Gallup: Growing Number Of Americans To Opt For Fine Rather Than Compliance With Obamacare Individual Mandate

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It’s been more than two weeks since its rollout, complete with rolling sight crashes and ongoing sticker shock, and Obamacare isn’t gaining any popularity. In fact, the number of Americans saying they plan to forego government healthcare and pay a resulting penalty is on the rise, according to new poll results.

According to the results of a Gallup poll released Friday, 71 percent of uninsured Americans — Obamacare’s  primary target group — said they were “not too familiar” or “not familiar at all” with the Obamacare exchanges, despite a massive and costly government effort to get the word out.

Those Americans who are familiar with Obamacare are increasingly likely to say that they will opt out and pay a fine rather than sign up for Obamacare. Asked whether they were more likely to pay the fine or opt in to Obamacare in September, 25 percent of respondents opted for the penalty and 65 percent said they would go along with the Obamacare insurance mandate. Today, 56 percent say they will comply with the President’s mandate and 34 percent say they are more likely to opt for the fine.

From the results, Gallup deduced: “Oct. 1 marked a major milestone in the implementation of the Affordable Care Act, with uninsured Americans able to find and purchase health insurance plans that would move them out of the ranks of the uninsured and move the U.S. closer to universal health insurance coverage. Of course, the rollout of the exchanges has had its share of issues, and the Obama administration is trying to address these, to allow all who want to sign up for plans now or in the coming months the ability to do so.”

Personal Liberty

Sam Rolley

Sam Rolley began a career in journalism working for a small town newspaper while seeking a B.A. in English. After covering community news and politics, Rolley took a position at Personal Liberty Media Group where could better hone his focus on his true passions: national politics and liberty issues. In his daily columns and reports, Rolley works to help readers understand which lies are perpetuated by the mainstream media and to stay on top of issues ignored by more conventional media outlets.

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  • WTS/JAY

    Obamacare levies fines on non-profit hospitals that offer free healthcare to the poor…

    It’s one of the lesser-known provisions in the so-called “Affordable” Care Act, but it’s having a major impact on charitable hospitals. Obamacare actually fines hospitals that provide free health services to the poor.

    from Daily Caller:

    Charitable hospitals that treat uninsured Americans will be subjected to new levels of scrutiny of their nonprofit status and could face sizable new fines under Obamacare.

    A new provision in Section 501 of the Internal Revenue Code, which takes effect under Obamacare, sets new standards of review and installs new financial penalties for tax-exempt charitable hospitals, which devote a minimum amount of their expenses to treat uninsured poor people. Approximately 60 percent of American hospitals are currently nonprofit.

    Charity for the uninsured is one of the factors that could discourage enrollment in Obamacare, which requires all Americans to purchase health insurance or else face new taxes themselves from the IRS.

    “It requires tax-exempt hospitals to do a community needs survey and file additional paperwork with the IRS every three years. This is to prove that the charitable hospital is still needed in their geographical area — ‘needed’ as defined by Obamacare and overseen by IRS bureaucrats,” said John Kartch, spokesman for Americans for Tax Reform.

    “Failure to comply, or to prove this continuing need, could result in the loss of the hospital’s tax-exempt status. The hospital would then become a for-profit venture, paying income tax — hence the positive revenue score” for the federal government, Kartch said. “Obamacare advocates turned over every rock to find as much tax money as possible.”

    read more: http://poorrichardsnews.com/post/64309797136/obamacare-levies-fines-on-non-profit-hospitals-that

  • Lizard

    I have ideal ..I would rather shove Obamacare up Obama azzzz

    • Cole Johnson

      With a 40 ton forklift! Ramming speed!

      • KENYAN KRUSHER

        Are Atomic enemas covered under O-Care?…..oh, that’s right, our Interloper-in-Chief is exempt from his own law!!

  • Jim

    Our political leaders from the top to the bottom are all garbage ! They care nothing about the people and everything about thier own personal gain. This great nation is a moral cesspool and going down.

  • jdn

    Its all about taxes because the government needs more and more money every day as the creation of spending bills and pork is a daily event . Its a contest in Congress to see who can waste the most money the fastest . As for Obama care I can see new regulations coming out , such as no one can receive medical attention without government approved insurance , and felony charges for violators . If the government can’t make money off your insurance they will make money jailing you .

    • Drake2003

      Obama Care is legalized extortion and a means of redistribution of wealth.

  • Sam

    Obama has done nothing for America and plenty TO it, and it’s all by design. It cost tax payers $660 million dollars for the website that doesn’t work. That money went to an outfit in Canada and the contractors were given the money without proper bidding, like congress is supposed to do. I bet the money was pilfered away and we have nothing to show for it. This is really criminal what is happening.

    • jdn

      Yes Sam , it is criminal . But as they say , what career government employed prosecutor and government employed judge would even consider a case against its employer for criminal activity ?

    • Grenade Gonzo Guvnor

      UNCONSCIONABLE!!!! There has never been a worse prez than this devil!!!

  • chris berrian

    Obama care is illegal anyway you look at it.I’m opting out and definitely not paying any fines period. If anyone tries to collect they will find the end of a gun barrel in their face!!!

  • brokebill

    What it boils down to is the government and lawmakers have enough money. They do not have to worry about what is going on in this country. They are given a great lifestyle, for ever, regardless of their service or incompetence. They make decisions for all that are based on their understanding of lifestyles and incomes. They should try living on a worker’s income just once. If we did not have the enormous, ever growing national debt, we would all be able to live comfortably. Although I’m sure the greedy capitalists.gov would find a way to take that too!

    This is a sad place to be right now.

    I have been going through the ACA approved health plans this week from BCBS. My current plan is being cancelled as of Jan 1. At 63, it is pretty sickening as to what my options are. I would give anything to have these government officials be in my shoes for one year.

    I will have to opt for the fine!

  • Alan

    Well that is to be expected. When it’s cheaper to just pay the penalty only a sucker would opt to do otherwise. Like everything else the government wants control of, it too will flounder and run in the red.

    • Muffin McFinkelstein

      These fines are not too much now, but they will start to skyrocket i’m sure as years go by & especially if not enough are signing up for health insurance, I’m sure Obummer & his corrupt cabal will probably illegally change the tax for not having health insurance…the whole thing is a disaster any way you look at it!!

      • Alan

        You are exactly right Muffin! Everything the federal government touches sooner or later spoils, no matter how well intentioned it may be. That’s the nature of the beast, especially a beast with no master.

  • Kenneth

    Yes I think we(my wife and I) will just pay the fine. The cheapest plan we could find would cost us $140 per month. Well, President Obama, we don’t an extra $140 per month to shell out to begin with, so we’ll just pay the fine, which is $300, which we don’t have either. I guess we’ll have to put it on the credit card! The number of people needs to increase to pay the fine. Obama can keep his FORCED health insurance plan!

    • wandamurline

      At least $300 and you are done for a year….instead of $140 each and every month…. a savings of $1380 a year. Good decision.

      • smilee

        But if you should end up with $100,000 medical bills + $1380 penalty that year then the cost is $102,380 as opposed to $3,600. Never say it cannot happen to me!! Please do not whine if it does!

    • smilee

      Of course if you fall down and need surgeries you could end up paying over a $100,000 then what will you say and do.

      • fahkir1

        Just shut up, you sad excuse for a human being. You can kiss my butt. If you stood before me, you wouldn’t for long.

        • smilee

          When and where did you lose your character????

  • wandamurline

    Okay, let’s be realistic here….if I were young and healthy, why the heck would I purchase insurance….pay the $95 a year fine/tax and be done with it…..if I should come down with something, then I can buy insurance for pre-existing conditions….and the money I have saved by not spending $400-500 a month on insurance when I was healthy and didn’t need it, will have more than paid for the premiums when I need to get insurance. Any moron should have know this before they voted FOR a law which none of them read. I personally hope the Unaffordable Health Care Act falls on its behind and withers away…the same for the potus in the White House.

    • smilee

      Young people get old in time! Pay me now or pay me later. $95 or 1% which ever is greater, Second year over $600.

  • Liz

    “Growing number of Americans to opt for fine”…. Until the IRS starts taking everything they own because they can’t pay the ever growing, interest laden fines. I believe that is why it has all been turned over to the IRS, they have the power to take all you own if you don’t pay. People have lost everything for not paying the taxes the IRS says they owe, just wait and see. O’Bama and his minions want everything you have and they think they will get it one way or another. Take a look at the middle east, palaces for rulers, dirt huts for the people.

  • Liz

    It won’t be long and our way of life may be gone. People can try to blame it on the Capitalist structure of this Nation but it will be the Marxist Nation they will be living in until Sharia Law takes over if O’Bama has his way. At least this is how everything seems to be heading.

    • Gimmesumadat Whatyougot

      Please look at the top contributor Tatiana Covington’s post.

      The IRS has no authority to collect fines for failure to buy health insurance. They can only write a stern letter requesting that you send money.

      The I.R.S. is authorized to process taxes and penalties accrued from late payment of taxes.

      They can bark all they want, but have no teeth to make it hurt.

      • smilee

        You ignore the penalties and interest if you do not pay

        • Vis Fac

          SMELLY Because you haven’t answered any of my questions you have no credibility. Because you haven’t answered you are a COWARD and a FRAUD Because you haven’t answered my questions you have no business commenting on anything you are a PHONY and I OWN you.

          Libertas inaestimabilis res est
          Semper-Fi

        • smilee

          Typical far right radical cruz lover rude,crude and dumber than a rock

          • Elton J

            Actually, “Progressives” are dumber than rocks. You can’t change human behavior through legislation. John Wayne knew this, everyone of his generation knew this. Progressivism is a disease that destroys individual freedom for the human being. Bruce Lee said that the human being is more important than any other policy or system he creates.

            We’ve never learned through history what happens if you give Government too much power. And now we are paying the consequences.

          • Elton J

            Actually, “Progressives” are dumber than rocks. You can’t change human behavior through legislation. John Wayne knew this, everyone of his generation knew this. Progressivism is a disease that destroys individual freedom for the human being. Bruce Lee said that the human being is more important than any other policy or system he creates.

            We’ve never learned through history what happens if you give Government too much power. And now we are paying the consequences.

          • Elton J

            Okay, Smilie, since it’s inaccurate, how do you feel about living in a totalitarian dictatorship?

          • smilee

            I am not going to live in one so no answer is necessary!

          • Vis Fac

            SMELLY answer my questions if you dare you COWARD
            So quit worming out

            I OWN you.

            Libertas inaestimabilis res est
            Semper-Fi

          • Elton J

            So, when are you going to move to the inner Earth? Are you leaving this second? If you are, please tell the High Priest “hi” for me, and there are four people in Utah that needs help to move down there.

