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FRC: Openly Gay People In The Military May Threaten Religious Liberties

March 9, 2010 by  

Openly gay people in the military may threaten religious liberties, says FRCFamily Research Council (FRC) president Tony Perkin’s invitation to speak at today’s National Prayer Luncheon at Andrews Air Force Base outside Washington, D.C., has been rescinded, causing the organization to question whether allowing gays in the military will not infringe on religious freedoms.

Perkins, who is a veteran of the Marine Corps, linked the retraction of the invitation to President Obama’s statement during the State of the Union address on Jan. 27, where he called on Congress to lift restrictions on service in the military by openly homosexual individuals. In the weeks since, the FRC has heavily criticized this proposal and urged Congress to uphold the "don’t ask, don’t tell" policy that excludes gays from military service.

"As one who took the oath to defend and protect our freedoms, I am disappointed that I’ve been denied the opportunity to speak to members of the military solely because I exercised my free speech rights in a different forum," Perkins said.

He also expressed concern that this portends a "serious threat" to religious freedom.

"Such legislation would not merely open the military to homosexuals. It would result in a zero-tolerance policy toward those who disapprove of homosexual conduct," Perkins warned.

Meanwhile, the support to repeal the current policy appears to have gained momentum since the State of the Union speech. In recent weeks it has been endorsed by several top military officers, including General David Petraeus, the commander of U.S. forces in the Middle East and General Ray Odierno, the commander of U.S. forces in Iraq. Retired General Colin Powell, who served as President George W. Bush’s secretary of state, also supports this position.
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  • Mary

    I think gays should serve in the army. They should have a place just for gays. Something like the Gays Marines of America. We’re a doom country anyway. I think is not fair for the rest of normal men to serve and died for the country when the gays enjoy the benefits too. BHO is one of them he’ll take care of them.

    • L, USA

      Abominable behavior of such nature (acting on lust after ones own gender) is against nature, and certianly against natures (nuture of creation) God. It should be punishable as a felony in civil law and warrent Court Marshall of the highest degrees, according to the degree of offense(s) committed, at anytime during enlisted/commissioned duty in the U.S. Armed Forces! Period

      • eyeswideopen

        L, USA, and the bible says masturbation is a sin, so what will you do with all those soldiers who perform that act? Kick them out?http://biblechristians.org/answers.cfm?ID=105
        http://www.i4m.com/think/bible/bible_mast.htm

        How about all those teenagers who pleasure themselves? I know what you will say,” it doesn’t mean that”. You want to interpret the bible to fit your beliefs or needs, while if you take everything literally, you would be stoning your own children when they disobeyed.

        • michael

          I agree. The Christian right also forget the part that says “Thou shall not judge,Lest ye be judged”

          • finish it

            you better go back and finish that scripture you quote because you just perpetrated a LIE about what God said. the scripture reads “Judge not lest you be judged BY THE SAME MEASURE.” AND we ARE to judge other Christians. as for homosexuality that is an abomination – again God’s words. “A man shall not lie with a man as with a woman. it is an abomination.” that’s the problem with people who want to use scripture for their OWN agenda. if you misquote it you HAVE SINNED. sorry that too is in God’s Word.

          • L, USA

            Jesus said, “I judge not, but if I judge, I would judge righteously but I will have mercy and not sacrifice”. feel ‘lucky’ for that if you want the Truth.

        • eyeswideopen
        • Yandle

          eyeswideopen,
          You comment, “the bible says masturbation is a sin”, if the Bible says that than give chapter and verse but the misinterpretation of Genesis 38:9 (which does not mention masturbation) does not prove your point. Not one verse in all your links says one word about masturbation. God says Sodomy is a an abomination and you cannot justify it period. We are all sinners by our fall in Adam but when GOD explicitly and in detail says something is an abomination, we are not to contradict GOD! When the Devil tried exactly what YOU are doing here in saying “it is written”, “Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God”.

          • eyeswideopen

            Yandle, the Catholic Church sure seems to think so, http://www.rtforum.org/lt/lt67.html
            goodmorals.org/sterile.html
            So, Yandle, all those men who masturbate using a magazine showing women naked are lusting while performing that act. I guess you also disagree with the bibical statement about lusting also?
            Gee, seems like you just pick and choose which parts of the Bible that you want to obey.

          • eyeswideopen
          • finish it

            eyeswideopen says:
            March 10, 2010 at 10:33 am
            Yandle, the Catholic Church sure seems to think so,

            yea and the Catholic Church also says you can’t pray to Jesus or the Father but HAVE to go thru Mary. THAT is idolatry and a sin – in fact it violates the FIRST TWO COMMANDMENTS. as for masturbation being a sin – i believe that falls under the fornication portion. oh by the way ADULTERY is a sin too. hey let’s stop beating up on the homosexuals – God loves them too but He HATES THE SIN THEY COMMIT. in fact He hates the sin I commit and all sin that every single one of us commits.

          • Libertytrain

            to finish it: Your Catholic Church and mine must be different? re Mary.

        • Yandle

          eyeswideopen,
          The roman catholic church is not the final authority, the Inspired Word of God is, READ IT FOR A CHANGE instead of listening to fallen man for your information. The Papists have been Anti-Christian from day one. I did not say lust was not sin. Your whole argument above is wrong. God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah because of the SIN OF SODOMY but God never destroyed a nation because someone looked on a woman to lust after her. Sodomy is an abomination and not be condoned in any society. You have said in another post that you are a Christian but you have been in opposition to every Christian principle where I have seen your comment. If Christ is not your LORD, then most certainly He is NOT you “Savior”.

        • Yandle

          eyeswideopen,
          Genesis 38:9-10 does teach to destroy the seed of man (abortion) is sin and by the justice of God deserves death.

          • eyeswideopen

            Yandle,only you could equate masturbation to abortion. The scripture talks about spilling seed on the ground. It doesn’t have anything to do with abortion. But I should be used to the fanatics trying to tie abortion to everything.

          • Yandle

            eyeswideopen,
            If you can show me one word in Genesis 38:9 that has anything to do with masturbation, please show me. The Hebrew word ‎zera` (zeh’-rah) is used 230 times in the OT and means seed, fruit, and posterity. It is how the human race continues. Onan went in unto his brother’s wife, he removed himself so that he spilled it on the ground, lest he should give seed to his brother and if he had not spilled it on the ground there would have been a child (a human being). I did not equate masturbation to abortion because masturbation is not in the verse. I am sorry if I made you mad but I am simply stating what GOD’s WORD says.

          • eyeswideopen

            Yandle, you said “destroy the seed of man(abortion)”. What does destroying the seed have to do with abortion? You don’t make me mad, I am just amased that you can take a situtation and turn it into a anti-abortion statement. If the seed is on the ground, there is no fetus, so how do you relate that to abortion? Paul says at the end of Romans 1, that sinfulness that God condemns is also manifested by covetousness, malice, envy, murder, slander, insolence, rebellion against parents, ruthlessness, deceit, pride and the like. He is then able to say in Romans 2:1 “Therefore you have no excuse, whoever you are, when you judge others; for in passing judgement on another you condemn yourself, because you that judge are doing the very same sort of sinful things.” This means there must be no singling out of homosexual sin as somehow more heinous sin than the sins that heterosexuals commit. Heterosexual activity outside of marriage is a sin, just as surely as homophobia and same sex activity is. As Christians we are not supposed to single out one sin as more important than another to fit our comfort zone, and to make that judgement which is God’s.

          • Yandle

            eyeswideopen,
            I did not bring up Genesis 38:9, you did and misapplied it. It is not my judgment call that seed in scripture is identified as a human being and that sometimes hundreds of years before that person was born, that is what God said not me. I did not turn this into an anti-abortion statement, but that IS what is in Genesis 38:9. Christ said judge righteous judgment and over and over we are taught to make judgment calls. It is God’s word that says some sins are greater than others, not me. It is God’s word that says some shall be beaten with many stripes and some shall be beaten with few stripes. It is God’s word that says some receive the greater condemnation. It is not our call to pass judgment that a person WILL spend eternity in Hell but it is ours to warn them of their sin and of salvation in Jesus Christ. God said ” When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand. Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul”. Ezek. 3:18-19

          • eyeswideopen

            Yandle, show me where God or Jesus ranks the sins, letting us know which ones are more sinful and will be dealt with more harshly. I would love to know where in the bible it shows that fornicators are worse than idolators. Or that adulterers are worse than the greedy, or robbers. Feel free to give the verses and I will surely read them.

          • Yandle

            eyeswideopen,
            I am wasting my time and the space on this post by stating the truth to you. The truth of the Bible that I stated above has no effect on you. You hear the sound of words but not the sense of words. “To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.” Isa. 8:20 From all of your comments, I see no light in you (may God have mercy). I have already gave you verses to your question above, so what good will it do to give more. Why do you think Christ said “some shall be beaten with many stripes and some shall be beaten with few stripes”? Why do you think God’s word that says “some receive the greater condemnation”? Why do you think Christ said “whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come” if there is no difference in sins? Why do you think the inspired word affirms “If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it”? I will not do your studying, you must. The Bible is abundantly clear about your question. Listen to what Christ asked over and over “have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God”.

          • eyeswideopen

            Yandle, it is important for people to realize that God’s prime concern is people, not religious structures. They exist merely to channel God’s word to people. God’S law is not a code arbitrarily imposed on people to restrict their freedom unreasonably. It was intended as a guide to happiness. Jesus never intended that religion do the damage to people that it has. It is horrible how many religious leaders have persecuted and even had people tortured for their beliefs. God respects peoples freedom, and faith is a gift.People must believe freely. The function of religious leaders is to set an example, to draw people to God by their own deep faith and by the beauty of their personal lives, not imtimidate people into sterile external observance. True religion comes from the heart. It is a deep relationship with God and should bring peace and joy and love to people when it is free. God is not honored by worship that is forced under threat of SIN or PENALTY. Nor is God honored by subservient obedience to religious laws devoid of love. God is pleased only by the free expression of the soul that truly loves him. Anything less is counterfeit and serves only the short-term needs of religious institutions.
            Religious leaders model themselves after civil governmnents and treat people accordingly. In doing this they fall into the same trap the the scribes and Pharisees fell into, making religion a tangible set of measurable religious observances, with is legalistic and superficial. Thus they become the focus of religious observance rather than God, and it is their endless rules and their rituals rather than the love of God and concern for others that occupy the peoples attention.
            God never intended that religion become what it is today. Jesus came to earth to try to free people from that kind of regimented religion where people are threatened if they don’t obey the rules and rituals invented by the clergy. Jesus came to teach people that they are God’s children and, as God’s children, they are free, free to grow as human beings, to become beautiful people as God intended. That cannot be legislated. He wanted his apostles to guide and serve, not to dictate and legislate like those who govern this world. You would do better to live what you preach, soon as you stated I will not do your studing for you, you showed exactly who you are. Do you think that is a statement Jesus would have said? It became clear that you have knowledge but not patience and no love for your fellow man who has less knowledge.

          • Yandle

            eyeswideopen,
            Most of what you have said in this last comment, I am in agreement, some of it I will read a second time to be sure of what you are saying. I am one who studies for my own spiritual growth and have for over fifty years and there has been very few days in my life that I have not spent time studying. I have worked all my life for a living therefore my time is something I do not want to waste. I said all of that to say this, I will not waste time trying to help someone study if I think that person is only going to use that information to be a scoffer and mock God and His Word. If anyone is sincere and want to know more about God’s Word, I will do all that is in my power to help that person if I am capable.

          • eyeswideopen

            Yandle, The church has assumed the role of Christ’s stand-in, but has picked only the aspects of Christ’s life that appealed to their need for power. The church is the extension of Jesus life in the world, but if it is to be effective, it must model the way Jesus lived. Nobody was afraid of Jesus when he came to earth, because he understood their pain, anguish and looked past their failings. The churches have chosen to model itself on a legalistic, judgemental Christ, molded in its own image. The church was intended to be the medium of Jesus’ message, but instead it has become the message, and the living Jesus got lost. Religious leaders/teachers miss the point of religion and dishonor God, by teaching a God who is merciless and calculating and vindictive, which fills people with guilt that makes them afraid of God. Jesus tried so hard to help people understand that God loves them as they are. He knows they are human. He made them that way and it is human to be weak and imperfect. God did not intend to make humans little gods. He created each to do a little job, to make their little contributions to help others and perfect his creation, and gave to each just what he or she needs to do that job. The rest of the personality is imperfect, but that’s alright. The person will grow to become, in God’s good time, what HE wants that person to become and not what the churches are dictating.

          • Mike In MI

            Yandle – Friend, step lightly in this area, it’s ancient culture.

            The passage demands we apply ancient oriental cultural (customs) thinking, not today’s Western (Occidental) cultural ideas, if any kind of Godly right dividing of the Word is to be achieved. This instance occurred roughly 3800 yrs. ago during Joseph’s Egypt experience. Moses’ Law was finalized, maybe 280 yrs later, just before he died and Israel entered the promised land under Joshua. Their lives and culture were very different. They were people like us, in every aspect, except the ways they had settled on to deal with issues of life. You can shred your witness if you get this wrong.

            Tamar, the lady in this passage, had been married to one of Judah’s sons, Er. Er died childless. A Godly brother was expected to sire a male child to the dead brother’s wife so the dead brother’s side would have an heir. This protected the dead man’s wife and inheritance in her old age. God figured that out because He honored the girls, too. They weren’t just chatel. They were to be blessed and protected because they raised, nurtured and trained the kids who were to provide worthy seed unto the Mother of the coming of the Promised King. (Nobody but God knew whose lineage that might be. Genetics, training and everything that goes into a strong lifeline were at stake…Godly families, strong minds, strong bodies, strong ties.
            Mary’s whole body, mind and human-side systems were in peak condition to recieve the male, God-side stuff from Jesus’ Daddy…not Joseph.)

