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Faith In The President

October 19, 2011 by  

Faith In The President

What is more important: the religious faith of the candidates running for the Presidency or voters’ faith that this time they get it right and choose the best candidate to be the next President?

My mother always told me not to discuss religion. I am breaking with her this one time. The reason is the spotlight that has been thrown on the former Governor of Massachusetts and front-running GOP Presidential candidate Mitt Romney. You probably have heard that Romney is a Mormon.

It was much publicized earlier this month when Pastor Robert Jeffress called Mormonism a “cult” at a political gathering. Jeffress told hundreds of congregants this at his Texas megachurch where he welcomed the opportunity to warn people about the “false religion.”

Following his cult comments, Jeffress introduced and then endorsed the current Governor of Texas and Republican Presidential candidate Rick Perry.

To his credit, Perry, an evangelical Christian, rebuffed Jeffress’ comments and said he does not believe the Mormon faith is a cult. This is no doubt good news to Jon Huntsman, the former Governor of Utah and another Republican Presidential candidate who is also a practicing Mormon.

The Jewish Journal summed up the religious questioning by Jeffress this way:

I guess no Jewish politician will ever get Jeffress’ blessing if he’s running against Christians. This is in the same spirit as the pastor’s laughable assertion a few years ago that “Mormonism, Islam, Judaism and Hinduism … lead people to an eternity of separation from God in hell.” He has also stated that the Catholic Church represents the “genius of Satan.” If LDS Christianity has run afoul of Pastor Jeffress, it looks like we’re in good company: 14 million Mormons + 1.5 billion Muslims + 14 million Jews + 850 million Hindus + 1 billion Catholics, all condemned by the 10,000 members of Jeffress’ megachurch in Dallas.

Is The Oval Office For Evangelicals Only?

I haven’t studied Romney’s leadership plans enough to speculate on what kind of President he would make. However, I believe the covenant Romney has between his God and himself should not eliminate him from Presidential consideration.

Consider former President Jimmy Carter. By all accounts, Carter was and is a mainstream Christian. Most of the world holds Carter in high esteem. However, that did not make him a good President.

Frankly, I don’t care about a candidate’s spirituality as long as he or she believes in God. That signifies to me that he or she believes in something larger than himself or herself and his or her ambitions. Rather than worry over a candidate’s religious convictions, I want to know if he or she is the best person for the job.

I think this is what Thomas Jefferson believed when he argued for the separation of church and state. Two hundred years later, church and state sometimes seem inseparable.

In 1787 Jefferson wrote: “The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.”

The Mormon Church Is Hardly A Cult

I think what Jefferson was saying is that all Americans have the right to choose which religion to follow. By extension, even American Presidents have this right.

Before you write your letters of protest, let me add this caveat: I do not tolerate theological beliefs over secular solutions. That eliminates candidates who practice a religion built upon hate and intolerance. So, yes, I would eliminate a candidate who believes in radical Wahhabism or other extremist religions that really are cults. Just because you call yourself “Reverend” doesn’t mean you can pass out the Kool-Aid to the ignorant or unsuspecting.

Romney may make a fine President. I don’t think being a Mormon should disqualify him.

Out Of The Mouths Of Babes

Only a few times have I had an important vote.

The first time was when I was on the junior varsity basketball team in high school and voted for team captain. I sided with the majority and voted for a kid named Steve who was serious about winning and who didn’t mess with booze or drugs. Steve was the first kid to come to practice and the last to leave.

It turned out Steve was a Mormon. I can’t remember how I found out, but it wasn’t important. Steve only talked about winning and getting better.

Our high school had a great debate team, and I was part of a unanimous vote for our captain, a kid named Lern. I knew Lern was Jewish. I also knew what everyone else at our school knew: Lern was not only smart but spent endless hours looking up trivia. This was eons before Google. Lern was instrumental in our school defending its city championship in a televised program called “Reach for the Top.”

I also voted for our high school class president and valedictorian. I voted for the winner, Brenda, who was an incredibly focused and ambitious girl who made a great class president. Years later, Brenda was the evening anchor for CBC News, Canada’s largest TV network. I never did learn what her religious beliefs were. It still doesn’t seem important.

I am not saying that being school valedictorian and being the leader of the free world are the same. I voted for them because of their abilities. Their religion never influenced my vote.
Finally, ask yourself one question: If you needed double bypass heart surgery what doctor would you choose? I am certain you would pick the best doctor, regardless of his religious beliefs.

More Than Ever America Needs a Great President

What the United States needs now is a leader who can guide the country toward a better future.

Your next vote for President may be the most important one you ever cast. If you get it right, does it matter if he or she is Protestant, Catholic, Jew or Mormon? Who cares if he or she reads the spiritual writings of Joseph Smith? Let’s just hope he or she also reads the economic writings of Adam Smith.

I don’t know if John Kennedy was a good President or a bad one. Whichever he was, I don’t think it had anything to do with his being Catholic. I do think Richard Nixon was a terrible President, even though as a boy he is said to have been a devout Quaker. 

A candidate’s voting record is fair game. So, too, is what he or she has said, and how he or she has lived life. I hope that no candidate is disqualified because of religion.

Yours in good times and bad,

–John Myers
Editor, Myers Energy & Gold Report

P.S. In case you are wondering about me, I was baptized Protestant.

John Myers

is editor of Myers’ Energy and Gold Report. The son of C.V. Myers, the original publisher of Oilweek Magazine, John has worked with two of the world’s largest investment publishers, Phillips and Agora. He was the original editor for Outstanding Investments and has more than 20 years experience as an investment writer. John is a graduate of the University of Calgary. He has worked for Prudential Securities in Spokane, Wash., as a registered investment advisor. His office location in Calgary, Alberta, is just minutes away from the headquarters of some of the biggest players in today’s energy markets. This gives him personal access to everyone from oil CEOs to roughnecks, where he learns secrets from oil insiders he passes on to his subscribers. Plus, during his years in Spokane he cultivated a network of relationships with mining insiders in Idaho, Oregon and Washington.

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  • s c

    First, Mr. Myers, if you believe America has an effective separation of church and state, please do a little research into 501 (c) 3 statutes. This is a ticking timebomb, and Uncle Scam is waiting until the right time to ‘educate’ those who think they are protected by the 501 9C) 3 charade. Mr. Myers, LBJ’s Nazi-like manipulation of that law will soon explode into a full-fledged hatred between church members and Uncle Scam. Uncle Scam is a closet Caesar. Bible readers understand that reference, Mr. Myers.
    As for Robert Jeffress, I know very little about him. I do know that some public figures go out of their way to have both feet in their mouths, and Jeffress has done exactly that. As long as a political candidate doesn’t represent himself/herself as a braindead robot of a faith, I can probably tolerate religious wrinkles.
    I’m not prepared to extend that to the Muslim faith, but this is due to the fact that some people let religious passion become an addiction. I reserve the right to protect myself from easily-led individuals blinded by wannabe religious scholars who use “God says KILL” like an on-off switch.
    As for Romney, he has done quite a job of shooting himself in both feet. He will NEVER be able to explain or justify his Massachusetts healthcare crapola being Obummer’s healthcare scam blueprint. Romney, bow out. You are political HISTORY.

    • Bells

      Romney has laid it out many times in clear words. Parts of the health care bill were VETOED by him but the DEMOCRATIC state legislators which over rode his veto. As he said…the state got what their eleted officals wanted and voted for.

      • DaveH

        Romney didn’t just vote for the Massachusetts Health Care Bill. He sponsored it.

        • Altaica

          bah, the only worthwhile candidate I have seen is Ron Paul.

          • LindyMaeUSA

            Amen to THAT, Altaica!! I’m writing Ron Paul’s name in on my ballet because “worthwhile” candidates will NOT even be considered, let alone, nominated!

          • Old Henry

            Lindy:

            Be careful with doing that. It oculd negate your entire ballot.

            You should check with your local election officials at your County Seat as I think an individual must be conducting a write-in campaign before you can legitimately write in their name.

          • eddie47d

            Thanks for your wonderfully blessed article and well said.

          • texastwin827

            Apparently you aren’t the only one who supports Ron Paul (as I do). His money bomb is already over $1 MILLION and it’s not even 2pm (here in TX)

          • Cat

            Amen!

        • professor

          Romney’s healthcare program was an experiment and received federal money to fund it. The program started out offering great benefits for the people. Of course, like many other programs funded by the government, the Federal money eventually runs out, and the programs are no longer affordable..

          • FreedomFighter

            America is falling apart riddled with corruption, government infiltrated with socialist/communist operatives and anti-American politicians bought and paid for by New World Order factions. The Federal Reserve and its cartel of banks are robbing the world to the point of collapse, and oh so many know it now. Our current president, weak, ineffectual, divisive, a traitor the constitution, and the American people, hell bent on presiding over our decent into crony capitalism, totalitarian socialism, fascism and eventually communism. In so doing the world falls into a dark pit resembling hell on earth.

            I put my faith in no man, only god.

            That aside, the next president, not including Obama, has the opportunity to be one of, if not, the most famous president of the century. He or she as a leader need only embrace our constitution to restore America.

            What does that mean?

            Examples would be: Elimination of the Federal Reserve, Top to bottom rewrite if not elimination of the current tax code, wholesale elimination of many government departments: Energy, Education and EPA to name a few to reduce size and power of government in our lives.

            Slam shut our borders and allow the current illegal immigrants to be vetted, removed or Americanized, this will end the destabilization of national identity currently in play.

            Get government out of the way of business. Do so without letting them give into greed, screwing the public.
            Make our corporate tax rate the 2nd lowest in the world, money from all over the world will pour into the United States creating jobs and untold opportunity.

            Revise our trade agreements to favor America and punish with tariffs countries like China that cheat in the global markets.
            Develop and exploit our American energy resources to the fullest and get off eastern oil.

            Make it illegal for socialist, fascists and communist to hold political office, a teaching position, legal system/ judge position, because they advocate the overthrow of the USA.
            Mandate English as the official language, confusion of language breeds division.

            The next president has an historic opportunity to become the most famous man or woman in American History if they return the US to the limits of the constitution, the resulting economic boom alone will guarantee a place in history, a return to the constitution will make them an American legend.

            Laus Deo
            Semper Fi

          • Old Henry

            Nice job.

            Ron Paul / FreedomFighter 2012!

            Vice President FreedomFighter. Has a nice ring to it…

          • Christin

            Freedom fighter,

            I agree…So very well said.

            I was thinking that WHEN the borders are really closed by a Constitutional Conservative President… the ‘current illegal aliens’ that “are vetted” as you say and are not criminals (other than entering our sovereign -open border- country illegally) that are allowed to stay should be made to take a government class and (if needed) an English class (and pass with a 80% or better) if they want to stay. That way they are invested in America. Then they would KNOW about the US Constitution with our guarantees of Freedom, Liberties, and Rights granted by God, as well as, the three branches of our LIMITED government and their Checks and Balances.

            I’m afraid right now all they know is the corrupt dictatorships they come from and the drug trafficking and killing cartels.

          • BigSkyCountry

            Have a Look at this about LDS …

            http://www.padfield.com/acrobat/sermons/mormonism.pdf

            Joseph Smith was a self-proclaimed prophet , and a Horse thief, etc..

            GOD BLESS AMERICA AND ALL WHO DEFEND HER !

    • meteorlady

      Here’s the deal. Back in 2008 the RNC made Romney a promise – step aside for McCain and we will back you in 2012. Romney is the ultimate politician – he will say and do anything to get elected. He loves the power and spotlight. He came out a front runner because the RNC wanted it that way and the media jumped on the bandwagon with him and he’s a RINO.

      If we lived in a truly free society all the people running for President would have an equal voice and equal representation in the news. We do not and never will as long as we have a two party system because both parties are corrupted by power and money.

      My vote still stays with Ron Paul. He’s about the only hope we have left for this country. Will Mitt of Perry get rid of the illegal problems? Will Mitt or Perry get us all back to work? What are their plans for this country if elected? The only other people touting an actual plan are Herman Cain and Ron Paul.

      • Capitalist at Birth

        You evidently, have not researched Newt Gingrich. You can find out about his plans at newt.org Although I agree with many of Ron Paul’s ideas he is not going to win the nomination because of his many fool hardy statements on foreign policy and national defense.

        • chipshot

          Let me understand what you would call “foolhardy”. A foreign policy that gets us out of endless wars which we have no business fighting to begin with? A foreign policy based on zero foreign aid? A foreign policy that ensures we do not meddle in other country’s affairs? A foreign policy that follows the Constitution?
          I see nothing “foolhardy” about any of that.
          I am sick of having to hold my nose to vote for the “lesser of two evils”. Look where it has gotten us. A moronic Muslim (to put a religious spin on it) in the white house.
          You can listen to what politicians have to say but take more stock in what they have done. Ron Paul has been unequivocally consistent about following the Constitution. Give me Ron Paul. Or don’t expect my vote.

          • Old Henry

            Bravo chipshot!

            You did, however, leave out the fact that it’s all being done on BORROWED money – BORROWED on the backs of our grandchildren.

          • Ret

            Ya got that right.

          • Patriot1

            Chipshot – Ron Paul is merely following the ideals of the founders with his stance on foreign policy; non-interventionism. George Washington, in his farewell address, said “Tis our true policy to steer clear of entangling foreign alliances.” So anyone who thinks Ron Paul’s foreign policy is nutty must then also think that our founders were nutty, and if they don’t believe in our founders, then they don’t believe in America. I’d say the neo-con chickenhawk warmongers are every bit as unpatriotic as the leftist democrats. Most people are too blind to see what Ron Paul sees; that our domestic monetary policy and our foreign policy are linked. These un-constitutional wars are bankrupting us just as much as the bailouts and bloated government are. To get money to pay for these foreign interventions, the banksters keep printing more and more money out of thin air, thus further devaluing the dollar while creating more and more enemies around the world. The founders put gold and silver into the Constitution as a restraint on government. Since it is more rare than paper, it retains its value and the government is limited in what they can spend and they can’t keep expanding exponentially like they do today. Of course that what all done away with in 1913 with the creation of that monstrosity known as the Federal Reserve. Let’s get Ron Paul elected as president and end the Fed!!!!

          • moonbeam

            Absolutely right, Old Henry. The US gov’t borrows money from China to give to foreign aid. Now, if that don’t beat all! I call that robbing Peter to pay Paul. What on earth kind of sense does that make?

            Come November 2012, we had better get it right this time or there will be smoke in the city, making the riots of the 60′s look like a kindergarten field trip.

          • Altaica

            I’m a firm believer of we need to take care of ourselves before helping anyone outside the US. Until our country is free of disaster, free of unemployment, free of starvation, corrupt healthcare systems and homelessness, until our country has dealt with all of it’s criminals and corrupt politicians, addresses the poor economy, until we close our borders and eliminate the fat from our spending, Until our military is returned to defend our country instead of worthless wars, until America has dealt with all it’s own issues and it is completely and totally returned to a debt free, independent nation that does not depend on another countries resources to survive, until items from other countries are merely because we want that luxury item rather than it being the only choice, until all this happens, we should not spend one penny on another country. America’s pocketbooks should not be picked to give to other countries. The number one responsibility of America is to take care of itself. If you can’t afford anything more than the survival of yourself you don’t give your last drop of water or last piece of food to another. It’s basic survival.

          • Vicki

            Moonbeam writes:
            “I call that robbing Peter to pay Paul. What on earth kind of sense does that make?”

            It is far worse than that.

            The US Government BORROWS from Paul (China) then pays Paul (China) in foreign aid. The robbing comes when the government expects Peter (the US Taxpayer) to pay Paul (again).

            Form Paul’s point of view it is a win-win.

        • texastwin827

          How are Ron Paul’s viewpoints on foreign policy and defense, “foolhearty”?

          We have no business in the wars we currently are in, except possibly Afghanistan. We can not leave troops in a country simply because there are terrorists there as they would never come home. In case you haven’t noticed, they have an endless supply of them (terrorists). All the while, our entire southern border is “under attack” from drug cartels now paying US kids, as young as 11 yrs old to do their dirty work, not to mention the large increase of illegals crossing our borders and bankrupting our hospitals, our schools and receiving welfare benefits (that they don’t pay any taxes to support) for the birth and upkeep of their anchor babies…of which they have one right after another.

          Dr Paul knows what he’s talking about…there is no foolheartiness about it.

          As for his stance on defense, pray tell me why we have bases in 150 countries?

          • Altaica

            I personally believe that the mother should have to spend the majority of her pregnancy legally within the country in order for her child to be considered an American citizen by birth. This means they have to be a legal immigrant, or person here with a green card, work visa or student visa. Anyone that comes here outside of the legal means should be shipped back, kid and all. If we did that we’d see a decrease in anchor babies I am sure.

        • OB1

          You mean becuase he doesn’t want to “nuke” Iran where the majority of people are under 34 and despise their government controlled by the mullahs an Imadinnerjacket? Where in the hell have you been for the last 3 years? The current president of Iran was renewed by Kamheni the “Supreme Leader”. The Revolutionary guard probably in truth are supportive of the people. Yes, they still oppress them. Let the Green Movement and Mosavi, who was truly elected and is currently under house arres along with Mehdi Karoubi, do what it will do and stay out of the way and support LIBERTY and quit thinking you solve problems by bombing innocent civilians!!!!! Do your homework. Thank God for Ron Paul’s knowledge of world affairs AND COMMON SENSE!

        • JC

          Capitalist…since when were the principles of the Constitution of the United States of America…”foolhardy”?

      • LindyMaeUSA

        “Romney is the ultimate politician – he will say and do anything to get elected. He loves the power and spotlight.” You are absolutely correct, Meteorlady!!

        POWER, MONEY, SPOTLIGHT and let’s not forget rapacious GREED and CORRUPTION are the absolute OBSESSIONS that drive any “politician” into seeking to sit and “do as he pleases” for four years in the “most powerful political position in the world!”

        If God had made it possible for humans to “always” tell the truth, I would believe Romney’s self-proclaimed “innocence” about that evil RomneyCare which was forced on his constituents just like ObamaCare has been FORCED on Americans!

        Sadly enough, humans have very short memories regarding “skeletons in the closet” of ALL politicians and the old idiom: “Talk is cheap!” still applies, no matter what voting year it is!

        I’ve been a proponent of Jesus’ wisdom more than forty years and ALWAYS rely on His statement (especially during election years) concerning “character and integrity” when He said in Matthew 7:16: “You can identify them (decent or corrupt politicians) by their fruit, that is, by the way they act.” (what they DO, NOT by what they SAY!!

        • S.C. Murf

          Amen and Amen

          up the hill
          airborne

      • BigSkyCountry

        This is a little info on Mormonism, and it IS NOT anything to do with Biblical Christianity. They have added to the Word of GOD, ergo the plagues will be added to Joseph Smith et al..
        Secondly, Ron Paul will not be President. He hasn’t got the understanding of domestic and foreign policy.. He does know some thing about domestic finance, but to ignore Israel is a Great Faux Pas ! In retreating from the International policy scene, Paul intends to cut back on Defense (no more NATO membership, etc…?) He is Pro-life, but …If he DOES NOT support Israel, ergo is not a Christian… WE are a Judeo-Christian Nation, NOT muslim. hindu, shinto, etc.. Perry and Gingrich are the two that will make it work, ie: One knows how to work DC, the other knows foreign policy, national security, Job Creation, (Illegal Alien Problem) will secure the border (deports criminal illegals already), will Drill, drill, drill and bring us to energy independence, Will create a Flat Tax, and will have a host of good Patriotic Advisors on Education, Medicare (no universal healthcare), will reverse what BHO has illegally passed via Executive Fiat/Decree. He’s been a soldier (Pilot), also a Cotton Farmer, and attended a Non-Ivy league university…And will seek GOD for guidance . This is something rare in this day and age.. Because These United States have got so far away from GOD, has resulted in the current Communist/Marxist administration that is doing everything in its power to destroy American Freedom and to put us ALL into bondage unto the State, which replaces GOD. This will then lead to persecution for Christians especially.

        • Altaica

          I disagree. The treaty of Tripoli voted in by our congress and president John Adams clearly states that “Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.” This very statement means we do not, by the very nature of what our founding fathers set up, do not have to support Israel based on a religious similarity. This doesn’t mean we have to be against them, it just means we let them fight their own wars. Israel is very strong in their own right and very wealthy. They also have a lot of practices that pretty inhumane. I learned about these practices from my Airforce friends who have first hand experience from being stationed in the middle east and Israel. I trust the first hand information over the corrupted stories often presented in Mainstream media. I think it is way past the time where we deal with ourselves. We have our own neighbors causing us problems and we’re not dealing with them because we’re meddling with other countries problems. We need to deal with what comes over our southern border and crack down on the drug cartels. If anything we should be helping the beleagured police in Mexico to end the drug cartels and help them to fix their society for the simple fact if we do that we would not have anywhere near the amount of illegal immigrants coming over the border.

        • http://naver samurai

          Wrong answer Altaica! There were actually 2 Treaties of Tripoli. The 2nd one did not have Article 11 in it. Look at the 2 treaties and learn something. Knock off the no God nonsense, atheist. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Altaica

            Link me this second treaty and link me also the source that says the first one was revoked from secular sources only.

            And stop with atheist nonsense, it gets old. If I was an atheist I would say I was, I have countless times stated that I was not an atheist as I believe in a force of creation. Atheists do not believe this. I am religious I just don’t follow your faith because I do not wish to follow a god that says thou shalt not kill then tells his followers to stone non-virgin wives to death, stone someone to death for picking up sticks on the sabbath, tells his followers to put everyone in a city to the sword including infants, tells his followers to kill everyone but keep the virgins for themselves, allows and praises his followers for sacrificing and burning their children (See the story of Jepthah and read the proper translation from hebrew, he killed and burned her), I’m sorry but I will never again follow your jealous, vengeful hateful representation of the Great Creator. I am not an Atheist, and I am not a Christian. I’ll stick to my beliefs that have existed long before your contradictary text written by flawed humans and voted on by flawed humans. And btw, you have no right to judge me, your very book says only God can judge. So stop with your almighty judgements and at least pretend to be a real christian. My minister father told me any christian that passes judgement is not a true christian.

      • http://seoforagents..com Coach Katerina

        Your comment is based on innuendo and gossip. I know Mitt Romney personally and what you said about McCain and him is simply not true at all. It is really sad all this false accusations that you spout off.

    • Old Henry

      Last week on, I believe it was WND, I read an article about a Mormon Bishop’s daughter who has left the Mormon Church. She has written a book about Mormonism and in it explains Romney’s belief that when he dies he will become a god and be given his own planet to them populate.

      I had long before that decided I would NEVER vote for Romney. He is just another big-government easter liberal establishment RINO. Big Government, but at a slower pace.

      • Steve Bouton

        Hmm, that’s interesting- the book by the Bishop’s daughter. Usually, people who quit any church are usual disgruntled about something. Gee, with that I’m sure it’s chock full of “facts” about that evil Mormon Church. About as factual as a book written about a company written by a newly-fired employee. Oh, and about the Mormon Church being a cult, well I’m sure a lot of Jews considered Jesus’s disciples cultists too.

        • OB1

          Good try with that comment. Jesus was a jew, son of Mary, son of God, and all of the disciples were Jews. They were the first Christians. Jesus was the Savior the Jews were waiting for and anticipating! Isaiah 53 is only one old old Testament prophesies about the messiah:

          Isaiah 53

          King James Version (KJV)

          Isaiah 53

          1Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?

          2For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

          3He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

          4Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

          5But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

          6All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

          7He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

          8He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

          9And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

          10Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

          11He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

          12Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

          • Altaica

            I’ve heard Jews call Christians, Jew 2.0. I do know, historically speaking, Christianity has had many sects and in the early days it was considered a cult. The dictionary definition gives the impression that all religions are cults. Some definitions have different ideas. There’s conflicting definitions, sometimes positive, sometimes negative. It’s all in the context in which it is placed. A cult, inherently by pure definition is not a negative term. You have to examine it all in how it is used. One could infer all religions are cults, but not all cults are religions. You can have a “Cult following” Of objects and people, such as the Rocky Horror Picture Show. A Religion has a definition of believing in the supernatural, a cult does not. A Cult is simply a group of people with a strong belief in something. When it is in something supernatural it is akin to religion. There is a lot of things that need to be met in those cases. So pretty much, you have to examine the way the term is used. I don’t consider it insulting to say you believe in X and are therefore a cult. That’s just a simple statement. Add things like, murderous, crazy, or whatever other atrocious terms you can and then the cult because a subject of hatred and discontent. It’s all really a terminology thing that is often disagreed upon.

          • James

            OB1, The term ‘Jew’ in the Bible only referred to the two-tribe House of Judah. The ten-tribe House of Israel was never so tagged.

    • DavidL

      Sc,
      You should run for President for the conservative republicans. You would be terrific. If not you, what about Rush?

      • Old Henry

        DavidL:

        I have been listening to Limbaugh for 22 years. The last year to year and a half I have been really pying close attention more to what he does not say. He dismisses Ron Paul and pretends to scorn Romney and to a much lesser extent Perry, but he will get on board as soon as it is expedient for him. He is all about filling his pockets.

    • Ray

      Please remember that the job of Elected Officials are to represent the will of the people. I submit to you that Mitt Romney leans a little bit more to the right than his record as Gov. of Mass. reflects. I think he responded to the will of the people of that state. They are very Liberal and as conditions reveal they have supported the Kennedy clan and other liberals forever. I know that The values that he embraces as a Member of The LDS Church are the most conservative and Christlike. Family values, love of God and Country, and Love of Others….Please if you want to know what his faith teaches…Just have enough Courage to look at LDS.ORG and then find out for yourself…….Thank you for your consideration….

      • Old Henry

        Ray:

        Anybody that thinks they will become a god after death and be given their own planet to populate / rule as a god is not mentally fit to be POTUS.

        • a_great_america

          You are really goofy. You probably believe that a man got swallowed by a whale, lived inside for 3 days, and came out alive. You’ve got your facts all mixed up. Thank heavens, the majority of americans are not religious bigots like you. By their fruits ye shall know them? Your hatred certainly disqualifies you as a true Christian.

          • http://naver samurai

            Actually that was Jonah, you simpleton. Speaking of Christian, you are not. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Altaica

            I never could understand how Jonah could live without oxygen for 3 days when after 3 minutes with no oxygen you die. I also never understood why he was digested by the intense digestive acids and enzymes in the whales stomach that would have liquified him within 24 hours. I know why they called a whale a fish even though a whale is a mammal and not a fish. That one’s easy, they didn’t know much about marine life. And three days. While he could theorhetically survive without food, by the rule of 3′s, 3 days without water would also kill him. The water in the whale was salt water and if he drank that would have died even quicker. Salt water when drank in large quantities and not balanced with pure water will imbalance the cells and cause the cells to explode. I mean, without some form of special technology to provide him air for 3 days, give him pure water for 3 days, and to protect him from the acids and enzymes of the body along with the intense pressures of a diving whale into the deep of the ocean he just could not have survived. Any diver can tell you what happens when you dive or ascend too quickly. A whale can dive and rise very fast, and at best Jonah would have had a bad case of the bends, at worst he would have rolled up like a tube of toothpaste upon himself. A fun fantasy story, but my scientific mind can’t believe it to ever be true.

          • Karolyn

            It was undoubtedly an alien submarine. That is the answer that makes the most sense.

          • http://naver samurai

            Fist of all Altaica, he was delivered to Nineveh. A city of the Assyrian Empire. It is located in Easter Syria/Northern Iraq, so there would be no salt water for him to drink. Second, with God all things are possible. Third, get off of the science nonsense. Science only deals with the physical realm and not the spiritual realm. Karolyn, we both know they had no submarines in those days. What a moronic statement. No intelligence whatsoever. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

            P.S. After being put onto the shore near Nineveh, Jonah preached about God and got the entire city (The king also) to repent and seek God.

          • Altaica

            Karolyn:

            I like that one, alien submarine makes a lot more sense. They wouldn’t know what to call it so they would call it a fish. More logical than a fish.

            “October 20, 2011 at 6:58 pm
            Fist of all Altaica, he was delivered to Nineveh. A city of the Assyrian Empire. It is located in Easter Syria/Northern Iraq, so there would be no salt water for him to drink. Second, with God all things are possible. ”

            So what you are saying is the route he took was the Tigris river, as that is the only route that takes one in that direction and is a waterway where one would encounter fish. There are no fish, fossil or extant large enough to hold a man inside. The translations of whale are definitely incorrect as there are no known fresh water whales, so it would have been a fish. Which still means he would not have had oxygen and would still have been digested. Add that to the fact that fish swallow water with their prey and would have likely provided an environment in which drowning was a very real possibility. Add to this that there is a mixing of salt and fresh water from the Tigris salt water marsh system which is part of this system and you again run into salination issues. The submarine makes more sense.”

            “Third, get off of the science nonsense.”

            Science is not nonesense. If you believe that stop using your computer, science. No Tv, science. Only holistic medicine grown in the ground and prepared in the old ways, otherwise medicine is science. No processed foods, science. No food grown with pesticides, chemical fertilizers, etc. That’s science. No house, that’s science. No clothes that are not hand spun and woven, otherwise that is science. If science is non-sense than go back to living in a cave or tree with animal skins or fabrics made by hand and gather your food and kill with your bare hands. Any other means is science!

            ” Science only deals with the physical realm and not the spiritual realm.”

            Mmmm, the spirit is energy. Science does interact with and measure energy therefore some science does deal with some aspects of spirit. By saying spiritual, then you say then that the entirety of Jonah’s trip in the fish was no in the physical realm, but in the spiritual realm. If it was in the physical realm it would be easy to verify and quantity the story. As you claim it happened in only the spirit then only those attuned to the observation of various forms of energy would have been able to witness it and it can not be proven with actual evidence. The submarine still makes more sense.”

            “Karolyn, we both know they had no submarines in those days. What a moronic statement. No intelligence whatsoever.”

            Actually I think her idea is more intelligent than trying to believe someone actually could survive inside a fish without any kind of special systems. Hmm no submarines, that we know of. They also didn’t have batteries or computers either….oh wait, they did. They have found tons of batteries commonly referred to as Bagdad batteries. And then there is The Antikythera Mechanism, sometimes called the world’s first computer. A submarine does not seem so far fetched as a fish. And to people that didn’t know of such a device would certainly call it a fish.

            http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/29/science/30computecnd.html

    • Shawn Brown

      S. C. … I agree with the fact that we ( the church ) is going to be attacked greatly in the future by our govt..and other govts as well. I find it strange you do not want to back some one who you say is a mind dead faith robot. If you believe the truth and nothing but the truth about Jesus Christ of Nazareth…you can die for what you believe in . There is truth…it can be known. The only truths we can be sure of are the scriptures God has already given us…and the truths the Holy Spirit reveals to us as we walk with him daily. You better be serious about your faith in Christ. To say someone is a robot if they blindly follow Christ is wrong. May be you should KNOW what you believe about Christ and why you believe it. There are not many ways to God only one..Christ alone. He is the way and the ONLY truth to follow. Better look into that one buddy. If you met Jesus you would find he was pretty narrow minded in this regard…his way or the highway. Grace freely given…but only through him.

    • Paula

      Romney’s Mormonism is a bit of a problem. It has to do with their broad range of political ideologies.. Romney’s character is flawed for being a conservative. Many of his beliefs are that of a left winged liberal. Make and educated decision please and stop defending the ones that are of the same status quot establishment politicians. These types have only driven us down this hellish path to destruction.. Lets get it right for once.

      The Romney family traces its lineage to the roots of the LDS movement, and today Mitt Romney stands at the pinnacle of wealth and influence in his church. His shape-shifting politics prove that however conservative most Mormons may be, they resemble every other American religious group in tolerating a wide assortment of political views within their ranks — especially among politicians who succeed in achieving power. There are many reasons for concern about Romney’s character — including his hollow dissembling — but religion is not among them.

    • Alan

      As I recall American History in HS, separation of church and state was voted for and sustained because European powers were run by the church. When Kennedy was elected, he did not turn to the Pope for advice and when Nixon was elected he did not turn to the higher ups of Quakerism for advice either. Should Romney win the primaries and go on to becoem our next president I am sure he shall follow in the footsteps of those august leaders of the past and not have the LDS Church dictate to him how to run his job. This land was founded on religious principles andwhen we drift from them we seem to spiral downward. It was Stalin that said the US will cave in from within by failure in religion, morals, or family life. It seems to me we are on shaky ground in all three currently. United means no bickering, it means debate and consessions, it means living with your neighbor whether he is White, Black, Christian of Jewish, not splitting because of differences but rather gaining strength for the diversity of our peoples.

    • Aurelio

      At least Mitt Romney can boast his experience about healthcare more than any other candidate around, on top of his remarkable experience in business and government; balancing a budget without raising taxes and with the extra-load of a democratic legislature in the most liberal state in the Union.
      I haven’t seen a more qualified candidate in years.
      But, republicans can replicate what the dems did four years ago and choose the worst. That will be a very sad day for America.

  • Thinking About

    Religion is a personal choice and should be left to each to decide. As being a personal choice it should not be decided by others, ie, in so many declaring Obama a muslin because his stepfather was. This is silly. You are right in saying a religion does or does not make a good performer. Too often we have made voting decisions based on an outside interest and not on one’s ability to perform the duties required.

    • timchert

      Obama is on video referring “to my Muslim faith.” I wouldn’t doubt a self-proclaimed faith. His actions support it as well!

      • darlene

        If you feel this way about the president who is a Christian. Than Romney shouldn’t run at all. You’re hatred does not represent Christianity either what you think about that?

        • DaveH

          It has nothing to do with hatred, Darlene, and everything to do with honesty. Obama is a dishonest man. For sure, most politicians are, but that doesn’t excuse their immoral behavior.

          • Kate8

            DaveH – That is the bottom line, isn’t it.

            Obama tries to be all things to all people (at least the ones who might possibly vote for him). When he’s speaking to Christians, he claims to be Christian, and when he’s speaking to Muslims, he’s one of them.

            There is ample proof that he was Muslim as a child. Once a Muslim, always a Muslim, under penalty of death. And I haven’t heard of any threats to his life coming from that sector. So one would have to conclude that he must be, indeed, Muslim. Of course, he tries to have it both ways and, according to the prostests coming from the Left, it looks like he does.

            Dishonest. A liar. Period.

          • Villabolo

            Reply to Kate H.:

            “And I haven’t heard of any threats to his life coming from that sector.”

            That would be a stupid thing to do for the person(s) making the threat. Besides, you’re leaping to conclusions, assuming that everyone believes in your proof.

          • Kate8

            Villabolo – Well, LOL, there is no amount of proof that you liberals will accept about your messiah. You have proven yourselves, over and over again, to be quite immune from facts.

            You believe what you choose to believe. You believe whatever Obama says, regardless of evidence.

            There is no way to reason with minds like yours.

          • Kate8

            pla – Really? My comment is awaiting moderation?

            What’s up with this now?

          • Kate8

            pla – Whatever. I guess I can take a hint.

          • JeffH

            Kate8, missed ya! One muslim has made the death threat.

            Khalid Kelly – In May 2011 Irish Muslim militant Khalid Kelly was arrested for threatening to assassinate Barack Obama. In an interview with the Sunday Mirror he said that al-Qaeda was likely to kill Obama on his upcoming trip to Ireland. He reportedly said he would like to do it himself, but was too well known. He stated, “Personally I would feel happy if Obama was killed. How could I not feel happy when a big enemy of Islam is gone?”

          • Old Henry

            Kate:

            As I read Villabolo’s comments wry little smile came across my face asI giddily awaited reading your reply! LOL! This liberal is obviously new here…

            “You have proven yourselves, over and over again, to be quite immune from facts.” I am wondering if they have / use some sort of vaccination. Remember last week’s discussion on those?

          • Old Henry

            JeffH::

            Does that nigwit realize WHO / WHAT would take Little Barry’s place?! LOL!

            Yeah Kate, I was worried ya might have, ah, left the scene. Glad yer back. Anybody know what happened with barbm?

          • JeffH

            Kate8, I had the same problem…my two comments have since been posted.

            I believe that PLD is still experiencing some “technical” problems.

          • libertytrain

            JeffH – I believe Mr. Livingston replied to Eddie about it. Cyber spamming attack going on.

          • Kate8

            JeffH – Thanks for the info.

            I guess it wouldn’t really matter, because, like Christians, Muslims are diverse in their beliefs according to their particular sect.

            Unlike Christians, who just disagree with each other (and maybe badmouth a bit), Muslims kill those with whom they disagree, even amonst themselves.

            Obama seems to believe in that, too.

          • Dan az

            Villabolo
            Can you provide any proof on what you say?There has been plenty of evidence that there has been attempts on his life from just people on this side but none so far as islamist.Can you provide us with your proof?

          • http://naver samurai

            Isn’t Villabolo the name of an illegal alien? FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • eddie47d

            That is a prejudice statement and hardly true.

          • http://naver samurai

            It’s just a question ed-duh, so let’s not go off of the deep end. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

        • meteorlady

          Darlene – when was the last time he went to a Christian church? Before the election. If you go to YouTube you can find numerous instances where he proclaim himself to be Muslim or called these people his Muslim brothers. It surely is him or else they have a pretty good look alike doing the talking.

          • alanjo55

            Through previous inspection, we have found that Joseph Smith’s story doesn’t stand when compared to the truth of God’s Word. This is how we know it is only a story invented by him. God has given clear instruction that people don’t turn into angels as mormons teach that Moroni turned into an angel after he died and appeared to Joseph Smith. God won’t break His Word. This is why we know that moroni never became an angel or appeared before Joseph Smith.

            The logical conclusions are:

            1. The authority of the Bible teaches that dead people don’t turn into angels.
            2. Since dead people don’t turn into angels, Moroni never became an angel.
            3. Since Moroni never became an angel, he never appeared before Joseph Smith.
            4. Since Moroni never appeared before Joseph Smith, Moroni never gave any instructions to Joseph Smith about gold plates, book of mormon, priesthood, pre-existent state, etc.
            5. Since Moroni never gave any instructions to Joseph Smith, the instructions attributed to Moroni by Joseph Smith were fabricated by Joseph Smith himself.
            6. Since Joseph Smith fabricated the Moroni story, it hinders the authority of Joseph Smith’s words and testimony and cannot be taken as factual truth

            Mitt Romney is part of a group called Mormons which consists of false foundations with past and future mythologies. Mormonism has many similarities with Islam. We have experienced Obama who was raised a muslim and sat under teaching for 20 yrs from an advocate of Black Liberation Theology. As bad as Obama is can Romney equal him? Not likely. Obama hates Israel and the Jews but Mormons usually favor Israel and the Jews which is a huge benefit. On that point, voting for a Mormon may have that benefit. It may not be constructive to fear Mormon mythologies which will never happen like Romney becoming a god, living on his own spirit earth. having spirit children with his wife who will have eternal diaper changing and eating spirit vegetables which are some things Mormons believe. Still, a Mormon leader could have negative affects.

