the oil spill, yet.

    “Whenever the government of the United States shall break up, it will probably be in consequence of a false direction having been given to publick opinion. This is the weak point of our defenses, and the part to which the enemies of the system will direct all their attacks. Opinion can be so perverted as to cause the false to seem the true; the enemy, a friend, and the friend, an enemy; the best interests of the nation to appear insignificant, and trifles of moment; in a word, the right the wrong, and the wrong the right.” James Fenimore Cooper

    “The disposition of all power is to abuses, nor does it at all mend the matter that its possessors are a majority.” James Fenimore Cooper

    “In America, it is indispensable that every well wisher of true liberty should understand that acts of tyranny can only proceed from the publick. The publick, then, is to be watched, in this country, as, in other countries kings and aristocrats are to be watched.” James Fenimore Cooper

    “The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.”- Thomas Jefferson

    • Mark

      Some darn good points there, Night-hunter. I like those Cooper quotes.

    • Bob Wire

      Well Night-hunter, you are certainly entitled your opinion, and without a doubt the “weather” is, has been and always will be a factor in any human endeavor and not up for debate. But you overview discounts many things and complete void of others as to “what created” the great depression. Maybe you should write a book expressing your view. Many have you know, here excerpt of just one and he fails to address wide spread drought.

      >>Main Causes of the Great Depression
      Paul Alexander Gusmorino 3rd : May 13, 1996

      The Great Depression was the worst economic slump ever in U.S. history, and one which spread to virtually all of the industrialized world. The depression began in late 1929 and lasted for about a decade. Many factors played a role in bringing about the depression; however, the main cause for the Great Depression was the combination of the greatly unequal distribution of wealth throughout the 1920′s, and the extensive stock market speculation that took place during the latter part that same decade. The maldistribution of wealth in the 1920′s existed on many levels. Money was distributed disparately between the rich and the middle-class, between industry and agriculture within the United States, and between the U.S. and Europe. This imbalance of wealth created an unstable economy. The excessive speculation in the late 1920′s kept the stock market artificially high, but eventually lead to large market crashes. These market crashes, combined with the maldistribution of wealth, caused the American economy to capsize.

      The “roaring twenties” was an era when our country prospered tremendously. The nation’s total realized income rose from $74.3 billion in 1923 to $89 billion in 19291. However, the rewards of the “Coolidge Prosperity” of the 1920′s were not shared evenly among all Americans. According to a study done by the Brookings Institute, in 1929 the top 0.1% of Americans had a combined income equal to the bottom 42%2. That same top 0.1% of Americans in 1929 controlled 34% of all savings, while 80% of Americans had no savings at all3. Automotive industry mogul Henry Ford provides a striking example of the unequal distribution of wealth between the rich and the middle-class. Henry Ford reported a personal income of $14 million in the same year that the average personal income was $7505. By present day standards, where the average yearly income in the U.S. is around $18,5006, Mr. Ford would be earning over $345 million a year! This maldistribution of income between the rich and the middle class grew throughout the 1920′s. While the disposable income per capita rose 9% from 1920 to 1929, those with income within the top 1% enjoyed a stupendous 75% increase in per capita disposable income7.

      A major reason for this large and growing gap between the rich and the working-class people was the increased manufacturing output throughout this period. From 1923-1929 the average output per worker increased 32% in manufacturing8. During that same period of time average wages for manufacturing jobs increased only 8%9. Thus wages increased at a rate one fourth as fast as productivity increased. As production costs fell quickly, wages rose slowly, and prices remained constant, the bulk benefit of the increased productivity went into corporate profits. In fact, from 1923-1929 corporate profits rose 62% and dividends rose 65%10.

      So ~ there was a drought alright, a money drought and the weather certainly wasn’t cooperating either.

      Now that’s just one historian’s view granted, but it’s the same story repeated over and over by others.

      Would you mind explaining why you won’t accept this historical data?

      • Mark

        “Maldistribution of wealth??”
        That’s what caused the Great depression? Wealth is not “distributed,” it is earned. Right there I see that author is a leftie, not an objective historian.
        Who, or what “entity” “distributes” wealth, anyway????
        There were plenty of other factors involved that lead to, and exacerbatred, the depression, such as the Smoot Hawley Tariff.

        • Bob Wire

          No ! Wealth is not always earned, but always acquired by any means possible. I enjoy the the story of Standard oil beginnings, Old man Rockafellow cornered the market by going into the barrel business. His competition might well out produce him, but they were required to come to him for the Barrel.

          Today, we find Insurance Companies that provide Heath Care coverage immune to anti-trust laws ~ having markets fixed and the people at the mercy of their benevolence. Nice gig !

          We had major concerns outsourcing jobs throwing American out of work while American day trades gambling on the rise and fall of markets all at the same time. ~ That’s a direct contradiction, much like me shopping for tools at a pawn shop to replace the ones someone stole out of my truck last night. With me being angry about it, while contributing to my own misfortune.

          It’s a simple notion, all wealth is “earned” but it’s simply not true.

          I have little doubt, people feel deserving for their efforts. I could go roll a few drunks every night, risk life and limb, I should have my rewards? I found these contributors in a compromised?

          I could call for closed bidding of contract work valuing millions of dollars and tell my chosen contractor the details of each bid.

          If the a real low bid come in, award him the contract and set him up for a default of contract, allow my friend the head start and setup. While his competition heads to the court house.

          The ways to acquire wealth is endless. But if you wish to call them all “Earning” I differ with you on many levels of thought.

          To assume “Wealth” is always earned and the playing field we all play on is level, is an erroneous at least and naive at the best.

          If you and I set down to a good game of poker and I only had a thousand to play with and you had 10 thousand. I might as well dispense with the cards and just hand you my money and find something else to amuse myself with. This too is the nature of money and wealth.

          If you see a flaw in my reasoning, let me know.

          • Mark

            “Flaw” in your reasoning?”
            If you wish to “roll drunks” to make a profit, fine. The police department may eventually take exception to your efforts.
            And who are you to say tycoons and others haven’t “earned” their wealth?
            Yes, monopolies have been built up. Then the government comes along and breaks them up … and then they reform … and are broken up again, a never ending process, it seems.