            Onan disobeyed what God and Judah expected a Godly brother to do. Onan pulled out and the ejaculate hit the deck. Onan knew his choice to pull out had a cost. He bet on being able to believe his way out of it. Pride and a vaunting of self put him outside the boundaries of God’s help and the Evil One had his way with Onan.

            Back then, BEFORE JESUS CHRIST and the GRACE OF GOD towards men life, and the laws of God, didn’t bend much. Doing what Onan did was about like jumping off a 500 foot cliff. It was a great flight until the law of God (gravity) caught up with you at the bottom. They called that , “God killed him”, because laws God set were known to be inviolate.

            Our culture doesn’t look at things the way they did. Grace is a very big deal. But, one of these days, it is going to end, casting people into strangeness. If consideration of your ways leads you to believe you should make a change, believe God raised Jesus Christ from the dead and tell God, “Jesus Christ’s lordship is better than my own”. Right now is time.

          • Yandle

            Mike In MI,
            For I am the LORD , I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.(Mal 3:6) God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good? (Num 23:19) Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. (Heb 13:8) The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever. (Isa 40:8) And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail. (Luke 16:17) Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. (Matthew 24:35) For ever, O Lord, thy word is settled in heaven. (Psalms 119:89) Then answered the LORD unto Job…Wilt thou also disannul my judgment? (Job 40:6,8) For the Lord of hosts hath purposed, and who shall disannul it? and his hand is stretched out, and who shall turn it back? (Isaiah 14:27)
            Cultural does not change God’s Law! God’s Grace and God’s Law do not Change. What is your point; chapter and verse?
            There was no ‘BEFORE JESUS CHRIST and the GRACE OF GOD’! God never bent and never will “bend” His Law.

      • Gerald Brells

        Concerning gays in the military I believe most other developed countries accept homosexuals in their militaries.Why don’t we discuss the situation and find out if there really is a problem with gays or is the real problem the religous fanatics who always claim to have a direct line to God. I would rather be in a fox hole with a gay guy then in a fox hole with a religous nut.

        • eyeswideopen

          Gerald, laughing out loud, excellent point.

        • Joe H.

          Gerald,
          and I would rather be in a foxhole with a religeous nut than a homosexual!!! Perhaps the reason it wouldn’t bother you are more evident than you think!!!

          • phred

            gerald, go ahead and read what Joe H. writes to you—then realize is o who will, and has, accuse people who defen someone or something as being a member of that someone or something. I’ve already told him that’s as intelligent as accusing an attorney who defends a murderer as being a murderer him or her self. His logic doesn’t get much out of the third grade or so.

  • CJ

    I spent 20 years in the Navy (most of which involved integrating woman onto ships), and I continue to serve with veteran’s organizations. I have many friends who are gay, and one is currently serving in Afghanistan (they can do the job as well as anybody). So I think I have an informed opinion here. Most service members don’t care about another’s sexual orentation. It’s more basic than that. For women on ship, and in combat, we separate their living areas, and we’ve associated this with sex. When the services allow open gays, it is perceived the same as co-ed living space. Even in extreme situations, there is an attempt to give gender considerations for privacy. Are we going to make separate living space for gays? It’s logistically impractical. So, does the government just make all living space co-ed? I think not. So the debate continues as long as their are dual standards. The countries I visited that don’t have such a privacy stigma didn’t seem to have as much of a “gay” concern either.

    • Joe H.

      CJ,
      If what you say is true, then why did the survey they did of servicemen say different??
      why did we have a woman here state that she was attacked by women that wanted to have illegal sex with her? And by the way, same gender sex IS still ILLEGAL in the service!!!!!

  • Yandle

    Anyone openly admitting to being homosexual (A SODOMITE) is openly admitting to committing an abomination and any society that condones an open abomination is subject to the judgment of GOD!

    • Leonard

      Yes… but since god doesn’t exist your point is moot.

      • Yandle

        Leonard,
        Only a Fool says God does not exist. If you do not believe before your last breath, YOU WILL believe immediately after your last breath. GOD is REAL!

        • phred

          You can believe that one, Leonard, coming as it does from Yandle who has taken his last….. Oh, wait, he is typing here in the physical plane of existance, isn’t he? So I suppose he has NOT taken his last breath as of yet—-just how is it that he can be sure, then, by his own standards? Oh, yeah, that’s right, by the superiority of the beliefs of Christians everywhere to the beliefs of people of other persuasions. To tell the truth, I sometime forget that superiority clause, and tend to argue with folks like Yandle. I’ll try to keep the superiors in mind, but, being hu-man, I an frail of memory and will sometimes forget!

          • L, USA

            Now phred, God would be ‘life’ all compassing. Would you agree? If so, then does ‘life’ prove death? Do you agree that death exists? Yes? You are not dead yet, so how do you know? You have seen death? So it exists, right? Yet you are alive. Now do you belive that God exists both in life and in death? if so, How can He be dead? or “not exist”?
            The Axiom.

          • Joe H.

            L,USA,
            Do you want a good laugh??? On one of the other threads phred says he is a libertarian!!!! I about cracked up at that one!!! He,s about as much of a libertarian as I am a space alien!!!!

          • Gerald Brells

            Hello Phred,

            We don’t know each other but we are in complete agreement thet Mr. Yandle sounds like a perfect example of a very obnoxious individual. It appears to me that to much religion is dangerous for people with his mind set.

          • Joe H.

            Gerald,
            And too little mind is dangerous to a person with your religeous knowlege!!!

      • Hello?

        I pray that God will bless you and open your eyes, you see ,if you haven’t experienced a born again experience with Jesus Christ, then you are blind and that is no fault of yours. Believe me this is real and you can communicate with God from within your heart and then you know that this is real but if you haven’t experienced this , then you don’t know. I pray that the LORD will take off your blinders and make you a new creature from within. By one man’s sin , sin came into the world and through Jesus Christ we are justified through his sacrifice if we repent and in our heart believe that Christ died for our sins and you will recieve a revilation from GOD and you will love the things that you have hated and hate the things you once loved, he will make you a new creature from within, then you will understand. Satan desires to sift you as wheat and drag as many as he can into eternal torment. Now, forever is a long time and whether you believe or not, this is real. Lenoard, I love you and pray you will see the light, not that I am more intelligent but God had mercy on me and I experienced regeneration of the soul. Just think for a minute, suppose that I may be correct.

        • phred

          “….and you can communicate with God in your heart.” Dear Hello?—get off your horse of superiority! I can do that at will, and it doesn’t involve any Jesus person! All it involves is something we are ALL born with. Your religion is NOT superior to anyone else’ beliefs, you just think it is because it suits you.
          The attempted superiority you and other Christian show, in the form of decided contempt for those of other belief systems and spiritual pusuits shows me exactly what your religion has taught you, i.e., that anyone else is beneath you and your religious superiority. That others, say Buddhists, or Hindi, or Rastafarians are dirt and should be ground under your feet. Please take your preaching to where it belongs, which is in your church and/or church and bible study groups. Display your arrogance for other beleifs there, instead of in a forum where real people try to have conversations. There is not a single post of mine on ANY of the Liberty Digest boards where I try to tell you or anyone else how to believe, yet, in the superiority of people like you and Yandle, that is all you seem to have to contribute! Why not wrap your head around the idea that, especially as Americans, we can, we do, and we have the RIGHT to, decide for ourselves what spiritual pursuit we, as individulas wish to follow, and, insteading of preaching yoru “gospel” to us, contribute to the conversation?

          • phred

            and, Joe, I will say it again and again, I am one of the ORIGINAL libertarians—one who actually believes in what the founders did when they put this country together, when they broke away from the Crown via the Declaration of Independence, then wrote the Articles of Confederation, then the Constitution, then the Bill of Rights, etc.
            Unfortunately,, Joe, people like you seem to not be able to read what those kind of documents say about freedoms, and individual liberties, etc.
            No, I am not a Christian, and I suppose that’s why you think you are being so humorous with your (stupid) comments, but ones religion has nothing to do with being a libertarian. However, YOUR religious views seem to keep you from believing that others, regardless of their citizenry, have those individual liberties that you want to enjoy.

          • L, USA

            phred, Listen to the testimonies many give here. They are for others, not for themselves and are percecuted for their good works. You are the reciepient of grace and mercy, here on Personal Liberty Digest Conservative Politics Board with the rest of we posters (some im-posters but that’s another story..) and are loved. Take heed, I have seen that you have endured for a season, now be strong and remain with us in courage and with understanding.

        • phred

          This reply is to “L, USA”,
          “L,USA”, I read, then reread, then reread still again, your post. It still makes as much sense as this:
          “Sante didn’t bring me no candy. I wanted candy for breakfast. Instead I had to eat the Easter bunny, now I’ll get no candy for Easter either!”
          Where in $#%$#& did you see anything in my post about “God” being dead? Or that I don’t believe in death? Or life? or whatever?
          I find that the Christians give “God” some rather horrendous characteristics, he hates his pinnacle creature, which is us, the hu-mans, he periodically kills us all off, he sends plagues, he is a jealous “God”, etc. But those are characteristics that Christians want their “God” to have. Seems, of course, ludicrous to think that an omniscient being could die. Or would have such base emotions as “jealousy”. Or would create beings so beneath “him” as to necessitate he kill them off from time to time. Or that “he” would give that pinnacle creature a 70 year life span, and that drop-in-the-bucket amount of time would determine how his best creature would spend eternity!
          But, if you find somehwere that I may have inferred that “he” is dead—please, by all means, show me, so I can recind such a statement. okay? Oh, BTW, I just reread your post again—I ALSO never inferred that “God”” doesn’t exist. Heyyyyy, is that your profession? Kind of like a word dentist? You try to put words in peoples mouths? Keep working on that, you may actually get good at it some day, eh?

          • L, USA

            phred, you said;
            “March 9, 2010 at 6:33 pm
            You can believe that one, Leonard, coming as it does from Yandle who has taken his last….. Oh, wait, he is typing here in the physical plane of existance, isn’t he? So I suppose he has NOT taken his last breath as of yet—-just how is it that he can be sure, then, by his own standards? Oh, yeah, that’s right, by the superiority of the beliefs of Christians…”
            —–
            Firstly let me declare repentence before Almighty God, Jesus Christ our Lord; in that while you did, as presented above, blaspheme the Word of God and our LORD, that is not the unpardonable sin and you may be forgiven (I should say here that the one unforgivable sin is blasphemy of the Holy Ghost, never do that because if one does it, he will never repent and be saved>, who ever does that knows it and refuses to care (but do not be decieved, He is able to deliver [keep] us from death); And I ask your fogiveness for offending you if my delivery of of the Word of our God has been unskillfull. The Axiom was primarily ment toward Lenard but you got some of it to because of your mocking, though in jest. Call it friendly fire?

          • L, USA

            phred, you said; “I find that the Christians give “God” some rather horrendous characteristics, he hates his pinnacle creature, which is us, the hu-mans, he periodically kills us all off, he sends plagues, he is a jealous “God”, etc. But those are characteristics that Christians want their “God” to have. Seems, of course, ludicrous to think that an omniscient being could die. Or would have such base emotions as “jealousy”. Or would create beings so beneath “him” as to necessitate he kill them off from time to time. Or that “he” would give that pinnacle creature a 70 year life span, and that drop-in-the-bucket amount of time would determine how his best creature would spend eternity!”
            —–

            Oh that you would know HIS truth! GOD is Love! Love never ends and is first pure, vaunth not it’s self, seeks not it’s own (but for to the good others), hopes all things, endures all things. Our God, the God of eternity first created man from the dust of his created earth, then from man, HE created woman (Heb. n. ‘out-of man’) for his help meet.
            The beginning was perpetual and blissful, life was eternal for mankind. Then, as prior events enabled, the once beautiful arch angel who was lifted up with pride in heaven and who had said haughtily, “I WILL BE LIKE THE MOST HIGH, I WILL ASCEND MY THRONE INTO HEAVEN”, yet was sebsequently bound and cast down into earth (Gods’ footstool), spoke a lie to the woman with the man and that deciever, decieved them and they did sin by eating the fruit from the tree of good and evil. That brought forth death. Early life spans were nearly a thousand years and the earths atmospheric density was 8 times what it is now. The upper atmosphere was encased with heavy gases protecting the ecosphere.

    • finish it

      this is true and He also said THOU SHALT NOT MURDER. yet we continue to do so every day in the abortion clinics. this is just as heinous as homosexuality. we still allow adultery. this is just as heinous as the first two. and we definitely allow idolatry – this is the most heinous. we worship money, athletes, actors, etc. THEY have become our gods. THIS is why this country is in the mess it’s in.

      • L, USA

        We must repent daily, and turn from wicked ways unto obedience of the written Word. Americas’ First Presidents’ Prayer notes here: http://www.eadshome.com/GeorgeWashington.htm

      • phred

        And nowhere, L,USA, do you answer as to where I may have made a reference that “god” is nonexistant? And, nowhere, L.USA, do you answer about your inference that I said ANYTHING pertaining to “God” being dead?
        As far as I am concerned your religion, and your constant references to it show me what both you and your version of your religion are all about—just as I said about Yandle—you believe that you have found and clamped on the ONLY religion that believes in the Supreme Being, and all the rest of us, therefore, are beneath your standards and must be “taught” and brought UP to your religion, since it, and by inference, it’s practitioners, are so superior to the rest of spiritual pursuits and pursuers!
        Someone else here mentions the lack of people at churches in his area on Sundays, that it may well be the arrogance of some of you practitioners that drives people away from them! I believe it. In fact, I hope for it! Because once a person forgets all the deficate of the male bovine that they are taught in the name of religions, and that’s ANY religion, including yours, THEN they can actually get on with knowing the true Supreme Being. IT doesn’t hide from you, but religions are like throwing up a forest of ferns that you can’t see through, to actually see understand, and COMMUNICATE with the Supremity.
        Get over yourself, then MAYBE you’ll get over the arrogance of your religious stand.

