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How Much Do You Think I Deserve To Keep?

September 19, 2011 by  

How Much Do You Think I Deserve To Keep?

One of the best questions ever asked in a political debate was posed by a young man at last week’s GOP debate in Tampa, Fla.

He asked, “Out of every dollar that I earn, how much of that do you think I deserve to keep?” Moderator Wolf Blitzer directed the question to former Utah Governor Jon Huntsman, who said: “…for you we leave it at 8 percent, 14 percent, 24 percent.” Then Blitzer moved the discussion to corporate tax breaks.

The original question wasn’t posed to any of the other candidates. Why? And why did they not come back to answer the question later?

Because the questioner touched on a subject sensitive to the elites. They think the money we earn is theirs and we should keep only what they, in their infinite mercy, allow us to have.

Under the Law of Moses, 10 percent was enough for the Creator. Under the law of the political elites, it is 30 percent, 40 percent, 50 percent and more if they decide they want it.

The American people have been sold a bill of goods. They have been conditioned to believe that government is necessary to thwart all the evils in society. Those evils must be confronted by a myriad of alphabet soup agencies like the EPA, FDA, USDA, OSHA, NLRB, HHS, HUD, DOE (both energy and education), and on and on, ad infinitum.

To fund those agencies that keep us safe, Americans are told, more of their hard-earned wealth is required of them. Thus, the leviathan grows. The people grumble, but their grumbling is squelched by the elites and the majority who remind them the government is only acting in their best interests.

Any talk of possibly scaling back the growth of those agencies is quickly suppressed. If the budgets of those agencies are touched, we are told, pollution will flow uncontrollably from industry, the water will be poisoned, our food will kill us, terrorists will run amok in our streets and the greedy capitalists will abuse us. No rational discussion of alternatives is possible because people automatically default to government.

A very recent example of this tactic comes from Representative Jan Schakowsky (D-Ill). She said:

I’ll put it this way. You don’t deserve to keep all of it and it’s not a question of deserving because what government is, is those things that we decide to do together. And there are many things that we decide to do together like have our national security. Like have police and fire. What about the people that work at the National Institute of Health who are looking for a cure for cancer.

This is the standard fallback. Thus, those agencies grow into monstrous bureaucracies that oppress Americans under the guise of keeping them safe. Those bureaucracies consume everything in their paths: innovation, spirit, can-do attitudes, the family structure, societal mores and capital.

Taxes, the elites say, are necessary to fund the government. That is Orwellian doublespeak. Taxes are used by the elites to control our consumption and redistribute the volume of money. The Federal Reserve floods the market with electronic blips and green strips of paper it calls “dollars.” We use those dollars to buy things we need. The price of those things goes up as more and more money is dumped into the system. (Actually, prices don’t go up. The reality is that those dollars are each worth less as more and more are introduced into circulation, so more and more dollars are required to buy the same goods.)

President James A. Garfield said, “Whoever controls the volume of money in any country is absolute master of all industry and commerce.” The elites understand this. The American people do not.

In a speech before the American Bar Association in 1946, then-Federal Reserve Chairman Beardsley Ruml said, “The necessity for a government to tax in order to maintain both its independence and solvency is true for State and local governments, but it is not true for a national government.”

How can this be?

It’s simple logic — so simple that most can’t fathom it. The Federal government can and does print money to infinity. Therefore, the idea that the Federal government needs your tax dollars to operate is a fallacy, a lie.

Ask yourself this question: If I can print all the money I want to use as I want, will I have debt or ever face default? The answer is obvious.

Now, President Barack Obama is proposing a “new” plan. In reality it is an old plan, one that has failed before if success is measured in a way that helps the people. He intends to transfer more wealth from the middle class to his elite partners in crime. This is theft from the American people to those who have bought themselves a seat at the elite table.

It involves squeezing more money out those who work. The plan will be “paid for,” Obama promises. How? By raising taxes and closing loopholes, while all along taxes are already going up to “pay for” Obamacare and the value of our “dollars” is going down because of QE1 and QE2 and TARP and stimulus and bailouts.

According to the Bible, after the death of King Solomon, “… Jeroboam and all the assembly of Israel came and spoke to Rehoboam, saying, ‘Your father made our yoke hard; now therefore lighten the hard service of your father and his heavy yoke which he put on us, and we will serve you.’”

But Rehoboam rejected the advice of the elders to lighten the yoke of the people and win them over. Instead, he listened to the advice of the young men who said, “But you shall speak to them, ‘My little finger is thicker than my father’s loins! Whereas my father loaded you with a heavy yoke, I will add to your yoke; my father disciplined you with whips, but I will discipline you with scorpions.’” (1 Kings 12)

The majority of the people abandoned Rehoboam, and Israel was split in two.

Former President George W. Bush put a heavy yoke on the people. Obama has added to the yoke. The result is a record number of poor people: 46 million Americans are now considered poor, 22 percent of all American children are living in poverty, unemployment is at 9.1 percent.

The people are rejecting Obama. His disapproval ratings are historic. In New York, a little-known and underfunded Republican beat a Democrat for a House seat held by Democrats for almost 100 years. It has nothing to do with Obama, his minions say. Move along. Nothing to see here. Doublespeak.

But take care before crowing and supporting the Republican elite. They are wolves in sheep’s clothing. Though not as brazen as Schakowsky, they believe as she does. That is why you are not hearing any of the GOP candidates talk about cutting the size of government. None, that is, save one. And it’s not Governor Rick Perry, former Governors Mitt Romney or Jon Huntsman. It’s not Representative Michele Bachmann, who wants to eliminate whole unConstitutional government agencies. Nor is it former Speaker Newt Gingrich or former Senator Rick Santorum. It isn’t even Herman Cain. They believe that what you earn is theirs, except what they decree you should have.

Listen carefully to their words. Do you hear them speak about anything beyond a “Washington cut,” which doesn’t really mean cut?

Contrary to what everyone thinks, printing more and more paper money does not create abundance. It creates more scarcity. Everybody has less and less. Greed is the endgame of a paper-money system, and it brings with it a moral breakdown with the collapse of the rule of law.

In short, paper-money debasement destroys the soul of society. But the longer the elites can keep this a secret, the longer they can maintain their hold on power.

Bob Livingston

is an ultra-conservative American who has been writing a newsletter since 1969. Bob has devoted much of his life to research and the quest for truth on a variety of subjects. Bob specializes in health issues such as nutritional supplements and alternatives to drugs, as well as issues of privacy (both personal and financial), asset protection and the preservation of freedom.

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  • DaveH
    • DaveH

      The MSM doesn’t want people to wake up:
      http://www.huntingtonnews.net/9134

      • slapjack

        Try Fox News!!!!!!!

        • FreedomFighter

          TSA will now grop you kids, wife, girlfriend, mother, father and little babies at NFL football games. TSA type groping coming to shopping centers, grocery stores, and police highway checkpoints.

          This is freekin insane.

          http://www.youtube.com/user/TheAlexJonesChannel?blend=1&ob=5

          Steal your money and molest you, this goverment is way out of control.

          Laus Deo
          Semper Fi

          • Lewis Munn

            Put a mousetrap in each pocket

          • Christin

            Love it, Lewis Munn!

        • Kate8

          slapjack – Really? I think it’s all an illusion. Just another way to control our thinking while making us think we think independently.

          For example: “O’Reilly on the FoxNews Channel (also) tries to portray himself as just another ‘ordinary guy’ (one of the folks), may give people the feeling that they can identify with him, as if he is an ‘ordinary guy’ that is on their level, and not a haughty, intellectual, or elitist. The only catch is that this ‘ordinary guy’ is a gazillionaire, the PNAC spokesperson, whose friends are the CEOs of the oil industry, and, as of summer 2006, who has the US military and Congress by the spurs.” –Corporatism, by Jeffrey Grupp.

          None of us think for ourselves, even if we think we do. Our minds and thoughts are owned by the corporatist elite, all the while keeping us believing that we have choices. Even avenues of rogue thinking are carefully crafted. Every “new thought” or “new movement” was someone elses idea. They are playng with our minds and keeping even the “nonconformists” under control.

          Most people are not able to see this, and don’t want to see it. This is the worst kind of slavery…the kind where people don’t know they are slaves, and are even happy being so.

          • Robert Smith

            Riiiiiiiight Kate…. You and your god just can’t stand to see people happy, can you?

            If folks are happy what business is it of yours?

            Rob

          • Kate8

            RS – Spoken like a true cyborg.

            You should do very well in the NWO slavegrid.

          • Bud G.

            Kate8: It is interesting that you picked O’Reilly. I have never figured out why the people like him so much because he can be a very obnoxious person and talks over the people on his show. I don’t believe you can say he is a Republican and if anything he is an Independent. They do, however, present both sides of an issue of liberal and conservative views. This cannot be said of the other media; even CNN and MSNBC wouldn’t know the truth if it slapped them in the face. Tell me how many times how you seen coverage of an event such as Trumpka’s outburst on CNN or MSNBC? How many times have you seen a Republican drug through the mud with them making false claims or outright lies?
            Do you remember one very popular reporter being fired for producing what he knew was an outright lie about President Bush? He was fired solely because it was the President and the pressure that came form it. This is their game and they are good at it but the fact is they are losing audience to Fox and have been for the last few years where Fox is by far the most watched.

            The debate by the candidates for the Republican nomination being held in Tampa, where I live, was a bad idea. It was also a bad idea for CNN to host it. Why, because Tampa is majority Democrat and CNN certainly doesn’t favor the Republican candidates. Look for them though to move away from Obama as the election nears and begin pushing Hillary for President since they see Obama as abject failure and unlikely to win in 2012.

        • http://www.youtube.com/user/MrMrEinstein?feature=mhee Lee

          Fox News Ha Ha Rupert Murdock own’s them, Own’s Wall Street,My Space and other related New’s origination’s. Controlled New’s at it’s worst.
          Only thing Fox New’s has that is worth anything is Freedom Watch with Judge Neapano.Real News check Alex Jones on youtube.Prisonplanet.com or infowars.com.”This is the real new’s they sugar coat nothing.

          • Old Henry

            Thanks Lee. I saved them in my Favorites.

          • DaveH

            And John Stossel (Libertarian), and America’s Nightly Scoreboard with David Asman, and Follow the Money with Eric Bolling.

    • Robert Smith

      Didn’t some guy named Jesus come up with something like, “Rendeer onto Cesar…”

      An educated populace, roads, water, sewer, etc., should be community efforts.

      When the Roman infrastructure was taken over by the christians there was a thing called the “Dark Ages.” The sewers didn’t work, ideas were crushed…

      Isn’t it time to catch on?

      Rob

      • newspooner

        Wow! Blaming the “Dark Ages” on Christians is like blaming the “Holocaust” on Rabbis or blaming the “Holomondor” on Ukrainian peasants or blaming the “Killing Fields” on moped riders. The “Dark Ages” resulted from an increase in the size and scope of government, the same old story of oppression by the same kind of people who today call themselves “Liberals”. Governments murdered well over 100 million of their own citizens in the Twentieth Century. “Liberals” today are setting the stage for a repeat of that performance in this century.

        • Old Henry

          And newspooner, I’ll bet Rob does everything he can to minimise his burden on April 15th.

          I’ll bet he NEVER sends in EXTRA $ to DC, his state capital or his local Assessor’s Office at the County Seat.

          Do as I say, not as I do liberals!

        • JiimCO

          Well as pointed out in the column (The majority of the people abandoned Rehoboam, and Israel was split in two.) how did easing the yoke on the people Israel work out for them? Did they become a stronger more vibrant nation able to resist the many enemies that surrounded them? No one likes to pay taxes but is trading in your tax burden to your own government to be a slave under another, is not a better deal!

          Even today the people of Israel are protesting their heavy tax burden … what do you suppose will be the outcome for the state of Israel if they again abandon the next Rehoboam?

          • 1776

            hey JiimCO isreel paying tax ha we the us gives every man women and child in the state 15,000 a year yes we do. and in the bible in matthew it says that yahshua and the taught ones came to kapar nahum and they went in a house and one of the tax colletors came to kepha and ask does you master not pay the tax and he said yes ie he dont pay so kepha came to yahshua who said who do they tax the stranger or the son he said the stranger so he said that is why but to stop them from stumbling against each other go to here and cast a hook and the first fish you catch open its mouth and there you will find a gold coin give that to them.

        • DonnieB

          Religion ran the show. Just becasue it doesn’t suit your way of thinking, doesn’t mean it is not true.

        • http://www.motorcarsfinancial.com Brad

          Amen Brother

      • S.C. Murf

        The christians did it, now that’s a good one bobbie. Time to make that popping sound.

        up the hill
        airborne

        • JUKEBOX

          That’s like Obama blaming Bush for what’s happening today. The Romans did exactly what the politicians are doing today. They lived lavish lifestyles, had troops all over the known world, and kept the poor depressed.

          • slapjack

            They are called Democrats today.

          • Old Henry

            Not just Democraps Slapjack. RINOs / elitist Republicans as well.

            They are all guilty as hell.

        • Capitalist at Birth

          Roman Catholics to be more exact in conjunction with the ruling elite Kings and Princes.

          • Pat

            OH BROTHER!!!

      • Gold

        Yes, but didn’t he also say “The poor will always be with us.”

        • Lastmanstanding

          the poor have the govt and themselves to blame…”oh poor you, yes poor me.” “Those rich people did this to you…yes, your right they did!”

          What happened to personal responsibility?

          • JUKEBOX

            The liberals made personal responsibility illegal.

          • Bella

            AMEN Lastmanstanding!

          • Marten

            Yes, Lastmanstanding and CHARITY is a VICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

        • grady

          Yes he did say the poor would always be with us, because he knew wed have liberals.

          • Alex

            lol

          • JeffH

            :)

      • Angel Wannabe

        Robert Smith, it’s a well known fact they’re is a war on against Christianity in this country.__It’s also a well known fact, that the Constitution is only for a Religious moral people as Our in-alienable rights Came from God.
        Governments sole purpose was to protect those rights and keep the American people safe from foreign enemies. The United States Corporation feels the Constitution is little more than a nuisance, Hence the reason for the push of atheism among the American people. Such as public prayer, Flag killing, squashing patriotism and plain over reaching into our, private and religious lives!__ If the elites kill the Constitution once and for all, They kill the republic. The fall of the Constitution, means the rise of NWO agenda occupation__MY question to YOU is, WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO GET IT?

        • Patriot II

          Angel, you are right on!! The real issue here is how a certain unnamed entity is really trying to DESTROY US, so OWG can have its “World BreadBasket”
          We have one of the most Powerfull weapons in the World FOOD! Once they get it from us we are done. You are right Angel, most people think it is our Localized (US) issue. Can’t treat the symptom if we don’t know the real cause!!

          Patriot II

          • Angel Wannabe

            PatriotII, Thats it, if the TPTB try to keep us stupid regarding the facts, then we have nothing to fight them with, we will end up succumbing!

          • Old Henry

            Speaking of controlling our Bread Basket..

            http://cowboybyte.com/877/might-have-to-dust-off-the-boxing-mitts/#com
            ment-20587

          • Angel Wannabe

            Old Henry, Don’t know if your familiar with David Barton of Wall Builders

            http://www.wallbuilders.com/

            He has one the most extensive archive of original documents pertaining to the founders and American History there is. Check it out. I have many of his books.

          • Old Henry

            Good link Angel Wannabe. No, I had not heard of him.

            Thanks!

          • Angel Wannabe

            Old Henry, David Barton is often a guest of Glenn Beck’s shows on Fox and Now on GBTV, he was just on last week. David Barton also has I believe an hour long radio broadcast everyday, check his site for info. You will not be disappointed!

        • DaveH

          Angel,
          Why do you want to behave like the Liberals and alienate a large portion of Freedom lovers, just because they don’t believe in a supernatural being as you do?
          Did you know that 72% of the scientists in the National Academy of Scientists disbelieve that there is a God? And only 7% believe there is a God?
          Did you know that over 75% of the people in prison are Christians? And over 95% of prisoners believe there is a God?
          http://www.thinkatheist.com/notes/Percentage_of_atheists

          Freedom works because People are happier when they can believe what they want. People are happier when they can keep their own hard earned money. People are happier when they can choose their own lifestyles free from the coercive force of others.
          You weaken our argument for Freedom by making it into a religious issue. It isn’t.

          • Angel Wannabe

            Daveh, I’ll respond once, the Constitution was and is for a wholly Moral and religeous people dave. The facts don’t change just because you don’t believe in God. If anyone feels left out of the equation in this agrument, the responcibility is “they’re own”. No one is forcing you to believe in God, but the facts don’t change, just because you don’t agree. we discussed this before Dave and it gets us no where, I think were on the same side regardless of opinion. nuff said

          • Angel Wannabe

            DaveH, I hit submit before I wanted__in regards to your”Did you know that over 75% of the people in prison are Christians? And over 95% of prisoners believe there is a God?”-

            Being a Christian and following the word, will in time provide wisdom, but we still have free will, and being a christian won’t keep your azz outta trouble, if you don’t make a conscience to avoid it. Its a choice._-If you don’t want to get burned, then maintain a safe distance, from the fire.

          • crisscross

            As our Founders stated, freedom is based upon the laws of nature and nature’s God. Otherwise, there is no standard upon which we can truly rely. The Founders understood the folly of expecting a republic to last with accountability only to man, no matter how “rational.” Disagree all you want, but that’s how we wisely started. Unfortunately, our abandonment of this fundamental truth will be how we end.

          • Alex

            Dave, only atheists and people who want to remain morally or ethically unaccountable consider any talk of God a problem. So I have to completely disagree with you. We talk of God, and you aren’t alienated.

            Now, did YOU know that if 72% of scientists weren’t pushing a heathen agenda, forcing our children to be brought up in a godless country with eroding morals, that our prisons might be a lot emptier?
            Did you know that the reason so many prisoners turn to God is that even an atheist will seek out the higher power they know in their gut exists when they hit rock bottom and have nowhere else to turn?

            I also think it’s in poor taste to say that 75% of the people in prison are Christians. Chances are, most of them weren’t until they got there. Real Christians don’t commit crimes that get them put in prison.

            In actual point of fact, if everyone behaved like a true God-fearing Christian, our prisons would be empty. If no one stole, no one would be in prison for larceny. If no one murdered, there wouldn’t be anyone on death row. If no one committed adultery, we wouldn’t have a family values crisis. If everyone had one God, there wouldn’t be moral decay where the first amendment is used to protect pornography and the burning of the American flag.

            I will agree with you that people are happier when they can believe what they want to believe. I also believe they are happier when they keep their hard earned money, choose their own lifestyles, etc. But these are aspects of freedom. And the atheist agenda in politics infringes on those freedoms.

            Through the atheist liberal agenda, the ten commandments have been taken down from state and federal buildings. They weren’t hurting anyone. It violates the free practice of religion for the government to mandate their removal, since doing so institutes the religion of atheism. The same agenda has outlawed prayer in school, has teachers chastising students for having a bible out in plain sight, and has caused the pledge of allegiance to be omitted. The same agenda pushed for legalized abortion, despite the fact that an unborn child is considered a child in every other instance, particularly in criminal court. The agenda is pushing the “it’s okay to be gay” motto to young children, as though they actually need more fuel to fire their teenage confusion.

            I can go on and on. The fact is, this country’s problems stem from godlessness. If you don’t want to believe in God, that is your choice. But most other people either believe in God or tolerate God, and it has been my experience that those who have a problem with things centered around God are actually struggling with the fact of accountability in the face of their own wickedness, and their desire to continue living in wickedness.

          • Angel Wannabe

            Alex, well said!__God knew we were i’m-perfect, Bottom line, God gave us guidelines to go by, but still have free will, its all a choice. Its plain to see what has happened to the country now that MANS AGENDA has taken over Gods Agenda?!!__still, belief or no, is STILL A choice.

          • DaveH

            My brother and his wife go to church every sunday. Both are Sociopaths who will do whatever it takes to achieve their goals, Damn morality.

            I don’t put my fellow human beings down for believing what they choose to believe. But I do put them down when they Force their way on others. Yes, the prayer banning is wrong. Yes, the forcible taking down of the Ten Commandments is wrong. But how many of you so-called God-fearing people condone murder in other countries who have in no way attacked the United States?
            I follow the Ten Commandments more closely than any religious person I’ve ever known. Just saying you believe in God does not make you good people. Good people respect their fellow human beings for how they treat other people, and they treat their fellow human beings respectfully. Not-so-good people think saying they believe in a God somehow gives them a free pass to disrespect and force their way on their fellow human beings.
            Sorry, people. I will judge you based on your goodness towards your fellow human beings. Saying you believe in a God, who you cannot in any way sense, means nothing to me.
            Now behave yourselves and quit acting like controlling Liberals.

          • DaveH

            And Angel, here it is. Please show me where it says that it was created for a “wholly Moral and religeous people”:
            http://www.cato.org/constitution/constitution_en.html

            You’re making stuff up, just like the Liberals do.

          • Old Henry

            DaveH:

            You say “you believe in a God, who you cannot in any way sense”

            Dave, I can sense God Almighty and those who have a true relationship with God can also sense Him.

            That being said, I understand how as a non-believer (and very analitical person) you do not understand “sensing God”.

            Here is an experiment for you, and please do not feel that I am trying to push my beliefs on you or force God on you.

