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Government Motors: President Obama’s Hollow Victory

December 1, 2010 by  

Government Motors: President Obama’s Hollow Victory

A shiny new initial public offering (IPO) hit the market last month for a rusted old automaker. On Nov. 18, General Motors re-emerged on the New York Stock Exchange after surviving bankruptcy. The carmaker’s IPO, priced at $33 per share, was one of the biggest ever and came about sooner than expected for the once busted company.

On the very first day of trading, General Motors stock (NYSE, GM) rose 3.6 percent on heavy volume. At this writing, it is trading around $33 per share. Before you melt down grandma’s silver tea set for shares of GM, keep in mind that the company still has much to overcome.

In an effort to boost growth, GM just unveiled a new brand in China, targeting Asian buyers. Whatever GM is working on becoming, it will be a far cry from what it once was: The crown jewel of American industry. While GM is no longer the biggest automaker in the world, it is the largest overseas automaker in China.

“So what’s the difference?” Democrats ask as they race to proclaim the GM bailout a stroke of genius by President Barack Obama. This is what The Hill proclaimed under the headline, President Obama’s Capitalist Triumph on Autos:

“Let’s see if those Adam Smith wannabes on the Republican right, and Roger Ailes of Fox who again called President Obama a socialist, will give the president a standing ovation for his capitalist triumph in saving the American auto industry.” [Emphasis added]

Really? Yes indeed, writes The Hill:

“General Motors is now profitable. The auto business is coming back big time. The major Wall Street firms, private equity funds, mutual funds and hedge funds have been breathlessly trying to get their hands on the new GM stock. Remember when they called it ‘Government Motors’? Now they can call it Profitable Motors. Now they can call it the capitalist stock they all crave. Now they can praise the President for a job well done.”

Before you start applauding Obama, you may want to consider the fact that General Motors isn’t out of the woods yet; not even after the Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP), which provided the nation’s largest car company with $50 billion in taxpayer money following its June 2009 bankruptcy.

General Motor’s IPO has reduced the government’s stake in the company from 61 percent to 36 percent. But the United States is still a huge shareholder, and for the Federal government to break even on its investment it will have to sell its remaining stake for about $50 per share. That is almost 50 percent higher than where the stock is trading now.

The Democrats don’t seem to think this will be a problem. In fact, Obama was quick to claim outright victory with the GM bailout, which he claims has saved more than 1 million jobs across all 50 states.

“We are finally beginning to see some of these tough decisions that we made in the midst of the crisis pay off,” Obama said.

It seems a bit early to proclaim victory by the President or anyone else. That is because we are not seeing anything close to a typical economic recovery for the auto industry.

Not Your Father’s Oldsmobile
The Daily Mail points out the facts: “At the bottom of the recession in June 2009, U.S. car sales had fallen a record-breaking 39 percent from their pre-recession rate of 16 million units a year in late 2007 to 9.7 million units. Based on analysis of previous recessions, by June this year car sales should have recovered 71 percent from 2009′s low. Instead sales have recovered a meager 14 percent.”

Detroit once dominated the car industry. Today the Big Three are in various states of disrepair while Toyota is the world’s largest car manufacturer.

According to Jess Toprak, an analyst at True Car Inc., GM’s future depends on the company moving 80 percent of its production outside the United States, principally in South America and China. That does not bode well for creating American jobs. The Democrats also seem to be ignoring the fact that Detroit automakers have been in a state of decline since the 1970s and that Washington has intervened for them, beginning with the Chrysler Corporation Loan Guarantee Act of 1979.

Furthermore, the United Auto Workers (UAW) union lost another 76,000 members last year, bringing its total membership to 355,000. This puts membership at levels not seen since the late 1930s, just after the fledgling organization had won recognition at General Motors. As the chart below shows, the UAW is an organization that is just a fraction of the size it was 30 years ago.

To believe that Obama has rescued GM is to ignore history and the inconvenient truth that U.S. automakers have been in a state of decline for decades.

In the Feb. 3, 1992 issue of Myers’ Finance & Energy I wrote: “Detroit’s Big Three auto chairmen have sallied over to Japan to hide behind the skirt of President (George H.W.) Bush as he begged for leniency from Japanese auto manufacturers. Further humiliation came when Japan gave trade concessions to placate the U.S. entourage. As one Japanese auto executive said, ‘our feelings are of sympathy for America’s plight.’”

I continued by saying Detroit was broken down and rusted out; that in the 1950s America manufacturers built three out of every four cars made world-wide and sold nine out of every 10 cars in the United States.

Given the Big Three’s long decline, The Hill must think as Henry Ford did, “History is more or less bunk.”* That might explain why that publication has waxed praise about the TARP bailout.

Built Like A Wok
The Democrats want to claim victory on TARP now that the Presidential election is less than two years away. As Charlie Wilson, President Dwight D. Eisenhower’s nominee for Secretary of Defense and the former CEO of GM pointed out: “What was good for our country was good for General Motors and vice versa. The difference did not exist. Our company is too big. It goes with the welfare of the country.”

So the Left is bragging that Obama saved the auto industry. But the truth is, only a few GM plants have reopened in the U.S. And while GM still earns most of its money in North America, the company’s focus for the future is overseas. For example, GM already sells more autos in China than it does in North America. And the company recently announced that it will start exporting Chinese-made Chevrolets to Latin America and the Middle East. Don’t be surprised when the people in the Midwest buy Chevy trucks made in Shanghai.

The fact is, TARP is not creating American jobs. Oh yes, Obama has helped the new GM; the one that will employ tens of thousands of low-cost Asian workers. The original GM, along with the rest of Detroit, is going to be as obsolete as the Edsel.

According to The Wall Street Journal, GM has been abandoning several North American plants and is continuing the massive downsizing that began last year. And UPI recently reported GM is holding fire sales on its U.S. assets.

“Auctioneers are selling lots of hammers, wrenches and 22-ton metal-cutting machines.” The buyers of these tools are foreign companies; corporations that will use these tools to build automobiles on foreign soil and sell them back to Americans; many who trusted in Obama’s vision.

Yours for real wealth and good health,

John Myers
Myers’ Energy and Gold Report

 

* The famous quote by Henry Ford was just part of what he said to the Chicago Tribune in May 1916. “History is more or less bunk. It’s tradition. We don’t want tradition. We want to live in the present, and the only history that is worth a tinker’s damn is the history that we make today.”

John Myers

is editor of Myers’ Energy and Gold Report. The son of C.V. Myers, the original publisher of Oilweek Magazine, John has worked with two of the world’s largest investment publishers, Phillips and Agora. He was the original editor for Outstanding Investments and has more than 20 years experience as an investment writer. John is a graduate of the University of Calgary. He has worked for Prudential Securities in Spokane, Wash., as a registered investment advisor. His office location in Calgary, Alberta, is just minutes away from the headquarters of some of the biggest players in today’s energy markets. This gives him personal access to everyone from oil CEOs to roughnecks, where he learns secrets from oil insiders he passes on to his subscribers. Plus, during his years in Spokane he cultivated a network of relationships with mining insiders in Idaho, Oregon and Washington.

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  • MJ Montana

    I am surprised that the Leftist manifesto, The Hill, is not claiming Prez-Obama invented the wheel. I have never seen so many, make so much , about a man who has done little. Did I say litte? I meant nothing.

    • Doc Sarvis

      He got combat troops out of Iraq ahead of schedule. That alone is huge. Too bad they were there in the first place and that so much was wasted there.

      • Dad

        … and put them in Afganistan as he ramped up that war.

        • http://eddie47d@gmail.com eddie47d

          Dad and Caliber; Since there is still so much contention on these two wars then start demanding that we pull out completely.Don’t blame Obama for Bush’s wars of choice; that is a bogus argument.Obama extending the deadline does not please me for all Afghan officials are corrupt.They don’t deserve our sacrifices and if they can’t become honorable and trustworthy leaders then we need to pull out,now.

          • kommanderkaput

            Let’s get one HUGE item clear for the record. “President Bush’s War” was what the ENTIRE UNITED NATIONS WAS CALLING FOR. After Iraq ran roughshod over 13 UN resolutions in a row and the UN INTELLIGENCE and the US INTELLIGENCE at the time, indicated dangerous weapons build up in Iraq. The backing for the war was UNANIMOUS in Congress And the UN !!!
            You can not change the facts of history. You try, but the TRUTH of what happened, has a nasty little way of coming to the surface.

          • Wanda Murline

            In order for the tax payer to recover their money in GM, the stock are going to have to be sold at $50, while others can profit with the sale at $36.00…is that fair, since the tax payer was the one that paid for GM’s recovery. Wonder how much the unions like the fact that China will get the factories. Well, when you put your future earnings into a president who is ineligible to be president and your CEO’s of the unions (who stuff their own pockets with your money) what do you expect? Now, you are losing your unemployment benefits because the rest of us can no longer afford to pay for them…America is Broke. This is the first of the problems to come…we are all going to suffer before it gets better, but the people at the top like Soros, Pelosi, Reid, Shumer, Frank (who started the whole mess), Ayers, Andy Stern former SEIU, and others at the top sit there, smile, and drink their beers. I forsee that there is going to be a revolution if things don’t change, and it is not going to be peaceful marches in Washington…it is going to resemble 1776 because there is a lot of anger out there, and the people above should not be too cocky because they will be the targets for people’s anger and hostility. We are in scarry times and they are about to get even scarrier.

          • VeraV

            Blame Bush, blame Obama…why bother? Each man has done his best. It’s just that Obama’s best is simply not up to snuff, meaning relatively useless, meaning socialist/communist/Marxist stamped.

            My guess is BO will go down in history as a slick, union-backed carnival barker (sorry carnies), a smug & flashy grinning clown, a person with no bona fides anywhere, afraid his past will catch up with him & reveal him to be the Great Teleprompter Reader of all time.
            Pathetic.

          • Dogma-Free

            Jesus Christ, Eddie…twice in a row now, you have come on here and made sensible comments, as opposed to the usual far-right propaganda that normally gets spewed here by the peanut gallery…or tea-baggers…or knuckle-draggers, or whatever they’re calling themselves these days.

            Jeez, Eddie…if you keep this up, they might have to call in the big guns…like Rove, Goebbels, Limbaugh, or – god forbid – Coultergeist…to really spew some warmongering, fearmongering, far-right-nutjob sort of stuff that Ol’Dubya and his old family pal, Osama Bin Laden, would be thoroughly proud of. And entertaining as that may be, it’s certainly not what would be good for America, and/or the rest of the world…just as Hitler’s clan also wasn’t good for Germany, ultimately…or for the rest of the world.

          • Denniso

            Kommander…U.N. inspectors were in Iraq before the invasion w/ Saddams permission looking for nukes…they found none and told us and the world that. Bush/Cheny kept saying that they were hidden,which we found to be another lie.

            Admit the truth…Cheny especially,w/ Bush and others like Richard Pearl and Bill Crystal,wanted to topple Saddam. Simple… Cheny egged Bush on w/ tough cowboy talk and played w/ his ego to get him to go to war. The biggest foreign policy in our history probably,and it’s not over. Rightwingers should quit looking for ludricous rationals for the most stupid and criminal and immoral thing Bush did. A war of choice w/ thousands of our kids dead and crippled and hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians dead and maimed.

            Disgusting and shameful for America…we won’t live it down for decades.

          • Meteorlady

            Denniso – If you study the history – you will find that the UN advisors or inspectors were not allowed into certain places and regions.

          • Denniso

            I don’t have to study the history,I lived it as most of us did. I paid close attention at the time. The main inspector David Kay,for one,told us and the world at the time that there were no WMD. You should give up on that question since people who paid attention and weren’t blinded by party politics fully know the truth.

        • MacvTm19

          Hey there Doc Sarvis where have you been the moon, there are still at least 50,000 American soldiers in Iraq !!!!!Stop drinking that liberal/marxist kool-ade ..

          • denniso

            We had 140,000 soldiers there before Obama pulled most out. If he pulled all of them out and all hell breaks loose,you would then blame him for that. You guys will blame Obama for anything at all that doesn’t go perfectly,even things inherited from the worst and dumbest president ever…Shrub/Cheny.

          • JC

            Please….let him pull all of the soldiers out, and leave the rifles behind. They can finish the job themselves.
            Now that would be a “change”. ;)

      • Average Joe

        Doc Sarvis,
        Yes he did, didn’t he?….We still have troops in Iraq(in harms way)and those who left Iraq are now deployed in Afghanistan(move’em around and call it a withdrawl).
        BTW, Obama was only following the ‘Mandate” spelled out by the previous administration concerning withdawl from Iraq. Typical liberal spin on things as usual Doc….tell the parts that make your party look good while at the same time dismiising the rest of the story….do you work for the MSM, or have they just trained your thinking? I only ask because you sound just like them…”here’s the story”…(at least what we want you to hear and nothing more).Get a grip Doc…..try looking a little deeper than 2 inches below the surface….the crap in DC runs much deeper than that.
        BTW, I don’t support either party….I support integrity and honesty…and I don’t see much of that anywhere in DC (either party).

        • MARY

          AMEM TO THAT?

        • denniso

          Integrity and honesty are concepts,so they can be perfect. Politicians are human,some good,some bad, but never perfect like a concept is. Concepts and words don’t govern and try to navigate a very complex world and country,like politicians and people have to.

          Despite the flaws and foibles of real people,there are some fundamental differences between the parties and those differences affect how we,real people, live and work and die.

          • Average Joe

            Integrity and honesty are not concepts…they are personal choices. You can choose to be honest or dishonest just as you can choose what your personal integrity is or is not (either you are a person of your word…or you are not). Those are choices…not concepts.

          • Denniso

            A concept is not a thing or object or action,it defines those things. People all have to make choices based upon the flawed human condition and some are more honest than others…it isn’t black or white as most ‘moralists’ want to believe. It’s what makes human existence more complex than a simple concept or ideal,like integrity or honesty. There are definitely shades of these concepts. The classic example is, would you lie to the nazis about hiding a Jew in your home…of course it would be a lie and dishonest technically to say you weren’t hiding a Jew in order to save her life,but it would be the higher moral action. Ideals and concepts are often open to interpretation and the circumstances.

        • meteorlady

          Denniso if you truly believe that you are not very bright. Politicians, as we know them today, are scammers and liars bought and sold by the corporations and Wall Street. Sure there are some good ones that have the best interests of this country at heart, but those in the forefront like Reid, Pelosi, and the rest are scum and are manipulated by others through money and power offerings.

          • denniso

            The rightwing obstructs all campaign finance reform and does all they can to open up the system to even more money,then they brand all or most politicians scammers and crooks when they have to bend over for the money needed to win a political race….clever manipulation of reality,but stupid.

          • Meteorlady

            I believe that the Republicans are also bought and sold so what’s your point? There are still only a few that truly have the interests of this country at heart.

          • Denniso

            You don’t see my point? If it didn’t take many millions of $$ to run for and hold office then most politicians wouldn’t have to cowtow to their big donors who want certain things done in return for their large donations. So the rightwing blocks all efforts at cutting down the amount of money going into the political system and then bitches when most politicians have to act like prostitutes to get the money.

            It’s really not rocket science,and the recent supreme court decision has already increased the huge amount of money flowing in and will make it more difficult for the politicians who want to be honest and not be bought off.

      • 45caliber

        Was that the original schedule or the one that was made after he decided to take them out?

      • Chow

        You’re the stupidest sob in the world…what do you mean got us out of Iraq? My son is still in Iraq along with thousands of other US soldiers. I don’t believe a thing you commies say or promises. I’m only hoping we have an armed revolt in this country and throw you all out 6 feet under.

        • Donald

          No love of one’s fellow man in these remarks!

          • old white guy

            it is getting more difficult to love stupid.

        • Doc Sarvis

          A “Stupid Sob” might have missed reading my qualification that “combat troops” are removed from Iraq. That was the goal and that is what President Obama and the military did ahead of schedule. I did not say all U.S. soldiers were out of Iraq and that is not the goal he set forth. Please read more carefully and react more intellegently.

          • truesoy

            Intelligence? is that what you are asking from these extreme ‘conservatives’? You gotta be kidding me!!!

          • JC

            Curious…are Americans who advocate Constitutional Standards to be considered extreme? Or are you just doing what LibComs do so well in “labeling” everything anti-communist as extreme?
            If you want to see what extreme and brutal look like…go find a mirror my socialist friend. :)

          • denniso

            ‘Constitutional standards’?? Like what? And forget the health insurance mandates,many agree that it is debateable.
            I have to wonder if you’ve paid attention to the flow of modern history and have noticed that there isn’t much communism left in the world,certainly not here.

          • JC

            Denniso, you are a total success story for public education. Either you have no clue what communism is or you are totally blind and indoctrinated. there is nothing BUT communism left in this country and if not for the fact that we are so well armed we’d be dressed in potato sacks by now waiting for our ration of gruel.
            My God, but you are stupid and that is what makes YOU the real enemy.
            Please…keep waving your little hopey changey button because we are going to be looking for you people at some point.

          • Denniso

            ‘Nothing but communism left in this country’?? I polititely suggest that you look up the definition…then ask all the top income people
            if they think they are living under communism…then ask the upper middle income people living in nice homes and driving $30,000 and above shiny SUV’s…then to finish off your research,ask the millions of low income workers if they think they are getting anything close to an equal share of the wealth,as might happen under real communism.

          • JC

            Denniso, I don’t have the time or patience to argue with children, so I’ll leave you with this. Hope your head doesn’t explode.

            Read the 10 Planks of The Communist Manifesto to discover the truth and learn how to know your enemy…

            Karl Marx describes in his communist manifesto, the ten steps necessary to destroy a free enterprise system and replace it with a system of omnipotent government power, so as to effect a communist socialist state. Those ten steps are known as the Ten Planks of The Communist Manifesto… The following brief presents the original ten planks within the Communist Manifesto written by Karl Marx in 1848, along with the American adopted counterpart for each of the planks. From comparison it’s clear MOST Americans have by myths, fraud and deception under the color of law by their own politicians in both the Republican and Democratic and parties, been transformed into Communists.

            Another thing to remember, Karl Marx in creating the Communist Manifesto designed these planks AS A TEST to determine whether a society has become communist or not. If they are all in effect and in force, then the people ARE practicing communists.

            Communism, by any other name is still communism, and is VERY VERY destructive to the individual and to the society!!

            The 10 PLANKS stated in the Communist Manifesto and some of their American counterparts are…

            1. Abolition of private property and the application of all rents of land to public purposes.
            Americans do these with actions such as the 14th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution (1868), and various zoning, school & property taxes. Also the Bureau of Land Management (Zoning laws are the first step to government property ownership)

            2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
            Americans know this as misapplication of the 16th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, 1913, The Social Security Act of 1936.; Joint House Resolution 192 of 1933; and various State “income” taxes. We call it “paying your fair share”.

            3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.
            Americans call it Federal & State estate Tax (1916); or reformed Probate Laws, and limited inheritance via arbitrary inheritance tax statutes.

            4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
            Americans call it government seizures, tax liens, Public “law” 99-570 (1986); Executive order 11490, sections 1205, 2002 which gives private land to the Department of Urban Development; the imprisonment of “terrorists” and those who speak out or write against the “government” (1997 Crime/Terrorist Bill); or the IRS confiscation of property without due process. Asset forfeiture laws are used by DEA, IRS, ATF etc…).

            5. Centralization of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.
            Americans call it the Federal Reserve which is a privately-owned credit/debt system allowed by the Federal Reserve act of 1913. All local banks are members of the Fed system, and are regulated by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) another privately-owned corporation. The Federal Reserve Banks issue Fiat Paper Money and practice economically destructive fractional reserve banking.

            6. Centralization of the means of communications and transportation in the hands of the State.
            Americans call it the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) and Department of Transportation (DOT) mandated through the ICC act of 1887, the Commissions Act of 1934, The Interstate Commerce Commission established in 1938, The Federal Aviation Administration, Federal Communications Commission, and Executive orders 11490, 10999, as well as State mandated driver’s licenses and Department of Transportation regulations.

            7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the state, the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.
            Americans call it corporate capacity, The Desert Entry Act and The Department of Agriculture… Thus read “controlled or subsidized” rather than “owned”… This is easily seen in these as well as the Department of Commerce and Labor, Department of Interior, the Environmental Protection Agency, Bureau of Land Management, Bureau of Reclamation, Bureau of Mines, National Park Service, and the IRS control of business through corporate regulations.

            8. Equal liability of all to labor. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
            Americans call it Minimum Wage and slave labor like dealing with our Most Favored Nation trade partner; i.e. Communist China. We see it in practice via the Social Security Administration and The Department of Labor. The National debt and inflation caused by the communal bank has caused the need for a two “income” family. Woman in the workplace since the 1920′s, the 19th amendment of the U.S. Constitution, the Civil Rights Act of 1964, assorted Socialist Unions, affirmative action, the Federal Public Works Program and of course Executive order 11000.

            9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries, gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country, by a more equitable distribution of population over the country.
            Americans call it the Planning Reorganization act of 1949 , zoning (Title 17 1910-1990) and Super Corporate Farms, as well as Executive orders 11647, 11731 (ten regions) and Public “law” 89-136. These provide for forced relocations and forced sterilization programs, like in China.

            10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children’s factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production.
            Americans are being taxed to support what we call ‘public’ schools, but are actually “government force-tax-funded schools ” Even private schools are government regulated. The purpose is to train the young to work for the communal debt system. We also call it the Department of Education, the NEA and Outcome Based “Education” . These are used so that all children can be indoctrinated and inculcated with the government propaganda, like “majority rules”, and “pay your fair share”. WHERE are the words “fair share” in the Constitution, Bill of Rights or the Internal Revenue Code (Title 26)?? NO WHERE is “fair share” even suggested !! The philosophical concept of “fair share” comes from the Communist maxim, “From each according to their ability, to each according to their need! This concept is pure socialism. … America was made the greatest society by its private initiative WORK ETHIC … Teaching ourselves and others how to “fish” to be self sufficient and produce plenty of EXTRA commodities to if so desired could be shared with others who might be “needy”… Americans have always voluntarily been the MOST generous and charitable society on the planet.

            Do changing words, change the end result? … By using different words, is it all of a sudden OK to ignore or violate the provisions or intent of the Constitution of the united States of America?????

            The people (politicians) who believe in the SOCIALISTIC and COMMUNISTIC concepts, especially those who pass more and more laws implementing these slavery ideas, are traitors to their oath of office and to the Constitution of the united States of America… KNOW YOUR ENEMY …Remove the enemy from within and from among us.

          • meteorlady

            The name was changed from Combat Troops to Advisers, same thing. My cousin is still fighting even though he’s there in an advisory capacity.

          • denniso

            J C…You don’t have time to argue,but you sure wasted time w/ that logwinded post. I’ve read Marx and Engles,so don’t waste your time trying to ‘educate’ me.

            If you think that free public education and ending child factory labor are the road to communism,then you are truly hopeless and off the edge of reality. Adios…

        • maxthecat

          ALL YOU RICH FOLKS CAN DRIVE WHAT YOU WANT BUT CAN YOUR CAR COMPANY BUILD A SUB 9 SECOND 150 MPH 1/4 MILE CAMARO? EVEN LEXUS CAN’T BUILD A BETTER CAR THAN THE NEW CHEV MALIBU! I,M NOT A GM FANATIC, BUT I HAVE RACED AND OWNED 200 CARS IN MY LIFE AND CAN ASSERT THAT ALL (ALMOST) HAVE GOOD AND BAD POINTS. FORD IS MY CURRENT FAVORITE AND I HAVE A MALIBU ALSO. THIS WHOLE POLITICAL THING IS TOO CRAZY TO WORRY ABOUT,JUST WORRY ABOUT GETTING TO HEAVEN,YOU WILL BE THERE FOREVER,HERE ONLY A SHORT TIME. THAT’S HOW I ROLL!!

          • Meteorlady

            So explain to me please why I would even need a sub 9 second car?

        • maxthecat

          CHOW, GO BACK WHERE YOU CAME FROM IF YOU DON’T LIKE IT HERE ! THIS IS STILL THE GREATEST NATION IN THE WORLD AND WE ARE GOING TO GET IT BACK SOME DAY SOON.

          • michelleo

            YOU MEAN FROM THAT COMMOE PIG OBAMA RIGHT?

