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Filling Up On Stupid

May 11, 2011 by  

Filling Up On Stupid

The next time you pull into a gas station and pull out $100 from your wallet, take a look around. Notice the other vehicles that are sucking up the $4-per-gallon gasoline. My guess is you would be hard-pressed to find a late-model car, truck or SUV that has anything smaller than a 200-horsepower engine.

I know more than half-a-dozen family and friends driving vehicles that punch out a mind-numbing 300 to 500 horsepower. That is a lot of ponies unless you spend your Friday nights down at the local drag strip.

It was not supposed to turn out this way. Thirty-five years ago, I carpooled to the University of Calgary with my best friend Dave. The world had just come off of two OPEC-induced oil shocks and he drove a 1976 Honda Civic. It looked exactly like the car pictured at the top, replete with the tiny fog lights and the canary-yellow paint.

Dave’s Honda had a 91-cubic-inch engine that produced 53 horsepower. For four years, we drove 40 miles round-trip in it. On alternate weeks we took my car, a 1976 Mercury Capri. That was a bit of a hot rod for its day, generating 130 horsepower.

What I remember most about Dave’s Honda is that it got us to class on time, it never broke down and we passed a lot of gas stations. It was to be the wave of the future.

But in the early 1980s, crude-oil prices fell all the way to $12 per barrel. People stopped caring about fuel economy and became obsessed with horsepower and status.

From 1984 through 2010, the fuel economy of new U.S. cars increased… from 27 mpg to 27.5 mpg. Forget the tech revolution. In the past three decades, the average car can now go half a mile farther on a gallon of gasoline.

Source: Wikipedia

 

As a result, it is not hard to understand that demand for gasoline in the U.S. has nearly doubled in the past 35 years.

The Wall Street Journal addressed the issue a year ago with a story which asked: Whatever happened to fuel efficiency? According to the newspaper, “If there is a super fuel-efficient car in your future, then it was built in 1986.”

The Journal pointed out the Environmental Protection Agency’s top 10 list of cars with the best fuel economy in history. According to The Journal: “Many of the best haven’t been available in showrooms for years or even decades.”

“In addition to music, the 1980s were a high point for fuel-efficient cars,” concluded the WSJ. “Even when judged against today’s high-tech hybrids, cars like the 1987 Honda CRX shine.”

The CRX was updated version of my friend Dave’s ’76 Honda Civic. Like that Civic, the CRX was fun, dependable and it got 47 mpg! It turned out nobody wanted it.

The New “Stupid” Car

It almost seems as if Detroit doesn’t even know what the price of gasoline is.

A few weeks ago, Ford announced its newest Mustang, the Shelby Super Snake (try saying that four times in row). In case you are worried about merging onto the interstate, you can take comfort in knowing the Super Snake pumps out 800 horsepower. That is about the same horsepower Japan used in Zero fighters during World War II, and it will catapult today’s new Mustang from zero to 60 in fewer than 4 seconds. If luxury is more your style, you can pick up the Cadillac CTS-V super sedan with its 556-horsepower supercharged engine that gives you a top speed of 190 mph.

With products like these, it is not hard to see how Detroit has been broke and begging Washington for money since Chrysler first got on bended knee in 1980.

The real question is: Why do we ignore all common sense when it comes to things like cars, yet complain when we have to pay so much at the gas pump? (By the way, I don’t exempt myself from these criticisms. My lust for fast cars ended only after I almost killed myself in my 1995 Chevy Camaro. By today’s standards, the Camaro was relatively tame, generating just 275 horsepower and a top speed of only 155 mph.)

It’s the Economy that Needs Turbo-charging

Remember the 1980s when America had a fast economy and slow automobiles? Today, it is the opposite. Unemployment is a chronic problem. Credit is almost gridlocked. And inflation is starting to boil over. A single oil shock — say upheaval in Saudi Arabia — could send the U.S. economy over a cliff.

Even-higher gasoline prices would quickly choke off U.S. consumer spending, the one bright spot in a dull economy. Say gasoline gets above $7 per gallon. In that case, there won’t be much left to spend on clothes, entertainment and even basics like food and mortgages.

That is exactly what happened in the 1970s following two oil embargoes. The price of crude oil rocketed from $3 per barrel to $36 per barrel. Unemployment soared from 4.9 percent in 1973 to 5.6 percent in 1974 and then hit 8.5 percent in 1975. Then, things got bad. As a result, the Dow Jones Industrial Average lost two-thirds of its inflation-adjusted value by 1980.

All this happened just more than a generation ago, yet we Americans continue to make stupid mistakes — from the cars we choose to the leaders we elect.

For example, President Barack Obama wants to spend billions of dollars on new rail systems, new solar-energy power plants and electric cars — most of them built off a blueprint that doesn’t even exist.

My question is: Why don’t we improve our economic prospects by returning to tried-and-true technologies (like fuel-efficient cars) while exploring and developing America’s own fossil fuel reserves, especially those offshore and in Alaska?

The answer comes down to two words: power and corruption. Despite the fact taxpayers keep bailing out Detroit, U.S. automakers could not care less about what is good for the country. They care about padding profits and collecting big bonuses. And you don’t have to be an automotive engineer to see the fat profits in an 800-horsepower muscle car compared to an economy car that gets 50 mpg.

As a nation, we must start making smarter choices because we are running out of chances. When I was going to college in that Honda, the U.S. imported 6 million barrels of crude oil each day. Today, the U.S. imports twice that amount (see chart below). Yet Washington doesn’t bat an eye as Madison Avenue convinces us we cannot possibly be happy unless we have a 300-horsepower V-8 parked in the garage.

 

U.S. Imports of Crude Oil and Petroleum Products (Thousand Barrels per Day)

Through it all, Obama proclaims he wants to rebuild America, make it a Green utopia fabricated from fanciful wishes and borrowed money.

But listen hard and you can almost hear them coming: a mechanized army of Obama electric cars. What a shame when all we needed was to modernize that little yellow Honda and elect some good leaders.

Yours in good times and bad,

John Myers

Editor, Myers’ Energy & Gold Report

John Myers

is editor of Myers’ Energy and Gold Report. The son of C.V. Myers, the original publisher of Oilweek Magazine, John has worked with two of the world’s largest investment publishers, Phillips and Agora. He was the original editor for Outstanding Investments and has more than 20 years experience as an investment writer. John is a graduate of the University of Calgary. He has worked for Prudential Securities in Spokane, Wash., as a registered investment advisor. His office location in Calgary, Alberta, is just minutes away from the headquarters of some of the biggest players in today’s energy markets. This gives him personal access to everyone from oil CEOs to roughnecks, where he learns secrets from oil insiders he passes on to his subscribers. Plus, during his years in Spokane he cultivated a network of relationships with mining insiders in Idaho, Oregon and Washington.

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  • Cawmun Cents

    For thirty years I have watched as people living in the city buy and drive big 4 wheelers,that dont have sratches or dents in them.I doubt very seriously whether they ever get used for recreational purposes.And yet it is the suburbanites dream to own a 4 wheeler that he will never even put in 4/low and drive up a hill with…its freakin hilarious.Those things may get 12-15 mpg on the highway,6-10 in the city.Its a joke how many folks never booney crash now days.I have a 4 wheeler but it gets used as much as I can.It has scratches and dents,and has been hauled up out of a river once….once.

    • karolyn

      We do agree on this, Cawmun. Too many people go into debt strictly for the “prestige” of owning a big FWD, when half of them never haul much of anything other than a few kids.

      • DaveH

        Yeah, what right do those people have to spend their own hard-earned money on their own choices? String’em up!

        • PaulR.

          Yeah, everyone can spend their hard earned money on whatever they want **BUT** if you feel the necessity to own and drive a Hummer (any of the models) or a CTSV or a Super Snake, don’r pi** and moan when gasoline gets to be $7.00 a gallon and it takes you $190.00 to fill up you gas tank. Twice a week. Or just maybe you’re one of the fortunate few who don’t have to care how much gas costs: you’ll just hand your credit card over to the chauffer and have HIM fill up the monster…

          As for me, I commute 150 miles each day (total) to work ’cause ther’s nothing closer in my field, and I drive an ’06 Cobalt getting about 34 mpg. I cringe at filling up for $40.00…

          • http://www.firsthollywooddigital.com Milena

            No, he is one of the fortunate ones that owns stakes in the oil industry. he was oilmens magazine writer…what do you expect? he is trying to stay on the oil side even when it is chalking us all. I see no better than electrical cars and windmills and solar. He is …well whatever I say now it will be a mild description for I am really pissed at the author of this …### article.
            I agree cars should be gas savy but where was he about 20 years ago?

          • Richard Pawley

            If it weren’t for the EPA we could buy the five passenger VW Polo that gets 74 mpg in real time driving. It has one of the cleanest diesels on earth (and one of ten popular diesels that Europeans can drive but we can not). These are not the smoky cars or trucks we might have seen as kids. One of them even pollutes less than the ‘green’ Prius. VW also has an experimental two passenger prototype (the XL1) that gets over 250 mpg – really! VW says they may be selling it by 2013 and it can drive over 20 miles just on the batteries.

        • JeffH

          DaveH, I agree. I’ve prefer and drive big vehicles, currently a ’99 Yukon 4dr, 4WD with 124,000 on it that gets 13city & 15-17hwy mpg and it runs like a top. Why? Because I feel safer and because I like the roominess. I’ve had it in 4wd maybe 3 times since I bought it in ’04. I almost killed myself and possibly others in a ’99 Ford Escort station wagon in Oakland because I couldn’t see traffic farther ahead slamming on their brakes. I was scared and lucky. Swore off little cars right there.

          As for those driving big SUV’s just to keep up with the Joneses, I know that the housing bubble scam created false equity which people used to buy their toys and SUV’s. Now who created the housing bubble? Thanks to the quasi-government agencies of Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and the Federal Housing Administration. Another common denominator…government involvement.

          Back to the auto/gas mileage deal. The Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) enacted in 1975 was intended to increase gas mileage in new vehicles. In 1993, the Clinton administration grandiosely announced the “Program for a New Generation of Vehicles”, which showered the then-Big Three with about a billion bucks to produce a fuel-sipper. It never appeared.

          The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration regulates CAFE standards and the US Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) measures vehicle fuel efficiency. US Congress specifies that CAFE standards must be set at the “maximum feasible level”. The EPA has encouraged consumers to buy more fuel efficient vehicles, while the NHTSA expressed concerns that smaller, more fuel efficient vehicles may lead to increased traffic fatalities. Thus higher fuel efficiency was associated with lower traffic safety, intertwining the issues of fuel economy, road-traffic safety, air pollution, and climate change.

          Government intervention just creates mass confusion.

          Just an FYI…the Shelby GT500 Super Snake with 750-800HP gets 13/19 mpg and several of the newer, high horsepower cars and trucks are getting as high as 31mpg and averageing around 19-22mpg.

        • Jay

          Electric cars, windmills and solar panels? Heck, why not just go with the horse and buggy and plant trees, walk around naked and pick fleas out of each other’s hair? Have you hugged your tree lately?

          • Jay

            My post was for Milena and Paul, the sour grape eating team. Would you like a little cheese with your whine?

        • Karolyn

          Dave – To me it’s a sign of this self-centered, keeping up with the Jones’s society we live in, and the reason other countries look down their noses at us. Like we’re so much better than everybody else. I don’t care what anybody does and am certainly not jealous. I’m very happy with my ’95 Escort wagon that suits me just fine. I just disagree with the whole materialistic way our society functions. I live about 60 miles south of Charlotte, NC, and my mind is boggled when I am up there and see so many Escalades, etc. driving around the city. I can’t help but wonder where these people get all this money in this economy.

          • Warrior

            So Karolyn,

            Somehow it’s ok to have the elected representitives ride around in limo’s and SUV’s and take jet ride’s on the taxpayers dime?

          • Cawmun Cents

            Please dont misconstrue my personal observation of cityots(combination of city dwellers and idiots)owning 4WD’S as pro-environmentalism.I despise granola chewers.Yet,watching how folks function is a hobby of mine.I am keenly aware of my proxi….the ape that throws fecal matter at you in the zoo,but I have as much fun watching you,as you do dodging my fecal matter.I feel that if I want to own a gas guzzler,stock in an oil company,a bazooka,cesium 235,tickets to a Ted Nugent concert,or whatever irritates a tree romantic/PETA vegan,then it is my God given,liberty livin’right to do so.I feel that for everyone else who loves red meat,firearms,and being offensive to others…..-CC.

          • DaveH

            It’s this “materialistic” society, Karolyn, that has allowed even the poorest people to live better lives. If you aren’t materialistic then why do you aid and abett the Socialists in their efforts to take other peoples’ money? It seems to me that a non-materialistic person would have no interest in other peoples’ money. And don’t tell me you don’t, we all know different.

        • Cawmun Cents

          My observation was that I find it hilarious how some will spend(I realize it is their prerogative)extra thousands for something that never gets used.It just seems wasteful,thats all.When I was in Alaska,I had a 65 dodge Powerwagon,and in low gear that thing could practically climb a tree.One time when I was going down a steep hill that came to a “T” crossing with a stop sign,I hit a patch of black ice.I could not stop at the crossing so I hung a left and rode the guardrail for 20 yards or so,narrowly missing a logging truck as it came from the same direction,headed sraight at me.Talk about your a-hole puckering,sheesh!Unfortunately I could not afford to bring it(the Powerwagon)home with me,when I moved back to California. In Alaska,I lived where there are no roads in or out.You had to have a boat or a plane to enter or leave.I miss that old truck,my Stihl chainsaw,and my Virginian Dragoon .44 Magnum,all of which I had to sell for my boatride back to Seattle…..

          • JeffH

            CC, sounds like a pretty good time in your life. Ah, I could tell some good stories from the past with my 76 Chevy shortbed 4×4, my first. $6600 out the door with air and power stearing. It went everywhere…finally put it to rest in ’97 or’98.

      • http://aol Bill

        Did you notice, the author and his friend had a 1976 cars in college, IN 1976!!!! New cars then, even if economy cars, while in college??? Some author was rich. Where did he go to college? Harvard? Yale? Stanford? I was lucky to own a rusty old 1952 ford wagon while in college in 1964 where I had to live in and sleep in. I had to work and live in my car while in college. I couldn’t work and study, so I flunked out and was drafted to Vietnam where I earned $211 a month in combat. I don’t think any one should talk unless he walks a mile in my combat boots.

    • wasadoc

      I am still trying to figure out just exactly what has Jimmy Carter’s Energy Department has done other than “grow” there yearly budget. Remember, they were supposed to get us off foreign oil.

      • Eddie47d

        Every President has said that since Nixon.

      • Mike

        Carter’s energy dept. is a joke, like so many other gov. agencies. Poor fuel economy can be blamed on the EPA more than anything else. Their increasingly stringent pollution rules drag down mpg’s like a lead weight.Ethanol fuel is less efficient, thus lower fuel economy. Low sulphur diesel along with the particulate filters in the exhaust of the new diesel engines has caused a drop in the fuel economy of diesel engines. The gov. needs to put the breaks on the EPA.

        • john r. sr.

          carter was a 1 term ill excuse for a president and had his pitfalls to face. but, obama has no problem with the help of his cohorts to make up incidentals like obamacare that nobody will benefit from to making electric junkers, to saving face so that he can run for a second term, to screw the american public even more. this incoherent prompter reader needs to be sent out to pasture so he can spread his B.S somewhere else and not in anything that has anything to do with politics.

          • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

            Yep, Little Barry does need to be sent somehwere – Levenworth to await the gallows for treason.

          • Matt Newell

            Amen!!!

        • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

          Mike:

          You are correct about the Peanut Farmer’s Dept. o Energy. It has done exactly the reverse of what Jimmy promised. Or has it?

          People say that ethanol gets lower MPG, but I don’t see it. We ran it in my wife’s mini van when it was priced less than the 87 octane and I saw absolutely no difference in the MPG, and I figure the milage out to the third digit. The thing that does destroy the milage is the “re-formulated” gas that comes out every October thru about March. That gas costs us 15% to 20% in milage. Once again another facsist Fed agency known as the EPA.

          • Kinetic1

            O.H.
            Ethanol does have, as I understand it a lower energy to weight ratio to gasoline, so it should provide slightly lower milage, but that’s not the real issue with Ethanol. The cost of producing corn ethanol, both in direct and indirect costs is just too high. If the government were not subsidizing both the production of the Ethanol and the growing of corn crops no one wold have anything to do with it.

            As for the EPA, I doubt we would have the fuel efficient cars of today without their regulations.

          • Eddie47d

            Kinetic; So true and the American car companies and Congress won’t take higher gas mileage lying down. Those bozos still are clueless and really don’t give a rats patute. Institute higher standards and stop pussy footing around.

          • JeffH

            LMAO! “Institute higher standards”? Like a big government lackey you be!

          • Eddie47d

            Well Jeff you are the symbol of low standards who still endorses Ringers anything goes policy. No wonder this nation spins it’s wheels and goes now where. More proof of the pudding from Jeff.

          • JeffH

            47D, LMAO…a Monkey if ever there was one.

          • Jay

            Eddie, If only you could see what a fool you are you would blush with embarrassment, you tree hugging government lap-dog!!! The EPA is a useless, degenerate, lying, anti-American organization run by thugs! It is nothing more then just another branch of the white house crime syndicate!!! Btw,The only dangerous emissions that I detect are coming out of your mouth. Boob!

          • Patty

            OH-Ethanol reduces the life of you engine. Causes that “knock”. Car companies including gov’t. motors will not honor a car warranty if you use less than 87 octane in your vehicle. Having been very close to a mechanic who says they would never put even 1 tank of ethanol in their vehicle. I will go with someone who sees the damage 1st hand.
            http://fuelfix.com/blog/2011/05/10/ethanol-mess-with-your-engine-you-may-be-on-your-own/

        • Lewis Munn

          The EPA is responsible for raising my electric bill by 100% this year, and promises to raise it 100% each year for the next 4 years, making it 3200% higher in 5 years, AND they are making the electric plants here buy and import high sulfur and high dirt coal from 1000 miles away! More pollution in our air here!

          I fail to see how raising the pollution levels up here plus raising the costs of the electricity 3200% is anything other than vindictive against us for having kept the pollution down over the years!

          And of course, they sit on the large oil fields we have right underneath us, so our oil products have to come from Arab oil, run over by smoking tanker ship, and hauled to our local refineries on smoking trucks from ports 1500 miles away or more. No wonder it is $4/gallon already

          Such economies! Such great ideas for increasing pollution and wasting energy!.

          No wonder it is the EPA, the Environmental Polluting Agency!!

          • Kinetic1

            Lewis,
            Why do people like you so often insinuate that most of our oil imports are from the Middle East? The vast majority of our imports come from Canada and Mexico. Less than 20% of our oil imports come from the Middle East and since imports make up 60% of our oil used, those Arab imports account for less than 12% over all. That’s not to say that we do not import an awful lot of oil and there is, as you say a price to pay in moving that oil, but let’s stop acting as if the Middle East is our only outside source of oil.

    • Dagney

      This article and most of the responses in it are nonsensicle. Americans don’t want fuel efficient cars any more than they want Obama’s prissy “high-speed” trains. America was BUILT on engines and gasoline. And, in our hearts we all know that there is no oil shortage and we aren’t going to run out of energy any time soon. We are AMERICANS, we buy what we WANT. And, that is big engine trucks and SUV’s that can SAFELY take our families and haul our stuff from point A to point B.

      It really would have been good, in this article, to have worked into it the statistics of the deaths caused by Jimmie Carter’s prissy (yes, all socialists are PRISSY) “fuel efficiency” because people were forced to economize and buy a YUGO. Now, it’s the STUPIDcar. You want to tangle in that with a truck? Go right ahead.

      I repeat, this is AMERICA, it was built by BIG engines and lots of oil. Their ain’t no shortages except what is caused by LIES and FEAR. DRILL baby, DRILL!!

      • Bob G

        OOOORRAAAAHHHHHH Dagny!

      • Eddie47d

        Nobody buys Yugos! How about pulling your head out of that posterior of yours and wise up for a change. Back in the 60′s we heard about the Ugly American because we poked our nose into other peoples business in foreign lands. We’ve escalated that status big time. On top of that we’ve seen the oil crises coming for decades and still haven’t pulled our heads out.Our arrogance only supersedes our stupidity. We still buy gas guzzling cars and SUV’s then cry at the pump. Can you say morons?! Oh the shame and embarrassment of driving a fuel efficient vehicle. Even some of these smaller SUVs only get 19 miles a gallon in the city. Big whoop! Thanks John Meyers for a timely article.

        • http://! Angel Wannabe

          eddie, Like I’ve said before, I wanna see you haul a truck load of hay or a pick up truck load of funiture, if ya decide to move?….Honestly are ya saving money if ya have to constantly hire people to haul for you, now use your head?!_-Choose your poison, Electric cars you’ll for pay in your electric bill, Gas fueled car ‘n’ Trucks, you pay at the pump?!!_-It’s gotta come from somewhere__ and it ain’t free!

          • Kinetic1

            Angel,
            “Honestly are ya saving money if ya have to constantly hire people to haul for you..” Well, that depends on your life style, doesn’t it? I drove a Subaru Hatchback back in the 80′s. Great little car, good milage and it never let me down. For 90% of my hauling needs it fit the bill, and I could handle 98% by pulling a small trailer. As the family grew we added a minivan and with that hauling the trailer our need for anything more dropped to almost never.

            I do a lot of woodworking and home restoration, so the minivan is a great hauler. Plywood and sheetrock fit just fine and I don’t have to worry about rain. I’ve even hauled some hay bales from time to time, but I certainly wouldn’t make a habit of it, but then I don’t have a farm. And there is the point. How much hauling do you do? My home is in a dairy community and I can’t imagine those farmers getting by without a good solid pickup, but there are just as many people driving around in trucks with no logical reason to do so. Just like the SUV and 4X4 (not FWD, that’s front wheel drive) owners who never pull anything and never see anything other than pavement, it’s all about image. Well, for some women I know it’s the high seating position that makes them feel safe, but we all know the truth about that. The point is, just like women’s shoes it’s more about looks than practicality.

            So, did I save any money by driving a small car even though I had to occasionally rent a truck or trailer? You bet! And It was easier to park than a truck, easier to wash, more comfortable to drive, quieter and cheeper to shod.

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            Kinectic, I’m glad it worked out for ya. I prefer a pick up or a minivan, I don’t live in the city. Point is, I’ll make the desicion based on my lifestyle. You can make all the electric cars ya want, But no matter how you slice it, no electric semi is gonna haul a trailer or anything else….I’m just sayin…see jibbs comment! :)

          • DaveH

            I’m happy for you, Kinetic, to have made the choices that suited you.
            Now, butt out of other peoples’ choices.

          • DaveH

            Angel,
            Here’s a good analysis of electric cars:
            http://mises.org/daily/4714

          • Kinetic1

            Dave,
            Nice attitude! Note that I said that people should by the car or truck that suits their needs. No, I don’t see the sense in owning a truck if you don’t need one, but I didn’t say you shouldn’t be allowed to. Get off your “I’m independent and I make my own choices” high horse.

          • Kinetic1

            Angel.
            Again, I can see your point. If your situation requires some hauling capacity on a regular basis, then your choices make sense. I just question the folks who insist on owning a truck to drive around suburbia. I’m not asking anyone to prohibit it, but I don’t see the sense.

            One thing I should have mentioned. For a while one of my neighbors had a beat-up little toyota pickup that we used as a neighborhood hauler. He made the original purchase, but we all paid for our own gas and helped out with maintenance as needed. On the down side it wasn’t always available, but when you knew you were going to need to make a dump run or wanted to pick up a load of mulch you could plan ahead. It’s a great use for an old heap.

          • Kinetic1

            Dave,
            Nice article, but totally misleading. First the writer bases his figures on the $9.000 alteration of a Prius, but then refers to “electric” cars. even after the alterations, a Prius is not an electric car. Second, he basis much of the cost on a $33,000 battery needed to get 100 miles per charge, but there are already electric cars that can go over 100 miles without such a battery. Third, as I mentioned in another post, a true electric car saves a great deal on reduced maintenance and that, due to the Prius being a hybrid is not entered into the equation.

            I agree that altering a Prius is a false savings, but the writer of this article was disingenuous at best.

          • AndyZ

            Every energy conversion has a loss converting fuel to motion to drive a generator consumes more energy than the electricity it delivers then you charge an electric cars batteries with it it takes twice the energy or more to charge them than the best batteries can deliver then you have another conversion loss in the electric motor that powers the car. Not to mention that they are always telling us that the power grid is at almost 100% utilization now how will the rolling blackouts work when all the mandated electric cars are plugged in and charging and think of all the extra fossil fuel the power companies will have to burn to fuel those “enviromentallly friendly” Vehicles at least the pollution will be from a stationary source

          • DaveH

            You are misleading, Kinetic. The author is very clear in his statements. You need to learn how to read. The author is critiqueing Mr. Sandalow’s conversion of his Prius to an all-electric car. A person could easily copy his analytic methodology and apply it to any electric car. Of course, each model will have different results, but the main line of thinking will still apply.
            Then there are the hidden costs of subsidization that one would also have to consider (not so easy), because even though the purchaser will pay less, somebody still has to pay.
            The writer of the article was not disingenuous at all. He was very clear in his statements. The people who are being disingenuous are those you support who don’t tell people about all the hidden costs that the taxpayers get stuck with. And they don’t tell people about the next great Liberal panic — what to do with all those used batteries and their poisonous metals.

        • Dagney

          You want to buy a friggin’ 4 cylinder pop can of a car? Go right ahead! If it’s being built, and you like it, buy it! This is America! Don’t you dare tell me I HAVE TO buy one of them, though! I have a RIGHT to buy as big and costly of a car as I want and can afford. You can just go pound sand if you think you have some moral high ground because you buy a pop can car that you can easily die in!

          Let me repeat, THERE IS NO OIL SHORTAGE. There is only lack of drilling and lack of political will to SHUT UP the environmental WHACKOS who are standing in the way of America’s progress and economy. These WHACKOS value their own power more than they value American freedom and livlihood. They need to shut the HELL up and get out of the way.

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            Dagney, HEAR, HEAR!!!!

          • Lewis Munn

            Yup, the EPA makes more environmental mistakes for political purposes than about anybody else.

            One area: In the early and late 1800′s, volcanoes exploded, and we had years without summers…why? Dust blown to a dust layer high up reflecting the sun’s IR back out into space! So, the EPA, while screaming about “Global Warming”, has been taking all the dust it can out of the air, so now the IR from the suns hits the ground, and the “climate” is heated very efficiently.

            Those of use who are older also remember the ’50′s when it was feared the next ice age was coming on…but it turned out to be factory smoke that was reflecting the IR back into space, and when the EPA got rid of that, the climate warmed twice as fast as it had before! Yea for the EPA, making global warming faster and faster, and making our prices higher and higher!

