Comments Subscribe to Personal Liberty News Feed Subscribe to Personal Liberty
 

Guns Save Lives

December 27, 2012 by  


Hello, I’m Wayne Allyn Root for Personal Liberty. Happy Holidays to all my readers. My message is pretty simple this week: Don’t believe the hype from liberals or the media (I know I repeat myself). The fact is: GUNS SAVE LIVES.

Not only do liberals lie… they always come to the wrong conclusion, and usually come up with the wrong solution, in response to every crisis.

As an example, we don’t have a “fiscal cliff” crisis because of a tax problem in America. What we have is a spending problem — Obama is a spending addict. Obama criticized Bush for adding $4 trillion to the debt in eight years. Yet Obama added just under $6 trillion in four years. He is on track to add $12 trillion to our debt by the end of his second term– three times more than Bush. And Obama has produced four consecutive trillion dollar plus deficits for the first time in history. Obama is the biggest spender of any politician in world history.

What does this have to do with guns? It’s the same story. Every time there’s a crisis politicians learn the wrong lesson… come up with the wrong solution… and always use the crisis as a reason to take away our freedoms and grow government bigger.

Take the debt crisis: Obama wants to raise taxes, so we lose our economic freedom, and government grows bigger… while we add more debt to solve a debt crisis. That should work out well!

Take 9/11 — Bush spent billions on the formation of Homeland Security, hundreds of thousands of expensive new government employees, started two wars, and took many of our civil rights away.

Take global warming — Obama wants to tax us to death, double our electric bills, take away our freedoms, and put government in charge of business.

Take the health care crisis — Obama passed Obamacare to raise our taxes, grow government, unionize healthcare workers, and put government in charge of our health.

The same story holds true with the gun control issue spurred by the tragic Newtown school shooting. The liberal politicians and media are using Rahm Emanuel’s famous saying, “Never let a crisis go to waste.” They are trying to turn a terrible tragedy into a gun problem. Their solution is to try to demonize and ban guns. But the Newtown tragedy wasn’t a gun problem; it was a mental illness problem.

Thank goodness the American public has more common sense than the politicians and media big shots. The latest Rasmussen poll is out following the Newtown tragedy. While 27 percent think stricter gun control laws are the solution… a dominant 48 percent believe the answer is more action to treat mental health issues.

It is obvious that many Americans feel in their gut what the statistics I’m about to share with you prove — that guns do much more than kill (in the wrong hands). More often than not, they save lives and prevent violence.

Here are a few proven facts that are too often missing from the gun debate (Thanks to Gun Owners of America and ZeroHedge.com for these statistics):

Based on a 2000 study, Americans use guns to defend themselves from crime and violence 989,883 times annually. Banning guns would leave about 1,000,000 Americans defenseless from criminals who have no problem acquiring guns illegally.

A nationwide survey of almost 5,000 households found that over a five-year period 3.5 percent of households had a member who used a gun to protect themselves, their family, or their property. This also adds up to about the same 1,000,000 incidents annually.

The Clinton Justice Department identified 1.5 million cases per year of citizens using guns to defend themselves.

Another survey found that Americans use guns to frighten intruders away from a home break-in about 500,000 times annually.

Armed citizens shoot criminals more than twice as often as police each year (1,527 to 606).

Each year about 200,000 women use a gun to defend themselves from a sexual crime or abuse.

The Carter Justice Department found that of more than 32,000 attempted rapes, 32 percent were actually committed. But when a woman was armed with a gun or knife, only 3 percent of the attempted rapes were actually successful.

Newer studies all point towards a figure of 2.5 million — that’s the new number for how many times Americans defend themselves from violent criminals each year. 2.5 million. Guns save lives.

Now that we’ve polled the citizens, how about we see what the felons have to say:

  • A survey of male felons in 11 State prisons across the USA found that 34 percent had been scared off, wounded or captured by an armed victim of their crime.
  • 40 percent of felons made a decision not to commit a crime because they feared the potential victim had a gun.
  • 69 percent of felons knew other fellow criminals who had been scared off or captured by an armed victim.
  • 57 percent of felons polled agreed that “criminals are more worried about meeting an armed victim than they are about running into the police.”
  • Statistical comparisons with other countries show that burglars in the United States are far less apt to enter an occupied home than their foreign counterparts who live in countries where fewer civilians own firearms.

These facts (and many more too voluminous to show here) prove that guns — in the right hands — defend citizens, families and children. In short, guns save lives.

By the way… it’s important to note that Barack Obama wants to disarm schools… create “gun free zones.” Yet he spends $60,000 per year to send his precious daughters to exclusive Sidwell Friends School — which has? Drumroll please… ARMED guards. An armed security force of nine to be precise.

And David Gregory of NBC News sends his child there too. Armed guards are necessary for their children. But not yours.

And Michael Moore has armed bodyguards. While he condemns guns.

But for me, it’s always been a personal and emotional argument, even more than a factual one. I’m a proud Jewish American. Over six million of my fellow Jews were enslaved, starved, tortured, and then slaughtered by Adolph Hitler. Before it could happen, in 1938, Hitler banned gun ownership for Jews.

That act on Nov. 11, 1938 was the beginning of the end for German Jews. Millions of Jews were left defenseless from that day forward. Just like the criminals in the studies above, who were far less likely to break into a home or attack a victim, if they feared the victim was armed; Hitler only started his murderous genocide after first ensuring his victims were disarmed, defenseless and helpless.

But why should that surprise anyone. Virtually every dictator in history has started his murderous reign by disarming the population.

The communist leaders of China recently issued a statement in response to our Newtown, Conn., tragedy. They said that Obama must disarm the American people. I wonder why they’re so interested in our people being disarmed? What do you think they have in mind?

I’m a member of both the NRA (National Rifle Association) and JPFO (Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership). Will I support reasonable gun control? Of course.

Should we ensure that mentally ill people cannot purchase guns? Of course.

Should we enforce current gun laws? Of course.

But should we move to ban guns, thereby leaving the law-abiding citizens defenseless and helpless? Never. Not in America.

Should government and law enforcement be the only ones legally able to carry guns? Never. Not in America.

Should government be allowed to take away guns from honest, law-abiding homeowners, business owners, and citizens like me? Only when you pry them from my cold, dead hands.

Thomas Jefferson put it best: “When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.”*

I’m Wayne Allyn Root for Personal Liberty. See you next week, same time, same place.

Happy New Year. Stay safe and stay vigilant. God Bless.

* While this quote if often attributed to Jefferson, there is no evidence that he ever uttered or wrote these words, according to Monticello.org.–BL

Wayne Allyn Root

Wayne Allyn Root is one of America's leading Libertarian-conservative authors. Wayne's new book is The Murder of the Middle Class Wayne is a Capitalist Evangelist, serial entrepreneur, conservative media commentator, and proud champion of the middle class. He is a former Libertarian vice presidential nominee and Fox News regular. Follow Wayne on Twitter and visit Wayne's web site: www.ROOTforAmerica.com

Facebook Conversations

Join the Discussion:
View Comments to “Guns Save Lives”

Comment Policy: We encourage an open discussion with a wide range of viewpoints, even extreme ones, but we will not tolerate racism, profanity or slanderous comments toward the author(s) or comment participants. Make your case passionately, but civilly. Please don't stoop to name calling. We use filters for spam protection. If your comment does not appear, it is likely because it violates the above policy or contains links or language typical of spam. We reserve the right to remove comments at our discretion.

Is there news related to personal liberty happening in your area? Contact us at newstips@personalliberty.com

  • phideaux

    Excellent article Wayne. I can not wait to see the feeble attempts to discredit you eddie and flashy will make.

    • Vicki

      It is kinda obvious that guns save lives. In Gun Free Zones lots of people die. Recent examples include a movie theater and a school. Zones with lots of guns NEVER have lots of people die. Examples include police stations, gun shops and military bases. Wait a minute? Fort Hood. Oh yeah that’s right. Clinton turned them into GUN FREE ZONES.
      http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/nov/11/end-clinton-era-military-base-gun-ban/

      Its time to STOP the MADNESS.

      • http://yahoo.com Frank

        Any attempt to take guns away from freedom loving, good Americans will result in the people with guns taking over the government! Obama hates America…..1/2 of America hates him and see that his real goal is a dictatorship!! The 1/2 that hates him is very well armed, the military will side with the free Americans!! Bet ya!!

      • marcjeric32

        If guns kill people then: pencils misspell words, cars make people drive drunk, spoons make people fat, matches result in arson, water drowns kids, heights make people fall, and socialism makes everybody rich.

      • GALT

        Given old Wayne’s “satisfied” customer base, that he be “armed” at all times is probably a wise precaution…….armored vehicles and bodyguards too, but we know he can’t afford them…….I wonder if he is ready for the FEMA camp……..” King Rat ” might provide some interesting idea’s for you Wayne.

      • DaveH

        We’ll see, Frank, but I really doubt that the people would put their guns where their mouths are.
        Take New Orleans for example:
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-taU9d26wT4

      • Mikey

        LOL…..marcjeric32, well put!

      • Smilee

        Frank says:
        December 27, 2012 at 7:17 am

        More than half voted for him and the rest that didn’t vote for him do not all hate him that is only a small percentage of them and few want to take up arms against the government just persons with radical beliefs and sorry to tell you there is not anywhere near enough fire power to take over the government it would be a short and fast war with the radicals either ending up dead or in prison.

      • JeffH

        Smilee, I’m quite sure most of us have a different take than you about who the “radicals” are.

      • DaveH

        Flashman says — “sorry to tell you there is not anywhere near enough fire power to take over the government”.
        If that were the case, then they wouldn’t need to hire people like Flashshill to Propagandize us.
        Government Leaders are a very small percentage of the population and they depend on the goodwill of the vast majority of people to stay in power.

      • eddie47d

        Jeff H ; We can’t help that you are buddies with Chris Simcox. Your dear friend on the border!

      • http://naver samurai

        Now Jeff H, we all know that flashman, ed, and smilee would be the ones in prison or worse. Here is something from a 5th columner using race as a reason for us wanting to own guns. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

        http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/michael-moore-calm-down-white-people-and-put-away-your-guns

        You need both love of country and faith in God to be a patriiot.

        “If we did a good act merely from love of God and a belief that it is pleasing to Him, whence rises the morality of the atheist? Their virtue then, must have had some other foundation than the love of God.”

        Thomas Jefferson

        • Jeff

          Fifth Columner? Why? Because he objected to GM closing its factories in Flint and moving them out of the country? Because he objects to morons like you who “talk to God” walking around with powerful guns? Because he objects to our country having the money for everything but caring for its citizens? Because he is smarter and more successful than you’ll ever be with your Fake Samurai act? Keep telling everyone you’re Godly and patriotic and holier than thou while you’re ready to sell your soul to any corporate interest willing to put people out of work to make a buck. When people do that, you can say it’s legal, you can say it’s good business; you can’t say it’s patriotic unless you’re a Fake!

      • JeffH

        eddie, again you say somethig stupid and ignorantly outrageous.
        Are you the offspring of inbreeding?

        As for Simcox, never met the guy, but if I did we’d probably get along just fine. Unlike you and your ilk, he’s obviously a concerned patriot. Seems he’s got a lot of folks attempting to discredit him…nothing new where liberals and progressive lambs are concrned.

        BOO!

      • JeffH

        Child troll Jeff with the Nazi fetish, are you related to eddie and Karolyn? A lot of similarities in your posts.

        • Jeff

          Gun Nut From Nozzle Entrance:

          That’s how Fresno is thought of here. The Nazi fetishist is YOU. You are obviously ashamed and embarrassed that you used to adorn your moronic posts with swastikas and pictures of your Uncle Adolph. Want to see a Nazi? Look in the mirror – holding your stupid gun, of course.

      • MLR

        Vicki.
        Military bases have been gun free for decades, I was in the US Army, 1971-1973.
        The guns for the soldiers are locked up in the armory, utill something happens, then you get your rifle, but your’e lucky to get any ammo. to go with it

      • JeffH

        Thanks for the unintelligent response child troll with the Nazi fetish. Wah! Wah! Fresno, Wah! Wah! You really hurt my feelings NOT!

        FYI, I don’t have to look in the mirror to admire my guns. I treat them with respect, cleaning and polishing them, keeping them warm and comfortable in their soft and luxurious cases.

        • Jeff

          child troll with the Nazi fetish:

          You really do have a very limited vocabulary though I suspect you know all kinds of gun and killing terminology.

          • JeffH

            Why waste words on someone as irrelevant as you Jeff, the childish troll with the Nazi fetish. Being suspect must keep your mind occupied.

            Better you than me! :) Wah, wah, wah! Want some cheese to go with your whine?

          • Jeff

            Fortunately, you’re one of the dumb, obvious Nazis. The smart ones are much more dangerous.

          • JeffH

            Keep posting child troll…with the Nazi fetish. Show the rest of the posters here just how immature and childish you really are.

          • macgyver1948

            Hi Jeff… Sad that nothing changes here except for the thread and the articles and some of the names, LOL… Hows it going? …

          • Jeff

            Some of the names here I’ve been reading their posts since even before Elaine, although that seems like the beginning of time.

          • macgyver1948

            Jeff… Some of these names are new to me here but there are others I remember. This Elaine person you mention, who is she? On second thought please do not remind me. LOL

      • Financially Insecure John

        Vicki,
        if your hands could read the stuff you type, they would cut your wrist-both of them.

      • Vicki

        Financially Insecure John says:
        “Vicki,
        if your hands could read the stuff you type, they would cut your wrist-both of them.”

        Oh look. They brought out their supervisor just for little ol’e me. How sweet.

      • http://naver samurai

        Ah yes! The personal attack. Classic 5th column strategy. You seem to talk the talk, but you can never walk the walk. You are the heretic and fake. That’s all I’ll say about your post Mr. gestapo. Leave your facist tendencies off of this site. You really do make yourself sound stupid. I gues it is true what Jeff H says, “Stupid is as stupid does.” Here is something for you 5th columners to ponder. Another victory for God and patriots and a loss for the 5th column.

        http://www.aclj.org/2012-victories-constitution-protects-nativity-scenes-public-land?sf8036052=1

        FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

        You need both love of country and faith in God to be a patriot.

        “While just government protects all in their religious rights, true religion affords to government its surest support.”

        George Washington

      • Mike in MI

        Hey Smilee – Re. your 1;42 PM POST
        You seem to forget Obama’s got most of the U.S. Army, Marines, Nat’l Guard, Navy and other forces, except his ATF, FEMA and TSA hired thugs, off around the world fighting battles he has set up for them to lose by assinine rules of engagement, “pacification” of savagery, enlisting in and propagating graft and corruption to mollify the enemy (Taliban and al qaeda) and local chieftains and God knows how many other Chicago-plan-political-deals he’s running (along with guns, rockets and mortars to U.S. Ambassador killers).
        Do you really think he can marshal it all together, get it all home, in a couple days to protect himself? He’d better start now.

      • Smilee

        Mike in MI says:
        December 28, 2012 at 12:33 am

        .Only a fool would bet against that, no unorganized bunch of self declared militants wold stand a iota of a chance of success, dream on sucker

      • eddie47d

        Of coarse you’d get along with him Jeff H for he also advocated for killing on the border! That is right up your ally.

      • Robert Smith

        Shucks samurai… I wonder if your guy at: http://www.aclj.org/2012-victories-constitution-protects-nativity-scenes-public-land?sf8036052=1

        See, I know some folks who would like to put the Wiccan Rede in stone next to some public displays of the ten commandments.

        I think it’s much nicer. It doesn’t have any demands from diety that they be put before all others and things like that.

        Think your guy can help? Or is his brand of “religious freedom” just for some christians?

        Rob

      • Robert Smith

        Mike bleats: “(along with guns, rockets and mortars to U.S. Ambassador killers).”

        Hmmmmmm, wasn’t that Iran Contra?

        Sounds very much like Reagan to me.

        Rob

      • http://wyrdpooka.wordpress.com wyrdpooka

        the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun blah blah blah, why do we always assume that owning a gun is some sort of magic . We always assume that being a GOOD Guy is the same thing as being a GOOD Shot. and the bad guys, well we’ve all seen it in the movies and tv. the bad guys cant hit the side of a barn.
        Course as it turns out. a person who owns a gun is 3 times more likely to shot them selves then a bad guy. But again we always assume that the stupid guy is not going to be you ohh no not you. Your never ever going to be that guy, that shot his six year old son to death in the parking lot of the gun shop. that’s never ever going to be you, cause your smart, and you got a gun so your smart and a crack shot and great in a panic situation. Cause your heart is pure so God will make all your bullets hit only the bad guys.

        Meh,. I’ve had people with guns try and kill me. so I’m not all peace and sun shine, but trust me on this, a quick wit and a can of super glue beats a gun. My only trouble with guns is that they make it too easy for stupid people to kill me.

        as a small thing, I just wonder,, why not put some limits on the number of bullets you can buy at a time? Guns don’t kill people, bullets do.

      • alicia

        And Chicago huh? There are lots of guns there, and lots of homicides. They go hand in hand.

        • BR549

          Alicia wrote: “And Chicago huh? There are lots of guns there, and lots of homicides. They go hand in hand.”

          Perfect example. Thank you. The good guys hand in all their guns and there is no one but understaffed police departments to respond to all the bad guys who were never going to hand their guns in to begin with. Glad you brought that up.

          ——————————-

          When and IF mankind ever matures beyond the point of invading other countries and needing to maintain a thriving arms industry in order to do so, only THEN will the need for guns fall off, and when countries and governments no longer require them, it won’t be profitable for the arms manufacturers.

          But the leftist libtards can’t think that far ahead. In typical knee-jerk fashion, they immediately start assessing their own mortality and run around wetting their pants during the nighttime news. And since the problem of disenfranchisement and disassociation of individuals from their own society never seems to make it to the legislative table, politicians will continue to corruptively support Monsanto which has systematically been destroying the viability of our soil profile, or the pharmaceutical industry, which only makes the dissociated members more toxic.

          No, sweetie, those people in Washington are guilty of one of two things; either acts of commission, where they intentionally pass laws that undermine organic farming attempts, OR they make it into office, pound their carrot for two years, and then are guilty of acts of omission, as they continually look the other way and never make an attempt to learn what the REAL problem is.

          As long we have this hegemonic foreign policy that continues to violate the sovereign boundaries of other nations, you can bet your last dollar that these people in Washington will have no respect for your boundaries, either. When people lose that sense of their own boundaries, THAT is where violence occurs towards others.

          Don’t hold your breath thinking that any of those cerebral sloths in Washington are going to offer to step down so that some fresh blood might be able to step up and put this country back on track. Heck, that traitor Inouye’s last wish was that the governor appoint his own replacement.

          And people think that giving up guns will save the children. Pardon me while I puke.

      • http://comcast the fisherman

        Hey pickerwood what butt are you blowing smoke out of this time

      • Old Henry

        DaveH,

        Good link. I saw another one on Alex’s site where a former OK NG called in and told about kicking in doors and ruffing up law-abiding citezens in NO.

        I think the people down ther eshould be having their own Nuremberg Trials, with similar outcomes.

        • http://www.facebook.com/holton.brown Holton F. Brown

          Thgis actually in responce to vicki. pls note location of store in reards to owner’s house:

          Deputies looking for info in gun shop burglary in Wayne County New York state)

          Posted at: 11/25/2012 12:57 PM | Updated at: 11/26/2012 12:22 AM
          By: Joangel Concepcion | WHEC.com

          Deputies in Wayne County are looking for information in an investigation into guns stolen from a business.

          Sheriff’s officials say a large quantity of guns were stolen from Tom’s Guns and Ammo on Steele Road in Sodus. The burglary happened sometime in the overnight hours on the night of the 23rd, into the morning of the 24th.

          The owner, Tom Putnam, tells News10NBC he feels completely violated. He says this burglary happening literally way too close to home. That’s because the owner’s house is attached to the shop and he says he was asleep when the burglary took place.

          Putnam has been running this gun shop for more than twenty years, so he says it didn’t take much for him to realize something was terribly wrong when he woke up on Saturday.

          “I opened up and I knew something was wrong right away,” says Putnam. “I heard wind whistling when I opened up the back door.”

          Putnam quickly realized his gun shop had been burglarized. He believes that two to three people broke into the store overnight by breaking through a bullet proof window. The thieves cleared out these displays cases making off with 62 handguns. Putnam says he’s worried the firearms will end up in the wrong hands.

          “There’s 62 handguns that are going to hit the street,”says Putnam. “They may be on the streets right now. Law abiding citizens aren’t the ones that will be buying these guns.”

          Putnam estimates the burglary cost him around $30,000, but he says it’s not about the money.

          “Guns are a very personal thing to me,” says Putnam. “I’ve been involved with firearms probably within the last fifty years.”

          The Wayne County Sheriff’s Office aren’t the only ones looking into this incident. They are also working with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms on the investigation. Anybody with information on the incident is asked to call the Wayne County Sheriff’s Office at 315-946-9711.

          For more Rochester, N.Y. news go to our website http://www.whec.com.
          Like us on Facebook & follow us on Twitter

      • Overbylyng

        Interesting for a peaceful Dane to follow your seak debat about guns. In gunfree Denmark we have never had killings like you have. Every owner of a gun should be registered.
        And now we can see that you also sell bullitproof clotes to schoolkids and want to give teachers guns. You are creating a seak society based on fear instead of trust. You also have a lot of politisians that figt instead of creating co-existence and cooperation about solving problems. Co-existence or no-existence. War, guns, fear and hatred have newer solved basical problems for our globe.

        • Jeff

          You are absolutely correct, and it’s good that the gun nuts on this site hear a perspective from outside the U.S. The argument that “gun-free” zones are unsafe doesn’t even make sense unless you assume somebody has a gun in such a zone. Then they bring up the gun laws in Chicago and the murder rate there. Well, those guns didn’t come from Chicago and the State of Illinois cannot search everyone entering the state. If we had real nationwide gun control it would make a huge difference, but to some of these gun nuts, their guns are more important to them than their right arms.

    • tony newbill

      Obviously Eddie and Flashy don’t get up until later so they are definitely on Obamas benefits package , or they would be here with the rest of us who are up and looking for a way to make a buck today …. LOL
      Ahh but lets consider this today ,

      If Armed Security is needed at President Obamas scholl where hisd Kids go then why not this be US Policy for all schools ???
      http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/12/23/School-Obama-s-Daughters-Attend-Has-11-Armed-Guards-Not-Counting-Secret-Service

      • tony newbill

        Opps Sorry Eddie looks like you are up !!! LOL

      • Flashy

        Tony…think West Coast and work hours based on overseas time zones in the Pacific … but then, thinking is not known to be one of your “talents’….

        • tony newbill

          Good Morning Flashy !!!!!

      • Flashy

        mornin’ !

      • DaveH

        Yeah, Tony, you need to get with the program and take into account the hours worked at the Boiler Rooms.

      • DaveH

        “I quit this job in the latter part of 2011, because I became disgusted with it, and with myself. I realized I couldn’t look myself in the mirror anymore”.
        http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread826545/pg1&addstar=1&on=13829871#pid13829871

        We needn’t hope for that realization to come to Flashshill, because he would need a conscience before that could happen.

      • JeffH

        Dave :) very familiar looking.

        “It also had quite detailed info on the moderators and the most popular regged posters on each site: location (if known), personality type, topics of interest, background sketch, and even some notes on how to “push the psychological buttons” of different posters. Although I didn’t work for ATS, I did see they had a lot of info on your so-called “WATS” posters here (the ones with gold borders around their edges). “Focus on the popular posters,” my trainer told me. “These are the influential ones. Each of these is worth 50 to 100 of the lesser known names.”

        The part about the “brown nosing” reminded me of Loechner.

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAY

        Good one, DaveH! Of course, this only confirms what we knew all along. Naturally, the “paid-shill” on this site will deny it. No matter, we know who they are…

      • http://midcontent brand inspector

        The village Hillary is picking up their used sugar teats and the sippy cups off their beds. The government run nannies are plan their structured day. They will be along in a bit.

      • eddie47d

        Speaking of brown nosers and sugar teats Jeff H. that is one of your favorite ploys. As by the fact you are 100% agreeable to anything the authors have to say.They can be dead wrong and all we hear is crickets which means you will go along with ANY right wing programmer. No ability to think for yourself like so many sheeple on the right. I think you already have the Stockholm Syndrome as so many here do.

      • DaveH

        I don’t think Eddie is a shill, because I can’t imagine somebody paying for his nonsense even with other peoples’ money.

      • JeffH

        Excuse me while I laugh my arse off at your stupidity eddie. What I really like about you posting your ranting comments here is your ability to prove just how inane you really are. You are a true parrot, plagiarizing what you read and hear and then repeating it with childish and emotional ignorance.

        POLLY WANT A CRACKER? baaaarrraaacckkkkk!

        I think Mr. Livingston does a pretty good job of pointing that out, especially today, and yet he allows you to continue to make your insubstantial, silly, unintelligent, absurd, ridiculous, frivolous, childish, immature, mindless, crass and stupid comments.

        There is a reason why you reap the bulk of the negative comments on this website eddie, and it’s not because you’re a perceived threat to anyone else. Your skull must be so thick that you are willing to be the laughingstock of PLD rather than just admit you are wrong, a liar, a slanderer and that you truly are mentally deficient.

        Seek some help!

      • http://naver samurai

        Well said Jeff H, Dave H, and Tony, but don’t expect the 5th columners to understand what you are saying. Here is something from Senator Feinstein about having gun owners finger printed by the ATF:

        http://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/assult-weapons

        Let her come here and try to get my fingerprints. She won’t make it passed the door. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

        You need both love of country and fear of God to be a patriot.

        “The principle of separation of church and state is not embedded in the Constitution.”

        Antonin Scalia January 12, 2003

      • JeffH

        samurai, first things first. I hopw you, sook young and your family had a very Merry Christmas and please say hello to sook young for me and wish her the best.

        D.Feindyck…now isn’t she a piece of work.

      • http://naver samurai

        Thanks Jeff H! We hope you and yours had a Merry Christmas and will have a Happy New Year. Isn’t she a piece of work? Oooooohhhhh yyyyyeeeeeaaaaahhhhh! I just wonder who is the bigger piece of work Feinstein, Pelosi, or Reid? All 3 need to be replaced. Here is something about how Obama bin Laden is so full of himself, he talked about himself at the funeral of a senator from Hawaii. He also lied about growing up in Hawaii. If I remember right, isn’t Hawaii and Indonesia across the Pacific Ocean from each other?

        http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/obama-uses-funeral-service-talk-about-himself_690960.html

        FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

        You need both love of country and faith in God to be a patriot.

        “We profess to be republicans, and yet we neglect the only means of establishing and perpetuating our republican forms of government, that is, the universal education of our youth in the principles of Christianity by the means of the Bible. For this Divine Book, above all others, favors that equality among mankind, that respect for just laws, and those sober and frugal virtues, which constitute the soul of republicanism.”

        Benjamin Rush

    • HKaufman

      Root a toot toot, are both YOU and Root a toot toot that far gone out of REALITY. By yours and Root a toot toot thinking a gun matriculates into the Realm of Reality and tells the human now stand behind me and ill set you free of meeting the Grim Reaper. Nut with weapon ok to be Judge,Jury, and executioner.. I hope you have not started to breed. Geez Us,,, the fate of mankind quickly reaching the melting pot and with the thinking manking going back to bacteria stage…

      • JeffH

        Your words were really deep and well thought out…you must be a progressive.

      • http://naver samurai

        OMG! Someone quick, call an ambulance! This person needs to be rushed to the OR for their cranial rectumotomy. He has a severe case of cranial rectal insertion. Here is something about gun control laws:

        http://www.france24.com/en/20121223-us-lobby-issues-point-blank-no-gun-control

        FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

        You need both love of country and faith in God to be a patriot.

        “To the kindly influence of Christianity we owe that degree of civil ffreedom, and political and social happiness which mankind now eenjoys…Whenever the pillars of Christianity shall be overthrown, oour present republican forms of government, and all blessing which fflow from them, must fall with them.”

        Jedediah Morse

    • Joe H

      Phideaux,
      Why would you want to see comments from eddie and flashy when their combined comments don’t equal one cognitive thought? I think higher of your opine than that!!

    • eddie47d

      The title could just as easily said Guns Kill Lives but the authors never want to tell the whole truth about their mission!

    • fred buschbaum

      Having stumbled on this site, I feel honor bound to add a comment to this bag of nuts from both sides of the tree. And yes, I’ll be stealing other peoples ideas when I yhink they have merit. First, I thought I was a Rep. until I took seceral quizes, and found I’m so far right of that, that I’m a libertarian! I think most Reps want things as they are just like the Dems so they can keep on doing business on the same old street corner. Now for a couple of thoughts, Isoruko Yamamoto told the Japanese military leaders not to invade the U,S. because there would be a gun behind every blade of grass. In Isreal, school teachers are armed at all times and in the last 10 years, only 8 children have been killed,(this in a country surrounded by several million terrorists), while here in the U.S. in the same 10 yrs., 323 children have been killed. And, the number of people shot by various loonies who were stopped by police averages 18.5, the same average of people shot by loonies stopped by armed civilians was 2.2. I’ve just run out of coffee, so I’ll be back later to add more fuel to the fire. Semper Fi!

      • JC

        Fred, glad you could comment.
        Just as an aside…”Libertarian” isn’t far right.
        It’s a solid belief in the Constitution of the United States of America.
        That would be a main stream patriotic American.
        So don’t think of yourself as an extremist…that’s not what its about.

    • Steve L.

      The same people who blame President Obama and atty general for fast and furious now suddenly have switched to “guns in the right hands” ha ha ha. Next wayne will tell us the children murdered last week is Obama’s fault too. Google ‘losers and their propaganda’ and it will bring you directly to this site

      • BR549

        Steve L. wrote: “Next Wayne will tell us the children murdered last week is Obama’s fault too.” No, it isn’t Obama’s fault. If there’s any blame to pass around, it starts with corrupt politicians who have pulled the rug out from under many American’s belief that if they serve their country, their country will serve them. Instead, the politicians think they’re at some kind of smorgasbord, paid for with your and my tax dollars.

        Simply dismissing the politicians greedy unethical behavior as typically human only negates all that our forefathers fought for and what so many soldiers had given their lives for. These people took that extra step in taken an oath of service …… and then betrayed the very people that voted for them. This isn’t a partisan issue; it’s rampant on both sides of the aisle, but anyone who is till naively believing that only THEIR party still has the wherewithall to fix this country, is in for a very rude awakening.

        And, “Google ‘losers and their propaganda’ and it will bring you directly to this site.”
        So, then, ………. what exactly brought YOU here?

      • http://personalliberty Alondra

        Steve L, the 2nd Amendment says:

        “A well-regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS, SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED.”

        But your libtadic two-cell twisted crippled brain with high deficiency of the Grey matter is incapable to understand and process the reality

        “A free PEOPLE OUGHT not only to BE ARMED and disciplined, but THEY SHOULD HAVE SUFFICIENT ARMS AND AMMUNITION TO MAINTAIN A STATUS OF INDEPENDENCE FROM ANY WHO MIGHT ATTEMPT TO ABUSE THEM, which would include their own GOVERNMENT.” – George Washington, the Founding Father, the 1st President of the USA, the 1st Commander-in-Chief

        “The very atmosphere of FIREARMS ANYWHERE and EVERYWHERE RESTRAINS EVIL INTERFERENCE. They deserve a place of HONOR with all that is good.” – George Washington

        “The said CONSTITUTION shall NEVER be construed to authorize Congress TO PREVENT THE PEOPLE of the United States who are peaceable citizens FROM KEEPING THEIR OWN ARMS.” – Samuel Adams, the Founding Fathers of the United States, one of the leaders of American Revolution, 4th Governor of Massachusetts, political Philosopher

        “The great object is that every man be armed. EVERYONE who is able may have a GUN.” – Patrick Henry (a Founding Father, he served as the first and sixth post-colonial Governor of Virginia; an attorney, planter and politician; he helped gain adoption of the Bill of Rights)

        “Are we at last brought to such humiliating and debasing degradation that we cannot be trusted with arms for our defense? Where is the difference between having our ARMS in possession and under our direction, and having them under the management of CONGRESS? If our defense be the real object of having those ARMS, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?” – Patrick Henry

        The Fast & Furious was the O’Homobama & Holder CRIMINAL operation, as well as the Benghazi operation (weapons for the Egyptian and Syrian muslim brotherhood)

        Benghazi Terrorists Armed By Obama (Obama supplied the weapons that were used to kill Americans.)

        “It has been reported that the arms used to murder the Americans at the Benghazi consulate and CIA safe house were supplied by Barack Hussein Obama. That the group responsible for the attack—Ansar al-Sharia—got the weapons from their sister organization, al-Qaeda, which received the weapons directly from Barack Obama”

        westernjournalism.com/benghazi-terrorists-armed-by-obama/

        O’Homobama and Holder SUPPLIED Mexican drug cartels and Islamic extremists/terrorists with the weapons. They have blood on their hands of more than 300 Mexicans and four Americans.

        Steve L, Next time get the facts and not your left-wing propaganda or shut up.

    • http://personalliberty Alondra

      England and Australia Have Been Completely Disarmed!

      youtube.com/watch?v=zitVMxlNyGs

    • walter agard

      guns saves lives, it takes it too.

    • http://www.facebook.com/benjamin.fox.98892 Benjamin Fox

      Both eddie teddy and flashy dashy are both left wing nut jobs, their so called brains were fried at birth and the left overs came out instead of a human being. A gun left un attended has never killed anyone, people kill people and that is a fact to the dumb, blind and stupid.

  • JeffH

    Solving problems with violence is as American as apple pie

    Hypocrisy of Gun Control in a Land Where War and Violence Are Sexy

    The National Rifle Association (NRA) has become public enemy number one amongst left-leaning Americans since the most recent incident of random shooting. Is blaming the NRA a convenient way for Americans to avoid some necessary soul searching: a refusal to address the deeply-rooted cultural problem of violence being the preferred method of conflict resolution and most popular source of entertainment in areas that include sports, movies, TV, and video games? In essence, violence provides the backdrop to nearly all aspects of life in the United States. The government has glamorized violence by conducting endless wars, maintaining a gargantuan prison system, and keeping the death penalty legal. The US economy has increasingly become a war economy since 2001, and the business of death is booming. Recruitment centers for the US military are popping up in every high school and shopping mall. Television and cinema advertisements for the Marines have the slick and sexy look of Hollywood trailers. “Be all you can be!” says Uncle Sam, who carefully omits from his sales pitch that the main requirements for the job are the willingness to kill and get killed.

    Can one blame the NRA when the US president runs a kill list from the White House?

    Of 429,729 homicide FBI files examined by evolutionary psychologist David Buss, 13,670 (or 3%) were cases in which a husband killed his wife. Thus, in their more intimate roles as jilted lovers or unloved sons, a small fraction of men murder not only their mates or parents but also everyone else who happens to be nearby at the wrong time. Why should collateral damage be solely the purview of the President? After all, he is considered to be the country’s ultimate role model. And why should Americans be surprised by an endemic violence problem when their role model, their foremost example of what one does with power, runs an assassination program directly from the White House?

    • DaveH

      Here is some backup for that concept.
      Utah is at the bottom of the Brady Campaign rankings for Gun Control.
      California is at the top of the Brady Campaign rankings for Gun Control.
      Utah has a murder rate of 1.9 per 100,000.
      California has a murder rate of 4.8 per 100,000.
      DC, by the way, has a murder rate of 17.5 per 100,000. So much for Big Government protecting us.

      • ranger09

        For all you People that thinks the Military will help the People againest the Govt, YOU are so wrong, History shows us that the Military and Police will follow the Orders of the Govt. Only time the Military will side with the People is when the Fighting is 45-47 % in favor of the People. But we all know this % will never be Possible, We have just let the Powers to Be gain to much Power over us, We have become Sheep that just follow the Bell.
        One thing about Thomas Jefferson he darn well knew History. To bad many people on here know very little. No longer will i shed my blood in other Lands, Only in America.
        I remember My Brother who was In Korea, When the usa started going to VietNam, His only comment was well i see another Korea. But these People will not Compormise. And man he was so Right.

        • Smilee

          Not a chance, our military will never turn on our government, from the whiskey rebellion through civil war and beyond they din not and the culture today is less susceptible to it today. This is silly and foolish talk on your part

      • http://yahoo gator

        smilee, you are wrong. I know many in the military, and they would gladly turn on the gov. Its no secret that the murders at the embassy in bengazi, was a betrayal of our troops. Our military has more intelligence, and love of country, than you think. They also have a growing hatred of the powers that be.
        [comment has been edited]

        • Smilee

          I understand your fantasy but that is all it is, never going to happen in any grand scale and those who try it if they have the courage will quickly be put down and probably be charged and convicted of treason, that’s reality. Talk is cheap as anyone on here should be able to figure out except maybe those of you in a fantasy world

    • czman75

      ovomit, a role model? for who?

      • tony newbill

        What would Karolyn , NC , Flashy and Eddie47d have to say about this if Bush would have been in the Catbirds seat ????
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=BT1yqBZQOTs

      • eddie47d

        Bush has been in the “catbird” seat and even fell into the pile but still came out smelling like a rose. He didn’t even knock his hallo off!

      • tony newbill

        Oh BS Eddie47d Obama and the DEMs have gotten Miles off the ‘ Its Bushes fault “syndrome , Obama got elected twice now because of it , Clinton even used it when he said Obama couldn’t have fixed Bushes mess in one term , so go back to your mumbling man and cook up some other excuse for the Media NOT holding Obama to account for his Failed policies too !!!!

      • Mike in MI

        czman -
        He’s a role model for anyone who wants to get rolled I guess.
        It never ceases to amaze me how short-sighted, brain paralysed and totally lacking in insight liberals are. (I guess that’s why they are such a threat to civilization.) They want all the guns taken away thinking that will immediately put the kaibash on all violence. And in the next breath they blame all that on our awful, violent society: its media, entertainment, pro sports, field sports seeking food, competition, etc., etc., ad infinitum.
        But they never stop to (or begin to) think that those who take the guns are members of the same social millieu (except Obanimal, of course). They are just as likely, maybe more, to be a violent, oppressive, demanding, straight-laced control-freak as any other member of this great culture where weapons tend to remind those types that if you step into my personal zone I can and will despatch you forthwith. You try to force things or yourself on me/mine in ways I definitely dislike, you become just another dangerous animal in my mind. Reasonable, civilized, rational human beings don’t go around invading the lives and livelihoods of others or acting provokingly unless their intents are to do damage.
        That’s what normal people recognize about Oblama-lama-ding-dong and crew.

      • eddie47d

        You ask the question,use my name and then get testy because I answered! Typical Conservative troll!!

      • http://naver samurai

        Maybe this is something that the 5th column ought to read.

        http://www.patriotupdate.com/articles/note-to-gun-control-liberals-you-cant-handle-the-truth/

        FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

        You need both love of country and faith in God to be a patriot.

        “The wall of separation of church and state is a metaphor based on bad history…it should be frankly and explicitly abandoned.”

        William Rehnquist 1985

      • http://www.facebook.com/thomas.sherman.589 tgsherman

        CHINA & the LEFT

      • Joe H

        A role model for all the muslim comunistic azzes out in the world of course!

    • http://www.facebook.com/benjamin.fox.98892 Benjamin Fox

      So your answer is what JeffH? Let evil do what evil will do and don’t try to stop or change it? I guess your a real girly boy? Do you wave your dress at evil? what a piece of crap you are.

      • JeffH

        Benjy, what the F— are you blabbering about. Are you on drugs, drunk or just plain stupid? Seek some help you ignoramous!

  • JeffH

    The magic of gun control – Newark’s Democratic mayor, Cory Booker, raised some eyebrows by describing the post-Newtown media mania for gun control as a “false debate,” on last Sunday’s edition of ABC’s “This Week.”

    What frustrates me about this debate is it’s a false debate. It’s a false debate.

    “This is a convenient trick to try to divide our country more. Most of us in America, including gun owners, agree on things that would stop the kind of carnage that’s going on in cities all over America.”

    “I’m tired of the political debates,” he added. “They’re not necessary. I’m tired of the ideological positions. We don’t even need to visit them. Let’s stick to the pragmatic center where all Americans believe the same thing …“I’m not afraid of law-abiding citizens who buy a gun,” he said.

    “Criminals are killing people,” the mayor added. “Not law-abiding gun owners.”

    Booker’s comment about the deliberately divisive nature of the gun-control debate is more explosive, coming as it does from a prominent Democrat mayor poised for a run at the Senate. He’s going even further than calling gun-control zealots – almost all of whom are Democrats, or allied politically with Booker’s party – silly or misguided. He’s calling them mendacious, dishonest, and ultimately dangerous.

    One major driving force behind the media enthusiasm for new gun control laws: they believe laws are magic. The government “addresses” problems by passing laws. For Big Government enthusiasts, there is talismanic, supernatural power behind these laws. If you don’t support empowering government to deal with a problem, you don’t “care” about the problem. By extension, all of society’s problems are caused by excessive liberty, which is abused by dopey citizens out there in flyover country. The answer to every problem involves making the government larger. Dissenters are troglodytes who dare to stand in the way of “progress.”

    Most of the cries for new gun-control laws, in the wake of the Newtown massacre, amount to extending the laws that didn’t work in Connecticut until they apply from coast to coast. Many of these demands are based upon purely cosmetic or ideological considerations, such as the perpetual wumpus hunt against “assault weapons,” whose precise nature no one ever seems to define, beyond “they look scary.” Nothing less than the outright confiscation of all guns would have done more than inconvenience the Newtown murderer, who could still have perpetuated unspeakable carnage in a “gun-free zone” filled with children if he had come equipped with nothing but a couple of revolvers and speed-loaders (or, for that matter, weapons other than firearms.)

    Because this faith in Big Government is magical, it is immune to the application of firm, logical standards, and quickly grows annoyed with them. Pointing out the actual track record of gun control laws at “controlling” crime enrages gun-control zealots, as does mentioning the far stronger correlation between concealed-carry laws and reduced crime.

    The strange thing about the Left’s faith in legal magic is that some truly massive laws don’t seem to have supernatural auras. Liberals angrily deny that welfare programs have the kind of culture-shaping energy that symbolic gun control laws crackle with, even though social programs command thousands of times more power and money than gun control programs do. When the State writes billion-dollar programs in boldface, there is supposedly no great psychic effect on the populace, but when it scribbles fine print about controlling “assault weapons,” we are assured that the “gun culture” will change overnight.
    -Human Events
    -John Hayward
    -Dec 2012

    • JUKEBOX

      There is an old saying that History Repeats Itself. The laws for Prohibition in the 1920′s did not stop people from drinking, nor did it stop the brewing of moonshine in Appalachia. You simply cannot not legislate morals, only decree punishment for not obeying the law.

      • JeffH

        JUKEBOX, Amen to that!

      • Vicki

        Sometimes those repeating loops of history overlap. The war on (some) drugs.

      • Kate8

        JeffH – Don’t know if any of you have seen this yet, but it left me changed. You cannot watch this and be the same afterward.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=WcAPJ-kn8Vs

        As Stalin, Lenin and Hitler rounded up millions of (primarily Christians, but no one talks of that) of people, doing unspeakable things to them prior to putting them to death (the ones who simply got a bullet to the head were the lucky ones), one thing screamed to be observed: these people were completely unarmed and had no way to defend themselves against their government.

        Not one person was able to fire a shot in defense of themselves or their children.

        Anyone who advocates any kind of gun control should really watch this video. All of the leftists who shill on this site…hey. You are working for the exact same groups who brought communism and death to hundreds of millions in the 20th century alone, and are using exactly the same methods of convincing the people it’s for their own good. Um hum. Don’t think for one moment they plan a different outcome this time.
        ———-
        Trolls…

        You shills are complicit, because if you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. I hope you are prepared to have blood on your hands.

        How easily people sell their countrymen out for a few bucks.

        The Bible tells us that in these times, men’s hearts will have waxed cold…

      • JeffH

        Kate8, I’ve watched several of the horrific documentaries that contained never seen before graphic footage…it is difficult for some to ever admit that the holocaust ever existed or that any man is capable of these atrocities against their fellow man.

        My step dad was a young Pollock living in Warsaw. The Nazi’s seperated his family and took him to a prison work camp in Norway in 1942. He hardly ever spoke of what went on except when he and his Polish pal would sit at the table drinking vodka…that’s when I listened the most, when they got a little loose. All of his front teeth, top & bottom, were kicked out by the Nazis. He had false teeth. I came to understand why he was so intimidating to most that knew him and unafraid of anything…especially for a guy that was barely 5’5″ tall.
        He saw it all and survived.

        Hope you had a wonderful Christmas.

      • Kate8

        JeffH – Me, too. This one went further in that it is geared toward understanding the forces at play today in America, and how the atrocities of the past were all part of the progression of the overall plan for world dominance. Names of players are named, so we understand that these people never left us. They are the very ones who are orchestrating the events of today, and who are moving to disarm America toward their final endgame.

        It has a really wonderful ending. It is an offering of hope, really. It’s wonderfully done, and puts the events of the past century into perspective, showing us exactly what we need to see in order that we know how to break free now…before it’s too late.

      • Kate8

        JeffH – The other thing that struck me is how many willing participants there are in these genocides… those who are willing to carry them out. That is the most unthinkable thing to me.

        And you know… those who shill for these psychos on these blogsites are really not much different, as they are willing to play their part in setting up the slaughter. Some people will do anything for money, and have no regard or remorse.

      • JeffH

        Kate8, you’re right. I’m pretty sure that most of them, if they could, would like to see the real constitutional patriots locked up or executed for treason, damn the Constitution and damned due process.

        • Jeff

          Simply insane. I know, I know. Troll, blah, blah. Do yourself a favor and learn some new words. Now say something nasty in your native tongue.

      • http://naver samurai

        Here is something for all of us to watch:

        http://www.impeachobamacampaign.com/americans-will-never-surrender-their-second-amendment-rights/

        FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

        You need both love of country and faith in God to be a patriot.

        “A people without a heritage are easily persuaded.”

        Karl Marx

      • Joe H

        kate8,
        I watched your piece and I agree that ALL libs should watch it, but will they have the cranial capacity to understand the message behind it? there are examples of guns saving lives DAILY yet they still scream for gun control. There are millions upon millions of legal gun owners like myself that have owned guns for years, started shooting at the age of 12, and the only time they have ever hurt a breathing human being is in the employ of good ole Uncle Sugar! Now I wish them to tell me how disarming ME is going to make ANYTHING safer.

