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Give Us Enough Rope

February 24, 2011 by  

Give Us Enough Rope

Believe it or not, the partisan style of American politics is a blessing. Granted, we all have moments when we yearn for a more civilized discourse; or at least, one that doesn’t involve Lawrence O’Donnell trying to convince viewers that he’s earnest. (I thought he had a weird facial tic.) But even a casual glance at the madness which has spread across the parts of the world which most Americans can’t find with a map and a copy of Fodor’s should serve to remind you that you’re pretty damned lucky you don’t live in Jihadistan; or one of the growing roster of countries which shoot people with an affinity for jasmine (the Chinese are going to have to stop pirating DVD’s of Disney’s Aladdin).

In the wake of lunatic Jared Loughner’s attempted assassination of Representative Gabrielle Giffords (D-Ariz.), President Barack Obama issued a call for “civility.” Americans heeded that call for about the same length of time it took the Democrats to formulate “Sarah Palin did it” talking points for the corporate media. By the time Obama delivered his annual “it’s STILL Bush’s fault” address, the interaction between Left and Right was back from somewhat muted rumblings to full-throated cacophony.

Now Americans are witnessing the Democrat Party/Big Labor Operation Sour Milk (author’s note: The DNC is free to use that one, with proper citation) in the Cheesehead State. Union thugs, perhaps emboldened by their recent victories in rumbles with the patients at Shady Acres Senior Stop, are roaring in unison with everyone from the actual Communist Party to House Minority leader Nancy Pelosi to Obama himself.

There are the usual — and becoming somewhat clichéd — depictions of Governor Scott Walker as… well, I’m guessing Hitler; but possibly Charlie Chaplin. Either some of these protestors received their artistic instruction from one of those late-night television “drawing schools,” or the Service Employees International Union has a huge number of fans of the Little Tramp.

Last weekend, I posted a link on Facebook to a report in The Washington Post about the Wisconsin Democrats’ cowardly — and enormously unproductive — bail jump to a bar in Illinois. The attendant discussion started in the usual manner: Fun and friendly digs at Democrats, followed by comical and calm-headed retorts to Republicans.

And then all hell broke loose. Again.

Around 50 remarks into to the thread, two of my friends were planning to meet up and — as one put it: “Beat the sh*t” out of each other. I actually know both of these cats, and they’re both pretty good guys, even though one of them is a hardcore liberal, and therefore has his head politically crammed into his posterior. Their war of words — and almost more — got me thinking:

“In ‘Jihadistan,’ we’d all be shot.”

Then, I mused upon the fact that I have quite a few friends who have it completely wrong about politics. Some of these pals are rather open-mouthed about their liberalism. Some of them are even funny — on purpose; which in no way diminishes their wrongheadedness.

I have never wished to shoot, stab, garrote, or throat-punch any of them; although I freely admit that I’ve considered the old backhand upside the head on occasion. But they’re all like brothers and sisters to me and I would happily lay the proverbial smackdown on anyone who tried to step into them. I’d like to think they’d do the same on my behalf. (That’s a presumption. Some questions are better left unanswered, and all that.)

Among these “traveler” pals of mine:

  • A lawyer. A criminal defense lawyer, at that. But he knows good scotch and good cigars. He does suck at golf, but you have to love him for getting out there. At least he’s not one of those pansies over on the tennis courts.
  • A dyed-in-the-wool liberal who ran for office as a Democrat. He often talks about soccer as if it’s interesting. It isn’t — but he is. He does root for Notre Dame with the same eternal (and recently unrewarded optimism) with which I cheer on the Irish. He’s also about the coolest cat I have ever met, other than my own father. If I ever met someone who didn’t like him I wouldn’t want to meet that person twice.
  • A newspaper editor. Here’s a guy who once managed to work his hatred of George W. Bush into an editorial about a local homicide. I think his writing is hackneyed and whiny. He thinks my writing is… well… he doesn’t think it’s good. Meanwhile, his views on “looking for the union label” are not too different from mine. He’s also an avid gun guy and would stand shoulder-to-shoulder with many of us if the “time” came. When the stuff hits the fan, I suspect shooting straight is going to be a much more valuable piece of talent than writing political tracts, on either side.
  • An old school 60s retread-type who thinks all conservatives are GOP-Bots programmed by Roger Ailes. This guy actually once told me the United Nations is a WORTHWHILE organization. The UN is about as worthwhile as the Department of Education. UN-apologist though he might be, he has successfully hit a major league curveball, driven an actual race car over 200 mph and partied with some legendary rockstars and lived to tell some amazing stories about it.
  • A gay couple. They’re not even AMERICANS. However, they’re worldly, erudite, and incredibly interesting. A visit to their dining room table means a BIG step up from mac ‘n’ cheese. I only see them once a year, but I look forward to it throughout the rest of the calendar’s pages.

Not one of these guys is stupid. Each of them is worthwhile, in their own way. I debate with them, make fun of them, mock them and occasionally fight with them. I do NOT draw pictures of them made up as Hitler, nor do I Photoshop crosshairs over their faces.

Look, people: I’m not asking for some new-agey nonsense. Go ahead and drop the rhetorical hammer on those whom you deem deserving of a nail or two. I know I will continue to do so until Mr. Livingston decides he could fill my column inches with old “Family Circus” reprints. But there’s no reason for us all to behave like SEIU thugs, teachers’ union layabouts, and Nancy Pelosi.

There’s a big difference between:

Obama is a babbling, Alinsky-ite boob who is to the Presidency what the quarter pounder is to a kobe steak burger at Morton’s. He is grossly incompetent, elitist and appears to be almost pathologically mendacious.”

And:

“Obama is a goose-stepping, modern-day Hitler.”

That’s a bad allegory, given how the goose-steppers in question would have taken a dim view of someone of Obama’s complexion in their ranks. Plus, Obama’s chicken-legged frame would look ludicrous in jodhpurs.

Fight on, my friends, my countrymen, my fellow Bob Livingstonians. But remember the sage advice attributed to Benjamin Franklin (who would doubtless be appalled by the goings-on of late):

“If we don’t hang together, we will surely hang separately.”

Ben Crystal

is a 1993 graduate of Davidson College and has burned the better part of the last two decades getting over the damage done by modern-day higher education. He now lives in Savannah, Ga., where he has hosted an award-winning radio talk show and been featured as a political analyst for television. Currently a principal at Saltymoss Productions—a media company specializing in concept television and campaign production, speechwriting and media strategy—Ben has written numerous articles on the subjects of municipal authoritarianism, the economic fallacy of sin taxes and analyses of congressional abuses of power.

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  • Jeremy Leochner

    I applaud Mr. Crystal for the excellent argument for reasonable debate and discussion throughout his article. However I feel several of his opening statments run contrary to what he later says in the article. In the second paragraph he mentions the shooting of Representative Giffords and the call for civility. He then in the same paragraph presents the violations of that call committed by those I believe he disagrees with politically in a manner that seems to suggest the violations of civil rhetoric were the fault of those people or that they were the majority of the violators. Simply it paints a subjective opinion of an issue in a manner that appears to pin blame on one side. Then in the third paragraph he describes the protests in Wisconsin describing them using terms like “Thug” and connecting them to both the democratic party and the communist party in a way that appears to be intended to discredit or criticise the groups based on association with each other. From then on I felt in whole hearted agreement with what Mr. Crystal said. I mean this post as a comment to Mr. Crystal that I feel his argument would be better served by not implying those you disagree with are the only ones to use heated rhetoric and by not connecting particular groups to each other based on their similar beliefs in a way meant to inspire opposition to those groups based solely on their name unless you can present proof of numerous Democratic leaders leading the protests and/or proof that Democrates are somehow responsible for the protests. Otherwise what he has said fails to meet the criteria for “Fun and Friendly digs” and “Commical and calm-headed retorts”.

    • Robin from Arcadia, IN

      Jeremy… Perhaps you are trying to hard to read between the lines.

      • Jeremy Leochner

        Perhaps

        • get right

          Jeremy, did you know that Limbaugh, Hannity and O’reilly are AFL-CIO union members??? The hyprocrisy is astounding isn’t it?

          • http://googlechrome.com Raymond Babcock

            if they are they could afford the dues

          • Jana

            get right,

            Prove it.

          • get right
          • Jana

            get right,

            First off, do you remember JeffH words? Not all unions are bad.

            Are you aware also, that for anyone to even act in Hollywood or wherever, they HAVE to be in a union? In fact, they used to HAVE to join the Communist Party.
            The way most of our ‘movie stars’ behave, it still might be so. Once Communism takes hold it hardly lets go.

            Therefore, it might be the same thing for radio and television artists too. One thing I do know for sure they supposedly went on strike in 2000 for 6 months. I do know for a fact Limbaugh did NOT go on strike.
            They also receive benefits such as insurance etc as well as protection against someone.
            I went to their site and checked it out and it doesn’t seem so bad to me. They don’t try to control what their members say like a lot of them do.

          • Jana

            get right,
            One more important fact, their union is NOT asking that the taxpayers pay for their retirement and insurance.

          • bob wire

            Yea BUT!!!!!! funny stuff! I don’t know if they are union members or not but it wouldn’t surprise me.

            Myself, as well as a few of my friends are more apolitical and we enjoy playing to the bias so many people harbor with fun sport. ~ There is no end to the hypocrisy and in general horse manure on both sides of the political frontier

            These labor union concessions being discussed in Wisconsin has much less to do about state budget issues and more to do with DNC campaign funding. It is the first step in a series of steps to strike a deadly blow to RNC opposition. It’s aim to chock out the DNC largest single contributor under the guise of budget restraints and fairness.

            Aiming high and be willing to fall short, it’s an ambitious plan and has Karl Rove finger prints all over it. ~~ It’s suppose to be a secret, so nobody can openly discuss it or take credit, Walker is the front man and spearheading the drive.

            To have the middle fighting among themselves, while top wage earners sit back and play the part of Silas Marner is quite a plan. If the middle wishes to fall for it, they deserve whatever rewards that befall them for being so self-consumed.

            The present system in place for campaign funding is already flawed, the final stages of this master plan will be only adding insult to injury and I question if we might ever see another “fair” election without a complete, from the ground up restructuring in campaign reform.

          • Jana

            bob wire,
            Thanks! Good advice for you too.

        • get right

          Todd Palin was also member of union. Gee the list seems to be growing.

    • Okee

      Jeremy needs to get more sleep.

      • wayne

        …and to become acquainted with the term “sarcastic humor”.

        • eddie47d

          Not a bad article Ben and Jeremy was correct in his review of the usual nonsense you throw in. A good chunk of people who gather anywhere have a little liquor around. To say the Democrats are somehow sinful because they all met in a bar is terribly low brow on your part. Also unrelated to you(at this time);The Right loves attacking unions even though they are still hard working men and women. I know everyone wants to bring out the exceptions.The few who someone knew who was caught loafing (as if they were in the majority). Unions were the backbone of America for a long time and and are you neighbors yet you still attack them. Is it jealousy or the fact they have benefits you are envy of and you want to take away what they have? The monetary gap between you and them is not that huge yet you all act as if it is. Unions members are also big supporters of the 2nd Amendment so they should be an ally of yours yet again you keep pissing them off. Give me some reasons why they should embrace your side when you are so unkind to them?

          • ValDM

            eddie,
            I’ve asked you the same question 2 days in a row, yet I have yet to receive and answer from you. Shouldn’t you be at work? We know you’re a union goon. Are you using your employer’s computer and time to visit this site? Go to work and EARN what you’re being paid.

          • Jovianus

            Val…you do realize folks work night hours don’t you?

          • Denniso

            Ben Crystal sounds reasonable and somewhat intellectual for much of his article…then he has to show the rednecks his badges of honor to keep his credibility w/ them. Public employees are called ‘union thugs’ by him; and one of his friends is an ‘avid gun guy’,who will stand shoulder to shoulder ‘when the time comes’; and when ‘the stuff hits the fan shooting straight will be more important’ than writing political tracts.
            So Mr. Crystal is apparently preparing for a shooting revolution rather than depending on civil discourse and debate to fix the ills of our country…not very intellectual of him.
            To call police,firefighters and teachers ‘union thugs’ because they want to hold on to their right to deal w/ their work issues and security, is patently absurd and childish…it does play well w/ most rednecks and anti intellectuals,and most on this site.

            I suspect that Crystal is a closet intellectual who has to pander to the rightwing zealots who are most of his audience.

          • voice of reason

            You need to wake up and realize the difference between private worker unions and government worker unions. These are government workers…. where all these benefits come out of the taxpayers pocket. A few statements from Ann Coulter…

            The need for a union comes down to this question: Do you have a boss who wants you to work harder for less money? In the private sector, the answer is yes. In the public sector, the answer is a big, fat NO.

            Government unions have nothing in common with private-sector unions because they don’t have hostile management on the other side of the bargaining table. To the contrary, the “bosses” of government employees are co-conspirators with them in bilking the taxpayers.

            Democrats buy the votes of government workers with generous pay packages and benefits – paid for by someone else – and then expect a kickback from the unions in the form of hefty campaign donations, rent-a-mobs and questionable union political activity when they run for re-election.

            It used to be widely understood that collective bargaining has no place in government employment. In 1937, the American president beloved by liberals, FDR, warned that collective bargaining “cannot be transplanted into the public service.” George Meany, head of the AFL-CIO for a quarter century, said unions were not appropriate for civil servants. As recently as 1978, the vast majority of states prohibited unionization of government employees.

            Time to wake up my friend.

          • eddie47d

            ValDM; Go back and look I did respond you snippy little weasel.I have never been a “union Goon” although I was in the union for 40 years and retired Sept 1,2009. That is the same month I joined the Livingston site and I can do with my free time as I please. Is that okay with you since you are such an authority on other peoples lives.Actually I still work everyday and don’t get paid a dime for it. I take care of my grandson(now 18 months)and have since that same Sept 2009. 7am-5pm..so if some of you wonder why I don’t answer everything or at least right away I have more important business to take care of.

          • marvin

            eddie47d
            i to was in the PRIVATE sector union, i all so worked as a none union goverment worker their is a big differance in private sector unions and public employs unions their is no place in goverment for an one to have life time job from judges on down to federal workers,if you work for me you do what i say or get fired,an do not try telling me if you had someone building a house for you and was not doing as told you would not fire them

          • barbm

            union leaders make almost as much money as those wall street execs that we from all parties have been complaining about, and they don’t lose their jobs or paychecks when they push people to go on strike. thank God i live in texas – a right-to-work state. once upon a time unions served a very serious and noble purpose. children and adults were being worked to death with 20-hour work days in dangerous conditions. now, they’re just thugs who force their members to work for and vote for their democrat choices. jealous of their benefits? no, but i do resent having to pay for them when i can’t afford those things for myself and my family. that’s not jealousy, it’s reality. do they work harder than me or deserve more pay and bennies for the same amount of work? no. the country is in trouble from the cities to the feds. it’s time for us to join together and do our fair share in bringing it back from the abyss. that won’t happen as long as unions have as much influence as they do.

          • JIBBS

            Whats up TROLL ?, have you ever been in a union ? I was for about 15 years, before I caught on to their “blood sucking” ways. There are a lot more lazy workers than you think. The best part is paying due’s. I was out of work in the winter for about 4-5 weeks,and they gave me a choice for my first check…I couild feed my family and make my house payment or pay up my due’s. If I elected to pay my due’s with my second check, there would be no second check, meaning pay them first ! Your a fool if you think they care about their members !!! I’m so glad we parted, and now I make just as much and have a better life. I think the unions pay you to come on this site, I also would venture to say you are under age 35.

          • JIBBS

            Ah, hence the eddie47, got it, hard to choke that down. Just as I thought….you a union head.

          • JeffH

            Well that didn’t last long. The board harpy and his liberal hatemonger pal wasted little time with their namecalling. Rednecks and weasals? Uncle Saul would be proud!

          • Jana

            JIBBS,

            You are so right. My uncle was in the union and it was his god. Right or wrong he lived and breathed union. He was some type of big Whig in his chapter. He was totally disgusting in his views and thoughts. He was the “shame” of our family. He was dishonest and to say the least so he fit right in.

          • http://none Jerry D

            The problem with liberals and the second amendment is that they believe that they have the right to say anything, but are real big on shutting down conservative talk. It’s not conservatives who are trying to get the FCC to limit conservative talk radio with the so-called “Fairness Doctrine.” If someone pays for his time on radio, he should have the right to say anything as long as it doesn’t violate the public morality.

          • denniso

            Voice of reason says there is no hostile person on the other side of the table from public workers…what would you call the new governor,Walker,in his opposition to the workers? Friendly partner?
            Public employees live through changing administrations,some friendly and some not. Walker wants to gut the collective power that teachers,police,etc have to maintain a secure jobplace and fair treatment for the workers.
            You complain that we have to pay for the wages and benefits of public employees…what,you want the work done for free? And don’t you know that you also pay for the private workers wages/benefits? Every single product or service you buy,gasoline,toilet paper,drugs,cars,homes,food,is provided by workers that you pay the wages for in the cost of that product.

            Wake up and think a little more clearly before you disparage your fellow Americans.

          • eddie47d

            Jeff;Not one word about ValDM slandering me but I’m not surprised and that makes you worse than a weasel. You loose credibility everytime.

          • JeffH

            eddie says, baaahhhh, baaahhhh, baaahhh! You don’t even know what credibility is much less what it takes to be creditable.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            eddie N denniso,
            you guys talk so angelic about your unions, but let me ask you a question. If it comes down to get rid of collective bargaining or lay off 40% of the workforce, what do you think the union will do?? you think they will say well we better let go of collective bargaining or there are a lot of workers that are gonna lose their house and cars?? Hell No!!! They don’t care about you or anything else except their stranglehold on the employers and in this case the employer is WE THE PEOPLE!!!

          • http://Verizon Bud G.

            Eddie: My dad had a high position in the union and he wanted me to join but after reading their by laws, I could not do so as I thought I would no longer have the freedom to make my own personal choices.

            I am 70 now and over the years I have seen the steel, textiles and the auto industry fail and I believe it was due to union greed. I am not against unions but I do think they have become a supporter of one party only, the Democrats and they use their influence and monies to support them. A person in a union should have the right to support whatever party they choose and not be forced to fund others.

            Elected officials are put there to do their job whatever party they belong to and if they were private citizens, they would be fired for what happened in Wisconsin. When you have outside influences interfering in a State problem, it makes the situation worse and is actually making matters worse for the unions because other states are watching this circus and they don’t like what they see. There may be concessions made but I think the unions have shot themselves in the foot with their overbearing presence. I see unions losing even more ground in the years to come and ultimately arbitration on all negotiatons as a means of maintaining a balance.

          • eddie47d

            Then the Koch Brothers would be banned from Wisconsin if outside influence is your concern. They are directly and indirectly involved with Gov. Walker. I think the Chamber of Commerce and the right is showing their true colors.

          • eddie47d

            You’re not only a weasel Jeff,you are a liar and a phony. That is 3 strikes and your out Mr Lack of Credibility!

          • http://googlechrome.com Raymond Babcock

            the democrats in wisconsin are like brats the republicans area small boy 4 years old the democrats are like a 3 year old girl they are fighting over a doll the boy wants to practice surgery starting with the brain the girl wants to buy it a new wardrobe the problem oh well i gotta go

          • Granny Mae

            eddie47d,

            18 month old huh? I will take my hat off to that cause you have your hands full but it is fun too. Guess what you get to spoil him and send him home ! That is the part that I like the most. Have fun in your new job !

        • Jeremy Leochner

          Believe me Wayne im no stranger to sarcastic humor. The problem is Mr. Crystals article makes it hard to tell if hes joking. It appears like he is perfectly serious. Moreover suggesting political opponents are the sole ones who make inflammatory statments even as a joke is not the best way to make an argument. Perhaps if he identified his statments as being sarcastic as a way of showing how silly it is to use name calling as a tool of political aguments then perhaps I could agree.

          • Bruce D.

            Most political satire is a double edge sword meant to also be an attack. Few are politically neutral for sure. You are right to take offense if you are a progressive/socialist.

          • Jeremy Leochner

            Actually im a Social Democrat with progressive leanings.

          • Jana

            Jeremy,
            Its the same thing.

          • Jeremy Leochner

            Well actually not all progressives believe in Social Democracy. Some are ardent capitilists, some democratic socialists and some are communist.

          • Bruce D.

            That is interesting Jeremy. Maybe I can learn something from you. How would characterized someone like Michael Moore who is an ardent capitalist but denounces capitalism in favor of socialism and even Cuba like communism. How does he figure into all this. There are others on the left similar to him and I can not understand the logic behind it.

