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Green Lies About Oil Sands Put America’s Energy Future At Risk

July 28, 2010 by  

Green Lies About Oil Sands Put America’s Energy Future At Risk

Alberta’s oil sands are back on the Green’s hit list. And this time the Greens are playing dirty.

A couple of weeks ago the San Francisco based environmental group, Corporate Ethics International—which has few ethics and works closely with the Sierra Club and Greenpeace—spent $50,000 erecting billboards in Denver, Portland, Seattle and Minneapolis that deride Alberta as home to "the other oil disaster.” The campaign urges tourists not to go there.

The billboards—which may be coming to a city near you even if you live in Europe—showcase a dead duck found in a Syncrude tailings pond and an oil-soaked pelican in the Gulf of Mexico.

Now I have been to Alberta’s oil sands on a couple of occasions and I can tell you that the land is scarred. Squeezing oil out of shale is a tough and dirty business and the waste ponds there do kill ducks, although hardly enough to create a frenzy over. In fact fewer ducks die from being soaked in tailings ponds in the oil sands than are killed by flying into wind power turbines.

I need to make one more point: Canada produces 2 percent of the world’s greenhouse-gas emissions and the oil sands account for about 5 percent of that total. So while the Fort McMurray area is tarnished, it has a smaller carbon footprint on the world than a handful of Chinese coal-fired power plants. Still I can’t remember Greenpeace damning people that went to the Summer Olympics in Beijing.

I can also tell you that the last time I was up in the Fort McMurray area where Alberta’s giant oil sands are located was October, 2001. I took this trip in the wake of blown-up buildings and murdered Americans—Americans killed by Arabs, most of them Saudis, whose oil production American Greens don’t seem to have a problem with.

At that time I told my subscribers to Outstanding Investments that if I had to choose between energy security and some scarred land I would choose energy security. I also told them that if I had to choose between ducks and people; I would choose people every time.

My real outrage over this slander by the Greens against Alberta is that it is full of lies and it doesn’t even target what the environmentalists consider to be the problem—the oil sands themselves. Instead, it goes after an entire province and its tourist industry.

It was a topic of conversation here in Calgary last week at the Pacific Northwest Economic Region Summit. I was on hand and heard as people in business and government on both sides of the United States/Canada border condemned the latest smear tactics.

“I voted with my feet, I’m here (in Calgary),” said David Jacobson, the U.S. Ambassador to Canada. “To tell you the truth I think that ad campaign makes about as much sense for people not to come to Alberta to vacation because of the oil sands as it does for people not to visit Chicago because Illinois has coal.”

As an American who was born and now lives in Alberta, I can tell you it is a majestic place to visit. I have not seen greater beauty anywhere in the world than the Rocky Mountains that flank Calgary.

You might think that the Corporate Ethics group would understand that propaganda doesn’t work when the truth is allowed to get out.

Even the infamous liar, Supreme leader Kim Jong-il, has a better understanding of propaganda writes the Montreal Gazette: “The North Koreans don’t let their citizens travel. That is why Corporate Ethics International would like Alberta to be as isolated as Albania.”

There is just another tiny problem with the Alberta attack ads—they are filled without outright lies. Alberta Premier Ed Stelmach is particularly angry at the anti-Alberta ads, calling them a "propaganda campaign that is full of lies.”

Stelmach pointed out that claims about the size of the oil sands development, as well as the damage to water and air, are all grossly wrong.

Corporate Ethics International claims that Alberta’s oil sands are “twice the size of England.”

Not even close says Travis Davies, a spokesman for the Canadian Association of Petroleum. "There is a massive difference between 260,000 square kilometres and the reality of the Alberta oil sands, which is 600 sq. km. impacted and 65 sq. km. reclaimed." So much for truth in advertising.

Still, Alberta’s oil sands might seem like an easy target for the environmentalists, even in an age where radicals in the Middle East are targeting the U.S. That doesn’t mean that the Greens are being honest about the utility of Alberta’s oil sands.

“The environmental risks of the oil sands have been greatly exaggerated and overblown by activist organizations that have different agendas,” says Hal Kvisle, the former CEO of TransCanada, a North American pipeline giant. “These parties, such as Natural Resources Defense Council and Greenpeace, make statements about the oil sands that mostly aren’t true.”

America Needs Alberta’s Blue-Eyed Sheiks
I have some other news for the Greens—if they want to count on Arab oil—some of it from places where extremists continue to plot death and destruction on America—Alberta has plenty of other buyers. In fact China must be tickled pink at the Greens’ attack on Alberta because they are plowing plenty of money into Alberta’s oil sands so that they can secure their energy future in America’s backyard.

As for the U.S., it is on track to import as much as 3 million barrels of oil per day from Alberta’s oil sands by the end of this decade. Right now the U.S. consumes almost 1 million barrels per day of Canadian oil sands. Yet there are Greens in the Obama administration and in the Democrat party that want to derail oil sands imports in pursuit of more expensive green energy technologies—technologies that frankly do not yet exist and may not exist for years or even generations.

The politics of Green are blissfully ignorant that Canada has one of the largest stable oil deposits in the world just a scant distance from America’s borders.

If the Greens get their way and reduce or shut down the flow of Canadian oil, the U.S. will be more vulnerable, paying higher energy prices; in some cases for oil held by maniacal mullahs. And inevitably, China, America’s major competitor, will be enriched and empowered. If you ask me, it is a pretty stiff price to pay over some dead ducks.

Action To Take
Could Alberta’s oil sands do a better job of cleaning up the mess they are making? You bet. Meanwhile there is too much at stake for the U.S. to turn its back on this rich and secure energy source. As a result oil sands stocks will continue to prosper. I recommend you buy Suncor Energy Inc. (NYSE, SU, $30.82) and Canadian Oil Sands Trust (TSX: COS-UN.TO, C$27.52).

In fact just last week the Oil & Gas Journal wrote: “The blowout in the Gulf of Mexico and resulting ban on deepwater drilling in U.S. waters may prove a boon for Canadian oil producers,” including oil sands stocks. I couldn’t agree more.

Yours for real wealth and good health,

John Myers
Myers’ Energy and Gold

John Myers

is editor of Myers’ Energy and Gold Report. The son of C.V. Myers, the original publisher of Oilweek Magazine, John has worked with two of the world’s largest investment publishers, Phillips and Agora. He was the original editor for Outstanding Investments and has more than 20 years experience as an investment writer. John is a graduate of the University of Calgary. He has worked for Prudential Securities in Spokane, Wash., as a registered investment advisor. His office location in Calgary, Alberta, is just minutes away from the headquarters of some of the biggest players in today’s energy markets. This gives him personal access to everyone from oil CEOs to roughnecks, where he learns secrets from oil insiders he passes on to his subscribers. Plus, during his years in Spokane he cultivated a network of relationships with mining insiders in Idaho, Oregon and Washington.

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  • s c

    Greenpeace, the Sierra Club and Corporate Ethics, while they are happy being in bed together, have little or nothing constructive to offer America. They are indicative of Hitlerian mind control used by agenda-driven groups.
    You’d think people would get tired of enduring a mindset based on pc ‘persuasion.’ Their ‘idea generators’ suffer from an extreme lack of talent, and one wonders how they can be worth whatever they’re paid when they use brilliant, compassionate concepts like ‘sacrifice – or else.’ Or ‘think global – think surrender.’
    How long it will take these geniuses to tell us when they plan to replace the oil business with green techniques that offer better alternatives to petroleum? Perhaps 50 years? Perhaps never?

    • refuse2lose

      These various “green”organizations are not worried about saving animals or clean energy,they want control over the worlds population. And while the members of these groups will storm government buildings and declare that our world will end if they don’t get their way,they drive around in gas guzzling vehicles and use jets to reach their destinations.

      It is called liberal hypocrisy,practically every liberal is guilty of it,and it disgusts me.

      • eddie47d

        How do you get to where you are going? Are Tea Party folks guilty of “storming” government buildings? How about gun rights groups or anti-abortions groups? Neither side is necessarily wrong but that could make you the hypocrite.

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          Did you not read his article? Those green groups do these things. Not the Tea Party. Not the NRA. Did you miss something here? Come on man, read it.

          • eddie47d

            I sure did! Did you or didn’t you catch refuse2lose’s spin?

          • Jana

            Nope, and yours didn’t make sense.

          • eddie47d

            jANA (OLD WHITE GUY,TOO), Tea party folks fly to Washington or Nashville to have demonstrations or conventions (that’s great),but they use allot of gas They storm Senate offices with their demands and drive suv’s to their rallies. I’m only repeating what was said in the opposite context.Now do you get it. You (Berberoni) love mocking others yet when it’s turned around it’s not so funny. Right!

          • Jana

            eddie,
            The TEA Party people are not the ones condemning everyone for driving and using by products of the oil, so they are not being hypocritical of others doing so. Unlike Al Gore who uses his private jet and vast amounts of jet fuel and yet gets rich off of carbon imprints, as well as his lowly 30,000 sq ft. house uses more electricity in one month than a whole city block of houses uses in a year.
            Its ironical to most of us that the ones crying wolf the loudest are the wolves.

          • http://ahalbert@smart-technology.net Allan

            Eddie-

            Tea Partyers don’t use fossil fuels and lecture others not to. So your argument made no sense, as you can probably tell from the comments you received.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Edduh!
            I haven’t seen any e-boards wanting and offering perfect strangers rides to the green demonstrations! I have, however, seen them for the TEA Party trips. I ahve also seen reports of P-lousys flight costs and of course her bar tab going on trips that the PEOPLE pay for!!!!

        • old white guy

          holy crap you are dumb. it is people like you that are the problem. go live in a bloody cave with no electricity, running water or central heat. call me when you have had enough. moron.

          • Denniso

            More hyperbole and exageration,again…All the environmental groups want to do is find energy sources that don’t destroy the earth,upon which we are entirely dependent. Part of their plan involves cutting back on the huge amount of wasted energy that is part of our consumming culture. We are 5% of the worlds population yet we use 25% of the worlds energy…something wrong there, don’t you imagine?

            The other aspect to the ‘green’ plan is so called renewable energy that also has low environmental impact,unlike oil,coal and nuclear…
            or as your lover boy Bush would say,’nucular’. All energy has some degree of impact on the earth,the trick is to use what has the lowest harmful impact. ‘Greens’ don’t want to live in caves,or they would be already. They want the country and world to strike a better balance between a decent livestyle w/ wise use of our resources, and the self destructive path we’re obviously currently on. The oil spill in the Gulf isn’t the only one going on, and there are 2700 abandoned wells there already and some w/ leakage problems…what’s going to happen w/ those wells in 50,100 or 1000 yrs?

            We don’t have to destroy our only planet in order to have energy for a decent society…we just have to be a little smarter than we have been for the past 150 yrs.

      • Pathfinder

        These groups are full of WATERMELONS: Green on the outside and RED on the inside.

        • ross

          Denniso,Denniso,Denniso…
          It is refreshing to find such innocence. “ALLLLL the Greens want…” is lofty, wonderful resolutions to environmental issues, in your mind. They’re doing it for the children, of course.

          What planet do you come from? When they cooked up the fraudulent Spotted Owl fiasco, and wrecked the Western U.S. timber/lumber industry, with the resulting losses of jobs, industry and tax base, you bought their jive too. The owl never was threatened, the population studies proved it then and going forward to this day, and the Federal forests are a disaster area now because of no management. But to this day, Greens consider that disaster a “victory”, and 99% of the population is oblivious to what happened and what is happening now.

          If you and the rest of the U.S.population would get around just a little bit, you wouldn’t be so easily manipulated by the CHICKEN LITTLE INDUSTRY. But the chances of you and the rest of the enviro-lemmings actually going anywhere (other than as tourists to tourist traps)is essentially zero. You have no overview of our National Forests and their sorry health, for instance, and you will never be at or near the Athabasca Tar Sands. You people just…do…NOT…get around. This helps to make you an easy mark for the Utopians (Greens)and their rhetoric, and your failure to understand that Radical Environmentalism is where Liberals went to hide when the electorate woke up to the failure of a Marxist, anti-enterprise mob.

          • Denniso

            If not for all the environmental battles against big industry,you would already be living on a virtually dead planet….is that what you want? Toxic air for your kids to inhale,poisoned drinking water,clearcut forests,radioactive waste bubbling up,mountain tops blown off in a mad search for coal,rivers dried up by too large a population depending on them??? If you think things are bad now just see what happens if environmental concerns fade and industry gets it’s way entirely…

            You and your kind have no love for the earth,except in it’s capacity to produce money.

    • perry

      the sooner you quit dragging your feet, the sooner we can get off the oil as the primary driver of the economy and move on to the next level of planetary development.

      Too many people in the ‘we need more oil business’.
      You got your dreams and propaganda too.

      • http://none John Detwiler

        We have as you suggested been working on ideas to better our standard of living and freedom from oil. But the one thing that you forget we are years away from even a little less dependency on oil. And truthfully (Literly)you need to get your head out of the sand. We will never be entirely free from the need of oil. So wake up and face reality or are you one of the glass breaking,vehicle burning Anarchists?

        • Denniso

          Never is a pretty big word. We have known for at least 40 yrs that we would face an energy crunch and increasing environmental issues w/ burning hydrocarbons…and what do we do? Big oil and their lapdog ‘conservatives’ fight essentially all moves in a positive direction toward energy independence,cutting demand and more sustainable sources. So, we are almost no further along toward a more healthy program for the country than 4 decades ago…

          You must have a pretty good crystal ball to be able to state categorically that we will NEVER get off of oil. That sort of adament declaration is the hallmark of the Repub party who think they know everthing and can predict the future perfectly. It is true that the Repubs are trying to keep us in the dark ages and stop all advancement
          toward a better future for all of us,and the earth.

          • ross

            You’re the engineer–deliver the alternative(s) to oil. It’s easy. I know that because the Utopians (you and your fellow travelers) say it is!. And I know you’ll do it without a PROFIT motive (hope I don’t get 86′d here for using a dirty word). Of course, you keep placing your orders for more petroleum ALL day EVERYDAY, and then sanctimoniously calling out the oil companies and anybody who doesn’t trash them.

            Can’t blame you for being a Fundamentalist Liberal though (of the Elmer Gantry sort–preaching against eeeville, whilst partaking of it at every opportunity). An engineer might see job security in endless (however meaningless) regulation and scare-mongering, as does the entire Green movement. Engineering experiences no regulation–just job opportunities as increasing burdens are placed on the private sector.

            AMBITION AND SUCCESS MUST BE PUNISHED. VOTE DEMOCRAT!!!

          • Buster

            You can’t have a reasonable discussion with these conservatives. If you don’t agree with their twisted, unscientific, and religious views, they’ll just post more lies and attack your character. Many of them don’t even know computers have a spelling check feature. Check out jerry b b to learn about the age of the Earth and Edgar Cayce (misspelled Casey) and Jean Dixon. I can’t believe these people are allowed to vote.

          • Denniso

            I’m a self employed engineer/architect and hate unnecessary regulation,but have learned why we have and need some degree of regulation,w/o which the unsuspecting public is victimized…financially and physically.

            Because it’s tough to move to better,safer and more sustainable energy
            sources for the world doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be trying and taking
            incremental steps in that direction. We can save as much as 15% of our energy use by effective conservation alone. We can fairly quickly get up to another 15% from solar and wind…that gets us close to energy independence. If we don’t even try and allow the oil and coal and nuclear(or as Bush would say,nucular)industries and their enablers in the Repub party to continue to block meaningful progress,then no, we will never get off our oil dependence and all the
            crap that goes along w/ it.

            You can stay stuck in the mud and watch others move ahead to a better future for us and the earth.

      • Jana

        perry,
        Then I assume you have given up riding in or driving in any type of motor vehicle, given up wearing anything made out of the by products, which even includes your tennis shoes. Oops, you have to give up your computer, it is made of plastic which is a by product of oil. No more TV, no more radio. Hey when you put your life in order and quit using any and all products or by products, then you can talk. When you come up with some good solid cost effective ideas, then you can talk. Meanwhile I will tune you out.

        • http://?? Joe H.

          Jana,
          If he’s got one, he better cut up the ole credit card as well!!!

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Or we can do like Carter did. You know, form the Department of Energy, to end our dependance on Foreign Oil. Only now, all these years later, we use more of it than ever before, and this un-necessary government agency has 280,000 employees and contracts some hundred thousand more, and we are all paying for it. This is how the democratic think tank works, and we sure as hell do not need more of it. And instead of addressing anything, this current democratic admin is creating more and more government agencies, that we will all get to pay for, for the rest of our lives, while more and more liberals that they hire to run these agencies, get richer and richer. Of course, when theyve got ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN and MSNBC in their pockets, they can just go on TV and through the brain suckers in everyone’s living room, and blame it on Bush or someone else. That seems to be their mantra.

        • eddie47d

          I think it was Nixon during the Arab oil embargo (long lines at the pump) that said we shouldn’t be so dependent on foreign oil. Nice try in trying to pin it all on Democrats,so typical of you.

        • Normal Guy

          Bebe

          Well I know that pointing out facts is pretty much useless to anyone on this thread but as usual the suggestion that the DOE is something thrown together by Carter to lower oil prices blah blah blah… is just a distorted little piece of information taken completely out of context. The DOE is responsible for everything to do with energy from nuclear weapons on down. Lose your Foxspeak mantra and go to their site for the historical background and mandate.

          The roots are from the early 1940’s and are focused on the development of nuclear energy and more specifically nuclear weapons.
          Here is a link to their about the DOE page.

          http://www.energy.gov/about

          After looking at this read the history – then distort the information in you conspiracy addled mind and blame it on Carter Obama and the Rothschild’s – you guys are really pitiful. Rather than rail against the talking points that you know nothing about why not actually do some research!! Here is a little taste of reality.

          June 29, 1973
          President Nixon establishes the Energy Policy Office. The office is responsible for formulating and coordinating energy policies at the presidential level.

          November 7, 1973
          President Nixon launches Project Independence, with the goal of achieving energy self-sufficiency by 1980. Recalling the Manhattan Project, Nixon declares that American science, technology, and industry can free the United States from dependence on foreign oil.

          December 4, 1973
          The Federal Energy Office replaces the Energy Policy Office. The new office is assigned the task of allocating reduced petroleum supplies to refiners and consumers and of controlling the price of oil and gasoline. William Simon is named Administrator.

          May 7, 1974
          President Nixon signs the Federal Administration Act of 1974. The Federal Energy Administration replaces the Federal Energy Office.

          August 4, 1977
          President Carter signs the Department of Energy Organization Act. The Federal Energy Administration and Energy Research and Development Administration are abolished.

          August 5, 1977
          James R. Schlesinger is sworn in as first Secretary of Energy.

          October 1, 1977
          DOE is activated. Bringing together a score of organizational entities from a dozen departments and agencies, the new department is also given responsibility for the nuclear weapons program.

          November 9, 1978
          President Carter signs the National Energy Act, which includes the National Energy Conservation Policy Act, the Power Plant and Industrial Fuel Use Act, the Public Utilities Regulatory Policy Act, the Energy Tax Act, and the Natural Gas Policy Act.

          Oh by the way during the oil crisis, Carter was able to get US consumtion to decrease by some 25%. Lower temperatures in office buildings 55 MPH speed limits etc.

          • old white guy

            ok, same reply as to eddie 47.

          • eddie47d

            Old white guy Are you dead too or just playing us along with your dumbing down?

          • http://?? Joe H.

            normal guy,
            were you working during the carter years?? I was and part of the reason that the oil usage went down was 1) limited supplies = long lines. 2) wage freezes that dropped output at almost all jobs!!!

          • Normal Guy

            Joe

            Wage freezes were put in place under Nixon, the first oil crisis occurred in 1973 under Nixon and he regulated prices keeping them artificially low, when Carter came in he deregulated the pricing on oil to allow it to approach world prices (about $15 a barrel regulated US price, $30 a barrel world price)Prudhoe bay came on line imports dropped significantly and US production came on line.

            During this period domestic U.S. oil output rose sharply from the large Prudhoe Bay fields while oil imports fell sharply. However, since there were no price controls on imported oil, this had no impact on boosting the supply of gasoline in 1979. Hence, long lines appeared at gas stations, as they had six years earlier during the 1973 oil crisis.

