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Healthcare battle continues

July 28, 2009 by  

Healthcare battle continues The fight over healthcare reform has intensified as one organization is planning a webcast warning of government takeover of the health system, while a newly published report has found lawmakers who oppose the reform have received the highest industry donations.

The FRC Action, the legislative lobbying arm of Family Research Council, is hosting a special webcast on Tuesday morning to mobilize opposition to what it sees as the government’s effort to take over the healthcare system.

The panel, which will include congressional leaders as well as FRC Action President Tony Perkins, will analyze the moral, ethical and financial aspects of the proposed reform.

"The takeover will suffocate small business owners with incalculable new taxes [and] it would mandate taxpayer-funded abortion, abortifacient drugs and limit end-of-life care," Perkins complained.

"From the inevitability of rationed care to diminishing human dignity, the president’s plan amounts to a prescription for a health care disaster," he added.

Meanwhile, Public Campaign Action Fund (PCAF), a nonprofit organization which advocates campaign finance reform and holding elected officials accountable, has published results of its analysis of campaign contributions to members of key congressional committees handling health reform legislation.

It found that members of three committees who voted against reform have received significantly more in campaign contributions from the health and insurance industries than those who voted for reform.

"The blocs of lawmakers on both the House Energy and Commerce and Senate Finance Committees who are slowing the pace and scope of reform are also huge recipients of health and insurance money," says David Donnelly, national campaigns director of PCAF.
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  • s c

    If anyone thinks their congressional representatives are looking out for them, kindly peruse page 425 of b o’s health care reform travesty. This insanity opens the door for voluntary euthanasia (to make b o ‘happy,’ no doubt). This is eugenics, folks. Is this the CHANGE you wanted? With this scheme, you talk to your quack once every 5 years, and tell that ‘MD’ if you’re interested in suicide.
    I F I knew that EVERY slimy, traitorous loser in Congress had to go for the same ‘counseling’ MONTHLY, maybe I could live with it. However, I know they’d never do it. People, this is an administration from straight from hell. Can you feel the LOVE? Choose, America. It’s up to you.

    • Terry

      CHANGE??? HEALTHCARE REFORM BILL FOR DISASTER!

      In the end you and businesses are paying for poor quality healthcare, and you will be placed a long waiting list — not to mention someone will review to decide if you can have surgery. BTW, don’t forget if your government has ENOUGH BUDGET for DOCTORS or GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES to even review your case or even know what they are reviewing.

    • Valverde

      Yeah, you can just feeeeel the love when they all hold hands and sing Kum Bye Yah. Barackyev Obamavich loves everyone so much he want to kill them. Especially the ones who disagree with him. Don’t believe me? Look it up. Page 425 in the House Bill. If they put a couple of clauses in there about euthanizing the real killers (Pelosivich, Reedavich, Boxervich, et. al, then it would at least be headed in the right direction. With this bill, if some bureaucrat, somewhere, thinks you will cost society more than he/she thinks you are worth, it’s curtains. Just as though you were some baby that Obamavich thinks doesn’t belong in this world. I wonder how many black people have thought about this. I can guarantee that just because Obamavich calls himself black, it doesn’t mean squat whether some other black person will get off without being killed. Think about it, folks.

      • debra

        Yeah….its pay back time for old white people. He has clearly made his feelings known about white people. My 83 yr old mother worked her whole life and payed her dues...Ill be damned if someone like Obama is going to deny her care because he thinks some black dude who has lived off the system has more value ….How the hell have we allowed this to happen to this country? And what are we going to do about?

        • Mary

          I propose we get a NATIONWIDE strike going on. One week, the week our so called representatives come back (or the week after the 9/12 march on DC which I will be at). Yes, I’m one of those crazy tea party nuts. The problem is that those in “charge” believe that the “voter” is more important then the “taxpayer” because the “voter” puts them in office, and the taxpayer just works hard, keeps their mouths shut, and gets it in the shorts. Well, the time is NOW to make them see the error of their ways. The “voter” who puts liberals in power, of either party, are those on public assistance. The liberals get more powerful by keeping people 100% dependent on the “government”. The higher the unemployment numbers get, the more power the liberals see themselves as having. They want a welfare state! They want to be our “parents” telling us we MUST wear helmets, and seatbelts, and what schools our kids HAVE TO go to, even if it’s not the closest, etc, and weak minded liberals have no problem being told what to do, as long as they are “being taken care of”. I believe we have to NOW, before it’s too late, make them understand that the welfare voters, the dead voters, the “acorn” voters, are not the ones paying their salaries, they need to feel the pain. I propose all of us that still have jobs, from minimum wage to the “rich” IE our employers, close down EVERY business in our country for a week. It would require that EVERY ONE MUST do it. We need to shut down airports, trucking, busses, hotels, shops, supermarkets, EVERYTHING! Hospitals police & firestations would be the exception, but we would have to work for the week without pay! Our servicemen & women are risking their lives to keep us free, by keeping most of those who want us all dead, busy in their own countries, the least we can do is tighten our belts and take a week without pay to keep our republic alive for them to come home to. Imagine the injustice if they risked their lives, & come home physically & mentally broken, to a “socialist state”, where working hard just gets you screwed more, because you now have more, so you SHOULD have to give to those who just don’t want to work as hard . Our representatives need to get hit between the eyes with the fact that if we chose to stop working, they also get NO paycheck, because there will be NO SALARIES to tax. Then, when we get them to put the brakes on and slow things down and deliberate on what they are doing, we form a nationwide Constitutional convention, compromised of citizens in all states getting together with the Constitution in hand, and take back the powers from the feds, that they have usurped from the states. Give those powers back to the states, and update ONLY those parts that are affected by changes in technology that our founding fathers could not have possibly anticipated. I am sick & tired of getting CRAP in my e-mail inbox from my provider that they think I may want to see, based on sites I go to or places I get requested e-mails from. Our founders never imagined our government opening our mail yet our government believes they have that right. Now, I have no problem if the person is NOT an AMERICAN citizen, especially since 9/11, because one of the things our govt IS expected to do is keep us safe from all threats, foreign & domestic. There is a Saudi school in Virginia, that is looking to expand, and they do teach anti-American sentiments, and since 9/11 this should be treason, but they can’t be taking care of monitoring them because they are too busy taking over the private sector. I say next November lets send ALL that are up for election back to the “private sector”. ALWAYS REMEMBER when people say “the government can pay for” that WE ARE THE GOVERNMENT! They work for US!!! WE pay the bills including THEIR SALARIES! We need to be heard, or take our country back by cutting off their checkbook.

    • debra

      Sc where can I find the bill? Do you have a web site? Thanks

  • Donna

    This government should get out of all people’s choices. The programs that they are involved in, stink. Education (35% dropout rate in the city I live in), Social Security (A drain on the deficit in a few years), Medicare and Medicaid (run a deficit in the billions every year), Acorn, etc…
    How about getting the corruption and fraud out of these programs first. Then talk about taking on another one.
    Off on a tangent, about actually reading the bill. How about, on maybe page 637, a one sentence addition. “I, as a member of Congress, officially resign.” (With a checkbox (Y/N)). Those who didn’t mark the checkbox, resigned. I bet they’d read the bills after that, and we could get rid of the non-readers.

    • s c

      Exactly! Our elected rejects must read and understand ALL bills before they dare to pass them. At the same time, don’t look for things to change. For those who can’t see who the chief health care culprit is, there are 3 things to remember. 1) incompetent
      government is the main source of our problems. 2) incompetent
      government is the main source of our problems. 3) incompetent government is the main source of our problems. FYI, it was that motormouth, Massachusetts boob who gave America the HMO plan that HE dislikes so much. So much for libs and their ‘loving, divine concern’ for health care ‘reform.’

      • Brian Rawls

        The government is our only problem.

        • http://www.bradleywarren.net Anonymous

          No need to woorry because every day in every way its gettin beta and beta
          There has been a party goin on for a very long time
          We have only to enjoy the party and get to know the organizers better so we can ALL enjoy the show
          We have now sentience
          not a sentence
          love and fun
          B

        • Brian Rawls

          o

  • http://randysright.wordpress.com/ Randy Dye

    Presidents Obama’s Town Hall Meeting in Raleigh video yesterday, what the media didn’t show you

    http://randysright.wordpress.com/2009/07/29/photosvideo-obama-town-hall-meeting-protestors-in-raliegh/

  • Roger Collins

    The most positive way to get congress to think more about what they sign is to eliminate all exclusions for them and their families. Redo the Medicare and Medicaid Programs back to how they were originally defined, not the add ons used to buy votes. Same with Social Security. Eliminate the corruption now. I recently saw that one sting operation reflected $32B scams on Medicaid. Get real tort reform. Don’t apply the various aspects of health care to illegals, 9-15 million depending on who is counting. We are on a slippery slope and will not recover if our system is destroyed.

