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Exploiting A Tragedy To Take Your Rights

August 6, 2012 by  

Exploiting A Tragedy To Take Your Rights
PHOTOS.COM
Had it not been for our right to bear arms, our country would have never developed into the successful and free land that it is today.

I think the shootings that happened in Aurora, Colo., were tragic. It is always inexcusable to take the lives of innocent people.

What’s also inexcusable is to use those lost lives for political gain, which is what we’re probably going to see over the next few weeks.

Big Brother likes to use these instances as an “example” of why they should take away our guns.

I happen to think that if someone in that audience had a concealed carry license and chose to carry that evening, perhaps more lives could have been saved.

The media have been dying to get even with guns rights advocates and, tragically, they were given that opportunity.

You may recall just before the Batman tragedy, a 71-year-old man saved about a dozen lives in an Internet cafe by using his legally carried weapon to fire at gun-wielding criminals.

He was heralded as a hero. Not only was this man brave, but he showed us all why it’s important to have the right to bear arms.

Now, we have the criminal use of a weapon, and it’s getting even more media coverage. But why would we not give as much attention to a hero with a gun as we do when a villain has a gun?

The media just aren’t fans of guns. And, ever since I can remember, we have been brainwashed to think that guns are evil and wrong and terrible things.

Had it not been for our right to bear arms, our country would have never developed into the successful and free land that it is today.

Guns and weapons are what brought us freedom, and they are what will allow us to protect ourselves if ever that freedom is threatened again.

Gun owners are some of the more responsible citizens in this Nation. They own the weapons for collecting, hunting and self-defense; why shouldn’t I feel safe?

One of the main missions of the National Rifle Association is to promote safe gun use, which means its members are considerably different than some nutcase who opens fire in a movie.

I find it interesting that almost everyone has been trained to have negative feelings toward guns and gun ownership and that those negative feelings have really come from media bias.

People stereotype gun owners as idiots and rednecks. They say that they have no idea what they’re doing with their weapons and that they cause more harm than good by simply owning something with which to protect themselves.

This is an example of the media “brainwashing” us.

Do you think not?

Then try to name one single television character who isn’t a police officer or a “bad guy” who openly carries a gun. Don’t let this take up more of your time then necessary. You can’t.

I remember when I was younger watching a “Simpsons” episode during which Homer decided to buy a gun. He used that gun for everything from opening a beer to changing the channel on the television. He was shooting it everywhere and at everything, destroying his house and neighborhood until we were all taught the lesson that guns are bad.

I hate to admit it, but I also watched “Mighty Morphin’ Power Rangers” as a kid. I expressly remember being confused as to why they wouldn’t use their guns in defense when monsters were attacking them. I know that sounds silly, but think about it: They openly carried guns and were shot at by crazy monsters, but they rarely — if ever — used their guns. I asked my parents why this was; they never had an answer for me.

Why do I bring up those examples? Because they’re great examples of how we are being trained by the media to be afraid of and not want to use guns.

Think about what Americans are presented on television and in movies. Guns are never used in a positive way unless it’s a rare hunting show or law enforcement is handling them. Even then, we see officers shy away from guns or get admonished if their guns are fired.

Some of you may even be familiar with the television show “Flashpoint,” about a tactical team that takes out criminals via sniper rifle and other methods of gun use. On its face, the show appears to shed positive light on gun ownership, but that is not the case.

“Flashpoint” cast member David Paetkau said the show “tries to capture the human element involved in policing and discusses how some officers end up with emotional baggage and suffering with mental illnesses like post traumatic stress disorder.”

See? Show business tells us yet again that if you use a gun, you are going to be mentally ill or have some sort of issue.

We need to realize that guns aren’t bad. They make a positive difference in our society. Sure, criminals use them to rob stores and commit murder; but police and military personnel use them to save and protect lives.

Our families use guns to hunt for the food that we eat and even protect our homes when necessary.

How soon we are forced to forget what good guns can do for us after one disgusting individual uses them for wrong.

I want you to pay attention to all the negativity that is going to be surrounding guns up until the election. Don’t be influenced by people who want to take your rights away by any means necessary — even exploiting tragedy.

And, as always, be smarter than they think you are.

–Tim Young

Tim Young

is the Managing Editor at Absolute Rights and has been featured on Fox News, Forbes, and The London Daily Telegraph. You can see Tim's latest work by clicking here.

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  • http://www.facebook.com/gregbeaty Greg T Beaty

    No new gun laws… I do not need government protection, I can protect myself thank you. Every new law bites away at my civil liberty. STOP PLEASE. Government has one job and that is to protect the boarders the citizenry can protect the own, trust me when I say we can and we can do it well.

    • Robert Smith

      From the article: “I happen to think that if someone in that audience had a concealed carry license and chose to carry that evening, perhaps more lives could have been saved.”

      Nope. The perp was wearing body armor.

      Rob

      • Zed

        The day after the Aurora event, I found out that Colorado is a concealed carry state but that AMC has a policy against firearms on their property.
        I’d love to ask AMC how that policy is working out for them,

      • dan

        Body armor is like a fully automatic weapon…it induces unmerited confidence.

      • wandamurline

        A COUPLE OF 40 TO 38 SHOTS TO THE CHEST WOULD NOT HAVE K I L L E D THIS GUY, BUT IT WOULD HAVE PUT HIM ON HIS AZZ, AND THEN THE AUDIENCE COULD HAVE CONTAINED HIM. VESTS DON’T KEEP HIM FROM GETTING SHOT AND THE VOLUME OF THE BULLETT HITTING HIM WOULD HAVE KNOCKED HIM DOWN.

      • Fred

        NO, he was not. Yet another example of media misrepresentation. He was wearing a rather ominous looking “tactical vest” covered in pockets, this vest did not contain any bullet-resistant armor ! The media repeats key words until they succeed in convincing people of falsehoods.

      • FreedomFighter

        Is Sikh Temple Shooting Staged To Ban Guns? Evidence Mounting!

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4EpZ-qJ-oE&feature=em-uploademail

        These are all staged events to disarm Americans, we must be disarmed for the NWO to control us.

        Laus Deo
        SEmper Fi

      • Oneguess

        It’s easy for the media to fool persons like “Rob”…

      • Jon

        It is a fact that in every murder case but one in the United States since 1956 which involved more than three victims, they were carried out in locations that restricted or prohibited law-abiding citizens from being armed. Wolves only attack sheep where sheepdogs are not allowed. We’ll never know if an armed citizen or two could have stopped the outrage in Aurora; but the overwhelming evidence indicates that if the movie goers had access to weapons, the perp would have found an easier target.

      • http://azcowboy756500.wordpress.com azcowboy756500

        good gun control is hitting where you aim!!!!!if an armed citizen had been there who practiced with his/her weapon on a regular basis i am sure they could have taken the gunman out

      • Richard

        Robert, do you think that his body armor would stop a .50 Cal round from a S&W model 500? I doubt it. Is that weapon overkill? Maybe, but it sure would have been handy to have when the idiot started his shooting spree.

      • chamuiel

        Robert, YES! A head shot would have taken the perp out. Also there are rounds that would have gone through his “armor” as you call it. Also several .45 cal rounds directly to his “armor” would more than like knocked him off his feet and allowed several people to grab him and subdue him. Even if the rounds do not penetrate they do bruise and hurt. By your very naive statement, it is obvious you know nothing about guns.

      • http://www.facebook.com/gregbeaty Greg T Beaty

        Body armor will only stop the bullet from killing one, that all and that assuming it not a head shot. If every person would carry a gun we would have zero crime.

      • Joey Biden

        Body armor or not, three well placed .45 rounds would have put him on his back and he would have a very hard time getting back to his feet.

      • JeffH

        Robert, that is pure MSM misinformation and media BS…which fits for you.

        In the first couple of days after shooting, we all read media reports about how heavily armored he was, and gun control advocates are using this to claim that a CCW holder would not have made a difference. This is baloney.

        Holmes was not wearing a ballistic vest. He was wearing a Blackhawk Urban Assault Vest which is not bullet proof or armored…of course, the media doesn’t know the difference and neither do you. Here is a photo of the sales order showing the tactical gear purchased by James Holmes.
        http://www.9news.com/news/photo-gallery.aspx?storyid=279073

      • JeffH

        The exact Blackhawk Urban Assault Vest from TacticalGear.com that was purchase by Holmes.
        http://tacticalgear.com/blackhawk-urban-assault-vest

        Bottom line is a CCW holder, if they had a shot at him, could have stopped this massacre with center mass hits. No need for a more difficult headshot.

        So the next time you hear or read someone spread this “heavy armor” garbage, set them straight.

      • Brad J.

        That’s why you aim at other parts of the body that aren’t protected by body armor.

      • Jimmy The Greek

        @ Chamuel Get busted with armor piercing rounds in a pistol and let me know how you like your new home in the jail house .

      • B rian

        Unfortunately rob…. Even with body armor….. If one person could have popped this guy with a .45 hollow point 1 time….. The “joker” would have felt the impact of 400-700 pounds of force hitting him in the chest…… Being all powerful and in control only works when your the only guy with the gun…..

        When you get 400-700 pounds of force in your chest….. Mike Tyson’s opponents know what that is like. The “joker” didn’t bring a pea-shooter to commit the crime….. And he definately would have thought about his own mortality if he recieved 1 thump from a law abiding citizen!

      • jerry

        I would have shot the punkass in the face

      • Dennis

        A tactical vest is not body armor.Just sayin

      • Jeff

        If only a Super hero had been in the audience. Superman, Ahnold, Bruce Willis. Or just a really good director to direct the scene properly. It’s real life people, not a movie. In the movies, any of you nitwits could have stopped him. In real life, it’s a little tougher.

      • i&etechie

        All body armour does is prevent projectile penetration, it s alot like getting a sledge hammer blow to the body. Do it 2 or 5 times and that person will be in pain, and most likely distracted. There is no known effective head armour. A sledge hammer blow on your noggin, will at the least knock you out.

      • Jibbs

        Perhaps a .45 to the knee cap or a head shot would have ended it.

      • http://stillguns7938@yahoo.com Jack Evans

        Yes, you’re correct. Howev er,as happened in the now west hollywood bank robbery, theres still some parts of the body, that aren’t covered, and, therefore vulnerable. I would hope that anyone ther , who was licensed CHL, and had had a gun with them, would also have had enough range time to make a shot in the areas that were unprotected, and it would be all academic from that point.

      • Fearfull Ralph

        No, Dan, if the subject is wearing body armor we are trained to go for a head shot which pretty much guarantees not having to have an expensive trial.

      • StGabes

        Not to mention you were not allowed to carry in the movie theater, Good law abiding citizens would not break the laws…

      • gunsrule,commiesdrool

        Hey, Rob, You could shoot him in the head!But maybe heads will be outlawed!

    • Ron r

      What is even worse than the shootings in Aurora is the fear mongering by this author. I find it very distasteful that it would be implied by some that the shootings were staged in order to get gun laws enacted.

      • Ron r

        BTW I assume we should expect this from someone with ties to Fixed News

      • eddie47d

        Those on the right also have their media outlets spreading false conspiracy stories and weaving them into the facts. Thanks for pointing that out Ron.

      • FreedomFighter

        They are staged, the Swiss have machine gun in almost every home… not happening there, the powers want you disarmed, do you really believe that they would not hesitate to kill a few people to obtain there goals?

        Total Gun Ban Coming!
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sSF-x-DG-I&feature=em-uploademail

        Many have seen this coming for months and said so, the evil ones in and behid government is executing a plan, step by step.

        Laus Deo
        Semper Fi

      • Oneguess

        You and “Rob” should hook up.

      • eddie47d

        For those of you who don’t already know those Swiss weapons are severely restricted by the government and are used for civil defense. They know where each and every weapon is located so there is a lot of smoke being blown over that issue.

      • FreedomFighter

        Sikh Shooting Patsy Was Army PSY-OP Officer!

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D53PbC6qiYw&feature=em-uploademail

        “This is a textbook drill where you shoot the patsy! This is off the chart in your face.”

        Laus Deo
        Semper Fi

      • http://www.facebook.com/gregbeaty Greg T Beaty

        What you can not stand the truth…

      • http://boblivingstonpl.wordpress.com Bob Livingston

        Dear Ron r,

        You write: ” I find it very distasteful that it would be implied by some that the shootings were staged in order to get gun laws enacted.” I have written about you.
        http://personalliberty.com/2012/05/14/the-lies-youre-told/
        http://personalliberty.com/2011/12/28/confusion/
        http://personalliberty.com/2011/10/10/cognitive-dissonance/
        http://personalliberty.com/2011/11/21/10-certainties/

        Best wishes,
        Bob

      • jt

        Oh please. Fear mongering is the long-time stock in trade for the anti-liberty, big-government crowd. Far left loons like yourself are engaged in a perpetual campaign to turn a center-right nation into a left wing utopia by convincing them that danger and certain death are lurking around every corner, and that only an all-powerful government can save them.

