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Gun Control Efforts Hurt Small Businesses, Industry Insiders Say

October 1, 2009 by  

Gun control efforts hurt small businesses, industry insiders say A newly released report which suggests regulations on small businesses in California have cost the state an estimated $492 million and 3.8 million jobs have spurred gun rights advocates to lobby the governor to veto three upcoming gun control bills.

The report was produced by Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger’s office, and prompted the California Association of Firearms Retailers (CAFR) and the National Shooting Sports Foundation (NSSF) to focus their efforts on preventing the signing of AB 962, which calls for firearm dealers to keep a registry of ammunition purchases.

Other bills that have been similarly criticized are SB 41, which requires additional paperwork and documentation for firearm sales and SB 585, which would set a precedent for banning gun shows in California.

The governor has until October 11 to veto them.

"The three bills on the governor’s desk will drive still more of our members out of business, taking with them badly needed jobs and tax revenue, further hurting the state’s already poor economy all without doing a thing to improve public safety," says Marc Halcon, president of CAFR.

According to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, the number of new guns in the U.S. increases by about 4.5 million each year. The NSSF estimates that the three bills would cost California $35.7 million in lost retail sales.
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  • J C

    This and other Bills like it are NOT designed to promote public safety. They are statistically unviable and are a tool of control, not safety. Bills like this have an opposite effect in that they spur huge sales of firearms and ammunition that wouild not happen normally.

    • JeffH

      California is the national leader in how to “not run government and the state intelligently. Our legislators have way too much free time on their hands and must sit around dreaming of how to waste taxpayer money and handcuff the average citizen. They lead the way in frivlous anti-gun legislation, environmental restrictions, taxes (sales tax is over 9%), building codes, etc. that far exceed the federal standards. Big business is a raity and those that are still in California refuse to invest in this state because they cannot afford too. Small businesses close daily because of overly restrictive laws. Diane Feinstein is the leader of the anti-gun movement in California, and until she and her supporters are defeated and removed from office, don’t look for much to change in California.
      Legislation such as AB962 are being justified as “gang prevention” related laws. AB962 was introduced by Southern Calififormia Assemblymember Kevin de Leon, where illegal aliens account for over 70% of the violent crimes in Los Angeles.
      Some of the most violent criminals at large today are illegal aliens. Yet in cities where the crime these aliens commit is highest, the police cannot use the most obvious tool to apprehend them: their immigration status. In Los Angeles, for example, dozens of members of a ruthless Salvadoran prison gang (MS13) have sneaked back into town after having been deported for such crimes as murder, assault with a deadly weapon, and drug trafficking. Police officers know who they are and know that their mere presence in the country is a felony. Yet should a cop arrest an illegal gangbanger for felonious reentry, it is he who will be treated as a criminal, for violating the LAPD’s rule against enforcing immigration law.
      That in a nutshell explains why gun control will not work.

      • eyeswideopen

        You do have a Republican Governor right? Yep, you voters are living with your decisions now.

        • JeffH

          Our Republican Governor is weak, but is not remotely the reason for Californias economic problems. This problem is shared by the legislators in our government. Republicans, Independents and Democrats.
          Once again your hatred of Republicans and your total ignororance shows in you comment.

          • eyeswideopen

            Jeff, after we get rid of all the illegal immigrants, who will you blame for all the problems? You are aware that Pres. Regan, granted amnesty to two milliom illegals during his admin aren’t you? Yes most of them lived in Ca. But they are now legal citizens, so they certainly can’t be impacting your issues. They should be paying taxes and voting republican.

          • DaveH
        • DaveH

          Read this Eyes, and eat Crow. There are 25 Democrats and 15 Republicans in the California State Senate. There are 49 Democrats and 29 Republicans in the California State Assembly. See Wikipedia:
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Legislature

          • eyeswideopen

            Dave, why would I eat crow? I asked if they had a Repub governor, which they do, and now they have to live with his leadership. And you point is ?? You are seriously impared, and looking to read more into a statement than what is actually there. Poor little man.

          • JeffH

            Poor little “TROLL”. The intention of your statement is what it is!
            In fishing we call it trolling!

          • DaveH

            Has anybody ever heard a woman talk like that? She’s a he. Or he’s not a she.

        • Joe H.

          The terminator is not a true republican in anyway!! If he was , old Joe Kennedy would be rollin’ in his grave if one of his married a repup. and that ground is just as smooth as it was before. He’s a rino nothing more! In California, you got more to worry about like the big quake commin’ soon I heard that on ABC so it must be right!!!! yup!

    • JeffH

      I have heard a rumor that Gov. Schwartzennegar will wait for the last minute to veto these bills so there isn’t any time to make anymore changes. As it stands now, DeLeon has given up most of what he originally proposed because of the pressure, but any part of this bill is bad for the businesses and bad for the consumer. It will not make criminals or gang bangers change their criminal habits, it will only handcuff the law abiding gun owners. That is the real motive for this and any restrictive anti-gun related legislation.

      • eyeswideopen

        Jeff, your Republican voters put him in. Now you have to live with the problems.

        • John

          You missed the point of Jeff’s post.

        • JeffH

          eyes is anti-American at best. Her comments “hold no water” with anyone of substance.

          • John

            I figured that she was anti-American from some of her other posts. Everything that she stands for is contrary to the principles of which this country was founded.

          • JeffH

            eyeswideopen is a “Playtime Troll”: an individual plays a simple, short game. Such trolls are relatively easy to spot because their attack or provocation is fairly blatant, and the persona is fairly two-dimensional. Or maybe one dimentional.

          • eyeswideopen

            Can’t you guys get a new mantra going, anybody you don’t like you call a muslim, anti-american, liberal, Nazi, Commie, socialist. You get so frustrated when you can’t argue your far fetched, illogical, hypocritical, non-fact based statements you are reduced to little school yard bullies, calling names. It is rather funny, and sad at same time.

          • April

            Eyes, You had to go there.LOL. You started the attacks, not them. Your the one making far fetched, illogical, hypocritical, non fact statements. When are you going to stop being a school yard bully?

          • eyeswideopen

            April, illogical, becasue I said they put their governor in office? They did, didn’t they? Or did some other state do the voting? You live with your votes, be it Democrat or Republican. Fact.

          • eyeswideopen

            Jeff, I didn’t know that substance was required on this site, you and the others who rant: commie, zealot, socialist, Nazi, liberal, have absoutely no substance, or you would be able to come up with one item that shows your President is all those things you claim. You and your buddies certainly can’t walk the walk and your talk is nothing except school yard bullying. Little boys with toys.

        • DaveH

          See my above post.