  • http://GaryMoore Mark Moore

    I think the American People would go with healthcare reform, ONLY if the HOUSE OF Representatives & CONGRESS AND the PRESIDENT OF UNITED STATES has the same heath plan. !! What is good for the goose I have always heard it is good for the GANDER. IF the healthcare is not good enough for the PRESIDENT of the united States and its Family then why should the American People accept this type of Healthcare. I think its time for CONGRESS to WAKE UP and start doing what is right, they are suppose to represent the People. NOT the PEOPLE working for Government. WE THE PEOPLE ARE THE GOVERNMENT BY THE CONSTITUTION OF USA. The elected officials is suppose to represent the people and stand behind the Constitution. Why should the Government have their own SS retirement plan and different Heath care program than the American people, and we the people are paying for it ??

  • W REED

    A capitalistic society is “profit oriented”, if the financial powers cannot see how to profit from a venture or public service, then they are not interested in such and will oftern resist such venture or service. When programs are devised to ” reduce costs” it frightens the capitalists who then inject fears, lies and deceits into those who do not understand.

    There are flaws in all of our Social institutions, Education, Political, and particularly the Financial institutions. Who actually run’s this country? It’s not the President, he’s just someone to point the blame. The Financial Instituions and “greed” are the controlling factors in this capitalistic society.
    I have no problem with Health care, nor in helping those who have not and sure it will cost, but so does everything esle in this society. We pay for everything, nothing is free, except sunshine, and there way to market and sell it, rest assured that we would be paying for it.

    Wake up people and ask yourself, who’s really running this country? It’s certainly not the Government.

    • Valverde

      Why are you so anti-business? No business, no profits, no paychecks, no food. It’s really that simple. If you think the government is not running this country, just look what the government just did to GM and Chrysler. What did the people who actually loaned these businesses the money to remain in business for years get from the government bailout? Ten cents on the dollar. Who got the 90%, the jerks who started running the company after the people who loaned the money got the shaft and the unions, who were a big part of the reason the companies went broke in the first place. Now, who’s running this country? The government!

    • baydog

      What bothers me is the ” change ” proposed, is nothing more than a re-write of the medical policies of Nazi Germany 1935-1938. Old?, infirm?, no longer productive for the collective?, in an asylum?, up the chimney with the Jews.
      To those of us who remember VE, and VJ, we don’t do train rides, and we don’t take group showers. Don’t force us into a corner!!

      • debra

        No longer productive?? what about that 40% of the population that does not work, has never worked, and has no plans to work..you know who Im talking about ..some of Obamas relatives..They live off welfare, their momma lived off welfare,and granny too. Even the boys that get all these women pregnant live off of the system too. From their welfare momma,to the girls impregnated, and in multis, thats where the term “where u stay at” come from. What ever dumb ho that will let him stay and eat food stamp food…on and on. The problem is all the white people who work,pay taxes for these parasites will die off and what will happen to those poor people when they run out of white folks tax money?

  • Shawn Waters

    After all that has happened to this once Great Nation in the past 20 years, well it goes back to Jimmy Carter, the trade with China, then tes spending that Bush started & now the Hyper Spending that OBAMA & the DemocRATS are doing. If this health care passes in any fourm it will be a death sentence to me, millions of others, and mostly to our ONCE GREAT NATION!

    • Brian Rawls

      Thats right amigo. Your going to let the elected officials kill you. They are just doing it in away that they cant get into any trouble for. Its all legal, legal murder. People are so close minded that they will not let themselves believe that is realy what is going on. Now it is about to be too late for you Shawn, how do you feel about that?

  • Abbe Garcia

    If this health care passes it will be the death of my husband. AND WITHOUT HIM I WILL BE NOTHING! But not only that it will be the death of millions and our nation!

    • Brian Rawls

      Sorry Abbe, It will be for a good cause. Everyone has health care. What are you going to say to that? Im curious to know how will you feel about our government at that point? What are you willing to do about it? How far will you go?

  • Brian Rawls

    All of these bastards need to be shot! Tea parties havent done shit for anyone have they? We must ask ourselves now one question. Do you want to be a slave? Because all hope is evaporating at a steady pace. What comes next? What are we all willing to do about it? How far are we willing to go? Everything is lost. You are all about to become slaves to the government and there is nothing anyone is willing to do about it.

  • Brian Rawls

    What are you going to say when the doctors tell you that your family member costs to much money. When they say they must be put to sleep like a animal. Are you going to say ( well at least it was for a good cause) everyone has health care now.

  • Brian Rawls

    I can say a bunch of people will freak when that starts to take place. Some people might just go on a shooting spree. Yep, that sounds about right. You know distant bomb going off in a crowded plaza. Is this Israel? Oh no I forgot this is America.

    • debra

      Where are those crazy white people anyway? You know the ones who always talked a good game? Where have they gone to hide?

      • Brian Rawls

        Debra, calm down. The point of no return will be reached with people at some point real soon. Then we can get this mess fixed.

        • debra

          i know Brian…Im going to give myself a heart attack!! I just see what is happening to our country and cant believe what is being done and allowed to happen…are we now so afraid to stand up and demand our rights? Have we become so afraid ..like Russia or Iran..hell even the Iranians are standing up and out in the street…what do we do?? Did you find a web site for me to read the health care bill? I am a RN and hope I will be able to understand what is in it. Plz..waiting to hear back from you with web site. In the mean time I think i will go have a big drink..oh.thats right I dont drink!! I`ll do a xanax…..oh God..

        • Brian Rawls

          One for the patient and one for the doc. lol! Lets just say you should know its bad without reading it. Everything this group of idiots has passed has been terrible. I feel the the same way you do, but I think I would just have the drink.lol

        • Brian Rawls
        • debra

          There is something that I want to say to everyone reading….NO ONE and I mean no one goes without care. If it is truely needed. But let me tell you about some of the abuses that go on that cost this country billions. This happens every night in every ER in the country….Towards the end of the month when people run low on money,because they spent it on alcohol or drugs,sold the food stamps..what ever the reason..they call EMS..come into the ER complaining of chest pain or wharever…then demand a cheesburger.a soda, a warm blanket, and turn out the lights on your way out “bitch” and don`t wake me up anymore..No wonder there is a nursing shortage! Not to mention the gunshots stabbings,drunk driving..on and on..

        • Brian Rawls

          No No No, Im not in the field. I have kin that is.

      • Brian Rawls

        We will eventually get things back on track at some point. They are running out of things to blame on Bush.

      • Brian Rawls

        I know all about this stuff Debra. I see it all the time in the Houston area.Our emergency rooms are flooded with illegals all the time. But if someone is a legal citizen they will have to wait for a long time. I again think that maybe you might want to calm down. lol! Maybe you need a vacation or a different career. It sounds like you dislike your job just a little.

        • debra

          No really Brian …I love being an RN…you have to take the good with the bad. And usually once we(me& the pt) get things straight ..like we can do this the hard way or the easy way we end up working things out. I love being able to help the people who need me,calm their fears..well you know what Im talking about if you are also in the field. Its frustrating to waste my education and my lovely, and pleasant personality. OK..LOL…

  • veronique

    this is it !!!!! if the Health care bill pass we are so SCREW , Goverment controling of everything’s .
    I was not born in this country but as gorwing up in the third world country the goverment run the health care , and let me tell you AMERICA you do not want that NO..NO.. youhave to wait in line for 6-7 hours and maybe , maybe if you are lucky for those people in front of the line is not as serious illness than the line will fo faster , if it does than you have to come back to wait in line again until you will be seen, than they will determent that you need sergery or not , or medicine …well if you still can stay ALIVE for a week than you come back , well by that time is doesn’t matter if you stillALIVE or DEAD Right !!!!

    • Brian Rawls

      It is going to pass, there is nothing anyone can do about it. It is too late.

  • Matthew

    I have figured out the government health care lie and why some people support it.

    Those on welfare and government support believe they will get the same care as those who pay for it i.e. the insured. This would take them from Yugo health care to Cadillac health care. We on the other end understand that we will go from Ford or Chevy health care to Schwinn.

    Does anybody remember Soylent Green the movie? This is where they kill off all the elderly people to stop the overcrowding of the globe and so they don’t have to pay for health care, and then they use their bodies to create food for the rest of the world, funny how art mimics life.

  • James Corbin

    Veronique, If you are an older person, it will be worse to get medical care–if any!!!!

    • Brian Rawls

      Ha! People are walking dead and dont even know it yet.

  • James Corbin

    Brian, You are exactly right! We need to make our voices heard before it is too late!
    Medicare, may be getting depleted— Why couldn’t that money be put into medicare?
    It may be government—-but the government isn’t telling us what doctor we can see and what care we can have!! I can’t see why people are so blind! They better wise up.
    Obama wants a TRILLION to put into his health care. It’s BULL! He is trying to destroy America!! He has a tongue of a snake!!

