Even More Reasons To Hate Obamacare

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Tick, tick, tick. That’s the sound of the clock ticking down to when the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (PPAACA) — the monstrosity known as Obamacare — will go into effect. If you think there are good reasons to detest this legislation now, just wait until you actually have to begin obeying it.

As we celebrate this Independence Day weekend, I’ve got a suggestion on how the House of Representatives could take a giant step toward gaining our independence from this massive government takeover of our healthcare system. More on that later in this column. But first, let’s look at some additional reasons why we must drive a stake through the heart of this beast.

Remember when then-Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi said we had to pass Obamacare to find out what’s in it? At the time, the bill was more than 2,700 pages long. You can bet your bottom dollar that not a single member of Congress had read the darned thing, much less understood what implementing it would mean for this country.

Since then, more than 20,000 pages of new regulations have been issued by the Federal government to interpret and enforce the legislation’s new requirements. That’s more than twice as many pages as the Internal Revenue Service tax code — and you know how easy it is to understand and comply with that Federal juggernaut.

Speaking of the IRS, it should send chills up and down your spine to realize that this is the agency that will be responsible for enforcing many of the provisions of Obamacare. The IRS says it will have to hire 17,000 new agents to insure compliance. Oh, boy. I can hardly wait.

Meanwhile, we’re starting to get a better idea of just how expensive this Federal takeover of our healthcare system will be. This past Monday, the lead story in The Wall Street Journal carried the headline, “Insurance Costs Set for a Jolt.” The first sentence began: “Healthy consumers could see insurance rates double or even triple when they look for individual coverage under the federal health law later this year.”

Don’t say we didn’t warn you. The article adds that many of the most cost-effective plans currently available may disappear: “The exchanges, the centerpiece of President Barack Obama’s health-care law, look likely to offer few if any of the cut-rate policies that healthy people can now buy, according to the Journal’s analysis.”

Many businesses did a catch break earlier this week, when the Obama Administration announced that it would delay for a year enforcement of one of the law’s most onerous provision: the requirement that any business with 50 or more full-time employees offer healthcare benefits starting Jan. 1, or face fines of $2,000 per employee or more.

That means this provision won’t kick in until after the November 2014 elections, when one-third of the Senate seats and all of the House seats will be up for grabs. Just an eerie coincidence, I’m sure.

Senator Max Baucus (D-MT), one of the legislators who helped draft the original legislation, said of the bill’s implementation, “I just see a huge train wreck coming down.” The veteran politician, who currently serves as chairman of the powerful Senate Finance Committee, has decided to head for the hills before the damage becomes obvious to everyone. He’s announced that he will retire at the end of next year, rather than face the voters in Montana another time.

No wonder some potential endorsers of the legislation are also saying “no thanks.” Last week, Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius proudly announced that the NFL was “enthusiastically engaged” in talks with the Administration about how it could help promote the new health-insurance options mandated by Obamacare.

It turns out she was a bit premature. After hearing about the Administration’s plans to line up celebrity endorsements for Obamacare, Senate Republican leaders Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) and John Cornyn (R-Texas) sent the five major professional sports leagues a letter urging them not to do so.

The NFL promptly issued a statement saying it “currently [has] no plans to engage in this area.” And the NBA also denied plans for any such promotional efforts, saying there is “nothing we plan to announce at this point.”

So we may be spared hearing a millionaire athlete telling us how good Obamacare will be for us. But Investors Business Daily has the details of an even more nefarious scheme to gain support for Obamacare. The newspaper says that over $1 million bucks is being spent in California to turn students into advocates for socialized healthcare. Tell me this doesn’t make your blood boil:

The goal is to train millions of student messengers statewide to sell the idea of government-subsidized health insurance to parents and relatives at home and to get more people enrolled in Obamacare.

Taxpayer-paid public school staff will also be used to phone students’ homes urging enrollment under Obama’s Affordable Care Act. And they will be used to consume precious class instructional time to teach the students all about the healthcare program that the Democrat Congress did not read before passing in 2010.

Now, I realize that California is the most liberal State in the country. A friend of mine who lives there likes to refer to it as “the People’s Republic of California.” But I can’t believe there won’t be a ton of parents furious at these plans to turn their children into miniature propagandists for Obamacare.

By the way, if you think the new healthcare exchanges will be a train wreck, just wait until the Independent Payment Advisory Board is fully operational. This is the outfit that Sarah Palin referred to as a “death panel.” Although she was lambasted unmercifully at the time for that description, it turns out the former Alaska Governor was, if anything, understating the case.

David B. Rivkin Jr., the lawyer who led the legal challenge to Obamacare in the courts, has warned of the “god-like powers” the PPAACA bestowed on this powerful group.

In an article for The Wall Street Journal, Rivkin and Elizabeth Foley, a professor of Constitutional law, wrote:

The bottom line is that the Independent Payment Advisory Board isn’t a typical executive agency. It’s a new beast that exercises both executive and legislative power but can’t be controlled by either branch. Seniors and providers hit hardest by the board’s decisions will have nowhere to turn for relief–not Congress, not the president, not the courts.

How could this possibly be?

“The Obamacare law also stipulates that there ‘shall be no administrative or judicial review’ of the board’s decisions,” Rivkin and Roley report.

How could Congress vote to create such an obviously unconstitutional group? Remember that statement by Pelosi? Clearly, they didn’t know they were doing it. And clearly, the bill’s supporters planned it that way.

So what can we do about it? There’s no point asking the House of Representatives to pass another repeal bill. Been there; done that. Nothing will change here until we get a conservative majority in the Senate (hopefully in 2014) or a new occupant in the White House (hopefully not Hillary Clinton in 2016).

But here’s something the House could do tomorrow: Cut off funding to implement the darned thing.

Yes, I know. For the past umpteen years, the attitude in Washington has been that once a program has been approved, of course it has to be funded. But does it? The Constitution doesn’t say so. In fact, it states very clearly that every spending bill, every time, must originate in the House of Representatives.

Wouldn’t it be wonderful to see the House refuse to vote the funds to pay for those 17,000 new IRS agents or a bunch of the other mandates in the badly misnamed Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act?

How about defunding the unconstitutional National Labor Relations Board or the outrageous edicts emanating from the Environmental Protection Agency? In fact, how about defunding enough Federal programs to end deficit spending? Wouldn’t that be wonderful?

This is a battle I’d love to see us wage. So how about it, Congressmen? Isn’t it high time to stop signing all of those checks? Especially when you have to borrow the money to pay for them?

Until next time, keep some powder dry.

–Chip Wood

Chip Wood

is the geopolitical editor of PersonalLiberty.com. He is the founder of Soundview Publications, in Atlanta, where he was also the host of an award-winning radio talk show for many years. He was the publisher of several bestselling books, including Crisis Investing by Doug Casey, None Dare Call It Conspiracy by Gary Allen and Larry Abraham and The War on Gold by Anthony Sutton. Chip is well known on the investment conference circuit where he has served as Master of Ceremonies for FreedomFest, The New Orleans Investment Conference, Sovereign Society, and The Atlanta Investment Conference.

  • Dave

    I have wondered for a long time why this hasn’t been done. I thought that it was the “you scratch my back, I’ll scratch yours” policy that it seems most of our elected representatives operate under. Perhaps now that the light of day can be shown to the American people, and they understand that their “elected Representatives” do NOT have to fund all of these programs just because they come down the pike, we can get something done. This is an excellent idea!

    • Vigilant

      It has been done, a number of times. See my posting above.

    • Vigilant

      It has been done, a number of times. See my posting above.

  • mojo

    Americans “love” to watch anything that crashes.

    • vietnamvet1971

      Let it CRASH & BURN what a good show to watch.

  • montbrun

    Glad the article mentions that piece of…work Nancy Pelosi and what she said
    about OBAMACARE…
    Anywhere else she would have been tarred and feathered but she will not only
    sit out her term but, being from California, be even reelected and replace
    Boehmer as Speaker…
    After all there is not much difference….!!!!!

  • Ranchman

    If the House ends up funding this monstrosity, the 17,000 new IRS agents, at a base salary of, oh, say $48,000, will cost the taxpayers, in paying just for the new IRS agents, $816 billion!!! 816 B..B…Billion dollars!!! That’s more than the initial figure thrown out for the Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP) at $700 Billion!!! Where in the world are these people’s brains at?!? Just to pay the initial cost of the new IRS agents will be $816B. Now it’s not too hard to imagine the $10 Trillion price tag over the next, what was it, 10 years?

    The Communist Manifesto, as wrote about in the early 1950’s by W. Cleon Skousen, the FBI Agent, in “The Naked Communist,” had stated that the Communists were hellbent on destroying America, right? Cloward and Piven, the two hippie reject turned Socialist professors, came up with the strategy to bankrupt the country by overloading the welfare and entitlement system. It’s known as the “Cloward-Piven Strategy,” which Obama learned in college. Presto, we have ObamaCare!!!

    Folks, if we don’t stop Obama and his “healthcare reform,” we won’t have an America much longer. That’s not even to mention all his other totally un-Constitutional freedom destroying programs and policies. If we don’t all unite and rise up against this out of control “government” of ours soon, we’re going to have to fight the American Revolution all over again. How many American Citizens do you think will be willing to take up arms for their own and their children’s freedom today? Roughly 5% of the Colonists fought for America in the Revolution. If we had just 5% today, we would have an army of roughly 16 million Patriots fighting for the American way of life!!! That, my friends, would be one seriously unstoppable force!!!

  • Ranchman

    If the House ends up funding this monstrosity, the 17,000 new IRS agents, at a base salary of, oh, say $48,000, will cost the taxpayers, in paying just for the new IRS agents, $816 billion!!! 816 B..B…Billion dollars!!! That’s more than the initial figure thrown out for the Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP) at $700 Billion!!! Where in the world are these people’s brains at?!? Just to pay the initial cost of the new IRS agents will be $816B. Now it’s not too hard to imagine the $10 Trillion price tag over the next, what was it, 10 years?

    The Communist Manifesto, as wrote about in the early 1950’s by W. Cleon Skousen, the FBI Agent, in “The Naked Communist,” had stated that the Communists were hellbent on destroying America, right? Cloward and Piven, the two hippie reject turned Socialist professors, came up with the strategy to bankrupt the country by overloading the welfare and entitlement system. It’s known as the “Cloward-Piven Strategy,” which Obama learned in college. Presto, we have ObamaCare!!!

    Folks, if we don’t stop Obama and his “healthcare reform,” we won’t have an America much longer. That’s not even to mention all his other totally un-Constitutional freedom destroying programs and policies. If we don’t all unite and rise up against this out of control “government” of ours soon, we’re going to have to fight the American Revolution all over again. How many American Citizens do you think will be willing to take up arms for their own and their children’s freedom today? Roughly 5% of the Colonists fought for America in the Revolution. If we had just 5% today, we would have an army of roughly 16 million Patriots fighting for the American way of life!!! That, my friends, would be one seriously unstoppable force!!!

    • Bryan Jeanfreau

      Look at your calculator again….that 816 million, million with an M.

    • Smitty

      Excellent comments, Ranchman. Thanks for the reminder about Cloward and Piven. I keep asking people I know, if they know about Cloward and Piven, and the answer is almost always ‘no’. So I advise them to search the Cloward/Piven Strategy online. This needs to be exposed to the public. Keep it up !
      Smitty

    • Blank Reg

      Is there a glitch in your calculator? I multiplied 17,000 times an “above base” salary of $60,000 and only got $1.02 billion. For a government that spends $3.5 trillion a year (and only collects enough taxes to cover 60% of it), an extra billion or so is hardly noticeable.

      • TheOriginalDaveH

        What do you suppose they’re spending that other $3.5 Trillion on?

    • TheOriginalDaveH

      17,000 is just the additional IRS agents. You can bet there will be tens of thousands more bureaucrats necessary. And there will be administrative agencies to oversee the administrative agencies. And that doesn’t count the negative-productivity effects of meddling bureaucrats. And it doesn’t count the reduced quality of care as the healthcare industry becomes increasingly populated by people who have nothing to lose if you don’t like their service.

      • WTS/JAY

        Another words, its not about healthcare…its about building a government bureaucracy.

  • Vigilant

    Mr. Wood, you need to either hire a better research staff or do a better job of research yourself.

    The House has already voted 37 times to defund or repeal Obamacare. The Senate has also voted and failed to pass defunding provisions via amendments to the continuing resolution.

    Your idea is neither new, nor would it ever be effective as long as the Senate is controlled by Democrats.

    • Brad

      This is why the 2016 elections are so important. Enough people must be voted in to run this monstrosity into the ground.

      • http://batman-news.com samurai

        What about 2014? Couldn’t we change the numbers in the Senate next year? Here are some articles about Obama bin Laden Care.
        http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/obamacare-regulation-effectively-bars-catholics-owning-health-insurance-companies
        http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/obamacare-delay-mandate/2013/07/02/id/513110?s=al&promo_code=140AD-1
        FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!
        You need both love of country and faith in GOD to be a patriot.
        “Thanksgiving Day is the national pledge of Christian faith in God, acknowledging Him as the dispenser of blessings. This festival should be joyfully and universally observed throughout our whole country as inseparable from American life.”
        Sarah Hale
        Author: Cody’s Lady’s Book

        • smilee

          Even if they succeed, Obama has his veto pen so it is not going to happen in 14 or 15 and by 16 people will see what it really is and like it and it will not effect that vote either. your beating a dead horse.

          • http://batman-news.com samurai

            If you have enough votes, the Senate and Congress can override his veto. Then Obama bin Laden would have to sign it into law. How can you like a program that we don’t need, cannot afford, and is unconstitutional? Not a good American. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!
            You need both love of country and faith in GOD to be a patriot. This leaves you out.
            “A man who lives only for revenge keeps his own wounds green.”
            Francis Bacon
            *So you and Obama bin Laden have green wounds.

          • Vigilant

            Samurai, it’s fruitless arguing with smilee. He’s convinced that there are federal elections in 2015 (see above).

            This is the man who ardently claims that slavery was unconstitutional in the original Constitution. That’s the kind of ignoramus you’re dealing with.

          • http://batman-news.com samurai

            Ha,ha,ha,ha! Well said fellow patriot. But like I’ve told people before, I know the person and he has had it out for me since 2010, when I mopped the floor with him at work. Sometimes a teachers and NCO’s job is never done. Here is an article about the Obama bin Laden Care jobless rate.
            http://www.cowboybyte.com/22824/unemployed-discouraged-underemployed-rate-jumps-to-14-3-highest-since-february/
            FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!
            You need both love of country and faith in GOD to be a patriot.
            “The Bible is no mere book, but a Living Creature, with a power that conquers all that oppose it.”
            Napoleon Bonaparte

          • smilee

            Lies, Lies and more lies, It is what you do best!!

          • smilee

            You said i said there was an election in 2015 I did not go back and read it and see if you can get it right this time

          • smilee

            TRUE!! but we both know that is a pipe dream! The president does not sign vetoed laws overridden by congress. I’ll ignore your last sentence due to its stupidity!!

          • http://batman-news.com samurai

            Wrong answer! Any bit of legislation that the president vetoes, but his veto is overridden, becomes law and must be signed. You are the one that is less intelligent here. Why do I waste my time with someone that has no credibility on the board? I guess that since you can’t attack Jay, Dave H., and others, you thought you could come at me. Sorry due, but your attempt of misdirection, along with attempts at duck and cover, have failed miserably. All laws must be signed in order to become law. Go back to history class and learn what that means. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!
            You need both love of country and faith in GOD to be a patriot. This leaves you out.
            “What students would learn in American schools above all is the religion of Jesus Christ.”
            George Washington
            Founding father
            1st President of the U.S.
            Commander of the Continental Armies
            Devout Christian

          • smilee

            It becomes law without his signature, I really thought you were at least intelligent enough to know that, you disappointment me,

          • Vigilant

            Tell us what election occurs in 2015.

          • smilee

            Never said there was but congress will be in session in 2015 so vetoes can happen in 2015 get it??

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            This being said by a guy who earlier claimed that ObamaCare wasn’t Obama’s fault because he didn’t vote — “True but he had no vote to making it a law!!”

            Your argument changes like the wind, Sleepee. You will switch to whichever side supports your current argument. Typical Dishonest Liberal Progressive.

      • smilee

        People will know what it is by then and will like it that is republicans biggest fears as they then cannot protect the rich from paying for these costs

    • smilee

      37 times, kinda of like watching an inmate in the mental institution banging his head against a brick wall

      • Vigilant

        Don’t try to be cute, it doesn’t become you.

        Anyone with an ability for greater than one-dimensional thinking (that leaves you out) knows that the House is fully aware of the futility of such moves. It does nor expect a different result, as you so obtusely observe.

        It’s being done to keep up the continued awareness of the majority of Americans who oppose Obamacare, and to emphasize the intransigence of the Senate in executing the will of the people.

        Don’t call the GOP obstructionists when it’s Harry Reid who obstructs every effort of the House to reverse the effects of this economy-killing program.

        • Average_Joe56

          “Don’t try to be cute, it doesn’t become you.”
          Trolls never are….
          ;)

          • smilee

            AW come on! You two can do better than this!!!!

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            You can’t.

          • smilee

            I did but simple minds like your cannot comprehend it

  • laura merrone

    Let’s all quit going to the doctor…that would definitely make a difference. Also, refuse health insurance too. I’ve been “doctorless” for 6 years without any problems. My motto is: only go to the doctor if you feel sick or find a cure yourself. I use some herbs and supplements and also eat a healthy diet as much as possible. Health insurance is expensive so that’s the main reason I haven’t had that either. Now, we moved to Germany and there is no VA here so we are relying on the German system for my husband’s pills and doctor visits. Only 25 dollars a visit and 25 dollars for a prescription so not too bad…Glad we got out when we did but we don’t know if Obamacare will have any effect on us here since we work for the US military. I went on line to irs.gov and it was page after page of forms so that didn’t answer any of my questions…real user friendly…

    • Vis Fac

      Unfortunately as we age certain things no longer function properly so intervention is necessary (providing you want to live without pain). The best thing one can do is stay active and avoid tobacco and overindulgence with alcohol and of course drugs. ( just tell that to adolescents). If we continue to “stay the course” as we are, we will eventually become slaves of the government and told how what
      and when we do everything. Hollywierd, Ayn Rand, and George Orwell had some keen insight as to how things would be Orwell’s Animal Farm and 1984 Rand’s Atlas Shrugged and a little known film Logan’s Run. All are insightful and poignant!

      • Karolyn

        Ultimately, the body is designed to heal itself, given the right things, no matter what the age. So much is in the mind.

        • smilee

          Broken legs etc are not in the mind and they do not heal themselves very good without proper medical care and bones do not set themselves.

          • Karolyn

            Of course one needs to go to the Dr. occasionally for an accident. I’ve only had to do that twice in my whole life.

          • smilee

            Some whom get injured need medical help for life. How many times does not matter to them.

        • smilee

          It is also designated to get old and die, do not know many of old age that does not have medical problems and no longer heals itself and then just dies, It will happen to all despite what you say.

          • Karolyn

            I have read many studies that conclude that the body can live well beyond 100. There are specific reasons that the body ages; and eventually, they will be able to figure out how to deal with them. Personally, I don’t know that I would want to live to be 125, especially in this day and age.. At any rate, there’s nothing wrong with death. It’s just another transition – freedom from life on this plane.

    • Karolyn

      THAT is the real answer. Take charge of your own health. Simple! Jusst keep our of the “Sick Care” system. Unfortunately, the masses have made doctors into Gods and have to have medication for everything. However, over the past 10+ years tremendous strides have been made in that direction. More and more people are becoming aware every day. I have friends who have stopped taking pharmaceuticals; and, knowing them, I never would have imagined they would. Thanks to the internet.

      • TheOriginalDaveH

        One thing that we can agree on.

    • smilee

      That is the wrong site for medical. I sure hope you do not get run over by train etc Herbs and vitamins do little for those medical costs

      • laura merrone

        I’d sue the train company of course! Well, I’m careful to not do anything too adventurous and besides I live in a land of social medicine already (Germany) so I really don’t worry about it.

        • smilee

          Good for you!! We should be so lucky!

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Thank you, Sleepee, for showing the readers yet another example of a “compassionate” Liberal Progressive.
            Bob should pay you guys.

          • smilee

            No, I showed you there are systems that can get the job done for everyone at half the cost but you prefer the most expense way and then complain about it, you can not change paying taxes but a means to cut the taxes in half should be attacked to all of you who are so against taxes

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            You did, lol?
            Hopes and Dreams, Smilee. Unfortunately you Hope and Dream with other peoples’ money.
            It’s amazing that you Liberal Progressives are able to rationalize that you are the good guys when in fact you are Forcing your way on people (like rapists) and taking their money (like thieves).

          • smilee

            I respect the laws you do not. Your opinions are also not true but it would be to much to expect more from you.

          • laura merrone

            If we could just imitate Germany, maybe that would work…but that would mean probably giving up our world policeman status and rearranging our priorities and we don’t want to give anything up…

  • jimmie smith

    Single payer, that’s the real goal. The people will get fed up and beg the government to take over this designed mess of ACA. That my friends was Mr. Obama’s plan all along.

  • vietnamvet1971

    I agree, it is time to let this Beast / Monster created from the Big, Bad, Behemoth, Bloated, Bankrupt Gimme-mint DIE it will save a lot of Misery & even save people’s life’s if it is gotten rid of.

  • Average_Joe56

    It still surprises me that people don’t realize the amount of power they have in their wallets. What would happen to this law…and the insurance companies…if 90% of the people called today and canceled their insurance policies,with express notification that we will not reinstate policies until this travesty of a mandate is fully repealed.? How fast do you think these insurance companies will be on the line to congress demanding a repeal? When people start losing money (and lots of it), they tend to listen a bit more to the people withholding that money…US.

    The problem is not the government passing laws…the problem is US…allowing them to get away with it. Ladies and gentlemen, it is time to start “standing our ground” against these elitists who think we are beholden to them…when in reality…they need us to even function. If you are in fair to good health…cancel your policies…and tell them why you are canceling. Don’t just mouth the words that we are upset…because that hasn’t worked in the past and it won’t work now….The only thing they understand is MONEY…cut it off and watch what happens. Stop talking…and start doing!

    Do I stand alone? Or are others going to grow a pair and join in? It matters not to me…I will stand my ground alone if necessary.

    I will not pay, I will not participate, I will not comply.

    • Vis Fac

      I will stand along side you. I will most likely go out in a hail of gunfire for when the DHS (Obama’s SS) swarm over me to take my food, water and livestock as well to disarm me. A few will perish and if enough people resist as I will the idea of “redistribution” and government tyranny might lose its luster. I have served this country with pride and distinction and I will not give in to those who don’t!

      • smilee

        Get your head out of your butt!!

        • Average_Joe56

          Get YOUR head…out of everyone else’s butt… stop trying to mother everyone else. It seems to me that you have an opinion and a plan for everyone but yourself…learn to mind your own business….

          • smilee

            It is easy to get to you just a simple rattling of your cage!!

          • Average_Joe56

            Sorry to burst your bubble, I live in a house. Just because your handlers keep you in a cage, don’t assume that everyone else lives in one as well….Maybe you’re just special…”Short bus” special …that is….(consider your cage rattled…..)

          • smilee

            I do not give a damn were you live! I think a cage might be appropriate for you though!!

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Another desperate Liberal Progressive.

          • Average_Joe56

            “I do not give a damn were you live! I think ”

            Therein lies your problem…you actually…DON”T THINK….

    • Karolyn

      Good for you, Joe. If I had to pay for insurance, I just might do it too.

      • Average_Joe56

        ” If I had to pay for insurance, I just might do it too.”
        Taxpayers pockets, Karolyn?

        • Karolyn

          Joe, If I was not compelled to buy Medicare Part B, I would not have it. As it stands the State pays for it due to my living below the poverty level. I’ve been a taxpayer for 50 years, so I have already paid for it, and as I said if I wasn’t forced to have it, I wouldn’t. I had no health insurance for many years prior to age 65 and did just fine.