          • Belinda

            One of the jobs of an angel is to be a messenger from God to man. Since that is the case anyone who has died can be sent to anyone living with a message whenever God says so. In such a case that person would be called an angel since he is a messenger from God.The term angel can mean more than just one thing. Since God can do anything He wants who are we to say He didn’t?

        • JC

          darlene says:
          October 19, 2011 at 8:18 am
          If you feel this way about the president who is a Christian.

          Which president? Obama? He’s no Christian at best he’s Muslim and at worst a Communist…but a Christian, he ain’t!

    • Dntmkmecmoverther

      Your point is well versed. But here is a question: How will a president decide what is truth and what is not? How will they decide what it Good and what is Evil? Their belief system always is their guide (along with lobbyists I suppose…) Given the choice, I would rather be ruled by those who believe in Jesus rather than Joseph Smith, Buddha or some other false god…for if they will fall for the lie of a false god, how do I know that they won’t fall for the lies of congress and the senate? (and the lobbyists…). Funny, that’s what our founders thought as well.

      • Altaica

        Even animals that have no religion know what is right or wrong. One does not need to be religious in order to understand what is fair and unfair, what is good for their society and what is detrimental. The last several presidents were Christians and failures. They are corrupt, money grabbing liars that certainly don’t embody the generosity and kindness of Jesus the shaman’s teachings. It is easier for a camel to fit through the eye of a needle than a rich man to enter heaven and all that.

        • eyeswideopen

          Correction. The last few presidents “claimed” to be a christian. Here’s the real test. If they say that there is more than one way to heaven (which Obama and Bush have both done) than they are not christians. This is the crux of biblical faith and Christ said He was the “only” way, and the “only” door. What a person believes has everything to do with how he lives his life, and yes, lead a country. Mormons believe that Jesus is the spirit brother of Lucifer and believe that they will become Gods. Romney is already on the path of destruction and I for one have no desire to follow him there.

          • Karolyn

            No one can tell another if they are Christian or not. Just like no one can tell another if they are an alcoholic or not. Many would deny that Catholics are Christian, but just try to tell a Catholic that. Anyone who believes that Jesus Christ is the son of God and that he died for our sins can rightly call themselves a Christian. Whether they are a good one or not is another story.

          • LindyMaeUSA

            eyeswideopen: “What a person believes has everything to do with how he lives his life, and yes, lead a country.”

            You are ABSOLUTELY CORRECT in every aspect of your posting and kudos to you my dear for that simple logic ANYONE should be able to understand!

            Because of my re-generation and BELIEFS in the one, true God of this universe, I willingly dedicated fifteen years during the “prime” of my life to serving Him in the mission field of East Africa by providing food, shelter, clothing, education, medical care and Christian LOVE to helpless children in an orphanage my husband and I founded and administrated strictly BY FAITH in God’s never-ending provision.

            He didn’t “order, demand or threaten” us to leave our home, family and Country…He simply “asked” us to go and we went without questions or complaints, considering ourselves blessed and PRIVILEGED to be His servants and we did all that BECAUSE OF our beliefs and “HOW we wanted to live our lives!

        • independant thinker

          “It is easier for a camel to fit through the eye of a needle than a rich man to enter heaven and all that.”

          I do not know how you mean it but this quote is often used to represent Jesus as saying a rich man cannot go to Heaven. Jesus said no such thing. The “eye of the needle” he refers to was a small gate in the wall of the walled cities of the time. At nightfall the large main gate would be closed and locked and people had to use the small gate. The small gate was just large enough for an unloaded camel to pass thru on its knees of course an individual could pass easily but only one or perhaps two at a time. So, what Jesus is saying is while it can be diffucult for a rich man to go to Heaven it is not impossible.

          • Jana

            Independant thinker,
            You are so right. If the rich man loves his riches over God, then he would have a hard time getting to heaven unless he repents. Many times however, God blesses men with riches. There is nothing wrong with being rich.

          • Altaica

            Got any Archaeological information on that? I was taught when I was a christian that it was just that, the eye of a sewing needle, not a gateway. I’ve not heard this particular take, if that is the case then there should be some archaeological evidence of this. There is no mention of this type of gateway in all the roman documents I have read so it would have been something likely endemic to the middle east. I am interested to see the archaeological research and documented history from many middle eastern sources about these structures.

        • http://naver samurai

          The last few presidents were Christians in name only and Jesus was no shaman. He is the Son of God. Don’t forget that the current potus is a muslim. Your faith and belief has a lot to do with how you think, act, and lead. If you don’t know that, then you are lost. Also, since when can animals think? They don’t possess the intelligence to know right from wrong. Stop telling lies with these old arguements. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

        • Altaica

          I recall the current pope saying that Catholicism was the only Christianity shortly after he became pope.

          • libertytrain

            Gee that’s contrary to all the folks that keep stating on this site that Catholics aren’t Christian. Hmmm. Go figure. :)

          • http://naver samurai

            Care to cite a source or is this another falsehood? FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Altaica

            Read the news. Like the holocaust you can’t ignore it and hope it goes away. I heard over a radio news broadcast shortly after the new pope was anointed.

            And here is an article that relates to it:

            http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19692094/ns/world_news-europe/t/pope-other-denominations-not-true-churches/#.TqGHXpuaS40

            In essence by the popes actions and words he feels the only true church is the Roman Catholic one.

      • Ann

        To set the record straight Mormons DO believe in Jesus. I have a very good friend who is Mormon and her childhood church experience was very much like mine, and I went to the local Baptist church. To this day she is no different than any of my relatives or friends in relation to her to her beliefs.

        I personally don’t think religion should be a factor other than muslim, that is the only religion I can’t wrap my head around, but for me Romney is too much of liberal in a conservative field.

        • Kate8

          By the time someone has gained enough support from BIG MONEY and the media to be a presidential frontrunner, it should be clear where his loyalties really lie. One has to sacrifice principle to get the nod from the PTB, because only their choices stand a chance of being elected (selected).

          If you doubt this, just look at Ron Paul. He is marginalized and ingored by the media, so even those who would support him are afraid to vote for him for fear of casting a throw-away vote. I’m already hearing “anyone but Obama” from the conservative sector.

          • Altaica

            I’m voting for Paul even if I have to write his name in on the ballot.

            Hey, Kate8 what was the name of those indoor growing systems you told me about. I’m very close to closing on a house with a very large basement, I’d like to get a system set up in the future.

          • Kate8

            Altaica – Are you talking about sprouts? That is the only indoor growing I ever mentioned here.

            Just search “sprouts” or “sprouting” and you should get several. In any case, it’s easy. All you really need is a mason jar with a sprouting lid, which you can make yourself with a ring and some mesh.

            There are other systems, too, especially if you aren’t around enough to keep them rised well (they can grow fungus and molds). I was just given a wheat-grass juicer, but with grass you have to be really cautious about molds.

            If you do a little research you can surely find the system that is best suited for your needs.

            Congrats on the house! Let me know how things work out.

          • Old Henry

            “it should be clear where his loyalties really lie.”

            Unless you are Little Barry, Kate.

            The sad part is that the electorate allows the MSM to lead them around by the nose. We seem to be a nation of lazy-assed people who can’t, or won’t, do any independent thinking.

          • Altaica

            I’ll have to look into that. Mason jars are cheap too. I’m itching to try Lupin Sprouts. I’ve read they are particularly good for diabetics, easy to sprout and are heartier than traditional alfalfa and bean sprouts.

            Hmm, If I grew wheat grass my cat would eat it before I got to it :) He’s such a naughty boy.

        • Brian

          Anyone can say they believe in Jesus. But you must ask them, “Tell me about this Jesus you believe in?” When you ask a Mormon this question you will find out that they do not believe in the Jesus of the Chrisitan Bible.

          • Old Henry

            That is correct Brian. They do not believe that Jesus Christ is God.

            Anyone who is so far out there mentally as Romney who believes he will become a god with his own planet I really do not want him in the WH with his finger “on the button”.

            Mormons are delusional.

          • Song

            Really Old Henry and Brian. How many Mormons do you know? Personally.

          • JC

            I’ve known many moromons in my life and they were all solid people.
            That they get their religion out of a hat is something I don’t ask them about…and everything else is fine.

            That’s not an endorsement of RINO Romney though…

          • Old Henry

            Well Song, I have had Mormons come to my door several times in the last year and I have pintedly asked them about their beliefs. That is what they have told me. One was the pastor at the local LDS church.

          • Song

            Old Henry fyi: Mormons don’t have pastors.

      • J.Powell

        Just to clarify, I am a Mormon and we do not worship Joseph Smith. He is a modern day prophet of God like many other prophets God has used to speak to man during the history of this earth. He re-established Christ’s church when it was lost through the direction of Jesus Christ (protestants also believe truth was lost) It is a church of the restoration of Jesus Christ’s church. We believe Jesus Christ is our Savior and the head of our church. ”Mormon” is a nickname. The name of my church is, ”The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints”. A lot of religious men got together one day and voted what the Godhead is and men have voted what defines a Christian. Personally, I do not think men can vote on eternal truths and make it so. They cannot vote who is Christian and who is not. No man is qualified to vote that I am not a Christian or that Mitt Romney is not a Christian or any other ”Mormon” or other person who professes a belief in Jesus Christ and a faith in Him as their Savior. I say I am a Christian and Mormons are Christian and who are you or anyone else to tell me I am not? I am proud to be a Christian no matter what any man says about me. I will continue to try to follow Jesus Christ the best I am able in spite of this great insult and untruth. I can be saved through Jesus Christ alone and no man’s vote can save me or keep me from being saved.
        I would like to also chime in on the advice to vote for the most qualified person including honest good values. I personally am still weighing in on who is best and will be up until the primary vote. There are a lot of good men and women running. This is a very important decision. I wont be voting for Mitt Romney just because he is a ”Mormon” any more than black people should vote for Obama just because he is black. We must look at the ability of the candidate to lead us correctly. We must take this decision very seriously and study it out carefully and prayerfully. J.

        • Altaica

          I’m curious, so Does LDS return to all the gospels and books that the Nicea council voted out of the bible? Is that the vote you are talking about.

          • Americansurvivor

            wow- Altaica… did the point go over your head? You are out there!

          • Kate8

            All of the churches have fabricated doctrine, including Mormons. In my opinion, they all have some teachings and beliefs that are pretty “out there”.

            What’s important is our relationship with our Creator. It’s a personal thing, and none of us has the right to judge another’s faith, nor force anyone into accepting ours.

            When electing a leader, we certainly don’t want someone who will allow their religious beliefs to determine their decisions, except insofar as they affect their fidelity to the duties of their office. It’s better to have a person who believes in being held accountable, as opposed to tyrannical religious beliefs.

            It’s no better having people who shun all concepts of God, accountability and morality. They are at least as dangerous as any religious zealot, as the current lot would attest to.

            The bottom line is, I suppose, that human beings are inherently guided by whatever they believe, so the best belief they can hold is the belief that every man is free to choose for himself, and operate within the confines of just law.

            Too bad that idea just doesn’t exist much anymore.

          • Dan az

            Two thumbs up on that one kate!

          • Altaica

            AmericanSurvivor:

            The point that there are different views and propaganda about each religion? I asked an honest question that I was looking for an answer for. I know from the history books I have read that there were a number of gospels and books left out of the bible by vote by the Nicea council. I was simply wondering if it was that vote he was referring to and if the Book of Mormon actually included these ancient texts. Esoterica is interesting to me and I do want to read the books not included in the modern Bible. I want to see what was in them. I know the times were turbulent and I don’t know if all of these texts were even preserved.

            Kate8: Well said. I think some people are trying to get back to that. Accountability needs to be brought back. As an apprentice shaman I was taught that accountability is part of walking the path. I already believed firmly in this, so not a problem with this. She actually recommended a good little book that I keep at work and re-read from time to time. QBQ: The Question Behind the Question by John G Miller. It’s an easy read and is about practicing Personal Accountability at work and in life.

          • J.Powell

            Yes, the Nicean Council is one of many instances where this sort of thing has occurred. The Book of Mormon contains and reinforces truths found in the Bible, such as that Jesus is The Christ and Savior of Mankind. We believe there are many sources of truth in addition to the Bible and Book of Mormon but my church has not specifically cannonized them as our scripture. We believe God has spoken to mankind all throughout time and continues to do so and records exist of this. Some of those records have been tampered with by men as they have been copied, translated, etc. The Book of Mormon does not contain the gospels you referred to. It is another testiment of Jesus Christ as he visited the Americas after his resurrection. He likely visited other of his people on the Earth too at that time. ”Other sheep have I which are not of this fold” A summary of what my churches’ doctorine says of the Apocrypha, (or the lost gospels) follows:
            The Apocrypha is mostly translated correctly but contains many interpolations by the hands of men that are not true; It benefits those enlightened by the Spirit. This last portion about being enlightened by the spirit refers to our belief that we are each entitled to personal revelation from God through his spirit to know truth if we ask in faith with real intent. I hope this is helpful to you in your search for truth. J.

          • Altaica

            Thanks J. Powell,

            I’ll have to do more research into it. I have heard it said from some that Jesus came to the native Americans. With an oral tradition it is harder to correlate these things, along with the fact that a number of tribes have been wiped out. My Great Great Grandmothers included. It makes it hard to find some information. If he did he may have been known by another name, but in all likely hood he would have been referred to as a shaman or medicine man in Native cultures.

        • Jonathan R

          Well said!

        • Old Henry

          J.Powell:

          The best and most accurate way to determine who to vote for is to use the MSM as a reverse barometer. Anyone they get behind – Romney / Perry are bad and should be eliminated from your choices.

          If you look at the way the MSM ingnore / ridicule Paul and Johnson then you would make the obvious conclusion they are the best.

          Never forget the MSM are comunists at heart.

          • Song

            The media ignore Ron Paul because he doesn’t have a prayer of getting nominated.

      • Karolyn

        What? A Buddhist, Taoist, Hindu, or any other non-Christian person, as well as an atheist, does not know the difference between right and wrong?????

        • Kate8

          Karolyn – They all might know the difference between right and wrong. They just might not all agree on what IS right and wrong.

          It’s all according to the belief system one subscribes to.

          In some cultures, it all right to leave a newborn out in the elements to die, if it’s a girl or is defective. In others, it’s okay to kill people with different beliefs, or beat their wives and kill their daughters, or practice mutilation on children.

          There are all kinds of ideas about what’s right/wrong. In this country we used to have one standard, but now that we all live the joys of multiculturalism, the lines have become blurred. So by who’s standards are we to measure?

          • http://naver samurai

            I understand what you are saying Kate8. Diversity means disunity and keeps people seperated and not united. We should go by the ways we were founded and no other. One culture, set of laws, language, etc., is what holds a people together as a nation, not multiculturalism. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Altaica

            That’s the big question I think. I think it is one answered with by what is for the greater good of the majority. I think Life, liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness expressed this. As a country any action that harms another’s rights is in violation and should not be allowed. I think each religion makes some sort of concessions in order to live in peace in this country. We abolished slavery because of these principles and if we refer to those three core rights of our country it stands to reason that we could determine appropriate acts and behaviors. We would not tolerate people leaving a child out in the elements to die, because that act takes away that child’s right to life. We would not allow beatings because that takes away a persons right of happiness and could take away their right of life. It’s a very simple measurement system that our founders left us with and I think if it was used more often in measuring our laws we’d be in a lot less of a mess. Even with different cultures & religions we could have unity by simply following those three principles.

          • http://naver samurai

            Those 3 Christian founding principles. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Altaica

            Samurai:

            You’re persistent I’ll give you that, but those are not Christian in origin. They are principles that have existed long before your faith. They are good principles, which is why many faiths use them, but sorry they are far older than Christianity’s existence. Ancient Shamans followed these principles, that puts the origin of these principles at least 60,000 years old, predating Christianity by a good 58,000 years. I am glad they are included in your faith, they are good principles.

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          We all know right from wrong Karolyn. Being made by God, it is in us, that we know right from wrong. We are born into sin, ever since the fall of man in the Garden of Eden, where man did the one thing, the only thing that God told Him not to do. One command, and man couldnt abide by it, and sin entered in. But we know right from wrong. Some call it “their conscience”. But we know right from wrong. It is born into us by our creator.

          • http://naver samurai

            Well said and true! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

    • independant thinker

      I remember well When Kennedy ran for president the first time. Much was made about him being Catholic and being subject to following orders from the Pope or facing ex-communication. As far as I know the Pope never tried to tell Kennedy he HAD to do anything so the point is moot but it is interesting to speculate what Kennedy would have done if the situation had come up. Would he have followed the Pope’s orders or his oath the the Constitution?

      • Honestly

        Not being part of that how can you be certain.

        • Ret

          He never paid much attention to the 10 Commandments, so why would he pay any attention to the pope?

        • independant thinker

          I did say speculate so it would only be a guess especially this long after the fact and this far removed from the circumstance.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Gee, you know he didnt follow the Pope’s unspoken order not to cheat on his wife and have sex with many, many women outside of his marriage, now did he? So why would he listen on another point like that?

    • Exwave

      You are right, Religion is a personal choice, but do you live that Faith which you proclaim? And what does that “Religion” proclaim? We have to make good judgments of people we don’t know personally. So the more we know about a person and what he believes/ practices, that makes sound judgments more likely. Read the first chapter of the Book of Mormon, and see how many times it contradicts Jesus Himself.

    • moonbeam

      I think we had better start paying attention to one’s religious, personal and political beliefs. I believe they are as important as one’s ability to run a whole nation. Nobody paid attention to Obama’s beliefs and look where we are now. A man who is intent on destroying America from within and to lie at the drop of a hat to the “enemy”, just as his religion teaches.

      His words are mere rhetoric and say nothing, but his actions speak volumes.

  • Angel Wannabe

    Good article John!_I especially agree that a Presidential nominee, being humbled enough and has the ability to believe in something larger than themselves. Without a strong belief in God, egos run amok and power eventually corrupts absolutely!_

    sc Although Romney is not my pick for a nominee, I wouldn’t discount Romney, he’s a strong contender. I also believe he’s the Progressive pick. I agree his Massacare was the blueprint for Obamacare, no doubt about it, that’s going to hurt him. He has enough in his past to overcome.
    BTW, I realize this piece isn’t about the Debate last night, but I’ve about had enough of the “Perry Romney Hour”. Perry’s way down in the polls and has it in for Romney. This bickering distracts from the real reason they’re there, which is to discuss they’re personal plans in what’s best for the Country.

    • DaveH

      What’s best for the country is Ron Paul.
      Get our Freedom back in 2012.

      • Altaica

        I agree whole-heartedly!

      • Tom H.

        DaveH, I think that Ron Paul’s ideas on fiscal policy are dead-spot-right-on. I do, however, think that he is, at best, delusional about foreign policy. That foreign policy thing is why I believe that he has never done that well in the polls thus far.
        In any event, I believe John is right, religion, unless it is imposed on us by a president, or anyone in office, should not be a factor in desiding on who should or should not run for and get elected to the presidency.

        • Kate8

          Tom H. – Gee, the foreign policy we’ve had so far has served us so well, hasn’t it.

          I don’t think Paul is delusional at all. In fact, he is a voice of sanity in an insane world, on many issues.

          • OB1

            Kate8:
            Where the heck you been! I knew you needed to be in on this one; it’s very important! You are a very well read, stalwart person! Meyers opened the “proverbial” can of worms! Good! Missed your input….

          • Kate8

            Hey, OB1. I was just getting tired of the same old debates every day, and the same old irritating liberals repeating the same old talking points.

            Thought I pop in and what’s up. Glad you are still here.

          • OB1

            Missed you Kate8. Knew you should be in on this debate. It is certainly NOT over yet. The regular trolls (some) disappeared and one or two cam back with “new names”. Who cares. However, I do appreciate your insight and input and on this one, in particular, I thought it was important. I still do. There are a few here I read all their links. And of course, that leads to finding out more history, more truth as well as the pain of more lies (or should I say, disinformation). This is changing the course of my faith, my “spirituality”, and my career as well. Unfortunately, I am nowhere near retirement (but my parents did not believe in retirement and passed “away” still WORKING! Very elderly I might proudly add! Here, we are all so different, however, BL and this site does actually allow a cross conversation on very significant issue. I don’t like it when it turns to pablem either. But his one was definitely a keeper. Because of the national demographics of this country, we all live all over the US. This forum, at least for now, allows a national collection of supportive, questioning and opposing views as well as “trolls”. Perhaps the WWIII is really just an info war. Very spiritual. Perhaps, that is why this article attracted such great attention. Values matter, and where those values come from is important and relevant. World view is shaped by one’s spiritual, knowledge, experience, wisdom and “INSIGHT” from all of the former!
            Glad to have you back. Was off this site myself for a few weeks.
            Glad you are well versed in what you know, and look forward to challenging some of your insights and embracing others! World view and values ARE important, and it is WORTH the conversation! We are all so spread out! Everywhere! Even families now!

        • DaveH

          Was Thomas Jefferson delusional, Tom? He was very much against Foreign Entanglements of any kind.
          Ron Paul wants to trade freely with other countries and butt out of their politics, thus making friends. The Militarists want to impose their politics on other countries, thus making enemies (as well as impoverishing our country). Some day the actions of the Militarists will come home to roost. It happens to all great empires.
          Ron Paul is a logical thinker, moral (doesn’t believe in killing people other than in self-defense), and abides by the law (the Constitution). There is no provision in the Constitution for the Federal Government to war against other countries simply because we don’t like their politics.
          That may seem delusional to some brainwashed sheeple, but it is far from delusional.

          • Capitalist at Birth

            His statement during one of the debates, regarding Iran getting nuclear bombs was stupid at best, and will insure that he does not get the nomination. The only possibility of Ron Paul being elected President is if he runs as an independent, which could insure the re-election of Obama.

          • Altaica

            We used to keep our fingers out of those pies and just enjoy ours. We need to pull away from all this foreign politicing and just fix our problems here at home.

          • Kate8

            Capitalist – LOL. Isn’t it admirable that Obama has never made a stupid statement! (You’ve got to be kidding, right?)

            At some time, every single one of them make statements that someone would determine to be stupid. If not making stupid statements was a requirment for holding office, who would serve? Certainly not the current Idiot in Chief!

          • DaveH

            Then you will think the same of my statement, Capitalist.
            The US holds more Nuclear Weapons then any other country except Russia.
            The US is the only country to have ever used Nuclear Weapons.
            The US is in every other country’s business constantly with over 900 military bases around the world.
            Our own country is the one to fear around the world. How hypocritical can we get, telling other countries what weapons they can have?

            If Iran dared to use those weapons belligerently, they would be turned into a sheet of glass.
            It amazes me how quickly people will give up their principles when they get scared.

        • JeffH

          Tom H., speaking of foreign policy, Judge Napolitano pointed out last night that the US has 900 military bases in foreign countries…900! He also pointed out that the US has 100 troops in Uganda…Uganda?

          Vote Ron Paul 2012!

          • Dan az

            Jeff
            What is this now we have to be England all over again?The sun never sets on us?It seems the sheeple would rather have us as the aggressor and force this NWO down their throughts.Yea lets just elect someone to keep things the way they are besides I think that obumer is doing such a good job maybe we should just re elect him.LOL

          • JeffH

            Brother Dan, go figure! I wonder why so many people can moan and grown about our government and still rely on the MSM for their source of news and then support someone like a Mitt Romney, Perry or a Newt Gingrich. Same-O, same-O.

            Ron Paul has a 30+ year record that is easily verified…oh well, you can’t fix stupid!

          • OB1

            Without approval of congress, again! Puppet!

          • Altaica

            Why are we in Uganda?! The US just needs to stop. I bet we could save a lot of money if we shut down those bases.

          • http://naver samurai

            Bush tried bringing home our troops from Western Europe in his second term, but the libs wouldn’t let him. If he did, then he would have to reopen bases around the U.S. to house them. Maybe we could have put them in the Southwest and help with the illegals coming across the boarder. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            Though I think that it is important we have a strong military, and I think it is important we maintain some strategic military bases abroad, it is rediculous that we have 900 bases everywhere and anywhere, and we need to stop it, and stop it now. During World War II it was probably necessary we set up shop in German and France for a little while, but what purpose does it do to keep those bases their now spending billions to have them? Do we really still need to be in Okinawa? Or like the poster wrote here, in Uganda? We protect billionaire countries like Saudi Arabia, and we dont even get oil for payment. It costs us billions. Why do it. Run this place like a business, and make them pony up the billions to pay for the protection we deliver, or have them ship us free oil, one or the other. We waste far too much money in setting up bases in foreign countries where we need not be anymore, and its high time to stop the madness.

        • ChristyK

          Ron Paul’s ideas are very logical if you think through all the implications of our current military policy which has actually made us less safe, not more safe (read the history of the past 100 years and Thomas Jefferson’s writings for more info). If Ron Paul was so wrong about our military policy, then why do more military personel donate to Ron Paul than all other candidates combined?

        • texastwin827

          Tom, I hate to break the news to you but with the exception of all the CNN polls who interjected Sarah Palin even though she wasn’t a declared candidate (and finally stated such) Ron Paul has been #3 including consistently being ahead of Michelle Bachmann…but you would never know it because the media doesn’t tell you that, now do they?

          The media depends heavily on the American people’s laziness and that they won’t google the polls.

          • OB1

            Media sites started blocking polling after last night’s debate! Disgusting.

          • Old Henry

            texastwinn:

            There have been several polls in August that put Ron Paul at #1 and polls showing he would beat Little Barry.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            The best person to vote for, is either the one the news doesnt talk about at all, or more so, the one they attack and demonize the most, because thats the one their left wing liberals are afraid of and know they cant stand up to and beat. At this moment, it appears this person is Rick Perry. They are scared to death of him just like they were Sarah Palin when she was a candidate.

      • Jibbs

        YES! he is our last chance.

      • Old Henry

        Dave, if Dr. Paul was elected, given his age, do you think he would run for a second term? I guess given his age that is one of the best reasons to have Gary Johnson as VEEP.

      • LindyMaeUSA

        Amen, DaveH . . . any suggestions as to HOW we can do that?

        Referring to my “belief system,” consistent prayer would be the most powerful “starting point!”

        “Pray without ceasing…” (I Thess. 5:17)

        :-)

    • Old Henry

      “This bickering distracts from the real reason they’re there, which is to discuss they’re personal plans in what’s best for the Country.

      And Angel, is really what the “bickering” is all about – distraction.

      I too am sick and tired of the Perry / Romney thing, but I never liked either one anyway.

  • Insurgent

    The problem with too many of these potential candidates is pure and simple: They are professional lying polititicans out to take care of their own greedy interests and the interests of their wealthy friends that help with their campaign funds.
    So far the only non-lying political candidate is: Herman Cain.

    • SMSgt Z retired Nam 68

      Herman Cain’s 999 plan could really be the 666 plan.
      Ron Paul is starting to look better and better

      • dvanilla

        It does not matter who run for president. Everyone thinks all presidents are the anti-Christ. You do not have to be in a high position to be anti-Christ. Which indicates you need to check and make sure you don’t hold the numbers 666.

        • Kate8

          Whoever gets enough press to have a shot at POTUS has got to be part of the antichrist system, or he wouldn’t have their support.

          It doesn’t really matter who they say they are or what they claim to believe. What matters is who’s behind them.

          • Song

            You know…I am sorry, but it is this kind of ‘poppycock’ nonsense that makes it difficult to take any of you seriously. Anyone who runs for president is the anti-christ? I think not.

          • independant thinker

            Song perhaps you need to retake reading and COMPREHENSION. No one has said the president is the anti-christ. One said he is perceived that way by many and the other said you have to have the support of the anti-christ organization to become president.

          • Song

            Stated by Kate8: “Whoever gets enough press to have a shot at POTUS has got to be part of the antichrist system, or he wouldn’t have their support.”

            Care to point out where I am wrong independent????

          • independant thinker

            “Part of the system” Song “Part of the system”. That is NOT saying the president is the anti-christ.

          • Kate8

            Song – “the antichrist system” is just a term describing an organized system of corruption, inherently evil and tyrannical, and is tightly controlling our political system, the media and every other aspect of life today.

            Christ taught freedom and justice. You know, like the golden rule.

            Those in control stand for none of those things. Therefore, they are “antichrist”.

            Grow up.

          • OB1

            Anti-christ isn’t just a person, it’s a philosophy.. there have been many. Research your history for 2000 years!

            1 John 2:18

            King James Version (KJV)

            18Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

          • bob wire

            Jesus taught Freedom and Justice

            Hmm? I won’t said that he didn’t but I sure don’t remember much about it if he did.

          • Kate8

            bw – Christ told us to live by God’s Commandments. He told us to treat others as we would want to be treated. He told us that the most important Commandment is to love God and love our fellow man.

            If this doesn’t equate to teaching us that freedom and justice is for all, I don’t know what does.

            He also told us that evil would rule the world for a time, and that we should not be part of it.

          • OB1

            Kate*, spirit of anti Christ has been around since the times of Jesus. He spoke of this. There have been many. I believe too m any Christians have been led astry be the belief of one anti Christ and the “Rapture” of the body of Christian believers. This belief has led many astray and to very callous and falsely secure. DaveH posted this many, many months ago about the socialist revolution in Russia. I simply did not know. This has led to many other incredible discoveries. I am prejudiced against no one unless they are threatening me, and mine or my country. Want you to research this:

            http://www.pgorg.com/russianholocaust.html

            Lot’s more history to go with this. More later.

        • Song

          “Everyone thinks all presidents are the anti-Christ. You do not have to be in a high position to be anti-Christ. Which indicates you need to check and make sure you don’t hold the numbers 666.”

          Is this part of the “system” too Independent? Irregardless, I don’t agree with either assertion. Whether you are calling the “system” the anti-christ or the POTUS the anti-christ…I don’t agree with you. My opinion. And in my opinion, it just makes people who spout this drive, seem like radicals…

          • Kate8

            Song – And you seem hyper-reactive.

            Would you feel better if people just said “evil” instead?

            Good grief.

          • Old Henry

            Song:

            There is no such word as Irregardless.

          • libertytrain

            kind of -
            http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/irregardless
            one of those acceptable non-real words….

          • Kate8

            Old H – :) :)

    • Tazio2013

      Cain may not be lying but he is definitely making it up as he speaks and frequently says some incredibly stupid statements which indicates he hasn’t a clue re the things that matter. The only Republican worth voting for is Ron Paul, and he’s a Libertarian!

      • darlene

        At least Cain can distinguish between racism and true lies. What about the N-word posted on a rock for decades as the governor of Texas been in office. You reminds me of that scripture when Jesus said, “they would think good is bad and bad is good.”

        • libertytrain

          I’m not a Perry fan, but as I understand it that property was a rental property and that when Perry’s father/family rented it or bought it, they immediately removed it from the rock – you’re making something out of a really nothing story…as many did.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            That is the way liberals roll. They spin the story to fit their agenda.

        • DaveH

          Darlene,
          It’s too bad that people can’t just be respectful to each other, but the best thing we could all do is just grow some skin. I’ve been called all sorts of names by Blacks, but I just chuckle and ignore it.
          I think by not following Martin Luther King’s advice (be colorblind) we are actually keeping the racism going. Without Government giving special protections to certain classes of people, thus causing resentment, people would eventually get over their ignorant prejudices.
          My father, for instance, used to lecture us kids constantly about our childhood biases, but then along came Equal Opportunity. He was a Foreman and many of the blacks working for him took full advantage of the legal protections, slacking off as much as they could. After that, he became very biased, and the roles were reversed, as we kids then spent much of our time lecturing him to not judge everybody by a few bad apples.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            I remember very clearly Dave, Martin Luther King pleading with all, to “judge a man not by the color of his skin, but by the content of his character”. This made perfect sense to me, on all levels. Then enter our wonderful government inteference, who then instituted all kinds of laws to give preference to some because of the color of their skin and turn away others because of the color of their skin. All this did was promote racial strife, and it continues to this day. Another example of what government interference does.

        • JeffH

          Ron Paul had a great answer to the CNN Debate question regarding illegal immigration and the latino vote…

          Ron Paul message to Latinos CNN Las Vegas Debate 10/18/2011 & video
          http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=2ed_1318998568&comments=1

          Anderson Cooper’s question to Ron Paul:
          Congressman Paul, there are some Latino voters who believe that some of these strong anti-immigration laws — anti-illegal immigration laws are actually anti-Latino laws.
          What do you say to them?

          REP. PAUL: Well, I think some people do believe that. I think a fence is symbolic of that, and I can understand why somebody might look at that. But when we approach this immigration problem, we should look at the incentives, and that are the mandates from the federal government saying that you must educate and must give them free education. You have to remove these incentives. But I don’t think the answer is a fence, whatsoever.
          But in order to attract Latino votes, I think — you know, too long, this country has always put people in groups. They penalize people because they’re in groups, and then they reward people because they’re in groups.
          But following up on what Newt was saying, we need a healthy economy. We wouldn’t be talking about this. We need to see everybody as an individual. And to me, seeing everybody as an individual means their liberties are protected as individuals and they are treated that way and they’re never penalized that way. So if you have a free and prosperous society, all of a sudden this group mentality melts away.
          As long as there’s no abuse — one place where there’s still a lot of discrimination in this country is in our court systems, and I think the minorities come up with a short hand in our court system. (Applause.)

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            I have to totally disagree with the last part of this, and Ill tell you why, and its all true fact. How are the minorities shorted in the legal system? Come on man. I worked at a place where we made baseball cards that went into cereal boxes. After the run was done and shipped complete, myself and about 20 others dug through these scrap boxes and made our selves up some sets of cards, as these were all to be destroyed. 2 years later, while the cards were still being printed, someone stole a bunch and sold them to some guy who was selling them at a flea market in Cleveland, before Post even had them in the boxes. So a witch hunt goes out, and someone drops my name to the company that they saw me taking some 2 years ago. They send the cops to my house, to which I gave them the 2 year old cards, and figured that was that. I was fired the next day. 2 years after that, Im in court being accused of stealing these cards and selling them to the guy in Cleveland, which I didnt do. Even my lawyer suggested I take a plea bargain and take 1-1/2 years of probation, because they wanted this time in jail. I informed him that I would go to jail before I would plead guilty to doing something I didnt do, and I held to my values, and would not take their offer. They backed down and I agreed to plead guilty to possesion of stolen property, because after all, even though they were throwing them away, they were their property, and I did steal them. So the point is, I get 1-1/2 years of jail suspended, 1-1/2 years of probation in its place. And 100 hours of community service. Now, here is where the problem I have comes in. I was one of two white guys doing this community service. Us two, and this one black man, were the only 3 who had jobs, had houses, and were of value to the system. They reamed us. This guy knew all these guys that were there with us, and he would tell me about the rap sheets these guys had, where for instance, one guy had armed robbery, grand theft auto, drug possession, selling controlled substances, assault and battery, and many more offense. This time he got caught selling an 8 ball of cocaine. You know what this guy got? 20 hours of community service. Thats it. Why? Because he doesnt work, and he doesnt own anything or even have an address. Now given, it probably would have been that way too if he were white, but there were around 20 guys in my group, and they were all minorities, and the legal system just continues to slap them on the wrist, because they have nothing to get from them. But my white butt was reamed. Oh yeah, and less I forget to add, when this happened, I was a 32 year old, with no record at all, not even a driving infraction, and I also received a felony conviction for this. So having a first hand look at the legal system, and having talked to others I know in other states, it seems to be nationwide, that minorities are given a break by the system, especially if they arent working or dont own a house or property anywhere. I do not believe for a minute they are picked on because of their minority status, as I was there for quite a while doing my 100 hours, and I witnessed it first hand.

    • edward baptiste

      I’m afraid you are quite incorrect as truly the only candidate that has spoken truth consistently (30-40 years) has beeen and is Ron Paul. Sometimes, folks do not like the truth and what it takes for the USa to get out
      of bankruptcy and on the road to recovery. Paul has THE plan and as a surgeon (in the broad sense) has identified 5 divisions of government to eliminate through attrition. He has the courage of Dwight Eisenhower to point the finger at the Industrial/Military Complex and yet truly believes in national defense not military offense. Apart from WWII and possibly Korea, the US lost in Vietnam, Somalia, Iraq and now Afghanistan. If you claim we did’nt lose, then answer the question what did the US gain? Then there are the small wars – bombing Serbia, Libya, now engaged in Uganda. I could add a dozen more interventions. I served in the Korean conflict, but was also gung ho for our involvement in Vietnam thinking our marines would rout the Vietkong for the democratic (autocratic) South Vietnamese regime. I soon learned from travelling there frequently and knowing the generals and other leaders that we would end up leaving with naught.

      • S.C. Murf

        ed, I spent 2 years in nam and the only thing we lost were a lot of good brothers. What we gained,or should I say, Big war mongering corporations gained was new weapon technology. This war was about weapons and drugs, bottom line. And by the way the Marines did one hell of a job but so did the U.S.Army, Navy and Air Force.
        You have to watch these politicians that talk out of both sides of their mouth. Jesus said to look at what a man does not what he says. People we are more alike than we are different and that is because we all came from the same Father

        up the hill
        airborne

        • OB1

          Thank you, I keep saying that! The only candidate that is WISIWIG
          (what you see is what you get) is Ron Paul. His statement of faith on his website and his e-mails blow me away. The media controlled by the elites have totally censored him! The put Murdock under subpena in a scandal from England! We are fighting an enemy so established, so in (they think) total control that they will stop at NOTHING! Here is the encouraging word of the day:

          1 John 4:4
          Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
          1 John 4:3-5 (in Context) 1 John 4 (Whole Chapter)
          1 John 5:4
          For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
          1 John 5:3-5 (in Context) 1 John 5 (Whole Chapter)
          1 John 5:5
          Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
          1 John 5:4-6 (in Context) 1 John 5 (Whole Chapter)

          • Altaica

            Murdocks gonna get his soon I think. There are a lot of U.S. petitions to investigate, prosecute and hold accountable Murdock. I hope they are successful.

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          Amen brother. Thank you for your service. My brother lost a lot of his friends in that war, while LBJ and his buddies enriched themselves. What a bunch of sick bastar..s.

    • DaveH

      The only person I trust is Ron Paul. He’s the only one who has a track record of voting against Unconstitutional Bills. Even though the common thing for Politicians to do is grow their power with an ever increasing Government, Ron Paul has resisted that and did what’s right.
      Herman Cain doesn’t lie?
      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/11/ron-paul-herman-cain-fed-audit-gop-debate_n_1006228.html

      • Harley Watkins (Real Name)

        Dr. Paul is the answer to this nations woes. He’s the only one with the personal constitution to guard our Constitution and our Nation.