    • Brian Rawls

      James, I dont want to sound like a mean person. I just want people to think about this really hard before its too late. This is whats going to doom them.

    • Valverde

      An oily tongue of a snake.

  • James Corbin

    Matthew—-Right-On!

    • Brian Rawls

      I could never imagine of having to worry about this horrible stuff. Never thought I would live to see it happen.

  • James Corbin

    So many of you are so right and s c —- that is the way it is going to be. I can’t believe
    the LEFT, so worried how the terrorist were being treated and do this to the american people!

  • Betty Murphy

    WE are already paying $1,000,000.DAILY in interest on Obama’s ‘Porkulus,Payoff’
    $787 billion!!! Americans strongly oppose this “healthcare plan”. A better name for the 1000+pages Obamacare would be ‘DEATHCARE PLAN’. forcing taxpayers to pay for the premeditiated murder of additional thousands of unborn babies(already 4000 are killed daily)! Plus the DEATHCARE plan will cause the deaths of many seniors from denial/rationing of care,long waits for medical procedures,and to see doctors. Working as an R.N. for 30+ years,I know the shortage of nurses grows every year,doctors will not work the 70-80 hours weekly (as most do now)for the salary the government will pay them. Read the Heritage Foundation for their independent analysis documenting what will happen if this disaster is passed.
    The white house comment line is 202-456-1111
    the White House line is 202-456-1414 so far I haven’t been able to talk to them or leave a message, busy signals!!Probably have the phones off the hooks.they DON’T want to hear from the American people.
    I have been able to send e-mails to the White House.

  • http://eandi824@cox.net irene pine

    These top people in washington all ready hav our United states for screwed up I can not believe it.
    I agree with all of you that are saying CONGRESS and Obama’s evil friends should all have to go on the same program that we are being forced to take.
    /turst me by the time he is done we will not be able to vote him or his people out. All we can do is PRAY that something happens to correct all this nonsense before it is too late.
    His goal is to raise the taxes so high that the government will take all our property as we will not be able to pay them.
    I say we all should get together and have a REVOLUTION AND DO AWAY WITH ALL THE CROOKS.
    480-969-5405

    • debra

      I agree! Where are our skin head boys and our KKK boys when we need. They must still be out in the field training for the new revolution.

  • Eric g

    I really can’t imagine how so many people believe that government healthcare is going to be such a disaster . We have had government involved in healthcare all our lives . The states have passed laws saying a doctor has to go through medical school . drugs can be patented , Nurses can be registered , if they go to threw nursing school . Nobody can sell this drug without the patents owners permission , for 7yrs . Drug companies can get the patents extended and keep the exclusive right to sell a certian drug even longer . Since 1920 even pharmacists had to graduate from pharmacy school . The government has been gradually passing more rules all the time . Finally a law was passed here making it illegal for health care providers to charge people without insurance double rates . I was charged three times higher prices than what my doctor charged the insurance co for the same service . Now thats against the law . Medical schools only allow a certian number of people in the doctors school . I believe its possible to keep getting our good medical care at lower costs . As you all know medical expenses have been rising faster than most of us have been able to keep up with . The governments involvement with healthcare has been going on for a long time , mostly to protect us . But the healthcare industry has gotten a lot of protection also . Its time we look a little more closely at heathcare costs . I see nobody trying to lower costs , evreybody seems to want to get a bigger share of the Pie , but the pie is only so big . I dont believe the conservatives have a monopoly on truth , or only liberals lie . I believe Walmate has been a tremedious success , becuase of the drug stores in evrey walmate store . The healthcare buisness is one of the highest income buisnesses in armerica . Maybe they have been granted to many exclusive rights .

    • s c

      Eric, younger adults haven’t lived long enough to get an accurate ‘feel’ for what our government does and doesn’t do. Uncle Sam has a long history of lies and misinformation. It would be nice if our government had a true reputation for being open and honest. But, that’s NOT the way it is. The health care ‘reform’ issue alone is so deadly serious that pitchforks and ropes should be a part of
      any ‘cure.’ B O’s health care ‘reform’ will give government total, absolute control over our lives. That is NOT an opinion. NO government is worth that. B O and his hired thugs want total government control over our lives without firing a shot. Your choices are freedom or slavery – no more, no less. Choose wisely, Eric.

      • Betty Murphy

        Notice there is absolutely no mention of tort reform in the DEATHCARE plan;the Democrats won’t pass anything that would decrease the income of trial lawyers,their largest donor group.Tort reform WOULD decrease the cost of healthcare for everyone;but they are not interested in doing that.
        The “47 million uninsured ” is another lie!Of the 47 million,10-12 million are not American citizens,but citizens of foreign countries,according to the census bureau.Many others are young people that could afford insurance,but choose to spend their money on other things.Heritage study says 88 million Americans would lose the healthcare coverage they now have.A recent Zogby poll shows 84% of Americans are satisfied with the healthcare coverage they have.THERE IS NO CRISIS,except Obama and minions forcing their monstrosity deathcare bill on overburdened taxpayers!

  • Eric g

    Deathcare , believe or it not this is going to be a very important question for some of us . A while ago a farmer walked into the hospital and shot his wife . I think I know what was going on , My dog laid and cried all nite from pain , I shot my dog , but the farmer went to jail . I think the farmer loved his wife . My friend wanted to do the same thing to the mother of his three childran . When Christ was hanging on the cross if I could not let him down , I would shoot . I believe a lot of doctors have maybe overdosed patients they care for . The peace of death can be what we hope for . I know the consevatives think the liberals will spend all your money on stimulis and than when you retire give you a 15 cent pill to relax your heart muscle .
    This certianly would make social security jump into the black again , wouidn’t it . The way they are spending they will have to borrow the 15 cents from Chinia .

    • Brian Rawls

      War is on the way. Prepare for battle. They will be comming for your firearms next. Dont give them anything, regardless what laws get passed. Resist at all costs. Stock pile ammo, food ,and other supplies. Be aware and alert the government will move fast when their last phase is set in motion.

      • Betty Murphy

        Agreed!!
        Notice CONGRESS has exempted itself from the burdensome laws they have placed on the people! Congress should be forced to live under the same laws they make for the American people. Healthcare is just one example!

        • Brian Rawls

          You will only lose freedom if you let them take it from you. Take a stand no matter what they say. If they want to ban firearms I dont care. They can have mine at a high cost of human life. They will get me at some point, but I will get my fair share of those who try to enforce it.

      • debra

        Whoa..Brian…How did I miss this one. Who needs calming down now. Now that I got all looped on xanax….Do you need to take some deep breathes,slow your beathing down..Oh hell..who is coming after us? All of our military will be in Irag,Af,Iran Nkorea who is left???

        • Brian Rawls

          I was just being silly.

        • Brian Rawls

          Not, they are comming for our guns next Debra. They have all the fema death camps they need to start rounding us up in. Google fema death camps.

        • debra

          Brian..I did look up the camps. I`m not convinced….look at some of the grammar and the way they spelled America..”amerikka” .middleasterns and people from Nigeria spell it that way. I don`t know..it is very scary though.DeBra

  • Eric g

    No maybe the doctor wont work 70 to 80 hrs a week for what the governments wants to pay him .
    We will knock one wall out of the medical school expand the school and let in four times more kids into medical school , A doctor only needs to work 20 hrs a week , the rest of the time he should spend learning better practices and new methods or proceedures .
    This idea a doctor has to put in long terrible hrs is a bunch of b S . Ive hired a couple of doctors , best Ive been able to tell they charged about $5000, per hr . So why would they want to work 70 hrs a week . Even 1 hr of surgery per week should bring in all they need .

  • Eric g

    Abby how will the federal governments health care kill your husband . I dont believe you . My fathers friend was a doctor , and he often did not charge my family for health care , I dont see how that could hurt you or your husband . Unless maybe your husband is a doctor that was hoping to charge for service and somebody else is passing it out for free . Just imagine how all the prostitutes might feel

  • Thomas Morgan

    Think about this my fellow patriots, our distinguished senators Kennedy and Dodd have already thought of you being on an equal playing field with our elected officials in the house and in the senate regarding Obamacare. They are not going to be giving up theirs. And one more point I would like to make, Where does the rest of the world go when they need health care? It’s not Cuba, no it’s not Canada, no not even England they come to the greatest country in the history of the world the United States of America!!!!!

