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Gun Rights Foes Hope To Stir Opposition Against Three Gun Bills In Virginia

March 23, 2010 by  

Gun rights foes hope to stir opposition against three gun bills in Virginia Four gun violence prevention organizations have called on Virginia Governor McDonnell to veto three gun bills currently on his desk that they believe would put state residents at greater risk of gun violence.

The Virginia Center for Public Safety (VACPS), the Virginia Chapters of the Million Mom March, Protest Easy Guns (PEG) and the Angel Fund have issued a statement saying that signing SB 334, SB 408 and HB 1217 would violate the governor’s earlier declaration that "the foremost obligation of government is public safety."

SB 334 would allow concealed carry permit holders to bring loaded handguns into establishments that have a liquor license in Virginia, SB 408 would allow those without concealed carry permits to keep loaded handguns in their vehicles or boats if stored in a locked container, while HB 1217 requires the Virginia Board of Education to establish a standardized program of gun safety education for students in elementary school.

With respect to this last bill, the coalition referred to "numerous" studies that demonstrate that familiarizing children with guns makes them more likely to handle firearms when adults are not present.

"The governor talks about the importance of public safety, but in practice he has cut millions of dollars in public safety funding from the state budget and supported a number of dangerous changes to Virginia’s gun laws," said VACPS board member Lori Haas. "Commonwealth families now have one last chance to hold him to his word and insist he veto [these bills]."

McDonnell has until April 12 to make his decision.
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  • TIME

    A well armed Public will be a strong force of protection for the Public at large.

    How many people in Austrilia now wish the Government had kept its bloody hands out of the Gun world. Now the Criminals have the guns and all CRIME RATE has gone up in numbers forget doubled its surpassed 10,000X and more.

    A PUBLIC with out guns is a BIG red target for CRIME from either the government or wack jobs or government wack jobs.

    Look at the Swiss, every Man and Woman is trained to use a gun as well owns guns, CRIME RATE, ZERO. Need I say more

    • http://Don'thaveone Sally

      Also Time, you don’t see Terrorists flocking to Switzerland like they have to France, England and many many more of the European countries. Wonder Why? If people with concealed weapons permits were allowed to carry on board airplanes and the pilots were allowed to have fire arms, I’ll bet hyjacking would be down also. Buy gee whiz none of the anointed ones would ever consider this.

    • JC

      This just in…

      Department of Education buys shotguns
      The Department of Education has placed an official request for bids to fill an order of 27 tactical shotguns.

      That’s not a typo, the Department of Education is buying riot shotguns.

      The full purchase order is available online, here.

      The U.S. Department of Education (ED) intends to purchase twenty-seven (27) REMINGTON BRAND MODEL 870 POLICE 12/14P MOD GRWC XS4 KXCS SF. RAMAC #24587 GAUGE: 12 BARREL: 14? – PARKERIZED CHOKE: MODIFIED SIGHTS: GHOST RING REAR WILSON COMBAT; FRONT – XS CONTOUR BEAD SIGHT STOCK: KNOXX REDUCE RECOIL ADJUSTABLE STOCK FORE-END: SPEEDFEED SPORT-SOLID – 14? LOP are designated as the only shotguns authorized for ED based on compatibility with ED existing shotgun inventory, certified armor and combat training and protocol, maintenance, and parts.

      The Department of Education has joined the Internal Revenue Service in a disturbing trend of government bureaucracies arming their employees.

      http://paracom.paramountcommunication.com/hostedemail/email.htm?h=ab9d065edf4bca15b664b4119377ff0d&CID=6050791585&ch=FD641B6F8AEFB887143CBD004289C151

      So much for “civil” service.

    • Meteorlady

      Switzerland actually has about the same murder rate per capita as most other places without gun control. But their crime rate is really low compared to the rest of the world. I would not want to do a home invasion in Switzerland. Switzerland is also a nation of very disciplined and moral people so law and order are pretty much the norm there.

  • William Nealey

    as usual the anti gunners are all wrong and making stupid arguments, I was taught very early on by my dad how to handle guns and at the same time I was taught how and when not to handle them,those people make a very good living doing nothing but trying to get more of our right taken away, if every one would quit buying from their supporters their money would dry up and they would have to go to work for a living,

  • American liberal

    While I support the 2nd amendment ( I’m a gun owner) common sense tells me it’s a horrible( stupid) to mix guns and booze… Keep them outta bars….

    • TIME

      AL Dude, Come on get real I have been in many bars all over the world and I have never seen a single person pull out a gun and shoot someone, not even in the deep south in the late 1960′s!
      Thats all HollywackedO Movie crap.

      Where on earth do you come up with these buffoonish ideas.

      Norm I know you will ask, TIME I thought you don’t drink?
      I don’t anylonger and have not for well over 20 years now, so asked and answered before you even get there

      • American liberal

        Time… Then you didn’t even read the artical…you’re in here making comments on an artical you didn’t even read…… It’s says….bringing a gun into establishments that sell liquor ….you don’t think that a bad idea ?…. Would you smoke in a factory that made gunpowder?.. Just because you’ve got a right to smoke?…. Is it any wonder that we think you rightys are dumb?… Bringing guns into bars is just flatout stupid… So that explains why you think it’s a great idea…. Next time you bring a gun into a bar , make sure it’s a tea bagger bar… Have fun

        • TIME

          AL Dude,
          Your comment about smoking in a gun powder factory is just as ignorant as per most of your post, thus clearly displaying the mindless dribbel that persons like yourself express when you know your wrong.

          I think I hear your mommie calling, better run home before you get your nickers in a knot.

          • American liberal

            Time &independant…. Could the reason you’ve been in bars allover the country and never seen anyone gunned down in a bar is because in just about all of Europe and 99.9% of America it’s aginst the law to bring guns or wear guns in establishment…. My god!.. Are you rightys even capable of thinking ?…

          • TIME

            AL Dude,
            Keep trying.
            Let me make this very clear for you; I am saying that even in a bar no one is shooting anyone, even being against the law. thats all HollyWackO crap, Its not real life.
            Can you get your gray matter around that fact?

            Why make laws just to make laws, it not in anyones good favor,
            its just chipping away at your freedom.
            Something that as a Liberal you should be able to grasp,
            “Freedom is a LIBERAL Concept.”

            I don’t need a gun, but if I wanted to I should be able to
            carry one “anywhere” I go if I have a permit to do so.
            Thats {Freedom.}

            I feel that “driving and texting” is far more of a threat
            to people.

          • Joe H.

            dumlib,
            do you really think just because it’s against the law, nobody carries one there??? Are you THAT dumb,deaf, and blind???? Three months ago in TOLEDO???? Remember that??? Seven guys shot it out in a pool hall where beer was being sold! They were all suspected to be drug dealers. they shot off over a hundred rounds and nobody got hit!!! I think they’re called drugstore cowboys!!! A crook doesn’t care if the law forbids it, they will still do it. Don’t be so naieve!!!

          • LIBERALS ARE IGNORANT

            To the A HOLE with the Treasonous usage of the word American in your liberal communist name;

            Hey you ignorant little a$$ wipe. I don’t think I have ever seen anybody as IGNORANT as you, either on the net, or in person. You are one moronic loser pal. What grade are you in? 3rd? Gawd you’re PATHETIC! Get a life. You haven’t made a rational post in 3 days now. Why don’t you cut your losses and go have some milk and cookies with your mommy. You’ve got your panties in such a wad that you can’t think straight!

          • Joe H.

            time,
            I guess that dumblib doesn’t want to touch that statement!!!

        • independant thinker

          The bill does not say bars it says establishments that serve alcohal this would include resturants whose primary income is derived from food. It is possible that is what this bill covers without reading it we do not know for sure what is actualy covered. I know in my state you cannot carry into an establishment that would be considered a bar but you can carry into a resturant that serves alcohol as part of the dining experience. Contrary to all the nay sayers like you who predicted a blood bath there has been no alcohal related shootings at these resturants in fact there has been no shootings of any kind there.

        • JeffH

          AmLib…it is always a matter of “sensibility” to you libs. The only sense you guys and gals have is the cents in you pockets! You people have never considered anything that doesn’t include some kind of way to force your will on everyone else. Never mind what the majority might want. Each time anyone concedes just the smallest bit of their freedom, those that take it always want more. Pretty soon it’s all gone, hen what. There can’t be a give and take on your freedom.
          If a bar or liquor establishment doesn’t want guns in their establishment, all they have to do is post a notice, similar to no one under 21 alowed inside. It’s that simple, but oh, no…that isn’t good enough for the liberal anti-gun groups now, is it?
          It’s much easier for them to just remove those freedoms.

          • JeffH

            On The Second Amendment, Don’t Believe Obama!
            The presidential primary season is finally over, and it is now time for gun owners to take a careful look at just where apparent nominee Barack Obama stands on issues related to the Second Amendment. During the primaries, Obama tried to hide behind vague statements of support for “sportsmen” or unfounded claims of general support for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms.

            But his real record, based on votes taken, political associations, and long standing positions, shows that Barack Obama is a serious threat to Second Amendment liberties. Don’t listen to his campaign rhetoric! Look instead to what he has said and done during his entire political career.

          • JeffH

            NY City Mayor Bloomberg and his waning group of mayors, MAIG, is urging Obama to make 40 changes to federal gun law interpretation and enforcement on his own-without congressional approval.

            Titled “A Blueprint for Federal Action”, the Bloomberg battle plan is calling for its mission to be carried out jointly by seven federal departments and agencies: Departments of State, Justice and Homeland Security, the FBI and BATFE, the White House Office of Management and Budget and the Consumer Product Safety Commission.

            What makes Bloomberg’s effort different is it’s multi-agency approach, and his ability to promote it with his enormous wealth and the prestige of being the mayor of America’s most influential city.

