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Gay Marriage Divides GOP

June 3, 2009 by  

Gay marriage divides GOP A major personality in the Republican Party has once again broken ranks on the issue of same-sex marriage stirring more conflict within the already divided GOP.

Former Vice President Dick Cheney said earlier this week he supports gays’ rights to marry and that states, not the federal government, should make the decision on whether to allow it.

"Freedom means freedom for everyone," Cheney said, adding, "I think people ought to be free to enter into any kind of union they wish, any kind of arrangement they wish."

His views drew predictable criticism from the leadership of the Republican Party, with RNC chairman Michael Steele reiterating his opposition to same-sex marriage.

Stressing that Cheney brings a personal perspective to the debate, Steele said in his view marriage is between a man and a woman, which is "very much in line with what [President Obama] has said."

The GOP position has also been that marriage should be regulated at the federal level, although currently the issue of homosexual marriages is being decided on a state-by-state basis.

Currently, Massachusetts, Connecticut and Iowa allow same-sex marriages, and three more states have passed appropriate legislation which will come into effect later this year.
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  • Chris

    Actually, it’s Massachusetts, Connecticut, Iowa, Vermont, Maine, and New Hampshire.

    • Chris

      Unless you mean “where they are currently performed” as opposed to “legalized”.

      • danny crow

        you kind of alien weird freaky butt sniffing “come”hey mom,what do i do with this and more importantly,Dad where do i put it,as for you girls i think that,that is what you are,just tell me one thing.Where the heck do you think that you had come from?Well let me tell you.I have learned not only from learning in school,but as well as my self observation that you did not show up here by daddy sticking a plastic object into your mommy’s uterus.You were born of a farm animal i think i may be giving you way to much credit.What i am saying is that i would not want you as a farm animal.People let yourself are manipulator’s self center self serving as well as self gratified.You take take,rape,rape,molest children,and are disease ridden and have brought A.I.D.S. to the world so go to {h…….}

        • Barb Patton

          You actually went to school?
          Read what you wrote and see how proud your teachers are about now.

          • Gabrielle

            I believe homo’s should have to register just like sex offenders so that we know who’s gay in our neighborhoods in order to protect our children. If we all become gay we’ll extinct the human race you idiots. Grow up and get with the opposite sex…eventually you’ll have too. SMH

          • Goofy

            Forgive me on what I am going to say.I am a good man.I would not hurt anyone unless provocked.I am a triand soldier is why to protect what is right.
            To I say this too it is toward.Its ok to love one another in different ways but not this.First gay means “happy or bright” look it up.Action on how you feel or type of day.We all can relate to this.Good.Now queer means “strange;eccentric person;slightly ill;having mental quirks;slang for homosexual;
            and get this to spoil the smooth operation or success of;Wait for it and means counterfiet money how about it Congress stand up and bow.So you want to be married like the rest of us honest and spiritual Men and Women that beleive in marriage as a union to be come one.YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO HAVE THIS UNITY.Live together if you must.Marriage hell no.I do not care if you like it.People like you are screwing up our world because you do not like the rules so we are going to screw up your lives.So we get tired and give in.That is how week we and our government has become.In the day you would of been exterminated.But that is not politically correct.F your feelings.Man rules of today need to be siplified and in stone and Our Constitution rules are to be put back into place PERIOD.I am a man that beleives in working hard;being fair;honest;respecting to all other men and thier belongings for I am no better than he.A man that can work along side another,proud to raise his family and dicipline his chidren when it needs to be.Now we must dicipline our Government.You want change America.Really? do you??Then stop your BS and start reading about these people and vote for whom is going to take care of the future of our nation and to give our future generations a chance to have thier freedom to do what they enjoy.Or Dont and suffer for the rest of your miserable lives.Words are words ACTIONS ARE GOLD.People today are getting to much freedom and sucking the resources out of the rest of us.Welfare is suposed to be for the poeple whom are in poverty and unemployment.Not to have kids and let everyone else pay for it or you just to dam sorry to get off your butt or back and work.Be a street worker if like having kids at least you will be getting paid for it and leave the aid to people that have been honest and need help to get back on thier feet.Your the incumbents like our government.I fought for your freedom and by the Grace of GOD I will fight next to him to keep mine.Time for a change to take back what Our for fathers and all soldiers have fought for decades.VOTE No to queer marriage.It is an insult to a Man and Woman that believes in thier unity.Animals understand this.Look at wolves as close as to humans.They kill because it is not exceptiable.Thats good enough for me.If you people do not like it.People like me do not care of your feelings on this go away or straighten you strange ways and find a male or female.If you can not handle the oppisite sex get help.You have a problem.I am married we fight and laugh and are sad at times.But I like that it makes me a man and human.Love is the strongest power.But it can be used against you as well which is evil works.I know my X-wife is.She tried to wear the pants.She got fooled.Vote in November.GOD BLESS.

          • Angry -American

            Thank you! I needed to laugh, and this comment did it! Being gay is a choice, its also knowing the perverted side of this choice, that causes infections,disease,etc.. yes I also believe gays should register that they are gay.where they live too! too much sex on the televison makes them think sex is available everywhere, and that everyone that is not GAY, wants them and they just don’t know it. Thats what a former gay friend say, YUCK! and to hell with that!
            Let me help you with this idea: As children , many don’t remember being molested or raped, while a baby, or toddler, but when they grow up, these things come up ,memories make up these ideas for them, thus begins the confusion. who will admit to doing this to our children ? Priest, parents, family members….Society….helping them unlock what is buried intheir memories may help them identify why they think they ar GAY….

        • Bi and proud!

          Actually, monkey brought aids. Not gay people. And just because some one is gay or bi, doesn’t mean they want to rape your children. Grow up. Honestly.

          • Vic

            Now it’s the monkeys to blame, right! There’s news for you, no, no monkeys, perverts who had sex with them and then with other perverts. There’s no other way!

        • Mike

          Please stop, your overwhelming argument is crushing me.NOT!

          • Mike

            By the by, the green monkey somewhere in Africa is used as food, cut your finger, get the virus, have sex of any kind, often enough, and HIV ( I think it is AIDS somewhere along the line) is spread. Hepatitis C will kill you a lot quicker and you get it most often from having anal sex. Actions have consequences. Folks have flogged this HIV horse long enough (HIV and/or AIDS) even has or had civil rights.
            People may have the right to do as they please, I nor anyone else has to justify it. I don’t have to justify a man and woman getting married, because it is accepted. We would not be here with out it!

          • RC

            To act responsibly is a large part of freedom. Indulging in any practice that does harm to anyone is irresponsible. Indulging in an perverted lifestyle ie,,queers(strange activity)is definitely harmful to the well being of every American. God completelt destroyed two cities because of men and women lusting after one another. Have you noticed the state of affairs in this country lately? We are a Christian Nation, One Nation Under God. Even though we are a Christian Nation, we do not percecute others’ beliefs. Others’ beliefs whatever they may be are not perverted as in lusting man 4 man or woman 4 woman. Your blow hole was created for the release of toxins from your body, that’s it, period. An for anyone to stick their thing in someones’ poo hole is dangerously unhealthy not to mention just wrong. The term as it was coined back in the day,”if it feels good it must be right”, or “if it feels good, do it”, is a lie straight from Hell. Ever wonder why the politicians never talk about queers and how wrong and disgusting it is as a way of life? I do. We should insist that all of them run on a platform of homesexuality is not American!!! And what I have read here today tells me that whomever does will win the 2012 Election. Personally I find your perverted lifestyle repugnant. Thank you, RC

        • NJB

          That maybe the most disjointed, awful, paragraph I have ever seen written. No one cares what you say you dumb redneck

    • http://none Darlene F Burgi

      A quote from a book written BC: ” 2. For as their laws and their governments were established by the voice of the people, and they who chose evil were more numerous than they who chose good, therefore they were ripening for destruction, for the laws had become corrupted. 3. Yea, and this was not all; they were a stiffnecked people, insomuch that they could not be governed by the law nor justice, save it were to there destruction.”

      This is us today . . . we will not be governed except by laws that are to our destruction . . . for example: Abortion, same sex marriage, speech (hate) and gun (safety) control and many other such actions which take our freedom. FREEDOM is a gift from God that allows for our progression, but FREEDOM must be exercised within certain boundaries (laws, commandments). Many, if not most, people desire to set their own boundaries to include their disobedience (sins), rather than conform to the law and order than brings growth and peace. We are choosing to be governed by laws that will act to our destruction.

      • rodin

        Darlene – You remind me of the Old Yeller movie. You were probably a lovable decent human being at one point, but there’s a lot of foam coming out of your mouth now. Maybe we need a new category of mercy killing called “Christianicide” to help put you out of your misery and stop infecting others with rabid hateful ideas.

        • Michael

          You got most of the letter’s in this name right..because you are a rodent.You and your ilk are sodom and gomarrah hell bound, and i say good riddance.You’re not the solution you’re the problem, take your sodomite mentality & lifestyle back to dailykos et al..
          Don’t you just love the so-call tolerance of the fringe far left, except when you don’t totally agree with their brainwashed indoctrinated propaganda, then it’s everyone else that’s intolerant.
          You and your ilk’s HYPOCRISY know no bounds!!

          • Michelle Birdsong

            Yes, yes, Michael

          • MsAmericanPatriot

            Michael I am looking for a single white male here with the EXACT same mindset as I have. Are you between the ages of 38-44 with a full head of hair. I hate homos. It says FOUR times in the Bible how bad faggotdom is: twice in the Old and twice in the New.

        • 13th Gen. American

          See Robin is the hateful one. She wants to kill anyone who doesnt agree with her. These people are just so the hypocrites. Everything they say about us they are. All I saw was us not agreeing with them and why. As soon as they get told their wrong they go into a hateful foaming at the mouth rage. Please type more so you can prove our point.

          • BARBIE

            YOU GO, WE SHOULD GET A “CHRISTIAN HATE CRIME” law on the books and let them see how it feels. We are getting tired of of those cry babies. We should write to ACLJ and see how to do just that. The Muslims are trying to get a “Islam or Muslim hate crime law on the books. What do you guys think?

          • Humbert

            Yes, they are the real haters and intolerant, the proverbial wolves in lamb skin. It’s time America wakws up and see them for what they are. No victims.

        • Sue Sorenson

          You are like a lot of people. Don’t like the truth – just what you like to think to make you feel good about yourself.

        • http://naver Brady

          Hello, Rodin. Well, I hate to tell you this, but Darlene is right! Here I’m not only a Christian, but also a father of 4 children (3 boys and 1 girl). They know that marriage is between a man and a woman. This is not just because it says so in the Bible, but because that lifestyle is immoral and unethical. You think that America was set up on the “do anything you want to” style of freedom. Well, I also have a masters degree in history and I’m telling you that you are wrong and need to go back to school. Why? It seems that you didn’t read your history books about our Constitution and our Christian aspect of freedom. All 45 of our founding fathers were Conservative Christians and that is how our Constitution was written. The military doesn’t even accept gays into the ranks because of the chance of spreading AIDS and breaking down morale in the ranks. Even Clinton, lo and behold, passed the “Protection of Marriage Act”. I suggest that you stop attacking others for their higher, more moral beliefs and take a good look at you wretched self. It’s people like you that are the problem, not people who believe in God.

          Brady “Samurai” Bowe
          U. S. Army retired

          • BARBIE

            AMEN BROTHER !!!!!!! Well spoken. I still think we should get a “Christian Hate Crimes” law on the books that we may be protected from these types of people. I’m so sick of being put down because I’m a Christian. I am proud to be accepted by our Father. What do they have to be proud of? They are shameful sinful and lost if they don’t change their ways. I love them but not their actions and hateful evil spirited attitudes.

          • Vincent R

            Wow! A Masters Degree in History? From what backwater college that teaches that the Founding Fathers were Conservative Christians did you get that degree from? Many of the Founding Fathers were agnostics or Diests; many were also Freemasons and Slave Owners (how very Chrisitan of them!). Do you even see the name Jesus in any important writings by Jefferson, Adams (Sam or John), Washington, Hamilton or Franklin? Seems to me they bent over backwards to keep God out of American politics. You NeoCon Christians must not have a lot of faith in yourself, your religion, your marraige, your society or your country to be threatened by the idea of same sex marraige. I have been a happily married atheist for 15 years, and my 3 sons know that Jesus taught to love everyone, hate no one, and that in America, all people are equal and entitled to equal rights under the law. Maybe you should re-read the Constitution and the Bible (focus on the New Testament), and while you are at it, call your alma mater and try to get a refund. It doesn’t sound like you got your money’s worth.

          • John

            Brady,
            I was just wondering if you would give me a reputable source that could back up your claim about the founding fathers’ religious views.

          • Brenda

            I’m a Veteran and I’ll tell you what I observed: I had 4 outstanding gay guys on the same floor of my dorm as me. I have no idea how many others were in the building- probably a lot more. They were the top of everything they did. They weren’t ignorant hillbillies like most of the other enlisted. The gays rose to the top. Give me a break about spreading AIDS.

            How about you focus on the 98% of pedophiles who are HETEROSEXUAL men? How about you focus on the 60% divorce rate in this country and how about you focus on your OWN family. I’m sure a look in your backyard will dig up all kinds of stuff Sergeant.

            Get over the gay issue. They deserve the same freedoms as everyone else.

          • http://pcl Trusvan

            Amen keep up the good work

          • Michael O’

            God bless you, Brady! The liberals have messed things up enough in this country. Especially our schools! They will all have their time in God’s court! No corrupt judges and lawyers there!

          • Matt man

            Brady,
            First, I noticed by your moniker that you are a retired veteran so thank you for your service: may God bless you and your family. I could not agree with your statements more. So many people today want to either deny our history, don’t know our history, or think that we are far “progressed” with our ‘modern’ thinking and way back when they were just a bunch of bigoted, racist, prudes. What people fail to realize today are the following facts: America would have never become a Nation without the direct intervention and hand of God leading; we became the greatest nation on earth because of the Christianity and belief in God of our founding fathers that led them to create the greatest man-made document in this world’s history – our Constitution (Declaration of Independence a close second); this nation has been the greatest test of mankind since the creation of the Jewish people/nation in biblical times. Why were the Jewish people chosen by God? Why were they special? What made them special? Were they better then everyone else back then? No, they were not necessarily better. However, what made them special was the fact that they were chosen by God and He had a definite purpose for them as a people – to show His love, mercy, forgiveness, Holiness, and greatness to other people/nations. To those who are given much, much is required. The USA for a long time now, probably since the end of WWII, has given more money, food, assistance, and manpower, than any other nation on earth, before or since. We have been blessed as a nation and people and we have rightly given beyond our borders to others in need. People can deny God all they want but as we reject Him and His laws as a nation and people then His blessings will be withdrawn from this nation. We can see that this has been happening.
            What can we do as individuals to halt this degradation? Love each other. Stand up for those who can’t. Pray for one another. Like you Brady and your wife – be good parents to our children; teach them right from wrong, be responsible, be accountable…we need to find a Ronald Reagan in our ranks again. I don’t care if people may have disagreed with some of his policies but what I can tell you is that he made everyone proud that we were Americans! He commanded respect in the world and foreign leaders thought highly of him. In fact 2 of the greatest leaders in modern history, in my opinion, were Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher. God bless America…now we have a lot of work to do.

          • John Mack

            George Washington, who stopped attending church, referred Deistically to Providence over 1700 times, to Christ 1 time, and not in any way to endorse his divinity.

          • Dave

            “More moral” Do you even hear yourself? All of the founding fathers were conservative Christians because that’s the only kind there were at the time. Some of them may not have thought that way but they had to say they did to fit in. Over the time all people, including Americans, eveolved as they became more educated. Back then one of the only ways to get educated was at a religious school and you were taught to be religious, much like modern day Madrasas to Muslims in the Middle East. To assume that this country was meant to be inhabited and governed by only conservative fundamentalist Christians is to make the same mistake that theocracies in other countries with low literacy rates make. Some sects of Chrisianity will even ordain gay ministers now. Our founding fatheys may have been Christian but if they wanted this country to be run as a Christian theocracy they wouldn’t have written the Constitution which guarantees equality regardless of religion. They just would have used the Bible. If you choose to live your life under the letter of the Bible then you have the right to do that but when you say everyone has to then you’re being downright UnAmerican. If someone is gay it doesn’t affect your life one bit. Why do you even care? What if your son was gay? Would you disown him? How is that acceptable? A marriage is a legal arrangement not a religious one so it doesn’t matter what God says in the Bible. The real fair legal thing to do is to make every “marriage” a civil union and let each person’s own place of worship decide if they should be married there.

          • Jack

            Rodin & Vincent must be birds of a feather. If I were a betting man I would say they are atheists and hate the very idea of God or any form of normalcy judging by the way they talk. Vincent is correct that some of the founding fathers were deists but that does not take away that most believed in common decency and marriage between one man and one woman. At least they also believed in God! People like Rodin & Vincent spend a lot of time and energy trying very hard to discredit Christianity in anyway they can. I think they lay awake at night gnashing their teeth trying to think of some evil scheme against all normal people people who love this country, God, mom and apple pie. They really do hate and it shows big time. They are truly UN-American because America was not founded on Godless atheism, Sodomy, and other crimes against God and nature. This country was founded upon Godly principles, family, moral values, etc. Where did all of these negative people come from in these later days? If they have their way they will destroy the United States much like countries in past history have been destroyed. These people are puppets of their master satan and don’t even know it!!!

          • Jack

            I am a veteran too Brenda! When I was in the service back in the 60’s it was illegal to be a queer. They would be kicked out of the service if found out! Sorry queer is the slang word we used and I think it is still fitting today. I am for freedom for all people no matter what race or religion but when these homosexuals try to force their way upon the normal people in our great country then it is time for normal people to stand up to protect our country and our sacred God ordained marriage between one man and one woman before it is too late. Brenda also made the typical and false comment that 98% of pedophiles are Heterosexual men! Do I detect some slight bias there? Tell us Brenda do you hate men and maybe you are a lesbian? Just wondering? The Truth be known, most homosexuals are pedophiles and most were molested by same sex individuals when they were children. Check out this web site and tell me homosexuals do not prefer children. http://www.nambla.org/ this is the NAMBLA webs site and it is an official homosexual web site that loves children and they are not ashamed of it. Back to Brenda’s false statement about heterosexual men. Well Brenda do the math. It would stand to reason that by sheer numbers yes there would be more pedophiles that are heterosexuals since about 98% of the whole human race is heterosexual….do the math. Now let’s look at it this way. Let’s look at the percentage of groups such as homosexuals. There are far higher percentages of the whole group of homosexuals that are pedophiles….see the difference? It seems these left wing people play games with statistics and numbers, but are not really telling the whole truth. Another thing the homosexual lifestyle is destructive in many ways. The very anatomy of their sex is very unhealthy, not only physically but mentally as well. Homosexuals are committing crimes against God, themselves, nature and the end result is death. It is really a shame.

          • Diane

            Brady, I am sorry you are raising your children with such bigotry. You do know that most civilized nations have no limitations on gays serving in the military, don’t you? And I think we have lost out on the service of many fine men and women by our antiquated and bigoted views. We all deserve basic civil rights, and that does include gay citizens. I am a straight married woman with 4 children and I have raised my children to be kind and accepting of differences and not close minded. And if one of them turn out to be gay, I will gladly be at the wedding.

          • MsAmericanPatriot

            I can give a source that PROVES it. A book that has been out of publication since 1863 and is LOATHED by the American Civil Liberties Union. It can be found on a web site called Patriot Depot. It is by Benjamin F Morris and it is entitled: THE CHRISTIAN LIFE AND CHARACTER OF THE CIVIL INSTITUTIONS OF THE UNITED STATES.

          • Laurie

            Gays may deserve agency to condemn themselves to hell, but they do not have the right to force their lifestyles on those who are heterosexual or believers of God. They do not have the right to brain wash children in our schools that same-sex is a natural occurrence. To my knowledge baboons and other animal are not attracted to the same-sex (or animals would become extinct). So gay’s morals seem to be even lower than that of all animals. You know what they say about educated gay’s, “They have knowledge, but not wisdom”.

          • PJMcK1954

            On this subject, you hit the nails dead-on target. Too bad that those nails weren’t on a wooden coffin that we could use to bury (or better yet to cremate) the hypocrisy of liberalism.
            While I was growing up, the lines between right & wrong, normal & abnormal and natural & perverted weren’t as blurred as they are today.
            The modern educational system and the media.
            By the way, according to one survey, over 80% those in the American media don’t participate in regular worship in church, synogogue, temple or mosque.
            Back in 1977 (which was the year that I began my 20 years and two days of active duty in the Navy), if you told me that politicians would be pandering to the shrill demands of a homosexual minority, I would’ve told you that you were crazy. Now we are being treated like we are the ones who are out of touch with reality.
            As for those who are trying to impose new pseudo-values, such as the “constitutional right” to murder the unborn children and legalize so-called “marriage” between same-sex couples, I’m sure that those who wrote the constitution weren’t thinking about ways to open the doors to the demands of baby-killers and perverts.

          • Bob Marshall

            I will vote for whom i please. If this canidate is for gay marriage. I will not vote for him or her. It appears to be a life style one chooses, not one that is inherited. I still believe marriage is meant to be one man and one woman. To say other wise is just trying to justify the way homosexuals are living. Wheather one believes in the words in the Bible or not i take God at his word when it says every knee will bend , every head will bow and confess God is who he says he is.The most horrible words to ever be heard will be ” Depart from me , i know you not”

        • http://www.no-more-sleep-disorders.com Big T

          Good Answer! rodin

        • rodin

          Mr. Brady Bowe

          You are a hater just like the rest of the writers on this website. You can’t stand that there are other human beings that think differently but are entitled to the same rights and freedoms that you supposedly fought for. Retired military … bah…
          Did you know that military officers are three times more likely to sexually abuse their children? Frankly I don’t know if it’s true either, but if you’re going to throw around stupid statements like gays would increase aids in the military, then you deserve anything you get. You’re an idiot…. and a Masters degree in history… what’d you do? take seminars from Tammy Faye and Jim Baker?

          There is NO basis of freedom in Christian history and theology. Religion teaches exactly the opposite and I defy you to find a single incidence in the the last 2000 years where a religious state was set up with principles of freedom. EVERYTIME religion has become involved, people have been killed, subjugated and enslaved by the priests. Christianity is no different than Islam in it’s desire to enslave and seek the blood of non-believers. The founding fathers expressly understood these concepts so that they made it clear no religion could hold power over the government and the freedom’s of its peoples. Why don’t you go BACK to school and get a little more educated because it’s obvious you did not study very much. Especially, anywhere beyond what you say you supposedly learned. A Master’s degree? LMAO. “All 45 were “conservative Christians”” LOL …. as compared to what?… liberal Christians?, sitting on the fence Christians? just converted Christians? formerly Jewish Christians? Christians that wanted to learn the teachings of Lord Buddha? You crack me up dude. And don’t take too much offence about military officers “diddling their kids” If you want to throw inaccurate insults then learn to take it as well.

          As far as political expediency goes, there are far too many Americans holding on to ancient hatreds and bigotry for same sex marriage to be recognized right now. Clinton knew this and he had bigger fish to fry. I do not hold expediency against him.

          But I suppose my wretched self is the problem in society. Poor poor me… I so wretched. And by the way asshole… I’m not attacking anybody that doesn’t attack or spread vile hatred and bigotry first. Learn to be a man.

          • Jo

            Dear Rodin,
            You have taken a lot of heat here. I don’t mean to give you more – just something to think about: You said that there has never been a religious state set up where there was freedom. Unfortunately, in the past, when religions or churches have united with political states or sovreign nations, you are right, there had been little freedom and much tyranny and oppression – even things like torture were employed against citizens. Clearly, TRUE Christianity would not allow such things. Jesus Christ did not approve of those religious states as you call them – of that I am sure.
            But, our ForeFathers were a different kind of Christian – much more enlightened. They knew that true Christianity is very tolerant and very much in agreement with the cause of liberty. After all, according to Christianity God gave us this life to test us to see if we would choose good or evil. We cannot choose anything if our choices are forced upon us by an intolerant fascist state. Our Christian ForeFathers knew that and so they created the Constitution and Bill of Rights and our religious freedom or even freedom not to be religious at all.
            But as to the question at hand – Gay marriage – here is the best I can do: I am sure you would agree that murder and theft should be against the law cause others are harmed by such. These “sins” are against the Christian/Jewish 10 commandments. Almost all modern law makes them crimes. Christian law – the 10 commandments – does not condone the gay lifestyle at least in most bibles i’ve read, much less legalized gay marriage. Stay with me here: The connundrum for Christians, then, is with their firm belief in Bible teachings, how do they condone gay marriage, while at the same time their Christian beliefs teach them to allow others the freedom to make their own choices and to be tolerant. Remember freedom does not mean that murder and theft are Ok – they are not – they hurt others. The gay person will say that his gay marriage hurts no one, but to a Christian indeed they do feel that they would go against the teaching of their God were they to condone gay marriage in a legal sense. And that hurts them Spiritually because Christians need to be free to say no to that which they believe is against god’s law or they feel they cannot be true to their God or obey his commandments.
            To me the only resolution of this is some Christian tolerance in the form of agreement to allow civil unions, but not legalized marriage, which a Christian does not feel free to allow any more than they feel free to allow or condone murder or theft in our secular laws. Christians cannot also allow for the teaching of the the OKness of gay lifestyles in their schools to their children, because to them that would be the same as teaching in school that the lifestyle of a criminal who steals for a living is also OK. A Christian is not FREE to agree that any of that is OK.
            But, our Christianity DOES allow us to teach kindness and tolerance to those who are different from us. We just cannot teach that the gay lifestyle is one that is OK for us or for our children. It is a fine line we must tread. We are not fascists and we do not mean to be intolerant, but we simply cannot do it and remain true to our God and His teachings in the bible. If we are forced to make this choice by government then we loose our religious freedom to believe as we do, and you become the intolerant ones not giving us our freedom to live according to our spiritual convictions.
            Of course we should be kind, tolerant and cause no harm to gay people, but why can you not agree that civil unions can solve this problem for everyone and allow the most freedom for everyone – both gay and straight.
            Our Forefathers were Christians and they knew that true Christianity allows everyone to make their own free choices and does not force anyone to be good, but does allow everyone to live up the highest ideals of their own free conscience. But, for Christians to be free and to live up to their own consciences they cannot condone legallized gay marriage any more than they can conone legal abortion, which to them is just another form of murder.
            Then let us all be free by each side giving in a little – the Christians being tolerant of civil unions and being kind to those who live differently than we, and the gays being tolerant of the Christians need to follow the dictates of his conscience and religion and spiritual beliefs by not pushing his agenda too far into the personal lives of Christians, such as influencing what our children are taught in schools, or even forcing us to hire gays rather than that being our choice, after all, small business owners may have their children working for them – say in a restaurant – and they have a right not to hire anyone that they do not want their children to be influenced by. Some christians may choose to hire gays and my not mind their children working with gays in their store, but we MUST BE FREE and have the right to choose. WE MUST TRY TO LIVE AND LET LIVE BUT NOT FORCE OUR VIEW AND LIFESTYLES ON EACH OTHER. Sincerely, Jo Anna H.

          • Marie

            Dad was also having sex with men in tents in Vietnam! That was in the seventies before AIDS was recognized.

          • keith

            blah blah blah blah

          • Shirl

            My personal feelings Gays are sick. God created women for man an from man came a women.

          • bruce milne

            you know it is funny, as in strange, that the “moral debate” here really is connected to what we as a society do in regards to people loving one and other. the strangeness is that this “moral debate” often appears to elicit hate, anger, and intolerance. personally i just don’t think the issue of gay marriage is worthy of that level of volatility. don’t we have more important issues to resolve? if we let people who love each other marry, and don’t fight about it, it will become at least as boring as traditional marriage. as a man lucky enough to be married to a wonderful woman, i feel safe enough to say that marriage is not a hot topic unless we make it so. personally, i think our energies are best spent elsewhere. can’t we all just try to get along?

          • Brenda

            you go Rogin!
            I’m with you man! Hah! These people are idiots.
            By the way Jo, Christianity is a cult. I’m sorry you got involved with the hype. Learn to THINK for yourself people.

          • Michael O’

            Why do you hate those who have a differing opinion from your own?

          • Dave

            Jo Anna,
            I appreciate you tone and you do seem sincere. BUT it does not really makes sense to say that having legal gay marriage spiritually hurts Christians. Christians can believe that no other Christian should have a homosexual marriage because they have the right to believe whatever they want. However, bringing that belief into the legal system goes against others freedom of religion. Why do Christians care what is “legal?” Why would you be able to use a Christian belief to outlaw something. Also, please do not relate being gay to murdering someone. That is pretty offensive. No one else is hurt by being gay. If you are spiritually hurt then go to a church to be healed. “Good Christians” around this country are murdering people for being gay and calling it righteous. How can you condone that? Why would you deny someone a civil right because your religion tells you to? You should think for yourself about civil matters and use your own reason and logic. Times change and there is a reason that people become less fundamentalist as they become more literate. It’s mostly because of the evolution of the ability for one to reason for oneself. I’m not trying to say you can’t reason for yourself I’m just saying you’re not.

          • david mck

            I work in a drug/alcohol and trauma rehab and I can tell you from 1st hand experience that homosexuality is a mental illness. substance abusers make up 10% of the population overall and at any given time gays make up 30+% of the rehab . I speak with these individuals on a daily basis and at their lowest most unguarded moments. I have no hate for them. They are just lost people. I was raised christian and believe in god but would not consider myself religious at all. My political views are libertarian.I do not support gay marriage it is like codifying mental illness as a basis for a marriage. the other aspect of this argument is a civil union would protect their rights and not trample on other people’s value system. This is why the militant gays are obsessed with this it is because marriage is sacred to many people and they want to destroy it because they hate being told they are wrong even though they know it themselves. I have nothing against anyone who is not harming others and could care less what they do at home but this issue is about redefining our definition of society. I have had conversations with many gay people and almost all of them were either molested or raised in a fragmented household that there needs as children were not met causing them to reject society overall because they feel society let them down. so basically this obsession with calling something that could not be marriage marriage is a bug temper tantrum to punish their parents and society for letting them down.

          • http://yahoo zappo777

            To: All Christians Stand up and remember- There are no special rights to “immorality lifestyle”—Do the gays know the meaning of true freedom??? When gays talk about slaves in the Bible—do they really understand that all of us are slaves? And due to ignorance, do they know who is the slave master is? Do the gays know that sin enslaves us all and to regect God and Jesus is in all reality keeping the shackles of sin on them and remain slaves to sin??? Do the gays know what sin is even??? Do the Gays know why the Father(God) turn His Back on the SON while Jesus hung on the cross??? For God so loved the world that he gave His only BEGOTTEN SON that whoever believe on HIM would not perish, but have eternal life…For God sent the SON not to condemn the world but that the world would be saved through HIM. Do the gays know that to regect the sacrifice of Gods SON JESUS MEANS??? Do the gays know what the wages of sin is ??? do the gays know w hat it means to be bought with a price or sold into when it comes to slavery???Freedom of this world is not True Freedom…We do have a choice to be free or slaves–all of it—-the answers start at “The Foot of the Cross”—Forgiveness comes with repentance—not practicing SIN!So do the gays want to be slaves to sin or free from sin?? For what you sow is what you will reap—eternity in Heaven or Eternity in Hell—gays—your choice.

          • Bi and proud!

            god isn’t real. Get another reason because honestly, it’s getting old hearing sick heterosexuals like yourself use that worthless excuse.

        • Andrew Klein

          Hey Roden! You act wise beyond your your years when comes to bashing Brady Bowe. You I imagine are a liberal version of Regan, having skin cancer on your nose and rectum at the same time. Word of advice get (WORDS REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT) and start listening to Mr. Bowe. Military men are among the most experienced people in America. Like I said before same-sex marriage is a sin under God and may he have mercy on your soul.

          • Ken Haas

            I do not know here this comment fits but …
            Republicans are schizzo about states rights. They want abortion and gsy marriage decided by the federal govt. To make it easier for lobbyists, they wany economics decided at the state level.

            Just another example where the right wing has no clear principles – just whatever feels good at the moment.

          • Dave

            Andrew Klein,
            Maybe Rodin is an Atheist. Then he really doesn’t give a damn whether God has mercy on him or not. The last thing I’m sure he cares about is your opinion, nor does he seek you approval. Our soldiers deserve our respect because they risk their lives for our country. However, enlisting in the military doesn’t suddenly make you smarter than anyone else. I know more than one person the armed forces that may be brave but they are far from being rocket scientists.

          • http://savageheart.blogspot.com/ Silverdrake

            It’s not a sin under my God. And that Bible you keep thumping? You might consider that it’s less than half of what it was before the Council of Nicea gutted it to produce a cohesive political message, and the Protestant movement then removed several more books to make it suit their political message.

            Oh, and let’s also mention that piddly little First Amendment that says the US will NOT have a state religion, nor infringe on the beliefs of others and the free exercise thereof.

            If you don’t like homosexual marriage, don’t have one. But as guaranteed by the First and Fourteenth Amendments, others have every right to have one if they so choose.

        • rodin

          Andrew
          Not sure where your idiocy comes from, but your mother definitely should not have slept with her cousin. As for respecting people in the military, respect is earned…. assuming Bowe was military… he doesn’t have a lot of credibility with any of his claims.

          Regarding sinning under god… that’s between him and me.. you stay out of my relationship with him, Don’t tell me what I can and can’t do and god and I will have a chat on our own time. I’m sure he doesnt need you to stick up for him. (WORD REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT)

          • keith

            bla bla blah blah bla bla bla,your nothing but a perverted windbag!

          • Aaron

            One, your comment regarding military personnel being more likely to sexually abuse their children is ridiculous. Im on active duty and in my 7 years in the service, I have yet to run into a man or a woman sexually abusing their children. Two, why is it that homosexuals feel like they need to push their agenda down everyones throat even though the majority of Americans believe marriage should be between a man and a woman. If someone is gay, fine but dont force me to accept that persons lifestyle with legislation supporting what most people consider immoral and revolting. Finally, why is it that liberals claim they have tolerance for other people, but do everything in their power to take away personal liberties for everyone that does not agree with them.

          • BIG C

            i use to not have anything againest guy until they wanted to change our laws to fit their needs and change my needs to not be exposed or forced to be exposed to their crap we need to go back to gay bashing like the old day thay i would not take part in but not i see why people did this the gays themselves have made me a hater not any thing or any thing else STAY OUT OF MY WORLD STAY HOME STAY IN A CLOSET OR GET THE CRAP YOU DO NOT LIKE EVEN GOOD PEOPLE CAN BE IMMORAL AND TOTALLY SCUM OF THE EARTH AND A SAD WAST OF HUMAN SKIN AND SPACE

        • http://donthaveone Mark

          What is hateful, is to shove your rod up another mans rectum. Dude, that is one hateful thing that I dont ever want to happen to me on my worst day on earth. That is just so hateful, gross, disgusting, vile, perverted, dirty, infectious, and foulest thing on earth. So dont call that girl hateful. That is just a mean hateful thing to do to somebody, and you enjoy doing it. sick.

          • Jack

            Right on Mark! You Tell Em! You hit the nail on the head. It is a most disgusting perverted behavior that is very sick and unhealthy. I read something on the internet the other day that about 25 – 30 % of homosexual men actually eat feces from their sexual behavior!!! That is sick!! These people march in parades mostly naked, grapple each other publicly, have bathroom sex, and the list goes on. Now tell me this is not sick behavior? Then these types of perverts are demanding to get married? Give and inch and they will take a mile!!! Stand up people we must not give an inch!! Never!!!

          • http://savageheart.blogspot.com/ Silverdrake

            The gays I know consider the pride marchers to be exhibitionist asshats who do more harm than good with their behavior. As for extreme sexual fetishes, that occurs among heterosexuals, too.

            In any case, your not liking someone or their behavior is not a valid reason to deny them their rights under the Constitution. I’m sure the homosexuals don’t like your spewing vituperation at them, but I spent a decade of my life defending your right to say it, just as I defend their right to marry as equal protection under the law.

        • rodin

          Mark, this isnt about what you like to do in bed with other men or don’t like to do. I don’t care what your sexual practices are. What I care about is whether human beings are being treated with the same secular rights and respect that others are accorded by law. Whatever you find distasteful you don’t have to eat. Personally, I don’t like eating barbecued chicken feet, but to some they are a dim sum delicacy. You may not like certain types of sex and that’s your business but don’t go spreading your vile hatred and bigotry. Learn to accept that others may not have the same interests as yourself. They aren’t hurting you.

          • BOE

            Rodin…you want rights now to marry and rights to show off your gayness to straights. Then what you perverts want us to make it legal to have sex in street.,or have sex with children? Where does your A-moral behavior stop??

          • swamp fox

            (COMMENT REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT)

          • gary

            Would someone care to tell me the difference between a gay, and a pedofile?? I believe some pedofiles are also gay.Maybe all!! Well anyway they are all very mentally messed up. I sure think you would get tired of wiping brown shoe polish from your screw driver all the time. How you ever gonna get any work done? LOL LOL LOL LOL I crack myself up, and so do you gay people with your ranting and B.S.

          • Doomkin1110

            57% of Americans do not think that marriages between same-sex couples should be recognized by the law as valid, with the same rights as traditional marriages. -USA Today/Gallup Poll. May 7-10, 2009.

            Before I begin, I would like to state first that I am, first and foremost, a Christian, and a Conservative (not Republican) second. I hold to the doctrines of the true faith and to compromise my beliefs would be to go against my own conscience and the commands of Almighty God. I understand your point, I truely do. But I respectfully disagree.

            If marriage were to be declared a fundamental civil right for everybody, what should be done if a church refused to marry a homosexual couple? You cannot deny someone their civil rights; it is the law. If the church were to follow their doctrine and refuse to participate in such a union though, they would risk losing their tax-exempt status. Without this tax-exempt status, a church would cease to be. It would become unsustainable. Essentially, the government would be infringing upon the rights of the Christian church.

            The First Ammendment to the United States Constitution states the following. “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”

            They are not allowed, by Constitutional law, to create a state religion (such examples of this are the Roman Catholic Church which fell under the full authority of the Roman Emperor, and the Anglican Church which fell under the full authority of the King of England, respectfully, becoming tools used to oppress the people, rather than to spread the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ). Marriage is, by its very nature, a sacred ceremony, and by Constitutional law, the Government does not have the power or the authority to ordain something as holy and sacred.

            As I said before, I respect your opinion, though I disagree with it. But that is the beauty of these United States; that although we come from diverse backgrounds and walks of life, we have the oppourtunity to come together in a civilized manner to debate or discuss such things as these.

          • Jill, Ca.

            Have you ever been with a woman? Just out of curiosity?

          • Matt man

            Rodin,
            Here’s the problem society has today – let’s tolerate every kind of behavior because hey, hey, we are a free people. Each to his own, etc, etc…you can do whatever you like as long as it doesn’t directly affect me…there is no right or wrong any more. Just do whatever man. Please do yourself a favor and study history to determine what is the cornerstone of society? Down through the ages, in any society, the foundation/cornerstone(s) of that society is the family unit. Without this family unit there is no Society. As the family unit concept gets trampled, trashed, and dissed on this leads to a breakdown in society. Homosexuality does not support Society it is rather a parasite on society. Argue all you want but simple logic and physiology/biology dictate these facts. Homosexuals can not procreate, without which, a society will eventually die. As the family unit receives greater and greater destructive forces in the society in which it lives it will eventually fracture and dissolve we see this happening with all too great a frequency in these modern times. Now, please don’t get me wrong I am certainly not saying that Homosexuality is the cause of this breakdown although it certainly is a small part of the bigger picture. It is almost more of a symptom of the times we are living in just as the fracturing of the family unit is. Anyway, I wish you well, but you should reconsider some of your commentary concerning Mr. Brady. I would hope that we could/would all converse like grown adults not emotion/hormone driven teenagers. All the best to you and yours.

          • Beachangel

            Rodin,

            I have a gay son. He says and others have said it is not a lifestyle choice. I firmly believe they are born that way. I love my son and his partner and they have a beautiful life together and are more tolerant of other folks that I may be. They are both successful business men and do not hurt anyone. Isn’t this what we all want? To be healthy and happy.What difference does it make to you ?What business is it of someone else’s what anyone does in their bedroom.Why can’t we just accept people for who they are not what they do in the bedroom?

          • http://savageheart.blogspot.com/ Silverdrake

            Doomkin1110, no church that has theological objections to gays or gay marriage should be forced to marry them. That would be an unconscionable infringement of that church’s, and its members’, right to free exercise of religion. The Catholic Church does not have to marry divorcees. I therefore see no reason that any church would be expected to perform a marriage that violates its beliefs. Especially when there are other churches, and religions, that have no such objections.

        • Valverde

          Be careful Rodin. Godzilla is lurking just around the corner. Sperm is not meant to be put into the rectum of another, nor is it meant to be put in another’s mouth, or on the ground. Sperm contains life and is meant to beget life. How one has sex is hardly equivalent to whether or not you like barbequed chicken feet or not. It is not about “certain types of sex” but about the purposes of that action. Fornication and masturbation fall under the same restrictions. Sperm is half the sex act and the other half is the ovum. Go ahead and twist and wriggle until you make what I have said come out like you want it to, but that won’t change the truth of it. We have become a perverted society because we think that we can make whatever is to be something it is not. If a man and woman are married that does not mean that each and every time they have sex they must conceive a child. That will probably be one of your wiggles, but you will know very well that is not what is at issue here. This is about something that is very sacred and at the heart of what makes us human and not animal. Think about these things. Go ahead and scream at me, it won’t be the first time, but that will not change the truth of what I said.

        • rodin

          Don’t worry Valverde, I’m not going to scream at you…. merely try to understand where you’re taking your argument. It appears you believe that fornication should only be between a married couple and for the purpose of begetting children. So therefore sex for any other purpose and with anybody else, including oneself, would therefore be sinful, if I understand you correctly. I have no problem if you want to live that way.

          Where I have difficulty is where you believe that your morality should be enshrined in secular law and everybody else should be forced to live according to your concept of sin. I mean what are the penalties for masturbation, for adultery, for fornicating out of wedlock…. I’m sure you have an idea of how to punish all the transgressors.

          • keith

            YO,BUTT RANGER,GOD DOES!

          • http://yahoo.com John (J.P.)

            I liked what Valverda said back in June 2009,sperm was not ment for the mouth nor the rectum, because it is life and life can not come from either location.
            1. Now for you rodin, the wages of SIN is death(not a phyisical death but a separation from GOD-Not allah-in your life. GOD can not look upon sin because HE is HOLIY. To have GOD out of your life is something that no man realy wants. HE(GOD)keeps your heart beating,your eyes to see,your ears to hear,HE is the glue that keeps all of your molecules together as you see yourself and the way others see you.So,may OUR FATHER GOD and LORD JESUS keep you safe and heal your sins.
            2.Fornication is when a non-married person has sex with another non-married person.
            3. Adultery is when a married person has sex with another person inwhich they are NOT married to.
            Both are sin.(it doesnt matter what your preference of life style is.) It is the same,SIN.

            I think we have other thing to be more concerned with than either of these two topic.
            For example:Wheather or not WE as AMERICANs are going to let ALL of yuor rights to be taken waay from us by alouing islam to take over in our great country.If this happens both of us will loose more than our rights, we will loose our heads.Don’t just believe me check it out for your self. Islam is hatred and means to get rid of anyone that is not muslims.:READ: Who Is this Allah? by G.J.O Moshay:and The Great Jihad,by Andrew C. McCarthy, Then rethink what you are fighting over for your RIGHTS.
            PEASE BE WITH YOU ALL>

          • Constance

            They used to lock up Americans who committed adultery because it damages the family unit. The old prison in CT had prisoners who had to serve a year. Trobule with us now is that we keep pushing the envelope so things like no-fault divorce makes divorcing eaiser. Believe me divorce hurts children. My husband who is over 50 stiil remembers when he was 8 and his dad told him that he was to take care of his mother. He just took off and never helped his children. Christians can’t change their beliefs that practicing homosexuality is a sin just because the world changes. We are here to live God’s will to eventually be with Him in Heaven. We are supposed to love our neighbors, but we can’t teach our children that homosexual acts, mastubating, sex outside of marriage is normal and natural. It actually has hurt society in so many ways, filled prisons, unwed mothers, STD’s and spreading HIV/AID, high divorce rate,etc. You can live us you want but don’t force me to accept it. Marriage from time immemorial has been when a man leaves his family and joins with a woman to become one. Gays CANNOT consummate or be joined like a relationship of a father and a mother with their unique calling to bring children into the world naturally – into a family unit. Family units are the building blocks of civilization.

        • Mike

          It’s time to call same sex attraction exactly what it is; poor mental health. No one is born that way, no one has a specific gay gene etc. It is a matter of nurture or lack of it. Psychology has shown that same sex attracted persons have had childhood relationship issues with one or both parents and as a result of this emotional trauma deviate from the norm. If they choose to stay that way, then it’s their choice. The attraction issue is not a choice but a looking and longing for someone who cares; a nurturing never provided by either parent. At least that was the child’s perception. If the bought and paid for American Psychological Association was inclined to deal in the reality of the situation, they’d admit it is what it is. Just no guts against the politics of being gay.

          • Curious

            Just curiously considering ………….. is ‘DOING’ Gay the same as ‘BEING’ Gay? ………. & if one does identify as Gay ……….. what else, today, can he possibly have time to ‘BE’

        • rodin

          Mike, I really wish the school system would teach you a little better. You’re either incredibly gullible or incredibly uneducated, and in both cases incredibly stupid. Homosexuality in study after study has been shown to be biological in a small percentage of human beings irrespective of early childhood influences. The fact is that homosexuals in general are “wired” differently. Most would give their eye teeth in their teenage years to be able to fit in and be what society calls normal, but they can’t… it’s a drive from inside their brains. And it’s not psychology,… it is psychiatry. Please get a freaking education. Next you’ll start saying that having dark skin is or oriental features is also an abomination…. Don’t spread any more of your hate fuelled lies.

          • Jeffrey

            If there were a pill that would turn gay people straight, Ibelieve, many would not take it. This indicates it is a choice.

          • Eve

            rodin here is the problem. Far too many people proclaim to be gay because they think it is ‘cool’. They live for the sitcoms and see an opportunity to be ‘noticed’ and cut free of traditional ties. Thus the gay pride parades, bars, parties etc… Our media makes gay look like a lot of fun. You have Dads leaving their kids and Moms who, after having kids, and living with a hubby decide suddenly they want to be gay. Women go out and have abortions like it is a trip to the mall. A society where nothing is sacred or earned. No consequences for actions that hurt other people. We are in the midst of the ‘free love’ flower children’s left overs. The majority of people in this world are not gay and really don’t feel they should be bombarded by other people’s sexual preferences from all sides. Whether it be gayness or other deviant sexual practices. It should be left up to states whether they want to marry people of the same sex or not, have child molesters walking the streets, prostitution, abortion etc … That way the gays or people with other sexual diviant behavior can all go somewhere with like minded folks and vote for it and people who don’t want that sort of lifestyle can move to a state that doesn’t want it.

          • Curious

            Could you please site those studies?

        • http://walkntalknChristian.blogspot.com Earl

          Sorry, Rodin, but Mike’s right. There have been several studies that supported a gay gene, but every one of them has been severely debunked. Last month, after the final results of the human genome study was wrapped up and another commission met, it was announced that there is absolutely no evidence of the existence of a gay gene. Your evidence no longer holds water in the scientific and medical worlds.

          In addition, why all the trouble over gay marriage? They already have the right of civil unions that are very close to marriage. Why try and ruin a God created institution by allowing a ceremony for two people that are in direct violation of God’s rules? The answer is simple: it’s just another attempt to rid this country of Christian values. The attack on Christian traditions such as marriage, Easter, Christmas, and the Ten Commandments has been going on for years.

          You’re turn, Rodin. Go ahead and call me a few names.

          • Steven

            America, land of the free! All Americans have or should have Equal Rights. One group of people do not have authority or power over another, especially those who have an imaginary god. Please keep your close minded, evil and full of hateful beliefs to yourselves. I’m for Peace and Love for all. Marriage, opposite sex and same sex, big deal. Leave your fellow man to believe and live as they wish, if you can’t, you’re truly unhappy!!!

          • Tim

            Why is everyone so sure God said all this stuff, 4000, 5000 years ago maybe it was valid for those times. Do you think I am going to take the word of some probable sun crazed lunatik who spent 40 days and 40 nights in a dessert eating bugs trying to come to terms with his own sexuality, no, I am not. The old Testament says nothing about Christianity, the mission of Jesus, son of God or not, was to spread good will, loving kindness, understanding. Homosexuality has always been with us. It is human nature to stick your dick where ever it will fit. How many men have entered their wifes anus, or had oral sex with their wife? You are crazy to want us enlightened folks to believe that you are all as pure as the driven snow. You’re afraid,afraid that someone will find out that you have impure thoughts. Fear is a mind killer. AS for myself, sex is rather disgusting, but it sure does feel good, or it did, at my age it doesn’t happen anymore. Too much emphasis is place on where someone
            or how someone gets off. You have your minds in the gutter. Get over yourselves, or start stoning wives who stray. In the bible did you ever hear of a man getting stoned to death for fornicating, no.
            There is a lot of hate in the world, to bad I have to watch my back.
            I just don’t want Christians telling me how to live my life, You are not Christians, you’re full of hate, you even hate yourselves. God will judge me, not you.

          • Jill, Ca.

            I agree with you Earl and I would like to add that “All are born with a sin nature.” We just don’t run around demanding God make a law that we can sin.

          • Curious

            Hmmmmmmmmmm! …………. “sticks & stones” ………… name calling is like swearing or bounding a fist through a wall …….. it denotes a limited vocabulary and a vacuum where substance should be.

          • http://savageheart.blogspot.com/ Silverdrake

            The Bible was used to justify slavery. It was used to justify banning slaves from marrying. It was used to justify banning inter-racial marriages. Now it’s being used to justify denying homosexuals equal protection under the law. No, the legal arrangements currently available to homosexuals do NOT have the same protections and legal standing as marriage. Wills, living wills, and powers of attorney have been overturned where the legal protections of marriage would have been inviolate, and this has been proven in case after case.

            Your religious beliefs to not trump someone else’s right to equal protection under the law.

          • http://hubscher1@earthlink.net bob hubscher

            Come on guys,It is more than freedom of choice. We by accepting gay marriage are also giving all of the benefits and status that was set aside for a man and women. We get all excited about people that drive without seat belts and who are overweight are and how they are going to be an eventual government expense what about these people? Keep in mind that the fall of the Roman Empire was blamed on diversity and their falling in love with homosexuality and their hedonism.History aways has a way of repeating itself.Read the book ‘THE NEW ROMANS” WHICH WAS WRITTEN A FEW YEARS demonstrating the corollation between the Roman civilization and our own. Its SCARY.

        • rodin

          Earl…. nobody said there was a “gay” gene. What I said was that it was biological. Studies have shown that certain areas of the brain are activated more in homosexuals than in straights. There may very well be a combination of genes that give effect to this or it could be part of that chemical stew that brews in our fetal development. Research has shown that there could be several causes including genes, brain structure and prenatal hormones. Suffice to say that it is NOT CHOSEN BEHAVIOUR.

          And I really don’t give a flying F@#$ about YOUR Christian values. As far as I’m concerned you use them to support some very un-Christian attitudes. You want to be the Ayatollah and tell everyone how to correctly live according to Christ… then go ahead, but I think I’ll make my own kool-aid.