  • http://none Pat Mencke

    I am about to name drop. Before I do, let me say that the World’s brain trust resides in the Swedish Nobel Academy in Stockholm. Thes are the people who know the most about the most. They are also completely non-political and incorruptible. When they select a person to receive a Nobel Award and the $100,000 prize that goes with it, it is because that person has a globalized world view that is at the top of everything all the other people in that field have thus far learned and think (not feel, but have proven) to be the best information humans have currently. The winners are also judged on their own incorruptibility and integrity, and the money is to help them with the further pursuit of knowledge and the dissemination of that knowledge, non-discriminately, in their field. None of us here can touch them I.Q.-wise or education-wise. With the exception of Al Gore and a small number of world leaders, and in the Peace Prize category, politicians are seldom found in their ranks–no integrity, little education. The very word “politics” has no place at the Nobel Foundation. Nobel winners are known to upbraid anyone who publicly says or does something stupid. Even President Obama and our Congresspersons. The Academy also keeps a website with tons of valuable information they make available for anyone who understands and has the intellectual curiosity to go there to learn.

    Yesterday in the NYT, the nobel winner in Economics posted an article that tells how insurance and the government intertwine and operate currently in America. This is accurate information you can count on. I will copy it here so that you don’t even have to look it up although that is always a good idea. He takes no “sides;” he simply explains here.

    OK. His name is Paul Krugman and I am told a lot of conservatives don’t like him. Sometimes he gets my goat too because I don’t want to hear what he says since I would rather hear that all is peace and love. But he always makes me stop and think and I try to do so, especially when he bugs me the worst. You too might want to reconsider your knee jerk reaction, consider his status in the world, and learn from him. Put on you intellectual curiosity hats and read on.

    July 31, 2009
    OP-ED COLUMNIST
    Health Care Realities
    By PAUL KRUGMAN
    At a recent town hall meeting, a man stood up and told Representative Bob Inglis to “keep your government hands off my Medicare.” The congressman, a Republican from South Carolina, tried to explain that Medicare is already a government program — but the voter, Mr. Inglis said, “wasn’t having any of it.”
    It’s a funny story — but it illustrates the extent to which health reform must climb a wall of misinformation. It’s not just that many Americans don’t understand what President Obama is proposing; many people don’t understand the way American health care works right now. They don’t understand, in particular, that getting the government involved in health care wouldn’t be a radical step: the government is already deeply involved, even in private insurance.
    And that government involvement is the only reason our system works at all.
    The key thing you need to know about health care is that it depends crucially on insurance. You don’t know when or whether you’ll need treatment — but if you do, treatment can be extremely expensive, well beyond what most people can pay out of pocket. Triple coronary bypasses, not routine doctor’s visits, are where the real money is, so insurance is essential.
    Yet private markets for health insurance, left to their own devices, work very badly: insurers deny as many claims as possible, and they also try to avoid covering people who are likely to need care. Horror stories are legion: the insurance company that refused to pay for urgently needed cancer surgery because of questions about the patient’s acne treatment; the healthy young woman denied coverage because she briefly saw a psychologist after breaking up with her boyfriend.
    And in their efforts to avoid “medical losses,” the industry term for paying medical bills, insurers spend much of the money taken in through premiums not on medical treatment, but on “underwriting” — screening out people likely to make insurance claims. In the individual insurance market, where people buy insurance directly rather than getting it through their employers, so much money goes into underwriting and other expenses that only around 70 cents of each premium dollar actually goes to care.
    Still, most Americans do have health insurance, and are reasonably satisfied with it. How is that possible, when insurance markets work so badly? The answer is government intervention.
    Most obviously, the government directly provides insurance via Medicare and other programs. Before Medicare was established, more than 40 percent of elderly Americans lacked any kind of health insurance. Today, Medicare — which is, by the way, one of those “single payer” systems conservatives love to demonize — covers everyone 65 and older. And surveys show that Medicare recipients are much more satisfied with their coverage than Americans with private insurance.
    Still, most Americans under 65 do have some form of private insurance. The vast majority, however, don’t buy it directly: they get it through their employers. There’s a big tax advantage to doing it that way, since employer contributions to health care aren’t considered taxable income. But to get that tax advantage employers have to follow a number of rules; roughly speaking, they can’t discriminate based on pre-existing medical conditions or restrict benefits to highly paid employees.
    And it’s thanks to these rules that employment-based insurance more or less works, at least in the sense that horror stories are a lot less common than they are in the individual insurance market.
    So here’s the bottom line: if you currently have decent health insurance, thank the government. It’s true that if you’re young and healthy, with nothing in your medical history that could possibly have raised red flags with corporate accountants, you might have been able to get insurance without government intervention. But time and chance happen to us all, and the only reason you have a reasonable prospect of still having insurance coverage when you need it is the large role the government already plays.
    Which brings us to the current debate over reform.
    Right-wing opponents of reform would have you believe that President Obama is a wild-eyed socialist, attacking the free market. But unregulated markets don’t work for health care — never have, never will. To the extent we have a working health care system at all right now it’s only because the government covers the elderly, while a combination of regulation and tax subsidies makes it possible for many, but not all, nonelderly Americans to get decent private coverage.
    Now Mr. Obama basically proposes using additional regulation and subsidies to make decent insurance available to all of us. That’s not radical; it’s as American as, well, Medicare.

    • debra

      Oh please Al Gore won a prize from those nuts. Just goes to show if Gore pulled one over on them maybe they are not as smart as you think they are.

  • James Corbin

    These people are going to see what Obama really is but I am sorry to say it will be too late! He is turning his back on the jews. When we go against Iseral——–woe unto .us

  • http://none Pat Mencke

    sc: The doors to voluntary euthanasia are already open. Some States have assisted suicide laws on the books. There will be more States adopting such laws because each of us should have the option of saying I’ve had enough. Let me go. Also we each have the option of establishing a living will to direct which services we want and which we do not want to be subjected to. The only time now such things go to court is when parents want to deny children life saving treatments based on the parent’s religious beliefs or inconvenience.

    Currently insurance companies are in control of life saving treatment options by simply canceling your coverage or denying coverage. I have been uninsurable since I was 15 except during the times I worked for employers who made available government subsidized medical coverage which did not allow for discrimination of coverage.

    Terry: Medicare is a government run organization. Participants are allowed to self-refer to any doctor or specialist of their choice. The issue that is hurting Medicare is the high cost of drugs because of the monopoly the drug companies have been handed.

    Valverde: The provisions of the healthcare reform bill are all based on what participants want to do with their end-of-life treatment and that is legal in the State in which they will receive their treatment. It is an amplification of Title 18 of the Social Security Act. Consultations every five years, or less if needed because of heath changes, will be paid for in case you want them. They are not mandatory. This is great because it cost me a fortune in time invested to get this information together for our family. Religious lobbying and insurance companies hide this info as much as they can from all of us. Funny, if something is good for us, why do christians think they need to hide it. I suggest it is not christians who do this but people who want to manipulate our thinking on information that should be available to us all gratis.

    You can read the bill and several analyses at About.com.

    Also, you might want to read more about Leo Strauss, the neocon’s hero, before you start attaching ‘vich’ a Russian sounding insult, to anyone’s name. Strauss was a German who advocated a two-tiered system of justice as in the “superiors” could as they please but the “vulgar” would get nailed for any small infraction. He also wrote that there are truths appropriate for children, adults, educated adults, and highly educated adults, and that all but the “superiors” were unfit to even hear most knowledge. The superior people should fabricate “noble fraud and lies” to lead the masses wherever into whatever they wanted them to think. You might to look around at all the propaganda coming our way about healthcare and Obama lately. Straussians believe there is no such think as “A” truth for everyone. They believe that is a “Democratic” idea that has failed. Please, please, please look all this up. These people do not believe in Democracy. They are innately unAmerican. And they will tell us anything in order to take America away from us or prevent us from taking America back away from their lobbyists. They consider themselves the superior intellectuals but they don’t even understand that the American experiment is the most intellectual movement our species has ever tried. Bill Kristol is on the Advisory Board of the Leo Strauss Center at the U. of Chicago. I just found all this out this last week when Kristol tried to attribute the concept of “noble lies” to liberals. It is a basic tenent, however, of conservative’s hero Leo Strauss. Please, please look all this up. I will be spending lots of time with Mr. Strauss, his center and his ideas now that I have found that he is a conservative hero.

    debra: It is not Obama who is willing to deny your mother the care to which she is entitled. It is the insurance companies. Check out OFA’s space where they let anyone tell their stories about the “care” they have received from the insurance monopoly. And then protect yourself from people who are telling you Obama will take her treatments away from her. They are not your friends. He is stipulating and paying for each of us to have the best knowledge of what is available to us in the Medicare and government subsidized healthcare. At at every turn he respects the decisions of patients themselves. Read the bill and don’t be confused by the propaganda. Or at least fact check it.

    Donna: The 35% dropout rate can be attributed directly to neocons who believe many of us are too stupid to be allowed to be educated.
    The coming Medicare deficit will be produced by the drug and insurance industries if we do not curb them now.
    Below is a copy of page 637 of the bill. You will see that the wording you say appears there is indeed, not there. But you already knew that didn’t you? You wouldn’t be trying to pump propaganda at us would you?

    sc: The government is running the only good healthcare programs we have and has been doing so for years until the neocons gave away our health security to corporate greed. Medicare works beautifully.