            ‘Cause they have a budget, and an agenda, and constantly need more budget to fulfill and expand their agenda! And more politics to effectively propagandize the Sheeple!!

        • DaveH

          As usual, Eddie can’t make one of his Liberal comments without it being laced liberally with nasty remarks. It’s Eddie’s way or the highway. This, Folks, is what you can expect when you put Liberals into office. They, like Eddie, want to make your choices for you, even though most of them, like Eddie, are severely lacking in knowledge and cognitive skills.

          • Kinetic1

            And that, folks is how the pot calls the kettle black.

          • Eddie47d

            Heck Dave, You’ve mastered the skill of arrogance and yes sir you are way ahead of me.If this is a race to you then I’ll let you win, hands down.

          • Lewis Munn

            Yup, Dave. I have noted the Liberals in general have a much greater knowledge of profanity and vulgarity, and feel it adds to their arguments! Does make them longer and look larger on paper, I will agree.

          • DaveH

            I’m treating Eddie with the same disrespect that he showers on others, Kinetic. If you bring a knife to the fight, I will bring a knife.

        • Eddie47d

          Angel; Very few people haul a truck load of hay so this issue isn’t just about you. Drive whatever it takes to get the job done that is efficient to you. Some construction companies have dump trucks that are 20 times bigger than than most cars . It’s what they need to do business and get their job done. Most folks don’t need a dump truck either.

          • Thamera

            Eddie, Eddie, Eddie, what suburban or metropolitan do you live in that your world is so convex? Almost all of our neighbors have a truck for loading all kinds of things from hay to four wheelers to fertilizer. You can’t drive a city block (or a country mile) without passing several trucks and/or SUV’s. Just because you don’t “see” it doesn’t mean that many, many people don’t require there use on a daily basis. btw: the average family size is 5 people out here…tell me what should they be driving?

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            Thamera. Hell we live in farm country, I’ve even seen large John deere tractos driven and parked at the Grocery store! Things get too bad I drive that or my little Deere! :)

        • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

          Eddie:

          Out energy problem has been caused by the American people allowing the facsist government in DC to completely impeed the developement of our own oil supplies. We have more oil than the ME. We have alos not built any refineries since 1976.

          • Eddie47d

            Then those oil companies should have invested in more refineries back in the 70′s. Now did they? Fewer refineries guarantee them high gas prices and that is how they like it. You know that law of supply and demand. There is a big demand for oil and even a good supply but if it’s not refined it can’t get to market fast enough. Look at all the oil Iran has but no refineries so they have to import gasoline.

          • http://! Angel Wannabe
          • AndyZ

            The Environazis wouldn’t let the oil companies build any since 1976 THANK YOU EPA

          • Eddie47d

            That Republican Henry Kissinger makes a deal with the Middle East over oil and you blame Environmentalists. More wacko thinking from the right. Got anymore enlightened thoughts to share with us.

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            Eddie, he was a rino!__

          • Christin

            Henry Kissinger… a RINO? Maybe in Title Only, but he is a New World Order dude. He has stated that he believes obama is the one to lead it.

            Most of us on this site are Constitutional Conservatives… NOT Republicans and Democrats… not anymore, now that we know that both sides are corrupted by TPTB and Progressivism.

      • Frank

        That’s right baby! Freedom of choice on what to drive and not get buried in a Smart (dumb) car.

        • http://! Angel Wannabe

          Frank, our neighbor has one of those smart cars, the old man and I say the same thing, If they get hit in one of those, they are a goner and if it’s a semi, they’ll disintegrate!__there is no protection what so ever!

          • DaveH

            Here is a famous picture of a smart car misfortunate enough to get hit by a Semi:
            http://www.fatalfailblog.com/uploads/2/9/2/7/2927851/1594479_orig.jpg

            Of course, no passenger car would fare well in such a case, but smart cars are inherently unsafe due to their very small size.

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            Daveh, My point exactly!!!

          • libertytrain

            I remember seeing Smart Cars for the first time 12 years ago in Germany – and the one I saw daily was used as a Pizza Delivery car in Mannheim – saw it for the next few years I visited there – however, driving one of those in a city Downtown area seems more sensible than going up against something on the Autobahn – I didn’t see any then on the Autobahn. Will be interesting for me to pay attention the next time round -

          • Thamera

            I’ve seen that kind of damage in person on a 2 lane highway on our way to Nevada. Needless to say there were no survivors. Very sad.

          • BOOHOO

            I don’t drive my SUV (not the huge ones just a regular SUV) because I love it. I drive it because when I lived in Los Angeles and driving on those CRAZY freeways everyday either you had a good strong car or you were going to get really hurt or killed. The drivers are nuts, they think only of themselves their talking on their cell phones, texting, putting on makeup ,I even once saw a woman driving down the street holding a bowl in one hand and eating with chop sticks in the other. I”m sorry but my kids were young and I needed protecting driving them and my self to and from work (took 1 1/2 hours each way on the 405 freeway) Now 12 years later I drive it because It’s paid for and I have NO MONEY and NO JOB.. I don’t drive much I now live in Arizona and I fill it up once a month. Trust me if I could afford a safe (key word here) fuel-efficient car I would buy one

      • john r. sr.

        drill baby drill… how bout we start on your backside there is enough hot air there and we might strike oil in the process.

        • Dagney

          LOL, what an intelligent rebuttal. Typical Marxist “useful idiot” response.

          • Kinetic1

            Dagney,
            There you go blaming stupidity on ideology again. I’ve seen more that my share of comments like that coming from the right on this site.

          • Lewis Munn

            Liberals in general apparently get a lot of profanity and vulgarity learned in early childhood, so it just comes out naturally. Don’t blame them, blame their parents.

            Vulgarity is used when they cannot think of a refined way to speak. Refined, knowledgable speech can be much more cutting, but they never could, or would, learn it.

          • Dagney

            Kinetic1: Oh, I think you will find the percentage of inarticulate, unintelligent, and just plain nasty ad hominum posts much higher coming from the left than from the right. No one is perfect, it is true, but the left is much less so! :-)

          • Kinetic1

            Dagney,
            I beg to differ, but I can’t imagine a much bigger waste of my time than to tabulate the posts.

      • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

        Amen Dagney!

    • Void1972

      “IT WAS INCREDIBLY OBVIOUS”
      by Sharon Rondeau

      Image released by the White House which Obama claims is his birth certificate
      (May 9, 2011) — The Post & Email was able to reach Mr. James Colby, who recently performed an analysis aired on a Colorado television station of the image released on April 27, 2011 by the White House purported to be a certified copy of Obama’s long-form birth certificate from Hawaii. Mr. Colby stated during that interview that the image contained as many as 50 layers.
      MRS. RONDEAU: How did you determine that there were as many as 50 layers in this image?
      MR. COLBY: It started when you open the birth certificate in your browser, in Adobe Acrobat. It was a friend of mine who noticed that the text on the birth certificate would flash to white in and out. The reason it was doing that was that there were different layers in the document that caused the layers to flash as it rebuilt the preview layer by layer. So those layers would flash over the top and rebuild that image in that way. From there, you can open it in Adobe Illustrator and see those layers first-hand.
      MRS. RONDEAU: If the image had come from a paper document and then been scanned in and put on a computer screen, what would have happened when you opened it?
      MR. COLBY: Almost all scanned images would be a single layer, so zooming in and out, there would have been nothing noticeable. Additionally, if you zoom in using Acrobat with your browser on a lot of the text, you’ll notice that it appears jagged and a single color. That’s not original. A pen doesn’t write in a single color; as you write lighter, the color is lighter; as you press harder, it’s darker than everything else. So writing in pen is not a single solid color, and when it scanned, anti-aliased, which means that the square pixels on the edges fade to make it appear smooth. Most of the text in the document including a large portion of the signatures is just a single blotch of color. The likely explanation is that someone just drew them in using a tool similar to “pencil” in Adobe Photoshop.
      MRS. RONDEAU: Do you think that this came from any kind of a paper document originally?
      MR. COLBY: There’s definitely a component of it that came from a paper document originally and was then edited after the fact. I can’t tell you how much of it was taken from a paper document unless the entire thing was connected. Another aspect to this is that in Illustrator, you can examine what’s called the “Clipboard.” Let’s say if you’re editing a paper document and you add another document and you are cutting fragments of other documents to paste over them to produce a final copy. The Clipboard on a computer is like all those cutouts, if you will, a kind of storage place. The clipboard for this document is still intact in its original form. It reflects the objects that have been “cut” from somewhere else and “pasted” into this document. By the way, all the things in the clipboard are rotated at 90 degrees without any explanation. Basically, there’s no computer-based explanation for that.
      There are things in the clipboard that are notable; for instance, the “type of occupation outside home during pregnancy;” the “Non” in “none.” That’s in the clipboard…both the dates, “20″ and “22,” are on the clipboard. The signature of the state registrar and the April 25th date are both foreign objects.
      There are explanations that people have proposed. Some have proposed OCR, which is Optical Character Recognition, and that’s when scanners are giving computers the ability to read text. But that doesn’t apply here because OCR converts things into text, not images of text. All of the information in this document is stored as an image.
      MRS. RONDEAU: How long have you been involved in work with documents?
      MR. COLBY: I’ve been doing graphic arts since 2004 using Version 5 of Adobe Creative Suite, but I’m also a programmer. I’m a LAMP developer with a specialty in dynamic graphics. I’ve developed quite a few notable online graphics programs myself, from scratch, including a GD image editor, a 3D dynamic graphing generator, a system to develop the entire graphic profile of a site dynamically. I’m a little bit more than a graphic artist; I’m an internet engineer.
      MRS. RONDEAU: What is your work background?
      MR. COLBY: I incorporated my first IT company in 2004 and have been self employed since. I’ve been self-employed since 2004. I started our current business back in 2007, and I got started in the technology field early through an internship when I was about 15 or 16. I have not stopped working since.

      Image which circulated on the internet in October 2009 and again last week following the release of an image from the White House purported to be Obama’s long-form birth certificate
      MRS. RONDEAU: Would you say that analyzing this particular image was difficult? Did you have to look closely to find the 50 layers?
      MR. COLBY: It was incredibly obvious.
      The Post & Email then asked Mr. Colby if he was familiar with the “Blaine document” which had appeared on the internet as early as October 2009 but resurfaced last week following the release from the White House. We mentioned that to the untrained eye, the formatting of the two images appeared similar. Mr. Colby responded that he had not seen the Blaine image, so we sent it to him. We asked him to comment on whether or not he believed that the White House long-form image was assembled from the Blaine image, as some have suggested. Mr. Colby responded:
      “I can’t find a high enough resolution sample to make any actual image based determinations. I will say the parent and attendant signatures have some appearance of being signed from the same hand, with attempt to create variation. Only one background mark seems to coincide between the two documents, while the rest are independent between – so the certificate released by the white house is not based on the “Blaine” document. Information like name, address, etc. obviously correlate but are publicly available so there is no significance.”
      Mr. Colby’s final comments to us were, “One thing about documents is that it is possible to make flawless forgeries, especially with the resources of the Executive office. That’s what brings this into question; there’s no question that they have the ability to make a flawless forgery if they desire. So the question is, ‘Why was this released?’”
      The Post & Email then asked him, “If you had a flawless forgery on the screen in front of you, could you detect that it was forged?” and he said, “No. If the proper resources research was were put into it, it’s would be impossible to detect it without having access to external information like original records from the issuer of the given document.”
      Mr. Colby left some instructions whereby readers can discover for themselves the information he has presented about the White House image release:
      Verify yourself:
      In your browser (acrobat):
      Visit the original certificate at whitehouse.gov. Zoom in rapidly, in and out. The text flashing is your computer revealing the upper layers with a slight delay to process the preview of each.
      In Adobe Illustrator:
      Visit the original certificate at whitehouse.gov. Go to File – “Save Page As” in your respective browser. Save the page somewhere where you may easily access it. Then, either open it by browsing to it, right clicking on it, and selecting “open with”; finally selecting Adobe Illustrator (you might have to browse to find the program), or open Adobe Illustrator, select open, and browse to the file (make sure to select *.* “Any Type” in the bottom dropdown). Once open, you may navigate the individual layers yourself and hide their visibility; additionally, if you go to Windows-Actions and select the “Links” tab, you may view the clipboard associated with the original birth certificate.

      • Kinetic1

        Void,
        What does this have to do with cars or gas milage or oil prices?

        • DaveH

          Oh, and who appointed you to be the Site police?

        • kilrntex

          Kinetic, it has much to do with gas mileage. This illegal alien you call your president has said get used to high energy prices, because they “will skyrocket”. This regime is hellbent on destroying this nation. High gas prices aren’t that big a deal for me where I live, because I drill oil wells for a living and high prices keep us working. What really bothers me is this halfbreed alien giving billions to our enemies to drill in the same areas where he shuts us down. Care about the environment? I don’t think the socialist down south care a damn bit about trashing the GOM or any other offshore habitat. The halfbreed alien prez only cares about his agenda to destroy America and he has plenty of idiots helping him do it. I see many of them on this site.

          • Kinetic1

            Please kilrntex, tell me about the foreign nations the President is paying to drill?

          • JeffH

            September 11, 2010
            Despite President Obama’s moratorium on U.S. deepwater drilling in the Gulf of Mexico, the U.S. Export-Import Bank intends to guarantee $1 billion in loans to PEMEX, the Mexican state oil company, to bolster the company’s oil drilling in the region.

            The bank, which is the official American export credit agency, loaned more than $1 billion to PEMEX in 2009 — when the company was the bank’s largest borrower — in support of its drilling activities.
            ——————————————————————

            The U.S. is going to lend billions of dollars to Brazil’s state-owned oil company, Petrobras, to finance exploration of the huge offshore discovery in Brazil’s Tupi oil field in the Santos Basin near Rio de Janeiro. Brazil’s planning minister confirmed that White House National Security Adviser James Jones met this month with Brazilian officials to talk about the loan.

            The U.S. Export-Import Bank tells us it has issued a “preliminary commitment” letter to Petrobras in the amount of $2 billion and has discussed with Brazil the possibility of increasing that amount.
            —————————————————————-

            Billionaire investor George Soros bought an $811 million stake in Petroleo Brasileiro (Petrobras) in the second quarter, making the Brazilian state-controlled oil company his investment fund’s largest holding.
            —————————————————————

            So….to summarize:

            1. The Export-Import Bank of the United States Government is part of the $1 Billion loan to Mexico to boost their oil drilling operation.

            2. The same bank (Ex-Im Bank) is involved in the underwriting a $2 Billion dollar loan to Brazil for Petrobras Oil.

            3. The Export-Import Bank ex-officio Board Members just SO HAPPEN to be

            U.S. Secretary of Commerce Gary Locke

            AND

            U.S. Trade Representative: Ambassador Ron Kirk /

            4. On the Export-Import Bank, on the Advisory Board just SO HAPPENS to include Debbie Dingell.

            Debbie Dingell is a Democratic strategist and is MARRIED to Democratic Congressman John Dingell of Michigan.
            ———————————————————————-

            We certainly have learned that Mr. Obama is good at rewarding those who put him into office.

            WHY doesn’t someone ask Obama WHY…..GM (Government Motors) is building a plant in Mexico?

            GM to build $500 million plant in Mexico

            Payoffs for the Unions

            Payoff for Soros (Petrobras)

            Yet Obama can’t figure out WHY we are still in a Recession?

            HAD ENOUGH YET AMERICA?
            http://romanticpoet.wordpress.com/2010/09/11/u-s-backs-1b-loan-to-mexico-for-oil-drilling-despite-obama-moratorium-another-foreign-oil-company-what-about-american-oil-rig-workers/

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            Jeffh< Right on!__Read up folks!__Good post Jeff, you get an Atta Boy and a big thumbs up!

          • Kinetic1

            JeffH (and Angel by association)
            I had hoped that you would have come up with something new, but I see you are still hung up on the same misinformation. The U.S. Import/Export bank is not the President’s bank account. Obama did not “give” money to Mexico or Brazil, but as noted in your articles the Ex/Im Bank guaranteed LOANS. These loans are not without ties. In fact, the point of these loan guarantees is to create more business for American companies and, by extension American workers. You might also wish to note that the notorious 2 Billion dollar giveaway that Glen Beck made so famous was negotiated during the previous administration. Oh, and speaking of that, Soros sold 5 million of his stake before the loan was completed, bringing the idea of a “pay off” into question.

            How about that drilling? Well, according to a February article in the Houston Chronicle, Houston’s Noble Energy was the first company to receive final approval to begin drilling again. Petrobras did not get final approval until March, followed by another American company.

            Next on your list,
            “3. The Export-Import Bank ex-officio Board Members just SO HAPPEN to be U.S. Secretary of Commerce Gary Locke AND U.S. Trade Representative: Ambassador Ron Kirk”
            Do you know what ex-officio means? “Ex officio” is a Latin term meaning “by virtue of office or position.” Imagine that! Each administration has officials on the board and now Obama has his. They weren’t there when the Bush administration made their deals, but oh my they are now! He even has board advisors, just like every other administration.

            So what did you prove? The Obama administration has ex-officio board members and board advisors at the U.S. Export/Import Bank just like every other administration. George Soros had a large stake in the Brazilian Oil Company Petrobras. The Bank, under the Bush administration approved a 2 Billion dollar loan to Petrobras. The Bank guaranteed loans to other nations drilling for oil just like the last administration (and others I would guess). The intent of the loans is to secure business for U.S. companies and their employees. And finally the Obama administration began reopening the gulf for drilling by granting their first and third permits to American companies. Now THAT’S a scandal!

            By the by, Soros sold ALL of his holdings in Petrobras in 2010, months before they were permitted to drill.

          • JeffH

            Kinetic1…This administration has proven that it is deathly against U.S. oil drilling (especially after the BP spill), particularly when it comes to deepwater drilling. And yet, they are willing to send money to Brazil to drill even deeper. Whether or not this move helps U.S. jobs, the irony is too great to write it off as merely an employment booster.

            Obama could call the whole thing off. No matter how politically isolated the Ex-Im Bank might be painted, revisit the Wisconsin/India case for a quick foray into Obama’s influence over the bank’s decision to approve the loan:

            “The reversal came just in time for a visit by President Barack Obama Wednesday to Wisconsin, the home base of Bucyrus International Inc. [Wisconsin company], which hopes to sell the mining equipment to Reliance [Indian company] with the help of loan guarantees.”

            But instead of Obama preventing the Petrobras deal from going through, the Ex-Im bank raised the value of the preliminary loan from $2 billion to $10 billion

            The irony only becomes sinister when we consider that this loan is meant to boost the capabilities of a company that, until just recently, had been George Soros’s greatest asset for two years. It is now his second largest asset.

            (a) George Soros’s largest holding at the time of the initial loan and currently is invested in Petrobras;

            b) $10bil from the U.S. federal government are on the table to help Petrobras explore potentially lucrative oil mines;

            (c) Petrobras has been salivating for Gulf drilling rigs since the spill in April, so much so that it is looking for more financing to expand its drilling operations;

            (d) The U.S. government’s Gulf oil moratorium has effectively given the drilling rigs an incentive to go elsewhere (at the time of this writing, two rigs have already migrated to Egypt and the Congo). Drilling rigs that leave are not expected to return for years, leaving the Gulf with less rigs and potentially older and more dangerous models;

            (e) Tens of thousands of jobs are currently in limbo in the Gulf oil industry, as are tens of millions of barrels of oil. The fishing industry in the Gulf is stalled, and the tourism industry has taken a hit.
            http://tripplecheck.wordpress.com/2010/07/31/debunking-snopes-the-soros-petrobras-obama-gulf-moratorium-conspiracy/

          • JeffH

            FYI – According to an Aug. 14, 2009 filing with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission. Soros’s fund sold 22 million U.S.-listed common shares of Petrobras and bought 5.8 million shares of the company’s(Petrobras) U.S.-traded preferred shares, according to the filing.

          • DaveH

            Kinetic,
            I thought you were a little smarter than the average Liberal. For once, I have been wrong.
            Misinformation? The Import Export Bank is chartered as a Government Corporation and is an agency in the Executive Branch. Who is the head of the Executive Branch? Duh, would it be Obama? But, even if it wasn’t, what part of Obama’s ordering a drilling moratorium do you not understand? If he could and would shut down all the deep-water drilling, he certainly could have put the kibosh on the Import Export Bank’s funding to Brazil, yet he didn’t. If deep water drilling is bad for the environment, why would that man turn a blind eye to the funding of Brazil’s similar efforts?

            And News Flash, a Liberal (Kinetic) is lying. Wow, how unusual!
            http://www.exim.gov/brazil/petrobasfacts.cfm

            Who was President in April 2009? Only one guess allowed.
            From the article: “In April 2009, Ex-Im Bank formally offered to consider up to $2 billion in financing to secure the purchase of U.S. goods and services by Petroleo Brasileiro S.A. (Petrobras), Brazil’s national oil company. Ex-Im Bank told Petrobras it would consider increasing its offer above $2 billion if requested. Potentially, Petrobras $2 billion of purchases financed by Ex-Im Bank will help create and maintain over 16,000 American jobs.”

          • DaveH

            So, a normal person might ask “if the Import-Export Bank considers that their loan would employ American people, wouldn’t it be easier for Obama to just lift the moratorium and put those oil rig workers back to work?”. Not so easy. You see those oil rig workers aren’t Unionized.

          • Kinetic1

            DaveH,
            You see, this is what I despise about Conservatives like you. You call me a lier because I said that the decision was made under the Bush administration, and you cite the date in the article as proof, but you conveniently fail to print their detailed explanation. If I may:

            “It is notable that the Bank’s bipartisan Board of Directors unanimously approved the preliminary commitment to Petrobras on April 14, 2009, before any Obama appointees joined the Bank. In fact, at the time the Bank’s Board consisted of three Republicans and two Democrats, all of whom were appointed by President George W. Bush”

            So while Bush was no longer President, the board was still from the Bush administration. Just as the 2009 budget was set during the Bush administration but partially carried out during Obama’s first year, the request for this loan was brought up during the Bush administration and voted on by the same Bush appointed board during the first quarter of the Obama administration. Still, just as the right want’s to blame Obama for the results of the 2009 budget, they also accuse Obama of controlling a loan that began during the Bush administration and decided upon by Bush appointees and say it’s purpose was to help George Soros. Just how did he persuade the Ex/Im bank to consider this loan before he was even chosen as a candidate? I may have missed the final date, but not everything changes the day the President is sworn in.

        • Lewis Munn

          It is related indirectly, since Obama is wild about “environmental” issues, and seems determined to get his way with us by artificially raising prices; while dropping incomes in comparison. My SS payment has been stuck for 3 years, while gas has almost doubled!

          His policies drive American incomes down, and prices up, catching many of us squarely in the middle.

          I thought that the “birther” issues were not applicable, but om second thought, I think it is, if true. Much bad stuff could be rescinded if he is not legal!

          On the side, whatever happened to that Kenyan/British Birth Certificate that came on line, showing a footprint and all, and then abruptly totally disappeared?

          It would, if true, explain how he got to Pakistan when US citizens were not permitted to fly in, would it not?

          His secrecy is itself suspicious.

          I have nothing to hide, so my paperwork is readily available. And there are still people who knew me (and pictures) from when I was young. So I have to wonder if he is a plant to ruin our economy by regulations and by a pre-Hitler Germany-type inflation.

      • DaveH

        Did we expect anything other? Thanks, Void.

      • DaveH
    • Aix Sponsa

      I had one of those tiny 80 Civics that got a whopping 28 mpg on a highway trip. It was a horribly dangerous car. I dumped it in a few months for a new Accord that got= 28 on a trip. Later I had a 98 Lincoln Mark 8 with the 270 hp DOHC engine that regularly got 28.3 mpg at 73 mph across the same I55. Now I drive a 2000 Lincoln TownCar that gets 27.5+ at 73 mph on that same trip, and got 29 across I90. The Lincolns are somewhat bigger than the Civic, and safer, more comfortable. New cars make 300 hp and get a real 30+ mpg. I see women and children herding SUVs down the road with their phones stuck to their heads, driving erratically in their “own world”. Picture your 40 mpg “Smart Car” or similar impaled by a Ford Excursion. Not me, I’ve already been hit head on in my big car by a large pickup loaded with drunk teens. I will stick to my gas guzzling Lincolns as I remember being in pain for 12 years. My 2000 was hit in the side by a semitruck driven by a person who was asleep. No thanks, I’ll stick with an adult sized vehicle.

      • Aix Sponsa

        This is on pure gasoline. My experience has shown that 10% ethanol blend drops mileage by 6% across the board, on several different vehicles tested. A friend’s new GM E85 multi-fuel vehicle loses 36% mileage from pure gas to E85. Save 50 cents per gallon, lose 1/3 of your mileage….. right. Try water/hydrogen injection, it works.

      • Kinetic1

        Aix,
        Let’s take a look at this. in 1973 a 5920 lb. Lincoln Continental was Powered by a 460 cu in engine that produced 219 horsepower and got about 16 mpg. In 1982 the Continental ran a 301 with just 131 horsepower and still just 16 mpg. By 2001 the Conti was down to a svelte 3867 lb. ran a smaller 280 cu in engine, but it was now producing 275 bhp and pulling 23 hwy mpg! These days the Lincoln MKZ is running a little 215 (3.5 liter) that produces 263 bhp and is rated at 27 hwy mpg. It’s a little smaller than your Town Car (you lose about 3 inches in the back seat) but it’s a lot more fun to drive.

        In other words, even the “big” cars are engineered to be lighter than what we drove 40 years ago, but they have also made huge leaps in safety. Along the way they have also learned a lot about how to get more out of an engine. This didn’t happen just because the car companies thought it was a good idea. No, the government pushed and the auto makers went kicking and screaming all the way, complaining that they couldn’t possibly build a safe car that got good gas milage. So please, feel free to drive a bigger “safer” car. In fact, you might even want to consider a Lincoln MKZ hybrid with an EPA-estimated 41 city/36 highway. Spending the summer Cruzin’ down I55 on air conditioned seats while passing one gas station after another doesn’t sound to bad, does it?

        • jibbs

          BHP is taken direct from the crank, before the trans.

  • Doc Sarvis

    Oil is a dying mode of energy. We need to wise up and move to alternatives. And the market/industry, as a whole, is stuck-not investing in our country’s future.

    • Pete

      Their were many alternatives. The US government killed them off when they bailed out GM.

      Personally, I wanted to buy a TATA Nano car for under 3 grand ! It’s a very well built low cost car for getting around, made in India. If Obama hadn’t bailed out the bankrupt domestic auto industry , the Indians and Chinese car manufacturers would have filled the vacum ! I sure would like to buy a new car ! But i’m not going into debt for a crappy car from rip em off GM ….

      I’m driving a 1994 Geo Prizm my brother gave me about a decade ago. I fill her up once every 3 weeks. I almost cried last night when it cost 40 bucks and some change fill up my gas tank !