          • John

            Again eyes is too the contrary. Everytime someone disagrees with Obama she plays the race/hate card. Talk about getting a new mantra and being frustrated.

          • eyeswideopen

            You radical don’t frustrate me, I know exactly what you are.

          • DaveH

            I think he/she is melting down.

        • JeffH

          Polly want a cracker?

          • John

            If we don’t frustrate you, it sure sounds like it.

            Seriously with all of this crap going on in our country where in the hell are we headed?
            I’ve never seen such a great political divide. Honestly we’re threading in uncharttered waters and there’s plenty of blame to go around.

            As Americans I’m sure that we’ll all pull together. I mean with Iran getting ready to go Nuclear. It’s only a matter of time before Israel is forced to move forward with a pre-emptive strike.
            Then what???

            Sorry, just thinking out loud.

        • ccg

          Grow up Eyes!!!

      • eyeswideopen

        Where were you when “Bush Admin Back Gun Control” Jan 13,2008.?
        Where were all you upset gun owners then? You sure weren’t on this site claiming that Bush was taking your rights away.

        http://www.Newsmax.com/insidecover/gun_control_d.c./2008/01/13/64033.html

        Where were all you gun lovers during this time? Funny how, now that we have a black president, you are all suddenly affraid of having your guns taken away. Meanwhile when Bush did this, not a peep out of any of you…Conclusions should be drawn which show the real reason gun owners are fearful and they aren’t pretty.

        • John

          That’s because this admin. is trying too take more away than our gun rights.

          • John

            There she goes again playing the race card.

          • eyeswideopen

            John, you are so funny, Oh, our party did it first, but your party is doing it worst. Funny, funny little kids.

          • eyeswideopen

            John, what are they trying to take away?

          • John

            Eyes obviously you haven’ read my previous post. I used to be a Dem up until a few months ago. I did NOT vote for Obama. It didn’t take an Einstein to see what that this guy is about. I just want someone in office that knows how to run this country and handle foreign affairs. Not a bunch of idiots like we currently have.
            No its not funny, maybe you think it is because of your anti-American sentiment but as far as I’m concerned people like you can go screw yourselves.

        • JeffH

          eyeswideopen, this law certainly would have prevented you from ever buying a gun! You got ypurs in under the radar.

          President Bush signed the nation’s first new gun-control legislation in 14 years on Saturday to help keep guns out of the hands of the dangerously mentally ill. The law appropriates $250 million a year for states and their courts to computerize their records on mentally ill people and forward the information to to the FBI for inclusion in the National Instant Criminal Background Check System to prevent anyone who is seriously mentally ill, a criminal or who has a restraining order against them for domestic violence from buying a gun.

          • eyeswideopen

            Jeff, nope the criminally insane ones are you radicals, that can never admitt that the repubs took your rights away, and now the Dems’ have to restore them for you… ha ha ha. You should be on your knees thanking the Dems for getting control from the repuns before you lost your right to speak. Bush, what a wonderful idiot you had.

          • libertytrain

            I haven’t been able to figure out why it was acceptable, civil behavior to bash Bush all the years he was in office and continue to bash him, yet, some folks think it’s almost treason to bash the current guy? I’m confused. If someone states a negative opinion about Obama, they are playing the race card. If that’s the case does that must mean all those who disliked Bush, didn’t like having a white president?

          • DaveH

            LibertyTrain,
            The Liberals will use any words or tactics they can muster in their war on our freedom.

          • eyeswideopen

            Jeff, and the law that is sitting dead on the shelf, was to prevent terrorists from being able to purchase arms. But you and your group interpret that proposed bill, to be TAKING AWAY OUR GUNS!!!
            Bunch of fools running scared.

          • JeffH

            Known terrorists cannot buy guns legaly, already! Troll! This “terrorist” law is about Holder being able to stop(anyone he deems to be a right wing extremist) anyone he wants to, especially those of us that are always buying guns and ammunition so that we can pursue our hobbies and passions are considered “right wing extremists”‘.The Napolitano report, first and foremost, includes “no specific information that domestic rightwing terrorists are currently planning acts of violence” but is written in contemplation by the Department of Homeland Security that “The economic downturn and the election of the first African American president present unique drivers for rightwing radicalization.” It is, in a word, supposition. Homeland Security chief, Janet Napolitano, yesterday( 05/13/2009) assured lawmakers that a controversial internal report on right wing extremism was only for “situational awareness” and not for domestic intelligence targeting purposes.
            The report has provoked a deluge of criticism for identifying returning veterans from the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq as a possible threat to national security. The report speculated that right wing extremists might target returning soldiers for radicalization to exploit and harness their military knowledge and skills.
            I doubt that you would be able to understand any of this!

          • DaveH

            I will give one point to Eyes. He was right about the Republicans and the Patriot Act. Although I must point out that only 1 Democratic Senator (Dianne Feinstein) voted against it. Once that kind of apparatus is in place, any party can use it to their purpose.
            That is why, no matter which party you belong to, we must get back to Constitutional law, before they are whisking us away to terrorist prison camps, and denying us our basic rights.

        • J C

          Gun Lovers? Perhaps there is a basic tenet here you may not understand.
          When the government is the only entity with guns, we’ll have a repeat of Nazi Germany, Stalinist Russia and Maoist China. Those three regimes alone murdered over 50 million defenseless people. Think it can’t happen here? I’ll bet one worthless American dollar they were saying the same thing in Munich in 38.

          • JeffH

            Exactly!

          • JeffH

            Oh no…It could never happen in America…as long as the people have the “right to keep and bear arms”.

          • eyeswideopen

            J.C. I understand and was writting my Senators in 1999 trying to stop the gun control, what were you doing? Other than playing with the smartest head on your body?

          • DaveH

            Oooh. You’re nasty Eyes.

          • J C

            Actually EWO I was helping form the Libertarian Party of Canada. Keep your childish crap to yourself.

          • DaveH

            Good for you JC.

          • eyeswideopen

            J.c, you better hope it does better in Canada, than it does here.

        • DaveH

          Is that a Freudian Slip? Have you finally come out of the closet, Democrat?

          • eyeswideopen

            Nope, Dave, after being on this site for two months, and watching how you and the rest of the fearful radical act, I dumped my party, there isn’t really much left to try and save anyway. The Senators sound just like the radicals, and I no longer want any part of a party who doesn’t respond to the citizens voice.
            Hey, Pete, kept asking you and I ask you all the time, how does your party plan to implemnet the Libertarian government? What services are you doing to cut?

          • DaveH

            So what do you do when you realize that your house of cards is not sustainable? You just keep piling on more?

        • Joe H.