            After all, you said you aren’t going to live in a Totalitarian Dictatorship, so that only leaves living amongst the people of the Inner Earth.

          • smilee

            You just showed how ignorant you are, did you need help coming up with this trash??

          • Elton J

            You’re the ignorant one, Smilee. The Chinese have for decades been planning an invasion of the U.S. For decades, God has been whispering in their ears and in their greedy hearts that we are weak and ripe for the taking.

            And when they do, they will kill every Jew and Christian they come across, but their orders from the Almighty is simple. Kill each and every politician and their families. Their orders from the Illuminati will be simple: take possession of the land and kill each and every Jew and Christian you come across. Most anyone who is left after their initial carnage will be taken to Chinese ships for a one way trip to China with a chain around their neck and the word “SLAVE” written across their heads.

            Those people, taken into captivity, will be the rank and file Liberal we try to convince on this site. One of them will be you.

            You don’t want to live in a Totalitarian state? Too bad, you can’t escape, Smilee, because. You. Won’t. Listen.

          • Vis Fac

            Again I notice you AVOID answering my questions so you are indeed a COWARD and a FRAUD

            You have ZERO credibility and are a LOSER and as I said earlier you don’t have the combined IQ of Pb and Hg and ares ten times more dangerous.

            I OWN you

            Libertas inaestimabilis res est
            Semper-Fi

        • Vis Fac

          SMELLY — We know you won’t pay a dime for you are one of those parasites that leech off the system so others will wind up paying your way (again).

          LOSERS like you are a POX on society contributing nothing but first in line for receiving. OBLIVIOTS like you wander around from trough to trough looking for scraps and because there are none you demean others that refuse to provide for slugs like you.

          Why won’t you answer my questions SMELLY?? Afraid of what I said is true not man enough to admit you are a total failure?

          SMELLY you have ZERO credibility and no business making comment on anything for you are incapable of providing anything lucid.
          I OWN YOU !!!!!

          Libertas inaestimabilis res est
          Semper-Fi

      • Cunning Stunts

        You forget under OBOZO, the IRS can do ANYTHING they want to anyone anywhere & get away with it!!

      • Liz

        Sorry to disagree but this “law” was reworded making it a TAX by the Supreme Court because it was Unconstitutional otherwise. So the IRS can do anything they want to collect this TAX and O’Bama will make sure you pay.

        • Mountain Man Mashinsky

          May I remind you & all, it was rewritten by Judge Nutsy Roberts who should be hung by his balls. He let govt. argue it was a fine on monday, that is the way the law was written…then 2 days later, after govt. sensed it was not going their way, he let them argue it was a tax, so as Scalia said, “He rewrote the law for them & signed off on it as constitutional.”…add to that the fact that he did not let arguments asking for the removal of Komrade Kagan before court heard case in the clearest example of a conflict of interest you will ever see!!! If Roberts ruled correctly, it is most likely this blasted boondoggle would’ve died!!

          • Deerinwater

            ooo! good post! Our politics might be different but I enjoy your argument.

            why not complete your profile and introduce yourself?

          • Franklin

            Agree Roberts should be put in jail along with Obama
            and Michelle .

          • Korporal Kapish

            Don’t forget Hillary The Harlot & Holder The Racist Scolder…they have much blood on hands & soul…Benghazi & Fast & Furious!!

        • fahkir1

          Don’t you mean TAX, jagoff?

  • Catfish Crap-o-la

    ATTENTION ALL CHRISTIANS: Look into Medi-Share also known as Christian Care Ministries, it is not insurance , but a health co-op, been around for 20 years & you get low rates with great coverage & the ObummerCare exemption!! No money goes towards contraceptives or abortion…IN YOUR FACE, OBAMA YOU HALF-BLACK DEVIL!!!!

    This is what people should do…like-minded souls banning together to pool their money & get away from the whole corrupt system of insurance & govt.

    You could always convert to Islam also, because since they do not believe in insurance, they get an exemption. Hey, they don’t believe in insurance , but believe in blowing themselves & others to death! If you do become Muslim, please blow up The Half-White House when Obummer is in it!!

  • Vis Fac

    MY response and you’ll know why liberals should shoulder blame rather that lay blame Read it and weep

    http://beforeitsnews.com/opinion-conservative/2012/10/pew-report-republicans-smarter-than-democrats-tea-party-more-educated-2509406.html

    Libertas inaestimabilis res est
    Semper-Fi

    • Vis Fac

      I never ignore history for I am a student of history Did rather well in college on the subject Wound up teaching the professors a thing or two because I conduct my own research using several sources not just one. So spare me your history lesson for I’ve lived and seen more than you have.

      SO lets discuss your accusation of why DUMBOCRITES shouldn’t shoulder the blame OK I only need a sentence or two

      Fist off The house sent several budget proposals to the DUMBOCRITICALY controlled Senate where the Head DUMBOCRITE Harry Reid REFUSED to submit them for consideration Is that the republicans fault or the DUMBOCRITES fault? Now when was the last time that the DUMBOCRITES managed to get 95% of what they asked for in a budget? Why is it that ODUMBO and REID didn’t want to negotiate wanting 100% of what they wanted then turn around and blame the republicans for not negotiating?

      Your logic is painfully FLAWED you have no argument and the scientific study as SPOT on !!!

      Libertas inaestimabilis res est
      Semper-Fi .

      • macgyver1948

        Force Recon… You must be pretty old for have lived more than I. I too am a history buff but I didn’t major in it. If I want to know the details of the battles you fought I might ask you about them. I mentioned what I remember.

        There were “several budget proposals” your guys submitted, as you said, to the Democrats (we could get into a childish name calling event as you did but I prefer not to) but the Democrats saw they would hurt the economy and so many Americans, as the TPGOP
        Shutdown was doing, so they opted out. There is way too much political compromise just to settle things and that cannot be the best way to go. “Compromise” generally means ‘you guys give up something and we will stop what we did’, as it generally is with TPGOP threats and actions. I would rather take blame for not
        compromising just to settle than to possibly hurt so many people as well as the economy. The TPGOP would not be hurting by their apathetic actions so why would they care? Did you ever notice why the TP controlled GOP does what they do? I think it is obvious and no one had to tell me.

        I am not arguing against your sites scientific study, my majors were Computer Science and Math so I am not in a position to argue with it especially since I do not see details that I probably would not understand enough of at all, just the English as you. I am laughing at the joke that is the title of the article and the article’s intentions.

        • Vis Fac

          If you were born in 48 yes I am older than you. But age is not a factor or criteria for having knowledge or common sense.

          Unlike you I haven’t sat on my rear and let the world pass me by. I have been active and learned from my experiences. I have conducted business on several continents and seen the damage that economic policies like ODUMBO wants to FORCE on Americans.

          You tout DUMBOCRITIC economics as being what’s good for the nation. Have you taken notice as to what happened in Detroit where 60 plus years of DUMBOCRITIC economic policies have decimated
          that once thriving metropolis??? And you want that for America??? All I can say id WOW !!!

          Why are you liberal? Let me ask you as I have asked others and have yet to receive responses other than what “your” idea of a response should be.

          Aside from receiving free welfare, free food stamps, government support, having no personal responsibility, believing that you know everything and have authority
          to dictate others how they should live, and in lieu of providing solutions to problems (that you continually ignore) that would actually work instead
          enacting inane ineffective statutes. In short what have you provided that could be considered positive towards society?

          Why is it that you continue to champion for the safety of our children then reverse your concerns when it comes to government sanctioned murder of millions of innocents children through Planned Parenthood? You certainly make a lot of noise when a nut case goes off and murders school children by deafly mute about
          murder by abortion. Why is that?

          Another thing I have asked and again you liberals never have any response. What are you going to do when (not if) the money runs out and there are no more
          people to tax that pay your entitlements, print more paper? When asked about the bankruptcy of Detroit you liberals continue to blame it on mismanagement
          forgetting Detroit has been managed by DUMBOCRITES for more than 60 years yet
          STILL do not except responsibility!!! Why is that?

          Personally; I think the biggest draw to liberalism is the lack of having to except personal responsibility for oneself and assign blame of your failure on
          others.

          This eliminates the need to be proficient in school or at ones job. The old reliable liberal trademarked maxim ‘It’s not MY fault”. We all know it is an excuse for you to cop out.

          I am of the opinion that people with weak character, weak minds, and compromised morals are those who embrace liberalism. They are most often angry
          at success and because their lethargy and indolence will never let them achieve success so they hate, abase and ridicule those who have. We all know most
          people like to take the easy way out and in that respect the “most” here in the nation embrace liberalism.

          Since liberals feel (subconsciously) inferior and as misery loves company; liberals try to control others through statute inflicting as much misery as possible.

          Again; and I don’t expect a response: I would like to know why you think our Constitution is out dated and why you are willing to cede freedoms which when
          lost can never be regained sans revolution as our forefathers fought for. If you are at all honest with yourself you will see you are in error a grievous
          error that can be fatal.

          Libertas inaestimabilis res est
          Semper-Fi

          • macgyver1948

            Force Recon… You are right, age is not a factor, but “here we go again”. You, in your “Right” speak” when you say “Unlike you I haven’t sat on my rear and let the world pass me by. I have been active and learned from my experiences. I have conducted business on several continents and seen the damage that economic policies like ODUMBO wants to FORCE on Americans”

            You are ASSuming I only sat around on my rear but you “know noting”, as Sgt Schultz of Hogan’s Heroes would say. You might have loads of experience but you do not see that both sides are doing wrong, it is
            just the Right as I see as the greater evil. I am not in favor or Plutocracy as the Right is so eager to achieve with great control. I am not in favor of the non-affluent being used as tools and equipment, only as needed, for the Corporations and the Right is fighting for that in so many ways. Their just ended, thank God,
            Government Shutdown of theirs is just their latest attempt but they will be back because the big money will demand it. Sure, Obama does things that are not always in our best interests but so much of what
            he does is.

            Now Force Recon, please do not try to do a Right thing by saying I am ok with over spending and the debt ceiling to reach Mars by New years Eve. That is yet another BS tactic of the Rights’ for how they want
            all to see Liberals, all Liberals, but so many Liberals do not see it that way.

            I want prudent spending along with responsible relevant to the needs of the times taxation and needed government services to thrive with decent budgets. I want needed regulations that help our environment
            and our workers, all people in general, but also to not restrict the employers too much so they can not make decent profits. We need companies to make profits because no nation can prosper otherwise but we do not need the greed taking over, with or with out the help of their paid-for friends in Congress and some of the agencies.