            Just try talking to God. YOu can do that quietly in your heart / mind or, say, go out in your back yard and just try talking to God. He may, or may not, answer you with his Holy Spirit right away, but if you seek Him out He will eventually answer you.

            What do you have to loose? (Afraid He might prove you wrong?) No one need know other than you and God.

            I remember you telling us about your brother and his wife in the past. Going to church does not automatically make you a Christian. Perhaps they are trying to keep up appearances. Your description of your life & beliefs sound like they run more parallel to Christians than you relatives.

            Dave, you truly have me scratching my head. Atheists being godless are overwhelmingly evil by nature. It seems you are not. I wish we could sit down in the driveway in the sun with a cold Miller LIte (I know you don’t drink) and get to know one another. I do pray for you. Even though I do not know you, God does.

          • DaveH

            How can you make such statement, Henry — “Atheists being godless are overwhelmingly evil by nature”? Wow. I consider it evil to discriminate against people who have done you no harm.
            I’m feeling a little crabby today, so here goes:
            You imagine an all-powerful God who is everywhere and all-knowing.
            You can justify his existence because how else could we have gotten here? Yet, when asked how he (or she) got here, the answer is that he has no beginning and no end. How convenient. Many of you talk about the word of God, but there is no word of God, only the words that people have attributed to their imaginary God.
            That’s fine with me, because I don’t care what people believe as long as they don’t use those beliefs as an excuse to Force their ways on me. But don’t condescend me because I don’t believe in an imaginary being that doesn’t exist.

          • DaveH

            Now, can we please quit talking about Religion? I have no interest in converting you guys, and I can guarantee that you won’t convert me. I’ve been there, done that.
            Let’s use that morality that “God” gave you, and get along with each other.

          • Angel Wannabe

            DaveH, Its all about choice Dave._ I left for Lancaster Pa quite sometime ago and just returned, so in essence, you kept the ball rolling talking about religion__you have your links and I have mine__hear is my last word_-The other link will follow_-The first being the Declaration

            http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissuesArticles.asp?id=25685

          • Angel Wannabe

            First of all DaveH, I’ll be quiet when I’m damned good and ready. secondly, I don’t think I responded to you through any of this, YOU felt the need to get in it with me. I won’t be quite about this, I have free speech, just like you and threatened no one, so forget getting me to shut up. You have to choose to either respond or not__IF YA DON’T LIKE what I post, then IGNORE IT!

            I’m not inspired nor defeated by your links, if atheism is your choice, why do you care what I think???___My old man don’t control me and You sure as hell arent going to either!____its enough!__Stay outta my conversations with others!

          • Old Henry

            Angel Wannabe:

            Get outta the wrong side of the bed today? Wow!

            Ya made me smile!

            I do find DaveH to be very interesting, intelligent and pretty considerate, even with folks like eddie and denniso who I can tell really ruffle his feathers.

          • DaveH

            Angel,
            You aren’t really Christian. If you were, you would know that Christ taught tolerance.
            As far as your comment to stay out of your conversations, I don’t recall Robert inviting you into a conversation. We don’t need invitations here.
            You started the fray with your ridiculous comment — “It’s also a well known fact, that the Constitution is only for a Religious moral people as Our in-alienable rights Came from God”.
            You are the kind of people that many came to America to escape from. Bullies who think it’s their way or the highway.
            I don’t look at you, Angel, as being representative of Good Christians. If I did, I would be on the side of the Liberals.

          • Angel Wannabe

            daveh, your not very tolerant either, if you expect me to keep quiet! :)

          • DaveH

            Did I say that, Eddie Jr.? :)

          • Angel Wannabe

            DaveH _I don’t really have a name to call you, and only consider you someone that claims hes for the America, pushes links out like a hen lays eggs__ and thinks he’s always right. Sorry without religion, I find you__egocentric & empty__ By that I mean you have a problem in believing in a higher power than yourself!__enough for tonight__shower and bed! :)

          • DaveH

            Do you honestly think that believing in a supernatural being, who doesn’t exist, makes you something special? You are severely deluded.

        • Lost in Paradise

          I got it years ago, and I am so very angry that it brings tears to my eyes. There is not enough intellect or bravery, in this country to bring about a succesful revolution, and that is the only way to save this country. Ron Paul would be a good president if there were 500 more like him to run congress and the rest of the government. We will vote, vote,and Vote, and when its all said and done we will not have accomplished much at all.

        • Dan az

          Hey Angel
          Please check out this link its food for thought.You wont regret it.
          http://kacperpostawski.com/blog/2011/08/16/quickening/

          • Angel Wannabe

            Dan Az, I saved it in Favs, I’ll leten to it later__ I’m listening to Beck Radio right now___NOW THAT OUGHTA BRING OUT a LIBERAL RESPONSE!!!! ROFLMAO!!___WHICH IS WHY I SAID IT!___:)

          • Dan az

            :) :)

          • Old Henry

            Angel Wannabe:

            Speaking of which, wheeeerrrreeee’s eddie and denniso? Last Friday’s discussion carried over into Saturday afternoon / evening! I even did some posting on Sunday.

          • Angel Wannabe

            Old Henry I don’t know where they’ve been… I haven’t been on much either all summer, just too much to do!

        • DonnieB

          There are many Dem’s, RINOs and atheists liberals , who want to take over this country and the Constitution is definitely in their way.

          As an atheist myself, I find myself in agreement with quite a bit of the political aspirations of the Religious Right. Not everything because they would be happy to take over the country for god.

          Take a look at conservative atheism. A small group to be sure but the way this country should be run. Those of us in this group find ourselves attacked from both sides. There are a few sites where you can find some honest political discussions. Check out Yahoo’s Groups – Conservative Atheists. Not the only place to find us but the one that I am most familiar with.

          This is NOT a Christian nation. The government is to be neutral on religion (remember the Second amendment?). Unfortunately, many Christians or Muslims think that if the government is not pushing their particular religious agenda, then they believe that they are being discriminated against.

          • Angel Wannabe

            DonnieB, Hit up wallbuilders.com, as I’ve stated before, they have the largest concentration of original American documents known today. Incuding hand held Bibles given to each member of congress when sworn in._AGAIN,Your free to believe or not tp beleive as you wish, but facts don’t change, just because you don’t believe in them. Just sayin’…

          • Karolyn

            Angel – I think this is the first time I’ve seen you make up your own “facts.”

          • Angel Wannabe

            karolyn …mmm….I see nothings changed. Well darlin’ ya won’t know the truth unless ya go find it yourself, cuz I sure as h*ll ain’t providing it, even when is provided ya still refuse to see__But hey, have a great day though!

          • Old Henry

            Angel wannabe!

            LOL!! Yer onna roll today girl!

          • Angel Wannabe

            Old Henry, there a couple folks on here who like to yank my chain, I let’em once in a while!__Whatever folks need to think about me I let them, I have my own truth I live by__I don’t let other opinions dictate the truth for me__its all good though! :)

          • Karolyn

            Angel – Same here. Isn’t that what really matters? That we are happy with ourselves and our beliefs? It IS all good! Have a peaceful night! :-)

        • Brian

          It is not a well known fact that the Constitution is only for religious moral people. That is horse sh** made up by fundamentalists. In FACT, the Constitution says exactly who it was created for…”ourselves and our posterity.”

          I always crack up when someone assumes that atheism means all the things you claim. I am an atheist and I abhor what the government has done and is doing. The cause is and always has been liberty. But for you to condemn atheists is just ridiculous.

          • http://ahalbert@smart-technology.net Allan

            I have a problem with atheists bringing all the lawsuits to expunge anything they consider a reference to God. To me it is another form of political correctness. Believe what you want to believe but quit trying to turn society on its head. You control the horizontal and the vertical, so turn the channel. Don’t make taxpayers pay to fight your lawsuits. When it comes to forcing people to accept one’s beliefs, I’d say atheists are doing a pretty fair job of that themselves.

        • Karolyn

          ” the Constitution is only for a Religious moral people”

          WHAT? The Constitution is for ALL Americans! What about people who believe in a God but not in religion? What about people who believe in a different concept of God? Atheists don’t count?

          The Higher Power/Universal Mind/God/whatever you want to call it loves all of us, as we are each a part of the whole; and as such are each equaly important.

        • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

          Angel Wannabe

          Bull sh*t.Religion is the problem.Our founding fathers never did endorse any religion.Religion is an opiate for the weak minded,a mental crutch for the ignorant and above all we don’t need it.

          • Angel Wannabe

            coalminer, hot d*amn you liberals guys are out in force today!__I just love gettin you guys all riled up! :)

          • JeffH

            Angel Wannabe, a triple :) to you! LMAO! You go girl!

          • Angel Wannabe

            JeffH :) :) :)

        • ronn

          Angel,
          Just wanted to inform you that Barton is a charlatan, and is involved with the ecumenical movement. Check out the website Understand the Times International. The have some recent articles about Barton as well some archived posts.

          • Angel Wannabe

            ronn, Neither D.Barton or G.Beck believe in a one world church,(one of ANYTHING, be it a king or a church, is the reason we left England in the first place) they do however believe that most faiths can stand together in unity for Israel and America and the Greater good of Man. Trying to make they’re beliefs more than what it is isn’t going cut it here, not with me anyway!__have a good one!

      • Patriot II

        Bob, here is how I see it;

        The Blob! (Our Current Government) takes 10 Government workers to do the Job 1 efficient entrepreneur can do. Caesar was more like Hercules compare to our current government (Blob), who on the other hand is more like Jabba the Hut! It eats our Money and Craps out Regulation to limit our earnings, so it then needs to take a larger percentage every time to sustain it’s big Fat But!

        Patriot II

      • Raggs

        robert.. shake hands the the devil when you get into hell maybe he will cut you a deal.

      • bob wire

        The Roman Empire was supported by pillage & plunder. The Elite lived in Rome and enjoyed a comfortable life. I’ve not thought of the “Church” as crafting the “Dark Ages” but there is much to what you say and worthy consideration, as we find some of the worlds most advanced thinkers of the time after the fall Rome lived in fear of the church and were indeed suppressed by the church.

        The Roman empire was on a fiat money system and thrived until Cesar demanded it be changed to gold. In so doing, he became a target and was killed while the gold system was employed and enjoyed by the fewer and fewer elite. The fall of Rome started, as more and more became less supportive and obedient as the elite viewed less and less worthy.

        Now what all of this means, I’m not exactly sure. I’d enjoy hearing other peoples thoughts.

        Mankind has always used the “Chief & Witch Doctor” approach to govern the “faithful”, called it a host of many Names as it seeks dominion and willful obedience.

        God’s kingdom is in heaven (or the after life) but here on earth it’s a roll your own situation. The guy that dies with the most toys a self declared winner with some willful popular support.

        I’m not convinced a “gold standard” is the cure-all answer. ~ value is a perception, perception is easy enough to alter.

        People holding vast amounts of gold would hold one view while people holding vast amounts of pretty guns and hungry ugly people might disagree.

        • DaveH
          • DaveH
          • DaveH
          • Lost in Paradise

            Thanks for the info DaveH, but I already know the scoop and maybe even the outcome. Besides, do you believe everything you read? I do not. I have been watching this coming for years, and could do nothing about it, and still cannot.

          • Old Henry

            You need to change your moniker to Professor Dave…

          • bob wire

            So?, what don’t kill you will make you stronger. There’s a lot of truth to that. We see it even in modern medicine.

            So when you burn down the barn to get rid of a few “rats” you need to be willing and in a position to not need a barn. If the rats are eating up 25% of what you have stored in the barn and you can’t find a good mouser that will keep the “rat” population under control. Lazy overfed cats!

          • DaveH

            Lost,
            Of course I don’t believe everything I read. I couple my extensive studies with experience and draw sensible conclusions, like I hope you do.

          • Old Henry

            bob wire:

            Trouble is when ya burn down the barn the rats will scamper out.

            However, I guess you can shoot the rats as they run out. Come to think of it, that makes the job easier…

        • Patriot II

          Bob Wire,

          Have you ever heard the the old saying; “There are no U-Hauls behind Hearses”

          • Dan az

            Patriot
            No I hadn’t thats a good one thanks! :)

          • Old Henry

            No Patriot II, but I have heard the country song with the line “I’ve never seen a hearse with a luggage rack on top”.

            Can’t rmember the artist. Brad Paisly perhaps?

          • bob wire

            No, I have not heard that one, ha ha, he he ☺

            Some say, death makes us all equal but I don’t believe that.

            Call me a sucker, but I do believe in the opportunity to transcending to a higher plane, beyond the physical one that we’ve been born into. I consider this existence “Sand Box 101″ and it’s up to each of us how we live and conduct ourselves. Like Art Carney said to Ralph Cramdom, ” The first thing you learn when working in the sewer Ralph, All that glitters is not gold.”

            This desire for gold has been the undoing for many men and they have wasted a life.

            Anyone ever watch the movie “There will be Blood”? an excellent film. It’s full of everything that men lust for and might ever hold. Setting in north America early 1900′s and the quest for gold and finding oil instead. It’s full of details,viewpoints, methods mixed with rich human drama of the times. A “must see” for any person over the age of 50. Goolge it, if nothing else!

            I believe much would be lost to younger people as they “assume” so much that has been hard fought by the people that came before them.

            A 30 year old today is just to close to Sponge Bob, to get anything across. I’ve all but quit even trying.

          • Old Henry

            bob wire, you’re on a roll today! LOL! I really enjoyed the “Honeymooners” What was the name of Art Carney’s character?

            To the moon Alice!

            Yeah, Carlin was good. The hippie dippy weatherman, with hour hippie dippy weather man…

          • JeffH

            OH. Ed Norton!

          • Old Henry

            Yes! Thanks JeffH. Sheesh, I don’t know why I simply could not remember that!

            My brain musta had a hube cramp. Maybe I shuld shove a banna in my ear.

          • JeffH

            OH, same here…I hadda look it up too… :)

          • Al Sieber

            BobW, your full of sh!tt, you know nothing about gold you’re a idiot or drunk on drugs or both. you know nothing about the monetary system and can’t be taught like most of the liberals here. give it up !!!

          • Al Sieber

            Your real name is probably sponge bob instead of bob wire.

          • bob wire

            Oh! are you renaming people now Al? ~

            You speak as if you know me Al. I’d prefer you use my screen name and cease this ruse of over familiarity. Take me face value as I take you. If I was choosing friends here you’d be at the end of a very long list.

            Unless of course you wish to push the boundaries of civility and Mr. Livingston’s patience, I will spar with you if you actually make a statement or offer something worthy consideration.

            I have a rich long and wide past, a bright opportunistic future and know the joys of being found in high demand today. B1tch slapping a smarta$$ around has always brought me small pleasure. I’ve dodged too many bullets and swam with too many sharks to put up with your surly lip Sir. Be so advised with you future comments directed my way.

        • Old Henry

          Interesting post, bob wire.

          “Mankind has always used the “Chief & Witch Doctor” approach to govern the “faithful”, called it a host of many Names as it seeks dominion and willful obedience.”
          Here is a link to help enlighten and question the “Which Doctor” in DC.

          http://dont-tread-on.me/a-decade-of-denial-and-deception/

          • bob wire

            George Carlin, ~ I miss him, his logic and out spoken antics. He’s a hometown Fort Worth boy ya know?

            “The American Dream” because you have to be asleep to believe it!”

        • Karolyn

          I recently read that the fall of Rome was also attributed to the depletion of the soil, thereby resulting in no food. That is why only grapes and olives grow in part of Italy.

          • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

            Karolyn,
            The fall of Rome? Soil depletion? Don’t forget, Christianity was also a contributing factor.

      • DaveH

        Community efforts? Sounds kinda like Communism, doesn’t it?
        Actually the Romans collapsed in a very similar fashion to where we’re headed, Robert. The leaders did too much empire building, and generally spent too much money, in the end buying off the populace with lavish distributions of wealth. Then after being impoverished, they were overrun by the hordes of enemies that they created with their empire building.
        We don’t need to go back so far as the Roman Empire to get some common sense. Well, at least those of us who can learn by experience don’t. All we need do is look at all the failures of Socialism in modern history — Russia, China, Cuba, North Korea …
        Or look at the countries with the biggest Government regulatory apparatus:
        http://www.heritage.org/index/ranking

        Only somebody working for the system, or feeding at the trough, can tout Big Government as the solution with a straight face.

        • Andrew

          rome was finished when it tried to be friendly to its enemies. it let their enemy’s armys exist within the roman empire boundaries. these roman enemy’s were very largely uneducated savages, kill and plunder and move on were there methods of operation, not rebuilding. they sacked rome and destroyed every thing else they could destroy. it was the catholic church that preserved any intellegience and helped bring the known world out of the dark ages. the savages still existed and operated through the dark ages.
          Christianity saved our world period.

          • bob wire

            I never noticed Rome trying to be overly “friendly” to anyone but Romans and toward the end not even them. Nero wasn’t what you’d call benevolent or fatherly. He was an interbred nut case and wasting air something else could breath.

            As far a Christian saving the world, perhaps but many would disagree. And I’m not convinced that we are out of the woods yet. Even Christian writing testify to that as fact.

            There will always be wars and rumor of war and pestilence upon the land.

            I think of it more a game of musical chairs, as long as the music plays, we are all in the game and think of ourselves as “contenders”

          • eddie47d

            Rome loved slaves Andrews and where do you think they got those slaves from? From invading and plundering other nations.

          • DaveH

            That’s so rich. A Liberal talking about slavery, while he advocates forcibly taking money from others. You are clueless, aren’t you Eddie?

        • Old Henry

          Yep DaveH. Last week I caught a program on the History Channel about Rome from 400 BC forward. The hair on my neck began to stand up as I thought “That is us TODAY”!

          Scary, very, very scary.

      • Oxford

        Sorry, Rob…you don’t know what you’re talking about. First, we don’t have a Ceasar here…we are a Constitutional Republic with a LIMITED federal government…so Ceasar doesn’t even apply or rendering ANYTHING to him…nor to the Federal Government beyond it’s limited juridiction which was supposed to be supported by foreign trade tariffs and imposts…but what has been created is a prostituted, bastardized society of elitists that enslave others for their own benefit. Wake up and get educated!

        • Capitalist at Birth

          Many of our Presidents have acted like Dictators. Jackson, Lincoln, Johnson, Carter, and Obama for example.

          • Capitalist at Birth

            Failed to mention Wilson,Teddy, and Franklin

        • Lost in Paradise

          OH! That must be some good stuff you are smoking!

        • Old Henry

          Oxford:

          If you rearange the letters in Ceasar you can spell Obama. LOL!

        • Alex

          No, we don’t have a Caesar. We have an Obama. Caesar was a name, not a title, as I’m sure you well know. And Rome was a Republic, just as we are. Until the day Caesar crossed the Rubicon, just as Obama has stationed a 20,000-man standing army on American soil and has established the rough equivalent of a Praetorian guard. Rome couldn’t print money, but they did debase it by issuing gold-plated lead. Rome suffered massive inflation, as we are now. Rome tried price fixing to stop the inflationary hemmorage, just as we have in the past, and will again in the future if things are not brought under control. Rome had troops stationed across the known world, just as we do now. Rome made enemies across the known world through their occupation, just as we are doing. Rome allowed foreigners to be part of the Senate, and to eventually hold the consulship, just as we have done with our congress, and have likely done concerning our bogus Kenyan president. Rome eventually spread itself so thin that an invading force toppled the capital. We are spread thin right now, and have already been attacked. More or worse are not impossible, no matter how many grandmothers we strip of their adult diapers in the name of stopping terrorism.

          So don’t be so condescending. We are following in Rome’s footsteps. To say, “Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s” is not such an outrageous statement. The government, as it exists, owns us.

          • bob wire

            of course it does. ~ Government cleans up ! where and whenever something need cleaning. ~ You die in place, government won’t allow you to just lie there. They put you in the ground and take what in your pockets, take any holdings you might have and bill your family if they can find a paper trail.

            Like a freight train, in case of any tie, you loose.

            People die, institutions live much longer. But they can die too.

      • JeffH

        What I find most interesting about Robert Smith’s post is how he re-directed the comments and easily created a disruption to the thread. He mentions “christians” and the in-fighting and arguements begin.

        Can’t anybody else see what his intent was?

        C’mon folks, I know you’re all smarter than that!

        • bob wire

          No not really Jeff. Robert’s comment was out of context. ~ The render unto Cesar comment by Jesus was an answer offered to Pilot when JC was being questioned about his title as “King of the Jews” and the establishments concerns that Cesar held dominion. ~ so that was a superfluous comment. JC was on trial for his life before the most powerful man in the land. A man that would hand you your head in a heart beat if he found you “off color”.

          We revel in the notion that P.P. found JC without fault and void any crime against man or country. But the noisy crowd ruled the day. Jesus did a splendid job representing himself that dark day. But he was lobbing the wrong people. The clergy wanted him dead and they got their way. The “church” was victorious! Yea CHURCH!

          That Christian took over Rome and screwed everything up was pure bull$hit. ~Christian didn’t take over Rome but had to hid out in caves. A hundred years later some Roman did accept Christianity, but many keep their idols and worshiped both, chosen to be better safe then sorry.

          But Robert’s post it did spark discussion of Rome and Roman history and the parallels we see happening today. I ignored Roberts posting finding it absurd but I do see your point.

      • Damon

        Jesus, also said follow the LAW of the land, and our law does not require one to pay a FEDERAL PAYROLL TAX~~~~ If you don’t work for the federal government and live in Puerto Rico, ect. ect. Then you don’t have to pay. Write your legislator if you don’t believe, its the biggest lie in American history.