          I’m not afraid man I served in Viet Nam and I fired expert with 3 rifles and two pistols. I’ve probably done more shooting than some of your cops. The constitution states I have the right to conceal and carry weapons on my persons. That right shall not be abridged!!!

          • eyeswideopen

            Joe, the only thing you should be afraid of is that one of your buddies mistakes you for a liberal when he shoots you. Liberals don’t have any identifying marks on them. But you guys are really easy to spot, just listen for the ranting and raving.

          • April

            Well we sure can spot a lib. We have spotted you. You don’t need a gun to shoot. Your remarks mark you.

          • April

            And Thank you Joe H for your service. Because of your contribution we have come this far to keep our freedoms. God bless you and God bless America!

  • Marauder

    I’ve not seen evidence to show that liberal Democrats have problems with the idea of hurting small businesses any more than they have problems with infringing on citizens’ rights.

    Our only recourse is to throw the (WORD REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT) out, but success with this depends on (1) Obama’s not having been made dictator for life before the next election, and (2) enough members of the so-called “sleeping giant” remaining aware of the problems with this corrupt administration, congress, and for that matter the fringe media.

  • http://BrokenSpectrum.com Stephen

    I think we need a grammar check on this article. As is, its very hard to read.

    Some of you may find this article about guns of great interest.

    http://brokenspectrum.com/2009/10/04/gun-possession-of-questionable-value-in-an-assault-study-finds/

    • JeffH

      Interesting, but really has no real substance in it. I will take the risk(4:1) of being shot defending my life, rather than curling into a fetal position and allowing my life to be taken away without a chance to defend it.

      • David

        Amen!

      • http://BrokenSpectrum.com Stephen

        As you can tell from my article, I didn’t give it much stock as well.

        I’ll take the risk of being 4 times as likely of being shot by having a gun to help control my situation. There are some people out there that will shoot you regardless. If I have a gun, there’s a good chance I can prevent those people from further killing others.

        • JeffH

          Understood your intentions with the link, and your comment on it. Never thought otherwise.

  • Ms. T

    These bills are designed to punish the legal businesses that sell guns and ammunition. They are written only to put these folks out of business. There is no such thing as a “gun show loophole”. Registering annumition purchases will do nothing but make ammunition more expensive. Therefore, it will just consumers to start reloading their own rounds or buying ammunition out of state, or under the table. And more regulations to wade through in order to buy a gun? What a waste!! Enforce the existing laws about using guns in committing a crime first!

    Maybe it is a good idea to use the tax revenue losses to convince the governor to veto this mess, because using the logical constitutional arguments will get you absolutely no-where in the land of the fruits and the nuts!

    • JeffH

      As with any law, it is the enforcement of that said law that will determine it’s success. When enforcement of laws against criminals with guns don’t work, legislators make more laws to restrict citizens from protecting themselves and their property from thes criminals.
      I am sure a lot of our legislators are insulated in their “secured and gated communities” from the outside influence of crimnals guns that threaten businesses and the average citizen that cannot afford to live that way. The anti-gun groups JUST DON’T GET IT!

      • JeffH

        …I might add it is also the willingness of those “to follow the law”.

  • NANCY VANTWIST

    How can gun control harm small business? If any party has harmed small business it has been the gd Bush Repukes!! Why do so many who support abhor gun control? Guess they don’t have to live in areas where GUNS ARE KILLING CHILDREN EVERY DAY…where in some cities establishments selling guns do so illegally. Some of you ‘macho types’ should get an education and stop thinking throught that glass navel you have.
    And for the censors…please not that a previous poster did use profanity but spelled wrong…any idiot knows what he/she means…so please allow my post to ‘stay’

    • Thurman Marcum

      Nancy,

      I am a liberal democrat and I am a supporter of gun rights.I think your statement is way out of line.Gun control is not the answer.

      • DaveH

        Thank you Thurman.

    • http://guncontrol Eileen Barayasarra

      Nancy, I am not “macho” at all. I am a 70 year old woman. I live in a nice house in what is considered a nice neighborhood. In 2005, a 24 year old man who resembled Mike Tyson ran in my back door. He was high on drugs, a member of a Mexican gang. Police were chasing him and he eluded them, came over my solid 6 foot fence and ran in my house. I fortunately had a pistol. His own daddy told me over at the courthouse that his son would surely have killed me if I had not had my pistol. Why would you not want me to be able to defend myself? My pistol has never killed any children, but it sure did get rid of my intruder! After I was able to call 911, the police arrived here within 2 minutes. They were two blocks away and running the wrong direction. When SECONDS count, police are only MINUTES away! I will keep my pistol if you do not mind. If you choose to be helpless in the face of danger, that is your choice. DO NOT TRY TO TAKE MY CHOICE AWAY FROM ME! My friend in the next town did not have a pistol. Her intruder murdered her in her own bed. That was in 1990. She was 50 years old. She never saw her beautiful granddaughters. BECAUSE SHE DID NOT HAVE A PISTOL! Nancy, I hope you never NEED A PISTOL! If you ever do, remember that I warned you.

      • DaveH

        Eileen,
        A friend of my mother was going into her trailer and a man bolted out, shot her in the chest, and ran off. She fortunately lived.
        They caught someone later cashing her check. He said someone gave it to him and was not prosecuted for anything, not even the stolen check.

        • eyeswideopen

          And today in Miami, Fl. we convicted a man who had an AK47 in an apt complex, tried to shoot someone, missed and killed a little girl.

          I am for responsible gun rights, but it is scary that you all have guns, and not one of you can present a calm logical thought without name calling and letting your hatred of a political party get in your way. There should be a test to see if a person can remain calm and logical prior to issuing a gun permit.

          • April

            I agree! And it would be good of you to practice what you preach.

          • ccg

            Eyes, in one spot you call yourself a non-hypocritical troll, that you graduated in 1969 and were out burning your bra in protest.
            I was busy working, and not getting into trouble. You must be a hippie. During the late 60′s and early 70′s I thought you people were nuts. Most of you were takers, and not givers, and you are proud of that. You must have smoked too much pot.
            Not all of us are calling for impeachment by the way. I would like for Obama to grow up and get some common sense. Of course you don’t listen. What bothers most of us is the fact that he hates the United States and wants to kow-tow down to this country’s enemies.
            You also claim we cant present logic without name calling. From the first time I got on these blogs all I heard from you was name calling. You are the one that shows great hatred of a political party and calling names to those who belong to any party you don’t agree with.
            You talk nice, I will talk nice. But I will make a bet with you that you can’t talk nice. You can’t talk without calling names and letting your hatred show.
            Your whole mindset spews hatred.
            Again, you talk nice I will talk nice back to you, but if you don’t, I can respond to you like you respond. But, I bet you can’t.