            So maybe you are just a bit senile and can’t remember what actually happened or maybe you just don’t have a clue.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Normal Guy,
            I admit I made a mistake. I am neither senile nor stupid. I will say one thing though I will admit it will you do so or are you one of those who never make them???

          • http://NewsMax David Combs

            Carter lowered thc consumption to 25 per cent.
            He lowered home owners.
            He lowered farm owners.
            He lowered car owners.
            He did raise the interest rate to 21 per cent.
            Thank you Mr. President

      • Dale on left coast

        Perry . . . what are you smokin???
        There is nothing to replace oil tomorrow . . . there is enough oil and gas in North America to last another 100 years, we just need to go and get it. When an realistic alternative is invented, besides nuclear, it will take over the market place. Windmills and solar panels don’t make the grade.
        Anthropogenic Gorebull Warming was a massive LIE . . . the globe is cooling and ice packs are growing on both poles, as the polar bears grow in numbers.

        • Normal Guy

          Hey dopey old guy

          Thought I should point out that you are slagging a guy who is on your side of the fence in crazy conspiracy world. I guess when you don’t have a clue it is easy to lash out at anyone, you go get em.

          • ross

            …Crazy Conspiracy World…would that be like “Wall Street is out to get you, the oil companies are out to get you, rich people are out to get you (RICH means anybody who has more than you), everybody except doctrinaire Progressives are racist, FOX News reports NO facts, Tea Party activists are all militiamen and racists, there’s an economic pie of finite size, and if your slice isn’t big enough, then somebody STOLE yours…”ya mean THAT crazy conspiracy world?

          • TIME

            Ross, Great post!

        • Deborah

          Scientists are reporting that their beliefs that oil, such as in Saudi and the Gulf is something the earth makes naturally. Not dino drippings.
          They said it happens naturally to aid in the movement of the plates.

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenic_petroleum_origin

          • Jana

            Deborah, I have heard this theory before too. I also tend to agree with it. They go back to old fields and get more oil out of them when they thought they were dry. I know that some would say oh we have better technology today, but I am not so sure that is all there is to it.

          • ross

            The oil replenishing the depleted aquifers is older oil than that taken out originally; it is possible to determine difference in age of hydrocarbons…which supports what you are saying.

          • Jana

            Thanks Ross

        • dean shamblen

          the world IS getting wormer, the ice packs on both poles is getting smaller, do you ever look at global satilite pictures? poler bear populations are declining, mountain glaciers are melting all over the globe or are allready gone. glacier national park in montana used to have over 100 glaciers, now there are only a few left. greenland is melting faster then scientist thought it would. the planet is getting hotter on average every year. the oil and coal industry never tell you the truth. niether do conservitives, fox “news” IS THE PROPIGANDA CHANNEL. they shouldent get away with calling themselves a news channel. if and when are planet dies SO WILL WE, don’t listen to the lies from the right, they don’t care about you, the u.s.a, or the health of the planet. all they care about is making money and power, so don’t believe the lie that the earth is getting cooler becouse it isn’t, get your head out of the “tar” sand, and learn from real scientist who haven’t been bought off by the energy industry.

          • ross

            Here’s a truth from a Non-Utopian (you know–people you call “Conservative”): YOU flunked English and especially spelling.
            Education has certainly failed SOME people (it most certainly can’t be THEIR fault).

          • TIME

            Dude, ever hear of natural cycle’s?
            Ever hear of sun spots?
            Ever hear of why sun spots occur?

            I see when the quasi liberals post this stupid question over and over again they think its rather funny, so here it is back at you dude;
            ” What do you want to go back to the good old days?”
            Would that be PRE BC?

            So explain just who will be making money hand over fist if Cap & Trade is passed? Any clues dude?

            Then explain how Cap & Trade will make any differance at all to the Enviroment?
            That is keeping in mind that the same amounts of crap will still be pumped into the air & waters etc.?

            Can you with a straigh face and being totaly honest really think or say that a law that restricts YOU from owning a car, or having heat in the winter or air in the summer, or grasping that it will set the standards of the “REALLY Wealthy,” as they who do have heat and air have and the “REALLY POOR” the rest who don’t have heat or air.

            As in just hows that going to work out again?

      • old white guy

        same as eddie 47. get your head out moron.

        • eddie47d

          Go back to the dead you clueless simpleton

      • Sgt Mike

        Perry

        Agreed,
        now before any one “”goes Off” on me I own a truck,
        I make part of my living hauling to the Alberta Oil Fields

        RE: Being GREEN, as I watch some of these posts that pass for debate I am reminded of the old phrase FIRST LIER NEVER HAS A CHANCH but I am also reminded as I criss cross the US and Canada, the Earth is changeing, AND AS i visit places that when I was a KID 60 plus years ago that were green and cool running water today I see BROWN, no water or People and buildings.

        I’d like to throw out the phrase BRIGHT GREEN, it is the concept that YES we must reduce our use of oil, we are in fact destroying this nest we call earth BUT BRIGHT GREEN also recognizes that we can not over night change the world.
        PEOPLE MATTER,

        I ask to ALL who read this site, PLEASE, PLEASE let us all attempt to look at FACTS, realize there are truly people in this world who will fight to the last drop of OUR BLOOD to hold onto the old power base.
        (To those who might think I am a bleeding heart
        I spent 36 years in the military)

        The world IS CHANGEING, America has long been the leader, let us realize GREEN is coming, in fact much of the world is balls out to get there realizeing it is the future.

        Let us stop dragging our feet, move ahead of them creating new jobs and YES VERY LIKELY SAVING THIS LITTLE LIFE BOAT WE LIVE ON.

        Let us also realize that as we move forward or if in fact we are to move forward we must take care of those who have WORKED to create this nation, NOTE I SAY WORKED, not those who have played the shell game with paper that is supposed to represent TRUST, trust that we can trade it for food and shelter.

        They will continue to attempt to hold onto power by getting us to fight over scraps as they laugh at us, wave a flag and throw food in the trash.

        LET US LEAD THE CHANGE NOT BE RUN OVER BY IT.

        • dean shamblen

          AMEN

        • http://NewsMax David Combs

          You can keep the change

      • Pathfinder

        Face facts folks. None of your proposed “green technologies” produces sufficient energy. The needed number of kilowatt hours just are NOT there. For fixed (immobile) generating stations, nuclear power is a good alternative to coal and/or oil. However it is organizations like green peace are the ones who sue to stop the developement of atomic power plants. Unfortunately, atomic power is not practical for moving vehicles. At present petroleum products are the ONLY practical solution for moving systems. Fortunately, there is an adequate supply of oil to buy the time neccessary so we can develope the new technology that we need. In the meantime, we must continue to use oil until a practical new method can be developed.

      • 45caliber

        perry:
        I have no problem getting off oil. In fact, I believe that oil should not be used for energy at all.

        But I’m not so stupid as to insist we cut off using oil cold turkey without having anything else to fall back to using. And you and your friends are insisting we do just that.

        Can you see Al Gore giving up using his jet or the energy for his mansion simply because we stop using oil? I can’t. But the fact remains that if we did stop using oil (and coal) immediately 90% of the country would be out of power.

        Yet those who insist that we not use oil are also upset at other energy sources. “Windmills kill birds and look terrible! Shut them down!” “Nuclear plants are unsafe! Shut them down!” “Solar energy plants require stripping large sections of land of all trees! Shut them down!” And so on.

        What do you REALLY want us to do? Go back to burning wood? No, that would use up too many trees and would create a lot of smoke.

        I guess we go back to the caveman days – no energy use at all and everyone starves.

        • 45caliber

          The real problem I think I am seeing is that the “Green” people are in fact saying that there are simply too many people – and everyone else who isn’t a member of the “green” movement should be eliminated.

          • ross

            …Greens also believe there is a Social Security TRUST FUND, and a tooth fairy as well…

    • 45caliber

      Greenpeace, the Sierra Club, and most other “enviornmental” groups are interested in one thing – money. They get donations for people who feel good about “saving the _____” (fill in your own word). They get money by tying up renewal of licenses for plants. (“Pay us $10,000 and we’ll drop the protest against your license renewal.”) They get money for organizing protests (such as the company that paid them to protest against Freone.) Check and see what many of their officers are paid – both in salary and expense money.

      • ross

        Just one more thing…they get TAXPAYER MONEY for their massive legal campaigns…most people don’t know that.

    • Joe

      Wow there are a lot really messed up people on this website. So much for tolerance or open discussions. I have been reading posts for half and hour and I have not read anything but the rants of people who just want to call each other names. That accomplishes nothing. Try harder and make a difference.

      • Charles Newman

        Joe,
        So, “intolerant” and “ranters” are examples of the name calling you prefer? It’s OK to disagree, but when you do what you critsise others of doing, you act like a fool. Becoming less tolerant of fools is a good idea.

    • Charles Newman

      s c
      The don’t want better solutions, they want more poverty and misery, which usually translates to more Democrat votes and support for socialists and communists. This is what they are, don’t be deceived by their lies.

    • Trip

      Groups like the Sierra Club and NRDC (even Greenpeace has their moments) have got to do what you are basically calling brainwashing. Without groups like these to hassle Washington your beloved corporate giants and black goldrush investors would simply walk all over our natural resources without an ounce of concern for the damage left behind, we have all seen the the results of lies paying their way across the hill. I do not have a problem with big oil and energy research in general but I do have a problem with this group’s irresponsibility when it comes to getting what it wants, essentially mass profit at whatever cost. You tear down mountains in Appalachia leaving behind planted city park like fields and tell us what a gift you have given back and now you want access to the Rockies, I’ll keep the mountains; you tell us that massive accidents in oil will not or can not happen so that Washington will approve your drilling leases in the Chukchi and Beaufort Seas without investigating your technological ability to deal with a disaster, may I remind you of Deepwater Horizon; by the way, Did Shell Oil ever clean up the Niger River Delta? You people want to hack down the only groups that strive to make you accountable for your irresponsible and destructive behavior. Its not about shutting down big oil and the energy biz its about maintaining checks and balances against absolute power and control, which I’m sure you would like to have. Another question, How do you expect these groups and concerned citizens to approach big oil’s massive power base? By crying to mommy? You people are amazing and I’m fairly certain you will not be happy until you turn the planet into a Madmax like wasteland? I don’t think your worthless dollar supported spine would last long in that setting.

  • Viktor Leben

    It all comes down to control of machinery used in American Industry. Without cheap energy America cannot re-industrialize. Expensive energy will result in more jobs being exported overseas, the closure of more factories and the bankruptcy of the middle class…….

    If you don’t have the energy to run the machines then you can’t produce wealth. American industries carrying capacity and ability to supply a living wage is being reduced. The total irony of this scenario is the land being “protected” by the “Greens” will have no productive purpose. Why ? Because these lands are not being opened up for agricultural development ! Not even on an old early 19th century model when animals (horses, oxens etc.) were used to exploit the land !!!!!

    A 100 years from now, if these trends continue, what type of technologically stagnated world will our descendants be living in ? Will their be no machines to conquer creation ? Is it a return to the poverty the Industrial revolution did away with ?

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      China doesnt seem to be stopped from becoming an industrial giant, and they are using the same energy sources we are.

      • eddie47d

        China needs to keep it’s nose out of Alberta for we (Canada) certainly don’t need to fuel their energy demands. We can use our resources without being environmentally reckless if we have the balls to do so. China is also seeking permits for drilling off the coast of Cuba. If oil is so important then why don’t we lift that embargo and work out a deal with Cuba. Instead of letting China move in.

        • 45caliber

          eddie:
          China is already drilling off the coast of Florida – under a permit from Cuba. They supposedly have other wells going in elsewhere in the Gulf too.

          I believe that this is due to Oblama making a deal with China – “you can have our oil if you will loan me more money for my programs.”

          True or not, I don’t know. But I do know that China didn’t want to loan us any more money – in fact, they wanted to sell the treasury notes they did have – but changed their minds after Hillary visited them. And now they are allowed to drill for oil in our lands.

          • ross

            If I owe you $1000, you’ve got leverage on me. If I owe you a million, I have leverage on you.

            Therefore, it’s not clear WHO has WHO in this China/U.S. relationship…

        • dean shamblen

          i agree with you, we should work with cuba, or we’ll be working for china, and we should be building nuclier power plants. the big oil co. have the money and knowhow to develope alternative forms of energy, they should lead the way, instead of getting in the way, but unfortionitly they care more about short term profit instead of long term sustainability.

  • Jim H.

    Here is a source of oil, that could be sent by pipeline and not ship(no oil spill) coming from a next door country and not supporting a middle east country and someone still has to gripe. The Sierra Club relies on contributions, so they need a cause to be against to get donors. It’s all about donation money.

    • Meg

      You have a good point…I would rather see oil go through a pipe line as long as they keep a good check on the line. All companies need to follow good standards!

      • Jana

        Meg, it seems like bad politics are even in these big companies. That is why they make big donations to Presidents like Obama.

      • DS

        Don’t forget that the terrorist green organizations are the ones that blow up pipelines…

    • William

      Jim thats why it should be made public to all of us who it is that donates to these sorry damned people and we should all stop buying anything from any one who supports these people. if they quit getting donations then maybe they would have to get a real job. I would not give one of them a dime if they were starving,

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      It keeps them in business. Kind of like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton. They create racism and stir up racism to keep themselves in the money. Without it, they are broke and fade away to nothing. But as long as they stir it up and cause it, people give them mass amounts of money, then they are on the first bus out of town. These greenies are the same way. They pound and pound and pound on an issue, and get people to give them money and off they go to the next popular cause.

    • eddie47d

      It’s not about donations;it’s about the environmental damages that are incurred where ever oil companies exist. Energy companies are a dirty business and we have to cut them some slack for making our lives more comfortable;but only up to a point. When they do more harm than good then the pendulum swings the other way.

      • old white guy

        eddie did you have a crap today. talk about environment damage.

        • eddie47d

          Gee,old and nasty. There were 23 major oil spills in the world in the year 2000. 5 were in the USA Sorry old and nasty white guy things haven’t gotten much better.Apparently not for you either. Maybe an enema will help.

          • 45caliber

            Give it a try. It can’t harm you.”

      • ML

        I have solar on my pool and home and am enjoying the cut in my energy bills. The real estate lady in my neighborhood told me it will add to the value of my home if I ever plan to sell it. Solar has great advantages and I would like to see us building more plants here for the tiles,etc. I love the lower Bills and it makes sense to me to go greener and cleaner! There is Freedom when you see your lower bills folks!

        • ross

          …can’t quarrel w/that–here in SW Idaho, my solar blanket heats the pool to 83 degrees…warm enough.

    • Pathfinder

      It is about donations. But it is also that these people are not environmentalists. They are WATERMELONS: Green on the outside ans RED on the inside.

    • 45caliber

      But they don’t want us to use oil at all! There was a big fuss about the Alaskan Pipeline. “It will spill oil!” (It has had a few minor leaks but nothing like flooding the territory.) “It will prevent the caribou from migrating!” (No, it hasn’t.) “The caribou will die off!” (Actually, they like the pipeline – it’s warm in winter.)

      Most “green” groups (I put it in quotes because they aren’t as much worried about green plants as they are green money.) are against ANY changes to anything.

      They all forget one thing when they talk about the environment. Man is part of the environment.

      • dean shamblen

        and man is killing the environment,and 1oo.000 gallons isn’t a minor leak

    • dean shamblen

      pipelines leak all the time, their is a million gallons of oil in the kallamizzo {however it’s spelled} river in michigan.

  • Bruce

    Is it not of interest that {RARE EARTH} is now being minned by “SLAVE LABOR.” Keep in mind that “All of the GREEN products use RARE EARTH” for there production. Now ask so whats the real goal again?

    • Al Sieber

      China is the largest producer of Rare Elements (R E E)we have a large deposit of REE’s s.w. of Las Vegas, Nv. on I-15 at mountain pass, going towards Baker, Calif. they closed all the land around there for wilderness areas.

      • 45caliber

        Reminds me of Clinton closing the mining of coal in Utah. His reason was to get the “green” vote in California.

      • dean shamblen

        there are large deposits of rare earth minerals in south east nebraska

        • dean shamblen

          ER,i meant rare elements

    • esarhaddon

      If you don’t like the use of so called Slave Labor then send them back to Mexico!

    • Pathfinder

      Just like a watermelon: green on the outside and red on the inside; so also is the sierra club.

      • 45caliber

        When Carter was President, he signed an order placing 96% of the state of Alaska into Federal Lands that could not be developed. If you find a mountain of gold there now, you are forbidden to mine it – but required to tell the feds so they can sell it to someone. You cannot live on it anywhere.

        The Sierra Club was one of those groups that got him to do this. There is one section of Alaska set aside as a wilderness area for backpackers only. It is so big that you can’t carry enough food to get to the center and back out again without starving. But at least once a year the senior officers of the Sierra Club are brought it by the fed. government on a horseback trip at gov. expense to “inspect” the area. Basically they ride to a point where no backpackers can reach and spend two free weeks fishing and enjoying something no one else is allowed to enjoy.

        • ross

          The Sierra Club and their ilk are responsible for the degradation of all Western U.S. National Forests. All are turning into very sick forests (fly over them or drive through ‘em), with a faded look due to stress from disease and insects.

          It is a very real disaster, due to no meaningful timber stand management as National Forest policy.

          Climate change is not a major factor in this disaster–it is uncontrolled disease and insect infestation. Adjacent PRIVATE timberlands are immediately identifiable for their healthier, greener appearance.

          The “Greens”(oh the irony) will never be held accountable for the damage they have done to our National Forests. They are, essentially, unaccountable. The media does nothing but encourage them, never questioning…

  • Doc Sarvis

    The choice between energy security and some scarred land is a false choice. We have other options. I have enough confidence in America that we can succeed in transitioning away from our oil based economy. Americans who are not afraid to make some sacrifices for the benefit of our country can make our country a leader in this transition.

    As for the Greens wanting to count on Arab oil; that is false too. What the Greens want, and I think all Americans would prefer, is an energy policy moving away from oil all together. If you think oil sand imports are going to keep prices down you are, to say the least, misinformed. Extracting oil from sands and shales is hugely expensive and environmentaly destructive. Transitioning to other sources of energy will be expensive too, at least initially, but it is the best path we can take for our energy policy and our national security.

    • Doug Palla

      Lunatic right, left wing element’s, socialism, politics, energy, right and wrong is a battleground to control everyone’s life regardless of the out come. I just wish people could evolve into one voice of survival and stop the toxic war threats against one another. The attacks on The United States is nothing new. The politicians and special interests are control freaks bent on setting society back 150 years. An obvious solution to dependence on oil is natural gas thru converting vast fleets to run on this abundant fuel. No matter how much environmental groups protest the use of oil society must go on. Our countries security depends on it. Hampering free trade for a political statement is nothing but blackmail and immoral, a word not used by the leftist movement unless it is to justify the means of obstruction. Creating clean fuel from a dirty business needs some improvement and new technology, it should be mandatory, but not as a means of destruction of the oil age.

      • eddie47d

        Natural gas is somewhat cleaner than oil but allot of chemicals are poured into the ground to get that gas out. Thus you have contaminated ground water. All solutions need to be put on the table and that includes natural gas but it can’t be the only option.

    • William

      doc. how the hell do you figure on lubricating those turbines with out petroleum? do you think metal on metal will do just fine? or maybe you plan on using bacon grease,

      • Doc Sarvis

        My argument is to transition from an “oil based energy policy/economy”. I did not say we could eliminate the use of oil but we should drastically reduce it. When we develope an energy policy and energy infrastructure that is not based on oil we can turn to domestic sources of oil for the MUCH smaller demand for that resource.

        • Coservative at Birth

          Exatly what are the alternatives to Oil, Coal, Nautural Gas, and Nuclear Power that we can afford. Wind Turbines kill birds, disturb wild life habitats, human existence, and only work some of the time. Solar power is limited as well. They are both cost prohibitive, and cannot supply all of the electricity. And, just how do you propose We transport ourselves? You are either totally ignorant or a kool-aid drinking totalitarian socialist. Let us decide in November. Give me Liberty or Give me Death.

          • Doc Sarvis

            Coservative at Birth

            I’m not sure what “Coservative” means but it sounds like you have little faith in the citizens of this great nation. Americans have overcome many difficult situations and the American spirit can cope with the energy challenges we are up against. I think most patriotic Americans will agree that we are up to this task.