        • L, USA

          Now look phred, The Love of God is in my heart toward all mankind, you and also Lenard as you both are present; but be sure of the truth that “The Spirit of God will not always strive with man”, yet He may woo you two now by these words. You must seek, as I have, and you will find Him. For it is written, “God is not far from any man”. Truly, I have been moved closer to Him (personaly) only because of continual trusting and seeking with sincere desire. The last 30 years have been leaps and bounds and it only gets better! Believe it.

          • eyeswideopen

            L,USA. “the love for mankind is in your heart” Was that before you stated that I was an “impersonation of a Christian witness”? You seem to to think that the Conservative order is ordained by God and that anyone and anything that opposes or doesn’t agree with your conservative order is infinitely evil. You are a Christian in name only or you wouldn’t have ever had the arrogance to make that statement. Would you like the number of my preacher? When you are standing before God, you will be hard pressed to explain to him, why you thought you had the right to attack a Christian in that manner.

        • Joe H.

          phred,
          She didn’t say you did. You did however defend and agree with someone that did IE Leonard!!!! Guilt by association you might say. Please do0n’t try to say you believe now and make up for it as you have definately shown your true colors!!!

          • phred

            Joe, the more you post the farther out to sea you seem to get. Before you posted this tripe you have already read something about my spiritual pursuits. So, as is usual for you, your post here is a deliberate attempt at “misdirection”, which as far as I’m concerned is simply a lie! But you have proven yourself to be quite dishonest with the things your write, OR you have the mental maturity of a third grader, and thus, your arguments needn’t have any truth or honesty in them, only a desire for the attack.

      • Leonard

        Yes… let’s round-up all of those abortionists… all the adulterers and all the homosexuals and stone them to death! Isn’t that in your bible somewhere? That book written by the mythical being of love?

        • L, USA

          Lenard, I refer you the the Axiom. I will not however be guilty of the blood of any who do not believe on the eternal judgement day before the Throne of God in heaven. God Bless you and phred.

          • DDC

            Boy, it sure looks like there is going to be a lot of people thrown into the Lake Of Fire, Which in the Bible is called Hell. If you do not believe we serve a true God who made this world and everything in it, then went on to die on the cross for all our sins,and then arose on the third day. God Bless Your Soul.

  • Cary Grimes

    I think Obama likes tension between people. The don’t ask don’t tell has been law for 17 years and now we have a socialist president that likes confrontation. I strongly oppose gays openly serving in the UNITED STATES MILITARY. It also shows sissyness around the world.

    • Harold Olsen

      Obama kind of reminds me of a boss I once had. My boss would complain about us not getting along with each other. Then he would play people against one another, lying about them, causing further antagonisms. This is the sort of thing Obama is doing. He claimed, and still does, that he is a uniter and not a divider. Yet I’ve never seen a “leader” who went out of his way to turn people against one another. If he isn’t trying to deliberately destroy this country, he’s doing a great imitation of someone who is.

  • eddie47d

    Cary;I will call you out in being a sissy. Over 10,000 service personel have been booted out of the military for being gay since it’s inception. In other words if your exposed and a higher up doesn’t like you he can give you a discharge. Tony Perkins is also paranoid. A gay person will not stop anyone from going to church or reading the bible. So his actions more truly reflect discrimination. We need men and women who will fight for all of our freedoms. If they defend the constitution then they are welcome.

    • finish it

      want to bet? all you have to do is voice your beliefs – and yes if they ask you about your beliefs and you voice them – it’s called HATE SPEAK. this is what the concern is all about. if someone who is gay wants to cause trouble for a co-worker or perhaps someone straight who turned their advances down – then all they have to do is complain about harassment from that person. if the person is Christian, they are automatically considered guilty just because of their beliefs. That’s what the hate speech law is all about.

  • http://gmail Raindancer

    Well the Obamister and his thugs like Rambo style politics from Chicago, I think it should be called Ram-Butt style, since everything is settled in the shower stall!!!!!

  • Gravity Wave

    It is not gays who infringe on religious rights. It is the religious people who try constantly to infringe on everyone else’s rights.

    Hey, religious people. What about:

    tolerance,
    love thy neighbor,
    “cast the beam out of your own eye” (You have the highest crime, spousal abuse, divorce,corruption statistics, and you fill the jails. Not Gays.),
    You also must answer for:
    bad education,
    lack of a basis for any decisions you make,
    are easily manipulated,
    racist,
    gullible,
    violent and even murder,
    the Crusades,
    most of our bloody,
    illegal wars,
    torture,
    inability to live by rule of law and total ignorance about what that means and the standard of living it brings,
    inability to grasp that no one is discriminating against you. You can do as you please in private and should have the grace of character and the intelligence to allow others to do the same.
    narrow,
    world outlook is zelch,
    citizenship slackers, (pay your own way)
    inflexible,
    swallow slogans hook, line, and sinker,
    total lack of independent thinking,
    ignorant of the history that produced America and want to repeat it,
    low self esteem and rightly so,
    classic examples of humiliated people, (you tried and muffed it and were and are too dumb about how to run a world class government),
    you have zero ability to tell truth from fiction,
    you vote against your own best interests,
    you have no basis on which to judge climate crisis research,
    you are wrapped up in slogans without acting to do what we can do about our changing climate without seeing that it makes little difference what is causing it but that we can mitigate (look it up…in a dictionary) some of the bad effects and adapt,
    seem never to have heard of Wikipedia–is a simple and regulated, easy and fast way to educate yourselves,
    you haven’ got the balls to change,
    you let your handlers tell you “people don’t want to change” and you never think that humans have been changing for thousands of years and would not be here if we hadn’t. And you can’t comprehend that most people love to learn and change and that it is only your small group, brainwashed by you handlers, who have picked up this imbecilic idea that we don’t want to or can’t change. It is only your small group who think this way and it spells extinction,
    and you can’t comprehend either Communisim or Demcracy.

    Religion as you envision it, is communism. A small group will rule and the rest of us are crushed into being all alike. No ambition (as in don’t change). No new hypotheses (look it up). No room to be an individual. Do what you are told in every facet of your lives. No privacy. No way to direct any part of your governing body. Your only freedom is to be a victim of world greed, climate, oppression, war, pollution. No health care except what dribbles down from the handlers.

    You don’t comprehend the meaning of Democracy and you are dependent on that concept for your very existence and the freedom you have.

    • blackhat

      GW…You crack me up! Although answering your post point by point would be futile, and most likely a waste of time, I do fine it amusing. Your points are “classic examples” of the talking points and “slogans” progressive “handlers” put out daily. So, I find it ironic and slightly funny that you would rail so vociferously (look it up…in a dictionary) about the “beam” in the eyes of the religious, when…well, you know.

    • Michael J.

      Gravity Wave,
      Typical useful idiot, recites the progressive Matthews/Olberman rant verbatim. Wouldn’t recognize the truth if it came up and bit him/her. Incapable of independent thought. Scared to death that if Obama looses power that his/her lifestyle will be forced back into the closet.

    • Robin from Arcadia, IN

      Gravity Wave… I did not read your entire spew. I didn’t have to. I could tell immediately that you are a hate monger. At some point in time in your life, you were scarred. Religion is a threat to you. And so it seems are logic and common sense. Your rant makes little sense to anyone except yourself. Everything you are accusing conservatives of you are doing yourself. Pity. You can’t see the forest for the trees!

      • Joe H.

        Robin,
        Most people I find like him are afraid they can’t live up to the level. What they don’t realize is that they only need try!!!! they don’t realize that to ask forgivness from the Lord and it will be granted!!!

      • michael

        The religous right are the hate mongers they hate gays they hate the right to choose they hate anyone that does’nt agree with them. What you do love is WARS AND class warfare.

      • phred

        Robin , your response to Gravity Wave shows your contempt for anothers beliefs system. It usually IS the religious right that does their level best to infringe on everyone else’ rights and liberties, ’cause they believe they have the exclusive, the only, ear of God, and some of y’all may even has his unlisted phone number, eh?
        See the comments from some of the fundamental Christians here, and try to read past the preaching to note the displays of arrogance, and the insistance that what THEY believe to be right is the only way to believe. Arrogance pretty much personified!

        • L, USA

          Tell everyone phred, Who can argue with God? Do I need say that the only answer is No One. Please read the King James English Version 1612 translation or if you will search the original text in Hebrew and Greek, but find the outline and search for the truths that will set you free. “For God so Loved the world, that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.”

          • eyeswideopen

            L,USA, Let me quote from the King James Bible, Deuteronomy 15:7,8
            “If there be amoung you a poor man of one of they brethren within any of thy gates in thy land which the Lord thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not harden thine heart, nor shut thine hand from thy poor brother: (8) But thou shalt open thine hand wide unto him, and shalt surely lend him sufficient for his need, in that which he wanteth. Thou shall surely give him, and thine heart shall not be grieved when thou givest unto him: because that for this thing the Lord thy God shall bless thee in all thy works, and in all that thou puttest thine hand unto. Why is it that the conservatives who are supposed to be the most familiar with and practice Christianity the best, are the ones who seem to deny that God and Jesus were socialists? Somewhat of a dichotomy don’t you think? Which social programs do you want to do any with?

          • Yandle

            eyeswideopen,
            Where do you get that God and Jesus were socialists?

          • Michael J.

            Really EWO, having you read from the Bible is like having Timothy Geithner preparing tax returns.

          • Joe H.

            eyesgimmedshut,
            The difference is bigger than the beam you talked about being in your eye!!! Jesus talks about GIVING!!! The government talks about TAKING!!! See the difference?? Or are your eyes still shut? Those passages talk about voluntary giving to others not the government taking and then giving it. Where is the CHARITY in that??? NOW do you see the difference? If not then your eyes are truly shut!!!

    • Tazio2013

      Kudos GW; you have introduced factual knowledge, truth, reality and wisdom into the conversation and the homophobic, xenophobic, war-mongering, crusading christian conservatives have their collective knickers in a twist. Whoever cancelled Tony Perkins and the FRC deserves the medal of freedom. Semper Fi!

      • Michael J.

        taz,
        If you and GW are so fervent in your belief’s, why is it that you both use and alias when posting?

        • Leonard

          What exactly is your point? It’s not like the name Michael J means anything. Would you like everyone to post their full name and address? Home phone number too? Your post is the best you could do to refute their statements? No logic, no counter-point, but you’re getting pi$$y about names? Sad.

          • Michael J.

            Leonard,
            The difference is that my name IS Michael J., it’s not an alias. I beleive in everything I post enough to attach my actual name to it.

            As far as points go, what points did Tazio 2013 make?

            Gravity Wave’s parroted talking points reads like a MSNBC transcript and is not worth my time.

            How about you Leonard (if that’s your name), what say you about gay’s threatening the religeous liberties of normal military personel?

          • Michael J.

            Leonard,
            Once the slippery slope of gay’s being openly allowed to serve, what’s next? Open Beastiality? Incest maybe, or how about Pediphillia? And because normal people express disgust with these acts, will that be considered hate crimes?

            The communist creators of political correctness will be very pleased that their plan to divide and conquer the United States is coming to fruition through the naive acts of “Useful Idiots”.

    • Warrior

      Go get em tiger, NO christians allowed in the military. What we should do is recruit good Al Quada to join our military to go fight bad Al Quada. OR maybe if we just left everyone else alone, there would be total piece in the world because we’re obviously the cause of all the world ills. Go Chavez!

    • phred

      Gravity Wave, those are all things I’ve said to this same bunch, and including Yandle, many times! But, they are so superior to those of us of some other belief, that we must bow down to their distinct Superiorness. Surely you can see that, eh?
      Just remember that First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution doesn’t give us religious freedom, unless of course, we are of the Superior beliefs of the Christian!

      • Yandle

        phred,
        There still is hope for you also because “Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners” which WE ALL ARE. As always You are the only one talking about superiority, not Christians because we know that we by grace are saved through faith; and that not of ourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

        • phred

          wow, what a stupid reply, Yandle! I am not “talking superiority”, I am naming it! I am showing yopu what you seem to believe about anyone with another spiritual belief than yours—i.e., that you and YORU belief is, of course, SUPERIOR!!! to all others, therfore.
          I really wish you’d figure out some way to speak to the points presented, and to read what is being said, THEN try to formulate a reply—or, maybe, just maybe, your mommy could help you here, eh? Or you (superior) preacher. Or, maybe a Mother Superior?
          Just windering, when you went to school;, did they have things like “reading comprehension” courses?
          Yeah, I remember when you and a gal named Pat responded to every one of my posts on one thread with long winded preaching and bible thumping—I have to assume it was because of your having been annointed with SUPERIOR OILS, or something.

          • Joe H.

            phred,
            And what do you think you are doing right now??? Youm are trying to brow beat Yandle and convince him that you are superior to him!!! The only flaw in your arguement is that your words prove different!!!
            If you truly want to talk about a religeon that teaches superiority then look to the Muslims as theirs teaches that all who refuse to convert are to be murdered!!! Now THAT is believing yourself superior!!

          • L, USA
          • eyeswideopen

            phred, they handle their political convictions the same way they do their faith. They believe that “they are the only ones with the correct answers” to all of our problems. I laugh as you can’t get any of them to agree about the verses in the Bible. There are so many interpretations of the Christian religion going on here that a brawl could start at any second. Interesting fact that is apparent is that they do pick and choose what they will believe. They won’t/don’t bed their brothers wife to reproduce children, while still married to someone else,as practiced in the Bible, and they won’t stone their children for misbehaving/disobeying. Many say to only believe in New Testament, however the Ten Commandants are in the Old Testament. Christians are leaving the faith, due to the arrogance and attitude that the Conservatives, protray that anything or anyone who opposes the conservative order is infinitely evil.