    • J C

      Those are probably the cities with gun bans for law abiding citizens….the ones with the highest rate of violent crime.

      • David

        Like DC

    • Brad

      Guns don’t kill people, people kill people, until you can get that through your thick head, you’re going to vote for more gun control until every law abiding citizen is dis-armed. By the way who will have the guns then, the police, military, oh ya the “CRIMINALS!!!” It’s the criminal element going after one another with their illegal weapons and when an innocent child/adult gets shoot or killed the media goes wild calling for more gun control. The criminal doesn’t have to turn their guns in, then watch crime increase becuase the law abiding citizen is dis-armed. I can’t believe you could say something like that, but you do have your opinion (which sucks,) don’t whine when the police can’t make it to your home because an armed criminal breaks in. The criminal will be long gone by the time they get to your residence.

    • JeffH

      The arrogance of your mindset is pretty normal for the anti-gun set.
      To even think that you or any other person has the right do decide whether I or anyone else has a right to defend myself with a gun is pure unadulterated ignorance. To repeat so you can at least try to understand, criminals are criminals for a reason, they don’t obey the laws, they never have and they never will.
      I am sure you can let the criinals in your neighborhood know that you don’t have any guns so they can rob, rape and kill you, your husband and children, knowing you refuse to defend yourself and your family with anything but a law that says they can’t do that legaly without prosecution. It is your right to decide on your own lifes safety, but not on mine or anyone else that owns a gun.

    • John

      How can gun control hurt small business? Wow, you are dense and uneducated. Simply put, persons in my home state, the Soviet Republic of California, will go to Arizona, Nevada or Oregon to purchase guns. Get it? It’s really not that complex and doesn’t require a degree from some “university” to understand. Too bad you hate the 2nd Amendment so much. Or perhaps you’re just too stupid to figure out that criminals don’t care about your gun laws. Maybe your life and your loved ones aren’t worth saving, but my family and mine are. And what does G. Bush have to do with this law? Is that your lame response for everything gone wrong in your petty life? Can’t your side assume some responsibility for things gone bad? God, I hate uneducated morons always spewing their garbage; you are what Jo Stalin called a “useful idiot”. Crawl back into your hole. John S. US Navy Veteran, MBA

      • John

        John well said. My handle is also John and I also live in the Republic of Communist California.
        Some of these people just don’t get it. They’re proposing that we leave the law in the hands of the criminals by giving up our gun rights. Could you just see the low-life’s in line turning in their guns?

        On another quick note, this world isn’t getting any safer. Our National Security has been compromised and we have idiots in DC that could care less. Those people in DC and their sheep have taken their freedom and liberty for granted. They’ve either forgotten or are too damned stupid to realize that IF NOT FOR OUR COUNTRY’S MILITARY WE WOULD NOT ENJOY OUR FREEDOM AS WE’VE KNOWN IT. Yet those same idiots are willing to give up their freedom and liberty and give the government more control and be buddies with Iran, Venezuela, and Russia to name only a few.
        Honestly does anybody really trust Iran or Russia???
        Gun control is another component of the power grab by the government as is their healthcare reform.

        • eyeswideopen

          http:www.Newsmax.com/insidecover/gun_control_d.c./2008/01/13/64033.html

          http://articles.latimes.com/1999/may/26/news/Mn-41212

          Sure looks like the Repubs are passing gun control measures. Where were you outraged citizens then?

        • eyeswideopen
        • JeffH

          eyeswideopen…YOU ARE A TROLL with nothing better in your life than bashing Repulicans. Most anyone that participates can see through your facade. You continue to expose yourself for what you are, a TROLL!

          • JeffH

            The definition of EYESWIDEOPEN”: Troller is looking for a response…ANY response, and he will chum the waters with complaints, insults, compliments, and inflammatory tidbits hoping that someone…ANYONE, will take the bait. Generally quite harmless – practices a form of catch and release. Nonetheless, he can upset the delicate ecology of a discussion forum. Once a forum becomes aware of his presence, however, all feeding activity ceases and Troller must move on to more promising waters.

          • eyeswideopen

            But an honest non- hypocritical troll, who loves her country and refuses to let a bunch of cry baby radicals hijack it and subvert the Constitution for their own objectives. All of you who are calling for impeachment based on your personal racist beliefs are traitors. You can’t deny that you didn’t make a peep, when the repubs were taking away some rights, you were sleeping through the whold admin. History is a wonderful thing, as someday you will have to read it, and admit that you lost your right under your own political party.

          • DaveH

            I wasn’t even aware of this website until several months ago. I’m sure that is the case for others on this board. Where is she getting this information about how we felt relating to Bush’s gun controls?

          • J C

            EWO, are you sure thay aren’t calling for impeachment based on anti-communism? Play the race card all you want, but Obama is a communist.

          • eyeswideopen

            J.C. if you were right, where is the brains of your party? Don’t you think that people smarter than you, would be officia trying to get him removed? Fact is, he hasn’t done anything to give anyone legal cause. Not personal cause that all of you have, but legal cause. You do know this is a country of laws and not men don’t you?

          • DaveH

            Obama said that the health care bill wouldn’t cover illegal aliens, but the Supreme Court has said that illegals can’t be turned away from social services under the ‘equal protection’ clause of the Constitution. So Obama is either lying (as Joe Wilson said) or he is one of the dumbest lawyers in the country.
            http://www.cis.org/articles/2005/back305.html

          • eyeswideopen

            dave, you are an idiot, he said they would not get the Health plan that the rest of the Americans would get. No, this country doesn’t normally allow dying, bleeding people to lay in our streets for us to step over. But you will be one of those same kind of people, as you don’t have any insurance and soon I will be supporting you too. Don’t worry we will treat you just like an illegal who can’t buy insurance.

          • John

            Dave H,
            Yes Obama was lying. He does have a reputation of being a liar and there’s no covering that up.

            And get over it eyes, I’m not a racist. I don’t care if the President is Indian, Hispanic or Asian! We need a strong President who can stand up to our enemies and not an advocate of big socialist TYPE government.

          • eyeswideopen

            John, a strong president who happens to be a white, republican, baptist? Yes, we need another Bush like a hole in the head.

      • eyeswideopen

        It is rather embarrassing that an ex military man shows such hate towards another American who has a different opinion. Good thing you are retired as we really can’t have many like you serving this country. Just in case nobody told you, it is one country, and it does have two political parties, protected by the Constitution, which you swore to uphold. It didn’t say, oh, only the repuns and the rt wing have the right to speak, it said we all have the same equal rights. Although it does seem that your party is expert at disrespecting anyone who doesn’t act like sheep and ba ba ba their way to your side.

