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From Terror To Telescreens

May 13, 2010 by  

From Terror To Telescreens

 “There was of course no way of knowing whether you were being watched at any given moment. How often, or on what system, the Thought Police plugged in on any individual wire was guesswork. It was even conceivable that they watched everybody all the time. But at any rate they could plug in your wire whenever they wanted to. You had to live—did live, from habit that became instinct—in the assumption that every sound you made was overheard, and, except in darkness, every movement scrutinized.”
— George Orwell,
1984.

New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg wasted no time in capitalizing on the fear of the populace in the wake of Time Square bomb plot. Less than two weeks after the “bomb” was found and disarmed, Bloomberg was touring London’s “ring of steel”—some 12,000 security cameras that blanket the city’s underground train system.

Why? He’s ready to ramp up New York City’s own ring of steel by adding to the 4,000 surveillance cameras already there. I say “already there” rather than “already watching” because Bloomberg himself has said about half of the cameras don’t work, forcing authorities to rely on police patrols and random bag searches.

Bloomberg told reporters that with street crime low, a stronger surveillance system can help deter and track down terrorists.

“There is always the threat of terrorism,” Bloomberg told The New York Daily News. “That’s what really this is all about, in being able to deter, prevent—and if God forbid something happens, apprehend—the people that caused it.”

Bloomberg acknowledged what he called “very serious” concerns about civil liberties and the use of surveillance cameras. But he said the threat of global terrorism had forced authorities to make adjustments, according to the Tri-City Herald.

Serious concerns? Those same serious concerns he acknowledged back in 2007 when he announced the installation of the first 4,000 cameras?

“We just have to do something here to make the city safer. Sadly, it is a little bit of an infringement on your rights,” Bloomberg told a news conference in October, 2007, according Reuters.

New Yorkers and those who will visit that nanny state should be the ones with serious concerns. Bloomberg is working fast and furious to control every aspect of the populace—banning smoking, monitoring fat intake and now watching their every move.

It all seems quite orchestrated. The “bomb,” as Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano said, didn’t look very sophisticated. It wasn’t. It consisted of two five-gallon gasoline cans, three propane tanks, two toy clocks, a couple of M-88 firecrackers and a non-explosive fertilizer.

Accused bomber Faisal Shahzad, reportedly an adherent of members of the Pakistani Taliban, is said to have attended a terrorist school in Pakistan. If so it’s a safe bet he flunked. As one explosives expert said, “I would venture to say, he’s not the valedictorian of the bomb school.”

The whole operation was amateurish, from the way the car was illegally parked and drew immediate suspicion, to the toy clock in the window that was readily visible, to the bomb that stood little chance of exploding. Add to that the failure of the United States security apparatus to notice Shahzad’s travel to and from Pakistan even though he was on a no-fly list and it seems another false flag terror operation was underway.

It almost mirrors the underwear bomber story, which we wrote about last January. You can read those articles here, and here.

Bloomberg is so interested in keeping us safe… safe from secondhand smoke, safe from trans-fat and safe from car bombers… that he’s willing to make concessions with “a little bit of an infringement on your rights.”

It’s just one more step toward fascism and a tightening of the grip the state has on its subjects. The first steps began long ago. And then 9/11 came along—an incident in which the evidence that it was an inside job has become overwhelming (see www.911truth.org, www.ae911truth.org and Google “rediscover 911” and “nano-thermite”)—and we got the USA PATRIOT Act and the suspension of habeas corpus.

Then the underwear bomber came along and we got naked body scanners in airports.

The Times Square bomber came along and we’re going to get surveillance cameras all over New York City.

As a commenter on one blog site posted: “One incompetent Muslim bomber-$400. Closed circuit television cameras all over New York City-$$millions. Coming martial law-Priceless.

In Orwell’s 1984, Winston knew he could escape Big Brother’s view after dark because the telescreens couldn’t see in darkness. Orwell predicted the surveillance but he couldn’t predict night vision technology.

Where will you go to escape Big Brother’s view?

Bob Livingston

is an ultra-conservative American and author of The Bob Livingston Letter™, founded in 1969. Bob has devoted much of his life to research and the quest for truth on a variety of subjects. Bob specializes in health issues such as nutritional supplements and alternatives to drugs, as well as issues of privacy (both personal and financial), asset protection and the preservation of freedom.

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  • s c

    Bloomberg, the consummate progressive, will use the idea of ‘peace and safety’ to continue his part in the building of Fortress Amerika. Ask someone who lived through WWII. In particular, ask a Japanese American who was “volunteered” to live in an American concentration camp.
    When concentration camp weapons are turned INWARD, you’re not being guarded. You are being WATCHED. Our government doesn’t trust us. More and more, we have no reason to trust our government.
    You can always find a Bloomberg in government. Like a Quisling prototype, he will seem a role model to some. To the rest of us, he might as well be a concentration camp guard. When you know the difference between being a guard and an inmate, you know what you you need to know, America. Watch, listen, think, compare notes and be prepared.

    • Ray

      Bloomberg is a socialist, an all-city thinker, who can’t think beyond his nose.

      If it’s true that “As NYC goes, so goes the nation” is true, the United States is going to hell in a handbasket.

      Bloomberg – you’re an amateur. Quit acting like the czar of a bigger government or nation.

      • Anthony

        NO – just can’t think beyond his own wallet.

    • Another Voice

      We are always being watched no matter where we are. As long as we’re not doing anything wrong we don’t have any problems. Those security cameras have helped police apprehend a lot of bad guys, though.

      I’m surprised to hear a big conservative like Livingston complain about the cameras when the conservatives are always barking about how our government’s number one priority is to keep the country safe from terrorism. How on earth can cities beef up homeland security without more (and better) security cameras?

      • JC

        So it’s ok to let government put us under surveillance because “I have nothing to hide”?
        Well I see it a little differently….having nothing to hide does not diminish my right to privacy, nor does it authorize the elected representatives who work for me to put me under a microscope and scrutinize any aspect of my life until I’ve actually committed a crime.
        I don’t know if you’re old enough to remember it, but it’s called the American Way. Live and let live.

      • independant thinker

        I like the idea of using security cameras to catch terrorists and other criminals. I like my privacy even more so am opposed to the increased use of them to moniter our every movement.

        Right now the cameras will be used for crime control next “week” they will be used to monitor your shopping habits then your eating habits then the rest of your life. The powers that be will use this information against you for that is the nature of the system. Give up a little freedom or privacy to the government and they will seek to take more and more.

      • DamnYankee32

        Another Voice,
        I disagree. All one need to do is be in the wrong place at the wrong time, and you can be caught up in whatever is going on. Now you are not presumed innocent until proven guilty, but you must prove you are innocent before the government can prove you are guilty, whether or not you are guilty. It WILL only get worse as this administration is so afraid of dissent. If one stands up for what one believes,whether it is politics, religion, or economucs, and it is contrary to what this administration believes and want you to believe,you are in grave danger. I believe in the axiom, ” If you don’t stand for something, you will fall for anything”.

      • http://victorbarney@embarqmail.com Victor L Barney

        It sounds very likely to me that Bloomberg is the “consummate progressive” and therefore anything that he is says needs to be looked at more closely by everybody!

      • Cynthia

        The one called Voice say’s that “as long as we are not doing anything wrong”:…… Yes, I almost fell for this at one point in the Bush administration.

        What propoganda this is! Now consider this! There is complete lawlessness in this land and in this administration!

        Who decides what is wrong here? If we pray or mention the precious name of Jesus are we doing wrong?

        If we want a Big Mac is this wrong? More salt a litte grease a big fat ice cream treat!

        This administration is intent on making everything wrong. Propoganda! “As long as you are not doing anything wrong”….?
        Think before you approve any infringements upon your person.
        Wanna use a regular light bulb? Have a certain frig? These are all becoming crimes.
        Please voice, and others who think they are safe as law biding Americans,THINK!

        This is all about fear and control! Forcing small business out of
        the “capitalist” society! and instituting communist values.( an oxymoron)
        McDonalds made a brilliant move! They are donating so much a bucket to the Cancer Society! Now, what so called nasty comrade progressive could scream about this?
        Innovative ideas of intelligent thinking people will land this take over on it’s ugly head!

        Don’t fall for the lies but look at what the underlying purpose is!

        God Bless America!

        • Norman

          You have it right Cynthia, and NONE of ths loss of liberties started until the “Messiah” Obama cheated lied and bought his way into the presidency with the aid of Illegal Mexican votes. Why do you think there are so many dummycrats that want amnesty for all of the 26 million illegals. (The govt. says 13 million, but they lie about everything so double it and maybe even triple it.) The Obama regime is so coprrupt, they can’t remember their last lies. We must get them ALL out of office before the downfall of the entire country.

      • Norman

        When people that oppose better security, it usually means they are actively involved in doing something they shouldn’t be doing. I would like to see cameras in EVERY senator and congressman’s offices, and videotapes of their “clandestine” Meetings. Maybe then we would know just who is trying to overthrow this country, and throw their A**** out of the door, bodily.

      • Mike

        I love this statement that all those in favor of bigger government and eliminating sections of our Bill of rights always use, that “if we are not doing anything wrong we have nothing to fear.”
        The trouble with that thinking is that it is always the government that determines what is right or wrong. What is “right” today is wrong tomorrow so we are always in jeopardy of doing something “wrong”.
        That is why our founding fathers gave us a Constitution; to protect us from government.
        Also the writers asinine statement that government cannot protect us without cameras everywhere is pathetic.
        Government is not interested in protecting us, only in controlling us. That is what government is all about and the sooner we realize it the better off we will be. “We have seen the enemy and he is us.”
        Mike

      • indigo

        Cameras don’t work according to ex CIA official
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AIbBGi1gjo

      • kanewolves

        Spot on! In order to have our personal liberties and the pleasure of walking around without fear, we need to identify people who would do us harm. We’re all people watchers by nature so if you’re not doing something you shouldn’t be doing what what’s the fuss?

      • H. Hoeke

        “We have nothing to fear if we didn’t do anything.” The government created these conditions in the first place, by applying Hegelian dialectics — thesis — antithesis — synthesis! And voila, a new way has been found to control everyone! These tactics are being used to gradually enslave us. Remember the frog in the lukewarm water? Before he is aware, he will be cooked!

      • Patrick

        Well, “Another Voice,” by describing conservatives as “barking” you apparently see them as dogs. Okay, this dog will bark on the general subject of security. If it is the federal government’s role to ensure the security of the nation, vis-a-vis the external terrorist threat, it has the responsibility to seal the border. Note that I did not say “close the border.” The potential for infiltration by terrorists through our un-guarded borders is extremely high. At this point, our southern border is virtually non-existent from Imperial Beach, CA all the way to Brownsville, TX. Yes, there are fences here and there, but no cohesive and contiguous structure exists to prevent illegal border crossers from gaining entry to this nation. The Border Patrol and local law enforcement are performing above and beyond what they should have to, but the numbers of illegals are too great and too frequent. We need a substantial physical barrier, manned and maintained 24/7, and a buffer zone of apprehension that extends for some distance inside the fence that is monitored by seismic detectors and surveilled by drone aircraft. Along the physical barrier at the border there should be actual manned watch towers supported by garrisons stationed along the length of the border structure. A couple of army divisions should be dedicated to border security. The border should be kept open at the normal ports of entry and strict adherence to entry and immigration laws enforced. If this is done, it will go a long way toward obviating the need for extensive deployment of surveillance cameras in our cities. Generally speaking, in terms of securing our country against the threat of terrorism, all that is required is for us to have the will to approach these problems according to the dictates of common sense. Common sense dictates that illegal aliens should be deported and made to re-enter the country legally. Common sense dictates that alien criminals should be apprehended, and, depending on the severity of their crime, either deported immediately or imprisoned, and disallowed from re-entering. Illegals who have commited capital crimes should be tried and, upon conviction, executed. There should be no sense among the “teeming masses yearning to breathe free” that America will tolerate anything other than a strict adherence to and respect for its immigration laws, laws which keep us safe and keep America’s exceptional and distinctive position as a “city set upon a hill” secure.

      • Ron Hert

        The idea is good and usable-but, another, just as good, idea is to use Drones. Drones have proven to be very effective for the military.
        You don’t need the very expensive Drone-there are very good and less expensive Drones-with great camera systems. Some of these in-expensive
        Drones can stay up for days, weeks, even months now. This is just one
        effecient method-along with ground survelence cameras, and patrols.
        Patrols can be from the State’s National Guard-switching off every two
        weeks with retirees for a week; just to monitor from vehicles. This border protection can be done in a very inexpensive manner.

      • Meteorlady

        I hate the cameras. All they do is something after the fact. More and more big brother’s on the streets, in stores, etc. All this is done with the same reasoning you just gave – security. A freedom is taken away and never given back so I just don’t buy the argument that if I’m not doing anything wrong it should not matter. Once those cameras are all in place and you decide you don’t like your government very much and try to organize or fight back they have you. It’s a matter of getting used to monitoring and that I will never be.

      • Alfie

        The vast majority of Americans do nothing wrong, and have nothing to hide. Why, then, should they be watched – as if they, too, were terrorist suspects making covert moves? It is difficult to understand why you see nothing wrong in being under surveillance. Do you think it’s alright for the government to be your stalker, or peeping Tom – without cause?

        But even more to the point. Ask yourself, “Where are many of these people getting into the country?” [Hint: They aren't all born south of the border] “Why haven’t they closed the borders?”

        The influx of illegal aliens is out of control, and the major purpose of the government – to ensure the safety of American citizens – is not being carried out. Homeland Security [always a band aid, at best] will make token efforts, here and there, whenever they must, so long as there are open borders and laws are not properly enforced. Our homeland security will continue to be “homeland insecurity.”

        New Yorkers need to get Bloomberg out of office – he is doing neither it – nor the country – any favors. Anytime a city mayor tries to interject his ideology for the entire country and to obtain special presidential authorization for it[bypassing Congress], he/she is not to be trusted. Bloomberg’s is merely an individual opinion.

        He would have not been elected as a mayor in many parts of the US. What were the natives thinking?

  • Claire

    Personally I think having surveillance cameras will be a help, especially regarding the terrorists within the U.S. It doesn’t bother me one bit. I don’t feel like I am being “watched.” It doesn’t make me feel paranoid. Surveillance cameras have helped to identify a lot of criminals when they pull their robberies, etc. Since this last episode in Times Square, we need all the help we can get with catching these creeps.

    • JC

      Claire, no matter how you slice it, this is a blow to liberty.

      • Claire

        Perhaps a blow, but how else are we going to catch the thieves and terrorists? Having surveillaen cameras around does catch some of the perverts on camera, leading to arrests.

        • Alfie

          Claire makes an excellent case for individual gun ownership. Criminals don’t like it when they don’t know which citizens have guns ….. private ownership is a tremendous criminal deterrant.

        • JC

          Alfie, agreed. Yes she does.
          Claire, you want to end terrorism? (so do I) Let;s start by letting Israel look after herself and hauling our horns out of the middle east altogether. There is no “good” reason for us to be involved.
          If we mind our own business we regain the moral high ground that America used to pride itself on.

          • Another Voice

            Wow, JC – you and I finally agree on something! This is cause for celebration.

          • kanewolves

            We have to help Israel protect themselves from the constant aggression they’re subject to from all around them. Can anyone imagine the terror that would follow if we got out of the middle east altogether? Why can’t we understand that we’re at war with a religion that’s on a mission to destroy everyone else on the planet. Stop kidding yourself that it’s only a few bad apples that are spoiling the barrel. Every apple in every one of their barrels wants to destroy us, they’re religion tells them it’s what they have to do. If we tell Israel to bugger off, you’re on your own, would Great Britian or Canada or any other nation be on our side when the going gets really tough? I don’t think so. We all need each other, like it or not.

        • JC

          Claire, this is the best article I have come across relating to this topic:

          Why, Even If You Have Nothing To Hide, Government Surveillance Threatens Your Freedom:

          By JOHN W. DEAN
          Friday, Oct. 19, 2007

          “I’ve got nothing to hide, so electronic surveillance doesn’t bother me. To the contrary, I’m delighted that the Bush Administration is monitoring calls and electronic traffic on a massive scale, because catching terrorists is far more important that worrying about the government’s listening to my phone calls, or reading my emails.” So the argument goes. It is a powerful one that has seduced too many people.

          Millions of Americans buy this logic, and in accepting it, believe they are doing the right thing for themselves, their family, and their friends, neighbors, community and country. They are sadly wrong. If you accept this argument, you have been badly fooled.

          This contention is being bantered about once again, so there is no better time than the present to set thinking people straight. Bush and Cheney want to make permanent unchecked Executive powers to electronically eavesdrop on anyone whom any President feels to be of interest. In August, before the summer recess, Congress enacted the Protect America Act, which provided only temporary approval for the expanding Executive powers under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA). These temporary powers expire in February 2008, so Congress is once again addressing the subject.

          The rest of the article: http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20071019.html

          • Claire

            JC– Good post–and I read it all. I agree with the article. So I am not half bad, am I? lol

          • JC

            You’re doing fine. :)

    • Al Sieber

      Would you permit them to put one in your living room or bedroom to be safe?

      • Claire

        Al Seiber–Come on, you know better than that. They aren’t going to infiltrate our homes. I think the ones that have something to “hide” should be worried. The crooks and terrorists are what I am concerned about. I just do not agree that they will be in our bedrooms and living rooms.

        • Independent

          Claire, Do you have a web cam on your home computer, or on your laptop (most laptops come out now with a built-in camera)? If so, do you know for sure that the government creeps in Washington, District of Collusion can’t turn it on at any time. The technology is there, and if you leave it on all of the time, it is not cutting edge technology to energize it remotely. Microsoft and Norton Internet Security do it all of the time to download upgrades on your computer. They can then turn it off, so they can probably turn it on as well. Happy dreams.