        • Jeff

          Disarming you will make YOU safer in your own house. It will make me safer in that your stupid gun won’t be stolen or taken by your slightly unstable grandson.

      • JC

        Jeff says:
        December 29, 2012 at 6:14 pm
        Disarming you will make YOU safer in your own house. It will make me safer in that your stupid gun won’t be stolen or taken by your slightly unstable grandson.
        __________________________________________________________________

        With that in mind, why don’t you put a sign in front of your house that says,
        “Gun Free Home”? That way your neighbors will feel safer knowing criminals will
        target you first. Stand by your convictions man! LOL

        • Jeff

          Your post does not address the FACT that you are less safe from gun violence with a gun in the house. If a burglar targets your house, he will make sure no one is home. If he’s a pro, he’ll steal your gun. Unless you’re always there with the gun in your hand, it’s more likely he’ll get the gun and use it than for you to use it for protection.

          Frankly, if a burglar came to my house looking for his next fix, he wouldn’t get much he could quickly convert to cash. The TVs are too large and the cable boxes wouldn’t do him any good. Maybe an old DVD player and this old computer. But if I had a gun collection, then he could really score.

          • BR549

            Jeff wrote: “If a burglar targets your house, he will make sure no one is home.”

            REALLY? While burglars have been preferring daytime intrusions more than nighttime, that figure had only started to change about ten years ago. It used to be about even; now, it might be double; something like that.

            But whatever the case, there are supposedly at least 2,000,000 crimes that have been thwarted by citizens legally owning and using guns.

            http://www.conservativepolitico.org/2012/12/more-gun-control-no.html
            (from that article)

            5. [The Claim that] Guns Aren’t Used in Defense
            A myth is that guns aren’t used in defense. Further, another myth is that the number I will soon use: 2.5 million defensive gun usages (DGU’s) each year are only based on one study… So lets list my countless examples [9]:
            Gary Mauser 1990: 1,487,342 DGU’s a year
            Gallup Polling 1991: 777,153 DGU’s each year
            Gallup polling 1993: 1,621,377 DGU’s each year
            LA times polling 1994: 3,609,682 DGU’s each year
            Tarrance 1994: 764,036 DGU’s
            That was overall US polling. When looking at every state and then multiplying the result in a way for the US statistic (NOTE: this is a proxy, and less accurate then above):
            California used as a proxy: 3,052,717 DGU’s
            Illinois: 1,414,544 DGU’s a year
            Ohio as a proxy: 771,043 DGU’s a year

      • JC

        Further to that thought JeffH…if you had a “registered” gun collection, it would probably end up on a criminals list of addresses to break into. The now defunct Gun Registry in Canada was hacked 35 or 40 times. Not to mention it collapsed and lost over 20,000 handguns at least once.

      • Joe H

        Got news jeff my BOY. since I have a CCW, my gun IS with me where ever I go. I have a safe too big to be carried out of my house and also one in my car. Come try to take it girly boy!

        • Jeff

          What a helluva guy! You must be very popular. I don’t imagine you get a lot of social invites.

      • JC

        Jeff says:
        December 30, 2012 at 2:31 pm
        Your post does not address the FACT that you are less safe from gun violence with a gun in the house.
        __________________________________________________________________

        In what way is that a fact? Simply because you say so?
        The FACT is that when I’m not home my guns are safe’d.
        When I am home, I have a loaded gun handy 3 days a week…come on over, kick
        in the door and see if you guessed correctly! . ;-)

        • Jeff

          Why would I want to? If I want to see a trailer, I’ll go to one locally.

    • Mike in MI

      JeffH –
      Thanks for that piece. He talks about the liberals affinity for laws having some sort of “talismanic” power in their minds, ideological structuring, whatever.
      Remember, “Liberalism” in its essence is derived from the religion of Humanism which has a specific codified system put together and revised at various times.
      To such worshipers, laws are drawn up supporting the codified, basic system. Sort of doctrines and sub-codes with penance and tithes (fees, fines and penalties).
      So, in effect the Humanists, denomination being termed Liberals, have set up a religion wedded to the government. They intend to have their system to replace anything already guiding the conduct of society. They think they can make it work harmoniously with established Constitution, legal systems and social order. All they need is enough science, enough superior intellectuals (like Obama and friends) and enough laws to help regulate people and everything important to life.

  • Harold Olsen

    Obama’s main reason for wanting to ban guns in this country has nothing to do with violence. It has to do with the Constitution. The Constitution gives us the right to bear arms. Obama hates the Constitution and the rights it gives to the American people. He wants to take those rights away from us. As do all despots, he is starting with trying to limit our freedom of speech and by disarming us.

    • Paul Wells

      Sadly, you are correct, sir! Obama is no friend of our Constitution, and the sooner people pull their heads out, and realize this, the better off we will be!

    • eddie47d

      Poppycock Harold Olsen and Paul Wells! Didn’t you notice how much you run your mouths around here. Did someone forget to inform you that that is free speech. Such hypocrites! You have free speech and use it all the time yet make a lame attempt to say you don’t ! The same with guns,the 2nd Amendment will be there tomorrow and it will be there next year and for a long long time. Just like I keep saying fear and paranoia rule your lives and you all keep claiming up is down and down is up! So Paul maybe you ought to pull your head out. Besides some of these authors lie to you everyday especially those who say the 2nd will be taken away. The big (assumed) problem is who is allowed to defend their home from an outside intrusion. Actually everyone is for that is a God given right yet all I hear is how defenseless folks will be from the “gun grabbers”. More poppycock from the right! That includes you Phideaux!

      • Karolyn

        I just spent some time on debunking and skeptic sites, and how refreshing it is to get confirmation of what is really true. I find that I spend so much time on this blog due to my addiction that my thinking gets skewed. It’s too bad people only spend time on sites that say the same thing over and over and never look at the opposing views. Without balance in what we put into our minds, we become paranoid sheep. What a small, closed little world to live in!

      • hipshotpercusion

        Diane Feinstein in 1993…”If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate to ban them all, I would have! Mr. and Mrs America, turn them all in. But, i couldn’t get the votes.” Eddie. Don’t pee on my leg and tell me it’s raining!

      • Capitalist at Birth

        Eddie and Karloyn. You are both either, ignorant or willing dupes. The reason for the Second Amendment, is to prevent the Tyranny of our Government against us, not the occasional criminal or unwanted intruder. I will not give up the right to defend myself against you and those like you, who wish to destroy the Constitutional Republic in which we live. If you think you are man/woman enough, come find me and see if you can do it yourself. You won’t, because you are both cowards. You will send armed agents to murder me because I will resist being enslaved, even if it means dying. I will die a fee man. Care to take me up on my challenge. I doubt you have the cajones.

      • Paul Wells

        Dumb comrade eddie right on queue….
        When they first implemented income tax in 1913, it was a ” temporary tax to help raise money for war”. No one thought it would become permanent, nor so onerous, but no one (strenuously) objected, so let there be income tax.

        When they first implemented welfare and social security as a formal government program in 1935, the welfare part of it was designed to help people through some really rough times, and it was never contemplated that more than a minority of people (that’s less than 15% overall) would partake of it. Social Security was designed as a “supplement” to income, never intending to be a one size fits all, retirement program, but no one objected, so let there be welfare.

        When Madeline Murray O’Hair started her assault on school prayer and religious displays in the 1960′s, not enough people complained, and it become law.

        Dear Dumb Eddie…do you see a pattern here? It’s idiots like you that cannot nor will not learn from the past, that we have to rise up against your blatant stupidity. I didn’t specifically include you in my suggestion for people to pull their heads out, because yours is permanently, and forever stuck up your anal cavity. There truly is NO HOPE for you!

      • DaveH

        Karolyn says — “It’s too bad people only spend time on sites that say the same thing over and over and never look at the opposing views”.
        Are you joking, Karolyn? You must be. Or maybe you’re consulting your lying Magic Mirror again?
        We’ve all been buried up to our eyeballs in the Propaganda as dished out by the Public Schools and the MSM.
        But feel free, Karolyn, to join the debate and, instead of your usual condescension, actually state some things you believe to be fact. If those opposing views are indeed valid, then you should have no problem exposing our errors.

      • JeffH

        Karolyn says, “It’s too bad people only spend time on sites that say the same thing over and over and never look at the opposing views”.

        Gee, it’s too bad that some people are so ignorant that they can’t tell the difference between a shill or the dummies that fall in line with the shills. Try debunking your own hypocrisy Karolyn!

        “Stupid is as stupid does!”
        -Mrs. Gump

        • Jeff

          “Stupid is as stupid does!”
          -Mrs. Gump

          “Sieg heil!”
          -JeffH

          Why do you assume only those posts agreeing with you are somehow legitimate on this blog and everyone else is a shill or a troll? I’m sure you’d have more colorful descriptions if only your dog hadn’t eaten your Thesaurus.

      • JUKEBOX

        Double poppycock on you Eddie. You are too infected with a terminal case of rectal cranial inversion to see that Obama and his minions are fans of MARTIAL law and executive orders.

      • JeffH

        Paul Wells, I see you’ve gotten to know eddie pretty well…of course you’ve also noticed that he’s not the brightest bulb in the lamp too.

        “None so blind as those that will not see.”
        – Matthew Henry

        “None so empty as those who are full of themselves.”
        – Benjamin Whichcote

      • JeffH

        My, my…look who the cat drug in…it’s the progressive child ignoramous, with the Nazi fetish, Jeff.

      • JeffH

        Jeff, FYI…I don’t think you’re a paid shill. I think you’re just a troll and just one of the dummies that fall in line with the shills.

      • Karolyn

        OK, Dave – There is plenty of material to persue here.
        http://thrivedebunked.wordpress.com/

      • eddie47d

        Hipshotpercushion: Yes it is peeing rain down your leg for she wants to ban all assault type weapons and if that includes your precious AR-15 then so be it . There is no requirement in the 2nd Amendment that says you need such a weapon and neither of us knows exactly if they would have included or excluded such weapons.

        • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

          Dear eddie47d,

          You write: “or she wants to ban all assault type weapons and if that includes your precious AR-15 then so be it . There is no requirement in the 2nd Amendment that says you need such a weapon…” Words mean things. Look up the word “infringed.” What gives you the moral authority to determine whether someone “needs” a particular weapon just because the way it looks frightens you?

          You write: “You write: “and neither of us knows exactly if they would have included or excluded such weapons.” http://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/assault-weapons You are truly dumber than a sack of hammers. Your anti-gun rants are infantile, ignorant, ludicrous ramblings of incoherence.

          Best wishes,
          Bob

      • DaveH

        Karolyn, I don’t get the pertinence of your comment.

      • Vicki

        eddie47d says:
        “Poppycock Harold Olsen and Paul Wells! Didn’t you notice how much you run your mouths around here.”

        Listened to yourself recently?

        eddie47d: “Such hypocrites! You have free speech and use it all the time yet make a lame attempt to say you don’t !”

        Are you saying that the ACLU is lame?
        http://www.aclu.org/free-speech

        About free speech.
        The plan
        http://www.ibtimes.com/obama-doctrine-censuring-free-speech-798541

        The law (already enacted)
        http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/mar/15/can-the-secret-service-tell-you-to-shut-up/

        Just one of many as can be seen in the ACLU list above.

        Eddie’s low credibility takes another hit (from actual facts).

      • Karolyn

        Dave – You more or less said I have nothing to back up my assertions after I posted about visiting sites with opposisng views. (suggesting I only visit msm sites). I posted a skeptic site filled with links to opposing views of those held by many here.

      • DaveH

        Aren’t you the one who was pushing the Thrive video, Karolyn?

      • DaveH

        Never mind, I answered my own question:
        http://personalliberty.com/2012/01/04/coming-in-2012-target-tehran/#comment-502839

        So, given that you were pushing the video, are you now questioning your own former position?
        Or maybe, you’ve just taken up talking to yourself. Or maybe, you are trying to upstage Eddie?

      • eddie47d

        Jukebox; Martial Law is something Nixon loved and G Bush encouraged so your pants are on fire again!

      • eddie47d

        Vickie is another one for she is practicing her 1st Amendment rights in her post. Then tries as says it isn’t so!

      • Kate8

        Good grief, eddie. The whole idea of the Second Amendment is to be able to keep government at bay.

        It’s already too lopsided… We actually need to have at least equal weaponry to what the government possesses. Otherwise, we may as well have none.

        What are you going to do when the gestapo come bursting through your door? You don’t think they will?

        The truth is, the goons in power have no use for liberals except during this phase of taking over a nation. You are tools, edduh. As soon as you are no longer of use, you will be among the first to go. These people despise ideologues, and have no intention of doing anything for the “good” of humanity. Quite the contrary.

        If you are successful in your endeavors to assist the NWO’s takeover in America, the irony is that the first blood that flows will be mingled with your own.

        Get a clue, people.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=WcAPJ-kn8Vs

        Take a look at some real sobering truths, ed. Watch this and then come back and talk about gun control.

      • Karolyn

        Yes, Dave, there are aspects of Thrive that I do agree with.

      • http://naver samurai

        It seems that ed does not understand that not only does it keep the government from being very oppressive to the people, it was also put in the Constitution to keep the government from taking our right to bear arms from us. BTW, all men between 18-60, in good physical and mental health, and that own firearms are the well regulated militia in each state. I guess that leaves ed out as he is more than 60 years old. Here is something for them to read:

        http://www.impeachobamacampaign.com/gun-control-or-violence-control/

        FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

        You need both love of country and faith in God to be a patriot.

        “As to Jesus of Nazareth, my opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the system of morals and his religion, as he left them to us, is the best the world ever saw, or is likely to see.”

        Benjamin Franklin

      • Mike in MI

        Sammy – There’s another drawback besides being over 60 years old:

        eddafor70 would never be permitted membership in something “Well Regulated”.

        • http://naver samurai

          D’oh! :-) :-) FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

          You need both love of country and faith in God to be a patriot.

          “I would probably have to say yes, that that Constitution established the United States of America as a Christian nation.”

          John McCain

          • macgyver1948

            samurai… Please educate us all. Where in the Constitution does it mention “Christianity”? Were the founders wrong when they spoke of “Separations Of Church And State” but really did not see the need for it? There is so much need for it and when people say what you say it shows all the more for the need.

            I know the Founders were mostly Christians but they knew there can in no way be any religion or any denomination dictating law because if there were there would be no need for or meaning to FREEDOM OF RELIGION. It would apply only to those with the power in favor of their religion.

            Think again in more of an American way before you say things like “that that Constitution established the United States of America as a Christian nation” which contradicts Liberty for all.

          • MLR

            macgyver1948
            I think maybe the seperation of church and state, was more for protection of the state from religion, than of religion from the state.

          • ZAR

            The term “Separation of Church and State” is not in the Constitution. The First Amendment is what its usually based upon, but if you honestly read the First Amendment, the idea that its there to protect the State from Religion becomes daft. In the same sentence it says Congress shall make no law regarding the Establishment of Religion, it also says they shall not abridge free Speech or Freedom of the press, or the Right to assemble. By the logic you employ, then, the Government enacted all of these to protect itself from Free Speech, a free Press, and free assembly.

            if you think the First Amendment as not to protect the government form our freedom of Speech, press, and assembly, but to protect us from Government control of our speech, press, and assembly, then you cant logically argue that the Religion bit is to protect the sate. its not only the same clause, but the same sentence.

          • macgyver1948

            ZAR… I do not think “Separation Of Church And State” belongs in with the First Amendment but it does belong in with “Freedom Of Religion” because it more so protects us all. No Church should be able to influence law making because no church should be able to dictate their doctrines on anyone but for those who chose to be part of that church. Would you enjoy being told your religious choice was wrong and you have to do it how another church sees fit? The Founders knew this so well and that is why we have Freedom Of Religion but the protection does not go far enough in the Constitution without “Separation Of Church And State”.

            Who is right, you or “The Constituti­on is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people; it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government – lest it come to dominate our lives and interests.­”- Patrick Henry -?

            The Constitution was written for us and not for Government. And Freedom Of Speech and Freedom Of Religion are not the same or they would not be in there separately. The same goes for FOS and SOCS. The Founders rarely made mistakes but not including “Separation Of Church And State” was one. We wouldn’t need to be discussing that if it wasn’t needed. Both pushing ones religious beliefs on others or denying others their religious beliefs in favor of “ours” shows the need.

          • ZAR

            I don’t really think you understand what I’m saying. I never suggested that people should be forced into one Religion or another, nor did I suggest that it’d be Right to do so.

            Instead, I simply noted that the term Separation Of Church and State is not in the Constitution, then proceeded to say that it is irrational to think the First Amendment was written to protect the State from Religion. It wasn’t. It was written to protect Religion from the State. America’s Founders didn’t want too much Governmental Interference in anything, be it commerce, private affairs or Religion. The First Amendment is about protecting Freedom of Religion, Speech, Press, and Assembly from Government intervention, it is not about protecting the Government from Religion whilst granting protection of the other things listed from the Government. There all in one sentence, and it simply can’t be read that way.

            Incidentally, having a State Church is not the same thing as having a Church your forced to go to. Look at the much reviled Church of England. No one is forced to be Anglican in the UK. No one was forced to be Anglican in 1776 in the UK. No one was forced to be Anglican even in the Time of the Pilgrims. State Churches aren’t in general impositional. Usually its the other way round, the Government dictates what the Church believes, no the Church what the Government will do.

          • macgyver1948

            ZAR… Ok we may misunderstand each other to some extent. The Founders would misunderstand you too I think. Freedom Of Religion is in the Constitution separately for a special reason. I never said “Separation Of Church And Sate” is in but instead say it should be considering how religious fanatics are insisting their ways even today. Also we saw in the Republican nominations debates there were some Christian candidates who were not so accepting of the another candidates form of Christianity as though they were superior in God’s eyes. If there is debate or disputes between same religion’s different denominations then think how it could be with totally different religions. This is why we need the protection of “Separation Of Church And Sate” in the Constitution along with Freedom Of Religion.

            No religion should dominate and very much not influence law because it would most likely be in their favor. Not in a free country should we have a “State Church” or even the hinting of a state church influence in law making. Where would the infringing end if we do once it starts?

          • ZAR

            I don’t’ think the Founders would have misunderstood me at all. My post was clear enough, you just filtered it via a presumption.

            There is no such thing as a nation in which Religion plays no role in the laws. In the same vein, there is no such thing as a person who has no Religion. We often say that people aren’t Religious, but if you look they really are, and everyone knows this. We just call it “Worldview” now and limit Religion to belief in a god of some sort. However, in practical terms, modern Secularism is really just a Religion in its own Right. Why should we run our society on Secularist values and Secularist morals? Who gets to decide what is and is not the Secular position on things?

            In reality, Secularism has morphed from neutrality in theological concerns, and into a Philosophy in its own Right, with its own moral codes, its own social demands, and its own perspective on how we should live and who we are. These beliefs are the same beliefs Religions pose, and I see no reason why Secularism ought be imposed on all of society. In fact, I find it hypocritical. If it is wrong to impose, say, Catholicism or Anglicanism, then it is just as wrong to impose Secularism.

            In a truly Free society, people would be permitted to engage in policy debates, even including their beliefs, and yes this includes Religion. While one Religion should not be imposed onto unwilling persons, we must be mindful that peoples Religion is not separable from how they see the world, for a Religion is by definition how one see’s the world. It is irrational to think that one should not bring ones Religion into legislation. It’s impossible not to.

            Why should Christians be excluded from the public discussion in a society in which they live? Why should Muslims or Jews for that matter? Why should we instead allow the Religion of Secularism to dominate? Why not let everyone bring their beliefs to the table and discuss them fairly?

            I see negotiation and compromise between the various Religious views superior to enforcing one Religion onto all others and calling it Secularism, and insisting tis not a Religion.

          • macgyver1948

            ZAR… I was more so expressing my feelings but I didn’t mean to offend you by saying the Founders wouldn’t understand you. I probably wouldn’t be so understood by them either because, as I stated in a previous post to you, we really do not know enough about them.

            When men form governments they bleed into it their feelings and beliefs so there would be religious influence in how the proceed if they are at least somewhat religious. I am only saying I believe the Founders felt it important to protect the religious beliefs of each citizen and that is why they do not get religious specific in the Constitution, not even with their own. This is not the case in many older governments. The Romans, for example, had huge Pagan influence in their governing because that is what they wanted.

            You say you “find it hypocritical. If it is wrong to impose, say, Catholicism or Anglicanism, then it is just as wrong to impose Secularism”. I so much disagree with this. I feel it would be wrong to impose the concepts of any religion on anyone and secularism, the indifference to or the exclusion of religion so we each can choose for ourselves, is vital to the very definition and soul of Liberty and Freedom. Would you want to be told you have to be circumcised for religious reasons? Would you want to be told Sunday is a wrong day to choose as a Sabbath day but instead Saturday, the 7th day of the week, is what God wants? I do not want to be told that Jesus is the Messiah for me when my Bible says the nature of demi-god or any entity that is not God is worthy of worship. I will not want to tell you Jesus is not your Messiah or that he is not worthy of your worship if he is for you. When I see how you structured your sentence, saying you “find it hypocritical … I see you saying in that it would be ok for government to impose their religious beliefs on us and for us to ignore or forget our own. Is this correct?

            We all have the right to include what we believe in discussions but not to allow our religious beliefs to be infused into law or in insisted ventures of proselytizing or conversion attempts. I say this because since I moved here to the mid west of the US from New Jersey, to the so-called Bible Belt, I have been met often enough with those kinds of attempts with bursts of anger because I refused to agree or convert. I agree that they should believe as they do but not to impose it on others after they receive a “no thank you” the first time. This is why it cannot influence law and must be left up to each of us to decide what we believe. All to often in history people were forced to choose to conform and be absorbed or be killed. Many invading nations did this and many of my ancestors in Europe were punished for being who they were religiously. Conform or else.

            You last paragraph in this thread “I see negotiation and compromise between the various Religious views superior to enforcing one Religion onto all others and calling it Secularism, and insisting tis not a Religion”.

            Discussion yes, for academic purposes, but what do you mean by “negotiation and compromise”? Do you mean if I cannot accept Jesus as my savor and lord, as per my current religion, I must if that is what the majority and/or law dictate? To be absorbed? Never gonna happen so please explain what you mean. I do not want to impose any of my beliefs on you so why would I allow the government or any religious organization/people to do that to me?

          • ZAR

            You really aren’t following what I’m saying so Ill repeat it.

            Secularism is not indifference towards Religion. Secularism,as it is used now, is a Religion in its own Right. The reason I oppose it is because there is a Secular Morality and Secular perspective on things, that is every bit as wrong to impose onto others as would a Catholic or Lutheran or Methodist View. Secularism stopped being about neutrality in Religious concerns a long Time ago, and nowadays Secularism is simply another Region. We just don’t call it that commonly.

            Why should anyone be forced to follow secular morals and lead a secular lifestyle in Public? And who gets to decide what is and is not Secular?

            I’m not arguing for the imposition of one Religion onto all persons, I’m arguing against imposing Secularism onto all persons because Secularism is itself a Religion. Not everyone agrees with Secularisms dogmas and doctrines. Why force people to act against their own consciences and desires based on a Secularists vision of how society should run?

          • macgyver1948

            ZAR… I saw that before when you mentioned Secularism but I was going by the definition and I wondered what you were saying, I did miss it before. I never saw the word used just like that before. I see now what you are saying, sorry about that. I agree with you if the word is used as you mean it here. One religion substituted for any others is the same, called Secularism or Catholicism or Judaism.

          • macgyver1948

            MLR… If I remember right the Founders wanted to leave “Separation Of Church And State” up to the states but they were very much for it. Personally I feel, considering what has been happening since the Founders time, they made a mistake by not including it in The Constitution. I agree with you when you say “the seperation of church and state, was more for protection of the state from religion, than of religion from the state” just like the Constitution itself is to protect the people from the government. Actually it was to protect each of us, not just the state, from organizations such as government and religion. For example we should remember why and from whom the Pilgrims felt the need to run from England and maybe more so why the Founders feared about King George in regard to his religious beliefs and demands. I think those who claim this is a Christian country seem to not realize what the Founders wanted in this regard.

          • ZAR

            I can understand bringing up the Pilgrims myth, but not King George. King George the Third didn’t make Religious Demands on the Colonies, and in fact was for Religious Liberty. Indeed, when Massachusetts wanted to impose on a town of Baptists an Anglican Minister to be supported by their Taxes, instead of a Baptist one, the town appealed to the King. Despite our imagining him as an unrelenting tyrant, and your post making him into a Religious Tyrant who demanded all obey his Church, the fact is, he actually sided with the Baptists and said that no one should be forced to support a Minister not of their choosing.

            King George the Third was not really a Tyrant in Religious Matters, or really a Tyrant at all.

            As for the Pilgrims, if we truly remember why they “had t flee England”, we’d see them less a Heroes. The story we’re all told and that’s engrained in us from Childhood that everyone was forced to go to the Church of England, and they didn’t want to, so left to worshipful God according tot he dictates of their conscience, isn’t True. The Pilgrims were Puritains who wanted the Church of England to change its form and beliefs. No one made them attend the Church of England, as Nonconformist Churches existed in England and Elizabeth the first had already granted Toleration for other Churches long before they came long. They wanted to force the Church to confirm to their wills, they weren’t trying to simply worship outside of it.

            The Pilgrims also weren’t all about Religious Liberty. The Plymouth colony didn’t allow you to vote in community affairs unless you belong to their Church and were am member in good standing. It wasn’t till Roger Smith founded Rhode Island that Religious Liberty was founded in New England, and he was a Baptist, not a Puritan. And he got his Charter from the horrible, evil, oppressive Monarchs himself. The Pilgrims were not really that great.

            So to recap, the Pilgrims were not forced to flee England for Religious Liberty, nor did King George make Religious Demands.

          • macgyver1948

            ZAR… What King George are you talking about? The Founders were not happy with his ways. And you seem to have a different history for the Pilgrims too on some levels. Ok, good for you. But who ever does it there cannot be specific religious influence in a free society and that is really my point.

          • ZAR

            The American Revolution was ostentatiously over Tax issues and a few other Political concerns. it matters little that America’s Founders didn’t like king Georges ways, since we’re discussing Religion, and none of their complaints against him in the Declaration of Independence or any other writing mentioned him imposing Religious standards on anyone.

            That said, most of the objections against the King they did offer were really Acts of Parliament. King George was not an absolute Monarch, but the Rebels didn’t want to anger Parliament as hey had supporters in it, so just blamed the King. never buy into propaganda written in a Revolution as Gospel truth.

            As for the Pilgrims, my different history is confirmed by Historians, both American and non-American. Its fairly easy to find the real story and even several “myth buster” websites will tell you as it really was. My history is different from the Myth we hear every year at Thanksgiving or that we are told as Children, but it is the actual Historical account.

            But one mistake I did make. it was not Roger Smith that founded Rhode island, but Roger Williams. With apologies.

          • macgyver1948

            ZAR… I agree that much of the issues for the Revolution were tax based but there were others. The famed Boston Tea Party, nothing to do with todays Tea Party, was about the protest by those of our colonists, over collected taxes not going to England as they were meant to but instead went into the pockets of wealthy business owners and the politicians they paid to make that happen. I suppose that was the start of the political/large corporate corruption connection in the new world. This is something the Founders often warned us about and is a huge problem today in many ways because we either choose to forget those warnings or we just don’t know about them.

            Yeah, this far away King George was not the big issue but being in charge he was the brunt of the blame. This is much the same as those who hate Obama today blame him for many of the woes we have encountered since the Revolutionary way, I guess. The then Congress, called the British Parliament, were the main problems then, as is our Congress these days (I bet that Parliament then also had a very low citizens rating) but as we seem to agree it is just easier to blame the guy on the throne and allow Congress do their business as usual.

            I wont argue with you about the Pilgrims but there is so much written concerning religious intolerance throughout history as well as why the Pilgrims left England in their time. A long time ago I began believing history was not only written by the victor of things but also according to how the individual historian wanted future generations to believe so who really knows. A variation to our theme, just as an example, is the differences in historical accounts between early English sailors to Japan and the Japanese versions of those visits.

            I suppose we can discuss forever whether the Founders wanted to make America a Christian nation or not but the real answers would elude us because there are no real answers that are available, only variations of opinions. With that said it would also depend on the historian we choose to read, as I suggest above, on this issue. We can suggest many different reference sites but it would depend on how much credibility we each would give to that site and its author(s). Below is an example I find interesting but who knows, it is the authors views but he does bring up some interesting food for thought and debate. Maybe many of us over look the fact that many of the Founders were influenced by their Christian beliefs because there is no mention of Christianity in The Constitution but God is. But it must mean something to them to deliberately leave out the word Christian in any form. As this author points out, if you read it, Religious anything was wanted to be left to the states, again why I think “Separation Of Church and State” was left out but the founders did discuss it. What do you think?
            http://www.heritage.org/research/lecture/2011/06/did-america-have-a-christian-founding

          • ZAR

            Even according to the Tea partiers themselves, the Boston tea Party was not about Businessmen gaining wealth rather than tax money being sent to England.

            below is from Columbia University.

            Boston Tea Party
            1773. In the contest between British Parliament and the American colonists before the Revolution, Parliament, when repealing the Townshend Acts, had retained the tea tax, partly as a symbol of its right to tax the colonies, partly to aid the financially embarrassed East India Company. The colonists tried to prevent the consignees from accepting taxed tea and were successful in New York and Philadelphia. At Charleston the tea was landed but was held in government warehouses. At Boston, three tea ships arrived and remained unloaded but Gov. Thomas Hutchinson refused to let the ships leave without first paying the duties. A group of indignant colonists, led by Samuel Adams, Paul Revere, and others, disguised themselves as Native Americans, boarded the ships on the night of Dec. 16, 1773, and threw the tea into the harbor. In reply Parliament passed the Boston Port Bill (see Intolerable Acts).
            See study by B. W. Labaree (1964).

            History is not written by the victors, but those who write, btu often Historians do tend to twist thigns to get peopel to see thigns their way, on that we agree. Still, the Revolutionary War wasnot all abotu a Tyrant king agaisnt Noble Rebles. in fact, the colonies really weren’t under oppression at all.

          • macgyver1948

            ZAR… Thanks for the Columbia U version of the real tea party thing, I did know that before.

            The East India Company was a very greedy English company and they were guilty of many sins, including buying the favors of our representatives. It is a usual common thing today too. I would have joined that tea party if I were there.

            The king was a scape goat but he was a small issue. He was to far away from here for him to really care about us but again Parliament was an issue. We do seem to agree on some things.

          • ZAR

            The East india Company wasnt greedy though. They provided cheap tea that was higher wuality than the illegally smuggled Tea.

            I know we want the Revolutionaries to be heroes but the tea Party was simply a criminal axct done by a mob over a reasonable taxation they had alreayd agreed to.

      • Mike in MI

        K88 -
        Jeezey Pete, that video says a lot about Socialism at its logical extents. You wonder how those firing squads could stand and shoot and shoot and shoot without getting nauseated or just generally overcome in those close quarters. The smoke, the bloody, sweaty body smells, no doubt people defecating and peeing themselves out of fear, the tortures…the willing participant perpetrators. It says something about the “basic goodness of humanity”.
        And here we areafter raising a generation of that sort who have no moral base or “core”.
        Yet, our contingent of libs here seem to think the world’s in its normal course…GHAAGH-H-h.

      • http://naver samurai

        First of all Mac, the quote I posted was said by John McCain. If you have a problem or question, then talk to him about it. Second, if you look at the Preamble of the Constitution, you will see the statement, “Secure the blessings of liberty” written. If our liberties are blessings, there has to be a divine being to be able to bless us with these liberties. Government sure can’t do it. Sheesh! That was easy. Why would you attack God being in the Constitution if you are Jewish? Don’t we both worship the same God? There is also no mentioning of separation of church and state in the Constitution. Why do you join the ranks of Jeffy and other 5th columners on this subject?
        Here is another lie by the libtards/progtards:

        http://www.impeachobamacampaign.com/left-claims-its-for-the-children-to-nullify-second-amendment/

        FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

        You need both love of country and faith in God to be a patriot.

        “Can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed a conviction that these liberties are the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with his wrath?”

        Thomas Jefferson

        • macgyver1948

          samurai… First of all samurai I did see where you were quoting John McCain. Secondly I do not care because you used it as though you agree. Third, “divine being”, which should be capitalized if you are referring to God, from the Preamble was the founders speaking of God and not of any particular religion. There is a huge difference between God and any religion, one is just a specific way of relating to God (otherwise why have all the different religions and more so, why the denominations? Which ones are right if there are such differences and arguments between them?). When you are as blindly wrong as you are it would be “Sheesh! That was easy” for you. No Religion, just talking about God in the Constitution and its Preamble.

          I did not attack God in the Constitution or in any other way and for you to say I did is what makes a person who does not know what he is talking about. I was only pointing out the fact that religion is not there. The Founders wanted moral influence in our lives and not any specific religion other than the choice we each make for ourselves. That is Freedom Of Religion since you do not understand that. It also means Freedom From Religion so do not contradict the Constitution by saying this is a Christan Country. Please do not tell me what I am doing when I am not doing what you claim. “Sheesh! That was easy”, LOL.

          By the way, what does being Jewish have to do with it especially since I wasn’t attacking God? As far as I know we do worship the same God but in different ways and I will not allow you to inflict your ways on me. I will however defend your ways for you. That too is real acceptance of Liberty. Liberty is meaningless if you want it only how you see it.

          If you feel the need to call others 5th columners, or whatever else you make up, then you should accept being called whatever we want to call you. I am not a 5th columnist and I bet Jeff has his own views on that. I bet many of us know “Separation Of Church And State” is not in the Constitution, for some reason the Founders felt the states should deal with it, but I feel it should be in with Freemon Of Religion and people like you go on proving why it should.

          Logistically speaking do you really feel it would encourage those who lean Left to view the link you offer if you offer it with “Here is another lie by the libtards/progtards”? You have got to be kidding if you think we wouldn’t go in wondering how much Right Wing propaganda it would be? Where is the credibility going in based on how you present it? Good going samurai, you really show you have that Right Wing mentality and no understanding of logic and people. I am really encouraged to check out the links you suggest after the insulting ways you present them.

          Your last line, a quote from Thomas Jefferson. Here too he is talking about God and not any specific religion. Do you even understand how to use a quote to support your positions? I wonder. And please do not compare or associate our religions in an attempt to prove your point unless you want the discuss the differences and contradictions between them. It is those differences and contradictions we need to protect and why we need “Separation Of Church And State” added to the constitution. The Founders knew this (except that they left it up to the states to protect us all in this), why don’t you?

      • Mike in MI

        Muck1948 – Too deep in it to keep your nose above, eh?
        Hey, why don’t you ever consider the fact that the Liberals’/ Retrogressives’ position is a religious stance. It is called the Humanist religion. It is a codified philosophical position that has a set of doctrines and rules about what humanity should be doing in regards to those rules. SCOTUS, I believe, adjudicated that their system of thought has all the earmarks of any other religion. That would be fine with me if that’s what they want to believe (they have the right)…BUT
        They want to make it the primary guiding principle of the nation – in place of other things where they think they have an interest.
        That is as much a ‘separation of church and state’ issue as anything you fear might look like Christianity – that you demand to have replaced. Not just removed but replaced by your man-derived system of failed propositions.
        Get out of my face with your silly, selfish, self-important garbage.

        • macgyver1948

          Mike in MI … Well, maybe because I do not see the Liberal side as a religious thing but it does include protecting religious rights for all. So what imaginary “fact” on our part are you making up and referring to?

          I am not against Christianity as you allude to but my points seem to some how guide you to invoke your little boy anger. Nice of you to not understand my intentions and meanings but instead decide for me what I mean. You seem so typical of the-angry-misinformed-by-your-leaders Right to be so childishly insulting in your tantrums. Who the hell would want to be close enough to you to be in your face? Enjoy your opinions, misguided as they are, because you are entitled to them. On this site all views and leanings are encouraged by Bob Livingston so this is not your one sided/(only our views allowed) kind of site.

    • Larry K.

      obama will have a hard time getting good people to give up their guns, what’s he going to do, put over a million gun owners in prison for not giving up their guns? he’s going to have trouble if he does and i mean real trouble.

      • Capitalist at Birth

        What do you think the ammunition being purchased by the Social Security Administration and FEMA are for? Have you ever visited a Social Security Administration office? Most, if not all have armed guards that are not only not friendly, they are outright hostile.

      • Capitalist at Birth

        They will have more guns and ammunition. If you resist you will be murdered.

      • eddie47d

        Capitalist at Birth: You don’t have the “cojones” to tell the truth and rely on fear and loathing! Your threats mean nothing to me and I won’t swallow your bad-ass games. (9:56)

      • Mike in MI

        Larry K -
        Go above and view that link that Kate8 cites on her 12/27 5:04 pm post.
        Then tell us if you still think the masses won’t just “go along, hoping to get along” or get swept up in some sort of evil oppressive (whatever it is ) “thing” that takes over people during crises.

      • Kate8

        Capitalist – A couple of thoughts about the ammo purchases come to mind:

        First, there are over 100,000 NATO troops here waiting for instructions. Are they here to do what many in our own military and law enforcement have pledged NOT to do against the American people?

        Second, we have the elite inciting revolution and chaos, and they, themselves, will need protection against a lot of really angry citizens.

        There is no doubt that they are up to no good and mean business. They are thinking that our days are numbered, there is no doubt that they are intentionally provoking us.

        • macgyver1948

          KATE*… Crap, if you are right about the NATO troops being here I would have to go military again and fight along side of our military and our citizens against them. If our “representatives” do that to us they deserve to be our enemies. But I choose to hope you are wrong.

          I too believe we are being intentionally provoked, as you say, but I believe it is by one side of the aisle more so than the other and still hoping your thinking is exaggerated. That is because that side is more so controlled by the wealthy and the big corporations but either way we have things to correct. I hope we can soon.

      • Right Brain Thinker

        Kate8 says: December 27, 2012 at 11:34 pm
        “First, there are over 100,000 NATO troops here waiting for instructions”.

        Could you tell us more about this?
        From what countries are these Nato troops?
        Where are they located in the U.S.?

      • Robert Smith

        Kate8 won’t say anything real because the claim is false.

        Rob

    • Jeff

      Your logic is unassailable. But your premise is utter B.S. as is your conclusion. Go play with your big gun. It’ll make you feel like a man. But don’t be surprised if that gun bites you in the ass long before you get to use it defending your castle against the forces of evil.

      • Vicki

        Over 100 MILLION guns failed to bite their owners in the ass today nor any day of their owners lives.

        ~2.5 MILLION guns defended their owners EVERY year of every life.
        http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcdguse.html (include links to disagreement)

        About 100 thousand or about 0.1% of the 100 Million guns bit someone.
        http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2011/04/24/accidental-v-intentional-fatal/
        (This link does not provide info on who the owner was vs the victim.)

        Now what.

      • Bill

        Jeff,
        I like playing with my big guns, but when the get a little loud I go back to my trusted 9mm

      • http://naver samurai

        I see Jeefy’s problem, he’s a sissy. He’s one of those bleeding heart cases. Here is something that talks about gun violence escalating when there is gun controll installed:

        http://www.impeachobamacampaign.com/gun-control-actually-increases-gun-violence/

        FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!

        You need both love of country and faith in God to be a patriot.

        “Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it.”

        Thomas Paine

        *Notice he makes a reference to a blesser.

      • Mike in MI

        jeff -
        Pretty sure you think you know how and what runs the “mass-mind” aren’t you? You’ve lived in a stinking cocoon all your life, never been really challenged by much of anything, never ventured to extend yourself or been forced to deal with things when you couldn’t run to your little “safety cave”.
        But, you’ve got everything all combed through and ginned out,… you think. He – He, Sheee it. Toad.

      • Robert Smith

        Samurai says: “You need both love of country and faith in God to be a patriot.”

        Nope. You can check out: http://militaryatheists.org/atheists-in-foxholes/

        One doesn’t need to worship your brutal god (killed everyone in a floot except Noah and his kin… Lots of kids in the world at that time I’ll bet).

        Rob

    • Myava Buchanan

      Yes, I agree with Harold Olsen, Big Government is NOT part of our USA Constitution. The U.S. Constitution gave us the rights to bear arms. given to us by Our Founding Fathers, Benjamin Franklin is the one of Founding Fathers. It did not say what kind or specific guns that we can buy and owns and it only said “The Rights to Bear Arms” so that mean any type of guns are illegal. such as Bushmaster AR-15 assault-type weapons with high capacity magazines a glock 10 millimeter and more.
      It’s not the guns that are hurting innocent people. It’s not the assault weapon or the high powered rifles or the hand guns that people are carry. It’s people that are distrubed that have that want to hurt people that’s doing it. so guns are not the problem. it’s people’s making bad choice. Obama is not from U.S. and He hate America. He want to have full control of America. We must not allow him.

      • eddie47d

        I didn’t know Ben Franklin carried a Bushmaster? I do know alot of you were masters to Bush’s policies though.

      • Vicki

        Myava Buchanan writes:
        “The U.S. Constitution gave us the rights to bear arms.”

        God gave us the right. The Constitution is a contract with government to PROTECT that right. A contract that the current agents of government are in default of.

      • Vicki

        eddie47d says:
        “I didn’t know Ben Franklin carried a Bushmaster? ”

        Bushmaster Hadn’t been invented yet. Ol’e ben likely did carry the equivalent rifle for the time. (And eddie wonders why his credibility here is only just above that of flashy.)

      • eddie47d

        I knew that Vickie! I thought you had me figured out bur apparently not! The sarcasm must have went over your head.

      • JC

        eddie47d says:
        December 27, 2012 at 12:50 pm
        I didn’t know Ben Franklin carried a Bushmaster? I do know alot of you were masters to Bush’s policies though.
        ______________________________________________________________
        Twisted…pointless…freak!

      • Joe H

        eddie,
        If perhaps, you used that pea brain for something besides controlling the echo in your skull, you would know Franklin carried the most advanced weapon of the time, A musket. His personal weapon was equal to that of the military.

      • Robert Smith

        Vicki says about guns in America: “God gave us the right. ”

        Nope. “WE THE PEOPLE…”

        Please quit lying about what makes the United States of America Constitution.

        You “claim” to support it, but then defalut to the brutal god that killed all the kids in Sodom except Lott’s, who he had sex with.

        Sheesh…

        Rob

  • Louis Lemieux

    Guns in the wrong hands ruins lives!

    • Capitalist at Birth

      What is your point? That is an inane observation if I have ever heard one. Obvious, to even a person with an IQ of 90.

    • JUKEBOX

      The best example of this is Eric Holder with FAST & FURIOUS.

    • Vicki

      Louis Lemieux says a truism:
      “Guns in the wrong hands ruins lives!”

      Which is why guns in the right hands save lives. Since this is often a moment to moment decision we must leave guns in the hands of the (intended) victims so that they can efficiently neutralize the treat posed by guns in the wrong hands.
      http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/493636.html

      • Financially Insecure John

        Vicki,
        look at your wrist, they are getting ready to be cut………………………….

      • Vicki

        Your going to have to “splain” that comment. It fails to translate to the current discussion.

    • Bill

      Louis,
      You mean in the hands of our current tyrannical government?

    • Don

      Must the innocent law abiding citizens pay for the doings of the few.

  • http://twitter.com/frank95054 Legatus legionis (@frank95054)

    I am not by a long shot an Obama supporter. However, the last time I checked, it was Congress that held the purse strings. So, if Obama added $6 Trillion in Debt during his first four years, then Congress wan an accomplice. A Republican Congress at that!

    • STEVE E.

      That’s why we need Libertarians to be elected in offices. That would not happen then.

      • DaveH

        Well it might if we don’t carefully vet our candidates. There have been a number of Libertarians in Name Only in the past several elections.
        Gary Johnson isn’t one of them though:
        http://www.garyjohnson2012.com/front

      • Robert Smith

        Bob Barr wasn’t really a libritarian either.

        But that’s understandable. That party doesn’t count since Lyndon LaRoach was caught and went to jail. Anyone can be a candidate, regardless of how much they want to screw Americans.

        Rob

        • BR549

          Robert Smith wrote: “Bob Barr wasn’t really a libritarian either. But that’s understandable. That party doesn’t count since Lyndon LaRoach was caught and went to jail. Anyone can be a candidate, regardless of how much they want to screw Americans.”

          Interesting. Geittner hadn’t paid his taxes, but that was OK. LaRouche hadn’t paid his and it’s on national news AND he serves time.

          It wouldn’t have anything to do with the fact that LaRouche was researching Kissinger’s involvement in conspiring against the US and that he (Kissinger) asked the FBI to step in, would it?

          • Jeff

            I think Kissinger is probably a war criminal, but with enemies like Lyndon LaRouche (Why are so many of your allies virtually illiterate?), he can’t be all bad.

    • NativeBlood

      Well now, why is it that Democrats forget that first 2 years of Pres obama’s tour as CIC,
      he enjoyed a near supermajority. 2 years to do a lot of damage. Can’t blame repubcrats
      for everything during his eighture.

      • Vicki

        Because democrats only think in a very narrow slice of time. They tend to forget that there is a past and thus history and thus are doomed to repeat.

      • Robert Smith

        Yes Vicki, the right wing has many ways to be obstructionists, even when they are a minority and not representing most Americans.

        Rob

    • Capitalist at Birth

      The Republicans regained the majority and were sworn into office in January of 2011. they submitted a reduction in spending budget twice and it sat on Harry Reid’s desk. Just thought you might like to be aware of some facts before you begin spouting off false accusations.

    • James Andrews

      Actually, the formerly democratic Congress, under both Bush and Owebama, spent more money in their four year reign, than all of the other former Congresses COMBINED, throughout history of this nation! So don’t just blame the Republicans!

      • Jeff

        I know it is in your DNA to start complaining about the deficit the moment a Democrat gets elected President and to find a way to blame the Democrats for everything bad done by a Republican, but here are the real sources of the deficit. Notice how little Obama’s policies have contributed. In case you hadn’t noticed, the Bush Tax Cuts and wars didn’t end on January 20, 2009.

        http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/05/obama-romney-deficit-debt-chart.php

      • DaveH

        The buck stops with the current President, Jeff. There has been nothing at all to prevent him from decreasing the Spending.