    • Yandle

      Gravity Wave,
      Spoken like a true Sodomite but by God’s grace there is still hope for even you and ALL Sinners because God is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by Christ or HE is able to let sinners “fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost”.

      • michael

        Another religous nut heard from. People like you are the ones that give religion a bad name and why most of the churches in my area only have a few in attendance every week and I live in the bible belt. I am Curious are you from Kansas because you sond like that idiot Fred Phelps.

        • Yandle

          michael ,
          I believe what GOD teaches period. You may live in the Bible belt but you do not live by the Bible from what you have stated. “Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.”

      • phred

        joe, this should really be the last reply to you, since you seem to have no ability to read and comprehend, much like Yandle, tho;, in his case, I think it’s just that he can’t actually come up with an argument for me pointing out his belief in his own superiority.
        The fact is, each time Yandle posts it is to attempt to demonstrate the absolute superiority of HIS religion, thus his personal beliefs, over those of anyone else.
        So, maybe YOU could find—oh, never mind, I doubt you know anybody who can show you LOGICAL thinking methods, else you wouldn’t be writing the crap you’ve written, would you?

        • Leonard

          Hey Phred… don’t worry about JoeH. He’s a scared old man. Like most of the geriatric crowd here, he’s scared of change… it’s progress and progressives are bad. He’s scared of change, because when you’re old change takes you out of your comfort zone and like they say, “you can’t teach an old dog, new tricks.” The more things change the more frightened JoeH and the rest of the old timers here get. So they clutch their bibles a little tighter and convince themselves they’ve got a direct connection to a higher being. Some of the crazier ones here, live their lives convinced that every word in their bible is true and was personally written by their god and this makes them better than everyone else. DaveH constantly states that “The only way you can please a Liberal is to give them all your money and let them make all your choices.” Yeah DaveH… that’s Liberals and the Jesus Freaks that are the Religious Right (Dr. Dobson and his lapdogs Tony Perkins and the FRC). Actually, Liberals and Evangelicals are just opposite sides of the same coin. Phred… you may have noticed that JoeH is one of many here that don’t really add anything intellectual to a discussion, just a lot of hate (probably in god’s name) and just a lot of old person bitterness. Everything is bad, everything is being rammed down people’s throats, democrats are dumb, all republicans are RINOs, all the media is controlled by the government except for Fox… blah blah blah. That’s the problem with this site… it’s 95% old scared old people. Old people who’s intellect is displayed by their rejection of science and logic for the dogma in their bibles and the propaganda spread by the ONLY politically controlled media… Fox News. Things need to change… but the grumpy old men and women here certainly won’t be the ones leading the way. Anyway Phred… I’ve enjoyed reading your responses and I’ve probably agreed with just about everything you’ve written. Just wanted to let you know that someone’s on your side in Mr. Livingston’s “tundra of common sense”

          • Joe H.

            leonard,
            I just figured you and phred the phreeloader out. He’s the pitcher and you are the catcher!!!! why don’t the two of you go home and toss it around a little between you!!!

          • Gerald Brells

            Leonard, Please don’t put all us old guys in your dead mind group.I’m 77yrs. old-wish it was younger but I bet I’m more younger thinking than you.By the way Leo,how old are you?

    • finish it

      just an FYI NEVER judge Christianity by Christians. Judge Christianity by Jesus. He is the ONLY one who was and is perfect. the rest of us are still working on it. Oh and by the way, most who CALL themselves Christians, haven’t figured out who their Lord and Saviour is nor how to truly emulate Him. Still working on that last part myself. so if they hate, are they really Christian? it’s more than just a name you know.

      • L, USA

        If we love one another in the LORD then the world knows that we are His (Christs). He who loves is of God and knoweth God. Forgive one another and pray for one and another. Not to forget; Obedience is better than sacrifice. Be angry (at sin) and sin not (not profane or wrongly do harm).

        • eyeswideopen

          L, USA, you are a hypocrite, or you would at least be civil to others on this site. I am a Christian and proud of it, until people like you show how hypocritical they are, while using the guise of Christianity.

  • Warrior

    What if my sexual preference is 90 year old iranian men, 3 year old greyhounds, my sister, doctor, etc.? Who the hell cares!
    Hey, is that question part of the census boondoggle? Cary is correct, the progressives just love to stir the pot of societal discontent.

  • Dan2

    What a bunch of confused people! There is absolute truth!!!! Anybody can say they are gay to gain a benefit, even I could say I was gay even though I am not! If Gay people didn’t have sex, they would not be gay. If they can’t reproduce themselves then there is no gene or biological transfer to pass on. I’d like to hear of an explaination of sexual reprodution from a darwinist, how did man and woman get to gether to reproduce? If you think gay is O.K., than you should think an adult and child should be OK, or animal, they can feel that kind of love also, and if you do not agree with this last statement than you are a hypocrite!
    I do know gay people and I do know ex-gay people.. you heard right.. people that no longer participate in gay sex but have normal lives.
    But to allow gay sex in the military would be a conflict of interest as in the field you would have distrust among ranks. You could say it has a new meaning of ” watching your back”, no pun here!
    Sex is pleasurable, other wise we would not reproduce. there is no other mechanism for human reprodution. You do not have to have sex, it is not like your skin or eye color.
    If gays didn’t have sex they would not be gay!!!!
    And if you said there is no absolute truth. Then you fool yourself, because that statement would have to be absolutly true!!!!

    • Michael

      Your Comparing aplles and oranges. What 2 consenting adults want to do should be allowed as long as nobody gets hurt. There is no way repealing DADT is hurting anybody.

  • Adam

    This must be the saddest comment thread in the history of the web. Hearing these flacid arguments against people who only want to keep our country safe is a disservice to everything America stands for.

    In the spirit of Jesus I will forgive you, but judgement awaits all of those who would shun their brother. Shame on you zealots. Keep your religion where it belongs, and out of our defense department.

    • Michael J.

      Adam,
      You seem sincere enough, although uniformed. Gay awareness, gay acceptance, is a product of political correctness,which in turn is a product of a 1920′s communist think tank called The Frankfurt School of Germany. The Frankfurt School is also responsible for the unleashing of such radicals as Saul Alinsky who was a major theorist associated with the school once it moved to the campus of Columbia University in 1939.

      The pushing of these policies has nothing to do with morality, but is instead part of the divide and conquer tactics of communist subversion.

  • Doc Sarvis

    Many other countries have openly gay people serving in their military with no troubles attributable to that fact. We have homosexual people in our military, always have, and many of them are “out” with their peers. I have a strong enough opinion that our military has the discipline to act maturely and with professionalism that openly gay people serving will not be an issue. If you think openly gay people in our military is a problem you must not think too much of the American soldier.

    • eyeswideopen

      Well said.

  • http://gmail Raindancer

    Don’t ask don’t tell is a good policy. If it gets changed so will military. Next will be wearing jewery, hair color, marching and general behavior. If we get military leaders that don’t fall for the feel good bu–s–t standrads like was going on in in the 80′s we might maintain. Of course most of the males are pretty wimpy and metra sexuals so a makeup kit is far “behind”.

  • phred

    Is there anyone here who can tell me just exactly what a persons sexual orientation has to do with defending the country? Oh, I know of the biblical quote of “… an abomination unto the Lord”, and all that. But, give me some logic as to what aiming a rifle and squeezing the trigger has to do with what a person dreams of at night? Or, assembling bombs for the aircraft, or driving a tank, or feeding the fighting forces, or the entire myriad of military jobs? What is it, that someone of a differing sexual orientation should only be allowed to do those tasks “normally” assigned to the “queers”, like, oh, maybe, nursing, or, childcare?
    I don’t know about you others, but if I’m ever in a dangerous situation, say a firefight, or similar, I don’t CARE who has my back as long as they HAVE my back!
    Even MLK said “Why can’t we all live like brothers?” And while he meant, of course, as regards skin color, ethnicity, etc., I ask, “Why can’t we all BE brothers and sisters? and ignore whether your brother likes ugly women or pretty ones, or powerfully built men or wimpy looking guys?
    A truck driver can drive, whether he is thinking of that good loooking guy he just saw at the last truck stop, or his model looking wife back home! A surgeon, ditto. A construction worker, ditto. A soldier, ditto!

    • Doc Sarvis

      Phred, you got it right. Good post.

    • Joe H.

      Phred,
      Since there are instances where a battlefield blood transfusion is demanded to save a servicemans life, and seeing that gays have the highest rate of aids of any group, we will allow you to enlist and be the first to get their transfusion and make sure it is a GAY MAN that is the donor!!!! Don’t forget, there’s no labs to make sure that the blood is clean!!!! Matter of fact, we will just let you by-pass the enlistment and get the transfusion!!! Better you than me!!!

      • Yandle

        Amen

      • Leonard

        Yes and all sailors get tattoos and people who get tattoos have a higher rate of Hepatitis C so we should probably ban sailors from the military too. Great logic JoeH! It seems that the ONLY army that most of you people will ever accept is the Salvation Army.

        • Michael J.

          Leonard,
          There are lots of things that wet behind the ears liberals like yourself are not aware of because you have not lived enough life yet or are just naive, you make the call. As a favor to you and your clumsy commie cronies who are so young that they haven’t even experienced colic yet, read this:

          Most people assume that Political Correctness is an indigenous phenomenon originating a couple decades back in the left coast minds of California Liberals (closet progressives), when in fact it’s insideous origins stem from a long time ago in a continent far, far away.

          So how did it all start? Political Correctness started in a think tank (called The Frankfurt School) in Germany in 1923. The purpose was to find a solution to the biggest problem facing the implementers of communism in Russia. Why wasn’t the wonderful idea of communism spreading?

          The Frankfurt school recommended (amongst other things):

          #1 convince minorities that they are victims of racial oppression.
          #2 continual change in government to create confusion and mistrust.
          #3 the teaching of sex and homosexual tolerance to children.
          #4 the undermining of schools and teachers’ authority to disipline.
          #5 huge immigration to destroy national identity and sovereignty.
          #6 the promotion of excessive drinking.
          #7 emptying the churches.
          #8 an unreliable legal system with bias against the victim of crime.
          #9 dependency on the state or state benefits.
          #10 control and dumbing down of media.
          #11 encouraging the breakdown of the family.

          Any of this sounding familiar yet? Have you read “Rules for Radicals”?You see, your Messiah is not only not clever but, his ideas are not his own or even original.

          Is your diaper getting heavy yet? Well hold on because I’m just getting to the good part. The Messiah you admire and emulate laughingly refers to your type behind your backs as “Useful Idiots” as a result of your relentless parroting of their talking points without any serious coersion aside which was provided you through Socialistic Indoctrination/Government Education. What your college professor neglected to tell you about however, is the fact that once Communism has replaced Capitalism, the useful idiots will be the first ones eliminated because the panecea promised will never be delivered unto them. The last thing that a communist regime wants is radicals like yourself who suddenly realize that Socialism/Communism is not going to be the wet dream utopia you thought it would be.

          After you clean your bottom, click on this link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlpODYhnPEo

      • eyeswideopen

        JoeH, sorry, but they don’t do battlefield transfusions, as the blood needs to be typed and matched to avoid fatal clotting. They give them other fluids until they can get them to a facitily which can do the blood typing.

        • Joe H.

          eyeswormedshut,
          you say you served, yet you don’t remember that your dog tags show your typed blood type??? There are certain times that WHOLE BLOOD is the only thing that will save a mans life and the platoon is pinned down so don’t say never!!!

          • phred

            Man you surely love your name calling, don’t you, Joe H.? How about you actually get into the conversations, instead of just making insults?

          • Yandle

            phred,
            Have you ever thought about what you write. You have no logic, no facts, and no substance. You only have name calling, mocking, and insult . You attack people, not the subject, you ramble, you “if if” and when someone responds to your ignorance you say they have left the subject. I must have really made an impression on you(I would have hope it had been for your good but evidently not) because you cannot often write a comment in any post without using my name but that is ok if I am the only subject (how limited you are) you have.

          • eyeswideopen

            JoeH, they have stopped doing infield transfusions. Look it up. Too many errors, missing tags, people having hepatitus/viral infections, etc, but they are researching blood replacements now. You are living in the past when those types of things were done. It is not done today. So love your disrespect. Thank you for proving my point about how closed minded you and your cronies are. If you can’t respond to me without anger, hatred, and name calling try to have some self control and don’t respond at all. You are after all supposed to be a Christian aren’t you?

      • eyeswideopen

        JoeH, under your senario, they would also be exposed to Hepatitis and a number of infectious diseases. They are never given transfusions on the field, so rest easy, nobody will get aids.

        • Joe H.

          eyesinsultedshut,
          good job of reading the post above!! Hands clapping while your brain rattles!!!

          • eyeswideopen

            JoeH, how Christian of you to call me names. How do you have the nerve to call yourself a Christian? Sad, very sad.

          • Joe H.

            eyesjudgedshut,
            you can say anything about me being a Christian you want. I answer to only one being on that and you are definately NOT the one!!! In fact, coming from you, I take it as a compliment that YOU don’t think I am!!!

      • finish it

        keep in mind a lot of people commit adultery – they are just as likely to have HIV/AIDS because if they will commit adultery once trust me it is only a matter of time when they will do it again.

        • L, USA

          finish it, The female is always much more vulnerable to the Aquired Immune Deficency Syndrome Virus HIV because of the physical functions involve in the reproduction processes. This is unfortunate and can be directly related to the uncleaness of male to male sodomy acts, where the virus may, among many other microbial diesease reside and multiply in the human rectum/anus. Also transferrence may occur in other ways among any un-natural “reproductive” behavior. Much better to follow the written Word!

          • Joe H.

            L,USA,
            I applaud your insightful post!!!!