          • Average_Joe56

            A friend of mine says he just opted out and they no longer take Medicare from his Social Security check. Worth checking into….

          • smilee

            If he wants back in ever he has to pay a penalty each month therafter. $104.90 each month does not buy much medical services. NOT TO SMART!! Lots of Luck

          • smilee

            Only because you did not get really sick or have as serious accident.

    • smilee

      If I you do i pray you do not have a serious accident or get sick when you do not have insurance. I think you stand alone as your solution is not too smart so most people will not stand with you.

      • TheOriginalDaveH

        Whether most people stand with righteousness or not has no bearing on whether or not a person is doing the right thing.
        Joe is doing the right thing by taking action that does not involve riding on other peoples’ shoulders. You are not, Smilee. How do you hypocrites live with yourselves? You rail about being overcharged or some other self-righteous claim, but then you turn around and Forcibly take advantage of other people. You aren’t as good as the accused overchargers. At least they aren’t Forcing us to buy their products.

        • smilee

          Your entitled to your opinion but it makes no sense and I think your opinion is just silly.

  • mari

    As the courts and the executive branch become more and more unchristian, what will keep them (referring to the friendly IRS) from ruling that if you are biased against gays or abortion, or government oversight of your church then you and your family cannot receive medical attention, or food stamps (when stamps are required to buy food), or a job? Five years ago, I would have chuckled at friends who talked this way…who’s laughing now?

  • Peter Barney

    I hate that Nancy Pelosi. She’s got to get into everything. Her and that Prez. Obama “Comie” Care is unconstitutional.

    • Vis Fac

      That’s Nancy PIGLOSI

      • WTS/JAY

        Is it just me, or does Piglosi always look like she just finished having sex with the Devil?

    • Doc Sarvis

      “unconstitutional” – Not according to the Conservative Supreme Court.

      • Average_Joe56

        Actually, the SCOTUS determined that the mandate was a Tax, rather than a fine (which is correct). The only problem is that all taxes must originate in the House…not in the Senate (as this bill was)….and it wasn’t passed as a tax…..

        If you actually read the SCOTUS’ decision, you would know that…and in that decision, they basically said that the issue…was up to congress to sort it out… They did not however, rule that the Tax itself was Constitutional…only that it “WAS A TAX”.

        BTW, that is being challenged as we speak…because it didn’t originate in the House as a tax…it originated in the Senate…as a fine.

        http://www.aapsonline.org/index.php/site/article/new_lawsuit_challenges_constitutionality_of_patient_protection_and_affordab/

        • independent thinker

          Don’t confuse “doc” with facts it makes his head hurt and he gets surly.

          • Average_Joe56

            I guess , if his head hurts….he’ll need to take two suppositories and call us in the morning ( since we know where his head usually is)
            ;)

          • independent thinker

            Good one Joe56

          • WTS/JAY

            Ditto that!

      • TheOriginalDaveH

        The Supreme Court is a branch of the Federal Government. To expect them not to be biased for the Federal Government is a bit naive.
        The Supreme Court was not intended by the Founders to be the final arbiter of Constitutionality. It just took that Power in the early 1800s while the citizens slumbered in apathy:
        http://www.mises.org/misesreview_detail.aspx?control=134

        • smilee

          Marbury v Madison settled it back in the early 1800’s and it has never been legally challenged and is now considered to be totally settled and will not change despite your silly efforts to say it is not. Some will always try but your beating a dead horse with no means to rise it from the dead.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            It’s legally settled by me that you have no credibility, Sleepee.
            It doesn’t hold any water at all to say — because somebody broke the law and got away with it in the past, then it no longer is the law.
            And no generation can bind future generations contractually, anyway. Of course if you’re the binder you would want to argue otherwise. Too bad.

            Now get back to your nap, Sleepee.

          • smilee

            More silly BS

      • smilee

        Majority counts so go cry me a river!!

  • Average_Joe56

    Adam Kokesh did what he said he would do . He risked his life and his freedom to keep his word…He stood alone….What does that say about American values? It says, that we talk a good game, but when it comes to taking action…We Are Cowards! Stand up for what you believe in…enough talking folks….stand and be counted or sit down and be quiet!
    http://clashdaily.com/2013/07/adam-kokesh-did-it-an-armed-march-on-d-c-july-4th-2013/

    “If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.”
    ― Samuel Adams

    • http://batman-news.com samurai

      That is true fellow patriot, but then why doesn’t the 5th columners on this site learn from this? Are they far from having the ability to understand? Here is an article that is both bad and good news for Obama bin Laden.
      http://www.humanevents.com/2013/07/01/nfl-says-no-to-promoting-obamacare-teachers-librarians-take-up-the-slack/
      Here is one showing how Obama bin Laden Care has divided this country into 2 halves.
      http://www.lastresistance.com/2539/the-full-effect-of-obamacare-a-two-class-nation/
      FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!
      You need both love of country and faith in GOD to be a patriot.
      “The church must take right ground in regard to politics. Politics are part of a religion in a country as this, and Christians must do their duty to their country as a part of their duty to God.”
      Rev. Charles Finney

      • Average_Joe56

        I believe that the major problem is…the people are AFRAID of their government. Talking is fine, it will get them in minimal trouble with their masters (unless it’s a direct threat against the master “Class”). But, actually doing something…scares the hell out of them…plain and simple. I have many friends who agree with my views, but when I suggest that they take an actual stand, I get the standard,” We can’t get everyone to stand with us, we’ll end up in jail”. This is what the government likes to hear, these people have “defeatist attitudes”. They have lost the fight, without having even engaged their enemy. Everyone is “afraid” that nobody will stand with them…therefore, why stand at all? Until we as individuals start standing alone….nobody else “CAN” stand with us…because we aren’t standing…to be stood with.

        It only takes one person…to start a movement…Be that person!

        • Karolyn

          I believe you’re right, Joe; but you first. What will you do first? I’ve seen a picture of the 1000s of Egyptians demonstrating with the caption of “What’s wrong with Americans” or something to that effect. It takes the young who are too full of themselves to do anything. On the other hand, there are 1000s of young conservatives and libertarians. Also, I have seen a lot of negativity coming from the left on sites like “Common Dreams too,” so there should even be support from that camp.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            I don’t think that’s the kind of support that Joe is seeking.

          • Average_Joe56

            “I believe you’re right, Joe; but you first. What will you do first? ”

            1.Civil disobedience , which I practice daily.

            2. I withhold my money, by not buying their products.

            3. I have canceled my insurance policies…and told them why. I even canceled my car insurance and turned in my tag for a while .I did this in protest over “Red-Light” cameras…I am 6 miles from town…and have found that I enjoy riding my bicycle again.
            ( No Karolyn, I haven’t gotten a ticket from the cameras…they are a cash cow for the city and state and Unconstitutional)
            4. I support my local economy and not the national and international Mega Corporations.
            I buy my produce ( what I don’t grow myself) and my meats from local farmers and butchers…I don’t shop the Big Box stores anymore…I don’t like GMO’s in my food. I know what’s in my food…do you?

            5. I buy American…other than my Firearms….but some of those are American made…and all were bought from other American’s.
            BTW, my next project is in the works now…an aquaponics setup…fresh fish and a garden that is self sustaining.
            And you’ve done?

          • Karolyn

            I’m not being facetious when I say good for you Joe. I applaud you. Yes, I am quite aware of what is in my food and do buy local as much as possible. Unfortunately, I live in a very rural area and need a car. Also unfortunately, not everyone can follow all your examples if they want to make a living. Not everyone is as self-sufficient as you.

  • Scifidave

    This article is oozing with partisan bias.

    Obamacare is a title created by Republicans to taint this legislation with a strong anti-Obama bias even though the President didn’t write it or pass it. Congress wrote it with the help of lobbyists from the various affected industries.

    The assertion that no one in Congress has read this is nothing less than absurd. Congressmen have staffers that pour over legislation. How do you think they came up with the 2700 pages of modifications? Keep in mind, we’re talking about a piece of legislation that encompasses several interrelated industries, all of which put their mark on it.

    Interesting that Mr. Wood repeats the false claim that this legislation will increase insurance costs, ignoring the fact that insurance premiums in California – the most populous state – have dropped because of changes made by this legislation, even though many of the provisions are a freebie hand-off to insurance companies and medical providers.

    Since we are all in this together it only seems fair that all of us share the burden of health care costs rather than rewarding those who are lucky enough to be healthy and punishing those who are damaged in various ways. most often through no fault of their own.

    The emphasis is on preventive care, which will reduce costs in the long run, rather than the current system that focuses on providing care after the fact, which is one of the primary reasons why health care is so expensive now.

    * Senate Republican leaders Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) and John Cornyn (R-Texas) sent the five major professional sports leagues a letter urging them not to do so. Would you expect anything less from Republicans? They are in the business of damaging Obama’s presidency in any way they can. If you recall McConnell told us that keeping Obama from a second term was their #1 priority. Not jobs or fixing the economy, and they’ve done exactly that and nothing, and I mean nothing, more. That’s not leadership, that’s ugly politics at its worst.

    As to Sarah Palin, the quitter, if you take anything to heart that she has to say then you are nothing short of deluded or stupid.

    • http://batman-news.com samurai

      Long rant by a sheeple. Boring! Here is an article that shows the taxpayers will be supporting Obama bin Laden Care. The government will take some of my money to support this program and some deadbeat, but without my permission? Sounds unconstitutional to me, violates Commerce Clause of the Constitution.
      http://www.westernjournalism.com/u-s-taxpayer-to-pay-obamacare-costs-for-all-the-states/
      Here is one showing it empowering the IRS.
      http://www.westernjournalism.com/how-obamacare-empowers-the-irs/
      Don’t sound like a good program for me. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!
      You need both love of country and faith in GOD to be a patriot.
      “Men, in a word, must necessarily be controlled either by a power within them, or by a power without them; either by the Word of God, or by the strong arm of man; either by the Bible or the bayonet.”
      Robert Winthrop
      Founding father
      Devout Christian

      • Bob666

        spoken by a guy who has received a government paycheck all of his life.

      • Scifidave

        I’m sure you didn’t call Bush, Bush Bin Laden after he lied his way into a war in Iraq or facilitated the financial rape of America.

        The problem with people like you is that you think name calling gives you some sense of superiority. You got a case to make, make it without sounding like juvenile or a necon pundit.

        * You need both love of country and faith in GOD to be a patriot.”Men, in a word, must necessarily be controlled either by a power within them, or by a power without them; either by the Word of God, or by the strong arm of man; either by the Bible or the bayonet.”
        Robert Winthrop
        Founding father
        Devout Christian

        I don’t need to believe in some mythical being to be a patriot. And I damn sure don’t need some religious puppet telling me how to live.

        • TheOriginalDaveH

          SciDave says — “I’m sure you didn’t call Bush, Bush Bin Laden after he lied his way into a war in Iraq or facilitated the financial rape of America”.
          You know nothing about what we thought of Bush. But newsflash, SciDave — Bush is gone! Get used to it.

          • WTS/JAY

            Actually, Bush is still in the White-House; or at least his policies are!

        • TheOriginalDaveH

          SciDave says — “I don’t need to believe in some mythical being to be a patriot. And I damn sure don’t need some religious puppet telling me how to live”.

          Neither do I, but unlike SciDave I also don’t worship at the mythical alter of Liberal Progressivism where Hopes and Dreams substitute for Reality and Logic.

          How can any human with half-a-brain deny the reality that Socialism has been a failure wherever it has been fully implemented (no Capitalism allowed)? Socialism can only exist by riding like a parasite on the shoulders of Capitalists.

          Those innocent readers who would like to be awakened from the Propaganda can just study this ranking of countries based on their level of Economic Freedom (read Smaller Government):
          http://www.heritage.org/index/ranking

          Then check out the economies of those countries at the bottom of the list (those with the most Socialism):
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita

          • Scifidave

            * Neither do I, but unlike SciDave I also don’t worship at the mythical alter of Liberal Progressivism where Hopes and Dreams substitute for Reality and Logic.

            Banding about meaningless catch phrases, are we? Surely you can do better than that.

            Yes, you silly man, socialism doesn’t work. Never has. So, tell me, how is that relevant to anything being discussed here?

            Please, don’t waste my time citing the Heritage Foundation. The disinformation and twisted logic produced by that neocon organization is worthless in any intelligent discussion.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Ad Hominem attack after ad hominem attack. Surely, SciDave you can do better than that? Or maybe you can’t. So far, all I’ve seen in your comments is generic Liberal Progressive manipulative techniques.
            Here’s another agency (Fraser Institute) that ranks countries by their Economic Freedom:
            http://www.freetheworld.com/2012/EFW2012-complete.pdf
            And SciDave, feel free to provide references to reputable agencies which refute either of the Institutes’ findings.
            Or be yourself (a useless Liberal Progressive) and launch ad hominem attacks instead.
            By the way, I write these comments to show average readers a better way than the manipulation they incur at the hands of Progressives (be they Liberal or NeoCon). I don’t care if you read them (or believe them) or Not.
            I doubt, SciDave, that your obvious level of ignorance could be overcome by any amount of facts or logic.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            SciDave says — “Yes, you silly man, socialism doesn’t work. Never has. So, tell me, how is that relevant to anything being discussed here?”.
            “silly man” — typical Liberal Progressive manipulative technique.
            We were discussing Government-controlled Healthcare, SciDave, which is a product of Socialism, that is — Government controlling the Marketplace.
            Here is an analysis of Socialism by the late great Ludwig Von Mises:
            http://library.mises.org/books/Ludwig%20von%20Mises/Socialism%20An%20Economic%20and%20Sociological%20Analysis.pdf
            Here is a shorter discussion by Ludwig:
            http://mises.org/daily/6277/Socialism

            Of course SciDave, being the learning-resistant Liberal Progressive that he is, will launch some form of ad hominem attack on Ludwig Von Mises instead of addressing the argument.
            But who cares, Folks? Let SciDave and his ignorant Liberal Progressive ilk remain ignorant, but educate yourselves so you know how to put these poor excuses of human beings in their place.

          • Scifidave

            Gov’t controlled health care. Where have you been? All aspect of business is gov’t controlled to one degree or another. That’s not socialism, but then anything the gov’t does is considered socialism by some people.

            Any time neocons don’t like the gov’t getting involved in business they scream ‘soclaism!” It’s the ‘big scare’ word, but quite meaningless.

            To put a point on it I’d much rather be a progressive forward thinker than someone who wants to return to a past that never really existed.

            Let me also point out the the states that have the poorest record in just about everything are red states. That’s neo-conservatism for you.

    • Vis Fac

      Have you ever known a government program that does NOT increase costs? SO how did the original 2700 page balloon to over 20,000 pages BEFORE implementation? I suppose you’re going to tell all of us that some staff member read those as well. Why is it that you liberals feel that you know how each and everyone of us should live OUR lives and believe YOU have the right to dictate policy? I have some news for you YOU don’t One other thing Government couldn’t administer a cake auction let alone health care. Look at how the USPS is floundering with inept mis-management to the point of bankruptcy three times even. And you want Government to provide and manage health care? If government were as good at providing services; and again I’ll refer to the USPS, and its ability to compete with “private enterprise” why is there a need for UPS DHL FedEx and the like? Simple; Government is incompetent. It cannot play by the rules government is corrupt! And you want them playing politics with your health? Now that is just plain STUPID!

      • Scifidave

        There are a multitude of government programs that have saved our country billions and done for us quite well. This blanket statement is false and juvenile.

        I’d list them here, but anyone who can click a mouse can find that out.

        That said, I think money and partisan politics has so corrupted our government that getting good legislation passed is a pipe dream. The Affordable Health Care Act has already made some positive changes that we should all be happy with, yet there are hand-offs to the involved industries that were added to help them keep their profits high.

        What I would like to see is, all who find fault with this act come up with viable alternatives without the partisanship that has hobbled Congress and to get out there and let your representatives know what, precisely, you have a problem with and how to make it better.

        So far the GOP has not put forth a viable a alternative or reasonable fixes. What I can see is all the GOP wants is excuses to bash Obama without taking responsibility for their dishonesty and pandering to the rich.

        That said, I think the Democrats could do better as well.

        What is stupid is not so much the government, because it is made up of millions of hard workers who want to do a good job, but the politics of greed and partisanship. What is stupid here is blanket generalizations and condemnations that have little basis in fact.

        • Average_Joe56

          Nothing that the government does ever comes in under budget or even close to ‘On budget”…
          Back in 1990, the Government seized the Mustang Ranch brothel in Nevada for tax evasion and, as required by law, tried to run it. They failed and it closed. Now we are trusting the economy of our country, our banking system, our auto industry and our health plans to the same nit-wits who couldn’t make money running a whorehouse and selling whiskey?

          What in the hell were / are we thinking?

          • Scifidave

            I never said the gov’t does everything right, but your blanket statement that the gov’t can’t get anything right or bring it in under budget is flat wrong.

            The Mustang Ranch was a one-off situation that the gov’t had no experience in running and it’s a pretty lame example.

            Our gov’t built the national highway system and did a damn fine job of it. I could list hundreds of examples, but you are right, the puny little operation called the Mustang Ranch is absolutely the right issue for you to base your opinion of the entire gov’t on.

          • WTS/JAY

            Scifidave: I never said the gov’t does everything right, but your blanket statement that the gov’t can’t get anything right or bring it in under budget is flat wrong.

            The Mustang Ranch was a one-off situation that the gov’t had no experience in running and it’s a pretty lame example.

            Actually, its the perfect example. Btw, name one program where government got it right and under-budget?

            Scifidave: Our gov’t built the national highway system and did a damn fine job of it.

            Governments didn’t build the national highways.

            Scifidave: I could list hundreds of examples…

            So why don’t you?

          • Bob666

            OK Jay,
            Just who built the National Interstate system and other public Infrastructure???

            I know this one is going to be good.

          • WTS/JAY

            Well it wasn’t the government, 666. They just allocated and disbursed the funds for private companies to build the public-infrustructure, that’s all. And i’ll bet you my last dollar, the idiots over-paid for it. No doubt!

          • Bob666

            Well Jay,

            You are partially correct. My firm as been involved in about fifteen billion dollars worth of infrastructure development and construction regarding design and engineering services in the last ten years.

            The vast majority of our contracts are with state DOT’s and transportation authorities, and we had to be “Low Bidder” out of a prequalified group. The construction industry is one of the purest forms of capitalism and heavy infrastructure contractors do not achieve an ample return on the risk they take in building these projects.

            A new twist with private capital are 3P projects (public-private partnerships) where government lets the private sector deign-build and operate roadway systems on a long term lease via tolls. This has been taking place in Europe for decades and started here in the US about five years ago with projects in about five states.

            Here is one developing here in central Florida:

            http://www.moving-4-ward.com/

            The jury is out in Florida on how effective these projects will be as the Miami tunnel (French) and I-595 in Ft. Lauderdale (Spanish) have yet to be completed.

            3P’s aside, most infrastructure construction & maintenance is funded by your tax dollars via fuel tax.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            What you did say, SciDave, is — “There are a multitude of government programs that have saved our country billions and done for us quite well. This blanket statement is false and juvenile.I’d list them here, but anyone who can click a mouse can find that out”.

            So how about backing that up with some references? Don’t tell me — I don’t need no damn references, I’m a Liberal Progressive.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            SciDave says — “Our gov’t built the national highway system and did a damn fine job of it”.
            Your conjecture is meaningless, SciDave. And it’s telling that you think that is a defense of your original statement that they “saved our country billions”.
            Is that why cash-strapped local Governments are going to toll roads in many places — because they’re just too ignorant to let the Feds do it and save “our country billions”?
            Some common sense:
            http://mises.org/books/roads_web.pdf

            You’re a joke, SciDave. But please keep posting. We can use all the illogical Liberal Progressives we can get on this board to show the average reader what you guys are really made of.

        • TheOriginalDaveH

          SciDave says — “There are a multitude of government programs that have saved our country billions and done for us quite well. This blanket statement is false and juvenile.
          I’d list them here, but anyone who can click a mouse can find that out”.

          He disses Recon’s statement as “juvenile” and then cops out of providing any evidence with his next sentence. If SciDave isn’t a typical Liberal Progressive, I don’t know who is.
          The very nature of Government Force precludes the truthfulness of SciDave’s conjecture. If indeed the programs were cost-effective then the Liberal Progressives could sell them to voluntary purchasers instead of FORCING people to participate.

          • Scifidave

            There is a huge, deeply funded cadre (among them the Koch brothers) who are opposed to anything that limits their ability to financially rape and pillage without fear.

            The intent of ACA is to reduce medical costs and to provide medical care to those who insurance companies either refuse to insure or want to charge exorbitant rates to cover. Medical and insurance are among the most profitable industries and they will fight tooth and nail to continue the financial rape of America.

            I’d like to see the Republicans produce a care act that helps Americans as opposed to lining the pockets of Congressional benefactors.

            Until they (or you and your fellow neocons) can come up with that I’d say we have nothing more to talk about here. And please, don’t insult me by citing neocon think tanks like the Heritage Foundation or the Reason Foundation. They are far too partisan to add anything credible to this discussion..

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Reason Foundation a NeoCon think tank? You’re a joke, SciDave. You obviously have no idea what a NeoCon is. One of the defining characteristics, for instance, is their proclivity for meddling in other countries’ affairs, which is anathema for Libertarians. Read this, Ignoramus:
            http://mises.org/daily/5635/Neoconservatism-Taken-Down
            Reason is a Libertarian think tank and they stump for Free Markets. The last thing Crony Capitalists want is Free Markets. It’s much easier to buy their favorite Politicians than to please their consumers. You might know that, SciDave, if you did any actual thinking and studying.

            For those who aren’t as purposely ignorant as SciDave:
            http://www.amazon.com/The-Big-Ripoff-Business-Government/dp/0471789070

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            SciDave says — “The intent of ACA is to reduce medical costs and to provide medical care to those who insurance companies either refuse to insure or want to charge exorbitant rates to cover”.
            I don’t give a rat’s butt, SciDave, what their “intent” is. What I care about is that you evil people are Stealing money from people and Forcing your way on people.
            I’m sure there are even Rapists out there who would rationalize their aberrant behavior like you Liberal Progressives do yours.

        • TheOriginalDaveH

          SciDave says — “What I would like to see is, all who find fault with this act come up with viable alternatives without the partisanship that has hobbled Congress and to get out there and let your representatives know what, precisely, you have a problem with and how to make it better”.
          Free Markets, SciDave. You know, those places where individuals can decide for themselves whether they want to purchase a product or not, those places where Liberal Progressives can’t FORCE their way on other people.
          Progressives have been meddling with, and mucking up our medical industry for over 100 years. And each time their newly-created programs fail, their solution is to throw more gasoline on the fire and add even more regulation.
          For thinking people (yes SciDave, that leaves you out):
          http://mises.org/daily/3793

        • WTS/JAY

          scifidave: There are a multitude of government programs that have saved our country billions and done for us quite well. This blanket statement is false and juvenile. I’d list them here, but anyone who can click a mouse can find that out.

          Another words, these programs don’t exist.

          • Scifidave

            Now you’re just talking stupid.

          • WTS/JAY

            You are the one who claims these programs exist, yet you refuse to provide a list. Why is that?

        • Frank Kahn

          Here is a blanket generalization with no support.

          “There are a multitude of government programs that have saved our country billions and done for us quite well. This blanket statement is false and juvenile.

          I’d list them here, but anyone who can click a mouse can find that out.”

          First, let me state that I am a computer professional, so no inane remarks about ability or understanding.

          Since reading your possibly false and definitely juvenile post,

          I have clicked my mouse (touch pad) 100 times, and not one time did something, about programs of the government saving billions of dollars, pop onto my screen. So we know that your assertion that clicking my mouse will show me, what you are talking about, is all I need is wrong (false).

