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Hawaii Legislature Approves Same-Sex Civil Unions

February 21, 2011 by  

Hawaii legislature approves same-sex civil unionsHawaii has moved one step closer to becoming the seventh State to allow civil unions for same-sex couples.

On Feb. 16, lawmakers in Honolulu voted to approve the measure that would grant gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender couples many of the same rights of traditional unions without authorizing marriage itself. Five States and the District of Columbia allow same-sex marriages.

The civil unions bill now heads to the desk of Democratic Governor Neil Abercrombie who has pledged to sign the measure, according to The Associated Press. If it is signed into law, same-sex civil unions will become legal in Hawaii beginning on Jan. 1, 2012.

Although many residents were overjoyed by the recent vote — some were moved to tears — there are critics of the legislation, as well. Opponents of same-sex unions believe that the new law may erode the concept of the traditional family.

"I feel very grieved for all of us. Now we'll need God even more in our islands," Stephanie Kon of Honolulu told the news provider.

According to The New York Times, the moment may be approaching when President Barack Obama has to take an official stance on the same-sex marriage issue. Two new lawsuits out of Connecticut and New York are challenging the Constitutionality of the Defense of Marriage Act, which was passed in 1996 and denies gay couples the Federal benefits that are granted to straight couples.

The President's administration must file an official response to these lawsuits by March 11, the news provider reported.

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  • PieJon

    Yes, it will erode tradition marriage by letting heterosexuals be joined legally together by civil unions rather than marriage. See what happens when you try to keep all people from enjoying marriage, it backfires in your face. Marriage is not far behind for homosexuals. All the energy we are spending on this issue could be better used elsewhere. You can’t tell grown adults who they can and cannot love, only Republicans can.

    • Robert Smith

      Besides, separate but “equal” doesn’t work. It’s simply another branch of hateful bigetry.

      Rob

  • newspooner

    The worst situation would be to let government redefine marriage. For centuries, marriage has been defined by society as a whole, not just by government. If government can get away with redefing marriage, then it can get away with anything, and all freedom will be lost. Government is out of control at all levels.

    • 45caliber

      When the Branch Davidians were killed at Waco there was some outcry about the government getting involved with a religion. Some government spokesman at the time stated that the government couldn’t interfere with “religion” but could interfere with “cults”. When asked what the difference was, the spokesman answered, “We are the ones who decide which is which.”

      Coupled with the city of San Francisco attacking the Catholic Church this last week, I believe that ALL religions are under attack by the government on things like marriage, etc. And that is forbidden by the Constitution. No where in the Constitution does it say the government can make a decision what is religion and what isn’t.

      • karolyn

        So that means that Joe Schmoe can come up with his own religion and be exempt from paying taxes?

        • 45caliber

          Many do now. The government considers voodoo a religion in some areas of the country although I don’t know if they allow their tax deductions. On the other hand, I’d prefer to allow some nut to get by on taxes rather than require bonifide religions to pay taxes. That’s why they are exempt; taxing gives control.

          • Robert Smith

            Let’s watch 45 show his ignorance again. Actually he’s letting us know. Regarding voodooism: “I don’t know if they allow their tax deductions.”

            Tax status isn’t determied by what the religion or organization believes. Tax status is determined by their 501c3 status.

            For example the ASC (Astrological Society of CT) at http://www.myasc.org/ is a 501c3 and contributions to it are deductable.

            Rob

        • Pete

          Karolyn,

          That’s an invalid question … How about this ?

          Shouldn’t the government hold a telethon if they need extra money ?

      • Robert Smith

        Hey 45… You said: “And that is forbidden by the Constitution. No where in the Constitution does it say the government can make a decision what is religion and what isn’t.”

        Many law enforcement agencies use the “Advanced Bonewits’ Cult Danger Evaluation Frame” or the “ABCDEF”. It’s from thelate 1970′s. Since then it has allowed law enforcement to establish a firm basis on whether or not to investigate something as a cult.

        It is as follows:

        Rob

        1 Internal Control: Amount of internal political and social power exercised by leader(s) over members; lack of clearly defined organizational rights for members. 1 _________________________

        2 External Control: Amount of external political and social influence desired or obtained; emphasis on directing members’ external political and social behavior. 2 _________________________

        3 Wisdom/Knowledge Claimed by leader(s); amount of infallibility declared or implied about decisions or doctrinal/scriptural interpretations; number and degree of unverified and/or unverifiable credentials claimed. 3 _________________________

        4 Wisdom/Knowledge Credited to leader(s) by members; amount of trust in decisions or doctrinal/scriptural interpretations made by leader(s); amount of hostility by members towards internal or external critics and/or towards verification efforts. 4 _________________________

        5 Dogma: Rigidity of reality concepts taught; amount of doctrinal inflexibility or “fundamentalism;” hostility towards relativism and situationalism. 5 _________________________

        6 Recruiting: Emphasis put on attracting new members; amount of proselytizing; requirement for all members to bring in new ones. 6 _________________________

        7 Front Groups: Number of subsidiary groups using different names from that of main group, especially when connections are hidden. 7 _________________________

        8 Wealth: Amount of money and/or property desired or obtained by group; emphasis on members’ donations; economic lifestyle of leader(s) compared to ordinary members. 8 _________________________

        9 Sexual Manipulation of members by leader(s) of non-tantric groups; amount of control exercised over sexuality of members in terms of sexual orientation, behavior, and/or choice of partners. 9 _________________________

        10 Sexual Favoritism: Advancement or preferential treatment dependent upon sexual activity with the leader(s) of non-tantric groups. 10 _________________________