        Dr. Paul 2012

        All other road lead to Tyranny and Globalism.

        It’s not a left or right thing… it’s what is correct the correct presciption for our nations illness!

      • Altaica

        Paul’s got guts. He’s not afraid to speak his mind and get it right there in the open. I like that about him. I hope enough people pay attention to him to get him elected. Our country’s got a lot of illnesses, about time we get a doctor in to heal them.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Dave, fill me in on something here, as I truly dont know. Say we elect Ron Paul, and say he wins in a landslide. Now we have a Republican and Democrat congress, and we all know congress really are the ones that control things. Ron has all these great ideas, but these wankers dont want to play ball, in the same way that they wont work with each other now, both scared to death to make the other guys look good. Do you think congress would work with him, or do you think they would become worse than ever? Let me know your thoughts on this.

    • Harley Watkins (Real Name)

      Sure he’s not lying… he’s out in the open about the fact that he was the FED chairman of Kansas City, Mo. Let me ask you, “Who controls fiscal policy in the USA?” It’s not the treasury it’s the FED. Telling th truth is one thing, but being apart of, past or present, the same private corporation responsible for bankrupting our Country after a mere 10 years in the early part of the last century is quite another. Being apart of a group of individuals that was granted the outsourcing of our Treasury’s duties; printing our money and lending it back to us at interest it treasonist. I’d rather not have the “Fox – Cain” guarding our proverbial hen house. END THE FED FOREVER.

      • Harley Watkins (Real Name)

        Go Dr. Paul 2012

    • Capitalist at Birth

      Cain is finished. I could have supported him, until he lauded Alan Greenspan, who helped create our current economic crisis. His 999 plan is regressive in nature and will increase the tax burden on the middle and lower economic wage earners, not to mention those living on fixed incomes.

      • texastwin827

        As a retired full charge bookkeeper, I also disagree with Cain’s 999 plan. The only saving grace in it is the fact that companies like GE who make big profits but pay 0 taxes would have to at least pay 9%.

        The 999 plan is not likely to fly, even if he was elected President. When you consider that approximately 47 (or 49%) of the population pays no taxes (and probably get Earned Income Credit..i.e. money back that they didn’t pay in) Congress will never go along with it. Keep in mind that a large segment of those who don’t pay taxes are retirees on social security. When you consider that the average Soc Sec check is under $1100 a month, you would be subjecting them to losing 9% of that to pay taxes (not counting the 9% Federal Sales Taxes). So far, I’ve not heard a great deal from Cain about where he would DECREASE SPENDING…that has to be done.

        What the 999 plan would do is basically make everyone, regardless of how low their income is, pay about 18% (income & sales tax) plus their own state income & sales taxes. Cain can talk 999 all he wants to because he know, in reality, Congress won’t pass it.

        • Old Henry

          Texastwin:

          Actually we would be paying 18% sales tax as corporations do not pay taxes, they are passed along in the price of their goods.

          I give Mr. Cain credit for getting a debate started about the tax code, however.

          You are correct, the scum-bag politicians will not willingly give up the power they weild with the tax code.

          There are still 51% – 53% who ARE paying taxes, so we still out number them and need to put ENORMOUS pressure on Congress to eliminate this Nazi-like tax system.

          • moonbeam

            “There are still 51% – 53% who ARE paying taxes,”

            Right again Old Henry. Last I saw, 52% are working and 48% are not. Sure looks like 50% unemployment to me. But we are told 9% unemployment, which only counts those who looked for work in the past 4 weeks. It does not really count people who are actually out of work.

            Lowes is preparing to close some stores and lay off thousands of people. Look for an increase in people filing for jobless benefits.

            Thanks Obama. Oh, and thanks for the new debit card charges. I simply just love how you take what little I have and give it to the banks who are raking in the dough in interest payments on deposits.

        • Altaica

          That would mean close to half my income was going to taxes federal & State combined. Ugh!

          • Altaica

            Yeah the unemployment numbers are much higher then they are saying. They are lying to make it seem less bleak than it actually is.

  • James B. Johnson

    For Perry to make the statement that Mormonism is “not” a cult is just as incorrect as to over-emphasize the importance of Romney’s religious affiliation in a presidential primary. Biblically speaking, Mormonism IS a cult. There isn’t a single theological seminary in the country, liberal or conservative, that would deny this – and it has been voluminously proven. Jeffries was doing his “JOB” as a pastor by pointing this out. For Perry to ignorantly contradict Jeffries on this subject is wandering far outside Perry’s area of expertise and shows how biblically uninformed he is.

    • dvanilla

      James B. Johnson, you make a good point.

    • Mike Conley

      Agree totally a duck is a duck, if it quacks like a duck it must be a duck, if it looks like a cult it must be a cult. Christain and believing in God everyone has a god, god of this world wants to take us down, Jesus is the way, truth and light who ever follows me will be granted, walk like him talk like him, Live like him.

    • WPACE

      James, you say “Biblically speaking, Mormonism IS a cult” please provide the biblical reference you are speaking of. I am very curious to know.

      • Robert

        Someone earlier mentioned that that what Mormons believe contradicts what the Bible says about Jesus. I might add, that it contradicts other biblical truths also. I have noticed that there are so many comments being made that indicate a gross lack of knowledge of the contents of the Bible and things taken out of context. Dr Jefress was asked the question about Mormonism being a cult and he, using his free speech, rightly answered that it is. If any religion contradicts the Bible in what it says about the free gift of salvation in Jesus Christ alone, then it is considered theologically a cult. Christians base sole authority on the Word of God and that the only way to be saved is through Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior. If someone believes there is another way, I’m sorry, but they both can’t be right. If someone don’t really know the scriptures, front to back, I think it’s very difficult to make a worthwhile,intelligent comment. I’ve read so many comments that don’t really make sense in light of the what the scriptures say. God loves everyone and is not willing that any should perish, but has giv en us all a free will. One more point…The main reason our country is crumbling is because we are losing our moral foundation as a country under God because we are no longer honoring Him, and many are attempting to leave Him out.

    • OB1

      You, sir are correct.

    • Song

      All I can say James to your ignorant comment is thank heavens that such narrow minded people like you or the pastor are not running for president.

    • SmartAlice

      Look up the word cult in the dictionary. Christians in general fit this category.

      • OB1

        Wrong.

      • http://naver samurai

        After making this comment, smart does not seem appropriate. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

    • Jim

      You are correct! When I heard Perry deny the truth of what his pastor said, I knew right then he is not a Bible believer, but one (like I used to be) who went to a Christian church so I called myself a Chrisitan.

    • Karolyn

      We covered this in my Religion class. The LDS started out recognized as a cult but has been accepted as a church for a long time.

      • Kate8

        K – I would guess that depends on who you ask.

      • OB1

        Karolyn, question: what is the “church” in your description? Please explain yourself.

    • texastwin827

      Robert Jeffress is Pastor of the First Baptist Church in Dallas…and is NOT Perry’s pastor. In fact, I’m not sure that the former pastor (Criswell) who served that church for decades, prior to his death,would have approved of his comments.

      I don’t care for Perry (have never voted for him) however, I don’t believe Jeffress has a direct line with God, so shouldn’t be appointing himself, as such (and I’m Baptist & was baptized in that church at age 9).

      Everyone is entitled to their own religious beliefs..our constitution guarantees it. Many religions disagree with each other, however, in the end, it will be God who makes the final decision.

      • Altaica

        Is he the pastor of that giant megachurch that looks like a giant ampitheater? I say some video of the inside of one of the texas megachurches recently and I was amazed at the sheer immensity of the building. It reminded me of our events center.

    • Old Henry

      James:

      Perry is a politician and saw the uprour over the Pastor’s statement. He was typically doing was was plitically expedient.

  • http://naver samurai

    There is no separation of church and state mentioned anywhere in the Constitution. Why can’t a presidential hopeful use their faith in God to help guide them to the White House? I couldn’t think of someone better to ask then the Lord God Almighty. This would go with how our founders founded this nation as a Christian nation. We should put a well qualified person in the White House, but have them also be a Christian. Obama bin Laden is a muslim and look at the shape our country is in now. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

    • Angel Wannabe

      Hear, Hear samurai! :)

    • Joanne

      Separation of church and state is no where in the Constitution of the Declaration of Independence. Our nation has strong Judeo-Christian roots because of our founding fathers. I challenge anyone to watch the American Heritage series DVDs and find out about roots.

      • Joanne

        typo the second “of” in the first line should be “or”

      • Altaica

        Our founding fathers were not all Christian or Jewish. To the contrary they were many religions, some Deist and Unitarian. Thomas Paine wasn’t even religious, he was atheist. One thing I am sure most people can agree on is that many, if not most of our founding fathers were also free mason. Free Masonry itself has a lot of pagan elements to it.

        Below are direct quotes from various writings of our founding fathers:

        I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of…Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and for my own part, I disbelieve them all.”
        From:
        The Age of Reason by Thomas Paine, pp. 8,9 (Republished 1984, Prometheus Books, Buffalo, NY)

        “Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear.” — Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, Aug. 10, 1787

        “On the dogmas of religion, as distinguished from moral principles, all mankind, from the beginning of the world to this day, have been quarreling, fighting, burning and torturing one another, for abstractions unintelligible to themselves and to all others, and absolutely beyond the comprehension of the human mind.” — Thomas Jefferson to Carey, 1816

        “I wish it (Christianity) were more productive of good works … I mean real good works … not holy-day keeping, sermon-hearing … or making long prayers, filled with flatteries and compliments despised by wise men, and much less capable of pleasing the Deity.”— Benjamin Franklin, Works, Vol. VII, p. 75

        “If we look back into history for the character of the present sects in Christianity, we shall find few that have not in their turns been persecutors, and complainers of persecution. The primitive Christians thought persecution extremely wrong in the Pagans, but practiced it on one another. The first Protestants of the Church of England blamed persecution in the Romish Church, but practiced it upon the Puritans. They found it wrong in Bishops, but fell into the practice themselves both there (England) and in New England.”— Benjamin Franklin

        “As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed?” — John Adams, letter to F.A. Van der Kamp, Dec. 27, 1816

        “Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear.” — Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, Aug. 10, 1787

        “What influence, in fact, have ecclesiastical establishments had on society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the civil authority; on many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance have they been the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wish to subvert the public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate it, needs them not.” — James Madison, “A Memorial and Remonstrance”, 1785

        “Experience witnesseth that ecclesiastical establishments, instead of maintaining the purity and efficacy of religion, have had a contrary operation. During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution.” — James Madison, “A Memorial and Remonstrance”, 1785

        The Christian priesthood, finding the doctrines of Christ levelled to every understanding and too plain to need explanation, saw, in the mysticisms of Plato, materials with which they might build up an artificial system which might, from its indistinctness, admit everlasting controversy, give employment for their order, and introduce it to profit, power, and pre-eminence. The doctrines which flowed from the lips of Jesus himself are within the comprehension of a child; but thousands of volumes have not yet explained the Platonisms engrafted on them: and for this obvious reason that nonsense can never be explained.”
        From:
        Thomas Jefferson, an Intimate History by Fawn M. Brodie, p. 453 (1974, W.W) Norton and Co. Inc. New York, NY) Quoting a letter by TJ to Alexander Smyth Jan 17, 1825, and Thomas Jefferson, Passionate Pilgrim by Alf Mapp Jr., pp. 246 (1991, Madison Books, Lanham, MD) quoting letter by TJ to John Adams, July 5, 1814.

        Also see the Treaty of Peace and Friendship, unanimously voted into existence by the 5th Congress and read aloud by John Adams.

        Article 11 reads: Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

        History shows us that our government was not founded on the Christian religion nor were all our great founders Christian. Instead our country was founded on the principles of liberty and freedom of religion. Our own government in, it’s own ratified document clearly demonstrates this fact.

        • Dntmkmecmoverther

          Although you write well, your history and theological understanding of the founding of this nation is flawed something awful.

          Thomas Paine was no atheist. His pamphlet ‘Common Sense’ begins with this paragraph:
          “These are the times that try men’s souls: The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing its value. Heaven knows how to put a proper price upon its goods; and it would be strange indeed if so celestial an article as freedom should not be highly rated.”

          Paine understood the existence of Heaven and Hell, and the idea/belief that freedoms were a gift from God Almighty and not some government entity. ALL of the founders who signed the Declaration believed that freedoms were unalienable rights given by God. Paine’s good friend Benjamin Rush would back that up too.

          Do some better study/homework before bludgeoning the readers here with such rubbish.

          • Altaica

            All the research I have done does back up that he was an atheist based on his later writings. If you have contrary data by all means provide me the secular historic information so that I may add it to my files for reading.

          • http://naver samurai

            Wrong answer altaica. Read what Paine said to educaters in Paris in 1796. He gives credit to the Creator of all things and not to science or scientists. Ergo, you are mistaken. We were also founded a Christian nation, no matter how much a smoke screen you put up. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Altaica

            Samurai-
            You need to read the Treaty of Tripoli voted on by our congress and endorsed and Read by President John Adams, also one of the founding fathers. This is an edorsed legal document of our country voted on and ratified by our country in the late 1700′s. This document clearly states we were not founded on the Christian religion. Even my minister father knows and understands this. He himself told me that the country was not founded as a Christian Nation. History also correlates this information.

            “Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.”

          • http://naver samurai

            Which one Altaica? The first one was written when John Adams was president, but the Barbary Coast Pirates broke that treaty and we had to go and kick their butts. After we accomplished this, there was a second treaty and it did not contain the Article 11 you are talking about. Compare the 2 treaties and stop sounding like a moron! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Altaica

            Samurai,

            The breaking of the treaty by the other country does not negate the fact that our government clearly stated and supported that the country was not founded as a Christian Nation. It is a fact that a document was passed with this statement, no action on the other country’s part can change that fact. It does not need to be stated again later when that precedent and fact has already been established.

        • Angel Wannabe

          Altaica__We can find very important men throughout history twho disagreed that there is a God. To seek them out is to try and prove ones point, nothing more.

          _It makes no difference who of the Founders were Christians, Dietists or what have you__In the Declaration of Independance it clearly states a “Reliance on Divine Providence”. No matter how ANYONE wants to interpet that statement, that indicated a belief in a higher power than themselves. Which if praticed, keeps people humbled and mostly on the right track, away from egotistcal leadership.
          Our problems come when we don’t do informed voting. When we vote on whether or not they look Presidential, and say the words we want to hear.____Hence the reason why we have Obama!!_ It’s not just the lies of the elected after they’re in office, its the un-informed voters that vote them in and they are the majority.

          • Altaica

            Yes, Divine Providence, but not specifically any one person’s Deity. There are a lot of ways that can be viewed, such as greater good or a being of power, or natural law. It is vague to be inclusive to the different religious views. And ultimately, the president and the elected officials should at the very least be considering the greater good and what helps the people more than themselves. They are supposed to be our representatives, but a vast majority of them are corrupt and have forgotten that they should be doing what is best for the most people, not lining their pockets. They have forgotten Divine Providence by whatever way each person defines it, it ultimately comes down to good works for the most people.

            Obama is someone I voted against. I did not like either candidate we had last election. So far Obama is for the most part a complete failure. It’s been some time since I have been happy with the actions of a president.

          • Angel Wannabe

            Altacia, I don’t think there is anything vague about the word “Divine Providence” unless you really don’t believe in it, in which you’ll change the original meaning, to co-inincide with what you want to believe.

          • Karolyn

            God means different things to different people. Many Christians see “Him” as the big guy in the sky with the long white beard. Others see a higher power as a Universal Intelligence found in everything. All religions have a higher power. Christianity does not have a monopoly on God.

          • Kate8

            Karolyn – It’s true, there are many different concepts of who God is.

            What’s important, though, is not so much what we think about Him, but what He thinks about us.

            Humanity is so arrogant.

          • http://naver samurai

            Sorry Altaica, but Divine Providence is the spirit/presence of God and no other faith. Our Christian founding fathers told everything we were founded on from the Bible, Christian beliefs, the teachings of Jesus (Son of God and no shaman), and based our laws on the 10 Commandments. These are historical facts, no matter how your atheist self tries to twist the words. I do agree that we have gotten what we voted for. I also agree that many people were either not informed or they wasted their vote. I remember seeing on our local news how 3 – 4 women voted for Obama bin Laden because he was more physically attractive than McCain. You talk about wasted votes. Good post Angel Wannabe, fellow patriot. Keep up the good fight. BTW, our pastor has received hate e-mails from a local “group” for him preaching about gays and atheists. He, as well as the rest of the congregation, hopes he gets more of them. He says that they are just sore because they know their ways are wrong and they are trying to shut him up. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Altaica

            Samarui:

            “Sorry Altaica, but Divine Providence is the spirit/presence of God and no other faith. Our Christian founding fathers told everything we were founded on from the Bible, Christian beliefs, the teachings of Jesus (Son of God and no shaman), and based our laws on the 10 Commandments.”

            Sorry Samurai, but historically speaking you are completely wrong. Second, you can believe your religion all you want, but you have no right to say that my way is wrong and my views are incorrect. Your beliefs are yours and mine are mine. To me Jesus is a Shaman, as taught by my elder, a Christian Mystic, what a shaman does and embodies. To me we are all children of the Great Creator, so yeah, son of Divinity holds true. Everything that Jesus Christ has been said to do in the bible are abilities of Shamans of the highest power and ability. In addition to this, Your bible states from Jesus, “Greater things than I have done you will do.” This indicates that Jesus’s powers can be attained by those who follow the way. Shamanism is the worlds oldest known profession at 60,000 years old. Every religion and culture has an equivalent of this profession just by different names. A Mystic is the Christian term. I was also told by my Minister father that any “Christian” that judges violates the teachings of the bible and was a good measure for me to use in determining whether they were a true Christian or not. I have seen a lot of judgmental statements. Why do you judge other people as right or wrong, when “Judge lest not ye be judged” and “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone” are core tenets of Christ’s teachings? You are also ex-military if I remember correctly, have you ever killed anyone in the line of duty or contributed to their death? See the funny thing is, I am not what is traditionally defined as a Christian, but I do believe in the spirit of what Christ taught, and I do consider him and important teacher and figure. I just don’t believe in the man made written book. Religion is something that must be felt in the spirit, not something that can be done justice on a piece of paper, to me anyway. You’re free to follow and believe as you would. I do no harm to you in my beliefs and so long as you continue to do me no harm it’s all good.

            “These are historical facts, no matter how your atheist self tries to twist the words.”

            It is historical fact that our founding fathers did not found this country as a Christian nation as clearly evidenced in the Treaty of Tripoli Article 11, voted on unanimously by congress, ratified by congress and passed by congress. John Adams fully endorsed and read the document to congress.

            Secondly, you obviously are continuing to judge. I am not an Atheist, to be an Atheist I would have to not have a religion and not believe in higher power. As this is not true of me I am not an Atheist. I believe in the Great Spirit, Divine Creator, Divine Energy, Divine Providence, Natural Creator of the world as worshiped by my Ancestors of the Native American Tribes of America and whose religion is at the very least 10,000 years old. I believe in respect in all life. I believe in respecting nature. I believe the Force of Nature, the Creator brought life into existence and I also believe from the stars we came and to the stars we will return. I believe fully in my guiding spirits known as totems in my religion, you would call them angels. As I walk the path of the shaman and the tenets of shamanism I also walk the path of Jesus Christ and his teachings as he was one who fully walked the path. Surely you must understand that if God created everything then he created all other religions as well…otherwise you have to acknowledge that there are more Gods then yours as the first commandment states, “Thou shalt have no other gods before me, for your god’s name is Jealous and I am a jealous God.” To me everything comes from the First energy. Energy can neither be created nor destroyed, only transformed. Energy therefore has always existed and we are all pieces of the first energy there was. We as humans like to put names to things, so we call it Creator, God, Yahweh, Jehovah, Vishnu, etc. I think you get the idea. As my dad and my Lutheran friend both often tell me, we all follow the same god anyway, we just have different ways of going about it.

            ” I do agree that we have gotten what we voted for. I also agree that many people were either not informed or they wasted their vote. I remember seeing on our local news how 3 – 4 women voted for Obama bin Laden because he was more physically attractive than McCain. You talk about wasted votes.”

            Yeah Obama was a waste. I can’t wait till we can kick him out of office. It’s hard to get much worse then him.

          • Song

            Excellent thoughtful post Altaica!

          • http://naver samurai

            You can look at this site:

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpQOCvthw-o&; feature=related

            FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • http://naver samurai

            You can also check out this site:

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpQOCvthw-o&NR=1

            FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

      • Altaica

        The separation of Church and State is in essence a simplification of the Establishment Clause of the U.S. Constitution. You can use http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_church_and_state_in_the_United_States as a starting point to find the relevant information and sources.

        • Dntmkmecmoverther

          The ‘separation’ you claim is the rejection of government being involved in declaring a ‘state religion’ or prohibiting the free exercise of. So don’t confuse separation with outcasting. Religion has been and always will be a system in which one lives their beliefs. The difference will be whether the government condones that exercise or not.

          Right now, Muslims have demanded accommodations for their religious activity which includes beating one’s wife and honor killings along with a provision for sharia law. Since our Constitution denies the taking away of one’s freedom for religions’ sake, Islam doesn’t and can not coexist with our Constitution staying intact (hence the MB’s attempts to weaken and/or defeat that document as the law of the land in the US.)

          As one looks into the founding fathers, and their communications in regards to establishing the rule of law in our US Constitution, you will necessarily be struck seeing/reading the truth they believed: that this Constitution is unto a Christian people; for to any other it will wholly inadequate. They were right; Christian principles although not written into a theological law system, governed our definition of right and wrong, good and evil.

          This belief system, even with some of its flaws, has served us for 222 yrs. Longer than any other constitution of any nation. Only since 1917 when the communist mark of the ACLU came to be do we have the unorthodox decries that somehow, our founders were either too stupid or arrogant to govern well.

          I move that they were much wiser, much less arrogant and much more compassionate than our current brood of vipers who write and administer our laws in this country. We would do well to read the founder’s history again & again, to perhaps lessen our stupidity and ignorance; and who knows, perhaps our ability to love our neighbor might be revived once again.

          • Altaica

            “The ‘separation’ you claim is the rejection of government being involved in declaring a ‘state religion’ or prohibiting the free exercise of. So don’t confuse separation with outcasting. Religion has been and always will be a system in which one lives their beliefs. The difference will be whether the government condones that exercise or not.”

            I was not. To keep religion out of politics is not out casting. Anyone is welcome to their own views and beliefs so long as they do not use them to take away someone else’s. The government, free from allowing themselves to be swayed by one religion or another should be able to look at a law or policy and determine if its implementation is to the benefit of the majority of the populace or detriment. If the answer is the former then it should not pass. Unfortunately, we know politicians in general are pushing laws and agendas that are the latter and thus violating our constitutional rights. Do I think religions should be outlawed or outcast? No, I think what we do in private is our business unless it brings to harm another person.

            “Right now, Muslims have demanded accommodations for their religious activity which includes beating one’s wife and honor killings along with a provision for sharia law. Since our Constitution denies the taking away of one’s freedom for religions’ sake, Islam doesn’t and can not coexist with our Constitution staying intact (hence the MB’s attempts to weaken and/or defeat that document as the law of the land in the US.)”

            I can see this view. I am a proponent of the Constitution, and I believe if Muslims want to practice any activity against the constitution then they should be prosecuted for the crime. AS I stated above, one is free to practice their religion until such a point as they violate the rights of another individual. Muslim extremists that think we should do honor killings, that they can beat their wives, etc, clearly violate these laws of our land if they act on these beliefs. Our documents are widely published and they know this coming in. If they don’t want to live by our country’s very fair constitution and it’s amendments than they can choose to stay in a country that does. I would feel the same way if Christians and Jews acted on some of the old laws of the bible and took it upon themselves to stone an adulterer to death or killed their child because they disrespected them. These are ancient practices that we have advanced past in this country. There are a number of religious documents (many different religions) that condone slavery as well, but that infringes on another human’s rights and as such is anathema to our country’s religion.

            “As one looks into the founding fathers, and their communications in regards to establishing the rule of law in our US Constitution, you will necessarily be struck seeing/reading the truth they believed: that this Constitution is unto a Christian people; for to any other it will wholly inadequate. They were right; Christian principles although not written into a theological law system, governed our definition of right and wrong, good and evil.”

            I do have to disagree about the for Christian idea though. I have read a fair number, not all, but a lot, and always interested in more secular historical sources I can read. A Deist and a Unionist are not necessarily Christian, in fact, some of the writings of our founders reject Jesus altogether. They do however, hold to a belief of a higher power for the most part. They’ve left it fairly vague, which opens it to pretty much any of the religions that believe in a higher power. Reading through the documents I can see how each religion may feel it supports theirs. I myself follow the Shamanic Traditions of the Native Americans but I came from a Christian Background. I do not agree with everything that men wrote down in the bible, but I do believe in a divine creator. Something I have in common with many of the monotheistic religions, however, I walk a more nature oriented path. Similar terminology is used in our documents, we call the Creator.

            “This belief system, even with some of its flaws, has served us for 222 yrs. Longer than any other constitution of any nation. Only since 1917 when the communist mark of the ACLU came to be do we have the unorthodox decries that somehow, our founders were either too stupid or arrogant to govern well.

            I move that they were much wiser, much less arrogant and much more compassionate than our current brood of vipers who write and administer our laws in this country. We would do well to read the founder’s history again & again, to perhaps lessen our stupidity and ignorance; and who knows, perhaps our ability to love our neighbor might be revived once again.”

            I certainly don’t believe our founders were too stupid or arrogant. I think they gave us a very decent system. The problem lies in the players that are involved and unconstitutional laws and decrees that are pushed through.

          • Karolyn

            Everyone talks about the founders as though they were perfect God-like human beings. They were human beings alright; and as such, had faults. They were not perfect like so many want to portray them. Even Jefferson compromised his principles when he made the Louisiana Purchase. There was no specific authorization in the Constitution for the acquisition of foreign land or incorporating the citizens who lived in that land. He also was in on trying to bribe Napoleon to act as a middleman to purchase western Florida.

          • http://naver samurai

            You are right. There is no seperation of church and state. There is no seperation, we are one nation under God. All it says is that Congress shall make no laws establishing a religion nor prohibiting the free exercise thereof. This is why we have prayers at the start of each day in Congress, the Senate, and state legislatures. I think she is affraid that if we did get back to the ways we were founded, her and her ilk would be left out of something. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

        • Altaica

          Samurai,

          Are you of the Fundamentalist sect of Christianity. You see to spout off their tired propaganda that other sects of Christianity seem to have gotten past. See the treaty of Tripoli. It clearly states we were not founded as a Christian nation.

          • http://naver samurai

            SSDD with the same old lies. There were 2 Treaties of Tripoli. The second one has no Article 11 in it. The first one was even called the hypocritical treaty, so what does that tell you. Get off of the lies, quit spouting the same nonsense, and look at both treaties. Sheesh, what a moron! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

            P.S. The Treaty of Tripoli was not a founding document and has nothing to do with our founding so why would you bring it up?

          • Altaica

            And the abolition of slavery was also not in our founding documents and was equally important. The fact remains that the government passed the treaty unanimously stating we were not founded as a Christian Nation. I have seen no such ratified document that changes that. It is written in black and white. You can’t change the fact that it is there and you can’t change the fact that the government did not strike out this statement nor make any official statement in our government policy or law recognizing a state religion. It does not matter if another country broke a treaty, what matters is we did not, and we have not rescinded the statement. The statement still holds true until it is overturned by our government in writing. They however cannot do this, because the very establishment clause means there can be no state religion else they would be in violation.

    • Doc Sarvis

      George W. Bush spoke with God – or so he says. George should have asked better questions because he sure messed up while in office. President Obama’s Chirstian faith is not worn on his sleeve but he governs guided by that faith.

      • JTB

        President Bush was a good christian man that made good decisions. His problem was Reid, Pelosi, Frank & Dowd! They’re the ones that screwed this country up so BAD! Don’t blame George he brought all of this nonsense to their attention and Pelosi threw it out wouldn’t even discuss. As speaker of the house she had power to snub her nose to anyone and she did! The rest is history! Obama well that’s another story. The man is corrupt! There’s no room in his world for GOD!

        • Thinking About

          The “good” Christian George made the decision to invade Iraq while Dennis Haskert was Speaker so you do not have your facts straight. GWB said he is Christian as well as Obama and if it is good enough for one to say they are Christian then it is good enough for all.

          • http://bellsouth.net Oakley Mann

            Thinking About, thanks, your words are fine

          • OB1

            Thanks, and thousands of Christian Iraquis were killed or have left because of the persucution of the Shiite (sp) muslims. Same as now going on in Seria, Lebanon, Libya, Egypt and else where. Pure evil at it’s worst!

          • http://naver samurai

            Bush could not have invaded Iraq without approval of the Senate and Congress. Obama bin Laden is no Christian and attacked Lybia without these approvals needed before making any bombing runs. Bush stuck by his convictions, but Obama bin Laden has no convictions at all, except to destroy America. Remember, Bush may have started 2 wars, but Obama bin Laden has started 3 wars. The Senate and Congress overwhelmingly voted to go to Iraq and Afghanistan, so what is your point? Neeeeed to get your facts straight before you post! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • eddie47d

            The only point being made is that there are warmongers in both parties and supported by both sides.

        • http://bellsouth.net Oakley Mann

          JTB, Amen!! Thank you ma’am or sir.

        • http://naver samurai

          GOOD post and well said. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

      • TheRealBob

        Lies and nonsense as usual from Doc. Maobama is satan’s disciple, not Christ’s.

      • Harley Watkins (Real Name)

        Anyone can say they are a Christian, but if they truly are their lives will live on as a testament to their faith in Jesus.

      • Jibbs

        LOL, hehehe, your wrong buddy. But I would expect nothing less from you.

        • Jibbs

          Jibbs says:
          Your comment is awaiting moderation.

          October 19, 2011 at 12:06 pm
          LOL, hehehe, your wrong buddy. But I would expect nothing less from you.

          ———————————————————————

          My comment is awaiting moderation makes no sense.

          • Karolyn

            Are they doing that to every comment today? All of mine have had that advice attached.

      • http://bellsouth.net Oakley Mann

        Doc, I disagree. George W. Bush was one of the greatest Presidents in recent history. As I told my friends who were wanting him gone, mighty anxious were they, within two yrs of his leaving office 1/2 the country would wish like the Charles Dickens he were back. Many have now seen the light, and in the future after we have gone to glory, History will recognize him as the last Great US Pres to “hold the line” against all comers

        • moonbeam

          I seem to remember Bushboy differently. The first time he got in, I warned folks “We are in BIG trouble people.” Then he got in a second term and our fate was sealed.

          Then Obama comes down the pike, oozing pus between his horse teeth of hope and change. I don’t need to write what happened with that.

          I wasn’t wrong about Bush and I wasn’t wrong about Obama. I’m not wrong about Perry (no damn good, gardicil mandate, close ties with muslim community) and slowly losing my cool with Cain (his ties with and denial about the Fed, 9-9-9 math, talks taxes instead of cuts)

          His whole thing is his 9-9-9 plan. He has said diddly squat about cutting spending. Cain will be yet another mistake. Do not be fooled again. Same with Romney and Perry.

          Ron Paul 2012 is the only hope we have and the only one NOT talking nonsense during the debates.

          • Karolyn

            Have you noticed that Perry looks like Tweedle-Dee or Tweedle-Dum from Cinderalla?

          • http://bellsouth.net Oakley Mann

            moonbeam, Thank God our country has someone like you who knows everything there is to know. When you stop learning and have narrow vision, the true and great experience of life is over

      • http://naver samurai

        Are you high or something? Obama bin Laden only believes in himself and the puppets that control him. Are you an ostrich? Have you had your head buried somewhere dark and moist for the last 2 – 3 years? Classic liberal strategy to throw out a lie and try to get people sidetracked. Didn’t work this time. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

        • http://bellsouth.net Oakley Mann

          samurai, you talking to me? Believe me, I am no lover of Obama. I don’t do drugs, but do have a strong tendency toward Scotch, and God Himself Knows I enjoy the high or low from it. Hopefully that defect won’t send me straight to hell. Thanks

          • http://naver samurai

            Sorru Oakley, I should have said that was for Doc. No offense intended. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

        • eddie47d

          The name is OBAMA. No different than Reagan’s name being REAGAN.

    • Monte

      The conflict with religion went back to the Church of England, a religious monopoly that was fed by mandatory fees from the colonists. Patrick Henry defended and won a case destroying this monopoly in the Virginia colony, much to the anger of the British, even though (I believe it was) his uncle was a preacher for the church. The framers wanted to avoid the creation of an established church, as it was considered a part of the tyranny that they had rebelled against.

      • http://bellsouth.net Oakley Mann

        Monte, the conflict of religion has been going on far, far, and longer than before the Church of England was a thought. In fact,conflict of religion has been going on well before Constantine the Great converted to Christianity around ~323 which resulted in the Byzantium Empire going Christian with much conflict and back and forth to pagism. As Constantine the Great said, “With such impiety pervading the human race, and the state threatened with destruction, what relief did God Devise? I myself was the instrument he chose”

    • Karolyn

      Religion should have no bearing on anyone’s qualifications to hold political office. There are spiritual people who have no religious affiliation who are more moral than many who call themselves Christians…..AND, if someone calls himself a Christian, then he is, unless of course there is an appointed review group that reviews everyone’s assertions and then decided if they REALLY are Christian or not.

      • independant thinker

        “…..AND, if someone calls himself a Christian, then he is,…”

        No Karolyn calling ones self a Christian does NOT make that person a Christian. What makes one a Christian is his/her belief in God and acceptance of Jesus as their personal savior.

        • http://naver samurai

          Well said and very true, fellow patriot! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

    • Mushin

      Hey Samurai! Good to read your still here and active! I concur, and would add that the only man who is a viable candidate, the man for God and Country – THE MAN WHO STANDS FOR THE PEOPLE AND THE CONSTITUTION IS MR. RON PAUL!

      All the other runners are shills and frauds who stand for nothing but more of the same {INCLUDING ROMNEY!}

      What say you Samurai?!

      • http://naver samurai

        Sounds good to me and thanks for the post. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

  • Wayne C.

    The Mormon Church Is Hardly A Cult ? I beg to defer they are a cult and you can go to any Christian Book store and see book after book on them. Plus the writer should interview some who have left the LDS i.e Mormons
    It would make you heart sick to hear them on how they this so call loving church has broken up families and friendships.

    • Americansurvivor

      The Definition of a ‘Cult’ is (1).great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book) (2): the object of such devotion (3): usually small group of people characterized by such devotion. (4):formal religious veneration, worship (veneration= respect or awe inspired by the dignity, wisdom, dedication).
      So! on that aspect….I beleive that would make every religious denomination a ‘cult’….for Mr Jeffress to make that acusation, it is correct on the cult, but reluctantly, he did not include his church which also is a cult. It is easy to point fingers to discredit others to cause hatered, condemsion, and harm. That’s what the people did to Jesus and his followers. And what did He do? His whole mission was to bring His gospel to earth and He did develop His true church, then to take upon Himself, the Atonement for all of us and be ressurected. Why doesn’t the preachers, pastors, reverands, bishops teach that instead. NO- they would rather put out ‘my church is better than yours’, hatred toward others and intolerance toward those who are different…it’s discusting and is no part of real Christianity. It’s called being a hypocrate…

    • katt221

      Just because books in some bookstore call Mormonism a cult doesn’t make it so. By the same logic you can go into a Mormon bookstore and see book after book about following Jesus Christ.

      • LarryMac

        I find it interesting, that in so many christian bookstores, you find anti-mormon literature in abundance – and in their church services, they bash Mormons, but then when you go into a mormon bnookstore, you find NO publications critical of other faiths, and you NEVER hear any other faith bashed in a Mormon service. What are they so afraid of? Maybe the mormons have something going – no paid ministry, a solid concentration on following the teachings of Christ and a belief in GOD, and a promise that it is POSSIBLE for them to “have all that the father hath” (and that is NOT from the book of Mormon, but the Bible – if virtually every rendition you can name. I also find it interesting that so many critics of the LDS church take great pleasure in protesting that ‘they’ believe they will be like Gods, with their own little worlds, but there is not problem with God’s promise to ALL believers that they can “have all that he hath” – the two are essentially the same promise – and in BOTH cases, they are descriptions of POSSIBILITIES, not of absolute promises. In both cases, it takes a great deal MORE than just being a Mormon, or any other Named Christian religion. I think we all should take the time to actually learn some FACTS about religions, people, candidates for office, whatever – before we begin to cast dispersions upon them. Herman Cain comes to mind from the current controversies regarding his various positions – he constantly reminds the electorate that he is being criticized not based upon what his real position is, but upon what someone THINKS his position is based on some sound bite. We are born with brains that develop well if we nourish them – why not try using them? For the record, I am NOT a Mormon, I AM a liberal when it comes to social issues, and I am a strict constitutionalist. I also happen to think if more people used their brains half as much as they do their mouths, we would all be living a much more rewarding life. Nuff’ said.

  • Tazio2013

    Speaking of religious cults; Robert Jeffress and his 10,000 member Dallas mega-church is, without doubt, a Fundamentalist Evangelical Christian Extremist (acronym!) cult.

    The US would be a far better place if we could remove religion, especially judeo-christianism, from politics!

    • Chuck

      I think you would be surprised to see the quotes from our founders referring to the Bible being our governing body in this country which become the main superpower in the world up until now when we are farther from the WORD than ever.

      • eyeswideopen

        And you may be surprised as well. For instance, Jefferson edited his own version of the bible, calling much of what was written about Jesus as a “dunghill”. Benjamin Franklin was a proud member of the Hell-fire club. A club who mocked Christianity. Oh, and did I mention that they found numerous animals and human remains buried underneath his house. The fact is that nowhere in the entire Constitution or Bill of Rights will you find the name Jesus anywhere. The fact is that most of the founding fathers were deists or freemasons. If you look at our nation’s capitol building (which was built to replicate a roman pantheon) you will find Zeus and Apollo and Aphrodite and every false God under the sun, but you will not find Jesus Christ. Christian nation my ass. George Washington helped design the layout of D.C. and it is full of occultic symbolism. I could go on, but why?