            “To assume ‘Wealth’ is always earned and the playing field we all play on is level, is an erroneous at least and naive at the best.”~~ Bob Wire.

            So YOU get to decide what constitutes “earning,” is that it.
            There has never been, and there never will be, an “even playing field.” If you believe that, it’s you who are being naive. Even should the government somehow magically dictate such, the nature of humanity itself would destroy it. Different people have different abilities. Some people are more aggressive than others, some brighter, some not so bright. The author Samuel Clemons (Mark Twain) once quipped that if you were able to take all the wealth in the world, and divide it equally, the next day, there would agin be the rich and the poor.
            Unfortunatly — for you — he was right.

            The Soviet Union was built on the theory of utopianism. But all they managed to distribute “evenly” was misery. And even THAT failed miserably.

            And I note …. there are people today, who despite the lessons of history, are forever intent upon repeating it’s mistakes……

        • Bob Wire

          Okay Mark, ~ here one that includes weather condition. Where he’s right or left I’m not sure, he offers more issues but much less facts that should please the more right leaning, messy details and facts being so annoying and subject to interpretation and requiring the mind for them. Not wanting to look at Wall Street or Bankers too close.

          It’s offer us a wider view ~ with less detail

          Top 5 Causes of the Great Depression

          By Martin Kelly, About.com Guide
          See More About:

          * great depression
          * stock market
          * new deal

          What caused the Great Depression, the worst economic depression in US history? It was not just one factor, but instead a combination of domestic and worldwide conditions that led to the Great Depression. As such, there is no agreed upon list of all its causes. Here instead is a list of the top reasons that historians and economists have cited as causing the Great Depression.

          The effects of the Great Depression was huge across the world. Not only did it lead to the New Deal in America but more significantly, it was a direct cause of the rise of extremism in Germany leading to World War II.
          1. Stock Market Crash of 1929
          Many believe erroneously that the stock market crash that occurred on Black Tuesday, October 29, 1929 is one and the same with the Great Depression. In fact, it was one of the major causes that led to the Great Depression. Two months after the original crash in October, stockholders had lost more than $40 billion dollars. Even though the stock market began to regain some of its losses, by the end of 1930, it just was not enough and America truly entered what is called the Great Depression.
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          2. Bank Failures
          Throughout the 1930s over 9,000 banks failed. Bank deposits were uninsured and thus as banks failed people simply lost their savings. Surviving banks, unsure of the economic situation and concerned for their own survival, stopped being as willing to create new loans. This exacerbated the situation leading to less and less expenditures.
          3. Reduction in Purchasing Across the Board
          With the stock market crash and the fears of further economic woes, individuals from all classes stopped purchasing items. This then led to a reduction in the number of items produced and thus a reduction in the workforce. As people lost their jobs, they were unable to keep up with paying for items they had bought through installment plans and their items were repossessed. More and more inventory began to accumulate. The unemployment rate rose above 25% which meant, of course, even less spending to help alleviate the economic situation.
          4. American Economic Policy with Europe
          As businesses began failing, the government created the Smoot-Hawley Tariff in 1930 to help protect American companies. This charged a high tax for imports thereby leading to less trade between America and foreign countries along with some economic retaliation.
          5. Drought Conditions
          While not a direct cause of the Great Depression, the drought that occurred in the Mississippi Valley in 1930 was of such proportions that many could not even pay their taxes or other debts and had to sell their farms for no profit to themselves. This was the topic of John Steinbeck’s The Grapes of Wrath.

          Hmm? offering little focus on Wall Street, where it seem to originate after years of excess and wealth gained overnight ~ so do you like the Right’s take on the Great Depression better?

          Why blame a single match for a forest fire, Right? The condition of every tree bears some blame.

          There truly is a division of analytical thought that separates us.

          • Mark

            I am so deeply touched by your analysis I could barf.
            “There truly is a division of analytical thought that separates us.” ~~ Bob Wire.
            Oh …. my …. Gaaaaaaawd! Hits 10.5 on the sanctimony scale.

            “Hmm? offering little focus on Wall Street, where it seem to originate after years of excess and wealth gained overnight ~ so do you like the Right’s take on the Great Depression better?

            Why blame a single match for a forest fire, Right? The condition of every tree bears some blame.”~~ Bob Wire.

            Never was I saying there was only one single cause of the depression.
            And just what do you consider an “excess” of wealth? You have taken a great deal of “talking points” from the George Soros types it’s incredible.

            And please tell me … I seem to have missed this somewhere … just why were FDR’s programs so terrific? I repeat my point that even FDR himself almost decided not to run again in 1940 because HE KNEW his programs had done NOTHING to ameliorate the situation. It was only his claim to be against entering the war that allowed his re election.

          • Bob Wire

            Who cares what FDR was thinking Mark? Whether he thought this or that, it makes little difference one way or the other. Screw his campaign promise. ~ FDR was playing the big game and a lot was at stake. Your parents very existence for one, the “free world” for another.

            You are getting lost in side issues of personality and the dynamics of political posture and even trying to get personal with me.

            I think you should barf, maybe try an enema, a good purge of whatever your full of should offer great benefit.

            You got nothing, but a head full of mush, half baked ideas and trying to make national politics personal and rewrite history I suppose.

            You got ZIP! ~ Trying to make a day time soap out of major historical events, attempting to convince people FDR wronged the American people and we wear the curse today, is my guess. The “victim mentality” are you Jewish? You probably wasn’t some much a twinkle in you Grand Dad’s eye at the time ~ Get over it and move on.

            I’m not defending FDR, there’s no need to, attack all you wish. Get personal, get small, get tiny, tell us of the many wrongs of FDR.

            What’s your next plan , attack my spelling?

            I’ve offered you data that address issues of substances

            Until you bring forward something of substance, There’s no need in to respond to your asinine post. I mistook you for a normal intelligent person that held interest in current events and history.