        This is the main thrust of the false notion that we all must fear our neighbor because they might own a big, scary, deadly gun, and that the only way to make us all “safe” is to make those big scary guns illegal for all but police and military (in other words, those who take orders from government officials).

        It makes no sense to render the entire public population defenseless in the face of a relative few nutcases, and expect that a relative few law enforcement officers can be everywhere to provide personal protection for every man, woman, and child in the nation. This is the height of folly. The courts know this, and have ruled in numerous instances that law enforcement is under no strict obligation involving the protection of the individual, and is not accountable in a failure to do so.

        Your personal safety and protection of your family are a choice, but also a solemn obligation in the maintenance of a free society. Anyone who would surrender that choice in order to pass that obligation on to someone else is both short-sighted and foolish.

      • vanguard7

        Ron r, who knows if this was some “false flag” event staged by our gov’t in attempt to get our guns taken away. The fact is, there are way too many inconsistencies between the shooter and the wherewithall/knowledge to carry out this massacre that just don’t add up unless one considers it may have been a gov’t sponsored attack. Corrupt/Tyrannical Governments throughout history have been known to attack their own people in an attempt to get otherwise unpopular legislation passed. And in just about every case where a Fascist/Socialist/Marxist/Communist owned government has succeeded in depriving their citizenry of their weapons (and ability form any resistance) there have also been mass murders/slaughters of those whose political ideals posed the greatest threat to the ones in power. Don’t be so naive! The most disconcerting statement to come out of the Aurora shooting was made by the police when they revealed (to paraphrase here) “the sophistication of the explosive devices found in his apartment were of such a complex nature they had never seen before.” Where did Holmes get the training or learn how to design and build such complex devices? Where did he get all funds he would have needed to amass to acquire the arsenal he had? How does a supposedly brilliant mind whose world was his oyster suddenly snap and now displays such an empty shell in the public eye? Given the fact that he was discovered to have been working under Federal grant monies suspected to be connected to the ultra-secret mind control program known as MK-Ultra and the fact that he was in a field dealing with how the mind works/functions, it lends credence to all the speculation of some gov’t conspiracy surrounding this tragedy. Let us also not forget that: 1. A letter or memo had been released (I suspect inadvertantly) by the Dept. of Homeland Security or similar agency back in April or May that spoke of an expected event identical to the Aurora massacre but was quickly pulled down from the net and hidden, and 2. This tragedy “just happened” to occur only a few days before Obama was due to sign the U.N.’s Arms Treaty. It happened late in the week which could also help to generate support for the Treaty’s signature while still providing cover for the White House to not have any press releases that could have potential to derail the Treaty instead.
        I’m sorry if you disagree with me but there are just toooooo many coincidences here and toooooo many inconsistencies with this tragedy for me, at least, to simply accept it as the act of one “sole” individual who suddenly snapped all on his own. Until irrefuteably proven otherwise, I will continue to keep an open mind and consider other explanations.

      • gunsrule,commiesdrool

        Gee Ron r,This smells like Fast and Furious!!! No way would the Bubbament stage this. Smoke another one!Why don’t you and Eddy 47 get married!!!

    • PELICAN1001

      SEPT 7, 2008 MEET THE PRESS

      Yes, he told us in advance what he planned to do. Few were listening.
      The following is a narrative taken from a 2008 Sunday morning televised “Meet The Press’.
      From Sunday’s 07 Sept. 2008 11:48:04 EST, Televised “Meet the Press” THE THEN Senator Obama was asked about his stance on the American Flag.
      General Bill Gann’ USAF (ret.) asked Obama to explain WHY he doesn’t follow protocol when the National Anthem is played.
      The General stated to Obama that according to the United States Code, Title 36, Chapter 10, Sec. 171…
      During rendition of the national anthem, when the flag is displayed, all present (except those in uniform) are expected to stand at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart. Or, at the very least, “Stand and Face It”.
      NOW GET THIS !!
      ‘Senator ?Obama replied:
      “As I’ve said about the flag pin, I don’t want to be perceived as taking sides”. “There are a lot of people in the world to whom the American flag is a symbol of oppression..” “The anthem itself conveys a war-like message. You know, the bombs bursting in air and all that sort of thing.”
      (ARE YOU READY FOR THIS???)
      Obama continued: “The National Anthem should be ‘swapped’ for something less parochial and less bellicose. I like the song ‘I’d Like To Teach the World To Sing’. If that were our anthem, then, I might salute it. In my opinion, we should consider reinventing our National Anthem as well as ‘redesign’ our Flag to better offer our enemies hope and love. It’s my intention, if elected, to disarm America to the level of acceptance to our Middle East Brethren. If we, as a Nation of warring people, conduct ourselves like the nations of Islam, where peace prevails – - – perhaps a state or period of mutual accord could exist between our governments ……”
      When I become President, I will seek a pact of agreement to end hostilities between those who have been at war or in a state of enmity, and a freedom from disquieting oppressive thoughts. We as a Nation, have placed upon the nations of Islam, an unfair injusticewhich is WHY my wife disrespects the Flag and she and I have attended several flag burning ceremonies in the past”.
      “Of course now, I have found myself about to become the President of the United States and I have put my hatred aside. I will use my power to bring CHANGE to this Nation, and offer the people a new path. My wife and I look forward to becoming our Country’s First black Family. Indeed,CHANGE is about to overwhelm the United States of America ”
      WHAAAAAAAT, the **** is that???
      Yes, you read it right.
      I, for one, am speechless!!!

      Dale Lindsborg , Washington Post
      http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20120424170732AAlM1hK

      EVERYONE IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA NEEDS
      TO READ THIS, KEEP IT GOING ! !
      SAVE AMERICA BEFORE IT’S TOO LATE ! !

      • HH

        I was listening, but a whole bunch of our voters weren’t and they STILL don’t understand what it is he’s trying to do to our country!

    • ron . r

      First of all some give the so called founding fathers way too much credit for being smart. most would agree that time has a way of makinging things better. The founding fathers were talking about muskets. I am sure they had no ideal that wepons would evolve to what they are today. BTW, where is it in the constitution that says you cannot bare arms because you are a felon?? By some accounts A. Jackson was a felon, and no one took his gun.

      • http://www.facebook.com/gregbeaty Greg T Beaty

        There are already laws that stop felons from owning guns.

  • TOCB

    We have people who protect us from gunmen who attempt to use military grade weapons to kill innocent people. We call them policemen. The few times individuals with guns have prevented gunmen who are trying to kill innocent people have actually prevented that from happening don’t justify our soceity giving access to military grade weapons to individuals who are not a member of a state sponsered citizens militia, as the second amendment clearly states that, “A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.”

    Although it may be disireable for some people to preserve the tradition of unregulated individual gun ownership in this country, contrary to popular belief, it is NOT a constitutional right!

    • JC

      Wow TOCB,,,you couldn’t possibly be more “out to lunch”. The Police protect us? Since when? The Police are the mop up crew and that’s about it. They don’t protect anybody…ever. And why in hell shouldn’t I have an AK-47 or an Armalite? If it comes down to protecting my Family, my State, my Nation…I’ll want to be as helpful and effective as I can possibly be.
      And I have one question about the tragic occasions when some nut goes on a killing spree…why wasn’t anybody shooting back? Oh yeah! Because the attacks usually occur in “gun free” zones…more accurately described as “criminal safe zones”.
      TOCB, you can entrust your life to the protection of the Police and your nations Liberties to the discretion of your government if you like…that’s your choice. But you don’t get to make that choice for me.

      • Megashellac

        Also, if the police were capable of protecting us, this horrible event should have never happened.

      • OLD MAN

        WHEN SECONDS COUNT LAW ENFORCEMENT IS ONLY MINUTES AWAY…………..

    • http://personalliberty polmutant

      do not know what country or brai wash you have. but my guns have saved me on more than 1 occaision. there were no police. maybe you should leave, or learn to to read the constitution.

    • Ted Crawford

      Would that. that were the case, TCOB ! Saddly, the Police aren’t psychic! This is in no way ment to disparage the Police Force! They do a very good job, once they become aware of the incident, like Colorado and this weekend in Iowa, but, as in both cases, the initial victums were defenceless and many died. Only an Armed and trained person can possibly prevent the initial incident and protect themselves or others !

    • Mike

      You might want to educate yourself a little bit before you start telling people what are and are not rights. First the right to keep and bear arms absolutely is a right! As far as your reference to a “well regulated militia” by definition a militia is a group of citizen soldiers
      “NOT SUBJECT TO GOVERNMENT AUTHORITY”. If you choose to be a sheep in a world full of wolves that’s on you, but you do not decide for the rest of us!

    • HH

      Really TOCB? “a member of a state sponsered citizens militia”? The militia spoken of in the 2nd amendment is NOT state sponsored, it’s a CITIZENS organized militia to overcome an oppressive STATE or FEDERAL government! A “state” sponsored militia would be like the fox guarding the hen house!

    • eddie47d

      Where does the brainwashing really come from.Who really exploits these tragedies? Take a look in the mirror and see what really happens after each and every assault on human life. Gun deaths are down in America yet mass shootings are up and are becoming the norm in solving someones frustrations. Who benefits from these events and exploits them? Weapons dealers and the NRA. each and every time. That hasn’t changed in 20 years and neither of those entities have made any effort to stop these mass killings from occuring. More guns may equal more personal safety but it also means easier acess to weapons for those hell bent on committing that carnage. The flow of weapons has done nothing to stop these tragedies but only exacerbates them. Every American has the right to defend themselves yet we don’t need the seige mentality that is exploited by pro gun groups either.We don’t need them telling us we are un-American if we don’t own a gun or have a concealled carry permit.We don’t need anyone telling us we are commies,traitors who endorse nazism by the extreme right wing. Yes some of you exploit every single tragedy by harrassing and intimadating anyone who doesn’t share your view and you know it. We don’t need the William Pearce’s telling victims that they were cowards for not carrying a weapon. We don’t need Dudley

      • eddie47d

        Continued: Brown from GOA picketing outside the Columbine funerals insulting the grieving parents and community. Yes the pro gun groups push their agenda and despicable behavior after every killing. They proclaim their vison loudly yet the easy availability to the weapons that the perpetrators use only increases. So their “moral” high ground is deafening and deadly!

      • Joey Biden

        eddie as always the idiot.

      • Jimmy The Greek

        Eddie47d i own a 18 wheeler i bet i could kill just as many or more then that boy in aurora

      • eddie47d

        I reckon it is whatever pleases you for that is the American way. That person would then be the “idiot”.

      • HH

        @ eddie46d……….. the “d” stands for “dunce”

        “Yes the pro gun groups push their agenda and despicable behavior after every killing.”

        eddie you idiot! It’s the ANTI gun whore-mongers who demand to push more gun control upon law abiding citizens after every killing! You think backwards, the law abiding citizens are just trying to keep their God given right to self protection from being taken away by nut case retards like you!

    • Fred

      I certainly hope you don’t have a wife or children relying on you to protect them when you pull out your AIR-HORN ! ……..idiot

      • Daveh234

        Eddie has a good point. The fact is the gun lobby is whining that new laws are on their way….buy now before we have our balls cut off!
        If the gun used at the theatre was obtained legally, as it seems it was, was there any paper trail? He was under psychiatric treatment before he quit school, but if that was made part of a licensing of the weapon, would that info really have come out?
        Automatic weapons are not nearly as accurate as rifles or handguns just more volume of bullets sprayed in a general area.
        I could take down someone one on one with a single shot weapon all other things being equal. Not a sharpshooter but pretty accurate.