        • http://naver samurai

          Care to cite a source to back up these untruths? The Bible that Jefferson made was called the Jefferson Bible. It was devotional passages from the New Testiment that were said by Jesus, so why would he say Jesus was a dunghill? I’m a good historian and have never come across that crap you have just said. Talk about conspiracy theorists! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Karolyn

            Samurai – Jefferson thought that Jesus said a lot of good stuff; that’s why he cut up his Bible; but he did not believe that he was the son of God and died for our sins. He was totally against religion

          • Altaica

            I’ve read a lot of Jefferson’s writings and quotes and he was a deist and he did not wholeheartedly agree with how the bible was written. That’s why he wrote his own. As for occult symbols, Christianity has stolen so many pagan symbols you can’t see the symbols because you are used to seeing them. The Christmas Tree is pagan. Eggs and Rabbits at Easter? Pagan. Eater was a pagan goddess who adored rabbits. The eggs are representative of the pagan fertility holiday known as Easter. Incense in ceremony? Pagan. Red caps at Christmas and Caroling? Pagan, comes from the Roman Holiday of Saturnalia. The Cross? Used by Pagans first. Halloween and Carving pumpkins? The Pagan Holiday of Samhain mixed with the Christian Holiday of All Saints day. The jack’o'lantern used to be a carved potato or squash.

            Some examples of occult symbols in our country architecture: Obelisks, they are everywhere. These are symbols that harken back to egyptian religion. The Pyramid on the dollar. Egyptian in design, but the Aztecs, Mayans and Incas had pyramids as well, they’re a common symbol of ancient religions, but not Christianity. Look at the dollar bill, there is an eye on the pyramid. That is very clearly the Eye of Ra. Egyptian. There is a lot of Egyptian symbolism in our country’s important architecture and on our money.

    • Harley Watkins (Real Name)

      Hate to say it… but you don’t seem to see that we’re almost to that place you’ve just described, complete absence of Christianity in our Nation’s Governance. So I beg the question, How’s that working out? Our Society has become largely: Self-serving, humanistic, and borderline hedonistic… Is this the way we should be heading? What’s next Blood Lust… oh wait… I forgot the UFC… Guess we’ve reached the pinnacle of Societal Evolution. We are not “A Brave New World” entering the year 1984… sorry for the cliche notions… but it appears they’ve all had the play book all along.

    • Dntmkmecmoverther

      ..then what? Should we let you get to decide right from wrong? On what basis? What foundational truth do you bring to the table other than gross ignorance? We have plenty of that now…I suggest that you learn from the founders of this great nation and what they said they believed…and then see the result of that belief system which netted us the most free nation on earth.

      You would evidently abandon that source of freedom. If so, then, what source or foundation would you utilize which would be compassionate, loving and still maintain our freedom?

    • http://naver samurai

      Actually we need to get the muslims and atheists out of this country and their beliefs out of government, you simpleton. How can you say such nonsense when our laws are based on the 10 Commandments and our founding, government, and Constitution are created directly from Biblical Law, Judeo-Christian beliefs, and belief in God. Must be a commie troll. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

      • Altaica

        Samurai-

        While you’re kicking out non-native religions you should excuse yourself from the table as well. My ancestors and their religion were here first. I am fine with sharing my ancestral lands with a diversity of people, but if you are suggesting that people who are not from what you perceive as the founding religion then you should leave. You should also know that the slaves imported by your ancestors were often from the parts of Africa that were muslim and thus were here just as long as the Christians. Either you go with the muslims your ancestors imported or all stay here as long as they uphold the laws of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

      • http://naver samurai

        I picked out those two because they are either wanting to instill their laws here (Muslims) or they are trying to destroy this country’s Christian founding (Atheists). Second, your tribal lands? You must be living in the wild west to be talking like that. Your people have been assimilated into the USA. Ergo, you are now one of us, the Americans. Third, sorry but anyone that did anything with slavery or the slave trade were not Christians in anything but name only. Sorry also, but I’ve fought hard for this country and was wounded twice, so don’t you tell me anything about freedom. You and you obviously left of the fence beliefs can take a powder. You know nothing about our founding and this is evident by the nonsense you post. Neeeeed to study more, if you want to convince this historian. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

        • Altaica

          I know plenty about our founding thank you very much. I know what is taught in secular history and what I can find in our official government documents.

          I’ve spent countless hours listening to my Grandfather’s and great grandfather’s stories of world war II. I also have a lot of air force friends and they tell me a lot of things not told in the MSM. I have also volunteered with and interviewed war veterans in the retirement homes about the wars and our history. My father also happens to be a war veteran. I am no stranger to the sacrifices of our soldiers and I am no stranger to secular history.

          And you are wrong, the native Americans are not all integrated. There are reservations with separate laws and conditions that exist outside our own laws. There is a separate government for the Native peoples, each tribe with their own councils and lands. The Mashentucket Peqouts and the Mohegans both have reservations, tribal councils and laws in Connecticut, not the wild west. These are part of the Iriquois nation. The Midwest also has reservations with their own tribal laws. We have Omaha, Ponca, Dakato, Winnebago, just to name a few. Head to the southwest and there is a wide tract of lands that are Hopi. I haven’t even reached the west coast yet. I am sure that there are some other reservations in Florida and some of the other southeastern states.

          In addition, you, like many people here are wrong to the side of the fence I am. I am a Moderate, which means, middle of the road. I am neither liberal nor conservative as I have views from both sides of the spectrum. One need only have a look at how strongly I am against gun control and illegal aliens to see this fact. I believe in Freedom of religion, which protected by our bill of rights, freedom of religion means every religion, whether you like it or not. I always find it funny that defending freedom of religion is considered a liberal stance, while defending the right to keep and bear arms is a conservative stance. So there you have it. If you’re going to judge and apply labels, at least use the right one. Moderate or Middle of the road Independent would be appropriate, liberal or conservative would not.

    • Altaica

      I think that’s the church I saw videos on that looks like a place I would go to see a concert. If it is the one they spend 200,000 dollars per day they have a service, just to run the place!

  • ROYBARNARD

    THERE IS NO NAMED RELIGION IN HEAVEN

    • Chuck

      Thats because religion waas formed by man. Salvation however is defined in the word and true doctrine also lies there. If there doctrine is not in the Bible it is a false religion

      • Altaica

        And I have heard those same words from Hindi, Jews, Muslims and other religious. All believe their way is the only way and the right way. I say, believe as you want, but do not use it as an excuse to harm anyone else’s rights. At that point you have violated others and are open to returned hostility. Religion belongs in private, not public politics and not in the making of laws that affect everyone.

        • Harley Watkins (Real Name)

          I once followed those same words uttered by Hindu, Muslim, Buddhist, Metaphysicists and even Masonic Theosophists. Though none could prove the truth of who God really is. Call out for God to show you who he is, and I assure you… if you ask with an honest heart, he’ll give you the truth.

          Luke 17:20…
          The Coming of the Kingdom
          20 One day the Pharisees asked Jesus, “When will the Kingdom of God come?”

          Jesus replied, “The Kingdom of God can’t be detected by visible signs.[d] 21 You won’t be able to say, ‘Here it is!’ or ‘It’s over there!’ For the Kingdom of God is already among you.[e]”

          22 Then he said to his disciples, “The time is coming when you will long to see the day when the Son of Man returns, but you won’t see it. 23 People will tell you, ‘Look, there is the Son of Man,’ or ‘Here he is,’ but don’t go out and follow them. 24 For as the lightning flashes and lights up the sky from one end to the other, so it will be on the day when the Son of Man comes. 25 But first the Son of Man must suffer terribly and be rejected by this generation.

          26 “When the Son of Man returns, it will be like it was in Noah’s day. 27 In those days, the people enjoyed banquets and parties and weddings right up to the time Noah entered his boat and the flood came and destroyed them all.

          28 “And the world will be as it was in the days of Lot. People went about their daily business—eating and drinking, buying and selling, farming and building—29 until the morning Lot left Sodom. Then fire and burning sulfur rained down from heaven and destroyed them all. 30 Yes, it will be ‘business as usual’ right up to the day when the Son of Man is revealed. 31 On that day a person out on the deck of a roof must not go down into the house to pack. A person out in the field must not return home. 32 Remember what happened to Lot’s wife! 33 If you cling to your life, you will lose it, and if you let your life go, you will save it. 34 That night two people will be asleep in one bed; one will be taken, the other left. 35 Two women will be grinding flour together at the mill; one will be taken, the other left.”

          37 “Where will this happen, Lord?” the disciples asked.

          Jesus replied, “Just as the gathering of vultures shows there is a carcass nearby, so these signs indicate that the end is near.”

          • Altaica

            I asked and I got Native American Tradition and the Shamanic way. My totems and the Great spirit are every bit as true to me as yahweh is to you. Some say they are the same, including my teacher, a Christian Shaman elder. I have heard some say, many paths one God. I don’t know, but what I do know is each person has a path that is right for them to follow and no-one can decide that for them.

          • Karolyn

            Amen, Altaica!

          • http://naver samurai

            Karolyn, shut up! Altaica, your faith is made up of idols and false gods. Remember “Thou shalt no make unto thee any graven image?” No idols. There is only one path to God and Heaven and that is Jesus. The Bible says: “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one may come to the father except by me.” Jesus said that. There is only one path and not many. Stop trying to sound like Oprah. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Altaica

            “Karolyn, shut up!”

            What’s the matter, can’t handle other views? Personally since you aren’t a Buddhist I don’t think you should even be calling yourself a Samurai as a true Samarui follows the Buddhist religion, but hey that’s your choice and I can’t change it just as you cannot change our choices nor tell us and condemn us for making them. If you are then you are not a true Christian because you are passing judgement and you’re bible says only God can judge.

            “Altaica, your faith is made up of idols and false gods. Remember “Thou shalt no make unto thee any graven image?” No idols. There is only one path to God and Heaven and that is Jesus. The Bible says: “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one may come to the father except by me.” Jesus said that. There is only one path and not many. Stop trying to sound like Oprah. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!”

            And no, my faith is not made up of idols and false gods. My faith predates your religion, and the Creator came and spoke to us. You have angels, they are messengers from God. We have Spirits, they are messengers from the Great Creator. Same thing. If you believe in angels then you cannot say I can’t believe in the same.

            That is not one of the laws given by the Great Creator to my people.

            Do you wear a cross around your neck? Graven Image. Do you have pictures of statues of Jesus or any of the Saints? Graven Image. Do you have any depiction of angels or other heavenly beings? Graven Image. Thou shalt not eat the flesh of any unclean animal…do you eat pork? Thou shalt not eat shellfish, “Do you eat lobster, crab, clams, shrimp or any other “Shellfish.” You shall not mark you body. Do you have tatoos? Thou shalt not round the corners of your hair or beard. Do you shave or get haircuts? Thou Shalt not kill? You’re a miltary man, have you ever killed, ordered the death of or contributed to the death of any person? Don’t preach your religion to me unless you follow every single one of the 100 or so laws and dictates within the pages without deviation, which I know you could not possibly do because you would be violating the laws of this country in doing so.

            I don’t give a crap about any celebrity, I don’t watch popular TV. I don’t care one bit about celebrities. Your new religion is free to walk and believe as it was, but it has no right to tell me mine is wrong or to take any action that would cause harm to another faith. I’ve been walking a path that is 60,000 years old and has done just fine. We don’t go starting wars, we don’t kill our children if they fail to honor their mother and father and we don’t burn people at the stake for believing differently. As for your Hell, you are aware you stole that idea from the Norse religion and the Roman and Greek religions right? Hel is the goddess of the underworld of the Norse religion. Hades/ Pluto of the greco roman. The romans and greeks believe that you went to hades and suffered endless torment to fit your crimes. No true loving creator would ever condemn those they love to an eternal system of torment and punishment just because their child does not have see things the way they want. My teacher is a Christian Elder Mystic and a Theologian. Her words make a lot more sense than yours. My father says a true Christian does not judge and does not condemn. You have done that, therefore you are not a true Christian. I’ll take the words of my Minister father to the words of someone who has demonstrated hate through their speech. That kind of thinking breeds stagnation. Without deviation there is no progress and you would still be in caves in the middle east.

          • http://naver samurai

            Sorry Altaica, you are wrong again! People have been believing in God since Adam and Eve. You can’t get any earlier than the first man and woman ever created by God. Neeeeed to get a life and some real learning under your belt. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Altaica

            Samurai:

            There were other humans besides Adam and Eve and your bible says so. When Cain was sent out into the world he came to people that were not from Adam and Eve. And he took a wife not from these people that was in no way related to Adam and Eve. You own words says your god has existed for a relatively small amount of time and since he did not create the other people and they were there before ADam and Eve then you cannot say belief in your god exists back to the very first humans. Adam and Eve were the first humans of your faith, not of the world. I’ve heard some christians state that Adam and Eve were only from 6000 years again. Clearly a young population of humans as the earliest known modern humans are 100,000 or more years old. We know also that prior to 6000 years ago there were beliefs in other deities, such as the Sumerians which predate biblical times. We also know that there was animal worship and nature worship predating biblical times from ancient temples such as the oldest known temple found in turkey with depictions of animals that is 11,000 or more years old. We also know that the Mayan’s existed more than 26,000 years ago in south america. There were other humans, there were other religions, most of which were polytheistic. Hinduism is far older as well.

    • alanjo55

      Roy, there is no religion in heaven because religion is Satan’s method to keep people away from knowing Christ in a personal way. Therefore, hell will be filled with the religious people of the world.

  • CP

    I will say that according to modern standards, the Mormon church is not a cult. They don’t go out and kidnap believers and non-believers to enforce their beliefs, and they do NOT forcibly keep you from leaving, the way a number of actual cults have, and continue to do. Ask some of Jim Jones’ followers, if you can find any still alive.

    • DaveH

      What is a Cult? Any religion, other than our own.

      • Altaica

        According to the dictionary every religion is a cult.

        • Harley Watkins (Real Name)

          You are right every RELIGION is a cult, or can be a cult. Notice how all religions end in “ism” They are all man made philosophies. Christianity is different in that it’s core belief is to lay down your humanistic life and through Personal spiritual transformation a person instead continuously strive to walk in the same footsteps of Jesus Christ. Christianity is not a cult, but rather the personal choice to follow the example of, live for and eventually die knowing that Jesus is God. Who you’ve accepted by faith alone that he came to atone for your sins, you’ve accepted his gift of salvation, and only in that will the imperfect you ever have been worthy enough to spend eternity with him a perfect God. Those who say they are Christians and do not show fruits of this, are not.

          Matthew 10.38-39
          38 If you refuse to take up your cross and follow me, you are not worthy of being mine. 39 If you cling to your life, you will lose it; but if you give up your life for me, you will find it.

          • http://naver samurai

            True that! True that! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

  • http://jassyl@centurytel.net James Kirksey

    Religion is the very core of character of a dedicated believer. In that sense, it does indeed matter that one is dedicated to a specific faith. Many born again Christians were taken in by President Jimmy Carter, who worshipped in a “break away” Church of my faith, Southern Baptist. Mr. Carter actually started the Church he attended in Georgia after becoming too liberal to worship at one of the Southern Baptist Churches, which followed the Faith and Message. When I consider one’s faith, I not only look at Mormons, Muslims, and other off beat types; I also look at those who are seldom practicing their faith of all religious denominations. Those, who equate the writings of Joseph Smith to Holy Scripture are certainly not main stream Christians. You may call this prejudice. However, this is how I choose to measure the values of candidates. It is critical to me that a President, will turn to God, when our nation is faced with problems and pray “In Jesus’ NAME.”

    • Harley Watkins (Real Name)

      Well said. You boiled it all down directly and succintly. We need a leader who will follow God, His Truth, and seek His Guidance and Providence for our nation. For far too long we’ve elected, and been led by many who have allowed us to go astray from the spiritual greatness that God had planned for us instead. Now more than ever we need a leader that serves God; not Governments, Globalists, Banking Cartels, Corporations, Money Changers, or Cabals, nor the Tyranny of evil men.

      • DaveH

        What matters to me is the character of a person. If they treat their fellow man respectfully, that is not lying to gain advantage, or using the Force of Government to steal the property of others, or using the Force of Government to take the lives of others (other than in self-defense), etc., I don’t care what they believe.

        • Harley Watkins (Real Name)

          DaveH,

          While I do respect your view, and actually hold it all in my own values. I do feel it has to be more than this. Our future President can be the nicest person in the world with impecable character, but if they do not seek the wisdom, guidance and providence of the Creator of all things seen and unseen… We’re just the blind leading each other in the same old rut. Yes, we need a leader of character, and graciousness, but we need one who will lead us back to truth.

          • DaveH

            Can you name a single non-believer in our long string of Presidents? Yet the Federal Government has grown Unconstitutionally large for at least the last 150 years. That required deception, because honest Presidents wouldn’t have allowed those violations of the main law of the land.

          • Song

            As usual, good point DaveH

        • OB1

          Thank you DaveH for posting Ron Paul’s website many months ago. He doesn’t preach Christianity, he has consistently LIVED it as evidenced by his action, words, life and deeds. Nor will he as he is humble, honest and a true believer in all sense of the WORD!

          http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/statement-of-faith/

          Statement of Faith

          “I have accepted Jesus Christ as my personal Savior, and I endeavor every day to follow Him in all I do and in every position I advocate.”

          -Ron Paul

          My faith is a deeply private issue to me, and I don’t speak on it in great detail during my speeches because I want to avoid any appearance of exploiting it for political gain. Let me be very clear here: I have accepted Jesus Christ as my personal Savior, and I endeavor every day to follow Him in all I do and in every position I advocate.

          It is God Who gave us life. As He is free, so are those He created in His image. Our rights to life and liberty are inalienable.

          I’m running for President of the United States because I believe that our traditions and way of life are under attack from an out-of-control federal government and reckless politicians who show no regard for what our Founders entrusted to our protection.

          America became the greatest nation in human history because a dedicated band of Patriots believed their God-given rights were worth fighting for, even if it meant challenging the world’s most powerful nation in what many deemed a “hopeless” cause.

          Being free meant so much to our forefathers that they put everything on the line – and thousands sacrificed their lives – to give the promise of liberty to not only their children and grandchildren, but to generations they knew they would never even meet.

          Their courage and determination guaranteed they would defy the odds and achieve victory.

          In this critical election, you and I must decide if the principles of limited government and personal freedom are worth fighting for once again.

          Since I’m asking for your vote and your trust to lead this nation, let me tell you a little bit about my background and beliefs.

          My parents raised my four brothers and me on a dairy near Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, where they set clear examples for each of us about faith, honest living, and individual responsibility. Their Christian values helped inspire two of my brothers to eventually enter the ministry, and provided me with the foundation I needed to practice medicine and one day become a U.S. Representative.

          In addition to my time in Congress, I am proud to have delivered over 4,000 babies as a country doctor in Texas. As I trained to practice medicine, I became convinced without a doubt that life begins at the moment of conception. I never performed an abortion, and I never once found an abortion necessary to save the life of the mother. In fact, I successfully helped women struggling with their pregnancies to seek other options, including adoption.

          I am running to Restore America Now, and by that I mean that it’s time to protect and promote the basic God-given rights inherent in the promise of America.

          We must pass on our heritage of liberty to the next generation – not tens of trillions of dollars in debt and liabilities.

          We must stand for life – not allow millions of innocent children to continue to be slaughtered with the government’s approval.

          We must follow the Biblical mandate of using honest weights and measures – not printing money out of thin air in almost complete secrecy and then handing it over to oppressive dictators.

          We must only send our men and women to fight for our country when the mission is clear, every necessary tool needed to win is provided, and we respect the Constitution by declaring war.

          Once war is declared, it must be waged according to Just War principles. We should only fight when it’s in our national security interest, and we should no longer do the corrupt United Nation’s bidding by policing the world.

          In Congress, I never vote for any piece of legislation that violates the Constitution’s strict limits on government power. I also do not participate in the congressional pension system.

          As President, I give you my word that I will only exercise my authority within the confines of the Constitution, and I will work every day to rein in a runaway federal government by binding it with the chains of that document.

          For my stands and beliefs, I am told that my efforts are “hopeless.” Like those who were proud to stand up for what they knew was right to create our nation, however, I firmly believe that now is a better time than ever before to reclaim our liberties. No situation is hopeless for those who receive their strength from their faith, family, and freedom.

          And like those Patriots, I have no doubt that liberty will prevail.

          I invite you to join me and millions of other Americans in taking our stand to honor our forefathers’ sacrifices and Restore America Now.

          For Liberty,

          Ron Paul

          • Harley Watkins (Real Name)

            Glad to see it’s emergence. Validating my point that being a Christian is an action, a life, not a dogma

          • DaveH

            Ron is one of a very few politicians who actually sticks to his principles.

    • katt221

      Mormons DO pray to God in Jesus’ name.

  • Bobby

    You’re RIGHT, American does need a great President!!! Therefore Romney is NOT the right choice – notwithstanding his religion.

    Only Ron Paul has a REAL PLAN, knowledge, experience and consistency (trust) that is needed to Restore America.

    True Colors come shining through:
    Top 3 donations to Romney: Goldman Sachs, Credit Suisse, and Morgan Stanley (Wall St. Bankers)
    Top 3 donation to Ron Paul: US Air Force, US Army, US Navy

    Think about it!

  • Sam I am

    In my honest opinion, human arguing over religion is akin to a bunch of feces throwing monkeys arguing about a cold fusion experiment. I don’t care what anyone says, none of us has the slightest damn clue of what to expect when we die except possiblity those that have near death expierences. For example, I can’t wrap my head around not breathing or eating or drinking. Think about that one for a bit. Can you imagine being a spirit in the afterlife and not having to breath? Wouldn’t that be completely #@$#$@ weird?

    • Harley Watkins (Real Name)

      It was… and I’m back; I had an NDE.

    • Karolyn

      Not weird – totally awesome! Total love, peace and joy forever!

  • ARLEN

    I agree that Romney should be judged as a candidate and not by religion. In doing that, he has proved that he is a Left Wing, BIG GOVERNMENT Republican, NOT A Conservative! The basic CANNON of all Protestant and Catholic Churches is the Trinity and the Belief that Jesus Christ is GOD. This comes from the Hebrew BIBLE. So the Jews believe whoever the CHRIST is, he will be GOD in the Flesh. Mormons DO NOT BELIEVE THIS! They believe that all of us will be a Jesus Christ on one of the planets in the universe and die for the sins of that planet, and the become a god. They believe that all these gods get together once a year and plan how they are going to run the universe. THEY ARE NOT CHRISTIANS, THEY ARE A CULT!

    • WPACE

      Arlen, When I read your comment “They believe that all of us will be a Jesus Christ on one of the planets in the universe and die for the sins of that planet, and the[y] become a god.” I almost hit the floor with laughter because that is not even close to what Mormons believe. Your preacher or some other bigot has feed you “hook, line, and sinker” I’m still laughing….
      Arlen, go to http://www.lds.org and learn from the source what Mormons believe.

      P.S. The official name of the Mormon church is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

      • Song

        Thank you WPACE…amazing that people can be so guillable, blind and biased while spewing the most ignorant, fallacious statements that they “believe” without even the tiniest effort of critical thought or research. If they are so quick to believe anything that they are told, it really makes me question their ability to make sound judgments in any other arena, such as politics.

    • Bruce Redd

      Arlen, Next time you post, have the decency to check your assertions about what you think the “Mormon” church believes against what The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints says it believes. I think you’ll find your claims are way off base. Who was the “expert” you got your claim from in today’s post. Whoever it was they lied to you.

      The use of the term ‘cult’ by pastors and other leaders of nominal Christian churches is nothing more than a scare tactic to keep the ignorant and uniformed from learning the truth for themselves. By definition all churches are cults.

    • OB1

      The LDS (Mormon) Church does NOT believe in the 3 in 1 person Trinity.
      They will say they love Jesus, however they absolutely deny the 3 in 1 person Trinity. They also believe the true Gospel of Jesus Christ was removed from the earth and “restored” by Joseph Smith in the 1840′s.
      Joseph Smith was also a FREE MASON! He gave the FREEMASON secret sign before he was shot! He was not a martyr because he was killed with the others in a shoot out defending himself! The Christian martyrs throughout history freely laid down their lives for their love of the Lord God, Jesus Christ. So there. Perhaps it is a good thing that Meyers brought this up today. Good topic.
      A religion can be considered a cult if a religious organization follows Jesus Christ, however they denies certain doctrines. The doctrines that are taught such as the Trinity, the resurrection, or salvation by grace alone. When that is the case, that particular religion is considered a cult. People have called Mormons cults. In addition, those that believes in Christian Science may fall into that category. However, it is recommended to do research on each religion to come to a true understanding of what each religion teaches and why.

      1.The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Mormonism).
      A very subtle, spiritual deception started in 1830 by Joseph Smith. This aggressively evangelistic group contends that it is the only true Church, and that all Christians outside Mormonism are following a deficient Gospel and a false Christ.

  • Altaica

    A cult as defined in the Dictionary on Dictionary.com

    cult   [kuhlt] Show IPA
    noun
    1.a particular system of religious worship, especially with reference to its rites and ceremonies.
    2.an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, especially as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.
    3. the object of such devotion.
    4.a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc.
    5.Sociology. a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols.

    So, yes, by definition Mormonism is a cult, but by that same token any religion can be called a cult, this includes all the mainstream religions. A rose by any other name and all that…

  • Tom Cook

    John, there is contradiction in your attempt at reason. You don’t care what religious beliefs a person has as long as he believes in “god.” All religions are basically cults. Christians who drink the blood of Jesus are straight thinking? Do they stop to evaluate their cannibalism? Especially Catholics who take it to “transubstantiation?” Cannibals. Mormons believe American Indians are the “lost tribe of Israel?” Quaint? Jews–”play stupid games.” My experience has taught me that the best people I have ever known; those who have the highest aspirations of personal conduct and the most devout code of ethics do not believe in some supernatural, mystical thing up in the sky, watching, which will hurt them if they eat some arbitrary “wrong” thing and do not chant a silly little homily. Religion is, as Arthur C. Clark so aptly expressed, the worst mind virus. Our best leader would be an atheist, devoid of the insanity of religious belief in superstition.

    • JTB

      Tom, no disrespect but you are an IDIOT!

      • Altaica

        Actually, politically speaking I don’t think so. A politician with no religious agenda won’t play favorites with one religion or another. I know a lot of Christians, pagans and Atheists. The only Hindu I know is completely moral and just. The Buddhists I know are the most moral of all those of differing religions I have met. Only 4 of the vast number of Christians I know actually follow the teachings of the book and are moral and just. Most of the “Christians” I know are hateful, bigoted, hypocritical sots. On the other side of things I have yet to meet an immoral Atheist. The Pagans I know are mostly moral, I have known a few that I do not find to be good and just people. We really should be looking at people based on their actions and not their religion. I really don’t care what religion someone is until they actually try to force their religion onto me by making laws based on their religion. I believe firmly that religion belongs in private practice not in the making of laws for as diverse a country as ours.

        As the Establishment Clause of the U.S. Constitution States, the government shall make no law endorsing a religion” In other words, no law can be made that is exclusively based on one religions views. The second part of the clause states that no law will be made to prohibit a religion. As endorsing one religion will likely prohibit another religion or vice-versa any instance of upholding a religious stance in the making of government policy and law is a double violation of our constitution.

        • Harley Watkins (Real Name)

          most of the Christian you know… unfortunately there are a great number of churchians in the mix. Glad to see you have found 4 who are genuine believers. :) There are more of us out there keep looking. Please remeber that though we do our best to walk in the light of the Lord, we are still human, imperfect, and sinful, so we are apt to have our moments showing our butts now and again. It’s how those individual repent that shows who they really are. I think this is a true indicator of a Christ Follower… professing not just their faithful pursuit of a personal relationship with a perfect God, but likewise their ingrained imperfection and that only by grace are we truly forgiven. If I’ve offended you, I sincerely apologize. It’s just the relationship I have with Jesus is so wonderful. At times I wish everyone could have the understanding I’ve come to know. After many paths led me this way and that… finding so many non-God shaped things to try to fit in my spiritual heart; it was so simple yet the hardest thing to believe it was Jesus shaped all along. I pray for everone I come in contact with and I will keep you in my prayers too.

    • DaveH

      Tom,
      While I certainly don’t think you’re an Idiot as expressed by JTB, I do think you’re wrong when you say “those who have the highest aspirations of personal conduct and the most devout code of ethics do not believe in some supernatural, mystical thing up in the sky, watching, which will hurt them if they eat some arbitrary “wrong” thing and do not chant a silly little homily”.
      I am also Atheist, but I certainly don’t think the fact that I don’t believe in a god makes me any better or worse than Religious people. In fact, I shudder to think what this country would be like without various religions teaching their followers a good moral code to aspire to.
      The public schools certainly aren’t teaching any kind of consistent moral code, unless you consider people helping themselves to other peoples’ money and other property using the Force of Government to be the moral thing to do.

      • Altaica

        It is sadly true that there is a breakdown of morality. We have a lot of crime, and a lot less parental guidance and accountability in our nation. A lot of parents seem to think it’s the school’s job to teach and discipline the kids, and the schools believe that morality and discipline are the job of the parents. I think both need to be accountable, and if a religious community helps with that, awesome. As long as the kids are learning morals somewhere. Sadly, there are many kids not learning good morals anywhere. I also think that sometimes there is a miscommunication of morality. People are taught things as if they are moral choices, when really they are taught flawed ideals that do nothing but serve to bring more hate and division.

        I also think that we need to get away from treating certain people as higher than others and treat them with equality. All forms of bullying should be addressed, regardless of the color of skin, religion or sexual orientation of those involved. Creating a “special” class only furthers division and inequality. We need to work towards that.

        Just some thoughts.

        • DaveH

          Good thoughts.

      • OB1

        You are a gift. A great teacher, and probably not an athiest. You are such a good reader and literate poster, with the dire for truth, what is freedom-loving, liberty loving, right and honorable, I shall suggest that you are a recovering Roman Catholic, who probably has been a very important link to teacher of us who actually do read your links and research. It will be OK. Keep it up. I would have never started on my new journey if you woulud’nt have posted this many, many months ago (you started this, Mr. Athiest!)

        http://www.pgorg.com/russianholocaust.html

        • DaveH

          Thank you for your kind words, OB1.
          But, I really am an Atheist. I don’t have a god believing bone in my body.

    • J. Robert

      Kinda like your cult of socialism and humanism, of which various flavours murdered over 162 mm last century.
      .
      Good to see you BowelMoveOn.org shills here. Seeing your absurd posts always affirms why I left your insane leftist cult

  • http://bellsouth.net Oakley Mann

    A well written and thoughtful story that is more relevent in the world today than it has ever been. The only reason I would vote against a person due to their faith is if they run as a devout Muslim.
    Islam does not have tolerance toward any other faiths. You can say what you want, but the way Islam is interpreted by most believers now a days is radical and extremist with intentions of doing more harm than good toward their fellow man. I would not under any circumstances vote for a Muslim, and that is final. And I am Christian.

    • Iris

      Double dittos. I do not regard Muslimism as a religion. It is definitely a cult and it is solely based on POWER OVER OTHERS. In other words either physical or psychological SLAVERY!

  • Chuck

    cults are defined deviant religious groups “deriving their inspiration from outside of the predominant religious culture”.[4] This deviation is often thought to lead to a high degree of tension between the group and the more mainstream culture surrounding it, a characteristic shared with religious sects.[5] Sociologists still maintain that unlike sects, which are products of religious schism and therefore maintain a continuity with traditional beliefs and practices, “cults” arise spontaneously around novel beliefs and practices.[6]
    Sounds like mormonism by definition is a cult and he was right in what he said. Mormons follow prophets and don’t believe the Bible in its entirety. I don’t think this makes him unable to be president but Jeffress’ comment is accurate

    • Capitalist at Birth

      I still have my copy of “The Book of Mormon” which was given to me by elders of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in 1965. I studied this book with them for 13 weeks. If you can believe that Joseph Smith actually spoke with God, you are less a skeptic than I. It struck me as rather cultist in nature then, and still does today. After all Jim Jones and David Koresh as well as untold numbers of Cult leaders have claimed to have spoken with God. God speaks to whom? Have any of you spoken with God? Religion is for the weak minded and can be used against all free men. Read the history of the Roman Catholic Church and you could soon believe it to be a Cult.

      • OB1

        The Roman Catholic Church split off from the Orthodox Catholic Church during what is called The Great Schism. I didn’t even know about ANY of Eastern Orthodox anything until DaveH brought up many monthsw ago a web link about the shear thousands of Orthodox Christians killed by the Marxist Communists after the Russian Revolution! I was over 80,000! in Russia as well as Ukrain and the other Baltic states! I wept! I could not believe what I read, and how I could have gone to college, had a classic good education and had never even HEARD this! What Hitler did to the Jews was evil, massive and horrible. What was done to the Orthodox Christians in Eastern Europe and Russia was and is beyond my description. As a result of this, (thanks DaveH!) I started reading books and written speeches from Alexander Solzenitzen
        (probably spelled this wrong…). Anyway, here is when the Eastern Orthodox and the Roman Catholic Church split (the Great Schism)brief definition:

        Definition

        Almost from the very beginning, Christians referred to the Church as the “One, Holy, Catholic [from the Greek καθολική, or universal] and Apostolic Church”.[9] Today, in addition to the Orthodox Church, a number of other Christian churches lay claim to this title (including the Roman Catholic Church, the Anglican Communion, the Assyrian Church and the Oriental Orthodox Church); however, the Orthodox Church considers these other churches to be schismatic and, in some cases, heretical. In the Orthodox view, the Assyrians and Orientals left the Orthodox Church in the first few centuries after Christ, and later the Roman Catholics did the same, becoming the largest ever group to leave the Church. This event is known as the East–West Schism, and it is traditionally dated to the year 1054, although it was more of a gradual process than a sudden break.

        Orthodox translates from the Greek to mean “correctly believing” or “correctly glorifying” (from the adjective orthos = correct, right and the verb dokein = seem (to be the case) and thus by extension “believe” or the noun doxa = belief) and was adopted by the Church in order to distinguish itself from what was becoming a larger and larger body of non-orthodox Christian denominations.[10]

        • libertytrain

          I believe it was probably Pope John Paul that worked to end the “schism” – should you watch doings in Rome you will see the Orthodox Church represented…

          • OB1

            The Orthodox church does communicate with the pope. The Catholic Orthodox Church has no Pope. It has alway and will be a council of bishops who represent the People! Orthodox priests are married, just as the apostle Peter was! It was the Great Schism that created the turmoil we all suffer from today!

          • libertytrain

            Sorry, I never felt like I suffered from a schism. But that’s me. I’m glad Pope John Paul mended that relationship. I’ve oftentimes had the pleasure of attending Orthodox Church Services.

      • Harley Watkins (Real Name)

        Directly from the lds.org website:

        To be forgiven of our sins, we need to repent and increase our faith in Jesus Christ throughout our lives. We will not be saved simply because we get baptized or say we believe in Jesus Christ. It takes work, but the work we do doesn’t only prepare us for heaven, it blesses us in this life too.

        Whereas I respect their right to publish this, if one their their steadfast resources of Holy scripture is truly the Bible: Old and New Testament, then this contradicts the very tennants of the Word of God… It’s Blasphemy. While I do believe that faith without works is dead. I cannot see how they can hold this position regarding the lack of Jesus Christ being the sole way of salvation. It’s not because of some faulty logic that I come to this conclusion, nor a lack of education on the subject. It’s a contradiction to the Word of God, plain and simply put.

        John 14:6
        6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

        Acts 10:39-43
        39 “And we apostles are witnesses of all he did throughout Judea and in Jerusalem. They put him to death by hanging him on a cross,[c] 40 but God raised him to life on the third day. Then God allowed him to appear, 41 not to the general public,[d] but to us whom God had chosen in advance to be his witnesses. We were those who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead. 42 And he ordered us to preach everywhere and to testify that Jesus is the one appointed by God to be the judge of all—the living and the dead. 43 He is the one all the prophets testified about, saying that everyone who believes in him will have their sins forgiven through his name.”

        2 Timothy 4

        1 I solemnly urge you in the presence of God and Christ Jesus, who will someday judge the living and the dead when he appears to set up his Kingdom: 2 Preach the word of God. Be prepared, whether the time is favorable or not. Patiently correct, rebuke, and encourage your people with good teaching.

        3 For a time is coming when people will no longer listen to sound and wholesome teaching. They will follow their own desires and will look for teachers who will tell them whatever their itching ears want to hear. 4 They will reject the truth and chase after myths.

        5 But you should keep a clear mind in every situation. Don’t be afraid of suffering for the Lord. Work at telling others the Good News, and fully carry out the ministry God has given you.

        6 As for me, my life has already been poured out as an offering to God. The time of my death is near. 7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, and I have remained faithful. 8 And now the prize awaits me—the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give me on the day of his return. And the prize is not just for me but for all who eagerly look forward to his appearing.

        It’s hard to see how their version of Christ is comparable to Jesus Christ on of Almighty God creator of all things.

        109 Prophecies foretell the coming of Jesus Chirst with 100% accuracy long before he was born in Bethlehem… And no wre in the New Testament are there any foretellings of Christ returning to Acient America, nor the Coming of Joseph Smith, nor one mention of any of the Mormon Prophets.

        One verse that has always been etched into my mind is:

        Revelation 22:18-19
        18 And I solemnly declare to everyone who hears the words of prophecy written in this book: If anyone adds anything to what is written here, God will add to that person the plagues described in this book. 19 And if anyone removes any of the words from this book of prophecy, God will remove that person’s share in the tree of life and in the holy city that are described in this book.

        So which is it… Did Christianity take from itself the doctrines of the Mormon church, ages before it existed; or is it more plausable that Joseph smith added additional texts to that which was already the complete word of God passed down to man?

        Examine in detail side by side the translated Dead Sea Scroll source of Isaiah and the Joseph Smith translation of Isaiah. You’ll find gaping disparities between the two, so much so, that it’s hard to fathom just where his translation was sourced, because there is no text to take it from that was translated incorrectly. Nothing is older than that DS Scroll of Isaiah more than 2000 years old, just like the printed copies of Isaiah in any modern day Bible, has the SAME 66 CHAPTERS and WHOLLY AGREES IN MEANING with our present-day text. Yet many modern writers, when discussing the Dead Sea Scrolls carefully avoid recognizing this fact BECAUSE THEY DO NOT WANT TO BELIEVE THAT THE BIBLE HAS BEEN ACCURATELY PRESERVED, not only in meaning, but even in wording.
        Joseph Smith’s redition is from the 1800′s…

        • Song

          It is because Harley, you don’t know anything about the Mormon faith and 5 seconds on the internet isn’t going to fill in the gaps for you…but continue your quest of criticism for those of the Mormon faith. You are only hurting yourself. Perry was a lot smarter than that.

  • iam

    I remember the strident objections to John F. Kennedy’s run for the White House. Many claimed that as a Roman Catholic, Kennedy would be manipulated by the Pope. Fifty years later, there is no evidence that he ever consulted the Pope about anything. Most people keep their religion separated from their jobs. We can see in the current occupier of the White House what happens when someone believe only in his own supremacy.