    Brian Rawls: See my post above that explains how government subsidies have provided insurance for most of us INSPITE of corporate greed.
    You also might want to think about who runs the military, who builds roads and bridges, ports, ships, funds research that has saved so many human lives, interfaces with foreign governments, balances food production and foreign trade, and on and on and on. It has only become troublesome in the last 30 years when so many have tried to take we the people out of the equation and substitute a group of people who haven’t been smart to govern intelligently. You can help correct that.

    Anonymous–No need to woorry…
    You are certainly right when you say we need to get “to know the organizers better.” I’m trying to help and it sounds like you could too. I hope you are wrong about “We have now sentience not a sentence.” We have certainly deteriorated lately but we are now being given a chance to become American citizens again and I hope we will be able to combat the ignorance thrown at us daily and put America back where it belong.

    Roger Collins: You have a good deal of the big picture. I just went through a Medicare scam with a friend. In this case Medicare caught it. It was a double charge by a doctor or at least the doctor’s billing service. But there are others that are horrendous.
    The illegals do need to be dealt with and I hope we will find a humane way to do so. I can hardly wait for our new President to tackle immigration seriously, which is, at the moment, less important than letting our healthcare system bring down our whole economy.

    Mark Moore: I couldn’t agree more. They are our servants. Either they represent us or we fire them. Bush got fired because in no way did he represent the American people. His actions and his words never pulled together. He managed at every turn to make decisions not appropriate for a Democracy. The god he claimed advised him failed economics and didn’t give a damn about Americans and was a greedy hog. Do you think he may have been trying to put the shuck to us?

    W Reed: You got it. You might want to look at Leo Strauss, as I currently am doing, in regard to our oligarchy. He was a German who overreacted, apparently, to the fall of the Weimar Republic. The Republic was a Democracy that was badly run and fell to the Nazis. Strauss then became anti-Democracy. Our neocons think he is a hero. And what does that make them? You figure it out.

    Valverde: You are a piece of work. No one can be anti-business who has a lick of sense. And no one said they were except you. Bush started the bailouts when he became desperate. And he handed us a situation where no one can win except if we somehow manage to keep our country afloat. All of us are losers now. That was the last government; not this one. You can hardly call Bush’s regime a “government.”
    We do appear to be making a little headway now.
    But we need to see that “business” is required to become good citizens again. They have civic responsibilities just like all of us who benefit from being Americans. Out and out exploitation is not a civic virtue.

    Shawn Waters: You don’t even command half of the picture. You are simply wrong. Try again and try to keep up.

    Brian Rawls: Waters is asking for it and that is correct. He/she is totally clueless. However, maybe if enough of us wise up, we may keep him/her yet to live a natural life expectantcy.

    Abbe Garcia: If this healthcare does’t pass, it will be the death of our economy and most of us. The rest will live in misery for a long time. You need to know that are worth a lot all by yourself. But you can keep him around by finding out what is really going on. Rawls has your number.

    Hey Rawls; where did you go? Your government has been insuring you for years. It is the insurance companies who are taking away your healthcare. They have such a monopoly they can deny coverage for no reason whenever the whim moves them. This has been happening now for years. They can drop you like a hot potato. They can charge employers out of business currently and are doing so. And this is going on while they take home obscene profits. If you don’t like this, help break their monopoly by supporting the healthcare bills and introduce good old capitalist competition back into AMerican business. I think maybe that is what you are saying so be too hard on me.

    debra: Those crazy white people should be in prison but few of them are. The rest of them are in the South trying to distract you from the facts by telling you that Obama is not a citizen. They are also keeping you distracted with blaming Obama for Michael Jackson’s death, drugged out professional sports, TV, propaganda, the backassward notion that Obama is a racist, noble lies and frauds, and they ought to be deported. Let’s deport them out of our healthcare system at least.

    veronique: I’m sorry to hear about your experience in the country you left. Here we have Medicare and you can self-refer and get an appointment just like everyone else. They help with the cost of drugs and there are programs for the indigent to receive even more help. Her you also have insurance through your employers. Not a many as used to provide this and under the new bills smaller employers will provide less. These two programs are both government run programs. They have saved many lives and much suffering. But our last government official gave a lot of this away to the drug and insurance companies. When we pass the new laws, you will be much better taken care of.

    Matthew: Don’t fool yourself, Matthew, we will all pay for good healthcare. But we will then all get good healthcare. It will be an extreme burden lifted from all our shoulders. Right now we rank at the bottom in the quality of healthcare we receive, in American, below all other industrialized countries. Yet, we pay twice a much. Try to keep up. All that other money that should be used for our healthcare is going to pay lobbyists and Congresspersons, advertising, propaganda, paper work and obscene profits for drug and insurance companies. Medicare is about the best care we have in America right now and it is run by the government. Other industrial countries long ago got rid of these meddlesome middlemen and are happily using their huge patient pools to bargain down prices and give the best care currently available. Do your homework at reputable sources. But you can see my post above that explains how the government has kept healthcare available for us for years before the neoconservatives garnered they have no proven they never deserved.

    James Corbin: The longer we wait to correct the glaring irregularities in healthcare, the harder it will be to correct them.

    Brian Rawls: I know you are laughing at people who are being lead by propaganda instead of using their heads. I am still hopeful they will reach across the table as I am.

    James Corbin: You have it all right right up until you blame Obama for the cost to get our healthcare turned around and call him a lier. I do have trouble with the sentence that reads: “Medicare, may be getting depleted— Why couldn’t that money be put into medicare?” What can that possibly mean?

    You must not know that for years many of us have tried to get this country to follow the other industrial countries into single-payer, efficiently managed healthcare. This is not just Obama’s idea. If you have read any of this post you must see that the most christian country in the world is the least caring about it’s citizens suffering. American should have lead the way, by rights, into single-payer systems. The idea behind them is to cover everyone and provide a huge bargaining pool to cut the cost of quality care. We are so far behind that it will cost a lot to catch up. Don’t kill the messenger. We have all watched for years while America fell farther and farther behind. You should thank fortune that we now have someone willing to stand up to the special interests and fix this monstrous problem before it takes our whole economy down.

    Valverde: Look whose talking.

    J. Corgin: The left didn’t do this to Americans. Conservatives did it to us. Liberals have tried for years to keep this from happening. You, sir, are deluded.

    Betty Murphy: Pork spending began to increase when the Republicans took over in 1995. Now we are forced to do spending that we would not have had to do if it weren’t for the pork they forced through instead of taking care of business.
    There is no DEATHCARE provision in the new bills other than a promise to pay for consultations if patient want them.

    Your religious beliefs regarding women’s medical care have no business being codified into our healthcare laws. You may do as your wish about this issue in private.

    I repeat that Medicare has no waiting and no rationing and it is a government run system. You may be thinking about a few single-payer systems, but that is not what the current bills are. We are currently working on a public option to bring competition into our heath system.

    Two thirds of doctors favor a single-payer system in America as do three quarters of private citizens. But the current plans include only a public option.

    The Heritage is anything but independent. It is an untra-conservative foundation.

    debra: No where on the internet but in conservative websites does anyone ever threaten violence except in conservative sites. Are you proud of not having enough facts or a big enough vocabulary to explane your views without degrading yourself into violent threats?

    sc: Wrong again. With the plans currently before us, everyone will have a chance to participate or not. The more people who participate, the more bargaining power the public option will have. You really should get your facts straight before you attempt to tell other people what is going on in the world.

    Betty Murphy: Clueless about Tort reform, you are. First is a separate issue that needs to be dealt with separately from the complicated bills currently being considered. Secondly, without Tort courts none of us could ever make the medical establishment live up to any standards. Bush loved that idea. But informed Americans see that his simplistic view is inadequate.

    Eric g: Thanks for using your head. Doctors do not have to deal out medications to let terminal patients die. They are by definition going to die. But they can withhold medication and nutrients with the patient has requested this. We already have that privilege. There is no DEATHCARE in the current bills except the usual and an offer to pay for consultation with experts of your choice if you want it.
    After my mother watched for years her friends forced by their children into chemo, hip transplants (at 80 years–a painful life disrupting experience), lung removal, and other hideous tortures, she made them puddings because they couldn’t keep food down, she made them cute hats to cover bald heads (Do you have any idea how traumatizing that is for little old ladies?), she begged me not to do that and not let anyone else do that to her. I took me hours and money to research what avenues were available for her. When her heart demonstrated that it had no inclination to sustain her any longer, she died peacefully and in no pain. Living Wills are currently available and now consultation will be also.

    Brian Rawls: Stop aready. You’re too funny. We’re trying to have a discussion here.