          It is definitely juvenile to make a bald assertion about something and then refuse to give references to support it. Not only did you not give names to the programs, you didn’t even give us a time frame or administration where it happened.

          It is not required, that the republicans take responsibility for their failures. They not only have the right, but also the responsibility to expose the failures of the president.

          • smilee

            How about Congresses failures as the president cannot fail unless he signs a bill into law that is a bad bill but they are not passsing many so

          • smilee

            How about Congresses failures as the president cannot fail unless he signs a bill into law that is a bad bill but they are not passing many thus preventing him from signing any thus he is not failing

            Sorry about above hit enter by mistake.

          • Frank Kahn

            WRONG AGAIN SMIRKY, THE PRESIDENT CAN AND HAS FAILED MANY TIMES WITHOUT SIGNING ANY BILLS. HE FAILED TO SAVE THE WORKERS JOBS AT GM. HE FAILED TO SHOW ANY RETURN ON INVESTMENT IN GREEN ENERGY STIMULUS INVESTMENTS. HE FAILED TO PRODUCE ANY OF THOSE SHOVEL READY JOBS HE PROMISED. HE FAILED TO STIMULATE THE ECONOMY. HE FAILED TO REDUCE THE UNEMPLOYMENT RATE. HE FAILED TO SUPPORT THE RELIGIOUS FREEDOMS OF CHRISTIANS. HE FAILS TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE FACT THAT WE ARE AT WAR WITH ISLAM (ISLAMIC TERRORISTS). HE FAILS TO SUPPORT ANYTHING THAT IS CONSISTENT WITH NORMAL MAINSTREAM AMERICAN IDEALS. HE IS SUCCESSFUL AT DIVIDING THE NATION ALONG RACIAL, ETHNIC, RELIGIOUS AND ECONOMIC STATUS. HE IS SUCCESSFUL IN BLAMING ALL HIS FAILURES ON PRESIDENT BUSH. HE IS SUCCESSFUL AT SUPPORTING CRIMINAL BEHAVIOR OF LABOR UNIONS. HE IS SUCCESSFUL AT SUPPORTING THE IMMORAL HOMOSEXUAL LIFESTYLE. HE IS SUCCESSFUL AT PROMOTING THE KILLING OF BABIES. HE IS SUCCESSFUL AT LYING TO EVERYONE ABOUT EVERYTHING HE DOES. HE IS SUCCESSFUL AT AVOIDING THE CRIMINAL PROSECUTION THAT HE DESERVES.

            HE IS A LYING HATEFUL ANTI-AMERICAN PSYCHOPATH BUT HEY, HE HAS MANAGED TO SUCCESSFULLY CON ENOUGH IGNORANT PEOPLE INTO BELIEVING HIS LIES.

            NOW, ABOUT THE FAILURES OF CONGRESS. YES, THEY HAVE FAILED TO CONTROL OBAMAS USURPATION OF POWER. THEY HAVE NOT BROUGHT CHARGES OF IMPEACHMENT FOR THE CRIMINAL ACTIVITIES FOSTERED BY OBAMA. THEY FAILED TO PREVENT THAT DISASTROUS MONSTROSITY NICKNAMED OBAMACARE. YES, CONGRESS HAS MANY FAILURES TO ANSWER FOR.

        • smilee

          Could not said it better myself!!

    • independent thinker

      “… the President didn’t write it or pass it.”
      he didn’t write it he was too busy playing golf so he told one of his minions what he wanted and they wrote it. He did not pass it because he has no vote in congress HOWEVER his party passed it with his approval and obama then signed it into law while praising it as the best thing since God made dirt.

      • TheOriginalDaveH

        Obama was very active in getting the bill passed. Apparently SciDave forgot that little detail.

        • smilee

          True but he had no vote to making it a law!!

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            He had the ultimate vote — His signature and veto power.
            Are you really that ignorant, Sleepee? Or are you just a deceiver? I suspect the latter.

          • smilee

            His signature is an approval on those that get a vote but his signature is not a vote. He can change nothing he can either accept or reject any with voting power can amend

      • WTS/JAY

        Surprise: The People Who Wrote the ObamaCare Bill Have Exempted Themselves from Its Provisions.

        While everyone else in the United States — from the top corporate executives to the grocery store checkout clerk — will be forced to buy their insurance through heavily regulated state-run exchanges, the health care bill excludes one group: the [congressional] leadership and committee staff. Yes, that’s right. The very people who wrote up this bill are refusing to be included themselves.

        Given the narrow definition of “congressional staff” on page 158 of the health care bill, the Congressional Research Service memo believes that courts will not require “professional committee staff, joint committee staff, some shared staff, as well as potentially those staff employed by leadership offices” to go through the exchanges.

        President Obama and his family are also exempt from the law.

        See more at: http://healthblog.ncpa.org/surprise-the-people-who-wrote-the-obamacare-bill-have-exempted-themselves-from-its-provisions/#sthash.wtVGiwaO.dpuf

    • rhondareichel

      Who do you think you are talking to? I know better. My insurance went up immediately after Obamacare passed….and my agent assures me it’s going up again.
      One of the primary reasons insurance is so high now is the politicians are in bed with the insurance and drug companies….Obamacare doesn’t do one thing to change that…..it was always a reward for those 2 industries. Another reason is illegal aliens use emergency rooms for free while we, the insured, pick up the tab. is that going to change? Nope. The Amnesty will not require them to purchase insurance will it? & how would that be enforced if it did? In fact it exempts them from Obamacare.
      Get your facts straight.

      • smilee

        Obamacare insurance regulations do not go into effect until next year. That was not the reason your premiums went up and your agent has no part in setting premiums and I doubt the 2014 rates are out as yet. Your a fine one for saying “get your facts straight” when you have not!!

    • JRR

      I see you conveniently left out the fact that Muslims are excused from having to pay into Obamacare (as are illegal aliens), but will of course have full access to the benefits of care, at the expense of the rest of us.

      If you can’t see that with the sky-high birthrates of Muslims and (mostly Mexican) illegal aliens, there will come a day when each paying (mostly middle class) American is paying for three, then five, then eight, then twelve Muslims and/or Mexicans (and that is in addition to paying for non-paying non-Muslim Americans), then YOU are nothing short of deluded or stupid. This is not rocket science; you don’t need a special calculator to figure this out.

      Whenever a middle class American reaches a point where it is impossible to both pay Obamacare, and also pay his/her living expenses, what do you think is going to happen? That’s why the IRS has direct lines into our bank accounts. Obamacare gets its money first. And when the IRS has drained the accounts and there is no money to pay Obamacare, then the IRS will undoubtedly exercise its most impressive skill: confiscating homes.

      Since Americans will be losing everything, groups with money will be buying the homes (as opposed to other Americans buying them). Right now, that would be the Muslims and the Chinese.

      Poor blind, lazy, sports-and-entertainment addicted middle class Americans: Obamacare is a gun aimed straight at your foreheads.

      Non-blind, lazy, etc. Americans who can afford to do so have already fled the country, or are currently doing so (at a rate of 54 per minute, 24/7, every day of the year).

      For a beginning of education, I suggest looking up the definition of “dhimmitude.”

    • TheOriginalDaveH

      Lots of conjecture and ad hominem attacks, SciDave, but no supporting evidence. Why is that? Here is some reality about the dropping rates in California as touted by Liberal Progressive SciDave:
      http://reason.com/blog/2013/05/31/obamacares-california-home-run-is-actual

      Those readers, who would like to do a little in-depth thinking about Government involvement in the medical industry, should read this article by the late-great Murray Rothbard which pre-dates Obamacare:
      http://mises.org/daily/6099/Government-Medical-Insurance

    • Protonius

      Really? Want to see the REAL numbers and ramifications of Obamacare? Just read THE OBAMACARE SURVIVAL GUIDE or Betsy McCaughey’s excellent book BEATING OBAMACARE. Also, just wait until you reach the age of 65 (or are you already there?) — and THEN, once Obamacare more fully kicks-in, see what kind of care you’ll get (or be denied) at your moment of need.

      • Scifidave

        Betsy McCaughey is a former Republican who became a Democrat just long enough to run for New York governership. She is deeply involved with the Reason Foundation, a self-described libertarian think tank funded by the Koch Brothers and is a favorite of Rush Limbaugh, thus rendering her opinions as tainted and unreliable. If that’s the best you can do, then you’ve got nothing credible to use as a reference. Try harder.

      • smilee

        That book is nothing more than conservative propaganda. Obamacare has already kicked in for seniors, more preventive care and the first reduction of the doughnut hole is in effect which will in the next five years be eraased. There is nothing in the law that takes anything away from Medicare or senior health care. If you want the real truth read the bill not his book it will lead you astray. Oh by the way I was over 65 when the law was passed and it had only gotten better and will continue so in the future. There are no denials in the law period!!!

    • smilee

      Terrific but the truth does not go far on this site, notice all the references to all those propaganda sites as that is all they read and it tells them what they want to believe and they do not care a hoot about the truth.

      • TheOriginalDaveH

        Yeah, notice those references that are provided by people who offer more than Liberal Progressive conjecture and ad hominem attacks.

      • Frank Kahn

        The truth never penetrates your liberal shielding. If you have some references to support the absurd claims of scifidave, please share them.

    • Frank Kahn

      ScifiDave, seems to be an appropriate name for you. You languish in fiction. Not surprising for a liberal. Some items, in your post are ass backwards, others are incorrect assumptions and / or unsupportable opinions.

      “Obamacare is a title created by Republicans to taint this legislation
      with a strong anti-Obama bias even though the President didn’t write it
      or pass it. Congress wrote it with the help of lobbyists from the
      various affected industries.

      The term Obamacare is a label given the bill due to the fact that it is Obama’s dream child. He pushed for, championed and even insisted that this national mandated health care insurance bill be written and passed. Although it is fashioned after the “Romney care” of Massachusetts, it is still Obama’s. Who actually wrote it is still questionable. Since the supreme court declared the penalty to be a tax, it had to originate in a specific part of congress, it did not.

      “The assertion that no one in Congress has read this is nothing less
      than absurd. Congressmen have staffers that pour over legislation. How do you think they came up with the 2700 pages of modifications? Keep in mind, we’re talking about a piece of legislation that encompasses several interrelated industries, all of which put their mark on it.”

      The assertion was that no one in congress read the entire bill before voting on it. This is much different than reading it after passage. There was insufficient time for them to read it prior to their voting.

      “Interesting that Mr. Wood repeats the false claim that this
      legislation will increase insurance costs, ignoring the fact that
      insurance premiums in California – the most populous state – have
      dropped because of changes made by this legislation, even though many of the provisions are a freebie hand-off to insurance companies and medical providers.”

      Interesting that you ignore the fact that it has already pushed the price of premiums higher for the majority of policy holders. You also ignore the fact that several major providers have projected new increases when the bill is fully activated. Siting a situation that has occurred in California, which may or may not be an effect of the act, just because it is the most populous state in the union is not a valid point. It is conceivably possible that California has an extremely high percentage of high risk people. In that case, the cost of their premiums falling drastically, could skew the average cost of coverage. You also have to look at the average as opposed to the individual. If 20 peoples premiums drop enough to cancel the raise in cost to 2,000 people, it looks like it did not raise premiums. That is not true, 2,000 people have been hurt, just to subsidize the insurance of 20.

      “Since we are all in this together it only seems fair”

      Yes, to a liberal, it SEEMS FAIR, to punish everyone else for the problems of a few.

      “that all of us share the burden of health care costs rather than rewarding those who are lucky enough to be healthy and punishing those who are damaged in various ways. most often through no fault of their own.”

      Here is the one that you have seriously backwards. Actually, why is it fair to punish those fortunate enough to be healthy just to reward those few who have problems that are not their fault. I am sorry that your relative has some severe medical condition, that is life threatening, however, it is neither my responsibility nor my duty to solve your medical problems with my money. When you liberals learn the difference between, I will help all I can, and we will force you to help as much as we require, you will finally be part of normal society.

      “The emphasis is on preventive care, which will reduce costs in the
      long run, rather than the current system that focuses on providing care after the fact, which is one of the primary reasons why health care is so expensive now.”

      Totally incorrect, and probably a result of ignorance. The bill focuses on forcing everyone to BUY HEALTH CARE INSURANCE, regardless of need. It subsidizes insurance companies and strengthens their customer base by forcing customers to buy their products. It has not even one provision that will reduce the actual cost of health care. What you are claiming is a result of the medical system, not insurance. Public hospitals are required to provide services to patients regardless of their ability to pay. Doctors are not under this same legal imperative. This means that a poor person, without insurance, HAS to wait until they can use the hospital emergency room for treatment, because nobody will accept them before that. Subsidizing doctor visits for these people would reduce the burden on the system and at a much smaller price tag than attempting to subsidize the entire health care insurance industry. Even this does not reduce the cost of health care, it only reduces the cost of treating an individual case.

      “* Senate Republican leaders Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) and John Cornyn (R-Texas) sent the five major professional sports leagues a letter urging them not to do so. Would you expect anything less from
      Republicans? They are in the business of damaging Obama’s presidency in any way they can. If you recall McConnell told us that keeping Obama from a second term was their #1 priority. Not jobs or fixing the economy, and they’ve done exactly that and nothing, and I mean nothing, more. That’s not leadership, that’s ugly politics at its worst.”

      Urging them not to promote the erroneous propaganda of the liberals is not an attempt to damage Obama. The rest of your statement is a matter of opinion. Obama is totally incapable of jobs creation, and he hasn’t got a clue how to fix the economy. He has negative effects on both those items. So, when the republicans aim at removing Obama from office, they are, in fact, working hard at solving the jobs and economy problems. That is not politics, ugly or otherwise, that is good representative leadership.

      “As to Sarah Palin, the quitter, if you take anything to heart that
      she has to say then you are nothing short of deluded or stupid”

      So you want to stoop to enmity and name calling? Lets investigate your probable support for Hillary Clinton. Talk about a quitter, she quit trying to provide defense for the US citizens in Libya. Afterwards, during the hearings she said, “what does it matter” in reference to the deaths. She lied about what she knew and when. She is no better than the liar that is her husband, or the current liar posing as president. If you think she will be good for this country, instead of being even worse than Obama, then you are the one who is deluded AND stupid.

      • Scifidave

        The word ‘Obamacare’ was first put in print in March 2007, according to The New York Times, when health care lobbyist Jeanne Schulte Scott penned it in a health industry journal. It was used by her and subsequently the GOP as a means of demeaning President Obama and the ACA.

        Let me quote:

        The plan that ultimately became the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act consists of a combination of measures to control health care costs and an insurance expansion thought public insurance (expanded Medicaid eligibility and Medicare coverage expansion) and subsidized, regulated private insurance. The latter of these ideas forms the core of the law’s insurance expansion, and it has been included in bipartisan reform proposals in the past. In particular, the idea of an individual mandate coupled with subsidies for private insurance, as an alternative to public insurance, was considered a way to get Universal Health Insurance that could win the support of the Senate. Many healthcare policy experts have pointed out that the individual mandate requirement to buy health insurance was contained in many previous proposals by Republicans for healthcare legislation, going back as far as 1989, when it was initially proposed by thepolitically conservative Heritage Foundation as an alternative to single-payer health care.[156] The idea of an individual mandate was championed byRepublican politicians as a market-based approach to health-care reform, on the basis of individual responsibility: because the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act (EMTALA), passed in 1986 by a bipartisan Congress and signed by Ronald Reagan, requires any hospital participating in Medicare (nearly all do) to provide emergency care to anyone who needs it, the government often indirectly bore the cost of those without the ability to pay.[157][158][159]

        When, in 1993, President Bill Clinton proposed a health-care reform bill which included a mandate for employers to provide health insurance to all employees through a regulated marketplace of health maintenance organizations, Republican Senators proposed a bill that would have required individuals, and not employers, to buy insurance, as an alternative to Clinton’s plan.[158] Ultimately the Clinton plan failed amid concerns that it was overly complex or unrealistic, and in the face of an unprecedented barrage of negative advertising funded by politically conservative groups and the health-insurance industry.[160] (After failing to obtain a comprehensive reform of the health care system, Clinton did however negotiate a compromise with the 105th Congress to instead enact theState Children’s Health Insurance Program (SCHIP) in 1997).

        The 1993 Republican alternative, introduced by Senator John Chafee (R-RI) as the Health Equity and Access Reform Today Act, contained a “Universal Coverage” requirement with a penalty for non-compliance.[161][162] Advocates for the 1993 bill which contained the individual mandate included prominent Republicans who today oppose the mandate, such as Orrin Hatch (R-UT), Charles Grassley (R-IA), Bob Bennett (R-UT), and Christopher Bond (R-MO).[163][164] Of the 43 Republicans Senators from 1993, almost half – 20 out of 43 – supported the HEART Act.[156][165] And in 1994 Senator Don Nickles (R-OK) introduced the Consumer Choice Health Security Act which also contained an individual mandate with a penalty provision[166] – however, subsequently, he did remove the mandate from the act after introduction stating that they had decided “that government should not compel people to buy health insurance.”[167]At the time of these proposals, Republicans did not raise constitutional issues with the mandate; Mark Pauly, who helped develop a proposal that included an individual mandate for George H.W. Bush, remarked, “I don’t remember that being raised at all. The way it was viewed by the Congressional Budget Office in 1994 was, effectively, as a tax… So I’ve been surprised by that argument.”[156]

        Governor Romney signing the Massachusetts health care insurance reform law with Ted Kennedy and a bipartisan group of state legislators, April 12, 2006.

        An individual health-insurance mandate was also enacted at the state-level in Massachusetts: In 2006, Republican Mitt Romney, then governor of Massachusetts, signedan insurance expansion bill with an individual mandate into law with strong bipartisan support (including that of Ted Kennedy (D-MA)). Romney’s success in installing an individual mandate in Massachusetts was at first lauded by Republicans. During Romney’s 2008 Presidential campaign, Senator Jim DeMint (R-SC) praised Romney’s ability to “take some good conservative ideas, like private health insurance, and apply them to the need to have everyone insured.” Romney himself said of the individual mandate: “I’m proud of what we’ve done. If Massachusetts succeeds in implementing it, then that will be the model for the nation.”[168]

        The following year (2007), Senators Bob Bennett (R-UT) and Ron Wyden (D-OR)introduced the Healthy Americans Act, a bill that also featured an individual mandate, and which attracted bipartisan support.[159][168] Among the Republican co-sponsors still in Congress during the health care debate: Senators Chuck Grassley (R-IA),Lindsey Graham (R-SC), Bob Bennett (R-UT), Mike Crapo (R-ID), Bob Corker (R-TN), Lamar Alexander (R-TN), and Arlen Specter (R-PA).[169][170]

        Given the history of bipartisan support for the idea, and its track record in Massachusetts; by 2008 Democrats were considering it as a basis for comprehensive, national health care reform: Experts have pointed out that the legislation that eventually emerged from Congress in 2009 and 2010 bears many similarities to the 2007 bill;[162] and that it was deliberately patterned after former Republican Governor of Massachusetts Mitt Romney’s state healthcare plan(which contains an individual mandate).[171] Jonathan Gruber, a key architect of the Massachusetts reform, advised the Clinton and Obama Presidential campaigns on their health care proposals, served as a technical consultant to the Obama Administration, and helped Congress draft the ACA.

        • TheOriginalDaveH

          Calling it ObamaCare is bad, but it’s okay to euphemistically and erroneously call it the “Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act”? When it’s anything but?
          People don’t have to be Forced to buy things that are good for them.
          Protection? Now where have I heard that term before?
          You can keep the Protection, SciDave, and the Change too.

          • smilee

            No but if they do not have the money due to being overcharged and underpaid they cannot afford to buy it on their own. I guess regulations that require covering existing conditions is protection to a large number of persons and subsidies will allow them and others to buy it if they are poor as well. It s cheaper to give them insurance and not treat in the ER. Single payer systems have been proven to cut the costs in half in many countries and also show better outcomes in over 30 countries as well but we choose to pay almost double as our priority is profits for providers and insurance companies and not health care as the priority and that is why most countries no longer use our system and discovered great results. The MA documentary had many whom had existing conditions and no money now are treated and many were able to get better and get jobs again and are now are taxpayers too. Yes these protections work and I understand from your many post you care nothing about anybody but your self. Costs are still high but there has been reductions in some medical costs also.That is the law now get used to it and save your breath for something you may be able to influence but this issue is a dead horse.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Sleepee says — “No but if they do not have the money due to being overcharged and underpaid they cannot afford to buy it on their own”.
            That’s the Government’s fault, Sleepee. Did you read the articles I linked to? But regardless of that, you do not have a right to enslave other people even if it did happen to your ancestors. Two wrongs still don’t make a right, Sleepee.
            If you think companies are overcharging, don’t patronize them. Or start your own, and show us how it’s done. And your conjecture about what other countries achieve with their single-payer systems is meaningless, Sleepee, without some strong references. Remember, you have no credibility on this board. But even if it was true, Sleepee, it still doesn’t give you the right to enslave other people and Force your way on them. You’re no better than the crooked Capitalists that you rail against.

          • smilee

            What you call enslaved is just your opinion Obamacare was written, passed, challenged and found to be constitutional under parts of the Constitution before any amendments were added to it (written 1787). The Part of the constitution that supports the taxing (called fines by some but not the court) called enslavement by your spin.

            Article I, Section 8, Clause 1, – Powers of Congress

            The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

            To lay and collect taxes for the common defense and general welfare of the US. This equates common defense and general welfare and gives equal powers to congress to tax for. The court said this gives Congress the Power to tax to pay for Obamacare as it is for the general welfare of the US. I know you claim it means something else but the words and the court have now said it is as I described here. Weather you like it or not is irrelevant as in fact what I said is true and you can read the opinion itself to prove it to yourself. Your problem davie is you spin, spin, spin and in doing so you get dizzy and they write these dizzy post that enlightens no one. You say I got no credibility but coming from you that is a compliment as to you credibility is based on false statements and mine are true and that gives me real and genuine credibility.

        • Frank Kahn

          Your long winded quote, from wikipedia, does not support your contention of the phrase being used in 2007. It does not even mention Obama in the course of discussion of the unconstitutional bill.

          • smilee

            There you go again, calling it unconstitutional when the court has said it is. Republicans always said it was until Obama put his stamp of approval on it and then they made a 180 degree turn on it,

          • Average_Joe56

            Actually, the court said…it was a tax and not a fine and said that it was up to congress to sort out. All bills of Taxation need to originate where? This bill originated where? WOOPSIE…..

            BTW, that is being challenged as we speak…because it didn’t originate in the House as a tax…it originated in the Senate…as a fine.

            http://www.aapsonline.org/inde

          • smilee

            Never the less the court made it constitutional and it did originate in the house. I know the propaganda mills have worked their butts off to convince the non believers that they can bring a dead horse back to life but they cannot. Don’t be such a sucker!

          • Average_Joe56

            The court did no such thing…. You obviously did not READ the courts decision.

          • Average_Joe56

            I have talked to stupid people before.. but you “smarmee”… are stupid on steroids….

            Anyone who only uses more of their own opinion to back up their opinion….isn’t the sharpest tack in the box.

            Sources? Links? Anything…other than your opinion?
            Put up…or shut up!

            Your opinion and $5 will get you a cup of coffee in some places…this isn’t one of those places.

          • Frank Kahn

            The supreme court ruled that the fine was constitutional because it was a tax. This is a stupid interpretation of the facts. It is a fine, the fact that it is administered by the IRS does not make it a tax. And, besides, if it is a tax then the bill was not written properly, it did not originate in the house. Besides, even if you pretend it really is constitutional, it is a sorry piece of legislation that needs to be destroyed for the health of the nation.