        • del

          American Liberal if you knew when you needed self defense things would be a lot easier don’t you think. Honestly don’t you think that you should have given your comment a little more thought. Besides the real killers out there are cars lets outlaw them.
          Vehicle Occupants Killed by Type of Vehicle (format: Type of Vehicle, 1999, 2000, % Change)

          Passenger Car : 20,862 20,492 -1.8%

          LTVs: 11,265 11,418 +1.4%

          Motorcycles: 2,483 2,862 +15%

          Large Trucks: 759 741 -2.3%

          Other Vehicles*: 414 420 +1.4%

          Unknown Body Type: 92 316 +243%

          TOTAL: 35,875 36,249 +1.0%

        • JCfromDC

          American liberal: I know this is late in coming and may eem trivial… As is usual with liberals and their “superior” education, I find it apalling that they cannot spell worth a damn. I can forgive bad typing and recognize it when I see it (like my own) but to fail to spell a simple word (article) and have it show as “artical” in a lame argument is just another blatant display of ignorance,and hurts the presentation.
          I have been in plenty of bars in places where numerous imbibers there were openly carrying. If one of them decided to get rowdy with his, about half a dozen others would have cut him down on the spot. That argument leaks all over the place

    • bbstacker

      Based on your non-sensical “logic”, we should keep humans out of motor vehicles. The stats show in excess of 40,000 a year die from traffic accidents, but where’s the lobby/group trying to ban motor vehicles. The law for carry weapons says restaurants that serve alcohol who make their primary sales from food. Get a clue, grow a set, learn your Heritage, man up. The rights of American Citizens give any of us the right to choose, not force our likes and dislikes upon another Citizen within the rule of law.

      • American liberal

        Your argument off… 1st.. I’m a 2nd amendment supporter… I’ve got weapons myself.. So I’m not arguing aginst your right to own weapons…. But I am arguing aginst guns in bars that serve liqour… And I’m not arguing aginst cars…. I’m saying drinking and driving… Huge diffrence… I don’t know anywhere where it’s legal to drink while driving and I can only think of 1 state where you can bring guns in a bar.. Tennessee…I just think it’s a bad mix and so do most people…..maybe you believe you can drink without shooting somebody but the very fact that you feel the need to carry a weapon on a bar enforces my argument.. The need for self defense…. So let’s suppose you can hold your booze and temper… It’s the other guy you need to worry about….same reason your automoble argument isn’t valid… People don’t buy cars for self defense… It’s for transportation… But the reason you need a gun is self defense..i’m not attacking your right to have a carry permit.. That’s fine , but nobody should be bringing guns where booze is served…. Remember even in the wildwest the Wyatt Earp disarmed everybody I’m tombstone… And the reason was the cattlemen came to town , got drunk and shot the town up….now can we discuss this like adults or should we just go straight to name calling…?..

        • JeffH

          American liberal, don’t even go the “i’m a 2nd amendment supporter” route. You are a stinking liberal, and liberals lie, cheat and steal to achieve their goals. You pulled that straight out of Uncle Saul’s book! Being decieved is not an option here!

        • LIBERALS ARE IGNORANT

          A commie liberal;
          Your Wyatt Earp analogy doesn’t wash you ignorant mu th f er.
          Earp was a stinkin liberal just like you are!!

    • teqpirate

      I’m a CCW holder in Georgia. I am allowed to carry in both bars and restaurants that serve alcohol – however I am not allowed to drink alcohol. If caught drinking while carrying my permit would be revoked. If the drunk at the next table picks up his steak knife and tries to stab his waiter for poor service, a law abiding CCW holder would be able to stop the violence before it starts.

  • Steve

    I don’t know about the studies my Father and Mother raised 8 Kids and we were all taught how to use a Gun when we were old enough to pick them up .We were taught never to point a firarm at any thing unless we meant to kill it,the Rifle set beside my Fathers bed for Forty years and the bullets right beside it us kids knew not to get it unless we were threatened .We knew if we did the fur would fly off our backside with the Razor Strap.None of us ever had an accident because We knew it was not a toy and the Grand kids were taught the same way.If the Grand Kids were with my Mother she treated them like they were hers,they knew to be good or she would whip them the same as she did her own kids.We all turned out to make something of our lives ,worked hard and raised our own kids.My three sons have thier own guns and run business’s from computer programers to auto parts and tractor parts stores.I will have to say my Mother was a Professional when it came to raising kids the only grand son that stays in trouble is a young one that came along after she was gone.That is why I wonder about these so called Proffessional’s that teach us how to raise kids and spare the rod,if a kid knows that the worst thing that is going to happen to it is do without a candy bar ,what is the deterent?????

    • Matt

      True! very true.

    • Joe H.

      Steve,
      EM’ AS CAN, DO. EM’ AS CAN’T TEACH!!!!

  • American Thinker

    If you are a gun owner ( I doubt it ), than shame on you… I do not recall seeing news articles of shootouts in bars where carry is allowed… they are talking about being able to sit down and have a meal with friends and family, even though there is a bar on premises.

    Hmmm I love these liberal catch phrases “mixing guns and booze” ” as if the most responsible citizens in our country, the gun owners, are going in to get plastered and start brawls with firearms. Grow up !

    • s c

      Since Obummer is not above ‘forcing’ people to do things against their will and their common sense, then let us jam the Second Amendment issue(s) down their miserable, pathetic throats.
      EVERY sleazoid ultraliberal progressive who doesn’t have any use for the Second Amendment should be FORCED to wear an item of clothing (T shirt, jacket, hat, etc.) that says “I hate the Second Amendment. I will NEVER own a weapon. I am a superior being, and I know what’s best for EVERYONE. Anyone who loves the Second Amendment is NO friend of mine.”
      Soon, the real life education of these self-made retards will be more than they can stand. When enough of them have been victimized by criminals who know what’s what about being unarmed, they will “see the light” in one, big damned hurry.
      What do you say, America?

      • http://www.NRA.com Stephaan

        SC:
        That’s a great idea. I saw a post on another page (might have been yours) that said that those against the 2nd amendment, and basic gun haters should have to put a sign on their house that says “we hate guns and the 2nd amendment”. It would be a nice invitation to burglars etc. ;-)

        • Joe H.

          Stephaan,
          yeah, I want to put one on my neighbors house!!! might convince him to go back to Canada where he came from and tries to do away with guns!!!

        • Joe H.

          SC &Stephaan,
          I see in the news that the U.S. and Russia have made an arms agreement. wonder how long before they try to take all of our guns in an arms treaty???

          • http://www.NRA.com Stephaan

            Joe;
            Billary, and her staff of girly men were all in Mexijoke yesterday making plans with their worthless prez on how to deal with the drug wars, so look for the assault weapons ban to be brought up again soon.
            They didn’t build the fence and close the border FOR A REASON! That would have solved all the cross border problems for us, but they want to use the assault weapons ban as the solution to all our border problems. Their plan has been in the works for over a year now. Getting the health care farce passed is the only reason they put the AWB on the back burner.

    • http://Don'thaveone Sally

      Remember American Thinker. Most of the libs are like Hollywood – where drugs and alcohol abound. You are speaking of Americans who have been raised by a two party family (man and a woman) with Christian or Jewish values. Most of the lefties weren’t raised by anyone and it was Dr. Spock’s ruls don’t spank that child becaquse it will ruin his expressive self esteem – Yea right!

    • Jim H.

      When you finish the can of beer, you take the empty and you have a target to practice with.

  • http://live.com GunnySgt

    You Know all these folks who want to take our right to self protection are really caught up in the socialist leaning sid3e of our country. How else do they think we can protect ourselves from Criminals and possible government going off the deep end. Look whats going on right now and tell me you trust government. The Police cannot be everywhere all the time and you have alot of crazy things going on out there. Responsible Citizens can and do handle personal protection very safely. Cars kill more people then guns and you don’t see them banning cars. People should check out history and other countries who have banned guns for the citizens and see the results. We can never let this happen in our country. A Patriot watching.

    • JeffH

      Gunny, I’ve been handling guns and around them for over 47 years. Even went through my hunters safety class in my elementary school, taught by a teacher who donated his time after school and approved by the local school board. He and my father got the message through to me about guns without incident and I’ve been fortunate enough to have passed my experience and knowledge on to family and friends.
      These anti-gun advocates will use every technique available to strip someone of their freedoms, that is just the way they are. I say they are immoral!

  • http://live.com GunnySgt

    You Know all these folks who want to take our right to self protection are really caught up in the socialist leaning side of our country. How else do they think we can protect ourselves from Criminals and possible government going off the deep end. Look whats going on right now and tell me you trust government. The Police cannot be everywhere all the time and you have alot of crazy things going on out there. Responsible Citizens can and do handle personal protection very safely. Cars kill more people then guns and you don’t see them banning cars. People should check out history and other countries who have banned guns for the citizens and see the results. We can never let this happen in our country. A Patriot watching.

    • J C

      Absolutely right Gunny. I guess in some utopian dream land guns were never invented. But they are a fact of our existence and as long as criminals and governments have them, it’s important we have them too. It’s called “balance”. And imagine what our leadership of petty tyrants would be doing if we were completely disarmed….

      • Joe H.

        JC
        I can give you an example of that. In Panama SA a man was arrested for having a holster from the prior regieme and he was sentenced to twenty years on the island. first he was sent to the Casa Modelo for two years and then his sentence was started from the end of the two years and not with credit for time served like we have here for the time being!! He didn’t have the gun, just the holster!!!

        • JC

          It’s down to people like us now Joe. Know your friends.

  • http://URL helena

    i HOPE that Virginia Governor McDonnel UPHOLDS THE SECOND CONSTITUTIONAL AMMENDMENT and will NOT go for this NONSENSE! Having a legal firearm/or CWL PREVENTS CRIMES!!!We are NOT CRIMINALS, BUT LAW ABIDING CITIZENS THAT HAVE EARNED THIS RIGHT. Is these criminals they owed to be TARGETING. The only reason for not going after the criminals ang going aftert the hard decent working Americans on this Nation is because it BOILS DOWN TO CONTROL AND TO ENSLAVE THE AMERICAN PEOPLE!CONTROL, CONTROL, & MORE CONTROL, WAKE UP PEOPLE, TAKE THE BANDAGES OFF, BEFORE IS TOO LATE & WE END UP LIKE WHAT CASTRO DID IN COMMUNIST CUBA. DISARMED EVERY CITIZEN TO CONTROL THE MASSES!!!!!God Bless ALL

    • independant thinker

      Actualy we have not earned that right. We were born with it. Our very existance gives us the right to own, carry, and use firearms for hunting, self defence, etc.

  • Matt

    here are some quotes below:

    “The people of any nation, ancient or modern, who lose the liberty of freely speaking, writing, or publishing their beliefs, soon lose all their liberty and become slaves.” “Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples’ liberty’s teeth.” George Washington “It is impossible to rightly govern a nation without God and the Bible.” George Washington

  • Barb

    I too was taught very young by my father how to handle, respect and shoot handguns, rifles and shotguns. My husband also was taught the same at an early age, we taught our daughters at an early age and they are teaching their children at an early age. No one in our families have ever been shot or have shot anybody either by design or accidently because they were taught to respect the power of the weapon and the proper use. Also when will these do- gooder organizations and people ever figure it out that no matter how many laws are out there banning guns from law abiding citizens, the bad guys, the criminals, the gangs, will ALWAYS get guns, have guns, and use guns against society, and each other. AND they will be able to get them EASILY as well. I hope Gov. Mc Connell hangs in there and sticks to his guns!!!!!