    Betty Murphy: See the writing of your own people’s hero, Leo Strauss. You’re more right than you know. Your representation, your freedoms. you healthcare, your economy, and your freedom to straight news has been taken away from you by your own kind. Time to do something different. Start with learning about your hero Strauss and getting information that isn’t only propaganda. Then maybe we will listen to you. But so far you are just blathering.

    Thomas Morgan: That is only partially true. The trouble is that only a few Americans can afford medical attention of that caliber in America.
    Pat

    • s c

      First, the Swedish Nobel Academy will have integrity the day pigs fly at supersonic speeds. Al ‘duh’ Gore should have been told to take a long hike off a short pier. Their ‘prize’ money should go to people who haven’t been brainwashed. Your Swedish chums are part of the ‘best and brightest’ mentality, which gave us Woodie Wilson, FDR, Korea, Vietnam and FDR II [b o]. Second, there is no ‘e’ in liar [ref. your Corbin comment]. Third, read the Constitution. Fourth, open your eyes (and your mind). Fifth, get some fresh air daily.
      If you need a challenge, help America understand why b o talks about transparency, but his ‘great mind’ doesn’t know what it means. Good luck.

  • http://none Pat Mencke

    “This week, the Center for Responsive Politics reported that in the second quarter of this year alone, the pharmaceuticals and health product industries spent $67,959,095 on lobbying, and the insurance industry $39,760,477. Another $25,552,088 was spent by lobbyists for hospitals and nursing homes. That’s a total of $133,271,660 in just three months, and that’s not even counting the lobbying money spent to fight health care reform by professional associations like the US Chamber of Commerce.”
    Pat

  • http://none Pat Mencke

    First, the Swedish Nobel Academy will have integrity the day pigs fly at supersonic speeds. Al ‘duh’ Gore should have been told to take a long hike off a short pier. Their ‘prize’ money should go to people who haven’t been brainwashed. Your Swedish chums are part of the ‘best and brightest’ mentality, which gave us Woodie Wilson, FDR, Korea, Vietnam and FDR II [b o]. Second, there is no ‘e’ in liar [ref. your Corbin comment]. Third, read the Constitution. Fourth, open your eyes (and your mind). Fifth, get some fresh air daily. If you need a challenge, help America understand why b o talks about transparency, but his ‘great mind’ doesn’t know what it means. Good luck.

    Response: No doubt I am responding here to the author of this blog. The day anyone on this blog can match their integrity and I.Q. or the broadness of their world view to Members of the Nobel Academy will be the days “pigs fly,” etc. Sorry for the typo. Your “Constitution” comment is too open ended to be relevant to anything it follows. Look whose talking about transparency! You are leading the brigade of misinformation for yourself and the Straussians.

  • s c

    Now that everyone understands why ultralibs try to preach on Bob Livingston’s web site (childish attempts at divide-and-conquer), here’s a final thought for those who bray about integrity, IQ and a ‘world view.’ Useful idiots who are eager to live in ‘interesting times’ [in the Chinese sense], deserve their fate. America doesn’t want or deserve that. America is all about freedom. Big government’s braindead followers have no place here. They are enemies of freedom. Even now, we are in the midst of continuous battles for freedom, yet some prefer slavery. Some go to Harvard – to turn left. Some preach choice, and demand obedience to false, human gods. Some couldn’t buy common sense in a discount store. Some have elevators that never go to the top. Some think ‘I never had sex with that woman’ is morality of the highest order. Some equate ‘duh’ with genius. Enjoy your hallowed slavery in another country. Some see political and intellectual prostitutes as role models. Why does anyone pretend to care about ethics or integrity, when absolute power, insanity on steroids and eternal slavery are the goals of an ultralib paradise? As the old saying goes, ‘you can lead herds of jackasses toward common sense, but you can’t make those self-made losers think.’ Sobeit. Ooorah!

  • http://none Pat Mencke

    for sc:
    sc: Thanks for your brilliant piece of prejudice.
    My schtick has always been that we need to work together.
    The old Republicans had to be dragged into WWII because they truly were conservatives. The neoconservatives dragged us into a war based on avarice and prejudice. At a time when it was absolutely clear that we need to rid ourselves of fossil fuel neocons took this nation from billions of dollars of budget surplus to the biggest deficit we had ever seen, lost over 4,000 of our military, killed countless civilians, and for what? And in the aftermath, like you, they have not had the courage or the integrity to face reality and change, even now when you and they are totally disgraced. They had their chance at governing and they blew it disastrously. Now they are neither smart enough now gentlemanly enough to admit they failed and try to do better. They and you have now decided, in your infinite wisdom, to add to your failure by insisting that we should all bury our heads in the sand as you choose to. Only one of your heros has faced reality of your folly, Alan Greenspan. He was wrong but he is a gentleman. You, sir or madam, are not. You are either unable to admit you were wrong, are too brain washed to see you are wrong, or exploitative. You apparently chose to exploit the others on this blog to try to include them in delusions of rightousness. You, friend, are a blind follower of the worst big government advocates this country has ever seen and you either can’t or won’t face where it lead us. We’ll be trying to clean up the mess for years. Given your lack of credibility and questionable integrity, you could at least try to help with the sewer clean up. Instead you push the flow.
    The world has always been in a battle between freedom and exploitation. Your lack of historical perspective is showing in this area. That is what was so powerful and courageous of our Founding Fathers’ very new experiment in the most freedom for the most people. But freedom is costly and you too must pay the costs. Instead you champion adject capitulation to being brain washed, to adject lack of perspective, to having our way of life stolen from us by corporate unparalleled greed, to watching fellow citizens suffer in misery, to becoming more and more helpless in the face of corruption by lobbyists. So what do you do? You stoop, with these unAmericans, to further exploitation.
    By the way Bush graduated from Harvard Business School. So much for trying to label Harvard liberal.
    Common sense is what tells us the world is flat. You have to work hard for rationality. You have to dig below the horizon and be sure not to fall off the edge.
    You deliberate remain blithely unaware about who liberals are but are eager to “enlighten” others. You only know us by what your handlers tell you about us. How insane is it to have never looked up what we stand for. I know what you stand for, don’t I?
    I know the really fine people who represent you–Rush Limbaugh, a real brain but only in the area of distraction; Bill Kristol, willing at any turn to exploit and distract you; W. Bush, the failure who took away your tools of citizenship; Dick Cheney, the torturer; Marcus, the thief; Carl Rove, the conspirator ever ready with the distractions; Gonzalas, the whore; and on and on. And there you have it–a whole gang of unscrupulous, unamerican, thieves. And you’re calling liberals unethical?? Proving once again that you are definitely clueless.
    There are some things you need to do. You need to read what Humanists stand for.
    You need to read what the neocons’ hero, Leo Strauss, stands for.
    You need to learn more about the age old battle for freedom vs. slavery because you obviously have missed a lot.
    And you need to stop “pretending” you have it all figured out and we should trust you. You can’t even face your own failures and do something to keep yourself from being just another one of the “ignorant hoards,” (like your buddies mentioned above) coming over the hill once again to rape, pillage, destroy, and enslave.
    And you might consider the question, if you are so smart, ethical, educated, and absolutely no part of a jackass, why aren’t you the president? Do we all have to answer that one for you too?

    • Brian Rawls

      I just see Obama trying to ruin the right to bear arms. He thinks a small group of people should decide what is best for everyone else. You will never stop someone from killing another person. If its not with a gun it will be with a bat, knife or just running someone over. I dont understand make it legal to kill babies with a knife in a hospital. But heaven forbid a accident happens and someone gets shot with a pistol. All im saying is we must have population control. We dont want to be like China. They can hardly feed themselves.

      • s c

        Brian, when an MD ‘gives’ an abortion, did you know that loving procedure involves sucking out a baby’s brain? They care so much, they charge a lot of money for that LOVE. Did you know that one of b o’s czars says it’s ‘OK’ to kill little kids up to the age of 2? He says they’re ‘not yet civilized.’ Add to that mix Sotomayor’s plan to castrate white males, and you have one hell of a formula for population control. Can you feel the DEEP LOVE from this administration? Hitler would be so proud of this bunch. So much love for the American people, and so little time to ‘dish it out.’ How did we get to be so lucky? The LOVE never ends!

        • Brian Rawls

          I know, it is horrible. I was just being a smart-ass about the population control. I cant believe how horrible these people are, what are we going to do about it? I just wonder if someone will come along that we can vote for that will reverse all this madness. But with the way both parties are I dont think it will happen.