          • Jeremy Leochner

            Well Bruce my best understanding is that Mr. Moore is a Democratic Socialist. That is he leans more towards replacing capitilism with socialism yet maintaing democracy as the means of making decisions. You could say he wants socialism but he still wants corporate or capitilist entities to have a say in things and to make changes if they require it. Of course it confuses matters that Mr. Moore cant help but love the benifits of capitilism. The best I think is Mr. Moore feels capitilism is good but that it allows people with wealth and power to take advantage of the less wealthy and less powerful. Personally I agree however I am more of the mind to reform rather than replace capitilism. I guess it comes down to what people think is a better strategy-deal with the issues of capitilism by aiding a little socialism to better balance it, or try and replace capitilism with a more system based socialism but still try and keep some capitilism to help make profit.

          • Bruce D.

            Thank you for your honesty. I respect that.

    • marvin

      Jeremy Leochner
      when was the last time you heard a conseritive tell union members some times you got to get a little bloody, when was the last time you saw repubican leave their home state and hide to keep from voting,when was the last time you ever heard a president sidy with one section of the public like hispanic or black or gays,or say cop are stuped or republican can ride in the back of buss,or i am a citizen of the world ,really hell i was under the inpression the american people elected him,was he not elected to represent all american citizen not just illegal/gays/unions/blacks hispanics,but i guess i live in the past when unions did bust heads,and presidents were suppost to be for america not tell the world how sorry we are

      • barbm

        the texas legislature did it. more than 50 Texas Democratic legislators fled temporarily to Oklahoma, New Mexico and even Mexico in 2003. In that case, Democratic legislators, colloquially called Killer D’s, sought to thwart Gov. Rick Perry’s redistricting plan by traveling on one occasion to Ardmore, Okla., and another time to Albuquerque, with a few of them straying elsewhere. Ultimately, the legislation passed to redraw congressional districts in Republicans’ favor.

        • barbm

          oops, didn’t finish. the dem in our tx leg did it and, just like the wi dems, the issue will still be sitting there waiting for them when they return. and the unions will be busted. made them look stupid just as the ones in wi do.

        • Jana

          barbm,

          The Democrats before that had used redistricting in their own favor. I remember our county was very mixed up on who represented us. I had one rep., and the next block over had someone else.
          Yep its the killer D’s, running D’s, or cowardly D’s. Even when the Republicans were getting hammered by the Democrats in Congress, we didn’t see them run and hide. That is just another way of the Democrats using manipulation.

          • Jane

            Oh! Jana, Jana, Jana The chicken s*** republicons did the exact same thing. They left the state so they didn’t have to be forced to vote for something they didn’t want. Pull your head out of your backside and get all the facts!

          • Jane

            Can you possibly remember a republicon schmuck named Tom Delay? From his prison cell he could tell you a lot about redistricting. Go back to your corportate masters and get a new set of facts.

          • Jana

            Jane Jane Jane,

            First off if you cannot talk without a potty mouth, I would rather you not respond to me at all.
            The Republicans did NOT run. I am not saying the Repubs. are perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but they do NOT have the reputation of running like cowards.
            I have heard of a lot of schmuck Republicans, I have also heard of a lot of schmuck Democrats.
            Maybe you and your Socialistic ideals ought to get your facts straight

          • Bruce D.

            Jane, Jana used specific examples. You talk about facts and getting your head straight but use generalized slander. Maybe it is your head that is not on straight, slanted way to the left.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Bruce D,
            Well said and amen!!!

          • Eric Bischoff

            You are right Jana. Republicans are heartless thieves and liars who only care about helping their already wealthy masters get more wealthy. And as usual it’s all done on the backs of the poor and the hard working middle class Americans. The giant sucking sound of wealth redistribution always from the bottom up. Fools!

          • Jana

            Eric,

            You are so right Eric. The Democrats are heartless thieves and liars who only care about helping their already wealthy masters get more wealthy. And as usual it’s all done on the backs of the poor and the hard working middle class Americans. The giant sucking sound of wealth redistribution always from the Democrats.

          • JC

            Always nice to hear the chatter from Eric the Red Communist.
            Reminds me of why I despise the communist left so much.
            You parasites are despicable and will have to be dealt with at some point….some things never change.

          • bob wire

            Eric the Red, too funny. ~ Didn’t he have a son named Leaf ? Or was it Leaf Erickson ? I’m fuzzy , it’s been a while.

            anyway, ~ Jana ~ I see you are back to being your out spoken self again. GOOD!

            You need this banter, it sharpens the wit. ~ Like the man said , try to be less “general” and really say something without being foolish.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            bob,
            I believe that is Leif Ericson!

        • http://googlechrome.com Raymond Babcock

          i have allways been told to the victors go the spoils now redistricing what is that really about iam a republican some its not right iam not sure why

          • Jana

            Raymond,
            Generally they do redistricting after the census figures comes out. If the Democrats are in power, then they do it to their best advantage and visa versa.

      • Jana

        Yaaaay Marvin,

        That’s telling them!

      • Jeremy Leochner

        I suppose Marvin. However how often have we heard Glenn Beck or Rush Limbaugh equate progressives or liberals to communists or Nazis. Or perhaps all those reporters who keep comparing the protests in Wisconsin to the ones or Egypt. Or finally former Tea Party leader Mark Williams who is actively calling on friends and supporters to pretend to be members of the Union Wisconsin protesters so as to make the protest appear more unruly or more extreme then it is. What im saying is extremism and extremist rhetoric is something everyone of every political persuasion is capable of and it is not the exclusive fault of those in on the left or the Democrats or the Unionists.

    • JIBBS

      I’m yawning,.. yawning,… yawning…………..snooring

      • Jana

        JIBBS,

        That’s a nice little ostrich.

      • Carlucci

        Jibbs – Correction – You were paying your dues, not your “due’s”.

        I would also like to applaud Eddie47d for taking care of his grandson. That’s fantastic, and so much better than putting a child in a cootie factory, I mean a daycare center.

        • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

          Carlucci:

          JIBBS did not do that. His keyboard did.

          • Carlucci

            Gotcha. Peace out.

    • Void1972

      The dawning of the Thirties saw the country sliding ever deeper into the Great Depression. Unemployment was soaring and would hit about 15 million by March of 1933. Employed workers were feeling less and less secure in their jobs, and the unemployed could expect little help from the federal government. This led to widespread unrest among the working class and provided fertile soil in which the seeds of radicalism could easily be planted. Many new recruits saw the Communist Party as a way to address particular concerns: a means of fighting fascism or racial, ethnic, and religious discrimination, of gaining labor-union objectives, general social improvement, or humanitarian socialist goals.Others saw a more transcendent purpose, embracing the vision of the Communist Manifesto in which Karl Marx eloquently stated, “The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of class struggles.”

      After 1933 the Communist Party (CP) made great strides by switching from activism in the unemployed sector to aggressive union building among those who did have jobs. There was a great upsurge in Communist participation and influence in labor unions – especially in the Pacific Northwest. This participation brought the Party new members and new credibility. In his book Labor and Communism: The Conflict That Shaped American Unions, historian Burt Cochran argues that the party gained influence and credibility by taking the lead in union-building struggles and doing the hard work of organizing and taking risks where others held back. Party members gained a reputation as fighters for the working class:
      Beyond winning relief for some of the needy and making the country conscious of the national problem, the marches and demonstrations, the moving of furniture back into apartments whose tenants had been dispossessed, the countless sit-downs in relief offices and other so-called job actions were important in carving the image of Communists as intrepid fighters for the underdog.
      This is our America.

    • John Woodbury

      Jeremy, there is a fine line here, notice it was liberal news and Democratic reps who even before them smoke and cleard were stating the shooter was a right wing gun nut. That only stopped when it was found that he was even more leftist than Obama. Why is it we hear more on how bad Wisconsin Governer Walker is than how bad Gadhaffe is from Chairman Obama, friends of O get a speical deal I guess. Yes Jeremy the ”Thug” is exactly what Union enforcers are, paid thugs at that.

      • http://googlechrome.com Raymond Babcock

        i want are troops tp come home to the united states of america make them all border patrol agents to stop drug traficers from bring illegal drugs make people come here to confirm with the law the drug addicts in america bank roll terroist if latinos could not come here my sister might not have a husband my daughter might not have a man to live with

    • http://googlechrome.com Raymond Babcock

      why have the wisconsin democrats left the state they lost whats wrong with that if a person in the private sector did not show up for work they would be fired this is what is wrong with our goverment no matter what these losers do the think they should still get paid go to my credit manager helen wait if you do not want work and want your check go to my manager helen wait

  • http://! Angel Wannabe

    Good article!_but lets face facts, there is alot going on in America and other parts of the world, that we’re watching, and a lot of folks are down right scared of. Ben I too have Liberal Friends & Gays. The Liberals I let alone because, at some point they’ll see the light and wonder, where they’ve been politically. The Gays know, what I think, and what they do is they’re business, But I don’t wanna discuss anything about they’re intimate relationship or problems there of. and I don’t like Heteros or Gays mauling each other in public. There’s a time and a place for that_ Get a room, go to the car, but get out of the public arena. That said, I too would come to there aid if they needed it.
    As far as heated rhetoric goes, there’s a lot of fire & passion out here, people ARE P*SSED OFF and have been for a long time! It only takes one derogatory comment, to fire it up!__
    Oh and how we remember, Obama, calling for more peaceful rhetoric after Gabby Giffords was shot. Then we heard, Obama tell John McCain, The Elections over John, We Won!”__And when the Democrat Majority told the Republicans, “To Go To The Back Of The Bus”!_and the real kicker, when Obama Care was passed by ONLY Democrats, I didn’t see one Republican leave the state in a tantrum, because they were’nt getting they’re way. Unlike the Dems in Wisconsin and Indiana and would assume, soon to be Ohio.
    This Union up rise, is reactionary to the November elections. The Progressives have they’re nose out of joint, because the people don’t want they’re politics. It’s all a deliberate NWO agenda!
    __and BTW, with reagrds to the Unions, doesn’t anyone want to know where Andy Stern is in all of this, or wonder how conveniently he RETIRED not even a year ago, before this uprise??_-This was all planned, and I doubt the rhetoric is going to get any better!

    • lkar

      Not to mention the damage and vandalism to the WI state capitol and surrounding areas. Who has to pay for that? Are the people sleeping in the rotunda going to add the free housing to their tax returns? Afterall, the liberals are accussing Repulicans of “cheating” the taxpayers by sleeping in their public offices. Then there is the question of who is paying for the runaways hotel? If it is the public, this is criminal. If this the protesters, isn’t that a political donation and borderline ethically challenged? It had better be from their own money. However, aren’t their staff still getting paid? To do what? Sit and wait.
      In relation to Ben’s points, the heated rhetoric is because the current minority does not want to listen or act on the majorities wishes. Angel has pointed out the obvious hypocrisy of the Democrats serving humble pie to the Republicans. Now when it is their turn, thye feel that they are above the public voted wishes. Eat the damm pie and worry about what the public wants and try and get the votes for the next election cycle! No they want to turn this into a fight. “Civility” is only useful to shut the conservative voice up. They are not beholden to the same rules. Now the conservatives are fed up with the BS and will fight back.

      • wandamurline

        If they are sleeping in the Rotunda, then they should be arrested for vagrancy. This whole thing is ridiculous. It is time for the teachers to go back to work or be fired. There are a lot of teachers around the country who do not have a job and would probably be willing to relocate to Wisconsin. The real question is “Are the people going to allow the government and their congress who the majority of the people voted for and put into office to run the state, or are they going to allow the unions to run the state? That is the whole question here, and I believe that the elected representation has been given that responsibility. If they are unhappy, there will be another election in four years and they can vote for someone else.

        • spitfire

          In the end, I think you know what will happen. They will allow the unions and its thugs, the drivers seat. As always, somethings never change.

          • Jovianus

            Thugs?

            Ya mean like the ones the good governor was going to use to endanger peaceful crowds and their young kids?

          • Jana

            I was listening this morning to a union organizer bragging that they have offices in almost every country. He stated “World workers unite”, and “that is the only way we can survive.”
            Most of these unions are run by the Russian communists ideogs, and we have our gullible citizens eager to join.

          • JeffH

            spitfire, the unions(SEIU,NEA,AFL/CIO) have invested hundreds of millions to sit in that seat…don’t they deserve a return on their investment?

          • Jana

            JeffH,

            It always helps when you own the boss. They (unions) own the boss, the politicians, and the workers who have united under them. Then they have brought in their union THUGS!. These are the ones who stir things up and are the “enforcers”.

          • JeffH

            Jana, that is the negative that the unions I mentioned bring to he table. Not all unions are a bad thing, especially when they perform the functions that unions were created for, “a fair days pay for a fair days work”. One these big unions got involved in politics…well, we are seeing the results around the nation.

          • Jana

            JeffH,
            I will have to take your word for it as I realize I don’t know all of the unions, but the ones I do know about are not good.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            JeffH,
            Look at Hoffa. When he was in charge of the union, he went to Alaska totry out his might on the unions there. they met his plane and told him to just turn around and go back to the lower 48 and not even bother them. They didn’t even want a thing to do with his type of dishonesty!!! When they first started, the teamsters were needed. Now all they are is a bunch of strong arm crooks!!

          • JeffH

            Joe H., look where the Teamsters are on the powerfull union list…a mere shadow of what they once were.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            JeffH,
            Still disagree, it’s still a union, small or big!!

      • cmartinggn

        What vandalism? There has not been any. There isn’t even any trash.

        And what’s criminal here is the WI governor’s now admitted attempt to simply transfer money from the state workers to his rich buddies. That kind of income redistribution has been going on since the seventies and the people have obviously had enough.

        And if you want to know the “majority’s wishes” or who they think is a “thug,” then you might want to look at polls conducted by someone other than newsmax.

        And after using my tax dollars to fight an illegal war and subsidize the lifestyles of the rich and greedy, I have little problem footing the bill for hotel rooms for the Dems. I guess obstructionism is only alright if the GOP engages in it. Funny, but you guys seem to have the same attitude towards “freedom” and “liberty” as well.

        • Aix Sponsa

          Please, let’s get back to the issues. 1) The state is bankrupt, 2) students are not getting a decent education and incompetent teachers are being paid enoromous salaries. 3) WI Democrats ran from their job.

          • Bob

            The Dems, DID NOT RUN FROM THEIR JOB! The Dems are simply doing what the freakin repukes, did to the Affordable Care ACT, when they filibuster it.

            Angel Wannabe, I’ll never see the light, and support repukes, for their unabashed worshipping of the rich, and their God reagan.

            I support working Americans, not silver spoon fed repukes.

          • Jovianus

            1. The state deficits are cuased by the good governor’s tax giveaways to Big Business and the reduction inrevenues caused by the draconian conservative health legislation he sponsored and pushed through. The budget deficit was manageable and the State Employees agreed to the wage and benefit reductions.

            2. Have you looked at the education stts of Wisconsin? And it’s not just teachers who are having rights restricted by this “bought and paid for by the Koch Bros.” legislation.

            3. The State Senators are doing their jobs. Ensuring legislation which is draconian and important in its impact is given the full opportunity for public debate and scrutiny. Had it gone through without the Senators doing thier job, the Koch bros would have gotten all the state owned utilities for pennies on the dollar, rights would have been stripped from the people, and the budget deficit would have ballooned even higher forcing the people to pay far more in the next year as the good governor paid back his owners.

          • Aix Sponsa

            Did I say that the REPUBLICAN were right in what they did?
            Wrong is wrong.
            Don’t go ad hominem on us.
            Watch those red herrings.

          • Jana

            Bob,
            YES, the Democrats DID RUN from their job. They have LEGAL ways to fight this, but when these LEGAL ways are done, act like a man, not a coward!

          • Jana

            jovi,

            I went to the site you gave me yesterday and saw that there was an update at the bottom. it read in part:

            “Update: I’ve been persuaded that the surplus-to-deficit picture is more complicated that I initially understood. The budget report is working with two time periods simultaneously: 2010-2011, and then 2011-13. The $130 million deficit now projected for 2011 isn’t the fault of the tax breaks passed during Walker’s special session, though his special session created about $120 million in deficit spending between 2011 and 2013 — and perhaps more than that, if his policies are extended.”

            What Gov. Walker is trying to do is create jobs. I also remember Obama telling us that EVERYONE would need to sacrifice. (Except him of course). At any rate, the teachers have conceded to pay more in their retirement and health insurance, which is only right at this time.
            I do not like collective bargaining. Its the same thing as collective grades in school. The student that does not deserve to be passed on to the next grade gets passed anyway, right along with the exceptional students. This is wrong.
            At this point they cannot fire an inept teacher due to collective bargaining, so they have a lot of baggage. This simply has to change.

          • Jovianus

            Jana:

            I’m not stating teachers should be exempt from being held to standards or not be subject to termination if they fail to do a proper job. What I am saying is that the good governor is lying through his teeth and as the phone call yesterday revealed, he’s stabbing everyone, including TPers etc..in the back as payoff to his owners.

            I’m also stating that all one has to do is see this board and the various comments made as to what is ‘acceptable” teachings….there has to be a set uniform state standard, and if someone like Vigilant had his way….they’d be indoctrinated into believing verything but the TPer way is communist etc. Which is far from the truth.

            Collective bargaining is one sure way of knowing there isn’t a special interest group ramming their propaganda down our throats. And what Walker is trying IS NOT related to the ‘crisis” he created.

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            BoB, filibustering and leaving your job are two entirely different things! The dems that left they’re jobs, are acting like a bunch of two year olds, who want a toy they can’t have!!!___
            nanny nanny foo foo!

          • Bruce D.

            Jovi what the governor is trying to do is keep businesses from fleeing to the south and southwest. If there is no business there are no jobs. What do you not understand about that? Your views are very shortsighted.

        • lkar

          Good. Make sure to send your credit card numbers to the hotel they are staying in.

        • newland65

          you are way off base,,,it’s not what party you are in, as both of them make sure all of there friend’s and family are in on the money grab..this didn’t just happen,it been around since the dark ages,and won’t change anytime soon.. wake up,,,

        • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Virginia

          YOU HAD BETTER WAKE UP! After working in education for thirty years I know how we got here! It’s all about power and greed! DO YOU FEEL PROUD THAT OUR CHILDREN CAN’T READ OR DO SIMPLE MATH, OR EVEN BE CIVIL TO THEIR PARENTS or THEIR PEERS? DO you really think the unions are for the children? OR YOU? All the unions care about are your dues! Do any of you know what kind of money your leaders in the union make? That they fill Obama’s coffers for his next election. DO YOU REALLY WANT THE DESTRUCTION OF THE UNITED STATES? THAT, IS WHERE WE ARE HEADED IF PEOPLE DON’T WAKE UP! ARE YOU AWARE, THAT YOUR NEW DRIVERS LICENSE BEING ISSUED IN MAY WILL HAVE A MICRO CHIP IN IT? GOVERNMENT WILL KNOW YOUR EVERY MOVE 24/7. STOP THIS NONSENSE OF BICKERING WITH EACH OTHER AND GET TO THE REAL ISSUES. AMERICA IS IN TROUBLE! ARE YOU COMING TO IT’S DEFENSE AGAINST THOSE WHO WISH TO DESTROY HER? Or are you going to be the whinners that did nothing and sob “poor, poor, me”. HOW DID I GET HERE? When are you going to get it? It’s NOT for the children! OR YOU! WANT TO FIND OUT THE REAL SCOOP ON THE UNION – WORK FOR THEM. I DID! IT’S AN EYE OPENER. When the union started they WERE for the people. TODAY they are not! I am only talking about unions representing education. WAKE UP AMERICA. IMPEACH OBAMA!

          • Aix Sponsa

            Virginia, my dad was head of the school system for 19 years, retired at 62 in 75, because the liberal system took over and he was caught in the middle and was “tired of fighting the battle”.= “Don’t disapline my kid, and I am not going to disapline him either”.

            That was only when the beatniks and hippies had kids and the great social experiment of the 60s was getting well underway. Now we have 3rd generation idiots, generations expanding geometrically, and the liberals screaming that we need more armed guards and metal detectors in schools, demanding that we pass everyone of them, graduate functional illiterates, many with children already……. Abandonment of moral structure for the sake of freedoms has created a nation soon to be 3rd world.

            I remember saying (1966) that the hippies of the 60s would someday be running this country, and now they are since 1992.

          • Robin from Arcadia, IN

            Virginia… Good post! I don’t know what Democrats base most of their arguments on, but I am glad I’m on the side of the right. Again I say, it isn’t right versus left, it’s right versus wrong! And there are some things that are just plain wrong. Elected officials fleeing their states to avoid doing their jobs is wrong. Closing schools to complain about benefits is wrong. I won’t go on; I think the picture is clear!