      If you own a house, and have a garage, you should build your own electric car. You can convert a small used car to electric in your spare time ! Put up some solar cells to charge the batteries ….

      Let’s face it – Obama will probably be re-elected – so no cheap energy for anybody ! Might as well get our hand dirty and start converting cars to electric….

      • vagabond

        Pete how many cars have you converted to electricity? how much does it cost to convert one?

        • http://aol Bill

          Building an electric car is simple. Buy a small fiberglas sports car body from an aftermarket company like the old Devin body that I used. Weld up a simple box frame, and used golf cart motor and electronics. With enough lightening, larger wheels, you can get about 40 MPH and 25 mile range. I used a “Harbor Frieght” solar panel glassed in where the trunk is, and got a 45 watt charge for a few extra miles when not plugged in at home.

        • John Sullivan

          I converted a 1995 Geo Tracker to an electric. The cost was about $7000.
          It uses 12 lead acid deep cycle marine batteries to get 144 volts. I bought the parts form EV America (http://www.evamerica.com/). All the conversion parts were made in the US although the donor car was not (but it was free to me). The conversion vehicle of choice is a Chevy S10 pickup with the Colorado’s coming in second. I plug it in for pennies a day and it get’s me the five miles to and from work and the shopping center with no problem. It does take some handyman skills to do a conversion and I had a shop do the welding I needed.

        • Pete

          Vagabond,

          Seems like a good idea, but I haven’t converted any to electric .. yet. I reckon it’s going to be a necessity because of high gas prices.

          Now this article has me thinking. I figure I’m going to have to get myself a house with a garage and a arc welder from Wal Mart … and get going. Put up some solar panels ….

          I went to a foreclosure auction and the house smelled like dog pee ! Then the bank out bid everyone and bought the house ! Darn Federal government ! Why did they bail out them banks ??? It just causes prices to go up on foreclosures. Just like on gas ! The government bails out gas guzzling Detroit and then doesn’t let anybody drill …..

      • DavidL

        Pete:
        I’m in the market for a new car, and I recently drove a couple of GM cars. I can assure you that they are not crappy as you say.They are very nice.

        I had a couple of friends in the 70′s who owned electric cars. They just plugged them in at home. They loved them. They paid nothing for gasoline.

        • http://! Angel Wannabe

          Davel, well ya either ya pay at the pump or in your electric bill.

          • Bob G

            I like you kid.

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            Bob G, LOL!

          • Christin

            I love the title… “Filling Up on Stupid”… thanks John Meyers. Good article.

            I say ‘Drill baby Drill’ the natural God given resources we have right here in America and CUT OFF O.P.E.C. (redistribution of wealth), now!

          • jibbs

            and you need fossil fuel to supply the electric..and some of the solar panel parts are made from petrolium.

          • Kinetic1

            Angel,
            “…well ya either ya pay at the pump or in your electric bill.” Yes, but the cost of electricity is much less and you save a fortune in maintenance with an electric. no oil, no coolant, no exhaust system, and the list goes on. It’s one of the reasons that the auto manufacturers prefer hybrids. They make a fortune on maintaining their cars and much of that would go right out the window with electrics.

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            Kinectic, Yeah the cost of electric RIGHT NOW would be more efficient for electric cars, But you just wait til’ ya get several humdred thousand cars hooked up, and see how much we’ll all be paying?!!

        • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

          Pete:
          I’m in the market for a new car, and I recently drove a couple of GM cars. I can assure you that they are not crappy as you say.They are very nice.

          I had a couple of friends in the 70′s who owned electric cars. They just plugged them in at home. They loved them. They paid nothing for gasoline.

          David,

          Aren’t those cars kind of expensive? Most people can’t afford them.

        • Pete

          My Geo Prizm almost has 200,000 miles on it. But it’s a Toyota clone. Original engine, still working !

      • AttilaTheHun

        It’s all well and good to say we should use electric cars. However, the first law of thermodynamics says that you don’t get something for nothing. The energy used to run an electric car has to come from somewhere. That somewhere is the electric power grid, which is primarily fed by coal plants.

        Now if we can get the green thugs to let us build more coal plants I might be interested in talking about electric cars. Otherwise, it’s a non-starter.

        As an unrelated thought, I believe that one of the most serious threats to our national security is from Iran (North Korea, Libya,…) launching a small nuke into the upper atmosphere from a ship and causing an electromagnetic pulse (EMP). An EMP occurring off the eastern seaboard will very likely knock out the power grid for the entire eastern half of the country and kill significant portion of anything electrical. I’d hate to have my car dependent upon the same utilities.

        • http://aol Bill

          WRONG! You have hundreds of square feet of roof on your garage that could charge your car as fast as plugging it in. A two car roof gives enough area to give 3,000 watts of power free, after installation of course.

          • Bob G

            We get maybe 30 cloudless days a year here where I’m at Billy boy.

          • jibbs

            Nothing is free, what about maint. and the cost of those panels are $$$$

          • Kinetic1

            You’d be surprised how well modern solar panels can work on a cloudy day.

        • Steelhead

          You are actually referring to the second law of thermodynamics, which is concerned with entropy. One easy way to remember the laws of thermodynamics is the way we learned it in engineering school. First law is you get what you pay for. Second law is there’s no free lunch.

          • AttilaTheHun

            I suppose you are right in that regard. I was thinking more in terms of the energy having to come from somewhere and the first law is the energy balance.

            As for Bill’s 3 KW, one gallon of gas is worth about 114,000 BTUs and a KW-H of electricity is worth about 3413 BTUs, so a gallon of gas is equivalent to ~33 KW-H of electricity. Bill’s 3 KW of sunlight (it’s rained for over a month here in the midwest) for say, ten hours a day are equivalent to 3KW * 10 hours / 33 KW-H/gal = 0.9 gal of gas. Assuming that you actually get 40 MPG, that means that you can drive 36 miles on one “fillup”. That’s also assuming that you’ll do it at NIGHT, because you have to have your car charging during the day, unless you come up with another energy storage medium. No thanks.

          • Pete

            Attila,

            I figger that the “suburban home” of the future will be built on 5 acre lots, instead of these 1/2 acre to 1/4 acre lots they use today. Most people will probably have a small solar farm ( a solar “garden” ?) on their property.

            Your gonna need two of them battery packs, maybe just two electric cars. One is being charged and one is being used. One thing that is holding all this back is zoning laws and high taxes on land ! Fix that and your in business !

        • Pete

          Just bury a real long cable into the ground … that will generate some electricity ! I guess it comes down to how much land you have ….

        • Kinetic1

          Attila,
          If you have a modern car it won’t matter. Your car’s computer system will be affected and you’ll be just as bad off as if your car were electric.

        • pete

          I was wondering if an “EMP” can damage/destroy a solar panel ??

      • Christin

        Pete,

        Electric car… Really is better than gasoline? And what will happen to all the people who own, have converted their car, and must drive this ‘electric car’ to work, school, errands and vacations when BHO’s plan “will cause the price to necessarily SKY ROCKET?”

        • Pete

          Christin,

          I’m not worried about other people to much, I’m just worried about myself. Other people can do what they want .

          I sure would love to get one of them TATA Nanos ! For under 3 grand a car, I could buy two and convert one to electric !! Put it all on a “credit card” ……. Darn Detroit ! Obama should have just let them DIE (go bankrupt)…

          Now I got to spend over 10 grand for a new car !!!! I became a tight wad a few months ago … makes me want to cry !!!!

          • Christin

            Pete,

            I hear ya.

            What’s a ‘TATA Nanos’?

            I think Americans should care about other Americans, especially Conservatives who want America to suceed with Freedom and Prosperity… just a though, Pete.

          • Pete

            Christin,

            It’s a golf cart sized, low cost, new car I can afford … here’s the wiki link

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tata_Nano

        • Cawmun Cents

          Ever notice the POTUS is in bed with Genital Electric?!I wonder why…hmmmmm.

          • JeffH

            OOPS!

      • Omawazzi

        You said:
        Obama will probably be re-elected – so no cheap energy for anybody ! Might as well get our hand dirty and start converting cars to electric….

        Do you think that if the Republican Party (Gas & Oil Party) comes into control in 2012 they will turn to electric cheaper made cars???
        You can’t be serious and if you are serious, you gotta be dreaming.

        • Pete

          Omawazzi,

          I’m just trying to “adapt” to the “Energy Crisis”. I ‘m gonna have to use what is available.

      • Aix Sponsa

        A gasoline/ water (hydrogen) hybrid is the best way. It’s simple, easy, and done correctly, it works. I know that mileage increases of 50% are real.
        Laugh and ridicule if you want. I couldn’t care less about your financial plight.

        • DaveH

          If we could get the Government out of our marketplace, people would invest in viable technologies, and the consumers would buy the ones that made the most sense. Some that sounded good on paper would fall by the wayside and others would succeed. That is the most efficient way to improve our society.
          As it stands now, Government is wasting a lot of our money on unproven pipe-dreams that sound good to voters, but in reality don’t deliver. If a technology is indeed viable, the marketplace will accept it and the companies that produce it will profit. Government only steps in (with taxpayer money) when the people with good sense won’t invest their own money in the effort.

        • Christin

          Aix Sponsa,
          Is that relly true… water and gasoline?

          I’d like to see some web sites discussing that.

          And Dave H. so true, again…
          Get gov out of the way and we could do what we do best with the Free-market… the tried and true (sell and make profits) or fail (and go away) or try again to better your idea.

          America Inginuity! (stifled with micro-managing BIG gov)

        • Pete

          Yo dude, whatever works !!!

          Just get a still going then get your car all liquered up ! That will fix it ..

    • http://! Angel Wannabe

      Brilliant Doc, then ya better get your azz in gear and figure out a way to convert, weedwackers, lawn mowers, tractors, chain saws, home heating oil, wood chippers, tractor-trailers, farm equipment, dump trucks, delivery vehicles, four wheelers, motorcycles, logging equipment, ocean liners, barges, sea-dos, ski-dos, boat motors, ANY & ALL plastics,fans, the list is endless …….You don’t quit gas/oil consumption, unless you have a full arsenal that is the equivalent or better, than what is available now__AND THERE ISN’T ANYTHING ANYWHERE!
      Just for shytes and giggles, I can see a Tractor-trailer pulling tandem, running on wind, solar or electric power, that’s just laughable!_lol

      • Doc Sarvis

        An unAmerican approach if ever I heard one. You just want to give up and say it can’t be done. Talk about “brilliant”. You propose to leave your head in the sand-do nothing as the world burns through our oil at an ever increasing rate.

        I know that America can lick this challenge of moving beyond oil as our primary energy source AND using all energy we do have much more efficiently. We can lead the world if we choose to. THAT is a realistic American perspective. I didn’t say it would be easy but true Americans would be up to the challenge.

        • http://! Angel Wannabe

          Doc, Un American Doc really?__Who are you trying to kid here?__The only reason you gave that answer is you have nothing else to counter it with!__

          There is nothing really to discuss, all this so-called search for alternative energy is already in place and have been for some time. The GUV is using our corn supply to produce ethanol, hence corn prices on the rise…Then ya have Wind and Solar Power, Bio Fuels and on and on__ C’mon Bud, Get a Grip. I don’t care what ingenious scheme the GUV comes up with, it going to take a hell of a lot more time to convert everything we use on a daily basis, that’s made with oil, into something that’s going to work as well or better!_Right now, there is nothing!!!

          • wasadoc

            The answer is actually right under our nose, but those in DC don’t want us to do it. We are sitting on “proven oil reserves”. We need to drill and build refineries. Then after that is setup, we need to start looking at “VIABLE” alternatives. Spain and a few other foreign countries have proven that the wind stuff doesn’t work. It costs much more than it saves. Thirteen yrs ago, Pres Clinton said that if we started drilling and building, it would take ten yrs for it to be operational. Following that thinking, we would have been operational 3 yrs ago. A month ago, obama made almost word for word the same speech. They do not want us to drill. The environmentalists are the ones who are holding this country back, yet they have no problem using oil, themselves. It doesn’t take much of a degree to figure out that if we started drilling and building today, the Arabs would drop their prices, hoping we would quit.

          • kodster5

            EXACTLY, wasadoc! And surprisingly, look at what the so-called environmentalists drive? LOL! Do you think they drive economical cars? Nope! They have their Prius-hybrids that they show off, but look what they have in their garages… that gas-guzzling SUV that they refuse to give up… and don’t need, because they live in an urban area. Get them out here in the rural area, where the nearest decent-sized grocery story is over an hour away, and those big SUVs and trucks are the ones used, because they can haul big loads. Most of the folks out here in rural America only drive into areas where they stock up for up to a month at a time, so they don’t drive those vehicles and waste fuel.

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            Doc, why don’t realize all of this “Green” and “Clean” energy is nothing more than a Governmental money making scheme, it’s so poorly managed, that the scientist the GUV paid to lie about the Global Warming couldn’t even do that right, and got caught lying. Why do you think this gas hike is anything different??_-As I said above there was a massive oil spill in the Gulf, the oil giants paid alot out in damages, don’t ya think this is a re-coup of funds???

          • Eddie47d

            How do you know someone is an environmentalist strictly on the car they drive? Most environmentalists I know do drive fuel efficient cars and some do own SUVs. They also ski and do alot of camping which requires plenty of room for gear. Not much different for guys in the construction trade who need larger trucks for their loads. I do see plenty of SUVs without a scratch on them and always clean as a whistle. Status does seem to play a role in what a person drives not fuel efficiency. Those who do drive a Prius seem to get it. 55,000 of those babies were bought in 2010 irregardless of those minor accelerator problems. My Dodge still gets 22/27 mpg and I’m looking for another vehicle that get’s at least 30-32. I know this country can do even better than that so I keep searching.

          • Pete

            Angel Wannabe,

            You make some good points, but Doc Sarvis point is we got to think “outside the box” ….

            You got these ultra technological elites flying around in them UFO/Saucers. Us frank n beans little guys have just get going and “innovate” …..

            We still should drill, drill, drill for more oil and mine all that coal !

            The best policy is to FREEDOM from government interference – so a individual can chose his own energy technology, be it oil, coal, solar or “Mr. Fusion” like in the movie “Back to the Future” !!!

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            wasadoc, well said, the earth continually reproduces it’s own oil, the only challenge is, finding it.

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            Pete, I get it_ok!__I could care less if they build electric cars or matchstix, my point is, ya don’t start pulling off on oil, until there is substantial evidence that there is another form of energy, that is just as good or better. THERE IS NOTHING BETTER THAN OIL! It affects every aspect of our daily life, from gas to hand lotion!

            new forms of energies are being worked on continually, I say let them do it, but don’t FORCE US to comply through regulation or making it mandatory, like they did Obamacare.__If ya let these do-gooders keep taking away more and more of our freedoms we’ll have nothing.YA GOTTA WISE UP!

            When the GUV says’ “That something is good for us, you can bet your azz, its only good for THEM!

        • Bob G

          Angel, you have your head screwed on right.
          Doc, your’s is up your ass.

          • Al Sieber

            Good one Bob G, I’ve been telling Doc that for a long time. I think he’s a doctor of Proctology.

        • CJ

          This is why the debate gets stuck. Pie-in-the-sky idealists who’s only thought is “I hate oil” think they can wish us into spending Billions to replace something that currently costs Millions. People think short-sitedly with their pocket book and won’t pay $100 grand to replace a car costing them $2000 extra a year, but will complain all the way, hoping someone else will foot the bill. I doubt women will give up their pantyhose and farmers can’t force land to produce more than it’s capable of without the fertilizers from oil. It’s not as simple as the simple minded would hope. All the money spent by government comes from OUR pockets. ALL OF IT! They take it by tax or inflation. So, how much of the bill are you willing to cover? And don’t give me the “save the environment” argument. You give up your polluting gas car for an electric one that polluts through the coal burning electric plant. Get real.

          • Marty S.

            Thats right CJ they are going to jump all over the dollars to get to the quarters as far as alternative energy is concerned. Soros is tied into that scam too. If the price of gasoline keeps climbing people will just drive less and eventually vote Oilbummer out of office when the time comes. I dont think there are a lot of happy voting age and above drivers out there despite his recent spike in approval ratings. He wants the highest gas prices possible to basically shut down the petroleum industry and get people to buy that Chevy Volt or use some pathetic fast train system. Its all about control of the people not saving the planet. What a waste of time.

          • DaveH

            Exactly, Marty and CJ. Here is strong evidence for that:
            http://mises.org/daily/5217/Happy-Mother-Earth-Day-Citizen

        • kodster5

          Doc, you don’t get it… you didn’t read Angel’s comment… did you see ALL the things listed? You just don’t realize just how much of our lives revolve around petroleum products, NOT JUST GASOLINE! We will never wean ourselves off oil 100%. Even the microwave sitting in your kitchen uses products made out of petroleum.

          John’s article has the answer in it, but Obama (and his puppet handlers) won’t let us use it! We have more than enough domestic oil right here in the US, if we’re allowed to get to it, to get us away from foreign oil (just like Jimmy Carter’s administration promised us, but never followed through, and I graduated from high school during that administration, my father lost his job in that economy downturn, etc., so I remember it well). I live in a state that straddles the largest oil field in the US, and they’re saying it will last for the next 20-30 years just to get it out, let alone use it all. They’ve also discovered another, even larger, oil field on the eastern side of the Rockies! But the administration won’t let us extract it, and the environmentalists won’t give in. THEY are the ones strangling us! (Oh, and btw, I don’t want ANYONE here start blaming the Israelis for our oil shortages! I don’t want to hear anyone blaming them for any of our woes… now or in the future… because they import their oil from outside, too… our problems are self-inflicted!)

          • Eddie47d

            “our problems are self inflicted”! Well said, I have never heard of anyone say we will ever be free of oil. Not on the left or the right! That is a weak argument and made up talking point. The issue is being wise and efficient in our energy use which is a point everyone can agree on.

          • ValDM

            Kod,
            Glad you brouht up this issue about “oil independence”. Let’s see what oil is in these days : plastics , hand/body lotion , hand/body soaps , facial moisturizers , most cosmetic foundations , clothing (polyester) , laundry detergent , dryer sheets , Downy (or whichever softener you use) , all those “man-made” materials used in shoes/sandals , asphalt , tar , and let’s not forget the petroleum based pestcides/herbicides. These are just a handful that I have here in my own house that I can think of off the top of my head. I’m sure there are many more. Oil independence? Completely laughable.

        • jibbs

          Ok smart guy, you lead the way…maybe eddie47, joviazz, or dizzio can help you. Most cars have the same or more horse power that my semi truck has. You must be a rocket scientist. When my truck is loaded, it can weigh up to 80,000ibs. ooohhh boy!! I see a small hill up ahead!! Now what do I do smart guy? My rig has a 431hp cat engine, governed at 68mph and rpm peaks at 1600rpm in tenth gear. With that low rpm, I don’t really achieve 431hp. Is that why I go slower and down shift on small to medium hills? WTF do I do in the mountains smart guy?? ELECTRIC my a$$!! To achive full horse power, you need to eliminate the transmission and governer, which would bring you to full 431 Break Horse Power, and that still will not be enough in Mountain States.
          What do you like best about my diesel engine, the smell or the noise?? hehehe, lmao…electric my azz

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            Jibbs!_-I was waiting for a semi truck driver to show up and chime in, well said!

          • Eddie47d

            Who says you can’t have your 431 hp cat engine? Why are you saying something when no one has even suggested that you would loose the power you need for work.

          • kodster5

            eddie47d, you have obviously NEVER driven a semi-truck! You try getting the power to climb even a moderate climb with a diesel engine with less than 500hp, fully loaded with 80,000 lbs of truck, trailer, and freight. You need a minimum of 525hp to make those hills. You ever wonder why those rigs are creeping up those hills, with their flashers on, because they’re going less than 45 mph, and everyone is flying past them? You think they wanna be there, hoping their engines don’t stall out, as they watch the temperature gauge creep up well past 210 degrees? Guess what? I have! So, until you’ve been behind the wheel of a 10-gear rig, with a governor on it that won’t let you get past 62 mph (as a lot of the larger trucking companies have put on their company vehicles, so they can get a tax break and cost-savings, yet choke their drivers because the drivers can’t get to their delivery appointment on time!), shut the heck up! You don’t know crap!

          • Eddie47d

            No I haven’t and thanks for informing me of what those drivers have to deal with.

        • DaveH

          What is “Unamerican”, Doc, is you Liberals who want to turn our once Free society into a third world country complete with know-nothing dictators who could care less how their citizens fare. It is you Liberals who want us to give up and just do everything your way. And your way is nonsensical and proven as a failure in country after country.
          If indeed oil will run out some day, then what difference does it make if it’s 5 years from now or 50 years from now? People will still suffer eventually. Rather than impoverish ourselves now at the hands of Liberals, we should Free up our Marketplaces, and let people make voluntary contracts and transactions with their fellow men (and women). If and when the oil started running out, the prices would naturally go higher at which point some of the alternative energy schemes would make economical sense. Then people could make a peaceful transition to those alternative energies. But you Liberals want to cram them down our throats now, when they aren’t yet economically viable. Impoverishing our nation with your uneconomical solutions is certainly not the course of “wise” people.
          You are not a True American, Doc. Don’t pretend.

          • Thamera

            Interesting isn’t it that Doc and others (Jovi has asserted that I am not only “unamerican” but could not possibly be a “patriot” LMAO) are the first to make those audacious claims of the very people fighting to maintain our freedoms? I’m trying to decide if they are completely brain washed, lacking education or can’t think of anything better to say, or all of the above?!!

          • DaveH

            They may damn well know better, Thamera, and are in the Political Class, so are purposely misleading the ignorant left-leaning readers.

      • vagabond

        well said Angel. I ignor doc sarvis. he’s just another liberal with typical liberal thinking,

      • Oldpoop

        “Nothing in the world is more dangerous than a sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.” MLK

        • Doc Sarvis

          Thank you for confirming my stand with the borrowed quote.

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            Lol, Doc, if you consider that a win, you really are desperate!

          • Mitchell Ennis

            “There is an almost universal quest for easy answers and half-baked solutions. Nothing pains some people more than having to think.” Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

          • Eddie47d

            Well said Ennis. We need to think outside oil to achieve energy efficiency. Leave oil to the products that can only operate on oil. Homes can be converted to gas or solar.Coastal power can come from wave generators and wind power can be fuel prairie towns.Even coal will be used for generations to come until other sources will come on line. If you enjoy driving your car then encourage new technology so we can continue to do so.

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            EDDIE, First of all, I’ll decide what I’ll drive and what’s fuel efficient for me. Secondly, I’ll heat my home on what I decide, not some damn bureaucrat who thinks they know better than me! When these damn do-gooders, start paying my bills they can have some say, until then, they can shut the hell up and mind they’re own business!

          • Eddie47d

            Angel, go away with your arrogant closed mind. Once again everything is not about you or your hatred for government. This issue is bigger than that. Still like me? Open up and smell a better future for life is constantly changing.

          • JeffH

            Angel Wannabe, don’t let that mindless troll get to ya. Keep hammerin away, yur doin great!

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            Eddie, for your freakin information Einstein, I did go away and cut grass for awhile but Now I’m back, and I’ll do and say just whatever the hell it is I please! Why don’t you take a LONG WALK OFF A SHORT PIER, your the INFIDEL Liberal HERE NOT ME!

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            Jeffh, Thanks! ;)

          • Eddie47d

            Speaking of trolls and Jeff pops up with nothing useful to say about anything or our energy needs. He’s like a barking dog and always annoying.

          • Eddie47d

            Angel did you sniff a little too much methane gas while cutting grass.What a foggy attitude for a “sunny” Republican.Now if you and Jeff don’t settle down I’ll have to take you both in for your yearly distemper shot. LOL

          • JeffH

            47D’s is the perfect example of why “you can’t fix stupid”!

          • JeffH

            47D makes another imbicillic comment.

            “Now if you and Jeff don’t settle down I’ll have to take you both in for your yearly distemper shot.”

            Like they say, “you can’t fix stupid’!

          • Eddie47d

            Anything new Jeff or you just love repeating yourself.Talk about Stupid!

          • JeffH

            47D’s a MONKEY! …nanner nanner nanner…

      • Kinetic1

        Angel,
        It’s not an all or nothing jump in with both feet game. My string trimmer is propane powered ad my lawn mower is electric. I have a small lawn, so it’s more than enough and again, almost no maintenance. Everyone was happy with gas lights until the electric bulb was invented. Viable alternatives are out there, it’s just going to take the right vision.

        • http://! Angel Wannabe

          and Kinectic, I make my own tallow candles and use kerosene lamps alot, it suits me just fine,my home decor is old world anyway. I do whatever it takes, to save money!

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            kinectic, your not understanding wherE I’m coming from, I don’t give a Rats azz if the GUV or whoever wants to makes elEctric cars or electric pipe cleaners FOR THAT FACT, as long as they don’t demand that I have to buy it. Which is the same problem we are having with Obamacare, if they let Obamacare stand, they, the Guv will be able to force us to do ANYTHING!!_-we will NEVER BE OIL FREE!

          • kodster5

            Angel, you use kerosene lamps & tallow candles? Then you ought to check out hemp lamp oil! It’s the cleanest, brightest, most efficient lamp oil on the market, and the stupid government outlawed it in 1939! We’re trying to bring it back, and it would make a helluva lot more sense, because it comes from a renewable plant source. Even paper made from hemp would be more practical than cutting down trees that take YEARS to grow, to produce paper, clothing, all kinds of things… but the government has outlawed hemp production. The individual states are wanting to grow it, because it’s a cash crop that is good for the economy (our founding fathers required Americans to grow it!), but the federal government says no, because it looks too much like marijuana! Bah! As JeffH says… stupid is as stupid does.

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            Kodster5, Yepper candles and Kerosene lamps, especially in the winter months. We have electric, but why turn a light on, when ya can light a candle or a lamp and let it lit until bedtime. The old man and I worked for a candle company back in the early 90′s after our house burned out from a fire, and we needed work. It came in handy._

            -On another note, my favorite perfume Mary Chess 1932 is no longer in production,(it is if ya wanna pay $200 bottle) I found a recipe and ordered the oils ‘n’ I’m gonna make my own. I also make my own Breads, Pizza Doughs and butter. A couple years ago we started a veggie garden, we make it larger each year.__Hey, I look at it this way, our Grandparents did with out, that of which we enjoy today, if they can do it, so can I. With prices going up I cut corners where I can, it’s actually kinda fun. _Now I’m looking into get a couple chickens for eggs.

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            kodster, sorry I went off on a tangent and didn’t really answer your comment__-I agree,anything that is good for us the consumer, the GUV outlaws. And yes the states should start stepping in here, take back the control the GUV has taken. I just said the the old man, that no matter what the GUV gets they’re hands on, you can bet. The price is going up, it’ll be outlawed, or taxed and regulate to death!