            You say so much irrational and unreal BS about Liberals here and you say it with “personally” as the thought that would change what you believe to truth. But do not worry, you are not alone by a long shot
            on your side with your kinds of thinking.

            Here is one “Personally” I think the biggest draw to liberalism is the lack of having to except personal responsibility for oneself and assign blame of your failure on others” I know is a crock in general. I personally feel people who think like you are so very
            generalizing and that could be because you are told to think that way by the side you chose. I for one, and with so many of the liberals I know across the country, do not want handouts, I’d rather be self-reliant. You are one of the many on the Right, especially seen
            on sites like this Right one, who say things to those who do not agree with them but since those people receiving your disagreed-with programming and know it isn’t true about them would just laugh at you
            justifiably. Do you see how little credibility you and those who speak as you have when you do those things? What am I suppose to do with what you say of Liberals when I know it is not true of so many of us? Do you see how we, the many of us Liberals, who know we aren’t as you say, take your thoughts and beliefs and words? I do not want your money.

            All I can do is laugh at you when you and those like you say things such as “They are most often angry at success and because their lethargy and indolence will never let them achieve success so they hate, abase
            and ridicule those who have”. I want Bill Gates size money and success, as many Liberals do. I worked my ways through school to try to get to those levels and so many Liberals also have but we are realistic about it. You are a joke when you say these things to and
            of those who know it isn’t true about them. YOU have the fantasy image of so many Liberals, Democrats in general, the Right, with great Tea Party influence, wants you to have so you will not see what is not in their best interest and believe who is not them. They must love you for how you are taking to their desires for you. I do not care if you aren’t a member of the Tea Party, you have the thought process they want for you.

            You say “Since liberals feel (subconsciously) inferior and as misery loves company; liberals try to control others through statute inflicting as much misery as possible”. LOL, WOW… I do not know what to say other than “LOL, WOW” to this and what follows. You
            act like an uneducated/UN-trained and programmed psychologist here, LMAO. :-)

            “Again; and I don’t expect a response: I would like to know why you think our Constitution is out dated and why you are willing to cede freedoms which when lost can never be regained sans revolution as our
            forefathers fought for. If you are at all honest with yourself you will see you are in error a grievous error that can be fatal”

            WOW, LOL… So you think I think the Constitution is “out dated”. LOL.. Since I never thought or said that I more so think you are programmed to do the “Right Speak” thing. LMAO… There we go again. A Right guy thinks he knows the minds and the thoughts and the
            beliefs of other people as though God gave him the gift of mind reading. Thanks for speaking for me. You should really run for the GOP nomination for President so we can continue that laugh circus in 2016 from this last time. Will God also tell you to run. LOL…

            You really did say I am “willing to cede freedoms”, and I have to add Liberty for all US Citizens. I cannot believe you went that far with your programming. I would defend the Liberties and “freedoms which
            when lost can never be regained sans revolution as our forefathers fought for”. I want it equally for all US Citizens. Shows what you do not know which is a lot.

            Oh yeah, one of us is in “a grievous error that can be fatal”. about Liberals in general but it cannot be you being honest about it because your programming will get in the way. LOL

            This was so very funny, thank you Force Recon. Not just LOL but LMAO. So, you also felt I wouldn’t respond, did you. More of what you really do not know. I wouldn’t respond. LOL… You made my day, thank you again for your fantasy “Right speak”. :-).

          • Vis Fac

            I assume nothing I call em as I see em. Being in business for more than 35 years I have learned to read people not only how that act but what and how they say things You say whet the typical self serving liberal says.

            Rest assured I have been to more than my fair share or rodeos and know all too well what ALL politicians do. This is why I have said and continue to say vote em out and start anew with new faces and strict rules.

            As you have failed to answer my questions I will not assume but know you are posturing and I’m only going to comment on relevant issues

            What you say you want and what you really want are two different things for if you truly wanted “prudent spending along with responsible relevant to the needs – and not usurpation of OUR constitution and don’t want Bill Gates’ Money ETC ETC ETC I say you are full of it Liberal tenet wants NOTHING of the sort Now it’s MY turn to laugh

            1) You want environmental regulations for workers health and with companies making a profit– OK fine when all the nations on this planet conform then we can talk. As for profitable companies in the US well stop over regulations and Taxing us out of business to pay your entitlements.

            2) Regarding your feelings on corporations i know you are speaking of the 1% who OWN ODUMBO and the media. Regular corporations such as the one I owned are NOT in the same league and is erroneous for you to ASSume they are.

            3) Again you ASSume that “I have the fantasy image of so many Liberals, Democrats in general,and influenced by the Tea Party or something along that line. Well as you have been “educated” by LIBERAL one dimensional indoctrination camps that masquerade as public schools it is a no brainer that you feel that way you are the propaganda and drank the Kool-Aid, ASSuming you know all about the Tea Party because you have been programmed!!

            4) We are patriotic Americans. We peacefully assemble. We petition our government. We exercise our right to free speech and we don’t understand why our government tried to stop us. We aren’t here as serfs or vassals. We’re not begging our lords for mercy.
            We are born free American citizens and we’re telling our government that you’ve forgotten your place. It’s not your responsibility to look out for our well being and monitor our speech. It’s not your right to assert an agenda. The post that you occupy exists to preserve American liberty. You’ve sworn to perform that duty and you have failed.

            The rest of your rhetoric is just that liberal rhetoric without substance which doesn’t merit comment . I do have to give you credit for trying (feeble as it was) to defend your agenda. Bottom line you pack a platform that is neither healthy for America or sound. Liberals only back what is in their best interests not the interests of America !!!

            The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

            You don’t have to be a Marine to make a difference the only requirement is being truly patriotic and the willingness to back it up!!!

            Libertas inaestimabilis res est
            Semper-Fi

          • macgyver1948

            Force Recon… You are not saying anything new from what you have already said proving nothing. Since I got out of the Air Force in 1970 I have worked for the Federal Reserve system for almost 7 years and then for corporations for 40 some years, plus almost 4 years working at a commercial bank while in college, and I have learned they are all in it for themselves, as HHH of the WWE says “What is best for business”. It’s funny, the Mafia says that too, LOL. We The People” do not count if we aren’t influential and/or wealthy
            enough to the Corporations, especially the big ones, and many in Government.

            And you saying again of me that I am “the typical self serving liberal” shows again you know nothing about me and many who are left of the aisle. I see no credibility in your words. I worked closely with upper management and Corporate execs in many of my positions so I also have experiences as you do, although not the same.

            LOL. I believe I said I do want Bill Gates size money.

            You understand less than nothing about people who do not agree with you and I do not need you to agree with me but let’s go through this.

            “What you say you want and what you really want are two different things for if you truly wanted “prudent spending along with responsible relevant to the needs – and not usurpation of OUR constitution and don’t want Bill Gates’ Money ETC ETC ETC I say you are full of it Liberal tenet wants NOTHING of the sort Now it’s MY turn to laugh

            Are you really going to continue the programming of the Right by telling me what I say and mean are two different things? Well, I see the programming in you. I do want “prudent spending along with responsible relevant to the needs” of the people” Sorry, your
            mind reading act is not a reality based act.

            Your “1) You want environmental regulations for workers health and with companies making a profit– OK fine when all the nations on this planet conform then we can talk. As for profitable companies in the
            US well stop over regulations and Taxing us out of business to pay your entitlements”.

            We have to start with the only corporations we may have some legal say over, ours. The rest may have to watch to see how do but there is so much hypocrisy in what and how we do so the foreign corporations are
            skeptical at best of our dealings with our own corporations. I would have to ask “Who is really in control?”.

            Your “2) Regarding your feelings on corporations i know you are speaking of the 1% who OWN ODUMBO and the media. Regular corporations such as the one I owned are NOT in the same league and is erroneous for you to ASSume they are”.LOL, as you continue to do the little kid insulting and name calling thing, LOL>

            I am sure Obama is controlled to some extent, influenced at least, after all he received financial support from some corporations too but he does a lot of his own thing for us. I am seeing and speaking
            of the massive control the Tea Party took over the GOP and also the conflict-of-interest pledges, such as the Norquist Pledge with isn’t only about taxes and spending. The Right, those in Government who tag
            along so they can continue to receive the huge $$$ help and advertising to win, which seems way to attractive to pass up, will stay but they, over 270 GOP plus others on the Right in Congress, are also afraid to violate the pledges they signed so they are the
            CONTROLLED ones. IT is like a Mafia or Yakuza Pledge to them when it comes to their careers. No shots to the head or fingers being chopped off but their careers are threatened if they violate their oath in the Pledge. Norquist says of those who violate the oath “they will be toast”, and he has the money and the clout to do it.

            You number 3) is too ridiculous to got too much into but I will say this. My Education of the Tea Party is my own and not what the Left has told me. I researched the top people behind the Tea and the organization they are an off shoot from. That group, JBS, was hugely for the big corporations over the rest of us and they spent fortunes on fighting Civil Rights, especially in the 1960s. If anyone has the audacity to disagree with them they called them Commies, like they did with President Eisenhower. This is the basic structure of the off shoot, The Tea Party whop was started with loads of help from the Koch Brothers and others like them, with the name calling and insults. Fred Koch, a huge financial contributor to JBS, also the daddy of the infamous Koch Brothers, had shown his bouts with bigotry and desire to help only the big corporations and he very much passed that on to his boys. I just feel if we are going to join and support an organization we should know what is really going on with the top
            of that organization. Does the top really feel as I do or are they just paying lip service to gain my support?

            In regard to your number 4) and some more on your 3). I have little doubt the rank and file of the Tea Party, the every day non-affluent people, are believing they are being told the truth by the leaders. And I have little doubt you feel your support for Tea is patriotic but do you align your self with only the Corporations and are you against civil rights and all the other things the daddy of Tea, The John Birch Society, who followed along in their foot steps? Also you should know that American KKK and Noe-Nazi groups wanted to join with
            Tea because they share so much. Tea couldn’t have that publicly known so publicly there was no obvious joining because so many who have joined them, those grass-roots every day non-affluent people, especially those who are Christians, wouldn’t join Tea. Do some
            research on that.

            If you do not do some real research then my suggestion to you is just enjoy your fantasies and programming. You are right, you do not have
            to be a Marine to be a real patriot but I have had a good number of friends in my life who were marines. Many of them are on the Left but if we truly love what America stands for we shouldn’t be fighting each other but instead those who are not in it for us instead
            controlling our Government for their own purposes. Even the US Founders warned us about the greed of big business and those in Government with price tags on their backs.