            >>Ronald Reagan’s policies initiated not only the solution to the Carter Malaise (a recession equal to or greater than what we’re experiencing now) they initiate a an economic boom, and a wealth of R&D that came to fruition under Clinton.<<

            Ronnie Regan was a "pitch man" to the highest bidder of Special Interest, a career that was started in the late 50's when his acting skills came up "lacking" and a Turn Coat to his party.

            Reagan unleashed Corporate America on the American People to milk them dry, Junk Bonds, Hedge Funds, Hostile takeovers and sell-offs, Raiding of pension Funds, Predatory lending, Predatory services, plausible deniable, failed to support labor and the working man, deferred blame the norm,gave us Zero Government accountability and Zero Special Interest accountability.

            I helped him get elected and watched it happen in disbelief. The Wall Street crowd and special interest loved him and Granny did too! And 34 years ago Carter warned all American's of the pitfall of imported crude. But we failed to hear. Also he inherited a failing economy from Nixon, I doubt if you remember the freezing of wages and prices. And it wasn't Nixon's fault as all the soldiers came home to fewer and fewer jobs and defense contractors were scaling back. ~ It was the effects of a war coming to a close.

            Enough of you, already

          • Bob Wire

            >>”And please tell me … I seem to have missed this somewhere … just why were FDR’s programs so terrific? I repeat my point that even FDR himself almost decided not to run again in 1940 because HE KNEW his programs had done NOTHING to ameliorate the situation. It was only his claim to be against entering the war that allowed his re election.”<<

            Again you commentary, "He Knew" means little and then to suggest created programs ineffective, "doing nothing" or ameliorate is not consistent with the facts offered by history. While it might be true, Santa may have snubbed a few come Christmas, everyone not getting what they might have hoped for, ( my folks refer to it as a Hard Rock-Candy Christmas) It's all there in the annals of history Mark. Read several, we assume you came here at some level of preparedness.

  • Bob Wire

    >> ““There is nothing to fear except the persistent refusal to find out the truth, the persistent refusal to analyze the cause of happening.” —Dorothy Thompson

    There is absolutely no need for military conquest. Changing human liberty to fascism is done gradually… even if it takes 100 years. Here’s how:”<<

    Now what kind of "lead In" is that?

    Nothing to fear but the refusal to find out the truth!

    and the refusal to assimilate the data!

    So what does that mean? We are lackadaisical in search for the "truth"?

    and who's truth? mine , yours, Dick Chaney's truth? Berni Madeoff's, Jimmy Hoffa's?

    We so often return to the grass knoll in search for the illusive truth.

    The statement ;"truth is changing human liberties it fascism" is some kind of oxymoron, one ruling out the other and makes little sense.

    Now a country can turn fascist, we seen it done recently.

    America was and to some degree still is walking on the edge of fascism.

    Those of us that didn't agree with 43's little war program came under constant personal attacks by the minions of ditto head supporters.

    We were called unAmerican, unchristian, ungodly, traitors and a disgrace for just voicing opposing views. I've been threaten with guns.

    As far as I'm conserned , people were going fricking
    .

  • Bob Wire

    >> ““There is nothing to fear except the persistent refusal to find out the truth, the persistent refusal to analyze the cause of happening.” —Dorothy Thompson

    There is absolutely no need for military conquest. Changing human liberty to fascism is done gradually… even if it takes 100 years. Here’s how:”<<

    Now what kind of "lead In" is that suppose to be?

    Nothing to fear but the refusal to find out the truth!

    and the refusal to assimilate the data!

    So what does that mean? We are lackadaisical in search for the "truth"?

    and who's truth? mine , yours, Dick Chaney's truth? Berni Madeoff's, Jimmy Hoffa's?

    We so often return to the grass knoll in search for the illusive truth.

    The statement ;"truth is changing human liberties it fascism" is some kind of oxymoron, one ruling out the other and makes little sense.

    Now a country can turn fascist, we seen it done recently. The history books are full of accounts. Counties taken over and not a shot fired!

    America was and to some degree still is, walking on the edge of fascism.

    Those of us that didn't agree with 43's little war program came under constant personal attacks by the minions of ditto head supporters.

    We were called unAmerican, unchristian, ungodly, traitors and a disgrace for just voicing opposing views. I've been threaten with guns.

    There are placed in small Texas towns where you couldn't buy or rent Fahrenheit 9-11, " OH no! we don't carry that! That just Bush bashing!"

    As far as I'm conserned , people were going fricking nuts. You are still nuts!

    I haven't forgot the insanity. I haven't forgot the propaganda machine that is still in place and alive and well, spreading poison, claiming "The truth is sold here" , "The No Spin Zone" ? well if there no spin, why bother mentioning it?

    I enjoy lively debate and offering resistance to false reasoning.

    My only reason for being here. For it's needed.
    .

    • JimH

      Bob,ThankGod your here to show us the error of our ways. We’re so hopeless, we couldn’t possibly get by without you to show us the way.( sarcasm) Bob a legend in his own mind.

      • Bob Wire

        Well, let me thank you from the heart of my bottom for such kind words.

        ~ When you have a lead-in suggesting the only fear we have is a refusal to pursue the pesky “truth” and people blaming the Great Depression on the weather, and the current down turn on the Democrat’s ,Acorn and Barny Frank in particular, stating the Democrat’s “made Wall Street” commit fraud, mislabel product and sell them world wide. While overlooking a 4 Trillion dollar war to no where, economic disparity across the nation much like 29, trade imbalance much like 29, with bankers making huge sums of money, that most could never dream off. I’d say, the failure to locate and assimilate the truth just one of many things to fear.

        When people offer Regan’s policy’s created the conditions that allowed Clinton era to boom, fails to take in account all the people that was completely devastated under Regan’s tenure and no longer in existence or in a position to compete, leaving more opportunity for fewer people. By killing off of 1/3 of your population, the ones that remain will experience bountiful harvest every time. The Black plague that devastated Europe had much the same effect as Regan’s policies, after a good pruning they came back with new vigor and opportunity abundant.

        This is much the same as we see today, ~ too many people, to few opportunities. The bulk of opportunities having been out sourced and shipped over seas, to satisfy preferred quarterly P&L statements. Big business don’t give a damn about America or American’s, they can darn near live anywhere they find pleasant weather and a placid government that offers them consideration and allowances.