        11 Censorship: Amount of control over members’ access to outside opinions on group, its doctrines or leader(s). 11 _________________________

        12 Isolation: Amount of effort to keep members from communicating with non-members, including family, friends and lovers. 12 _________________________

        13 Dropout Control: Intensity of efforts directed at preventing or returning dropouts. 13 _________________________

        14 Violence: Amount of approval when used by or for the group, its doctrines or leader(s). 14 _________________________

        15 Paranoia: Amount of fear concerning real or imagined enemies; exaggeration of perceived power of opponents; prevalence of conspiracy theories. 15 _________________________

        16 Grimness: Amount of disapproval concerning jokes about the group, its doctrines or its leader(s). 16 _________________________

        17 Surrender of Will: Amount of emphasis on members not having to be responsible for personal decisions; degree of individual disempowerment created by the group, its doctrines or its leader(s). 17 _________________________

        18 Hypocrisy: amount of approval for actions which the group officially considers immoral or unethical, when done by or for the group, its doctrines or leader(s); willingness to violate the group’s declared principles for political, psychological, social, economic, military, or other gain. 18 _________________________

        • 45caliber

          This isn’t too bad if it is used correctly. But too many ignore actual religions and try to prove they aren’t. I believe Catholicism has been around long enough and has enough members to affirm it is a religion, not a cult.

          • Robert Smith

            Wrong again, 45.

            The church and many extreme right wing religious organizations score in the same range as Scientology.

            The fact is that if the church were new it would be highly suspect. Go through the questions and check it for yourself.

            Rob

          • http://naver samurai

            Wrong again there Rob! Scientology isn’t a Christian denomination. It’s nothing more than a cult that believes in the scientific aspects of life/afterlife and nor the spiritual. 하나님 하고 나라를 위해서! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            That’s not what the Scientologists think.

            BTW, the point was that Scientology and the Church score just about the same on the form.

            Oh BTW, did you run the right wing through the cult evaluation form?

            Rob

          • Pete

            Robert,

            I ran it thru my E-Meter to see what my Thetan would have to say ….

    • Robert Smith

      Shucks newspooner… You posted: “If government can get away with redefing marriage, then it can get away with anything, and all freedom will be lost. Government is out of control at all levels.”

      Before the government got into it “marriage” was defined by a wide assortment of churches and other religious organizations. It was done to get their fingers into the money pie and control royalty.

      Quite frankly I think that is far worse than the CIVIL contract governments can offer.

      I think ALL arrangements made by government should be civil unions. Only religious organizations should do “marriages.” BTW many christian organizations do same sex marriages.

      Rob

      • smithington

        Bob, those “religions”, are christian in name only. Catholicism is of the devil!

        • Robert Smith

          Ah, I see. YOU want to define how everyone worships.

          Interesting. Have you had that desire for very long?

          What gives you the right to lord it over anyone else?

          Ohhhhhhh!!!!!!! I get it! I’ll bet you will answer that YOUR interpritation of your christian bible is the only one and all should follow your version. Am I close?

          Rob

          • smithington

            Bob, take it up with God, not me. He will be your final judge.

          • Robert Smith

            Nope, don’t believe in such a hateful god. He won’t be judging me for anything.

            How can you live in such fear of your god?

            Rob

          • karolyn

            That is the only way religion can keep people in line is by appealing to their fear of a vengeful, jealous God. My God is no such thing. My God is Universal intelligence and is all about love and acceptance and peace.

        • karolyn

          Christianity is the religion; catholocism is a denomination of the christian religion. Sounds to me like if anyone was of the devil, it would be you.

          • libertytrain

            :)

      • Pete

        Robert,

        Your rationality is wrong. When the government defines what marriage is they are violating the separation of church and state….

        If you enter into a contract you reap whatever ….it could be good or bad….

        Causality … A “Civil Union” is just more government nonsense ?

        Heaven or Hades, this life and/or the next, you “reap” what you “sow” … HA HA

        • Robert Smith

          Hi Pete,

          You posted: “When the government defines what marriage is they are violating the separation of church and state…”

          Actually the marriage contract is a CIVIL contract between two people. Atheists can be married with no mention of god.

          The right wing has no claim on the word “marriage.”

          Rob

    • James

      Newspooner, five states and the District of Columbia have already done that. Read the article.

    • Oahu Jim

      Marriage has not been a state institution for longer than a hundred years, so don’t think of it as any longer. In any case, only the lawyers win out, not Jesus.

  • B. Holmes

    Hawaii will be hurt when tourists are repulsed by the hand-holding sissies walking around trying to seduce their young boys. The reputation will soon get around. Only a psychiatrist and God can help them.

    • Doc Sarvis

      A very small percentage of homosexuals go after our youth. The VERY SAME is true for the numbers of heterosexuals that prey on our youth. In both populations that is abhorent behavior, punishable by law, and punished when detected by law enforcement.

      San Francisco, Miami, and many other places across our country and other parts of the world known to be open to the homosexual lifestyle have not seemed to have any problem in the tourism industry. I think Hawaii will do just fine, especially since it will be viewed as an even more open and accepting destination. I think that God would be pleased that love is promoted over hate in another corner of our world.

      • 45caliber

        Doc:

        You are a little off on your statements. A small percentage of homos are pediphiles – true. But it is a greater percentage per total homos than is the percentage of non-homos who are pediphiles to the total non-homos. Look it up.

        • Robert Smith

          Look it up? Why should anyone do your homework for you?

          YOU provide proof. Quite frankly I think you made it up and couldn’t find any proof.

          Rob

          • http://naver samurai

            Then you prove it, moron! 하나님 하고 나라를 위해서! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            There’s samurai with things backwards again.