            But Ronald Reagan said it best ” The government’s view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
            Ronald Reagan

    • Greg

      I’m all for finding alternative forms of energy, but the truth is that the technology just isn’t there yet to be pushing solar and wind power and electric cars on us. These supposedly “free” energy sources end up costing more than twice what conventional oil, gas, and coal do. We have more than enough oil, gas, and clean coal available to meet all our energy needs for the next 100 years without importing a single drop of oil. I think the only common sense solution involves allowing us to tap into our own energy resources, while investing in more R & D on alternative energy and more fuel efficient vehicles. That way we create jobs and buy time until the technology really does allow PRACTICAL use of alternative energy. At the same time we are reducing or eliminating our dependence on foreign oil, which is especially critical with all the instability in the Middle East.

      One more thing; we have had the technology for better fuel economy for years, but have chosen not to use it. I recall my 1987 Honda CRX getting 52 mpg on the highway. I also recall renting a full-sized turbo-diesel SUV a couple years ago in Germany which got 40 mpg on the Autobahn at 100 mph! Of course this model was not sold in the US. Since the Germans are perhaps even more anal on emmissions and safety than we are, I cannot imagine any valid reason why we shouldn’t be able to get that car here. No doubt it is tied to government corruption and corporate greed- the real driving force behind everything done in the US.

      • CJ

        Clean Coal? Did they find a source on another planet?

      • Dan az

        Greg
        Your right about that,there is also diesels by volkswagen that get 100 mpg but are not aloud to be imported here because of the EPA.The idea of solar cars are just a pipe dream the problems with solar are the storage capacity of the batteries,200 yr old technology.Until they release the batteries that they use in space its just not going to happen.Hydrogen producing cars will be the next generation of cars that we will see, that only produce clean air and water.But it is still a long ways off.Unlimited fuel that is made from water that can produce clean energy for your home and your car from tap water.Until then there is know reason to raise gas prices,it is just another way to redistribute the wealth and break the backs of our citizens.The technology is there but is being withheld for that one purpose.
        Solar is fine for single family houses but not for large cities,there is just not enough land available to cover up with panels,let alone the massive amount of batteries that it would take to store the necessary energy to run all of the houses and industry.It’s just a joke (lie) to prolong the theft of our economy.The funny thing is if lead is such a bad thing with the environmentalist why are they pushing lead acid batteries for everything.Batteries have a life cycle of 80 cycles then they are dead.The EPA has stopped the mining of lead so where is the batteries going to come from?China is the one that is buying up all our lead new and used.I guess that must be one of those shovel ready jobs that the great one is talking about.The solar panel industry has been bought up by Big oil companies as to keep the prices up.
        Nuclear energy needs to be replaced as well as coal plants with new technology that is available with thorium 232 which is clean and safe and is everywhere.But there not doing it either.We can blame each other all day long but until we take back this country from the marxist in chief we will never go forward only backwards.
        Trying times for sure!

        • Christin

          Dan AZ,
          Great post.

    • http://marcum1@wildblue.net coal miner

      Doc Sarvis and Bill:

      Nova Technologies Pursuing Self-Charging Vehicle Technology
      Dec 30, 2006 … Institute claims to be developing a “self-recharging electric vehicle, … State -of-the-art kit cars with polycarbonate body components, …
      http://pesn.com/Radio/Free_Energy_Now/shows/2006/12/30/9700220_Nova_Technologies/ -

      Check it out.

    • 5StarTexan

      Doc if you believe that oil is a dying market you are unbelievable ignorant & you have believed the “greenhorn toads” lies. What happened in the 60′s set up the 70′s and the future and that was called earth day and the EPA. Catalytic converters happened in the 70′s which cut back fuel mileage tremedously and then the government got involved in car making requiring this and that on cars until the car manufacturing industry was ruined. Next the government came up with the Nafta Trade agreement which brought in more foriegn manufacturing of autos and other trade agreements began to sell the USA out of the car manuf business. On top of that unions went mafia style and pushed car workers to demand way more than manuf could afford to pay. Government and unions should have kept out of the private businesses of corporations and private business. One thing that affected the car industry was when the steel industry was allowed to shift all its work ot overseas companies.
      Now about the oil,America has the largest pool of oil sitting under her than all other nations put to gether!!! The EPA and other officials are lying to this nation about the status of oil. Most people think oil comes from dead dinasors but that is not true. Oil is being continously made. The only poblem we have here is idiots who will not allow us to drill for our own resource claiming harm to the enviroment while allowing enemy nations to drill for our oil at the same time…..It is about money and power to control the people!!! Why should we give Brazil over a trillion dollars to help them drill in the Gulf of Mexico when we have over 50,000 oil feild workers out of a job because Obama won’t allow American to drill and get those workers back to work?? Why should China be drilling off the coast of Florida and Alaska??? You see the EPA is about giving our sovereignty over to the UN and it is about controlling the world economy and one world government not about cleaning up the environment. That is only a Trojan Horse!!

      • Aix Sponsa

        Right on. //The anti-smog mandate did produce more fuel efficient vehicles. //Oil is believed to be a renewable resource produced in the magma several miles down. (What, no dead dinosaurs 6 miles deep?) //Drilling was approved in AK and WY and the EPA and the animal people put a stop to it. DEFUND THE EPA. Why should the USA and Europe fight for cleaner air when countries like Russia and China get to ignore their polution? And those volcanoes. How dare they erupt. Oil will fuel the planet for another 200 years. Do I hear voices from “1984″?

      • Dan az

        5Star Texan
        You sir are Right on the money!And very well put!Thanks!!!!

      • Christin

        Also well stated.
        Thanks, 5StarTexas.

    • DaveH

      So, Doc’s idea of wising up is to use an uneconomical alternative energy when we don’t need to. Oh yeah, that is wise. Doc is one of those ignorant people who think they know best how to run our lives.
      They don’t.

    • Lewis Munn

      How about nuclear energy? France has made it work well, and we are as smart as the French, and do not have the fault/earthquake problem of Japan!

  • Anthony

    Okay – Here’s the deal …

    1. Recently, Stan Meyer was poisoned, and died, upon leaving the Pentagon. They were attempting to sign a deal where the Millitary would begin to use his new technology. You do realize it’s possible to run your car on water, yes?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a74uarqap2E

    2. Going back in time – there’s this, about a Nikola Tesla invention
    http://presscore.ca/2011/?p=91

    3. Here’s more evidence and discussion on the Water Fuel Secret —
    http://pesn.com/2011/05/9501821_10x_Attempted_Murder_Survivor_Mr_X_to_Reveal_Water_Fuel_Secret/

    Now, it’s up to you, but this nonsense of defending the status quo as if your own Government & this Countries’ Corporations would never lie to you… is something all need to quit doing.

    It’s as bad as the Cancer discussion where mutliple cures are now out there, but the TV simply doesn’t have time to tell America about it…

    Here’s another extended video of a guy running his Truck in much the same way. And, no, this is not fuel assist, with some add-on that was viral a couple of years ago … this is the real deal.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yuN3pl7Vwk&NR=1

    You can search Stanley Meyer and come up with much much more. In fact, I believe one guy is selling the designs for only $47.

    • Cliffystones

      Buy a set of those plans, set it up, and let us know how it works out for you :).

      • Lewis Munn

        Or buy me a set of plans, and finance me for the needed items, and I will make a full report on my old truck.

        I am retired, so have time, and was in engineering so feel I can do a good job.

        Just cannot afford to on SS, as Obama drives my outgo out the roof. Be glad to report back fully, even with pics.

    • Cliffystones

      Ok with regard to the Tesla thing, maybe he did do something wonderful (he was brilliant IMO) but the explanation the author of the article gives is pure, unadulterated BS!

      An amplifier, be it vacuum tube, transistor or IC doesn’t actually “amplify” anything. An amplifier uses a small source voltage (microphone, tuner, cd player etc.) to control, or “modulate” a larger supply voltage. The output of the amplifier is a larger, but (theoretically) exact replica of the input source. But you need a source of DC voltage like a battery or ac to dc power supply to provide the larger source voltage to be modulated. Nothing coming out of a guitar amp (the author’s example) is magically “made bigger” or “amplified”. The guitar’s small output is being used to modulate the supply dc voltage to an exact replica of the guitars signal, only larger DUE TO the larger DC voltage supplied. Kind of like those “Pantographs ” where you could insert 2 pencils and write with one and the other would duplicate your movements. I think they have those for routers in woodworking as well, but that’s the basic idea.

      As far as the big “water” secret, if these folks have had as many attempts on their lives as claimed, why not just use the Internet to spread the “secret” to everyone? Load up a bunch of thumb drives and leave them laying around public places. Take them to public PCs at libraries and other places and upload the content all over the web. No it’s easier to set up a web site and charge some amount of money, like the powers that be would never be able to track them down that way,NOT!

  • Insurgent

    How can people who can barely afford high gas prices be able to go out and buy a new fuel efficient car, pay all the registration fees, pay higher insurance rates, and pay the higher property taxes?

    Buckwheat says, “Get used to it.” He does not pay for any fuel for his vehicles or jet trips. The American taxpayer pays his bills.
    What an embarrassment he is to the White House !!!!!!!!!!!

    • Bob G

      Amen brother.

    • Doc Sarvis

      “Buckwheat”!!! Another racist comment I’ve too often noticed on the pages of this site.

      • http://! Angel Wannabe

        Doc, if ya don’t like it then leave, it ain’t rocket science! :)

        • Doc Sarvis

          That would be a quitter’s way out. Another trait of an unAmerican individual you seem to like to promote. I am not a quitter.

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            doc, if your trying to be a comedian, don’t quit your day job.

          • http://naver samurai

            No one is asking you to quit, just fade away into the sunset. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Doc Sarvis

            If folks on this site don’t regulate racist communication here and elsewhere, then conservatives/tea party people will continue to earn that label.

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            Doc, thats the difference between Liberal & Conservative, we believe in Freedom of speech across the board, you Liberals only believe in it when the when majority agrees with you. BTW, I saw no racial slurs, your just trying to start trouble.

          • Bob G

            I’ve got your unamerican racism right here doc.

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            Bob G, LMAO!!!

          • jibbs

            Well, don’t go away mad, just go away.

          • Dan az

            That’s just what I needed a good laugh,Thanks guys!

          • Thamera

            What “racist communication” would that be Doc LMAO! For you to even make that statement is clear that you don’t even know what racism is – there is a new label for you Doc – “Racer”. People that cry “racism” when they are losing an argument or can’t think of anything better to say. LMAO – you are pathetic.

        • Raggs

          Doc is just mad because you left out Zira… :)

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            Raggs LOL!

        • Doc Sarvis

          I’m not surprised so many of you find racisim so funny.

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            Doc, Nothing in life is fair Doc I found that out at 7 when I started taking care my sick Mother, get over it. You Politically Correct Nutz act like everythings “Not Fair” and has to be to your liking__EGADS!!Talk to someone, who REALLY know just how bad life can be. Being called a racist slur isn’t nothing compared to some curves life can really throw ya!! How’s ’bout a LiL’ Cheese with that Whine?

          • Lewis Munn

            I didn’t see any racism when I read it, and it is still hard after rereading it.

            I think it takes a dedicated racist to really find all these “intentional slurs” in ordinary conversation!

      • Carlucci

        What does “Buckwheat” mean to you, doc sarvis? Where I come from, it can mean a person from the country, like a hick. I used to go to school with a family of kids with the last name of “Wheat”. The oldest boy and his dad went by “Buck Wheat” – “Buck” was their nickname. Then there were our neighbors the Corns – Pat and Bill. Guess what their nicknames were? “Pop” and “Bull”.

        Like a typical libtard, you are reading the term “Buckwheat” as negative. I guess you thought Eddie Murphy’s hilarious portrayal of Buckwheat was “racist”. Someone as self righteous as you are probably doesn’t have many friends, or if you do, they are most likely as boring…

        • Kinetic1

          Carlucci,
          To most under the age of say 40, Buckwheat is a reference to the Eddie Murphy sketch. To those of us who have been around it is clearly a reference to the old “Our Gang” comedies and the character Buckwheat. By today’s standards, the Buckwheat character was a racial stereotype of a simple minded yet sweet black. He was part of the group, but they made it clear through his speech and his actions that he was not as bright as the white kids. How can you or anyone else on this site truly defend the description of our President as Buckwheat and claim with a straight face that it was not racially motivated?

          • Eddie47d

            They can’t and they won’t.

          • Carlucci

            Kinetic – you will just never get it. I’ve heard people called much worse names than “Buckwheat”. And who said Our Gang’s Buckwheat was “simple minded”? You did! Personally, I thought he and Stymie were darling. I really only liked three kids on that show – Spanky, Buckwheat, and Stymie. I guess you have forgotten that there were white kids on that show who portrayed simpletons. Alfalfa is a good example.

            You know, I’m sure you might be a nice person, but I would really appreciate it if you would stop with the condescending and insipid lectures.

          • American Patriot

            OK! From now on we will call him SAMBO. And, That seem to fit him better anyway.

          • Lewis Munn

            Hey, maybe you are right! Obama doesn’t seem to know that printing “funny money”s by the trillion leads to runawey inflation.

            He doesn’t see the fallacies in Global Warming claims, especially since the sun is building up into a hot cycle now, from what astronomers have said, or that Mars is also warming up, without man’s efforts!

            He has to read his speeches, cannot learn them and say what needs to be said on his own.

            You might have a real point; he might be described as the character “Buckwheat” so long ago was cast. Likeable, but a bit slow. No teleprompter in Buckwheat’s day tho!

            Good thinking.

        • karolyn

          Oh, come on, Carlucci. You know very well how the term is usd in this context, and it’s not the first time I’ve heard Obama referred to in this way on this site.

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            Karolyn_ yeah and I’ve heard of some Blacks refer to us as crackers, so whats the point?__

            I have friend who’s a staunch Jew, he stutters terribly, but sings like a bird, I call him the Jewish Rapper!
            Get off the name calling bit for God’s sake, that’s for kindergarders or better yet, just ignore it.

          • Carlucci

            karolyn – see my comments above to Kinetic. BTW – I’m an equal opportunity offender when it comes to D.C. You should have heard what I used to call the Bushes.

            Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think we still have freedom of opinion and speech in this nation.

    • Cliffystones

      Stop insulting Buckwheat! He was a cool dude. Call BHO what he really is, The Antichrist!

      • Christin

        Cliff,

        Nah, BHO is probably not that important or high on the evil scale… to get the name of Anti-Christ. Oh… he’s evil all right, but I would call him more of “Barack the Burner” … kind of like the Good ‘John the Baptist’ came before Jesus did and laid the way for him to come on the scene, obamy comes before and lays the way for the evil Anti-Christ to come and ruins things beyond repair.

        • jibbs

          @ Christin…….Barack the Burner, I like that! lmao, thats funny.

        • Raggs

          Beg your pardon Christin… The definition of an anti christ is one that is not for Christ…. This is around 80% of the worlds population!

          • Christin

            Raggs,

            Not all non-believers are as evil as the Liar in Chief.

            The Anti-Christ is the one who is ‘against Christ’, but he tries to impersonate him for a time and is the opposite of Christ. The Anti-Christ can NOT save anybody, only destroy them.

            “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.”
            Matthew 7: 13-14 [Bible]

      • http://! Angel Wannabe

        cliffystones, we get referred to as “Crackers” all the time, if I got p*ssed every time I heard that so called slur from across the street, I’d need an umbrella!

        • Eddie47d

          I didn’t think you had a funny bone in your body Angel. That was a good one although Doc was right. Obama insults are a dime a dozen on this site and with inflation those insults are now worth .20.

          • Raggs

            Ed.. here you go again… No one is insulting obama, we are just telling the truth!.. Can’t handle it? Go away!

          • Eddie47d

            Raggs; You and Jeff think you’ll get a bigger award for the most insults you throw at Obama. I think you are up to about 50 and Jeff is slightly lagging behind. Then again he’s always had a lagging Be Hind. LOL Yes Jeff I see your next insult below and they are plentiful.

          • JeffH

            …and well deserved I might add…

        • Cliffystones

          When I worked in L.A. with 90% Hispanics (not all of whom were bone-headed progressives), I would simply tell them “I’m just a White Dude with an attitude”

        • JeffH

          Angel Wannabe, as you can see by his followup comment, 47D is still a mindless troll.

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            Jeffh, yes and damn I didn’t hardly get my line in the water!;)

          • Raggs

            Did you have enough time to bait the hook?

          • JeffH

            Raggs & Angel, that moron has a permanently affixed hook.

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            Raggs___ I baited the hook with a cracker!_lol

  • Mitchell Ennis

    You city people really are a joke. Our idiot president say’s check you tires and get a tuneup. That jackass and all you others need to stop flying around in your jets. You use more fuel in one trip than my town uses in a month. All these little aircraft run 100 octane LEADED GAS. No pollution devices at all. Jets take off from everyy major airport in this country every 3-5 minutes full or not. Jets use highly refine kerosine which is very expensive and a wasteful process to produce.
    So city boy come out your little nest with your honda civic and try to drive on one of our roads. Take a look at the safety rating of your wonderous little peice of junk. Drive in 2 foot of snow with them.

    We have plenty of oil reserves and the environment will always be polluted regardless of any mode of transportation.

    Whats running you electric trains and cars. Where is the electricity coming from???? Think about it, it comes from a power plant run by coil or natural gas.

    Fill up on stupid, well Mr. Myers to use a phrase from Forrest Gump, “stupid is as stupid does”

    • Dan az

      stupid is as stupid does”
      That fits your comment,The fact is kerosene is just one step above diesel 2 and is the cheapest thing to produce.That must be why the cost is the highest at the pumps jack ass.By the way I would put a front wheel drive car up against any four wheel drive in the snow or the mud and bet pink slips that I would get there first.BTW I live up 7 miles up a dirt road and get three feet of snow to boot.Want to bet?

      • Aix Sponsa

        pretty obvious that you don’t know anything about what jet fuel is. It is NOT what it was 20 years ago. EPA schtuff and all.

      • Kinetic1

        I’m with ya Dan. There’s a reason you see all those VW Golfs driving around Switzerland. And if you just have to have 4WD, my old Subaru used to just glide over the snow.

      • Mitchell Ennis

        Highly refined kerosine ding ding, costs more to produce get it. There has not been one front wheel drive car that can make it up my driveway when it snows many have tried. Then again any idiot knows that four wheel drive is better in the snow. Go take a pill and call a doctor in the morning, meathead.

    • jibbs

      Avgas grades are defined primarily by their octane rating. Two ratings are applied to aviation gasolines (the lean mixture rating and the rich mixture rating) which results in a multiple numbering system e.g. Avgas 100/130 (in this case the lean mixture performance rating is 100 and the rich mixture rating is 130).

      In the past, there were many different grades of aviation gasoline in general use e.g. 80/87, 91/96, 100/130,108/135 and 115/145. However, with decreasing demand these have been rationalised down to one principle grade, Avgas 100/130. (To avoid confusion and to attempt to eliminate errors in handling aviation gasoline, it is common practice to designate the grade by just the lean mixture performance, i.e. Avgas 100/130 becomes Avgas 100). More recently, an additional grade was introduced to allow one fuel to be used in engines originally designed for grades with lower lead contents: this grade is called Avgas 100LL, the LL standing for ‘low lead’.

      All equipment and facilities handling avgas are color coded and display prominently the API markings denoting the actual grade carried. Currently the two major grades in use internationally are Avgas 100LL and Avgas 100. To ease identification the fuels are dyed; for example Avgas 100LL is colored blue, while Avgas 100 is colored green.

      Avgas fuelling nozzles for overwing dispensing are painted red. To help prevent the possibility of jet fuel being supplied to a piston engine aircraft, the nozzle of an Avgas fueller is limited to a maximum diameter of (internationally) 40 mm (49 mm in U.S.A) and the aperture on an aircraft Avgas tank to a maximum of 60 mm diameter. Nozzles for Jet A-1 are larger than 60 mm and thus cannot be placed into an aircraft’s Avgas tank.

      Jet A is a similar kerosene type of fuel, produced to an ASTM specification and normally only available in the U.S.A. It has the same flash point as Jet A-1 but a higher freeze point maximum (-40°C). It is supplied against the ASTM D1655 (Jet A) specification.

      • Dan az

        Thanks jibbs
        Sounds like they only put antifreeze in the jet fuel.We use it in the trucks in the winter time for easier starting.

  • MASON

    Automobiles are much more efficient than they were in the 1970′s. But even with the present MPG averages of 27.5 mpg, we are back to square one on having enough fuel supplies. This is because we are beholding to foreign oil producers that are taking full advantage of us. We are facing again what our self representing representives were supposed to address nearly 40 years ago — being self sufficient. The cost of getting rid of that present day gas hog is going to be high. Dealers are already raising the price of small cars, while lowering the trade-in values of big cars.

    Our moble society is almost irreversibly locked into having personal transportation — expecially in small venues. The larger cities still have some public transportation. Finding a solution to our massive fuel usage is going to be a steep mountain to climb.

    I offer my solution in 3 parts. Drive as little as possible, and impeach this Marxist President for high crimes and misdemeanors, which he and his henchmen have definitely commited. Then, DRILL BABY DRILL!!!

    • http://! Angel Wannabe

      Mason, Hear, Hear!

  • rockland pirate

    I do own a SUV, and it’s the ridiculous statements that they ONLY get 6-10 in city driving and 15 miles on the highway that perpetuate the continuous lie. I get 15 city and 20 highway. True, not even close to 30-45 miles per gallon but with 5 people you sure travel in a hell of a lot more comfort than in a Honda Civic for family vacations ranging from Cooperstown, Ny to Pompano Beach, Fl. And it is still cheaper to drive to these places than to fly and rent a car. And that SUV has saved us with it’s all wheel drive capacity in the winter. I also use it to haul trash barrels of horse manure, and have moved furniture with it. I don’t think trash barrels can even stand upright in a car….so my SUV is a practical thing to own.
    Yes, I do agree that we need to weed ourselves from oil consumption, but please don’t blame it on the SUV.

    • libertytrain

      I have to agree with much of what you pointed out. It’s tough to get around the mountain in the winter here, without the 4 wheel drive capability of the SUV.

    • Christin

      rockland,
      We, too, own a new SUV purhcased last summer for our family of four, driving and hauling, and making long treks to our farm from town and now the grocery stores many miles away as we have moved to our country property. My spouse has a small truck and can haul things that can be outside even if it rains, but is tight for all of us to ride… my two boys are getting really big. My Honda Accord died and I have been driving a mini-van since my oldest was six months old. The van has been great with lots of room, but was not the best for the long journeys and awful driving on the rocky county roads and bumpy terrain here in the country. So my spouse purchased a SUV so we could pull things on the back, haul three coolers of food to our farm from stores far away, and be safe driving long distances in strong winds on the road. A purchase of necessity and an enjoyable ride as well.

      America just needs to rise up get the rest of the public on the band wagon and force our Stupid Gov’t TO DRILL FOR OIL and GAS in our own country.

      I think maybe many of you are NOT aware that we use ‘crude oil’ for many products such as: gasoline, diesel, jet fuel, heating oil, and natural gas. It is also an ingredient for the manufacture of chemicals, fertilizer, plastics, synthetic fibers (fabric), rubber and even the everyday products such as: petroleum jelly, ink, crayons, bubble gum, dishwashing liquids and deodorants.
      JUST WAIT FOR ‘A L L’ the prices to rise on those products…

      It seems… even though ‘Global Warming’ has been debunked with alarmists lieing and falsifying documents & research and ‘Going Green’ has been proven a job loser and failed product causing those countries to lose money and not save the environment at all… that many ‘sheeple people’ are still ignorant to those facts and unwilling to listen to stand for using our natural resources of oil, gas, and coal to help our nation be energy independant and prosper.

      • jibbs

        Diesel is a by-product of making gasoline, on so are lot of other oil based products,

    • jibbs

      My F-350 7.3L diesel gets 18mpg and 15mpg pulling about 7000lbs. of weight for a total of about 13 to 14000lbs. I just beat the pants off your SUV, do the math.

      • Dan az

        Hey jibbs
        I have a Dodge diesel that gets 21mpg in the city and 23 on the highway 17mpg’s when towing 17000 pounds and dont plan on getting rid of it either.You can store diesel and make your own with veggy oil.I’m keeping an eye on veggy oil in the stores when it becomes lower than diesel.

        • kodster5

          Dan, what about recycled veggy oil? Look at celebs like Jimmy Buffett who stop at places like McDonald’s, where they put their used fry oil in containers to be picked up by waste handlers. Jimmy, and others like him, use it to run their RVs and tour buses, because they’ve converted them over to it. I’ve heard stories from Jimmy himself doing this. It’s a great idea, to recycle.

  • DMS

    In 2002, the REPUBLICAN BUSH administration sued the California Air Resource Board and won; Ford, GM, Honda, Toyota electric cars were immediately destroyed and replaced with gas guzzlers (kinda like Building 7). You know one deceitful way the Bushes made there filthy lucre$$$$$ – oil.
    Should you watch Who Killed the Electric Car,
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39K36Rw7LYc
    you will realize the technology has been around for 30 or more years.
    Know that Stan Meyer mysteriously died of food poisoning before he was able to get his proven water car to the market.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyYEfRqjcgg
    Joseph Newman has tried to get a patent for his energy machine which produces more output energy than input, but the patent office will not give him one: either his drawings are not accurate enough or his description is physically impossible.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJXst04Lswk
    GE was given a patent for Newman’s pump technology, but still no patent for the Newman Generator.
    The TRUTH is out there – you just have to have eyes to see and ears to here, what happened to Building 7 is what is happening to these technologies. Hopefully the Hopi prophecy will come to pass, and we as truthers will choose a better way!

  • TIME

    We have a Mazda Midia for running around town it gets about 28 MPG, but when on the HWY she still is near that amount at no more than 32 MPG, she is way below 200 HP.

    Thats odd when you think that our 2000 740 IL BMW gets around town 19-21 MPG – yet on the HWY an easy 29-30 MPG and we have gotten even better on long trips as high as 34 MPG when the CC is set at 75 MPH.
    As 90% of her time is on HYW driving, she is a big 8 with well over 350 hp.

    The Porsche gets around town 17-21 MPG, HWY she will hit an easy
    30 MPG. And yes she is pumping an easy 300 HP.

    A lot of folks don’t take care of their cars as in keep them clean, to avoid wind drag, keep the oil in all venues changed tranny etc., tires at the right air levels, and or tire’s that’s cut drag.
    Also always keeping your car tuned up. As well as alignment’s done. Also driving by way of proper methods aid’s in higher MPG too.

    So you need not have a box to drive, just take care of what you have.

    We as a nation went wrong back in the 1970′s we built cars and BIG TRUCKS, then in the 1980′s built BIGGER TRUCKS, then in the 90′s even BIGGER TRUCKS, and we still are building MEGA TRUCKS.
    Folks TRUCKS have a rotten wind drag, making them use as much as 50% more Gas. Then add in the mass of weight and thats why most trucks rate in the less than 15 MPG range top end.