    • chester

      TOCB. exactly what military grade weapon was used in this shooting? That AR-15 is NOT milsped at all. Granted, it is what the M-16 was based on, and some of the parts ARE interchangeable, but that does not make it military grade at all. From what I have seen and read on this, and sorry guys, don’t pay a lot of attention to all the mainstream stuff, this guy had the same things a lot of other people have or can get. Oh, by the way, he had a fully civilian twelve gauge shotgun as well, and that could have caused far more damage than the little 223 rifle he carried. About the only things he had that might have been military grade were the gasmask, available over the counter in quite a few places, and the tactical/bulletproof vest. EVERYYHING he carried was legallly available to him, and to you, if you want them. Now if you want to disarm the world, have at it, but am afraid some of these people will remove your hand and arm if you try to take their weapons of choice, or any other weapons they may happen to own. Of course, once you get all the guns, next will be bows and arrows, swords, and, finally clubs and rocks. Even with all those gone, people still have their hands and feet, teeth, and heads. If someone is bound to cause destruction, the weapon he or she uses does not matter as much as the fact that decision was made.

      • eddie47d

        Sitting on your hands and allowing the world to proliferate it’s weaponry hasn’t solved a thing either and that is true since the beginning of time. If someone has a bow and arrow the next guy will outdo him with a pistol and so forth. We don’t need more weapons of destruction but enough people who say it hasn’t worked. It has to be a collective decision within each and every country and if not it won’t work. Since the USA is involved in the proliferation of weaponry and most of its present wars shouldn’t we be the ones to spearhead a reverse course. Since we have a nation with the largest domestic gun violence shouldn’t we be the ones to put a halt to it. We are hardly the shining example on the hill to the world anymore or even domestically.

      • Fred

        “we have a nation with the largest domestic gun violence” …… really ?!?!?!
        Where do you come up with this crap Eddie ? Maybe in one or two Cities where it is illegal for law abiding citizens to own guns but per capita ? as a nation ?
        Yet another one of your ridiculous assertions !

      • eddie47d

        That is fairly well documented Fred. Now politely check on gun deaths in America vs other countries.

      • Fred

        How about you go educate yourself Eddie, it will save bandwidth. Start here:
        http://www.gunfacts.info/pdfs/gun-facts/6.1/gun_facts_6_1_screen.pdf

    • chamuiel

      You are funny. Police protect us. Police show up after the crime has been committed and decide whom to pin the blame on. There were police officers outside the theater in Aurora. They heard the shots inside and called for help. The Police caught the perp in a back parking lot. Only then did the Police enter the theater to protect anyone. If you wait for the Police to protect you, you are dead.

      • Jimmy The Greek

        I don’t trust the police with guns only the people should be armed the reason the police are so pushy are because they are armed . i would like to see our police be like police in England or Australia

    • TML

      TOCB says “We have people who protect us from gunmen who attempt to use military grade weapons to kill innocent people. We call them policemen.”

      The police cannot protect you… ask them, they will tell you so. And it might interest you to know that the so-called military grade weapon wasn’t even used.

      TOCB says, “The few times individuals with guns have prevented gunmen who are trying to kill innocent people have actually prevented that from happening don’t justify our soceity giving access to military grade weapons to individuals who are not a member of a state sponsered citizens militia,”

      There are more than just a few times individuals prevent gunmen from carrying out their crimes, they are just rarely reported on the news.

      TOCB says, “the tradition of unregulated individual gun ownership in this country, contrary to popular belief, it is NOT a constitutional right!”

      Contrary to the belief of some; SCOTUS District of Columbia v. Heller, “the Second Amendment protects a personal right to keep and bear arms for lawful purposes…”

      • jt

        “the Second Amendment protects a personal right to keep and bear arms for lawful purposes…

        THANK YOU! I’m so glad that you quoted the decision directly. The Second Amendment does, indeed PROTECT that right. It does not GRANT that right.

        This is very important, because it means that THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS does not come from the state. It is a natural human right, independent of any ruling body, and is therefore NOT SUBJECT to the rule of ANY government.

        This means that NO GOVERNMENT BODY HAS THE AUTHORITY to INFRINGE on the right of private citizens to keep and BEAR arms. PERIOD!

        • Jeff

          Yes, it’s in the New Testament’s “Sermon in the Gun Shop.”

    • jt

      If it’s state-sponsored, then it’s NOT a militia.

      Militia, does not mean a standing army, or regular military under government authority.

      Stop acting as though you know something, when you clearly don’t.

      And BTW, the Second Amendment does not grant the right of private citizens to keep and bear arms. What it does MUCH MORE profound. It recognizes that as a natural human right which pre-exists the Constitution, and SPECIFICALLY PROHIBITS any government body from infringing that right.

      That means that the RKBA does NOT come from the government, and as such, cannot be “revoked” or suspended by the government.

      So, the second Amendment is not about “giving” a right to the individual. It is about protecting a natural right from government that HAS NO AUTHORITY to take it away. This is what makes the Second Amendment a cornerstone of limited government and a free society, even more so important than the First Amendment.

      • http://www.facebook.com/gregbeaty Greg T Beaty

        Thank you sir…

    • JeffH

      TOCB, none of the weapons used by Holmes were “military grade” weapons…Not the Glock, the semi-auto AR-15 or the pump shotgun.

    • vanguard7

      Whoa there TOCB. You really don’t get the Constitution at all do you? Especially the 2nd amendment. If you take the time to study it you should clearly take away from it that it was included to ensure the “people” had not only the ability to keep and bear arms but also the duty to do so in the event our country were to come under threat from despots and other nations in the future. The whole concept of a “militia” is an “Armed Citizenry” able to protect and defend their country. It’s people like you who are the real threat to our great Nation and those rights we hold so dear as defined under the Bill of Rights and the Constitution. Get a clue before you go off on one of your half-baked rants.

  • Alex

    The Conservative lives a life consumed by fear, bewildered and adamantly opposed to things outside his own life experience—Fire, the Wheel, Ideas. The Progressive lives a life of of hope and curiosity, discarding relics as deemed fit—War, Greed, Slavery. The Fright Wing cannot conceive of a world without guns….

    • JC

      In a world where everyone has a lollipop and loves each other…where critical thinking and logical conclusions are unheard of and we all just hug and hug and hug all day… ;-)

      • Alex

        Violence fits into your world because you need it to validate your existence.

        When Homo Sapiens came along, there were still Homo Erectus around. Like your view of Progressives, Homo Erectus thought Homo Sapiens were nuts. Your condescending vision of a “lollipop world” aside, unless you mature as a human you will simply be a dinosaur stuck in the mud, an Early Man terrified of Fire (and Science and Civility….).

        • http://www.facebook.com/gregbeaty Greg T Beaty

          Alex you writings make no sense, because your writing makes no sense it must not be true. Because the words you write are not true why would anyone believe what you write?

      • JC

        Violence does not fit into my world. nor does it validate anything other than my right to stop violence dead in its tracks, should it visit itself upon me or my family….now go back to petting kitty’s or whatever it is you do to amuse yourself in your fluffy little world.

      • JC

        Oh come on now Alex…are you actually fantasizing that you know what early neanderthal man thought of things? Another credible and logical post…from yet another liberal fantasy land idiot…

      • eddie47d

        No one is denying your Second Amendment right to defend your self and family JC and you may be a very responsible person. Yet you don’t seem to have any responsibility to stop these extreme events either. If there are 20 of these “events” each year obviously you don’t have a clear cut answer either. This is a national problem not some isolated individual problem.More weapons bought and sold in America has not stopped a one of these massacres but has only increased them. Having every man woman or child being armed won’t stop them from happening so your side does an awful lot of wishful thinking too. (fluffery). Where will you start to find solutions? Reopen more mental health institutes, limit and monitor who buys weapons and ammo,stop Hollywood from producing phony false flag movies where killings are glorified and hyped up? Now if more people have weapons on the street who is to know which one is the good guy and whom is the perp out to commit an act of violence. More guns don’t necessary make things safer but more confusing in who should be shooting whom.

      • chester

        Alex, the only thing violence validates is violence. Many times the only reason for violence is to take something you have no right to in the first place, but violence can NOT be defended against by words, hugs,and kisses. It takes a bit of violence to defend against violence, like it or not. Many times, it is not violence per se that is the defense, but the clear and present fact that one is capable of BEING violent.

      • Oneguess

        eddie47d, you should hook up with Alex…

      • chester

        Eddy, if guns were not readily available, they would still be available, and guaranteed the bad guys would have them, How many National Guard armories have been broken into over the past ten years or so, and most,if not all, of the firearms stolen? Will guarantee you those were NOT sold for scrap metal, as there is a lot of far easier to obtain, and dispose of metal than those guns. Now, knowing they weren’t scrapped, and the good guys don’t have them, who do you suppose does have them? Surely it couldn’t be some of the nasty guys who want what you have without paying for it, could it? But, back to the topic at hand, how hard is it to obtain explosives that aren’t quite as concentrated as dynamite? Black powder in its various forms is not all that hard to get, and neither is acetylene gas, or propane, for that matter. All of those will make a most satisfying bang if used to do so, and can be quite deadly if set up to do that.

      • JC

        Eddie you idiot! How would I have any responsibility to stop an event thousands of miles away from me? If were in that theater with a gun..THEN I would have some responsibilty.
        But the theater says no guns so criminal have free run of the place right? My God, but you are a stupid man…

      • eddie47d

        Go for the name calling only proves your fallibility JC. Since these shootings happen all over our nation it is a national issue. With your flaming diatribes I personally wouldn’t trust you anywhere including a movie theater.

      • chamuiel

        And give flowers to each other. Yep! That is the world Liberals live in.

      • JC

        Eddie you idiot! I don’t care what you trust. I’ll follow the Constitution and moral values…and you can keep goose stepping around in your basement. have a nice day “Kamrade”.

      • TML

        eddie47d says, “No one is denying your Second Amendment right to defend your self and family JC and you may be a very responsible person. Yet you don’t seem to have any responsibility to stop these extreme events either.”

        In order not to deny 2nd Amendment rights to himself, and his fellow countrymen, the responsibility to stop these extreme events is in the personal responsibility to carry a weapon concealed in public, to head off such event, and encourage other to do the same, should an extreme event happen in our presence. The only way to take responsibility in the way you mean it is to do what you said no one is doing… ‘deny 2nd Amendment rights’ to citizens when YOU don’t think they need them.

        eddie47d says, “More weapons bought and sold in America has not stopped a one of these massacres but has only increased them. Having every man woman or child being armed won’t stop them from happening so your side does an awful lot of wishful thinking too.”

        You’re misinformed…. Many crimes and shooting that could have ended up being as bad as this one have been stopped by individuals with lawfully owned firearms in public. Sadly, the media does not report these as often. Of course, often when a citizen does stop crimes in this way the death toll is way less than what it could have been… often one or two deaths (including the gunman).

        For example, New York Post, Lott reported on a shooting at Appalachian School of Law. Nigerian student Peter Odighizuwa is accused of killing the dean, L. Anthony Sutin, 42 – a former acting assistant U.S. attorney general and campaign worker for Bill Clinton – professor Thomas Blackwell, 41, and student Angela Denise Dales, 33. Yet, the vast majority of the news reports ignored the fact that the attack was stopped by two students who had guns in their cars. The quick response by two of the students, Mikael Gross, 34, and Tracy Bridges, 25, undoubtedly saved multiple lives,” Lott reported.

        Two of the three Virginia law students who overpowered a gunman in a fatal school shooting were armed and used their weapons to disarm the shooter. Yet of the 280 stories written about the shooting, a mere four mentioned the fact that the heroic students were armed and used their guns to halt the rampage.

        In December 2007, Matthew Murray 24, went into New Life Springs Church in Colorado Springs intent on killing everyone in the church… he killed 4 people in the process before shot several times by an individually carrying a firearm, stopping him from killing any others.

        There are many more if you look for them, and even many more than that of armed robberies, rap, and every other crime imaginable being stopped by law-abiding gun owner carrying concealed.

      • eddie47d

        You’re only proving what a violent nation we are and you demand we stop the violence with more violence. If all those heroic efforts are commendable (which they are) then why do we have so much continued violence. Still no solutions only hyped up grandstanding.

      • TML

        People are violent, eddie, it’s part of human nature you can’t change… there is no solution to eliminate violence from those who wish to create it – whether it’s someone that walks in a store and starts punching you, or a man that walks in a theater and starts shooting – EXCEPT to defend yourself. That is the natural right of every creature on earth… self-preservation, and it’s also the only solution.

        “Laws that forbid that carrying of arms, disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted, and better for the assailants. They serve to encourage, rather than prevent homicides.”

        A society of armed citizens is a deterrent to those who wish to create violence… even among their own ranks. Never has there been a mass shooting at a gun range, and for good reason.

        A given technology such as guns, could never be discarded as a relic by the world (much less a nation) without being replaced by a more advanced technology that does the same job. Ideas of a ‘world without guns’, is utterly unrealistic wishful thinking.