            There are definitly challenges in moving to new sources of energy. The largest challenge is getting people off their butts and working for positive results as opposed to waiting for the oil to run out (which is too rapidly approaching). We are already spending too much to keep us in oil (military budgets and the lives of good American soldiers) and that will only increase.

            There are a number of emergent energy technologies that show promise. The problem is that so little time and money has been invested in developing these promising sources. Then there are some existing technologies such as upgraded nuclear and some appropriatly sited hydroelectric plants. Solar and wind do work but need more development. Better siting and better design of wind will lower the wildlife costs. Wind and solar work well together in many places. Often winds are greater after the sun goes down and of course the sun seems to work better when the sun is out. There are other potential sources I have not mentioned as well.

            One big factor is not the source of our energy but the wise use of it. Energy conservation and efficient use of energy is something that will be a huge step for our energy independence and national security.

          • eddie47d

            Conservative at birth; Your rant makes you the extremist.

          • http://ahalbert@smart-technology.net Allan

            Doc Sarvis-

            Don’t you think if the green technologies were so promising to invest in that the current energy industry would be leading the way to secure market share? As for American spirit and ability to overcome problems, that exists, but the real problem greens have with the public is credibility — too many lies and too much exaggeration. The spotted owl issue was never about owls, it was about shutting down the timber industry, and if you look behind the scenes, you’ll see the profit motive. Americans aren’t all opposed to profit yet, but they like to see profits made honestly.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Doc,
            If solar is so green, then why did the greenies stop the building of the biggest solar plant in the world in energy strapped Kalifornia because of a tortise and a lizard???? Evidently you greenies have your priorities crossed!!!

        • Sgt Mike

          WELL SAID

          Think Evolution NOT Revolution

        • dean shamblen

          if we could get dems in big coal states to go along, we could’ve had an energy bill, but it died in the senate becouse of the republicans and democrats who did’nt have the courage to vote for the bill.

      • hflashman

        We still have oil reserves to tap for lubricants etc … it’s the power generation aspect of oil that drains our national economy and has us dependent upon the Middle East and Big Corporate America…thank Bush/Cheney for that. They put the nails in our coffin. Funny how no one was outraged when Bush kissed the Shiek and they walked holding hands. But then…Obama bowing in a diplomatically approved gesture is traitorous…holding hands and kissing the shieks isn’t. Go figure.

        • Jim Cumber

          No, as a person trained about the Middle East and Islam, I can state, categorically, that Barry Soetoro (his LEGAL name from when he was “naturalized” as a citizen of Indonesia and adopted as the son of Lolo Soetoro) bowing to the Saudi Royalty was merely a demonstration of his devotion to Islam. The “dirty little secret” of Constitutionally illegal, White House occupant, Barry Soetoro, is that he is a “closet” Muslim. He follows all the protocols: for example his wife, Michelle, never accompanies him on visits to Arab countries which abide by strict, Shari’ah Law. I predict that the “gloves will come off” after Barry Soetoro is either reelected for a second term as the Constitutionally illegal, pseudo-POTUS or, more likely, the 22nd Amendment is repealed and he becomes our first Muslim “POTUS for Life” and mandates Shari’ah Law for us all: MARK MY WORDS!

          • eddie47d

            Jim Cumbers I wouldn’t mark (put money) on anything you just said. Your way past the koolaid stage.

          • Jana

            But eddie, you are from Canada. That explains a lot of your liberal thinking.

          • sheldon

            Now there’s some ridiculous stereotyping! The last I heard, the ruling party in Canada was the CONSERVATIVE party.

          • ross

            …ANYTHING he says, Eddie? Occidental College says Barry Soetoro was Barack’s name when he attended there. Are you accusing Occidental of lying? They’re a bastion of Liberal integrity–they wouldn’t lie. Are you saying that Obama DIDN’T use the name Barry Soetoro? WTF…you’re not beleiving ANY of it?

        • Joyce from Loris

          hflashman, you have a short memory. When Bush was seen smooching on the shiek, and getting all feely and cozy holding hands, well the nation was OUTRAGED. Don’t you remember? Most conservatives flooded the White House with phone calls and emails, blasting Bush for this act. He got the same treatment Obama got. The United States President should NEVER BOW before another, nor should he be kissing and holding hands.

        • Pathfinder

          Diplomatically approved gesture ?!?! Are you totally insane ?? IT HAS NEVER BEEN ACCEPTABLE FOR AN AMERICAN PRESIDENT TO BOW TO ANYONE !

        • 45caliber

          hflash:
          Energy is a big oil user, yes. But plastics is just as big. Keep in mind just what you use every day: clothing, electronics, cars, styrofoam cups, cd’s, DVD’s, computers, chairs, furniture, etc. Even houses use some plastics in their construction.

    • Sgt Mike

      WELL SAID

    • Sgt Mike

      Doc,

      WELL SAID

      We can have both jobs and a cleaner inviroment.

      It was not to many years ago the Oil industry was the most powerful cartel in the world. They lobbied congress for subsidies in the name of national defense.

      They painted a picture of the nations industry grinding to a halt with out them, joblesness would destroy us, it was a nasty picture.

      and then 7 years later the WHALE OIL cartel was GONE, yes Whale Oil,

      seems some folks figured out what to do with this stuff leaking out of the ground in PA,

      Americans are a rather remarkable people, If we get our heads out of the SAND,Oil Sand that is we can find something much better.

      I do not wish to point fingers but has anyone considered that John meyers might have a Ulterior motive to keep us invested in

    • 45caliber

      Doc: Perhaps you should also point out that 1/3 of all oil America uses comes from there.

      I do believe that we can come up with a way to reduce, at least, our use of oil by going to an alternate source. Nuclear energy comes to mind. But FIRST we need to find and accept using that source and then build it BEFORE we stop using oil.

      So – what have you invented so far???

  • Peter

    John Myers: Oil apologist and complete fool when it comes to oil sands. read the real story of the destruction of Canadian environment AND natural water basins by oil sands extraction: http://www.newint.org
    Oil sands were ignored for decades by big oil until they were faced with real depletion in global oil reserves. Now all of a sudden they’re economically viable due to the increased price of oil, but they are an absolute filth and blight on our environment – yours and mine. You can’t hide it. I am not a member of any environmental group, nor am I a socialist, but I like to keep my eyes and my mind open to all sides of a story, and this John Myers story is so biased it has absolutely no credibility on a global or local scale whatsoever. Totally unbalanced journalism. The world needs new solutions, not old oil cover-ups like this.

    • JC

      There is no more destruction to the environment than one would expect with strip mining. Those sands have been leeching oil into rivers there for centuries. And the Government of Alberta is very sensitive to environmental issues and inspects operations rigidly.

      • Doc Sarvis

        You said; “no more destruction to the environment than one would expect with strip mining”. Have you EVER seen a strip mine? There is nothing MORE destrucive than a strip mine!

        • hflashman

          More destructive than strip mining? Sure there is…returning to the Bush/Cheney years as the GOP is proposing as its solution to the problems we face (hmmm…problems caused by the Bush/Cheney policies…) Of course, that’s the difference between a .45 in the head and a .357 in the head, both are effective in killing us.

          • Doc Sarvis

            Good point.

          • http://INTERNETEXPLORER GUNDOCTOR

            hflashman….you just had a “flash in the pan” with no resulting ignition and expulsion of the projectile as desired. yep, blame it all on the republicans….you jerk-off democraps refuse to take responsibility when you f__k up, but you love to revel in the glory and take credit when someone else does it right! MORONS ALL!!

          • Jana

            hflashman,
            You and doc should put your actions with your words and start doing a little sacrificing then. I recommend giving up your cars and your computers to start.

          • eddie47d

            Jana; Life will go on Jana.We just don’t have to be so destructive about. Can we move forward with better solutions or are you one of those who are invested in oil and gas.Thus that is how you vote.

          • Jana

            eddie,
            I am vested in common sense.

          • eddie47d

            Jana, Apparently not!

          • Jana

            Considering the source, coming from you this is a BIG complement.

          • ross

            Eddy talks about being “invested in oil” as being a bad thing.

            But he gets a check from the Province of Alberta for oil royalties.

            But he sends it back…yeah, sure.

            If he’s not an Alberta resident, he is nonetheless prospering BIG-TIME from oil, as a Canadian citizen.

            The Province of Alberta sent oil checks to its citizens as far back as the 1950′s.

            It IS……..SAUDI ALBERTA, and that’s a good thing….

        • Al Sieber

          Mining is a lot different then it was 100 years ago. it could take up to 10 years to open up a new mine. don’t compare what they did in the past, with the future, its a weak argument.

        • JC

          What’s your point Doc? We need oil, period!
          Unless of course you happen to be sitting on a magic flying carpet,
          step off until you have something constructive to add.
          Typical liberal…all whine and no thinking.

        • http://?? Joe H.

          Doc,
          “Have you ever seen a strip mine?” Yes I have and I have seen them that have been reclaimed. most of the reclaimed ones that are done right are beautiful!

          • hflashman

            Actually….the best any reclamation can bring land back is 70% of what is was prior to being stripped. Hard facts. There are certain bio molds that are destroyed when soil is moved around, topsoi is diluted to a secondary soil grade, and there’s a difference in water retention ability of ‘reclaimed’ versus natural.

            Most relamation projects are 50% of pre stripping…the last 20% is very expensive, yet that last 20% possibility does the most benefit in stream and vegetation protection.

        • Pathfinder

          To the contrary, while strip mines are ugly to look at while in operation, after the mine is “played out”, backfill operations leave behind a beatuiful landscape. There is little long term damage, if any.

        • 45caliber

          Have you ever seen the land after the strip mine has been closed and reclaimed? You can’t tell it was ever there.

      • Laid Nack

        Just more regulations.

        Why can’t we just dilute the oil downstream.

      • dean shamblen

        have you seen pictures of west virginia from the air lately, the coal industry is systematecly destroying the appalatian mnts.

        • Claire

          dean shamblen–and polluting the water that is around these areas. To me, this is what is sad. If any type of mining, oil drilling etc. is done, we should make sure to keep the environment safe. It can be done but obviously people are either too lazy and don’t care about anything but profits. Money talks and responsibility walks.

    • William

      yeh peter you sure dont sound like an environmentalist,

    • MJ Montana

      Myers is unbalanced? Exactly why is that so? Because he is a geologist that has been covering oil sands for years or becasue he is just flat out wrong — people should not go to Alberta becasue of those dirty oil sands in the extreme north? Speak out on if it is the latter and maybe drop a line about where you live. Does your state mine coal, have offshore drilling or maaybe handle nuclear material… all good reasons to boycott your home state.

    • alpha-lemming

      Oh Yeah!!
      What a totally balanced, unbiased, One-World, addendum to the Communist Manifesto web-site. Saharan Africans have to live in dung-huts….. It’s only right that we should too.

    • Jim Cumber

      Let’s “rein in” on our emotions and use our brains a little more. (1) We are “barking up the wrong tree”, here: solar, wind, and other such “green” technologies are exceedingly “weak reeds” on which to lean our energy future, to say the least! (2) Some of the newest (but little known) technologies offer MUCH better alternatives! Might I suggest a little “light reading”: “Energy from the Vacuum”, by Dr Tom Bearden. It explains how, among other things, an ALREADY PATENTED device, the Motionless Electromagnetic Generator (MEG) can extract pure, clean, electrical energy, DIRECTLY from the quantum vacuum, in COPIOUS amounts of up to TRILLIONS of watts per unit! This electrical energy can power land, marine, and propellor driven air vehicles, and/or our homes and businesses; a simple variation on the MEG can also replace jet aircraft and even spacecraft. All this technology needs is about $12 million (yes, I said only $12 MILLION, or LESS than the cost of drilling a SINGLE oil well!) and 18 months of “clean up” research to be ready for mass production, and the MEG (which is about the size of a half dozen VHS video tapes to power the average home) produces energy UNTIL THE ELECTRICAL PARTS WEAR OUT, in about 20 YEARS! See: http://www.cheniere.org

      • eddie47d

        Now were getting some where with a few good answers.thanks.

      • ross

        Thanks Jim–I will read it…

        If viable, let’s hope Dr. Tim doesn’t try to make a PROFIT on it. The Libs will start calling him BIG VACUUM and dream up a host of environmental problems.

        There shouldn’t be a reward for the hard work and dedication required to produce a new technology. That would be GREED, according to several people on this page.

  • Ken Roberts

    We need laws that will protect us from the attack of the heinous green people they do more damage, and I would not put it past them to sabotage an oil rig to get what they want.

    • Craig

      I’d be happy with open season on these green enviro Nazi types. No limit. Be doing humanity a huge favor.

      • William

        AMEN Craig. as a matter of fact there shouild be a bounty on them,

    • http://INTERNETEXPLORER GUNDOCTOR

      YOU MEAN LIKE THAT ONE IN THE GULF…HMMMM, FOOD FOR THOUGHT. OBUMMER SAYS HE’S A GREENER….HMMMM, MORE FOOD FOR THOUGHT!!

    • eddie47d

      Ken,craig,William; Are you the 3-stooges? Maybe you are talking about Breitbart’s sabotaging race relations in America.Go clean up the manure in your own barn!

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Another cattleman, all that bull in one place!!! Nobamam has done more to ruin race relations in this country than any president in modern times!!

      • JC

        Race relations? Don’t you mean tha divide and conquer tactsics of racial division used by DC?

        • dean shamblen

          you are watching too much glen beck

          • ross

            That won’t fly. The Left has been exploiting race as part of its broader class warfare strategy before anybody heard of Glenn Beck.

            Open your eyes.

  • John Angel

    If these people don’t want oil exploration and are against it’s use why do they travel by car or airplane? They must not be aware that it takes oil to make fuel to make these devices move so that they can spread their drivel.
    If a person is openly opposed to finding oil and doesn’t want companies to develop it then they should be banned from driving or traveling in any other way other than by bicycle.

    • s c

      Actually, John, little green elves and fairies put a special fairy water in the fuel tanks of the vehicles of greeners. Overnight, that special fairy water turns into gasoline. The next day, away they go, fighting for truth and justice and green causes.
      When those little green elves and fairies have to take a day off (it’s exhausting supplying the energy needs of progressives), Mary Poppins and Peter Pan take over so never is there a gas shortage like we had back in the ’70s. FYI, Mr. Obama organized all those little green elves and fairies (all dues-paying members of Chicago Local
      #69).

      • Jana

        Nancy Pelosi went greener so she leases an $18,000 a month office for herself in CA. Now this is just one of her offices. Hmm, she is so concerned about being greener yet she still uses her bigger jet airplane that costs more in fuel etc. and she uses it regularly. Shame on her and shame on CA for electing such a nut back into office year after year.
        This is the mentalitiy that we are up against. This is the mentalitiy of those on this site that are the liberals that are for this administration.
        I realize full well that there are Republicans that use and abuse too, but they are not out there shouting to us to MAKE SACRIFICES. I know, I know. Obama and Pelosi and Reid are just taking care of us like precious babies—-with money.

        • eddie47d

          Yes Jana don’t make sacrifices for the good of the nation. That’s only in old Hollywood movies.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            edduh!,
            I WILL make sacrifices when ALL of the dems, including YOU do!!! Oh and that includes ALL the greenies!!

    • William

      John even a bycycle uses petroleum. let the walk. the last time I noticed walking isn’t crowded,

      • Jana

        William,
        Can’t use those Tennis shoes either.

        • Joyce from Loris

          Or flip flops. All petroleum based products. Oh, and we can’t get leather from animals anymore to make shoes, that would horrible. So, we go bare footed?
          Coal and oil are nature’s gifts. We, as humans, use the intelligence that God gave us to make use of these gifts. Yes, we can find alternative methods of creating energy, but it can’t happen overnight. It will take time, and we are still a nation on the go. Why, just look at Obama. He flies Airforce One all over the world at the drop of a hat. Does he look concerned about conserving energy?? No, so what kind of an example does he present to the nation?

          • eddie47d

            So you want him to sit around in the White House and not engage in the rest of the world. Then you would ,WELL,accuse him of sitting around and not engaging in the world. At least he hasn’t started any wars yet.

          • Jana

            eddie, eddie, remember, common sense. Sorry, I forgot who I was talking to.

            Obama also uses his fuel to take many many vacations and to play games. I don’t really know when this poor overplayed man has time to work.

          • eddie47d

            Jana. He also has children and as a Good Democrat he takes his kids places. Darn I forgot;that’s only a Republican value. Then George Bush always took the whole month of August off for his personal pleasure. Darn I forgot Republicans can do it but Democrats can’t. My apologies!

          • Jana

            eddie,
            I accept your appology.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Joyce,
            I got an idea! We’ll all use Ho Chi Mihn sandals!!! those are made out of used tires and we need to get rid of those!!!! Oh darn, I forgot winter!! Hey, I did my part now the rest of you think about winter!!!

          • Claire

            JoeH–I used to wear flip flops– but no more! The dogs go after them, I guess because of the flapping “noise” they make when I walk.

          • ross

            Here’s the answer: HEMP sandles.

            Eddy—–send your oil royalty check back to the Province!!!!

  • hflashman

    Great idea…let’s stay on an increasing outmoded ancient oil dependent economy while the rest of the world moves ahead to the next evolutionary phase of an energy based technological economy. Let’s put our enegy dependence reliant on concentrated areas of production so they can be easily wiped out by missiles. Let’s ignore the facts about environmental degradation, concentrating more wealth and power to a few companies for energy production.

    There is not one good aspect in opening up these oil shale fields. By the time they can produce any amount to make an impact, during that time we still have to be controlled by Middle east tyrants, and we still have to sit up and take notice when Hugo Chavez makes noise in South America. All the while holding our breath we aren’t crippled because we listened to some lunatic fringe on the Right say being controlled by Corporate America and not moving forward leading the world to a new energy frontier is a good idea. Uh huh … sure it is … if you say so.

    BTW…notice how the author referenced Kim’s wall to keep N Koreans from getting out while he obstensively say it’s for “protection’? Hmmm…isn’t there a lunatic right wing element saying we should build a wall on our Southern border? Walls work both ways…

    • MoJo

      I remember when the corporation/special interest conservatives were against higher mileage vehicles, clean air and clean water. The good old days will return.

      There were photos of rivers on fire and kids were poisoned with tetraethyl lead from gasoline.

      • Jana

        Wow flashman,
        Talk about fear mongering.

        You stated and I quote, “Great idea…let’s stay on an increasing outmoded ancient oil dependent economy while the rest of the world moves ahead to the next evolutionary phase of an energy based technological economy. Let’s put our enegy dependence reliant on concentrated areas of production so they can be easily wiped out by missiles. Let’s ignore the facts about environmental degradation, concentrating more wealth and power to a few companies for energy production.”
        What other countries are you suggesting that are moving ahead? Venzuela? Brazil? Iran? Mexico?
        We could move forward but the environmentalists keep stopping everything out of fear. They can’t even clear out the underbrush in the forests to stop fires ‘because of the environmentalist’. These environmentalists are good up to a point then they become like a rock in your shoe and a major pain.

        • hflashman

          Brazil is a very good example of how to transition into a non oil based transportation system. China is the worlds largest producer of “green energy” systems and has launched a national campaign to decrease oil dependency. Venezula would like nothing more than to keep us oil dependent.

          Think about that. Those that want us dependent upon oil, are not wanting the US to remain top dog in thie world.

          • ross

            …uhhh, last time I checked, we were facing some apparent climatic limitations in attempting to mimic Brazil in sugar cane production…and if you’re holding your breath while China switches to alternative energy from those eeeeevilllle “fossil” fuels…well, good luck–and just WHICH lunatic fringe do YOU belong to?

      • eddie47d

        Well said,I hope Jana remembers the past and how the obstructionist Republicans blocked every thing back then too. No wonder we are in such a mess.

    • Craig

      Blah blah blah. I belch black diesel smoke at you loons.

    • William

      what loony bin did you escape from. the reason we are so dependant on the muslims now is because of the damned IDIOTS like greenoeace et al,

      • Coservative at Birth

        Do you know what percentage of our oil comes from the middle east. I bet you don’t. Check it out and get back to us. Your’e argument against oil will be destroyed.