      • Mark Duran

        Brian, In our representative democracy we allow a small group of (elected) people to make our decisions… been that way from the beginning, so love it or leave it. There are over 2 billion guns in the United States, so do you really think that gun control will ever happen? Just keep writing your congress person and relax no one will take your guns away, and besides its only a misdemeanor to carry a gun without a permit ;)

        • Brian Rawls

          Mr. Mark, I do love my country. I understand that nobody will take my guns. I will shoot anyone who trys. I know they will get me in the end. I will just have to get as many as I can before that takes place. I dont really care what they pass, I will just know when its time to rock and roll. GOD BLESS

    • Brian Rawls

      Pat, You dont have to be so hateful. That is so not called for, maybe you should calm down before you have a stroke. You dont want to wait in that long line in the emergency room. You might just die because of all the non-legal citizens that are milking the system. lol lol lol God Bless. lol lol lol

  • http://none Pat Mencke

    here is new reply comment:
    “Pat, You dont have to be so hateful. That is so not called for, maybe you should calm down before you have a stroke. You dont want to wait in that long line in the emergency room. You might just die because of all the non-legal citizens that are milking the system. lol lol lol God Bless. lol lol lol”

    The truth sometimes can sound hateful depending on whether or not you are willing to face it.

    I pretty much matched the tenor of your last missive to me. Sorry if I too harshly called a spade a spade. I’ve have been called much worse on this site.

    Do try to think about the truth of the picture I presented and get a breathe of how you look to other people besides those who agree with you always.

    And once again, thanks for another dose of mindless, substance free prejudice.
    Pat

    • Brian Rawls

      lol

  • http://none Pat Mencke

    Brian Rawls:
    You are wrong about Obama wanting to take guns away. He has stated he does not advocate that but supports gun ownership. I have been a fire arm instructor and I am with you. Some of the NRA stances are ridiculous and sensational. And their insistance that if you vote against oozies in the hands of criminals, you are not a real American is bullying. When they tell you you either vote with them or you are a traitor, they are bullying and playing on your fears. When they say Obama wants your guns, they are lying. They try always to make people into one-issue voters. What we really need are thinking voters.
    You are right about the need for population control. It is pretty much the basis for all our problems.
    Pat

  • Mark Duran

    Hi all, I haven’t posted here before, so if I’m doing anything wrong let me know.

    On my income, I haven’t been able to afford health care for years. I’m in my 50s, so I don’t qualify for Medicare, I’m self employeed so I can’t be in a group. The latest quote I got from BlueShield is $1100 per month and I only bring home about $17000 per year… do the math. So right now I don’t go to the doctor. I can’t afford medication that I desperately need to lead a normal life and my teeth are rotting in my mouth. I didn’t mean to grow up to be poor but that’s the way it turned out. I was hopeful that the President and Congress would figure out a way to get us out of this mess. But the republicans and conservative democrats in congress flush with the health insurance industry money are digging in their heels and the propaganda mill at Fox is whipping their minions into another hateful frenzy — ultimately sabotaging the best chance for affordable health care that we’ve had in decades. Instead of putting politics aside and participating in this democracy to provide the best for its people its Congress is in yet another pissing match. I don’t want insurance, I want healthcare. I think we should dismantle the health insurance industry. It’s time to take health care away from the middle men, limit doctor’s salaries and pharma’s excessive profit, get rid of for-profit hospitals. It will be a bitter pill at first, but at the rate we’re going none of us will be able to afford the rates in the near future. Access to safe and affordable healthcare is a right in most of the civilized world, why can’t the United States get on board? Its time for a healthcare (capital R) revolution. Who’s up for some civil disobedience?

    Thanks for reading to my rant.

    –Mark

  • http://none Pat Mencke

    Brian: I think we are getting on a first name basis here. Is that alright with you?
    sc just tried to tell you tell you in a particularly graphic and silly way how abortions are done. What would be the reason be to “suck” out babies brains? That is a nasty attempt of at pulling your emotional strings. Right here is the place to insert the use of your brain.
    sc also tells us that Obama says it is OK to kill two-year-old babies. sc, please produce the proof of this insane pronouncement. Two-year-olds are not yet civilized and that is true. But courts are full of people who have killed them and been fried. Killing children is against the law in America, sc. What planet are you from?
    sc, Sotomayor or no one in America, particular the administration, would ever consider castrating white males! Or any other males. Not even if they deserve it. I suggest you read about what happens to sex offenders in America. No one will allow them to be castrated, not even if they ask to be. Where are you getting these ideas? Share your sources with us. And your other fears also.
    Also, fortunately in America we have the rule of law so that you do not have to rely on anyone loving you in order to have your rights protected.
    Pat

    • Brian Rawls

      Pat, you must be on some sort of crusade here. It is a big mess in politics right now, I just know that Obama is for abortion. I still see that as murder. That is still the debate with most people today.

  • http://none Pat Mencke

    Brian: I wanted to share with you a book I think you might find interesting. It is called “Your Inner Fish.” It has a lot to tell us about the development of a fetus and barrels and truckloads of other fascinating, thoroughly researched, information.
    Pat

    • Brian Rawls

      The name of that book just sounds a little strange to me. Maybe another title would have been better. lol

    • Brian Rawls

      I will look into it despite the title. lol

  • http://none Pat Mencke

    So, Bob, won’t print that one huh? Too close to home I take it. You do realize that you are telling me exactly why you won’t support the healthcare bills by what you choose not to print don’t you?

  • http://none Pat Mencke

    Mark: I have been uninsurable for most of my life also.
    You should know that conservatives tell us that universal healthcare is socialism because it is not stated in our Constitution that healthcare is a right. They ignore all the things the authors could not have anticipated. They ignore all the advances in medical science, and improvement in our longevity and all the research that has eliminated so many diseases and human suffering. They ignore the Center for Disease Control, flu shots, vaccines, pandemics, climate change bringing tropical diseases to our borders amongst other things. They ignore that intelligent people have embraced America’s progress. Our Constitution does say our government will, “promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity” (—the Preamble to our Constitution). Healthcare for all certainly does promote the general welfare. It is not socialism, however, because our current reform bills assiduously avoid limiting people’s choices. In socialist regimes people are told what they will and won’t do.
    Conservatives also ignore that 59% of healthcare insurance is provided by our government. They don’t see that Medicare is government run with self-referal to any doctor you wish, and that employer based insurance does not discriminate against anyone exactly because it is government subsidized.
    The socialism accusation is just a distraction and absurd into the bargain.
    So there you have part of the picture. Stick around; there’s more.
    Pat

    • Brian Rawls

      Pat Pat Pat, People just dont want this kind of change. Save the whales, club the seals, lets just give global warming a chance. Despite global warming being a hoax, we could just drop the thermostate a few degrees. Why do we have to be the only country following those silly laws congress wants to pass? Do you think China will follow these kinds of laws? Not just no but HELL NO they wont. They still used lead based paint in baby toys, plastic in baby formula. They dont give a funky rats ass about global warming per say. They dont care about polution nor will they stop. Pat, stop trying to be Captain Planet. You are not our hero, you wont take polution down to zero. lol! lol!

  • http://none Pat Mencke

    Brian: We are all laid up around my place because of one member’s surgery. He taught for 33 years at our local University. With forced to be sedentary he has thoroughly researched climate crisis. He was skeptical before he started but not anymore. Your passive attitude will condemn billions of people to hideous deaths. So I would like to know why you would be willing to do that and yet you balk at abortion. Could their be some bias afoot here? Some brainwashing? Some manipulation?
    Also, China has balked so far because of the US’s, under Bush, failure to recognize that global warming is real and to get us on the path of energetically combating it. But the threat to our planet is so serious that China is rethinking it all. They are watching us to see if we are seriously committed to action on this front. By your lack of support, you will encourage China to drag it’s feet.
    Also, also, there is a great article on it at Wikipedia. Wikipedia now has 75,000 editors working constantly to only present unbias, science based, thorough, straight information and you can rely on it for all sorts of easy to read information. I recommend you make use of it. You’ll enjoy it too since you seem to have some intellectual curiosity working for you.
    Pat

  • http://none Pat Mencke

    Brian: I will talk here now about a collective “YOU” with no intention of singling you our. You just happened to be the one person here who had the gumption to state your ideas. So don’t take offense and I don’t wish to be hateful to anyone. And I will not apologize for being passionate about America. Here goes.