    • http://personalliberty polmutant

      progressives, liers, thieves, baby murders, homo’s, communists, marxists. human wanna be’s. take a banana and slow boat to africa with your commander in chief.

      • chester

        Son, go crawl back in your cave and leave civilized folk to their discussions. Is people like you who go out of their way to give the conservative movement a very BAD name.

    • Ted Crawford

      “An Idealist is one who, on noticing that a Rose smells better than a cabbage, concludes that it will also make better soup ” H.L. Mencken
      ” Cynics regard everyone as equally corrupt…Idealists regard everyone as equally corrupt, except themselves “Robert Wilson

    • Flashy

      Alex…you’re describing the fear and the cowardice perfectly. The TP trilogy of fear, hate and ignorance. They yelled down and denigrated anyone opposing the draconian un Patriotic Act when it was passed…they had no want to step up and accept with freedom a risk is carried and a duty to accept such…nope..they jumped all over anyone pointing that out and insisted they be kept “safe’ at the cost of our liberty and freedoms. yeah…today they’ll deny such, and point out the Congressional vote hoping that will mislead those with short memories. Forgetting the times, their insistence and noises and whining, and the stifling of those who were counseling against the cost of freedom they were willing…insisting..to be surrendered.

      So..let’s see… A Congresswoman is shot by a guy who carried magazines holding 30. A movie theatre is shot up and dozens killed and more dozens wounded by a guy with assualt weaponry and clips of 100. A Sikh temple shot up by a guy with weaponry which isn’t exactly the type used for the hunting sportsman. youth gangs armed to the teeth, young teens packin’ and strutting, police approaching cars with one hand on their holster and treating everyone with suspicion and wary of being shot.

      i know…has nothing to do with the easy access to guns … naw…nothing at all…

      • Oneguess

        Ah, yes. Flushed, Alex & eddie47d. WHAT a trio of patriots!

      • chester

        Flashy, think you stepped in it this time, as easy access has little to do with LEGAL access. I can not legally buy a gun of any size, shape, or description, yet will guarantee you that if I wanted one, would just have to let people know that I had cash money to pay for one. Wouldn’t be long would have something to go bang, and probably enough ammunition to say bang several times over. That is how the gangbangers get their weapons, if they don’t simply break into a gun store and steal everything in sight. As far as the rest of the citizens go, what do YOU propose as a method to be sure no one who MIGHT go off their rocker never has access to a weapon of any sort while still allowing everyone else access to what they want or need? You mentioned this latest thing in the Sikh temple, and the guy who went off there was a veteran who had skill in handling weapons as well as certification to legally own them. What do you do about someone like that, who has shown no signs of going off until they walk in your front door and start shooting the place up? Tighter control won’t work. If it did, there would be NO marijuana or cocaine in this country at all. Take a look around and see how many potheads there are, along with all the other substance users and abusers. Prohibition is NOT the answer, and hasn’t been since day one.

      • Flashy

        Chester…not just the Sikh temple, but Aurora, Gifford, and the list goes on and on. now how do you suppose those guns came around to being easy to get..legally or illegally?

        How many more must die?

        As Justice Scalia pointed out…we’ve already established that there are permissible restrictions allowed under the Constitution for who may have them, what is allowed, and where they may be carried and under what terms. That is Scalia speaking…not any Moderate or Progressive.

        Under the theory advanced here as to ease of access etc…i guess they would have the same opinion as to nukes and every country being allowed to have them. Taking the ‘safety’ myth they espouse as a truism…the world would be so much safer if every country had nukes and missiles…

        think about that …

      • phideaux

        ” The TP trilogy of fear, hate and ignorance. They yelled down and denigrated anyone opposing the draconian un Patriotic Act when it was passed…”

        The TP did not exist at that time.

      • phideaux

        “nope..they jumped all over anyone pointing that out and insisted they be kept “safe’ at the cost of our liberty and freedoms. yeah…today they’ll deny such, and point out the Congressional vote hoping that will mislead those with short memories.”

        The congressional vote just reflected what both liberals/progressives and concervatives were calling for. You are the one with the deliberately short memory. And, not all concervatives called for the passage of the un-patriot act. Many like myself saw the potential for abuse inherent in it and opposed its passage. The problem is you liberals out screamed those of us with a little common sense and insisted the government take ever more of our freedoms. Now you claim to be opposed to the un-patriot act but yet you call for ever more laws restricting the rights of law abiding citizens.

      • eddie47d

        Since the police are useless (as you all say and the military and Congress only starts wars which leads to more killings then lets abolish them all. Arm all citizens and see where that takes us. Is that on your wish list?

    • dcjdavis

      So called progressive hopes are false (idealistic) and the curiosity is the kind that killed the cat. Wake up before it’s too late.

    • jt

      You are just one of the many clueless progressives who bask in the warmth of describing yourselves as intellectuals, without a shred of reason to do so. Your life is all about making countless assumptions in order to support your own simple-minded ideologies and deny what the rest of us can plainly see as the reality of human nature and society.

      Indeed, it is the liberal progressive movement that has always feared true liberty, because they can’t bring themselves to trust true freedom in the hands of their neighbors. They simply cannot bear to live in a world where we all have rights and deserve respect, and so they seek to limit individual liberty as much as they can.

      They then embrace this fear as the the common thread that binds them all, and pat each other on the back for being progressives, while accusing those of us who remain rational of being eternally fearful. Oh, what a tragic irony for humanity.

  • Alex

    Keep singing your same tired song, Tim. Meanwhile, another member of our “Well-Regulated Militia” took care of his “problem” by using Sharon Angle’s Second Amendment Remedy yesterday, and seven more notches are now on Wayne Lapierre’s bedpost. He will sleep like a baby again tonight. He and his NRA Flying Monkeys don’t mind the blood of our children as it courses our gutters—to them, the blood smells like “Freedom”….

    • JC

      One seriously sick puppy aren’t ya? :-(

    • Al

      tocb & alex obviously do not have a clue about real true gun ownership and what it is to protect our rights and ourselves. to think progressives live a life of hope & curosity is way out in left field. They said the same thing about Hitler, Stalin and other so called progessives. As a conservative I don’t want war, greed or slavery and I do not live in nor am I consumed by fear, I take precautions like having auto, home & life insurance. I didn’t read where a single cop ran into the theatre to save a single life, they waited until the shooting stopped. The difference between a conservative & proooogressive is the conservative will let you live your life the way you want, the progrossive trys to make me live my life they they want. The day guns become illegal in this country is the day America will cease to be a semi-free country. We have lost so many or individual rights we are no longer a FREE nation but a semi-controlled police state.

      • Alex

        Hitler and Stalin—Progressive? Back to school, Al. Tell them you need to work on Reading Comprehension.

      • JC

        “The Nazis, for example, used a national firearms registration system eventually to confiscate all guns and, as they deemed necessary, to execute gun owners.”
        – Anthony J. Dennis
        Officer and lawyer for Aetna Life and Casualty Company, author, B.A. cum laude from Tufts University; J.D. from Northwestern University School of Law

      • Flashy

        “The difference between a conservative & proooogressive is the conservative will let you live your life the way you want, the progrossive trys to make me live my life they they want.” <— Al

        Errr…Al, what are you smoking? i guess other than wanting to do away with choice, doing away with any protections of womens health, demanding viagra but denying birth control, yelling about some Muslim learning center not even within sight of 9/11, wanting guns while sane people are wondering about your sanity, curtailing medical marijuana, screaming about Death with Dignity allowed to all, insisting this is a christian nation and should be under christian dogma, curtailing right to vote, etc etc…

        Hmmmm…ya startin' to see the fallacy behind your statement? maybe just a tad? Whereas progressives and Moderates are concerned about issues affecting society…

        But then, that would upset the apple cart of the plans to destroy this nation and insert a Corporate American Taliban rule of law as espoused by the TP etc…

    • HH

      “to them, the blood smells like “Freedom”…..”

      Well Alex, our “Freedom” sit’s atop a heaping pile of corpses and the blood of our fallen military hero’s of all our past wars! Our “Freedom” fought for and gained by the use of “GUNS”! If it weren’t for guns and the rivers of spilled blood we wouldn’t enjoy the “Freedom’s” we have.

      • Alex

        Name three or two military “heroes”—HAA!—just name ONE!

      • JC

        Alex, you ignorant pile of feces…every man or woman who ever put on a uniform to defend this nation is a hero. Now get the $*&# out of this country. It doesn’t need As&%#*@! like you.

      • eddie47d

        Those of you who blindly resort to patriotism and freedom in all your answers don’t always get it right either. Most wars were on foreign soil where the government issued the weapons. Even in our Civil War most guns,uniforms and ammo were government issued. The more the governments of the North and the South poured into buying and using weaponry the more casualties there were. Ideals weren’t fought in the court of law but on the battlefield. Pro gun governments and individuals always have a way of resorting to violence to cure their problems. Who speaks for all the dead who are killed by these “legalized” killings? Neither right wing Hitler or left wing Stalin were Progressives but Regressives in how they achieved their goals. There is also an old saying that “those who live by the gun will die by the gun” so it would behove you to stop glorifying all this madness in thinking guns will solve your every ill.

      • HH

        “There is also an old saying that “those who live by the gun will die by the gun””

        Eddy, get real. That saying was for the gunfighters of the late 1800′s, the gangsters of the 1900′s and the gang-banger’s of today, meaning that if you make your living with a gun, “criminally” you will die by the gun……. GET IT? NOT for law abiding citizens who own guns you moron!

      • HH

        “Name three or two military “heroes”—HAA!—just name ONE!”

        JC said it for me…………. ALL MILITARY MEN AND WOMEN, PAST AND PRESENT are hero’s!!!

      • eddie47d

        HH: The US government is armed to the teeth yet we are told to fear any other government out there even those that don’t have the capabilities of harming us. You spread fear long enough no one will be allowed to live in peace. Overkill in weaponry isn’t making us safer but more paranoid of things that aren’t. Some preppers (not all) out there have the same mentality as the government they hate. It’s no longer about protecting themselves or the Second Amendment but buying up as many guns as they can (overkill). You have lost any rational reasoning and not much different than the government. Neither of your policies are making anyone safer but more dangerous for everyone else.

      • mark

        Most of those wars that our ” heroes” fought were to seize other people’s land and resources throught murder and terror. The politicians who started them were morally despicable. Americans should be deeply ashamed of most of those wars.

      • chester

        Mark, think you had best go back and study history some more. I won’t deny the US has been in a war or two over territory we wanted, but the first and second World Wars were NOT of that variety. In both cases, we were sandbagged into the fight, either by having our ships sunk while under weigh, or by having near a whole fleet of naval vessels wiped out in a well timed bombing and torpedo attack. Hate to tell you this, but in neither of those wars did we gain an inch of territory, or any new resources. We did gain a new enemy in the second war, as Joe Stalin survived to fully establish Communist Russia. Hitler was an outgrowth of the first war, when Germany was slapped with indemnification expenses for the countries that “won” the war.

      • mark

        Wade Michael Page, the sick, cowardly, white supremacist who slaughtered 6 unarmed innocents at Oak Creek, WI was a U.S. military man. So was Timothy McVeigh. Some of the most despicable, mass murdering cowards in history are and were U.S. military men. Cowardice is their principle characteristic. They typically target unarmed women and children.

      • mark

        Chester, more than a war or two. I do know my history. A large component of the Revolutionary War for Americans especially those who lived along the frontier was to seize all the lands from the Appalachians to the Mississippi from the Indians living there. All of our wars against the Indians were to sieze land and resources through murder and terror. The Mexican War was fought to sieze 50% of the land of Mexico for our future expansion. The Spanish-American War was fought to seize land and resources in Cuba, Puerto Rico, the Philippines, Guam, and soon after, the Panama Canal Zone. The U.S. military occupied Haiti 1915-1934, the Dominican Republic 1916-1926, Nicaragua 1909-1933 and Honduras 1924-1927 and only left after U.S. companies and pro-U.S. dictators with U.S.-trained armies were in the dominant position to channel resources and bases toward Washington. The United States invaded Vietnam and Iraq to sieze their resouces and impose pro-U.S. regimes. Washington was defeated in both these efforts by determined, local insurgents. I wish it was just a war or two like World War II which was a justified war of defense in my view. But unfortunately, the shameful historical record says otherwise.

      • HH

        To Eddie: I’ve lost rational reasoning? YOU and your kind want to enact stupid laws that will have NO effect on the criminally minded but will only put tighter restrictions on law abiding gun owners. I call THAT a loss of rational reasoning!