        • Doc Sarvis

          About 60%.

          • Coservative at Birth

            You are so wrong. I said check it out. We get 7 % of our oil from Saudi Arabia. Canada is number 1. Mexico is number 2. etc.

          • ross

            …numbers and ACTUAL facts are so inconvenient and, well, just distressing to the Utopian Left…

      • eddie47d

        Far from it;did you have polio as a child for your mind is crippled.

        • eddie47d

          That was for William.

        • libertytrain

          why Eddie – what a kind and gentle soul you must be… Good grief.

        • Claire

          eddie47d–You are not a damn bit funny. My Father died of polio two months before I was born. He was in an iron lung. He was 27 years old.

          • eddie47d

            Sorry Claire for you early loss in life and for offending you.

          • Claire

            eddie47d— Like Ross said, we all say things that can be hurtful, and forgiveness is a good thing…true words. I have no ill feelings towards anyone on this thread.

        • JeffH

          fast eddie IS the board idiot, without a doubt…

          • Claire

            JeffH– I draw the line when it comes to illnesses and disabilities. I will never mention any derogatory statements against anyone concerning health. One never knows if and when it can happen to them. We do not know what the future holds regarding health. If a person has good health they are fortunate. eddie should watch his tongue.

          • ross

            …agreed, but we’re all capable of hurtful speech, and foregiveness is a good thing…

      • Jim Cumber

        William, it’s even WORSE than that! Way back in the 1970s, an almost forgotten news magazine called “Review of the News” sent reporters to, as I recall, a meeting of oil executives and OPEC representatives in California. A Saudi sheik at that conclave made the following statement (as close as I can remember): “You Americans will be dependent on us [the Muslim World] for your oil needs for at least the next 30 years, unless, of course, you discover massive new deposits in your own country. However, our friends, the environmentalists, will protect us from that eventuality, BECAUSE WE ARE FINANCING THEM!” Is this NOT “economic warfare”? Does the word “TREASON” (Article III, Section 3 of the U.S. Constitution: “Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them [the States], or in adhering to their [the States'] Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort…”) ring a bell?!

    • Brad

      hflashman/MoJo

      So where are the so called green jobs promised by this administration? Oh that’s right there all in China. So why can’t you two bring any constructive ideas to the table for a debate, is it because you don’t have any constructive ideas to get us off of foreign oil!!! Currently in the US we have the most oil reserves un-tapped the world has ever heard of, 2-3 trillion barrels, that we can’t touch, and why, thank the “RATS” and their green friends. So on that note where are the new fuels that’s going to replace oil and the products that are produced from it?

      That’s right we have E85 but it doesn’t provide the same fuel economy that regular gas does, plus E85 is mixed with regular unleaded gas to give it some bang. Then there are natural gas and propane cars and where are the thousands of stations for them, oh that’s right they also don’t get very good fuel economy, my bust. Well then there is Hydrogen fuel but that technology is still 10 years from being truly perfected and right is still highly volatile. The totally electric car is now on the scene, but what is its power source, nuclear plants, coal fired power plants and the list goes on.

      Right now we are 10+ year’s from any form of energy that can replace oil and we all know it, it’s time to cut the Arabs off and start drilling our own oil and at the same time developing new sources of energy for the future security of our country. I believe we can become energy independent and turn a profit at the same time because we would produce more oil than we can consume so it goes out onto the open market for sale, we would rake in billions annually. Just think we would become the world’s financial power house again, just by tapping into our own oil sources and putting in onto the world market. As with anything it will also take time and by the way it would take less time then developing those so called new energy alternatives.

      As for N. Korea, they keep their people in for a reason, they (the gov) don’t want the general populous to know the truth, if they knew what was going on the general populous would revolt against their government. Right now there are two types in N. Korea, the haves and the have not’s, 5% have 95% of the food and quality of life items where as 95% have only 5% of the food and quality of life items. So why don’t you guy’s go live in N. Korea and report back how life is so great their!!! We Americans want our borders protected, we want the illegal immigrant sent packin, and if you have proper paperwork to be in this country legally then I welcome you with open arms, and that goes for both sides of the border.

      You two are such fools, do some research and you will find out for yourselves the left, progressives, democ “RATS”, are leading you and this country to third world status.

      • http://INTERNETEXPLORER GUNDOCTOR

        brad…
        you hit the nail on the head. right on. at least some of us have common sense and our heads out in free air!!

      • eddie47d

        I won’t deny what you said and we will depend on oil for many years. Why not keep pushing for more alternatives and within that 10 years we’ll be in a better position as a nation.

        • Doug

          Hell if we used the hot air coming out of Eddies mouth I think that could power a house!

          • eddie47d

            Sorry Mr doom and gloom I didn’t mean to ruffle your feathers.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Doug,
            Nah the methane from all that BS is a greenhouse gas!!!!

      • Jim Cumber

        Brad, I have been referring to them as “Demorats” for years; then again, I, as an “iron rod” Constitutionalist, can’t stand the GOP (Goof Off Politicians: EXCEPTING Ron Paul) for years…;) I am a precinct chair in the Constitution Party. See: http://www.constitutionparty.com

      • dean s

        no its the republicans who have been trying to turn us into a 3rd world country since 1980 when reagan got his dirty paws on the white house if you check the facts the middle class has been shrinking ever since and the national debt keeps getting higher.

        • dean

          but of course democrats havent been inocent either alot of them have taken money from wall st, and the big business lobyist to deregulate everything

    • http://ahalbert@smart-technology.net Allan

      A lunatic right wing element? Polls for some time have shown that more than half of Americans want a wall. CNN’s poll in July 2008 indicated 2/3 of Republicans, 55% of Independents, and 40% of Democrats favor a wall. That’s a lot of people for you to be calling lunatics, don’t ya think?

      • http://?? Joe H.

        allan,
        On the evening MSM news tonight, they said nearly 68% of Americans believe the giverment is not doing their job on immigration. They did add that that was down 2% from a month ago. That’s probably because they polled 2% more bleeding heart libbies this time!!!

    • ross

      “…controlled by Corporate America…” hilarious. You have DISCRETION over every one of your dollars you spend.

      Except for April 15 each year.

      If you don’t give money to Corporate America on April 15 each year, what does Corporate America do to you? Nothing.

      You deserve to live in Cuba, where you would be free of Corporate America.

      Some people just never could leave the 60′s behind…

      • dean

        corporite america screws the american workers and tax payers every day, they move our jobs oversea to get slave labor pay no taxes and overcharge the govt,on a regular basis. i could go on and on

        • dean

          o.k my spelling does suck

  • Only in America

    Oil shale is one nasty and expensive place to get oil.

    Perhaps you will debate the effects of green house gases on the planet too. Especially after it is too late.

    Just more nonsense from the so called conservatives.

    • Mondovibe

      Yeah, it’s hard to understand what the conservatives want to conserve other than destructive exploitative profiteering policies that outsourced the American Dream, gambled away our safety, economy and environment…and their definition of family only…the rest of us aren’t deserving of civil rights or sustainability…yet they call us greenies, commies, marxists, fascists, etc.

      • Joyce from Loris

        You left out stupid.

        • eddie47d

          No that’s you since your such a corrupter of a clean environment. Your insults will not stop this nation from moving forward with clean air and water. You need to take a serious look at water issues in America and the world.It’s not all pretty.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Yeah edduh!, such a clean environment that a staunch dem bastion like NYC has needles and all kinds of garbage washing up on its beaches from the trash it hauls out to the deep water ocean!!!

          • ross

            Joe, you do that Obama elocution(sp?) perfectluh…

          • ross

            Yes, Edduh–

            Can’t get over the wonderful clean, healthy National Forests that “environmentalists”(always use quotes around that word) have given us with the forest policy they’ve inflicted on us.

            What we have now is sick, fading tinderboxes which, as they ignite, wipe out whole populations of wildlife and their habitat.

            There is a TOTAL avoidance of this issue by the Nutball Lefties on this site. The main reason is that it’s the truth; the other reason is that they’re Urban Shut-ins.

            Send back your oil royalty check, Edduh!!!

          • dean

            we need clean water to live,clean air and land too.like i said before if the earth dies so do we.i want a healthy planet so that my children and grandkids etc. can live far into the future.don’t you?

      • http://ahalbert@smart-technology.net Allan

        Mondovibe-

        You have a very idealistic view of the world to think that liberals and environmentalists (which the article was about), are somehow more honest than people in business. Let’s do away with all business for a few years. Then we’ll all gradually have less of everything, and we can enjoy seeing where people point fingers. Some will wonder why there is no innovation or willingness to take a risk.

        • ross

          aaaaamen, hi-five, and fist-bumps, Alan.

          Lefty Nutballs (you know–the ones with the CHE’ t-shirts) need to do a few years in one of their Worker’s Paradises. Cuba would be a good start.

          They’d be begging for mercy on the second day.

  • Lawrence L. Sober

    The current administration in America is good at telling lies. They lie to the public on a regular basis. We pay billions of dollars for oil from countries that spend a large part of their profits supporting attacks against America. What can you expect when you Make a devout Muslim the President of the US. A president who has one agenda and that is to see that America becomes a Socialist Republic. The facts don’t lie, just the people who present them.

    • Mondovibe

      that’s why the current administration is pushing for innovation in sustainable energy and job creation…a win/win for the economy and environment

      • Coservative at Birth

        If there was real innovation in energy to replace oil, people would have already invested in it. This administration is trying to steal my freedom, and if you are with them, you have declared yourself my mortal enemy. They really want to tax the American Free Enterprise system out of existence, and that is all.

        • Jana

          This administration is just plain bad. I started to say it was a joke, however with all of the bills that he is getting pushed through, this admin. is more like a nightmare.

          • ross

            Barry Soetoro never has run so much as a lemonade stand…but he’s a helluva speech reader….

          • dean

            the bills he is pushing through will save our republic its the deregulation crowd and “conservitives”that have pushed our country to the brink

    • eddie47d

      Al; We have been relying on foreign oil for a century and you want to blame it all on Obama with the usual name calling.You have no credibility.

      • JeffH

        fast eddie…do you think you have any credibility? None, nada, zero, X! I’d suggest you think about it but I wouldn’t want you to hurt yourself.

        • eddie47d

          Jeff Get lost you pandering pimp!

        • http://?? Joe H.

          JeffH,
          I think you just demonstrated very well that the TRUTH hurts!!

          • eddie47d

            Another pandering pimp is that a species?

          • ross

            No, pandering pimp is interchangeable with the genus Lemming Lefty-Nutball.

    • dean

      so did bush and chaney they lied continuosly for eight years non stop

    • dean

      also if the president was a muslim he would be working to make us an islamic republic not a socialist one

  • Donald

    Myers may be absolutely right, but he is certainly not an unbiased source. His whole life has been in association with the Oil Industry.

  • Marcus Aurelius

    Who needs greasy migratory birds anyway? Why not just lace their food with poison so they die in Canada.

  • jim

    A little known fact is that the US has this same type of oil deposit available as well. I believe it’s somewhere in the area between N. Dakota and Montana and it’s very close to the Canadian border. AS I recall, it’s in shale and the technology to extract it is available now…yet we have these greenjeans calling for no exploration or extraction…it’s simply infuriating. Why don’t GreanJeans and all their cohorts go to N. Korea or Saudi Arabia and ply their agendas? I can tell you why it’s because they would silence their sorry mouths once and for all. Perhaps they ought to realized what we are fighting against and get on board. We can be good stewards of our lands and resources and at the same time remain the best country on God’s green earth.

    • William

      you are right Jim. all the damned IDIOTS need do is travel through Pa. where they have been strip mining for years. se what they have done to the land they pulled the coal from. land that otherwise would be worthless is now beautiful. but those ass holes dont want you to know about that, they just want to bitch about the drilling. what they want is for us to be dependant on the muslims so we can give them plenty of money to buy weapons with, wouldn’t it be nice if they would attack some of those worthless bastards>>

      • dean

        i think the mountains were beutiful before the coal co came along

    • eddie47d

      Jim; Prove it (good stewards) so “greenjeans” can’t say it’s not true. So far you haven’t.

      • JeffH

        fast eddie, you’ve yet to prove anything. Each time you’re called on to post a fact or a factual rebuttle you can’t and just make another idiotic remark…no credibility at all…

        • eddie47d

          Do all the time Jeff so you can lie all you want if it makes you feel better. You’d make a great garbage salesman always carrying around free samples!

      • ross

        Eddie…send back your oil royalty check.

  • So called conservatives

    Why not repeal all taxes so we can better spend our money.

    They repealed all the antiquated anti-depression laws and decontrolled the banks.

    Remember libraries, wars, highways, and the obsolete space shuttle were free………..no taxes involved if you listen to conservative talk.

    • Craig

      Apparently you never listen to conservative radio, as nobody says those things should be free. You are clueless.

      • eddie47d

        Craig; Conservatives say all taxes are evil (except for military). They never say where money comes from for highways,libraries,ect. They never admit it comes from taxes.

        • Jim Cumber

          eddie47d: “…Conservatives say all taxes are evil (except for military). They never say where money comes from for highways,libraries,ect. They never admit it comes from taxes…” WRONG!

          If you “did your homework” you would know that: (1) Under the Constitution, there are only VERY limited areas in which the Federal Government is Constitutionally authorized to be involved, and the military is one of the “short list” (U.S. Constitution, Article I, Section 8) items. “Libraries” are NOT on the list, nor are “highways” (UNLESS they are “post Roads”: Article I, Section 8, Paragraph 7). “National Parks”, etc., do NOT appear on the Constitution’s “short list” of permissible Federal Expenditures! (2) ALL Income Taxes go EXCLUSIVELY to the misnamed “Federal Reserve” (which is nothing more than an unConstitutional, illegal, private banking cartel!) to pay the exorbitant INTEREST on our NATIONAL DEBT! Study the Constitution…

          • eddie47d

            There are State and local taxes and Republicans say the same thing on that level.

          • JeffH

            fast eddie, why don’t you post some facts to back up your accusations instead, just once.

          • eddie47d

            Jeff; Listening to you proves me right everytime. I don’t even have to look any farther.

          • ross

            Eddy…send back your oil royalty check.

    • Roland N Thompson

      Roland Thompson

      Dear so called. When will people like you wake up and see that all agendas lib.and conser. will only destroy our country. Our colleges
      need to teach our kids how to think not what to think.

      • Jim Cumber

        Roland N Thompson: “…Our colleges need to teach our kids how to think not what to think…”

        ABSO-FRAGGING-LUTELY!!!!

        Only I believe that our so-called “education system” should begin teaching students HOW to think (rather than WHAT to think!) when they are in GRADE school! If they wait until college, they will MISS a high percentage of American youth, who never go to college…

        • ross

          On the NEA’s list of recommended reading: Alinsky’s “Rules for Radicals”(check it out).

          These clones (NEA) have our kids for six hours a day.

          I used to vote yes on every school bond. I will henceforth vote NO on any school bond, until there is CHOICE in education.

          Liberals believe in CHOICE? What a farouking joke.

    • William

      where in the hell did you hear that crapp?

    • dean

      do you like the police,firemen or highways? taxes pay for those

  • Willy

    Remember the 9-11 terrorists came through Canada not Mexico.

    What about all the illegal people on expired visas (like students, like the 9-11 terrorists). Can Arizona racially profile them? What if they look European or Canadian next time and speak English?

    • Joyce from Loris

      Let’s profile everyone! There are illegal RUSSIANS here, that came on work vistas and never left. They are white. I would NOT be upset if someone asked me to show identification to prove I was an American. If a police officer stops me for any reason, first thing he asks is to see my driver’s license, proof of insurance and car registration. Is that profiling?? ALL illegal immigrants must be FOUND and DEPORTED. All people caught invading our country should be shot as terrorist.

      • Jim Cumber

        While I HEARTILY agree that illegal aliens should be found, arrested, and deported, don’t you think that shooting them all as terrorists (after all, MANY, if not most, of the illegals are women and children!) is a BIT “over the top”?!

    • http://?? Joe H.

      Willy,
      Just as long as YOU remember that seven of the nine terrorists that were planning to attack Ft Dix came through Mexico!!!

    • NorthernDave

      NOT A SINGLE 9-11 TERRORIST ENTERED THE US FROM CANADA! NOT ONE. But then again, why let facts screw up your post, eh?

  • Tar Ball

    At least the Sierra Club stands up when everyone else looks the other way.

    • Al Sieber

      Tar Balls, the Sierra Club, among others; condemn the land, steal it or buy it cheap then sell it for a profit. they don’t care about the environment. just money.

      • Doc Sarvis

        Please tell me when the Sierra Club bought land and sold it for a profit or when the stole land-Please.

        • Al Sieber

          Doc Savris, prove me wrong!!!!

        • Al Sieber

          Doc., You can’t prove anything, can you?

        • ross

          Doc, it’s always nice to see virginity.

          The Sierra Club, et al presses for and brings action against private uses of land, claiming environmental hazard, need for wetlands classification, existence of threatened/endangered species, etc. etc. ad infinitum. These are often trumped up, with no factual basis. The environmentalists’ pockets are deep, given the fact that much of their money for legal action comes from taxpayers and an endless line of well-meaning Urban Shut-ins.

          The private landowner gives up, financially and emotionally, sometimes after YEARS of conflict. The land use he HAD, or envisioned, or anticipated, is disallowed. Therefore, VALUE is taken from him.

          But not to worry!!! In what can only be described as sheer coincidence, THE NATURE CONCERVANCY, THE TRUST FOR PUBLIC LANDS, or other similar group, is standing nearby, ready to buy the now greatly devalued real estate, thereby rescuing the poor ba$t*rd that had plans for his land.

          Are you really as naiive as you sound?

          Maybe so, and as I said–virginity is to be valued. Carry on!

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Al Sieber,
        And they have done SO MUCH to stop all the enviromental damage done to the trails coming into the US by the illegals!! Such stand-up citizens I never saw before!!!

    • Craig

      Yeah wasn’t it the Sierra Bozos that tried to telling us polar bears were dieing off and it was all do to that hoax, man made global warming. I loved the picture of a polar bear on a tiny iceberg. Too bad the lying A hole Sierra club never mentioned that polar bears are excellent swimmers.

      • JC

        Parents of children in Churchill Manitoba Canada walk their kids to school with rifles…because of all the Polar Bears. They’ve never had so many.

        • ross

          ..but doncha know that’s because da bears ran outa ice…it’s true cuz da IPCC guys said so…dey ain’t no ice left anywhere…

    • Jim H.

      Tar Ball, The Sierra Club runs on donated money and membership dues. They need a cause so clueless people like you will donate. It’s about the money. The green they care about is the greenback.

      • William

        so right Jim. all the more reason for finding out who gives them their money and stop buying any thing from them,

      • eddie47d

        Poppycock!!

        • Doug

          No Eddie you are a —–!

          • eddie47d

            Polar Bears can only swim up to 40 miles and that is a stretch. Most icebergs can float for hundreds of miles and with so many breaking off these day because of the warming polar bears are truly lost at sea.

          • Jana

            uh oh, eddie must have donated to them. He is one of the clueless that was being talked about. hahahaaha

          • JeffH

            fast eddie, do you belong to or support the organizations Defenders of Wildlife, PETA and the Humane Society? Just curious.

          • Claire

            JeffH– I abhor PETA. I have given to the polar bear fund before. I am also a member of the National Wildlife Federation and I have given to the World Wildlife Fund. I contribute to Contact Ministries (for the poor) here in town. I am not a radical about these organizations. I do what I can if I can. I have also contributed to the Animal Protective League here in town. I have to admit my main concern is for the German Shorthaired Pointer Rescue. And I am against puppy mills. There are an abomination. At this point in time I am concentrating on the GSPs and getting rid of puppy mills.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Claire,
            I don’t know about your area, but here the APL euthanises after a period of time. I know you wouldn’t want to support that. We have a few non-kill rescue houses in our area that refuse to kill any of their “rescues”! I donate money, food and litter to them instead!

          • Claire

            JoeH– The APL here does a good job, they do not euthanize. They have ads in the paper every day with a picture of the dog or cat they are trying to find a home for. The APL appear at a lot of stores here in town on the weekends trying to get the animals adopted. They really work hard at trying to find homes. The APL has a lot of fundraisers which helps. The local animal pound euthanizes. Brady (RINO) who is running for office here in Illinois submitted legislation to put all animals together in the same room and kill them using auto exhaust. He is a jerk. There is a no-kill shelter in Benld, IL ran by Lorraine Jackson. She has done this her entire life. She is a wonderful person. She has a lot of volunteers that help her.