        There are many “truths” not just “one” and many things to fear.

        It’s the collective spirit of the people that shapes and forms any nation. Each nation seems to get their just “Rewards”. Myself, I tire with “this” nation building for “others” while my is stands in decay. I love to see bridges built to nowhere for it’s only then that it becomes somewhere and the people will follow. Grand Civil projects renew the spirit and strength of a nation. Common causes, common ideas unite people, it shouldn’t have to be war.

        We need to pull our head out of our collective backsides and get back to seriously taking real pride in our nation, not the false pride I’ve been hearing and seeing, We should be proud to pay our taxes and know the money spent well. We should know who our friend really are and consider them as we forge policy. Invest in ourselves, invest in our friends.

        • Mark

          “We should be proud to pay our taxes and know the money spent well.” ~~ Bob Wire.

          When I stop laughing so hard, I might acctually get around to answering this utterly clownish assertion.

          • Bob Wire

            I’ll stick with my clownish statement, I think “it should be” an honor and duty to pay taxes. And that it’s not seen in such a light by all American’s, I think sad. But we have good reason for feeling the way we do. We have been screwed over by government. We’ve been penalized for achieving, we are asked to compete on an unlevel playing field. Our money spent unwisely, in a rich man folly, war profiteering, kick backs, rewarding foolish behavior of the elite.

            We are policed to be responsible citizen, demanded to be responsible while both government and Big Business behaves in Cavalier fashion, immune to responsibility.

            This history of behavior breeds contempt among tax payer and creates the climate we seen today, where someone might feel the notion of honor foolish or clownish.

            I remember my 76 years old grandfather and 73 grandmother picking up pecan until their hands were black as a coal, for two weeks, just to pay school taxes. He was so proud they could do it, ~ though he never went to school and could only write his name. It was a big obligation off his mind. Of course now, seniors are not required to pay school taxes, but he died before then.

  • Jim H.

    Your statement ” There are many truths not just one”, is false. The is only THE TRUTH. The trick is to find it.

    • Bob Wire

      I thought the very same thing for a very long time. There “should” be but one truth. It doesn’t not please me to think other wise.

      But my pleasure is of little importance it seems.

      When you find the “one truth” give us the heads up.

      • Jim H.

        There are many beliefs, many opinions, and THE TRUTH. Keep looking Bob, I still am, maybe some day We’ll find it. What an eye opener it will be, too.

  • Mark

    “When people offer Regan’s(sic) policy’s(sic) created the conditions that allowed Clinton era to boom, fails to take in account all the people that(sic) was(sic) completely devastated under Regan’s(sic) tenure and no longer in existence or in a position to compete, leaving more opportunity for fewer people. By killing off of 1/3 of your population, the ones that remain will experience bountiful harvest every time. The Black plague that devastated Europe had much the same effect as Regan’s policies, after a good pruning they came back with new vigor and opportunity abundant.”~~ Bob Wire.

    This is utter twaddle. Ronald Reagan’s policies initiated not only the solution to the Carter Malaise (a recession equal to or greater than what we’re experiencing now) they initiate a an economic boom, and a wealth of R&D that came to fruition under Clinton.

    Who were “all the people that(sic) was(sic) completely devastated under Regan’s(sic) tenure and no longer in existence or in a position to compete???” Was that a lesser or greater number than those who were “devastated” under Jimma Cahtuh’s “tenure, or Billy Clinton’s … or will be under Obama’s?
    I recall the Reagan era quit well. I was just out of college, and was entering the labor field at the lowest tier … and thanks to Reagan’s policies I did pretty well for myself back then, thank you very much.
    A great many people were helped by the improving economy under Reagan (and it’s R-e-A-g-a-n, by the way)– heck, even the government did well. An expanding tax base doubled the government revenues by the end of his term. If he and the feckless kongress had handled spending better, the country would have been even better off than it was. But, then, what he actually accomplished was in spite of kongress, rather than with the aid of kongress.

    • Bob Wire

      “But, then, what he actually accomplished was in spite of kongress, rather than with the aid of kongress.” History and the record book fails to support your commentary on many levels. Would you like me to look it up for you?

      • Mark

        Look it up from where? Moveon. com?
        What happened under Reagan is well known. He had a democratic congress to deal with, and they were hardly willing to go along with every thing he wanted. Look at the spending that went on …. look at TEFRA. Reagan actually made a mistake with that, as I said in another post, and which you completly ignore. I sure as h**l don’t need you going to whatever iteration of the communist manifesto you use to provide your own spin.

  • Bob Wire

    Historical narratives matter. That’s why conservatives are still writing books denouncing F.D.R. and the New Deal; they understand that the way Americans perceive bygone eras, even eras from the seemingly distant past, affects politics today.

    Paul Krugman.

    Blogrunner: Reactions From Around the Web

    And it’s also why the furor over Barack Obama’s praise for Ronald Reagan is not, as some think, overblown. The fact is that how we talk about the Reagan era still matters immensely for American politics.

    Bill Clinton knew that in 1991, when he began his presidential campaign. “The Reagan-Bush years,” he declared, “have exalted private gain over public obligation, special interests over the common good, wealth and fame over work and family. The 1980s ushered in a Gilded Age of greed and selfishness, of irresponsibility and excess, and of neglect.”

    Contrast that with Mr. Obama’s recent statement, in an interview with a Nevada newspaper, that Reagan offered a “sense of dynamism and entrepreneurship that had been missing.”

    Maybe Mr. Obama was, as his supporters insist, simply praising Reagan’s political skills. (I think he was trying to curry favor with a conservative editorial board, which did in fact endorse him.) But where in his remarks was the clear declaration that Reaganomics failed?

    For it did fail. The Reagan economy was a one-hit wonder. Yes, there was a boom in the mid-1980s, as the economy recovered from a severe recession. But while the rich got much richer, there was little sustained economic improvement for most Americans. By the late 1980s, middle-class incomes were barely higher than they had been a decade before — and the poverty rate had actually risen.