        Speaking of losing rational reasoning you say,

        “The US government is armed to the teeth yet we are told to fear any other government out there even those that don’t have the capabilities of harming us….”

        Who out there is telling me to fear governments that don’t have the capability of harming us? Are you talking about Iran? I don’t fear Iran in it’s present state BUT if they were to get the nuclear option they WOULD use it, probably not on us per say but Iran launching a nuke on any other country would open up a can of worms no one wants to have to close!

        The growing fear that I have is for OUR OWN government. The EO’s signed by our presidents, past and present, have given them the “right” to do most anything they wish to us with just the signature of the current president. Right now there are executive orders in place that allow the president, if he so wished, to declare a “drug” crisis which would give the government the right to confiscate our monetary holdings, our lands, our guns and then move millions of our population into “concentration” camps! Define “drug” crisis?

        When is it going to end? With genocide?

        • http://www.facebook.com/gregbeaty Greg T Beaty

          It is going to end in November when Obama is gone and we the people have a say again.

      • eddie47d

        With little exception it’s the Conservatives who push the drug war and even the wars in the Middle East. Obama doesn’t need to be bothering the Muslims either and I don’t like him acting like such a Conservative in pursuing those same policies. Now would you like to take away traffic laws too and let drivers do as they please because It’s There Right. This nation doesn’t need the extreme right abusing the 2nd Amendment and telling us it is “rational thinking” . Those on the right don’t get any gold feather in their hat either when it come to gun violence because it’s the weapons they love that help cause those tragedies.

      • Jimmy The Greek

        Just because some one is in the military does not make them a hero ! there are people today in our military that would drag Americans out of there homes and shoot them if they were ordered to ! back in the days of the draft things were different a some one who was drafted would be more likely to tell a CO to go to hell and frag him , these boys that are going in now days can’t find a job and a lot of them are not so smart , ( if they were they would never have singed up to fight israel’s war ) Just look at what the weekend warriors did in New Orleans going door to door taking peoples guns and leaving them to fend for them self’s with the looters , Think about it long and hard before you put you trust in anybody .

    • Mike Horn

      Hay Alic;
      Where were your so called protectors of the public while this was going on? Like someone said, the police are good cleanup crews after all the shooting is over. It’s time we dafended ourselfs.

    • jt

      ……….said the radical idiot who clearly knows nothing about that NRA.

      If you need to lie, and parody real people in order to make your point, then you don’t have a point worth making.

      You and the rest of your irrational, panic-prone brethren should seek immediate professional help for your progressive mental illness. And perhaps take a class in analytical reasoning while you’re at it. These two approaches may help to reduce your paranoia and overly reactive tendencies.

      Hitler was a national socialist, and one of the most influential (and indeed, charismatic) progressives of his time. His irrational fears led him to commit mass murder and subjugation on a horrific scale. Who can ever say what horrors lurk in the mind of the average progressive?

      • e1313ruth

        The cowardly killers do not pick locations that have access to weapons…They pick houses of worship or movie theaters known not to have weapns of defence… Go ahead dummiecrats disarm America…It could be you or your children who are the next sitting ducks without protection…..Better repent for your part in the destruction of USA before you go to church or the movies…God might forgive you…

        Only a delusional person could believe disarming America will disarm the crazies, And God knows Obama has already armed most of the muslims in the middle east already on our dimes for the soon coming jihad in disarmed America……Eric Holder also is good at selling or giving away guns to criminals too…Wake up America… Don’t let this happen in America..

      • Jimmy The Greek

        Hitler was a right wing nationalist the ones America sided with were the left wing communist The USSR .

    • http://boblivingstonpl.wordpress.com Bob Livingston

      Dear Alex,

      You write: “He and his NRA Flying Monkeys don’t mind the blood of our children as it courses our gutters—to them, the blood smells like “Freedom”….” Meanwhile, progressives don’t mind that the blood of 3,300 aborted babies courses through our gutters every day–to them, the blood smells like “choice”…

      Best wishes,
      Bob

      • Flashy

        Mr. Livingston…while no on disagree with the fact of a human being walking and talking being vitims of gun violence…what some refer to “babies’ others disagree. I happen to see the SCOTUS opinion of trimesters as calling it fairly close to what it is. In essence, survivability outside the womb without artificial help is what the defining line is.

        Since most eggs bought from a farm are fertilized…when you have two fried up…would you think you’re eating chicken?

        What the earliest point that constitutes a human being is a religious issue..what a gun does in killing is a factual one.

        • http://boblivingstonpl.wordpress.com Bob Livingston

          Dear Flashy,

          You write: “Since most eggs bought from a farm are fertilized…when you have two fried up…would you think you’re eating chicken?” As usual, your argument is fallacious.

          Best wishes,
          Bob

      • HH

        Only a left wing idiot would compare a chicken egg to a human embryo.

  • Mike

    Unfortunately that is the world we live in. The best thing for us to do first and foremost is vote for strong second amendment candidates. Secondly and just as important be strong examples of responsible gun ownership, educate people as to why we have chosen to carry. Not give them a bunch of rhetoric, but really talk to them as people and adress their concerns. Maybe take them to the range, let them see how it works, know for themselves that it is not inherently evil. It takes a hand to control that weapon and it is the shooter who decides if it is for good or evil

    • mark

      It isn’t just the world we live in, Mike. Let’s be more specific, it is the country we live in. Mass murder with automatic weapons is as all-American as barbeques, country music, and apple pie. It is a part of our culture and lifestyle. These atrocities occur several times a year, every year in our nation. Not to mention the mass shootings among inner city drug gangs, store robbers, school shootings, and intra-family mass killings. You and especially your children are far more likely to be killed by a domestic terrorist than by an Islamist in the good ol’ U.S. of A. We are a nation that lives almost complacently with constant massive domestic terror and just accepts it as part of our lifestyle. It actually plays a role (though a smaller one than other medical pathologies like obesity and diabetes) in our shorter life expectancies when compared to other modern, industrialized societies. And all of this contributes absolutely zero to our democratic and republican freedoms. Lots of countries that strongly restrict gun ownership are much more free than American citizens are. They are especially free from domestic terror that all Americans today are largely powerless to prevent and just accept like mass obesity, mass pornography, and endless, futile, unwinnable wars overseas. This is America. This is who we are.

      • Flashy

        I think we should carry the pro gun reasoning to the conclusion…let’s allow all nations to have nukes and missiles. According to the pro gun lunatics, the world would be so much safer !

        Right?

      • TML

        Ah, Flashy… the progressives stretching the argument to a ridiculous and unrealistic interpretation in order to work on fear, hate, and ignorance.

      • HH

        “Mass murder with automatic weapons is as all-American as barbeques, country music, and apple pie”.

        mark, name ONE mass murderer who used an automatic weapon! They’ve used “semi” automatic weapons………… BIG difference!

        Let me explain………..

        “Semi”- Automatic:
        Each time you pull the trigger ONE round fires. You must release and squeeze the trigger AGAIN to get the second bullet to fire. MOST hunting guns AND pistols are “semi” automatic.

        Automatic, or Full Automatic:
        When you pull the trigger the gun continually fires bullets until you release the trigger or the magazine runs out of bullets. One MUST have a federal license to own a fully automatic firearm so If a criminal has one you can bet your bottom dollar it’s illegal.

        So mark, if you’re going to make a statement make sure you have your facts straight so at least you won’t SOUND like the buffoon you really are.

      • mark

        HH, several of these killers simply convert semi-automatic into automatic weapons as you well know. Either way, they continue to commit these constant mass murders. It is the mass murders that concern me and millions of other Americans – not the rate of fire of the weapons and whether they have to pull the trigger more often which you seem to obsess about.

      • Flashy

        HH…what is stretching the point?

        If everyone being armed is the TP answer to gun violence…(kinda like retroactive resignation being …well…) … then the thought processes would have no objection to all nations having nukes. All nations being armed means the world is safer.

        Nothing stretched about it.

        Now…if you’d care to point out why all nations having nukes is not making the world safer, i believe you’ll be reciting the very basis for controlling who has guns, where they may have them, and what type they can have.

      • HH

        Flashy, if you have the capability to think, then think just for a moment…………… IF I had been in that theater in Aurora with a concealed weapon I would have had a good chance to stop the carnage. If Iran develops nuclear weapons and lobs one at our country I don’t think I could stop that with my Glock!

        Mass shootings at the extreme kill say 20 or so people? One nuke lobbed into downtown New York, couple million dead?

        You see, there is a HUGH difference between US civilian gun control and the nations of the world keeping nukes out of rouge governments hands.

        Next time you want to use a comparison, compare apples with apples not with grapefruits!

  • Earth

    The shootings were rigged, just like 9/11 was rigged.
    This is an inside job to further and support (hidden) agendas.

    James Holmes (the colorado shooter) .. father is Robert Holmes who is set to testify at the LIBOR banking scandal hearings….

    Also.. his father is a SENIOR SCIENTIST at the famous “FICO” .. you know .. the people who determine credit scores !

    More info here
    http://abundanthope.net/pages/True_US_History_108/Colorado-Shooter-Father-is-SENIOR-SCIENTIST-w-FICO—-to-testify-LIBOR.shtml

    • mark

      Yeah right, Earth, and the white supremacist who killed all the Sikhs was an agent of the Obama administration. We all know how much white supremacists love Obama. Just ask the ones on this site.

      • phideaux

        Being a supremacists he would be quite succeseptable to suggestions from an undercover agent that he needed to shoot up the Sikh Temple. Did that happen? I don’t know since I wasn’t there but you also do not know it didn’t happen for you were not there either.

      • Jimmy The Greek

        Mark Is this man was a real White Supremacist , Sikhs would be at the bottom of his list , because they stay with there own , they don’t marry out of there fath , And most of all they don’t bother other people . yes some Sikhs have gotten a beating because some dumb hillbilly thought they were arabs , no if this guy was a real White Supremacist he would have visited a synagogue

  • Alex

    With every new American terrorist massacre, the NRA’s hysteria builds. More guns are sold with each new use of the Second Amendment Remedy against schoolchildren and grandfathers and newlyweds. The whining of the gun-toters, however, is finding less of an audience each day.

    Less and less people respond to the NRA message of fear. Young people especially, as they have done with dogmatic religious blathering and hyper-materialism, are rejecting the notion that anyone should have the right to as many guns of as many types as one wishes. They are more mature than their predecessors in considering their place in and their responsibility to a sustainable future. Their grandchildren will look back at our gun obsession in amazement and pity our lives spent in self-designed terror.

    How fitting that Tim Young took two weeks to figure out how he wanted to excuse the Aurora Massacre, only to have it published in simultaneity with another in this wretched country’s long, long line of mass shootings.

    Back to the typewriter, Tim. Bang away and come back in two more weeks and tell us how the tragic and misunderstood cretin in Wisconsin was pushed to homicidal madness by the dictatorial takeover of the nation by LBGT Muslim Tree-Hugging Marxist Atheists….

    • JC

      Hysteria, thy name is Alex. :)

    • don

      we”ll see what happens when all guns are taken away. the criminal element will be the only ones to have guns. also the government will take away more of our rights. i read the other day that congress is trying to take away who we associate with. it would forbid people from communicating with organizations like nra. if you had a beef with the government you probly could not go thru your senator or rep. by the time everythiong is done we would be like sheep. take everything and don’t even wimper. we will be at the mercy of everything. sorta of like the 1984 senario.

    • HH

      “Less and less people respond to the NRA message of fear.”

      Then tell me why, Alex, that gun sales have skyrocketed under the Obama administration?

      • JC

        And why am I seeing a huge influx of soccer mom’s at the pistol range in the last two years? People are getting wise to the annointed one and his globalist UN cronies…

      • eddie47d

        Oh Boy here it comes the UN,9/11 and Libor conspiracies. Now who is spreading fear ? The Second Amendment would be stronger and more readily accepted if you kept out all the bogeymen scenarios.

      • Oneguess

        Yeah, eddie47d. We are all sure you are a big supporter of the second amendment.

      • JC

        Eddie you idiot! Thank you for once again demonstrating the complete inability of the “liberal mind” (an oxymoron in itself) to use any form of critical thinking to come to a logical conclusion. You just go ahead and believe whatever your masters tell you to believe…Me? I’ll use physics and logic to reach my conclusions. :)

      • Daveh234

        JC uses “physics and logic” to ascertain that because soccer moms are coming to gun ranges that it is because of the administration and UN cronies.
        “And why am I seeing a huge influx of soccer mom’s at the pistol range in the last two years? People are getting wise to the annointed one and his globalist UN cronies…”
        Sadly that is neither physics or anywhere near logical in it’s assumption.
        More of an opinion. Not even close to scientific.
        Because I believe it to be true it must be true.
        Doesn’t pass muster.