    • http://bellsouth.net Oakley Mann

      iam, very well stated

    • OB1

      JFK was probably the last American Democrat Patriot. He wanted true money and want an evaluation of the Federal Reserve (which is a private organization and NOT a division of OUR Federal Government!!). Barely weeks (if even taht) after he stated this, he was assinated. Read his books, then read Obama’s if you really want to puke. However, JFK was very much Irish Catholic, to stay on topic. He was decimated when his brother was killed in in a plan hit during the war. They were a very close family, well intentioned for all their faults. But Sr. Joe Kennedy was ambitious and affiliated with Neville Chamberlain in England. Total failure. What harmed JFK later but made him the man he became was this: His father authorized the pre-frontal lobotomy of one of his sisters for her erratic behavior. I think he was an amazing man, (a sinner (missing the mark: Greek dart game terminology). That is why, to this day, the Kennedy’s fund the Special Olympics. What a tragedy that has been turned to a better cause and purpose.

      KJV: Gal 5-22:

      But the fruit (evidence) of the Spirit is:

      Love, joy, peace, patience, faithfulness, gentleness, goodness, faithfulness, and self control.

      I don’t see or read or hear these qualities in anyone else, so now you can understand why I hold Ron Paul in such respect. I will never know how this man has held his ground with such humble faith. I only hope to God in this life that I can learn.

      Semper Fi
      Laos Dio

      • Song

        How is this for starters OB1…don’t comment on a religious faith that you don’t know anything about. I don’t hear Ron Paul doing that.

  • http://www.easyinvest.co.za peter

    At this stage, apart from religious convictions, which are often claimed but rarely practiced anyway and should not be a consideration,it seems that neither the present incumbent nor any of the proposed candidates fit the bill of “great”. It is just more of the same and the saying goes ” better the devil that you know”. A case of voting for the “least useless” candidate is not going to help at all and there is nobody yet exhibiting that special quality that is really needed. Perhaps there is no one who has it and we will just have to endure more of the same. I sincerely hope to be proved wrong otherwise we are well and truly screwed.

    • http://bellsouth.net Oakley Mann

      Good opinion but I have to disagree. In my opinion, any candidate now running is better than the one we have now. Someone had posted a link to the Libertine party. Now if Libetine’s are as they profess on their site, I am surely going that route because their views are identical to mine, they firmly believe in the 2nd amendment as do I and I will not vote for anyone who dismisses Americans rights to own and carry. Their views were refreshing but I will do some more studying before elections

      • Altaica

        Have you joined NAGR. Dudley Brown has been porting forth a lot of petitions and actions to protect the second amendment. I’d say I get on average something once a week for information or petitions.

        • http://bellsouth.net Oakley Mann

          Altaica, I was a member of NAGR but I quit two weks ago. I have been a life member of the NRA for many years, and when NAGR sent me a couple notices that they were not for pushing through legislation that the NRA sponsored, and openly going against it, I made a decision to leave NAGR. I felt the NRA would make good decisons and I appreciated the way they kept the asine “Fast and Furious” debacle in the limelight. My opinion only but I feel the NRA is right.

      • Capitalist at Birth

        I left the Libertarian Party in 1985 when they stated a belief in open borders. Ron Paul ran as their candidate for President in 1988. He soon realized that the Libertarian Party would never become a mainstream political entity and rejoined the Republican Party. I agree with many of their ideas and in fact voted for Roger McBride in 1984 for President. I only did so, only because I knew Reagan would win in a landslide.

        • http://bellsouth.net Oakley Mann

          Capitalist at Birth, mighty fine name you have there. I have just started looking into the Libertines. I like what I saw but I didn’t know about open borders, which I am against, open borders will be the end of America as we know it. I’m going to keep digging though. Frankly, I don’t know enough about Ron Paul to have a postive or negative opinion. Some sites say he is a crackpot, others proclaim him as the 2nd coming, I know neither of those views are correct and that is all I know

  • Harley Watkins (Real Name)

    If you take the time to use the Jewish Torah/Old Testament: Deuteronomy 13 describes the process of judging a Prophet, even a Mormon one.

    http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=deuteronomy%2013&version=NLT

    By following Scripture someone claiming to have the gift of prophecy can be weighed against God’s Holy word. If they do not pass all of the tests prescribed by God then they are not a prophet of God; but a false prophet leading the impressionable away from the truth of God. Joseph Smith claimed to be a prophet, and others are cited in the book of Mormon to be prophets as well. But the all fail the test of a God appointed prophet in one way or another.
    Unlike the Mormon Prophets, the Torah/Old Testament Prophets have been correct 100% of the time when judged against the same scripture.
    Mormonism is not Christianity. Mormonism was a created religion and a young one at that. Compare Joseph Smith’s translation of the Torah/Old Testament Book of Isaiah to the full and complete original text that was found dating back to antiquity from the Dead Sea Scroll holding it. You will clearly see the Joseph smith wrote himself and Mormonism into the Old Testament in order to be able to make the assertion that he is a Prophet of God proclaiming his truth. It is absolutely plagiarism.
    Mormonism also denies the Supreme Divinity of Jesus Christ as Lord of All as a part of the Exclusive Holy Trinity of God, who was also present at moment of Creation along with God the Father and Holy Spirit. Mormonism distorts Jesus’ True Godly image as the Savior of Man who took on mortality and died to atone for our sins, while ultimately rising from the dead to Proclaim his Divinity; Mormonism reduces him to a mere mortal man a creation of God like you or I. This fancifully creates the distortion of the original scriptures into a fallacy that we might all be “Gods and Goddesses” someday if only we earn that right during our experience here on planet earth. We cannot earn our salvation; it is a freely given gift of God through his righteousness.

    Romans 3:23
    23 For everyone has sinned; we all fall short of God’s glorious standard. 24 Yet God, with undeserved kindness, declares that we are righteous. He did this through Christ Jesus when he freed us from the penalty for our sins. 25 For God presented Jesus as the sacrifice for sin. People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed his life, shedding his blood. This sacrifice shows that God was being fair when he held back and did not punish those who sinned in times past, 26 for he was looking ahead and including them in what he would do in this present time. God did this to demonstrate his righteousness, for he himself is fair and just, and he declares sinners to be right in his sight when they believe in Jesus.

    If you don’t believe what I say, then please research it for yourselves… Mormonism is packaged very skillfully as to mirror the truth of God; however, that is exactly what Lucifer is most successful with, deception. Lucifer is content with leading everyone he can away from God’s Holy Truth, and he still believes in God too; knowing his days are numbered for what he has done against God. Lucifer is Satan and Satan means adversary. By following anything but God’s truth you’ve unconsciously aligned yourself with Satan and he’s more than willing and able to take you away from the eternal presence of God whether you deliberately bow down to him or not. Please don’t fall for his web of deceit.

    To many people are not willing to search out the truth of their existence, but rather are apt to believe what they are told. Inside of each of us is a yearning to find that spiritual connection that our souls are missing. But, don’t be too quick the decide what is truth and what if fiction. Only by true spiritual discernment will you be able to know what is right and what is not.

    Revelation 3:20-21

    20 “Look! I stand at the door and knock. If you hear my voice and open the door, I will come in, and we will share a meal together as friends. 21 Those who are victorious will sit with me on my throne, just as I was victorious and sat with my Father on his throne.

    • http://personalliberty.com Don

      Thank you. The plan of salvation through Jesus Christ is not man made.
      Joseph Smith puts himself equal with God . His book is not above the Bible. Our country was founded on CHRISTian beliefs. We need a president that believes that Jesus is the only true God and will depend on Him for making decisions and not some man made religion . No Mormon in the White House please.

      Don

      • Song

        wow…it is people like you Don et al., that give all Christians a bad name. Intolerant, judgmental, irrational, pious and arrogant. You would have all made excellent Puritans.

        • Song

          Oh, I forgot to add: IGNORANT!

          • Americansurvivor

            thank you Song….I agree-”Considering all the biased, bigoted, mean, ignorant and judgmental remarks made by the “Good Christians” on this board…I would be the first to say that I don’t want to be associated with you “Good Christians” at all”! I’m with you…

          • OB1

            Yes, we are not to judge others, judge not that ye be judged.However,
            The world is hostile to the message of Christ, so in this command to preach the Gospel, Christians are called to engage the world both intelligently (“as shrewd as snakes”) and righteously (“as innocent as doves”).

            or:

            Matthew 10:16

            King James Version (KJV)

            16Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

            And so I don’t get flattened on this, Before he was to be captures and crucified on the cross, Jesus sent Peter out to get weapons and he came back with 2 swords. And Jesus said to him “That is enough”. So of course we are to defend ourselves and this country and our homes and families.

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            Matthew 10:34

            King James Version (KJV)

            34Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. Mathew 10:30 (By the way, Mathew was an apostle, fried and follower of Christ who was a former tax collector!

            And the sword of the spirit IS the Word of God, which divides the truth from lies.

          • Song

            OB1: Considering the tenor of most comments on this board from “good Christians” then, I would not consider them to be intelligent or righteous. LOL

          • OB1

            Song,
            As far as “good Christians”:

            There are NONE righteous, no not one… (Romans 3:10). If ANY Christian does not easily and readily confess that they are a sinner with a black heart, they are a frick’n ass liar or as I like to say, POSER! Mormons put up a great front of goodness and civility. Their doctrine is anti history (written and verbal) and against the bible, which is the word inspired and breathed by God. To end this:

            Galatians 1:8 (King James Version)
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            Galatians 1:8

            King James Version (KJV)

            8But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

            The Angel Maroni, If he was angel, was from the dark side. end of lesson for the day. Bye.

          • Song

            hmmm OB1…don’t know who angel Maroni is. Might want to check yourself on that one. LOL

  • Raggs

    All that I can say is that at least rommney isn’t a muslim like some people in the white house….

    But besides that I very much dislike rommney, to me he is just another career boy politican.

    • JTB

      I agree with all of your message!

  • DaveH

    John says “Frankly, I don’t care about a candidate’s spirituality as long as he or she believes in God. That signifies to me that he or she believes in something larger than himself or herself and his or her ambitions”.
    Wrong country, John. This is the United States where we believe in Individual Freedom. If you want collectivism, you need to go somewhere else. You’d make a good Muslim, John.

  • Robert M

    A religious sect is considered a cult if its beliefs involve a denial of any of the essential Christian teachings such as salvation, the Trinity, Jesus himself as a person, his works and his miracles, his crucifixion, his death, his resurrection, his return, and the Rapture

    • Altaica

      Generally speaking, Christianity is not the only religion usually not considered a cult, but by some dictionary definitions all religions could be considered cults. Generally Christianity, Hinduism, Muslim, Judeism, Buddhism, Shintoism, Taoism, Native American Traditions, and others are regarded as religions, not cults. In many definitions however cult and religion are interchangeable. It depends on what context the word is being used.

    • OB1

      Very true. You can read my previous posts.

  • TheRealBob

    If romney gets the Republican nomination, I will exercise my right not to vote for someone I believe is a disciple of satan. I hope the Republicans realize that many who take their Christian faith seriously will refuse to vote for this devil. Mormonism is evil, period.

    • http://bellsouth.net Oakley Mann

      Please vote, even if independent. People refusing to vote because of this and that are surely leading the way into Depotism and Socialism

      • TheRealBob

        We are already there Oakley. If there is a third party candidate that is acceptable, I will vote for him.

    • Raggs

      If you decide NOT to vote than you give oblama a free ticket.

    • DaveH

      I was raised Catholic. I spent 10 years in Private Catholic School getting indoctrinated in the Faith. I’ve had a good Mormon friend for about 30 years. I’ve also know other Mormon’s.
      My Mormon friend has lived his life more closely to his religious code than any other person I’ve ever known (not perfectly though).
      My brother, on the other hand, is a practicing Catholic, and is about as Sociopathic (short of murder, as far as I know) as a person can get.
      Religion is no guarantee of goodness or badness.

      • Altaica

        Agreed. You have to take each person on their actions not their faith.

    • Song

      Oh, let’s get this right “TheRealBob” anyone that doesn’t believe like you is a “disciple of Satan”? Please do us all a favor then and don’t vote period. We don’t need anymore bigoted, myopic, ignorant, uninformed and uneducated people like you casting their vote. Our country is already overrun with hateful, bigoted people…just like you.

      • Karolyn

        Song – This is nothing. It appears that Bob is stifling himself today! :-)

  • Scott

    All good comments and I would agree that ALL mainstream religions, ALL their little “separated groups”, whether Baptist, Methodist, Catholic, Anglican, Lutheran, Mormon, etc… are ie.. CULTS! NO ONE knows what the true “christian faith” is or should be or would be in today’s world. THAT true christian faith died on the Cross over 2,000 yrs. ago and those since then have only created their own little “cult”, starting of course with the Eastern Orthodax and the Roman Catholic’s and ALL other NOW GROUPS are only little named CULTS that try to ensure that THEY are the only POWER OVER PEOPLE and THEIR MINDS. To buy into any such group is to be a member of a CULT! Enough said!!!

    • Paul

      God already stated to you that He has made it clear to us, that His existance is SO unmistakenly evident as the Creator God that only those people who CHOOSE to ignore HIS work, have become fools in their thinking and chosen to reject HIM. Jesus spoke, I Am the way the TRUTH, and Life and NO ONE will come to the father except thru me. All these other religions which exist from mans fabrications to reach up to GOD and tell man that he has done OKAY, and that All men can come to GOD on their dreamt up terms, are indeed damned. Their may indeed be someone who calls himself a jew or a catholic or a mormon whom was brought up in that denomination that is going to have peace with God, because he has beleived on the son of God for forgiveness of the sin against GOD. Those people whom believe in their religion… In that there might be multiple paths to God are indeed are false religions and are accursed. Because there is only one way to GOD, and that is thru the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. If any man say anything else to be added to that salvation, or opportunity to have peace with GOD let him be accursed/damned. That in God’s word. So allot of religious people are indeed going to be eternally separated from GOD. That is indeed enough said.
      Just because their are different denominations does not make GOD allow humans to come to God on their terms. We come to GOD by the one and only way that he has given us. That is good news not a hate crime. The good news is to be shared.. in that man can come to peace with his creator GOD. If there was any other way to come to GOD, then let the creator GOD be damned for killing his Son Jesus Christ. And fear for your life, because that GOD can not keep to his character of who he is. But the TRUTH is.. God is truth, and is only one God and he gave you only one way to have peace with him. THat is thru the salvation that comes only thru jesus christ. Nothing added to it. It is not what man has done that gets him to have peace with GOD, only when man depends on the work of what Christ suffered and did for man. Without Jesus Christ… all other religions do not have a prayer.

  • Mike

    Isaih 9:10 The church, where George Washington consecrated the United States of America in New York City did not fall when the two towers fell but the buttonwood tree saved it. (Buttonwood is in the Sycamore family)
    Tom Daschle qoted and fell.
    John Edwards quoted and fell.
    Obama quoted this and will fall.

    • http://bellsouth.net Oakley Mann

      I hope you are correct and will vote to make it so

  • James

    What concerns me most about Mitt Romney is not that he is a Mormon, but that he is getting so much campaign cash from Wall Street. Sounds like he would be beholden to that 1 percent while the other 99 percent see the same old “cash for influence” politics on Romney’s part. Absolutely disgusting!

    • Altaica

      No disagreement there. We don’t need anymore bought off politicians in the white house.

  • Jerry

    i dont have faith in pres Obaama~his plan and polocies havnt workedd and his stimulus 2 wont work either!

  • Glenn

    If the issue was merely about Romney being a Mormon I would have no problem with that. Politically speaking I have a lot of concerns about his positions. If he were the nominee I would be frustrated that, like McCain, I would be picking the lesser of two evils. As to his faith it is not, to me, whether he is a Mormon but that he and others such as Glenn Beck are trying to portray themselves as mainstream Christians equal to Baptists, Methodists, etc. when they are not. I applaud their family-centered, values-oriented practices but until prominent people come clean about the extra-biblical tenets of their faith which seperates them from Christianity I cannot let this go as an issue. There are attempts to compare the benchmarks applied to Romney’s faith to other religions such as Judaism and Islam. I disagree with that. A Jew or Muslim may play down aspects of their faith to appear more moderate but they would never try to falsely call themselves Christian as if there were no difference. I know elections are about the direction our country will go but peoples’ eternal fate is still important to me. If a candidate is open and honest about his faith and people choose to follow that path so be it. Romney would have a very large pulpit to claim something that is not true and lure people down a false path. Until he is more open about what Mormonism really believes I will always keep him at arm’s length unless I feel I have no other choice.

  • Jonathan

    Actually, Pastor Jeffries had the right of it. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is a cult. A cult is simply any religious movement that diverges from a recognized religion by significantly changing the accepted doctrine of that religion. In the first century, the Christians were a Jewish cult. The Christians were teaching in the synagogues about the Messiah Jesus of Nazareth, who as the Son of God, had died for the sins of man, then rose again and ascended to Heaven. This varied from Jewish doctrine that had the Messiah conquering the earth.

    Mormons vary significantly from the Christian faith. They believe that God was once a man named “Elohim” who lived on another planet, and that Elohim became a god by following the rules of a god on his world. Elohim is married to a goddess who is sometimes referred to as “Shekinah,” and they live on a star named Kolob where he studies and learns new things. The Mormon god and his wife, both of whom have flesh and bone bodies, have lots of “spirit children,” the first two of whom are Jesus (the older) and Lucifer, with the rest of humanity being born as Lucifer’s younger brothers and sisters. Lucifer resisted Elohim’s plan to “save” this world and Lucifer’s follwers were cursed to become demons and not be born (compressed) into human bodies. The remaining human spirit children and Jesus sided with Elohim, and have the privilege to be compressed into human bodies. Since Jesus was a spirit, Elohim had to have sexual relations with Mary to allow Jesus to be compressed. Jesus was born, got married, had kids, atoned for human sin (including his own) in the Garden of Gethsemane, before dying on the cross. As a result, Mormons believe they can become gods of their own worlds, a process they call salvation. To do this, a Mormon must declare that he or she is a Mormon and that Joseph Smith (a con artist from Pennsylvania) is the only true prophet of Elohim, pay ten percent of their income to the Mormon church, follow the laws of Elohim as put down in the Book of Mormon (and not the Bible), and be found worthy by his or her peers. The good Mormon then may baptize the dead, engage in celestial marriage, and learn the four secret handshakes (I kid you not).

    Compare that to Christianity.

    Source of infomation: Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry

    • Jonathan

      Sorry, Joseph Smith was from Vermont, and lived and was tried as a “disorderly person” in Pennsylvania.

    • Americansurvivor

      Jonathan- Your remarks are incorrect- maybe you should do some research on a mormon.org or lds.org. Taking things out of context is what starts all the hypocracy and hatred…and yes you will be held accountable for making up ridiculus accounts to something you probably do not understand. 1/2 your stuff isn’t even true… Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints aren’t perfect, only His (Jesus Christ) gospel is. As is anyone in any other church isn’t perfect. But many people try their best to live a good honest life and do not need to hear your absurd accusations.

      • Altaica

        All I really know about the mormons is they have magical undergarments. Never really known one or researched their faith much. Maybe I will, bet’s it’s interesting.

        • Jonathan R

          There is nothing “magical” about the undergarments worn by faithful members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (you call Mormons). They are daily and personal reminders of sacred covenants to follow the teachings of Christ, and symbols of the priesthood power shared between husband and wife within the bonds of marriage, a loving bond that we believe can be eternal. To put this in perspective the garments are not religious vestments that shout to the world, “look how holy or important I am” as is often the case with gold encrusted, fancy outer vestments, or white collars worn by the priests of most Christian faiths. I don’t say this to belittle any member of any faith. Each has the right to believe and demonstrate their commitment to Christ – I respect that. I choose to endeavor to demonstrate my personal commitment to Christ in the way I choose, as is my right, try as anyone might to belittle the way I choose to live my religion. There is nothing magical about it.
          If anyone wishes to find out what members of the (Mormon) Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believe just take the time to go to http://www.mormon.org, or http://www.lds.org (it is .org not .com).

          • Altaica

            Oh. Sorry I was mistaken. so the undergarments are akin to the religious symbols worn by other faiths. You’re just more discreet in your symbolism. I think I understand a bit more. makes sense. I’ll have to have a look at those sites this weekend.

        • Karolyn

          I had several visits from a Mormon couple who were trying to indoctrinate me. I had decided to give it a try. I was totally flabbergasted at what I learned and at the time felt that it would totally change my life (I was Christian at the time.). However, when I went online and read what former LDS members wrote about the lack of generosity to those of other faiths and other problems, I decided not to pursue it. I also did not like the idea that everyone called everyone else “brother” and “sister” and that women could not hold any office in the church. I also found that their divorce rate was very high (maybe because of the repression of the women?) Regarding the generosity comment, they are much like Jehovah’s Witnesses, who are not likely to do much for anyone not of their own faith. I have experienced this with my Jehovah’s neighbors.

      • Harley Watkins (Real Name)

        Please explain where Jonathan is wrong. What are these half-truths that he isn’t correct in stating? Please show us how? If the Book of Mormon is the “Higher Education” of Christianity when compared with the Old and New Testament Gospels; then please show us evidence of it’s foretelling in the New Testament, in the same way that 100% of Old Testament Prophecies point to the truth of the New Testment Gospels thatwere yet to come. Please show us this?

        • Song

          Considering all the biased, bigoted, mean, ignorant and judgmental remarks made by the “Good Christians” on this board…I would be the first to say that I don’t want to be associated with you “Good Christians” at all! What a laugh. You people have got to be some of the most ignorant, biased, judgmental people on the face of the planet and you claim to worship Jesus Christ or have any understanding of his teachings? Now that is what I would call blasphemy. LOL

      • J

        Americansurvivor, what is not correct? I’m not making any of this stuff up. From their own literature:

        Baptism for the dead, (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. II, p. 141). This is a practice of baptizing each other in place of non-Mormons who are now dead. Their belief is that in the afterlife, the “newly baptized” person will be able to enter into a higher level of Mormon heaven.

        The book of Mormon is more correct than the Bible, (History of the Church, 4:461).

        The Devil was born as a spirit after Jesus “in the morning of pre-existence,” (Mormon Doctrine, p. 192).

        Jesus and Satan are spirit brothers and we were all born as siblings in heaven to them both, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163; Gospel Through the Ages, p. 15).

        A plan of salvation was needed for the people of earth so Jesus offered a plan to the Father and Satan offered a plan to the father but Jesus’ plan was accepted. In effect the Devil wanted to be the Savior of all Mankind and to “deny men their agency and to dethrone god,” (Mormon Doctrine, p. 193; Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p. 8).

        God used to be a man on another planet, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 321; Joseph Smith, Times and Seasons, vol. 5, p. 613-614; Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p. 345; Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 333).

        “The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s…” (D&C 130:22).

        God is in the form of a man, (Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p. 3).

        “God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens!!! . . . We have imagined that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea and take away the veil, so that you may see,” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345).

        God the Father had a Father, (Joseph Smith, History of the Church, vol. 6, p. 476; Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses, vol. 5, p. 19; Milton Hunter, First Council of the Seventy, Gospel through the Ages, p. 104-105).

        God resides near a star called Kolob, (Pearl of Great Price, p. 34-35; Mormon Doctrine, p. 428).

        God had sexual relations with Mary to make the body of Jesus, (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 4, 1857, p. 218; vol. 8, p. 115). – This one is disputed among many Mormons and not always ‘officially’ taught and believed. Nevertheless, Young, the 2nd prophet of the Mormon church taught it.

        After you become a good Mormon, you have the potential of becoming a god, (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345-347, 354.)

        There is a mother god, (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 443).

        God is married to his goddess wife and has spirit children, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 516).

        The trinity is three separate Gods: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. “That these three are separate individuals, physically distinct from each other, is demonstrated by the accepted records of divine dealings with man,” (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 35).

        The true gospel was lost from the earth. Mormonism is its restoration, (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 182-185.)

        Jesus’ sacrifice was not able to cleanse us from all our sins, (murder and repeated adultery are exceptions), (Journal of Discourses, vol. 3, 1856, p. 247).

        “Elohim is literally the Father of the spirit of Jesus Christ and also of the body in which Jesus Christ performed His mission in the flesh…” (First Presidency and Council of the Twelve, 1916, “God the Father,” compiled by Gordon Allred, p. 150).

        If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation. There is no salvation [the context is the full gospel including exaltation to Godhood] outside the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 670).

        There is no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith as a prophet of God (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p. 188).

        We were first begotten as spirit children in heaven and then born naturally on earth, (Journal of Discourse, vol. 4, p. 218).

        “One of the most fallacious doctrines originated by Satan and propounded by man is that man is saved alone by the grace of God; that belief in Jesus Christ alone is all that is needed for salvation,” (Miracle of Forgiveness, Spencer W. Kimball, p. 206).

        “Many men say there is one God; the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost are only one God. I say that is a strange God [anyhow]–three in one and one in three. . .It is curious organization… All are crammed into one God according to sectarianism (Christian faith). It would make the biggest God in all the world. He would be a wonderfully big God–he would be a giant or a monster,” (Joseph Smith, Teachings, p. 372).

        All these quotations are from the Mormon writers in good standing with the LDS church. So where am I incorrect and taking things out of context?

        • Jonathan

          BTW, “J” is me.

    • DaveH

      It has always amused me to see people, who believe in something they can’t see, feel, hear, taste, or smell, just because some other human being has written about it, putting down other people because they believe in something they can’t see, feel, hear, taste, or smell, just because some other human being has written about it.

      • Harley Watkins (Real Name)

        Belief and the later, Faith in Jesus Christ is completely a personal experiential journey. A believer does not just wake up one day and proclaim that they believe. Believing is only re-enforced through excersizing one’s faith in Jesus. Allowing one’s self to be vulnerable and yeilding to an almighty provider instead of themselves, and them witnessing firsthand that Omnipotent and Omnipresent provider working personal miracles in one’s life is the way a Christian’s belief is founded. It’s a really cool way to live, you should try it… it’s rather exciting. :)

        • Song

          Really Harley, and then what happens? You get to judge others by your narrow perspective and set of beliefs? Funny, I don’t recall Jesus Christ teaching any of the principals that would approve of you and others on this board to judge and castigate “non-believers” according to your limited point of view. LOL

          • OB1

            No one on this board is castigating anyone. We come here for liberty and freedom to open and discuss relevant and very important knowledge, wisdom (that is learned from life experience, reading, our verbal history from our friends and families and our own spiritual experience. I have learned more from this site in 9 months than 4 years of college. Read my earlier posts to you. Jesus was not a wimp kneed pacifist as portrayed in media and Hollywood films. He didn’t come to bring peace, but a sword, a sword of Truth that cuts to the very heart of man (I wish Kate8 was here…she would have liked this one!):

            Show resources
            Matthew 10:34

            King James Version (KJV)

            34Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

            John 1:1-18 (King James Version)
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            John 1:1-18

            King James Version (KJV)

            John 1

            1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

            2The same was in the beginning with God.

            3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

            4In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

            5And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

            6There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. (the Baptist)

            7The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

            8He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.

            9That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

            10He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

            11He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

            12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

            13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

            14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

            15John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.

            16And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

            17For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

            18No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

            John 14:9

            King James Version (KJV)

            9Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

            Because of this statement by Jesus himself, the Mormon religion, full of (some) right living good (sinner like the rest of humanity)people, cannot in truth call itself a full trinity believing, 3 in one person,
            theologically sound Christian religion. And yes, I’d much rather have this conversation now than 2 years from now. BTW, the word “sinner” referred to a dart-type game at the time, that was a term meant to mean “missing the mark”. What the Roman Catholic Chuch and later the many good intentions “sinners” theologians of the Protestant Reformation did with it in translation is sad. Face it, we live in a flawed, fallen world. Jesus said “Be of good cheer! For I have overcome the world!”

            Semper Fi
            Laos Dio

        • http://naver samurai

          OB1 and Harley, darn good posts and very true! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

  • Barbara

    I don’t think a person’s religion (not the specific denomination) should be considered in an election. The only thing that matters is that that religion is a part of their character. That is what is important. Character. I’m getting tired of watching the people who want you to believe they can be a good president act like schoolyard bullies. There are only two who come across as even adult. Herman and Newt. Interestingly enough, they are the only ones with a sense of humor.
    But it is not just the candidates to blame. The moderators last night were instigators. They think it is good to have these feuds on camera. It’s not. It makes me sick to my stomach to see how they keep stirring up the discord. And they call themselves journalists. Bah, Humbug!

    • DaveH

      Herman and Newt? Two Military Statists? Talk about Schoolyard Bullies.

  • John D. Beach

    The word “cult” in many foreign languages is translated as “sect,” particularly with reference to the various protestant sects that constitute protestantism. Russian, for example, actually has a verb, formed from the stem, which means to “interpret, explain or expound from a cult, sect or group perspective.” The moral and ethical values which stem from religious teachings are what should be considered with regard to persons running for public office. I would have a problem with a Muslim candidate and the impact of Shariah Law as a religious and cultural factor.
    In his exclusionary interpretation, the Texas reverend does accurately present the teaching of the gospel, but since “God is not willing that any should perish but all should come to repentance,” it should be that emphasis as well as the teaching of Jesus that “I am the Way, the Truth and the Life, NO man comes to the Father but by me.” or “Except a man be born again, he can not see the Kingdom of God.” Christianity is narrow because “Straight is the Way and narrow is the gate that leads to life everlasting.”
    It is a choice and it does not imply any politically correct equality of religions before some secular standard. Like political choice, however, WOE unto him who does not make the right one!

  • Vincent

    I would support any candidate who supported Christian beliefs: end abortion, limit government to the protection of freedom of its citizens (and never the redistribution of wealth) through national defense and the courts. Mitt Romney has a weak but not horrible record on both of those issues. He could be much stronger on those issues, however, and still be a Mormon, or a Jew, or a Hindu, etc.
    But Mr. Jeffress has his freedoms too. The Jewish Journal took the opportunity of Mr. Jeffress’s impolitic political remark to insert its purely defensive theological leanings when it wrote the Mr. Jeffress’s latest comment “is in the same spirit as the pastor’s laughable assertion a few years ago that ‘Mormonism, Islam, Judaism and Hinduism … lead people to an eternity of separation from God in hell.’”
    Mr. Jeffress’s comment is hardly “laughable” to a true Christian. It is a basic tenet of the faith. It is not a happy fact. In fact, The Bible tells us that Christians will not enter the Kingdom of God in eternity until nearly all Jews welcome to their hearts Jesus Christ as Messiah.
    The Jewish Journal, in trying to paint a Christian upholding Scripture as nutty, is more guilty of inserting religious intolerance into the public sphere than Mr. Jeffress.

  • TML

    “Frankly, I don’t care about a candidate’s spirituality as long as he or she believes in God. That signifies to me that he or she believes in something larger than himself or herself and his or her ambitions”

    I don’t the logic in writing an article that states how it should not matter what persons’ religious beliefs are, while giving a condition of believing in “God”. Which God? Does this exclude Hindu or Buddhist? Even what you say a belief in God signifies for you does not hold up to scrutiny.

    I’ll add a couple more quote from Thomas Jefferson for you.

    “In every country and every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty” – Thomas Jefferson

    “Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because if there be one, he must more approve the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear” – Thomas Jefferson

    Make you choice by the candidate who will best uphold the Constitution, and the value this country was built upon.

    • TML

      * don’t >see< the logic

    • Buddy

      Yes, TML, there is a lot of confusion in Mr. Meyer’s comments. In any event, religious beliefs have a long tradition. As can be seen in the comments here, such beliefs generate a lot of emotion. As to whether there is a true religion or not (I haven’t figured that out yet), I am satisfied with my belief that everything is progressing as it will regardless of whom is the leader of the formerly great USA.

  • http://yahoo Skyraider6

    ask yourself who vetted this fool. they should be subpoenad to testify how they reached their decision. excuse the spelling

  • James

    Jesus Christ Himself said, “I am the way, the truth and thelife: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” (Jn14:6) His followers understood what He taught, their court testimony concerning Him, “Neither is there salvation in any other: forthere is no other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.” For this stand, Jesus was crucified and His followers were hounded, tortured and killed. This is why Biblical Christian faith is so hated today. There has been more written about Jesus Christ than all other personages in history put together, so the material concerning this is massive. When you wade through the questions, assertions, attacks; the historical and courtroom quality evidence, the key issue you come to is the question, “Did Jesus rise from the dead?” If He did He is truly God. If He did not, then he was either mentally ill, or a diabolical fien. The second key question is, “How reliable is the Bible?” I devoted several years of major attention to these questions as I have realized that one’s religion/faith is the core of your personality–the deepest issues of your life. F

  • jopa

    Who were these hand picked morons in the audience during this debate.Ron Paul is the only one that made any sense and was the dignified one on stage.The audience barely acknowledges his discussion and gives a token, feeble applause basically saying, okay old timer you have had your say now take your meds and its rime for nigh nigh.The winner last night Sarah Palin.

    • OB1

      Ron Paul has integrity, is knowledgeable, knows history and is ever faithful. He is NOT a gifted orator. Did you perhaps notice that really no other candidate insulted or attacked him? Only Santorum does occasionally. He will attack untruths in others’ statements, is never personally insulting, and is secure and HUMBLE at the same time! He reminds me of the Old Testament prophet Samuel. Again, I say he is wise, humble and has lived a life of faith and consistency that inspires me to take responsibility to educate myself, respect and love others, and stand up in humility and fearlessness for what I believe in. How many other candidates are there who attract young, middle aged and elderly? Active military support him more than any other candiadate! Why! The man respects LIFE and true freedom because he actualy is mature and grounded and KNOWS what it means! He’s like a Moses for our times who needs an Arron! And guess what? That is going to be the spoiled, media educated (ugh!) people of the US. Yes! US!

  • AJ

    I belive that there needs to be a separation of Organized religion and state. There also needs to be State under God. God is not a religion, God is God. Religion is man made. If you want to talk about Teachers Christ came here to teach us how to seek the Kingdom of God not start a religion. He taught us how to live and how to Love one another. I don’t care what religious belifes a canadate professes. I want to know if they’ve sold out to the NWO or not. For the NWO is nothing more than satanic greed and corruption in it’s purest form. Romney, Perry and the main streamers are all NWO sell outs. So they can profess their religious beliefs all they want. Lies fall off their lips when they speak. I’ll vote for a candidate that can’t be bought and stands on a consistent voting record. Yes, “What the United States needs now is a leader who can guide the country toward a better future.” Not the future agenda of the NWO. Vote Ron Paul!

    • John

      Pastor Jeffress is correct. Any conservative or right wing republician who votes for Mitt Romney has certainly abandoned his faith and values. Then you are no better then a hypocrite if you claim to be a Christian. Bottom line, you can’t serve two master’s.

  • Cynthia

    I agree with Jeffress that Mormonism is a cult. They believe that Jesus and Satan are brothers! Blasphemy!! They claim to believe in Jesus to make themselves sound Christian, but their “Jesus” isn’t MY Jesus! My Jesus became a flesh and blood man who died for my sins on the cross! The Mormon “Jesus” died for naught, since they believe you can still choose Him after death! Um, I don’t think so! They also believe that the husbands are responsible for their wives’ salvation, and if they don’t want their wives in Heaven, they won’t be there! I think they also believe that if you die single, you don’t go to Heaven. God never promised us that we’d become gods and goddesses, either! Mormons believe the men will become gods and get women in the afterlife to populate planets with little gods and goddesses! Sounds a lot like Islam and the men believing they’ll get virgins in Paradise! No. Mormons aren’t Christians, no matter how much they talk about Jesus! I’m praying the nominee won’t be Mitt Romney. Thank God Jon Huntsman doesn’t have a prayer!

    • Americansurvivor

      Okaaayyy- you are way off track sister….Please see an offical Mormon site before you spat this crazy stuff. Mormans belive in the bible- the king James Version. Mormons KNOW that Jesus died for everyone’s sins and was ressurrected. It’s called the Atonment.Do your homework. I do not even know where you made up the husbands and wives thingy. Every person is responcible for their own works and accountablitiy to God. No one can do it for you. Husbands won’t make the judgement on who will return to heaven and God, only God will be the judge of that. And for singles and men getting virgins, girl you are out there with that one…
      PLEASE! Before you make up some crazy stuff about someone else’s religion, do your research and promote honesty. You have just written stuff that makes you look like a damn fool, girl..tsk tsk.. :D

      • OB1

        LDS do NOT believe in the Holy Trinity. Period.

        John 14:9

        King James Version (KJV)

        9Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

        • Song

          So what OB1. It seems that you and many others missed the point of this article entirely! Wow!

        • WPACE

          Many times people look at me and say “you look and act just like your dad”. Am I and my dad the same person? No, we are completly different people but I was taught by my father and do many things as my father does. Not exactly as my father does because I am not a perfect person. Christ, on the other hand, was/is a perfect. He was taught by his father and he and the father are one in purpose.

          OB1, you use a scripture in attempt to prove your point so here are a few to show that God the father and Jesus Christ are seperate:

          Acts 7:55
          55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

          Note the phrase “Jesus standing on the right hand of God” That sounds pretty seperate and distinct to me.

          In the garden Jesus prayed and said:
          Luke 22:42
          42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.

          Note the phrase “not my will, but thine, be done”. The words ‘my’ and ‘thine’ distinctly identify two seperate individuals.

          I can bring up many other scriptural references that show that God the Father and Jesus Christ are seperate and distinct individuals but I don’t want to “beat a dead horse”. The best thing I can say is that when Joseph Smith prayed about which church he should join, he was visited by God the Father and his Son Jesus Christ. In that visitation, the issue of the Trinity was laid to rest because Joseph saw two personages and God, speaking to Joseph said “This is My beloved Son, Hear Him”. I have studied, pondered, and prayed about the teachings of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ as found in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and I have received a personal witness through the power of the Holy Ghost that it is true. Nothing anybody can say contrary about the LDS church can change or take that away. I bear that witness in the holy name of Jesus Christ.

    • meteorlady

      Here’s the deal with Jeffers…. he has a very large church which allows him to live very large. He will say or do anything to keep that status and the many in his congregation. I think churches like his are a cult also because he leads through fear and intimidation. Don’t belong to my church – you’re going to hell….. don’t want to believe in what I preach – you’re wrong and going to hell…..

      • Song

        Exactly meteorlady and what is even more hypocritical is that they claim to be followers of Christ? LMAO

      • OB1

        He is very uneducated, un-well read and educated and not humble.

    • meteorlady

      Here’s the deal with Jeffress…. he has a very large church which allows him to live very large. He will say or do anything to keep that status and the many in his congregation. I think churches like his are a cult also because he leads through fear and intimidation. Don’t belong to my church – you’re going to hell….. don’t want to believe in what I preach – you’re wrong and going to hell…..