    And on that note Electric cars are not the answer, thats totaly absurd by any standards of rational thinking.
    Go check out the cost of the Carbon Energy unit, aka the battery.
    As well what do you think these carbon energy units will cost to dispose of?

    As in how much ground pollution will they create?

    Just a quick question how much ground POLLUTION do you all think 6 million cell phone battery’s per month are creating?
    Or that many Computer Battery’s?
    Or the melimine resin plastic’s to make the shells of these units? Let alone the waste materials from making these units in production?

    • rockland pirate

      Nobody wants to answer the questions you just asked until it’s a huge problem.

      • TIME

        Rock,

        I know and how sad is that?
        We know a couple who bought one of the special electirc cars a Volt only to have the battery starting to die in just 18 months.
        To get a new one was just a $6000.00 ticket; ~ OTD.

        When they asked what do you do with these battery’s the answer was we recycle. When pushed to buy a recycled battery, the answer was well they get recycled into a “Land Fill” so you can’t buy one of them.
        WOW ~ all that toxic waste and why is that again?

        So what happens when we have 3 million cars on the road that have these special battery’s?

    • MJ Montana

      Time, you are exaggerating again, at least on your “old” Bimmer and its horsepower. Google the 2000 BMW 740il:
      Engine: 32-valve, 4.4-litre V-8 Horsepower: 282 h.p. @ 5,700 rpm
      Torque: 324 lb.-ft.@ 3,700 rpm Transmission: 5-speed automatic

      • TIME

        Well MJ, Thats a 100% stock car would it not be?

        Did I say ours was 100% stock BRO? No, BRO not quite, not a single car we own is 100% stock. So perhap you should be a tad less of an ASS when you make stupid a POST, perhaps ask a question rather than make an ASS~umption out of yourself.

        But thanks for displaying that your good at finding trivia about 100% stock items. GOOD ON YA BRO. So other than looking at details have you ever owned a BMW?

        Let me just tell you a tad about BMW’s.

        They are the “BEST made cars” in the world bar non.

        We were hit at well over 70 MPH from the rear when were were at a dead stop.
        We walked away with out even a single scratch. Not one single window was broken and other than her tail that was crushed as well as some side dings from being bounced about she still was running. Yes the car was totaled.
        We were hit by a “GMC SURBAN” that was also Totaled and couldn’t even be moved, by the way the GMC’s air bags failed deploy.

        • MJ Montana

          Okay,

          First of all you can be a revisionist all you want and say how you hot-rodded you decade old Bimmer to push out more than 350 hp (which I seriously doubt). And you can say I don’t know anything because I make ass-umptions. You just made one. I have owned a 318i, a 525i and a 530i so I probably know as much or more about the BMWs as you do.

          But this you can’t escape; that you have a “big 8″. Sorry “bro”, it is four litres or 244 cubic inches. Your big 8 is a little more than half the engine size of the Lincolns people were driving in the ’70s which was a 460 cubic inch V8s.

          Are you going to write back and tell me you also bored out your “little” V-8 as well and that I made another ass-umption?

          • TIME

            Well MJ,

            Wowie for you,
            I can’t even count all the cars I have owned over the last 40 plus years, perhaps 50 or more. Heres a start; 3, BMW 5′s one of we gave to our kid who’s at school. 3, BMW 7′s.
            My first BMW was 2002 model 2 door with stick way back in 1974, that was back when I even had a Lotus Europa as well as a brand new TVR with the Massive 8, and a 74 XKE 12, and all at the same time.

            I have also owned a 63, 66, 68, and 72 Corvette’s.
            Also a 68 BRG XKE, and even XJS 12 too I had three of these beast.
            I am one of the few who has ever owned a “REAL 1964 Ferrari 250 GTO,” I even owned a 1968 Shelby Cobra GT 500.
            Yea BRO, your right I know nothing about car’s.

            Hey BRO you know what saddly all the noted cars its even a drop in the bucket of cars I have owned since 1968 when I new BRG TR 6.
            So whats your point BRO?

            You can question what ever makes your little mind feel good.
            But in the end I stand by what I posted rather you like it or not.

        • MJ Montana

          You owned all those “fantastic” cars and you still don’t know that a 4 litre is a small V-8?

          You must either be stupid or a liar.

          In case you are telling the truth then “my” real name is “Jackie Stewart.” I won 27 Formula 1 races and oh by the way, the hired help drove the 5 Series BMWs that I mentioned.

          Get over yourself. The point of making comments is to be insightful and not simply brag about how rich you are, all the Ferraris and Vetts you have owned, or how you scored in the top 5 percent of Mensa.

          • TIME

            MJ,
            I can see why your not anywhere near mensa level. You try and conform everything to your thinking when you don’t have ANY base facts at your disposal. Really quite normal for people with “very low IQ’s” who can’t grasp much of anything other than LITTLE BOX’S.

            First off we bought the car done up the way it is, as well it was done by the former owner who was speed nut. So no we didn’t hopp up a 10 year old car, as well we have owned it for 9 years now and oddly it’s not even broken 80K yet.

            Be that as it may ~ BRO, the car has been Turbo Charged, as well has up graded headers, the gears were reworked, let alone upgraded anti sway bars added, up graded wheels Tires and brakes, as well as many other upgrades that lend to at least 350 HP, as well the ability to handle the upgrade in HP, so Master Jackie Montana now I have explained it to you can you get back in your tight little box BRO?

            I hear mensa is looking for a coffee boy, perhaps thats a job you can handle.

        • MJ Montana

          I hear more bragging.

          Oh by the way, Mr. Mensa, you certainly have a lot of typos in your comments. For example you write about your Mazda “Midia”.

          Mazda didn’t make a Midia but they did make a Miata.

          While you are at it you should get the guy that sold you your 244 cubic inch 740il to turbo-charge your brain.

          Please write back and tell me what an accomplished author you are; that I have too limited intelligence “BRO”, to understand such a complex mind. I have a running bet you will.

  • pete0097

    Basicall, we have two government agencies working against each other and both against us, sort of. One is the EPA. they just want to have clean air. They charge us to test our cars so that the percentage of pollutants is below a required level (not realistic as that percentage is the same whether the pollutant comes from a car getting 30 mpg or 5 mpg.) The other is the NTSB. They want us to be protected from our poor driving habits with heavy, very durable cars. This has cause our cars to become very heavy versus the 80′s. A Neon went from 2600 pounds to 3500 pounds (GM and Ford did the same) so we could be better protected. The European, Asian countries decided that for the sake of saving fuel (market driven)they have kept cars lighter. The people know that they are not as safe, but with good driving habits including 1. better trained, 2. less road rage, 3. harsher penalties. They know that if they cut off a big truck, they will get smashed. Solution, stay away from them. They have ultimately better and safer roads and cleaner air.

    • Nadzieja Batki

      Sorry to contradict but the highest highway fatalities are in Asia and Europe. They just don’t make a fuss over anyone if they get killed or injured.

      • Eddie47d

        Saudi Arabia has the highest road fatalities in the world. They love speed and most deaths come from running red lights. Maybe they are color blind. 1/3 of all hospital patients there are from auto accidents. They also love drag racing and not with camels anymore.

        • Carlucci

          There is no speed limit in Saudi Arabia, and if you are a native, you don’t need a license to drive. Kids as young as 12 can drive there (males only – women cannot drive). And then there is Yemen, where everyone drives around high on Gat, which is a leaf they chew. It’s kind of like cocaine.

        • Cawmun Cents

          Nothing like the smell of Nitro Methane in the morning!N.H.R.A.Dragracing….speed limit 350 mph

    • Cliffystones

      Pete,

      So true! This mileage thing is more complicated than “Sherman Tanks vs Motorized Roller Skates”.

      I like John’s mention of the Capri. My friends older sister had one of those. In 1977 6 bucks would fill it up and we could drive forever, or so it seemed.

      Something not mentioned that I remember is how those shows like “Entertainment Tonight” and “Access Hollywood” used to do feature stories on the celebs who were trading in their Mercedes and Limos on huge, gadget-packed SUVs. These stories accelerated their popularity in the early 90s IMO. And those same limousine liberals now chastise us little people for following their gas guzzling trends.

      And why the argument over Civics vs Excursions anyway? The problem as I see it is the 5’2″. 120lb blond chick with her 5’6″ 150lb hubby and their 2 preschool kids who live in West Los Angeles and commute 12 miles one way but STILL make excuses about why they NEED that Excursion. Then they bitch and moan when it now costs $150 to fill it up.

      I’m 6’3″, 210lbs, so I tend to need a little leg room. I drive a CRV as I have only occasional need for more, which my small trailer usually covers. But I completely see the need for larger vehicles, especially trucks in many circumstances. And no way will electric motors and batteries ever replace those big boys in our lifetime.

      • Aix Sponsa

        Geez, I remember regular gas for 27 cents……… trouble is, I was making $1 hr. Good union jobs paid $2.20….. so today gas should cost how much? 7 bucks?

    • Thamera

      Are you kidding Pete? Have you ever been to Europe? How about driving through Italy or on the autoban in Germany? No road rage? No aggression? You sir could not be more WRONG! Driving through Europe was a harrowing experience whether on a bus or in our car!

  • Jennie

    I feel sorry for all those people who are driving gas guzzlers. My car is a 2005 two-door hatchback with a 5 speed standard transmission that gets 40+ miles to the gallon. I have gotten as much as 44 mpg. They are out there if you look for them.

    • Nadzieja Batki

      Who aked you to feel sorry for anyone? People buy the vehicle they need.

      • http://WeThePeople Jean

        Heh – he probably has to drive at the speed of 35 MPH to get that – and these people need to drive in the median with a tall red flourescent flag attached to the roof. When the Prius first came out they gave a outstanding MP gallon – the only thing was that it was never road tested. I think that he is just too embarresed to tell the truth. Bragg some where else

        • Eddie47d

          Prius gets 51/48 mpg.(4 cyl) Still very impressive even if it’s a little less which all vehicles seem to do less than advertised.

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            eddie, Oooo a fricken’ Prius!

          • Dan az

            Eddie
            The prius is a toyota echo with a generator that only runs in the city.The echo which I have gets 47 mpg even at 110 mph.Its because of the vvti cam that’s it can.The prius has the additional weight of the generator and the batteries to carry around and no one has gotten better than 35 mpg with it where I live.They also have the problem of 18 computers that cost on the average of 1800 apiece which constantly give up after about 5000 miles.I pass up prius’s all the time going up a 6% grade the best they seem to do is 65 on a 75 highway and yes I speed because I pass them at 110 just before the rev limiter kick’s in.I also have 375000 miles on my 01 and still drives like new.The prius cost at the time 20,000 and the echo cost 12,000 and will go 500,000 easy.They quit making them after four yrs because they didn’t break.I still haven’t had to do anything to it yet.It has a timing chain rather than a belt.the prius has a belt which needs to be replaced every 50,000 miles at the cost of 600 dollars.Built in obsolescence!

          • Aix Sponsa

            My friend is on Prius #4. None got better than 41 anywhere, anytime. He’s satisfied, just as I am with my TownCar.

          • Aix Sponsa

            One of my best friends has a 06 Carolla stick shift he bought new. He regularly claims 40-42 mpg. When we go someplace, he only gets 32. Guess it is my extra 170 lbs. LOL……. facts are MOST people are clueless as to what mileage they ACTUALLY get. If they find out the truth, they lie to save face because they hate to admit that their little toy car only gets a couple mpg more than the largest passenger car manufactured in North America.

          • Aix Sponsa

            Let me clarify: On this same 300 mile trip his Corolla gets 32, my TC gets 25. He uses 2.62 gallons less than me. That’s less than $10 difference. Consider reality. Should someone spend $25,000 to buy a smaller car to save a few hundred bucks a year?

          • Thamera

            No it doesn’t Eddie. I don’t know where you are getting your information from, but Prius tops out at 44 mpg under perfect driving conditions that according to the latest report from Consumer Reports.

          • Eddie47d

            As I said most car companies advertise higher mileage than what they actually get. 44 mpg is still impressive and few today can top that but I wish they could.

          • Dan az

            Eddiee
            Buy an echo from 2000 to 2004 they are on the market for about 3500 with 70,000 on them.trust me they just broke in the rings and will go the whole 500,000.

          • Dan az

            Oh I all most forgot they are made in Virgina by your friends the union.
            I did work the parts back counter at toyota for a couple of years so if you don’t believe me your loss.

  • Lucille Atwater

    First I don’t believe we are out of oil or are going to be in the next couple hundred years even if we still live comfortably. Second I believe we should be reasonably conservative, not purposely wasteful in use of energy. With this in mind I have to say that maybe there are people who don’t like hondas, maybe there are people who like to travel in comfort. My son has nine children, They will not fit in a Honda. I know there are those who will say nine children is too many but that is and should remain a personal decision. Then rural people have to get to work where their are no buses trains or even carpools available. I know there is the idea we should all have to live in cities and pile ourselves a little higher with resulting loss of community and rise in crime that again is a personal decision. the oil prices right now are not due to a shortage of oil or any threat there there will at any time soon be a shortage of fuel. Prices are manufactured by our government to control our choices. Big Uncle is always watching and increasing his power over our lives. Did not the great Uncle, himself, say we are too warm in the winter and too cool in the summer and eat too well? He is using his power to take care of that. Let the wind blow and the sun shine and let development go ahead but those things are not any where near ready to supply us the power we need so in the meantime open American oil fields and bring the prices down, down, down. I drive a 1990 diesel Jetta which gets 40 miles a gallon and I feel oppressed by these gas prices. I have friends and neighbors who heat with oil and many of them have turned their thermostats down so I have to keep my coat and boots on when I visit them. This is not about economy, it is about social control.

    • Jennie

      I know we are not out of oil. The president just refuses to allow anyone to drill for it (unless it is on private property). I am sorry one of the auto makers has not designed a vehicle which would be large enough for your son and his family and also fuel efficient. That would be a win/win situation . . . the auto manufacturer would make a lot of money and your son could save a lot. I live in a rural area and make a 63 mile round trip to work five days a week. . . total mileage for a week 318+ miles. Believe me, I am sympathetic.

      • Jennie

        And, by the way, I drive a Honda AccentGT hatchback.

    • Don

      Lucille, You hit the nail right on the head, this whole oil thing is bs, even the oil well in the gulf i think was staged to shut down all oil drilling in the states and here in Alaska, we need to rid our selves of this administration in 2012, lets take this country back and vote in some people who will do the right thing, we are loosing are freedoms people !!

      • Aix Sponsa

        Grab your butt with both hands. We’re stuck with this jerk administration for another 6 years… by then it will be too late.

      • Lewis Munn

        Just what makes you think you will really have a vote in 2012?

        Obama can shut down voting, declare himself the winner by executive decree, and what will you do about it? Or he can bring in the union Electricians like some others have done to be sure of a win! Computers do as they are programmed, regardless of the truth.

  • pete0097

    By the way, I have built a car that gets 26 mpg, goes 100 mph in the 1/4 mile in 14 seconds, has a top end around 170 mph and I built it for $2500. It is dependable, and only weighs 2700 pounds, hence the fuel economy and performance. Also consider the Dodge Charger. The 69 (best looking car ever) weighed around 3500 pounds, the new one (not bad looking) weighs around 4500 pounds. Put the new driveline into the old car will probably net higher fuel economy than either car could hope for.

    • Cliffystones

      I had a 68 Charger R/T. 440 V8, automatic. That bad boy would burn rubber from a standstill for a good 50-75 feet and the engine was on it’s last dying breath! It was a very, very lightweight car compared to the 73 Malibu I also owned at the time but what fun!

    • Aix Sponsa

      ‘Cuse me? 4500? Your scale is defective. My 69 LOADED up big block street charger weighs 3950 on calibrated electronic scales. Now, this new Challenger weighs 4400 on the same scales.

  • Barry Nall

    first, horsepower and fuel economy are not always antithetical to each other. A lot of the horsepower boom in the 80s was generated from technology used to boost fuel economy and lower emissions. (Electronic Fuel Injection) The main culprit is the size of the vehicle.

    As our fuel management technology has increased, so has the weight of our vehicles. In the mid 1990s, I had a crappy 1987 Mercury Lynx. I bought it from a friend with 45,000 miles, and 3 years, and just a clutch and brake jobe later, it through the timing belt and bent a lot of valves at 80,000 miles. In between those events, I got an honest 40-45 mph. In 1995, with $1.20 gas, my weekly commute was a whopping $15.00

    Can Fords comparable cars of today get close to that? Close, maybe. They are heavier, because of crash standards, and they are larger with more wind drag.

    I blame both consumers, automakers and the Federal Government. Europe has a plethora of small, high mph cars that don’t transision to the US because of various regulatory agencies. If there was more constant demand for efficient cars we might see them. Case in point – small turbo diesel cars. Typically, in the US market this means VW. and even these are porkier and less fuel efficient than Euro versions. If people purchased VW turbo diesels to the exclusion of other small cars, than Detroit would respond. (The diesel pickup market is large)

    You want 50 MPG? Can you live with a Geo Metro type vehicle? (I’m talking size, not necessarily quality.)

  • pennsyltuckian

    For most of us it comes down to practicality and pleasure. I will not spend a fortune on a new PoS econobox and give up my 12 year old, no payment BMW. It is good for about 24 mpg if I am careful and I drive under 5000 miles per year. The payback for any econobox PoS would be well past my lifespan no matter what the mileage, even a pure electric car. Far better to pay an extra $40/month for gas than have a $300 car payment, even at $10/gal like Europe.

    • http://! Angel Wannabe

      Pennsyltuckian, Its true what it comes down to is lifestyle. If you live on a farm I doubt that electric truck is going haul hay or livestock around.__On another note_Our neighbor has one of those new “matchbox” cars, it pulled out in front of someone with a mattress tied to the roof. I said to my husband, if that little car had that matress on it, all it would take is a good gust of wind to become air borne. The little cars may save gas, but aren’t practical. Hence the question remains are you really saving money, if you buy one of those little cars, and then have to pay delivery charges or pay someone else to haul an item that’s bigger than your car?

    • rockland pirate

      you are right on that point. I’m not making any car payments, so paying the extra $120 is not like making a car payment.

      • http://! Angel Wannabe

        rockland pirate, we’re not making payments either.Our 93 minivan looks like hell, but works just fine!

        On another note, I think this gas hike is being done for two reasons, one to pay for the oil spill damages in the Gulf, and two, to push electric and “supposed” more fuel efficient cars of today. The economy is down, so not many folks are buying new cars either.

        • Kinetic1

          Angel,
          Why isn’t anyone on this site talking about speculators? In the old days only people in the oil business traded in oil futures and the prices were based on projected supply and demand. Now we have people who wouldn’t know what to do with a barrel of oil driving the price up over and over again based not on their future needs, but on what they believe they can drive the value up to and make a profit. Let’s change the rules to require that any purchases require the delivery of the product and see what happens. The cost of storing 1,000 barrels of oil ought to take the profit out of speculating.

    • Aix Sponsa

      AMEN, logic wins everytime.

  • American Overseas

    Manners. Civility. Respect. I do not really like the job our president is doing. However he is our president. We must respect and honor him.
    I am sure that some of you who write crudely of him would not speak so in person.
    I was surprised by some of my Democratic friends during the Bush years. They hated Bush. Now, it seems the shoe is on the other foot and many Republicans hate Obama. As I said, I do not like the job he is doing, but I do not hate the man.
    He is the president. If you do not like the job he is doing, then come 2012, vote him out of office. Until then you should speak about him with the respect the office demands.
    I believe it is fine to disagree with his decisions and to say so. But to use derogatory terms to describe him is sad.

    • http://aol.com sean murrey

      He maybe your president but he is not mine.

      • wasadoc

        Sean–Hear! Hear!–He has given us absolutely nothing to respect, except lies and more lies. And I would ask that “ya’ll” please do not confuse me with the other “doc”.

      • Carlucci

        Dear American Overseas: – FYI – I respect people only if they deserve my respect. I could give a rat’s patootie about their “title” and/or “position”. If you are truly living overseas, you have no idea what is going on here. I lived overseas myself for several years and wasn’t really savvy to the goings on here, except that my parents and friends kept telling me to stay where we were and make as much tax free money as we could.

        The last thing I need is a lecture from people like you. MYOB.

    • http://! Angel Wannabe

      American Overseas__I repsect the office, nothing more! When Obama does something to deserve my respect, he will get it. Up until now, he has done nothing but destroy!

      • Thamera

        Exactly Angel…respect has to be earned…

    • Cliffystones

      Like Angel, I respect the office. But the way he speaks to the American People who disagree with him, I’m sorry but any respect I had at the beginning of his term he’s managed to prove unworthy of. Like the smart-assed comments he made yesterday in El Paso. If he were just another guy and talked to me in person like that he’d be a candidate for a knuckle sandwich (and no I wouldn’t unless he struck first, but the thought would cross my mind).

      Obama the person, is by no means a leader, a unifier or “Presidential” He speaks like an adolescent punk, not the leader of the free world.

      • http://! Angel Wannabe

        Cliffystones, Obama = Chicago Thugery at it’s finest!!!

    • Eddie47d

      What did you find out A. O.? That is as good as it get’s whether anti-Bush or Obama. Civility was yesteryear.

      • http://! Angel Wannabe

        eddie, if ya don’t like us calling you commander and thief names, email him, and tell him the butter spreads both ways on the bread. He talks down to us as if he’s King Obama, he only wishes!!!

        • Carlucci

          “commander and thief”….good one!

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            :)

    • Aix Sponsa

      I bought that speile for Bill, but no way for the zero.

  • Les

    The electric car is a joke. In order for it to be practical it has to have a range above 1000 miles and not take 8-16 hours to recharge. Alternative fuels are a lot more expensive per unit cost. That’s why we drive gas powered cars. The stupidity comes from people that drive vehicles like SUVs because they can afford them. This is a very selfish attitude considering the fact you are burning our fuels at 2 to 3 times the rate of people trying to make a difference. We can’t afford you. We also don’t appreciate the fact that you use those jacked up vehicles to intimidate those of us that don’t drive them. The good news is gas is going to 5+ a gallon and most of you will not be able to pump $12,000 per year into you tank.

    I’m a motorhead, I own lots of cars, but my daily driver is an Eagle Talon with 220,000 miles on it and gets 30+ mpg daily and 38.5 during a full highway trip. And guess what, it’s fun to drive except for the jerks that insist on driving over me in their SUVs and Pickups. This will all self-correct, just like it did for Rome.

    • Wayne

      Is it lonely up there in your ivory tower looking down your nose at us who don’t comform to the way you live, don’t drive what you drive. There is only one person who is impressed with the fact you drive a car with 220,000 miles and get 30 mpg and that’s you.

      • Eddie47d

        Les is wise and efficient. He enjoys his vehicles and takes care of them which should be a conservative principle. Apparently there aren’t very many real conservatives on this site.

        • http://! Angel Wannabe

          Oh, eddie for God’s sake get over yourself, like your a conservative__That too is laughable!!!

          • Eddie47d

            You know better than that Angel but we use to depend on conservatives to have high economic principles and morality. Now they have neither.

          • JeffH

            Angel Wannabe, 47D think’s he more like a “Libertarian” if you can phathom that.

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            Jeffh, more like LIBBER-tarian! :)

          • Eddie47d

            I’ll accept that even if it was kind of a weak remark. Now is that like being a CON servative. See ya later.

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            eddie, Oh my God the Great OZ has Spoken! Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain…..

        • Carlucci

          Eddie47 – we can really do without the condescending attitude and lectures. Yawn….

          • Eddie47d

            Then don’t encourage your fellow travelers.

    • Cliffystones

      Another phenomenon I haven’t seen mentioned. Back in 2008 there was suddenly a glut of used SUVs that people unloaded because gas hit $4. Then in the ensuing months I heard news reports to the effect that sales for larger vehicles and SUVs were up. Not I guess those same folks who can;t do math will again be trading in those SUVs and spending thousands of dollars to save hundreds of dollars at the pump.

      Lie Ron White says “You can’t fix stupid”.

    • 45caliber

      Les:

      There used to be vehicles out that would carry at least five people and usually six. Station wagons would sometimes go to eight people. But now the ONLY choices other than a full sized van is an SUV or a four door pickup. If you have more than four in your family, you need something bigger or you have to drive TWO cars – which immediately eats up the gas savings with a smaller car. It takes even more room for smaller children here in Texas since they require them to be in child restraint seats. No one is allowed to hold a child on their laps any more. (And don’t claim that it is safer that way. We know it. I also know that if it was as dangerous as they make it out to be, none of us would be alive.)

      On top of that, the SUVs are better built and therefore safer to drive. Take a look at the accidents between a big car and a little one. The little one gets the worst of it every time. I prefer the big one simply for that reason – although the only big one I have now is a pickup I need for hauling.

      • Les

        So for safety reasons we should all be driving dump trucks cause we all know who loses when hit by one. Reminds me of the News commentator that stated he drove and H2 hummer because he could afford it. Glad everyone can afford to use up all the resources at 2 and 3 times what should be the normal rate. Just gets us to the end a lot quicker.

  • http://aol.com sean murrey

    i will keep my old car 1995 ford.

  • Wayne Leathers

    Brazil can sell the USA alcohol at about $1.00/gal but we charge them $.57 import tax. Why not charge $.57/gal import tax on oil? We could probably balance the national budget and slow down the money going to our enemies!

    Who are we kidding we keep electing thieves to office!

    What elected official has said, we need to cut all spending by 5% and I will start with my salary and that of my staff!?!

  • Louie

    I drive a small Ford Ranger (1987) & it gets good gas mileage…but that’s what I choose to drive & I let everyone else drive what they want. And I don’t try & tell them what to drive, that’s their business. All you people need to get a life & leave people to their own vices…I don’t care what it costs them to fill up…quit trying to tell people what to do…………………………………….
    let the “gas” run out, I don’t give a damn, ok???

    • Bert Cundle

      I’m with You… I Have 2, Ford Couriers… The Problem with the new cars… They are “FOREGINERS”, Made here! People have NO LOYALITY, to our COUNTRY!

      • http://WeThePeople Jean

        My 2000 Firebird – the engine was made in Canada – the other engine parts were made in Mexico. And Yes that was the first LEMON I have ever owned.

        • Dan az

          Jean
          You forgot that japan makes the computers!
          The only cars made now in the USA is toyota,Honda and a few others that are considered overseas the fact that chevy Ford and others are made outside the US is apparently hard for people to digest.I cant wait for the new chineese made chevy I’ll bet the head lights will be slanted.

      • Aix Sponsa

        Those who decide to absolutely “buy only American”, period, will be naked, cold, and gnawing on tree bark pretty damn soon.

        • 45caliber

          Exactly. We did and could now feed the world – but the government wants the farms cut back. Control of food.

