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Goshen College Bans ‘The Star-Spangled Banner’

June 8, 2011 by  

Goshen College Bans ‘The Star-Spangled Banner’

The Board of Directors at Goshen College, a private, pacifistic liberal arts college in Indiana, asked President James E. Brenneman to find an alternative to playing “The Star-Spangled Banner” at sporting events.

The Board concluded that playing the national anthem “compromised the ability of college constituents to advance the vision” of Goshen College, in which the institution strives “to be an influential leader in liberal arts education with a growing capacity to serve a theologically, politically, racially and ethnically diverse constituency both within and beyond the Mennonite church,” according to a press release.

The release stated: “Goshen College had not played ‘The Star-Spangled Banner’ prior to sporting events, since beginning to participate in intercollegiate athletics in 1957, although it was never officially banned from campus.”

The decision to move forward with the ban was not without controversy, even among the Board members, the release reported.

“Goshen College has been and remains a ministry of Mennonite Church USA with an enduring peace tradition,” Carlos Romero, executive director of the Mennonite Education Agency and an ex-officio member of the Board said, according to the press release. “The Board’s decision reflects a belief that faith and honoring country can co-exist without disturbing higher allegiances to God.”

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  • karolyn

    If they haven’t played it since 1957, why bother?

    • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

      karolyn:

      If its a private college there is not much what we can do,but a public college that is a different matter. I love The Star-Spangled Banner.It makes you proud to be an American.

      • http://naver samurai

        “In God is our trust” and “Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation” are found in the Star Spangled Banner. Ah yes. Francis Scott Key included God in our national anthem. More proof of this being a Christian nation. As far as Goshen College is concerned, about a 30 minute drive from my house, I’ll call them up tomorrow to ask them why are you screwing up? FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

        • Vagabond

          you might allso ask them if they have given any thought to moving to russia and if not why not, I am glad they are not even close to where I live,

        • eddie47d

          My apologies Samurai for I thought you lived in Indiana. Goshen is straight west of West Point in southeastern NY. Francis Scott Key also wrote religious hymns. One is “Before You Lord,We Bow” which we sang a few months ago.

          • eddie47d

            Samurai; Opps, wrong Goshen and you are correct.

          • http://naver samurai

            No problem. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Samurai,
            I wonder how many contributions they will get from TRUE Americans in the future, now that they have made this so public??? They should remember that what that music and song represent are the reason that they can object to the playing of it!!

          • http://naver samurai

            They’ll probably get none, but we’ll just have to wait and see. They may get a buch of libs to go there. Good comment JoeH. Keep up the good fight, fellow patriots! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

        • Kinetic1

          samurai,
          Given that the Mennonites are a Christian religion, I don’t think those passages have anything to do with their decision (if that was your point.) It seems more the point that their strict adherence to pacifism precludes them from supporting country over belief. I know my Lutheran Pastor ( a medic in the Army) refused to have the American flag in the chancel. The narthex was fine, but he felt that God and church came before country and the two should not share this sacred area.

          • Jay

            The institution strives “to be an influential leader in liberal arts education with a growing capacity to serve a theologically, politically, racially and ethnically diverse constituency both within and beyond the Mennonite church,”

            The above statement seems to be a contradiction. If the institution accommodates and serves a growing capacity of theologically, politically, racially and ethnically diverse constituency, then its logical to assume, that the proposal, that sparked the controversy, to find an alternative to playing “The Star-Spangled Banner, reveals, that there is among the group of constituents, I would venture to guess, patriotic American born citizens, that are not being accommodated! Hence, “The decision to move forward with the ban was not without controversy, even among the Board members, the release reported”. No big surprise there! So then, can the institution lay claim to the principal, that they are indeed diverse, much less accommodate all? it seems such is not the case. In my opinion, all this talk of diversity, and special consideration and accommodations, that is afforded to the diverse racial and ethnical community, at the expense of American born citizens, with the idea, so as to avoid insult to some, while at the same time insulting others, is nothing more then a pretence to further fashion America into a hegemony, thus rendering America no longer recognizable as to its former Identity. It appears that the same blueprint and strategy that were used to shape what is Canada today, a socialist multicultural entity, the same are being applied to transform America! This sort of political shenanigans are nothing more then a deliberate assault on Sovereignty with the ultimate goal to destroy it!!!

          • Kathy

            My ex-Lutheran pastor also took the American flag out of our Sanctuary and put it in the Narthex. He would also not allow our Boy Scout Troop to procede up the aisle with their flags during the Eagle Scout ceremony. He said we were not worshipping the flag and since the church is God’s living room, how many people have flags in their living rooms? Well I for one do have flags in my umbrella stand in our living room. This is another example of the progressives taking over our churches with their liberal ideas. As of last September our church closed – another example of spreading the wealth around. We had a lot of money but not many congregants and we were told others could use our money better and our hierachy closed us down. We could have fought it because our people owned the property, but couldn’t get them to stand up and fight. Guess you know I haven’t been able to walk into another church since then.

        • http://www.mightyfez.com MightyFez

          Their objections to the Star Spangled Banner has nothing to do with the fact that it mentions God or because they hate America. It all stems from mention of “Rockets Red Glare” & “Bombs Bursting in Air”. The Mennonites believe in pacifism, aka peace, and the mention of these things in the ANY SONG goes against the core believe of their religion.

          • http://naver samurai

            This is possible. Thanks for the info. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

      • Betty Marvin

        But here’s the kicker – They may be private, but they receive your and my tax dollars (just like any other college) through students who receive the Pell Grant and any other federally subsidized education monies. Sad to say, but this is my ALMA MATER (class of 1995), and this is the most revolting thing I’ve ever heard from them. The Mennonite Church comes from a looooong history of their ancestors seeking and having been granted religious freedom in this country. They have lived here and prospered (greatly) for generations for that very reason. And this is the way they thank the country??? Somehow, a faction has taken over the Mennonite Church that preaches that allegience to God and country are mutually exclusive – you cannot have both. I am beyond furious! If I could, I’d give them back my diploma. They are sooo far out of touch with reality that I think they have no idea how their constiuency will react. I truly hope they lose ALL funding!

        • Crystal

          Thanks Betty, I didn’t even think about how our tax dollars are being used.

        • eddie47d

          Betty; I would assume you got an excellent education without knowing about their policy about the National Anthem. I can’t imagine it hurt you one bit. The Mennonites stand for alot of things as do the Quakers,Jehovah Witnesses,Amish etc. They all have strong feelings about war,their families and government interference so be proud of your diploma and respect their religious values.The National Anthem brings up passions on many fronts and it is a rousing hymn but to some it is another government mandate that they are forced to accept.

          • Terry

            If they feel so “forced to accept” why are they still in existance?
            Our brave military are fighting for their freedom to exist. If they can’t honour and respect the flag, laws, country, and the people that protect their rights and freedoms the door is opened they can leave.