    • eyeswideopen

      Phred, good points.

    • L, USA

      phred, It is as when Lot was ushered out of Sodom by the Holy Angels just before it was nuked. There is a seperation nearing the end of the present age. Come in before the door of the “ark (Jesus The LORD Christ)” is shut and no man can open.

  • Dan2

    Soldiers in love in the field can jepordize others by their feels, think about it! say disobeying orders not to send their lover into combat action, or what ever the case.
    The bottom line is when you explain the sexual reproductive system by biological evolution, (particles to people), you gay supports might have a leg to stand, but you can’t. The only explaination is creation. Gay lifestyle is a lie, the only thing that makes you gay is gay sex, if you don’t do that you would be gay. You do not have to have sex!!!! Sex as designed is for reproducng the species. You can’t change the skin or eye color you were born with. But you do not have to have sex! Gays don’t produce gays. Never has never will! Their is a God that created you and is saying not to do this because he wants you in heaven. God is truth and can’t have lies in heaven, it does not work, so repent. Jesus forgives! Go and sin no more.
    IF YOU SAY THERE IS NO ABSOLUTE TRUTH …IS THAT ABSOLUTLY TRUE!!

    • Dan2

      line…gay sex, If you don’t do that you WOULDN’T be gay.

      This is not a hate message so tolerate it.

    • eyeswideopen

      Dan2, are you saying that heterosexuals don’t fall in love while serving together in the military? LMAO

      • Joe H.

        eyescrankedshut,
        As long as they don’t serve in combat together it won’t be a problem. and before you start, no I do not agree with females in combat!!! Too many problems arrising from that as well!!

  • waltk

    The repeal bill will most likely be attached to the appropriations bill or in other words, the Democrats will push the repeal without even waiting for DoD to complete its study and with no concern for the troops impacted on Obama’s political IOU to homosexuals.

    Every Conservative should show disapproval with a boycott of the armed forces. Influencers of the youth considering joing should persuade them not to or at a minimum hold off for the rest of this year. Those currently in the delayed entry program should immediately advise their recruiters that they do not intend to ship. Liberals and homosexuals boycotting would have minimal impact. Conservatives on the other hand have the power to devastate recruiting and recruiting is the life blood of the military. Time to send a clear , loud message is now.

  • Al

    WE as Christians must Use discernment.
    “Judge not, that you be not judged.

    Mat 7:2 For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you.

    Mat 7:3 And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye?
    This does not mean that we ignore the sin that gays bring into the military. God hates the sin, not the sinners. This life style does not bring any positive fellowship among any military/combat group.

    • Doc Sarvis

      We are all sinners.

      • L, USA

        Read John 3:16 “God commended His Love toward us, For when we WERE yet sinners, Christ died for us”. He also was raised again from the dead and now sits at the right hand of The Father, in Heaven and makes propitiation for all who have been cleansed.

        • Joe H.

          For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believeth in him shall not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16

  • phred

    ‘S’funny, I am 64 years old, I have wandered the world, I have served my country in some horrific situations, I have friends who are male, female, Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Muslims, Atheists, gays, lesbians, bisexuals, etc., etc., etc. And in each and everyone of them ( my friends) I see a wilingness to help, to befriend, to defend, to give medical assistance to, generally, to be HU-MAN to, their fellows. They don’t ask, “Are you gay?” or “Are you Christian?”, before they do what is right and/or necessary to help a fellow hu-man being.
    Yet the above questions are EXACTLY what some of y’all seem to be asking before you’d allow yourselves to help someone!
    I realize that almost ALL of the antigay prejudice on this site comes from just a smallish clump of fundamental Christians, and they love to use the “abomination unto the Lord” quote, but it will always be my opinion that we are ALL hu-man beings. I happen to love my women—and to an even greater extent, my wife. But if I know a guy ( and I know and am friends with several such) who doesn’t like women in the same fashion as I do, so what? Doesn’t cause me harm at all! Same is true of some lesbians that I am friends with. I may get jealous because they have a total beauty living with them, but that’s their thing.
    And, as I said, if I am in a dangerous situation, I don’t care about the religion, nor the sexual orientation of whoever has my back—I just want to know that they have my back, and there seems a large a percentage of cowards in the heterosexual world as in the homosexual world! And, BTW, if it happens that I am responsible for “their back”, they can depend on me, too!

    • Joe H.

      phred,
      could the reason you are arguing so hard be that there’s a little sugar in your tank????

    • finish it

      very true. and if you were cheating on your wife with all those woman you “love” you would be just as much sinning as someone who is homosexual. ALL sin is the same in God’s eyes, whether it is homosexuality or lying. doesn’t matter – SIN IS SIN IS SIN IS SIN. God hates ALL SIN. there is no degree in sin.

      • phred

        Okay, can answer you both this time:
        Joe H. your response is typical, and I have answered it on several threads here on the Libeerty Digest; It’s as STUPID as saying because an attorney defends a murderer, he must be a murderer himself (or herself as the case may be). It’s also the response of a very immature person, with little ability to logicalize anything.

        finish it: you seem to have the same reasoning ability as Joe H.! Saying I love women has not a #$%&&#*$%(&^)*8 thing to do with having sex with them. Do you have any children? Do you love your children? Surely you have, or, at least, HAD parents. Do you, or did you, love your parents? So, should I conclude that, then, you have had, are having, and will have, sex with your children and parents?
        Take your totally ridiculous arguments down to the Apollo—they may find a place on stage for you two with the kind of ridiculous logic you present here.
        Actually, I think that’s the biggest problem on the Liberty Digest—someone disagrees with certain Christian pronouncements, and these kind of guys come out of the woodwork, all THINKING they really got him now! Then they attack with such lack of logic, intelligence, and even civility.
        Note, once again, I have disagreed with those of SUPERIOR religiosity, and have been SMITED by them for it!*

        *chuckle, chuckle.

        • Joe H.

          Phred,
          There you go jumping to conclusions. I mean did I ever say your parents were dumb as hell???

      • eyeswideopen

        Hands clapping, finish it. Lusting is also considered a sin, along with fornicators, idolators, adulterers, thieves, the greedy, drunkards, revilers and robbers. Taken right from the Bible.

  • phred

    I guess maybe I’ll try one more time to address the folks who insist that if one has “not experienced the rebirth thru Jesus” they are blind, or things of that nature. This is NOT the subject of this board, but has becomes that because some feel the need to “teach” those of us who have such inferior spiritual beliefs that they MUST try to convert us.
    I only do this because, as a libertarian, and as an American who actually believes in the inalienable right to religious freedom (as well as all the other freedoms we enjoy), it is this type of person, and this type of thinking that is destroying those rights for anyone with the termerity to even mention that they are not Christian.
    Much has been made of things like “joining in ‘Gods’ love”, etc., and the insistance that only they ( those followers of Jesus) can do that, and/or, have it “right”.
    They don’t seem to realize how insulting they are to the rest of us, and how they put us all down with their preaching, with insisting that things must be of THEIR choosing, not of an openness of thought.
    I have been specifically told, on this board, things like “Oh, phred, I wish you could know of the love.”, “If you haven’t experienced…. you are blind.”, etc., etc., etc. The fact is, folks, I am a soul traveler. I experience Gods (that’s the Supreme Being, not Jesus, BTW) wonders on a constant basis. I have an outstanding relationship with that Supremity, and know a few of the things IT has created, made manifest, and gives ALL persons the ability to see, and experience. It doesn’t require a religion nor a “holy” book to do these things. In fact religions are simply a method of enslaving the common man for the betterment of the priests. Give your tithe to your church—oh and when there is a “special need” give still more–because the priests NEED your gifts—else they may have to get real jobs and actually work for a living.
    In every religion I have ever encountered one is taught the same basic things; To become subservient to “God”, and, by that, to show that subservience by bowing down to the “Priest(s) of ‘God’ “. That you must do these little things, as taught in the “holy” books, and by the “holy” men and women, else you can’t experience the “Love” of “God”.
    I have left the religious worlds for the Supremitys Worlds ( and, BTW, that IS a plurality), and wish y’all would stop trying to drag me back to your fern forests where such experiences are much harder to come by. I don’t expect that to happen, but it is still my wish. To constantly quote your bible, for example, as if it proves something which you are saying is such a waste! It makes me think that you surely must believe that the story of Tom Sawyer, by Sam Clemens is some kind of “holy” and “righteous” book also, and that by quoting from the pages of “Tom Sawyer” we can easily “prove” the “Godlikeness” of it.
    Now, the reason I have gone through all of this is that I, unlike some of you, BELIEVE in the rights of ALL Americans, those of free speech, free religious views, the right to protest what our government does in our names, the right to keep and bear arms, to not incriminate oneself, etc., etc., etc. With those of you attempting, constantly, to point to your own personal superiority becauee you invoke the name of “Jesus” so often, and insisting that the United States is a “Christian Nation”, you detract from my rights, and from the rights of every American, including those of Christian belief, including, yes, even yourselves. For to attempt to deny my rights, or anyones rights, based on YOUR religious views, is to deny the rights of ALL.
    Your preaching does nothing but attempt to cloud the issues with nonesense and superflous BS. I don’t care that you have your religious views. I don’t even care (especially since it would do no good TO care) that you will vote your religious views as long as you realize that others have their rights, and their views, and their views, religious or otherwise, are EVERY BIT AS VALID as yours are! If you culd do that, then MAYBE you’d stop trying so hard to deny the religious beliefs, views, ideas, and ideals of those of us who do NOT believe as you do.
    As for the subject of this thread, it has to do with gays in the military, things like that. I have asked for someone to tell me exactly how the sexual orientation of a fellow soldier, one who “has my back” makes ANY difference in the conduct of their duties, or in covering my back. The only answer I got was insults from Joe H., but therein lies a person who seems not only homophobic, but very immature, and without a possibility of discussing something like this with logic. His best move is simply to attempt to insult those with whom he has disagreements.
    So, once again, I ask that those of you who are Christian to think about where the other guy is coming from, where they may have been, what experiences they may have had. I find that MOST Christians, and MOST others do that. But I also find that the vociferous ones here feel the need to insist that THEY, and THEY alone, have the story RIGHT—which is naught but an insistance that THEY are the superior hu-mans, and THEY need to display that superiority at every turn.
    Now, after all of that, maybe y’all should go look up the meaning of the word “arrogance”.

    • eyeswideopen

      phred, I admire your acceptance of everyone’s freedom to be able to discern for themselves which path they will travel. You are more like what Christians are supposed to be, than many who profusely demand that their interpretations are the correct ones which others must be brow beaten to accept. Well said, standing ovation for you. May your higher power bless you and yours.

      • keith

        hymph,so you have a idea of what christains are supposed to be,ehh?
        -path
        -you admire…his ”acceptance”
        -discern
        -”which” path
        -you ARE more like what christians are SUPPOSED to be?
        -”their” interpretations
        -higher powers?
        obviously you are a new ager as that is obvious.
        you say we christions judge,well,lets see what tidbits where gleaned from your diatribe:
        1.you have your OWN idea of what christians are supposed to be in your OWN mind,eh,thats rather presumptious of you and highly arrogant as well.
        2.acceptance:another word you used which reveals that you take no stand and have no real solid moral compass as you just accept whatever immoral behavior people do and you stae that you ‘admire” him for it.that reveals you are a libral to the core.
        3.which path:this reveals that you are assuming and beleive there are many paths to enlightement and to this or these ”higher powers” as you put it.that is new age thinking in it’s finest.
        4.demand:obviously you feel threatened by gods word as the use of demand shows this and anyone of us ”supposed christians” as YOU deam it would not have the terminity to stand by what gods word has said,so you take offense at this and turn automatically defensive.where did ANY christian DEMAND you of anything????where,who,when???
        5.”their” interpretations,obviously you are assuming that the bible was written not by god,but my man alone and thus ANYONE who beleives it and says ANYTHING from it is doing so from their OWN understanding of it.since you DON’T beleive in a all powerfull god,you must think you evolved from a butt scratching monkey.would’nt you say thats arrogant and shows a deep rooted animosity towards christians in general.your judging us not we you bub!
        6.which others:what.you speak for others?who?obviously you assume or picture yourself as belonging to a group as ”others” imply.thats arrogant as well,you say,”others have their own path”,why then are you speaking for them?you are double speaking and nullifying your OWN words and statements!
        7.brow beaten:wow,you really feel threatened don’t you?just from us christians.hmmm.where does YOUR resentment regarding the bible come from?must be interupting your communion with your ”higher power” eh.
        8.bless you and yours:so you think the ”higher power” can bless others and you can call upon IT to bless others,eh?

        well,after dissecting your post and the way it was worded,i can see your someone who has deep resentment and are seeking something to beleive in and as yet you have’nt found him yet,obviously your not happy as someone with this much arrogance and resentment cannot be happy,maybe you should commune with your higher power some more and consult your psychic advisor and read your horror scope,when your done and tired of being miserable maybe you will wonder why we christians are always so happy and upbeat all the time.untill then,i hope you have the best of luck with your ”higher power”,your gonna need it!

        • phred

          What, a mish-mash-mess of unglued pronouncements quite what Joe H. might write if he lowered his IQ another 40 or 50 points!
          My god, keith, take your prejudicial hate to church and try to get it Baptised—maybe then it’s loathing for others will shrink to a manageable level!

          • phred

            :…. and maybe you’ll wonder why we christians are so happy all the time….”
            Yeah, keith, your posts really sounds like it comes from a “happy all the time” kind of person!!!! NOT!

        • Yandle

          keith, You got it right here and in your other replies. Keep standing for the truth.

    • Joe H.