      • crystal

        I know I’ve said this to you before, but it was Christianity that took Europe out of the Dark Ages after the Fall of Rome.

        • bob wire

          No, not really, history fails to support your statement. The civilized world went into the dark ages where brighter minds had to hide their thoughts as later as Leonardo De Venice who found it necessary to write in crypt less the “simpletons” expose him as a “blasphemer” and demand their “justice”

      • john

        Rob,the ages dark came when the last desciple (sp)was murdered,Jesus said that his word (the light) would not be heard again throughout the land.The people preaching then did so with out GOD’S approval.hence,the dark ages. There is not a doubt in my mind that this will not even slow you down,you hatred of any thing Christian comes through very well. I shall pray for you.

      • Susan

        Where did you get such idiotic information? If you’re going to “quote” things, how about getting them right?

      • Lewis Munn

        One minor error.

        The Dark Ages were a time when the rulers called themselves “Christian”, but did NOT teach what Christ taught, or act as Christ acted.

        You need to be sure when you complain about “Christians” you are talking about those who are converted to following the teachings of Jesus Christ in their livea. NOT someone who says they are christian and then proceeds to violate what Christ plainly tsught!!

        It is a mistake many people make. You have heard of the RINO? You are blaming those who are CINO. “Christians In Name Only”

        Hey, if it does not walk like a Christian, does not act like a Christian, does not tell the truth like a Christian…ever occur to you it might NOT BE a Christian, but a CINO, a pretender, with NO heart and mind faith??

        • Al Sieber

          Right on brother!!!

        • bob wire

          That’s the way I see it Lewis. It’s was more in spite of Christians.

    • Old Henry

      Very interesting poll results DaveH!

      “Strange” we do not see them reported, but then again…

      I forwarded the newsletter to several people as well as your link.

    • Alex

      Funny how the allegedly unelectable Ron Paul is in first place with 19.74%. And you STILL don’t hear about him in the media. After all, even with enough egg on his face to be an omlette, Rick Perry is “the clear winner.”

      • DaveH

        I’ve been watching the Tampa debates for about 30 minutes now, and so far Perry has been given about twice as much face time as the other candidates by CNN. I will finish watching before I pass judgement though.

        • DaveH

          Okay, I finished and that ratio held. Rick Perry had twice as much face time as any other candidate. CNN has obviously picked our candidate for us.

          • Alex Frazier

            The media picked him the moment he announced his candidacy. But the polls are telling the truth. Ron Paul is presently in the lead, and won the California straw poll by a landslide. He got more votes than Perry and Romney combined.

            The media can lick my crack. If I knew who to cuss out at my local station, I’d have done it already. A bunch of establishment stooges.

          • DaveH

            Libertarians scare the hell out of moguls. With Free Markets they would have to compete for a living instead of running to their Government buddies to get special subsidies, quotas, tariffs, targeted regulations, or other forms of Government protection.
            With Free Markets, upstarts can be giant killers. The moguls know that, and they will do everything in their power to silence Libertarians.

    • Lewis Munn

      Too few and too late.

      Our educational system has suppressed logical thinking for fun stuff. And suppressed the study of what made America great…too old-fashioned, and not enough fun.

      Rome went this way too! But we do not learn this in public schoo9ls anymore!!

    • OB1

      Yes, DaveH: Saturday’s GOP Straw Poll: (Notes:Texas GOP just cancelled their Straw GOP Poll!)

      http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/09/17/california.straw.poll/

      Ron Paul won the GOP Straw Poll overwhelmingly this Saturday. CNN reported it on their site then took it down! Here’s the numbers:

      Texas Rep. Ron Paul won a California straw poll, the state Republican Party announced in a statement Saturday night.

      A total of 833 ballots were cast during the straw poll, the statement said.

      Paul won with 44.9% of the votes, Texas Gov. Rick Perry came in second with 29.3% of the votes, and former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney came in third with 8.8% of the votes.

      Yes, the AP and the rest of the elites are terrified of him. He cannot be bought.
      You will not here this on any main stream media, not even Fox News. He has won
      or came close by 140 votes in Iowa of winning every Straw Poll. Everywhere.

    • OB1

      DaveH: (Notes:Texas GOP just cancelled their Straw GOP Straw Poll!)

      http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/09/17/california.straw.poll/

      Ron Paul won the GOP Straw Poll overwhelmingly this Saturday. CNN reported it on their site then took it down! Here’s the numbers:

      Texas Rep. Ron Paul won a California straw poll, the state Republican Party announced in a statement Saturday night.

      A total of 833 ballots were cast during the straw poll, the statement said.

      Paul won with 44.9% of the votes, Texas Gov. Rick Perry came in second with 29.3% of the votes, and former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney came in third with 8.8% of the votes.

      Yes, the AP and the rest of the elites are terrified of him. He cannot be bought.
      You will not here this on any main stream media, not even Fox News. He has won
      or came close by 140 votes in Iowa of winning every Straw Poll. Everywhere.

      • DaveH

        Why would Texas cancel their straw poll vote? I thought that was the state which was going to lead us back to Freedom? Of course, I’m joking. I worked in Texas for 3 years. They don’t know any more about Freedom than any other state I’ve been to.

        • bob wire

          So true, a dip stick in Texas is a dip stick in Bama. There is no difference.

      • Christin

        OB1,

        Wow, I had not heard that… kind of out of the loop for a few days. The media is really pushing Perry and Romney and only mentioning a few of the others, but essentially leaving Ron Paul out… that speaks volumes… we know the media pushes the winners TPTB have picked.

        Thanks for sharing the straw poll… guess if Texas decided not to have a poll they are afraid Constitutionalist Ron Paul will win over Globalist Perry.

        • bob wire

          As bad as I hate to say it, the time long since gone when Texas was a Stand up, front and center , in your face state. We have been assimilated by limp wrist, do nothing fagots north of Oklahoma.

          Don’t depend on Texas leading the way. We have been overran by people looking for an easier life.

          and damn it hurts!

          bw

    • Lee

      I believe I deserve to keep 100%! Can you say FairTax? You only pay tax, if you purchase something. As a nation, we need to push for getting rid of the IRS, and FED. We need to scream loud and long. We need to push our representatives to implement HR 25, S 13 FairTAx act. Go to FairTax.org, and learn more. This class warfare has to stop. It is the rich who create jobs for the rest of us slobs. The unions just take money and mess up the system.
      We need to get rid of the Washington Thugs NOW! Everything that is happening is already scripted, and we need to change the script.

      • DaveH

        The Fair Tax isn’t fair. Just ask the retailers that will be assigned to being tax collectors:
        http://mises.org/daily/1814

        And we would still have a large portion of the population who would have Representation without Taxation (just as bad as its opposite).

    • Iva Raggon
    • Judy

      I agree 100%, it’s time people wake up and understand that politians work not for the people, but for themselves. They should only hold office for eight year terms and no longer. They should be on SS and Medicare just like every American when they reach the age of 67yrs. They should not get a raise every year. SS is not an intitlement, my husband worked 35yrs at his job, and we are still paying income taxes, and my husband is 73yrs old now. We the people have to petition, and stop the government from spending the peoples hard earned money. These politians have the best benefits, health and retirement and we support it.Something is wrong with this picture.

  • Angel Wannabe

    WEll Put Bob, In fact there is hardly much I can add.__Voting Repub is about the same as voting Dem anymore, soon as they’re elected its business as usual anyway. Because the TPTB are calling the shots and telling them how it will be regardless.__Which always means the Guv gets richer and the people get poorer__IN ESSCENSE NOTHING EVER CHANGES, It’s as plain as the nose on your face!__Oddly enough, over the weekend while talking to some friends, we decided too, that 10% is in fact good enough for the Good Lord, but the Guv always wants more.
    Washington’s the one implementing all the taxes, so let them pay for them!_The Guv claims this huge deficit, as Bob explained, as a means to excuse & control us into accepting more regulation and tax.
    __We’ve Been onto ya for a while now Washington.__Our Patriotic Duty …Right!??

    • David

      It sounds like it’s time for a Tea Party!

      • Larry From Indiana

        My opinion David is: Time for an old time ‘Tar & Feather Party in DC!’

        • Patriot II

          Larry the Dems and Libs will take that as a Physical Threat, and brand you as a Hate Crime person. Just remember, they and Jimmy Hoffa (Obama’s close bud) can get away with it you can’t.

        • Angel Wannabe

          lARRY from Idiana, LOL!__Funny you mention that, my Grandmother who is long gone now, told me a story years ago, that at 9 years old her and a friend were walking downtown, and got caught in the middle of a mob of men which tarred and feathered a man who murdered a policemen, and then drug him through the streets while tied to a horse. She was pretty explicit about it, the man died and the end result wasn’t pretty.

        • Lost in Paradise

          I think I would prefer a lynching in front of the White House, with all the liberal news media for spectators.

          • Angel Wannabe

            Lost in Paradise___LOL!

          • Old Henry

            Lost in Paradise:

            That is an excellant idea. And we can re-use the rope as many times as we need to…

            Fast, simple and efficient.

          • Angel Wannabe

            H*ll Yeah Old Henry at least by re-using the rope, we’d be green and recycling!

          • Alex

            Careful with that, or the liberals might start pushing for rope control laws. Street lamps shaped like an upside down L will require a special license … only good for silver colored lamps, provided you register them in time. And the rope available for purchase will only be allowed to be one foot long.

            After all, we would need to punish and restrict all lawful rope users because of the one random act of hanging the bastards in Washington.

          • Angel Wannabe

            Alex, LMAO!!!

          • Old Henry

            Ditto Alex!

            Looks like everyone got plenty of sleep over the week end!

      • FreedomFighter

        Dave its time to become active, get your friends active, and protest the now blatent takeover of America by the NWO banksters and elite Lucy’s.

        Its end game time. We may need call on our US military to support revolt against these usurpers and the tyrant in the white house.

        Laus Deo
        Semper Fi

    • Warrior

      I find it amazing that everytime little barry gets in trouble the LSM trots out bubba to get his opinion.

      • JUKEBOX

        Much as I hate to say it, Bubba is far more reasonable than Barry, and a whole lot smarter.

    • Al Sieber

      Angel I agree, and Bob good article. everyone should read the coinage act of 1792 if we would of stuck to that we wouldn’t be in this mess. our money isn’t real it has no substance, it’s a Federal Reserve Note not a dollar which should be gold or silver. the Govt. doesn’t deserve one penny from us from our fruits of labor, we deserve to keep it all. we need to stand up for our rights instead of being a nation of sheep and sissy’s and I hope it isn’t too late. in Deuteronomy it says substance for substance, I trade you something of worth for something of worth. not Fed. Notes. our whole monetary system is pure evil.

      • Angel Wannabe

        Ats what I say Al Sieber, Washington guilts into paying out more taxes & regulation, they’ve chamged the language by calling it “Our Patriotic Duty!”__F-IN Idiots!

        • Angel Wannabe

          Al, Sorry typo, I meant “changed”.

      • Dan az

        Hey Al
        I can sorta see why the need for paper funny money,It was easier to keep in your pocket but the minute they took it off the gold stanard then it became useless toilet paper.Thats what the plan was all along.The only good thing I see is that the price of gold and silver just keeps going up every time they print more debt.So their next move could only be one thing and thats chip everyone with their bank account and then there wont be anything to change hands.Our demise is on the horizon.
        Getting cold up here how about there?

        • Al Sieber

          Dan, Henry, it’s 74 in the am, and 90 in the late afternoon and Alex I’ll have to look it up I was paraphrasing.

          • Dan az

            Not bad! its in the 50′s in the morning here and 80′s all day.I guess your wearing your winter clothes now huh? :)

      • Old Henry

        Absolutely Al. If the poll resuts that DaveH posted above are any indication, we are peeling the layers off the onion.

        I am getting more positive responses when I wear my One Big A$$ Mistake America tee shirt.

        Has it cooled of some down in your neck of the woods? Got your sweater out yet? I have had to regress to my blue jeans and sweat shirt. Takes some of the enjoyment out of my Miller Lite consuming.

      • Alex

        Where in Deuteronomy does it say that? If it reads as you say in context, it’s a passage I’d like to add to my current repertoire of anti-Fed scriptures.

        • Al Sieber

          I’ll look it up again, what do you have in anti-Fed biblical quotes?

      • bob wire

        There is many statement made in Deuteronomy you wouldn’t agree with.

        That was eye for eye and tooth for tooth~ trial law Al Sieber

        They cut off heads and stone people for just being an “embarrassment” to the family back then.

        I know that you are bright, but don’t be spreading the virtues of a primitive cultures.

        If you don’t want to live in America and pay a tax like everyone else has to, ~ take your happy a$$ down the road. Take with you all that you can carry.

    • Old Henry

      Angel Wannabe:

      God Almighty requires 10%.He is greater than any government. So, if God can get buy on 10% and He is above government then government should get no more than 9.9%.

      • Angel Wannabe

        At’s what I say Old Henry__ anymore is highway robbery!

      • Karolyn

        God Almighty requires NO money! The churches require the money – some a hell of a lot more than others!

        • Angel Wannabe

          Karolyn Reposting this AGAIN, God requires his people to pay a tenth of they’re spoils from livestock to money__Read the Bible!

          • Karolyn

            AGAIN! What is in the Bible is hand-selected by The Church to insure it had complete control of the people AND their money!

          • Opal the Gem

            Prove it Karo

  • Greg

    The elites have run into a problem. They can’t tax the unemployed, whose jobs they sent away with NAFTA.

  • Donald D Jones ww2 vet

    you just don’t get it , do you?
    The E P A has regulated America out of Business
    They have moved out, because they can’t make it here
    I just can not figure out what the hell you are thinking
    Congress , the President, the Media, heads in the Sand
    I know, you know, we must chop the regulations way back
    to get industry started again, and lock that door so they
    can stay here, Cut Regulation and no new regulation

    been there, done that, don jones

    • Angel Wannabe

      DDJones well said!__I did some research a while back just on our community alone. I wanted to know how many industry & manufacturing companies closed in the last 30-35 years here._ ANSWER_ 21. Reasons, Non_ Union compliance, tax & regulation, and 3rd, Ceo/owner deaths.
      It doesn’t take a genius to figure this out. We’ve been taxed and regulated right out of jobs!_and The Libs know full well what they’re doing.

    • SMSgt Z retired Nam 68

      Great Idea lets bring back the days of rivers so polluted by industry that the fish can not be eaten and they catch fire all by themselves.I long for the days when I was able to see the air I was breathing.Great Idea.Question if tax brakes for the wealthy create jobs why no jobs since the first Bush tax cut?

      • Angel Wannabe

        Your way over the top nam 68, you guys crack me up. Ya either have no opinion at all or go way over board!!!__ Where did I say to go back and pollute everything from land, air and water? __I didn’t!__What I stated was the EPA have gone too damned far and driven everything off shore. Ift he TPTB want to tax and regulate further, LET THEM PAY FOR IT!–THEY PRINT MONEY OUTTA THIN AIR ANY OTHER TIME!

        • Angel Wannabe

          aw,
          You don’t regulate job growth so much, that you regulate companies off the map and off shore, which in fact is just what they’ve done!

        • Al Sieber

          Angel, you’re wasting your time with sarge.

        • SMSgt Z retired Nam 68

          A few examples of why the EPA was started and is still needed. Cuyahoga River Ohio caught fire all by it’s self, Hudson river NY do not eat the fish due to the PSB, Washington State consume only one serving of fish a month, Florida panhandle consume no fish do to the red tide ,etc,etc.I could go get into smog over LA,Chicago,NYC etc,etc and acid rain destroying lakes in the North East etc,etc Why bother you follow the pundits like Rush, Beck, Hannity, etc who are all millionaires and are just protecting themselves with there Bovine Scatology

          • Angel Wannabe

            nam68 and why do you push the Liberal agenda on a Conservative website?__ Do you benefit by the Liberal policy ie, unemployment benefits?, Welfare?_ Got a house for nothing, Government Grants?

            _or are you just on here fishing for conservative think, to take back to the Liberal Media bosses so they can plan they’re next attack??__after they hand you a paycheck for doing this, that is??!!___Last response, NUff said LIB!

          • DaveH

            Sarge won’t be happy until he and his Progressive buds have turned us into an economic wasteland, so he can practice his jungle survival skills once again before he dies:
            http://mises.org/daily/683/Greens-versus-Energy

          • eddie47d

            See how they ignored your comment SGT. They answered but nothing in relationship to what you said. In other words they didn’t have a real answer.

          • JeffH

            Gee eddie, you seem to have ignored the fact that there are many responsive posts to the sarge…hmmm?

          • DaveH

            Can you give me a synopsis of the article I posted a link to, Eddie?

          • bob wire

            well Red Tide is mean enough to think it’s a mistake make by man. Burns the eyes and lungs, stinks and overwhelming ` but it’s all natural!

            Red tide is a common name for a phenomenon also known as an algal bloom (large concentrations of aquatic microorganisms), an event in which estuarine, marine, or fresh water algae accumulate rapidly in the water column and results in discoloration of the surface water. It is usually found in coastal areas.[1]

            These algae, known as phytoplankton, are single-celled protists, plant-like organisms that can form dense, visible patches near the water’s surface. Certain species of phytoplankton, usually dinoflagellates or diatoms, contain photosynthetic pigments that vary in color from green to brown to red.

            When the algae are present in high concentrations, the water appears to be discolored or murky, varying in color from purple to almost pink, normally being red or green. Not all algal blooms are dense enough to cause water discoloration, and not all discolored waters associated with algal blooms are red. Additionally, red tides are not typically associated with tidal movement of water, hence the preference among scientists to use the term algal bloom.

            Some red tides are associated with the production of natural toxins, depletion of dissolved oxygen or other harmful effects, and are generally described as harmful algal blooms. The most conspicuous effects of these kind of red tides are the associated wildlife mortalities of marine and coastal species of fish, birds, marine mammals, and other organisms. In the case of Florida red tides, these mortalities are caused by exposure to a potent neurotoxin called brevetoxin which is produced naturally by the marine algae Karenia brevis.

            But I understand your point Sarge. ~ allowed to do anything they want too, big business pursuing big profits would destroy the plant if left unchecked by mankind. Mr Peabody’s coal train would haul it all away.

            I do believe big business is more mindful today then anytime in history and the reason for this is the pressures places upon them by people many here take exception too. So let us look for some compromise in such matters. Big Business has that wanted to stay in America.

            we’ve made a big turn around since the 60′s and we’ve lost some ground and gained some ground.

            I don’t want to work on a assemble line making cheap watches and cell phones and live in a grass hut and wear on shoes. I don’t want that for my children but somebody is willing to do it.

          • Karolyn

            I will never forget the radio interview I heard around 10 years ago. A big developer in NJ was asked if he felt badly that he was using up all the land, and his grandkids would have to deal with it. His answer was basically, “No.” In so many words, he could give a crap about what he was leaving; all he caed about was how much he could make right now. Look at Monsanto taking over the world seed bank and not caring at all what it is doing to people. Big Business is out for the bucks and let the chips fall where they may. They will get away with as much as they can.

          • eddie47d

            Monsanto has way too much control over our lives. Although the Conservatives say they don’t like Monsanto either this company is nothing but another corporation out of many who have screwed someone. In their case it was the small farmer and heirloom seeds.

          • Al Sieber

            Sarge, what do you know about the EPA? I deal with the NAZI’s once a month.

          • Al Sieber

            eddie, lay off the Twinkies and Moon Pies.

      • DaveH

        Apparently, Sgt, that is what you strive for when you work with your Liberal Cohorts to impoverish our nation. It is well known fact that the poorest economies have the dirtiest environments.
        Get out your gas mask.

        • DaveH

          Only a deluded Liberal would still be dredging up that old dead horse of Acid Rain:
          http://reason.org/news/show/the-conservative-reversal-on-scienc.html

        • eddie47d

          “It is well known that the poorest nations have the dirtiest environments”. Although that statement is true why do you actively fight against anyone who tries to keep our environment clean and safe? That should be a strength of a nation not something to scorn. Anti-environmentalists are always diluting our laws to serve those companies that do the damages to our environment. We can’t control what other countries do to their rivers and where they dump their waste. That is their loss and not something to be envious of.

          • DaveH

            Do you have any logic skills at all, Eddie? Good Grief.

          • eddie47d

            I would think you are the one without logic on that one.

      • Lost in Paradise

        Darn Sarge, I think you ate too many of those fish.

      • Alex

        I have a better question for YOU. When was the last time you heard of a poor person giving someone else a job?

        The wealthy create jobs. No one else can. If you take the wealth from the wealthy, then no one has the means to create anything.

        Taxing the piss out of the wealthy to create government jobs is just reallocation. They aren’t creating anything new. They are just preventing free markets and entrepeneurs from creating the jobs in order to raise the revenue to create the jobs themselves, and usually at a higher pay rate with less responsible spending.

        • Karolyn

          I’ve heard that before about poor people not creating jobs, and it’s not true. For one thing, when I was in business for myself and poor at that, I had a couple of employees. For another, look at all the people who have jobs with organizations trying to help the poor! :-)

          • Alex Frazier

            If you were in business for yourself, you weren’t poor. You might have had debt, and a lot of the assets you had tied up. But you weren’t poor. Poor people don’t start businesses. Poor people buy beer on Friday and wonder if they’ll be able to pay the past due electric bill with next week’s paycheck.