    When the inevitable recession arrived, people felt betrayed — a sense of betrayal that Mr. Clinton was able to ride into the White House.

    Given that reality, what was Mr. Obama talking about? Some good things did eventually happen to the U.S. economy — but not on Reagan’s watch.

    For example, I’m not sure what “dynamism” means, but if it means productivity growth, there wasn’t any resurgence in the Reagan years. Eventually productivity did take off — but even the Bush administration’s own Council of Economic Advisers dates the beginning of that takeoff to 1995.

    Similarly, if a sense of entrepreneurship means having confidence in the talents of American business leaders, that didn’t happen in the 1980s, when all the business books seemed to have samurai warriors on their covers. Like productivity, American business prestige didn’t stage a comeback until the mid-1990s, when the U.S. began to reassert its technological and economic leadership.

    I understand why conservatives want to rewrite history and pretend that these good things happened while a Republican was in office — or claim, implausibly, that the 1981 Reagan tax cut somehow deserves credit for positive economic developments that didn’t happen until 14 or more years had passed. (Does Richard Nixon get credit for “Morning in America”?)

    But why would a self-proclaimed progressive say anything that lends credibility to this rewriting of history — particularly right now, when Reaganomics has just failed all over again?

    Like Ronald Reagan, President Bush began his term in office with big tax cuts for the rich and promises that the benefits would trickle down to the middle class. Like Reagan, he also began his term with an economic slump, then claimed that the recovery from that slump proved the success of his policies.

    And like Reaganomics — but more quickly — Bushonomics has ended in grief. The public mood today is as grim as it was in 1992. Wages are lagging behind inflation. Employment growth in the Bush years has been pathetic compared with job creation in the Clinton era. Even if we don’t have a formal recession — and the odds now are that we will — the optimism of the 1990s has evaporated.

    This is, in short, a time when progressives ought to be driving home the idea that the right’s ideas don’t work, and never have.

    It’s not just a matter of what happens in the next election. Mr. Clinton won his elections, but — as Mr. Obama correctly pointed out — he didn’t change America’s trajectory the way Reagan did. Why?

    Well, I’d say that the great failure of the Clinton administration — more important even than its failure to achieve health care reform, though the two failures were closely related — was the fact that it didn’t change the narrative, a fact demonstrated by the way Republicans are still claiming to be the next Ronald Reagan.

    Now progressives have been granted a second chance to argue that Reaganism is fundamentally wrong: once again, the vast majority of Americans think that the country is on the wrong track. But they won’t be able to make that argument if their political leaders, whatever they meant to convey, seem to be saying that Reagan had it right.

    • Mark

      Who is rewriting history here?
      The Reagan tax cuts did in fact boost the economy. In fact, what happened was a lot of research & development happened that achieved fruition under Clinton.
      Reagan also raised taxes, lest anyone forget — remember TEFRA? He agreed to a tax hike in return for certain spending cuts from congress, and congress reniged on the deal. I have no doubt at all that the result did cool off the economy.

      “And like Reaganomics — but more quickly — Bushonomics has ended in grief. The public mood today is as grim as it was in 1992.”

      No, the public mood today — after a year and a half of Obama — is much WORSE than 1992. I well remember 1992, and that was NOTHING in comparison to today.
      Oh, and if you’re going to blame 1992 on Reagan, I fail to understand why policies enacted in the 1980s shouldn’t effect the economic climate in the ’90s.

      No country has ever spent itself into wealth. One of the few democrats who knew that was President Kennedy, who lowered taxes at the beginning of the decade of the 1960s. Even though the economy at the time was doing well, his tax cuts improved the economy. The private sector is much, much better at expanding an economy than the government, and anyone with eyes to see would understand this.

      • Bob Wire

        >>”No country has ever spent itself into wealth.”<<

        Tax cuts have the same affect on the Fed as spending, but you don't mind that spending you do? And the notion that offering tax breaks to the Wealthy somehow creates job, evidently not near enough , a small bang for a big buck.

        Allow me to beg the question, If it's as many say, we have a consumer shortage, and the bulk of the people don't have it to spend, the banks are no letting go of it and Cooperate America is spending only what's required while we still enjoy some form of ReAgan "supply side economy" who's going to supply the engine to power out of this debacle?

        I've been reading of lot of data ( too huge to copy and paste ) but taxes for the ~~ gotta go!

        • Mark

          “Tax cuts have the same affect on the Fed as spending, but you don’t mind that spending you do? And the notion that offering tax breaks to the Wealthy somehow creates job, evidently not near enough , a small bang for a big buck.”~~ Bob Wire.

          No, the tax cuts under Reagan increased the country’s productivity and by the end of Reagan’s term, government revenue had doubled. The problem was congress SPENT it, and more.
          Get your facts straight.

          • Bob Wire

            You are Right Mark, everyone knows what happen under Reagan, here a nice recap for you to boost about.

            Reagan’s Legacy: Homelessness in America
            By Peter Dreier

            As some Americans mourn the death of Ronald Reagan, let us recall that the two-term president was no friend to America’s cities or its poor. Reagan came to office in 1981 with a mandate to reduce federal spending. In reality, he increased it through the escalating military budget, all the while slashing funds for domestic programs that assisted working class Americans, particularly the poor.

            Reagan’s fans give him credit for restoring the nation’s prosperity. But whatever economic growth occurred during the Reagan years only benefited those already well off. The income gap between the rich and everyone else in America widened. Wages for the average worker declined and the nation’s homeownership rate fell. During Reagan’s two terms in the White House, which were boon times for the rich, the poverty rate in cities grew.

            His indifference to urban problems was legendary. Reagan owed little to urban voters, big-city mayors, black or Hispanic leaders, or labor unions – the major advocates for metropolitan concerns. Early in his presidency, at a White House reception, Reagan greeted the only black member of his Cabinet, Housing and Urban Development (HUD) Secretary Samuel Pierce, saying: “How are you, Mr. Mayor? I’m glad to meet you. How are things in your city?”