          Poor poor baby… some Americans don’t want to celebrate Christmas? egads – lets put the lot of them in stocks and lynch all the non-believers.

          • gpumpkin62

            Rodin, you are a child with childish ways. You are resentful of God’s wishes for all of us. To see God is to behave just like him. I know you seek him or you wouldn’t be so contradicting of yourself. All that you have written here is a good teaching tool for all Christians, and a good reminder of who we could be. Everyone has choices, so do you. To be gay is a CHOICE, not biological, or by genes. Pick up a bible (not a guy), a read it with your heart. God will change you.

          • http://None lujean Frank

            Homosexuality is a choice lifestyle. It’s narcissistic in that one is only attracted to a reflection of oneself. It’s iconoclastic to our society and especially to vulnerable children who have enough to deal with today without trying to deal with two mommies and two daddies. A homosexual shrink said that he got out of that lifestyle when his own shrink told him one of the pair tries to be the opposite sex, masculine or femine, so why not just be normal and get a wife or a husband as in a real man, and a real woman? Instead of barnyard behavior. Children have even been told by perverted professionals that they are latent homos because of some childhood behaviour that is often normal with children, not a sign of any later perversion. Priests have been known to tell children that, and many priests were finally caught as pedophiles and homosexuals and the church had to pay millions to the abused children. There is a very dangerous situation today, children being kidnapped, abused, murdered, and it has a lot to do with the iconoclastic behaviour. Who cares what people do in their own home? But get out of the faces of the rest of us and children.

          • Steven

            I believe as you do. Keep up the good work!

          • Eve

            rodin it is chosen behavior. You make it sound like a gay person is a robot with a gene telling them what to do. lol..trust me I know on a personal level men and women leave their families of years because they want to ‘experience’ gay life. What it really boils down to is simply a sexual preference. That is all it is. Someone choses to have sex with a person of the same sex or of the opposite sex. It just isn’t what the majority want to have shoved into their faces and taught to their children. Do you think we should teach kids about other sexual preferences? Well, they are trying to teach them in grade school it is okay to have sex with someone of the same sex. How ironic. If they were teaching them about sex with a man and woman parents still would call them on it. And rightly so. As for Christmas…LOL…no one will take away our Christmas.

          • william

            (words removed for offensive content)Homosexuality just ain’t right. That is why there is such a controversy over it. Gay marriage has been put to the vote in 31 states, and has lost 31 times, by wide margins. What does that tell you.

          • gary

            Why is it that all you 3 dollar bills, try to find justification for your twisted ways? Face the facts, it is not a biological problem, it is a mental problem and needs to be treated as such.

            You all need to be rounded up and taken to internment camps and then treated to a nice breath of cyanide gas. WHy? Because you are all stinkin up the place, spreading disease and are a burden to our health care system.

          • Curious

            The brain has a substance no firmer then tofu ………. neurological pathways are formed & reformed faster then we can picture let alone count …… nothing too ‘substantial’ in this ‘evidence’.

          • http://savageheart.blogspot.com/ Silverdrake

            gary,

            Mental problem? Internment camps and cyanide gas? That’s really interesting, as I’ve seen leftists express the same diagnosis and solution for all Christians and conservatives. Care to take sauce for the goose as sauce for the gander, as well?

        • Marsha

          Darlene is so right. The Bible, whether you choose to believe it or not, is the handbook God gave us to live our lives. It has been around for 2000 years and nobody has ever disproved anything in it. It shows time and again that as people move further and further away from God, they become corrupt and accept evil for good and good for evil. That is where we are now. God says that homosexuality is a sin, a vile affection: “for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature” and likewise also the men.

          And for those of you who think we have evolved and the Bible is outdated, read the last few verses in the Bible. “For I testify unto every man that hears the words of the prophecy of this book, if any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

          People change, God doesn’t. His Word is the same yesterday, today and until the end of time. Do you want to see this nation fail? Turn from God and mighty will be its fall. Read the book!!!!!

          • http://fcernhart@yahoo.com Marianne to Marsha

            Dear Marsha,

            Thanks for your well said post. It was said that the founders
            gave us a Constitution that has in it the “seeds of its own destruction”. This is the kindness and tolerance of the true Christian! It has also been said that “tolerance is the final virtue of a dying society” which is only true if the overwhelming number
            of Christians in America do NOT live the faith they claim to have!

            Christians ARE SINNERS! We who ARE Christians KNOW that. That is why we DO WHAT WE DO.

          • Celia M

            Marsha, you are mistaken about the bible having nothing that has been disproven in it. Each translation and interpretation leaves much misinterpretation and error. As a former 30 year Presbyterian and former 10 year Mormon, now atheist, I realize that there is no sin but laws that protect our society.

            There are several scientific differences between homosexual and heterosexual men: ring fingers can be the same size while hetero men’s are larger, language tests show homosexual men communicate like women.

            I agree that sexual behavior should stay in private, but the government needs to stay out of private business!

          • Paterfamilias

            So what we’re saying is that a collection of folk tales that was only haphazardly codified in the 3rd century CE is relevant 2000 years later?
            Not a single one of the Gospel writers was alive at the same time Jesus was. Christianity as a religion/subset of Judaism was invented by Saul of Tarsus (a/k/a Paul). The idea of a “trinity” didn’t exist until the Council of Nicea. And Jesus’ birth, which probably happened around 2-3 BCE, was not regarded as miraculous when it happened, but only afterward when it was decided he was a deity. I’m beginning to wonder if any of the so-called “Christians” on this website know anything at all about the history of their religion.

          • frank54

            All I know is that when these homosexuals did not get their way on the Proposition 8, and it was defeated, they chose to be violent and destroy publc property and made threatenig calls, thay trashed a church, they deficated and urinated in peoples door ways who voted for Prop 8 and punched someone in a face, and made all kind of death threats, These people are supposed to be so tolerant and teach tolerance, yeah right give me a break, not to mention stupid Mass. schools teaching these kids to cross dress and being bisexual is good and transvestite are normal, this country is being destroyed by embracing perversion, and the peole in Washinton are just as much as fault cause they back all this crap, especially that Moron in the White House Oval Office. Please Gays And Lesibean’s Leave Our Chidren Alone, Or their will be consequences for your liberal actions.

          • http://savageheart.blogspot.com/ Silverdrake
        • Buckroo

          The hate from a non-beliver is understood.
          Hate from a bliever is non- Christian.
          The Bible states that world shell hate his people near the end. I’m sorry for those who chose to turn their backs.
          I do not, and can’t be their judge. We a simply to try to warn and pray for sinners.
          I’m glad I’m saved and sad their not.

        • keith

          your kind is bound for hell! and call me what you want,but i am a christian and your kind digust me.most of you are so demonically bound that you can’t morally see or spiritually dead to sense your hell bound and you’ll answer not only for your sickening perveted sodomistic practices,but for everyone you have infected with your perverseness,the hottest places in hell are awaiting you!

        • robert

          How come animals aren, t gay ,because its not normal,go to san.fran

          • http://savageheart.blogspot.com/ Silverdrake

            Animals are gay. Homosexual behavior has been found in 1500 species, including life bonding. If the moderators pass it, my comment just a few above yours will have several links documenting it.

        • Love is…

          Rodin: To suggest “Christianicide” is in and of itself hateful language. I am not sure how come it made it through this site’s filters. Anyway, my opinion on your comment to Darlene is the following. A true open mind is one that is comfortable with itself. Having the right to marry another of the same sex is already allowed, it is called a civil union. A marriage happens between a man and a woman. Yours in Christ.

        • rodin

          Hey “Love is….”

          Sorry you took my tongue-in-cheek Christianicide comments so seriously. Chill out dude…. there’s a whole whack of angry pissed off Christo-fascists telling me I’m going to hell and what a pervert I am. Now when a dog feels as much pain as these people appear to…. generally I consider that misery.

          So you want to love everyone– I got no objections. Welcome to the wonderful world of people with different ideas.

          You want to maintain a religious definition of an English word…. I’m probably OK with that too, but don’t be completely naive and suggest that half the sick f@#$s on this site would accept equal rights for a civil union as for a “marriage”. And that’s assuming that individual states will even recognize civil unions. They don’t all do that now. But equality does take time. It might even be still illegal in one or two states for a black man to marry a white woman. Or did we finally finish with that one.

          And as for your idiotic drivel about an open mind being comfortable with itself, are you totally insane or just stupid. The germans were quite comfortable with their minds while they stripped the jews of their property and rights in the 1930′s. Their concentration camp guards slept like babies while they gassed the millions. Your kin was quite comfortable hanging the witches of salem, while the southern lynchings of blacks was not thought of twice by the perpetrators. An open mind has NOTHING TO DO WITH COMFORT.

          Sorry to call a spade a spade. You should better watch how you wade into something that you’re ill prepared for. You can be mine in whatever religion you want.

          • Marie

            Wow. You sure are hateful…and full of it.
            You don’t scare Believers at all so you can shut your trap already. It’s your soul that is going to hell, not ours. You’ll learn about maggots the hard way. By your words, sounds like you live in it already. If you did honest research you’d learn that gays are 10x more likely to molest children. I wouldn’t even allow you around my kids.

          • Rodin

            Marie.. perhaps you could rattle off a few more STATISTICS while you’re at it. Maybe gays are 100 times more likely to cheat on their taxes or 25 times more likely to desert the army or 50 times more likely to tear the wings off of flies and throw kittens into the microwave. Despite the ludicrosity (sp) of the above statistics AND YOURS, you my dear are much more likely to support discrimination (possibly up to and including physical assault or worse) against an identifiable group of people than I am. BY YOUR OWN ADMISSION!!!!

          • Ned

            Rodin, I am so sorry that you have resorted to hating God in order to justify the path you have taken re: sexual pleasure. It is perfectly obvious to any person that our physical bodies were designed to enjoy the natural act of sex between a male and female in that the female anatomy was made to receive a man and the male anatomy was made to give to the female the gift of life as well as pleasure.

            The rectum of humans was made to expel waste from our bodies so that we could remain healthy. It was not made to take in anything!! Please consider these basic facts of nature. There are always exceptions to any norm but these exceptions can never be made to be the rule. If that were to happen, we would be on a severe path to the destruction of normalcy for the human race and that cannot be allowed. That would destroy norms that keep a society together and moving forward and that is not in God’s plan for His beloved creation. Please rethink your position because God truly loves you and will help you to get back on track as you lean on Him.

          • Abe

            I want to throw my uneducated two cents in. I really don’t mean to sound stupid, but my question is honest and not with a hidden agenda:
            If same-sex marriage is allowed, why not any person marry any person? Won’t the next step be to let any age marry? Couldn’t siblings marry? Would that be wrong? WHY? By your rationale, all are supposed to accept your opinion, so would you be willing to accept the father marrying his daughter? Better not say, “No”.
            Finally, why have marriage at all? If it is allowed by every one for any one, why marry at all? Heck, a guy could marry his college room mate simply because they get a tax break and then divorce when they graduate. You see, it’s the snowball effect that concerns me. Forget the religious issues.
            Sincerely…

          • http://savageheart.blogspot.com/ Silverdrake

            Abe,

            A) By postulating that allowing gay marriage will lead to allowing anyone to marry anyone, including children, siblings, etc., you’ve fallen into the slippery slope fallacy.

            B) Allowing immediate family members is forbidden for a very good reason. Besides the danger of genetic recessives, children need an environment where sex is not the basis of relationships in order to achieve emotional stability. That is why molested children are psychologically damaged.

            C) College students, and members of other social demographics, already marry for tax breaks and divorce afterwards.

          • Constance

            Believe me some were uncomfortable in Nazi Germany. They came up with the final solution because the soldiers who had to shoot each Jew in the head had to be given alcohol and couldn’t take it. They were only human, too. If they resisted, they were shot.

            I agree with Bill completely. There are too many unexplained miracles of people coming back from death and knowing what was going on around them while they were in a coma. Read the book by a little boy who almost died and met Jesus in heaven. There are two of them out. When Jesus raised his friend Lazarus from the dead He told him not to tell anyone where he went. God planted this primordial belief that there is more than just this world in our hearts. That is why so many different people believe in a God or gods. Jesus’s disciples stayed with Christianity after He died, rose from the dead and came back to tell them He was going to the Father. Why would so many people believe in Him if they were thrown to the lions and martyred in horrible ways? St. Stephen saw God and heaven while he was being stoned. He was praying and marveling at the place he would be in after he died. With God, the Son, God, the Father and God, the Holy Spirit. Too bad you don’t believe in God. BTW, there is no sex in Heaven. It is only here so people can go on. He loves everyone! But, you must follow Him like His friends did. Most of them suffered. I’ll suffer now because I am going against the world that reeks of sin. Our Lady says the sky is so black with Satan’s devils and a great war is going on between them and God’s angels. The supernatural is more real to me than this earth. The thereafter will be eternity, but now is just a few short nanoseconds compared to eternity. Choose wisely!

        • Ron

          Hell will be full of fools who cannot distinguish the real truth……

          • Constance

            Hell is terrible place where poor souls suffer in fire and worms forever! The worse death camp can’t be compared to hell. Once you are there you will be lost for all eternity. That is a very, very, very, very long time! Think about it.

        • Omar

          Rodin,
          Thanks for setting all these closet gays straight (forgive the pun). They all act as if God had written the Bible. Any person that thinks he or she has the ability to know what God want’s, is mentally ill. If God has the power to create everything around us, how can anyone in their right mind think they can understand or even communicate with the all mighty. On top of that if he created everything, then he designed homosexuals too and no one should have the right to question him/her it.

          • Jack

            Omar says the same old tired thing I have read a million times. Trying desperately blaming God for creating so called gay people! BULL S___T! In the beginning God made man and woman period he did not make Adam and Fred to bum F___ each other pervert!!! Once Adam and Eve sinned that is when all of creation was infected with sin! Queering off each other is sin pure and simple no matter how hard you try to color it nice. There is nothing nice about eating feces, spreading aids, molesting children, converting children to homosexuality, invading our schools to train children to be queer, bathroom sex, bath houses having multiple partners with strangers, public sex in California giving each other Blow J___s in public in front of families and cops, and the list goes on. Now you now try to tell me this is normal behavior??? Then you belong in the Nut Ward with a Frontal Lobotomy!

        • http://aol reo guy

          rodin,
          as usual, the sickies come out in these blogs. People who know what God wants are not mentally ill, they simply read the Bible. God speaks specifically about homosexuals and the mental sickness it is. Like most liberals, you open your mind so wide, all the crap falls in and you lose control. There’s another promise in the Bible from God, and that’s that EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW, AND EVERY ONE WILL CONFESS THAT HE IS LORD. The idea that God designed homosexuals…..does that mean He designed child molestors, and those who murder and rape ? Of course He didn’t, those things are the choice of the sick minded, just like homosexuals. It’s not natural, it has zero value in our sociaty and talk about hate, these people spit and sneer at the thought someone doesn’t accept or agree with their sickness. Face it, those of us with standards are the majority. God Bless

        • rodin

          I’m sorry reo guy…. the only sickies that I see are the ones that want to shove a fairy tale down everyone elses throat. I defy you to show how any liberals HATE christians. We think they are misguided, easily led, less than intellectual, certainly not egalitarian in their thinking and some are hateful. They and you would treat a group of law-abiding peaceful people with disdain and disrespect. That’s not being very nice. Liberals on the other hand would let Christians believe in whatever tooth fairy they want to as long as they don’t force their silly little religion on the rest of us. We can live in peace with you but it appears you can’t do the same.

          • BARBIE

            Dear Rodin, You remind me of the guy tied down across a railroad tracks. A train is coming and about to grid him into dirt but he looks at it oh so bravely and screams at it and says “you can’t hurt me, I don’t believe in you.” Needless to say the guy was ground into dirt. It is the same with you God and your soul. You may not believe in him but you none the less you will answer to him. Dear child of God, the train is closer than we know and screaming “I don’t believe in you” is not going to change the outcome. Please rethink your life. Is it worth losing your soul over? Sin can not go through the gates of heaven no matter how much he loved you. It would not be heaven if sin were allowed in. Your are too precious to him. He does not want to lose you. He had plans for you. Please don’t let that happen. I am not any better than the worse sinner in the world. But by Gods forgiveness through Jesus grants me forgiveness. But if I abused that forgiveness he will cast me aside as a lost soul and I too will be ground into dirt. But in this case being ground into dirt would be a blessing compared to what is prepared for those who know not God and Jesus. Eternal punishment is waiting for you and me if we try to fake our way to God. He’s a heart knower and cannot be fooled.. Please at least think about this. Your very soul depends on it.

          • http://savageheart.blogspot.com/ Silverdrake

            Unfortunately, Rodin, you’re wrong. Liberals will not allow Christians to exercise their beliefs. They already do not allow it. Every time some liberal/atheist brings a lawsuit against a Christian symbol on a city seal, in a cemetery, on a town hall lawn, in a city park, at a school or public event, they are violating the Christians’ right to free exercise of religion. I have seen innumerable liberals/atheists who have stated that they would involuntarily commit every Christian (and every other religious believer) to mental hospitals (or internment camps) to cure their “mental disorder” of religious belief.

            So please speak only for yourself in regard to tolerance, as many of your fellow travelers have expressed the diametric opposite.

        • Howard

          Sorry Omar but you have a gotten it all wrong. God didn’t design homosexuals, they are a perversion of what God created. You guys just don’t want to believe god’s word because if you do then you are condemned. But it really doesn’t make any difference whether you believe god’s word or not, because your believing or your unbelief doesn’t alter the facts.

        • rodin

          Howard – you are confusing beliefs and faith with FACT. At least learn to use the English language with proper clarity. Just because you want to be a dumb F@#K and believe in a non-existent tooth fairy, doesn’t make it any more factual. If you get 500 million dumb F@#ks together, you haven’t increased the belief’s factuality or credibility one iota. If dumb f@#ks want to belief in a faith for 2000 years, it still doesn’t make it factual.

          Grow up and start using your brain or join the minions with lower IQ’s deigned to be led by their nostrils before the latest prophets and tyrants.

          I forgot to mention – I’m sure I will be slammed as a HATER for the above comments. However, calling you a dumb F@#k is not hateful, merely factual.

          • http://none Grandma

            Rodin, I am a Christian, however I didn’t become a Christian until I was 43 years old. My husband was 44 years old. I came home from a Bible Study, and was working on my lesson for that day, when my husband came home from work, and asked me if I was going to study that stuff again. At this point, I looked at him and told him there had to be something more. I was playing my cousins album, The Starlighters, and they were singing, Is Your Name Written In The Lamb’s Book of Life? My husband left the room and I didn’t know what I had done, so I followed him to our bedroom and he was on his knees beside our bed. I knelt beside him. I had a picture of Praying hands above our bed. All we did was cry, we never said a word, but when we got up it was like I was walking 3 feet off the floor. I hear you and others saying bad things about my Lord and Savior, and I feel sorry for you. If you ever experience the love of God, you will never be the same. Since 1995, God has seen us through my heart attack and the death of our 41 year old daughter, at an explosion at a youth camp, which her and her husband were managing. In 2004, my husband had a valve replaced, which he was born with. His surgeon just shook his head and said he didn’t know why he didn’t die at the age of 50, as most do.I told him it was God, and he agreed with me. In 2005, I was diagnosed with ovarian cancer, and started treatments of large doses of chemo, which really was hard on me.I’m still getting check-ups, but haven’t had chemo for 5 months. My husband went through treatments for prostate cancer. During all of this time, we trusted God, and He never failed us once. Yes Rodin, Jesus is real, and yes I have had healings that only He could have done, according to my doctors. Also, do you know something else? God loves you just as much as He does me. Have you ever read the Bible? It wasn’t written by man, but by man under the leading of the Holy Spirit. God’s Word is true. Would you do me a favor? Get a Bible and read the Book of John, with an open mind and also an open heart. I don’t even know why I started reading these blogs, as I had a lot of things to do, but I feel God led me here so I could reach out to you and others like you. Christians should pray for those who are lost, as time is running down. Jesus will come to take His children home. Every knee shall bough and every tongue confess that Jesus is Lord. I would rather be on the Lord’s side when that time comes, as Jesus will say, “well done my good and faithful servant. We will all stand before God on the final Judgement Day. Those who know Him will be with Him in Glory, but the lost will be told, ” part from me, as I never knew you, and they will be cast into hell, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Satan will never honor those who worked for him, as he will hate them, even if they did his bidding. Life is a choice. We either choose to follow the Lord, or we choose to follow satan. You say God created homosexuality, but as one other person said, they are perverted, as they chose to follow satan. We are praying for you and the others. God does love you and wants you to repent of your sins. Please read the Book of John, for this 76 year old grandma. As I have written this, I can feel the Holy Spirit all over me. God bless you and may you feel His blessings one day. Time is winding down, as the Bible lines up with the things that are going on today. Get ready to go with Jesus. We will be praying for you. Grandma

        • Greg

          You are suggesting killing Christians (“Christiancide”) and you think they are hateful??? You sound like a Nazi who hates Christians instead of Jews. May God have mercy on your soul. For the record – I’m a Jew.

        • Travis

          LOOSER!!!

        • Travis

          You say militery are three times more likley to sexualy assault children,then in the same sentence state you don’t know if it’s true, so why did you ask “did you know” as if you had facts?
          P.S.- You just suggested killing someone, not even for having an oppinion, but for being a christian you are the hateful one (WORD REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT) & you should seek counciling.

        • rodin

          Travis

          You should go back and finish elementary school. I know that kindergarten was good for your parents but seriously if you can’t read beyond the words, like “satire”, you have no reason to be at a keyboard in front of the public. And just to be absolutely clear to the rest of the troglodyte trash that survived the most recent trailer attacking tornadoes, I DO NOT ADVOCATE KILLING ANYONE, INCLUDING CHRISTO-FASCISTS. I made the mistake of thinking there might actually be intelligent educated people on this website that could read and comprehend beyond 6th grade.

        • dena

          Talk about foam coming out of Darlene’s mouth and her ‘hate’ language, what did you just say about Christianicide. You are a hypocrite. Darlene read from the Gospel. Look, I am a lesbian, very conservative, but I feel it should be at the State level. I don’t condone gay marriage. I know homosexuality, just like any sex outside of marriage is against God. But stop your Christ hate.

        • rodin

          First of all if you would have read any of my subsequent comments, you would have seen my comments were tongue in cheek. Unlike the Christians on this website, I have no ill will towards them. They can live their live completely peacefully if they choose. However, when they inflict violence in the name of their religion, then I have a problem.

          Now second of all, as for my Christ hate as you so eloquently put it, I have no hate, merely a defense against being attacked FIRST by the Christians. When people steep so low as to use a fairy tale to try and justify public policy and condoned hatred, instead of using logic and values of common respect, then I will attack them back.

          Seems to me you have a schizophrenic problem of identity. Who are you really and why won’t you stand up for your own sisters that want and need protection. Your values seem to be a little self-serving.

          • Curious

            Hmmmmmmmmmmm ………. “Me thinks the gentle man doth protest too much”

        • BOE

          Rodin….you are the one living in misery and probably have infected other with your sick behavior.

        • keith

          the only reason you stay on this sight other than when your (WORDS REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT) is to annoy anyone who is’nt perverted as you,you do nothing but spread your (WORD REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT) twisted immoral unnatural rheteric and skewed ”logic” to everyone here and as you like a blowfly won’t seem to go away,you delight in trying to squash everybody who doe’snt have your nasty slavering desire to do whats clearly unnatural and spew hate to all,you delight in telling EVERYONE else their intolerance,the only HATEFUL INTOLERANCE IS CONSISISTANTLY COMING FROM YOU!
          WHO’S GOT THE PROBLEM???????

        • BARBIE

          You my friend are just a hate filled evil spirited person. You must be a very miserable human being. How do you live with yourself. There is hope for you if you just open your heart and mind.–

        • BARBIE

          YOU GO, WE SHOULD GET A “CHRISTIAN HATE CRIME” law on the books and let them see how it feels. We are getting tired of of those cry babies. We should write to ACLJ and see how to do just that. The Muslims are trying to get a “Islam or Muslim hate crime law on the books. What do you guys think?

        • Deano2009

          I don’t know whether that’s foam or what comming out of your mouth aimed at Darlene, but your words seem to describe yourself, Rodin. Did you write that while looking in a mirror?

        • Dan, Phoenix

          Gays wouldn’t care about marriage if there wasn’t a tax shelter for married couples. There should not be tax advantages for anyone, or any group of people. The Constitution says that, to bad our elected officials don’t follow it’s rules anymore. The tax laws are hypocritical. We need a fair tax, not a progressive tax, abolish the IRS, allow legal rights for gay couples, and all would be fair for everyone.

        • Free Mountaineer

          There is nothing hateful about what Darlene said. She is right that freedom to do wrong is self-destructive. She has every right to boldly and politely state her views that she thinks will be of benefit to others and help them toward true happiness. If you call evil “good” you are eventually going to call good “evil”.

        • araceli

          Rodin,
          John 3:16 teaches us: “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Christ and christians DO NOT HATE we love God and people ALL we want is to follow Jesus and God CONDEMS HOMOSEXULALITY. This is why we are against it and if you believe we are wrong than you think God is wrong because we are follower not haters.

        • http://yahoo zappo777

          They say ignorance is bliss, I say we as a people need to wake up and stand up to the Truth. The truth is : God makes the rules whether you believe or not. #2-The rights come from our Creator (Province) not your selfish whining…#3at a Gay convention a man came out to share on national radio 5 points regarding the gay agenda that was promoted at the convention—–#1—Gays are at war with GOD.(because God condemns their lifestyle–period) #2 Gays are at war with the Church (Church promote Faith in God regarding gay lifestyle as an Abomination) #3 Gays want to promote their lifestyle as normal and acceptable so they place their people in Courts, (Judge walker in Ca., Jennings in education Czar-picked by Obama) to force their perversion to brainwash kids minds in schools across Country–HAPPENING NOW!!! #4 To promote equal respect by legalizing Gay Marriage—HAPPENING NOW!!! To feel Equal(very delusional)#5 TO Tell people That GOD owes Gays and Lesbians an apology for destroying Sodom and Gomorrah….When that happens I believe GODS’ Judgment will be unleashed—The Truth is: God was more angry towards the people who supported the perversion than the people practicing it…WAKE UP AMERICA—This movement needs to be stopped and sent into hospital for mental help—- Truth is YOU DON”T SUPPORT WHAT GOD CONDEMNS IF YOU HAVE FAITH IN GOD–otherwise your Faith is not TRUE.IF you LOVE GOD YOU HATE EVIL!!! YOU LOVE SIN THEN YOU HATE GOD..The ABSOLUTE TRUTH!!!

          • http://yahoo zappo777

            zappo777 says:
            September 14, 2010 at 8:24 pm ADDING TRUTH WITH SCRIPTURE

            They say ignorance is bliss, I say we as a people need to wake up and stand up to the Truth. The truth is : God makes the rules whether you believe or not. #2-The rights come from our Creator (Province) not your selfish whining…#3at a Gay convention a man came out to share on national radio 5 points regarding the gay agenda that was promoted at the convention—–#1—Gays are at war with GOD.(because God condemns their lifestyle–period) #2 Gays are at war with the Church (Church promote Faith in God regarding gay lifestyle as an Abomination) #3 Gays want to promote their lifestyle as normal and acceptable so they place their people in Courts, (Judge walker in Ca., Jennings in education Czar-picked by Obama) to force their perversion to brainwash kids minds in schools across Country–HAPPENING NOW!!! #4 To promote equal respect by legalizing Gay Marriage—HAPPENING NOW!!! To feel Equal(very delusional)#5 TO Tell people That GOD owes Gays and Lesbians an apology for destroying Sodom and Gomorrah….When that happens I believe GODS’ Judgment will be unleashed—The Truth is: God was more angry towards the people who supported the perversion than the people practicing it…WAKE UP AMERICA—This movement needs to be stopped and sent into hospital for mental help—- Truth is YOU DON”T SUPPORT WHAT GOD CONDEMNS IF YOU HAVE FAITH IN GOD–otherwise your Faith is not TRUE.IF you LOVE GOD YOU HATE EVIL!!! YOU LOVE SIN THEN YOU HATE GOD..The ABSOLUTE TRUTH!!!—-THIS IS TRUTH—
            18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hinder the truth in unrighteousness;
            19 because that which is known of God is manifest in them; for God manifested it unto them.
            20 For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity; that they may be without excuse:
            21 because that, knowing God, they glorified him not as God, neither gave thanks; but became vain in their reasonings, and their senseless heart was darkened.
            22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
            23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God for the likeness of an image of corruptible man, and of birds, and four-footed beasts, and creeping things.
            24 Wherefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts unto uncleanness, that their bodies should be dishonored among themselves:
            25 for that they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
            26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile passions: for their women changed the natural use into that which is against nature:
            27 and likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another, men with men working unseemliness, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was due.
            28 And even as they refused to have God in their knowledge, God gave them up unto a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not fitting;
            29 being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
            30 backbiters, hateful to God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
            31 without understanding, covenant-breakers, without natural affection, unmerciful:
            32 who, knowing the ordinance of God, that they that practise such things are worthy of death, ————-not only do the same, but also consent with them that practise them.———-real sad Harvey!!! try to learn this lesson Romans chapter 1
            Easier translation—-#32 32 who, knowing the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but also approve of those who practice them. If you believe in God –you do not do this period.

        • Mrrobinson

          LOL…well said. When punctuation suffers as it does in so many of these posts – you begin to feel your IQ drop. You can imagine the dialogue sounding as it would passing through their less than plentiful teeth.
          Poor Republican party has such a collection of these folks. Pretty pitiful.

        • JOSH

          Rodin, I feel very sorry for you, because you would say the same thing to Jesus, even if He were standing in front of you, warning you.

        • JOSH

          It’s sad that you consider what is true to be ‘hate’ speech.

        • Mrrobinson

          Pretty hard to argue against this young man:

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSQQK2Vuf9Q&feature=player_embedded

      • John S

        OH DARLEEEEENE
        I can’t believe what you just wrote.
        First, this blog is about how the topic of gay marriage had divided the Republican party.
        While staying on the subject it has drifted off a bit to the right of gays to marry which is fine. But lets look at what your saying.

        YOUR QUOTE
        This is us today . . . we will not be governed except by laws that are to our destruction . . . for example:(1) Abortion, (2)same sex marriage, speech (hate) and gun (safety) control and many other such actions which take our freedom. FREEDOM is a gift from God that allows for our progression, but FREEDOM must be exercised within certain boundaries (laws, commandments). Many, if not most, people desire to set their own boundaries to include their disobedience (sins), rather than conform to the law and order than brings growth and peace. We are choosing to be governed by laws that will act to our destruction
        REPLY

        Abortion.
        Darlene you can have 20 babies if you want. You NEVER see any of the people your accusing running up to your face when you go visit your Dr. screaming PLEASE ABORT YOUR BABY, THINK ABOUT DARLENE YOU MUST ABORT YOUR BABY, THE WORLD IS OVER POPULATED AS IT IS, GET RID OF IT.

        We wouldn’t think of violating your RIGHT to have as many kids as you want even though we have to pay for them in many indirect ways.
        However, many of your folks don’t think twice about hanging out at a family planning clinic harassing women, screaming at them to stop what your doing.
        They get up in your face and chant and scream and block the path to the front doors.
        Some of them think they have the right commit murder in cold blood on doctors if that makes their point. NOW HOW IS VIOLATING WHO’S RIGHTS?

        SAME SEX MARRIAGE
        If 2 consenting adults find love and happiness in marriage to gather, and that fulfills their life, how could you possibly object.
        Your marriage is what you have make it. No matter who or how many loving adult couples decide their life would be better and more complete married so what.

        In all the countries, and now states that have OK ed gay marriage, the sky has not fallen. Their economy’s have improved, and nothing negative has come of it, only good.

        They want marriage to be happy and complete.They also feel they should benefit legally just as you do.
        Imagine, you have spent your life buying a home,building a finical portfolio for your retirement, and all of a sudden your partner dies.
        I don’t care if it took 40 or 50 years of hard work to get where you are, if he died and you were gay one of two things are going to happen.

        The state of federal government is going to be knocking at your door, demand a horrific tax on anything he left you. Why? because you are not related to him, therefore you owe the state a huge inheritance tax, even though you paid for what you have. You built your life together.

        The second thing that is probably going to happen if the tax man doesn’t get there first, is his relatives who dis owned the both of you years ago because you didn’t fit their personal or religious criteria, will be knocking at the door demanding their share of what he left you.
        After all they are the next of kin and you are not related to him because you are not married.

        You have no right to his personal savings, social security or pension. Why? because you could not get married if you wanted to.

        There are those that fight tooth and nail to stop you from the very same things they are privy to, because some how you don’t fall into their moral or religious perimeters. They don’t even know you, ..doesn’t matter your gay and that’s all they need to know.

        SPEECH
        I’m not sure exactly what you mean here by the way you wrote it, but here is my take on it. You wrote speech (hate). If you mean you should be able to speak hateful things about other people, there is a consequence for it.
        Words do matter. If you walk up to a black person and use the (N) word that is not tolerated, and it shouldn’t be.
        If you approach a gay person and scream fagot and beat them down, that is a hate crime. Why? because you approached them with out provocation other than the fact they are gay.
        The law works both ways. If a gay person approaches a straight person using a derogatory word and accosted them that too is a hate crime, because the assault was for no other reason then their sexual orientation.
        Parents teachers and pastors, should be examples to their children, and not encourage this hateful trait in their children, because that is where a lot of this comes from. Children ain’t born prodigious their taught to be that way.

        GUN SAFETY
        4000 soldiers were killed in the war since it started what a shame, what a waste, but lets hope they did not die in vain.
        Last year in the USA 29,569 died at the end of a gun…and for what?
        Last year in Japan 19 people died at the end of a gun.
        Last year in Canada 179 people died at the end of a gun.
        Last year in the UK 73 people died at the end of a gun

        NUF SAID

        • http://donthaveone Mark

          I understand what your saying, but to bunch it all together in a nutshell, someone that kills someone with a gun, gets their day in front of God. Someone who helps those all their life gets their day in front of God. Someone who selfishly chooses to have 20 kids that they cant possible take care of, or gets help to take care of them, gets their day with God. Someone who choses to violate his man friend by shoving his rod up his anus, gets to have his day in front of God. So in the end, it all gets evened out, we all get to be held accountable for what we do, good or bad in Gods eyes. None of it matters how we see it, for there is a way that seems right to man, and it is the way of death. What matters is the way God sees it. So then all through our lives, if we take a moment before we act on things, to think about what God might think about it, I think the world would be a lot better place. I mean if a young guy is getting ready to get some young girl naked and have sex with her, if him and her would just stop for a minute, and think, “What would God think about this”, there would be a lot of unwanted pregnancies, venereal diseases and suicides go way, just from thinking about it for a minute before you act. I would hope the same would apply when a guy is getting ready to shove his penis up his buddies ass, that he would stop and think, “What would God think about this”. The world could be a lot better place, thats all Im saying.

        • Valverde

          Oh, crap John, can’t you do something besides rant. Reread what Darlene said and drop your biases and you will be a better man for it.

        • cr747

          Sounds like you got your figures for gun related issues from 60 minutes. How many guns kept other people from rape, murder, etc huh? better get your figures straight before loading mouth, your jaws are liable to explode.

        • cr747

          Rodin Sounds like you got your figures for gun related issues from 60 minutes. How many guns kept other people from rape, murder, etc huh? better get your figures straight before loading mouth, your jaws are liable to explode.

        • cr747

          JohnSounds like you got your figures for gun related issues from 60 minutes. How many guns kept other people from rape, murder, etc huh? better get your figures straight before loading mouth, your jaws are liable to explode.

        • Denise

          Get a Bible and read in the New Testament1Romans18-32,Leviticus18:22,and1Corinthians6.God sent his son,JesusChrist to die and rise again to give everyone salvation.We are all sinners.No not one is righteous.That means we all have to repent.I was 16 years old when I heard on the news about men in Mass General Hospital being quaranteened because of an immune deficiency.They suffered terrible deaths because they had annal sex.I don’t hate gay people but I know what God says about their fate if they refuse to repent and turn away from their homosexual lifestyle.God created you to glorify him.But you insist on doing what God hates.God have mercy on your soul.God says he will allow the body to be destroyed to save the soul.

        • Ron

          We are duty bound to warn others of impending disaster, this abomination called gay whatever is vulgar, nasty, and most of all…sin…in it’s worst form, We don’t hate the people, just the sin…..

        • http://aol reo guy

          John,

          You are clearly one of the sheep. Your arguments have zero value, take abortion for instance, yes, we’re talking about the selfish, unexusable killing of another human, AND YOU LIBERALS EXPECT US TO PAY FOR YOUR RIGHT WITH OUR TAX DOLLARS, then if that’s not bad enough, YOU THEN WANT TO PASS LAWS SO YOU CAN CON OUR 10 YEAR OLD AND 12 YEAR OLD DAUGHTERS INTO HAVING ABORTIONS WITHOUT US KNOWING!
          One thing stands true with the liberal sheep, they get sicker and sicker in their thinking.

        • http://savageheart.blogspot.com/ Silverdrake

          JohnS, you were doing very well until you got down to “gun safety.” Then you totally screwed the pooch.
          1) You have to adjust for per capita, as all those countries you listed have much lower populations than the US does.
          2) You ask “for what?” at the end, then do not answer it. A) How many of those deaths were the result of police, self-defense, accident, etc.? B) How many other deaths resulted from the same causes using different implements?
          3) As those other countries do not respect their citizens’/subjects’ human right to armed self-defense, you have to include all other methods of murder/suicide/police/self-defense/accidental killings, or you’re making the hypostatization of blaming an object (the gun) for a person’s actions.

          • http://savageheart.blogspot.com/ Silverdrake

            Oops, my bad. Meant personification, not hypostatization. That’s what I get for posting at 0420.

        • Mrrobinson

          Very well said John.

      • Peter Melville

        History is a great teach Darlene. It does instruct those who in their heart have a desire to learn. Nothing that I said earlier comments (in general) , do I consider profound or deep. Probably better described as a poor attempt on my part to talk about something much greater than I and something for which I have no experience.

        • Andrew Klein

          Peter is right, History is a great teach but everything John says about gay marriage is BS. Here’s a History lesson, the founding fathers founded America as “one nation under God”. This phrase forever links our government to the Bible and if I remember correctly, Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed by God. Don’t get me wrong, marriage should not be denied to any human being, as long as it’s between a man and woman. Otherwise it is called a sin.

          • http://n/a Winnie

            Andrew. “The founding fathers founded America as “one nation under God”. America had already been founded hundreds of years before your founding fathers by the American Natives. Keep your facts straight. Our Belief of our Creator is that all human beings living on Earth are the most sacred and all should be treated with respect. The two-spirited people were unique and were not treated with hatred. Our Creator gave us the greatest gift of all, the freedom to choose. Our Children were the most important along with our Elders. No one person was given more respect than those who took care of the children and the Elders. I believe Jesus walked that path as well. He did not tell anyone to go into a temple an give praise to the Almighty God. And finally, Jesus said, “for whatsoever you do unto others, you have done unto me”. The American Natives walked with Jesus long before He was born. Marriage belongs to those who believe in living together in love and respect. Take a good look at the number of divorces in the world and how it affects our young people. It takes two to make marriage work. Who the two people are is none of my business or yours. God bless and take good care of your spiritual self.

      • Andrew Klein

        Amen.

        • rodin

          Andrew, you are mistaken and deluded on several levels. First you may correctly state that we are a nation under God, but we don’t tell anybody which god or which interpretation or who is the arbiter of that god. We expressly allow freedom of religion so that we don’t mix up secular law and the “sins” of Christo-fascists. You can call anything you want a sin…. I don’t care…. just don’t mix your version of sinning with society’s secular laws. The bible or any interpretation of it should never be used to justify hate and bigotry in secular laws. We tried that before when we used to argue that blacks were not part of god’s creation and could not be entitled to the same rights. We specifically excluded them from marrying whites.

          Sorry, but your version of god doesn’t have a lot of credibility in the love thy neighbor department.

          • keith

            ho-humm,blah blah blah blah blah blah…..

        • Smilee

          Andrew Klien

          The phrase “One Nation under God” was added to our pledge of allegiance during the Eisenhower administration in the 1950′s not by our founding fathers.

        • Susan

          Rodin,

          Stop trying to compare civil rights with gay rights. It’s not the same and Christians are not racists.

          We’re not calling anything we want to a sin – it’s clearly stated in the Bible what is and what is not a sin, and homosexuality is a sin. That’s not being hateful, it’s stating a fact.

          Our country was founded on Christian values and the majority of us are not going to allow you and your un-Christian values to change that.

          If anyone is spewing hate, you are. Read what you have written.

          • Roger

            Homosexuality may be a sin in your bible but so is adultry, eating shell fish and pork none are illegal nor are they particularly condemned. Why pick on homosexuality?

          • Menon

            Susan, without trying to sound ignorant, what is the difference between gay rights and civil rights?
            Are homosexuals not humans? Because I believe thats what you’re saying.
            Listen. all of you. I’m straight as a roman road, although I am not a Christian per-sey I have been brought up a Christian from the age of four. But think about it, would god really approve denying gay people marriage when its for love? There is nothing different about a Man/Woman relationship to a Man/Man relationship. Well. Apart from the obvious. It seems to me that no matter what religion you are, it boils down to the same three things.
            Love
            Faith
            Being a good person to others around you.
            Now, Surely if you respect these true rules, and act as a good person for the majority of your life, and look after others, and fight for what you believe in, without trying to impinge, or force your beliefs on others then you’re going to make heaven, and god will love you. That means not gay bashing. that means accepting everyone, Gay, Straight, black, white, yellow, as long as they too are a good person, think about it, whats this acheiving? really? apart from spreading a little bit more hate in the world… can’t you all see that? or is it just me :/
            Peace And Love

        • http://aol reo guy

          Hey Andrew, you are right! Liberals like rodin have no valid argument, so like good sheep, they always run to the, don’t hate, and hate is not a family value garbage. What they don’t know is we don’t hate the people, just the destructive act and how it effects America and our families.

          I copyrighted the following saying and am completing a book with the same title…”Tolerance is for the Weak……..Compassion the Strong” Non-Christians lack the ability to understand this basic concept. I am completing against allowing the sickness of homosexuals to marry and adopt children, it’s a destructive, hateful lifestyle, however, if I knew of a person WHO CHOSE to live that sick lifestyle and as I was driving home in a major rain storm, and saw them trying to change a tire on their car or bring physically attacked, I would jump in, in a second to help him or her. This is something the liberal sheep mindset doesn’t have the ability to understand, you can hate an act and not the person.

          • Mrrobinson

            or…..you could let others live as they wish to live and quit worrying about their personal adult lives or to who or who not they’re married. Enjoy your religious beliefs, know that those beliefs are not for everyone and stop expecting laws to be based on a 2,000 year old document written by desert nomads full of inaccuracies and edited history.

      • Denise

        God has already stated that he will burn up the earth,sky and planets.This is due to sin.That’s in the bible also that because of sin the land turns into a desert.

        • Mrrobinson

          or it could happen because someone who believes like this has their hand waaay to close to the nuclear missile buttons. So much prophecy is self-fulfilling prophecy.

      • Jack

        I wasn’t sure what type of site this was b/c articles are so well written. However, the comments are very enlightening. All I want to say is that as a Christian, I MUST FREELY SUBMIT myself to the will of GOD. I should not be legislated by a government to do so. Women in America could submit to God tomorrow and end abortion and the law would be meaningless. GOD asks that we CHOOSE to LOVE him and CHOOSE LIFE. GOD does not require that we use MAN’S LAWS to do his will. His will, should be as the disciple wrote, “thy words have I hidden in my heart, that I might no sin against thee.” WRITE YOUR MORAL MARRIAGE LAWS in your HEART. If we are going to be Strict Constructionist, I WOULD MAKE DIVORCE ILLEGAL AS WELL.

        • Mrrobinson

          Very well said!! If you’re not going to outlaw divorce…then don’t tell people who they can’t marry. (and if I hear one more time about people wanting to marry some kind of animal compared to someone wanting to join their live in society with another HUMAN I’m going to scream!)

      • Mike

        Amazing! Somehow Libertarians and Conservatives forget about FREEDOM as soon it goes against whichever religion or belief system that they personally hold dear.

        You have your belief system. You are free to practice it. Thank God there is freedom of religion in this country.

        NOBODY IS ASKING WHETHER YOU CONDONE THE PRACTICE!!
        (I personally think it is disgusting)
        This is a FREE country. You can marry who you want, or at least you should be able to. Let’s leave the gay people alone to do their gay, gay, gay things and concentrate on something important….. like all the FREEDOMS we are losing every time we turn around.

        • phred

          Mike you said that “you Libertarians and Conservatives” are for freedom for everybody until it goes against whatever your religious practice may be.
          To a large extent that’s true. But, I have been a libertarian since the 70s. I grew up in a Christian household. Early on I saw that the “adults” who pushed their religious beliefs on everybody really had none of the answers to questions I had.
          All that being said, I truly DO believe in the rights of ALL hu-man beings. In the liberties and freedoms for ALL. And I keep having to fight with these idiots who think that the ONLY religious views that have viability, AND the onlty people who have religious freedom in the United States ARE the Christians. The rest of us can, simply, go to hell.
          The fact is, whether one is hermaphroditic, gay, heterosexual, or even NONsexual, they/we/us are still hu-mans! As such, we have the rights to our own beliefs, thoughts, spiritual pursuits, likes, dislikes, food preferences, vehicle preferences, whatever!
          As for gays vs. heteros—isn’t the whole, and important thing, LOVE? So, if two men want to be marriage partners, so what? Or two women? Or the farmer and his backyard oak tree?
          But, A certain group of Christians can’t allow that, for (say this to yourself in a deep, roaring, thunderous, echoing voice) “We have read what God hath written, and we know what he wanteth from each of us. And you must follow exactly as we believe or we shall kill you– in the name of God, of course!”
          Anyway, at least I wanted you to know that there is at least ONE libertarian who believes, truly believes that we ALL HAVE THE SAME RIGHTS.
          ‘Course, then, I am not a Christian, and that helps. And only a loud, few Christians believe that they have everything exactly right, therefore, they have the right to dictate to everybody else!
          Sorry I came so late to this discussion, but I was dealing with a couple from here on a thread about the “War on Christmas”, and I see that they are here as well!

          • Curious

            When we are able to say: ……….. “Our parents did the best that they could do with that which they knew @ the time” …….. We will find ourselves quite grown up & ……….. quite, therefore, able to see beyond our otherwise selfish & self centered preschool if not infantile ways.;)

        • http://savageheart.blogspot.com/ Silverdrake

          Amazing! Somehow Liberals and Progressives ALSO forget about FREEDOM as soon it goes against whichever religion or belief system that they personally hold dear. Including such anti-FREEDOM beliefs as anthropogenic global warming, gun control, and “freedom from religion.”

      • Marie

        My own father came out in 1991, took his innocent children to drag shows, told us God was gay and that we were gay too and allowed his sons to be molested by homosexual friends. The consequences of his actions have given him AIDS, broke the hearts of his children and wife (a lot of them hid behind wives and husbands already), sent 4 out of 5 of us into mental institutions from the confusion and despair and the innocent will suffer immeasurably by these perverted people. NO CHILD should be exposed to this disgusting display and they will pay on judgement day, especially the one’s who claim to be God’s children who support it to be “politically correct”. WE are called to love them but to NEVER AGREE WITH HOMOSEXUALITY. Cheney has bended to show his love for his daughter but he will be held accountable as she will, just as my own father will.I feel sorry for the kid she’s had. If he decides (there is NO gay gene) to be straight, he will lust for the same sex as his own mothers and that is trauma I’ve lived through. Wake up AMERICA.
        Good think I have book coming out soon to tell the truth. I agree with you Darlene.

        • Rodin

          I’m sorry for your pain. However, you seem to now want to cause more for others.

          • keith

            AIN’T THAT THE POT CALLING THE KETTLE BLACK!

        • Beachangel

          Your father was a pervert. Not all gays are like that. They do not force themselves on others especially children. Your thinking is not normal to condemn all gays because of your father.

          • Mrrobinson

            agreed…sorry your dad was a freak, but don’t legislate laws that interfere with my family because your father was repressed and finally let it out abnormally. Anyone who allows their children to be ‘molested’ is in dire need of help.

        • http://savageheart.blogspot.com/ Silverdrake

          Marie, I’m sorry you experienced that, but what your father did was no different from a straight man dragging his kids to strip joints and porn shops, and allowing them to be molested by hetero pedophiles. Should a child of such a father then blame and hate all straights?

      • guy

        As far as God being discussed by the Godless.(. the fool has said in his heart, “there is no God”.)
        Homosexuals have rampant depression, alcoholism, drug abuse and suicide. Not to mention more sexually transmitted diseases. Come up with your own word to describe your right the be perverts in a civil union but marriage is between a man and woman.

        • Curious

          Not to mention 50-3,000 “life partners” ………. let see in was that in a year on average? …………. how confusing is that?

        • Mrrobinson

          these adjectives, all of which are symptoms of repression, can be attributed to victims of abuse. Let’s try minding our own business and not ridiculing these people for something they have no say over and we’ll see more of them live healthy lives. Stop grandstanding and feeling superior to these people whom you have no idea what circumstances under which they live.

      • http://None Joan

        The Biblical answer to our cultural devide needs to be published far and wide and I applaud your opinion. God’s word always tempers justice with mercy. I feel most of us agree that gays deserve equal protection under the law as American citizens, taxpayers, and voters. Marriage is a life covernant of a union between a man and a woman which is santified by God. While God cannot sanctify a union between others (than a man and a woman) does not mean that he would be against legal protections for the partnership covenant between two same sex people desiring to formalize the status of their relationship. The Domestic Partnership Act which has been legalized in California can be structured to provide the legal protections the G&L’s want and need as citizens without violating the sanctity of tradtional marriage, confusing our young people, and compromising our time honored traditions of morality. We need to listen to their pleas and find legitimate ways to address the injustices they suffer.

        • http://savageheart.blogspot.com/ Silverdrake

          That will work only if those domestic partnerships are given the same force and breadth of legal protection that marriage has. And as history has shown time and again, “separate but equal” never is.

          • http://savageheart.blogspot.com/ Silverdrake

            And as for God sanctifying it, it all depends on your concept of God. My religion has no problem with it.

      • Chad

        Way to go girl. God’s Word is against sin and it shows homosexuality as sin. All Christian’s are to be like Christ and Christ died for everyone but everyone will not accept Him. You are correct that America is getting ready to reap the hand of God and He has blessed our nation for such a long time. Isaiah states “that which is evil you will call good and that which is good you will call evil”. Stand your ground and pray for those who oppose us as they are defying what God’s Word proclaims.

      • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Carol

        Darlene, the second person to reply in this column, really hit on “Truth”. others who responded do not like the “Truth”. It’s okay. Christians can not and will not agree with anything other than the inspired written Holy Word of God. Christian’s are commanded to love everyone. We are commanded to pray for those who hate Us and Love those who Hate Us. It is those who chose to disobey GOD, who are unhappy with our choice. We cannot be quite, but we do not do any fighting, we pray for any who are lost, confused or chose not to obey. We have to love the sinners, not the sin itself. No one, in this time period, really cares what goes on behind closed doors in their own private homes and making their own choices. Why does anyone’s life style or choice of life style ,have to be pushed onto others. Has the system really failed anyone for the last two thousand years. Are there some out there in this conference who has really been denied their personal choices. We have a right, just as those who chose to disobey God and His Word, to stand up for what we believe. But some are not happy with the life style that was used to bring life to them in this world and want to force their choice on us. Won’t happen. forced on us and our children. Everyone needs to seek GOD, if you chose not to, that is a personal choice. We Christians do not force God on anyone who does not want Him. GOD, Himself does the same, He has always been a gentleman. GOD Bless America, I read the last chapter and it is going to be so sad.