          • Jane

            WOW! Virgina, Rant much? Psyco talk! Been listening to the drugster a little too much me thinks. When the corporations go after your job rethink your rant.

          • S.C.Murf

            Good post Virginia thanks. My wife is a early childhood development teacher and she says how bad the school systems have gotten. She would have got out years ago if not for her love for these kids. She loves it , she says that their brains are like sponges, ready to soak up any and all knowledge they are given. At the same time she sees children that are not ready to move on to the next level, but if the parents don’t want to hold them back then they move on and it only gets worse for them and we end up with teens that cant read write or do simple math. Foreign countries do not have to invade us, just sit back and wait for us to implode
            Unions at one time had their merit, but like anything where humans are involved, have gotten evil, greedy and power hungry. Walker in Wisconsin is trying to save that state and keep everyone working, and all the unionist want to do is cry about having to do their part. And I wonder just how many protesters are Wisconsinites and how many are being bussed in. This I know about having spent about half of my working life as a union rank and file member.

            up the hill
            airborne

          • http://?? Joe H.

            S.C. Murf,
            The preschool here that my daughter went to at 4 years old told us that she was not ready to progress into the next phase of school as she was behind in her social skills. I asked them if that wasn’t at least in part started in Kindergarden. Well, to make a long story short, we ignored their advice and started her anyway. they warned that she would struggle all through school. she was never off the honor roll and about half the time was on the principles list! she is now at 20 about 2/3 of the way through her bachelors degree!! Gee, I wish we had kept her back!!!
            My oldest, was able to read, write, add, and subtract before she ever started school and she DID struggle at times because the teachers couldn’t keep her occupied and were at a loss as to what to do with her! I don’t always go by what the teachers say about any kid!!

          • Lewis Munn

            Virginia,

            I taught a couple years, in a community college. I was forced to join a union, to get work.

            I was kicked out, by collaboration between the Union and the college administration. Including falsification of my records, of which I had kept copies so I could prove it!

            My crime? I taught the kids too well, so some went on to higher education, and some were able to get good jobs after a year.

            I was forced by both Administration and Union people to revise the courses so that kids would NOT get enough education to get a job without taking two years…dumb down the courses. Spread what was the first year over two years, carefully, so no kid could get work with just the first year!

            I was angry; this did not to me represent Education! But this was considered “Education” and “Right” by both union and administration.

            Furthermore, they altered my records to say I was a poor teacher, but they forgot I had copies of the unaltered documents.

            I had a better job off, so did not fight them, but worked with the other instructor in the department to gut and dumb down the teaching so no student could get enough information to get a job without attending and paying for 2 full years!

            This was unionism a fairly long time ago, and I have not observed any change in attitudes on the part of the public schools or the Unions that infest them!

            In that part of the Midwest, at least, the teacher’s Unions existed mainly to cooperate with the administration to fleece the students of as much money as possible to divide amongst themselves.

            Considering my experience, I think the legislators who ran away are showing cowardice under the unions, that they are controlled by the unions and not the citizens, and a complete lack of consideration for the proper education of the students. And I have little time for cowards who willingly damage the education of our country’s children.

          • Jana

            Lewis Munn,
            I read about your experiences. I believe you went through a lot of heartache and how sad for your would have been students. They were denied a decent education.
            Thank you for trying.

        • JIBBS

          Are you saying that the dems are not greedy and their poor ?, wow, take off the blinders and stop drinking the kool-aid. They are all greedy, but some just take less !

        • http://?? Joe H.

          cmartinggn,
          I haven’t heard anything about the governor admitting that want to post a source for it??

      • eddie47d

        Spin it one more time Ikar. You did it to Obama right out of the starting gate, to quote you: “the current minority does not want to listen or act on the majority wishes”. Sound familiar? Were the Conservatives beholden to the same rules only one or two years ago? A resounding heck no! Who was chasing the next vote right after the last election? The Tea Party people (that’s okay)but at least take that beam out of your eye. It’s really blocking you’re vison.

        • lkar

          I see elections mean nothing to you.

          • eddie47d

            …or to you.

          • JIBBS

            eddie, how’s that change working for you ? You have every right to leagally support the rest of the country if you wish, welfare, food stamps, illegals,ect. Just don’t use my money, use YOUR money! I’ll use my money how I see fit, I need no help spending it.

          • eddie47d

            Jibbs;What does that have to do with a decent wage for the American worker whether union or non-union?

        • Brad

          eddie,

          Ikar has it right, didn’t the rats have full control of the house and senate, didn’t the majority of the American people tell congress they didn’t want obamacare, didn’t they (RATS) shove obamacare down our throats. Quit being a hypocrite eddie, 90% of rat proposed bills end costing more in the long run, it’s been proven time and time again. Just take alook at medicade and medicare upon initial implimintation back in the 60′s 10-12 billion dollars over ten years, the actual costs came in at 120 billion in the same ten year time period. Today we are spending close to 400 to 500 billion on medicade and medicare, where does the spending end eddie, does it end when we can’t afford to buy a loaf of bread at the grocery store. Answer me that.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Brad,
            The best one Noblama did lately was today on the news it was reported that he and the justice department will no longer legally defend the Defense of Marriage Act!! no rulling from the supremes, no court case, just I’m not gonna enforce or defend it!! That is a function of the judicial branch, not the executive branch!!

        • Lewis Munn

          Eddie,

          Seems to me that that mote in your own eye is bigger than any beam in anybody elses.

      • http://! Angel Wannabe

        ikar, let the repubs sleep in they’re offices, h*ll, thats better than running up a tab at a resort, like the “Toddler Democrats” in Wisconcin are doing -bunch of frickin weenies!.

      • http://googlechrome.com Raymond Babcock

        talking to liberals is like trying to ride a dead horse you get no were and it stinks

    • randyg

      Angel has got it right. When the Dems clobbered the conservatives in 2008 they deemed they had a mandate and could shove things down our throats by hook or by crook. The Republicans were not only at the back of the bus but pretty much ignored altogether. Now, after the mid-term elections have at least equalized things a bit, The Dems just can’t handle it. There answer is to act like little kids on a playground who whine and cry when they can’t get there way or pick up their marbles and go home. When they won, they acted like the bullies they are and now that they’ve lost, they’re simply ignoring the will of the voters and continuing to be the bullies and hipocrates they are. Quite frankly, as they’ve shown over and over again, civility is lost on them.

      • WayneT

        Good post, randyg. Those Democratic coward don’t have the guts to stand up like a man, and vote. I certainly wouldn’t want to serve with any of them in a combat zone. Don’t they have a vote of yea, or nay? I hope they all lose their seats when their term is up. I am not speaking of being a Republican, or a Democrat. Even if the Republicans would do anything this stupid, I would feel the same way. I think what the Democrats are doing is Unamerican.

        • Jovianus

          Wow…so you see senators using tactics designed to force public hearings and testimony on important legislation which strips rights and gives away state assets as “not doing their job” ?

          Wow…. strange concept of being “American” if you support avoidig public testimony and hearings …

          • voice of reason

            yeah rights to government workers who shouldn’t be unionized in the first place? okay.

            I guess I have to keep posting this all over.

            “It used to be widely understood that collective bargaining has no place in government employment. In 1937, the American president beloved by liberals, FDR, warned that collective bargaining “cannot be transplanted into the public service.” George Meany, head of the AFL-CIO for a quarter century, said unions were not appropriate for civil servants. As recently as 1978, the vast majority of states prohibited unionization of government employees.” Ann Coulter

            Like her or not, facts are facts. Public servants should not be unionized and able to abuse the tax payers at their expense to begin with. WE are the ones that pay for their pensions, high salaries and full health coverage. And for all that they aren’t even good at their job. A good portion of the teachers protesting can’t even write proper english protest signs. Pathetic.

          • Jovianus

            It used to be widely understood that slavery was needed to keep the economy running. It used to be widely understood WWI was the war to end all wars. It used to be widely understood Joe MacCarthy was a good guy. It used to be widely understood ….

            Jeesh.

          • Robin from Arcadia, IN

            Jo… If they aren’t there how can anything be accomplished?

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Jovianus,
            They are elected and PAID to attend to their duties, not run to the nearest out of state hotel and pout!!! Their pay should be cut by as many days as they are gone, and if it goes too long, they should be recalled as in never to be able to run again!!!

          • Jana

            Joe H.,
            That is a very excellent suggestion.

        • Stewart

          These democrat legislators walked out on their jobs. They have a binding contractual obligation to perform just like any other employee. They have obviously relinquished interest and are therefore liable. They have no legal recourse. They should be fired immediately.

          If it were to go to court, the only ploy available to them would be to traverse. In which case all they would have to do is make a motion to strike. There is no way the state could loose it case against these characters.

          There is no doubt they will try to turn this whole thing into a circus act. After all isn’t that what we’re seeing right now.
          It’s about time this insanity was put to rest.

          • Jane

            Where was your voice when the chicken s*** republicans did the same thing? So you only remember what you want to and facts be dammed.

          • Jana

            Jane,

            The way you respond, it appears you have an anger management problem besides bad breath. (Potty brain, potty mouth, potty breath.

        • bob wire

          “Like her or not, facts are facts. Public servants should not be unionized and able to abuse the tax payers at their expense to begin with. ”

          Well I would think that there are thousands of police offices and members of CLEAT that would take some exception to your views.

          It’s a very easy thing and very political expedient to simple dismiss an officer if it wasn’t for CLEAT. Policemen are constantly under attack by disgruntled with trumped up allegations and often times very embarrassing for administration.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            bob wire,
            Then if they go on strike and a person dies because of their deriliction of duty, the dead person’s family should be able to sue the union and the participants!! They took a job and swore to protect and serve!! What’s next? The service unionizing??? I can hear it now. Give us more pay or we won’t fight off those invaders!!!

      • http://googlechrome.com Raymond Babcock

        they should just be fired

    • Bus

      I don’t know that it matters whether the rhetoric is calmed down or not, better we should be yelling at each other than getting out the guns. One purpose of free speech is to allow people to blow off a little steam. At least in this faceless forum we can truly see how people feel. I just wish they would stick to the issues.

    • http://googlechrome.com Raymond Babcock

      the back of the bus is were the high school students set i can hear them in the front just fine how old is john mcain its to late for change

  • Warrior

    Anyone seen Keith Olberman?

    • BobS

      Al “I invented the internet”, “This past winter was caused by global warming”, “I really did deserve this nobel peace prize” Gore hired him on his network. I think he is there taking coffee orders.

      • http://! Angel Wannabe

        bobs, lol!

      • CJ

        I think Al’s too busy trying to take over Apple, with Steve Jobs looking not-so-well. Al’s already the highest compensated board member.

      • wandamurline

        He needs to buried up to his neck in the Arizona desert.

        • SSweeney

          Pls do not further besmirch our desett…send him to hang out with the white house of unamerican activities gangbangers. :-)

        • Average Joe

          wandamurline,
          I’lk kick in two jars of molasses and a sack of hungry ants!

          • kilrntex

            I’ll throw in Al’s intelligence(a box of rocks)!

          • http://?? Joe H.

            I’ll throw in some reflective mirrors so he can find out what REAL warming is!!!

      • JIBBS

        Al Gore, what a lieing piece of humane garbage. He’s the father of the internet, scientist on global warming, lmfao He’s just another fool on the loose.

    • http://! Angel Wannabe

      Nah, Did anyone hire him?

      • BobS

        Seriously, Al hired him on his network. I don’t watch it so I don’t know what he does there.

        • http://! Angel Wannabe

          bobs, I don’t watch it either, so thats new, news to me!

          • WayneT

            I would never watch it either, but now it’s been said I do remember vaguely that Al Gore hired thid Liberal. I wonder why he left MSNBC? I thought that was a good place for him.

    • Deep River Rat

      Olberman is over on the Al Gore-head network. {Current TV}

      • Aix Sponsa

        Grandpa always said, “Nobody is totally worthless. They can always serve as a bad example”.

        • Carlucci

          Good one – !!

        • Jana

          Aix Sponsa,

          Love it!!

    • WayneT

      I never look for him, Warrior. I wouldn’t watch this Libral. I am glad to hear that he either left, or was fired from MSNBC. I believe he worked for this Liberal station. I did hear something about him a week or so ago, but I don’t remember what it was.

  • David in MA

    Side question;
    Who is paying for these DEMONcRAT run-away’s to
    stay out of state, the taxpayer on a
    state charge card?

    • Laurie, Haslet, TX

      More than likely the state charge card. Which the STATE can and should refuse to pay as it was not an officially sanctioned vacation er trip_- so then the DEMS will go and get money from the unions to pay for the vacations they took..

      • http://?? Joe H.

        Laurie,
        I heard on the news yesterday that there was a rumor that some of the unions were picking up the tab!! wouldn’t suprise me if it were true!!!

    • Mick

      David in MA says:
      February 24, 2011 at 7:17 am
      Side question;
      Who is paying for these DEMONcRAT run-away’s to
      stay out of state, the taxpayer on a
      state charge card?

      *********************
      David,, Of course the tax payers are footing the bill or at least have been…
      I heard that the governor was holding their pay check and required that those pay check be picked up in person, now all he has to do is put a stop on the use of credit cards…..

      • Aix Sponsa

        Sooner or later those millionaires will show up for work and get their checks. Witholding a few thousand from a millionaire is……. illogical and ineffective.

        • Jovianus

          Aix…good point. Wonder why the GOP and TPers continue to insist that not giving special tax breaks to the wealthy would cause hardship to those millionaires?

    • WayneT

      A very good question, David. I’ll bet the taxpayers are.

  • voted against carter

    Ben,…Ben,….Ben,

    Were to begin?…

    You are correct to a VERY SMAll degree, here is what your Examples should have read as;

    “Obama is a babbling, Alinsky-ite boob who is to the Presidency what the quarter pounder is to a kobe steak burger at Morton’s. He is grossly incompetent, elitist and appears to be almost pathologically mendacious (AND IS) is a goose-stepping, modern-day Hitler.” (the ONLY difference is Obama has not started shoving people in to ovens YET. But it’s STILL early SO,…)

    And You MIGHT want to see someone about your made up friends. They have medication for that now.

    CAN WE SAY RINO?? I think YOU can BEN.

    Just say’n.

    • Vigilant

      Your posting proves Ben’s points. You apparently subscribe to a marketplace of words in which anything goes.

      A little reading comprehension on you part would have revealed the nature of his article. His thrust is about the coarsening of discourse in public forums, NOT taking the Dems or Repubs to task for their political views. He asserts that words have meaning, and that the gratuitous spreading of hyperbole, like manure, makes for an unhealthy and uncivil ambience.

      Your implication that anyone who curbs the temptation to devalue their argument with inflammatory and disingenuous exaggerations is a RINO is absolutely untrue. And your unwarranted armchair psychiatry of Mr. Crytal’s “made up friends” is as baseless as it comes.

      Odd you should wear the badge of “voted against carter.” It’s no honor to have an IQ higher than 75. Just say’n.

      • Jovianus

        Vigilant…I see you’ve taken the article to heart. you haven’t called anyone who dares to cite fact and truth a commie or socialist yet today….

        • Cawmun Cents

          Thats because you cant handle the truth.

        • JeffH

          Jovianus, that is because, he, I and others already know who you guys are.

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            Here, Here Jeffy! :)

        • Jovianus

          Jeff…good. Then you know we’re the good guys who inform you of facts and proper analysis!

          • Robin from Arcadia, IN

            Jo… Wow! That’s a stretch at best! You jump in to keep things going and amuse us, but that as good as it gets!

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            jo, Oh Brother, another Liberal Know-it-all! BOO :(

          • JeffH

            Jovianus…NOT!

          • S.C.Murf

            JovBOB, time to make that popping sound

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Jovianus,
            As said above, that is a streatch at best and at worst an out and out lie!!! sorry dude, I call em’ as I see em’!!!

          • Vigilant

            Jovi Anus,

            Some talk from a person who never cites their sources.

        • Vigilant

          The latest from sage, seer and soothsayer Jovi’s Anus: “Vigilant…I see you’ve taken the article to heart. you haven’t called anyone who dares to cite fact and truth a commie or socialist yet today….”

          I have NEVER hurled that insult at anyone who cites truth and fact. When I find a poor programmed idiot like you who accidentally stumbles upon a fact once in a blue moon, I will withhold my epithets.

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            Vigilant, LMAO! ;)

          • http://?? Joe H.

            BADDA BING!!!!

      • Cawmun Cents

        Gald you got to this guy first….I wasnt going to be that pleasant.

  • s c

    Wisconsin’s attorney general shouldn’t have to be told that NO teacher (especially a public sector union ^&*#$ ‘teacher’] can get away with having priorities that interfere with his or her classroom obligations. EVERY teacher who pretends to be sick and is involved in protesting ANYTHING is a candidate for immediate termination.
    If the kids don’t come first [in Wisconsin, that's OBVIOUS], then a teacher should go straight to the unemployment line. Ditto for anyone who dares to hand out ‘medical excuses.’
    What is it about Wisconsin? They claim to “CARE,” and yet MDs, fakirs and teachers are so incompetent that they willingly confuse not being at WORK with working. DO YOUR JOB OR L O S E THAT JOB! Who the hell do you THINK you are?

    • Robin from Arcadia, IN

      SC… It will be interesting to see if they are forced to make up those days. Here in Indiana if we miss a day of school for weather reasons, it has to be made up. This sometimes means going past the designated last day of the school year.

      • Aix Sponsa

        The schools will make up the lost days. Politicians…. it’s just part of the perks to get paid for not working.

      • WayneT

        Robin, I think by law they have to put in so many days a year. At least this is the case in most states.

      • eddie47d

        SC is acting like a little Khaddfy.She talks about our freedoms then tries her best to stifle any desent that doesn’t fit her agenda. Walker is taking tough actions to solve a budget crises but is blaming the wrong crowd. He lost his credibility and we know his real motives. (busting unions and favoring his cronies). I’ll side with those who were lied about and you can keep siding with the liars.

        • Vigilant

          Busting unions is a noble pursuit. They are the bane of a free society.

          • eddie47d

            With that logic I reckon we can say it’s okay to rob wealthy corporates homes since they originally robbed from the public! I bet unions/workers earned their money to a far greater extent than the corporate thieves that keep popping up. Either you REALLY want fairness or fair play in America or you REALLY don’t.

          • Cawmun Cents

            My home isnt vastly wealthy…but I triple dog dare you to come and rob me….

          • Vigilant

            “Workers of the world, unite!”

            You probably don’t even know who said that.

            Denying the secret ballot in the workplace, using workers’ dues to support candidates they don’t support, etc. That’s fair?

            You don’t want “fairness” at all.

          • Cawmun Cents

            You are absolutely right Vigilant…I dont want “fairness”.Since when is the reality of this world based in “fairness”? “Fairness”is a term that is used in the educational system as a euphemism for “everyone is equally awarded”.You can be the best or you can be worthless,but “fairness” dictates that you all get the same benefits no matter your usefullness.Yes we dont want “fairness”.But that is because we have matured enough to grow out of the “school daze” mentality that grips the nation as a result of the Ivy Leauge “academics” false assertions of “fairness”.Thanks…but no thanks to “fairness”.

          • S.C.Murf

            Hey fast eddie, you ever been a union man? Bet not. I remember at one union job there was this one fellow that would not work more than an hour for 8 hours pay and there wasn’t a dam thing the Company could do about him cause he was a union man, so to get the work done and the doors kept open everyone else had to do more. You people got to wake up and see how this is all a part of how we are loosing our jobs in America. It’s not just Corporate greed, they have to make a profit but when it starts to affect their bottom line then they have to make tough choices

          • Vigilant

            Cawmun Cents:

            You are absolutely correct. Conservatives, based on the rule of law and cognizant of the charge the Founders gave to us, understand that “equal opportuniy” to succeed or fail is what made this country great. “Equality of outcomes” regardless of ability and talent is the discriminatory and enslaving socialism of the liberals.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            C.F. Murf,
            The teamsters raided our shop in 1982 and they got elected to represent us. They immediatly started to bargain with the company for a $1.50 an hour raise for all. Wouldn’t give a cent! When the old man wouldn’t give in, they told us to slow down to no more than 98% of production. At that time there were guys that were running as high as 145%. Well, when the old man still held out, they threatened a strike and the old man told them to go ahead and he would just write it off his taxes as a loss. They laughed at him but I knew him well enough to know he meant it! We went on strike and when it went into it’s third month and the old man wouldn’t budge, the union walked away from us!!! They just flat walked away and abandoned us!! Well, we went back to work and the whole second shift got laid off as the old man couldn’t afford to keep us on!! The union sure helped us now didn’t they??? A$$HOLES ALL!!!