            Looks to me like you are high on demands for others to prove your claims. Have faith, samurai.

            Or, take a few moments to prove your brutal god is right, if it exists. You seem to take so much authrority from your invisible god.

            Rob

          • Pete

            Robert,

            God is not invisible .. you moron ! The Bible is the record ..
            What More Do You Want ! God gave us the Bible !

            Jesus wasn’t invisible ….

            Your like “Dives” relatives, you won’t believe the Law and the Prophets. Jesus rose from the dead .. Isn’t that enough for you ?

          • Robert Smith

            Hi Samurai,

            More name calling I see.

            Posted: ” Isn’t that enough for you ?”

            No, it isn’t. Santa, the Easter Bunny, and the Tooth Fairy are all false but there is more evidence supporting them than your god.

            Rob

      • James

        Doc Sarvis, God would be pleased? Leviticus 20:13 reads: “If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.” What planet are you from?

        • Robert Smith

          James, not everyone subscribes to your fairy tail.

          BTW, killed any kids lately for mouthing off?

          Worn any blended fabrics?

          Eaten a cheeseburger? Why aren’t you picketing McDonald’s lie an abortion clinic?

          Ohhhhh, I get it, you only picked the hateful verses you can use to bully others with.

          Rob

          • http://naver samurai

            Same baseless lies, moron! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Robert Smith

            Gee samuray,

            Do you deny that cheesburgers, blended fabrics, kids mouthing off, and all sorts of other “sins” are noted in laviticus?

            Then that stuf about gays isn’t real either.

            Thus, you can’t use your bible babble to condemn gays.

            Thanks for clearing that up, samurai.

            Rob

          • Robert Smith

            BTW, from samurai: “moron!”

            Again, an official complaint about samurai. Why does he get a pass on all his namcalling?

            From the guidelines at the top of this thread: “Please don’t stoop to name calling.”

            Seems to me like the rules are “special” for his point of view.

            Rob

          • Pete

            Robert,

            Your an idiot ! Some of those commandments are for the Jews. We aren’t all the chosen ! Some of us are Goyim !

            But the commandment against homosexuality is for the Gentiles also. That’s what the Apostle Paul says in his Epistles. James affirms that command at the Council of Jerusalem in the Book of Acts ….

            And don’t forget Sodom and Gomorrah, their were no Jews around then, just the gentile Lot and the gentile Abraham … Jacob wasn’t born yet…

            In the case against homosexuality, what is good for the goose (Jew) is also good for the gander (Gentile) …

            My apologies to any Rabbi’s for being such a goyishacupa ! But this Gentile will wear a yamulke for a few minutes hoping he get’s some more smarts !!

          • Robert Smith

            “But the commandment against homosexuality is for the Gentiles also.”

            Ah, a cafiteria christian. Apparently you just pick what you can be hateful with and go forth and bully from there.

            Rob

          • James

            Robert S., I was refuting Doc Sarvis’ ‘God would be pleased,’ with what saith the Lord. The Bible isn’t MY “fairy tale.” And I do oppose the Roe v. Wade decision, because the U.S. Supreme Court had no constitutional authority to hear it.

          • James

            Robert S., God’s Law was given to Moses on Mt. Sinai, it only aplies to the descendents of Abraham through his son Isaac, and Isaac’s son Jacob/Israel. When Gentiles live among them, they are required to keep Gods Law also, but Israelites were never instructed to enforce that law around the world.

      • csmith

        And you are saying that homosexuality isn’t aberrant behavior? What is the difference? It is so against the norm unless you are homosexual. Odd that anyone would choose non procreation over procreation. I say enjoy what ever you want just keep it where it belongs, in the bedroom.

    • karolyn

      Get real! Do you think that they’ll be holding hands more just because they’re married. Ridiculous statement! Gays are not all predators! They are just like you and me. They want the same things we want – love, peace, freedom and acceptance. They are children of God, as are we all.

      • JohnK

        I am sorry that you have no true knowledge of the Bible. Jesus, Himself, even says that there are the children of God , and the children of the devil.
        Not all are children of God, only those who are obedient to His Word. Please stop lying to the masses.
        Thank you

        • karolyn

          Joh, Your interpretation of the Bible and God’s word is not the only interpretation.

          • JohnK

            It is not my words, do a search of the Bible yourself. Jesus makes a clear distinction that there are children of the devil.

          • Robert Smith

            “Jesus makes a clear distinction that there are children of the devil.”

            But he was silent on the subject of gays. He could not have been referincing them.

            Rob

          • 45caliber

            Rob:

            Rriiigghhhtttt … Keep believing in that if you wish. I’ll stick with what God and Jesus had to say in BOTH books of the Bible. Leaving something out in one place in the Bible is not justification that it is okay to do.

          • karolyn

            It’s all in the interpretation. We’ve been through this before, and I’ve posted before cites where it can be interpreted that Sodom and Gomorrha wre not condemned because of gays but because of their worship of false gods. If I have time, I will search them out again and post. The old testament is a fairytale anyway, written allegorically.

          • 45caliber

            karolyn:

            You said that the various stories in the Bible aren’t true – they are only stories. I’ve even heard some say that David never existed – yet they have now found ancient proof in another country of David. I’m not certain, but I believe they have found some of the ruins of either Soddom or Ghimora. So I can’t believe that this book is made up only of stories instead of history. If you believe so, I feel sorry for you.

          • Robert Smith

            45, your “blief” doesn’t make something a fact.

            Let’s watch him try to get some credibility out of his “belief”: “I believe they have found some of the ruins of either Soddom or Ghimora.”