        • Sidewinder

          Yes Clair, the Microsoft Operating System has back doors built into it. They can get right into your computer if they want. I don’t use Microsoft.

          Also, they have put cams into people’s homes in England.
          I have heard that arguement before, concerning that only those with something to hide need worry.

          Like I said before, what guarentees do we have that these cams won’t be abused? Suppose you caught a government official with an underaged girl? And that official was worried about you?
          Can you see how those cams might be abused in such a way that someone could track you, find you and harm you?

          Or suppose you embarrassed an nasty IRS agent.

          The abuse potential is endless. We are not terrorists, and do not deserve to be treated as such.

        • JC

          They won’t infiltrate our homes? Don’t bet on it Claire.General surveillance is a step in that direction just the same as gun registration is a step towards confiscation. When was the last time you actually trusted our “leaders” to look out for us anyway?

        • Al Sieber

          Sorry Claire, I didn’t mean it like that, the devil made me do it.

          • Anthony

            Much like Gun Registration only has one purpose – which is to confiscate YOUR guns more easily….

            Webcams in your home at Government Order – is there for only one purpose… and, THAT’s to strip you of your FREEDOM.

            THERE IS NO OTHER REASON – and you can bet, the Government Officials, at the top, do not suffer this intrusion. They only commit it. Hey! Who’s gonna stop them? Did you vote for them?

          • Claire

            Al Seiber–sure he did. Don’t blame it on the devil–you wanted to do it!!

        • Tony

          Really Clair is the nude airport scanner not just this kind of invasion into your personal bed room after all, what else would you not want them to see if it not your naked body or your personal relationships. Think about it.

    • http://personalliberty PFFFF

      Slowly and surely freedom is eliminated and the ignorant masses call it safety.

      • Claire

        PFFFF–If you are calling me ignorant-think again. I just don’t happen to be the type of person that goes off the deep end.

        • niotakid

          pfff, It has been said that anyone willing to give up one of their freedoms to be safe, deserves neither freedom or safety, Ken

          • Save America Susie

            Your quote was from Ben Franklin from “Poor Richards Almanac”–

            “They who can give up Liberty to obtain a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor safety.”

            He also said:
            “When people find they can VOTE themselves MONEY that will herald the end of the REPUBIC.” It’s happening now, is it not? So prophetic in a way.

          • Tony

            AMEN

        • kate8

          Claire, we are dealing with incremental creep of government intrusion here. The kind of control and surveillance we now live under would have been considered “off the deep end” a few decades ago.

          If the technology is there, you can be certain that government will slowly get us used to it until it is just a given.

          • Sidewinder

            Thats exactly right Kate.
            The incrimental creep. Gradualism.

            Once we allow the Camel’s nose under the tent, before long the whole camel is inside. I know I keep saying that, but the time to take a hard stand is in the beginning. its just that these programs always grow larger.

        • JC

          You’re not ignorant Claire…you might want to rethink your position on this one though…

      • Save America Susie

        There’s a very old saying, which my Grandmother used to say to us:

        “Giant Oak Trees from little ‘ACORN’S grow.”

        At one time, the little acorn is under the ground and no one sees it growing. A woman may not even know she is pregnant until she feels the 1st kick. You might not notice you were about to be sued in court until you receive the summons & are perplex.

        Nor would a victim necessarily see the assailant until he sneaks up from behind & mugs or rapes them….I am sure Germany thought Hitler was a great guy at first. Its only hell in retrospect.

        They just didn’t see it coming.
        Hindsight is 20/20.

    • s c

      Claire, someone has to ask you how much freedom you’re willing to sacrifice to feel “safe.” When people sheepishly line up to sacrifice their freedoms, they have no right to be called Americans.
      Do the Founding Fathers mean nothing to you? Would you inflict tyranny on your kids? Do you think slavery and freedom are the same?
      You have some serious soul-searching to do. Either you never learned much about what people have done to keep you free, or you don’t care. I get the impression that you would have loved living in Hitler’s Germany.

      • libertytrain

        Again, with the Claire attack. Have you not read her opinions before that you are insulting her intelligence now? It was her personal opinion from the viewpoint of protecting us, not spying on us.

        • JeffH

          I’m on board with libertytrain, please don’t attack Claire for her opinions.
          Disagree if you will, but make the disagreement a respectable disagreement. Those that know Claire understand her.

          • kate8

            Claire seems like a nice lady. However, I don’t see the comments from sc as an attack on her at all. He actually makes some very good points. Many people don’t realize that the PTB use fear to justify more and more infringement in our liberty, and there are many like Claire who are willing to sacrifice freedom to feel safe. Just look how many willingly walk throught the airport scanners, which have been shown to damage DNA and who-knows-what-else, feeling happily compliant to a system they believe cares about their safety.

            All these foiled “terrorist attacks” are just set up to bring in the next phase of control. We have far more to fear from government tyranny than we do from some bumbling “terrorists”.

            While viscious attacks on totally uncalled for in these posts, we also must understand that these are emotionally charged issues, and sometimes it’s appropriate to point out the brutal truth. In any case, if we are going to post here we should be able to stand by our own positions if we so choose. No need to have self-appointed “attack police” to answer to.

          • JeffH

            kate8 , the comment by s c: “You have some serious soul-searching to do. Either you never learned much about what people have done to keep you free, or you don’t care. I get the impression that you would have loved living in Hitler’s Germany.” was over the top and uncalled for.
            Thus, I agree with libertytrain. Sorry to disappoint.

          • libertytrain

            JeffH – yepper, that’s the paragraph/sentence that prompted me to action as well.

          • kate8

            Jeff, I still think he was just making a point. And my point was, we don’t need to tell people what they can and cannot say. If you want to disagree with sc, or me, or anyone, then that is your right. But we have the right to say what we will, even if some find it offensive. Isn’t that what we are always talking about?

            I assume that Claire is a big girl and, if she’s brave enough to post a comment then she understands that someone might react. Lord knows, I’ve had my share of backlash for my posts. Our world is full of enough monitors of what we say and do. I just don’t think we need more blog police.

          • libertytrain

            I don’t see it as blog police, I see it as sticking up for someone who is being misconstrued.

          • kate8

            Does she need to be stuck up for? She stated her opinion and sc called it the way he saw it. Extreme times often call for extreme measures and, while he was blunt, he was effective in making his point. From what Claire stated, it would seem a logical conclusion to make. Sometimes people need to see the brutal implications of certain moves by government. It appears that Claire still has a certain amount of trust in government to have our best interests at heart, and we all know better than that.

            There are so many like Claire who just don’t want to believe things have gone as far as they have. It is this kind of thinking that allows government to encroach steadily on our liberty. These people need a harsh wake-up call. That is far less cruel than having us all find ourselves herded and controlled as the livestock the elites see us as being. We are very close to that now.

            We should all be able to speak without being chastised for it, unless one is really out of line. I don’t see that as the case here, and I’m sure Claire can respond for herself if she sees fit. I’m not so much sticking up for sc as I am saying that we all need to be patient with one another here. Patience is something we are all running out of, and we get real grief from the liberal schoolyard. We don’t need to start monitoring each other.

          • Claire

            To all that responded to my comment about surveillance cameras being used–First of all, you damn right I’m a big girl, not in size, but I can stand up for myself. I knew full well that my post would cause a stir. Do I care? No. I believe what I believe. My comment was totally about cameras used to spot terrorists, thieves, in banks, stores, etc. And with the way things are on the streets of America, why wouldn’t I feel this way?! It doesn’t make me feel like I am under Hitler’s reign.
            Another thing, Bloomberg is an asshole. So don’t think for one moment that I approve of this guy.

            Sure, terrorists can come from the “skies” but this is what we have our military planes for. They need to be on the ball. I am not faulting our military only the administration and Homeland Security. They are like chickens with their heads cut off.

            Hell yes, we should pull out of Iraq, Afghanistan and stay home where we belong. I wasn’t for this stupid war in the first place. None of those countries give a crap about us, why should we defend them? They will stab America in the back quicker than a whistle if they ever get the chance.

            Any hacker can get in on any of our computers. Anytime, anywhere. That is a given.

            And as far as catgorizing me with the rest of the maniacs, forget it. I am no more crazier than some of the rest that post here. I am my own person, I say what I think just like everyone else on this site.

            Safety? In a way, yes cameras are a form of safety on the streets.
            Safety? Do you think for one moment I depend on this administration or any of them in the past to protect me? Hell no. I never have, I never will.

            sc–if you think I would have ever wanted to live under Hitler, you are nuts. So don’t start with the unpatriotic crap with me. It won’t work.

            Guns? You dang right I have a gun. My husband has plenty of them. As far as my home is concerned, I WILL protect my home and my family. And I will not care WHO tries to invade my home and my life.

            And as far as surveillance goes, we have no doubt been under surveillance for many years. This did not happen last night or today. It has been going on for quite awhile. I would think most of you that disagreed with me would have realized this factor.

            JeffH and libertytrain–thank you for your posts. You both probably know me better than anyone.

          • libertytrain

            Claire, as always, nice post. You’re a good woman and I always appreciate hearing your thoughts.

          • kate8

            Good for you, Claire! You go! I knew you could hold your own.
            Great post.

          • JeffH

            Claire, anytime, anywhere, anyplace. I’ll say nothing else…’cause there ain’t nothin’ like a woman scourned.

          • Sidewinder

            Clair, concerning your comment, Terror can come from the skies, thats what we have military planes for…
            Its doesn’t do a bit of good, when they are told to stand down, as they were on 911. They don’t need authorization from the White House to shoot down planes. But during 911, Dick Cheney intervened, and told them to stand down. The Pentagon attack could have been totally prevented. As a direct result of Cheney, lives were lost.
            They also found no plane wreckage at the Pentagon. Hows that possible?

          • Claire

            sidewinder— No plane wreckage in the Pentagon? If I knew, I certainly forgot. Where did you hear this?

          • JC

            Claire there were many many cameras at the Pentagon. Some were at hotels gas staions and restaurants that had a view of the Pentagon, not to mention the Pentagon’s own surveillance system. The FBI went through the area confiscating all the video footage they could find from private owners and the only view we ever get to see is from a single Pentagon camera. And no where in that footage do you actually see an airplane.

            Also in Pennsylvania, the Harris County Coroner said he stopped being a Coroner 5 minutes after he arrived at the crash site. There were no bodies at all there. In fact he said “It looked like someone dug a long trench, filled it with garbage and set it on fire”.

            I’m not presenting any theories…just facts.

            Camera Surveillance, like gun registration is about control.

          • libertytrain

            Claire – I recall being glued to my TV from the time the first plane hit the towers and I do recall a plane sticking out of the Pentagon as well as have non-military friends working at the Pentagon. There was a plane —

          • JC

            Libertytrain…why then, can we not see any film of it hitting the Pentagon. With all the surveillance that was in place…why?
            The only film I’ve seen and everyone has seen….looks more like an Exocet missile hit the building. Because there is no plane in the film but there is one hell of an explosion.

            Not arguing, just posing an observation.

          • Claire

            libertytrain–I was glued to the TV too. Regarding the Pentagon, I thought there was a plane sticking out of it too, but I thought maybe I was wrong. That was 9 years ago! I can’t remember what I did yesterday! Just kidding,,, lol

          • libertytrain

            Personally I have not felt the need to question the Moon Landing or this issue, but you all are welcome to if you wish.

      • Claire

        sc– I am home for lunch-have to get back to work. I will be back on this evening. For whatever it is worth.

      • Save America Susie

        I didn’t see your comment about Hitler until AFTER I had posted mine,and then began reading some of the others that came after that. Thought I should clarify. Just using it an illustration. One of several I listed. Not that we are necessarily at that point yet, (and not necessarily referring to BO), but just as a way of showing a person might not be able to see something coming, like a fast moving car as they crossed the street & were struck. Just a tool of illustration is all. I am sure you meant yours that way too. You may have friends or relatives who were in the camps in Germany in WW2. It may be very emotional for you & it’s easy to understand the sudden emotional use of the illustration for some people. After all, he SEEMED the perfect answer to their prayers at the time….They just didn’t see it coming.

      • Sidewinder

        Yes Clair, if nothing else, think about what kind of world we are leaving our kids, if we foolishly allow our freedoms to go. Once they are gone, they are gone.

    • DaveH

      Claire,
      If they only applied them to actual criminals, that would be fine. But in reality, everyone breaks one nit-picking law or another inadvertently. There are so damn many laws that no human can be aware of all them (even the lawyers I have dealt with don’t know ever one).
      That’s where the problem starts. If you piss off the wrong Government official it already isn’t that hard for them to make your life miserable. Imagine if they can track your every move. If you think there aren’t just as many (maybe more) immoral people in government as in any other profession, you are just dreaming. With visual evidence on cameras, it also wouldn’t be that hard for them to put together a scenario to frame you, or maybe extort you.
      I had direct experience with an immoral government official. The ex-cop that ran off with my wife. The only person I ever knew who lied as much as he was my ex. It took all my mental resources to thwart the two in court, as they had the big advantage of not being bound by morality.
      I call what is happening in your mind “the movie syndrome”. We watch a movie, and we know who the bad guy is, so we think “get that evil ****”, but in real life there is nobody that has such concrete knowledge of who really is being honest and who isn’t (except the victim). So, as a result the people with the power can make your life miserable if they want. You better stay on their good side, or else.
      Catching bad guys is a good thing, but where do we draw the line on Expense and loss of Freedom to accomplish that goal?

      • Claire

        DaveH–I don’t believe I have “movie syndrome.” And I sure as hell do not live in a dream world. Thanks for the vote of intelligence.
        We draw the line when they DO invade our homes. This has already happened with certain individuals and has been going on for a number of years. Why all of a sudden it is surprising to any of us, especially when it has been going of for a long time.

        • libertytrain

          Again, good reply. I think perhaps, everyone believes they know best or what’s accurate, even for someone else. You might know these words: “Words are the source of much misunderstanding” – I think you are right, there are a couple of us who seem to understand each others meanings without getting in a snit about it.

    • Sidewinder

      Clair
      Here is yet another description of Corportism:

      Corporatist
      A corporatist believes in extremely heavy government intervention in personal matters and low to moderate government intervention in economic matters. They tend to strongly believe in laws restricting personal liberty and support a police state. They tend to support capitalism as an economic system. Corporatists tend to emphasize foreign policy. Corporatist thought is socially collectivist and reactionary.

      You could also use the word Fascist as well as that would be accurate. The word Fascist evokes imiges of Hitler in ones mind, as most people have a predetermined idea of what they think fascism is. They compare their idea of fascism to what we have in America and they don’t believe we have that type of system.

      Thats why I do much prefer the term Corportism. And it is accurate. Dispite the massive economic intervention we have recently seen on behalf of government, I still think the definition fits. They made an exception, as these are extraordinary times.

      But note…They tend to strongly believe in laws restricting personal liberty and support a police state. They do. Survaliance cameras are just one more sign of a police state.

      To what extent they plan to limit personal liberty, I do not know. But I do know its useless to look to the 2 party Corportist Regime to protect your liberty. The 2 partys serve the system thats in place.

      Safety is NOT more important than liberty. Without liberty, you are a prisoner. We expect our soldiers to fight and die, for the virtues of freedom, and they do. Why do we make such exceptions for ourselves here at home? Why will we not protect the long traditions of personal liberty here at home?

      Its not ours to throw away.

      • kate8

        I agree with you, Sidewinder. And I believe that government wants to control EVERY aspect of our lives. Just look at the plans for Smart Growth and Smart Grid, among others. They are even planning to go so far as drugging us all to make us compliant, voluntarily or by force.

        What is planned for us is far more sinister than any of us realize. Those in power do not believe in self-governance. They desire absolute totalitarianism. They want to control our very thoughts.

        Corporatists have gained control of our system. They have technology on their side, and can and are using it against us. Should something happen to destroy the power grid, all bets are off. That may not be such a bad thing in the long run, but the implications of such an event are mind-boggling.

      • niotakid

        sidewinder,and all others, what is more important? freedom and its undergirding principles, or the entity meant to protect it? Be careful how you answer,the way you answer marks your understanding of both freedom and the purpose of it.(or your lack of the understanding) Thomas Jefferson and the rest of the founders– believed that freedom was the principal possession, because liberty is a divine–not human–gift, listen to Jeffersohe also said governments are instituted among Men, government is not the end; it is a means the government is not the Goal; it is the vehicle used to reach the goal, gov’t was never expressed by Jefferson (and the founders)to be the objective. When Gov’t becomes destructive of these means, it is the right of the People to alter or abolish it and to institute new gov’t, gov’t originally gov’t had one purpose to secure these inalienable rights and to secure them. I do not honor our country in the sense that right or wrong it’s my duty to support the (Gov’t) only when our country is right and we must keep it right even to the fault that as our federalist papers have said, from time to time the blood of tyrants must be SHED and that includes Tyrants wi;thin.

        • Sidewinder

          Freedom and liberty. Its the people’s responsibility to protect it.

      • Anthony

        This is me, buying Sidewinder that beer I owe (him/her)…!

        • Sidewinder

          Thanks bud, but Sidewinder doesn’t drink anymore…

      • Claire

        WE will NOT lose our liberty/freedom. We all know what we have to do when the time comes. Writing congressmen, the president, none of it will truly get the results we want. It may help, but if we tell them we will no longer vote for them, will they wake up? It is hard to say. Surely they all know how we feel by now, and to me they certainly aren’t acting very quickly about anything. Only their own agendas. The only other thing we can do is march on DC, and in numbers that will be absolutely staggering. Where there is a will, there is a way. Tea parties are o.k. but we need a “different” kind of march.