          • Vis Fac

            LOL liberalese for I don’t have anything to support my position BS more liberalese meaning the same.

            I owned and operated my own small “S” corporation which was markedly different to the “corporate structure” you envision or have experienced. You’ve only seen the 1% the government says it wants to tax yet doesn’t it is in no way a realistic representation of American small business corporations.

            Since all you know is government and you have no idea of the real world of those who produce.

            I have learned a lot about people just being observant noticing their body language and what they say and how they say it What you say speaks volumes and I indeed know who and what you are I am spot on in my assessment of you (remember LOL speaks volumes) .

            The rest of your diatribe is merely shallow and empty words that insecure people say to make themselves seem learned and important.

            I have told you how you are what you believe and you are in error for supporting dangerous and fatal dogma. You are caught up in the liberal panacea which destroying this nation too bad you are so brainwashed as to not see it.

            I feel sorry for your children and grand children who will shoulder the debt you and your fellow liberals thrust upon this nation because you cannot restrain yourselves enough to be responsible enough to fend for yourselves and live withing your means.

            You don’t have to be a Marine to make a difference the only requirement is being truly patriotic and the willingness to back it up!!!

            Libertas inaestimabilis res est
            Semper-Fi

          • macgyver1948

            Force Recon… I know the difference between an S-Corporations and a big corporations. Thanks again for ASSuming what you think you know of me. You missed my point but I think you wanted to, lol.

            LOL.. You say to me “Since all you know is government and you have no idea of the real world of those who produce”. WOW, you just do not stop with your assumptions and taking what you prefer to believe. Do you take all of your life out of context too? I worked almost 7 years for the Federal Reserve system, the rest of my 40 years or so was in private corporations, some very huge and some small. You are a joke with how you think and respond.

            The rest of you comment is just more assumptions and pure BS so I will stop here. My kids do not need or want your being sorry because they see what is going on too and I do not tell them what to think.

          • Vis Fac

            There you go again with your juvenile usage LOL further proving I have you nailed . I know you I read what you write and Now You have made an A$$ out of yourself by A$$uming I “all I know is big government”

            If you had been the least bit observant and comprehended what others write you would have saved yourself a bit of embarrassment as you would have known I am an engineer owing my own corporation employing as many as 100 people having actually PRODUCED a product and provided for the community. You would also have known I have conducted business on every continent sans Antarctica and hold advanced degrees including an MBA !

            I am a doer you merely sit on your butt and A$$ume you know everything! You are a FRAUD

            You have ZERO knowledge of what it takes to form and operate a profitable corporation that produces a product. You merely push paper in a make believe reality. Yeah I know all about you and your type

            As you “think” you know all just because you have been programmed by the federal reserve, worked at a bank or spent in 40 years in a corporate environment all you are is a PAPER PUSHER and again you A$$ume no one else knows anything.

            Again I am NOT assuming I have had dealings with CLOWNS like you for a number of years and you are not my first egotistical clown I’ve had the displeasure of conversing with. Had you worked at any of the banks I dealt with you’d be gone I don’t put up with nonsense of jokers like you!

            Liberal indoctrination is embedded deep inside you as a consequence you know NOTHING of reality only what your handlers feed you. Time for a reality check

            You still have yet to address my other questions regarding When the money runs out your position on what you call near and dear “children” and the aborting of them. To that end you are a pathetic hypocrite.

            No need for you to reply as you’ll only respond with your usual juvenile LOL

            You don’t have to be a Marine to make a difference the only requirement is being truly patriotic and the willingness to back it up!!!

            Libertas inaestimabilis res est
            Semper-Fi

          • macgyver1948

            Force Recon… There I go again? LOL. No me, I do not feel any nails. I went by your words. We are going nowhere with how we do this. Until you do some real research on your own we might have nothing grown-up
            to discuss. You will continue to ASSume what I “really” mean and I will just see your name-calling and insults and assumptions of the Left. We trump each other in that mess, nothing more

            See what I mean when you say you are a doer and I just sit on my butt and only know big government. Why would you say that when I said differently of myself? WOW. You see only what you want to see, not what is there but what you can edit to attempt to prove your points.

            I thought you were an engineer of some kind and I knew you are a business owner. I got that before. WOW, do you need delusion to make you feel right and important?

            LOL. I never thought “I know it all”, ss you say in your fantasy world, and your saying you know me and my type doesn’t change the truth except maybe in that fantasy world of yours. More of how you are the fraud. I just pushed papers around, did I? Ok, but there were many small and large systems designed by me and I managed nice size teams but you know better. I told a couple of others on this site that when you make stuff up about people who do not agree with you, and they know what you say of them ISN’T true”, your credibility level goes way down. You are a cookie cutter Right Winger
            as are many on your side in here.

            You say to me “Liberal indoctrination is embedded deep inside you as a consequence you know NOTHING of reality only what your handlers feed you. Time for a reality check”. Do you ever get tired of being wrong? And are you happy you started this with me? The things you say are right out of the Tea Party hand book for those on the Left so you are well programmed.

            You say here “You still have yet to address my other questions regarding When the money runs out your position on what you call near and dear “children” and the aborting of them. To that end you are a pathetic hypocrite.”. I did respond to that, as much as you deserve. I told you my kids do their own thinking and I do not have to teach them how wrong your Tea is for a free society. They see that all by themselves.

            What are you a patriot of? IT certainly is not of Liberty and Freedom for all equally. Americanism, Marine or not, seems to escape you.

          • Vis Fac

            And there you go with your childish inane LOL! No wonder you have comprehension problems you’re stuck in veg text mode.

            How about living a life full of experience in which to draw from instead of using incorrect internet BS!! Most of my research is “hands on” where’s your hands on experience for that matter where’s your common sense? Redundant for we all know liberals have no common sense just knee jerk reactions emphasis on the jerk part.

            And for the record I am much more of a patriot than you’ll ever imagine yourself to be I need no one to stroke my ego as you seem to need for my accomplishments speak for me You have yet to accomplish anything other than demonstrate your infantile behavior.

            The amount of concern I have for your opinion can be measured in micro-give-a[expletive deleted] Try doing something with that pathetic life of yours learn another inane phrase as LOL is so trite
            and passé

            The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter. Winston Churchill

            You don’t have to be a Marine to make a difference the only requirement is being truly patriotic and the willingness to back it up!!!

            Libertas inaestimabilis res est
            Semper-Fi

          • macgyver1948

            Force Recon… LOL. So you do not like that, those “incorrect internet BS!!”. LOL. Where are we? Not in your realm.

            I could show you so many sites detailing the nature of Tea Party and their leaders, and associations, but you would probably go back to sleep and in your dream world you would rationalize how wrong they have to be because they come from someone on the Left. How could you be wrong??? LOL LOL LOL…Oh, and, LOL

            I mentioned the other day that the KKK and Neo-Nazi groups want to join The Tea Party because they have so much in common. Outwardly that can’t happen because Tea would lose so many of its members. But guess what, just as Tea Party want to publicly dissociate themselves from the JBS behind the scenes they are all in it with them. Tea party comes from the John Birch Society. Go on enjoying what owns so many in the GOP and it doesn’t stop with the GOP.

            Where there is smoke there is more than just fire at times. There is so much out there to see who and what the Tea Party is and who they come from. Do your own research, you say you are good at that. I bet you
            can find so much more.

            Go ahead Force Recon, deny all you want because you can’t be wrong or whatever. But there is too much to listen to the denials. Continue to drown in your Right/GOP and Tea think. Learn who you are defending and then you will know more of what you really are if you still defend them.

            http://www.democratichub.com/posts/4850/default.aspx

            http://arthuride.wordpress.com/tag/fred-c-koch/

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Birch_Society

            http://www.city-data.com/forum/politics-other-controversies/1200312-john-birch-society-koch-brothers-beck.html

            For the fun of it”

            http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=17630

            http://koch-industries-organized-crime.blogspot.com/2011/11/who-are-koch-brothers-and-are-they.html

            https://www.facebook.com/WrappedInTheFlagByClaireConner/posts/604815349539791

            …and
            on and on and on, etc…

          • Vis Fac

            I’ve gotten to you and you have definitely LOST IT and I now OWN you

            The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter. Winston Churchill

            You don’t have to be a Marine to make a difference the only requirement is being truly patriotic and the willingness to back it up!!!

            Libertas inaestimabilis res est
            Semper-Fi

          • macgyver1948

            Force Recon…. You own nothing outside you personal space but that does include your mind which is all programming. For you to think you “OWN” me speaks so loudly of your delusions. If you deny who you
            align yourself with then you are no American Patriot. I wonder if you even look at some of those sites I shared with you. Do your own research on the groups and the people mentioned in them and do not only look for the good things they may have done. Even Satan tells the truth at times when it would help push his agenda.

            So, you think you got to me? LMAO…..LOL LOL LOL…. You have no credibility so how could you? LOL

            Here is a part of a comment I wrote to someone else on this site today and I want to share it with you. Do your own research and find out what you are really supporting, you research expert you.

            You are so correct with “It seems to me, and I think to most fair-minded people, that the measure of a compassionate society is the ability to give someone a second chance and to establish a floor below which we won’t allow someone to live”. But you last sentence
            is only touching the service with what you say, and I very much agree, is “ rightwingers like Dave, that kind of true compassion sounds like Stalin speaking.”. I have a whole theory why there is so much of that and it comes from those who supported the JBS (and
            their successors today), Senator McCarthy and his cross dresser buddy in the FBI and so on. JBS called President Eisenhower a commie because he wouldn’t totally support the big Corporations but I wonder
            if it was also because he fought against the Nazis in WW2. I told you it was just a theory, or is it? LOL.

          • Vis Fac

            Yes Mac I do own you because you keep coming back with your same nonsensical LOL’s an adolescent would use and trying to prover how sophisticated you think you are. Someone who is 65 years old as 1948 would suggest should have some sort of recognition what liberalism has done to the nation

            Sir Winston Churchill said it best; “If a person is not a liberal by age 20 he has no heart. However, if he was not a conservative at age 30 he has no brain!”

            So again reply with your i8nfantile LOL’s and prove that I indeed OWN you.

            So the amount of my concern for your opinion of me can be measured in micro-give-a[expletive deleted]

            The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter. Winston Churchill

            You don’t have to be a Marine to make a difference the only requirement is being truly patriotic and the willingness to back it up!!!

            Libertas inaestimabilis res est
            Semper-Fi

          • macgyver1948

            Force Recon… Ok but you continue to say what I send to you is nonsense as your programming forces you to. If you do not look into those and do your own searches, as I suggest, after those you will never know
            how you are owned by them as you do just what they want of you. You are a good little controlled and trained Marine for them.