        • michelleo

          A BIG AMEN TO THAT CHOW MY SENTIMENTS EXACTLY :)

        • MARY

          AMEN TO THAT ALSO….MAY GOD BLESS US ALL AND FORGIVE US FOR ALL THE HARM WE ARE DOING TO THIS GREAT LAND….

          • OPHELIA

            AMEN TO THAT!!!

        • JC

          Anti war does not mean “communist” Chow.
          Read the Constitution, we’re not supposed to be involved in interventionist wars. That’s Imperialism.

      • GWL

        If you were in the States safe and sound and not there in the heat and sand getting your butt shot at – then shut up!

        • http://www.youaarestupidif.com Nate

          Don’t you just love the arm-chair warriors who think they know something.
          VFW Korea, China

      • Allison

        The troops were renamed but most of them are still there rebuilding Iraq with our money! The rest went to Afghanistan. Obama deserves something but not a prize!

        • Carole Howell

          Allison,

          Here is what a Brit has to say and what some people said back to her. What are your thought?…….will we remain doomed to fight amongst ourselves, or will we ever stand together as a nation and fight to correct what went wrong?

          #
          As an ex-pat Brit living and working (sometimes!) in the US for the last 15 years it’s been a real eye-opener to see how deprived the average American citizen is compared with his European, Australian, or Canadian counterpart.

          And how easily hoodwinked the average American voter appears to be. The absolute bull**** spread by people like Sarah Palin about death camps associated with socialized medicine was swallowed whole without question by huge swathes of the American public.

          Very few Americans I’ve spoken to seem to believe the evidence before them – that the US is the ONLY western democracy that doesn’t take care of its citizens the way it should. The way all other democracies do. When I tell them of my personal experience under the NHS (socialized medicine system in the UK) and during unemployment, I get the impression they think I’m lying, or exaggerating for effect.

          There is this weird – and widespread – belief that no-one has ever tried socialized medicine before and it would be a dangerous experiment to attempt to install it here. I have done my best to dispel this myth, but to no avail.

          This is despite the fact that I worked for the NHS for 17 years and then worked for 5 years for a university research unit that explored health services, and grew up under the NHS – 42 years of not having to worry about my healthcare, ever. I have *lived* what they seem to regard with huge suspicion as a totally untried and untested system.

          Many don’t even understand that the minimal medical care system that exists today – Medicare – is in fact a government program, and they scream (literally) about fighting attempts by government to interfere with Medicare, as if it was some corporate entity.

          The only thing I can come up with as an answer to the question “Why do Americans put up with this sh*t?” is this: this is the land of pyramid schemes, of multi-level marketing, of the idea that everyone can become a millionaire. The vast majority of citizens seem incapable of reasoning it out – that they’re living in a giant pyramid scheme that comprises government of the people, by the corporations, for the corporations. It may be genetic, it may be something in the water, it may even be the educational system.

          Either way, it doesn’t take a genius to see that there are dark days ahead, and something unpleasant is going to happen in the next few years. Quite what form that will take, I can’t yet see. But civil war seems a likely prospect, as does the massive unrest that is likely to precede it.

          The US has appeared to me, since the time I came here in 1995, to be a country constantly on the verge of total anarchy. I think that while that situation continues, those with their hands on the reins will continue to profit at the expense of 98% of their fellow countrymen – until the people finally wake up.

          At which point I fear it will be too late to reverse the descent and the country will fall apart. It’s possible that at that point the extremists in many groups will come to the fore, particularly religious bigots, and then the new America may well become the most dangerous country on Earth…
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          samd11 [Moderator] 10 hours ago in reply to Ancient Brit
          Very well put, Ancient Brit! When Americans stop dreaming about that ever elusive wealthy future and start concentrating on what is possible here and now they may have a chance to remedy some of their problems. Unfortunately, the nightmare has overtaken the dream and I fear it is to late to wake up and start anew. The pyramid is about to collapse.
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          colinmeister [Moderator] 9 hours ago in reply to Ancient Brit
          I am in a similar situation to yours, Ancient Brit. I have now been living in the US for almost 23 years. The reason Americans don’t believe that Europe has better health care and unemployment benefits is the extreme nationalism which is drilled into them during their formative years.

          American children are told over and over again that the USA is the best country in the world, and of course they believe it. In some cases they are told this as a result of the experiences of their parents, grandparents and other forbears, who moved to America to escape poverty or persecution in the countries they originated from. For many it is just a case of shouting USA USA USA as loudly as possible without thought. Americans are also inclined to believe myths like the USA won the second world war single handedly and that the Europeans owe them big time for this – forever.

          There again, why should I worry if Americans are happy in their ignorance?
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          maryinga [Moderator] 4 hours ago in reply to colinmeister
          One reason to worry might be that right now the IMF and other such American dominated pushers of free market ideology are getting ready to begin their assault on the social benefits enjoyed by European workers.

          Ireland is a good place to pay attention: My Irish friend said that even a couple of years ago “Ireland was judged the best place in Europe to grow old”….everything was free once you reached retirement age.

          That is being taken apart as I write………and the wicked International Monetary Fund will be coming for worker benefits……..that’s where they clean up……..just as soon as any of the European economies find themselves in trouble.

          And many of them are in trouble…….having followed the american Free enterprise financial model to a larger extent then their populations may realize. Lower taxes yes…..and borrow to continue placating the people AND engaging in profitable (to your major financial contributers) Foreign wars and international meddling.

          America is a huge object lesson for all of us in the developed world. To what extent have our governments danced to Washington’s tune? To what extent are they still doing it? To what extent are we, the citizens of these “better places to live” still ignorant of it?

          Trust me Colinmeister…….we should all worry about what is happening right now in America
          In solidarity.
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          gjgatos [Moderator] 6 hours ago in reply to Ancient Brit
          Excellent post! Thank you. We’ve always bragged so much about our “superiority” while turning blind eyes to our degradations, failures and refusals to pitch out the trash we accumulate in our thinking (or rather, nonthinking) habits. Our least worthy ideas have greatly submerged our finest efforts at democracy, but there is a faction of us that is still fighting as hard as we can to hang onto what is left of that democracy, and we won’t stop until we’ve either won that battle or died trying to.

          • Patrick

            I can still see that the arrogance of the Brits have not changed, they must teach that in early child development in GB. Without the Americans in Europe in WWII, You would have been speaking German….

          • JC

            as far as Socialized Medicine in Canada goes, it can hardly qualify as a shining success.
            people in the Province of Alberta have been phoning 911 form “inside” the Emergency Rooms of the Hospitals in order to try and get some help. Another American I know who had traveled in the USSR said it was reminiscent of that system what with the “hallway medicine” being practiced there.
            Also in Alberta they seem to have adopted the Chinese method of firing the Bureacrat responsible for Provincial Healthcare in order to look as though they are working on the problem.

            To summarize, I know from personal experience that the Doctors and Nurses are doing the best they can (they are wonderful people) but they are saddled with socialist bureacracy…and that never works as history will show.

          • Meteorlady

            Pretty arrogant and condescending from someone who lives in a country, basically as broke as the US or more so, that still pays billions for a monarchy that is just for show.

            Seems your comments are just that crap from someone that doesn’t begin to understand the true meaning of freedom and the United States Constitution.

          • Average Joe

            Dear Carol, If you are a Brit…then please stick to fixing your own country and stop worrying about OUR country. You have nothing at stake since you are not a citizen of this nation.Quite frankly, we don’t care how you do things back home in merry old England. In other words (in plain American English)…Mind your own business…and we will mind ours.

      • http://bobmann101.vpweb.com/ Robert Hamilton

        If Obama brought the troops home early, please tell me Doc. why are my friend’s sons and daughter still over there???? HUH? Doc. Do not believe waht people tell you. Seek the truth, question boldy. Defend yourself with facts.

        • Meteorlady

          If he does respond it will be condescending and arrogant so why bother to ask?

        • libertytrain

          Unfortunately, some folks just listen to what he says and have no grasp of the reality of the situation over there. Our troops are there and with “new” names -

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Whatever Doc. Lets cut and run and make it all fall apart so we can point the finger at Bush for awhile longer. That has been the lefts goal since day one, to sabotage this war effort and point the finger at Bush. They were on a good course when Obummer took over, and he immediately turned the wrong way, didnt confide with his generals for 6 weeks at a time, and has it all messed up now. However, being the democrats own the liberal networks, were not getting all the doom and gloom reporting that they did when the Bush admin was in charge. Im telling you now, they have gone 10 steps backwards in Iraq, and they are purposely doing all they can to make Iraq fall and trump it all up in the press to the dumb and uneducated youth and left, that its all Bush’s fault yet again. You know and I know it Doc. Thats how these losers roll. And that is why over 60 of them got voted out of office, and they exposed themselves as to who they really are. And in 2012, Obama and the rest of them are going. Good riddance to the anti American left Doc, whose sole purpose is to do damning things to America, to make themselves appealing. Isnt that just peachy Doc, and your to damn dumb to see it. Amazing.

    • truesoy

      More of the same negative reaction from the ‘bitter’ conservative right!. He, and you, should accept the fact that much have been accomplished during the Obama administration which is a lot more that can be say of the Bush administration unless you count as an accomplishment the almost destruction of the U.S.

      • confused

        Yes, I agree that Obama has done alot.

        Obama has put us so far in debt. that we are leaving a terrible burden on our children and their children.

        • truesoy

          Confused, are you? apparently so. Did you forget the billions $ in bailout Bush gave the Banks? Don’t you think this adds to our debt?, and the cost of the wars, (one unnecessary and based on lies that only a diehard blind conservative could believe,) and the cost to maintained the war kept in a separate budget to hide the actual deficit amount in an attepmt to deceive us. Doesn’t this add to our deficit?. How about the Bush administration borrowing money from the chinese to conduct the war, the first time since the american revolutionary war that money was borrow from a foreign power to finance a war? Besides the embarrassment to the United States, don’t you think this adds to our debt?. See, it is one thing to pretend things are not the way they are, but, it is another to pretend that everyone should also be oblivious to reality. Hopefully one day you and those like you will come out from the political ‘comma’ you find yourself in and start doing right for our country. Think and make decisions not based on what I said, but most important is for you to question why the sometime diatribe emanating from some radio host? what’s in it for him/her? could he/she be lying to you (the audience) and wy not? and fact check everything you hear from them. If you hear it from a conservative right wing host, do not go to the ‘heritage foundation’ for fact check ’cause it would probably eceive you too. And the same goes if the source of information comes from a ‘libera source’, don’t go to the nation to verify. Go to independent unbiased sources to double check the accuracy of the information at hand. And foremost, use your head. But keep a clear and unbiased mind.

          • http://www.youaarestupidif.com Nate

            Never has one said so much that meant nothing.

          • MARY

            9-11 WAS NOT A LIE>>>>THANK YOU GOD FOR LETING ME HAVE LOVE IN MY HEART AND HOPE FOR A BETTER AMERICAN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

        • http://www.youaarestupidif.com Nate

          A father asked his son if he was upset that our generation is going to leave so much debt to his generation. The son said: Shit no. I’m just going to pass it on to my son.

      • David

        Then you go buy up those $41k Volt crappers because we surely won’t. In fact there will be no more Gov. Motors in my garage again. Ford union workers pay attention. If you drop the union and stay inspired; we will be buying your cars so fast from you-you won’t need a pension.

        • HFlashman

          David…nice Pro US patriotic thinking. You must be proud to be a member of the legions fighting to keep the US down as is the wont of the terrorists as well … and not put forth any reasonable and positive proposals which may be alternatives to current policy (which is saving yer as*)

          • Emmy

            HFlashman – what the heck are you smoking?!!!

          • Chow

            STFU you commie sob!!

          • kommanderkaput

            The Volt is ludicrous – 40 miles to a charge – and it takes a TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF ELECTRICITY TO CHARGE IT. It will effectively force electric companies to burn more coal to produce the increased demand for electricity. Wow – that will “Save the Planet”. What a shallow farce.

            As for Governmental Motors (GM) – has anyone mentioned that the only way these guys are staying affloat is that Obama has promised to give them a multi-billion dollar TAX BREAK !! Basically make them tax exempt for the next few years !! Does Ford get that same tax break ??
            Ford will survive even though the administration will probably make them pay GM’S SHARE OF TAXES.

            All things are not even. GM is being propped up.
            The only real “change” we have is in our pockets – what’s left after Obama has ransacked the collective piggy bank.

          • David

            Now Flashpants, I thought you were smart enough to know that Toyata, Honda, BMW, etc employee 1000s of americans. Look at their top 25 costs to produce and entitlements does not even show up. GM? Why it’s numero uno. This is why US manufacturers that are heavily union can not compete. We end up paying for entitlements instead of higher quality. I like Ford and am proud of them for not taking the TARP……but the workers need to wake up. Look at the trend in the graph above…..NOT TOO GOOD.

          • JC

            On November 18, 2010, the New York Stock Exchange and the Toronto Stock Exchange listed the Company. The U.S. Treasury share holdings in the Company have been reduced from about 61% to about 26%, which included preferred shares and accounting for stock options given to former G.M. bondholders. The initial sale of such shares yielded the Treasury department about US$13.6 billion proceeds. SAIC Motor, partner of G.M. in China and India, acquired just less than 1 percent of the new G.M. for about $500 million.

            Never again will I buy GM

          • JC

            You equate buying a Government Motors Vehicle as American patriotism?
            You really are a twisted commie.
            Go Ford! Now there’s an American Company with integrity.

          • Meteorlady

            JC – sorry to burst your bubble but Ford has a high tech plant in Brazil and they manufacture the Edge in Ontario, Canada.

            “This state-of-the-art manufacturing complex in the northeastern Brazilian state of Bahia is not only the centerpiece of Ford’s Brazilian turnaround plan, it is also one of the most advanced automobile plants in the world. It is more automated than many of Ford’s U.S. factories, and leaner and more flexible than any other Ford facility. It can produce five different vehicle platforms at the same time and on the same line.”

        • truesoy

          AAHHHH, I can tell a ‘Ditto Head’ when I hear one. A loyal Rush programmed automated ‘parrot’. Isn’t a beutiful world you live in?

          • Vicki

            Hi Robert. Trying a different ad hominem attack plan I see.

          • David Weber

            And I can tell when someone did not win ANY spelling bees as a child. Please use spellcheck before you post. Aren’t communists supposed to be intellectually superior to conservatives? Definitely not if you can’t even spell ‘beautiful’ correctly.

          • JC

            It will be when we’re done with you guys! LOL :)

          • truesoy

            This is in response to David;
            Please, be advised that I don’t claim to be better at spelling than you.
            But the missing ‘a’ was for not pressing on the key hard enough. I guess, just like a conservative, it too, is missing a beat. Ps: please, correct me if I did not properly expressed myself, english wise.

        • Peach

          I was a jack ass then I quit the UNION and become a CONSERVITIVE No more UNION.

        • MARY

          I JUST GOT A BRAND NEW FORD FOCUS FROM GARY YEOMAN’S IN DAYTONA BEACH FL. I LOVE IT….THANK YOU FORD FOR NOT TAKEING ANY BAILOUT MONEY, YOUR THE BEST AND MY NEW CAR IS GREAT,BEAUTIFUL CANDY RED,AND ITS SO NICE INSIDE….FOR ME USA ALL THE WAY>>>>NOW I’M LOOKING WHERE THINGS ARE FROM AND IF ITS NOT USA THEN BACK IT GOES, I EVEN TOOK FISH BACK TO THE MARKET WHEN THE BAG SAID FROM CHINA. EVEN MY TOOTHPASTE IS USA,LETS TAKE CARE OF OUR OWN.GOD BLESS THE USA. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      • Robin from Arcadia, IN

        truesoy… I’ll say Obama has done a lot… His health care plan has already raised my premium so high that I can hardly afford it. What has it done for you premiums?

        • truesoy

          Your healthcare premium were going through the roof before, so,what was the excuse then? at least now we can put some breaks on it, plus now is guaranteed by law, thanks to Obama, that your insurance coverage will be there when you need it, and that it won’t be cancel. That is true consumer protection, you should be happy to know.

          • MARY

            LOL TO THAT.

          • JC

            That is as hysterical as it is innaccurate.
            What magic dreamland are you living in?
            Socialist medicine will never work.
            Socialist “everything” is a failure before it even starts.

      • michelleo

        LIKE WHAT???? BY BRINGING THIS NATION CLOSER TO COMMUNISM? YES HE IS DOING THAT VERY WELL i AGREE 100%

        • truesoy

          Road to communism you say?, that was the Patriot Act, compliments of your man, Bush. I thought you’d like to know.

          • JC

            The road to communism started long before Bush and is being greatly advanced by the Kenyan. In fact the Kenyan village idiot is advancing the One World Soros agenda faster than any of his predecessors can claim.
            But that’s ok…he did us a very great service.
            He woke everyone up and alerted us to this treason.

      • dhellew2

        I can see that you failed kindergarten math. Compare the amount of money Bush (controlled by the democrat congress) spent compared to NObama plus the money Bush (controlled by the democrat congress) did not spend and passed on to NObama which NObama did blow and you have a ratio of about 15 to 1. NObama wins hands down as the biggest spender of all time with absolutely nothing to show for it except lies.

        It is impossible for unemployment to stay at a constant 9.6% when in reality it changes every day and is closer to 18%. Wake up and smell the roses before NObama decides they are poison and outlaws them.

        Next he will probably outlaw smoking (except for himself of course). NObama really does smell bad.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        You lie and distort the truth. Obama spent more in 8 months than the previous admin did in 8 years. He has double the debt, for our grandchildren to deal with. He has expanded government handouts to illegal aliens and those who dont want to work. The first thing the guy did was expand welfare and food stamps, and authorize using our American money to pay doctors overseas to perform abortions. And you know those same foreign doctors are billing us at least 3 times what the cost should be. You know its true. He has deviated from the plans in Iraq, and is most interested in cutting and running to make that country fail, so him and his ilk can blame Bush some more, and his escalation of the war in Afghanistan is nothing more than a ploy to hide his intentions of making Iraq fall into the hand of the Islamic nut cases. Again, you know its all true. He has given billions of our dollars to GM so that they could build plants in China, and you union jerks support this, imagine that. He has damned America at every turn, damned us to our enemies, and empowered and emboldened our enemies, even to the point of buying lawyers to defend them. He should be imprisoned as a traitor for this behavior. And now, he wants to add another 40 cents a gallon tax to gasoline, up everyones property taxes, up income taxes, and take away our tax deductions and reduce them for everyone, and still someone, uneducated stupid people like you back him up and say he is doing a good job and getting things done. Are you kidding me? Can someone possibly be that damn dumb? I just dont believe that someone can be brainwashed by the liberal press that they cannot see the nose on the front of their face. Again I ask, are you kidding me? A good job? Please, get to a doctor fast man, you need some serious help.

    • Carole Howell

      M J Montana,
      It does not matter who is in the WH anymore. Read what this guy has to say.

      The reasons that we’re in this mess is because of a multi-faceted war on the middle class that started after the Vietnam war protests in the late 60′s and early 70′s. The plutocrats saw how messy it was to have an educated and somewhat affluent middle class. So the war on education and the war against labor began in earnest with Reagan’s rise to governor of California and his ascendancy to president. Facts and figures easily plot the decline of our education system and the affluence of the middle class steadily since that point in history.

      Of course, the complacency of a labor force that was well paid and enjoyed generous benefits played right into the hands of the plutocrats. Many laborers with good union jobs were easily convinced that unions were inherently corrupt (some high profile cases in the news helped to further this meme) and that it was unfair that workers were forced to pay union dues. Many in the labor force bought that and voted against their own self interest, completing ignoring all the struggles of the unionists that came before them that had fought for and won the everything from the 40 hour work week to generous health benefits and pensions. Other union workers were convinced that union leadership was using their union dues to kill babies and take their guns away. These workers who bought the “unions are bad” bullshit are now the teabaggers who are led by Palin, and a host of big name radio and cable TV personalities. Ironically, many of them are retirees drawing union pensions and social security checks and getting their medical care from Medicare. But the U.S. has become an irony-free zone. Maybe there is a chemical in the water to cause this? More likely it is a lack of education coupled with a lack of intellectual curiosity.

      There are so many other fronts that this war on the middle class has been staged on, it would take a book to draw them altogether. The other most important points have been the deregulation of media ownership, the deregulation of industry and the financial sector, and the promotion of easy credit coupled with a housing bubble that convinced many that they could live that dream of a middle class lifestyle by putting it all on credit. They were convinced by experts that their home value would steadily increase forever and rescue them eventually from their self-made prison of debt. Couple all of that together with a constant media campaign telling Americans that they are special because they don’t need anyone to take care of them – that “real” Americans are completely self-sufficient, and the coup is complete.

      And now with the war almost completely won by the plutocrats, the vast majority of our billionaires are digging deep into their pockets to mount huge media campaigns to convince the population that the unemployed are lazy and don’t deserve to live, while the top 2% are the “job creators” and need more tax breaks to create more jobs. And our completely broken mass media refuse to report the plethora of factual data that disputes this. When it comes to “news” and “information”, our mass media smothers us in “opposite land”.

      People are buying it all because their lives are still fairly comfortable. And since they lack the education and skills necessary to discern the difference in the media reporting “so-and-so said this and therefore it is fact” instead of “so-and-so did this, and therefore you should take notice”, we will continue to plunge into 3rd world status until the labor force is back to where it was in the early 20th century – starving, treated as indentured servants, and kept in line by the National Guard.

    • blv54

      the libs are grasping at straws as they are desperate for something anything that will make their boy look good but you can’t turn a sows ear into a silk purse, has anyone else noticed obama’s been looking like an aides victim lately?

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Probably smoking crack with Marion Barry. People looked the other way for him when he got busted and re-elected him. Why not Barry?

    • dhellew2

      I think you meant that if NObama were a car and the car could go 100 mph NObma’s top speed forward is 100 mph in reverse…

  • John Law

    This is why ordinary people say that President Obama is a socialist. It is because so much — from the big banks to Detroit — is considered to be “Too Big To Fail.” The result is the federal goverment ownes huge chunks of it. What happens to the new GM if this recession/depression does a double dip? My guess is that the Obama team will double down Detroit — WITH OUR MONEY!

    • Kinetic1

      John Law,
      Let me get this straight, President Obama is a socialist because President Bush presented and signed TARP.
      Oh, I’m sorry, that’ not the whole story. President Obama is also a socialist because he went through with Bush’s auto bailout. From an article dated Dec. 19, 2008.

      “President George W. Bush stepped in Friday to keep America’s auto industry afloat, announcing a $17.4 billion bailout for GM and Chrysler, with the terms of the loans requiring that the firms radically restructure and show they can become profitable soon.

      “If we were to allow the free market to take its course now, it would almost certainly lead to disorderly bankruptcy,” Bush said at the White House, in remarks carried live by the national broadcast networks. “In the midst of a financial crisis and a recession, allowing the U.S. auto industry to collapse is not a responsible course of action. The question is how we can best give it a chance to succeed.”

      Bush said that “bankruptcy now would lead to a disorderly liquidation of American auto companies.”

      “My economic advisers believe that such a collapse would deal an unacceptably painful blow to hardworking Americans far beyond the auto industry. It would worsen a weak job market and exacerbate the financial crisis,” he said. “It could send our suffering economy into a deeper and longer recession.”

      The funny thing is that Obama is being given credit for one of the few things Bush got right.

      • JS

        Mmmmm, Kinetic1! You shut the big mouths up with that post.

        Way to go!

        • Dagney

          There’s no doubt George W. Bush set us up for Obama. I have seen noone argue that. However, there is something inherently evil when a government takes over an American business. Blame Bush all you want, he NEVER would have taken over these car companies and screwed over the bondholders as Obama did to pay off his union buddies.

          Just think about all the GM car commercials you see in the movie theaters, on television, in magazines, newpapers and guess who is paying for that? You and I are. And, the government has NO budget for advertising. They can just print and print and print money all they want for the purpose of advertising. Is that free market competition? Don’t you see a conflict of interest there? If you have no problem with this, you aren’t THINKING. Guess how much all of OUR money spent on advertising GM cars will sway most Americans who know that if they buy any one of these cars new, they are supporting a thugocracy and a Marxist state?