        • Claire

          Now that I have said this, I will probably be under surveillance. lol

          • Claire

            I do not imply that we need a “violent” march–just a huge huge march-like in the millions. It can be done. And I think it would have an effect. I have all kinds of ideas about it.

    • blamesomeoneelse

      Wow a camera on every street that can see through masks and makeup. They are watching the public, you may be hit with a penalty for littering or jay walking. Besides we watch like hawks the airports, who can get in this country? Beside 30 million illegal’s. Of course they are here for low pay jobs and not the free money give a ways and free medical and free food and free housing and free…
      Boy I feel safe! Now take away the guns and we all will be safe! They won’t have anything to steal from me as I will be tax poor and a street person.

      Thanks

      • Sidewinder

        You may be hit with a fine for wearing a ski mask, or scarf.

    • David

      Amen, Claire.

    • Tam McCarter

      I believe you are naive. The liberals in our government are crisis creators. They capitalize on every thing that happens as a way to take away more of our freedom. I find it frightening and sad that people can’t see it. It amazes me. These cameras will give excuse for arresting people for saying anything that doesn’t appeal to them. I am a Chrisian I think in the very near future, Christians are going to be arrested for telling the truth, standing up for what is right. Cameras and things of this nature will make it easier to enforce the government’s agenda on everyone. Soon everyone who opposes them will be in danger… like Teaparty people also. You have a dangerous attitude. Once our freedoms are gone it will be next to impossible to regain them.

      • angel-wanna-be

        Tam, FREEDOM IS MORE EASILY DEFENDED, THAN TO REGAIN ONCE LOST.

        • Sidewinder

          You got it Angel..
          And Tam, its not just Liberals that use crisis. Bush did it, Bush did it a lot.
          Both parties will use crisis to further the objectives of government.

          • kate8

            Sidewinder, I hear what you keep saying about Bush, but I think you know that neither Bush nor Obama are the instigators of any of this stuff. They are just frontmen, puppets, set in place as figureheads, who appear to lead but are really just carrying out the will of the corporatist global elites.

            Most likely what happened to your dad wasn’t ordered by Bush personally, but some overzealous homeland security employees. While Bush, like Obama, was a willing participant, it doesn’t make sense to direct your anger wholly at Bush. What happened then would happen also today. It’s what’s happening, regardless of who is president.

          • Sidewinder

            I see what you are saying Kate. I believe my dad was probably tagged electronically, not even by a person.
            Yes I mentioned the other day, that although I cannot see them, I don’t believe the Pres is the highest authority in the land. The filters I mentioned, that ensure no one comes in and turns the government upside down every few years, might be who you are eluding to.

            When I say Bush, I also mean his whole inner circle. And the whole adgenda.

          • Sidewinder

            Sorry I meant ISN”T the highest authority

          • kate8

            I understand. But you also know that it is not even Bush’s agenda. The agenda is much larger than the US Gov’t, which is a puppet gov’t at best. The agenda was at play long before Bush, and is advancing faster and faster now under Osurper.

            While Bush did a lot of questionable things, he did draw the line in certain areas. I always figure that the more the left spews hate against someone, there must be some things they are okay on. I don’t know. We never hear the truth about anything.

            Our nation is in trouble and, unless we can find a way to restrain this runaway train, none of us are safe from our government. Maybe a little more perspective is called for in regard to your anger toward Bush. He is out of office, but the problem is ever expanding under the current “regime”. That is where we should be focusing our energies.

          • Sidewinder

            Hi Kate
            I wanted to expand on what we were talking about yesterday.
            I agree the Patroit Act or some form of it would have been passed no matter who was in office. I know what you are driving at, and I agree…we are heading toward a global government. I actually supported Bush, even voted for him in 2000, right up to the point we failed to find the WMDs in Iraq. At that point I felt we had been lied to. I too bought into the mistaken notion that we needed anti terror legislation. I too was outraged over 911. Once I found out what was in that bill, I opposed it. I didn’t learn about my dad being on that list until 2006, so I had firmly stood in opposition to the Bush Admin, for several years prior. My dislike of the Bush Admin didn’t start with what I found out about my dad, that just made it worse.

            No, Pres Bush signed that piece of garbage into law himself. He’s not some kind of victim. We are responsible for our own actions. I understand American liberty had been taking a beating for a long time before Bush, but that Patroit Act was a dagger through the heart and soul of America. If you kill the Bill of Rights, you kill the soul of America. Patroit violates so many amendments, that I consider it a death blow to liberty. I cannnot give those who had a hand in it a pass. I would like to see him go down in his rightful place in history as the man who killed America.

            From the get go, they expanded the definition of what terrorism is, to include political protest. Patroit was abusive from the start. Ted Kennedy a Senior Senator, was put on a No Fly List. Can you believe that? This bill will grow until it becomes the new standard for all criminal law. I believe thats where it will end.

            I mentioned my dad, only to give some indication that I did in fact have a personal bias against Pres Bush, and to show that I was not some type of Closet Liberal Agitator. I do bash Bush disproportionately in relation to Obama, I know, and it often leads many to jump to the conclusion that I am a Liberal. Just the other day, someone tried to slam me by calling me a Socialist and worse…a Democrat…LOL!
            No, when I was about 20, I took a quiz in a magazine, and scored as a Libertarian. Just yesterday I took 3 online quizes totalling over 200 questions, and scored solidly in Libertarian territory. So my core beliefs haven’t change my whole life. I value the aspects of liberalism as it pertains to having little to no government intervention on personal matters, and in protecting personal rights. Conservativism appeals to me in the sense that I strongly believe in property rights and protecting economic liberty. So no closet liberal here, only a libertarian. To me Libertarinism seems even more conservative, than the traditional “Conservative” definition. So I’m just fine with a Conservative label too, just a different type of conservative.

            Patroit was a huge step. I know he’s long gone, but the damage will live on.

            Everything I say here on this blog, is not to try to build universal condemnation of the Bush Administration, if thats a side effect, good, I can live with that. My objective has always been, to the best of my ability, to build a case, for anyone who will listen, and to show, the 2 party system is not working, and to show we need to vote outside the 2 party system. Any 3rd party.

            My message is, and has always been, vote 3rd Party. And stay nonviolent, in both your actions and your speech.

      • Save America Susie

        “This is the Last Stand on Earth. If we lose freedom here, there will be no place to escape to.”

        –Ronald Reagan

        • angel-wanna-be

          Save America Susie, God Bless the man!

      • Save America Susie

        Christian have already lost the freedom to pray in the name of Jesus in public. Everyone else can pray to whoever they want to. Buddah, Allah, Vishnu,et al. Jesus is now the bad guy?

    • JeffH

      Claire, although I deeply respect all of your opinions, I have to say that Bloomberg IS another “globalist government” supporter. Anything this clown does deserves deep scrutiny. In my case it’s not remotely any knd of paranoia, it’s a matter of “who can you trust” anymore.
      Certainly not government and most certainly not one of Obama’s bedfellows. Say one thing, do another. True, give up a small piece of liberty and next thing is another small piece and it continues until there is no liberties left to give.
      My question to you is…would you think that cameras should be put in every city in America to keep “an eye out for terrorists”?
      Yes, criminals are identified by all kinds of surveilance cameras

      • kate8

        Are you aware that in the UK, they have actually been putting cameras in people’s homes, to monitor how they are raising their children?

        They already have technology to watch us and listen to us in our homes, if they choose to. And if they can to a thing, you can be sure that they will. It’s coming.

        Already we are monitored in many public places, like busses, restaurants and other public buildings. We have been for some time. We have judges upholding official decisions that we have no right to privacy. The Orwellian system is here.

        “For when they shall say, ‘Peace and safety’, then sudden destruction shall come upon them…” I Thess. 5:3.

        • JC

          East to do to an unarmed population isn’t it?

          • JC

            should read “easy”

      • JeffH

        kate8..my comment: “Yes, criminals are identified by all kinds of surveilance cameras” was poorly placed and easily misunderstood.
        My intent was that the cameras used at traffic lights, ATM’s, business security cameras, etc are the ones that have helped to identify criminals. My intent was not a show of support or say I thought Bloomberg’s “cameras” were a good idea or acceptaple in any case.

        • kate8

          Sorry, JeffH. My comment was to Sidewinder, 7:49, when he was talking about not knowing how far surveillance cameras would go.

          I did not misunderstand you. I quite agree.

      • Claire

        JeffH–The larger cities do need some camera surveillance-subways, etc. There is a lot more crime in Chicago, New York, etc. than in small towns I think. At least the Times Square terrorist wannabe was picked up on camera. I am simply thinking in terms of the creeps and yes terrorists. At least if no one sees these idiots, maybe a camera will spot them.
        I don’t have the answer–all I know is that something has to be done to thwart these creeps.

    • Vicki

      in public areas I have far less concern about video surveillance then in private areas. It makes a good line in the sand. Now that being said what I would like to see is a lot more video cameras in the hands of the populace so that we can be the answer to the age old question ” who watches the watchers”

      Another useful line in the sand is when the government blocks our ability to watch their agents. Interfering with the press and or interfering with private citizens video and audio recording of government agents.

      Watch for those lines. When the government crosses them (and it will) you know to be worried.

      • angel-wanna-be

        Vicki, there’s always a handy dandy camera phone!

        • Vicki

          When the Gov confiscates your phone when you are trying to record their (mis) behavior you will know the line has been crossed.

  • Sidewinder

    Fear the government that fears its people.

    • Save America Susie

      “When people fear the Government, there is TYRANNY. When the Government fears the people, there is LIBERTY!”

      –Thomas Jefferson

      • JC

        Amen to that!

  • angel-wanna-be

    Although our Intelligence I believe, is fairly spot on, I don’t care what kind of cameras, you place where, there is no way in hell, your going to stop all the terrorism coming on shore or through the skies. You won’t find them all or stop them all. We live in different times. In among 300 million people here in the U.S., I would assume, as far as being a suspect to terrorism, we are all guilty now until proven innocent. SC your right, Government doesn’t trust us and we don’t trust them. It’s a vicious circle. But if our Fed is not protecting the borders and enforcing immigration laws across the board, terrorists can “get in” anywhere. Even then, they’ll slip through the cracks. I have no proof, but Some of these, would be terrorists, I believe, become American citizens. They blend in, and we are no worse for wear, sadly until something happens. While our intelligence are top of the line, they are not clairvoyant. I do however believe the Good Lord has had our backs. We’re experiencing now, what the rest of the world has been experiencing, which is home grown terror. It was a matter of time. The thing I resent, is because we as Americans, disagree with our current Administration, we are called right wing extremists, an our dissent is blended in, with those would be terror suspects. Anymore, America feels like a giant concentration camp, phone taps, bank accounts watched, anything we do, everywhere we go, is being monitored. Is it really to keep us safe? I think all of this “was the original intent” after 9/11, now I think it’s an excuse to spy, but___You tell me?

    • DaveH

      Angel,
      Even in such a closed environment as prison, there still occurs a lot of illegal activities. They can take away all our freedom and there will still be evil in society. And a lot of it will come from government itself. The only workable solution is to leave our freedom alone, but punish those who do get caught appropriately.

      • angel-wanna-be

        DaveH, but the Government won’t leave freedom alone, little by little over the years, they’ve been chipping away at our freedoms and the Constitution. They’ve chipped at our freedoms, so minute in fact, a lot of us didn’t see it coming. Others who did see it, turned a blind eye, hoping they we’re wrong or that what they were seeing, would just go away.

        • DaveH

          I agree. I’ve been preaching to people for 40 years. Most of them in the early days thought I was a nut, but now many of them sound more like me than I do.

          • angel-wanna-be

            DaveH, Your not alone there, I get the “I’m a Nut Case too”__I never worried about it though, cuz I figure if folks are talking about me, they’re letting someone else alone!__Just a different take on it!_lol

          • Tam McCarter

            DaveH
            I am happy people are still paying attention to what is going on. I think sometimes I irritate people for being concerned. I honestly am not afraid. I know God is in control. But I am angry. Angry that it has taken so much to get our attention. We had to get an Idiot in the White House for folks to notice. I get tired of it being made a racial thing if you don’t like him. I don’t care if he was pink, if he believed the right things and stood up for our country. But no, he is a power grabbing jerk. If people can’t see how fast he is grabbing power they are blind.

          • kate8

            DaveH, angel, Tam: I think there are a lot of us around. I’ve also been sounding the alarm for years, and no one has wanted to hear. It’s a very lonely place to be at times, and a heartwrenching one. I’ve encouraged my family to prepare, to be aware, but they’ve about their merry way, choosing to believe nothing is amiss.

            Now many of them are taking some notice, and are finding themselves not ready for the hardship which is already encroaching. The government is making it increasingly difficult to conduct business and make a living. I belive they are deliberately pushing us into a state of panic.

          • angel-wanna-be

            Kate8, I’m a realist, a skeptic realist, no wonder I have a friggin’ headache__LOL__But so many people choose to look the other way when confronted with half truths about anything, they don’t want to the hard stuff and find out the whole truth. Like those of here try to do through discussion on this site. I’ll admit, I did not get involved in fact finding politics, until about two years ago. I was busy with kids, very sick parents for well over 20 years and raised a granddaughter til she was five.___after my folks died, my kids grew up, and our daughter got married & her and our granddaughter left home, did I have the time to read and absorb what is going on in politics. We had family in politics, so I knew enough to be dangerous for years. History is my thing, I love history American History, and the more I read, the more I’ve find, not much has changed since the Revolution. Today, the difference is, I believe, that people are much more “me” oriented, rather than wanting to being a part of America as a whole. Sadly we can’t trust the leadership we vote in office, they campaign on one platform, and govern from another once in office.
            I don’t have issues with foreign people who come here to America, the land of the free. What I have issues with, is they don’t wanna blend in. I’m damn tired of the political correct crowd telling me to give up our Christian religious beliefs and American customs, the very thing America was built on, while it’s OK for Muslim, Buddists and/or any other religion sect, to parade in their native garb and have their beliefs. I look at it this way, You leave my Ten commandments alone, I’ll respect you. If you take it as a gester of good will when I wish you a Merry Christmas, I’ll accept, your happy Kwannza. BUT DON’T TRAMP ON MY RIGHTS to do the same, AND PEOPLE ARE FIMNALLY WAKING UP, JUST LIKE iI DID!! I LOOK AT THIS WAY, If you want to live here from a foreign land, do it legally and then learn the language. Respect our American customs and our ways, your here because you wanted to be. Personally, I resent pressing 1 for English!!! We all come from somewhere else, all of ancestors came over from somewhere, they learned the language. I’m partly native American, but I don’t march in parades or go around and act as if, individually, I’m something special. I feel each of us are part of a whole and that is America!__No one says we have to forget our own personal heritage, we don’t, but I believe we should be AMERICANS FIRST!___God Bless

          • Save America Susie

            ANGEL, That was awesome! So right on! I hate pressing 1 for English too! : ) And The whole list as you said here. America was founded on INDIVIDUAL Rights, and the Left is deliberately “over-looking” anyone’s rights but their own. I want Jesus back too. Someone seems to have stolen Him.

          • angel-wanna-be

            Save America Susie, Thanks__Learn with the mind, but speak from the heart!

          • angel-wanna-be

            kate8, yes I too think the Government is trying to spin more hysteria, we don’t however have to take the bait. We need to keep a watchful eye and keep learning, and share with others what we learn__God Bless

    • Sidewinder

      I think you are getting close Angel.

      What if…

      What if the evolving corportist state needed to gain more control over its people. Americans have a long standing love of freedom, and a history of protecting that freedom. How could you pass into law a Bill that would sharply curtail that freedom, and not run into total opposition?

      What if a decision was made to exploit the very real Islamic jihadist threat, and stage an event that would have Americans begging the Government to do something?
      No more opposition.

      We live in a Corportist system of government. Corportists seek to limit personal liberty. Those are facts.
      I find the events of 911 all to conveinent. 911 served Corportist evolution and interests well. Coincidence?

      In the wake of 911, we also experienced the Anthrax Attacks. And curiously, Democratic Federal Officials were a main target. After the Anthrax Attacks, we dealt with the DC snipers. America was held in a state of constant fear from 9/11/01 right up to the point the snipers were caught, 10/24/01.

      On 10/26/01 Pres Bush signed into law The USA Patroit Act with little opposition.

      When people are full of fear, they do not think rationally.

      • angel-wanna-be

        Sidewinder, your right, people don’t think rationally in fear. That’s why thieves make a living off of fear. I do think we can find excuses and conveniences in any circumstance, wether good or bad. It depends on the answer your looking for. We can read into & justify anything. A fine example is the Generation of revisionists that’s twisted the founding of America. While, I think it’s good to look at all sides of the coin, we can’t be consumed by it, or use one resource. We need to read many resources to draw a fair conclusion. It’s better to know the information and be aware of it. Rather than to constantly live in fear.

        • Sidewinder

          I do try to read everything I can. I don’t know if what I am saying is absolute fact.
          But in taking all things into account, I find what I have said to be more probable than not.
          Sometimes thats the best we can do without all the facts.
          And I will continue to revise my view as I learn more. One way or the other.

          • angel-wanna-be

            Sidewinder, I don’t think any of us have ALL the facts or the answers, I try to think and learn in a blend, between the heart and mind. You have to trust yourself too, each of us I believe, who are on fact finding missions like we are, has a signal that goes off, where we instantly know what is truth, you have to be in tune with yourself. What works for me is prayer._-It’s been quite a journey so far.

    • kate8

      Angel, I really think that the biggest threat of “homegrown terror” is from the government itself. I really now believe that all these “attacks” are flase flags, set up to bring in more control. Notice how these measures are implemented within days. This means that they’ve had them ready to go all along.

      This administration is on a roll, full speed ahead. We need an intervention from the Almighty to stop them in their tracks. I think that will happen, but if prophecy stands correct (and it has so far), much travail will come first.