  • Chieftainownerdriver

    Latest figure on approval of congress I read was 14% and falling. They wonder why. I have asked my congressman (Republican) a number of times to defund. He keeps saying we cannot do that because it would shut down the government. My senators are two good communists, so writing mark w and tim k is useless. They toe the damocrat party line, catering to the whims of the useless, voting lock step as all good party members do. The 17th amendment leads the charge in destroying States rights and the nations freedoms. Between fraudulent elections, sanctuary cities, welfare brood mares promises to provide all to illegal immigrants and political party cronyism our nation is being destroyed from within, I ask Chip to keep us informed about the corrupted politicians efforts to get themselves exempted from ovomitcare, as this one thing might bring about massive actions by the people against their pretenders in congress. The idea that the sleaze administration are indoctrinating young skulls full of mush that ovomitcare is good for all the people reinforces my belief that the takers have won, the freedoms our founding fathers designed in the Constitution are done. The young are mad as hell and buying 2nd amendment rights stuff faster than ever, with good reason.

    • http://batman-news.com samurai

      Here is an article showing what it will cost the average American with the latest Obama bin Laden Care waiver.
      http://www.blog.heritage.org/2013/07/03/the-massive-costs-of-the-latest-obamacare-waiver/
      FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!
      You need both love of country and faith in GOD to be a patriot.
      “A thourough knowledge of the Bible is worth more than a college education.”
      Theodore Roosevelt
      26th President of the U.S.

      • smilee

        This wavier only effects 6% of businesses as the other 94% with over 50 employees all ready furnish their employees health insurance and would not pay the tax for not having insurance anyway and this is no where near 10 billion dollars. The article is based mostly on projection on theories not the bill that they have been asked to calculate and this article also totally ignores all the savings in this bill and I will list one. Insurance companies already in effect under this law must pay out 85% for medical services for group plans and 80% for individual plans and before the law records show that they paid out 60 to 75% for medical services. They will now have 30 million new customers and this greatly increases the size of the pools being created and the bigger the pool the lower the premiums that has been its history and this article ignores all these facts. CBO findings on the bill say there will be savings, those whom have presented theories for them to calculate is based on pure speculation and best ignored as they have little chance to actually happen. They do work to fool suckers like you though. I see lying still comes easy to you.

        • TheOriginalDaveH

          Smilee, you have no credibility on this board. Try posting some evidence for your conjecture.
          It flies in the face of reason, that adding thousands of new bureaucrats on the taxpayers’ payroll would somehow save money. And we can add to that the moral hazard that will be created by the Healthcare Law, which will result in more wasteful usage by people who aren’t directly financially affected by that wasteful usage.
          You can post all the figures you want, Smilee, but in the end, after yet more Government failure, the people will find out the truth.
          Here’s just one example of Liberal Progressive dishonesty:
          http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/05/30/rate-shock-in-california-obamacare-to-increase-individual-insurance-premiums-by-64-146/

          • smilee

            Credibility, your statement are based on speculation not fact and that is not creditable. You always accuse someone of not having credibility when they have proved you wrong and without supporting evidence. My evidence is the bill itself and only congress can change it, Try reading it, and not just cherry pick it either. Forbes and you can say anything you like, credible or not and you do not come across as very credible.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Sure Smilee. We believe that you’ve read the bill. And we believe you’re a Freedom-loving patriot also.
            You’ve proved me wrong “and without supporting evidence”?
            I think it’s time for your nap, Sleepee.

          • WTS/JAY

            Possible brain-damage?

          • smilee

            i know you do not believe it but the fact is I did and what you say cannot change that. Why not read it yourself and then maybe we could have a debate on the real facts.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Did you read any of the articles I linked to?
            Or were you taking my advice and taking your nap?

    • rhondareichel

      I’d see no downside if the govt. did shutdown for awhile. We sure would save money and they would do less harm

  • WTS/JAY

    SEVENTY-TWO KILLED RESISTING GUN CONFISCATION IN BOSTON!

    Boston – National Guard units seeking to confiscate a cache of recently banned assault weapons were ambushed by elements of a Para-military extremist faction. Military and law enforcement sources estimate that 72 were killed and more than 200 injured before government forces were compelled to withdraw.

    Speaking after the clash, Massachusetts Governor Thomas Gage declared that the extremist faction, which was made up of local citizens, has links to the radical right-wing tax protest movement.

    Gage blamed the extremists for recent incidents of vandalism directed against internal revenue offices. The governor, who described the group’s organizers as “criminals,” issued an executive order authorizing the summary arrest of any individual who has interfered with the government’s efforts to secure law and order.

    The military raid on the extremist arsenal followed wide-spread refusal by the local citizenry to turn over recently outlawed assault weapons…

    http://fauquierfreecitizen.com/seventy-two-killed-resisting-gun-confiscation-in-boston/

    • TheOriginalDaveH

      Eight innocent bystanders were killed as a result of action by the same Government that claimed to want to ban guns for their “protection”.
      Anybody who believes Government is concerned with our safety is severely deluded.
      From the article:
      “Ironically, the local citizenry blamed government forces rather than the extremists for the civilian deaths”.
      Interesting technique to get people to read some history by masking it as a current event.

  • rhondareichel

    Ron Paul would have cut the agencies….that’s what we needed a drastic reduction….but sadly people bought into Romney instead…..Obamacare was based on Romneycare. How could they be so blind?

  • nobaloneyhere

    Defunding Obamacare is the only route left to ridding the country of this monster. Will the Republicants have the guts to do it? I doubt it. And for those of you who are ripping on Obamacare but stayed home last year and didn’t vote for Romney and all other Republicans in Congress, go pound sand. You had the chance to vote out the President but you stayed on the sidelines. I voted for Romney and other Republicans, hoping they would win and we’d get rid of Obamacare and all his other fantasies that are taking us for broke.

    • Average_Joe56

      Sounds like someone is still stuck in the Left/Right Paradigm…sorry for your luck….

      ” And for those of you who are ripping on Obamacare but stayed home last year and didn’t vote for Romney and all other Republicans in Congress, go pound sand.”

      Well, I didn’t stay home…but I didn’t vote for Romney or Obama. Obamacare was based on what?…Oh yeah…Romneycare. If you believe for even a moment that Romney is any different than Obama, or that electing Romney would have gotten rid of this…you are either very gullible or very delusional.. take your pick.

      “You had the chance to vote out the President but you stayed on the sidelines. I voted for Romney and other Republicans”

      See, you threw away your vote…to keep business as usual candidates in office…thanks for nothing…You could have voted third party and elected someone who wasn’t part of “the club”.

      I voted for Ron Paul in the primaries and once the Rethuglians pushed him and his supporters out of their party….I voted Libertarian…and will continue to do so. You keep voting the way you do…and you’ll continue to get the government…you deserve…. Before blaming others, you may want to consider that you are part of the problem….

      • nobaloneyhere

        Nope. I don’t think I’m part of the problem. Instead, the ones who stayed home are the ones to blame. Four million more votes and the Republicans are in power and ready to overthrow Obamacare. Instead, we’re stuck with it. You won’t convince me otherwise. You stayed home and got the government no one deserves.

        • TheOriginalDaveH

          We wouldn’t expect to. You can only convince yourself by doing the necessary studying to learn that the Republican party isn’t what you think they are.

          You can start here:
          http://mises.org/Books/historyofmoney.pdf

          https://mises.org/store/Real-Lincoln-The-P172.aspx

          https://mises.org/store/Hamiltons-Curse-P534.aspx

        • Average_Joe56

          “Nope. I don’t think I’m part of the problem.”

          Well at least you admit…you don’t think.

          “You won’t convince me otherwise. ”
          First and foremost, you must convince yourself…..

          “The third-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the majority.
          The second-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the minority.
          The first-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking.”
          – A. A. Milne

      • TheOriginalDaveH

        Yay!

    • Betta

      Our votes don’t mean diddly squat. Never did and never will. Presidents are not elected – they’re selected. We go out ad nauseum and vote only to have the electoral college and other dubious factions out vote the people. I know, I don’t want to believe it either. But apparently it’s true.
      Look at all the reports of voter fraud that began coming out on election day. Still the fraud continued when all voting should have been stopped immediately. People were even convicted for voting more than once and no recall. Can we recall an illegal president?

      • Protonius

        A related question is: Can we recall an illegal “pretender” to the Presidency who is NOT technically President, who was NOT Constitutionally eligible to serve in the Presidency and who was ILLEGALLY authorized by Congress to run for and be voted to the Presidency and who, also, was (possibly?) NOT actually “elected” to the Presidency but was illegally CHANNELED into the Presidency by intentionally systemic and systematic electoral-system fraud?

        • TheOriginalDaveH

          The string-pullers will throw him under the bus as soon as the mass of people start becoming aware of his failed policies.

          • smilee

            Did not happen in 2012 despite Rove’s and Romney’s beliefs that they would. The people were not buying your assertions and still do not.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Still passing off Hopes and Dreams as reality and logic, eh Sleepee?

          • smilee

            No I was referencing what both said after the election as they both admitted it. The outcome of the election
            verify’s my last sentence. You really to have a problem with comprehension don;t you!

      • Average_Joe56

        As long as votes are counted in secret there will never be a legitimate election (computerized voting is “secret” ,hidden voting).

        Those who count the votes…determine the outcome.

        • TheOriginalDaveH

          Actually, computerized voting could save us. Here’s how:
          We could have two databases for each election. One
          database would store the ‘voter information’ (Identification, address, polling place, etc.). And the other database would store the ‘votes cast’ with a unique alphanumeric ID which would be given to each voter at the polling place. The polling place would also be stored on this database to identify problem polling places. Only the voter would know his alphanumeric ID so secrecy would be preserved. And the voter would be given a printout to verify how he/she voted.
          The database would be accessible by the public. Anyone or any organization could check the ‘voter information’ database to see if any illegal voters cast votes. The votes in the ‘votes cast’ database could be easily tallied by anyone to see if votes were counted correctly and that the number of votes matched the number of voters in the ‘voter information’ database. Also, an individual voter would be able to check his alphanumeric ID to see that his votes are in the database correctly, and if not, he/she could notify the proper authorities or the proper news media. The ‘votes’ database could be corrected periodically to account for any corrections that were made by citizens claiming their votes were not entered correctly, or votes discovered to be made by dead people, convicts, etc.
          This kind of system would be much cheaper and more
          accountable than anything I’ve seen.

          • Average_Joe56

            As much as I love computers, sadly, I still don’t trust the programmers….
            I still prefer good old fashioned place your ballot in a box in the center of the room….in full public view at all times. At the end of voting, the box is counted by three different people ( a Democrat, a Republican and an Independent) for accuracy and honesty…in full public view at all times….. and then posted at the precinct level, the county level, the state level and finally the federal level… so there is no possibility of fraud at any level.
            I don’t care if we have to wait a month or even three months for the final tally…at least we will know that our vote counted. After all, it’s roughly 4 months before they take office…plenty of time to make sure our voice is heard….and WE actually elect our representatives.
            And…. I still believe in voter ID! If you’re not a citizen entitled to vote….you are not going to vote. Photo ID is available to everyone….get it and use it…or…you don’t vote….period.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            it wouldn’t matter, Joe, because anybody could read the database to see how the votes were stored.
            If votes were altered, it would be quickly detected by the voters or voter advocates.

          • Average_Joe56

            While I agree with the logic…I still have distrust issues…..thanks to my overtly “Honest” government…they will find a way to “work around” ….Trust us, we’re from the government; we’re here to help…. ;)

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Maybe, but what do we have now, whether it be paper or electronic? I have no idea, for instance, how they counted my vote. I just have to take it on faith that they weren’t dishonest.

          • smilee

            Most now are counted by scanners and the paper copies kept for verification latter if needed and then they are counted by hand and if you cast a ballot that will be tossed out the scanner rejects it and you can get a new ballot and correct it.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Wasn’t it you that earlier shouted — “ELECTRONIC METHODS CAN NEVER GUARANTEE THAT SOMETHING THAT CANNOT BE CORRECTED WILL NOT GO WRONG”?
            Your argument changes like the wind, Sleepee. Now back to your nap.

          • smilee

            I have nothing against electronic methods provided there is a hard paper copy also and the scanner system has both so did not change my mind bu I guess your simple mind cannot comprehend that,

          • smilee

            YOUR METHOD IS THE ONLY SAFE METHOD IN CASE OF A ELECTRONIC GLITCH AND ALL COULD BE MANIPULATED OR LOST OR HACKED. ELECTRONIC METHODS CAN NEVER GUARANTEE THAT SOMETHING THAT CANNOT BE CORRECTED WILL NOT GO WRONG.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Sleepee,
            You have no idea what you’re shouting about.
            In the blink of an eye, several database copies can be made. Not so for paper votes which could be easily damaged or destroyed if unscrupulous workers so decided. And the databases could be read by anybody with the proper software. Computer Scientists could even write their own database-reading software if they knew the format of the database.

          • smilee

            BULL!

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Time for your nap, Sleepee.

          • http://batman-news.com samurai

            You mean that Obama bin Laden, the NSA, IRS, etc., could spy on them and get the information? Here is what our independence is about.
            http://www.politicaloutcast.com/2013/07/july-4th-what-is-independence-about/
            FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!
            You need both love of country and faith in GOD to be a patriot. This leaves you out.
            “There are no atheists in fox holes.”
            Samurai

          • smilee

            This coming from you only means you have been stumped and can not give any intelligent response.

    • TheOriginalDaveH

      Romney wouldn’t have changed anything.
      But Ron Paul would have, if the Republican followers hadn’t allowed the string-pullers to cast him aside.

  • TheOriginalDaveH

    Good job, Chip.

    But I do take exception to this remark:
    “This is a battle I’d love to see us wage. So how about it, Congressmen? Isn’t it high time to stop signing all of those checks? Especially when you have to borrow the money to pay for them?”.
    Chip is assuming that the Congressmen represent the people rather than themselves. I think that’s a mistaken assumption.

  • TheOriginalDaveH

    It looks like the PTBs have already successfully deleted the evidence from the originating website.

    • WTS/JAY

      Yes, unfortunately the PTBs have been busy scrubbing. There’s a good chance someone may have downloaded the video to their hard-drive and may make it available later when the smoke clears.

  • WTS/JAY

    CANADA IN LANDMARK MOVE TO KILL “HATE SPEECH” LAW

    Once again, Canada leads the way forward while Obama stumbles backwards.

    When the York police threatened a Rabbi at whose shul I was scheduled to speak was a defining moment. Cops in bed with Islamic supremacist groups enforcing sharia speech codes? Not. good.

    Canada in landmark move to strike out “hate speech” law WND, June 29, 2013

    Free speech advocates “ecstatic” as Canada abolishes legislation used against critics of Islamism and terrorism

    Free speech advocates are hailing a move by the Canadian Senate this week to abolish a highly controversial section of Canada’s Human Rights Act which, critics say, has been used to stifle the opinions of right-leaning journalists such as Mark Steyn and Ezra Levant.

    The Sun Media Corporation, Canada’s leading newspaper publisher, said:

    “Section 13 ostensibly banned hate speech on the Internet and left it up to the quasi-judicial human rights commission to determine what qualified as “hate speech.” But, unlike a court, there was no presumption of innocence of those accused of hate speech by the commission. Instead, those accused had to prove their innocence.”

    Commenting on the move, Steyn, who had been a victim of Section 13 due to his writings against Islamism and terrorism, said:

    “So victories against the state’s encroachments on free speech are protracted and difficult, but still just about possible. I am honored to have played a small role in a modest victory for liberty in Canada, and I hope my friends in London, ashamed by what their government has done, will take heart.”

    http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2013/07/canada-in-landmark-move-to-kill-hate-speech-law-.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=facebook

    • Frank Kahn

      I hope this blog site can handle massive posts because this is going to get extreme before I let your pathological ranting rest.

      “YOUR WORDS: Lots of liberal BS once again Smiley?

      MY CURRENT RESPONSE: LOTS OF PURE GARBAGE FROM YOU!!”

      SORRY SMIRKER, ALL THE GARBAGE IS FLOWING FROM YOUR PIE HOLE

      “MY ORIGINAL WORDS: ” What she actually said was “But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of
      controversy.””

      I USED COPY AND PASTE WHEN I RESPONDED TO YOU SO IT WAS YOUR ORIGINAL WORDS. THEY STILL HAVE THE SAME DELUDED CONTENT AS BEFORE

      “MY ORIGINAL WORDS: She was talking about those not in congress whom were being bombarded with all kinds of falsehoods causing major confusion for many and one has to wonder if this is just more of the same fog. Two very different statements so why should we believe anything else that is said in this article””

      WRONG BILGE BOY, THEY ARE EXACTLY THE SAME STATEMENTS, NOTHING IS CHANGED BY THE INCLUSION OF THE FOG PORTION.

      “YOUR WORDS:To whom was she referring? To whom are you referring?

      MY CURRENT RESPONSE By “you” she meant anyone not in congress as she has explained more than once after her words were spun and am saying the same and it should have been self explanatory from the start if she had been quoted as she stated and not a partial and spun manner.”

      NOTHING IN THE QUOTE YOU PROVIDED INDICATED TO WHOM SHE WAS SPEAKING. AND THE ONLY THING OBVIOUS IN THE QUOTE IS THAT SHE IS DELUDED AND UNABLE TO COGENTLY IDENTIFY THE MEANING SHE WAS WANTING. THERE IS NO FOG OF CONTROVERSY, THAT IS ACTUALLY MORONIC. THERE MIGHT BE CONFUSION CAUSED BY CONTROVERSY BUT NOT OF CONTROVERSY. SO NOTHING IN THE QUOTE IS CLEAR.

      “YOUR WORDS: The statement stands by itself, without the meaningless qualifier that you insisted on including.

      MY CURRENT RESPONSE What you call meaningless qualifier is my saying the same thing she said and in later interviews with her made my so called meaningless qualifiers actual fact. Is that so difficult for you to understand??”

      WHAT, APPARENTLY IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR YOU TO UNDERSTAND IS WHAT I AM TELLING YOU. THE INCLUSION OF “away from the fog of
      controversy.” DOES NOT ADD ANYTHING TO THE CONTENT OF THE QUOTE. IT IS JUST HER ATTEMPT TO IMPLY THAT NOBODY CAN KNOW THE TRUTH UNTIL IT IS ALREADY TOO LATE.

      “YOUR WORDS: She said “we (congress) have to pass the bill (AHCA) so that you (the people) can find out what is in it. The qualifier phrase that you included simply implied that everyone who was against it was lying. You, on the other hand, come right

      MY
      CURRENT RESPONSE: I never identified whom was lying for or against, Again you are putting words in my mouth. If you read the actual bill now law you would also know the lies they said so yes I called them out based on that reference but again never identified them.”

      NOT PUTTING ANYTHING ANYWHERE NEAR YOUR MOUTH. YOU ARE BLINDLY AND IGNORANTLY CHAMPIONING THE WORTHLESS BILL, SO BY DEDUCTIVE ANALYSIS IT IS OBVIOUS THAT YOU ARE CALLING THE OPPONENTS LIARS. THE SIMPLE FACT THAT MY STATEMENT WAS TRUE INDICATES THAT I DID NOT PUT ANYTHING IN YOUR MOUTH OR TWIST YOUR MEANINGS.

      “YOUR WORDS:The true FOG was created by the
      liberals refusal to show exactly what was in it before forcing it down our throats. Most of what you classified as “falsehoods” have been proven to be accurate.

      MY CURRENT RESPONSE THAT SENTENCE IS A BOLD FACED LIE, THE LAW HAS NOT BEEN CHANGED SINCE IT WAS PASSED AND THE LAW DOES NOT SUPPORT YOUR LIES, GO READ IT
      then you will know it is you who is the liar. ”

      FIRST OF ALL, YOU MORON, I DID NOT SAY ANYTHING WAS CHANGED SINCE IT WAS PASSED. I SAID THAT THE BAD CRAP WAS THERE FROM THE START. AND I HAVE NOT MADE ANY SPECIFIC CHARGES OF PROBLEMS WITH THE BILL SO I COULD NOT HAVE LIED ABOUT IT.

      “YOUR WORDS: There are, also, many new things that “we have learned are in it”, that are even worse than what we suspected.

      MY CURRENT RESPONSE: THE LAW HAS NOT BEEN CHANGED SINCE IT WAS PASSED so nothing new has been added since it was passed so there was nothing new to learn after it was passed. I guess you were not paying attention again.”

      OKAY, LITTLE ONE, LETS SEE IF YOU CAN COMPREHEND JUST HOW STUPID THIS ONE IS. WE (THE NORMAL CITIZENS OF THIS COUNTRY, WHO ARE NOT A MEMBER OF CONGRESS) HAD TO WAIT TILL THE BILL WAS PASSED TO LEARN WHAT IS IN IT. JUST TO CLARIFY THE MEANING OF THAT STATEMENT. WE DON’T YET KNOW ALL THE BAD THINGS IT CONTAINS BECAUSE WE HAVE NOT LEARNED WHAT IS IN IT YET. THIS STATEMENT WAS MADE BY HER, PERTAINING TO OBJECTIONS PRIOR TO PASSAGE OF THE BILL. NOW, MANY MONTHS LATER, WE HAVE HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO READ THE MASSIVE BILL (WHICH YOU LIE ABOUT NOT CHANGING SINCE IT HAS GROWN MORE THAN DOUBLE ITS ORIGINAL SIZE) AND HAVE DISCOVERED MANY THINGS THAT WE HAD NOT SUSPECTED PRIOR TO ITS PASSAGE. THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT WE ARE SAYING ALL THE NEW BAD THINGS WERE ADDED TO THE BILL, JUST WE DIDN’T YET KNOW ABOUT THEM.

      “YOUR WORDS: So,her assertion that the liberals had the right to pass the bill without full disclosure of its content is arrogant and
      underhanded.

      MY CURRENT RESPONSE: The bill was online before it was passed so this statement is absurd, I saw it before. The rest is just your bogus
      opinions.”

      REALLY, CONGRESS GAVE YOU A SECRET URL TO READ THE BILL BEFORE ANYONE ELSE GOT A CHANCE TO SEE IT? THE FACT THAT THE FINAL VERSION CAME OUT OF COMMITTEE LESS THAN 48 HOURS BEFORE THE VOTE WAS PLENTY OF TIME FOR YOU TO READ ALL 2000 PAGES? SURE WISH SOMEONE HAD TOLD ME IT WAS POSTED ON LINE WEEKS BEFORE PASSAGE SO I COULD HAVE READ IT TOO.

      “MY ORIGINAL WORDS:” Then all the liars about Obamacare should have told the truth instead of 101 falsehoods causing all that confusion. “”

      AND AT THE START OF THIS RANT I COULD HAVE SWORN YOU SAID YOU DID NOT IDENTIFY WHO WAS LYING. OR ARE YOU NOW BEING HONEST AND TALKING ABOUT THE LIBERALS LYING?

      “YOUR WORDS: Confusion is imparted by contradictory information, the statement of facts by the opposition is only confusing if you try to
      accept that the liberals are not liars. We are not confused, the
      liberals are lying thieving worthless parasites. The ACHA is neither affordable or beneficial to the majority of citizens.

      MY CURRENT RESPONSE: Just your bogus and stupid opinions with absolutely no basis in fact. You really should read the bill first so you know what you are talking about.”

      OKAY YOU PATHETIC MORON PARASITE, LETS CALL YOU WHAT YOU ARE SINCE YOU WANT TO LOWER YOURSELF TO CHILDISH WHINING. STUPID IS A WORD THAT IS SYNONYMOUS WITH LIBERAL. BOGUS IS ANY AND EVERYTHING THEY FORCE US TO ACCEPT. IT IS NOT AN OPINION TO STATE FACTS. AFFORDABLE IS RELATIVE, WHAT IS AFFORDABLE FOR RICH ENTITLEMENT LEACHES IS DIFFERENT THAN WHAT IS AFFORDABLE FOR THE REST OF US NORMAL HARD WORKING PEOPLE. RAISING THE AMOUNT OF MONEY I HAVE TO PAY FOR HEALTH INSURANCE BY THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS A YEAR IS NOT AFFORDABLE. NOT BENEFICIAL TO THE MAJORITY OF CITIZENS IS A QUANTIFIABLE STATEMENT. THE EFFECT OF THE LAW HAS BEEN TO RAISE THE COST OF HEALTH CARE INSURANCE FOR THE MAJORITY OF POLICY HOLDERS. IT BENEFITS THOSE FEW PEOPLE WITH MAJOR HEALTH CONCERNS THAT CAUSED THEM TO PAY EXTREME POLICY PREMIUMS, BUT THAT IS A MINORITY OF CITIZENS.