          • eddie47d

            Terry; Is your loyalty to a flag,a song or to God. “You will have no other gods before Me”

          • Terry

            Eddie
            Do I need to remind you that you would not be able to honour your God if it were not for the honouring of AMERICA. My husband’s family were ministers and landlords in China during the uprising. His parents were lucky enough to get out leaving their families behind and eventually made their way to America. His mother’s father, Reverend Wang, was imprisoned and fortunately he made it out alive. Their family records were destroyed, their property was taken and given to other people. They were given food (rice) coupons and cotton coupons for their work and existenance. So if you feel that it is so awful to thank God for the privileges given to you by allowing you to be in this GREAT shame on you. God Bless America and you.

          • Garym2

            Eddie – You left of a few; communists, fascists, socialists and all those that would prohibit any religion they don’t approve of. It’s the United States of America that permits their sorry asses to disrespect the very country providing their freedom. Sorry, these worthless maggots should go somewhere else until they appreciate the sacrifices made for them. Last but not least, they should read the story about the night that Francis Scott Key wrote our National Anthem. Our National Anthem represents a lot – and a whole lot more than then liberal’s will ever contribute.

          • Jay

            Eddie, God precedes all, yet all, God, Country and patriotic expression, are connected. Adherence must be to maintain proper sequential order. Yes?

          • Vigilant

            “The National Anthem brings up passions on many fronts and it is a rousing hymn but to some it is another government mandate that they are forced to accept.”

            eddie, what the hell planet do you live on? “Government mandate?” You’re positively balmy!

        • Kinetic1

          Betty,
          Why is it so hard to accept a religious group putting God before country? If, as many people on this site suggest will happen your government calls on you to recant your belief in Christ or be labeled a traitor to the U.S.A. will you give in? What if the 5 Catholic Supreme court judges decide that the Constitution is wrong and allows Catholicism to be the official church of theses United States? Will you convert (if you are not already Catholic?)

          • Michael J.

            Kinetic1.
            God before Country? Country before God? Either suggestion is like putting the proverbial “cart before the horse”, when each should instead share equal standing.

            It’s almost like asking which came first, “the chicken or the egg”? When the answer to this age old question is neither, they both evolved simultaneously. Which should also be the case between God and Country. Even though God has been around much longer, neither should have precedence. The foresight of our founders and the symbiotic forging of God and Country has been the adhesive that has held together our moral strength and fortitude. Let no man put asunder.

          • Jay

            God before country? Yes! God first without honouring country? Absolutely not!

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Michael J,
            Actually, if you believe your Bible, the chicken came before the egg. In the story of God creating this world, it is told that he said let the skies be filled with fowl. Therefore, the Chicken came first!

          • Jay

            JoeH, I know this will offend, but Evolution is such an idiotic theory! There are so many experts in the field that have absolutely no more faith in the theory. It surprises me that in this day and age of advanced science that this theory is still being considered, by those, non-the less, that understand absolutely nothing about the proper use science!!! Its just non-sense, or perhaps, just another religion, since it requires a great deal of human manufactured faith to believe in it! Yikes, here come the re-buttals, Flap jackets on!!!

          • http://naver samurai

            Right on Jay! Keep up the good fight, fellow patriots! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

      • http://skipandgeorgia.com skip

        Mary, Both one without the other would put us in the same shape as other countrys. Under a monarchye or communist way of life and if that is not go enough try living in Iran or France for 5 years you would soon see both.

      • http://deleted Claire

        coal miner: I agree.

    • James

      Karolyn, It seems they just want to pour salt in the wound.

    • Linda Eppinger – Texas

      I suggest that they play ” GOD BLESS AMERICA “

    • slapjack

      I say, if you don’t like THE STAR SPANGLED BANNER get you sorry worthless asses out of this country. I’m sick of these maggots and the liberal stupidity they vomit on us.

      • http://skipandgeorgia.com skip

        Well said slapjack

    • Jay

      If they haven’t played it since 1957, why bother banning it?

  • Billy Smith

    Dumb, ignorant people have no business running a college.

  • wasadoc

    And to think of the 12 yrs I gave my country (plus my health) so people like these could exist.

  • Nancy Miller

    I really wish that when ignorant people make decisions such as this, that their names and addresses are printed along with the decision that they made.

    Let’s see how firm their ideas are!

    • Roadkill

      Nancy, some people are still alive only because it is currently illegal to kill dumbasses.

      • Cawmun Cents

        As soon as they change that law,the gubment buildings and courthouses will resemble the old shooting galleries like at the carnival when we was kids.Of course,armed only with ten round clips,I will have to watch you do most of the shooting Mr.Roadkill.-CC.

        • Gregg Weber

          It is talk and writing like this that the left uses against us. Badthink might not as yet be a “crime” but what one says or writes can be used against them.

          • Cawmun Cents

            I hate to be the bearer of bad news Mr.Weber,but when it comes to jest,I am unapologetic.They may arrest me,they may indict me,they may even kill me,but I will speak my mind.(freely I might add)Also,since I do not fear the politburo(as I would rather die speaking as I wish, rather than sit fearing reprisal)I will annunciate forthwith.Thank you for calling-CC.

          • JeffH

            Cawmun Cents, hear hear. You have nothing to fear but fear itself…and a tyranical guvment.

      • Vagabond

        AMEN Roadkill. and so very true,

  • chuck

    What a bunch of wackos first you can not pray before a sportong event asking no one gets hurt now you can not play the national anthem. how doese this song get in the way of anything. If they are so peacefull and non violent then why have football at all at this college. idiots plan and simple. i guess thats why it’s a Liberal arts college LOL

    • James

      Chuck, The flag represents nationalism, the antipathy of one-worldism. National borders are being dissolved (e.g., the ECU)and for all practical purposes our borders, especially the southern one, are non-existant. The North American Union is next, with our dollar being replaced by the Amero. That’s why it’s being spent out of existence.

    • Vagabond

      Chuck the football games brings in a lot of money doncha know,

    • violet

      They don’t have a football program! They are a small college of only 1000 students. Basketball, soccer, baseball and the such.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        violet,
        At one soccer game I saw a kid dislocate his knee! I would pray before an event if I felt like it and if they don’t like it, they can kiss the dark side!!!

        • http://naver samurai

          100% agree. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

  • http://gunner689 gunner689

    What a pity if parents quit sending their children there for indoctrination, I mean education. The liberal profs there could spent their time exchanging socialist theroies.