      Phred,
      Why should I search my definition of arrogance, because YOU say so??? Number one I don’t attend church. I read my bible and ask the lord to help me understand. I bow to no “preist”. I give freely and that is why I GET PISSED WHEN THE GOVERNMENT TRIES TO TAKE FROM ME IN THAT NAME. There is less left to give to whom I choose to when that is done. I give freely as that is what the Bible tells me to, to be charitable. When it is taken forcefully from you how is that charitable?
      My bible also says sodomy is wrong and unlike you universalists, I don’t believe the old testament has no standing anymore!!!
      As far as what you deem to be insults, I call only returning what you, Leonard and eyes, along with her alter ego denniso give!!! so perhaps YOU should give more thought to what is arrogant!!
      OH, and as far as your comment about the only army I would be fit to serve in would be the salvation army, I served in the US Army for seven years, eighteen years of which was in that tropical paradise called VietNam!!! Where did you serve???

      • Joe H.

        eighteen years should read eighteen months!! Typo. sorry I messed it up for you eyes!!!

  • keith

    makes you wonder what the homo in the hole with you is doing when the enemy is assaulting you,looking at your bumm or concentrating on shooting the foe?

    • phred

      joe H,?? You change your name to Keith?
      Eyeswideopen, thanks. And the fact is Joe H. made an attempt at insult by trying to make it seem that I can’t possibly be a libertarian. Those characteristics of acceptance of others, and defense of their rigths and liberties are EXACTLY what libeertarianism is all about. But folks like these seem to believe that one has to be a fundamentalist Christian in order to be either a libertarian OR a conservative. Too bad they do so much to give the libertarian movement such a bad name and black eye. But, there’s a line in an old country song that fits here;
      “If you can live with it,
      I can live without it.
      If you can face your conscience,
      I can face my pride.”
      Notice I didn’t get any answers from the religious detractors, unless Joe H. actually did change his moniker to “keith”!

      • keith

        i’ll just let your confused little libral mind stay in a quandry about it.think whatever you want,makes no never mind to me,i could care less what you think about anything,serious!your so paranoid and trying to sound intellectual i’ll just sit back and get a chuckle out of it.heh heh heh heh heh….

        • L, USA

          “eyeswideopen”, Your name-jacking and impersonation of a Christian witness is deplorable and dispicable. phred is having a hard enough time overcoming the enemy of pride of life, without your sinister tricks. Stop it!

          • phred

            Except for the first of your posts that I addressed, L,USA, I had actually though you MAY have some sense of the validity of others beliefs and thoughts. Sorry, I didn’t mean to improperly push you up the scale—go ahead and stay in your mire where only Christian have anything of importance to say, okay?
            I told another poster on the Liberty Digest sometime ago, that I am thankful that MOST Christians can be spoken to, and can have a decent discussion without the attempt at superiority. If they were all like you and him (or her, meaning that poster) that I’d be forced to try to get the whole religion outlawed! Fortunately over 85% of Christians don’t try to place themselves above others, and realize that others beliefs are every bit as valid to them as are their own.
            At least you can put down some semblence of a thought. Why don’t you get together with keith, here, and try to tutor him—he thinks just about like you do, but has a lot of problems expressing himself about it.
            Gee, so I need to overcome something called the pride of life, eh? Because I believe, as did the founders of our great nation, that ALL men are created equal? What countrys credo do you follow, or most admire? How about; “From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs”?? Would that help you to feel even more superior?
            It truly is a waste trying to deal with the bias of such a small group of any religion. Look at what we deal with just with the small percentage we call the radical Islamic folks. But to then have to deal with it here, in the United States, from that similarly small percentage of Christians that I call the radical fundamentalists—-we may WELL need a new, shooting revolution here, just to overcome those of you of the SUPERIOR Persuasion!
            Hey, Livingston, and Chip Woods, since you two, especially, try to encourage these folks, maybe you should come out and offer to tutor tham. Show them how to construct a logical thought, how to open their minds to new concepts. They remind me of the church fellas when folks like Galileo Galilei showed, with his telscope, that their teachings were wrong, that, for example, the earth was NOT the center of everything. Remember that one, Bob? They threw him in jail, etc.? Looks like we, here in the U.S.A. are going to go through that again, eh?
            I apologize to G. Washington, T. Jefferson, et al, that this has happened to the country you guys founded.

          • eyeswideopen

            L, USA, I am praying for you now for what you just said to me.

  • L, USA

    “phred” said: ” If they were all like you and him (or her, meaning that poster) that I’d be forced to try to get the whole religion outlawed!”
    ——
    Mister, Try that and see what you reap. You will awaken a sleeping giant. http://www.americancongressfortruth.org

    • phred

      More of your typical idiotic response to what has been said. I made a speculation, and told you that if ALL Chrisitnas were like a certain few of you here, (and, indeed you are one of the main offenders here) that I would work to get your views outlawed. That is a speculation. You are working your butt off trying to get my ideas and views outlawed, but your think that’s fine, don’t you?
      As I have said dozens of times here, I believe that ALL of us are created equla, and the ideas and ideals of all of us, as long as they do no harm, NEED to be upheld. Your belief that nonChristian ideas and ideals need to be ground down, outlawed, sued, etc.—well, you are attempting to put YOUR prejudice in this regard into effect. And, when that happens there will no longer be freedom of ANY kind in the United States.

      • Joe H.

        “I believe all are created equally” unless they disagree with you right, phred???

        • phred

          I replied to Joe H. a few posts below, but this has to be a repeat of what I said then.
          I apologize, Joe H., I had tried to give you credit for having a higher IQ than “keith” I realize now how wrong I had been, and, for that gaffe, I apologize.
          Your posts are seriously degenerating on apparent intelligence, almost as if your tutor has left you in a lurch.

  • L, USA

    “eyesdarkened” or should I say “keith”, Repent [ye, and be baptized].

    • L.USA

      Quest-i-on; Could “eyeswideopen” and “keith” be one and the same (im)poster?

      • libertytrain

        I don’t think so -

      • phred

        Y’know, I have wondered why have a certain bunch become so insistant upon preaching their religious views to folks like me who tell them that we are nonChristian. Why it is so important to them that their bible get top billing (even when they misquote it, or make up stuff about it. Such things as telling us that in older days, people had life spans approaching 1000 years, and the atmosphere was 8 times thicker than it is now, etc.).
        Why they become so insistant that I accept the Jesus propositions that they present?
        It was as I awakened this morning that it came
        to me, and the responses on this thread from such Liberty Digest luminaries as L,USA, and Yandle, and Joe H., and keith displays it to great extent. I thank you guys for not only clarifying this for me, but for verifying it. The fact is, you feel threatened by someone who doesn’t share the same spiritual pursuits as yourselves! Somehow, if we don’t all kow-tow, bow down, kneel in the presence of your thoughts, you feel weakened, or something.
        Now, why would I say something like that? Here’s the facts, and they are presented by these folks all over this thread: I point out that their views, based as SOME of them are, on their interpretation of their “holy” book, are not shared by all of us. I point out that I don’t care that they have these views, but there are other ways of looking at it, etc. I do my best NOT to make threatening remarks, just to point out that others have other views, and these other views are just as valid as their own. Yet, they can not allow those other views to be expressed without the name calling, the insults, the misquotes, the deliberate misinterpretations of what has been said.
        Now, I ask you, especially those of you who have been specifically named above, just exactly what causes you such fears? Why do you feel threatened by the fact that I am nonChristian?
        The only “reason” I can think of is this:
        You are afraid that if a view that includes ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL is allowed, that your religious ideas will not be upheld, and you will not be allowed to slam those of some other belief than yourselves. But, of course, that would be a selfish thing, and don’t you all claim that your “Christianity” compels you to NOT be selfish?

        And, keith, your point #5 above, where you tell me that I must NOT believe that the bible you thump is written by “God” but by hu-mans? Ahhh, ya caught me, man! That’s exactly what I believe! But then I’ve said that many times, right here, eh? That may be where you got that idea, right?

        I would ask y’all, the next time you decide to deride me or anyone else for being a nonChristian that you first ask yourselves, “Why in the world does this threaten me so much?” Same is true of such things as having a homosexual in the military. Ask, “How does this threaten me or cause me harm?” Or, if two men wish to be wed? Or a farmer wishes to marry the oak tree on his back forty? “How does this cause me harm?” In each of those cases, I see no harm, thus, no foul! Try to make a real answer, an acceptably logical answer, an answer that the Supreme Being may accept and understand. If there IS such an answer, my guess is that it will be WELL outside the arena of your religion and your bible, and might even find itself outside of your discriminatory biases.

        • Joe H.

          phred,
          Please!!! I wouldn’t feel threatened by you if you had a gun in my face. People like you are no threat to me. Couldn’t be if you wanted!!
          See, you have shown your true colors tonight and at other times and I can read you like a book!!!You slipped up by trying to impress us with your age right after your buddy said this site was too full of old farts. You didn’t even say anything to him as you would have being the horses behind you are!!! Now I will never believe a thing you say here again!!!

          • eyeswideopen

            JoeH, so now phred is responsible for refuting something someone else stated? You are too funny. I suppose that phred was just instinctively supposed to know that someone else’s statement about “old farts” bothered you and was supposed to call him out??? LMAO.

          • Joe H.

            eyesreligeouslyshut,
            Being the north end of a south bound horse that he is, Phred could never pass up a chance to correct someone on that subject if he was indeed 60 years old. he would have even corrected his buddy leonard in that case. Kinda like you saying how old you are but not being the least upset if they take the money you paid into social security!!! I don’t believe you served in VietNam anymore than I believe your buddy is 60!!!!

          • phred

            Joe H. I apologize! I had tried to give you credit for having a higher IQ than “keith”. Please forgive me for that gaffe. It is obvious from THIS post that I was wrong to have given you such credit.

  • Yandle

    As for the subject of this Post, it is not “gays in the military” it is “Openly Gay People In The Military MAY THREATEN RELIGIOUS LIBERTIES. What we need is more wisdom (Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom; and to depart from evil is understanding) and knowledge (The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction) in our country’s policy making.
    In the USA we have the freedom to be non-Christians and promote sins, a sinful life, and destruction OR be Christians and as Christians have done, build orphanages, homes for the old and needy, schools, hospitals and charitable organizations for a better life for all (so many schools, hospitals and charitable organizations NOW have been dominated by sinfulness). We do not need legislation that give Sodomites Rights that non-Sodomites would not have which “would result in a zero-tolerance policy toward those who disapprove of homosexual conduct” as this Post points out. Some of the comments in this post show “zero-tolerance” by Sodomites for Christians to speak their convictions but Christians are not saying Sodomites are to be denied their freedom of speech. Where are any orphanages, homes for the old and needy, schools, hospitals and charitable organizations that Sodomites built. Thank God that not all non-Christians are Sodomites because many non-Christians work to build a better society.
    Sodomites in the military? If it were not for Christians in the military in the founding of this country, the USA as we have known it would never have existed.

    • Joe H.

      Yandle,
      Well said I applaud you loudly!!!

    • eyeswideopen

      Yandle, Religion is beautiful only when it is free and flows from the heart. That is why you should guide and inspire but not legislate behavior. To threaten God’s displeasure when people do not follow rules is being a moral bully and does no service to God. Teachers/leaders are supposed to be shepards and guides, but not the ultimate judges of human behavior. That belongs to God. True men of God never preach hatred but try to heal and draw God’s children together. Jesus preached humility to his apostles and told them they were to excercise authority with gentleness and meekness. He even washed their feet to impress upon their minds the importance of serving people not ruling them. Your statement “freedom to be non-Christians and promote sin” is an awlful statement. Everybody is God’s children, who are you to suggest that Jews promote sin? For all of you knowledge about the Bible, somehow you got off track and have the nerve to decide who is sinful and what sin is worse than others. All those years of studing have not served you very well. You have missed the point of Jesus coming to earth. If you want to understand God, you have the full expression of the Father in Jesus. He is the living expression of the Father’s love, unbegotten from endless time and born into this world in time to manifest God”s love for all his creatures. God is love and what is of God never preaches hate. You sir are preaching hate while judging other and deciding that non-Christians promote sin. Truly a sinful statement on your part.

      • phred

        Joe H. you write much better than keith, yet youu logic abilities are excessively low! First, when I refer to you feeling threatened, it has nothing to do with some kind of physical threat as your reference points to—you feel threatened because someone does not, and will not, follow the religious beliefs that you think they should.
        As for you idiocy about my age, etc. what the @#^$&$#*6 are you talking about? Apparently someone made some reference to age, or toher? Thus when I mentioned that I am almost 64 you refuse to believe that? Huh? If it wasn’t a persoanl reference I’d tell you how STUPID such “logic” is.
        I am sorry that there are those of you, yes, including you, Joe H., who are threatened by those of us who actually think for ourselves and are not among the followers of a religion, and, in this case, particularly your religion. But that’s the way ir is. It seems that, no matter what forum I may go to, or what thread within a forum I may post on, there are those who feel so threatened by someone with other ideas, that there are a number of religious “believers” who will, invariably show their fears by attempting to convert us/me, or begin nothing but insults because we have the termerity to think for ourselves and not be a part of the herd of sheep that they are so loyal to.
        On another thread of the Liberty Digest, Yandle and a gal calling herself “Pat” would post LONG preaches after ANYTHING I would post, telling me that I was bound for Hell, etc., and doing the attempted conversions. They seemed to have totally forgotten that there was a discussion of something ELSE going on, and had only in mind that this phred person had to get on board or, somehow, their ideals would be compromised, I guess. Very much the same as I see here from thos I have already mentioned.
        Now, Joe H., go reread the “comment policy” that heads this forum. i post as “phred”, can’t say how many monkikers you may use, or anyone else. Yous attempted accusation causes me to say that I have ONE handle on the Liberty Digest. Don’t have time, nor inclination to use more than that. But it does appear that perhaps you and “keith” could be two personalities in the same provider.

      • libertytrain

        Eyes, while I don’t agree with you often, I do agree with you on this – good post.