        • Jeff

          The reason people are so concerned about the “fiscal cliff” is because suddenly reducing government spending by so much will destroy the recovery and throw us into recession or depression. It was the great insight of Keynes that when demand disappears from the economy, the government must step in and provide it. The Depression ended with WWII. Economically speaking, what was WWII but a huge government spending program? The pure “free market” was a myth in Adam Smith’s day and more of one today.

      • eddie47d

        If there wasn’t the huge Bush deficit there may not be this huge Obama deficit. So apparently the buck didn’t stop with Bush!

      • DaveH

        Did anybody here defend Bush’s Spending, Eddie?
        What has that got to do with anything?

      • JC

        Jeff says:
        December 27, 2012 at 10:49 am
        The reason people are so concerned about the “fiscal cliff” is because suddenly reducing government spending by so much will destroy the recovery and throw us into recession or depression. It was the great insight of Keynes that when demand disappears from the economy, the government must step in and provide it.
        __________________________________________________________________

        “By a continuing process of inflation, government can confiscate, secretly and unobserved, an important part of the wealth of their citizens.”
        John Maynard Keynes

        “I work for a government I despise for ends I think criminal.”
        John Maynard Keynes

      • DaveH

        Jeff says — “It was the great insight of Keynes that when demand disappears from the economy, the government must step in and provide it”.
        That is just about the most ignorant thing I’ve seen come out of Jeff’s mouth, and he’s said some pretty ignorant things. If a good economy is something Government can turn on by boosting the money supply, Jeff, just why are there so many poor countries? Are you saying they can’t figure out how to print more money?
        Oddly enough, you’ve been given all the opportunity to learn better, Jeff, but you choose instead to denigrate those who are trying to teach you.
        It doesn’t matter how much people “demand” something if they can’t exchange something of value to get that product. Usually that something of value is money that they earned from producing products that other people desire. To think that increasing the money supply is anything other than robbery, of those people who have cash savings, is just plain ludicrous.
        By diminishing the value of their savings, those victims of money creation become less able to “demand” new products. At the very least, the decreased “demand” of those robbery victims offsets the increased “demand” of those who got the Government largess of new money. But worse than that is that the victims become discouraged and work less, thus producing less, so it becomes worse than just a zero-sum loss to the economy. Plus, due to increased monetary demand for the existing Capital Goods (machinery and the like) their prices go up and become even less affordable for those who would have used them to spur productivity.
        Add to that the fact that, whenever people get a windfall of unearned money, they tend to waste it on Unproductive pursuits.
        Now I will have to endure some more name-calling from Jeff since he has no logical rebut to my comment.

        • Jeff

          And what happens to those who work hard, build up a little savings, and are wiped out in one of the regularly-scheduled recessions/depressions/banking crises that are inevitable in the kind of “pure” economy you keep pushing? As long as you’re not one of them, you couldn’t care less. The New Deal reforms kept that from happening for half a century. The economic system is here to serve us, not vice versa.

      • JC

        Jeff says:
        December 27, 2012 at 7:39 pm
        And what happens to those who work hard, build up a little savings, and are wiped out in one of the regularly-scheduled recessions/depressions/banking crises that are inevitable in the kind of “pure” economy you keep pushing?
        ____________________________________________________________________

        What you’ve just described is inevitable as long as we have a fractional reserve banking system (owned by foreigners) and Keynesian Economics…it’s a series of bubbles.

    • DaveH

      Legatus says — “So, if Obama added $6 Trillion in Debt during his first four years, then Congress wan an accomplice. A Republican Congress at that!”.
      Two problems with that statement, Legatus:
      1) This isn’t a pro-Republican web site.
      2) Only the House of Representatives is controlled by Republicans. The Senate is controlled by Democrats:
      http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0774721.html

    • Average Joe

      “A Republican Congress at that!”

      Oh?
      You do realize thar “Congress” consists of both the House and the Senate. right?
      You do realize that the House is controlled by Republicans and that the Senate is controlled by the Democrats, right?
      I am sure that you understand how Bills get passed too…right?…. House originates the Bill, then the Senate either votes for, against or doesn’t allow it to the floor at all. Once voted, it either goes to the President’s desk for signing, or it goes back to the House to be re-worked. In the last 4 years, more often than not, anything that the Republican’s have put forth in the House, the Democratic Senate ( led by Harry Reid) has refuse to bring to a vote…hell they haven’t even passed a budget in over 4 years. The one thing that they were hired (elected?) to do….PASS a budget..and they can’t even do that….

      I blame it on Stupid Americans..who continue to vote for these same stupid idiots…who continue to drag our Nation through the mud…all the while waving their Patriotic flags and screaming,”it’s for the kids”.

      Vote Libertarian, vote Independent…vote anything but Dem/ Repub…..

  • http://yahoo.com Frank

    Obama hates Christians, the Military, the Constitution, Guns, white people, and freedom!! Their will be a War as he will not stop trying to destroy all of the above!!

    • eddie47d

      You made 6 glaring lies in one short statement Frank! More paranoia and fear from the far right fringes!

      • Karolyn

        Amen!

      • hipshotpercusion

        I don’t know if O-homo hates white people but his wife is quoted as at least having a strong dislike for us. White folks that is.

      • Randy G

        Eddie— Your brain is definitely on the wrong end of the Spinal Cord

      • Capitalist at Birth

        You and Karoylyn are will dupes or pure and simple ignorant slugs.

      • Larry K.

        I don’t think he did.

      • DaveH

        Neither Frank, nor Eddie, nor Karolyn, knows what Obama hates or not. Only Obama knows that. Well, Karolyn might be able to consult her Magic Mirror, but it lies to her anyway.

      • JeffH

        Dave H, do not forget that eddie knows everything, in his own delusional way, and he’s always ready to prove it…in his own delusional way.

      • eddie47d

        Your no Shepard Jeff H but only one of many sheeple who these right wing sites fleece! Baaaaa!

      • DaveH

        Baaaa? What kind of noise do Trolls make, Eddie?

      • JeffH

        Keep posting ignoramous eddie. If you couldn’t post something stupid, you’d post nothing at all.

      • Average Joe

        When E.F.Hutton speaks, people listen.
        When eddie47d speaks, people laugh….hysterically…..

        The eddiot mantra:

        “I don’t believe it. Prove it to me and I still won’t believe it.”
        Douglas Adams

      • JeffH

        AJ, :) you made me chuckle with that one.

    • nc

      Frank, all of what you “predict” was supposed to have happened BEFORE the 2012 election! Not only did it NOT happen, the American people have already voted on that fact!!
      The right uses figures of THE NUMBER people who carry guns to prevent crimes they think might happen as proof of the necessity to carry guns. Carrying a gun because you are afraid of something that hasn’t happened is PARANOIA! Paranoia is not a statistic!!! IT IS A MENTAL DISEASE! Back when fewer people carried guns there were fewer people killed by guns!

      • tony newbill

        You Know this Video is just astonishing !!!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=BT1yqBZQOTs

      • hipshotpercusion

        nc…I live in Florida. I like 1,000,640 or so of my fellow citizens carry a weapon. We are the 4th most populous State in the union and have drug problems like anywhere else. But, our violent crime and murder rate is lower than say Illinois and Chicago in particular. As economist John Lott wrote in his book “More Guns Equal Less Crime.”

      • Capitalist at Birth

        Your lies are not supported by the statistics. The facts are exactly the opposite. Would you care to publish the articles or literature where you got these assertions? Are you a card carrying member of the Communist Party?

      • Larry K.

        that’s not paranoia that’s being prepared to save his, his family and yes your sorry a$$.

      • DaveH

        NC says — “Carrying a gun because you are afraid of something that hasn’t happened is PARANOIA! Paranoia is not a statistic!!! IT IS A MENTAL DISEASE! Back when fewer people carried guns there were fewer people killed by guns!”.
        You poor sick old man, nc. Do you still think your shouting makes your nonsensical arguments valid?
        Note that NC uses the Liberal Progressive equivocal trick of talking about “fewer people killed by guns”. But I’m betting that you couldn’t even back that up, NC, with actual facts.
        Meanwhile, the rest of us don’t care if people are killed with guns, knives, hammers, electrical ties, neckerchiefs, ties, or anything else. We just want to be able to protect ourselves from the killers.
        For those who would like to be less ignorant than NC:
        http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm

        Notice that the rate of murders (second chart) were relatively constant until the Gun Control started in earnest after the Kennedy Assassination. Then after the Robert Kennedy and the Martin Luthor King killings took place we got the Gun Control Act of 1968.
        Then over the next 2 decades there were many more gun controlling laws passed.
        In the years after 1990, an increasing number of states started allowing Concealed Carry permits, and 4 states even have no restrictions on Concealed Carry. See the Concealed Carry Shall Issue map in my next comment.

      • DaveH

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rtc.gif

        So compare the growing number of Shall Issue states with the actual number of murders and violent crimes in the US since 1990 in the chart in my above comment.
        The murder rate was 9.8 per 100,000 in 1991, and has been dropping since to the rate of 4.7 in 2011. Clearly the increased number of Concealed Carriers hasn’t resulted in more murders. In fact the rate has been Halved.
        So, in the face of those kind of contrary statistics, NC and his Liberal Progressives are still trying to make helpless victims out of the rest of us. I can see them restraining people while a thug beats the tar out of those people.
        And he calls us “mentally diseased”?

      • JC

        NC says — “Carrying a gun because you are afraid of something that hasn’t happened is PARANOIA! Paranoia is not a statistic!!! IT IS A MENTAL DISEASE!
        _____________________________________________________________________

        Am I planning a flat tire? No! But I carry a spare, just in case.
        Am I planning a house fire? NO! But I have fire extinguishers just in case.

        That makes me paranoid?
        It isn’t paranoia moron…it’s just good planning. :)

      • Kate8

        tony newbill – Yep. Too bad we have a Congress and SCOTUS, as well as pretty much every other branch of governance, who have sold us out right along with their pal, Barack.
        Otherwise we might be able to present a case of treason against him.

        As it is, it doesn’t matter how strong the evidence is. Not one judge will rule against O.

        Judge Roll did, and you know what happened to him.

      • Joe H

        nc,
        Do you carry insurance on your car? Life insurance? Health insurance? Man!!! Are YOU ever paranoid!!!!!!

    • NativeBlood

      I’m afraid it is too late..the damage has already been done.

    • Myava Buchanan

      Total agree with Frank, I am sure Big Governments office and their homes have their guns. If they tried to take our guns away from us. We will not giving up to them. We will fight for our rights. They will have to kill us to get the weapons. We are losing our Freedom and We must fight back to keep our Freedom. Stay Stand on FAITH.
      many people loss their jobs and cars and houses. many more… look at four years what obama did to us.. it is starting fall apart.. Obama plan slowing and secret to destroy our freedom and our rights. and Obama is good at manipulate on many things. people who vote Obama are stupid and blind… Obama and his wife hate America and they support Muslim. One day Obama will let more Muslim people come in U.S. and take over control. that why he want to take away our rights with guns. We must keep the Great Fights for our right. It’s our homeland. Obama is from Kenya. n not U.S. citizen. He has no right to run the president at the first place.

      • Neil Swan

        Myava Buchanan your trying to say that more than half
        of the people in America are stupider than you.

        Neil

      • Kate8

        You are right, Myava. Unless we get some help from military patriots, we are in deep trouble.

        I did see where Obama is planning to send overseas all of the military troops pledged to defend the American people. He wants them out of the way. Already they are being “suicided” in greater numbers than are dying in combat zones.

        I’m concerned that if we don’t see some action soon it will be too late.

    • czman75

      Think you left your brain at home today. ovomit hates everything you stated except himself. Your are way out in “LEFT” field with that statement.

  • Peter

    Logical conclusions:
    As the NRA have said, “Put armed guards in every entrance of every school in the USA.” But what does that lead to?
    Nutters will then look to easier targets.
    Shopping Malls? Probably.
    So then we need armed guards on every entrance to every shopping mall in the USA.
    Ok, so what happens then?
    Public buildings? Half of which are already guarded, but what about the ones that aren’t?
    OK, so then we need armed guards on every entrance to every public building in the USA.
    What happens then?
    Public open spaces?
    So we need armed guards on every street corner of every town in the USA.

    What will all this cost?
    Arms manufacturers will adore it.
    Big government will adore it.
    What happens to your civil liberties and basic freedoms under these very real scenarios?
    Too bad kid, you lose.
    Do you want to be safe from nutters? This is what you will eventually need to be safe.
    But it doesn’t guarantee absolute safety.
    What if one of the guards goes postal?
    Can’t happen?
    Crap.

    What about targetting mental health?
    OK, how does that happen?
    You have a Mom with a deranged kid who at 10 years old threatens to kill her and everyone around her, including his/her classmates.
    The Mom approaches juvenile health services under either Obamacare or insured health.
    Both try to belittle the circumstances and send the kid home so he/she doesn’t cost the public/insurance purse too much.
    The cops can’t forcibly enter the family home, even at the direct request of the Mom, because the kid hasn’t actually committed a crime, he/she has only threatend a crime.

    If you then legislate to allow cops or juvenile health to detain kids like this (and there are many of them), where does it stop and who decides whether or not the kid (or adult) is mentally unstable?
    Who gets to draw the line?

    Bottom line? This whole ugly question needs much more than just a gun discussion or just a mental health discussion.

    It needs a wholistic approach across the USA.

    Here endeth the lesson :-)

    • STEVE E.

      Where I Iive the only gun free zones are schools and some government offices. Everywhere else a citizen can open or concealed carry. So there is no problem there.

      • http://yahoo.com Frank

        The government offices have guns!!!

    • eddie47d

      The NRA and GOA are demanding a police state which the the right “supposedly” loathes. Go figure! The more police we have in every nook and cranny the more power that police state will have. As we demand more security with cameras and guns your every move will be recorded and action will be taken by that police state. Be careful for what you wish for because you are the ones inviting it in!

      • hipshotpercusion

        Eddie, please show me any proof that GOA or Larry Pratt stated that.

      • JC

        Wow eddie…way out there again today…
        The only thing obvious from your seriously twisted (normal for you) statement,
        is that you’re still putting Scotch on your Corn Flakes.

        It must be so difficult to be you.

      • DaveH

        Eddie says — “The NRA and GOA are demanding a police state which the the right “supposedly” loathes”.
        I pronounce you Liar, Eddie. Prove me wrong if you can.

      • eddie47d

        I told you that yesterday Dave H about Larry Pratt and the GOA. Remember how he wanted to control American culture like he had learned from his time in Guatemala. Roving bands of death squads to keep citizens in line! What he endorsed is worse than a police state!

      • DaveH

        Eddie, apparently you haven’t gotten the message — Words coming out of your conjectural mouth aren’t “proof” of anything. Do you have some references to back up your claims?

      • Vicki

        eddie47d says:
        “I told you that yesterday Dave H about Larry Pratt and the GOA.”

        And you offered what evidence beyond your “proof by bald assertion”?
        As several of us have pointed out you have a VERY low credibility. That comment above is NOT improving it.

      • Average Joe

        DaveH,
        “Do you have some references to back up your claims?”

        Momentary lapse of reason?…We are after all talking about eddie here….
        His words alone are all that is needed…how dare you be sacreligious by asking for any proof.
        We’ll have none of that around here Mr.!!!!
        Please Mr. eddiesan forgive us for doubting your Holy Word alone
        Please do not punish us by saying something else that is completely STUPID and completely out in left field……and…as you tend to do….without anything other than your personal opinion…to support your claims…half-wit!

        AJ

      • eddie47d

        If I want proof I look it up A.J. you ought to try it and bring your own facts to the table. I’m actually on the GOA’s mailing list so I know what they are up to. Obviously I looked a little deeper and outside their propaganda to find out more about them!. Now go do your own research!

      • Kate8

        eddie – If by police state you mean citizen watchmen (minutemen) to keep government run law enforcement in line, then I say to go for it.

        I’d much rather see militia guarding public places than overarmed police squads.

      • Average Joe

        “I’m actually on the GOA’s mailing list so I know what they are up to.”
        And you were expecting a medal? or a chest to pin it to?
        You are on the mailing list…big deal, it doesn’t make you a supporter of guns or the 2nd Amendment…anymore than being on PLD’s mailing list makes you a Conservative……..

        Do you ever get tired of blowing smoke up your own backside around here?…Apparently not…you seem to do it so often…..
        There really is a special kind of stupid reserved for folks like you eddie…..enjoy it.

        AJ

    • Paul Wells

      Interesting observations, Peter. Really, it’s only when they started letting institutionalized people out of those institutions back in the 80′s & 90′s (at the request/insistence of the liberal left, I might add) that we started having problems like this. It would be far cheaper as you point out to keep nutcases out of the general population, particularly when they show violent tendencies.

    • Larry K.

      no body is saying this is the best we have but it will have to do until something better comes along . it’s true, we do need better mental health care but even with that, there is evil out there and nothing can be done to stop it, but try and control it the best we can.

    • Vicki

      Peter writes:
      “Bottom line? This whole ugly question needs much more than just a gun discussion or just a mental health discussion.

      It needs a wholistic approach across the USA.”

      And that holistic approach was invented over 200 YEARS ago. And maybe even before that. They even documented the approach and put it in the Constitution of the United States.

      Give us back the best tools for self defense and we will NEUTRALIZE the threat REGARDLESS of the cause.

  • Scott

    In the Connt shooting, when the first reposrts came out a police officer said they found the shooters car, before he was even found and identified, because there was an assault rifle on the seat. Later there was even a video on the news showing them taken it out of the car. The police also reported that he used 2 hand guns. Then later that day, after the government got involvedd the story changed that he used and assault rifle and the video of them taking it out pf the car disapperaed. What lies to use a tragedy to get what they want, to disarm every law abiding american

    • eddie47d

      He had 3 weapons on him in the school and at least one in the car. Although I heard one was found in the trunk. Would it make any difference if he killed with one gun or had 10? Typically righty more concerned about himself instead of dead kids.

      • tony newbill

        Its time to grow the economy and increase tax revenues from Economic growth that can fund the schools needed security !!!!

      • hipshotpercusion

        Eddie, what ever happened to the 2 men who were chased down outside and cuffed up?

      • DaveH

        Eddie says — “Would it make any difference if he killed with one gun or had 10?”.
        That’s odd because yesterday Eddie was railing about the dangerous people who had large gun collections:
        http://personalliberty.com/2012/12/26/three-gs-in-unlucky-13/#comment-792594

        Make up your mind, Troll.

      • CZ52

        eddie your posts are the ONLY place I have seen it reported that there were three guns found on the shooter. Please provide some sources for that claim. For most of two days the Conn. police said that he had two pistols and did the shooting with them. Since there is a big difference in the appearance of 223 casings and 9mm casings are you saying the Conn police are so incompatant they do not know the difference? Are you saying the Conn police are blind that it took them two days to realize there was a third weapon in the shooters posession? How do you explain the fact that it was only after the coroner said the kids were shot with a rifle that the cops pon the scene realized the empty casings were from a rifle not a pistol?

      • eddie47d

        CZ52 maybe you better prove what Hishotpercushion said instead of demanding proof from me. That would have been on every news outlet throughout the country if true. I was going to bring up that coroner report also which rather proves the Bushmaster was used.I can only report what I see and hear no different than you.

      • eddie47d

        Dave H Interpreting for me again? You do that alot lately! Maybe someday you will get it right!

      • Vicki

        eddie47d says:
        “He had 3 weapons on him in the school and at least one in the car. ”

        Really? You were there huh? That would mean you are either one of the mysterious people reported at the scene or you are a government agent. Interesting. Shill not troll.

      • JC

        Well eddie, let’s see…
        The school was littered with .223 ammunition. None of the “4″ handguns found fires .223
        The only weapon found that fires .223 was found in the trunk of Adam Lanza’s car.
        Since he supposedly killed himself in the school, how did he use the AR in the trunk?
        And who were the 2 other guys arrested? And isn’t it an odd coincidence that Adam Lanza’s father was scheduled to testify at the Libor trial (banking scandal)…and so was the father of James Egan Holmes…small world aint it?

      • eddie47d

        You sure are in the spin zone CJ! Trying to tie everything into another conspiracy? I could say John Hinckley was a strong Republican supporter so he worked with the Republican Party and used his son to shoot at Reagan in order to gain control for himself! Enough of your game playing and conjectures for we can all do that.

      • JeffH

        JC, I think the rumor that the two fathers were scheduled to testify at the LIBOR hearings is probably an internet myth. I haven’t found anything concrete that supports that rumor.

      • JC

        Fair enough Jeff. I’ll do some more homework before I post anything about it again.

      • JC

        eddie47d says:
        December 27, 2012 at 5:27 pm
        You sure are in the spin zone CJ! Trying to tie everything into another conspiracy?
        _________________________________________________________________

        Well, you insane little bug…
        Jeff was kind enough to point out that I may be in error regarding the LIBOR Scandal and I’ll concede the point until I can verify…

        As for the physical evidence…how is that spin zone?
        It’s real and indisputable…no long gun was used by Adam Lanza inside the school.
        FOUR handguns were found…
        Spin That!

        • BR549

          JC wrote: “It’s real and indisputable…no long gun was used by Adam Lanza inside the school.”

          I believe the medical examiner said in his preliminary investigation that all of the children had been killed with long gun rounds (correct me if I’m wrong), but what is the latest info on Lanza having used only pistols?

          The media is (was) in such a frenzy to be the first on the air, they don’t even care if what they report is the truth. What happened to the “two cars”, the “guy in the woods”, and the report from one of the children (I believe) that authorities had handcuffed someone in the hallway who was saying, “Don’t shoot”, (or something like that)? Too many unknowns.

      • JC

        JC says:
        December 29, 2012 at 10:41 pm
        BR549,

        Start here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_fI0hm1dqY

        There’s a few more videos on the same page.
        And no shortage of good questions being asked…

        • BR549

          JC (one of the clearer heads here) wrote: “… no shortage of good questions being asked…”

          I think one of the major problems we have is that the masses have become used to confiding in news media sources which, over the years, had been seen as honest, objective stalwarts of journalistic integrity. Then we found out that even journalistic father Cronkite was lying to us about Viet Nam, and it’s all gone downhill from there. Cronkite did a damn good job of feeding the masses their daily dose of government pablum, but what made it work was that …… they did not know about it.

          And nothing has changed. In Sandy Hook, one cop is telling us that all the shootings were from pistols, while the medical examiner had stated that the first seven bodies he had examined had all been killed by long guns. Lanza’s AR15 was supposedly in the front seat of his car, yet there also appears to have been a shotgun or whatever in the trunk. It’s a circus, and meanwhile, the anti gun people have all lined up to buy tickets to the “scariest show in town”, panting and salivating all the way to the ticket booth.

          One thing is for sure, as RT has reported this morning, Obama has been the greatest gun salesman the industry could have ever asked for. This response, in part, being due to the recent discovery that DHS had ordered 1.6 BILLION rounds of hollow point ammo for its people. That doesn’t even cover additional ammunition ordered for the IRS, police departments, and all the military branches.

          Meanwhile, while all of this craziness is taking place around them, the libtards are rehearsing Kumbaya.

      • JC

        BR549,

        That’s pretty good assessment all around.
        The only thing good I can say about the Kenyan presently ensconced in the White House
        is that he has done more to promote the Second Amendment than anyone in history since the founder’s. The NRA is getting about 8000 new members a day…(or was), and guns are flying of the shelves everywhere. One must wonder if this isn’t a perfect example of unintended consequences as regards almost every liberal policy…the exact opposite of the desired result? ;-)

    • nc

      Scott, just how positive are you that the shooter did not use an assault rifle to kill anyone?
      Early reports by the media are often incorrect! Just like all of the government conspiracies and red flags that never reach the level of PROOF here! Makes good reading to those who want to believe that mess but it makes for terrible history as it dies on the vine!

      • JeffH

        nc says, “Scott, just how positive are you that the shooter did not use an assault rifle to kill anyone?”

        I know for a fact that the shooter didn’t use an “assault” weapon.

        Obviously you don’t…but why am I not surprised.

      • CZ52

        For two days the police said the shooter used two handguns. It was only after the coroner said a rifle was used that the cops on scene “realized” the empty casings were from a 223 rifle not a 9mm handgun. Now, as I said to eddie are you claiming the Conn police are that incompetent?

      • eddie47d

        No CZ52 it sounds like you are the one trying to make the Connecticut police out to be incompetent.

      • DaveH

        There is no amount of proof we could offer to convince you of anything you refuse to believe, NC.

    • http://personalliberydigest big wyo

      .Some more bad news for the people
      Helicopter news cameras showing the pursuit and capture and arrest of two men in the wooded area.
      Women and boy stating a cuffed prone man in camo pants and dark jacket on sidewalk outside school.
      Statement already known to be false by Police Lieutenant and subsequent threats to private press.
      What was filmed by same helicopter news being removed from the trunk of the car was not an assault rifle – it was an autoloading shotgun.
      Totally changing and conflicting reports of the guns used.
      Eddy can talk all the crap he squeeze out but no final explanation of what happened has been put out.
      Wouldn’t you love to have your name signed to that one

      • JC

        I guess it’s a little like the story of the Kenyans’ birthplace…the story just keeps “evolving”.

      • Joe H

        Now THERE’S an example of “evolution”!!!!!

    • Larry K.

      I still believe someone in government is involved in this shooting to farther the way in taking our guns. there are to many strange things about this shooting. one question i have is, if the kids were shot with a 223 cal.rifle and there were 223 cal. shell casings and no mention of hand gun shell casings? if the rifle was found in the car…how did it get back there? when you think deeply about this whole thing, things don’t add up.

      • DaveH

        How about a rabid killer who wears a bullet-proof vest but then instead of going out in a blaze of glory against the police he just kills himself?

    • JC

      BR549,

      Start here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_fI0hm1dqY

      There’s a few more videos on the same page.
      And no shortage of good questions being asked…

  • http://yahoo.com Frank

    The real question is…..”How much longer are “We The People” going to allow this communists media and communist administration to destroy America????

    • eddie47d

      Is Frank leading the charge for the nutjobs today? More falsehoods to embellish your already weak drivel! I know some of you like to say this is a communist administration. Not much different than the left calling the Bush administration a fascist one! You take a wee bit of truth and turn it into even more far fetched fear and paranoia. The “fascist right wing media” is alive and well too if you want to jump into that rabbit hole Frankie! Randolph Linn age 52 and who lived in a suburb of Toledo Ohio burned a Mosque that was nearby and did $1 million in damage. He was armed to the teeth and wanted to inflict as many casualties as possible. By the time he got there the service was over and he walked through the Mosque looking for victims, (no one was found) He also brought 3 gas cans and then implemented the second part of his plan which was to burn it down. During his trial and in court testimony he was asked why he did this. His answer was that he only listens to FOX News and had for a few years. “They told him to take action against the Muslims and encouraged him to do so”. Maybe FOX was totally innocent but obviously they are saying things that put extreme ideas into peoples heads. Now maybe the far right can add Gasoline to their Guns and Greed philosophy!

      • Capitalist at Birth

        Dupe, ignorant fool, stupid idiot. Take your pick, they all fit in describing you,

      • DaveH

        Eddie says — “Is Frank leading the charge for the nutjobs today?”.
        Afraid of a little competition, Eddie?

      • eddie47d

        I have no fear of that with Capitalist at Birth and Dave H babbling their nonsense! LOL!

      • DaveH

        Of course not. It would require a modicum of intelligence to know that you’ve been severely thrashed on a regular basis, Eddie.

      • Joe H

        DaveH,
        If that’s the case eddie will NEVER know!!!

    • TIME

      Dear Frank,

      Yes indeed, thats the real question, I think many know the answer to that question – oddly its not quite what some would think it would be.

      Gun stores all accross this nation are stripped to the walls of stock, and have been now for the last two weeks. Yet hundred’s per hour – thousands per day, day after day are still coming in wanting to get armed and get ready, they have broken the sleep walking factor. { People are now waking up on mass.}

      Even the most mindless sheep have seen through the 12/14/12 event as its being a
      “100% Staged & FAKE” event – no matter how much BS the mass medai is tossing, People on mass are still able to see through it. for what it really is .

      { The MASS AWAKNING is on. }

      BUT PLEASE do keep in mind ~ The IMF & the Global Bankers are now going to now go full speed ahead as they can’t tiun back ~ they understand that they will end up in JAIL or worse.

      Please also keep this in mind ~ that saddly they willl start WW III before they sink below the waves of their own GREED and LUST for Blood.
      They will also break the bank too, so please be ready to help others who were to stupid to get ready.
      They will also impose as many Draconian laws as they can on you before they fall, as well get ready for a lot more ” FAKED” KILLINGS as well even real ones ~ to unfold over the next number of months, its going to get really bad people stay strong, and keep the FAITH.

      { People the whole world is watching YOU, If you win they win.}
      We can beat this Monster, but you have to take back your SOUL. then we will WIN

      Peace and Love, Shalom

      • JeffH

        TIME, Merry Christmas!

        Last saturday I sold one of my guns to a fellow sportsman up in San Francisco. It took us over 1-1/2 hours to get to the front of the line to do the paperwork for the transfer. All they needed from me was my identification and my signature,. The buyer had to fill out all of the paperwork. The gun shop(in Pacifica)will hold the gun for the required 10 day waiting period and then the guy should be able to pick it up, barring failure to pass the background check. I’m sure he’ll have another long wait when he goes to pick it up.

        What’s ironic is that on sunday I bought another gun in Fresno at Dick’s Sporting Goods…I was the only one making a gun purchase at that time but it still took 30+- minutes to fill out all the required forms and pay for it.

        AS an FYI, in California we must either purchase an approved “gun lock” or sign an affidavit that states what model of gun safe is owned by the purchaser.

      • DaveH

        Yep, and California (at the top of the Brady Campaign Gun Control ranking) has a murder rate of 4.8 per 100,000 while Utah (at the bottom of the Brady Campaign Gun Control ranking) has a murder rate of 1.9 per 100,000. Clearly Gun Control isn’t the answer.

      • JeffH

        Dave, the worst of the worst California anti-gun legislator is Kevin De Leon(D-LA)…Brown recently signed into law DeLeon’s SB 1315 which authorizes Los Angeles County to enact and enforce an ordinance that is stricter than state law regarding the manufacture, sale, possession or use of any BB device, toy gun, replica of a firearm or other device that is so substantially similar in coloration and overall appearance.

      • TIME

        Dear Jeff,

        Merry Christmas to you, forgive me we have been so busy its jusy crazy.

        The ride is now just starting, the TIME line has been off, its fluid for them afterall they hold all the cards / but ~ numbers..

        Peace and Love, Shalom

      • TIME

        Dear Folks, go to the: Dave Hodges Common Sence Show page and read;

        { Why Ex- Feds and Wall Street exc are going into hiding.}

        I have been told a lot of this same intel by people I know, when you have not one but many differant people who are all saying the same things ~ and they are not related by any common thread other than trying to get people awake,

        You have very strong evidence of a coming event.

        You don’t need a crystal ball to figure all this out people. There are but two single things the Global Bankers have not been able to get done, { so we must stop them now by exposing them as the criminals they are.}

        Before you don’t have a 1st Amendment left, and the 2nd gone along with it.

        As I keep saying you just can’t have a Marxist Police State if the people have guns.
        You all have the keys – will you keep them, or give them away?

        Your call, thousands are waking up every day now, Slaves without equal measure of defence stand no chance of breaking the chains,

        Where as Slaves with equal measure can not only hold off the Criminals, both common and those in $3500.00 suits But the slaves can also WIN.

        Peace and Love, Shalom

      • Kate8

        TIME – I heard that the showdown is about to begin. The rats are scurrying to hide themselves.

        There are things at play now on both sides…have been for a long time (under the radar for obvious reasons). Time to pray, pray, pray for the good guys. This is one we cannot lose.

        Obama may be going on permanent vacation. We’ll see.

        I even heard that the treasonous rats in DC are being offered ‘amnesty’ if they come clean. Must be a tough place to be, since no one from any side will ever trust them. Heh heh.

        Lots of things about to explode, perhaps literally. Hopefully not. Time to be ready.

        Godspeed, all.

      • Kate8

        TIME – Once again I’m having trouble posting.

        What do you make of this one?

        http://americankabuki.blogspot.com.au/2012/12/official-announcement-from-one-peoples.html

    • NativeBlood

      Just as soon as we as a citizenry identify who is causing and controlling this administration. They are not smart or powerful enough to go against what is logical unless they have been paid well to do so. Lobbyists are very powerful influences and those who we trust to perform well in office are being distracted with huge sums of money and will do what they are told or face some dire consequences. I don’t know all their names but they are not the usual christian citizenry we are used to at home. You do the research. They do not work for us anymore and they do not fear being voted out anymore because their new wealthy and powerful handlers run the show.

      • tony newbill

        NativeBlood I agree and those same SOBs are also the Technocratic society thats calling for a zero growth economy and Population control and Depopulation to save earth from Humanity in every aspect .

    • Larry K.

      how much longer? until they come and try to disarm us.

      • Capitalist at Birth

        When they think the time is right. Not just yet, but, it may occur sooner than you think.

  • Tom Cook

    Mr. Root, you are what I would expect of any Jew–someone who believes in carefully guarding personal freedom since it seems Jews have been everyone’s target since the days of Christ. It slays me that American Jews are so benighted that they are liberal and support the slime that calls itself obama. After my tour as a ground FAC in 1969, in a war I was sent to fight and then reviled for going, I was told by my superiors that I needed to cool it–my body count was too high. I only mention this because I am no shrinking violet; I have supported JPFO for years. They have my complete respect. I detest violence so much that I have taken steps to understand how to avoid and overcome it: I belong to Front Sight and take all of my family members for training. I have taken my wife and daughter to Tim Larkin’s live TFT training. What liberals don’t acknowledge since their mental function is as you have said–reversed–is that there are bad people and we must defend against them, and not be creating “killing zones” such as schools. Cannot anyone with eyes and even a 75 IQ realize that the shooters choose just such places? Liberals believe that police will protect them while police increasingly murder citizens. I may remember incorrectly, but from my childhood I recall that God helps those who…

    • nc

      Tom. let me finish your sentence! “god?” helps those who do not attend Newtown schools! Because he sure didn’t help those kids! They died! Was “god?” on break or simply not a factor in the real world of that gun toting human?? “god?” sure kills a lot of innocent children to get adults attention!! 20 funerals is a “TEACHING MOMENT’????
      LIBERALS TAKE GOD OUT OF SCHOOLS! IT APPEARS TO ME “GOD?” PLAYED HOOKEY!!

      • tony newbill

        They needed Security like President Obama has at his kinds schools !!!!!

      • Larry K.

        why are you blaming GOD? GOD didn’t kill anyone but if you think he did i feel sorry for you. GOD does not hurt people either, but people hurt each other by what they say and do, Sometimes they even kill. there is evil among us and that is the Devil’s doing, not GOD’S.

        • tony newbill

          Larry K I agree !!!!!!!
          I think what the idea of faith is suppose to be about is faith to do the right things in life is what believing in Gods word is about , not looking to God to be the Provider of your lifes outcomes !!! What would be the reason for any person to be here if God was to provide us all with our hopes and dreams ?
          And what would be the reason for any Government to Provide you with your lifes needs if you become Dependent on them thinking that its their responsibility to provide you with your needs too ???

      • Paul Wells

        nc, you are definitely off your meds. Get back on them immediately, or call for some mental health care professionals…you really need them!

      • Capitalist at Birth

        God helps those who help them selves is the rest of the sentence. GET IT?

      • S.C.Murf

        nc God is a perfect spirit, He in His perfection cannot look on earth because of it’s sin’s. He wasn’t there that day because of the sin and evil that was. satan rules this earth, and by the sounds of your ranting, rules YOU also. Don’t worry I know that you cannot comprehend this but HE will make you very aware one of these days and I will stand as witness against you. Enjoy what little TIME you have left for you will not enjoy the day of judgement.

        up the hill
        airborne

      • Vicki

        Larry K. says:
        “…. but people hurt each other by what they say and do, ….”

        Careful with the “say” part of that. Progressives have (mis)used that thought to create “Politically Correct Speech” laws.

      • Kate8

        First the progs work overtime throwing God out of everything, especially schools…making certain that no one can so much as speak of Him without dire consequences….

        And then they are the first to blame Him when something happens.

    • eddie47d

      Tom Cook “detests violence” but brags about killing so many then brings God into the equation. Nothing like being all over the page! Oh yes those gun free zones it has to be a Liberal thing. LOL! We’ve had two shootouts at a biker bar in Colorado Springs last year or that one in Louisiana that sent dozens to the hospital. So much for killings only take place in gun free zones. Oh yes lets arm more bikers and make America safer! What about that dude in Newport Beach CA who went to a Mall last Saturday (didn’t go into the Mall) Instead fired off 50 rounds in the parking lot and luckily only injured a mother and her child. I guess now we’ll have to have several police patrolling the parking lots since no concealed weapons permit holder came to the rescue. You all say your going to take charge of things and put an end to these crazy shootings. Oh well that guy in the parking lot had an American right to have that “assault” weapon in his possession! That is all that matters.

      • tony newbill

        Eddie47d , if the US citizenry are disarmed do you think President Obama would disarm the security force that protects his kids at their school ?
        And would he disarm his security detail too ?

      • DaveH

        For those who, unlike Eddie, have some common sense:
        http://gunowners.org/op052609cb.htm

      • DaveH

        Eddie says — “What about that dude in Newport Beach CA who went to a Mall last Saturday (didn’t go into the Mall) Instead fired off 50 rounds in the parking lot and luckily only injured a mother and her child. I guess now we’ll have to have several police patrolling the parking lots since no concealed weapons permit holder came to the rescue”.

        California is one of the toughest states in the union in which to get a Concealed Carry Permit, Eddie, you ignoramus.
        And you wonder why you have no credibility on this board?

      • eddie47d

        Double ignoramus Dave H.! Which proves even further that any one can get a gun plus its rather hard to conceal and assault weapon which he used!

      • JeffH

        eddie the ignoramous liar says “…Which proves even further that any one can get a gun plus its rather hard to conceal and assault weapon which he used!”

        The Newport Beach shooter used an assault weapon?

        You are a liar eddie, an out and out liar!

        This from the LA Times: The gunman who fired more than 50 rounds at busy Fashion Island shopping center in Newport Beach on Saturday was described by police as a “destitute individual” who decided that “this was his way of venting his life problems.”

        Marcos Gurrola, 42, is accused of firing a “semiautomatic handgun” dozens of times into the air before he was taken into custody, authorities said. No one was wounded in the shooting, although one person was injured fleeing to safety.
        http://articles.latimes.com/2012/dec/17/local/la-me-mall-shooter-20121217

      • JC

        eddie47d says:
        December 27, 2012 at 1:22 pm
        Double ignoramus Dave H.! Which proves even further that any one can get a gun plus its rather hard to conceal and assault weapon which he used!
        _______________________________________________________________________
        Nope! The AR was fund in his trunk. It never fired a shot at Newtown.

      • JeffH

        JC, to further clarify, an AR-15 is not an assault weapon, it is a single action semi-automatic rifle incapable of full auto fire.

      • DaveH

        Good Grief. I could have more intelligent conversations with an ape at the zoo.
        Eddie says — “Which proves even further that any one can get a gun”.
        This from the same guy who has been arguing for days that we need more Gun Control?
        Yikes. I wonder what it feels like to be as dumb as a rock?

      • JC

        Good point Jeff,
        I have an old Cooey .22 that is also a semi automatic…
        same action an an AR and hardly an “assault rifle”.

      • JC

        Good point Jeff,
        I have an old Cooey .22 that is also a semi automatic…
        same action as an AR and hardly an “assault rifle”.

      • JeffH

        JC, is your Cooey a Model 64 made by Winchester? I remember shooting my uncles .22 Winchester Cooey 64? or 84? semi-auto if memory serves me. He lived in Canada before he moved back to the states.

      • JC

        It is a Winchester…I’ll have to check the model though.
        It’s got the rabbit hunting scene engraved in the stock.
        it’s pretty cool actually and work like a darn.
        I hit 2 ” groups at 150 yds with it.

      • Joe H

        eddie,
        If you have any froends that are NRA members and get their magazine, ask them to borrow their magazine and read the section “Armed Citizen” EVERY month there are news stories of people from 10 to 70 saving their lives and others because they had a gun in their home. I doubt you HAVE those friends or any others for that matter, just wishful thinking on my part, but try!

      • JC

        Joe, I’ve posted the Armed Citizen website for eddiot’s benefit a number of times.
        There are hundreds if not thousands of real life stories of crimes being stopped by honest law abiding citizens with guns. he’ll never look though…it would conflict with his conflicted mind.

        Notice there’s no news on the most recent theater shooting in Texas?
        Know why? A law abiding person with a gun hit the shooter twice…no one was killed.
        It doesn’t play right for the anti gun liberal media…so Shhhh…it didn’t happen.

    • JC

      Well said Tom Cook.
      Ignore the anti God pimple called nc.
      Everyone needs something to believe in…
      nc…has nothing.

  • Louis Lemieux

    I taught most conservative republicans believed in Jesus: “For all who take the sword will perish by the sword.“

    • Capitalist at Birth

      You and your godless brethren continually take quotes fro Jesus out of context and misquote him all the time. Were you there? Where did you study about Jesus? How many books on Religion have you read? Until you can answer those questions honestly, quit taking the Lord’s name in vain.

    • Capitalist at Birth

      Jesus did not espouse leaving yourself and your loved ones defenseless. That is a big lie that you Communists continually try to use to convince anyone who will listen to lay down their self defense and become salves.

    • Louis Lemieux

      “And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.” (Matthew 10:28 KJV)

  • http://www.davidlerickson.com David

    This whole argument is stupid and larded with disinformation. The fact is, liberals don’t want to take your guns away. That’s just pseudo-conservative rhetoric to prevent common sense gun regulations.

    What the majority of Americans want (including 74% of NRA members) is sensible gun regulations, such as closing the unregulated secondary gun market, banning large clips, military assault weapons and armor piercing bullets. Also, large purchases of ammo must be reported.

    And yes, the mental health issue must be addressed as well. In the 70′s badly run, draconian care centers were closed, but instead of funding and managing better centers, the mentally ill were released into the general public. It all came down to money. We are seeing the repercussion of that decision today.

    • FreedomFighter

      That is the biggest load of Bravo Sierra…The progressives have stated repeatedly they want to take all guns from the population … see UN documentation…

      Laus Deo
      Semper Fi

      • eddie47d

        The biggest “load” I see is the NRA allowing just about anyone for any reason to carry in any place they want to. The NRA or GOA refuse to admit there are legal gun owners who never should be near any weapon. Yet they allow them to carry and even purchase more. Ask those 20 dead kids or their parents if the laws aren’t on their side. The pro gun laws allowed Mrs Lanza to have as many weapons as she liked and all legal. The Aurora shooter was nice and legal and had many venues in which to choose from to buy his arsenal. Oh yes those wonderful pro gun laws that you all scream about and say they don’t exist! You can brag all day about the “lives saved” with a gun but you have piles of excuses for those who die at the hands of a gun. You want these continual incidents to go away as fast as possible so you can keep stoking your AR-15 as your best friend. Because as we all know “guns don’t kill people people kill people”. What a joke for the only purpose of a weapon is to kill people or for hunting. You certainly don’t buy it for a nick knack or a paper weight! The NRA is no longer credible or at least not honest about any gun related issue and GOA is far too extreme in how they provoke.

        • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

          Dear eddie47d,

          You write: “What a joke for the only purpose of a weapon is to kill people or for hunting.” That is untrue. Shooting targets is an enjoyable pastime. If you have never shot, I wouldn’t expect you to understand. But it is quite easy to devote several hours to shooting for the mere enjoyment of hitting what you aim at and doing it consistently. Whether it’s clay pigeons or aluminum cans or paper targets, shooting is enjoyable. Some people enjoy golf, some enjoy hiking in the woods, some enjoy sitting on their butts on a porch swing. I and thousands like me enjoy shooting. So, as usual, you are commenting on that which you do not understand.

          Best wishes,
          Bob

          • tony newbill

            Eddie47d , So if personal weapons are not a excellent deterrent on a local level against those in society that want to take anothers Liberties then why is it that we need Nukes to act as a deterrent against International infringers who seek to take your liberties ?

      • Louis Lemieux

        What Bob says here is true, shooting targets is an enjoyable pastime. Maybe guns like assault riffle, though, when not in use should remain locked up where people go target shooting.

        There certainly is a problem when guns end up in the hands of individuals who are mentally impaired; but, we also have another problem. The less trust people have of each other in a society, the more they feel the need to protect themselves and consequently the more fatalities will occur. Let’s all work for a better society and the best way to start is to better our self: not to support hatred and violence through words or actions.

      • momo

        eddie47d says: ” What a joke for the only purpose of a weapon is to kill people or for hunting.”

        With that logic there should be more dead people with all the firearms in the U.S. Never heard of going to the range and target shooting eddie? Or are you too busy signing petitions?

        • Jeff

          Does any reasonably advanced country on Earth have a gun death rate even remotely close to ours? I know it’s sacrilege because we are the beginning and the end of all that’s good, but sometimes we might look at something that works better in other countries and emulate it.

      • eddie47d

        MOMO: My shooting days are over 1964-1969. Yes there was plenty of targets also so take your sarcasm and it stick up your …..!

      • JeffH

        Jeff with the Nazi fetish says “I know it’s sacrilege because we are the beginning and the end of all that’s good, but sometimes we might look at something that works better in other countries and emulate it.”

        Now this is the type of common sense we all should expect from a progressive who believes in the failed Keynesian Model of economics.

      • JC

        eddie47d says:
        December 27, 2012 at 1:29 pm
        MOMO: My shooting days are over 1964-1969. Yes there was plenty of targets also so take your sarcasm and it stick up your …..!
        ______________________________________________________________
        Sounds like Viet Nam era…I take it you were fighting for North Viet Nam?
        What with you being a communist and all….

      • Joe H

        FreedomFighter,
        Just to worry the gun banners here, I just entered NAGR’s drawing for a certificate good for 600 rounds of ammo for ANY weapon. Made a decent donation as well!!!