    • Joe H.

      Barb,
      My first shot was with a 22 at almost five years old. My father looked at it this way. he wanted to do away with the curiosity to keep me from playing with them. I grew up with guns around me all my life and so have mt kids. I guarantee you I can hit what I mean to!!!

  • James

    The Virginia State Constitution, Art. I, Sec. 13, reads: “That a well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural and safe defense of a free state, therefore, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, that standing armies, in time of peace should be avoided as dangerous to liberty, and that in all cases the military should be under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power.”
    That’s the governing law in Virginia, not the Second Amendment.

    • NEConservative

      The Second Amendment supercedes the Virginia clause. The United States Constitution trumps all lesser governments, whether they be state, local, municipality whatever. So you are stuck with the 2nd.

      • independant thinker

        The Second amendment does not superceed the Virginia constitution for they say the same thing. The Virginia constitution just spells out what the authors of the bill of rights ment in plain words.

  • Russell

    I think it’s all about the education. Instead of trying to take rights away from people, they should use their money to educate the public on how & when to use guns. If we take guns away from all the normal people then all the unstable people will rule the world.

  • http://www.personalliberty.com/news/pediatric-patients-with-chronic-pain-look-to-acupuncture-19609231/ James A Graham

    Subject: FW: Proposed 28th Amendment to the United States Constitution

    As a widow of a military retiree, who stood with her husband for over 20 years while he served this country (which was the greatest in the world until this Congress and President took over), I have to say I agree. Shirley

    As a retired military man that have given over twenty-seven years of my life to my country, I truly feel that what this
    Country needs most is a new amendment to the Constitution . I am recommending that we add the 28th amendment to the Constitution of the UNITED STATES.

    For too long we have been too complacent about the workings of Congress. Many citizens had no idea that Congress members could retire with the same pay after only one term, that they didn’t pay into Social Security, that they specifically exempted themselves from many of the laws they have passed (such as being exempt from any fear of prosecution for sexual harassment) while ordinary citizens must live under those laws. The latest is to exempt themselves from the Healthcare Reform that is being considered…in all of its forms. Somehow, that doesn’t seem logical. We do not have an elite that is above the law. I truly don’t care if they are Democrat, Republican, Independent or whatever. The self-serving must stop.

    This is a good way to do that. It is an idea whose time has come, Jim.

    Proposed 28th Amendment to the United States Constitution:

    “Congress shall make no law that applies to the citizens of the United States that does not apply equally to the Congressman, Senators and Representatives; and, Congress shall make no law that applies to the Congressman. Senators and Representatives that does not apply equally to the citizens of the United States”.

    This 28th amendment to the Constitution of the UNITED STATES Will apply to all passed, present and future
    congressman, Senators And Representatives.

    HTCM USN Retired James A. Graham E-Mail address is ( jagraham@charter.net ) Please forward !!!!!!!

    • independant thinker

      Best idea I have heard in a long time.

    • AirFrank

      Absolutely wonderful idea. And thank you for your service to country. Without folks like you we would be speaking The Queens English or German.

  • Hello?

    The only reason that ony Government would want to take away the right for citizens to protect themselves would be to control it’s citizens.
    Do you really think that our Government really has compassion for a victim and this bunch that we have in there now has a plan to cripple any rights that you have and make you slaves.
    I have a concealed carry permit and I got really chewed out by two Game officers while fishing and they saw my permit while I was looking for the fishing licensem, they asked if I had a weapon and I told them that I did, well they went on about how I was supposed to tell an officer of the law that I had a permit and a weapon as soon as they approach them and it was the law and I could loose my priviledge and get a citation if I did not. Now in the first place the very second that he approached me the permit was visible. Guess they were on an ego trip. Same old lesson, the law abiding citizen is the one that gets harrased. I told him that I had been checked out with no criminal background and the Sheriff trusted me with a concealed carry of a weapon and why was he afraid of me. Now I could have been a criminal with a hidden gun without his knowledge and blown him away. I guess what you don’t know will not hurt you. Why would a government give you a priviledge and then make you feel like a criminal? Typical mentallity in a Liberal society. I think that everyone should be encouraged to have a weapon for all of our good. The criminal will always have a weapon and we will not know it until it is too late. What if someone on those 911 air craft had a weapon other than box cutters, 3,000 live would be saved. Law enforcement can’t be everywhere but we can.

    • http://www.NRA.com Stephaan

      Hello? says:
      March 23, 2010 at 8:41 am

      The only reason that any Government would want to take away the right for citizens to protect themselves would be to control it’s citizens.
      Do you really think that our Government really has compassion for a victim and this bunch that we have in there now has a plan to cripple any rights that you have and make you slaves.
      ………………………………………………………………………………………………..
      You nailed it! That is the only reason the government wants to disarm us. It has NOTHING TO DO WITH SAFETY, or any of the other dozens of excuses they use. It’s all about control of the people.

  • NEConservative

    I’d like to see these supposed “numerous” studies that say children are more likely to handle guns after being educated about them when adults are not around. Also interesting would be to see WHO conducted them if theyb actually exist. This would be a serious consideration as to their validity. It would be a credit to the Gov. of Virginia tpo develop a standard program for children to learn gun safety. This will help ensure they follow proper gun handling and safety measures throughout life.

  • Raggs

    Tyranny is the main reason for our 2nd ammendment.
    And now we have a dictator in office that wants a civil army just as large as a our armed forces… Sounds like tyranny to me.

  • Leonard

    From the article: “the coalition referred to “numerous” studies that demonstrate that familiarizing children with guns makes them more likely to handle firearms when adults are not present.”

    If that logice is true, why are we teaching sex education in grade school?

    • bbstacker

      that hit the proverbial Nail on the head! These quotes about studies with no reference is evidence of spreading lies and bogus information. I stated earlier that upwards of 40K a year are killed in auto accidents, and that info is from the National records easily googled. There was a quote from an earlier article regarding 2A rights and issues: “Ted Kennedy’s car has killed more people than my guns have.” The cry-baby mentality over American Citizens owning guns has no substance, and if it weren’t guns it would be golf clubs, knives, rolling pins, baseball bats, sticks, ice picks, chains, wire, and mostly the result of stupidity and irrationality. You used to be able to buy a gun through the mail and have it delivered to your door! Of course, you used to be able to choose if you wanted to pay for medical insurance…but, we are living in some perilous times. Molon Labe.

      • Joe H.

        bbstacker,
        I knew you sounded familiar. you used to be on another site that I used to go to. It will remain unnamed in case you want it that way. my screen name was Eastlake Joe.

  • http://gmail i41

    Well Al “Greasy Rev” Sharpton for once told the truth, Osocialist told everyone what he was. The only thing he didn’t say plain enough, was all libs and dems are socialists. Dems are for complete control of every thing taught,said, planned or owned, or even eaten. Of course if it isn’t normal or is against the laws of nature, it is wonderful and embraced. Keep your eyes on the ball with in a few months, plans will be to tax any fire arms, followed by the serial number registations, a little more lag time of ownership, and the screws will be turned tighter! The cost of amno climbed since the dems took over Congress, try and buy reloading supplies, dems are restricting certain peices and parts, still love dems and rinos? They must be turned out and term limits put in place. More Constititionalist will step forward and dismantle these restrictions and created deptment ATF and EPA, that are appointed not elected. Dump the worth less UN, save our money, and turn the building into housing units. Look at the statue of a pistol tied in a knot, in front of the UN, that taxpayers support and again dems and rinos get giddy about supporting and will not do a damn thing untill the UN’s blessings are given!!!!

    • Joe H.

      i41,
      I don’t know if you have a reloader, but here in Ohio we can but ammo without signing and if they don’t have what you want you can always reload from what you can get. I have done that from time to time when I was younger! It can get expensive but you get the job done.

  • obiwan

    Every one here is missing an important point. Concealed means just that, concealed. Following the rules, you will never know the weapon is there and that is the whole point. If you study the news reports you will find the crime problem is rarely in a club, mall, rest. etc.
    The problem is getting from the establishment door to your car, in that crime zone called the parking lot, safely. The older we get, the more we look like easy targets to our criminals.
    Where I go, the weapon goes and no one will ever know it’s there unless it absolutely needs to be used. That decision is guided by
    the training you must get to obtain that concealed licence.

    • JeffH

      Well stated obiwan.

  • Hello?

    Please join the NRA, they are the only orginization fighting for our rights and make an investment, donate to the NRA for your gun rights. I give them money whenever I can. Don’t complain if you do not do anything about it. Freedom and rights are not cheap but talk is worthless. Do something!

    • bbstacker

      Also “Gun Owners of America”. The NRA is fine, but they will pester you with insurance policies for your $35 donation. All the truly valid groups have a place among America in supporting the Second Amendment, but read the fine print, and talk to others about the real nitty-gritty so that your dues are doing the work you expect. It is vital that we all as American Citizens understand our Heritage, for if we have no education on how and why this nation was created, then anyone can tell you something that will fulfill their cause and alter the truth. A good start, on your own, “Paul Revere’s Ride” by David Hackett Fischer.

      • JeffH

        So right bbstacker.

  • American liberal

    Time & independent… Again, I’m not saying you might not be able to be responsible.. But some people can’t drink… I know this guy that’s a great guy and fun… But after 4 or 5 drinks he looks for trouble… I don’t want him with a weapon..make sense?

    • JeffH

      Can your con AmLib…all you are is a liberal con artist…

    • TIME

      AL,
      I understand you point. But yet I bet he has never shot anyone has he?
      But due to the FREEDOMS that can be lost we can’t allow more laws set in place just for a “politician to make work for themselfs,” or {make themselfs look good to a special interest group.}
      Thats just 100% wrong.

      As a matter of fact thats how we have all the issues we now face.
      We as a nation have let Politicians make laws that have taken our very freedoms away one small chip at a time.

    • obiwan

      I understand your point, but if your friend causes enough trouble to have a police record with even minor charges he will not be able to obtain a concealed carry permit. The background check is part of the process. If an offense is commtted after obtaining a permit,
      it will be revoked. If he is drinking and carrying, he’s already committed that offense and you can turn him in yourself for his own good and yours. No true friend would jeopardize your safety.