      “MY ORIGINAL WORDS: “People will find out when they start using it and a recent documentary (2013) on Massachusetts Health Care (very similar to Obamacare and initially drafted by the heritage foundation) now in its fifth year has gained in popularity with
      support of over 60%. ”

      YOUR
      WORDS: Don’t give a rats ass what happened in Mass. I have guaranteed VA medical benefits and the ACHA requires me to spend thousands of dollars for Insurance I don’t need or want.

      MY CURRENT RESPONSE: Send me your address and I will send you a free crying towel!!”

      SEND ME YOUR ADDRESS AND I WILL HAVE A TRACTOR DELIVERED TO PULL YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS.

      “MY ORIGINAL WORDS: “This is what conservative fear as if Obamacare becomes popular it will be as hard to change as Medicare is so lies was their only defense ”

      YOUR WORDS: The only lies are coming out of the
      mouths of liberals, nothing that has been said about the bill, by those who oppose it, has been less than truthful.”

      YOU SCREWED SOMETHING UP, THAT WAS NOT MY RESPONSE TO YOUR STATEMENT.

      “MY CURRENT RESPONSE: WOW!! The web is full of blogs and propaganda sites and all of it is not true. You must be one of those suckers who cannot figure that out!!”

      WOW, THE WEB IS FULL OF BULLCRAP LIBERAL SITES THAT LIE EVERY DAY ABOUT EVERYTHING AND YOU ACTUALLY BELIEVE THEM. IT IS ALL LIBERAL PROPAGANDA AND YOU CANT FIGURE IT OUT.

      “MY ORIGINAL WORDS: “but the 2012 elections threw big monkey wrench into their gears and the lies continue”

      YOUR WORDS:Yes, the re-election of the psychopathic illegal usurper has caused a delay in justice for the nation, but bloody revenge will solve that problem.

      MY CURRENT RESPONSE: You really have no
      shortage of stupid comments do you!!”

      I GUESS WHEN YOU ARE A STUPID LIBERAL MORON, EVERYTHING REASONABLE SOUNDS STUPID TO YOU.

      “YOUR WORDS: I only hope I am present to witness your personal payment for your crimes against humanity.·

      AND NOW WE VENTURE INTO THE MAGICAL REPEATING CONFUSION LAND

      She said “we (congress) have to pass the bill (AHCA) so that you (the people) can find out
      what is in it. The qualifier phrase that you included simply implied that everyone who was against it was lying. You, on the other hand, come right out and say they are lying.

      MY CURRENT RESPONSE: More inaccurate statement putting words in my mouth that I did not say, the bill now law and confirmed by the SC as constitutional is what it is and when others misrepresent what the law says they are liars and I will so identify.

      YOUR WORDS: The true FOG was created by the liberals refusal to show exactly what was in it before forcing it down our throats. Most of what you classified as “falsehoods” have been proven to be accurate. There are, also, many new things that “we have learned are in it”, that are even worse than what we suspected.

      MY
      CURRENT RESPONSE: The law is what it is and since it was passed in 2010 nothing in it has been changed so there is absolutely nothing new as you so inaccurately claim.

      MY
      ORIGINAL WORDS: “Then all the liars about Obamacare should have told the truth instead of 101 falsehoods causing all that confusion. ”

      YOUR
      WORDS: Confusion is imparted by contradictory information, the
      statement of facts by the opposition is only confusing if you try to
      accept that the liberals are not liars. We are not confused, the
      liberals are lying thieving worthless parasites. The ACHA is neither affordable or beneficial to the majority of citizens.

      MY CURRENT RESPONSE: Read the law then you will know the truth and stop spreading these lies when
      you have not even read the law and then you too will know you are lying.

      MY
      ORIGINAL WORDS:”This is what conservative fear as if Obamacare becomes
      popular it will be as hard to change as Medicare is so lies was their
      only defense ”

      YOUR WORDS: The only lies are coming out of the
      mouths of liberals, nothing that has been said about the bill, by those who oppose it, has been less than truthful.

      MY CURRENT RESPONSE: 90% of what comes out of your mouth is pure BS”

      WELL SMIRKY SMIRCHER I AM DOING BETTER THAN YOU BECAUSE 100% OF WHAT YOU POSTED IS PURE HORSE PUCKEY. YOU WANT TO KISS OBAMAS BUTT, BE MY GUEST, BUT DON’T TRY TO CONVINCE ME THAT IT SMELLS AND TASTES GOOD.

      • smilee

        Your so full of crap I’m not going to touch she said what she said and it is documented so spin away with your silly worthless crap

        • Frank Kahn

          Of course she said what she said, and you said what you said and Obama said what he said. Common thread there is, all liberals, and deluded.

          • smilee

            And all true what we said ! Doubt that interests you.

          • Frank Kahn

            Yes, Obamacare will be truly beneficial and affordable for everyone when pigs sprout wings and fly.

          • smilee

            Just your opinion and totally without merit, Obamacare is better than what we have had but leaves a lot to be desired and once sccepted and liked by people it will be improved upon. Mayo Clinic thinks it is a very good start and it is

  • smilee

    Chip quoted Pelosi as saying “Nancy Pelosi said we had to pass Obamacare to find out what’s in it?

    What she actually said was

    “But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of controversy.”

    She was talking about those not in congress whom were being bombarded with all kinds of falsehoods causing major confusion for many and one has to wonder if this is just more of the same fog. Two very different statements so why should we believe anything else that is said in this article????

    • TheOriginalDaveH

      Equivocation.
      It is those “not in Congress” who should be most aware of what it is they’re trying to saddle us with.

      • smilee

        Then all the liars about Obamacare should have told the truth instead of 101 falsehoods causing all that confusion. People will find out when they start using it and a recent documentary (2013) on Massachusetts Health Care (very similar tto Obamacare and initially drafted by the heritage foundation) now in its fifth year has gained in popularity with support of over 60%. This is what conservative fear as if Obamacare becomes popular it will be as hard to change as Medicare is so lies was their only defense but the 2012 elections threw big monkey wrench into their gears and the lies continue.

        • Frank Kahn

          Lots of liberal BS once again Smiley?

          ” What she actually said was “But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of controversy.”

          She was talking about those not in congress whom were being bombarded with all kinds of falsehoods causing major confusion for many and one has to wonder if this is just more of the same fog. Two very different statements so why should we believe anything else that is said in this article”

          To whom was she referring? To whom are you referring?

          The statement stands by itself, without the meaningless qualifier that you insisted on including.

          She said “we (congress) have to pass the bill (AHCA) so that you (the people) can find out what is in it. The qualifier phrase that you included simply implied that everyone who was against it was lying. You, on the other hand, come right out and say they are lying.

          The true FOG was created by the liberals refusal to show exactly what was in it before forcing it down our throats. Most of what you classified as “falsehoods” have been proven to be accurate. There are, also, many new things that “we have learned are in it”, that are even worse than what we suspected.

          So, her assertion that the liberals had the right to pass the bill without full disclosure of its content is arrogant and underhanded.

          “Then all the liars about Obamacare should have told the truth instead of 101 falsehoods causing all that confusion. ”

          Confusion is imparted by contradictory information, the statement of facts by the opposition is only confusing if you try to accept that the liberals are not liars. We are not confused, the liberals are lying thieving worthless parasites. The ACHA is neither affordable or beneficial to the majority of citizens.

          “People will find out when they start using it and a recent documentary (2013) on Massachusetts Health Care (very similar tto Obamacare and initially drafted by the heritage foundation) now in its fifth year has gained in popularity with support of over 60%. ”

          Don’t give a rats ass what happened in Mass. I have guaranteed VA medical benefits and the ACHA requires me to spend thousands of dollars for Insurance I don’t need or want.

          “This is what conservative fear as if Obamacare becomes popular it will be as hard to change as Medicare is so lies was their only defense ”

          The only lies are coming out of the mouths of liberals, nothing that has been said about the bill, by those who oppose it, has been less than truthful.

          “but the 2012 elections threw big monkey wrench into their gears and the lies continue”

          Yes, the re-election of the psychopathic illegal usurper has caused a delay in justice for the nation, but bloody revenge will solve that problem.

          I only hope I am present to witness your personal payment for your crimes against humanity.

          • smilee

            YOUR WORDS: Lots of liberal BS once again Smiley?

            MY CURRENT RESPONSE: LOTS OF PURE GARBAGE FROM YOU!!

            MY ORIGINAL WORDS: ” What she actually said was “But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of controversy.”

            MY ORIGINAL WORDS: She was talking about those not in congress whom were being bombarded with all kinds of falsehoods causing major confusion for many and one has to wonder if this is just more of the same fog. Two very different statements so why should we believe anything else that is said in this article”

            YOUR WORDS:To whom was she referring? To whom are you referring?

            MY CURRENT RESPONSE By “you” she meant anyone not in congress as she has explained more than once after her words were spun and am saying the same and it should have been self explanatory from the start if she had been quoted as she stated and not a partial and spun manner.

            YOUR WORDS: The statement stands by itself, without the meaningless qualifier that you insisted on
            including.

            MY CURRENT RESPONSE What you call meaningless qualifier is my saying the same thing she said and in later interviews with her made my so called meaningless qualifiers actual fact. Is that so difficult for you to understand??

            YOUR WORDS: She said “we (congress) have to pass the bill (AHCA) so that you (the people) can find out what is in it. The qualifier phrase that you included simply implied that everyone who was against it was lying. You, on the other hand, come right

            MY CURRENT RESPONSE: I never identified whom was lying for or against, Again you are putting words in my mouth. If you read the actual bill now law you would also know the lies they said so yes I called them out based on that reference but again never identified them.

            YOUR WORDS:The true FOG was created by the
            liberals refusal to show exactly what was in it before forcing it down our throats. Most of what you classified as “falsehoods” have been proven to be accurate.

            MY CURRENT RESPONSE THAT SENTENCE IS A BOLD FACED LIE, THE LAW HAS NOT BEEN
            CHANGED SINCE IT WAS PASSED AND THE LAW DOES NOT SUPPORT YOUR LIES, GO READ IT
            then you will know it is you who is the liar.

            YOUR WORDS: There are, also, many new things that “we have learned are in it”, that are even worse than what we suspected.

            MY CURRENT RESPONSE: THE LAW HAS NOT BEEN CHANGED SINCE IT WAS PASSED so nothing new has been added since it was passed
            so there was nothing new to learn after it was passed. I guess you were not paying attention again.

            YOUR WORDS: So,her assertion that the liberals had the right to pass the bill without full disclosure of its content is arrogant and underhanded.

            MY CURRENT RESPONSE: The bill was online before it was passed so this statement is absurd, I saw it before. The rest is just your bogus
            opinions.

            MY ORIGINAL WORDS:” Then all the
            liars about Obamacare should have told the truth instead of 101 falsehoods causing all that confusion. ”

            YOUR WORDS: Confusion is imparted by contradictory information, the statement of facts by the opposition is only confusing if you try to accept that the liberals are not liars. We are not confused, the
            liberals are lying thieving worthless parasites. The ACHA is neither affordable or beneficial to the majority of citizens.

            MY CURRENT RESPONSE: Just your bogus and stupid opinions with absolutely no basis in fact. You really should read the bill first so you know
            what you are talking about.

            MY ORIGINAL WORDS: “People will find out when they start using it and a recent documentary (2013) on
            Massachusetts Health Care (very similar to Obamacare and initially drafted by the heritage foundation) now in its fifth year has gained in popularity with support of over 60%. ”

            YOUR WORDS: Don’t give a rats ass what happened in Mass. I have guaranteed VA medical benefits and the ACHA requires me to spend thousands of dollars for Insurance I don’t need or want.

            MY CURRENT RESPONSE: Send me your address and I will send you a free crying towel!!

            MY ORIGINAL WORDS: “This is what conservative fear as if Obamacare becomes popular it will be as hard to change as Medicare is so lies was their only defense ”

            YOUR WORDS: The only lies are coming out of the
            mouths of liberals, nothing that has been said about the bill, by those who oppose it, has been less than truthful.

            MY CURRENT RESPONSE: WOW!! The web is full of blogs and propaganda sites and all of it is not true. You must be one of those suckers who cannot figure that out!!

            MY ORIGINAL WORDS: “but the 2012 elections threw big monkey wrench into their gears and the lies continue”

            YOUR WORDS:Yes, the re-election of the
            psychopathic illegal usurper has caused a delay in justice for the nation, but bloody revenge will solve that problem.

            MY CURRENT RESPONSE: You really have no
            shortage of stupid comments do you!!

            YOUR WORDS: I only hope I am present to witness
            your personal payment for your crimes against humanity.· She said “we (congress) have to pass the bill (AHCA) so that you (the people) can find out
            what is in it. The qualifier phrase that you included simply implied that everyone who was against it was lying. You, on the other hand, come right out
            and say they are lying.

            MY CURRENT RESPONSE: More inaccurate statement putting words in my mouth that I did not
            say, the bill now law and confirmed by the SC as constitutional is what it is and when others misrepresent what the law says they are liars and I will so identify.

            YOUR WORDS: The true FOG was created by the
            liberals refusal to show exactly what was in it before forcing it down our throats. Most of what you classified as “falsehoods” have been proven to be accurate. There are, also, many new things that “we have learned are in it”, that are even worse than what we suspected.

            MY CURRENT RESPONSE: The law is what it is and since it was passed in 2010 nothing in it has been changed so there is absolutely nothing new as you so inaccurately claim.

            MY ORIGINAL WORDS: “Then all the liars about Obamacare should have told the truth instead of 101 falsehoods causing all that confusion. ”

            YOUR WORDS: Confusion is imparted by contradictory information, the statement of facts by the opposition is only confusing if you try to accept that the liberals are not liars. We are not confused, the
            liberals are lying thieving worthless parasites. The ACHA is neither affordable or beneficial to the majority of citizens.

            MY CURRENT RESPONSE: Read the law then you will know the truth and stop spreading these lies when
            you have not even read the law and then you too will know you are lying.

            MY ORIGINAL WORDS:”This is what conservative fear as if Obamacare becomes popular it will be as hard to change as Medicare is so lies was their only defense ”

            YOUR WORDS: The only lies are coming out of the
            mouths of liberals, nothing that has been said about the bill, by those who oppose it, has been less than truthful.

            MY CURRENT RESPONSE: 90% of what comes out of your mouth is pure BS

          • http://batman-news.com samurai

            No response due to lack of intellectual content. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!
            You need both love of country and faith in GOD to be a patriot. This leaves you out.

          • smilee

            This coming from you only means you have been stumped and can not give any intelligent response.

        • TheOriginalDaveH

          About the Massachusetts’ “Miracle”:
          http://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/bp112.pdf

    • Dr Moon

      Ignorance reins supreme in your mind. How can you completely discount all of the warnings out of hand without any proof. Massachusetts has only 6 million residents and an above average wealth per household, so insuring the few uninsured is easy. But America has 300 million people plus. Only half pay taxes thus the same half will pick up ObamaCare. This alone makes it unsustainable. Now here are some “falsehoods” that are proven facts. 50% of Doctors have said they will retire or go into a different field like research. You will not be allowed to keep your same insurer and Doctor. United Health Care packed up and left California because of the outrages costs, they are the largest Insurance co. in the US. Thus millions of Californians are having to buy ObamaCare Insurance and most have lost their Doctors. This will be duplicated in every state until all independent Companies are gone. Because of the employee mandates, Companies have cut full time positions and made many part-time so they no longer are forced to pay employees rising insurance cost. Insurance rates for individuals have tripled under OC. and reduced coverage. Death Panels and rationing of care has already started. Obama stole $750 Billion dollars from Medicare and gave it to Medicaid. These predictions have already come true and are happening all over America, and it hasn’t even been completely implemented. Smilee these are the facts, no lies, no BS.

      • smilee

        No facts, all you rant about is the far right propaganda which you set forth as fact and it is not. Nothing you have said is true but will only address the worst. THERE ARE NO DEATH PANELS!!!!!!!! THERE IS NO OBAMACARE INSURANCE, THE PUBLIC INSURANCE WAS NOT IN THE FINAL BILL!!!!! THAT 750 BILLION WAS NOT STOLE IT WAS IN FACT A COST SAVINGS!! MEDICARE “C” (private insurance plans of the 2004 Bush medicare reform bill which also included Medicare “D”) WAS COSTING TAXPAYERS 14% MORE THAN MEDICARE “B” (ORIGINAL MEDICARE) AND THIS BILL SAYS BOTH C AND B WILL BE PAID THE SAME AMOUNT GOING FORWARD THUS SAVING THE TAXPAYERS 750 BILLION THIS TOOK EFFECT RIGHT AWAY AND GUESS WHAT PREMIUMS FOR C PLANS DID NOT GO UP AND NO Medicare MEMBERS LOST ANY COVERAGE BUT ACTUALLY GAINED IN B AND D WITH NO LOSS FOR C. BUT THE FAR RIGHT PROPAGANDA MILL SAYS IT WAS STOLEN FROM SENIORS WHEN IN FACT IT ACTUALLY SAVED 750 BILLION WITHOUT ANY LOSS TO SENIORS/ NOTHING NEGATIVE HAS COME TRUE YET THE LIONS SHARE OF THE BILL WILL NOT TAKE EFFECT UNTIL NEXT YEAR. NO MORE COMMENTS ON THE REST OF YOUR LIES. Be honest and can all this BS.

    • Nadzieja Batki

      smilee, you can twist Pelosi’s words any which way you want but your rewording to what she supposedly said still comes out to what Chip Wood said. If you don’t believe Chip, keep rereading Pelosi’s words and you just may get an Aha moment.

    • http://cowboybyte.com/ Alondra

      Did not Barry promiss “no more secrecy” aka transparency.

      • smilee

        Your comment is not relevant to my posts so do not understand your point

        • http://cowboybyte.com/ Alondra

          It is. Watch the video.

        • http://batman-news.com samurai

          No response due to lack of intellectual content. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!
          You need both love of country and faith in GOD to be a patriot. This leaves you out.

          • smilee

            This coming from you only means you have been stumped and can not give any intelligent response.

    • http://batman-news.com samurai

      Lie! Lies! Lies! We knew what she meant, you simpleton fool. If this is true, then why all the backroom deals and money going to the districts of certain members of Congress and to states od senators? A senator from Nebraska rings a bell. We do not need it. Our Christian founding fathers believed that Americans should be self reliant, personally responsible, and have the vigilance to ensure that government remains our servants, not our masters. How can you always come to this site and spout off hate, lies, rhetoric, and innuendo like the less intelligent troll you are? Source? Where is your source? Ooops! I forgot that liars have no sources.
      http://www.conservativevideos.com/2013/07/obama-postpones-obamacare-till-2015-because-he-knows-it-will-be-a-disaster/
      http://www.lastresistance.com/2568/parts-of-obamacare-delayed-to-hide-truth-save-elections/
      http://www.godfatherpolitics.com/11595/white-house-recruits-librarians-to-sell-obamacare/
      Here are the 10 fiascos about Obama bin Laden Care, which is unconstitutional.
      http://www.thehill.com/blogs/healthwatch/health-reform-inplementation/309261-10-obamacare-fumbles
      FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!
      You need both love of country and faith in GOD to be a patriot. This leaves you out.
      “No candid observer will deny that whatever of good there may be in our American civilization is the product of Christianity.”
      Theodore Roosevelt
      26th President of the U.S.
      *This leaves you and your ilk out.

      • smilee

        She said what she said and meant it but you think you can spin it to mean something else and want us to believe you know better than her what she said, your spin only makes it mean what you would like it mean, IT is you who is the liar

        • http://batman-news.com samurai

          No response due to lack of intellectual content. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!
          You need both love of country and faith in GOD to be a patriot. This leaves you out.

          • smilee

            This coming from you only means you have been stumped and can not give any intelligent response.

  • Karolyn

    Seriously? You believe this crap? It’s like that commercial on TV where the girls says something like “It has to be true; I saw it on the internet.”

    • TheOriginalDaveH

      Yes, it looks that way. David Cornhole of Mother Jones is actually David Corn of Mother Jones.

    • WTS/JAY

      TV-commercials, you say? Now there’s a reliable source…! Lol!

      • Karolyn

        Lighten up, Jay. It’s a funny commercial lampooning the ignorance of people who believe everything on the internet has t be true.

        • WTS/JAY

          In case you failed to notice, all i did was post the article…at no time did i suggest it was legitimate or otherwise…?

          • Karolyn

            This the kind of thing that circulates on the internet, very often by email and people will take as gospel because it supports their caus. Many never bother to check the veracity of these things.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            You should be so skeptical of Big Government. They aren’t, contrary to common belief, here to help us.

          • WTS/JAY

            Most definitely and defiantly not!!! They are here to help themselves, and that, most handsomely! But what i’m beginning to suspect, is that, the obama-care advocates are nothing more than shills for the insurance-companies. After all, who will benefit most from obama-care?

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Well, the Leaders will benefit the most, but certainly the Crony Capitalists are feeding at the trough. The Leaders will use them until they don’t need them anymore.

          • WTS/JAY

            Karolyn: This the kind of thing that circulates on the internet…

            What kind of “thing” would that be, Karolyn? You don’t think that its possible that Obama would express such sentiments, especially in light of the egregious-policies he has enacted and passed since lying and pretending his way into office?

            Karolyn: very often by email and people will take as gospel because it supports their caus.

            And what cause would that be…truth?

            Karolyn: Many never bother to check the veracity of these things.

            Many never bother to consider that these “things” may actually be true even despite the overwhelming, circumstantial-evidence that supports the veracity of those “things”…?

          • Bob666

            Yo Karolyn,
            That is what he refers to as “facts”.

          • WTS/JAY

            Oh look, the bottom-feeder finally comes to the surface, only to regurgitate some bile. Hey, 666, you still didn’t answer me on why masonic-lodges are segregated, and why women are not allowed to join! What up with that, captain fantastic?

          • http://cowboybyte.com/ Alondra

            He did not find in Wikipedia about it.

          • Bob666

            Yo Pork-Fest,
            I use Wikipedia as a last resort since people like you can use it to alter the facts. But, I will take Wikipedia over You-Tube any day as that seems to be your altered state of reality for supporting most of the arguments you make.

          • WTS/JAY

            Yo, racist-bigot, Wikipedia? Is that where anybody can change, alter, and modify info, willy nilly? Ok, KKK boy, whatever you say. Lol!

          • Bob666

            Now Jay,
            The KKK?, I did some research when you got your panties twisted up on that assertion that Freemasonry started the KKK and noticed looking at one of the many KKK web sites that you would fit in quite well.

            The long list of people you dislike is very-very similar to their list.

            You really are a very sad and angry little man.

          • http://batman-news.com samurai

            The personal attack. Classic 5th column strategy. We have already told you how the founders of the KKK, in which you even admitted Nathan Bedford Forrest was a mason, were masons and used masonic beliefs and teachings in the founding and operations of the KKK. You still haven’t answered why women cannot be masons, have you? LOL! You are just nothing more than a doormat to wipe my boots on, Bob. Pick up you white laundry from the cleaners yet? FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!
            You need both love of country and faith in GOD to be a patriot. This leaves you out.
            “Masonry ought forever to be abolished. It is wrong – essentially wrong – a seed of evil, which can never produce any good.”
            John Quincy Adams
            Letters on Freemasonry
            1833
            6th President of the U.S.
            Devout Christian

          • Bob666

            Oh Poor Page 183, (AKA -False Witness Sammy)

            “We have already told you how the founders of the KKK, in which you even admitted Nathan Bedford Forrest was a mason, were masons and used masonic beliefs and teachings in the founding and operations of the KKK”

            Let us pull the one and only fact from your statement of lies. Nathan Bedford Forrest was a mason and he was one of the founders of the KKK. Otherwise, there is nothing that you or Spin-master Jay came up with otherwise to prove a relationship between the KKK and Freemasonry.