      • angel-wanna-be

        Kate 8, I’m with you, we ca read all we can, but the lords mighty hand is gonna have the last say.

      • JeffH

        kate8, so true. Remember the Hutaree Militia group that was arrested?
        They were to be released, under bond, by the judge because the prosecuter couldn’t make a strong enough arguement to keep them in jail. Well, that didn’t ever happen because the judge later changed her mind. I’m not taking a stand to support or not support the Hutaree Militia, but I wonder who convinced the judge (Holder? Rahm?)
        to recind the release?
        Something is rotten in Denmanrk!

        • Sidewinder

          Steer clear of Militias…

          • kate8

            Why, Sidewinder? Our founders stated that we MUST maintain a highly trained militia, to protect us from government tyranny.

            What do we have when the military and law enforcement all abandon their oath to protect and defend the Constitution against “all enemies, foreign and DOMESTIC”, and turn against we the people? When they come to confiscate all our guns?

            Our militia may be all that stands between us and total slavery. We’d better hope they are well-trained and well-equipped.

            The militia has been given a bad rap by government and Hollywood for decades, conditioning us to believe that they are the enemy, a bunch of “right-wing extremist crazys”. Quite the opposite is true. They are mostly true patriots, who are willing to be our last hope, and even our last stand.

          • Save America Susie

            I think Sidewinder is concerned that the first militias may have to go to jail ala Big Brother Government, if something starts? But I stand with Kate8 in that it is our Constitutional Right.

          • Al Sieber

            Anyone that owns a firearm is in the milita. Obama’s after our firearms, just goggle “un small arms treaty”. he’s doing it by stealth, him and Hillary Clinton.

          • Save America Susie

            It is so strange….I have noticed that many celebs who abhor guns and talk against them actually have body guards with guns to protect them. Go figure!?

          • Sidewinder

            I say steer clear of Militias Kate because they advocate the violent overthrow of the government.

            Thats not the way.

            Moral reasons aside, you would be facing the most powerful force on Earth. It simply would not work.
            As bad as the government is, I am somewhat happy, that government is protected from bands of yahoos with agendas
            that I know nothing about.

            You don’t want a situation where just any group could take over. What if the street gang the Bloods, decided to move against Washington? You don’t want that.

            A peaceful, lawful change is needed.

            And Militias, are looked upon as domestic terrorists, their veiws are too extreme to become mixed up with. Some of them actually do advocate real terrorism. Their existance only plays into the hands of the Regime.

            Take a tip from Martin Luther King instead. Stay nonviolent. Then they cannot stop you.

          • Sidewinder

            Kate and Susie, you are right in theory, Citizen Militas are a patroitic thing.
            However, they give the government something solid to swing at.

            When Grandma sees the FBI arresting, Militia men, or “Terrorists” she is relieved that the government has caught the bad guys.

            But even grandma can see something is wrong, when she sees federal forces beating on unarmed, peaceful protesters. And that would only strengthen our side even more.

          • Sidewinder

            Lastly Kate, we don’t live in colonial times anymore. While the virtues of liberty are timeless, the methods of protecting it have changed.
            No longer can we match musket for musket our adversaries. We are outgunned severly, both in numbers and weaponry. Colonial era patroits never had to square off angainst an Abrahms tank. And believe me, before they allow armed citizens to bust into the capitol building, they will pull out all stops.

            A different kind of weapon is in order. A citizen militia can comprise vigilent, but nonviolent individuals who have the will and the means to safegard liberty, through lawful and legitimate avenues. They can be lawyers, they can be voters.

            Pick your battles. You are more effective alive than dead.

        • Sidewinder

          Yes Susie, thats because Celebs are hung up on authority. As long as you wear a uniform, or work for somebody in security, then its ok to sport weapons.
          I think its got to do with their style of thinking.
          I can respect that, however I don’t wish to see their views gain anymore traction.

          As much as I urge nonviolence, I myself own firearms. More for preparedness, and self suficiency, than anything else.
          Wouldn’t ever want to point it at someone…its just in case the grid goes down…

      • angel-wanna-be

        Kate8, sure they’re false flags waving, it’s a diversion from what they’re really doing in Washington.___We Can’t Believe What Washington Say’s, We Have To Watch What They Do!

  • HFlashman

    Bush and cheney proved fear to be very effective in getting controls instaleed to monitor and control us. They used fear to get the unPatrioti Act installed. they used fear to stifle any dissent from the Left. They used fear in every campaign to malign opposition (primary and general elections), they used fear to coordinate their stream of coverups in graft and corruption. And they used fear to prevent any questions as they let Wall Street become run by oligarchies and entrenched Big Money to where we now have the very real possibility of losing control to them.

    And the Right wing Conservative Movement..many who now style themselves as “Tea Baggers”, fell for it all and were the biggest, most vocal, most virulent ‘defenders” of the Fear policies.

    And what is the Right’s reaction to the new administration and the attempts to correct the disasterous eight years of Bush? Why…fear ! Not one Congressman can now have a chance to run on a sane, middle of the road, common sense platform. If they do, they are ousted by someone who can prove that they are crazier, loonier, wackier, and more rqdical than anyone else in the race. (And I speak of both the Left and Right).

    No one is thinking anymore. veryone is allowing themselves to be led around and treated as a statistic. Politicians look for money because….votes are made by being told enough times how to vote.

    Anyone…anyone…who supported the Bush/Cheney fear policies and who now claims we are being destroyed by this administration simply does not have thier head on straight. I am not advocating supporting this administration in all it does, but in no way is opposing every aspect of the attempts to right the wrongs of the past eight years healthy nor patriotic.

    • http://None Jeryl

      Well, H, I’d have to say if you trust the Obamessiah you don’t have your head on straight. I was no fan of Carter, Bush 1, Clinton, or Bush 2. But, Herr Barak tops them all (read that “is more devious than the rest of them put together”). Look at his personal history. He’s a Hitler wannabe. “Socialists of a feather flock together.” Try not to drink too much Koolaide.

      • angel-wanna-be

        Jeryl, Bush or any of the rest Presidents weren’t perfect by any means, but at least, we didn’t have to wonder if they were American citizens. Obama is the all Presidents put together, on steroids.

        • Ellen

          Angel, Amen there are to many unanswered question and SERIOUS questions on obummer!!
          The trouble is ILL-legal imagrant’s, people getting into OUR country to easy and not getting there body’s out of here and on there way. Then they think they have the right to make us over and gripe and cause trouble. WE are dumb enough to put up with it, and PAY FOR IT. Then OUR MONEY is taken from us to cover the lazy goverments back side, and our freedoms taken away. We are THE people over 3M against 542. Who is in control here??

          • angel-wanna-be

            Ellen, sadly right now they are!__Money and power talk, and people listen._They’ve made a mockery of We The People!__I think many officials, have gone to Washington with the right heart, but are lured amd weakened, by the lure of “power sirens”. We elect the b*stards in there on one platform, as soon as they’re elected, they change the platform. We are sick of the LIES. Honestly, I believe, We needed Obama in there, to wake us up!__and it did!__No one really knows how bad things can be, until the good is taken away. I said good, not perfect.

        • Tam McCarter

          Angel-wanna-be
          I don’t think we have had a good president since Reagan. Right now the only man in goverment anywhere that I like and respect is Benyamin Netanyahu. He has guts. He stands up for Isreal thankgoodness. He faced off a whole room of people who don’t stand for Isreal at the UN.
          We don’t even have a so called president who will salute the flag. How an unpatriotic man got elected is beyond my comprehension.

          • angel-wanna-be

            Tam Carter, I don’t think we were looking Tam. We trusted the people we elected, which is apparently our first mistake. That’s how they got in there. I think people want to naturally believe in their Government. But when we finally woke up and faced reality that Government “is” a business. And Big Governmental power is even bigger business, we were shocked to find our best interest is no longer at heart. Controlling the people as whole is easier than controlling the individual. Hysteria is an easy way to control the people, that wht the mainstream headlines are filled with it everyday. A recession/depression is based on fear. Like beating a sheep with a stick, after a while, the hit doesn’t hurt, as much a sthe sight of the stick. We need to stay informed and alert!!

          • angel-wanna-be

            Tam, and yes your right Reagan was a God send, we seriously need another Reagan.

      • DaveH

        And what, Flash, has he corrected? We are still in Afghanistan. We are still in Iraq. He has authorized more drone attacks in the middle-east than Bush did. We still have the Patriot Act, which, by the way, was only voted against by one Democrat Senator and only a handful of Democrat Representatives. Obama is vastly outspending Bush. He is not only continuing the Crony-Capitalism, he is increasing it. Now, the companies better tow the party line or Obama will put immense, unconstitutional pressure on them using every dirty Chicago trick that he has learned.
        While I would by no means absolve Bush for his role in building our Government ever larger, he is being vastly upstaged by the dictator-in-training Obama.

      • JeffH

        It certainly didn’t take long for the 8 year crowd to surface…zig heil Herr Kapitän.

        • Save America Susie

          Can you clarify the “8 year crowd” for us? Not familiar with that term.

          • JeffH

            Save America Susie, they’re the ones that always remember to blame Bush for everything, no matter what the discussion is about. LOL!

          • Save America Susie

            Oh, I see! I am new to this blog–even though I have been reading the Liberty Digest e-mailer since before the election. But never commented before a few weeks ago. Even so, some terms are new to me! I refuse to believe “W” is evil enough to have known about 9/11 beforehand or had any part of it. It would take a pretty evil person to be in on the deaths of 1000′s–especially his own countrymen (which is what Sadam did–tens of 1000′s in his case in the 1990′s). I believe “W” was just “CLUELESS”–just as he was in other aspects of his presidency–he had only been President 8 months–such as keeping open borders, which my husband & I thought was quite foolish! He was not the best president, made alot of mistakes, but I am one who believes he kept us safe all that time. It is JUST AS LIKELY that the terrorists are quite good, and did some prep work.
            Thanks for clarifying!

    • s c

      Flash, was it necessary to sound like a progressive and throw in yet another predictable ’8 years of Bush and Cheney’ mantra? Even if it was an accident, you could have worded it better.
      If you’re trying to split hairs, then at least admit that Bush was a predictable useful idiot and anything but a conservative. When it comes to this Orwellian regime, we’re dealing with concentration camp guards, anarchists and executioners – not just another round of useful idiots. Screw Hollywood finger-pointing.

      • Save America Susie

        Interesting that most people, think that ALL of HOLLYWOOD is on the left. But I was pleasantly surprised to find that many of our favorites were Conservatives! OR have voted for them! Who knew?

        Check this blue link out:
        http://www.mypalal.com/aboutalan/ConservativeCelebrities.cfm

        (And Some are the Biggest Box Office draws of all time)
        including:

        Harrison Ford
        Clint Eastwood
        Robert Duvall
        Tom Selleck
        Sylvestor Stallone
        Bruce Willis
        Dwayne Johnson (The Rock/Mummy)
        Dennis Quaid
        Gene Simmons (KISS)
        James Earl Jones
        Jean Claude Van Damme
        Stephan Baldwin
        Alice Cooper (Go figure)
        Chuck Norris
        James Woods
        Wayne Newton
        Jaclyn Smith
        Loretta Lynn
        Randy Travis
        Bo Derek
        Freddie Prinz Jr.
        Rick Shroeder
        Jeff Foxworthy
        Mel Gibson
        Tony Danza
        Dennis Hopper
        Dixie Carter
        Ron Silver
        Vince Vaughn
        Shirley Jones
        Heather Locklear
        Jessica Simpson
        Clint Black
        Cheryl Ladd
        John Malkovich
        Chaka Khan
        Kid Rock
        James Caviezel
        Jamie Farr
        Just to name a few…

        • angel-wanna-be

          Save America Susie, How cool is that!

    • Robin from Arcadia, IN

      HFlashman says: No one is thinking anymore. veryone is allowing themselves to be led around and treated as a statistic.

      You couldn’t be more wrong…. So many people who always felt that those in Washington were there because they were the best to lead our country and we didn’t have to concern ourselves about worldly and domestic issues have come to a new conclusion. Most of them are there for the power, the money, and not there for us! You are clueless about the Tea Party revolt. You can’t even get the name right! We are among those who now know that those in government are not there to help us. We are looking for those who will do the will of the people. Those who will enact rules and laws that go hand in hand with the Constitution. I didn’t pay a lot of attention to what went on in government, but I do now. And the Tea Party movement is making that very clear to those who are currently serving. We are now thinking and acting. Our eyes are now open. You are wearing blinders!

      • angel-wanna-be

        Robin from Arcadia, a lot of us never watched politics like we do now. I watched from a distance up until two years ago and some of our family was in politics. But my instincts served me well, I began to dig for info, when the Obama Administration took over. I Thank Christ I did.

        • JeffH

          OOOH RAH!

      • Tam McCarter

        Robin,
        YOu are right. I just joined the Teaparty. I know that being called a teabagger is a leftwing slam. It is a homosexual term.

    • Barb

      HFlashman: Bush and Cheney are OUT of office, they are gone, no more! GET IT? Drop the Bush bashing and oh yeah, GO TO HELL!

      • angel-wanna-be

        Barb, tellem’ girl, that Bush/Cheney crap gets old.

      • DaveH

        I am so pleased that the ladies are now coming out in mass to support freedom. In my younger days, it was like pulling teeth to get women to discuss politics.
        Thank you all for your support.

        • angel-wanna-be

          Dave H, I can’t speak for all women, my husbands family was in politicsm, I had no choice, i either joined the discussion or ignored it!__I ingored it for the most part until our kids were grown. I began reading and learning more about politics, a couple years ago.
          What a gigantic eye opener!

          • angel-wanna-be

            DaveH, excuse spelling errors

        • Barb

          DaveH You are welcome, but we’re not here just for support my friend we are here side by side no matter what may come! We will fight the good fight and we will persevere!

        • JeffH

          Yes DaveH, thanks to all of you. I’m seeing a lot of genuine passion and common sense from you all.

        • Tam McCarter

          DaveH
          I don’t think we can afford to ignore things. I am interested because as a Christian, I see what God says is going to happen…happening. It amazes me. Time is short. I don’t believe that we are to sit and do nothing. Advice, a good news source is “Whistle Blower Magazine” and online “Worldnet Daily”. I have learned much from them. You certainly can’t learn from mainstream media!

        • JC

          Dave H, further to that, I’m seeing a LOT of woman coming out to gun clubs these days too. They pull up in their mini vans with the child seats in back and rock out with a .45 for half an hour and back to the kids…Coincidence or a new awareness?

      • Sidewinder

        Barb,
        I tread very lightly on Bush bashers. The damage Bush did is still with us as we speak. Obama is picking up where Bush left off. Thats his job. And a Republican Pres will pick up where Obama leaves off.

        If you look at the Patroit Act, it violates in one way or another almost every single amendment of the Bill of Rights.
        It was an all out assault on our Liberty. Obama is merely expanding on that.
        I fail to see the logic in penalizing Americans to catch terrorists. Bin Laden did not change our way of life, our government did.

        • DaveH

          That’s what Big Government specializes in – punishing the many for the acts of the few.

        • Save America Susie

          I think BOTH did!

    • Raggs

      Flashman.

      If you insist on calling the grassroots of america “Baggers”.
      This leads me to believe that the left are “spooners”.

      I say this because in reality those like you that resort to discrimination and name calling of a people are in fact insecure and hiding the truth about yourselves..This leads me to believe it’s you that may have a gay problem hiding from sight… So nowadays from the leftist view of things it’s ok for you to come out of the closet!

      • Barb

        Raggs, My thoughts exactly!

      • DaveH

        Raggs,
        Don’t give a bad name to “spooning”. For sure, I don’t know that the word hasn’t been altered to mean “sodomy” these days (like the word “gay” has been co-opted), but what we called spooning was a perfectly normal act between man and woman.

        • Raggs

          I didn’t know that…
          It looks like the gays are also using the term…
          I picked it up from the movie Wild Hogs…
          I just assumed it was a gay thing…
          I’m not gay so I never researched it….

          • Sidewinder

            Wild Hogs…
            I just assumed it was a gay thing…

            LOL!! I can’t take it…

          • Save America Susie

            I had to laugh when you talked about the movie “Wild Hogs”. My Husband & I loved that movie! I think they were just using that term for a JOKE in that instance. This is how terms spin off into other meanings I guess.

        • Save America Susie

          Starting with my grandparents,and on down through our family generations, it just meant a husband and wife snuggling in bed like two spoons. Most women like to snuggle. It can also have various meanings I suppose. But, Sad that it has picked up the other meaning.

          • Tom Teacher

            Thanks Susie…I’m apparently just too old to recognize the gay usage. I’ve been spooning with my wife for years…we always thought it was just a term for doing what you said it is!! By the way…since this all began as a discussion regarding Bloomberg, the dictator of New York, what about he and his cronies who are “protecting” us by trying to take our guns away…he spends great portions of his fortune to champion this cause! The man wants to be the next Hitler nearly as much as Osama Obama doew!

          • Save America Susie

            TOM, Apparently he has not read the 2nd amendment! Or read history about what happens when the Government takes peoples guns away. I don’t personally own a gun, but I certainly would stand up for the rights of those who do.

        • JLC

          DaveH — As I recall from the days of my youth — somewhere between the Paleolithic and the Renaissance, according to my great-grandkids — “spooning” was done with the clothes ON.