    • phred

      My, my, my, the anti everybody except Christians you show, Yandle, is almost mind boggling!
      First you refer to “Sodomites” over and over again, as the “bad gys”, the guys who promote sin, etc. Now I’ll get back to another reference is a second or two, but first: The term “Sodomites” would, of course, refer to persons coming from, or living in, or, at least, having been born in, Sodom, sister city to Gomohra (I’m sure I misspelled that, and just as sure that someone will correct me). Now, those two cities, mentioned as they were in your bible, were destroyed in one of “Gods” wars upon his creatures, and one lady is reputed to have been turned into a “pillar of salt”. While I have no reason to doubt that something happened in that area, and that perhaps a couple of cities were destroyed in some kind of attacks, these two cities can’t be found—not even remnants of them after their destruction. So, Yandle, if you believe there are still people coming from them, or being born in them, or claiming citizenship there, I am sorry for you!
      That other reference from your post is this:
      “In the US we have the freedom to be nonChristian and promote sin and a sinful life and destruction, OR…” and you go on to attempt to say that only the Christians have helped anyone, built orphanages, etc. So, you refer to “nonChrisitans” as those promoting sin, and destructuion, etc. So,Jews, Hindu, whatever, are ALL the sinners and promoting everything bad, and the Christians, of course, are the ONLY ones promoting anything good. Man, what arrogance! Man, what prejudice! Man, no wonder you get into such fears of having me, a rather vociferous nonChristian, around! And, MAN, how #$&$#*^$%^* wrong your are! Even in the remore area where I live we have a foodbank that is NOT associatied with your religion, but with a combination of religions and just good folks! There are at least as many nonChristian foster parents as Christian ones.
      I really wish you’d open your mind and realize things like this! I don’t expect you to, but it would be a nice thing to see a few of your type actually look for the truth, instead of spouting from your religion!
      This actually goes back to the whole idea of God ITSELF. If, when you use the term “God”, and you capitalize the word, it refers to the Supreme Being, whether you call that, in your language, “God” , “Allah”, “Sugmad”, “The Holy Mother”, or whatever. And ALL religions except Atheism accept that Supreme Being. So, when someone uses the term “God”, that is the reference. It is NOT some Christian exclusive, but the title ALL folks use for that Being.
      That having been said, then, the Quran, the Muhabharata, The Baghavad Gita, and a bunch of other books are “the written word of God”, while in reality they are the attempt of people to understand how the world around them works, to give that world a structure. It is not, necessarily, right, as in when the bible refers to the sun orbitting the earth, etc., and as time goes on science opens more and more of these mysteries, and, thus correct to old beliefs. But, all-in-all, the “holy” books are just handbooks for how things MAY be understood at the time in history in which the book is written.
      At least, tho’, Yandle, you have 9finally) admitted that we DO, in the U.s. have the right to our freedom of religion even if it is not Christian. That’s quite a change, and a good change, from some of your earlier stands!

  • Yandle

    Reply to eyeswideopen,
    Definitions:
    sodomy: copulation with a member of the same sex or with an animal
    sodomite: one who practices sodomy
    From the Merriam-Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary
    I am not the one saying legislate behavior: the Sodomites are trying to do
    that.
    ‘Seek ye out of the book of the LORD, and read:’ (Isa 34:16)
    All men have religion. Religion will not save us from our sin, only Jesus Christ can save us. The first office of the Word of God is to convict us of our sin, ‘Woe is me! for I am undone’ (Isa 6:5). God’s Word produces in us a deeper hatred of sin (I did not say hatred of people) ‘Ye that love the LORD , hate evil’ (Ps 97:10). Where the principle of holiness is planted, there will necessarily be a loathing of all that is unholy and we will be thankful when God’s Word reproves evil in us. This was the experience of David: ‘Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way’ (Ps 119:104). Observe well, it is not merely ‘I abstain from’, but ‘I hate’; not only ‘some’ or ‘many’, but ‘every false way’. ‘Therefore I esteem all thy precepts concerning all things to be right; and I hate every false way’, (Ps 119:128). But it is the very opposite with the wicked: ‘But unto the wicked God saith, What hast thou to do to declare my statutes, or that thou shouldest take my covenant in thy mouth? Seeing thou hatest instruction, and castest my words behind thee’ (Ps 50:16-17). ‘The fear of the LORD is to hate evil’ (Prov 8:13) and this Godly fear comes through reading God’s Word. ‘Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity’ (2 Tim 2:19). ‘Let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit’ (2 Cor 7:1). Though Christ died for the ‘ungodly’ (Rom. 5:6), though He FINDS them ungodly (Rom. 4:5) when He justifies them, yet He does not Leave THEM in that abominable state. On the contray,He effectually teaches them by His Spirit to DENY ungodliness and worldly lust (Titus 2:12). Just as weight cannot be separated from a stone, or heat from a fire, so cannot justification from sanctification. Obedience to God is the heart’s recognition of His lordship: of His right to command, and my duty to comply.
    As for the point why Jesus came to the earth, read what He affirmed. Christ not only said ‘For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost’ (Luke 19:10) but He also said ‘For judgment I am come into this world’ (John 9:39) and ‘I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I if it be already kindled?’ (Luke 12:49) and ‘Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword’ (Matt 10:34) and ‘they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation’ (John 5:29)
    ‘Grace and truth came by Jesus Christ’ (John 1:17) preaching truth is not preaching hatred. I am not preaching here when I make my comments any more than anyone else is preaching when they make their comments.
    True men of God do preach ‘For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God’ (Rom 3:23)
    Jesus washed the feet of His disciples but He never washed the feet of the scribes and Pharisees, and hypocrites.
    You say “Everybody is God’s children” but Jesus Christ said ‘Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do’ (John 8:44) ‘I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father’ (John 8:38)
    Who do I believe you or Jesus Christ, I think Jesus Christ. God’s Word affirms ‘And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?’ (Acts 13:10) and ‘In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil’ (1 John 3:10)
    Everything that non-Christians do promotes sin as God’s Word testifies ‘An high look, and a proud heart, and the plowing of the wicked, is sin’ (Prov. 21:4) If we do not use the air we breathe, the food we eat, and the water we drink for the glory of God we will gave an account.
    Where may I ask, did I mention the Jews? And I never said I had knowledge, I said I study.
    As for God’s love for all His creatures, thus saith the LORD “For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee. The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.” (Ps 5:4-5) and “The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.” (Ps 11:5)
    It is Christ that says ‘he that believeth not is condemned already’ (John 3:18) ‘he that believeth not shall be damned’ (Mark 16:16) ‘Go ye, and tell that fox’ (Luke 13:32) ‘A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign’ (Matt 16:4) and ‘Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!’ (Matt 23:14) ‘It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you’ (Matt 11:22) ‘Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida!’ (Matt 11:21) ‘And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell’ (Matt 11:23) ‘And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire’ (Mark 9:47) ‘He that is of God heareth God’s words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God’ (John 8:47) ‘He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me’ (Luke 10:16) and ‘they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation’ (John 5:29) You say, “To threaten God’s displeasure when people do not follow rules is being a moral bully” so you are saying that Jesus Christ was being a moral bully.
    What about judging? Christ said ‘Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment’. (John 7:24) and ‘Judge not, that ye be not judged.’ (Matt 7:1)
    “The capacity of judging, of forming an estimate and opinion, is one of our most valuable faculties and the right use of it one of our most important duties. ‘Why even of yourselves judge ye not what is right?’ (Luke 12:57) says our Lord; ‘judge righteous judgment’ (John 7:24). If we do not form judgments as to what is true and false, how can we embrace the one and avoid the other?” (John Brown). It is very necessary that we have our “senses exercised to discern [Greek "thoroughly judge"] both good and evil” (Heb. 5:14) if we are not to be deceived by appearances and taken in by every oily-mouthed impostor we encounter. It must not be thought that our Lord here forbade us to act according to the dictates of common prudence and to form an estimate of everything we meet with in the path of duty, nor even that He prohibited us from judging men’s characters and actions according to their avowed principles and visible conduct, for in this very chapter He bids us measure men by this rule, saying, “by their fruits ye shall know them” (verse 20), and many duties to others absolutely require us to form a judgment of men, with respect both to their state and their conduct. Unless we form estimates and come to a decision of what is good and evil in those we meet with we shall be found rejecting the one and condoning the other. “Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves” (Matthew 7:15): how shall we heed this injunction unless we carefully measure every preacher we hear by the Word of God? “Have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them” (Eph. 5:11): in order to obey this we are obliged to exercise a judgment as to what are “works of darkness.” “We command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly” (2 Thess. 3:6): this compels us to decide who is “walking disorderly.” “Mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them” (Rom. 16:17): this requires us to determine who are guilty of such things. Thus it is abundantly clear that our Lord’s prohibition in Matthew 7:1, is by no means to be taken absolutely.
    I am not preaching hate, I am presenting the Word of God before you but you must, ‘Seek ye out of the book of the LORD, and read:’ (Isa 34:16) and ‘For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:’ (Isa 28:10)

    • eyeswideopen

      Yandle, when you stated “non-Christians promote sin, you were indicting the Jews, or did you miss that? If you are going to use the Bible as a book to dictate behavior, you will be in turmoil, as the contradictions are many. Truly religious people do not do things, such as promote hatred in the name of Jesus or religion. That blasphemes the name of God by teaching others to hate the children of God. Much has been left undone, so men and women can fulfil their purpose on earth by channeling God’s riches to one another. Hunger, poverty, and injustice exist because so many horde God’s treasures for themselves and their families, or for political power, and the rest of the world goes starving or in dire want. It is the sin of those who refuse to share what God has entrusted to them. It is for such that hell exists, for they will be unable to bear the reflection of their own greed and selfishness in the face of God’s infinite goodness. There is too much hatred and fear in the world. Fear comes from not knowing, and hatred comes from fear of being threatened. Men who pose as instruments of God are the very ones who are doing the work of Satan by preaching hatred and suspicion among God’s children. True men of God never preach hatred but try to heal and draw God’s children together. Your response and accusations against all who aren’t Christian is hateful and exposes you as someone who has knowledge but no understanding of what a Christian is.Quoting passages from the Bible, while identifing those who you think anger and hatred should be directed at, is not what Jesus would have us Christians do. But your God and mine must be very different. My God’s way is not a way of violence but a way of peace that he wants for all his children, even those who aren’t Christians. He will deal with non Christians in his own way, and it is not up to us to judge them or demean them. Here is a little test for you. Find in the Bible where Jesus ever said that Christians had to marry before an apostle or a priest. Yet, Christians have legislated that if a Catholic does not marry before a priest or marries before another without permission, the marriage is invalid and the couple live in sin. Why is it when Christians act like the Pharisees did by dictating details of peoples lives by making them answerable to them for their behavior, nobody sees the correlation? My behavior is answerable only to God, not to you. I will pray for you.

      • Yandle

        eyeswideopen,
        The word non-Christian has nothing to do with Jews, period. A non-Christian is anyone who is not a Christian. You cannot find one contradiction in God’s Word. I did not say one word with hate in anything I stated. You have not searched your Bible to see one thing that is Thus saith the LORD. Did you not read one verse that I shared with you, I guess not. You say “But your God and mine must be very different” and you are right because my God is the God of the one and only Holy Bible. You are so full of self and hate that you cannot accept the truth of God. I cannot tell you all the reasons why your Roman Catholic church teaches wrong doctrine about marriage. I have told you before, If Christ is not your LORD, then most certainly He is not your “Savior”. If you do not want me to give you a BIBLE answer, do not ask me a BIBLE question. Besides it is obvious by your remarks, that you are not going to believe the BIBLE. If you want to talk about God’s Word learn something from God’s Word. I do not have time to spend on mere human opinions. I prefer to learn the truth which only comes from God’s Word.

        • libertytrain

          Yandle – I don’t think Eyes is Catholic so you don’t have to attack her on that front – and attack you do – very Christian of you – very God-like and a fine example of Jesus.

      • phred

        Thank you eyeswideopen, this was an excellent post. I don’t necessarily agree with all of the things you said, but you are one of the Christians that I refer to as those with whom I, or anyon se, can have a good, honest, open discussion wthout becoming the objects of hate. In an earlier post Yandle actually accused me of only posting “mock-mock” and name-calling. he’s done the same on other threads and when challenged to show me where I have stooped to name-calling he becomes oddly silent.
        You, sir, are one of the 85% or more of Christians who actually seem to have heard the Word(!), or Song, of the Supremity.

  • Jeremy

    I dont get it. Christians in the military already seem to be able to serve alongside open athiests and wiccans. wouldnt they be more of a morale and welfare problem for the troops than serving alongside someone who is gay? seems like someone next to me out in the battlefield telling me my prayers for safety wont be answered would be a bigger letdown than a guy telling me i looked good.

    • phred

      I don’t know, Jeremy, maybe you should talk to Joe H. Or keith. They may have some meditational techniques that will help you to become relgiophobic, and homophobic, perhaps germophobic, logicophobic, maybe politicophobic. Ya might even become phredophobic as Joe seems to be.
      Keith came up with a line about the guy in the foxhole with me looking at my but instead of shooting at the enemy—something like that.
      Wishing ALL of our fighting forces would actually fight for the ideals and liberties that America stands for, and stop the craziness of fighting against some imagined form of abomination to their lord, whether that be homosexuality, or religions thay don’t like!