            Poor people also tend to have bad credit, because when the time comes to decide between buying food or paying for the credit card they got to buy tires that they desperately needed but couldn’t afford, food wins. Working in retail for years, I can tell you first hand that if they were poor, their credit sucked. If they had some money, their credit was golden. It’s all a matter a means.

            So, no … poor people don’t create jobs. Poor people work the jobs created by people in better financial condition, or live off the welfare and unemployment paid in by those in a better financial condition. Take your pick. But they don’t create a damn thing but higher taxes for those who try and better themselves.

          • bob wire

            “Alex says:
            September 19, 2011 at 10:42 am

            I have a better question for YOU. When was the last time you heard of a poor person giving someone else a job?”

            Well if you want to talk about it, get it right.

            Jobs are not “given” they are commissioned, let or “exchanged” for something.

            The “affluent” have had ample time to generate the jobs and employ a workforce after enjoying some 7 years of “W’s” tax breaks. At this point I believe they have declined the invite finding it not compulsory.

            Much like the Federal government, ~the amount “gained”, went into their pockets and became part of their “General Fund”. ~ They really don’t know what money we are talking about. It’s viewed as all “Their MoneY” in “their pocket” at this point and someone is trying to take it for them.

            Make perfect sense to me!

            So the moral of this story,

            “Don’t give people money and then turn around and attempt lay claim to it or control it.” They will only look at you funny and think that your are weird.

      • Lewis Munn

        Now we cannot eat ocean fish either, as all the nuclear “accidents” have poisoned all the water. And you got no idea how much stuff the government is feeding us. And irradiating us. For our own good, of course!!

        I am reluctant to fly overseas as I have to take a dose of poisonous Mercury to meet government specs! Mercury is a cumulative poison, and there are better ways to avoid viral infections. Mercury also destroys your cognitive brain functions.

        Maybe that is why the governments are so anxious we take it!

        • eddie47d

          Environmentalists have been fighting against mercury poisoning for at least 60 years now. Coal is the biggest factor in it being spread. Coal ash is a byproduct and can also be harmful. Now we have GE to contend with in forcing those new bulbs on us. China doesn’t care and that is where the bulbs will be coming from. We have been sold out from all sides of the Mercury problem.

      • Lewis Munn

        Nam68, I would like to see that fish that when you catch it, it cooks itself. This could be a solution to the Food Crisis! Do you have it breeding true yet?

  • Jane

    Well, here we go again. You are trying your best to reelect Obama. Have at it, and we will see what sort of groaning and bellowing we will hear from you after the election when you see some REAL facts about who wants our money. Why is it that this sickness takes over people when there is a critical election ahead? I’ve seen it over and over again.

    • DaveH

      Who is it, Jane? And how can they take our money and other property without the complicity and Force of Big Government?

  • Capt Gene

    God, who owns it ALL, only asks for 10%. If that works for God, how much more so that will work for man.

    • Karolyn

      God asks for NO MONEY!

      • Angel Wannabe

        Karolyn , yes he does, God requires a tenth of ALL spoils from livestock to money. Read the Bible!

        • Karolyn

          I’m sure that’s in there because the Church wanted to make sure it got its cut. I’m talking about what’s REAL!

          • Angel Wannabe

            Good Grief Karolyn, if your going by the 60′s era, IS ANYTHING REAL or OR IS IT IMAGINED, how crazy do ya wanna get with this?

    • Lewis Munn

      God asks for all of you. So does the Government now. How does one accomodate both God and government?

      • Angel Wannabe

        Lewis Munn, we cannot serve two masters, one must choose.

  • Jay

    Actually, the question should be, “How much does the vampiric, government deserve to take”? Answer: As little as possible!

    • Tom

      Jay, And everyone else.

      Research the word “kleptoparasite”. I believe you will find it to be appropriately descriptive when referring to the three branch kleptocratic political duopoly that we call a “federal government.”

      • Jay

        kleptoparasite |ˌkleptəˈparəˌsīt|
        noun Zoology
        a bird, insect, or other animal that habitually robs animals of other species of food.

        Yap, that is a very accurate description of the puppet government that is in place today. You know Tom, there was only one President that was about to avert the mess we find ourselves in today, and, as you know, was assassinated for it! JF Kennedy wanted no part of the federal reserve, rather, he wanted to start printing American currency, not notes like the federal reserve issues, but American currency, with no interest! You know, as Rockefeller once said: “Give me control of a nation’s currency, and i care not who writes its laws”. Well, enter the federal reserve, and it’s been down hill ever since! Btw, American total debt obligation totals 200 trillion! No, its not a type-o!

        • Lewis Munn

          Hey…we’re the best at getting into debt! Let’s take a week off to celebrate on the White House lawn! Free hotdogs to the first billion people.

          Salad’s on Obama!

      • Jay

        Sorry Tom, it wasn’t Rockefeller that said that, it was A. Amschel Rothschild!

  • Free Mind

    Taxes fund the government. This is a government we don’t want and more importantly don’t need. I say there are two choices. For the sheep, requirem they pay 5% if they feel they must. For me; I haven’t filed in 3 years. Don’t plan to ever again.

    If everyone refused to pay the burdensome taxes, that would be our lever of control. Pretty simple.

    • eddie47d

      Then don’t render onto Caesar as you are saying. Complaining about taxes is as American as apple pie yet if you don’t pay then don’t play. Now you do directly benefit from the Clean Water and Clean Air Acts so why do you think the rest of us should pay for what you receive?

      • Dan az

        eddie
        The clean air act?You mean those catalytic converters that they forced everyone to use that puts out cyanide gas or is it that gas that was suppose to be safer that created killed all the lakes and streams I forget what they called it but it was a mandatory additive that calif. forced through then had to take it back out.Ya they really got it together.Lets not forget fluoride,you know the poison that has a skull and cross bones on it that they put into the water.Ya thats clean.Lets not forget the envirogreenies that stop all the dams from being built too.So we all can just pay more for the energy from those nasty generators that spew out toxic air that they want them to stop too.We need more regs right ed then that way we can force everyone to conform with your sorted logic.Your funny eddie :)

        • eddie47d

          Lets go out and build more dams and stop the natural flow of rivers. Sometimes it works and sometimes it backfires. Then the State has to spend millions buying up land,dredging behind the dams and stocking the lakes with fish. There are benefits with dams such as water supplies,hydro and recreation also. Everything has to be taken into consideration.

      • Lewis Munn

        I am not sure how I benefit from the clean water acts…water tastes worse than ever, especially in cities!

        And the clean air…well, it hurts me because, IF you check, the “Clean Air” folks are DIRECTLY responsible for the rapid rise in global temperatures. Nature proved this twice in the 1800′s, tho I am sure you still deny recorded facts!

      • Lewis Munn

        You are socialist, and so must be social, including picking up the tab for the rest of us. Etiquette demands it.

        Socialists are the ones with the money! So start being social, all of you.

    • Al Sieber

      I’ll second that!!

      • Al Sieber

        Not you eddie, Free Mind’s comment.

    • Mike P

      If taxes did,in fact,fund government,we wouldn’t have the leviathon that exists today. This monster has been funded with “money” created from thin air ,with pure greed and power being the motivators. The income tax is nothing more than a government hoax,lie,ponzi scheme to steal from anyone who will consent to it. This is a plank straight from the “Communist Manifesto” Anyone not wishing to be a victim of this fraud should go to: http://www.losthorizons.com

  • Suzanne

    Still Bob Livingston, you never speak about Ron Paul who won’t do any of this. He’s the only one I will vote for. I agree that the others are sheep in wolf’s clothing.

    • James Andrews

      Ron Paul is the man!

    • Capitalist at Birth

      Will you vote for Paul, even if he is not on the ballot? If you do, remember that you are insuring Obamas re-election.

      • Shane

        Romney, Perry or Bachmann, it doesn’t matter if any of them were to win or Obama was to, it’ll be the same song and dance. Ron Paul or it’s more of the same. Simple as that. Ron Paul 2012!

      • DaveH

        No, Capitalist, it is you and others like you who have insured Obama’s election. Without people like yourself buying into the “don’t split the vote” scenario, we could have elected principled people decades ago after Jimmy Carter made a mess of our economy. Instead your kind kept voting for, and getting, the lesser of two evils, which is still just evil. So the Leaders in both parties have been able to continue fleecing the citizens and using that fleece to line their own beds. All because people like you, Capitalist, have aided (perhaps unwittingly) in the suppression of principled people who could have awakened the voters decades ago.
        People are finally awakening to the scam and trying to do something about it. So bugger off, Capitalist, and let Freedom take root.

      • Lost in Paradise

        Capitalist, I understand what you mean if Paul is not on the ballot, but I have read other posts by you, and wonder why you are sooooo against Ron Paul. I think that no matter what happens, Obama will be re-elected. Too many liberal voters.

        • moonbeam

          If Obama gets re-elected, I believe there will be smoke in the city. With as low an approval rating as he has (whatever that happens to be right now) I really don’t think it will sit well with people who turned out to vote him out. Riots and chaos may ensue. It worked in the middle east getting rid of leaders the people didn’t want.

          Four more years of him this country can’t take. Romney and Perry are no good either. They are partial to using executive orders to do what they want and force their will on the American People. Perry did it as governor of Texas forcing Gardasil injections on young girls. He will do much worse things as president. Count on it.

          As stated earlier, listen to their words. In addition, check out their affiliations and voting records. Check birth certificates and other important records, such as experience. Obama slithered in with none of the above and not properly vetted.

      • Alex

        First of all, Ron Paul will be on the ballot in the primaries. If he wins the nomination, he’ll be the Republican candidate. So before anyone worries about splitting the vote and other nonsense like that, let’s first worry about getting him the nomination.

        If he DOESN’T get the Republican nomination and runs independent, then the answer is yes. I will vote for him on the independent ticket. And so will a lot of other people.

        In case you were not aware, the results were just posted recently. Ron Paul won the straw poll in California by a landslide. He had more votes than Romney and Perry combined.

        So stop trying to downplay Ron Paul like a media stooge. He might not be on the television a whole lot because of establishment interference, but he’s got the numbers behind him. He’s not merely a top tier candidate. He’s presently in first place.

      • JeffH

        How much longer will/can the MSM ignore Ron Paul…Ron Paul wins California straw poll…another victory for Ron Paul…

        With a hair less than 45% of the vote, Ron Paul has won this year’s straw poll, which was held in front of the California Republican Party convention delegation.

        At least two of Paul’s supports at the straw poll voted for President Obama, but are disappointed by the results.
        According to MSNBC, one husband and wife couple defected from the Democratic Party:

        “Both of us voted for Obama in 2008,” said Monica Wattana, an emergency care doctor.
        “We kind of fell for the, ‘Change We Can Believe In,’ ” said her husband, Brian Wilson, an engineer. He laughed.

        http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/311643

      • Lewis Munn

        Obama’s election does NOT depend on not voting for Mr. Paul, or anyone else.

        Obama will be re-elected, because he pays off the unions that program and run the voting machines, and pays off the illegals who vote over and over for him for pay.

      • Lewis Munn

        Obama runs the illegals. Obama runs the Unions. Together they control the vote, no matter what the rest of you do. The Illegals can vote early and often, or late in such quantities they cannot be checked; Obama controls the unions, who run the voting machines, and can reprogram critical ones so Obama has a landslide.

        You folks only think you can beat Obama. He has you bamboozled; he holds 5 aces in his hand and he will play every one!

    • DaveH

      He was speaking of Ron Paul, Suzanne, without speaking of him. Read the article again, carefully.

  • Rosco1776

    Ron Paul 2012 or BU$T !!

  • http://donthaveone Beberoni

    Controlling taxes and eliminating the debt is so easy, but both sides of the aisle dont want to do it, because it would mean that they themselves might have to ante up. First of all, close down at least half of our military bases around the world. Now Im the first one to say we need a strong, strong military, as without with we would be taken over in a heartbeat. But we dont need all these bases in France and Germany, and many many other places around the world, sucking billions of dollars out of us. Then, we dont need every swinging joe who served in congress, living on a giant swelled retirement fund for the rest of their lives, making more than they did when working. It is called being a “public servant” for a reason. It is not called “self servant”, where they do a term or two and are taken care of for life. Its so, so wrong. And they need to pay for their health insurance just as you and I do. Any law they pass, they themselves should be subject to it. Then there are government agencies that just suck the life out of us, that need either shrunk or totally done away with. The Department of Energy, which was founded by Carter to wean us off of foreign oil, now employs around 280,000 people plus contracts out another 100 thousand, and hey, guess what, we are just as dependant on oil as we were when this started. Only now we are also paying billions to support these government jobs, which obviously have failed miserable. We spend billions on the public school system, which is and has been a dismal failure for years. Time to get out of it and let the private system take over, which has shown to be a much more successful model. Government interference has totally ruined our school system. The IRS is another money sucker. Get rid of federal income tax, and just pay a flat tax on items, maybe 10 percent. I mean, if I buy a 400.00 fishing boat, I pay my 10 percent. If a rich bastard like John Kerry buys a 40 million dollar yacht, he pays 10 percent. Close the loopholes that let people escape taxes, and make it even across the board. Mr. Poor guy spends 20 bucks on something, he pays 10 percent. This way it is totally equal, as 10 percent is 10 percent is 10 percent. No loopholes, no so called poor not paying any but collecting it, and no filthy rich guy writing it off, and everyone pays the piper. Big government is killing us, and they keep expanding and creating more and more for us working folks to pay for. Look, the first stinking thing Obama and the democrats did was expand social handout programs. They enlarged welfare, food stamps, unemployment, and even went as far as to sign into law that they now use our money to perform abortions in third world countries. We need to stop this nonsense. We pay billions supporting illegal aliens, that should be returned to where they came from. We spend billions on marijuana eradication, which is such a waste, as it grows right back. We subsidize oil companies which are making record profits. Stupid. We give millions and billions to Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Syria, Jordan, Turkey and many other countries that are not, and I repeat, are not our friends. Stupid, stupid, stupid. Thank all the lawyers in the world that have all become politicians, and have fixed it so that nothing gets done without them getting paid. One day, Im sure it is coming, that when someones indentity is discovered that they are a lawyer, they will be taken into the backwoods, and what they do is becoming tiring, very tiring. Shame on all of you in charge that do these damning things to this country, and shame on all of you that continue to vote in these career politicians. Time for some new blood, and if they dont work for us, vote them out the very next election. From what I see, these two parties have created a division in we the people, that keeps them in power by siding against the other guys. Its time we the people became one, and started kicking their deadbeat buts to the curb every election until they finally get it. Im from Indiana, and Im sorry folks, but there is no way a guy like Dick Lugar should be getting elected year in and year out. He has done nothing, but be a member of the good old boys network. All these guys like him, Lugar, McCain, Kerry, Daschle, and I dont care what side they are on, these career guys need to go. They are so entrenched with special interest groups, all they care about is whats in it for them. Shame on them all.

    • Don

      Amen Beberoni, i am with you all the way !!

    • dan

      This are the most sensible statements read on this post yet. This government has become one of “Parties” These parties are not loyal to the people or the country, only their party. To many Americans have fallen into the same…that being party loyalty. Neither party is better than the other, neither party wants to relinquish control , power, or money for the benefit of the country. Conservative, Liberal, Christian, or non-believer…these are all terms utilized to keep the mainstream at odds with each other. What happened to being an AMERICAN or better yet, a HUMAN BEING. Fire them all! Limit their terms! The party politics Party has been going on to long. Time for them to dryout and sober up! JMHO

  • http://www.easyinvest.co.za peter

    We need to somehow “convince” the government that it works for s and not that we work for it. That is not easy to do when we keep on giving the government everything that they demand from us. The only thing they will understand is when we stand up and say: “The party’s over now government, it’s time to do things differently and replace you all with competent people. No more nonsense from you guys, it is now time to set out the solutions and put in place the remedy. You guys never did and never will cut it so we are going to do it ourselves. We have the competent and honourable people at our disposal so you can all take a walk and watch while we fix

    • Lost in Paradise

      They will not believe us, until their blood runs in the streets like rainwater.

  • Denis F

    Ron Paul? A good man with some good ideas and ideals but he does not have the strength to pull it off. Everyone of ‘em has some good ideas but unfortunately, so far they also have lots of shortcomings. Unfortunately, until we get organized and refuse to tolerate their bull, we have what we have.

  • Jan

    At least a real question at a debate, isn’t what the debates are suppose to be(?), off the cuff questions to get real answers from the candidiates? All of the candidiates should have been given time to answer that young man’s question. I’d be interested in their replies. Seeing my monthly pension check, the gov’t taking their 10% cut off the top, which is more than enough.

    • Alex

      I’d have liked to have heard the replies as well. I already know what Ron Paul thinks. He wants to repeal income tax, the death tax, capital gains tax, and a few others. That alone would have gotten him cheers, while the rest of the candidates would have been forced to either follow his lead (and essentially make promises that would come back to haunt them when they didn’t follow through), or make promises not quite as appealing as Paul’s.

      • DaveH

        Gingrich referred to the young man’s question and said “We’re going to let you keep more of your money, if you create more of what we want”.
        There it is folks, Freudian slip or not. They will “let you” keep more of your money if you do things their way.
        How much more proof do we need that these establishment Republicans think our money is their money?

        • bob wire

          aah !, you are kidding ! Did Snuty Newty real say that? ~ It does sound like his “wording style” , something he would attempt to pull off.

          Like his “Social engineering, where it left or right is not good”

          I like to have cried with laughter with that one. An “In your fact admission” that the right is engaged in the practice just like the left.

  • http://angeltracks alicia

    Ron Paul says that we need the government out of our lives as much as possible!!! He’s got my vote! The government is to serve the people, not the people serve the government. WE are the people. This country was started by people who wanted to be free from the things we are experiencing today. If you study history and what the elite have done to the Constitution you can pretty much see what has gone wrong. For example: The original 13th amendment is an important issue. Search it and go from there. The creators of the Consitution warned us of this day if we ignored their words. I urge people to revisit the Constitution, and take it seriously.

  • Pat

    We all want all the perks of civilized society and we want someone else to pay for it. Corporations didn’t leave to escape environmental regulations they left because the could. They were allowed to sell out their homeland and exploit the residents of third world countries. Notice they didn’t move to heavily unionized Europe that has a flat across the board tax rate with no loop holes. Its is amazing that the workers will so staunchly support paying double the tax as the elite 10% who hold the bulk of the nation’s wealth. It should be obvious by now that if that system worked everyone would be employed. During the time of this country’s greatest growth and prosperity we had a 90% tax bracket. That was in the good old days when all who wished to be were employed and everyone thrived. The rich were richer than most and the rest lived at a higher standard than today.

    • DaveH

      Yes,
      Isn’t it amazing that some countries will accept a Gift Horse without looking it in the mouth? Oh, the foolishness.

    • DaveH

      No, that is wrong, Pat. Our greatest growth and prosperity came before the Progressives took increasing control of our country:
      http://mises.org/daily/4156/Failure-and-Prosperity

      Also, it might be noted that our Governments only spent 24% of GDP in 1950 (when income tax rates were 91%), while they spend 40% of GDP currently. Why are things so bad now, when Government is spending nearly twice as much?

  • Labs111

    As citizens of our community, county, state, and the United States of America, we accept the responsibility to support the common services we need to have in place. We also must accept that we have to pay for the necessary services we need that we cannot provide for ourselves. Here is where the struggle comes-”What services do we really need to provide as a community versus what services must we provide for ourselves”?

    At the birth of our nation the list of “community provided services” was very small because people were far more proud and independent. Today we have evolved into a majority of “moochers”. With the growth of government people have recognized that we can demand more freebies and get them simply by trading off our vote. In the eyes of many “the government” is a person by itself with endless and infinite ability to gives us anything we demand. Few people look at themselves as part of the government. As long as we can have the “other guy” pay more into the government sinkhole while we keep taking more and more out, we are happy. It’s alwasy the other guy that needs to put more in.

    When did this lack of self-dependence start? I suspect we evolved into it as Marxist/Socialist/Communist types infiltrated our country. We have slowly permitted the “get it for nothing” attitude be a controlling factor of our daily lives, and it has been passed on now through several generations of Americans. It’s like giving a child a lollipop. Once they have it and are enjoying it, I dare you to try and take it away without a riot occuring.

    There is only one way to solve the economic and moral pain we have created in our country. It’s called “endure the pain of retraction”.
    Unless we can once again make ourselves more self-dependent (retract to the way it used to be)like our ancestors were, we will find a growing government simply ruling our lives with our indirect permission. Herein lies the problem. It is human nature that we want to avoid self-inflicted pain at all costs. So we will defer to this person we call “government” to provide for us. As they fail we feel some great justification in blaming our problems on the government.

    We must begin NOW to reduce our government to the essential services we need as a community. We have too many “lollipops” being given away by government, and too many crooked politicians making money off of those lollipops. Start by taking “money power” away from those politicians by putting the “Fair Tax” proposal in place. Not a flat tax, but the actual “HR25 FAIR TAX” proposal. Then pass a required annual “balanced budget” ammendment. No excuses. with the available money identify the essential services the federal government must provide (such as a strong national defense). All of the “less than essential” services will be tossed back to the individual citizen to provide for themselves. Will there be pain? Oh yes. But there is no choice. “Necessity is the mother of invention”. Americans need to retract and learn (and embrace) independence and self-reliance once again. If we are unable to do this we are destined to become slaves of government an tyranical leaders (just like so many other countries).