  • Antonio

    Hello to all the great Americans!! I’m from Colombia and as ya’ll might guess guns are prohibitied, but guns are everywhere. They can be bought from police officers, military, drug dealers, and even the U.S. consulates. I have been shot twice. Once in my upper left leg close to mis juevos and in my right elbow (it missed the bone thank God). I’m not affriad of guns,no, i’m affraid of NOT having guns!!! I love the USA, the Second Amendment, and of course MY GUNS!!!

    • Barb

      Hey Antonio welcome back! And good for you!!! And to Blackhat: we have a concealed weapons law in our state and yes many businesses have no guns allowed on their doors! So far it’s the criminals who have done the gun crimes not any law abiding gun toting citizens! So Amlib sorry your bar fight ain’t in the picture!

  • American liberal

    Look at it like this… We can even have civil conversations about politics on the Internet and you want to mix guns and booze in a bar?…I could see it now…. Gun fight in a bar.. Argument over politics..

    • JeffH

      ..and I can see it this way…American liberal beaten in a bar that prohibits guns for spewing his liberal anti-gun rhetoric to a group of local gangsters from the Kiss my Juevos gang, who offer protection for a fee agains liberal lies.

      • JeffH

        …forgot, arguement over politics…

      • http://www.NRA.com Stephaan

        To the commie liberal A$$ wipe pretending to be an American;

        The only time we have arguments on this blog is when liberal a$$ wipes like you come on here and spread your anti-American crap you liberal slug!
        If you ever opened you socialist pie hole in a bar and started spewing your left wing schit diatribe, I wouldn’t need a gun to shut you up. I would use my fists, my boot, a beer mug, an ash tray, a pool cue or any of a dozen other things at hand. Trouble is I would probably have to get in line, and there wouldn’t be much left of you when it was my turn. My best advice to you is stay the hell out of Oregon if you are expecting a long life!

        Essen scheist betont sterben dich kommumismus mutterlich feucher!!

        • Joe H.

          Stephaan
          there’d be a line out the door and down the street!!!! Just let em’ know he wants to take their guns!!!! Lord have mercy on his soul….Cuz his azz is theirs!!!!

          • http://www.NRA.com Stephaan

            Joe;
            I doubt that the Liberal that uses American in his name has ever been in a bar. If he has, it was probably a gay bar where he felt safe. If he ever has been in a real bar, he probably went once and never went back due to being scared shi*less out of his mind.

            BTW I’m about 99% sure that he is “the Daniel” from the other blog, and Dylan concurs. If you remember the only way we got rid of him over there, was to NOT talk to him, or answer him directly. If you want to comment on some ignorant point he has made, MAKE YOUR COMMENT ABOUT HIM, TO ANOTHER POSTER. Don’t answer him directly, and he will eventually go away. If he’s not getting our attention, he will morph into the 10 year old and go elsewhere looking for adult attention ;-)

  • blackhat

    Wait a minute…Maybe I am off base, but I thought that any business can post a sign saying that guns would not be allowed. I mean, seriously, if a particular bar does not want concealed weapons, then post a sign, and say, “not here”. This is simply a matter of deregulating the obvious. Imagine that! In America the owner of any business has the right to allow, or disallow concealed weapons. And, in that same America an individual citizen has the right to carry, or not carry. And, the government stays out of it all…What a great country!

    • JeffH

      blackhat, life would be so much simpler if the libs wouldn’t complicate things.

      • JeffH

        Another small but meaningful point. If the liberals would cease and desist, think of all that money that could be saved and used in the economy rather than going to the fight for our freedoms. Just amazes me! Stupid is as stupid does!

    • obiwan

      Blackhat,
      Establisments can put up a sign and ban guns from their business.
      A good friend of mine has a ready made sign for them to post:

      “Dear criminal,
      the patrons of this establishement
      have been disarmed for your safety. Enjoy!
      The Management

  • American liberal

    .. I can’t see the 2nd amendment here being overturned…and I agree, we have the right of selfdefense…I like my guns but their always locked up untill we go target shooting or wild animals are stalking my animals.. …I’m 10 miles from the nearest town and I work away from home so my wife needs protection… Those reasons are why I have weapons.. And I have no need to take them to a bar..

  • American liberal

    Here’s another thought….. Sunday as the democrats were walking over to vote on the health bill people from the tea party were spitting , cursing and making threats to members of congress… Since the vote members of congress have recieved death threats and had windows broken… And you want to add guns and booze to this?..and all over healthcare … Can you imagin if their was a serious discussion going on in a bar?.. Like about football.. Or a game was on the Tv?.. A drunk redskin fan and a Dallas fan?.. Humor…. But seriously .. Guns and booze is a bad mix..

    • JeffH

      What is real and what is percieved as real? There are bad apples in every barrel, and how does one know if, in fact, those that were bad, weren’t planted by the very people that were pro-health care?
      It reminds me of a story about George Wallace speaking at the Cow Palace near San Francisco many years ago. There was a group cat calling and waving the American Flag at him up in a remote corner. He kept pointing them out for disrupting him. Ends up that it was the good ole Wallace people up in that corner, put there to garner attention by Wallace himself.
      Like I said before, there are bad apples in every group.

  • American liberal

    I’d worry more about republicans taking your guns than I would a liberal… The first thing Bush did when Katrina hit New Orleans was confiscate the guns citizens had…. The Brady Bill was written and sponcered by a republican and Bush is the one that had serial numbers put on Bullets….remember when Obama was about to take office?.. The gun and Bullet makers started a rumor that Obama was going to take your guns and limit the number of ammo you could buy?.. Well it was just a rumor to sell more weapons and ammo… Obama has proposed no bills at all to take anyones guns… It was a sales trick and they made millions just based on hysteria…Obama has no intention of taking anyones weapons …. He can’t..that 2nd amendment is written in stone… Basic right..

    • JeffH

      Lib..two things, they don’t and can’t put serial numbers on bullets, and Obama has a 100% voting record on gun control issues. He has never seen a gun control bill that he did not vote for.
      http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_obama.html

    • AirFrank

      AL, it wasn’t Bush to confiscate guns in New Orleans but that racist mayor Nagin. And he didn’t put serial numbers on bullets either, the technology does not exist. And remember, fascism is a liberal concept. Think not? Hitler was a liberal who turned to fascism. Still think not? The KKK was started by a democrat. Still think not? The DNC filibustered the civil rights act of 1964 for 57 days before it was forced through. Fear the left for they are not our friends.

      • JeffH

        AirFrank well directed at that AirHead.

      • American liberal

        You’re an idiot.. It’s amazing their are people as stupid as you are… You’ve got some foolish fantasy and conspiracy for everything…you’re a classic nutcase…

        • JeffH

          Wannabe Amerian but just a stinking liberal…is that all you got? I’ve got plenty more where this comes from for your lying carcass!

        • AirFrank

          AL – It is use who lives in fantasies. I note that you did not counter even one historical event that I noted. That is because they are all true and you can’t come to grips with the fact that a childs utopia doesn’t work in the real world.

        • obiwan

          Congrads Amerikan liberal on the creation of your own
          descriptive oxymoron.

      • Joe H.

        dumlib,
        Prove AirFrank wrong. nstead of just telling him he dumb or idiotic or what ever, prove him WRONG!!! You can’t!!! Every word he wrote is FACT!!!

    • http://www.NRA.com Stephaan

      Fake American, but definitely a liberal socialist;

      That’s the 3rd time in 2 days that you’ve posted that SAME DAMN LIE!
      Obama does have anti-2nd amendment bills in the pipe!
      The Blair Holt Firearms Gun Law, and the U.N Small Arms Treaty, and there are others that I don’t know the numbers of.

      Get a freakin clue you ignorant a$$wipe. Just because you pretend that you don’t know about them, doesn’t mean we don’t know you’re lying about it! Gawd you’re pathetic!

    • Don Tremaine

      American Lib
      All you need to do is look up all the past gun control bills and see which party voted yes and which party voted no. That will enlighten you.
      There are very few liberals, democrats that go to the NRA yearly meetings; they are mostly conservatives, republicans.

  • American liberal

    Bottom line.., I’m as liberal as they get.. But the 2nd amendment is as basic a right in my mind as life itself..as long as the person is rational…and of course not a felon.. Or at least not a violent felon

  • http://gmail i41

    Heh Lib, all the stories of Tea Party members spitting and threating the dems, I haven’t seen any vidoes as the union thugs have been videos show. And as too guns, glad you own some but their are a worthless as a broken stick locked up. Crooks and thugs don’t give you time to unlock and load your guns. More liberal nonsense beibg expounded. Maxiem Walters is a classic socialistic dem, empty claims only hearsay. She makes doubt about government taking control over everything, as she said on the floor of Congress.Every lib dem talks about social justice, which means every body gets the same pay, no matter how hard you work. Listen to the chocolite eleit socalist and the no mind, follow the leader, democrat morons who voted for socalist health care plan. Guns are a right granted by the Consistution, not health care. If it is so good, why is the actual implementation in 2018 or later for full effects. Dems are such tools of the party socialist government control over life. As in most statements why don’t dems just admit they worship dictators and Marxis style control. Also why is everyone supposed to abide by the law except the Reneger and his thugs and Congress. With all the extra pork in the plan that has nothing to do with healthcare, either dems can read but don’t have a comprehensive skill a above an leech, all slime and make a mess.

  • American liberal

    And if anyone really is concerned about communism or a socialist law… It’s the patriot act…. I was aginst it then and I’m aginst it now….under the Patriot act theirs no such thing as a right… For anyone..that act needs to go and go now… And if someone ever did want your guns, the Patriot act is exactly what they would use..,that’s why it blows me away that you conservatives are aginst healthcare but just ignored the Patriot act…talk about goverment power… It gives the goverment total power without question…

    • JeffH

      Exactly one reason why I don’t trust our government. Not Obama, who re-upped the Patriot Act. I also don’t trust anyone that chooses to make attempts at removing my freedoms, any of them. Give an inch and they’ll take a mile, and this includes giving anything up to the gun control nut cases.

  • American liberal

    41… Read my post before this one…. 41, I’ve never needed a gun so far and unless someone comes To my home I don’t need a gun…i’ve said already I believe you have the right to own and carry if you feel you need to… But guns and booze don’t mix any better than drinking and driving… That’s all I’m saying.. If you go into a bar, everybody should leave their guns in the trunk…. I trust the course they put you through fir a carry permit… So carry if you want…. But just like driving.. I don’t believe it’s a good mix…

    • Joe H.

      dumlib,
      you better hope you don’t end up like my Brother. He stole some stuff and was jailed under a felony so he could not even own a gun. He was walking to his car one night and was jumped and robbed by two people. when he saw one running at him he tried to turn and run back to the store. Well the other guy was coming from that way. Had he had a gun at that very moment, he wouldn’t have spent two weeks in the hospital four days of which were in intensive care!!