    • eddie47d

      Jerry Falwell made some controversial comments and lashed out against certain Americans so Conservatives are never as pure as they think they are. Every college has controversy at some time in their history. Few of you believe in allegiance/respect to the Presidency so maybe you are the ones who set the tone for what you perceive as anti-Americanism. Since the Star Spangled Banner hasn’t been played for 54 years at this college why get upset over it now.I doubt if any of you would be attending any of their games anyway whether they played it or not. Back in the 60′s the Star Spangled Banner was considered a war mongering song (bombs bursting in air) and offensive to some. Some wanted America The Beautiful to be our National Anthem and thought it better described our nation. As much as we hear the Star Spangled Banner I doubt if it will be going anywhere. So no need to have a panic attack.

      • Cawmun Cents

        Gee eddie47d,I hadnt realized that you were so sensitive to the words of Francis Scott Key.Wow…If you might be offended,then maybe I shouldnt sing the Star Spangled Banner at sporting events.Oh yes …and while we are talking about it,lets not say the pledge of allegiance either.After all if I want democracy instead of republic,I might be offended at the content of the whole thing.Yep…lets take God out of the pledge too.I might be offended at the term God.We took Him out of the schools and look what great shape they are in now.I am left handed,and I am offended that I must make a military salute using my right hand….I smell an ACLU lawsuit brewing.Hey when I am in court and they tell me to raise my right hand to be sworn in….I’ll just engineer a sit-in to protest that because they are obviously not considering my left-handedness.The baliff is going to have his work cut out for him that day,I can tell you that.Come to think of it…I am offended that signs arent posted in every language on earth.From now on I say that all signs must be in all languages,becuase otherwise it is clearly discrimination…..

        • http://yahoo.com sharon

          ACLU another commie organization that needs to be run out of the US dirty commies and radical nutjobs trying to help Obama take down America.

        • http://yahoo.com sharon

          Obama and his commie goons are taking America down with trash like banning the flag, our songs, god, and the list goes on, they have the commie ACLU helping him and his goon squad the czars he hired.

          • Kinetic1

            And there it is folks! At 9:32 am pst, President Obama officially became responsible for banning the Star Spangled Banner from Goshen football games. What will he do next?

          • eddie47d

            Marcy Bonebright was allowed to put her article on the Livingston site for the simple reason for some of you to bash Obama. It worked as always. You say we have personal liberties yet you attack this private school like it can’t make it’s own choices. You want to force things on schools ,no differently that some liberals who want to take away the right of some students to pray in school. It all comes down to a power play by either side to force their beliefs on someone else.

          • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

            Dear eddie47d,

            That’s quite an incoherent leap you made.

            Best wishes,
            Bob

          • Michael J.

            Eddie47d,
            What a queer imagination you have. Spinmeister extrodinare is not not a title highly sought after, yet you persist in achieving it.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Michael J,
            well, you definately got the TYPE of imagination right!!!

        • JeffH

          eddie says, “Back in the 60′s the Star Spangled Banner was considered a war mongering song (bombs bursting in air) and offensive to some.”

          It seems while some of us have been sleeping, those that were offended by the Star Spangled Banner back in the 60′s have infiltrated our guvment and our schools and some of our minds. Bill Ayers, Bernardine Dohrn, Bill Clinton, Hillary and the rest of the Weather Underground must be jumping for joy.

      • http://yahoo.com sharon

        Until we stand up and start fighting these commies, they will do as they please in America, we must stand up America or they are going to take America down, they have already begun there terror campaign on our kids.

      • Vagabond

        yes eddie you are right about the sixties. the era which spawned the likes of jane fonda tom hayden bill slick willie clinton and so many other protesting draft card burning SLIMEBALLS,

        • eddie47d

          Look at all the supporters of the Vietnam War (at least Vagabond). We got into that war under false pretenses too. No different than Bush in Iraq and Obama in Libya. Yet so many of you say we shouldn’t be in the Middle East and that money could be better spent at home. Are those who spoke out against the Vietnam War bad people and those who speak out on our Middle East involvement for the same reasons good patriotic people. Is that the height of hypocrisy or are they all good foreign entanglements?

          • Kinetic1

            You know Eddie, I never thought I’d see the day when peace, love and forgiveness would become un-American. Not everything about the 60s peace movement was good, but I’d sure feel a lot better if today’s music were talking about ending war instead of “‘put(‘n) a boot in your ass, It’s the american way.” Yes, we may need to respond to attacks with force and I respect that, but what have we gained by attacking Iraq and Lybia?

          • Cawmun Centso

            Heck my brother video taped the CNN footage of the Gulf war,and if you have the popcorn and the coca-cola,I have the noisemakers and the HDTV.Come on over eddie47d,and we can watch all 14 days worth of 24hr fun.-CC.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Eddie,
            i don’t give a dam about them speaking out against the war, they were right. what I care about is the way they treat the soldiers!!! Were you one of them that stood in the airport calling the returning soldiers baby killers and woman killers?? did you spit on them, boy??
            I don’t care if you support the war or not, but support for our troops who would fight for YOUR freedoms anywhere in the world is not only proper, it is a necessity!!!

          • http://deleted Claire

            JoeH– I agree with you 100%. Support our troops! And their families!! And take care of our veterans!!

          • http://naver samurai

            I agree with you Claire and JoeH. Let’s support the veterans, families, and soldiers. My uncle was with the air force and they just came back home after fighting during the Tet Offensive. As they were moving towards the buses to take them to Lacklund AFB, a person came out of the crowd and threw an egg. It hit one of their personnel square in the chest. Needless to say, the airman in question gave the piece of crap the proper military response, by chasing him down and whomping his backside. My uncle had to drag him off of the person, some long haired freak. As far as my uncle knows, the person was never seen in San Antonio again. I give that airman two thumbs up on his appropriate actions in that situation. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Master Gunny

            Quote: “My country may she ever be right, but my country right or wrong.” Stephen Decater

            We arm chair generals pass judgement on leaders for what we think are their bad decisions with a vitrol which is truly unnerving. We sit in hindsight of decisions that were made in the maelstrom of momentous events by mere mortals like ourselves and pass judgement with glib disregard for our ignorance of all that went on while those decisions were made.

            Even the current CinC deserves some benefit of doubt regarding decisions he has made because he is privy to facts that we will never know. Perhaps many decisions were made in haste or with imperfect information. Perhaps some were made with cynical disregard for the lives of the men who went to battle based on the decisions of the president but we will never know for sure.

            What I am suggesting is that we exercise a little restraint and circumspection before making harsh judgements on men upon whom the burden of command has fallen.

      • eddie47d

        Cawmun cents; You’ll need a mighty big sign for all those languages along our roads! Was that your attempt at humor or a personal exaggeration? Besides that I never said I didn’t like the Star Spangled Banner only that it was discussed many years ago. I’m glad I made your day with your silliness.