          • JC

            eddie47d says:
            February 24, 2011 at 10:21 am
            With that logic I reckon we can say it’s okay to rob wealthy corporates homes

            And I guess if you want to advocate “home invasions” you can expect to be shot in the face like the Bolshevik Commie you truly are.

        • Cawmun Cents

          You mean like the unions in Wisconsin?Hmmmm….

        • JIBBS

          Unions had a use at one time, their time is over. They are now simply money making operations and that’s it,(blood suckers)

          • Jana

            JIBBS,

            Just like anything good and decent, then corruption comes in and ruins it.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Jana,
            trumka said in an interview that business has gone worldwide and so the unions are going world wide as well. They already have branches in Austrailia, Brittian, Germany and France. They are drunk on power!!! They are too invested in the workers of the world unite Bull$hit!!!

          • JeffH

            Joe H., with the “Big Union” guys like Trumpka, Stern and their ilk, it’s no longer about the worker or the conditions, it’s beome a political power and money grab. These guys are socialists…straight up socialists.

          • Jana

            They are actually more like communists in my opinion.

  • horner9324

    I think all states should pass a law immediately that says if a law maker intentionally leaves to block a piece of legislation then the laws can be passed without their votes.

    • Jovianus

      I think they should pass a law that all donations made by Americans for Progress should have the recipient be tatto’d on their forehead with “Bought and paid for by the Koch Brothers”

      Y’all scream about ACORN…with the phone call tapes yesterday on the good governor, let’s hear the same about Americans for progress (“coincidentally” also a major contributor to the national TP).

      How’s it feel to find out you’ve been betrayed and used ?

      • lkar

        So it is OK to be forced to pay union dues just to work in a government position. Then have those same dues overwhelmingly support the Democrats. Yea, that does not sound like big money influencing candidates! Selective BS is still BS.

        • s c

          Ikar, ANYONE who thinks it’s “OK” to FORCE someone to join a so-called labor union is someone who is a stinking, anti-American, insane, perverted, useful idiot SON OF A #$^&! Isn’t it more than curious how those self-centered retards define CHOICE?
          Isn’t it curious how SOME people think they can dictate how others can live, when their actions PROVE that they are no better than Hitler and his Nazis? It’s fairly obvious that a big chunk of America is utterly certifiable, and should be in long-term therapy.
          Common sense is in danger of becoming extinct. More and more, it seems that it will take another civil war to rid America of those who will do anything to destroy America (that includes politicians, of course). The Founding Fathers knew what the cure was. It has taken far too long for enough Americans to conclude there is any other remedy. Sobeit.

          • eddie47d

            Few are “forced” to join a union and only if there is a majority vote to do so. So SC keep your thug Hitler rants to yourself for you are worse than a bully.

          • Brad

            Eddie,

            I worked on a government contract through Dyncorp years ago, the union wanted their hooks in Dyncorps employee’s. The first two votes went against the union finally on the third try the year I left Dyncorp, of 800 eligable employee’s to vote 345 showed up, the nay’s were 150 the ya’s were 195 and the union was brought in. Of the 450 employee’s who didn’t vote they were forced to pay union dues evan if some wanted the union and others didn’t. In my opinion the vote should have been voided because not all employee’s participated in the vote. Long story short the company use to help the employee pay for medical, insurance and so and so forth to include a 401K match, now the employee has to pay for everything out of their own pocket with no 401K match.

          • eddie47d

            Like any election with a majority vote everyone get’s whatever the majority agenda is. It also shows the consequences of not voting. Participate or you may not get what you want. Dyncorp is no different than other companies today (union or non-union). They are dropping benefits like a hot potato. It’s not a very rosy outlook for workers or the companies themselves.

          • Matt Newell

            Why should anyone HAVE TO (be forced) to join a union? I thought this was a free country in which every person had a right to do what he wanted to do as long as it didn’t harm others. Just because 51% of a group want a union should NOT be a reason force the people who DO NOT want the union to have to join. That is what is wrong with the union idea. Union people will say that the people who do not join are hanging on the tails of the union as far as wages and benefits go. This is true, but they still should have the right to not join if they want to. I see that the REAL reason they want these non-union people is to get dues from them to use in ways the non-union people don’t like or desire.

            Unions are designed to allow the LOWEST producer to exist. They do this by setting productivity limits which anybody can do and then limit the ability of better people to produce MORE. There is NO such thing as merit in a union shop. In fact a union shop is the SLOWEST and MOST UNPRODUCTIVE thing in existence.

          • Brad

            Eddie,

            The one thing I forgot to mention about Dyncorp, the employee is the product. The employee works on advanced military aircraft such as the F/A-18 A-D to include the E&F and the EA-6B Prowler to include the new E/A-18G Growler. That’s at one hangar theres other types of aircraft maintained by Dyncorp employee’s.

          • lkar

            So eddie says:
            “Like any election with a majority vote everyone get’s whatever the majority agenda is. It also shows the consequences of not voting. Participate or you may not get what you want.”

            Seems like that is what is happening in WI and the Democrats are note accepting the consequences. It seems that all you and Jo want to rant about is how the rich are bilking you. I am upset that they get paid a lot more than I will ever see in a lifetime. But the issue is these are elected officials. If you do not like them, vote them out.

          • Cawmun Cents

            As the wise man once said,”If you listen to fools,the mob rules.”The lefts mantra…..go figure.

          • JIBBS

            eddie, you sure likes name calling.

          • Brad

            eddie47d,

            “Like any election with a majority vote everyone get’s whatever the majority agenda is”. These are your words eddie, so your telling me and everyone else it is O.K. for the unions to go against the majority. It seems to me the majority of Wisconsins want their budget to quit hemerraging and Governor Scott Walker is doing what the people want.

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            eddie47d,__ Ok Folks, Play Nice, eddie, the Playground Queen has spoken!!!!!_-Oh Harriet!__

          • eddie47d

            Brad; Not through lies like Gov. Walker has stated about unions.

          • eddie47d

            Jibbs; explain your last comment and where is it?

          • Brad

            Eddie,

            And your so called union bosses and democrat politicians haven’t lied, give me a break.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            eddie,
            does “thug hitler rants” ring a bell??? Throwing them out so fast you can’t remember them???

          • eddie47d

            Well Joe you are a thug with your ridiculous rants. Say something useful.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Hey JeffH,
            Was one of Alinskys rules “if they bring up a true fact, IGNORE”??? eddie’s doing a very good job, if it is!!!

      • ValDM

        There’s something I would like a progressive to explain to me. Where do you think we all ought to progress to???? You’re always shrieking about “we need to make progress”. Where are we going??? Where would your particular brand of progress take us?? I hope you know that most of us have a clear picture of finances, morality and where we belong in this world. I would hazard a guess that most of us live within our means, don’t lie, steal, cheat or expect anyone else to carry our load. What does a progressive want out of this progressiveness??? Does progressiveness require ALL of us to support bloated gov’t???? To support YOU??? To support others who wouldn’t walk across the street to help themselves???? I would really like an answer.

        • mark

          Every American Citizen deserves Economic and Social rights, which basically means that every American Citizen deserves adeqaute food, shelter, medical care, access to a good education and employment (when the capitalistic. Thirty percent of American Citizens live in poverty conditions which is completely immoral. A child born in the Ghetto and deserves the same opportunity as a child born in the Suburbs. Also, the USA should stay out of foreign wars and stay neutral. I basically consider myself a Liberal (except, illegal immigrants should be expelled and we need an unpregable border), so that is what I would say is basically the ideas of Liberals and or Progressives. To me the big difference between Progressives and Conservatives is that Conservatives have no compassion for their fellow human being and are very selfesh.

          • Cawmun Cents

            So… let me get this straight.You want to force me to buy health insurance…because you think its a right?Since when is a right required by law?I think you need to see who gives more of their hard earned paycheck to charity.Who does more with less.Who Spends more money aggragately to be elected.Who takes more campaign contributions from foreign interests.If you find that progressives lead in the take column,and fall short in the give column,then maybe you will notice that being a conservative isnt so bad.The only difference being who does what with who’s money.

          • JIBBS

            If you can’t support yourself, don’t have kids and expect to support you and them. If you choose to not work, quit school, have kids you can’t support, and the list goe’s on it’s your own fault. It’s like asking the banker for money, if you put nothing in, you can’t take any out. If you wish to support the above, use YOUR money !!

        • eddie47d

          Sure you have a clear view on money. That is why the Stock Market crashed 2 years ago. As long as you were making tremendous profits off of Wall Street scams everything was Honky Dory. You didn’t pass the I give a damn test back then so why should we believe you now? Everything seems to have been swept under the rug and they are going back to their old tricks. Progressives see the real abuses out there in CEO salaries and undeserved bonuses so take your blinders off.How about those tight wad banks loaning out some money to get this country moving again. You won’t let government spend money on infrastructure projects and our business elites are too busy building their next mansion. Those elites are oblivious to the real needs of getting this country back on track.Yes that includes a few arrogant Democrats.

          • Brad

            Instead of complaining about it eddie, what would you sujest this country do?

          • eddie47d

            I believe I did mention that.Release money to the business community (from banks) and take care of our infrastructure problems (govt.).

          • Cawmun Cents

            A few? Hahahahahahaha….that my friend is the understatement of the century.

          • Brad

            Please eddie,

            I now see you have no clue how the government works to include business. First of all the US governemnt does not produce a single widget, on the other hand private industry does and the US government buys said widget, how, our tax dollars that’s how. Currently States maintain their roads, each state receives from the fed tax dollars that you and I pay into every time we fill up our gas tanks. That’s right part of the tax goes into the DOT’s fed road maintanance fund which each state gets some every year to help maintain said roads. Now the state has go out and requests from road paving company’s contract bids for said road to include material costs, labor, total time for completion and so and so forth. The state is required to review each offer and award a contract to a company, now they may not be the lowest bidder and they may not be the highest bidder, the state will choose a contractor based on past results and being able to maintain a budget.

            Let me give you a shorter story, Constellation energy wanted to install a third nuclear reactor at the plant 15 miles from my house. Constellation energy requested a loan guarenty of 7 billion from the state, the state said no. Now Constellation energy would have footed the entire bill, they were only seeking the assistance of the state, also that power would have stayed in the state to help power DC and Baltimore.

          • Matt Newell

            If you look you will see there is a connection between the CEO salaries and the government regulations. I don’t fault the people working for the large companies, but I DO doubt the government rules and regulations.

            It seems that the board of directors for the companies must have an interest (money?) in what is going on or they would remove the CEO. If nothing else the shareholders should change the board if they don’t like the way things are going.

            The government needs to put a halt to the excessive rules and regulations by the government departments. They have a tendency to make a department and turn them loose to make the rules and regulations. The people should DEMAND that congress control the beast they made. Since that seems to be the thing they don’t want to do — vote them out of office and put in someone who will.

          • eddie47d

            Brad;Nice of you to slap your self on the back. Most roads are built with taxpayer money. Whether the State,Federal or Private company does the work. There are plenty on this site who don’t even understand that concept.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Brad,
            you are lucky. We had Perry nuclear built here about 12 to 14 miles from me. They, when trying to convince the people that it was needed told us the story about how it was gonna LOWER our bills by 25% or more. Well, our bills doubled over night and 73% or more of the power leaves the state!!!

          • http://?? Joe H.

            One other thing. when they built it, most all of the workers were brought in from out of state to build it! They did hire a few locals to calm the local population, but not many. We here thought it would have been better to hire as many locals possible as they would have a vested interest in it being built safe, no luck there!! Oh, the village of Perry got a new modern campus type high school and free cable!!! now that taxes got lowered on the property, all the communities are making do with a big cut in tax revenue!!

          • Lewis Munn

            The banks have already loaned out loads of money to bad risks, and had to eat humble pie and get government loans to cover…which means we ALL, except maybe you, have to pay for the stupidity of the government’s forcing the bad loans.

            If the government forces banks into bad decisions, why should I have to pay? Let the senators who voted for the bad decisions pay; they make far far more than I do! And the government administrators who overlooked the bad deals, they can pay for their errors. I should not have to, should I?

        • Cawmun Cents

          Quite simply put…a “progressive” wants control of your materials,resources,and destiny.That is the “progressive” way.And as in the case of Wiscairo Democrats,if they cant have absolute control,they refuse to participate,or confront you with a catch 22 situation,like they have Gov.Walker.Either see it our way or you will have to make a campaign endangering decision,for the next re-election.Promises be damned,willingness to do what it takes…tested.

          • mark

            Us, Progressives are compaaionate and we believe in giving every American Citizens their human rights to food, health care, education and shelter. WE have to have rules and social programs to protect the people in this country because you greddy conservatives would just let people starve to death so you could have more money in your pockets. The greed of conservatives and their creed of only the strong should survive is just immoral and so selfess.

          • JeffH

            So Wrong mark, mark…So Wrong.
            “Us, Progressives are compaaionate and we believe in giving every American Citizens their human rights to food, health care, education and shelter. WE have to have rules and social programs to protect the people in this country because you greddy conservatives would just let people starve to death so you could have more money in your pockets. The greed of conservatives and their creed of only the strong should survive is just immoral and so selfess.

            Compassionate with someone elses money…it’s called thievery!

            we believe in giving every American Citizens their human rights to food, health care, education and shelter…again, you take other peoples money and give…called thievery.

            You liberals like to force your will on the people, which is immoral.

            Who gives the most in America: conservatives or liberals(progressives}
            The fact is that self-described “conservatives” in America are more likely to give—and give more money—than self-described “liberals.” In the year 2000, households headed by a conservative gave, on average, 30 percent more dollars to charity than households headed by a liberal. And this discrepancy in monetary donations is not simply an artifact of income differences. On the contrary, liberal families in these data earned an average of 6 percent more per year than conservative families.
            Hmmm, let’s see…on average liberals make 6% more but donate 30% less to charity. Kinda blows your “theory” out of the water doesn’t it?

            Conservative Americans were more likely to donate blood each year, and did so more often, than liberals. People who said they were “conservative” or “extremely conservative” made up less than one-fifth of the population, but donated more than a quarter of the blood. To put this in perspective, if political liberals and moderates gave blood like conservatives do, the blood supply in the United States would surge by nearly half.

            Aren’t people who favor social spending just as charitable as people who give money to charities?
            About 80 percent of American liberals say they think the government should “do more” to reduce income inequality, versus just 27 percent of American conservatives.

            People who stated in that they thought the government was “spending too little money on welfare” were less likely than those saying the government is “spending too much money on welfare” to give food or money to a homeless person.

            There is evidence that private giving is implicated in economic growth. Per-capita charity and per-capita GDP in America have moved together over the years. Evidence that the two forces cause each other comes from an analysis of how past values of one variable affect future values of the other.

            If we substituted our private charitable giving for government redistributive programs, we would pay a price in terms of economic growth, personal prosperity, and even happiness. Charitable giving should be seen not just as a nice detail about American life, and even less as a mere tax deduction. It should be seen as a national priority.
            http://www.american.com/archive/2008/march-april-magazine-contents/a-nation-of-givers

          • JC

            Jeff, what mark doesn’t or can’t recognize are the benefits provided to society by responsible productive people. When people take responisibility for their own welfare and that of their families, they “must” contribute to society. Either by creating jobs or patronizing jobs already in existence. He doesn’t realize that by robbing responsible people of their hard earned wealth that the motivation to produce is lost.
            We can not tax and spend our way to prosperity it simply does not work.
            mark is hung up on compassion…well so am I, but how can I help the people of my community if the state has reduced us all to the same level of poverty?

            mark needs to grow up.

          • bob wire

            So I’m left to agree with Jeff or change his point of views in regards to the makeup and character of DNC membership. ~ I find the probable of failure to be about 99% with ether task.

            Allow me to only say, if you knew as much as you thought you knew, the need for any discussion would be superfluous and unnecessary. Your purpose would be clear.

            Trash talking is a facet of the contest and some seem to enjoy it more then others.

            It would be just as easy for me to lay down a trail of inflammatory, stereotypical accusation and paint opposition in a unflattering fashion. But I ask,~ To what end? Who does it serve?

            I’m with Ben Crystal in this regard, ~ fun is fun, but it’s time to get serious and dispense with the adolescent Nanny Nanny Poo Poo games.

            I have mixed feeling about unions myself, ~ but what’s news? I carry mixed feeling about everything I have ever be exposed to. I’m one of those people that wouldn’t want to belong to a club that would accept me as a member.

            I wouldn’t wish for everyone to be like me or think as I think, but a certain amount of civility would be most welcome.

            What headway Walker makes is uncertain at this point but one thing is for certain, if he achieves all of his goals, a new, different monster will be born as the result. Of the two monsters, it’s my belief, you would prefer the old.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            JeffH,
            My daughter donates blood every time she is again eligible! she has been doing this since she turned 17 and she is almost 21 now!! I’m damn proud of her, if you can’t tell!!

          • http://?? Joe H.

            By the way, she is definately a conservative!!

          • JeffH

            bobby…shut up! You’re neither funny nor entertaining but more of a pompous ass most of the time.

          • Jana

            JeffH,

            bob wire is one of those mixed up people who thinks he knows a lot more than he does.
            I have heard of it called, a jack of all trades and a master at nothing.

            He tries to come across as someone who is an expert in EVERYTHING, but he just isn’t as smart as he thinks he is and sometimes he is delusional.
            A few times he has actually sounded intelligent, then at other times it appears that he is smoking something or taking something. It’s like someone else is writing his posts, but we know its him because of his sarcasm and bad attitude.

      • WayneT

        Jovianus, did the Wiconsin governor violate any laws? If so, I would agree with you. If no laws were violated, then I disagree with you. I believe anyone, or any corporation, can donate as much as they wish to a persons political campaign. I think that this may have been ruled on by the US Supreme Court, if I remember correctly. I don’t agree with the courts ruling, but they have come to this conclusion and we all must abid by it.

        • Jovianus

          Did the good governor violate any laws/

          I dunno…planning on sending goons into the demonstrators to disrupt peaceful demonstartions…then using that as “proof” they are violent; talking about selling state owned utilities for pennie on the dollar; openly admitting the reason for legilsation has nothing to do with the stated ‘needs’ for it; deliberately creating a deficit to create a ‘reason’ to bust unions.

          I dunno…see any laws which may have been broken in any of that?

          • Cawmun Cents

            First…define “goons”.Second…just exactly who sent in the “goons”in the first place?Were they bussed in as the “peaceful” protesters were?Hmmmm…yet to be determined I suppose….

          • Jana

            Cawmun sense,
            jovi always throws out allegations with no proof.

          • Jana

            Sorry, I meant Cawmun Cents. Its getting late.

          • Lewis Munn

            “Planning” is not the same as doing.

      • Vigilant

        Jovianus is at it again: “I think they should pass a law that all donations made by Americans for Progress should have the recipient be tatto’d on their forehead with “Bought and paid for by the Koch Brothers.”

        How ’bout “I think they should pass a law that all non-Democrat union members whose dues are used to support Democrat candidates should be allowed to wear a badge that says, ‘Forced to support candidates I do not approve of.’”

        If you have a mental age of greater than 14, you’ll note that donations are just that, FREE, uncorced donations. Use of union dues to support the candidate of a single party is NOT free donation. It’s subversion of the democratic process. Wake up, airhead!

      • JeffH

        Jovianus, you libs like to throw the Koch name around like they are the evil donors in our society. Problem is, you never post anything other than they are funding “Tea Parties” and donating to libertarian causes. Other than their lobbying for their corporations, I don’t see any negative in funding anti-Marxist/socialist/communist organizations like the wonderful anti-American George Soros and the SEIU, NEA and the AFL/CIO do.

        Anytime you want to compare notes on who’s spending, what they’re spending it on and how much between the Koch Bros, Soros and those unions I just mentioned…bring it on! You guys just hate the Koch’s because they are the anti-Soros and you desperatly need to demonize someone or something that disrupts the Marxist ideals you and others so clearly support.

        It’s real easy to give the impression that there is something anti-American, terrible and evil by name repetition, it’s another thing to prove it.

        • http://! Angel Wannabe

          JeffH, Rah, Rah, Jeff! :)

        • eddie47d

          The Koch Brothers are the biggest polluters in the USA. The want to abolish the Clean Air Act and The Clean Water Act. If they do that they will be able to pollute our air and water even more. If that is Pro American to you then maybe you are Anti-American. That is if you want to play your silly marxist games instead of being more honest on the issue.

          • JeffH

            eddie, directly answer the challenge? STRIKE ONE

            Your answer in no way responds to the question, speaking of Marxist games.

          • JeffH

            Again, you guys just hate the Koch’s because they are the anti-Soros and you desperatly need to demonize someone or something that disrupts the Marxist ideals you and others so clearly support.