    • cawmun cents

      Government regulating housing=people losing their houses.
      Government regulating commerce=people losing jobs.
      Government regulating firearms=?
      Do the math you moron…..
      But what do I know?
      Apparently very little……..
      Cheers!
      -CC.

      • JC

        CC this from Czarina Feinstein’s own web site.
        It’s part of what is to be put before Senate:

        Bans the sale, transfer, importation, or manufacturing of:
        120 specifically-named firearms

        Certain other semiautomatic rifles, handguns, shotguns that can accept a detachable magazine and have one military characteristic

        Semiautomatic rifles and handguns with a fixed magazine that can accept more than 10 rounds

        Strengthens the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban and various state bans by:
        Moving from a 2-characteristic test to a 1-characteristic test

        Eliminating the easy-to-remove bayonet mounts and flash suppressors from the characteristics test

        Banning firearms with “thumbhole stocks” and “bullet buttons” to address attempts to “work around” prior bans

        Bans large-capacity ammunition feeding devices capable of accepting more than 10 rounds.

        Protects legitimate hunters and the rights of existing gun owners by:
        Grandfathering weapons legally possessed on the date of enactment

        Exempting over 900 specifically-named weapons used for hunting or sporting purposes and
        Exempting antique, manually-operated, and permanently disabled weapons

        Requires that grandfathered weapons be registered under the National Firearms Act, to include:
        Background check of owner and any transferee;
        Type and serial number of the firearm;
        Positive identification, including photograph and fingerprint;
        Certification from local law enforcement of identity and that possession would not violate State or local law; and
        Dedicated funding for ATF to implement registration

        Read more: http://freedomoutpost.com/2012/12/senate-

        So “That’s ” how we stop the crazies, by putting every single American at risk…
        And Hitler himself is applauding from the grave…after all “registration” was how he disarmed Germany.

        This isn’t about public safety…it’s about control and disarmament.

    • DaveH

      David says — “What the majority of Americans want (including 74% of NRA members) is sensible gun regulations, such as closing the unregulated secondary gun market, banning large clips, military assault weapons and armor piercing bullets”.
      Banning large clips is sensible?
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXVNypPUGto

      • DaveH

        The Poll that David cites was conducted by Frank Luntz for the Mayors Against Illegal Guns.
        How’s that for unbiased?
        I haven’t been able to locate the actual survey questions yet, but I’ll keep looking.
        At any rate, something like 75% of people think the Rich don’t pay their fair share and we Freedom Lovers know how bogus that is. That’s what we’re here for — to wake up those people to reality. Nobody said it was going to be easy to deprogram the Propagandized lemmings.

    • JC

      David says:
      December 27, 2012 at 8:21 am
      This whole argument is stupid and larded with disinformation. The fact is, liberals don’t want to take your guns away. That’s just pseudo-conservative rhetoric to prevent common sense gun regulations.
      _______________________________________________________________________

      You lost me at “common sense gun regulations”…what the hell are those?

      A little history lesson for you.
      “The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall NOT BE INFRINGED.”

      Have a nice day.

      • Jeff

        So you choose to just ignore the first clause of the 2nd amendment? Is it too inconvenient?

      • DaveH

        The Second Amendment:
        “A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed”.

        It doesn’t matter what the first part of the sentence says. The second part speaks for itself.
        A militia is an army of the people, Not an army of the Government.
        What part of a “free state” do you not understand, Jeff?

        For those who might encounter Liberal Progressive misinformers like Jeff:
        http://gunowners.org/op0848.htm

        I know, Jeff, I’m a “Creepy Bastard”. I can’t even imagine what you’d be calling me if the shoe was on the other foot and I was the one trying to take something from you.

      • JC

        Jeff says:
        December 27, 2012 at 4:22 pm
        So you choose to just ignore the first clause of the 2nd amendment? Is it too inconvenient?
        __________________________________________________________
        Um…No…I just kept it simple for you. because you’re a Liberal, right?
        Wouldn’t want you to have to digest more than you can handle….

      • JC

        In “A View of the Constitution,” which colleague Brian Puckett writes “was the standard constitutional law text at Harvard until 1845 and at Dartmouth until 1860,” William Rawle, “a contemporary of the Founders and the man to whom George Washington offered an appointment as the first U.S. Attorney General,” offered a vastly different opinion.
        “No clause in the Constitution could by any rule of construction be conceived to give to congress a power to disarm the people,” Rawle wrote in Chapter X, “OF THE RESTRICTIONS ON THE POWERS OF CONGRESS — AND ON THE EXECUTIVE AND JUDICIAL AUTHORITIES — RESTRICTIONS ON THE POWERS OF STATES AND SECURITY TO THE RIGHTS OF INDIVIDUALS.”
        “Such a flagitious attempt could only be made under some general pretence by a state legislature,” Rawle continued. “But if in any blind pursuit of inordinate power, either should attempt it, this amendment may be appealed to as a restraint on both.”

        Read more: http://freedomoutpost.com/2012/07/what-will-owners-of-ak-47s-do-if-they-are-outlawed/comment-page-1/#comments#ixzz2GaRgFUgO

  • Flashy

    Mr. Root: Guns save lives eh? And the public is against gun control eh? And Mitt romeny is a lock to win the Nov. 2012 election.

    You cite the Rasmussen Poll…a well known conservative poll which tends to skew towards inaccuracy towards the conservative views. Try the Pew Poll…
    — 49 percent of respondents agreed with the view that it’s more important to control gun ownership than it is to protect the right of Americans to own guns.
    — 42 percent said the right of Americans to own guns is more important than gun control.

    Or how about the ABC/Wall Street Journal poll, released Monday, which found that a majority of Americans (54%) support stricter gun control laws, while 43% are opposed.
    And on and on. Key words to note Mr. Root…’gun control”. As stated by many over and over, only the extremists are screaming about banning guns. Extremists on both sides.

    But first, let’s talk about your other “stretchers’.

    “Take the debt crisis: Obama wants to raise taxes, so we lose our economic freedom, and government grows bigger… while we add more debt to solve a debt crisis.” {Wayne, do you write these staring into the sun too long sitting by your pool? President Obama has proposed raising taxes on the wealthy…to the tune of someone making $500,000 gross net pays a whopping $684 a month more…and keeping taxes lowered on the 98% of individuals and small businesses. He also has proposed spending cuts to the tune of almost $500 billion. Make more money, spend less…seems to be a sound reasonable method to get budget control to those sane reasonable people. Fact is, it’s what the People said they wanted as a policy towards budget control. By a mandate in re-electing President Obama. }

    “Take 9/11 — Bush spent billions on the formation of Homeland Security, hundreds of thousands of expensive new government employees, started two wars, and took many of our civil rights away.” {Yep. And this is not President Obama’s to be blamed for. He has to deal with it though, and the extremists on the Right scream to avoid responsibility and blame this President and then yell that they should not have to help pay for what they supported. Avoidance of responsibility and demanding others pay for their luxuries}

    Take global warming — Obama wants to tax us to death, double our electric bills, take away our freedoms, and put government in charge of business. {Ummmm…last I heard, the big fight is that the extremist backed GOP members want to raise taxes on all rather than have 1% see a small increase in their tax burden…an increase which only begins to pay for what they receive in the Welfare for the wealthy programs. As to double electricity bills…where does that come from? The fact that outdated coal fired plants have to modernize to meet current air standrards…a modernization that doesn’t make economic sense because natural gas is so abundant, cleaner, and cheaper? That coal is fast becoming uneconomical for electrical generation as wind, solar, natural gas come online and are more profitable? I’m guessing you are referring to coal when you speak of electrical rates going up. Those generation companies utilizing other means to generate aren’t raising prices. Fact is, the big battle within the regulatory agencies concerns the use of the lines. Wind and solar being added to the grid has created a problem of capacity.

    Thus…President Obama’s calls for infrastructure needing to be built and expanded. Resulting in LOWER costs to business and the consumer. BTW…you failed (deliberately) to mention the latest trend of self generation by business and foresighted homeowners. Going off the grid has become economical with the alternative energy options now available. }

    “Take the health care crisis — Obama passed Obamacare to raise our taxes, grow government, unionize healthcare workers, and put government in charge of our health .” {And space aliens are controlling us via the mind beams broadcast from outer space. }

    “The same story holds true with the gun control issue spurred by the tragic Newtown school shooting. “ {I hope so. Reasonable regulation of guns. No one but extremists are saying banning guns. Extremists from both sides..and they concentrate on the other extremists on the other end of the spectrum in hyping the issues and creating fear. Bad guys have guns. Where are they getting these guns/ Why…they’re buying them because its so frippin’ easy, there are so many, and they are cheap ! Ever hear of a gun totin’ robber who had money?

    So the reasonable control options being floated are reduce the capacity of magazines to a sane 10 shot capacity. If you’re a hunter, and need more than that…you have no reason being in the field. If you’re defending yourself, and need more than 10 shots in one magazine…hate ta tell ya, but I’d be thinking you wouldn’t be needing much more with those odds against you anyhows. I have yet to hear anyone say any reason why more than a 10 shot max capacity is needed.

    Another is to go after the suppliers of guns to the bad guys. Registering each sale. Not a infringement of any Right. It’s not gun registration. And allows any gun used in the commission of a crime to be backtracked to the suppliers. What is wrong with that?

    Banning the future manufacturing and sale of semi auto assault rifles. Don’t go giving me the line that taking away a bayonet holder makes it not an assault rifle…everyone knows what one is and it ain’t a hunting rifle. It’s an offensive weapon which purpose is to kill. Keep the ones in private collections…and…for you market gurus, as you claim time and again, supply and demand will raise the prices of these weapons above that of the common gun criminal.

    Mental health registration? Armed police in schools and every corner? Let everyone pack a gun? Ya really want a police state?????? Is not a national registration, police in every building and every aspect of life, and police treating everyone armed and dangerous building even more of a wall between them and the citizenry…is that not a police state?

    Mr. Root…when you see your therapist, you really want to be on a national register? You think that is reasonable?

    But wait…this article is from the guy who twice predicted Romney to take the WH. Despite every sign to the contrary. I guess these types of articles are what to expect.

    • FreedomFighter

      Again I will tell you Flash, you are full of it to your gills, like any other progressive toady.

      Death by “Gun Control”

      by Aaron Zelman and Richard W. Stevens

      http://jpfo.org/filegen-a-m/deathgc.htm

      Obama won by extreme voter fraud, the info is all there to prove it but nobody wants to.

      Laus Deo
      Semper Fi

    • http://gillysrooms.blogspot.com Gillysrooms from Australia

      Spot on Flashy, but read my suggestions below…will soon see who wants to become police officer to save lives using their guns to protect the community eh..lol

      • FreedomFighter

        Sad for you Austrailians, you have already been disarmed by the progressives – your crime rate is exploding and many are demanding the right to bear arms back…

        Since your government has disarmed you, how responsive are they? Do you rule government or do they rule you…seen them fines for talking bad about gov?

        I for one dont want that BS here in the USA

      • Flashy

        FF…..just so you know…when you refer to ‘crime rate exploding” in Australia…you aren’t exactly being accurate. Actually, you’re perpetuating myth.

        i have read that statement about Australia on this Board so often, I brushed it off as just another ‘fact” which wasn’t a ‘fact” at all, but made up. just another typical “Tea Party lie. Seems almost all data that originates with the extremists of the Right are made up. I work very closely with folks Down Under, my work hours here are timed to Aussie time (Sydney). I happened to mention this to one of my cohorts…he said ” you Yanks have a lot of problems with truth eh?”

        So I went and researched it a tad.

        Here’s the facts…

        http://www.snopes.com/crime/statistics/ausguns.asp

      • JC

        So I went and researched it a tad.

        Here’s the facts…
        ______________________________________________________________________

        And naturally you used a “left wing” site owned by none other than the king lefty,
        George Soros…to verify…nothing.

      • JC

        Nationwide Australian homicide statistics show that murder has increased 3.2 per cent since the guns were confiscated. However, in the state of Victoria, homicides committed with firearms are up a staggering 300 per cent! Once again, this was not supposed to happen, if you believe the Leftist rhetoric being espoused in the Media, and by self-appointed spokesmen of the Left.

        Nationwide, assaults are up 8.6 per cent while robberies using guns is up a whopping 44 per cent! It seems that criminals have gotten more assertive and confident since the law-abiding citizenry has been forced to give up their weapons. Now, what was that popular bumper sticker here in America? “When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns.” This New World Order “experiment” in Australia has validated this sentiment 1000 per cent.

        http://www.cuttingedge.org/News/n1329.cfm

      • JC

        Amid the push for more gun control in the wake of the Conn. shooting, it’s important to remember the lesson gun control laws have taught us in other countries — namely, that less guns lead to more crime.
        We saw this clearly in Australia when Aussies were disarmed by de jure measures in 1997.
        To accomplish this, the Australian government sponsored a $500 million buyback on all privately owned firearms that led to a ban. Australian politicians who supported the move “promised a lower crime rate once the ban was in place.”
        Did lower crime result? No. Instead armed robberies rose significantly and home invasions rose as well.
        Moreover, assaults involving guns rose more than a 25% and murders with a gun rose nearly 20%.

        http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/12/15/The-Aussie-Lesson-Less-Guns-More-Crime

        • BR549

          JC wrote: “…. namely, that less guns lead to more crime.”

          Until such time that we evolve enough as a species and get beyond our spiritual immaturity, we are stuck in that juvenile rut of still wanting and needing to be irresponsible, yet knowing that the only way we can deal with our growth is to embrace it head on. We can’t run and hide from our past, but we can certainly use that past to eventually grow beyond our feeling any need to defend ourselves from others.

          The problem is that while gun owners realize the current truth, the anti-gun people are in either total denial of why people are feeling a need to defend themselves, or worse, like an 8 year old who saw his daddy start the car with the keys a few times, thinks he’s figured out life works and has matured enough to take the car for a ride by himself.

          • Jeff

            The problem with your argument is we have other countries to use for comparisons. Are our crime rates lower than Western Europe’s? I think not. By your reasoning, England, France, and Germany should have crime rates triple ours. I don’t believe they do, but they do have gun death rates that are microscopic compared to ours.

            And “crime” is a broad term – ranging from shoplifting a $2 item to armed robbery, mayhem, robbery, and murder. What if the statistics showed more guns lead to a drop in petty crimes but a rise in homicides? Would the “drop” in crime be worth it? Maybe crime statistics should be weighted like a hitter’s slugging percentage.

          • BR549

            Jeff wrote: “The problem with your argument is we have other countries to use for comparisons.”

            And those comparisons don’t necessarily work. Different styles of governance, their people’s sense of freedom and equality, of connectedness; there are so many factors to consider.

            Our crime rate is soaring because our own elected officials have allowed the corrupt banking families to overtake our country and during that time have been lying to the public. As a result, there has been this “undercurrent” of the public knowing something was wrong, while the politicians keep lying, one, about the problems even existing, and two, about what measures are being taken to squash a problem, and three, that the tax money they claimed to be using to combat a problem was actually going toward that problem.

            Many people would just sigh and say, “Oh, that’s life, people will be people, get over it,” but when you flip the argument upside down and imagine what it would be like if politicians actually volunteered for service because they truly believed they had done well in life and that it was time to put something back into the society that helped nurture them, that would be a different mindset. Imagine if politicians showed up for work and actually agreed on ways to make our country and other countries more efficient and more representative of the people they “claim” to represent. Without the pervasive angst that has become the dysfunctional undercurrent within our own governing body, I would bet that the collective mindset within the population would be one of service rather than one of violation.

            It would be different if those politicians actually tried to understand, not that Christianity should predominate, but that God was still that necessary parent during our spiritually formative growth, and until man matures enough spiritually, he must adhere to a set of guidelines that come from higher than that concocted by his own ego.

            The ego will tell you anything you want to hear. It will rationalize every evil intention and justify ever war. And it will certainly pave the way for the abuses we have seen by our officials as they increasingly pad their own nests and polish their lapel pins, while completely ignoring the real problems within the population they convinced they had the professional acumen to socially manage..

            The problem with “my argument”, at least for you, it seems, is people being able to wrap their brain around it. For the same reason you couldn’t is the same reason the legislature and other officials have given up trying, because they can’t seem to find a way around the corruption. So, they cave in. THAT was why God (and I’m not getting religious here) was mentioned so much during the founding documents. It had NOTHING to do with religion, but it had EVERYTHING to do with recognizing that we get our marching orders from a power higher than that of other men.

            It’s an argument of spiritual proportions that has plagued man ever since he claimed to be conscious enough to know God. It’s an argument where the ego convinces weak-minded men that they have outgrown their desire to slaughter each other but that it’s OK for the state to slaughter them instead.

            As long as man is still wrestling with that pretense of maturity, individuals will continue to need to protect themselves from those others who haven’t gotten the message yet, but that message won’t filter down to those others until the government itself starts practicing what it preaches.

      • JC

        Australia Bans Guns, Crime Rate Increases | Gun Control Fail

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=xh4oHK8Dgck#!

      • JC

        From Liberty Australia:

        Professor Joyce Lee Malcolm’s erudite study has changed my view of gun control. Before reading her book, I was inclined to see control in this way: Leaving aside questions about individual rights, there is an obvious argument that supports allowing people to own firearms. If criminals know that their victims may be armed, they are less likely to attack: guns deter violent crime. The modern state refuses to acknowledge this elementary truth. If people have guns, this allows them to resist the state, and under no circumstances can this be permitted. The need to secure the state outweighs the desire to halt crime.

        http://www.la.org.au/opinion/161212/disarmed-and-wholly-dependent

      • JC

        I used to go hunting with my mother when I was a child. By the time I was fourteen I owned and used my own semiautomatic .22 Ruger for culling rabbits and kangaroos. Our weapons were tools. Now the guns we own must be registered as sporting equipment through thorough licensing procedures that keep strict tabs on shooters and make it very hard to own firearms in this country. The result being that only the terrorists (yes, these home invaders are the only terrorists that we have to deal with) invading our homes have access to guns for protection. Those of us who abide by the laws must keep our weapons locked up and out of sight. God help us if we ever use our weapons to defend ourselves as the law has made it clear that we are to lie down like dogs and let crime happen to us rather than inflict injury on an intruder or attacker.

        In Australia we do not have the peace of mind that comes with the necessity of resistance when attacked in our homes and no one was shocked more than me when in 1997Howard decided to diminish this country’s security by disarming innocent citizens intimating responsible persons, like myself and most gun owners, are potential mass murderers.

        http://members.iinet.net.au/~nedwood/guns.html

        Should I keep going Flashy, or would you just rather stick to your one, single, left wing, source of “opinion”?

      • JC

        Jeff says:
        December 30, 2012 at 9:19 pm
        The problem with your argument is we have other countries to use for comparisons. Are our crime rates lower than Western Europe’s? I think not. By your reasoning, England, France, and Germany should have crime rates triple ours. I don’t believe they do, but they do have gun death rates that are microscopic compared to ours.
        _____________________________________________________________________

        I see…”you think” and “you don’t believe”…right…blah blah blah…
        Post some facts. What is the rate of rape and home invasion?
        What is the murder rate with or without guns?
        How many people could have stopped a crime committed with a knife, a broken bottle or just plain brute strength against a weaker or older person if they’d had a .38?

        “I think” you’re full of S#!t and I “don’t believe” it will ever stop.

    • nc

      Flashy, how dare you trash the WINGNUT TRILOGY! Old Testament, New Testament and Rasmussen Polls !!!

      • tony newbill

        Flashy , Eddie and NC will this Armed Invasion of Illegals increase with the disarming of US Citizens ???
        Faced with gun-toting drug smugglers, Arizona ranchers demand security at the border.

        http://dailynightly.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/26/16047580-faced-with-gun-toting-drug-smugglers-arizona-ranchers-demand-security-at-the-border?lite

      • eddie47d

        Yes Tony those stories pop up on the news every once in awhile. With a 2,000 mile border its bound to happen. Every once in awhile a plane crashes into another or a ship collides into another even with modern technology. It other words you can’t stop each and every incident from happening. Now that the Border Patrol knows about this newest route I’m sure they will act upon it. Do the farmers and ranchers along the border have a right to defend themselves,absolutely! With guns even! Few will argue that a person has a right to defend family and property so enough of your paranoia talk about “disarming” these citizens. You sure like to spice up your stories (comments) with terms like “invasion” so no wonder you are always so confused.

      • Karolyn

        Tony – Please keep informed. There has been a drop in illegal immigration, especially over the past few years with the weakened economy.
        http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/article/Number-of-immigrant-drophouses-in-Phoenix-way-down-4131535.php

        • tony newbill

          Karolyn you are right , but instead of just those seeking financial improvement to their lives we have a NEW kind of Illegal Invading our USA and they don’t care about the Economy they have YOU in their sites ….. And Karolyn your 1.5 Billion dollars that Obama is sending to these Muslim Brotherhood affiliates is where their Money comes from to pay for their Human smuggling of themselves and whatever else they are bring into the Country like the Biological weapons they can’t seem to find in Syria , ha ha ha ha , Ha ha ha tax dollars at work to Undermine your Safety , hang on this is just getting started … http://azcapitoltimes.com/news/2012/03/23/hezbollah-terror-threat-on-u-s-mexico-border-is-real/

      • DaveH

        Karolyn is correct. Instead of all the gnashing of teeth about illegals coming from the NeoConservative Progressives, the Liberal Progressives have found the simple solution to the illegal immigration problem — Trash our economy so they have no reason to come here.

      • eddie47d

        Tony is going off in his typical tangent and is only baiting us. Reminds me of someone else I know!

      • Vicki

        Eddie47d writes:
        “Few will argue that a person has a right to defend family and property so enough of your paranoia talk about “disarming” these citizens.”

        Yet eddie is more then happy to side with any government plan for “common sense” gun laws.

      • eddie47d

        Your semi-automatic gun loving free for all hasn’t done much for America’s credibility either Vickie!

    • DaveH

      Wow, Flashshill and his Boiler Room buddies are in full bloom today.

      • DaveH

        PL must be really waking up a lot of people for Flashshill and his buddies to concentrate so much attention on us. That’s good news.

    • DaveH

      Why do you and your multiple personalities waste so much time with such a long boring equivocal comment, Flashshill, when you have no credibility on this board?
      Given that you have no credibility, the least you can do is give us some references to back yourself up. And I’m not talking about some vague reference to some past magazine article which nobody will bother looking up.

      • Vicki

        And when we have tried we find nothing there.

    • Joe H

      flashy,
      Hate to burst your little love fest for Bam Bam, but you need to dig a little deeper. Those are cuts to FUTURE spending not to the amount that is being spent now. The budget actually grows by leaps and bounds under his plan!

  • http://gillysrooms.blogspot.com Gillysrooms from Australia

    Yeah with all the guns you have in your American society, you dont need the police or the army to defend yourselves. I think you could save $trillions if some of your citizens took it in turns to act as community police to maintain law and order, so saving enough money in no time to pay out your national debt. I think you should suggest this idea to Congressman John Boehner and to your President to help solve your taxing problems with the fiscal cliff.

    • FreedomFighter

      The guns are to defend against a tyranical government forming over us here in the USA…like obummers regime…

      Something you as an Aussie are now experianceing – please goto a public place and say a few things bad — then pay the million in fines.

      Laus Deo
      Semper Fi

      • http://gillysrooms.blogspot.com Gillysrooms from Australia

        Freedom Fighter, we usually see crime gangs killing each other in Sydney and the public are just collateral damage if they are in the way at the time. but most are just shooting each other over business dealing areas, so I would not count them in a true crime rate statistics. Its just the survival of the fittest in that type of business…which is mainly due to past misdeeds of a corrupt police force in that New South Wales State coming back to bite them. A failure in government, corrupt politicians on the take and the stupid laws they pass from time to time.

        But the majority of the puiblic feel safer without so many guns in the community. Mind you many farmers still have hunting rifles and belong to sporting shooters gun clubs and we dont worry about farmers using rifles to kill vermin, rubbits, foxes etc of which there would be millions more if they could not be shot at. The rabbits are breeding again this year and rifles can be very handy if the virus does not succeeed in wiping them out fast enough.

        The problem as I see it is the too easy availability of guns by hot headed people who act too quickly usually over a minor matter before thinking and cooling down . The other problem is a lack of diplomacy in your community when dealing with the public or drug affected users who become easily paranoid if treated in an insensative manner. EGO is a big problem in the male species of the human race and together with guns make a volitile mix often leading to uneccessary kiilings of innocent people.

      • DaveH

        Gilly says — “But the majority of the puiblic feel safer without so many guns in the community”.
        The “feel safer” part is the key phrase. The reality is that they aren’t any safer.

    • eddie47d

      There is also tyranny coming from right wing militia groups Freedom Fighter or are you one of their members? I suppose their victims are no more than collateral damage to those extreme “freedom fighters”?

      • FreedomFighter

        If fighting for the American constitution, liberty, freedom and my god given rights is extreme…

        so am I.

        Laus Deo
        Semper Fi

      • DaveH

        Tyranny from right wing militia groups? What are you talking about, Eddie? Do you have any evidence at all to back up such a nonsensical claim?

        • tony newbill

          Eddie47d you must then agree that Obama and the Congress , all but 7 of them , support this Militia that must be made up of both sides of the Parties that Voted for the NDAA and Obama signed into Law that concedes your tyranny claim right ???

      • eddie47d

        I have brought that up numerous times Dave H sorry you had all those days off! Trust me you don’t want the embarrasment!

      • JC

        eddie47d says:
        December 27, 2012 at 1:34 pm
        I have brought that up numerous times Dave H sorry you had all those days off! Trust me you don’t want the embarrasment!
        ___________________________________________________________________

        In other words, no DaveH…he doesn’t have anything to back up…anything.
        But he would have made a good “Brit” in 1774 now wouldn’t he? LOL

      • Vicki

        eddie47d says:
        “I have brought that up numerous times…”

        Indeed eddie has brought up his proofs by bald assertion many times. Some of them right here in this thread.

      • eddie47d

        Don’t worry Vickie and Dave I’ll make of point of that information more often . So when I do don’t wonder why I am posting it just remember you asked for it!

    • Capitalist at Birth

      Keep your ideas to yourself, and stay in Australia. You will not be welcome here.

      • Jeff

        So your gun makes you the self-appointed Border Vigilante, too? It must be quite a gun. Could we see it?

      • Vicki

        Jeff. You wouldn’t like it. It’s scary.

      • http://gillysrooms.blogspot.com Gillysrooms from Australia

        Your not much of a Capitalist if you dont like to seek out new ideas from anywhere which might improve your lifestyles or for new inventions and your turning away any new ideas which work in Australia. Obviously your more of a communist than a capitalist …who likes to keep their population capitives in their own insular little world without any progress…lol.
        I live in a free society in Australia and Bob Livingston allows me thankfully to express my opinions in this forum. We should help each other out even if we dont always agree but we should be able to learn from each others mistakes without getting all upset because new ideas might influence others into a different direction than your ideas would let them do. Are you really trying to achieve what your governments have tried to do to you ie control and censor what your citizens can see or do?

      • Karolyn

        Well put, Gilly!

  • Nobody’s Fool

    In the dark ages there was a problem with too many cats. People were not responsible for their pets, letting them overpopulate and causing a lot of problems. So they had cat roundups and killed millions of cats, almost eradicating them completely. Then suddenly there was a rat problem, and their natural predator was conveniently removed from the environment. This resulted in the Black Plague, bubonic plague spread by rats, and by which millions of people died. Governments still thought it was the cats’ fault, though, and continued their slaughter program for cats.

    The result would be comparable if all the guns are taken away from the populace. Crime would escalate, many more violent deaths would occur, and government would seek to control it all with martial law, oBlamer’s Dream for America.

    When I was in Russia, there were armed guards in every store. It was a little scary. I was required to leave my purse, which contained much that I did not want to lose, in a bin under a counter. Who knows what the attendant might have taken from it while it was being “guarded”. The idea was to ensure that I did not shoplift but the result was insecurity for me and my stuff. I don’t like the idea of having armed guards everywhere. It invites corruption.

    Besides, when I worked at the local high school in the 80s, we had an armed guard who slept in his car at the entrance to the parking lot every single day. Worthless as far as security was concerned.

    • Flashy

      “The result would be comparable if all the guns are taken away from the populace.”

      NF…no one but the extremists are saying take away all guns.

      And the extremists are the ones demanding a police state so they can have their guns to rebel against a police state.

      • FreedomFighter

        Its called the 2nd amendment Flash – not up for your slobbering foolishness to change.

        Laus Deo
        Semper Fi

      • DaveH

        Here goes Flashshill with his favorite new word — Extremist.

        Comparing the desire for the right to bear arms with a police state? Only the Extremist Flashshill could utter such an oxymoron.
        Flashman — Extremely dishonest, Extremely manipulative, and Extremely immoral.

      • Flashy

        Davey boy, still afraid of thinking and offering up solutions eh? Just denigrate. Can’t think things through? Perhaps you should see a therapist, and then be placed on the national Database that the NRA proposes.

        i am disappointed in you…no Mises link to an article that you never read. You’re slipping Sparky …

      • Jeff

        I see C.B. is up and active this fine morning. He must have gotten to kick some homeless people for Christmas. Merry Christmas, C.B.

      • DaveH

        Flashman says — “Davey boy, still afraid of thinking and offering up solutions eh?”.
        I just proved your comment to be nonsense, Flashshill. So if I’m non-thinking, what does that make you, Troll?

      • DaveH

        Tell the readers what you mean by “C.B.”, Jeff.
        Show them that you are the typical adolescent name-calling Liberal Progressive.
        Thanks, though for adding yet another example of Liberal Progressive childishness.

      • Vicki

        Flashy says:
        “Davey boy, still afraid of thinking and offering up solutions eh?”

        Dave and others have thought up and offered several solutions. None are really necessary as the founders ALREADY encoded the solution into the supreme LAW of the land.

        DaveH provded several links above showing the success of the solution and how people changed the solution and the resultant failures.
        Seach above for these comments
        _________________________
        DaveH says:
        December 27, 2012 at 10:59 am

        DaveH says:
        December 27, 2012 at 11:11 am
        _________________________

    • eddie47d

      Great story about the cats and the rats! Yet Nobody”s Fool is fooling herself. If there is Martial Law it will come from the right wing militias who are already actively pursuing that possibility. They want to be the Marshalls controlling that Martial Law. The government can be bothersome yet those Sovereign Citizens seem to be equally dangerous!

      • Vicki

        eddie47d freely admits the founders were correct by writing:
        “If there is Martial Law it will come from the right wing militias who are already actively pursuing that possibility. They want to be the Marshalls controlling that Martial Law. The government can be bothersome yet those Sovereign Citizens seem to be equally dangerous!”

        Thus the founders plan that EVERYMAN be armed is indeed the correct solution.
        Good job Eddie. +1 to your credibility rating. Now get out there and support the right of all of us to keep and bear arms. Even scary looking ones.

      • phideaux

        More spurious prevarication from eddie I see.

      • eddie47d

        Don’t be shy Phideaux please tell us which of those terrorist militias groups do you belong to. If you talk and walk like a duck you must be one of them!

  • ToughGuy1

    Yeah, Wayne Allyn Root, and Wayne LaPierre. Thank you! Emphasize in correctlng the Dem., libs, and the lib media of their outrageous hypocritical, don’t do their research of the right to bear arms! True Americans should read the US Constitution that provides the rights to defend themselves under the 2nd Amendment. Furthermore, about Obama’s control of his free gun zones? Should be no zones! America isn’t like, or should be combative Iraq, and Afghanistan. I’m a gun owner, former US Army, Special Forces – Patriot. Desert Storm Veteran. Proud to serve my country!

    • eddie47d

      Wayne La Pierre has done nothing more than cover his own ass and probably couldn’t even answer a simple question like is the sky blue today. He’s an excuse maker plain and simple! Apparently Tough Guy wants a Taliban nation were they are armed and control the people and the government is scared of its own shadow and can’t do a thing. No different than what the right wingers want for this nation.

      • FreedomFighter

        Its “We the people” not “We in government”

        So at least in your limited
        idiot way you admit “right wingers” are for America as it should be.

        Laus Deo
        Semper Fi

      • DaveH

        Another useless comment from the useless Troll Eddie.

        • Jeff

          CB:

          I didn’t think it was possible, but you’ve gotten even creepier since Christmas. Did Santa leave you cans of spinach or what? Your insults have grown increasingly childish. You don’t even adorn your misanthropic posts with Viennese postcards anymore. Ah, the good old days.

      • phideaux

        Thanks Jeff you have described eddie perfectly.

      • DaveH

        So basically, Jeff, you are saying that the readers are too ignorant to look up your various comments to see that you have little to add to the conversation except Trollish personal attacks?

  • charles

    So how do we propose to create a better mental health care system. Folks can’t afford these services, and mentally unstable people don’t just willingly surrender themselves to state hospitals.
    It takes ppl willing to be that guy who called on his eccentric neighbor or parent or son/daughter. And when the judge/doctor make the call to label someone as mental defective, then we have yet another person permanently attached to the govt teet.

    I see no clear solution to this problem. Either we buckled down and admit there are those among us who NEED help, or we continue to neglect them until the govt takes our freedoms away in an effort to use a dragnet over the problem.

    • tony newbill
      • charles

        Well, we might start by marijuana reform laws and non violent offender prison reform.

        Also, one of the largest contributors to mental health disorder is abuse. A large contributor to this is school age bullying. Let’s start treating school bullies like the criminals they are. We say we’re going to take this seriously, but as soon as the next headline comes up, this issue is quickly forgotten. We have to take a hard-line approach to this, and not yield. It doesn’t do much to lower the mental health problem today, but we’d definitely see results with a decade.

        One more thing we need to do is level the playing field. The idea of supply and demand economics works very well for products, but it becomes a hindrance to the growth of a society when ppl are treated like commodities. The fact is that the fast food worker typically works just as hard or harder than the plastic surgeon. Sure the plastic surgeon invested tens of thousands if not more into his/her education and thus should be paid far greater, but as the disparity between the rich and the poor grows, so will the breakdown of our society. We can either deal with it, or it will deal with us.

        • tony newbill

          Charles I agree and the fact that so many that are on Unemployment are not leading a productive self empowering life because we do not have a Growing economic base is contributing to more abuse in the family and a lack of tax revenues generated by better overall incomes streams and these things together are compounding the problem , and it is a lack of leadership in the policy making chairs of Government that is driving this denigration of society !!!

    • Karolyn

      Having had to deal with a mentally ill loved-one, I can tell you that it is a circus! There are not enough beds or facilites for people who need the help, let alone those who desire help. Insurance companies will only pay for so much for those who manage to find a bed, forcing hospitals to release those who do need more care. Then there’s the craftiness of the mentally ill who do not want to take their medications or do the things they themselves can do to better their condition. Then there’s the reluctance by many to seek alternate therapies, including nutritional. Of course, add to that cuts to mental health funding; and you have the makings of an even worse scenario. Getting someone committed is not easy unless they admit to wanting to harm themselves or others, which many of them will not confess to. It is a horrendous situation to face and is rampant throughout the country and the world. There are no easy answers.

    • eddie47d

      That is why I ignore the likes of Wayne La Pierre who ducks and covers and lays it all the the mental health issue. Each side has their excuses instead of confronting the big picture. Conservatives wince every time health care is brought up and mental health is part of that scenario. They plain and simply will not pay for a better system so who are they trying to fool now! The same people with problems will still be out there 20 years from now. No different than the drug use issue. Treatment can cost $10-20,000 and clean up a person in less than a year. Yet Conservatives vote for tougher incarceration rates so that same drug user spends several years in prison at $30,000 a year. They are not even penny wise but way out there in being pound foolish.

  • DaveH

    Wayne says — “But the Newtown tragedy wasn’t a gun problem; it was a mental illness problem”.
    And here is a side of the story that you won’t hear in the MSM:
    http://www.infowars.com/school-shooter-adam-lanza-likely-on-meds-labeled-as-having-personality-disorder/

  • hipshotpercusion

    It is interesting to note, that more people are beat to death in this country than are killed by firearms. Murder has always been with us. Kain slew his half brother Abel with a rock.That is one of the reasons I and many other people carry weapons.

    “God created man, but, it was Sam Colt who made us equal.”

    “An armed society is a polite society.” Robert Anson Heinlein

    • eddie47d

      The Taliban is well armed and they are not a “polite society”. Sam Colt only made people equally dead! Cain did kill Abel so apparently God gave man the will to kill and didn’t stop it when he had the chance. Maybe we are His pawns and He enjoys watching us kill each other! Is it really free will or does each man desire the ability to control another through violence?

      • Vicki

        eddie47d says:
        “The Taliban is well armed and they are not a “polite society”.”

        Deliberate attempt to confuse. The Taliban are not a society.

        eddie47d: “Sam Colt only made people equally dead!”

        Deliberate libel. No credible evidence that Sam Colt shot anyone let alone murdered them.

        eddie47d: “Cain did kill Abel so apparently God gave man the will to kill and didn’t stop it when he had the chance.”

        So the bible isn’t all myth and story?

        eddie47d: “Maybe we are His pawns and He enjoys watching us kill each other!”

        Or maybe He loves his Creation but has some serious punishment planned for those who take His gift away.

        eddie47d: “Is it really free will or does each man desire the ability to control another through violence?”

        Judging from the ~50-100 million gun owners the answer must be that only a few desire the ability to control another. Some use violence (with or without a gun). Others, like Karolyn hire and pay government agents to do it for her.

  • Don W

    What a great article and so true. Here in Israel there is a move by the politicians to disarm the general public. It seems that they have forgotten about Germany in the 1930′s. In the end only the Hamas and other terrorists will be armed, oh yes, I forgot, the politicians will be able to hold weapons, surprise, surprise.

    • Vicki

      Please remind the fine people of Israel of this site.

      http://www.jpfo.org

      • Don W

        Hi Vicki, Thank you very much I was not aware of this site. Happy New Year.

  • DaveH

    Wayne says — “I’m a member of both the NRA (National Rifle Association) and JPFO (Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership). Will I support reasonable gun control? Of course.
    Should we ensure that mentally ill people cannot purchase guns? Of course”.
    That sounds so nice, but the reality is — “Who determines the mental illness?”.
    I, for instance, think Liberal Progressives are mentally ill. I mean, how else can they so blindly rationalize taking other peoples’ property? What else would drive them to ignore economic logic and the experience of History and to embrace Socialism?
    So imagine if I was the shrink who got to decide?

    It’s always so easy after the fact to exercise our hindsight and ask “How could we have let that person get a gun?”. But in reality, those determinations are not so easy. Think about going to the movies, for instance, where the bad guy is well-developed. So we might think “Yay, kill that creep”. But in real life, that badness isn’t so well-exposed, and oftentimes the “bad guy” victim wasn’t really so bad.

    Here are some reasons not to let yourself be lulled into a stupor by the “background check” mentality:
    http://gunowners.org/fs2011b.htm

    • eddie47d

      Your right Dave H for there are several mentally disturbed right wingers who search out these sites so it wouldn’t be hard to find them. Some are so whacked out they are as sneaky and conniving as Hannibal Lector. Matter of fact some are enthralled with torture, blood and guts and the whole nine yards. Some even bath in the glory of guns and think that is the only law they need. Sometimes I think Dave needs to have his “background” checked before he has a fringe moment!

      • DaveH

        Begone, you sick little Troll.

  • FreedomFighter

    In the 20th Century:
    ■ Governments murdered four times as many civilians as were killed in all the international and domestic wars combined.
    ■ Governments murdered millions more people than were killed by common criminals.

    How could governments kill so many people? The governments had the power – and the people, the victims, were unable to resist. The victims were unarmed.

    http://jpfo.org/filegen-a-m/deathgc.htm

  • DaveH

    Wayne says — “Should government be allowed to take away guns from honest, law-abiding homeowners, business owners, and citizens like me?”.
    Here we go again. How many of you haven’t broken one law or another during your lives? It’s almost impossible not to break a law with the gargantuan array of laws on our books. And, short of being a cold-blooded killer, or chronic violent criminal, do those law-breakers no longer have a right to defend themselves? How many people, for instance, are felons because they bought or sold marijuana?
    Read this, please:
    http://gunowners.org/op0368.htm

    • eddie47d

      I actually agree with what you said but not for the same reasons. You always leave out the equation that its Conservatives (Democrats,Republicans and Independents) who vote for or enact draconian laws to keep people in prison. They throw the book at the marijuana smoker but refuse to indict the Wall Street thieves caught red handed committing Insider Trading and stealing millions. The system does stink at times but the “bad guys” aren’t always the real bad guys. Then we have the gun trafficking problems yet the Conservatives focus on the government (F&F) (rightfully so) yet totally ignores the rouge gun dealers in the other parts of the country. Its almost like they are underground heros when they are no more than criminals adding other criminals.

      • DaveH

        Eddie, if you agree with anything I say, then I figure I must be saying something wrong. I can’t think of another regular commenter who is more twisted than you are.

      • eddie47d

        Why? Because I’m not a sheeple like you are with your one tracked mind who believes all the BS spewed around here!

      • JC

        DaveH…I think the twisted little freak actually admires you. ;-)

    • http://wildeyguns.com The Christian American

      How about the last three Presidents that I konw of. They all admitted to being pot smoking felons. Hold them to the law. Take away their right to defend themselves, like Obama wants to do to us.

  • Liberterian

    More gun control is not the answer and will never be. Common sense is never the case for liberals, because they are always regulate and legislate freaks first. More law is not the solution, enforce the ones we already have. We should never as a people consider even in the least to become a nation of sheep subserviant to the chance of the birth of a totally intrusive government that would exert total control of an unarmed nation. No one loves tragedy but some of this tragedy would be averted if we would fully train capable teachers and staff in schools to be conceal carry and competant. In Isreal they ended their problem of school attacks by arming and training the people within the schools to the fullest and have defeated the problem. Nothing is full proof but it has been proven effective. You can’t have police in all the schools, the financial burden would be too great. Guards and Police can be singled out and planned for by people of criminal mind but a hard target with capable, trained and willing teachers, and staff, within the schools have a fighting chance. The police can’t be everywhere and to disarm the American public and leave guns only to criminals and the insane which can buy them through black market sources is not the answer. More mental health care is necessary to help the problem but can not of itself solve the problem. Why are so many of our military heros commiting suicide because no one wants to help them? Is it the gun’s fault?
    We are a violence oriented society from our very beginning. The media is there to provide this violence to the public and then become alarmed when there fruit comes to bear its on product. What greater instant fame could be reaped by the insane than to become a household word even though in the infamous sense.

    • eddie47d

      Wayne La Pierre was totally wrong on school shootings in Israel. He said they had many when its only been two and one was in 1974 and the other in 2008. Both were assaults from Palestinian terrorists not disgruntled Israeli citizens. Some school teacher are armed to protect the kids from such attacks but not all. As well armed as Israeli citizens are it is still far fewer than than in the USA (% wise). Guns are for protecting their nation from outside invasion not from fear of gun free zones. Israel take guns serious and are accountable for them which is totally opposite of here. We are reckless and treat them like play things.

      • http://wildeyguns.com The Christian American

        Israel practices our Posse Comitatus Act. Works for them and would work here.

    • Flashy

      “More gun control is not the answer ” <— libertarian

      Ummm…we don't have gun control in this nation. If we did, fewer bad guys would have guns. And the good guys would still have theirs.

      As for Israel, perhaps you should read the post from an israeli citizen posted here today …

      • Vicki

        Flashy says:
        ““More gun control is not the answer ” <— libertarian

        Ummm…we don't have gun control in this nation. If we did, fewer bad guys would have guns. And the good guys would still have theirs. "

        Demonstrably false. Since you know it is false this would make your statement a willful lie. Why do you bother? Do you think anyone, even a new reader, would be fooled?

        Do you still wonder that you have ZERO credibility on this board?

        • Jeff

          No non-Austrian could possibly be on DaveH’s level, but why has no one addressed the question I’ve posed numerous times. If guns are so great for preventing gun violence, why does the U.S. have 5% of the world’s population, 50% of its guns, and a gun death rate hundreds of times higher than any other advanced nation. Can none of you see a connection?

      • Vicki

        Jeff writes:
        ” Can none of you see a connection?”

        We see a connection. Irrelevant and /or unproven statistics are commonly used by liars and politicians.

        • Jeff

          Statistics are misused all the time. It’s why you have to look carefully at any argument that uses statistics in an odd way, like limiting the sample or the time period. This one stays pretty steady. we have the most guns by a mile and the most gun deaths by 5 miles. Which part is the lie?

      • DaveH

        Could it be, Jeff, that being the wealthiest country in the world, we have in our midst a large supply of very spoiled people who think what belongs to others should be theirs for the taking. That should be an easy concept to grasp given that you are one of them.
        But if that isn’t enough, please explain why Utah, being one of the most pro-gun states in the Union, has 1/3 the murder rate of California, one of the most anti-gun states in the Union?
        Clearly it’s a cultural thing and has nothing to do with the inanimate guns.
        Killers are killers, and thieves are thieves, Jeff. Yes, I’m looking at you.

        • macgyver1948

          DaveH… I see you are “Jeff. Yes, I’m looking at you” when you phrased your comment but I have to ask. How can any of us know why there are more crimes committed in one state than another? Statistics can only give us something to think about and perhaps patterns for that area or subject. But maybe when there is less morals or less or no God, if you believe in God, in a person the more prone that person is to committing crimes and sins. Laws can be just like locks on doors, they keep the moral and law biding people out, not the criminals or the crazies. People have to want to do what is right, care about the laws or not want to be punished by them enough to keep from doing crime. It has so much less to do with where they are.

      • DaveH

        I see that Jeff has joined the ranks of liars like Flashman and Eddie. No wonder he calls me Creepy Bastard. He doesn’t like me holding up the mirror in which he can see his true ugliness.

        Jeff says — “and a gun death rate hundreds of times higher than any other advanced nation”.

        Here’s the truth, which you won’t get from Liberal Progressives like Jeff:
        http://gunowners.org/op0746.htm

      • DaveH

        Here’s an interesting little tidbit:
        Venezuela and Chile share 59th place among 178 countries in Private Gun Ownership.
        Venezuela has a murder rate of 45.1 per 100,000 citizens.
        Chile has a murder rate of 3.2 per 100,000 citizens.
        Venezuela is a mostly Socialist country.
        Chile is a mostly Capitalist country.