    • Don Tremaine

      You’re correct about guns and booze not mixing. It takes more than being in the same room. When a good citizen goes into a restaurant that serves alcohol carrying a gun, the person does not automatically become drunk. When you go to the store driving your car you are allowed to bring home all of the alcohol that you bought at the store even though alcohol and cars do not mix.

  • American liberal

    Jeff, then you’re the kind of guy I’m talking about that’s not intelligent enough to be allowed to carry a gun let alone go into a bar with one…I’m trying to hold a civil discussion and you’re responce is that I’m a lying stinking liberal… Your the guy who screws it up for the people who are capable of be responsible enough to have that kind of freedom… Your the guy that the people who would like to take our guns looks for…and if that’s the way you want to act why don’t you strap your gun on and go out and shoot the town up…you’ve got way more mouth than brains..so if anybody else wants to know why guns shouldn’t be allowed where booze is served read big mouthed Jeffs post…

    • Barb

      So let me get this straight Amlib, you are against the Constitution and Bill of Rights UNLESS it happens you like that part but only certain ones you libs deem worthy can qualify. Is that what you are saying? Because libs don’t like our rights but YOU LIKE the 2nd amendment, hmmmmmmm? Typical!

    • JeffH

      Hey liberal schmuck…put any twist on it anyway you want. It changes nothing about who or what you are. You are a fraud, that’s all. Come up with any scenario you want, because that is all you libs base your decisions on anyway. I believe in freedom, you believe in control!

  • American liberal

    See my point now… Example… Jeff and someother idiot are in a bar, Jeff drinks a beer and can’t control his mouth because the beer takes over his little brain and the other idiot shoots Jeff… Or the other guys wife kicks Jeffs butt… So that’s why guns in bars isn’t a good idea….some people just can’t control themselfs and don’t know how to behave

    • JeffH

      yada yada yada…just your own little scenario, totally unjustifiable and meaningless rhetoric.

    • JeffH

      Try this on for size liberal idiot…Jeff and American Liberal are in the same bar. Jeff has a CC permit and a small .357 in his coat pocket, minding his own business. American liberal isn’t drinking and is hitting on Jack, the bartender. Jack asks him to leave, but AmLib gets louder and makes more, physical advances on Jack. Jack resists, pushes him away and tells him to leave or Jack will call the cops. Jeff is watching and enjoying his Roy Rodgers soda. All hell breaks loose, AmLib has a knife at Jacks throat threatening to kill him by cutting his throat. Jack resists a little and AmLib spins him around and tries to stab him. Jeff can see that this as an attempt on Jack’s life, pulls out his gun and demands that AmLib drop the weapon. AmLib lunges at Jeff and forces Jeff to make a decision. Jeff sidesteps the clumsy AmLib, knocks him on the back of the head and removes the knife from AmLibs hand. The police arrest him for attempted murder and put him away, and praise Jeff for using his head instead of his gun, which the police said would have been justified.
      Months later we learn that AmLib fond another Jack in prison to cuddle up to.
      The moral of the story is: Never let your imagination cloud your judgement. In my scenario, Jeff would be a hero and American liberal would be in jail.

      • JeffH

        …some people just can’t control themselfs and don’t know how to behave

      • LIBERALS ARE IGNORANT

        Ha Ha Ha Ha, That was a great story Jeff. I was lmao so bad I couldn’t post a reply. I still got tears in my eyes. :-)
        BTW, I think the liberal commie IS in jail, or prison.

    • JeffH

      American liberal…I will point out that YOU have been the one coming up with the IDEAS of drunks in bars shooting each other. Now if that isn’t a liberal attempt at “scare tactics” I just don’t know what is. Even your buddy Saul would be disgusted at your feeble attempt at this brand of deception.

    • Meteorlady

      Ok – I’ll play:

      I’m in a bar and carrying. A fight breaks out and someone pulls a gun and start shooting up the place. I should have perhaps left my gun in the car? A lady that was in Luby’s Cafeteria watch her mother and father gunned down and her gun was in the car.

      Just a thought – it can work both ways. Do you not think they could just go to the parking lot and get the guns out from there?

  • American liberal

    Theirs a responsibility a person has to have to be capable of wearing a gun in public…even if you come across someone with a diffrent political view… Jeff doesn’t have that ability ..and it proved my point ..

    • JeffH

      Wannabe American but a liberal hack. Where in any of my comments have I even given a hint of “gun” aggression? Only in your foolish mind!

      • Joe H.

        JeffH,
        didn’t you know all libs can read minds. He read your mind and felt a threat. hey! I didn’t say he was GOOD at it!!!

        • JeffH

          Bad me for thinking in front of Houdini!

  • http://gmail i41

    Lib, I don’t know if you o the east west coast or in big cities,but it has never bothered me to be in a bar with someone packing. Teaches a little respect. Just like on the school yard open your mouth and you had be able to back it up. Libs always want to just talk sometimes only course is a good ass kicking. The reason our wars drag on so damn long iis that feel good dems want to talk and have patty cake sessions. My neices, newphews and daughter and sons have been in the military as enlistedand officers. The biggest problem is faggot loving dems who don’t want any one feeling bad. My kids werre on the way over to Mogadishu when Blackhawk down happened. The draft dodger Clinton would let the military use heavy armored choppers go in. The rules of engage ment is so damned watered down every time you liberal democrats get in, it is a disgrace. The military would take out more the sorry daiper headed idoits if the “deliberation” President knew what was going on or had a clue. When we went into Iraq we shot a rag head carring a rifle when it was banned. Leaky Lahey, Pin head Nancy and several other dinks thought it was too aggressive. Now they are worried about drone attacks, unfair advantage. I realize I’m talking about your heros. Our schools,which are controlled by the socialist unions have made the boys a bunch of whimps and the girls changing roles. When you say that you are a liberal as it comes, sounds like a Marxist, Chavez, or a real anti-American haters. I hate anti-American slugs like all dems and the Nappy Muslim, they all are always knocking the USA and go to great legeths to say we are bad and EU and dictators ar so in touch with the people. I also bet you lean to unions or are a union braindead clown.Name me one thing that goverenment programs that have come under budget or even on budget. You and you lib dems are socialist marxists. Really what do libs and sorry assed dems like about America, that is becoming more like the EU?

    • Joe H.

      i41,
      yup they ARE in touch with their people. Up side the head, in the kidneys, in the cahones, all over those spots beating them!!1

  • American liberal

    Barb…. Most liberals support the 2nd amendment….and that’s a problem because?..I can’t think of anything in the constitution I don’t like…. Just so you know… Being liberal doesn’t mean everybody thinks the same.. And of course that goes for conservatives .. You don’t all think exactly the same way.. I hope.. I thought this was an issue where we would have some common ground… It’s not nessessary that we think exactly the same , even on issues where we do have common ground

    • Barb

      Well get ready to loose all you support too then if your President gets his way!

    • AirFrank

      AL please clarify something for me. All anti-gun groups are associated with liberals. And I know that doesn’t mean that all liberals are anti-gun but what is it about liberals who think it’s wrong for me to own a gun but it’s okay to kill an unborn child?

      • American liberal

        The guns makers always start the rumors that someones trying to take you guns.. They do to sell guns and because you rightwingers are gullible…. Remember before Obama took office?… They said he was going to take all your guns and ammo…. Gun sales sores… Then Obama took office and has said he has no intention of taking anybodys guns.. Their is NO bill anywhere taking your guns…. It’s just that you people let yourselfs be played by rightwing radio host and nutjobs like Sarah Palin, Rush limbaugh and so on…and with abortion… Nobody likes abortion but it the law of the land that a Woman gas the right to choose… Here’s my question…. Why didn’t the republican ever do anything about ABORTION when they controlled CONGRESS , SENATE AND THE WHITE HOUSE…. It’s issues like they use to rile you up GUNS, RELIGION & ABORTiON…. The republicans will never overturn abortion,, never.. And they will keep telling you liberals are controlling you…. And it works… You rightys fall for it over and over….. How many years have you been hearing these same issues over and over..?.. You’re the usefull tools for republicans, Hate radio shows and religious nuts…

        • AirFrank

          Al – Really? Nobody likes abortions? Is that why we’ve now murdered 50 million fellow Americans? Because nobody likes it. This makes us worse than Stalin who only murdered 40 million Russians. There may be no bills to “take” my guns but there are two bills being worked in Congress to reinstate the assault weapons ban which was a complete failure as not one crime was stopped nor resolved due to the ban.

          You didn’t answer my question. Why are liberals anti- almost everything that allows for individual liberty? Anti-gun, Anti-religion, Anti-small gov’t, etc. Oh but you are for Big gov’t.

        • Joe H.

          When are you going to address the bills Stephaan mentioned?? you quite handily sidestepped them back there! You’ve got that liberal tactic down pat. there are at this moment at least three bills that I know of and could qite possibly more. It is strange when you say that not all libbies think the same that all of the three I read were sponsored by libbies!!!

      • American liberal

        Air..that’s atrue statement… Most anti gun groups are associated with some liberal groups… But they’re small powerless groups…. And some ( not all) pro gun groups are associated with anti American groups like the KKK , skinheads,the Timothy Mcveigh types…. Radicals come from both ends…. Remember the rightwingers that shot up those churches last year?.. And the reason the shooters gave was” they were liberal churches”…get my point?…and I would like better background checks to make sure nuts don’t get weapons….. This is a fact…. If all us liberals and all democrats wanted your guns taken , then your guns would be taken….. Same with abortion… If republicans really were all aginst abortion then abortion would be illegal…. The fact is abortion is just an issue to most republican politicians

        • JeffH

          WannaBe American but a stinkin liberal needs to find a group that will believe his lying bile. Go to Newsvine where you would do much better. They’re like a pack of dogs sniffin’ each others heinies. By the way, did you watch the History channel story on Hitler. He took the populations guns away too, didn’t he? Hmmm…sounds vaguely familiar!

  • http://gmail i41

    American and Republican both end in I can, Democrats ends in rats, and they destroy and contaminate every thing they touch or get around. T must be trapped, poisoned, or exterminated, or the enviorment is ruined and forever screwed up!!!!!