            Reagan not only failed to recognize his own HUD Secretary, he failed to deal with the growing corruption scandal at the agency that resulted in the indictment and conviction of top Reagan administration officials for illegally targeting housing subsidies to politically connected developers. Fortunately for Reagan, the “HUD Scandal” wasn’t uncovered until he’d left office.

            Reagan also presided over the dramatic deregulation of the nation’s savings and loan industry allowing S&Ls to end their reliance on home mortgages and engage in an orgy of commercial real estate speculation. The result was widespread corruption, mismanagement and the collapse of hundreds of thrift institutions that ultimately led to a taxpayer bailout that cost hundreds of billions of dollars.

            The 1980s saw pervasive racial discrimination by banks, real estate agents and landlords, unmonitored by the Reagan administration. Community groups uncovered blatant redlining by banks using federal Home Mortgage Disclosure Act information. But Reagan’s HUD and justice departments failed to prosecute or sanction banks that violated the Community Reinvestment Act, which prohibits racial discrimination in lending. During that time, of the 40,000 applications from banks requesting permission to expand their operations, Reagan’s bank regulators denied only eight of them on grounds of violating CRA regulations.

            By the end of Reagan’s term in office federal assistance to local governments was cut 60 percent. Reagan eliminated general revenue sharing to cities, slashed funding for public service jobs and job training, almost dismantled federally funded legal services for the poor, cut the anti-poverty Community Development Block Grant program and reduced funds for public transit. The only “urban” program that survived the cuts was federal aid for highways – which primarily benefited suburbs, not cities.

            These cutbacks had a disastrous effect on cities with high levels of poverty and limited property tax bases, many of which depended on federal aid. In 1980 federal dollars accounted for 22 percent of big city budgets. By the end of Reagan’s second term, federal aid was only 6 percent.

            The consequences were devastating to urban schools and libraries, municipal hospitals and clinics, and sanitation, police and fire departments – many of which had to shut their doors.

            Reagan is lauded as “the great communicator,” but he sometimes used his rhetorical skills to stigmatize the poor. During his stump speeches while dutifully promising to roll back welfare, Reagan often told the story of a so-called “welfare queen” in Chicago who drove a Cadillac and had ripped off $150,000 from the government using 80 aliases, 30 addresses, a dozen social security cards and four fictional dead husbands. Journalists searched for this “welfare cheat” in the hopes of interviewing her and discovered that she didn’t exist.

            The imagery of “welfare cheats” that persists to this day helped lay the groundwork for the 1996 welfare reform law, pushed by Republicans and signed by President Clinton.

            The most dramatic cut in domestic spending during the Reagan years was for low-income housing subsidies. Reagan appointed a housing task force dominated by politically connected developers, landlords and bankers. In 1982 the task force released a report that called for “free and deregulated” markets as an alternative to government assistance – advice Reagan followed. In his first year in office Reagan halved the budget for public housing and Section 8 to about $17.5 billion. And for the next few years he sought to eliminate federal housing assistance to the poor altogether.

            In the 1980s the proportion of the eligible poor who received federal housing subsidies declined. In 1970 there were 300,000 more low-cost rental units (6.5 million) than low-income renter households (6.2 million). By 1985 the number of low-cost units had fallen to 5.6 million, and the number of low-income renter households had grown to 8.9 million, a disparity of 3.3 million units.

            Another of Reagan’s enduring legacies is the steep increase in the number of homeless people, which by the late 1980s had swollen to 600,000 on any given night – and 1.2 million over the course of a year. Many were Vietnam veterans, children and laid-off workers.

            In early 1984 on Good Morning America, Reagan defended himself against charges of callousness toward the poor in a classic blaming-the-victim statement saying that “people who are sleeping on the grates…the homeless…are homeless, you might say, by choice.”

            Tenant groups, community development corporations and community organizations fought to limit the damage done by Reagan’s cutbacks. Some important victories were won when Clinton entered office – the expansion of the Earned Income Tax Credit and stronger enforcement of the CRA. Funding for low-income housing, legal services, job training and other programs has never been restored to pre-Reagan levels, and the widening disparities between the rich and the rest persist.

            President George W. Bush, who often claims Reagan’s mantle, recently proposed cutting one-third of the Section 8 housing vouchers – a lifeline against homelessness for two million poor families.

            We’ve already named a major airport, schools and streets after Ronald Reagan, and since his death some people have suggested other ways to celebrate his memory. Perhaps a more fitting tribute to his legacy would be for each American city to name a park bench – where at least one homeless person sleeps every night – in honor of our 40th president.

            Copyright 2004

            Peter Dreier is the E.P. Clapp Distinguished Professor of Politics and director of the Urban and Environmental Policy program at Occidental College in Los Angeles. He has co-authored two books, Place Matters: Metropolitics for the 21st Century and The Next LA: The Struggle for a Livable City, which will be published later this year.

            ~~ Hmm? ~ so you are saying ~ the number of poor are the same today?

            How do you know such things? I don’t see how that’s possible considering all the funding that’s been withdrawn. ~ I’d think anyone would miss that amount of cash flow regardless of position.

      • Bob Wire

        >>”Who is rewriting history here?”<< Conservatives apparently, It seem that's their standard approach to failure. Reverse things, ~ To lose is to win! To be a minority is to be a majority. Don't blame the match for the fire but the condition of the forest. Don't blame the user of the tool for poor results, blame the creator of the tool. Don't blame Wall Street, blame the people that encouraged Wall Street to address needs. The list is long of misconstrued attempts to alter issues and parties responsible for failure. It fails on both side of the isle.

        The present climate is just more deferred responsibility and people refusing to man up and put their big boy britches on.

        The American people have finally got wise to this and until conservatives quit supporting people that employ such tactics and start singing from the same piece of sheet music as the rest of us, they going to have a problem with securing a general election.

        The American people are not stupid, just naive and busy with their lives. We've sent people to the hill to address serious matters. It clear who's a part of the problem and who's a part of the solution. In spite of these many efforts to jade the issues and restrict correction.

  • Bob Wire

    MIDDLE CLASS ANXIETY: WHO’S REALLY TO BLAME?