        • April

          SHAME ON YOU Eyes! What is embarassing are disrepctful remarks towards those who served from unpreposessing human beings such as yourself. You better start appreciating those who fought for your freedoms, b/c with attitudes like yours those freedoms will be pulled right out from underneath you. YOU ARE A TRADER!

          • eyeswideopen

            April, trader? Lmao,,,lol, listen girlie, I did serve,as did my dead husband and son, so you should be thanking me you silly thing.

        • ccg

          Yeah, I bet you served. I would hate to serve with you and have you cover my back. People like you that serve are cry babies and takers and full of fear. “You served” is a joke. You are the silly girl. You don’t know the meaning of serve.

          • eyeswideopen

            CCG. dude, unlike you I believe in two parties, I served and never asked who was a Republican or Democrat as back then it didn’t matter. You are jealous, you must be like Jeff and didn’t serve yourself. Well, don’t worry some of us women had your backs and still to this day would die for your right to be heard and be wrong. You are not important to me, so if you think I care what you think, you are such an egoistical arrogant coward, and we should be thankful that you didn’t serve.

    • John

      Criminals kill people.
      I have too admit, I just love it when I hear that an armed citizen was able to protect himself and his family rather than becoming another victim.
      Especially when he saved the taxpayers money if you know what I mean.

  • Thurman Marcum

    Agree,

    I am one liberal democrat that is for guns rights.Not all liberals democrats are for gun control. I own two colts.

  • Frank

    SB 962 Hasalre3ady been tried and as usual failed. to make it simple I and many others will go out of state to purchase ammo. Da anyone with the IQ of a french fry can figure out the lose to Caif.

  • Ronn

    History is full of stories about nations that want to take control of the guns belonging to the people. Every nation in the past 150 years that intends to enslave its people begins its efforts by removing the guns. This nation is no different. This government fears an all out civil war because it knows that it will ultimately lose that war. In time even the military will turn against the government in favor of the people. There is in truth no truth to Gun Safety laws or regulations. The fact is Guns do not kill… people do. Guns cannot just fire themselves or reload themselves… people do this action.
    The unfortunate truth of our times is that a civil war may be just around the corner. When people are finally fed up, starving, sick and poor enough they will do whatever is necessary to correct the situation. When the government itself IS the problem and the cause of the problems the end result is obvious.
    Mr. Obama was correct when he called for Change and stated that Change was (is) necessary. A peaceful and realistic transition is always the desired path but companies like those we have seen in this past decade insist on raping the people and being rewarded by the government for their crimes… this much is obvious and these actions have been done and the results are not realized yet. The American people are a tolerant and patient people but out own history shows that if you finally arouse this giant you had better be ready for the results… and I can tell you the arrogance of present politicians and corporations is not aware of or capable of handling the results I refer too.
    I am not an advocate of civil war or even civil unrest but I am also not stupid or blind.

    • J C

      Ronn, in the 20th century, 56 million were murdered after being disarmed. So what do you think gun control is really all about?
      It sure isn’t public safety.

      • eyeswideopen

        J.C. why don’t you ask the Republican party that question. See my links above.

        • JeffH

          You make ZERO contributions to this discussion, TROLL!

          • eyeswideopen

            Jeff, why because I don’t rant and rave about a civil war trying to remove my President from office? Because I can see what the repubs did to this country? Why because when you all make stupid statements I can come up with the facts, which so how hypocritical you are? Why because you are so in love with the radical idea of being the saviors of this country, who by the way is protected by a Constitution which has survived for 230 years, that you can’t admit that a bunch of rednecks are not the answer to our problems. Nobody is taking your guns, you are all making that up, but gun control was passed by the repubs in 1999 and 2008. Your justification for those laws is laughable. Radicals will not run this country as the Independents and Moderates are willing to dump your butts and fix this country without violence. The Constitution will outlast you and your nutty buddies.

          • April

            And who was in office in and filled the House in 1999?? Clinton and the Dems. And who in 2008? Bush was President of course; but the Dems filled the seats. You must sleep w/your eyes open. WAKE UP for crying out loud!!!

          • DaveH

            Liberal Democrat outed.

          • DaveH

            Saul would be proud of her (or is it him?).

          • JeffH

            Ms Troll-eyeswideopen…you are so wrong, RADICALS are running this country right now…to be continued!

          • eyeswideopen

            April, you can see who was in the seat of power by going to http://uspolitics.about.com/od/usgovernment/1/b1_party_divison_2.htm

          • John

            Exactly Jeff H,
            Radicals are running this country like never before have our freedoms and liberties been so compromised. (And it’s just the beginning of what they would really like to do)
            Can you believe that this idiot wants a kill switch to the Internet and wants to suppress conservative talk shows?
            Sure lets listen to more liars like Keith Oberman!

          • John

            Eyes you don’t get it. I don’t care if it’s a Republican in office or an Independent or a Libertarian we just need to get rid of this radical administration. And yes we will vote them out, but we will not be forced to succumb to any form of socialism!!!!
            I’ll put my life on the line before I stand by and let that happen!

        • J C

          EWO, get out of the right vs. left trap. It limits your thinking and makes no difference to anything. There is no solution with either party as the system itself is corrupt beyond repair.

    • JeffH

      Ronn…you make too much sense! The argument against your comment will be: C’mon, this is America and that could never happen here. If there are no guns, then how can people kill each other? Of course the cow was too ignorant to realize he was going to be slaughtered.
      This is but one reason why The Constitution and The Bill of Rights were written. There are still plenty of “sheeple” that cannot understand that!

      • eyeswideopen

        Oh, we understand it, and will use it against people like you who are trying to hijack this country, using violence.

        • JeffH

          Troll. You have finally admitted to being one of the SHEEPLE.
          You let your hate cloud your mind and confessed.

        • JeffH

          Troll, you own a gun so you must be part of that violence also!

          • eyeswideopen

            Jeff, no buddy, I didn’t promoted a civil war against Bush. He was our President and I used my right to complain, but I never tried to get people to committ treason and topple the President.

          • JeffH

            The TROLL is upset! I see no one trying to commit treason on here. There are some that feel our president might be though. Freedom of speech! Your method of speech is “Troll” baaaa, baaaa, baaaa!

          • DaveH

            Jeff,
            That is just part of the ‘baiting’ techniques that he (Eyes) learned from the Saul Salinsky book “Rules for Radicals”

        • John

          Your handle is a misnomer.

          • eyeswideopen

            and yours is hate monger.

          • John

            You’re too much. Always playing the race/hate card. Don’t you have any new material?