  • Klaus

    EPA, FDA, USDA, OSHA, NLRB, HHS, HUD, DOE, FCC, kill them all. We don’t need any regulation. They are run by mostly lawyers anyhow. I don’t think you will find too many scientists at EPA as an example, just environmental nutcases.

  • transponder

    The Dems have murdered over 55,000,000 tax payers, customers, employees, employers, business owners, Social Security payers, Medicare payers, etc. How many of these 55 million would have found the cure for cancer and a whole slew of other problems? How many would have invented such things as the mythical Warp Drive? The Dems and all who support abortion are enemies of this population, country and of GOD!

    • Labs111

      True. Abortion is the number one national and worlwide crime, fashioned by greedy individuals to control population and demographics. At the current rates of abortions Americans will become extinct as a people, while the Muslim world (who does not permit abortions) will rule America by becoming the majority population. Are you ready for Sharia Law?

    • Angel Wannabe

      transponder so true, I know many talented folks holding back entrepenureship, because they don’t want to be forced into giving little less than half of they’re earnings. I say its time to starve Washington out!

    • professor

      We couldn’t support another 55,000,000 on Medicaid…or any of the social programs! Sad, but half of this country doesn’t pay taxes, they are sucking up free money and benefits paid for by those brave individuals that are still willing to work and support them!

      People that work are drowning in debt, trying to stay in their homes while the muslim wants to raise taxes.. Don’t think that the tax hike will only be on the rich. The rich are the ones creating jobs and the products that everyone else buys. When taxes go up, those increases are passed on to all the customers, not just rich customers…. Higher taxes on the rich effects everyone in this country that buys a loaf of bread or a gallon of gas!

      • eddie47d

        “The rich are the ones creating jobs” That is only partially true and the rest is a fairy tale. Edison wasn’t rich at first neither was Gates or Jobs. Average Americans come up with inventions after years of struggle and then become rich. Few people with lots of money ever invent anything or create employment with money alone. We have a multi-trillion dollar economy and the wealthy are not opening up or creating new jobs. It’s the little guy working in his garage or in a lab who actually creates those jobs. The wealthy usually sit back and make money off of money and build bigger houses,buy up land and pad their bank accounts. They are not saving America they are sucking it dry for personal gain. They truly do become the Elites and control each and every one of us.

        • Angel Wannabe

          eddie47d, I gotta ask, do you work for yourself?__ and if not __ did you ever work for a POOR MAN?__think about that when your bashing the rich capitalist, while cashing your paycheck,__kinda redundit isn’t it??

          • Lewis Munn

            Angel, I got fired by a very rich man, after I worked all night on an emergency problem, fixed it, and failed to show up for the regular work at 8AM.

            He got his ear chewed by the government administrative judge for that, but I never got a job in my profession anywhere again afterwards.

            Corporate money can talk in many ways.

          • Angel Wannabe

            Lewis, all of the rich aren’t bad Lewis, you got one that forgot where he came from_I’ve worked for a few too__all I can say that Karmas a b*tch, it all comes back.

          • eddie47d

            Angel, I “bash the rich capitalists” who deserved to be taken on. Maybe you need to be more aware of how they are taking us (and You) for a ride. Monsanto and Goldman Sacs are still in business so feel free to take them on.

        • DaveH

          If you believe that the Small Business Entrepreneur is the backbone of our country, Eddie, then why do you support Big Government which burdens them with piles of small-business-killing regulations?
          If you read the book “The Big Ripoff: How Big Business and Big Government Steal Your Money”, you would know that Big Government and Big Business work hand in hand to stifle the smaller businesses and thus take advantage of them, their consumers, and the taxpayers.
          Do yourself a favor, Eddie. Take some time off to read the book, instead of pestering us, and come back when you know something.

          • eddie47d

            I don’t believe I have gone after “small business entrepreneurs” as you accuse me of doing. You must be related to Dan in his false accusations.

          • JeffH

            eddie, eddie, eddie…do you read and comprehend at all or do you scan a comment and just react without comprehending what someone says?

            Your response clearly defines the answer to my question.

        • Dan az

          Eddie
          The little guy that creates out of his garage is the same person that you think is stealing all the money that you keep blaming!Gates comes to mind!Started in a garage by two kids and turned into something that you hate!So which is it?The big business or the little guy that got a head that your against that supplied millions of jobs and got rich from hard work.Do you think an inventor can manufacture his Ideas?Is it not the gamble that you have to take with your life’s savings to go to market to hopefully one day make it back and then some.I’m confused eddie with your logic!Or is it that your jealous that some one else will work with there own money and gamble that they could lose it all the whole time you and your union buddies sit around at coffee break and complain about your not making enough because look at what they make compared to us that have no skin in the game.Ya I think that fits your logic and every other liberal here.

          • Angel Wannabe

            Dan Az, Honest to God, I’ve been on here since 2009 and still can’t grasp the Liberal think_its ridiculous!

          • JeffH

            Angel, go figure! Ignorance is bliss…must be true!

          • JeffH

            Job Creators Speak Out on Excessive Regulations: Spencer Weitman, National Cement

            Spencer Weitman, a private-sector job creator from Alabama, took a moment today to discuss the impact of excessive federal regulations on his business, National Cement. As Mr. Weitman explains, regulatory obstacles created by Washington have forced National Cement to put a $350 million construction project on hold.
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKpN3CR-rJg

          • JeffH

            Job Creators Back Action on Bills to Protect Jobs Put at Risk by Excessive Government Regulations

            At a House Energy & Commerce Subcommittee on Energy & Power hearing yesterday, American job creators voiced their support for legislation that is expected to be voted on in the coming weeks that will help address the regulatory burdens that are hampering job creation.

            Here are some of the highlights:
            One planned regulatory action, the new “Boiler MACT” rules, would affect thousands of American job creators – from factories to hospitals to municipalities – that use boilers. James A. Rubright, Chief Executive Officer of Rock-Tenn Company, cited a recent study that found that the rule would cost the U.S. forest products industry $7 billion and “would place at risk 36 mills and over 20,000 jobs in the pulp and paper sector alone, about 18% of its workforce.” Rubright warned that “the current wave of regulations is unsustainable,” and that “living with such an uncertain regulatory environment not only costs current jobs, but also prevents new jobs from being created.” Rubright urged Congress to pass the EPA Regulatory Relief Act (H.R. 2250), bipartisan legislation sponsored by Rep. Morgan Griffith (R-VA), “as soon as possible” to address the regulatory uncertainty that is putting jobs at risk. (Testimony, 9/8/11
            )
            Todd Elliott, General Manager of Celanese Corporation, said that the pending boiler regulations would impact one of the company’s facilities in Virginia that “currently employs more than 550 skilled workers and an additional 400 contractors.” Elliott warned that the cost increase associated with the rules could cause the company to “lose competitiveness and jobs.” (Testimony, 9/8/11)

            Dan Harrington, President and CEO of Lehigh Hanson, Inc., a supplier of heavy building materials to the construction industry, said just one of several new regulations affecting the cement industry “could force the closure of 18 out of the nearly 100 U.S. cement plants,” job losses that “will not be readily absorbed in the communities where most plants are located.” Harrington said the Cement Sector Regulatory Relief Act (H.R. 2681), introduced by Energy & Power Subcommittee Vice Chairman John Sullivan (R-OK), will “mitigate regulatory uncertainty and … preserve jobs that serve as the anchor of dozens of American communities.” (Testimony, 9/8/11)
            http://www.speaker.gov/blog/default.aspx?postid=259182

          • JeffH

            Washington Regulations Are Hurting Jobs – VIDEO
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGqgFGcDPIs&feature=channel_video_title

          • Dan az

            Way to go Brother!Can you find the one on the new unconstitutional powers that 0 gave EPA to circumvent congress?You know the one that gives them the right to make laws for their cap and trade taxation on all business?
            Oh and my new pic is a liberal that is looking for a clue!

          • JeffH

            Brother Dan, I think that the senate has put that to rest for now.

            Nice pic…must be a liberal looking for some kind of inspiration… :)

        • LES

          And they were not creating any jobs when they were not rich, only after making money could they create jobs.

          • Angel Wannabe

            LES, Yay!__Thanks be to Christ, someone else that gets it!

            You to JeffyH! Well said my man! :)

        • crisscross

          Eddie, you really don’t have a clue. Beyond DNC talking points, there’s a real world out there where most wealthy people earned their wealth working hard and where the fortunate few who can live off of their investments have every right to do so, every right to enjoy their success without having it confiscated by others…a real world that has nothing to do with your version.

  • Watchman on the wall

    If you look at what Gov has been doing the last decade from another viewpoint, it all makes sense. The USA has been the worlds policeman for a long time, but for the 1 world order to be established, the policemen needs to be taken out. This is being done economically, by a purposeful crashing of our currency. We CANNOT in any way pay the promises to our elderly in SS, Medicare & Medicade, the bill is beyond what we make as a nation. What to do? Crash the dollar/economy and hit the “reset” button. We will not be the worlds policeman after we collapse, then the NWO can move forward. If YOU wanted to crash the US currency, what would YOU do? Exactly what the Gov has been doing. Get ready for it, prepare now.

  • Labs111

    The basis of creating income for the nation based primarily on the taxing of INCOME is a huge problem. We should all be able to keep 100% of what we produce in income (including corporations)! The nations only income should come solely from a tax on consumption. This will take the “money power” away from crooked politicians. For more income to flow to government we would have to “consume more” as a nation. This would provide more jobs and more consumers. Tie this to a mandatory “Balanced Budget Ammendment” and we will have widespread properity in this country once more.

    • DaveH

      Before the 16th Amendment was passed, the taxes for the support of the Federal Government came from the States based on their population size. Essentially, it was a True Flat Tax, except the individual States could decide how to extract it from their citizens. That was a wise provision, and we should return to it.
      Ideally every adult should be liable for the same amount of Federal tax (a True Flat Tax), with the possible exception of those Federal services which could easily be allocated to the actual users of those services. That way, every adult would have skin in the game (as it should be), and you can bet that the size of the Federal Government would be decreased rapidly as the adults who then had to pay equally would demand much more bang for their buck.

  • Chris

    At least Herman Cain’s “9/9/9 Plan” seriously addresses tax relief for citizens, albeit keeping government revenue roughly the same.

  • Jack

    You have all missed the one we need. Palin for president!!

    • Capitalist at Birth

      Unfortunately, I don’t think Sarah will run. She has been my choice all along.

  • home boy

    for all you boys and girls that where not paying attention last thursday and friday, the fed has given 11 billion to the imf ( international monetary fund) togive to greece. thanks tim geithner .

  • Raggs

    What do you think that this is about?

    It is easy to control people when you control their food.
    It’s all about CONTROL folks!

  • http://www.republicofflorida.org/educationcenter/fedfraud.html Joe

    According to the Federal Reserve’s own documentation found in the book, “Modern Money Mechanics”, there is no longer anything in America that is classified as “money”. In the Federal Reserve scheme, there is only “Credit” and “Debit”. The notes we exchange is not money, it is debt. This concept seems to elude most of the American public.

    As for the moronic reply of, or lack thereof, in regards to the young man’s question, the answer is quite simple; we keep all of it. That’s right, before the Federal Reserve Act and the IRS Act was passed on December 23rd, 1913, the American people paid 0% private federal income tax to the Federal Government. Federal Income Taxes were paid by Corporations and that cost was of course passed on to the public.

    The complex mechanisms, lies and perplexing circumstances surrounding the American tax codes and monetary system is not understood by the public at large. It seems that even the author of this article does not fully comprehend the Ponzi scheme being perpetrated by the Private enterprise known as the Federal Reserve. This is exactly how these criminals have been able to perpetrate these crimes against the people for almost 100 years now.

    Consider the most insidious of all taxes. Most of you will not even understand it, because you have been purposefully brainwashed to think the following is; “Just the way it has always been”. What I am speaking of is “inflation”. Inflation as it exists in today’s world is not based on the 65 century track record of supply and demand. For the past 100 years, inflation is the hidden tax robbing you blind.

    Consider this; if you were born in 1912 and inherited 1 million dollars, kept that million in a shoebox, never spent a penny and were still alive today, the purchasing power of that same million as of 1912 would have been reduced to approximately $20,000 if spent today. This is how we are silently robbed, not by gun point, not by someone breaking into our home and taking our paper money, but by the Unconstitutional Federal Reserve inflating our currency and stealing from us the value of the paper’s purchasing power.

    Inflation is the ultimate hidden tax on the people of any nation that uses a fiat currency, which today, is almost everyone. So, the first step in regards to correcting the tax problems of America must be to first phase out the Federal Reserve system and back to a commodity based currency system controlled by Congress. The second stage is to phase out the IRS and the personal federal income tax.

    Ron Paul is the only candidate that has been fighting for the elimination of the Federal Reserve and the IRS for more than 30 years. If you have never paid any attention to Ron Paul before, I suggest you get educated on these scams and take a closer look at Ron Paul. No single man can fix these problems, but he will “light brush fires in the minds of men”, if he’s elected. From there, the dialog will be mainstream and “we the people” can push for honest money and a reasonable tax system.

    http://www.ronpaul2012.com – Information about Ron Paul

    http://www.republicofflorida.org/educationcenter/fedfraud.html
    The Federal Reserve fraud explained in great detail.

  • Old Henry

    Bob, you stated that no one other than Huntsman was asked the question and no one else came back to it. That would include Ron Paul.

    Why did Ron Paul NOT come back to that question?

    • DaveH

      Here is the debate in it’s entirety:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6D7VO2eEJc

      • DaveH

        I want to clarify something for the many people out there who buy into the excuse local Governments use to vaccinate your children. It was stated by Rick Santorum. He said the vaccination programs were okay at public schools because they were protecting the kids who might catch diseases from the unvaccinated kids. This is a completely fallacious argument because if parents chose to vaccinate their children, and if the vaccine really worked, those children would be in no danger from the unvaccinated kids, would they? It is simply another example of Government making your choices for you, and using a lie to justify their Force.

      • DaveH

        I want to point out how CNN worked their magic on this debate. This is how the mainstream media in general leads the public around by the nose. Rick Perry got twice as much face time as any of the other candidates. And Face Time is very important because voters tend to vote for those candidates they recognize the most.
        DON’T LET THE MSM CHOSE YOUR CANDIDATE THIS TIME!

        • JeffH

          DaveH, thank you for nailing it.

          Subliminal priming effect of Word and Object on Object recognition.
          The effect of subliminal repetition.

      • Old Henry

        Thanks DaveH. I saved the link and will watch it. I did not get to see the entire debate last Monday.

        • DaveH

          And thank you for saying nice things about me, Henry.

    • Dan az

      Old Henry
      Who controlled the questions?Did anyone other than huntsman get the question to answer?

      • Old Henry

        Dan az:

        no one other than Huntsman got the question, but any of the candidates could have interjected an answer along the way. None did. Not even Dr. Paul it would seem.

        However, as I read somewhere last week, Dr. Paul got the fewest questions of the group, so his time had to be used very judiciously.

        • DaveH

          Actually, Newt did answer the question, though it was not directed at him. See my other related comment.

  • Donald

    Bob has just about eliminated all the presidential candidates. Perhaps he should tell us who he thinks we should be considering.

    • Dan az

      Donald
      There is only one and thats Ron Paul.Who stands for the constitution?Name me one.Yep only one get it!

      • JeffH

        Brother Dan…Ron Paul 2012…

        • Dan az

          You cheat! I know you have a clue!

          • OB1

            Again, no media coverage. CNN took this down ASAP! Here’s an uplift:

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LxC3M-Yngs&feature=youtube_gdata

            NO TSA, no cops, lets see…..does he make house calls?

            (CNN) — Texas Rep. Ron Paul won a California straw poll, the state Republican Party announced in a statement Saturday night.

            A total of 833 ballots were cast during the straw poll, the statement said.

            Paul won with 44.9% of the votes, Texas Gov. Rick Perry came in second with 29.3% of the votes, and former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney came in third with 8.8% of the votes.

            The California Republican Party, associated members and registered guests were allowed to vote in the straw poll, according to the statement.

            Paul was scheduled to give speeches in Los Angeles on Saturday, including the keynote at the Republican Liberty Caucus of California.

    • Old Henry

      Dan az:

      Last week, Friday I think, you asked Bob for Spell-Check to aid with your poor spelling. (?)

      Here is an idea. Do you have Word or its equivalent if you have a MAC on your machine? If so, simply use a blank document to type your reply then copy / paste it into the reply box.

      The program will point out mis-spelled words and fragmented sentences and you can correct them.

      • Dan az

        Old Henry
        No what I was wanting was when you click on the commenters box it would be nice if it went to were the comment was posted rather than go to the beginning each time taking far to long to look up that comment.But thanks anyways!

  • Alex

    This rings true, as I am sure since they tried to pass a legislation that would ‘allow’ the IRS to fill out people’s ‘taxation forms’ and then it would send them to the people for them to ‘agree with and sign’. Dis-agreement would not be possible, deductions would not be possible, they would have ‘supposedly’ every piece of ‘payor info’ that they could ‘correctly’ (last year the service perform more than 70% corrections to ‘taxpayers’ accounts) determine based on whatever their computers told them.

    I’m sure gov’ would love for ALL a person’s earnings to be sent to them, then they would ‘determine’ (after spending) how much of an allowance to return to the ‘single person’. If this concept ever came to pass, the people would revolt and destroy anything and everything associated with gov’. This is something long overdue, Ben Franklin once said that revolution is a good thing when gov’ gets too big for it’s own good. (or something to that effect)

    Also, the IMF is a US creation, and fed Trillions by the Fed, which tacks on whatever they give (in the name of the US taxpayer) to the IMF. It’s all a huge ponzi scheme and it needs to end with everyone waking up now!

    • Alex Frazier

      Holy crap, we even write about the same. I couldn’t remember posting that, and then I realized that I didn’t post it.

      Apparently you’re the other Alex that I keep hearing about.

      As of right now I’m changing my screen name to my full name so there isn’t any further confusion.

      Although, it’s kind of neat to see someone talk like me with similar opinions and style (right down to quoting people like Franklin). It’s almost like we’ve got the double team advantage.

  • http://aol.com sean murrey ILLIniois

    shara law can go to hell.

    • bob wire

      If I’m not mistaken , it’s already there.

  • Jack

    Of course it’s control ! That’s what it’s always been about.And Obutthead is the one out of control and our elected bunch of spineless fools in Washington won’t do “ANYTHING” to correct the problem.They all need to go !

  • Baba

    Best said, “In short, paper-money debasement destroys the soul of society. But the longer the elites can keep this a secret, the longer they can maintain their hold on power.” Backs up Friedman’s words: “To Destroy a Society you have to destroy their money.” The question asked by the lad in Tampa was very well received by the audience. Not one hopeful afflutent R Candidate could come up with a good answer. Republican and Democrat elites are on the take so don’t let them hood-wink us. And, NO “hooray” for the affluent man who said he needed to be taxed more on his huge income…he will still hide money so it will not be taxable! He’s not stupid. He knows how those tax dollars are used.

  • bob wire

    I’d enjoy hearing a definition of these “elites” so we might all be on the same piece of sheet music if we expect any “pretty music”.

    Anyone?

    What is the behavior, how does it walk, what kind of sound does it make? Do they come in several colors?

    • OB1

      Yes, bobwire(ed): just like you…….

      • bob wire

        Hmm? well you are entitled to your illusion of me I suppose. But “elite” is something I’ve never been called. I’ve failed many times at many things, lost everything but my name more then once. I can take a hit.

        Only when I woke up one day realizing I was long in tooth and short time and no longer had time for nonsense did I ever begin to excel.

        Life is not fair but it sure is fun! Today’s success is something you prepared for yesterday.

        Just how many yesterdays does each of us have?

        mAYBE i AM “ELITE” ! and just didn’t know it.

        By your own words OB1, “Life is to do or do not” it’s a personal choice.

  • iam

    The government grows larger, takes more from us as we become poorer, and the government says it can take care of us. Trillions of dollars have been wasted on one program to eliminate poverty, yet the poor are now a larger percentage of the population than ever before. Huge agencies, staffed by people who were never elected, create regulations that are never voted on by congress but carry the weight of law. Those same agencies preside over failure while they crow about how they have “improved” our lives. The government carries out open warfare on us, but claims it is for our benefit. BO shouts, “Make the rich pay their fair share!” and hopes you will believe that your own taxes will disappear. The richest among us already pay more than fifty percent of taxes, while the bottom fifty percent of the population pay nothing. Is that the definition of “fair?” The liberalization of the education system has created a brain-dead voting block that will destroy this country.

    • bob wire

      Well Federal Taxes are as low as ever. Maybe you should look at your city, county and state taxes? So if something has “changed” it hasn’t been recent.

      I don’t like paying them either and I find it painful, it hurts!

      I do believe 10% should cover federal government activities, while I pay much more. Like everyone else, it pisses me off.

  • http://gunner689 gunner689

    We have allowed the State and Federal Gvts. to create these numerous, massive buearacracies and give them regulatory powers. These monster groups feed off of tax payer dollars and to justify their position they destroy or control free enterprize. We need to starve the monsters and disband the federal and State workers Union systems. They are supposed to work for us not against us.