          • Save America Susie

            When a couple was “Courting” in the early 1900′s (my grandparents day), “clothes-on” spooning was what they did as their relationship got more serious. A women wanted to get married as a virgin. I grew up in a very conservative family, and that virginal goal was still the goal even in the late 1960′s when everyone else was going wild with “free love” in the Hippy era. My husband and I were high school sweethearts at that time. We liked to spoon even then in the same way our grandparents did. Waiting until marriage for sex didn’t signify that you didn’t have passion (cause we sure kissed a lot), just that you wanted to arrive at marriage with a focus on the SPIRITUAL. And actually get to know each other 1st. Now-a-days hardly anyone gets married, and things seem a lot more messed up in relationships. I think it’s very sad. There were different standards then, for sure. It didn’t seem to slow us down any though in the passion dept.. We’ve been married over 40 years, and have 3 kids and 2 grand kids. I wouldn’t have changed it! I think our marriage will last! Still like to spoon.

      • Sidewinder

        LOL!

    • Sidewinder

      I know what you are saying HFlashman.

      They are confused. They don’t understand the nature of the problem. Many clearly see only one 1/2 of what is wrong.
      Understanding this helps me to keep from getting upset over what I perceive to be total stupidity.

      They are just confused.

  • J.M.R.

    this is going to happen since we have a non-american dictator at the helm…

  • WARLOC

    OBAMA BOTS like Claire are dangerous autobots. Willing to give up FREEDOM in the face of FALSE FLAGS such as this. Lets create a bogus TERROR attack so we can strip the FREEDOM of all who SERVE. Wake up folks this is not the first BOGUS attempt to remove Freedom without you thinking twice about it. This is a ploy that you SHEEPOLE or LEMMINGS fall for every time. Willing to let BIG BROTHER continue to strip us of any personnal FREEDOMS. Our CONSTITUTION is under attack and you do not even understand it. If this guy was a trained TERRORIST like they say then you would think he could set off a few firecrackers. They seem to have no problem with doing it all over the world. Just never seem to pull it off here in the LAST FREE COUNTRY in the World. WAKE UP!!!!!

    • BigBadJohn

      Read up on the PNAC, pay attention to who signed it. Then ask yourself, just how many of those goals were accomplished as a direct result of 9/11.
      You are right our are freedoms are under attack, but it did not start with Obama.

      • Al Sieber

        People need to look up “Project For A new American Century” (PNAC). most of the goals have been accomplished slowly, through the years. and it’s moving faster under Obama.

        • Sidewinder

          Yeah, you got it Al Sieber

          That document is practically an advance confession. The terrorists are in Washington.

          We have so many anti terror laws on the books now….any way to hang them with their own rope?

      • Sidewinder

        Yeah, we’re on the same page alright.

        And Libertarian….thats how I scored in a 160 question quiz. Just straight up Libertarian…

        • Sidewinder

          Yes it was signed, and it called for a New Pearl Harbor.

      • Sidewinder

        The Project for the New American Century (PNAC) was an American think tank based in Washington, D.C. that lasted from early 1997 to 2006. It was co-founded as a non-profit educational organization by neoconservatives

        Section V of Rebuilding America’s Defenses, entitled “Creating Tomorrow’s Dominant Force”, includes the sentence: “Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event––like a new Pearl Harbor” (51).[13]

        And they sure got thier wish. They didn’t have to wait.

        • BigBadJohn

          “And they sure got thier wish. They didn’t have to wait.”

          Awful suspicious in my book. A lot of folks keep talking about false flag operations pulled off by the liberals. I think that 9/11 was largest false flag operation ever pulled off on America!

          • Sidewinder

            They’ve really got to stop thinking in terms of Liberals and Conservatives, or Democrats and Republicans, and see that the 2 parties might as well be one.

          • Sidewinder

            And its funny too, how so many can accept the notion that “Liberals” could pull off a False Flag operation, but refuse to believe a Republican Administration is capable of it. It went on under Clinton as well, and GHW Bush too.

          • JeffH

            Sidewinder, oh, I think most people are aware that the bad guys are the circus animals all dressed up in Red White and Blue. They just make different sounds. Some have a trunk and big ears, others have big ears and are asses.

          • kate8

            Sidewinder, the only place where the liberal/conservative stance has any relevance is among the populace, where it is fostered to keep us divided amongst ourselves. You are right, the ones in control are all part of the same club, posing as opposing idiologies in order to keep us working within their system.

            Among the people, however, the differences are great. Liberals and conservatives have different thought processes, and will see the same issues entirely different. It is a matter of education and indoctrination, I guess. And some people just have more common sense and rational thinking.

    • libertytrain

      WARLOC – you must be very new here – Claire is definitely not an Obama fan – she is however, entitled to her opinion. It’s called personal liberty, not “say only what I want and think you should say or I’ll insult you,” etc.

    • DaveH

      Warloc,
      Please don’t attack Claire for expressing her honest opinion. I look at her as a Freedom-lover in training, and attacking people like her might just send them running to the Liberal side. We need to be careful to not adopt the tactics of the Liberals. We should just stick to drowning them in facts. Unless of course, they draw first blood, which the Liberals usually do.

      • Sidewinder

        Yes Warloc they are right.
        Most people to some degree, myself included, are confused about things.
        We talk, we learn, and we try not to insult others. I’ve done it, its tough sometimes, I know.

    • JeffH

      WARLOC…I’ll say that you are not much different than a lot of new posters here, lefties and righties.
      Don’t tread on Claire! Hands off…she wants the same thing as everyone else…and stated her opinion. Stick around long enough and you’ll see that Claire isn’t remotely what you have perceived.

    • Claire

      WARLOC– How dare you call me a name. How dare you categorize me? Who do you think you are? You are so blind with your hate it is pitiful. Go scream at a true liberal, leave me the heck alone.

  • http://n/a Gary Reed

    5-13-10
    I am in support of cameras. I am in support of policemen who have a
    walking beat. Their presence instills confidence and that confidence
    brings communication between the police and the citizens who live on
    that policemans beat.

    • Sidewinder

      Well Gary, what if those cameras were being abused? Blackmail, ect. No one is perfect…

      Their mere presence shows a lack of respect of the individual. Its presence is saying, “You are all suspect.” Its too Authoritarian for a free society.

      • Vicki

        Tis true we would have much less feeling that we need the cameras if we all exercised our constitutional right to keep and bear arms. Just imagine how much lower crime would be if the criminals had to seriously worry about who was armed and dangerous in the field of sheep they currently consider their hunting ground.

        Wait. We don’t have to imagine. Just look at all the states that do not interfere with the citizens right to keep and bear (carry) the most effective tool of self defense ever invented. (Just ask Mr Colt).

        As to terrorists, our best protection is and always has been our freedom and our refusal to be afraid.

        • Sidewinder

          I can’t argue with that…

        • angel-wanna-be

          Vicki, we can do what Turkey has done regarding crime, they believe an eye for and eye___ya steal, you lose a hand, you rape, you become a Eunich__the last time I checked, which was a while now, they hadn’t had a crime of that nature in 15 years!!

        • Save America Susie

          The government is even against water-boarding, so I don’t think they will be doing any Arab punishments, like hand chopping et al..

  • JC

    And soon we will see it hit the same insane levels that are present in London where the average commuter is on camera more than 300 times a day. Take note that the intelligence agancies of the west have been building facial recognition software to identify you wherever you are.
    There’s more going on there than catching terrorists. They’re laying the template for the future of the planet and government control.

    • Raggs

      True ..this is all a set-up for a global governance.

      The immigration problem we are having in Arizona will sooner or latter lead to riots and blood shed and this will be the next “crisis” the dictator needs to enforce more measures of control over the citizens… Probably a micro-chip used to track every move we make along with everything we purchase..
      Of course this will be yet another “it’s best for you” measure.

      • DaveH

        Liberals always seem to direct their attention to saddling the law-abiding citizens with numerous hoops to inconvenience them, while at the same time ignoring the real criminals. Could that be because they identify with the criminals?

        • Raggs

          At the very least I would say they give them sympathy..
          And of course bow to them..

        • Sidewinder

          Always look for the abuse potential. Many of us don’t like the feeling of being considered guilty until proven innocent. Thats what those cameras say.
          I understand you may not feel that way. But where does it all end? Are public restrooms off limits? Anywhere someone could hide, they could make a case for additional security cameras.

          All gov programs want to expand. Where does it end? In your home?
          Its the camel’s nose under the tent all over again…

          The time to take a hard line is in the beginning.

          • Vicki

            Actually the technology to recognize faces by computer does rather increase my level of concern over public area cameras.

          • JC

            Vicki, the people in London have developed a singularly odd habit. They wear hoodies and walk with their heads down in a lot of cases.
            In response the authorities have started putting hidden cameras at ground level facing upwards. They are also working on “Gait” recognition. They want to recognize your walk.
            That’s not creepy at all now is it?

          • Save America Susie

            It’s against the law to put cameras in store restrooms. People have gone to jail for punching holes in restroom walls for the “Peeping Tom” purposes. I don’t think they will go that far. It has to do with vice and porn issues as well in the law. I think having cameras in businesses, has its purpose, aimed at the counter where money is, in case of robberies, just like banks have. That is where I draw the line! But you know, if the government wants to do something, they will find a way–UNLESS we stop them. It depends on the TYPE of government that’s in place.

            Now, regarding London, that’s pretty freaky! But then look at the socialist government that was in place only recently, allowing floods of illegals in too, and now citizens are wising up and voting in Conservatives.

          • Vicki

            Now there is an interesting thought. Get everyone to wear burkas :) Covers the whole face and often shades the eyes. Gov busyodies can’t see your face and as a side effect cuts down on sunburn of the face :)

        • BigBadJohn

          Dave since you want to make sweeping assumptions, how about this one:
          The biggest hurdle to a conservative is the legal frame work. Whenever they can, they use fear to bypass it.

          Example:
          Reagan passed seizure laws that bypass legal procedure by scaring americans about “those evil drug dealers”
          As pointed out elsewhere, Bush/Cheney used fear to its maximum effect to eliminate habius corpus and to wiretap everyone in America. They used that same fear to open the treasury to their conservative puppet masters.

          Get over it – both parties are the SAME!

          • Vicki

            Since both parties have been supporting the war on drugs since way before Reagans time it does seem like the only difference between most Republcrats and most Demopubicans is the R or the D.

            I reccomend that we vote Libertarian. It’s the only way to be sure. If there is not a Libertarian for you to vote for at least vote out the incumbent (In most cases :)

          • DaveH

            BigBad,
            I didn’t say anything about a party. I said Liberals. There are Liberals in both parties (those who believe Big Government is the Solution).

      • Tam McCarter

        Raggs,,
        The microchip has been around for a few years now. We have just not heard much about it. I was writing a book and did research on it a few years ago. It is called “veri-chip.” The technology is here.

    • Kim McGough

      JC and just remember, Bible prophecy, the mark of the beast, that is where all of the control is headed, one world goverment and one money and a false church, everyone needs to stop and look hard at this prophecy and what is going on now—and you know it is terrible how so many just want to insult someone. I think that they are just sick upstairs

      • JC

        There are many corresponding aspects, including the Bible.
        Whatever your motivation, spread the knowledge and prepare.

  • GOODBULL

    PUT THE CAMERAS UP ALONG OUR SOUTH BORDER, THE FEDS HAVE NOT MUST ELSE..

  • Tommy Lamberth

    Reply to HFlashman–May 13, 2010-5:57 A.M.____ I try very hard to see things the way you do but I have extreme dificulties getting my head that far up my A–. If you have all the answers why don’t you throw your hat in the ring and run for political office?

    • Doc Dolan

      I am sure the reason he doesn’t do so … is the same reason most people like him and I don’t run for office! You almost have to be a millionaire (or else be a bought, paid for and highly groomed party lackey) to be able to run for ANY office that can possibly make any changes in our society. A self fulfilling legacy brought to you by the ruling elite.

      The problem of terrorists running around our country, and street crime in general for that matter, would mostly go away if the average citizen was as responsible to his fellow man (and woman) as they used to be. Whatever crime was left would be taken care of by cops, who were not afraid back then of teaching a street lesson or two and being sued for discrimination or brutatlity after the lesson was taught and learned. When I was growing up (I know the dark ages) everyone in the neighborhood watched out for everyone else! I was raised in the inner city, in a housing project, and did not even HAVE a house key until the late 60′s! We never had to lock our doors, or cars! And you did NOT get sued or sent to jail for knocking the crap out of someone, or shooting him if need be, who was breaking into your neighbors house, car, or business. Nowdays it is all about the “Me Generation” … “I want what I want and and I want it all now, if it hurts you I could give a chyt, you owe me – GIVE it to me I am entitled!”. Then along come those who don’t have a trade, are unable to get a real job and actually produce something or provide a service, but they talk real nice and sweet saying, “sure you ar entitled, vote for me and I’ll give it all to you, you ARE entitled to everything even if you won’t work and earn it” just to get elected and stay in power over the masses. Then they have to keep coming up with new ways to stay in those powerful seats, (amnesty for all the illegals as an example) or to see to it that those like them replace them, so they can retire and still be powerful and rich. Can we all get together and shout “Ruling Elite”? “The King is dead, long live the King!” THAT fellow readers is what has precluded most of the problems we face today, along with those who found out that if they sat around and cried woe and scream they “were owed” for percieved wrongs in the last 2000 years, the “gov’mint would give them everything!”

      PERSONAL RESPONSIBILTY & HELPING OUT YOUR NEIGHBOR. Two major things we have lost as a society that have lead us to this catastrophe of a government (BOTH Parties for a very long time now) full of power hungry, know it all kings and queens, who supossedly know better what is best for us than we do.

      Remove them ALL starting in November 2010 and let it be known that the average person on the street is responsible for themselves and thier family, and thier neighborhood, good or bad. Need a little help to make it through a tough time – your neighbors will help, just like they always used to – if you were willing to work and at least try and help yourself, but not forever!

      The Founding Fathers set it up so we could have whatever we wanted basically, as long as we were willing to work for it legally. Along with the freedom to do so! We have lost so much of that, I fear we will never get it back.

      We started out as a soverign nation, let’s get back to it! Start by CLOSING the borders against ALL illegal immigration and smuggling and EMPTYING every elected office, replacing them with true Americans (as was intended in the beginning), NOT career politicians!

  • Al Sieber

    Most Americans want the government to protect them and take care of them anyways, they’ve gotten use to it, and now expect it. there are cameras on our borders, they don’t work. Those that sacrifice their freedom for security, deserve neither!

    • JC

      There were cameras at the Pentagon, hundreds of them…and I still haven’t seen a plane. Doesn’t mean I want them on the streets.

  • pete

    This is just one more piece of the giant puzzle that the progressives have been working on for almost 100 years. The picture on the box is one of a one world government controlled by a few wealthy families around the globe. When the puzzle is complete, which will be soon, if we don’t tear it apart, there will be complete control of your life from wake to sleep. Forget owning anything. You’ll be told what to eat, what to wear and what to think. Every second of your life will be monitored. Good Luck! Remember, some of us died trying to save you!!

    • Save America Susie

      Sounds like China!

    • JC

      Sounds like a repeat of 1776 .

  • Leo

    To Raggs : What riot and blood??? Are you out of your mind??? Arizona enforced FEDERAL LAW !! Do you know , when you become US citizen and get your papers it says : You HAVE TO carry on PROOF OF CITIZENSHIP with you ALL THE TIME . This is the LAW of LAND , for god sake . In Germany police WILL STOP for no reason except you are speaking foreign language and asked for documents . If you don’t have ones they put you in jail .

    • Barb

      Leo, I believe Raggs is referring to the fact that there has been some violent protests in Arizona and California already by the illegal immigrants. It will get worse especially with instigators like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson on board. There has been a lot of property damage and it won’t be long before there is bloodshed, if you don’t believe that you are very naive. The law in Arizona is a good law and I pray for the people of Arizona every day because it is going to erupt into violence and good and innocent Americans are going to be hurt if not killed.Osama Obama can’t wait for this to happen!

      • angel-wanna-be

        Your right Barb, but sadly, it doesn’t matter when or who puts this law into effect, there is going to be a backlash, it’s pratically unavoidable. What I can’t believe that the Obama Administration knows full well this has been a serious problem and refused to step to enforce the law. He now ridicules Jan Brewer, for having the kahunas to enforce it. It’s not going to be pretty, but no change is.__We need to get it started, and get beyond the backlash as quickly as possible, with the least amount of people getting hurt.

        • angel-wanna-be

          My Grandmother once told me as a little girl, “Courage is being afraid, but doing what you gotta do anyway.”

      • Raggs

        Barb.. Thank you..

        To clarify my post…
        My meaning of the Arizona immigration problem is that sooner or latter the illegals will riot leaving a trail of blood.
        This will give obama the “crisis” he is looking for to enact further restrictions on our freedoms.
        In case you may not have noticed obama uses every means possible to take an advantage of a crisis.. Take the health care reform into account… The far left insisted it was a crisis but as we all know this was simply a move for a bigger government and more control over us.

        • Barb

          Exactly Raggs! And you are welcome. Obama is orchestrating this “crisis” too, that’s why he sent Sharpton and Jesse, guaranteed they didn’t go on their own!

          • Al Sieber

            You’re right they’re threating to burn Phoenix down like L.A., and its instigated mostly by outsiders who come here and cause trouble and try to incite a riot. Al Sharpton has been caught in a lot of lies, in fact he is a “big lie” himself. they’ve have been busing protesters here from L.A..

          • JeffH

            …guess who’s promoting and supporting the “protests”. Does SEIU ring a bell?

            SEIU Members March For Immigration Reform Across The Country
            http://www.seiu.org/political/issues/immigration/

          • Tam McCarter

            Barb,
            I am so glad people see this crisis creator for what he is. I can’t believe that people can’t see what he is doing with the money crisis. It gave him the ability to grab people’s property with his so called “reverse mortgage.” I can’t see how it is trustworthy at all. And goverment backed cash for gold so called helps. To me he is grabbing at all he can. Everyday there is something in my email about something backed by him to help pay your bills or refinance your home… power grabbing to the hilt!