        • Grumpy old man

          There is a powerful tendency these days for men to want to appear to be, above all things, tolerant. But G.K. Chesterton said it best when he said that tolerance is the virtue of a man without convictions. It might also be said that tolerance is the virtue of a man without salvation. Every man must choose between Truth and tolerance. He cannot choose both and expect to dine at the Great Supper.
          Kevin

        • Cawmun Centso

          Tell you what….we can make them signs a thousand feet tall.Seperate the languages into groups,and them folks can understand no matter where they come from.Doesnt that sound like a good leftist plan Eddie47d?

          • eddie47d

            Whatever!

      • Allan Halbert

        If it hadn’t been played in 57 years, it was STUPID to make the policy and piss people off unnecessarily. The destruction of traditions is a necessary step in the progression toward a global order. All hail political correctness.

  • rafael

    GOSHEN COLLEGE GET THE HELL OUT OF MY COUNTRY.

    • Curis

      Whatever happened to Freedom of Religion? The Mennonite form of Christianity, like the Hutterites, the Amish, the Quakers and Jehovah Witnesses to name a few, is a pacifist religion that doesn’t recognize government.
      Too many people here claim to be tolerant Christians yet they are attacking their fellow Christians for their beliefs. Are you “pretend” Christians or just stark raving hypocrites?

      • Allan Halbert

        If they don’t recognize government, they should not depend on federal loans and grants to help students cover the $32,000 cost per year. Without access to government funding support for its students, the college would probably dry up and blow away.

  • http://yahoo Ruth

    They get away with it because no one speaks out about it. Where’s the outrage or the outrage about Delta charging our troops for extra baggage. Imagine the nerve of the airlines?

    • JannyP

      Oh Ruth, Delta received an earful and were made to see their errant ways! Good choice Delta. Don’t mess with our soldier’s. We, the people
      are taking a stand.

  • bILL .H.

    One way to fight this type of thing is for the schools that play them normally to refuse the game—–bet that would get their attention.

    • http://?? Joe H.

      biLL.H.,
      That’s not a bad Idea, but tell the refs right before the beginning of the game that you are not going to participate till the Star Spangled Banner is played according to YOUR beliefs!!!

  • Former Walmart person

    Hats off to them for exercising their free speech rights. The american empire is really about evil warmongering for the military industrial complex anyway. If anyone here believes that building 7 collapsed on 911 due to simple desk and wall board fires, I have a prime time share to sell you in Florida.

    All you people poo pooing on this PRIVATE colledge for not playing the star spangled should immediately go sign up to go fight in Iraq for your neocon country. Have fun getting your leg blown off by an IED that was probably paid for by your own government.

    • Push comes to shove

      WTF dude

      why don’t you go live in another country you can find pride, bet you can’t find on ewith that attitude. What other country comes to the aid of ANY country in need of it?

      answer: The good ole UNITED STATES of AMERICA, thats who

      That was a piece of crap comment you commie

      • James

        Push, I think you missed Former Walmart’s point. He was maligning our war-mongering presidents, not the United States. And he was right about WTC 7, it fell in 6.5 seconds, just a tad slower than free fall. Only controlled demolition can bring down a steel-framed building like that. The 571-page 9/11 Commission Report never even mentioned WTC 7, because, without controlled demolition, one the NIST questions: “Why did WTC 7 collapse?” had no answer.

        • Push comes to shove

          James,

          First off let Wally World person say that for himself, after rereading his post i still do not get that.

          Secondly, I just have been able to chew and swallow that WTC-7 stuff yet. Too many people would have to be involved in a conspiracy such as that and with any number of people in a group there is always one person who intentionally tells the truth or slips up and lets the cat out of the bag and after ten years that has not happened.

          The thing is, is that things happen all the time that seem improbable but it still happens, ever watched ‘I Should not be Alive’?

          • Push comes to shove

            Should have siad: “secondly i have NOT been…..”

          • James

            Push, WTC 7 had 81 steel columns, 24 core columns and 57 perimeter columns. Steel melts at 2800 degrees Fahrenheit, and for 3 and 4 weeks after 9/11, molten pools of steel were in the bulding’s basement. The 9/11 Commission Report concentrated on explaining how and why the twin towers fell but didn’t even mention building 7. No steel-framed building has ever fallen down because of fire, that’s why high rise buildings are constructed that way. Even if the fire had been hot enough to weaken the columns, the bulding would not have fallen straight down, it would have rather leaned, and slowly fallen towards the path of least resistance. For the building to fall straight down, all steel columns would have had to reach the same point of weakness simulataneously, which a random fire, such as was reported, was incapable of achieving.

        • http://?? Joe H.

          James,
          I think YOU missed the biggest problem with FWPs post. In the last paragraph he tells people to go serve in Iraq. Well, I and a lot of others here HAVE served our country, myself in VietNam for eighteen months. Where the heck has HE served??? He should practice what he preaches and then maybe HE will appreciate what the FLAG and THE STAR SPANGLED BANNER STANDS FOR!!!!

          • James

            JoeH. I agree, without a flag there’s nothing that represent’s a country. I’m a Purple-Heart Koream War veteran, was there in 1951.

    • http://naver samurai

      Are we dipping into our stash of pokey bait again? FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

    • Vagabond

      you are just too STUPID to be let out in public. I spent over twenty years in the service of my country protecting the rights of IDIOTS like you to spew your hatred of this country, why dont you move to iran or russia SLIMEBALL?

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Vagabond,
        There is an old saying that only he who has been horizontal for a period appreciates being vertical!!!

    • Terry

      How egotisical, ignorant and cowardly of you to belittle the brave men and women who have fought to keep you safe and free. How old are you? I would bet that you have never left this country. I would bet that you have never gone to Europe touring the concentration camps, the HOUSE of HORROR, or the shores of Normandy. I would bet that you have never been to China where you don’t have many choices. last year I was told by a 26 year old Xian, tour guide, (college educated engineer), that things are much better than 8-10 years ago when he would only have 1 meal /day and how fortunate that he was at least able to get an education, (how ever there were no jobs available in his field at that time.). I would also bet that you are young and have been a product of this sad educational system. People like you should be given a one way ticket to the country of your choice and then you can fight to get back or enjoy the life that you think is so GREAT in the country of your choice.

      • violet

        Over 80% of Goshen College’s students travel abroad during their studies and spend a semester living in another country; including china and in the past cuba, nicaragua, peru, germany, the ivory coast, egypt,the dominican republic and many others.

        • http://?? Joe H.

          violet,
          WOW!! A whole semester?!?!?! Let’s see, I spent three years in Germany, eighteen months in Vietnam, A year in the Canal zone, and about three weeks flying every day into Laos!!! How do those guys tolerate a whole semester???

          • eddie47d

            Thanks for your service Joe but not everyone is into killing for their country. I doubt if that makes them better or worse for serving differently and since we now have an all volunteer Army even fewer will wear a military uniform.