            Really. You know that my spelling isn’t that great but since it has been brought up by others let me correct you.

            It’s Sodom and Gomorrah.

            Rob

          • Pete

            Robert,

            Jesus gave the Law to Moses ..You idiot !

        • smithington

          Actually, it is only those who have accepted Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Saviour who are God’s children. By God’s grace, through faith ALONE in WHO Christ is (God manifest in the flesh) and WHAT Jesus did on the cross (for those who believe) is anybody truly saved. Not by keeping God’s commands are we saved – not by law or religion. Practicing homosexuals will have their place in the lake of fire.

          • JohnK

            I stand corrected.
            Thank you :D

          • Robert Smith

            And you smile about eternal hell for someone. That kinda looks unchristian to me.

            Rob

          • smithington

            Bob, I do not make that statement with ANY kind of smile, nor do I think any TRUE Christian does. We do it with tears my friend and state it as Biblical truth. Everyone has the freedom to accept God’s Word or ignore it… at their own peril.

          • Robert Smith

            Oh, I guess :-)isn’t a smile.

            Rob

          • Robert Smith

            Posted: ” Everyone has the freedom to accept God’s Word or ignore it…”

            I choose to ignor it.

            You have absolutely no say in that unless you are working towards the American talaban version of christanity. If you point a gun at me to convert I’ll lie and go my own happy way.

            BTW, don’t you know that imposing your religion upon another is un-American?

            Rob

          • smithington

            Bob, you have the total freedom to ignore God’s Word. I am not trying to impose my belief on anyone. But I do have the freedom to express my belief about what is true and good, just as you have the freedom to express your belief

          • Robert Smith

            I still choose to ignore your hateful bullying god.

            Rob

          • karolyn

            So YOU say.

          • Pete

            That’s a relief ! You sure would turn Heaven into Hell !

      • 45caliber

        Many do. But some want love to include sex with children as well. SInce the percentage of those who do want children are much higher among homos than among non-homos people don’t want them around children.

        Take the recent case where a man “adopted” a black male child. He then had sex with the child and tried to rent out the boy to others. (As far as I’m concerned, the death penalty should apply.) The press made a big thing of it. So people fear.

        • Robert Smith

          45 says in a rediculious statement without any proof: “But some want love to include sex with children as well.”

          I’ll bet that percentage is less than for priests, but since you haven’t offered any proof for your bogus claim I won’t either.

          Rob

          • 45caliber

            Really? No proof? That seems to be an argument by gays and libs alike. Read any newspaper or watch the tv news for a week or so. You will generally hear of at least one case during that week – particularly if you bother to read. (I know the tv news prefers to ignore such stories since they aren’t PC.)

          • Robert Smith

            Still no proof from 45.

          • Robert Smith

            More empty claims from 45.

            You haven’t proven anything to me except that you have an active imagination.

            Rob

          • Pete

            Robert,

            Here you go again. If a Priest is Gay he’s going to Hades ! Their isn’t an exception !

            Your crazy Robert ! Start taking some vitamins or something ….

        • karolyn

          45 – You said “SInce the percentage of those who do want children are much higher among homos than among non-homos people don’t want them around children.” Can you prove that the percentage is as you say? I think not. Please! I’ve heard hetero men talking about young girls. Men are men. Gay men like young boys just as hetero men like young girls, but it doesn’t mean they all act on it, and you can’t say that one acts on it more than the other. Look at all the old geezers that are caught in online stings with young teenagers!

          • Robert Smith

            Some get caught twice on that TV program.

            Rob

          • 45caliber

            There have been some documentation of percentages. There is a difference. Homos are roughly four times more likely to be a pediphile as a non-homo – when compared strictly to their own ranks. As I’ve said elsewhere, if you want proof, look it up. I’m not going to waste my time looking up some facts that you and others won’t believe anyway. I’ve got other things to do that are more important to me. Those who have no intention of believing are not important to me. I do agree that some hetros are also pediphiles and they do outnumber the homo pediphiles. Of course, the number of hetros outnumber the homos anyway.

          • Robert Smith

            Don’t waste your time with facts.

            BTW your claims are worth nothing without them.

            BELIEVE! And you will see. Is that your theory, 45?

            Meanwhile I don’t see squat.

            Rob

      • James

        Karolyn, May be, but read my biblical quote above. God wants them removed from His kingdom here.

        • Robert Smith

          What qualifies you to speak for any god, James?

          Even a brutal hateful god would have some sort of qualification.

          Rob

          • James

            Robert S., The Bible says if one sees his brother sin without realizing he is violating God’s Law, one should remind him of it, lest he be held accountable for it. In our system, “Ignorance of the law is no excuse,” but there is no requirement for others to remind someone he is breaking a law.

    • JohnK

      I think most psychs are anti-God and more secular humanists. So, actually, only God’s intervention can help now.

    • Robert Smith

      B. Holmes says: “Hawaii will be hurt when tourists are repulsed by the hand-holding sissies walking around trying to seduce their young boys…”

      Yup. I’m sure they will be repulsed just as folks are convinced that priests will rape their kids. Too bad the priests are real and gays generally aren’t pediaphiles.

      Why do you lie and suggest that gays are pedophiles?

      Rob

    • Pete

      YOU BREEDERS ! DARN HETEROSEXUALS !

      Something like that – just like in Mass when the gays takeover Cape Cod …..