          • marvin

            Dagney
            you can not argue with a liberal cause they are like a broke clock they disreguard being wrong 23 hr and 59 sec a day if you throw enuf sh-t at a wall some will stick,when tarp was pass who was in charge of congress? the dems from 2006 white house 2008,bush did not pass tarp he just signed it,obama and the liberal dems took it to new hights

          • http://eddie47d@gmail.com eddie47d

            Clinton didn’t support NAFTA either for that was on the Republicans wish list(Gingrich).Yet since Clinton signed it into law he has taken the heat. Bush signed TARP so shouldn’t he be the one taking the heat? Both Presidents thought they were doing the right thing at the time. NAFTA is not working out too well and encouraged jobs to leave and GM could be in the same boat. I personally don’t care for GM and haven’t since the 60′s ( I prefer Dodge) yet I would never discourage someone from buying an American product if it’s built right. They do have the Traverse and are improving the way they are built.

          • kommanderkaput

            Dagny has it right – and read my post above. GM is getting a HUGE TAX EXEMPTION SO THEIR BOTTOM LINE WILL LOOK GOOD !!!! OBAMA is propping them up with BILLIONS in tax breaks over the next few years.

            At the rate he’s spending (Multiple times the spending of any previous administration) and giving his FRIENDS tax breaks, we will be heading for a much worse recession than what we’ve seen thus far.

          • Donald

            TARP involved temporary control to prevent total collap;s of the economy. Bush did the right thing. It will all be totally back in private hands in a few years. So where the Marxism and the Socialism there?

          • Kinetic1

            Marvin,
            It’s easy to accuse others of changing the facts when you present your own version. You are correct that the Democrats were in charge of Congress in 2008, and they did indeed “pass the bill”, but the bill only came up when President Bush and Secretary Paulson came to them warning of financial collapse if their recommended bill was not past within days. The Congress did take control to some degree, making some changes here and there, but it was the White House driving the call.

            NBC Meet the Press, Sept 19, 2008 – “This is an urgent matter, and we need to move quickly,” Paulson said in urging Congress to immediately approve the Bush administration’s request for sweeping authority to bypass regulatory agencies and directly take over the bad mortgages and mortgage-backed securities.”

            Note that it is “the Bush administration’s request for sweeping authority to bypass regulatory agencies…” not Democratic Congressional leaders or even Republican Congressional leaders but Bush.

            Washington Post, Sept 23, 2008 – “The Bush administration is resisting changes to the measure being sought by Democratic leaders and many Republicans, including one that would grant the government authority to cut executive pay at firms that participate in the bailout and another that would guarantee that taxpayers share in the profits if those firms recover financially.

            Meanwhile, rank-and-file lawmakers — returning to Washington after a weekend in their districts — voiced outrage that taxpayers were being asked to pay for the excesses of Wall Street and that Congress was being prodded to rubber-stamp the biggest federal intervention in the private market since the Great Depression. While Democratic leaders said they could embrace the bailout plan with certain modifications, a growing minority of lawmakers were starting to question the very premise of the Treasury Department’s proposal.”

            So clearly the Democrats were not all convinced but felt the urgency presented by the White House. They pushed this through in record time and even that was too long for Bush. He wanted them to pass the bill just as Paulson had written it. So it’s true, in a Hannity sort of way when you say “bush did not pass tarp he just signed it”, but the fact remains that his administration wrote the bill, presented the “emergency”, pushed for quick passage and fought to resist changes to their original version. That’s not history re-written with liberal bias, that is simply history you can’t deny.

            Oh, and I agree that you and yours really do throw a lot of sh-t around here.

      • 45caliber

        No, Oblama is not a socialist because of what Bush did. He is a socialist because of what he is doing himself.

        Things like “redistribution of the wealth”. Things like Oblamacare. Things like taking control of various businesses like GM. Things like making people work for the government (medical professionals) instead of others. Things like many of the other things he has done.

        Those things are the mark of a socialist – or can you say Communist?

        • Emmy

          This is actually communism. But, you have to understand what communism is, and how it works in order to get what’s really happening in this country. The Obama institution is engaged in communism; their mantra, their agenda, their mission, their goal. And, might I add they are carrying it out without any serious opposition from anyone. Sure, you hear people complain, but it is up to the House. The “hope” we thought we had voted in.

          So, will the Obama institution succeed in completely transforming the once free America into a communist nation? Yes. If he isn’t impeached, he will.

          You have to ask yourself, how has an individual that is proudly anti-American, anti-freedom, anti-constitution, that has essentially committed TREASON since taking control of this country been allowed to do what he has done??

          • JC

            He’s pushing until we push back. The question is, how far will that be?

          • Kinetic1

            Emmy,
            Clearly you have a common understanding of Communism, and it’s wrong. The USSR was not Communist, but Stalinist. Stalinism may be a branch of Communism, but it’s still different. The USSR started out with Communism right after the revolution, but Communism advocates the “collective ownership of property and the organization of labor for the common advantage of all members” and Stalin put an quick end to that notion. China is no longer Communist either. They now walk a strange line between Socialist and Capitalist. Cuba may be the closest to Communism we have today, but even they tried to follow Lennon and Stalin.

            So maybe you want to accuse President Obama of being a Socialist. Well, Socialism is described by one source as “a political system where the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy.” That sounds fitting for those of you who think Obama is “running” GM, but it also fits with numerous local and state authorities that run water, power, sanitization and other systems in our “Republic.” America has been dabbling in Socialism like this for decades. Do you want to go and shut them down as well?

            A quick note for 45caliber: You may have missed the fact that Bush wanted to control the auto makers as well. Quoting from a 2008 article -

            “President George W. Bush stepped in Friday to keep America’s auto industry afloat, announcing a $17.4 billion bailout for GM and Chrysler, with the terms of the loans requiring that the firms radically restructure and show they can become profitable soon.”

            Of course it only makes sense that we would demand some changes before handing out loans of this size. Otherwise, wouldn’t we risk loosing all that money to “business as usual”? If we had insisted on more control of the banks and insurance companies, we might not be struggling while banks resist making loans, hang on to our money and continue to hand out huge bonuses as they count our cash as “profits”.

          • Emmy

            Kinetic1 – OK, so you are clearly sporting a hard-on for Obama. Whatever. But, within your fluff piece of nonsense – or retort, you actually supported my comments. Read your own stuff.

            No, I don’t want to accuse Obama of being a Socialist, he isn’t. He is far more sinister than a mere Socialist. And, what’s going on in this country is not a Socialist movement. It is full blown, in progress, destructive measures aimed at destroying every system in this country – for the common good of course.

            You are hilarious! You sound like someone who goes around trying to sound like someone who knows what he’s talking about. But, you know the look a dog gives you when they can’t make out what you’re saying. I picture everyone doing that same thing to you when they hear you try to make a point.

          • Vicki

            Socialism
            so·cial·ism
            noun ˈsō-shə-ˌli-zəm
            Definition of SOCIALISM
            1
            : any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
            2
            a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
            3
            : a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done

            http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism

          • Vicki

            com·mu·nism
            noun ˈkäm-yə-ˌni-zəm, -yü-
            Definition of COMMUNISM
            1
            a : a theory advocating elimination of private property
            b : a system in which goods are owned in common and are available to all as needed
            2
            capitalized a : a doctrine based on revolutionary Marxian socialism and Marxism-Leninism that was the official ideology of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics
            b : a totalitarian system of government in which a single authoritarian party controls state-owned means of production
            c : a final stage of society in Marxist theory in which the state has withered away and economic goods are distributed equitably
            d : communist systems collectively
            http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/communism?show=0&t=1291243021

            You will note that 2b closely matches socialism. You will also notice that 1b also matches socialism because when everyone owns everything someone will have to step on the peasants to keep them in line. Humans concept of need is vastly overblown compared to their actual need.

          • Kinetic1

            Emmy,
            Given your reply, I can imagine you as a confused dog as well. Bark all you want, the mail man is not a sinister threat.

          • Claire

            As the owner of numerous show dogs–do not compare dogs to a politician. My dogs are much smarter than any politician.

          • Vicki

            Kinetic1 says:
            “Emmy,
            Given your reply, I can imagine you as a confused dog as well. Bark all you want, the mail man is not a sinister threat.”

            And the winner is Emmy.
            Though she used an ad hominem attack against Kenetic1 she actually included points to refute kinetic1s position. Kinetic1 responded above with an ad hominem attack and no arguments nor substantive points so the round and the win goes to Emmy.

          • JC

            GO EMMY! You da babe!
            Awesome comment.

        • Doc Sarvis

          45caliber
          Redistribution of wealth has been going on for decades, though more pronounced recently. The money has been flowing up to the top 2%. They don’t work harder than most of us and they put precious little back into OUR economy that would benefit our country.
          I know of Very few “medical professionals” who work for the government.
          Those are your “the President is a Socialist” arguments?!?

          • Kinetic1

            Doc,
            You got that right. The top 2% saw an average income increase of 10% per year during the Bush administration while the rest of us flat lined.

          • Vicki

            Doc Sarvis. There are 2 ways to redistribute wealth.
            One is by providing a product or service that those with wealth (and those without much) are willing to trade some of for that product or service.

            The other is by taking it at gunpoint. (by force)

            We who are conservative like the first method and see no reason why the most successful at it should be demonized for being successful

            Those who prefer the 2nd method are crooks and politicians (Liberals of course using politicians as their front men).

            Those who prefer the first method are freemen
            Those who prefer the 2nd method are Slaveowners or slaves.

          • OPHELIA

            WHO ARE ALL THE FOOLS GIVING THE HOLLYWOOD STARS AND ATHLETES MEGA BUCKS AND MAKING THIS SUPER RICH. THE POOR AND THE MIDDLE CLASS. ALSO, PEOPLE WANT WALMART PRICES(CHEAP-CHEAP) BUT WANT BIG BUCKS TO WORK. WE NEED TO BUY AMERICAN, EVEN IF THE PRICE IS HIGHER!!!!

          • truesoy

            Apparently these people don’t know what our tax system is, and that is for the redistribution of money. Like when the federal government allocates hwy funds, or whent they support defense contract/expending in one area of the country to stimulate that economy, etc, etc.

          • JC

            Doc, the President we have right now is a vile cancer who was inflicted on the country by people who were tired of business as usual and “Hopeful” that it would change. It has not changed, it has gotten a lot worse and very quickly at that.
            Socialism is not the answer any more than the fascism, rent seeking and cronyism that tries to pass itself off as free market capitalism.

            We need a strict return to the Constitution and its principles of Liberty and Justice.
            We need to imprison our elected officials for violating those principles when they do so.

            What we don’t need is “more control” of the people.

      • Tim-Gabz

        The one issue being missed is that Bush’s bailout had conditions, to restructure and all parties come to the table. Obama replaced the CEO and omitted the Unions from the deal.

        We believed that GM was going to be tossed into history’s garbage heap. In the “recovery” GM worked over several European govts and reneaged on selling off Opel after undertaking selling it off.

        GM effectively exists due to the foreign assets, using models (some excellent) that could not be economically made in USA.

      • truesoy

        Please, be nice. Don’t overwhelm these folks with facts.

      • JC

        What’s your point Kinetic? You’re describing what has been business as usual since 1913. Since the Fed slithered into existence…

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Undoubtedly from a left wing liberal rag. Like you can believe anything in a liberal newspaper.

    • Bob Wire

      By your own reasoning “W Bush” is a Socialist as well then.

      * Business
      * US economy

      US bites the bullet with an ‘aggressive’ $250bn bank bail-out

      * The Guardian, Wednesday 15 October 2008
      * Article history

      The Bush administration has reluctantly followed Britain’s lead by pumping $250bn £143bn) into shares in leading banks after a stockmarket meltdown scotched efforts to shore up confidence in the financial system.

      Under a program described by President Bush as “unprecedented and aggressive”, the US treasury will buy minority stakes in nine leading banks including Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, Bank of America and Citigroup. Thousands of community banks will be eligible to follow.

      Why must any cheerful news be met with sour grapes?

      Because there a black democrat setting in a white house ?

      Because I’m a loyal ditto head and follow party sentiment?

      Because Rush beats his drum and I love to march?

      Because my glass is always half empty?

      Because I don’t like American Business to do well?

      Because I hate Chevrolet?

      Because I’m a foreign agent and hold no loyalties to the US?

      Because I’m unhappy with my life and want to share?

      Because I’m want as many people unemployed as possible to prove democrats are stupid and only want free rides and give a ways?

      Because I’m a “Conservative” ?

      • 45caliber

        You’re a conservative? News to me!

        • Bob Wire

          Sure ! it’s easy to self proclaim ! as easy a accepting blind twisted logic ~ because someone call themselves a Conservative offer it!

          reasoning ~ only a sack of hammers could envy.

          • marvin

            Bob Wire
            you need to stop setting on that bob wire it has efected your brain,it must be hard to live in so much pain and anger,or is it just plain bush hate that cause you so much pain,in 2010 the voter rejected the liberal take over and in 2012 more will feel your pain as the conseritive boot kick your liberal as- pres out,most people with a brain learn from the past and change,but liberals like you never learn stuped is as stuped does

          • http://eddie47d@gmail.com eddie47d

            It’s certainly no stronger than your Obama hatred and your’re dislikes seem to be much more aggressive.

          • TIME

            Eddie,
            To hate ~ is to love, they are intertwined, a Ying & Yang as it were.

            As I see it Barry Soetoro to me is nothing, he is a zero and flat line a void, thus I feel nothing about him.

            And that Eddie is why Perfect harmony is so hard to find, as in the sound of one hand claping, do you grasp what that means?

          • Kinetic1

            Marvin,
            Assuming you went to school, learn from the past and change. Commas represent a pause in a thought, while the period denotes the end of a sentence/statement. It’s not too hard to ignore spelling errors and typos, but your run-on sentences make it difficult to read your thoughts. Well, even after editing your thoughts are often painful to read, but you get the point.

          • JC

            Kinetic, that is the last resort of the very small minded. True colors?

      • kommanderkaput

        Bob Wire – fyi – Many conservatives were angry at Bush for his TARP spending. Rush Limbaugh included.
        We call it as we see it – regardless of the D or R behind the name.
        Take the run-away spending of the Bush administration and multiply it by about 4 – AND YOU HAVE THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION !

        • Vicki

          That is cause Obama et all know how to make a bad thing a LOT worse. :)
          “Never let a good crisis go to waste”

        • truesoy

          So, could you please be a bit more specific? Any facts, or data, that would identified where and how this took place?

      • kommanderkaput

        BOB WIRE SAYS conservatives are upset . . . “Because there a black democrat setting in a white house ?”

        Let’s not forget to just throw that in, huh, Bobby.
        Let’s not forget to stray from all the legit problems in the “0″ (zero) administration and imply RACISM.

        Game plan: when you are losing all the main arguments, accuse the opponent of being a “racist”. Yeah. Let’s do that.

        I got news for Bobby-boy. That’s one of the reasons so many Dems got kicked out of office recently. They accused a MAJORITY OF AMERICANS (tea party and tea party sympathizers) of being racist. And when you accuse someone of something THEY NO THEY ARE NOT – YOU ONLY MAKE THEM ANGRY. KEEP IT UP LAMEBRAIN.

        • Vicki

          You will observe yet again that it is the liberal thinking type that brings up race. Makes you think they are not as PC as they claim.

        • truesoy

          KOMMANDERKAPUT, THE CONSERVATIVE VICTORY JUST PROVED HOW EASILY ARE THE MASSES MANIPULATED. YOU WERE FOOLED AND WILL CONTINUE TO BE FOOLED, AND MANIPULATED TO VOTE AGAINST YOUR OWN INTEREST FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE FEW. BUT DON’T FORGET THAT, JUST LIKE THE TITANIC, WHEN YOU SINK THE LOWER DECKS, THE UPPER DECKS WILL FOLLOW. AND IT ALL WILL BE ON YOU, THE PROUD, THOUGH MISLEAD, CONSERVATIVES.

          • David Weber

            “THE Obama VICTORY JUST PROVED HOW EASILY ARE THE MASSES MANIPULATED. YOU WERE FOOLED AND WILL CONTINUE TO BE FOOLED, AND MANIPULATED TO VOTE AGAINST YOUR OWN INTEREST FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE FEW.” There. Fixed it for you. You probably should have said “how easily the masses ARE manipulated” though. Very weird sentence structure in your post.

          • truesoy

            In answer to David;

            ‘Weird sentence structure’, is not. Unique, yes.
            The truth of my comment, undeniable.

          • Vicki

            Proof by bald assertion is still a failing debate technique. Several people can and have denied your statement so they will not bother to do so again. Since they have denied it it can not be undeniable and thus is false on the face of it. Thanks for playing.

      • lpharless2000

        Dear Bob Wire,

        Our president is half white, not African American. Speaking of America though, we are very tired of you liberals playing the “Race Card” everytime your logic doesn’t work.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        I like how you slip the race card in there, insinuating that anyone that isnt a liberal is a racist. You are a racist for even bringing color up sir. Racist, racist racist. I would have voted for Condoleeza Rice over Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama or Joe Biden or John Kerry, and I wish she would have ran. But she did want you liberals coming after her family and dragging every one she loves through the mud, so we lost out, because of your attack machine. And now you have the audacity to bring up race? Your a blooming racist sir, and shame on you for playing the race card. Note to you Mr. Bob Wire. A black man is the president. Blacks can do anything. If he can do it, any black person can do it. The race card is dead, and only exists for racists to play with it. And you played with it. Your a dirty racist, and shame on you.

  • http://none Mike

    Stocks bought and sold by Goldmen Sacs on freasly printed money from the fed. Looks to me like we are still bailing them out. I doubt their stock climbs into that 50 dollar a share range without some ponzi scheem to prop it up.Mike L.

    • http://www.brainbloggin.com Changes

      Ummm You fools Goldmen Sacs is our Government! Just how can huge corporations loose huge amounts monies with our Government regulations watching over them. After all how can the quarterly reports be profitable the 2nd and needing bail outs the next. AIG, GM, Bank Of America. Get a clue people all they did was ether cover up their losses or they created the losses and just maybe some of both and the HUGE CEO’s drew HUGE pay and even LARGER Bonuses.

      • David

        So they control WikiLeaks? BofA is next…..and it isn’t headquartered in the Soviet society of NY.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        They may be your government, but they are not mine. I guarantee you that. No sir.

    • Warrior

      Mike, you’re just being cynical again. I’m positive that is all just a coincidence. You don’t actually think guvment would be picking winners and losers do you?

      • http://none Mike

        Warrior, Who me Cynical(innocent eyes)Without any real reforms this is just another show. And have you seen the GREEN ENERGY commercials they are makeing? Bought and paid for with your tax dollars no doubt.They were bailed out to become the next mouthpice for the tree hugger crowd. Its not cynical to see the truth behind the lies. Its just realistic and should make everyone who sees it sick. Mike L.

  • Claire

    Personally, I do not want to see GM fail. To me, if failure happens, look at all the people that will be out of a job. I don’t think I want to see that happen. We have enough unemployed. I will back GM–General Motors. In fact, I have a new Chevy Impala-I have been a Chevy person my entire life and I will remain a Chevy person. Call it what you will, this is my choice and my beliefs. I do not approve of some of the bail-outs but I will stand behind GM.

    • http://www.brainbloggin.com Changes

      I would not even think of a new GM! I have a few thousand shares of the old GM stock for sale that I am taking a blood bath on!

      With that said I bought a new DODGE mini Van March 09 and a Dodge Ram 1500 Nov 09. This year we purchased a new FORD CONVERSION VAN for a trip from from Kansas City to Alaska and back and heading to tour Arizona Dec 12th returning Jan 21 2011.

      • Claire

        Changes–And I have a ’94 full size Chevy van that has been all over the U.S. with the exception of a couple of states. I have close to l70,000 miles on it and it still purrs like a kitten. And don’t laugh–I get 21 miles to the gallon on the interstate. It is an 8-cylinder with a car chassis and rides like a Cadillac. It gets routine maintenance twice a year-I get it ready for summer and for winter. On all of my trips it never broke down on me, ever. I also have a ’69 Camaro Rally sport that I treasure. My husband has a Jeep and it has been a good one too. Now I have a new Chevy Malibu-and you know what? I am happy that I bought another Chevy. I don’t want to see GM fail. I want GM to make a come-back.

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          Good for you Claire, Im glad you got a good one. However, we have a fleet of 46 Chevy full size vans, and Ive never seen such a bunch of junk, as I have to coordinate all the paperwork for the dozens of recalls and the repair bills on these vans. We never had these kind of problems when I first started here 14 years ago, when our fleet was all Dodge’s and Ford’s. These Chevy’s are junk. As are the Trailblazers that they bought for a few of the office guys. Not many of them make it to 150,000, with most of them dying at 130,000. We used to run the Ford’s and Dodge’s up to 200,000. Those days are gone. To me Chevy is the worst line GM makes. And it is totally unbelievable how many recalls we have, and the time and money it costs us running vehicles to the dealer, and running back to get them when they are fixed. And I know that the majority of these, are because as they go down the line, some union crap says “its not my job”, and lets them be produced where there is a problem. Thats why until they rid themselves of the unions, I will stick with my Honda CRV. And if Honda ever goes union, I guess I will look elsewhere. I can say this will full confidence, having worked in union shops for 13 years of my younger life, and I saw first hand the lack of care for quality and for the companies these union guys worked for. They could care less. Sorry, I was there and saw it, and that is why they are having the problems they have today. No doubt about it.

          • Claire

            Beberoni—Yes, my old ’94 Chevy Van is still going. Just had a routine check-up done and winterizing so I am all ready for cold weather. I have been lucky with it. I know what you mean about workmanship. Seems like it used to be some of the young ones that didn’t care about the quality of work they put out. Now it seems some of the older ones are getting the same way. Unions–I believe they had good intentions when they first started but they became too greedy. I haven’t put much faith in unions for a long time. I work for a publishing company and many years ago the employees had a chance to have a union, but we decided against it.

    • marvin

      claire
      if you owned a company and your worker keep demanding, more money, more benefits, less work, longer breaks,so you give in, and give and give tell you can no longer pass it on to the buyer ,you think it is ok that the same people, the worker,s [unions] that broke you need be rewarded and the investors get screwed and we the people that did not have a stake in you not wanting to saying no have to bail you out because you were stuped,their is only so much juice in a lemon,their comes a time when you sink or swim,when out go is more then income,you cut expences,unlike gm cry and the goverment all broke

      • Claire

        marvin–I stand by what I posted. My mind is made up.

        • libertytrain

          Go Claire! :) :D

          • Claire

            libertytrain– Thank you! And to add to it, my son is thinking of a new Chevy. He hasn’t decided which model–he has been looking at the new Camaros. Hope he gets one, then maybe I can drive it! He has a Ford Expedition plus a 1990 Pontiac Firebird that is real cool. Gosh, I love the old “muscle cars.” Bob and I have had Chevys during our entire married life. The Chevy is an icon as far as I am concerned.

          • libertytrain

            Claire – stick to your guns and what’s right for you – and for me, I’m off for a couple days to do an art show in Marietta GA so you won’t have any trouble from me these next few days. :D

          • Claire

            libertytrain–I envy you–wish I could be an artist. I would love to paint pictures of my dogs, etc. My son is a good artist but now he doesn’t do anything with his talent but draw blueprints for interstates and roads. I would love to see him take his artistic talent up again. He was good at it.
            I may be headed for Belleville this weekend, I will drive back and forth if I go. Belleville is about 2 hours one way from Springfield. I have Vinnie entered at the dog shows. Sure hope he wins, but one never knows what the judge will like. My Tanner is his father. Tanner’s daughter in Florida got her Grand Championship 2 weeks ago.
            Bob received some bad news late Wednesday evening before Thanksgiving. One of the aneurysms near his heart has grown-almost 6 centimeters. The doctors said he could wait it out until his kidneys fail (they are preparing him for dialysis) and do surgery then because if he does it now, his kidneys will fail with this surgery since they have to use so much dye. It is Bob’s decision to make, either way his kidneys will fail. It is just that if he has the surgery his kidneys will fail quicker. It is a tough call. I told him I would stay home this weekend but he wants me to get Vinnie’s championship. So if I do go, I hope Vinnie wins.
            Sorry everyone for getting off the subject at hand. But I love libertytrain!

          • libertytrain

            Claire – so sorry for your Bob. I can only imagine the stress you must be feeling – am glad for you and the pups and your son can always get back to his artwork later – it will still be there for him – Are you still working? I swear I’m going to send you a Christmas card!