    You know if you can’t be passionate about you, your kids, your kids’ kids’, etc., what can you be passionate about? I guess you are telling me those you know are so afraid of facing change that you don’t have what it takes to look at the reality situation and turn off the TV. Your kids will thank you for that as they starve to death.
    Perhaps your circle of acquaintances are all that lazy and uninformed but most of America is trying to save our way of life. Are you telling me that you haven’t see any of the pictures of the refugee camps in Darfur or anywhere else? Darfur is an environmental war. People have lived there together peacefully for Millennia until recently when they water resources began to dry up. Now genocide rules because they have no options and people are being murdered, raped, starved, are dying of disease and lack of medical help and clean water. That’s what is in store for us if we do not rise to this challenge and protect ourselves. Think of all the people who fought with their lives so that you could enjoy freedom. Then look at the statements you (all) have been making.
    Yes we are running up the deficit but we also have the ability to pay it off if we work together. We have to borrow money because that is our only option. We have to get off fossil fuel because there is not another option. We have to get our industrial sector providing jobs here at home because we don’t have other options. We have to get our people back to work. We have to curb healthcare costs to get our economy back on it’s feet. We have to regulate greed in our financial sector. They have been steeling us blind with the blessing of our last president and several before him. Now we, our families, our way of life, our water supplies, our food, our oceans, the very existence of our species, the the environment that sustains us are threatened because of unscrupulous greed and the intellectual bankruptcy of those who believe Obama is responsible for Michael Jackson’s death and that our black president is a racist. Surely you can see the ridiculousness of comparing an informal program like cash for clunkers, that is working nearly too well, to our new healthcare bill or that they are in any way similar. The people doing that simply haven’t found a way to take credit for it.
    It is not an option to dream that things haven’t changed. You are telling me that rather than get up some gumption, you will stand aside and watch your kids be raped and murdered over a gallon of good water.
    If you don’t like a healthcare plan that gives you more options than we have ever had before, you really aren’t going to like being told that you will get whatever care China or Indian, or Iran want to give you and you will shut up. You can have one baby for every third family. If you don’t comply your home and those of your family, will be bulldozed. And you are really going to wish you had sacrificed a few undifferentiated cells with no self-awareness and a questionable future to watching your loved ones die in a refugee camp in Texas. I’m not just trying to scare you. We are out of options.
    You must have some ability to adapt! See if you can’t find it. It is a thing mammals have been know to do.
    Stop sitting on your hands; see what’s really going on; Wikipedia will help lots; and stop listening to politicians and exploiters who just want you to sit down and do nothing and follow them even if they have proven themselves bereft of ideas, disgraced by their incompetence, and with absolute zero credibility.
    None of us want change. I’d like to be taking my kids to Turner falls where I swam when I was a kid, with blackjack oak, berries and flowers everywhere, clean water I could drink out of the stream, and unpolluted fish nibbling our toes. Ain’t going to happen. Now that’s change! Now, I’m just trying to prevent them from starving in a crispy critter world. If you can’t get up some passion about that you’re already dead.
    I don’t really care what you want call me. I just want you to face our situation and help fix it.
    And Brian, you are a good sport. I just remembered something you might want to look up and another book that might be helpful. The book, “The Road” by Carmac McCormick, puts all this into perspective. There is a movie out by the same name that will take less of your time. The movie stars Viggo Mortensen. Then look up the “Anthropocene” in Wikipedia. I have a lot of other website URLs if you want to go further. So do a lot of other truly concerned and passonate people. I never tell you to take my word for anything. I just want to help you get accurate information. When you are so passionless about your life and America, you are ripe for exploitation. If I were trying to exploit you, that is the last thing I would say to you.
    Pat

    • Brian Rawls

      Hold on Pat, Everything this prez has been doing has been hurting this country. Spending is out of control,anti-gun agenda, costing American jobs. Trying to destroy the private sector. Letting dictators run all over him to boot. When does an American prez surround himself with anti-American people. He has even said that the constitution is a out-dated document. You still think even after this guy sticks his nose into the cop-teacher case speaking about racism that he isnt a racist. Com-on, Jerimiah Right. Whats up Pat? Im open about alot of things, but this guy is anti-American Pat. I just have a hard time seeing it any other way.

  • http://none Pat Mencke

    Response to me: “here is new reply comment:
    Hold on Pat, Everything this prez has been doing has been hurting this country. Spending is out of control,anti-gun agenda, costing American jobs. Trying to destroy the private sector. Letting dictators run all over him to boot. When does an American prez surround himself with anti-American people. He has even said that the constitution is a out-dated document. You still think even after this guy sticks his nose into the cop-teacher case speaking about racism that he isnt a racist. Com-on, Jerimiah Right. Whats up Pat? Im open about alot of things, but this guy is anti-American Pat. I just have a hard time seeing it any other way.”

    Is that you, Brian?
    Have you ever read “Big Brother is Watching You?” Do you understand what Orwellian misinformation is? Look up George Orwell in Wikipedia and see what people are talking about. Also read my last post to you. You missed a lot,

    The things you just said have been spoon fed to you. Apparently you haven’t done your homework on the economy yet.
    I tried to find some of the statements attributed to Obama posted on the web and found none of the ones I looked for. On Whitehouse.gov I found that Obama has said he supports removing assault weapons from our streets. He stated that he considers Sportsmen an entrigle ? part of anything related to the subject.. He said he supports State Rights on this issue so that can control the laws of their areas. He says he wants to enforce illegal trafficing in firearms (laws already on the books) especially the trafficing between here and Mexico. I couldn’t find anything he has said about the controversy in D.C. about handguns, but on May 22, ’09, “Obama signed a law (HR 627) that will prohibit the Secretary of the Interior from enacting or enforcing any regulations that restrict possession of firearms in National Parks or Wildlife Refuges, as long as the person complies with laws of the state in which the unit is found.”
    Jobs have been leaving America for years now thanks to corporate greed and no regulations. Obama is trying to get us back to manufacturing what we use here at home and creating new jobs in the energy sector. Ask yourself why the jobs left America and who let them go. Obama wasn’t even around when that went on. Thimk. (sic.)
    “{D}istroy the public sector…?” Presidents Reagan through Bush helped the public sector destroy itself. Obama was not there. The situation our public sector is in could not have been accomplished in the last nine months. It took years to run our economy into the ground. Thimk. (sic.)
    What “anti-American people” Obama. If you can’t name names and explain this statement, you’d better rethink it.
    One of Obama’s pet peeves is profiling. That is why he was angry when a policeman arrested a man who was in his own home. I would be furious if someone did that to me. I’m glad our Prez is thinking about such things. And we have seen again and again cases where cops shoot first and ask questions later. I have had a number of run-ins with policeman when they acted unethically, one of whom lost his job for what he tried to pull on me. There are good policemen and there are jackasses. Ask yourself why you are so willing to blame Obama in this case. This not rhetorical. I would like you to examine why you had a knee jerk negative reaction to Obama calling the policeman out. The cop had a number of optional behaviors but instead he arrested a man in his own home. Why didn’t you side with the homeowner? No Obama isn’t a racist. How Ludicrous. Jerimiah Right is an idiot and Obama canned him as his minister over his prejudice.
    Why don’t you just call him “boy” instead of Prez?
    President Obama is a Constitutional scholar who has taught Constitutional Law at University of Chicago School. You don’t work to get a doctorate in Constitutional Law to work in that field the rest of your life because you hate the Constitution. Thimk. (sic.)
    You aren’t thinking OR doing your homework. You aren’t taking America seriously. You have no business blathering hate and unsubstantiated hearsay under those circumstances. You are chump bait, Brian. Use your head. The people who have you thinking, scratch that, feeling–that Obama is racist are the racists. But worst yet, they are dishonest with you. They make millions off people who don’t like change. But things do change.
    For the first time in decades Israel is considering dropping the West Bank Settlements.
    Korea just released our Journalists and are coming back to talk about dropping their nuclear ambitions.
    Russia is working with us on missile control and nuclear disarmament.
    We are leaving Iraq and I’m sure we got concessions from them George B. only dreamed about. He kept dragging the war out insisting Iraq give us their oil. They never did. They are better camel salesmen that he was but he arrogantly kept trying to bully them.
    Iran is seeing the end of their tyrannical regime precisely because Obama proved to the Iranian people, despite what their leaders have been telling them, that the US is not meddling there.
    Obama is also working rationally through the Guantanamo crap.
    We have the best relationship with Cuba we’ve had since before Castro.
    Everyone in the world except our Republicans have nothing but praise for Obama’s foreign policies. They blew it but they don’t want you to believe that even if they have no credibility at all.
    Check out all the Time Lines you have mentioned and you will see who has really done the things the Repos are blaming Obama for. And do your homework.

    Pat

  • http://none Pat Mencke

    Brian: Please show me where Obama says the Constitution is “a out-dated document.”
    Thanks.
    Pat

  • Smilee

    factcheck.org just put out a release on the HR3200 health care bill. They had been asked to check out 48 claims about it mostly being circulated through emails but also many other places including some that are found here. They checked the claims against the actual bill as it is written now and this is what they found, 26 claims where found to be totally false, 18 were misleading or half truths and only four where true. The claims being made about a whole lot of misinformation being out there apparently are true and of those that I have personally read I came to the same conclusion they did. The News Hour last night also had a segment and looked at five claims and all were not true. WE are living amongst a lot of lairs and this is too important to not find out the truth for yourselves. You can see the details on all 48 at:

    http://factcheck.org/2009/08/t…..t-hr-3200/

    or you can go on the house site and read it yourself and you will also find this to be true.

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