            Yes, you both came up with fringe and kooky Christian website along with You-Tube (my favorite) that assert there is a relationship, but nothing with facts or credibility.

            Here is a quote from:

            http://www.history.com/topics/ku-klux-klan

            “Klan terrorism, the organization saw its primary goal–the reestablishment of white supremacy–fulfilled through Democratic victories in state legislatures across the South in the 1870s. After a period of decline, white Protestant nativist groups revived the Klan in the early 20th century, burning crosses and staging rallies, parades and marches denouncing immigrants, Catholics, Jews, blacks and organized labor. The civil rights movement of the 1960s also saw a surge of Ku Klux Klan activity, including bombings of black schools and churches and violence against black and white activists in the South”

            here is a quote from:

            http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/Ku_Klux_Klan.aspx

            “William J. Simmons renewed the KKK at a Stone Mountain, Georgia, ceremony in 1915. Later, Christian fundamentalist ministers aided recruitment as the Klan portrayed itself as the protector of traditional values during the Jazz Age”.

            Here is a quote from:

            Factbarn.com

            “Protestant citizens revived the Klan to form the second era of the KKK. This time, along with despising African-Americans, they also showed hatred to Hispanics and Roman Catholics-Jay Bird?

            And wait, here it is:

            http://kkkknights.com/

            “However, we do hate some things that certain groups are doing to our race and Nation. We hate drugs, homosexuality, abortion, and race-mixing because these things go against God’s law and they are destroying all white nations. But rather than focus on hate; we try to focus on the love of our race. Love for our God and Country. Our goal is to help restore America to a White Christian nation founded on God’s word. This does not mean that we want to see anything bad happen to the darker races, we simply want to live separate from them. As GOD intented.(Lev.20:24-25)”

            Notice how they quote the bible just like you and Swine-Stein do? They also use cute little names for Obama like many on this site do.

            and finally:
            http://kukluxklan.net/kkk-history

            “Informally known as the Klan, KKK was and still is a staunch advocate of white nationalism, racial segregation, white supremacy, anti-immigration and anti-communism in the United States. The latter was very evident during the 20th century.

            The Ku Klux Klan started as a group focusing their hate against African-Americans and the white Americans who stood up against slavery during the American Civil War. Over the years, their focus shifted towards Jews, Catholics, homosexuals and other immigrants”.

            The more I read about the KKK, the more I could see several people on this site as being members. I find it interesting that none of the official KKK sites that I reviewed mentioned freemasonry in any way shape or form.

            “You are just nothing more than a doormat to wipe my boots on, Bob. Pick up you white laundry from the cleaners yet”
            Are you boots High-Healed? and My laundry gets delivered by a nice Korean couple.

            I saw the mention of Jungle Bunnies on one of the KKK sites, should we send Alonda an application?

            So Sammy, the only thing that you have brought to this table are lies and innuendo-nothing else.

            “Freemasonry embraces the highest moral laws and will bear the test of any system of ethics or philosophy ever promulgated for the uplift of man.”
            Douglas MacArthur
            General, United States Army

          • Bob666

            Well Jay,
            I’m still waiting for an answer as to why Catholics are not Christians and proof of your assertion that freemasonry started the KKK.

            As far as segregation of men and women, it has been the case for centuries. As far as membership, there is a women’s organization associated the the lodge system.

            As far as segregation of races, that to is one I can’t answer. I have been to black lodges and been welcomed as a mason and many black masons have been guest in our lodge. I can’t speak for others.

            Do you want to joint the NAACP Jay or do you want your son to joint the girl scouts? You really are hitting the bottom feeding frenzy to take cheap shots.

            I can tell you that we have members from Europe and Asia and even a few from the middle east-mostly Jewish in our lodge. As for the bottom feeder comment-looking at many of your post Jay, you really are the pot calling the kettle black.

            I am sure that you will now troll the web for fringe websites and You-Tube to try and make a witty point. So I will sit back as usual and be amused.

          • WTS/JAY

            666: Well Jay, I’m still waiting for an answer as to why Catholics are not Christians and proof of your assertion that freemasonry started the KKK.

            First of all, you would have to know the difference between the RCC and Christianity. And you clearly don’t! Otherwise, you would not make such a ridiculous claim that they are in fact, one and the same. A simple study of the genesis of the RCC should make it clear to even the thickest of dullards that the RCC is anything but, Christian. Perhaps the problem is that you are too thick-headed?

            666: As far as segregation of men and women, it has been the case for centuries. As far as membership, there is a women’s organization associated the the lodge system. As far as segregation of races, that to is one I can’t answer. I have been to black lodges and been welcomed as a mason and many black masons have been guest in our lodge. I can’t speak for others.

            So you admit it…you mason’s are a bunch of bigoted-racists? Thank you!

            666: Do you want to joint the NAACP Jay or do you want your son to joint the girl scouts? You really are hitting the bottom feeding frenzy to take cheap shots.

            How is pointing out that your organization is bigoted and racist, a cheap shot? Its the truth, is it not?

            666: I can tell you that we have members from Europe and Asia and even a few from the middle east-mostly Jewish in our lodge. As for the bottom feeder comment-looking at many of your post Jay, you really are the pot calling the kettle black.

            Spin it any way you like, 666, it still doesn’t change the fact that “segregation” exists!

            666: I am sure that you will now troll the web for fringe websites and You-Tube to try and make a witty point. So I will sit back as usual and be amused.

            No you won’t! You will go back to the bottom and feed on the sludge, only to surface from time to time and emit your bile.

          • Bob666

            Wow Jay,
            You really are a politician without an office. Take about spin….
            “How is pointing out that your organization is bigoted and racist, a cheap shot? Its the truth, is it not.?

            I did not say that Jay, you did. But, in your typical manipulative way-you tried to spin it as if I did.

            As for segregation, do you want to join the NAACP or have your so join the girl scouts? There is segregation there as well but they are not the current organizations that you dislike right now and by you’re own admission-that is a long list.

            “No you won’t! You will go back to the bottom and feed on the sludge, only to surface from time to time and emit your bile”

            Now that was both sad and funny, you have the nerve to call other people trolls? You Jay are the Crap-mister. the purveyor of bile and hate.

            Keep posting and I will keep laughing as I always consider the source. Have fun on You-Tube looking for crap.

            Very sad-but unfortunatly, very real.

          • http://cowboybyte.com/ Alondra

            Are you talking from your own experience?

        • independent thinker

          Actualy it is a commercial trying to sell you insurance.

    • TheOriginalDaveH

      Jay brings up a pertinent point, Karolyn. While indeed there are liars on the Internet (we have plenty of them on this board) why in the world would you assume the broadcast media to be any more trustworthy? If anything, odds are that they’d be less trustworthy because they have a very big stake in the game being largely owned by Crony Capitalists.
      Plus on the Internet it’s much easier to fact check a story or comment than it is to find broadcast statements and check them.

    • http://cowboybyte.com/ Alondra

      Are you denying this O’homobama’s CRAP?

      Another O’homobama’s “hot mike” comments

      O’homobama: On ALL these issues, but PARTICULARLY missile defense, this, this can be solved but it’s important for him to give me space

      Medvedev: yeah, I understand. I UNDERSTAND YOUR MESSAGE about space. Space for you…”

      The FRAUD O: This is my last election. AFTER my election I have more flexibility.

      Medvedev: I understand. I will transmit this information to Vladimir (Putin)

  • Protonius

    Regarding the above-alleged Obama “hot-mike quotes”:

    I’ve just now checked your source, via the weblink in your post. It brings-up the website of “Duh Progressive”. I’m not familiar with that website, but, reading their in-depth “article” about what Obama purportedly said, my impression is that the entire news-looking-article is a SATIRE and has NO actual relationship to reality.

    You may WISH the story were true, but I am certain that it is NOT true.

    • WTS/JAY

      How can you be certain? Something you know that we don’t?

    • http://cowboybyte.com/ Alondra

      Here is another, not ‘alleged’, but verified and confirmed O’homobama’s “hot-mike” living
      proof, where he was caught on “hot mic” with Russian President Medvedev in Seoul (26 March 2012)

      He was caught assuring his Russian counterpart, Dmitry Medvedev (Russian President at time), that he will have “more flexibility” to deal with contentious issues like MISSILE DEFENSE after the US presidential election.

      The FRAUD urged Moscow to give him “SPACE” until after the November 2012 ballot, and Medvedev said he would relay the message to incoming Russian president Vladimir Putin.

      The unusually frank exchange came as Obama and Medvedev huddled together on the eve of a GLOBAL NUCLEAR SECURITY SUMMIT in the South Korean capital.

      O’homobama: On ALL these issues, but PARTICULARLY missile defense, this, this can be solved but it’s important for him to give me space

      Medvedev: yeah, I understand. I UNDERSTAND YOUR MESSAGE about space. Space for you…”

      The FRAUD O: This is my last election. AFTER my election I have more flexibility.

      Medvedev: I understand. I will transmit this information to Vladimir (Putin)

  • Jeff

    “People’s Republic of California”? That was so original . . . . in 1950!!!

  • WTS/JAY

    Homofascists Silenced Gay Dissident John McKellar…

    Lefties who support “gay rights” never ask why all big banks and corporations are promoting it.

    For six-years, 1997-2003, John McKellar, a Canadian homosexual, represented a voice of sanity. As the founder of Homosexuals Opposed to Pride Extremism, he was a tireless critic of the Illuminati bankers’ heterophophic agenda.

    Now he and his organization are gone. I don’t know what happened but when I read this, I understand why:

    He said that in the gay lifestyle,”Compulsive, anonymous sex in bathrooms and parks is much more common than the media want to admit.”

    McKellar described the gay bathhouse as “dirty, with a stench of amyl nitrate and human feces. Amyl nitrate was snorted to get a longer lasting erection, and anal sex was going on all the time, with or without condoms. Some men would hang out in the bathhouse all night and have sex with up to six different partners. It was animalistic.”

    McKellar stated that the gay community sees it as necessary to “get the children when they are young to make gay positive recruits, even if they don’t necessarily become gay themselves. This is why they want homosexuality and all its perversions taught to the children at the earliest possible age.”

    McKellar believed that the majority of homosexuals are not supportive of the pedophile agenda.

    McKellar says he feels the most sorry for transsexuals. “They, more than anyone else, are the most neurotic, into drugs, alcohol, and prostitution, as they are totally messed up about their sexuality.”

    As for tax-funded sex change operations, he says, “I don’t believe in a lot of gay medicine; it’s more mutilation than medicine. The gay community is more well-funded than any else; it should pay for its own elective procedures.”

    McKellar believes it is possible to heal the homosexual condition. He admits that he still struggles and has some failures, but decided to leave the “official” gay scene as “it was too risky and the relationships were always a dead end. ”

    See more at: http://henrymakow.com/2013/07/Gay-Activist-Silenced-by-Heterophobes .html#sthash.E0gSkO67.dpuf

    • http://batman-news.com samurai

      Here is a video showing preachers being attacked by queers at a “No pride fest.”
      http://www.komonews.com/news/crime/Video-shows-crowd-attacking-religious-protesters-at-Pridefest-214151861.html?tab=video&c=y
      If gays are so “cool”, then why do they attack people for telling the truth about their perversions? I guess they’ll find out it is not when the start feeling some serious heat. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!
      You need both love of country and faith in GOD to be a patriot.
      “We believe in the existence of God, and in the immortality of the soul.”
      Thomas Paine
      Age of Reason
      *Not an atheist

      • Bob666

        Yo Page 183,

        The KKK hates “queers” too.

        Just Saying…

        “There is no doubt in my mind that Masonry is the cornerstone of America.”
        Dave Thomas
        Founder of Wendy’s International

        • Guest

          .

          • http://batman-news.com samurai

            So Big Richard (dick) is Bob666? Different name, same crap. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!
            You need both love of country and faith in GOD to be a patriot.

      • Smilee

        It shows a bunch in a scrap but nothing that says who it is or why. if it is what you say it is we only have your word repeated from a propaganda site. We do not even know if the whole thing was acted out so you could make this case. Propagandists are great at that and suckers like yourself buy that BS without honest analysis, you swallow it hook line and sinker as you are so greedy to believe what it is you want to believe and reality be damned.

        • http://batman-news.com samurai

          Is that why the police arrested the man who assulted them, along with a woman, charging them with assult? So they being in jail is not reality? Neeeeed to get your facts straight before you post. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!
          You need both love of country and faith in GOD to be a patriot. This leaves you out.

  • WTS/JAY

    HOW COULD STANLEY ANN DUNHAM HAVE DELIVERED BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA JR. IN AUGUST OF 1961 IN HONOLULU, WHEN OFFICIAL UNIVERSITY OF WASHINGTON RECORDS SHOW HER 2680 MILES AWAY IN SEATTLE ATTENDING CLASSES THAT SAME MONTH?

    http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2008/10/how-could-stanl.html

    • http://cowboybyte.com/ Alondra

      Part 1: Team Arpaio: Obama Used Four Different Names; Republic Has Been Overthrown

      Part 2: Team Arpaio: Republic Has Been Overthrown; Obama Used Four Different Names

      There is NONE record that slut Stanley Ann Dunham was
      pregnant and gave birth to Barry.

      There is NONE evidence that slut Stanley Ann Dunham is Barry’s mommy.

      • Dave

        Alondra,

        Arpaio is a fraud and a liar. His “investigations” in addition being a huge waste of AZ tax payer money has been debunked.
        You are a party to the lie.

        • Dave
          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Pardon me while I dust off.
            Wow! A Progressive actually posted a reference.
            Even if it is about a useless subject.

          • Dave

            I post plenty of references Davey, and much more credible and relevant than Mises or Wiki. Lol

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            ad hominem. Typical Liberal Progressive manipulation.
            Why do you suppose, Dave, that the readers would put credence in anything you say?
            And obviously they don’t, given the number of thumbs down on your comments.

          • Dave

            Not like your ad hominms right Davey?

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Does it upset you that I respond in kind?
            But the readers know that in my typical comments, I give sound arguments and back them up with evidence.
            That’s why you get thumbs down, and I get thumbs up.

          • http://cowboybyte.com/ Alondra

            Of cause he is upset, because he is extremely allergic to the kindness.

            “Some people have a gift for stupidity and mystic ability to withstand any form of logic.” – David Gemmell

          • Dave

            Lol! Respond in kind. LOL. You are the first to attack anyone that refuses to go along with your unproven theories.

            Alondra,

            You are a proven hate-mongrel and fraud. I am surprised you will speak with DaveH. He is an evil atheist.

          • http://cowboybyte.com/ Alondra

            “Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.” – Mark Twain

            Davey, Please PROVE I am “hate-mongrel and fraud” with the FACTS and not with your Liberal Diarrhetical buzz.

            I am surprised you still supporting an illegal Korrupt Kenyan Kriminal, who is totally Ignorant, Decadent, Degenerate, Arrogant Liar, Deceiver, Racist and Cheater – Ego-centrical maniac and extreme PSYCHOPATH.

          • Dave

            There are so many posts of your that are anti-Muslim, anyone that isn’t of your faith. Just look up that line of BS alone, that makes you a hate-monger. You are a liar too Sheriff Joe did use my tax dollars to cook up this debunked investigation. Only idiots feel the need to keep this going because they NEED to believe it. I live in AZ and I know Arpiao to be an attention seeking gloryhound.

          • Dave

            Oh and I forgot that you are nuts on top of it all… Every town has a nut like you so how great is it that you can come here to connect with your fellow nuts?

          • http://cowboybyte.com/ Alondra

            I am so PROUD to be a “nut” in your Liberal eyes.

            And I am glad that I can come here to connect with my “BREED”

          • Dave

            Yep, its always good to know what the fringe element is thinking.

          • http://cowboybyte.com/ Alondra

            I am glad I did satisfy you.
            Good night, sweet Liberal FRINGE.
            Have a nice dream.

            Smile a little bit. Do not be so bitter.

          • smilee

            Thumbs down on this site is a compliment to the that writers post

        • http://cowboybyte.com/ Alondra

          Arpaio is a fraud and a liar. His “investigations” in
          addition being a huge waste of AZ tax payer money has been debunked. You are a party to the lie.

          It’s Libtardic déjà vu all over again.

          Dave says: “His “investigations” in addition being a
          huge waste of AZ tax payer money has been debunked”

          It’s a LIE. Not penny of tax-payers money was spent on his INVESTIGATION and it has NOT been “debunked”, but FORENSICALLY PROVEN.

          Davey, Arizona’s Libtards failed in their effort to recall “a fraud and a liar” Sheriff Joe Arpaio.

          Sheriff Joe Arpaio continues to be the most POPULAR Sheriff in America, the FACT, which so much irritates and infuriates Libtard Left Wingers.

          These are UNDENIABLE and UNDISPUTABLE Proof

          O’Homobama’s Selective Service Registration is
          forged as well.

          “Great is TRUTH, and mighty above all things.” 2Ezdra 4:41

          P.S. I am NOT a LIAR. I am the TRUTH messenger.

          Davey, please do not bring up your crap. TY

          Alondra, PROUD “Truther” and Teabeger

        • Seanoamericano

          Wrong and wrong again who debunked it? Arpaio is many things but on this his investigation has shown beyond the shadow of doubt the the BC presented is a fraudulent document. There is proof also in the Selective Service Card and the use of several SSN. Just because you pukes on the left believe it dont make it true. Besides show me proof that the BC is real

    • http://batman-news.com samurai

      We’ve been asking these questions since 2008 – 2009 and have received no answers. Maybe Bob666, rbrooks, smilee, or some other form of low liberal life could answer? Here is an article that implicates how Morsi and Obama bin Laden could have acted together in our embassy in Benghazi being attacked.
      http://www.wnd.com/2013/07/egypts-morsi-behind-murder-of-u-s-ambassador/
      I guess that is what the members of the muslim brotherhood do. I guess they act just like their brothers the masons. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!
      You need both love of country and faith in GOD to be a patriot.
      “Having undertaken, for the glory of God, and advancement of the Christian faith, and honor of our king and country, a voyage to plant the first colony in the northern parts of Virginia, do by these presents solemnly and mutually, in the presence of God, and one of another, covenant and combine ourselves together into a civil body politic, for our better ordering and preservation and furtherance of the ends aforsaid;and by virue hereof to enact, constitute, and frame each just and equal laws, ordinances, acts, constitutions and offices, from time to time, as shall be thought most meet and convenient for the general good for the Colony…”
      Mayflower Compact
      1620

      • smilee

        Your beating a dead horse, official records show he was born in Hawaii in Aug 1961, statements to the contrary are pure propaganda with no official documentation so they have gotten no where.

        • http://batman-news.com samurai

          Lies! Lies! Lies! Every single record he has produced has been proven to be a fraud, like you. This coming from a person that has “0” credibility on the board? Why don’t you answer Jay, since he has the source to prove you wrong? Neeeeed to be making that popping sound. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!
          You need both love of country and faith in GOD to be a patriot. This leaves you out.
          “America was born a Christian nation – America was born to exemplify that devotion to the elements of righteousness which are derived from the revelations of the Bible.”
          Woodrow Wilson
          28th President of the U.S.

          • smilee

            This coming from you only means you have been stumped and can not give any intelligent response. You know what I said is true!!!

          • Scifidave

            * “America was born a Christian nation – America was born to exemplify that devotion to the elements of righteousness which are derived from the revelations of the Bible.”

            Rewriting history, are we? Europeans fled to America for opportunity and to escape the totalitarian nature of religion in Europe. They didn’t come here to create a Christian theocracy.

            Sad that people feel it necessary to invoke God in their arguments. Tells me they have nothing more concrete to offer than trumping up some mythical being.

            I’m not an atheist and I was raised a Christian, but at some point in my early years I saw through the phoniness of Sunday school teachings. Some people, apparently, never graduated.

        • Seanoamericano

          Official records were sealed and the only thing that has been presented is the fraudulent BC The propaganda is the stuff presented by the admin.

          • smilee

            Nothing has been sealed that is an out and out lie and you cannot prove otherwise as it does not exist as you say. The state of Hawaii issued a letter saying it is genuine and that it is a matter of record there and was recorded the week he was born. Like I said you are beating a dead horse and still expecting the horse to bellow and express pain, how silly is that but that is your take on it.

          • Seanoamericano

            The only lies are that it is real, and yes the records are sealed since he paid for all his records to be hidden. He is nothing more than a kenyan born rat and a national embarrassment.

          • smilee

            100% untrue, if your going to persist on these lies why not show us the source of the lies, far right propaganda and I challenge you to show other wise

          • Seanoamericano

            All of this can be resolved if he releases the original documents along with his school records. Look up Harrison J Bounel another alias he used. The amount of evidence is overwhelming that he is a fraud. There is no evidence that says he isnt, other than his word and a letter anybody could have written. Look it up for yourself. Propaganda by nature is used to influance dim witted people into believing in false hoods. The truth needs no such help Look at the martin case for more use of propaganda and the effects on lo info voters by guess who? Hey it still working on lots of people.

          • smilee

            Why should he, except for the Birth Certificate he is not required too and that he did release. There is no evidence, we hear there is all the time but you never show any as it does not exist so you cannot

            . “Propaganda by nature is used to influance dim witted people into believing in false hoods” .

            It sure has worked on you!!

            He is smart to ignore the snoopy likes of you and your post is 100% lies and you did not even try to prove otherwise.

          • Seanoamericano

            So you think that that after the evil right and the remnants of liberty and freedom along with the Republic is replaced with this socialist garbage, those in control will give it away the banks will treat you fair and the military industrial complex will quit waging wars. Ibet that after youare disarmed and all of your rights are gone and you are at the mercy of those same people. you might understand what socialism is all about. I hope so. At least you will have good health care.

  • Robbie

    We had the same “problem” here in Canada when we devised Universal Health Care decades ago. People were afraid of the unknown. Our plan basically took tax dollars to fund hospitals, clinics, and to pay doctors and other health care workers. And every citizen was entitled to proper health care from then onwards. We view health care as a right not something you can have only if you are wealthy. What we found was that our population was healthier after socialized medicine came to be because there was far more preventive medicine. People didn’t have to wait until they were on death’s door in the expensive ER rooms across the nation. Nowadays we view hospitals and doctors the same way we view the fire department and firefighters. When you need care you get it just like the fire trucks arriving if your house catches fire.

    And it can’t be all bad seeing as Mitt Romney set up a almost identical system when he was governor and citizens of that state love it to this day. Soon it will be in effect in all of the country. Of course adjustments will be necessary. No giant plan like that gets it all right tight off the bat. Don’t worry, it will all work out well and for the best before too long.

    • WTS/JAY

      (NaturalNews) In some places across the US, high-cost health insurance coverage is being discarded altogether. The looming Affordable Care Act health insurance mandate seems to be inspiring constructive disobedience.

      Yes, doctors are now “outsmarting” this government mandated health care system and moving towards a cash only system. This is leading to more affordable, expansive care for many – as the red tape is eliminated. Quality, affordable health care will return to America, not through blind compliance to mandates, but from those who completely defy the health insurance system altogether. As doctors move toward a much simpler system, they can charge less and also spend more time caring about their patients instead of dealing with unneeded paperwork.

      Kansas physician cuts through the red tape…
      http://www.naturalnews.com/040873_doctors_health_insurance_patient_fees.html#ixzz2YDuH6k4t

      • Robbie

        What a shame. Hard to imagine a so-called Christian society going along with the concept that if you were lucky enough to have a rich uncle who left you piles of cash or lucky enough to win the jackpot in Reno that you get to have proper health care when some hard working stiff earning the bare minimum has to wait until some illness lands him in the ER. That’s a system worthy of getting reformed. Mitt did it when he was governor and they love it in that state to this day.