          • Claire

            libertytrain–Yes, I am still working. Have to support my frivolous hobby of showing dogs, dog food, vet care if needed, etc. I just completed a huge manuscript on radiography. 1200 pages with almost 400 photos. It was a chore. No errors allowed!! And the author had a lot of the photos misnumbered so I had to send everything back to him to get “straightened up.” God forbid if a photo was put in the wrong place! I will tell you this, I will think twice before I get any x-rays, especially if I ever have to have a lot of them. This book certainly opened my eyes. For example, if a child has too many x-rays over a period of time, the child can come down with leukemia.
            Enjoy your trip to Marietta, GA. I would love to see your artwork.

          • libertytrain

            Thanks Claire – I think I figured out something – Wish I could talk with you.

      • truesoy

        You can hate unions all you want, but the fact is, and you have to admit it, that they helped create middle class America!

    • Richard

      Ask yourselves… If GM went out of business today how many foreign workers would be unemployed versus the American workers? Answer: A lot more than you’ve been led to think. For better or for worse this is the new globalism.

    • John

      Re: the Gm debacle. Wonder how many of you buy FOREIGN CARS??? Yes, it’s true the US big three got complacent and the cars weren’t as good as they used to be (nor are now) and they were gas HOGS. BUT you bought the foreign CRAP. Sure, I know, it started with better gas mileage in the 70′s but (the cars Toyotas, Datsuns etc. were junk), did it stop you from buying one? NO!

      It seemed that unions caused many problems, the UAW being amongst the worst ($55.00+/hour wages for mainly automated assmbly workers). “Nice job if can get it, but it won’t exist for long”. Aren’t unions wonderful??

      That aside, it sure doesn’t do our country one bit of good to buy FOREIGN PRODUCTS (I have never owned nor will I ever own a foreign car).Yeah I know, nowadays there’s hardly a car totally produced in the US from all US parts, but at least it’s adding to our GNP not Japans’. So, blame yourselves (for buying foreign products) and our government (for not imposing the same tariffs, taxes and duties on imports that the other countries charge us) for the demise of one of our most important industries,(there are plenty of others). If you think our foregn competitor (countries) don’t subsidize their national companies, take another look. Yes, the foreign consumers may not want the US products (unlike most US consumers, they know their livelyhood depednds on their GNP), but the price is a major factor (almost always many times higher for the US products).

      After all this you can defintely blame barack h. osama, For this and more!!!!!

      We still control the market by buying the items in question. Write your Congrssman and Senators re: the import tariffs, etc. to create a level playing field, calling names and bitching at each other won’t do one dam* thing to solve any of the issues these forums discuss.

    • JC

      When GM took money from the government I sold a two year old Silverado and bought a new Ford. I’m on my 3rd new Ford since then as I sell them every two years and buy new. No more Chevy’s for me.
      I couldn’t care less if the UAW and GM go down in flames. They should never have been getting 45.00 – 60.00 dollars an hour plus benefits to tighten lug nuts if the market doesn’t support it.
      And apparently the market didn’t support it…so the government “forced” us to support it…they can all GTH.

  • Pat George

    Seems like a strange figure that it saved One Million jobs. Does this blooming idiot know how many jobs the UAW has in this industry?
    It helped destroy value on millions of Americans cars that Obama wanted destroyed. Looks like the Chicoms were the biggest benificiary of this idiocracy.

  • Dad

    When discussing this topic, it should be coupled with the Cash-for-clunkers policy that benefitted foriegn competition… not to mention increasing the deficit.

    • Bob Wire

      it didn’t have too, as buyer choice applies.

      and new cars use less fuel, which decreases crude demand

      • 45caliber

        If GM would release or even use the patents it owns, it could easily produce a car that could get 85 mpg. It could produce an electric car, using normal car batteries, that could go 65+ for over 300 miles with a 30 minute recharge. Etc.

        I’ve ridden in the electric car they bought out and withheld. I’ve ridden in two other cars they bought out. Where are they?

        Of course, it isn’t all GM’s fault. The government doesn’t want those cars out either since it would cut deeply into all the fuel taxes they collect.

        • Milena

          Not to mention that most of the government are supported by oil men and government does not want to spoil relations with oil men and release a electric car. That would drop the demand of oil and who will lose? The oil industry that supported them. Government wants us to be oil addicted to make service to the oil industry. I am a movie maker and I am making a movie about that. Call me if you want to speak in front of the camera about electric cars. My email is MIVAN9778@gmail.com

    • truesoy

      The policy was great. It was the people that made the choice of what to buy: unless you are advocating for the government to tell you what to buy. This would be an strange brand of conservatism on your part, wouldn’t it?

  • Warrior

    Does this mean that eventually we will be able to buy a GM at WalMart? Will it come with lead paint?

    • 45caliber

      All cars come with lead paint now. It’s the only paint they can keep on the car. The top coat isn’t lead but the bottom one certainly is. When they tried to sell cars with no lead paint they had to repaint them about every two years since it would peel off. You may remember some of those peeled cars. I owned one of them.

      • Warrior

        Well, if I had a child that was eating the paint off my car, would it have to be recalled?

        • castaway

          Which the child, or the car?????

          • libertytrain

            probably both would be recalled and you’d be talking to a lawyer to get your kid back because it would have been taken from you and placed in foster care since you are now an unfit parent.

          • kommanderkaput

            LOL !!

          • Claire

            libertytrain— Brilliant answer!!! Hooray for you!!!

        • Vigilant

          Which one? The child or the car? (:-)

          • Vigilant

            Sorry, castaway, I posted before the page refreshed. But great minds think alike, huh?

          • Warrior

            Why the Lawyer would have to be recalled, of course!

  • JOHN

    Now that the gov. has bailed out the UAW lets force the company to build Eco-Tin cans that few in this country want to drive.The Government and the UAW, what a formula for disaster.Had we not subscribed to the to big to fail theory CLAIRE could have had the opportunity to buy her next Chevy from a responsible group of new investors as most of these GM divisions would have be reorganised through the normal path of bankruptcy. Its to bad it had to come to this as GM is actually building some great Autos right now fresh off of Eouropean drawing boards.

    • castaway

      The first step in returning manufacturing to America, is the elimination of all UNIONS!

    • http://eddie47d@gmail.com eddie47d

      I’m not sure if there is a normal path to bankruptcy. Either you have it or you don’t and the creditors get shafted no matter which way the wind blows. (pennies on the dollar)

    • castaway

      From companies they own in Europe, and in Australia. Or did own. No matter, Americans like foreign junk and garbage. America has the symptoms of “the grass is greener on the other side of the fence” syndrome so bad, I’m sure we will capsize.

    • Milena

      Eco tin-cars that noone wants to buy? I do, and I know many that do. Better than be dependent on oil and send soldiers to Iraq. You know how many kids died in Iraq today? 4. All of them have mothers. Do you have a kid, knuckle head? Would you send it to Iraq and fear it may not return? Well you better drive electric car then.

  • Jean

    And no mention made of the unions who made money on the IPO, while we measly American taxpayers must hope that GM stock reaches over $50 per share in our lifetime to break even!

    • castaway

      It is sometimes very difficult to know who is running the country, the unions, or the government.I’m beginning to think it is a 60/40 partnership, with the unions owning the 60%.

      • Milena

        let me tell you fellow: the oil industry is running the country. There is neither the unions nor the government. The government is chosen after the oil industry supported their candidacy. Nothing happens without money and oil industry has money so once they endorse a candidacy, they support it financially and you have the feeling you choosing someone. If someone pays big buck for your candidacy, would you disappoint them or want them to support you for a second term?

        • Vicki

          And why would the oil industry want Obama and his “green” jobs? You may be right about Obama being a puppet but I am not sure you have the right group behind the selection of candidates.

  • Joe kid

    You can’t win for loosing. If the guy had done
    Nothing he would be labeled incompetent.
    The fact is he has rescued an saved a company
    that is an integral part of the American story and we
    still can’t give him a break. Just leave the tender
    moments alone

    • HFlashman

      You have to give the GOP programmers credit Joe. They try their best to throw mud on everything this admin has done to take us out of the GOP/BushII Great Recession.

      Like this auto bailout. OK..so we saved a million jobs. OK, so we saved a domestic car maker making US product. OK, so it appears we’ll make a few shekels or lose a few shekels in doing this (not costing the “hundreds of billions’ the GOP has cried about). From all the numbers coming out now it appears that we are coming out of the worst, most serious economic crisis this country has expreienced in the past 80 years. We took our federal monetary policy one direction, Europe the other…anyone look to see what shape the EU is in these days while we are climbing out?

      And on and on. Obama is making the hard choices…and these guys are screaming and whining. Yet….even today, the GOP and these robots offer no alternative solutions. Not one except radicalized notions based on fairty tales and insane notions based upon …..well, based upon proven economics that has shown to drive us deepr into debt and weken our stability.

      Oh wait…the GOp yesterday said they would “allow” extended unemployment dribbles if the rich received thier HUGE tax breaks..extension of unemployment to add less than $50 billion to our bottom line and then only temporary. The wealthy receiving yet another subsidy? $600 billion/year.

      Wonder how they look in any mirror and see anything resembling a “patriot’ ….

      • 45caliber

        Evidently “patriot” doesn’t mean the same to you as it does to me. Giving up my money so someone can spend it for me isn’t what I would call “patriotic”. It’s more like “stupid”.

        • Vicki

          There is voluntarily giving up your money then there is giving up your money at gunpoint. Only one of those might be stupid. It might also be charity.

      • Dagney

        Ho, hum, another lefty who lies or repeats without question (most likely) lies.

        Fact is, under Bush, unemployment was just over 4%, that is, until 2006 and the Democrats started taking over and engineering winners and losers again. No, Democrats aren’t the only sinners, but the whole party platform is COMPLETELY unAmerican. I guess ignoring facts will always be part of your stock-in-trade, huh? The “Great Recession” we are still mired in is the result of big Democrat policies starting with CARTER, put on steroids by CLINTON and Janet RENO (Fannie, Freddie, Chris Dodd, Barney Fwank, and Acorn, and Barack Obama acting as lawyer on lawsuits for Acorn suing due to alledged “red-lining”). They forced lenders to give mortgages to people who had no hope of paying the money back. That the lenders tried to make these mortgages into something that would make them money is to be expected. It’s called “self-interest” (no, not the same as “selfishness”, not even close!) and keeping stock-holders happy.

        “The wealthy receiving yet another subsidy? $600 billion/year.” Another FACT that alludes the Marxist lefty, they’re not talking about REDUCING taxes, they’re talking about keeping the current tax rates the same! Do all lefties have a brick inside their heads for a brain? Maybe not, but they think the rest of America does. Common Sense ALERT: Letting millionaires (and others) KEEP THEIR OWN MONEY is NOT a subsidy!!! Jeez, what idiocy these talking points display. And, what does this number $600 billion/year signify? It is a lie, as usual. (But, that’s all a lefty knows how to do). As history and FACTS show, if they were to actually CUT taxes further, they would realize more revenues in the governmental coffers than even most little pea-brain lefty sheep can imagine.

        However, people who look at reality know that filling the U.S. Government’s coffers is not the desire of Barack Obama. The purpose of this REGIME is obvious to anyone who has any common sense to see. Our president wishes to DESTROY our economy and this nation. No sane person, with any economic sense, would do anything that he has done unless that was his purpose.

        • William

          Unemployment always behind conditions of economy for a few years.
          So economy was healthy when Bush took it from Clinton. By the year 2004
          it became shaky. By the year 2006 unemployment stared to climb. In 2008
          when Obama took office economy was in deep crisis and unemployment was climbing as crazy. It took Obama less then a year to start economy recovery and stabilize unemployment rate. And by now recovery still continue and unemployment finally started to drop down. So why blame Obama for Bush failures?

          • Dagney

            Clinton’s successes can be attributed to a REPUBLICAN, semi-conservative Congress and since he and Janet Reno put the CRA on steriods, it would, of course, take time for the S*IT to hit the fan and splat on his successor’s face! Geez, think man! On top of the CRA starting to crumble, 9/11 happened and about DESTROYED our economy. Bush’s tax cuts, (more common sense evidence at what helps our economy), helped us recover from that devastation! Not TAKING money from the productive, as our current Marxist in chief is doing, but letting them KEEP their own money!

            Sheesh! Next, I suppose you will say that Bush planned and executed 9/11, too? What idiocy!

          • Dagney

            “Unemployment always behind conditions of economy for a few years.”

            Oh, and if your premise is correct (and it is), then Clinton’s successes were won on the back of Ronald Reagan. Reagan’s policies were so elementally strong for our economy, it took many years of the statism incrementally imposed on our society by H. W. Bush, Clinton, W. Bush, and the Democrat congress we have had since 2006. And now, we have Obama and his Marxist anti-human buddies trying destroy it for all time with Obamacare, “stimulous”, “net-neutrality”, Cap and TAX, sheesh, you name it. It makes the head spin how many fronts the statist is assaulting our country. It is complete destruction that is their aim and if the Republicans don’t man up and start FIGHTING we won’t have a country left in a couple of years.

          • JC

            Obama has stabilized nothing. He is destroying the currency and the Constitution faster than Bush could ever dream it..

      • S.C.Murf

        you believe any old lie they tell you even when the numbers don’t add up right? With crap heads like you we don’t have to fear china or anyone else, hell you’ll take us down yourself.

        • http://eddie47d@gmail.com eddie47d

          Touchy! Touchy! Well, why do you always blame Obama for Bush’s failures? Put the ball in the right basket!! If it’s Clintons fault blame him.If it’s Bush’s fault blame him. If it’s Obama’s fault blame him. Got it?

      • marvin

        HFlashman
        you are a liberal if you can you say , bush done it, not my fault,obama is king ,rangel is sorry, pelosie is a great american,reid is none union,illegals are good for this country,and the flash has blown a bulb,mabe obama will take you on his, 7 vacation,

        • http://eddie47d@gmail.com eddie47d

          If you are a conservative you blame Obama for everything and ignore tagging Bush for what he had done. Stop trying to put history in a tidy little box (my side is good,your side is bad). Obama will get his spankings or rewards in due time.The same with Bush.

          • JC

            Holy Christ! That actually made sense.
            I’ll BRB. I’m going out for a smoke and to see what color the moon is. ;)

      • Joe kid

        Well said Hflashman. It really does not take
        a rocket scientist to realize that there is a
        Financial polarization going on. It has been
        reported that 70% of the wealth in America is owned
        by only 1% one the people.( the rich or should I say the filthy rich)
        I guess there must a group whose job is to make sure
        all that lovely money remains in the family.

        • lpharless2000

          Dear Joe,

          This is STILL AMERICA. No matter how much the leftists/liberals/progressives wish it wasn’t. And God knows they are doing their best to change it.

          However, as long as America remains the country she is, it is perfectly okay for anyone, no matter how rich, to hang on to their money as long as it was honestly earned.

          Are you suggesting that the Obama administration appoint someone or some group of people who’s job it is to decide who may keep their earnings and who cannot?

          • Leon

            lpharless2000 You have it right on thank you! You never see a poor man employ to many people. Most poor want a handout, there would be no handouts if the rich are taxed to a point where they move their businesses oversees. when this happens everyone losses. We have cheaper products to buy but no jobs to generate income. So let’s punish the rich and the government has to get it’s money from the poor that doesn’t have a job. THAT WILL WORK OUT WELL!!

    • http://Windows Guest

      OOH! But HE did so something! He has purposely BANKRUPTED AMERICA!
      With two years left, you can be assured that the citizens will be
      totally bankrupt – all except HIS followers! Every move is for one
      purpose – the destruction of America and the sooner the better in his estimation .What utter fools we peasants are!

    • castaway

      Obama simply did what anyother president would have done, and nothing more. He is definitly a loser!

      • http://eddie47d@gmail.com eddie47d

        So you are saying most Presidents would have done the same thing.Interesting,for that makes them all loosers. Which could mean we are a looser nation.

      • JC

        Thay all do what they’re told…”That’s the problem”.

    • kommanderkaput

      HEY JOE, The Volt is ludicrous – 40 miles to a charge – and it takes a TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF ELECTRICITY TO CHARGE IT. It will effectively force electric companies to burn more coal to produce the increased demand for electricity. Wow – that will “Save the Planet”. What a shallow farce.

      As for Governmental Motors (GM) – has anyone mentioned that the only way these guys are staying affloat is that Obama has promised to give them a multi-billion dollar TAX BREAK !! Basically make them tax exempt for the next few years !! Does Ford get that same tax break ??
      Ford will survive even though the administration will probably make them pay GM’S SHARE OF TAXES.

      All things are not even. GM is being propped up.
      The only real “change” we have is in our pockets – what’s left after Obama has ransacked the collective piggy bank.

    • castaway

      No, we cannnot give this loser a break, just because he did what anyother president would have done. He did nothing ground breaking or unusual and just followed the advise of those who hold his reigns.

    • Milena

      I would leave the tender moment alone if I only had the feeling that he did it for the country. But I am afraid he did it half for the country, half for the oil industry. Why we gave GM money without a term to produce the electric car when we had such a power over it? It would break us off the oil dependency. That is one. Second: Our cars are high on gas. Twice or three times higher than most of Europeans or Japanese. Oil companies would not let us off the hook. Oil supported GM because the more cars like this, the more oil demand. And third: yes, it was good for the unemployment, but that is not the first reason GM is still alive.
      Sorry I am a blind defender of the electric car and that is because we can produce electricity home and break off the war for oil. I feel for every mother lost a child in Iraq.

  • Tom Houchin

    I have had about all I can stomach of this too far right rag which is determined to make anything our President does appear wrong, and this is detrimental to our Country. My next move is to unsubscribe!

    • http://None Ram

      We really need more ———— like you!!

      • Milena

        Mind your speech. “Brain dead idiot” is a name calling. Hello, administration of the site, where are you. I flag this post.

    • Bob Wire

      I understand Tom, ~ but didn’t leave, ~

      I feel the same way some time. But I think it’s important to understand just how low they can go. ~ I need the constant reminder and know it’s so, was it is unbelievable some people can actually harbor these thoughts and feelings while feeling justified with them. !!!!!

      I use these forum as a PEP Rally before I attack each work day, I enjoy being fore warned of the insanity!

      I’ve got a big pencil , final say and have learned to apply it when necessary. I live in a SEA of GOP faithfuls here is North Texas. There is much work to do, many minds to change and spank them if they don’t.

      • JRC

        Right on,
        I am always appalled by the outright hate, self righteousness and the contempt this people have for the office of the president of the US, the people of this country (unless the people subscribe to they’re insanity) and this country overall. And I am amazed those guys have the guts to call them self “”real Americans”” and “”patriots”” and at the same time call on “”God”” and profess they are christians.. All I see are people that are a hairs with away from treason, acting just like the Taliban ( minus the violence but hey, enough call for it every day and it still may happen) and in they’re hate and religious zeal have forgotten even the most basic commands of they’re faith.

        • confused

          For the record, GOD does not expect anyone to blindly follow the president just because he is president. GOD gave us all or so I thought the ability to know right from wrong. Also, for the record I love America, I would just love it more if it were run like a business that stays in a budget. You and I are expected to live in our means, so why should the government live outside their means. If we are to borrow money it is with the knowledge that we are going to be able to pay it, the government has only one way to pay what it owes, that is to bill the people of the USA, and I am sorry without jobs nobody is able to pay.

        • Bob Wire

          That’s the attitude JRC !

          accept what you must, change what you can, but never give up and never quit.

          If my neighbor goes down, I can never be accused of not getting involved or not caring.

        • S.C.Murf

          our pres is a puppet as were the one’s before him. It doesn’t matter left or right it is being done to bring America to it’s knees. Even a God fearing dad will do about anything to feed his starving kids, then they will have control of America. As it stands now there are to many weapon’s and to many stubborn Americans, so it’s going to take a little longer, but it will happen.

        • Vigilant

          JRC blurts, “I am always appalled by the outright hate, self righteousness and the contempt this people have for the office of the president of the US…”

          Au contrare, my leftist friend. The conservatives have the utmost respect for the OFFICE of the POTUS. It’s the person currently occupying the office that deserves all the scorn. Where were you when your compatriots were showing their “self righteousness and the contempt” for the previous administration?

          Did you know that when Reagan had to work in the Oval Office at night, he would put on coat and tie because of his reverence for the Office? Contrast that with what Clinton did in the Oval Office and you’ll see the difference between how Conservatives and liberals perceive that office.

          • Bob Wire

            “The conservatives have the utmost respect for the OFFICE of the POTUS. It’s the person currently occupying the office that deserves all the scorn. ”

            and you somehow feel required and justified to “respectfully” give scorn?

            Well if it was done in some “respectful” manner there would be no conflict in such a statement.

            As it stands, it fails to float or ring clear and true. As you place yourself above the office of the POTUS, knowing more then he, wiser then he, more noble then he, despite your lacking in daily briefings,experience, resources, access to counsel, education, or popular mandate.

            So tell me another one.

          • Vigilant

            “As it stands, it fails to float or ring clear and true. As you place yourself above the office of the POTUS, knowing more then he, wiser then he, more noble then he, despite your lacking in daily briefings, experience, resources, access to counsel, education, or popular mandate.

            “So tell me another one.”

            Every person in America is “above the office of the POTUS,” and the Congress, and the courts, unless you think we work for the government and not vice-versa. Even Truman said he was raised in stature in leaving office, because he rose from a servant (POTUS) to private citizen.

            Wiser and more experienced am I, I have no doubt. Unless you think that holding two jobs as a kid, 24 years in the Air Force, 14 years as a senior financial analyst in NATO, operating a business and picking up two university degrees in the process doesn’t count for experience and education. I’ve been around for 64 years on this earth and have learned from my mistakes, taking counsel from the real world.

            Not that it makes any difference, but yes, I descend from nobility, and my ancestors fought in every war from the Revolution to present day. Don’t shoot off your mouth until you have some background on a person.

            So YOU tell me another one.

        • lpharless2000

          Any thinking person in America would question Obama’s real American patriotic stance.

          Everytime it comes to saying the “Pledge of Allegiance” and we have to watch him turn his back on the flag and refuse to place his right hand over his heart, we question his patriotism.

          His much touted refusal to wear and American flag lapel pin, makes us question his patriotism.

          I mean, who in America wouldn’t at least wonder? Well, except those who are so slobberingly in love with the man himself that they are blind to his actions and deaf to his words.

        • JC

          So JRC, you expect “Patriotic Americans” to respect the government even when it completely violates every principle our country was founded on? Even when it becomes despotic and operates with brute force? Even when it perverts our justice system and ignores the safety of Americans living near the border? Even when it chooses to devalue our currency and rob us all of our hard earned profits? Even when it takes a State to a World Court for enforcing Constitutional law? And on and on…

          Sir that is not Patriotism. That is Loyalism which is more akin to a serfdom than it is to a proud and free people.

          What you seem to want is “Loyalism” and Loyalists are what we drove into the sea in order to create these United States.

    • 45caliber

      Adios and good riddance.

    • Dagney

      Don’t let the door slam you in the rear as you go!

      Do I hate? Yes, I hate Marxism, collectism, statism, communism, leftism (whatever you care to call it), and the ignorance engendered by these ideologies. It is evil and it MUST be uprooted from the country. It steals the life out of people and their country. It is unAmerican and I LOVE this country as it was FOUNDED.

      The left HATES this country as it was founded, HATES capitalism, self-interest, and everything that has made this country great. You see the evidence of this with posters here on this site.

      The left thinks the government has the right to steal a person’s productivity and the fruits thereof to give to another, not even considering that the American people, mostly people on the right are the most generous people in the world. Why wouldn’t we be? We have a country where the poorest has a car, cell phones, and two televisions!

      I don’t see as much HATE on the right as I do on the left, so please, you lefties do leave this site. The right LOVES this country and will FIGHT for it. The left is fighting to destroy it.

      One last thought, please tell me how many dissenters CAPITALISTS have murdered? As BOB WIRE said above, “There is much work to do, many minds to change and spank them if they don’t.” What do you REALLY think “spank them” means if the left reaches their goals? Hmmmmm?????

      • Vigilant

        Bravo Dagney!

      • http://eddie47d@gmail.com eddie47d

        Dagney; There are plenty of scoundrels on the Capitalist side who have taken from America and helped destroy it. So don’t be so cocky!

        • Dagney

          And this has exactly what to do with MASS MURDER? No one is perfect. However, comparing white collar crime that is dealt with by the RULE OF LAW that used to exist unless and until the Democrats are allowed to define it, is quite different from the atrocities commited the world over and back through time by statists. There is no comparison!

      • Donald

        I can’t keep track of the number of coal miners murdered in this country because the greedy mine owners wouldn’t build safety into their mines because it might cost a little money.