  • ONTIME

    Kaaaaleeeeephornyaaa, is a state in demise, it is basically ungovernable and has a legislature that is far to active and bent in growing the government and keeping the private sector in a state of impressment. The voters simply will not grow up and face facts.

    Being involved in a business that takes me from California to Nevada I can tell you that doing business in Nevada is far less complex than dealing with the government idiots that work for and against the best interest of California. It could be resolved and California could flourish if there were term limits, a part time legislature and yearly public audits of all elected officials in the state, including those elected to federal positions. It seems that once they are elected and aborad the self made gravy train then they milk it for years to come by re-election, running for higher office and political appointment. Many display no competency but because of incumbancy and huge war chest they thrive in the political environment and do more damage with ignorant legislation than they do good.

    There is going to be little or no hope for this state until the citizens finally decide that these parasites are going to ride them into the ground unless the taxpayers decide to cut the funding and impose a campaign tax on these leeches….much can be said of the same condition that we have allowed our federal government to sink to.

    • JeffH

      So true. I am a first generation native son in California and what is evident is the legislators are more concerned about protecting and supporting illegals and criminal than keeping California a prosperous state. We have more diversity in land and terrain, with the nations greatest agricultural diversity and production, and a small fish is far more important than the lives of humans in the central valley areas. Spending and creating legislation, just for the sake of legislation has broken this states back. We face some of the strictest gun laws in the nation, yet we lead the nation in gun deaths, LA and Oakland! This state is overrun with illegal aliens and the crime they bring with drugs and gangs.
      One can just d the research and be astounded by the statistics. Tens of millions of taxpayer dollars support illegal childberths, welfare and food stamps and medical care.
      If I can’t see changes soon, through my efforts and others, then I am packing it in and getting out! This is becoming a common tune for many that are sick about what the citizens of this great state have allowed California to become.

      • John

        Jeff, I was born, raised and educated in California too. I’ve been here for 55 years. With regards to that stupid fish, the Delta Smelt, can you believe what they’ve done to the agriculture of the San Joaquin Valley. Some of the most fertile land in this country is now a desert. Several thousands of people are unemployed and farmers are going bankrupt and losing their land.
        Regarding this state, I am moving my family to Arizona. Within two years I’ll be out of here.
        In fact I’ll be in AZ in November to begin my research.
        Pelosi and her lousy company can have this place.

        • JeffH

          John, I live in Clovis/Fresno and see firsthand the effects of the dry land and the dead and dying vine crops. I also see the lines at the Salvation Army on food givaway days. I wonder if the smelt are better pickled or marinated in olive oil and garlic?

          • John

            Jeff that is a terrible thing what is happening up there. That has always been such beautiful farmland to travel through. I haven’t been up there in years and I was shocked when I learned about what is happening up there.
            Thanks again to Pelosi & co.

        • JeffH

          I will also be gone within 4 years.

        • American Citizen

          Most of us here in flyover land would not even know about this if it were not for FoxNews and Sean Hannity. I hope your legislature wakes up there before they realize the true Americans all move out and leave that state to the illegals.

          • JeffH

            Some would think it a ” right wing conspiracy” and fully made up by Hannity and Fox, but some of us know the facts thanks to Fox and Hannity.

        • DaveH

          Cool. I welcome you and Jeff to Arizona.

          • JeffH

            Should I decide to move to Arizona, or even visit, I very much would like to meet you DaveH. If just to shake an Americans hand.

          • DaveH

            Thank you.

      • Palin12

        I left 5 years ago

  • Cathy of NJ

    Well we all know that the criminals will have their guns! I guess this bill will also save jobs! Liar, crooks, thieves! Take back our America!

    The beltway boys have to go! Vote them out in 2010, they need term limitations, no one should inherit a seat ever! eliminate their private heath care! They can use medicare, then medicade! No salaries for spouse or themselves for life!

    Government out of control! Flip the House in 2010!

    • American Citizen

      Congressional jobs should have term limits and not be subject to receiving pensions after leaving.

  • Cathy of NJ

    So true! Well we all know that the criminals will have their guns! I guess this bill will also save jobs! Liar, crooks, thieves! Take back our America!

    The beltway boys have to go! Vote them out in 2010, they need term limitations, no one should inherit a seat ever! eliminate their private heath care! They can use medicare, then medicade! No salaries for spouse or themselves for life!

    Government out of control! Flip the House in 2010!

    • JeffH

      Amen Cathy of NJ!

      • John

        Amen. Let’s turn this mess around in 2010.

        • eyeswideopen

          Yes, let’s put the Republican back in who are trying to take away your gun rights. http://articles.latimes.com/1999/may/26/News/Mn-41212

          • JeffH

            meaningless TROLL!

          • Wayne

            Just because someone has labeled themselves a Rebublican doesn’t mean they know that we live in a Republic and not a Democracy. More than likely they are nothing more than Democrats in disguise. Learn the difference before you vote next time and maybe you should learn the difference before you post another comment.

          • Wayne

            Eyes wide open my above comment was for your benefit. Just so you know. Your eyes may be open but your comments sound like you are wearing a blindfold. Open your eyes and your mind.

          • JeffH

            Wayne, that is an impossibility. eyes may at times sound reasonable.
            Her only real reason to participate in these discussions at all is to “troll” and “bash the Republicans”. If one were to go back and read all of her posts, I would bet that 90% make a derogatory referance to Republicans, Bush or Cheney and 8 years, with very little substance or thought.
            And that “is the bottom line”.

          • Wayne

            Jeff, that is too bad. Eyeswideshut then becomes part of the problem and never part of the solution. Anyone with any common sense knows that when guns are taken from the American Citizen then only criminals will have guns. Equality and freedom then becomes impossible.

          • American Citizen

            Eyes claims to be a “she” but sometimes I think her husband must post under her name. The eyes may be open, but they have cataracts that need removing.

          • John

            Or mayber her wife posts under her name. Remember she’s about as left as you can get.

          • JeffH

            I prefer her “TROLL” monicker, although all of the above is probably more accurate.

          • DaveH

            She says she wants moderates. Seriously, has anybody on this board ever known a moderate that would roll back the size of government?

          • eyeswideopen

            Wayne, you sir, don’t know crap, I am a gun owner, and have never stated I wanted guns taken away. See how assumptions make an ass out of you? I have a permit to carry, do you? No, you probably couldn’t pass the test.

          • JeffH

            Little TROLL is getting upset again. Admit it, You are what you are, a confessed SHEEPLE!

          • DaveH

            Wow, he is really coming out of the closet.

            Eyes, settle down. Just come clean. The truth will set you free. What is your given name? George? Brad? Steven?

  • April

    I have discovered on numerous accounts that the ones who pull the race card are the ones who are really racist. AaHa! Is it that eyes is racist?? OMG! What a pity!