          • Jana

            JeffH,

            ACORN, CAIR, ACLU, William Ayers, Valleri Jarrett, Van Jones, Cecelia Munoz etc.

            The only thing wrong with the Koch Brothers to the leftists is the fact that they are for the Conservatives.

      • http://googlechrome.com Raymond Babcock

        my exsperence with unions here in topeka the rank and file voted to go to work the union wanted more management locked out seymour foods is no longer in topeka kansas they went over seas seymour foods was going to merge with frito lay the union cost all of are jobs

  • Nan

    What the democratic representatives have done in Wisconsin deserves jail time.
    They were appointed to represent the people. Jail Time it should be.

    • Robin from Arcadia, IN

      Nan… They did it in Indiana, too. What great examples they are, huh?

      • Chris

        How soon that you all forget that the republicans did the same thing in Texas a few years ago.

        • http://www.politicsofliberty.com Don

          Actually, that was the Democrats who left the state in Texas to keep from having a quorum. It wasn’t the Republicans

          • Vigilant

            In any case, it doesn’t matter who did it. Willful obstruction of the democratic, legislative process in such a manner should result in loss of job, fines and possible jail time.

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            Don, Apparently the Dems all have “If I don’t get my way, I’ll Take my Dollies and Go home Symdrom”! :)

          • Jana

            Don,
            You are so right. In Texas it was the Democrats who played run and hide like the cowards and sore losers they are.

            And, Vigilant, I think it does matter WHO did it. These are the tactics of the Democrats, and yes I do agree it should be a firing offense. The only problem we have a few not so bright’s that keep reelecting these losers.

        • Aix Sponsa

          Hey, let’s be realistic. NOBODY cares if any political jurisdiction is insolvent, just as long as the individuals keep getting their money. (contradiction?)

        • WayneT

          Chris, then they should have forfeited their pay, and be fired too. What is good for the goose is good for the gander. I would never vote for either party that was too much of a coward to cast a yea, or nay vote. We have to be more principled to let anyone get away with this nonsense.

          • Jana

            Wayne T,
            It was the Democrats, not the Republicans that ran away.

        • JIBBS

          Think before you speak, or was that the dems thinking and speaking for you. Join the SHEEPLE club.

        • http://googlechrome.com Raymond Babcock

          no if you say it long enough some people will start beliving it any one elected to office should be fired no more money the money alone will keep them in there sits

      • Lewis Munn

        Yeh, they should have gone and vacationed in Yemen, or Afghanistan, or maybe North Korea. At least get some overseas education!

    • Jovianus

      Ummm..they are representing the People. Doing their job and forcing the issue into public debate. It’s the good governor who is representing someone other than the people.

      • http://! Angel Wannabe

        jo__ they’re representing solidarity with those they are in bed with, the Union!!_-C’mon who you tryin to kid!

        I’m outta here, must attend a funeral!

        • mark

          In a Capitalstic economy, workers have the right to Unionize and strike, just as businesses have the right to charge a price for their goods and services!

          • Vigilant

            You might want to bone up on the meaning of the word “capitalism.” No where does the economic definition of it include unions or strikes.

            You might also want to bone up on current events: The “right” to strike has not been an issue here. The privilege of collective bargaining is the topic.

          • Cawmun Cents

            You mean like the right of Healthcare?You remember…the one that was made mandatory?Is a right mandatory?Hmmmm seems like we have a conundrum here.

          • JIBBS

            Are you letting the dems think and speak for you again ?

          • Lewis Munn

            Is there a Legislator’s Union that is striking? Hadn’t heard of it!

            Maybe the governor should just turn the state back over to the Feds to run as a territory. Make them responsible!

        • Vigilant

          Jovianus: “Ummm..they are representing the People. Doing their job and forcing the issue into public debate. It’s the good governor who is representing someone other than the people.”

          So now subverting the legislative process is “representing the people.” Only Joe Goebbals would agree with you on that perversion of the truth.

          • Jovianus

            I know…I know..forcing through legislation without public hearings or testimony as to what it says and does is sooooo anti-American. how dare those Sentaors insist on having public hearings and testimony !

          • Vigilant

            Jovi,

            Where were you during the Obamacare non-debate? Strange silence in the hallowed halls of Congress when Pelosi and Reid denied the Repubs any meaningful input to a bill which, ultimately, “we’ll have to pass so we can find out what’s in it.”

            Ooops, your hypocrisy is showing…..

          • smilww

            Vig

            The health care bill was debated for a year, many committee meeting were held in both houses and republicans offered several hundred amendments and almost two hundred passed and are a part of the law albeoit the republicans did not vote for the final bill. Interesting that the republicans did not offer any amendments to cut medical costs and unfortunately some democrats did not vote for their cost cutting amendments so no cost reduction of medical costs are in the law but there is quite a few reductions in insurance costs that the insurance lobby agreed to in exchange for 30 million new customers they will now be limited to 15% overhead instead of the current 30 to 40% and if they exceed that they have to reduce premiums of return the excess. You do not hear much about that do you!! There was no hearings in Wisconsin, it was a dictatorial action on the part of the Republicans, a complete departure from the norm and in no way is comparable to the health care reform law.

          • Jana

            smileww,
            Anything the Republicans had to offer were ignored. Remember Obama said they should go to the back of the bus?
            Sure, there were committees behind closed doors. The will of the taxpayers were ignored.

      • Doug

        Oh the demorats want debate now! Jovianus hey why don’t me you play some poker! I will decide which hands wins depending on the rule I make up each hand we play! Are you in Jovianus? Now the demorats want debate WTF!

      • ValDM

        It’s a little hard to debate when you’re not even in the state, but less the sam room. Your guys are a bunch of weasels; stop defending them.

      • GregS

        Jovianus says:

        “It’s the good governor who is representing someone other than the people.”

        Wrong! You forget that he was elected by a MAJORITY of the people. Furthermore, the latest Rasmussen polls show that 48% of likely US voters AGREE with the Governor, whereas only 38% disagree.

        • Aix Sponsa

          Consider = Majority rule is just one step from mob rule. Is that democracy?

          • Vigilant

            No, it’s a REPUBLIC, designed by the Founders specifically to prevent mob rule.

          • GregS

            Mob rule is control or government by a gang, often of violent criminals who gain power through force.

            The election of Governor Walker was done voluntarily by the population in an organized fashion.

            Therefore, where do you get the idea that “mob rule” has anything to do with this discussion, except for the fact that mobs, who are opposed to the Governor, stormed the capitol?

          • Aix Sponsa

            Vig= That’s the point. Glad you were thinking. How many people today on how many issues are screaming, “The majority wants this” ?

          • Cawmun Cents

            The Democrats’definition of “mob rule”,is that the biggest crowd that shows up waving signs,most accurately depicts the mood of us all.This must of course be true,especially if they show it on Television,right?Ah yes…and the destiny of “democracy” in the “free” world depends on that tactic.Maybe if the media showed some footage of pre World War 2 demonstrations,we wouldnt get the feeling that history is about to repeat itself?

          • bob wire

            “Wrong! You forget that he was elected by a MAJORITY of the people. Furthermore, the latest Rasmussen polls show that 48% of likely US voters AGREE with the Governor, whereas only 38% disagree.”

            Well, this pollster favors the right and that’s why the right uses them so often (it works for me) and even if they were correct these numbers are changing in favor of pro union by the day.

            Walter is losing the public opinion war the longest this going forward.

            Walker has shot himself in the foot for any Presidential aspirations.

            Like Palin, he’s damage now goods. That’s what happens when you stick your neck out too far in politics without holding a flush hand. He was hoping to draw into it and he missed.

            opps!

        • Jovianus

          1. Rasmussen is out of step with the majority of respected polls and is using a diffrent question than what the mainstream pollsters say should be used;

          2. Rasmussen is always more bent to a conservative finding and has margins of error showing that;

          3. Rasmussen polls you cite is a “national” poll, not a Wisconsin poll

          4. Rasmussen poll is using a smaller sample set than other polls..and that has a larger margin of error statisically

          Any other questions?

          • Vigilant

            The accuracy of polls is measured by the ultimate results (proof is in the pudding). Rasmussen has demonstrated more accuracy than almost any other polling organization in America, and that’s a FACT.

            Any other questions?

          • GregS

            Well said, Vigilant! In addition to what you said, Jovianus failed to give any specific examples of the polls that he was talking about. For all we know his definitions of “respected polls” are probably polls conducted by Democrats and large unions.

          • Jovianus

            Greg… on those polls I posted that yesterday. Sorry. Gallup, USA Today and PublicOpinion.

            Seems when I call up my handy dandy website showing polls and past accuracy, Rasmussen ranks in the lower half. i’ll post the link to that site if you care to be educated.

          • JIBBS

            Wake up!, all polls are flawed, to the left or right !!!

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            Jibbs, I don’t trust polls either, and don’t refer to them as a source for that reason.

          • Vigilant

            Jovi once more puts his foot in his maw. Re: “Seems when I call up my handy dandy website showing polls and past accuracy, Rasmussen ranks in the lower half. i’ll post the link to that site if you care to be educated.”

            Well, sonny, you posted this morning. Where’s that link? Somebody hack into the biased left wing sites and you can’t find the list?

            Try http://www.mason-dixon.com/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=PressOffice.Article&ContentRecord_id=f1e66ca1-1372-fa49-99bd-58f6c5a4e505 or perhaps http://washingtonindependent.com/30539/rasmussen-the-only-poll-that-matters

            There’s a village somewhere with a dire need for an idiot. Time to put in your curriculum vitae.

          • JeffH

            Vigilant, just amazing! Why is it that the polls by Rasmussen are cited regularly by multiple major news sources, and Rasmussen has appears as a guest analyst on any number of news broadcasts, including the Fox News Channel, the BBC, CNN, NPR, and CNBC and local television affiliates. However, not surprising though, MSNBC does not use Rasmussen polls.

            Rasmussen Reports has also has been featured on prominent television entertainment programs such as The Colbert Report, The Tonight Show, Gossip Girl and The West Wing.

            Scott Rasmussen is a frequent radio guest analyst and was named the 15th most desired radio guest during 2010 out of more than 1,000 potential guests.

            Rasmussen polls have been cited in national print publications including the Wall Street Journal, USA Today, The Washington Post, The Los Angeles Times, The Boston Globe, Investor’s Business Daily, The Christian Science Monitor, US News & World Report, Sports Illustrated, and other major publications.

            Trade publications have also referenced the company’s data, including Advertising Age, Adweek, BrandWeek, the Radio & Television Business Report and Variety. The anti-war organization After Downing Street commissioned a Rasmussen poll on support, or lack thereof, for the impeachment of President Bush.

            Rasmussen Reports surveys are referred to by those that could be considered U.S. opinion leaders, from media personalities to Congress to the White House. According to The New York Times Magazine, the White House Political Director reported on Rasmussen’s results directly to President Obama’s former chief of staff Rahm Emanuel. The Washington Post reported that Rasmussen’s polls “set off alarm bells inside the Oval Office, according to a senior administration official, who would not be quoted by name discussing private deliberations within the White House.”

            Sounds like they are what I’ve always heard…one of, if not, the most accurate and best pollsters out there.

          • bob wire

            I love the Rasmussen polls, ~ to be delightfully misinformed works for me.

          • Vigilant

            Thanks for the support, Jeff. Looks like Jovianus’ “handy dandy” stats have evaporated into thin air.

      • bhscpa

        You must have missed the November 2010 elections. Progressives, Democrats and their Communist unions got a big vote of NO confidence. The people of WI (aka voters, taxpayers) shut down the big government, pro-union special interests to give Walker a chance to represent the folks who pay the bills (givers). Unions (takers) should get used to taking a little less, try to leave some blood in the host.

      • JeffH

        Jovianus, the bigger question might be “who are the unions paying to represent them”? Maybe a little hint(Democrats)will help.

        Unions have been stalwart supporters of the Democratic Party and do so with their pocketbooks. Since 1990, labor unions have contributed over $667 million in election campaigns in the United States, of which $614 million or 92 percent went to support Democratic candidates.

        In 2008, unions spent $74.5 million in campaign contributions, with $68.3 million going to the Democratic Party. Already, unions have contributed $6.5 million to the 2010 elections, and $6 million has gone to Democrats, according to the Center for Responsive Politics in Washington, D.C.

        The United Auto Workers union has donated almost $25 million to Democratic Party candidates since 1990…

        The National Education Association and the American Federation of Teachers which since 1990 have contributed more than $50 million to support Democratic candidates running for office.

        Is it coincidence that construction and industrial unions have contributed a least $150-200 million to Democratic candidates since 1990? Whp’s gonna get the nations “infrastructure” jobs?
        http://www.aier.org/research/briefs/1550-obama-thanks-his-friends-government-spending-and-union-support

    • Patriot

      That is more taxpayer money; no jail time. They either lose there job or tar & feathers in the public sqaure, they can pick their punishment!

      • Aix Sponsa

        They’d probably pick being sent home for 90 days WITH pay.

  • Joseph C, Moore, Cpo USN Ret.

    The teachers and the demoicrats who abdicate should (at least) be censured and fined. I would (if in a position to) terminate (not kill, but fire) them.

    • Aix Sponsa

      Governor should say: “Send me your list of 20,000 volunteers to lose their jobs by Friday at noon, because Monday morning I’m going to start throwing darts at lists of names.” Yes, I heard that supposedly all teachers have been fired.

  • Teresa

    PAY ATTENTION…IF YOU CANT SEE THAT THIS IS TO KEEP YOUR FOCUS AWAY FROM WHAT IS REALLY HAPPENING THEN YOU BETTER OPEN YOUR EYES WIDER!!! FOCUS PEOPLE FOR THE GOVERNMENT AND THE ADMINISTRATION NOW WILL BE USING TACTICS TO TURN YOU AWAY FROM WHAT YOU REALLY NEED TO BE FOCUSED ON!!!!! AND YOU BETTER BE PREPARED!!!!!

  • jvr

    Good article. As for most of the comments, not so much.

  • Bobber

    I believe that friendship and civil discourse with those who support the murder of babies, theft through taxation, the elimination of God’s morality, and who actively seek to destroy America is impossible for anyone who is even remotely a true conservative. I am proud to say that I do not number any such people among my friends and that, unless I suffer some sort of brain damage, never will. The mix with evil is to be evil.

    • jvr

      As I said above, “as for the comments not so much”. Yours is simply disgusting.

      • Bobber

        I am glad it disgusts you because that means it is the truth and liberals hate the truth.

      • Vigilant

        What’s “jvr” stand for? “joker, verifiably Red (as in communist red)?”

  • SMSgt Z retired Nam 68

    The call to the Wisconsin Governor the TRUTH behind the redirect Ha Ha

  • jopa

    About the only one I see linking the Arizona murders and assassinations to Sarah Palin are this Chrystal Meth guy with his articles.I guess if your not saying something controversial nobody will read your crap.I think the democrats that control Washington now should pass a bill saying republicans that watch Faux should lose their voting rights due to the fact they are misinformed.

    • WayneT

      jopa, you are so far out of it that you might as well be on the Planet Pluto. Maybe you should watch Fox news a little more so you can come back down to earth. I don’t know what you want for America, but most of us want freedom from government control. You might be better off in some Communist Country.

      • Jovianus

        Anyone who watches FOX News and thinks it has any accuracy is out of touch with reality. Try using drugs … it’ll get you closer to reality than FOX

        • Vigilant

          Fox was the ONLY channel in which recent poll respondents had more trust than distrust. By your reckoning, there’s one hell of a lot of Americans who are out of touch with reality.

          As the Frenchie said in Monty Python’s “Holy Grail,” “I fart in your general direction.”

          Wake up. Wacko!

          • Vigilant

            If you have more than rudimentary reading abilities, you may want to check http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0110/32039.html

            But I doubt you have/will.

          • Carlucci

            I had totally forgotten about “Frenchie” and his famous saying that you just quoted. LOL – !! I will get a few chuckles out of that all day today.

            At Thanksgiving dinner someone brought up “Mr. Creosote” in the MP restaurant episode where he exploded. Naturally after a few glasses of wine, I couldn’t stop laughing.

          • Jovianus

            Vigilant…nice news story. Not relevant to accuracy of polls…but if it is the best you have, ya gotta use it eh?

            Would you like the link to the recent study showing the most uninformed and unfactual people are those watching Fox News? I have it available if you want it.

          • Vigilant

            Jovi, not-so-closet communist, says, “Would you like the link to the recent study showing the most uninformed and unfactual people are those watching Fox News? I have it available if you want it.”

            “Uninformed and unfactual?” I doubt you have any source that will claim that. A large percentage of self-styled “liberals” watch Fox as well. What’s your rejoinder?

            If you can define what an “unfactual” person is, you will have taken the use of adjectives to a new low. And don’t site anything that talks about levels of education. Nothing speaks more to the thorough programming of socialist automatons than does “level of education” in today’s socialist university environment.

            So, go ahead and press on…I’ll be interested in taking you on with this faux poll you claim proves what it doesn’t.

          • Vigilant

            Jovi’s sure likes to talk about “sources” he has, and then never follows up with the beef. Stop crying “wolf,” child.

          • JeffH

            Vigilant, it seems to be a common trait with the lefties.

          • bob wire

            Vigilant says:
            February 24,

            If you have more than rudimentary reading abilities, you may want to check http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0110/32039.html

            But I doubt you have/will.”

            Three question come to I mind, how accurate is the poll? and if it is, what does that mean? And , if it isn’t, what does that mean?

            Trust but verify and if you can’t, don’t. ~ I’ll take it into consideration vigilant & thanks

        • WayneT

          You could not handle the truth, Jovianus, even if it would hit you up side the head. When Glenn Beck tells something he can always back it up by video clips of what some one has said, or has not said. The democrats can’t do this because they are afraid of what they said the day before, might be different from what they said, or would be saying today. I liken you Liberals, or Communist, what ever your mindset, to the group protecting the idiot, Gaddafi, and the ones that are against him trying to get freedom to we Conservatives. We Conservatives want freedom and a limited goverment. Nobama, the one you support, has Communists, and Socialists in his elite Czars. We don’t need them in a free country. Let them go back to their homeland, or to China, or Russia where they should be happy with all the government control over them.

        • JIBBS

          So, your saying that the news outlets that you watch are correct on their reporting and don’t lie ? What drugs are you on ?, any left overs ?

        • http://! Angel Wannabe

          Jo, like messNBC, CNN, are any better._-Thats funny!_ They are owned an operated by The Progressives. They are told what to say and how to word, can you spell the word_P-r-o-p-a-g-a-n-d-a!!!
          Fox news is censored and controlled too to a point, but not quite so. They present the opposite side of your liberal slant!

      • Lewis Munn

        He should turn Muslim; they even tell you when to pray, what to say, and how big the sticks you beat your wives with can be…he would get along well there. He also should like the required fasts. Take off some blubber, perhaps?

        Shall we raise a fund to send him?

    • Cawmun Cents

      Are you speaking of “rights”? You mean like the “right” of healthcare? A “right” made mandatory and signed into law so that you can be fined if you do not purchase it? That kind of “right”? Is that the kind of “right” you are speaking of?

      • WayneT

        Cawmum, the Libs and the Communist will not be able to comprehend what you have said. The need to live in a group home where they can be looked aftet and cared for by free people who are not afraid to go out on their own to make a living.

        • Cawmun Cents

          They have such a home Wayne T,its called the Ivy League Academics Home For Disturbed Progressive Liberals….or what we used to call the White House.

  • Cathy R.

    Execellent, Bobber. Neither do I. I will listen to them until they show me their ignorance or that they stand to gain from their support of the evil. That’s one of our problems, we try to listen to them and compromise. Again, “the mix with evil is to be evil.” Diversity, by the way, does not strengthen us, it divides.

    • Bobber

      Amen!

  • WayneT

    Lets face it, the Republicans face up to their responsiblty better than the Democrats. Those Democrats in Wi. should all forfeit their pay for the time they are off the job. After their term is up, they should just fade away, and coward back into society. I would never vote for a person who refused to do their job. Anyone voting for them would be just as bad in my opinion. To the good folks of Wi, vote these cowards out of office when their term is up. You need some one who can stand up to the pressures of the job.

    • bob wire

      Not having filibusterer rules, ~ It’s simply Parliamentary procedure at work Wayne. You are left to use the rules ! Governor Walker was using the rules and time to usher this game changing bill through, by presenting it to the floor at the end of a Friday workday for an up or down vote. He was using the rules. That 13 DNC state senators have slipped his rope and refused to accept a imminent defeat by using the rules you cry foul?

      Time is a big part of the game Wayne, and the clock is still ticking. I would like to see Walker fire and lay off several hundred people and the people of Wisconsin rise up and recall the Governor’s election.