        • Milena

          There. I am convinced that the oil industry killed the electric car and forced us into the war in Iraq. How many people died there? Pardon me but you ignore one feature of the rich and so generous (after you): greed for more. No matter how much they have, they still want more. And no, they are by far not as generous as you think they are. You may hate communism and all the rest because you fear for your riches but it does not mean we are all like you. This country thanks God is still free (as much as it could be) and thanks God there are people who have unions that would make you a little less greedy.If you were so generous, there would be no unions needed.

          • Vigilant

            “There. I am convinced that the oil industry killed the electric car and forced us into the war in Iraq. How many people died there?”

            You wouldn’t happen to have any proof of that, would you?

            News Flash for you: the electric car is not dead.

            Another (old) news flash: Those were UN Security Coucil resolutions (in the teens), not oil industry mandates, that Hussein ignored at his own peril.

            Was it about oil? You’re damned right it was! It’s the lifeblood of Iraq, and deposing Hussein now allows for the refurbishment of that industry so badly neglected under his regime.

            How many died? How about hundreds of thousands of Kurds gassed to death, and untold thousands of Iraqi citizens tortured, killed or maimed by Hussein?

            You can be as convinced as you want to be. Try using a little research and factual backup and you might come to understand that the world is not some vast right wing conspiracy to retard progess.

        • Claire

          donald–and I agree with you.

      • Karolyn

        Dagney – Just the words coming out of your mouth say much about what you see: Hate and evil are words that you conservatives like to use about people who do not believe as you do. Who made you so almighty that you can place such blanket judgment on people whose only “sin” is not agreeing with you? I am serious; I REALLY don’t get it. Those two words are words that I never use. They have no place in the vocabulary of anybody who sees this world as a whole and each one of us a tiny part of that whole. They especially do not belong in descriptions of AMERICANS who disagree with you and who love this country just as much as you do, if not more (as in those who CHOOSE citizenship.)

        • lpharless2000

          Dear Karolyn,

          You seem to have your facts backwards. It is the left constantly harping about how they “hate” Sarah Palin and denigrating her every move to no end.

          It is the left who calls the Tea Party and the Republicans “haters and raciest” as well.

          It is the left who call the Republican Party the party of “no.”

          It was a left winger in congress, Alan Grayson, who blurted out that the only plan Republican’s had for health reform was, “To die quickly!”

          I could go on, and on, and on, and, on, but what would be the point? You can either choose to recognize the truth or you can choose to ignore it.

          • Karolyn

            You cannot refute what I see written and posted here! Even when I myself try to make a point, I’m met with ridicule and derogatory remarks. If this site is any indication of how the conservatives view others, then that speaks for itself. Neither I nor any of my like-minded friends spews hate and anger the way I see it spewn here. And we don’t label ourselves either. If I had to label myself, I wouldn’t know what the label would be, as UI do have views that conflict with the left as well as the right, although I do lean left.

          • JC

            Karolyn…seems to me you’ve lived your life, like a candle in the wind….confused much?

            I can’t speak for everyone, but my impression is that conservatives aren’t hate filled…they simply despise communists.
            Largely due to having a firm set of morals based on God’s or natural law and a belief in the Constitution. All of which the Commies want to destroy…and for that, they’ve earned our enmity.

          • Vigilant

            “You cannot refute what I see written and posted here! Even when I myself try to make a point, I’m met with ridicule and derogatory remarks.”

            Good God, little girl, grow up! Virtually every poster here is met with ridicule and derogatory remarks. Doesn’t matter which side of the question you’re on. Hint: not everything is about YOU…

        • truesoy

          Karolyn,

          I agree with you. But you should understand it is the way they behave once their twisted and doctored ‘facts’ are exposed for what they are, then they turn to personal attacks. That’s who they are, and no one can change that.

    • marvin

      Tom Houchin
      DON,T LET THE DOOR HIT YOU IN THE ASS AS YOU LEAVE

    • castaway

      Good riddance lefty!

    • Leon

      Tom If you agree with and approve of what Obama is doing. You must be looking for handouts. Just name one thing he has done for America! He has shown his contempt for America time after time!

  • Teresa

    Has already proven WHY the President bailed out GM…we already know it will NOT produce American jobs in the long run. It did however grease the palms of his union buddies and help aid his political control. Enough said!

    • HFlashman

      Teresa…you said enough. Enough that everyone knows you can’t think anything through and recite nothing but the lies, mistruths, and far fetched hyperbole of the bought and paid for by the foreign and domestic finaciers GOP.

      • 45caliber

        flash:

        Quit trying to blame her for what you do all the time.

      • Teresa

        oh really, because I gave you the facts…not only once but twice…hmmm, you can discredit me all you want, but the fact still remains WHY Obama bailed out GM and YOU choose to follow him

      • castaway

        I think you should crawl up Obamas exhaust pipe and die. That would rid us all of two fools with one turd.

    • 45caliber

      You are correct. What GM really needs to break even is a sharp reduction in union costs – which they aren’t getting. And even though there isn’t anything said, I still wonder if the U.S. isn’t bankrolling a lot of the GM payroll.

    • Donald

      Jobs are jobs whether held by union members or not. People are now working at GM and that is a good thing. In a couple years, the government will be out of the auto business. Strange that the government did a better job of managing GM than GM did.

      • castaway

        The strange thing here is the government is not managing GM. New managment is.

        • Milena

          Which hopefully is less corrupt than the old one and would not sell us all.

        • JC

          Management ran companies under Hitler too…and did exactly as they were told.

      • David

        D you are missing one major fact: Since the unions are so inefficient (takes twice as many people to do the same job as in privately help industry) it makes them unable to innovate and add value. GM is paying them way too much when factoring in benefits, retirement pensions, etc. It’s obvious that it is unsustainable because people are buying more car for less money elsewhere.

        • David

          Should say “privately held”

        • Warrior

          And now the chinese can build them cheaper and export them back to us, we pick up big tariffs and the union get’s more profit. This is going to work out just fine.

      • Vigilant

        “In a couple years, the government will be out of the auto business.”

        How’d you like to make a little wager on that?

        The taxpayers are STILL owed $32 BILLION. Share price is not high enough to sustain any substantial payback of that money for quite a number of years.

        Then there’s the Chevy Volt. What a winner! It costs $40,000 to build (thanks, among other things, to exorbitantly high union labor)and they will sell it for $41,000. Not very good return on your money for a car that only the upper middle class will be buying.

        “Strange that the government did a better job of managing GM than GM did.”

        I wouldn’t call stiffing the bondholders in an illegal move “good Management.” I wouldn’t call buying off the unions and forcing the taxpayers to pay higher taxes for government largesse “good management.”

        If the government managed ANYTHING better than the private sector, with very few exceptions, then we wouldn’t be in the financially untenable position we find ourselves in. Government is ALWAYS the problem, rarely if ever the solution.

  • http://aol Bo Kassa

    Sounds like a “pat yourself on the back” for the Government Motors company. As expected a bail out for big business at the expense of the individual.Obama’s way. We live here (USA) not in China!!! I’ll never buy another GM car or truck in my lifetime. Ford did not bow to socialistic enticements of Obama and I will support their true American business ethic.

    • Bob Wire

      sound reasoning ? twisted loyalty, no forgiveness

      You fight a twisted fight

      • Warrior

        Remember those days when one could buy an American made television? Boy those were good times.

        • 45caliber

          Well, the only “American made” car is now Toyota! None of GM or Ford’s products are really American made any more.

        • Donald

          You still can! Buy Vivos.

        • http://none Mike

          Warrior, When I was growing up we had a Zenith television 26in consoul model. Lasted 15 years and was far ahead of its time with stero speakers and colorbright tubes. We had a westinghouse fridge and heat and air unit that just wouldent die. And my dad drove a 66 F-100 pu with the stright 6 300 motor that to this day still runs like a top. Thoes days are gone now with the disposeable products that are manufactred now the best you can hope for is about 2 years without major problems. Mike L.

          • Warrior

            Yea, and remember when American Companies ran those teary eyed commercials during Christmas time? Oops, did I just use a bad word?

          • http://none Mike

            Christmas How dare you mention christmas. :) Didnt you know thats not P.C anymore you might offend some godless heathens out there. With That lets just remind everyone the reason for the seaso His name is Jesus Christ. You cant have CHRISTmas without him. Mike L.

      • David

        BW it is a fight between good and evil….or is that good and lazy?

    • castaway

      Ford was very lucky. Yet you would not mind selling America out and buying a toilet. Japanese for Toyota! Everyone who buys foreign including me is in some way a backstabber. Lets all put a stop to it and change things for the better. Demand American Made Products.

      • David

        You mean close the borders, chop the head off of NAFTA, allow unions to grow rapidly, that’s all we need for that hyper inflation. I am all for buy American but we have ALOT of legislative/regulative issues that make it impossible to compete. So we move our factories overseas. Most of the crap (such as appliances) coming from China are cheaper but the cost to pay the repairman out weighs building right the first time.

      • Dan az

        Castaway
        I’ll buy american when the companies come back to this side of the fence or where there should be one.the largest employers are toyota and honda they are keeping the jobs here.And by the way when was the last time you had a car that got 47 miles to the gallon and has 350.000 miles on it that still runs as good as the day you bought it?When I was in the union the problem that I saw was specialized people they only where aloud to know one thing!The same goes for Doctors that is what is wrong with this concept the right hand dosent know what the left hand is doing.The unions where needed along time ago and they have out stay there welcome its time to send them packing if we are to industrialize this nation.We did it once before and we can do it again.Gm is now using slave labor in all of its cars and I dont think any of you libs out there feel their pain do ya?The fact of the matter is We All Are Being Duped by this usurper and playing in to the NWO hands its now time to take a stand its only up to you!

    • Milena

      Let me remember you that Ford operates in Czech Republic. Your Beloved America gets nothing out of Ford. America goes down because the big “generous” business was exported abroad. That made our deficit big and unemployment raises up and we are pretty much dieing economically.

  • A. Collins

    So based on your antagonism (appropriate I believe) toward the Obama administration and your view that the recovery of this company is providing jobs overseas, you desire to see the demise of this US auto maker that does provide many many US jobs and does a tremendous amount of R&D that benefits this country and you would have the US citenzry buy vehicles from Toyota? Buying vehicles from overseas companies sends this money back to their countries of origin. Although there are plants n the US building these foreign vehicles the majority of the content assembled in these plants comes from overseas. Thus the American worker is being used to provide overseas jobs. Because the domestic auto companies use more domestic content, there are many more US jobs per car sold than in the foreign cars sold. So rather than bashing GM because it seems to be the POLITICALLY correct thing to do, it would seem to be appropriate to desire to see them succeed so that they could get any vestiges of government ownership out of the company.

    • Vigilant

      Most of the liberals on this site, and in general, will continually drone about the loss or outsourcing of jobs to overseas areas, and they invariably blame the GOP for that. It doesn’t matter a whit that it was overtaxation, over-regulation and environmentalist roadblocks that caused this to happen; it somehow mysteriously ends up (as always) to be the fault of the Republicans.

      Where is the outcry now that the taxpayers are aiding and abetting that outsourcing by being forced to subsidize GM?

      • http://eddie47d@gmail.com eddie47d

        Should we talk about all the tax breaks the oil companies receive.My! My! Some of them don’t even pay any taxes. Which means you and I have to come up with the difference. Maybe the whole system has been corrupted; but just maybe these tax breaks are important and tax dollars for GM is important. At least saving GM saves jobs and a small portion of the economy. When tax breaks are given to corporates they lay people off and move their business overseas and that would also be on our dime. So should our tax dollars stay in America to support American workers or go outside our country to support foreign workers? I realize GM could be doing just that (building more plants in China). That would be wrong.

    • castaway

      Ford,GM, and Chrysler build cars from almost entirely foreign made parts. Ford is the worst one for that. You drive a Mazda and think you have a Ford pickup. LMAO The crappiest car company on the planet, Fiat, now owns Chrysler and bought it for its technology in transmissions and engines. Fiat builds junk. GM will make it, because they import most of the parts and whole cars from their plants around the world.

      In addition to this your government cares so much about you, they are now going to allow China to export cars to the USA. Smart huh?!!

      • David

        We used to make parts for Ford and GM but they left us years ago for Chian and Brazil. Thank God this wasn’t our bread and butter.

      • JC

        And they went overseas because? Of rapacious taxation and globalism.
        We need to entice them home right after the Fed burns to the ground. :)

  • rosina

    But, it is True as Kinetic 1 has said above, that IT WAS GEORGE BUSH who came up with this plan and NOT the barmy one.
    So, he is basking in the REFLECTED GLORY of BUSH-whilst he plays golf and enjoys himself!
    WHAT A FAKE.

    • Karolyn

      I’d like to see you keep up with the schedule and responsibilities of any president. Do you think a President has to be constantly working and never get a break?

      • 45caliber

        A President is SUPPOSED to handle day to day functions of government. He can’t do that while taking six months a year worth of vacations and playing golf.

        From what I’ve seen he tends to hand the hard decisions off to someone else – and then claim the credit if the things done work. And if they don’t, then it’s the other person’s fault. Just like a boss I used to have.

        • Claire

          I look at things a bit different, I guess. If I were the POTUS, I would be working like a dog day in and day out until such time America was back on her feet. I would never rest, I would never give up, I would probably worry myself into an early grave.

          • JC

            No sense in the kenyan breaking a sweat Claire…everything is going just fine, as far as he is concerned.

      • libertytrain

        Actually, being somewhat of a workaholic myself, yes, I think he should be working all the time. It’s only a four year stint – no biggy. Our soldier’s – when in Afghanistan etc, don’t get Saturday and Sunday off – they get 2 weeks leave once during deployments. The rest of the time they work.

        • Milena

          or die.
          But it is interesting how you put it down. “Work” is when you produce something. Work is sometimes equal to “Create”

          • libertytrain

            I’m the mother and mother-in-law of two that recently returned. They, I assume to make it easier for me to handle, referred to it as “work” —- Nothing “interesting” meant by the word. But if you need to see something there – have at it.

          • 45caliber

            And when was the last time you ever saw a government employee or agency produce anything except more paperwork?

          • Claire

            I will never never “put down” our soldiers. And I resent anyone that does. Okay, we are in a war, look who all voted to start it!! That being said, I will not tolerate anyone that does not support our troops. I would and will gladly punch anyone in the mouth if they berate our troops or treat our troops with disrespect. Our troops have gone through hell including their families. And by gosh, when they come home, I want them to be treated fairly and squarely. We MUST take care of them. Look how our Vietnam veterans have been treated!! I remember clearly how some people treated our troops when they came back from Vietnam. I don’t want this to ever happen again.
            Our troops were sent to Iraq, and they went, they didn’t desert. I have a good friend that lost her son three years ago. She and her husband are still grieving.
            I do not support this war, I never did. It was a war that should never have happened. I despise the politcians that voted for this fiasco.
            I have had a bellyfull of these conniving politicians that create wars for their own political gain. This war has drained us financially. And for what?

        • Karolyn

          Come on! Think about the amount of stress he job of President comes with! If you think he doesn’t deserve time off, just like previous presidents, you are wrong!

          • 45caliber

            I wish he did take off “just like the previous Presidents”. That would mean he’d spend a LOT more time in Washington handling the work load.

          • libertytrain

            45caliber – nicely put.

          • Dan az

            Karolyn
            He took the job because he thought he could do it!But its obvious that he had no clue what he was doing.If you remember the cost of these vacations at one time would equal the national deficit.sure things cost more today then back then but dont you think that if he couldnt do the job then he should step down?

          • JC

            I think he deserves even more time off…25 to life sounds about right.

      • castaway

        I thought his responsiblity was running this country not taking trips around the world and grandstanding to make himself feel important while he makes a fool of all of us.———-

        • Karolyn

          ALL Presidents have to travel the world. It’s their job!

          • 45caliber

            But not every week!!

          • JC

            And bookies have to make the rounds…just business is all ;)

    • Donald

      Bush played far more golf than Obama. Check it out.

      • Dan az

        Donald
        No thats not true he gave it up while he was in office you check it out!

  • Polski

    I grew up in Detroit. General Motors is the epitome of lousy, uncaring CEOs and corporate senior executives that harmed the public and ruined the company. Remember what Roger Smith did to Flint, Michigan. Roger Smith is the worst CEO in history except for Jack Welch of General Electric. It was the senior management that ruined General Motors, NOT the unions. Also, General Motors CHEATED!! Remember the wrap around windows that they advertised on television as having no distortion, and then the Feds penalized them for outright lying and fake movies. And how about their claim that their door locks were better than Ford’s because they closed easier and you had to really slam Ford’s doors hard to get them to close. The reason was that Ford had a double lock that kept the doors closed especially in accidents, while GM had a single lock that flew open and killed people in accidents. They should have let GM DIE!!!!!

    • http://eddie47d@gmail.com eddie47d

      Thanks for another view and it was the crappy management team (CEO’s)who kept GM sliding downwards. The workers(Unions) only build the cars that management approves of and have little control of the styles that come out. The union can only put in crappy parts that management approves of also.

      • Claire

        eddie–It was the greedy union and the greedy CEOs that put GM in the mess it was in. Just like the greedy CEOs of companies, the banks, Wall Street, oil companies, etc. I keep thinking and hoping “what goes around comes around.” Perhaps these greedy no-goods will reap what they have sown. I do not wish ill on anyone but this is an example where my evil thoughts will pop up and then I wish they would suffer. Just like they made all the unemployed suffer. May God forgive me.

        • Dan az

          Claire
          I too am a chevy fan and always will be but unitll they can bring down the cost by getting these lazy unions pukes out there cars are always going to be out of my reach.Even before my dad died the last truck he bought was 9000 and he swore he would never buy another because that was to outrageous of a price.If he could see now that the same truck goes for 50.000 he would roll over in his grave.He hasnt been dead for very long now and the cost of living has climbed just as bad but the wages dont seem to adjust at all.Unless you work for the government that is.

          • Claire

            Dan az–My Chevy Impala was a demonstrator and that helped with the cost. I know what you mean about the price on cars. It is a shame. Anything and everything “Made in the USA” has a higher price, thereby forcing some people to buy the items made in a foreign country. I go out of my way NOT to purchase any item made in a foreign country. Just don’t remind me that the car parts are made in a foreign country!!

          • Claire

            Dan az– I know I have posted this before but my ’69 Camaro cost
            $3600 brand new. It sure would be nice to see those kind of prices again.

          • Dan az

            Claire
            you may not have to wait to long.If china starts making them they probably will be that price again.Z 28′s rule!

      • Vigilant

        eddie,

        “The workers(Unions) only build the cars that management approves of and have little control of the styles that come out. The union can only put in crappy parts that management approves of also.”

        I hope you remember your words when GM goes belly up trying to sell the Volt and any other car like it. UAW is now a MAJOR shareholder in the company, so when things don’t improve, who are you going to blame then?

        Oh, I forgot, it’s all Bush’s fault.

        • Dan az

          Vigilant
          I knew it had to be bush!

    • castaway

      You must be another high school drop out, union worker, making twice what you are worth,and actually getting paid for being stupid.

    • Milena

      As you said, the company is not guilty, the managers are. I agree with you on that point. So why not just put the management in jail instead of killing the company? After my personal opinion the biggest crime they committed was that they took the electric car and destroyed it. When if it was let on the market ten years ago it would have created demand of electricity and forced business to build wind mills and break us off the oil addiction. That was a crime against our nation and it was provoked by oil industry bribing the management of GM and other big car producers. Not to forget that George Bush supported that too. There would never be enough evidence but I personally think that was what happened. Otherwise I have no explanation why GM will destroy cars that were already on the road. And sell the patent of lithium batteries to Texaco- oil industry player.

      • Vigilant

        “…it would have created demand of (sic) electricity and forced business to build wind mills and break us off the oil addiction.”

        And what’s your opinion of nuclear energy?

  • Pete0097

    GM should be made to open 3 US plants for every 1 overseas one

    • castaway

      Eliminate the Unions, and that might happen to lots of companies, and then get rid of big government and we can all return to a strong and healthy America.

      • Milena

        Right. Unions are the ones that make America weak!!!
        How precisely did you come to that conclusion? Did you think when you expressed an opinion like this or did you substitute thinking with digestion instead?

        • Vigilant

          Right. Unions are the ones that make America weak!!!
          How precisely did you come to that conclusion? Did you think when you expressed an opinion like this or did you substitute thinking with digestion instead?

          How do Unions make America weak? Let me count the ways….

          A major reason for the illegal takeover of GM by the government was that the company’s liabilities for cushy Union-gained pension plans were higher than their ability to pay. And you consider $70-80 per hour fair wage for putting cars together?

          States like NY and CA are teetering on the brink of bankruptcy due to the greed of the public service unions, and that is indisputable fact.

          SEIU’s tinkering with the election process.

          Card check (“employee Free Choice Act,” that’s a laugh) would do away with the secret ballot in the workplace.

          Millions spent on teachers who cannot be trusted with students, yet cannot be fired in NY, due to Unions.

          And on and on. Unions long ago outlived their usefulness in improving workplace conditions and are now just another special-interest lobby.

          • Vigilant

            Oh, and let’s not forget that Union wages long ago helped to price US-made goods out of foreign markets. Now they’ve priced goods out of our own domestic market.

            THAT’S what I call “weakening America.”

    • Vigilant

      “GM should be made to open 3 US plants for every 1 overseas one (sic).”

      That’s your solution, MORE government intrusion into the free market?

  • Sandy Bloodworth

    Goodbye, Tom. I’m surprized you were here in the first place.

    • castaway

      He is a payed plant,as others in here are.

  • OtherTim

    The reason the big three started downhill back in the 70′s, was they had to build cheap (cheap as in 2nd rate) cars that no one wanted. Little did they realize foreign makers were ready to move in. They had huge benies to pay out to the UAW which they had no way to cover them because the foreign makers were taking a major share of the market. If GM doesn’t get back on track and make a competetive product at a reasonable price (w/o govt. support) the stock price will drop once again and be needing more taxpayer $. Large thanks to UAW demands 30 yrs. ago. It finally came home to roost. Not unlike the housing crisis. Things may look rosey at any given time, but without a strong foundation it will come crashing down. The BIG crash hasn’t occurred yet. BO had best not be bragging yet.

    • Donald

      Management’s failure to notice and keep up with changes in the market led to the downfall of the auto industry. Unions had nothing to do with it.

      • Vigilant

        You’re free to cherish as many fantasies as you’d like, but that doesn’t make you right.

        I remember very well back in the ’70s when the UAW would meet every few years to do ONE thing: to decide which major company they would strike. What was the criteria they used? Working conditions? No.

        They met to look at the “bottom line” of each auto maker. Whichever one had the healthiest balance sheet, THAT was the one they struck. It had everything to do with greed and nothing to do with their working conditions.

        Wake up to the real world. Money talks and your BS walks.

  • newspooner

    It is hypocritical for the Establishment to call the GM “revival” a success story. Remember, they essentially stole the company from the bondholders. And the stockholders got shafted too. That is the real purpose for the existence of the SEC — to impede free enterprise solutions to financial problems, approaches such as rights offerings, etc. And the fraud known as GAAP made it very difficult, if not impossible, for even an astute investor to have judged whether the old GM was a survivable investment. It would be nice if investors could count on honest and realistic accounting instead of being saddled with the inferior protocols mandated by the federal government.

    • Donald

      Yeah, we need honest accounting like Enron provided, not to mention the Banks who are to dumb to process mortgage foreclosures!

  • Bob Wire

    Never thought I’d see Anti -Business Conservatives.

    Maybe they are not really “Conservatives” ?

    If a track record means anything ~ They are not! I say a TRACK RECORD means everything, while labels only as good as the labellings.

    • Karolyn

      they’re only anti-business when it suits their purposes. Now, if we were anti GM, they would be pro!

      • 45caliber

        Not me!

      • Vigilant

        No, not anti-business. If you want to talk about free enterprise capitalism, you’re not talking about GM.

        Obama & Co. illegally bypassed the Chapter 11 bankruptcy laws to give the bondholders (normally at the top of the pyramid) absolutely nothing; they actually stole the money that was due to them.

        Secondly, the Feds made themselves a majority shareholder in the company, an unprecedented move that turns all capitalism on its head. As a taxpayer, I had no say in becoming an investor in common stock of GM.