  • Bert Cundle

    So many eyes yet can’t see… ( Austriches…) When things look bad, just put your head in the sand as deep as you can! In High School… We Paid $0.25 / Gallon for Ethal. “101 Octain” (With Lead). Smog in L.A. Cal. got so bad that Driving on 5 Freeway, My Eyes Wattered, & Burned so bad that I Couldn’t drive. Un Leaded Gas Went to $0.50 / Gal. To Comply with LAW! Than we encited wars in the M.E. & Evan Got involved in Many of them… Well The Distruction & Changes, Cost $$$,$$$,$$$,$$$. Their income is “OIL”! So they Upped the Price… Our Government Saw that the Price of Oil going up Works for them too. ( MORE TAX $$$,$$$,$$$.) Any one that has any thinking abilities relizes, that Oil has a Lifes end. BUT THE SUN, Seems like having a longer life than Oil. Conserve on Oil, for Lubbracting, Oil will last longer… There is lots of Jobs & $ for Sun, Wind, & other forms of Energy.
    How would you like to have a car that did all you want it to do, From Sun Power With Storage unit. ( I’m to old for it, but… I’d love it!) Don’t wory about the M.E.tiners… There INVESTMENTS are FAR INTO OTHER THINGS, Realestate, Solar, Food Chains, & Department Stores!

  • hottrodscars

    Fifteen years ago I bought a 1983 Buick diesel station wagon with the 5.7 diesel engine for $400. With me in it, it weighs 5000 pounds, and it gets 23 mpg in town, and 30 mpg on the road. I have not had any trouble with the engine because I maintain it well. To date, I have not spent over $500 on mechanical repairs. I do any required work myself as I am a mechanic. I would never put my family in an econobox. By the way, if you look at what batteries cost for this new electric car junk, they range from $4000 to $5000 in cost, and the Chevrolet Volt battery is around $8000. The Volt’s electric motor is $10,000 to replace, and that’s what GM pays for them. I figured out the 12.5 amps tapering to 8 amps the Volt draws from your house current, and my electric cost for that would cost more than the fuel I burn per month. Diesel fuel is easily available from coal which we have a lot of. It is old technology, German’s got diesel from coal in World War 2. First thing we need to do is get rid of Obama, and put some limits on the extremists at the EPA which is causing our industries to not be able to compete.

    • Aix Sponsa

      Oh, so you’re the one that got the only good GM diesel car.

  • Dad

    As BO’s pastor of 20 years says… god damn America. I am sure, like Michele, he doesn’t like this place much… and it’s showing.

    When this administration took office, the price of gas was under $2 per gallon… now it’s approaching $4/gal. This is of course what his administration set out to do as stated in 2008.

    … and true to their lack of honesty and integrity, they are trying to place the blame everywhere else. Ask yourself, who does this hurt most? This pinko group have no qualms of stepping on the head of “the little guy” to obtain their power.

    Americans are just too self-absorbed or apathetic to recognize the loathing Barack Obama displays for the United States of America.

  • Bill

    This article forgets about the 31mpg mustang. or the hybrid truck escape. Yes there is 400+ horse power mustang and etc. The mustang gt gets 25mpg highway. Also forgets chevy volt! The honda and toyota keeps raising the bar in horse power so detroit must answer. Want the gas price to go down stop buying new SUV from anyone. Detroit is not the only place to buy a gas guzzler.

  • Henry Ledbetter

    I owned a 51 Studebaker that consistantly got 27 mpg with a V/8 engine and overdrive transmission. It was great to drive 540 miles before filling up. They were ahead of their time and so didn’t last. With all the technolagy we have today, it should not be hard to improve fuel milage greatly..

    • http://! Angel Wannabe

      Agreed Henry, Problem is when cars were at they’re finest, the elites realized they were too simple for regular folks to repair and were losing money they could readily cash in on, thus regulation & computers took over. Now ya practically have to have a college education to even tune up one of these new fangled cars. Then you have planned obsolescence, on top of it, to keep car manufacturers and parts supply in business. The elites aren’t happy unless they control EVERYTHING!

  • http://N/A Bill Heil

    I own a 2008 Toyota Prius that averages 49 MPG in the city and have had it get up to 50 plus on the HWY. My friends all drive pick up’s that get 12MPG in the city on a good day. What’s wrong with this picture??? most of them have never hauled anything bigger than a bag of garbage, but they have to have that image of a “macho man” with hemi.

    To me this is filling up on stupid. All my Prius needs for maintainence is oil change and tire rotation until 100,000 mile’s unless something happens.
    Love to wave at my friends in the gas station putting in $100 just to do it again next week

    Get smart people

    • Cliffystones

      Just curious, but what will it cost to replace the batteries? And how long are they expected to last?

      • Carlucci

        I’d like to know that as well. My sister just bought a Prius.

        • Dan az

          Hey carlucci
          The prius batteries are 5000 dollars and I have seen them in the shop for batteries in the first year!

          • http://! Angel Wannabe

            Dan Az__ a Prius battery for 5000, WOW!_ Thats cost effective__NOT! H*ll we can get an old jalopy at the junk yard for $500 and fix it up, if ya know what your doing.

          • Carlucci

            Thanks, Dan az. I won’t be sharing that info with my sister, though. She’s already got way too much on her mind. I’ll have to say prayers that her Prius’ battery will last much longer than that….

    • 45caliber

      Bill Heil:

      I had a Kia Rio that got 38 mpg on the highway. My son-in-law had a Prius – which got 50 mpg on the highway. I paid $5800 for my car brand new. He paid $35,000. Both cars lasted four years (mine hydroplained). Considering the extra cost for his car vs. mine, I would take mine every time. The savings in fuel just isn’t justified.

      If you compare to a car getting 12 mpg, it would be but too many cars today will get far more than that. The car I drive now, a Chevy Cobalt, gets about 33 mpg. Still not good enough to justify the Prius even though I paid about $17,000 for it.

      But you can continue to feel superior when you drive it if you wish.

  • H. Kirk Rainer

    I remember that CIVIC; but I think the “fog lights” were actually turning signals….

    I also remember that for years, Paul Harvey’s gas mizer was the VW Rabbit Diesel(the 70′s and imports was a promising time for economy, for fuel sense & cents…; but to your point, such early efforts seemingly were stymied.

    In four decades, what progress has occurred in energy policy? Now that is a question for which Big Oil might just have the answers.

    • 45caliber

      H. Kirk Rainer:

      Speaking of that diesel – it is illegal to bring many of the foreign diesels into the US. They get too high a milage. But the government insists it is because they don’t have the pollution equipment mandaded for our own cars. Interestingly enough, they don’t put out any more pollution than our cars do despite not having that equipment.

      • Eddie47d

        Good point if that is true but show us the tests to prove if there isn’t any differences.

        • Dan az

          Eddiee
          Do you know what comes out of the tail pipe when they put on the catalytic converter its cyanide gas,Yep the same thing that they use in the gas chambers.

        • JeffH

          47D, you’re real good at asking people to prove things but you NEVER have and NEVER WILL prove anything on this website when asked or otherwise. That’s a fact!

          • Jay

            JeffH, eddie likes a good scrap. If you weren’t here, what would he do with himself?

  • LRay

    Here is a thought on using an old technology. Why are we not working on producing fuel from coal which can be produced cleaner than crude oil? We have an abundance of coal but the greenies have most believing that it is to much of a pollutant to be a good source.It would certainly help in the mean time until something better comes along

    • Cliffystones

      I just saw an article the other day where they are building a refinery to do just that. Pennsylvania or Virginia I think, but I don’t remember the details.

    • 45caliber

      LRay:

      The original coal fired plants were polluters. London about 120 years ago was so bad that most of the people looked black in old photos.

      The new plants are much much cleaner. BUT … the libs don’t want us using coal. Frankly, I’m not sure why unless they can’t control it as easily as they do oil. So they bring up the horrors of the old pollution rich plants as an excuse to prevent the new plants from being built. But some states are beginning to realize that coal plants can be operated efficiently. So we’ll see what happens to coal …

  • Terry

    Based on the inflation calculator, if gas was $1.40 a gallon in 1983 it should be #3.02 a gallon now.

  • Raggs

    The only reason gas is above $4 a gallon is because of obamas redistribution of wealth and his investment with george soros in petro-brazil while stiffling the US oil companies.

    • Aix Sponsa

      Geez, people used to complain about Bush and his oil croanies.

  • http://travelercowboy melford smith

    So if I get this article right everyone is suppose to go out and buy an economy car that is made mostly in foreign country, including a few of the chev’s and Fords. Yet we let oil companies steal the tecnology
    to make fuel economy cars possible. If we only knew how many patents the oil companies have bought out
    to be prevented from going to the market. AKA hydrogen cars the is already there. Even the goverment is envolved in some of the ideas being taken off the market. Yes our goverment is in bed with the oil companies, can’t help it some of our politicans are the oil companies.

    • 45caliber

      melford:

      The ONLY American made car is one put out by Toyota. I can’t remember the model. ALL “American made” cars by GM and Ford are as much foreign made as any other car on the road. Many are totally made foreign and still marketed as “American made”.

    • Eddie47d

      melford; Excellent point on those patents.It’s not just the oil companies buying them up but all businesses. They control better standards on mileage and what can and can not be built. Does the government own patents? If not then blame our private businesses for all this stagnation in progress. They are the ones holding us hostage until the next best thing comes along. New designers and those who are willing to develop more fuel efficiency can’t get their foot in the door because someone else owns the patents. Those who own patents don’t want to give up their cash cow to anyone.

      • 45caliber

        eddie:

        Keep in mind that those who own the patents are making money from those; they are making money from the fuel and taxes on the fuel. I think you realize that but I just wanted to make sure.

        Incidently, the Energy Department says that if you develop a new way to reduce energy consumption, they will give you a grant of up to $250,000 to get it on the market. That isn’t necessarily true. I read an article at least fifteen years ago now about a man who came up with a new carborator that would double your milage. The Energy Department not only refused to give him the grant but they also refused to allow him to build a plant and sell them in the US. They couldn’t afford the loss in fuel taxes his new carborator would have cost them. That’s what they told him, at least.

        • 45caliber

          Sorry, I meant NOT making money directly on the patents.

  • Commonsense

    As far as horse power is concerned, 53 hp might get you mileage and longevity in town or on small commutes, but the rocky mountain states needs more horses for the passes and in the winter that little honda civic can’t build enough heat to thaw out its’ wind shield. Actually, the more torque you have at and lower rpm is what will give you the fuel economy. Cummins put out a wonder boy of an engine in the 5.9 ltr diesel. I own one in a 1993 dodge one ton 4 door dually 4×4 truck. Down the highway at 70 to 75 without my horsetrailer on I get 23 to 24 miles to the gallon. with three horses and all my gear I get 14. You will find by averaging in weight, inertia, windshear, that my dodge is more fuel efficient than the honda civic. If people want to save gas on their commutes, buy a motorcycle, it’s just as cold as riding in a civic but better mileage. What would help save gas is people in cities who have access to public transportation but still drive. That is what really gets me to wondering.

    • Les

      I had a 1959 bug when i was in Germany in 1972. It went everywhere with a 1300cc engine and got great gas milage. The whole car weight 1200 pounds. I solved the heating issue by completely bypassing the factory setting. In the dead of winter the car put out so much heat I turned the drivers side completely off. I switched the car to synthetic (Mobil 1, zero weight) and picked up 5 miles to the gallon. The only reason I let it go because it was impossible to get a European car past the American “safety requirements”. I learned years ago that anything the people government do is to protect their friend’s businesses here in the states. It’s not about clean air, safety,etc. Trace it out and you find some scummy deal at the end of it all. Stop blaming government as if it is an all consuming entity, it’s made up of people that all have agendas and friends that have needs. And never forget that the fiefdoms need to grow every year. not one of these “organizations” has ever downsized. Hear that sound? It’s the collapse of Rome.

      • Aix Sponsa

        Sorry man. With all due respect your memory has failed you after 40 years. Mobil 1 didn’t exist, and old bugs were heavier. Sure there were a few here that got 34 if conditions were just right, but mostly they all got 24 on the highway. I had several friends’ parents that had them. Of course, most US cars got 15, 18 if you had a 6 cyl.

  • MaryLovesGod

    Hey Mitchell! I love my 2001 Honda Civic! It’s really great in snow – do you know of a vehicle that does well in 2 feet of snow!!It’s got 221,000 miles on it and have yet to spend a ton of money on repairs! I was a die hard Chevy American made owner for years until I purchased my preowned Honda Civic and now I won’t get any other! And it does well on gas too! For me a car is for getting me from point A to point B – it doesn’t have to be the latest model.

  • Wayne

    I’ll tell you what; you drive what you want and I’ll drive what I want. I have been driving a 4X4 for 41 years and will continue to do so. I work hard to make sure I can buy a new truck evey 4 years or so and to pay for the gas. You can drive all the Honda’s and brag about your gas savings and I’ll be off roading and loving it.

  • Jesse K

    I drove a Honda Civic in 1974, and still have one today, an ’89 model Wagon. My daughter has an ’88 4-door Civic, and my wife has an Odyssey van for family trips. Our best example of efficiency was the 80′s and 90′s Honda models, which got tremendous mileage, both fuel and total life service. I’ve had Hondas go past 300,000 miles still running great, but the lesson of this technology was lost on Roger Smith, whose “Disposable Chevrolet” drove the Detroit products into bankruptcy. 50′s Chevrolets were as good as the metallurgy allowed, but Roger’s attempts to save a nickle an engine ruined the best products Detroit made. The ridiculous Vega made a faint attempt to emulate Japanese success, but, again the “save a nickle” concept doomed the Vega with sub-par engines. Ford has kept up with Japanese developments, and as a result has some competitive models today. By the way, everything the Japanese use to build their superior cars was originally developed in the US, but the Japanese worked out how to perfect the processes because they are a hard-working, single minded, competitive people, unlike the whiny, lazy slugs we have become.

    • 45caliber

      Back in 1968, I drove a Ford Galaxy – one of the biggest cars on the road. It had the biggest engine Ford put out. I still got 25 mpg in the cities and 27 on the highway. It weighed three times what any car today weighs and would get 27 mpg at 210 mph on the freeway.

      A friend had a Trihumph. It got 75 mpg – and could still do over a 100 mph on the highway.

      Can you name any car that can get that milage today? I can’t. Even the Prius gets only about 50 mpg and most small cars will get at least 35 mpg without the “alternate” system.

      I can remember reading about several other cars during that time. One heavy car (as big as the one I drove) got 87 mpg. (Gulf Oil and General Motors bought them out.) A car that used a two cylinder engine simply to run several generators for its electric motor got over 150 mpg. (It was bought out too.) A boy in college converted a VW Bug to electric and was paid $5 million by General Motors for it. A friend test drove an electric car that used 6 car batteries and was recharged at night from her house currect. It got at least 65 mph in hills and had over a 300 mile range – something the auto industry says is impossible today. GM bought that company out too.

      In fact, our mpg ratio on engines has gone DOWN since that time. Basically all changes that would allow better milage has been bought up by the auto or oil companies and any attempts to do it now result in patent infringements so they can sue you for trying.

      Ever wonder why? Consider the fuel taxes the government collects – and how the money would go down if we increased our milage.

      • octagenarian 3

        Dear 45 caliber

        Please provide some form of proof that an electric car can get more than about 100 miles per “fill-up”, and some evidence for the existence of a patent to this possibility. Electric cars have been around in one form or another for about 100 years. Their mileage capability has not increased, despite the recent intorduction of high-tech batteries including the newly introduced lithium-ion battery. A maximum range of about 100 miles has prevailed over this entire time.

        Note, please, that Priuses run on exclusively electric power at speeds of 35 mph and lower, on level roadway. for as long as the battery holds out. WHICH IS ABOUT THREE MILES OR SO! Its high gas mileage is a combination of its anemic 98 hp gasoline engine, CVT technology, and more minor things like tires at 35 psi and very low drag coefficient. Electric cars that get 100 miles per charge have sisnificantly larger batteries than what is in the Prius.

        Finally, to all who are writing, the privilege of owning the vehicle you desire is under fire from the socialist establlishent in power. So are all of the other freedoms we still enjoy. I fully agree that if we face another 6 years under BHO, that we may no longer ever see our freedoms return. That is the sad part of this whole debate over personal vehicles.

        For the record, my 1968 Plymouth with a V-8 engine and stick shift provided 14+ mpg overallin the four years I owned it. The ’72 Plymouth, with 3-speed automatic delivered 13+ mpg in its eight years. I marrvel at what people say they got in mpg from equivalent cars of that era.

        Finally, a person who buys a Prius to save money at the pump is delusional. My 1997 V-6 midsize sedan with 200 hp averaged 25.7 mpg in the eight years I owned it. If one allows 50 mpg for a Prius, breakeven for saved gasoline, at $4/gallon, occurs in a mere EIGHT YEARS!

        Happy driving!

        • 45caliber

          Sorry, I can’t prove it on the electric car. But I did ride in it. Great car. It was in 1970 or so. The car was a test car that a friend drove for the company. She was selected since she drove a 55 mile paper route every day. At night she would plug the car into her electricity (110v) in her garage. They put a meter on the use so they could tell how much it cost her to drive it. She paid an additional $12.50 a month in electricity to keep it charged. It used 6 standard car batteries (she used Sears Diehards) that she had to change out once a year. They were in a drawer under the car that pulled out to the side. She kept her speed up despite the hills (the Ozark Mountains in Arkansas) and drove it from Dover, AR, to Little Rock once a month to take her husband to the VA hospital there for checkups. That was about 90 miles one way. She never ran out of power and never had to recharge.

          She drove it for two years. When they came back to pick up the car, she asked to buy it or a new one just like it. They told her they couldn’t do it; the company had been bought out by GM.

          That is one reason I laugh when they insist they have to have special batteries and can’t go more than 50 miles on a charge or get more than 45 miles per hour.

          I read of another who put a small (10 hp or so) lawmower engine in his car. It was hooked to four or five generators/alternators. I don’t remember for sure. But they simply provided power to some normal car batteries that powered an electric motor. He stated that he got about 150 miles per gallon on the small engine.

        • 45caliber

          Another thing that might be of interest to you.

          I’m a mechanical engineer and deal a lot with moving equipment (rotating equipment, we call it). Our equipment has about .002″ tolerance between moving parts and we use anti-friction bearings.

          A car has about .02″ of tolerance (ten times as much) and they use babbit bearings in the motors with extra light duty bearings in the wheels and other parts.

          Back in 1967 an owner of a machine shop/foundry in California decided that if they could build a train engine that could get a million miles, they should be able to build a car that could. He bought a new car, took it apart, and then rebuilt it. I read about it in the Army Times. He would guarantee his new car for 250,000 miles and it cost $4,500 ($3000 was standard for a car then). He also got 87 miles per gallon for gas to his surprise since he wasn’t trying to improve milage. That was due to his tightening up the tolerances to machine shop standards (.002″) and using the anti-friction bearings (heavy duty ones). He took the reporter out for a run. At fifty miles per hour, he shut off the engine. They rolled five miles before it stopped.

          GM and Gulf Oil jointly bought him out.

          • Eddie47d

            That guy probably thought he was doing the right thing but didn’t realize GM and Gulf were actually shutting him down.

          • Pete

            Great post 45caliber !

  • Wild Bill

    1961 Corvairs got 30 mpg
    1974 VW diesels got 50 mpg
    My 1996 3/4 ton Dodge (w/ a Cummins & 5 spd man) gets 25 mpg even on biodiesel

    And today car makers are PROUD of cracking 30 mpg in their economy cars!
    What a load of crap! Even VW doesn’t push their 45+ mpg diesels that they sell. Evidently it would embarrass other car makers into improving their CAFE numbers.

    There are solutions that exist NOW while the technology for electric cars becomes viable.

  • http://personallibertyy.com Rusty

    Ford and GM are in business to make a profit. Unlike GM, Ford actually has to pay taxes. They need to make high profit cars that have a market. Boring cars don’t sell at high profits like SUV, pickups, hot rods, etc. Try to get a discount on that 800HP Mustang. Ask about the waiting list.

    The customer has the buying power. The customer is in control, right or wrong.

    Oil is used for many things other than energy. We are not going to reduce our use. We are going to continue to find better ways to use this magic stuff. Cleaner, more efficient mandates translate into required new models and planned obsolescence of equipment that has not filled its life, waste. It wastes the consumer’s money and drives up prices with taxes. Guess who wins.

    So next time you are in your hybrid doing 70MPH on the highway and there is a 1999 F250 4 door 4WD diesel pickup with 5 adults in it next to you, think about this. His truck is paid for. He has room for everything including the camping gear still in the bed from last year. His AC is on and working. He can pull his boat to the gas pump, Ha! He is getting better than 20MPG. So who is the smart one? I need to find a brad new 1999 F250.

    We have been running out of oil from the first day we found it. We keep finding more but are still going to run out even though we are still looking and find more. I guess this works like government spending.

    $5, $7, or $10 will not change the habits. It did not work for smoking.

    • http://! Angel Wannabe

      Right On Rusty, there is way to much of lives tied up in oil, they aren’t gonna stop it and switch to wind power or Bio Fuels tommorrow, simply because they can’t. The super powers know, that we know it!

      So the elites lies continue….

    • 45caliber

      Rusty:

      The really big problem with using oil for fuel is that the government doesn’t want us to find a way to make it more efficient as a fuel. They tax it. If we came up with a way to double the fuel mileage, we would buy half as much fuel and the taxes they collect would be cut in half too. They don’t want to lose that money.

      At present only 15% of gasoline is used for power. Only the vapor is used. The rest, in tiny droplets, is burned in your exhaust system. The catalytic converter was added to insure all was burned. If we increased that power usuage to 30% we could cut our gasoline use in half and still get the same milage.

      Tax is the real reason we can’t use alternate fuels on the roads. An electric car would be recharged at your house – and if they tried to increase the taxes on your home electricity to the point of insuring they got the same taxes for the electricty as they do for gasoline they would have a revolt by even the liberals.

      What they are presently working on is a new “road tax”. They would tax you on the miles you rack up. (And they would keep the fuel tax as well.) The road tax would then make it easier to improve fuel milage since they would be still getting most of what they want.

      • Dan az

        Hey 45
        I couldn’t agree more.The fact that they stopped people from making and selling there own fuel from waste oil that they picked up from restaurants just show’s that need for taxes, they demanded 1 dollar per gal and a ton of paper work.Or go to jail!
        If they wanted to cut off the grid how better to control the masses when there will be know way to plug your car in!

  • Shirjay

    I only have two questions: 1. When we use up our oil reserves after drilling, shaleing, etc. where do we go for more?

    2. Does anyone know why Obama is so dead set on high speed rail improvement? Perhaps his plan to ‘change America’ includes having us all to move near rail lines, live in ghettos near these lines, be easily accessible to ‘control’ because we would be totally dependent on the government for our subsistence. You all know, of course, that our government has been buying up large chunks of land for many years, wonder why. We need to answer these questions and stop being so ‘trusting’!!!

    • 45caliber

      Shirjay:

      I’m not worried about using up all our oil any time soon. They keep finding more of it all the time. The US is better searched than any of the rest of the world and we are still finding vast amounts here. We are researching many differnt energy sources now. At least one will come up as a good method before we run out of oil.

      As for the high speed train system: Europe, Japan, etc. have them so Oblama is certain we need one too. However, as an engineer I’ve inspected tracks. I promise you, no one would want to ride on what is there is you look it over. I’m surprised that the trains on it now don’t derail daily. The railroad companies were bailed out by the government about 35-40 years ago after their tracks got into bad repair. They expect the government to do it again so they haven’t worried about maintenance of the track system since. I DEFINATELY wouldn’t want to ride fast on one of them!

    • Carlucci

      Yes. Fedzilla wants everyone to live in the cities in housing (apartment buildings)that will pack us all in like sardines. Everyone will have to walk, ride a bicycle, or take public transportation, as only the truly wealthy (i.e., “them”) will have access to cars. It is my understanding that they will accomplish this by “regulating” the kinds of homes we live in now. If your home is over twenty years old, you will be fined for all kinds of no-nos like “inefficient” air conditioners, furnaces, appliances, water heaters, etc.

      The only hope we have is that the states will get sick of this and nullify everything, like they have nullified federal law in California and sell medical marijuana.

      • Thamera

        yep yep yep!

      • 45caliber

        Carlucci:

        One reason they want to put everyone into apartments came out during Clinton’s time. If they want to enter your house they have to provide a search warrant, even if you rent it. But if you live in an apartment, the government considers the manager a representative of the owner on site – so they can get HIS/HER permission to enter your home without a search warrant. The SCOTUS said that wasn’t true but Clinton had the law changed – plus they now have a clause in most apartment rental agreements that states that the manager can enter your apartment at any time without your permission. If he happens to have a couple of cops with him …

        • Carlucci

          45, I was not aware of that on the apartment thing. I’m guessing it applies to the big property management companies.

          I think Kate8 posted this link on Agenda 21 weeks ago, but if everyone would like to see an example of the “housing” that is planned, it is a short video. Personally, I think the “housing” looks evil and haunted, but hey – look who is at the helm of the idea:

          Pack ‘em and stack ‘em, —- like we’re all a bunch of sardines…

          Adios home building industry, real estate industry, auto industry, private farming, etc.

          Note what they say about “educated people” (wasn’t that the philosophy of the Khmer Rouge?)

          Please share with your email list:

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzEEgtOFFlM

          • 45caliber

            Carlucci:

            It applies to most small apartment complexes too. The manager has the right to enter without your permission. Supposedly to insure you are keeping the place clean and free of roaches or other things. Ever so often I’ll hear of a case. Not long ago I read about one where a manager had the habit of checking on his female renters when they didn’t know he was coming over. Like when they were in the shower …

          • Carlucci

            Okay – I finally found an illustration of the “dense apartment housing clusters” from Agenda 21. It is featured about two minutes into the video. Now, does that look like something out of a horror movie, or what?

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8YCLzlpDlw&feature=related

          • Carlucci

            45 – I wonder if it also applies to private landlords? People who own and manage their own property…

          • 45caliber

            Only apartment complexes. Not the houses.

  • bob wire

    All good points Mr. Livingston and well offered.

    My guess, ~ Supply and Demand and a buyer market.

    Americans are greatly fickle and there is so many different Americans occupying different stations in the American Experience.

    As drivers, we compete for space and dominance on our highways with larger autos and tractor trailer rigs. If you are small, being nimble and mighty is always desired.

    The best of both worlds is large and mighty, there being little substitute for shear mass and power.

    While I enjoy watching a bird in it’s attempt to capture a tiny butterfly and how the tiny seems to eludes it’s capture with easy. We all know that it’s not always so.

    Rrrrrummmm !

    The thought of “having” to walk 5 miles is the only thing that would put me on a Vespa and be potential road kill.