  • Justin

    This article has some mistakes. There are people against the wordage and those against the practice and both. Marriage is defined as a civil union between a man a woman (man and woman stemming from a biological definition not legal definition – legal lies). So a gay marriage (gay meaning -although incorrect- is homosexual) is impossible by definition. While a civil union is a union between people so civil union contains both marriage (man and woman) and any other combination. The way I see it is religion objects to the redefining the meaning of marriage. They may object to the civil union also but they have not protest against civil union just the term marriage used incorrectly. So the courts need to get the government out of the marriage business (a religious event) and into the civil union business (evil government always want to take money from whatever they can take it from).So the homosexuals are fighting the wrong battle…they need to have the term civil union replace the term marriage in government laws and not change definition.

    • 45caliber

      The way I see it, a civil union is a contract between the government and people. A marriage is a covenant between a man, a woman, and God. Any marriage can be considered a civil union but all civil unions are NOT marriages. Since the government is not God (despite what many like to think) then they have no right to state what is a marriage and what is not.

      • Robert Smith

        From 45: ” A marriage is a covenant between a man, a woman, and God.”

        And a man and a man, and a woman and a woman. Remember, many religions, including some christian, bless such unions.

        Rob

        • 45caliber

          I noticed you didn’t say “and God”. Because it isn’t. You seem to be leaving that out. A civil union is between two people. A marriage is between two people and God.

          • Robert Smith

            No, wrong again 45. Even atheists can get married and be married in the eyes of our government(s).

            They get to file jointly and everything. They are treated better than christian gays.

            Rob

          • Pete

            Robert,

            I didn’t know the government had the power of the Creator. When was the last time your Congressman created a woman, like God created Eve ?

        • 45caliber

          Rob:

          Some religions do bless gay unions. That is their problem – or blessing if you prefer. And I suspect there are going to be some religions leaders who will be finding out they were wrong to do so – but that’s my own opinion. We even had a bishop in my own religion state that there is only a “goodness” in the universe and that when we die the goodness in each of us (varying with the person) would join with the whole. That isn’t what I’d call a Christian belief. And it isn’t what the Bible calls a Christian belief either.

          • Robert Smith

            Sorry 45, but you don’t get to define religion, even christanity, for anyone but yourself.

            BTW, do you paticipate in that ritualistic canabalism?

            Do you know where I can find a very small electric chair? I’d like to put it on a chain around my neck. If christians can wear an execution device I think others should be able to also. A noose just seems a bit much for me though. A chair will do just fine.

            Maybe I can find one at a doll house store. What do you think?

            I think I’ll go enjoy a cheeseburger for dinner now. I understand that’s banned in your bible. I’ll bet you will advocate that I be killed or that I’ll suffer if I eat it, just like gays will in hell. Oh well, your religion doesn’t apply to me any more than it does to them. Ta Ta… I’m off to dinner.

            Rob

          • Pete

            Robert,

            Who would want you in Heaven ? You probably just ruin it for everyone else …

    • Robert Smith

      Hi Justin. You posted: “So the courts need to get the government out of the marriage business (a religious event) and into the civil union business (evil government always want to take money from whatever they can take it from)”

      Let’s see. Marriage lisence is what????? Maybe $50.

      How much does a priest get? How much do most couples spend to get hitched in a church?

      Looks to me like it is religion that is trying to get the green from merriage.

      Rob

  • http://charden@neo.rr.com Charles

    Boy, aren`t we glad we let Hawaii become a state. Just what we
    need, another state of flame burners.!!!!!!!!!

    • JohnK

      Actually, another state with corrupt politicians. Back in the 90′s, an overwhelming majority of Hawai’i(over 70%) voted gay marriage down. Guess what, the politicians here don’t care what the Hawaiian people say nor how they voted.

      • karolyn

        The people’s opinion should have nothing to do with individual’s rights. Everyone should have the same rights no matter what their sexual orientation.

        • JohnK

          So if their love is so strong, how come they didn’t move to a state that allows it?

          • Robert Smith

            What about the Constitutional right of equality under law don’t you understand?

            That applies to ALL of America.

            Rob

          • Pete

            When God destroys America because we allowed Homosexuality, wouldn’t that have a impact on me ? Will I die too ?

            For the record, homosexuality is wrong. OK ? Not allowing it is good for my survival …

            Why should I perish because you want to be gay ?

          • Robert Smith

            From Peter: “Not allowing it is good for my survival …”

            Explain how? How has America been diminished by allowing people who love each other be together in a loving partnership?

            Now, hate I can clearly see how America is diminished. The unequality, un-American effort to diminish others and keep qualified people out of our military… That hurts America.

            Rob

        • 45caliber

          I have no problem with everyone having the same rights under LAW. I do have a real problem with people insisting that religions must be changed to accomodate them. Religions are NOT man’s business to change. If the state wants to give gays the same rights under civil law as granted to married couples, fine. If they try to insist that religions MUST change their rules of marriage to accept practicing gays then I have a real problem.

          • Robert Smith

            From 45: “I do have a real problem with people insisting that religions must be changed to accomodate them.”

            Nobody has suggested any changes to religions over this. What religions have done is try to inject their rules into our governmnt.

            BTW, many christian organizations perform same sex civil unions and marriages. You can look up Bishop Spong and see what that christian says about it. I’ll bet it might be interesting for you to look at a version of christanity without hate.

            Rob

          • 45caliber

            Rob:

            I already know about Bishop Sprong. And I know that the American church is going through a big upheaval because of her. She is driving far more people from her church than she is bringing in. Is that right? I do believe Paul said that even if something might be right doesn’t making it the right thing to do if it drives Christians away.

          • karolyn

            I haven’t see anyone trying to make religions change other than some people within those denominations, as in the Episcopalians.

          • Robert Smith

            You know NOTHING about Bishop Spong.