        Thirdly, the UAW was given billions in ownership stock because their outrageous and successful demands for cushy benefits over the years placed GM in a position that it could not possibly fund the pension liabilities. It was also a payback to the unions for their perennial support of the Dems.

        Please understand that we need to back up our statements with logic and reasoning, instead of making sterotypically general assertions like Conservatives being anti-business.

        • Bob Wire

          excellent comeback Vigilant ~

          that’s the kind of banter that needed to help everyone understand this mess.

        • Bob Wire

          not that I completely agree with you or where you place all blame.

          Government is placed in the position of a man showing up at the Titanic in a small row boat, the demands exceeding supply and hard concession must be made under extra ordinary conditions.

          Since we had already saved several boat loads of Bankers first, many actually responsible for themselves being in the water, what’s a few auto assembler’s?

          And as we see today, “W” saved boatloads of Bankers but yet they feel unwilling to assist with the on going recovery of others. Leaving the Fed to go to the China man with their hat in their hand.

          It is what it is, ~ and what was done, was done by more then one man or one party or one ideology.

          Your start off on the wrong foot, it hard to ever correct your steps. But one things is for certain, the middle of the ocean is no place to decide to stop swimming.

          • Dan az

            Bob Wire
            I borrowed this part of a post that was put to you and your kind that you ignored,it just seems fitting to repost this for you again to counter your logic.
            The “Great Recession” we are still mired in is the result of big Democrat policies starting with CARTER, put on steroids by CLINTON and Janet RENO (Fannie, Freddie, Chris Dodd, Barney Fwank, and Acorn, and Barack Obama acting as lawyer on lawsuits for Acorn suing due to alledged “red-lining”). They forced lenders to give mortgages to people who had no hope of paying the money back. That the lenders tried to make these mortgages into something that would make them money is to be expected. It’s called “self-interest” (no, not the same as “selfishness”, not even close!) and keeping stock-holders happy.

  • Bernard from Michigan

    We are all ignoring our main focus of the next election. It really doesn’t matter who wins as long as we the people TAKE back our gov’t. As many have said, there is only distrust for most all of the elected officials. We obviously need to elect a conservative but as we look at the field who can we trust to be saying truth when they say they are conservative? The only one I trust that will run is Sarah Palin. Her morals and integrity are far beound anyone even closly connected to a run.

    Not to downgrade anyone but most are experienced in the National deal making as seen now that Republicans are sitting. I am a republican conservative too.

    I believe that Sarah Palin can win this next election based on her honesty (which will be torn to shreds by liberals with lies and more lies) and she is what is needed in my eyes.

    • JRC

      Sarah will say whatever she needs to make a buck, She has even less qualifications and moral standing then Obama. Moreover, she has shown she can’t take the pressure of a demanding job. She QUIT ! What part of quitter don’t you understand? And I do NOT care what excuse she is feeding the simple minded sheep out there ….fact is she quit period.
      Is that the person you want to give the responsibility for this country? You must be out of your mind.

      • castaway

        What part of quitter do YOU not understand?? You missed the entire point. She saw the slippery slope the country was on and could not do enough as a governer, so she gave up that job to “fight for America”.Acually as governer there was much she could not do. She has done a really good job at that inspite of all the detremental comments about her,and her daughter, and whatever little tidbits they can dig up.
        I sincerely hope she is our next president, as she is really down to earth, and not a career politician, so to speak.

        • Claire

          castaway–They are all career politicians and laughing all the way to the bank.

      • Leon

        I sure wish obama would quit!!!

  • Silverer

    Well, I don’t see how we can call Obama’s saving of GM a victory. It was paid for by shucking the shareholders and bondholders. It looks like the unions have a new game plan: Scream for as much as you can get, use all the political favors you can pay for, and in the end, you get to own the company. That’s a far cry from capitalism. I would argue that the unions have done their members no favors, as their record of job loss is due to trying to create too many millionaires in the rank and file. Overseas, their working counterpart is happy to make half the salary. I cannot foresee GM becoming a leader again in the industry. What do they have to sell now? How many can afford their offerings, such as the Volt? It doesn’t look good, that’s for sure.

    • Bob Wire

      “Overseas, their working counterpart is happy to make half the salary.”

      So it’s a labor issue?

      so ~? this is seen as a good thing? and we only need follow their lead?

      This would offer ~ what? an improvement somewhere to someone?

      We could decrease the size of an hour by half, making 48 hour days while keeping the hourly wage the same.

    • http://eddie47d@gmail.com eddie47d

      ” Trying to create millionaires within the rank and file” You blew that one for that distinction should be put upon the incompetent CEO’s and the management team.

  • calan

    Are the following not true?
    The Bush Administration cut taxes but went into 2 wars without a means to pay for it.

    Started T.A.R.P…..not saying it was all a bad idea…just saying.

    Moved the budget from a surplus to a deficeit.

    Millions of jobs lost on their watch as well as thw Wall Street meltdown.

    And to be fair the Obama Administration has it s problems as well.
    we got to work through this.

    Why do i hear all the lies and twisted truths coming out of the mouths of so many fro both sides.

    Let s look at things for what they are and get the country moving forward.I don t care who is right or wrong this is no time for foolish self interest,greed and hatred.

    Thank you

    • 45caliber

      One of the twisted truths is “we went from a surplus to a deficiet.”

      We never had a surplus in the first place. What we did have was less spending than estimated – but they still spent more than they took in. But to a politician, that is a surplus.

      • Warrior

        It was nice of calan to point out where all the blame lies before embarking on his peace mission.

      • Bob Wire

        “One of the twisted truths is “we went from a surplus to a deficit.”

        with out some parameters, such statements afford little meaning. You only started to say something ~ leaving yourself open from attack by all the anti- President Obama crowd.

        ~ That’s the best, most descriptive label I’ve got for them as it’s the only logic that can be abstracted. While they wish to go by many labels, Patriot, Constructionist, Conservatives, Tea Party members, GOP members, loyal Americans, A Majority,~ many self-labeled titles. But their deeds and words all carry a common bias, Hate Obama! They have made it a tag team sport of words as each one of they attempt to win praise by offering greater disrespect then the last guy.

        But the craziest notion of all is that they somehow believe in doing this tag team word bashing somehow secures their rightful place in selection process of candidates for the next general election. They feel their views, as valid and their bias just without having to truly define the true nature of them. They might claim they do, but in fact they fail too but rather attempt to supported their claims with circular reasoning, false cause and effect, comparative and contract of dissimilar things to deferred liability.

        Basically show the rest of us that their rational reasoning skills are greatly flawed by a bias that they themselves can’t articulate for reasons left unknown. But we are suppose to accept and believe them anyway! or they are going to go nasty! I’m yet to be impressed with such banter.

        As far as any “surplus”, the Democrat President Andrew Jackson gave us a surplus and restored a sense of economic prudence to Federal Government, by pulling the teeth of entrench power brokers. I’m not sure if it’s been done since. But it’s easy enough to find out. Do your own search for such answers.

        • castaway

          It will be interesting to watch if you liberals can get another 4 years for Obama. AS do most or all liberal governments, you will fail miserably in the end, and leave a horrible wreckage of a country to whomever wants it. I know for sure, Americans will not be able to reclaim their country as they will all be destitute.

          Some foreign power will be able to walk in the door and take over immediatly after you silly liberals get done. I am beginning to think we should have a very large funeral service.

          • Bob Wire

            You have just described the last chapter of 22 years of GOP leadership.

            While wanting to suggest democrats soft on defense. History proves you wrong with that notion ~ starting a early as old Hickory and goes up to Roosevelt, Truman, JFK, LBJ, Clinton to Obama. Now you are free to question that, ~ but I assure you without Clinton involvement a lot of southern Europeans would be dead today. And “O” has funded military heavy with both money and troop strength in record numbers. Look for yourself if you doubt it . Surly you know how to use your browser?

            So your assertion is completely false! A fallacy offered up by the GOP!

            Where “O” is to be a two term President or not? ~ the next two years is up for grabs, it’s true. Maybe he can buy it with Tax cuts like “W” “the war president” did.

    • http://yahoo richard

      you people keep harpping on the surplus that clinton left but he only left it by cutting the defense to the point of leaving us defenseless and bush had to use that surplus to reduild the military the same as with carter and reagan the democrats always believe if we bend over everyone will love us so we dont need a military

      • http://eddie47d@gmail.com eddie47d

        Oh,Please Richard,Then we shouldn’t have created this huge deficit by going into 2 useless wars.You made a great point about going into debt without knowing how to pay for it. Thanks.

      • Donald

        We have enough nuclear bombs to blow up the world. so, how are we defenseless?

      • castaway

        In his last month of office, clinton forgave $56million in debt owed to the US. I read that in a news paper,heard it on the evening news and read it on the internet.

  • UncleOtto

    A Typical case of Cause and Effect:
    Government implements FREE TRADE AGREEMENTS throughout all administrations, the ‘Big Sucking Sound’ is heard’ Joblessness occurs, Government intervenes, the fox is put in charge of the chickens.
    Some sober thoughts on Free trade.

    If the congress critters were serious about creating jobs, they would declare the free trade agreements were responsible for the joblessness we see today. The field of dreams has turned into a nightmare. Even the State Governors should encourage, publicly, the national reps to do so if they are serious. Government jobs do not help the economy. The TSA is a good example, a Govt. agency off the wall. That kind of Nazi nonsense could create a revolution in itself.

    Karl Marx advocated Free Trade, because:
    (a) Whereas Protection builds up the nation-state, Free Trade breaks it down, as a prelude to the creation of a world-state by the Capitalists
    (b) Free Trade breaks down traditional culture, as a prelude to the creation of a world culture
    (c) Free Trade exacerbates class warfare, and through this the Capitalists will lose control of the world-state – they will be defeated by the impoverished classes, with the help of their backers in the higher classes.

    But, generally speaking, the Protective system in these days is conservative, while the Free Trade system works destructively. It breaks up old nationalities and carries antagonism of proletariat and bourgeoisie to the uttermost point. In a word, the Free Trade system hastens the Social Revolution. In this revolutionary sense alone, gentlemen, I am in favor of Free Trade.
    Signed: Karl Marx

    First published in French as a pamphlet at the beginning of February 1848

    So Marx and Engels clearly knew that Free Trade might worsen the lot of the lower classes, but advocated it anyway, as a means to achieving a World State. They were prepared to endorse an evil means, to achieve what they saw as a worthy end.

    • Warrior

      Hmmm? And isn’t that nice that China can be a stakeholder in GM. Hey, maybe the UAW can set up shop in China and get some of those benefits for the Chinese workers or not. Anyway, if the Chinese can make em cheaper and export em to us uncle scam can place a big tariff tax on it and we’ll have some extra money to spend on stuff.

    • Bob Wire

      Hmm? well a good day for the snake is a bad day for the frog.

      The wording has to ascend beyond good and bad or work and don’t work.

      Otherwise, it all a sand castle of dreams to be washed away by incoming tides leaving only memory to recall the vision.

      fast nickels, slow dimes? ~ margins time/$???.

      Some people you don’t want to try to work for or sell too, while some you can afford to work for, do business with even with low margins.

      Some demand wholesale pricing with a retail dance, guarantees that it won’t rust, bust or collect dust.

      The planned obsolesce, the disposable , throw away society,

      We have developed these human needs and behaviors into a science.

      I was about to enter school when I seen my very first plastic ball point click pen. Even plastic was a new thing back then (1954). The wildest thing was ~ when they quite writing, you threw them away! WOW ! why! can’t you fix them?

      Throwing things away was a new concept for most us in 1954.

      Boy ! have we ever ~ changed as a nation since then.

      I like our old ways much better, when a “Name” mean something, stood for something.

      It’s hard to compete and not change with the time. It’s been a process of compromise while attempting to hold tight to old values and not illusions of values.

      • Warrior

        And my dad can still beat up your dad!

        • Bob Wire

          yea , well glad you still got one, ~ a lump in the carpet can put mine on his ass.

          • Warrior

            Actually, I don’t. Dead for 18 years.

          • Bob Wire

            HMM? well, mines next on the glory road train, holding a ticket in the doom car. We never were friends but I’ll miss him no less. It will be good to remember only the good and let the bad fall away.

      • http://eddie47d@gmail.com eddie47d

        We have deliberately become a throw away society to keep the economy afloat.

        • http://none Mike

          Eddie, One sentance says so much. Yes we have and I wonder if we dug just underneth the surface if that wasent a plan stright out of the 70′s.But we are just supposed to belive that its the price we pay for tecnology advances. Mike L.

  • Delores Smith

    JOHN MYERS – ANOTHER EXCELLENT ARTICLE – Thank you…
    OBAMA,
    I am not interested in anything that you own 36% of. You are either out of touch with reality or you have a piece missing. May I suggest that someone teach you checkers. You could never handle chess. Basketball is out. You have to keep your lip away from elbows.
    Delores Smith
    Delores109@ cox.net

    • Bob Wire

      Is there much traffic on that one way street you live on Delores?

      I attacked a MP with my ear once, I used my ear to beat him up! I liked to have destroyed his night stick!

      At least that’s the way it was presented and sold.

      I think you are entitled to believe anything you want to. While I’m entitle to laugh at you.

      You may suggest anything you wish but life is truly a two way street and if absurdity by chance happens your way , you too may laugh

      • castaway

        Well speaking of obsurdity, I am laughing my butt of, because we have a “—— for president”, but he can only run left. LMAO

        • Warrior

          Ah, who cares? Did you realize Harry Reid has never been invited to Camp David? We’ll have to fix that!

      • castaway

        Bob that is the whole point of oneway streets, they cut down on traffic, and control it, we passed civil rights laws and can no longer control the traffic flow.

        • Bob Wire

          half jungle bunny if you please, and having little to do yet everything about whats not important. and while I live on a two ways street, I’m willing to understand and accept the fact others don’t.

          I can deal with it ~ I just wish other could as well.

  • ALFRED E. NEUMAN

    The American People are truly what Michael Moore the Communist (Capitalist)said about them:”THEY ARE POSSIBLY THE DUMBEST PEOPLE ON THE PLANET”!
    THAT HAS TO BE TRUE,LOOK AT THE FRAUD ELECTED AS PRESIDENT, AND THE FURTHER FRAUDS ELECTED TO THE CONGRESS!

  • Prince1

    As a former GM dealer and 47 years in the business, 30 as a dealer, I witnessed the slow death of General Motors, with the UAWapplying a steady dose of arsenic. Granted, the management of GM drank the coolaid being served, because they didn’t have much of a choice. Do you rememeber the long strikes, and strike threats every three years?
    I do!!!!!, and so did my 135 employees.
    It is inconceivable the Barak Obama had the gaul to demand Rick Wagonner’s resignation. Wagonner really worked hard to bring costs down, but the legacy costs he inherited ultimately became too great to overcome. Wagonner was a business man, intelligence and empathy were his best traits. Obama never ran a lemonaid stand. Actually, he really never ran anything, except his mouth.
    Rick had to go!!!! Henderson had to go!!! The telephone man came in and saved the day. First thing he did was go on television. Didn’t know what he was talking about, but he was talking. This worked well with Obama, because that is what he does, go on TV and talk.
    Results????? Please!!!!! Notice how the GM volume is increasing? It is not there. However, GM is doing great in China. Big woops!!!!
    Incidentally, Obama didn’t save the American auto industry. Actually,
    he enabled GM to fund its Chinese operations. What happened to the 200,000 auto workers union members?? Maybe Obama can get them jobs as community organizers, or better yet, he can go on TV and tell them that he saved their industry.
    How much did the union make with GM’s IPO???? Are they going to give any of that money to the bond holders that they and Obama screwed over?
    When Pelosi and the Dems took over the house, that is when the economy began to crumble. We can thank Barney Frank and Senator Dodd for that. Bush told them that Fannie and Freddie needed attention. Barney was more interested in the TSA groping policies rather than banking and lending policies.
    Obama is still blaming Bush, who incidentally, has remained the gentlemen, never once has he commented on Obama’s policies. Didn’t have to, the only ones that worked were the policies that Bush instituted.
    November 3 was a bell ringer. Now the Republicans need to come up with a front runner who can finish the race.
    What ever happened to George Allen??? A Romney/Allen, or Romney/Rubio, or Romney/Cristi, or Romney/Thune.
    Romney is a business man, a financial wizard and a good family man.
    I believe that if came out and said that his Massachuttes Medical Plan turned out to be a bust, he will win. He should say that in retrospect his plan didn’t make the cut. Of all people, he now knows how to fix or replace Obama care, with free market principles.

    • marvin

      Prince1
      well said ,i said the same thing you can not let the unions tell the employer how to run their company,trouble is unions like are goverment think we work for them, WRONG,

    • Teresa

      very well said and my prayers to you and your family

    • castaway

      Excellent post, and I will copy and save it. You stated the truth and nothing but.

    • Warrior

      I don’t know Prince if I believe your story. How come I never heard any of this through the LSM??? Why I’m sure this is absolutely something that Diane Sawyer could sink her teeth into. Or maybe I could get you on Jon Stewart or the View.

  • http://com i41

    Why don’t Tom Tune, Flushman, Bob Wire,calan, rosy, realize things went to hell in the economy, when socialist democrats took the reins in Congress. Total trashed the enoonomy and destryed what jobs there were. When they acheived supermajority and the chocolate marxist muslim moron were elected by simple minded bastards, who were to lazy to read up on the socialist marxist pukes. Socialists acceived their life long goal of the National Marxist Communist Democrat Union Party and the Nazi supporter monied man Soros. Soros is the string puller on all democrats and enviors groups. Soros uses the morons that vote for his slate, like a used tampon, use and toss, when uneducated masses preform the use needed to destroy the USA. We could of been out of debt and putting money in the Tresury if the NMCDUP smucks had not sowallerd this envior crap, like windmills, battery powered matchbox cars, and more wasteful f–king wilderness areas. The claim USA doesn’t have any crude oil, what a a bunch of bull. In western SD by Bear Butte, a wild catter just sunk a well and hit oil at 850′. and is putting in another 23 wells. So you socialist s–t birds cut the damn envior crap and let private companies get to work. Making our economy grow and quit sending money to the marxist muslim moron pedophile worshipping crossbrd bros. Democrats have always wanted total government control over everything, inclusing what you eat drive and think, a dictatorship is the height of accomplishment. We could have had plenty of fuel, if the damn sorry a$$ed democrats hadn’t sat on the Stansbury report of crude. That was put out in 4-2006, when fuel was over $4 a gallon. No thre smurfs waste money in the hearing on oil companies were in the vogue. Millions were pissed away in commissons and hearings, nothing was accomplished. Just like the commison to figure how to cut our debt, the 2 head clowns who headthe deeby commission, went back to their last pay checks from the taxpays, and nothing is accomplished. It is real simple, quit throwing taxpayers money at rat holes and cut the worthless staffs and agencies. All democrap clowns that work for the government and shuffle papers. As well as buy in to the wanting of global treaty with the UN, which ther UN offical said is nothing but redistribution of wealth. Dumbocrap Party= Soros the Socialist one worlder!

    • kommanderkaput

      i41, you sound pretty jaded, but I must say, Soros is truly behind the wrecking of the economy – towards this end: an all encompassing 1-WORLD GOVERNMENT.
      HE PULLS THE STRINGS, with the aid of a tremendous amount of money.

  • marvin

    WHEN WE ALL BUY THE VOLT and the $40,000 car, batters start going bad in 2,or 3 years and you have to pay $5,000 to replace them,we will all be sanging oh what a wonderful green world we have,you think gas is high now the fed are wanting a road tax hike on per gal now,i will say one good thing about OBAMA he has woke up the sleeping voters,that are tired of having their pockets picked, by un elected and appointed czars,the way to do that is fire their boss,VOTE COME NOV 2012,YOU CAN NOT FIX STUPED,you replace it

    • 45caliber

      Instead of a fuel tax on electric cars, they want a “road tax” for ALL cars in addition to the fuel tax. The GPS in the new cars is designed to flash your milage to receiver posts they plan to set up. You will get a monthly road tax based on the number of miles you drive. It will REALLY be nice for Texas and other states where you have to drive up to fifty miles one way to work. Further, they want it to give them points where the map says you speeded or ran a stop sign. To get out of paying such a ticket, you would have to prove the stop sign was taken out for a stop light years ago or that the map shows the wrong speed limit.

  • barbm

    seems to me that we the people need to take some responsibility. everybody wants to stop helping other countries, keep our money and our jobs here, but nobody wants to back it with their money. i drive an american made car and always will. i believe you should dance with the one that brought you to the ball. buy american whenever possible. like it or not, we own stock in the companies, so why would you do otherwise? and i have not yet heard of the brakes not working or some strange acceleration that kills people on a saturn. breaks my heart that they aren’t making them any more because i LOOOOOVE my car. next one will be a ford since they never asked for a bailout.

    • kommanderkaput

      I too, will stick with FORD from now on !!

    • castaway

      No need to buy foreign if you buy Ford, because they are mostly, and in most cases 100% foreign made,for the dumb Americans, as we are called world wide. Sorry Barb, but it seems to be a never ending lose lose situation.

      • barbm

        regardless of where the parts are made, they are assembled here and an american company makes most of the profit.

        • Claire

          barbm— Good point.

  • dhellew2

    Give me a billion dollars of tax payers money and I’ll be a successful billionaire. The fact that I didn’t have to do anything to get it, like NObama Motors doesn’t matter, does it?

    What about NObama Motors big lie… the one where they said they paid their loan but left out the fact that they used TARP (tax payer) money.

    What about the fact that government employees don’t contribute to the tax base that pays their salary, that the deductions from their pay are just a ruse to trick them into thinking they pay taxes? No matter how you disguise it you cannot pay taxes with taxes.

    It is business as usual for NObama Motors, the same with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, their practices cause the problems and they were bailed out and left to continue ‘business as usual’.

    Talk about hypocrisy, NObama preaches carbon while NObama Motors just came out with one of the biggest pickup trucks in history, what gives?

    • kommanderkaput

      That’s true dhellew2, and to that I would add my previous post:

      The Volt is ludicrous – 40 miles to a charge – and it takes a TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF ELECTRICITY TO CHARGE IT. It will effectively force electric companies to burn more coal to produce the increased demand for electricity. Wow – that will “Save the Planet”. What a shallow farce.

      As for Governmental Motors (GM) – has anyone mentioned that the only way these guys are staying affloat is that Obama has promised to give them a multi-billion dollar TAX BREAK !! Basically make them tax exempt for the next few years !! Does Ford get that same tax break ??
      Ford will survive even though the administration will probably make them pay GM’S TAXES.

      All things are not even. GM is being propped up.
      The only real “change” we have is in our pockets – what’s left after Obama has ransacked the collective piggy bank.

      • 45caliber

        GM can make a good electric car but won’t. See my comments on it below.

    • castaway

      They are giving Americans what Americans always want, the biggest and the bestest. LMAO

  • SuthnXPosR

    Oboma has not accomplishesd even one profitable thing for this country. The rederic he spews about GM is deceptive. One with any knowledge of business knows this. I challenge anyone for proof this man has performed ANY act that has been prosperous for the lawful CITIZENS of this nation.

  • Bitter Libertarian

    This “Good news” is simply a “splinter” out of our “Lumberyard” of troubles…

  • chuckb

    the bleeding heart liberals haven’t seen thru the smoke screen barry laid out with this stock manipulation. they don’t want to see what’s really taking place and i doubt if they have the common sense to figure it out. they voted this useless clown into office and they kneel at his teleprompter.
    43% of the dim witts think this guy is doing a good job. it doesn’t matter what damage he does to the country or how many vacations he takes, he’s a democrat, that’s all that counts. oh! and i forgot he’s black, so that gives him a free pass to do whatever he wants. we can’t complain or we are racists.

  • Daughter of the Revolutionary War

    Obama & friends wants to claim victory over being the savior of GM & the rest of the world while he’s at it but he has done NOTHING for the country that he call’s himself President of. He gave GM to China & created more jobs for China. He’s leveling the playing fields, making sure the rest of the world has our technology and jobs while bankrupting the USA. It is a devious plan that Soros has invented and our puppet of a President with all of his little puppet cronies are just following along, while they try and act like they had the brains enough to come up with the plan on their own while this plan was implemented over 100 years ago & they have been chipping away at our Constitution until they have amendments enough to override it completely. The New World Order started with Bush senior, then came Clinton with all of his & his wife’s quiet little wars in Iraq, then George W went to finish what daddy started. Iran was responsible (or claimed responsibility for) 9/11 so why were we in Iraq to begin with? Why, when Obama stated he was ending the war & bringing our men & women home, did he send them to Afghanistan? I know why… do you? In the information age, why do we so blindly just accept the words of the liberal media that don’t know the definition of truth?