      I’d like to some class action laws suits files against the state and for the GOP to get a big bloody nose here in the lead up to 2012.

      I’d like to see CLEAT (law enforcement union) and the TEAMSTERS weigh in with their rank and file .

      So ~ there more at sake here then one might think and the last card is far from being played.

      • Aix Sponsa

        This whole thing is just the tip of the iceberg. The first domino to fall. Imminent financial collapse is just lurking around the corner.

      • Vigilant

        How ’bout class action lawsuits against the legislators who abdicate their responsibilities? Or a court action to remove certification from doctors guilty of malpractice (issuing excuses without knowledge of medical history)? Perhaps enforcement of vagrancy laws or docking the teachers for every day they don’t discharge their responsibilities?

        This animal has more than one side, bob.

        • bob wire

          “How ’bout class action lawsuits against the legislators who abdicate their responsibilities?” If the case can be made , why not?

      • WayneT

        Bob, you can try to convince me that the Democrats are right in this until your blue in the face. Regardless of any laws that would prohibit this, the Democrats conduct in this is still wrong. I would say the same thing with either party. Right is right, and wrong is wrong, and these Democrats are failing to do their job they were hired to do. They also have a moral responsibility. They should all be fired, and I bet they will be. People will not put up with conduct like this. If these Democrats would be elected again, the people voting for them would be a bunch of retards and would deserve everything they get. Maybe we should just feel sorry for them. Again I would say the same thing if they were Republicans. It is just plsin wrong what their are doing, and you know it too.

        • bob wire

          “Right is right, and wrong is wrong,”

          hmm? well if it was all that simple Wayne, what’s the need for juries and attorneys?

          But Wayne , you are entitled to your thoughts and to defend them.

          I presided over a grand jury for 3 months in my county and heard many things that would curl your toes and make you throw up.

          While this is not such a case, we had a man come before us for attempted murder. It seems he had taken a table leg and beat a man within a inch of death with little doubt that it was premeditated.

          After hearing sworn testimony, we NO Billed this individual, cut him loss, let him go to the great protest of the DA’s office.

          It’s seems the victim had burnt the defendants house to the ground hours earlier for not loaning the injured party some money.

          Another case the defendant was accused of rape with in custody of a mental institution. Again we NO BILLed the defendant as he was incarcerated as being insane and deemed as a threat to the public at the time of the sexual assault.

          So right and wrong is whatever you think it is and I’m not near as sure as you seem to be about the acts taken by these 13 state senators.

          This is not the first case of such an event of failing to appear for a vote. While not common, it’s not rare.

          Politician often fail to appear for an unpopular vote, ~ in so doing , it is a vote in it’s self yet falls to show on record as a up or down vote.

          So Wanyne , the world is not black or white as you suggest but more like cats, ~ gray when seen in the dark.

      • JIBBS

        Use your money, not mine. I’d like to see them (unions) get a bloody punch in the face wake up call. When your boss gives you work late in the day on a Friday and says this needs to be done today, so you run away if you don’t like it ?

  • bob wire

    “Believe it or not, the partisan style of American politics is a blessing.”

    I’m not surprise that so many here would think otherwise Ben as they protest any resistance against their stance on “any” issue.

    It’s almost comical at times. It’s this process of opposing views that creates the “balance” the state of the union depends on. When we see no opposition or very little opposition our system of government that things goes to the dogs.

    Just like this flare up in Wisconsin, I see it as a good thing. Let us allow the forces that be come forward, win, lose or draw, there will be an “outcome” an adjustment and we will move forward with whatever it maybe.

    There will be cry’s of “NOT FAIR”, heated protest and someone with incur some damage. It could be the power of Unions on a national level or the power of the GOP on a national level. Much hangs in the balance as we make our way to 2012 general elections.

    Sometimes we win to end up losing. Sometimes we lose and end up winning.

    It’s is exciting to be involved and to witness partisan politics at work, but it is a long game and the GOP has been winning the better part of 30 year and largely responsible for today’s current affairs.

    What changes 44 has made on the world stage will be much clearer 5 to 7 years from now. For the better or the worse of it the Arab nations are attempting to come into the 21 century and “O” is allowing it to play out, which I don’t think would be a standard GOP response.

    • ValDM

      I’m surprised you would make such a reasonable comment. before the 2010 elections, I don’t recall you being so reasonable. In fact, the way I remember your posts, was that you were fairly GLOATING about Odumbo and his merry band of henchmen making such obvious power-grabbing legislation. What bit you?

      • bob wire

        You embellish, ~ but that’s okay, it’s all in good fun. I have been gracious in victory and defeat. It not my way to b1tch slap people around and toot my horn~ unless they are really, really demanding it.

        Perhaps you are just being hypersensitive or confuse me with another?

      • bob wire

        Oh! and while I have a hard time accepting Wisconsin teachers make 75 to 80, grand a year. I have always resented this wages disparity between the union, nonunion in both the public and private sector.

        While I don’t see it as the reason we find ourselves in the hole today or that it will somehow get us out, I believe it’s about time this disparity is addressed.

        I buy my loaf of bread and gallon of gas from the same place people that work for government and government vendors do and over the span of 40 years I’ve found it most demanding to keep up.

    • Aix Sponsa

      When Trump causes a Perot and BHO gets re-elected he will fix everything in his second term. (I write sarcasticly to explain to liberals)

  • soldier

    Things become clear when you reverse things. From the prospective of many conservatives, what the Democrat legislators are doing looks cowardly but what if there was a bill in Wisconsin to impose more stupid gun control laws and the republicans were in a minority? Would we think it cowardly that the few republicans flee to Texas to prevent a quorum needed in order to vote on an anti-constitutional gun control bill? No, if anything we would think of them as heroes for engaging in this type of civil disobedience. Ghandi and MLK JR both advocated engaging in civil disobedience and doing everything in their power excluding violence to try to engage in revolution. Both of them were pretty successful, although both died in the end.

    As another example, I think about the conservative argumant that invading Iraq after 911 was ok because Saddam Hussein “supported” the terrorists. Lets try and reverse things. Lets say a group of illegal aliens (who we “support”) plot to blow up buildings in China. A sort of Chinease 911 if you will. Would we feel the Chinease were justified in invading OUR country with the goal of slaughtering the illegal aliens but setting up checkpoints for us, etc?? Would we greet the Chinease tanks and infantry formations marching down the streets in open arms as they impose restrictions on our liberties, etc.? Even if the Chinease just sent in special forces to deal with the illegal alien terrorist group hiding out in USA, would we ok with this? Something tells me we would not be ok with any of this… Hence, it seems our invasion of Iraq was not in the least bit justified if Osama Bin Ladin and Al Queida were the supposed masterminds.

    • JIBBS

      Guns are a right, unions are not.

      • Lewis Munn

        Sounds Constitutional to me. Tho probably not to a loaded Supreme Court.

  • Chris

    I see this board has taken on the tone of civility. Yeah, right. It doesn’t matter people. Neither Sarah Palin, Barack Obama, nor Jesus Christ is going to save this country. It’s been a good run down a long road, but the road to hell is paved with good intentions. You will soon have to face the fact that we are no longer number 1 and like all good (or bad) empires before us, we will crumble and let the next empire begin its reign. So stop wasting your breath bitching at each other and stock up your ammo, dry goods, silver bars; learn a little arabic or mandarin(most of you certainly didn’t learn any English), and get ready for the future.

    • Aix Sponsa

      That’s a little harsh, but I believe that financial collapse is imminent; which in itself is just the first major domino. Grandpa often said, “The next depression will make the 30s look like a church picnic.”

    • Aix Sponsa

      Granpa also said, “When the excrement strikes the rotating airfoil, the feculance is not equally distributed to all recipients.”

      • 45caliber

        I like your Grandpa already.

  • Mick

    WayneT says:
    February 24, 2011 at 9:01 am
    Lets face it, the Republicans face up to their responsiblty better than the Democrats. Those Democrats in Wi. should all forfeit their pay for the time they are off the job. After their term is up, they should just fade away, and coward back into society. I would never vote for a person who refused to do their job. Anyone voting for them would be just as bad in my opinion. To the good folks of Wi, vote these cowards out of office when their term is up. You need some one who can stand up to the pressures of the job.

    ************************************************
    WayneT……I am with you all the way, they should not get paid their credit card should be stripped and voting for cowards like that endanger our country…….

  • 45caliber

    I always try to be polite, even if I do sometimes call someone an idiot for believing as he does. (I can’t help it if he REALLY IS an idiot!) But there are some people who really try my patience. And not all of them are liberal.

    • Aix Sponsa

      Grandpa often said, “The only person who should be controlling your attitude and emotions should be you.” :-)

  • texastwin827

    Having grown up in a “union” family, even I can say that my father would not condone the unions of today. Unfortunately, they have strayed so far for the original intent of organization that they no longer deserve the respect they once garnered.

    My suggestion to the Wisconsin Governor….if you can’t get your legislature to “help” out where the help is needed….start issuing pink slips! It can no longer be “business as usual” however, some are too stupid to realize it or do not deal with necessary changes very well….for them, they have to learn the hard way.

    • bob wire

      I hope he does and finds out just how popular he can be.

      • 45caliber

        When Reagon did it, he certainly didn’t lose any popularity!

        • bob wire

          So true, ~ as I understand it , it turned the Russian head and they decided this old man ain’t no joke but the real deal. Maybe he does have one of those Star Killing Gizmo’s up his sleeve!

          You got to love old and able poker player.

        • bob wire

          In Walker’s case however, I just don’t think that it will fall that way.

          First off, ~ while working with an already tight state budget, Walker plays Santa to big business interest and then pits the middle class between itself, while depending on right leaning zealots to champion his cause.

          This smooth move tell the rest of the nation something about the Tea Party, something that the tea party would rather hide, and that is that they are pro business as the cost of the middle classes and there little difference between them and a Republican. Willing to say anything to get elected and then smooze and hob knob big business to keep them campaig contrubition flowing in so they can stay in power.

        • bob wire

          In Walker’s case however, I just don’t think that it will fall that way.

          First off, ~ while working with an already tight state budget, Walker plays Santa to big business interest and then pits the middle class between itself, while depending on right leaning zealots to champion his cause.

          This smooth move tell the rest of the nation something about the Tea Party, something that the tea party would rather hide, and that is that they are pro business as the cost of the middle classes and there little difference between them and a Republican. Willing to say anything to get elected and then smooze and hob knob big business to keep campaign contribution flowing in so they can stay in power. Bought and paid for!

          That democrats can be found equally guilty ~ is not the point !

          The point is ~ This Tea Party Governor has been exposed to be just another Republican with big money backer that has his ear and his ass-ets.

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            bobwire, and without big business there are no jobs._What the h*ll is it with you Libs, that don’t understand about that?_-Bill Gates (Although in bed with the GUV.) employs between 79,000 to 90,000 people in Microsoft alone!_-How about Kellogs?_How about Johnson & Johnson?_-Man o man you guys ite the hands that feed. If ya the perks and ya wanna be like them, go do it!

          • bob wire

            Good Point Angel!

            Well you can believe your own pocket book and figure everyone has a money tree in their back yard but you or look at it with a greater overview.

            American big business can do without an American labor force better then American labor can do without big business!

            And why might that be you might ask? ~ because of “laws and tax codes” that pander too and grossly favor big business.

            So until there is more meaningful balanced offer via “laws and tax codes” that at the very least offers more consideration American citizens interest this power grab will continue until you might consider moving to the Republic of Mexico to get some relief!

            I know that they (big business)whine and cry! I know they tell us they are broke, well you can believe that if you want to Angel and defend the wealthy until the cows come home, ~ but I’m not buying it.

            I am a small business man and while it doesn’t make me all knowing or all wise. I do understand the effect government has on business.

            If we expect change in business we must change the way government pander to business, ~ offering them tax breaks without getting so much as a Howdy Doody or a promise has not worked in the past and will not work in the future.

            I’m ready to go back to draft animals if it necessary.

            We have been sold down the river and there is no two way about it.

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            bob__ sorry, these guys took all the risks, whether born into it or started from scratch, they’ve earned the right to they’re spoils. These big guns pay taxes, health care benefits, Liability insurance is through the roof, pander to Unions when they infiltrate, when Unions get involved the price of everything goes up. As I’ve said many times before, you can highly tax the big guns for a while, but when they’ve had enough, they move offshore or shut down to break the Unions and get away from tax and regulation. I worked for a Union Company, Ladies Garment Workers Union, the owner got tired of dealing with the Unions, he sold the building, and moved lock, stock, and barrel down south. 21 industry and manufacturing companies closed in the last 35 years in our area alone. 1st reason_ Union Unreasonable demands! 2nd Reason_ Too much Tax, Regulation & EPA, 3rd, owner Deaths, replaced with people with poor management skills or none at all. I was in a Union, my Husband was in the UAW & a Union Rep, my Dad 34 years in a Union Shop, Please, Don’t tell me how Unions operate, I know how its done!!!!

          • bob wire

            “sorry, these guys took all the risks, whether born into it or started from scratch, they’ve earned the right to they’re spoils. ”

            Hmm? ~ Well Angel, you and I will just have to disagree as I feel you generosity deserves greater reward.

            Do you feel that Enron employees did not take any risk or accept losses?

            Do you think that people that engage in profit sharing don’t take risk?

            Do you think the men that work for me don’t take risk? Went they come to work everyday, scale buildings , scaffolding and ladders ricking life and limb for a pay check? They invest money in education, tools, trucks, instruments with “high hopes” they might capitalize on their investments. ~

            Labor invest! At least they better, I do know of labor that doesn’t and I find them to be close to worthless most of the time, with few exceptions. Invest more ! make more or lose more! It’s not a guarantee it’s not a sure thing.

            We prepare for tomorrows success today! Just because a wealthy man invest more only mean he should receive a lion share! We understand that!

            But that doesn’t mean labor has no value or should play the part of a butt boy.

            I’m no interest in the wealth’s “Benevolence” ~ I don’t want Benevolence! Maybe you can live with that, but I’m not.

            I want an understanding, a days work for a days pay. I was a equitable agreement!

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            bob wire, your exactly right, a days work for a days wage is ALL any employer is required to do, anything more is a gift, remember that!

          • Vigilant

            bob wire:

            “And why might that be you might ask? ~ because of “laws and tax codes” that pander too and grossly favor big business.”

            http://blog.heritage.org/2010/05/05/high-corporate-income-tax-rate-driving-jobs-overseas/

            “The United States has the second highest corporate tax rate of any of the 30 countries in the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) – a collection of the most economically developed countries in the world. The federal rate is 35 percent. Add on the average state corporate income tax and United States businesses pay a top rate over 39 percent. This is just below Japan which has a rate slightly over 39.5 percent.

            The average corporate income tax rate in the OECD is about 25 percent. The United States’ rate is almost 15 percentage points higher. Of the 30 countries in the OECD, 27 of them have cut their corporate income tax rates since 2000. By standing still, the United States has fallen behind.”

            bob, a 39.5% tax rate does not pander to business, unless you’re a socialist who believes 39.5% is not enough taxation.

          • bob wire

            ” bob, a 39.5% tax rate does not pander to business, unless you’re a socialist who believes 39.5% is not enough taxation.”

            No! Sir, We are in agreement 39.5 is a good 7 to 10 points too high.

            But I fear, while this is the law, it’s not the rule, it’s my belief that many pay far less aided by the complex nature of the tax structure presently in use.

            I could be wrong but I kind of doubt it. The IRS rarely shakes down the larger business concerns without a host of probable cause. They are government employees, they want to look good, make their boss look good and keep those 1st and 15th checks coming. The last thing they want to do is embarrass their boss and go head to head with a team of cooperate attorneys and a staff of CPA’s, harassing campaign contributors for weeks and come up with a hand full of parking tickets.

            But I’ll agree with you Sir, 39.5 is a little steep, especially if they are really paying it.

  • http://com i41

    ValDM, eddee you must remember is a rez runner off the reservation, which makes hin a generational ward of the government. Close kin of the blinged up lads who teach ckickens how to walk and are true generational welafare wards of the government. jopa and eddeee both are affermative action supporters and any thing government is the greatest, and are soros socialists to the core. Democrats have always embraced more government gontrol over ever facet of their and everyone’s lives. To lazy to operate in the real world and need a aunty or mamee telling them where to go or what to do. Any pukes that follows and beleives in the marxist muslim moron in Cheif, definitely do not have a grasp of reality, unless the country is Russia, China, Venuzala, N Korea, or some other crap dicator run country.

    • 45caliber

      They are simply trying to avoid the worst job in the world – thinking for themselves.

    • JeffH

      i41, very good! I agree…

  • Dale on the left coast

    And to quote Obummer “WE WON” . . . next time they elect the dimmicraps they can get another “Sweetheart Deal” from their bought and paid for representatives.

  • Chas

    Voice of Reason has it right. Public employees do not need a union. Our benevolent government will see that all are taken care of. In fact, their current benefits surpass that of the private sector.

    • 45caliber

      Of course they do. After all, when you handle the purse strings, there is no reason to take less than anyone else does, is there?

  • Patriot

    Somebody, please answer this basic question; why are unions needed in the Public Sector? Who are we trying to protect these people from? Maybe now is the time that we need to protect these good people from their union (most union workers are very hard workers and do not agree with the unions that they have to be part of), many of these folks are screaming for help to avoid the iron fist of the union bosses and most see no way out! We need to help these people, that is what elections are all about in your local communities, if the union is so good give the workers a choice to pay their hard earned money to them or not! The silent majority do not speakout or demonstrate since they are afraid of the ramifications. How do I know? I have lived in Chicago all my life and many people are still afraid to vote a different way (they actually know how they voted, how does anyone explain that), can you imagine?

  • http://www.appliedgeotech.com Carl

    Why is there a need for unionized government employees……in reality they work for you and me [private sector]. So if they strike for more wages and benefits, that means private sector annies up more to the pot because they demand more..where do you think that money comes from….it comes from you and me…..the government is not a one big self substaining enity…we the working private sector supports it all.
    So, if we don’t pay more, they strike…firefighters, school teachers, policemen….until they get what they want……..
    Is that not a form of holding the public hostage…….give me what I want or suffer….we see similar acts every night on the 10:00 PM news….

    • mark

      Why? Because every American Worker has the right to quit their job and to unionize. In a free enterprise system the worker has the right to Unionize and the employer has the right to lock-out and not to accept the Union demands. It is called Free enterprise, not one-way enterprise

      • Aix Sponsa

        Lock out. mmmmm? When the union demands to bankrupt the employer, who should be the victor?

        • marvin

          Aix Sponsa
          well posted no one should have the right to bankrup you over wanting more then you can give, can you say federal goverment 14,5 trillion dollars,but i forgot we got to spend spend spend to get out of dept,i say broke broke broke,stop stop stop from jan 2006 8.4 trillion now 14.5 trillion in jan 2000 5 .5 trillion in jan 2006 8.4 trillion

      • Mick

        mark says:
        February 24, 2011 at 10:58 am
        Why? Because every American Worker has the right to quit their job and to unionize. In a free enterprise system the worker has the right to Unionize and the employer has the right to lock-out and not to accept the Union demands. It is called Free enterprise, not one-way enterprise
        &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
        Oh really mark !!!!!
        If the employer do not accept their demands the bastards strike and if the employer hired other people the new workers are called scabs and put their own security in peopardy and the employers face numerous law suits, it look as it is a one way street and it has to stop…..

        • Lewis Munn

          Yes. Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. And if there are damages, the Union should have to pay in full, or at least be subject to a lawsuit and ante up when convicted.

      • marvin

        mark
        you mean like they the union worker did in new york city refused to remove the snow and people died or the dem rep telling union members sometimes you got to get a little bloody or go hide to stop voting,you have the right to engage tell you get to my rights to refuse to let you impede my rights,your rights end where my rights begin

        • Lewis Munn

          That is a foreign concept to today’s unions, and a lesson they need to learn, the hard way if need be.

          Unions get upset about union breaking laws, they need to be aware of their actions as a union that hurt other people.

      • 45caliber

        It isn’t Free Enterprise when public officials are working with the unions. It is union officials working for themselves.

      • 45caliber

        mark:

        In the South, if you wish to quit your job and then join a union, feel free. And if you wish to quit your job and NOT join a union, you can. It’s called the “right to work” law. You can work without being forced to join a union. But in the North you can’t work unless you pay someone for the privilege – and he isn’t even the one paying you! Now why should I be forced to pay someone for the privilege of being able to work to pay my bills? Particularly when he doesn’t do anything for me except support some politician I believe should be retired a long time ago?

        • Vigilant

          45caliber,

          You’re right, and it’s called “extortion” by sane people.

      • Patriot

        We are discussing Public Employee Unions, the question still stands!