  • phred

    Yandle says,
    “eyeswideopen,
    The word nonChristian has nothing to do with the Jews, period. A nonChristian is anyone who is not a Christian.”
    Is this where I should insert the “mock-mock” you have accused me of, Yandle? You see, a Jew is NOT a Christian. So, by your very own definition, and in the very next line after you say “…nonChristian has nothing to do with the Jews, period.”, you tell us that it (the term nonChristian), indeed MUST include Jews, for they are not Christian. Ahhh, but I suppose when one does ones best to make such determinations based, as you seem wont to do, on the hatred for those of someother spiritual pursuits, logic will become a rather blurry concept, won’t it?
    You claim that NONE of your posts have been done out of hatred. You, sir, are, quite frankly, a liar. ALL of your posts in which you try to answer me are quite totally based on your hatred for nonChristians, or, as you wish to call them, Sodomites.
    There are seven major religions on planet earth, and many more which would be minor ones. And within each, there are sects and subsects (denominations if you are Christian), and each seems to believe that THEY have it RIGHT. Your religion fits you, especially as you take to the idea of hating others so well and easily. But fitting you and your mindset does not make your religion any more valid than the Buddhist. Or the Zoroastrian. Or the Hindi. They believe just as fervently in their ways as you do in yours. And, wonderfully, in the United States they still have the right to do so. Until you and yours push through your agenda and the U.S.A. becomes the Christian Dictatorship you seem to wish so hard that it become.

  • Yandle

    phred,
    “mock-mock” One more of your exact quote, Right?
    phred, You say ” You see, a Jew is NOT a Christian” but as always you are wrong because some Jews are Christians. If I want to say Jew I would have said Jew but this is just more of your attacking the ‘writer of a comment’ instead of ‘the thought in the WORDS of a comment’ and the bottom line is that you are still mocking God.
    Words are the way one relates thoughts and information which you lack to show in any of your comments. Speaking of WORDS here is a sample of the ones you use:
    [again, and again, and again, and again, and….); thatr disagrees; I lioke; Then how the hell; WQant to see a fool–(oh, yea, “say not thy fool”, fool); (refreincing my friends; how #$&$#*^$%^*; what the @#^$&$#*6; a mish-mash-mess of; etc., etc., etc.; not a #$%&&#*$%(&^)*8; Where in $#%$#& did]
    Real solid communications phred.

    phred , You call me a liar only because you cannot stand the truth and you cannot speak the truth. As for my feeling when I make a statement, YOU do not have a clue. When you say that I speak with hate it only shows how little you know. You make that statement because you hate the truth. As always, you state that which is not true by saying that I said all “nonChristians, or, as you wish to call them, Sodomites” , when in fact not once did I state “non-Christians are Sodomites” but Sodomites are non-Christian. Sodomites are ones who practice sodomy (look in a dictionary). phred check who is the liar when you state that I said “you tell us that it (the term nonChristian), indeed MUST include Jews”; I made no such statement. Maybe a little example will help you understand English: You find fish in water but in all water you do not find fish. For someone to tell a non-Christian (which all men are or have been) does not constituent hate and many Christians have gave their life to try to keep someone else from eternal damnation.

    If You think the word non-Christian equates to the word Jew than put the word Jew in these places (and more) where you use the word non-Christian:
    [January 22, 2010 at 11:22 pm for anybody who happens to be nonChristian;
    January 23, 2010 at 5:39 pm isn’t it wonderful how anyone who is nonChristian;
    January 25, 2010 at 7:07 pm Being nonChristian does not indicate some kind;
    January 25, 2010 at 7:29 pm the idea that us nonChristians;
    January 25, 2010 at 10:32 pm anyone who is nonChristian is;
    January 26, 2010 at 8:58 pm can’t understand how telling nonChristians;
    January 28, 2010 at 6:14 pm she hates everybody who is nonChristian;
    January 29, 2010 at 11:39 pm every time you hear the word nonChristian;
    January 30, 2010 at 1:06 am us who have the termerity to be nonChristian;]

    No Christian wants the U.S.A. to becomes the “Christian Dictatorship” because Christ’s Kingdom is not of this world.
    I state again: phred,
    Have you ever thought about what you write. You have no logic, no facts, and no substance. You only have name calling, mocking, and insult . You attack people, not the subject, you ramble, you “if if” and when someone responds to your ignorance you say they have left the subject. I must have really made an impression on you(I would have hope it had been for your good but evidently not) because you cannot often write a comment in any post without using my name but that is ok if I am the only subject (how limited you are) you have.

    I will not waste my God given time to answer all of your foolishness. May God have Mercy on your soul

    • phred

      Yandle, what does it take for you to admit you are a liar? I did a DIRECT quote of your very words. Those words are still here, and come from your post of March 14th, @ 8:48 PM. It’s the first lines of that post. Yet you try to deny the words you said—the verbatim quote of them? Yeah, you are, indeed lying, and isn’t that the definition of a liar?
      You are correct. I am not a typist, and often make typos. My computer also often misses and/or loses whole words, etc. Do you know the word deficate? That is what you do when you try to use typos as if it is causing some kind of harm. And, indeed, I need to become better at proofreading. And will endeavor to do so.
      You, however, need to become MUCH better at reading what is being said to you, and at noticing what you, yourself have written. You also need to discover that you are NOT superior to the nonChristians you work so hard to berate. Seems to me that your bible addresses that very issue of prideful persons. ‘Course, I doubt that would have any issue with you since at one point you also wrote “For I am God”, and it was niether in quotes, nor did it seem to be an attempt at quoting! Want me to show you those words you said, too? Okay, ’twas March 15th @ 8:03 AM
      Hey all those quotes you did of me using the term “nonChristian”? Wow, how impressive—or it would be if it made a nickles worth of sense. Exactly what does any of my use of the word “nonChristian”, as a self descriptive, have to do with me being a Jew? I am NOT a Jew, nor at any time do I lay such a claim. I only showed you how stupid your words were in claiming that “nonChristian” as used by yourself didn’t include Jews. Then, probably the stupidist thing I’ve read from you is in this most recent post, i.e., “….because some Jews are Christian.” Yeah, as are, I’d suppose, in your mind, some Atheists are Christian. And some Muslims are Christian. And—well, what can I say?
      As for your paragraph where you repeat an earlier post of yours, as to me not having any logic, facts, substance, etc. Fact is, Yandle, the only reason you can’t find logic, facts, substance, in my posts is your prejudice and your hate for those of us of other spiritual pursuits. You accuse me of mocking, of attacking on a personal basis, etc. Yup, I do sometimes write using sarcasm because of the statements of another. If that’s mocking to you, so be it. But I do not resort to personal attacks, as you have, and as Joe H, keith, L,USA do. Nor, and I’ve challenged you on this one before, only to note your silence on the issue, exactly where have I stooped to the name calling you accuse me of? Read Joe H’s stuff. He does the name calling in almost every post. You love the term “Sodomite” while having no idea if someone has committed what may be called an act of sodomy or not.
      It is apparent that, in your world, anyone who has the termerity to NOT accept your version of your religion is beneath you, is fair game for your loathing, and needs to be either corrected or eliminated.
      So, if you STILL wish that you be considered to be following the “religion of Love”, perhaps you should look for a way to get around your hatrred for those who are nonChristian (including those pesky Jews!)

      • DDC

        to whom it may concern,—if you do not believe in God as your personal Savior. You are doomed for hell. A lake of fire with eternal torment.

        Either you do believe in God or you do not believe in God. If you do believe in God, and made a profession of faith, then you will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. If you do not believe in God, and have not made a profession of faith. Then you are bound for hell.

        REMEMBER, God Loves You

        • Yandle

          Thank God for your stand for the gospel.

          Thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

          Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place.

          May God bless your soul and body

  • phred

    ooops, sorry, yes, I did call you a liar—and, technically that is name calling. However, when it is so obvious, and so easily proveable, and supportable to do so by simply quoting your very own words, well, name calling isn’t the same bad thing if it’s a fact. Which, in this case, it obviously is.

  • Yandle

    phred,
    In my comment on March 16, 2010 at 8:56 am in the samples of what you put in your comments and call facts, are exactly what you intended to be in those comments. They were not typos but I overlook that kind of foolishness. I never called you a Jew or used the word Jew here until someone else brought it up. I do not use the word Jew derogating, period.[Jew: a member of the tribe of Judah (Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary).] If you are as ignorant as you appear in your comments, You have my honest sympathy but I do not think you are. There are NO lies in anything I have stated, PERIOD!

    PHRED, when YOU STATE as you did above and make a comment LIKE THIS: “at one point you also wrote “For I am God”,” than put IT IN QUOTATION MARKS saying that I said, For I am God, AS IF I WERE TALKING about myself, I CAN NOT BELIEVE EVEN YOU WOULD STOOP SO LOW. If I give a verse from the BIBLE such as “Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else” and YOU take out the words, “for I am God”, and for you to bluntly SAY THAT I WAS REFERRING TO MYSELF is despicable and that is the way the devil misquotes THE WORD OF GOD. Christ said, “Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not”.

    Thus saith the LORD, “When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand. Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul” Ezek 3:18-19. “For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.” John 3:17-18
    I have warned you of sin and told you if you will “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved” Acts 16:31. You can use my name in vain, you can misquote me, but “Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap” Gal 6:7. Jesus Christ said “And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city” Mark 6:11.

    May God have mercy on your soul

    • phred

      Good, I can comment to both Yandle AND DDC.
      Take your horrendous prejudice against anyone of some spiritual pursuit OTHER THAN YOUR OWN, and find an old camel that has “loose bowel syndrome” and stuff it there, into the bowel chute. Okay? I don’t know how to put it any better. We have some Christians here who can actually allow others to have their beliefs. In the world at large, we have the same, and they are of the majority of Christians. Some of you, however,in your desire to be held above others, seem to need to claim the superiority of yourselves and your religous views.
      I have told you that I have a terrific relationship with the Supreme Being, that I communicate with IT and many other, lower figures of the spiritual realms, on a consistant basis, But, of course, in your role as SUPERIORS, you can’t fathom such. You need to retreat to your bible, written as it is, and was, by fallible hu-man beings, and compiled into what now constitutes yur bible, and do the constant put downs of anyone who does not accept the same teachings as yourselves. You, Yandle, selectively take passages even from that in order to put down anyone with whom you may have some spiritual or religious disagreements. You, Yandle, also have a habit of deciding what soemone else believes, trying to say that I am, somehow, a Jew, that eyeswideopen is, somehow, a Roman Catholic—neither of which has any evidence here on this thread. In other threads you have decided to call me a Muslim. So what’s the next step for you. In a subsequent thread, perhaps you will decide that I am the “antiChrist”, eh?
      Yandle, I have proven, beyond not only a reasonable doubt, but beyond a shadow of a doubt that you are a liar. I have done so using your own words! I have quoted you, shown the ridiculousness of some of your pronouncements, asked, several times when you include other threads on the Liberty Digest, to show me where I have stooped to name calling (which you have, BTW, and THAT’S proveable too), proven you a liar, yet still you attack with as much as you can muster.
      Why? Why, Yandle, are you so threatened by someone because they are of a different spiritual pursuit from you? How does someone thinking differently than you cause you such fears and tremblings? And exactly how does the phrase, “THAT ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL” provoke such hatred in you?
      Tell us again how “some Jews are Christians”, okay? Tell us, again, how, “The word nonChristian has nothing to do with Jews. A nonChristian is anyone who is not Christian.”
      Do you, as some of your number do, wonder why nonChristians may call you arrogant? It is EXACTLY this personal belief you exhibit in your own superiority to those of a different bent on the religion/spiritual side of things. And you definately display hate for those of us who do that. Once again I will tell you that a Muslim is every bit as strong in his/her belief in their religion. A Buddhist is every bit a strong in his/her belief in their religion, as you are in yours. Yet you believe that ONLY you and a few of your fellows have actually found the CORRECT way, the RIGHT religion, the PROPER “holy” book, etc.
      Looking forward to reading your posts on the next Liberty Digest thread which gets into these kiond of religious debates. Looking forward to showing you ( and other readers) the lies, the put downs of others, the attempted displays of superiority that seems to be your stock-in-trade in these matters.
      Or, maybe you will decide that preaching your hatred for others is antiproductive. Nah, I have doubts about that! Seems you love to hate, to me!

      • DDC

        phred being a Christian that I am I do not hate anyone. I respect people that worship in different ways. We are not to judge anyone, and I don’t.

        I am a strong believer in the one that died on the old rugged cross for MY sins.

        I am a Navy Seal, and will be leaving to go to Afghanistan in June. My second trip there, and have served in Iraq three terms. I go with God as my Lord and Savior, and depend on Him to deliver me safely back home to my family and friends. I am a strong believer in prayer, because I have been in situations that I prayed to God to help me get through. I know God answers prayers.

        I have know problem with other peoples religion. I just know that god is real, and He protects me from all harm. If He sees to take me to be with Him in my Heavenly Home, I am prepared to go.

        I do this to protect the United States, and the people here at home, and the American soil. My prayers are with all of you. GOD BLESS.

        • Yandle

          DDC,
          May God be with you and I pray that God bless your soul and body.

          • DDC

            Yandle Thanks Brother. I would be nothing without God. He has brought me through some mighty troubled times. Our God is AWESOME. May God Bless You, And All His Children. GOD BLESS AMERICA.

  • JohnB

    Take a lesson from history: Alexander the Great, who’s army was a mixture of gays and straights, never lost a battle. Hitler, who killed all the gays in his army, lost the war and killed millions of people doing so. Even Frederick the Great was gay, and he won all his battles. We’re all adults here, and I’m sure with proper indoctrination the gays and straights can get along together. Instead of “Don’t ask, don’t tell”, it should be “Don’t ask, do tell”, through the use of insignias on their uniforms. That way there would be no confusion or doubt, and each person could conduct themselves accordingly. The laws against harassment should apply to both parties, gay and straight, and that would be a fair and equitable rule of conduct. The Europeans and several other nations already accept gays, why shouldn’t we as well.

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    I have been seeking reliable recommendations on natural health and think that your site is . It is not easy to find savvy ideas on the Web, but I think I can put it to good use! If you know of any more good information, please let me know. Thanks a million!

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