        • Charlie

          Well said, Carol. Beautiful.

      • james beal

        Freedom is NOT a gift from God. How ludicrous! Freedom is won on the battlefield, in the courts, in the protests, suffering and struggles of men who have the intelligence, commitment and faith in a better way.
        It is not sinful or destructive to desire a better life beyond the status quo; it is sinful and destructive to lives in general to live life without equal membership or respect in society. Religious or popular prejudice does not qualify as meaningful reasons for continued inequality, as time and progress have proven.

        • http://savageheart.blogspot.com/ Silverdrake

          What James said. And before the Christians get in an uproar that freedom is a gift from God, even their God said that He helps those who help themselves.

      • jsin

        if you want to live in a theocracy i suggest you move to one- ihere iran is lovely this time of year

      • http://yahoo bryan

        well said my friend

      • Goofy

        Laws have to be put in place.Rules are needed to keep balance.I do not care what my neighbor does as long as he keeps it in his or her home.Bring it outside to the streets is pollution to the rest of us.If your subdivision has a HOA well it is to keep the price of the housing up and to respect each others rights that we all are entitled too.So you and your family are safe invirement.If I have to go by the rules you are most deffinitly going to abide.I do not like being told what to do at all.But I understand it is for the safety for me and my family and my rights.So I play by the rules.Rule breakers are trouble in my book.My subdivision has gone down hill due to incompident home owners.We have an HOE just 100 dollars annual dues.Poeple are complaing.Unreal.My parents pay 400 dollars annually.they are 4 miles down the road.Thier subdivision looks good.Ours can be super nice.But younger president has given up still cecking on him.These people think rules do not apply to them.Total disrespect.Were moving if it does not straighten up.Its sad.So rules are needed to keep the peace and safety of all.I am a gun owner.I have a right to defend my family and or neighbors.I am also experienced military.So you gun pointers need to let it go.Knives,swords are just as deadly.How about artchery deadly.Sticks,pens,a piece of paper is deadly etc..You laugh.Paper cuts.If made corectly can kill like a knive.We can not get away from this.Just like rules.I might save your life because I am a gun owner and I have a license to carry too.So,do not down us that are.Some I still think do not need to have a gun due to unstable mind sets.Like young and the bad butt attitudes.So, I get where you point your finger.I understand.But I can night fight a gun with my finger.Just a point.Rules are good as long as they are for the right reasons.Bad rules I do not like either.Your not alone.Just respect other peoples stuff and homes.Think if it was turned around you would not like it.So be cool and make friends not enemies.Healthy rules are cool.
        later

        • Mrrobinson

          it’s called spellcheck.

      • timmym

        Darlene how dare you speak the TRUTH ! you should be punished for this !

      • James O’Donnell

        Wall Street, Hollywood, US foreign policy, the Supreme Court, the legal system generally, mainstream media-management, the universities and the radical feminist and pro-abortion and pro-gay movements, are all over-Edomed. A century before the birth of Christ, a people utterly condemned by all the major prophets, the Edomites, were converted as a group to become ‘Jews’. According to Josephus, the Jewish historian who lived just after the time of Christ, ‘They (Edom) were hereafter no other than Jews’ (Josephus Antiquities of the Jews, XIII ix 1; XV vii 9). Roth’s Concise Jewish Encyclopedia (1980) says ‘John Hyrcanus forcibly converted [Edom] to Judaism. From then on they were part of the Jewish people..’ (p 154). The Jewish Encyclopedia (1925) says ‘Edom is in Jewry’ (Volume 5 p. 41). Yahweh the God of Israel, ‘hated Esau (Edom)’, a people ‘against whom he has indignation forever’ (Malachi 1:2-4). Revelation 19:13 describes Christ’s cloak as soaked in blood. Bibles with marginal references and other reference Bibles virtually all link this to Isaiah 63:1-6, so Christ Himself will destroy Edom. Obadiah verse 4: ‘Though you soar like the eagle and set your nest among the stars [referring to Edom’s power at the end of the age - see the US President's official crest with occult, so-called 'Star of David' formed with stars], I will bring you down from there, says the Lord.’ ‘There shall be no survivor from the house of Esau, for the Lord has spoken’ (verse 18). If you study the subject of ‘Babylon’ (Revelation 17 and 18, Isaiah 47, Jeremiah 50 and 51), it clearly refers to the sordid, rotten, sick, corrupt anti-Christian money-power so visible today, manipulating politicians and controlling the media. Edom is linked to this Babylon (compare Isaiah 34:5-15 and Isaiah 13:19-22 with Revelation 19:3).

        Ezekiel refers to Idumea (Edom, also referred to as Mount Seir) as taking possession of the land and heritage of Israel and Judah (Ezekiel 35:10, 11, 15; 36:2, 5).The Edomites took control of Judea under the Romans – the evil Edomite Herodian dynasty symbolises this control. Jesus twice accuses ‘those who say they are Jews and are not’ as being a ‘synagogue of Satan’ (Rev2:9, 3:9). Jesus said to these Jews ‘Because you are not sheep of my flock you do not believe’ (Jn10:24-27). True Israel is hidden in the church – the evil modern Jewish counterfeit is anti-Christ (1Jn2:22-3).

        The aim of the evil Edomite-Jewish “Anti Defamation League” is to establish the federal government as the pro-homosexual educator and punisher of Christian opponents of homosexuality at every level, even of public schooling. They are fighting for federal endorsement of adolescent homosexuality as a legitimate, normal alternative, to flood government-sponsored educational programs into public schools to promote homosexual self-esteem. Its encouragement of homosexuality on the grade school level will destroy young consciences even before they have been formed. Indeed, the ADL will gain more ground in their attempt to sodomize America..

      • BobbiSue

        Darlene, thank you for your stand on Same Sex Marriage. We both know what God calls homosexuality….. He calls it an abomination. As Christians, it is our duty to LOVINGLY pass this message to all who will listen. If they choose not to listen, I feel so so so sorry for them. All we can do is to tell them what GOD said… and pray that they will “hear” before it is too late for them…
        ****

        Lev 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them.

        Jer 30:6 Ask ye now, and see whether a man doth travail with child? wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail, and all faces are turned into paleness?

    • fire letterman

      ah, a picture of adam and steve. i’d much rather see a picture of carrie prejean.

    • Susan

      God said Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve.

      Not many of us are buying this propaganda. We know what we believe in and we know how many of us disagree with gay marriage. Those of us who do not want gay marriage far outweigh those who do. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

      In California, there are roughly 18,000 “married” gay couples. Compared to the rest of the population, that’s not a lot. It’s not even the purported “6%”, is it? I’m not “hating”, I’m just stating facts.

      Because I do not believe in gay marriage, I will never honor one – ever. If you tell me you are Mr. and Mr. Brady and are married, I’ll laugh in your face. Not that I will mean to, I just find it hilarious.

      Please move to one of those states that allows your sin and leave the rest of the country alone. Thank you.

      • Andrew Klein

        Susan, I agree with you totally but with all due respect Adam and Steve was my joke before everyone else here!

      • http://savageheart.blogspot.com/ Silverdrake

        “The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.”

        Bull. First, you have no “needs” in this. Second, that statement is a paean to robbery, oppression, tyranny, and genocide. Third, this is not a democracy (rule by the mob), it is a republic (rule by the law), and the PREJUDICES of the many do NOT outweigh the RIGHTS of the few!

      • Mrrobinson

        You dear, should definitely not marry a gay person.

    • Charlie

      ‘Civil partnerships for all’ should be the box to tic at the Federal level for both types of unions. Government doesn’t belong in the marriage business. Gay marriage is not illegal, just not recognized. Freedom of speech allows them to call themselves married if they find a place to do so. To force an entire culture to rewrite it’s traditions is vulgar and greatly unnecessary to solve any separate but equal status. Liberals will eventually win this battle if a more intelligent resolve such as ‘civil partnerships for all’ be made and that will be the last bit of separation of Church and State. The conservatives will be just as much to blame.

    • kim

      good. gay marriage should be allowed. it’s there life let them do what they want. and for all you who are all like well god this and god that. well who cares. let god punish them. it’s his job not yours oh and god also gave us the frreedom to do what we please and if they want to marry smae sex let them

    • Sigmund

      This entire episode in our Nation’s history is indicative of the political power of small, but highly organized mutant groups of our society. It is abhorrent, and the deadly issue with homosexuality and many other aberrant behaviors, is that the underlying element is a rejection of God, of His Word, and it fulfills only one thing…it is prophesied to occur when a nation is in its downfall.

      It’s time to wear the American flag upside down…the well known military “sign of distress”, for we are well into it now, with perversity abounding and a fiat economy based upon nothing tangible in Fort Knox and the money presses moving like a Xerox machine.

    • Scott

      Just A couple of FACTS! I am not going to judge a queer, which means odd, off key, weird, not fitting in because the master of the universe will. This life style goes against everything GOD created. Red birds are not matched to Blue birds and so on. Two, AS bad as the Romans had gotten, they didn’t allow Queer marriages……you cannot name a society that has BECAUSE their main goal is to get their hands on children……first and for most for men it is to molest and rape them; therfore retaining more of a population and/or ruining that little boy’s mind for life. I had a Homo tell me this in Germany in 1987………that’s how he basically enslaves them to prostitution and addictions. Fact 3, if this is NOT the situation, they still want children to raise the ranks of their kind………their minds are so distrurbed that at best they really believe they have the right to actually be a family with children, whom they raise onlty to confuse and ruin that childs life.This is not normal, at the very lease, the child is ridiculed by other children so that the child can and will never be the same as his peers.Fact # 4. Wheither you believe in GOD or not, it does NOT matter. Some higher power or something, whatever you may call it DOES exist. This world is so pefectly created, all the way down to your DNA, that everything is in perfect order…..something maintains this perfect order…….nothing is out of place except things such as these political correctness issues, which is basically being passed to buy votes.YOU do not and CANNOT put a SQUARE in a CIRCLE,,,,,it doesn’t fit. Do yu get it? COMMEN SENCE. Queers know this but they don’t care, so have to come up with some excuse. Whatever holds this universe together, GOD,the master of the universe or whatever yoy want to call it DOES NOT MAKE THESE KINDS OF MISTAKES….PERIOD. YOU ARE NOY BORN THIS WAY…THERE IS NO SUCH SCREW UP…..at lease not in anything living in this world.

  • Bruce

    Dick Cheney supports gay marriage. Okay, so why does this have to be characterized as a division in the Republican Party? I think Dick Cheney is brilliant, patriotic and a great asset to our country, but do I have to agree with him on everything he says in order for us to be compatable in the same political party? I think not. Dick Cheney – keep speaking up, we need your perspective!

    • http://donthaveone Mark

      Yes. Unlike the democrats, we the Republicans are allowed to think, and not blindly follow an ideal where no one is allowed to think separately from what the so called elite of the party tells them to think. As evidence that Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, and Sean Hannity will speak up when the republican party does something they fell isnt right. You will not hear this from the left wing liberals. They will never admit to mistakes, rather they will point fingers at someone else when they know they are the ones that caused it. That is why these days Im a a Republican, when I was a democrat for 40 years. Im an adult. I cant have someone tell me what to think and how to feel about things. Im a human not a pacifist appeasing robot. Sorry, not me.

      • Mike D.

        Mark, What makes you think you are restricted to an opinion just because of party affiliation? I am (and have been) a Dem. for as many years but would not, will not allow anyone to tell me how to vote or what to say. Rebs. have a much more open and friendlier tone about them were as the Dems. have almost adopted a fascist type discipline. That may be the only way they can organize to get elected.

        I myself, will listen to ALL sides first and then make my decision.

        • http://donthaveone Mark

          Thank you for your consideration. You sound like an educated man. I have just found that most dems blindly follow their parties stance, and thats sad. Now I do admit there are some hardball repubs that do the same thing, but like you, Im not one. If they do something wrong, Im as pissed as the next guy. No free passes. They are elected to represent us, and lately, its getting so all they both are doing is representing pointing the finger at the other team, being a part of the problem, rather than a part of the solution.

        • ElCamino

          The democrat party of today seems to almost be cult like.

          • http://savageheart.blogspot.com/ Silverdrake

            “Almost”? Well, I suppose there are a few Dems who will occasionally still act like sapient beings instead of D-N-C-programmed monkey-bots, but they are few and far between, and so are the issues they’ll dare to differ on.

            And if you look back over this thread, you’ll see a lot more cult-like soundbite-parroting among the Reps here than you’ve credited them with. It seems the more political power the religious right gets, the more they sound exactly like the ideology-bleating monkey-bots of the left.

      • John S

        Mark if you are a free thinking republican you are one of a very rare breed.
        I
        find most of the republicans all think the same and take their talking points from Limbaugh and Hannity.
        I listen to these people now and then I can’t take them much, besides I have a life and cant listen to the right wing preachers every day.

        But to make my point (after listening to them off and on for years) I have noticed that the callers never or very seldom add anything to the program.
        As you know if you listen to Limbaugh, he takes very few calls compared to the time he is on the air.

        That means the callers are hanging on the line for ever. Then when he finally takes them they do one of two things.
        They reiterate exactly what he just said, or they reiterate almost exactly what some one else said 30 minutes before.

        They bring NOTHING to the table. What they really want is to get Limbaugh to say that’s right, that’s right. In essence they wait on the line forever just to get an adda-boy from Limbaugh.

        Hannity’s callers are the same. When they call they always tell Hannity ” Your a great American” though he has no idea who they are he has to tell them they are a great American.

        I don’t listen to him much because he rambles on and on, with half truth propaganda that does nothing but put down the one man who is being a real leader.

        My point is it’s very hard to believe the lower class republicans are free thinkers.

        There are two classes of republicans. Those few at the very top of the party and very rich, and all the rest at the bottom who hang on to every word the few pied pipers have to say. The Jerry Springer show is full of them.

        They are the Sara Palin for President croud. Why? because they are just like her, and figure the only way they will ever be on TV is to be the butt of a joke on Saterday Night Live.

        • http://donthaveone Mark

          I dont know. When I listen to talking heads, I try not to judge them by if they say things I agree with, but by if they speak the truth or not, after first studying the issues they talk about. Funny when you mention Rush Limbaugh, whom I definately do see farther right than the rest, but Ive never caught him in a lie, like say Nancy Pelosi, Ted Kennedy, Joe Biden, Barrack Obama, John Kerry, Chuck Shummer and many others. Sean Hannity I have never caught in a lie, nor Glenn Beck, and I have seen them hurl their share of criticism at the Republicans, and rightly so when it was merited to do so. But all these guys, I have never caught them telling a lie, and they all articulate their points with examples, and I really dont see how you can not acknowledge the truth they speak, other than you are a die hard left wing liberal, and you dont like being called out on the things your party does and believes in and practices. The truth hurts sometimes, but its still the truth, and the truth will set you free.

        • B-Man

          Well john s. You got all the answers. Try giving your top 10 solutions to correcting our country, and bringing back a thriving, creative, family oriented shinning light to the world that raises good honest moral thinking American men and women. Because if we had many more of those people alot more people would enjoy more freedoms.

        • Curious

          Whew ………. my ………. how we do digress!

        • http://savageheart.blogspot.com/ Silverdrake

          “Lower class Republicans”? You think all the educated ones are rich? And all the rest are dumb hicks who worship talk radio hosts and will hang on a phone line forever to get their voice on a radio for a couple of seconds?

          You think you’re so fair and educated, but you spout the same narrow-minded, D-N-C-regurgitated, bigoted soundbites as the rest of the leftists.

      • rodin

        I believe you have a false sense of the solidarity of deomcrats. Many democrats were in favour of doing stupid things like going in to IRAQ. Many democrats actually like guns and many do not support gay marriage so I’m not sure you can make blanket ideological statements that there is blind adherence in that party. Methinks you yourself are just plain blinded by ignorance.

        • 13th Gen. American

          I got up and was wondering how people like John and Robin can be so far removed from reality. Theres getting to be more and more. Its sad for them and America and us all. The left is so anti-God in their lives and they try to justify their sin by point their fingers at others and hating everyone that points their sin out to them. Then I remembered the last words of Jesus. It wasnt for just that moment but for all of us lost in sin. So before I move on to different things and let them have their rants I just want to remind us all of what he said. It fits all of us from time to time. Without Jesus we could be just as lost as them. For now on this subject. “Father forgive them for they know not what they do.”

          • Cawmun Cents

            To 13th Gen American…I believe the last words of Jesus were,”It is finished”.But that would be the Gospel of John,the one who was there at the cross.It was probably just heresay.John 19:30-NLT

        • http://donthaveone Mark

          Ignorance is thinking that it was stupid to liberate the millions in Iraq, and let a dictator with Hitler type designs for taking over the world left uncheck. That would have been irresponsible on our part. According to your own thoughts on this, when Saddam invaded Kuwait we should have just let him take it. Then according to you, we should have let him take Iran, Syria, Israel, and many others before we decided to act. Kind of like when Hitler was left unchecked until he had destroyed and taken over all of Europe. If you cant see that, I cant help you. The guy even killed thousands of his own people. I guess what Im saying is I couldnt live with your mentality, that we arent supposed help others out. I am blessed with what I have, but I constantly share with others, I try to right wrongs when I see them, and anything less is just selfishness and wrong. You find fault with the war in Iraq, because it was a republican president who took us there. If this had started while Bill Clinton was president, or Barrack Obama, you would have said nothing. You my friend are politically biased. You also fail to recognize, that is wasnt George Bush that took us to war, it was the democrat controlled congress. You and I both know the President cannot come in and do what he wants to do. Its takes an act of congress. So if you feel guilty, then share in the guilt. I myself, am in daily communication with guys over there, and its a shame that the whole Bush administration, the national media tried to torpedo our efforts in telling the American people it was failing and we were losing. Funny how when I talk to soldiers I know overthere, what they are telling me is a whole different ball game. Me myself, I trust to believe the guy there, not the guy who is writing a story with a political agenda to propaganda against his own country. Time always tells the tale, and one day it will go down what a great man and great President George W. Bush was, sacrificing his favor with the people to do what was right. Of course, again, you and I both know he lost favor with the people, due to the political agenda based lies of the national news media. If you take issue with that, then you sir are lying to yourself.

        • rodin

          Mark you are mistaken… I did not infer any of what you supposedly attribute to me. I’m very specific in my condemnations and NEVER said it was wrong for the first Iraq war. I’ve also never complained about daddy Bush. The son is a different matter and I have trouble finding very much good in his entire eight years. You say it’s ok to go to war to liberate people. Fine… which ones do you want to liberate first. How about Rwanda while the genocide was occuring and we did nothing, how about Tibet when the Chinese marched in and we did nothing, how about Chile where we actually created a dictatorship and supported death squads… ok not just Chile but throughout South America. How about right now in Iran, North Korea, Mogadishu, Syria, Ethiopia, How about China itself, why did it take so long to attack Belgrade. The only reason we attacked Iraq was because Bush and his people created lies to make you believe it was more dangerous than it really was. Your comments about liberating IRAQ are painfully ignorant of foreign policy and history.

          I don’t know why you insist on putting words in my mouth. I never said I would have agreed if Clinton or Obama did the same thing so why are you trying to assume facts not in evidence. You’re only creating rhetoric instead of dealing with facts. How would you like it if I said you agreed with drowning witches, wife beating, and dragging gay kids behind pickup trucks. You didn’t reference either so I would be very remiss if I said you did. So quit telling me what i do think….I’m pretty capable of communicating it on my own

          • Curious

            Well “words in (your) mouth” ……….. probably better n’ soap …….. thanks for cleaning up your expression!;)

        • John S

          Rodin I have no delusions when it comes to party solidarity.
          There are back stabbing politicians on both sides, that put their career’s ahead of the good of the country. (the recent vote in NY re Gay marriage is a good example)
          Truth be known I am a registered Independent, that has long coat tails leading from the democratic party.

          I am a fiscal conservative but strongly adhere to liberal belief in civil rights for everyone. As for the war in Iraq, it was uncalled for and biased on hysteria, and a corrupt administration aging for a fight.

          Afghanistan was a far more reasonable target.

          This country has a history of long term involvements that were incited by flat out lies. The golf of Ton kin comes to mind, the sinking of the Main in Cuba is another, (Spanish American War)but there are many many more.

          Obama’s vote NO was a brave one at the time, and he was right, but 95% of the American public went along with the decision because (1) there was no doubt we truly were attacked, (unlike Tonkin) and everyone clear up to Colin Powell, stiring the cool aid in front of the UN.

          Bush rebuked good information warning him with advanced information on the attack.

          I admit there are Dems that love their guns, but are far fewer per capita than the right wingers. The same goes for Gay marriage.

          When you get the latest poll numbers saying that 67% of Americans think DADT should be abolished, the numbers for gay marriage go up consistently every year, and the case for civil unions is getting close to that of DADT.

          No, no one in any party thinks in exact unison, but considering the Presidents numbers are what they are, (dispite the state of the union) and the Republican’s numbers are what they are… “me thinks” one need not squint to see which side of the pit the pendulam is on.

          Falce solidarity? Blind asherence? Not quite

        • http://donthaveone Mark

          I guess I dont understand why in your mind it was stupid to go to Iraq. For one, you dont think Saddam Hussein was a dangerous madman with controlling the world designs? He needed stopped, lest we deal with another Hitler, only this time with him controlling the oil we need. Two, you dont think those people over there needed freedom, or deserved it? You deem yourself worthy of acceptance and freedom because your gay, so what make you better than these oppressed folks who were being killed for wanting to be free? Our government freed you, why not them? Maybe you arent aware of all the weapons we did capture from these guys, and of the list of weapons this guy had that were inventoried during the Clinton administration, when the UN sent inspectors in and produced pages and pages of weapons of mass destruction. Where they went, who knows. Its a big country with a lot of sand. Could be in Iran, could be in Syria. Could be in Saudi Arabia, as I for one dont trust any of them. It was a good thing to go in there. And man, please, stop the writing like the Christians are your enemy and out to get you. Dude, we pray for you and actually give a crap about you allright, even though you hate us. Now the muslims, yeah, those cats hate you worse than my Christian butt. They hate us both, but you a lot more than me. So, get this straight, I dont agree with your lifestyle, you dont agree with mine, but if these cats come over here attacking, I will gladly stand beside you and try to defend you and I both, Ok. Understood?

        • Denise

          You’re kidding if you think the Democrats are against gay rights,gay marriage.They have fought to push that agenda for votes.Also abortion.God will bring this country to nothing because of all the sin that’s going on in our nation.

        • Denise

          Have you any idea of why we went?Because we sold weapons to Saddam Hussein and he used them on the Kurds.Thank you Senior George W. Bush for selling weapons to the tyrant.

        • Andrew Klein

          Rodin, its me again. You are right that many Democrats favor stupid thing but my definition of many would be the majority since 1988. Now all Democrats care about is stopping a war in the Middle East, and replace all that killing with the murder of unborn children and and encouraging the spread of HIV via “Rump Wranglers”.

        • rodin

          Andrew
          First of all there are many free thinking republicans that are against the state turning a woman into a slave and denying her rights to her own body. Second, there aren’t too many republicans left that think it was a good idea going into Iraq and diluting the only real chance of defeating the seeds of terrorism in Afghanistan. We spent a trillion dollars and thousands of our young soldiers lives completely wastedly. Their lives mean NOTHING. They were sold out by a corrupt administration that illegally invaded Iraq and did nothing for America’s safety. It was a complete waste. Oh and how about all those missing arms and legs of the soldiers that came back maimed. How do you feel about that, (WORD REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT). Wasted lives for NOTHING except to make a fat old vice president’s friends rich and to make junior feel like he was finishing what his father started. Third… I’m real sorry you hate gays so much, but those kind of comments are idiotic, stupid and useless.

          • http://savageheart.blogspot.com/ Silverdrake

            Rodin, anyone who thinks going into Iraq was a waste, or illegal, is either ignorant or a fool. Iraq was a festering sore that needed to be lanced for the US to regain any credibility in that region. Leaving Saddam in power was the second-biggest mistake George H. made. The first was calling a cease-fire in place and allowing the entire Republican Guard to escape through the gap that needed only another 16 hours to close. And Daddy Bush has an entire suite of rooms in Hell waiting for him, for the slaughter he allowed among the Iraqis who rose in rebellion at HIS instigation while our troops were ordered to do nothing. Or worse than nothing, actually turn refugees who’d escaped to our lines over to that same Republican Guard to be murdered in sight of our troops.

            Saddam was one of the biggest sponsors of terrorism in that region. His remaining in power after Desert Storm was a heralded as a symbol of Islamic power over the rest of the world. Twelve years of attacks against the troops enforcing the no-fly zones with no significant retaliation were, in that area’s cultural view, proof of the weakness of every country who had troops there. His stalling, spoofing, hindering, and throwing out the weapons inspectors — while still remaining in power! — were taken as more proof of weakness. He was a shining beacon of Islamic Nationalism even to those who would gladly have put his head on a pike in front of their own national mosque. AND!!! The fact that the coalition, particularly the US, had troops in Saudi Arabia — sacred Muslim soil — was one of the reasons Bin Laden gave for Al Qaeda declaring war on the US back around 1996.

            Nor was there anything “illegal” about restarting active operations in an ongoing conflict when Saddam had broken the cease-fire twelve years earlier. By the Security Council resolutions, ANY coalition member, unilaterally or in concert with others, could have gone in the first time an Iraqi missile truck targeted one of the aircraft enforcing the no-fly zone. ANY coalition member, unilaterally or in concert with others, could have gone in the first time one of the weapon inspectors complained about Saddam’s stonewalling. It was a cease-fire with very specifically defined conditions, and Saddam broke it practically before the ink was dry. That nothing was done about it for twelve years doesn’t invalidate the provisions allowing something to be done about it.

            Frankly, one of the stupidest things George W. did was to ask UN permission to go back in, instead of citing the hundreds of violations and just doing it.

        • keith

          (COMMENT REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT)

        • keith

          blah blah blah blah blah blah…blah blah blah blah blah

    • B-Man

      I am so sick and tired of how distorted and misrepresented the truth is being told. Gods Laws are very clear and not designed to be sorta, maybe, kinda respected. Our Bill of Rights and our Constitution were inspired by a much greater power and written by good God fearing men for all time to be honored. People choose to only do the things and believe in the things that are comfortable and disregaurd those things that come from the narrow path of truth. Our schools removed as much truth as possible back in the 60′s because they new a lie could not stand up to the truth. Living a morally sound life is not easy but the rewards are amazing. Just because you have tendencies toward some one either of the same sex or even if your a man and women married, what separates us from the animals is that we make a choice to honor the truth. God made it very clear that homosexuality and permiscuous behavior would result in NO ETERNAL LIFE. It is a SIN like it or not. Our founding fathers wrote our Constitution based on these truth’s and believed in the one GOD that spoke them in his hand book for us to follow. This makes our country and its laws a Christian nation. We are here to honor his will so that we may injoy eternal life.
      We are not here to judge that is for GOD! But we as a Christian nation with our Constitution as it was inspired and written cannot consider any other definition of MARRAGE than between an Man and a Women. If people want anything else for a relationship it cannot be called a Marrage by our Constitution. This is not to be mean, we must live truth and stand on those priciples as a foundation or we have no foundation and we will fall hard as a country and a people. This lifestyle is just that, it’s a lifestyle preference and they are not a nationality, they just choose to live out of GOD’s truth’s in sin. This is their choice. It must not be shoved down our throats and taught to our impressionable children either. School is not the place for this kind of lifestyle to be taught and add confusion to their already difficult growing years. Truth’s need to be again taught daily to our children if we are to have honorable leaders in the future.
      Stop watering down the truth. I two men and two women could pro-create and make the most increadable miracle given to man then I might start believing that Homosexuality is ok. But they can’t and they never will and men will never give birth and two women cannot get pregnant and people need to stop watering down the truth. We can love them as a person but we do not have to accept their lifestyle as normal. God does not make you gay he gives you the truth and an opportunity to act on the truth or act in sin. It’s their choice.

      • rodin

        Sorry dude…. you been sipping too much kool-aid, not sure what’s worse, the sugar high you’ve got or the rampant disrespect you show to freedom and respect for those who either have a different interpretation of your own religion’s teachings, those that follow a different religion or those that chose not to have any religion. The only way for a society to move forward is to create a set of laws and principles which reflect respect for everyone. Sorry if this means you have to give up some of your bilious hatred.

        • B-Man

          Wow ! At what point did I make a Hate statement? If two men and two women could pro-create a gift that GOD gives us then I would believe, that lifestyle was honoring GOD. He made us the way he made us for a reason. If we choose to live outside his rules we will be punished. There are rules everywhere in life to keep order and respect. Not to agree that homosexuality is a correct lifestyle is only living in GOD”S will. We do not hate the person , we do not agree with the act. For our kids, ramming this kind of lifestyle down their throats is confusing and will bring this country and our moral values down. Again, just because we may desire something, we choose not to act on those feelings out of respect and honor and that makes us different from animals. We as humans have will to choose the right path or the wrong path. No one said life was easy and we are hear to EARN our way into etetnity. It ain’t free

          • Mrrobinson

            sheesh…what part of “the rampant disrespect you show to freedom and respect for those who either have a different interpretation of your own religion’s teachings, those that follow a different religion or those that chose not to have any religion. The only way for a society to move forward is to create a set of laws and principles which reflect respect for everyone.” don’t you get?

            These ‘God’s laws’ might work for you, your family, your friends, but they don’t work for everyone…freedom of religion guarantees you can enjoy these laws all you want – it also means others who don’t believe in them don’t have to! If you want a theocrazy…go to the Middle East…

        • B-Man

          So I guess that all the truths and all the laws that were established years ago by very wise and inspired men and women stand for nothing anymore right? They were just stupid people back then and because we now want to progress we don’t need any laws or foundations to launch our futures from. We just need to jump out there and land where ever we fall . Great plan but that is not how America became Great and the one place for so many people around the world to desire to come and be free. We became great because we stood on moral priciples and values and we were able to breed great people from that. We were creative and inventive but now all people want to do is what ever feels good and change and re-write laws and rules to fit into their lifestyles today. You got it all wrong. It’s those rules and laws that are now more important than ever to follow. If we just keep changing the rules then we are on nothing but sand and our homes are going down forever. The only people spitting out hate are the ones living in SIN, being called on it and feeling hurt because they know that way of life will not bring them to eternal life in the end. None of us are perfect but at least for myself I constantly work towards where i want to end up. Im not sorry that someday I will be before my maker and he will say “Well done good and fiathful servant” (i hope and pray)

        • John S

          .Rodin,
          In the 17Th century Galileo sided with Copernicus’s discovery that the sun was a placed fixture and that the earth orbited around it, rather than the earth being the stationary planet with the sun orbiting around it.

          As we all know when this FACT got to the pope (one of the ALL KNOWING religious figures of the time) Galileo was in very deep dodo. He was forced to recant his facts,
          and Copernicus never published his writings until he was on his death bed.

          It took 350 years for the pope to finally apologize to the world for their stubborn stupidity, that was premised on religious, theological, ignorance. In the mean time these two genius’s were reduced as blasphemous fools

          When the pope took such a hard backward stand on this issue, I wonder just who inspired such thinking. God must have been having a bad day when he advised the pope to stand firm on his ABSOLUTES.

          Just wondering if you see anything that reminds you of that in this room?

          • L, USA

            Absolutes exist whether or not you believe. The early scientists used the fixed points of reference to see the rotation of the earth around the sun. The “Pope” used the Word of God as a reference point of his own interpretation (foolishly, because the written Word states plainly that it is “not of any private interpretation, but is discerned by the Spirit of God”) of fact. He was mistaken because of his own error of relying upon his “own understand”, even though he based his conclusion upon scripture, as it is written that the earth is the center of all creation in the universe. Who knew? Seek and ye shall find. From a concerned, faithful and obedient, Christian Republican.

        • Andrew Klein

          That’s enough Rodin. It seems to me you are the one sipping too much Haterade.

        • rodin

          Andrew

          Really – what haterade would make me suggest that all people find a common base of respect for one another. Isn’t that the opposite of hate? Very sad that you want to continue your hatred and not accept that others may not have the same religion. Move to IRAN where you have to accept what the Ayatollahs say. Seems that’s what you want for America.

          • k9trainer

            Rodin,
            I do not pretend to know if homosexuality is a gene one is born with, a psycological thing or even a choice. I don’t believe in science, because their research is ever changing (ie. for many years they say eggs give you high cholesterol,then they say eggs don’t and they’re good for you). Who knows, and with us being a fallen people, it’s hard to say. I do know this though…we are all struggling with a reality we don’t want. I am very stubborn. I don’t know why, but I have always been that way. God’s word says we shouldn’t be stubborn, but that doesn’t change the way I am. My husband has a terrible temper. He has always been that way, even as a child. He was angry with everyone all the time, I have been living with abuse throughout our 12 year marriage. God’s word says we should love others as we love ourselves (by the way, he was suicidal as well, so what kind of love shall I receive if he doesn’t even love himself). We are all living with something, we are all infected. This is not something you have to live with though; this does not have to be your curse. I do not hate you for being homosexual; I love you because you are my brother. I pray for you, because I want you to go to heaven. You do not seem happy with your lifestyle. You are seeking acceptance, because you feel you have to live with being homosexual. It’s not your true desire though. It’s not anyone’s business what you choose. I’m letting you know there is love and support for you. Shame on the other posters that are being hateful to you. We should hate the sin, love the sinner. We are all sinners. Thank you Grandma for your love and support. Rodin, no one is better than you. I apologize for all the hate you have been feeling. Give God a chance, He loves you more than you will ever know.

          • Susan

            Rodin, really? Seriously, don’t act like a nerd. How is it hateful that we don’t want to allow homosexuals to “marry” in the same sense that traditional couples do? It’s not hateful. Traditional marriage is between a man and a woman and it’s for procreation. Sorry, but homosexuals will never be able to procreate, no matter how much you fantasize about it. It’s not that we hate homosexuals, it’s that we hate the idea of the traditional family being bastardized by you liberal fanatics. I will never recognize a same sex couple as “married”. EVER.

            Is that so hard to understand? If it is, you’re a moron.

          • http://savageheart.blogspot.com/ Silverdrake

            Susan, there are a lot of heterosexual couples who will never be able to procreate, either, or who choose not to. Would you deny them marriage, as well, because they aren’t going to be procreating?

            There is more to a marriage than procreation.

        • keith

          (COMMENT REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT)

        • keith

          blah blah blah blah blah blah…….

      • 13th Gen. American

        B-man, Stand back. Shes on a rampage now. You didnt say anything hateful. Just pointing out their wrong makes them nutz. I think we all better keep our computers at arms length because she is so mad and spewing her hate for us that some of that spiddle coming out of her mouth might fly through the screen.
        They are like little kids. They want something and you tell them no and why its bad and they have a hissy fit and throw themselves on the ground and say I HATE YOU I HATE YOU. YOUR SO MEAN. Its an irrational thought process they have and there is no reasoning because its all based on what they want without the care of what God thinks. Thats why they want a different system. One that doesnt show them their wrong.Sad for them that it doesnt matter how man changes God doesnt.

        • rodin

          Sorry dudez. now there’s two of youze. Just because you both choose to live according to certain rules does not mean that those who choose not to should be deprived of their rights and freedoms. I fail to see how Ellen and Portia, or Elton and David, living together affect you. You’ll probably say something incredibly stupid like you want to protect your children from seeing it. However, all you’re doing is hurting your own children that have a one in six chance of being gay. It’s a whole lot easier and respectful to treat everyone with dignity and equality. I respect the fact that you don’t want to be gay and that’s fine you don’t have to be. But for those that don’t have a choice, why would you want to hurt them, they belong to your god as well.

          You’re both unthinking hypocrites spreading the word of HATE and BIGOTRY.

          • keith

            blah blah blah blah blah blah you sound like a broken record!blah blah blah blah…………..

          • Ogre

            One out of every six ??? Hmmmmmm,Isn’t six the devil’s number? I heard it preached once that Jesus had 12 disciples, and one of them turned out to be a devil(Judas). So, you can figure on about one of every twelve people to turn out that way.

        • 13th Gen. American

          See Robin is the one that wanted to kill christians and she is saying we want to hurt gays. Never said I want to kill them or do anything harmful there sweetie. Again your wrong.

        • B-Man

          Well it’s pretty sad when you have to find approval from a celeberty. My hero is God and when he says it’s not an acceptable lifestyle choice and that he will not honor that. We have removed the TEN COMMANDMENTS from our lives which make life and how we live it pretty darn clear. This does not make me a hate person, it’s a guild for my life. Im always trying to achieve all 10 but im human. As long as I keep trying we will see in the end who stays up and who gets passed up.

        • 13th Gen. American

          Well since she brought it up lets use her examples of gay couples. First Elton himself joked about how many partners he had and how much fun he had. He has a partner now but has cheated on him. Lets say Melissa E. and her partner at the time Cindy had how many kids? 2-3, with the help of a man of course and then Cindy saw the light and found a man. Gays have less control keeping it in their pants then straight men. Most women make men work for it and pick and choose. Gay men will screw anything that moves. Theres tons of gay men who have so many partners its absurd and because of it all they brought us AIDS.Thank you. Now if they were all so into 1 or even a few partners it wouldnt spread like wildfire but alas it had. Heres a quote from the “Origins of Aids”
          “The AIDS epidemic originated, as an at that time unknown syndrome, among young, well-educated, previously healthy, homosexual, mainly white men in Greenwich Village, south of Manhattan, New York in early 1979 (one patient was even retrospectively diagnosed in December 1978). The pattern of the epidemic was rather explosive. Within two years 80 patients had shown clear signs of a yet unexplained phenomen. In autumn 1980 the same pattern was repeated in Los Angeles and San Francisco. For all these three cities there was a common denominator. Young, healthy, educated, homosexual men were enrolled in a trial testing a new hepatitis-B vaccine. These trials started first in New York in November 1978 and in the Californian cities in March 1980. {1,2,3}
          “The epidemic was rather explosive.” That in itself proves that gays have multiple to the 50 power partners which then spreads to the blood banks and Bi men and to the rest of us all. So right there yours and all the other just a partner or two, (WORD REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT) is so wrong. Because of the perversion of gays you all have not only destroyed yourselves to the point people are dropping like flys in africa but to the rest of society. Thank you all very much.

        • Michelle

          B MAN AND 13TH GEN AMERICAN, A-MEN YOU GOT IT ABSOLUTELY RIGHT!!!!!!

      • http://donthaveone Mark

        Be careful what you say. Your not allowed to speak the truth of God’s word, lest you be deemed a hater, by hateful people like Rodin. You see, in Rodin’s world, any word spoken against his thoughts and ways are hate. Yet he is so full of hate, just read the words he writes. According to him, everyone including God is wrong and he is right, and nobody else in entitled to have contrary thoughts to his, or to repeat the truth that God has set forth from the beginning of time. It is just unreal how some groups demand to be accepted, but these same groups cannot and will not accept any God fearing groups with God fearing moral thoughts. We are not allowed to have our beliefs, but they are theirs. Isnt this kind of hypocritical on their part. They can be, but we have no right to be. Amazing stuff.

        • Michelle

          OPPPS SPOKE TO SOON, AMEN TO YOU TOOO MARK

        • Denise

          I have a 7th Amendmwent right!That means I can practice my faith and have the free excersize thereof.I don’t see the truth of God’s word as hate.Hitting them or name calling is murder in God’s eyes.So I don’t advocate either.But I know that God created Adam and Eve showing the truth right from the start.God ordained holy marriage.It’s not up for discussion about being available for two men and two women.

      • Denise

        God has already stated their fate in1Romans18-32.

      • keith

        the bible is not hard to understand,their is NO grey areas when it comes to sodomy.if you do it then your doomed to hell,no two ways about it,PERIOD! the demons infesting a sodimate will have em LEAVE when confronted with the truth.don’t argue it with em,just tell em like it IS! truth is truth and that is as they say that!

        • rockin on

          I don’t know or care what the Bible says because it was edited by humans. I do know that the word marriage means taking two opposites and forcing them to work together. How will we use the word in describing cooking if its meaning is diluted by the notion of putting two same things together and having them work together. Big deal, that was easy; no disagreements because they taste/think alike anyway. Have your damn unions so you can suck down health insurance/public trough benefits like married parasites, but pick a different word.
          Don’t have sex of any type in public and don’t debase language. And don’t imagine that Dick Cheney has any principles whatsoever other than those that serve him and his inner circle.

    • B-Man

      Hey Bruce, I know Cheney is a well informed person on the dealings of government and he says he is republican. Here is the problem, we must stand firm on conservative beliefs and laws. This once was the Republican party. You can’t believe parts of conservative values and then believe in other things that don’t follow the same. “ABSOLUTES” . We are not teaching our kids Absolutes anymore and if we don’t stand on our priciples, (popular or not) then we stand for nothing. No foundation, no future. We have a family member that is gay and we love her but we do not accept the lifestyle choice. We have talked many times and they respect our feelings because we respect theirs and do not judge. But we do stand on our beliefs and because we do they aggree that unions between each other is ok and they do not want to disrespect the value of Marriage in it’s correct context. They are choosing their lifestyle and come what may come in the end. We pray for them everyday.

      • Bruce

        B-Man, I understand what you’re saying and think you make a couple of valid points. Absolutes can be dangerous. If I only support and stand with people who absolutely believe like I do, I may find very few to stand with. Even though I can respect Cheney’s opinion on gay unions, I will never support it with my vote. This doesn’t mean he and I can’t stand together as conservatives and/or Republicans on the bulk of the important issues. I don’t believe we all think that much alike, even though we may consider ourselves part of the same conservative group. We will and do have differences. As a Republican or conservative, Cheney will be in the minority with his stance on gays, and he won’t win the point among that group. His opinion on that one issue doesn’t disqualify him from being a Republican or conservative. However, even with differences, I would rather stand with him and his conglomeration of viewpoints rather than with liberals. Members of my own family, who are all conservatives, have opinions that differ in a variety of ways, yet all our effort continues to be directed toward the overall rise of the values of being conservative.

    • Andrew Klein

      Dick Cheney is also a sociopath who convinced Bush to go to war with Saddam on behalf of his daddy. Not only that but he used Bush’s moment of weakness to make millions of dollars by placing his company in Iraq to “rebuild” the economy. So your praise of Cheney truly scares me.

      • rodin

        I actually sort of agree with you, (the sentiment not the facts) except Bush’s moment of weakness as you so eloquently put it lasted eight solid years.

      • Cheny makes nothing on Contracts
      • http://savageheart.blogspot.com/ Silverdrake

        Andrew, Haliburton had won the contingency support contract on a competitive bid during the Clinton administration. It’s a 10-year contract to support troops wherever active operations might break out. So, no, Cheney did not just conveniently stick his company in there with no bid, as the ignorant dupes of the mainstream media so often contend.

  • Robert Campbell

    OK, Cheney has voiced his opinion, now he needs to talk about something else.

    • rodin

      Why would you even think he has anything important to say…. We just went through 8 years of him f@#$ing up everything he touched. He’s flipflopped on everything and made billions of dollars of taxpayers for his corporation friends.

      • http://donthaveone Mark

        Really? Flip flop? Can someone say John Kerry? Dick Cheney did fine for 8 years, and his many years before that. As far as making billions of dollars of taxpayers Im not sure what that means. But I do know his party cut taxes and business like where I work were able to hire 35 more guys. Now that they are going away, your boy Obama and his tax monsters are in control, they have all gotten laid off. Millions are getting laid off, as business prepare to pay these huge new tax burden bills the dems have laid on them. Its a Fact. The only reason the economy slowed down Bush’s last year was everyone felt the election of the democrat tax monster coming, and business held back their cash just in case. I guess they were right. Now instead of spending this money on payroll and hiring more people and more production, they are spending it on taxes, so millions and millions are still losing their job. Cheney and Bush didnt tax, and they didnt give millions to their friends, ala Bill Clinton with his Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac collapsing the banks, making millions for his henchman Franklin Raines and Jamie Gorelic. All true man, you cant change the facts. You can attack me, attack Bush, attack Cheney, but you know what, you cannot change the facts of History. We were kept safe, and still are until your boy Barrack undoes these safety nets Bush had in place, and he will undo them, just as Clinton before him did. More people were working in the US than anytime ever in history under Bush. Fact. Unemployment was at an all time low under Bush. Fact. So change history if you want, but those that see the truth, will find the truth. Those that seek to change history to hide their party’s failure, ie Bill Clinton and Barrack Obama, then they will lie and point a finger and place blame elsewhere. But the truth, are in these facts I mentioned. The truth will set you free.

        • rodin

          I cannot believe how ignorant you are of economics…. First you say that everything would have been fine if Obama had not been elected and then you say that all the problems of the financial meltdown were caused by Clinton. Which one, either we were fine and wouldn’t have had a meltdown or Obama caused it and Clinton was OK too. At least make your stupidity consistent. Some of us actually understand how budgets and taxes and banking work and how bad things can get. Bush was advised by almost economist he met including the chairman of the federal reserve that the tax cuts he was putting forward would cause massive budget deficits and societal dislocations. He did it anyways. Try reading a book sometime…. and no… the bible doesn’t count. The FACT is that George Bush came into office with the biggest budget surplus on record and with his tax cuts and silly wars plunged the American economy into major debtor status that required a recession/ monetary devaluation to get out of. There are a lot of tools we have to mitigate the pain of what we have to face now, and by and large we will come out the other side in better shape. But make no mistake, a simplistic and rhetorical analysis as you provide above is worse than useless… it’s dangerous.

          • keith

            blah blah blah blah blah….blah blah blah

        • Denise

          Obama claimshe’s a christian,but he just signed into law tax money to Mexico for abortion for unborn babies and he wants to promote gay rights,gay marriage.Believe me their were instances of gays hitting a preachers windows with hammers and calling up his wife and telling what deviated sex acts they would preform on their children.Now who’s the haters?!!!!

    • Robert

      Why don’t you check out how much money Gore and Barney Franks has made. I don’t llike Cheney, but he has the freedom to say whatever he wants to. If you want to talk about someone that has flipflopped, you need to look at what Obama has flipflopped on.

      I am a Democrat, but don’t agree with a damn thing that Obama has done.

      • Isirio Abelon

        Hooray!!!!!! Bravo. I like the last comment from Robert. Hello fellow Democrats, time to break away. If a man lost his freedom, taxed to the bones, someone dictates what you can do and can not do… time to break away, stay the course work hard to succeed. Some preachers do not follow what they preached such as killing Babies ( late abortion). Allow Gay marriage. Please kindly define marriage means. I am glad my Dad is a man and my Mom is a Woman otherwise; I don’t exist and so do you. Hey.. Do you think you got it made receiving all that free money from the government or defending everything from the government to take care of you… you are wrong because you are taxed to the bone as well, anything you buy is taxed. Do you know about the value added tax (VAT) Everyone will be taxed to pay the current administration trillions of dollars debt. I have some more to tell you but duh.. I am done. I stop listening to MSNBC, ABC, NBC. I rather spent my afternoon with FOXNEWS, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Glen Beck. Laura Ingram is one of my favorite too. Attend the TEA Party in your area on July 4th. Adios.
        Abe

        • John S

          Well whata ya know. A real Faulx News Tea bagger. Where are you from “Lenningsville” Indiana? Happy “Tea Bagging” with the Ho-Dunks

      • http://donthaveone Mark

        Im a Republican, but I cant really blame Obama for what they have done so far, or for what they are about to do. He is just the figurehead for the democrat party. These cats that decided what to do feed it to him, and its backfiring right and left, and as the American people get more and more fed up, which they allready are doing, these guys will take Barrack Obama and throw him under the bus to deflect blame from themselves. Mark my words. They cannot be held responsible for what they do, and will have to point a finger. They will point it at him to save their party’s face, dump him to the curb, and try to start again next time with Hillary or someone else. Just watch and see.

        • American Citizen

          Mark, you’re right, Obama is a post turtle. Although I see the Democrat Congress giving him everything he wants. People are saying they were fooled by him, didn’t they listen to what he was saying during his campaign? He was scary then and he’s even scarier now. Leopards don’t change their spots nor tigers their stripes. Some of us said during the campaign that he had a hidden agenda and it’s coming out slow but sure, some of it so fast it’s bankrupting this country.

          He’s also a “do as I say” person and doesn’t adhere to it himself.

        • http://donthaveone Mark

          To American Citizen, dont you find that all the dems are the do as I say type people? You know, like their glitzy hollywood friends like Barbara Streisand that fly across the country in their private jet, then hop into a gas guzzing limo, then stand on the podium in front of the environmental wacko supports and tell them we have to quit using fossil fuels. Seems she just burnt in a day what it takes me 5 years to do, but thats ok, its do as I say not as I do. Mr. Barry says we need to tighten our purse strings, then gives billions to the auto makers who have shown they dont have any idea of how to successfully run a business. They have been rampantly corrupted by greed and the unions for such a long time, and now they want our taxpayer money to bail them out from the bad decisions they have made. I got an idea. How about all those rich (WORD REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT) that got millions of dollars in bonuses more than once over the years, throw some back in there. How about the union (WORD REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT) that got paid to sit home and not work, throw some of it back into the pot. No, what do they do, they sell the guys down the road that allready met their part by working all those years, now they want to take thier allready earned pensions, so that they dont have to give up anything. Sorry, those guys are retired and GM should be forced to pay them what is owed to them, and these current workers should have to take a wage reduction down to 12 to 15 bucks an hour. If they dont want the job, leave. There are plenty of people that would like to have them. Barry hasnt a clue, so he blindly follows the left wing liberal pants wetting pacifist appeasers that todays Democrat party is, and we all get to pay for it. Yee Ha. Isnt it fun.

  • http://yours Margie Hunter

    Why did God make Man AND Woman? Why did God destroy Sodom and Gomorrah?
    IF Homosexual Marriage is ok—–why not let ALL law breakers out of jail?? Why not encourage stealing, telling lies, adultry, multiple marriage partners, or any other SIN?>?????
    Where is the “Rule of Law”??????

    • Edg1

      Right on! Couldn’t have said it better myself!

    • John S

      You have been listening to Rush Blab too much

      • http://yours Margie Hunter

        I hardly ever listen to Rush? It is what I believe.

      • http://donthaveone Mark

        I love that guy, he always speaks the truth. I guess thats why he has the most successful radio show going. There arent a lot of news outlets these days that talk the truth, only Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity and Glenn Beck. Good luck trying to get any truth from ABC,CBS,NBC,CNN and MSNBC. Everyone knows they are owned by the rich democrats, and they are the propaganda tool of the left wing pacifist appeasing pants wetting left wing liberals.

        • BARBIE

          TRUTH SPOKEN !!! Fox is the only truth out there any more.

    • rodin

      god didn’t MAKE man and woman!!! There are many different processes of procreation which different species evolved into. Some require sex with a different sexed partner, some have both sexual “parts”, some don’t require any sex and some can even “do it” with the same sex.

      Just because you believe something doesn’t mean you’re allowed to create a set of hate rules for others that might not have the same belief…. or who are more likely just plain more intelligent and not willing to live their lives in adherence to a fairy tale.

      • 13th Gen. American

        Shes right. I think shes one of the ones that evolved from a (WORDS REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT).

        • rodin

          Mr 13. Did you think that one up all on your own or did Tammy Faye help you.

        • 13th Gen. American

          No but I know Tammy, who loved gays but didnt agree with them and they loved her to, would be laughing too..