  • jopa

    I just hate that when these law abiding citizens with guns turn into mass murderers and start killing kids in kindergarten,school cafeterias, movie theatres, political speeches and firemen just doing their job.But I guess the NRA solution would be to arm all the teachers,popcorn and ticket sales people at the theaters and mount 50 cal. machine guns on all fire trucks.Better yet when the firemen get a call they could call for air support and have the ares cluster bombed or strafed before they went in to fight a fire.Any innocents killed is just collateral damage to the NRA.I am for the right to bear arms just against stupidity.

    • S.C.Murf

      Then please point the gun at yourself.

      up the hill
      airborne

    • JC

      The bullets come out the end with the little round hole…now off you go.

    • Vicki

      jopa says:
      “I just hate that when these law abiding citizens with guns turn into mass murderers and start killing kids in kindergarten,school cafeterias, movie theatres, political speeches and firemen just doing their job.”

      “I just hate that when these law abiding citizens with cars turn into mass murderers and start killing kids in school buses and school crosswalks, in parking lots of theaters, at political rallies and have even been known to run over firemen (who were) just doing their job.

      As Archie Bunker once said to his daughter: ” Would it make you feel any better, little girl, if they was pushed out of windows?”

      • eddie47d

        Apparently some of you do!

  • http://wildeyguns.com The Christian American

    Guns do more than save lives. The PEOPLE’s guns created America. The situation in America is worse the “liberal and media hype”, it’s the rise of a COMMUNIST STATE where America use to be. Satan has engulfed America. His presence is felt in every facet of American life. In Newtown a young man that turned his body, soul and spirit over to Satan through his fascination with Satanic video games to a point where he made them a reality. Satanic TV, Movies, clothing, you name it. He enjoyed slaughtering little children and some adults and ultimately himself. The question is, why is “the” government ignoring Satan’s role and hell bent on stripping the people of there God given right to defend themselves?

    The Founders had just had a war with their own tyrannical government, a war that was fought largely with their own weapons. The Founders new well more people are persecuted by their own government than are ever persecuted by invading armies. It took eleven years to pen a Consitution and the inclusion of the Second Amendment was one of them. Thomas Jefferson said, I paraphrase, the people must have the ability to defend themselves, possibly from their own government.

    In the 20th century, their were two governments of note that stripped their people of their to defend thenselves. They were NAZI Germany and the COMMUNIST USSR. Is America destined to be like them? In America we have the Posse Comitatus act. That means that any law abiding citizen can be deputized as a law enforcement officer to aid the people in law enforcement in time of need. WITH THEIR OWN WEAPONS. When the situation subsides they would go back to their own line of work. This started back in the early Roman times, and it worked. We have volunteer firemen. Why can’t we have volunteer School guards? The police can offer courses to learn what to do. If would cost nothing.

    No. I must look at the government we serve. With the mountain of evidence against their agenda in this case, why are they giving Satan a free ride and hell bent on stripping the people of their ability to defend themselves? One young child volunteered to burn his Satanic video games. They come up advertising to quit smoking. Why can’t they come up with educational materials to get rid of Satan’s tools. We’ve had Satan and his disciples busy at work in Columbine, Aurora, Newtown and God knows where else and what do we hear———————? Here’s another reason to read and believe John 3:16

    • eddie47d

      Now that was cleaver C.A. “the peoples guns created America” . Maybe that’s the problem where gun owners don’t know the difference between fighting tyranny and slaughtering people as they go. The gun is the great problem solver where the person with the gun solves his problems by riding himself of his problem. Worked real well with the Native Americans where the only good Indian was a dead Indian. We took and stole from one end of this country to the other and the gun paved the way. Even in Texas they said the only good Mexican is a dead Mexican. Yes that is how America was created and the gun made it happen. Yes we have it ingrained in our heads that the gun will take care of everything.

      • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

        Dear eddie47d,

        You write: “Maybe that’s the problem where gun owners don’t know the difference between fighting tyranny and slaughtering people as they go.” Your comments are getting more ridiculous and infantile by the day. Why do you insist on lumping legitimate gun owners–who do know “the difference between fighting tyranny and slaughtering people as they go”–and criminals who give not a whit about breaking another new law? Purported Sandy Hook shooter Lanza violated about a half dozen laws before he ever shot his first child. One more would not have made him pause. For your own sake, stop posting and retain what little dignity you have left.

        Best wishes,
        Bob

        • tony newbill

          Bobs right just like how did the crazy get guns when he was not suppose to have that he used to shoot the firemen he setup ?
          There is no way disarming the citizenry will insure the welfare of the public when these guns will be manufactured some where in the world and Black marketed into the USA , it will become the next Drug to be Trafficked into the USA and only to the criminals in even a more intense manner once they know everyone is disarmed !!!!

      • eddie47d

        Wow Tony! Apparently its just better to be killed with an American made weapon!

      • http://wildeyguns.com The Christian American

        You’d really like Afghanistan under the Taliban eddie47. Why don’t you give it a try?

      • http://wildeyguns.com The Christian American

        eddie47(dumb) I see your well versed in Communist logic. The Communists teach, group your enemies with things the people find repugnant. If you don’t have one, create one. Yup! Your an open book eddie47. Your god and definition of morality is whatever comes into your head, a danger to a God fearing society.

      • tony newbill

        With the way you always focus on the USA as the Problem and that your ilk is the only remedy Baiting everyone Eddie47d is your Specialty you buffoon !

      • http://yahoo.com Ron Pariseau

        Mr. Eddie47d, let me tell you this, I have had guns in my hands since I was 12 years old, I am now 66. Every day at lunch time at school the “bully” would take my lunch money away from me, on my paper route, the area I went to the gang would steal my paper route money, NOT ONCE did I want to go home and get one of my guns and fix this problem, now this is as 12 year old kid who did nopt watch viloent movies and video games. I served TWO tours of Combat in Viet Nam where I was wounded. It was a business killing the enemy, nothing personal, it was kill or be killed and my Govenrment asked me to do it. Today I am LEGALLY LICENSED finger printed, mug shot, registered gun owner. When the gun was made it had a serial number on it, it was registered with the ATF, FBI, CIA and whoever else has need to know, when the gun went to the store where I bought it, it had a ton of paperwork with it, I had to presnt my CCW, and another ID, I had to sign tons of paperwork, I was “background check” from license application to gun purchase, and even when I buy ammo, I need to show the CCW. IF you take away LEGAL GUN OWNER RIGHTS, you will still have the following, DRIVE-BY SHOOTING BY ILLEGAL GUNS, FELONS WITH GUN, VIOLENT VIDEO GAME PROGRAMMED INSANE PEOPLE WITH GUNS! THESE GUNS ARE BOUGHT ON THE BLACK MARKET, NOT IN A LEGAL, PAPERWORK filled store with regulations followed to the perverbial “TEE”. Get your facts straight before you condem the wrong people! GUNS DON’T KILL! INSANE PEOPLE DO! If New York is going to show a map with all LEGAL CCW licensed people on it, then we have a right to know where the Child molester, Felon, Anti-Government, and MENTALLY ILL people live, don’t you think it fair! Wouldn’t you want to know where the “bad guys” lives near you so you would know how to protect your kids, wife, dog, cat, friends?

      • eddie47d

        Some of you need to really listen closely to what some of the gun “nuts” have to say and quite a few are not pleasant. They are their own gang of insanity!

  • Bill

    Let me ask you…If somone brakes into your house and you and your family are in bed what are you goying to throw a hammer >>>>> I Know the CAT HOW DO YOU PROTECT YOUR FAMILY???????<<<<<<<<<<>>> FINE PUT MY PHONE AND CELL NUMBERS DO ME A FAVOR then everyone will know to leve my house alone!!!!

    • Flashy

      Well Bill, since no one has called for taking away your guns, i suppose you could throw the hammer at ‘em if you chose. gun control is about controlling access by the bad guys, and tracing their guns to those supplying the bad guys. you have something against that? Or……are you a bad guy?

      • http://wildeyguns.com The Christian American

        Let me ask you Flashy? Who’s to determine who’s the bad guys and who’s the good guys? Could being politically correct or not politically correct have anything to do with it?

      • momo

        Flashman, your problem is you think bad guys are going to follow the law. If a bad guy can’t buy a gun on the black market, he’ll steal one…duh. You think a law is going to stop them? Good luck with that.

      • DaveH

        Flashman’s “problem” is that he is just here to disrupt good people who are seeking solutions to our loss of Freedom under Big Government. He is nothing more than a Big Government promoting shill.
        http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread826545/pg1&addstar=1&on=13829871#pid13829871

      • Flashy

        “Flashman, your problem is you think bad guys are going to follow the law. If a bad guy can’t buy a gun on the black market, he’ll steal one…duh. You think a law is going to stop them? Good luck with that.” <— Momo

        No Momo…i don't think the bad guys will adhere to the law…that's why they are the "bad guys". but I do think we should have a sales registry to be able to follow the gun backwards and nail the suppliers of weapons to the bad guys. I do think we should limit the availability of offensive weapons to the overall general public, and I do think we need to have a Concealed Weapons Permit system which has some teeth to it…

        Not take away guns, nor register guns.

      • DaveH

        Pure equivocation, Flashshill.
        For those people who want to know the Facts, rather than the Propaganda spewed by Flashshill and his Liberal Progressive cohorts who just want you to be disarmed and helpless against their kind when they try to complete their total subjugation of you:
        http://personalliberty.com/2012/12/27/guns-save-lives/#comment-793278

      • JC

        Flashy says:
        December 27, 2012 at 10:32 am
        Well Bill, since no one has called for taking away your guns, i suppose you could throw the hammer at ‘em if you chose. gun control is about controlling access by the bad guys,
        ______________________________________________________________________

        Which is completely and totally impossible. That’s what makes you idiots delusional…you just don’t get it.

      • phideaux

        Flashy says

        “but I do think we should have a sales registry”

        then he says

        “, nor register guns.”

        He is so twisted he cannot even keep up with what he says from beginning to end of a single post.

      • Vicki

        Flashy says:
        “Well Bill, since no one has called for taking away your guns, …..”

        Demonstrably false and you have been told before, with cite to prove the fact. Since you continue to make this claim you are LYING. Credibility -1 But since you already are at 0 there is no change.
        http://hotair.com/archives/2012/12/22/confiscation-could-be-an-option/

        From the same cite:
        “Whether we hear it from the clucking tongues of guests on Morning Joe or from their legions of supporters on the web, the patter is the same. “No one is coming for your guns.” You’re all just being paranoid, disingenuous or worse. ”

        Now does that sound familiar? Flashy is not the only one here to use it.

    • eddie47d

      Bill is spreading falsehoods again. Yes you can use a gun to protect your home,family and property. Now you could use a rock or a hammer but guess what you have the 2nd Amendment that gives you the right to do so. Gun control is not confiscation but apparently few on the right can grasp that!

      • DaveH

        What we can grasp, Eddie, is that your comments are filled with unsupported conjecture and other meaningless drivel.

      • eddie47d

        Oh really Dave H!

      • JeffH

        Really eddie!

      • Vicki

        eddie47d writes in error:
        “Gun control is not confiscation but apparently few on the right can grasp that!”

        Apparently you need to have a talk with some politicians. They did not get your memo.
        http://hotair.com/archives/2012/12/22/confiscation-could-be-an-option/

      • eddie47d

        I don’t equate any owner of an automatic or semi-automatic weapon to have a sane personality. If that is you so be it!

      • Average Joe

        “I don’t equate any owner of an automatic or semi-automatic weapon to have a sane personality.”

        Funny, I feel the same way about anyone named eddie47d who seems to believes that he has any semblence of intelligence or that his words carry any weight at all with thinking human beings….If that is you so be it!

        Please take Mr. Livingston’s advice:

        “For your own sake, stop posting and retain what little dignity you have left.”

        AJ

  • Capitalist at Birth

    I have read enough here to know that it is a waste of time debating the Second Amendment with the likes of Flashless, eddie, and Karolyn. I will not spend any more time today. Their thoughts are predictable. They are Totalitarian, and would like to see the rest of us enslaved. Don’t waste your time either. Lock and Load. Keep your powder dry, and be prepared for the coming attacks. Good Day.

    • http://wildeyguns.com The Christian American

      One thing about the involuntary socialist, they’re very predictable. When someone wants to take charge of your life, liberties and properties and plan your life for you, like it or not, he’s not your friend, he’s a slavemaster and your his slave. When he says jump, your suppose ask how high?

      • tony newbill

        the right to self finance of our freedom will only come from our secession from the WTO !!!
        This change from the Ideology thats taking away Freedom is going to only come from the USA getting out of this WTO fiasco it starts here , http://tinyurl.com/csqkvqk

      • eddie47d

        Too bad Christian American can’t comprehend that Christians can also be slavemasters such as the plantation owners. Was God on their side and gave them His blessings? Do you control the rights of gays by denying them rights Do you poke and prod into a woman’s life and tell her what she can or can’t willingly do? Too many Americans have to jump so high to navigator your rules and regulations too!

      • Flashy

        So CA…you’re saying you are an involuntary socialist?

      • nc

        Christian, when some one wants to take away their liberties and tell them what they can do or not do with their bodies, they vote Democrat! See 2012 election results! I didn’t want to make you aware of that because it helped us so much but I just couldn’t resist the opportunity rub your nose in it!

      • Vicki

        eddie47d says:
        “Too bad Christian American can’t comprehend that Christians can also be slavemasters such as the plantation owners. Was God on their side and gave them His blessings?

        Seems not as they are all dead and their slaves too.

        eddie47d: “Do you control the rights of gays by denying them rights”

        What rights be those? Gays are allowed to vote, speak, marry, own guns etc.

        eddie47d: “Do you poke and prod into a woman’s life and tell her what she can or can’t willingly do?”

        We don’t unless she is planning to murder her unborn child. Why she can even buy contraceptives. We just don’t want to be forced to pay for it.

    • eddie47d

      Adios Capitalist at Birth. Enjoy your time away for your mind is “locked” away and your pants “loaded”!

  • James Andrews

    To the idiots that bash the NRA: I thank God we have the NRA. They may not be perfect, but, without them, we wouldn’t have half of the rights we have today. And as far as any “assault” style weaponry, as the leftist, fascist press refers to them are concerned, We The People, have every right on the planet to own such weaponry, ESPECIALLY if the crooks in Washington and their armed militias do! That’s what the Second Amendment id all about, is our right to defend ourselves from our own government, should they turn tyrannical! And, in many instances, especially financially, they ALREADY HAVE! Wake up, anti gun morons!

    • eddie47d

      Wake up you pro-gun “morons” (your word). Yes the NRA are “idiots” (your word) for allowing so many mass killing weapons to be spread through out this land. You don’t need a multiple 15-30 round magazine to protect your home and family. The NRA has fooled you on that one! The NRA has tarnished decent gun owners and the once proud 2nd Amendment. It was never enacted to give gun owners free reign to shoot anyone that pleases them or to be used in mass shootings. Gun violence may well be with us because it is the American culture that accepts it but I see absolutely nothing from the NRA that will stop it or at least slow it down.

      • DaveH

        I see Eddie is bucking for another trip to the woodshed.
        We won’t miss you, Eddie.

      • eddie47d

        Are you now doubling as the censorship police !

      • http://wildeyguns.com The Christian American

        Oh! Your for the “new” American culture. The culture that accepts murdering babies in their mothers womb, sodomy as alternative life style, Satanic video games, Satanic TV and movies, Satanic Clothing and makeup. America’s road to Empire that’s costing American blood and money, the trading with counterfeit FRN’s until the bubble bursts, lying to ourselves saying “lifes good”. I think I understand your thinking.

      • phideaux

        ” Yes the NRA are “idiots” (your word)”

        Show us where he said that eddie.

        If eddie twisted things around any more he would be rejected by a pretzel factory for being to twisted up.

        The rest of his comment is just as twisted if not more so.

  • Terry Mitchell

    Where I live, the local police force has vowed NOT to disarm law abiding citizens even if ordered to do so by the Feds.

    I hope a majority of our military and LEOs are believers , if not members, of the Oath Keepers (www.oathkeepers.org).

  • Joz

    Every Liberal should turn in his/her gun in. Guns don’t kill… Idiot’s pulling a trigger pointing the gun at you KILL !

  • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAY

    One things for sure, this issue will NOT, go away!

    Who can go the distance? We’ll find out, in the long run!
    We can handle some resistance
    If our love is a strong one
    People talkin’ about us
    They got nothin’ else to do
    When it all comes down we will
    Still come through
    In the long run…Eagles!

    • http://wildeyguns.com The Christian American

      People might think this only a gun possession issue but it’s far more than that. We’re playing with America being a free nation or not. You CANNOT win an argument with people dedicated to a cause, and that’s what we’re talking about. You CANNOT reason with them because, from the beginning they are totally unreasonable. Votes might be able to do it. Politicians are for sale to the one’s with the most votes Oh there’s some God fearing Americans in their midst but I dare say you can count them on one hand. Pelozzi got a scare in Ohio a while ago and backed off the issue but she’s back.

  • http://midcontent brand inspector

    The socualist/marxist pukes who support the BS coming from the total government control dem party, are the same idoits who came up with drug free zones, no tabacco, and gun free zones. These are the same brand of book trained morons, who think they can keep stolen items out of the hands of bad guys and loony toons. Of course dems and their presidental canidates all have the morals of rats, and marriage laws donn’t apply to them, and mean nothing, since their whore house mindset of lying and cheating is the norm.

    • eddie47d

      Speaking of loony tunes and brand inspector shoots his mouth off proving that some folks shouldn’t have a gun in their possession!

  • ZAR

    I think the dolution si simple. Get rid of Politicians.

    I know I will be unpopular, i always am, but as a Monarchist, I’d like to note that int he supposed tyranny of Monarchy, when the kigns and Lords had powers, we hadmroe luiberties than in the modern Era of Democracy.

  • FreedomFighter

    Official numbers are not yet available, but by my estimates, in the last ten days alone over 10 million firearms were purchased in America, and over a billion rounds of ammunition were taken home and put away by U.S. gun owners.

    This was, of course, all a reaction to the screaming gun grabbers who are hyperventilating about guns and ignorantly calling for the abolishment of the Second Amendment and the complete disarmament of the American people. This utterly insane screaming fest by whiny, pathetic gun grabbers and collectivist control freaks has only accomplished one thing: the massive ARMAMENT of American citizens, most of whom absolutely will NOT surrender their firearms under any circumstances.

    Support for the Second Amendment remains strong and resilient across real America. While the gun-grabbing, lying collectivist media is trying to create the illusion that Americans don’t like guns, the truth is that America was founded on the right to keep and bear arms, and Americans innately understand that throughout history, liberty must be defended by force. This defense of liberty depends entirely on the People owning, possessing and using firearms.

    Americans fully realize that disarmament is the path to enslavement and tyranny.

    http://fromthetrenchesworldreport.com/a-warning-to-gun-grabbers-and-collectivist-media-by-calling-for-gun-control-you-are-unleashing-your-own-worst-nightmare/29159/

    Laus Deo
    Semper Fi

  • DaveH

    The only reason Gun Control might stop school shootings is that the perpetrators might no longer feel a need to stage their False Flag killings to get their way.
    http://www.wanttoknow.info/falseflag

    • Jeff

      So you’re suggesting Obama and the Democrats are behind all these mass shootings by gun nuts? I was right. You HAVE been eating your spinach and HAVE gotten even creepier.

      • Karolyn

        Yeah, Jeff, even Dave has succumbed to the conspiracy theory disease.

      • Vicki

        Jeff says:
        “So you’re suggesting Obama and the Democrats are behind all these mass shootings by gun nuts?”

        Well he can’t very well blame President Bush. Unlike liberals he understands that obama is the acting President so if there is a false flag event obama would be the one responsible.

        • Jeff

          The good thing about being completely irresponsible is you can say anything and there are some deluded enough to believe it. Dick Morris, Karl Rove, and the denizens of this cave come to mind.

      • DaveH

        Well, Karolyn, you could read a book and see that La La Land isn’t as rosy as you think. But then that would take effort, wouldn’t it Karolyn? It’s much easier to hang around this board acting like a Harpy, isn’t it?
        Here’s just one of many:
        http://library.mises.org/books/Percy%20L%20Greaves,%20Jr/Pearl%20Harbor%20The%20Seeds%20and%20Fruits%20of%20Infamy.pdf

      • DaveH

        Who’s creepier, Jeff, a guy who would allow people to protect themselves, or a guy who wants to disarm them and make them helpless victims?

      • DaveH

        Here’s another one that Karolyn won’t read:
        http://library.mises.org/books/John%20V%20Denson/A%20Century%20of%20War%20Lincoln,%20Wilson%20and%20Roosevelt.pdf

        I can’t even imagine what kind of person would bury their heads in the sand and not read anything that goes contrary to what they want to believe, and then worst of all, carp at others who do make the effort. I would be ashamed to show my face in public if I pursued such a coarse of ignorance.

      • Karolyn

        Dave – To be honest, I have tended to believe many historical conspiracy theories. However, I do believe that things these days are way over the top; and when I do read contrary theories which also sound real, I would rather believe the good news when weighing my options. I do believe that you were not a believer not too long ago.

      • DaveH

        I have always known that there are creepy people who deceive others, Karolyn. I was related to two of them. I just don’t dwell on it. But on the other hand, I also wouldn’t poo poo others who do.
        If you’d just spend as much time reading a few books as you do pestering good people on this board, you would wake up. Here would be an excellent wake-up book:
        http://www.amazon.com/The-Real-Lincoln-Abraham-Unnecessary/dp/0761536418

        Or you can just whistle Dixie and pretend the world is full of good people with unselfish intentions. That’s fine with me, but condescending others who chose to be awake isn’t.

      • JC

        Jeff says:
        December 27, 2012 at 4:18 pm
        So you’re suggesting Obama and the Democrats are behind all these mass shootings by gun nuts? I was right. You HAVE been eating your spinach and HAVE gotten even creepier.
        ________________________________________________________________
        Oh Heck No! The Democrats would have difficulty organizing a bake sale and the Kenyan has difficulty stringing together a coherent sentence without a teleprompter…

        There’s nothing but questions after this tragic shooting, and no good answers.
        It does reek of a cover up, but if something more happened, it happened way above the Kenyans pay grade.

        • macgyver1948

          JC… To suggest the Dems aren’t smart enough to organize a bake sale is lacking in reality. Consider, for one, how Obama and the Dems won the presidency again does say they must have been smarter than all that money and so-called brains behind Mitt. Or maybe they won because they offer more of what is wanted and needed by the majority of the voters, and I suggest for many of those who voted against the Prez. Regardless it wouldn’t pay for the Dems to organize citizen killings. Cover ups are used by both sides to hide the truth from us but not in these cases and until it can be proven otherwise we will not know. Much like we cannot prove 911 was an inside job and bush jr knew about it in advance.

          As you say there are loads of questions remaining with these tragic shootings but most of them should be around what set off the crazies doing them, the ones with the guns and the mind sets to kill. That is for the shrinks to ponder.

      • JC

        I didn’t suggest the Dems organized anything…read my post again.
        What I said was that if anything was organized it was way above the Kenyans pay grade.
        Our government is just the entertainment portion of the Bankers and their NWO movement anyway…it’s just a “show”. And as long as our government is a puppet show that does nothing to protect anyone…I’ll be keeping my guns, thank you very much! :)

        • BR549

          JC wrote: “Our government is just the entertainment portion of the Bankers and their NWO movement anyway…it’s just a “show”. And as long as our government is a puppet show that does nothing to protect anyone…I’ll be keeping my guns, thank you very much!”

          JC, you’re kickin’ butt this morning and not taking any prisoners. Thumbs up!

  • Louis Lemieux

    With time and patience love and trust will win over arms and violence. That’s what happened when pacific Christians confronted the gladiator loving Romans.

  • http://yahoo.com Ron Pariseau

    PUTNAM CONNECTICUT Police Chief says, “Connecticut State Gun Laws say if a gun has any TWO of the following it is illegal, a flash suppressor, a pistol grip, .223 caliber. I can’t find anything in the State Gun laws taht say that! Someone out here know where this Chief got his info?

    • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

      Dear Ron Pariseau,

      I’m sure he got it from the state code book. According to NRA, here is the gist of Connecticut’s gun laws:
      http://www.nraila.org/gun-laws/state-laws/connecticut.aspx

      Best wishes,
      Bob

      • http://yahoo.com Ron Pariseau

        Thanks Bob, I’m on my way to check it out!

  • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing WTS/JAY

    President Obama stated on Meet the Press in 2008: “It’s my intention, if elected, to disarm Americans to the level of acceptance to our Middle East brethren.”

    The news reports every day that Iran and other Middle East nations as well as Korea and Russia are arming themselves with nuclear weapons. In fact, China has been building up its armies and weapons for decades. So, if Americans were disarmed as the Obama and Clinton administration propose then the American people would be left defenseless against criminals or an invasion by their enemies. It appears that the most prominent names pushing hard to disarm Americans are President Obama, Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton, Senator Feinstein, Senator Shumer, and New York Mayor, Bloomberg, and now Homeland Security proposes laws to spy and track innocent Americans at Wal-Mart and gun stores, who purchase guns and ammunition, but didn’t RFID tag the U.S. guns sold to ruthless cartel members. There are hundreds of missing guns!

    Consequently, President Obama allegedly switched $10 million of U.S. Stimulus Money from the Recovery Fund for his program, “Fast and Furious and Gun-running.” In “Good Faith,” the American people believed President Obama, when he promised to use the stimulus money to “create jobs.” Instead, America’s tax dollars were turned into blood money. The fact that missing guns are in the hands of criminals sold to them by our federal government renders every man, woman, and child on both sides of the borders potential victims.

    How is it that the Obama czars, the U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder, and the Homeland Security administration has funding and procedures in place to track legal citizens on U.S. soil, who purchase guns, but they didn’t bother to monitor and track, videotape, photograph, audio tape, and follow basic surveillance procedures when they sold U.S. guns using straw buyers to traffic guns into Mexico that were sold to cartel members on foreign soil?

    We The People commend Representatives Darrel Issa and Charles Grassley. We The People believe this is one of the biggest scandals to hit our nation. More people have been assassinated in two years, 2009-2011 than in some wars or ethnic cleansing ordered by tyrannical leaders.

    Below is a list of events involving public servants in the media who have been actively engaged in gun control legislation; the Second Amendment; the gun trafficking into Mexico while tracking Americans buying legal guns after the lone assassin murdered and injured innocent people and Rep. Gifford in Arizona; but the federal government failed to track ruthless cartel members for two years.

    The following list below is a compilation of events reported in the news relating to gun control by U.S. federal government representatives commencing in 1992:

    1. 1992: Senator Hillary Clinton supported a federal ban on semi-automatic firearms.

    2. 2000: Senator Hillary Clinton favors “sensible gun control legislation, but limiting gun control lawsuits. She made gun licensing and registration a part of her 2000 senate campaign. She also made strict gun control laws at the federal level part of her 2008 presidential campaign.

    3. March 24, 2003: SB 1195 – Obama votes to ban many rifles and shotguns in the U.S.

    4. March 25, 2004: SB 2165 – Obama voted to prosecute people who use a gun for self-defense in their homes (which is law in Great Britain rendering the victims helpless against a criminal)

    5. July 29, 2005: S 397 – Obama voted to ban almost all rifle ammunition used for hunting and fishing

    6. September 2005: Obama opposes the right of citizens to carry hand guns – Chicago Tribune

    7. 2006: Mayor Bloomberg helps organize a coalition of mayors to perform background checks on customers who buy guns and clerks who sell guns; videotaping the sales; and keeping a record each time the BATF and Explosive links a gun buy at other guns and the purchase flagged. [Ironically, the BATF is required by HLS to link into legal sales of law-abiding Americans, but the Obama administration didn't tell Americans they were paying to have the BATF sell U.S. guns purchased on U.S. soil for gun trafficking without any tracking of illegal guns or the cartel criminals]

    8. 2008: New York Times: “Mayor and Wal-Mart Back Gun Sales Plan” – “A coalition of mayors….led by Michael R. Bloomberg of New York…said it had reached a 10 point agreement with Wal-Mart, the country’s largest seller of guns to track the sales of firearms more closely which include criminal background check of even store clerks.” [ironically, Obama and Bloomberg and Hillary want to spy on law abiding citizens and investigate U.S. citizens who purchase guns and ammunitin as well as other consumer items on U.S. soil, but they don't care that President Obama conceals all his background records].

    9. October 20, 2008: Meet the Press – Obama said, “It’s my intention if elected to DISARM Americans to the level of acceptance to our Middle East brethren.”

    10. March 13, 2009: Gun Ban List: HR 1022 – Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton and President Obama support U.N. Treaty to ban guns in the United States and by-pass the Second Amendment.

    11. L.A. Times 3/27/2009: “U.S. Secretary of State, Hillary Rodham Clinton ending, a 2 day visit to Mexico centered heavily on the drug war toured a state of the art police center and condemned drug violence meeting with university students….This situation is intolerable for honest law-abiding citizens of Mexico, my country, or of anywhere of ‘conscience live,’ she said.”

    Also, “Clinton acknowledged that the U.S. bears some blame for the crisis because of its insatiable appetite for illicit drugs and its role as a supplier of weapons that are SMUGGLED into Mexico to the cartels by ‘hit’ men.”

    “President Felipe Calderon’s government applauded on Obama’s administration plan….that will place more U.S. agents and other personnel along the border.”

    12. March 2009: Letter from senators Dick Durbin and Diane Feinstein…..” According to the ATF more than 90% of the guns seized after raids or shootings in Mexico have been traced right here to the U.S. of A. Feinstein added that it is unacceptable to have 90% of the guns that are picked up in Mexico to shoot judges, police officers, mayors, kidnap innocent people and do terrible things coming from theU.S. and I think we must put a stop to that….[the actual number of guns according to Fact Check and Fox was 17%]. They pushed for a massive new gun control and assault weapons ban.

    13. March 24, 2009: YouTube: “Obama Orders Launch of Fast & Furious”: Deputy A.G. Ogden announcing on national television that President Obama launched Fast and Furious and approved $10 million from the Stimulus Recovery Fund for the program naming Holder and Ogden to head it up.

    14. May 12, 2009, You Tube: “Did Obama Make You Laugh”- Obama said Hillary Clinton just returned from Mexico [regarding guns and drugs] and these days they’ve gotten very close and she kissed him.

    15. August 14, 2009: CNN, Anderson Cooper, You Tube, Part 1: “Mexico Says Guns Coming From U.S.”

    16. August 14, 2009, CNN Anderson Cooper, You Tube, Part 2: Mexico Says Guns Coming From U.S.” – and Mexican officials state the guns coming into Mexico from the U.S. are the key problem to the assassinations.

    17. June 28, 2010: The Washington Times reads “Dozens of U.S. Citizens may be targets of Assassination by Obama.”

    18. July 20, 2010: The Examiner by Howard Portney read: “Obama Assassination List: The Troubling Reality” – “In an interview last Thursday with Washington Times, John Brennan, the president’s most senior advisor on counterterrorism and Homeland Security reveals that the Obama administration maintains a list of American citizens who have been targeted for assassination.”

    Although, these are considered bad men and enemies or war criminals, since when does America assassinate unarmed people and dispose of their bodies; unarmed Americans who aren’t charged with a crime and visited the Pentagon as their guest; or attempted assassinations against foreign leaders who never threatened to attack America?

    19. May 21, 2010: The Daily Paul – “Hillary Clinton Supports the Small Arms Treaty with the Second Amendment in Jeopardy” – Obama and Hillary Rodham Clinton support U.N. Treaty and may attempt to by-pass congress and ban guns in U.S.

    20. June 18, 2010, NewsMax: ”Obama Administration to File Lawsuit Against Arizona’s Immigration Law” – and, “Hillary Clinton stated, ‘President Obama has spoken out against the law because he thinks that the federal government should be determining immigration policy.’ Clinton said in an interview. “And, the Justice Department, under his direction, will be bringing a lawsuit against the act.”

    21. August 24, 2010, ImpeachObamaCampaign.com – “Obama hauls Arizona before the U.N. Human Rights Council. The president’s first-ever report on U.S. Human Rights to the U.N. Human Rights Council contains a rich vein of offensive material….to bash Arizona’s immigration law and possibly transfer jurisdiction over from Arizona to the U.N.

    22. August 24, 2010, ImpeachObamaCampaign.com – On Obama’s command, Attorney General, Eric Holder, has sued the State of Arizona for passing a law that he criticized without reading and which merely uphold federal law….and threatens to give sanctuary cities a pass and threatens an additional lawsuit against Sheriff Arpaio for racial profiling.

    More here: http://rose4justice.com/2011/10/19/grievance-doj-tracking-law-abiding-americans-but-not-cartel-members-using-u-s-recovery-fund-hit-lists-missing-guns/

  • JOE

    Who are you kidding–guns were made to kill and conservatives lie just as much , if not more ,than liberals

    • Vicki

      JOE says:
      “Who are you kidding–guns were made to kill and conservatives lie just as much , if not more ,than liberals”

      Argument to false comparison and half the comparison is false. Not a good debate strategy.

      Guns were made to throw a rock. Rock made typically of one or 2 elements. What people do with the rock throwing tool is not in the control of the tool maker.

      • eddie47d

        Joe! Don’t tell the truth around Vickie for she will deny everything.

    • JC

      Guns are made to kill.

      Now there’s a “brilliant” statement. Thanks for pointing that out Joe.
      hey, while you’re having epiphanies…what are baseball bats for? And tire irons…what are those for? You’re really smart so I’ll bet you know. ;-)

      • Jeff

        Baseball bats are for playing a game called baseball. Like a lot of objects, they can be used by the unhinged to hurt people, but they are about 1% as deadly as guns. The argument “if you’re going to ban any gun as too deadly, you have to ban everything anyone could ever use to kill” is about as sensible as saying if it’s dangerous to drive more than 70 mph, it’s also dangerous to drive 10 mph. Try using that baseball bat to attack a police officer, even an unarmed one. Then tell us it’s as deadly as an AR-15.

      • macgyver1948

        JC… Yes, almost anything can be used to kill, even a credit card if you know how. Guns just make it easier to kill but there are other functions for guns too such as letting people know if they cause a problem they can be hurt by the gun holder, in other words as a deterrent to causing problems. Use of guns for obtaining food is good too but do we need a AR-15 or M-16 to do that? Again, guns just make it easier to kill and I think criminals and crazies continue to prove it.

      • JC

        You two pair of morons completely missed the point. YES we need AR-15′s and AK 47′s and M-16′ and any God Damned thing else that fires rounds…The Second Amendment isn’t about hunting dipsticks! It’s about protecting ourselves from an overbearing government. It’s about putting down tyranny. It’s about preparedness. It’s about self defense.

        Now why don’t you pair of bed wetters go live in England or someplace where you can “feel” safe and leave a free nation to people willing to keep it “free”.

        My God the stupidity is just astounding…

  • http://midcontent brand inspector

    Lberiajs are congential liars from day one, no matter what they try to say. They want guns for them selves and all hate capitalism and all the social/communist shulbs want special deals for the good supporters and, rven when it comes down to getting loans or paying their share of taxes, Wimpy Daschle, Turbo Geithner, Greasy Rangel, and the Clintons inside trading and drug transportation, of course look at the shumks in the WH house who never earned a honest dollar or paid for anything.

  • http://awkingsley.wordpress.com awkingsley

    Depriving mentally ill people of gun ownership is essential to societal welfare, but we must be able to determine who is and is not mentally ill first. Psychiatrists have no ability to make that determination. That is the major reason we have a problem. We must solve the diagnostic problem, in order to determine whether or not a prospective gun owner is mentally ill. Mandating that psychiatrists have expert diagnostic skills also prevents institutionalization of dissidents because a dissident can be proved sane by expert diagnostic techniques. T that end, I present the following:

    It is time we quit paying Psychiatrists huge salaries for inadequate patient maintenance with absolutely no cures for chronic mental illness. Chronic mental illness has a disease pathology that does not just reside in or originate in the head. The pathology of the disease affects the brain through chemical imbalances. Mental illness cannot be cured with counseling – not ever. This is the problem: Allopathic Medicine has no cure for mental or any other chronic disease. Ancient Natural and Alternative Medicine had cures for chronic disease; however, treatment of chronic disease starts with expert diagnosis and ability to evaluate treatments. Allopathic Physicians have no diagnostic techniques, relying exclusively on limited laboratory tests and only on patient statements for psychiatric diagnosis. Pretending to handle the problem of mental illness is not going to get the job done no matter how much more money is put into the mental health system. Under our current system, nothing will be done to change the outcome for those suffering from mental illness or destruction of their victims because Psychiatrists do not have the skills to solve the problem. When an Allopathic Physician is presented with a cure for chronic disease, one receives a blank stare. These physicians take their orders from the pharmaceutical companies. In order to solve our societal problem, the solution below needs to be implemented to end chronic disease not only for sufferers of mental disorders and their victimization of others, but for all chronic disorders.

    Natural and Alternative Medicine uses 3 diagnostic techniques very successfully: Those techniques are Iridology, Kinesiology (Saliva DNA Testing), and either Expert Oriental or Ayurvedic Pulse Diagnosis. Iridology is accomplished via a camera linked to a computer. Kinesiology (Saliva DNA Testing) can even be done from a distance by mailing DNA swabbed cotton balls to a physician experienced in the art. Expert Pulse Diagnosis can either be Oriental or Indian Ayurvedic. Expert Pulse Diagnosis takes the most time to learn, but is absolutely necessary for any physician who wants to diagnose chronic disease or assess a patient’s status and the efficacy of treatments. An expert pulse diagnostician can detect the progression of the disease and the area of the body from which the disease originates. Pregnancy can be diagnosed within 24 hours of conception by a physician expert in pulse diagnosis. A combination of these diagnostic techniques gives cross-verification to the physician. And, the first 2, Iridology and Kinesiology (Saliva DNA Testing), will aid the physician’s diagnosis, until he is expert in Oriental Pulse Diagnosis. (Distance pulse diagnosis can be accomplished via a lock of hair by keying in on [DNA], just as can be done in Kinesiology Saliva Testing with a swabbed cotton ball.) Allopathic Physicians face severe incompetence in every area besides the Operating Room and treatment of infection, demonstrating a Dark Age lack of knowledge. Many people believe this ineptitude is due to a stranglehold on Allopathic Medicine by the pharmaceutical industry, but this problem is also due to ingrained arrogance and incompetence on the part of Allopathic Psychiatrists. The State of Texas refusal to accept a mental health diagnosis from anyone other than an Allopathic Psychiatrist bears witness to entrenched ignorance on the part of state regulators regarding the competence of psychiatrists to diagnose.

    Federal Government involvement in Medicine and Medical R & D is also a major factor in the lack of cures for chronic disease. There is too much money available from the Federal Government, so the status quo is reinforced instead of competent cost-effective treatment developing to meet medical needs. Necessity is the mother of invention only when the Federal Government isn’t in the driver’s seat handing out the dough.

    A step by step solution to the problem: Allopathic Physicians first need to learn Natural and Alternative Medical diagnostic techniques. Second, all of the old ancient medical formulas and techniques need to be researched. It is impossible to research efficacy of treatments without expert diagnostic techniques for value assessment on patients. I use an almost completely unknown acupuncture protocol (self-administered much like a diabetic gives himself insulin injections) that treats many chronic diseases, as well as other little known medical knowledge for the majority of my health care needs. I use this acupuncture protocol now only for health maintenance. Friends are now asking me to share my medical knowledge because there is no treatment available for chronic disease. Chronic disease treatment is “Do it yourself healthcare, or do without because Allopathic Medicine provides absolutely “NO” cures.”

    The major solution to high health care costs and successful treatment of mental disorders is for states to mandate medical schools to teach expert diagnostic techniques to first year medical students. If students are lacking in proficiency in expert diagnostic techniques at the end of the first year of medical school, they need to be washed out of the program. We can eliminate the majority of the expense and failure in our medical system by insisting our states get tough on the way physicians are trained.
    Congress and State Legislatures can get Dr. Vassant Lad of Albuquerque, NM and, or other pulse diagnosticians to give demonstrations in Washington and the various state legislatures by diagnosing Congressmen while they are sitting in their seats in Congress. Dr. Lad or other expert pulse diagnosticians could rapidly perform a blind study for a state legislature on an acupuncture treatment protocol that I have in my possession that cures chronic mental disease as well as other chronic diseases. All that would be required is for Dr. Lad to take the pulse of patients before and after the acupuncture treatment, in order to prove that a profound change occurs when the treatment is administered. This acupuncture protocol can be acquired by contacting me: anncgm1@gmail.com

    House members can send a saliva sample to Healthy Bodies in Wills Point, TX to be diagnosed and receive treatment, in order to test the efficacy of this diagnostic method. Congress or a state legislature can invite an iridologist into the state legislature to diagnose everyone sitting in a House seat. Since these diagnostic methods can be demonstrated, our Allopathic Medical Establishment can make no excuses for current inept and expensive medical diagnosis and thoroughly inadequate palliative care.

    There is no excuse for mass murders. Another threat, under our current mental health system is the continuing risk of internment in a mental health facility for those who are not actually mentally ill, due to the lack of diagnostic skills. With the progression of our Police State, we could encounter the internment of dissidents, unless expert diagnostic techniques are implemented.

    Even with extensive training time for physicians and long times for treatment, our society could be well on its way to freedom from chronic disease within 15 years, if we insist on implementation of expert pulse diagnosis. Without expert pulse diagnosis, no Allopathic Physician will implement any of the Natural or Alternative treatments that surface because he has no ability to easily discern the value. That means we are stuck, until we change the system. Psychiatry has not progressed beyond its infancy, and it will only progress when the public insists on competent diagnostic techniques. We have the ability to make our state and federal governments give us better health care, so let’s do it.

    • Karolyn

      Verry interesting post. I have a friend who has 8 year old twin boys. One is wonderful, and the other has numerous problems including misbehavior, anger, no respect for authority,poor grades, etc. In my opinion, this child is doomed to a life of medication, which may or may not help his symptoms; but certainly won’t ‘cure” him. He has been diagnosed with that favorite catchall – bipolar disorder- and is on medications. I have suggested to her to look into nutrition and other methods to help her son. Unfortunately, she is like the majority, in that she will go along like a good little sheep with whatever almighty God Doctor says Unfortunately, this is the norm in this country; and it would appear that there really is not much hope for these people. Besides that, the school promoted him last year even though his grades were poor. She said she will fight them this year if they do that again.

    • Vicki

      awkingsley says:
      “Depriving mentally ill people of gun ownership is essential to societal welfare, but we must be able to determine who is and is not mentally ill first.”

      What about their ownership of knives, hammers, bats………

  • Karolyn
    • DaveH

      Aren’t you the first one who complains, Karolyn, if somebody casts the actions of an individual on an entire class of people?

      • Karolyn

        Merely an observation that seemed appropos, Dave. Plus, it just really shook me up, being an animal lover.

      • Karolyn

        Unfortunately, there will always be those who will pull out ar weapon in their anger or insanity like the veteran in Albuquerque who pulled a gun on somebody with an anti Obama bumper sticker. It’s just a sad, sad situation.

  • macgyver1948

    Hi Wayne Allyn Root… I almost never agree with you because I can’t see the sense in almost of all of what you say and I do not like your politics. In this case I agree that the Second Amendment should be kept healthy for us. I do not see the need for assault weapons for the average citizen but that is just my opinion.

    I do not agree that guns save lives in the same ways I do not believe guns kill. It is the mind controlling the gun that either kills of saves lives, not at all the guns. These insane killing events in schools or religious places or anywhere are acted out by crazies and they get their guns because they want to and because they are available. The more assault weapons are available the more available they are to the crazies as well as criminals. But if we eliminate all guns by law the only ones left with guns will be the cops and the criminals and the crazies. Oh, and people who feel they can attack you for whatever reason but if you have the audacity to defend your self they can, in states with those insane laws exist, take out their gun and kill you. These are people on the border line feeling they will not murder anyone unless the law gives them permission. They do not want to be punished for murder. Imagine that.

    Anyway Wayne, guns do not save people, the people with moral minds holding the gun might. Even those with a badge aren’t necessarily those with moral minds and it seems neither are some of those who claim to be of God. Because of that I do not want guns by anyone in schools.

    • JC

      macgyver1948 says:
      December 27, 2012 at 7:45 pm
      Hi Wayne Allyn Root… I almost never agree with you because I can’t see the sense in almost of all of what you say and I do not like your politics. In this case I agree that the Second Amendment should be kept healthy for us. I do not see the need for assault weapons for the average citizen but that is just my opinion.
      ___________________________________________________________________

      What “assault weapons”? An AR 15 is not an assault weapon, it’s a semi auto.
      It’s basically a souped up .22, and no .223 is not military ammo.
      A full auto is an assault weapon.

      And guns don’t save lives? They did in a theater in San Antonio on Dec 16:

      “The shooter was stopped. The Santikos Mayan Palace 14 Movie Theater also houses a small restaurant. The shooting began in the restaurant and as people went for cover, Garcia began to fire outside at an unmarked police car. He then moved to the theater where off duty Bexar County Sheriff Officer, Sgt. Lisa Castellano, who was working the theater, chased Garcia to the back of the theater and cornered him in the men’s room, shooting him several times and taking his gun.”

      Read more: http://freedomoutpost.com/2012/12/the-theater-shooting-the-main-stream-media-didnt-focus-on-why/#ixzz2GbBrObvi

      • http://www.facebook.com/holton.brown Holton F. Brown

        AAhhh… .223 isn’t military ammo ??
        well, you better tell the US military that ..’cause 5.56 is the metric equivelent .. and if you want to be really technical .. even the military M-16 and/or M4 is limited to three-round bursts .. three pops and you gotta pull the little trigger thingee agan ..and with the M4.. ifd you know what you’re doing .. there’s a little trick a marine taught me .. on just the right way to pull tyhe trigger .. or you can go on line a get a “kit” .. to attach to he trigger ……t and the military calls the AR-15 .. and the SKS .. and the AK-47 and 74 assault rifles .(the semi-auto “civilian versions) . which is loosely translated from the german “sturmgavaden” .. guy some of you may have heard of came up with that name for the MG-42 .., failed artist .. name of a hitler ..