      • JC

        More of an opinion. Not even close to scientific.
        Because I believe it to be true it must be true.
        Doesn’t pass muster.
        _________________________________________________________________

        It’s neither a conclusion nor an opinion…it’s an observation…of something very real.

      • Daveh234

        JC, you stated it was your conclusion on the previous post. Sorry for using your own words.

      • phideaux

        It is a fact that more and more women are purchasing guns and getting training in their use.

        Despite his occasional protestations to the contrary eddie is definately anti-gun as proven by the tone of his posts on the subject and the FACT that he has never opposed greater control over law abiding citizens ability to purchase firearms and his implications that all gun dealers are crooked and sell to anyone who walks in the door.

      • Daveh234

        Yes phideaux that may be a fact. I never thought otherwise. It’s the “conclusion” given as to why that is in question.
        The women in this country need the security of a gun just like all the males.
        The fact that they are getting some “skills” associated with the responsibility of owning a gun is also heartening. I strongly agree that all of us should have some background on safe and judicious use of weapons. like driving a car and a boat(boat users though have no requirement but they should take Coast Guard classes to better educate themselves).

      • JC

        Daveh234 says:
        August 6, 2012 at 11:35 am
        JC, you stated it was your conclusion on the previous post. Sorry for using your own
        words.
        _______________________________________________________________

        I stated no such thing and I’m done arguing with yet another childish liberal idiot.
        have a nice day…in N. Korea or somewhere else…

      • eddie47d

        I’m still waiting for JC’s “critical thinking”. I don’t know if I have that much time. LOL

      • Daveh234

        JC says:
        August 6, 2012 at 10:08 am
        Eddie you idiot! Thank you for once again demonstrating the complete inability of the “liberal mind” (an oxymoron in itself) to use any form of critical thinking to come to a logical conclusion. You just go ahead and believe whatever your masters tell you to believe…Me? I’ll use physics and logic to reach my conclusions.

        JC , you said it. Why call me the idiot? Seems that moniker belongs to you.

  • Ted

    There are those for and those against,but those for will protect those against like it or not.

    • JC

      Yep, always have too…

  • George Estepp

    the colorado shooting and the wesconson shooting in my openion was both orchistraited using mind control subjects. Do you think is coincidence that the Colorado shooter was A psych student? Or that the Wesconsen shooter was ex Army Psych warefare?

    • http://www.facebook.com/gregbeaty Greg T Beaty

      I think you are correct.

    • Fred

      Exactly, giving U.S. firearms to Mexican drug cartels didn’t accomplish their goals. Funny, a few short years ago, all Obama could talk about is Mexican drug gangs (supposedly) arming themselves in the United States, hell you would have thought that at any second we would see a U.S. ban on Chevy Tahoes to prevent them from going to Mexico, now Eric Holder is in contempt and, whilst running for reelection, Obama is strangely silent about drug cartel weapons …….

      • eddie47d

        You still trying to shoe that old horse Fred? The majority of weapons (before fast and furious) were traced back to gun dealers in the USA. Up to 80% of them so get over it. The rest were mostly from eastern Europe. Fast and Furious was a disaster but it still doesn’t excuse the gun running that occurred before that failed policy.

      • Fred

        I don’t where you are getting your statistics, but they are complete lies. The cartel weapon of choice is the AK-47. ( I would guess these would be the smaller percentage which you attribute to Eastern Europe). They are, in fact, the majority of weapons used by drug cartels. They purchase them by the shipping container load at Mexican ports for around $20.-$50. each (fully automatic) , THOUSANDS of them in one fell swoop, yet you lib-tards put forth the argument that the cartels would rather send straw purchasers to the United States and fill out federal paperwork to purchase one or two (semi-automatic) at a time for around $500.+ each and smuggle them back across or rely upon black market guns stolen from law abiding U.S. citizens to arm themselves ????
        Have any idea how ridiculous you sound ?

      • Fred

        Fast & Furious a “failed policy” ? That is a gentle euphemism, isn’t it …….

      • eddie47d

        Why spend hundreds of thousands of dollars in weapons and the expense of shipping from so far away when there are hundreds of gun dealers within 100 miles of the US border. Yes Fred your the one who doesn’t make sense and I know where you get your information (you know who) for I have read that in their magazine. You think they don’t have an agenda in telling you differently? You are correct that those who search out weapons will always find a source and there are many willing sellers even in the good old USA.

      • Fred

        NO, you do not “know where” I am getting information. I am stating FACTS. Fact is that cartels spend hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of dollars arming themselves and they spend it with international arms dealers, NOT law abiding licensed gun dealers. No amount of assistance from Obama & the Holder justice dept. will overcome that little FACT ! …..they already tried ! However, President Obama did succeed in “saving” GM and the cartels are still getting their hands on countless Chevy Tahoes that were undoubtedly manufactured & purchased in the United States.
        When will we stop the madness and ban the sale of GM SUVs and 4×4 pickups ????

      • CZ52

        “The majority of weapons (before fast and furious) were traced back to gun dealers in the USA. Up to 80% of them so get over it.”

        And you are still telling that LIE eddie. It has been proven to you many times that the claim of up to 80% of the guns came from the US is wrong.

      • phideaux

        Ah yes, eddie’s last resort argument “blaim the gun dealers”. According to eddie there are no honest gun dealers so all should be shut down. Yes I know you have not said it outright eddie but you imply it almost every post on the subject.

      • JeffH

        Fred, eddie is still clinging to the erroneous statistics spewed by Feinstein and has been refuted. Cherry-picked data?

        The ATF’s statistic has been controversial since it was first cited two years ago. (At that time the number was even higher, at around 90 percent. It may have dropped now because more guns are getting traced today).

        Nonetheless, it only accounts for guns seized in Mexico, and of those, the ones that the Mexican government submits for tracing. Many see that as an incomplete set of data, leading them to dismiss the statistic as inaccurate.

        “It is completely misleading. There is a huge population of guns that Mexicans confiscated that they don’t submit to trace to the ATF,” says Robert Farago, the managing editor of the website The Truth about Guns. It is estimated that about 30 percent of weapons seized in Mexico are submitted for tracing.

        Mr. Farago does not doubt that military-style weapons are in the hands of drug traffickers in Mexico. But he says that is because weapons from the Mexican military are seeping into drug traffickers’ hands.

        Traffickers also acquire military weapons from other countries.

        “Grenades and fully automatic machine guns are not sold at Bob’s gun store in Arizona,” Diaz says. “This is a distraction technique. There is not an iron river of guns from [US] gun stores.”…but that reality just doesn’t fit into the bigger anti-gun picture.

      • eddie47d

        Hooray for the honest gun dealers but what difference does it make if 200 are honest and 50 are corrupt. The criminals know which ones to hit up and you defend them all (gun dealers).

      • JeffH

        In 1992 there were roughly 245,628 licensed gun dealers in the US. By 2007, that number dropped significantly to 50,630, a reduction of 79%(VPC.org data)

        General Firearms Facts

        -Number of Guns in U.S. Approx. 200 million firearms; 60-65 million handguns
        -Gun Owners in U.S. 60-65 million; 30-35 million own handguns
        -Firearms Used for Protection 11% of firearms owners and 13% of handgun owners
        -Criminal Misuse of Firearms Yearly; Less than 0.2% of firearms, less than 0.4% of handguns
        -No Supreme Court Decision has ever held the right to keep and bear arms to be collective. All four relevant Supreme Court decisions have recognized that the Second Amendment guarantees the right to keep and bear arms.

        Over 99.8% of U.S. firearms and 99.6% of U.S. handguns will NOT be involved in criminal activity in any given year. Survey research suggests that about 645,000 Americans every year use handguns for protection from burglars, robbers, rapists, assailants, would-be murderers, etc.
        http://www.amfire.com/statistic.asp?page=28

        • http://www.facebook.com/gregbeaty Greg T Beaty

          WOW dude, thanks.

      • eddie47d

        As I have stated COUNTLESS times every person has a right to defend themselves. If that involves using a gun then so be it. If you are called to serve your country and use a weapon to defend this nation then so be it. Neither scenario tarnishes the 2nd Amendment. It’s not the 2nd Amendment that is being challenged and your rights are intact.

  • Ron r

    I think it is shameful that you would exploit the victims in order to gain attention to a non issue. No one is trying to take your guns or anyone else’s guns. If.your goal is to incite the extramist who subscribe to that nonsense and this site then I congratulate you. Thank god this b-a is confined to this. Ery small audience.

    • JeffH

      Ron r, that is a clearly unadulterated lie.

  • William Beeching

    I’m gonna work on getting my License to carry in the state of Kansas

  • HH

    Here’s how the media works, I was watching an antique show the other day and they showed a trailer for an upcoming show. In the trailer an individual showed an antique gun that he had and he made this statement;

    “This is the gun that killed president Garfield!”

    Wait a minute! That gun DID NOT kill Garfield, Charles J. Guiteau killed Garfield! That is just the gun he USED to kill Garfield!

    Get over it gun haters, guns don’t kill people, people kill people! If a person doesn’t have a gun they will find something else to kill with!

  • Liberterian

    More restriction and laws have never reduced crime. We do not need to have new gun laws. Like the failure of the drug war to stop drugs or end drug violence, more gun laws does not mean less violence of whatever nature caused by criminals and demented people. The police can’t be everywhere at all times therefore we need armed concealed people with the know how to use a weapon when the proper occasion arises. Thank the founding fathers for the 2nd Amendment and pray tell we never allow someone to take it and our guns away, for that will be the time that big brother and the new world order will make our lives less meaningful.

  • http://peresonallibertydigest.. gottaplenty

    Alex,, What have you to contribute to those of your kind and the fact obummer and eric holder manipulated many mass killings using guns they got into wrong hands intentionally. this was just another liberal way of trying to lie to the people , using thier gun traffic sceme to show how we Americans missuse guns. And we must have them taken away. Idiots like you is the reason gun ownership is nessesary.. If you cant convince enough people to believe your braindead crap then its time to enforce it …. progressive!!!

    • eddie47d

      Where did “gottaplenty ” find time to put so much spin into one little paragraph?

      • Oneguess

        Well, eddie47d, YOU seem to have “plenty” of time to post YOUR libtard crap here…

      • eddie47d

        Someone better be willing to counter the “repubtard” crap that gets spewed here.

      • Opal the Gem

        Well you better try harder eddie for you have countered NOTHING ids your posts so far.

      • JeffH

        Several very important notes on eddie for those that aren’t familiar with his twisted sense of loyalty.
        1. He has been proven to be a liar,many, many times over
        2. He is a proven slanderer, many times over
        3. he’s a prime example of this video…why he can’t be fixed
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fL6wbsGx9qw
        4. he has minimal support from his fellow liberals and progressives…they tend to keep him at arms length
        5. He has had his comments placed in moderation and at times has been suspended from PLD for attacking the authors, even after multiple warnings
        6. He has no credibility whatsoever…after just one independent poll taken by another(not endorsed by PLD)questioning his crediility, final tally was(20-0), 20 agreed he had none and 0 supported his credibility…not one liberal or progressive stood up on his behalf

        Nuff said!

      • eddie47d

        Still shooting yourself in the foot with your lies Jeff. Remember your support for Kate in the Israeli’s killing our president in Chicago. Some of your tripe is laughable but you insist on repeating it about me.

      • JeffH

        ddie says “Jeff. Remember your support for Kate in the Israeli’s killing our president in Chicago.”

        Of course that is just another of eddie’s many lies.

        eddie knows that all of the points I’ve made are, in fact, true. The truth is eddie can’t dis-prove any of it.

        “Denile ain’t some river in Africa.”

      • eddie47d

        Go back to bed Jeff. Kate said it and said it was going to happen and you in turn agreed with her . So you are the one floating down the Nile and will hit the rapids real soon in your lies and betrayal of the truth. .

      • Alex

        Well, this Far Left lunatic, for one, thinks that eddie47d is one of the better commentators I find on the PLD…

      • JeffH

        Alex, why am I not surprised? One bigoted liberal lunatic Alex, who also has no credibility, is offering support for another. This is the first time anyone stood up and confirmed their stupidity. You’re two peas in the same pod.
        Now you’ve got another problem to deal with…like a leach eddie will cling to your every word and you’ll have to identify with him. Your problem know!