    • AirFrank

      I like it….

  • macumazahn

    I raised me my kids from birth with a loaded firearm in many rooms and even a loaded rifle in the bathroom, we lived in a bad neighborhood, I made no provisions to hide this fact and after everyone who lived around me was robbed, no one bothered me, I took my kids to the range at every opportunity, and they saw up front what a gun could do, and I never had an issue with my kids touching guns, I did however have them point out to me people who did not handle their weapons safely, embarrassing to have a 6 year old point that out to a grown man, I think every kid should be exposed to weapon safety, the only contact kids have with weapons is what they see on TV what a poor teacher that is!!

    • LIBERALS ARE IGNORANT

      Good Post Macumazahn !!

    • Meteorlady

      Thanks nice post.
      I live where they teach the kids to hunt early on and they have great respect for guns. We also have to take gun safety classes before carrying.
      People – when was the last time a cop showed up when a crime was being committed? I personally think I need to protect myself until they show up.

  • Antonio

    I think that we should be able to carry our guns when we want to wherever we want. Just like the old days. I mean in the old days when they were drinking and fighting in the bars the guns were in their holster’s. The only time somebody was shot was then they got caught cheating at poker. Another words (stealing). When am I going to be able to carry my ak-47 pistol???

  • Antonio

    oh and hi barb great to see you again. umm i dont know a lot about the political things but i’am learning. i do not understand why the government wants this health care crap to suppoesdly take care of the poor. I thought thats why they had MEDICAID???

    • Barb

      So did the vast majority of Americans! You are learning Antonio much faster than the libs ever will!

    • Meteorlady

      Actually Medicare was paid for through payroll taxes that were supposed to only support that program. It was sort of promise by the government to seniors when they retire and turn 65. Medicaid and numerous other “free” programs are fully funded through taxes paid from my pocket and yours. You see, our government does not went us to have the right to take care of ourselves.

  • Jim H.

    Maybe the reason you can get a Utah concealed carry permit, even if your not from that state, is those Mormons didn’t think about the drinking part of it.

  • Harold Olsen

    I personally do not like guns, even though I grew up with them. My father owned them but was someone who should not have been allowed to go near them. He kept a loaded pistol on the coffee table all the time when me, my two brothers and four sisters were quite young. One day, my older brother picked it up and it went off, into the chair I had been sitting in just minutes earlier. My father did not even have the safety on.

    My older brother, in the sixth grade, took a training class on the proper handling of guns–his idea, not my father’s. Except for the one incident, he was always careful with guns and as an adult owns several, as does my younger brother. Both used to be hunters.

    I believe law abiding citizens should have the right to own ANY weapons they choose. I also believe they should be trained in their use, just as you learn how to properly drive a car. The Second Amendment gives us the right to own guns and I do not believe that ANYONE, not even the government, has the right to tell us we can’t.

    • American liberal

      Harold, so you honestly believe a private citizen should be allowed to own any weapon he want?… So that includes.. Tanks?.. Land mines… Bazookas…napalm… Cluster bombs.. 50 caliber machine guns , flame throwers…and nuclear weapons??… And you believe a citizen needs these kinds of weapons for what?…

      • blackhat

        Hmmm…the Army hasn’t had bazooka’s in 50 years, we don’t have flame throwers either, and napalm has not been produced since WWII. Cluster bombs are dropped from aircraft, so unless you are a pilot of a plane large enough to carry one…How about this? Why don’t you think before opening your silly mouth (or, typing on the key board)?

        • Joe H.

          with what??????

      • JeffH

        AmLib,You should be embarressed for being so stupid!

      • Don Tremaine

        I would love to own a 50 cal M2. What a way cool rifle. Have you ever fired an automatic weapon? I have never seen anyone firing one that was not grinning ear to ear. We are talking about having fun; not in battle. The 50 cal rifle like the Barret is a wonderful rifle to shoot at long range targets.
        During the American revolutionary war all the citizens had the latest military assault rifles and they used them in battle. Today the liberals do not want citizens to be armed with anything more advanced than what we had in 1776. We should have M2s, M16s, M14s …. I would stop at anything considered unable to bear.
        Don

  • Antonio

    Hey Harold good post. You know ever since i have been in the USA i have heard that they want to ban guns, because of the (accidents that sometimes kill people.) With that logic, wouldn’t it be fair to ban vehicules??? What about electricity? I mean sometimes a short occures and causes a fire that kills (poor innocent people who were just sleeping) My god to hell with electricity let’s ban it. But wait, there still more problems we need to ban food I have heard of people choking to death. Poor guys just wanted to eat something. That should save more lives. oops, I forgot something we need to ban swimming too. Some people can not swim, but are actually dumb enough to jump in. What about birth giving??? I have heard that some women die giving birth. Maybe we could ban birth and save some lives. OH LORD, what natural disasters??? How in the hell could we ban those??? I mean they kill people too dont they??? Let’s face it people. Life is what it is; so just go buy some guns and ammo, and then go buy some more!!!

    • Don Tremaine

      Right on Antonio.

    • Meteorlady

      Nice you’re catching on fast. Guns don’t kill people, people do.

      If I follow the liberal logic then we should ban pencils for misspelling words.

  • LIBERALS ARE IGNORANT

    Antonio;
    I think you nailed it. All good points!!

    • American liberal

      Lmaoooo…maybe we should ban toasters since you rightwing simple minded fools equate electricity to ak 47′s….theirs no logic at all in antionos post….. You should be embarressed for being so stupid…

      • blackhat

        You should be embarressed for being so stupid…

      • JeffH

        You should be embarressed for being so stupid…

      • Don Tremaine

        I think I’ll join in.
        You should be embarrassed for being so stupid…

      • http://www.NRA.com Stephaan

        LOL, actually boys, it’s the other way around.

        The Liberal butthead is just TOO STUPID (ignorant) to be embarrassed.

        He reminds me of the Eddie Haskel dude from the ancient “Leave it to Beaver” show. Kiss ass when he needs to, lies the rest of the time, IGNORANT “ALL” OF THE TIME!

        • JeffH

          Stephaan, you are so correct with the Eddie Haskell comparison. I’m still laughing…..

      • Meteorlady

        I’ll bite.
        You should be embarrassed for being so stupid.

  • American liberal

    Antiono… Well you’re turning into a good rightwinger….. Electricity is for lights, warmth … Automobiles are for transportation … But guns are made to kill things…. So an automobile accident and being electrocuted are not comparable to guns…let me ask you this… You drive a car to get from 1 place to another.. Right?.. So for what purpose do you believe you need an Ak 47?… I think I understand your yanking these rightwing loonys chains… Good job.. It’s easy to make these people look foolish…

    • Joe H.

      Gee dumblib,
      I’m going to get a refund on mine then. I’ve had one for the last 30 years and they haven’t killed a thing. Unless you count targets!!!

      • JeffH

        Just spent the morning with a couple of friends at the outdoor range in Fresno sighting in my NEW AR-15. It gobbels up the brass rounds, but doesn’t care much for the Russian ammo so far. My 9mm Sig P226 eats anything with equal applause.

    • Don Tremaine

      I have guns. Not one of them has ever jumped out of the safe and started killing anything.

    • Don Tremaine

      Auto accidents are caused by stupidity. If people drove their cars as safely as they handle their guns, auto crashes will go way down. People drive their cars like it a casual thing not paying any attention to what is happening around them. Putting on lipstick or shaving or talking on the cell phone or picking their nose.
      The second amendment has nothing to do with hunting or sporting purpose. Self defense is a natural right. However, the second amendment is about this countries ability to stay free. Free from invasion by armies foreign or domestic.
      Don

  • American liberal

    I’ve got no problem with any citizen owning hand guns, rifles even semi automatic weapons like an AR 15 or mini 14′s… I own a couple of those myself… But theirs a common sense factor here…. My guns are self protection and if I was a hunter they could be used for that… But automatic weapons and 50 caliber machine guns should be banned for the public… You need automatic weapons for what? Rabbit hunting?..deer?… What?…. It’s important to keep automatic weapons out of peoples hands that could be used to kill mass amounts of people… What is you’re intention for these weapons?

    • AirFrank

      Al – you answered your own question. You say that you own guns for self defense. The very reason for our 2nd Amendment. But in the next breath you ask “You need automatic weapons for what?” For protection! Why does our military have automatic weapons? To suppress or kill a large number of people. No different than some MS-13 gang charging my house.

      Now answer me this question AL, if you can. Which firearm has more firepower, an automatic M-16 or a 12 ga pump shotgun?

      • TIME

        Air Frank,
        If you don’t mind I will address this question, I would rather have for close combat a 12 G with 3″ mag – w 6 rounds of 00Buck.
        Its a real house cleaner.

        But the point is most folks don’t know that, why ?
        Most folks have never been in combat, nor even an attack in their home.
        Thats what “FREEDOM” to own a guns stands for as well the 2nd Amdt.

        Thank God that most folks will never have to use said gun to defend ones self.

        But again with this Freedom comes Great Responsibility. That we as a nation MUST defend to the death, as once you have any such laws on the books, we all become targets.

        Again seek out person’s in your state with “solid American CORE values” to ellect into office in November 2010, we don’t need any more POSERS.
        For Gods sake we have enough of them. I want and you all should want someone with a bloody spine who will stand tall, walk the walk and not just talk big, but do the do.

        We have a lot of laws to repeel, I mean a lot of them starting with laws placed on the books in 1913 to the last one that will go down in our History as the most blantant disreguard for
        “AMERICAN CORE VALUES” ever, {{ Sunday March 21st 2010!}}

        Lets not forget what our mission is!

    • blackhat

      Let’s see…an M2 Browning…the last time I had to carry one of those I believe it was 84 lbs and the tripod was 44 lbs. Of course, this is not including the ammunition. But, I suppose I could carry one into a bank and “kill mass amounts of people”. Silly lib, if you are going to pick a weapon to use as an example, think it through first.

      I know you don’t “get it”, but some people like guns. Some people claim to be afraid of guns. But in reality they are not afraid of guns as much as what gun owners may do with thier guns. But, if I wanted to “kill mass amounts of people” I would not choose a .50 cal, or even an “automatic weapon”. A good hunting rifle with a scope, if I wanted to hang out in the bell tower, or a good pistol for up close and personal work. So my question is, “Who are you to limit what types of weapons should be ‘banned for the public’ based on your ‘common sense factor’ and fear?” I do not see how gun ownership should be on your terms. But, let’s not quibble over the Constitution.