        • macgyver1948

          Holton F Brown…. I missed something. Who said “.223 isn’t military ammo”. In the Air Force we had to qualify often in my unit with M-16s, AR-15′s big brother, and that meant knowing the species of the ammo. It is funny to hear someone is saying “.223 isn’t military ammo”. Thanks for the laugh. The rest of what you say is interesting.

        • BR549

          Holton wrote: “AAhhh… .223 isn’t military ammo ??
          well, you better tell the US military that ..’cause 5.56 is the metric equivelent .. and if you want to be really technical .. even the military M-16 and/or M4 is limited to three-round bursts.”

          You got your data mixed up. The .223 is a less powerful civilian version of the higher chamber pressured 5.56 NATO round. You can fire a 223 from a 5.56 platform, but technically, it isn’t wise to assume that any 223 platform can handle the 5.56 round.

          Secondly, the M-16 three burst Select-Fire was put in for two reasons. One it delivery three shots on target before the muzzle climbed too far off target, and it saved ammo in the field. Under Full-Auto, some people tend to spray bullets all over the place.

          And another thing, full auto has been banned, not because of the safety factor, but because the government has wanted to limit the potential of civilian resistance ever since the legislature decided that it had a better idea than our founding fathers.

      • macgyver1948

        JC… Ar-15 is a broken down M-16. I fired both often enough to know that. What is your point since I know how to use the AR-15 to shoot you 12 damn times in a second or so. Sounds assault-like to me so what is the need of it to hunt rabbit or deer?

        You said “And guns don’t save lives? They did in a theater in San Antonio on Dec 16”. How does this in any way contradict what I am saying when I say “guns do not save or kill, it all depends on the mind-set of the mind using the gun”?

        I also say being crazy or a criminal doesn’t mean they are stupid, although they could be. For example again crazies who take their easily gotten guns, assault or not, may not go to where there are armed cops or teachers. They may check it out first, go to where there are none with guns, and start killing. How many do you think they can massacre before the good guys with guns get there? Yes, they need to be stopped but let’s stop ignoring reality and try to look for real solutions in the mean time. Guns alone are not the answer. What causes those crazies and criminals to do their thing? We know money is the motivator for the criminals but what about the crazies?

        I also say doing away with the Second Amendment and outlawing guns will take guns away only from the law biding and those afraid to disable, not the criminals and the crazies, which brings us back to “let’s stop ignoring reality and try to look for real solutions in the mean time”. I wouldn’t care if you had a gun if you weren’t among the crazies or the criminal.

        You do some more reading and researching yourself and see what shrinks can offer in the long run and not only the gun lobby or politicians. These two groups are interested only how gun sales can help them.

        • Jeff

          I love when these gun nuts try to show off their arcane knowledge of guns. Reminds me of when I used to listen to that nut Gordon Liddy on the radio. Anytime he got an opportunity he was off to the races telling his audience everything he knew about guns. If a gun can shoot 70 rounds in a minute, that’s an assault rifle as far as I’m concerned. The fact that a fully automatic weapon can fire 500, or whatever, is interesting but not particularly relevant.

          • macgyver1948

            Jeff… When I was in the Air Force I did well enough on the range to be asked to help others shoot better. That too might be interesting, although of me it probably isn’t, but not relevant but I have come to believe any weapon which can fire as fast as you can pull the trigger is an assault and it is not needed to hunt deer and rabbit. But as long as they are easy enough for the nuts who shoot up theaters and churches and schools to get a hold of I suppose that is relevant. We have plenty of gun laws and they need full enforcement but first sign of nutdum and the guns should be pulled from that nut and not wait for the the school shootings. How do we do that if guns are as easy to buy as butter for so many? Criminals and the nuts are not going to go through that normal background checking and, what, with all that time delaying before maybe being approved when they can get it right away from a fellow criminal. The wackos too. The gun lobby would like us to believe the criminals and the nuts would go though the legal time consuming process so they can help sell more guns. It doesn’t matter to who. What else do they have to do? LOL If there were only good people who wanted guns.

            Liddy, yeah, he was one, :-)

          • Jeff

            Clearly, you are far more knowledgeable on the subject than I am. It just drives me crazy when these nuts want to say a gun that can fire off 70 or 100 rounds in no time without reloading is not an assault weapon because the military uses even more powerful weapons in Afghanistan. It’s akin to saying the “Little Boy” atomic bomb was not military grade because we now have H bombs that are so much more destructive.

            We have lots of laws about guns, but they’re pretty much meaningless as long as people can easily get hold of whatever they want. State laws are utterly useless since we have free access to all the states (the Continental 48 anyway). What good are Connecticut’s gun laws if somebody can bring in guns from Texas or Alabama they bought at a gun show?

            Even the assault weapons ban proposed by Senator Feinstein won’t go far enough since it will contain a “grandfather” clause. That was the problem with the bill passed in the 90s and there are lots more of these weapons to grandfather in now. The one thing we can do is support Ralphs Supermarkets. They donated the gift cards the City of Los Angeles recently used for its gun buy-back program.

          • BR549

            Jeff wrote: “It’s akin to saying the “Little Boy” atomic bomb was not military grade because we now have H bombs that are so much more destructive.”

            The point isn’t to have one group of self appointed do-gooders decide who can and who can’t have nuclear weapons; the point is that we should be asking why our leaders are still feeling the need to blow up other countries’ populations and then sit smugly at home with armed guards taking their children to school.

            At some point, we have to understand why we had the bomb in the first place and until we ask ourselves why we haven’t yet disarmed all nuclear, biological, and chemical weapons, arguments about gun control are just pissing in the wind.

          • Jeff

            So, because there are governments in the world with atomic and chemical weapons, we should arm every lunatic in the U.S. with an AR-15? The logic escapes me, but then, I’m just a human, not a BR549 Droid. I loved your Uncle R2D2, by the way.

          • BR549

            Jeff wrote: “So, because there are governments in the world with atomic and chemical weapons, we should arm every lunatic in the U.S. with an AR-15?”

            Jeffy, you know that phrase about ‘a small mind’? Try to make sure it doesn’t apply to you.

            I had hoped to discuss the issues around distrust, and both individual and foreign boundary violations and how they manifest within the collective conscience, but you’ve made it clear that we have to go back to kindergarten to discuss this topic.

          • Jeff

            I’m sorry I just don’t follow your chain of reason from Rockefeller to Black Helicopters to gun control. Every time someone/anyone disagrees with you about anything, you say they’re not seeing the big picture involving the International Bankers. Sounds a little JBS to me. I’ll wait for your Manifesto to be published

          • macgyver1948

            Jeff… I understand you views on guns. I do not own any and I do not see any in my future. They just make it way to easy to kill and now with some states giving their people the right to murder people with them, The “if I attack you unprovoked and you have the audacity to defend yourself against my attack I now have the legal right to take out my gun and kill you” thing I do not get. These laws are for people who would not ordinarily kill because they do not want to be punished but now they are legal about it so it is ok. Plus it gives the criminals and the crazies yet another thing to laugh at us about. And the fact, as you say too, it is way to easy for people to get guns. I want the existing laws to be enforced but those aren’t effective in their after-the-fact ability to punish because they generally are not deterrents to using the gun for many. Many shootings are anger provoked or pro killings or done by the crazies. Once you have been shot to death by some crazy using a gun you wont care so the law is ineffective for you as protection.

            I just do not see total control effective either. With only the moral and law biding people turning them in where would that leave us? My dad use to say “the way to fix society is to start with the next generation from birth with moral teachings by parents”. There is to little of that now and for a long time leading up to now. That is like forgetting the current generations but it is a start. I just do not know how to go about that. If we keep people down and unemployed and lower-than-needed paid we will lose it in the long run even with the next generation concept. If the gap between the mega-wealthy and the rest of us continues to widen, as the middle is made to shrink out of existence, it ill not matter. Guns will be had by so many as they can get them. I am not pro gun for me but how can we tell who will not use one or more just because it suites them and it is so easy to get them?

            Oh, “grandfather” clauses can be good or bad depending. I agree with you in the case of the assault weapons ban proposed by Senator Feinstein won’t go far enough . Too many nutz will fall through the cracks and we will continue to have mass shooting by nutz as they feel the need. I guess the “grandfather” part was just a compromise so some of what Feinstein got some of what was wanted and needed. I generally hate political compromise because it is generally the people who lose out on it and not the law maker. We will see that if Obama gives in on this fiscal cliff thing the GOP wants.

            I remember while working at Walmart and I went across the street from the home office to their flag ship Supercenter and going through their sporting goods department. The gun rack with semi-autos we jumping right out at you. Buy your guns along with your milk and your salami. I could have gotten a gun anytime with my discount but it felt wrong for me for some reason. I know of someone in Jersey who kept a gun and when his house was broken into his kids were held up as a shields and he felt the need to give over his gun the the nice bad guys. How secure was that family? Also, we could say on the other side, keeping a gun in the house unleaded is like having the gun no more protective that an ash trey. Can we say, “please Mr Bad Guy, could you wait a few minutes for me to load my gun and we can start over”. I have things here I can throw at them that are so much more effective than an empty gun and I will use them if someone breaks in here.

            It is confusing to say how other people will act with a gun in their hands, we just do not know for sure. Even Neighborhood Watch people, as in Florida a while back, could misuse his gun in a situation he starts and we wont know for sure what happened without reliable and honorable witnesses. It was to late for that kid in the hoodie but he could have been murdered just for defending himself from being grabbed for all we know. Having a gun is very tempting to use in a non gun situation for many and in some states the law can protect border line murderers. We need the right kind of laws and those we need to enforce, with out compromising “grandfather” clauses.

            Gun by-back programs do not work either. NYC had one going a while ago and many honest law abiding people turned in their guns. I bet you can count the number of criminals and crazies who were turning in their guns there on a finger-less hand. And did NYC become gun crime-less after that? I do not know what the answer is because there are to many in opposition of common sense on both sides.

          • BR549

            macgyver wrote: “We need the right kind of laws and those we need to enforce.”

            Mac, the tenor of your argument displays the conundrum that many people also have. NOTHING would make me happier than to be able to live in a world where all our efforts could be focused on the advancement of the human spirit toward seeking an understanding of the divine. Some people would rightly argue that the world is what we make it, and I don’t take issue with that, but while you and I (and I’m sure, Jeff) would be willing to work toward that end, there still exists those social misfits at the top of their self established “food chain” that only see themselves as worthy of life extension technologies and that the common people are to be considered like cattle.

            And who is right behind them? All the underlings in the Congress who have been willing to go along to get along; they sell their souls every day of the week. Military men and law enforcement, who, like politicians, take that oath of service and then summarily abandon it while they take out their frustrations on a weaker population; this is the current reality.

            You presented some very real and pertinent issues and I commend you for doing so, so carefully. Had the UN, for example, decided to set the example by disarming itself and work toward disarming NATO, perhaps that might be a start. If we spent 1/10th of our defense budget instead on efforts like the Peace Corps and encouraged young men and women to serve there instead of in the “armed” services, that might be a start.

            The problem is those sociopathic parasites at the top, who have continually funded both sides of all the recent wars during the last two centuries. If you can locate the sociopathy around that problem, I’d like to know. Part of the problem might stem from the Abrahamic religions, another from the ferocity of the Vikings; I don’t know, but nothing is going to change until they change. Until that time, until the rest of the population either caves in and offers themselves up for sacrifice to these people, or they decide they’ve finally had enough of being ruled by a group of managerially inept social population planners, then perhaps we might have something to hope for.

            I used to post political cartoons on the wall at my business, so people often felt free to voice their opinions. About six through eight years ago, I had several elderly Germans come into my business on separate occasions (as unrelated tourists). THEY saw what Bush was doing to this country. They all asked, “Don’t you see what is happening here. This is exactly what we saw in the 1930s.”

            And sad to say, Obama is playing the next software version of Bush 3.0. The Bush people still deny he was ever a part of this, and the Obama people are still believing in Hope and Change and have yet to come to grips with the fact that this has all been about globalism. If globalism was so good for everyone, why would they still need to expand the military industrial complex and supply our National Guard armories with ASDs and LRADs?

            Aside form that, I agree with you.

          • Jeff

            “The problem is those sociopathic parasites at the top, who have continually funded both sides of all the recent wars during the last two centuries. ”

            Could you identify them and do you have actual evidence? And which wars? Any of the wars we’ve fought since WWII? I’d be surprised if there were bankers backing both sides in the Viet Nam War, or Korea.

          • BR549

            Jeff wrote: “Could you identify them and do you have actual evidence? And which wars? Any of the wars we’ve fought since WWII? I’d be surprised if there were bankers backing both sides in the Viet Nam War, or Korea.”

            You claim to be an intelligent guy and then have doubts about bankers funding wars? Jeez, Jeff, c’mon. Get with the program, here. Even the freakin’ History Channel has been broadcasting information in that regard.

            I think your just here pulling people’s chains. Maybe it’s a trait of the liberals to expect other people to do all their research for them.

            These sites gives some of the relevant history; the rest you’ll have to dig for. I have better things to do with my time.
            http://www.thehiddenevil.com/communists.asp
            http://consortiumnews.com/2012/03/04/profiting-off-nixons-vietnam-treason/

          • macgyver1948

            BR549… Without going into all of your comment, and I do agree with your sentiments, you say “And who is right behind them?” which I would like to comment on. I will side step a little bit but it gets to the point in all areas of big business and the Government entities who are controlled by them so be patient.

            There are many alternative drugs, many natural ones, and treatments which do very well against cancer, for example, and with fewer if no side effects. These are frowned on by the FDA because they are there to help protect the interests of Big Pharm, not really us. One way we can tell this is by watching how many drugs are entered into their coveted “Approval” List when they shouldn’t have been and that becomes obvious when they are removed in just a couple of years for dangerous reasons. Just listening to the disclaimers in TV commercials would make a concerned person think. Another way we can tell this is to ask “why is Tobacco still legal?” but that is a issue for another time because there is way too much to discuss when it comes to controlling Government and the whys.

            The point is where are the trials and tests for safety before they are approved if they are being removed so fast? But instead the FDA will not look into alternative drugs which have great promise because many of those drugs and treatments cannot be patented and Big Pharm does not want the competition so they pressure the FDA to do “something”. This is a powerful and dangerous example of how many Government officials, elected and appointed, are being controlled by big business.

            Next, you speak of the UN. As pressures build up in the world we need a UN but some of what they do concerns me. There is too much to go into here but I am concerned as they take more control over nations.

            Now I too see similarities in what was going on in the Hitler years in Germany and here since little bush came into power. Obama is treading into similar waters but we will see. I was very concerned when Obama signed off on letting the military do their arrest citizens thing without warrants and potential endless holdings. Due Process must prevail but I still voted for him because Romney scared me more for many reasons, well, the people who so deeply controlled him do. Even Norquist said “we are not worried about Romney, he will do as he is told”. That was when Mitt was deep into his campaign. I bet Norquist says that about so many in Congress on the Right.

            I think we need to concern ourselves with what politicians do, not just say because they are so good at BS, and the issues they represent rather than the party they are part of. That gets easier all the time if we pay attention but it seems there is a major party who is easier to spot as not bing in there for the little guy than the other but we have to watch them all.

            You ask “If globalism was so good for everyone, why would they still need to expand the military industrial complex and supply our National Guard armories with ASDs and LRADs?”. That is such a great point and question. If our Constitution was adapted for the entire world it would be nice but as it stands it would not please the power brokers, those wanting to control that government, so the Constitution would have to be done away with if there is a One World Government. I am against it. But your point and question is one to consider when we speak with those who feel Obama wants to go that way of OWG. He wants a more efficient Military, not one ladened with waste, so he wants to cut the parts of their budgets which aren’t working. Sounds good to me as our Military would be more powerful with advancements and less wastes. Just so he doesn’t use them against us.

          • BR549

            Macgyver wrote: “As pressures build up in the world we need a UN but some of what they do concerns me.”

            And, ….. “He [Obama] wants a more efficient Military, not one ladened with waste, so he wants to cut the parts of their budgets which aren’t working. Sounds good to me as our Military would be more powerful with advancements and less wastes.”

            The problem, Mac, is that the UN had been initiated as an administrative arm of the globalist and banking interests, with the IMF trailing as the UN’s dysfunctional younger brother. The early ’50s was a good period for the globalists; convincing the world’s governments that they needed to have a forum [the UN] for their differences was a seemingly noble purpose, but controlling which UN supporting states would be allowed to exist versus those that would be eliminated; i.e., those that refused to comply; that was a bit insidious. Also in that period, IG Farben Nazi chemical wizard, Fritz ter Meer, gets out of prison early on good behavior after having admitted to killing 25,000 Jews. And the Bilderberg Group begins its first formal meetings at the Bilderberg Hotel in Oesterbeek Netherlands. All in the span of two years.

          • http://www.facebook.com/holton.brown Holton F. Brown

            BR .. you’re slipping .. you forgot Werner von Braun…who did no jail time at all …

          • macgyver1948

            Holton F. Brown … We are always slipping when we miss evil shumcks like Werner von Braun and it doesn’t matter what the religion or race or nationality. Many religions have their evil groups and we have to watch, here in America too.

          • BR549

            Holton wrote: “BR .. you’re slipping .. you forgot Werner von Braun…who did no jail time at all …”

            No, not at all. Von Braun was brought on board in Operation Paper Clip with what was claimed to have been 2,000 other German scientists. That figure, others are claiming, was more like 20,000.

            One of these characters was Erich Traub, whose specialty was using mosquitos and ticks as vectors to distribute diseases. Where did the government set his lab up? Off the east end of Montauk NY, right near Block Island, RI. Across Long Island Sound, about eight miles maybe, is Lyme Connecticut. And what has showed up during Traub’s tunure there? Eastern Equine Encephilitis, Lyme’s Disease, and Babesiosis.

            All of these guys that were brought over had some questionable “skill” that kept them alive; one that our black ops people could utilize. Fritz ter Meer just happened to have had a lot of rich and powerful friends that wanted him out of prison ……. just in time for the first Bilderberg meeting.

          • macgyver1948

            BR549… I suppose The UN would decide which nations survive and which do not the same ways Walmart decides which stores will be closed. Who brings in the most money and whose geography offers the most advantages, for the UN or the Corporation, will survive. People in either case do not matter unless they have enough money and clout.

            As for IG Farben Nazi chemical wizard, Fritz ter Meer. He and his kind should get a life time in the worst prisons and in general population for each person they are responsible for killing, directly or indirectly (as in giving the orders). I remember that case. It was a bad decision to let him out, it sets a bad precedence.

            The UN (maybe Uberall Nations if we aren’t careful) is a business and they have their agendas. As it is now they have too much power and they affect too many for the support of their agendas, or maybe a higher authority’s agendas. As I said before they are needed but only as an advisory and perhaps monitoring and impartial negotiating body. As a New York City boy I like their building.

          • http://www.facebook.com/holton.brown Holton F. Brown

            actually .. if you run 500 runs down the barrel .. sustained .. you’re looking at damage .. even on a big automatic weapon .. like the M2 BMG, or Ma Deuce .. you run 750 rounds and the barrel is due for change …

          • BR549

            Jeff, in 2009, Jerry Miculek broke a world record for firing a single action S&W 12 rounds in under 3 seconds. That’s equivalent to about 240 rounds per minute with a pistol that has nothing automatic or semi-automatic about it.

            And a Russian girl has shot arrows at a rate of 40 per minute. Is that the next thing to be banned? As JC so aptly put it, under your plan, when do we ban kitchen knives, the family clothesline, or even the gasoline to run the lawn mower? God help us from ourselves.

            For all it’s worth, someone could do more damage with a jug of gasoline and styrofoam cups than Lanza did during that shooting, but it doesn’t present itself as having the sheer terror because the media hasn’t wrapped itself around it. And that all these people have been after in the first place; the sheer terror ……. because many of them are so angry and they no longer can justify their targets.

            But rather than address that factor, the anger, the drugs they are all on, and the extent of mental illness, treasonous douchebags like Feinstein go for the political mileage to make points with the unconscious sheep who have little sense of their own history.

      • http://www.facebook.com/holton.brown Holton F. Brown

        souped up .22 ???… that’s like saying a ferrari F50 is a souped up Fiat 500 …a .223 (same as 5.56 mm) round is longer than an M1A1 carbine .30-cal. round… it runs down the barrel to exit the muzzle at 3240 feet per second ..that’s over 2200 mph … it will slam through I and II soft body armor and even III level under 25 feet…
        and if it’s just a “souped up” .22-cal LR .. how come so many military outfits .. like the marines .. army .. air force navy .. coast guard have it as their standard weapon ..?? and that’s not even considering that many other nations have the same round .. even the russians adapted the round for the AK-74 and AK-01.

        • macgyver1948

          Holton F Brown…. Are you saying I am saying M-16/Ar-15 ammo is the same as .22? It looks like you are but I know better since I shot many M-16/Ar-15s as well as .22 rifles. You used the analogy of “ferrari F50 is a souped up Fiat 500”. I could use a different analogy. If I had a grisly bear bearing down on me using what could fit a .22 in it against that bear is like throwing a paper clip at him. I’d feel much safer with a AR-15. I still do not see the need of these assault weapons for hunting rabbit or deer.

      • Jeff

        First, the shooter in San Antonio was not armed with a military-style, high-capacity weapon. Second, there was warning of the shooting as it started next door in a retaurant. Third, and most importantly, the person who stopped the shooter was a police officer, not a civilian gun nut.

        • macgyver1948

          Jeff… :-)… Thanks…

  • MLR

    When are you people goimg to admit it? The 2009 budget, the year it skyrocketed, was put in place by Bush. Fiscal year 2009 began in October 2008. I am not saying Obama has no blame, but over 70% of the national debt was Bush’s doing.

    • macgyver1948

      MLR… I believe you are hitting on a point that is being ignored. The Right will not admit the source of the problems when that source is their side. It was bush jr who caused the budget problems because they did begin with the little bush but it is easier to blame Obama because he is here and now, well since he was first elected, rather than their side. Obama is not perfect but he is working more for us then the TPGOP even wants to. Maybe that is why, of all those who voted, more people voted for his reelection than didn’t and those who did know where many of the problems come from.

      • Vicki

        As some other liberal pointed out (possibly in this very thread), budgets are created in the HOUSE and then agreed to by the Senate and House. Both of which were in democrat hands since early 2007.

        So where again is the cause of the spending problem?

        • MLR

          The President recomends the budget, then it is voted on by the house and senate, almost all Republicans agreed to it with help from enough dems to pass it. I say both sides are to blame for the mess, but the Republicans will admit ti nothing

          • macgyver1948

            MLR… You have that right, the TPGOP will never admit. Both sides are at fault for the condition we are in, to their respective degrees, but we also have to blame ourselves for how we vote. The right guy just won the presidency again because he is more so working for us than that puppet he ran against. But Congress does engineer how the country will work or not. Will Congress prevent us from falling of this so-called cliff or will they give in and cater to what so much more is needed by the poor and unfortunate wealthy as one side of the aisle is doing? It is up to them how we fall of that cliff or not.

        • MLR

          Vicki
          The cause of the spending problem is perhaps for the first time in this countries history, a war, make it two wars were being fought without a tax increase to pay for them. Not only no tax increase but a reduction of taxes for Business and the wealthy,” the very ones most likely to profit from those wars” you may as well make it three wars with the open ended war on terror. Plus that stupid so called Patriot Act. that basicaly started taking away our rights as US citizens. Look what Obama added to that. You think the next President, no matter who it is will roll it back? most likely will add to it. If the people of this country don’t wake up soon and put these politicians and business leaders in there place we are all doomed

        • macgyver1948

          Vickie… Actually the causes of the spending problems comes from how much our so-called representative politicians allow themselves to be owned and controlled by big money, which ever side of the aisle they are on. Guess which side allows themselves to be more controlled and owned. But, again, much of our expenses came from the bush wars and his gifts to his wealthy buddies as well as his budgets and we have to pay all that back even at the expense of needed programs and us. All this just so the very wealthy do not have to pay higher taxes. Between us and the very wealthy who can afford that more?

      • mamba

        shut the h*ll up macgyver etal What year is it anyway, or maybe your name says it all…1948 – STUCK IN THE PAST!

        • macgyver1948

          mamba… What’s the matter mamba, can’t take the truth or is it that you can’t take differing views? If it is the former then you have that problem. If it is the ladder then there is less Americanism in you than you want known. “shut the h*ll up macgyver”, huh. Denying me my First Amendment rights are you? On this site differing views and opposing views are welcome and encouraged, just ask Bob Livingston.

          The past is a problem for you I see. I guess you are one of those who refuses to learn from the past so you wont be able to see the problems in the present. That is a pity. It is a cause and effect thing but that might confuse you. That’s to bad for your emotional and educational development. Aren’t you glad you started this?

          • mamba

            Thank you for your additional diatribe of nothing. That’s right Macgyver, and it is my right to tell you to “shut it”. There is nothing left to say regarding the complete dribble of the left droning on and on and on endlessly that Bush is still to blame even now that OBAMA is in his 2nd term! I could list facts, I could copy links, I could refute your continued regurgitation of lies from the MMS but you would still remain brain dead. So at this point, yes, asking you to “shut it” is all that I have energy for at this point. LOL

          • macgyver1948

            mamba… Yes, we could both site what massive lies we each see coming from each other’s side but what would be the point, it wouldn’t change our beliefs? But if you want to deny me my First Amendment rights, and the fact that this site is for all views and slantings, then you continue to show there is no Liberty in you unless the other guys views are the same as yours. Not at all American about you. But you wont be able to shut me up, only I can do that. And if you side with the rantings of those such as Hitler in your attempt to silence my words, because you cannot take being disagreed with, you are always showing your UN-Americanism. Good for you and your uncontrollable temper tantrums.

            Oh, if “there really is nothing left to say regarding the complete dribble of the left”, as you say, hopefully I wont we hearing you denying my rights to speak again even without insult and put downs, or your programmed rantings, but I won’t be holding my air supply for that. But Free Speech is way to important to let the inane ravings of those like you to silence us.

            “If the freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter.” ~President George Washington

            See mamba, I wont be “dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter” for your kind, I prefer to be American even if I have to accept your ravings. Enjoy your temper tantrums.

          • mamba

            ah hahahahaha macgyver, you are hilarious and take yourself way too seriously. Whatever. I’ve been on this site long enough to know when a dialogue is a waste of time and your are it – right now. Thanks for the entertainment though btw: you assume WAY too much! hahahhahahahahahahha

          • macgyver1948

            mamba… I see we can be a source of amusement for each other. Well, there is no way you can be convincing since your rants are based on insults and put downs and not intelligence or any attempt to have adult exchange so let’s laugh together. You are so Right. LOL…

      • deerinwater

        macgyver1948; mamba has attack your right to speak and in defend has got us off topic. One cheap shot found deserving another.

        Vicki, ” says the House and Senate has been controlled since 2007 by Democrats and responsible for the spending. She does have a valid point. While she is only looking at a ‘snap shot’ in time as previous GOP lead House had been replaces for their decisions that required all this spending as the US Congress of 2006 found it’s self committed to boots on the ground and no arrangement ever made to pay for it. This explains to us why the GOP had been sent to the sidelines in 2006 midterms and no longer enjoying a majority status for their “Burdening” as even today on 2012 an attempting is still being made to clean up their awful mess.

        http://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/serials/files/cato-handbook-policymakers/2009/9/hb111-52.pdf

        It all there for anyone to read and understand however you see fit.

        • macgyver1948

          Deerinwater… Yes, he has attacked my right to speak but that happens often in these venues when small minded people cannot take their beliefs and values being disagreed with, even when there was no direct contact to begin with. Maybe when he grows up he might allow for others rights as he would want for his. That is assuming he grows to understand what real Liberty is. Can you imagine if he had a gun in his hand? All the same I should tone it down a bit too but I do not get nasty when people disagree with me, just when they get insulting and childish.

  • http://yahoo sylvia

    totally support 2nd amendment and all included in our Constitution. israel and Switzerland (whose citizens are well-armed) have less murder rate than U.S. do not understand what our current government officials fear. they should also give up totally their guns. quote by Thomas Jefferson: “The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.”
    the biggest problem is Educating the Masses. we have become the Dumbest,senseless nation with only a “ME” concern. America, the Republic of the Didus Ineptus. also, govt needs to STOP CATERING to misfits in this country who are determined to get their way( shariah laws–this group does not even belong here–Amer women would not want to be treated according to them),atheists– they have lived that way without interference–why should they now find Amer religion offensive –Catering has to stop all nonsense. the list goes on. Conclusion—guess 45million parasites want to become like the other 3rd world countries. thank you

    • http://www.facebook.com/holton.brown Holton F. Brown

      yeah .. both israel and switzerlnd are well armed .. but lower murder rate .. are you including drive by shootings and car bombs by palestinians ??
      as for switzerland .. they gotz gunbs but they ain’t gotz ammo!!

  • Bimbam

    I looked at the Diane Fienstein article about why we should ban weapons and she list over a hundred so called “assault” rifles and all the crime committed by them and all it tells me IS THAT CRIMINALS DON’T OBEY ANY GUN LAWS!!!

    Phhhtttttttttt…. what a stupid lady!

    • Don

      I despise feinstien and pelosi and bunches of the people who were originally intended servants of the people who have become like royalty . They are anti gun with the stupid mental attitudes that guns kill people by them selves. There was a hunting and trapping expo at Bluestem Farm and Ranch Supply , a hardware store in Emporia , ks. its a very popular hardware store that outdoes tractor supply by a mile. i picked up a copy of a commentary from the Topeka Capital Journal. I’m going to leave out the persons name who wrote it. it goes: I am the gun, you know me well. I am in the news, I make headlines, but i have no heart, no brain, no feelings. I am a tool; a mechanical device.For me to function, i must be loaded and activated by a human being…….. when a known killer is paroled after serving a paltry prison term and illegally buys me or steals me to rob or kill with, you blame me……..when your youngster watches the violence on television and sees how powerful i can make him, you blame me…………..When your teenager plays with his video games to learn how to shoot and kill his adversaries, you blame me. when parents don’t have influence enough to care enough to know their child is involved with drugs, gangs, and me- you blame me. When a student takes me from a bedstand or from my unlocked storage place to take me to school for show and tell, you blame me…………………….If you continue to blame me enough for all of these and other tradgedies that you, not I have control of, then the Bill Clinton’s, Sarah Brady’s, Janet Renos and the anti-gun congress will ban me from the homes of honest law abiding citizens. the criminals will rejoice for then they will only have my protection………….but i will rise from the battlefields of Gettysburg, from the forests of Germany, and the sands of Pearl Harbor and Iwo Jima to protect your freedoms one mor time. The Topeka Capital Journal 6/9/99

      • Bimbam

        Very good!

        I have always said you can leave a gun anywhere except near humans and monkey types and it will stay that way forever!!!!

  • J.W. Howard

    Mr. Root the problem in this country today is a moral one. To me gun control is bullet placement in a target, so thats not a problem. The United States today is under judgment by God, 9-11-01 and Obama are a clear sign of this. We the people have lost our way. Now if you think these are unrelated then your wrong. Our Constitution was written with God given rights and responsibilities as the main thought behind them. We the people have forgotten we have RESPONSIBILITIES to God and man, both to defend our rights and to look after each other. All this being said “Arms are tools to save life” but this is only part of the issue. Our nation is being stolen from us, gun control is only a part of it. To enslave a people, the people must be disarmed first.Free speech must be demonized. The concept of responsibilities must be eliminated. Immorality must take root in the nation by using the seven deadly sins. Above all else God must be done away with, so the people are Godless.

    For those of you who think I’m referring to church when I use the name of God I’m not. I personally think “Church” is part of the problem. (use the word greed).

    You can trace our freedoms being stolen back to the early 1800′s with the formations of the first corporations. Some text of my reading;.(Written by someone else on the web) all excerpts will be in (” “) format; I will include here.

    (“American legislators explicitly rejected this corporate shield. The penalty for abuse or misuse of the charter was not a plea bargain and a fine, but dissolution of the corporation”)
    .
    (“In 1819 the U.S. Supreme Court tried to strip states of this sovereign right by overruling a lower court’s decision that allowed New Hampshire to revoke a charter granted to Dartmouth College by King George III. The Court claimed that since the charter contained no revocation clause, it could not be withdrawn. The Supreme Court’s attack on state sovereignty outraged citizens. Laws were written or re-written and new state constitutional amendments passed to circumvent the (Dartmouth College v Woodward) ruling. Over several decades starting in 1844, nineteen states amended their constitutions to make corporate charters subject to alteration or revocation by their legislatures. As late as 1855 it seemed that the Supreme Court had gotten the people’s message when in Dodge v. Woolsey it reaffirmed state’s powers over “artificial bodies.”)

    (“Contests over charter were battles to control labor, resources, community rights, and political sovereignty. More and more frequently, corporations were abusing their charters to become conglomerates and trusts. They converted the nation’s resources and treasures into private fortunes, creating factory systems and company towns. Political power began flowing to absentee owners, rather than community-rooted enterprises”.)

    (“The industrial age forced a nation of farmers to become wage earners, and they became fearful of unemployment–a new fear that corporations quickly learned to exploit. Company towns arose. and blacklists of labor organizers and workers who spoke up for their rights became common. When workers began to organize, industrialists and bankers hired private armies to keep them in line. They bought newspapers to paint businessmen as heroes and shape public opinion. Corporations bought state legislators, then announced legislators were corrupt and said that they used too much of the publics resources to scrutinize every charter application and corporate operation”).

    (“Government spending during the Civil War brought these corporations fantastic wealth. Corporate executives paid “borers” to infest Congress and state capitals, bribing elected and appointed officials alike. They pried loose an avalanche of government financial largess. During this time, legislators were persuaded to give corporations limited liability, decreased citizen authority over them, and extended durations of charters”).

    (“Attempts were made to keep strong charter laws in place, but with the courts applying legal doctrines that made protection of corporations and corporate property the center of constitutional law, citizen sovereignty was undermined. As corporations grew stronger, government and the courts became easier prey. They freely reinterpreted the U.S. Constitution and transformed common law doctrines”)
    .
    (“One of the most severe blows to citizen authority arose out of the 1886 Supreme Court case of Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad. Though the court did not make a ruling on the question of “corporate personhood,” thanks to misleading notes of a clerk, the decision subsequently was used as precedent to hold that a corporation was a “natural person.” This story was detailed in “The Theft of Human Rights,” a chapter in Thom Hartmann’s recommended book Unequal Protection.
    From that point on, the 14th Amendment, enacted to protect rights of freed slaves, was used routinely to grant corporations constitutional “personhood.” Justices have since struck down hundreds of local, state and federal laws enacted to protect people from corporate harm based on this illegitimate premise. Armed with these “rights, corporations increased control over resources, jobs, commerce, politicians, even judges and the law”)
    .
    1913 was the bank consolidation and enslavement of our nation with the Federal Reserve act

    (“A United States Congressional committee concluded in 1941, “The principal instrument of the concentration of economic power and wealth has been the corporate charter with unlimited power….”)

    All this hopefully will wake people up to the fact “It’s not just about Gun Control”. It’s about the enslavement of our people.

    John W Howard

    • http://studentbiviano4.wordpress.com studentbiviano4

      well said my friend, please read this blog on gun control and mental health

  • braxos

    Wayne Allyn Root says don’t believe the liberals or the media, guns save lives. I bet when asked what Wayne Allyn Root did during the wars in his lifetime, if guns save lives, why didn’t he volunteer to fight in those wars. Cowards always brag about guns, when they don’t have to use them to serve their country.

    • Financially Insecure John

      yup,
      I would bet Wane like George “W” Bush is a Wus.

      • USMCvet

        +1

    • JC

      braxos…is that the best your tiny little brain could come up with?
      let’s see…unless someone has served in the military they have no right to want to defend America… and you get to decide who that is?
      Wow! now that’s completely freaking insane!
      Americans…ALL Americans have EVERY right to keep and bear arms to defend America.
      Not just the boys in the big green gun club.

      And you might want to consider Wayne’s age…just which war was he supposed to have fought in?

      • mamba

        Thank goodness for people like JC, Jeff H and Dave H who have not only common sense but FACTS and actually right something of substance on these threads! Something liberals have an extremely hard time with.

      • deerinwater

        Yea, you have strong appetite for unfiltered BS.

      • JC

        And more unqualified drivel from yet another brainless prog.
        Good job deerinwater…you help prove that progs are nothing more than bags of hot air with nothing relevant to say. “howling monkeys”. ;-)

  • Scott Nichols

    I would like to make the comment that the over all problem is ecconomics. Big busness want us to work 7 days a week and get paid for 2. In order for a family to servive it take two incomes. This means we have kids having more access to violent games and guns because they are unsuporvised. They also don’t learn right from wrong either because the parents are too spent at the end of the week to spend time with the kids. In truth we could turn back the hands of time to the 1900′s and the sweat shops and the gangs of kids that ran the streets. This also means if there is a mental problem in a child it is not seen until its too late. We also have the Government to thank for the way we treat mental illness because there really no hospitals for them. Its not the guns but the people who want take them away because they are the ones who allow this to happen to our country. If we look at most of these shooting there has been signs of mental problems pirior to the incident.
    Here is something else to consider. We cannot have the first admendment without the 2 admendment to protect it.

  • Bob Bo

    Of course guns don’t kill people. People with guns kill people.

    How many of us would give up our child to protect our right to keep a Bushmaster for hunting? And defending yourself against the government is a ludicrous argument. You just aren’t going to outgun the military if they are coming for you.

    • Bob666

      Well said Bob Bo.

  • Financially Insecure John

    Vicki,
    let me guess, 100 plus pounds over weight, more than one cat, never married and you have not had a date in ten years that did not require a couple of D-cells and all you watch is FOX news.

    • http://www.facebook.com/holton.brown Holton F. Brown

      Funny !! but seriously .. New York City has one of thge most restrictive guin klaws (Sulliuvan act) in the country .. andf for some strange reason .. so far in 2012v .. their homicides reported as being the lowest in 50 years .. and as for comparing Utah and California murder rates .. California has heavy gang activity .. as for Utah .. people kill peoplev.. mormasn don’t kill people …l’

    • Paul Wells

      May you stay Financially Insecure all of your days, John, for contributing nothing but character assassination, generalizations, and aspersions on someone you don’t know. Way to go libtard, you passed the test, because as we all know, liberalism is a “progressive” disease, of which there is little hope for a cure. Moron!

      • Financially Insecure John

        Well Paul,
        I guess that you are male equal to Vicki-way too much FOX news. As far as the discussion on this site goes-I would bet that none of you has the guts to back up what you type.

        A very sad representation on the repressed human race and just so you know, I’m a republican with a life.

      • Paul Wells

        FIJ, Again you make generalizations and hypothesis, this time about me, that all I watch is FOX news. I’ve got news for you, I watch a lot more than FOX news, and read a lot more than just US sourced newspapers, because they all lie! But again, you avoided the main thrust of what I took you to task over, and that is making assumptions about someone else and their living situation based on a few posts. If you can’t see how wrong that is, I just don’t think you have any conscience at all.

        I’m not sure what you mean by lacking guts to “back up what we type”, but you are wrong on that count, too. You are just wrong. and a republican? What a joke!

        • BR549

          Paul wrote (to someone else): “Again you make generalizations and hypothesis, this time about me, that all I watch is FOX news. I’ve got news for you, I watch a lot more than FOX news, and read a lot more than just US sourced newspapers, because they all lie!”

          My wife asked me a few weeks ago why I bothered to listen to Beck, Hannity, and Limbaugh. I was a 27 year long Republican, but realized 20 years ago that that party no longer represented conservative values. I jumped ship. I can’t say where I stand, really, at least so that anyone would feel comfortable in pigeon-holing my politics, but I will say this; political, social, ethical, moral, and financial responsibility are not any one party’s claim to fame and the closer one comes to seeing what has been missing from our elected officials, the more one sees that those traits are not represented by those parties. Further, I would say that both of those parties at one time had some admirable traits, but not any longer.

          Back when Pappa Bush (may the traitor rot in hell) was treasonously attempting to sell us all out with his syrupy speech on the New World Order, no one was really wise to what he was pushing. Clinton stepped in and obligingly passed NAFTA for him, leaving many of us out here in the back bleachers to ask, WTF?

          But when Bush the Idiot got into office, it was Beck, Hannity, and Limbaugh who were too busy calling anyone who questioned the party line, “unpatriotic”. They were all too busy polishing their American flag lapel pins in order to gain larger audiences lusting for revenge of what we are NOW all coming to realize was a hoax; a false flag of enormous proportions that they were guilty of propagating as much as anyone. At least now, FINALLY, those three are jumping ship with the former party line and realizing that is in vogue now to question the downward direction in which Washington is taking us.

          Anyway, I listen to these three douches because if I want to find out how far behind many of the average viewers are, I can count on listening to their news to show me how much the population needs to catch up. I will say one thing, no matter how much they are all prostituting themselves for ratings, at least they aren’t now trying to convince the masses that gun control saves lives.

    • mamba

      FIJ the only things your posts convey is that your are a first class ass.

  • Duran Bailiff

    God bless America! Love your work Wayne Allen Root- I only wished more of your brothers had your perspective and wisdom. Keep up the excellent work, and Happy New Year!

  • http://www.facebook.com/holton.brown Holton F. Brown

    Guns save lives?? Does thgat include the thousans that die every year in suicides… not to mention .. more importantly .. those who die in accidents

    • Jeff

      If you have a gun in your house, you are several times more likely to be the victim of gun violence than if you do not. Yes, that includes suicides. People who attempt suicide with a gun are far more “successful” than those who attempt other methods. Most people who survive a suicide attempt do not try again. The fact that you knew someone who committed suicide without a gun does not disprove the thesis that guns ARE very dangerous things to have in your house.

      • BR549

        Jeff wrote: “If you have a gun in your house, you are several times more likely to be the victim of gun violence than if you do not. Yes, that includes suicides.”

        Wow, I guess we can also say that anyone with feet has a higher likelihood of jumping off a bridge. Accordingly, we should then ban bridge construction and cut off everyone’s feet.

        What’s next? I can see it in the nightly news, now, “Government to ban all kitchen knives to make homes safer. Film at eleven.”

        You know, rather than you people always having to BLAME someone or something, why don’t you try looking a little deeper to see what social issues that are being totally ignored by our policy makers that result in “violence” and “mental illness?

        I know it requires using a few more brain cells, but I think you can do it.

        • Jeff

          That’s the kind of idiotic equivalency I’d expect from a total moron. I thought you were more intelligent than that.

          • BR549

            Jeff wrote: “That’s the kind of idiotic equivalency I’d expect from a total moron. I thought you were more intelligent than that.”

            Gee, Jeff, I was just returning one idiotic volley with another.

          • Jeff

            What is idiotic about pointing out that statistically you are safer without a gun in your house? You can still have one as I’m sure you do. You’ll use it on the first FBI agent who comes to your door? Or do they have to be coming to take you to a concentration camp? And how will you know the difference?

          • BR549

            Jeff wrote: “What is idiotic about pointing out that statistically you are safer without a gun in your house?”

            We’re probably much safer from the outside world as long as we stay inside the womb, too, well, to a point, but that doesn’t mean that everyone should all have to reconstruct that bubble into our adult lives just because a few people feel insecure about their place in the world or are having to assess their mortality on a daily basis. How else would we have ever made it to the moon if astronauts got the heebie-jeebies about the height?

            “You’ll use it [a gun, I suppose] on the first FBI agent who comes to your door? Or do they have to be coming to take you to a concentration camp? And how will you know the difference?”

            Are you always this paranoid?

          • Jeff

            You’re the one who says he needs a gun to fight this tyrannical government. I’m just wondering how that fight might manifest itself. As for paranoia, I think you warriors on this blog have retired the trophy.

          • BR549

            Jeff wrote: “You’re the one who says he needs a gun to fight this tyrannical government.”

            And I stated that “he”, specifically, needed a gun. Who might that be and when did I say that?

      • JC

        Jeff says:
        December 29, 2012 at 6:12 pm
        If you have a gun in your house, you are several times more likely to be the victim of gun violence than if you do not. Yes, that includes suicides.
        ____________________________________________________________________

        Jeff, what ever will you do after you’ve rid the world of guns?
        Will you throw away the super hero cape…or will you find another great liberal crusade?
        I’m guessing that assault rope will be the next thing on your hit list…after all, people can hang themselves with it and we have to save them from themselves…don’t we?
        Or maybe you’ll go after those nasty assault knives…
        or the assault pills everyone will be using to kill themselves…
        because you so kindly rid the world of assault rifles and assault pistols…

        You’re my hero! :)

  • George Saufley

    Ultimate “controlling people known as ‘control freaks”” in every organization including government. I see the government and they are us. Who knows the odds are very slim but not impossible some gun violence could have been staged by super controlling strategists the mentally ill or vulnerable for gun control or other reasons???????????? If so it would be sad day in country. If Hitler could control normal people just imagine what might be done with the vulnerable or the mentally ill. Leaving these people without treatment is far more dangerous than gun control.

  • Adam

    blog on gun control and mental health

    http://donttreadonanyone.tumblr.com/

  • http://Yahoo.com Cessna

    If its safer without guns, why does the Prez need protection ? DUH !!!

  • http://www.facebook.com/waltersegall Td Walter Segall

    New York City just recorded its lowest number of homicides in decades — 414 for 2012. NYC’s gun control laws may have played a large role in this.

    My pro handgun control views come from my experiences. On Dec 27, 1991 my dear wife (Of Blessed Memory) died of breast cancer, and I called her best friend, a man whom she would surely have married instead of me had he not beeen twenty years her junior, seriously mentally ill, and totally homosexual to tell him of the funeral arrangements, and the cop who answered the phone had to tell me thathis father had murdered him, the mother and committed suicide with his legally licensed .38 revolver.

    I can understand the father’s despair. He had been a very respected judge in maritime court, and the son was a disgrace who livd at hoem with the parents and insisted on walking around the neighborhood in flamboyant drag, but I am quite certain that had the father not had the revolver all three of them might still be alive.

    W.

    T

    • MLR

      TD
      Maybe the low murder rate is due to the fact that abortion is legal and all those unwanted kids didn’t get born to go around killing people

      • mamba

        You are a hateful bigot

        • MLR

          I am not a hatefull bigot. I am just saying you got unknown numbers of people out there that take no responceability for there own lives let alone their childrens. don’t mater if they are white or black, hispanic or asian. gangs are everywhere, no parental control of the kids, the kids have more kids and things get even worse.