          • Kim McGough

            You have those three pegged. And Mr. O making fun of the new law, Someone has to do something right or wrong, And by the way he is a god to most of the world, not just his supporters here, so beware world,sometimes you get what you ask for

        • Barb

          Yup & that’s too bad AlSieber, It could get ugly too. Al Sharpton if the truth be known hates Mexicans almost as much as he does Whites, that’s why I know he was ordered along with ol’ Jesse to go there. They could care less about the illegals they are just there to keep the pot stirred up. If it gets way out of hand they will probably get huge bonuses for a job well done too! Phoenix is such a beautiful city and so are the people. I hate to see this going on but Gov. Brewer is right!

          • Al Sieber

            Barb, what else our gov. is doing for Ariz. is not renewing the contract for the speeding cameras, I hope she does it for the red light cameras also. most of these contracts go to foreign companies. JeffH, thanks for the links.

        • Independent

          The mantra in the White House is “Never let a good crisis go to waste.” Rahm Emanuel has stated that several times and apparently he pulls the strings on the Obama puppet.

        • kate8

          Obama and the rest of the lefties have been using the new Arizona law to fan the flames of “racism” for maximum effect. Most of them have not even read it, because they don’t care what it says. They are just using it to incite more anger on both sides.

          • JeffH

            kate8, you are 100% correct on that. Holder as of today hasn’t read the 10 page bill, yet he’ll use the leftist biased media for his information source to make comments.

          • Save America Susie

            Kate8, Its all mind games. There are people out there that totally believe them too. Talk about broad sweeping statements & Stereotyping the Conservatives.

  • Barb

    Bloomburg is an idiot! Period! Cameras are only there to spy on Americans. The terrorists aren’t going to be stopped by any cameras. They will probably sit there and watch the terrorists plant a bomb and do nothing for fear they will be called racists and social profiling, but they’ll charge down and grab a tourist if he takes off his shirt! Give me a break, just one more freedom that SOB and his cronies are taking from us!

    • Raggs

      Very well said Barb……
      Most people will never see that this administration is using “security” as a means of control…
      And it is kinnda ironic the only ones being controlled are the citizens while the real terrorist have nothing to worry about.
      The terrorist are laughing at us, mocking us and celebrating our ignorance!!!!

      • Sidewinder

        The “Real” terrorists put those cameras there.

    • JeffH

      Barb, this is the same Bloomberg that formed MAIG…who wants to disarm America.

      • Barb

        JeffH I would love for them to TRY to take away our guns! That could be fun!! They come to my door they better be ready to meet the devil!

        • Sidewinder

          lol….Hmmm.
          Careful now…

        • JeffH

          Barb, if they come to your house they were sent by the devil himself!

    • Tam McCarter

      Barb,
      that is the absolute truth! If one of us was caught on film carrying a soda, they would construe it to mean whatever they want to. But Terrorist can get away with everything…esspecially with our muslim dictator.

  • Right Wing

    This is a prime example of how our freedoms have been slowly eroded along the gray margins. Cameras are good for public safety…but they intrude on the right to privacy. GPS tracking is great to locate lost children…but if widely accepted and mandated intrudes on the right to privacy. By degrees the rights offered us under the Constitution will erode. If you think that the answer to battle home-grown terror is to monitor public (moving to private) spaces then get in the bread line and surrender your freedoms now. You can call it religious persecution if you like but my solution is to have all followers of islam chipped like pets. They are a scourge on the sane portions of the human brain that simply believe all those who do not believe as they should be enslaved or murdered. They accomplish their goals through terror, razing building, and generally trying to force a return to primitive life in order to subjugate the people under martial law. These morons should not be feared, just watched.

    After reading that, I trust many of you will say right on! Many will say that this is how the government views the Tea Party. Here is my Dr. Jekyll to Mr. Hyde above…both responses would be correct. The real answer is not to be reactionary to any situation that is provocative, review what history has taught us, and make the best decision we can. Right now, the best decision we have is to weed out our own government and push back the tangled corporate branches to expose the USA. Many call US a corporatist or a socialist state. Either one is not good and if we could agree that real change is needed the place to start is fixing the problems INSIDE our own borders. The fallout can be sorted from there because Americans are good at that. The metaphor of the Phoenix comes to mind as out of the ashes the bird was reborn. Incidentally it is also the capital of the 48th state (last continental addition). Maybe this is the Alamo of Constitutional reform? Off to clean floors and paint today so have a blessed day all.

    • DaveH

      Forget Privacy, Right Wing, I am worried about much worse. Imagine how easy it is now to track a political dissident and dispose of him/her far away from the eyes of the public.

      • Raggs

        Yeah no kidding….
        They are already doing thier best to shut down any news or radio broadcasters that see through thier lies. Imagine how easy it would be to eliminate one of us….

        • Sidewinder

          Right.
          And don’t forget the Eye In the Sky.

          • JeffH

            That would be “GOOGLE” eye in the sky!

          • Sidewinder

            Google…In a way sure..

            I meant military grade satellite technology. I know they can read license plates with it.
            Its just getting overbearing…

          • JeffH

            Raytheon style.

          • kate8

            JeffH, I know someone who recently retired from Raytheon. He says that they have technology that we can’t even dream about. Most people would not believe it even exists.

            There is so much that has been hidden from us. The military industrial complex is light years ahead of anything of which we are aware. Those who think that our government is looking out for us – well, let’s just say that if we knew all the plans they have in store for us….

            You just can’t make this stuff up.

          • JeffH

            kate8, A very good friend’s father was the former CIO for many years with Raytheon and is nearing retirement after 40+ years Raytheon/Hughes. My buddy work in procurement for several years in Richmond, CA.

        • Tam McCarter

          Raggs,
          I tell my family that because I am so outspoken, if something happens to me it is most likely the idiot in the whitehouse or his henchmen! Christians are not allowed to speak, we are considered terrorists by the dictator in the whitehouse.

      • JC

        First thought – FEMA Camps.

  • pete

    The “terrorist” they want don’t even exist! They’re after good ol’ boys who like guns and God! That monster McVeigh was a mad man. He’s gone now. We The People are not terrorists! WE ARE AMERICAN CITIZENS, PATRIOTS, AND HAD ENOUGH!!!

    • Sidewinder

      We The People are not terrorists! WE ARE AMERICAN CITIZENS, PATRIOTS, AND HAD ENOUGH!!!

      And that to them Pete….is Terrifying.

      • JC

        Damned Straight it is.

    • Tam McCarter

      Yep, they are after those of us who believe in Jesus and guns. We are in deep trouble like England if we allow gun control. I had an email a while back where the English were warning us not to let them take our guns. Obama has really boosted gun sales! I love it!

    • Kim McGough

      McViegh, maybe gone, but there are plenty more like him, home born terriost

      • Al Sieber

        The founding fathers are considered terrorists according to FEMA.

        • JC

          So are veterans returning from overseas. They took an oath to defend the Constitution and that terrifies the government doesn’t it?

  • http://gmail i41

    Since all democrat socialists fear the people, like the tea partys, they keep trusting the muslim Chicago thug. When dems complain about the virital fence at the border, they think cameraes are the answer. They have been trying to convience the citizens for years, cameraes are your friend. I see in SD, there is a tril for man killing a deputy sheriiff, that got shot not using a search warrent to go checking out private property at his whim, by the newspaper he had done it several times at different locals. Should do that with the illegals at the borders. But it would unravel the socialists mental bubble!

  • Loves God

    Spot on, WARLOC! For those who are ok with cameras watching everybody’s every move go to http://WWW.911truth.org and read The Top 40 Reasons to Doubt the Official Story of September 11th 2001. Wake up America before it’s too late!!!

  • DaveH
  • http://Haggisdad@Msn.com Abby

    A prson that has nothing to hide –Hides nothing.

    • Sidewinder

      Abby-A prson that has nothing to hide –Hides nothing.

      Well Abby I think one must remember the abuse potential of total survaliance.
      What if all you wanted to hide was your political veiws, your love of freedom, from a government that does not like nor respect freedom?

      Bob Livingston’s true identy is hidden. I doubt thats Bob’s real name. Right to privacy is not synonomous with guilt.
      I understand the cameras are in a public place. But its a bad road to go down, because once it starts it will only expand.
      It shows a lack of respect for the individual.

      • DaveH

        Besides,
        They rarely deter a crime. Rather they just provide evidence after the fact so the police can make money, the lawyers can make money, the courts can make money, the news media can make money, and the prisons can make money. Do the criminals cost us as much as the government solutions?

    • niotakid

      Abby, so if you have nothing to hide go NAKED, SEE WHAT HAPPENS thats the way the Government wants you to think, so keep believing our crooked Gov’t and see what happens its coming to your HOUSE and you better watch better to be prepared than not. Ken

  • Bill

    If the people trusted their govt., you wouldn’t need any cameras.

  • http://verizon.net LaRebelle

    Seems that a lot of taxpayer money is being spent against terrorism. The problem doesn’t seem to be our technology, however. It lies within our justice system, or lack of it. Harsh punishment and military action are needed. These terrorists are treated with kid gloves and given more rights than an American citizen. It is disgusting. How about immediate execution? If the death penalty is not applicable to terrorists, then who deserves it? The world is laughing at our leaders’ weakness. My future vote will only go to those who take extreme measures against terrorists and who protect our borders/national sovereignty. We need conservative leaders who will stand their ground.

    • niotakid

      LaRebelle, Right On, Check into the TeaParty they want honest conservative people to govern, check into what Jefferson had said,Ken

  • http://espionageaction-actionadventure.blogger.com Stephen Russell

    1984 has Come to NYC IF they get those camera systems up.
    Make Times Sq safter but how about other city sections IE Harlem, Bronx?

    Imagine this nationwide (save Hawaii).

    LA CA would need 400,000 cameras alone.
    Very scary if abused using AZ law.

    Yes I favor the AZ illegal immigration law.

  • Marilyn

    The words of Norman Matton Thomas (Nov 1884-Dec 1968) who was a six time presidential candidate for the Socialist Party of America:
    1944
    “The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of “liberalism” they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened….I no longer need to run as Presidential Candidate for the Socialist Party. The Democrat Party has adopted our platform.”
    Check it out: Google Norman Mattoon Thomas
    Cameras mounted on all city streets is a two sided coin… protects as well as robs decent citizens. But, that is only a small part of it. The cameras can watch the terrorist rip a city apart and then go after them. Does that make sense? By the time the camera catches a terrorist in the act, it is too late. BOOM! I think Terrorists need to be stopped at the borders of the United States and not permitted to set up their war mongering camps. Those are sprinkled all around the country. Why are they permitted to do that? Set up cameras in their camps and watch their activities. Why not?

    • Save America Susie

      Chilling!

  • Raggs

    I think the cameras need to be placed inside capitol hill.

    To solve the problem with terrorist we need to start at the top of the food chain..

    • Sidewinder

      You got it buddy!

    • kate8

      And yet, they now say that they want more secrecy as to what goes on in the WH.

      There is much they are hiding from us.

  • Sidewinder

    Marilyn substitute the word Socialism for Corportist or Fascist and I couldn’t agree more.

    Socialists try to uphold personal liberty.
    In socialism the state owns the corporations. I don’t see that here.
    Heres a definition:

    A socialist believes in little to moderate government intervention on personal matters and extremely high government intervention on economic matters. They are strongly opposed to capitalism as an economic system and try to uphold personal liberty at the same time.

  • gordon

    It is a proven fact that Obama is not an American citizen, so everyone can understand his interest to presure the State of Arizonia to stop with their deporting of illegal imigrants,duely cause he could be next.

    • Mick for thought

      Where was that proven? Did George W find the fraud? Did the Clinton’s with all their power and money? Did John McCain with all his fiends of power? Do really think that President Obama was not thoroughly investigated by many levels of government security agencies during his prolonged campaign? Please give the birther nonsense a much overdue burial.

      • kate8

        Mick, if you ever looked beyond your left-wing propaganda sites you’d know this stuff. There have been many folks investigating this issue, and they’ve turned up a great deal of incontrovertible evidence. It’s just not being reported in the media.

        It’s certainly not hard to find, if you look in the right places.

      • JC

        Gee for a guy with such an illustrious career as an American he sure seems to suffer from a complete lack of documentation or credibility.
        On the other hand…over in Kenya…seems like everyone has an Obama story to tell. They’re proud of their prodigy and Michelle likes it when they visit his “homeland”.
        He’s an imposter and should be impeached forthwith.

        • Save America Susie

          JC, Yes, that video was pretty eye opening when Michelle said what she said about BO’s “homeland”. But even IF he is born here, he should be required to show his full LONG FORM certificate just to be OPEN and HONEST with the American People. He said his would have a “transparent” presidency, and then its been anything but. He hides everything from us. John McCain showed his long form, why not BO??? I am beginning to wonder if MAYBE there is something embarrassing on it. The short form doesn’t list some of the most basic facts. I have not made nay conclusion yet, but that is because the long form has not been produced. Exhibit “A” is missing. Every America has the right to see it. Jefferson even said a president is a public figure when he is president.

          • JC

            Never Happen. Not until “we the people” bring this altogether corrupt system to a halt and put it under a very bright light. Starting with “Audit the Fed”.

  • eddie47d

    PFFFF; Are you afraid you might someday get caught with your girlfriend while your wife if out of town?

    • JeffH

      Oh eddie47d, such a joker! hardy har har har!

    • Sidewinder

      Well what if someone in government had a personal vendetta against you?

      Suppose you were right, and embarrased an IRS agent in front of his pals?
      Or caught a Federal Official with an underage girl?

      That happens. When I lived outside DC, I took a trip out to north western Virginia. We went into an out of the way restaraunt. There was 1 car in the parking lot. It had diplomat plates on it. I walked in, and there he was, sitting at a table in an empty room with what looked to me to be a 14 year old girl.

      I thought it must be his daughter, until he started making out with her at the table.
      He gave me a hard look, and I just turned away.
      That happened. 1994

      • Mick for thought

        So, who was it?

        • Sidewinder

          I don’t know, some Dipomat.
          I didn’t get involved. He had a present on the table for her, and she opened it, it was a necklace. She was all smiles.

          Last thing I wanted was trouble. Didn’t want to go pissing off a dipomat.
          A-Holes like that need prison time.

          • Sidewinder

            No it wasn’t Clinton! LOL!

  • eddie47d

    Dave H; What did yor ex-wife have to do with surveillance cameras or security? We all get bum raps with or without cameras.

    • Barb

      eddie47d Awwwwhhhh Shut-up!!!!! if you can’t contribute something to the conversation, go back to sleep!

      • Mick for thought

        Gee Barb sure can have a temper when someone says something she does not like.

  • eddie47d

    Tam M. 9:07; Dick Cheney got the ball rolling in our acceptence of the Patriot Act and he is still pushing it.Nobodies putting cameras in your church or home unless you do it to yourself.Pray all you want and stay strong in your faith.

    • JeffH

      eddie47d, never one to disappoint!

  • eddie47d

    Kate8; Your’re always bellyaching about Obama not doing enough about the terrorist problem.Then you say we shouldn’t worry about these bumbling terrorists. Which is it?

    • kate8

      eddie47d, I have no idea what you are talking about. I’ve NEVER “bellyached” about Obama “not doing enough about the terrorist probem”. In fact, I’ve never mentioned anything even remotely like that.

      I think we’d all be a lot better off if Obama would do NOTHING AT ALL about anything. My opinion of him is that he is a corportist agent, a puppet, put in place by the globalist elite to preside over the total destruction of America. He IS a terrorist. The most dangerous one of all, because he has usurped our highest office. He is a complete fraud, an illegal alien, and an enemy agent. The only thing I want from him is for him to go quietly when he is arrested for high treason.

      Try getting your facts straight next time.

      • JeffH

        kate8, good job! That pretty well sums it up!

      • Barb

        kate8 WOW! Very good post!!! This is exactly how I feel!! You just said it so much better! Way to go!

      • JC

        Bravo!

  • http://GOGGLE vaksal

    AS FAR AS THE RING OF STEEL,BLOOMBERG AND THE FOLKS IN GOVERNMENT,HAVE THEIR THINKING CAPS ON BACKWARDS,CAMERAS ARE A WASTE OF TIME AND BIG MONEY,WHY? WELL IF THE (U.S.STATE DEPARTMENT) DID ITS JOB AND STOPPED LETTING IN PEOPLE INTO THIS COUNTRY,THAT ARE TWO BRICKS SHORT OF A FULL LOAD,THEIR WOULD BE NO NEED FOR THESE CAMERAS THAT DONT WORK ANYWAY,AND THEIR WOULD BE NO NEED FOR (HOMELAND SECURITY)ITS JUST TOO EASY TO DO THE SIMPLIST THING AND THAT IS TO STOP INVADING PEOPLES RIGHTS HERE IN THE U.S.A. AND LET THE ARMED AMERICAN PUBLIC STOP THE WOULD BE CRAZYS,BY BEING AN ARMED POLICE FORCE AS WAS USED DURING THE SECOND WORLD WAR TO DEFEND THIS NATION FROM POSSIBLE ATTACK INSIDE THE BORDERS OF THIS NATION,THE COST ,HARDLY NOTHING,SO YOU SEE THE POINT IS ITS ALL A SHELL GAME,BECAUSE THESE LEFT WING GROUPS ARE PUTTING UP A TOTAL CONTROL POLICE STATE,ALL OVER THIS NATION AND THIS BLOOMBERG GUY AND MANY OF HIS LEFT WING SUPPORTERS WANT TO HAVE TOTAL CONTROL OVER THIS NATION AND OVER EVERY HUMANBEING THAT LIVES IN THE (POLICE STATE) FOR IF YOU SAY ANYTHING AGAINST THE (CHOSEN FEW,THE ABOVE THE LAW POWER STRUCTURE,WELL YOU WILL BECOME THE RACIST RADICAL JUST BECAUSE A PERSON SPEAKS UP (FREEDOM OF SPEECH) IF ITS AGAINST THE LAW I WANT TO KNOW,AND IF THATS THE CASE THAT THESE CONTROL FREAKS WANT TOTAL CONTROL ,LET THEM SAY SO,THEN AT LEAST WE WOULD KNOW WHO THESE TRAITORS ARE,CAMERAS ,THEY SHOULD PUT HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF THESE UNITS IN EVERY GOVERNMENT OFFICE ,STATE ,COUNTY AND FERDERAL OFFICE THEN THEY COULD FEEL SAFE,HA,HA,HA,WHAT A JOKE ALL THESE BLOOMBERG TYPES WOULD BE SITTING IN PRISON IF THEY HAD A SYSTEM LIKE THAT SET UP ANYWHERE THEY WENT,THE POINT IS THIS IS A WASTE OF TIME AND THESE PEOPLE KNOW IT,THESE PEOPLE IN POWER( FREAKS MUST BE VOTED OUT AND PUT IN THE YOUNGER GENERATION TO GOVERN THIS NATION,TOO MANY OLD FARTS LIKE MYSELF RUNNING EVERYONES LIVES INTO THE GROUND,AND YES ITS TIME FOR CHANGE,TIME TO GO BACK TO A REPUBLIC AND NOT TO A FACIST POLICE STATE.