            Is it correct to assume of you that you are against Democracy when you constantly offer the Winston
            Churchill quote for age determination of what type of thinker we should be by what age we are? You seem to like Churchill with his other quote maybe because it supports your programming. Good for you, :-)

            Again, you own nothing. Even the thinking you do is part of your delusions and owned by your programmers. Check out what I send and research
            those if you have the guts to maybe find out you could be wrong.

          • Vis Fac

            I offer quotes that are apropos to the topic Most are from statesmen others from noteworthy people As you will never achieve noteworthy status or provide anything of tangible value to society you are pissed Too bad live with it.

            I am against democracy when it is mostly made up of dumbed down uneducated people hell bent on pushing a mob rule mentality. Most people prefer to be lazy and feed of others in a democracy those who work will forever be providing for those who refuse in this sense a democracy is counter productive those receiving the fruits of other’s labor would not agree.

            Your democracy adheres to a credo that call for amoral behavior the embracing of homosexuality when in fact homosexuality is an abomination. Your democracy embraces hypocrisy the faux care for children when on the opposite hand you think nothing of slaughtering innocent children via Planned parenthood If this is democracy what about the rights of those you choose to murder? In other words you democracy is hypocrisy!!!

            I am for a republic (our nation) which contains an element of democracy that can be over ruled held in check and not let run amok more like what our forefathers envisioned.

            Since you A$$ume I have no guts I should remind you that I have actually worked for a living produced a product employed scores of people while you played office and produced nothing.

            If you wish to continue I can render anything you say null and void

            Therefore I OWN you

            The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

            You don’t have to be a Marine to make a difference the only requirement is being truly patriotic and the willingness to back it up!!!

            Libertas inaestimabilis res est
            Semper-Fi

          • macgyver1948

            Force Recon… LOL… You say to me “As you will never achieve noteworthy status or provide anything of tangible value to society you are pissed Too bad live with it”… WOW, you are out of your Tea soaked brain. Who programmed you to think I was pissed for that
            or any reason? LOL

            I am not for a “mob rule mentality” either which s one of many reasons I am not for Tea. I remember there was a Tea gathering where my state’s Senator, Claire MacCaskill, was invited to speak. While she was speaking she was harassed and chased out of the building with guard protection. It looked like it was incited by the leaders. Actually it is the mob rule thing that bothers me, it could be during a Democratic meeting but it is about the what and not the who. I have seen several Tea get-togethers and they seem to be on automatic when it comes to their gang anger when someone who isn’t of them is there It could be reporter or Mother Teresa but group anger seems to come out.

            You say “Your democracy adheres to a credo that call for amoral behavior the embracing of homosexuality when in fact homosexuality is an abomination. Your democracy embraces hypocrisy the faux care for
            children when on the opposite hand you think nothing of slaughtering innocent children via Planned parenthood If this is democracy what about the rights of those you choose to murder? In other words you
            democracy is hypocrisy!!!”.

            I say the hypocrisy is in those who claim they are for Liberty and Freedom (you know, the Constitution), as well as Human Rights, but when there are life styles which they do not approve of, or when a person should have privacy with her doctor, as thought you have that right. Personally I am opposed to abortion but that shouldn’t be up to me. I also remember
            people such as you denying certain colors of people to ride in the back of the bus or that they shouldn’t have the right to vote. Liberty and Freedom has to be for all equality and not for just who you decide in a free society. My Democracy is for equal liberty and
            freedom for all our citizens, even you.

            You imagine with “Since you A$$ume I have no guts I should remind you that I have actually worked for a living produced a product employed scores of people while you played office and produced nothing.

            If you wish to continue I can render anything you say null and void” that you “OWN” me. LMAO is the only response I can offer because you are a joke.

            The “ have no guts” part to you was for you if you do not have the guts to even risk finding out if you could be wrong, not your career. Who cares about your career other than you with how you take pleasure
            in sharing it with us as often as you can.

            Let’s end this now, I have had enough laughs with you. So do not respond anymore.

          • Vis Fac

            As for the Tea Party We are patriotic Americans. We peacefully assemble. We petition our government. We exercise our right to free speech and we don’t understand why our government tried to stop us. We aren’t here as serfs or vassals. We’re not begging our lords for mercy. We are born free American citizens and we’re telling our government that you’ve forgotten your place. It’s not your responsibility to look out for our well being and monitor our speech. It’s not your right to assert an agenda. The post that you occupy exists to preserve American liberty. You’ve sworn to perform that duty and you have failed !!!

            Checkmate!!!

            The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

            You don’t have to be a Marine to make a difference the only requirement is being truly patriotic and the willingness to back it up!!!

            Libertas inaestimabilis res est
            Semper-Fi

          • macgyver1948

            Force Recon… It would be so great if what you say about you tea baggers is all there is for those at the top of Tea as well but it is NOT. You are afraid to find out if you could be wrong about your chosen authority and their real agendas. I am not trying to convert
            you to being a Liberal, I wouldn’t think of it, but your side says all who do not agree with you are wrong so that negates Liberty in itself but there is much more. Look at the ways you name call and insult as a angry self righteous spoiled child just because I chose to see things in ways that make the most sense to me of what is being offered.

            If it is not the government’s task to take care of you “Just Say No” if you can afford your life all by yourself. I am concerned with those who cannot and deserve help and the denying the needs of others says a lot about you. That to me is the compassion of a decent free country. If you are a Christian, as I am not, I bet your Jesus would more agree with me than you.

            What game are you playing using “Checkmate!!!” because you are nowhere near winning a chess match here? Do the mature responsible thing and see if you could possibly be wrong about Tea. If you find out you are right then you can feel you won a victory and you weren’t deeply fooled but otherwise no way will there ever be a “Checkmate!!!” for you in so many ways.

          • Vis Fac

            Yeah and it would be so great if you liberals were as benevolent as you think you are. In fact it would be great if you were at least one tenth as benevolent as you think you are.

            It would be great if you liberals took the time and opened your eyes to the damage you have done to our country with the initiation of the federal reserve all designed to provide a few with control of our money thus control I guess to you our economy is robust.

            It would be nice if you weren’t hypocritical too we’ve discussed this before I could go on but your childish ideas that you know all and are the group who has all the answers and never causes problems. Again it would be great if one tenth of this were true.

            Our constitution worked for more than 200 years that was UNTIL the PROGRESSIVE movement I needn’t say more

            Checkmate you loose

            The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

            You don’t have to be a Marine to make a difference the only requirement is being truly patriotic and the willingness to back it up!!!

            Libertas inaestimabilis res est
            Semper-Fi

          • macgyver1948

            Force Recon… You have no real idea about how “benevolent” we Liberals think we are, you know ONLY what you are told to think of us. You do not thirty for yourselves so how could you?

            Even though I worked for the Federal Reserve System for a little over 6 ½ years, a long time ago, I still feel there are many weakening aspects to it. We need to have a system in place to control the banks but
            there are some things that need to be re-worked. For many of us Liberals, our eyes are open and so are our minds. It is you guys, within your programming, that you can see only what you are told to see of us. Man that never gets tiring to say that to you. Try thinking for yourselves instead of for others, which you have no
            capacity/ability for, and maybe you would have a chance.

            .

            You say to me here again “It would be nice if you weren’t hypocritical too we’ve discussed this before I could go on but your childish ideas that you know all and are the group who has all the answers and never causes problems. Again it would be great if one tenth of this were true.”

            This is getting inane with you and your kind. I do not “know all” on any subject so I look for what I can add to my knowledge base all the time and I do not ONLY listen to my chosen group/party/whatever to understand what is going on. You saying I “know all” is also another sub-routine from your programming. Get over yourself.

            You add “Our constitution worked for more than 200 years that was UNTIL the PROGRESSIVE movement I needn’t say more”. Yes, our Constitution
            can work best when greed doesn’t take over the workings of the Government as it so much does by your Tea Party controlled GOP and others. The need for regulations was primarily born because of that
            greed and the Founders warnings.

            Then like the spoiled little kid who cannot stand to be wrong you again say “Checkmate you loose” to me. Do you know how funny you are in your delusions with that? You own nothing, not even your own mind and
            you are still to chicken to find out if you could be wrong. LOL.

            This is so ridiculous with you and your kind who will not accept how other Americans have the right, Constitutionally, to believe and speak as they choose. We may ultimately want the same things but you will not allow yourself to know that. Good little Tea Party Marine that you are. I accept your right to believe as you do equal to mine, as any American should, so why can’t you be more American about it?

            Force Recon… You should remember that this site’s policy contains the phrases “Comment Policy: We encourage an open discussion with a wide range of
            viewpoints, even extreme ones, but we will not tolerate racism, profanity or slanderous comments toward the author(s) or comment participants. Make your case passionately, but civilly. Please don’t stoop to name calling…”. It is on every article page.

            It seems you and your kind cannot be either civil or Constitutional with those who do not agree with you. How can inquiring adults learn about differing views if all we have here is your childish and policy ignoring ways? Did you learn about rules and policies as a Marine or now that you are out is it only the thoughts and beliefs that match your that are ok? It seems that way with you and your kind so all I can say is you need to learn want both Americanism and Liberty are
            really about.

            LOL – “Checkmate you loose” – LOL What a joke… :-)

          • Vis Fac

            Yeah Mac everything to you is a big joke. I pointed out several flaws of liberal tenet and you having either no interest of common sense fail to recognize any of them for what they are. You are merely a Sheeple led around by your masters and yes you cannot and don’t think for yourselves

            You are hopelessly enamored with the propaganda you have eaten and to continue to rationalize with a irrational person as you is futile.

            I will leave you with these truisms spoken my those who have had influence on the masses You be the judge of the content. Then deny their validity.

            Yeah I’d say you’re the loser.

            “If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The
            lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus
            becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.” Dr. Paul Joseph Goebbels 10/29/1897 – 5/1/1945 Minister of Propaganda Nazi Germany

            “The best way to take control over a people and control
            them utterly is to take a little of their freedom at a time, to erode rights by a thousand tiny and almost imperceptible reductions. In this way the people
            will not see those rights and freedoms being removed until past the point at which these changes cannot be reversed.” – Adolf Hitler

            “By means of shrewd lies unremittingly repeated, it is
            possible to make people believe that heaven is hell – and hell heaven. The greater the lie, the more readily it will be believed.” Adolf Hitler Mein Kampf

            This is the mantra of liberalism Mac Your liberalism
            Yes indeed check mate we are not playing games the future of our nation is at stake and you think it’s a game how pathetic of you!!!

            You don’t have to be a Marine to make a difference the only requirement is being truly patriotic and the willingness to back it up!!!