          • eddie47d

            Dear Jeff You didn’t say pretty please but you being such a good friend I’ll tell you I am a member of Defenders of Wildlife and have given money to the Humane Sosiety.

          • ross

            …crickets chirping…

      • ross

        Eddie, even bears get a clue and go on welfare at Churchill, apparently.

        Maybe Greenpeas can rescue da bears in that Batmobile Boat…would make a great money-making TV show…think of the drama….

        Now that you mention it, why is Greenpeeze NOT rescuing da bears? They have the boat—what is their excuse?

  • Hot Dog

    Some times people make wild statements. so the ads are a request for donations. We today are huge users and producers of energy. If we did not produce energy, our trade balance w. china would look even more skewed. We need to revert to more coal usage,(electricity). To do this we must upgrade our power transfer technology to eliminate the need for gasoline/diesel engines. It would be nice to say,”oh, riding a bicycle will eliminate the need for oil”. I love biking ,however, lots of modern bike parts are made from oil as are your computer, cellphone, as well as lubricants. All this may be done w. coal. Powering vehicles w. USA sourced natural gas is only a minor step. Powering cars w. power strips in the interstate system will eliminate the need for large batteries in electric cars,(and the current thing a gasoline motor). The purchase of the power can be sensed by EZ Pass technology. You just swipe your card at the gas station now? Why not have your EZ Pass carry your fuel bill? And stop paying to haul that explosive gasoline down the road? BACK TO COAL!!!!!

  • Whisky Joe

    I prefer NAT GAS and nuclear

  • Lost and Found

    Myers sure likes that oil.

  • LARRY

    WE HAVE TO MANY BIRDS ANY HOW,AND TO MANY LIBERALS AND TO MANY ENVIRONMENTALISTS AND TO MANY MUSLIMS!

    • William

      right Larry. now if we could just elimenate a lot of the birds and all of the liberals and muslims,

      • Mondovibe

        your hitler mentality is loud and clear…never forget

  • Only in America

    Canada can start killing their rivers like China does.

    • eddie47d

      They are working on it.

    • JC

      Absolute propogandist “greeny” garbage!
      God but you watermelons are gullible.

  • Halbert

    Why didn’t Bush Cheney think of this when they were the fearless leader?

    • Doug

      they were to busy meeting with Obama puppet master same crap different day at least they are not Marxist list most liberals are.

  • Oil Barron

    I put the “Oil Disaster” in the Gulf directly on the heads of Green Peace, the Sierra Club, and all the other missinformed tree hugger types. The disaster is a direct result of them pushing the Oil companies farther and farther offshore and into VERY deep water. If they were allowed to drill closer to shore they wouldn’t have to contend with problems caused from over a mile deep of water, current and storms and wouldn’t have these misshaps. These depths astonomically increase the chances of disaster.

    • Al Sieber

      Oil Barron, theres a whole lot that doesn’t add up with that story in the Gulf.

    • malc da falc

      Oil Barron I find it hilarious that your post is identical to what Rush Limbaugh said about the Sierra Club being responsible for the Oil Spill. In case you didn’t know the Sierra Club doesn’t condone ANY offshore drilling whether its close to shore or far away. The fact that you actually listen to and trust Rush Limbaugh is laughable and a lil scary.

      To everyone that says the Sierra Club is all about the Greenbacks please explain to me why all those people work for a non-profit? Because you didn’t know that’s what the Sierra Club is, a non-profit company. There are similar position in private environmental consulting firms where these people could be making 2-3 times as much money. The people working at these organizations are fighting for what they believe and standing up to things they think are wrong. It’s no different than someone who is completely pro-oil, they just disagree. Wasn’t American founded on the idea of freedom of expression? Can that not translate into your work place?

      • Bob Wire

        ha ha!! not sure what kind of “oil barron” we got here.

        I might even enjoy such a title as I receive royalties as they horizontal drill under my house! ~ I got people wanting to buy my royalties every few days. I think I might get the big head soon if it continues.

        Oil Companies have be restricted some, sure you bet! We can’t allow such activity’s just anywhere. Reasons are many. But They drill where they are allowed to drill and they feel certain they can reach it and be cost effective. Nobody made them drill! They choice to drill.

        This deferred blame and guilt was cute at one time, like when we were 3 and 4, but it’s beginning to get old.

        So let’s blame everyone “BUT” Bp for oil in the water?

        ~ Don’t blame the Rapist ! blame the victim!

        If she hadn’t been there it wouldn’t have happened!

      • Doug

        Non profit is another way for people to get paid way to much money for doing little! Maybe you should check the salaries of the top people in the Sierra club.

        • eddie47d

          Maybe you should check into Rehab or maybe you could join the Sierra Club and really do some good.

          • ross

            …”non-profit”…words designed to extract donations from the gullible…it works well, along with misleading photos and outright lies(Spotted Owl fiasco). Sierra Club supporters are notorious for their economic illiteracy.

            And their fannypacks worn in front…

      • http://ahalbert@smart-technology.net Allan

        Enough with the altruism. I have experience with non-profits. I have founded one. I know lots of people in them. In many cases they are habitats for self-serving activity. Many of the employees are there because the job was easier to compete for. Please don’t be naive as to think that non-profits don’t manipulate their surpluses in creative ways.

  • Purcupile

    I find it interesting to note that what I understood John’s main premise of his article to be was the unethical attack on the tourist economy of Alberta, is ignored by the “greens” writing to attack John and the producers of oil from shale. Ethics to them seems to be term they are totally unfamiliar with. Their belief is that they can say and do anything at the expense of ethics and morality as well as innocent hardworking families trying to make a living while not being involved in the oil shale business at all.

    They avoid responding to John’s specific criticisms by ignoring them and steering the argument to things like the U.S. southern borders, or stating opinions as facts…for instance DocSarvis’ statement about strip mining. Another common tactic is to use prejorative words like lunatic, or fool to describe someone who has a different opinion than theirs…this tactic is commonplace in their method of debate. It is unfortunate that in their small misguided minds their opinion is the only one that counts. These are subjects that need to be debated…we do need to find other, new and cleaner sources of energy but we have to wait until it is developed and in the meantime we need to utilize the sources of energy that are available to us today.

    • Al Sieber

      You are right on.

    • http://ahalbert@smart-technology.net Allan

      But that would be common sense, which is not a tool in the liberal toolshed.

    • ross

      RE: the Utopians’ lack of ethics in debate or conflict in general…
      we Non-Utopians are slow to identify where those tactics come
      from.

      The leadership of Leftwing causes are devotees of Alinsky. They
      see their causes as so important that guerilla tactics in general
      are necessary; hence the name-calling, lies, obfuscation, and the
      recruitment of the gullible (they lie to their rank-and-file
      troops,’cause the troops never question Carl Pope, et al). The end
      justifies the means, in their guilty-to-be-on-the-planet mindset.

  • http://google Leonard W Giddens Jr.

    I don’t beleave anything these groups have to say. I would like to see them sail around the world instead of using the oil they hate so much. Any people or group of people should be able with little or no effort to see how phony these people are. Calling them liars is really being too soft. I was going to go vegetarians, and was getting e-mail from someone that was ( I thought) just a regular group. I only eat fish and chicken for meat. When this person told me I should not be eating salmon to protect them, I knew what this person was after. These people are a danger to all of us,they put animals before people.

  • Captcha

    Can I bring into the debate a little detail that was missed by John Myers?

    It seems pretty easy to constantly criticize China since they are now 1st emitters as a nation, a ranking not likely to change. But lacking proofs is not what made the Chinese and all the developing countries refuse the rich countries’ proposals in Copenhagen – basically, flat growth until we find an equivalent to oil.
    What they want is to develop now, because the truth is that the U.S. are setting the example to everyone’s mind around the globe. In developping countries, whether you’re from an elite or not, you seek to be in the American Way of Life. The Arabs emirates do refer to it. Urban Chinese want to eat more meat. Let alone polluting, but so comfortable cars. A trend that leads to copying the US in worse, that is, having obesity now as frequent as undernutrition, populous cities where you can hardly breathe, and limitation of free speech just as the way people get wealthy is criticized. As a European – should I say sorry for being so? I heard rumours about conservatives not liking foreign people – I can witness that when urban elites here changed their way to live and replaced ATVs with bicycles, it had a huge effect on the middle-class’ behavior. The AWOL is the world’s behavior pattern. If you expect others to switch green first, it will only be the day the US aren’t followed anymore.

    • ross

      Captcha,
      You heard from Liberals and Liberal Media that Conservatives don’t like foreigners. More lies from the Left.

      I am a Libertarian, which is a position having more in common with Conservatives these days, with a few exceptions.

      My mother was an immigrant, my mother-in-law was an immigrant, my brother-in-law is an immigrant, my nephew’s wife and her son are immigrants, another niece is an immigrant, etc. etc. . All the above were/are minorities,LEGAL immigrants, we all love each other, AND WE ALL THINK THAT WE SHOULD HAVE BORDERS FOR THIS COUNTRY.

      Don’t buy into the lie put out daily by the Left that only the Left likes foreigners/immigrants. They do this to obfuscate the immigration issue. They are trying to buy an easy 10 million votes that they see growing to 40 or 60 million in the near future, and if they can buy all those votes, the Left gets their way in perpetuity (they think).

  • jopa

    I have often seen on the science chsnnel episodes claiming that if we find water on mars we can convert this water into fuel for further space exploration.Why is it we can do this with martian water and not the water here on earth.Any ideas my fellow earthlings???Perhaps fossil fuels are becoming obsolete.

  • WhatThe

    Some of the posters seem to think there are so-called conservatives/right lunatics: — based on the propaganda spewed out by the left lunatics, as usual the far left states the opposite of the truth — TaxedEnoughAlready people are NOT a party, they support American values, visiting any reliable TEA website, states TEA people support CAPITALISTIC, PRIVATE industry, rather than big government/socialism/Marxism. Many people see their lives, and the lives of future generations getting devastated — the “stimulus”, corruptly mandated health”care”, and numerous other big government takeovers make people ask questions, and TEA organizations help with the answers.
    –newsmax-com Debt Commission Leaders Paint Gloomy Picture 11 Jul 2010
    -For insight into Obama’s views on the courts and the Constitution, see the AT piece, “Obama the Justifier”, by Selwyn Duke, 10/3/08.

    —articlesbase-com – click on news and society in articles category – enter —*is obama a socialist? in search box, and listed is: Brief Biography Of Barack Obama, Obama is the gray man, born and great in the cultural crossroads that make him find difficulty at the beginning of the period of his life. Son of a Kenyan with jet and mother of United States with as white as milk, grew up in a simple … Feb 26, 2009; another heading is – A list of family, friends, and advisers that can be/are linked to socialism, or total government control. Jul 15, 2010;
    -enter —*the liberal mainstream media and obamas’ administration have a symbiotic relationship – describes how the media, and the White House protects liberal views, but conveniently bypasses, and demonizes conservative views Jul 21, 2010;
    – enter —*ARIZONA ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION LAW IS A CLONE OF THE FEDERAL ICE 287 PROGRAM – mentions When Senor Wences, Felipe Calderon, from Mexico criticizes Arizona’s law, something is blatantly wrong. How can Mexico’s President, who enforces harsh immigration law/s, and knows little about Arizona’s problems be given creditability? – Eric Holder calls SB1070 possibly unconstitutional, without reading the law.
    In the bill, racial profiling is specifically addressed, and prohibited; and if Arizona wants to enforce the same rules as Feds 287 program, Arizona is racist? Jul 13, 2010

  • atlas reborn

    Remember that the bigger the lie the easier to believe it and hitler proved it and the serria club and these wacos are in bed together. just like global warming is a big lie and everyone has jumped on to their lies. likewise with nuclear power. I could go on but i would be wasting my time with nit wits. thats why you enviromental wacos voted for obama because he lies and you are to stupid to really check the facts. so just remember when you have no rights and medical that works (obamacare) when you are dead. you deserve what you get and because the leftists and commies and socialiss took over the schools way back in the fifties and dumbed down all you idiots so you would follow any idiot who lies with a smile and you get a wet feeling on your leg . what a sick lot of idiots.

    • Mondovibe

      funny you mention the dumbing down of America…The Texas Board of Ed, a conservative group, is responsible for airbrushing textbooks…ever wonder why we celebrate Columbus Day?

      • Purcupile

        Is that a fact that they “airbrush textbooks” or your opinion? Can you cite traceable facts for verification?

        • Captcha

          New York Times’ “Texas Conservatives Win Curriculum Change” shows an impressive list of fact-twistings, all based on the ground that “Academia is skewed too far to the left”. Which is not a fact, but an opinion, and a quite stupid one, since academia has no political direction but precisely looks after facts.

          • Bob Wire

            Yea your right but you can’t convince these baggers of this! They seemed to be wanting “More God” in the schools and make efforts to that end. (here in Texas anyway) They had some success with it.

            I call them baggers ~ I’m not sure what they really are, I call them CINO!

            (Conservatives in name only) or (Christians in name only) the bias varies with the affliction of the individual and what they been grazing on.

            But they are looking hard at public school text books. They look for the devil in every sentence. They can find him too!

            at some point it will need address, ~ for now ~ I don’t see it as a bad thing or a good thing ~ but just a matter of fact. We need to her voices from both sides.

          • Purcupile

            So you and Bob Wire cannot offer any traceable facts to those statments. My question did not ask for you rants and deflection…I asked for facts…you don’t have any. Typical!

          • Al Sieber

            BW, they’re the people that follow the constitution. just don’t try an cozy up to the rest of us again, after that remark.

          • http://ahalbert@smart-technology.net Allan

            Believe what you want to believe about educational bias. In the Current Review, a scholarly journal on academics, the July-August 2006 study of 1208 respondents showed that 79.6 percent said they voted mostly Democratic in the last 10 years, with 9.3 percent voting Republican. A second study showed that among California professors, the ratio of registered Democrats to Republicans is 5 to 1. Sociology departments showed a ratio of 44 Democrats to 1 Republican, while economics departments employed 2.8 Democrats per Republican. This is pretty much the situation nationwide. At my son’s very green university, the ratio of liberal to conservative is about 20 to 1. Now, you were saying…

          • ross

            “…academia has NO political direction but PRECISELY looks after FACTS…” ?

            Quite a statement, Captcha. Many textbooks are full of bias, misrepresentation by omission, and they commonly depart from any discussion that could be called objective.

            Next you’ll be telling us that the NTA and NEA are middle-of-the-road organizations.

            If you believe that, please let me know. I have some oceanfront property in Arizona to sell you.

    • malc da falc

      yeaaa the political pundits on fox news definitely know more about climate science then the thousands of PhD’s who are in support of global warming.

      • JC

        Do you mean the IPCC? That had about 6 actual climatologists on their list of “thousands of leading scientists”, that included the building’s janitors? How about the ten thousand or so “actual” scientists that have come out against this propogandist BS?
        How do you explain that?

        • ross

          Why would anybody question the veracity and prestige of the IPCC? Anything under the auspices of the United Nations is Blue Chip, irrefutable, undeniable, n’est pas?

          Ya gotta know that when the UN puts countries like Libya,etc. on the Human Rights Commission, you can’t doubt the organization’s credibility.

          The UN, and the IPCC, are about extracting $$$$ from U.S. taxpayers and giving it to corrupt third world regimes.

          …and the gullible just keep marching…and always will. SUCKERS!!!

        • ross

          JC,

          …don’t ever try to get a Lefty to actually answer a question. You’ll get mostly silence (as right here), but sometimes they’ll go so far as to actually sidestep, obfuscate, or deflect.

          But usually that’s too much work. It’s easier for them to just shout RACIST!!! or (one of their favorites) TEABAGGER (they know what that is)
          as an answer to any question, so that’s what they do.

    • eddie47d

      Atlas; Global Warming is a fact and is still evolving. Most people will not see a difference in their day to day life so it’s hard to notice the changes that are occurring in other parts of the world. Climate deniers hacked into a computer server at the University of East Anglias Climatic Research Unit just before Copenhagen. They stole over 10,000 e-mails and reworded them which put out phony evidence on climate change. No one lied but it was too late to retrive what the computer hackers had stolen. I could say it was oil companies who did the hacking but no one knows for sure. That would be like saying Obama blew up the Horizon rig; which some on this site have said.

      • Jim Cumber

        malc da falc & eddie 47d:

        The left wing bias of the teachers’ unions and the “dumbed down” education system has probably no greater proof than the whole “global warming” scam! EXAMPLE: I keep hearing these global warming alarmists claim that we will all drown when global warming melts the polar ice. RESPONSE: This is easily proven to be demonstrably FALSE by a simple scientific experiment which one can perform in their own kitchen! But, then again, we don’t seem to teach actual science in American schools, anymore: Fill a container (glass or plastic tumbler) half full of water and freeze it, then measure and mark the level of the ice, set the container out on the counter, and let the ice melt back into the container. You will note that the resulting water level is BELOW the level where the ice had been, QED!

      • Al Sieber

        eddie, prove. it

        • http://?? Joe H.

          Al,
          edduh! can’t prove it as you can’t prove a lie!!!!

          • eddie47d

            1/3rd of the Artic melted in 10 years that is a fairly potent fact. Calling something a lie when when it’s happening right “before your eyes” is rather childish.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            edduh!!,
            The lie was your statement that the hackers CHANGED the E-mails!! The center came out and admitted that the research had been FAKED!!!!

          • JC

            And the world’s oceans are going to rise and swallow us up…which is why the Reverend Al Gore bought a beach front estate.

      • http://ahalbert@smart-technology.net Allan

        One of the biggest, costliest scams in history.

  • libra

    SOON–THE MARXIST IN CHIEF WILL HAVE US ON BICYCLES AND ON FOOT.HOW MANY GALLONS PER MILE DOES HE CONSUME AS HE FLITS ABOUT THE WORLD CAMPAIGNING, MAKING APPEARANCES ON TV SHOWS, BEGGING FOR THE OLYMPICS AND LOSING HIS BID DUE TO THE CRIMINALITY IN CHICAGO? THE FORMER HIPPIES LOADED INTO HIS ADMINISTRATION WANT US TO WALK–DIE SOONER, BECOME VEGETARIANS AND DIE PENNILESS. THEY ALL WORSHIP AT THE ALTER OF THE GREEN GOD. WE CANNOT BE AN INDUSTRIAL GIANT AND A WORLD LEADER WITHOUT INEXPENSIVE ENERGY. HIS BUDDIES ALL HELPED IN THE DEMISE OF NUCLEAR POWER PLANTS–EVEN TO THE POINT OF CAUSING SOME TO BE DISMANTLED THAT WERE DUE TO COME ON LINE. WE DEVELOPED THE TECHNOLOGY AND THE REST OF THE WORLD BENEFITS. WE HAVE BEEN 40 YEARS BEHIND IN ENERGY DEVELOPMENT THANKS TO THE GREENIES AND NOW THEY WANT TO STARVE WHAT SOURCES OF ENERGY WE DO HAVE. THEY DO NOT EVEN HAVE TO DEPEND ON DONATIONS AS THE MARXIST IN CHIEF HAS SURROUNDED HIMSELF IN HIS SO CALLED ADMINISTRATION (DICTATORSHIP) AND SLIPS THEM FUNDS FROM HIS STASH.

    • http://?? Joe H.

      libra,
      Let us not forget his “date”!!!!!

  • atlas reborn

    doc sarvis I see you were one of those idiots that graduated from our public schools. We had a good alternative called nuclear power and you and your cohorts made an even bigger fight against nuclear power and that is why we do not have a large self sufficient power source of nuclear power as france does. France uses our technology and it works. also we would have had total self sufficient power from many different sources and been an exporter of products and we would have more jobs here but that would not let you wacos control us and make us slaves to you wacos.

    • Doc Sarvis

      HOW in the world do you know what my stand on nuclear energy was? And WHO do you assume are my cohorts?

      • eddie47d

        Atlas assumes the “shadow knows”

      • Al Sieber

        Yeah! the “shadow” knows.

  • http://yahoo Forrest M. Turner

    Hi!