    • gregory

      im wondering if folks will start to destroy these commie cameras! it may be as easy as putting on a mask and taking a baseball bat to them, it seems that a person without a face cant be caught if he has a couple of dozzen folks who saw him some where else!!!

  • eddie47d

    Tom Teacher;No disrespect to the Tea Party folks but using the term Osama Obama is far worse than the term “teabagger”. So where’s the firestorm about that?

    • Barb

      eddie47d, Osama Obama is my term and it is true, he’s a radical Muslim plant to take down our country from within. That’s why no firestorm for that. We are the Tea Party, you homosexual lefties are the tea baggers. That’s what your own people labeled it as! So get it straight!

      • Mick for thought

        The proof of your allegations is what Barb? Is it that old picture Obama had taken in traditional attire when he visited his father’s homeland? So if I went to Scotland and wore a kilt, and the picture made it on the Internet, you would call me gay.

        I have read everything I can find from every web site from the left and the right and there is no evidence. There have been lots of photo-shopped pictures that get debunked within a week of hitting the Internet.

        Personnaly I think George W never quit drinking. He just took it in the closet but I have no proof so I will not call him Boozo Bush.

        • Mick for thought

          PS. If all the lefties were homosexuals there wouldn’t be so many because their life style does not produce offspring.

        • jbird

          You have no proof of Bush’s drinking, that’s just supposition on your part. And Bush’s physician never had to tell him to cut back. Obama’s did.

          • kate8

            Yes, jbird, plus, Obama has admitted to using drugs like cocaine, and we have no way of knowing if he still does. He certainly smokes like a chimney – they had to designate a bathroom in the WH so he could go there to smoke. We know for sure that he has a problem with addictive behavior.

        • Save America Susie

          At least you are looking carefully for evidence. That’s good. I’ll give you that point. We all should be doing that.

      • JeffH

        Barb, some food for thought about some regular appearances by some from the left. Don’t allow youself to be goaded y the liberals.

        Alinsky practiced what he preached. He said, “Tactics means doing what you can with what you have … tactics is the art of how to take and how to give.”

        He uses eyes, ears and nose for examples…

        Eyes
        “If you have a vast organization, parade it before the enemy, openly show your power.”

        Ears
        “If your organization is small, do what Gideon did: conceal the members in the dark but raise a clamor that will make the listener believe that your organization numbers many more that it does.”

        Nose
        “If your organization is too tiny even for noise, stink up the place.”

        “The real action is in the enemy’s reaction. The enemy properly goaded and guided in his reaction will be your major strength. Tactics, like life, require that you move with the action.”

        Alinsky was hated and defamed by powerful enemies, proof that his tactics worked. His simple formula for success…

        “Agitate + Aggravate + Educate + Organize”

        • Save America Susie

          JeffH, I think we have all seen what they are doing for so long now these last few years, that they have lost the element of surprise. Their method has become predictable. They have become boring as well. They have become like little children throwing temper tantrums at times. Contrast the calm, peaceful Tea Party demonstrations. The real ones, not the rumor fabrications. No video tape has ever been produce of violence at a Tea Party. Even though dozens of TV cameras rolled! Even though there is a reward of $100,000 by someone for proof at a legitimate Tea Party that can be verified. No one has stepped forward to claim the prize. The Tea Partiers are not agitators. They just want to express their opinions and have the right to do so guaranteed by our Constitution.

    • JC

      If you’re looking for sympathy for Obama, you’ve come to the wrong place.

  • HeadOutOfSandintoHell

    Sad to say that I’m obviously new to watching what going on in Politics. Well not all that new. Just new at expressing my opions and wondering what the hell happened. I think my head has been stuck in the 1980′s. I even remembered the amnestity offered to immigrants back then. Terrorism was an abstract concept to many of us in the US. I think people like me remember terrorism as plane hi-jackings in the middle east. I even remember Charlie Wilson’s war. And it with that in mind that I’d like to remind people that it’s sometimes the people with little background that can cause so much trouble. When good people do nothing for the right reason. It allows the bad eggs to do the wrong thing, for the wrong reasons. Cameras are a good tool if used properly, but like someone already pointed out, they can be used for more than what is intended. Like all technology advances bad things can come of good ideas. It’s all a matter of perspective. I don’t honestly even know what my political views would be seen as. I believe in the laws our Forefathers laid down in the Constitution. That much I know. After that it’s a bit sketchy. I’m willing to discuss issues with anyone. I honestly would like to find out where I stand and where I draw the line. I’ll check back and see who comments on this and decide if I’m willing to share contact info.

    • Allan

      You seem sincere and concerned about your country, and that’s all the introduction you need.

    • Save America Susie

      I have a cousin who is Conservative like I am, and she has recently asked me NOT to send her any more political stuff on e-mail. She can’t handle the stress. She will still VOTE but doesn’t want to discuss anymore. So she had her eyes wide open, and now has crawled back under the rock to hide. It was making her too depressed.

      But I APPLAUD you for your courage in stepping out into the sunlight of reality. Painful though it may be at times, it will not hurt as bad in the long run. We are mostly Concentrating on VOTING in June and November in the midterm elections. We are all too aware of the Freedoms we are gradually losing, especially lately.

      Modern day proverb: “A Top heavy government is doomed to topple eventually, Because it has no visible means of support”. And I might add, In government, “Less is More”. It helps to know others feel the same way about restoring our country to its former principles & vision.

  • eddie47d

    Raggs 6:39am; I think we need more CONTROL over our borders,more CAMERAS,more border patrol and more documentation to keep track of who is coming and going.Isn’t that “a best for you measure”? If you want it for one person then it should be good for all. Maybe Bloomberg isn’t so far off the track after all. We all want to control someone else but don’t you dare do it to me.

    • kate8

      eddie, illegal invaders crossing our borders should have no expectation of rights to privacy or anything else. It’s a whole different scenario from what rights should be afforded to citizens.

      The border should be equipped with whatever means necessary to stop illegal entry. But they have no place monitoring American citizens. And we shouldn’t need them to monitor the activity of illegals within this country. This is absurd.

    • Raggs

      ed…What the hell are you talking about?
      If your made up words is supposed to be a prior post I made than you need to learn how to read!!!!
      I have some advise….. Find a different playground dude!!!!

      • kate8

        Raggs, ed must have gone off his meds. He’s hallucinating today, just flinging stuff to see if it will stick.

        • Raggs

          Yeah and to think… It’s people like that are in charge of the country.

  • eddie47d

    We all have to be concerned about big brother and people have been predicting evil and chaos, well, before 1984. Nobodies putting cameras in your home and they certainly shouldn’t be any in a public bathroom. That’s where your civil liberties would be involved. Nobody pays attention to these cameras anyway.(look at all the bad guys who commit crimes never knowing they are on camera).So why all the boogeyman hype? Look what fools we make of ourselves on the internet and I’m no exception. Everyday people get into trouble on their computers. (credit card scams,threats,bullying,sales fraud,under age porn,ect.)We get used and abused all the time on the internet and that’s a bigger threat to your liberties than a camera. Go into a subway system and you’ll be glad there are cameras around.

  • Robert

    all this and oboma and congress and the courts are violating the constitution. you all need to read atlas shrugged by Ayn Rand. then you will find out what is going on and what the results will be later on. if you allow all these things to keep going on then you deserve what is comming.

    • Save America Susie

      I’ll put it on top of my stack of “to read books”.

  • JeffH

    Presidential Documents
    U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement
    NOTICE: Part II
    DOCID: fr04fe09-106
    DOCUMENT SUMMARY:
    [[Page 6115]]
    Presidential Determination No. 2009-15 of January 27, 2009

    Unexpected Urgent Refugee and Migration Needs Related To Gaza
    Memorandum for the Secretary of State
    By the authority vested in me by the Constitution and the laws of the United States, including section 2(c)(1) of the Migration and Refugee Assistance Act of 1962 (the “Act”), as amended (22 U.S.C. 2601), I hereby determine, pursuant to section 2(c)(1) of the Act, that it is important to the national interest to furnish assistance under the Act in an amount not to exceed $20.3 million from the United States Emergency Refugee and Migration Assistance Fund for the purpose of meeting unexpected and urgent refugee and migration needs, including by contributions to international, governmental, and nongovernmental organizations and payment of administrative expenses of Bureau of Population, Refugees, and Migration of the Department of State, related to humanitarian needs of Palestinian refugees and conflict victims in Gaza.
    You are authorized and directed to publish this memorandum in the Federal Register.

    (Presidential Sig.)
    THE WHITE HOUSE,
    Washington, January 27, 2009
    [FR Doc. E9-2488
    Filed 2-3-09; 8:45 am]
    Billing code 4710-10-P
    http://www.thefederalregister.com/d.p/2009-02-04-E9-2488

    • Barb

      JeffH Thanks! I don’t remember seeing anything about this in the lamestream news. Do you! Add another $20 mil to Obama’s mounting tab! I wonder what Israel thinks of this!

      • Sidewinder

        Yeah, it wasn’t on i Witless News either.

    • red alert

      Do you know that the Palestinians get a lot of funds from all over the world? Unfortunately for them, each time they had elections, they choose the wrong person to represent them. Each time, they get screwed by their Palestinian leader. The Palestinian government, is a corrupt one. It started with Yaser Arafat, and continues as we write our little posts here.
      So, if the Palestinian government gets more money, the poor guy, will not gain from it, only their corrupt leader, you see?

  • Earl, QUEENS, NY

    This same mayor, prior to Shahzad’s arrest, suggested that maybe he was an American who opposed national health care. He also suggested tighter gun control laws!! Absolute nonsense!! The SUV, and the materials found in it, are far less restricted than guns, yet they can kill far more innocent bystanders!! In an old episode of All in the Family, people thought Archie was absurd in suggesting that all airline passengers should carry a gun during flights. On the other hand, had the Archie Bunker rule been in effect on 9/11/01, isn’t it possible that the World Trade Towers would still be standing today??

    Well, what can you expect from a mayor who thumbed his nose at our term limits law by running for a third term? As for cameras, it may not be a bad idea – if we display signs, such as “I’m not a terrorist – I just oppose Obama-care!”, or “Read the 2nd Amendment Mike!!”

    • Save America Susie

      Earl, Did you hear the latest? Flash bulletin! This morning I got an article off the Associated Press titled:

      “Obama Threatens VETO of Obamacare as Cost Estimates Soar above $1 Trillion”.

      But they really wouldn’t veto all of it. Just parts. How is that possible? Can they pick and choose which parts to veto? What is happening here?

      Amazing Holmes!

  • Mick for thought

    Sorry folks but I am finding humor in the scary metaphors of Nazis, Big Brother and Concentration Camps. Please be real. These are surveillance cameras not storm troopers and barbed wire. They can have facial recognition software that picks up the face of a known terrorist and alerts authorities to his location. They can ID a perpetrator after a terror attack or a street crime.
    What is the concern to us as law abiding citizens? Someone will have seen us scratching something inappropriate or picking our nose? How does this actually effect our personal liberties? Does this camera morph into a robotic soldier, jump down off the pole and ask us for our papers.
    If you want to feel invaded just Google Earth your home address. When I did I got a picture of my home with my kids playing in the pool and me weeding my veggie garden. Might have been in some trouble if I was inclined to grow pot because Google does not own the satellite that took the picture of my back yard it just rents time from the government. The picture was from 2007 because the next year we bought a bigger inflatable pool.

  • Bubba

    Racial profiling works for me.You see a terrorist just shoot him.

    • Mick for thought

      How do you know the terrorist? Do you shoot all middle eastern looking young men or all young white guys who look fit with a military haircut?

      • Claire

        Mick for thought–The way things are going, I would be sorely tempted to shoot at an eastern looking man. I am to the point where I don’t like them at all! Every time I see one I think “possible terrorist.” I know this is not “fair” but I can’t help the way I feel about them. There are radical Muslim/Islam groups right here in the U.S., and I have become very suspicious. One never knows. And it is the “not knowing” that I don’t like.

        • Claire

          Whoops! “middle eastern”

          • Claire

            And yes, I realize there are Americans out there that are perfectly capable of terroirsm against America.

        • JeffH

          Claire, that is what the terrorist want you to do, live in fear. To do so is an immoral victory for them.

          • Claire

            JeffH–I do not live in fear—I live in distrust. If I were ever confronted by a terrorist I think I would DO what I had to do, same with a criminal.

          • JC

            Exactly Claire, Recognition, concern and preparation are not fear. They are good ideas.

        • kate8

          Claire, I have to say, I love your spunk. You are definitely no shrinking violet.

          This post just makes me chuckle.

        • Save America Susie

          Claire, I understand what you are saying….It is definitely a crazy world today. Though we don’t want to be profiling, the fact remains–though NOT all Arabs are terrorists, all recent terrorists have been Arabs. Those are facts. There is a definite list of attacks by Arabs, since 1979 over the years which can be googled for proof.

          On the other hand, I have friends who are Arabs, Blacks, Mexicans and Asians. My church is very International in make-up. I knew a fine, good Arab couple at classes at college for years. Someone in my church is an Iraqi Christian lady, whose family has been here since she was a little girl. They are American Citizens now. So Arabs can be good people too. They are not all scary.

          During WW2 my Irish Mom had a dear Japanese friend who she was very close to in R.N. Nurses Training. In those years, everyone was thinking about the Japanese being possible War Terrorists. So her friend had to go to the Internment Camp. My mother went to visit her and they had to speak through the wire fence, tears rolling. She told my Mom not to worry, that she understood why they had to do it and she would not be there forever. Mom became a Army Nurse & then returned home to civilian life to her nursing career, and married my Marine Dad. Years later, this dear Japanese lady became a missionary. My Mom and her wrote letters back and forth threw the years, and then finally had a reunion with other nurse friends. Now they are both in their 90′s. I think friendship transcends the nationalities.

          • Claire

            Susie–And I understand what you are saying–not all of them are terrorists or criminals. I realize that. I think I resent the fact that there are some that come over here and wreak their havoc on American soil. This is what I despise. I have zero tolerance for these type of people.

  • DaveH

    Have they got any money left to spend on more surveillance?
    This is amazing to me:
    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Senate-votes-to-boost-credit-rb-4115144592.html?x=0

    Could it be that they are making a preemptive strike against those agencies that might soon be downgrading the US debt?

  • Eag1e

    I glad to see more surveillance, City like New York needs it.

  • Barb

    Tell you guys what we should do! L.A. is Boycotting Arizona for enforcing a good law. So why don’t we all boycott New York City, and ask all our friends and relatives to not go there either. It’s mainly a lib city anyway. Then the New Yorkers can deal with the cameras and their idiot politicians!

    • Mick for thought

      Sure Barb boycott NYC because they are trying to improve security in the number 1 target for terrorist in the USA. Have not seen many comments from you that make any sense but you sure can jump on any bandwagon that comes your way.
      Arizona is just blowing smoke to push an agenda. As the chief of police along the illegal’s highway said, “We are already doing this job. All this law does is make Arizona pay for a federal program and place law enforsement in a bad position.”

      • Mick for thought

        Sure Barb boycott NYC because they are trying to improve security in the number 1 target for terrorist in the USA. Have not seen many comments from you that make any sense but you sure can jump on any bandwagon that comes your way.
        Arizona is just blowing smoke to push an agenda. As the chief of police along the illegal’s highway said, “We are already doing this job. All this law does is make Arizona pay for a federal program and place law enforcement in a bad position.” Oops, forgot spell check last time.

        • DaveH

          So, we should leave hands off people who are here illegally, but we should snoop on and harass good citizens.
          The typical topsy-turvy morality of a Liberal.

          • Mick for thought

            How does a camera watching for bad guys harass the ordinary citizen?

          • JeffH

            Based on a government that can’t be trusted, who says they’re not using it to snoop dog on you or me.

        • Allan

          If Arizonans thought existing police procedures were dealing satisfactorily with the crime associated with illegals, there wouldn’t be a strong majority support for the new law.

          Based on this support, if the Arizona legislature ignored the public, they would be seen us “not listening to the will of the people”, which is what many of us hold against Obama.

          I think it is telling of people whether they respect majorities, especially in other cities, states, or countries. As much as I don’t like some policies in various places, I won’t try to interfere. To me, that is a liberal litmus test. I may not go to or do business with such places, but I want the same respect from them.

          As for an agenda, sure, the agenda is lowering crime and representing the majority wishes. We can’t pick and choose when we criticize government for doing so, or can we?