    For the last seven years or so, sociologists have noted that middle class frustration is rising. Economists tell us that this will be the first American generation that will be unable to live better than its parents; and this has translated into growing voter anger and revolt. The media has nicknamed this movement “the radical middle,” and it correctly perceives that neither party in Washington is looking out after its interests. A 1995 Gallup poll found that 60 percent of all Americans favor the creation of a third party. This is a truly stunning number.

    So, who’s to blame for the stagnation of the middle class? Some might criticize this very question, pointing out that there is too much blame in American politics already, and not enough personal responsibility. This is certainly true, but it does not negate the appropriateness of blame under the right circumstances. For example, we correctly blame a criminal for raping and murdering a family member, and the criminal does not get off the hook by accusing the bereaved family of playing the blame game. When something has gone very wrong, accurately identifying the cause is the first step in correcting it. Otherwise, reform becomes impossible.

    The genius of the corporate special interest system has been to transfer the blame for middle class stagnation from the rich to the poor. Reagan conjured up Welfare Queens driving Welfare Cadillacs who didn’t even exist, as the press later discovered. Meanwhile, insider traders riding in limousines did exist — like Ivan Boesky — and they ripped off the public for thousands of times more money than welfare cheats. Unfortunately, they escaped the notoriety of becoming Presidential campaign themes. George Bush rescued his sinking 1988 campaign by focusing on a single criminal — Willie Horton — even though the $500 billion Savings and Loan disaster was developing at the same time, only behind the scenes.

    Politicians find it popular to run against crime, welfare, illegitimacy, affirmative action, immigration, and anything else that is usually attributed to the poor. But voters should keep a few points in mind. First, the poor cannot afford lobbyists to protect their interests in Washington, or advertising campaigns to sway public opinion, or well-financed operations to organize their political agenda. And that is why they make easy targets, both at budget and election time. Second, our government has been bought and paid for by corporate special interests. If you may recall an earlier statistic on this webpage, corporations form 67 percent of all PACs, and make 79 percent of all contributions to the political parties. If voters are angry with the way this nation is being run, then corporations are the ones most responsible. Third, the poor actually have a small impact on society, as the following statistics will show. For example, Welfare comprises only 1 percent of the federal budget. Even a generous definition of welfare — including school lunches and student grants — comprises only 12 percent of the budget. In American politics, as the cliché goes, a very small tail is wagging a mighty large dog.

    • Mark

      Bob Wire … the “poor” hardly need their own lobbyists. They have their own paid spokespeople in the communist wing of the demonrat party. They have been incredibly busy transfering wealth from the “rich” to (supposedly) the poor for the last fifty years.
      It hasn’t worked. If it had worked, there’d BE NO POOR out there. But we have about the same % of poor people now as we’ve had for a long time.
      The government is impotent in this regard … as long as the poor keep doing what makes them poor, they will stay poor. And the govt. can’t make them change. The democrats don’t really want them to either — they’d lose a large part of their constituency if that happened.

      • Denniso

        The Democrats have been trying to keep the poor from rotting in slums and there has never been enough resources directed at the ‘poor’. If as you say,the ‘communist’ democrats have been shoveling money in wheelbarrow loads at the poor to no avail,where has all the money gone? I guess the poor are all driving nice new cars and living in big houses they received from the gov’t money? Are they dining in the best restaurants and sending their kids to the best colleges? No?

        Oh, that’s right,they only got gov’t cheese,a couple hundred a month in food stamps and a rented 2 bedroom house in the rough area of town.

        • Keith

          LOL, I know many that drive new cars and have multiple freezers and shelves stocked with more food than they know what to do with. Yet, the live in a shanty to qualify for section 8. Amazing what people will do to scam the government.

        • Mark

          Real cute, but that doesn’t answer why we still have about the same % of “poor” around than we did in the 1960s.
          When you subsidize a lifestyle, you will never eliminate it.
          Fifty years of “great society” programs haven’t but barely touched it, if at all.
          The “poor” may not be driving fancy cars, but that was never the point, was it?
          All the wrist-wringing, emotional appeals change nothing.

          • Denniso

            You miss the point…we have given the poor just enough to stay alive,but not enough to actually remove them from the deep rut of poverty…when kids are born into and raised in deep poverty,crime,violence,most of them don’t escape. They are mostly trapped in it from a young age.

            Most Americans who complain about the programs and money invested in trying to end poverty also don’t recognise that an underclass and poverty class are inherent in a capitalist system that doesn’t actively counter the systemic issues that are a direct result of the system itself. It’s essentially a law of economics that dictates a defined class structure w/ an affluent upperclass and a poverty wracked lower class. Look at history and at other countries and you see the same thing,and it’s not as simple as saying that the poor are lazy and always exist as a definite percentage of all populations. That’s the politically correct thing for the Repubs to spout,but it’s
            untrue.

      • Bob Wire

        >>”Bob Wire … the “poor” hardly need their own lobbyists. They have their own paid spokespeople in the communist wing of the demonrat party.”<<

        First off Mark; You are not one to know much about what anyone "needs" but yourself.

        Second; there is no communist wing to the DNC.

        Today, anyone that wants address and the attention of government has lobbyist. ~ I'm not suggesting it right, only that it "is"

        It's part of the payola program. An inside ear and hopeful "fix" , paid consideration!

        How the weather up there in the Ivory Tower today? There can be no top without a strong bottom Mark.

    • Keith

      Um, another with excellent command of liberal talking points. First of all, the S&L scandal broke while Reagan was in office and was over (at least in the media) by the time Bush started running for office. Likewise, only 2 Willie Horton ads were ever ran. One, ran by the Republicans and the other ran by Willie Horton’s Maryland victims. The Republican ad never showed a pic of Horton and never identified his race, while the ad by his Maryland victims did provide a pic of him. The left went nuts claiming the Republicans were racist for using the Willie Horton ad when they never used it to identify race, it was the victims who identified it.

  • http://N/A Steve

    Voting is not the answer; we got Bush(jr.) without his winning the first election, and the second time, do you really think the majority of people voted for him (though Kerry was not much of an alternative) I stopped voting when I realized that our vote does not count THEY will have whoever they want in office. Also isn’t it funny that Bush(republican) and Kerry (democrat) both were in the same Skull and Bones sociaty. Very cozy and very interesting. Thomas Jefferson was right we need a new revolution.