    • Karolyn

      “I know why…do you? – Another conservative clairvoyant!!

      • JC

        K You didn’t even know they were sent to Absurdistan did you?
        Now ask yourself why…

  • BarleyWheets

    BOYCOTT GM we did not ASK to support them. We do not WANT to support them. And NOW ALL our money is going to China.. via GM.. !! BOYCOTT any company that deals with GM.

    • Karolyn

      Oh, yeah, that will really make things better!

      • 45caliber

        Can it make it any worse? I doubt it.

        • Claire

          My comment is to boycott China. Especially after we get them paid off, if ever.

  • http://ByGeorge By George

    GM didn’t survive bankruptcy. It never got to experience bankruptcy. It was bailed out with tax payers money, its leadership arrested and move out to a gulag somewhere, its stock holder shafted and its unions enriched. And now they are trying to pedel this unwanted piece of crap as the new wave with bribes to induce buyers to buy the thing. The carbon footprint,if you believe in that nonsense, required to charge the batteries is greater in electrical consumption then a full tank of gasoline. I heard that China has invested heavily in the GM IPO. That’s very good. Soon, no doubt, we’ll see the Chevy Volt used as taxi’s in Bejing.
    We are a bunch of saps if we fall for this scheme.

  • tim

    obama is a puppet. He isn’t intelligent enough to run anything! He is ran by people like george soros and the united nations. He needs to go!@!!!!!!

  • Daughter of the Revolutionary War

    How can Obama & friends GIVE GM TO CHINA? Was it not the TAX $$$’s of American Citizens that payed for GM’s bailout?

    I guess the same way Idiot Carter GAVE the Panama Canal away without the consent of the people who payed for it to begin with???

    • 45caliber

      We owe China a lot of cash. So if we were to pay off that cash by giving China GM, it would cover a little of it.

    • 45caliber

      Besides, most of the parts are made in China. All GM now does is assemble some of them to make an “American” car. Actually, the only totally American made car is put out by Toyota.

  • Shirley Ott

    I promise never to purchase a Government Motors car.

  • http://www.TomBlairEA.com Thomas Avery Blair

    I suggest that we not yell too loudly about the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. When and if those troops come home, who will there be to employ them?

    Between North Korea, Iran, Yemen, Pakistan, Somalia, etc. just how long do you think it might be that we will be going to war big time (perhaps just before the 2012 elections, do you suppose)? Obama has used failed concepts frequently during his first two years in office, and I’d say there’s probably a 70% to 80% chance that we will go into a ground war with both North Korea and Iran (at the very least) before November 2012. Doing that would improve “employment” figures by increased numbers of workers into miltary service and for war materials production (like GM and other auto makers who produced tanks and trucks for ground forces in the past).

    Would Obama dare do the unthinkable and go to war with Iran and North Korea…I say yes, and I truly expect that he will just in supporting any hopes of being re-elected in 2012.

    At least food for thought, is it not?

    Respectfully submitted,

    Thomas Avery Blair, EA

    • Ski

      WWII kept that SOB Roosevelt in office for life. Luckily the megalomaniac croaked before he could do any more damage. Yes, I would not put it past Obama to take the country into a major war to get re-elected.

    • 45caliber

      The left considers the war in the Mid-East as a good thing … it gets the military out of the US. The longer they can keep it going the better as far as they are concerned since they do NOT want it here to stop them. They only SAY they want to bring it home to win votes.

  • http://com i41

    Soros had his damn fingers in all state election, all the way down to any sociaist democrat community race. kommanderkapt, you don’t think he will not throw away his supporters when they have soaked up all the crap he can make them beleive, and have served the purpose he wants. He didn’t have trouble killing friends and realitives and family for his gains. Ask any socialist democrat, how can any democrat support their string pulling Nazi traitor and his methods of control? Government Motors didn’t pay off anything, just transfered debt to another government credit card plus an additional 45 extra billion give away. On balance sheets, your bank will tell you to get lost if you claimed to paid off your debt and needed a loan. Now the tax payers are getting hosed for about another 8,000 dollars per car, so idoits will by a matchbox electric car. All thanks to the purple lipped marxist muslim moron and his National Marxist Communist Democrat Union Party vacum lipped idoits.

  • Tim Quinn

    Both Bush and Obama are very socialistic. They have both accelerated the growth of government, just one more than the other. We need real change.

  • Ski

    The time for cowboys vs. lefties is probably no more than a year or so away. There aren’t all that many lefties, and a lot of them have limp wrists, hence can’t shoot very well. It’s going to be a pretty lopsided affair. When it’s over, the country will be back to what the founders envisioned.

    • 45caliber

      Lefties will HIRE guns to defend them (called body guards) but usually are scared to death of guns. If they are shot at, they immediately panic since they believe something like, “Oh my God! I’m going to get killed!”

      They also believe all they see of shooting on what they see in movies or on the tv. In other words, the hero (them) will always aim true while the enemy (everyone else) continually misses.

      I have never been worried about the lefties when it comes to a war with them. At best they hope to use our military against us since, “The military MUST obey the orders of the President since he is CIC! So if the President tells the military to shoot us, they will.” Wrong … again.

    • Karolyn

      In your nightmares! Not mine! As a matter of fact, I don’t have nightmares because I choose to see what is good rather than constantly hammering about what is bad. thus perpetuating the bad. You macho guys are just so full of yourselves.

  • Ski

    The electric cars are going to collapse the grid. As it is, the environmentalist idiots have prevented the expansion of the grid and construction of power plants for decades. On hot summer days, the grid is overwhelmed by air conditioning load, so we have rolling blackouts and brownouts as a result. Now the morons are adding electric cars to the already excessive load. What people in this country don’t understand is that the environmental movement is populated mostly by ignorant dupes who have no understanding of the science underlying any particular environmental cause celeb. The leaders of the environmental movement are Marxists using the movement as a vehicle for the destruction of private property rights, and by extension the national economy. It is simply an arm of the multifaceted effort to bring the Cloward Piven Strategy to fruition.

    • 45caliber

      You are correct. Anyone with even simply science background can tell you that global warming is a hoax. So was the “hole in the ozone” caused by Freon. Or the “glaciers are coming” hoax. Or the k2 hoax. Or the electric car (which, by the way, can be made.)

      But the ones who get their info from tabloids will never believe you.

  • chuckb

    the electric car is supposedly barry’s ace in the hole. i really think these enviro’s believe people are going to stand in line to buy these contraptions, barry evidently thinks this will make gm a winner. could it be that these mouse traps will be produced in china? china is producing fans for the windmills,this was part of the stimulus bill so why not the electric cars. i understand the stock for gm sold at 33.00 per share, barry bought gm stock at 49.00 per share (taxpayer money) the sold stock went to bail out the unions retirement fund, this is what they call succeeding, it seems the union is the one that is winning. this is called razzle dazzle.

    • 45caliber

      GM has the design for a good electric car but they won’t use it.

      Back about 1970, a company asked a woman I knew to test an electric car for them. It used 6 standard car batteries. She drove a 55 mile daily paper route through the Ozark Mountains. She plugged into a 110v recepticle they put in her garage to recharge. Everything else was on the car – including the exact amount of electricty used to recharge.

      She could get 65 mph going up and down hills. She had at least a 320 mile range on a single charge (about what all cars have today based on the gas they can carry). It took 30 minutes to recharge. She drove it for two years. And I rode in it. It was totally quiet except for the tire noise on the road. She had to replace the car batteries once a year – which cost at that time about $300. Her MONTHLY increase in electricity for recharging cost her about $12.50 at that time. Except for the batteries, there was no other maintenance costs. The tires lasted the entire two years.

      At the end of 2 years they came back to pick up the car and take it apart to check. She told them she wanted to buy a new car just like it – or even buy that one. They told her they couldn’t sell it to her – GM had bought them out.

      So GM has the patents and design info to put this car on the road. But it is NOT the car Oblama is promising.

      It seems that an electric car does not pay fuel taxes. If they tried to tax the electricity it took to recharge one, they would also have to take ALL electricity – which would mean the government could expect immediate revolt at the cost. So they won’t allow it to be built. Instead they talk about needing a new design of batteries, that electric cars can never go more than 45 mph and that they only have a 50 mile range. Plus they generally cost more than a gasoline driven car so no one wants to buy one.

      • Claire

        45caliber–Another thought–people wanted SUVs. I know my husband and I did. I think GM mass produced the SUVs because a lot of people wanted SUVs. GM produced what the public wanted at the time.

      • Ski

        Somebody is pulling your leg. First off, “standard car batteries” are designed for engine starting, not traction, hence they would be inappropriate for deep cycle service. Second, even very large “car” batteries are less than 200 Ampere Hour. Six such batteries (72 Volts) working at the maximum allowable 80% depth of discharge means that at a nominal 8 hour rate of 20 amperes, 1.44 KW was available for 8 hours. At 100% efficiency, 2 Hp was available. If the average load was increased to 4 Hp the battery would last less then half as long, and if increased to 8 Hp it would be much less than a quarter as long because the higher the discharge rate, the higher the battery internal losses (heating). I leave it to you to decide if a car will go 55 Mph “up and down hills” all day with an average 2 Hp providing the push. But the numbers work out like this. Lets say that the rolling drag is a typical 30Lbs. or so for a small car. Add say another 40 Lbs of drag for air resistance at 55 Mph and you discover that on a level road you need 14 Hp to do that. A number of laws of physics are involved in this game, but the one that governs is that “there ain’t no free lunch”, as they say in the UAW.

        • 45caliber

          Ski:

          As I said, I RODE in the darned thing!! And I saw the batteries too. They were in a drawer under the floor that pulled out. Nothing out of the ordinary. All were Sears Die-Hards. I looked at the engine too. Basically an electric motor. Nothing odd about it.

  • Ken

    Clearly many, or most, of your correspondents require a basic understanding of politics. It seems that few seem to understand the true differences between conservatives, liberals, socialists, communists or side-shoots like Marxism and where some of these always have existed in American society. I know this will come as a shock to some but there are so many examples of socialism which Americans find highly desirable in their world and which they would refuse to give up. Ask and I’ll tell you!

    • 45caliber

      The problem is that conservatives are NOT interested in going socialist completely since it gives up all personal freedoms as the government takes control of everything. The socialists in Washington – and elsewhere – refuse to settle for just what we have now.

      • Ski

        The problem with socialists is that all but the leadership are, as Lenin described them; “useful idiots”.

        • Jerry

          Once that Soviet-Citizens were “Brain-Washed, soviet-style”, Leaders called them “Trained Apes-!” Type- http://www.whale/to/b/soviet.htm ==read Chapter XIV “The Smashing of Religious Groups” and read it, yourself!

  • libra

    OBAMA IS A THIEF: HE STOLE THE BONDHOLDERS SHARE IN THE POLITICAL BANKRUPTCY OF G.M. THERE HAS NEVER BEEN A POLITICAL BANKRUPTCY IN OUR HISTORY. BANKRUPTCIES ARE DONE IN COURTS OF LAW. THE UNIONS WERE GIVEN THE STOLEN SHARE OF THE BONDHOLDERS CASH.. THE UAW WAS GIVEN BY THE THEIF IN CHIEF THE BONDHOLDERS SHARE. THEY HAD TO GET THEIR SHARE OF THE SPOILS BECAUSE THEY BORROWED UNION FUNDS TO HELP INSTALL THE THEIF IN CHIEF IN THE OVAL OFFICE. STEVE RATTNER HAS BEEN FINED 6.4. MILLION DOLLARS BY THE S.E.C.–HE RAN QUADRANGLE HEDGE FUND AND EVIDENTLY WAS DISHONEST AND A THEIF SURPRISE-SURPRISE. YET HE RAN G.M. FOR A SHORT WHILE AND WAS PAID ENOUGH TO COVER THE S.E.C. FINE. WHAT A DEAL. I WROTE A LETTER TO JUDGE GERBER IN N.Y. BANKRUPTCY COURT AND ASKED HIM TO REMEMBER THAT HE IS AN OFFICER OF THE COURT AND TO REMEMBER HIS OATH TO UPHOLD THE CONSTITUTION. IT IS A VIOLATION OF THE CONSTITUTION TO TAKE PRIVATE PROPERTY. NO ANSWER TO DATE NOR DO I EXPECT AN ANSWER. THE BONDS OBAMA STOLE WERE ONLY MY RETIREMENT MONEY THAT I PAID 100 CENTS ON THE DOLLAR FOR. JUST WAIT UNTIL THE THEIF IN CHIEF TAKES OUR HOMES AND RETIREMENT FUNDS AND GIVES US GUBMNT ANNUITIES. THE UAW WAS GIVEN I.P.O. SHARES OF G.M. RECENTLY AND HAS SOLD THEM ALREADY. THE PITTANCE FOR THE BONDHOLDERS WILL BE DECIDED BY JUDGE GERBER IN 2 OR 3 YEARS. THE U.A.W. GOT 35 % AND BONDHOLDERS GOT 10%. THE UAW SHOULD HAVE RECEIVED NOTHING IN A LEGAL BANKRUPTCY BUT IN A POLITICAL BANKRUPTCY –ANYTHING GOES. JUST WAIT TIL HE COMES AFTER YOUR ASSETS AND I HAVE NO DOUBT THAT HE WILL ILLEGALLY TAKE EVERYTHING HE CAN SO HE CAN CONTINUE TO SPEND LIKE THE ADDICT THAT HE IS.

    • Ski

      I am not a pious man, but I now pray every day that the Lord grants me life long enough to see that America hating Muslim Mole illegal alien convicted for the 50 counts of perjury he committed to get on the ballot in the 50 States.

      • JC

        Amen That!

  • Carl W

    Back in 2008 when George Bush committed to the first TARP plan for the bankers and auto industry I was strongly against it. I’m for a more limited, smaller, less intrusive or controlling government. I’ve determined to not buy any new vehicles from GM or Chrysler, especially those made in the USA. I remember that a couple of decades ago the Big 3 asked congress to add tariffs onto the Japanese autos to increase their prices and congress complied. If memory serves well the Detroit companies then increased their own prices for extra profit.
    I remember also that both GM Chrysler, and Ford churned out very large volumes of their economy cars (Corvair,Falcon,Valiant)to sell at prices lower than the smaller competitors such as Studebaker and AMC Rambler could not match. They helped drive these companies out. So I don’t feel for them. We own two Hondas and one very old Chevy truck. Looking to replace the Chevy with a Nissan Frontier.
    Obama is trying to unionize every industry he can and it is going to further hurt our economy. Many low income people cannot afford to buy the higher priced union-made goods and this helps the economy of foreign nations.

    • JC

      You can put Harley Davidson on that list too.

    • Bob Wire

      yea, and you shop at Walmart at every change, ~ and you vote with your dollars and don’t give a darn about America or being an American if it affects your comfort zone.

      Please tell me how I’m wrong.

  • Carl W

    Let me say that I have no problem with the American auto companies building state of the art production facilities paying better than average wages in Mexico to entice the Hispanics to leave this country to make a good living there. This will help both nations. I’d much rather see U.S. companies using labor within our hemisphere than going to a Communist dictatorship nation. Practically all of our electronics now come from China and I wonder if the automakers will follow suit.

    • Ski

      You can stop wondering, they already have. I know that at least GM is making cars in china. For now, they are all sold there.

  • chuckb

    We’re broke ASS AMERICAN’S!!

    We’re “broke” & can’t help our own Seniors, Veterans, Orphans,Homeless etc………..

    In the last month we have provided aid to Haiti, Chile, and Turkey.

    Our retired seniors living on a ‘fixed income’ receive no aid or get anybreaks while our government and religious organizations pour
    Hundreds of Millions of $$$$$’s and Tons of Food into Foreign Countries!

    We have hundreds of adoptable children who are shoved aside to make room for the adoption of foreign orphans.

    USA, a country where we have homeless without shelter, children going to bed hungry,
    elderly going without ‘needed’ meds, and mentally ill without treatment – etc,etc…
    YET……………….
    They have a ‘Benefit’ for the people of Haiti on 12 TV stations, ships and planes lining up with food, water, tents clothes, bedding, doctors and medical supplies.

    Imagine if the *GOVERNMENT* gave ‘us’ the same support they give to other countries.

    Sad isn’t it?

    • Claire

      chuckb–I agree with most of what you posted. One thing about adoptable children here in the United States. My niece and her husband adopted a little boy and a little girl about 15 years ago. Both were “crack” babies. The girl is still on medication and doing okay so far but the boy is 16 years old now and in a home for uncontrollable youth. He is on a lot of medication and it does not appear that he will ever live a normal life. My niece and her husband have not had much of a life raising these two kids, but they did their best. The point I am trying to make is that a lot of the adoptable kids in the U.S. are crack babies—a lot of the mothers were druggies. I have read that this is one of the reasons people adopt children from foreign countries. Too many crack babies in the U.S. Plus the fact that a lot of people do not want an older child. It is tragic.

    • Claire

      chuckb–Another issue–Since I have 8 show dogs–They get very good care, they are fed good, taken care of properly and healthfully. I often think about the children that go to bed hungry, do not get good care, they live a horrible existence and it does bother me. At times I think my dogs have a better life than a lot of children. It is sad. Consequently I do donate to several organizations here in Springfield, it makes me feel less guilty, I guess.

  • http://com i41

    The former black rino Sec of State, just proved what a knuckle dragging, jungle gymn idoit has always been. Puke Powell the wimpa$$ed moron, who never finsihed the job the first time in Iraq, is now playing with the marxist muslim moron’s jock strap by embracing the treaty with Russia. Of course the black wimp will back the muslim marxist jungle gymn idoit, not what he was or what he had done as a fellow affermative action curtain swinger., Only he was a black book trained worthless vactioning mutt with a hard core socialist sow for a nesy mate who want to destroy the USA. Carl W, also when the average mechanic, not assemble person, was making 5-$7 a hr, union deada$$es were making over $21 a hr turning out s–t. These goons were one job only morons, These idoits were mechanical idoits, never should have been hired, and nobody could make the unions change. We had purchased farm tractors from major supplies and had problems with all new equipment componentparts used on all of them. On one high priced 4 wheel drive model, the company had to put in 3 comeplete axle assemblies on just our equipment. After 2 years the company block men called us and explained the problems in all the tractors using these component parts. Since the unions required a certain percentage of minorities, be on the assembly line floor at all times. In Detroit the need for so many blacks were needed to not break am agreement with the union. That durning the work shifts,idoits were either drinking or doinging drugs to incapicated these dead a$$es, and in some cases the idoits just walked off. Union shop stewards would stage work slow downs until unemployment services sent some more idoits down. The job should have only required 1 person using a air ratchet to tighten down 6 screws, at most one minute of work, instead the unions required 2 workers and were given 14 minutes to get the job done. The reason it was given to black idoits was it was the simplest job, and if they got to jiving and smoking, it didn’t stop production pace. Unions alway protect the most worthless sorry a$$ed members of a crew. This $40,000+ worthless peice of crap volt, the wonder car, doesn’t have enough formed glass , plastic and electronics to be worth that much. Throw the bateries away and use the little putt putt gas motor to get around which you have to if you drive over 40 miles. Kind of a niggaredly waste of material and taxpayers money. The material or parts at bulk costs are maybe $3,000 at most, so what is the labor costs $400 a hour plus, and unions get $7000 dollar kick back for a slush fund for more socialist and communism canidates?

  • http://tds.net Tom Burr

    We rant with partial answers,point fingers, Hate and complain. We have given our wealth away to, say China. How? try as you may but that label tells all. China has cut our throat,?? China???Well, who gave them plans, inventions, We got a hand shake and when we looked for the time found our watch was gone. Watch??? Oh yea the great educated company leaders decided!!! (Fellow board members) listen up we have found a way to make, (well) billions,!!?? How?? Lets send our product lines to China. Now, hear me out!! We will become a warehouse, products advertiser, Cheering on,every thing from clothing to tools, Yes, food products. What was that?? Well the American public really won’t say much because they will pay much less for their items. yea!! every thing from soup to nuts. Who’s hand is up back there?? Well sir, what about our finest mechanics,repair people, Clothing Manufacturing, Tool and dye?? We have invented that which places people on the moon,our television, computers, health products,What will happen with all these people?? Our great labor second to none?? Whats your name young fella?? You seem quite intelligent I would like to have you contact me after the meeting. And as this initial meeting must come to a close, and allow our board members to think it over until next Monday at 8:00 sharp. We will have the whole day to go over our plan, Oh yes, we know many of you will decide the plans are of a great tribute to the American know how. Thank you.

  • http://tds.net Tom Burr

    We rant with partial answers,point fingers, Hate and complain. We have given our wealth away to, say China. How? try as you may but that label tells all. China has cut our throat,?? China???Well, who gave them plans, inventions, We got a hand shake and when we looked for the time found our watch was gone. Watch??? Oh yea the great educated company leaders decided!!! (Fellow board members) listen up we have found a way to make, (well) billions,!!?? How?? Lets send our product lines to China. Now, hear me out!! We will become a warehouse, products advertiser, Cheering on,every thing from clothing to tools, Yes, food products. What was that?? Well the American public really won’t say much because they will pay much less for their items. yea!! every thing from soup to nuts. Who’s hand is up back there?? Well sir, what about our finest mechanics,repair people, Clothing Manufacturing, Tool and dye?? We have invented that which places people on the moon,our television, computers, health products,What will happen with all these people?? Our great labor second to none?? Whats your name young fella?? You seem quite intelligent I would like to have you contact me after the meeting. And as this initial meeting must come to a close, and allow our board members to think it over until next Monday at 8:00 sharp. We will have the whole day to go over our plan, Oh yes, we know many of you will decide the plans are of a great tribute to the American know how. Thank you. Ok, knock it out!!!

  • Eric Bischoff

    Republicans filibustered 16 different proposed tax cuts in the last couple of years. The only one they want is the one for the rich. They want to extend the expiring Bush tax cuts.

    Meanwhile 2 million people just lost their unemployment benefits today just in time for xmas. But hey screw them we don’t want to be a socialism like system that helps people in trouble. We ‘re too busy helping corporate america giving them zero interest loans even if they don’t need it.

    I am sure that you’ll hear different versions of this and many attacks on it but in the end the guy who did something for us is the most progressive guy in the US government today. BERNIE SANDERS. The guy who forced Bernanke to reveal where the Bush bailout money went. And then they discovered that there was a lot more, a hell of a lot more, Trillions more. Did you see the list even McDonalds got money. Did you get any money?

    “After years of stonewalling by the Fed, the American people are finally learning the incredible and jaw-dropping details of the Fed’s multi-trillion-dollar bailout of Wall Street and corporate America. As a result of this disclosure, other members of Congress and I will be taking a very extensive look at all aspects of how the Federal Reserve functions and how we can make our financial institutions more responsive to the needs of ordinary Americans and small businesses.

    What have we learned from today’s disclosure? And, this is based on a 4 hour examination of over 21,000 transactions. We have learned that the $700 billion Wall Street bailout signed into law under George W. Bush turned out to be pocket change compared to the trillions and trillions of dollars in near zero interest loans and other financial arrangements the Federal Reserve doled out to every major financial institution in this country. Among those are Goldman Sachs which received nearly $600 billion; Morgan Stanley which received nearly $2 trillion; Citigroup which received $1.8 trillion; Bear Stearns which received nearly a trillion; and Merrill Lynch received some $1.5 trillion in short term loans from the Fed.

    We have also learned that the Fed’s multi-trillion bailout was not limited to Wall Street and big banks, but that some of the largest corporations in this country also received a very substantial bailout. Among those are General Electric, McDonald’s, Caterpillar, Harley Davidson, Toyota, and Verizon also received a bailout from the Fed.

    Perhaps most surprising is the huge sum that went to bail out foreign private banks and corporations including two European megabanks — Deutsche Bank and Credit Suisse – who were the largest beneficiaries of the Fed’s purchase of mortgage-backed securities.

    Deutsche Bank, a German lender, sold the Fed more than $290 billion worth of mortgage securities and Credit Suisse, a Swiss bank, sold the Fed more than $287 billion in mortgage bonds. Has the Federal Reserve of the United States become the central bank of the world?