    I have been following SUNCOR since they started. Their leadership, with great invstment of time and money, managed to overcome the attacks by the environ-mentaly impoverished.

    I have watched as every environ-mentally impoverished group in the USA, through their alliance with every other group that wants to destroy America, have for the most part succeeded in keeping the production in the USA oil sands from taking place.

    The environ-mentally impoverished can only be overcome by suing them into oblivion. Which is exactly what they deserve for all of the loss of income that they have heaped upon the people of this world.

    Unfortunately, people do not realize that a dollar out of their posket for fuels, tires, lubricants automobile parts,etc. is a dollar out of their disposable income.

    The answer is in the right education of the American people. DRILL HERE, DRILL HERE NOW!!

    fORREST

  • Richard Quiggle

    gulldurned green,environmentalists are going to bring the end to this glorious country. They want to protect the resources and get us to use renewable sources of energy instead of relying on foreign oil. Those commie, fascist, left wing tree huggers have the audacity to want to keep our air, land and water clean from man’s pollutants. Any good corporate American knows that we have enough resources for the near future and that’s good enough for us. If they keep it up we’ll do what we did to the last environmentalists that were here….eliminate them… like we did the Indians!

    • Doc Sarvis

      Yeah, and those greenies probably want to keep us from sending our young men and women (many of whom are poor anyway) to foreign countries to die and not be able to burn up a rapidly depleting resource. If I can’t pollute the environment and keep us from being a secure nation, well I’m just gonna hafta call people names!

      • ross

        You Greens can stroke each other all you want, but your gullibility that your leadership is all about the environment, sustainability, etc. is, well, sad.

        Case in point: you got the Western U.S. timber and lumber industry shut down, and the result is National Forests that are turning into snag patches of disease and insect blight, with the large fires of course.

        But you don’t know that, since you are Urban Shut-ins (rarely escape city limits), as are the media.

  • Stan

    Remember who the Greens are. They started in Germany as a far-left splinter political party that was so far out on the left fringe that they could not see back to the middle with binoculars! Their number one priority is not the environment, but the escalation of costs in a capitalist society so it could be brought down, as per the Cloward & Piven Strategy that was published in 1966 and that is closely followed by the current administration to achieve the ‘fundamental transormation of this country’.

    Energy of our industrial society should be produced and used from the most cost-effective sources. When the cost-effectiveness of one source will diminish, technology will develop other sources — without the “help” of some of the wild-eyed ideologues with an agenda.

    • ross

      You are far too rational(not to mention scholarly)for this site.

      The Lefties on this site, given a multiple choice question,would answer that Cloward and Piven were a nightclub act in the Catskills.

      Lemmings…sheep to the slaughter. They don’t even know who their prophets and high priests are…

  • Arthur Curtis

    I’d sure like to see the environmental groups come up with immediately viable solutions to the energy problems. Rather than putting their effort toward boycotts, trashing the energy industry, spewing leftist propaganda, &c., wouldn’t it be better for all (especially themselves) to start producing a better, greener, cheaper source of energy? To begin with, if I had their monetary resources I’d be developing wildly available, inexpensive renewable biofuels. Can you imagine the instant wealth to their coffers, and the entire U.S. singing their praises when the average citizen could fuel their vehicle for $1.10 a gallon; or emplace an off-grid electrical system on their house for less than $5 grand; or even heat their water/homes on pellet fuels for less than $15.00/ton? The sad side is by the very lack of environmental groups to pursue such ideas is proof that their agenda is not ‘green’ but socialist/marxist control and destruction of the United States of America. On a side note, N.Korea’s borders are designed to keep all people in or out, we in Arizona want to keep only the illegals out. I’d like to see a ‘check valve’ border allowing all who hate America to leave freely and not come back.

    • http://ahalbert@smart-technology.net Allan

      The greens aren’t interested in a win-win, which would move their agenda forward They will put any industry out of business they deem an obstacle. They lie. They exaggerate. They manipulate resources for their own profit if you look closely enough. Oh, there are some sincere ones, but those folks are simply facilitators. With any stated environmental “concern”, always look for the real motive.

      • ross

        The sincere ones are just “useful idiots”, identified as such in their own operations manuals. They go blissfully down the path, swinging their basket of flowers, humming “We shall overcome…”

  • http://gmail i41

    al, another communist democrat Prez was the main culpert for deep water off shore drilling, Whore hound Clinton, had companies go out in deep water, and the tax rate changes to nothing, all the greenie crap is the problem creaters. Government wonk agencies, prove what a bunch of f ups on the oil spill, they had to have studies, couldn’t reach agreement between other unelected eleitist overeducated morons in other agencies. Typical government, drag asses and in emergancies, theorizing and sit on their thumbs, go to meetings and rotate on each other digits. jopa, using water to power equipment, is a pipe dream that will not happen for at least 5 decades. All the whining about dirty fuel and green house gases, so when did CO2 harm trees and green plants? Some more EPA and greenies which are concrete morons talking points, did you anal brained morons see what the wilderness desiginated areas look like when pine beatles infest an area? Sierra Club, EPA, Friends of Nature, or any other simple minded dumbazzed organization who promote this crap, should see what damage is done to the enviorment. You can not salvage wood for cellouse ethanol plants, particle board production, or anything useful, the timber lays and creats more bugs and harmful problems, such as a hot wildfire which cann’t be fought or contained. Everything government gets it fingers involved in goes to hell, name one that hasn’t. Onumnuts has created another wilderness area of 1.2 million acres in Wyo. When some body comments on strip mining, either the dumbazzes don’t get out of the city, don’t read, or just watch feely meely and artsy fartsy channels or finger paint up their nostrils on feel good times. Go look out in Wyoming at strip mined coal pits, strip mined bentonite pits, after mining, it grows grasses up to 10 time more volume of forage, than before mining, also water resaviors are created for all animals to drink from.. Just more socialist democrat envior b–l s–t spewing false imformation. How is all these wonder electric vehicles going to operate and stay charge up, plug in to the pie in the sky outlets, use airy fairy dust electric generating plants. It will be at least 15 years before a nucuar generation plant could be built and brought on line, why, because all the bullcrap paper chasers passing reams of worthless forms back and forth, as well look to wait longer till every pus brained envior groups phony law suits. To say nothing about creating a power grid system, and more law suits. Natural gas works good for heating homes, propane gas has to be created which can be used on gas powered vehicles with some minor adaptations, which uses energy and is a by product of oil feild exploration. T. B. Pickens windmills proved what a fool he was and all enior nut jobs were full for bull, about the wonders, he thinks we can power class 8 trucks and heavy equipment with natural gas, it will work in warm temps, but if it get cold it doesn’t, when you have to inject water to prevent motor meltdown, just doen’t work. Why do you think countries across the pond use diesel, it is easy to create and real cheap in the energy used to make and supplies more power. All of our vehicle manufacturing companies make diesel models of cars, check out Chevy, Ford,Nission, and anyother manufacture that sells over in Europe. Over here ethanol lobbyists wanted every one to use gas or gas drevatives to keep supplies tight. Check 2006-2007 when you could not get a diesel powered VW car that would make over 50 mph, or any diesel including Mercedes. It was the democrat greeny EPA theorizing and trying to force USA to change to what the democraps wanted when they took over Congress. Why would any one doubt, the greenies lying, marxist democrats are all pathological lairs at best even on paying their taxes, and the greenies are just another deformed extension of a communist organization. The enviors will try to make sure we all go back to population travel on their parties model, a skinny jackass, which is a good model of the democrat party, they leave road apples to for everyone else to clean up, it stinks up everything and draws vermin just like the muslims and the Kenyan USA hater.

    • ross

      i41…

      So much of the population are Urban Shut-ins (96%)who have short attention spans and never get beyond city limits except as tourists.
      Environmentalists accurately assessed that fact as they got going on shutting down the Western US timber industry–they phonied up they Spotted Owl “issue”, the public bought it, and we have now what you describe: snag patches with rampant fungus, root rot, insect infestation, and none of it managed. Mistletoe alone in the Southern Sierra is a disaster, where it used to be cut out.

      But the Shut-ins have been herded along onto other “issues”. So easily herded.

      Thanks for your attention to the timberstand (real) issues.

  • Anthony

    - Oil sands supposedly, according to Porter Stansberry, has a new-er tehnology that now makes it more viable to extract the oil from the sand. For the last four years or more, they have promoted (with good reason, I think) that people everywhere invest in it. You can go to StansberryResearch-com and search for his Articles. The Investment Firm takes no money from anyone they only sell investment advice.

    - As for the Greenpeace and other Groups, they petition for (YOUR) TAX DOLLARS, and that’s how they stay afloat. YOUR Government alows them this dodge for free money (like ACORN does) because they perform a service for the Bilderbergers … keeping people off balance about the moola one can grab by investing in this opportunity. Whether they think they are doing CHINA or anyone else a favor, would have to be proven to me. I can send an email over to Porter and find out what his stance would be.

    The part that’s beginning to bother me (greatly) on Personal Liberty’s website… is this constant nonsense with everyone calling each other names. I know I slip once in a great while…, but 99% of the time, I hold my tongue and stick with discussing the actual issue presented in the Article(s). I was hoping the better side of everyone would be what is highlighted here… but especially on this Article (?) – - this is NOT the case. Pretty sad to see even Bob Livingston’s website falling into the gutter. Maybe he need to raise the bar with booting certain nimcompoops of his website. After awhile, many will get tired of creating new names for comment postings. And, how many times are you ready to create yet another email address just to come here..?

    Let’s clean it up, people….

    THE FACT THAT the Greens are defining this area of concern as being TWICE THE SIZE OF BRITAIN .. is exactly where they need to lose their Federal Funding, and I do mean immediately. But, again, we are talking about the Bilderberger’s puppets who blindly go about being Stepford Wives (male or female) … with no clue as to seriously how “expendable” they really are.

    As far as Arab Oil is concerned ? For the alst ten years, at least, I have read the reports on what OPEC states they have as Reserves in the Middle East and every year, it’s the same amount. Even though, the world uses up about 40 Trillion barrels a year. In IRAQ, the magic number is 112 billion that they contribute (supposedly) – howeever, OPEC has been known to exagerate what they really have. And, OPEC has not been seen to be finding anything new these days. If this is the case, how can they say that recently, their reserves somehow doubled ?? You can google this stuff up quite easily.

    In America, right in the middle of the Country, we have enough of our own Oil to keep us slippery for the next 500 years. So, what you hear on TV about all of this… is plain nonsense. Many of you voted to make this economy depressionable. Whether you have the salt to admit publicly is quite another discussion.

    Checking with reputable Investment Firms, especially about DRIP’s (Dividend Re-investment Programs) you will find out what the true story is on OIL … not the Bilderberger/Media driven nonsense that gets repeated daily like: “Where’s the beef?”

    I would not doubt that COrporate Ethics International is on the WOrld Bank’s Payroll, and neither should you. If the Fractional Banking System defines they have a right to just keep printing new money any time they want… then, they would do so for just about any one who is ready to carry their water for them, so they need not get their fingers dirty. That’s a straight on definitive point of contention. Prove otherwise.

    JUST REMEMBER – these groups stay alive with YOUR tax dollars. And, unless you have some game plan where you get ALL of your taxes back every year… then being Lefty or Righty don’t mean a hill o’ beans… You’re all donating to their cause.

    • eddie47d

      Anthony ; Greenpeace is in cahoots with Bilderbergs! Stop making my stomach hurt with laughter. That’s a real stretch!

      • Anthony

        Tell us, Eddie – what DO they talk about in those annual Bilderberg Meetings? I mean, seriously. Your buddy Shulzberger doesn’t confide in you what the next phase for the New World Order might be? Your response, btw, proves you cannot be involved with any Patriot Movement at all – all I hear is: “We give up, just don’t shoot us”/i ….

        • eddie47d

          More laughter!

          • ross

            …the reliable response from Ed, EVERYtime he is presented with a direct question or solicitation for specifics.

            That’s nothing new. A direct answer from a Utopian has seldom been witnessed by anyone. The Utopian’s response is generally name-calling, deflection, obfuscation, or–an attempt at comedy.

            But, they ARE cute. Like stuffed animals (OK-I got nuthin’either, when it comes to comedy).

          • eddie47d

            Ross dude, How would I know about anything from a Bilderberg meeting? Do you have the inside scoop? I doubt if Anthony does either. More laughter for such a dumb question.

  • http://donthaveone Beberoni

    Of course they are filled with lies and misleading. Are they not done by a left wing liberal organization? Have we ever seen them portray the truth in anything they do? And propanganda is exactly what they do. Thats all they have, is propaganda to lie to people to try to get them to think like they do. If they present the out and out facts and expose the truth to those who dont know about this stuff, it would show just how whacked these people are. Its just like these womens group here get their knickers all twisted over little bitty things, yet they are no where to be seen when it comes the the middle eastern women being treated like slaves. Their husbands kill them when they want them no more, and nothing is said. Where are the human rights people at? They are defending terrorists from being water boarded as we try to save American lives by getting information from them. They defend them. Why are they not on their high horse and saving this middle eastern women from having to walk around in black burkas in 120 degree sun? From getting beaten for accidently bumping into someone. From being treated worse than an animal by their husband, who is their OWNER now. You liberals take the cake. You take on every cause, except those where you might have to do a little work, get your hands dirty, and take a little risk. Unbelievable.

    • eddie47d

      Beberoni; More garbage from the King of trash. Liberals are very concerned about the treatment of Arab women. Go read a few Liberal publications(if you dare) and get your facts straight. You are the one who is unbelievable so go lie to your family and leave us alone.

      • Anthony

        Eddie, Edddie, Eddie … pretending to vocalize “tommy daschle-like-concern” in the Media isn’t the same thing as bringing coercion to bear on the Country allowing it to happen in the first place.

        They may SAY anything .. it doesn’t usually translate into any real action on the Left’s part. Lefty’s always speak of “feelings” but they are never in the LEAD (first in line) to provide real action. When 9/11 occurred, it took two weeks before they finally decided to at least SAY they were patriotic… when the whole Country knows, it’s the DEM party pushing the hardest for Communism in this Country.

        • eddie47d

          Anthony,Anthony,Anthony! Liberal and Liberal groups were the 1st (and not the only ones)to hit the beaches to help clean up after the Horizon spill. We love America The Beautiful how about you? Conservatives 1st reactions to the spill “It’s only a part of doing business” Or “Obama must have sabotaged it”. So much for patriotism ! It’s oil companies first for them and then maybe we’ll think about environmental damages. Some even said “businesses can do what they want as long as they are making money”. That is a fairly normal comment for those who believe corporations can do no wrong.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            edduh!,
            typical progressive tactic. Don’t answer a question directly, they might see you are a progressive and dumb!!!

        • eddie47d

          Okay Joe H. Make more wasted dumb comments it’s so you.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            edduh!,
            I’m sorry!! It’s just so easy with you I figure dumb statements are all you can fathom!!!!

          • eddie47d

            Joe,read H20′s bible verse below and realize the foot in mouth that has inflicted so many conservatives. It’s like you farting and forgetting to take the covers off.

  • H20

    Members of Corporate ETHICS International, Greenpeace and Sierra Club, Take notice: Read Revelations 21:8 (NIV). This includes you.

    • eddie47d

      That verse fits the Republican Party to a tee.Especially with the BP explosion and their support for corporate greed. (“the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone”).

  • Rennie

    What, besides inflation, greater foreign dependence and higher fuel costs, did the Carter energy and enviromental policies do for us 40 years ago, that now like complete idiots, people in this country are determined to repeat them? It’s all about teh money, if teh environment was really more important than unions and their money/votes, the Jones Act would have been repealed day one of the BP oil spill. Everyone enjoying the benefits of fossil fuels that condemns same is a hypocryt and a tool.

  • eddie47d

    First of all Democrates and environmentalists raised a ruckus about our depending on the use of foreign oil. They were in the forefront of that issue. They also condemned the Republicans for not taking the 19 Saudi hijackers seriously and instead invaded Iraq. So don’t lay that “the Dems don’t care and they are the bad guys” crap on any of us. Maybe the opposite is true? John Meyers is like the CEO’s of GM. Saying how wonderful life is at their company.(buy our cars-were the best). John is advertising for his home Provence and a great salesman. The tar sands are near Edmonton and not near the major tourist areas.(Lake Louise,Banff,Columbia Glaciers). The oil fields will not directly effect anyone who wants to visit southern Alberta. So this ad campaign will not or shouldn’t stop anyone from going through Calgary. On the other end 600 sq km is a whopping big dig and the concern over damages is quite real.(no different than any oil project). I wouldn’t put blinders on when it comes to any oil company like John Meyers does. The damages in Nigeria (Shell oil and others)is unbelievable. Most of it is permenent at least in many life times. Yesterday 7/27/10 there was an oil spill in Marshall Township,Mich. 800,000 gals. of oil spilled into the Kalamazoo River. Birds and fish were killed and drinking water contaminated. (Embridge Energy Partners). So environmental damage is everywhere from oil companies and our health will be affected. There was another oil spill a few miles from the Horizon site 2 days ago. We need to protect the environment and demand more accountability from all sources of energy.

    • Anthony

      “First of all Democrates and environmentalists raised a ruckus about our depending on the use of foreign oil.”

      Oh really … that’s also why they are blocking ALL oil drilling right here in this Country? You don’t get to have your cake and eat it, too. It was the DEMs who gave us gas rationing in the 70′s; along with an impasse about 400 hostages in IRAN, like the gutless turds they are.

      This insistence on “blind patriotism” for the Democrat (not democrates) Party is laughable, at best. You are asleep walking the streets in complete oblivian to the events around you. Parroting that which you are (cattle?)-prod(ed) to repeat everywhere you go.

      And… NO … I am not a Republican. I am a Libertarian. You know what that is, don’t ya, Eddie? A Libertarian is someone that Obama wants to label as a Terrorists … because WE stand for the Constitution. It is YOUR Party, pal, that labels others for degradation.

      Those of us on here, LIKE ME, simply will not wear your Swastika, period.

      • eddie47d

        Nixon gave us gas rationing Mr Libertarian. Off shore drilling is on a moratorium and might resume when oil companies get their act together.Bringing up swastika crap shows your intellect. I don’t believe Obama has even mentioned the Libertarian Party but you can fantasize all you want.

        • ross

          Eddie just stopped his bicycle at a traffic light, forgot he had taken his training wheels off and his feet were strapped onto the pedals.

          He tipped over. Some Conservative ran over and blocked traffic and helped him up.

          Then Ed rode off down the street on his hemp tires….

          • ross

            Banff? Lake Louse? Sorry buncha tourist traps.

            I’m going to Medecine Hat and on up to Peace River…

  • Bob Wire

    So you are not so much objecting to what these “agents of change” are doing but where they have stared?

    yet ~ you seem to resent the campaign in it’s entirety while defending Alberta with the premise China was being over looked as a major contributor and leaving a much larger carbon foot print.

    of course you are correct, this is true.

    It is also true, one needs to clean up their own backyard before attempting to place such burden on a neighbor about his yard.

    Backyard issues have been neglected far too long and way too often in recent years as American Interest and focus has trotted the Globe over.

    It’s time for America to spend some time and money in it’s own cotton picking hemisphere. Invest in ourselves, invest in our closest neighbors. ~ The needs today are great!

  • chuck b

    eddie47

    i’ll bet the futures market loves people like you and the greenie’s.
    could it be that people like george soros amd other market manipulators keep people with less intelligence riled up with this constant crying of global warming, running out of oil, can’t drill here its a national monument and so on. better yet we can all drive around in a battery operated car (around the block) soros thanks you, it keeps the rumors flying, there’s an oil shortage and investors on the commodity market make millions, just ask old george if you don’t believe me. why do you think the price of gas is so high, it’s not that we are running out of oil, it’s the greed of the market and it goes all the way to the gas pump. and they have the environmental whacko’s to keep the money rolling in. another thing eddie we don’t have to depend on foriegn oil it’s whacko’s like the greenie’s and the sierra club that put up that cry and it keeps the futures market a lucrative place for big oil and big investors like your leader george soros. so go down and buy yourself a car that runs on batteries, barry will love you and just think you can drive 100 miles and only have to wait four hours while charging to get the next 100. it “ain’t” going to happen.
    and if you bleeding hearts are all so concerned about these 3rd world nations starving, then i suggest you send them birth pills and castrate the majority of the males. the more you fed them the more you propagate the problem.