    • JeffH

      The troll says she hates those that pull the race card. Think she might be fibbin’ just a bit? Some might call it lying!

    • eyeswideopen

      April, I know sad isn’t it, when someone defends their President, they are called various, but not very creative names. Until one of you can come up with a real issue that would warrant removal from office, your racism shows. He hasn’t taken away any of your rights, hasn’t committed any impeachable offenses, and is trying to save your socialist medical programs that many of you enjoy. You can personally not like someone, but to make accusations which hold no water, usually after you peal away the superfical reasons of hate, it get’s down to fear. Fear of being governed by someone different.

      • http://None Taylor Ward

        To ‘Eyes Wide Open”, but with leftist vision. You write as if well educated; probably from some liberal, change the world university, but with no real concept of what is happening around you or to our country. I guess you are much younger than me, and definitely without military service. Just for the record, guns don’t kill people, people do, and there is not one validated case of wrongful death in this country contributable to an NRA member. There were over thirty five student deaths and 290 student shootings in Chicago schools last year. Obamaland, imagine that. Guess what, they were predominately blacks shooting blacks. Are you black, by chance. The race card is way outdated, and racial issues today are means of promoting an agenda, nothing to do with fact. Nations that have confiscated their citizens’ guns, have become violent nations, mainly violence against the elderly and women, unarmed of course. In case you were not around in the ’60s, the Republicans carried the vote to pass the “Equal Opportunity Bill” of 1964, with Al Gore, Sr. and Robert Byrd strongly objecting. Two fine white DEMOCTATS. huh. Next time you get mugged, call Obama for HELP.

        • John

          Thank you well said on all points.
          Including the race and hate issue that eyes plays profusely. She is the only one on this site that continuously goes there and I’ve pointed it out on numerous occasions.

        • eyeswideopen

          Taylor, I am convinced that you people cannot read. I have a carry permit. I don’t want us to lose our gun rights. However, I will not make stupid statements that Obama is taking away our guns. I will state that Bush did subjugate our rights, and I was not happy with that. But I never advocated a civil war, or called him names while he was in office. I tried to work within the system to stop him. All this complaining and not one of these people did a damn thing to try and prevent his admin. from passing financially ignorant bills, no on even had a clue that when you go to war, a tax cut seriously hurts your military capability. So, to all those who are complaining now, where were they when their own party was hijacking their rights?
          I wouldn’t consider the University of Texas a liberal college. Then again, this crew will label anything and anybody a liberal who doesn’t agree with their infantile logic.

          • eyeswideopen

            1969 Graduate. So, I marched to stop the Viet Nam war, burned my bra, and saw Kent State students shot. I have lived through some bad times in this country, but I never thought I would read this kind of prejuice, unfounded, rhetoric. It sure makes my stomache churn, when you read that people want to topple this government. They have no faith in the Constitution, which has worked for over 230 years. Use your vote, if you don’t like something, but to ignite the hate mongering radicals, an promote the violence is not acceptable to those who truly love this country, warts and all. Like it or not, it is my country too.

          • JeffH

            The TROLL SAYS: “All this complaining and not one of these people did a damn thing to try and prevent his admin. from passing financially ignorant bills, no on even had a clue that when you go to war, a tax cut seriously hurts your military capability. So, to all those who are complaining now, where were they when their own party was hijacking their rights?”
            Nice to know you “selfishly” feel like you are the only one that protested. I guess you have kept track of everyone that ever protested against past governments and none of us are on the list!
            You really showed your stupidity with that rant!
            Now everyone knows “what” you are!

          • ccg

            Eyes, what are you talking about? All you dois make stupid statements

          • eyeswideopen

            Jeff, I am merely asking what did any of you do? It would be interesting to see if you were awake, and bleating like you are now, or is it really that you all just didn’t care at that time? I have earned the right to complain about the past admin, I worked to change it, what did you do?

          • JeffH

            TROLL, as usual a “Polly want a cracker” programed response with the usual question. NOBODY REALLY CARES ANYMORE!

  • DaveH

    Oh yeah, don’t worry, the police are here to protect us:
    http://www.nationalexpositor.com/News/1322.html

  • RayD

    The people that don’t believe in gun control should do what I do. Spend some time and write, email, call the governor and ask him to veto this bill and any other bill that takes our gun rights away.
    Not that it has done any good but I send faxes, emails and make calls to Finestien and Boxer to voice my opinion. I also support Chuck DeVore who is running against Boxer in 2010. I donated to his campaign. This Country is heading for disaster very soon if we don’t get busy and vote these tax and spenders out of office. I believe the Democrats are much worse in the honesty and spending department, but the Republicans aren’t a bunch of alter boys and girls either.
    I hope the Forefathers or God is watching over us. I think we need help real bad. My last words are: “IMPEACH OBAMA” HE IS A LIAR AND A SOCIALIST.

    • JeffH

      Since I retired and bought my computer, I have become very more aware and active with my emails to my representatives and the White House. I have been sending Gov. Schwartzennegar emails every other day asking for a veto of AB962 and SB585, with a valid point of explanation from a California gun owner.
      I had an interesting email exchange with DeLeons, Chief of Staff over AB 962. His comments were arrogant at times and based soley on the bills attempt to stop “gang bangers and felons from buying ammunition without regard of current laws or the law abiding citizen. I also forwarded all of the emails to the ILA-NRA, which were recieved with a big thank you. I do purchase ammunition online and have bought and sold guns online legally, and find I can save up to several hundred dollars on purchases. I’m honest as I feel the majority of those that choose to buy guns and ammunition legally are.
      In regards to emails to Boxer and Feinstein, generic responses only without mention of the issue. My local Reps. have both responded directly to the issues with full support of my views. That I appreciate.
      As for Madam Pelosi, I just ask her to resign a couple times a week, citing her verbal desriptions of the American people she has criticized. I am sure that has landed me on the Homeland Security list of “Right Wing Extremists” even though I am nothing more than a very concerned AMERICAN.

      • American Citizen

        They, the politicians, say they listen to us, but I have grave doubts. Their actions are telling us to go to the devil.

      • ccg

        Jeff, you don’t owe Eyes any explanations, you are the good guy here. Eyes hangs herself with her own words. The only thing she is consistent with is name calling and her showing her hatred and disdain for anyone who does not agree with her. She has no tolerance for anyone who is different than her. She is truly pathetic.
        She is a typical liberal leftist.

        • JeffH

          Thanks, but my comments were not for her anyway. Was more an explanation about my experiences that parallel this discussion including emails to representatives.