        • Lewis Munn

          Public Employee unions should be just as liable as other unions, and public officials should hold them just as guilty.

          WHO is going to make up classes missed by school kids? Or do we accept ignorant kids as a acceptable cost for the argument?

          Who cares? Well, the kids may care later. The cost to the public will be much greater in the long run…but maybe by then the unions and theer sympathizers will have all they want fiscally and who cares about kids who are not educated????

  • marvin

    google Newsmax.com has a pole on gov walker take the pole its free see where most voter stand on unions and state rights

    • Cawmun Cents

      Isnt Google run by the Red Chinese?

      • Teresa

        YES, google is under numerous investigations by oversight committee w/their ties to the Obama Administration. see below

        http://www.newsmax.com/Headline/ConsumerGroupChargesGooglesCloseTiesWithObamaAdministrationReapRewards/2011/01/24/id/383741?s=al&promo_code=B87B-1

        • http://! Angel Wannabe

          Teresa, the one guy, a supposed excutive from Google apparently helped spear head the up rise in egypt.

          • Teresa

            yes…there is a website out called yippy.com, ck. it out….

          • Teresa

            Angel, ck out some of my post. Interesting to learn the truth as to why Obama has been silent on the Lybia. Also interesting to learn the truth behind Assange. Several articles you will enjoy…everything going on around us is only to distract us. Same with Obamas decision to come out NOW about wanting to give his opinion on everyone having choice to be able to marry….although morally wrong, who cares! Do we not have more dire things to concern ourselves with at the moment? The CIA agent that was captured in Pakistan….READ THAT STORY! The war is coming, and I told you before Russia IS now becoming the new super power w/China backing them!

    • JIBBS

      I never use google, they work for labamba.

  • barbm

    i, too, have a few friends and family members that are dems. i do try to be patient and sweet. :) what irks me most is my sons are dems. if they weren’t the spitting image of their father, i’d demand a dna test!! sure is interesting when we’re all together though.

    • marvin

      barbm
      my dad was a dem and one off my brothers as for dna test moms baby daddys maby,i have one girl and two boys my girl is oldest my two oldest will do any thing for me and my youngest trys his best to drive me nuts it would be a short trip for me,but the dif is not dem or rep it is liberal and conseritive,just a little humor on the dna remark barbm

    • WayneT

      This just goes to show you Barbm that people do not have any control over their kids makeup. Maybe it was the liberal schools, or the people they hung out with that caused this. We have a very LIberal Society today. Maybe that is a big factor in how the youngsters of today thinks. I had people in my own family that voted for Nobama. They certainly know how I feel abut him, but I cold not change their liberal minds. Hopefully, some day they will open their eyes and see that what I told them was right.

    • 45caliber

      At least my kids grew up to be conservatives. But I also made it plain to them as they grew up why I wasn’t a liberal. They were smart enough to understand. But I do have liberal relatives. One niece won’t take a job unless it is in some group like CARE. I feel for you.

      • bob wire

        So you indoctrinated them with GOP skills?

        but you know the GOP is not conservative with tax payer money don’t you?

        They maybe conservative with their own, but I kind of doubt it.

        Fruit don’t fall far from the tree.

        • Vigilant

          bob, who mentioned the GOP?

          He said “conservative,” not “Republican,” so please don’t confuse the two.

          Attempts to conflate conservative with republican are dead wrong, as we have seen with GWB, who was far from being a conservative. Many of the posters on this site have explained the difference, so why the mislabeling?

  • Mick

    barbm says:
    February 24, 2011 at 11:17 am
    i, too, have a few friends and family members that are dems. i do try to be patient and sweet. what irks me most is my sons are dems. if they weren’t the spitting image of their father, i’d demand a dna test!! sure is interesting when we’re all together though.
    ********************************
    barbm****************** You can love them, you can put with them but unfortunately the way things it will come a time when someone will have to make the tough choice of separating the love and the right to survive, we’re heading for disaster……..

    • barbm

      they’re both dems, but they’re also realists. we’re all armed to the teeth, have an escape route planned to my sister’s farm, have all our food, water, medical supplies, blankets, etc. loaded and ready to go. together we stand – against the world if need be.

  • Tom

    If the D’s want to ignore their responsibilities then they can resign and get someone who will at least debate the problems. I say fire any government elected official that will not do the job they were voted to do. I believe they should do their job and not run away like little children who got their feeling hurt. No wander this country has problems.

    • 45caliber

      Now you know how the Texans felt a few years ago when the Dems did the same thing. All they did was stall things and cost the government (us taxpayers) more money. As soon as they did come back, the vote passed.

      • bob wire

        yea and this redistricting was the brain child of the same man that is behind this power play would be my guess.

        The last time ,it got a unqualified GOP candidate all the way to serve 8 years in the White House.

        That’s when I realized, America had lost it’s way and how sneaky Republicans can be. ~

        NOW, democrats are just as sneaky ! Yea ! i guess.

  • Always Right

    Skrew “reasonable debate”. Reasonable debate with leftists is pointless and like “bipartisanship” it is got us to where we are today. There’s no middle ground between good and evil. Christ told us that. Demoncraps/socialists/communists/Marxist-Leninists/”progressives”/”moderates”/eye-rolling loonies (they aren’t even hyonest about what they CALL themselves) are evil, either by intent or stupidity (“ignorance” is not an excuse if the information is out there, as it is, and the refuse to seek and/or acknowledge same) …PERIOD!!! That doesn’t mean that we’re all good but for the most part, we’re certainly motivated by higher ethics than those self-serving, delusional, snide, irrational bastards on the left. The left is in it for a “what’s in it for me/what makes ME feel good about myself?” reason, regardless of their professed altruism. The right is largely in for a “what’s good for our liberties and our nation” reasons.

  • American Citizen

    Republicans are doing what they were voted in to do while Democrats are running like dogs with their tails between their legs. With all the government regulations and civil service laws now in place, unions are basically obsolete. Those Democrats who have run from having to vote should get back to work and do the jobs they were elected to do. Democrats get so much money from the unions, they are owned by them. If I were a union member, I would be furious at how the unions use my dues. Every state should be a “right to work” state.

    • bob wire

      Well, I’ll agree with every state should be a right too work state! There is no need for overkill or have a direct influence in all “labor” issues and employers. It’s not required or necessary. Indirect influence often works much better. Free men should be able to feel freedom follow their dreams and seek their just rewards( whatever that might consist of)

      but the rest of your views, I’m not so sure about! before it over you might wish the democrats were run away. Maybe you should turn around and look at whats coming out of your blind side.

  • Jane

    Go Dems I support them all the way. AmericanCitizen didn’t remember the chicken s**** Repubs did the same thing when they were in the minoraty. Why do you replubricons keep shooting yourselves in the foot. The Unions are very needed and have kept the wolves (corporations) from the door on many occations. Look back to Hitler. No one bothered to stop him when he was targeting other groups. And when he got to your group no one was there to help. The party of no doesn’t care about anything but the bottom line. Wake up you fools. We all live in this country together. Progressive liberal Democrat and proud of it. At least we have a heart and soul. Republican/conservatives/teapartiers have proved they don’t.

    • Cawmun Cents

      We are the world…we are the children…we are the ones that make a brighter day so lets start giving…..come on Jane you know the words…sing along!

      • Cawmun Cents

        Ah yes…proud of the need to control others….a worthy goal I must add.Yes…the world isnt screwed up enough,now we need progressives,and congressives to step up and add their fecal tissue to the pile.You pld’s are precious,talk about little man syndrome…you are killing me…no seriously you are trying to kill me.That is why you will never (succeed)…keep on suckin’and maybe you will eventually.You are doing a great job so far.

        • bob wire

          Well,? ~ Dominion SIR ! Government and the Church has always be about Dominion, regardless the name of the train robber.

          To think you seem to be unaware of that while enjoy broadcasting political commentary, doesn’t say a lot about your commentary.

        • Cawmun Cents

          Dont tell me that you are going to start singing rousing choruses of “We Are The World” bob wire.Gee I seem to remember a flashback to the nineties…Barb Wire the Pam Anderson flick….hmmm…yeah political discourse is your forte is it?Yeah I have nothing to say to folks that have nothing to reason with….hence the “we are the world” posts.There seems to be a politically correct charge in the air around here.Everyone dancing about,feeling out the opponent.Would you like to take the gloves off there bobby?Why dont we get real nasty and burn this thread up like a two dollar missile?What say you?

          • bob wire

            Excuse me? ~ two dollar rockets? Pamella Anderson?

            It’s all about dominion and who’s to have it Sir.

            That all it’s ever been about and ever will be about with politics.

            Who’s your Daddy? a crass explanation but most fitting.

            There are many train robbers and many trains. I don’t really give damn what they call themselves, they take our money and demand us to obey.

            It seems you feel one is more benevolent then the other in that they didn’t take your boots and put you afoot!

    • 45caliber

      Jane:
      The Repubs ran when they were in minority? I’ve not heard that before. Where did they do it? The only time I’ve heard of it happening before was here in Texas when the Dems left to keep from voting on something.

      • http://www.personalliberty.com Akillion

        No, they didn’t run..however there were A RECORD NUMBER OF FILIBUSTERS in the previous session. To hell with a majority. If you want something passed, you need a “super-majority”!

    • 45caliber

      Ah … are you comparing the unions to Hitler?

      • bob wire

        For a dead man, Hitler sure gets around doesn’t he?

        • Jana

          duh bob,
          His ideologies still live, just the same as Alynski’s as well as Marxism and Mao.

    • http://! Angel Wannabe

      Geez, Jane and cawmam sense must be filling in for, Kinectic and some of the other Libs that aren’t here. Same shyte, different sandbox!

  • Anti Government

    Reasonable debate?? Did anyone hear the FULL conversation between Governor Walker and who he thought was David Koch? It is an eye opener for all of us. The violence that everyone seems to believe to be inevitable was contemplated by this governor. He thought about using violence against his own people!! Walkers conversation shows multiple ethic violations. But I suppose that the means justify the ends. In this bill there is also provisions to sell Wisconsin power and heating plants on a no bid contract provision. His 1st move when taking power was to cancel a bio-fuel heating plant because it was too expensive (the state had already spent $200 million and would cost another $200 million to complete). He decided that it should be a natural gas heating plant. We now know that the gas pipe line that serves Madison is owned by….the Koch brothers! Anybody think there may be a problem here?? This governor is planning on giving away our (Wisconsin) assets!

    We have a governor that is planning criminal activities. This governor thought about using force against me and my family who have attended these “peaceful protests”. His comments to bring in trouble makers violates his oath to “protect the people of Wisconsin”. He is a thug! His days are now numbered. He may be able to be removed due to his comments make on tape. Keep watching, we are seeing the the crowds increase in size. The support for the workers in light of the governor’s comments is widening.

    The governor is setting up the 2012 elections for Democratic victories. The governor is now using the state troopers illegally to intervene in labor disputes by having these police go to the houses of the Senate legislatures houses.

    • JeffH

      Anti Government, I just listened to the full 20 minute reorded conversation between Walker and the prank caller and there ain’t nothin in it except a hope and a dream by the progressive left. It was quite boring to be blunt about it.
      Care to listen, here’s the link:
      http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/sns-viral-video-phony-call-to-wisconsin-governor,0,2840202.htmlstory
      The progressives think this is a big deal? Not even close. The prankster did his best to put Walker on a tightrope and failed. Walker did nothing wrong, nothing. He didn’t react to the bait that was tossed at him other than a basic conversation. The Governor sounded well prepared and quite grounded. As for “partying in California”, again, just sensationalism by the left.

      • bob wire

        I think that you are being somewhat naive Jeff. ~

        It hurt Walker more then you wish to believe. By the time, it’s magnified, amplified and broadcast over and over again, Nixon would blush and hide his face.

        The crowds are only growing across the whole nation in support of these working Americans. I love this guy Walker, he is just what we needed to highlight this class war that is being waged on American Citizens for the last 30 years.

        While It’s still a ball game and that both sides feel that they “could” win makes it exciting.

        I willing to say this is not going as well for the Tea Party movement as many would hope for.

        Of course I know you will see a “win” in any defeat. But come the Generals, this is going to end up hurting your movement.

        That GM is showing profits for the first time since 2004 is a sign the GOP/Tea argument is falling apart.

        Of course there is still time for the GOP see that the bottom falls out before 2012. They working hard to kill anything that show signs of growth.

        Nite! All, say your prayers.

        • JeffH

          bob, I’m anything but naïve. I lstened intently and the only thing to make it a big deal is the desperate Obama media and the socialist unions like the AFL/CI, SEIU and the NEA that are fronting and ebel rousing the heart of the protests. It all depends on how the general population responds to the propogated half truths coming from the sensationalists promotion.

      • http://www.personalliberty.com Akillion

        JeffH, u must’ve muted the part out where the fake Koch bros spoke of “planting troublemakers”, to which the Governor replied, “We thought about that, the only problem……”. There were teachers, policemen, firefighters, students-fellow Wisconsin-ites. WHy would he even consider such a thing?!?

        • JeffH

          Akillion

          No it wasn’t muted. Tell it all, not just what you want someone to believe. Finish the comment…as this hack Murphy kept trying to bait Walker…

          Murphy: Right, right. We’ll back you any way we can. But what we were thinking about the crowd was, uh, was planting some troublemakers.

          Walker: You know, well, the only problem with that — because we thought about that. The problem with — my only gut reaction to that would be, right now the lawmakers I’ve talked to have just completely had it with them.

          Transcript of prank call to Walker
          http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/116751499.html?viewAll=1

          • get right

            JeffH, you obviously failed to comprehend the statement, “We thought about that”, meaning they discussed and thought about putting troublemakers in the crowd. Even thinking much less discussing that option makes you a thug and he should be removed from office immediately!!! Take that right wing authoritian filter off your ears and eyes.

          • JeffH

            get right, are you so spinless, like the Wisconsin Democrats, that you have to hide…behind another name? I’ll stand behind what I said and you and your lefty buddies can make as much hay as you want out of it. Doesn’t change a thing does it?

          • Jana

            get right,

            YOU obviously failed to comprehend. You are accusing them of THINKING about using the same tactics that the leftists/Communists used, but the FACT is they didn’t use those tactics. They would have been remiss if they hadn’t laid out all of their options and of course that would have been an option. However, it was an option that they CHOSE NOT to use.

          • JeffH

            Jana, well said. If we believed every twist they try to sell, Palin would have been hung by now, Beck and Limbaugh would have been put in front of a firing squad and Bush and Reagan would have been assas…ted…know what I mean?

            They’ll never stop trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill…

          • JeffH

            get right, You’re the same type that accuses Chip Woods of advocating violence with his signature “keep some powder dry” or “lock-n-load”. ROFLMAO!

          • bob wire

            Come on Jeff, stick to the issues and refrain from idle threats and name calling. If you are looking for support in anything Jana might throw, you’ve been treed, like a cat stuck at the top of a screen door and can’t figure out a way down.

            I know you got a good argument in you and I’d like to hear it, maybe some of your more talented support buddies can help you find a way down.

          • JeffH

            bob, there are times when even you should test your breath and this just might be one of them…some people like to make thing personal and others should mind their own business. In other words, take a hint this time and mind your own business. This little spat goes back a couple years and only the name has changed.

  • JeffH

    Many of the unions have become nothing more than a progressive political tool(SEIU)losing sight(or maybe not on)on why they were there in the first place. The SEIU, the union organizing the protests across the country, the union sharing Michelle’s bed with the POTUS, was the biggest outside spender of the 2010 elections. They have a vested interest because they literally bought elections in cities and states across the nation.

    • http://www.personalliberty.com Akillion

      Uhh, ehh NOT TRUE Jeff! 7 out of the Top 10 campaign contributors, contributed to the GOP. Check out what Fox News anchorman Shep Smith said and watch how Juan Williams squirmed and looked like a deer in headlights and stated, “You’ve just made alotta people angry by telling the truth.” Fact check homey, us citizens have to seek the truth.

      • JeffH

        Not true? What are you smoking?

        The American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees (AFSCME) was the biggest spender of the Big Labor election players. Not only were they the biggest spender amongst labor unions, they were the biggest spenders on either side of the aisle spending nearly $88 million, according to a recent Wall Street Journal (WSJ) article.

        Coming in second place in the “Big Money” race amongst Big Labor was the Service Employees International Union (SEIU). The SEIU has spent nearly $44 million in this cycle.
        Currently, the SEIU is embroiled in scandal around the nation.

        As Americans for Limited Government’s Director of Research Don Todd put the situation with the SEIU, “The SEIU is now creating front groups that are perpetrating the same type of voter fraud that we saw with ACORN in the 2008 election cycle. The SEIU has proven it is more interested in politics than representing their members through collective bargaining.”

        The NEA(National Education Association)was third, right behind the SEIU with $44 million spent in the 2010 election cycle.

        Groups like the SEIU and AFSCME are the lifeblood for the Democrats this year. While Big Labor gambles away the money of the people that they represent on political campaigns, their own pension programs are underfunded. In the public sector pension system, there is over $1 trillion in unfunded liabilities. Is Big Labor really looking out for their members or are they acting like a political party via massive political campaign donations? Unfortunately, the members of these unions whose money was wasted away are the real losers no matter what happened on Election Day.
        Read more at NetRightDaily.com: http://netrightdaily.com/2010/11/the-left-wing-election-machine-in-2010-afscme-and-the-seiu/#ixzz1ExBbaAbb

      • get right

        Akillion, Jeff doesn’t deal in facts, he is against government help, unless it affects his disability payments he receives from ….you guessed it– the Federal Government!!!! Which means all those government workers who pay taxes, actually pay for Jeff to receive those monthly payments.

        • JeffH

          get right, you have to hide behind a phony name? FYI, I don’t recieve and never have recieved “disability” payments from the government or anyone else. You lefties love to make things up…keep ‘em coming…it fits ya!

          • get right

            Liar!!

          • Jana

            get right,
            You are the one who lacks credibility.
            What are you a troublemaker?

          • JeffH

            get right, liar? Hah! All of a sudden you know my lifes history…you don’t even have the cahones to post under your “original” alias and you have the nerve to call be a liar? You trolls just like to put a spin on anything and everything you can. You can’t deal in the facts because facts don’t suit your needs. Bad part about it is, your memories are piss poor.

            Take two tablets of “Focus Factor” every 4 hours and see me when you get your “facts” straight!

          • bob wire

            Well Jeff, for the record, I wouldn’t think any less of you if you did. That’s what it’s for, at sometime you or family members paid into a system. It’s yours.

            I’ve not yet done so and hold off as long as possible, ~ but the day is coming for all of us ~ if we are lucky.

            But with me, I should have been long gone and every new days a present. I look at life that way. SSDD (same $hit different day)with a dash of inspiration to keep it interest enough to stick around.

          • JeffH

            bobby, I really don’t give a rats ass what you think or say anyway…it’s mostly hot air. I’m starting to get the impression you’re developing the E47D syndrome…jealousy!

  • http://BingandMSN Joanne

    I have read nearly all of the comments and my reply is this:
    When all the people of this great nation, the United States of America, realize that we humans are betrayers to the truly great
    Lord of all Lords, King of all Kings, Jesus Christ. The one and
    only one that can and will bring our nation, the world to peace. Prayer to God for guidance, forgiveness, strength and deliverance for the help that is needed to undo all that we ourselves have done to
    ourselves. The majority has turned its back on good values. Generations back would weep and tear their hair to see what we have done. How will the generations to come be proud of what has happened,
    or will they not care, because, really did we? Our forefathers worked
    desparetly to make this land safe for us. I ask you are we going to
    let it go down the tubes because we don’t stand up and keep it safe
    for those who follow. Will there be any to follow!!! I hope so and
    with gusto and vigor, with their heads held high because they are a
    great and powerfully wonderful America. I have grandchildren and I
    pray for their future and that they will turn to God for guidance.
    To me the only way for us to come to sensible answers is definately
    through kneeling to our true Master. I am not blind, I know there are
    many kinds of faiths, but Jesus is mine. Another master (with a small
    m) is Satan. Don’t let him steal our lives. I am sure I am in line for
    a lot of bruises, but so was Jesus. He is who I will stand up for.
    Comments welcome. I Love you all.

    • http://! Angel Wannabe

      Joanne, I hear ya, Jesus was crucified for us! Anyone that is called to follow him, is to take up they’re own cross and follow no matter wher it may lead!
      God Bless!

      • bob wire

        I’ve heard that all my life.

        JC was crucified became the clergy in power was resentful of his popularity, really wasn’t digging on his message or his claim that he “was” the foretold incarnated in the flesh. They rejected his claim and considered him a charlatan.

        So the priests over the church of Jerusalem gave him up to the governor that represented Rome rule as he was being hail as King of the Jews which didn’t set too well with the current administration.