    • Patriot II

      Gunner,

      I agree, let’s starve the Beast, we all need to quit paying our taxes!, how simple is that?

      • http://gunner689 gunner689

        What we need is for our State Gvts. to stand up to the Feds and our local gvts. to stand up to the State gvt. when they exceed their Constitutional powers. If we are to survive as a Free poeple we need to get back to a Constitutional Gvt. at all levels.

      • DaveH

        That would work for state and local Governments, Patriot, but the Federal Government would just borrow more (mostly from the Federal Reserve) and just keep on trucking.

    • eddie47d

      Do away with tax breaks or “loopholes” for Corporations of any size or don’t tax corporations at all. Tax the owners or those CEOs who become billionaires and with enhanced benefits. Several big cities have sports stadiums where the taxpayer has to foot the bill in order for the team to build in that city. That is fine yet once the stadium is completed and the team is making money then the owners should have an obligation to pay the city back in full. The owners and players shouldn’t have multi-million dollar contracts while the city has to cover the building debt. Our sports empires have scammed us for too long now. They are also Elites who forgot where they came from.

      • http://gunner689 gunner689

        why do you wallow in class envy ? I recently spent a week in Montana with my nine year old grandson. Unfortunately he goes toa public school and his mother is a liberally minded school teacher. As we talked about life in general I started noting a tinge of class envy and bash the rich in his comments. I then explained to him how Capitalism works by showing him examples as we walked past small businesses and I showed how it all was interconnected. I also explained to him how he would never get a pay check from a poor man and the only thing that stood between him and being a success was his attitude. Think like a loser and you’ll end up a loser. Public schools and society in general is doing a great disservice to our children and it’s up to us parents and grandparents to deprogram them and get their feet and minds back on the right path.

        • JeffH

          gunner689, excellant. I hope your grandson will take hold of your wisdom…he’ll certainly appreciate it when he grasps it.

          • bob wire

            And if you over steer that thought, you become a rich man’s negro. It’s whatever da man wants, da man gets!

            So can we agree that we have two extremes of thought ? no?

            People, rich or poor are not overly interested in sharing. If you can be cut out of the “deal” you will be! Charity begins at home.

            Each of us are left with making ourselves “Marketable” where you shoe horse as a Farrier or paint up and sell personal favors as a prostitute.

            We are left to get our price, if you can be cut-out or undersold you will be. You must “sell yourself” what you can offer, what you can bring to the table.

            Poor people are poor for many reasons, but mainly they are born into it and no one in their early years lights that “spark”, the desire to understand and know things. To master something worthy the effort. So they are left with only the desire “for” things. With no example to follow , no support , no mentor, they simple don’t know how and the walls seem too high to climb. They are stuck, if they do try, failure is common, causing insult to injury on the “self image”

            I was born into such an environment. A Share croppers kid, My aspirations were never high. I never thought about it. No one ever asked me what I wanted to do when I grew up. By 12 I wanted a car and a pretty girl and so I went to work and got both by the age of 14. By 17 I was married with child, house, car, washer and dryer, cheap new furniture and a window air-conditioner. I worked on the 500lb bomb line and thought that I was $hit’en in tall cotton. I worked 76 hours one week and was proud to bring home this fat check, The wife say, what are we going to do, that not enough! I told her she could do whatever she wanted , I was going to bed.

            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
            but

            Nothing supports and validates failure like failure.

            then too,

            Nothing supports and validates success like success.

            The only “way out of poverty” is to “WIN” sometimes, to succeed and the only way to do that is never give up, never stop trying.

            Understand the nature of bad decisions and quit making them. Surround yourself by positive supportive people, stay away for people that are not, easy to say, hard to do because most often they are family.

        • Jibbs

          You need to have that same talk with 47d, he’s about the same age.

          • JeffH

            :)

          • eddie47d

            I didn’t steal to earn my pension Jibbs and I expect those Elites to earn their money fair and square. Whether it’s a demanding sports figure,corporate executive or overpaid politician. I see nowhere that they have earned what they have. So you indeed support those Elites who have priced America out of the world market.

          • JeffH

            eddie, if I use your logic…then every successfull wealthy person doesn’t deserve the fruits of their labor…YUP! Class envy 101!

            Based on the bulk of your postings over the last few years I’d come to the conclusion that if it hadn’t been for the union you couldn’t retire…and probably couldn’t have kept your job on your own merits…just wonderin’ out loud is all.

          • eddie47d

            I don’t need someone elses labor to envy over so take your wondering and take it for a hike. You’re too busy bowing down to money and wealth to see what any working man is doing.

          • JeffH

            DUH eddie! It’s not the labor you envy…it’s the success and the wealth that rewards that success that you envy!

          • crisscross

            Yes Eddie, you may not have stolen for your pension, but neither did most of the wealthy people who worked hard to build their estates and who deserve to be left alone by the class-envy cry babies and redistribution confiscators. The unethical elites are a tiny percentage of the wealthy who are used by progressives and their useful idiots to justify their social justice, class warfare agenda…truly despicable. If there are unethical elites who break the law, then by all means prosecute. But stop using them as an excuse to screw the vast majority of wealthy people who are hard working and honest economic engine of this country.

          • bob wire

            “The unethical elites are a tiny percentage of the wealthy who are used by progressives and their useful idiots to justify their social justice, class warfare agenda…”

            Well , it’s nice to hear you admit that they do exist!

            In as far as some “class warfare” I believe the numbers speak for them selves and they are available to anyone that has an interest and can grasp their meaning. It for you to look them up and not for me to spoon feed you data that you’d only spit back out like English peas.

            This war has been going on for 30 plus years and you are right! It’s just some 200 families that own 60% of Americas wealth today.

            So once again I ask,~ who ta hell is an “elitist”? Who are we really talking about here tonight?

            That someone is tries to defend and protect themselves is starting a class war? Envious of the rich? ~ get real. I’ve never desired great wealth and all the headaches and snakes they have to deal with.

            I would like to see tax reform and everyone pay the same %! EVERYONE! along with user fees that only “users” pay, the government should learn to make do.

            Now is that somehow starting a class war in your mind?

            These is nothing being “started” today we are in the big middle of it!

  • just little ole me

    Okay I really like this article. I have one problem with it. I haven’t picked for who I am voting for. I am looking at several. My problem is they put Herman Cane in there. He hasn’t even been in politics. The others have records and yes I believe they would tax us heavy. But how do we know what Herman Cane would do since he doesn’t have a record yet. They don’t even mention that, they just assume he would and perhaps he would but come on be honest and say you don’t know. All I have heard him talk about is a fair tax for all and there must be some tax. I would set it at 9% after all we should give less to the government then we do to the Lord. Have I missed something. I like Ron Paul on the whole but my gut twists when it comes to him. (especially on letting anyone who wants it have nukes.) Even then I am wondering if it has just been that I seem to trust no one. There are a few things that have hit a wrong cord with me on all the candidates. I don’t want to pick anyone right now. I want to reserve judgement and wait until I feel good about someone. I think to many of us rush to judgement. I don’t want to be handing the kids to a teenager (although many more teenagers are more responsible then some in the government) delinquent. My interviewing with the candidates aren’t over yet. I am still on the hunt for the best man or woman for the job. If you know what I mean. The government is a teenager drunk on a credit card. My answer right now is No and double no.

    What would they do in each of these categories

    Defense (My most important category) If we aren’t securing all
    our border fronts our economy will fail and we are in deep
    water with war because not securing our freedom and safety
    (but not the freedom on our own citizens which they are
    currently doing). Don’t let Iran have nukes since they
    believe we are big Satan and they will surely use them
    against us since they don’t care about their own people and
    would kill millions with it to bring in their Imam.

    Education Get the government out of our schools. Teacher Unions
    got to be reformed or stopped. It has become about the
    adults and not the children.

    Job creation Get the government out of the process Let us the people
    fix it.

    Tax If I had it my way everyone pays 9% If everyone would pay
    their share we would have more money instead of just
    taxing the rich. Poor person speaking here at least the
    governments idea of poor since we make less than 20,000
    a year. We feel rich though because we have what we need
    and not just stuff. It is possible. You don’t hear
    me crying about it.

    Anyway I haven’t picked the candidate yet and any of the candidates don’t fit all those categories yet. Can you name one who does? There in lies our problem. I think (sigh) I will never find my perfect candidate so I will just have to hold my breath and hope for the best one. lol…anyone vote for me? Sorry don’t want the job. Please feel free to point out why I should vote for your candidate. I welcome all the input.

    • Anthony

      Ron Paul Is the only candidate telling the truth. America is going to fall not because of some other countries nukes…..but from what the private Federal Reserve system is doing to our money for its own personal gain. As for Herman Cain is at one time worked for the Federal Reserve.

      • Jay

        The Federal Reserve was created for the sole purpose of destroying America!

      • just little ole me

        Well it is official then I don’t like any of the candidates. Sorry but I don’t agree with Ron Paul on the nukes. A country who poses us a great threat can not under any circumstance get their hands on nukes. It is not political with the Iran President it is belief. How do you fight a belief? He believes he is destined to bring in the Imam. He wouldn’t hesitate to use it and he has said as much. Why do you think so many of us are worried about Iran getting nukes? Our other threat is Mexico’s border and I do agree with Ron Paul on this. I agree with him on 99% percent of what he says. If he is up against Obama you bet your pants I will vote for Ron but until then he isn’t my pick. If we are not safe then jobs or anything else doesn’t matter. What do you think a nuke would do to America? We would be broke in money and spirit, not to mention many lives lost. No way will I go there. Until I hear otherwise from Ron Paul he doesn’t get my vote. I heard him loud and clear at one of the Republican debates. I agree under most circumstances any country should have the right to have nukes but come on common sense dictates The Iranian President (sorry tired and not looking up his name. I can say it in my mind but would horribly misspell it)would use his nuke against us The big Satan in his mind. We must have some safety. I don’t agree on opposing it on Americans though with individual searches at airports and such. We do have constitutional rights. I see wars and rumors of wars and they will come but not if I have any say sigh which unfortunately is hard to get out now a days. Let us just agree to disagree but one thing I am sure we can agree on is we can not take 4 more years of Obama drunk on our money and grabbing our freedom just like many politicians before him. I am not sure which one of the candidates is the lesser of all evils. I do know Mitt Romney is the worst in my opinion. Sad to say since I am a Mormon too but he doesn’t really stand for any of our values so I wish he would just forget he is one. Running as pro choice when running for governor and putting in his Romney care making everyone have insurance, that is just as bad as Obama just on a state level is all. Sounds like Michelle Bachman may have to drop out soon. Rick Perry bothers me as well. Herman Cane, well if he was in the fed that scares me as well. Sigh…I guess I am just hard to please.

  • nw

    Our government is controlled by Wall Street and Big Oil. Both parties are corrupt and owe their alligance to big banks and oil companies. I viewed a documentary called Gashole on LinkTV and the oil companies control Washington. It shows the corrupt from 1900 resulting in today’s world situation. It has come back to bite them because of what the oil companies have done to our environment all for the CEO having 15 million yearly salary. They have manipulated the market and killing our planet and in turn our existance. The technology existed in 1900 for 100 mph, using water. Big Oil makes billions in profit each year. Bush and Cheney in rebuilding Iraq with Halliburton, how many billions did they add to their pockets. If you are able to get LinkTV, watch Gashole, it will make you sick. I believe we can not change the course of this government unless we remove everyone and start over and how do we begin to accomplish that? I believe in Ron Paul, but my God, the oil companies have a hand in everything worldwide. Watch this program, you will be glued to the set and see exactly what we are up against.

    • LES

      Any article based on a car going 100 miles per gallon of water is simply propaganda for dummies. That tale has been going around for decades. If it was possible, somewhere in the world it would have been done.Big oil does not have that much influence in every country. Why does China spend billions around the world looking for oil if they could run their vehicles on water?

      • nw

        Go to Linktv.org and get educated. The idea of water combustion will never happen because it will not produce the billions in profit. The wheels are in motion and it’s too powerful to stop. Big oil has bought the patents and what they can’t buy, they fix by elimination.

  • http://howmuchdoyouthhinkIdeserve Laurence T. Sondgeroth

    Personaly I believe that the federal governmnet has a staff infection which is terminal. Their are way too many bureaucrats in DC. who do not know who or what they are regulating. They only know why and that is because that is what they are told, by czars, that that is their job. A Statesman once said that IF you give up LIBERTY for SECURITY you will end up with neither one. IF we change elected officials and do not change the bureaucratic STAFF we change nothing as to how this government operates.

  • Jack

    Unions are one of the most dangerous factors in our country today.Not only the teachers,but ALL Unions are against the American workers.They do Nothing anymore except steal our money and we are forced to belong or loose our jobs.This isn’t the American way of life when we are forces against our will.Where has freedom gone ?? When Obutthead backs the Union thugs against the will of the people ,it’s time to remove the problem .Anyway it takes !!! just like the criminal acts of the gansters of the union against Gibson guitars and the non donatation towards the Obutthead election,they will go after and try and show their muscles against the American way of life.The war is soon to begin !

    • eddie47d

      Unions have never been against the American worker just the opposite. Not all companies need or want unions and that is their choice. If you don’t like unions then don’t work for that company.

      • http://gunner689 gunner689

        Obviousl you are unaware of “closed shop States” You either join the Unions or you don’t work.

        • Jack

          Yes you are right . Try GM in Michigan and see if you can work there without the union ? LOL They have over paid their workers to a point where they have had to raise the price of autos to where most of the works can hardly afford a car. Now where is the union after we retire? The benefits are not what was promised and with obutthead care in place we wouldn’t even have the Ins.for medical that we worked for.To hell with the unions !!!! Former Chevy worker.

          • JeffH

            BOEING?

          • eddie47d

            Why are you blaming unions Jack? The can only negotiate with whoever they work for. Management can giveth and they can taketh. If you have a problem with receiving benefits go to the guy in charge. He’s the one who gave you the shaft. Poor management can make or break a company and you have been broken. There are several companies in the last 30 years that have abolished pensions,health benefits and the whole nine yards. I’m not sure if you want to know how much the executives received while you were thrown scraps.

          • JeffH

            Hmmm, you don’t really believe that do you? The unions don’t negotiate anymore, they buy the power of negotiation through political donations for pro union labor laws. Can you say NLRB?

            Labor Unions: The Biggest Political Donors from ’89 – ’12
            six out of the top 10 are unions.
            #2. American Fedn of State, County & Municipal Employees – $45,820,853
            #5. Service Employees International Union – $37,151,289
            #6. National Education Assn – $36,433,925
            #8. Intl Brotherhood of Electrical Workers – $33,824,355
            #9. Laborers Union – $31,640,067
            #10. American Federation of Teachers – $31,342,403
            …and six more from 11 – 20 are unions.

            Hmmmm?

          • eddie47d

            We were talking about salaries and benefits and Jeff chimes in about political donations. Had to get you licks in don’t you Jeff?! Unions collect those donations out of separate funds given to them by individual members not union dues. Will you list donations from the Chamber of Commerce now or should we leave that can of worms alone?

          • JeffH

            Sorry eddie, the Chamber of Commerce just wasn’t in the top 140 political donor list nor could I find them in a search on this website. They are listed as donating $21,500 for this election cycle 2012…small taters!
            http://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/lookup2.php?strID=C00082040

          • crisscross

            Eddie, your “separate funds” argument is completely wrong in states like California where the unions have been funding the largest political campaigns in state history using forced union dues. This has gone on for so many years that the unions have bought and paid for majorities in the legislature, cowed down administrations and destroyed any reasonable chance for taxpayers to save themselves from the unions unsustainable economic agendas that continue to bankrupt state after state.

          • JeffH

            eddie after further review, the unions do use collect union dues for political donations.

            “We have a very unusual circumstance in this country,” Romney said, “and that is that we allow union bosses to collect dues from union members and then to use that money as the union boss sees fit to elect people who might do their bidding. It’s unseemly at best.”

            “I will pursue and hopefully enact legislation which inhibits taking money in the form of dues and putting it behind political campaigns. That should not happen.” Romney promises to outlaw union dues as political contributions
            _________________________________________________________

            National Right to Work: Are You Funding Your Union’s Federal PAC (Political Action Committee) Unknowingly or Against Your Will?
            Political Action Committees (PACs) contribute money to political candidates for their election campaigns. Some PACs contribute to candidates for state and local offices ” governors, mayors, state representatives, state senators, etc. Other PAC’s contribute to candidates for federal office ” President, U.S. Senate and House of Representatives.

            It is unlawful for a labor union to take money from your paycheck for contributions to a federal PAC or for the federal PAC to accept such contributions without your written authorization.
            One national union PAC, according to the FEC audit, could not produce written authorizations for 93% of PAC contributions the FEC examined. Another national union PAC was unable to show authorizations for at least 67% of the contributions the FEC examined. This suggests a widespread problem: union PACs are making political contributions to federal candidates with employees’ money taken without their written authorizations.

      • http://gunner689 gunner689

        There are 3 main reasons we lost our mfg. base in this country;

        1) Union Greed ( the high cost of labor and poor quality goods )
        2) Gvt. Over-regulations
        3) Excessive taxes

        When we lost our mfg. base we lost our middle class.

      • Thinking About

        Unions comes in many forms and not all are members of AFL-CIO. ABA, AMA and many more like DNC, RNC, Libertian Party and Tea Party. Groups working for a common cause is united and trying to achieve their desires.

  • Anthony

    Under Article I section 9 of the Constitution it says “No Capitation, or other direct, Tax shall be laid” so how does the income tax get around this? Before you jump an say the 16th Amendment look at what the Supreme Court had to say about the 16TH Amendment.

    “The Sixteenth Amendment…..does not extend the taxing power to new or excepted subjects….
    Peck & Co. v. Lowe, 247 U.S. 165, at 172 (1918)

    What this means is the taxing power congress had before the 16th Amendment remained the same after the 16th Amendment.

    1895 the Supreme Court stated that a income tax on wages was Unconstitutional.

    So in 1895 it was Unconstitutional to tax wages an the 16th Amendment did not change anything…..so what makes it Constitutional today?

    • crisscross

      Ignorance, fear, intimidation and a nasty little legal doctrine called “judicial notice.”

  • jopa

    If everyone paid there fair share the tax burden would not be on the middle class as is always the case.Get rid of all the tax loopholes for the rich and the corporations that have been sending lobbiests to Washington to have the tax codes written in their favor.Many companies like GE,big oil and multi-millionaire bankers pay little or no tax whatsoever.In fact some even get refunds in the way the tax codes have been re-written.Any so called American company like Haliburton that doesn’t have an American mailing address when it comes to taxes should not be given government contracts.If everyone paid a little such as 19% across the board and no loopholes we would be doing fine.

    • http://gunner689 gunner689

      ” loop holes ” are necessary for investment and many industries, such as home building, to occur. I say tax the 47% that don’t pay income tax and tax the benefits the so called poor in this country recieve. We ALL need to pay our fair share. I’ve been pulling the wagon since I was 14 yrs. old and the load just keeps getting heavier.

    • Anthony

      I agree with a lot of what you say……but before 1913 we did not have a income tax and everything was fine. Just remember the income is not about money……its about control. Our government through the Federal Reserve prints trillions of dollars. So why do they need to rob your pay check? Again its about control not money…when it comes to the so called income tax!

    • eddie47d

      Haliburton is notorious for spiking the cost of it’s services and should have been dumped at the beginning of the Iraq War. This private company is a war profiteer and the tax payer get’s stuck with the bill. They also use the name KBR and in Afghanistan alone they charged our government $119 million for 1000 rental cars they brought into that country. They were mostly for Afghan officials. KBR was paid $700 million for feeding our troops. Our government now has a lawsuit against them for extortion. They are also paid $36.3 BILLION for offering base support. (I thought we had enlisted soldiers for that job). KBR can’t even account for $100 million for buildings they were suppose to build.How do you lose $100 million in constructed buildings? KBR was paid $5 million for 144 mechanics to fix military equipment. Found out those mechanics only worked about an hour a month. KBR provided electrical services in Afghanistan yet their work was so bad that 12 soldiers have already been electrocuted. When they went to build roads at a set price they always charged 2-3 times the original cost. How sweet can that be? Our government also allowed Blackwater (XE) to work in Afghanistan although they were under indictment in Iraq. Haliburton also set up the banking system in Kabul by sub contracting the Deloitte Corp(accounting firm on Wall St) They were given $92 million to do the job plus $900 million to give the bank collateral. In 2010 the Kabul bank collasped and the $900 million is no where to be found. Some may say why did our government hire Haliburton thugs to begin with but it also proves how dishonest private corporations are and how they are ripping off the taxpayers

      • crisscross

        It doesn’t matter whether it’s waste in warfare, corporate welfare or social welfare. They are all antithetical to a heathy republic and economy. The central banks and their fiat money system promote and facilitate all of these corrupt policies and the unjust progressive taxation that inevitably goes with them, while distracting us with ridiculous partisan politics.

    • Jay

      Nonsense! What most don’t understand is that, the majority of the taxes, go to pay for the debt we owe, which btw, doesn’t even cover the interest on the debt. As we all know, Interest not fully paid, or left-over, compounds, so naturally taxes need to be raised to keep up with compounding interest on the debt. Despite what we’re told, taxes raised are not used for job creation, that’s a load of crapola, it is used to pay the interest on the debt, and if there’s anything left over, no such luck, but, if there were, guaranteed, it will be squandered.