    • Anthony

      Ha … Soros … google up his Life Story one time…. ALL of you.

      • eddie47d

        More boogeyman stories Anthony? How about Blackwater,Haliburton,Rockefellers or maybe the Queen of England.

  • Joyce from Loris

    Back in the ’90′s, I developed a method to take waste chemicals from drug companys and turn it into clean, usable ethanol for a blend with gasoline that would have cut the gasoline consumption in half. The EPA loved it, because all that waste material was being burned, releasing toxins into the atmosphere. No green peace, tree hugging idiots showed up, but the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT did. They could not figure out how the operation worked under their CURRENT PROCEDURES, and how to tax me enough. So, they deemed that I must operate under the same rules and regulations as DRINKING ALCOHOL PRODUCERS had to operate, and taxed me as such. This made the operation completely unsustainable, because the taxing was too vast. The government says they welcome new, innovative ideas, but they only welcome the taxation part of it. They kill small business people who are trying to make a living and provide something positive to our country as well.

    • http://ahalbert@smart-technology.net Allan

      Yes, Obama in particular is a small-business killer.

    • ross

      Greenpeace didn’t show up because your operation wasn’t the ideal photo-op for them to raise money from an endless line of suckers.

  • Eva Uran

    I am fed up with the lies you ultra-conservatives are putting up. You want dirty oil and dirty coal and don’t give a damn about global warming. For this reason I am unsubscribing from your bulletins altogether. While I support Internet freedom I am vehemently opposed to your (offensive word removed) about the environment. Wish you watched PBS series about national parks. People like you opposed the establishment of national parks for shortsighted reasons of profit but future generations blessed the courage and foresight of those park crusaders. I refuse to read any more of your bulletins. Goodbye for good!

    • chuck b

      eva

      goodbye!!

      • Anthony

        Ditto. Put downs and degradation. That’s all she had to say. NO discussion of the issues… just finger pointing … YOU.. YUO … YOU… WOW, what a waste.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Eva,
        Is that an iron clad promise????

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      I love the National Parks. And I love driving my gasoline burning engine in my car. I like the comforts oil give to my life, my parents life, and my childrens life. I love being able to heat my house without having to to outside and cut down tree’s. I like the plastic products that makes my life easier. And your talking to a guy who would be just as happy living on the side of a mountain in a cave outside. I love America. Question is, if your so against oil, I hope you put your money where your mouth is, and dont ever drive a car, or ride in one, or your a hippocrite. Or use anything plastic, like a credit card or a bottle, or your a hippocrite. If your serious about what your saying, you need to back it with actions, and stop using these oil based products, because then you become a part of this problem that is so bugging you.

      • ML

        My solar panels offer comfort without your high bills!

        • http://?? Joe H.

          ML,
          yes, but do they power a whole city? Or are you not worried about that? where do the people that can’t afford to install them go? they just barely afford to pay their electric and gas bills!!

    • ross

      Keep watching that PBS if you want a perpetually sheltered worldview, Eva.

      In your PBS-managed worldview, you will never have exposure to a lot of information.

      One example: the first Redwood groves for State Parks in California were DONATED by timber companies long before it was trendy to be an environmentalist.

      You don’t know this. Why? Because you get your info from sources such as PBS.

      Did the piece on National Parks include information about the disastrous condition of the National FORESTS now that the environmentalists managed to shut down virtually all timber stand management? No–it’s easy to pass over that when PBS watchers are primarily Urban Shut-ins who virtually never leave city limits, except as tourists.

      Good Luck finding Utopia.

  • Yvan

    There is no doubt that we are killing this planet at an incredible rate. The problem is there is nothing to replace oil for the next 15 years. As for the tar sands in Alberta they are cleaning their act in a big way. The lost of one bird is one too many. This is why you can’t live it to the private enterprise to police themselves. The Government of Alberta is stepping in with strict new guidelines to protect the environment. In the mean time while Americans are bad mouthing the Tar sands and boycotting investment in that area, the Chinese are investing billions of dollars and are taking over the complete area. The reserve is estimate at 6 trillions gallons of oil. Too bad for USA.

    • http://?? Joe H.

      Yvan,
      If the death of one bird is too many then don’t go with wind energy!!! death of one tortise or one lizard too many? don’t go with solar!! Extinction of one bird too many? then don’t build another house!! Oh, and don’t eat chicken, turkey or pheasant!!!!

    • Pathfinder

      Actually there is plenty of doubt as to whether humanity is killing this planet. Your dogmatism in this regard shows the irrationality of your position.

    • Pathfinder

      I still remember the dire predictions about “running out of oil” by the 1990s. It has not happened. And, projected oil reserves have been increased. It seems we have more oil NOW than we did in the 70s. Why ? You may ask. Because exploration and improved drilling technology have made it possible to reach deposits that were once unavailable. Like any finite supply, we shall one day run out. But until that time comes it is foolish to abandon this useful resource while it can still sustain us. Meanwhile, let us stop using government handouts to the politicians favored solutions; and allow the free market to develope the new technologies that we will need when the oil finally does run out. That is the system that has worked in the past and will continue to work far better than socialist controls.

    • ross

      Yvan,

      The loss of wildlife habitat and the death of wildlife itself, resulting from fires in unmanaged National Forests, is incalculable. DO NOT villainize private enterprise or preach to me about habitat loss when ENVIRONMENTALISM, INC. is responsible for the ongoing disaster in National Forests.

      Unfortunately, you appear to be just another Urban Shut-in who does not get around much.

    • ross

      …hey, Ivan…

      …after we buy all the world’s cheap oil at today’s (and even TOMORROW’S prices), the U.S. will still have all its oil shale, tar sands, coal, natural gas, etc….

      Then YOU can come begging the U.S. for fossil fuels…and they’re not gonna be cheap. Start saving your money…

      Too bad for the U.S., indeed!!!

      You and the rest o’ the world been gamed by Uncle!!!

  • http://donthaveone Beberoni

    Maybe Im alone on an Island here, but I like what oil brings us. I like filling my car with gasoline and being able to drive where ever my heart pleases. I like being able to lubricate things that need lubricating. I like the plastic products that make our lives easier that come from it. What I dont like is being dependant on middle eastern muslim terrorists. We have enough here, and all our so called leaders are doing, is planning on using up all the middle east oil and then start with ours. In the mean time, we have made them zillionaires, who will then take that money, come over here and start buying up these oil fields, when we finally tell the greens to take a hike, then we will still be beholden to them. We need to drill now, and stop buy from them, bottom line. You cannot shut down America because some choose to demonize big oil. All weve got for energy is coal, and the greenies have allready demonized that also. Wind turbines are too expensive, ugly, and where are the greenies when all these birds are getting killed by them? Its ok when their choice of technology does it. Isnt that sweet. For now, give me my oil, or lets go back to horse and buggys, and Ill ride my horse everywhere.

    • Anthony

      True enough, alright. Remember, all the DEMs using private gashog Jets one per Politician instead of flying in a group to show how they could save energy? Remember that, during the election? I always snicker every time a Liberal (jockstrap?) Supporter tries to defend those in Office for the Left who spend and waste good resources and humongous amounts of tax dollars, then expect to blow the Citizens off with no explanations. The whole Country is tired of their hypocrisy; the fact they can’t take what it is they dish out. ‘Course, that was the mark of the Soviet Union, now… wasn’t it.

      • eddie47d

        Dear Anthony. politicians are supposed to jump onto one plane and travel to 50 States? Will they be parachuting out over each State? Even if you meant otherwise I wouldn’t even wish the delays at airports on politicians. How about those going to Alaska or Hawaii? That’s 5-8 hours to get there as it is. So put the scotch down and think straight!

        • Purcupile

          Eddie…Your creative thinking isn’t working…that is probably because you are told what to think on every issue. Ok class lets do this exercise together. California has 2 Senators and 53 members of the house of representatives. How many total members of Congress does California have? 55 very good Eddie, I’m glad to see you are paying attention today. If it takes 10,000 gallons of fuel to fly from Washington D.C. to California, how many gallons of fuel does it take for all members of California’s delegation to fly on private planes back to Californiia? 550,000…my thats a big number isn’t Eddie? Eddie! pay attention please! If each gallon of aviation fuel costs $6.38 per gallon…how much would it cost for each member to fly home on their plane? $63,800 Thank you Nancy! My that’s is a lot of money isn’t it Eddie? How much does your daddy make each year Eddie? Oh! really? The government pays him not to work?…well back to my last 3 questions…how much will it cost all of them to fly home to California on their individual jets? WOW! $3,509,000 That really is a lot of money isn’t it class! Eddie I wonder if your grandgfather and great-grandfather made that much money combined in their whole lives? Oh really, Iwo Jima? That’s sad Eddie, but I’ll bet you are proud that he fought for this country to keep you free. Do you think he would be proud of you Eddie? No? I don’t either. (Sound of bell ringing) Well that’s it for today class…tomorrow we will talk about the timeline it took the Federal Government to respond to the Horizon Oil Spill and for our math drill we will talk about President Obama’s golfing scores.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            edduh!,
            I have to hand it to your hero, he spent a whole three hours on a oil spoiled beach!! Not to worry though, It didn’t interfere with his FIVE hour golf game!!!!

          • Pathfinder

            Purcupile: Please, for the sake of eddie47d, include the computation of the amount saved if all these people flew together on one craft to california. I fear that the computation may be too difficult for him. My thanks in advance.

            Pathfinder
            82d Airborne Division
            Retired

          • Jana

            Purcupile,
            And also please remind eddie that this is for only one trip. How many trips do they make back and forth a year?

          • eddie47d

            Jana; If your suggesting plane pooling or car pooling or mass transit or bullet trains then I’m on board.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Purcupile,
            also tell him to tell his lady, SanFranNan to use the SMALLER JET!!! The one that originally came with her office!!! Better fuel economy and all, you know!

        • DS

          The answer is to cut down on the number of politicians. The federal gov needs to slim down – shut down the Dept of Energy, FDA, USDA, Dept of Education, FTC, Fish and Wildlife, IRS, – give’em all pink slips. Give the power back to the states where it was meant to be.
          Problem solved.

  • eddie47d

    The Arabs own a good chunk of America and our Capitalists allowed them to buy millions of acres of land and numerous buildings. China is not the only one who owns us and it comes down to capitalistic greed and no foresight. Berberoni you have allot of misplaced anger.

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      I have no anger pal. Only sorrow that people who are supposed to be Americans, the left wing liberals, do so many damning things to this country, and empower those who seek to destroy us. If that doesnt sadden you or stir any kinds of emotions in you, then your a sicker man than all of us think.

      • eddie47d

        Yes it saddens me that the Republicans won’t do more for the collapse that they helped bring forth on this country. Tell them to pull their heads out of the sand and man up on the problems we face. If a political party can’t admit it’s mistakes it’s bound to repeat those mistakes over and over again. We’ve had decades of these dog and pony shows and it doesn’t look good no matter who is in power.

        • Pathfinder

          YEP!! Both the demipublicans and the republicrats have done plenty to ruin this nation. Both of the old, corrupt parties are crooked. That is why I urge all of my fellow citizens, if you really want change (improvement and not worsening); then VOTE LIBERTARIAN !!

      • Claire

        Beberoni–I agree with you. I hate to see what is happening to America and to all of us. What I feel bad about is that America and all Americans have been led down a path of destruction. When we voted, I think we all truthfully believed we were voting for the “best” person. I will give us all the benefit of a doubt, we tried to do our best but we have been misled by the powers that be. They have lied to all of us in one way or another. The powers that be did not care about this country. They only cared about their own greed and pocketbooks. I really think we have been sold out by all of them.

    • ross

      The Americans were pretty slick then, selling the Arabs the real estate at inflated prices…let’s congratulate ourselves, and buy it back from the Arabs at pennies on the dollar….

  • Dave

    It’s time to revolt!Enough said!

    • Normal Guy

      Death to the revolutionaries/traitors

      • DaveH

        A “peace-loving” Liberal comes out of the closet.

        • Normal Guy

          Dopey Dave

          Happy and willing to stand up against traitors to this great nation.

          All the dopes that call for violence, that think that they have some vision for this country which has never existed – the last hundred years have seen this na6tion become the greatest in all history. You and the rest of your dopey friends seem to think that this success is unaceptable.

          You and the other morons want to live in a nation that has never been the United States. You all clearly have hated this nation since 1900. Idiots.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            normal guy(?)
            Screw you guy. I fought for this nation for eighteen months while you were probably still in diapers, if you were even born!! don’t tell me I’m a traitor You puss livered scuzz!! I swore to protect the constitution from all enemies both foreign and domestic, and that didn’t end the day I ETS’d! you can kiss where the sun don’t shine!!

      • Pathfinder

        Tory !!

    • Pathfinder

      I too favor armed rebellion. However, unlike our founding fathers, who faced one tyrant 3000 miles away; we now face 3000 tyrants only one mile away. Do you think that there is still a chance of success ??

      • Normal Guy

        Death to the revolutionaries & traitors

  • doug

    expose all lies allways expose lies for the lies,they are. lying is a sin there is no reason not to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth

  • Anthony

    Here’s another little tidbit that was going on, which I was alerted to by Stansberry Research.

    In California, there is a hole being dug, into the Earth’s mantle. Think Crack in the World (1965 sci-fi movie w/ Dana Andrews) The project was being efforted and funded by the U.S. Navy. It was approved by both Parties, but at the time, the DEMs were in control of Congress. It was highly recommended by Stansberry as a great investment program … much like another Government Investment cash cow … known as: A.O.P.

    Well, when Harry Reid took over the Senate, no more investments by the Public were allowed. Only the Insiders had access to such perks. And, the issue has been hush-hush ever since. Curious, Lefties… how do you feel about your Dynomite Leaders NOT sharing this wealth with you.

    • Normal Guy

      What about the lizard aliens infiltrating through the hole in the ozone at the south pole and all the high tech magic they have been selling to the Bilderburgs??

      I hear that it is all controled by the imperious leader – his name is Sam, Sam the imperious Bilderburger alien lover.

      What about that?

      • Pathfinder

        Do you also see elvis in UFOs?? Please, while there are some real conspiracies in the world; these ridiculous theories are a great cover for them. Then when someone tries to present actual evidence of a genuine conspiracy, you point to these foolish ones and mock the researcher. A very effective method to hide genuine conspiracies by spreading stupid ones.

        • Normal Guy

          Can’t find the path – lost guy

          Great you have actual evidence of your conspiracy, it is not just the fabrication of an addled brain.

          What is it? who have you met? what meetings have you been a part of. What documents can you present? Show me some hard evidence, I just can’t wait to see it.

  • BPbreaks

    Last year the Obama administration granted oil giant BP a special exemption from a legal requirement that it produce a detailed environmental impact study on the possible effects of its Deepwater Horizon drilling operation in the Gulf of Mexico, an article Wednesday in the Washington Post reveals.
    Federal documents show that the Department of the Interior’s Minerals Management Service (MMS) gave BP a “categorical exclusion” on April 6, 2009 to commence drilling with Deepwater Horizon even though it had not produced the impact study required by a law known as the National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA). The report would have included probable ecological consequences in the event of a spill.
    The exemption came less than one month after BP had requested it in a March 10 “exploration plan” submitted to the MMS. http://www.wsws.org/articles/2010/may2010/gulf-m06.shtml

  • Da Norseman

    And it figures that these Greens are headquartered in San Francisco, the most corrupt city in the world, which I don’t even consider it a part of the U.S. anyway.

    • Pathfinder

      Please remember these are not just greens. They are watermelons. They are only green on the outside. Inside they are as red as the kremlin.

      • Da Norseman

        Nothing can be further from the truth than that one!!!

        • http://?? Joe H.

          Da norseman,
          I think he was agreeing with you!!

  • http://gmail i41

    Clinton and Gore “the whore” went to China and got campaign funds and the the slant eyed bastards “bought a naval base in Kalifaggotora, next 12 ity blocks in down town Denver in 1999, it is registered as owned as Republic of China. The Stansbury Report shows how much oil we have in a couple of areas in the country, over 2000 years. To many idoits beleive oil, coal and combustion engines are dirty. Most of these concrete pounders have never built or created something productive in life but theorize and go to liberal fag arts schools. The countries that hate the USA, because we have more energy than the rest of them do, we can produce more food than they can, and if the socialist bastards in Washington weren’t owned by the forgien dictators, we could tell the muslim and slant eyed bastards to go screw themselves. In the last 3 1/2 years the marxist democrats don’t want a USA super power. Dems never wants USA to take a hard line with dictators, or now any diaper headed pedophile nutjob. Just look at the muslim marxist and his jackwagoned approach to the muslims and touchy feely crap with all the nutjob bastards. The greenies just got used like a rented mule by the USA haters, which all democrats are, mules and USA haters.

    • eddie47d

      Are you having a Gay meltdown again i41? I love you (not in your gay way)but your tirades drive me farther and farther away from the Republican or Libertarian Parties. Keep up the good work!!

      • Pathfinder

        Eddie: Considering your current distance from Libertarians, Republicans, or any economically sound reasoning; I fail to see how it would be possible for you to get even farther away. (Of course if the universe is infinite rather than finite; then it may in fact occur.)

        • Jana

          Pathfinder,
          eddie is from Canada, that is why he is like he is.

          • eddie47d

            So is John Meyers

    • http://?? Joe H.

      i41,
      Watch it guy, edduh! is hitting on you!!! Don’t drop anything!!!

  • Jim H.

    A few years back a group of people and I were talking about alternate energy sources. We had a group of physicists from Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory and some people who were Sierra Club members. The topic of green house gasses and solar energy came up. The physicist said the process to make solar panels creates green house gasses. You get less green house gasses produced for each kilo watt hour from a coal burning plant then from the KWH you would get from a solar panel. I don’t know if the physicist was trying to yank the Sierra Club members chains( copious amounts of alcohol were involve) or if there is something to it. If he is right it sure is something to look into.

  • Common Cents

    The current totalitarian regimes policies are anti-American, just look at the current Congress who is legislating against the will of the American people. If these idiots can’t create chaos and anarchy then they are not achieving their goals. They are dangerous as they want to create agencies who will enforce their misguided policies long after they are gone. The majority of Americans want to see there freedom restored and not continually eroded by the incremental takeover by this anarchist regime. Voters can change the course and stop all this creeping socialism right now by having the resolve to boot these miscreants out in November.

    • Pathfinder

      The big problem is to insure that we do not just replace a bunch of crooks with “D”s behind their names, with a bunch of crooks with “R”s behind their names. Both parties have kept us going in the same direction; bigger and more intrusive government. Who will turn this country around; and when will they do it ??

  • Cheryl Maurer

    As with anything that a left-wing group puts out, I put my hands over my ears and go la la la la la. I think many Americans have awakened to the fact that this group of people are liars and hate mongers. It took me a long time to wake up but I know there are many of us waiting to strike back in November. By the way, the oil is dissapating in the Gulf because the Ocean is a natural protector of its marine life.

    • Claire

      I care about the environment. And the oil spill in the Gulf will leave its mark for decades. If BP had dome their job correctly and had the proper equipment, maybe none of this would have happened. But it did happen. This was caused by human negligence and the government wasted valuable time and turned away help during the first days of this disaster. I will never forgive them for this. The people in these states are the ones that have lost a way to make a living, the wetlands have been ravaged and only the good Lord knows what is happening to the marine life.
      With all the teechnology we have, I would think there would be other ways to get oil onshore and still protect the environment. If they would only use common sense and actually CARE, instead of thinking about profit and their neverending greed, maybe we could solve this problem.

      • Claire

        If BP had “done”

        technology — not what I typed. Sorry.

      • Purcupile

        “first days of this disaster”…did you mean first months of this disaster?

        • Claire

          Purcuplie–I meant the first day, the second day, the third day–I am well aware the government srewed around for 2 months.

          • Claire

            “screwed” not what I typed. Time for me to go to bed.

          • Claire

            Heck, they screwed around for 3 months, didn’t they? Anyway, it is disgusting.

  • Claire

    I believe there is hate stemming from both parties. Both parties are certainly putting out their share of hatemongering, propaganda, and lies. Both parties have dealt America a blow. This chaos has been in the works for decades. I cannot believe people think only one party is at fault. The handwriting is on the wall, it has been there for 30 years.