        • WTS/JAY

          Robbie: Mitt did it when he was governor and they love it in that state to this day.

          No they don’t. In fact, they hate it! That is, the people that are the producers that are forced to pay for the non-producers. Of course, the lazy butt-heads love it, and that’s because they don’t have to pay anything for it. Another words, if you’re a dead-beat and wilfully contribute nothing, i have to pay for your sorry-azz, whether i want to or not; i have no choice! Isn’t that the way it works in Canada, where the majority are a bunch of dead-beats? For sure!

          But the truth is, simpleton, the insurance companies would have been happy with either Obama or Romney, in 2012. Why? Because, by forcing insurance on millions of people previously without coverage Obama-care will provide insurance companies with MILLIONS of new customers, which will guarantee fatter profits for private insurance companies.

          And do you think insurance companies have your best interest in mind? Sure…about as much as banks do!

          Can’t you see that this so-called obama-care is just another example of Corporatocracy? Come on, wake the hell up!

          • Robbie

            I actually agree with the last part of your comment. Most Canadians would totally agree that when health care is involved insurance companies should not be involved. That’s why we don’t allow it. In the U.S. something like 30% of health care dollars go to the insurance companies and/or their shareholders. 30%!!! Instead of going to actual health care. But remember that Obama had to compromise and cater to the all mighty free enterprise system that America so covets. Perhaps some future president (Hilary?) will be able to improve upon Obamacare. Health should not be for profit.

            As far as you having to pay for those sad folks who have nothing and can hardly look after themselves at all why don’t you just move to a country where “dead beats” like that simply get eliminated. I remember during the late 1930’s and 1940 when, in Germany, Hitler took care of the infirm, the retarded, the mentally ill, the physically handicapped, and Jews. What he did was round up the useless trash like that and killed them. He was going to create a better society and a better world by simply getting rid of those who were useless. The logical conclusion of your comments is just that: get rid of the dead beats right?

          • http://batman-news.com samurai

            He stopped killing the mentally ill, handicapped, and the retarded after the people and the Lutheran Church protested. Get you facts of history right before you post. Here is something from the WSJ about Obama bin Laden Care.
            http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Wall-Street-Journal-Obamacare-apology2013/07/04/id/513383?s=al&promo_code=14113-1
            FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!
            You need both love of country and faith in GOD to be a patriot. This leaves you out.
            “Reputation is what men and women think of us, character is what God and the angels know of us.”
            Thomas Paine
            *Not an atheist

          • Robbie

            Oh, he stopped killing the mentally ill, handicapped, and retarded did he? How many did he murder before that happened or did he just run out of victims? And how about killing Jews? He did stop doing that as well? And do you really think he responded in any way positive to so-called protestations of any church? Get real. This is not about checking the facts of history. This is about you having your head examined.

          • http://batman-news.com samurai

            It is a historical fact that he stopped killing all the groups you mentioned, except the Jews. They kept dying till their camps were liberated. Another personal attack. Classic 5th column strategy. I guess you are trying to describe Hitler with his atheist mentality. Here is something showing what this time of year is about.
            http://www.clashdaily.com/2013/07/faith-freedom-independence-day/
            FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!
            You need both love of country and faith in GOD to be a patriot. This leaves you out.
            “The cause of America is in a great measure the cause of all mankind. Where, say some, is the King of America? I’ll tell you, friend, He reigns above.”
            Thomas Paine
            Common Sense 1776
            *Not an atheist

          • smilee

            Sammie, You have more than met your match in Robbie, she/he is making a fool of you, not really, you made a fool of yourself she/he just shined a bright light on your foolishness!!

          • Dave

            Its not difficult to make Samurai look like a fool. he does it himself of his signoff.

            “You need both love of country and faith in GOD to be a patriot.”

            I wonder if DaveH knows how much contempt the anti-Freedom advocate Samurai has for him since he is an atheist and cannot be a “patriot” according to king Samurai?

            Samarai, and other idiots like him seem to be fine with people having to declare bankruptcy over medical issues. They think health care is like buying a car. Lets see how that feel about that comparison when they are having a heart attack.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            At least he isn’t trying to steal my money, and make my choices for me, Dave.
            I would take Religious people to Pushy Progressives any day of the week.

          • Dave

            Lol. Abortion laws, same-sex marriage, the Iraq war, the Patriot Act… All courtesy of conservatives.

            You once again show your complete ignorance of progressives. Just know if conservatives like Samurai had their way, you would be killed out of the country or killed fir daring to question their fables.

            Good luck with that.

            Conservatives steal money too Davey, you just excuse their motivations because you are one of them

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Actually, Dave, you are showing your ignorance. Those are all efforts from NeoCon Progressives. Real Conservatives might object to some of those moral mistakes but they would never use the Federal Government to Force them on others.

            Damn, Dave, how much longer are you going to remain ignorant?
            http://mises.org/daily/1259/The-Progressive-Era-and-the-Family

          • Dave

            Lol… Once again you lie, like saying George W Bush is a progressive. The reason you do this is because he is a massive embarrassment to your side.

            Real conservatives would never use the power of the Fed Gov to impose their will on others??? Bwahahahaha… Ok Davey, keep believing that nonsense Davey, neither did the Taliban, the Nazis, or conservatives in this country that instituted Jim Crow laws or maintained slavery in the early 1800’s

            You arevas funny as you a complete liar about progrressives and the history of conservatives.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Poor Dave, the readers know that he has no credibility and he is getting desperate.

          • Dave

            Not as sad as DaveH and his ability to lie about progressives and his trying to re-write conservative history, calling anyone on his side a “neo-con” that screwed up royally instead of accepting responsibility. But then again when has a conservative EVER accepted responsibility?

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            The readers know who the liar is, Dave. That’s why your comments consistently get thumbs down.

          • Dave

            In a completely unbiased uber conservative site. What a scientist you are. In a group of Nazis, do you ask for an unbiased opinion of the Jews too?

            What a conservative.

          • Smilee

            Only from know nothings like your self which only proves Dave right

          • Dave

            Wow, in a shocking development… DaveH has nothing to endorse the conservative movement on social
            Issue. Amazing.

          • Smilee

            This statement show you are the one getting desperate as it is you who is resorting to lies.

          • Dave

            Damn those “pushy” progressives with their Social Security that drastically reduced the incidence of elderly poverty. Those jerk progressives with their Medicare, civil rights, women’s rights and marriage equality.

            We should just discuss all the positive things social conservatives have done for the world. Davey, go ahead… You start.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            If a private businessman ran his pension fund like the Government runs Social Security, he’d be in jail:
            http://mises.org/daily/5658/Is-Social-Security-a-Ponzi-Scheme

          • Dave

            Do you know how DaveH has nothing? He switches subjects and inserts a nonsensical mises link because deep in his “heart” he knows what side of history conservatives have been on when it comes to the true meaning of freedom. The wrong side. If we left the world to conservatives… Slavery would still be the law of the land, women would not be able to vote and we would still be under British rule. Poor conservatives don’t even realize how morally bankrupt their positions on social issues.

          • Scifidave

            The Muslim world was once to most progressive society on earth. Then the religious fundamentalists forced their ideology on the populace and look where they are now.

            Women can’t drive and must conceal their physicality under heavy clothing. Now most of the populace is poor and a small group holds all the wealth. Very much like where our country is going.

            Conservatives have no vision, only the guidance of a flawed past. That’s the reason they aren’t called progressives.

          • Smilee

            Saw last night on “Need to Know” they showed figures on the drop in poverty for seniors since SS became law. When it was passed it was about 1/3 of seniors were in poverty now in 2012 it was 3% so that is very true.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Both George Bush’s were Progressives, Dave, and you either know that and are just shilling, or you are beyond ignorant.

          • http://cowboybyte.com/ Alondra

            BOTH.
            He is the only person who isn’t aware of his own ignorance.

            “We are all born ignorant, but one MUST WORK HARD to remain STUPID.” – Benjamin Franklin

          • Dave

            Lol… Yeah only in your conservative perverted mind are they conservatve. If Bush 2 is a progressive, then so was Reagan and you are too much of an intellectual coward to admit such things. You are a liar and a fraud.

          • http://batman-news.com samurai

            No response due to lack of intellectual content. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!
            You need both love of country and faith in GOD to be a patriot.

          • smilee

            This coming from you only means you have been stumped and can not give any intelligent response.

          • smilee

            Newsmax, wow, another conservative agenda site that cares little about the truth, typical reading for sammie who cnnnot think for himself.

          • smilee

            A recent documentary (2013) of the MA health care system shows over 60% love it and do not want to go back and on balance it has had no negative effect on their economy and their health care and delivery have improve considerably.

          • Scifidave

            The Canadian health care plan was widely denounced, even by Canadians, when it was first introduced, but especially by social conservatives who hated the idea of big government. You don’t hear much negative anymore and most Canadians I’ve talked with now think it’s great.

            France created a system where the doctors all work for the government, earn a salary and don’t pay 6 figures for malpractice insurance. Medical costs to patients plummeted and health care improved dramatically. The now have among the lowest infant death rates of all nations. The US is down around 46 on the list.

            Universal health care works, despite what all the neocon pundits and all those who profit by the current system here say.

            Medicare, Medicaid and the VA were the first steps and now we have the ACA. It’s flawed, no doubt about that, but it’s an important step on the path to universal health care in America.

            Like everything the government does, they must first insure that the big players get their pound of flesh before us working stiffs.

          • smilee

            A recent documentary (2013) showed that well over 60% love it and has not caused a drag on their economy does not save a lot but does not cost more either, People will love Obamacare too in 5 years just like in MA. Like Mayo Clinic said it is a very good start but more needs to done and it will once Obamacare is accepted and loved and it will be and then congress will be hearing the same thing about Obamacare as they now hear about medicare do not touch my medicare and then they will start to look at cost containment which was not feasible now.

      • http://cowboybyte.com/ Alondra

        Three years ago, Dr. Keith Smith, co-founder and managing partner of the Surgery Center of Oklahoma, took an initiative that would only be considered radical in
        the health care industry: He posted online a list of prices for 112 common surgical procedures.

        Self-funded companies, like individual patients, can negotiate directly with hospitals for lower price. Recently a handful of self-funded Fortune 500 companies struck deals DIRECTLY with major hospitals to care for their patients for a negotiated fee.

        In Oklahoma City, there’s an alternative health care market taking shape in which hospitals offers competitive FLAT FEE
        prices to self-funded companies. And it’s all modeled after the Surgery Center.

        http://reason.com/reasontv/2012/11/15/the-obamacare-revolt-oklahoma-doctors-fi

      • rbrooks

        all the dr’s are doing is requiring the patients to file their own insurance claim(s). not a new concept. does not change the fact that the patient has insurance and uses that insurance for payment.

    • http://batman-news.com samurai

      You sure they love it? Isn’t this why the state of Massachusetts is in such dire economic straights? Here is a video that will show people will die from Obama bin Laden Care.
      http://www.redstate.com/2013/07/03/how-many-people-will-die-because-obamacare-suddenly-can-wait/
      Here is something else about your boy Obama bin Laden and his DOJ.
      http://www.wnd.com/2013/07/doj-governments-can-punish-homeschoolers
      FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!
      You need both love of country and faith in GOD to be a patriot.
      “I understand that I live in a Christian nation. Without a vibrant and vital Christianity, America is doomed, and without America, the West is doomed. God help Jews if America ever becomes a post-Christian society! Just think of Europe!”
      Rabbi Daniel Lathan

      • Robbie

        Yes.

        No.

        • http://batman-news.com samurai

          Care to site a source showing it isn’t the root cause for their economic problems, hmmm? Here is an article that shows how Americans believe our Christian founding fathers would be disappointed in this country.
          http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/07/04/Poll-Americans-believe-founders-disappointed
          I know I am. This country need to get back to only going by the Constitution and our Christian founding. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!
          You need both love of country and faith in GOD to be a patriot. This leaves you out.
          “Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatique of supporting it.”
          Thomas Paine
          *Not an atheist

          • Robbie

            Mass. is doing just fine. Not much different than other parts of the country and doing better than many other parts. What, do you think it is some kind of banana republic in South America? In any case they sure have not ditched the socialized medical system that Mitt gave them. They have kept it on after all these years. You don’t hear anything about repealing it because the majority likes it just fine and Dems keep getting elected there in case you didn’t notice. Those truths are good enough for me even though you wish it was otherwise for whatever reasons you might have.

            I’m not sure if the Founders would be disappointed with modern America or not. Haven’t thought about that. One thing for sure is that they would be shocked with modern ways of life. After all we are talking about a bunch of rich British white guys from 250 years ago! But for sure they would be impressed with the fact that their Constitution was still being used. They’d love the fact that people from all over the world still want to come to America. They’d be impressed with American military might and political role in the world. They be shocked that man has landed on the Moon and on Mars. They would be amazed that the country had grown to the west coast and they’d curious about the fact that now negro (their word) people are now full citizens. Oh, and that women are allowed to vote. And that gay people are allowed to marry and that little kid don’t have to work in factories, etc., etc. Come to think of it they’d be pretty impressed with all the progress the country has made.

          • http://batman-news.com samurai

            They would not be happy with gay marriage, socialist programs, liberals, progressives, some of our founding fathers believed in educating women and negros (Benjamin Rush comes to mind), but the other things they may be impressed with. But some things they would not tolerate would be how our government does not go by the Constitution, the large size of it, and how Obama bin Laden became president, though he is not a natural born citizen. Here is an article about what we must do to keep our freedom. Read the last quote by Samuel Adams. Sounds like an idea to me.
            http://www.politichicks.tv/column/to-remain-independent-we-must-work-to-preserve-it/
            FOR GOD AND COUNTRY! 하나님하고 나라를 위해서!
            You need both love of country and faith in GOD to be a patriot. This leaves you out.
            “…if they would see America free and pure they will make their own spirits free and pure by this baptism of the Holy Scriptures.”
            Woodrow Wilson
            28th President of the U.S.

          • Robbie

            The Founders were not only progressives but they were REVOLUTIONARIES! Or did you forget that it’s called the REVOLUTIONARY WAR or the AMERICAN REVOLUTION. Do those terms ring a bell at all? If the Founders had been CONSERVATIVE the U.S. would still be a colony of Great Britain.

          • Scifidave

            If the Founders were anything like today’s conservatives, this would be so true.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            SciDave, it’s doubtful that you understand the difference between a NeoConservative Progressive and a true Conservative. I’m not talking about how people perceive themselves. I know psychopaths who think they are decent human beings. I’m talking about the category where those people actually belong.
            The people who you refer to as Conservatives are really NeoConservative Progressives who are just on the other side of the Progressive coin from Liberal Progressives. What do they both have in common? The desire to Force their way on other people using Big Government as their Proxy Forcers.
            They work in a perpetual tag-team effort to grow the scaffolding of Government ever larger, so the Leaders and their Crony Capitalists can assure their positions as overlords to the rest of us.

          • rbrooks

            the founders were called traitors and criminals by the english. today they would be called terrorists.

            what they did provide was the means to change. and to be free of the tyranny that sammy, daveh and their ilk would try to force on the public.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Imagine that, the mentally-bankrupt rbrooks calls Libertarians, who believe in voluntary choices — tyrannists.
            Thanks, rbrooks, for showing the readers that you are just the typical desperate Liberal Progressive shill, who will stoop as low as it takes to mislead other people.

          • rbrooks

            your ignorance of history is simply astounding. your definitions and your applications of them are amazingly ignorant.

            your only rebuttal to anyone that disagrees with you or shows how ignorant your little rants are, is to stomp your feet and whine about a liberal progressive.
            the truth is that you are more of a liberal than i am.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Conservatives want to “conserve” the status quo. So of course, the Conservatives were those who supported British rule. The Liberals (back then) were those who supported Freedom. The labels mean something entirely different now. That’s why we Libertarians refer to those Founders who were considered Liberal back then as Classical Liberals now. Most modern day Liberals are against Freedom and for Big Government.

            Many of the Founders were indeed Progressive (that is, they were in favor of Big Government). But their idea of Big Government amounted to a Government that consumed about 3% of the GDP, compared to our current Government which consumes over 40% of our GDP.

            Read this very interesting book to learn how our country was really founded. It’s different than the Propaganda that we’ve all had foisted on us by the Public Schools:
            http://library.mises.org/books/Murray%20N%20Rothbard/Conceived%20in%20Liberty_Vol_2.pdf

          • Seanoamericano

            Liberals arent concerned about freeedom they are the ones who want to restrict and take freedom. Liberals are generally for larger Govt. Bigger Govt means less freedom for the individual Forced health care Gun control invasion of privacy everything you see that infringes on freedom is pushed by the left. Neither party has any respect for our heritage or history and are equally to blame for the problems. It dont matter what side is in control it is bad for the People. I have nothing but contempt and am disgusted at them all. For as bad as it is socialism is a giant step down and the worst possible answer of all. Comparing the forunding fathers to the enlightened is wrong since those are the ones that they saw as the problem and wanted to keep from becoming what they are.

          • smilee

            Thanks Robbie, the spanking you gave little sammie was long overdue.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Does being spanked with conjecture hurt?

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Lots of conjecture. Little substance.
            From everything I’ve read the Founders were wiser than most of the people in current times. Much of that came from actual experience with self-interested controlling Leaders who made no efforts to conceal that fact.
            For those who want to be more educated than the typical Liberal Progressive about the experiences that our ancestors lived through:
            http://library.mises.org/books/Murray%20N%20Rothbard/Conceived%20in%20Liberty_Vol_2.pdf

          • Seanoamericano

            The Constitution has been shredded the 1st 4th and 5th gone by NSA NDAA Patriot Act. The second is being attacked by scum globalists. Disgusted the way politicians no longer have any honor, putting them selves first. The disgusting debt and abandonment of sound monetary policies, in fact owing the same D bags they fought against to begin with. The military is under un control. Probably offended that a negro who isnt even qualified to be president is destroying what they worked and bled to create. By the way man hasnt walked on Mars yet. Im sure that they would be utterly disgusted at what they would see has been allowed to happen and wonder why we havent used the remedies they put in place for just such an event. I would hang my head in shame and ask forgiveness for not standing vigilant to protect the Republic. Some how I dont think they would be willing to forgive us.

          • Robbie

            But man HAS landed on Mars which is what I said. You changed it in your mind to say something else. Try working on comprehension.

          • Seanoamericano

            Is that all the better you can do is pick out semantics? You used progress when regress is what you meant at the end as is regressed back to what it was before the revolutionary war.

          • Robbie

            Semantics? Fact is you claimed that I said man had walked on Mars. I said no such thing because man has NOT walked on Mars. But we did land a craft there. Precision in words and language is important for proper communications. Don’t you find that as well?

          • Seanoamericano

            They be shocked that man has landed on the Moon and on Mars.
            They would be shocked that man has walked on the moon and sending a few craft to Mars for exploration.

            I agree that the proper use of words is important to good communication. But in the wrong hands it is a problem.

            So beyond that one simple mistake. I am sure that they would be disgusted by the revoking of freedoms and the slow death of the republic by disgusting socialists. By your labeling them as rich British white guys shows how little you know about the founders. My bet is you are an educated idiot. Meaning a college degree but by a revisionist system that ignores facts that dont agree with their left wing liberal views.

          • Robbie

            Maybe you are correct after all and the Founders would be shocked or at least disappointed in how American society has evolved. They would be shocked, for instance, that the slaves had been freed and that people with dark skin were now allowed full civil rights (most of the time). The Founders would be shocked that women were now allowed human and political rights. They would be really surprised that folks who did not own property were also now given political power. And they certainly would be shocked that folks of all sexual orientations were gaining civil and human rights to a greater degree. You see the Founders – as flowery as their language was – had great vision but that vision applied to a very narrow range of people at that time and the story of America has always been one of evolution and progress and change. I’d like to think that because the Founders were a product of the European Enlightenment that they would be pleased with how things have gone because they did say that ALL men were created equal. But do you know what? if the Founders were NOT pleased with how America has gone well, that’s just too damn bad.

          • Robbie

            Maybe you are correct after all and the Founders would be shocked or at least disappointed in how American society has evolved. They would be shocked, for instance, that the slaves had been freed and that people with dark skin were now allowed full civil rights (most of the time). The Founders would be shocked that women were now allowed human and political rights. They would be really surprised that folks who did not own property were also now given political power. And they certainly would be shocked that folks of all sexual orientations were gaining civil and human rights to a greater degree. You see the Founders – as flowery as their language was – had great vision but that vision applied to a very narrow range of people at that time and the story of America has always been one of evolution and progress and change. I’d like to think that because the Founders were a product of the European Enlightenment that they would be pleased with how things have gone because they did say that ALL men were created equal. But do you know what? if the Founders were NOT pleased with how America has gone well, that’s just too damn bad.

          • Katrael

            Thomas Jefferson said: “We hold these truths to be self evident, that ALL men are created equal. What’s with the first part of your comment? “Maybe you are correct after all and the Founders would be shocked or at
            least disappointed in how American society has evolved. They would be
            shocked, for instance, that the slaves had been freed and that people
            with dark skin were now allowed full civil rights (most of the time).” Are you trying to say that the “Founders” would have preferred that the slaves remain slaves?

          • Robbie

            I can’t comment on the inner preferences of anyone else. Supposedly some of the Founders were against slavery but then some owned slaves – Jefferson for example. I guess if Jefferson felt the slaves should have been freed because all men are created equal then he would have freed his own slaves. Keep in mind that at that time African slaves were not considered to have any human rights whatsoever – they were property plain and simple much like a horse or any other beast of burden. Plus women had no civic rights either. But they lived over 250 years ago when only white males had rights so we can not fault the Founders for having those views. Of course times have changed – as they will continue to do. “ALL men are created equal” simply did not mean then what it means now.

          • Katrael

            “I can’t comment on the inner preferences of anyone else. Supposedly some
            of the Founders were against slavery but then some owned slaves -” Then why did you go on to say what did later? You don’t know how complicated the idea of freeing slaves would be during a time when slavery existed. Those slaves were probably better off in the care of someone who truly cared for them. Yet, I don’t know that for sure either. It’s also possible that not all slave owners were degenerate slobs who were abusive towards their slaves. Today we have economic slavery where the people who produce are forced to work for people who don’t work.and produce nothing and they do this through their taxes. Nothing has changed except the color of the skin

          • Katrael

            Then you need to stop being lazy and be precise yourself if you want to be understood.

          • Robbie

            I was totally precise: man has landed on the Moon and on Mars. Some other poster wrongly said that I had said that man walked on Mars which, of course, is not the case and I had not said that. Are you having a comprehension problem?

          • Katrael

            You sir are mistaken. You weren’t precise and if someone, like our “Founders”, had read your post they would have been misled. You were not “precise” I believed I knew what you were saying only because I didn’t believe you were that ignorant of our times and that you meant that man had actually physically set foot on Mars. Now I see that you won’t admit to an error and I have lost much of my respect for you. I know you won’t loose any sleep over this loss. Besides, a person who has a comprehension problem may have one about a post as imprecise as yours was if they don’t know you and know what you believe.

          • Robbie

            Did we land on the Moon? Yes. Did we land on Mars? Yes. Did we WALK on the surface of Mars? No. And I didn’t say that we did.

          • Katrael

            Then you only meant to mislead people who might not know what you know. You were not precise you were lazy.

          • Robbie

            Now you are being silly. I said that man had landed on the moon and on Mars. And as I’ve tried to spell out – and as you know – I am correct. I merely took exception to someone here claiming that I had said that we had WALKED on Mars which I never said. But what I’m beginning to see is that you are rather contrary and trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill. And you have even forgotten what the original topic was: how the Founders would feel about modern day America.