  • freeman

    Ron Paul has answered this question before, although I must admit I cannot find it in this particular forum, although I thought that he did come back and answer it, and his answer is always the same. He thinks we should keep ALL of our money and he is the only one who would eliminate the IRS. He has said this before: “Did anybody think that the Federal government was too small back in 2001? Of course not. Well, if we cut back the size of the Federal government to 2001 levels right now, we could eliminate the IRS overnight because that’s how much the government has grown since then.” (slight paraphrasing there).

  • http://moniquer7 Merlin

    I don’t like theses polititians attitudes!

  • Larry

    @Labs111 I totally agree with that and it makes alot of sense. Unfortunately, though I believe in the “its never too late” philosophy, it may already be too late to change the movement that has been unchanged for over a century in this country alone. This country’s people have slowly forgotten themselves why the United States of America was founded in the first place. If I remember history correctly, the people wanted to be able to worship God freely without government interferrence which was the King of England. The King used religion as a control over his people because at that time and they grew tired of it. Bibles were illegal to own and even if some had them they could not translate from the Greek it was written in. After the settling of America, away from the tyranny, people could worship however they wanted without consequence of the King. Some of our fore fathers played integral parts in the writing of an english bible so that people could read in their own language what it truly said instead of the translation the King’s Bishops were preaching. By the time the King realized he was losing some of that control it was already too late for him and the road to conflict and eventual war began. After the declared independence and the start of new government for the now United States of America a constitution was written explaining our reasons for separating from England and what we were going to stand for as a nation. Nowhere does it say anything about separation of church and state. Only it says that the state should make no laws concerning religion or church organizations. That simply means that they were relinquishing government of churches to God and not to themselves mere men! Not that any of them could follow their own faith, but that they would be free to do so and many of our fore fathers stated and believed that faith in God was even essential if not the most important thing we had to ourselves for a just and fair government. Now I haven’t left out where the so called separation of church and state policy came from. Thomas Jefferson wrote a letter in an attempt to clarify the passage of the constitution about making no laws concerning religion or church organizations. If you take this letter out of context and it was only an informal letter, which someone did take out of context and applied it to our constitution as if it were written there. It has been quoted so long that most American people believe it to be absolute truth. We are living and teaching our children a lie! You want to know why there are so many athiests? You take God out of the equation, you get corruption and chaos abound. I’m not ashamed to admit I am a christian and am ready at any time to share the gospel of Jesus Christ with anyone who will listen. It is and has always been the truth. Our fore fathers knew it, yet just one lie, one misconception, one out of context statement, has put this nation on the road to destruction, when the freedom our ancesters fought for was simply voted out by denying God whose grace founded this country by faithful followers, not by ahteistic revolutionists.

    • Larry

      Sorry my last sentence should say “atheistic revolutionists.” Sometimes I get fumble fingered typing.

  • freeman

    Here is a link to Ron Paul on the income tax: http://www.ronpaul.com/on-the-issues/taxes/

  • robert

    i keep every dime i make pay no pucking taxes and never will
    UNTIL the government stops the fraud and lies of the federal reserve fraud
    millionaires and billionaires in this country DONT give a dam about someone living on 20 thousand a year
    THEY blow that in a night on porn stars booze and gambling
    hookers and blow and crack

    that good crack that the military is protecting in
    the middle east in afgan land

    infowars com
    hey government I DRINK raw milk and make my own dam cheese too
    you self righteous prick s

  • Randy Huffey

    I just heard Obama call out the “Millionaires and Billionaires”. Class warfare with “fair share” being nearly every-other word. Those that did “extraordinarily well”! That is anyone not on the dole! Shared sacrifice = shared poverty and despair.
    This speech also calls for the people to “call them out” (referring to the congress). Watch for the SOROS network of media to really ratchet up the rhetoric for civil unrest, demonstrations, and (possible) riots. What Obama needs to declare Martial Law?

    • eddie47d

      Those millionaires and billionaires have that wealth because our system is rigged to make them wealthy. They stay rich not by hard work but by low tax rates on our investment structures. The Elites have it all set up where they make money off of other peoples money which makes them even more wealthy. Now there is a ponzi scheme few want to talk about. Who set this all up? Why other Elites.Sure it’s fair …too them.

      • Angel Wannabe

        eddie47d, EGADS class envy at its finest. Its alwasy the same thing with you eddie, bash the rich and stick up for the poor, but never any resolve on how to get the poor out of poverty, except taking and then giving it to the poor, with someone else’s money!__How about personal responsibility Buddy??__HOWS ‘BOUT ITS NOT MY JOB TO MAKE YOU A RICH MAN!!!!__Go take the risk in a garage if needs be, and make it yourself and be however rich or poor you wannbe!!!__Maybe then you’ll come up with a different think and mind your own business___Just sayin’…..

        • JeffH

          Surprised Angel Wannabe? NOT! :) You go girl!

          • eddie47d

            Yes Angel and Jeff I’d like to see alittle personal responsibility from more than a handful of the wealthy. We didn’t have the Enron collaspe because they were so honest and full of God given integrity. Wachovia didn’t sink because they had the most brilliant minds. The same with Lehman Brothers and Merrill Lynch. They paid their executives rather handsomely but caused misery for millions. “Class Envy” not in your life! I don’t need their ill gotten gains but maybe you do with all that gloating that spills forth from your mouths.

          • JeffH

            YUP! No doubt it’s “class envy”.

            Class envy is a pejorative term sometimes used to describe criticisms of the rich and powerful by the poor and less powerful. Having the core of a Marxist leads eddie to the belief that class is determined as a social relationship, where the worker creates wealth, and the capitalist is simply a parasite who expropriates surplus value from the workers who work for him. While the capitalist focuses on the issue of wealth, the left-wing worker focuses on the issue of capital, which is created by the worker’s labor and expropriated by the capitalist, and on the issue of capitalist profits.

          • eddie47d

            I see Jeff the master of spin is weaving his devious web!

          • Angel Wannabe

            jeffh, :) :) :) :) today!

        • Dan az

          Angel
          Eddie wants to be Robin Hood Steal from the rich and give to the poor.It makes him feel like he stands for something good and dosen’t realize the damage that he and his merry men do for the poor out of work and never worked class.They believe that everyone should be on equal pay scale.free lunch free coffee free housing and let the rich pay for it.Utopia!!!Sounds good eddie maybe if we all stopped working we could enjoy it too!But wait a minute,Who’s going to pay for all this free crap?If know body worked then who is going to hand out all that free crap.I get it Nobody.Thats it Utopia!!!Thats why my gravatar is a picture of eddiee and friends looking for a clue.Cant wait for the popping sound to find out what next they come up with.Brilliant don’t ya think!

          • Angel Wannabe

            Dan Az, So right Dan!_-The longer you hand feed a wild animal, the more dependant it becomes, and eventually will not forage any longer for food__ so too with people!

          • http://gunner689 gunner689

            Eddie’s a loser with a capital L. If he’d use half his intellegence to make something of his life instead of wallowing in class envy, he might grow up. Unfortunately he is typical of many people in this country; the kind that fell for all that hope and change BS; the same old chicken in every pot, free lunch routine.

          • bob wire

            “Dan az says:
            September 19, 2011 at 12:37 pm

            Angel
            Eddie wants to be Robin Hood Steal from the rich and give to the poor.”

            Hmm, I wonder where the rich got it?

            The “getit” store?

            Question? Why must I be required to insure high enough to pay, say $150,000 for a rich mans car when I drive 13 year old Fords and Chevys?

            Question? Why are my high property taxes paying for a sports arena that I don’t go to, don’t support or watch. While my city cut them a deal and cut their taxes in building. I don’t work there or enjoy any profits yet I pay!

            Question? Big business requires infrastructure. The infrastructure is built with tax dollars. Tax dollars come from citizens. ~ It’s a pay forward situation, A gamble, a investment in the future.

            So why all this worrying about the wealthy. ~ Do you truly believe that they require your help today?

            That comes close to defending GOD. ~ If God is as powerful as is stated, as you seem to believe then why does he need help?

            These practices and thoughts fall make any sense what so ever !

            The wealthy in this nation don’t require your help. They have a staff of lawyers, bookkeepers and investment bankers doing that! and the GOP!

            This “social war” was not started by the working men and women of this nation. It was started in Washington with the aid of bankers, lawyers and number crunchers.

      • john

        boy,you are one sick puppy,an I don’t think a vet can help.

        • eddie47d

          Dan does come up with some whoppers and then thinks he’s brilliant on top of that. I never said anything about an equal pay scale as you did. I said nothing of a free lunch or free housing or making the rich pay for those things. Those are your words but with a lack of wisdom. Those comments(full of lies so there is your liar Jeff) are creepy and convolted.

          • JeffH

            …all this time and you still haven’t figured how to reply to a comment???

            BTW, you still can’t figure it out on your own…what Dan was talking about I mean…comprehend…ya know!

          • eddie47d

            You are also convulted and then some Jeff. Next time you accuse me of lying I believe you can now bring Dan into the conversation. Comprehend?!

          • JeffH

            eddie, a little FYI for ya…I don’t accuse you of lying, I just provide the proof that you are a liar. Start taking some responsibility for your own actions instead of concerning yourself with everyone elses and making excuses.

      • crisscross

        I am not a rich elite, but after working for years, building a business and paying my “fair share” in earned income taxes, I was able to save and invest enough to take advantage of those investment tax structures that are available to all who get serious about personal responsibility rather than whining about what the other guy has. Eddie, you are a broken record playing that same old class envy tune over and over. You throw the baby out with the bath as you attack the majority of well-off Americans who are guilty of none of the things complain about.

  • professor

    This is a great article and it lays out the main problem we have with the “ruling elite,” in Washington, their favored friends, banks, and corporations! Americans labor to support the “ruling elite,” and not just those in this country!

    Our government has been “hijacked” by a lawless foreigner and his gangsters. Our congress has been made irrelevant and we are laboring for a quasi-dictator! The arab muslim has taken control of our money and decides how much is confiscated and where it is to be sent. The dems believe, as he does! The pubs believe, as he does, but are more discreet….”they all believe that we work for them!”

    A Consumption tax might work, but, I doubt that it will ever become reality…it takes away Washington’s power to tax income of individuals and would eliminate their gestapo agency….the IRS. Washington elites will never, voluntarily, give up any power!

    The Federal government should have one job, that of National security..nothing else. Decentralize government! Since this country is now a “conglomerate,” government should be local and States’ Rights should Reign Supreme.
    Local governments are more easily controlled by the people. The politicians are more accessible,and it is not as easy for them to live apart and separate from those they govern. The deeds of local politicians are more apparent and more easily under the scrutiny of the voters. Most importantly, people can vote with their feet, and any State that is unfair will suffer from the loss of revenue. People will go where the environment is friendly and allows them to be prosperous. States that become draconian, will suffer. But, I don’t see our current Washington elites giving up power and giving it to the States. The States would have to force their way out of the clutches of the Feds and that might involve Federal troops.

    It seems the only plausible option may be, “the people,” abandoning Washington (and they would be within their rights to do it) and creating an alternate government….. and local State governments could be a viable solution.

    • TML

      “Our congress has been made irrelevant and we are laboring for a quasi-dictator!”

      This is because one of the biggest problems, the legalized subversion of our Consitution, is Executive Orders.

      • professor

        Correct. The misuse of the “Executive Order” has become the tool of the arab muslim, to make, “a free people into laborers for the state.”

  • robert shrugged

    one of the two things completly needed is for the people or congress to make gold and silver the currency of america and require everything to be paid for with gold and silver. that will cause three things absulutly necessary. congress would not be able to steal from the people because they would have a revolution. the people who live off the largess of the people would be forced to go to work (illegal aliens would by necessity be forced to return to the country of birth) and government would have to live within their means. the people will revolt if the government does not obey the laws of the constitution that they now violate on a daily basis. you can not have your cake and eat it too. we need people to vote for people who really believe in and operate in the constitution. our founding fathers were geniouses and for a hundred or so years we had a great country (slavery excluded). the cival war allowed for the politicians to institute laws that violated the constitution and that is where we are now. we need to return to what our founding fathers founded (excluting slavery) gave to us and we might have a civilized society that will work so long as the people obey and follow our constitution.

  • TML

    “The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first.” – Thomas Jefferson

  • TML

    “A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned – this is the sum of good government.” – Thomas Jefferson

  • Boomp

    WOW! Obama was elected by the masses who expected a “free Lunch” and those hoping for the “Change”. The Professional Polititions believe they “need to take care of us”…reading above “we” are pushing for change however how can one believe that this meager dialog can force this change. Hopefully all of you are verbal to those you know! I agree Sara is a “Long…. shot”. I’m betting the Citizens of Alaska are still thanking her. Kick A## people! Be “Vocal” Drag you friends to the Polls like the Dems did for the “Empty One”

  • Earl, QUEENS, NY

    Don’t you get tired of Democraps who whine about the rich not paying their fair share of taxes?? WAKE UP!! The democraps are demagogues encouraging you to envy and hate anyone who has a dollar more than you. In reality, how does raising taxes on the wealthy, per se, help you?? Even if Uncle Sam/Uncle Scam confiscated all income above $500,000, it would not eliminate the national debt being created by the democraps. And we hear that a large % of Americans pay no income tax at all; many of whom are drones. of course, even drones should face reality. The fact is that we ALL pay for the ridiculously high income tax rates on corporations and job producers (as well as absurd government regulation), in the form of higher consumer prices whether we see it on our Form 1040s or not!!

    Likewise, even the drones and welfare moochers should realize that their government checks are like bread crumbs compared to what they could earn if government would just get out of our way and let free market reign. …. And let’s not forget that many of these demagogues are filthy rich democraps, and some are tax cheats themselves. Thus, if you must envy and hate the rich, then hate the phony rich democraps!! At least Republicans don’t (normally) condemn other people for wanting to be successful.

    And BTW, I’m also tired of hearing this “Robin Hood in Reverse – stealing from the poor to give to the rich” drivel by socialist Democraps. As I often say, it’s one thing to have a safety net to help those who can’t help themselves, or give temporary assistance to those going through hard times beyond their control. But we know that in reality, most wealth redistribution is from producers (at all income levels) to non-producers. Thus, how can they say we’re stealing from drones or welfare moochers something which they never earned in the first place??

  • Joe

    This is not a right-left issue or even liberal vs. conservative. The politicians in Washington are united in one thing: oppression for you and me and everyone else on here. Please note that they passed stimulus and bailouts with unanimous support on both sides. They created a Federal Reserve in 1913 and both parties propagate its legitimacy (even though it is completely illegitimate as the recent audit showed they transferred 16 trillion, yes that is trillion to their banking buddies and corporations). You would have never gotten this information had it not been for Ron Paul. There is only one way out and we all know what that is!

  • OldMan

    For SMSgt Z retired Nam 68:

    From your handle it would suggest that you served our Country in Vietnam. If I assume correctly then THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE !!!!

    Enjoy your retirement !!!

    OldMan

  • Gary

    History is never wrong—The more money taken from its citizens results with liberty and freedoms reduced with every lost dollar.

  • Sidney Smith

    The United States of America has been broke since 1933,so as judgs and lawyers have taken oath of office to up hold the U.S. Constitution and Treaties and the debt of the united States and United States of America as trustees for the United States of America. They will do what it takes to hold the debt (income Tax) of the United States of America barrowed from the Federal Reserve Bank owned by the Queen of England who own’s United States Of America Inc. which means you are still a part of England. However,So who won the War?

  • JeffH

    Here’s a group that should be gaining some momentum by educating the government and the masses about job ceation.

    JOBS CREATORS ALLIANCE… As business leaders, we know what it takes to create jobs. Let us explain how to put America back to work.

    Core Beliefs – The Job Creators Alliance believes that America’s entrepreneurs and innovators are the engines of economic growth and job creation. The path back to prosperity is one in which private sector businesses are empowered to grow and thrive.
    http://jobcreatorsalliance.org/CoreBeliefs.aspx

  • The Wolf

    After reading some of the post I can see we are in deep DODO.the big job killers are EPA, FDA, USDA, OSHA, NLRB, HHS, HUD, DOE, FCC they have got out of hand.we do not elect these clowns they are appointed by the clowns we elect.there powers go way beyond the constitution.they can tell you what you can or can not do on your land.they can say they saw a fart frog on your land and you can not do any thing on your land that might disturb the fart frog.they have not seen one in 200years but they know that there there because they found a fossil.can you not see how insane these groups are.there was a cummunist who said we will bury you from within.and they doing just that today and working over time.

    • Randy Huffey

      Wolf,
      Obama has got his people in place at the heads of these various govt. agencies. Now comes the next phase, the ENFIRCEMENT stage. We are seeing it already with EPA going after innocents. We will see exaggerated “compliance” efforts by all Obama run agencies from here on out. Confiscation of private property will happen with increasing frequency and severity. WEALTH is what Obama is after, as money is just paper with numbers on it. Watch for confiscation of businesses and farms as the huge “fines” cannot be paid. This will be one of the main ways that government seizes (possibly all?) personal property. WATCH! When this happens the property will not be “sold” as such to pay these fines, but will just become “Property of the State”!

  • Buck

    You can label a man or woman president , representative , congressman , senator , judge , or even tax collector , the label is another word for thief if it is money taken from people by force of law or gunpoint .

  • DC

    Wake up folks. The income tax is illegal and unconstitutional, and there are court cases being(quietly) won about this, the participants being very gutsy folks, facing jailtime for their rights.
    And I am sick of hearing the old”give to Ceasar what is Ceasar’s” line for all this. Or someone using a Bible verse for every issue, for that matter.We do not have a Ceasar, or an Emperor,(or do we?!), we are not ancient Rome(though we are going that way), we are a Republic protected by a set of laws and rights.
    The only time the American sheeple will wake up is when they get hungry! And that time may be soon approaching.

    • Jack

      I agree about the tax being illegal, but you need to wake up if you don’t see that right now we do have ruler in place called Obama and the sad part is that we the people are letting the As-hole get away with it !!

  • Delores Smith

    BOB LIVINGSTON,
    An excellent article, but I must disagree with an issue. I intend to vote for Republicans and Independents who are worthy of my vote.There is not a third party that can solve our problem. A third party would only give Obama a win. Obama and Soros are collapsing our economy deliberately, and I intend to stop it. They are EVIL men with an EVIL goal. I would never vote for a Democrat, because of what they did in the 111th Congress. (Kiss up to Obama.) Bob, Senator Kerry and Hillary Clinton lied to the Senate, insisting that the Preamble to the New Start Treaty was not legally binding. Our Senate ratified the New Start Treaty, and it went on to the Duma in Russia where it was ratified. Leaders of Russia were seen on TV, laughing, because they stated that the Preamble is Part of the Treaty. We gave away our Missile Defense System in the Preamble. BOB LIVINGSTON, I WANT TO BUY YOUR BOOK. WILL THIS HELP YOU TO FORGIVE ME FOR DISAGREEING WITH YOU?
    Delores Smith
    Delores109@cox.net

  • hitthedeck

    Class warfare is the first action of a socialist. Money is power and a socialist does everything to reduce that power. Obama has used the socialist handbook from the first day he took office. Socialism is the first step to communism and the young people in out country do not recognize it. Obama has disguised it with social justice and sharing the wealth. It’s the oldest con game going and any one that has common sense can spot it. This means that liberals will never recognize it. This post should put me on Obama’s Attack Watch website. I hope that ninety percent of the voting public joins me!

  • http://www.lawinfour.com Howard R Gray

    How much do you deserve? All of it is the only answer that makes sense.

    Until the government is stripped of its monopoly over our money nothing will change. The legal tender laws need to be amended to permit alternative currencies to trade within the United States based upon real precious metal or other suitable commodity bases. Until our money can exist in a form that retains its value and operates as a universal means of exchange and is free of malign government interference then there is no possibility of control over government spending.

    Government spending can only be controlled where there is a monetary system that imposes an autonomous discipline upon the spendthrift classes.

    The question of how much we deserve is very simple we deserve all of it and as long as we accommodate with those that expropriate us through taxation and inflation we are doomed to being asset stripped by the unscrupulous. Inflation is a stealth tax that always clobbers the poor more than anyone else as they have no power to save or put aside any extra wealth for their future.

    The answer is very simple, sort out legal tender laws and permit value competition in our monetary supply and remove government interference by stripping it of its monopoly to create and manage our money.

  • JeffH

    “To take from one, because it is thought his own industry and that of his fathers has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers, have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association, the guarantee to everyone the free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it.” — Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Joseph Milligan, April 6, 1816

    In 1794, when Congress appropriated $15,000 for relief of French refugees who fled from insurrection in San Domingo to Baltimore and Philadelphia, James Madison stood on the floor of the House to object saying: “I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents.” — James Madison, Annals of Congress 4:179, 1794

    “The moment the idea is admitted into society that property is not as sacred as the laws of God, and that there is not a force of law and public justice to protect it, anarchy and tyranny commence. If ‘Thou shalt not covet’ and ‘Thou shalt not steal’ were not commandments of Heaven, they must be made inviolable precepts in every society before it can be civilized or made free.” — John Adams, A Defense of the Constitutions of Government of the United States of America, 1787

    • john

      EXCELLENT.keep up the good work.