      • Barb

        Really Mick??? Because I have a friend whose in law enforcement both in Arizona and New Mexico. The one in Arizona can’t wait for the law to be implemented, the one in NM wishes their Governor would take a flying leap. From all that I have heard Mick, a vast majority of the legal residents of Arizona are for this bill including the vast majority of law enforcement. So you can go take a flying leap too. Oh and by the way Mick, I was being sarcastic about La La Land, L.A. boycotting, Moron!

        • Raggs

          Barb..This link is being taken over by the liberal progressives..
          Have you noticed all they want to do is blame this on W and call opposition to the pharoh baggers. I repeat my previous post.
          Those of you that insist on dicrimination and name calling of people are in fact in hiding of your own insecurities.. This works the same way when you insist on using blame to the previous administration.
          I shows your weakness of mind and lack of self control!

          • Raggs

            Oh…Isn’t that a funny thing?
            Speaking of weakness of mind and lack of self control I’m pretty sure some of the comments I have heard from Pharoh fit perfectly into that category… No wait a minute…. Queen pelosi has said things also…
            Hummmmm…

          • JeffH

            Read and understand the meaning of these words by Alinsky.

            “A Marxist begins with his prime truth that all evils are caused by the exploitation of the proletariat by the capitalists. From this he logically proceeds to the revolution to end capitalism, then into the third stage of reorganization into a new social order of the dictatorship of the proletariat, and finally the last stage — the political paradise of communism.”

            http://www.crossroad.to/Quotes/communism/alinsky.htm

          • Raggs

            Jeff..

            I read the link… And many of the things I have been seeing / thinking are exact in the context of my overwhelming belief of obama.
            Note— not in obama but of—
            That was a good link and I hope many more on this site will read it.
            I hope by now everyone understands that the government is using FEAR against them.. We need a way to counter this.

          • JeffH

            Raggs, this applies to those that come in to “upset” the balance of this website. The whole game is to disrupt, annoy and make people have to explain themelves, put them in a defensive posture. If one doesn’t allow oneself to play their game, under their rules, the game is no longer a viable option and they must move on to find another player(victim).

          • kate8

            Jeff, Raggs, we need to take a lesson from the way progressives work. They keep us on the defensive by constantly attacking, ridiculing and confusing the issues. On the greater level, they use fear to keep us off balance. They are focused and intent on their agenda, while keeping us busy countering their nonsensical onslaughts. And by keeping us embroiled in fear.

            We need to regroup, to form a cohesive and deliberate plan to bring about the results we want. We need to be just as determined, just as focused and just as directed and well-trained to go on the offensive rather than always on the defensive.

            Conservatives are not, by nature, ones to use any deceitful means to accomplish their ends. And we don’t have to. But we must learn to stand strong in truth and let truth lead, without apology. We need to learn to push forward with resolve and strength. Defeat is not an option.

            We need to refuse to be moved by Alinsky tactics. We need tactics of our own. It’s time we unite, immovable, to save our nation.

          • JeffH

            kate8, as you well know, I’ve been trying to get that understanding across for quite some time now. Emotions are a mans worst enemy and these hacks put it to good use. I refuse to play that game. I prefer the game be played on my(our)terms and so should everyone else.

        • Mick for thought

          Once again I ask a question and Barb goes off insulting people. One more time for the record —- I am not a liberal. I am a retired soldier and veteran. I have my bronze star in a place of honor and although the VA has awarded me a 70% disability I work a 50 hour work week and the last time i wa unemployed was 1977 (for 1 month).

          • Barb

            Thank you for your service and all I called you was a moron because you insulted me first. I don’t take anything from anybody these days not even a decorated Vet! Sorry you are so bitter but your president isn’t going to help you either!

          • JeffH

            “One of the factors that changes what you can and can’t communicate is relationships. There are sensitive areas that one does not touch until there is a strong personal relationship based on common involvements. Otherwise the other party turns off and literally does not hear….

        • Mick for thought

          I think I will trust the opinion of a 50 year police veteran with more than 20 years as the chief of police over friends of Barb.

          • Mick for thought

            Barb I do not know you from Eve. All I have to evaluate are the things you write here on this blog. Often it just comes across as ranting and raving without substance. There is a lot of this coming from both sides of the political spectrum. All I am trying to do is introduce thought among the paranoia wherever I see it. No insult intended.

          • Mick for thought

            PS I am not bitter, just concerned.

          • JeffH

            More concerned about assisting an agenda than a country.

          • Al Sieber

            Geez Mick, have you read Ariz. senate bill 1070? we’re tired of the violence here in Az. you wouldn’t want the people of AZ. to take the law into their hands, would you? well it’s that bad. the police can’t even ask these people for I.D. because it’s racial profiling, we have too.

  • http://herringtons.home.mindspring.com lighterknot

    Orwell 1984, Ayn Rand …I read those authors when Reagan was considered a communist when 1984 rolled up on the time clock I thought; if Orwell had not written that book the oligarchy would not be doing business under the table, the power of words.

    As I write, highly civilized human beings are flying overhead, trying to kill me.
    G Orwell.
    Funny how both parties have used this guy. Makes you want to be a psychologist,

    I know every one is tired of me saying; we lost our freedom when we condoned the Bomb and weapons of mass destruction but I can’t say it enough.

    In the land of the Brave and Free megatons of security; we have purchased our annuity now our kids must pay the price. – Some of you are the grand kids and you’re pissed…why didn’t we all die for liberty?

    • Mick for thought

      Concur.

    • BigBadJohn

      “As I write, highly civilized human beings are flying overhead, trying to kill me.
      G Orwell.
      Funny how both parties have used this guy. Makes you want to be a psychologist, ”

      Funny how both parties conjure up Hitler and the fascist state.
      While Bush was president, he was called a fascist and likened to Hitler on a daily basis. Now guess what the right is saying about Obama?

    • Barb

      Lighternot, I wasn’t born yet when “WE” condoned THE BOMB but if we hadn’t Hitler would have or some other equally insane nut job, several were working on it at the time if I remember my history right. It’s been 65 years since we used the one bomb. I think the US, the land under GOD, is the reason why there is still life on this planet. Any other country would have blown this world to smitherines by now. It may not be ideal but it keeps most countries half way civil more or less. Oh and Mick my posts make your posts look like a first grader wrote them. Naw, that’s an insult to all 1st graders!

      • kate8

        Barb, I, for one, always appreciate your posts.

        You may be right about the US being what’s kept the world going thus far. In Revelation it speaks of the “restrainer” being removed before the Great Tribulation begins. I have wondered, could that restrainer be our Constitution and moral guidelines? Because we are seeing what happens as these things slip away….

  • Truth-Seeker

    Excellent article, Bob. I’m glad to see that many here are becoming aware that 9/11 and many of these other “terrorist” acts (shoe bomber, Detroit bomber and Times Square bomber)are actually false-flag attacks meant to cause fear so we will give up more of our freedoms in the name of “security”. They are also meant to drum up more support for the phony “War on Terror” and the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.

    Who actually did 9/11? Think Mossad–their specialty is false-flag attacks and their fingerprints are all over it. Who benefits from the wars we are fighting in the Middle East? Think Israel. In Iraq we took out their chief enemy, Saddam Hussein, and now they want us to attack Iran–which would be a very foolish thing for us to do. They also have interests in keeping us in Afghanistan. How does all of this benefit us? It doesn’t. Of course the Mossad had plenty of help from dual-passport Israelis high up in our own government–some of whom originated and signed the PNAC document.

    Lastly, is Obama really a Muslim? Hardly–his main handlers are David Axelrod and Rahm Emanuel–both Zionist Jews. It appears that the Detroit bomber episode last Christmas was designed to put pressure on Obama to send more troops to Afghanistan–which he subsequently did. As Ariel Sharon said in 2001: “We control America, and the Americans know it.” We need to do something about that.

    • Mick for thought

      So we need to get off our oil rich diet fed to us by oil sheiks and become energy independent. I have no issues with off shore drilling or anyway we can break their grip, but I do not want to see another irresponsible large corporation jeopardize the industries or wildlife of our coastal communities again.

  • Gerald McKinley

    To you people who think security cameras are a good idea, all I have to say is your freaking crazy. Cameras have worked well so well in London, they have no more bombings. These cameras are just another tool to watch the American people, because these progressive idiots know we are feed up with their crap. Do not you people see that want to control every aspect of your lifes. Please wake up America because pretty soon it will be too late for Liberty without bloodshed. Remember Thomas Jefferson, The tree of liberty must be replenished!

    • Mick for thought

      Are you channeling Tim McVeigh or Glenn Beck?

      • JeffH

        raise “questions that agitate, that break through the accepted pattern”

    • Mick for thought

      What were your thoughts on the warrant-less wire tapping of the previous administration?

      • kate8

        …the endless loop….

        • JeffH

          …the tables are slowly turning once more…wait til November when the spin gains a few revolutions.

      • JC

        I was disgusted and thought Bush should have been impeached for that alone. But he’s gone and now we’re dealing with a straight up criminal imposter in the White House. The problem is systemic…not red or blue.

  • eddie47d

    Raggs;I was responding to your 6:39am comments then you will know what I was talking about and I believe I quoted you right. No Meds involved! You also made a comment about putting cameras on capitol hill and that way they could start from the top. Well,that was done years ago and you can watch them on TV anytime you like.

  • eddie47d

    Raggs again 2:05pm; If bringing up Bush’s name shows a weakness of mind and a lack of self control. Then what about all the people who bring up Clintons name? Are their minds completly gone then? The name calling! Whew! Go check out Barb’s and several others,it’s been nonstop.Your way off the wall.

  • Alfie

    First and foremost – terrorists are not being kept OUT of the country. To allow the borders to remain open is the heighth of ignorance. All of our “visitors” are not only from south of the border. It’s like draining a ditch while the flood continues to pour in. Common sense is sorely lacking here. “Palestinians” have been invited to move here at our expense. Who’s to say all of them are peaceful? The alien influx is out of control, and attempts are being made to use technology to infringe on our liberties more and more, using “security” as an excuse. It’s a case of welcoming and catering to the aliens, while sweeping aside the rights of millions of citizens. It is regrettable that there are those who are unable to realize the ramifications of – and precedents set – by such a move.

  • eddie47d

    Kate8, No meds for me but you sure need some if you can’t remember how much you bellyache about Obama. I know it’s normal on this site but at least be honest with youself (1:49pm) and so many other times.

    • Raggs

      ED…your not in here for a constructive intelligent conversation,
      your a rambling basher…

      I am however stating that the broadening intrusion by the government is way out of line with the constitution and our privacy..

      All of these so called “terrorist” attempt’s in the past months are simply set-up to give more power and control over us to the government… If you cannot see that than well…

    • JeffH

      “The job then is getting the people to move, to act, to participate; in short, to develop and harness the necessary power to effectively conflict with the prevailing patterns and change them. When those prominent in the status quo turn and label you an ‘agitator’ they are completely correct, for that is, in one word, your function—to agitate to the point of conflict.

    • kate8

      Sure, I criticize Obama, but not about his lack of efforts to “keep us safe”, or whatever you said. I am, in fact, outraged by his very presence in office, and his contempt for America, our founders, our Republic, and our people.

      I stand by that.

      • kate8

        That was meant for ed.

  • MadMarty

    Want Liberty?

    Vote Libertarian.

  • JeffH

    eddie47d,(9:39,9:46,9:55,10:02,10:27,10:44,11:27,3:22,3:34,4:08)

    “The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself.”

  • Steve

    I guess it just wouldn’t be a normal day if eddie and the rest of the liberal socialists weren’t in here pissin all over the page….. ;-)

  • http://herringtons.home.mindspring.com lighterknot

    Can I blame the computer for my miss spelled words it’s on automatic
    Replace Concur with Conquer

    • I’m just sayin

      Sorry liberalknut, nice try but you can’t blame that one on the computer. “Concur” IS a word, and when correctly spelled, your spell checker won’t pick it out for you. It will only highlight MISPELLED words. Your p.c. can’t read your mind…..not yet anyway.

  • http://gmail i41

    Mick, the idea we need to get off of our oil rich diet,pull in your reins one minute and don’t swallow the go green BS. I take you are smart enough to read and comphend. Look up the Stansbury Report on the Rocky Mts. and read the Williston Basin Survey, there is over 2 trillioin barrels of oil there and in Williston Basin there is over 503 billion barrels of oil. Williston was known about in 1951. If our present oil usage for the USA was increrase from 11.3 million barrels a day to 15 million barrels a day. The Williston Basin would last for over 2000 years. And that doen’t include all the natural gas there. The green crap is just that, ethanol, boifuel, cellulose plants are fine, and will give us a small boost in fuels, but it takes farming, harvesting timber, and if wind, is your dream, we do not not have the grid work or ability to get a stabilized power. How much time a money was wasted in Spain. There are wells already drilled, values shut off, just waiting to be turned on to a pipeline and sent to the few refineries left. There is a Canadian pipeline running from the border to the gulf, which goes right throught the Williston feild, going right to the gulf. So Canada can sell its crude to China, who we are up to necks in China’s rear, who we in debt to. Go ask any Democrat or any Republican, senator or representative, what in the hell is going on and why we are not putting people, to work to build our own pipeline, like we did with the interstate highways system. Problem one, to damn simple, second we would be out of debt, third, the UN and the muslim numnut, it would choke off the dollars going to his diaperheaded muslim numskulls bros left. Fourth, the envior morons would mess their dresses and get the climate warming bull would run like a flood broke loose. The UN and loony would have such a blockage between their ears and all parts between, it would create a melt down. There isn’t any politian brave enough to tell the world, greenies, the fake junk science loons, and any socialist dem, to go suck a rubber rope, half hitched around their worthless necks.I alway love when you simple minded egg sucking, socialist democrat idoits, start trying to talk like profeesors promoting grenn bull. You dumb illegimate spawn couldn’t screw 2 peices of pipe together. Either that or most college trained apes live in dream land and not in realality. Did you ever see a hearing in Washington with real workers, or people on the spot, what we get is stuff shirts, wanna be leaders and attonneys with out a clue. I know what I’m talking about, since for six years I called, phoned, emailed, and tried to go to spots where Congress people are supposed to be to tell them the facts. I don’t get answers, emails, or they send out their poly sciec 3rd year students to talk to me, and who cann’t copy the facts down or know squat. Give it a try. We know Holder and Onumnut make comments about things they haven’t read or don’t know the facts, it is the democract way.

  • DaveH
  • JPW-

    I think Bloomberg ought to take his camera money and invest in some public bathrooms.I was in NYC for the auto show a few weeks back and walking down those sidewalks near the convention center was like walking through a plugged urinal on a hot day.You will never see one of those goofy I love New York city bumper stickers on my car.Every time except after a hard rain that place stinks to high heaven.

  • chuck b

    141

    you couldn’t be more right.

  • indigo
  • Alfie

    Another thought:

    Have any of you thought of the ABUSE that would be possible with cameras? What a tool to use against criminals as well as innocent individuals … maybe an individual is in a nasty divorce/custody situation, and a third man or woman is involved. Cameras show them going into motels……or maybe it’s an IRS infraction, or speeding. Maybe it’s a heated political race. Bill collectors? They will find you. The potential for abuse is virtually unlimited.

    Does anyone trust this – or any government – enough to give it visual access to your activities, 24/7? Intellectually – and thinking as the government acts now – cameras in New York is step 1 in a plan to install cameras nationally – outside and inside your homes and workplaces – which would be the end-goal. Do not kid yourselves – it could happen.

  • Carolyn

    Ronald Reagan “The Franklin Cover-Up”, “Trance Formation of America”

  • http://herringtons.home.mindspring.com lighterknot

    Barb I believe you personify the bright young educated idiot; you are right I didn’t get nearly enough education and never will; read a hell of a lot of books though.
    It was two bombs we dropped on Japan, and Hitler was already defeated there was really no need for such an amoral act against innocent civilians. And I don’t think God is on our side even if there was one he certainly would not have condoned such an act. No person of moral honor can; it’s against the golden rule which is the primary premise of all relationships.
    The hawks in Washington saw it as the great opportunity to enslave a free people and concur the world which they’ve been systematically doing with great success. They are using both parties to keep the country split and ready to kill each other. They have their launch mob organizers and I’m not sure the authors of this blog aren’t on their pay role.
    We still send our young men and women to die for liberty which is bullshit real war is obsolete since the bomb; war now is political police actions for national interest it might have always been – it’s a racket.
    We just condoned going to war because we thought; were told… a nation had weapons of mass destruction. The powers that be knew damn well they didn’t – have we ever attacked a nation with nuclear weapons. In the eyes of the world nothing is brave about us we are a nation of damn cowards hiding behind and threatening the world with our massive arsenals of nuclear weapons.
    This forces a world government upon us and guess whose after it…I think you may have to speak Chinese soon or the worst will happen as we die from war crimes.
    I hope to hell I’m as dumb as you think I am.

  • Steve

    Liberalknot says: Hitler was already defeated there was really no need for such an amoral act against innocent civilians.
    ……………………………………………………………………………………………..
    Liberalknot you’re such a dolt. Hitler was defeated, but we didn’t nuke Germany so what’s your point? Japan was still fighting us and was not going to quit! It’s been proven that bombing Nagasaki and Hiroshima saved thousands of American soldiers lives, but I’m sure being the bleeding heart liberal that you are, you would have been happy to trade American lives for the poor Japanese m f ers that bombed Pearl Harbor!
    I’m sure you have a soft spot in your heart for those poor misunderstood Muslum terrorists too, don’t you?

  • JeffH

    Dumb? No! Illusions of grandeur? Absolutely!

    Can I assume then that you support the president and his completely radical agenda just for the sake of a grander more peacefull United States of Socialism?

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