            Libertas inaestimabilis res est
            Semper-Fi

          • macgyver1948

            Force Recon… Not everything to me is a big joke. People like you are but since the little bush admin things from then are no joke with how he and his advisors screwed us to even today. Obama is doing the best any president can with the stuff he inherited but he too makes mistakes.

            Nice of you to quote Hitler. He too didn’t believe in equal rights and liberty unless you are all about him. Suites you to a Tea…

            Why are we still doing this? I do not believe a word you say and I know you are not believing me, you will not even try to find out if you could be wrong so that is one of your greatest weaknesses. Live with the delusions that you cannot be wrong all you want, I do not care
            any more. Continue to retort mostly with insults and you show your real emotional age – maybe kindergarten.

            I keep telling you have you have no credible when you tell people things about them that they know aren’t true so what does that say about your IQ? This is a major why I continue to “LOL” you so wake up to that. You are the poster child for the BS Tea Propaganda
            and the kind of weak-minded dude Tea wants to carry on for them. Good job there dude. Gee, I really never use the word “dude” but for some reason it fits you, LOL.

            You say here “This is the mantra of liberalism Mac Your liberalism Yes indeed check mate we are not playing games the future of our nation is at stake and you think it’s a game how pathetic of you!!!”…

            Hey dude, thanks again for telling me how I think and feel with “…the future of our nation is at stake and you think it’s a game how pathetic of you!!!”…”. Here again I ask you “DON’T YOU EVER GET TIRED OF BEING WRONG???”. I do not think that is a joke, just your pathetic hypocrisies and anti-Constitutional nature but that I know is due to your programming. It is way past time to allow others the right to think for themselves, as much as you would like for yourself, and for you to no longer tell others what they think since you haven’t that ability. God did not touch you with that
            talent/ability and I wish all on your side who do that learn how foolish they sound when they do it. That Right propaganda tactic does not work when those you tell (what they think/feel/believe) know they do not. Get over yourself already DUDE and stop replying.

            I would really hate to be in a religious exchange with you if you are as fanatic and unrelenting and unforgiving about that as you are in your chosen politics. I can see your attitude with religion – “I
            can’t be wrong so you have to be” as you are with politics. Give the world a break already because other countries are seeing and talking the chance in America for the worse with Tea. Obama’s image
            is being helped by the Tea image and this TPGOP Shutdown is a worsening effect. WOW…

            HEY DUDE, STOP REPLYING…

          • Vis Fac

            Are you that thick skulled you don’t know why I quoted Hitler? You don’t see the similarity of the DUMBOCRITIC party with the Nazi Party and ODUMBO’S “Iron handedness on ODUMBOCARE spying on Americans using the IRS to interfere with political groups and the usurpation of our rights. Are you that naive or just plain brainwashed,

            Rest assured I have no delusions you do I have seen plenty recognized that what has occurred in other country’s is occurring here and now.

            If you feel insulted then perhaps you should be for you are not a responsible American. You are a parasitic leech living off the sweat of others you support living beyond ones means and have no financial responsibility.

            If you cry out at the murder of innocent children in school and at the same time embrace state sanctioned murder of innocent children via Planned Parenthood you are a HYPOCRITE.

            If you blame inanimate objects for what sick people do than do nothing tangible to stop it while treating law abiding citizens as criminals you are a moron.

            So stop pretending to be benevolent we both know you are anything but !!!

            You don’t have to be a Marine to make a difference the only requirement is being truly patriotic and the willingness to back it up!!!

            Libertas inaestimabilis res est
            Semper-Fi

          • macgyver1948

            Force Recon… You start your inane rant with “Are you that thick skulled you don’t know why I quoted Hitler? You don’t see the similarity of the DUMBOCRITIC party with the Nazi Party and ODUMBO’S “Iron handedness on ODUMBOCARE spying on Americans using the IRS
            to interfere with political groups and the usurpation of our rights. Are you that naive or just plain brainwashed”.

            Do people have to be “thicked skulled” if they do not agree with you? No, I just do not see it your ways but I very much see the “similarity of the Tea party with the Nazi Party”. Just like I see it with the John Birch Society, Tea predecessor. If you are against Civil Rights as they are I would say that about you too.

            Still with the childish name calling. You just cannot control the little boy mentality in you, can you?

            “spying” on Americans huh. Which little GOP president just before Obama, along with Home Land Security, allowed eves dropping on all our phone calls without court orders, you know , search warrants? Do you really know what ObamaCare (*see below when you get there) is about or are you just allowing the Tea to work your mouth as their words come through? There are problems in ObamaCare that need to come out, for sure, the TP Inspired GOP things very much to start with and that includes the GOP Mandate. Did the TP not tell you about that? I am concerned with how ObamaCare might affect Medicare.

            Then you go to “If you cry out at the murder of innocent children in school and at the same time embrace state sanctioned murder of innocent children via Planned Parenthood you are a HYPOCRIT”. Loo
            DUDE, I told you before I am personally against abortion, always have been, so why do you resort to using that tired rant on me again? Nothing better to come up with you need to repeat yourself as you
            ignore what I have already told you. That and other things. WOW you are a DUDE.

            Then you rant with “If you blame inanimate objects for what sick people do than do nothing tangible to stop it while treating law abiding citizens as criminals you are a moron”. What “inanimate objects” are you accusing me of blaming? WOW you are so much more blindly
            programmed than I think. What “ law abiding citizens” am I treating as criminals”? WOW, you are so repeatedly and blindly DO-Looped to your propaganda modules, your leach, it is so sad and
            pitiful where you are concerned. You know nothing about Liberals or anyone else with how you blindly go where your ‘leach’ leads you.

            Your credibility has been less than zero for a while but it continues to fall further downnnnnn!!!!

            * I know you will deny and deny and deny, etc, because of your “leach” but live with this because it is spreading. Video and more at

            http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/10/23/1249954/-GOP-Rep-Freaks-Out-when-Confronted-with-Proof-of-ACA-Success?detail=email

            AND
            http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/10/22/2815961/cnn-anchor-slams-gop-rep-rooting-obamacares-failure/

            888

            Report: The Kochs, A Nazi Past, Oil & The Foundation of The Right

            http://unknownjournal.wordpress.com/2010/10/06/%E2%96%BC-report-the-kochs-their-nazi-past-american-oil-the-foundation-of-republican-ideology/

          • macgyver1948

            Force Recon… LOL. So you do not like that, those “incorrect internet BS!!”. LOL. Where are we? Not in your realm.

            I could show you so many sites detailing the nature of Tea Party and their leaders, and associations, but you would probably go back to sleep and in your dream world you would rationalize how wrong they have to be because they come from someone on the Left. How could you be wrong??? LOL LOL LOL…

            I mentioned the other day that the KKK and Neo-Nazi groups want to join The Tea Party because they have so much in common. Outwardly that can’t happen because Tea would lose so many of its members. But guess what, just as Tea Party want to publicly dissociate themselves from the JBS behind the scenes they are all in it with them. Tea party comes from the John Birch Society. Go on enjoying what owns so many in the GOP and it doesn’t stop with the GOP.

            Where there is smoke there is more than just fire at times. There is so much out there to see who and what the Tea Party is and who they come from. Do your own research, you say you are good at that. I bet you
            can find so much more.

            Go ahead Force Recon, deny all you want because you can’t be wrong or whatever. But there is too much to listen to the denials. Continue to drown in your
            Right/GOP and Tea think. Learn who you are defending and then you will know more of what you really are if you still defend them.

            http://www.democratichub.com/posts/4850/default.aspx

            http://arthuride.wordpress.com/tag/fred-c-koch/

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Birch_Society

            http://www.city-data.com/forum/politics-other-controversies/1200312-john-birch-society-koch-brothers-beck.html

            For
            the fun of it”

            http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=17630

            http://koch-industries-organized-crime.blogspot.com/2011/11/who-are-koch-brothers-and-are-they.html

            https://www.facebook.com/WrappedInTheFlagByClaireConner/posts/604815349539791

            …and on and on and on, etc…

            LET’s ADD THIS:

            Report: The Kochs, A Nazi Past, Oil & The Foundation of The Right

            http://unknownjournal.wordpress.com/2010/10/06/%E2%96%BC-report-the-kochs-their-nazi-past-american-oil-the-foundation-of-republican-ideology/

            So, you do not care for my opinion. Does that mean I should not expect a birthday card from you next year? LOL

          • Robert Messmer

            Please tell me how Obama giving guns to Mexican Drug Cartels is in the best interest of America? Arming international terrorists? Supporting the Muslim Brotherhood? Expanding the Patriot Act? Threatening to start another illegal war against Syria? (Thank you Mr. Putin for at least delaying that.) Drone killing American citizens without a trial? Getting authority to detain American citizens without a warrant, without a trial, without an attorney, indefinitely? Interjecting himself into local police matters when he didn’t know any facts?
            Prudent spending? He is on track to more than double the national deb ($10 Trillion when he took office) by the time this term is over. Raising debt limit will not add to debt–but it did.

          • macgyver1948

            Robert Messmer… Oh, I do not know, whjey are you asking me Obama’s intentions for “giving guns to Mexican Drug Cartels is in the best interest of America?” Obama did not consult me so how could I know what reasons he may have had? Why are you using a Right Wing tactic to get me to explain something I wasn’t sure of at the time or mentioned in a long while or even had anything to do with? We do
            know those situations were started during the little bush’s term but under a different name. Did the little bush consult you at the time?

            You say here “Drone killing American citizens without a trial?” WOW, you are something. I am opposed to anything against American citizens, anyone actually, without due process. As for Drones. For so long in Human History there have been advancements in technology, weapons too. As humans got better at them they used them more and more. Again the little bush had them for use and did. I am not necessarily for them but it will depend on their use- the justification and the circumstances. Remember we used Adam bombs, which were advancements in technology at the time, to end a war.

            You are something. I am also fearful of the spending but we need to do it more prudently than we have been. The little bush got us into his immoral wars and that is spending that is still costing us. Thee are
            all kinds of mistakes by our government but we cannot just cut the h*ell our of our budgets without compassionate and prudent measures such as what the TPGOIP and mafia like pledges the TP and the GOP have signed are demanding.

            Be smarter about who you align yourself with.