      Fact is though, except of a Muslim, I would vote for anyone that would do a good job, was honest and had the best interests of this country at heart.

  • Brad

    Harley,
    While your last post was very articulate and well written, it distorts a number of basic tenets of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints(Mormons). However well intentioned, spreading half truths and misrepresenting someone’s faith does not enhance understanding. It undermines it.
    I agree with Mr. Myers that America “More than ever needs a great president”. I saw first hand how Mitt Romney turned around the Salt Lake Olympics. The results speak for themselves. While not yet committed to Romney I have no doubts about his ability to use sound judgement in making good decisions.

    • Harley Watkins (Real Name)

      Brad,

      If you would be so kind please explain to me these “half-truths” that you believe I speak, really are? If I am wrong as a human, with a genuine heart of forgiveness and love, I would like to atone for my error. Please assist me.

    • DaveH

      Vote for Romney if you want a continuation of Big Government Growth.

      • meteorlady

        Vote for Perry if you want to have cutbacks in education. Vote for Perry if you want to subsidize schooling for illegals. Vote for Perry if you want to give amnesty….

        • http://naver samurai

          They already do this in California (Mexifornia). FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

      • No fool

        I have no issues with him being a Mormon, but vote for Mitt if you want another moron in office. Remember he came up with the failing Obamacare version for Massachusetts first.

      • OB1

        Thanks DaveH, as always. I am always late, but ever on time. You have been a great teacher.

  • C. R.

    Don’t care about belief system (altho Mormonism is considered a cult because of their “baptismal” and somewhat radical ideas), but Romney’s political stuff ain’t mine so can’t vote for him. He made a mess of
    MA and we don’t need that thinking at the top. I am going for Ron Paul and Cain at this point (want Palin, but have to pick something now and these two have America at heart and know how to get things done). No Perry, No Romney, No Huntsman, etc. We need real people and not RINOS nor politicos. We have enough of them for way too many years. The Repubs want Romney means I do not. They never choose what we want or the things we want done, ever!

  • Sue

    How do you define a cult? A cult is any religion who uses another book other than the bible? Mormonism does not use the bible as it has its own book, The Book of Mormon. Do we mix Church and State when electing? If you are a christian, you think about the laws that will be made. It should be important for all christians to elect someone with truth, moral values, good judgement, and christian ways. Most Mormans lead a life of good moral values. One must elect someone that they feel represents their own feelings and that the laws made by this person would reflect good judgement with what is needed for the times at hand. My feeling, I would move past the Mormon aspect. Due to the state of the economy, we need someone who can lead. If you like his views and you feel confident that he can turn the US around, vote for him. Romney is in the running for my vote, but I am looking at others as well. The GOP really needs to define the US problems with a defined answer of what they will do to correct the economy. He with the best plan, wins!

    • meteorlady

      Here’s the actual definition – you be the judge….

      1. a particular system of religious worship, especially with reference to its rites and ceremonies.

      2. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, especially as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.

      3. the object of such devotion.

      4. a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc.

      5. Sociology. a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols.

    • Wendell

      Ah, Sue, but the Morman’s do use the King James version of the Bible in their teachings, along with the Book of Morman and Doctrine and Covenents. The believe the Bible to be a history of the inhabitants of the European continent before, doing and after the time of Christ. They also believe the Book of Morman to be a history of the people that lived in the Americas from about 400BC to 600Ad. The Book of Morman came from a series of brass plates, written in hebrew, found in upper state New York in 1830 and translated by Joseph Smith.
      They belive that since the Bible has been translated so many times that some errors have occurred and therefor needed to be clarified thru latter day revelations, thats why you see some differences in what they believe compared to other churches.
      So, Mitt Romney and the members of the Morman church believe in Jesus Christ as the Savior and are Christens.

      • Wendell

        Sp. of Christians

      • OB1

        Not. Please read my previous posts.

  • Clint

    Would a Presidential candidates religion matter, if they were practicing Luciferians? Either way, the shadow government is heavily into the occult and they control whatever puppet gets elected. Even though I fully support Dr. Ron Paul, it does not change this fact. Awareness and vigilance must be our utmost concern. As Americans we must not turn a blind eye to evil since evil will prevail if enough good people remain apathetic and indifferent.

    • OB1

      Fear not:

      1 John 4:4 (King James Version)
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      1 John 4:4

      King James Version (KJV)

      4Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

  • meteorlady

    I have worked with a lot of Mormans. They are self-sufficient and take care of each other. They are devout in their faith though none ever tried to push their religion on me. I disagree with the offshoot sects that take multiple brides and brainwash the children, but hey, we all have nuts among us.

  • donald hulbert

    I think mormanism is a cult but I would still vote for a mormon if he would make a good president.

    • Brian

      I think all religions are cults. So does the dictionary.

      cult
         /kʌlt/ Show Spelled[kuhlt] Show IPA
      noun
      1.
      a particular system of religious worship, especially with reference to its rites and ceremonies.
      2.
      an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, especially as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.
      3.
      the object of such devotion.
      4.
      a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc.
      5.
      Sociology. a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols.

      • http://bellsouth.net Oakley Mann

        Brain, can you say what a great country we live in? Think if you had been born in Nazi Germany, smitten shortly after birth due to the known defects of character you acknowedge with your writing.. Ah what a great country, you should do the Pledge of Allgiance at least twice a day as thanks for the country you were born in. And I said further belowon another posting you made, when your atheist behind hits hell, it will sound like the flat side of a boat paddle hitting the water, sspplllaattt!! Welcome to hell!! Put your feet up and stay awhile

        • Altaica

          What is wrong with that post of Brian’s? It’s the exact same words printed in the dictionary, he’s just quoting it. It’s the same ones I posted as well from dictionary.com. The dictionary definition of a cult is what is the accepted usage. Nothing wrong that I can see.

          • http://bellsouth.net Oakley Mann

            Altaica, A

          • http://bellsouth.net Oakley Mann

            Altaica, I try but sometimes normal is dull. The way I was raised is to be able to read from front to back, but some old pamphlets, etc are written from back to front. When I look at a catalog, I look from back to front, and when I look at posts normally I go from bottom to top, although sometimes the correct way from top to bottom. I responded originally to Brain’s post further down where I started, then hit this Post by Brian on my way up and responded by what he said below. Doesn’t seem right, does it?

  • Doyle

    Well I do believe that the Jesus Mr. Romney talks about, is not the Jesus of Christianity (see various articles on the believe of Temple Mormons), that is not the reason I do not support him. Personally I would rather see a conservative majority in the congressional branch and Mr. Obama in White House. Mr. Romney is a republican establishment choice and like President Bush a left of center Republican (RINO). The congress would be hard pressed to follow along with what I believe would be more “compassionate conservatism”, i.e. big government. With a conservative congress (and hopefully veto proof) we could show the difference in conservatism and the radically left which Pres. Obama is. As to the comments about Pres. Obama religious preference, look at what he has done, said to Muslim crowds, and his upbringing. One of his childhood friends said he was “a good Muslim”, I think that speaks volumes when you add his actions toward Israel and his speeches he gives in Muslim countries and his administration scrub of all anti-Muslim wording and stating the Muslim brotherhood was a “secular” organization. Mr. Romney has some troubling statements just as Mr. Cain does. The Federal Reserve is neither federal or reserve as it is owned by private banks and thru the actions of the Federal Reserve we are where we are at. Thru the early 1900’s our economy grew 100’s of fold with almost no inflation and then the federal reserve came on line (which is the 3rd central bank in the US) and today the dollar is worth about 3 cents compared to the dollar in the beginning of the 1900’s. I think that a full blown audit of both the federal reserve and the federal government would be a great idea, all school districts, counties, and cities have to have one by federal mandate why not them also.

  • Brian

    This assertion that a belief in god is necessary to prove that you believe in something greater than yourself is pure nonsense. As an atheist myself I believe there are things greater than me, including life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. A belief in god is not required to hold those things dear.

    And despite what many religious right wingers believe, being an atheist does not make one a card carrying Communist. The most morally grounded people I know are atheists and I’ve yet to meet an atheist who values socialism/communism over anything, especially liberty.

    Being a Mormon is no reason to vote against Romney. There are legitimate reasons including the fact that he is a Statist who thinks the solutions lie with government. Just how is that any different than Obama?

    • http://bellsouth.net Oakley Mann

      Dear Brian, You and your fellow atheists are in for a surprise when ya’ll bust hell wide open, your behind hitting hell will be like the flat side of a boat paddle hitting the water, sspplaaat!!! And I don’t proclaim to be Christian enough to give a damn

  • http://none RPaul or same ol’

    Religion has nothing to do with saving this country,the Constitution does. Now who supports that best? So painstakingly obvious is it not?

  • Rockman2

    The term “cult” is a theological one. It means a “heretical sect.” The early church had several councils and issued credal statements that defined what a Christian is like the “Apostle’s Creed, Nicean Creed, Ephesian Creed, and Chalcedonian Creed.” These creeds laid out that being a Christian means one must believe in one God, who is eternally one God and three persons, the deity of Jesus Christ, what the scriptures are, the virgin birth of Christ, Christ’s death and resurrection, salvation by faith alone in Him, and Christ’s eventual return and eternal life for those who believe in Christ with God as well as eternal judgment in hell for those who do not believe in Christ. Mormons claim to be Christians, but their beliefs do not fit with the various early church creeds or the modern creeds of the various denominations, and as such, they are not Christians. Mormons believe God was a man who became God, that Jesus was conceived naturally by God the Father and Mary, and that good enough men can become their own gods, that their wives spend eternity making spirit babies. Mormons also believe that there were ancient civilizations that fought great wars here in North America with horses, that Native Americans were descended from the 10 Lost tribes of Israel, which has been proven to be false on both counts, while the Bible has been proven to be extremely consistent with archaeological evidence in the Middle East. Since the Mormon church claims to be Christians, but their beliefs do not align with the historic creeds of the Church, they are not Christians. They are a heretical sect. They are a cult.

    If Mormons did not try to claim to be Christians such as the Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, Wiccan, etc., but be their own religion, then the cult moniker would not be applicable and Rev. Jefferies comments would not be true.

    Being a Christian is not only matter of being good, having good integrity, or being nice. The critical issue is does one believe that the eternal God loved fallen men so much, that the eternal Son of God became the man Jesus Christ, who died in place of them on the cross, that Jesus rose from the dead, and is that person trusting only in Him to save them from their sins and grant them an eternity in the presence of God. Clearly most Mormons, like most Christians, Jews, Buddhists, etc., are nice people who try to do good things. I do not doubt Mr. Romney is a nice man who tries to do good things, but his claims that he is a Christian are not true.

    Among the big problems with Mr. Romney’s candidacy is that even if he is the best candidate his religious positions DO create problems for some Evangelical Christians. Can one vote for someone who believes as the Mormons do? Do you want someone over you who is not a Christian? Since White Evangelicals do heavily vote Republican in large numbers, this could have a serious impact on the 2012 election. It would be better if the GOP chose someone who is religiously more neutral than Romney is so that we can be unified in 2012 and get rid of Obama.

    • Sandi

      Just for the record, we Mormons believe in the Bible…all of it. We believe that Christ was sent to this earth to die for our sins because God loves us. We believe that he was resurrected. We also believe that the only way back into God’s presence is through Christ and our willingness to live what he taught as well as our faith in him. As the wise Mormon wrote before me on here said, you can’t vote as to whether or not I’m a Christian. Only Christ can do that and I will do my best to live in a way that is pleasing to him. Part of what he taught was to not judge others. May he have mercy on all of those people out there that are judging the Mormons right now. And as far as the presidential race goes: May the best man win…the best man morally AND the best man to bring us out of the mess that we’re in. I don’t honestly know who that is and, unfortunately, it will only come down to two serious candidates in the end which means that we weren’t given much real choice in the first place.

      • Song

        Sandi, your comment is very thoughtful but will fall on the deaf ears of the “rigid idealogues” who profess to be true followers of “Christ” as THEY define him. Just like the Puritans, they will not listen to you or anyone else that does not share their own rigid viewpoints and will in fact continue to exercise intolerance and hate in the name of….Christ? Anyone else see the complete absurdity and hypocrisy in their arguments?

    • WPACE

      Rockman2,

      I could write a page or more about my experience with Evangelical Christians but instead I will sum it up by saying that many actions of Evangelical Christians towards others who do not believe as they do are the most un-christ like things I have every seen and experienced. Therefore, can it be said that Evangelicals are not Christians because of their un-christ like behavior? How did Christ treat those who did not believe in his teachings? He didn’t spew hatred as the Evangelicals do.

      You mentioned the Nicene Creed and other creeds that as you said “These creeds laid out that being a Christian means one must believe in one God, who is eternally one God and three persons…” Do you know the history of the Nicean Creed? I do, and from my study of it have learned that “The Roman Catholic Church created the canon of Christian scripture at the Council of Nicea, at the same time that they determined the doctrine of Trinity (through the assassination of a few of the voting bishops, by one vote).” (See http://www.tertullian.org/rpearse/nicaea.html) Many Catholic bishops did not agree with the doctrine of the Trinity. The doctrine of the Trinity is a man-made doctrine and to get it voted in required assassination of those who opposed it. Google Nicene Creed and study it for yourself.

      • Song

        Thank you WPACE…couldn’t agree more.

    • Jim

      Well said Rockman!

  • Rick

    Wow….there really is a lot of ignorance as well as piety and bigotry being shown here. Guess that’s why the mainstream media calls Republicans narrow minded and non-inclusive.

    I think the bible teaches….”by their fruits you shall know them.” I think Romney’s case is that he’s tried to do the will of the people. WHICH…would be a novel idea in Washington these days.

    I personally don’t think we need another rigid idealogue in the oval office. Principled yes….pragmatic yes….honest and forthright yes. I think in Romney’s case that he’s demonstrated both in business and in government these qualities.

    Of course everyone has their favorite candidate and tries to demonize the opposition….what I personally find distasteful are the personal attacks and labeling other Republicans as being NOT christian enough or NOT conservative enough or NOT embracing every one of my personal beliefs. Everyone feels more comfortable having someone who espouses their own personal values, and morals and supports the rule of law. Most reasonable people would agree that the OBAMA administration does neither of these.

    I’m saying here….’we’ (the loyal opposition)…the only alternative party needs to learn to open our minds and not FEAR those that don’t fit into some kind of pre-conceived mold. Those who would cast the first stone as if Evangelicalism beliefs are somehow more superior to those of Mormonism, need to take a cold hard look at the facts….NOT OPINION or BELIEF….but facts. We can go into the past of EVERY religion and find things there that are reprehensible….that’s easy. It’s also easy to label others as a cult when it serves our purposes of disparaging the competition. But I challenge anyone reading this to define a cult and explain to me why Evangelical beliefs aren’t a cult or why Christianity isn’t a cult. It’s a belief system….and a belief system, ANY belief system requires a degree of faith, as it can’t be proven or disproven beyond a shadow of a doubt. So those of you here that wish to throw stones…..take a good hard look at your motives and try to look outside of your comfort zone for the facts.

    I guess what I’m saying here is I tend to be in the same camp as Warren Buckley….”I’ll always register, I’ll always vote…I’ll always vote Republican…..I’ll always vote for the most conservative Republican candidate…..I’ll always vote for the most conservative Republican candidate that can be elected.”

    Romney may not fit into everyone’s religious mold….but I think his actions and his life are a reflection of the beliefs that he espouses. Those are the ‘fruits’ that I’m looking for….

    • Sandi

      Well said.

  • http://jdimlm.com/thomzzc/ ThomZ

    Amazingly what is major in the above writings and individual thinking; however, I don’t hear in my head from any of it the appreciation of the freedom afforded Americans to expressed their thoughts verbally or written. Enough is already stated about religious organizations. Interesting! What I can’t figure out since following Ron Paul for roughly 30 years maybe more; if Christians really want a truthful, honest person as President that they would not stick to Party Line political organization choices without using ones own freedom of ‘writing in’ a non-dramatic man that would call out Congress and Senate to their disdeed. I believe this is the most crucial Election to place us on a more honest course for another 50 to 100 years as leaders in the Free World.

  • Henry Ledbetter

    Harley Watkins is right on target with his commentary and all would do well to listen. There are many false prophets in our world today that persuade the gullible into following them. I suggest that we look to Jesus for his direction and is spiritual. “He that is spiritual judges all things and yet he himself is judged of no man.” A truly spiritual president would invoke God to bring back His Blessings to our land. “Blest is the nation whose God is the Lord.”

  • Spyder Dalton

    And the muslim isslamic faith is not a cult?

    • Angel Wannabe

      SD, any Religion that calls for killing people that aren’t like you (infidels) “IS” a Cult!

      • http://naver samurai

        That sounds very much like islam. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

  • bob wire

    Oh Boy! a can of worms!

  • http://earthtigernetworking.com Tim Singleton

    I am a Mormon; I am a Christian; I am not concerned with whether anyone thinks I am a Christian.

    I am only concerned with whether CHRIST considers me a Christian.

    Having said that, my SUPPORT is to Ron Paul → Who, by the way, is not a Mormon. Maybe all you folks who attack my faith as a Christian and as a Mormon could focus your effort on introducing Christ to the muslims, or do you perhaps consider it too politically incorrect and intolerant to say that muslims need to know Christ? Just curious.

    • dixiesuzan

      All assertions are not consider proofs. Assertions are claims requiring proof. Such is the nature of the world.

      • Song

        Oh just yours dixie…right? What arrogance.

  • Buddy

    Mr. Meyers is somewhat confusing. First he says that he eliminates candidates who practice a religion built upon hate and intolerance. Then, he says that he hopes that no candidate is disqualified because of religion.

    Evidently, it all depends upon the classifications.

  • alanjo55

    The evangelical, fundamental Christian church define a cult as any religious group which deviates from any of the key historical Christian doctrines (e.g. the divinity of Jesus, virgin birth, the Trinity, salvation by faith, not works, etc.). The implication is that the cult’s theology is invalid; they teach heresy. Under this definition, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (the Mormons), and many others are cults. Once a group teaches anti-Biblical truth the term ‘cult’ is assigned to them. To know which group can be labeled a cult, one must have a general understanding of Biblical knowledge.

  • Polski

    Religious choices are up to the individual. But consider how religion has influenced history. And then ask yourself, does God require a “middleman” (a religion) to contact you?

    • AJ

      polski,
      The answer is no! No middle man is needed.
      Christ taught that!

  • kat

    Wow, I have never heard so many people talk about the “Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints” with so much anger and untruths. As a life-long member, I truly know what the ‘Mormons’ believe, and not a single one of you have any clue. If I wanted to learn about the Baptist religion I would not read a book written by an ex Baptist or a Muslim to find what they believe. I will not be voting for a ‘Mormon’ this go around because I do not believe he is the best candidate for numerous reasons. Instead I will pray to God in the Name of Jesus Christ,to decide who can attempt to lead this country back to living the Constitution. I will vote for the person who is willing to do the hard things that can bring this country back into prosperity, and moral freedom.

    It is not up to any of you to decide whether or not I am a Christian, that is God’s judgement alone. We can not afford to allow this election to become religious, we must all stand together to defeat any evil person running for President. We cannot be divided by petty nuances and falsehoods that have nothing to do with what we are faced with in this STILL GREAT COUNTRY, that was built so that I could practice my religion without persecution. I read all of these past entries hoping that somebody would have the guts to say what needed to be said. Band together all of us that believe in God and the Constitution! Do not let any outside forces pull us away from what we really desire, to be ‘ONE NATION, UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE!’

    • Song

      kat, welcome to the “tolerant”, “bible-thumping” Christian who is above reproach because of their intimate relationship with Christ as they define him. I am well aware of the hatred of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and am not at all surprised by the hateful, ignorant comments by such good and tolerant “Christians” on this board. I have lived on the east coast. I have lived on the west coast and I have traveled abroad and met many of these extremely ignorant, judgmental “Christians” in person who delight in telling people that do not share their convictions that they are going to “hell”. Mighty Christian of them, don’t you think? What a laugh. And, I cannot over-emphasize IGNORANCE when it comes to this kind of Christian. I don’t think of them as Christian at all, rather Puritans would be a much better description.

      • dixiesuzan

        And welcome to a “in-tolerant”, “Bible-burning” non-Christian who is above reproach because of her intimate relationship with Charles Darwin, Chaos, Mother Earth and spontaneous generation of animated matter from inanimate matter as this individual defines it.

        • Song

          Well thank you dixiesuzan…you are a perfect illustration of the point I was making about the oh so “tolerant”, “loving” Christian. LOL…btw You have’nt a clue – none.

          • http://naver samurai

            She means you’re an atheist. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

      • J. Robert

        Wow, you seem to display more hate than anyone else here.

        Or do you miss your own hypocrisy????

        • Song

          I think it is safe to say that she definitely missed it…lol

  • dixiesuzan

    The US Constitution provides under Article VI: “…..no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.”

    In interpreting the US Constitution it is always useful to remember that many prominent people of the day were not at the Constitutional convention. George III was not there. These individuals did not know what was said, and what was precisely the convention members meaning in the document wording because the Constitutional coinvention minutes were secret. Thomas Jefferson was one of those who was not there. James Madison was there. Therefore, James Madison is more trustworthy than Thomas Jefferson, or George III on the Constitution.

    The US Constitution Article VI does NOT mean that religious people are excluded. It does mean the electorate may elect their own doom in a President if they so chose. They may elect a Hitler or a V. I. Lenin as President and live (if permitted) with the consequences of their actions. Un-electing Hitler or Lenin then becomes the problem. They may elect whomsoever they chose as President. It requires wisdom and discernment when doing so. The Biblical admonition seeems to be the best one. “By their deeds ye shall know them”, but a lotta folks go with “By their speeches, false promises, and expediantly given assertions ye do know them”.

    As a guide for consideration I recommend downloading a free copy of the PDF file “Decrees & constitution of Soviet Russia”. This particular version is undated but probably about 1918 or so since it includes many decrees dated December 1917. V.I. Lenin is pretty much running the Marxist revolution in Russia at the time. Site for download: http://www.archive.org/details/decreesconstitut00russiala

    Go through and read this thing and keep it in mind when you hear Progressive, liberal, educational, and religious ideas discussed. In 1918 Lenin & friends said what they beieved and what would be popular. They simply didn’t follow it all.

    A good place to read is “Declaration of the Rights of the Peoples of Russia” on page 30. Page 32 states “3. The abolition of any and all national and national-religiousprivileges and disabilities.” Page 33 is also interesting: “3. The transfer of all banks to the ownership of the Workers’and Peasants’ state is confirmed, this being one of the conditions of the emancipation of the laboring masses from the
    yoke of capital.
    4. With a view to the destruction of the parasitic classes of
    society and the organization of the national economy, universal
    labor service is established.”
    In the USSR you were required to work.
    “Abolition of Classes and Civil Rankst page 36 is most instructive for this discussion. “Church and State”. #9 being applicable to todays education debates.
    1.

    • independant thinker

      ” “…..no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.” ”

      That line applies to the Government and the legal requirements to be a candidate. It does not apply to the individual voter. The individual voter can use any criteria he/she wants to determine who to vote for.

  • http://google Sandra Henley

    This article has stirred up the hornets nest. I try to look at things objectively. First: You need to get past the stereotype that people are divided by color into various races. THERE IS ONLY ONE RACE AND THAT IS THE HUMAN RACE. I am a Christian and serious student of the scriptures. Jesus was a Jew. The first Christians were Jews. Then the gospel went out to the gentiles. As a Christian, I cannot mince words, compromise on or dilute the tenants of doctrinal Christianity. Many believe in Jesus but not all believe He is God the Son and the second person of the God head. Not all believe in His virgin birth, not all believe He lived a sinless life and died on the cross for all people. Not all believe He was resurrected from the grave and is alive at the right hand of the Father in heaven. When a person say’s they believe in god, you must ask which god. Satan is the god of this world and all the false, pagan gods that he has influenced upon mankind since the beginning. So we have modern day so called prophets like Joseph Smith, Mohammed, etc but if they pervert the gospel of Christ through some visitation or preach any other gospel unto you other than what is in the bible, let them be accursed. (Galatians 1:7-9) I will vote for the person who will hold up Godly values. It is all in God’s hands.

    • Song

      Very objective of you Sandra…you just “cursed” millions of people who believe differently from you. Again, if this is the kind of Christian you wish all people to be…I will respectfully defer! LOL

      • Jay

        Song, Sandra didn’t curse anyone, she merely spoke the truth! Of course, you are free to disagree, but don’t put words in her mouth. If you reread her statement, you will note that she cited Galatians 1:7-9.

        • Song

          You people are too funny. So now hide behind your bible? Is that what you are saying Jay. “I didn’t say it…the bible says it, but that doesn’t mean that I believe it…pr said it” something like that Jay?

          • Jay

            You are over-reaching Song, and that’s because your hatred for Christians is so deep in you that it doesn’t matter what they say, you will purposely misconstrue what they say just to justify, and keep your hatred for them alive! For someone who claims to despise intolerance and bigotry, you, yourself song, are full of both! Seems a bit hypocritical, don’t you think, an intolerant and bigoted person such as yourself, condemning, and criticizing others. How can you criticize and claim to be better, when you are that which you criticize? As to the comment that Sandra posted, again, she did not curse anyone. She merely pointed to the only One who has the right, to either bless, or curse. Get it now? There’s no hiding here Song. Are you hiding behind your hate?

          • Song

            hahahahahahahaha Jay, you don’t know a thing about me that is for sure. Let’s try this again…the only people preaching deviseness, hate, “hellfire” and “damnation” are the so called Christians! I find that very funny, and I will call you and anyone else on it anytime. If you think that is being intolerant, it sure doesn’t bother me. I would rather stand with freedom of religion and people that seek to do good then be among those of you who attempt to castigate a religion that you yourself don’t understand or agree with. It sure isn’t the Mormons doing all he preaching about being “accursed” and throwing scripture around in people’s faces now is it? Perry was a diplomat, the pastor that started the controversy is nothing more than an instigator…kind of like those Salem Witch Trials….

          • Jay

            Oh put a sock in it Song! It seems the Mormons are no different from evangelicals regarding the belief in hell and being cursed by God. The only difference is that, the Mormons are not up-front about it. Seems they are hoping no one finds out!

            Mormon doctrine on the afterlife (hell, in particular) is often misunderstood. Mormons believe interesting things about hell that most people would be surprised to learn.

            Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, sometimes called “Mormons,” have very distinctive beliefs concerning the afterlife.

            The word “hell” as used in the scriptures can mean one of two things: spirit prison or outer darkness.

            Spirit Prison
            In one sense, “hell” refers to spirit prison. Spirit prison is a temporary place for people who: Died without a knowledge of the gospel, Knew about the gospel but were not obedient. In spirit prison, people will have a chance to repent and be cleansed of their sins through Christ’s Atonement. They will then be resurrected to a kingdom of heaven. Those who reject Christ’s Atonement and choose not to repent will have to suffer for their own sins before being resurrected to the lowest kingdom of heaven.

            Outer Darkness
            In another sense, “hell” refers to outer darkness. This is the permanent home of Satan and those who have committed the unpardonable sin (see below). Rather than actual physical torment, The Book of Mormon explains that “their torment is as a lake of fire and brimstone” [2 Nephi 9:17, emphasis added].

            That is, the flame of their conscience consumes them. Punishment in outer darkness is believed to be the personal anguish caused by permanent separation from God, Christ, and the Holy Ghost. Latter-day prophet Joseph Smith explained that “a man is his own tormentor and his own condemner” in outer darkness.

            The Unpardonable Sin

            Matthew 12:32 says that “whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.” These are the only people who will go to outer darkness. The unpardonable sin of denying the Holy Ghost can only be committed by those who have become members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, received the Holy Ghost, gained a perfect knowledge of the gospel, and then rejected it.

            As Joseph Smith explained, “He has got to say that the sun does not shine while he sees it; he has got to deny Jesus Christ when the heavens have been opened unto him, and to deny the plan of salvation with his eyes open to the truth of it.” Relatively few people commit the unpardonable sin.

            Why Do People Go to Hell?

            Latter-day Saints believe a loving father would never want to send His children to outer darkness. When individuals choose to reject God and his Spirit, it pains Him but He respects their agency.

            In the words of the LDS hymn Know This, That Every Soul Is Free, “God will force no man to heav’n.” People who have rejected heavenly laws would feel extremely uncomfortable in the presence of God, even though living without Him would likewise be painful.

            According to Mormons Song, you’re in danger of going to hell and being cursed forever!

          • http://naver samurai

            SSDD from Song. Thes are overused arguements, so come up with something new. Remember your kind was responsible for 6 million Jews and 6 million others being killed in concentration camps. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

            P.S. You and your ilk is what is wrong with this country. Maybe you all should leave.

          • Jay

            Samurai, according to the Mormon faith, the only one’s in danger of spending time in hell for eternity, interestingly enough, are ex-Mormons! Hmm, that should keep the membership in-line, and also keep them from straying. Nothing like fear of spending eternity in hell for exiting the organization, to keep one faithful to the organization! Of course, the same could be said of other, supposedly, Christian organizations/denominations! When it comes to religion, one must tread carefully!

          • Song

            Jay and Samurai: This is not an article on doctrine. This is an article about a man who is an instigator and obviously has contempt for his fellow Americans that aren’t in “lock-stop” with his religious fundamentalist beliefs.

            He is no different than the pastor(s) that called for the inquistions and murder of his fellowmen by casting doubt upon them as “witches”. You can throw scripture around all day and try to bring up Mormon doctrine or others religious doctrines like Altaica’s (that you absoutley nothing about!) but it doesn’t change the fact that this pastor knowingly and with forethought and malice sought to malign another faith that does not agree with his.

            Perry did the absolutely smart thing in denouncing the pastor’s claims. I don’t blame Perry for one second to want to disassociate himself with the likes of fundamentalist, rigid ideologue, ignorant, narrow minded Christian that has been illustrated on this blog!

          • Jay

            The Prophet Brigham Young’s racist statements about blacks:

            “You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind. The first man that committed the odious crime of killing one of his brethren will be cursed the longest of any one of the children of Adam. Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would have put a termination to that line of human beings. This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin. Trace mankind down to after the flood, and then another curse is pronounced upon the same race — that they should be the “servant of servants;” and they will be, until that curse is removed.” – Brigham Young, President and second ‘Prophet’ of the Mormon Church, 1844-1877 – Quotation from Journal of Discourses

            “Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God is death on the spot. This will always be so.” – Brigham Young, President and second ‘Prophet’ of the Mormon Church, 1863, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 10, p. 110.

            Song, this is the religious culture that Romney comes out of. Do you really want a president that supports and believes that blacks are an inferior race?

          • http://naver samurai

            Well Jay, your post makes them sound like KKK or nazis. I’m even going to go there. Good post. Keep up the good fight, fellow patriot! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

      • http://naver samurai

        Watch what you say about Christians and Christianity Song. This Christian took schrapnel twice for you in Iraq. Why don’t you read the source she has posted and stop acting like an arse. It is true that there are many religions in America, but ours is the true faith. No doubts about it. If you don’t believe me, go to your or the closet pastor and ask him. You may become awakened to what you may learn. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

        • Song

          I don’t have a pastor Samurai and after this little tete-a-tete by all you so called “good” Christians condemning anyone who doesn’t agree with you to hell, I don’t want a pastor, thank you very much!

    • dixiesuzan

      Christianity by Biblical revelation as always understood that all of todays human beings are descended from a male and female prototype created by God. This is directly incorporated in to the Fundamentals of Western Christiandom and its cultures as well as Eastern Christiandom. With the rise of Atheistic French Philosophes this doctrine began to be challenged. During the French Revolution the doctrine was openly challenged. After the defeat of Napoleon the doctrine was being challenged in some universities. The bomb-shell book of the day became “Arthur Gobineau 1856 -The moral & intellectual diversity of races” which repudiate that doctrine.
      See: http://www.archive.org/details/moralintellectua00gobi

      All people are not of the same race was the assertion. This book was being repreinted clear into the 20th century with a title change.
      “Arthur Gobineau 1915 (Putnam publisher USA) – The inequality of human races” See: http://www.archive.org/details/inequalityhuman00gobigoog

      Different race come from different areas but have the capacity to inter-breed. This became a popular atheistic point of view into the 20th century. Charles Darwins 1859 “Origin of Species” echoes that view. The book had a subtitle which reflected it favorably. The full title is “The Origin of Species by means of Natural Selection or the preservation of favored races in the struggle for life”.

      Out of this view comes the Eugenics movement of race improvement and elimination of the un-fit. The atheist folks have been back tracking ever since Adolf Hitler.

      • http://naver samurai

        Well said and to the point. I hope to keep seeing you on this site. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

    • OB1

      Thanks. Very well written.

      • http://naver samurai

        I second that motion. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

  • Jim

    Mr. Meyers:
    You are wrong Sir! Here is why; you are comparing “apples and oranges”. Jews & Islamist’s are not saying they are Christian, but Mormons are. The specific Christian definition of a cult is “a religious group that denies one or more of the fundamentals of biblical truth.” In simpler terms, a cult is a group that teaches something that will cause a person to remain unsaved if he/she believes it. As distinct from a religion, a cult is a group that claims to be part of the religion, yet denies essential truth(s) of that religion. A Christian cult is a group that denies one or more of the fundamental truths of Christianity, while still claiming to be Christian. Here are only some of the things Mormons believe that are NOT Christian and all of which are fundamentally OPPOSED to biblical Christianity:
    1. The plurality of Gods (Mormon Doctrine pp. 576, 577)

    2. The baptism for the dead done in holy temples (Mormon Doctrine pp. 72,73)

    3. Celestial marriage which no unworthy member or outsider can attend (Mormon Doctrine pp. 117, 118)

    4. Polygamy needed to become a God (Journal of Discourse, Vol. II p. 269)

    5. Blacks were cursed with a dark skin (Mormon Doctrine p. 109)

    6. You can become a God if you are worthy; celestial marriage required (Mormon Doctrine p. 118)

    7. We were all pre-existent spirits (Mormon Doctrine p. 589)

    8. God has a body of flesh and bones (Mormon Doctrine p. 289)

    9. We have a Heavenly Mother as well as a Heavenly Father (Mormon Doctrine p. 516)

    10. There are three levels of heaven. To go to the highest kingdom, you must be a Mormon. Honorable persons go to the Terrestrial kingdom. The dishonest, liars, sorcerers, adulterers and whoremongers go to the Telestial kingdom . (Mormon Doctrine pp. 420, 421)

    11. God and his wife achieved a celestial marriage (Celestial Marriage Manual p. 1)

    12. Heavenly Father died just like Jesus (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith p. 346)

    13. God was once just like us and progressed to godhood (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith p. 345)

    14. God has a father and His Father has a Father, etc. (Mormon Doctrine p. 322)

    15. Jesus and Lucifer are spirit brothers (Mormon Doctrine p. 192)

    16. Jesus and Lucifer each had a plan to people the earth. Jesus’ plan was chosen and caused Lucifer to rebel and he and the angels that followed him were cast out of heaven. (Mormon Doctrine p. 193)

    17. God lives near a star called Kolob (Mormon Doctrine p. 428)

    18. Temple endowments are so sacred that you must be worthy to enter (Mormon Doctrine pp. 619, 620)

    19. Jesus was not able to keep his church together (History of the Church Vol. 6 pp. 408, 409)

    20. In the future, you will need Joseph Smith’s consent in order to enter the celestial kingdom (Journal of Discourse Vol. 7 p.289)

    21. Not everything you’ll need to know concerning salvation will be recorded in the Bible but there will be additional scriptures (Mormon Doctrine p. 83)

    • Song

      Jim this is not an article about doctrine, it is an article asking whether the faith of a candidate is relevant. You sound like a little child throwing a tantrum “but they can’t be a Christian mommy!” “They can’t be! They aren’t like us! wawawawawa!” You and all the other professed “Christians” on this board do yourselves no favors.

      • Jim

        Song, please re-read the article. Mr. Myers whole point was that Perry’s pastor was wrong in stating that Mormonism is a cult. Then he stated “To his credit, Perry, an evangelical Christian, rebuffed Jeffress’ comments and said he does not believe the Mormon faith is a cult”. My point was and is that Mormonism IS a cult, Perry’s pastor is correct, and Perry is wrong to deny it and Meyers is wrong to try to approve it as well.

        • Song

          I know what your point is Jim and I know what the article is about and I’m glad that Perry is a rational man. Just because YOU think Mormonism is a cult doesn’t make it so and Perry was wise in saying the same.

          • Jim

            Song:
            How much proof do you need to see that Mormonism is a cult? Check out this website: http://www.exmormonsforjesus.org/
            It is specifically for Mormons who think they are Christians. I am concerned about them and worry about them as they are deceived people who will be going to hell. They are betting their eternal future on a ‘religion’ instead of a relationship with Jesus Christ.
            I now doubt that Perry is a true Christian, on the order of a man who goes into a garage and calls himself a car.

          • Song

            How about you worry about yourself Jim.

          • OB1

            Mormons, LDS deny the Holy Trinity, the 3 in 1 God. Now I’ll post one last Old Testament Psalm for you or any one on this vivacious and much needed conversion (remember I told you, Jesus was a Jew, man born of a virgin mother, NOT what the Mormon Church teaches! I really just said it, God the spirit born as a Man! Therein lies the problem of today’s discussion! Also remember this was witten hundreds of years before the birth of Christ):

            Isaiah 53

            King James Version (KJV)

            Isaiah 53

            1Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?

            2For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

            3He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

            4Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

            5But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

            6All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

            7He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

            8He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

            9And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

            10Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

            11He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

            12Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

          • Jay

            Jim, don’t you get it yet? Song is a Mormon!

      • bob wire

        a cult is a group that teaches something that will cause a person to remain unsaved if he/she believes it.

        Unsaved? You are not talking economics? This is where I part with Judeao christian beliefs and replace them with eastern religions. Not accepting the concept of being born in sin in any way form or fashion. You are born of spirit and return to spirit. The physical is not immoral it’s a manifestation of the spirit. I do not accept atonement as mandatory for everyone, some might need it, some don’t. Any notions of a death sacrifice of anything as being somehow holy is totally absurd.

  • J. Robert

    John, you always write great stuff. Some good points here. However, you are clearly wrong here. The founding fathers explicitly wrote that we should “prefer Christian leaders” (and most likely what Jefferson was reacting to in your quote). The reason is simple: **presuppositions have consequences**. We are talking MORE than just about the *mechanics* of being a president. Your analogy with the basketball or debate team leaders, or Brenda at CBC, is very flawed precisely because you weren’t dealing with presuppositions about virtually everything. I, too, would vote for Steve or Lem, or Brenda in those situations, but those votes are for positions fundamentally and – if I may – ontologically different.