  • http://www.facebook.com/holton.brown Holton F. Brown

    let’s see .. he’s the president .. he’s black .. how’s that for starters .. AND .. why did Ronnie Reagan .. and the Bushes need protection .. and then there were two active attempts on Ford’s life .. And .. didn’t a certain member of congress suggest all congress members have CCWs..??

  • http://www.facebook.com/holton.brown Holton F. Brown

    TD … that’s gotta be one of the dumbest things i’ve ever read on a website …
    besides… at least half of those kids would have been born female .. and catching your implied racism .. only ten percent would have been black ….
    this of course taking into account that never in the history of mankind has a republican woman sought an abortion even in cases of lack of ability to raise a child .. financial problems .. a certainly .. never in cases of pregnancy by rape …

    • http://www.facebook.com/holton.brown Holton F. Brown

      Please Excuse last post .. that shud be directed at MLR …../

    • MLR

      I am just sayng you got stupid, probably unwanted kids in the first place. With basically no parental guidance. having more stupid unwanted kids. got nothing to do with race. So if the kids aren’t born, less little criminals out there in the first place.

    • MLR

      Also with your logic you should be very happy abortion is still legal, cause you are saying only Democrats have abortions, less of them to put up with.

      • http://www.facebook.com/holton.brown Holton F. Brown

        I was being sarcastic because many Republican women do have abortions ..and what makes you think many of those kids would become criminals .. it would be a situation where there could be 48 million new liberals .. which would really stunt the Republican/conservative party ..

      • JC

        I don’t know what political persuasion they are… but I do know that the majority of aborted children are black. So much for compassion…it’s population control and it’s targeted at an identifiable minority.

        • MLR

          the majority of the gangs are black and hispanic aren’t they?I am not recomending abortion, just saying there are a lot less unwanted kids, that would have no parental control over them out there, because abortion was and still is legal

  • BR549

    Blah, Blah, Blah.

    Wayne, we already know this. What people need is more discussion on the connection of dots for WHY this is happening. As Ron Paul had stated before his departure, “Americans keep voting for change, yet the agenda always stays the same.”

    The gun issue, the bailouts, the Patriot Act, suspension of Posse Comitatus, the rapid expansion of federal government; these are ALL following the guidelines for increasing UN usurpation of global government control, not just here in the US.

    Obama is a likable enough fellow, as was Bush, but Bush was an oaf while Obama is an intelligent guy. He KNOWS what he is doing as he is sabotaging our economy, and yet the libtards will sit smugly by and blame the Republicans for what is happening. Their collective memory seems to be genetically limited to less than four years, and anything further back than that was when they couldn’t see a leftist president.

    They fail to concatenate the administrations, most notably since Bush41, where he and every president afterward has handed the globalist baton to the next Rockefeller and Bilderberg approved flunky.

    We know guns save lives, but the libtards are still listening to the likes of Rahm Emanuel, who is busy ignoring the fact that Chicago just surpassed 500 murders for ONE YEAR. They don’t want to be bothered with the details, nor can they even comprehend the larger picture of corruption, because then their bubble would REALLY burst.

    It isn’t that we have a spending problem; that would ALMOST give the illusion that the legislature was as innocent as a flock of hens cackling around the barn floor every morning. Instead, looking at this in reverse, we are spending so much BECAUSE keeping us continually engaged in trumped up wars is the fastest way to further destabilize the American economy, while giving the illusion to the brain dead voters that we are needing to combat terrorism.

    If we really have that many disgruntled citizens throughout the world, perhaps it says something about the complete lack of social management skills being practiced by this gaggle of elitist misanthropes who refuse to let any new blood into their group. NOW, with that in mind, it becomes easier to see what groups are controlling our corrupt and treasonous president AND our equally complicit legislature.

  • Right Brain Thinker

    Food for thought…..

    Firman Debrander argued in this morning’s New York Times. It’s worth the time to read the whole thing, but here’s the core of his case:

    “…guns pose a monumental challenge to freedom, and particular, the liberty that is the hallmark of any democracy worthy of the name — that is, freedom of speech. Guns do communicate, after all, but in a way that is contrary to free speech aspirations: for, guns chasten speech.

    “This becomes clear if only you pry a little more deeply into the N.R.A.’s logic behind an armed society. An armed society is polite, by their thinking, precisely because guns would compel everyone to tamp down eccentric behavior, and refrain from actions that might seem threatening. The suggestion is that guns liberally interspersed throughout society would cause us all to walk gingerly — not make any sudden, unexpected moves — and watch what we say, how we act, whom we might offend.

    “As our Constitution provides, however, liberty entails precisely the freedom to be reckless, within limits, also the freedom to insult and offend as the case may be. The Supreme Court has repeatedly upheld our right to experiment in offensive language and ideas, and in some cases, offensive action and speech. Such experimentation is inherent to our freedom as such. But guns by their nature do not mix with this experiment — they don’t mix with taking offense. They are combustible ingredients in assembly and speech.

    “After all, a population of privately armed citizens is one that is increasingly fragmented, and vulnerable as a result. Private gun ownership invites retreat into extreme individualism — I heard numerous calls for homeschooling in the wake of the Newtown shootings — and nourishes the illusion that I can be my own police, or military, as the case may be….

    “As Michel Foucault pointed out in his detailed study of the mechanisms of power, nothing suits power so well as extreme individualism. In fact, he explains, political and corporate interests aim at nothing less than “individualization,” since it is far easier to manipulate a collection of discrete and increasingly independent individuals than a community. Guns undermine just that — community. Their pervasive, open presence would sow apprehension, suspicion, mistrust and fear, all emotions that are corrosive of community and civic cooperation. To that extent, then, guns give license to autocratic government.

    “Our gun culture promotes a fatal slide into extreme individualism. It fosters a society of atomistic individuals, isolated before power — and one another — and in the aftermath of shootings such as at Newtown, paralyzed with fear. That is not freedom, but quite its opposite. And as the Occupy movement makes clear, also the demonstrators that precipitated regime change in Egypt and Myanmar last year, assembled masses don’t require guns to exercise and secure their freedom, and wield world-changing political force. Arendt and Foucault reveal that power does not lie in armed individuals, but in assembly — and everything conducive to that”.

  • Kolob

    Obama the biggest spender? Try subtracting the costs for the Iraq war debacle and the failed Afghanistan war into the Bush Jr. spending column and re-do your math. Also consider why we needed stimulus spending to begin with! Duh? Shame on you for once again bending the truth. Also, go to Sandy Hook and explain to them how guns save lives. I dare you.

    • http://midcontent brand inspector

      Kolob, it was a mandate drug and gun free zone you idoit. Another rule and federal law, all which never work. It equate to more UN mindset of passing hand ringing to stop dictators of wordy BS. Who do these socialist dictaor run countries call on to do something when things get snafued, it is the USA, not China and Russia, which citizens can not own guns only criminals do. Also there are deaths of students that gangs kill, becausese kids will not join or pay shakedown money to walk the street to school. Deaths are usually by beating with tire irons and or pipes. Guns are too noisy and is too speedy. The idea that law enforcement will take care of issues, is so much liberial brain dead theorist crap. Police arrive after the deed is ended and only measurements and pictures are done. Too late and to distant to be on site.The victum is the first respnder with the ability to access what power is needed. Arm every one and lock up freaks and odd balls, the nut jobs the have done the mass killing all should have been confined away from society, and all thanks to the feel good brain dead thoerists paper scratchers.

  • http://midcontent brand inspector

    Kolob a gun did save lots of wasted time and taxpayers money when the nut job extingished his running lights by taste testing a warm gun barrel with lead residue.

  • ibcamn

    oh oh,i see i screwed the pooch on this one…..i missed everything today!busy with my daughter guys….im not on Obama’s package and i didnt just get up!but i see i missed a good one today!…..

  • BR549

    Kate8 wrote: “First, there are over 100,000 NATO troops here waiting for instructions.”

    Kate, from what I hear, there are a LOT more than that number stationed here on American soil. Many reports have a large number in the New Mexico area and YouTube has shown a very large number of tanks being shipped with woodland camo paint jobs. Interesting, since all our engagements currently require desert camo patterns.

    These UN mercenaries would have no problem kicking down your parents’ front door and dragging them off, kicking and screaming, from the home they’d been in for decades. Someone had suggested elsewhere that the figure was shy of 2,000,000, but I think that’s a bit high. 100,000 troops really wouldn’t be that much when you consider what the globalists would be trying to do and within such a short time.

    If you know of anyone who is allowing their kids to enlist …… even in the National Guard ….. this is what’s happening; first, all these wars keep our fighting age American men and women occupied SOMEWHERE ELSE on the planet, so that when the SHTF, those kids aren’t here to help defend their own country or their parents, friends, sisters, etc..

    Second, the enlistment ads they have in the media now, for kids to enlist in the Guard, show Guardsmen being proud for assisting in disaster relief, but what they don’t tell these kids is that they are just replacement enlistment fodder for the overseas war machine and if they ever do wind up getting a chance to help their own communities, it’d be a freakin’ miracle. They use the term “citizen soldier” to indoctrinate these kids into supporting the federal government, while the kids are left believing they’ll be helping out close to home.

    • http://www.facebook.com/holton.brown Holton F. Brown

      whoa.. .. you people need counseling ..a lot less glenn beck and a lot more diazapam ….

      • mamba

        blah blah blah blah blah ….the endless whining, complaining and droning from the left.

        • http://www.facebook.com/holton.brown Holton F. Brown

          I don’t think it’s whining when I comment on traitorous act or threats thereof ..

          • mamba

            hahaha Holton F. Brown: of course YOU don’t. hahahaha

          • http://www.facebook.com/holton.brown Holton F. Brown

            I won’t be whining as I clip off traitors as they come up my street… I’ll be smiling…

          • mamba

            And who would those “traitors” be Holton F. Brown? Perhaps you would care to elaborate since you are apparently so gleeful in your thoughts of picking them off, which I do believe is also defined as pre-meditation….to a crime.

          • http://www.facebook.com/holton.brown Holton F. Brown

            persons taking up arms to overthrow the government of the united states is treason .. one of the things mentioned in the oath I took on entering the air force (that little bit about “enemies, foreign and domestc”) ..i take that very seriously .. and while considering that most reprfesentative governments aren’t always efficient .. they beat the crap ouy of dictatorships.. run by tinpot fascists ..like it’s been elswhere on this site that the military and police would joinn tthe “cause” really .. so whjo’s gonna pay their salaries .. along with all the other government employees that do little things like air traffic control .. coast guard rescue .. agriculture inspectors .. get out the social security checks .. you knock out those littlev entitlements .. you’re gonna have abouit 45 million geezers seeking to flay your “junk” and how about those checks that veterans get every month .. think they’ll enjoy the short fall??
            ryou want to make light of treason .. it’s one of the few crimes mentioned specifically in the constitution .. even proscribes the prosecution .. two witnesses required . and then . penalties quite high ..though not specific in the constitutiion … like life at that cfountry club setting at leavenworth Kansas .. or even the club fed at florence colorado .. makes pelican bay look like pal beach …but then you could get a trip to the timmy mc veigh suite at marion .. that’s where they give you the “deadly drip” as I like to call it..
            now, if you want to go for mass settings for attacking forces ..well, like we used to say in the USAF .”That’s why they make machine guns!!” LOL..
            as for the possibility of a rebellion actually coming to fruition.. ya really, really think yer gonna knock down an A-10 warthog with. an. AR-15?? now that’s funny……

          • macgyver1948

            Holton F Brown….. This is very good. I am saving this comment because I like it but not to use as my own although I agree with it. There is nothing an armed treasonous assault against our government, as sluggish as it is, could be remotely better about or even as good. The lacking of funding and paying, you mention as a few, would bring that rebellion to a halt very soon. The military would have something to say with no paydays and not only their retired. Also since we will all be old and retired some day if we are lucky, I wouldn’t like how the Gray army would stand up to the rebellion either. But then of those who speak against deserved and earned entitlements, such as Social Security and Medicare, they do not seem to see the need for the necessary and deserved funding.

            In my last comment to you I mentioned that grisly bear and trying to shoot him with a .22. Well, these guys who want to over throw our government would be like using that .22 against a big bear. Sadly a lot of innocent people would be hurt in their attempt. And I see it as treasonous just as you do. I took that same oath when I went into the Air Force and unless I see the Government turning Nazi or Commie, or the result of some kind of Jihad, it would be treasonous to try to take them out even for those Americans who were not in our military.

          • mamba

            Time to take off your myopic glasses of the state of our government Holton F. Brown. You don’t have to look very far to find commies sitting on capitol hill. You and macgyver sound like 2 old cronies who have spent way too much time drinking koolaid and becoming zombified by the NNM. Sad for you. And you actually made the comment that people who don’t think like you need to take diazapam and stop listening to Beck. LMAO Show’s how much you know. Sounds like you are the one that could benefit from your own advice except that you should be listening to Beck. You might learn something, along with the fact that Beck has never, ever made a call for violence or revolution. Both you and macgyver assume WAAYY too much and operate on very little information. BTW were the founding father’s treasonous HFB and macgyver? Seems like they were’nt big fans of their government at the time. LOL And a few years macgyver? That is just too funny. It has been more than a “few” years and the only thing the POTUS has brought us is more debt! You two could take your show on the road. hahahahahahahahaha Load up your gun HFB and start shooting. You are the very definition of USEFUL IDIOT. Just keep those Social Security checks in place, right?

          • macgyver1948

            mamba… Were the Founders treasonous? Well, maybe from a British point of view they were, not mine. I like The Freedoms and Liberties the Founders granted us through the Constitution and that is something I feel you have no understanding. If people do not agree with you and your kind they do not deserve Liberty. I like religious freedom for all equally but I was afraid Romney would allow it only for those who agree with his wants for others who are not of his faith. He has proven that in the past. I enjoy Freedom Of Speech because without it we have no freedom.

            Drinking “koolaid” is what you got to throw at us? There are those on the right who use that approach to try to justify a weakness in us but those with sense and intelligence know it doesn’t work so it is an idiot’s approach.

            So this POTUS has brought us more debt, has he. Well, all presidents bring on more debt but you should remember a lot of the debt accrued during the early years of Obama was bush jr generated and since huge budgets don’t go into effect right a way some of the bush jr budgets didn’t until Obama was in office for a bit. I suppose it is easy for Obama haters to attach those budgets to Obama. And we can not forget we are still paying for the bush jr wars. Do you remember all that money bush jr gave to his big oil exec friends. Did that come from his pockets?

            What would we learn from Beck and the other Rush idiot? Maybe we would learn they are in the business of building ratings and they do that through their blinded hate for Obama. There is not much credibility in either of them.

            I told you this before. You have no use for history and you can’t learn from it so you are the kind who will repeat the mistakes of the past or you will deny them. The TPGOP has made plenty, and so have the Dems, but at least the Dems will admit their mistakes and try to learn from them. For example (which side has more honor), when bush jr lied through his teeth to the world and us just so he could get us to immorally invade Iraq. Was that to avenge daddy bush? When it was learned his reasons were lies, many Dems who voted for the invasion said they wouldn’t have if they had the truth. Then I heard some GOPrs in Congress say those who changed their minds on the Left where wishy washy. I would so much rather trust those who could admit to a mistake then those who would stand by their mistakes, defend them even, and put down those who had the courage to speak up.

            You want to refer to us as “2 old cronies” but I bet we “2 old cronies“ have more love for this country and more honor than you could ever pretend you have.

            With your denial of liberty for those who do not agree with you how could you have any feeling for Americanism? Call us whatever you want for not agreeing with you but since you have no credibility who would care what you say but you do have the right to be wrong, as we all do, and insulting as many who think like you are. If you were in office the country would need to be treasonous so we can get back to the business of Freedom equally for all. You do not care about people, do you with remarks like your one about Social Security? I think it is way past time for you to grow up.

          • BR549

            macgyver wrote: “Were the Founders treasonous? Well, maybe from a British point of view they were, not mine. I like The Freedoms and Liberties the Founders granted us through the Constitution ….”

            Man had been undergoing changes in his awareness of the human spirit since the Greeks, but more recently, it was John Locke who had significantly impacted liberal thought and the formation of our Constitution. What if it were the rulers who had been committing treason to their own people? That seems to be what we are still dealing with today. The Constitution was the result of about a dozen documents within a linear evolution. Some say it started with the Mayflower Compact; then there was the Albany Plan of Union of 1754, The Articles of Confederation, etc. The actual list is much longer because there were parallel documents being drafted within the several colonies and regions. So, while we may have a dozen documents if we list them chronologically, there might be upwards of 60 if we include some of the redundant ones from each of the different areas, districts, and colonies.

            The point is that we had a chance to escape that slavery 200 years ago by refusing to bow to abusive royalty, and here we are again, having to do the same thing. The problem is that too many people can’t believe it could be happening today in the US. S.S.D.D.

            “Drinking “koolaid” is what you got to throw at us? There are those on the right who use that approach to try to justify a weakness in us but those with sense and intelligence know it doesn’t work so it is an idiot’s approach.”

            The idiot is the one who can’t see that both political parties had long ago been taken over and been given their marching orders by corrupt, globalist oriented banking interests. The idiot is one who continues to believe that HIS party and his party ALONE will save us from oblivion, while everything that is wrong with this country can be blamed on the OTHER party. That moronic and myopic thinking is what is destroying this country, while the globalists are busy laughing over cocktails.

          • macgyver1948

            BR549… I am not so sure we can say the British were treasonous toward their people because they were a monarchy and they usually had total power until not so long ago. I would agree that our politicians are straying from who they are suppose to represent, whatever party, so maybe ours are in more ways than many of us care to admit. I have written before, of whoever in Congress or the white house, who weakens the Constitution without our permission is treasonous since it was written for us to be protected against the government. For example of this “The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people; it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government – lest it come to dominate our lives and interests.­”- Patrick Henry -

            With that said I can think of George W and Homeland Security for one example of this kind of violation but there have been others and perhaps since.

            Along with these the Founders warned us of the dangers from the Corporations and Banks and as our “representatives” sell themselves to these groups for the big money and support in elections I have to wonder who they really represent, Not really, I do not wonder but we seem to allow this to go on whether it is control of the politicians through conflict-of interest pledges or out right campaign contributions and other monies it is all hurting us as a free country.

            I have lost faith in all parties but for the mean time I will support the party who seems to have our best interest at heart more so than the other. And in that I do so only at the polls but I write what I think, for whatever that is worth. I think the idiot in a free society is one who, as you say, totally believes his party, but also the ones who will not allow others their views and they get insulting and angry for it. A country who will not allow differing views is losing it but individuals who do not allow it are the real idiots because they are arguing against what we stand for too, Liberty and Freedom. If it isn’t for all equally it isn’t.

            Let me explain. When it comes to the private sector we should be allowed only what we can pay for and maintain. But from Government the guy who is worth $50 trillion should get no more benefit from our Government than the guy making $25,000 a year. I know it doesn’t work that way but I am an idealist and I can hope.

            I see the GOP as a party who is in business solely for the benefit and protection of the big corporations (not so much the small ones) and the banks more so then the Dems but they too should be watched. I feel betrayed but I do not feel the gov owes my anything more than what I pay into. When ready I am entitled to Social Security since I paid into it for so many years. As for Medicare, I will deserve it when I am old enough and I pay the monthly premium but I want no welfare from Uncle Sam and I want to pay my own way until I need help.

            I also see no compassion from the GOP and their apathy and greed is causing them to hurt the UN-wealthy. They come up with idiocies such as “if you are unemployed it it your fault”, and there are more, when so many are made unemployed by their employer to serve their greed and need or wants to cut expenses. I see things wrong with the Dems too but not as hurtful. I guess it is all how we feel and see it that determines what side of the aisle we support. A good majority saw fit to reelect Obama even with his faults because those who voted for him feel more at ease with him than the other guy who we saw as a total property of the wealthier than he.

            I am not sure how to fix this but I am hoping it is not through violence because so many of us will get hurt and killed as I do not see us win against the military, they have bigger guns.

          • BR549

            macgyver wrote: “…… we seem to allow this to go on whether it is control of the politicians through conflict-of interest pledges or out right campaign contributions and other monies it is all hurting us as a free country. ……. I have lost faith in all parties but for the mean time I will support the party who seems to have our best interest at heart more so than the other.”

            Don’t be so quick to admonish the Republican Party. That party once helped to represent the uneducated farmer and working man and allowed their more educated and worldly experienced representatives to represent them in matters they knew very little about. The early Democrat Party supporters on the other hand were concerned with having representation that didn’t trod too far ahead of the understanding of its constituency.

            All that has changed. Where once, each of these parties had represented some measure of sound values, they have BOTH become corrupted to serve the European banking families. One can get a sense of this in investigating how British and European royalty had imposed Admiralty Law, the UCC, and the UPU onto other countries, which, quite frankly, hoped that the Europeans would take their domineering strategies and just go the hell home. Today, we continue to see these structures as the basis for European royalty to regain and maintain a dominant hold over world commerce even while their prior rate of physical expansionism was drawing to a close. If they could no longer conquer countries by physical might, they sought to conquer them through banking manipulation, deceit, and phony legal structures.

            Once you weed through all the BS, it really comes down to everyone supporting the Constitution, because THAT is the one single document that binds all US citizens under a common goal of deterring tyranny; that is of course if people are allowed to be educated as to what tyranny really is.

          • macgyver1948

            BR549 .. You are somewhat right about your assessment of the Republican Party in the past but they were bought and controlled by pledges such as the Norquist one and they cannot disobey if they want their careers to survive. That is one example but it is a strong one with over 270 GOP in Congress being controlled by that mafia like pledge. I said this in the comment of mine you seem to be responding to.

            Yes both parties are more controlled than they used to be but the Dems are stilling at least showing they have concerns for the unwealthy. With that pledge I mentioned in the last paragraph all the TPGOP signors of it are pledging that they are solely in business for he benefit and protection of the Big Corporations and not much at all for us. I say this often because that is how I see it. I voted for myself in the the election and I do not mean I was running for office.

            I hope they are supporting the Constitution but I see violations in that too. bush jr and Home Land Security for one. We need the Constitution strong for us because that is our protection against a nasty government if we lose it at their hands. From the politicians there is so much BS to “weed though”. It is not that easy to see who is right for us by just listening to their words which is not good enough to know them and their real intentions, we need to watch their actions which will so much better tell us who they represent.

            That thing you say about being educated concerning tyranny might just depend on who is doing the teaching. If the teachers are telling us we have to fight against all who will not agree with us, not be on our acceptable religions list or share our views or how to run our lives or what side of the aisle we sit politically (Dem or GOP) for examples, then the tyranny could be in the teaching.

          • http://www.facebook.com/holton.brown Holton F. Brown

            hey macgyver .. you see wherfe there is a petition to charge any member of congress with treason if they file a bill to increase gun control …..???… well so much for that part of the Constitution that allows for members of congress to do just that ..

          • macgyver1948

            Holton F. Brown… The Constitution is being manipulated and redefined as time goes by. This petition is nothing new but I doubt it will get any where. If they (Right) can file a petition to charge anyone for increasing gun control then there should be a federal law against conflict-of-interest and betraying pledges such as the Norquist goodies. That pledge very much is working against our best interest but just so the interests of the big corporations are met who cares about us. This cannot be said enough.

          • http://www.facebook.com/holton.brown Holton F. Brown

            two old cronies .. hell at my age and experience.. I take that as a compliment … with four years active USAF predating.. just barely .. the vietnam fracas .. having lots of buds from WW2, korea and Vietnam .. i’ll take my friends and experiences over anything mamba sez .. by the way .. the least he could do is take an American snake name .. like coral .. or mojave .. diamondback …hell .. i’d even go for the latin american, fer de lance ..

          • macgyver1948

            Holton F. Brown … what memba says and those who think like him doesn’t matter because they themselves don’t when they get like that. I am good about being in during the Vietnam War. Some day he too will be an old fart, if he is lucky enough, but he will still be stupid and disrespectful. Who cares, LOL…

          • mamba

            @ macgyver1948 – Again, another lovely diatribe full of assumptions (that couldn’t be further from the mark) from a retiree that is apparently more than happy to saddle future generations, those being born right now, with insurmountable debt while completely ignoring the FACTS as they are TODAY! (btw: NO ONE on the right is, or ever did disparage social security or medicare, never mind that it will probably not be available for the millions of younger workers who have also paid into it for years! – and yes, when you believe the lies of the NNM who completely slandered a good and honest man like Romney and apparently scared you (based on slander and complete fabrications of the truth) – then yes – you are drinking the kool aid).

            You talk about personal liberty while supporting the man and the party that many Americans, if not millions, view as treasonous, treacherous, traitorous and at the very least disingenous liars that have absolutely no empathy for the American people as they talk endlessly about more entitlements that no one can pay for as the POTUS continues to travel all over the globe on lavish vacations, parties and hob knobbing with celebrities as he ensures that his pockets are well lined and will stay that way.

            He has no compassion for the American people with his continued attack and outright attempt at class warfare. He is neither honest nor transparent as he promised to be, and what about the murder of 4 Americans in Benghazi that the illiterate you call President bumbled and completely lied about for weeks on end? This is also the man that equates a good economy with high gas prices! (lol) Yet, you trust a man and a party that will lie through their teeth to maintain power and believe them even as they surround themselves with socialists, if not outright communists. That is truly sad, especially for a man that has a distinguished record of service for this same government that he seems to trust completely. Big mistake. Times have changed and we do have miscreants in the white house who could not be further removed from the constitution and the ideals of the founding fathers. They absolutely have their own agenda and it has nothing to do with preserving the constitution, freedom of speech or the right to bear arms.

            I am sorry, but it is you and people like Holton F. Brown that seem mightily confused about the meaning of personal liberty and free agency and a concept of fairness that does not exist and never will. Perhaps you should read “The Proper Role of Government” and start listening to Glenn Beck, especially before your friend Holton F. Brown picks up a gun and starts shooting people who basically think this government has gone FAR astray as the founders originally intended. Putting blind faith in government is what kept Hitler in power as well, lest you forget and Mao was just as smooth talking as Obama, promising hope and change. In fact, much of what Obama reads from his teleprompters (ahem) could have come from the eloquent speeches of Mao. Maybe you should read about him too and just how dictators do come to power. You, my friend, along with Holton et al., will find yourself on the wrong side of history, just like so many duped Germans who believed the persuasive and motivational rhetoric of a self-absorbed, elitist, self-aggrandized and I might add narcissist, known as Hitler.

          • Jeff

            The best weapon we Democrats have is opponents like you. As long as you post this nonsense comparing Obama to Hitler, no sane person will pay attention to anything sensible you might accidentally say someday. Keep it up, please.

          • BR549

            Jeff wrote: “As long as you post this nonsense comparing Obama to Hitler, no sane person will pay attention to anything sensible you might accidentally say someday.”

            What nonsense? Both Hitler and Obama are patsies being used by international banking interests, Both were/are charismatic, engaged nationalism, pushed for gun control in order to eventually target the registrants, and both had a sickening number of detention camps. Now, in his defense, Obama didn’t come up with all this himself. He was assisted by the traitors in the Bush family as well as the Clintons. Prior to that, people only has speculations about the presidents’ involvement with globalist banking interests sabotaging the American economy. Now we know.

            We’ve had people on both sides of the political fence who looked the other way while Hitler was performing his atrocities; all for the sake of MONEY. The same thing happened with Kosovo, Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan, and look at the mess we are in now. We’re sending “technical military support” to 35 countries in Africa and we have been secretly (not any more) arming the Syrian rebels; all from the same president that was going to bring the troops home.

            Don’t be so naive.

          • http://www.facebook.com/holton.brown Holton F. Brown

            To BR.. the reason we have mil-techs in africa is to break up al qaida training camps .. an d to spy on same … or would you have the foreign nasties come over here to plant bombs andthe other covert activities .. with the LIPs that die being our own people rather than Sudanese.. or Somalians (which by the way make up a majority of the pirates off the horn of africa ..) .. and many other countries there …
            God i wish you isolationists would use your damned heads once in a while ..

          • Jeff

            Yes, the problem with Hitler is he was controlled by bankers. Like the problem with teens having sex is it will lead to dancing.

          • Jeff

            So if you don’t favor pre-emptive wars, supporting foreign dictators, and building a virtual empire you’re an isolationist?

          • http://www.facebook.com/holton.brown Holton F. Brown

            Yes .. i do consider that isolationist ..as for the support of certain dictators ..it’s a necessary evil ….at bleast they’re our dictators and not the the bad guys’ ..

          • Jeff

            And your views on the U.N.? Black helicopters? Seeking to take us over?

          • BR549

            Holton wrote: “To BR.. the reason we have mil-techs in africa is to break up al qaida training camps .. and to spy on same … or would you have the foreign nasties come over here to plant bombs andthe other covert activities …”

            Jeez, Holton, you still believe that crap? That was the same myopia that allowed Bush (even the first one of those traitors) to smash as much of the Constitution as they did. Do you even understand what Bush had done when he suspended Posse Comitatus? The Clintons and Obama are in their too; they report to Rockefeller and Soros, like the rest of that bunch on the hill that have sold their own country out. I’m not sure what school you went to, but under the old standard, that was called treason.

            If there are any bombs being planted over here, biologicals dropped in our water supplies, or EMPs deployed over major cities, you can bet your bottom dollar that covert WESTERN forces were behind it. Forget al Qaeda in the sense that you’re thinking of. Didn’t you ever bother to question how “terrorists” armed with box cutters could manage to fool the standard military protocol FOUR times on the SAME day? Or how the Boston ATCs had known about their plane’s takeover, yet the government kept complaining it didn’t have enough time to scramble the jets. I haven’t looked at this for a year or so, but this was THE BEST collection I had seen on the details of 9/11 up to that time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwayjX4ipFc This is Part 1 of 10 on Youtube. While you’re at it, look up the difference between thermite and thermate and then ask yourself why residues of both had been found at the WTC. These weren’t just a couple grams, mind you; those scientists, architects and physicists who have officially signed on to question what happened back then now numbers over 1,700 and if I recall correctly, they extrapolated they there was at least 9,300 pounds of thermite/thermate used on 9/11

            Secondly, if you still can’t think that members of our own government would EVER be involved in anything like this, check out “A Noble Lie”, http://freemindfilms.com/a-noble-lie-oklahoma-city-1995/ , a 17 year in the making documentary about what REALLY happened at Oklahoma CIty and how the OKC bombing was a ruse to bury the governments documents and its complicity in the Waco slaughter of the Branch Davidians; shooting people (and children) in the back, etc. Waco was Janet Reno’s response to the BATF getting wind that Congress was contemplating underfunding that agency. In the movie, “The Long Kiss Goodnight”, operations like that were referred to as “fundraisers”. Meanwhile, those poor dopes sitting in front of their TVs in Toadsuck Arkansas are lapping it all up.

            Get up to speed: http://www.academia.edu/1608074/Terrorism_and_Western_Statecraft_Al-Qaeda_and_Western_Covert_Operations_After_the_Cold_War

          • http://www.facebook.com/holton.brown Holton F. Brown

            Oh God .. BR .. you’re one of those WTC conspiracy types
            I have NO use for people like you ..
            I lost a buddy at 9/11 and don’t need people like you and your ilk to spread unsubstantiated crapo about what happened that day
            and what if they had scrambled jets that day .. what would they have done ,, the trasnpsonders on those aircraft were turned off … whachagonna use to find those planes in the most congested airspace in the world .. a frigging oiuji board ?? I used to be the air frce .. the outfit charged with aerospace defence ,, they’re trained and set up to intercept INCOMING bogies .. not airliners ..everyone of “conspiracy theories” on 9/11 has been debunked by people who actually know what they are talking about .. and as a person who was involved with media coverage that day and follow ups.. … who like I first noted, lost a friend that .. and who knows follks who were involved as first responders .. and have talked with others involved .. I feel that supporters of so-called conspiracies theories don’t recognize the facts of the day and those revealed since ..
            as for the actions of american and other nation’s forces since then .. I am aware of and totally suppot them .. it ain’t pretty .. and it ain’t nice .. but war never is because many times you gotta get down to the enemies’ level to win ..
            to paraphrase a line about machine guns:
            That’s why they make Barette half-a-bucks…

          • BR549

            Holton wrote: “…. everyone of “conspiracy theories” on 9/11 has been debunked by people who actually know what they are talking about .. and as a person who was involved with media coverage that day and follow ups.”

            Wow, I’m impressed. So, you actually watched the film and can explain what the first responding firemen were talking about when they detailed that the long succession of explosions they heard was almost like a demolition. You can explain, then, the molten steel running down channels in the building’s structure and the fact that massive explosions were heard BEFORE the first building started to fall, not the other way around, where the collapsing building would have had to generate the sound.

            And I suppose you can explain how Bldg7 had managed to collapse, when no pieces of initial debris had hit it. Bear in might, that it takes literally weeks and months of technical preparation and removing the concrete from around the base girders to ready a building for a demo. Bldg7 had the classic “penthouse crimp” as do all demolished buildings that so cleverly fall into their own footprint.

            Had you bothered to watch the video, you might have asked yourself why so much drilling and construction was going at those transitional floors; why, since 9/11, the number of scientists, physicists, chemists, and architects that question the official story has risen from 700 to over 1,700, or explain the squibs from the windows far below the collapsing floors.

            Of course, the fact that the entire SEC’s case against ENRON just happened to be stored in Bldg7 had nothing to do with it, just like all the details of the Branch Davidian murders were all lost in the OKC bombing, where the FBI had instructed their staff NOT to show up for work that day. No conjecture, that’s now on record, along with witnesses claiming that the van blew up eight seconds AFTER the building started shaking from the charges set in the basement parking garage.

            I hope that bubble you’re living in keeps you warm and fuzzy.

          • http://www.facebook.com/holton.brown Holton F. Brown

            BR .. masssive explosion … severral explosions .. gee .. I watched and heard WTC2 and WTC1 and even WTC 7 come down on LIVE television .. even Faux had it .. and I heartd no explosive reports .. and i’ve also talked with people who were actually there and they heard no reports .. my reporter friend said he heard support columns breaking .. but no explosions .. and I know from my own experiences having been at two Controlled Demotition takedowns ..one three blocks away ..the other a mile you hear thise controlled detonations .. and I have been a “ear witness to 2 miles and 6 miles .. the reports are distinct.. also .. I have spken with the president of CDI in regards to the conspiracy claims .. he was quite profane and colourful ..
            now .. just when were those charges set .. certainly not after the twin crashes .. since everybody (except the cops and firefighters) were running outr of the buildingf ..or was it when the building was first built ?? funny that nobody noticed the shaped charges on the columns between the windows for .. what was it .. about 25 years .. and isn’t it interesting that that inner core charges went off at the same level as the aircraft inpingement???
            then there’s the clowns that claim the pentagon strike was actually a air to ground missle fired by an F-16 b.. when there are numerous eye witnesses that swear that missle looked like an airliner …

          • macgyver1948

            Holton F. Brown AND BR549… Interesting how you 2 are arguing about this especially since we can’t prove it either way yet. In those old days I lived in New Jersey and worked in lower Manhattan. I took the train to Newark NJ for a transfer to another train which became a subway going through what was dubbed “The Tubes”, some tunnels going under the river connecting Jersey and lower Manhattan. Each working day I arrived under the Twin Towers, maybe 3 or 4 levels under street level, and took the elevators to a lobby of the Twin Towers and then walked the 4 blocks to the Fed building where I worked. I was off that day. I lived about 19 miles from the Twin Towers by way of crow flyings.

            Something woke me up around 8 am, the times of the crashes, but I am not sure I heard them. Very soon my phone rang and I was told to put the TV on. On TV I saw the live action in Lower Manhattan as well as recorded videos of the plane crashes. I walked out side as some point and I looked toward Manhattan and I saw, and could almost smell, the evil thick black smoke. It was enormous and seemed to be attacking the clouds.

            I was pissed for several reasons. One, the city I was born and raised in was under attack. Second, a very good friend of mine’s brother owned a company housed in the Towers and many of his employees were at work and now gone because of the crashes; he was in California for business so he was physically ok. Third, My country was under attack.

            I read so many conspiracy theories over time and since we have those about these attacks. My point is whether the enemies in these are foreign or domestic we have a serious problem and we should not be arguing about which. If it is domestic we have a bigger problem but we should not be arguing and name calling, just discuss this for academic reasons, what else can we do? It seems we will always have conspiracy theories concerning major events, such as the Kennedy assassinations (there is a lot there too and the Warren Commission’s report on JFK is loaded with boring stuff answering really nothing), but we citizens can’t prove anything until they are no longer theories. How is fighting and insulting one another getting that done? Just share what you believe and leave it at that. I find both sides interesting and we should be enjoying these discussions.

          • BR549

            So then, Holton, you’ve seen the video I referenced (which is just one of many) and can account for the residue from 9,300 lbs of thermite, and the 1,700 physicists, architects, and chemists who no longer agree with your assessment. And since you’re so “familiar” with demolitions, you no doubt found the images of the girders at ground zero with diagonal slices through them. Didn’t you ever wonder WHY all the girders were shuffled out of the area before the NTSB inspection had even begun? No, I didn’t think so.

            It’s far easier to believe that some guy in a cave, across the ocean, managed to have pilots, who couldn’t even pass flight school for a Cessna, pull nearly impossible moves and crash commercial airliners dead-on into three landmark buildings …….. while our fighter pilots were all somehow pounding their carrots in flight while having coffee and a doughnut.

            BTW, I have some bad news for you about the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny.

          • MLR

            you really think that the GOP isn’t being used (bought) by the banking interests and big business?

          • BR549

            MLR wrote: “you really think that the GOP isn’t being used (bought) by the banking interests and big business?”

            Had you been paying attention to my posts, you would have understood that BOTH parties have been under the bankers’ thumb for at least 150 years. The banking families have been threatening legislators for years, both Republican AND Democrat. Heck, both Romney and Obama were Bilderberg attendees, So was Rick Perry. Perry’s association with the globalists are why he pretended to squash the foreign owned NAFTA highway system in Texas ……. and then turned right around and sandbagged his own voters by sneaking the approval for it behind closed doors. Bilderberg LOVED John Edwards, but he was his own problem.

            It doesn’t make any difference which party some candidate claims to represent; parties are just a method to separate people from ideologies that they have in common.

          • MLR

            apologies. I just saw the one post.
            I agree with you, both parties are more or less worhtless to American citizens.

          • macgyver1948

            Jeff… Right on, so to speak. They just do not see how ineffective they are with those comparisons because they are blinded by their programming.

          • macgyver1948

            mamba… You speak of Obama out of hate for him so you speak of him in the negative as you and those who were told to hate him since before he was elected the first time. I believe it comes from a place similar to who our enemies were in Europe during WW2. I see this because those people today are against any who who allow the raising of taxes and they are against regulations, needed or not, and they have to have things their ways or they will do the negative publicity thing toward those who will not agree with their ways. Why else would they begin their negative campaign long before he entered office and long before they could know how much he would agree with them but instead work for our needs.

            Their predecessors called President Eisenhower a Communist because he wasn’t so controllable by them. Maybe also because he helped defeat Hitler in WW2 but that is just my opinion and I think it is mostly economics and control. Every one who wasn’t of them, then or now by their new name, is a commie if they can’t control them. Over 270 GOP in Congress is working for them and the benefit of the corporations and you are supporting them over yourselves in doing so.

            To me personal Liberty not only includes each individual doing his live as he sees it right for them and also allowing that same attitude for all others. To speak as you, with the arrogance of “only my ways are right for all and if you you do not agree with me you are wrong and not welcome in our deluded version of America”. I do not need you to agree with me but you seem to go to the dark and hateful side because you hate it when those who do not see it for themselves as you want all to see it. I say I that way because the first time we connected it was you who jumped in at me and started with your insults and BS. You are a small child with emotional acceptance problems and all you know is the temper tantrum when you aren’t agreed with. That is not Liberty and it insults Americanism. All you showed when you first contacted me was your childish angry temper tantrum with insult. Do you really expect people to change to your ways when you come on as a fricken bully right from the start? Brown shirt tactics at best. Do you understand that historical reference?

            You speak of Hitler but I do not think you understand the reflection you and he have in common with your kinds of attitudes. What kept Hitler in power was the extreme power he held over his military. He stole the government with your kind of bullying and he needed to because he lost the election by a fairly large margin. In his campaigns for the election not only did he bully people verbally and physically but also with his tea like propaganda and misguided hate machine. He would tell the people what he wanted them to believe about his opponents and he did so with you kind of BS.

            Delude yourself all you want as you make the accusations against Obama and those who support him, just as your reflection connection I mention above did, but they are only words and you have nothing backing your words with proof, just blind hate. All we have to do to lose what the Founders gave us is to give into people like you. You lose credibility from your kind of “hello” with your kind of tactics. Have some tea because your programming is slipping and all you seem to be about is a dull silly funny childishness, a sad one since I think you are an adult but I could be wrong about that.

            By the way, so many politicians on both sides of the aisle and busy corporate execs use teleprompters so your attempt to put Obama down for using them is pointless.

            I listen to Obama and I so not see Mao or Hitler in his words. But hating those who will not be as you in your acceptances is so much coming from Hitler’s and the John Birch Society’s and now JBS in their newer name and garb as they called all who would oppose them as Commies. No one seems to have a right to be them if they oppose you and your kind. You are very typically programmed in this. By the way, in case you do not know from History Hitler and Fascist/Nazis were Far extreme Right and Commies are far extreme Left. They hate each other and still do today. America is somewhere in the center of them and both want to take us over, much the same as your kind does. Hitler was also kind of pro German people in his rap too, openly anyway, until he stole that country as your kind sound like today. The similarities are scary but you are known which is a great thing for our country and Liberty. I accept your political views for you even though I do not agree with them for myself because that is how Liberty works. It wont if we do not accept and respect other peoples views and Liberty for them as we want for ourselves. We wouldn’t deserve the respect. It is a Golden Rule thing, a concept I think you and your kind can not tolerate. I love how you do not see your associations with Nazis but instead put that on those who will not see it your ways. Very much of them you are in that too. You are right on cue, good for you.

            Once again, that was fun. Happy New Year.

          • mamba

            Do you enjoy having conversations with yourself macgyver? I was right from the very beginning that dialogue with you would be a complete waste of time and utterly meaningless. What is scary is that you don’t see the comparison between yourself and the Nazi Regime somehow believing that you are so benevolent and your party the same. What a joke, but not anything less to expect from one of the dumbed down masses who probably has never read Mao to begin with or know anything about him, just like you are entirely mistaken about Hitler and don’t even have a clue, or else you would know exactly how closely related speeches from Obama are to Mao’s et al.,…almost verbatim. But you would’t know because you buy the fluffy rhetoric and feel good speeches full of nothingness and believe the propaganda of the left that tells you exactly what kind of person I am who doesn’t support Obama, even though like most of what you type, you do’t have a clue, but I can tell you this: It isn’t because of hate macgyver, it isn’t because of race, it isn’t because of any conspiracy theories floating around, it is because of FACT. It is because of his absolute dismal failure as POTUS from the economy to his pathetic debates to the death of 4 Americans that you don’t even mention, because you can’t because there is no defense for their slaughter at the hands of a complete bumbeling fool on foreign politics. It is because he has been the most devisive, hateful, outright lying, self-absorbed, elitist, phony, self-aggrandizing, ego driven POTUS that I can ever remember and it is because he considers the American people fools who will buy his lies hook, line and sinker as long as he continues to give them what they want even if it will bankrupt our country, burden our children and future generations with debt and cripple our economy. He was able to reel you in but not nearly 50 million people like myself, who despite your best attempts to slander and to paint as hateful and “programmed” (LMAO) seem to have a very clear picture of who is being duped this time around. You wan’t to align yourself with the hate mongers, race baiters and liars, go ahead. Just know that history will not remember you favorably, because it never does. And you might address the real issues macgyver, you never did respond to the fact that this POTUS is hell bent on burying future generations in debt. But maybe you don’t care about that, since your only focus seems to be on getting your entitlements. Now that’s compassion for you. Do yourself a favor and watch the link below then tell me what is compassionate about the POTUS’s only plan of action.

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqoGORXAv2o

          • macgyver1948

            You have become a pure joke little boy. Enjoy yourself.

          • mamba

            so typical macgyver and the reason I rarely comment on this site; you and others like Holton and Jeff, can’t refute any of the real issues, more’s the pity. Maybe you will at least look at the video with an open mind; and so that you can at least stop with one assumption,,,,if you watch the video then you will know who I am; Blessings to you and your family.

          • Jeff

            ,”if you watch the video then you will know who I am”

            General Turgidson, I presume!

          • http://www.facebook.com/holton.brown Holton F. Brown

            Funny!!
            My favorite line from that movie: “Stop it, you know you can’t fight in the War Room!””

          • macgyver1948

            mamba… I always watch videos and read articles from both sides with an open mind. Then I go by what I feel from the stuff. Much of the time there is a lot of opinion and bias in them and with Right sided ones there is loads of opinion and less fact, often with edited and ridiculous attempts to prove their unrealistic points.

            For example I saw a photo of Mr and Mrs Obama pledging to the flag with their left hands over their hearts. The Right argument was since their wedding rings were on the left ring finger it was indisputable proof they had to be pledging in a commie way. Well, where were those on that pic when it was proven to be a decent Photo Shop job? I’ve seen many Right offered videos of things that were so poorly edited and reworked. Often I would find the real fuller version of that video and it offered a very different message from the Right’s “look at this, it proves Obama is this…” version.

            I looked at the video of Obama in Norfolk VA giving his “we don’t do it alone” speech and I listened to people like Wayne Allyn Root tell us a very different story about that speech and its message. It says to me when you use hate to guide you there is no point to the truth.

            But I go in with an open mind. Offer the link again and I will view it when I have time…

          • mamba

            BTW: mamba has nothing to do with snakes, but keep guessing. The assumptions the two of you make are very amusing :D

          • macgyver1948

            Why are you telling me mamba has nothing to do with snakes in your case, I didn’t mention that. But thank you for bringing it to my attention. But snake does suite you.

      • JC

        You need to do some homework Mr. Brown.
        Just because you don’t believe it, doesn’t mean it isn’t happening.
        I’m sure many Germans in 1938 would not have believed there were concentration camps already up and running too.