          • mickey

            Well, Eddie, I would die for this country. OTOH I am respectful of those who refuse to fight in these military complex wars. If the school is really against war, then protest the current war, not our core traditions.

            Viet Nam was an eye opener. It was continued by the likes of Kissinger advising Nixon he would lose face it not continued. Some reason for killing off US soldiers.

            I had two sons at the time of the Kuwait event. One was in Kuwait and the other asked me how I could support him when the US was scorching millions of people who could not defend themselves. While I agreed with the one against the war, my thought at the time was which son could I depend on to defend me or to help me if times got rough. The one in Kuwait would give his life for me; the other one wouldn’t.

    • mickey

      I put off any conspiracy theory about the towers until, one, I visited the site, two, reviewed tape after tape of air crashes.

      People that have never been to NY don’t realize a city block is very small there. The church in the video is little more than an alley way from the towers. To have those buildings come down with no more damage to the surrounding areas would have to be a miracle–unless it was a controlled demolition. Then throw in Bldg 7.

      I live on about the same amount of ground as the towers occupied, except it is farm ground. I fail to realize how any building I have taken would not have spread to the field in such close proximity.

      Then I looked at the Pentagon. For that plane to hit at ground level, it would have had to come over a freeway almost at street level yet no cars were taken out. Then the wing span (remember the towers had the wing hits visible) was not visible and the damage only as wide as my house????

      Its hard to think that our government would do such a thing to the US but then I suppose it was hard for Austria too in a different time. Then add in bin Laden, ten years after the fact. A man on dialysis–prolonged time–without 3 visits a week???? For how many years???? and couldn’t be found until political ratings were down? bin Laden, if the health reports were true, should have been found with amputated legs and blind. Some victory, shooting a blind man in the eye.

      So what do we have with any of these events except more preemptive bombings any where in the world. Thousands more dead than ever happened in the Towers and discourse in the mid-east that I have never seen in 60 plus years.

      We have an invasion of our country with the blessing of our government. We have more labor than we can employ with more labor being bought and sold every day.

      This school maybe indicative of what we have become; however, I look at it not as a solution to the problem but as part of the problem. Our core values of the anthem is to fight when we need to, not whenever ratings are down or an administration wants to nation build. For this reason, the anthem should be song over and over until government gets we only fight when necessary, not just to have bombs bursting in air.

  • Pat

    While it is not required by law to play the national anthem and show tribute to this country that provides them freedom and opportunity, it is a moral obligation to show that tribute. Since they claim to be morally superior to the rest of us, you would think they would understand this concept. If they don’t believe in this country and what it stands for, they should take their community and their attitude somewhere else on the globe and leave America to those of us who appreciate what she has to offer and are ready to defend it.

    • Ellen

      Liberals’ ignorance is destroying this country. These kids will probably all be spoonfed the Obama doctrine and believe in it because they are young & idealistic. Morals, values & common sense simply don’t exist in their environment.

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Ellen,
        If things continue the way they are going, the Nobummer doctrine won’t be around much longer. I saw a poll today that says 49% of the voters would vote for someone else and 43% would vote for him again. Well, seeing as how the economy is in its 5th week of downturn, The number voting for him will only go lower!!! Praise Almighty GOD!!!

    • YankeeClipper

      The problem is that these people have never been anywhere else in the world to see what it’s really like to live under the boot of a dictator (in whatever form that takes). I’m showing my age here, but in my youth I lived behind the Soviet Union’s “Iron Curtain” and I remember first hand what it was like. I can guarantee that anyone who has never experienced this has no clue as to what it is like. “Horrible” does not even come close, and yet these people would have us believe that liberalism and the state are the answer to everything. Nothing like displaying their ignorance and stupidity to the world…

  • Push comes to shove

    What has happened to pride in GOD and country?

    Just look to the north, you will not find many Canadian people not singing the national when it is played, but look around and only about half of our countrymen are singing along or placing thier hands over their hearts, and some do not even remove their hats.

    Take away our pride in our country and our way of life and we are easier to control.

    These people are JACK A$$E$

  • iam

    I would serve them right if we were to ban Goshen College.

    • Push comes to shove

      They are on my list of Higher, i mean lower, education places my son will not be attending.

  • YankeeClipper

    What these liberal idealogs (read: “idiots”) at Goshan & other institutions of “higher learning” don’t realize is that there are actually people in this world who do have pride in their country and/or their way of life and will fight for that. Case in point: the radical Muslims. They have a fierce pride in themselves. If we don’t have the same pride in our way of life and are willing to defend it, then we are sunk as a nation. Undermining people’s willingness display that pride (by doing things like singing the National Anthem) kills their spirit, which is exactly what these numbskulls at Goshen want — a group of sheeple who wouldn’t be able to defend themselves if someone threw a water balloon at them.

    • http://yahoo.com sharon

      dirty muslims run this school, why are these animals allowed to run a school, they should be thrown out of the US pigs shouldn’t be here to begin with.

      • Curis

        Whoa Sharon… calm down, you’re freaking out for no reason. Mennonites are Christians NOT Muslims. Their form of Christianity was formed in the 16th century and like the Amish and Hutterites, the Mennonites are Anabaptists. Anabaptists shun some common Christian practices like the wearing wedding rings, taking oaths, and participating in civil government. Their lack of participation in civil government (like Jehovah Witnesses) is why they don’t play the anthem. They are definitely not Communists (that’s politics) and they most certainly aren’t Muslims.

        • YankeeClipper

          Interesting facts to know, Curis. The Goshenites may not be Muslims, however, if they don’t participate in civil government, that means that they take zero funds from any government entity (local, state or national) for any school-related expense including student loans or grants, tax breaks for being a school, funding for research, etc. Not trying to poke holes in your baloon, Curis, I’m just saying that if the Goshen College people do take any funding of any sort, then they are going against their Anabaptist traditions when it is to their advantage. Typical liberals, couldn’t stick to a principle even to save their lives…

          • Curtis

            Hey YankeeClipper… how do you go from “IF” they take government funding to calling them “typical liberals”? Until you have confirmed that Goshen College takes any form of government funding, your accusation that they are “unprincipled liberals” is premature and nothing but unfounded, unfair and unwarranted speculation. We should find the smoking gun first and find out how much, if any, government money they receive, before we leap to conclusions and start with the name calling.
            (By the way it’s Curtis… pretty sad when you can’t spell your own name in the morning!)

          • YankeeClipper

            Hey Curtis — Just giving the typical “unprincipled liberals” their due in kind — how many unfounded, unresearched and untrue attacks have there been against conservatives in this country over the last 50 years in order to push the liberal agenda? Did I jump to conclusions? You betcha, but I am judging them by their actions. It does not matter what religion they are; it is a sign of respect to be proud to live in the greatest nation the world has ever known. To force people to NOT partake in the playing/singing of out National Anthem is the same as forcing them TO partake. Liberals don’t like to be forced to partake in singing/playing the anthem — conservatives don’t like being forced not to. By the way — good post about the Flyers (I’m a Bruins fan myself — hope they win this year, heehee!).