  • Captain Mike

    1. Ethanol happend – it’s for DRINKING not DRIVING.
    2. Sorry John – you sound like the smallest engine you can buy now is a V8. Small cars and small engines are – and have been – readily available. If free market economics has allowered the stupid to overspend on their cars the way they did on their houses, the free market will take care of that too. What would you rather? Obama telling us what we can own and drive? IT’s almost that bad already.

  • Tired Of Washington

    In one word I can tell you exactly what is wrong with America:

    OBAMA

  • 45caliber

    I once got a laugh at a cousin of my wife’s. He had just bought an Impala and was showing it off at a family get-together. I overheard him talking to another about it.

    He stated that he had really liked another car better than this one but this one had 3 more HP than the other car did.

    As if that would make any real difference.

    • bob wire

      Trashed for 3 HP.? and little Knowledge can be very deceiving and harmful.

  • DaveH

    Imagine the gas savings, John, if we never went to the theater, or if we never took vacations, just hang around home on our weekends and holidays. And we could get rid of those energy-wasting dishwashers and clothes washers, go back to doing it by hand like our ancestors did (like many around the world still do). We could turn our thermostats down to 50 deg. also in the winter, and up to 100 deg. in the summer. Think of all the energy we could save!
    It’s called Choice, John, something the Socialists don’t understand. We used to have that before Big Government started spending 40% of our GDP.
    What I’d like to know, John, is why you are on the PersonalLiberty staff, when you seem to be more of a Big Government type?

    • Bitter Libertarian

      And instead of US arguing between each other for the “inequality” issue of my engine uses more gas then yours..how about those HUMMERS the US ARMY uses? How about all teh JET travel the politicians use? Lets put their A$$ in buses or trains, or Ford Fiesta’s instead of the Gas Guzzling LIMO’s & jets they use? How about Holly wood & all those pretty orange explosions for the movies? Thats FUEL they are using! How about we all use Metal roofs instead of Asphalt Shingles! Metal is 100% recycleable..Shingles are not(yet). How about school districts be allowed to Budget their buses by “RIDERSHIP” and not “every child enrolled gets a seat?” FILL up the buses! How about the Athletic Trips thaty use up Fuel get cut to local matches…How about manufactures allowing synthetic Oils (which are good for 25,000 mile plus)…be integrated into the warranty instead of the conventional INFERIOR junk! How about AMERICANS getting the actual SERVICE LIFE of things instead of throwing them out because they are “dated”….etc….

      • 45caliber

        Bitter:

        I agree with most of what you said but thought I’d clear up one thing.

        You suggeted using synthetic oil because it lasts longer. The problem is not the lubrication of the oil; it is the dirt that gets into the oil.

        I once ran a test of synthetic oil for an oil manufacturer on company vehicles since he wanted to sell us the sythetic oil. He would come in, take a sample of the oil from the vehicles and send it off to his lab for testing – and they would tell him it was bad, to change it.

        It got down to 500 miles and it was the same thing. He got a little excited since he wanted to sell it to us but they were telling him it was bad at 500 miles. So he wanted to know why.

        They told him that the paper air filters we presently use have too many microscopic holes through them at 500 miles, which allows dirt to enter the engine and get into the oil. That is the problem with ANY oil including the regular oil.

        We once used oil-bath air filters. Semis still do. I once had one. You would add 1 qt. of oil once a year. The air would be pulled through the oil up into a strainer where it was trapped. I could drive 10,000 miles on an oil change and have trouble seeing the oil on my dip stick because it was so clean. But the government passed a law banning those on private autos because “it burned 1/2 quart of oil a year and that is too much pollution.” When you consider a worn engine can burn a quart a week, I couldn’t see their reasoning.

        However, ninety percent of your wear occurs in the first 1 minute after starting your engine since the oil has drained off the moving parts and hasn’t gotten back up there again. Using a molebdium disulfide additive will eliminate that wear since it plates out on the engine. I ran it in a pickup I had – after 250,000 miles, you STILL couldn’t see the oil on the dip stick and it was still running smooth. Southwest Petroleum was the only company I found that sold the good stuff. I have no contact for them now.

        If you change your AIR filter every time you change oil (at 3000 miles) AND use the additive, it is likely you can get your engine to last for three or four times as long as it normally will. But the car manufacturers don’t like that …

        • Bitter Libertarian

          I agree 100% with everything. I would defend the synthetics ability to do a better job though. The Origins of the oil I use (Amsoil) was from the Air Force Officer who founded the company because he believed that using the oil the Jets use would provide superior lubrication. Once his testing proved his “belief” correct he started the company. My understanding of the synthetic advantage is that the molecules of the synthetic are all same size, providing a sort of “liquid ball bearing surface” therefore extremely unlikely to fail in the “oil wedge” between bearing surfaces under extreme pressure. I would also tend to believe that the oil is much more resiliant then conventional therefore lasting longer.
          I know when I shifted my 1970 from Conventional oils & lobes in the rears & tranny’s to Synthetic, that I gained fuel milage and performance. So I do believe in them for thats worth. lol

          • 45caliber

            BL:

            Synthetic is fine – as long as you can keep it clean. It coats the engine and doesn’t run off as fast as hot oil.

            But the moly is actually a dry lube. It was developed by NASA to lube space shuttles since oil will disappear rather quickly in a vacuum. It is microscopic and plates out on moving parts. If you blow up a surface, no matter how polished, enough you will start to see valleys and craters. The moly fills those and smooths things out. As a result it stays there when the oil drains off when you park. It lasts longer than it takes to get oil back to these parts and then is replaced by what is still in the oil. It works in synthetic oil too. I continue to stand by it for whatever you use.

            One thing though. Not all moly is alike. Most of what you get at a parts store will settle out in the oil pan over time. The additive you get from Southwest Petroleum doesn’t settle as fast. Keep that in mind.

            Incidently, on one of my trials of this product, we had a gear reducer that was overheating (up to 300 F). I added 10% of moly to this – and it immediately dropped the temp to the normal temperature – and it reduced the power needed to run the unit to normal levels as well. Two weeks later when we could afford to change the system, it was still working fine.

  • David Armstrong

    A local town newspaper ran a story last week entitled “Europeans get 70 mgp—why not us?” Very interesting story. I would give me left you know what for a Ford Fiesta ECOnetic to be available in the US.76mpg, yep, sign me up.

    • 45caliber

      It’s because of all the pollution equipment that our government requires be put on our cars. That is what is really holding down the milage. That and oil company and government greed.

  • Polski

    I was born in Detroit in 1935. I was raised there and in Dearborn. Even when I was a little kid the people of Detroit asked for cars that had reasonable gas mileage. And you all have probably read about the carburetors that produced 100 miles to a gallon, and were bought out by the auto manufacturers/oil companies or the inventor “mysteriously” “disappeared”.

    But the bottom line is that we common folk were completely ignored by the auto manufacturers and they continued to put out the “gas pigs”. That’s really why the auto industry has gone bankrupt. Look how many years they’ve been doing this. And then people wonder why a lot of folks buy Japanese or German.

    • 45caliber

      True. But trust our government. They are doing whatever they can to insure that the foreign cars don’t get much better milage here too.

  • Polski

    You know that plastics are made with oil. And yes, NO ONE knows how much oil is still left.

    • 45caliber

      True, we don’t. BUT … it is a LOT more than it was ten years ago. I personally would like to see all oil saved for plastics but until someone comes up with a viable and economic way to provide energy by another method, we are stuck with oil. And stopping the use of it isn’t going to get us a new energy source any faster. If anything it will slow it down since you can’t transport people and equipment without it.

  • Dave Carr

    Great article! I couldn’t agree more. I’ve always driven small fuel efficient cars, even when gas was cheap and plentiful. I never could see the logic in having a 3 or 4 thousand pound vehicle to move around a 170 pound man. I could see if someone has a huge family, but the majority of the mastadons I see on the road, have a single driver in them. It just seems rather piggish to me and only serves to add to the coffers of the oil companies, create more pollution, diminishes our oil reserves and sends more money to the very people who hate us.

    • Bitter Libertarian

      Dang Freedom..should be more regulated…better yet..lets pass a bill to make it LAW that every person who is a PIG and uses more then their “fair share” has to pay for the extra Fuel they use…stupid freedoms..they need to go, How dare they!

      • Aix Sponsa

        Are you implying that free gas is not being provided by the big zero?

        • Bitter Libertarian

          Thats Right! My Truck wont run on HOT AIR or BS! LOL

          • 45caliber

            If we could invent something that could run on hot air or bs, just think … we would be able to power the US on what comes out of Washington alone.

          • Bitter Libertarian

            Yeppers and the Political Conventions! We could store that and fill a strategic reserve for years!

          • bob wire

            Hmm? as I understand it Bull $hit is a very reclaimable fuel.

            but ~ I suppose that is for another thread.

    • 45caliber

      Dave Carr:

      I drive a pickup to work and get about 18 mpg. I could drive a car like my wife’s and get 30+ BUT … I cannot afford to have both a car and a pickup. And I NEED that pickup to haul things on a regular basis.

      My son has a four door pickup which gets about 15 mpg. But he has two kids to haul about as well as his wife. And they want to haul my wife and I as well when we visit (about monthly) so we dont’ have to take two cars when we go somewhere. So many times when he goes to work on a daily basis he is alone in it.

      Most other people are the same. They have a good reason to have the bigger vehicle although you may normally see them driving it alone. So don’t insist they drive that big vehicle just because they don’t care about their milage or want to do the right thing. It’s because they need it some of the time and can’t afford a second vehicle for the rest of the time.

  • M.D.

    Nicely said. Oil is here now and more efficiency is just sane common sense –in the short term– while alternatives get developed for down the line. One or the other is nuts.
    So what I am saying is I think a blend of yours and Obama’s ideas make the most sense. Don’t agree? Cool. As long as I am ticking off both Liberals and Conservatives I know I’m on the right track. :)

    • Eddie47d

      Excellent David and M.D.

  • http://na Bill Heath

    Our own government agencies document the existence of what is called the Bakken, or Baken oil field located in the our own lower 48, which makes this whole oil argument null and void. Just this one oil field holds more oil than ALL of the major oil producing countries COMBINED!
    Conservative estimates show that out of this single oil field, we can expect 2,300 YEARS of enough oil production, to run the entire united States! This oil is such a high grade that it only costs $16 PER BARREL!. So, When I see people forking out $4 per gallon at the gas station, I don’t wonder about what they have under the hood, I wonder about the hoods we have in WASHINGTON!!!
    By the way…this is all true. Check it out at the link below!!!
    GOOGLE it, or follow this link. Armed with the facts you can change the world..

    http://www.usgs.gov/newsroom/article.asp?ID=1911

    http://www.usgs.gov/newsroom/article.asp?ID=1911

    Look for new leadership. A president and surrounding staff who will promise to uncap the wells; drill where we already have proven reserves; guarantee to make our nation totally energy independent; fast track the building of new, modern refineries and nuclear power polants ; a president who will use this hidden wealth to pay off the national debt and provide industrial jobs once again.

    Look for leaders who will honor the Constitution rather than some globalist agenda. We can take our country back again.

    • 45caliber

      Two problems with this: First, it costs $16 a barrel since it costs the same overseas to drill and pump. It’s just that their governments charge for it there and ours doesn’t. But the oil company profits are based on price at the well head – 10% profit per stage of development. So the companies don’t want cheap oil – they get less profits.

      And second, I believe that all the US oil has been sold or promised to China by our present government if they will continue to loan us money and don’t try to call in the loans our government has with them.

  • Bitter Libertarian

    Damn Thing Called FREEDOM..works just fine until there is a shortage of something then the freedom grabbers come out of the woodwork to regulate-legislate & manipulate the laws to ensure some knid of ZEN BS state of equality to ensure everyone gets their “fair share”. Then the problem arises in DECIDING what a persons fair share is…then some yahoo brings morality into the issue so the people who can afford the higher prices and continue to consure the scarce item are villified, labeled and all blame falls on their head. All because of FREEDOM of CHOICE.

    Oh thats righ..were a ‘civilized’ society…hums are “evolving” and everyone should be treated equally and why doe she have the “right” to own an SUV and I am saving the planet driving my POS smart car?

    I live in CT, where the cheapest I found gas locally is about 4.17/gal. Our family has 5 vehicles ranging from 55MPG (The Harley) to 17mpg (70 C/20 4 x 4 pickup.) We chose to work locally years ago and avoid the long commutes sacrificing a bigger paycheck because we like life away from work. We shop online for items, go grocery shopping every other week on the Subbase. Our monthly fuel bill fluctuates because I’ll drive my Harley more in good weather and my Blazer in poor..Annually our Fuel Bill is less then 2% of our combined Wages.

    From the time I was 18 I knew that I had no control over the prices of anything I couldnt produce myself, or do myself. I worked my life around that, and if Gas was to hit 15.00/gal I would continue to drive as I do now. I will NOT buy a new vehicle because as I see it, the longer I keep it, the more I recycle it. I dont care about status, or fashion, and do all my own work (except exhaust systems I take it to a specialist). I am nothing but someone who chooses to be as independent as possible.

    If someone tells me I cant have my paid for, reliable vehicles I will not simply be upset, I will fight because as bad as some may thnk they are…they are recycled.

    The average Barrel of Oil per vehicle today is over 400! Remember cash for clunkers? That was a HUGE wast of Vehicles with service life left in them. Each one that was destroyed, WASTED the remaining service life, and wasted OIL in a SCALE that was truel disgusting.

    • Bitter Libertarian

      One Thing I’d Like to add..I use AMSOIL in all my gasoline engines & vehicles..100% pure synthetic. I change my oil every 25,000 miles or LONGER and filters about every 6 months. My Blazer has over 300,000 m iles on the engine with NO REBUILD and I used AMSOIL after the break-in of 10kmiles. Its Oil has been changed 4 times! Runs & pulls great when needed, oil pressure , compression, & vacuum is perfect.

      Jiffy Lube, change your OIL every 2500 miles? WASTE of MONEY & OIL. Waste of resources…

      • Aix Sponsa

        amen

      • Thamera

        good to know BL

      • jibbs

        Bitter Libertarian says:

        One Thing I’d Like to add..I use AMSOIL in all my gasoline engines & vehicles..100% pure synthetic. I change my oil every 25,000 miles or LONGER and filters about every 6 months. My Blazer has over 300,000 m iles on the engine with NO REBUILD and I used AMSOIL after the break-in of 10kmiles. Its Oil has been changed 4 times! Runs & pulls great when needed, oil pressure , compression, & vacuum is perfect.

        Jiffy Lube, change your OIL every 2500 miles? WASTE of MONEY & OIL. Waste of resources…
        **********************************************************************
        You may want to send a sample to Blackstone Labs for testing. I would want to be sure that it’s working, and not going by how many miles you have. It’s worth $25.00 for piece of mind. I test my diesel twice a year…204,000 plus miles
        http://www.blackstone-labs.com/free-test-kits.php

      • jibbs

        You changed oil four times in the last 300,000 miles. I don’t recall their oil being good for 75,000 miles. There website recommends every 25,000 or 12 months, and 15,000 under harsher conditions

        • Bitter Libertarian

          I did have the oil sampled twice. Each time it was perfect, the lab didnt even recommend changing it.

    • 45caliber

      Bitter: and one way to insure there is a shortage is to create a “crisis” …

      • Bitter Libertarian

        Absolutely! Theres more profit in crisis then the boring routine!

  • rural dweller

    I drive a 2008 ford explorer, midsize suv, 4 wheel drive, seats 7.
    This vehicle is most practical. It’s small enough so that I
    can enter the tight curve of some drive-throughs but large enough
    to buy a waterheater and bring it home, take my very large labradour
    to the vet and tow a 32ft tritoon boat. I average 22 mpg and I can
    cut down on my trips to save on gas. But at least I have a vehicle
    that can do more than one thing.

    I live in a rural area that floods, snows, and has high winds. Try
    driving a light weight prius here. lol

  • Mike

    Saving money at the pump is nice but probably doesn’t help much when your little car fails to protect you in an accident. That being said, SUVs make all the sense in the world. You are paying more to save your life.

    • M.D.

      Safe AND they are actually getting more fuel efficient. I just got into a new lease and the SUV I have (although I admit it’s small) gets 22-28 MPG. I know for a fact there SUVs that do even better.

  • Bitter Libertarian

    Bottom Line: Each persons means are unique to them…Do not live beyond your means, and dont be all boo-hooey because you cant live up to MY means, or vice-versa!

  • http://Illinois'17th Old Henry

    John:

    Good article – it brought back some memories. I remember gas going from 39 cents a gallon to 55, then 60 and then pushing 70 cents a gallon.

    I had a 1970 Ford Torino convertible with the 351 4V Cleavland rated at 300 hp and got 17.5 MPG at 70 mph – if I kept my foot out of it – which I raely did. There was just something about hearing that 4 barrel kicking in and the “poorly muffled” dual exhaust.

    Americans have always had a love affair with cars, and horsepower. It is part of our persona as a country.

    When you stated we have elected poor candidates over and over you nailed it. Those same dirt-bag politicians are the ones who created the facsist EPA that Little Barry the communist in OUR White House is using to shut down our nation’s energy production. We have more oil than the ME and should be accessing it – NOW.

    You state: “My question is: Why don’t we improve our economic prospects by returning to tried-and-true technologies (like fuel-efficient cars) while exploring and developing America’s own fossil fuel reserves, especially those offshore and in Alaska”?

    Basically because that is not what the Communist-In-Chief has in mind for our contry. Remember, he promised the electorate to “fundamentally change the United States” and the idiots in the country voted for it.

    • 45caliber

      One real problem is the differences in different parts of the country.

      Take NYC for instance. Most people who live there don’t even own a car. They have excellent public transportation and can get about freely without one. And they seldom live more than ten miles from where they work.

      Now consider here in Texas. It isn’t uncommon for many of us to have to drive to work over 50 miles one way every day. There is NO public transportation, since this is country living, not city. There usually isn’t enough people going the same way to car pool either. We don’t even give distance by miles down here most of the time; we give it by time. “I live an hour from Houston.” “I drive 45 minutes to work.”

      But those in Washington can’t understand why those of us in Texas and other rural areas need a vehicle since they don’t need one there.

  • Big Charlie

    The other shoe that hasn’t dropped yet is the USGS’ own surveys showing that not only is the USA sitting on a lake of oil, but we’re sitting on an ocean of recoverable natural gas – trillions of cubic ft. of the stuff. We already get most of our plastics from refined natural gas, not crude like we used to. Natural gas makes a really great motor fuel that runs a lot cleaner than gasoline or diesel. Gasoline costs mere pennies in the mideast. We could pay the same to fill up our cars with natural gas. All this being said, with the natural resources at our disposal, there’s not a good reason for us to switch to super lightweight microcars that get crushed like tin cans the first time you look at them funny.

    I love my 2001 Chevy Tahoe because at 6’6″ tall and broad of shoulder, I fit comfortably in it, and because it has taken several pretty stout hits to the solid steel bumpers with hardly a scratch. It may only get 18mpg, but I feel great about putting my family in it for road trips. Oh…and it’s paid for. I can’t say that about any of these new super pricey efficiency cars.

    • 45caliber

      I agree about the safety of bigger vehicles. Not long ago there was a wreck in front of our house. A man was driving a pickup, following his wife in a small car with their kids. A drunk going the other way missed the wife but hit the pickup head on. The man went to the hospital but the police told him that if the drunk had hit his wife’s car, he’d have lost his entire family.

      Now some idiot in the state legislature wants to ban or at least put a special tax on all larger vehicles. He said it wasn’t “fair” that the owner of the larger vehicle had far less damage in a collison than the owner of a small vehicle. “All damage should be the same and cost the same for both owners.”

  • John Myers

    Dear Old Henry,
    The ’70 Ford Torino was a great car! Thanks for sharing.
    One last thing friends, everyone has the right to buy what they want. What bugs me is that when people buy Hummers to drive around shopping and then they complain when they have to fill them up.

    • Aix Sponsa

      Right John. I am reminded of a friend several years ago who was planning a 300 mile round trip to spend several days and $300 for a weekend family vacation. He was cancelling his trip because gas went up $.12 gallon. When I pointed out to him that totaled only $2 more versus the $300…..he looked at me “like a cow looking at a new gate”. They went on their trip.

    • JeffH

      John Myers, excellant commentary. To me, it all boils down to something our governement and a lot of the American people haven’t realized or better yet, refused to realize, living within your means.

      • http://! Angel Wannabe

        Jeffh, Your so right!__we forgo a New Vehicle, to try and pay our house off. We found out a long time ago, some folks CAN have it ALL, We can’t, we know it, and it’s ok.

        Have a Great Night!__The old man’s already asleep, so Me and the remote’s got a Date!___Good Posts today!

  • Touche

    When I saw that you were Canadian it didn’t surprise me that this article would be nothing but liberal crap. What this country needs is good mass transit within the cities and from the suburbs to the cities so that people can go to work efficiently. I live in a rural area where I cannot exist without my pickup truck.I have a very large yard and only a truck will haul the bags of mulch or fertilizer or top soil that I use each year. An electric car won’t do that. And the few people I’ve seen driving their Priuses, hire a lawn service that brings that stuff in a 4×4 pickup truck hauling a trailer. So forget about stuffing this electric vehicle stuff down people’s throat. I haven’t seen an electric fourteen wheeler on the road yet and you probably won’t for a long while because when you have to move weight around, only petrol or diesel can do that.

    • 45caliber

      Touche:

      I agree that a good mass transit program would be of help. Or would it? They have spent billions in Houston to try to build up the mass transit program there. It costs about $100 a person to install it and give the passengers a ride after you figure in the installation costs. They SAY that it can average out over the life of the transit but it seems that every couple of years they are forced to spend another billion or so on an update. So where is the savings? Particularly since they still have energy costs. It also results in the riders spending about 30 minutes more each morning and evening riding instead of being home with their families. Is it really that good?

  • chuckb

    At a time when many Americans can barely afford Burger King and a movie, Obama boasts of spending a billion dollars on his re-election campaign. Questioned at a recent appearance about the spiraling fuel costs, Obama said, “Get used to it” – and with an insouciant grin and chortle, he told another person at the event, who complained about the effect high fuel prices were having on his family, to “get a more fuel-efficient car.”

    The Obamas behave as if they were sharecroppers living in a trailer and hit the Powerball, but instead of getting new tires for their trailer and a new pickup truck, they moved to Washington. And instead of making possum pie, with goats and chickens in the front yard, they’re spending and living large at taxpayer expense – opulent vacations, gala balls, resplendent dinners and exclusive command performances at the White House, grand date nights, golf, basketball, more golf, exclusive resorts and still more golf.

    Expensive, ill-fitting and ill-chosen wigs and fashions hardly befit the first lady of the United States. The Obamas have behaved in every way but presidential – which is why it’s so offensive when we hear Obama say, in order “to restore fiscal responsibility, we all need to share in the sacrifice – but we don’t have to sacrifice the America we believe in.”

    The American people have been sacrificing; it is he and his family who are behaving as if they’ve never had two nickels to rub together – and now, having hit the mother lode, they’re going to spend away their feelings of inadequacy at the taxpayers’ expense.

    Obama continues to exhibit behavior that, at best, can be described as mobocratic and, at worst, reveals a deeply damaged individual. In a February 2010 column, I asked, “Is Obama unraveling?” I wrote that it was beginning to appear the growing mistrust of him and contempt for his policies was beginning to have a destabilizing effect on him.

    At that time, I wrote that not having things go one’s way can be a bitter pill, but reasonable people don’t behave as he was behaving. He had insulted Republicans at their luncheon, where he had been an invited guest. I had speculated that was, in part, what had led him to falsely accuse Supreme Court justices before Congress, the nation and the world, during the 2010 State of the Union address.

    It appeared, at that time, as if he were “fraying around the emotional edges.” That behavior has not abated – it has become more pronounced. While addressing the nation, after being forced to explain the validity of his unilateral aggression with Libya, America witnessed a petulant individual scowling and scolding the public for daring to insist he explain his actions.

    But during an afternoon speech to address the budget/debt, he took his scornful, unstable despotic behavior to depths that should give the nation cause for concern. Displaying a dark psychopathy more representative of an episode of “The Tudors” television series, he invited Rep. Paul Ryan, R-Wis., to sit in the front row during his speech and then proceeded to berate both Ryan and Ryan’s budget-cutting plan. Even liberal Democrats were put off by the act. MSNBC’s Joe Scarborough questioned the sanity of Obama’s actions.

    Today, criticism is coming from all sides. A senior Democrat lawmaker said, “I have been very disappointed in [Obama], to the point where I’m embarrassed that I endorsed him. It’s so bad that some of us are thinking, is there some way we can replace him? How do you get rid of this guy?” (“Democrats’ Disgust with Obama,” The Daily Beast, April 15, 2011)

    Steve McCann wrote: Obama’s speech “was chock full of lies, deceit and crass fear-mongering. It must be said that [he] is the most dishonest, deceitful and mendacious person in a position of power I have ever witnessed”(“The Mendacity of Barack Obama,” AmericanThinker.com, April 15, 2011).

    McCann continued: “[His] performance was the culmination of four years of outright lies and narcissism that have been largely ignored by the media, including some in the conservative press and political class who are loath to call [him] what he is in the bluntest of terms: a liar and a fraud. That he relies on his skin color to intimidate, either outright or by insinuation [against] those who oppose his radical agenda only add to his audacity. It is apparent that he has gotten away with his character flaws his entire life, aided and abetted by sycophants around him. …”

    With these being among the kinder rebukes being directed at Obama, and with people becoming less intimidated by his willingness to use race as a bludgeon, with falling poll numbers in every meaningful category and an increasingly aggressive tea-party opposition – how much longer before he cracks completely?

    The coming months of political life are not going to be pleasant for Obama. Possessed by a self-perceived palatine mindset, that in his mind places him above criticism, how long before he cracks in public? Can America risk a man with a documented track record of lying and misrepresenting truth as a basic way of life, who is becoming increasingly more contumelious?

    Mychal Massie is chairman of the National Leadership Network of Black Conservatives-Project 21 – a conservative black think tank located in Washington, D.C. He was recognized as the 2008 Conservative Man of the Year by the Conservative Party of Suffolk County, N.Y. He is a nationally recognized political activist, pundit and columnist. He has appeared on Fox News Channel, CNN, MSNBC, C-SPAN, NBC, Comcast Cable and talk radio programming nationwide. A former self-employed business owner of more than 30 years, Massie can be followed at mychal-massie.com.

    ——————————————————————————–

    • Aix Sponsa

      Let’s face reality, please. I hate inflation and lost job also. But MOST Americans that cannot afford various parts of their lives, etc. are in that situation by their own personal choice. THEY made each of the collective decisions that put them into their specific situations. Now they want to complain and expect big government to do something about it. Did any of you spend money you could have invested? Buy a newer car just for ego’s sake? etc. Think about it. Life was YOUR CHOICE.

      • Bitter Libertarian

        I agree, God Forbid that anyone take responsibility for their Choices!!! The moochers, parasites and blame shifters need to go suck sewer gas……

    • Dan az

      Chuckb
      Excellent post!
      Bob Livingston I think you may have found another writer!