      • duane

        If we evolved idiot, what happened to our tails?

        • rodin

          ROTFLMAO – I don’t know what happened to yours but mine is right where it belongs…. so are the horns on my head.

          I assume you are the product of a Texas education.

        • http://donthaveone Mark

          they got rubbed off from all the butt bumping going on. Oh wait, gay men cant reproduce with each other. My bad, never mind.

        • Jerome

          Everyone, we can not critize. We can beleive what we want to beleive. God gave us options to choose what we want to become. In addition, it is up to us to choose what is just and non just. However, we will suffer consequences on our decisions that are made.
          The topic is controversial. I will let my Heavenly Father, My shepherd, and My King to decide. When the diecisions are finally made, some will agree and disagree and some will cry.

          Right now, let us be careful on what we choose and beleive.

      • B-Man

        So you think God didn’t create Man and Women? Funny how were you born and why can no man ever carry and give birth if your so right. There has never in any historical documentation been any information leading to a man having carried and delivered a 9 month old baby? I would like to know if you have an answer to this question that reflects the truth or whether it reflects your frustration. “What came first the chicken or the egg?

        (I’ve never seen an egg lay a chicken)

        • rodin

          Keep digging yourself deeper with your ignorance. The rest of the world can ignore the backwoods hillbillies and it probably won’t affect us too much.

      • http://donthaveone Mark

        Yeah right. A bird crapped on a rock and the sun fermented it and there we are. You keep calling everyone ignorant. You keep blaming everyone for hate. Dude you are all about ignorance and hate, with everything you say. Write what you want in response to this, but after this Im done with you, because I cannot argue with someone so blind that he doesnt even know that God created him in his own image. Believe all that other stuff you want, but you really think that if we evolved from a fish, for one, that with all the science today they could prove it, and two, why did some decide just to stay fish? If they spent 100th of what they spend on science trying to prove evolution, and spent it on researching creation and opening up these sites that are under guard in Egypt and Iran, and also revealed publicy about all these Biblical artifacts that allready have been found, there would be no question. However, satan is the ruler of the earth right now, and will be until the second coming, so its not going to happen. But the fact remains, you choose to be ignorant to the facts, and you are ignorant to others beliefs, thinking that only your beliefs count. You have proved this with your words in every post.

        • rodin

          You want to believe in fairy tales…. I don’t give a flying f@#$. You can believe whatever you want. Just don’t try to push it on me. And don’t make me try to conform to some silly rules that you want to justify because your fairy godmother told you. You’re completely free to believe in anything you want…. I don’t CARE. That is not the issue. The issue is that you want to foist your beliefs on ME. That’s why we have individual rights. Both of us get to enjoy the same rights as the other while believing in whatever individual insanity we want to. ALL I’m saying is that WE HAVE TO PROVIDE EQUAL CIVIL RIGHTS TO EVERYONE….

        • B-Man

          Hey Mark, Love the passion ! Like I told Rodin, We will know the truth in the end and all I know is by and constantly trying to follow God’s principles, (trust me I make mistakes ) and begging for God’s forgiveness, I just don’t want to be grabbing an exhaust pipe when the bus is leaving. I hope Im on it and our goal is to bring one soal with us. I think we can bring more.

        • http://donthaveone Mark

          To B-Man: What Rodin doesnt get, is that we care for him and want the best for him. But he throws his hate and vile swearing at us, I guess he is unable to return the kindness. I dont need him to approve of my Christian life and ideals, but he seems to need to push the idea that I and you need to accept his. If we dont, we are haters and deserve his vile cussing out. I seek nothing from him, neither his confirmation, nor his cutting down and calling me names. I show him kindness, he shows me hatred. Yet I am the one he attacks. You and I both know it is our jobs as believers, haveing had the binders of satan lifted off of our eyes and ears, to spread the light into the darkness, that Rodin may have the wonderful life God has laid out for him. I hope he still gets it, and still has time. Many plan on doing it later, and never get that time. Either way, now or later, we all get to know Jesus, and are given what we asked for, whether life in eternity with Him, or a life separate from Him in a place where He will no longer bother you. We will get what we seek, so be careful of what you ask for.

        • rodin

          I don’t seek anything from the haters, merely for them to stop punishing the 10% of the population that is homosexual. I’m tired of your justification for gay bashing. You can believe in whatever religion you want and profess to love whoever you want… Your christian ideals…. ROTFLMAO… you’re the first to justify the next gay beating or murder because after all they’re sinners… they deserve it. So if you want to continue bashing and hating in the name of your god, then I’m going to call you what you are.

          • Cawmun Cents

            Rodin,how is it that you can live in this country?If Christians are so hell bent on your destruction,then why havent you been irradicated from society?A majority of this nation claims to be Christian.Notice please that I said,”claims to be”.I said that because people who have claimed to be Christians have done some rather bad things throughout history.I do not dispute that fact.But there may be a difference between “claim to be” and really are.That is not for me to decide,nor is it so that excuses can be made.But people often mis-represent themselves in the name of an agenda,right?Let me give you a for instance.Healthcare is proportedly supposed to be a “right”,as used in context with Democratic policy.Yet it has been made mandatory by the President and his constituents that a person will be fined if they do not comply with the new law.Since when is a “right” something that is:A.mandatory,:B.something that you can be fined for not choosing to comply with?That does not make sense does it?That is a clear mis-representation of the term “right”.So since the agenda was to create a single payer system,the next best thing was to make it mandatory.This does not seem like they are looking out for my rights,but that they intend to bilk me out of funds no matter which way I turn.That is what the British crown was pushed out of this country for.Similarly,let us take note that if Christians or at least people who claim to be Christians,were out to get you then chances are you would get got.The fact is that Christian societies protect your rights to be who you are.They may disagree with your stance,but you cant argue that you are not treated much better than you would be in may other nations.Marriage is the act of combining two different parts.The plug and the socket.The hitch and the ball.Have you ever seen anyone marry two hitches together?Nope.The term marriage,as defined in the Christian Bible,is not one of legal importance.Rather it is one of design.For a man and a woman,are two different parts,and can be married together,to create children.So you see that you cannot marry two of the same parts together,physics deny you that as homosexuals.That is why you do not need to be “Married”.It is not the legal aspect that denies you but the practicle one that does.

      • Denise

        Darwin renounced his theories on his deathbed.Then he came to JesusChrist.God is the creator but you refuse to listen to the truth.When you die ,you will go straight to God and Jesus.Because you rejected the Saviour,Jesus and din’t turn away from your homosexual lifestyle,you will go to a lake of fire forever to be tormented before Jesus and the holy angels.I warn you so you can repent and come to Jesusbefore it’s too late!

        • Smilee

          He also said “judge not lest you be judged” and only he knows the heart and will judge him justly, you do not have that ability or do any of us.

          • BARBIE

            Sorry Dear, but if you go to that verse and read what is before and after you will see that it is taken out of context. To the contray he tells us to judge all things all through our lives all throught the Bible.

      • Denise

        Are you just asking to be struck by lightning?You really are not too intelligent when you think we came from a puddle of ooze.I know who created me:God Almighty!I am fearfully and wonderfully made!

        • rodin

          Just keep holding on to that thought. Doesn’t hurt me at all if you believe in whatever supreme being you want…. as long as you don’t use it to justify hurting people you don’t agree with.

          • BARBIE

            Just one question dear Rodin. Be very careful how you answer this. Your answer could doom you for all eternity. It’s called “ blossomy against the Holy Spirit “ which is unforgivable forever. Are you denying Jesus Christ and God the Father and Holy Spirit? If you say yes I call you a liar. After reading your posts I see you striking out in hurt and anger. This is nothing but self preservation and is understandable we do the same when folks think we should change.. But I also read a need for Jesus. You want him but won’t admit it because you know what you would have to give up. But son, what you would be replacing it with is indescribable. Some of us haven’t acted very Christian here, but just like you, we are scared and angry too. We are losing more and more of our rights every day and you want what you feel ought to be your right and we all believe very deeply in our stands.
            If you have time I wish you would go to site of men and women who have turned their backs on that life for the love of Jesus. They could offer all types of information and advice. I know you want to but you also love your life as it is. But please sweet Rodin. Think about this. In the mean time, in just a few minutes I will be on my hand and taking your name up to your Father. He’s been missing you. I know he’ll send you his love and hoping to hear from you soon.,, Blessing, Barb

          • BARBIE

            Sorry Rodin. It’s called “ blasphmy against the Holy Spirit “ Can you tell it is wayyyy past my bedtime. Amd P.S. I have 2 nephews that are also Gay, So the subject is no stanger to me and we love them and they are very heavy on my heart too, Good-night Rodin. Sleep well/ Jesus still loves ya, And please don’t scold me. I would cry my heart out. I’m a cryer and I hurt easily too.

        • http://donthaveone Mark

          Denise, God doesnt use the lightning anymore for punishment. He throws you into the Clinton cabinet, isnt that punishment enough. You know, my mom used to say, “youll go to hell for lying”. But they changed that to. Now you go to the Clinton cabinet for that also.

      • keith

        blah blah blah blah blah blah….blah blah blah blah…blah blah blah blah….blah blah….

    • rodin

      I’m still trying to figure out which law homosexuals are breaking and being kept out of prison for? You’re an idiot…. go home.

      • B-Man

        Just trying to save your soul. After all the fighting and the words back and forth in the end we will all know the truth. As awsome as the thought of eternal life sounds and as painful as our time here on earth is, all I’ve concluded is the words in the Bible are about love and to recieve Gods love and he has some rules to follow as a small token for us to enjoy Eternal happiness. The 88 books of the Bible have been around and not one book conflicts with the other, for almost 2000 yrs. It is the single most influetial piece on earth. I look at it this way. Nothing written in the Bible has harmed me infact its only enhanced my life and people around me and ” If I’m wrong, then I’ve only lost alittle time, But if your wrong, It’s going to be a big boo-boo.

        • rodin

          This isn’t an argument for whether my soul is saved or not… it’s a societal debate about whether it’s ok for one group of Christofascists to intentionally harm another group and deny them equal civil rights.

          I’m happy that you are comfortable with your belief system…. I’m very upset that you would use it to justify hatred and bigotry over others.

        • 13th Gen. American

          See see. I love it. She cant even wrap his brain around any of it. WE all get it but not them. I guess were hurting them by not agreeing with them. Not one of us has said we hate him or called him names like fag or dike or any of the names that imply bigotry but he has called Us a multitude of hateful names. What if the word Christofascists caused me great mental anguish? It does imply that I am somehow associated with the left with the fascist part. That name calling does cut me deep man. Like I live in a trailer and I have flees. It cuts me deep. OH and the redneck one. Thats painfull too. How do they know if I dont have a skin condition and it attracts flees? The pain of it all is to much. But in spite of it all were the hateful bigots. JUST because we tell them their wrong. They are so so sad. To be so far removed from God that the very words of truth of Gods words bring about such irrational and enraged response. Just remember its not us he/she is mad at. Its God. It is if Gods very words are convicting their soul and it actually does hurt for them to hear it. I guess the saying “The truth hurts” is most profound with gays. Just to repeat myself I have had a lot of gay friends and have gone out in groups of gay and straight and hung out and partied and had a blast. I talked about Christ and most of them were like whatever but once in a while one of them would get outraged like he was actually being set on fire. I guess the demonic influence was horrified that the words of Christ might actually have an affect and it wasnt about to let go of the person. Some of these gays are just so deep in sin and denial that its going to take more than a few strangers chatting to have them see the light a little. Remember too it shows were at least on the right path. Jesus did say we would be hated for his sake. Its just really sad to see the likes of roden and john.
          Oh ya somewhere he goes on in a rant about not to tell him how he thinks of feels but he tells us in almost every comment how we think and feel. Whats that word???He uses it alot? OH YA Hypocrite.

        • B-Man

          Rodin, you just really don’t get it. IT’S ALL ABOUT SAVING OUR SOALS. That’s it period. We are only here on this planet with all of our skills, disadvantages, handycaps good bad and ugly to search out truth. God gave us a hand book and a history of his walk on this earth with lessons and examples to learn from so we can sit with him in Heaven. It’s not about doing what feels good or I want my rights. Everything in life of value and substance has a foundation and does not stand on sand. That is unstable just like questionable lifestyles.

          • BARBIE

            But Gentlemen. I once heard an old x-marine pastor tell the sheep to.”go fishing for men but don’t beatem’ to death with the anchor.” Now go fishin’ in a new lake. We’ve beat this fish up pretty good, don’t ya think?

        • http://donthaveone Mark

          See, I see no where in here where you are causing him harm, or denying him civil writes, but that is what Rodin somehow pulls out of your response. How? Can you tell me how this works? There is nothing there. You tell him about Gods love and how the Bible is full of love, and he gets out of it that Christians are hurting an denying him, yet it is us, the Christian, that actually gets down on our knee’s and prays to our Lord Jesus Christ to reveal the truth to him, that he may walk upright in the light, and see and hear the truth, yet his life is revolved around hating everyone that is not like him. Its so sad.

        • rodin

          My soul is fine thank you very much… and I’m perfectly fine with my god’s love. What bothers me is not that you say your god loves me but that after he loves me, I’m supposed to accept that some people can’t visit their partners in a hospital because they’re not legally married or that one can pay for insurance their entire life and their partner can be denied the benefits or that property can legally be entitled to pass to the other upon death, or that two people can register as a couple in a hotel on vacation without running afoul of local laws. There are over 200 similar secular “rights” that are completely denied to married lesbians and gay men. This shouldn’t happen in a respectful society where I and them are so well loved.

          • Cawmun Cents

            I have yet to be denied access to visit anyone in a hospital.I am not gay,nor was I related to or married to the people I visited in the hospital.If it is a question of contagion or endangering others,I am quite certain that I will be stooped at some point,but I have yet to be denied access to vist when I was present at a hospital.

        • B-Man

          Ok, lets put it so even you can understand.
          1) 2 men cannot make a baby nor can they carry one.
          2) 2 women cannot make a baby together
          3) Nature (God) did create the planet and the enviornment in which
          we live in with out doubt. Im not going into all the scientific reasons
          how if even one tinny thing in our atmosphere was off, or that if the sun
          were even 2″ closer we would be toast or all those things. Im sure you
          think man created all this perfect harmony with nature and
          rain and clouds and even how a forest needs natural fires to regenerate
          itself. You guys are the end all to mother earth.
          4) Because we all know the chicken came before the egg that God created
          us to reproduce for his glory to come and sit with him for eternity.
          5) That being said, he provided us with a book called the Bible which has
          many testimonies, quotes, laws all and the story of his walk here on
          earth to save us from sin ( from sin)
          6) One of his very clear laws was homosexuality was an unacceptable
          lifestyle and Rome was runining ramped with it. Were are they?
          Because of their defiance with nature Africa has major issues, people
          here have major issues personally and health issues. It’ not natural !!!
          7) We have a set of laws written by great men who believed in what was
          written in that book. They gaged their lives by it and wrote the most
          amazing Constitution and Bill of Rights that is the envy of the world.
          Why do think all these Religious nations are trying to kill us?
          8) I had a friend in highschool that after we finished college we got together
          and bought rental property and signed a contract and power of attorney
          forms so we each could have access to our records. wow! how about
          that. Oh my God! isn’t that amazing. Signed a power of attorney form
          and we both have access to the books and the land and even ownership
          upon one or the others death.
          9) Marrage and the sanctity of the word itself and the natural state of nature
          and how we all fit into the circle of life does not include 2 men and 2
          women doing each other and then raising kids to think like that. I don’t
          know how or why these feelings are in gays but I know that ripping apart
          moral sociaty and confusing people with words like equal rights and
          fairnesss, for a lifestyle choice,is just a stinking lie. Their lifestyle
          preference ( and thats all it is) is un-natural and does not fit into natures
          circle of life as normal.
          10) And a final note: You keep saying that now that God loves me Im
          supposed to accept that gays can’t share each others investment and
          all the things Married people have. Guess what. Not under the sanctity of
          Gods defenition of Marrage. We are a Christian nation by the
          Constitution and the Bill of Rights. That is our heritage. Other countries
          don’t follow Gods teachings so there are plenty of places to live that
          lifestyle.
          Not Here.

      • Denise

        It’s abnormal to be homosexual.You are breaking God’s law.You think you’d be here if your Dad was gay?!!!

        • rodin

          I think the world will continue to populate itself very nicely with the 90% of the population that is straight. I’m not too worried about ensuring that every last person on earth procreates every time they have sex.

      • Denise

        You are in danger of hell fire if you call someone an idiot.You are judging yourself by the way.You think that under our government you have a right to any sexual perversion you like?No our preamble to our constitution is very clear where our rights came from:GOD!

        • rodin

          I’m ok with your hell fire.. What I’m not ok with is your gay-bashing – you want to put people into different classes of societal worthiness based on your beliefs. Move to IRAN…. they have your theocracy. Ayatollahs rule!

      • http://donthaveone Mark

        Im trying to understand why you can call me a christofacist, and that is ok with you, and all Ive said is that God has rules we all are held to, and Im a hater? How does that work with you? How can you possibly justify calling me a christofacist, which is a hate crime in my book, and I have called you nothing, just trying to educated you to the point that one day, you, along with I and everyone else, get to give an account of ourselves to God. But why is it ok for you to hate on one group of people like this? Isnt that what I keep hearing you complain about, that people are hating on you because your ideas are different? You feel entitled to your beliefs and desires, and screw anyone who thinks different, and you are allowed to hate on them to your hearts content, yet nobody else is entitled to their wants and beliefs in your world. How stinking shallow can you get man. You want loved, you want accepted, then brother you better start loving and accepting those that are different from you also. By the way, that is a Biblical thing you know, to reap what you sew. To do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Maybe that is why it seems you are under attack by certain groups, when you refer to them as chistofacist? Well, you reap what you sow, so get over it.

        • rodin

          I will answer each of your questions. First of all the term Christofascist is not one of hate. It is a simple fact. Regardless of whether you are Christian, the fact is that you would IMPOSE your morality on others, irrespective of their beliefs. That makes you fascist – hence the term Christo-fascist. Not hate… strictly FACT.

          I have not shown any hate. I have not expressed any desire to take anything away from you. I have not indicated you should be treated as a 2nd class citizen in society. These are what you and your friends are advocating. I am perfectly fine letting you believe in anything you want to and supporting your right to believe in it, as long as you don’t advocate hurting others, which you are.

          You can have all your own desires and live your life the way you want… and you and I will never have a problem, until you decide to fight against one group of the population because you consider them sinners. Their sin, your sin… I dont care about sin…. what you need to do is stop hating and hurting homosexuals. I certainly am not out to take any of your rights away except if you believe you have the right to IMPOSE your beliefs and morals on somebody else.

          • Cawmun Cents

            So then…when the child molester,or the person who engages in beastiality decides they have their rights too,then we should let that form of prversion thrive in our nation by law as well?Is that what you are claiming?Yes by all means let us take everyones claims of sexual deviancy to the task.we have to decide whether there is a right way of doing things or there is a left way of doing things.What the left doesnt understand is that they will be used as pawns in a game just as was done in previous history.Then when they think they have won the day,they will be subjected to their own”Night of the Long Knives”by the same folks they protested side by each with.Yes,you can hate Christians,and line up next to Muslims thinking that they will support your cause my leftist rubes,but dont be surprised when you find yourself next to a Christian who is willing to die for you as a fellow American.We dont call that by a fancy name like “martyrdom”,we just call it love.

        • http://donthaveone Mark

          It seems to me Rodin seeks to impose his life style upon me, where he wants special treatment and special rights. No where did I try to impose “My” morality on you. I exposed you to Gods truth which you undoubtedly reject, but it isnt my morality. Its Gods, he said it, not me. I trust Him and believe in Him and his words, but I aint the guy that made the rules, and I aint the guy that enforces the rules, and Im surely not the guy who will pass judgement one day on the rules. Ok, lets get that straight. You seek to take from me my right to define Marriage as a man and a woman. What do you benefit? What I benefit is this – Paul said it is better for us to be like him, which was a virgin. But he said, if you cannot control your desires, than you should get married, where God has placed His blessing on a man and wife to be fruitful and multiply. We are born with the desire to have sex, God created it, its great, and the Bible is full of instruction on abstaining from sex until marriage, and hey, I did that. Now ok, I understand your saying you want equality and want to get married to, but when God says what he says about same sex unions, maybe its me dude, but I have a hard time reconciling that he would bless that marriage, no more than he would bless mine if I was running around with other women. It would defile the marriage, and it would be reduced to nothing but a piece of paper, and I do agree with your earlier accessment that a lot of heterosexuals have screwed things up, and yes they have clearly defiled the act of marriage, severely, so severely. But again, I didnt write the Bible, I didnt make the rules, I just try to abide by them, and its hard sometimes, real hard. Some of you think that being a Christian were supposed to be perfect. Right, good luck with that. Were sinners, just flesh and blood. Some think that being a Christian that life is easy now. Nope. Satan kicks up his attack on a Christian married couple more than on anyone. Hey if he takes us down, he gets a two for one cash in. I just know who to turn to when the temptation comes, and only Jesus Christ leads me through the day. I dont impose my morals on you, and I havent. Ive just told you what God says about things, and you my friend can accept them or reject them, and I fully support your freedom to do so. I wouldnt force you or anyone else to do anything. I cant change anyone, only a relationship between God and man can change the way we view things. Thats it. So please stop looking at me as the enemy, because it isnt me, and it isnt God.

      • Denise

        Homosexuality isn’t a civil right.It’s a sexual preference!

        • Smilee

          Every court that has ruled on this issue to date has not come to that conclusion. California changed their state constitution and then the court supported it but not before and the US court has never ruled on and if they ever do and find it a civil right then California’s will be voided.

      • keith

        blah blah blah…at least you kept that goofy rant short…blah blah blah

    • Andrew Klein

      Multiple marriage partners are not forbidden by God. Solomon had many wives plus over 700 concubines. Our damn government bureaucrats came up with that law.

      • Cawmun Cents

        Ah yes Mr.Klein,but you nust make sure that you tell the rest of the story.Solomon did what was evil in Gods sight.His many wives turned him to Idolatry and led him away from what he was told to do by God.God promised him that the nation would be divided if he went that route.He did,it was,the rest is a matter of Biblical proportion.You see sin may not effect us in the afterlife if God has forgiven us,but there are consequences to every sin that we commit.Some of them may be down the line in our lives,but

  • http://sushoup999@hotmail.com Susan

    Marriage is a union between a man and a woman. Every civilization has endorsed this truth. It is a covenant in blood. The first man and woman (Adam and Eve) sinned, a covering of animal skin (the first shedding of blood) was placed upon them. God proclaimed their union “very good” and performed the first marriage ceremony before witnesses, God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
    When a man and woman consummate their vows through intercourse, blood is shed within the womb. Children are born in water and blood.
    Gays can not reproduce. It is unnatural and against the Laws of God.
    I respect the former, VP and his daughter. I believe that if people want to have a commitment/union – call it whatever; anything but MARRIAGE which is elevated to a higher position giving humans a share in divinity by the power of creating another human life. It is sacred and not up for grabs but those who profess alternate life styles. They can do their thing and share each others company, time, wealth, etc….but MARRIAGE and its rights must be kept unmarred by anything other than what is has been defined as throughout all of time…. ONE MAN, ONE WOMAN.

    • John S

      Your post is sure cannon fodder for the rest of us.
      Lets take your post point by point.

      If Adam and Eve had not sinned then this would have been a nudest camp. Seems sinning was the only they got clothes.

      “When a man and woman consummate their vows through intercourse, blood is shed within the womb.”
      OK that means there is no such thing as the “CONSUMMATION of marriage to those who are not virgins.
      NO CONSUMMATION-NO MARRIAGE. (“Gays cannot produce”) OK that means reproduction is the only way marriages are honored by God. IN THAT CASE every marriage which does not produce a child is mute. It is not a marriage. OK lets “null and void” every marriage that has not produced a child or at least until they do.

      I and my 3 siblings were adopted, but that doesn’t count any more than the WONDERFUL GAY folks that are adopting children every where. I guess my parents were not married all those 61 years.

      (“I believe that if people want to have a commitment/union – call it whatever; anything but MARRIAGE which is elevated to a higher position giving humans a share in divinity by the power of creating another human life”) YOUR WORDS.

      Quite frankly SUSAN we could give a big ca-hoooot what you want to call it
      the bottom line is we want legal equality. We’re tired of not having the same rights
      all 1000 of them you have.

      Gay folks do not want their marriages defined by a bunch of hypocrites who marry and devorice time, and time, and time, and time again, that break homes devide siblings, have kids out of wedlock, abandon them, and scream like hell when gay couples adopt them, and give the best life they could have ever had.

      • 13th Gen. American

        Thats the stupidest point by point to get your point across I ever heard. Gays,and I know alot of them, on whole dont stay with one person either. Especially the men. Yes there are a few who do but come on now . You can cry and carry on like little kids not getting what you want but if its wrong its wrong. Many gays break up and what happens to the kids? And that whole blood shed consummation thing just made me laugh out loud so thanks for that. You have face God just like the rest of us and I hope He lets us see all you argue this point with him. And of course all gays give the kids the best life they ever had. OK so you all are perfect and the rest of us are all hateful hypocrites. ONE big problem with your theory there pal. Without all us people having kids and destroying them and throwing them away, where would you get yours???It seems to me you need a MAN and a WOMAN to have babies. So without GODS most wonderful plan that yes we screwed up there would have been about 4 naked people on earth before human kind died off if your way of thinking is so right. Mr Cheney has a daughter that is gay and a parents opinion can be swayed by love and emotion. We dont hold that against him.
        On a side note if you dont agree with us its OK and you all are just enlightened perfect people. But if we dont agree with you we are hypocrites, hate mongers, stupid and mean and God is wrong. You all prove to the rest of the world with your point by point craziness and hate filled rants just who the hypocrite are.

        • Kim McGough

          Go for it 13th, some make you want to laugh and some make you want to cry, people will hear, see, believe, just what they want to, No amount of reasoning will change that. God gave people free will, and they sure it. These blogs go to show how much hate there is in the world. It will sure be hard on the ones that hate so much at the end. Love is the only thing that we really have that keeps us sane. Freedom and equality is only provided by love, and as Jesus said, even a sinner has love for his own. We should love our enemies and pray for them, that some day they will see the light,. but it will take God to do that for them. God bless you

        • Poppy

          Here comes Peter Cottons Tail,
          Poppin round the Bun-Bun Trail, YEEEEEEEEE-HAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!

        • John S

          13th Gen. American
          YOUR QUOTE
          June 5th, 2009 at 2:53 pm

          Having a progressive administration allows for any body to do anything they like as long as it gets them votes. Every one does deserve to be loved. Go love whoever you want. Just dont justify your actions by making it legal. We dont care about property values. We care about moral values and your way of life and thinking being an infulence to our children. Do whatever you want but dont force it on us to accept it as right when its not.

          YES, old trailers don’t have much value no matter what you do to them.
          You don’t have to accept anything. But don’t think it’s not going to be legal.
          Six states down 44 more to go. There is just no stopping us. Now go back to your trailer, and for Gods sakes get all those dead cars out of the front yard.

        • rodin

          He pleads the point that gays can raise children at least as equally lovingly as straight couples, that he is tired of being discriminated against and hurt by all the ignorant bigots out there…. and how do you respond…… by more of the same bigotry and hate. You have no respect for your fellow human beings, you have no capacity to live according to the faith you espouse, essentially you’re bullying hypocrites. And Poppy, WTF was that… are you seriously still in 3rd grade. I understand Mr 13, because he has a lot of hate and probably never emotionally progressed in life, but if you’re going to debate something try to make a reasonable point.

          • keith

            blah blah blah blah blah…..(long winded rant!) blah blah blah blah….

        • 13th Gen. American

          When we do make a reasonable point you dont get it and all you can say your spewing hate. You will never get a reasonable point because nothing you have said is reasonable.Your thought process is on the same level as a small child not getting what she wants. You just have the same rant over and over that if we dont agree with you we are the haters and bigots but it is you with your own hateful words that have proven to us all what you are. Why cant you accept us and let us live and think what we want and live in peace with us? Cant do it can you. You can dish it but you cant take it. Do whatever you like. You have to answer to God just like everyone else but your delusional rants wont work on him either.

        • http://donthaveone Mark

          This truly does amaze me. I never once spoke a word of hate about it, told the guys that allthough I dont accept this lifestyle, and provided the scriptural verses to show why, and allthough I have clearly stated that I have never hated on a gay, or chastized them, or castigated them, but just treated them as I do anyother human being. Then those like Rodin come back with calling me a hate filled hypocrite and everything else. So I agree with you, as to why they want, demand and need all this special treatment, to be put on a pedestal and given special treatment to make them feel better, but I am slammed on, called a hater, called a hypocrite and am not allowed to have my thoughts, feelings, or preference’s even stated. Another case of the double standard that so many groups cry for. They want accepted, and make a total spectacle of it, shoving their way down everyones throats, yet nobody is allowed to have an alternative way to their way. Sorry, I will reserve my right to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ, and I will reserve my right for both myself and the gays and all other walks of life, to all have our day of judgement bowed before Jesus Christ, to give an account of ourselves. I dont make the rules, they dont make the rules, but the one who does gets to make the final call. I believe that to be pretty fair, and if one takes issue with that, then strap on the boxing gloves and go a few rounds with God, but your arms arent going to be long enough. I guarantee it.

        • BARBIE

          to 13th Gen,America:

          But Gentlemen. I once heard an old x-marine pastor tell the sheep to.”go fishing for men but don’t beatem’ to death with the anchor.” Now go fishin’ in a new lake. We’ve beat this fish up pretty good, don’t ya think?

      • Peter Melville

        Statistically gay couples have more split ups and violence than true marriages. Anger is very evident in gays as well as a get even attitude.

        • John S

          That is such BS

        • rodin

          Regardless of the truth of your statement…. how is it relevant to ensuring equal rights.

          • keith

            blah blah blah….

      • John S

        The blood shed thing came from and was a quote from your friend Susan.
        Maybe you should read more.

        • 13th Gen. American

          Ya know THE most funniest thing. Every time they call names one of the top 5 is “trailer park” related. Well I met the nicest gay couples and hung out with them for a bit and youll never guess where they lived….Yep thats right. In the trailer park. I myself live in a nice upper middle class neighborhood thank you. Redneck is a big one for them. Went to a gay picknick and it was in PA. BIG party. Guess where alot of them were from….Yep West Virginia. Guess what too. There were 3 roomates. 2 of them have known each other since high school(slept with each other) and for about say 25 years they keep a running count as to who slept with the most people. Last I heard about 7 years ago it was pushing 300. Thats three hundred!!!!! One of them had a son. I thought they were the nicest people. I hung out with them alot for quite a few years till the one died of…..yep you guessed it, aids. So all this bla bla bullshit of how they ALL want to be married is just so ridiculous. Yes it will be the entire country will be all for gays getting married and killing babies and every perversion under the son. ONLY because God said it would. Its all in revelations.You all think your all so self righteous because your changing the laws and america by making it progressive. You only are doing it because God is allowing it to happen to bring upon the second coming of Christ. People like the conseritives are trying to keep it from happening so soon because no matter how shitty life can be it is still a most wonderful ride on this planet we have. We have eternity to be in heaven with God because of Christ. We only have but a moment here and were trying to make the most of it. Thing is, The rest of us have to suffer for your sins and the sins of our leaders. I dont know how long we have left but Pray mercy and blessings on those of us who havent turned our backs on Christ. No body is perfect and none of us get out of here alive but Ill not let my family suffer the same fate as Lot if I can help it.

        • debra

          john S….no matter how much love you feel for your “man” having sex via the rectum where stool is excreted…is not NATURAL or NORMAL!!!

      • http://donthaveone Mark

        And I am a Christian and I want equal rights, that when someone like you unleashes vitrial hatred towards me, I want the same right you have, that it be considered a hate crime and you go to jail for it. If you want equality, it has to be this way all around. I am totally against hate groups, whether it be gay-straight, black-white, anything. But why is it everyone is allowed to perform hate crimes on the Christian, and we are not afforded the same rights as gays and blacks when someone perpetuates hate upon them. These people should be punished for this, and rightfully so. So should gay groups when they openly assault Christianity. It is no different. Stop hating on me. While you spend your time hating on me, I spend mine praying for you, not that you will become like me, because Im not any better than you. But praying that your eyes and ears will be opened to the truth, because brother, my eyes and ears were closed for 40 years, so I know what its like to be in the dark, and I know what it is like to be in the light. It isnt something my grandmother told me, or a fairy tale as a guy named Rodin calls it. When you receive Jesus Christ, its not an earthly thing, one of the world could possible understand. It is a God thing from the spiritual realm, that I never understood either, like I said for 40 years. I do understand now, and I do see and and hear and believe me, I didnt before. I did a lot of disgusting and vile things in my past, but at the time I was doing them, Id never have admitted to it. No way, no how. I see my old self in Rodin, and its a heartbreaker man. I had so much pain and didnt even know it, and I caused a lot of people a lot of pain. I have been delivered from these demons, and the heavy burden of sin that weighed me down has been lifted, and Im here to tell you, because Ive been there, until you receive Jesus Christ, youll never know how good life can be, and what the truth is.

        • rodin

          Thanks for your thoughts Mark, but I don’t hate extremist bigotted Christians, I merely want to protect myself from them. They’re the ones that cast the first stone by denying rights to those they don’t like. I’ve never denied any Christian any of their rights. They can do as they please as long as they don’t try to hurt others.

          And I’m very happy you’ve found your own spirituality, but it appears you still retain a lot of your darkness in the way you vilify gays and their lifestyles. If that’s your Jesus then I think he’s changed a little in the last 2000 years. Maybe you need to go back and learn his love instead of imagining his hatreds.

          • keith

            and again!,blah blah blah blah blah….blah blah….blah blah…blah blah……

        • http://donthaveone Mark

          Rodin, you are extremely wrong on this. Jesus hasnt changed a bit over time. He is the same God of old, never changing, ever loving. He loves you, but dont expect Him to change His views on homo-sexuality. It was decided at our creation that it was to be man and woman. It was decided that it was and is an abomination to Him for a man to sleep with another man like like he would a woman. Dont kill the messenger. I dont make the rules, and I dont enforce them. Im a sinner that breaks them time to time, and believe me I try not to, but Im human, I do. But I do know what is right from wrong, and I do try and I have changed much about the way I live my life and carry myself and the things I do. But I dont expect God to change the design of His things to fit my lifestyle or choices. It is clearly me that needed and still needs change in areas. But no. God clearly HAS NOT changed since then. He is the same God.

      • http://donthaveone Mark

        Ive probably said enough in all my posts here, but one more for the road. John, its like this man. Its an exit chute. Its mean for exit only, on both man and woman, its an exit only orifice. To want to shove your willy in it is perverted, and with your own sex, its demented. Sorry dude, just the facts.

        • rodin

          Mark you have an inordinate interest in what other people are doing with each other. Chill and worry about where you place your own (WORD REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT).

          • keith

            blah blah blah blah….

          • Curious

            whoops ………… can I offer some words to put in your mouth?

        • Smilee

          Mark

          exit only, really, my wife loves it, never thought of her as perverted, it sure makes her happy

          • Curious

            are you sure that she isn’t faking it?

        • http://donthaveone Mark

          Come on Smiley, who else but you would come out and post that. Thanks a lot man. I was just getting to where I thought Id like to sit down and have a beer with you, and bam, there you go. Why you do me like that bro?

      • Denise

        The gay lifestyle is perverted sex.It doesn’t honor anyone and especially God.To promote this evil as okay is going to bring down America.Wealth comes from God.Food comes from God.Water comes fromGod.You won’t survive very long without those if God does away with all three.

      • Denise

        We’re not hypocrites!We’re stating a God given truth!If you want to argue with God go ahead.But in the end you’ll lose!

        • rodin

          Denise – you can believe in God all you want… you can believe every word in the many books of the old testament and follow that up with the new testament. You can branch into Islam, maybe get into some of the teachings based on newer prophets….. I don’t care. We as a pluralistic society of many different peoples have to set up rules so we can all live together respectfully. Unfortunately, you would have us create a theocracy where Christian priests set up all the rules and everyone was a second class citizen. That can’t work.

          What can work is if we all realize that everyone has the right to be who they are, believe in who they choose and be granted all the same rights as everyone else. That way everyone gets to meet their own god (or not) and HE or SHE can figure out how good they were. So please just chill and stop telling me how God doesn’t like gays. It doesn’t matter in this argument!

          • keith

            rant rating:8,blah blah blah blah blah….

      • JOSH

        American Patriot, I admire your desire for peace and unity.
        But sometimes, you just have to admit the truth. ON THIS ISSUE, WE ARE NOT UNITED.

        And in this issue, the HOMOSEXUAL COMMUNITY HAS BEEN THE AGGRESSOR by
        trying to redefine the Sacred Union of MARRIAGE into something it is not and something that GREATLY MOCKS AND OFFENDS MANY MANY PEOPLE OF FAITH !! You cannot just take something that so many hold to be SACRED and desicrate it’s meaning and not expect to bring anger and condemnation upon yourself.

        If I spit on a Muslim’s Koran (and I never would)- would I not deserve his anger and outrage.

        The homosexual community has spit on marriage – and acts shocked by the anger THEY have provoked.

        Marriage has certainly been held to be the SACRED union of a Man and a Woman in the presence of God – by the Judeo/Christian community for OVER 5,000 YEARS. Think about it. You’re attacking what many believe to be the most basic pillar of civilization – and that belief has been held for OVER 50 CENTURIES. We believe Marriage and the traditional family unit (in as much as it can be lived) to be the basic building blocks of civilization ! If peace and love and unity can be nurtered in the family, it can grow elsewhere. Having a LOVING father AND mother is the most beneficial environment for a child to grow up in. If one parent leaves the family and the other single parent must raise the child, well God bless them and help them to do the best that they can. God is Good, so He will. But we, as a society can still aim for the ideal – BOTH: A LOVING MOTHER AND FATHER.

        Gays want to adopt children. Read the previous post above this one. That is one of the main reasons they want to receive all and any rights that a legally married couple has.

        And if we, as a society, say OK ? What are we saying ?
        We’re then actively destroying the above ideal.
        We’re saying, “a child doesn’t need a mom. Mom’s are unnecessary.”
        Two men are just as good. What are we doing to that child by forever denying it the love of a Mother. And then that child will be pushed into the homosexual lifestyle.

        There are many, good and loving married couples (mother + father), who are waiting YEARS, to adopt a child. There is no lack there of.

        But the homosexual is not content to ‘just’ destroy the meaning of Marriage, he wants to also redefine the word family.

        To attack those ideals is wrong.

        To try to redefine them is a SACRILEDGE TO PEOPLE OF FAITH.

        You, yourself, may not believe in God, and that is your right as an American. But my right as an American is to speak out with anger when someone wants to take what I hold as HOLY and SACRED and wants to piss all over it. Excuse the language, but it best defines what they are doing.

        THE HOMOSEXUAL COMMUNITY GLEEFULLY DESICRATES WHAT IT KNOWS TO BE SACRED AND REVERED BY SO MANY . . . . AND THEN ACTS SHOCKED WHEN IT RECEIVES SUCH STRONG ADMONISHMENT AND ANGER

        If you want to live together – go do so, few will bother you.
        If you want to call it BY ANOTHER NAME – go do so, few will bother you.

        But when you wish to redefine the most basic fabric of our society – marriage and the traditional family – YOU are the one picking the fight.

        Make no mistake, WE weren’t the ones to start this.

        I pray that people who read this will understand why this is such an important issue and why the majority of people in this country feel so stongly about Marriage being firmly defined as 1 MAN + 1 WOMAN.

        • American Patriot

          Hey Josh, I can’t argue with you on any points you have made. it is as it is. I don’t like being around those people myself. I personally think that they are a sick and disgusting group of people. Catholic Priest’s attacking young children in the church? That was not the church! That was sick “VILE” homosexual’s that were attacking those young children. And, then what made it even worse yet was the Catholic church trying to sweep it under a rug by hiding those people that molested those children. And, I am sure that it is still going on to this day somewhere in our world. and, by the same people. So, yes! I can’t argue with anything that you said. I have to make a point here while we are on the subject of church. It is so watered down in terms of content these days. It’s not even funny. I myself had to get out of that environment. I could see this coming many years ago. I would not allow myself or my family to be a subject of such behavior in our lives. at the same time, I would not give into hating these people. Just their lifestyle. It is not normal. No matter how they might try to water down and convince the world otherwise. They must realize that with every action. There is equal reaction. Yet, They still try and push people into their sick world of depravity. That goes for the church as well. But, not all the people in the church. I’m sure that I will get some flack there on that statement. But, If a person is really honest with himself/herself, They will see that there is a lack of many things that should be in the church. But, “is not”. By their fruits, Ye shall know them. weather it is good or bad. The Gift’s? Remember? The greatest is “LOVE” And, That my friend, is “not” an easy one to grasp/embrace. So, In my mind. A peaceful and quiet resistance is in order. If, the so called Christian’s would stop with the Holier than thou attitude with the T-shirt wearing their religion like a cheap cardboard sign posted on a fence for all to see. And, get back to the basics. then maybe things will turn around for the better for all of humanity. And, as far as the “GAY” people. Let them continue with their hateful attacks. That will only turn more and more people against them. We can stand our ground. And, yet still be loving. It’s all about getting back to the basic’s. Our world history has shown us this time and time again.

    • http://donthaveone Mark

      Amen. I respect that as human beings we are not perfect, and are subject to sin. I fall quite often. I know that being a homo is a sin, or it would not be written : “for a man to sleep with another man as he would a woman, is an abomination to the Lord.”. Sorry, its wrong, its a sin, and its a perverted thing. When I get angry and swear, its sin. One isnt worse than the other, just a sin is a sin. Robbing someone is a sin. Cheating on your wife is a sin. Murdering someone is a sin. Since all these fall under the sin category in the Bible, why is the government dictating that its ok for gays to marry? What happened to the separation of church and state? You cant have it to rule in favor of the Bible, so you certainly cant have to to rule against it either. How can you take an unholy union, and call it a holy union under God’s eyes. What God has brought together, let no man part. Oh yeah, I forgot they can take God out of everything, because according to them He doesnt exist. What a mess we have made out of society, that men dont even know they are men, and women dont know they are women. Where did we get so far off track? I dont gay hate, or gay bash, and I dont believe in it. But I guess it is just not a normal thought process for me, to go to the beach, and see some guys hairy butt, and think “oh yeah, Im not leaving until I get to know that”. Where does that come from? Holy crap man. Its just not the way God designed us, and yes, I can say that, and yes, I do know that. When I accepted Jesus Christ as my saviour, my eyes and ears were opened, and I do know right from wrong. Deep down inside we all do, but we just chose so much to do the wrong thing. thats the way it is.

      • Kim McGough

        Good for You. God only joins His children in marriage, and if one of His children marry outside of the family of God, He will honor that marriage. But all that are unsaved are not children, just part of the creation. You became a child of God when you accepted Jesus Christ. You may email me if you want to.

        • 13th Gen. American

          No, I think we are all Gods children. He made us all. Its just that we all cant share in the inheritance of heaven if we choose not to have Christ as our savior . We all sin and come short of the glory of God. A christian just knows he aint getting there on his own merrit and knows Jesus died on the cross for our sins. Its a free choice to take that gift or not. We are all given the same choice. He loves us all. A person can love all his children but if there is 1 that is rebelous and sinfull the parent can cut him out of the will and he doesnt receive the inheritance that would have been his if he chose to live his life different. God does love us all but if we do not choose Christ we are cut off from the kingdom of God and the inheritance of eternal life with Christ. Also the devil does have run of the place down here and he defends his own and keeps them deceived. Thats why the more we take God out of our society the more control Satan has over it and people and the less freedom Christians will have. I may never meet any of you here on earth but I will look for you all in heaven. Who knows. If we pray enough together for Roden and John maybe we will see them there someday too.

          • BARBIE

            Well said and “Amen”

        • Kim McGough

          To 13th, I would like for you to read 1st Corinthians 7 vers 12 – 17; very carefully

        • 13th Gen. American

          Ya that talks about marriage. You said they are not his children just a creation. We are all equal and loved by God. Jesus died for ALL of us. Gay straight liers cheaters murders.etcetcetc. “For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Right but then, The most important one of all. Most known John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave his only begotten Son that WHOSOEVER believeth in him shall have ever lasting life. :17 For God sent his Son not into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him may be saved.
          I think the words whosoever and world pretty much means everyone. We are given a choice. God gave us all life but through Jesus we have ETERNAL life. The gays are not less human or loved by God. They are just rebelious and have chosen not to believe or follow what he says. Some times I choose not to the right thing but Im not going to justify it by saying its OK . The only real difference between a christian and not is we’re forgiven through Christ and we have that eternal life.

        • Kim McGough

          13th, you completely missed the point, yes Jesus came to save ( The world) and all that is in it, only people have that choice. But the point is that Paul said that if at least one was not of the family of God, meaning being saved, that their children would be bastards. And in that case that means that they are not of the Father.

      • rodin

        Well Mark, you seem to be equating sin with secular crime. I’m not going to be comfortable with that. Societal and civil penalties belong only to the crimes judged to affect the well being of all of us, including those that don’t follow your own scripture or interpration. You say that murder and stealing are sins, fine, they’re also civil crimes. Adultery a sin… fine in your world, but there’s no way I’m going to stone a woman to death over it. Covetting thy neighbor’s wife… I mean hey she looks really good, but you can’t send somebody to jail for having illicit thoughts… You want to masturbate and feel guilty… that’s your perogative and maybe the guilt is part of the pleasure for you. What I’m saying is there is a difference between sin and crime. If you want to equate the two then I hear Iran and Saudi Arabia try to do that very well.

        • http://donthaveone Mark

          Sorry pal. A sin is a sin is a sin. Some are crimes, you are correct. But in Gods eyes, not mine, not yours, a sin is a sin is a sin. This comes from reading His word, where it is pretty darn clear on this stuff. One can try to justify their sin, but it doesnt work. I believe thats why it is written “there is a way to a man that seems right, but it is the way of death.”

        • rodin

          Mark I dont know why you’re apologizing but you basically paraphrased what I said. Sins are for god to sort out, not us. We can only mete out punishment for crimes. So, be happy knowing that your god will sort everything out on judgement day and let the rest of us live in peace.

        • keith

          rant rating:6,blah blah blah blah blah….blah blah…

      • Smilee

        Wow, got a question for you Mark, if a sin is a sin and you fall often are you telling us that you are not different than any gay person?? Many of us believe the gay’s sin is of no greater than any of ours and that is why we see them as equals. It is separation of church and state not Bible and state, there are churches/religions who do not use bibles as their spiritual law, remember the Koran etc. The constitution is silent on marriage and to date all the state governments that have ruled on this have found it unconstitutional and so did California until their constitution was changed. The US Supreme Court has never addressed this issue and if they do and agree with the states then gays will be able to get married but that will not mean your church have to honor that just the states.

        • http://donthaveone Mark

          Exactly. I am the same as any hetero or any gay. Exactly. We are all the same. We all are sinners that fall short of God’s grace. It is a gift He gives us, not something that we deserve. I am no better than any man or woman that walks this earth, so dont think that because someone is a Christian that they feel that way. Quite contrary actually. We know we fall short quite often, and that we are not better than others. In fact, if someone purports themselves to you as a Christian, then tells you they are better than you, then I would have to say that person is either a hypocrite or a liar. While it is true, that we Christians may be better off than you in Gods eyes, having accepted His Son Jesus Christ as our Saviour, but it does not make us better. We are all still walking here on this earth made of flesh and blood, and we are all fallen men, born into sin from when Eve tempted Adam to eat the fruit from the tree he was forbidden to eat from. Since that day men were sentenced to work all their days, and women were sentenced to experience pain during childbirth. All a part of the fall of man as witness in the Bible. But no, I am not better than you, Im not better than a gay man, Im not better than anyone. In the end I may be better off, but for now, no, I am not nor do I think of myself as better.

        • Smilee

          Mark

          You did so well until you made this statement “While it is true, that we Christians may be better off than you in Gods eyes,…” and made the assumption that this Christian may not be as worthy as yourself in God’s eyes, this contradicted many of your other statements and made them appear hypocritical . Christ said Judge not lest you be judged. We would all be better off if accepted everyone as God’s children even the gays as many of them claim to be Christians too. When it became legal in Iowa twenty from my area (a large metro area) went to Iowa to get married and all were married in a church by a pastor. Not all Christians believe as you do and do not judge others by their sins including gays. Therein lays
          our dispute you seem to feel you can, and you feel it is OK to make laws to force your feelings and beliefs on others because of their sins whose sins you refuse to accept and to not accept them just as they are and leave this matter between them and God. I think God will bless for accepting his gay children and treating them as anyone else. Remember the golden rule “Love the neighbor as yourself” If you treat him/her, the gay person in a mean spirited and hurtful way are you loving your neighbor as yourself? I think not.

          “While it is true, that we Christians may be better off than you in Gods eyes,…”

        • Curious

          Question for ya “Smilee”; ……….. Are you the only one really ‘smiling’ @ your house?

    • rodin

      “MARRIAGE” as you call it was not even a Christian concept…. People did not start getting officially married to one another for many centuries after Christ. READ your F!@#ing history. Marriage was a CIVIL mechanic created to register the union for CIVIL puposes. Even now most of our legal and tax systems recognize a marriage as a separate entity from the individual…. for CIVIL purposes only. I have no problem with anyone also wanting to perform religious rituals around the union, but as far as legislation goes, the law and fairy tales are separated.

      • Denise

        Why can’t you get the truth.In the Bible are God’s words ordaining holy matrimony.

        • rodin

          Maybe, but marriage in our secular society, is a registration with the state, and legislation refers to couples registered under state laws, with rights accorded to those registered under state law. I’m not here to take away any of your rights under god, I’m only here to ensure that the rights accorded under state laws are applied fairly to those that don’t buy into your fairy tale religion. Atheists get married to.. so do Buddhists and Taoists and Muslims…. does that mean that we shouldn’t recognize those either because they might not recognize the same intrepreted version of your god.

          Shake your head, it’s about state laws… not religion. Quit bringing your version of god into a secular argument or perhaps you want the priests and pastors to start running our country.

      • Denise

        Funny how you’re the only one hurling hate speech at others.Calling people God made idiots.Seems you’re the only one with hate speech.

        • rodin

          Really… so calling people sinners, and perverts is not hate speech? And I never called you an idiot for believing in your own god. I may have called you an idiot because you can’t see that there are other people in this world with different beliefs that are just as valid as yours. But you are so (WORDS REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT) that you can’t see that.

          For myself, Im perfectly willing to concede that there are a lot of Christians in this country, and I’m willing to live alongside them. I’d just like them to respect my ability to live my life without placing any restrictions of my personal rights.

      • keith

        rant rating:4,blah blah blah blah..blah blah blah blah…

      • BARBIE

        You are mistaken dear. Jesus turned water into wine at a wedding. There were marriages being performed back in the day of Abraham. Maybe earlier if we fully checked. Just puttin’ my 2 cents worth.

    • duane

      Susan, keep preaching JESUS to Rodon, and you and I know one day he/she will know the truth, like many others.

      • rodin

        Duane – please please please get an education, preferably from someplace outside of Texas. You can preach Jesus all you want, but I don’t see you espousing his most basic principles.

        • John S

          Rodin I have read all of your posts… and their answers.

          They are consistant in one way…..that is they never address your point. They always throw the god thing in ……and the… “you’ll find out some day thing. Why can’t they address you head on?