        Just a little politics and old fashion word play on the part of the righteous and keepers of the faith.

        That this happen for you or me is a stretch and only maybe possible if you consider yourself a student and servant of Christ today. If that the case, I suppose such a claim could be made.

        That it is told that JC knew forehand of his fate and continue down his chosen path in fearless fashion, places this event almost beyond the physical plane and fosters a lot of ambiguity.

        Students say Jesus was the foretold. I tend to agree, seeing no other explanation that makes any sense.

        I do believe we have been gifted with several such human/spirits, there is room for such a belief, not to suggest they all equal.

        • Jana

          bob wire,

          Circles, you talk in circles. As it is said, if you stand for nothing you fall for anything. From your own words it appears that you don’t seem to know where you stand.

          • bob wire

            Great observation Jana , Life is a big circle and I don’t think you are ready for what I believe, so don’t pretend that you know.

            Life is the means to it own end.

          • Jana

            bob w,
            Its way past your bed time. Go to bed and sleep it off!

  • chuckb

    lets face it folks, this union movement in this country is nothing more than the trojan horse of communism, this is exactly what destroyed russia. we have a white house that involves itself into the states politics and can’t operate it’s own jurisdiction.

    if you want to do a little research, go back to when the communist party capitulated in russia, check out how the party members were living compared to the average citizen, state employees, teachers all lived a far better life and lived in their own zoned areas. the russian’s couldn’t afford it could they.

    the democratic party represents the communist party and you can see by their action and how they operate. the media is their tool, education is their training ground and the white house is their accomplishment. they now own it.

    • http://! Angel Wannabe

      Well said, sadly chuckb.

      • http://www.personalliberty.com Akillion

        ChuckB-what are you smoking and can I Hit Dat? Teachers don’t go into that profession to get rich. Not sure of Policemen are “loaded” like the Koch Brothers…or your fav musician, so STOP IT! No collective bargaining sounds more “dictator-like” to me. If I have to “pick my poison” and choose between a “gov’t state” and “corporate state”…All Hail King Obama!!! LOL!

        On a serious note:
        If you want o get to the root of the problem, follow the money: Our “right-leaning” supreme court just ruled in favor of campaign financing and allowing it to be done without disclosure. Gov. Walker exposed himself with that convo he head to that fake Koch bros.

  • http://???inothaveone!! JOHN COLLIE, JR.

    why do we have elections??/ we are a free republic instead of a mob or dictatorship or anything in between. how can this beautiful form of free representative government last hwen we have arbitrary truancy like that in wisconsin and other states. such tricky parliamentary gimmicks may shake the very core foundation of our nation. ihave another parliamentary proceedure to recommend: IMPEACHMENT!!!!!!please pass on this thought thank you G B A , JCJR

  • http://att.net HollywoodBDA

    Joanne, you are correct, however, we are the minority. Yes, we can pass the Word on to others, but if they don’t accept it… we tried. As to the unions, I was in the New York Seamans Union during the mid-fifties. All I can say is I had my stomach full of Union Management. UUUGggggghhhh!!!!

    • bob wire

      Right! I’ve had some sour experiences as well, but ~ it was due to unions that you have a 40hour work week, overtime pay, vacations, sick days, holidays and unemployment insurance.

      You enjoy these things without even being a member of any union or paying any dues.

      Do you think you would enjoy such things via the benevolence of employers? Maybe? ~ But I really doubt it.

      • http://! Angel Wannabe

        bob, ya’d better do some fact checking, my brother worked for a Non Union shop from the time he was 18 til he died at 57. They had paid sick days, holidays, paid vacations, Medical benefits, all the same perks as a Union shop. As a matter of fact, our son works in Commerial/residential Construction, his shop is non Union as well and enjoys the same from his employer.

        • bob wire

          Sure of course Angel, ~ the unions created a basic “standard” ~ that ‘s been adopted and excepted.

          That you seem to fail to see, accept, or believe this as being so ~

          tells me I’m wasting my time with any father support or explanation.

          As you wish to ignore the competitive spirit and nature of the labor/employer market place and the dynamic it offers all employers.

  • http://excel.net William Knaack

    I live in Wisconsin, You must remember, Wisconsin is and was a liberal state.Our schools are not teaching history. They arn’t teaching what made this country the envy of the rest of the world.I also remember what Nikta Kruchiv said at the U.N. He said that the U.S.S.R would bury us with out firing a shot ! Think about this statment, Our ” SCRULES” have become a launching pad for the FAR LEFT, (socialists)Our kids are faced with the drug peddlers every day. When is America going to wake up ?……Or is it ? Lock and load my friends !

    • bob wire

      maybe you should consider relocating if it’s that awful there!

      Go Cheese Heads! A ball team owned by the collective! How unholy!

      Here in Texas only a few own ball clubs while we citizens are taxed until we are bloody to pay for their fine stadiums. They say it brings in Revenue and I suppose it does but for whom? I don’t own a restaurant or a motel or a tee shirt shop. I know one thing, every tax payer in the city of Arlington Texas is subjected to extremely high property tax burdens

      • American Citizen

        Yeh, they force us taxpayers to pay for those stadiums, while the multi-millionaire owners and players pay next to nothing. If the owners want a stadium, they should pay for it themselves, and if they can’t afford it, but those players salaries. We are forced to pay them whether we go to the games or not, as the price of anything advertised on there becomes more expensive.

  • http://www.personalliberty.com Akillion

    A true capitalist society can only exist through exploitation of labor and resources, and
    the remaining 99% are the ones that are exploited so the 1% can succeed. Listen to the
    current debate over unions and labor costs: corporations are saying they can’t afford to
    operate unless they can exploit laborers (no bargaining rights, no benefits, low wages),
    they can’t afford to operate unless they get corporate welfare and tax breaks (exploiting
    our government and the tax payers), they can’t afford to operate unless they are free to
    exploit our natural resources (no regulations). Meanwhile there are record profits on Wall
    Street and the average CEO makes over 400% more than laborers.

    I just think it’s sad that corporations have convinced us that we should all be happy
    and we are just lucky to be exploited by them. Why do we fear our government but
    corporations are able to control us unchecked?

    SHOUT OUT TO THE WISCONSIN 14!!! STAND YOUR GROUND-THIS IS DEMOCRACY IN ACTION!!!!

    • JeffH

      Prologue Rules for Radicals
      By Saul Alinsky – 1971

      “The Revolutionary force today has two targets, moral as well as material. Its young protagonists are one moment reminiscent of the idealistic early Christians, yet they also urge violence and cry, ‘Burn the system down!’ They have no illusions about the system, but plenty of illusions about the way to change our world. It is to this point that I have written this book.”

      The Purpose
      In this book we are concerned with how to create mass organizations to seize power and give it to the people; to realize the democratic dream of equality, justice, peace…. “Better to die on your feet than to live on your knees.’ This means revolution.”

      “Radicals must be resilient, adaptable to shifting political circumstances, and sensitive enough to the process of action and reaction to avoid being trapped by their own tactics and forced to travel a road not of their choosing.”

      “A Marxist begins with his prime truth that all evils are caused by the exploitation of the proletariat by the capitalists. From this he logically proceeds to the revolution to end capitalism, then into the third stage of reorganization into a new social order of the dictatorship of the proletariat, and finally the last stage — the political paradise of communism.”

      “An organizer working in and for an open society is in an ideological dilemma to begin with, he does not have a fixed truth — truth to him is relative and changing; everything to him is relative and changing…. To the extent that he is free from the shackles of dogma, he can respond to the realities of the widely different situations….”

      • Denniso

        Give me a break! I have never known a liberal who even read the book. The rightwing seems fascinated by a man and his book that most liberals are clueless about…funny.

        • JeffH

          Lock-N-Load and Keep some powder dry, gotta be ready for you commie basterds…

        • bob wire

          Well, I say one thing Denniso, I never had a reason to spend time on such a book! Sound like a book that might explain why a fart stinks.

  • Marty S.

    The people of Wisconsin through their Governor need to fire those involved in these “protests” plain and simple. Once the budget shortfalls have been addressed then homeschooling should be promoted especially in this economy where there are many households with a stay at home parent. Within a short time the state may actually be out of the red. So what if the Governor was “busting the unions”. Government-Union….. what an oxymoron that is!

  • JeffH

    No it wasn’t muted. Tell it all, not just what you want someone to believe. Finish the comment…as this hack Murphy kept trying to bait Walker…

    Murphy: Right, right. We’ll back you any way we can. But what we were thinking about the crowd was, uh, was planting some troublemakers.

    Walker: You know, well, the only problem with that — because we thought about that. The problem with — my only gut reaction to that would be, right now the lawmakers I’ve talked to have just completely had it with them.

    Transcript of prank call to Walker
    http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/116751499.html?viewAll=1

    • get right

      Jeff, repeat it again,,,,,”we thought about it”. Thug in charge!!!

      • JeffH

        Hey ya phony, doin’ will get you tossed in jail and thinkin’ is just that, thinkin’. Two entirely different animals unless you’re a liberal communist hack like your communist union thugs that own the Marxist in chief!

        • Jana

          JeffH,
          You are so right. The leftists and Communists act on what they think abOut, but it is human nature to “think about” how to fight fire with fire. The difference is, WALKER DIDN’T!

          • JeffH

            Jana…nuff said!

  • Ridge Runner

    What is wrong with you frigging liberal demorat socialist communists rats getting of your lazy asses and going to work to feed and clothe your selfs. These people are just as sorry as the politicans thet they are electing to steal from the people that sre working and paying taxes to keep them up.The unions have served their purpose in curbing worker abuse but they have gone to far and they should never been allowed to organize the workers in the government.This was done on purpose to take over our gavernment and take our country down.We the people are going to wake up to the new world order if we the people don’t get our heads out of our asses.

  • JC

    One thing is for sure…until we realize and accept that we are being played like fiddles to remain in everlasting arguments about right vs. left, the Globalists will march silently on in the background until we wake up one day and find that the America who’s future we’re all arguing about…is gone.
    We all have common enemies…The Federal Reserve (and all its affiliates), The CFR, The UN (and all its affiliates)and we had better recognize it damned quick!

    • JeffH

      JC, you’re damned right!

    • JC

      Sadly Jeff, I never hear a lefty talking about the evils of the NWO. Is that because they are advocates or willfully ignorant of the fact?
      As always it will be up to patriots to carry their weight and keep America free…when the time comes. And as always, they will be hiding.

      • JeffH

        JC, what’s relly sad is these “progressives” are so stuck in the fight of “left vs right” that they can’t think much beyond. Thier failure to compute leave them in a “one front” battle whereas we have to carry the load of “multiple front” battles. Progress is being made on our part, locally. But the bigger question is whether our resolve can beat the globalists in control. I’m up for the fight as well as you and so many other good American, freedom loving patriots.

        Keep fighting the good fight fellow patriots. We know we have all the ammunition we need to win…”life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness”

  • Anti Government

    What about the sale of Wisconsin assets like power plants and heating plants through no bid sales? (which is in the budget repair bill) What about the governors attack on the University through canceling a bio-fuel heating plant that was paired with the the nations largest bio-fuel research facility in Madison? At a time when we need to find local based sources of energy and this governor does not have any vision but to further his and buddies wealth. What can we expect from a man that was kicked out of college for cheating? Again, the ends justify the means.

  • jopa

    This Walker guy will be walking behind a hot dog cart in Kenosha before he knows it The people of Wisconsin didn’t realize what an idiot some of these young republicans can be.Same thing with the newbies in DC, they don’t realize how much devastation shutting down the government and Walkers denying collective bargaining can have on America and it’s workers.Just the thought of attacking a unionized American worker makes me sick.Unions are what made America great and anyone attacking them are total scumbags.We have in America the greatest society of all times because of unions so I think we should do a little research and just see what their impact has been.I in the past have worked both in union and in a non-union shop the last 20 years.The non-union shop was okay but I started to notice a shift in managements actions where they may want to have the option to unionize.

    • JC

      Unions had their day. It’s over now that they have joined the self serving ranks of the corporate and political criminals in this country.
      They’re out to get all they can no matter who gets hurt and are psychopathic in nature.
      Made this country great…BULL!

      • Denniso

        Union workers are only out for money? Is that why teachers,police and firefighters make hundreds of thousands a year? I think you’re confused a little. The people who are out to make as much $$ as possible are the big corporate CEO’s and wall street types who imploded the economy.

        • JC

          I guess the only difference is the amount of money…
          Unions have lost their way and only want more power and control.
          No better than the CEO’s and crooked politicians.
          Sadly, union members have given up control of their own fate to a bunch of criminals, who are supposedly looking out for them.
          They’ve had their day, and now it’s over.

          • get right

            You are aware that your heros, O’reilly, Hannity and Limbaugh are union members aren’t you??? Why don’t you attack them?

          • Jana

            JC,

            Sadly it seems that the northern states have become so unionized it has become a way of life. That could be the reason why they are so liberal as they have become used to ‘being taken care of’. The only problem is, they have been blinded as to what is really going on. Evidently it is control the pocketbook, and control their minds.
            It seems they have been taken over and now they are being manipulated.

          • bob wire

            “Jana says:
            February 26, 2011 at 10:55 am

            JC,

            Sadly it seems that the northern states have become so unionized it has become a way of life. That could be the reason why they are so liberal as they have become used to ‘being taken care of’.”

            Well, if you mean” being taken care of as in “paid well” like in “more then me” and much, much less then Bankers, stock brokers, lawyers, doctors, CEO’s and upper and middle management, I suppose you are correct!

            We should all sleep better if more enjoyed my hardships? Hmm? Well I have always heard that misery loves company but it’s always been my understand that Christian teaching discouraged the practice and it’s considered wrong to covet another persons possessions.

            You are just so much fun Jana !

          • Jana

            bob w,
            Again, you make no sense. Sometimes you actually write like you have brains and common sense then at other times like now, you write like you are on something.

  • http://googlechrome.com Raymond Babcock

    i truly belive they only hope we have is the hand of god with god all things are possiabel i have been in some tight spots all i can figure is there is more for me to do before god takes me home america can once agin be that shining city on a hill

    • Denniso

      90% of Americans believe in God. You think the country has gone to hell…what’s the problem there? When is your good God going to help you make the country ‘great’ again? Apparently your God could care less about the state of the country,right? Or, is 90% believers not enough for God?

      • JC

        90% ?
        Where did you get that number?
        I don’t subscribe to organized religion, but most Christians I meet are kind and compassionate people.
        The opposite of left wing liberals that is…
        What’s wrong with the country you wonder?
        Too many self important socialist parasites with a sense of entitlement.
        They are a cancer on a free nation and must be eradicated.

        • get right

          Just curious, what specific religous demonation is the correct one for you radicals? What job is the correct one? If you ever worked for local, state or federal government, are you then branded for life? Can’t wait for all the Nurses to become union members, then you will have outlawed: teachers, fireman, police, county workers, state workers, federal workers, entertainment workers, steelworker, miners, electricians, plumbers. You guys need to print a list of all those who hold jobs that aren’t acceptable…oops looks like you already have outlawed almost everyone. So if you work for a bank (like the ones who ripped us off) then you are safe.

          • Jana

            get right,
            Thats right. When you can’t argue with facts RANT!

      • Lewis Munn

        How about when we start obeying the plain teachings on conduct and morality AS A NATION?

        Right now we prefer to break God’s written rules, and make fun of Christians and even fire them for their faith and refusing to do wrong!

        God is not going to reward long-term those who don’t do His Will!

        If you think God will bless when you curse back, you will have another think coming up later.

        God did not spare the Hebrews when they turned to evil, but did send reminders from time to time! And let them enjoy even captivity, until they were willing to turn back and live righteously.

        Coming soon, to a country very near you!

        • Jana

          Lewis Munn,

          A very good reminder. AMEN!

  • jopa

    The Koch brothers opened up a lobbying office in Madison Wisconsin and now they are putting hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of ads in the newspapers and on the local fox channels.They are trying to tell the people how greedy the teachers firemen and police are.Uh hum who are the billionaire liars saying are greedy.I think they have that backwards.But if you tell someone a lie enough it becomes fact.

    • Jana

      jopa,

      So of course the conservatives are not supposed to have anyone on their side that has money. That is their crime, they are conservatives.
      Before you go pulling out the speck in the Koch Brothers eye, go get the humongous log out of your own eyes. You know ACORN, ACLU, CAIR, and the Communist organizations that are supporting Obama and the people he has surrounding him who are communists ie: Van Jones, Vallerie Jarrett, Cecila Munoz, Marists Annette Jennings, what about anti American William Ayers who still thinks he didn’t do enough when he was bombing buildings?

    • JeffH

      jopa,just because you say don’t make it true.

  • jopa

    Jeffh:That is why I would hope people would actually do some research and never take my word or anyone elses and find out how truly honest I am compared to the rest.Thank you.

    • JeffH

      jopa, sometimes honesty is in the eyes of the beholder…being misinformed is not dishonest. The Koch’s are the anti-Soros to you lefty liberal progressives and I’ve never said they were perfect by ant means. What I’ve posted are the facts of my research and if you take the time to check my comments, you’ll find my references backup my statements. The unions I’ve mentioned are nothing more than communist organizations who’ve outlived their usefullness. They’ve become political tools.

      You libs just need someone to demonize and the Koch boys have replaced Palin, Beck and FOX for the time being.

      • JeffH

        Oh, just to clarify before the libs put any words in my mouth and start calling me anti-union, I said…”The unions I’ve mentioned” which means “not all unions”…capiche?

  • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Wiselady

    Wiselady says:
    2-25-11

    I quit teaching for several reasons: I could not tutor children after school because it made other teachers look bad. I had to stick to the mediocrity established by the Calif. Teachers Assoc…don’t give too much home work, teach more Spanish to Hispanic students if they were bi-lingual, don’t give 100 words for spelling weekly tests,(5th graders could not spell lst, 2nd, 3rd, or, 4th, grade level words), but I did it to help the students catch up…. they loved it!! I went against the grain of stupidity and have no regrets.

    They wanted me to quit having students memorize vocabulary words which they used in their writing.. Many wrote me letters when they were in high school, thanking me for their ability to comprehend vocabulary.

    I was always arguing for higher academic standards and was told by my Principal that they were just too high for my students. They never complained because they felt confident they would do well in their academic work. I never paid attention to the Union directives.

    While teaching, I organized a bank and became the only woman on the board of directors. It a was successful adventure..but teaching is still my first passion.

    Take a hard look at the behavior of the Wisconsin teachers. Are they a good example to our students accross the nation? Furthermore they have no business brainwashing youngsters to take up their,(Union), cause. That should be illegal. Students are a captive audience. I am sure they could not explain what I call, Collective Bargain Strangleholds. Poor kids.

    To those who voted for Gov.Scott Walker, I say this: demand that all students hear the opposite of what the Unions want. You are paying for education and you have the right to demand that democracy should prevail in teaching some basic economics NOW. Basic principle: supply and demand. There is NO MONEY, therefore there can not be a SUPPLY to meet the demands!!!

    • Lewis Munn

      Good wise thoughts, wiselady.

  • http://charden@neo.rr.com Charles

    JeffH,
    Oh, you do know jopa. I have more fun with him than a barrel
    full of monkeys. jopa is always always two steps behind and a dollar short. He has to be the most misinformed person I ever met. But, you got to love him,who else would you have to pick on. He is a Left- wing loon
    if I ever saw one. The problem is, he dosen`t even know it. He thinks everyone thinks like he does.

  • bob wire

    It’s truly amazing how so many here “KNOW” more about others then they do themselves. ~ They know what they are thinking, how they act, where they can be located, what they will say and who their friends are.

    Impressive skills! Is there a special school for the insight-fully gifted that I don’t know of?

    I want to enroll and get the diploma too!

    I could be rich with such skills in my power!

    • Jana

      bob wire,
      You are definitely speaking about yourself here. You are a Mr. Know It All, but know nothing.

  • jopa

    Jeffh:Just came back from some of the sites you recommended in the past.Head Rush Limbaugh,Not too Britebart and Oscar Mayer, you know the baloney people.They are all in your corner for sure.

  • JeffH

    jopa, I didn’t expect any other response from you…still the shill I see!

  • jopa

    Jeffh;Was that a typo(shill) or were you saying it was a thrill to have me back?

  • Fed Up Texan

    As far as I am concerned, the union is a giant criminal organization, and it survives only to buy elections for corrupt stinking commucrat politicians. I would not pour water on a union member’s head if his feet were on fire.

  • jopa

    Texan;You know what they say comes out of Texass.You ain’t got no horns boy!!

  • neitherSTR8norNARROW

    “Pansies” are flowers, not people. You should know that, Ben.

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