          • Curtis

            Hey Yankee Clipper… I understand your frustration, but I think it’s imperative that we take the higher ground and not stoop to the level of unfounded and untrue attacks. I think true context of this story has been buried. They hadn’t played the national anthem since 1957 and briefly reinstated the anthem in January ’10 before reaffirming that it was contrary to their beliefs in February of this year. They’ve been doing it this way for over half a century, why is it suddenly an issue?
            I agree with your comment about respect. As I mentioned in a previous post, I had a classmate who would leave the classroom for the playing of the national anthem. While it may have been contrary to her Jehovah Witness religion, it was an empty gesture because the anthem was played in the hallways too. She would return to class for the recitation of the Lord’s Prayer. Even in high school I was an atheist, but I chose to bow my head and show respect to my classmates instead of marching out to the hallway. Respect, understanding and tolerance is what peace is truly about. (Clear boundaries and carrying a big stick helps too.) By the way… good luck to your Bruins, like Goshen College, perhaps the Bruins should switch to God Bless America.

          • YankeeClipper

            Hey, Curtis. Exactly right — respect, understanding and tolerance — have you ever noticed that when liberals speak of tolerance, they seem to mean tolerance for the things that they want to espouse, but produce massive amounts of intolerance to people who don’t think or act like them? How much violence has been perpetrated against people who are not liberal in their political views? You and I are at opposite ends of the spectrum with respect to religion — judging from your post that you are (or were) an atheist but you and I can agree that to force people to do things against their will is un-American, and I believe that this is what this outcry is all about. Why now after 57 years? Who knows? The point is that is has come to light and must be addressed & debated because it seems to be an issue that is at serious odds with the core of our belief system — the American way of doing things. However, sometimes a little intolerance is necessary, and what I am intolerant of is not the induviduals of Goshen, but their mindset. If they want to separate church & state (which is NOT in the Constitution, by the way), that is their privilege as a private college. What I object to is their forcing of their views on their visiting teams and the supporters of those teams who may want the National Anthem played. Also, not a bad idea, having the Bruins do God Bless America before their games. Couldn’t hurt!

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Curtis,
            I not too sure about the jehovas not participating in government. I know of a few that are as we converse, getting unemployment!! I also know a couple that vote!!

  • http://yahoo.com sharon

    the school must be run by dirty commies I wouldn’t let my kid go there, bunch of dirty commies, marxists and radical fascists. You know if they hate our national song they are dirty commies, they should leave the US

  • http://yahoo.com sharon

    commies I wouldn’t send my child to this college no telling who these people are that run it now, commie or worse

  • Joey Biden

    This is just part of the slow erosion of America’s traditions and values perpertrated by idiots, liberals and anti-Americans. As true Americans we must call them out and put a stop to it.

    • http://yahoo.com sharon

      I agree we must stand up to the commie and radicals who want to take down America, it appears the senate and congress won’t.

  • former walmart person

    Screw the war on terror. Far more people die in their own cars here in America, but I don’t hear screams to impose a 35 mph national speed limit, and I don’t see NATO organizing air strikes against car dealerships and DMVs. If the whole goal is saving American life, then why do we ignore trying to use draconion laws to curtail traffic accidents?

    • http://yahoo.com sharon

      What a fool you are, you think we should just ignore the war on America, another idiot who votes that is why we are going down fools like you.

    • Doug

      You can make the speed limit 5MPH and people would still get killed. You are a F**** idiot. The reason there are so many accidents is because 95% of the people can’t drive they are too stupid. Just like all the laws passed that keep stupid people alive then they pass on their stupid genes you Walmart Stain is a prime example!

    • Vagabond

      spoken just like an IDIOT

    • Joey Biden

      Where do you live? Disneyland?

    • http://naver samurai

      Are we still scratching our backsides and sniffing our fingers? Do you really have to show us you like throwing feces and swinging from a rubber tire. This person is a perfect example of “monkey tools.” FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

  • Curis

    When I went to high school the national anthem was played at the start of each school day. Prior to the playing of the national anthem through the school’s intercom, a girl in my class would go out into the hallway because national anthems were against her religion, and we respected that. (To me it was an empty gesture… the anthem could be heard in the hallways too. I thought she could have remained in class and showed her classmates some respect.) If this college refuses to play the anthem for religious purposes… so be it, they are free to practice their form of Christianity. However, like Linda from Texas posted previously they should at least play God Bless America and I think that would be a fair compromise. (I remember the Philadelphia Flyers didn’t play the national anthem before their hockey games… they had Kate Smith sing an amazing version God Bless America… and they won two Stanley Cups with her inspiring renditions!)

    • Allan Halbert

      They are only “free to practice” because they have a country. Can’t have it both ways unless we are a liberal. My favorite example is that hating America is not “hate speech”.

  • Big Mike

    It took 54 years for this story to break? That’s REALLY what I call a slow news day!

    • http://?? Joe H.

      Big Mike,
      If you read a little closer and do a little research, you will find the Anthem was reinstated in ’10!! they just reaffirmed their assault on the Anthem again this year!! It was in the news yesterday or the day before!

  • Alice

    Stop complaining and call on Congress to stop all federal funds from going to students for grants (copied from above….. they may be private, but they receive your and my tax dollars (just like any other college) through students who receive the Pell Grant and any other federally subsidized education monies).

    • Allan Halbert

      Absoultely!

  • Bruce USA

    Why doesn’t this college find an alternative country to reside in???

    • Joey Biden

      Excellent idea!

  • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

    I don’t get it The Star-Spangled Banner has always been at sporting events.What are are these people thinking?

    Politics Education Business Sports Lawmakers Tue., June 7, 2011 12:30pm (EDT)
    Goshen College Bans National Anthem At Sporting Events By Eyder Peralta Updated: 23 hours ago
    The American Flag blows in the wind off the back of the Ellis Island/Liberty Island Ferry with the Statue of Liberty in the background.Back in January, Goshen College, a small liberal arts school in Indiana, decided to allow its college’s Athletic Department to play an instrumental version of the Star-Spangled Banner before sporting events.

    But yesterday, reports the Chronicle of Higher Education, in “response to complaints from students, faculty members and alumni,” the school’s board of directors barred the practice.

    In a press release, the board said it was a tough decision that took a lot of discussion. Even so, the board acknowledged it was bound to be a controversial one. Goshen is a ministry of the Mennonite Church USA, but the church, the press release noted, does not have a policy on the national anthem.