            Information about John Shelby Spong can be found at: http://johnshelbyspong.com/

            But again, thanks for demonstrating just how bankrupt you are of facts. And, thanks for the demonstration about how you just make things up.

            Rob

          • 45caliber

            Evidently I got your friend mixed up with the bishop of the Episcipalians … who is a “she”.

          • Robert Smith

            It appears you spend a lot of time mixed up 45.

            Maybe you should just stick to thinking for yourself rather than letting your religious leaders tell you what to believe and they follow their little efforts to control the rest of us Americans.

            Rob

          • Pete

            Bishop Spong is an idiot. You got to be kidding ! Bishop Spong ! HA HA HA !

          • Pete

            Bishop Spong is more mentally “challenged” than you are ….

        • 45caliber

          karolyn:

          First, I have to say that I have no problem with everyone gettting the same rights. But … I seem to remember you a few days ago insisting that we should have a Democratic government where everyone votes and the majority rules. Now you are saying just the opposite. Odd.

          • karolyn

            I believe that was in reference to the Egyptians and was with regard to deciding how they want to live. I don’t think it odd at all that I would wish freedom for the Egyptian people who appear to be overwhelmingly in favor of a democracy, while wishing for gays that their rights be established just like everybody else’s.

          • 45caliber

            karolyn:

            If there must be majority rule in one thing, why does other things be exempt? Who is it that determines what a majority can decide and what it cannot? Dictators love things like that since they insure they are the ones to make that distinction.

          • Robert Smith

            From 45: “Who is it that determines what a majority can decide and what it cannot?”

            It’s called the Supreme Court of the United States.

            Rights can’t be voted away.

            Do you propose that we put slavery to a vote in the South?

            Rob

          • Pete

            The SUPREME COURT of the USA Proposes ….

            BUT GOD DISPOSES …..

            Not to “Supreme” your “Court” … HA HA HA !

      • Doc Sarvis

        A lot has happened since the 1990′s. Many more people now understand that homosexuals are just like everyone else in all important ways.

        • JohnK

          Instead of “backdooring” this piece of legislation, why didn’t they put the vote to the people again, if what you are saying is true. The truth is that the votes would end up being the same. Backdooring it is the only way this will ever happen.

          • Robert Smith

            From John: “why didn’t they put the vote to the people again, if what you are saying is true.”

            I’ll bet you would like to put slavery to a vote too.

            You can’t vote rights and equality away from people. That’s clearly un-American.

            Rob

        • Pete

          Doc Sarvis,

          What does that mean ?
          Doc, you must be on another planet and the communication got garbled (?)
          Did you want to restate your “statement” ?

    • karolyn

      Amother ridiculous remark!

  • smithington

    Continued encouragement and approval of deviant homosexual and lesbian behavior will be the death knell of our country. Save your comments. You will see, time will tell. BE WARNED!

    • Doc Sarvis

      There is deviant sexual behavior among a minority of the homosexual AND heterosexual population. It is the loving/caring behavior between two consenting adults that should be celebrated, encouraged, rewarded, and given the same legal advantages across the homosexual and heterosexual spectrum.

      • smithington

        My point was that ALL homosexual behavior is deviant, no matter how pretty you want to try and paint that picture. I do not condone deviant sexual behavior in heterosexuals.

        • Robert Smith

          from smithington: “My point was that ALL homosexual behavior is deviant,”

          According to YOUR religion. Others in America think differently.

          I find it very sad that you don’t tolerate something different in America. I consideer that to be un-American.

          Rob

    • Pete

      Smithington,

      Actually we all are getting punished right now — grids, oops ! I mean AIDS .. sorry for the political incorrectness… The Red Cross takes care of the blood supply.

      A soldier in combat who needs a transfusion shouldn’t worry (?) ..

      And that’s just from causality, a Lockean Moral Law in Nature. Or a Divine punishment ?

      Like I said before, why does the government want to get God mad at us ? I thought governments job was to protect life ? WHy do I have to die because someone is gay ?

  • 45caliber

    I don’t care about a government system to give gay couples the same rights under law as a married couple. That is simply a contract between the government and people.

    I do very much care about any government involvement in marriage – an institute between man, woman, and God. That is government involvement in religion and it cannot not be done under the Constitution.

    • Robert Smith

      Awwww 45, there you go twisting things again: ” That is government involvement in religion and it cannot not be done under the Constitution.”

      It is religious organizations that for the most part are opposed to same sex merriae. THEY are the ones trying to define marriage.

      Clue: Even atheists can marry in America. “Marriage” is the contract offered by the government. Churches can define their version of marriage if they want to but they don’t own the language.

      BTW, some christian churches do offer same sex union, marriage, and civil contracts their blessing.

      Not eve christians agree on gays marrying. Who is to say which religious organization is right?

      Rob

      • 45caliber

        Sorry but GOD was the founder of marriages. And if you attend many weddings you will hear the preacher/minister/priest state that marriage is a covenant between a man, a woman, and God. So GOD is where this comes from. I realize you don’t believe in God but it still means you can’t step in and change religions to what you want – the very thing you insist that you aren’t trying to do.

        • karolyn

          Interesting Article “Did God Create Marriage?” – I think not!

          http://www.bilerico.com/2008/11/did_god_create_marriage.php

        • Robert Smith

          Here goes 45 again: “Sorry but GOD was the founder of marriages.”

          Actually “he” wasn’t. Marriage was around long before your brutal christian god.

          The church got into marriage for control and the money.

          Rob

          • 45caliber

            Boy, are you OFF!!

            God existed before man – a long time before man! So your arguement is void right there! What you are trying to say is that man created God, not the other way around. No wonder you are so sure that religions can be changed on a whim.