      • chuckb

        dan az, thank you, however, i didn’t write this piece, you will note at the end of the article, a foot note gives the name of the author, mychal massie, it came from net work daily news.

        • JeffH

          chuckb, very good article. Thanks for sharing Mychal Massie’s words.

    • 45caliber

      I agree with you. It certainly doesn’t make me feel better about paying more taxes and more for gasoline while he and his family PARTAY!

      Further, until Oblama, each First Lady had – at most – two aids. Michelle seems to have gone overboard. The last I heard, she has 40 – and the cheapest is paid over $100,000 a year. I wish I could make that much …

    • Carlucci

      WOW – !! That was some post, chuckb. I’m going to copy and paste it to my email list. Thank you!

  • Aix Sponsa

    My daughter in law drove a Geo convertible. After the 3 kids were born we put her in a Taurus. She hated it. Then she got t-boned with the kids in the car…. She hated her GrandMarquis that replaced the Taurus, but she was glad she didn’t have that Geo.

    • Thamera

      Currently I am driving what was meant for my daughter, a 1997 Nissan Sentra which gets about 33mpg on average…not bad and I am happy with it as a commuter car for around town. It took a few days to get used to the stick shift again (in high school I drove a Honda Civic just like the one in the picture which was also just fine) However, I am very glad I wasn’t in my daughter’s Nissan when I got T-boned in an intersection when a guy ran a red light at full speed (45 mph). It totaled my Impala which I loved. It was comfortable and had a lot of power and protected me from a much worse fate I am sure, had I been in a smaller car. As it was, 3 months of PT were enough to get me back on my feet. For that reason, my new drivers (14 1/2 in this state) drive my Toyota Landcruiser.

  • EverAfterPatrick

    Why didn’t the author of this article point out that obvious fact the graph showed…..in inflation adjusted dollars, the price of gasoline is practically unchanged since ’79?

    It shows that the high cost of gasoline is not caused by consumers choosing the vehicle of their choice (rather than the author’s), or the evil oil corporations but by the collapse of our dollar.

    This collapse is brought about by the policies of the government (and party affiliation doesn’t matter, adherence to Constitutional restrictions do)and the Fed Rserve Bank.

    • Raggs

      WOW!!! somebody that has a clue….. If you can convince the communist party media of this I would be even happier!

  • http://Verizon Bud G.

    I know one thing that hasn’t been discussed and that is the technology available in the 1960′s that was kept from the public simply because the auto industry and oil industry kept it from being introduced into the market. It was an engine that could produce up to 150 miles per gallon.
    I personally observed this engine on a stand in St. Louis, Missouri.

    Today, this administration and the speculators joined forces to drive the price of gas to $4.00 and may go even up further. A few weeks ago, OPEC and the Oil industry both said there is no shortage. It is no secret that President Obama wanted the price of gas to go to $4.00 or higher and the speculators are complicit in his desire for same.
    So, if you want to point fingers as to why gas prices are affecting the economy, look no further than the man in the White House and George Soros whose specialty is hedge funds speculation. He is playing games with the development of domestic resources by saying he has lifted the moratorium on oil drilling, yet denies new permits to do so. He isn’t exactly telling the truth just like his immigration speech where he said he is enforcing immigration and that there are only 11 million illegals in the U.S. We may have half that number or more in Florida alone and I know we don’t have the number that California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas have so it is a huge miscalculation.

    Consider the 5.6 billion dollars Florida paid in assistance to illegals in 2010 and that should tell you the problem is very real.

    • 45caliber

      I agree. See some of my comments above about other fuel saving things that have been kept off the market.

  • chuckb

    everafterpatrick, that probably has some effect of the price. the fact is, if we were using our own resources, i’m sure you would find the price of gas considerably lower. thank you mr. barry soetoro and the epa.

  • barry1817

    I have had 5 hondas in the last 6 years. 4 totaled while driving them, so I guess I can be very thankful that I am typing this.

    Honda has proven to me to be very safe in collisions, gets great fuel efficiency.

    What I resent in this gasoline/mileage/price situation is that you know exactly what the news will do. A little hang wringing that the prices are increasing, a story with a person that has a large vehicle that costs an arm and a leg to fill up, and a site to go to where they will try to tell you where you can buy gas for a couple pennies less than other stations.

    Have yet to see any news story, by the media that speaks of lack of drilling, dependence on others, and the green earth people that want to stop the use of gas.

    And they will also not report that our president wants to loan money to Brazil, money that we don’t have so that they can drill and that we can become their best customers. Or that he is asking OPEC to open the spigots. Seems we are happy with others drilling and polluting and that is a situation that can’t go on.

    But think on it, loaning money to Brazil, telling them we want them to be a success in the oil business and we want to be their biggest customer. How is that possible if we don’t want to continue to use oil?

    Think about it. It makes no sense.

    And in a recent radio report in Los Angeles, the person was speaking about the hidden cost of electric cars. Seems that you need to have energy to recharge them, and that cost is a hidden cost that one tends not to think about. But the person speaking mentioned that recharging an electric car can seriously increase one’s electricity bill.

    And in areas where people drive a great deal, how does a limited range vehicle sound. Sounds likes a toy for the rich in those areas.

    • 45caliber

      Speaking of saving money on gasoline:

      Consider the prices. If you can save two cents a gallon at another station across town, is it worth driving there? Two cents a gallone would save me about 40 cents on a fillup. 40 cents will barely buy one tenth of a gallon – which will give me about 1.8 miles of driving.

      So if I have to drive over 1.8 miles TOTAL to reach that station, it costs me more in both gasoline and money to go there. I’d be better off, burn less fuel, and make less pollution buying it locally.

    • Levi

      The Nissan Leaf, with an estimated 100 mile range per charge, should cost about $3-5 dollars to fully charge on an electric home hookup. There are also systems that take advantage of the car battery to SUPPLY power to the home at peak times (between 5 and 10 PM when everyone is home watching TV and making dinner) and CHARGE in off-peak (between 2 and 8 AM ish in most places). If your utility company offers discounts for off-peak use (which many do) you could be charging for as little as $1 if you take in the offset of the peak usage. So, your utility bill might go up by like $20 or so per month if you are driving 2K miles per month (most of us drive far less than that)… But you would but NO GAS. I put $80 per week into my Durango, and we drive a Honda Civic Hybrid for 70% of our driving, which costs about $40 every two weeks to fill with Premium. So, in the whole energy scheme of things, how much is that “hidden” cost? Oh, and I pay $90 every 3K miles for a synthetic oil change on each rig, plus coolant flushes, bearing packs, etc, etc… None of those with a full electric…

  • Raggs

    AHHHH… obama and other communist want us to have rubber band windup cars, they just haven’t figured out how to make them self winding yet… Maybe a 50′ tall turbine attached to the roof? HUH obama?
    Well you second guess is a bubble powered car and with all of your hot air it should get a thousand miles to a breath.

  • LJM

    Is Myers the next Jimmy (I’ll give away anything) wear sweaters, drive crap cars, but not use all of the resources we have in the former free USA?

    We have oil and natural gas, and the capability of the cheapest, safest, and most efficient way to produce electricity, it is nuclear.
    Thanks, Hanoi Jane, for shutting down our economy, and Jimmy C. for
    being a shill for the Commies.

  • Levi

    So let me get this straight… The argument is that we are spending too much and are entirely too dependent on high dollar, high power, low MPG vehicles, but you DO NOT want electrics? How does that compute. Fossil fuel, by definition, (that is, because it is based on dinosaur FOSSILS that decomposed, and are not being made anymore, sorry Lost World fans) is in limited supply. At SOME point it WILL run out. We may be able to prolong the inevitable, but sooner or later, all the wells will run dry. By contrast, our Sun is anticipated to continue cooking away for many billions of years more, so there is little argument that it will continue pouring heat and light into our planet, driving the winds and heating the soil for a while to come. The moon, which produces our tides, also does not seem likely to go anywhere anytime soon (so long as Gru does not get his way). The problem is not the electricity, it is that much of it is currently generated by coal, fossil fuel or fusion (pull up a reactor map of the US and you will be shocked at how many nuke plants there are in the East). All of which are in limited supply, and one of which (as Japan has so recently shown) is highly dangerous to our PLANET in an immediate sense (Global Warming propaganda aside). Solar, wind and tide power are crucial for eliminating our fossil fuel dependancy. What we NEED are cars that are COVERED in the latest flexible membrane high efficiency solar cell technology melded with high capacity, low weight, high stability, low memory, fast charging, low temperature next gen battery technology, applying power to a dynamically controlled, self governing, spring turbine acceleration assisted low maintenance brushless motor assembly, into a low friction or even hydro-dynamic drive train, into low friction ceramic bearing floated super-alloy wheels wrapped in low rolling resistance next gen compound unpressurized tires (the ones that have open sidewalls and the spines to join the wheel to the tread)… Now, sell THAT car for $40K, but tell people they will NEVER have to have any maintenance on it for the first 300K miles, they will never HAVE to charge it (unless the solar is not cutting it) and CAN OWN IT OUTRIGHT (none of this “you can lease it, but we might demand it back” BS of the EV-1 variety) and I bet you would get some takers. Last I checked, the wait list for the Nissan Leaf was CRAZY long, and that was before the quake. Then, on the governmental side, give a tax credit for every mile driven in that car, for work or pleasure, and allow people to register them for FREE (does everyone not remember that the DMV is a State organization that our tax dollars already pay for… Why do we pay to register our vehicles again?)… Just out of curiosity, I did the math on the new Nissan Leaf. If you buy one for $25K (they list for around $20K), don’t take the $7K tax credit from the Fed, and DRIVE IT FOR AT LEAST 10 YEARS AT NO LESS THAN 10K PER YEAR (that is key in our crazy “lease it for three years and then return it to lease a “new” one” society), you would MAKE $10K on the deal, still have a completely viable vehicle for probably another 10+ years, have almost no maintenance fees (much less the wasted work time dropping off, waiting for and picking up a vehicle from service), never have to stop at a gas station (how much time do we waste there?), and do good things for air quality and noise pollution to boot (if you have never driven one, EV’s are SUPER quiet)! And my $10K is based on fuel prices that stay around $4 per gal annual average over the next 10 years (which is not very likely at this point). Imagine what the savings would be if they had solar cells (or you did a conversion on your own and only saved $5K over 10 years, but you would save another 1K in electricity costs or so too). So why are we even buying FUEL EFFICIENT cars anymore? We KNOW that they WILL run out of fuel at some point. They are guaranteed to become obsolete. If someone tried to sell you a house and told you it was based on a coal burning stove for all heat and water (tech from the 1800′s), would you be excited? What if they told you it used in floor distributive geothermal heating and had a geothermal power plant to produce 5KW+ continuous power? For the same price, which would you buy? The answer is buy the least expensive efficiency vehicle you can NOW, park (but do not sell) your low efficiency rig and use it when necessary (too many people to move, pull the trailer, push through the snow storm, etc.), and sink whatever you can into insulating and sealing your home, buying high efficiency appliances and on-demand air and water heating systems, instal solar cells instead of shingles, put a wind turbine on every corner of your house and watch the meter spin BACKWARDS… 8-) Nothing pisses the utility company off more than having to write YOU a check every month. I have a Civic Hybrid that will get 65 MPG on the highway if I drive it at 55 MPH (and I get flipped off and honked at A LOT, even in the right lane). Unfortunately, I also have a Dodge Durango that gets 12-18 (needed by a family of 4 plus 80 pound Labradoodle) and a 31 foot motorhome that we do not even want to TALK about gas mileage with. If there WERE alternatives for those two behemoths, I would invest in them, but, currently, there are not. And no, a “hybrid” SUV that gets, ooooh, 25 MPG but costs $35K does not count. Radical changes in the mindset are necessary for these alternatives to be seriously considered. That may start to happen if fuel goes over $5 a gallon. It already has in some ways. Statistics show that, in the last 10 years, auto thefts have moved from high dollar Escalades and Super Cars to high efficiency Hondas and Toyotas… Even the thieves know that people are looking for high efficiency rigs… That should be a wake up call to the rest of us. And by the way, typically speaking, Dems tend to drive efficiencies, and Reps tend to drive SUV’s and BMW’s… Just sayin… The government, and the people who run it, are not the problem. We, the people, are. If we don’t ask for it, they will not build it. America uses something like 38% of the world’s energy on a per capita basis… Not because we have to, but because, in the past, we could. That is changing.

    • http://Moreexpensive,moreunknowproblems. Lewis Munn

      If you drive under a low tree branch, do you rip open your battery and have to buy a new one?

      We just have a whole new set of expensive repairs and dangerous electrical fires and explosions. May get electrocuted rather than burned escaping!!

  • KKuurus

    Each dip on that graph corresponds to a drop in the economy of the USA. When people lost money they didn’t drive as much.

  • Jay
  • Raggs

    I think that pelosi was used as a crash test dumby for too long…. :)

    • 45caliber

      Raggs:

      Could be. I always assumed she had had her face lifted far too many times. Her belly button was showing. Or maybe it was the botox.

      • Raggs

        LOL.. funny looking belly button with hole in the middle of it… :)

        • 45caliber

          Hummmm … You don’t suppose that it’s been lifted so far that she’s talking out of her …

          • Raggs

            AH…

          • Raggs

            Well… the tax payers get a small break on her dental bill, but her proctologist?????

          • Carlucci

            Van Dyke “beard”??

  • Phil

    When you wonder what happened to fuel economy, you need look no farther that Detroit, OPEC, and Washington.

    When I was much younger I rode in a 1952 car that weighed almost 6000 lbs. It has a straight 8 engine and we used it for everything from vacations to towing a 36ft mobile home. While towing this mobile home, we averaged 26 mpg, we never checked the mpg with just the car.

    This car had no computer, no fuel injection, no catalytic converter, no A.I.R. pump, ran on 25 cent a gallon gasoline, and had more that 200,000 mile on it when it was totaled by a drunk driver in 1966.

    This was also when you could work on the car in a closed garage for quite a while without your lungs burning from the noxious fumes put out by a catalytic converter.

    By the way, my father was no injured when the car was totaled, mostly because that was when they made cars to last.

    Maybe they should go back and look at the older cars and re-manufacture their engines to fit todays cars, and leave off all the unnecessary junk that we have on todays cars and trucks. An engine will run just fine with a carburetor and points.

  • http://deleted Claire

    I will continue to purchase American brand name cars for as long as I live. I finally traded in my old full size ’94 Chevy van–and my 92 Buick Roadmaster (low mileage) for a Chrysler Town & Country Touring Van. My husband and I went to Wisconsin last week and needless to say I love the new van. My theory on the GM bailout is this–since my taxpaying money went towards the bailout, I will support GM cars, etc. I simply believe that if I do not support GM, I will lose money as a taxpayer. I will not apologize for supporting GM. My husband and I have had Chevys for decades. We purchased a Chevy Impala a few months ago. Also, I still believe the Wall Street Speculators have a hand in the rising cost of gas for vehicles. Nothing will make me believe otherwise. I filled up the new van this past Monday evening, knowing that on Tuesday or Wednesday the price of gas would increase. It has been this way for years in this town. The cost on Monday night was 3.99 per gallon. On Tuesday afternoon it was 4.19 per gallon. And the cost of gas goes up considerably with the coming of holidays. It is the continuous fleecing of the American citizen.

    • Karolyn

      Add to that, Claire, GM will be hiring 4000 workers and has already paid back almost half of what they borrowed. (23m of 49m).

      • http://deleted Claire

        Karolyn: I have read that GM has paid back a lot of the money they borrowed and I am glad to know this.

        • JeffH

          Claire, I’m a Chevy/GM guy myself and will probably buy another should I need to…but…GM CEO Ed Whitacre said that GM has paid back the bailout money in full, he means not the entire $49.5 billion–the loan and the equity. In fact, he avoids all mention of that figure in his column. He means GM has only paid back the $6.7 billion loan amount, not the $49.5 billion.

          Now get this, the Obama administration put $13.4 billion of the aid money as “working capital” in an escrow account when the company was in bankruptcy. The company is using this escrow money–government money–to pay back the government loan.

          GM has applied to the Department of Energy for $10 billion in low (5%) interest loan to retool its plants to meet the government’s tougher new CAFÉ (Corporate Average Fuel Economy) standards. However, giving GM more taxpayer money on top of the existing bailout would have been a political disaster for the Obama administration and a PR debacle for the company. Paying back the small bailout loan makes the new–and bigger–DOE loan much more feasible.

          In short, GM is using government money to pay back government money to get more government money. And at a 2% lower interest rate at that. This is a nifty scheme to refinance GM’s government debt–not pay it back!
          http://www.forbes.com/2010/04/23/general-motors-economy-bailout-opinions-columnists-shikha-dalmia.html

    • Karolyn

      Have you noticed how long it’s taking for prices to go down now that the price of oil has fallen? When oil goes up, gas goes up much quicker than it does when it comes down.

      • Thamera

        Yes, I have noticed that but what we are dealing with now is the weakening dollar which is going to give rise to inflation of everything :(

  • Gin

    I drive a 2000 VW Golf TDI/52mpg, and my husband drives a 2005 VW Golf TDI/45-50mpg(depending how he’s driving that day). I would like to trade mine in for the VW POLO Blue-motion Diesel that gets 75mpg, but the US won’t them be sold in the US, so this crap about the government wants the cars to get better gas mileage is a load. They just want to support Exxon and the rest of their buddies that fill their election coffers!
    Also, I’m disgusted with the citizens of the US that support the Middle Eastern terrorists each time they fill their “Earth-Fu__ers” (SUV’s) that get 9 mpg. I hope you all go bankrupt…I know, I know, you can afford it, and should be able to be able to buy what you want. Well, good luck with that once the dollar crashes.

  • Jeanette Richards

    When Obama gave all the “cash for clunkers” didn’t it ever occur to anybody that it did nothing (except create resentment and irony) for all us in the “peon’ class? My husband and I are not in good health, trying to exist on a very small retirement and Social Security. Were we suppose to run out and incur car payments we couldn’t begin to make? It’s our generation and the young people trying to live within a budget that are still driving the “clunkers” for the most part. And, let’s face it, they don’t fall apart as easily and can still be kept on the road by an average diy-er.

  • Eddie47d

    You wouldn’t know a fact if it hit you in the butt Jeff. More mis-information from Jeff the smear king. Go download more of your propaganda because we know you can’t think for yourself.

    • Raggs

      Oh eddie calm down and drink some koolaid…

      • JeffH

        He’s a real gem isn’t he?

  • chester

    This article incorporates an interesting chart.
    It indicates that the inflated price of today’s gasoline is fairly close to year 1979 gasoline $.80-1.00/gal vs $1.20/gal today, that is using 1979 dollars adjusted for inflation. One can see that prices were fairly constant 1986 thru 2004 at near $.60 to $.80/gal.
    Only in the last few years has the inflation adjusted dollar price moved upwards to $1.20 to $1.40.
    To me, most of the shock is: the value of our money has been seriously eroded by the government since 2005, probably will be getting much worse.
    Hang onto your hats.

    • Raggs

      Adjusted inflation… Is that your way of saying pay more get less?

    • Raggs

      Are you still reading those books from carter?… Opps

    • Raggs

      Well shit.. while we are at it lets adjust the unemployment to nothing… If it looks good on paper?

  • Palin12

    I’m on a cross-country road trip as I write this. I’ve seen a big difference in gas prices from state to state. Cheapest in Wyoming at $3.30/gallon. Most expensive Indiana $4.50. Saw Mt.Rushmore yesterday. Just incredible. They claim it’s the largest sculpture in the world. And no democrats are on it!

  • http://com i41

    The same mental midget union jackasses, would whine like b–ches in heat if oil companies weren’t making profits. Every f–king worthless union is buried up the oil companies rear, since their over paid f–ks want big retirement funds. Of course these same worthess pukes want every one driving match box crap and are full fledged envior smucks at best. Those battery powered junk heaps don’t work to well in cooler areas of the USA, and are a death trap on aby bike tires. Why isn’t the jug eared marxist muslim bastard and all pus gutted federal dorks driving these worthless toys Next the beltway bastards will spew the s–t about deaths going down, yes nothing is being planteds for food or fuel, and nobody is going on vacations more than 200 miles away. I am less than 30 miles from 100 oil wells that have been drilled andd the values shut off, because of the niggaredly behavior of the crossbred and the marxist/communist socialist dumbocraps, who have given billions to dictators and marxist clowns, and goat wrangling pedophile muslim perverts. Damn Onumnutts is alway getting shagged from these freaks, so they are rump ranging good buddies, any suprise!

  • agcat111

    We here in Utah, have ideas. Have you heard of the Blackberry, well there is now a BlueBerry. What is it? It is a device that:

    * Is Easy to Install
    * Increases Horsepower and Torque
    * Smoother Idle
    * Better Throttle Response
    * Improved Fuel Economy (for real)
    * Conditions Voltage and Current Flow
    * Improve audio Sound Quality
    * Longer Battery Life
    * Helps protect all Electrical Components

    There may be other benefits which we have not discovered yet. For instance we have not tested the BlueBerry on diesel vehicles, yet. But that is coming in the next few weeks. There is a special unit under development, mostly on the drawing boards for the large Diesel Tractor Trailer Drivers and their companies.

    The BlueBerry is compatible with most motorcycles also and we are preparing to target the Harley-Davidson, Honda Gold Wing and other large motorcycles to start. Yes, the BlueBerry comes in a special small size to fit very nicely on the motorcycles. So we are trying our best to un-stupid all the people we can get to use the BlueBerry. So here is to those that like us, are trying to un-stupid all those that will listen.

  • http://yahoo onfinal

    In the 70s I lived on the streets,there was no work and mostly I was the wrThe illumanati put ong color (white). I ahve pulled myself up and have done ok for an old average guy, I have since left the US and will never return. Can’t take anymore lame excuses. The omyillumanati put obama bin laden in office no matter what anybody said. As for econo box’s,I had a couple. With my costom show Dodge Durango,I was getcheaper than waterting 24 MPG and will do 130MPH all day long,at 5,000lbs thats respectable. I no longer have a car,I have only my motor cycle.In my new home gas is half what the states pay and in Kuwait gas is cheaper than water. 2 many in office want to destry the US and we let them do it.

  • 500 hp

    IF I CAN AFFORD A 800 HP AUTO (AND I CAN) AND CHOOSE TO HAVE A AUTO LIKE THAT (AND I DO) ITS NONE OF YOUR DAMN BUSINESS. THERE ARE TOO MANY OTHER THINGS WRONG WITH THIS COUNTRY RIGHT NOW THAT A 800 HP CAR IS THE LEAST OF OUR WORRIES. IF YOU THINK YOU CAN PUNISH THE OIL COMPANIES BY DRIVING A 80 HP CAR, YOU ARE SADLY MISTAKEN, THEY HAVE TOO MUCH MONEY.

    • 45caliber

      When they can sell their oil to any plastics company for the same price as they can get for gasoline, any “punishment” of an oil company is all in someone’s head.

  • Cathy

    I previously owned a Honda Civic sedan…great gas mileage. Now I have a Ford F250 diesel long bed 4X4. However, I need it since I’ll be pulling a 5th wheel. It has a 38 gallon tank. Whew! Probably around $150 or so to fill it up. Oh well…

    But in Mexico, the diesel price is more than $1 cheaper than here. And the price changes ONCE a month, around the 10th, and then only a couple pennies or pesos. Why does OURS change daily?

    • 45caliber

      Mexico’s gas probably stays firm because they get all their gas from their own wells. We have to buy ours from out of country – much of it from Mexico. Their gas prices are based on the price of oil when they pumped it; ours is based on this morning’s price of oil.

  • Joe

    Does anyone remember the government program from the 70′s to get us off foreign oils. We were relying on foreign oil 30% then. Now we are 70% or more. That program costs us $200 trillion plus each year today and no-one bothers to cancell the program. Years ago, if you could afford the big expensive cars, they got more mileage per gallon. Today if you accidentally recieve a u.s. car built for a foreign country, they seem to be getting almost twice the mileage. Why do you think we have to have all that smog crap. A new car running poorly puts out more pollution than the cars of yesteryears ever could. But then we had gasoline with octane of 110 and more. Look at the thermostates of 1960′s (160 degree) verses todays at 195 plus, in order to ignite the watered-down gas. There’s no reason we the people (like from the Constitution) can’t run our own business’ and produce the cars we want and grow the foods that are healthy and dress the way we want and go to the church we want as long as we are true american citizens of this great nation. UNLESS we are truly NOT FREE to do as the founding fathers set forth. How does any of the previous comment from others and myself relate? Control-LIES THREATS !! How many remember when we first killed bin Luden? Then, didn’t he die of kidney failure? Then, later of another disease? WHO KILLED J.R.???

  • Pierre

    I have read most of the comments on this article. I just have one thing to say. Oil is a finite resource. It will run out one day. May be not in my lifetime or even my children’s lifetime. But eventually it will run out. Our life center around oil from gasoline to the clothes we wear. There are substitutes for everything except for the jet fuel that airplanes use. You can use bio-fuel for cars and truck but they don’t work for jet engines. We should start to use alternate energy as much as possible and try to reduce the use of oil so that future generations can still fly around until a substitute for jet fuel is developed.

  • Average Joe

    For those that don’t think electric cars have a future and have not seen this….enjoy!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=369h-SEBXd8&playnext=1&list=PL167D989DB36BDAC6

  • GrumpyOne

    I had the same car back in the 1980′s, a ’76 Honda Civic CVCC that I bought from a friend who bought it new. It had 88K and I drove it to 160K when I had to retire it due to excessive rust. By then gas was pretty cheap and I drove one of my Sudebakers on a daily basis.

    Fast forward to 2004 and rapidly rising gas prices. I began to look for an “old” Civic simply because the car was so simple and dependable. I ended up by buying a generation 2 ’83 Civic FE 1300 along with a parts car for $100 each. I put about $700 into the FE and drove it for about 25K but I really wanted an automatic. I found one of those also for $100, put $500 into it and have been driving it for the past three years. It gets 35mpg in mixed driving.

    The FE is currently being restored as it was an example of the first high mpg car that Honda produced. Real world testing confirmed the claim of 42mpg city and 55 mpg highway and my mileage was a little less but today’s gas is crap plus I had an ’81 engine instead of the super slick ’82 and ’83 models. Still, I average 40mpg in mixed driving. Generation 2 Civics are wider, longer and just a bit heavier yet they get much better fuel economy than the generation 1 Civics.

    All of this begs the question on “just how far have we come?”

    Obviously not very far at all. Today’s cars are heavier, uglier and less fuel efficient. Loaded with toxic plastic and gadgets to steal your attention to let you meet that tree close up, this is progress denied instigated by big brother.

    Oh, for the days of yesteryear and some common sense!

  • Edgar Vest

    If this is wise people today, just think of the educated idiots that
    are in school today!

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