    “Goshen College has been and remains a ministry of Mennonite Church USA with an enduring peace tradition,” Carlos Romero, executive director of the Mennonite Education Agency said in a statement. “The Board’s decision reflects a belief that faith and honoring country can co-exist without disturbing higher allegiances to God and that Goshen College will become increasingly diverse and will welcome diverse viewpoints.”

    The board has asked the school’s president to find an alternative to playing the national anthem.

    The Chronicle of Higher Education reports the school first changed its policy to be more welcoming to visiting teams, “but the decision sparked resistance from some who believe the hymn glorifies war and distracts from the college’s Christian values.”

    Copyright 2011 National Public Radio. To see more, visit http://www.npr.org/.

    ©Copyright 2011, Georgia Public Broadcasting. All Rights Reserved

    • YankeeClipper

      “Disturbing higher allegiances to God”!?!?!?!? What disturbs me is that someone would even say that. What higher allegiance is there — no matter what God you pray to (even the State God, for those you who believe in that sort of thing)???

    • JannyP

      Very enlightening. My gut tells me Goshen received a visit from the ACLU or similar thuggery to help them with their “tough decision.”
      Freedom being taken away, a little here a little there.

      • mickey

        Yes, freedom but not the funds to undermine it. Ironic.

  • Thor

    Well…the Mennonites have been a bit confused since the 16th century, and it looks like nothing has changed since. Oh…and edward four seven, ‘purity’ is not a subject you can speak of with much authority.

  • fred

    ARE YOU KIDDING ME!?!? If it wasn’t for our military who have the internal fortitude and patriotism for this country, these fools would not have the CHOICE of banning our national anthem. GOSHEN COLLEGE IS A DISGRACE TO THIS GREAT COUNTRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • fred

    ARE YOU KIDDING ME????? IF IT WASN’T FOR THE PATRIOTISM AND THE SHEER GUTS OF OUR MILITARY, THESE IDIOTS WOULD NOT HAVE A CHOICE OF BANNING OUR NATIONAL ANTHEM. GOSHEN COLLEGE IS A DISGRACE TO THIS GREAT COUNTRY!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • TERRY HARMON

    It does not matter if is a private school or public school it’s still here in America. Now by not letting the song since 1957 and these jaspers want to ban it intirely. Maybe the school should shut down. This down right unamerican. I think we should have this borad of directors kicked in the rearends. We should have the school’s right to be a college be stripped and no for funds from grants of anykind come in to the school for the students. Now there will be folks out here in the USA say idea would be hurting the student. So what. We are have gone to hell and taken our handbasket with us.

    These people should be ashamed of themselves for (1) not playing anthem at sporting events.(2) Tell the church group to get out of the state which they are from . (3) WAKE UP AND SMELL THE ROSES. I said for one reason , the staff and the students at this school should be upset with the school officals for being so stupid.Forget about be poltical correct about what do ,say, or even think. This scool should be banned period!The college’s borad be ask to step down and are the old and new people ask to resign as quickly as they can. And the doors to the school locked up and the bulldosiers come in and tear it down.
    We in the USA have forgotten about the meaning of the song. Just think about men and women have who have given life and limb to have to come home and see this kind of news online or on the evening news that school and other things besides all that is wrong with this nation ,that these men and women say “I came back for this ” and what did I go fight for”? Well I guess that is what we get for allowing our fighting men and women to die or even coming home with no eyes, arms,legs, and some of them just to die from their wounds.And to think that a college since 1957 will not play the anthem at sporting events. Do they allow the bible on the teacher’s desk?

    • mickey

      Pretty disrespectful to visiting teams, but I guess the goal is diversification not unification. What next, Sharia Law? Hmmm I wonder if the school would think it appropriate to ask us “warmongers” to intercede on their behalf if Sharia takes over.

      I have nothing against religious schools for I have seen remarkable things happen to students who attend these schools. I do have a problem with disrespect for the nation and its people.

      I wonder, though, should a visiting school event include a Canadian team, would it show respect by playing the Canadian anthem–like we do at other sporting events?

      After all, the school is anthemless during any day except for sports so what is the opposition to respecting the rest of the US at a sports event?

  • Bob from Calif.

    Goshen college sounds like it is becoming more secular than christian. Don’t fear man Goshen.

  • bohemian

    I guess the boneheads running the place never considered that battles like the one that inspired the Star-Spangled Banner are the reason we have the freedoms we have today.
    What other country has the immigration problems that we have, where people wait for years, or risk their lives to enter? Name one. Maybe Goshen College should set up shop elsewhere and make room for people who would appreciate being here.
    Freedom is not free; pacifists end up being slaves, unless there is a Country like the USA to defend them. I agree with fred above.

    • eddie47d

      Goshen College shouldn’t go anywhere as far as your comment that pacifists end up being slaves. I could say warmongers are always looking for an excuse for war. That is what they do best and they entice the majority to follow their foolishness like pied pipers taking a country over a cliff. Wars create enemies no matter which side you are on and the bitterness lingers for decades and centuries.When the war drums are beat you all silence those who oppose those wars and reason is defeated. Don’t use the Star Spangled Banner as an excuse for further military adventures. It may be an important hymn in our heritage but hardly a call to arms for our police actions.

  • Terry

    Has anybody else gone on the Goshen web site? Have you noticed: 1. they do get Federal monies for their 922 student body, 90% of which are on financial aid. 2. Their radio station is called THE GLOBE and the station call numbers are 91.1. I find this VERY interesting since they are concerned about offending their students with the STAR SPANGLED BANNER…

    • JannyP

      TERRY. Thanks for the info. Hit Goshen in the POCKET BOOK. Hope it is
      painful.

  • GenRELEE

    They have not played it in 54 years?!!! So please realize that this is being pushed by some school admin or fac mbr(s) who are suffering feelings of non accomplishment and inadeqacy. They think their 1/2 nano-second of fame will deliver them from their depression. Too bad they are not using the energy being spent on this drival for better educational opportunities for their students.

    • http://?? Joe H.

      GenRELEE,
      Read a little closer!!! They reinstated the Anthem in 2010!!!! Get it straight!!

  • ONTIME

    If this pacifist clown college is collecting any kind of government assistance, then they need to be reminded they can give it up or stay in accordance with the laws for public assistance.

  • http://personallibertydigest.com mary

    So who REALLY makes us free? God or the United States Army?

    • http://?? Joe H.

      mary,
      Both, the Military with the guiding hand of God!