          • Robert Smith

            It appears you really in hard core denia, 45.

            Note: Not everyone believes in your brutal and hateful god. It isn’t even a matter of debate for me that he may have been around before or after mankind.

            Why can’t you understand that others aren’t in and don’t want to be down your little rat hole of hateful and bigeted religion?

            Rob

          • karolyn

            45 – You said “God existed before man – a long time before man!” What a ridiculous statement! God is and always was! WE are God. WE are extensions of God, so we are God.

  • Robert Smith

    From the article: “Opponents of same-sex unions believe that the new law may erode the concept of the traditional family.”

    How?

    Will such a law change how you relate to your spouse?

    Will such a law change how your kids grow up? (If Dick Chaney couldn’t get it right what kind of a law will it take to stop kids from going to the “other side”?

    Are you worried that your wife will leave you for the German Sheppard next door?

    Just what is it that scares you so much?

    Rob

    • Robert Smith

      Yup, just as I figured. There ARE no reasons to deny gays equality. The “harm” is simply made up.

      That appears to be the way hate works. No evidence, just claims.

      Rob

    • Pete

      Sodom and Gomorrah… you twit ! I don’t want to be on the receiving end of all that fire and brimstone …just for starters.

      Robert, It’s OK with me if you don’t want to follow Jesus ! I’m a bad Christian for saying that ? No, I’m just a different kind of CHristian…

      Let me explain, Homosexuality is something like the Ebola Virus – the problem with you is you purposefully want to be infected …

      I always say “BETTER TO SERVE IN HEAVEN, THEN RULE IN HELL ..”

      Hey, suicide is painless, it brings on many changes – Mr. Ebola Gay man !

  • jopa

    Same sex civil unions fine.I just don’t get when the Catholic church pays out millions upon millions for the actions of their pedophile priests.The worshippers pay the fines basically and the pedophile priest gets a promotion to a spot in Vatican City.Why are they not in prison or is it too harsh for these men of the word.A young male would be safer at a gay pride parade than at a Catholic Church.It is just a matter of time and same sex civil unions will be permissible in all states.Some people just have too many hangups and like to put their nose in other peoples business.

    • Robert Smith

      From jopa: “Some people just have too many hangups and like to put their nose in other peoples business.”

      My guess is that it is boring not thinking for one’s self (even though the christian god of some hateful folks gave us free will). They need to try to live the lives of others.

      That’s why the theory that some homophobes are really homexual and they are denying in others what they hate in themselves.

      Rob

      • karolyn

        I totally believe this Robert. I’ve actually seen it in operation. It would be amazing what we would find out if people were really gut honest.

        • Robert Smith

          Like that republican in the airport bathroom with a “wide stance.”

          Like several televangelists.

          Rob

  • Marc Rich

    Listen to you people. Look at your hateful words. How can you call yourself Christian. Shame on you. Bring Jesus and love into your heart and you will be redeemed. You are not walking this earth to bring hate you are hear to love.

    • Robert Smith

      Hi Marc,

      Bishop Spong’s version of christanity is one I can respect.

      Rob

    • smithington

      If you love someone, will you tell them the truth, even if they find it “hateful”?

      • 45caliber

        Isn’t it “hateful” to tell some criminal that he was wrong to rob and beat the little old lady down the street? Just because he might consider that hateful, it still doesn’t mean that what he did was right, does it? Yet it seems some like Rob seem to think so when they are the ones who are doing the wrong things.

        • Robert Smith

          From 45: “Isn’t it “hateful” to tell some criminal that he was wrong to rob and beat the little old lady down the street?”

          Actually most of the police I know get a great deal of satisfaction from putting real criminals in their place.

          “Just because he might consider that hateful, it still doesn’t mean that what he did was right, does it?”

          Let’s see… You are attempting to equate stealing and beating up little old ladies with not believing in your brutal god? Clue: Muggers show up in line-ups every day. Your god hasn’t shown up in at least a couple of thousand years (if then).

          How dare you accuse someone of being bad simply becase they don’t believe in your brutal and hateful god.

          “Yet it seems some like Rob seem to think so when they are the ones who are doing the wrong things.”

          I’m NOT doing anything “wrong” by not believing in your brutal god (if he is real) or pointing out his crimes against humanity.

          Rob

          • smithington

            Rob, maybe there is hope for you after all. At least you admit that you don’t know for SURE if God exists, rather than to outright deny Him. Why do atheists get so angry at something they don’t even think exists??

          • Pete

            Hey Robert,

            Fine with me, who would want you around ? You are like Nimrod the Apostate !
            You won’t change Robert ! Do you hear me Smithington and the rest of you dummies !

            He’ll just ruin Heaven, and the New Earth, people like him will just ruin eternity for the rest of us.

            We got enough problems just getting to the “Celestial City”…

            Hey Robert, You just got your “Engraved Invitation” what else do you want ?

            Or to put it more specifically “WHAT IS YOUR ARGUMENT ?”

  • newspooner

    Wow, a whole crop of new issues have come up in the past few decades that we should not even have to fight about (abortion, misdefining marriage, nany-state, etc). Does anyone else understand that this has been largely a deliberate program to dilute the efforts of freedom-loving patriots, so that there is less opposition to the destruction of critically important freedoms?

    • 45caliber

      You are correct. It is also their goal to destroy the morals of the people who believe in religion since ALL religions are based on some type of morals. I believe it is primarily due to their desire to do whatever they wish and have people believe they are okay doing it.

      • karolyn

        And you believe that gays can’t be moral and religious? Well, I know at least one Christian, conservative gay man, who is very moral.