        What I stated about eddie is a known fact by anyone that’s been around here for several years…Alex included.

      • JeffH

        …now, not know…

      • Nancy in Nebraska

        eddie47d LIES and makes up CRAP!!!

  • http://twitter.com/Queen_V1216 Vickie Barnachea (@Queen_V1216)

    It is amazing that media always skew the news to making the bad person looks good and the victims on the opposite side most often than not. And the lawyers? Forget it, they love this and they make sure that the victim is the one at fault. Ah, the mighty green buck for them.

  • DavidL

    The gun lobby uses tragedies like this to sell more guns. They should not be throwing stones in articles like this.

    We need more facts:

    1. Why was the shooter, Wade Michael Paige, discharged from the Army, a psychological unit, with a less than honorable discharge?

    2. What weapon did he use in this killing? (I am interested in the magazine capacity primarily)

    3. When did he purchase the weapon used? Was it before or after he was discharged from the Army?

    4. Where, and under what circumstances, did he purchase the weapon?

    5. Did he have any criminal or civil complaints against him before this incident?

    • independent thinker

      1. Why was the shooter, Wade Michael Paige, discharged from the Army, a psychological unit, with a less than honorable discharge?

      Unless the Army releases the information it will probably never be known.

      2. What weapon did he use in this killing? (I am interested in the magazine capacity primarily)

      9mm handgun no information on magazine capicity released so far so probably standard magazines not extra capacity ones.

      3. When did he purchase the weapon used? Was it before or after he was discharged from the Army?

      He purchased it after he was discharged according to news articles.

      4. Where, and under what circumstances, did he purchase the weapon?

      Has not been released to my knowledge.

      5. Did he have any criminal or civil complaints against him before this incident?

      Initial news reports said no.

  • Howard Roark

    Liberals tell us that we do not need guns as the police will protect us. not so says the courts. the courts have ruled that it is not the job of law enforcement to protect its citizens.

    Because the police have no general duty to protect individuals, judicial remedies are not available for their failure to protect. In other words, if someone is injured because they expected but did not receive police protection, they cannot recover damages by suing (except in very special cases, explained below). Despite a long history of such failed attempts, however, many, people persist in believing the police are obligated to protect them, attempt to recover when no protection was forthcoming, and are emotionally demoralized when the recovery fails. Legal annals abound with such cases.

    Warren v. District of Columbia is one of the leading cases of this type. Two women were upstairs in a townhouse when they heard their roommate, a third woman, being attacked downstairs by intruders. They phoned the police several times and were assured that officers were on the way. After about 30 minutes, when their roommate’s screams had stopped, they assumed the police had finally arrived. When the two women went downstairs they saw that in fact the police never came, but the intruders were still there. As the Warren court graphically states in the opinion: “For the next fourteen hours the women were held captive, raped, robbed, beaten, forced to commit sexual acts upon each other, and made to submit to the sexual demands of their attackers.”

    The three women sued the District of Columbia for failing to protect them, but D.C.’s highest court exonerated the District and its police, saying that it is a “fundamental principle of American law that a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any individual citizen.” [4] There are many similar cases with results to the same effect. [5]

    • eddie47d

      I don’t put much faith in the police and believe that each and every person has the right to defend themselves with reasonable restrictions. You are absolutely correct that those women could have done more to defend themselves. Whether in using a weapon or the fact they had plenty of time to get out of there. They did not react to the danger very well.

      • Oneguess

        Blame the victim, as usual.

      • eddie47d

        Right wing “hero” Russell Pearce blamed the victims I sure didn’t. !

  • Howard Roark

    Also never forget that in addition to self and family protection, firearms are owned as a means to overthrow a tyrannical government. (like the one we have now) as stated in the Declaration of independence and the militia act.

  • http://www.davidlerickson.com David

    Lots of interesting comments here. Personally, I think gun training ought to be part of our public school curricula. Second, I don’t believe our current laws protect us against people acquiring military grade weapons and in the case of gun shows, there seems to be nothing more than lip service.
    I believe we need to make gun laws federal, eliminating the individual state laws which creates in patchwork of loopholes. Every state needs to be a ‘right to carry’, but stringent rules need to be in place to keep criminals and whackjobs from easily acquiring these weapons. Armor piercing bullets, assault weapons, and clips larger than 10 rounds need to be banned altogether.
    The key here is publicly funded gun training. The better our populace is educated on weapons use and missuse, the better we will be prepared.
    The next key is the evaluation of possible threats. So far, we’ve seen this fail time and again. The Columbine shooters offered scads of clues, as did the Muslim army colonel. Why he hasn’t been tried yet is a total miscarriage of justice, leaving us to wonder if the gov’t is complicit in some way. The theater shooter’s psychiatrist warned of the danger, but was ignored. What’s with that?
    The next step is as outlined above. It is time we got serious about this. We don’t have to disarm our populace and I think it would be a huge mistake to do so, but the systems we have in place now are inadequate.

  • ruth

    The restrictive gun laws are what is causing the mass gun murders.. The terrorists, criminals and crazies know so few are armed in America we are sitting ducks for them….Disarming America while the Obama administration is arming most of the muslim world is akin to insanity if we let it happen..It is signing the death warrant for America…..

    I had a renter whom I very much distrusted… I, in the course of conservation let him know I owned a gun and could hit a bull’s eye from 30 yards….He got very uneasy….He also moved away soon afterwards…

    One has to be either a complete moron or brain dead to think the criminals, terrorists and crazies will obey a disarm gun law???/ That is just plain stupid….The only defence a decent American has is to be armed and ready….THAT ALONE WILL DISCOURAGE THE TERRORISTS, CRIMINALS AND CRAZIES…

    Also, let the law suits begin against the Colorado theater for failure to provide protection for their patrons by being completely disarmed..

    • eddie47d

      Americans are very welled armed Ruth so what planet are you from? LOL Several people have brought up that America wouldn’t be invaded because we are so welled armed. They say the same about the Swiss so which is it? The more we arm ourselves the more insane we get whether government or individual. Now if you want this free for all then accept the consequences.

      • 45caliber

        eddie:

        As I understand your post, since we have more guns we are getting more violent. You mentioned the Swiss. Since every house in Switzerland has at least one fully auto rifle, it must mean that the Swiss are really crazy, right?

      • eddie47d

        Ad nauseum! The Swiss weapons are under government control and registered. Now do you get it Caliber.

      • 45caliber

        eddie:
        If they are kept in houses, they are NOT under government control. Sorry, eddie, you blew it again. Further, registration doesn’t mean control. It simply means that they know where the guns are SUPPOSED to be, not where they are. So your whole argument, like most of those you post, is meaningless.

      • eddie47d

        More ad nauseum from Caliber in his twisted logic! They do random home inspections so few if any citizen will dare break the law with those government issued weapons. That would be a good way to permanently get kicked out of the Swiss militia and probably do a little jail time.

      • 45caliber

        You REALLY have no conception of safey, do you eddie? Sorry, your entire theory is wrong. People who want to commit crimes will do so, regardless of whether the government checks on them at random. Work in a jail for awhile. Nearly every criminal there believes they were caught only by bad luck … and they won’t get caught next time. It doesn’t matter what the government does – in their way of thinking. No one is as smart as they are. Therefore, if guns make people commit crimes then the Swiss would be the worst criminals in the world. They aren’t – so your argument is wrong.

        Not that you argue. You simply call names.

  • Dave

    It is pretty hard to stop government sponsored and financed events designed to take away our rights. Look at the facts that are known and then ask, who was really behind the attack. The FBI knew it was going to happen. We are all be distracted by a false flag events and the people really responsible could care less who gets killed. We are all being played!

  • http://stevor.wordpress.com stevor

    Even worse:
    Look at the old pictures of James Holmes and this guy “caught”. They have different noses, one having a wide one and the other having a narrow one. Did he get a nose job? Not likely.
    Since James’ father was about to blow the lid off the banking industry, did the Elite KIDNAP Holmes, replace him with a drugged out nut and then are holding James hostage so the dad doesn’t testify?
    Explain it otherwise!

  • e1313ruth

    America causes war to steal lands????? I don’t think so…. It is muslims who are stealing the world as we speak…..I do not know of one war America engaged in and took over the land….. Japan, Korea, Viet Nam, Adfghanistan, Iraq, Germany, …..Show me stolen lands…and don’t say American indians… They migrated to America same as Americans but just at an earlier date…
    Do yourself a favor and read the history of Islam..It was spread with bloodshed and death and forced conversions and land stealing…

    • 45caliber

      e13:

      I agree with you. Not even the Mexican war was started by us to steal lands, although a lot try to insist it was. We were trying to stop criminals from coming over the border to raid and steal and then flee back to safety.

      Every time I hear some lib insist that we went to war in the Mid-east to steal their oil, my question is: “Where is that oil you say we stole? Why is it still going to its original customers, mainly in Europe, and the mid-east country getting the money? Why isn’t it going to us?” Funny. They all tend to shut up after that.

      • Smithkowitz

        Check the bank accounts of some wealthy politician families and where some of the money comes from. Black Gold, MidEast Tea. The Oil Wars have been going on for decades and decades, similar to the Drug Wars.

  • http://s Arnoldo Galvan

    If stripping everybody of their guns were the solution,then Mexico, would not be having the problem they are having, since gun ownership in Mexico is illigal. The only reason the violence in Mexico has not spilled over to Texas, as much some elements would like to make us believe, it is because they know we Texans would shoot back.

    • 45caliber

      Arnoldo:

      The violence HAS spilled over. About 80% of all the murders in Houston, among other places in Texas, is related to drugs and the cartels. The news media just doesn’t want to cover that point because it might make a lot of people upset. The only thing that hasn’t shown up here YET is a lot of the mindless killing of a lot of innocent people. Even that is going on to some extent. Take a close look at the next story you read of drive by shootings – and see if you can learn why it took place. In most cases it is one gang trying to shoot up another gang or is trying to encouarge everyone in that area to fear them.

  • Smithkowitz

    Here’s an age old question: What is the purpose of a gun, aggression or defense? If you go back into history and the initial creation, it seems it was introduced as a defense mechanism to repel invaders.

  • 45caliber

    Just a comment. I think the picture is backwards. The blue is supposed to be on the left. And the person holding the gun is left handed in this picture.

  • jt

    WOW. The inmates (ahem, I mean “residents”) at the Michael Moore Home for the Progressively Insane are really have a field day here today!

    Evidently, they’ve all been on their best behavior, and have been rewarded with extended internet privileges. Hey guys, be careful with all that extra freedom you have today. It’s “scary” stuff……..

    Hey, maybe you can all video-conference with Mayor Bloomberg on the best strategy for banning jelly beans, or something equally “progressive”.

  • 45caliber

    Tim said: “See? Show business tells us yet again that if you use a gun, you are going to be mentally ill or have some sort of issue.”

    I watched just enough of “Platoon” to realize that the theme of that movie was: “If you go to be a soldier, you will either go crazy (if you weren’t already) or you must take drugs to remain sane.”

    This is the message of the liberals – primarily because they believe it. “Young people become soldiers because they want to kill someone legally.” “Never trust any vets.” “Vets have mental problems and should be carefully watched and monitored.” “Anyone who kills someone else will have nightmares and mental problems the rest of their life.” I can think of several other quotes I’ve heard at one time or another. Even the police if vilified where the libs can.

    But they are willing to order others to kill if needed for some political point. That is okay.

    • http://abstract.desktopnexus.com/cat/3d-and-cg/ dennis1946
    • CHARLES RANDALL

      45, “vets have mental problems and should be watched carefully!”" Like the one that just went off in Wisc.? Or is it just a Mr. livingston false flag by the Obama Administration? Or is just another crazy with a very easy gun? We have no problem in this country with guns!!! REALLY??? NO PROBLEM AT ALL???? IT’S WHAT GOD WANTS??? WHY??
      PEOPLE ARE DANGEROUS!! PEOPLE WITH GUNS ARE REALLY REALLY DANGEOUS!! RIGHT???

      • 45caliber

        Charles:

        Wrong. There are about 150 million people in the US with guns. ONE went off as you pointed out. So – should we punish the other 150 million people due to what ONE person did? I think not.

  • David169

    In reply to the article above, the second man shot in Aurora had a CCW permit but left the gun outside in his car because of the theaters policy. He said in an interview he had a full 20 seconds to get off a shot if he had not been disarmed. I hope he sues the crap out of the theater for violating his civil rights.