    I still may HAVE to vote for Romney given the horrible alternative, but that is another discussion. And Mormonism IS indeed a cult, and a ridiculous one at that, even if the adherents are generally nice people.

  • chuckb

    how can people say they don’t consider religion as their assessment of any candidate. i’ll bet if a muslim was running for the presidency their prejudice may effect their consideration. i would be the first to speak out against a muslim running for the office. the same applies to the jewish faith or buddhist.
    i would be hard pressed to vote for anyone who was not a christian even though i have no connection to any christian church. i believe in the basic principal of morality taught by jesus christ, i have no idea if jesus christ was the supreme god or the greatest teacher who ever lived, i accept his word. thereby i am prejudiced against any religion that doesn’t relate to christianity.
    man has created many off spring religions from the christian faith starting with the roman catholic church and at the same time created animosity between their beliefs. i try to avoid the entanglements of man made religion and what i believe christ taught. so in a way i do judge a man for what he believes, right or wrong.

  • FreedomFighter

    America is falling apart riddled with corruption, government infiltrated with socialist/communist operatives and anti-American politicians bought and paid for by New World Order factions. The Federal Reserve and its cartel of banks are robbing the world to the point of collapse, and oh so many know it now. Our current president, weak, ineffectual, divisive, a traitor the constitution, and the American people, hell bent on presiding over our decent into crony capitalism, totalitarian socialism, fascism and eventually communism. In so doing the world falls into a dark pit resembling hell on earth.
    I put my faith in no man, only god. That aside, the next president, not including Obama, has the opportunity to be one of, if not, the most famous president of the century. He or she as a leader need only embrace our constitution to restore America.
    What does that mean?
    Examples would be: Elimination of the Federal Reserve, Top to bottom rewrite if not elimination of the current tax code, wholesale elimination of many government departments: Energy, Education and EPA to name a few to reduce size and power of government in our lives.
    Slam shut our borders and allow the current illegal immigrants to be vetted, removed or Americanized, this will end the destabilization of national identity currently in play.
    Get government out of the way of business. Do so without letting them give into greed, screwing the public.
    Make our corporate tax rate the 2nd lowest in the world, money from all over the world will pour into the United States creating jobs and untold opportunity.
    Revise our trade agreements to favor America and punish with tariffs countries like China that cheat in the global markets.
    Develop and exploit our American energy resources to the fullest and get off eastern oil.
    Make it illegal for socialist, fascists and communist to hold political office, a teaching position, legal system/ judge position, because they advocate the overthrow of the USA.
    Mandate English as the official language, confusion of language breeds division.

    The next president has an historic opportunity to become the most famous man or woman in American History if they return the US to the limits of the constitution, the resulting economic boom alone will guarantee a place in history, a return to the constitution will make them an American legend.

    Thought I had posted this once already, but I dont see it, so here goes again

    Laus Deo
    Semper Fi

    • Bob from SoCal

      Sounds like good policy to me Freedom Fighter. Id vote for ya!

      • OB1

        Me too.

        • http://naver samurai

          Me three! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

    • AJ

      FreedomFighter,
      Yes right on. You are right on the “Mark”.

  • Bob from SoCal

    For any one out there that would like to get a good reference to cults, I recommend “The Kingdom of the Cults” by Dr. Walter Martin. It is important that any person considering any religion should diligently study the doctrines that that they are being taught to see if they are true. You better make sure you are right, because your eternity is at stake.

  • Wade Spears

    You are wrong, I believe that history will show that Nixon was a good
    president, secondly, Who cares about Romney’s religion? The smartest and most qualified man in this group is Newt Gingrich.

  • Ron PArks

    Cult can be defined as:
    A. A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader.
    B. The followers of such a religion or sect.
    (Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/cult#ixzz1bFtkCkzm)

    The authoritarian, charismatic leader would be Joseph Smith who got a a revelation from an Angel that caused extreme departure from Christianity. For example the principal of eternal progression states that God was once like we are and that one day we can all be gods of own own planets. How about the polygamy? While it is not openly practiced or supported today, it is very hard to prosecute in areas with large Mormon populations. Look at Gal 1:8 and remember that this different gospel was given to by the angel Maroni. Just read about Mormonism and see if it doesn’t fit the definition above. The strategy of Mormonism today is to try to appear as main line Christian as they can on the outside. This is intentional deception.

    • Song

      Ah, yes Ron…those insidious Mormons are out to get all of you aren’t they! A cult of 14 million members that believe first and foremost in the value and the strength of the family, responsibility, morality, virtue and charity and provide for the homeless, have the best welfare program in the world, provide countless aide to foreign nations and don’t get paid for the service they perform for their church or people worldwide. Insidious! The horrors! I can’t imagine much worse. *shaking head*

      • Bob from SoCal

        Hello Song
        You stated “The horrors! I can’t imagine much worse. *shaking head*”. How about Hell is that much worse. The followers of the Mormon cult are being deceived. If these people believe what they are being taught they will not make it to heaven.

        • Karolyn

          Bob – So in your belief even the lost tribes in South America that have never been exposed to Christianity will go to hell when they die. And, yes, there are still tribes that have not yet been visited by “civilization.” How can one say to another that their belief is wrong? It is impossible!

          • bob wire

            You will never reach him Karolyn ~ I came from a family of them. Their mind is set in concrete and will not budge. It is impossible.

          • http://naver samurai

            As I have posted to you before that many missionaries have gone into the Amazon and other areas there. Ergo, they have the ability to hear the Gospel and know the Truth. This would help them get into heaven. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Karolyn

            Samurai – You need to keep up with current events. There are still Indians living in the jungles of South America who have not been reached by civilization. I believe it was last year when one group was filmed by a helicopter crew; however they did not land; and those Indians will not be disturbed according to the government of that country. Those people may never be reached; so I guess they are all going to hell for being the beings that God made them according to your interpretation of God’s word.

          • http://naver samurai

            Bzzzzz wrong again Karolyn. They will not go to hades because of how God created them, but because they don’t believe in God and don’t have Jesus as their personal savior. Ergo, you are wrong again. Stop being a bleeding heart, it is sickening. You tend to remind me of Jane Fonda. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • libertytrain

            Samurai – on that one I wish you would think about what you wrote. Really. I mean you no disrespect…

          • http://naver samurai

            If I have made a mistake Libertytrain, then I apologize. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

        • Song

          LMAO SoCalBob. The only thing that you and Jim and OB1 et al., are accomplishing on this board is to show how extremely narrow minded and intolerant some Christians are. No wonder so many people view the Christian Right as Radical. Good Grief! At least Perry showed some wisdom and genuine acceptance of his fellow man with HIS comments.

          • bob wire

            Don’t allow Perry’s Jesusing up to impress you Song.

          • http://naver samurai

            So what are you? An atheist and an enemy of God? FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

  • Ray

    You can call a pig anything you want but it still a pig. Whether or not you or I understand the tenets of Mormonism or not does not change the fact that there are glaring differences between Christianty and Mormonism. Probably the biggest difference is the mormon belief that Jesus Christ and satan are brothers. A persons personal beliefs dictate how they approach governing, how they percieve their role as a leader and who they give their allegience too. Walter Martin wrote a complete book on the differences, not just on Mormonism but on many other religious cults.

  • Alex

    The Catholic Church is a cult that encourages pedophilia. Through nearly two millennia they have systematically abused children without repercussion. There is no way in Hell that God or the Gods approves of the Catholic Church. It is a very dangerous CULT.

    You can see here that one man’s religion is another man’s cult. When you get down to it, ALL religions are cults. Anytime a human being tells you what God wants from you, RUN!! Human beings tell other human beings what it is that God wants in order, and only in order, to gain access to your power and your money, which you cede to religion out of fear. Do NOT fear God or the Gods—they LOVE you, and they do NOT need ANY of your money!

    • Jay

      This is true Alex, and i would go so far as to say that, the Roman Catholic church is in essence a tyrannical, dictatorial, and oppressive religious-cult! Nothing, btw, has changed with respect to this organization, except to say, that like all other religious cults that are thriving today, the roman catholic church keeps their cards, very close to their vests!

  • S.C. Murf

    You all need to understand that satan, compared to us, is a higher power. So just praying to a higher power can get you into very big trouble. You need to call on Jesus of Nazareth the Christ and remember getting down on your knees puts you in good standing with God our Father. Jesus said that if I allowed you to see the spiritual warfare that is taking place around us that it would drive one instantly insane because of the ugliness and evilness.

    up the hill
    airborne

  • R Ferguson

    As a Christian, I am very upset that a pastor (Jeffress) would call the Mormon religion a cult. Although I may not agree with everything in the Mormon religion, I also do not agree with everything in the Christian religion. Like ANY Christian calling the Mormon religion “A CULT”. If winning an election has to sink that far down, then we as Christians need to rethink our dedication to God. My Bible tells me to “Judge not least yea be judged”. Maybe Pastor Jeffress and Gov. Perry should pick up their Bible and read it. May God bless and forgive us all for our unforgiving, judgmental ways.

    • Miriam Feldstein Case

      Thank you for your comment. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (not the Mormon church) is definitely Christian. Only disgruntled former members, and those who don’t know about the church, would say otherwise.

  • Sivispace

    Except for Satanists, I don’t care if our President is a Christian or a Jew, Catholic or Protestant. I would oppose a Muslim at this point because Islam does not respect the Establishment Clause. But as long as the candidate keeps his or her beliefs and his or her governing separate, I don’t care what his or her beliefs are.

  • LindyMaeUSA

    Old Henry: “Be careful with doing that. It oculd negate your entire ballot.”

    Thanks for the “heads up” Patriot!

    I’ll definitely check into that “ineligible” possibility since I’m a “transplant” where I’m living now, not a home owner. I definitely don’t want my one precious vote swung over to Obama because of some voting non-compliance ruling!”

  • DaveW

    To return to the point of the original post – Mr. Myers, Being baptized
    a protestant no more makes you a Christian than being born in a garage
    would have made you an automobile. The ONLY thing which will make a person a Christian is a personal faith in Jesus Christ and the belief
    that He died in your place, as a sacrifice for your sins.

  • 45caliber

    A religion is something our Founding Fathers exempted from government interferance. But, according to the government, they have the right to interfer in any cult – and as one government official stated, they are the ones who decides what is a cult and what is a religion.

  • Jay

    Originally, in the eighteenth century, the goal of the Illuminati had been to separate religion from the state, to replace it with a rule of their own.

    Through the widespread propaganda of the eighteenth century, they discredited Christianity as conflicting with the findings of science, and defined the Christian Church as an organization rife with corruption and greed. While it is certainly true that the Church was fraught with abuse, the citizens of the West were told to throw the proverbial baby out with the bathwater, for it was not its moral teachings, or the common worshipper, that were inherently corrupt, but the upper echelons of its politically minded hierarchy.

    Paradoxically, the secularism of the Illuminati is based not on atheism, but on ancient occult teachings.

    To the upper levels of the Illuminati, it was Lucifer who “liberated” man, showing him the truth that there is no truth. Rather, all morality is mere convention, invented by the dull masses. To them, there is only Will, and therefore, man triumphs by overcoming all apprehension, otherwise regarded as morality, that prevents him from achieving what he desires. Or, the “ends justify the means”.

    The program of the Illuminati, beginning in the eighteenth century, has been to disparage all religion as superstition, and the enemy of “Liberty”, that is, the freedom to do whatever they will.

    To inculcate the veneration of such a principle in the minds of the gullible masses of the West, history has been rewritten to present modern secular states as the culmination of centuries of progress towards “Liberty”, which is upheld as the fundamental characteristic defining the Western superiority over the East, where “despotism” supposedly perpetually reigns.

    Throughout “Western” history, we are taught, from Greece, to the Roman Empire, the Renaissance, and finally the Enlightenment, European thinkers have been progressively distancing themselves from “superstition”, or religion. The culmination of this supposed progress were the French and American Revolutions, and their implementation of secular rule, seen as the triumph of “Liberty”.

    In reality, these revolutions were coup d’etats effected through the machinations of the Illuminati. And, the first priority of the Illuminati, following the revolutions, as propounded by its prominent members, like the Marquis de Condorcet in France, Johann Fichte in Germany, and Thomas Jefferson in America, was the establishment of compulsory education.

    The first to articulate the need to interpret history as the progress of “Liberty” was Georg Hegel, German professor and member of the Illuminati. Based on Kabbalah, Hegel proposed that history was the unfolding of an idea, as God coming to know himself. To Hegel, it is man who becomes God, as Western civilization overcomes superstition, by progressively advancing towards the implementation of “Liberty.”

    However, it was not until World War I that Hegel’s mythology of Western civilization was fully established.

    America, to justify its entry into the War, presented itself and the Allied Powers as, not disparate nation-states, but members of a single “Western” civilization, and capitalized on the notion of “Liberty” and “Freedom”, to cloak its imperial strategies in high ideals.

    Known as General Education, or the Western Civ. Course, the Hegelian interpretation of history was then imposed on the American university system. The mission was accomplished through the influence of two Illuminati front organizations, boards of trustees acting as benefactors of the educational system, the General Board of Education (GEB) chartered by the John D. Rockefeller, and the Carnegie Foundation for the Advancement of Teaching (CFAT).

    As revealed by William H. McIlhany, in The Tax-Exempt Foundations, from minutes of their meetings, these foundations asked themselves the following: “is there any means known to man more effective than war, assuming you wish to alter the life of an entire people?” They could not find one, and so helped to precipitate WWI. Following the Great War, however, recognizing the need to maintain the control of the “diplomatic machinery” of the United States they had achieved, the foundations determined that “they must control education”.

    Together, as William McIlhany described, the Rockefeller and Carnegie foundations “decided the key to it is the teaching of American history and they must change that. So they then approached the most prominent of what we might call American historians at that time with the idea of getting them to alter the manner in which they presented the subject.”

    Through their influence, the entire American educational system was coordinated to serve a centralized command. Control of this system would be two-pronged, dividing study into pure and social sciences. The pure or applied sciences were to serve the emerging Military-Industrial-Complex, while the social sciences, like psychology, sociology, and anthropology, were designed to study the behaviour of human beings, towards achieving means of controlling or modifying that behaviour.

    Lastly, the remaining fields, like history of political science, were to inculcate a proper “interpretation” of history. Because, according to the boards’ directives, “history, properly studied or taught, is constantly reminding the individual of the larger life of the community… This common life and the ideals which guide it have been built up through the sacrifice of individuals in the past, and it is only by such sacrifices in the present that this generation can do its part in the continuing life of the local community, the State, and the Nation.”

    In Universities and the Capitalist State, Clyde Barrow commented that: The full-scale rewriting of history under state supervision not only facilitated a short-term justification of American participation in the war, but also helped to institutionalize a much broader and more permanent ideological conception of the United States in the social sciences and humanities.

    The first recommendations to educators, during WWI, were careful to warn them that using outright lies or false information was a “mistaken view of patriotic duty”, that was likely to be counterproductive in the long run. These recommendations went on to provide detailed suggestions on what to teach, and how to teach history “properly”. They urged teachers to stress the difference between Germany on the one hand, and France, Britain, and the United Sates on the other, as a conflict originating in the struggle between despotism and democracy. This was a continuation of the same revolutionary struggle for Liberty, which America had initiated in the American Revolution. If it had been America’s destiny to perfect democracy, it was now America’s responsibility to defend democracy wherever it was threatened and bring it to the rest of the world.

    This myth of America’s role in the preservation of “democracy” and its struggle against “depostism”, is again being resorted to, towards the build up to World War III, or the so-called War on Terror. Ultimately, according to Francis Fukuyama, in deliberate reference to Hegel, we are at the “End of History”. That is, we have achieved the pinnacle of human intellectual progress. We cannot advance further, and Western style “liberal democracy” is the final product. However, one bastion of medievalism is preventing our final step forward: “militant” Islam.

    Therefore, according to Samuel Huntington, as first published in Foreign Affairs of the Council on Foreign Relations, a front group of the secretive and elusive Illuminati, the West is headed for an inevitable confrontation with Islam, or a Clash of Civilizations.

    Author-David Livingston

    • OB1

      Good study. Very well written. Shall review and look in to. Seems to match what I formerly learned from Western Civ.

    • http://naver samurai

      Well said. This is coming from not just a fellow patriot and veteran, but I’m also an official historian. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

    • http://bellsouth.net Oakley Mann

      Jay, I should give credit where credit is due. After reading many of your posts, you are one outstanding writer and debater, and would I be redundent if I say also an above average theoretician? This post is meant as a compliment, even if I don’t agree with half you write.

      • Song

        Most of what Jay posts is copy and past Oakley Mann.

        • Song

          paste*

  • http://slayerwulfe slayerwulfe

    When it come’s to Mormons I like to leave out the second m.

    • Karolyn

      Wow, that’s an intelligent remark!

      • Raggs

        Oh karo my favorite gurl to pick on…
        But let’s not get too attached huh…

      • libertytrain

        I agree with you on that one…. :)

        • libertytrain

          That was for Karolyn of course.

      • bob wire

        “Wow, that’s an intelligent remark!”

        He is one of those that enjoys make sport of words, labels and letters with a derogatory twist.

        Huge Vanna White fan no doubt! ~ Give me an “M”

        • libertytrain

          good one bob -

    • Miriam Feldstein Case

      That is a very sad, and ignorant, comment.

  • Donald

    Excellent Points!

  • CJM

    Last I heard, CAIN was leading the pack, so why all the hype about Romney being the ‘frontrunner’? As far as getting my vote, Romney can kiss it goodbye–he dearly loves his romneycare package that he saddled his MA constituents with and he can deny he had anything to do with it. Truth is: he sponsored the bill and did NOT VETO THE ENTIRE BILL if he vetoed anything about it. Furthermore, he has since made statements that he likes the romneycare package, which is the forerunner of obamycare. Isn’t it a bit hypocritical to claim you will repeal obamacare, yet refuse to do the same for romneycare? Thanks, but no thanks—I wouldn’t vote Romney in to be the dogcatcher.

    • simian pete

      Elect Cain and we all get free PIZZA !!!!

      Elect Romney and we all get free Mormon underwear !!!

      Elect Perry and we all get … we all get crapped on !!!

      Elect Paul and we all get … our food stamps, welfare and entitlements taken away !!

      Tough decisions !!!

      If it’s going to be a cold winter (and you fear the Cylons) … vote for Romney.

      If you prefer to eat like the Teenage Mutant Turtles … vote for Cain !!!

      If you are ANAL RETENTIVE A–HOLE vote for Perry !!!

      If you need to lose some weight TODAY and want a job TOMORROW, vote for Paul !!

      • Song

        Did it take you all day to come up with that garbage simian?

  • http://www.gailklightfoot.com gail lightfoot

    Front runner? According to whom? Not me. None of the meida darlings will ever get my vote.

  • Federalist-Republican

    To my understanding, there are a “Heinz 57″ variety of Mormons, as there are every other denominaiton of Christian, so I cannot determine much about Governor Romney simply by the title “Mormon”. Is religion important? It definitely was to the Founders, and as President John Adams said, “Our Constitution is made solely for a moral and religious people; it is wholly inadequate to the government of any other”. I am certain, by studying the Holy Scriptures for many years, that President Adams was correct then, and remains so now. However, the modern secular culture which has been propagated by Progressives gradually over the past 115 years has brought America to the point of historical and spiritual illiteracy, to the point that wrong has been declared right, and right, wrong. It threatens the very fabric of our Nation, for without the foundation, the house must fall.

    If a man does not believe that “all men are Created equal, and are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights”, then that man is not fit for office, for this phrase is the summation of American Exceptionalism – that is, GOD Himself made an exception amoung men and nations in establishing the United States. Chief Justice John Jay feared the worst for America should she ever aboandon the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. I agree with Justice Jay.

    For any candidate for any office to be found worthy of my vote, that candidate must be saved by grace through faith in the Blood of Jesus Christ; elsewise, America had as well to join the French. President Washington said, “it is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible”.

    Don’t misunderstand me, I do not withhold support from Governor Romney because he is a Mormon, for I cannot tell from the name precisely what that means; rather, I cannot vote for him because he has Progressive tenents, which are contrary to the Federal Republican system of government taken from the Exodus, the Law, and the New Testiment. There is far too much at stake to risk it upon the Governor.

    • Song

      well written Federalist-Republican

  • Raggs

    Religion or not… oblama is a toasted duck in 2012.
    This whole thing about religion this and religion that is a distraction, it is in the power of God to decide not us.

    • OB1

      Man makes his plans, but God directs his steps. Proverbs

  • Mad Max

    Memo to America: Stop waiting for Democrats and Republicans to save you. It’s bad for your health and your future. Can’t you tell?

    “WAKE UP PEOPLE!”
    Read “Common Sense 3.1” at ( http://www.revolution2.osixs.org )

  • jopa

    When I took the second M out of Mormon, I thought of slayerwulfe!!

    • libertytrain

      jopa, I think you are correct on that one.

  • simian pete

    Everyone here seems so PC about future President Mitt “MORMON” Romney ! Listen to me now, and realize I’m right later ! You people don’t deserve a true CHRISTIAN PRESIDENT !! WE here have elected idiots to rule us, but then we don’t take responsibility for what happens !!!!!

    SO here we have, fresh from the star system KOLOB, Mr. Romney … complete with his protective Mormom UNDERWEAR !!!! If you all believe in LIBERTY and FREEDOM why don’t we just get him elected ! We could bring back POLYGAMY ! Just like in Utah back in 19th century !!!! SOme practice it today !!!

    HECK ! I always tell my wife we should CONVERT to Mormomism, nothing like having a few wives – I won’t have to work – and the only responsibility I would have would be at bedtime ….

    • Jay

      That’s awfully tempting simian, i have been thinking lately i’d like to switch from boxers to the magical underwear! LOL…

  • bob wire

    I tried to post early this morning and had problems getting in as you opened up this family size can of worms.

    Did you find the answer that you was looking for Mr Myer?

    I thought most of the posting indicative of stanch born again Christians that accept evangelical activities very seriously as a mandate from the all mighty Himself that demands the “Word” by spread if they must spoon feed it or shove it down your throat. That there is no other, but the Trinity, Father, Son & Holy Ghost.

    I would think Mitt would be poorly received by this crowd but I also believe Mitt Rommey may well be the next GOP candidate for the oval office and people will get over it, much like they did JFK, having no voice left in the matter.

    Ron Paul or Mitt will be the two finalist. Without knowing the VP choice it gets somewhat cloudy. Two very different men with different ideas. I like them both. Both much better choices then offered 2008. Didn’t Ron Paul drop out in 2008 or was he cut in the primaries?

    • Song

      Got to agree with you there bob w.

  • Graystroke

    To write an article without making your case you have failed. Mormonism is a cult period. IT is important to understand doctrine. You think Jesus Christ went to the cross for preaching an adulterated gospel? You think Solomon got his reward for abandoning God and following other gods of Baal because of his lust for women? You and the entire Christian community that support Mormonism are flat out wrong! This nation continue to be under the judgment of God because we have strayed and follow so many other false gods. Make your own list but abortion is my first one, then the 501(c)3 god of tax breaks, and adulterated gospels abound because we now lack the courage to call them out. Horay for the Pastor that had the guts to call out the cult for what it is. We need a man of virtue and leadership and wisdom. I see no King Davids out there. Those that sound the alarm today get castigate as much as Samuel and Jeremiah for speaking Godly truths and so it will be until the Lord’s return. But we are called to fight the good fight of faith and not be door mats.Read this new release: Can Mitt Romney Serve Two Masters? located here:http://tinyurl.com/3t7bzbw
    Here is a synopsis: Product Description
    The information in this book goes much deeper than the unveiling of Mitt Romney’s political record. For the first time in history, we could see a Mormon President at the helm. Do you have any idea what this possible next President believes? Why should his religious beliefs matter to you? When you get through Part I of this book, these questions will be answered. This is NOT a Kennedy Catholic moment. Mitt Romney’s beliefs and convictions are so uncanny that you will most assuredly question his judgment to be in charge of the highest office in the land. If Part I does not shake you, Part II will, by exposing the reality of what Romney has “done” in his political career, versus the conservative façade that we are led to believe. Will his rhetoric match his deeds as President? One look at his record herewith will cause great concern.
    About the Author
    Tricia, as a former Mormon Bishop’s daughter and Mormon wife, went through the cultic, violent and bizarre Mormon secret temple ceremonies of which Mitt and Ann Romney continue to attend to this day. As a former Mormon, it took Tricia many years to deprogram herself from the lies, strange ceremonies and strategic misinformation that continues to be fed to all Mormons. Tricia is President of Crisis Management, Incorporated and a media, political and image consultant. She has appeared on numerous national television and radio shows on the subjects of Mormonism, Image Projection, Islam, All Things Political and more. This nation cannot afford to make another mistake in 2012. By the next Presidential Election, our country will not even resemble what our forefathers fought for in order that we as a nation could prosper and enjoy life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. The recent change of power in congress, the hopeful change in the senate and the upcoming presidential election is the only hope we have of turning our country back to the Constitution and to the great nation it once was. If you read this book, you will know why Mitt Romney is not “the one” to lead us out of the recession, much less, to put our country back together. With what is at stake, it is essential to gain knowledge of Romney’s record as a public servant and the shocking beliefs of this man who could become our next president. If the American people posses the information in this book, it very well may avert a similar fate suffered under the Obama Administration and clear the way for an authentic and trustworthy candidate to take the very office that is crucial to lead us back to the nation that once was, and still could be.

    The scriptures say that Satan comes as a angel of light. In other words a pleasant man speaking sugary words. How many here still follow televangelists?? Be honest with yourself, if you do then you still lack the discernment about this evil man. I know that the first 10 years I was also deceived and followed them. Thank God for Grace!

    • Song

      Time to go back to the stratosphere Graystroke. Might I remind you that it was Christians that burnt witches at the stake? They were known as Puritans (or Protestants) and the only thing that you accomplish with your diatribe with distortion and lies about the Mormons is to continue to paint Christians like yourself as completely loony, radical and ill educated.

      • OB1

        They were not true Christians at all. The were a small societal order who had and took CONTROL and USED the name Christian. Has been being done since the first century post Jesus. Agin I will say to you by their fruits ye shall KNOW them (the real followers of Christ).

        Galatians 5:22-23

        King James Version (KJV)

        22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering,(patience) gentleness, goodness, faithfulness,

        23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

        I see no one in our current candidate who exemplifies this more than Ron Paul. Think about it: 30 years or so in the House of Representatives! I could not have done it! I would have hit someone or been arrested! This man has a consistent voting record, a solid statement of faith and LIVES IT! He does not preach it! He has lived it! He’s got my vote and anyone else I can explain this to wither they are kicking and screaming or not.

        • AJ

          well put OB1

      • Jay

        The Massachusetts Bay Colony was founded by the Puritans in the 1630s with Salem being one of its principle port towns. It had become evident by the 1670s, however, that most of the citizens of the colony were not Puritans (or “born-again Christians” in today’s vernacular). By the 1690s, when the Salem Witch hysteria took place, the Puritan era had pretty much waned. By this time, the Puritans were the minority.

        The prevailing idea today is that it was the Puritans who killed witches in Salem. Actually, the situation was that some innocent people were accused of withcraft by people who were not genuinely converted at all. The only real witchcraft going on was practiced by a servant of the town pastor! But because she confessed her sin and repented the townspeople, as a whole, forgave her. The resulting problem of the Salem witch trials was that you had superstitious, unconverted people using extra-biblical, unorthodox criteria by which to judge witches.

        A pastor in Salem stirred up the original problem with irresponsible preaching and false accusations. But then he had to deflect guilt, because the witch hysteria was found to be eminating from his own household! The townspeople began accusing others and the hysteria spread. The civil court had plenty of nonsense to draw from, written mainly by Anglican pastors from England. These men argued that traditional, extra-biblical accounts of the occult were acceptable as information on the nature of the occult, and this side won the debate (with an enormous amount of bogus evidence).

        It is untrue to say that the Puritans or “born-again Christians” were responsible for the deaths of innocent people. In fact, the Salem witchcraft trials were stopped by a Puritan pastor from Beverly, Massachusetts. He charged that none of the evidence met biblical criteria. So it was a true minister of the gospel who stopped the state from executing witches in Salem. The minister who brought the charges was dismissed from his pastorate due to his role in the affair.

        • Song

          hmmm kind of like a pastor in Texas Jay? lol

          • Jay

            Can you me more specific Song? You do realize that speaking in generalities, and painting everyone with the same brush, is in essence, racism, right? How long have you been a racist, Song? I have read all your comments on this thread, and it seems to me, that you, are one of the biggest intolerant, racist, bigots on this site so far! You remind me of Pavlov’s dog, except, instead of drooling, and salivating at the sound of a bell, you, start drooling and salivating at key words, such as; Christians, Bible, Puritans, and Evangelicals! You can agree or disagree with their views and opinions, but spare them the rod, will you Song? But go ahead and Howl, and bay at the moon, if it makes you feel better!

          • Song

            Jay go ahead and pretend that you and any other religious zealot on this board like Peter and OB1 and even Samurai are not hateful and bigoted int their religious zeal. Exactly like the pastor who incited the Salem Witch Trials. The only thing that you and your ilk have demonstrated on this board is how truly ignorant you “bible thumpers” are. The only thing you can do is spit vermon at people and cite scripture after scripture condemning people that don’t believe as you to hell, as if Jesus Christ would sanction any of your bad behavior! That is what is so entirely laughable. In your piousness you actually think you are what spreading the message of Christ? You are no better than the pharisees and saducees of old. Should you all look in the mirror!

          • Jay

            There you go again Song, hiding behind your hate and your ignorance. While at the same time not realizing that you are that of which you criticize and hate! The thief will see and suspect every one else as thieves, like wise, the liar, the racist and the bigot! For all the furious energy you have spent on pointing out, the intolerance and the bigotry, you seem to have failed to observe that obvious principle! No Song, the only pathetic one here, is you!

          • http://naver samurai

            Neeeeed to look in the mirror song. Why always with the Salem Witch Trials? Isn’t that the same arguement that Robert Smith and his ilk seem to post quite often? Are you in league with such dastardly individuals? FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Jay

            I suspect that she may have painted all her mirrors black!

    • Peter

      Graystroke my friend, I urge you NOT to listen to any of the naysayers on here. I know you are correct, and so does the Lord. Bless you.

  • BeoWulf

    All I have to says is, I would much rather have a Morman in the White House than have that Muslim in the White House.

    There should be now contest on this issue.

  • http://Boblivingstonletter Lyle McDaniel

    I am a little late on the enlightenment going on here . depending on what religion can do. Islam- mohamudism with a backing they have in this country today,could be the very end of our way of life. With the right followers in place.We could have sharia law implemented very rapidly as some have tried to do thru federal judges and force in a number of our states . this came about from the presedent we have now just testing the waters.Then particular govenors sympathizing with the Islams in their states.You surely know who those infadels are that they are compelled to kill off to go be with Allah. Yes we do need to be very cautious in our choice of candidate. I for one have no doubts of Ron Paul.

  • Joe_

    Sir, the fact that Romney is a Mormon does not in my mind eliminate him from consideration as a presidential candidate. What eliminates him as a candidate in my mind is that the liberals chose the last Republican candidate for us and they are about to do it again. That way, they have two horses in the race and the worst that can happen is that their favorite horse, Obama comes in second place. But which ever liberal disposed candidate wins, they still get 1st prize.

    I would like to see a Republican candidate who is the best choice, not just the proverbial ‘lesser of two evils’ because even if the lesser wins, you still get evil in the white house and I think we have seen more than enough of that.

  • theotherrhalf

    Thank you for the great article. It is refreshing to see some articles written like this. I think it shows a true “Christian” spirit, unlike the bible thumpers, who quote a million scriptures and scream about communists..
    I was raised Catholic, changed to Baptist, and have since been about every religion in between. I currently don’t go to church and probably never will again. Every church religion thinks they are “the one” who has the true answer. To the point where people become intolerant of others. You know Christians take the log out of your own eye, right?
    I like that Obama is not the kind of president that would throw religion in your face, and even if he was Muslim, who cares? I’ve known better Muslims than I have Christians, I’ve known better Mormons than I have uber right wing Christians. Its not what you preach people, its how you live. I like Ron Paul, he has faith but he’s not going to throw it in your face or belittle you for yours.
    I don’t necessarily agree with his all social views, but I do think he is a man of integrity. I am kind of a liberal libertarian. I like to think that I am tolerant and care for my fellow humans.
    Religion throughout history has always been the way to control the masses. Money controls people, politics control people, the last thing we need in religion in there.
    Though I am sure this quote is not entirely Sinclair Lewis – I like it anyway.
    “When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross.” -

    • AJ

      theotherrhalf,
      “When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross.” Oh how no truer words have been spoken!

    • http://naver samurai

      More like the pantigram or upside down star. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

  • http://none gundlr

    I certainly would not vote for a Muslim for president. His belief systm (Sharia Law)is diabollicly opposed to the constitution. So religion does influence our votes. Let the American public decide if his religion is important. They decided that Obama’s race was important and voted for him because of it. While some people will vote against Romney because he is a Mormon, I’m sure many mormons will vote for him.

  • Jeri

    Our nation was founded on Godly principles, by Godly men. There is so much deception today that without the Spirit of God, no one can tell the difference. God’s Word says we will know them “By their Fruit!” If a politian lies, (as Rick Perry has), how can he still claim to be a “Christian?” Jesus said that if a person is a liar, their father is the father of lies…who is the devil. In the same manner, people think we should do as well if we could find a “leader” to run our beloved country without acknowledging Jesus Christ as the Son of God. If a President cannot acknowledge Him, the Bible clearly states that this is the spirit of anti-Christ. There are no dark, shady areas in God’s Word. Black is black, & white is white. Mitt Romney probably is a “good, moral person,” (though Jesus said that no one is “good”). We would do better to vote blind-folded than to vote for (anyone) who is not a follower of Jesus Christ, the Son of God. Jesus was not a just a good man, prophet, teacher, or “anything else” all other religions teach of Him. God always called men who were after His own heart to lead HIS people. God knows how truly dumb sheep are!

  • B

    What happens when Romney is President and needs to go to the Mormon Temple to do the rituals including getting baptized for all his dead relatives so they can get a better “godhood” in the afterlife? No one but a devout Mormon can go in the temple. Is Romney going to forgo going to the temple for four to eight years? Are we going to have to find devout Mormon secret service agents. The President can’t go anywhere without secret service. This could be a big problem. If they only have devout Mormon secret service I can see a claim of discrimination. Is the Mormon church going to excuse Romney from doing his temple duties? I imagine if he is an elder in the church he must be a pretty devout Mormon.

    Mormons are NOT a branch of Christianity. Jesus and Lucifer were spirit brothers in heaven. This is only one disagreement. They have to do works including getting baptized for the dead to get to heaven which is the celestial heavens not where God dwells. They get to be gods on their own planets. Women have to be called up by their husband or their bishop where they get to be eternally pregnant. They get to birth lots of spirit babies that are awaiting their human bodies on earth. I suggest you look past the public persona that they present and see what the church really teaches.

    • Song

      I suggest you do the same B since you and Peter and Samurai and OB1 and Old Henry etc. and et al., clearly know absolutely nothing about the Mormon faith. Truly laughable. I do believe Christ says a lot about liars and those who would cast the first stone???? LOL – what a pathetic bunch.

      • Jay

        I suppose the same could be said about you, Song, as you have thrown a considerable amount of stones. What is it that ails you about people who happen to have a different view then yours? You seem very insecure, characteristics, btw, of a blind religious zealot!

        • Song

          Really Jay? Are you addressing this comment to me or B or Peter or Simian or OB1 or Old Henry or any other poster who has done nothing but castigate the Mormons for what they believe without even knowing anything about them!? Want to try again Jay?

          • Jay

            They weren’t , as you say, castigating Mormons, Song. They were merely pointing out the differences in doctrines, and concluding, that doctrines specific to Mormonism, are inadequate with respect to Salvation. How is that castigating Mormons? When you, Song, call all, born again Christians, religious bigots, because they do not accept your beliefs, or the beliefs of other religions, what exactly then, are you found to be doing? Disagreeing, or castigating? Seems to me, that anyone who doesn’t hitch their horse to your wagon will be labeled a bigot, and accused of castigating! For the most part, i found most comments, except for some, to be within the bounds of civility.

          • http://naver samurai

            Wrong answer Song! I never said anything about the Mormons. I know about their history and founders, but that is it. I don’t know anything about their worship services, tec., so what is your point? I don’t know any Mormons, so I cannot comment on them. Most of my posts deal with our founding and about Christianity, nothing about Mormonism. OK? FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

  • Peter

    Mormonism is a cult.
    Do your homework.
    In Christianity many many prophecies have been proven correct.
    Ask the most astute Mormon you know to name just ONE prophecy of Joseph Smith that has come true.
    There are absolutely NONE! (no surprises there)
    Joseph Smith said that the demons who followed satan into hell were black, and that black people would never be allowed into the LDS ‘church’.
    Guess what? As of a few years ago, due to ‘popular demand’, African Americans were suddenly allowed into the LDS ‘church’. This was obviously due to political expediency, rather than any moral or spiritual ‘enlightenment’.
    Ladies! Do you know what heaven is for Mormon women?
    I love this!
    You will all be eternally barefoot and pregnant with ‘spirit babies’ on new worlds, where many of you will have the same ‘spirit husband’ who keeps on plugging away at you so you don’t get any rest!
    Ain’t polygamy beeeyoooteeful?
    Seriously though folks, if you can’t see now that this so-called ‘religion’ is one of the best organized cults in the world, I feel very sorry for you.

    • Song

      And your complete ignorance for a faith you clearly do not understand and know nothing about as well as your zeal to promote utter rubbish is the only fact from your entire post Peter.

      • Jay

        Song, are you a Mormon?

        • Song

          Jay if you have read all of the posts and call me hateful, than you are clearly indoctrinated and turn a blind eye to the absolute lies, hate and ugliness posted by your so called “loving” Christians on this board. That I point out the fundamentalist thinking and rigid idealogues of these posts does not make me hateful. It is merely a fact. The only hate is coming from those who profess themselves to be “true” Christians (what a laugh!)

          As for myself, I have the benefit of having good friends who are Mormon, Buddhist, agnostic and Native American (just to name a few)and the only people that I have ever found to be insufferable are the fundamentalist Christians like the ones on this board. Intolerant, ignorant, hateful and devisive. Fundamentalism in any form, in any religion is the same, and I will not tolerate it.

          • Jay

            You’re lying, Song. The only thing you have proven is that you are incapable of serious, and objective research! Anyone who cannot see that LDS is a religious cult, is either ignorant, uninterested, or just a plain simpleton!