        • 45caliber

          Really? Does he follow all the morals as listed as laws in the Bible? If he does, then he is very good. If he doesn’t then that is a call for Jesus who will be the judge of those who go to heaven and who don’t. And, before you insist that Jesus is going to pardon all sins automatically, go back and do some more reading. Yes, Jesus pardonned sins. Then he told them, “Go and sin no more.”

          No person can decide what is a sin and what isn’t – for himself or for others. We are too much of the world. That’s why morals we are supposed to follow are listed by another – God.

        • http://charden@neo.rr.com Charles

          Karolyn,
          How do you know your gay man is moral? Are you with him when
          he is out with his male friends. I will say, I know a few nice gay
          men and women. They are very nice to people, even straight people.Nice,
          yes,moral I don`t know. You would have to ask them.

          • SWFL Mom

            I am so tired of reading our country, and Christianity. First of all The “founding fathers” were Deists. They were NOT Christians. They would be appalled at how the churches, synagogues, mosques, etc. have their hands so far up the government’s bums. Consider this also, this country was in NO WAY a Christian country first. My tribe was more than OK with same sex marriages, opposite gender roles, and they did so long before anyone stepped onto this land. Please do not preach about one issues of same sex marriage, when Christians have no problems with the mass genocide that was caused upon the people here in the name of their GOD. Are you really that worried about a few people that love each other, and want the same inalienable rights as everyone else? This is the one topic in your man written doctrine that you hit upon. But I never see anyone bring up the following: However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT). Slavery in the NT was just peachy keen, and still exists. Waste more energy on that. The story of jesus is no a new one, it just has a different name slapped onto it. The same stories have been passed down starting with the Egyptian god Horus. All the same tales exist with different names. I am so tired of hearing about the bible this, and christian this, blah blah. I also do not want to hear if you do not like it leave, as my people were here first.

          • karolyn

            I am very good freinds with this man. He was in a long-term relationship for 15 years before his partner died. After 2 years, he still mourns his partner, just like anybody else would. He does not hang with a bunch of gay guys, since he lives in a small town in SC, where there is not much, if any, acceptance of gays. He is a pillar of his neighborhood, helping his neighbors even to the point of getting used. He has helped young men straighten out their lives by giving them work and being there for them. He has a family who loves him and who he loves. He is an honest, hard-working businessman. A truly goog guy who is loved by anyone who knows him.

      • Robert Smith

        From 45: “ALL religions are based on some type of morals.”

        Yup. Do you want to talke about one that has its roots in torture and execution?

        Do you want to talk about one that has canabalism as a central part of its worship?

        Do you want to talk about a god that has killed most human beings on Earth just because he got upset about his alleged creation?

        Do you want to talk about a god that took a mulligan and came back in the form of a human being to try to straighten out is mess? And then got into the S&M thing bigtime?

        Your version of christanity looks pretty ugly from the outside, 45.

        Rob

        • Pete

          Y’know Robert,

          The Pre-incarnate Christ led them Israelites to the Promise Land, and He (Jesus – The Son of God) had them kill off most of the inhabitants. It’s all in the Books of Moses and Book of Joshua …

          Soon that same Jesus will defend Israel again … at Armageddon. The Son of God will kill anybody who opposes him – pretty much all the armed forces of planet Earth except for Israel …

          Does that bother you ? I think it’s great …

  • s c

    Amazing. This website occasionally has its finger on America’s political and moral pulse. At other times, the PLND staff seems clueless. Some articles are much closer to feel-good polls than ideas that mirror reality.
    Somehow, the most ‘popular article’ on this website is ‘Gay Marriage Divides GOP (2,441 responses).’ You’d almost think Obummer’s healthcare scam, the economy and our flirtation with perpetual debt are not as important as gay rights issues. Amazing.
    Is there ANYONE out there who sees the extreme irony of what seems to preoccupy the GOP? Between the GOP and RNC, I couldn’t care less if they’re obsessed with gay rights. Between the GOP and the RNC, they’re on the verge of doing to themselves what generations of rabid progressives couldn’t do.
    Dream on, people. If you can’t prioritize and discern, you’re substituting fantasy for reality. If you prefer fantasy to reality, go for it. When you get to the point where polls can’t help you get through the day, just remember that no one forced you to surrender your mind to emotions.
    I’ll bet some of you still can’t understand why or how America is going down the toilet. Amazing, and it gets worse every day.

    • karolyn

      Lighten up! Why should me confine our debates to only certain areas of news?

  • James

    The issue here is whether the federal Defense of Marriage Act of 1996, is unconstitutional, because it denies federal entitlements to married couples that are gay. The 14th Amendment in relevant part reads: “nor shall any State…deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.” Federal entitlements are dispersed by state agencies, to enforce the Defense of Marriage Act, they would have to treat their gay citizens differently, which would violate the 14th Amendment.

  • Norm

    No sweat off my ass – literally. If you’re not gay who cares?

    • Robert Smith

      I care, Norm. “If you’re not gay who cares?”

      Like I said, I care. If ALL freedoms and equality isn’t respected for all Americans then we are all diminished.

      I’m for freedom of choice in firearms.

      I’m for freedom of choice in reproduction.

      I’m for freedom of choice in same sex marrage.

      I’m for freedom of choice in recreational drugs.

      Get the point?

      Rob

      • Pete

        Hey,

        I’m just for what Jesus wants. It’s all in the Bible.

        The Homosexuals sure don’t want to do what God says is right.
        It’s all in the Bible, God’s written word ….

  • jopa

    sc;With such a reaction like that it seems as if your closet door may be opened up by just a crack.Come come step out into the light!!

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