      • Joe H.

        blackhat,
        theres always that .50cal sniper gun the military used!! talk about reach out and touch someone!!!!

        • JeffH

          1600 meters +…look out Taliban Stan and his buddy Al Queda!

    • TIME

      AL, Dude your missing the point as well a few of you are not displaying any point; thus creating a lot of rhetoric rather than making sense.
      100% of the people who own guns and are “NORMAL Americans” not unlike yourself’s non will not be using these guns on other Americans.

      Come on all of you do you really think anyone wakes up and gets out of bed with the single thought; Today I will take my AK 47 out and shoot targets like my neighbors.

      No thats crazy, but if YOU or I want to own an AK 47 thats your right even if all you ever do with it is keep it in your closet in a safe locked.
      Thats Freedom and with Freedom comes responsibility.
      As well if you have a fully auto AK 47 you have to pay the feds a fee each year for the permit As I recall its at least $3K.
      Let alone your printed filed and each gun has a full doc to it.

      For God sake AL, I can kill anyone with my bare hands let alone kill anyone with a fork, a toster, a hair dryer, my belt, a toe nail clipper so what. Most people don’t even know that there are hundreds of thousands of us that can do such.

      Freedom as well the understanding that one has responsibility for said freedoms is the main factor with all LAWS, again we don’t need politicians playing games with our Freedoms for special interest groups, thats whats gotten into the bloody mess we now face.
      Its not Democrats v Republicans, Its markxist v Americans who love FREEDOM. Saddly the Democrats have way to many marxist witin their ranks. Just as the Rebublicans do just not as many.

      So VOTE for CORE Values that you know to be what America stands for;
      “FREEDOM!”
      Lets all, slow down and think about what “Freedom” really means, don’t go with the Sound bite rhetoric no matter who tosses out the road apples.

      • JeffH

        TIME, very well said. I know that it sometimes gets to a point when argueing or trying to debate a point is like “pissing into the wind” with the anti’s and liberals. Yes, we have a huge fight ahead of us and yes, it is the Marxist/socialists against our freedom of rights. This government is being manipulated by, and is delivering the goods for, a very powerful, rich and persuasive entity. Government health care is just the beginning.

    • JeffH

      To even attempt to argue any scenarios that you present is rediculous at best. We and you AmLib, as you know oh so well, can use our imagination to create a scenario. Once again, it is all percieved and not remotely normal, but then again, the old shootouts in the movies aren’t even portrayed correctly. You have proven time and again that you have no arguement other than to “forcefully” restrict the law abiding citizen. The laws on he books are already ther for the criminals. Why not make the honest guy into a criminal too!

  • http://gmail i41

    Dems and all liberals are afraid of freedom. A mouse trap and a shell and a peice of thread and you will be down and dead.. Of course the tail end of democrats is rats, so it follows their thought patterns. They foul up every thing they touch.

  • sharon

    The biggest problem with gun control is movie stars, congress men etc. will all have their body guards. Who is going to defend me if I don’t have a gun and do it myself. And look who I will have to defend myself from the government, who took my gun so I could be safe. I have been around guns since I was a wee one, 64 years ago and so far I haven’t shot anyone or myself so I think I am qualified.
    Now, maybe if you want to go into the mean streets and take the guns away from gangs who shoot people for the fun of it, o.k. but who is brave enough to go after them?
    6 Gun Grandma

    • Joe H.

      Sharon,
      There are people with the guts to go after them, but the government won’t let them. I say run every one of those illegal bastar.. out of the country under threat of being shot if they come back!!!!

  • Don Tremaine

    These are just common sense gun rights.
    People have a right to protect themselves wherever they go. The last bill that teaches children about gun safety is perfect. I introduced my children to guns when they were very young. My son shot a gun when he was four years old. This of course was under strict supervision and control. My son is now 36 and is the safest person I have ever met with a gun; it is just so ingrained. When children learn about guns, their curiosity is satisfied. It’s the ones that have not been exposed that are at risk. The NRA has a successful program called Eddie Eagle. They do not teach children to shoot, they teach them if they see a gun go find an adult. Burring your head in the sand will fix nothing. Hoplophobia is just dangerous to everyone.

    • JeffH

      Don Tremaine, as you said, there are many “safe gun programs” that are available to todays youths through many organizations. It is so wrong to see the anti’s running their “gun’s aren’t safe because they kill” propaganda directed at young people. I’ve personally converted several friends and acquaintances to realize that guns can be safe and handled responsibly when they are in the hands of responsible, legal gun owners. They can also be a fun, safe tool of recreation also.
      It is just the “cowboy and Indian” mentality that Hollywood has portrayed that the anti’s and the uneducated non gun people sometimes embrace.
      I don’t carry, concealed or open, but I do have those options and that is what I think freedom is about, having choices. These liberals and anti’s believe they have a right based on their desires and freedom doesn’t fit into their equation.

      • Jim H.

        My gun is like a first aid kit or fire extinguisher, If I never need it I’ll be happy. If I ever need it, I’ll be glad I have it.

        • JeffH

          Jim H. You said it right. I feel the same way.

  • Antonio

    American liberal says: A.L. wrote the following post.
    March 24, 2010 at 5:02 am
    Antiono… Well you’re turning into a good rightwinger….. Electricity is for lights, warmth … Automobiles are for transportation … But guns are made to kill things…. So an automobile accident and being electrocuted are not comparable to guns…let me ask you this… You drive a car to get from 1 place to another.. Right?.. So for what purpose do you believe you need an Ak 47?… I think I understand your yanking these rightwing loonys chains… Good job.. It’s easy to make these people look foolish…

    Antonio writes:
    A.L. I’m sorry that you did not understand my previous post about electricity and automobiles and swimming and whatever else i wrote. The point i was making was that people actually do die from other causes; having a lack of education might cause one to miss that point. Anyways, to answer your question about why i need an ak-47. In case you are unaware, Janet Napolitan ( not how to spell her last name) has asked other countries to send their troops here to stop the american unrest. If they do come over here I will need MY ak-47′s and MY barrett’s to defend myself and My FELLOW AMERICANS. But dont get scared A.L. other countries know that the extremely rightwinging AMERICANS are well armed and WILL take on whatever they wish to bring on. With that in mind they will decline to come. THAT is why we the people need our assult weapons not to stop a thief, but to prevent our own government from rising with tyranny, and to prevent other countries from invading us. It worked in WW2 Japan wanted to invade America but the sole knowledge that Americans had guns stopped them. Imperials words (“there will be a rifle behind every blade of grass”).
    By the way, more people die annually in automobiles than by guns; so much for transportation. OH, and your ignorant.

  • obiwan

    Gentlemen, it’s all a moot point to me. My Ruger already saved my life
    in the parking lot of a Walmart this past winter. A local gang member
    out for initiation decided I was an easy mark. Luckily he was cocky
    enough to walk up within 20 ft of me before he started “reaching”.
    Because I was alert, trained and practised, I got the drop on him, weapon pointed at his chest, while his weapon was still pointed toward the ground and he was telling me how he wanted my wallet and keys.
    Fortunately for both of us, he quickly turned around and ran so I had no trouble not shooting him. About 2 hrs after filing a police report
    they caught the 17yr old kid in the lot of the Lowes next door trying
    to rob a lady MP.
    The point is, the experience was a confirmation, removing all doubt
    for me about carrying. Where I go the weapon goes and no future legislation will ever leave me defenseless. A weapon locked in a car is usless.

  • http://www.NRA.com Stephaan

    This takes less than 2 minutes to do this. It’s not too late to STOP THE ENFORCEMENT OF OBAMA CARE. Is it worth 2 minutes of your time??
    ******************************************************************************************************
    From the Desk of:
    Steve Elliott, Grassfire Nation
    Today, ObamaCare officially became law. But our PROTEST is just getting started.
    In less than 24 hours, we have already collected over 75,000
    CITIZEN PROTESTS against ObamaCare and will soon prepare
    them for hand-delivery directly to members of Congress.

    These PROTESTS will be hand-delivered to your Senators
    and your Representatives at no cost to you.

    Grassfire Nation wants to give you a practical way to
    PROTEST what is happening right now on Capitol Hill…
    and tell members of Congress that you will hold them
    accountable in November for their votes.

    This is a complimentary service. We will
    HAND-DELIVER your personal CITIZEN PROTEST
    message to your two Senators
    and Representatives. All you need to do is
    take a few moments to schedule and customize
    your protest message. Go here:

    http://www.grassfire.net/r.asp…..D=23792230

    As you know, earlier today ObamaCare officially became the
    law of the land. Also today, the Senate began debate on
    the “reconciliation” bill that will result in an even
    more oppressive version of ObamaCare becoming law.

    Soon, the IRS will be greatly expanded — $10 billion
    and 16,500 new agents to become the chief ObamaCare
    enforcer and collect hundreds of billions in new taxes.
    You will be forced to pay for abortions. The insurance
    industry will be consumed in the new ObamaCare regime.
    And the government will impose an unconstitutional mandate
    on individual citizens that will make us health serfs of
    the state.

    Thomas Sowell writes that we have reached a “turning point…
    in the dismantling of America’s values and institutions.”

    Even today… while Obama and the Democrats are reveling in
    their victory, Americans are beginning to mobilize to take a
    stand and stop ObamaCare and the politicians who have imposed
    this unconstitutional regime upon us.

    That’s why we are collecting CITIZEN PROTESTS from across the
    country and will deliver them this week to Congress.

    The protests state plainly:

    1. I OPPOSE ObamaCare and its unconstitutional mandates.

    2. I SUPPORT efforts to stop enforcement of ObamaCare.

    3. I WILL VOTE against any politician supporting ObamaCare.

    4. I will actively campaign against you the next time you are up for re-election if you don’t stop enforcement of Obama Care!!

    Again, we must hear from you by NOON THURSDAY to be included
    in the first wave of hand-delivered protests. Thanks for
    taking action.

    Steve Elliott
    Grassfire Nation

    P.S. There is no charge for this service. After scheduling
    your protest message, please forward this message to 30-40
    friends urging them to take action.

  • http://www.NRA.com Stephaan

    I just tested that link above and it said “could not be found” Here is a better one that is not busy, I hope.
    http://www.grassfire.net/r.asp?u=26444&RID=23792230

  • JeffH

    Stephaan, Thanks and have already signed and sen to other friends to do the same.