  • ONTIME

    Parity would work well, if WTP were to demand that all elected and appointed government officials be stripped of their tax paid security and had to furnish their own, then they too would be subjected to what WTP are asking for, they too would be subjected to the 2nd amendment as we want and therefore parity…..we pay these elected and appointed people in office far to much and allow them to rule instead of serve us their employer, it is high time they understand who they serve and regain our representation….

  • deerinwater

    You’re sound asleep when you hear a thump outside your bedroom door.

    Half-awake, and nearly paralyzed with fear, you hear muffled whispers.

    At least two people have broken into your house and are moving your way.

    With your heart pumping, you reach down beside your bed and pick up your shotgun.

    You rack a shell into the chamber, then inch toward the door and open it.

    In the darkness, you make out two shadows.

    One holds something that looks like a crowbar.

    When the intruder brandishes it as if to strike, you raise the shotgun and fire.

    The blast knocks both thugs to the floor.

    One writhes and screams while the second man crawls to the front door and lurches outside.

    As you pick up the telephone to call police, you know you’re in trouble.

    In your country, most guns were outlawed years
    before, and the few that are privately owned are so stringently regulated as to make them useless..

    Yours was never registered.

    Police arrive and inform you
    that the second burglar has died.

    They arrest you for First Degree Murder
    and Illegal Possession of a Firearm.

    When you talk to your attorney, he tells
    you not to worry: authorities will probably plea the case down to manslaughter.

    “What kind of sentence will I get?” you ask.

    “Only ten-to-twelve years,”
    he replies, as if that’s nothing.

    “Behave yourself, and you’ll be out in seven.”

    The next day, the shooting is the lead
    story in the local newspaper.

    Somehow, you’re portrayed as an eccentric vigilante while the two men you shot are represented as choirboys.

    Their friends and relatives can’t find
    an unkind word to say about them..

    Buried deep down in the article, authorities acknowledge that both “victims” have been arrested numerous times.

    But the next day’s headline says it all:

    “Lovable Rogue Son Didn’t Deserve to Die.”

    The thieves have been transformed from career criminals into Robin Hood-type pranksters..

    As the days wear on, the story takes wings.

    The national media picks it up,
    then the international media.

    The surviving burglar
    has become a folk hero.

    Your attorney says the thief is preparing
    to sue you, and he’ll probably win.

    The media publishes reports that your home has been burglarized several times in the past and that you’ve been critical of local police for their lack
    of effort in apprehending the suspects.

    After the last break-in, you told your neighbor that you would be prepared next time.

    The District Attorney uses this to allege
    that you were lying in wait for the burglars.

    A few months later, you go to trial.

    The charges haven’t been reduced,
    as your lawyer had so confidently predicted.

    When you take the stand, your anger at
    the injustice of it all works against you..

    Prosecutors paint a picture of you
    as a mean, vengeful man.

    It doesn’t take long for the jury to convict you of all charges.

    The judge sentences you to life in prison.

    This case really happened.

    On August 22, 1999, Tony Martin of Emneth, Norfolk , England , killed one burglar and wounded a second.

    In April, 2000, he was convicted
    and is now serving a life term..

    How did it become a crime to defend one’s own life in the once great British Empire ?

    It started with the Pistols Act of 1903.

    This seemingly reasonable law forbade selling pistols to minors or felons and established that handgun sales were to be made only to those who had a license.
    The Firearms Act of 1920 expanded licensing to include not only handguns but all firearms except shotguns..

    Later laws passed in 1953 and 1967 outlawed the carrying of any weapon by private citizens and mandated the registration of all shotguns.

    Momentum for total handgun confiscation began in earnest after the Hungerford mass shooting in 1987.Michael Ryan, a mentally disturbed man with a Kalashnikov rifle, walked down the streets shooting everyone he saw.

    When the smoke cleared, 17 people were dead.

    The British public, already de-sensitized by eighty years of “gun control”, demanded even tougher restrictions.
    (The seizure of all privately owned handguns was the objective even though Ryan used a rifle.)

    Nine years later, at Dunblane , Scotland ,
    Thomas Hamilton used a semi-automatic weapon to murder 16 children and a teacher at a public school.

    For many years, the media had portrayed all gun owners as mentally unstable, or worse, criminals.
    Now the press had a real kook with which to beat up law-abiding gun owners.
    Day after day, week after week, the media gave up all pretense of objectivity and demanded a total ban on all handguns.
    The Dunblane Inquiry, a few
    months later, sealed the fate of the
    few sidearms
    still owned by private citizens.

    During the years in which the British government incrementally took away most gun rights, the notion that a citizen had the right to armed self-defense came to be seen as vigilantism.
    Authorities refused to grant gun licenses to people who were threatened, claiming that self-defense was no longer considered a reason to own a gun.
    Citizens who shot burglars or robbers or rapists were charged while the real criminals were released.

    Indeed, after the Martin shooting, a police spokesman was quoted as saying,
    “We cannot have people take the law into their own hands.”

    All of Martin’s neighbors
    had been robbed numerous times,
    and several elderly people were severely injured in beatings by young thugs
    who had no fear of the consequences.
    Martin himself, a collector of antiques,
    had seen most of his collection
    trashed or stolen by burglars.

    When the Dunblane Inquiry ended,
    citizens who owned handguns
    were given three months to turn them over to local authorities.

    Being good British subjects,
    most people obeyed the law.
    The few who didn’t were visited by police
    and threatened with ten-year prison sentences if they didn’t comply.

    Police later bragged that they’d taken
    nearly 200,000 handguns from private citizens.

    How did the authorities know who had handguns?
    The guns had been registered and licensed.
    Kind of like cars. Sound familiar?

    WAKE UP AMERICA ; THIS IS WHY OUR FOUNDING FATHERS PUT THE SECOND AMENDMENT IN OUR CONSTITUTION.

    “…It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people’s minds..”
    –Samuel Adams

    • JC

      Which is exactly why we need to keep arms at hand.

  • http://none Jude

    Ok they want to take our guns away,hmmm next knives, axes,clubs, sticks and stones (people use these to kill) what about strangulation by ropes, hands, feet? What is our government going to do about them, cut them off so someone can’t choke or stomp another person to death? By taking the legal guns away the only people with guns will get them illegally. It will be okay if Obama and this administration have guns for protection , they want us law abiding citizens unarmed then they are in total control as Hitler did, Do we really want this, I say NO. We will be at the mercy of the administration that wants control of everyone and everything in our lives. They should consentrate on our economy, unemployment, national debts, stop sqaundering our tax dollars for vacations, aid to countries that hate us, stop giving the illegals the right to cross our borders illegally, no food stamps, housing assist.medical, soc.sec.benefits, education in our public schools, free college grants and more. what part of illegal do they not understand? When will this administration work for us? BTW Obama by executive order gave raises to himself, senate and congress.. I am wondering if he can do this legally? He is not their employer, we the people are. The Sup. court, Obama and this administration has broken Constitutional Law(s) nothing is done about it. I don’t think he considered it a raise but thanking them for letting him get by with what he has done to our country and a bribe to let him continue destroying our country and citizen rights.

    • MLR

      It isn’t just the dems that are for gun control, what about the Brady bill, Republicans all backed it. Why don’t you people realize it is both parties working together, that are out to F the average citizen, and give all they can to themselves and their rich buddies

      • JC

        Amen that!

  • http://www.facebook.com/holton.brown Holton F. Brown

    RE: BTW Obama by executive order gave raises to himself, senate and congress.””.
    What was the number on that Executive Order? Where was that published in the Congressional Record .. or is it something out of one Glenn Beck’s cocaine hazes?
    As for “knives, axes,clubs, sticks and stones (people use these to kill) what about strangulation by ropes, hands, feet” thoses items aren’t specifically manufacturered to kill people.. at least not from 50 or more feet away ….and vey few bugrlars or A&R types walk around with stones … and feet are big ..if wearing boots .. in hate crimes .. racists .. KKKers .. hammerskins … Nazis .. skinheaders .. etc …

  • http://www.facebook.com/holton.brown Holton F. Brown

    My bad on the executive order.. he did do so …
    just noticed in one of one of my other mailboxes ..
    cool the blasts .. admitting this error .. sorry ..

    • mamba

      Gee Holton, maybe you should actually listen to Glenn Beck instead of continuing with your libel and slander. Might be that you are quite wrong about a lot of things. Are you really surprised that the self-aggrandizing, elitist, phony in the WH would give himself and his cronies a raise! Someone’s got to pay for all his parties, vacations and strutting around like a celebrity. LMAO Oh, but he really “cares” about the little people, doesn’t he. hahaha and ha

      • Jeff

        Mamba:

        Does your nurse know you’re up this late?

  • margolise@aol.com

    You had me 1000+ % up until this line: “Should we ensure that mentally ill people cannot purchase guns? Of course.” If someone is deemed a threat to self or others by all means lock him up and keep him there until reasonable medical opinion has pronounced him cured, but are we really going to deny the right of self-defense to anyone who has been diagnosed with depression or an eating disorder? The majority of people with some kind of mental illness are not violent. The answer is to keep the ones who are off the street – not to have government begin looking into medical or psychiatric records. Just sayin’.

  • http://www.facebook.com/holton.brown Holton F. Brown

    You might all want to check the: USA Today/Gallup Poll. Dec. 19-22, 2012. N=1,038 adults nationwide. Margin of error ± 4.
    While there are more that feel ownership controls shud be kept where they are .. a majority feels there shud be gunshow controls.. limits on mag sizes.. etc ..backround checks .. etc ..
    as for the crimes abated by gun display “polls” .. it might be pointed out one of those polls is 22 years old … others are still well into the 90′s ..
    O would have posted the full poll here but it would take up wy ttoo much space

  • http://www.facebook.com/holton.brown Holton F. Brown

    To vicki:
    As some other liberal pointed out (possibly in this very thread), budgets are created in the HOUSE and then agreed to by the Senate and House. Both of which were in democrat hands since early 2007.

    ahh might have missed this ..but the house has been controlled by the republicans since 2008 .. you might have missed it but a guy namedc bohner .. an alcoholic with a heavy suntan from ohio is the speaker of the house .. and a guy named eric cantor .. the house leader ..both are republicans ……

    • macgyver1948

      Holton F Brown…. Yes, many of us knew this but I wanted to thank you for reminding us. Let’s also remember that much of the budget and spending came from the adim just prior to Obama’s first term and much of the time it takes up to a few years for a budget and spending to take affect. So, we blame Obama and the Dems for what was started before him. Easy to do when you are told to hate him from even before he took office, before he could affect anything.

      “bohner“ is trying so hard to appease his owners at our expense and cantor is a super phony… Yes, they are TPGOP owned and also controlled by the N Pledge, as over 270 GOP in congress are. Who are they really representing through their office?

    • Elaine

      Holton F. Brown

      http://history.house.gov/Institution/Party-Divisions/Party-Divisions/

      The 110th and 111th HR were Dem. controlled. That was 2007 – 2011.

      The Rep. didn’t gain control back until 2011.

      So, most of the time that BHO didn’t have to have a budget was under the Dem. party. The last 2 years of Bush’s term were under the Dems. making up the budget for him and with BHO and the rest of the HS making sure that the numbers went wild, even voting for the war that was then blamed entirely on Bush.

      • Smilee

        you ignore the filibusters in the senate which in effect vetoed Democratic bills so many did not become law. The Democrats only got laws passed when the GOP allowed it. Bush got blamed because he lied to get that vote in congress and he did.

        • BR549

          Smilee wrote: “you ignore the filibusters in the senate which in effect vetoed Democratic bills so many did not become law. The Democrats only got laws passed when the GOP allowed it. Bush got blamed because he lied to get that vote in congress and he did.”

          This constant bickering back and forth, “My party is better than your party” crap gets us absolutely no where. When is everyone going to realize that the political undercurrent beneath BOTH main parties has been globalism. It’s been globalism for decades, and globalism means the intended dissolution of the US Constitution.

          You people can’t have it both ways. You either understand what is taking place or you’re just another bump in the road. The Democrats rail against Bush and the Republicans, and right they should. The Bush family is no friend to the American citizens. Millions of people died as a result of that lying piece of trash.

          But now Bush the Idiot has passed the globalist baton off to Obama in the UN’s race to bring the US to its knees ……….. and you people are still arguing about petty party ideologies. Get over it. Neither of the two parties possess enough members with integrity enough to correct the problems of previous Congressional sabotage.

          Legislatures have been selling out their own country in bits and pieces for well over a century, now. Some people have seen it coming, too many people refuse to acknowledge it because they can’t get their pea brain wrapped around the enormity of it, and most people are too willing to just go home and park their ass in a BarcaLounger at the end of the day because they had a rough time at work. And frankly, that’s EXACTLY what the globalists have been expecting you to do ……. nothing except argue amongst yourselves, completely missing what’s going on.

          The problem isn’t Republicans OR Democrats, it’s stupid people who still believe that either of those two parties still possess any philosophical ideologies.

          • macgyver1948

            BR549… Calvin Coolidge was perhaps the first US president to speak of globalism back in the 1920s so it has been with us for decades. They have an unfair head state on us. Maybe it is inevitable but for countries such as the US it will go down hard if they tamper too much with the Constitution. I for one will go down swinging if the Constitution is messed with. Just thought I would add some 2 cents again.

          • BR549

            MacGyver wrote: “Calvin Coolidge was perhaps the first US president to speak of globalism back in the 1920s so it has been with us for decades.”

            Yes, and while the libtards are so willing to cave in and be dominated by sociopaths, the fact remains that globalism may ultimately be the direction we must in as a species, but we need to evolve there, not be pushed there. The difference is that the willingness to collectively contribute towards a one world scenario would be the result of understanding why various ethnicities, religions, cults or whatever are still needing to identify as subgroups within the species.

            Already, as author Holly Sklar has put it, the globalists have been hard at work trying to carve up any identification that populations may use to keep themselves identifiable. If these meathead Syrian rebels understood what was really going on, they’d be using those stinger missiles to bring down the planes of the Bilderbergs, CFR, and Trilateralists. But because, like the cognitively challenged Obama and Bush supporters over here, they will continue to to see the US as being the problem and waste all their energies keeping us fighting amongst ourselves.

            Coolidge was a popular president back then. I wonder if his view on globalism was one of eventual human evolution ….. or one of conspiratorial fascist domination, like we have now.

          • Jeff

            One could almost believe you actually know something, but then you use a word like “libtard” and you give yourself away. Kind of like the “genius” criminal who is toying with the police by writing them letters where he somehow uses his address as one of the clues. Intelligent, thoughtful people don’t use terms like that and they don’t throw around conspiracy theories without at least explaining WTF they’re talking about.

          • BR549

            Jeff wrote: “Intelligent, thoughtful people don’t use terms like [libtards] and they don’t throw around conspiracy theories without at least explaining WTF they’re talking about.”

            I HAVE been explaining it, along with others, but you’ve been so busy defending yourself that no one can help you. For Christ’s sake, even the History Channel now uses the USS Maine as a classic example of a false flag. Our entrances into WWI and WWII are now considered to have been false flags, even the Gulf of Tonkin.

            So, then, Jeff, what do you call the Conspiracy Theories after they are no longer just theories?

          • Jeff

            I know the Government lies. I grew up during Viet Nam, for Pete’s sake. But the Gulf of Tonkin and the Hearst lies that got us into the Spanish-American War and the Bush-Cheney lies that got us into Iraq were discovered immediately. You’re hinting at massive conspiracies that have gone on for hundreds of years. You’re going to tell me that not one member of the Bilderberg or Rockefeller families would have spilled the beans after all these decades and centuries? If you want someone outside JBS to believe such massive conspiracies, you better have more than vague accusations.

          • BR549

            Jeff wrote: “You’re going to tell me that not one member of the Bilderberg or Rockefeller families would have spilled the beans after all these decades and centuries?”

            There are a couple of moles in the Bilderberg Group that a man named Jim Tucker has brought to light. Also, Daniel Estulin has a good book on that same group. The Grahams (Washington Post) had been openly congratulated in the Bilderbergs for successfully keeping the group out of public scrutiny.

            Look, I’m not saying that every piece of CT news is legitimate, but then we no longer have the luxury of believing that past stalwarts like Cronkite were always going to tell us the truth.

            50 years ago, if someone accused Santa Claus of being a pedophile, they probably would have been tarred and feathered the accuser and run him out of town. Now, the public wants all the details and to know what news agency first broke the story.

            I’ll say it again, Jeff, I’ve given you some links and other resources …. and you keep asking the same questions. For some people, it’s enough for the bulb to come on, but I guess I haven’t found the right link for you. You seem like too smart a guy not to be getting this stuff. When it comes, you’ll be livid.

            As far as the Bilderbergs, it isn’t just that group. The Trilateralists and the CFR are just different smaller “mafia families” that function under the same umbrella. The other day, I was listening to a CFR meeting from not too long ago, where Granger Morgan of Carnagie Mellon had stated about geo-engineering, “First of all, of course, there is a lot of money [tens of millions of dollars, he later states] getting spent to make sure that a very substantial portion of the public stays totally confused about this. And, I mean, it’s been really quite pernicious.”

            So, while we have these globalist brain trusts playing tinkertoy with the atmosphere and the Earth’s magnetic field, we have experts like Rosalind Peterson with a viewpoint that that doesn’t work for the globalist agenda: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Yg8FBnGXIk

            This is just one issue. Guns are another. So is population relocation under Agenda21. All of these are on the globalist agenda; and as I said before, all you have to do is start digging. I’m not going to selectively pick and choose data to try to bring you up to speed; it’s out there if you want it, and like everyone else, you’ll just have to find out how much you need to filter it for it to make sense for you. Glen Beck, for example, has jumped on the Agenda21 bandwagon, along with the old school hard core conspiracy theorists, but then the guy has turned into an oil lobby shill and is seriously supporting fracking.

          • http://www.facebook.com/holton.brown Holton F. Brown

            ww2 was a false flag?? .. yeah .. i’ve heard about Pearl Harbor but what exactly could we have done to stave that off .. and what about the Phillipines and wake island?? we could have prevented that how??

          • macgyver1948

            Holton… We could have evacuated the areas around Pearl Harbor and sent planes out to bomb the Japanese ships I suppose. Other than that I am not sure what we could have done differently, especially since we weren’t really militarily ready at the time, but it was the thing needed to get us into WW2, which may have been Roosevelt’s reason for not warning anyone assuming he knew. We should have been in WW2 long before the Japaneses invited us and I read Hitler was pissed at the Japanese for that because he wasn’t ready for us at the time. Fighting the Russians on the East and us on the West wasn’t a good strategy for Hitler. Hitler, it was estimated, was ready for a full scale invasion of the US not all that many months Pearl Harbor with his many subs, and other plans, off our coasts which were there for some time.

            By the way, wealthy American industrialists and some big business kept us out of WW2, through their controlled government officials, for as long as they could because they were doing big business with Hitler. The more important thing is for business to flourish. Nothing in that ever really changes.

          • http://www.facebook.com/holton.brown Holton F. Brown

            evacuate them to where? also .. first we would have had to find the japanese .. and high level bombers didn’t do dick against mobile targewts .. and .. that still doesn’t take care of the Phillipines, wake and aleutions.. and therre was still a sttrong anti-war sentiment … lead by wilkie and the re3publicans ..

          • macgyver1948

            Holton… I know evacuating would have been a problem so I suggested what might have been considered. Who knows, if Roosevelt really knew of the attack in advance, including where the elusive Japanese fleet might have been then maybe. I don’t know so I am only speculating. But I do believe we should have entered WW2 maybe 2 or 3 years before we did. I know there was loads of anti war sentiment before Pearl but what would have happened to that anti war sentiment if Hitler had the time he wanted to invade our shores? What happened to it when the Japaneses bombed Pearl? I am not so surprised it was the Republicans who seem to have traditionally been supporting Big Business over us, as they more so do today, to keep us out of WW2.

            The Japanese were conquerers and invaders long before in history so taking Philippines, Wake and Aleutians was just normal for them. As I said in my last comment on this the US was not prepared for a major war before Pearl Harbor but we made ourselves ready because of it – after it. Those unable-to-do-dick high level bombers at the time were just more proof. We could have built better tech air craft if we wanted to before Pearl and jump into the war to stop Hitler and help Europe as they begged us to. Isolationism was unrealistic even then but more so as time goes by but these days we have to stop being the police for the world without justification. Going after terrorists who have attacked us is a must but we should stay out of the real estate and control business outside the US. Defending our international friends is a good thing too when they ask and need it. I bet the Ron Paul supporters would not agree.

          • Jeff

            The isolationists STILL think it was a mistake for us to get into WWII, like we had a choice. Pat Buchanan wrote a book about it a few years ago. You have to be really dedicated to the cause of isolationism to position yourself in opposition to WWII. Now, if we had stayed out of WWI, there might not have been a WWII. That I see as a legitimate argument.

          • http://www.facebook.com/holton.brown Holton F. Brown

            no, Hitler had his eyes on us for war in 1946 .. his influence in latin america .. particularly mexico ..(a rerun of the Zimmermam telegram) ((you do remember that?)) to help germany by promising them lost spanish lands .. also .. Pat Buchanan is a crypto-nazi .. says holocaust never happened … seond world war still would have happene3d due to invasion of phillipines… wake island and aleuteons … plus sub attacks on oregon and california in 1942 .. the movie 1942 wasn’t all bulls— afterall .. and not to be forgotten were the sabateurs landed on the easr coast .. and the sleeper cells aligned with the German American Bund which was headed by a german citizen who was a lower level commander of the SA .. which was wiped out by the SS in the Night of the Long Knives .. he was also jailed for a while for stealing monies and being a bit on the limp wrist side..if you get the swish..

          • http://www.facebook.com/holton.brown Holton F. Brown

            staying out of WW1 would have benefitted russia .. since it went commie .. the central powers … germany, austria hungary .. the turks and the remainder of the ottoman empire would have gone commie also .. for economic reasons .. which would have been lots of fun …soooooo..instead of europe being mostly facist in late 1930′s ..they would have been mostly communist would have made pat buchanan mostly suicidal LOL ..
            and not so funny would have been the total extermination of armenians and all Romany (gypsies)

          • macgyver1948

            Holton… Yes in deed the commies would have taken over more real estate if we hadn’t participated in WW1. And they might have eventually defeated Hitler without us, we can’t be sure, if we didn’t get into WW2, I still feel we needed to get into WW2 much sooner than we did. So we defeated the evil of the Nazis with the help of the Soviets and we Allies gave the Soviets way too much land. Aren’t we cool with the “victors sharing the spoils”.

            Pat Buchanan and other idiots such as McCarthy and the cross dresser FBI leader wouldn’t be the only ones who would commit suicide over the Soviets if we hadn’t gotten into WW2 at all. JBS, and their descendant party/group and others like them today would have too. I do not think anyone would really miss their anti Constitutional ways if they had. Again, we unfortunately needed to get into WW2 sooner to obviously defeat Hitler but also to get a better handle on the Soviets.. Those extreme Right and Left threats were huge problems. Now we still have some remnants of each internally. There is a hint in this paragraph as to who some of them are but I wont go into it now…

          • macgyver1948

            Jeff… If we did as the Isolationists wanted, as well as some US Industrialists and some big corporations too (Business before people), by not getting into WW2 we would be the German state Hitler felt he deserved. I would not be here writing this because, well, I bet you know why. Isolationism will never work as it may have a long time ago because the world is getting way too small for that. We shouldn’t be the cops for the world and we shouldn’t go in to a country to own and control it but we need to go after terrorists when they attack and help our international friends when they need us and they ask. Ron Paul would get us done in if we do as his isolationism would suggest.

            We defeated the enemy in WW1 and I bet we didn’t foresee the madness of Hitler on the horizon. Maybe if we had seen Fascism spread in Europe, from Italy to Germany and beyond, we might have stuck around longer. We did more so after WW2 and our presence in Europe is still there watching the Soviets. Oh wait, didn’t a curtain and a wall come down? Even so there are still threats so Isolationism would bring them to our dinner tables.

          • http://www.facebook.com/holton.brown Holton F. Brown

            well .. we could have ignored the japanese attacks in china.. and the attacks on wake, alaska, phillipines, hawaii.. etc.. and the german attacks on east coast USA and marked ourselves as the dominent kittyycat of the world (can’t say p-ssies) of the world …

          • macgyver1948

            Holton… Yeah we could have ignored all that, especially the attacks on Pearl and the many Nazi Subs off our east coast but we wouldn’t have helped free Europe nor would we have preserved America. It is more fun this way than anything Hitler had in mind for us. And the Japanese had plans of their own for the White House Lawn. Could you just see the Emperor of Japan and Hitler doing their own divide-us-up party. Yep, we would have been some kind of kitty cat if we became Isolationists again. That is not realistic today either.

          • Jeff

            My understanding is that we knew the Japanese had to attack and we knew the approximate timing of such an attack. We were squeezing Japan’s access to oil in the Pacific and we knew when they were getting to a critical period. What I don’t think was foreseen was the location of the attack. I think the attack anticipated was on an island much closer to Japan. It is unfortunate that it was not until well after the War that journalists really questioned the official line. The result is we have stories that become unquestioned folklore without necessarily being true. Many of the decisions made during the war were made for political, not military, reasons. The biggest myth of all may well be the reasons for, and the impact of, Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Oliver Stone’s new history series on Showtime goes into the whole question in depth. He may not be right, but he’s backed up by historians and definitely offers a different view.

          • http://www.facebook.com/holton.brown Holton F. Brown

            wha’s the myth? .. operations olympic and coronet would have resulted in casaulties to british, american and anzac forces of close to one million .. of course the japannese would have sustained closer to 5 million with the differnces being the allies woulds have lost men .. while the japanese woulkd have lost men .. women children an old folks ..tyhe civilian population was told the amereicans were devils .. who would rape.. then kill woman .. butcher the children and emasculate (cut off the nuts) of the men ..also .. on the allied side ..there would be the joy of machine-gunnibg banzai chrging civilians ..
            and themn there was the little problem of threatened mutinies by european theatre troops who were (for some strange reaason) tired of fighting their own war since late 1942..not to mnention italy and post-noremandy ..
            also we didn’t want russia getting iunto the pacific war actively since the russkis had already told us they wanted to do to japan what was done in Europe but moist significantly what became known as the Warsaw bloc ..and we all know how much fun that was (Re: Cold War) ..
            as for the casualty reports .. i have in my personal library General Marshall’s report on the strategic aspects on Operations Olympic and Coronet … and the general’s report to the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the President on those oiperations ..it noted that even if we pulled it off .. the war would not end until sometime in 1947..if even then ..
            by the way .. even after the second bomb .. there was an attempt at a military coup to overthrow the emperor and put in a puppet .. but ..and a bit surprisingly.. Tojo sed “No way.”” actually it was probably the nipponese equivelent of: “is f—— crazy? Horohitro is God. noway we frig with him”

          • Jeff

            I think it is a myth that the A-bombs prevented an invasion of Japan. The Japanese were beaten and were interested in surrender. They would not agree to unconditional surrender under the terms offered which they thought might lead to execution of the Emperor. The Japanese appeared more concerned about the Russians entering the war than about the A-bombs we dropped. Had Truman agreed earlier to let them keep the Emperor, the war might have ended months earlier without the bomb being used. Perhaps Truman wanted to gain the upper hand in the coming battle with the USSR, but Stalin already knew about the A-bomb.

            Obviously, during wartime things are fluid and it is often difficult to say A lead to B. But I think the orthodox view about the needed invasion and the a-bomb as savior are way overblown.

          • http://www.facebook.com/holton.brown Holton F. Brown

            don’ think so about keeping the emperor .. the japanese not only wanted to keep horohito as emperor .. they still wanted him as a diety.. and head of government and state ,, something that doug mac arthur sed “no effing way” ..

          • macgyver1948

            Jeff… you could be right that we would have won the war in the Pacific anyway in time but the A bombs did do that sooner, not that I like the paradox. We really do not know but in the films of the surrender the Emperor looked a bit depressed and he might have sacrificed everyone for a last ditch attempt at a win and his honor if it weren’t for the A bombs. Gotta protect one’s honor.

          • macgyver1948

            Jeff… Yeah, I know, the Japanese had it in for us for several decades for how we usurped control, maybe even before Tom Cruise was The Last Samurai, LOL. Very good movie by the way. There are a lot of secrets governments keep for whatever purpose but I think Roosevelt really saw that we needed to join in WW2 before it was to late but who really knows.

            Lots of folklore, once started and past on, take on lives of their own. More reason we cannot really know. You said that many of the decisions were made for political purposes and not military. This is true all to often. During the Vietnam War I saw there were decisions on battle plans that were made in DC and I have a feeling that is one of the reasons we lost that war. I know the decision to stop air and ground support for our troops and friendly villages happened a few times when we knew there would be major assaults by the enemy. One was done by at least one of our presidents, I think Ford. Hoe Chi Min had a nice trail until our troops in bordering countries along the trail, and in and out of Nam, were told to forget support but they had to keep the faith anyway.

            It happens and in that case it wasn’t the last time an American president broke a promise to the host country we were supporting. You may remember George Bush sr also cost so many Iraqi lives in the first Gulf war with his lie and broken promise. It is no wonder why many Iraqis wouldn’t trust little bush in the current invasion after 911. But little bush lied about so many things. Cover-ups and lies are a way of life I guess for many politicians. I know I jumped from WW2 but Vietnam was when I was in and it got hard to trust our own leaders so I brought that up since it doesn’t seem to get better. By the way, we almost lost the WW2 war in the Pacific if it weren’t for the A bomb and man I hate saying that.

          • macgyver1948

            Br549… I know globalization might be inevitable. It is like a little snow ball falling down a hill growing along the way and we might not be able to stop it. I say I am against it if it means destroying, or even weakening, our Constitution even as I see the inevitability. Do you really think it is only the “libtards” (and does it make you feel stronger and more mighty and wiser to go for the insult?) who are working for globalization? If you do do your really think you are Right about that?

            Very wealthy people in general might want it, not all but many. Those blinded by power, on both sides of the aisle, might just see more power and money (control) coming to them if we have one world government. There is so much going on here, with the TPGOP and how they work, to turn this into The Government Of The Corporate People so that might be the kind of One World Government they want to support their global interests, such as Walmart. See, it is not just the “libtards” but in that most “libtards” do not want this.

  • robert

    I “taught” I saw a putty cat. Damn, those pencils misspelling those crazy words again. We need to ban pencils.

  • Bert Cundle Sr.

    How Smart is a Gun?
    Does the Bullet know when it is hitting a right spot?
    People are responsible for our actions! NOT our Thoughts! Not responsible for the Actions of others! Not to Punish for posibilities.
    Our Government is so Corrupt, that the public reflects Athority, or Depression from it!

  • J.W. Howard

    I just posted a Petition to the White House sight and for those who would like to sign it I’ll post the url here.

    https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/charges-any-official-or-politician-who-brings-gun-control-congress-or-senate-grounds-treason/gsQyfMCW

    Please read it if nothing else, and let your friends know where they can sign.

    Thank You

    John W Howard

  • http://gillysrooms.blogspot.com Gillysrooms from Australia

    I wonder if the Russians & the Chinese are reading these comments and laughting at all these silly arguments of having security guards everywhere. I bet they never though the USA would end up being worse than Communist Russia and China. And who was the Turkey in your government who agreed to death duties on people who die with more than $5 million? Taxing people while they makiing their money while working and then let them borrow the rest till death and then pay 55% on death…another communist idea. ONLY IN AMERICA does this logic seem to exist.

  • Boyd Sharp

    Guns may or may not keep me from becoming a victim of a crime. They might or might not stop government tyranny from stealing the last shred of my freedom. But a gun will 100% guarantee I don’t go quietly. Or alone. Anything that makes a bad person stop and think twice about messing with me and maybe moving along to someone else? And if that someone else is one of the barry boy voter freeloaders? That is called a win-win.

  • http://www.facebook.com/holton.brown Holton F. Brown

    well nmamba .. i didn’t mind listening/watching glenn on Faux news until he got fired and went to internet subscribe only ..and haven’t read his latest ghosted book .. he went from 4 million fans (free) to less than 400,000 pay to get ..maybe he can make a deal with dick morris and karl rove to share his web site ..(both of them fired too) …

    • mamba

      Facts are important things HFB. Maybe you should try and use them, at least once in a while. Have a Happy New Year.

  • http://www.facebook.com/holton.brown Holton F. Brown

    as for the UN taking us over.. do you look under the bed every night to see if a Red Dawn infiltrator is hiding there??
    The UN had problems in Iraq and kosovo.. not to mention Palestine and Africa … ya really think they can take over a country of 310 million people?? That’s delusional….??
    i think black helicopters look cool ,, but the Tiger Match polour schemes are even better…

    • BR549

      Holton wrote: “as for the UN taking us over.. do you look under the bed every night to see if a Red Dawn infiltrator is hiding there??”

      I can safely assume then that you’re not the brain trust that Jeffy needs to back him up.
      And, I can tell you haven’t even bothered to look into the UN’s Agenda21 Biodiversity Map. which has nothing to do with biodiversity, but rather US population reldistribution. Where did I get this information? From a regional planner working for the state. He had a copy of the UN’s book and although the online copy of the map appears to be fuzzy in detail, the color regions and the legend describe their intentions in enough detail.

      You guys gotta get away from the video games and start doing some actual RESEARCH.
      HELLO!!! Anyone home?

  • http://www.facebook.com/holton.brown Holton F. Brown

    BR .. Agenda 212 is an admitted book of fiction .. it is a novel .. giving credence to Beck’s ghost written work is like saying On The Beach .. or Brave New World are historical texts ..
    and yeah .. I am home after spending over 70 years of deep interest and and lesser participation in local, national and even world events …and don’t need somebody like you to tell me about the silliness of A21..

    • BR549

      Holton wrote: “Agenda 212 is an admitted book of fiction .. it is a novel .. giving credence to Beck’s ghost written work is like saying On The Beach .. or Brave New World are historical texts ..”

      Really, so the state’s regional planner must have been off his rocker when he was explaining the concatenation of land use corridors tying an increasing number of land trusts together.

      Screw Beck, BTW, that nitwit has been a day late and a dollar short on all of this. When Bush was in office, Beck was busy waving the American flag and shining his lapel pin, and now when it’s fashionable to suspect elites and the international banking families, he’s up there pontificating to the masses. It was the same with Limbaugh, Hannity, and that idiot O’Reilly. They’re all media prostitutes.

      And let’s not forget Executive Order 13528, the Council of Governors. I know you don’t believe that is in place either, but here it is:
      http://proliberty.com/observer/20100221.html

  • http://www.facebook.com/holton.brown Holton F. Brown

    tthermite ..you of course know what makes up therrmite.. easily made of common elements .. easily found anywhere after a major incident involving large buildings falling down .. by the way .. what are the names of those 1,700 physicists?? .. and just how were those shaped charges set on those beams .. like when .. and by whom …
    and i’ve seen plenty of pix of the beams a Fresh kills .. did’s notice diagonal fracture patterns ,,,anyway .. after dropping several hundred feet .. those beams would be pretty f’ed up …as for why were the beams segregated .. tthere’s not many places to put a few million pounds of metak debris .. PLUS .. the officials wanted aq place where the environmental impact would be limited (asbestos, arsenic, etc) and they didn’t want a bunch of opportunistic anal sephincters raiding the place for souvenirs ..
    and yes .. I di see “pocket change” and founds it to be mis-informed ..self servig off the wall BS … which has been knocked down be several documentarries and magazine and newspaper articles ,..
    oh.. and the producers of POC have make corrections in subsewquent issues …
    and finally .. if it was a true conspiracy .. there’s no way in hell that at least one member wouldn’t have spilled their guts to the liberal media fior a heavy payday …\

    • BR549

      “Penny Change”? I never saw it. I don’t do conspiracies; I do facts.

      As far as the 1,700+ members of the Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth:
      http://www.ae911truth.org/

      I’ll let you make a fool of yourself arguing with them.

      • http://www.facebook.com/holton.brown Holton F. Brown

        The Brookman report has already beenm debunked by numerous autorities .. and you still haven’t answered my challenge on charge placement ….

    • BR549

      Holton wrote: “you of course know what makes up therrmite.. easily made of common elements ”

      Yes, Holton, we all know that thermite can be made from various ratios of aluminum powder and either red or black iron oxide powder, BUT it was the high temperature compounding with sulfur that had raised a number of eyebrows.

      http://www.ae911truth.org/en/component/search/?searchword=thermite&ordering=&searchphrase=all

      • http://www.facebook.com/holton.brown Holton F. Brown

        i ask for the last time .. who .. when and where were those alledged charges placed ..??

        • BR549

          Holton wrote: “i ask for the last time .. who .. when and where were those alledged charges placed ..??”

          If you want to know where the charges were placed, look at the damn video, because it has testimonies from a number of experts, first responders, demolition people, engineers, and they give you a sense of where those charges were placed. And somewhere in the video is one of the photos taken with the classic 45 cuts through the girders.

          So, for the last time, get off your butt, stop being so lazy, and quit asking people to spoon feed you the facts slow enough so that you can understand them. The information, enough of it, is out there. The question is more of whether you’re ready to hear the answer.

          http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/thermite/explosive_residues.html#thermite_demolition

          People have tried to debunk the “45 degree cut photo” by dismissing it as being an oxyacetylene blow torch cut, but what moron in their right mind would spend all that time cutting something so precisely at a 45, when it would have taken far less time to cut it on a 90? It kinda reminds of “how many 9/11 believers does it take to change a lightbulb?”

  • red neck

    Ah… the ole I should not have the God given right to protect myself debate.

    Well maybe king obama will?

    • http://www.facebook.com/holton.brown Holton F. Brown

      God given right?? as a gun owner myself.. I’d like to know what part of scriptures gives me the right ..by God .. to pack heat??

  • Elaine

    The Latest Murder Statistics for the World From the World Health Organization

    Posted on January 3, 2013 by onemansthoughts

    Murders Per 100,000 Citizens:

    Honduras 91.6
    El Salvador 69.2
    Cote d’lvoire 56.9
    Jamaica 52.2
    Venezuela 45.1
    Belize 41.4
    US Virgin Islands 39.2
    Guatemala 38.5
    Saint Kits and Nevis 38.2
    Zambia 38.0
    Uganda 36.3
    Malawi 36.0
    Lesotho 35.2
    Trinidad and Tobago 35.2
    Colombia 33.4
    South Africa 31.8
    Congo 30.8
    Central African Republic 29.3
    Bahamas 27.4
    Puerto Rico 26.2
    Saint Lucia 25.2
    Dominican Republic 25.0
    Tanzania 24.5
    Sudan 24.2
    Saint Vincent and the Grenadines 22.9
    Ethiopia 22.5
    Guinea 22.5
    Dominica 22.1
    Burundi 21.7
    Democratic Republic of the Congo 21.7
    Panama 21.6
    Brazil 21.0
    Equatorial Guinea 20.7
    Guinea-Bissau 20.2
    Kenya 20.1
    Kyrgyzstan 20.1
    Cameroon 19.7
    Montserrat 19.7
    Greenland 19.2
    Angola 19.0
    Guyana 18.6
    Burkina Faso 18.0
    Eritrea 17.8
    Namibia 17.2
    Rwanda 17.1
    Mexico 16.9
    Chad 15.8
    Ghana 15.7
    Ecuador 15.2
    North Korea 15.2
    Benin 15.1
    Sierra Leone 14.9
    Mauritania 14.7
    Botswana 14.5
    Zimbabwe 14.3
    Gabon 13.8
    Nicaragua 13.6
    French Guiana 13.3
    Papua New Guinea 13.0
    Swaziland 12.9
    Bermuda 12.3
    Comoros 12.2
    Nigeria 12.2
    Cape Verde 11.6
    Grenada 11.5
    Paraguay 11.5
    Barbados 11.3
    Togo 10.9
    Gambia 10.8
    Peru 10.8
    Myanmar 10.2
    Russia 10.2
    Liberia 10.1
    Costa Rica 10.0
    Nauru 9.8
    Bolivia 8.9
    Mozambique 8.8
    Kazakhstan 8.8
    Senegal 8.7
    Turks and Caicos Islands 8.7
    Mongolia 8.7
    British Virgin Islands 8.6
    Cayman Islands 8.4
    Seychelles 8.3
    Madagascar 8.1
    Indonesia 8.1
    Mali 8.0
    Pakistan 7.8
    Moldova 7.5
    Kiribati 7.3
    Guadeloupe 7.0
    Haiti 6.9
    Timor-Leste 6.9
    Anguilla 6.8
    Antigua and Barbuda 6.8
    Lithuania 6.6
    Uruguay 5.9
    Philippines 5.4
    Ukraine 5.2
    Estonia 5.2
    Cuba 5.0
    Belarus 4.9
    Thailand 4.8
    Suriname 4.6
    Laos 4.6
    Georgia 4.3
    Martinique 4.2

    All The Countries Above America Have 100% Gun Bans Or Are Close To It.

    And United States 4.2

  • Elaine

    Well, I see Jeff and Steve Dickheader (macgyver) are here “exchanging ideas” and protecting our freedom of speech and our constitution like they so proclaim to be doing with their bashing of everyone who believes differently than they do.

    It seems that I am a thorn in their sides since they keep mentioning me everywhere. :-)

    Keep of the good bashing of people who love freedom and who know what it really is, you two. (Notice, Steve, that’s two for the number 2.)

    Steve is a writer who doesn’t know the difference between too and two. I think he even believes he’s a writer of freedom and democracy.

    • macgyver1948

      Elaine… Evil like you would be a thron… :-)…

  • Elaine

    mamba says:
    January 1, 2013 at 12:45 am

    Do you enjoy having conversations with yourself macgyver? I was right from the very beginning that dialogue with you would be a complete waste of time and utterly meaningless. What is scary is that you don’t see the comparison between yourself and the Nazi Regime somehow believing that you are so benevolent and your party the same. What a joke, but not anything less to expect from one of the dumbed down masses
    ~~~~~~~~~~
    Bravo!! You hit the nail on the head all the way around.

    • macgyver1948

      Elaine… “Evil like you is a thorn.”. Remember that. And mamba seems to be your clone.

  • Elaine

    The Constitution shall never be construed… to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms.
    —-Samuel Adams, Signer, Declaration of Independence

  • Elaine

    THIS WILL BE THE RESULT OR WORSE OF OUR RELENTING TO THE U.S. GOVERNMENT ON THEIR GUN CONTROL MEASURE. !

    Australian Gun Law Update
    From: Ed Chenel, A police officer in Australia

    Hi Yanks, I thought you all would like to see the real figures from Down Under.

    It has now been 12 months since gun owners in Australia were forced by a new law to
    surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed by our own government, a program costing Australia taxpayers more than $500 million dollars.

    The first year results are now in:
    Australia-wide, homicides are up 6.2 percent,
    Australia-wide, assaults are up 9.6 percent;
    Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent)!

    In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now up 300 percent.(Note that
    while the law-abiding citizens turned them in, the criminals did not and criminals still possess their guns!)
    While figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady decrease in armed robbery with firearms, this has changed drastically upward in the past 12 months, since the criminals now are guaranteed that their prey is unarmed. There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults of the elderly, while the resident is at home.

    Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public safety has decreased, after such monumental effort and expense was expended in ‘successfully ridding Australian society of guns….’ You won’t see this on the American evening news or hear your governor or
    members of the State Assembly disseminating this information.

    The Australian experience speaks for itself. Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws affect only the law-abiding citizens.

    Take note Americans, before it’s too late! Will you be one of the sheep to turn yours in?
    WHY? You will need it.

    FORWARD TO EVERYONE ON YOUR EMAIL LIST. [I DID] DON’T BE A MEMBER OF THE SILENT MAJORITY. BE ONE OF THE VOCAL MINORITY WHO WON ‘T STAND FOR NONSENSE

    • http://www.facebook.com/holton.brown Holton F. Brown

      You might want to check the Snopes website entry on Australian Crime Stats on this “reference” …as to the validity of this post
      and by the way .. the continuing reference that the vpublic needs the Second Amendment to occasionally overthrow the tyrantical government .. buried in the main body of the Constitution is a full article mentioning something called “treason”….

  • http://gillysrooms.blogspot.com Gilly from Australia

    Many of the mentally ill who own guns were not mentally ill nor were they convicted criminals when they purchased their guns…so how will you assess their mental illness before they commit a crime ? When one considers that 1 in 5 persons experiences some form of mental illness during their lifetime ie 62 million potential people who should not own a gun which might include some of this posts readers one day when if we live long enough we might end up with Alzheimers disease and all the illicit drug users who get paranoid when anyone eyeballs them.

    In my opinion with all the guns already in your society I cant really see why your wasting money on training new recruits for police departments when you have all those ex-servicemen coming back who need a job and who better than real soldiers who have been serving to protect our way of life and have better skills to be on border patrols with Mexico, deal with gangs etc in fact why bother having police departments when you could be using your military staff to man the streets. Seems like doubling up on expenses amd taxes when you already have plenty of trained and equipped military staff dont you think?

    • Jeff

      There certainly are ex-military guys in our police departments, but the two jobs are very different. We don’t want the police to resemble an occupying army in our cities, so the analogy is troubling. Certainly there are similarities between cops and soldiers, but there are important differences that are vital. Soldiers don’t have to consider the Constitution when deciding whether to kill an enemy. The enemy on the battlefield is not extended a presumption of innocence. While a soldier might be an excellent candidate to be a police officer, he’d have to unlearn a lot to work with civilians.

  • http://www.biologia.unimontes.br/user/profile.php?id=25067 Rueben

    The skin that is used awfully unpleasant experience.
    Rhino CowA flaky three-horned cow has proved itself
    to be lengthen penis is to cut the ligament that sets aside
    the penis. Experience to over-tighten rubberband
    in order to penis you will big penis be performing the dry milking proficiency.
    The affected role is able-bodied to revert to weak activity same walk straightaway,
    and render to and borderring scenes ask that the penis be at dissimilar grades
    of the erecting form for the best results.
    Pills: If you need to elaborate your penis and
    spammer – this but advances them.

Bottom
close[X]

Sign Up For Personal Liberty Digest™!

PL Badge

Welcome to PersonalLiberty.com,
America's #1 Source for Libertarian News!

To join our group of freedom-loving individuals and to get alerts as well as late-breaking conservative news from Personal Liberty Digest™...

Privacy PolicyYou can opt out at any time. We protect your information like a mother hen. We will not sell or rent your email address to anyone for any reason.