    • Mark

      Actually, Shrubby won the 2000 election. SCOTUS simply told Florida they couldn’t change their regulations on counting votes in the middle of the election, the result of a crude attempt to pull a demonrat victory from out of the jaws of the repugnicans.
      Having said that … do you REALLY propose a violent revolution to overthrow the “powers that be??”
      You will lose … and the results will be much worse than what we have.

  • Keith

    Well folks, here is the kicker. Tax cuts are not going to spur our economy now. Why? Most manufacturing has left for China. That was the driver of the supply side economics. It works as long as there is a manufacturing base. But, most of that is gone now. Unfortunately, we are headed for a wordwide economic crash and soon. The crash of 2008 was a minor correction to what is coming. Logically speaking rising home prices outpaced rising incomes by huge margins over the last couple of decades. This trend could not continue and it didn’t. As a result, the housing sector that had been creating most of the jobs in this country crashed, bringing a lot of other sectors down with it. Now they are trying to pump those bubbles back up but it will not work. We will see a national debt of somewhere between $15 and $25 Trillion and then our creditors will shut off our credit line. When that happens, the government will have no choice but to monetize the debt. We will see multiple hundreds of percent inflation that will ultimately cause the dollar to collapse. When that happens, the government will not be able to pay its debt, then the government debt bubble will also collapse. The resutl is going to be no wealthy person left in this country. The working (middle class) will have to shoulder 60 – 80% income taxes to pay for the 40 – 60 percent unemployment. Yep, socialism is going to work so well in this country.

    • Denniso

      you’ve convinced yourself that the sky is really falling..it’s not,and we will recover if slowly.

    • Bob Wire

      Insightful posting Keith but to summarize it with, “yep socialism has worked so well in this country” (sarcasm), just defeats the thrust of your fine post.

      Are you somehow suggesting degrees of socialism the “cause” of our (and the worlds) economic problems today. Or that perhaps, Venture Capitalism the only answer?

      Any country need to conduct it’s affairs much like a family owned business. The desired efforts and effects “needs” to be a “win/win” situation for everyone involved, addressing each parties self interest on some equitable level . You can’t give things away that are not yours to give, nor can we expect to bribe or steal our way through life. ~ For there will come a day of reckoning, the account will be paid, somewhere at sometime by someone.

      What we are presently experiencing is years of disparity, poor business practices that serve only a few at the cost of many.

      The question before us today,is how do we put the Genie back in the bottle without creating a total meltdown. As we are being held hostage by special interest and they’re demanding ransom, of sweet deals and special privileges, (immunity) the rest of us don’t enjoy. To be permitted to conduct affairs much like a freight train crossing, “any questions of “Ties” the train wins.

      This is a tough question to answer, for we don’t all agree as you bring forward with your closing and wishing to blame socialism. ( I guess?)

      There is many “things” to offer blame, ~ stealing, thieving, lying, cheating, deferred responsibility ,no responsibility, the wrong people placed in the wrong job, (Chaney or Rumsfield for example)

      It’s easy for us to want to just throw up our hands and start over, claiming it’s too broken to fix. Some people would really like that, managing to profit from chaos like carpetbaggers and buzzards.

      The word “socialism” imply many things ~ As large as our nation is, our power, our diving force is in the “collective” ~ but it’s not the only answer but only as good as the people engaged in the process.

      We find it easy to blame the “tools” for bad work, but it’s the “user” that should be held accountable and not the tool. We need to be smarter then the hammer, the hammer knows no difference between a thumb or a nail.

      It was through collective efforts and individual spirit that has brought America to this point in time for the better or worse of it.

      We have allowed special interest to control government. As recent as last month when banking reform came up on the floor. We could not muster enough votes to limit the size of banks while “ALL” in agreement “TOO BIG to FAIL” a very serious problem and subject to be repeated if not corrected.

  • http://BobLivingston Gary

    Stop voting in the same people who do nothing to better the country.I believe it’s time to vote in new people who believe in the Constitution and The Bill of Rights.What is happening to this country is a subtle and silent taking away of our freedoms and the true American way of life.One major point forgotten by most Americans is this,we are a republic not a democracy and it’s a government of the people,by the people and for the people. I think we should do our best to take back what is ours.Vote out the SAME OLD FACES THAT HAVE BEEN THERE FOR TOO MANY YEARS,GETTING PAID TOO MUCH FOR DOING NOTHING!If we the people do not make the correct decisions we stand a good chance of losing everything we have worked so hard for all our lives!

  • hundabuxt

    Gary

    You’re pretty much correct. We’ve been programed to reelect our representatives even though he or she is an SOB, they’re our SOB and longivity brings with it senior power to bring home the bacon. So we’ve become addicted to the shortcomings of the system. Term limits, limited time and money spent on campaigning and NO and I mean NO Abramoff like lobbiests with unlimited expense accounts. High priced lobbiests have bought our government, which has precipitated most of the problems we have not the least of which is inequitable taxation. Multi-million dollar corporations might pay as little as 1% tax because of tax havens and escoteric exemptions while someone making $67,000 has to pay 25%. There’s something very wrong here and until we change it its only going to get worse so get used to it.

  • Bob Wire

    agreed ! but let us not too hasty and get rid of the good ones in our zeal for reform and just new faces okay!

    We have “some” good people on the hill, locate them and support them too!

    I hate guilt by pure association !

  • Dave

    Bob, so generous of you to prove statement after statement what an ideological idiot is. A fairly bright person who cannot see what is right in front of them because they are incapable of being objective.

  • mmc

    Watch HACKING DEMOCRACY on Youtube.

    It shows that the vote counting system is complete fraud from top to bottom, the polls, the electronic voting, the non-electronic voting.

    Bancorp owns Diebold/ES&S. Who owns Bancorp?

    I have no doubt it is the Rothschild empire in some form.

  • http://www.getloanbadcredit.com/ www.10needcash.com

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