  • Stephen Russell

    Its due to these groups that we are in this damn Mess, Sue them A-Z any Eco group whose
    Anti Oil
    Anti drilling
    More Govt
    More Regs
    Than wonder why Green Tech wont fly.

    Blame & Sue Them.

    Class Action is fine, we have 1M whod sign the suit alone.

  • Dave

    I have worked in Alberta’s oilsands since 1972. They have mined less than 1% of the oil deposited there. I actually think the anti oilsands campain is funded by the middle east oil cartel. The single biggest threat to the Arab chokehold over energy is Alberta.

    Peak oil is a myth perpetuated by the big oil interests. You can crack sub-bituminous coal down to create diesel and gasoline. The proccess was invented and refined around 1901. Your by-product is coking coal that can be used for steel making. It is less than half the cost of conventional crude.

    Those coal coking plants were the target of allied bombing during WW 2. The Germans were making their aircraft gasoline from coal. Politics and stupidity perpetuate American reliance on middle east oil.

    • Pathfinder

      Just a stray thought – Can you tell me if the vast coal deposits that Bill Clinton placed off limits with the stroke of his pen (via executive order) is the type that can be converted to oil ?? An interesting angle on the subject don’t you think ?

  • http://YellowDogsandDemocratHandouts. Lester Havens

    I have read a lot of the comments here on this blog and I have yet to read anything that addresses the fact that we will never be able to do without oil. You all forget that the computer your using or the auto you drive, or most of the things in your home are all made from oil byproducts. There would be no plastics from which auto upholstery is made, no computer chips and indeed, no computers we could use at home. There is some plastic in almost all of everything we use; home building, automobiles, firearms, tools, furniture, home appliances, you name it. For someone to say that we must be free from oil dependency is absolutely ludicrous. THINK ABOUT IT!! And for anyone out there who thinks this country can’t rely on its own oil reserves(not offshore) I have news for you. Beneath the soil of the good ole U.S. of A. is more oil than all the rest of the world combined. The reason we can’t get to it . . . . the EPA!

    • Pathfinder

      And let us not forget that the EPA was NOT started by congress. The EPA was formed via an executive order. Whose executive order ?? Richard Nixon’s. Just one of the many reasons I agree that BOTH of the old, corrupt parties are at fault here.

    • Jana

      Then you didn’t read it all because a couple of us, me included, have brought this up. But, we thank you for reinforcing it.

    • ross

      Cellulose can sub for oil-based plastic. To what extent I’m not sure, buuuuuuuut….since cutting a tree is, uhhh–tree hate?– that’s it–the “Progressives”(love that word LOL)don’t want us to have that either.

      How ’bout plastic from hemp? If an entrepreneur started making a profit from it, “Progressives” (love that word–it’s hilarious)would be compelled to put an end to it. Big Mary, as they would call it, would have to be enjoined from cutting the last of the old growth cannibus, destroying the habitat of the endangered wharf rat.

      • Jana

        hahaha, I just had an idea. If they can make it from cellulose then we have a lot of people around that could possibly harvest this cellulose and would be happy to do it. It is aka body fat.

  • Common Cents

    The inmates are running the aylum in Wash. D.C., as common sense and reason are being replaced with insanity and idiocy. If this is the kind of leadership we want then we all ought to have our heads examined for gray matter. The mushheads running things have completely forgot that they are serving the people not the other way around. We need true government servants, not ideologues and demagogues who spew their vile and divisive rhetoric to serve their government expansionist policies at the expense of the US taxpayer paying the freight for this bungling ineptitude.

  • Delores Smith

    JOHN MEYERS – TERRIFIC ARTICLE – THANK YOU -
    It seems that evil forces are urging tourists not to go to Alberta, Canada, labeling it “the other oil disaster.” Corporate Ethics International is not really ethical, nor is the Sierra Club and Greenpeace (that’s my opinion..and I’ve never been wrong.).
    This is another move toward pushing green energy which is really a ploy. Do you recall, “Divide and Conquer” (Obama is attempting this now.). It appears that this group is discouraging tourism in Alberta with its main goal of destroying its oil industry. They are telling green lies. Vacation in Alberta, Canada in the summer and come on down to Arizona in the winter. Anytime in between, vacation at our Gulf states. Americans, we will not allow anyone to distort the TRUTH.
    Delores Smith
    Delores109@cox.net

    • ross

      …very few MENTALISTS have ever been to Alberta; they just parrot whatever their pied pipers say on a given day. Alberta is immense, with immense diversity, a fantastic province, and has always been a major oil producer even before the tar sands became viable. The tar sands are on or near the surface; there have always been pools of the stuff visible from the air, similar to the Brea Tar Pits in L.A.

      • Denniso

        Great idea…let’s destroy the entire natural surface eco system of Alberta,or any other place we find tar sands and oil shale, and replace it w/ a manmade replica…reclaimed and smoothed over to resemble the nature that existed for thousands of yrs….in another thousand yrs the plant and animal life may return. It’s certainly worth it so we can continue to drive our Hummers and F-350′s and giant homes on wheels that get 7 miles/gal. What’s the loss of a little nature in comparison to being able to live ‘Free’????

  • 45caliber

    There is one thing I can’t really understand.

    The “green” people are very much against oil for ANY use. Why? Particularly when they drive their oil-run vehicles, use oil-provided electricity, use plastics in their daily lives, and in general use oil products daily.

    Many times these same people are against the killing and use of animals – yet they wear oil based products in their clothing. Where do they think polyethylene and nylon come from? Thin air?

    Even the electronics they use depend upon oil for those items to be built.

    I believe that if these people are REALLY against oil and oil products they should immediately abandon use of anything that comes from oil.

    We wouldn’t have to listen to them then since they would be living like the cave men did.

    • Pathfinder

      These watermelons (green on the outside and red on the inside) will not be content to only live like cavemen themselves. They wish to force all of us to live (die ?) like cavemen too. And many of us must die since the caveman level of technology will not support the vast numbers of humanity that now occupy the planet.

      • Denniso

        Isn’t that clever…so all the people pushing for ‘green’ energy are communists? ‘Red on the inside’? So, Bill Gates,Warren Buffet and Ted Turner are all communists? Wow, I never knew!

        Like I’ve said already…all the ‘greens’ want is to balance energy use w/ the health of the planet that is the only thing that sustains us. Destroy the health of the planet past a point and we’ll be watching you people move into caves.

        • Jana

          Denniso,
          Get real. Warren Buffet, Bill Gates and Ted Turner are only interested in their bottom dollar, not in your life or lifestyle, and certainly not whats best for this country.

          • Denniso

            Most people,the wealthy included,are interested in their own financial
            well being,but if the economy goes to hell because we destroy our natural resources and the earth’s ability to sustain humans,money won’t be worth a damn. The wealthy and educated know that and many are fighting to preserve the earth for the sake of human existence.

            What good is all the money in the world if life on earth is like hell on earth?

        • ross

          “ALL the Greens want to do…”. Deniso, innocense is cute, but don’t you want to grow up someday? The vanguard of the Green movement has always had a major Marxist plank in their platform: their anti-enterprise thrust is #1, and the “environment” is down the list somewhere.

          Best example: destroying the western U.S. timber/lumber industry, losing jobs, plants, tax base (bankrupting many school districts)and on-going, sustainable management programs, by fabricating the Spotted Owl issue (never threatened–the population studies proved it then and to this day). After the appropriate time was given to a short attention span, a gullible public was moved on to other “environmental” issues with the full complicity of “journalists”(pardon me while I laugh). 99% of the public has no knowledge of the disasters developing in our national forests due to disease, insects, and generally -0- management.

          But hey–it’s been a victory for Greens! They virtually shut down an industry! So what if the result is a disaster for the “environment” they supposedly love.

          Stop bending over for Green rhetoric just because it sounds nice.

          • eddie47d

            Stop bending over for Republican rhetoric and our oil addiction.

          • Denniso

            ross….I imagine in your little closed universe you don’t know any liberal business people. Greens have a Marxist plank in their platform? You need to get out a little and talk to people and look around. Talking exclusively w/ rednecks and ‘conservatives’ doesn’t give you a well rounded view of Americans.

            I’m innocent? 60 some yrs old and an engineering degree and self employed my entire adult life? Innocent? Hardly…it’s you ‘conservatives’ who are deaf and blind to the real world. You’ve had a fictional world painted for you by your demigods that doesn’t come close to what’s actually out there. Open your eyes….

          • ross

            As seen everywhere here, Ed and Denniso can’t address a topic directly.

            Can you comment on the ongoing disaster of National Forests closed to management?

            Just do SOMETHING besides talk about your degree, etc.

          • Denniso

            National forests are not closed to so called ‘management’, which is only the industry’s code word for logging. Forests are logged all ove the country,just not in the quantity that once existed,when we risked
            losing substantial areas of forest to clear cutting..though clear cutting still goes on. The forests are OURS,not the loggers and the corporations they work for. We decide how much or little to log and how much to set aside for recreation and enjoyment and for it’s own sake,as a living forest.

          • ross

            I get it now, Denniso. You’re a SOCIAL engineer. You are also a DUNCE (go sit in the corner) if you think National Forests are being managed in any manner that can be called stewardship. Your kind of gullibility is what Carl Pope et al just loves.

            You don’t get around enough to know that. If so, name ONE (go to a map now). Be careful. I get around to all of them on a frequent basis.

            Suffice to say–you are the kind of engineer whose nest is feathered by increased layers of meaningless bureaucracy and the attendant nauseating complexity. Most businessmen who share your views enjoy the same “slopping at the public trough”, as it were.

            I have a coupla years on you–I’m 64, have had 20-25 employees and subs my whole life, and have little patience for economic illiteracy, the Class Struggle myths and Utopians who exploit the gullible.

          • Denniso

            ross…so, what do you do? I have never been at the ‘public trough’,being self employed my whole adult life except for 1 yr. I would like to know what your ‘expertise’ is and if you’ve ever had a gov’t contract or job in you life? The majority of gov’t bashers actually have economic ties to some level of gov’t in their lives and they usually scream the loudest.

            If you do know anything about forestry then you would know that there
            is still logging and thinning around the country…just not as much as 30 yrs ago when we sent a majority of our clearcut trees to Japan.

          • ross

            Deniso,

            “…thirty years ago, when we sent the majority of our clearcut trees to Japan…”. Where do you get such B.S.? You get it from “environmentalists” and their water-carriers, sometimes referred to as “the media”.

            Deniso–write this down! Timber from National Forests is non-exportable, AND WAS NOT THIRTY YEARS AGO. You have been lied to.

            RE: “clearcuts”–I’m reasonably sure you have no practical knowledge of “clearcutting”, “thinning” as you call it, shelterwood cutting, select cutting, cutting to acheive a mixed-age stand, cutting for a purely esthetic objective, cutting to forestall or eliminate disease or insect infestations, cutting for firebreaks, cutting for streamzone and wetlands considerations, etc. etc.

            The NORTHWEST DIRECTOR OF THE SIERRA CLUB clear-cut his own family’s 100 acre timberland parcel (there can be millions of board feet of timber on 100 acres in the Northwest). Why? Because it was the optimum silvicultural prescription for the particular mix of species, the health of the stand, the topography, the surrounding forest, and the long-term forestry goals of the parcel. Do I think he was practicing good forestry? Absolutely.

            Do I think he’s a disingenuous, hypocritical, lying SOB? Absolutely.
            He makes his living villifying the industry, and giving people like you the impression that ALL commercial forestry is “clearcuts” and that profit objectives demand clearcuts (nothing is further from the truth). They accompany the misinformation with photos for the gullible, and voila–you get what we have now.

            Fortunately, there are enough large forestland parcels (owners such as Weyerhauser, Sierra Pacific Industries, and Potlatch), and a large aggregate sum of medium size woodlands and small woodlots (1+ acres) that are very productive, so that we still have a respectable lumber output in this country.

            That, however, does not address the fact that our National Forests are turning into a mess. With very little or NO timber management in many National Forests, 2/3 of western U.S. sawmills/planing mills/remanufacturing plants/co-generation plants (bio-mass electricity) have disappeared along with what they contributed to the tax base. 25% of federal stumpage revenues went to local schools; many of those school districts went virtually bankrupt. Many private stands now are so far from a market (manufacturing facility), it is not economically impossible, and the stands deteriorate and become a huge fire hazard.

            I buy timber and timberlands, both public and private, and market logs to lumber companies. I provide the timber harvest, roadbuilding and reconstruction, road closures, stream enhancement, wildlife habitat enhancements,erosion control measurtes, grass seeding, and many other requirements found in a typical timberland management contract. I stopped bidding on public timber 15 years ago when they became little more than landscaping contracts.

            RE: multiple use you mentioned a couple posts back, Denniso, please know that “environmentalists” are and have been antagonistic to the concept of multiple use–they want you OUT OF THERE, PERIOD!!! The public generally does not understand this. Stumpage receipts used to finance multiple use.

          • Denniso

            Ross…w/o environmentalists fighting to slow the logging industry down for the past 100 yrs,you would have no trees left to cut. The gov’t used to be totally in the pocket of the industry until people fought to get gov’t to protect our forests by limiting and controlling
            logging. Do you have a clue that the Giant trees used to live in groves from coast to coast? Where are they? We are left w/ a tiny number of Redwoods and Sequoya in California and if people(environmentalists)had’nt fought to have them protected they would be gone too.

            Environmentalists hike,camp,bike,birdwatch and more in our forests…rednecks shoot,ride ATV’s and snowmobiles and hunt in our forests…sounds like multi use to me.

          • Denniso

            I forgot Ross…you mention ‘slopping at the public trough’,and it appears you have done exactly that. You made money off of gov’t contracts on public forests, trees that didn’t belong to you,but to the public. You paid a pittance for the right to make plenty of money off of public property…my trees. That’s the sort of hypocrisy common among the rightwing shouting about ‘the public trough’.

          • ross

            Denniso, Denniso, Denniso–

            I PAID A PITTANCE for timber belonging to you? LMAO, gullible Druid!!

            Are you SURE you’re a businessman, or are you kidding yourself? Gov’t timber is sold on an AUCTION basis, and the prices are notoriously OVERBID—I’ve paid too much time after time, while bidding against the BIGS like Weyerhauser, Sierra-Pacific, as well as smaller companies. In any case, whether they “dumped it” on me before I could “dump it” on them (everybody’s goal is to “be tough on your competition”), we all made YOU and the rest of the taxpayers UNTOLD MILLIONS OF DOLLARS to keep our companies working.

            Private timber frequently has a better profit margin in it, because one often has a chance to negotiate on it; public timber must be sold on an auction basis, and rightly so, to maximize return to public coffers.

            I paid a pittance? I lost money on plenty of it–get out your wallet and gimme a bailout–can’t ya feel my pain?

            Your willingness to believe cr@p put out by your NatureFaker pied pipers and their lapdog media does not surprise me, actually.

            But I WILL give you credit for getting SOMETHING done–you’ve put my crews out of work on a frequent basis, while the National Forests turn orange from disease and infestation…..and burn. Since that’s your objective, be proud of yourself.

            Congratulations…you never get out there, and you never will–you’ll just keep drinking that Sierra Club Kool-Aid, and sending in your ten bucks a month, along with a million other little old ladies…while we import from other countries like, say, Germany: 50 million board feet of 2X4′s (annually) in some recent years.

            That was yet another thing you didn’t know, isn’t it? And 1X4′s from Scandanavia. And pine boards and logs from Chile and Fiji. Why? You answer it.

            Try to not be so childishly gullible, in swallowing all that anti-enterprise hogwash fed to you in your Environmentalist Catechism.

          • Denniso

            You can look this up…as of 2006,the U.S. led the world in lumber production!

            U.S…..481 million cubic meters of lumber per year.
            India…296 million
            China…284 million
            Brazil..236 million
            Canada..176 million

            So the forests are closed off to logging? That’s a rightwing myth designed to pressure politicians to open up more of MY forests to clear cutting. The national forests are PUBLIC,belonging to me and all citizens. The companies ‘pay’ for the right to log and then sell the trees to a guaranteed market for a good profit. The fee they pay for the contracts is always covered by the sale of the logs.

          • ross

            Denniso,

            You are pathetically shallow in your investigation, and knowledge, of all topics here to date. Are you an adult or a 14-yr. old kid?

            The bulk of U.S. lumber production comes off PRIVATE lands. The National Forests have a pitiful level of “production” presently. It’s a great playground for you, if you like dead and dying forestlands. But, as I said, you never go out there, and you won’t in the future, so you and your fellow travellers will continue down your primrose path, knowing zippo about the greatest temperate forest resource on earth.

            I really question your business acumen. Maybe YOUR engineering rates are guaranteed; the lumber market is a total roller coaster. Any timber contract, public or private, has a time limit for operating it. Performance bonds are at stake, and the timber is to be taken out during a given period of time. That timber is sold into a market that is, as I said, a roller coaster ride, as it is for most commodities. For you to think that a company’s costs are “always” covered by the market is, well, ….sad. You don’t live in the real world. You don’t seem to realize that businesses can lose their @$$ for any number of market-related reasons.

            Guaranteed profits? Can’t wait to see an economic illiterate like yourself give it a try, since it’s “guaranteed” in your mind. Now THAT would be entertainment, watching a Bleeding Heart try something like that.

            You must be confusing forest products with your marijuana crop, in terms of profitibility.

            It’s quite obvious to me by now that you’re one of those that the National Federation of Public Employees (or whatever they call themselves nowdays)is honked off at: you’re one of those contractors that’s virtually the same as a gov’t employee, but for a couple legal wrinkles that saves Uncle some of the ridiculous benefits package.

            Wow, what a risk-taker you are. My hat’s off to you.

          • Denniso

            Ross says that the ‘bulk of timber production is on private lands’…what is the bulk? What is the percentage of private vs public land production?

            If logging is such a risky biz then why are the giant lumber companies so big and rich?

  • Da Norseman

    Once the progressive liberal Dems are voted out. Once the RINOs are voted out. Obummer will have an uphill battle on his hands and the commie greens will be dealt a big blow!!!

  • jerry b b

    I have sat here and read a lot of these coments from alot of what i call some of the dumbest dumbasses that i can recall. These people can’t under stand what it takes to run a country running over with people. What it takes to feed a large population like we have on earth.There is no alternative to oil for fuel to operate the agri equipment needed to raise the food needed to feed the large population we have. There is no alternative to raise enough to feed these masses. Do you not know what will happen if the people get hungry. When this happens you will see wide spread robery murder riots and God forbid canibalism. If you think i am crazy just start researching some of the past. Check what happened when alarge bunch of people are put in jeoperady for extended perods of time. Ship recked and air craft crashes also check out the story about the people that were migrating westward in america and was snowed in for the winter in what is called the donner pass in the northen rockies. It doesn’t have to be hunger for some people to resort to canibalism doesn’t any remember the homo dalmer he was killing his vistims and had some of their body parts in his freezerthere was also a man in the far east thay caught eating people several years ago. I don’t think every one would resort to this but ithink the vast majority would do what they had too to surive. Civilization is just a thin venier too alot of the people and hunger would make it thiner.I don’t recall who wrote what i read about 50 years ago on this subject but he was predicting this happening by 2050. Any one with one eye and any sense should be able to see that the population that we have here on the planet can not be fed whith out the macinery to do it. Eventualy some maybe most will have to go. I think that problem may solved for us.I can rember when these smart asses said that the planet was between 1 million and 1&1/2 million years old now it is up too maybe 6 million years old.Maybe a lot or maybe most people don’t belive in seers but i do and they have been predicting the end for over 4 thousand years and two of the latest was Edgar Casey and Jean Dixon. You can do a google research on them. Casey said this planet has been up and down several times. Now there is a new man on the block and no one can see any thing beyond 2020 Get your house in order and be careful be good and enjoy your life with other people.

    • Denniso

      Your pronouncement that we can’t do w/o oil to some degree is as wrong as your statement of the earth’s age and your belief in Casey and Dixon. The earth is more like 4 billion yrs old and Casey and Dixon are proven frauds…

  • everett

    If we go green we will soon be the color of the oil the greens so detest. The world is floating on oil! but the greens have their heads in the tar pit

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