      • http://naver samurai

        True that! True that! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

  • AJ

    The question was asked, “What have we gained by attacking Iraq and Lybia?” Ask the Federal Reserve boy’s. Both leaders thretened their existance. If my memory serves me correctly a US president did also.
    JFK

  • JannyP

    I love the passion with which most have spoken. Thanks Coal Miner for
    providing the “press release” from the Board at Goshen. It does make me question “their belief that faith & country can co-exist without disturbing higher allegiances to God and Goshen will become increasingly diverse and will welcome diverse viewpoints.” Does anyone
    else see the agenda behind their very words?? Haven’t we made great strides to make America the most diverse country ever?? Why have we allowed certain religions to dictate how we think, act and live? I hate to think of what our future will become if we do not respect the freedom that our military has fought so long and hard for. If you don’t love AMERICA as most of us do, LEAVE NOW. America, please speak up, ask questions, educate the uneducated and close-minded. We have so little time and so much to lose. WALMART PERSON, you need to get that anger under control. Become part of the solution.

  • Bob

    Goshen College needs to move their facilities to another country that is less about war and more loving……..Preferably far away from Our Country.

    • Jay

      Yes, to Sweden or Copenhagen, or anywhere else in Europe for that matter!

  • Ridge Runner

    I think these people are just more ass kissing slime balls and that ain’t my way of religon.If a big bruser was to go into a room full of women and tell them he was going to rape all of them what would the women do fall down and say do me first.I think we need to slide them into the ocean and let them slide up on some deserted island like in the artic.If these people don’t want to stand up for their rights then they don’t need to exspect some one to do it for them.If they don’t have any gumption get up and go then they are or it sounds like what we already have too many of.

  • Kris B

    I think this is much ado about nothing. Playing the national anthem before sporting events is a classless tradition, it has combined nationalism and a huge mindless distraction from power government is exerting.

    The song is an ode to war. They are pacifists it makes sense they would not play it. This is what makes our country great. They are freedom lovers as much as anyone else and they are exercising their freedom. You don’t have to love it, but we should honor it.

    Honor them and their freedom to do it. Even if you believe all the wars we have fought are to protect our freedoms, this is certainly one of those freedom. Live and let live. The national anthem is fine and everything but playing it does not make you a better American than someone who doesn’t.

    In fact I would argue it is our duty not to blindly honor the state regardless of actions. We are fighting 3 or 4 wars (I see we are bombing in Yemen as of this week). I do not honor these wars. We have a regulatory state that is sending federal agents in raiding farms for selling their milk fresh and local. We have an IRS that imprisons people for not paying their homage. We a federal reserve that is in the process of stealing our life savings by printing money.

    Yet we can our undies in a bunch because some school doesn’t want to honor that? Give me a break, more of should stop honoring it and revolt.

    • Master Gunny

      With respects sir I disagree.

      Playing our National Anthem at a sporting event should remind us of the terrible human cost that our servicemen have made to preserve our freedom and give freedom to oppressed peopls the world over. Though the athlete wins laurels and honors for his skill on the athletic field the vast majority of our warriors have gone unrecognized even though their sufferings and sacrificies are often beyond imagining.

      Yes I agree that the lyrics of the Anthem are bellicose and are the subject of derision by foreigners and native Americans because of their tenor but those lyrics also may give a moments pause to a would be agressor. The best battles ever fought are the ones that aren’t fought at all. Knowing that we will fight and fight to win is by far one of the best deterents to war. Failing to keep the peace such lyrics stir the heart to persevere in the preparation for, and heat of battle. It always astounded me how the heart is strengthened and the will steeled by strong words, martial sentiments, or lyrical admonitions to be courageous.

    • joey

      Kris B i agree with you one hundred percent. I want to thank you for what you wrote, it’s exactly how I feel. It makes the people who worship the government so mad when someone decides to walk away from that religion, and start thinking on their own. They don’t understand that if they don’t stand up for this school’s freedom to not play this song, their might not be someone to stand up for their freedom’s or rights.

  • mickey

    I think the undermining of the US started with taking prayer out of schools, the ten commandments out of public site, and now the anthem. They are all integral to the US existence. For without the original time the anthem was written, we would not be much of a nation. Without prayer of some kind, we have the idea that there is no superior power to save us from everyday injustices. Without the public remindance of the ten commandments, we lose site of a moral road.

    I think from time to time it is appropriate to remember just why we have such freedoms and these rituals, so to speak, serve to keep us grounded and reminded we must be vigilant to keep these freedoms.

    No one is forced to say a pray, at the citing of the Lord’s Prayer, no one is forced to sing the anthem.

    Kris B questions why this is important. Because everything you listed is a result of not reinforcing these basic values.

    The school may do as it pleases but I for one would not attend any event. I also think that to receive federal funds–merely because they think the anthem is warmongering, is wrong. The anthem signifies our freedom and the cost it took to be free. Protest the continuation of unnecessary wars, as I do, but not our underlying debt to our nation–and to each other. Protest the loss of moral direction our leaders have taken us as each piece of remindance disappears from public view.

    Were I to be in another country while it played its anthem, I would stand in respect but not swear alligence. Were I to actually live in another country, I would adopt their culture. We have a culture in the US and those who wish to come as foreigners and to change that culture to reflect an old one–are welcome to leave.

    We are a nation of 300 nationalities–but one in alligence to the US. To allow our culture to be undermined only leaves open the gates for predators and there are many.

  • Master Gunny

    The solution rests not with changing the policy of Goshen College per se. Rather it is to be found with the other colleges that compete with it. If those schools will refuse to participate with Goshen then, for all intents and purposes Goshen will have no athletic program ergo no reason to “struggle” with a decision either way. In a sense I admire Goshen for pragmatic adherence to their fundemental values but I wish the object of their moral stand was more worthy.

    It is with pity that I view anyone whose soul is not touched by such sentiments as:

    Oh! thus be it ever, when freemen shall stand
    Between their loved home and the war’s desolation!
    Blest with victory and peace, may the heav’n rescued land
    Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation.
    Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
    And this be our motto: “In God is our trust.”

    More to be pitied is the fragile soul that assumes that freedom and liberty are not worth every imaginable sacrifice.

  • http://www,huronvalleyschools the ?

    We are patriots for a reason “give me libirty or give me death”.If you can’t except that how will live you live life like that.

  • joey

    I see nothing wrong with what they did. The reason why is, I believe for someone to respect my freedom’s and right’s I have to respect their right to not play that song or whatever else they want to do that is legal. BTW its only a song. In the long run is it really that big of a deal, it’s not life and death.

  • David

    OMG, if this type of thing continues we will be praying to a Muslim Statue praying in the spanish language. This country was founded on the pretense of religious freedom and no more excessive taxation. Well, to be religiously free we lose many of our fathers, sons, mothers and daughters to protect that freedom. And the Star Spangled Banner is not condoning war but praising our higher power for allowing us to remain free. Overly simplified but……….

    I have no problem with any religious group who wants to ban this or that from their schools, however they should then forfeit all tax money that comes from all hard working americans and find a way to support their own beliefs.

    I don’t know, I think the USA is falling apart fast and in a hurry. Heck it is no longer politically correct to say Merry Christmas.

    I’m getting to old for this non sense.

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