        • http://donthaveone Mark

          No Rodin, Duane speaks the truth. Him, I, or Susan cannot bring the light of truth, Jesus Christ to you. All we can do is witness He is the light. He will do the work, and the thing is, you can reject, reject, reject to suit rectifying the sin filled life you live in, whether it be gay, heterosexual, a murdered, a robber, a womanizer, or whatever it is. But you cannot escape the fact that sin is sin, and Jesus Christ came and took the nails for you, and I, and all, that all you have done or will do wrong, may be washed away from you by calling on His name. If that isnt Love, then there is no love to be found. Recognize the Love, or have none at all. Dont return hate for this, or accuse me of hating. This is the highest recognition of loving someone we can have, to share the everlasting Love of Jesus Christ with someone. This is truly done in Love, so please accept it as such, or deny it if you choose. But recognize the love that is intended here for you. Have a good day.

        • rodin

          Mark…. you have no love. only a desire to hurt others. If you truly loved gays you would accord them every right and respect that you yourself want to receive from others. You instead want to punish. Why don’t you leave the punishment of sin to your god…. I’m sure he’s more capable than you.

        • http://donthaveone Mark

          Jesus loves you brother. Bottom line, no matter who you are or what you do, He loves you.

        • Denise

          First Jesus said,”I and my Father are one and the same!”Get it?Jesus doesn’t condone homosexuality!

        • rodin

          I can handle Jesus loving me. Your kind of love I can do without.

        • Andrew Klein

          Hey! Texas is not religious at all. Haven’t you ever heard that the two things that come from Texas are steers and queers?

        • rodin

          Andrew – you really have a problem with drinking too much tonight. Maybe some of your friends will get together and help you out on your gay bashing. Maybe you’re really just a closet fag and you’re upset about not being able to be open with your friends. Don’t worry – when you come out of the closet there’s lots of friends that will help you.

        • keith

          rant rating:3,blah blah blah blah,(only worth 4 blahs),your slipping!

        • Curious

          Those of us within the 70% of our electorate unhappy with current political affairs live quite far away from Texas;)

      • Smilee

        It appears to me like rodin already does know, not so sure about many of you here though, it seems to me few of you are able to listen to rodin and here what he is really saying, it appears to me that you must filter it through your own biases and respond to that and not to what he is actually saying.. Open your ears and minds.

      • Smilee

        Duane

        After reading rodin’s postings,it appears to me he has already found the truth and it is you and those who agree with you who seem to be unable to know the truth, if you all would quit spinning his statements and try to fully understand what he is really saying then you could make responses that address his positions and not answering your spin on what he said. Your responses then become irrelevant to this issue because you are really answering your interpretation of what he said and not what he said. My take is you have misinterpreted most if not all of his statements. It start with listening and having an open mind. Try it.

  • David Ferera

    “Freedom means freedom for everyone,” Cheney said, adding, “I think people ought to be free to enter into any kind of union they wish, any kind of arrangement they wish.”

    I don’t think Mr. Cheney realizes the can of worms this attitude opens. Logically, if we accept this line of reasoning, fathers can marry daughters, brothers can marry sisters, and mothers can marry sons. But, hey, in our “anything goes” society, why not?

    • Robin from Indiana

      I agree with your post. You did however leave out adult/child relationships.

      Mr. Cheney is a smart man, but has let his vision be clouded by his daughter and her relationships. These comments will only hurt the GOP, not help it. And the Republican party is so divided as it is, he should have kept those comments to himself.

      Marriage should be for a man and woman only. That is how God ordained it to be and that is the way it should be!

      I truly hope that we will have a strong 3rd party come forth and pick up where the Republicans left off. They have strayed from their agenda and have gone too far left. We need leaders with morals, values, and good common sense. They seem to be far a few between right now!

      • John S

        Robin here is your quote:
        (“Mr. Cheney is a smart man, but has let his vision be clouded by his daughter and her relationships. These comments will only hurt the GOP, not help it. And the Republican party is so divided as it is, he should have kept those comments to himself.”)

        Why on earth would you say that?

        In other words, if Mr Chaney knows this to be the truth he should remain a hypocrite. His daughter is gay. He raised her. He sees and knows that he didn’t make her that way, she was borne that way.

        Even the cold blooded heartless Chaney can see that gay people are like everyone else.

        He can see that they need to love and be loved just like you. They have maternal feelings just like you. They want to work and sacrifice for the one they love and children too. But knowing all this he should shut up to placate all the wing-nut, ignorant, bigots, so they have a better chance of winning an election, forcing the rest of us to live under their narrow minded ideology.

        Did it ever dawn on you that no matter how many Gays get married and get on with their life, this will never stop you from being as conservative as you like.

        If you want to go to church every day you can. If you want to be as heterosexual as you can, nothing will change.

        If you want to marry the one you love, you can.

        Having a progressive administration allows the conservatives to be as conservative as they want in their lives. However it’s the conservatives their allies want to block and say NO to the wishes of others for their lives.

        If your neighbors were a gay couple, the only way it would effect you is raise your property value, because you can bet theirs would be the best looking house on the block.

        • 13th Gen. American

          Having a progressive administration allows for any body to do anything they like as long as it gets them votes. Every one does deserve to be loved. Go love whoever you want. Just dont justify your actions by making it legal. We dont care about property values. We care about moral values and your way of life and thinking being an infulence to our children. Do whatever you want but dont force it on us to accept it as right when its not.

        • Robin from Indiana

          Mr. Cheney’s daughter was not born ‘that way’. Homosexuality is sin. God loves homosexuals as much as any other human being. Jesus died on the cross for all of us. No matter how hard I try, I am never going to be sinless. However, homosexuals openly sin.
          You are very defensive. What the gays are trying to do is change the law when the will of people have spoken. It should be a majority rules vote. That is what our country was founded on.
          I am not naive enough to believe that homosexuality is going to just go away. Sin is always going to be with us, until Jesus returns. For those who desire to be in that type of relationship, they will have to come face to face with Jesus when they die. That’s when it really will matter.

        • Denise

          Pride goes before a fall!

    • http://donthaveone Mark

      Right. According to this thinking, one should be able to marry his dog. Or one should be allowed to have 6 or 7 wifes, if he is that much a glutton for punisment. I dont see how you can rule for one set of rules, but throw out the other. Is it not as important for a man who wants to do it with a goat, that his wants be met, as much as it is for a man that wants to butt bump another man? You tell me what the difference is? Then you add the adult-child thing. Why should their needs not count if the butt bumpers needs are counted. You start changing God’s design for us, and you open up a whole jar of satanic worms. I dont think we should let them out. But then again, the hollywood scene tells us were haters if we dont bow down and play political correctness with them. How did these immoral drug addicts, sexual misfits ever get to where what they say and think even matters? It is the sickest avenue of society out there. Do we need to be entertained by their movies that much? Unreal.

      • John S

        God you are an ignorant fool. Chaney was talking about ONE adult marring ONE other adult.

        How dare you put the polygamy thing on gay folks.

        It was you HETEROBITES that were boneing sheep on the farm

        It was you HETEROBITES that made the donkey act in Mexico famous.

        It was YOU HETEROBITES that made polygamy famous.

        You might read your bible and see that all your hero’s like Abraham and Solomon and countless others that had hundreds of wives and concubines.

        Some of them screwed their sisters and sold their daughters to lunging perverts for sex and slavery.

        You need to rap it up and tuck it in before you make a bigger fool of your self.

        • http://donthaveone Mark

          Aint got nothing to do with being gay. Its got to do with equality. If you give to one sides wants, you need to give to the others. As much as I see gay being wrong, you want it, and it looks like your needs are going to be met with this. But why are you any better than someone else that wants something different? Isnt this what you are fighting for? Dont be a hypocrite. You cant get what you want, and then screw everyone else and tell them they cant have things there way. Think about it. And no one put polygamy on gays. Did you read it? I said if you are given these rights, should not the polygamist be given his? What the hell makes you or I so much better than them? It is the same argument you are using against me and my heterosexual types. Do you think that high of yourself, that you should be allowed to marry, but that a polygamist isnt fit to? Are they not human beings also? And the goat thing was because, well believe it or not, there are some sick dudes out there that are going to raise this topic. Again, I didnt not say the gays did this, or the heterosexuals did this, but you did. You attacked me all over, when all I did was cite facts. I never once called you a name, and I never called you a polygamist or a goat screwer, but no, you in turn hated on me and called me all of these? Why? Because I dared consider that someone else besides gays and heterosexuals might want to have all their marriage concerns addressed, but according to you, no one else’s feelings about things should be considered. Imagine that, coming from you. And here I just thought you wanted to be treated like anyone else, yet you are not willing to extend that to someone different than yourself. You name call and attack. Now see, if I was afforded the same rights as a gay person, that would be considered a hate crime. But I get no such respect. And in the Bible, those things were not yet illegal or not done, as the earth was being populated in those days. But that all changed in the New Testament. You see, it used to be we couldnt eat pork either, but that changed also. It used to be we had to slaugter sheep and animals for sacrifices all the time, but when Jesus was sacrificed that was it, everything changed. And all these things you attack heterosexuals for, such as boning sheep, donkey acts and polygamy, dont think you are attacking me, because I am totally against these things also, and I would stand side by side with you in fighting against these things. They are perverted and wrong, so you know, dont try to include me in these just because Im a straight. Damn man, your kind of prejudice against me, just because I brought up the point that if gay marriage is considered, lets let other folks have their wants considered. But for some reason, you feel the way you are is better than others and that only what you wants counts. Kind of surprising hearing that from you, thats all.

        • 13th Gen. American

          You are making the biggest fool of yourself dear heart. How many jokes are there of man/sheep love? There are straight perves too but you dont see us trying to make it a law to justify it. You also made our point for us all. So the sheep lovers unite and ask to be married to your most beloved lamb because we know you were born with that love inside you. Donkey lovers of all races must come together and stand up for your right and stop the discrimination. We know its not just the mexicans. They get all the credit. Swedish donkey lovers, Irish,russian, african and all the rest. Its time for you to take credit for your love of all things hoofed. We know you have lusted after them since birth. Muskrat lovers. You know its not just a Captain and Tinneal song. Its the true meaning of your love of those soft furry critters,….. well you know. I say its time for you all to unite and join the progressive movement of “If it feels good it must be right” Why let the gays have all the fun tearing down society and turning it into a free for all. Were going to hell in a handbasked anyway. Might as well join in and well all get there a lot faster.

        • debra

          John S..you may be a very fine person …but for anyone to have sex via the rectum where stool is stored and excreted is not NORMAL or NATURAL!! Also as gay men get older..their anus is so stretched that they are unable to hold the stool and have to wear adult diapers.

        • Denise

          You comment on what you truely don’t comprehend.God told the Hebrews to marry within their own tribes.Not to marry foreign wives because it would be a thorn in their eyes.You are the one who will account to God for calling a believer ignorant when you truely are!God help us overcome you.

        • Denise

          First off God ordained marriage right from the start with Adam and Eve.It wasn’t Adam and Steve.It takes common sense to figure outthat a man and a woman get together in marriage to have a family.Gay men and women can’t procreate unless they get with the opposite sex to have a baby.

        • Andrew Klein

          Hey mister rump wrangler, that may have happened in ancient times but not so much anymore. The difference is if heterosexuals ask Jesus to forgive them and they go to heaven. Homosexuals feel no remorse about sinning and they end up humping each other in Hell.

      • Denise

        There are some Godly movies:Saving God,Second Chance,My Big Fat Greek Wedding,Kingdom Come,Ushzipin,Broken Wings.

      • Smilee

        If marriage were to be defined in our laws as between two people there is no discrimination if they are same or different sexes and that is the only question here but to obscure the issue Mark throws out examples that are totally irrelevant to this issue. None of it will ever happen. Can’t you just see the Supreme Court ruling that Mark and the goat and other animals are equals and therefore cannot be discriminated against and if Congress passed such a law as Mark suggests could happen not even liberals would re-elect them. GET REAL, MARK!!

    • Kim McGough

      People better be careful, what is next children’s rights to do as they please, We might see toodlers getting married

      • rodin

        It used to be we did. As history has progressed, the average age of unions hasa increased.

        • keith

          hasa????you finally lost your thesaurus? rant rating:1,blah blah..

      • http://donthaveone Mark

        They allready got them. Due to our so called geniuses that think they know everything some parents who know full well how to discipline their child and teach them love and the same time, go to jail because the child has been taught at public school to call social services on them if they get spanked. So now we have government interferring with raising our children at home. They have done such a wonderful job since they took discipline out of our schools, havent they.

        • Denise

          No and they will give an account to God for every evil thing they promote in our nation!

    • rodin

      That is an insane comment. Biologically, our species is driven to psychologically abhor familial sexual relationships for the purpose of creating diversity in the gene pool. It’s not a moral issue at all.

      • Denise

        You are of Satan!I bind you in Jesus name!You will go to hell for your choice of homosexual lifestyle.You’ve been warned.Now your blood is on your own head!

        • rodin

          Wow. Do I detect a threat from you? Are you going to be like that insane killer that killed the doctor or the one that walked in to the Holocaust museum. You’re not seriously advocating violence to force everyone to believe in your god are you.

      • keith

        rant rating:3,blah blah blah…..

    • Denise

      So now we can have child adult sex?Think of what your saying.It’s not okay to have sex with an animal or a child but the gay men have an organization that wants to promote sex between a boy and or baby boy.Sicko’s!

      • rodin

        WTF. Who said that it was ok. Your priests maybe….. Children in our society are protected by law. That is child abuse… has nothing to do with religion except for the fact that every Christian religion seems to have their priests and elders doing it. I’m much happier having secular laws against child abuse than following your warped leaders views and actions on diddling little kids. It’s you that are sheep and blindly follow. Use the limited brain cells you think God gave you, and you can protect your children a lot better than your church can.

        • Denise

          You’re a gay man and you don’t know about Namba an association that advocates sex between a boy and men or baby boy.

        • rodin

          That’s child abuse too and that’s illegal under our secular laws. And please quit calling me names you know nothing about. I still trust our laws to deal with child abuse more than I trust your church.

          • keith

            rant rating:2,blah blah……(worth only two blah’s!)

        • Denise

          I’m not catholic!I don’t condone any sick deviated sex acts.I have told you the truth out of love.If you don’t understand that Jesus doesn’t condone homosexual marriage or lifestyle,you aren’t reading the whole Bible.I don’t want to hit you or do anything to you.I just want you to come to the saviour.For that you call me a bigot.God help open your eyes before it’s too late.

        • keith

          rant rating:8,deserves a LOT of blah’s,blah blah blah…blah blah blah blah…blah…blah…blah…blah..blah…..

  • TeresaE

    Those that oppose freedoms, responsibilites and rights for some, oppose them for us all.

    Marriage, in the eyes of big government, is a contract entitling the holders to specific rights.

    It is unconstitutional, and immoral, to deny some people those rights based on who they love.

    Why don’t we just say, “all those named Judas are not allowed to be married, the bible says so.”

    I’m sick of these UN-CONSTITUTIONAL arguments.

    This is America and the GOVERNMENT has no right to interfere with PRIVATE contracts.

    And a marriage to Uncle Sam is nothing more than a private contract.

    • Robin from Indiana

      God’s law reigns supreme… You don’t have to agree with that, but I guarantee there will come a day that you will. God does not condone homosexual relationships. Our government can and in some states does, but that does not make it right. Marriage is for a man and a woman, end of story. Whatever the homosexuals call it, it is not a marriage. A union, a partnership, whatever, but not a marriage! Marriage is sacred in the eyes of God. Homosexual relationships are not.

      • TeresaE

        Then change the government wording of the contract.

        Leave it up to your individual church to decide what they will “bless”.

        Keep the bible’s 600 year old discrimination out of modern law.

        It is a simple solution, but most don’t want a simple solution.

        They want to be right.

        And the government wants to be big.

        The constitution, and every one of us, loses in the current scenario.

        I’m sick of both the atheists and the christians campaigning to take away MY rights.

        Neither group is right and both won’t give up.

        Which makes it really easy for the fiasco in Washington to continue on.

        And Red or Blue, we are ALL to blame for the state this country is in.

        • duane

          TeresaE, you might want to read what the bible says about homosexuality. No we all are not to blame for where we are right now.

      • John S

        Quite I could give a hoot what they call it. Just give gay folks the EXACT SAME rights that other Americans have, or quit taxing them PERIOD. Heterosexuals have made a complete mockery out of marriage. Are you afraid gay folks will have a much better track record?

        • http://donthaveone Mark

          John, you and I both know, that the statistics show that gay people move on from relationship to relationship much more than straights. And yes, straight people have made a mockery of the marriage system, so so many get married that dont even know God, that it is terrible that some so called Christian churches out there marry people without training. My church and pastor has refused to marry many people, because they either do not know God, dont want to know God, do not want to refrain from having sex until they are married, or they just plain have no reason to be getting married. Marriage is a union that God set up a long long time ago, and most heterosexuals do not want to play by His rules, so you are right on target when you say heterosexuals have made a mockery of marriage. Amen to that my gay brother. I am a heterosexual Christian myself. I just hope that you gays in getting this right, will be prepared for the money the lawyers will be after in gay divorce. Be prepared for those of you who adopt kids, for one of you to get reamed unfairly for child support, once they figure out who the man part is. I guess thats how theyll do it, thats how it works for us, the man gets screwed, so I guess they will have to figure that part out. Then there are some states that have alimony laws, where one of you will be paying the other for the rest of your life. You wont be able to get married and walk in and out without repercussions, so be prepared for that. Sometimes, we need to be careful for what we ask for, we just might get it.

        • http://donthaveone Mark

          Give me the rights that gays have. When as a Christian I am mocked, not allowed to take my Bible in certain buildings, not allowed to display the cross or talk about Jesus, I am discrimated against, and no law protects me. But your are afforded protection from groups hating on you, but Im not . Its open game on me, and I do wish I had the same protections you get, by law. I dont believe in hating on anyone, but now days, it is totally acceptable to hate on Christians, Jews, and Catholics. Everyone else is off limits. I would just like to know why we are excluded from being protected? Can anyone tell me why we fail to deserve protectionism that all other groups get? Makes me wonder.

        • Denise

          You really don’t know the truth.Gays are very violent.They don’t think twice about shattering a beer bottle over someones head if they’re angry.

      • http://donthaveone Mark

        I know it, you know it, and God knows it. Im not a basher, Im a prayer. I pray for them, and I will treat them like any other person. But it doesnt change the fact that it is wrong. It is not God’s design for us. There are those on that side who will say to me “oh like you know what God wants”. I would reply yes. I know Him, and have a personal relationship with Him. Many things have been revealed to me. But things like this, anybody knows it. It is written “for a man to sleep with another man as he would a woman, is an abomination to the Lord,”. We are also blessed with a conscience. We all know when we are doing right or wrong. We know when we take something that doesnt belong to us is wrong. We know it. It cries out to us that its wrong. When we do wrongful things that hurt someone, we know its wrong. When we have sex out of wedlock, or have extra marital sex, or cheat on a girlfriend, we know its wrong. If its something you feel you need to hide from your parents or friends at any time, you know its wrong. Thats a fact.

      • Kim McGough

        Right or wrong, live the way you want to and then when you meet God, see who you can blame. If you give everyone all the freedoms that they want, you no longer will have a country or a home because then there would be no law, and no punishment for crime. You can name call all you want, but you can never win, nor can you change a person or their thoughts. ONLY GOD HAS THAT POWER, fussing back and forth will never get you anything but satisfaction that you have spoken.

      • Kim McGough

        Go for it Robbin, right on

      • rodin

        Your god’s law may “reign supreme” for you, but there’s no way in hell it should be enshrined in our secular laws.

        • http://donthaveone Mark

          In the end, it will reign supreme for all. Bet the farm on it. Its coming, I guarantee it.

        • rodin

          That’s nice. Your guarantee and 2 bucks will buy me a coffee. It has nothing to do with what our secular laws should look like NOW.

        • http://donthaveone Mark

          This may be true to you, to protect you from me forcing my ideals on to you, and Im fine with that. However, we have so many secular laws that they dont even bother to enforce that its a joke. Like there is a law against sodomy, but you know what, its never enforced. Like there is a law on Sunday that you cant drive your car down the street without a horse tied in front of it. True law here, but not enforced. Secular law is forever changing, at the whims of man. What is legal today, may not be tomorrow. What was illegal, may be legal tomorrow. It is all at the whim of what ever group of men are in power and what they want to do, or sometimes what will make them money, which is a lot of mens god. However, spiritual law, is constant, always the same, always perfect, never changing or needing tweeking. No, it was set right the first time from the beginning, and always will be.

        • Denise

          This isn’t a secular nation!It was founded by christians.If you don’t like it get out of the country because it is a christian nation with christian principles.

          • http://n/a Winnie

            Denise, Read my comment very early on about founding fathers having founded america and made it one nation under god. I repeat, the American Natives founded North America long before Jesus was born. United States of America is not a christian nation because very, very few Christians walk the path of Jesus Christ. As I have said in another article, don’t call yourselves americans. Call yourselves correctly – if your ancestors came from Europe, than you’re a European. Another point, the American Natives walked the Truths of Jesus Christ. “For whatsoever you do unto others, you have done unto me.” All human bengs were respected for they were given life through the breath of the Great Spirit, whom you call Jesus Christ. These included the two-spirited people.

        • rodin

          Denise – We have freedom from religion to protect us from people like you. Otherwise we’d be just like IRAN.

        • keith

          rant rating;1,blah….worth only one blah….

    • Denise

      I was in the US Army for three years.The government owned me.If I got a sunburn I could get an article15.

      • rodin

        That’s nice…. They should have turfed you for being crazy.

        • Denise

          The only crazy thing is someone having annal sex.It serves no purpose.

        • Denise

          First it takes brains to fix microwave,searchlights,minddetectors,gyroscopes and wire equipment.

        • keith

          rant rating:0,worth half a blah….

    • Denise

      Freedom to do any sick thing you want?

      • rodin

        Freedom to live my life respecting others rights to living their own lives in peace and respect for each other’s persons. I realize you have no respect for my person, and would hurt people that you don’t agree with.

        • Denise

          First off I have read about homosexual men who have used hammers to smash windows and called a pastors wife and said what evil sex acts they would perform on her children.Now who’s evil?

        • keith

          rant rating:4,blah..blah..blah…blah blah blah….

  • Yourhuckleberry

    I just married a turtle. I am sure it must be legal in Connecticut. I have to go up there on a business trip and my amphibian wife wants to go with me.

    Thank goodness for those intellectuals.

    I thought about marrying a taco but I am not into short relationships like the gays.

    • John S

      What a stupid foolish argument you make. Why do some of you want to reduce another human being to an animal or object.

      • Yourhuckleberry

        Since you didn’t recognize the comment for what it was, I would assume you don’t understand that it is not I, who has reduced those people to being an animal or object. They have accomplished that on their own.

        I couldn’t care less what they do privately. They will answer to God for that.They have as their goal the right to adopt so that they can perpetuate their life styles, since they cannot reproduce.

        They want children to educate and brainwash into their life style. If you who are straight, have children, who for unfortunate circumstances, had to be put up for adoption, would you want a gay couple to adopt them?

        • John S

          You say gay folks want children to educate and brain wash. Now stop and think about what you are saying. Where do you think all the gay people came from? Gay parents? Are you crazy, it was straight parents that raised most all of us.

          Some how the straight brain washing did not wash off on us. So go figure. Do you think loving gay parents are going to brain wash little children?
          Could you be brain washed into being gay? Do you see how silly that is.

          I know 2 gay couples raising adopted children in California.
          There is no doubt these little boys are straight-8. The are attending private school and have the best of everything.

          They were adopted from drug dependent parents and have problems that have cost their loving gay parents thousands of dollars.

          They will do fine I’m sure, but they will be straight because they were born that way, but they will not be raised to be bigots. That’s all

        • Denise

          No.I think it used to be against the law to corrupt the morals of minors.That’s what our government is doing with our tax dollars in public schools across America teaching that the homosexual lifestyle is okay and handing out the pill and condoms so our youth can fornicate(sex outside of marriage=fornication).

      • 13th Gen. American

        You are reducing marriage as it has been for thousands of years for your benefit.
        Were not comparing humans to animals. But now you are discriminating other peoples love for their thing that they see is OK. They truly love children. They truly think man/ boy love is natural Its natural to love little girls,so who are you to say your love is OK but to love a child is wrong. Those people are just as convinced in their mind as you are that what they do is OK because thats how they feel and they have felt that way all their life. So whats makes you morally superior. There are a few good people that make good parents but on the whole you cant justify your sin just because your a nice person or your a good parent or by making it law or coming up with crazy excuses. Wrong is wrong.

        • rodin

          Marriage was a legal contract created waaaayyyy after Christ. You are also being incredibly hateful by generalizing that they prefer man/boy love. THEY DONT or at least not anymore than your local preacher or neighbor likes diddling little boys and girls. Gay does not equal pedophilia. That is a FACT.

          • keith

            rant rating:3 blah blah blah…

        • 13th Gen. American

          OH YA your right. People didnt get married ever in any country until waaaaaayyyyyafter Christ. What a joke! People all over the world have their own representation of what a legal contract is and the Goveriment of that country upheld it. UM you must be one of those “JAY WALKERS” where Jay Lenno asks a simple question and morons cant answer it right. You are one right? I know you are because I cant believe your comments. Really now?WAAAAYYYY after Christ. OH so those silly little ten commandments that God himself etched in stone Thou shall not commit adultery, was one pretty sure. and your right it wasnt until 1956 when it happened. I think Cecil B DeMille the great documentariest caught it all on tape as it actually happened. Funny thing tho’. Moses look strangely similar to Charlton Heston.
          Ya and Im the hateful one. Not the one actually doing the crime. But your right again. Its straight men doing little boys.

        • 13th Gen. American

          So the first recorded marriage was performed by God himself after he made Adam and Eve. I know you probably havnt read it sweetie but its in the bible. Genesis 1:27. and so God created man in his own image, male and female he created them. 28:and God blessed them and God said unto them be fruitful and multiply….. Then theres the Pharaohs who have recorded marriages and as far as I know these and all in between were WWWWAAAAYYYYYY before Christ.

        • http://donthaveone Mark

          It is sexual perversion. It doesnt make them bad, it doesnt make them dangerous. They are just sexual perverted, as is the guy who sleeps around with 10 diffferent women. So dont come back that Im hating gays. It has nothing to do with gay or gay lifestyle. It has to do with being sexual perverted, and thats what it is. You say, how do I know? Well, Id had the pleasure to hear many couples who were gay and changed, all tell me it was sexual perversion. I chose to believe the word from the horses mouth, not from my opinion or Rodin’s or from societal perception, but from those who have crossed that line, lived it, and changed. They ought to know more than I or someone stuck in it.

        • Denise

          It’s not okay to have sex with an infant!

    • TeresaE

      Marriage is a contract

      Turtles, and minors, cannot LEGALLY enter into a contract.

      This argument is the lowest level of stupidity and a basic misunderstanding of contract law.

      • Kim McGough

        The way this country is headed it might not be long before they can, who knows what is next in line

      • Yourhuckleberry

        Teresa

        Your reply indicates you level of understanding—need I say more. You must be one of those wannabe Lawyers or maybe an inept paralegal

        You missed the point.

      • 13th Gen. American

        Well gays getting married is not law or a legal contract and your trying to change it into one so with your theory you have found a lower level of stupidity.

        • rodin

          You are soooo wrong on both counts. Marriage itself IS a legal contract and gay’s ARE getting married in several states and other countries including Canada and Europe.

          • keith

            rant rating:1(weak) deserves only one small blah…

        • 13th Gen. American

          But it wasnt until gays tried to change it.AND you also had a huge (WORD REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT) hissy fit when the majority of people voted against it in California.

        • John S

          Many of you here have indicated that gays are trying to change the defination of marriage. That concept is reduclous.

          Example If you have a nice 5 bedroom house and you decide to add a family room to one part of it. Is it not a house any more? Of cource it is. By adding the big family room you have not changed the defination of a house is, you have only expanded it.

          So smoke that in your pipe flea bites.

        • 13th Gen. American

          Well there you have it. A great foundation of civilization reduced to the foundation of a house example. Show’s how much they know of the importance of it. Or care. He was worried we were comparing them to animals and he compares marriage to real estate. The difference is its more like having the most beautiful homes you can have and some one who doesnt have the same standards of building moves in the neighborhood and builds one too. May look the same on the outside but the foundation was laid on sand and everything in it is a fake knock off version of the others. That makes the value of the real ones go down. And also they smoke pipes and have flees.

        • http://donthaveone Mark

          You know, any group of men, at any time in history, can sit down and re-write any laws they want, to fit any interests they have. Mere men. They have ideas that fit their agenda, so they write laws to fit what they want to do. 50 years later, comes another group, that doesnt really like what the first group wrote, so they start changing these laws to fit their agenda. Some laws they choose to enforce, some they dont, its not perfect. But then there is God’s laws. Set from the beginning. Always constant, never changing. Never can be improved by mans thoughts, and they will be the same tomorrow as yesterday, and the same 100 years from now. They were made in perfection, and they cant be improved. There is a way to man which seems right, and it is the way of death, and the scriptures tell us this. We can choose to accept the truth, or we can walk through life convinced that we are smarter than God and we know everything, and we live to our own rules. But then there is that one thing, that one little thing, that one day all of us get our chance to go before Him and give an account of ourselves to Him. Im sure glad that I am not pompous enough to sit there and tell Him that His design for us is wrong and that He didnt know what He was doing. But some will, to which I say, good luck with that.

    • http://donthaveone Mark

      I tried marrying the taco man. It dont work. At first everyone else wants it, then it starts stinking and rotting, and man what a mess. So now Im thinking about my neighbors goat. But then Id have to hide my relationship from people I know, because I know its wrong. So then I changed my mind and decided I wanted 6 wifes instead, but Im being prejudiced against because they will let a man be with a man, but I cant have 6 wives. Its just not right. What makes them better than me? Why are their perverted needs met and mine arent. This whole jar of worms needs opened now so we can make everyone happy. Yee Haa, Im spinning in circles as we go down the drain.

      • 13th Gen. American

        Mark. Can you believe all this excusing and justifing and crazy off the wall examples they use? and as John has stated Gays never commit crimes or do no wrong and are responsible for saving the world and are smarter than all the other men in the service. They are so good at pointing out the sins of straights to justify their own actions. Good at SCREAMING to get their point across and calling names but never once can they face them selves. God is an offence to them because they are so far removed from Him. There is no reasoning or rationing with any of them. Some of the points are valid void of Gods word but then they dont like it when the same points they use to justify theirselves is used for others who feel the same as them. I dont have the patience as you. I dont like wasting my time on facts because they have heard it all and still use the same ol excuses. I do love how John types the word Homeo whayever in big print like hes yelling it and were suppose to be hurt. I guess straight people have thicker skin coz I actually think it funny. So Ive been working on my computer a lot and have been able to entertain them and let them spew their hate at me. Go to this and see what john thinks of all straights and our military. It is a sad state we are in. Im so glad there are people like you out there who are not willing to turn their back on God just to make a few happy.
        http://www.personalliberty.com/news/supreme-court-upholds-law-on-gays-in-military-19215580/

        • http://donthaveone Mark

          I guess then, the name is Rod-In.

    • rodin

      I hope your turtle wife makes more money than you so when you divorce her, she can pay lots of alimony.

      • http://donthaveone Mark

        Not an alimony state here. And unlike a lot of guys, if my wife made more money than me, more power to her. Im all for it.

        • rodin

          But…. what if she were a TURTLE….

      • keith

        rant rating:0 only worth a eigth of a blah…

  • Connie in Keene

    Americans are creative. Can’t we create a new title that defines the relationship between 2 people of the same sex so that the word MARRIAGE retains its original meaning of a male and a female as it has from the beginning of time? Why are we fighting over one word? We could have a contest and vote!

    • Kim McGough

      Are we or are we just stupid. It is none of my business what two other people do, If that makes them happy so be it. What would be a good name for a legal union between the same sex? It sure isn’t marriage, That I think should stay as it has always been. If the christian lives the life as set forth through God’s Word, and did as Jesus did, He did not condenm wrong, He loved the sinner, and not sexually, as the word has come to mean, but taught truth and love and honesty. But He let them live their lives through free will, and He will reward them accordingly. You must choose which way to go yourself and pay the fiddler when it is over!

      • Connie in Keene

        Kim, I agree that it is not my business what another does if it doesn’t hurt others. All I’m saying is that a homosexual relationship is not the same as a legally binding marriage between a man and a woman. Therefore, come up with another name that gives these people a kind of title so they can have legal privilages that humans deserve. As a Christian, I think it goes against our Creator God. But Christ came to minister to the imperfect humans that He created and loved. He paid a hefty price—its called redemption. I’ll let Him be the judge.

        • Kim McGough

          I do agree with you all the way, but let them come up with their on word for their union as long as it is not marriage. Marriage is ordained of God and should only be between a man and a woman

      • http://donthaveone Mark

        Oh, but he did condemn their sins. He would say ” I forgive you, now go and sin no more”. He didnt say, “Oh well, just keep on sinning, its ok.” No, he said go and sin no more. When the Lord says dont do it anymore, that is a condemnation of what you were doing. Go and sin no more.

    • rodin

      Why do you care so much for the exculsionary definition of the word Marriage. It wasn’t your god that created it.

      • Connie in Keene

        Rodin, I believe God created us with a special design that includes pro-creation. That is a pretty miraculous process which involves a man and a woman. That unity has been identified for many, many years by using the word MARRIAGE.

        On a practical level, does it make sense to call a cow a horse? or a nose an ear? They are not the same and it would become confusing.

        • rodin

          Connie you may have special sexual apparatus that only opens after the local justice of the peace declares you married according to the law, but most of the rest of us do not . The miraculous process you describe has nothing to do with marriage.

          Since marriage is a contract between two people according to the local civil laws, how can i be calling it by the wrong name if i seek to provide equal CIVIL rights for everyone. Are you suggesting we have religious marriages and civil unions?

      • Robin from Indiana

        If God didn’t create marriage, who do you think did?

        • rodin

          Why don’t you do some research Robin. Historically human beings have bonded for life, (although funnily enough as life expectancy increases so does the desire to split up), and different societies have had different ways to recognize the bonding. In ancient times it was a matter for families to get together and celebrate, the ring is said to be a symbol of eternity…. Did you know that in the original Trivial Pursuit there was a question asking for what reason the majority of Russians got married during the communist years…. the answer was of course “Love” but very few americans chose that answer. Funny. I digress. Some people think the notion of marriage as a sacrament can be traced to St Paul when he compared it to the relationship between Christ and his church. I digress further. The point is that human beings like some other animals in the kingdom mate for life and it is this process that we celebrate… if you want to do it in a church or a city hall or on a beach… that’s cool. You may be trying to argue that God created the desire within us to recognize our soul mates and if that’s so then I can respect your faith. However, please respect that there are many people out there that do not share your belief system yet still would like to recognize their life partners.

          And please do get and education and perform some rudimentary research.

          • Curious

            Soooooooooo some of your “facts” come from a parlor game called the pursuit of trivia?

      • Kim McGough

        Well Rodin, if God did not create marriage then who did? It goes back to the earliest pages of God’s Word. I don’t care that gays might get the right to a so called legal contract, with all of the benifits of marriage, but it will never be the same as a true marriage between a man and a woman. It may be legalized some day, but don’t expect minsiters of God to preform them. You can argue back and forth about equal rights for all but remember that the government can never get it right. They give rights and in so doing take rights from others. Try getting a job is some states. First in line are the blacks, then the women, then other nationalities, and don’t forget the native americans, in some states they come first, then the white man can get a job if there are any left. I know this last statment has nothing to do with a contract, but just shows how goverment screws up everything it touches when it comes to equal rights. And yes the christians will do everything in their power to make people see 4 themselves what is good, and wholesome, and right in God’s eye. To believe or not, that is your God given right enjoy your life here, for after this life is over, to bad!

        • rodin

          Kim,

          That’s all that anybody’s really asking, is the right to equality of legal contracts…. nobody is a proponent of making churches do anything they don’t want to do. If you want to have a special ceremony for church weddings and your church doesn’t accept gays, then I really don’t care. But the local JP and municipality and state and federal governments should recognize gay couplings with the same rights as straight couples. That’s all that anybody really wants.

          As for my god, I think she’s happy with me. :)

      • Denise

        God gave Adam knowledge!God gave man his intelligence.You are truely brainwashed by man centered thinking.You will give an account to God and Jesus when the Bible is opened at the judgement seat of Jesus.

        • rodin

          I’m happy in my relationship with God, and when I meet her, I’ll put in a good word for you too. However, until then, we have to learn to live together with the same rights on Earth.

      • keith

        rant rating:2 would have been a one,but,the utter retartedness of the statement bumps it up to a 2,blah blah blah…..

    • Denise

      God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah due to gays who wanted to know 3 male angels sexually.Do you think God won’t do it again?!!Watch America burn up.No wonder California’s burning up!

      • keith

        don’t cast your pearls before swine! you can’t argue with these demonically infested people,when you do,your doing so in your own power and the demons relish arguements because then they have YOU to deal with,and the sodimites are so demonically deluded and spiritually dead that they no longer feel the ”taint” or guilt for what they do.they are bound for hell and the demons within them know this as nothing else.just tell it like it is,jesus did’nt argue with them nor did any of the diciples.
        you are dealing with someone who is spiritually DEAD and is totally controlled by satan,this is no joke.a demon cannot deal with gods rhema (written word) and will ALWAYS try and get you into a arguement.
        for ALL you sodomites outthere,your time is coming and even NOW the wrath of jehova (god) sits upon you and you know it.REPENT,STOP,CEASE,SUBSIST!!!
        eternity is a very very very very LLLOOONNNGGGGG time to burn in hell!!!!!!!!
        as it says in gods word…….IT IS A FEARFUL THING TO FALL INTO THE HANDS OF A LIVING GOD!

        • rodin

          Wow… they let all the crazies out of the cuckoo’s nest. You got some serious issues dude.

          • keith

            rant rating:0 (3 o’s give you one blah),blah blah blah…

  • William

    I find this truly astonishing. Convince enough people that it is right (PC) and you can get almost anything you want into being acceptable and calling it constitutional. Moral issues are just that, MORAL issues. From day one, Homo-sexualism has been wrong. Even though I believe that God’s law is the only law, our government has never allowed this to be a constitutional concern or even thought of it being a law for the gays to be married, until recently, not until the “PC” issues and our “Empathy” to not hurt peoples feelings has this come into play.
    Our country was founded on certain beliefs (I believe MORAL beliefs) and if we continue to allow these alternative points of view, which alter these moral beliefs, our country will continue to spiral down into a immoral country. We are AMERICANS. Other countries use to look up to the way we live, now I see it faltering quickly. Just my two cents. I could go on forever about this issue. (Sigh)

    • TeresaE

      Where in the Constitution does it say you can infringe on others rights because they are amoral?

      Where?

      The Christian right is as to blame as the Socialist left for the disaster in America today.

      Quit having to be right and start opening your eyes to the truth.

      The politicians keep us divided over CONTRACT LAW, while selling your children into slavery.

      You may win the battle, but my children will lose the war.

      And THIS is why we are DOOMED.

      • http://donthaveone Mark

        I beg to differ my dear. The Christian Right is the only thing that keeps God from taking this country out right now. But relax, we are dwindling and becoming less and less, and this country keeps pushing God away, and soon His hand will be removed from us, and just like the Greeks, the Romans, and the Medo-Persian empires before us, we will be delivered to the hands of a lesser enemy. Learn from history or repeat it. These were all great civilizations, greater than ours. They all kicked God out, became sexually deprived and full of false gods. They were destroyed. See anything like that going on here in the United States? Thank you. I rest my case.

        • TeresaE

          The Greeks and Romans didn’t forsake your god.

          They didn’t “kick god out”.

          They did, make lots and lots of laws trying to control behavior using their gods names as the reason.

          And it failed as miserably as it will fail here.

          Divided we fall.

          Look around you, we have fallen.

          And it has NOTHING to do with god and his grace.

          Try taking responsibility for your own actions and expecting others to do the same.

          WE THE PEOPLE kept going back and asking for our government to rule our morals.

          WE THE PEOPLE will be the ones that will starve.

          The government will be fine.

        • http://donthaveone Mark

          It does have to do with God and his grace. When we reach the level of decadence and perversion that the Romans and Greek and Medo-Persian empires reach, God will remove Himself totally from us, and deliver us to another enemy as He did these empires. It is all about God and His grace, and if dont know that, your looking in the wrong places.

      • Robin from Indiana

        Theresa… You are a tad too politically correct for me.

        I happen to agree with Mark. The Christians are what is keeping this country together. Hello… ever hear of Sodom and Gomorroh?

        I don’t hate gays. I even know some gays. I pray for people that don’t know our Lord. And if you truly know God, you will know and understand His written Word and have an inner desire to follow it. I don’t know if there are Christian gays or not. Only God knows a person’s heart. But as a member of the human race, we use God’s Word as a standard. Nobody can lower the bar to a level of their own choosing. We can only draw conclusions on what we observe.

        And, if it comes to a vote, which it should, and has in California, will this movement go away? No. It’s not those who oppose it that keep it going, it’s the one that are for it that won’t give up even when it is apparent that it is not the standard we want our morals to be lowered to.

        • TeresaE

          You still don’t see my point.

          DIVIDED over contract law.

          You are going to lose it all, by not defending the discriminated and allowing people to use their free will to make their own choices (to a point), even if those choices are not in alignment with your good book.

          Reality is that asking the government to rule on morality/religious based issues is going to end badly for the religious.

          Today it is gays, tomorrow it may be Christians. Reminds me of a sad poem, that starts off, “first they came for the unionists, but I was not a unionist, so I did nothing. Next they came for the Jews, but I am not Jewish and so I did nothing.”

          And you are DEMANDING that the government make these decisions.

          I’m sorry that you can’t see that demanding every American follow the rule of the bible is the same thing as is happening in the middle east, nor can you see just how badly your fight has changed the course of the country for the worse.

          Most Christians I know decry the bigotry, hate and injustice of many of the rules of law derived from the Q’uran.

          Yet they cannot see that their own meddling into others personal lives amounts to the same exact thing.

          It is sad to see both the liberals and the conservatives destroy everything that once made this the greatest nation on earth.

          And as a realist, it is obvious that people are not capable of looking beyond their own judgmental attitudes and see the truth. Sad days

      • http://donthaveone Mark

        Teresa you can try try try as you like, and you can try your whole life long to deny Jesus Christ came and died on the cross for you. But rest assured, one day, you, like I, and like everyone else, get to bow before Him and give account of ourselves. I know there is a lot of crap Ive had in my past that He was not to pleased with, and there are still things that I do that I know are not pleasing to Him, but I am trying. You see, even though I am a Christian, and I openly acknowledge Him as my Saviour, dont go thinking I should be perfect and dont sin. Im a human being, wearing flesh. As long as Im this way, Im bound to fall to sin. Thats how it is. Any Christian that tells you they are without sin, Teresa you call them out, because they are a liar. But I know Jesus, and you may not understand it, but yeah, He talks to me. He directs my moves. He corrects me when I screw up, but He is always standing there with loving arms open waiting for me to come to Him. The same for you. The sad thing is, so many people never know just how much they need Him, until He is all theyve got. Once you find Him, things become a lot clearer. That gray area fades away into distinct black and white, wrong and right, and you clearly know the difference. I hope He finds you soon. Have a good day.

        • rodin

          Mark you’re a hypocrite raising JC’s name as if you have any understanding of his teachings. You’re so filled with hate and bile towards another set of human beings that you would allow them to be treated with less respect than anyone else. I strongly urge you to go back to his central teachings of love first. Everything else is just technicals. Love and respect for your fellow human beings was everything he was trying to teach and you quickly forgot because you saw an opportunity to justify your hatred. Learn to love and respect before you cast any more stones.

          • keith

            rant rating:6 worth 8 blahs blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah….

        • http://donthaveone Mark

          To Rodin: Where did I show hate? Because I spoke the truth of Gods word, that He says “for a man to lay down with another man like he would a woman is an abomination to the Lord”. Thats makes me a hater because I cite God’s word? Wow. Being that you are attacking me and hating on me shows that you are the hater here. Being I know gays, and have had gays in my family, and I tell you what, they are peaceful and I feel safer around them than I do a lot of so called normal people. I have never forced any malice on them, or hate, or attacks, yet you attack me, because I speak the truth, not my words, but God’s words. So dont box me, go box Him. I dont think your arms are long enough, but go ahead a try. Good luck with that.

    • John S

      How sad for you.
      If America is going into a reductive spiral is has nothing to do with gay marriage. By far the greatest moral reduction comes from the way heterosexuals are raising their children. The overpopulation in the criminal institutions are not comprised of gays, they are YOUR HETEROSEXUAL off spring. Some of them for cornering, robbing, beating, and killing decent gay people. The joining of two gay people to build a life, and home togather, and many times rescueing your throw-away children to give them a new lease on life is not part of America’s doome.

      • http://donthaveone Mark

        John, I agree and disagree. First off, gay unions are wrong, well at least according to God, and being a Christian I follow His word over yours and mine. But secondly, the heterosexual offspring problem, yes sir, you are correct. But again, this comes from Un-Godly alliances mostly, from unmarried people who decided that sex sex sex with everybody and anybody is a good idea. Not. God created sex, and it is a good thing. But the enemy, Satan, has taken it and made a dirty thing out of it. Its design was for it to be enjoyed between a man and a women, IN MARRIAGE. Everyone should get themselves and study guide, and read the Book of Solomon, or Song of Songs whichever you prefer to call it, and it details it all. Three times the woman wanted sex, but the man so no, the time isnt right, because they werent married yet. So yes, all this sex going on is the cause of a lot of our societal problems. Divorce between people who have sex before marriage is 10 times higher than between those who wait until marriage to have sex. Today society tells us this is crazy, but then again so is my God coming to earth to take a beating and getting nailed to a cross to pay for my stupid sins. But He did it. Our whole society is out of control because we have put God on the back burner, and kick Him out of more and more places. Soon we will fall, and all you people who want gay lovers, multiple lovers, both sex lovers, extra and pre-marital lovers, you’ll be able to have them all until He comes again. Have fun.

      • TeresaE

        John, you hit the nail on the head.

        Being gay is not the crime that many make it out to be.

        Raising conceited, materialistic, never do anything wrong even when caught, full of excuses with no work ethic children should be.

        • http://donthaveone Mark

          People should have to have a license to have a child.

        • keith

          YEAH,YOU TRY TELLING THAT TO JESUS WHEN YOU FINALLY SEE HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      • 13th Gen. American

        NO GAYS IN JAIL!!???!!!You sure do crack me up. Seriously now. Im having a blast reading your rants. No really. I hope you join us now more often. I cant wait to pass this along to everyone. Your priceless. Its like your just (WORDS REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT) to say…..ooh sorry.

        • rodin

          13 – you really have your head up your arse if you think that rape and sex in prison has ANYTHING to do with being gay. I can see you don’t have a background in sociology either. And BTW the concept of civil marriage arose in medieval Europe to keep track of the population and statistics. Prior to that people took partners and were recognized as being partners. Even in the Catholic church for a time, there were gay marriages… It is historical… you just have to study it. As for your 10 commandments, what does union as contracted through civil marriage have to do with that. If I’ve got a parther, married or not, and one of us strays, that is adultery. Why do you insist on bringing the government into the equation.

          • keith

            rant rating:9! worth MANY blah’s….blah blah blah blah……blah blah..blah blah….blah…blah….

        • 13th Gen. American

          Your the one bringing the government into the equation by trying to use the courts to legalize sodomy. ALSO Hate to tell you this sweetheart but there are men who swing both ways in jails but the straight guys stay as far away from the sisterhood as they can. You dont have to have a degree in anything to know that. Ask any guy who has spent time in there before you speak to which you dont know. So back in the day if you read the bible at all is when God said its wrong for a man to lay with a man. Therefore a union between 2 men is not considered adultery because God considers it a sin. I also know the Jews had a marriage ritual wwwaaayyy before then dearie. Its like having a conversation with a child it is. You can screw the facts any way you like and make them up but the fact is its a sin you are trying to justify with irrational thoughts and It aint gona work. Keep telling yourself all the bullshit you like. I personally could careless what you do in private but Im not going to turn my back on God and let our society fall into the pit of hell.

      • debra

        John S..are you kidding??? Do you really not know what goes on in jails and prisons??? 3 meals a day,not great food..but food,no responsibilties, and all the sex you want!!! Why do you think there are so many repeat offenders?? And while I am at…now dont think I agree with gay marriage..but HELL I say let them have at!!! Be miserable llike the rest of us...give them half you house,your retirement,gotta split the money in the bank..no matter who worked for it,support the kids..and you might catch a look at that new car you bought once in a while with the new younger boyfriend driving!! Yeah go right ahead ..get married..get all your earnings and property all tangled up. By the time you go thru this a few times...you wont get married again.

        • rodin

          Debra – you funny!!

          • keith

            rant rating:0!(lost your thesaurus again?) blah and 1/8 of a blah..

        • http://donthaveone Mark

          And you can bet the lawyers are all for this one. They are going to make a ton of money off the gays in society. All these alimony, palimony, child support, splitting the bank accounts, all of this will apply to you. Hope you arent pissed when you get what you asked for, and I hope some of you get reamed like I did 20 years ago. But you asked for it, so be happy.

      • Denise

        Go to the Old Testament.Sodom and Gomorrah ‘s sin of homosexuality was so great it cried out to God.So God sent three male angels to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah for their homosexual sins.Do you think God won’t destroy America the same way?

    • rodin

      Morality does not equal law, nor should it where it has the potential to create disharmony between mutually respectful groups.

      • Denise

        Without God and morality we would be in dire straights.

      • keith

        no rant rating as you were surprisingly somewhat civil that time(must be on your meds)

    • Denise

      It used to be against the law to commit sodomy(annalsex)!

    • Denise

      That’s because we’ve elected ungodly men and women to office.We should humble ourselves and pray to God and he will heal our land as he promises.

      • Smilee

        Denise you got to be the most judgmental person in this discussion. Acting like you know everyone’s relationship with Jesus. No one has that ability not even you. If you know so much about Christ I suppose you know he said Judge not lest you be judged. Be careful! What if he found your sins to be the equal or worse than the gays. We have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of god. What would his judgment of you be. This is why I treat gays by the golden rule, if Christ has a problem with their being gay, on judgment day, I’m sure he will make the right decision whatever your opinion, right or wrong. He has commanded us to Love one another, and may I submit that you cannot love anyone unless you treat them with respect. My dad use to say you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make him drink. Telling the horse how good the water is might persuade him, disrespecting him will never get him to drink. My advice let your fellow man define themselves and then respect that definition even if you cannot agree with it. You were called by Jesus to witness not to be his judge, jury or executioner.

        • Denise

          You confuse the word of God with hate ,judgement is in God’s word.So perhaps it’s you who can’t handle God.I only warn them of what Jesus and the disciples said.Problem with the word that will judge them ,go to God.I’m not judging God’s word does that.You seem to think you are the authority on Jesus.Read the New Testament before you try to argue with Jesus and the vwery word he’ll use to judge you ,me and the homosexuals you claim can do what God plainly states in Leviticus18:22,”A man shall not lie with a man like he lies with a woman,”You want to argue that?!!!You would lose!I don’t argue the word of God which will be used at the judgement seat of Jesus Christ.You call me judgemental.Perhaps you can’t handle God’s very judgement!

  • Norm

    Dick Cheney supports gay marraige because his daughter is a Lesbian. He’s an idiot and should shut up.