  • robert shrugged

    DC I hope you are right and the sheeple wake up and follow the constitution and throw off the tyrants as our founding fathers urged us to. also the states at the time of the passing of the constitution we had 6 states that had state religions and none of them had to repeal their state religions. the supreme court violated the constitution by enacting a law ( only congress can make laws ) when they said there was a seperation of church and state. the states never repealed their religious status they only did not force their religion on the people in their states.

    • john

      inquiring minds want to know,WHERE IN THE CONSTITUTION DOES IT SAY SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE.don’t quote the first amendment,it doesn’t say that.

      • JeffH

        john, like so many others here I’m just trying to do my part, the right thing. Thanks

  • Moby49

    Good lord Bob, you decry Obama’s low approval rating which is still 20 % higher than Bush’s. And I see they want to drag out Mises totally discredited economic theories. Reading this column it isn’t hard to see why the country is nearing collapse. The greed is palpable.

  • Larry Shepherd

    The elitist’s will have a rude awaking soon for to continue to steal from the workers of America by the Unions, and the Government will result in revolution by vote or other means.

    • eddie47d

      Unions are not stealing from anyone. They receive a fair wage negotiated with management fair and square. I won’t get into who is really doing the stealing this time for I have mentioned it before.

      • http://gunner689 gunner689

        Let’s not forget the Union Motto: ” More Pay for Less Work “

      • crisscross

        Yeah, bought and paid for legislators and oppressive anti-free market NRLB policies…the union version of “fair and square.”

  • http://msn.com WoundedKnee

    I heard That One…and Agree ” This Country is Nearing Collapsing “.

  • JeffH

    Orly Taitz: Update on Hawaii Cases and Her Upcoming Visit to Washington, DC

    “WE HAVE CLEAR EVIDENCE OF TREASON COMMITTED” – Hawaii Department of Health Director Loretta Fuddy had been under subpoena from the U.S. District Court in Honolulu to make available for inspection the original birth record of Barack Hussein Obama by August 8, 2011.

    Taitz and two document examiners flew to Honolulu in advance of the August 8 deadline to inspect the birth record. However, Fuddy did not appear, and instead, a letter was presented to Taitz explaining that Obama’s original birth record could not be produced for inspection due to “privacy concerns.” Taitz has stated that Fuddy “broke federal law” by refusing to produce the records under subpoena.

    “They’re claiming privacy, and I provided information questioning ‘what privacy,’ as Obama has posted this document on whitehouse.gov, but he also posted it on mugs and T-shirts that are being sold by the Democratic National Committee. The man is a criminal. He’s using a forged document, and he’s bragging with the forgery; he is flaunting this forgery in front of the whole nation. It’s shocking that our federal judges, our congressmen and senators are allowing this to go on. This is criminal. There is no privacy; it was specifically made public. The interest of the country not to have a criminal in the White House supersedes all notion of privacy which was waived a long time ago.” Obama’s campaign website is also selling the merchandise.

    http://www.thepostemail.com/2011/09/18/orly-taitz-update-on-hawaii-cases-and-her-upcoming-visit-to-washington-dc/

    • OB1

      Thanks JeffH. Was getting discouraged and tired. You are gifted.

  • http://Yahoo MJ

    AMEN to that!!!!

  • john

    and poor ol rick santorum says show proof.that’s hard to do when he keeps his eyes closed.

  • 45caliber

    Texas does not have a state income tax – but most of the state politicians want one.

    Some years ago, a citizen wrote the Comptroller, Brown, to say that he was against a state income tax.

    Brown replied, “I realize that there are uninformed people out there who are against a state income tax. But you have to realize that there is this vast untapped source of money out there that no one is using that we could use to build up this state …”

    In other words, you do not use your income. Or if you do, you waste it. The government needs it!

  • 45caliber

    This article explains why Oblama and friends (in both parties) are not seriously worried about the debt. After all, they are taking only part of the overall income of the US. It all belongs to them so why should they worry until they get close to the maximum? The fact that we need to live on our income is simply not important.

  • robert shrugged

    Jeff you know the truth when you see it and attribute it to those who said it, you honor them and illuminate a truth when you put it out for all to see and understand and those who still will not adhere and carry foward the trurh are part of the reason we have the disaster that we have today.

  • Downs1

    The big debate: Christians believe that everything ultimately belongs to God. Their money is His and they are stewards of whatever He allows them to have. On the other hand, the government believes that everything is ultimately theirs and they allow us to keep whatever they deem appropriate. The difference . . . only God gives eternal redemption. The government keeps its people in bondage. The government arrogantly believes it holds absolute power, but actually it holds nothing God doesn’t allow it to hold. In the end, government will answer to God . . . and it won’t be pretty! The Bible talks about taxes. You ought to read it sometime. It’s an eyeopener!

  • Alex

    Conservatives want to live in a country club without paying dues.

    • bob wire

      You would almost think they don’t need roads, running water or electricity the way they talk sometimes. Carrying on about taxes and “their burden” like maybe progressives don’t pay them.

      It’s like democrats are all in jail and make up the bulk of the un and under employed and welfare roles. What little truth might be there is embellished to a point of absurdity as they behave like a rabbi dog biting and growling at everything that comes close.

      Anger is a form of insanity. Anger needs to be controlled to ever expect a positive outcome.

      I could make wild claim about “conservative” that have enough truth in them to make them valid. But to what end? Who does it serve?

  • Angel Wannabe

    In response to Daveh, Karolyn and Coal Miner, I’m always amazed by Liberal or atheists inability to accept anything but they’re own beliefs. Yet they say they want justice & liberty for all., Justice and Liberty for all_ as long as the religious keep quiet about they’re beliefs that is. That’s not free speech, your playing the liberal game of political correctness, of which I don’t play__ years ago I’ve come to this conclusion about debate. Debate is a mixture of facts and opinions__and the nearer to the truth you get, more the opposition strikes, that kind of reaction to me means_ the person being attacked, might be onto something_or_ your afraid someone else might believe them?!!_ Have a great night you three, its only fun for a little while_gotta make supper!

    • DaveH

      You started it Angel, with your very intolerant statement. So don’t flatter yourself.

      • Angel Wannabe

        Daveh, the second strike counts Dave, you never had to respond to my post. What I said, wasn’t in response to you, or directed at you, it was my opinion in a general statement. If you took it personally, that problem lies with you, not me.
        NOW, I would suspect being an atheist, that any inclusion of ANY religion in a debate with you, is going to bother you. You’ll take offense to it no matter how its presented __That’s fine__but I’m not going to stop including God in my speak, just because you don’t like it either. The PC crowd doesn’t jive with my think.__In the future, If you don’t like what I have to say then ignore it!_Besides for this reason_ is the reason I usually don’t post to you, I’d rather stick with like minded folks.___Have a Great Night!

        • DaveH

          Nor will I quit responding when you issue intolerant statements in the name of God. I suspect if he did exist that he wouldn’t be too happy with you using his name in vain.
          Speak for yourself. Quit blaming God.

          • Angel Wannabe

            Daveh__ for someone who doesn’t believe in God, you seem to take pride in telling others how to be a Christian?__Thats almost like a Woman who has never had, nor raised any children, trying to win the Mother of the year award??!!_

            -In your mind you’ve won DaveH, I win in mine. God exists in my world and will say so, if he doesn’t in yours, that’s either your problem or delight!__Whateva floats your bloat Mac!___night!

          • DaveH

            By the way, Ignoramus, I was indoctrinated for 10 years in private Catholic schools. Yes, I know religion. Probably better than you do.

          • bob wire

            and I was heavy exposed 14 years and I’m siding with Dave on this matter.

            Me, DaveH, God see no need to defend ourselves.

            If you are finding some need to “defend” ~ ask yourself “why?”

            It’s not necessary that Dave and I believe alike.

            I believe in a force of nature from which all things come, ~ call it want you wish. But I don’t call it human. It has no ego, it is not vengeful or jealous as biblical text implies. These things are of man and not of the creator.

            The creator is not a sexist, biblical text is consumed with sexist statements , all introduced by man as man attempts to make his God human for his convenience of understanding. Woman is no less then Man on any level you might look.

            But I’m not going to argue with you about such things. You are at liberty to understand such matters anyway you wish and I’m sure Dave would agree.

            What train you took has little to do with the final destination. Just get there.

        • AnhydrousBob

          Angel, you disappoint me. It is very arrogant to claim to speak for all Christians – and though you will protest that you never claimed that, a review of your comments will reveal that you certainly must think so.

          I have heard DaveH be very gracious in defending a Christian’s right to his belief. I have heard him be very tolerant, too. Are Christians not to judge themselves so they wont be judged?

          Why is it that so many Christians want to play the US vs THEM game – you know it was Augustine that said that thing about, “except for the grace of God, there go I”. For isn’t faith a matter of Faith?

          Jefferson’s words, to question even the existence of a God, fits in well with the words in the old testament to “prove me now”. For God must certainly expect us to use the faculties he has given us to reason out how we shall believe?

          Why have Christians given the government (a construct of men) power over their very moral lives? Why should marriage be in any way a domain of the state? Haven’t you ever wondered why we must get permission from the State to have a covenant with God? Isn’t that blasphemous? Doesn’t God warn us not to mix the Holy and profane?

          Morality is the Christian’s duty and right – and it is not within his or her authority to grant what God has given to each person (free moral agency) to transfer to a government.

          Maybe one day those who claim to be Christians will be worthy of the Title. Now, if you think I’m an atheist you may be quite angry at that statement, but if your pastor had said it from the pulpit, you would have pondered it thoughtfully. Yet, it is a true statement, no matter who said it. Truth is Truth.

          • bob wire

            She’s a walking contradiction AmhydrousBob. And “consistent” Even her screen name implies it.

          • Angel Wannabe

            Ab, Makes no difference to me if like what I say or how I say it. My defending the Constsitution & the Declaration is just that, there is plenty of mentioning “the year of our Lord”, “The Creator”, and reference to “Divine Providence”___Wher I get pissed off at, is people constantlys saying God was not a part of our Founding, when we know he was!____Now, In reference to Daveh, I’m not standing down to those that think I’m wrong for defending my Christianity. I was plenty nice to him intil he started!__ If atheists take my stance as an personal attack, it is theirs to deal with. I’m not going to be quiet, just because it offends some people, as it stands I’m offended, with people who insist that there is “no higher power than themselves”__ thats egos talking!!!!!

            “Bob Wire a Walking Contradiction?__Hardly, most know where I stand, your just ticked off, cuz ya can’t shake me, in me in my beliefs and convictions!

            BTW BOB___No one hardly knows what the hell your talking about half the time, its almost as if you smoked a bowl and then tried to talk rationally without being paranoid__Look in the Mirror!__and again with my name angel-wannabe???__whats your problem with it?__sounds like intrigue!__NO-ONE has to like what I say or how I say it__don’t like it ignore me!

  • COLLEEN

    My son-in-law, told me in a conversation from a friend, that the Russia was going to take over America, was not by war, but by getting officials in Washington elected whom would bring us into socialism. Our president is sadly on that tract with many others who are following him. Those we are electing today are trying to take away our freedoms. If we don’t wake up and see where it really is coming from.

    • eddie47d

      Russia is too overwhelmed with corruption scandals and a weak economy to be of any immediate threat to us. More Red Scare?

      • http://gunner689 gunner689

        ever hear of the Peoples Republic of China. Every Chinese good you buy helps build the bomb or bullet that may kill your children some day.

      • Sam

        “Communism is dead” is akin to “the devil doesn’t exist.” If you want to learn what labor unions are all about, read “School of Darkness” by Bella Dodd.

        The political climate of the United States is now agreeable enough for Mikhail Gorbachev, a “convinced Communist” (his words) and founder of Green Cross International, to make his home here (San Francisco). Sergei Khrushchev, son of former Soviet Premier Nikita Khrushchev, also now resides in the United States where he is a Senior Fellow at the Watson Institute for International Studies at Brown University in Providence, Rhode Island.

  • Scott D

    Here is a unique idea and I do not think it will hurt the populus any more than we are being attacked at the current time, being not being served by our government. when election time comes around if your incumbent is a republican-vote in a democrat and vice versus if they are a democrat-vote in a rebublican. Afterall this country is on the road to meaningless-send a message to the political elite-NO MORE. Buy a gun and see you in Concord.

  • Scott D

    Quite simply put there are no more Mr. Smiths in Washington. That was an American dream that never really existed.

  • Scott D

    Question–does anybody know the unemployment rate in the District of Columbia and the surrounding counties?

    • JeffH

      In D.C., August unemployment jumped to 11.1 percent, one of the highest rates in the nation.
      http://www.bizjournals.com/washington/news/2011/09/16/unemployment-up-in-dc-md-and-va.html

      • Karolyn

        Did you know that there is a Washingtonian push for statehood because they do not have representation in congress?

        • 45caliber

          Karolyn:

          They do have a representative in Congress. He is a non-voting member but he can start bills, etc. The reason that Washington has always NOT been a state is that there is a belief that Congress would spend a lot of money on it, taken from other states, to make it a show place for their homes.

      • Scott D

        Thank you Jeff-appreciate that info. I realize D.C. always is high. I was actually looking at the counties.

  • FreedomFighter

    Trillion

    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Trillion may mean:

    Either of the two numbers (see long and short scales for more detail):
    • 1,000,000,000,000 (one million million; 1012; SI prefix: tera-) for all short scale countries

    Obama has spent a trillion dollars on job stimulus already, now another half trillion more he wants or approx 1.5 trillion dollars.

    Thats one million million plus half again more…hmm

    I could get 5% interest on 1.5 trillion. Now I know that my math stinks but…

    If one trillion is a million million, I could give a million million people 50,000 dollars a year at 5% interest and keep the money.

    Now im nobody, Obama is so brilliant, what did we get for the trillion?

    Laus Deo
    Semper Fi

  • Mad Max

    You should be able to keep it all, but we have to wake up first.

    FIGHT THE CAUSE – NOT THE SYMPTOM
    Read “Common Sense 3.1” at ( http://www.revolution2.osixs.org )

    Free people shouldn’t act or live like slaves. Until then, they we take everything we allow them to. S

  • Alfie

    The federal executive branch, the senate, some of this house, and some of the judicial branch … want ALL of our money. They will keep what they want, and then dispense what little they think we need. There is only one word for this: ‘communism.’ Communists have been inside our government since Roosevelt, slowly making inroads with each passing decade – increasing their number, the size and scope of government. Read and learn from a well-researched book named ‘None Dare Call It Treason,’ by John A. Stormer, Liberty Bell Press, 1964. [and a later book: NDCI - 25 Years Later"] To prevent electing the wrong person in 2012, look for candidates who talk about and actually commit to slashing the size of federal government.

  • http://ahalbert@smart-technology.net Allan

    Maybe the quickest way to end the communist threat in America is for everyone to stop producing and find a way to tough it out for a year. Government would have to shrink. Liberals would have to find something useful to do. We would take back some control. Just a thought.

  • Mike

    I think keeping 75% of your money and 25% of your money going to taxes would be fair if they abolished all other taxes and it was the same rate regardless of income. The only way I would approve of that is if all other hidden taxes (regardless if they are city, county, state or federal) were eliminated though.
    The only other tax I would approve of would be an import tariff (tax) and I would prefer it being so ridiculously high that no one could afford foreign goods.

  • Doc J

    The article is right on but there is more at foot than just arrogant politicians. I don’t see anyone in the government/politics that talks about smaller federal government and constitutional rule. The answer is stop the spending and tax fairly and evenly to all, rich and poor. We can rule ourselves but only if we get back to the basics and our creator. Politicians are like babies diapers. When they get full of ****, it’s time for a change.

  • jopa

    Colleen: Perhaps your son in law meant Israel was going to take over America by getting their cronies elected.They are off to a very scary start.AIPAC speaks and the politicians listen.Even Bush and Cheney tried to somewhat ignore Israel and things became a little uncomfortable for them and they gave in also.

  • Raggs

    Watch out folks, Barrackula is running out of blood money.

  • AJ

    Ya Jan Schakowsky (D-Ill) “What about the people that work at the National Institute of Health who are looking for a cure for cancer? Ya think they want to find one? Hell no that wouldn’t be profitable. And also if they did find a cure (which by the way they have many times)would they be out of work? Or put in jail like the doctors who behind the scenes are curing Cancer? You big F’ing wind bag Jan Schakowsky!

  • Sam

    The state is saying to its citizens: “Your earnings are not exclusively your own; we have a claim on them, and our claim precedes yours; we will allow you to keep some of it, because we recognize your need, not your right; but whatever we grant you for yourself is for us to decide.” Moreover, “the amount of your earnings that you may retain for yourself is determined by the needs of government, and you have nothing to say about it.” — Frank Chodorov, The Income Tax: Root of All Evil (p. 11)

  • http://WWW.FACEBOOK LINDA MILES

    U TALKING ABOUT MY MONEY……….TO KEEP THE GOVERNMENT IN HIGH LIVING…………THEN NONE, TO SUPPORT OUR TROOPS,

  • Bernie

    I agree the “rich” should pay their “fair” share…….so my question is when do they get their deserved reduction from their job killing tax rates, as right now they (Being mostly small businesses) pay the lion’s share of the tax revenues!!!!

  • WHOSEZ

    Sure glad you got off the religion discussion (argument). I am a believing Christian. Do not like to hear others badmouthing anyone because of their beliefs, no matter what they are. Freedom of religion must mean free to decide if or what we believe. Lets be civil. Was not the original topic taxes/money/greed re:government. Which has definitely gone mad in this USA we all love. Q: what can we do about it???

    • bob wire

      Hmm? What can we do about? ~ Well? stop watching television is a good start. `It panders to the lazy and you can’t watch it without being exposed to some attempt at “programing”,it’s unhealthy for body and mind.

      I’ve already bought enough Viagra I don’t have enough loose skin to close my eyes!

      I’ve insured everything I own and might hope to have, I got my “clapper” to turn the lights on , my Ginzo knife set along with Pat Boone’s hottest hits and my reverse mortgage.

      The Democrats are waging class warfare, the Republicans are blinking their eye’s and acting in-sensed to the charge.

      Dick Perry is just “marvelous” ~ Obama is a clown.

      I feel better since I unplugged the damn thang!

      Read, people or just back off and take a breath. A change of season is in the air! It Smells wonderful! Finally, my first day to open the windows

  • Jimbo

    The question is not “How much do you think I deserve to keep?” It’s how much of MY money can the government have!

    The politicians love to complain about the ever widening gap between rich and poor, but it’s THEIR POLICIES which widen the gap. The Fed has for decades had the goal of creating slow, steady inflation. They THINK this will “grow the economy”. The rich (who own the businesses that hire us) respond to the inflation by boosting their own salaries. And the rest of us have to then fight for a payraise. Most don’t get one. THAT is what causes the gap between rich and poor to widen.

    Imagine how it would be if the money you worked so hard for the past 20 years,was actually worth what it was when you earned it? You scrimped and saved for a rainy day (a future house, car, boat, vacation, college degree, etc.), but now it’s only worth 1/2 a house, car, boat, etc.

    By printing so much money the fed is destroying YOUR wealth. They are destroying your savings. They are destroying your future. They are handing the money they print to people who have not earned it.

    Why aren’t people upset about this?!

  • jopa

    Michelle Bachman was asked this question as to how much she should keep out of every dollar she earned and she responded all of it.For starters her salary is paid by taxes, her husbands pray away the gay clinic is funded by tax dollars and her farm subsidies are paid with tax dollars.If taxes were not collected she would be trying to get on welfare but there wouldn’t be any if there were no taxes.She is just so precious and among the smarter ones that were on the debate stage.Her being an actual candidate is scary.

  • Tim Taylor

    Michelle Bachmann is a tax attorney, so I would think of another, more likely scenario if you want to vilify her and he husband. Both of them have advanced degrees so… As far as the monetary policy issues go, the feds would take as much as we will let them until we revolt. That is the reality. During the Carter years, 70% was the max tax rate. That made the rich indentured servants. Congress has carte blanche to do whatever they like to us, and we indentured through debt based money. A newborn child owes nearly 50GRAND to the GOVERNMENT the day it is born, and that amount is climbing. The only way you can escape, is to avoid being fooled into thinking you are free at all. We are OWNED, and there isn’t a damned thing any of us can do about it. There are none so enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Think about it. We pay federal income tax. Social Security Tax, Capitol Gains taxes, AMT taxes if the government thinks we haven’t paid enough, in addition to luxury taxes, gas guzzler taxes, taxes on Guns, LIquor, and Tobacco, just to name a few, then when the feds are done with us…the State and Local’s get to pick us over for state income taxes, sales taxes, property taxes(meaning you do not own your land-you RENT IT!) cable taxes, water and garbage taxes, telephone taxes, and list goes on and on. This monster is out of control, and like Rome, we are in mid fall, and are too foolish to stop it before it is too late. It can never happen to us. We are the Mighty Roman Empire…it can never happen to us, we are the mighty British Empire…it can never happen to us…we are the mighty mongolian empire….sound familiar…there is no such thing as a permanent governmental structure. Ours is long past it’s due date. I love our country, but I fear our government.

  • jopa

    Tim Taylor:In her last job she worked for the IRS that paid her salary with our tax dollars.Are you trying to blow a little smoke and cover up the facts.It really doesn’t matter though for she doesn’t stand a chance of winning anything other than in Iowa.We all love our country but I use my mind for solutions and not fear.The words conservative and fear do go together so well though.Even this blog is scaring the crap out of it’s readers.Run run here comes some space junk!!

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