    The Fed said that this bailout was necessary to prevent the world economy from going over a cliff. But, three years after the start of the recession, millions of Americans remain unemployed and have lost their homes, life savings and ability to send their kids to college. Meanwhile, big banks and corporations have returned to making huge profits and paying their executives record-breaking compensation packages as if the financial crisis they started never happened.

    What this disclosure tells us, among many other things, is that despite this huge taxpayer bailout, the Fed did not make the appropriate demands on these institutions necessary to rebuild our economy and protect the needs of ordinary Americans.
    For example, at a time when big banks have nearly a trillion dollars in excess reserves parked at the Fed, the Fed did not require these institutions to increase lending to small and medium sized businesses as a condition of the bailout.

    At a time when large corporations are more profitable than ever, the Fed did not demand that corporations that received this backdoor bailout create jobs and expand the economy once they returned to profitability. I intend to investigate whether these secret Fed loans, in some cases, turned out to be direct corporate welfare to big banks that used these loans not to reinvest in the economy but rather to lend back to the federal government at a higher rate of interest by purchasing Treasury Securities.

    The Federal Reserve claimed that these loans were needed so that big banks could start lending to small and medium sized businesses that desperately needed money to create jobs and to prevent layoffs. But, instead of using this money to reinvest in the productive economy, I suspect a large portion of these near zero interest loans were used to buy Treasury Securities at a higher interest rate providing free money to some of the largest financial institutions in this country. That is something that we have got to closely examine.

    At a time when Wall Street executives are now making more money than before the financial crisis, how many big banks that paid back TARP funds in 2009 to avoid limits on executive compensation received no-strings attached loans from the Federal Reserve?
    At a time when millions of Americans are paying outrageously high credit card interest rates, why didn’t the Fed require credit card issuers to lower interest rates as a condition of the bailout?

    The four largest banks in this country (Bank of America, JP Morgan Chase, Wells Fargo, and Citigroup) issue half of all mortgages in this country. We now know that these banks received hundreds of billions from the Fed. How many Americans could have remained in their homes, if the Fed required these bailed-out banks to reduce mortgage payments as a condition of receiving these secret loans?

    But hey that’s why there’s no money for you fools. That’s why we can’t extend unemployment, that’s why we want to cut social security, ask you to work longer and that is why we want to cut education and arts funding.

    • Ski

      The blatant lie in your first paragraph dissuades reading further.

      • Eric Bischoff

        By all means never read anything that contradicts your myopic point of view.

        • JC

          As the avowed socialist that you are Eric, you have no standing. None.
          Literally anything you have to say immediately falls into the category of statist propoganda and is therefore a useless waste of time. In fact maybe we should nickname you “Che”.

  • Eric Bischoff

    So corporate america and the rich got Bush bailout money, they also got trillions of zero interest loans, they got Bush tax cuts for the last 10 years.

    WHERE ARE THE JOBS ASS HOLES?

    WHERE ARE THE JOBS?

    ARE THEY COMING ANYTIME SOON?

    OH I forgot you need more tax cuts and then maybe we’ll get jobs!!!!!

    • dhellew2

      Let me ask you a few questions. Do you have the cajones it takes to learn the truth or are you a typical democrat being held by the hand and told what to do following blind faith? Do you know who actually pays taxes? Do you really know why businesses don’t hire more people? Highly unlikely otherwise you would not make empty comments.

      You have no clue how much tax businesses pay because you don’t see the more than 50% that they pay more than you do. I hear comments like yours all the time but they are without basis and fact. Corporations pay billions of dollars in property taxes, corporation taxes, social security taxes, federal and state unemployment taxes, more millions in insurance premiums. Businesses are folding up because they cannot pay all the taxes and still make a living for themselves.

      So who is to blame for the lack of jobs, government of course. You cannot hire people when you are paying all your money to the thieving government,

      THERE IS A COMMON MISCONCEPTION ABOUT WHO PAYS TAXES!
      NOTE: This is not about someone doing their job, only the economics of the economy.
      All taxes are paid by private sector businesses and 30% of the working population.
      Approximately 10% of the private sector population (wealthy) pays 40% of the taxes.
      The remaining 20% of the population and private sector businesses pay the other 60% of the taxes.
      About fifty percent of the workforce is government workers who pay no taxes**, plus 40% of the private sector (according to census reports) that also don’t pay any taxes.
      Deductions from government paychecks and other” taxes paid” by government employees reduces the amount of tax revenue received. No money is ever added to the tax base by these payments.
      Jointly the size of government and those that pay no taxes results in the inability for government to collect enough revenue from the private sector to cover expenses so government borrows money and creates debt.
      ACCORDING TO IRS DEFINITION BASED ON ACCEPTED ACCOUNTING PRINCIPLES,
      GOVERNMENT IS A NON-INCOME PRODUCING OVERHEAD EXPENSE TO THE PRIVATE SECTOR.

      • Eric Bischoff

        That’s complete bull and you know it.

        Low taxes invites reckless speculation and that is what we have just gone through.

        How do you explain the best and most productive periods in our history being the ones when the taxes on the rich were the highest as high as 90%?

        You can’t and that is why all of your posturing cannot explain or justify anything you are professing as solutions. The Reagan trickle down theory has been debunked. Case closed. It didn’t work it was a lie and it is largely responsible for where we are today.

        • JC

          More Brain Dead Statist Garbage.

  • chuckb

    eric

    start a business yourself and when it comes tax time just pay up and don’t complain. be sure you have employees and they are all unionized with a nice contract such as they have with gm. then when tax time comes all you have to do is pay the tax rate before the bush cuts, then you will feel better. lol

    • dhellew2

      Chuck don’t forget to tell Erik that after paying all the taxes maybe you can borrow money from your employees so you can buy food for your family.

      Government kills business, the same businesses that create the economy and the tax-paying jobs.

      Don’t forget to tell him that government employees pay is tax revenue therefore they cannot and do not pay taxes.

      • Denniso

        Why don’t you travel to a country w/o a strong,functioning and viable gov’t and see how well business works there? You people need to read some real books and real history and then talk,or not. Opinions based on pure nonsense are not worth much.

        • Eric Bischoff

          They can’t, 85% of Americans have never had a Passport!

      • Eric Bischoff

        Now that’s precious the ones who are the most well off crying the blues. You people are so far removed from reality. Have you no shame. The fact is the rich are doing better than ever, the middle class is hurting and the poor are doing worse than ever. And the rich have had their taxes cut for the last 10 years. Have you no shame?

      • Eric Bischoff

        And let’s not forget that govt employees are Americans providing a service to other Americans and according to the latest study they are getting paid 22% less than the private sector. Stop spreading lies.

        • JC

          The service they provide is poor at best, overpriced, wouldn’t survive 5 minutes on the free market and is forced on us…
          What value!

  • Void1972

    Check out #t=19

  • Jerry

    I noted that about 30 years ago–United Auto Workers numbered nearly one million, no wait–900 thousand! Hardly 300 thousand left–but how many of these would move to China, to compete on union-scale there for $8 per hour-? Sounds to me like the CIO union coal-miners, who used to strike in the middle of the winter, not realizing they were cutting their memberships, when the Railroads were forced to buy Diesel-Locomotives-! They cut their own throats, listening to union leaders, meanwhile losing over 66% of their employed Jobs! Fine for the ones that were still working–but bad for the ones left forever out of that Trade-! And thinking about that–isn’t Obama promising to finish off the one’s that are left–by Cap & Trade condemning their Bread & Butter Employment-! Thanks Democrats, for saving the Coal & Steel Industries–We needed the Work, when you guys needed our votes-! (What do you mean–”The Honey-moon’s Over-!” Weren’t we all
    good Union-Members & Solid-Democrats-! You used us like you used the
    American Public-!)

    • Denniso

      Obama is trying to save American jobs and the rightwing is complaining about that. I guess he should have just let the domminos keep falling from GM to Ford to mainstreet. If the economy had collapsed further,even Ford would have suffered and maybe fallen. Other companies would have fallen.
      All this carping about Obama saving the economy reminds me of people who have no clue about what it takes to play or coach a football team bitching about a game on Monday morning. Maybe some here notice that most of the worst complaining is coming from politicians and blabbers who are not trained in economics or much of anything.

      • Denniso

        And American jobs going overseas? Isn’t that the glorious ‘free market’?? The rightwingers praise the ‘free market’ and say that we have to let it operate as it should and companies that can’t make it should go bust…then they turn around and whine about the market sending jobs overseas. Hypocrital or just ignorance?

      • JC

        Don’t you mean Obama is busy destroying America under orders from his master Soros? Like the lap dog he truly is?
        Nothing new here, he’s just the latest puppet in the WH.

        • denniso

          By your ‘thinking’,pretty much everyone but you is a puppet…

          • JC

            By my thinking, our government stopped being our government decades ago. They are in fact puppets to the money lenders. I don’t see you as a puppet though Denniso, just a brain washed uselful idiot.

          • denniso

            You do realize,don’t you,that we live in a capitalist society where money runs essentially everything? You don’t want money to rule,change the system…

    • Eric Bischoff

      The Reagan damage goes on forever. Blame and break the unions. Please explain to me why Asian and German car companies are opening and operating car manufacturing facilities in America? If they can do it we can do it. And although they are not union jobs they pay relatively the same as union jobs. Stop the disingenuous bull.

  • chuckb

    denniso

    like you are!

    • Denniso

      I’m not talking about the buffoons here complaining…of course they have no expertise in economics. I’m talking about the national whiners like McConnell,Boehner,Palin,Beck,Limbaugh…the real dimwits.
      I don’t claim great expertise but at least I have a minor in econ and a degree in engineering and 45 yrs of self employment. I listen to the majority of economists who back what Obama did to save the world economy. If we had failed,the world was going to follow. A world wide
      depression would have been the result and it would make our economy now look like a boom in comparison.

      • Truthout

        Good point. Who would ever have thought the automobile industry would be profitable today? We finally have a President who cares.

        • Bob Wire

          I watched TOP GEER tonight, they pitted the top end Cadillac against a top end Mercedes Benz 2010 models sedan 4,000 lb class in 4 separate trials.

          1st zero to 100 and full stop ~ Cadillic won

          2nd rolling 60mph stomp to 100 ~ Cadillic won

          3rd Top speed ~ tied at 160.5 mph

          4rd wet pavement Jim Connor course ~ Cadillac won

          I must say, I was impressed with such results.

          I drive old Ford as they are extremely dependable and great value buy but I’ve always preferred GM products for ride and driving comfort, I just hate to pay more for them.

          I’m left to say GM offers a dandy of a fine product today and I’m glad they are still around. Call it American proud if you wish.

          • JC

            You can call it American Proud if you like…I’ll call it what it is.: Unprincipled Loyalism. (Not Patriotism.)
            Not to mention that supporting this irresponsible Corp. was forced on us. No way will I ever buy anything from any anyone who took money from a government that has NO business, IN business.

          • Bob Wire

            JC ~ hmm. ~ I call it a good product.

            and since farming and medical care is subsided by government, where does that place you?

            I’m not singing government praises but acknowledging a reality.

  • chuckb

    denniso

    who are these economist that back barry? did barry save our economy? what are you smoking? maybe these so called economists are giving barry the wrong info, maybe that’s why we are not saved as yet, you are hallucinating. please advise who these miracle workers are, anyone we know or are they some of the crack pot professors at barry’s so called alma mater. also please call barry and tell him the recession is over and he did a great job, especially the gm triumph. what a victory we saved the auw retirement fund.

    • denniso

      I can only guess how you would have fared in the real depression. Whine,whine,whine. Why don’t you try to help out where you can,or at least bite your tongue and make the best of a bad situation that began under Bush/Cheny,just like the ’29 depression did. And if you want to carp about FDR and the depression,remember that it was a full blown depression under the Repub Hoover for 3+ yrs,before FDR ever got in.

  • Paulette

    According to Jess Toprak, an analyst at True Car Inc., GM’s future depends on the company moving 80 percent of its production outside the United States, principally in South America and China. That does not bode well for creating American jobs. The Democrats also seem to be ignoring the fact that Detroit automakers have been in a state of decline since the 1970s and that Washington has intervened for them, beginning with the Chrysler Corporation Loan Guarantee Act of 1979.

    And it won’t bring back the thousands of jobs that were lost when
    Obama’s car czar closed down hundreds of dealerships or pay back
    the legitimate bond holders that were cheated out of their money by
    putting the union first. The people are still going to lose money from the bailout because the union is taking all the cream off the top and leaving the people to get stuck with the bill!

    This article is just confirming what Glenn Beck said the other day.
    That the people’s shares will have to sell for twice as much for the
    people to break even! Thanks again Obama

    • Truthout

      Watch GM’s share price grow. And the US taxpayer will be made whole, and the American car industry saved. Thank you President Obama!

      • JC

        Thanks Kamrade. For showing us what unAmerican brain washing looks like.

        • Denniso

          If Obama(and Bush)hadn’t stopped the imploding economy and we had 20% unemployment across the entire country you and your rightwing partisan buddies would be even more irate toward Obama…admit the truth,you people would and will condemn Obama no matter what he does or how healthy the economy is.

          You have no intellectual rational behind all the bitching and moaning about Obama and the Dems.

  • Truthout

    Actually, thanks to the leadership of President Obama, more than 3 million jobs have been saved. Obviously unemployment is at unacceptable levels, but without saving General Motors we’d be facing nearly 15 per cent unemployment. We are on the right track to recovery, with over ten months of steady job growth.

    • JC

      Wow! 3 million jobs huh? At who’s expense?

  • LyingDog

    Jobs, paychecks, and manufactured products happen when the government spends money with the zeal of a salad shooter turned green paper addict. Better focus on what is being done with the money where. Also, what is the chance the money will come back.

    As long as quality cars at a lower price can be had elsewhere, the US consumer will turn away from GM, Ford, and whatever they call the other one today whether the car is made by union workers, non-union workers, or robots. Most dollars have eyes that are blind to everything but price.

  • Eric Bischoff

    30 Years of Reaganomics
    30 years of Flat Wages
    30 years of Union busting
    30 years of deregulating
    30 years of Defunding the social safety nets

    you broke the middle class
    you broke the American consumer engine
    And now the country is broke

    but the rich are doing better!
    But there’s plenty of money for big business
    but there’s plenty of money to invade countries.
    But there’s plenty of money for Banksters

    This is insanity
    And too many of you have no heart!

    • denniso

      You’re right eric…the country has become more right leaning,more privatised,less regulated,less unionized,more wealth at the top,more militaristic, and now the people who pushed us in that direction are trying to blame the Democrats and Obama…hypocritical and ridiculous.

    • JC

      Commies in love…how sweet ;)

      • denniso

        What nonsense flows from a purportedly human mind…sad.

  • http://GOGGLE vaksal

    THIS QUESTION? how many american jobs in the american auto industry were made by the (GM auto bailout)? is it true that a very large amount of that bailout money was used for overseas plant expansions as in china,and mexico to counter ford motor companys buliding the largest production plant in the northern hemisphere to make trucks and cars to supply this nation (U.S.A.)so what good is any bailout,when it does not do one bit of good for our nation,it just sends the message to any person that once worked in any industry in this nation that the boys and girls(THE LEFTWING NEO-COM LIBERAL COMMMUNIST IN THIS NATION HAVE CAUSED THIS MESS AS TO OVERTHROW THIS REPUBLIC,AND TURN US INTO A COMMUNIST POLICE STATE,THE TRILATERAL COMMISSION FOLKS,BETRAYED THIS REPUBLIC.QUESTION? IS THE WASHINGTON BUNCH GOING TO GET THE COMPANIES BACK? THE ANSWER IS HELL NO! why? why should they when we are forced to keep these corperate thugs operating tax free in foreign counties with us getting the bill and bank rolling them to pay wages to overseas workers.there should be a law that to be an american company 90% of your production will be made within this nations borders,if not you are a foreign company,and guess what? no BAILOUT! and a 25% tax will be charged for using american registration to rob money from the nations taxpayers,but that will only happen,when we vote out all those who let this happen on their watch in washington,if not welcome to the banana republic.

  • Bob Wire

    “Government Motors: President Obama’s Hollow Victory”

    you are free to say that all you want too ~ but from the beginning on the campaign trail, Obama told us it was “NOT” about him! and it still not about Obama, ~ as hard as you might attempt to make people believe that it’s so.

    and this isn’t a Obama Victory but a lucky break for working American men and women, not only for GM but all the supporting private enterprises as well, numbering into many thousand of American families.

    So scoff all you want to ~ but I sure wouldn’t pick you for any American team I might create with such a warped attitude and calloused disregard for fellow Americans.

    I think you are letting your “conservative” view and bias cloud your vision and darken your heart.

    Whats better then job creating then job saving?

    It was a job addressing situation and if you can’t see it for what it is, you have little business attempting to discuss today’s politics.

    • meteorlady

      So let me get this right. After GM closes most of their plants – I thought around 7, there will be more jobs created or there WERE more jobs created? That really doesn’t compute you know. If GM had gone into bankruptcy without the government interference, we would have all been better off. The bond holders (mostly older people’s retirement funds) wouldn’t have lost their money and the outcome would have worked out a lot better. Also this has hidden costs that no one want to talk about, mainly the bankruptcy itself and all the small business suppliers that went under as a result, not to mention the car dealers that were closed down.

      The Obama administration put $13.4 billion of the aid money as “working capital” in an escrow account when the company was in bankruptcy. The company is using this escrow money—government money—to pay back the government loan.

      GM is using government money to pay back government money to get more government money. And at a 2 percent lower interest rate at that. This is a nifty scheme to refinance GM’s government debt—not pay it back!

      Oh and what about GMAC (now Ally Bank), GM’s financing arm, which received $16.2 billion and has yet to repay any of it. GM rid itself of GMAC’s problems by spinning it off shortly before declaring bankruptcy, but the money loaned to GMAC should count toward GM’s bailout: If it hadn’t been necessary to keep financing available to GM customers, GMAC probably would have been allowed to fail.Yes. GM could face a funding crisis in 2013 or 2014 when, under the current projections, the automaker will be required to make more than $12 billion in contributions to its pension funds to keep them solvent, according to the GAO analysis.

    • Meteorlady

      No answer to the above – I’m still waiting.

      • Bob Wire

        Sorry, I was somewhere else.

        Well, you offer a good point ~ and the same reasoning could well be applied to the first bank bail -out under “W’s” watch. We could have just let it happen and market forces dictate what happened, be willing to live with the results.

        That would have worked for me! But that’s not what happened, government intervened, showing every American that it could and was willing too.

        So ~oo a pretense was established. As we find so often the case, “In for a penny, in for a pound”

        We can Monday Morning Quarter Back this decision until the cows come home.

        ~~ What ever! but please understand “ONE” thing, it’s not about “Obama”

        It never was, never has been ~ even though people try so hard to make it all about “Obama”

        There is nothing wrong with wanting to save something that affects so many people.

        It’s a little late to discuss where we should or shouldn’t had done at this point.

        We needed that discussion back in October of 2008.

        GM is not an Obama victory! ~ GM and all of it’s supporting interest have just got lucky with the direction the prevailing political wind was blowing.

        It’s not much more complicated then that.

        As far and wanting to diminish GM’s rebound & recovery, you might be right Meteorlady, maybe it a hype, an illusion, a massaging of the numbers. If so, we’ll know soon enough.

        I would think, they are being watched rather closely, all things considered.

  • Mike in Vegas

    In my mind, it’s immaterial whether or not GM is now profitable. What I’m hacked off about is the fact that government money — meaning MY money and YOUR money — was robbed from paychecks to prop up the UAW and to make cars affordable in China. As long as the government continues “reward failure” with bailouts, the failed enterprises will never change their business model. Anyone with half a brain realizes what KILLED automaking in the United States: the UAW! As its power grew, management’s power shrunk, rendering management less and less able to pivot in the marketplace and keep costs down. Companies in free-market economies NEED to be allowed to fail. That’s what keeps everyone sharp and innovative. When you reward failure (with a government bailout) you get more of the same, and in this case that means a continuing excess of power in the innovation-crushing, price-hiking UAW. Had GM been allowed to go under, does anyone really believe that there would have been a car shortage? Of course not. Two scenarios would have prevented that from happening. First, other companies — those with successful business models — would have picked up the slack, which would have re-employed just about all of the GM workers who were laid off. And second, there was a chance that some bright entreprenuers somewhere would have stood up a new car company and done so in a right-to-work state, like Arizona or Nevada or Texas. This would have enabled car manufacturing WITHOUT THE UNION, and, accordingly, this new company would have kicked a**. This would have put pressure on the other car makers to jettison their union yokes, and the entire U.S. automaking industry could have started climbing back out of the hole and back toward worldwide dominance. But, no. Obama and his socialists felt it necessary to attain instant gratification, thus sustaining perpetual incompetence. If the U.S. automakers are ever going to rule the world again, they MUST not be rewarded for failure.

    • JC

      Absolutely right. Government dependence destroys both the laws of nature and the laws of economics.

      • denniso

        First, I wonder if you guys complained or called it socialism when Reagan bailed out Chrysler back in the early 80′s? Probably not,since Reagan was a Republican.

        Second,the country was on the verge of a total economic collapse when GM was failing,and their collapse would have pushed us closer to a depression,the like of which the world hasn’t seen. If the economy was in a normal mode when GM was on the brink,I doubt we would have saved them. You people just want to complain and blame

        • Meteorlady

          Read my questions to Bob Wire above and get back to me Denniso?

          • Denniso

            I doubt that you and are educated well enough in economics or high finance to pass judgement on the GM bailout. I’m willing to accept that I’m not,and that the majority of trained economists who praise it
            do know enough to have made the right decision…time will tell.

            Have you heard that the tarp has cost us much less than was initially thought? There is good news and if all the moaners would help w/ the economy we might already be back to normal,but no, they want to drag the economy down so they can hang Obvama w/ it.

      • Vicki

        Government dependence has no effect on the laws of nature or economics.

        The sun still rises in the east. Feathers still fall as fast as marbles in a vacuum in the same gravity well. Hot water still produces steam :)

        Supply/demand works as it always has. There is less supply of workers, less supply of items, more supply of dollars so the price of items goes up. :)

        • Denniso

          I think you’d better take an econ 101 course, then talk.

  • LyingDog

    There must be something extra special about a GM worker such that his or her job must be saved while millions more loose their job.

    What is so bad about a depression any way?

    Theivery? How could it be worse. I have had the most unbelievable thefts in the last 6 years. Scrap metal theft will convert a new lexus into a 800 dollar pile of scrap overnight. I have had nearly 500k dollars lost to theft. Kick the door in thefts are common here in the rural area where I reside also. Short of armed gangs on the prowl, theft could not be worse. If it were more frequent it would be better. Then, time sitting in wait would not be so long.

    Lack of money in circulation? Now. That can be a problem. I am sure the US would be better off without the credit cards, paypal, debit cards, and check system. Government could just print out and loan out the money to banks as is done now.

    At least in a depression, the lack of free $600 checks from the first to the third of each month would compel some of these dead woods back into the labor force because they do not have sense to do much more than man a broom.

  • Viktor Leben

    America would have been better off letting GM go under ! GM went under because they couldn’t make enough money. Why give them a second chance ? I didn’t get a second chance when I lost my job due to downsizing !!!

    All that money put into GM could have gone to the national debt …

  • meteorlady

    So we needed a new car. Started with the Ford Edge and liked what we saw and how it drove. Then we checked out GM offerings and found them to be inferior in quality for the money, so crossed them off, besides they still owe me, the taxpayer, money.

    Looked at a few other cars and found the KIA Sorento. Same as the Ford Edge pretty much, only the Ford was about $10,000 more for really what amounted to fit and finish. The KIA ran as well, was quiet, had a nice comfortable interior, and had most everything we needed. Feeling guilty, we studied up to see why so much difference in the Ford. Found that the Edge was manufactured in Ontario, Canada and that Ford opened a new high tech manufacturing plant in Brazil. Found that KIA just opened up a new high tech plant in Georgia to build….. drum roll please, the KIA Sorento. Now, why can they do this and Ford, GM and Chrysler can’t?

    Oh – we bought the KIA it’s 47% American parts, including engine and it has a 10 year warranty.

  • cynthia

    Your GM article was great except it left out one very important fact – Obama gave GM billions of dollars of tax breaks (special for GM) in order to make them look more profitable for the IPO.

    Obviously us taxpayers lost again with all the lost tax revenue.

  • Bob Wire

    ewoo! How can that be fair for Ford unless they got the same?

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