    A few Cheney quotes:

    “I had other priorities in the sixties than military service.” –on his five draft deferments, April 5, 1989

    “My belief is we will, in fact, be greeted as liberators.” –March 16, 2003

    Go f*ck yourself.” –to Sen. Patrick Leahy, during an angry exchange on the Senate floor about profiteering by Halliburton, June 25, 2004

    As far as gay marraige let the voters decide. For those who forgot, this still a democracy.

    • Smilee

      Its a republic at least that’s what Ben Franklin said when asked what they gave us, and then added if you can keep it. The voters do not decide how most laws are made, your representatives do. The US Constitution is changed that way. Except for California, this method is not used often elsewhere and in some states the legislature has to vote to allow it first. California has gotten a lot of bad laws this way and that is why today its economy is worse that most of the states. They have handicapped their elected officials in too many way. Emotionally enacted laws are usually the worst laws and most referendum etc. have produced many unintended consequences.

      • http://donthaveone Mark

        You dont see any other reasons as to why California, who used to have one of the best state economy’s, is now about the worse?

        • Smilee

          Yes, but that is the primary one in the present crises. Some of the propositions enacted handicapped the legislature and Governor from better addressing their issues, does not mean they would have addresses them in the best way but these made it almost impossible.

    • Denise

      And when the USA is burning up because God exacts judgement on such evil.Voters may decide but God has the final word!

  • http://peacemakerwater.com Ronald Nelson

    The Republication Party is not much better than the Demogoges. In the last election I voted for the Constitution Party. Check it out at http://constitutionparty.com.

    • rodin

      Fat lot of good that did for you.

      • keith

        rant rating:1 (your meds must be wearing off!) worth two blahs,blah..blah…

  • Randy

    Compromising what you have believed all your life because you child has decided its ok, is not ok. Stand on your own beliefs Dick and quit caving. Giving in to the liberal degenerates (Ellen Degenerate)is not gonna make the GOP stonger. It weakens it.

    • John S

      Dick Chaney is not compromising what he believes.

      For once in his life he is owning up to what he knows is true.
      The sad part of this equation is that he denied the feelings and happiness of his own flesh and blood for political reasons.
      I cannot believe he has just now come around to realize the sexuality of his own daughter.
      He as many other right wing politicians are the ultimate hypocrites.
      Some how I feel the word was coined for them. Though Chaney is personally not gay, there is a documentary soon to be released exposing all the republican politicians who time after time have affairs with guys while being married to women, and have voted time and again to extend the hell gay folks have to deal with.
      We must remember a politican’s first duty is to get elected or stay in office.
      To hell with the people, just keep your seat.

      They even vote against bullying laws to protect children in grammar school form bullies that seek them out to beat them down.

      If you read the news you would know of the recent three small gay school children who killed themselves because they felt it was their only relief from their tormentors. Time and time again no one would help them.
      Are you telling me these children decided they would rather die than to abandon a “LIFE STYLE” they chose? How insane is that? These children were who they were because they were borne that way.

      In the past gay men either married women they didn’t love and had children because of family pressure, only to divorce some years later, leaving a wife of many years hart broken, and children in mental hell with a broken family.

      There of millions of examples of this in this country.

      The ones that didn’t marry got off the marriage hook by becoming a priest.

      We all know how well that went don’t we. The solution to this problem is let people be who they are from the beginning.
      Let them find the ONE they truly love and create a life.

      Look at the cost to society when we dictate who people must be because that suits us.
      This mistake cost the Catholic Church billions of dollars. If many of these guys
      could have lived the lives they were born to live they would not have had to run to the priest-hood to hide.

      The most basic of human instincts is to love another and be loved in return.
      It is embedded in us from childhood.

      Now for all you guys out there, imagine you woke up tomorrow, and the vast majority of the worlds population was gay, but some of you were heterosexual. When you met a women you just had to have and love, you had to be together in secret.
      Others said the very thought of it was disgusting. For sure it isn’t normal.

      You may sneak around in private when no one is looking, but your friends will harass you if they ever find out, and some of your parents would surely beat the heterosexuality out of you if they found you out. Many of your parents truly want you to be happy, but if any of their friends found out about YOU they would be sooo embarrased. This is what most of this is about.

      I mean come on guys all you have to do is go to church and the gay pastor will pray for you, and we can send you to a camp ( where you will recieve a verbal labotomy), ( if it’s a high end camp they will surly have electro shock treatment), where you will meet other gay guys and in no time you will see the evil of your ways.
      Soon you will meet a great gay guy and in no time get married, and in time if the need for a women comes back, for the love of God, don’t move on it.
      Get some more counseling, and pray about it. I’m sure God will change you.

      In fact, kill your self if you have to but don’t associate sexually with women. (whoops) I forgot killing yourself is a sin too)

      Well there you have boys and girls. Go by the wing nut gay social laws, and live a of a lone some hermit, or tell them to chase them self’s, and love and marry the women you love. To hell with them.

      The same goes for you gay boys and girls of cource

      • 13th Gen. American

        Im sorry I made fun of you. I see you have issues. My bad.

        • rodin

          Mr 13 – I think you have issues. And yes you are bad….. supporting hatred and divisiveness.

        • 13th Gen. American

          See any time a person doesnt agree with a lib they are hateful. They cant argue facts so they call names. I dont hate gays. I feel sorry for them all.

        • http://donthaveone Mark

          Hey 13th, dont you know theyve got the right to attack us and hate us. We the Christians have no rights. Its open season on us. We are not provided the protection as other groups, because then they would cry separation of church and state. What a joke.

  • http://none Darlene F Burgi

    A quote from a book written BC: ” 2. For as their laws and their governments were established by the voice of the people, and they who chose evil were more numerous than they who chose good, therefore they were ripening for destruction, for the laws had become corrupted. 3. Yea, and this was not all; they were a stiffnecked people, insomuch that they could not be governed by the law nor justice, save it were to there destruction.”

    This is us today . . . we will not be governed except by laws that are to our destruction . . . for example: Abortion, same sex marriage, speech (hate) and gun (safety) control and many other such actions which take our freedom. FREEDOM is a gift from God that allows for our progression, but FREEDOM must be exercised within certain boundaries (laws, commandments). Many, if not most, people desire to set their own boundaries to include their disobedience (sins), rather than conform to the law and order than brings growth and peace. We will only be governed by laws that will act to our destruction.

  • Edg1

    Cheney HAS to say this whether he believes it or not simply because he has a gay daughter.

    • Smilee

      Who gave you the ability to read his mind.

      • Edg1

        I guess you know nothing about families?

        • Smilee

          I know a lot about families, raised four by myself and have 12 grandchildren, my point is that he could very well believe what he said you seem to want believe he had no choice in the matter, not saying your wrong just you can’t get in side his mind and I believe if you can’t prove your point you should not assume you can know in matters that have no proof. Is it not sort of disrespectful to the Vice President to do so to.

        • Edg1

          I respectfully disagree. Dick has revealed his mind on many occasions as has Newt. Neither has a liberal bone in their bodys. I don’t fault either of them for loving their kin with or without warts. We all have some family member we wish we could “fix”. I have several. In fact my cousin Evelyn once worked in D.C. with the Clintons. She is my cousin and I love her dearly even though she is a liberal loon of the first order. She even attacked me on the abortion issue AT A FUNERAL!

  • YAYA

    Marriage, Abortion
    Whatever our personnel beliefs are we are entitle to it. Who are we to judge and Government should not have the right to enforce or stop people for making life choices they want too. Weather I feel it is appropriate or some politician dose is not relevant.
    Everyone should have freedom to make Life Choices.

    • Connie in Keene

      Its interesting, YAYA that you include the concept of ABORTION in a comment about judging if we are entitled “to have the right to enforce or stop people for making life choices.” How do you use the words “life choices” when talking about allowing abortion? Are you not forgetting about the LIFE OF THE UNBORN? As Ronald Regan said….he noticed that the people who are for abortion were allowed to be born.

      You are correct—Everyone, EVEN THE UNBORN should have freedom to make Life Choices. Who is there to protect them from an arrogant society that acts like they have the right to detrimine who lives & who dies—-before they even have a chance to begin life?

    • Denise

      Go live in another country and let our country fear God Almighty and not uphold evil:Abortion,gayrights,gaymarriage,etc.

    • Denise

      I have a right to say where my tax money is spent,okay!

      • Smilee

        Don’t I too, even if I want it spent on something you do not want it spent on, the majority decides that and maybe it gets spent on what we want and maybe it does not. How would you run a government if they could only spend each persons taxes but to have each persons permission first. Total Chaos, is, that what you really want??

        • Denise

          To help the poor,the widow,the lame.That’s what it should be used for.When someone is struggling and homeless,jobless,in need of help with life’s issues.Paying Mayors,govenors,the prtesident,vice-president,etc.

        • Smilee

          I very much agree but few conservatives and/or republicans do, this is a liberal belief. Maybe there is hope yet

          your reply

          To help the poor,the widow,the lame.That’s what it should be used for.When someone is struggling and homeless,jobless,in need of help with life’s issues.Paying Mayors,govenors,the prtesident,vice-president,etc.

        • Denise

          That’s why we have representatives:Congressmen and Senaters.That way we can petition our government about our grievences and ask for our taxes to be spent for good and not evil,i.e. abortion tax money to kill unborn babies in Mexico or in the USA or any where in the world.Yes I have great faith this will be rectified by us or God who can bring the economy in the USA to a screeching hault if we promote evil with our tax money.

    • Denise

      Killing future citizens isn’t okay.Would you be here today if your mom decided to abort you?

    • Denise

      We are entitled to life,liberty,and the pursuit of happiness,not murder(ABORTION),gay rights,gay marriage all causing God’s punishment on our country.Ever wonder why the economy is so bad?Gee,tax money to murder innocent babies in the womb,gay rights,and gay marriage.Even governors confessing adultrous affairs and claiming they have broken no laws.Yes,they break God’s laws daily without remorse or repentance.Something the modern day christian seems to think they’re above repentance.Get real with God before he destroys America with flood ,disaster,and fire.

  • Terry

    Ok folks, let’s break it down to the raw basics. Just because the gay movement is growing steam,it doesn’t make it right! Why is it that you go to San Francisco and there are thousands of gay people,yet you go into a place like Oklahoma City,or Kansas rarely do you run across a gay person? Can we say it’s environmentally caused? Is it a pop-fad culture promoted to the young? They say that the majority of human beings at one time or another have mixed feelings of feeling homosexual,that it’s driven by hormones,accept they do not need to act upon it,since they are actually hetorosexual the whole time. However when these humans live in a society,culture,and a city that actually promotes the lifestyle,when these feelings come up they are easily mentally swayed into gay feelings,and then think they are homosexual. The longer they stay there the more likely the will stay there! Tell me how people like the so called lesbian girlfriend of Ellen Degenerous recently decided she was not gay anymore,left Ellen and went back to a man? I personally know high school aged girls who used to be “GAY” while experiencing it in high school,and now laugh at what they did,and actually can’t even believe they tried it,and are happily married now! Luckily they live in KS where it is not pushed in their face on a daily basis,otherwise when they were younger they may have been convinced that somehow they actually were gay! When a man takes his private part and inserts it into another mans waste receptacle it is not physically normal,and furthermore there can be no procreation,same with a female trying to find ways of sexual pleasure with another female can never procreate. This is what the scientists said in the early 70′s,it is a form of mental illness that can actually be cured,which it has been,many times. This was a consenses of all scientists then. I guess if the global warming believers trust the consensus of scientists on global warming then they shoul also believe them on gay relationships!

    • John S

      OK Terry now that you broke it down, lets put it back together again.
      ” Just because the gay movement is gaining steam that doesn’t make it right”

      I’m sure it doesn’t make it right for you but it does for millions of your country men.
      (quote)
      “Why is it that you go to San Francisco and there are thousands of gay people,yet you go into a place like Oklahoma City,or Kansas rarely do you run across a gay person?”

      Terry, I can assure you there are thousands of gay folks there.
      The difference is they have to live in the closet.
      They are not free to live like gays do in many other parts of the country.

      In KS they will run into discrimination in every form of life if they are out and open to who they are . I can tell you and don’t even know you, you personally know more of then than you would ever guess. They just can’t tell you.

      Why do you see so many in SF? The answer is easy.

      California has been a refuge for gay people for many years especially SF.

      All those gay folks there, were not born there, they came from all over the US to escape the small town thinking and the harassment.

      There very many talented people in the gay community who can never develop them selves in a small town atmosphere .besides, you always are happier when you are around people who can relate to you.

      Blacks do it, church people do it, Mexican people do it everybody does it. So it’s natural and comfortable for them. There are no red necks harassing them.

      You don’t go to SF as a straight man to become gay. If you go as a straight man you will leave as one. If you leave gay you were gay when you went there.

      As far as most of us having feelings of homosexuality at some time in our life, that is true.
      All of us have have feminine and masculine sides to us.

      In my life I have known many straight men who have experimented with gay sex.

      That does not make them gay. Who they are is what they are after all the experimentation is over.

      The true straight guys and women find a partner of the opposite sex. Over the years I have met straight guys that said, after doing their experimentation how ever many times with the same sex said God, imagine getting off that good, and being able to shake out your boots and go fishing with your life buddy.

      Being able to go have beers and shoot pool with your life buddy, and not all the nagging damn what a life, the only problem is I really want kids, so I guess I’m going to have to go with the other program.

      This is a guy that is straight. He is also very confident about who he is.

      If he was a gay guy acting as a straight guy living living in a completely straight environment, he might likely be a bully, calling anyone in his presents especially other gay guys, a fagot.

      This is the way straight (really gay) guys cover their tracts in front of their Buddy’s.

      This is to make sure their friends never suspect what they are hiding. A man who is sure of who he is doesn’t have the time for such BS. He’s busy looking for women.
      He is typically glad to see many gay guys. These are guys who will never compete with him for women.

      Why do some girls have lesbian relationships then go to men? The same thing happens to girls who are married to men they never loved in the first place.

      But women are made different and are socially raised different in this country.

      It’s not uncommon to hear a women say how beautiful another women is. To walk up to a women friend and kiss her on the lips when she greets.

      It’s not uncommon for them to go into the bathroom together at a public place or discuss female problems together, or cry at the drop of a hat.

      We allow them to vent their feelings on a plethora of subjects, which some say is why they live longer.

      Now, on the other hand unless you are only 8 yrs old you may get away with kissing your grandpa or your dad, but not much later in life it is forbidden to show affection in most ways to another male.
      If you give a buddy a hug, it better not be for more than a second. If you were in a restaurant and went to the restroom with a buddy like women do, especially in the presents of women, all eyebrows would be raised to say the least when you returned.

      Women said OMG that girl is gorges. OK so what. But you say “damn that guy is good looking”, and all hell would break loose.

      She would want to know where your are every second for the rest of your life, especially if your attractive your self.
      I wont go on and on but you get my point. We are a country of hypocrites with double standards, raised to live in a certain box depending who we are.

      Ours is a tiny one, women have one that is an acre square.
      Ever wonder why guys act like complete nut cases at a sports event, some times rioting and causing damage beyond belief some times? It’s the only place men can vent. It’s the only men can release pent up anger and tension. Why do women
      attend sports events? To keep an eye on their men, and to find one if they don’t have one.

      With liberty and justice for all,,,,, is a farce. Other countries are not like as bad as we are. Most of it comes from our puritan back ground. The sooner it leaves the better off we will all be.

      • Eric Bischoff

        John S.
        well said and very gutsy for this site.

      • 13th Gen. American

        There is so much wrong with this its sad but the last thing. If it wernt for the puritans making babies, which you cant do, and for all us sad straight people having babies, which you cant do, you yourself wouldnt be here. Fact some of what you said is true to a point and it is because we as humans have a choice to do right or wrong. Given our nature we choose wrong without Gods help. Without God and Christ in us we just do whatever feels good. Were imperfect creatures and left to ourselves we fall into all sorts of sin and perversion. One of which is…..thats right, so without Christ gay or straight we all sin. Im just not going to justify any of it. So you yourself are no better than all of the above stated by yourself. Dude. Jesus loves you. He died because he knew from the begining of time you would be and do whatever. When you get to face God all your pointing fingers at every one else’s sins isnt going to matter to him. Its yours alone and just because others sin doesnt mean your excempt from yours. You will be facing the same fate as all those examples you gave if you continue to justify your actions by whatever excuse. You dont have to try to convince us its OK. We know its not. But keep trying to make yourself feel better about it all anyway you can. You might be deceived in your mind about it all by Satan but so sad for you Gods not.

        • rodin

          LMAO – You do a good SNL routine – except I think they already have a Church Lady.

        • 13th Gen. American

          We’ll see who’s laughing when we do face God dear.But thank you I love the complement. Church lady was a hoot.

      • Smilee

        I agree John, but i fear it is like water off a ducks back with a lot the folks here.

      • Denise

        What about butch females who beat up their female counterparts?

        • Smilee

          What about them????

      • American Citizen

        John, the generalizations you make about men and women are not true. Men are by nature more aggressive than women. Women are by nature more nurturing. Men are supposed to be the protectors, women the nest builders. That’s nature.

        Trust is all important in a relationship, whether the couple is married or unmarried. Everybody has a right to have his or her own friends as well as friends of both parties. Men like to get together for various activities as well as women do. And women do not attend sports to keep an eye on their men. They attend because they really like to watch the sports. There is no more greater enjoyment for us grandparents, grandpa and grandma both, than to watch their grandchildren play or perform. I, as a woman, love the game of baseball more than most other sports, although I do enjoy watching others. When I was younger, I enjoyed playing them, too.

        Your cynicism and generalizations are what is wrong with this country anymore. Prejudices and stereotyping are becoming this country’s undoing. It’s poor against rich, liberals against conservatives, blacks against whites and other nationalities (if you don’t believe me, just watch the news every day), whites against blacks, etc., ad nauseam. It’s time we all do as Jesus told us to do, “Love one another.”

    • http://donthaveone Mark

      So now that youve spoken the truth, your going to get attacked. Brace for that. The only exception I took, was when you dropped San Francisco as the reference city for gaydom. Everywhere I go I hear that, but Ive been there 3 times and it was fantastic. My wife and I went everywhere and were never bothered. The gay society is a peaceful lot, as the travel agent put us in the middle of the gay section because of it being the safest area. We didnt mind it at all, just like being around normal people. What I hated, was when I was in San Diego and Los Angeles, for 4 years in the military, I couldnt stand at a corner and wait for a bus without getting approached at least twice on everytrip downtown, and getting propositioned by a gay guy. Sometimes they would come around the block 3 or 4 times, and they seemed to be conviced they could pick you up. It took me back to being a teenager chasing after certain girls, making me wonder if I was that much of a nuisance to them. I hope not. But everyone here in Indiana that hasnt been there, hears San Francisco and thinks “gay”. Its a great party town, with lots to see like Ghiardelli chocolate, Alcatraz, Pier 39, Fishermans Wharf, Dimaggios and the cable cars and all kinds of stuff. They can keep LA and San Diego, but San Francisco is a neat spot.

      • rodin

        Mark, your last response to me was wrong on so many levels, but that’s ok, I’ll assume you are like the typical 90% of Americans that have no idea what is going on beyond its borders, who remain blissfully ignorant and afraid of everything “different”.

        Let’s start with IRAQ – You argue that it was OK to invade because Saddam was a madman. There’s lots of madmen in the world, why was he so special that we needed to invade? There’s lots of countries living with tinpot despot dictatorships, some of which we actually set up because we didn’t like their kind of democracy. You say he had weapons – yeah so what – so does everybody else. Both Bush and Cheney have now admitted that there was no evidence that he had WMDs. They lied and manipulated your fears. You can keep believing the lie or you can move forward.

        As for the people in IRAQ, sure a lot of them are happy we ousted their dictatorship and gave them an opportunity for freedom, however there’s two arguments here…. (1) one are they special considering all the other populations around the world… why don’t we march into North Korea, or Iran or China, or Russia or Saudi Arabia or any other country we don’t believe has the same level of freedoms we have. Why don’t we help the people in Congo, or Niger or the former Rhodesia. Wake up and read a newspaper about what’s going on in the world. 2) immediately after we “freed” them, the factions being held together by Saddam started to fight each other and have so far killed a couple of hundred thousand of themselves. We’ve caused the deaths of more Iraqis in a few short years than Saddam in his entire career.

        You also suggest that we needed to get Iraq’s oil – This argument is horrific and could only be justified by Cheney himself. However, assuming I wanted to look at it from a Machiavellian perspective, you’re wrong on this count as well. 1) We don’t need Iraqi oil – We can be almost sufficient with North and South American oil and topping it up with oil from our “friends” in Saudi.
        2) Bush and Cheney gave a “pass” to Iraq saying we did not have any “call” on their oil and they were free to sell it to anyone and keep all the profits themselves. So far, going into IRAQ has cost a trillion dollars none of which we will ever see again, that doesn’t count the cost in terms of lives or limbs that American soldiers have lost. How can you be a patriot and suggest that our boys should die and be mangled for Cheney’s glory. IT certainly didn’t do anything for us.

        There are way too many reasons not to have gone into IRAQ, but our country was blinded by corrupt, incompetent and ideological leaders. I never want to see us make that mistake again…. and believe it or not but I am not one who believes in policies of staying out of world affairs as we did prior to FINALLY helping out in WWII. I think there are a lot of places in the world that need our help, most especially in Afghanistan, Pakistan, North Korea, but we DID NOT HAVE TO GO INTO IRAQ. It was costly, based on lies and it screwed us up.

        Now as for your comments about me. I never said that I was gay, why you would infer that is curious since you seem to want to fight for me. I fight for anybody’s rights and one thing I’ve noticed about America, is that there is a large component of the population that would like to keep rights away from homosexuals. And the vast majority of these morality excusers, use their understanding of Christianity as a justification for their bigotry. This country was founded on principles of freedom for ALL and freedom from religion. WE cannot start enshrining one group’s morality as secular law if that morality does not respect the basic rights of others. There are far too many moral cops on this site who seem to think that who somebody sleeps with is more important than the love and respect they show for their fellow man.

        You can pray for me all you want, but I’m certain that my god is very happy with me and I’ll talk to her when I see her.

        Cheers

        • Denise

          If you read the Holy Bible you will see it in black and white,Leviticus18:22,1Romans18-32,1Corinthians6.God will open this at your death.This is what God will use to judge you.No arguement,just a fact!

      • Denise

        Just try speaking against their gay agenda and see how quickly they become violent against you.

    • keith

      QUIT CALLING THEM GAY!!! they are SODIMITES! PURE AND SIMPLE! SINNERS DOOMED TO HELL FIRE AND BRIMSTONE! QUIT BEING TOUCHY FEELY,GOD WAS’NT!!!!!

  • Peter Melville

    Republicans are weak, divided, and not ruthless enough to beat out the democrat party.
    Winning at any cost will cost us all.

  • http://sushoup999@hotmail.com Susan

    I have a great idea. Put all the gays in California, Oregon, New York City or wherever – let them make their own utopia. Give them enough land, houses, etc…that they need to build their lives. In less than 90 years (probably more like 50 yrs or less) as long as they remain a couple (as they say they do) – in no time they will all be dead and the earth will be renewed. They should do this in every country and that would end the problem. Of course, in many nations, people are killed for such abominations of immorality.
    In all seriousness, it is wrong. It is not marriage. They should have remained closeted. Perversion of this magnitude rots the moral fiber of a culture. Civilizations from the beginning of time self destruct when this behavior becomes the norm.
    I was a bit harsh, but enough is enough. They are morally bankrupt and need prayer. But they do not need legitimacy governed by law to do their sexual practices in the name of marriage.

    • Peter Melville

      Sexual perversion is not good for society. If the tree is planted what kind of fruit will it bring. Will it be pears, apples and oranges, and figs, or thorns and briars.
      Goodness will shine forth and evil will perish.

      • rodin

        Peter… that is sooo deep. I’m going to have to smoke a joint to reflect on the profoundness of what you’re saying. Between you and Maharishi, I’ll meditate and try to get my inner peace. Then when I meet god, I can say “whazzzup dude”

        You a funny man.

        • http://donthaveone Mark

          Dont mock God Rodin, he wont be mocked. And Im not a betting man, but when you meet Him, and you will, you aint gonna be saying nothing like that. Hopefully, you’ll come around before then, and He will look at you and say “Come on in Dude”. Yeah, thats what its about brother. Be there, dont miss the bus.

        • rodin

          Mark… you’re way too serious and you’re straying way off the mark. Try to keep to the topic at hand… I know you’d like to proselytize some more, but what we’re talking about right now is whether certain members of our society should be discriminated against in SECULAR law…. i.e. do we get to remove certain rights from them. I realize you probably would love to bash all those which you consider sinners but please remember we’re here on EARTH right now and any judgement is only for the divine after we leave. I don’t care what you believe in as long as you don’t hurt other people. I’m sick of people like you preaching god and love with one voice and then removing civil rights and privileges from other human beings that you don’t agree with. That’s not your job. Or maybe you’d like it to be in which case why don’t go back to NAZI germany or to the Medieval Europe where people like you get to kill all those you don’t like.

    • Smilee

      Susan

      Being a child of God gives us all legitimacy in his eyes. Interesting concept you have though, sort of similar to how hitler got rid of the jews, but real nice of you to let them at least live, I suppose that is real progress over hitlers solution to getting rid of those each of you despise. I have a hard time seeing Jesus suggesting this as a solution to your gay problem through. And of course so much for freedoms in this county if you were to succeed.

      • Denise

        It seems to me that the only ones loosing freedom to speak out against homosexuality are God fearing people who want to live in peace and live lawfully in society.How about our 1st&7th Amendment rights the gays want to infringe upon by passing hate crimes legislation against our freedoms.

        • Smilee

          Your speaking out here are you not, I’ve not seen any evidence you are in any way restricted in what you can say in our society. Not getting your way is not being discriminated against. Your 1st amendment rights are very much being protected I do not know what the seventh has do with what your talking about. I guess if your gay and being beaten up or killed it is very much an expression of hate, am I to believe you think that is OK if laws are not passed to punish that. Just what does it have to do with your freedoms. It seem to me that you have more trouble living peacefully with yourself than others. Do you think that if your gay and being tortured or being killed is peaceful.. COME ON!!!

  • Monika

    The best way to end this ongoing despute is to put marriage question on federal ballot next November and let the majority decide if we accept heterosexual/homosexual marriage or only heterosexual marriage.

    The truth is that politician as not going to let US, citizens decide or they would give a bribe method to get elected. Addisionally, everyone knows that as long as majority or USA population is streight, the marriage will be only heterosexual.

    Bottom line is that marriage issue is all about taxes. When married people started paying the same taxes are 2 single people – this issues started taking off really fast. And if the tax laws will expire in 2011, when married people pay more taxes than 2 single, the issue of homosexual marriage will die in a heartbeat.

    As some pointed out, the courts are already overloaded with people getting married for fun, without any respect for laws and when they have a fight, they immediately divorce as one fight is the end of the world. Do we really need more bitter, divorces in courts and more kids that had their home destroyed by selfish, self centered parents?

    • rodin

      Yes, that’s like letting the Germans decide if they should send all the Jews to concentration camps. Sometimes the majority is just plain sick.

      • Peter Melville

        Rodin, my man! You must admit that a majority is not always wrong, a majority of Americans decided that the germans under Hitler had to go and were willing to die to make it happen.
        Also isn’t it possible that any argument can be made if we are willing to stretch the truth? We can stretch it for good as well as bad reasons. Or we can tell it like it is. I am not a deep thinker, so don’t waste a joint on it. Save your money.
        Ha ha,
        signed
        Funny Man

        • rodin

          I did not say the majority was always wrong… I merely said that we must protect ourselves against a tyranny of the majority… usually happens when someone decides a smaller group isn’t as good as the rest and turns it into an us vs them argument. Rights must be universal. If the majority decide that the minority should have any lesser rights then I don’t care how you couch it … that is a tyranny. That’s as simple as I can tell it.

        • Smilee

          Funny Man

          You are right on only one count, you definitely are not a deep thinker.

      • Robin from Indiana

        That was a horrible comment. Do you think that it was the regular working class German that brought about the Holocaust? Hitler was in charge and his decision was backed by his Gestapo. I doubt that the German people even knew what was in store for the Jewish people. I know some did, but there had to be a lot of them in denial if they did know. Chances are they were misinformed and led to believe something totally different.

        • rodin

          Robin – please please please get educated before you speak again. I assume you are only talking about the gassing of Jews in the death camps…what about the years of harassment beforehand, what about Cristallnacht, what about the confiscations of Jewish property, what about the laws being changed to deny Jews jobs and property. The german population was complicit and knowing in ALL of these acts. how could they not be. Sure the concentration camps were hidden away and germans could make the argument that they didn’t know the jews were being gassed. But they knew the jews had all been carted away… they knew all the jews property had been confiscated… they knew it was illegal to harbour a jew in their house. How (WORD REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT) stupid can you be to say they did not know jews were being discriminated against. Do you remember hearing about the shipload of jews that tried to get away from Germany and nobody would take it and allow them in. That history is a dark stain on humanity and no amount of bleach or pleas of ignorance should cover it up. IF you were in Germany it would have been impossible not to see what was happening to the Jews

        • Denise

          Hitler was Austrian not German.

        • Denise

          Go rent a movie called “Valkarie”

      • Denise

        We’re not sending you to concentration camps.

  • John S

    As I read these posts time after time, there is several vains of thought that needs comment. First you people keep refering to the Bible or God’s law. The United States of America is a democracy NOT a theocracy. People of all religions are welcome here and those who prefer not to subscribe to religous doctrine are just as welcome.

    This is excately our laws are not baised on religous law. This is not a Christian nation. It is a nation of all religions, that are to be treated equally. Those that might be non belivers are just as welcome.

    Point (2) There is NOTHING in the US constitution that deals with marriage in any way. Yes there are a few nut cases that want to amend the constitution and change it, but it has served us well for over 200 years thank you.

    Point (3) Half the signers of the constitution were Freemasons as was Francis Scott Key who wrote our National Anthem and Frances Bellamy who wrote the Pledge of Allegiance. There is no established religon or mention of God in our constitution.
    So there you have it.

    • phyllis

      there you said it for over 200 years we didnt have no stinkin sick queer marriage why should we give in to satan and have sick preverted sinful queer marriage now,the majority is against the sinful sick preversion and if left up to the voters and not the evil lawmakers,queer marriage will always lose,just like it did in california and thats where most of your queers are,queers are wrong,always have been wrong and aleways will be wrong you are just sick preverted and full of a sick sinful demon.

      • rodin

        We also have the principles within our society to protect the minority from a tyranny of the majority. If you allow a small majority of people to prevent the granting of equality to a minority, you create fascism.

        • Monika

          I think you need to refresh your knowledge of meaning of democracy, tyrany, fascism and liberty.
          Tyrany is when a small group of people (e.g. Obama and congress) rules over majority. Kiss minority and descriminates majority and this is why they are loosing their support very quickly.

          Democracy is what keeps the world going as more people agree on something the more pieceful life can be. America is a perfect example why globalization (like Obama and UK dream about) is a utopian dream.

        • rodin

          Monica – your response makes no sense whatsoever. “the tyranny of the majority” is a well worn philosophical concept and one for which we pay deep homage with our system of checks and balances. Please please get an education – you’re grade 3 social studies background is starting to wear thin. You blast Obama and call his government a tyranny while he is the first president I’ve seen to try to bring together all sides.

          Your second paragraph is equally obtuse in that the subject and object of each of the two sentences bear no relationship. They’re both pure gibberish designed to show that you might be able to use multisyllabic words. It would help if you understood the concepts first.

        • debra

          Rodin….why do you get up so early in the morning? I noticed time from your postings. Also are you male or female. You seem very intelligent and also funny…..me funny….Debra

        • rodin

          debra – LMAO- America has what are called “time-zones”. That means it is earlier in California than it is in New York by about 3 hours. This website time-stamps replies based on a different timezone than my own.. I try not to get up before 7 on a Sunday. For instance if in my time zone it is 9:00 am, then in California it is only 6:00 am and in Denver it is 7:00 am and in Chicago it is 8:00 am. Not sure what time or year it is in Texas.

      • John S

        Poooooor Old Phyllis going off like a bottle rocket.

        I only have one piece of advice for you.

        If you don’t like queer marriage…………don’t marry a queer.

        • Smilee

          We can’t even be really sure Phyllis is not married to a queer and maybe they are at the moment in a midst of a big spat??? It does sound a little like she’s venting!!

    • 13th Gen. American

      Ya there might be nothing in there because a bunch of men in frilly shirts and wigs never could imagine in their wildest dreams that a bunch of men in frilly shirts and wigs would actually want to get married.

    • 13th Gen. American

      This country was founded on Judao/Christian ethics. So there you have it.

      • rodin

        You’re an idiot. This country was founded by PEOPLE that had a judeo-christian background. Their principles were freedom from tyranny. They specifically allowed for freedom of religion because they recognized that religion itself can be turned into a tyranny. At least get your facts straight or stop trying to talk out of both sides of your mouth.

        • 13th Gen. American

          No really PEOPLE founded it?! Really? (WORD REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT) You said exactly what I said only different. At least Im talking out of my mouth unlike you who talkes out of her (WORD REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT).

        • rodin

          Mr 13 – How did we possibly say the same thing. You said we have judeo Christian ethics – which ethics, the ones that say we shouldn’t eat shellfish or that we should stone adulterers, or priests should diddle kiddies or Jews and witches tortured and burned at stakes or that we should deny astronomy and throw scientists in jail. So tell me (WORD REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT) – which ethics would you like to say are judeo Christian and which Judeo Christian ethics would you like to say aren’t.

        • Denise

          First off,she’s not an idiot,God created her.She’s correct.The pilgrims crossed the ocean to worship God and Jesus in truth and spirit!My ancesters crossed the ocean on the second set of ships for the same reason.Not to be told by a Queen and King how to worship God and Jesus.That’s where our government came from!Pilgrims!

      • Smilee

        Slavery was left legal, no bill of rights to start with, only the rich white men where allowed to vote to start with. Of the people, by the people and for the people wasn’t spoken until Lincoln said them at Gettsburg during the civil war. Does this really sound like it was based on Judeo Christian ethics??? Never the less they started something good and it has been envolving ever since. Gradually blacks gained freedom, much later some rights and respects, Indians more than they once had after these so called christian nation almost wiped them from the face of the earth , women got more rights and the right to vote (took only 131 years) and many others and all these groups met with the same type of resistance coming out that the gays now have for mostly the same old reasons.

        • 13th Gen. American

          I said it was FOUNDED, on those principals, Man however is a sinner by nature and leaves the principles behind to do their own thing ie” the gay lifestyle, Second A Christen is someone who is forgiven from their sins. Not perfect but forgiven. It does not mean any one who isnt a Jew. Third there were thousands and thousands of Christians who helped the blacks fight for freedom. The KKK was a part of the democratic party, especially in the south. It was the Republican President and Christians who changed it. Fourth.God did not say it was an Abomination to him to be black. He said it was one to be gay. 5th. The black population is not very happy you lump yourself in with them. You are using their suffering to get your own way. Im sure some gays suffered but has anyone ever made a slave out of you? Didnt think so. And by the way, You know your President is a muslim right? The muslim community accepts him as their own. When he goes over there he goes on and on how he is a muslim and how proud he is of his muslim parents. Do you know what muslims do to gays????? Look it up. So while your crying over your cappuccino and taking your drugs to help with your AIDS thing. Remember this. You have more freedom and tollerance here in America than just about anywhere on the planet. You have more people kissing your sick ass to make you happy. When the Muslim do take over, and they will, you will be Praying for the day when the Christian hate mongers didnt kill you. Chop off your heads. Chop off your hands and all sorts of lovely things. There will be a day and its getting closer when the Lord will take us all out of here. When He does you just try to even sashey a little and your royally screwed.

        • Smilee

          13

          If it was founded on these principals then why did the constitution not then reflect those founding principals, you can’t have one with out the other. Republicans or Democrats what difference does it make, Lincoln a republican set them free and Lyndon Johnson a democrat gave them civil rights. Both parties have been on the right and wrong side of this issue depending what era you are talking about. I did not equate blacks with gays I equated both gays and blacks as well as others as being human beings. You spun it that way to so you could attach what you said and not what I said. OUR President Obama says he is a Christian and you say he is a muslim, why should I believe you? I am sure he knows better than you about that. The muslims may show him respect but do not take him as their own that is just your wishful thinking so you can make yourself believe this lie. Obama got that respect because he first showed respect I am not sure you are capable to understand that given the spin you put on my first reply. You say “When he goes over there he goes on and on how he is a muslim,,” Obama has never said he was of the muslim faith this is an out and out lie on your part and about as rotten as the rest you have said in your reply and that only shows you are devoid of any character. What is wrong with being proud of your parents whomever they are. Got something against that too?? Also judging from your statements you seem to have a huge amount of hate for gays, democrats, Obama, me and everyone else who may disagree with you or does not share in your hateful ways.

    • Denise

      I’m sorry but the pilgrims left England because they didn’t want a king and queen telling them how to worship God.That’s who started our government.

      • Smilee

        Denise

        Then you would think that you should not be telling everyone here how to worship God. Why not give these people the same freedoms that your ancestors had if in fact they did have any.

        • Denise

          A freedom for sexual perversion isn’t a right.What’s next,sex with children,animals?

        • Smilee

          A freedom for sexual perversion isn’t a right.What’s next,sex with children,animals?

          Child abuse and sexual child abuse is now illegal, are you really afraid someone is planning to change these laws, Ridiculous, you have somewhat perverted fears of your own then. I do not know what you mean by “right”, I can only think what is legal is not and what is illegal is.

    • Denise

      Bellamy was a Baptist-fact!

  • http://personallibertydigest Bell

    I have been trying to formulate my thoughts to make them clear to all the partisepants of this debat. I hope I will suceed. As always, I enjoy them and agree with parts of all. So without condeming any one inparticular I shall say, it has been my understanding threw listening and reading that all religions believe in something greater then ones self alone. Christians used to condem all non Christian religions this didn’t win any true believers to them and still doesent. When the protestant revolution broke from Rome the Roman church was the only organized Christion church and it had become corrupt. When human kind has free rein over anything including themselves they do generaly become corrupt. Marriage was once a planned thing. The wealthy had many children because the man could provide for his wife and his many children. The poor had many children because they often died long before adulthood, in their case only the strongest survived. Mans job was to provide and protect and womens job was to protect and nurish. I read many years ago a book on human sexuality in it there was a line drawing of a man and a woman capulating. I could not tell who was who because there was no separation between the 2. A line drawing between a man and a man or woman with woman shows 2 people. The ceremony used to end with ” and the 2 shall be as 1, and let no man put assunder what God has joined together”. Also the laws of marriage back in Jesus’ time was no devorce unless cought in adultry. Now we have any number of reasons for devorce. But even then both parties were not to remarry. Marrige is now run by our governments with 60% of them ending in devorce and remarrage and devorce and remarried. I t makes me very confeused about who is the father or the mother of certain children and when a child of the most recent marriage says he is the uncle of an older man wow that realy scrambles me,I can immagine what it must do to the child. I suggest saying they may cohabitate. Adoption only if there is a very strong commitment to one another. No government support of children should one mate die. Since homosexuals own 80% of all the doctorates( I read this somewhere) they should be abble to put money aside to help with maintinence and upkeep of the children and there significant other threw their grief. Love is the key in it all and it seems to have disapeared from our lives. We mistake chemestry for love.

    • libertytrain

      How nice, polite and civil your reply was. One doesn’t have to agree with everything said so it’s a treat to see an opinion done with civility instead of caustic words.

  • http://yahoo Harold Hartsock

    Dear America

    No one in his right mind will support gay marriage,it send a message to our children that it is acceptable,it reflects on your judgment and character. As a parent would you want your children to be exposed to any of this?It is man and woman now and forever!Gays are unfit for all walks of life it is shamefull to say the least.There is no cause to deliberate on this issue anymore.

    • rodin

      Sorry DUDE, you’re wrong….. There is nothing unacceptable about being GAY…. It’s like saying it’s unacceptable to be left handed. And personally, I believe that your hatred and bigotry is unacceptable. I believe that teaching hatred is tantamount to child abuse and you yourself are not fit to raise children.

      • Denise

        You call everyone hateful and a bigot,but what are you?They are telling the truth from God Almighty!If you have a problem with that,take it up with God!

        • rodin

          I talk with her all the time! We’ll talk even more the next time we see each other. Until then, I try to live according to principles which reflect everybody’s basic freedoms and respect for physical persons.

          How could you possibly consider me a bigot when I believe you should have ALL the same rights that I have. I’m not taking away anything from you or granting another class something that you don’t have.

        • Smilee

          People who put down any human for any reason is a bigot , rodin is only pointing this when one of you do this, then you all spin this as him calling them that when has used the term to only describe in short what was said, it does not escape me how many are saying hateful and hurtful things about the gays and I admire him for pointing this out. Bigotry on its face is hateful to whom ever it is forced on.

    • Denise

      AMEN!

  • Albert

    SEPARATION OF RAUNCH AND STATE

    (It's still legal - and always God-honoring - to air messages like the following. See Ezekiel 3:18-19. In light of government backing of raunchy behavior (such offenders were even executed in early America!), maybe the separation we really need is the "separation of raunch and state"!)

    In Luke 17 in the New Testament, Jesus said that one of the big “signs” that will happen shortly before His return to earth as Judge will be a repeat of the “days of Lot” (see Genesis 19 for details). So gays are actually helping to fulfill this same worldwide “sign” (and making the Bible even more believable!) and thus hurrying up the return of the Judge! They are accomplishing what many preachers haven’t accomplished! Gays couldn’t have accomplished this by just coming out of closets into bedrooms. Instead, they invented new architecture – you know, closets opening on to Main Streets where little kids would be able to watch naked men having sex with each other at festivals in places like San Francisco (where their underground saint – San Andreas – may soon get a big jolt out of what’s going on over his head!). Thanks, gays, for figuring out how to bring back our resurrected Saviour even quicker!

    If you would care to learn about the depraved human "pigpen" that regularly occurs in Nancy Pelosi's district in California, Google "Zombietime" and click on "Up Your Alley Fair" in the left column. And to think - horrors - that she is only two levels away from being President!

    • rodin

      Why are quoting Dr.Seuss on an issue of societal philosophy….. Start using your noggin instead of falling in line with whimsical fairy tales that hold potentially only minor importance in managing current affairs.

  • Dale

    It seems as if…Dick has reached the same emotional
    conclusion as Colin Powell. Colin Powell must have
    felt that since Barack Obama was of like skin then
    he must be okay, so therefore he should be President.
    Like Powell, Cheney must have thought that since his
    daughter is a lesbian and she’s my kin, then it must not
    be a sin. Let’s ALL just throw reason, logic, nature
    and morality out the window and side with the devil.

    After all, it FEELS better to take the EASY road. Many
    more cases like this and I’m going to toss my Republican
    voters I.D. in the fire and become an Independant,
    before we all become a nation of government dependants.

    • rodin

      I’m sure you’ll find some kind of twisted logic to prove or rationalize anything. Start instead from basic principles of respect and equality…. then you might see the light.

      • Denise

        There isno equality with sexual perverts!

        • St John the Baptist

          You have much pain in your heart Denise. We try to teach understanding and love as the most important of values. I’m hoping you will find solace in the following teachings and wisdom.

          Let’s begin with the Biblical understanding that humankind was created in the image of God.

          Let us then extend the Rabbinic claim that the whole Torah and Bible exists for the sake of peace (Gittin).

          And let us finally be reminded of the prayer:

          “Let there be a truly great peace between every person and their fellow… and let there be no discord between people even in their hearts.”

          Denise, if you let the light and love of Jesus into your heart and accept other sinners just as you sin, you will feel some of your burden vanish. I’m hoping some of your pain will be lifted.

  • http://? N Jablonski

    Whether people like it or not God did create our world, He made man and took Adams rib and made woman to be his helper.God has made it so easy for us to have a good life and then people screw it up to believe what they want selfishly. It is not what we want it is the way he has made us andhe hasnot made any mistakes so therefor forget what you selfishly want and do as God intended for us, and that is one man, and one woman, and one marraige.Whether you believe it or not the Holy Bible gives us instructions on how we should live our lives, and it denounces, 2 women together and 2 men together. It teaches only One man and one woman to be married to each other.If you believe the Holy Bible as the word of God then there should be no question about this foolishness. I do believe that science has said that these mixed up unfortunate people are self made, and have payed no attention to the way it was intended to be.

    • rodin

      Why do so many people on this web site abdicate their responsibility for purposeful thought and replace it with abject blind adherence to a belief system that is not universal. However, you believe that if you say it loudly or often enough then people will think you have the only universal belief system or interpretation of it. Wake up.

      No more supposed quoting of GOD or BIBLE … I mean (WORD REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT) really cares what you think your deity wants.

      • 13th Gen. American

        EXACTLY our point my dear. “(WORD REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT) really cares what your deity wants” Thats why there is so much sin and depravity and corruption because people stopped caring what God thinks.They only care about what they feel and what they want.Unfortunately just because you dont care doesnt mean you dont have to answer to him later. Its like if you commit a crime and get caught. Sooner or later your going to have to suffer the consequences for it at some time.

        • rodin

          Oh Oh Oh… mr.13. You so wrongfully assume that those who do not share your religion have no values of their own. Personally, I believe your morals are hypocritical…. you espouse some form of Christianity and yet you would seek to hurt fellow human beings that do not share the same belief system as yourself. Criminality has no relationship to religion… some of the most heinous criminal acts are committed by the most religious and religious societies do not have lower levels of overall crime. I fail to see your point except that like spewing hateful rhetoric. Some of us actually respect other lifestyles and see a lot more good than harm in acceptance and respect.

        • 13th Gen. American

          How am I harming you? I disagree and of course you dont get it. If you did there would be no discussion.

      • rodin

        Mr 13.

        You are harming millions of Americans by denying them rights and treating as 2nd class citizens. When a gay partner cannot visit a dying partner in the hospital because the hospital doesn’t recognize their relationship, when a court sets aside a will and testament where property is passed to a partner and determines that brothers and sisters have a prior claim, when being denied partner benefits for insurance and pensions….. how many rights would you like to deny to gays. And so yes, you are hurting people. I could care less whether you agreed or disagreed with someone being gay…. just don’t discriminate against them.

        • Denise

          They have the same rights as anybody under the constitution.No more no less.Why do you need more rights than the rest of us?

        • Denise

          Because they can’t have their way in God’s house.Gee,what will they do when God destroys them and creates a new heaven and new earth?They will be tormented in front of Jesus and the holy angels forever.

        • Denise

          No one is discriminating against them.All they have to do is get a will to tell where their goods go or a living will to say what they want.

      • Denise

        Because we have our right to freedom of speech too!

      • Denise

        One day you will die and face the very God you reject.Read Isaiah66 in the Old Testament,Rodin.

      • Denise

        Because you’re being warned!God Almighty commands us to warn sinners to turn from their sin or they will die in their sin and go to hell.Accept Jesus as Lord and Saviour and repent(That means to stop sinning,gay lifestyle,adultry,etc..)Yes we all have fallen short of the glory of God.No not one is righteous.So I pray for you ,myself and others to come to the truth.Don’t die in your sins….Repent and come to Jesus and be set free!

  • Norm CT

    A few thoughts on religion from Mr. Jefferson………

    In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own.
    -Thomas Jefferson, letter to Horatio G. Spafford, March 17, 1814

    Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear.
    -Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 10, 1787

    Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting “Jesus Christ,” so that it would read “A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;” the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination.
    -Thomas Jefferson, Autobiography, in reference to the Virginia Act for Religious Freedom

    Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should ‘make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,’ thus building a wall of separation between church and State.
    -Thomas Jefferson, letter to Danbury Baptist Association, CT., Jan. 1, 1802

    Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law.
    -Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814

    • Denise

      Why did the pilgrims cross the ocean?Gee was it because they wanted to worship God and Jesus in truth and spirit and not be told by a Queen and King how to worship God and Jesus.

    • Denise

      That’s a lie.The pilgrims where here first and set up the main government.Thomas Jefferson had a great amount of Bibles in his library.All of the founding Father’s created the law against giving any religion a national church because we don’t want to recognize pagan beliefs.

    • Denise

      Get the point,No laws establishing a national religion or the free excersize thereof…

  • Norm CT

    Jefferson quotes II

    Among the sayings and discourses imputed to him [Jesus] by his biographers, I find many passages of fine imagination, correct morality, and of the most lovely benevolence; and others again of so much ignorance, so much absurdity, so much untruth, charlatanism, and imposture, as to pronounce it impossible that such contradictions should have proceeded from the same being.

    -Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Short, April 13, 1820

    Priests…dread the advance of science as witches do the approach of daylight and scowl on the fatal harbinger announcing the subversions of the duperies on which they live.
    -Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Correa de Serra, April 11, 1820

    • Denise

      “All good gifts come down from the Father of lights,God.”

  • Libertyman

    Homosexuality is a bad choice. Or is genetic…well if it is, that means you could take a pill and cure it. right?? Now how many sodomites would do that i wonder???? And one more thing….When a man has sex with a under age boy (i.e. catholic church, or NAMBLA, nutsey pelosie’s biggest caimpaign donar) why is that not called GAY. Sorry homo dudes you guys are gross on so many levels. but your homosexual mafia attacks and attacks good people in this country and basic tennants that made us great… thanks for destroying the greatest country this mud ball has ever seen….but just remember, You 1% of the population are right and the other 99% are wrong.
    Here’s to padded seats. ( I notice even elton j is using one ;-o))))

    • rodin

      I think you need a complete padded ROOM.

      • Denise

        Isn’t it funny how every christian is wrong and you are right.Gee when you face God ,do you think when the angels bind you and throw you in the lake of fire they’ll be wrong?

        • rodin

          I didn’t say your were wrong. I said you weren’t respectful of others that don’t share your belief system. Who knows, MAYBE god WILL send down her angels to bind me and throw me into the lake of fire. Until then, I’ve got to live my life to respect others rights, freedoms and their physical person.

      • Denise

        Try a padded room for yourself!

        • rodin

          Ooooh… the retort! How sharp thy dagger stings.

          You’re a funny lady!

      • Denise

        I think God will deal with you!I know my rights1st&7th Amendment!

    • John S

      Red hair and blue eyes are genetic and some times stupidity is too.

      If you can take a pill to get rid of it, I suggest you get those meds right away.

      • Libertyman

        Typical homo playbook response, attack,attack,attack. First you missed the opening line”homosexuality is a bad choice” And it IS a choice. just like stealing,murder,lying, abortion and other sick, bad choices.

        Bottom line you’re wrong, their is no constitutional protection for sodomy. So go back in the closet, keep it to yourselves and quit trying to get the gov’t indoctrination centers to tell our children your normal, because you’re NOT.

        Can’t wait for the homo playbook chapter two response. GET HELP!!!!

        • rodin

          OK. Chapter 2

          You need help for your vile bigotry, hatred and uninformed ignorance.

        • libertyman

          hey “(WORDS REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT)” bla bla bla..shut up and go away.

        • Smilee

          US Supreme Court decided a few years ago in a Texas case the it is constitutional.

  • American Citizen

    When I first became eligible to vote at the age of 21, I was a registered Democrat. As the years went by and I became older and hopefully wiser, I found the Democrat Party had turned into something with which I could not tolerate. So I became a registered Republican. As time went by, the Republicans also had some ideas with which I could not agree, so I became an Independent.