    • 45caliber

      David:

      So do I. And if I was the family of the rest who were shot there, I’d also sue on his argument that he might have been able to stop the guy before he killed my family members.

  • http://abstract.desktopnexus.com/cat/3d-and-cg/ dennis1946
  • coal miner 1

    NRA Membership Become a member of the National Rifle …

    http://www.savetheguns.com/nra_membership.htm

    SaveTheGuns.com, I invite you to learn more about becoming a member of the NRA and to join the National Rifle Association, by clicking any of the “JOIN NRA WEBSTES

  • tom

    If they take away our guns because they kill people, does that mean they’ll take away the mexican drunks and gangs and black robbers and caucasion muderers. Oh I didn’t mean to remind these knuckle heads what their job really is supposed to be . I’m being politically incorrect !

  • http://tlgeer.wordpress.com tlgeer

    While I agree with what your article says who, exactly, is proposing banning guns? No generalizations, just facts.

  • Deerinwater

    Well Tim, ~ you will always get a lot of attention with matters of gun ownership.

    Let me say, we have little need to worry about such matters. ~ For many reasons but the biggest reason is that there is simply to much money surrounding the manufacturer and sale of guns.

    For the same reason drugs, prostitution and gambling will never be legal except under strict control and restricted so too will be guns. They will always exist and be available.

    As for myself, I find it odd that people speak of “right to carry” like it really means something. The last thing I needs is someone’s permission and the very last thing I need is for someone to (especially government) know if I do or if I don’t and what it might be. You become a marked person and allow government into your pocket annually.

    I accepted the responsibility of ownership years ago knowing full well I was viewed as a criminal for doing so. But for the record, I own no guns, I have no guns.

    There is only so many pirates that a single place might contain I suppose, but much like your sexual orientation, there is certain things that is nobody business. Gun ownership is personal and I could care less what the laws are since clearly bad men don’t.

    When there are no more bad men, I’ll be the first in line to change my position on all matters of guns.

    Mankind is as mean and ornery today as he ever was, ~ It’s no worse, it’s no better.

    • gunner689AI

      excellent points. don’t forget that many of the thugs we need defend against are in positions of authority.

      PC is BS

  • Jimbo

    Take the argument away from them! Next time a tragedy like this happens in which the shooter is a law enforcement officer, we ought to all march on Washington and demand the total disarmament of the police, FBI, ATF, Secret Service, Homeland Security, National Guard, and military, on the grounds that guns kill people, and should not be trusted in anyone’s hands. The people in power, who think their lives are more valuable than anyone else, will see the threat to their own security, and retreat from the gun control platform like the scared rabbits they really are.

    The question we ought to be asking the Presidential candidates in the upcoming debates, is why they deserve the protection of guns and we do not! Let’s ask Mr. Obama if he wouldn’t feel more secure if the Washington DC restriction on guns was extended to his Secret Service squad! Let’s ask the self proclaimed Constitutional Scholar to justify his huge security detail, when, according to him and his cohorts in Congress, the 2nd amendment is only for “militias” called up by the “state”. Let’s ask him why his Secret Service is armed with automatic weapons when the “intent” of the 2nd amendment is to limit us to black powder muskets and antique hunting rifles.

    • Jeff

      Did you need some exercise? Next time, take a walk, so no one has to know what idiotic stuff goes on in your head.

      • jt

        Clearly, you are the idiot. You’ve not expressed a single coherent, rational point yet.

  • gunner689AI

    Anyone who tries to take away my Rights will get my lefts; I have a left master eye.

    • Jeff

      Colonel:

      Of course, that’s the question. What are your rights? To have an M16 in your house? I think not.

      • jt

        If, indeed you think not, then you think incorrectly.

        The facts are what they are. They are not what you mistakenly perceive them to be.

        A weapon in the hand of a lawful citizen is a threat to no man, and an asset to many. A public disarmed is a public at the mercy of criminals and tyrants.

        end of story……..

    • gunner689AI

      i prefer the Ak’s. they’re cheaper and so is the ammo. too many bad feelings about the M-16s jamming in Nam.

  • Pingback: What Rights do we REALLY Need? | That Joe Guy

  • Rob

    Hey Eddie 47! Keep drinking the socialist kool aid!
    You are right you don’t need a gun. Wait let me guess…
    You are going to be the first one in line at FEMA DEATH CAMP to have your social security number tatooed on your forehead. Proudly I might add
    Don’t forget true history.
    DID YOU FORGET ALL OF THE JEWS THAT WERE KILLED IN WWII?!
    OH YEAH HITLER USED GUN CONTROL THEN SLAUGHTERED HOW MANY MILLIONS OF PEOPLE? He also used false flag terror and was a huge advocate of terrorism. You are living proof that the utopian popaganda is alive and well and very effective. Keep trusting your saftey and freedom to the the government and see how long that lasts.
    The trees of Freedom have to be washed with the blood of patriots and tyrants.

  • Pingback: The Many Must Always Suffer From The Inexcusable Actions of The Few « businessabnormal

  • Thomas

    If you think owning a gun will solve your problems and make you free then you are insane. Like most police officers I have never had to pull my weapon. Common sense and a rational mental attitude rule every situation. If you ever have to react to a threat you use whatever is at hand. More perps have been tackled than shot. Read police statistics, it’s a fact. Gun freedom invites Waco situations. Legalized murder by the ATF. Living in a country where police can kill you because they are afraid is the real crime. If you think having a gun makes you safe, you are a wimp and a coward. If you live in a place where you need to duck and return fire, than you need to move.

    • Jeff

      A voice of sanity. Thank you.

    • gunner689AI

      Thank you Tom the Gestapo Agent for your advise. I’m sure they used that retoric in Germany in the 30′s. Remember that when seconds count in life or death situations the police are only minutes away.

      PC is BS

    • HH

      Thomas you say, “If you think owning a gun will solve your problems and make you free then you are insane”.

      Are you a police officer? I know several police officers and NONE of them talk like you and they ALL carry a gun! Even when their off duty they STILL carry a concealed weapon! Are they wimps or cowards?

      You also say, “If you ever have to react to a threat you use whatever is at hand”.

      You are right on that, and I ALWAYS have my gun “at hand”!!!

      Then you said, “Gun freedom invites Waco situations”.

      Are you sure your name isn’t eddie? NO, gun freedom DOES NOT invite Waco situations, crazed cult leaders bring on Waco situations! It’s the person behind the gun NOT THE GUN!!!

      And another moronic statement you make, “If you think having a gun makes you safe, you are a wimp and a coward”.

      No edd………. I mean Thomas, I’m not a wimp OR a coward and I don’t think my having a gun make me safe either but I feel that having a gun gives me another option to take control of a situation that get’s out of hand like a crazy lunatic firing on innocent people at random. I don’t want to be a sitting duck if a situation like that arises around me.

      AND last if not least you say, “If you live in a place where you need to duck and return fire, than you need to move”.

      Come on Thomas get real, the theater in Aurora is NOT in a bad area of town and the Sikh Temple? That should be a “safe haven! A McDonald’s restaurant for cryin’ out loud! And a mall parking lot where Giffords was shot? You don’t have to live in a bad area to be caught in the middle of something bad happening, I live in a very safe neighborhood but I can’t stay there my entire life! I have to work, go to the store, go to church etc…. Carrying a gun and being responsible is not wimpy or cowardly and since all the bad guys have guns it’s just being smart, get it?

  • lightcrosser

    The theater had signs prohibiting concealed weapons, in Colorado the laws prohibit carry
    in these areas. I Missouri law states that if discovered carrying the business can ask you to leave no harm no foul. I leave cards stating no guns no money and the back tells how as a CCW person I have had a criminal and psychiatric back ground check and have been trained to carry. I carry regardless except where the law says I can’t court houses and federal buildings. The guy was wearing body armor but a head shot still works, and body armor only prevents death not defeat. when you get shot wearing a vest it hurts and really screws up your concentration. On man or woman with a concealed weapon could have prevented a tragedy. Guns are tools like any other tool they can be used for evil or good. Remember Cops carry firearms to protect themselves, not the people and when seconds count the police are just minutes away. “An armed society is a polite safw
    e society”

    • HH

      Sorry lightcrosser but the gun laws in Colorado do NOT prohibit carry in a movie theater. That is JUST the movie theater’s policy NOT a Colorado gun law. You would not be prosecuted for having a gun in that theater, if you were caught with a gun there all they could do would be to ask you to leave.

      • Jeff

        I thought you held private property sacred. So, you’re fine with sneaking your precious gun into the theatre even though the owners’ policy is no guns?

        • HH

          Jeff, I was just stating a FACT! Like always your left wing logic is flawed. I, like millions of concealed weapon carriers, either won’t do business with an establishment that prohibits carry on their premises OR will leave our weapons at home or in the car. I’m sure there were several CCW permit holders in that theater that morning and not a single one of them had a gun! Why? I’ll tell you why, people who have CCW permits ARE HONEST LAW ABIDING CITIZENS who respect other peoples properties!

  • coal miner 1

    Quotes for the day!

    The difference between death and taxes is death doesn’t get worse every time Congress meets.

    —Will Rogers

  • coal miner 1

    Keep and bear arms!

    “Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.”
    - Unknown

    “I would rather be tried by 12 of my peers than carried by 6 of my friends.”
    - Unknown

    The unarmed man is not just defenseless, he is also contemptible.
    Machiavelli

    The world is filled with violence. Because criminals carry guns, we decent law-abiding citizens should also have guns. Otherwise they will win and the decent people will lose.
    James Earl Jones

    After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn’t do it.
    William Burroughs

    You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass. Japanese Admiral Yamamoto, 1941

    “25 States allow anyone to buy a gun, strap it on, and walk down the street with no permit of any kind: some say it’s crazy. However, four out of five US murders are committed in the other half of the country: so who’s crazy?”
    – Andrew Ford

  • http://none Claire

    I still have my gun rights. Neither Obama nor Romney are saying much, if anything, about gun rights. I sure haven’t heard anything.

  • http://twitter.com/ericbischoff Eric Bischoff (@ericbischoff)

    A Well Regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

    Yes but we are anything but a well regulated Militia. We are definitely not secure or free anymore even though we have more guns that anyone else. They won’t even let us peaceably assemble to redress govt. And we can’t even ever agree on the meaning of keep and bear or even infringed.

    Is this it? Are we a failed experiment and we need to start over! That seems to be the case and then that means that our founding fathers didn’t get everything right and we need to do even better the next time around. If you stand so strongly with the constitution then, how did we get here? It shouldn’t have happened. Is going back the smart thing to do or is that just guaranteeing we’ll end up in the same place down the road.

    I think any rational person would want to reexamine or clarify all of these things especially since we are more and more faced with nut jobs who have easy access to assault weapons and as much ammunition as they want.

    You have to be properly trained and vetted to drive a car because you can kill people with it, maybe we should do something similar at least with automatics and assault weapons. What’s to keep some of you from wanting small nukes to protect ourselves from our government? They are arms and maybe that’s the only thing they fear. Thus Iran!

    I realize some of you can’t think further than I want my gun but then you must stop your whining and your surprise every time we have one of these mass murders. Get used to it then.

    I am torn between owning a gun to protect my home and not being part of the violence that is invited as soon as you make that decision to buy a gun. So far I haven’t done it.

    What ever happened to thou shalt not kill and turn the other cheek. I guess we can pick and choose which parts we like and follow.

    • Jeff

      Haven’t you heard? The Republican interpretation of the 2nd amendment ignores everything prior to the first comma. The language is there just because and has no impact on how we’re to interpret the rest of it. It’s a one-time interpretation, not to be cited anywhere else – like Bush v. Gore.

  • Joseph

    It is rather obvious that a nation that would execute “Fast and Furious” operation in order to generate negative press would not hesitate to use the expertise from Project MK (yeah look it up) to create shooters around the country. Given enough bad press and fearmongering by the neo-communists on TV eventually some spineless Republicans will go along with gun confiscation. We certainly have an oversupply of spineless Republicans.

  • Lastwordinc.. 2012

    Last Word

  • chris

    creating stiffer gun control will increase black market to fill demand making it harder to trace the owner…that wudnt have happened in texas someone wud have termanated the threat imediately.

  • http://Nexopia.com/users/rieplanutev/blog/9-ffl-certificate-guarantees-legal-protection-to-the-firearms-dealers Dominick

    An interesting discussion is worth comment. I believe that you ought to publish more about this subject, it might not be a taboo subject but
    typically people don’t discuss these topics. To the next! Many thanks!!

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