        • Robert Messmer

          Exactly how would the funding for, oh say, NIH would have hurt the economy? If true then maybe we need to eliminate NIH as a government funded entity since funding it hurts the economy. Besides the fact that only @ 17% of the government was shut down, give us one link, just one, where the Tea Party or the GOP, or the House issued an order closing Mount Rushmore, kick people out of the private homes, anything to support the claim that the shutdown was the fault of anyone other than Obama. Hey how about a link showing where Bill Clinton, another Democrat, had tourists detained in the Grand Canyon by armed personnel because of the shutdown on his watch? Pretty hard to “compromise” when Obama and Reid stated many times on television, ok not just some right-wing nut site, we will not talk to the Republicans until AFTER we get everything I want. Hello???compromise means everyone gives up a little something.

    • rbrooks

      are you related to alfred stork?

  • rbrooks

    i agree with your assessment of the mandate.

    but, the country, as a whole, has supported mandated insurance for about 40 years. it seems odd that so many now denounce that mandate.

    where were all of you when the first mandate was forced on us?

    you will never get the fanatics on this site to ever admit to any history that shows their icons as being anything but saints.

    • fahkir1

      Your first name should be Mel, cause your damned funny. Now, go crawl back under your rock.

      • rbrooks

        you must be a liberal, eh.

        too dumb to understand. leaving you to resort to name calling.

        • fahkir1

          Wow, you are actually stupider than I gave you credit for. No, never could relax my morals enough to become a liberal. AND, it’s isn’t name calling. I was wondering if your first name was Mel because your funny, Like Mel Brooks?

          • macgyver1948

            fahkir1… I seriously hope you will some day realize your morals are helping the Right to fight for the big corporations, actually all affluent, against any who isn’t among them. So, if you aren’t one of the affluent or a big corporation you are helping to fight against yourself. Enjoy while you can. :-). t wanted to make sure you understood.

          • fahkir1

            Save your liberal tripe for someone who might fall for your lame BS.

          • macgyver1948

            LOL… It is with that I will not fall for the RIghts’ “tripe” but you do well for them. LOL

          • Sadie McGrady Lopez

            The LOONY TUNES DEMS are in bed with them too…you are just too stupid & brainwashed to see it!!

          • macgyver1948

            Sadie McGrady Lopez… Are you old enough to be up this late and to be on here considering how you relate to people who do not see things the same ways as you? You do not know me, or the Democrats, but yet in
            your childish ways you act as if you do. This, of you, is the typical. Anyway, I never said the Democrats are perfect. So, of all the current existing parties, who do you think is the ”perfect” party? You would have to really imagine to come up with one.

          • Zeus The Zipper

            You are a libtard crackpot, and know nutin’, buddy…you are worst poster on site!!

          • macgyver1948

            LOL. Wow, the programming is spreading like Cancer… Good for you there Zees. LOL…

          • Deerinwater

            He knows went an ole dawg won’t hunt , which seems to be more than you know my friend.

            All you folks are doing in attempting to hyjack a train, finding yourselves without one to carry you where you wish to go.

            Buy a ticket for Christ sakes and sit down and enjoy the ride ~or get off and walk..

          • rbrooks

            the right wing fascists want to ride. they want to be the only ones that get to ride.

            and they want you to pay for it.

      • Deerinwater

        it’s ~ “damn funny” and I don’t know who “Mel” is. ~ The only thing that might have crawled out from under a rock is you, ~ I don’t believe that we’ve met, I am Deerinwater . So what make you crawl out and look around today?

        rbooks lives in the real world with a grasp of history and current event.

        • fahkir1

          You should change your name to Deerinheadlights.

          • Deerinwater

            You must be a Tea Bagger to sport with my handle.

            It’s Deerinwater ~ thank you.

    • macgyver1948

      rbrooks… Yes, I know the Mandate has been around for a long time and since I first read about it I couldn’t like it because it is so unfair. It is extortion. “If you do not buy insurance, even if you cannot afford either the premiums or the co-pays/deductibles, we will fine you until you get it anyway”. Then they bring the IRS in, the scariest bunch that is not a secret intelligence agency – (or are they below the surface?). It sounds like one of the greatest con jobs in favor
      of the Insurance industry with help from their buddies in Congress, so mostly on the Right. The Mandate is an Insurance Company’s wet dream.

      I worked for Walmart for several years in their Home Office campus. I know there are a great number of associates – hourly people, what they call employees, who choose not to take the insurance because they cannot afford the payroll deductions. This goes against the great image Walmart wants the world to know of them, they need the world to think they love their associates, but people need to do what is best for themselves and their families but that is not being a team player to so many big corporations. I will never like this kind
      of bullying (well, actually any kind of bullying), be it a Mandate
      like this from the Government friends of the Insurance Industry or from Employers. Let’s get the Mandate out of ObamaCare and never bring it up again.

      If you are right about the Mandate being first around 40 or so years ago I was in the Air Force during Vietnam. I bet I had other things on my mind at that time but I am trying to fight it since the GOP tried it in their failed Health Care attempt in 1992 and I am happy I haven’t been living in Massachusetts when Governor Romney put into effect that GOP version called RomneyCare with the Mandate…

      I might be so idiotic to wonder why the Tea Party and the GOP are so against it until I realize whose program ObamaCare is and whose name is on it. Obamacare is trying to make things more affordable for any who cannot afford health insurance, even as President Ronald Reagan suggested, and to also keep the greedy insurance companies from “doing business as usual” against us.

      You end this with “you will never get the fanatics on this site to ever admit to any history that shows their icons as being anything but saints”.

      I really do get that, believe me and since coming here I get hit with all kinds of their nasty and insulting retorts. It is as though they are programmed to deny all history if it adversely affects the Right’s agendas. Sad, isn’t it”? In computer programming there is a thing called, depending on the language, a ‘do-loop’ or a ‘do until’ and in this case the programming is “historical truth be gone – refer only to your programmed agenda”.

      Thanks for your comment.

      • rbrooks

        mandatory auto insurance.

        you must buy insurance from a private comp[any or face fines and jail time.

        the country allowed a precedent to be set.

        a bit late to complain now.

        we should repeal all mandatory insurance.

        • macgyver1948

          rbrooks… I know, there are so many on the border line of things and some are way beyond the border line. Over the years I have seen people who would murder others if there was no law against murder (“I don’t
          want to take the chance of getting caught and punished for something I should have the right to do either in the heat of the moment or because of something emotional”). Some laws are just needed as
          guide lines for the good guys (like locks on doors) and some are just needed.

          If we repeal all mandatory insurance, and I feel we should, but then the responsible should be esponsible financially. Those without medical insurance by choice, not by financial need, who need medical care of
          any kind should have to pay for themselves. The Hospitals should not have to carry that burden and neither should doctors.

          I especially feel self-inflicted diseases, such as from the poisons of tobacco, should be all on the heads of the self-inflicted. Second hand infected people, the CDC says over 49,000 Americans die annually, not to mention the many suffering from it, should be exempt
          but maybe the people they caught it from should have to pay all medical expenses, including for the infected kids of smoking parents.Many of those responsible for causing traffic accidents will have a hard time paying the damages for their victims and the victims for
          themselves without auto insurance. And then there are the many diseases we get from the additives and substitutes in the processed foods as well as from the legal pharmaceuticals we can take (Yeah, The FDA is on our side – BS). Who should be legally responsible for the medical expenses with those? No laws or regulations on Corporations and this planet may be a total waste rock already, if the greedy and unethical of the Corporations are left to their own devices. It goes on and on…

          See where this could lead? It’s a mess. Throughout history evolving law has kept many good guys from doing wrong things and put many bad guys in a cage or worse if society was skilled enough to catch them where little happened before the laws. Good Ethics and morals is when we do not do the wrong thing even when no one is looking or there are no laws to punish us. Religion alone is no test for that and if it was there would never be any who claims to be of a religion doing the “wrong” thing.

          • rbrooks

            social laws, for society, or how ever you wish to phrase that, are necessary.

            mandating, forcing, the public to purchase a product or service from a private company is a bit different.

            i am not against socialized health care, like canada or costa rica, but mandating in this manner will only make the insurance company’s rich(er).

            it is what happened with auto insurance.

            if the tea party, gop, conservatives, etc., want to make this a voluntary health care program, then no one should be required to provide care to anyone that refused to join & can not pay.

            nor should any insurance company be required to accept them ‘after’ the need arises.

            ahca will eventually be a single payer system and probably be a mandatory pay roll deduction.

            personally, i think the govt should have just expanded medicare and medicaid.

            mythology is simply a means of validation and justification.

          • macgyver1948

            rbrooks… I know there are differences between those kinds of laws, social laws and those forcing us to buy a something from a corporation. I am not one who would defend corporations and their selling and marketing
            habits if they are imposing like they are in the Mandate. I do not trust marketing techniques for so many products.

            I was only showing the possible negative occurrences if we didn’t have some laws. I think the idea President Ronald Reagan had when he suggested National Health Insurance was because there are so many who go without it and therefore get no health care, many avoid going for health care when they need to. Some do with hospitals giving charity services but that is a small percentage. I wonder if Reagan was thinking to include something such as the Mandate. I want the Mandate out of ObamaCare and so did Obama when it was imposed on Obamacare by the GOP.

            I strongly believe anything with attachments to Obama, and perhaps Democrats in general, the Tea Party will create hell from it and push the GOP to do as they are told about it to expose it as evil. I believe this because the Tea Party is in existence, as was their predecessors – the John Birch Society, to defend and protect the big corporations at all costs at the expense of the rest of us. Obama will never be just for the corporations so they hate him. So was President Eisenhower not totally in favor of the big corporations,
            but he wanted them to prosper because no nation could without a prosper without successful business. The JBS accused Eisenhower of being a Communist.

            Doesn’t that sound like a familiar tactic used by the Tea Party to call those who will not totally agree with them? “If you do not totally agree with us you are anything that would be against Americanism”. All
            this because to them Freedom Of Speech is a guarantee only if you agree with them. It is funny, Hitler and the Nazis felt the same about Free Speech and when they stole the government after losing the
            election they eliminated Free Speech for all who weren’t of them. And that was after the Nazis used Free Speech, along with their criminal activities, in the Campaign process. Often times I get the same
            feeling regarding Freedom Of Religion with the Tea Party.

            So many Liberals feel the Constitution should apply equally for all. So, who are the real Patriots here?

            Mythology has been used by the ruling classes throughout human history to help them control the masses and that goes for the religious as well and the
            political control, which was often the same. For example, the use of demi-gods, with one mortal parent and one god parent, was a very popular tactic for that control in ancient times along with other methods. We still see flavors of that today.

        • LZ

          No rbrooks, you’ve got it wrong. I live in NYS where auto insurance is mandated. However, I can name any number of people off the top of my head who do NOT have auto insurance, and they walk around as free as anyone. How do they do that if everyone has to have auto insurance?

          • rbrooks

            here’s your sign.