    About 10 years ago, while trolling through the radio stations, I came upon a voice that made me stop and listen. It happened to be Rush Limbaugh. For goodness sakes, here was somebody saying what I believed. Rush is not a voice for the Republican Party, he is a voice for conservatives, of which I am. He criticizes the Republicans as much as he does the Democrats if you listen to him. He is pretty right on with his predictions of what will happen. It’s called using common sense and having the ability to see fallacies in policies. Most of the time, after listening to the politicians, I come to my own conclusions, and find Rush, Sean and others have come to the same conclusions. I rarely hear a Democrat or liberal who will stand up for right and wrong. They have bleeding hearts and I guess haven’t heard that the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

    • 13th Gen. American

      DUDE< That could be me exactly how you put it. EXACTLY!. I do believe there are more and more of us every day.

    • Smilee

      I listen to Rush and Hannity fairly often every time I want a laugh and to renew my motivation to work to see that their kind of politicians never get elected. They and their kind are not conservatives even though they claim to be, they are just greedy and hateful people spreading that with their lies to destroy all rational discourse in the country., they are the problem and not the solutions this country very badly needs.

      • Denise

        Is there a problem with being conservative and wanting decency and morality?

      • Denise

        It says in the Bible that the arrogant man ‘s house will be brought to nothing.

        • Smilee

          No, but that is not what Rush and his sidekicks are all about, They claim to be conservative but come across
          as phonies. They are incapable of having honest discourse with anyone and that ends up distorting everything they say. People that can use rational discourse don’t lower themselves to name calling and making fun of people they do not like or agree with and truth is important to them, none of these apply to Rush and his sidekicks. People are waking up though only about 21 million now back according to the polls he has really dived.

          • Humbert

            Yeah, right. toc(tonge on cheek)

        • Smilee

          I trust you are praying hard for the arrogant Rush and Hannity then and I applaud you for that

  • Norm CT

    Rush Limbaugh quotes for “American Citizen”

    “The only way to reduce the number of nuclear weapons is to use them.”

    “Screw the world. Do you really think we ought to govern ourselves based on what the world thinks of us?”

    This is no different than what happens at the Skull and Bones initiation…I’m talking about people having a good time, these people, you ever heard of emotional release? You ever heard of the need to blow some steam off?” –on the Abu Ghraib prisoner abuse scandal

    In 1995: “Too many whites are getting away with drug use…Too many whites are getting away with drug sales…The answer is to go out and find the ones who are getting away with it, convict them, and send them up the river, too.”

    In 2003: “I am addicted to prescription pain medication.”

    “Feminism was established so as to allow unattractive women easier access to the mainstream of society.”

    There is no conclusive proof that nicotine’s addictive… And the same thing with cigarettes causing emphysema, lung cancer, heart disease.”

    “The NAACP should have riot rehearsal. They should get a liquor store and practice
    robberies.”

    “[African Americans] are twelve percent of the population. Who the hell cares?”

    “One of the things I want to do before I die is conduct the homeless olympics…the 10 metre shopping cart relay, the dumpster dig, and the hop, skip, and trip.”

    “I may be wrong … Lindsey Graham is certainly close enough to [McCain] to die of anal poisoning.”

    • John S

      You and I know the same Rush Limbaugh. I marvel at the lack of responses to your post on this thread.

      Funny how all the Limbaugh, Hannity, and Beck worshipers here don’t have a thing to say. Their all obviously in total agreement with Limbaugh.

      They are all in tow with the absurd herd’s tail in their teeth. Wow what a conga line. Check out the Sara Palin for president tattoos. there every where.

    • Denise

      Right on!

      • rodin

        I can’t believe you would publicly agree to what Limbaugh says above. I knew you were ignorant, but this is a little too much even for you. I’ll bet you’re one popular chick around the cornmash campfire.

        • Denise

          I see the 1st Amendment only applies to homosexuals.We don’t have a right to have free speech,just you.Real unbiggoted of you!

        • Denise

          You call people ignorant because they don’t agree with homosexuality.Gee,I guess everybody’s wrong and all the homosexuals are right?When you face God and he has the angels bind you and throw you in a lake of fire what will you do then?It will be too late because you rejected the truth.

        • Denise

          This is America not Russia,not China not Islam.I have a 1st & 7th Amendment right and so does Rush Limbaugh,Hannity and the rest of conservative talk radio.Got a problem with allowing them their rights?

        • Denise

          I’m not ignorant.I believe Rush Limbaugh has a right to express how he feels even if I do or donot agree with him.

        • Denise

          Because someone is for conservative values you bash them.How sad!They have a 1st&7th Amendment right!

  • Connie in Keene

    I am responding to Rodin, even though a “reply” was not provided. Being sarcastic (referring to the “apparatus” comment) really does nothing to further the discussion.

    If one believes in God the Creator they understand that He instituted marriage at the beginning of creation. Perhaps humans think they know better than God so that marriage is no longer necessary. Its an interesting place to put ourselves—-thinking we know better than God how His created beings function best.

    You asked the question—are there civil & religious unions? Yes. There are marriages conducted by a minister or priest & there are marriages conducted by a justice of the peace or whatever. I suspect you knew that.

    And now we are back to my original statement—that the word MARRIAGE has referred to a man & a woman for a long, long time. The legality of it is another topic. What we call it is already established & I see no need to change it. Be creative & come up with another word to identify commitments other than between a man & a woman.

    • rodin

      Sorry Connie… I didn’t ask any question. However, for the sake of clarity, there is no such thing as a religious marriage. There are only civil marriages that are performed by either a priest or JP. I have no problem with what you’re suggesting, which I believe is a civil union concept. What might make sense is to get the government completely out of the marriage game and let the churches or whoever perform them… They would have no legal status whatsoever. The government could also provide for civil union licenses or set up legislation along the lines of common law in several states.

      • Connie in Keene

        No such thing as a religious marriage? Are you kidding?

        What happens when a marriage is dissolved if it did not have a legal document called a license? As far as unions between same sex persons, a legal document is wise, even if it is only a court document that spells out the intentions. Anything less is foolish.

        • rodin

          Sorry, Connie… I think my meaning was not presented properly. What I meant was that there is no meaningful instance of religious marriage in the absence of civil marriages. All the marriages I`ve seen performed in Churches, (including my own) already had a civil marriage license. I am certain that there are instances of certain churches which perform their unions in the absence of state involvement, but as a percentage, the statistic is not meaningful

          I agree with all of your thoughts regarding documentation and protections

        • Denise

          It’s not a marriage.God ordained Marriage.It’s in the Old Testament and New Testament.Nowhere is there an example of two men or two women being joined in Holy matrimony.

        • Connie in Keene

          Denise, I agree—a marriage is a union between a man & a woman as ordained by God from the beginning. However, people do choose to form same-sex unions. While that is not a MARRIAGE, it still needs some sort of legal document to keep things in order.

          Over the years many unmarried ladies have chosen to share household expenses & duties. It can provide companionship without being a sexual relationship. Here is where legal documents would be drawn up for ownership & to detemine how the property is divided at death—a will, if you please. But its not a “marriage”. Its not kinky to enjoy a lifetime of friendship

  • Ron Teidel

    The responses to this topic have been all over the map for what is a pretty simple question.

    Cheney’s support of homosexual marriage will only split the GOP in the minds of the left-handed liberals. They would have us believe it would have some outcome on the direction or success of the GOP. It is another ploy to have the morally grounded conservatives question their own direction. Cheney is not a spokesperson for the GOP, he is a defender of the Bush administration.

    Cheney does not fit into the success or failure of the GOP. His views on homosexual marriage is not a platform for the GOP or conservatives. The mental midget liberals tried to use the choice of homosexuality against Cheney and Bush in the 2004 debates. Can you imagine that five short years ago the liberals took the position that homosexuality was unfortunate, but commended Cheney for the support of his daughters homosexuality. Now the liberals want to stir up ficticious division for the GOP for those that might oppose Cheney’s view.

    Did any clear thinking American actually think that Cheney would throw his own daughter under the bus for a political stand opposing homosexual marriage? Not a chance! Betrayal and deceit for political power is the Democratic liberal way.

  • John S

    A reply to Debra YOUR POST

    June 6th, 2009 at 2:54 am

    John S..you may be a very fine person …but for anyone to have sex via the rectum where stool is stored and excreted is not NORMAL or NATURAL!! Also as gay men get older..their anus is so stretched that they are unable to hold the stool and have to wear adult diapers.

    REPLY

    Other than the fact that I am a gay you have no more Idea what I do under the covers any more than I know what you do.

    Where do you get off lecturing me about anal sex? Are so uninformed you think that is every gay person’s preference? I do know however, that anal sex has become quite common among men and women as a means to avoid pregnancy.

    From what I read at least it has become pervasive among high school and college students.

    Might want to check that out. When you do, you might want to send some of them a complementary box of Depends just in case

    • debra

      John you are right when you say I dont know every gay persons preference. and that may be the problem between straights and gays. Straights dont understand!!! We have tried...to understand...but we cant. Im not lecturing..anal sex is what we straights cant understand. And you are right about more men/women relationships performing anal sex. We are and have been seeing an increase in emergency room visits (mostly gay men) from bleeding tears,to bowel obstructions from objects being inserted,mutilations of penis and so on. I think we see it as a perversion. We don`t understand your Feelings…is it a deep lasting love,respect for each other,never to stray…HELP us straight people to understand without getting verbally abusive.Debra

    • Denise

      When your lifestyle brings America to ruin then we who are christians have a right to say something against your immoral sex life.

      • rodin

        No you don’t. You only have the right to live your own life. You’re a bigot and a hater.

        • Denise

          You judge yourself.You are the only ones who get violent if someone doesn’t agree with your sexual perversion.

        • Denise

          I’d say gays who smash windows with hammers and call on the phone and say their going to commit vile sex acts on children aren’t haters,huh?

        • Denise

          I am telling you the truth in God’s own words.If you call me a bigot because I tell you the truth,what are you?

        • Denise

          I want my country to reflect what God wants.

        • Denise

          My God and Jesus don’t allow me to be a hater or a bigot.

        • Denise

          Hate is breaking windows and calling on the phone to say what evil sex acts you’re going to preform on someones children.That’s hate.Telling someone how to escape the wrath of God isn’t hate!Try JesusChrist!

        • Denise

          I’m not a bigot or a hater.My God and saviour doesn’t allow me to hate.It’s considered murder in God’s eyes(HATE).

    • Denise

      How would you know what heterosexuals are doing in their bedroom?Are you God now?

  • John S

    B-Man SAID

    June 6th, 2009 at 1:11 pm

    Well it’s pretty sad when you have to find approval from a celeberty. My hero is God and when he says it’s not an acceptable lifestyle choice and that he will not honor that. We have removed the TEN COMMANDMENTS from our lives which make life and how we live it pretty darn clear. This does not make me a hate person, it’s a guild for my life. Im always trying to achieve all 10 but im human. As long as I keep trying we will see in the end who stays up and who gets passed up.

    REPLY

    Gee G-MAN,

    That is some post you had on the ten commandments. I don’t think there is anything wrong with them. Especially the one that says LOVE THY “gay” NEIGHBOR AS THY SELF.

    Now I don’t pretend to be a scholar on the ten commandments, but I can rest assure you that we gay guys take at least one of them very seriously, and NEVER violate it.

    It’s the one that says THOW SHALL NOT COVET THEY NEIGHBOR’S “WIFE” Trust me,….. you can never get us on that one.

    • Libertyman

      What about covet thy neighbors husband, you poor sick man!

      • John S

        Hey liberty man, I looked up the 10 commandments, and it doesen’t say a danm thing about coneting your neighbors husband, so don’t worry about. Any of your neighbors that would be sick enough to want to jump your tired old creekey bones has nothing to worry about. Their safe with the 10 commandments. He he.

        • libertyman

          ROTFLMFAO, hey Johnny what the hell took you so long to reply??? DUDE if i’m going to have flaming blog wars with a flamer, I need you to hold your end up (NO PUN INTENDED.)

    • Denise

      It said,”Love thy neighbor as thy self.”

      • rodin

        Why don’t you start.

        • Denise

          I pray for this nation and it’s leaders and citizens every day!

        • Denise

          I am by warning you what will happen if you die in your homosexuality,that’s sin in God’s eyes and a christian’s eyes.

        • Denise

          I already have.I’ve told you the truth.Accept Jesus Christ and turn from your sin:Homosexuality.When you do then you will be forgiven by God and Jesus.I will pray for you.

        • Denise

          I pray God opens your eyes to Jesus before it’s too late.Homosexuals will burn in hell forever before Jesus and the holy angels.Read the Bible and be enlightened.God has the final word!Not gays ,not man,not woman!

    • Denise

      Then read:Leviticus18:22,1Romans18-32,1Corinthians6 as you think you can quote only part of God’s word and not know his whole agenda.

  • Peter Melville

    Rodin,
    I have no doubt that is a valid argument or view point that you have. Each of us has our life to live and we can pretty much do that in America. It matters more what we think of ourselves that what someone else thinks. I just do not see how anyone can compel someone who does not believe the gay lifestyle is morally right to say that it is. We can accept each other without approving. My Mother and Father accepted my but they didn’t always approve of my choices.

    Saving money is a good thing!

    • rodin

      Peter, I never asked you to accept homosexuality as morally right. Your morals are your own. What I do require is that you recognize that they are individuals and should not be persecuted because you don’t like them. I don’t like my neighbor on one side, but does that mean that I should try and get his ability to vote removed?

      Keep your morals, live your life, go to your own church, hang out with others that say they believe the same things…. just also keep them out of the secular legal system which is supposed to enshrine equality and rights for all, including those you don’t like.

      • Peter Melville

        Fair enough Rodin. In the interest of that, we could all be a little more civil with each other (as you have with me). Offensive language just stokes the flames.
        Words do have the potential to harm as you know.

      • BARBIE

        Hi, Rodin. I feel you are wrong on this one. Our government at this time is based on what is good and right for the majority and some day we will be walking in your shoes. (Not without a fight of course) It is rapidly becoming a world where what is wrong seems perfectly fine with man: Proverbs 14:12 (King James Version) There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death. And because of all this happening I believe you just may be around to see what happens to us only for the love of Jesus Christ and you. So be it. We will go out fighting for you and our Christ.

    • rodin

      We all do things in life that others consider immoral. It matters not what they think. I eat pork which would be a sin to about over billion people on the planet. I also kill insects which is abhorrent to Buddhists. I don’t like using recyclable bags which is sinful to all the conservationists…. face it…. we all sin to someone elses morals. What matters is we have a common set of secular rights so that we can live together and respect each others differences while behaving according to our own morals, as long as it doesn’t infringe on others rights.

      • Peter Melville

        Well, I can’t argue with that. Just talking about the source of morality in America, it comes mostly from Christianity and Judaism. It was never meant to be enforced by laws or nationalized. Faith doesn’t work like that. When you take faith and try to make a religion out of it, that is where we get into trouble.

        So really I have to agree that mutual respect is good. If morality is objective, it will defend itself. If it is subjective then it doesn’t really matter what we within limits of societies requirements.

        • Denise

          When homosexuals die of aids/hiv or some other std then it becomes a matter of safety for others in society.Thereby the homosexual lifestyle is endangering others.

      • Libertyman

        The old secular humanist argument. Chap 8 -homo play book..
        your argument is not well thought out. by your thinking…how i feel when I get up in the morning is the law of the day—good defence for pedophiles…I can hear it now….. it’s okay because I said so.

        • rodin

          Mr Libertyman

          I’m sorry you did not understand the gist of the argument. The “law of the land” as you call it must have a basis for recognizing that there will be different “moralities” and therefore must be secular. It must also recognize that nobody has the right to hurt another human or infringe upon their basic secular rights – primary among them is security of the person. I fail to see how that supports pedophilia which by it’s definition is harmful to children.

        • Libertyman

          In one case there is no definition and in the other there is. do you even read back what you write.

          your trying to use some sick twisted philosophy to justify your behavior. it’s falling flat. it doesn’t follow any moral guidelines at all.

          you argument is….i have the right to be a homo and you better accept it or your wrong….isn’t that just about it…but you offer this red herring of an argument…PULEASE..

          and believe me, i understand the bait and switch nature of your argument….btw, you lose

  • rodin

    I’m still trying to figure out what all the radical Christian Ayatollahs are arguing for in this space. Most seem to argue that being gay itself is a sin and should be outlawed. That’s not the issue. Gay is not a crime. Bashing is.

    Where we are at now is whether they should have the same rights to insurance, hospital access and pensions and alimony and support and all the other things that committed couples have automatically if they’re straight. Forget about arguing whether your god likes gays or not… thats F!@#$ing irrelevant because it’s already been decided by the courts. You can’t go around hurting them.

    The ONLY thing that’s relevant is whether society gets to persecute them any more as a couple

    • Libertyman

      This argument is right out of chap 1 – homo play book. attack first, then make some specious argument. then state some unknown right. then claim some damage. well done …homo.

      It’s the same old crap and society rejects sodomy

      • rodin

        Dude – grow up… this isn’t a kindergarten playground and your attitudes have no place in a civilized society PERIOD.

        • Libertyman

          So you equate growing up with homosexuality… and it’s civilized to practice homosexual sex

          what planet do you come from?

          so because YOU say it, makes it acceptable and normal…this is how you justify a misguide practice WEEELLLL… o righty than… you convinced me (NOT)

          you need a better argument than that..

          why don’t you just say it….here i’ll help you—You like homo sex and the choice you made to have it.. THAT’S the truth now isn’t it… at least that’s honest..

    • Denise

      Of course when you call christians fascists and ayatollahs you’re not bashing them!

      • rodin

        No I’m not bashing…. and I’m not calling all Christians fascists… Only the ones that want to IMPOSE their morality on others. And I use the word Ayatollah because in seeking to impose morality, they submit their secular rights to those of their religion, creating a theocracy, where the religious rules must be interpreted by the religious leaders. How is that bashing. I’m simply using a direct comparison to something else you might understand. You could similarly call me an agnostic or perhaps a liberal or maybe a free-thinker… although I’m sure you can come up with your own verbiage.

        If you’d ever like to learn about some of the different cultures that inhabit this planet, it might be a worthy education.

        • Denise

          When you reject the truth of God from someone you are rejecting God not them.

        • Smilee

          Denise

          He is not rejecting the truth of God, he just saying that in a free society where there is separation of church and state and you have that right, he never said he rejected it in fact I don’t recall he said one way or the other about himself. He has been defending one’s right to do so and you keep trying to convince us we should not have that right it should be the way you say your God said it should be. God gives a free will and even he does not try to force us to accept him and if that is our choice and he will respect that even while wanting us to accept him. You seem to have trouble accepting that.

        • Denise

          You imposing your evil on everyone is okay?

  • Ray

    Your own conscience tells you that homosexuality is against nature. Animals know better and you will receive your just reward for spreading that perverted lifestyle and the disease it goes with. It has nothing to do with civil liberties or equal rights. Spreading that perverted lifestyle is in the same category as terrorism, murder, rape and every other evil. Look at it honestly or did you lose that ability also.

    • rodin

      I still fail to see how your inept brain fails to see the issue at hand. We’re not arguing about whether people CAN be gay or not. (They CAN and they ARE) We’re not arguing about whether or not they can form households, (They ARE and they WILL).. The issue at hand is whether we as a society can discriminate against their civil rights to obtain the insurance they pay for, or whether they should continue to unwillingly subsidize your taxes, plus about 200 other discriminations that are currently allowed under existing law.

      I don’t really care how many names you want to call them. What I care about is whether you get to hurt them or not.

      • Michelle

        THE PEOPLE SAID NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

        • rodin

          The people decided to strip Jews of their property and that it was right to inflict mob violence on them in Nazi germany.

          The people decided that Blacks should sit at the backs of buses and drink from separate water fountains and not be allowed to marry whites in the US

          The people decided that all good HUTUS should hack the TUTSI’s to death wherever they happened to be.

          Just because you have a MOB doesn’t make what you do right.

        • Libertyman

          IT’s the old compare blacks and jews to homo’s argument. chap 2- homo play book.

          HERE is an interesting fact,, blacks and jews are RACES …homo’s are NOT.

        • Smilee

          Libertyman

          No its not,

          Blacks, Jews, homo’s, whites and everyone else have in common that they are human beings and created by God and in every category their are gays. It appears that you can only accept part of God’s creations and reject those you disapprove of.

      • Libertyman

        YOU DON’T GET civil rights because you practice sodomy… but it IS right out of the homo play book chapter 9..

        • rodin

          So if I understand your argument correctly, homosexuals are not entitled to any civil rights. Does that mean we get to target them for beatings, possibly make them subject to arrest and imprisonment without trials, burn their houses down…. which civil rights are they not entitled to?

          And I know you equate sodomy with homosexuality, but it’s a little known fact in the straight world that not all gay men practice sodomy. What about those that just like a mutual blowjob, or handjobs or …. god forbid just cuddles. And what about homosexual women – are they naturally sodomites as well. OR how about straight couples that like a little spice in their life. Do they lose their civil rights if they try anal sex?

          And since you’re writing a homosexual play book… I know some people that might be real interested in getting a copy… sort of a gay version of Joy of Sex. Have you practiced all the plays..tested each for mutual enjoyment.. provided diagrams. Illustrations or photos would really help sales… remember kama sutra.

        • Libertyman

          Hey idiot, you already have the same civil rights as a hetero….you want special rights- which are not given in any guiding document. (except for the homo play book.)

          Futhermore you are not a homo unless you have homosexual sex….LOOK the word up. IT’S not a race or a political party….IT’S a sex act.

          however it does seem to be forming into a religion…one that has secular humanism at it’s core.

          homo sex doesn’t = love and love doesn’t = homo sex.. go to any homo club or bath house.. stranger on stranger sex…ever hear of AIDS

          spare me your stupid argument it doesn’t hold water. but it is out the homo play book- chapter 7….. I read your book and reject it.

        • Michelle

          I have gay friends, and even they say it is rediculous, they are very happy with the same right that everyone is afforded in this country, it is the radical left that is wanting to change the definition of Marriage, whats next? is it alright to marry and have sexual relations with your dog, cat, horse, goat, monkey, whatever?????? whatever feels good do it? its my right? well for now the PEOPLE HAVE spoken and it has nothing to do with blacks OR any other race or religion, when you dont like the way thing are going you call them a “RACIST”, that’s a cop out and everyone knows it. we the people might have to tolorate you but we DO NOT HAVE TO ACCEPT YOU. you cannot force your beleifs down our throats, they WILL be spit right back in your face.

        • Michelle

          ooops I misspoke, it does have to do with Religion, sorry folks, I got carried away lol

        • Smilee

          Courts have held that sodomy is constitutional

        • libertyman

          NO smillieee. they said it’s not “unconstitutional”….BIG difference…. Look smiilllieee,,, go live with your homo choice and shut the hell up. I realize if you like anal sex nothing anyone is going to say is going to change your choice. So live with it and shut up. And smillllleeee GET HELP.
          Please don’t get AIDS and cause my health care costs to go up. their high enough now. (see I do care!!)

      • Denise

        Homosexuality isn’t a civil right!It’s a sexual preference!

        • rodin

          Denise – you poor soul. All you do is bash away at gays. Tell me do you really want to even share a country with them… or are concentration camps the way to go.

        • Smilee

          Its sexual orientation no preference to it

        • libertyman

          Hey “ROD in” I see you’re still coming up with your shallow, clever attacks right out of your homo play book. Don’t be angry at us because you chose homosexuality and your butt’s sore. NOT MY problem.

          Hey sssmmmmiiiilllllleeeeeee. no study anywhere has ever confirmed that homo is genetic. but if IT was, then it would be considered a disease.
          SO should they come up with a cure? like curing herpes, syphilis or HPV (GOT THEM YET SmmiIIilllEee.)
          Can’t have it both ways ( or do u HAHAHAHAH)

        • Denise

          First off sexual orientation is an absurd way to put something when you want to promote evil.

        • B-Man

          Hey Rodin, why the (WORD REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT) don’t you just go to hell early. I am so damn sick of you (WORDS REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT) pumping buddies trying to sell all of us on your pathetic lifestyle and all your comments will never change the fact that two men will never produce or carry a child and thank God for that. I just am so tired of everyday one more (WORD REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT) selling one more failer plan for this country. God almighty why the hell don’t all of you just shut-up. I and the majority of this country don;t want you or your lifestyle and we never will. Go back to your closets and stay there you rotten stinking filthy waiste of skin.

      • Denise

        You already have rights under the constitution.

        • rodin

          You’re right… now it’s a matter of ensuring that legislation follows those rights. Most times it doesn’t which is why unjust laws are usually taken to court. Our system of government has three branches and it’s the job of each to look out for the tyranny created by one of them. Hence you had GWB’s so-called Patriot Act which upon review by the courts was deemed to far reaching and was also cut back by congress.

        • libertyman

          Hey “ROD in” NOW you’re an expert on gov’t……… why don’t you stick to penis’s or do they stick to you (HAHHAhahahaAHHAHA) Man, I crack me up (OH…. I probably shouldn’t have said crack….) heh hahahaha hehheh

          • keith

            dang,you made laugh untill i had tears in my eyes!darn that WAS FUNNY!!!!!

      • Denise

        When God burns everything up just like Sodom and Gomorrah ,then when you are starving to death maybe you will remember who the boss is:GOD!

  • YAYA

    I think most of you have missed the point.
    It is not whether we belie in gay marriage or not.
    It is the freedom of people’s rights.
    The right to not be discriminated against because of their race, sex, religion, or sexual orientation.

    • B-Man

      Would you grow up! They use phrases like “we want equality” crap and on and on. This is America. We have Laws, Constitution, Bill of Rights ect. etc. Those writings that we are supposed to honor and defend came from God fearing men who used over 800 references from the Bible to put it all together. They did such a good job that practically the entire world wanted to come here for the things that we believed in and the freedoms we offered. All that stuff came at a cost and you did not pay that cost but you sure do enjoy the life here. Now the terrorists, the gays, the cheating spouses and the porn business and the drug happy idiots all want to change what we already had in place. A very well working Republic system. Why don’t all of them get the hell out of here and go find their own Island and live their progressive lifestyles and we will check up and see how well they do. Oh! my-bad. They will in the end. Tooooo bad.

      • Denise

        God already told us that evil men would wax worse and worse.It’s no surprise who they are blinded by-SATAN!The lord rebuke you Satan!

      • Smilee

        Yep we do have and, This is America. We have Laws, Constitution, Bill of Rights ect. and they are there to provide protections to its citizens and were designed to correct against mistreatment of the minority by the majority in addition to other things and I guess if you and your God differ you seem to think you and go ahead and disregard the constitution. But you will not get to do that.

        • Denise

          When you die and face God it won’t be did you uphold the constitution.It will be did you accept Jesus as your Lord and Saviour?If you don’t you go to hell.Read the New Testament and you will see the truth.Every knee will bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord of Lords and King of Kings.Then Jesus will submit everyone to God Almighty!

        • Smilee

          I agree 100% with what you said but what relevance does it have with my post it sure does not contradict it.
          If you disagree with the constitution then do you think it was written by Christians? Many today preach that and when listening to them you would think they believe it is supreme to the word of God.

        • Denise

          When the laws support evil acts against someone,what then?

        • Smilee

          Denise Reply:
          June 25th, 2009 at 1:14 pm

          When the laws support evil acts against someone,what then?

          You can work to change the law and if you are unable to then you accept that. The gays are fighting against evil acts, but you seem to care nothing about those evil acts, I hope I’m wrong.

        • Denise

          What evil acts are the gays fighting?They have acosted an elderly woman carrying a cross demonstrating peacefully against the gay marriage.They have smashed windows in a preacher’s house and called his wife on the phone to tell her what evil sex acts they would perform on her children.Gee,I wonder who has a right to protest against evil gay acts?Huh?

        • Denise

          We arenot mistreating them.We are warning them like God has told us to do.

      • libertyman

        Denise I don’t think SSMMMILLLeeEE gets it. but at least your trying…. Good for you.

    • Denise

      Sexual perversion isn’t a right.Do you know that gay men want to have sex with young boys and baby boys?That’s what you’re promoting when you support gay rights and gay marriage.Most gays aren’t monogomous.They have several partners.They are very violent people.I don’t advocate hurting them,but they attack little old woman who carried a cross protesting peacefully.They attacked a preacher’s house by smashing windows and calling his wife on the phone and telling them what evil sex acts they would perform on their children.This is what you are supporting when you support gay rights and gay marriage.

    • Denise

      When God destroys the harvest,the land and this country ,it won’t matter what rights you have under the constitution.Wake up and realize we have our government bacause of God and pilgrims who crossed an ocean to worship God,Jesus and the Bible in truth and spirit.Are we so far from that now?We will suffer the consequences of our sins,if we continue to say that anything is okay under the constitution.Watch out.

    • keith

      i am sure the perverted inhabitants of the cities of sodem and gommorah as well as the ones around it thought that way as well before they were crispied by god!

  • YAYA

    I think most of you have missed the point.
    It is not whether we believe in gay marriage or not.
    It is the freedom of people’s rights.
    The right to not be discriminated against because of their race, sex, religion, or sexual orientation.

    • Libertyman

      There is no sexual orientation “right” you just made that up. it’s right out of chap 2-homo play book.

      • Smilee

        The courts have not ruled on this and the Constitution is silent on this, but they did rule that sodomy itself is constitutional, you may not like that but it does not change it

        • Denise

          Since when is a sexual perversion constitutional?

        • Smilee

          Who said it was, what I said was the court has not ruled on this as yet, and it is silent on this issue per say, but they have ruled on sodomy and did find it constitutional on a case from Texas and over turned the conviction of the two individuals who brought the suit to the Supreme Court. I don’t remember when but would guess it was about five years ago, time goes fast. It was a big story at the time. You don’t remember it??

        • libertyman

          Wrong… sodomy is unlawful in 17 states.. what does that mean anyway. IT DOESN’T mean anything. Abortion is “Legal” and both are heinous acts. you’ll not get justification in main stream america. that why you’re trying to get the twisted freaks in the obama administration to justify your sick behaviour.
          SO SORRY YOU made the homo choice… SOOO leave me and my family alone …..and GET HELP!!!!

        • Denise

          If they rule sexual perversion constitutional,what’s next,it’ll be okay to rape a baby boy because you’re a gay male?

        • Smilee

          libertyman Reply:
          June 25th, 2009 at 10:47 am

          Wrong… sodomy is unlawful in 17 states.. what does that mean anyway. IT DOESN’T mean anything. Abortion is “Legal” and both are heinous acts. you’ll not get justification in main stream america. that why you’re trying to get the twisted freaks in the obama administration to justify your sick behaviour.
          SO SORRY YOU made the homo choice… SOOO leave me and my family alone …..and GET HELP!!!!

          The laws in seventeen states may still have them on their books but the Supreme Court has struck them down so they can no longer be enforced. It a obvious you have a lot of contempt for the law of the land because you do not like the law. There are many who think your behavior is sick too. The help you suggest I can very well do without. Thank you. Obama administration?? It was the courts that determined these were constitutional. Don’t know much about history either do you. Just strike your anger out at anyone innocent or not and you think I need help.

        • libertyman

          SOOO you never heard of the 10th amendment….. s-dude. what do you do just make stuff up??????????

        • Smilee

          libertyman Reply:
          July 1st, 2009 at 9:01 pm

          SOOO you never heard of the 10th amendment….. s-dude. what do you do just make stuff up??????????

          What does the 10 amendment got to do with it????? It was the court that ruled that it was unconstitutional thus the states, none of them can have can have laws against sodomy. States can make no laws that are not permitted them by the constitution that is what the 10th is all about. Very familiar with the constitution to bad you aren’t or at least you do not understand it.

    • B-Man

      You people, like our government, have been and always will be part of the downfall of America. Your pathetic views on morality and how you deserve to live your life, life are of this earth and Satin runs the earth. He has fully intended on taking down as many people as he can, people who fall weak of living for God’s purpose and just like Eve, after she was asked not to touch the fruit of only one tree out of thousands and she couldn’t do it because she was easily decieved like all of you are. You listen to the crap that these morons spit out everyday without one though of Truth. Its The devil working on weak humans and I guess your just to stupid and weak to stand on priciple. Each generation needs the values and consistancy that our founding fathers obviously understood and instead of thinking that because we live in different times all the basic values should change to fit this and future generations. Completely the opposite. Their core values are just starting to make more sence than ever today. Every single successful individual will tell you that as they get more and more successful they need more and more mentorship in their life. But you people think that mans laws and the governments laws mean something. The only laws that mean anything are Gods laws and you will find out. When applied, I have never seen any of God’s laws hurt or harm anyone. There is nothing about God that is violent. He has laws and he has consiquences, just like any good father would teach their child about right and wrong. Not always comfortable but always in our BEST interest long term. (Like Eternity?)

      • Smilee

        I believe he also said Give on to Ceaser what is Ceaser’s and unto God what is God’s. Does this not tell us all to respect our man made laws as well, that being in the USA as the supreme law, the US Constitution. It appears to me you have a great disrespect for it.

        • B-Man

          The premis for my statements was based on the perfection of our Bill of Rights and The Constitution. They are perfect just the way they were written and should be honored for all time. But people get it in their heads that, if I don’t like that rule and I don’t believe in that law and are always comprimising what is in those documents to fit the feelings of today, then we are standing on sand and basically we have no truth or foundation to keep us in check. It’s like shooting an arrow with no target. Where do you aim? People do what is convenient not what is right. There are over 800 references from the Bible in both of those documents and in almost every presidents diaries somewhere they referenced a quote from the Bible in speaches or memos. Washington and Linclon were probably the stogest in their faiths. God was so previlent that they put it on our currency and in our Supreme Court. This would most likely make us a very stong Christian nation in values with a melting pot of other faiths and beliefs living here in this country. But the core values of this country were set in stone by our founding fathers and they framed those documents based on what they believed and how they believed our country could withstand for all time. The fact that this administration wants to destroy the rock, change the value system which changes all of the meaning behind our documents to the point that they have almost become trash, is what is making me pissed off. I love those truths and my granfather and father faught for those truths and this group wants to spit in the face of those men. It’s the direction of change and what is being changed that is why Im pissed off. How can we respect what they are doing to our values, documents, morals, finances, takeover of private industries which will eliminate competition, and expect to have a free nation of creative , dreamers , and inovators when we are going to be silenced, and controlled, and taxed to the point that you can’t afford to be in business. It’s not just a Nation of Laws but the substance behind those laws that sustain their value. Why if your married don’t you just go out and cheat on your wife every night or kill someone each day? What holds us accountable, It’s not some stupid peice of paper. We have a moral value behind every law that gives it purpose. Otherwise its just words on a paper that say don’t do that. Without value the words are empty. People are born with those inate feelings inside but where and how they grow up influences them over time. We know right from wrong, or stress, pressure, depression and all those feelings would’nt exist. They are the result of how someone acts on a good choice or a bad choice. Bad ones eat at you and effect other decisions in our lives. I respect our laws in this country, but I do not respect what this administration is turning our laws and values into. We cannot kill babies, we cannot distroy the sanctity of Marraige by tainting it’s magnitude of importance with an immoral and scewed vision of an un-acceptable sexual lifestyle. What they do behind their doors is between their maker and them. But a Country that has a Christian Based foundation ,a Constitution and Bill of Rights that used 800 references from the Bible to frame it’s laws, cannot condone a lifestyle that God himself said very clearly and associated it with adultry, murder (murder?) and stealing under the instituion of Marraige. God talks about the responsibilities of marraige in more than 20 different areas in the Bible. It’s the direction in which our system and it’s laws are changing that I was trying to get out.

        • Denise

          Not if they disagree with the word of God.Paul the apostle said,”I will obey God and preach in the name of Jesus rather than obey man and not preach in the name of Jesus.You seem to think that the 7th Amendment doesn’t apply.Our right to our belief and the free excersize thereof.

        • Smilee

          Denise

          I think you mean the first amendment, not to familiar with the US constitution are you , does that also apply to the Bible? I quoted the words of Christ, is that not the word of God. Why is Paul’s words more meaningful to you than Christ’s, Paul is talking about preaching and please feel free to preach all want but we are not talking about what you or Paul preaches or why, we are talking here about laws that force a persons behavior because you refuse to respect those people who have behaviors you despise . I really wonder how God does feel when he watches and see his gay children are so badly disrespected.

        • Denise

          Respect the law as long as it respects God.If it promotes sexual perversion it isn’t law abiding.

        • Denise

          So if they made a law tomorrow that it’s okay to rape a baby boy would you just agree with it and not fight against it?

        • Smilee

          Respect the law as long as it respects God.If it promotes sexual perversion it isn’t law abiding. Would you break the law then and go to jail if sentenced??

          Denise Reply:
          June 25th, 2009 at 12:50 pm

          So if they made a law tomorrow that it’s okay to rape a baby boy would you just agree with it and not fight against it?

          I will not address such a stupid statement

        • Denise

          Paul the apostle of Jesus was told by rulers to stop preaching in Jesus name.He didn’t obey them.Do you think it’s right for the gays to silence christians(1st&7thAmendment).I had to study the US government and the constitution to pass highschool in 11th grade.A requirement.

        • Denise

          Yes we’re suppose to obey the law unless it goes against God.Paul was told not to preach in Jesus name but he preached in Jesus name fearing God more than man.

        • Denise

          Yes we are to pay tax,but not without representation.

  • Ray

    You can't be a true American, you can't be human. Freedom, freedom, freedom? People"s rights?. Right to murder, rape, spread perverted ungodly adulterate, debauchery to our sons, daughters, children and grandchildren? What land are you from? It is Right, I repeat, It is Right to discriminate against all this sick, debase, perverted evil! Purify and purge this evil from your mind and God given land. You only sicken and weaken a nation to bring these evils on U.S. Why do you think your Muslim brothers and sisters strap on bombs and try to do away with these perverted infidels. You think they want these preversions in their land? Animals know better. What happened with our morals and pure thinking? Hide behind "EqualRights" to practice evil? No. No. You wont be cheated one bit from the bountiful reward you will receive for joining hands with that evil.

    • Peter Melville

      Ray, I think you have to distinguish between christianity as a religion and being in a personal relationship with God. That is to be born again as Jesus says in John Chapter 3. Not everyone who goes to church, gets married, and is a nice guy is a true believer. Nicodemus was a pretty decent guy. christianity as a religion has been responsible for all kinds of horrible things such as the inquisitions.

      • Libertyman

        The old “christians kill people” argument…Chapter 7 -homo play book.

        Interesting you compare murder to sodomy…Hmmmm

        • Peter Melville

          Wrong Libertyman. I am not a homosexual, never have been. I am sorry that America is going the way it is but it has been doing so for 30 years. It may not be convenient for you that it is, but guess what, if you read Revelations, you’ll understand what is happening.

        • Libertyman

          Pete, no truer words were ever spoken. I bow to your wisdom.
          Pardon me for thinking it was another homosexual quoting scripture to prove a point.
          Much like Jesus on the mountain and the temptations.
          I have read Rev. and it’s astonishing to watch scripture play out. but scary.
          “You will have tribulations,but be of good cheer. Jesus already overcame the world.”
          God Bless!

  • http://www.senate.gov/ P M Woods

    Thank GOD for you and your courage – Glen Beck – and may GOD keep you safe and give you the strength to carry on! P. M. Woods

    • John S

      Glen Beck? Oh for Gods sake. Seems I just saw him at a book signing…..Oh that’s right ….he wrote the homo play book. Asked everyone if they wanted him to sign on any particular picture of him. Did nothing but bitch about the lighting and make-up in all those graphic bedroom seen pics.. One lady said Beck you just proved a point. You can put all the lip stick in the world on an (WORD REMOVE FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT), but it’s still an (WORD REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT).

      Wait….that was Beck wasn’t it? Damn, now that I think of it it could well have been LIBERTY MAN. I mean after all, who knows the HOMO PLAY book chapter and verse better than him.

      • Libertyman

        Hey John, BLA, BLA, BLA, More homosexual hate for the good things in the world.
        I know you homo’s all have the play book, so you know what to say tommorow. and you go to your homo propaganda web sites for marching orders.
        none of you have the first orginal thought, hell you get your brains pounded everynite..hahahahahahahaha ho ha hee hee.
        NOw thAT’S hOmO pride.

        I’m tired of you guy’s and your self serving arguments. shut up and go away!!!

        • John S

          “We get our brains ponnded every night” What gets pounded is what’s in your hand right now hand right now.

        • Libertyman

          HeY joHnny you juvenile sick twisted dude—what’s “ponnded” hahahahaha
          LooK here JoNNyboy, Go do what ur going to do and shut the hell up about it….OK…main stream america finds your so called “liFestYLe” disgusting…IF you think your going to finD justification here….sadly your NOT . GO AWay..

        • Peter Melville

          Libertyman,
          Apology accepted. I get it wrong all the time. Is okay. It is hard to see America losing its real purpose to spread the gospel and offer liberty to the oppressed.

  • Ray

    Buddy, just because someone ok's homosexuality, murder, breaking our country etc, does not make it right. Look where this "christianity" has brought this "christian" country. Where our so called "Christian leader" and cabinet can stand up and lie, kill, steal, and destroy in the face of the "christian" world in order to make money off weapons, etc etc etc. Jesus is surely going to have a bit to say in due time, since all these so called "christians" are too weak to open their mouths or do any thing about it. "Just believe brother, just Looove." This weak washed up "Christianity" with all the homosexuality, ungodly, debatestable, debauchery. And these weak so called "christians" with no self-control hideing behind Jesus. " Don't go judging me" Buddy, judge and save your ownselves. What does Almighty God say to do with this evil? "Just love brother, just love". What did Almighty God say to do with this evil? You won't listen even if Jesus or an Angel came and told you. "Equal rights"? "Discrimination"? These God given blessings belong to those that submit to Almighty God, not those that continually practice evil. Wake up, think! Love Almighty God, hate evil.

  • John S

    Ray your rantings drive me crazy, but based on your absolute disgust with equal rights, I have a question for you.

    In Iraq there is a small area (i could be wrong) but I think it is Mosel that has a population of Arab Christians. These people have been there for a long time.

    They have always had the right to worship and adhere to their Christian beliefs and customs in safety even under Sadom. Now we have changed the leadership there these people are constantly harassed and disrupted.

    Muslim factions now in power feel there should no tolerance for Christians, and now the Christian population is under siege.

    Iraq changed from a dictatorship to a democracy thanks to us, but under the new democracy, these people are living in in utter hell because they are christian

    Do YOU think they should have an “equal right” to live and worship how they want? Or, since the majority of the Muslim population sees them as infidels should majority Muslims have a free hand to kill them and or run them out of their city, and banish them to the bare deserts.
    I mean come on, the majority thinks they are disgusting infidels. No equal rights for them.

    • Libertyman

      I reject the premise of your argument. How you can compare two men engauging in anal sex to these saints is just sick and WRONG. but… it’s right out of the homo play book chapter 12.

      What’s next, teaching our children your normal…oh wait your trying to do that now!!

      • Denise

        It used to be corrupting the morals of minors to do this.What’s next,sex with anything you want?

    • Denise

      Muslims who respect christians and their belief can remain in our country.But the extremists can go back to Saudi Arabia,Lebanon,Syria,Dubai,Jordan.

  • Libertyman

    Oh!!! the old ‘”dying fag” argument… Chapter 5-homo play book.

  • poet

    The world is not divided into sheeps and goats. Not all things are black nor all things white. It is a fundamental of taxonomy that nature rarely deals with discrete categories. Only the human mind invents categories and tries to force facts into separated pigeon-holes. The living world is a continuum in each and every one of its aspects. The sooner we learn this concerning sexual behavior the sooner we shall reach a sound understanding of the realities of sex. ~Alfred Kinsey, Sexual Behavior in the Human Male, 1948

    • Libertyman

      Absolute sychobabble.

  • poet

    Thomas Paine: “Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.”

    • Libertyman

      Whats cruel is to justify homo marrige. marrige is a religous function, always has been. a union recognized by God. Is that what the homo community wants????

      Yes it is. well society rejects that and you….IT’S just that simple.

      Keep your civil unions and shut the hell up—thank you

      • poet

        Libertyman
        I’ve been married to the same woman for 40 years. It’s not about me.
        Do you talk to God or maybe you just know more.

        • Libertyman

          poet…what’s your point …I read your posts and what are you trying to say. Congrats on your 40 yrs. That’s unusual in todays anything goes society. God Bless you.

        • poet

          But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.
          -Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782

          From the time I was a kid, I have never been able to understand attacks upon the gay community. There are so many qualities that make up a human being… by the time I get through with all the things that I really admire about people, what they do with their private parts is probably so low on the list that it is irrelevant.”
          Paul Newman quote

  • Robin from Indiana

    Rodin your comment…. ‘And please do get and education and perform some rudimentary research’.
    Hey, I am never to old to learn. I was posing the question to you rhetorically. I know it was God who initiated the covenant of marriage. And He did so between Adam and Eve.
    I am not uneducated. I do know that correct English would be ‘an education’ as opposed to your comment, ‘and education’.
    You sound narcissistic. You have no tolerance for anyone’s comments, regardless if they are well thought out and articulated in such a way as to not be threatening. As a Christian, I try very hard not to offend. I only take that approach when someone offends me. I guess that makes me human.
    I do not agree with the homosexual lifestyle. I also do not agree with marriages where one partner takes a lover outside of marriage. My list could go on and on. I shouldn’t have to list 50 things to make my point. Nor do I have to be rude and offensive.
    God’s Word is my standard. I didn’t create the standard, He did. Any issues you have with my beliefs you will have to take up with Him. The day is coming when that will happen. Every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. You can believe that! Everyone, including you will be a part of that spectacular moment in eternity.

    • rodin

      Robin, I have never said that I am in favor of forcing churches to perform or sanctify marriages if it runs counter to their beliefs. Catholics don’t like to let divorced people remarry and there’s a whole lot of other Christian churches that don’t want to sanctify the bonds of love between two women or two men. That’s fine for the Churches… they can do whatever they like…. I have no bones with your religion or your practices unless you start doing things like marrying off 13 year old girls to decrepit old men.

      So what I’m not forcing the churches to marry gay couples, then what am I arguing for? Hmmmm. How about the STATE. What I want to see are secular rights of gay couples made equal to those of straight couples. Regardless of whether you believe in their lifestyle or not, they still have rights.

      Now maybe you believe that a non-Christian should not have rights in our society or that a moral transgressor should not be treated the same as your neighbor (assuming your neighbor is not the moral transgressor), but in a civilized society, we need to recognize and respect our differences and have a basic set of human rights that everyone is accorded. Respect first.

      You can have your standard and live your life according to what you believe in. Just please please keep it between you and your god and don’t try to spread the hatred and bigotry to the rest of society. As for me and my God, she and I have an excellent relationship.

      • Denise

        God is love.It’s like a child being corrected if he sets a forest on fire.He gets reprimanded.God is reprimanding you in Leviticus18:22,1Romans18-32,1Corinthians6.You are a child because you refuse to listen to God and Jesus.Jesus said,”I and my Father,God,are one and the same.”That means Jesus agrees with God’s wordin the Old and New Testament.He said,”I have come to fulfill the scriptures not do away with them.”

      • Denise

        You can’t respect sexual perversion or witchcraft or anything God hates.God said,”Pagan beliefs will be thorns in your eyes.”God knows better what we need.We’d better listen to God before we’re destroyed.

    • Denise

      God Bless you!!!!

  • Robin from Indiana

    Rodin…
    I wasn’t given a reply to your last comment to me (under #20).
    You said, ‘Robin – please please please get educated before you speak again.’ What puts you in the position of telling me to get educated? All of the hateful and obnoxious things you have written, doesn’t make you better than me.
    At least my values and morals top everything you have said on this blog. Once again I will say, my standard is God’s standard. Where did you get yours?

    • rodin

      Because your lack of an education is showing through. Most of your comments are ignorant from the standpoint of understanding history, social structures and politics. You appear to believe that the ayatollahs can run this country and have no respect for the secular institutions we set up to protect your rights to believe in what you want while at the same time live peacefully next to a neighbor that may have completely different beliefs. It’s the set of secular rules we generally call rights and freedoms which allow this.

      Your values and morals are just that – YOURS- and you’re free to hold on to them, as long as you recognize that the secular rights need to be above them on this earth. Otherwise we get priests telling us that we can’t marry someone of a different caste or race. We get mullahs telling us to kill infidels, we get popes wanting to take back the holy lands, we get Inquisitors killing all the Jews and women, we get the puritans hunting the witches…. the list goes on and on and on. In order for people of different faiths to live together, or even a single faith to live without being subject to a religious tyranny, we need a set of secular rules which overarch our individual beliefs. This allows you to practice your own faith while at the same time riding the same bus sitting next to a lesbian or colored person or Muslim. It comes down to respect and basic human rights.

      If your god lets you disrespect others to the extent of excluding them from society or holding away rights and freedoms from them, then that is between you and your god. You two can talk about it when you meet. However, your actions on this earth are subject to secular laws, and these exist so that we all can live peacefully together.

      • Denise

        If God burns up and floods every crop and the land becomes barren,then you might figure it out.

  • American Citizen

    I did not say I agree with everything Rush says. But his analysis of government policies are usually right on. He does tend to run on at times about things but he has a 99% rating on what he says is the truth. I don’t mean his opinions on some things that don’t affect us, but on what the government wants to do to us. This Obama administration scares the bejeesus out of me. I fear for our children and grandchildren. Their quality of life is going to go down which is opposite of every other generation.

    Furthermore, addiction to prescription drugs is no laughing matter. He admitted it and had to go through rehab. Also, his comment about white people getting away with doing drugs is also right on. There would be no problem with illegal drugs if people wouldn’t use them. Look at the people who die every day because of them, the users and the sellers both as well as innocent bystanders.

    • poet

      Rush is a VERY well paid entertainer. He laughs all the way to the bank. He openly calls his listeners DITTOHEADS as in sheep.
      Rush makes no bones about being a bussiness man first, and tries to be as controverial as possible. People love him and people hate him. Most importantly people listen to him and keep his ratings high.
      He’s very clever and well informed. Take him with a grain of salt. The Messiah he ain’t.

      • American Citizen

        I know he calls himself an entertainer, but he is also a political analyst. He can see the results of different pieces of legislation if it is put through. He reaches the same conclusions as do most of us who have any intelligence. He is just a voice for conservatives. As he said, he has no power to affect your taxes, or any other aspect of your lives as do those in positions of power in Washington.
        Calling us “dittoheads” is just a term of endearment. I hear people call in all the time who are conservative and don’t agree with something he said. And he always puts Dems and Libs at the head of the line to take their calls. I have never been able to get through on the phone, so I send him an e-mail once in a while, especially if he says something with which I don’t agree.

    • Smilee

      American Citizen you say:

      “This Obama administration scares the bejeesus out of me.”

      Why??? We all see things differently don’t we, I see Obama as the best administration that has happened to this country in my lifetime, (I’m a senior citizen who has voted for every president since I was old enough and my first vote was for Barry Goldwater) he seems to be able to understand diversity better that any before him and this country is now more diverse that any time in the past and someone who understands this will better guide and lead us as a nation in coming to terms with that issue. Those in our country who do not like diversity will of course not like him. Conservative talk radio spends hours daily trying to reinforce this dislike by promoting their biases and hatred for him and the ditto heads will repeat again and again these words and concepts in hopes that Obama will fail and those they are opposed to these having the same rights they do and repress the rights of those they despise for one reason or another.

      • Denise

        Signing tax money to murder the unborn Mexican babies is just okay ,HUH?

        • Smilee

          There you go again, spinning the words of those you respond to, you again spun mine,I did not address that issue and it is clear that you missed my whole point. Please reread and try and use an open mind so you will know what I said and not what you want to twist my words to mean so it fits your agenda.