  • lockdnloaded

    Right on JeffH, Eyes clearly is a troll. And the reference to the little head, lot of class there, really ‘adds’ to the discussion.
    If it walks like a troll, and talks like a troll, yep, a TROLL. Move on loser. I too am from Central Valley originally and from a heavy AGRI background. We’ve probably walked or tilled a lot of the same fields.

    Living in the occupied Bay Area now and the nut cases are trying to close the Cow Palace Gun Show with 585 . Despite the absence of facts they keep on trying and we, well, we KEEP ON BUYING!

    • eyeswideopen

      Occupied? You really are living in another world aren’t you? You could go to a country that has daily fighting and be very happy.

      • John

        Thanks to our lousy President that’s where we’re headed, anarchy. His lack of foreign affairs experience and sucking up to our enemies. Not to mention his priorities are out of line. Going to Copenhagen to make a pitch to have the Olympics hosted in his crony’s backyard and putting General MCChrystal off for 3 months.

        Again there’s just too much to list. Everyday it’s something new. Like what you ask? What about Kevin Jennings. Not part of the subject matter -discussed herein but you get my point.

        • DaveH

          I’m sure glad that Obama is bringing us all together.

          • John

            Yep, there are a lot of sheep out there.

        • lockdnloaded

          John, Right on the money. It’s Amateur Hour at the the top and combined with the narcissistic, elitist arrogance so far it’s made us a laughing stock paper tiger with the rest of the world.

          • John

            Ahmadinejad, Chavez, Putin, & Kim Jong Il are having their ways with us right now.

      • JeffH

        TROLL

      • lockdnloaded

        Guess if I was hunting TROLLS that might not be so bad! Hmmmmm! And btw TROLL, I was born here and live here so I guess I AM entitled to my opinion huh? Or do you have trouble with that? And “occupied” you (WORD REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT) is an euphemism for the (yes) disenfranchisement that I and my moderate friends (doctors, lawyers, indian chiefs) feel living in the wacko, hyperliberal, way past far left Bay Area. And Eyes, YOU give the meaning of generalize a WHOLE NEW DEFINITION. You are the master of generalization (my observation from reading your inane posts) But that’s just my opinion (I’m still allowed to voice my opinion, right?) Now that I have set the record straight IMHO all communications with TROLLS will begin and end with one word…. TROLL buhbye now

        • eyeswideopen

          With a name like that and you want to be taken serious?? lol, loudly laughing. Is that what you are proud of, to be able to lock and load? Hate to tell you, but just about anyone can perform that function, and be taught how to shoot. Brain, now that’s another issue, we can’t teach how to use common sense. So I will pray for you to never forget how to lock. Maybe you will forget how to load and more people will be safe.

          • lockdnloaded

            TROLL… What a clever response, gosh how to respond< oh yeah… TROLL

        • JeffH

          Troll was probably abused as a child. That would explain her constant unstable attacks on the Obama non-believers.

    • JeffH

      Nice to here from you. Keep em lockdnloaded!

      • lockdnloaded

        Working a half day and heading for the range with some friends in just a couple of hours. Hoping to see the TROLL there so we can admire his/her “Carry Permit” &*)

        • JeffH

          Where do you shoot at? I shot handguns indoors in San Leandro and shotgunned at Concord Sportsman’s Club and Martinez Trap with occasional trips to Bird’s Landing for sporting clays.

    • DaveH

      Lock,
      I flew out of Oakland once and the ATA there were the pushiest and rudest agents that I have seen. In Dallas the ATA agents were the most efficient and polite agents that I have encountered in my hundreds of flights. Interesting, isn’t it? One is a hotbed of Liberalism, the other supposedly full of conservative rednecks.

      • eyeswideopen

        Dave leave it to you to generalize about a whole group of people, but that’s what you do isn’t it? Lump all those who aren’t Libers or rt winger, together and brand them the reason everything is wrong in America. So intelligent, beyond belief.

        • keith

          truth is truth,DEAL WITH IT!!!

      • JeffH

        I’ve flown out of Oakland many times. After 9/11, things got tough all over. Being from the area, I just took the rudeness in stride, and learned that I could pack my carry on bag tighter to make the check in process a little easier.

    • JeffH

      lockdnloaded…what part of the bay are you in. I was born and raised in El Sobrante, about 7 mi north of Berkely next to Pinole.

  • DaveH

    Well, since Eyes keeps dredging up the past, I think it is OK to post this great audio from 49 years ago.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1qZBnsHiNw

    • lockdnloaded

      Nice one Dave, Thanks for that link!

  • RayD

    I think eye’s eye’s are in her back pocket and that’s her problem. She’s always looking in the dark.

    • lockdnloaded

      probably suffers from cranial rectosis or rectal myopia

      • keith

        that was priceless!got to remember that one!

  • keith

    hah hah hah hah,the left-wing kooks and whacko’s are trying their best with their few working braincells to try and defend their messiah TO NO AVAIL,their in a quandry,hah hah hah,it’s hilarious,they keep repeating the same ole mantra,blah blah blah,NO AMOUNT OF TWISTED LOGIC WILL SALVAGE THEIR IDOLS REPUTATION,HAH HAH HAH,KEEP TRYING LIBS,YOUR PATHETIC ATTEMPTS AT DEFENDING HIM AND HIS LACKYS ARE LAUGHABLE,YET ENTERTAINING,HE WILL FOREVER GO DOWN AS THE WORST PRES WE’VE EVER HAD!VOTE EM OUT IN 2010,BYE BYE GOOD RIDDENCE!

  • Pantera

    First time on, and My First Observation …

    “eyes wide open” seems to have their “eyes closed tight”, or is it just the sand in them from sticking your head in it for so long, that is impairing your vision ???

    ALL uneducated cowards fear guns, and fear ALL cowards that use them against children, grandmothers, and others that “just happen to be in the way” … (Spank those Punks that need Spanking !!!).

    • John

      Pantera,
      Let me be the first to welcome you to this site.
      Good observation, eyes is out there and doesn’t have a clue. Just angry and hostile to everyone on this site that doesn’t agree with her Messiah.

      • keith

        yep,that about sums it up in a nutshell.

        • lockdnloaded

          Don’t forget the inane responses that have nothing to do with facts you may have posted but instead take issue with your board name and other personal issues. Just a TROLL

          • John

            Yeah, I’ve seen the inane responses and your board name being attacked. So has my name, my name “John” is aka a “Hate Mongerer”.

  • lockdnloaded

    I like it! Just “speshul” how someone can make that kind of generalization based on a name or an avatar. But then TROLLS are kinda like slinkies… not really good for anything, but you still can’t help but smile when you see one tumble down the stairs

    • keith

      LOL!!!!!!!1

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