          • LZ

            Hey…you’re the one who said everyone’s required to have auto insurance, or at least that’s the way I took it. And keep your sign…you need it much more than I do.

          • rbrooks

            you have the typical comprehension problem.

          • LZ

            And I quote, “you must buy insurance from a private company or face fines and jail time”. Your words rbrooks. My point is simply that no one is forced to buy insurance. You are mandated to insure a registered vehicle. Not the same thing. Gee….do you think YOUI can comprehend that??

          • rbrooks

            so you are mandated, forced, to buy insurance from a private company.

            i can see why the gop loves you.

        • Motov

          Not in Wisconsin! You do not have to have auto Insurance in order to get a license and drive.

          • rbrooks

            that law was changed 2 years ago. we now have mandatory insurance in wisconsin.

          • Motov

            Oops, my bad! I moved from Wisconsin to Arkansas in March 2011.

          • rbrooks

            i have property in wisconsin and arkansas. wisconsin used to have the lowest insurance rates.

            they are still much cheaper than arkansas. but it is cheaper to tag in arkansas than wisconsin.

          • Motov

            I lived in Watertown, got outta there before they bombed Hwy 26, and added those stupid “round-abouts” (traffic circles)

          • rbrooks

            we have a number of round-abouts here. several new ones have been added in conway.

            you see those used a lot in europe.

          • Motov

            I first seen traffic circles way back in 1978, When I moved to NJ,…In NJ there were 2 unwritten rules
            1) You have to cut someone off to get on/off it
            2) Expect to be cut off for the same reason.
            I’m glad I no longer live there.
            I’m up here in Batesville these days

          • rbrooks

            i used to live outside of clinton. bought a place out side of pine bluff.

    • Robert Messmer

      I know exactly what you mean! No matter how outrageous Obama is the fanatics will never admit that he is wrong.

      • rbrooks

        you are correct. the fanatics continue to worship their particular political god(s).

        all politicians are crooks.

        nothing will change until the fanatics are able to comprehend that.

        • macgyver1948

          rbrooks. I am not so sure “all” politicians are crooks but so many have price tags on their backs, on both sides, which tends to lead them to do the wrong things.

          Yes, until enough of us make our politicians do the right things (or dump them if they do not) nothing will change and it is not all the faults of the fanatics although they are a huge cause. The fault also lies with those of us who stand back and do nothing even if we want change for the better.

      • macgyver1948

        Robert Messmer… I totally agree and that comes from paying attention to what has been going on.

  • Mama Maria Moskowitz

    ObummerCare just gets worse & worse & more creepy….

    http://nypost.com/2013/10/18/new-taxi-tax-is-obamacare-surcharge/

  • fahkir1

    Great job America. The more we ignore this disaster, AKA obutheadcare, the faster it will go away. If we don’t do a damned thing with it or to it, it will fold like a wet washrag. WE, as the populus, can unfund the damned thing ourselves. I say, GO TO HELL OBUTHEAD. It’s the place you belong!

  • Roy Fredrichsen

    On the other hand, let the Affordable Health Care run its course and burn itsself out so the NEW congress persons can repeal it after the November elections in 2014.

  • Deerinwater

    Well two weeks time is not a long enough period of time to pass sound judgement on any government program. ~ That it’s kickoff was shared with a Government “shutdown” ~ makes this even more apparent. Not to mention the fact, that there are forces in play that have made it their ambition in life to see that it does not work.

    Myself, ~ I’m not so peachy keen on a lot of things that not only government but institutions do in some driven effort to address peoples needs.

    First off, ~ people die! They always have and always will and there is only so much that can be done to prevent it. It is the quality of life that should require the greatest focus.

    People should be permitted to die.

    We have allowed insurance companies to make a high stakes game for profit to fund Americans health care “needs”. ~ To garner enough support to make this “game of odds” possible ~ it was seen possible and wise to tap into something big enough and in large numbers that could “fund such a game”.

    The obvious choice was the “employed” and so working with employers and offering Federal incentives ~ the link between health care and employment was made.~ That the need for health care is not and has never been predicated on employment is chosen to be “ignored”. ~As “funding” seems to supersede the need.

    So here we are, ~ we’ve got the tail wagging the dog already. But that’s okay! as everyone is willing to accept this clever arrangement for as long as it works for enough Americans and supplies both health care and profits to Americans in some Crap Games fashion that permits the insured to hedge bets with opinions and coverage.

    Then here comes Ronnie Reagan ~ with his downsizing and getting the Federal Government off the American people backs! ~ That seemed okay too! ~ we liked that idea as well. ~ Corporate America seen this as Wonderful! ~ and followed suit. ~ A period of great “profit taking” occurred. Honored commitments to the employed laboring class were abridged, slashed, cut, as America downsized across the board. Jobs were lose as leverage buy-outs and sell off’s and outsources became common place.

    This down sizing and job and pension loss didn’t affect enough American’s to make much of an impression at the time as many numbers of American were benefiting from Reagan’s large military build-up. ~ Any opposition or protest at that time was seen as “Sour Grapes” among loafers and slackers that didn’t really want to work.

    Then came, ~ H Bush and the concept of “Free Trade” , ~ and with the help of President Bill Clinton, NAFTA became a reality. ~ which was followed by more American job loss and Trade Imbalance. ~

    So the years roll by ~ and with less employed American comes higher medical cost premiums. ~ In 20 years time, Insurance premiums increased 300% with no sign of slowing down while the number of uninsured Americans rose in numbers.

    Numbers to great to ignore, ~ That the non -insured was helping the insured pay their health care premiums and keep it cost down via incentives originally offered by the Federal Government with Taxes on earning is ignored and forgotten.

    Today, ~ discounted medical cost among the more privileged and well employed is seen as an “Entitlement” having enjoyed this benefit for so very long. ~ It’s not viewed on as a “Free Lunch” but rightful earning.

    I don’t know if the Affordable Health Care act is the answer to this problem of providing a nations people health care or not. ~ I’m not completely convinced. ~ but this disparity could not continue for much longer without some address. ~

    ~ I have faith that it will be worked out in good time ~ while we can be assured there will be innocent victims in our wake. ~ Just try not to be one.

    • franklin Delano

      You are an Abstractionist Deer Get out of the water and wake . You
      will never be able to afford Obama care even though youy are on Welfare . Get a job Quit making other people pay for you.

      • Deerinwater

        I could not get coverage by a carrier before this reform~ turned down twice, ~ I am a independent ~ I smoke and had a record of 3 upper respiratory infecting in 4 years. I suppose that I am a bad risk ~ I was 58 at the time. I’m now 65.

        I don’t know how it would be now. Different I suspect ~ in any case , it’s not about me ~ I’m a Vet ~ a healthy vet that’s been to the VA ~maybe 4 times. ~ to get my bucket of leeches and huge bottle of neproxen for a few dollars.

        I was working down Brownsville way for some time ~ and asked some Vets how the VA services was down there, They said, that you are required to supply your own bucket.

        • Don 2

          Under Obamacare, you’re most likely a candidate for the high risk pool, which by the way, ran out of money some time ago, and is no longer taking on new enrollees. Looks like your SOL.

          • Robert Messmer

            He is, according to his account, being treated by the VA and therefore not subjected to ACA. Even if the VA stops since he is 65 he is eligible for Medicare and still escapes ACA.

          • Deerinwater

            Maybe. at 65 I’ve become very use to that.

    • Don 2

      Did you here about the accountant who had his new annual out-of-pocket deductible increased to $28,000 under Obamacare? Yeah, ole Barack waved the maximum deductible.

      Did you hear that hospitals and doctors are already starting to demand these deductibles be paid upfront before treatment so that they do not get stuck with your bill?

  • Vis Fac

    Actually SMELLY has the combined IQ of Pb and Hg and is ten times more dangerous Smelly is as sharp as a marble and AVOIDS answering direct questions asking him to support his agenda.

    Since SMELLY REFUSES to answer we can discern he is a FRAUD a PREVARICATOR and a COWARD.

    Libertas inaestimabilis res est
    Semper-Fi

  • Tommy cunningham

    I will have the government in court when they try and fine me. Regardless of out come I will never pay the fine or be told what Product/service I have to buy just for he mere fact that I exist! I’m a American and I’m free, bring it on Government, you’ll have to hang me, wont comply. I declare my Independence

    • Robert Messmer

      Then you will likely wind up in jail, not for not buying insurance nor for not paying the fine, but for “Contempt of Court”.

      • Motov

        Prisoners are treated better than citizens, presuming you don’t end up in some FEMA camp.

  • Cole Johnson

    I am not going to pay the damn fine either! I have had enough of owebummers lies and deceit! Do not comply with this UnConstitituional healthcare! It is wrong, illegal, and the destruction of America! perpetrated by the biggest liar to ever hold an office!

    • Motov

      Who the hell do they think they are? They cannot take away our GOD given rights!!! UnConstitutional laws go in the same place where the moronic idiots who wrote, signed this POS legislation! The CESSPOOL!

  • Don 2

    Best estimates are about 20,000 have signed up for Obamacare, while 200,000 have signed up for a one-way, no return, commercial flight to mars.

    • Motov

      I’ll sign up for Ganymede,…LOL,… It will be farther away, and then I can watch Jupiter.

  • Deerinwater

    What will most likely happen is this new legislation will bring to the market place new products.

    That is much of what any legislation is all about and what makes politician be seen as powerful.

    The wealthy and the poor are both created out of legislation that opens and closed doors of opportunity.

    • Don 2

      The greatest healthcare system in world history – America’s – is being torn down and replaced with a socialist model that has led, everywhere it has ever been implemented, to inferior care, tremendous loss of freedom, increased costs, bureaucratic care rationing (aka “death panels”) and vastly expanded government control in every area of life. And yet, if you oppose Obamacare, you’re vilified for hating poor children. And you’re a racist. ~ David Kupelian

  • Don 2

    Just when you think that you’ve heard the last of ACORN founder and community organizer Wade Rathke, he pops up again, this time associated with Obamacare’s “Navigator” drive, or shall we say, Democrat party enrollment drive..

    http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/361442/acorn-offshoot-act-obamacare-navigator-alec-torres

  • Motov

    With legislation like this, being in prison will save money on health care.

  • Jim B

    More than half the youth and college grads don’t have jobs, the others are waiting tables and probably don’t quality to file taxes because of such a low income. It’s like trying to get blood from a rock, ain’t happening.
    If all hope rides with them to pay for the ageing, those on welfare, illegals and alike, forgetaboudit! What was stupid thinking anyway!

  • Don 2

    Just heard a report that as of Friday, New York State has not been able to sign up a single person for Obamacare.