        • libertyman

          SMMMILLLEE you are damaged goods….where did you get all that hate from…..never mind (retorical question.) I hope you get better someday… Don’t bother responding… the bottom line is your wrong…there is no middle ground… even though your ilk is trying to force it on a moral, good world and destroy the basic tennants that made us great.
          Also history shows the rise of homosexuality in a society before it’s destruction.. LOOK IT UP.
          thanks for the milestone. I do wonder what it’s like to hate everything except a sex act. it’s scary…are you posessed or something. I got to say I don’t get it…… and hope I never do.

      • Smilee

        Libertyman Reply:
        June 25th, 2009 at 12:16 pm

        SMMMILLLEE you are damaged goods….where did you get all that hate from…..never mind (retorical question.) I hope you get better someday… Don’t bother responding… the bottom line is your wrong…there is no middle ground… even though your ilk is trying to force it on a moral, good world and destroy the basic tennants that made us great.
        Also history shows the rise of homosexuality in a society before it’s destruction.. LOOK IT UP.
        thanks for the milestone. I do wonder what it’s like to hate everything except a sex act. it’s scary…are you posessed or something. I got to say I don’t get it…… and hope I neverVDO.

        Oh but I will respond, you will not have the luxury of defining me. You are so closed minded that you could not possibly know me or anyone here therefore you are incapable of defining anyone. You can’t respond intelligently to my posts. The only thing you say that is probably accurate is “I don’t get it……” you certainly don’t sir. Not that I think you care but I am very fine, thank you.

        • Denise

          The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom!

        • libertyman

          soooo hear we go again with the homo play book. CLOSE MINDED hahahahaah….. it just gets old. I love this wounded homo act (chap 11.) you are such a homo bot spewing your talking points….. WE HEARD IT and we are over it and your choice. ..so be a nice little homo and go back in the closet….when you go to your homo meeting this month tell them… you homo’s need a new message. the old one is worn out…
          Homosexuality is a mental disorder-Dr. Freud…yeah but he was a (WORD REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT)

        • Smilee

          libertyman Reply:
          July 1st, 2009 at 9:14 pml

          libertyman

          Apparently you chose not to answer the post I pasted below I have not read or seen your homo bible so I cannot comment on it. My previous post also answers this post of yours. I have drawn my opinion by having an open mind and reading the constitution and trying to understand all sides to this issue. I doubt you will believe this but I a totally heterosexual. You may think you know it all but you don’t, your words make that crystal clear.

          Reply:
          June 28th, 2009 at 12:31 am

          MY REPY TO:

          libertyman Reply:
          June 25th, 2009 at 5:31 pm

          NO sMMIllee. your reaccuring theme is to invoke the name of God to stop opposition to your sex acts….very clever..but it’s right out of the homo play book chap 4…most homo’s won’t use chap 4. but you have no fear of God do you??? you put sex above it all…what a barren life you have…..but your not the first to make that choice and won’t be the last….. unfortunately. we are all sinners but not you, RIGHT ssmmmIIilllleeee.

          WRONG, WRONG, I am a sinner and as Christ was the only man on earth without sin I am flattered that you would conclude that I am without sin and thus equate me to Christ on that basis but you are dead wrong and I think it demonstrates your lack of knowledge of the Bible. The homo playbook, I’ve never seen of heard of it but from this and many of your other posts here it is clear it is like a bible to you and you quote it like it is gospel. It’s also clear that it must not have been written by a gay person as I cannot conceive a person with your beliefs would quote so freely from it if it was. My guess its probably written by someone without the background or knowledge to do so as and probably has an biased agenda similar to yours. Being I have not ever seen it much less read it my posts in no way are a reflection of what you allege and my statements reflect only my own beliefs. I can assure you you know knowing of my sexual activities and I I am amused that you would make such a ridiculously stupid statement which says more about your character than than it does about my sex life. I love God. and have no doubt He is completely OK with me and my sex life. I have a very fulfilling and rewarding life and that is the reason why, I also find your name “libertyman” a joke , your post here and the other posts of yours I have read brings me to the conclusion that you care nothing of the liberty of those you dislike or despise and selfishly care only of your own and would exercise that power over those you despise if you had it. I thank God you do not.

      • American Citizen

        Smilee, the present Admininstration scares me and it has nothing to do with diversity. I honestly think Obama is a Muslim at heart. He was raised as one. He is trying to take this country in a direction that will be an America we will not recognize. Our children and grandchildren will be paying for it, not just monetarily, but with the loss of freedoms. When the government is in control of each aspect of our lives, our Constitution will not be worth the paper it’s printed on. If you don’t see the arrogance and narcissism that is in Obama, then you are not a good judge of character. It’s the Liberals and Democrats who are blindly following him as they see him as a Messiah. Beware of smooth talkers.

        • Denise

          Right now the ACLU uses our tax money to oppress christians,the Democrats are trying to pass S909(hate bill)and the “Thought Control Bill”thanks to Ted Kennedy.Then christians won’t be able to speak freely against the gay agenda.We’ll be jailed for speaking God’s truth.Gee,that’s real constitutional of them.

        • Smilee

          Obama was raised as a Christian his dad was a non practicing Muslim but left them when he was two He saw him for a short time when he was 10 and not again, he was killed in a car accident when Obama was a young man. His mother and grandparents raised him as a Christian. You thinking different does not make it so, could it be that believing that makes it easier for you to hate him? I think the rest you think about him is pure fiction but you want so badly to believe it because of your dislike of him. There is no evidence of what you say and because you did not present any I suspect you have none as none exists.

          The only ones that say they see him as a messiah are Sean Hannity, Rush and their sidekicks apparently you bought into this BS. I know of noone you refer to as liberals who think so and I ‘m sure I know a lot more of them than you do. As far a judge of character, how would you know, being as far off base you are in your judgment. If you can believe he is Muslin absent any evidence how could you possibly judge anyone’s character. You sure come off as a phoney to me.

        • Smilee

          Denise I’ll bet your afraid of your own shadow too. What a bunch of fiction and the sad part is I fear you believe it. I feel sorry for you.

        • Denise

          I didn’t vote for Obama.He’s not a citizen and should be impeached for that.Even his paternal grandmother said he was born in Kenya.

  • Kim McGough

    Well folks, hate is wrong and will never resolve this kind of issue, neither will the government. This kind is a personal issue. I feel that even though the gay life style is wrong and considered a sin, that there is nothing wrong in allowing them the same contractual benifits that are found in marriage, for tax purposes and such. But to call it a marriage is wrong, but then that is my opinion. God will never bless this kind of relationship, but then they don’t want to be blessed in that way, just by secular law. And according to prophecy it has to go this way to fulfill all that is to come to pass. As much as we the christains would like to see them saved and brought into God’s fold, they do not have the sight or hearing to make it. Some where down the road of life it could happen, because God’s word will not come back void, it does what God sent it to do, so all that has been said will be productive some where some time. God bless all of you, even the gays!

    • rodin

      And god bless you too Kim…. We’ll respect your right to believe in the teachings you want and we’ll both live respectfully side by side.

      • libertyman

        NO you WON”T…. YOU’LL keep trying to convince everyone you’re normal …you’ll never be happy. because you know deep down you ARE living a lie….wait for it………THERE it is…but you just keep go ahead it:::: suppress it….. no mental health issues there……
        Leave us alone… STOP forcing the issue on us. but you won’t
        Enjoy your LIE.

    • Denise

      Hate is murder in God’s eyes.But God doesn’t support perverted sex acts.That’s what the homosexual lifestyle is.I love my enemy but I don’t condone their sin.

  • JohnJay60

    There is a lot of noise in this comments section.

    Let’s get back to fundamentals. Jesus himself forbids divorce (Matthew 19:8), as does the Catholic Church.

    Should Christians actively seek to support politicians who advocate making divorce illegal, and actively oppose politicians who want free adults to make their own choice?

    Now let’s ask the same question about gay marriage, which is also forbidden by the Bible. Do you have the same answer to the “should Christians actively support…” on gay marriage as you do on divorce? If yes, you are consistent. If no, why not?

    • libertyman

      How refreshing!!!… a specious, meaningless argument right out of the homo play book and talking points.
      What your talking about in your secular humanistic way is SIN. But you have the appearance of logic and the heart of deceit.
      GOOD TRY (NOT)
      HOMO play book chap 6 a(1) make a stupid argument see if somebody buy’s it, then argue. your goal is to win the argument.. then this will prove everything you say is right..
      EXCEPT for one thing, I REJECT the premise of your argument. so NO argument………. yOu lose and homo is still wrong.
      silly joNJay.. geez even your name is homo..did mommy make you a homo jOnny

    • Denise

      Where do you get the idea that Jesus said he was against divorce.He clearly states that if an unbelieving spouse leaves the believing spouse isn’t bound to the marriage.

    • Denise

      I don’t support gay marriage.Why?God shows us in the Old Testament what happened to Sodom and Gomorrah because their sin of homosexuality cried out to heaven.God burnt them up.Even the land in present day can’t grow anything.That’s what will happen to America if the gay agenda keeps going.God is merciful but God has limits too.

  • David Hall

    AMERICA, AMERICA, ONLY IN AMERICA!! where your Free to pass laws for abortion, gay rights, phornography, drugs and alcohol legal, take pray and discipline
    out of schools, colleges, public events,(that is in the name of Jesus prays). Laws that
    slap the hands of rapists and child molesters and call it justice, sexually perverted
    advertisements on T. V.,sit-up organizations that steal elections and millions of dollars, and are government funded by the American Tax-Payer (Acorn) one of them.
    Point is, they use the Freedom of our Constitution, for the freedom to sin and pass
    laws to sin. The fault lies on us (the so-called Christians). This used to be a Christain
    Nation, and for those who think it is now, what a joke!! We will soon be totally government run and are already OWNED by a communist nation called China. That’s
    a fact.

    • Salmon

      A comment which makes sense. No name calling, cussing or skewed data! Mostly on point. Folks are in for a rude awakening!

  • Gregory

    I have been to Asia,and although the Gay lifestyle exist there as everywhere else. I do not know of any of them supporting marraige amoung Gays. This kind of marraige is an abomination to what mankind is all about. In acient times Gays were stoned,so why was that done if being Gay was a proper life style? We can not and should not give to such behavior. It is an attack on the moral fiber of mankind. So what are we afraid of? We need to stop giving in to this idea of “Politically Correct”,it is a ruse to further ruin our country.

    As for rape and other related crimes,there is only one penalty,(DEATH)I am not sugesting that we do that,but the idea is if you are going to put someone in prison then let’s do it.

    Also in the Philippines,if a woman has lied about having been raped then she gets a jail sentence as well. Sometimes a woman will cry rape and the man is ostracised for the rest of his life. This would go a long way to help aleaviate that. Some one who is guilty deserves to pay the price,but they should not have to suffer when they are in fact not guilty. So what do you say,why not penalize the one who cries rape too?

  • Denise

    I’m not slandering you but you slander christians by calling them fascists and ayatollahs!

    • rodin

      Not slandering… merely calling you what you are. You would impose your morality on those with different beliefs that do you no harm. How is that not fascism? And the Ayatollahs, they believe what you do, that the secular law should be determined by the church leaders.

      Again I ask – how is that different than you imagine?

      • Denise

        You are slandering!You are going to answer to God and Jesus.As one person said,”Father forgive them for they know not what they do.”Read 1Romans18-32.Then try to argue with God,you’ll lose big time.

        • John S

          Boy It sure is east to pick out the Limbaugh Lemmings on this thread.

          Like shooting fish in a barrel.

          Just one request to the Chicken Fried Ditto-heads.

          I can hear your teeth clicking when speak your words insanity.

          Then, there are the other ones who have that annoying whistle when they pronounce (S’s) and (C’s)

          I bet that could be fixed if, when you retrieve your teeth from the soaking jar you’d take a channel lock and bend some of the front ones either back a little or forward a little.

          Now for the disgusting clicking sound.

          Napa Auto parts sells an aerosol spray that puts a rubber coating on tools to keep them from rusting. I’ll bet a little shot of that on the back biters would keep that Morris Code sound to a minimum, especially when you are quoteing those Bible verses.

          Now I really don’t expect that to inject much common sense in your out look on life, I’m sure it will be as “SOUR” as ever, but…………..Oh it just dawned on me,… that spray for your teeth I recommended is called LEMMINGS AID.

          Tune to Rush Limbaugh tomorrow, for the DITTO HEAD update.

          He is offering a coupon for 10% off the tall can of LEMMINGS AID when you buy 3 cans of cat food.

        • libertyman

          As “rOd in” imposes homo on the world—— homo play book chap 7
          And “john s” attacks,attacks,attacks———homo play book chap11

          Same old HATE different chapter….SOOOO typical. give it up

          (BTW HUSH LIMBOT IS homo neutral) but i’m sure you never listened to him. BUT it doesn’t stop you from talking out of ignorance…kind of like your homo arguments….it’s getting old guys

      • Denise

        We aren’t bigots but you are.You wish everyone to accept your evil sex life as okay.It’s not normal.Get the point.If all that existed was homosexuals there’d be no one because it takes a husband and wife to have children.Not two men having sex or two women having sex.

        • Smilee

          I have not seen anyone here say anything about accepting your sex life, it is you that keeps trying to tell others what their sex life should be, so why is it you want to interfere in other peoples sex lives. You need sex for procreation but not procreation for sex.

        • libertyman

          homo psychobabble—index, homo play book

      • Denise

        You seem to have a brain block.It’s God who will send out the angels and throw all who offend or do evil into the lake of fire.Get it.If you think God is a bigot you are blind.

        • St John the Baptist

          Denise, I feel your pain. What the world needs now is love. Relax… nobody’s going to hell…… we can all feel the lightness if we rid ourselves of the sins of righteousness.

      • Denise

        You’re the only bigot.You will go to hell if you refuse to turn away from being homosexual.

        • rodin

          So you’ve just changed the definition of bigotry to include being a homosexual. Regardless of whether I am gay or not, it’s none of your business what heaven I go to. I called you a bigot because you want to discriminate against an identifiable group of people. I don’t discriminate.

        • 13th Gen. American

          Denise, Roden and John are the tag team gays for straight blogs. I do think they get paid to do it. How else could they have the time to reply to so many people. Dont waste your breath. They have a hand book with what to say and words to type bold and big words to use. It has in it few facts to use but it is just all excuses and justifications. All hate spewed leftie lib blablabla. Check out this site below.. Samesamesame. Roden might be pretty decent just doing what she thinks is right but john there is certified sicko.
          Here is the blog you can cut and paste their things on both to save time. Oh and to Roden. Jesus Loves you.
          http://www.personalliberty.com/news/supreme-court-upholds-law-on-gays-in-military-19215580/

      • Denise

        First I don’t imagine that being homosexual is okay with God.I know what Leviticus18:22 states.Want to call God a bigot for stating the truth.

        • St John the Baptist

          Denise, you are sounding far too hateful. The message is LOVE. Let your Father worry about men’s souls. Preaching your hatred only serves to divide.

      • Denise

        I see when we state the truth in God’s word then it’s bigotry.But when you call us bigots and fascists and ayatollahs that’s not hate speech,huh?

        • rodin

          The problem is that you seek to justify hatred and bigotry and hurting by using your god’s name. Thats been a pretty common theme throughout history. Everytime the Christo-fascists want something they say that its gods will or that god wants it that way and they justify murder, genocide, war, conquest, discrimination and a whole host of other evil. Your friend that killed the doctor used a similar argument and a whole host ofgood Christiansargued that he was doing gods work in saving a lot of unborn children. Your good christians supported murder.

          I can live with the vast majority of Christians, they respect my right to live my life, and I respect their right to live theirs. You on the other hand have no respect for anybody that doesnt live according to your understanding of god. Grow up and realize that other people have as much right to be on this planet as you do. You have way too much hate and you justify it by saying its because god wants you to hate. Great religion you have.

        • St John the Baptist

          Denise

          Rodin is trying to live according to Jesus’ teachings of loving his/her neighbor. Please stop your spewing. Love from Jesus is more important than any of the Old Testament words. They were useful until the world needed more love. Your father’s son came down to show the world that love was all that mattered. Trust me…. your heart will be lighter when you accept Rodin joyously and completely.

        • Peter Melville

          Exactly the point, Denise, if all accepted God’s word, the Bible as the authority for our lives, we would not have this mess. There would be healing and love and concern for each other. Telling the truth is not hate speech because it is the only thing that can set us free.

      • Denise

        No harm?I see breaking a pastors windows in his house for preaching the gospel is okay?Calling on the phone to say what deviant sex acts they’ll preform on their children is okay?

      • Denise

        It isn’t my morality,it’s God’s.Want to argue with Almighty God?You’ll lose!

      • Denise

        WE are neither fascists or iyatollahs.You misunderstand someone warning you to repent and come to a Saviour who can spare your soul and body from hellfire.

  • Denise

    Go Rodin and get some help.You are the only one bashing anyone.

    • rodin

      I’m not bashing- you have the right to live your life and follow your own morals. Why you want to infringe upon my right to do the same, I don’t know.

      • Denise

        I’m noy infringing on your rights.You are infringing on my rights when you tell me I can’t speak God’s word.My 7th and 1st Amendment rights!I will pray for you.I don’t hate any body.God has the final say so.Anyone who claims God or Jesus and goes against the word in the Bible is a liar.God is love but God doesn’t condone homosexuality.If you have a problem with that,take it up with God!

        • libertyman

          Denise…Your dealing with ignorant deceit w/ rodin and the john’s (boy that’s funny “the johns” hehe)
          All you can do is hope they don’t get some kinda sex disease and cause our insurance rates to go up..
          Science has proven, homo’s die early. sooo the problem will take care of itself

      • Denise

        Trying to promote a lie that two men and two women can be Mommy and Daddy is a big,fat lie!

      • Denise

        Because AIDS/HIV spreads sickness to others in this country and other countries.

  • http://donthaveone Mark

    To rodin: If she were a turtle, then my friend, Id be in the same boat as you are, having to find some kind of a answer as to why I am doing what I am doing, but no matter what Id come up with, it would fall short of convincing God is was right.

    • rodin

      I’m sure it would. She’d be awfully slow too.

      • http://donthaveone Mark

        Really slow my man.

      • Denise

        You can’t be slow in the US Army fixing searchlights,microwave,mindetecters,wireequipment,CVC helmets,and other wire equipment.You run alot too!

      • Denise

        It says in the Bible that God has made some people vessels of wrath.Made to be destroyed by God.So perhaps that’s your end Rodin.I’d like to think you would accept Jesus as your Lord and Saviour and turn from homosexuality.Then you would be able to live in freedom and know that when you die you would be welcome into paradise.

    • Denise

      I see you pick a turtle,one of God’s creations.At least they aren’t stupid enough to listen to the devil and say their gay!

  • Denise

    Rodin,get a life.You really are redundent.God help you to see the light like what happened to Saul who became Paul.

  • 13th Gen. American

    Warning: They Are Now Becoming Violent by Perry Stone

    In the days of Lot, the young and old men had given themselves over to very vile sexual perversions. This is why the name of the city was called “Sodom.” The Bible tells us that Lot was “vexed daily with the filthy conversation of the wicked” (2 Peter 2:7). We are told in the book of Jasher that there were four judges in the five cities mentioned in Genesis 14:1-2. The judges passed laws that beds could be placed in the streets so strangers entering the city could be laid in the beds and sexual acts could be preformed on them (Jasher 19:3). Thus it was the judges who voted for organized perversion to be allowed in the cities. It doesn’t end there.

    When the two men (angels) entered the city, Lot met them at the gate and demanded they stay in his house. At night, the men wanted to go outside and check out the city and Lot told them not to. It was too dangerous. Suddenly, the old and young men came to Lot’s door and wanted the two strangers to “know” which means have sexual relations with them (Gen.19:5). When Lot refused, he shut his door and the man almost broke the door down, burning with their lusts to have these two men! It took a supernatural act of God (blindness) to prevent the rape of two men!

    Here is the point. When the men of Sodom became violent against the righteous, the following day Lot escaped and the fire fell on Sodom, making this famous city a pile of ashes. Recently in California, the people voted down gay marriage, saying that they believe it should be between a man and a woman. Immediately, the gays began marching, then protesting in front of churches and then in some areas began entering churches, screaming, threatening and throwing bulletins. One older woman in a march for marriage was confronted by gay men, who began shoving her, causing her cross to fall to the ground, where it was stomped on.

    I was very disturbed to hear what just occurred in San Francisco. Two women were on the street praying in the gay district. Suddenly they were noticed and hundreds of gay activists rushed on them, throwing a blanket over their heads, taking the Bible and hitting them on the head, and threatening to kill them. As they began to sing Amazing Grace, the gay group began singing “We shall overcome.” Eventually the police were called and told the women to leave because their lives were in danger. As I read this article on World Net Daily, I began to realize that God did not send judgment to Sodom until they became violent against the righteous!

    It is either a sign or a strange “coincidence” that when the courts in California passed the gay marriage act in May of 2008, immediately lightning began striking all around the Bay area. In a few weeks there were 8,000 fires burning throughout the state. After the vote in November that banned gay marriage and the protestors began to march, fires began to burn down the homes of many wealthy individuals in California.

    Remember, the judgment that came against Sodom was a judgment of fire. Josephus wrote about it when he said;

    “Two daughters still virgins…for those that were betrothed (engaged) to them
    were above the thoughts of going and deemed that Lot’s words were trifling. God then cast a thunderbolt upon the which and set it one fire with its inhabitants and laid wastethe country…” – Josephus: Antiquities Bk.1; Ch.11

    Notice the word “thunderbolt.” Did massive lightning set the city on fire? Whatever occurred, it happened after the Sodomites became violent and threatened the righteous. In the New Testament there is a strong warning about any nation that follows the same patterns of Sodom:

    “As Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.” - Jude 7

    “And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly.”

    - 2 Peter 2:6

    We have already seen the devastation of two American cities on the coasts: New Orleans and Galveston, Texas. Do your own research, and discover the hidden clue as to what may have (and probably did) remove the protective hedge from this area. It is sad, because it “rains on the just and the unjust,” and just as Lot lost his home and had to relocate, many good people have had to relocate from these cities. However, God does take care of those who will follow him, despite times of great difficulty.

    We are in a season where we will see selective judgment. Is the economic crisis a sign of the removing of America’s golden calf? Time will tell! It is time to preach the truth and stand with the Word!

    ©2008 – 2009 Perry Stone Ministries — Site Design by WinWorld

    • libertyman

      Amen General…but doesn’t the Bible also talk of “throwing pearls before swine” and what ever happened to that city.. I think you have alot of swine here. All you can do is pray for their misguided souls..I will.

      • 13th Gen. American

        Hey dude. Thanks for the “General” But gen. means generation. My cuz is a general and I dont want to take credit away, even anonymously from any of our men. I have been praying. A lot. Which reminds me. Jesus loves you Roden.

        • libertyman

          I stand corrected. and I was in the military.
          It’s scary to watch revelations play out before my eyes. I pray I have the courage to stay strong.
          but it’s tough when you read sick twisted rationalizations for sin but I guess this is our cross to bear.
          Here’s hope, “You will have tribulations, but be of good cheer, Jesus already overcame the world”

      • 13th gen. American

        Thanks for your service. I have a lot of family in there and a son-inlaw in iraq now. I listed some on the gays in military only so people know I might not have gone but I know enough family to know where as I speak. It ois sad to see all this. I like it here for as (WORD REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT) as it can get. Ill be spending time with my kid and go on some vacations and enjoy the time we have left. I pray you are so blessed and all of you here that keep the faith. And to Roden. Jesus loves you.

        • Denise

          It used to be that gay men and women would lie about their homosexuality to get into the military.Now they are telling the truth about their preference.It is a preference.I just hope they don’t assault anyone sexually in the service.Yes,I know heterosexuals are just as capable of doing this too.I was in the Army and encountered heterosexual married men who hit on me.I put them in their place by telling them I would report them to the First SGT.I suppose because of sexual harassment that that is why the military wouldn’t allow gays.I know I would have issues with giving mouth to mouth and being near bodily fluids of gays.I might catch the HIV/AIDS.Yes that is a legitmate concern.

  • Roy

    On GOP and gay marriage – doesn’t even nature itself teach us that it is wrong for man to lie with man? That is so clear! The GOP needs to take a stand for what is right. I have been a memeber of the GOP for 39 years but I am really thinking of going Independent just because GOP is too liberal and will not stand up for what is right. Come on GOP! Lets get back to the values of our founding fathers.

    • Denise

      I agree completely.God Bless you!

  • Denise

    To St.John the Baptist,You seem to think it’s okay to let someone go to hell and not do what Jesus said,”Preach the gospel to all the world.”That means I have a right to warn Rodin and anyone about accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour and turn away from homosexuality or any other sin.That’s love!If you argue with the word of God you will lose.That means the Old and New Testament.

    • Smilee

      You can do nothing to prevent anyone from going to hell, yes I too believe we should witness the gospel but just witness it, we were not called by Christ to be God’s juries, judges or executioners and discriminating against anyone for any reason is not likely to be pervasive in getting anyone turned on to Christ it probably it will drive them further away from him. To witness to anyone you need to first respect them just as they are. Calling down fire and brimstone on anyone if they will not do as you wish will defeat your purpose.

      • http://donthaveone Mark

        Very true. But whether we get chastized or abused for it or not, we sometimes need to say what people dont want to hear and they will turn on us for speaking the truth. I dont believe in hating on anyone, but I believe in spreading the truth. I am a white guy, and if I see the Ku Klux Klan professing their hate of black people, sorry, Im going to speak up and tell them they are wrong and full of hate. Does that mean Im hating on them – No. Im speaking the truth. If I see gays and tell them God’s word say’s it is an abomination to the Lord for a man to lay with another man as he would a woman, does that mean Im hating on them – No. I am speaking the truth. This is Gods word, and Ill stand by it even if it is unpopular. It has nothing to do with my opinion in either of the above instances. It is wrong to hate someone because of their skin color, because of what they look like, because of who they are or how they dress, or any of it. But it is also wrong to see someone doing something wrong, and not to speak out against it. God calls us to love one another, whites, blacks, asians, hispanics, it doesnt matter. He also calls for the union of man and woman, and refers to same sex behavior as having been “defiled and demented” in their heads. As an abomination to Him. As”being given over to their sexual immorality”. It doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure it out. So yeah, Im saying it, being gay is wrong, perverted and immoral. Does it mean I go out and strike down gays? No, hell no. Rather, I pray that God would bring His light into their world soon, that they may know the blessings he has for them. That is love. But as for me, they pretty much would rather strike me down dead. I tolerate them and pray for them, and would even defend them against someone raising their hand upon them, yet they would just as soon strike me down and silence me, and do away with me and my kind. There is no tolerance there. So I have to ask, who is the real haters? Actions speak louder than words.

        • Denise

          Gays beating up old ladies carrying crosses.Gee is that hate/assault?

        • Smilee

          MARK

          I have no quarrel with your words and I agree with many, as I said you should witness to anyone God inspires you too, and your right, actions do speak louder than words and it is your actions I oppose for that is the real hate and the pain it inflicts on those you despise. Your proposed actions not your words bring me to that conclusion.

        • http://donthaveone Mark

          Smiley, my actions as stated would be to defend a gay if someone was trying to beat on them because of what they are, so why do you say my actions you oppose? If they march, I dont go out and confront them, I give them their space to do what they want. I do not oppress them. I do recognize the wrong in what they do in following Gods word, according to Gods word, not my word, not my opinion, but what God said about it. You want to box with Him you go ahead, Im not going to. But dont say my actions hate, because they dont, and no where in here do they. I would defend a gay getting hated on in the same way I would defend a woman getting hated on, or a black getting hated on, or a Christian getting hated on, or a muslim getting hated on, if they were getting hated on for what they are or what they look like. But no, I wont defend their lifestyle because I dont agree with it. But condemning it isnt my job either. Dude, my ex brother in law was gay. Ive probably spent more time in close quarters with gay people than 90 percent of the population, and Ive never felt uneasy about it, or about them. Ive accepted them as my fellow human being, despite the fact that they and I have a different out look and opinions on life. But I am a Christian, and no I cannot accept their lifestyle. That does not mean Im a hater. I give them the same respect I give my own brothers and sisters, or anyone on the street. But I will tell you this, because I am a Christian, I am not given the same respect by most in the gay community, as they look on me as their enemy, which I am not. Actually, truth be told, Im probably their best friend but they wont accept me for what I am. Kind of screwed up deal if you ask me, that I can be kind and outgoing and accepting, but I dont get that returned to me. But like Ive said in other posts, its socially acceptable to hate on the Christian. But unlike others, I dont need to hate back. Understand that.

        • libertyman

          The old “HOMO”S get beat up argument” chap 6 homo play book.
          life is tough dude, stay in the gay bar with your own kind and avoid the crazies in the world.
          I’m white and there is neighborhoods i wouldn’t walk thru.
          But you don’t hear us normals whinning like you guys.
          MARK QUOTE “I don’t need to hate.” NO but you need to ram your apostate life down our throats. and if we complain you break out the homo play book and come up with some stupid argument Like the whole “homophobe” thing. actually you guys got some mileage with that one. it was brillant. so here’s the bottom line marky…homo is wrong and 99% of us normals believe that…
          SOOO DEAL WITH IT. and shut up and go away.

        • libertyman

          Sorry… not MARK…smilee

      • http://donthaveone Mark

        Also Smiley my man, you are correct about the fire and brimstone stuff. It doesnt work, rather it chases people away from Christianity. A few years back when on vacation, I looked up a local church to go to when Sunday came, and allthough here I attend the Missionary church, I went to this Baptist church in Tennessee, and I was appalled at what I heard. This pastor was yelling at people that they were going to burn in hell if they didnt come up to the alter right now, and I thought “what is this guy doing”. If I were a person on the edge of belief, or a non-believer, Id never step foot in a church again. No, the Gospel is to be administerred in love, plain and simple. But I do have to take issue with what you said about “respect them just as they are”. No, I cant have respect for someone who is doing wrong and tell them its ok”. I can treat them with respect if thats what you mean, ok, yes you are right then, but I wont respect a lifestyle that is contrary to the Bibles teachings and tell them its ok to live that way, whether it be a gay lifestyle, a drug addiction, alcohol addiction, or whatever. I wont tell someone that it is ok they do these things, because it isnt. But I do believe that no matter what kind of sinkhole some may have gotten themselves into, that we are to treat that person with a human respect. I hope that is what you meant. I like your style Smiley, you and I can agree to disagree on stuff, and talk to each other like human beings. Thank you for that.

        • Denise

          He’s telling you the truth in the word of God.If you reject the word of God you reject God.If you argue against the word you will lose.

        • Denise

          That’s what’s coming to all who reject JesusChrist as Lord and Saviour.

        • Denise

          Now you are arguing with God’s word.God states the heaven and earth will pass away but my word will never pass away.

        • http://donthaveone Mark

          Dang libertyman, until I saw your other post, I was thinking why are you attacking me? Smilee isnt gay, and he is adamant about proposing his side of things, and though I personally think he is wrong, I have to agree to disagree with him. Thats what makes this country great. There are gays. I know it is wrong in God’s eyes. Smilee thinks its ok. He thinks I am wrong, I think he is wrong, but him and I can argue like adults and agree to disagree. We say our say, and move on. I cant regress to the name calling and degrading thing, allthough 10 years ago I was probably one of the worst at it. But I did experience a change in my life when I asked Jesus in to my life, and I try to approach things better now. It doesnt help me to try to help someone change for the better like I did, when Im chopping them up and tearing them down. I had to give that up, and there are those in here that are lambasting me for my Christian beliefs and calling me a hater, well thats on them, because I assure you if I was a hater I wouldnt be praying for these guys and girls. But I am praying, and am praying that I dont become judmental again as I was years ago. But I will cite what Gods words say about things, and if someone turns that into me being judgmental, then thats on them also. Gods word judges, not me.

        • libertyman

          Yeah Mark. MY Bad.. please forgive
          The problem is not that homosexuals have sex. that is between them and God.
          The problem is with the homo community and THEIR intolerance and hate toward me and my life style (I hate that term- comes out of the homo play book) They started it, I didn’t. I didn’t care until the homo’s made me care. well I’m not going to lose
          And their stance is, they’re right and everyone else is wrong.
          WELL I DON’T AGREE!!!! Leave the kids alone, you sick twisted freaks.
          The school systems are teaching my children a homo friendly message. Which is against my belief sytem and what I teach my children. What gives them the right!!! that ought to make the homo’s happy to hear that.
          I reject their sins and my own.
          AnD THEY SAY I DON’T HAVE THAT right. screw them.

      • Denise

        The word of God is the judgement.I am only warning as the word of God requires so Rodins blood isn’t on my head like the Bible warns.

      • Denise

        Accepting Jesus as Lord and Saviour is the only way tobe saved from God’s wrath coming on the ungodly!

      • Denise

        I’m not judging them.I’m warning them.Get the difference?If you think Jesus calling the pharisees and saducees brooder vipers was wrong and unchristian,then you are decieved by Satan.I don’t hate homosexuals.I don’t call evil good and good evil.Sexual perversion is evil.

        • Smilee

          Denise

          So, its evil, may I be so bold as to say all sin both yours and mine are evil in God’s eyes and we all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. So why do you feel you should legally control by man’s law the sin of those who have sin you despise and wish to punish them. Should we make laws so man will have the right to punish all sin even yours and mine. Would you like that? It is OK to hate the sin but it is not your place or mine to force or punish the sinner for his sin and unless it puts you in jeopardy of limb or life. It does appear to me that you view the gay persons sin as different than your own and that is one of my definitions of hate.

        • libertyman

          OH smmmiillEEee, give it a rest, more homo psycobabble—- Index homo play book
          you argument is with God…good luck with THAT.

        • http://donthaveone Mark

          Denise, I believe we all have stated our case well here, and its time to move on. For it is written, “Do not argue with a fool, lest you become one yourself”. You know, its the old “you can lead a horse to water, but you cant make them drink” thing. God has called on one to plant the seed, another to water it, another to make it grow, and one to harvest it and bring it home. You know, to score the touchdown. Ive never gotten the touchdown yet, but Ive planted plenty of seeds and spread a lot of water, and I think that is what He would like most of us to do. Those that get the glory for the touchdown are probably better prepared than I to accept the glory that comes with it. Keep watering girl, and administer the Gospel in Love.

      • Denise

        God tells me if I don’t warn someone about their sin and they die in it,God will require my head because I didn’t warn them.I’ve warned them.Their blood is on their own head now.

        • Smilee

          He never told to us mistreat them in the process and I think your methods are just that. You also got this mixed up and twisted.

      • Denise

        I can tell them to accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour.That’s all they have to do to be saved.Believe on the Lord JesusChrist and you shall be saved.

      • Denise

        I’m not judging,God’s word will do that.

  • Denise

    To Peter Melville,Accepting Jesus doesn’t mean accepting evil sexual perversion.God hates homosexuality.Read Leviticus18:22,1Romans18-32,1Corinthians6.At the judgement these books will be opened.If you think God condones wht he clearly states he hates you are listening to Satan.God is not mocked whatso ever a man sows that shall he reap.i.e.Sowing carnally is death,physical and spiritual death.Sow to the spirit and you reap life eternal.

  • Denise

    Ezekial called down fire.You seem to think the two witnesses in Revelation won’t do what it states.You will see the devil come and rule on earth for a short time.Do you think the rapture is a fairytale?Read1Thessalonians4.I’m not twisting your words.You reject the truth.God is love but he doesn’t condone sexual perversion.

  • Denise

    Smilee,Do you advocate promoting AIDS/HIV?That’s what gay sex promotes in society.That’s what you advocate promoting in our society.Yes,it affects others through contact of bodily fluids or sharing needles or blood transfusions.I follow God,Jesus,and the word of God.Not laws made to uphold sexual perversion.I don’t hate gays,but I have worked for two gay older men who ran a restaurant,but even they didn’t like flaunting their bedroom habits in front of everyone.They said,”It’s disgusting the way young homosexuals flaunt their sex life in the public eye.”

    • Smilee

      What??? The majority of AID cases in the world today are with heterosexuals. Homosexuals as well a heterosexuals have this disease. It was first discovered in this country in the gay community but the majority here and in the world is now is in the heterosexual community. Those that still seem to hate gays still insist it is a gay disease and still use it to promote their agenda of discrimination against them.

      • Denise

        Guess again.I was 15 years old when Mass General Hospital quaranteened homosexual men because of AIDS.

        • Smilee

          So, I’m talking about now and this post of your changes nothing I said before

      • Denise

        That’s because of sin.

        • libertyman

          The sad thing is HIV is the only disease with civil rights. It’s against the law to ask any one if they have it. and it’s killing off the homo’s. isn’t that tragic. For instance if your 3yr old child is in a day care. the day care CANNOT ask a parent if their child has HIV.
          So lets say this child bites your child. now what happens? Why would the homo community lobby for this…
          I’LL TELL YOU WHY. their sex act is more important than you child…THANX HOMO’S
          HIV people need to be quaranteed, just like, TB, swine flu,bubonic plague etc. etc. how terrible, these people are selfish children

      • Cawmun Cents

        The only reason that is true is because of the continent of Africa,where there are 60 million AIDS cases.

  • Denise

    St.John the Baptist,Do you think God doesn’t want homosexuals to turn from their sinful sexual sins:HOMOSEXUALITY?He’s waiting very patiently for them to come to Jesus and turn from their lifestyle.He waits for drug addicts,prostitutes,drug dealers,etc.to turn from their sin.That’s why Jesus said,”Come boldly to the throne and repent of your sins.”That’s why christians pray every day for their enemies,etc.

    • http://donthaveone Mark

      That Denise, is the very thing that sets us apart as Christians from the non-believer. We know we are sinners, and we know that from time to time we fail and give into temptation. We know we are not perfect. But we know one who is, and that if we get down on our knees and pray for forgiveness, Jesus will wash us clean of our sins. Some think this gives us a free pass to sin, as they do not understand that to ” Repent” of our sins, doesnt mean to confess them to God, but to turn away from them as much as we can. You and I do not try to reconcile any wrongful deeds we do to exonerate ourselves. We recognize when we have failed, and faithfully acknowledge to the one on high, Jesus Christ, that we are sorry for what we have done, and recognize it was wrong. Those is this post seem to either not recognize what they do is wrong, or they just dont care. Some are one way, where they are in the dark and cannot even comprehend what they are doing is wrong, and some are belligerent towards God and say screw you and do what they want. I myself, dont live in a gray area where everything is allright, do whatever you want to do as long as it makes you feel good. Its not hurting anybody. I cant live there, sue me. I live in a black and white area, where right and wrong, good and bad, holy and evil are as clear as clear can be. Am I perfect? No, not even close. I fail miserably, and I dont mean to, but I do. Sometimes Im not patient enough with others. Sometimes I lose my temper and say bad words when I hit my thumb with a hammer. Sometimes Im not as loving with my wife as I should be. Sometimes I dont give enough time to help someone that needs it, or I see someone with their car broke down and I dont stop to help them. There are many things all of us could do to make it better for others, but we just fail to do it a lot of the time. But I hear from folks that tell someone “you go to hell for this, and you go to hell for that”, and its just not true. One doesnt not go to hell for being gay. One does not go to hell for being a murderer. One does not go to hell for being an adulterer. One does not go to hell for being a thief, or a molester, or a child abuser, or a politician or a lawyer. No, you go to hell for one reason and one reason only – failure to accept Jesus Christ as your saviour. Thats it. You dont have to do anything. No amount of praying, or giving or working for charity can get you into heaven. You cannot obtain it on your own, let no man boast. It is a gift of the Grace of God. When he stretched out His arms and said “I love you this much”, and took the nails for all of us, it was all done for us. All we have to do is accept Him as our Saviour. All other religions have to chase around and do this and do that to earn your way to somewhere. All those founders and gods are dead and buried in the ground. My God Jesus Christ is alive and well, and judging by the Scriptures, which say in end times you will see more and more floods, earthquakes, tornadoes, fires and destruction, and it says in the end times wrong will become right and right will become wrong, well to me it would summise that its pretty close to that time. This belief in Him is manifested in the fruits we bear, bringing others to Him and witnessing to His name, whether popular or not. To be prosecuted for His sake is a blessing unto us, and as in the letters in this post, we are indeed being blasted for our beliefs, and being called haters by many, because we care about them. We are not returned this care, nor will we be. All these things I cited early, being gay, being a murdered, being an adulterer and all these things, these are the fruits of unbelief. They tell a tale of that person’s belief system. But not I, not you, not Rodin, not my friend Smilee, nor none of us will make the judgment on each other. That is saved for but one, Jesus Christ the Lord on Judgement day. A wise man once told me, that if you werent sure where you were going, you probably werent going to where you want to go. Im sure where Im going, and I dont care what anyone says, I want every last single of one of you do go with me. I dont want anyone to miss the boat. Its going to be a brilliant ride. Please get onboard. Im out.

  • Denise

    Smilee,I don’t view their homosexuality any different than any other sin.I state God’s word.Something you seem to object to.You too will be at the judgement of JesusChrist and the Holy Bible ,along with other books will be opened.The only way your forgiven is if your sins are covered with Jesus blood.That can only be if he’s your Lord and Saviour.That means trying to live and be holy.Perfect,no.It means warning those and praying for them.

    • Denise

      I will remind you of what Jesus said,”The adultress women was about to be stoned and Jesus said,”Those among you without sin cast the first stone.They all dropped their stones because they knew they were sinners.Jesus said,”Is there anyone here to condem you?She said,”No.”Jesus said,”Go and sin no more!”

    • Smilee

      Why do you say I object to it, totally false and another inaccurate statement you are making about me. I am a Christan and because of it I respect all of gods children even the gays with the same respect as anyone else. Judge not least you be judged, Christ also said. That will be address on judgment day as well.

      • Denise

        Respecting them as a human being is fine.But don’t help promote their evil lifestyle or you will account to God for promoting what God hates.

      • Denise

        It’s okay to pray for them but it’s in the Bible,”What does darkness have to do with light?”

      • Denise

        If you are a christian,you would agree with God’s word,Leviticus18:22,1Romans18-32,1Corinthians6.You wouldn’t uphold the homosexual agenda.Yes we treat them as human beings.We don’t uphold their perverted sex acts that lead to HIV/AIDS.That’s harmful to the rest of society.

      • Denise

        You say the scriptures are twisted.I worked for two older gay men when I was 19.They didn’t worry about gay marriage or gay rights.They said,”It’s disgusting the way the younger gays flaunt their lifestyle in public.”

        • John S

          Yes Denice You are right. Gays flaunting their life style in publid is almost as discusting as all the heteros flaunting theirs. The addage that Sex Sells was based on heteros lapping it up in public every where not gays.

      • Denise

        I’m not gay.The judge not unless you be judged means I would have to be gay.

      • Denise

        I’m not gay!The ascripture states,”Don’t judge if you are doing the same sin.”

        • John S

          No denise, you are wrong again. The scripture you think you know says, “you who are “without sin” cast the first stone”. The second part YOU need to learn is “Judge NOT lest ye be judged.

  • Denise

    Smilee,What actions?My words have been out of love.God is very clear about their fate if they commit homosexuality.Are you areguing with God now?

    • NORM

      This is my simple religion. There is no need for temples; no need for complicated philosophy. Our own brain, our own heart is our temple; the philosophy is kindness.
      By Dalai Lama

      We have just enough religion to make us hate, but not enough to make us love one another.
      By Jonathan Swift

      Today, I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.
      By Adolf Hitler

      • http://donthaveone Mark

        There is one name under which men must be saved, and that is the name of Jesus Christ the Lord.

        GOD

      • Denise

        Satan is a liar!Who do you think Hitler represented?Satan!Satan appears as an angel of light.I don’t advocate killing anyone because they’re gay.

      • libertyman

        Norm do you have a point????or did you just waste those electrons for nothing

        • NORM

          Denise,Libertyman

          Religious experiences which are as real as life to some may be incomprehensible to others.
          opinion, United States v. Ballard, 1944

          My point is that your opinion of gay people is a valid point of view. Your hatred of people, woven together with your twisted religious bible belching (WORD REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT), is beyond belief. I am a Christian and I am not gay. Your view of Christianity is why Hitler could justify his actions. God is good not evil. Let Him handle sinners not you.

        • Smilee

          Right on Norm,

          I wonder if any of these who disagree with you will ever acknowledge that God will handle the judgment and handle us sinners, It seem they are competing to get the jump on God. Do you suppose they think God will consult with them first. They say they love the gay but from their words and actions it looks more like hate to me.

        • libertyman

          Norm, i enjoy your mediocrity. I’m sure your a moderate. moderate= no opinion. To associate hitler with todays fight against the homosexual mafia is simply, good time, i’m ok your ok, 60′s, hippie speak. it’s guy’s like you that have let it get this far. you pussy.
          yeah, thats hate. I hate the fact that people like you stand by and let things like this happen…kinda like obama and iran. poor Neda, what a shame.
          and norm don’t encourage sssmmmilleee boy, he’s disturbed enough…………. no reply needed norm* and norm you will stand by and let evil prosper??… how sad………………………. and ssMMiiLLEEee…. YOU… jumping on the God bandwagon…what a jokE. I’ll pray for both of you

      • Denise

        Jim Jones was another liar from Satan who told his followers to drink poison.Jesus already warned against false prophets and false preachers.

        • NORM

          Libertyman

          I know it’s way off subject, but Obama’s response on Iran was about right.

          In case you forgot or maybe never knew:

          Iran is not a part of the US and is not our’s to control.

          Our sabre rattling only aids the current Ahmadinejad adminstration by showing the US to be an imperialistic power.

          Comparing Iran’s situtation with our rev. war or 9/11 is ridiculous.

          Mousavi, the election loser, and his wife had an active role in the success of the Iranian revolution. He was imprisoned for organizing street protests against the monarchy of Shah Mohammad Reza Pahlavi. As the Iranian revolution neared, Mousavi, whose earliest political hero was Che Guevara, became more actively involved in the struggle. Soon he joined ranks with Mohammad Beheshti, who was a close associate of the revolution leader, Ruholah Khomeini. Some improvement!!

        • libertyman

          Mousavi also started the nuke program that now threatens our Friend Isreal. Norm you missed the point, obama didn’t stand up for our values. he played politics with it. at least “W” stood up for stuff (even tho he was wrong on some stuff.) I really don’t believe obama has christian values. and I’m not saying that to get you, or anyone mad or make points in some stupid political argument. I really believe that..Am i judging his heart…no… his actions.
          I also wonder if obama isn’t setting up the world for the anti-christ return. I have no other explaination for that fits.
          But Norm, you got to stand up for something. moderate’s got us where we are today. wasn’t there a scripture that said something along the lines of “if you are lukewarm I’ll puke you out of my mouth.” Please, the fight for biblical values is at the forefront of our lives.
          All the shades of grey do nothing but sully the waters in the fight. Bottom line=
          It’s a fight between God and satan for our souls. just that simple.
          God Bless you and your family. and may God have mercy on the USA

      • Denise

        If Hitler had read the real Holy Bible and not a Roman Catholic Bible,he would have known that God states,”Whoever blesses Israel I will bless.Whoever curses Israel I will curse.”

        • American Citizen

          Denise, if it were not for the Catholic Bible, there would be no Protestant Bible.

      • Denise

        Norm,Hitler came from Austria and he was a Roman Catholic.The present day pope was a nazi youth in Hitler’s day.I stay away from such evil men.That’s why Jesus went off on the pharisees and saducees who were also hypocrites.Jesus called them brooder vipers.Much like some of todays priests(pedophile priests).I know it states,”No not one is righteous.”It’s by faith in Jesus that we are saved.Not by works lest any man boast.Faith without works is dead.That means like Abraham I walk my life in faith trusting God in everything.

        • NORM

          Hitler was born a Catholic but didn’t belong to any church. Germans are about half Catholic and half Protestant.
          The pope belonged to the Hitler youth by no choice of his own. I think its unfair to call him evil.

        • American Citizen

          Denise, the German youth in Hitler’s time were forced to join the military. It was just like our young men when they reached the age of 19 were drafted. The only difference was that Hitler’s henchmen forced them to join at a very young age. In other words, they were indoctrinated, much as the public schools are doing to the children here.

  • Denise

    It’s like a child running out in front of a car.The parent chastises the child so he be safe.God chastises us through his word and through tornadoes for the wicked.

  • Denise

    To St.John the Baptist,If Rodin where following Jesus he wouldn’t be a homosexual.Jesus said,”I and my Father are one and the same.”That means that the word of God applies to Jesus,Leviticus18:22,1Romans18-32,1Corinthians6.Do you think Jesus went against God’s word?No he came to fulfill it.That means he hates homosexuality.He doesn’t hate the homosexual,just their sin.

    • Smilee

      Denise

      I don’t think rodin ever said he was homosexual, in fact in one post he talks about the church he was married in nor have I heard him say he didn’t follow Jesus and you do not know weather or not he is a christian unless he tells you so. Remember Christ also said Judge not lest you be Judged.
      He hates all sin yours and mine as well, why is it you seemed to be so fixated on the gay’s sin and no other sin?

      • Denise

        That’s “Judge not lest ye be Judged!”If you are doing the same sin then you aren’t to judge!

        • Smilee

          Ok I was working from memory, your right but it means the same, have you not yet come to the conclusion that I will not judge the gay person or treat them with disrespect, who have I judged, I have questioned no ones motives here. I think we should let God judge them and accept them here on earth just as they are. Many here and you by your own admission are not willing to do that, you want to treat them as second class citizens but to do so some judgment about them has to me made about them,

        • libertyman

          NO sMMIllee. your reaccuring theme is to invoke the name of God to stop opposition to your sex acts….very clever..but it’s right out of the homo play book chap 4…most homo’s won’t use chap 4. but you have no fear of God do you??? you put sex above it all…what a barren life you have…..but your not the first to make that choice and won’t be the last….. unfortunately. we are all sinners but not you, RIGHT ssmmmIIilllleeee.

        • http://farmboy12@hotmail.com Smilee

          MY REPY TO:

          libertyman Reply:
          June 25th, 2009 at 5:31 pm

          NO sMMIllee. your reaccuring theme is to invoke the name of God to stop opposition to your sex acts….very clever..but it’s right out of the homo play book chap 4…most homo’s won’t use chap 4. but you have no fear of God do you??? you put sex above it all…what a barren life you have…..but your not the first to make that choice and won’t be the last….. unfortunately. we are all sinners but not you, RIGHT ssmmmIIilllleeee.

          WRONG, WRONG, I am a sinner and as Christ was the only man on earth without sin I am flattered that you would conclude that I am without sin and thus equate me to Christ on that basis but you are dead wrong and I think it demonstrates your lack of knowledge of the Bible. The homo playbook, I’ve never seen of heard of it but from this and many of your other posts here it is clear it is like a bible to you and you quote it like it is gospel. It’s also clear that it must not have been written by a gay person as I cannot conceive a person with your beliefs would quote so freely from it if it was. My guess it its probably written by someone without the background or knowledge to do as and probably has an agenda similar to yours. Being I have not ever seen it much less read it my posts in now way are a reflection of what you allege and my statements reflect only my own beliefs. I can assure you you know knowing of my sexual activities and I I am amused that you would make such a ridiculously stupid statement which says more about your character than than it does about my sex life. I love God. and have no doubt He is completely OK with me and my sex life. I have a very fulfilling and rewarding life and that is the reason why, I also find your name “libertyman” a joke , your post here and the other posts of yours I have read brings me to the conclusion that you care nothing of the liberty of those you dislike or disagree with and selfishly care only of your own and would exercise that power if you had it. I thank God you do not.

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