  • Antonio

    Hey guys i signed up too thanks

  • http://www.NRA.com Stephaan

    Hey, I just got an email from The National Association for Gun Rights, and they said that the Department of Education is joining ranks with the Internal Revenue Service and buying 12 guage shotguns. I haven’t read it yet so don’t know what’s up. Here’s the link. When you get there look on the right side of the page and you will see the note with a further link.
    WTF does the Dept. of Education need shotguns for?

    http://nationalgunrights.org/blog/?p=384

  • http://www.NRA.com Stephaan

    GAWD, IS ANY BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT HONEST?

    BATFE agent commits perjury

    An agent for the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE) has revealed that agents have committed perjury in order to persecute gun owners.

    From the Modesto Bee:

    An agent from the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives is expected to tell the court that investigators lied in order to get permission to put a wiretap on Holloway’s phones. Defense lawyers say the agent’s claims cast doubt on the case against Holloway.

    “You don’t usually see this in a case, where you have a government officer himself challenging the conduct leading up to something as important as a wiretap,” said Bill Osterhoudt, one of Holloway’s attorneys. “I think the judge will be interested in hearing it out.”

    The agent, 50-year-old Vince Cefalu, said Thursday he couldn’t discuss his testimony. Cefalu said he was the lead investigator on the Road Dog case in 2005 and 2006, before the FBI became involved. He still is employed by ATF, working in the agency’s Dublin office.

    In a posting on the whistle- blower Web site CleanUpATF.org, Cefalu said investigators took “illegal shortcuts” to get the Holloway wiretap. “The officers committed perjury in their application affidavit for the tap,” Cefalu wrote in the posting.

    When Cefalu spoke up about the “unethical and illegal” actions, he was removed from the case, he wrote in the Internet posting.

    Prosecutors say Cefalu is a disgruntled employee with an ax to grind. Cefalu has filed several complaints about misconduct at ATF. He’s asked for federal authorities to investigate his claims.

    Defense attorney Carl Faller, who represents Road Dog defendant Steven Johnson, said he expects prosecutors to paint Cefalu as an unreliable source, but he believes Cefalu is credible.

    “This isn’t somebody with unknown qualifications who was sitting in their basement wearing an aluminum foil hat waiting for spaceships to land,” Faller said. “This is someone who was then and is currently employed as a federal law enforcement agent.”

    It should come as no surprise to gun owners that the BATFE would be caught red handed twisting the law to persecute gun owners. Indeed, the BATFE has a long history of shading the truth and outright perjury in cases against gun owners.

    Websites like CleanUpTheATF.org have attempted to documented the abuses and excess of the BATFE, though I believe we are long past “fixing” the BATFE.

    • Antonio

      WOW thats crazy!!! Well i do have a question. If one day they do pass a bill that states that we must turn our guns over to the government. Who will be the ones to confiscate them??? I mean if the soldiers have to swear to protect our constitution…??? Then who will they send to our doors??

      And what would be the right thing to do when they come??? Open fire, or give them all up???

      • obiwan

        Antonio, you would just give them your one, token, registered gun.
        Understand?
        I trust the old saying ” I would rather be judged by 12 than carried
        by 6″

  • Senior Cesar

    Chicago Illinois
    March 25, 2010

    Yes, the Virginia governor Mc Donnell should dismiss those three gun laws (SB408,SB408,HB1217). But I see a different need to have a gun for protection in our homes. In Chicago there are very dangerous street thugs who are committing all kinds of crimes, home invasion rapes, robberies, killings, etceteras. Yet, home owners in Illinois are stripped by law of having a gun for protection The criterion is that thugs might steal those guns. But why stripped the home owner from having a gun for protection instead of making stealing a gun a mandatory life in prison sentence. Why not make a mandatory life sentence also for those who discharge an stolen gun to commit a crime? These goes after the perpetrators of crimes instead of leaving the home owner at the mercy of a dangerous street thug invading and raping and robbing and killing people in their homes. Illinois gun laws need to be reconsidered. However the commonwealth of Virginia need to get rid of Gov. Mc Donnell if he does not reconsider how the law ought to protect the home owners and their families in their homes from street thugs and invading police officers. Americans do have a duty to act in self defense.

    • JeffH

      Senior Cesar, thanks for your comments and I agree.

  • http://www.NRA.com Stephaan

    Whoever the ignorant moron was that shot the round through the congressmans window to protest the Obama care bill, YOU ARE —IN STUPID! You are only hurting us and the 2nd amendment. When you do stupid sh*t like that you only give HCI and the “Brady Bunch” more ammunition to use against us.

    IF YOU CAN’T CONTROL YOURSELF, THEN USE A ROCK OR A BRICK, YOU IGNORANT FOOL!!

  • Antonio

    Hello Obiwan, umm I thought that when you go to a store and buy a gun and fill out the yellow form that tells ATF what you have??? That means that if you 40 guns and they come to your door you can’t just give them one because they would know that you have bought 40. Right???

    • obiwan

      Antonio,
      Buy the guns used from private owners. Most don’t bother with any
      paperwork, they just want their money.

  • Don Tremaine

    Antonio,
    The FFL dealer maintains these forms at their place of business. The BATFE only gets these forms when the dealer goes out of business. This was another reason that the Clinton administration went after shutting down as many FFLs as possible. These have been paper not computer forms. The NICS data is supposed to be deleted soon after the OK is issued. Gun registration is illegal, period. This has not stopped places like California. They make you register the so-called assault weapons and to the best of my knowledge handguns. However, if you bought guns prior to 1968 there are no records, not even temporary ones. That was back when America had sane gun laws, don’t kill anyone unless they needed killing.

    • Antonio

      Thank You Don Tremaine, and Mr. Obiwan. You all are great!! I have copied your posts and pasted them to word so that i could save and remember them. Isn’t it funny how Washington D.C. has a hand gun ban but yet has the highest homicide rate in the USA? May God Bless you guys.

  • Joey B

    As an instructor for Concealed Carry I have to say most of you are only half right about this. I like the SWISS model as an example.
    I believe every one should be trained in the proper handling of firearms under the supervision of a certified NRA trained instructor. Nobody addresses the fact that half of the problems of gun related accidents where children are involved are caused by curiosity, ignorance and the fact that getting at daddy’s guns are forbidden.
    For example. At about 9 my daughter devoloped an unhealthy outlook about shooting. This was brought about because she was playing one of them shot em up 100 kills a minut video games at a friends house. Now being a good father I decided it was time to give her the first exposure to real guns. So mom and I took her to My hunt club’s range where I tied several watter filled gallon milk jugs to a tree limb.
    As always when I shoot maximum ear protection is mandatory for everybody. With her and mom standing off to the side and well behind me I proceeded shoot the milk jugs a few full soda cans with my Glock 23 using some Hydra Shock bullets. My daughter in awe as those bullets shredded the milk jugs and exploded the still full soda cans.
    I explained to her that something similar happens when a bullet passes through a human body and asked her to think the water like it was somebody’s blood. She got the point. I walked back to the firing line and proceeded to finish off the 3 cans I missed.
    Well thinking the lesson was over my daughter had removed the ear muffs. The roar of that pistol scared her so badly she almost peed on herself. Now came step #2. With me in control of the gun and her hand under mine I pointed it down range and let her squeeze off a round. When she felt the recoil of that weapon it was all the lesson she needed to give her a very real perspective that a gun is no toy. I do not recommend everybody go out and do this with their children. We finished off the training for the day at home when she got her first lesson about gun cleaning maintenance and learned the name of it’s parts. After dinner there was a short session about what to do if one of her friends ever brought out one of dad’s guns. Knowing what a gun is capable of she understood when I told her she should immediately leave the room and find an adult. After that her training began in earnest with a BB rifle. My daughter does not make mnistakes around weapons of any kind. She is not allowed around weapons unless I her mother or one of her uncles is present.
    Most people have no idea how much trouble they could be in if they do not know the rules of engagement before they pull the trigger. The fundamentals are the same but rules vary from state to state. Failure to know those rules can get you charged with a felony resulting in jail time. That is why most states require applicants for Concealed Carry Permits to attend a Concealed Carry course conducted by a certified instructor.
    Now, on a personal level. Yes I have a concealed carry permit. I got it because the certifying authority (usually a local majistrate) found no compleeing reason to deny me the right to carry. HOWEVER, yu must remember the permit is only good in your state. If you carry out of state it is up to you find out if your destination recognizes out of state permits. You must also be aware of laws for transporting weapons in every state you tralvel through. At least until a law requiring all states to recognize permits from other states.
    This is a case where ignorance of the law is no excuse. Unauthorized conceal carry is a felony in most states, and inproper storage of weapons in transport can also land you in jail.
    With this being said. Although I have a concealed carry permit I have only carried twice and only because I CAN.
    I closing I will give you an example I use when the gun control argument comes up at my house.
    I go up stairs, grab the box with my unloaded Glock in it, I bring it down, carefully remove the weapon, show everybody there is no clip in it after i pull back the slide to eject any round that mey be in there. I can tell you with100% certainty there is never a round in the chamber of any weapon I have boxed. Then I insert the clip, chamber a round and place the weapon on the floor. My question to my audience is. Now how can that gun kill anybody? It can lay on the floor for 100 years and do no damage of itself or by itself.
    therfore guns do not kill. The gun becodes the instrument of destruction only when one of picks it up points it at something or someone and pulls the trigger. That makes you the killer, the gun is your instrument of choice. This logic applies to any instrument one can imagine being used to kill.
    I can kill you with a plastic knife or fork or any hard, sharp or pointed object found around the house or garage. So what are we going to outlaw next? The silverware, you tools or kids baseball bat.
    It is statistically correct that the number of homicides has not decreased when guns have been uotlawed. People have just found other ways to commit the crime.
    In parting I will leave you with this last comment. People seem to have aproblem with Assault weapons. They are trying to classify them as any weapon that can fire as fast as you can pull the trigger. HAving been in the military and served in Vietnam I can say that is truly a falacy. Most anti gunners including HILARY wouldn’t know an assault weapon if they got shot in the A$$ with one.
    65 milliion armed Americans and that number is growing daily. We have the largest army of any country in the world. Why do you think no militarized country has ever attacked us on our own turf?

  • JCfromDC

    I think it would not be too unreasonable to have a Qualify Permit to own firearms. Pass a basic safety class (NRA approved and approved by and NRA instructor), like a Driver’s License, and then be able to get anything you want, as many as you want, without any info being passed to the Guv’ment on the number or type you own (including a Tommy guns, AK full-autos, UZIs or even a WWI German MG-42!).
    However, all it would take is for ATF agents to be allowed to raid any dealer’s records and get copies of all our names, which they can, and have, done in recent years.

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