          • http://naver samurai

            Song must be an atheist. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • Jay

            No Samurai, i suspect that Song is a Mormon, but doesn’t have the courage to admit it! She claims that all Christian religions, except for Mormonism, of course, promote narrow-minded, fundamentalist, and hate-filled bigots. But, what she will not tell you, for reasons that should be obvious, is the LDS’s policies on homosexuality, and LDS’s contribution to the oppression of homosexuals! Why is that? Seems clear, that Song has failed to do her research! Check out the link below.

            http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_lds5.htm

      • Peter

        Song, your ignorance and anger do you no justice! For your information, one of my very dear friends is a Mormon and remains so to this day. He has tried several times to indoctrinate me into his faith. As a favor to him I have gone along to many meetings with Mormon missionaries who have done their utmost to convince me to join their church. I read a lot of the book of Mormon. I studied a lot to see if there were anything genuine I could find in this religion. The more I studied, the more I discovered the truth, that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is nothing but a well-organized cult, started by a con-man for his own purposes, and sadly followed by far too many people in this world.
        Song, I suggest you ask questions of people before you blindly attack.
        Oh, and please do tell me just ONE prophecy of Joseph Smith that has actually come true…pretty please?
        I notice you haven’t responded to any of my challenges, say regarding African-Americans? How about it?

        • Jay

          Don’t hold your breath Peter, as Song will not respond to legitimate questions regarding the truth about the LDS organization! Her vehement, and irrational defence of the organization, while demonizing all others, leads one conclude that Song, may in fact, belong, and is an active member of the LDS!

  • Karolyn

    Problems again with this site!

    • libertytrain

      I haven’t had any?

  • jakc

    In fairness, Steve was a Mormon and Mormons take stake basketball VERY seriously. I don’t know that I would want to trust a baptist with those kinds of responsibilities regarding basketball

  • GENE

    MY ANCESTERS WERE MORMON ALL THE WAY DOWN FROM THE BIGINNING OF THE ORGANIZATION…LOTS WERE LEADERS AT VARIOUS LEVELS AS WAS I ..THE REAL STORY ABOUT THE “CHURCH ISN’T SO MUCH WHAT THEY SAY TO THE NEIGHBORS AND TO THE PRESS! WHAT THEY COMMIT TO IN THE TEMPLE COVENANTS BY WAY OF BLOOD OATHS… TO GIVE EVERYTHING TO THE CHURCH, TO DEDICATE THIER LIFE TO THE “RAISING UP THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN ON EARTH” WHICH MEANS THE “CHURCH WILL ULTIMATELY REIGN AND GOVERN THE WORLD! yOU CAN FIND THE LDS TEMPLE ORDINACE ON LINE IF YOU TRY! SEE FOR YOURSELF. CULT..I BELIEVE SO! BY SHARING THIS THERE ARE THOSE WHO HAVE PROMICED TO CUT MY THROAT, DISEMBOWEL ME ETC ETC…NOT JERRY JONES..BUT HOPEFULLY YOU GET THE IDEA..OH ONE LAST STATEMENT… THE CHURCH HAS MADE.IN THE LAST DAYS A PROPHET FROM THE CHURCH WILL RISE UP AND SAVE THE WORLD FROM THE BEAST! LOOK IT UP! ITS THERE IN THE MORMON TEACHINGS. NO CULT? POWER BY INTIMIDATION..LOOK AT THEIR HISTORY…ASK THE CHURCH TO OPEN THIER FINANCIAL BOOKS TO THE PUBLIC…NOR NEAR AS BENEVOLENT AS THEY WANT US TO THINK!

  • Jay

    Mormonism And The Freemasonry Connection:

    The Temple Endowment ceremony is simply a modified version of the Freemasonry ceremony which existed long before Joseph Smith was born. Joseph and Hyrum Smith were both active Masons.

    Many parts of the Temple Endowment Ceremony (verbiage, handgrips, arm positions, whispering in ear, fig-leaf apron, secret passwords, chanting, etc.) were plagiarized from Freemasonry ceremonies.

    Joseph Smith introduced the Mormon Temple ceremony within 2 months of becoming a Mason. There were Masons in the mob that killed Joseph as he had his arms raised in the Masonic distress call, “Oh Lord, my God! Is there no help for the poor widow’s son?” when he was shot. They had a problem with him plagiarizing the Masonic ceremony in the Mormon Temple ceremony. Please note that neither the Freemasonry ceremony nor the Mormon Temple Endowment Ceremony are secret, as all details of both are in the public domain.

    Heber C. Kimball wrote to Parley P. Pratt: “We have organized a Lodge here of Masons … near 200 have been made Masons. Brother Joseph and Sidney [Rigdon] were the first that were received into the Lodge.

    All of the twelve have become members except Orson P. [Pratt] … Brother Joseph says Masonry was taken from the Priesthood, but has become degenerated …. We have the true Masonry.” From an underground typewritten copy of Dr. Durham’s talk carefully compared with a tape recording thereof and certified to be accurate by Mervin B. Hogan, Secretary of the Masonic Research Lodge of Utah in Salt Lake City, No Help For the Widow’s Son, by Reed C. Durham, p. 25.

    The story of carved golden plates in an arched stone vault is very similar to an older story from Freemasonry.

    The Mormon term “Celestial Kingdom” is disturbingly similar to the older Freemasonry term “Celestial Lodge Above.”

    The Freemasonry ceremonies are not from Solomon’s Temple.

    Freemasonry is a religion:

    “Every Masonic Lodge is a temple of religion, and its teachings are instructions in … the universal, eternal, immutable religion….” Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry, by Albert Pike, Washington D.C., 1958, pp. 213, 219.

    “[Masonry is] … the custodian and depository (since Enoch) of the great philosophical and religious truths, unknown to the world at large….” Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry, by Albert Pike, Washington D.C., 1958, p. 210.

    “Without this religious element it would scarcely be worthy of cultivation by the wise and good….” An Encyclopedia of Freemasonry, by Albert G. Mackey, 1921, pp. 618-619.

    Freemasonry’s god is a triune deity called JaoBulOn. It is a form of Baal. It’s Lucifer worship. Note in the third quotation below that Freemasonry reverses the roles of God and Satan. And remember that Joseph Smith embraced Freemasonry when he plagiarized it for the Mormon Temple ceremony.

    “Masonry, like all the religions, all the Mysteries, Hermeticism and Alchemy, conceals its secrets from all except the Adepts and Sages, or the Elect, and uses false explanations and misinterpretations of its symbols to mislead those who deserve only to be misled; to conceal the Truth, which it calls light, from them…. Truth is not for those that are unworthy….” Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry, by Albert Pike, Washington D.C., 1958, p 104-105.

    “The Blue Degrees are but the outer court…of the Temple. Part of the symbols are displayed there to the [lower] Initiate, but he is intentionally misled by false interpretations. It is not intended that he shall understand them, but it is intended that he shall imagine he understands them.” Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry, by Albert Pike, Washington D.C., 1958, p. 819.

    God is known as “the nameless one of a hundred names.” Henry Wilson Coil, A Comprehensive View of Freemasonry, Richmond: Macoy Publishing, 1973, p. 192.

    “God is equally present with the pious Hindu in the temple, the Jew in the synagogue, the Mohammedan in the mosque, and the Christian in the church.” Albert Mackey, Mackey’s Revised Encyclopedia of Freemasonry, Richmond: Macoy Publishing, 1966, 1:409-410.

    Freemasonry is not Christian. If it’s not Christian, but it is a religion (which Masons have confirmed above), then it by definition conflicts with Christianity. Thus one can’t simultaneously be a Christian and a Mason.

    “Freemasonry is not Christianity … it admits men of every creed within its hospitable bosom….” An Encyclopedia of Freemasonry, by Albert G. Mackey, 1921, pp. 618-619.

    “[Masonry] … sees in Moses … in Confucius and Zoroaster, in Jesus of Nazareth, and in [Mohammed] great teachers of morality and eminent reformers….” Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry, by Albert Pike, Washington D.C., 1958, pp. 277, 525.

    The LDS Temple Endowment ceremony has been changed many times (basically it’s been toned down). (The Christian God is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow.)

    Joseph and Hyrum’s Freemasonry Lodge was becoming the largest Freemasonry Lodge in Illinois. The non-LDS Masons in the state felt threatened by the LDS takeover of Masonry. See Evidences and Reconciliations (first edition), by Apostle John A. Widstoe, volume 3, p. 358.

    The Mormon garment (underwear) has pagan Freemasonry symbols sewn into it, such as the compass and the square.

    Until recently being removed from the Mormon Temple ceremony, Temple patrons swore an oath to:

    bind themselves to the penalty of having their throats cut from ear to ear
    bind themselves to the penalty of having their hearts plucked out of their chests
    bind themselves to the penalty of having their bodies disemboweled.
    These three former-Mormon Temple Endowment ceremony oaths were copied directly from Freemasonry ceremonies.

    http://www.whatismormonism.com/

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      John Smith was a man. He came here, and like all men, he died and went into the ground to rot. If you dig up his grave, his bones are lying there. He was just a man, flesh and bones.

    • Jeri

      Shawn Brown & Jay, I am so proud to see there are true intelligent men that still exist in the United States of America! Blessed be the Lord God Almighty!!! I think since the FDA has lied to the people for so long, telling us we shouldn’t eat eggs because of the cholesterol, people’s brains are deficient of lutein…the one ingredient that feeds the brain. Then, they had to make sure they feed anti-depressants to everyone & anyone that will take them…and then, for our dear elderly, being toxified with aluminum to be sure to cause dementia!!! I think our government pretty much has all the bases covered so they can carry out their plans for the One World Order.

  • Jay

    Seventeen Little Known Facts About the Mormon Religion:

    The following facts represent teachings that are either openly taught in the Mormon Church today, or that have been taught by the highest authorities of the Mormon Church. All quotes given are from official LDS publications or the Bible.

    FACT #1. The Mormon Church teaches ALL other Churches are WRONG; ALL their creeds are an ABOMINATION in the sight of God; and ALL their teachers are CORRUPT. One of the Mormon Books of Scripture, The Pearl of Great Price, says this about non-LDS churches: “…they were ALL WRONG; and the Personage who addressed me said that ALL their creeds were an ABOMINATION in his sight; that those professors were ALL CORRUPT; …” (Joseph Smith, 2:19)

    FACT #2. Mormonism teaches there is no salvation outside the Mormon Church and no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. Apostle Bruce R. McConkie makes this statement: “If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation. There is no salvation outside The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.” (Mormon Doctrine, p.670) The Bible, on the other hand, teaches salvation is in Jesus alone; “Neither is there salvation in any other [Jesus]: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.” (Acts 4:12)

    FACT #3. Mormons are taught to doubt the reliability of the Bible and their leaders have consistently attacked its accuracy. Joseph Smith claimed: “… it was apparent that many important points touching the salvation of men, had been taken from the Bible, or lost before it was compiled.” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.10) The Bible answers this attack: “The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand forever.” (Isaiah 40:8)

    FACT #4. A basic tenant in Mormonism today is that Jesus Christ is the brother of Satan. Milton R. Hunter explains it like this: “The appointment of Jesus to be the Savior of the world was contested by one of the other sons of God. He was called Lucifer, … this spirit-brother of Jesus desperately tried to become the Savior of mankind.” (The Gospel Through The Ages, p.15) Nowhere in the Bible does it indicate that Lucifer attempted to become the Savior: In fact, Jesus created Satan, so they can’t be brothers. Colossians 1:16 indicates that Jesus created “all things,” whether “in heaven,” or “in earth, visible or invisible.”

    FACT #5. Mormonism continues to teach that God the Father is a glorified, resurrected Man, and men and women may become Gods and Goddesses. Apostle Bruce R. McConkie makes this claim: “God himself, the Father of us all, is a glorified, exalted, immortal, resurrected Man!” (Mormon Doctrine, p. 643) Joseph Smith, the founder of Mormonism taught: “…you have to learn how to be Gods ourselves…the same as all Gods have done before you,…” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 346) The Lord Himself answers this teachings by pronouncing: “…I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.” (Isaiah 44:6)

    FACT #6. Mormons consider Polygamy a righteous principle which will be practiced in heaven. Although there is nothing in the Bible that will support this thinking, current Mormon Scripture has this to say: “…if any man espouse a virgin, and desire to espouse another, and the first give her consent, and if he espouse the second, and they are virgins, and have vowed to no adultery … And if he have TEN VIRGINS given unto him by this law, he cannot commit adultery …” (Doctrine and Covenants 132:61,62)

    FACT #7. Mormons today believe God the Father is married and past leaders have taught both God the Father and Jesus Christ are polygamists. Apostle Orson Pratt makes these unbelievable statements: “… the great Messiah who was the founder of the Christian religion, was a Polygamist … the Messiah chose to take upon himself his seed; and by marrying many honorable wives himself, show to all future generations that he approbated the plurality of Wives under the Christian dispensation … God the Father had a plurality of wives … the Son followed the example of his Father … both God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ inherit their wives in eternity as well as in time; …” (The Seer, p. 172) Nowhere in the Bible does it indicate that God the Father and Jesus Christ are married or polygamists.

    FACT #8. The majority of the activity in the Mormon Temples is work done in behalf of the DEAD. Joseph Smith offers this explanation: “The greatest responsibility in this world that God has laid upon us is to seek after our DEAD.” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 356). Although many Mormons are attempting to save their dead relatives, the Bible indicates: “None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him.” (Psalms 49:7)

    FACT #9. To the Mormon, the ultimate test that Mormonism is true is an “inner feeling.” Mormons often refer to this feeling as a “burning in the bosom.” They believe their scripture (Doctrine and Covenants 9:8) gives the best test for determining truth. This test reads: “… study it out in your mind; then you must ask me [the Lord] if it be right, and if it is right I will cause that your bosom shall burn within you; therefore, you shall FEEL that it is right.” The Bible, on the other hand, tell us: “Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.” (II Timothy 2:15)

    FACT #10. Mormon leaders demand total obedience regardless whether they are right or wrong. The ward teacher’s message for June, 1945, stated: “When our leaders speak, the thinking has been done. When they propose a plan–it is God’s plan. When they point the way, there is no other which is safe. When they give direction, it should mark the end of controversy. God works in no other way. To think otherwise, without immediate repentance, may cost one his faith, may destroy his testimony, and leave him a stranger to the kingdom of God.” (Improvement Era, June 1945, p. 354) Herber C. Kimball, First Councilor to Brigham Young, clarifies further: “But if you are told by your leader to do a thing, do it. None of your business whether it is right or wrong.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p.32) The Bible warns us in I John 4:1: “Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.”

    FACT #11. Mormon leaders have consistently attacked the Biblical doctrine of Salvation by God’s Grace through Faith alone. In Apostle James Talmage’s book, The Articles of Faith, twice he refers to justification by Faith alone as a “pernicious doctrine,” and further declares: “The Sectarian Dogma of Justification by Faith Alone has exercised an influence for evil.” (pp. 107,480) The Bible responds: “Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.”

    FACT #12. Mormon Apostle Bruce R. McConkie has warned his people against a personal relationship with the Lord Jesus. McConkie made these shocking statements at a speech given at BYU. “… gaining a special, personal relationship with Christ that is both improper and perilous … Now, I know that some may be offended and the counsel that they should not strive for a special and personal relationship with Christ … But you been warned, and you have heard the true doctrine taught.” (Church News, week ending March 20, 1982, p.5) In opposition to this, Jesus gives us a personal invitation: “Come unto me, all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.” (Matthew 11:28)

    FACT #13. Joseph Smith founder of the Mormon Church, boasted of doing a greater “work” than the Lord Jesus. Joseph Smith made this incredible boast: “I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet.” (History of the Church, Volume 6, Chapter 19, Page 408) No true Prophet of God ever spoke such words as these.

    FACT #14. In 1835 Joseph Smith prophesied concerning the coming of the Lord. At a meeting called by Joseph Smith he instructed the Latter day Saints that it was “the will of God” to go forth and “prune the vineyard for the last time, or the coming of the Lord, which was nigh even fifty six years should wind up the scene.” (History of the Church, vol. 2, p. 182) Eight years later he reinforced this by stating: “I prophesy in the name of the Lord God, and let it be written; the Son of Man will not come in the clouds of heaven till I am eighty five years old.” (History of the Church, vol.5, p. 336)

    FACT #15. Mormons are taught to “shake hands” with a messenger to determine if he is from God or if he is the devil. The following information is found in Mormon scripture: “When a messenger comes saying he has a message from God, offer him your hand and request him to shake hands with you. If he be an angle he will do so, and you will feel his hand … If it be the devil as an angel of light, when you ask him to shake hands he will offer you his hand, and you will not feel anything; you may therefore detect him.” (Doctrine and Covenants 129:4,5,8) Rather that trusting in “feelings” the Bible commands us to “Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.”

    FACT #16. Brigham Young claimed that these who leave the Mormon Church would turn “wrinkled” and “black.” The following curse was pronounced by Brigham Young: “… but let them apostatize, and they will become gray-haired, wrinkled, and black, just like the Devil.” (Journal of Discourses, vol. 5, p. 332) There have been tens of thousands of people leave the Mormon Church — Where are the “black and wrinkled” ones?

    FACT #17. Joseph Smith taught the moon was inhabited by people who dressed like Quakers and lived to be about 1000 years old. In the Mormon publication, The Young Woman’s Journal, pp. 263 & 264, O.B. Huntington gives this interesting information: “As far back as 1837, I know that he [Joseph Smith] said the moon was inhabited by men and women the same as this earth, and that they lived to a greater age than we do — that they live generally to near the age of 1000 years. He [Smith] described the men as averaging near six feet in height, and dressing quite uniformly in something near the Quaker style.” Now that man has walked on the Moon, there can be no doubt that there aren’t any 6 foot tall Quakers roaming its surface.

    Matt 24:23-25, New Living Translation: “Then if anyone tells you, `Look, here is the Messiah,’ or `There he is,’ don’t pay any attention. For false messiahs and false prophets will rise up and perform great miraculous signs and wonders so as to deceive, if possible, even God’s chosen ones. See, I have warned you.”

    http://www.whatismormonism.com/

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      And the one thing that makes Christianity different than any other religion, is that Jesus Christ is alive and well. He holds the keys to life and death. Death could not hold him. They have the grave site where he was put to rest, only 3 days later, as foretold in the Scriptures, he rose from the dead. The gravesite is still there, where it was all those years ago, and there is no body in it. All other religions founders and leaders died, and their rotted bodies are still there.

  • Jay

    Classic characteristics of a cult:

    Veneration of the Leader: Excessive glorification to the point of virtual sainthood or divinity.

    Inerrancy of the Leader: Belief that he or she cannot be wrong.

    Omniscience of the Leader: Acceptance of beliefs and pronouncements on virtually all subjects, from the philosophical to the trivial.

    Persuasive Techniques: Methods used to recruit new followers and reinforce current beliefs.

    Hidden Agendas: Potential recruits and the public are not given a full disclosure of the true nature of the group’s beliefs and plans.

    Deceit: Recruits and followers are not told everything about the leader and the group’s inner circle, particularly flaws or potentially embarrassing events or circumstances.

    Financial and/or Sexual Exploitation: Recruits and followers are persuaded to invest in the group, and the leader may develop sexual relations with one or more of the followers.

    Absolute Truth: Belief that the leader and/or group has a method of discovering final knowledge on any number of subjects.

    Absolute Morality: Belief that the leader and/or the group have developed a system of right and wrong thought and action applicable to members and nonmembers alike. Those who strictly follow the moral code may become and remain members, those who do not are dismissed or punished.
    - from “Why People Believe Weird Things” by Michael Shermer

    Salvation: Group proposes a superior state of beingness or salvation.

    Lovebombing: Group promotes displaying excess consideration or even affection towards a new recruit in order to give him a sense of belonging and keep him in the organization.

    Cognitive dissonance: Contradictions are used in conditioning members to accept the group’s doctrine or mechanisms. The act of accepting and rationalizing these contradictions is an important element of brainwashing.

    Charismatic leadership: Emphasis is placed on the leader or leaders. These leaders can issue commands or edicts obeyed without question. Worshipping and loyalty are paramount.

    Deception in recruiting: When one is involved in the group, lies and deceptions in the recruiting material are soon apparent.

    Exploitation: People work for virtually nothing, usually to the profit of the leaders.

    Separation from friends and family: People are invited to stop talking to friends or family who do not encourage their participation in the group.

    Non-critical thinking: Doubting questions about the mechanisms or doctrine of the group are deflected or rejected. Usually, one must experience or be a leader in order to “understand”.

    Discrediting outside information: Any criticism from the outside is wrong. Only people on the inside really know what the doctrine or mechanisms are all about.

    Loss of independent judgment: The person must rely on other people, usually people above him in the hierarchy, before making any kind of decision, even personal decisions.

    Fear of leaving: Group promotes the idea that leaving the group is a very bad decision, which may make the member’s future life hellish (in religious doctrines, literally hellish).

    Sleep deprivation: Group forces its members to work unusually long hours. Sleep deprivation can also be used to help brainwashing. [Mormon Missionaries are worked very long hours].

    • http://naver samurai

      All good posts, fellow patriot! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

  • http://donthaveone Beberoni

    First of all, Im hearing people compare the Romney care with Obama care, and the are 2 different animals. The Rommey care only effected people without insurance, where as those that already had it, nothing changed. With Obama care, its going to effect even those with it, as our rates will skyrocket, doctors will leave and go elsewhere, and its a joke, so it is 2 different things. As to Romney being a Mormon, I could care less. Im a Christian man, and I could care less if the President is a Christian, a Catholic, a Mormon, a Jew, or even an atheist. Yes, I would like it if we had my Christian values across this country, because if that were the case, in a true Christian life, there would be no want and no greed, where everyone shared all they had. Acts 4:32. But since we do have this thing called separation of church and state, which is prostituted bigtime as to what it really meant when instituted in the beginning, but no President can push his beliefs on any of us, so it doesnt matter. Would I like a president that I know God is directing and in communication with? Absolutely. Now dont get me wrong, Im not a Romney guy, Im just saying it is wrong for those to assasinate him because of his religious beliefs. Now if the guy was a Muslim, yes, then I would have a problem, and Ill gladly explain why. Because the United States is a predominately Christian country, and the muslims have professed death the the Christian and the Jew, and will not stop trying to exterminate them until either they or us are dead. That is reason enough. I have also noticed, and I think it is because of his professed Christian faith, Rick Perry is being beaten up by the liberal press as they fear him, as they cant related to believing in God it seems. Just as they beat Sarah Palin, whoever they think is the best candidate to beat their guy, they are going to beat them up as much as they can. And thats the truth.

  • Shawn Brown

    Mr. Myers, as a conservative I agree with you on many political points..however you OBVIOUSLY are not a ” born again believing Follower of Jesus Christ of Nazareth”. For you to say it doesn’t matter what a leader believes as long as he believes in ” God ” is idiotic. Either Jesus is God or he is not. He is a Lunatic, a liar , or the Lord .. he gives you no other option. Mormanism is a cult…a cult as defined as what a group of so called believers believe about Jesus. If a group of people “believe” things other than the truth about what Jesus himself says and teaches about him self…they worship the wrong God .. hence are a CULT. If you only want to accept the ” good ” ” conservative – like ” teachings of Christ like..freedom, love your neightbor, believe in ” God “, monothesism…. you can not believe in the real Jesus. Jesus is God. Period. Jesus says he is the only… get that ONLY..way to heaven. Salvation is only in Jesus’s death on the cross. Not Judaism, not mormanism, not islam, not any other belief system. ONly in the death of a Jewish carpenter killed on the cross for our sins. The real Jesus … not a substitute or “anti- christ”. If you are not willing to die for what Christ says about himself in the new testament gospels…if you are not willing to die to yourself…die to what you believe and change your thoughts into alignment with what Christ teaches about himself…you will never be saved. It doesn’t matter if you are a good fiscal president , rich ,conservative or liberal….if you die without Jesus ALONE as your salvation you go to hell….deal with it. The bible teaches there is NO other way. When God had Noah build the ark he had him preach salvation to the world that would listen…if they would obey and get on the boat..they were saved…no other way to be saved..only 1 door…..whther the people didnt like it or believe it or not didnt change the fact that was their only chance at salvation. No other families got on the boat…God himself in the end shut the door himself. You can’t take Jesus piecemeal…he is a good way to base our govt on, make our laws patterned after the 10 commandments etc… baloney. He is not a way to heaven…he is THE way. You cant pick and choose what you want to believe about him. He was not a good teacher.. he doesnt give you that option. With what he said and did..he is either lunatic, liar, or the lord… you better find out about him..know what you believe and why you believe it. More important than a insignificant nation, like Usa, or a belief system like Liberalism or conservatism…. he is our CREATOR… he demands we make a choice about him….accapt him as he says he is or not.

  • Jay

    Masonic Symbols and the LDS Temple

    In the Spring of 2002 the LDS Church completed its reconstruction of the Nauvoo Temple in Illinois. It was originally built in the 1840′s but was destroyed after the Mormons abandoned the town. Due to the publicity and photos regarding this new temple many people have asked about the symbols on the building.

    To understand the symbols one must first know something of Joseph Smith’s involvement with Freemasonry. Joseph’s brother, Hyrum, had been a Mason since the 1820′s. Many other members of the LDS church, like Brigham Young, were Masons before they joined Mormonism.

    http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/masonicsymbolsandtheldstemple.htm

  • Jay

    HEY FOLKS, HOW ABOUT A LITTLE LEVITY? This one cracked me right up!

    June 29, 2011
    Mitt Romney Claims He Was Abducted By “Evil Liberal Twin”
    By Keith Spillett

    In a stunning announcement, Presidential hopeful Mitt Romney divulged that his evil twin Mittt was actually responsible for many of the decisions made while he was governor. “After years of deliberation, I’ve decided to come forward with the truth about many of my decisions as governor of Massachutsetts. Passing the health care bill and many other leftist decisions were made by my twin. It is he who is a liberal. I have always been committed to positions consistent with the most died in the wool conservative Americans.”

    According to Romney, he and his twin are mirror images of each other. Even the names are even extremely similar. Romney claims that the twin’s name is pronounced exactly the same. The final “t” is a silent and is neither pronounced nor written. While the two share identical features, they couldn’t be more different in terms of political views. Romney described his twin as a “card carrying socialist out of touch with the views of mainstream Americans” and excoriated him for his support of Massachusetts’ “dangerous and potentially apocalyptic” health care law.

    During today’s press conference, Romney detailed how his twin locked him in a meat locker in the basement of the governor’s mansion for two years while “evil Mittt” made terrible decisions that turned the State of Massachusetts into a “communistic wasteland”. Romney was only able to survive by eating Vienna Sausages and reading from the two books he had with him, The Bible and The Wit And Wisdom of Ronald Reagan. “In my darkest moments, it was the words of God and The Gipper that allowed me to survive.”

    Romney claims that at one point the Ghost of Barry Goldwater came to lighten his spirits. After Goldwater’s pep talk, Romney was able to use a frozen lamb shank to smash the lock and escape. “If not for the spirit of conservatism, I’d have surely frozen to death,” announced Romney proudly.

    There have been several other occasions where the Republican Presidential Candidate has been abducted and hidden by his liberal brother. “That whole thing about being pro-choice, that was my twin. And the stuff about letting clerks issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples. Him again! Pretty much all the things that have made me appear moderate in anyway whatsoever are the responsibility of Mittt. I’ve never had a thought in my mind at anytime that was even remotely liberal. I have never been within 300 feet of anyone who has ever been a member of the Democratic Party. I will not eat food produced packaged in plants that employ liberals. Mittt’s is the guilty one. It was him all along!”

    So far, no one has been able to contact Romney’s twin. Romney has furnished the media with pictures of Mittt (see below) but claims he has not spoken to him in years and is not sure where he is. “He’s joined Al-Qaeda for all I know,” fumed Romney, “I doubt we will see him again. Certainly not until the New York primary.”

    http://tyrannyoftradition.com/2011/06/29/mitt-romney-claims-he-was-abducted-by-evil-liberal-twin/

  • Peter Propwash

    I maryed a Morman and so far have no problem with the religen, although I dont agree with everything. of course I dont compleatley agree with Cathlics,Baqbtestes Presbeterians Jahoves witness budests orany other I have tried.

  • Questions

    Pastor Robert Jeffress should keep his religious beliefs to himself. We do not need another nut telling our leaders how they should run this country.

  • jopa

    During the last debate when Romney and Perry had their meltdown, Romney’s face got all, red his eyes teared up and he started calling out for Anderson Coopers help.I could have sworn he was running for Boehner’s job as Weeper of The House.That was not a very presidential moment and it made Romney look like a real chicken sh–.Can you imagine if he became President and someone called him a name.He would be on the phone crying to his momma(if she is still alive)constantly and nothing would get done.Wow “spell check” has Boehner’s name in it now.I don’t know why but I had a tendency to spell it Boner.

  • john schwab

    I can agree, within reason, in your position that one’s “faith” should not determine whether they will be a good President or not; I was prepared to vote for Romney in 2008 before he dropped out. And look at Obama’s pass by the media as he claimed to be a Christian, even though most of what he said and did was contrary to Christ’s teaching and life. Sucked in a lot of “professing” Christians to vote for him.
    And though I may not agree with Pastor Jeffress’ timing, and particularly at a political event, for his statement on Mormonism, his statement that the Jewish Journal arrogantly quoted, and perhaps by insertion your agree with, “the pastor’s laughable assertion a few years ago that “Mormonism, Islam, Judaism and Hinduism … lead people to an eternity of separation from God in hell.” is, after all, simply quoting the Bible and words of Jesus. This is very clear to any student of the Bible!

  • http://seoforagents..com Coach Katerina

    @ John- Thank you for a very well written article. I am a Mormon. I belong to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and I believe in God and in his son Jesus Christ. I am a LIbertarian who believes that we are to make our decisions based on the free will that our Heavenly Father entrusted to us. I know Mitt Romney personally and am very honored to know his good wife and children. He is a good father, a good business man and a good leader. I would love for Ron Paul to be President but Americans do not agree with many of his sound policies. It is most important to beat Obama and we can get a lot of independents and Dems to vote for Romney. He is the the most likely candidate to beat Obama. Even though I may not agree with all of his policies, I do believe in his integrity and honor.

    Thank you also for posting that excerpt from the Jewish Times. That was a great comment. So only 10,000 Christians will be saved and they will be looking down on all the rest of us burning in hell because we don’t believe what they believe??? First of all, all of the commenters here writing such evil and nasty comments about LDS members need to get their Bibles out and read what Jesus wants us all to do, the first and greatest commandment is to Love the Lord your GOD with all your heart, mind and strength and the second is like unto it, love your neighbor as yourself.

    Well, their examples here are not of Love but of hatred and intolerance of others. How sad it that. How bad that makes Christians look. We believe that we are Christians in our Church and who are they to judge us? Did God give them the right and job to judge us and act so self righteously? Or did God say to love your brothers and sisters and to pray for others and that God is the judge, not any of us. For those who will judge, the same too shall be judged. We are the only religion in the United States that ever had an extermination order signed by a Governor and a U.S. President. And that is what Christians do to their brothers and sisters in the gospel or even out side of the gospel?

  • jeanelane

    What I think is ridiculous is all the so-called Christians getting all up in arms with things you say. This country is not a Christian country. If it were, the Constitution would say so. Just because some of the founders were Christian, does not make this a Christian country. Jesus himself had no place to sleep, let alone a country. The Bible says that we are citizens of heaven. Do we have dual citizenship? I have been wondering for a while whether, as Christians, we should be involved in politics at all. Oh, I know this may start another onslaught of stupid comments, but that is not what this is about. Stop and think, you who say you are Christian. What would Jesus do? What DID Jesus do? He certainly did not insert himself into the political process. Neither did his apostles. And we are to follow his example.

    • Jeri

      My Dear Jeanelane, I think what is going on in our country right now is a “rude awakening!” We have been taken over by “government” propaganda, as well as “Christian” propaganda. We have strayed from the simplicity of the gospel of Jesus Christ, turning it into 7 steps to this & 10 steps to that…teachings that had nothing to do with the gospel, creating a whole different belief that Christ came here to make us all “comfortable!” You are so right about our “citizenship” not being here, but with Him. The reason Jesus did not want His disciples to fight for Him in the garden when the soldiers came for Him, was simply because His kingdom was not on this earth & He also HAD TO DIE for our sins. Just because we have not “known” war in our lifetime in this great nation, doesn’t mean we will not have to defend ourselves if this current administration continues to carry out their plans for the U.S. What do you think God means when He says He will bless those who stand with Israel, or curse those who do not? How do you defend a nation? With words, or in deeds? Haven’t you ever witnessed a child being bullied in school & jumped in to protect that person? If a rapist broke into your home & attacked your daughter, would you not do something to protect her? There comes a time when we must be bold & fight. In Acts, chapter 4, Peter & John were ordered to stop speaking or teaching about Jesus. When they were released, they continued all the more. This is not the time to be timid & afraid. “Greater is He who is in us, than he who is in the world.” The Word says that the Lord will not hold him guiltless, who knows that innocent blood is being shed & does nothing to save them. Such was the case with the Nazis exercising their torturing methods on millions of innocent people…while those who were still free – did NOTHING! That same evil exists in our country today & has great plans for the American people. You can find out for yourself: Google or go on YouTube… Look up: OPERATION PAPERCLIP & MKULTRA. You will be amazed at the evil that has captivated the whole nation. Instead of saying we went through the “Great Depression,” we really should call it – “The Great Deception!” Yes, we most definately should be in politics. Jesus always taught on being “a good steward” in various parables. The Lord God put man in charge of the earth & all that dwelt in it, to rule & reign over it.(Genesis 1:26-31) Would you allow “Hitler” to run your household & raise your children? Has not (God) given YOU that responsibility? Jesus was involved in everything when He walked on this sod. I guess you forgot about Him making a whip of cords & turning over tables in the temple, creating quite a stir! Breaking religious laws & healing people on the Sabbath day. Remember the coin that was fetched in the fish’s mouth in order to pay their taxes? He altered the storm, caused the waves to be still, so he controlled the weather! He defied gravity, by walking on the water! I can’t think of anything Jesus wasn’t involved in. He said we would do greater things, because He was going to the Father! People LOVED being around Him, so I suppose He was quite an enjoyable person to be with. Children loved Him. He must have been fascinating. Love was the magnet that drew people to Him. That is how we should be! Moses was chosen by God to lead the Hebrew people to their promised land. God chose him because he was a righteous man & feared the Lord. “WHEN THE RIGHTEOUS ARE IN AUTHORITY, THE PEOPLE REJOICE: BUT WHEN THE WICKED RULES, THE PEOPLE MOURN.” (Proverbs 29:2) Happy is the people, whose God is the Lord! (Psalm 144:15) God, please bless America again.

      • jeanelane

        My oh my, are you feisty, Jeri! Please tell me, when did Jesus engaged the Romans (the political system of the day)? As far as I remember reading, he was all about ordinary folk and the religious hierarchy. He was all about DOING good, not fighting. The two instances of driving the money changers out of the temple are two isolated instances in 3 or more years of ministry. And that was against religious folk, not political. The more you fight, the more you drive people away from Christ, not to him. And if you drive people away from Christ, you are driving them to Satan. I don’t think you will be rewarded in a good way for this.
        “A gentle answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger.”
        Proverbs 15:1-3
        “Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,”
        1 Peter 3:15-16

  • dvanilla

    Republicans is the reason our economy has gone down. Republicans are trying to keep us in the same exact shape of that economy. The democrates are trying to get us out. Do you know what the republicans are saying, “we are going to block everything they will try and do.” And they have done just that our country could have been on track by now. And republicans send out emails asking if we thing Obama is the reason for our economy not recovering. No repulicans you are the reason our economy has not recovered as usual.

  • msh

    EVIL REPUBLICANS. OBAMA OUR SAVIOR HAS CERTAINLY HAS TRIED GETTING US OUT OF THIS MESS BUT THOSE EVIL REPUBLICANS HAVENT LET HIM. AND REPUBLICANS ARE RACIST FOR OPPOSING HIM AND NOT AGREEING WITH HIM. I JUST KNOW IF THE REPUBLICANS WOULD LET HIM ID HAVE FREE HOUSING FREE MEDICAL, A FREE CAR,FREE FOOD, ALL MY PROBLEMS WOULD BE SOLVED WHETHER I HAD A JOB OR NOT.

  • http://n.a. Paul

    Romney is a RINO (Republican In Name Only). The Dem’s like him the best of the top 3 Repub’s. The Dem’s hate Cane because he has left the plantation of the Dem’s bankrupt ideas and values. Cane looks like the best option to run in 2012. Cane is living proof that a successful black man can shine way above the half breed community organizer now soiling our country and the presidents seat. A solid conservative V.P. and the removal of half of congress will go a long ways in plugging the holes in America’s sinking ship. It’s time to elect a better puppet and a better group in congress. I have no expectation that union people and PC’ers will vote for real change next year. They are just to selfish and would rather see the country fold upon itself than to compromise much in order to get America back onto stable financial ground again. Those who felt guilty about being white and the other wishful thinkers in the 2008 election won’t likely be so easially fooled next year. I for one am looking forward to hearing the Dem race baters and Dem racists come unglued this next year. They will shine like the real racist America hating turds that they really are. Save your money for your own needs. Let the foolish ones send money to their party of choice and let the pissing back and forth happen on someone else’s tab. Cheers!

  • Ron In Texas

    If Mitt Boy Romney is elected, at least we can have 6 to 10 wifes each.I just don’t think we need to have a wishy,washy pres. again!!Saying what needs to be said just to get elected!!And we’ve seen what that means in the last Three years!!!! What we need is a phrase from a John Wayne Movie”True Grit” in a canidate!!!With obamas lame stream media, the new “Acorn”,Black panthers, Prisioners,homeless Vagabons and dead people voting we need strong support for a republican presidentual canidate!!Is Texas the only state that must have and I.D. and can only vote in their district? I know a lot of abuse was in the northern states that can vote in all of the citys primarys and even go to other states by the bus loads to vote!!This sounds like a policy in some states to go along with cheating to canidates that the poll members want to win the presidency, not in acordance with the FAIR VOTEING ACT!!And are we going to STAND BY AGAIN and let the Black Panthers stand outside voting polls and beat off people that want to vote for the opposing canidate????????? We have about a year to change America, and this time the Change will be great!!!

  • http://liberyalearts john p.

    RON PAUL IS GOOD BUT HE IS TO OLD. MITT ROMNEY IS OK BUT HE SOUNDS LIKE A CAR SALESMAN .BUT I’M FOR HERMAN CAIN HE LIKES THE CONSTITUTION AND HE WOULD BE THE ONE TO BRING AMERICA BACK TO WHERE IT SHOULD BE.NO BIG GOVERNMENT.AND PUT PEOPLE BACK TO WORK.

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