          • Katrael

            No, you didn’t say “walked” but the word “landed” can imply that. This misunderstanding could easily happen between two people who don’t know each other. So, I’m not being silly, I’m taking exception to your statement of your being precise. I guess you don’t know what the meaning of the word is? So for your benefit I’ll give you Webster’s definition: “exact or sharply defined or stated: minutely exact…. You were anything but exact. You see, if we can’t even agree to what “precise” ,means then other accurate communication isn’t possible.
            As far as the “Founders being “progressive” because they were looking for a “new” form of government, well I’ll have to do some homework because I don’t think that a republican form of government was unknown to them, in other words: I don’t think they were the original ones to dream up a republican form of government. But, I claim ignorance here.

            I will say that I believe the “Founders” would be deeply emotionally upset with what they would see today. I can’t prove it and you can’t say otherwise. I believe those men had very conservative notions about how life should be and men getting married to men and having sex with each other wouldn’t fit the bill of conservative behavior. But, this subject of sexual preferences would only be the beginning of what would have upset them. I also believe they would be appalled at the way our government appropriates and spends money. There is little to nothing in this modern society that they would find acceptable.

          • Robbie

            I figure a space ship – or any kind of a craft – can land someplace and those on board can get out and walk around or not as the case may be. It would be difficult for folks to walk on a planet had they not landed on it first unless, of course, they jumped out before it landed but then there could be the possibility of them breaking both legs and not being able to walk at all. Then – if they lived – they would have to just crawl around and how would that look in the history books?: “Man Crawls on Mars”!

            The first republican form of government was in ancient Rome around the time of Christ. They had a Senate and representatives of both the wealthy class (patricians) and the lower class (plebians). The Founders would have known about this from their history books. In fact most of the architecture in Washington, D.C., as well as most of the state capital buildings are faux Roman in appearance. The Jefferson Memorial in Washington is virtually a copy of the Pantheon which you can still visit in Rome. It opened in the year 2 and is virtually intact to this day. Most pillars that you would see on older buildings in America – especially depression era post offices – are copies of Roman capitals.

            The Founders were among the most progressive and enlightened folks of their era so one might assume that they at least would try to take in the modern world with an open mind but, of course, the rate of change has been profound. How would we react to the world 200 from today?

          • Katrael

            Thanks for the history lesson, As far as our progressive “Founders” are concerned. I’m sure that they were progressive in the dictionary sense; that they were willing to apply new concepts to old problems, but by your own admission they were relying on old ideas to solve problems. That’s not progress. I have to admit that I’ve been using the more modern application of the word “progress” as to mean that these men would be willing to accept a homosexual society as good and normal and that they would accept our modern system that taxes those who have for the sake of those that don’t. I’m sure they didn’t believe in any of that.. Also, the ideas of homosexuality, sodomy, bestiality, abortion, abortifacients, taxing those that have and giving it to those who don’t and a host of other modern progressive evils were anathema them. They were quite familiar with all of these concepts as lifestyle choices. After all, the Romans did all of those things.

            The first part of your comment is pure silliness and you know that you are wrong and that is why you posted what you did.

            Be well and prosper

            Katrael.

          • Robbie

            Well, of course it was silly. I was simply trying to counter your silliness the best I could.

            Regarding homosexuality it is time some folks realized that such a state is natural in 10 – 20% of the population and their ain’t a thing you can do about that unless you are in Iran where gay people – like the daughter of VP Dick Cheney – are simply murdered. Allah Akbar and God Bless America!

          • Katrael

            I don’t care if someone is homosexual as long as what they practice stays hidden. Like I said before: a person has a right to do whatever they want but they also have the right to suffer the consequences of their actions. Homosexuality is a crime against nature and it’s rewards means that they don’t pass there aberrant genes on Hallelujah. It most certainly does not comprise 10 – 20% of the population. It does in some cities but within the general population it only comprises 2 – 5%. The bottom line: we may always have homosexuals but the practice needs to be strongly discouraged.

            United States

            The Williams Institute at UCLA School of Law, a sexual orientation law think tank, released a study in April 2011[24]
            estimating based on its research that 1.7 percent of American adults
            identify as gay or lesbian, while another 1.8 percent identify as
            bisexual. Drawing on information from four recent national and two
            state-level population-based surveys, the analyses suggest that there
            are more than 8 million adults in the US who are lesbian, gay, or
            bisexual, comprising 3.5% of the adult population. Of men, 2.2% identify
            as gay and an additional 1.4% as bisexual. Of women, 1.1% identify as
            lesbian and an additional 2.2% as bisexual.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_sexual_orientation

            What do the experts say?

            When asked about GLB population statistics, Gary J. Gates, a Senior Research Fellow at The Williams Institute on Sexual Orientation Law and Public Policy, says:

            “That’s the single question that I’m asked the most. The answer is
            unfortunately not simple. I’ll respond with a question. What do you mean
            when you use the word ‘gay’? If you mean people who identify as gay,
            lesbian, or bisexual in a survey, then the answer is that it’s likely
            not one in ten, but closer to one in twenty. A recent government survey
            found that 4 percent of adults aged 18-45 identified as ‘homosexual’ or
            ‘bisexual.’ A similar proportion of voters identify as GLB. If you
            define gay as having same-sex attractions or behaviors, you do get
            higher proportions that are a bit closer to the one in ten figure.” Read
            more of my interview with Gary Gates.

            http://gaylife.about.com/od/comingout/a/population.htm

            Anyway, it’s still and aberrant sick disgusting way of life and the exact statistics for this sickness will never be known. This sick behavior should not be taught in schools or anywhere as normal and acceptable.

            Be well and prosper. .

          • Katrael

            You summarily dismissed someone who replied to you for resorting to semantics. We all need to be careful about what we say….I’m looking in the mirror.

          • Robbie

            I trust it will do some good.

          • Katrael

            It always does good.

          • Robbie

            No, actually I did mean to say PROGRESS.

          • Katrael

            “They be shocked that man has landed on the Moon and on Mars.” This is not precise wording. To be precise it would have to say that man landed and walked on the moon and that man had landed unmanned spacecraft on Mars. However I understood what you meant. On the other hand: “And that gay people are allowed to marry”? I don’t think your word “amazed” would adequately describe the horror our “Founders” would feel about the idea of homosexual marriages being legal and accepted today.

          • Robbie

            Man HAS landed on both the Moon and Mars. It’s true we only walked on the Moon but that does not negate the fact that we landed on both.

            Please don’t fault the Founders for having notions in keeping with their times. We’re talking 2 1/2 plus centuries ago after all. Times change, values change, actually most everything changes. They’d be shocked that folks with skin colour other than white are considered citizens. Not the fault of the Founders. Mind you they were among the most progressive and enlightened thinkers of their day so who know. They were open to new ideas about government and society at that time. They were probably more open minded than many folks of today.

          • Katrael

            I don’t fault the “Founders” for keeping with their time. What I don’t agree with is that they were as progressive as you’re making them out to be here. I doubt that they were as wishy washy as all that! No, they would have been appalled at our times. Those men, the “:Founders”, knew what it would mean to
            loose the struggle they had undertaken and that it would have cost them their life. I doubt, but don’t know for sure, that most liberal/progressive minded people would be willing to take on that kind of struggle with such high stakes.

            Now for something that has bothered me about this subject of free health care for all:

            I’m not against free health care so much as I’m against free health care for an irresponsible public. A vast portion of our population here suffers from lifestyle diseases that could be avoided if they would eat and behave responsibly. Diseases such as: diabetes, fatty liver, kidney stones, many cancers, heart disease, COPD, and a whole host of other diseases not mentioned here. But, here’s the biggest one: Morbid obesity.

            Percent of adults age 20 years and over who are obese: 35.9%
            (2009-2010)

            Percent of adults age 20 years and over who are overweight, including obesity:
            69.2%
            (2009-2010)

            Source: Health, United States, 2012, table 63 [PDF - 9.8 MB]

            Percent of adolescents age 12-19 years who are obese: 18.4%
            (2009-2010)

            Percent of children age 6-11 years who are obese: 18.0% (2009-2010)

            Percent of children age 2-5 years who are obese: 12.1% (2009-2010)

            Source: Prevalence of Obesity in the United States, 2009–2010

            Here’s a link read it for yourself: http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/overwt.htm.

            I’m not for the abomination called Obamacare especially since it provides for abortions and abortifacients and possibly sex change surgery. Who knows what’s provided for in a law that contains 20,000 pages of crap? I shouldn’t have to pay a cent of my income towards tending to people who make no effort to take care of themselves nor am I supportive of any medical system that promotes disease like ours does.

          • Robbie

            The Founders were adherents of French Enlightenment thinking at the time. And for the times in which they lived they certainly were liberal and progressive. They wanted a new government and social system and they wanted to make progress in the relationship between the individual and the state which, frankly, had not been promoted since Fifth century B.C. democracy in Athens. A conservative at the time of the revolution would have sided with the tried and true i.e.) British colonialism and mercantilism.

            As for universal health care I certainly agree with you on self imposed health matters but it’s really hard to draw a line. How fat is fat? should we not treat a person who gets injured while driving drunk? Should we risk the lives of first responders seeking to find a lost mountain climber? What about folks who choose to ride motorcycles? Should they be out of the system because cars are a safer way of getting around? Do we leave out anyone who smoked because they should have known better? These are real questions and real concerns. There are a whole lot of irresponsible lifestyle choices. But can the government realistically step in to force folks to not eat Big Macs or drink soft drinks that contain so many useless calories? Didn’t Mayor Bloomberg try that and he got smacked down for impinging on the rights of the individual?

          • Katrael

            It isn’t my concern whether a person abuses themselves or not and therefore it isn’t my concern when they need help for such abuse. Suffer is what I say. I say that a person has the RIGHT to do ANYTHING their heart desires, I just don’t want them to come to me with their problems. Hmm, can I say it another way a third time? Is this cruel? NO, how will a person learn to not do the incorrect things if they don’t suffer the consequences of their actions?. A person is free to do anything but they are also free to suffer. And, the exact problem is that the central government can’t adequately determine who is rightfully needy and who isn’t and therefore shouldn’t be in the social welfare business. Social Welfare needs to be administered on the local level where the people know each other. Up to this point I’ve been talking about medical things. How about feeding people? There used to be a system where every third year ten percent of the agricultural increase was put aside in each community so that the orphans, poor and widows could eat. Good system, we need to go back to it.

            Be well and prosper.

          • Robbie

            I would suggest that too many Americans have become too greedy and too selfish to go back to a system of voluntary support for the poor or injured or whatever. Also the country is now too large and diverse. We no longer live in small villages where it was possible to know everyone. That is why a nation wide system of universal health care is important. The days of the horse and buggy are also long gone. That may be sad but it is true.

          • Katrael

            Still I shouldn’t have to pay for someone’s foolishness. The sad truth is the heart of the people has waxed cold toward our fellow man because we now feel it’s the government’s responsibility to do our work for us. We’ve not only become hard hearted but we’ve become lazy and disillusioned because of it. It’s pure evil and so is the attitude that we need more of it. This government needs to fail completely and it will given enough time. People mostly learn from their greatest trials. We’re headed for ours.

          • Robbie

            Everything’ll be fine. Relax.

          • Katrael

            I’m not excited

          • Smilee

            More propaganda sites from sammie!!!!

      • Smilee

        recent documentary (2013) of MA and its heath care reform show they do love it, way north of 60% of them do and the predicted bad economy because of it did not materialize except in your mind and those whom think like you do and get their info from propaganda sites. They will say the same thing about Obamacare in five years too, it does not address the costs as good as it could of but when congress gets the message don’t touch my Obamacare like they now get with Medicare Congress will then look at real cost savings and pass laws to do so and then it will become cheaper. Most every country including Canada has proven there is a way

    • TheOriginalDaveH

      Lots of conjecture there, but no evidence. What? Liberal Progressives provide evidence? How dare I ask that.
      http://mises.org/daily/496
      http://mises.org/daily/3586
      “All countries that have adopted socialized healthcare have suffered from the disease of price-control-induced shortages. If a Canadian, for instance, suffers third-degree burns in an automobile crash and is in need of reconstructive plastic surgery, the average waiting time for treatment is more than 19 weeks, or nearly five months. The waiting time for orthopedic surgery is also almost five months; for neurosurgery it’s three full months; and it is even more than a month for heart surgery (see The Fraser Institute publication, Waiting Your Turn: Hospital Waiting Lists in Canada). Think about that one: if your doctor discovers that your arteries are clogged, you must wait in line for more than a month, with death by heart attack an imminent possibility. That’s why so many Canadians travel to the United States for healthcare”.

      • Robbie

        Just a few days after last New Year I began – at 3:00 A.M. – having chest pains that turned out to be an almost totally blocked main artery. Luckily I live in a big city and was brought to hospital which was about 10 minutes away from home. Within about 30 minutes I was in an operating room filled with health care professionals and equipment I didn’t know even existed. After five days in hospital I was home and subsequently have had 4 consultations with my cardiologist, 3 with my regular GP, two stress tests in hospital, two meetings with a pharmacist and two with a nutritionist, and umpteen blood test. More of these follow ups are scheduled. My cost: $zero. Zero. I recon that had this happened to me in the U.S. & A. my cost would have been in the area of $200,000.

        Clearly if you have plies of money in the U.S. you are laughing. A rich dead uncle leaves you an inheritance or you win big in Vegas means you can buy good health. But if you are a hard working stiff at minimum wage you are SOL. President Obama is changing that and history will praise him for that.

        And, by the way, Americans come up here for certain procedures (that they must pay for because they are not tax payers). I personally know three men from outside of Kansas City who have come to Canada;s world famous Schouldice Institute for hernia operations. The Montreal Heart Institute cares for Americans. It partly depends where one lives of course. Folks in border states without advanced facilities look northward if a big city is near by. Toronto’s Hospital for Sick Children is another world class destination and I know a young doctor from Duke University who is currently at Sick Kids – as it is called – to learn advanced methods of infantile facial reconstructive surgery. In two years Canadian knowledge and skills in that area will return to North Carolina.

        As great and as rich as America is it really does seem a pity to Canadians that 30% of health care dollars go directly to insurance companies and that, until recently, some 40 million Americans had no coverage at all and ended up in overly expensive ER situations when some bit of prevention would have cost far less. If you are rich you probably love the American way. Less than that and health issues become a major source of mental anguish.

        But the real proof of the goodness of socialized medicine is Mitt Romney’s old state where he signed universal health care into law and they love it and I note that there has never been a law to revoke it.

        • JeffH

          The Canadian system is built around a compulsory public-insurance regime that provides most medical and hospital services free. Of course, it is not free for the taxpayer, who finances the system at a rate of 22% of all taxes raised in Canada. The Canadian government pays about 71% of total Canadian health care expenditures. This translates into public health expenditures of 7% of GDP in Canada.

          Why are private health expenditures so low in Canada? The main reason is that they are illegal, which gets us to the heart of the system’s hidden costs.

          Canadian public health insurance is not only compulsory, it is also monopolistic. The system is administered by provincial governments under strict guidelines imposed by federal law and federal subsidies. Private insurance covering publicly insured services is illegal. Physicians are forbidden to accept private payments above the fees billed to the government. Hospitals are public or non-profit, and tightly regulated. Physicians’ fees are determined—or “negotiated”—by provincial agencies. Prices of drugs are controlled. In short, the public supply of medical services is rationed, and there is little private alternative. Hence the apparent low cost of the system.

          Canada’s health care system has its problems:
          Negative discussion about health care in Canada tends to focus on a persistent set of problems: access, wait times, and shortages of health care providers. This has been the case in times of good economy and during economic crisis.

          The 10th annual Health Care in Canada survey confirms that wait times and the shortage of doctors top the list of concerns voiced by Canadians in 2008.

          Although some Canadians say they have never waited for medical services, complaints about long waiting times have lead virtually every provincial government to publish data on wait times for specific procedures in their province.

          The shortage of doctors and other health care professionals is the second most problematic issue for Canadians. The lure of more lucrative salaries led to a “brain drain” of professionals to the United States in recent years. Although overall emigration has been relatively small, health care professionals constitute a significant proportion of the public sector workers who have chosen to leave Canada for employment in the United States.

          Canadian nurses have expressed particular dissatisfactions with the health care system in recent years. They have consistently recommended increasing the number of nurses, improvements in education, and maximizing the scope of practice of nurses.

          Health & Fitness
          July 11, 2009
          By: Sheila Guilloton

          • Robbie

            99% correct and we in Canada love it. We fully realize that our taxes are higher than in the U.S. but what a wonderful benefit we get because of it! Imagine NEVER having to worry about what economic horrors would occur if one got seriously sick or injured. Imagine NEVER being told by some private insurance company that “you are not covered” even after paying high premiums for years or decades. Imagine not having to live in a country where tens of millions of your fellow citizens have no coverage for health or end up in the ER after neglecting their health for lack of money. Imagine not being in a society that tells some dope who got lucky in Vegas that he can live a healthy life and some working stiff at minimum wage that he and his family have to take their chances. Those slightly higher taxes are just so worth it!

          • JeffH

            Robbie, Obamacare doesn’t remotely resemble Canada’s health care system other than the fact that it will be administered by the federal government.

            Obamacare has never been about leveling the playing field, reforming and providing affordable health care for everyone…it’s always been about feathering the cronies nest.

            From the very first day It was inevitable that a behemoth law such as ObamaCare, the result of much political wrangling and lobbying, would lead to crony capitalism.

            Obama’s administration claims that there is no cronyism involved in granting waivers from provisions in the Obamacare law and exempted providers of“Medigap” policies. …AARP lobbied heavily and donated millions for it and was the first major organization granted a waiver. AARP just so happens to be the nation’s largest seller of such policies also.

            Over 1,372 waivers have been granted, including several grants to entire states. Approx. 20% of waivers granted went to upscale hotels, restaurants and nightclubs in Nancy Pelosi’s home district. (“We have to pass it to see what’s in it!”)

            Obamacare has allowed “Big Pharma” an unprecedented level of access to draft regulations on itself that would guarantee big profits with the imprimatur of government mandates and enforcement.

            In short, Big Pharma has been repaid for their ~ $150 million pro-Obamacare advertising campaign coordinated with the White House political shop.

            The idea of funneling about $1 trillion (according to the Congressional Budget Office) over Obamacare’s real first dozen years (2014–25) from American taxpayers, through Washington, to private insurance companies was always problematic. But it’s more problematic to hire a subsidiary of one of those insurance companies as an architect and policeman of the exchanges through which the Obama administration intends to have this abundant taxpayer money flow, more problematic still that Obama’s first head of the CCIIO may have profited personally from the venture, and most problematic of all that HHS may have told a private company to violate federal securities law in order to aid Obama’s reelection prospects.

            Krauthammer: “…the one person who called it that train wreck, Obamacare, was not a Republican. He was the Democratic Senator head of the Budget Committee, Max Baucus, who knows of which he speaks. Look, in the end the bill is a massive transfer of wealth from the young to the old. Young people are going to be paying double and triple what [they] would ordinarily be paying in health insurance…”

            When government gets involved in anything, cronyism is unavoidable. People go hat in hand to the government for special treatment, for tax breaks, for regulations of their industry that make it more difficult for the competition, or for direct infusions of taxpayer money.
            _____________________________
            Why Obamacare Sucks & How Corporate Greed, Politicians’ Betrayal, & Most Citizens’ Myopic Cronyism Screwed America

            In July of last year Dr. John Geyman in pnhp (Physicians for a National Health Program) did a concise assessment of the Orwellian-named “Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act of 2010” (PPACA). The healthcare legislation investment will be $1 trillion over the next 10 years, ensuring the health of the health insurance industry far more than average Americans.

            Here are first the profound negatives and then a few positives according to Geyman’s analysis:
            http://www.correntewire.com/why_obamacare_sucks_how_corporate_greed_politicians_betrayal_most_citizens_myopic_cronyism_screwed_a

          • Robbie

            I do agree with you in that Obamacare is far too complicated mainly because it had to involve far too many compromises but that seems to be the way of the world in American politics on just about any bill. Plus a lot of the players simply will complicate and oppose absolutely ANYTHING. I remember well about two years ago when something or other was proposed by a prominent Republican in the Congress. To his surprise the Democrats agreed with it and were prepared to vote positively on it. The reaction from the Republican? “I’m against it”!!!

          • JeffH

            Unfortunately, everything in American politics is about cronyism…that is wrong and immoral.

            Obamacare is the most immoral and cronyized piece of legislation to be forced on American’s in the last 50 years. It is not about health coverage for everybody but it is all about the politicians feathering the nests of their crony parteners,donors and supporters, rewarding them at the expense of the American taxpayers.

            It’s wrong and needs to be repealed. There has always been Medicaid available to those that couldn’t afford health care benefits. Our government has become the most illegal government in our history…usuping the Constitution and violating their oath of office.

            There are five boxes to use in the defense of Liberty: 1.The Soap Box, the Mail Box, the Ballot Box, the Jury Box, and the Ammunition Box.

            2. Turning to arms is the last resort when dealing with a tyrannical government. But it is essential that We the People retain the right to keep and bear arms so that we never have to confront a tyrannical government. As Thomas Jefferson said: “When the people fear the government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.”

          • Robbie

            Whatever happened to the armed march on Washington? Wasn’t that supposed to be happening right about now? Was it cancelled due to lack of interest or plain old fear or was there a ballgame on T.V.?

          • JeffH

            DUH! You tell me!

          • Robbie

            It got cancelled for lack of interest or lack of resolve.

          • JeffH

            Robbie, the two party system in America is a sham, two sides of the same coin so to speak. The majority of both parties are nothing more than immoral “Big Government” mouthpieces.

            It’s just become so obvious that neither party has any credibility anymore…with very few exceptions.

          • Seanoamericano

            If it is so great how come there are all the waivers 3000 to support it passing, now more are being requested, and the unions that were exempt realize that it was temporary. Now the senators are mad and trying to exempt their staffs. Not to mention ovomit and the rest of the scabs that voted for it wont use it? Not one rep voted for this abomination and what exactly is that proposal?

          • Ibn Insha

            You said, “but what a wonderful benefit we get because of it”. The same language used by the Communists. You must be a net taker that is why you love it so much. Ask those who have to pay taxes through nose to keep you healthy.

          • Robbie

            Actually no. I happen to be a small business owner which I think is considered to be capitalistic. Also, my wife And I together own 5 rental buildings with over 45 tenants who pay us rent. Last I heard that’s capitalism. And I/we pay tons of taxes. You don’t have to believe that if you don’t want to. It’s just when it comes to health care spending nationally it makes sense that the system cover everyone and paid from tax revenue.

            What’s going to happen when you have a heart attack or need cancer treatment or get in to ca car crash and need all kinds of medical help? Are you going to be able to afford the 300,000$ or 400,000$ ? Wow, you must be living the sweet life.

          • Smilee

            Ask those in the US who pay very high premiums, very high deductibles and co-pays also many not covered items paid for fully out of pocket on top of taxes that we pay for some of the health care in this country and you will find that you will be paying through a much bigger nose. It costs us a lot more than those in Canada

          • Smilee

            Not the nurses I know up there and were hearing a lot of nurses here expressing dissatisfaction with health care here, especially not enough staffing and patients not getting adequate attention and slow attention and I have had patients tell me that is true. I have not been the hospital since 1975. The difference being it costs us a lot more. You mention the high tax rates but you ignore that in the US you have to pay very high premiums, co-pays, and very high deductibles. Add that to your taxes and it is a lot expensive here. You need to look at the whole picture not just at what you want to see and believe.

        • Ibn Insha

          The proponents of social medicine are people devoid of morality. You believe that taking money form some and giving to others in the form of free medicine or any other form is good. It is confiscation of money without free will of people. It is theft and you are proud of theft. Only a morally bankrupt can have that principle.

          I have many relatives living in Canada and they tell me horror stories of your medical system. Ours is not perfect but yours sucks.

          • http://cowboybyte.com/ Alondra

            Your appeal to the “moral bankrupt” as is Robbie (Kommunistic parasite) is a waste of your time. The Kommunists/ DEMONcrats are calling THEFT the “redistribution of wealth”.

            And you should to know that Parasites/Freeloaders have no conscience.

            “Obama’s Parasites” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prRNBLIZ1bk
            “Obama’s Pig” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsNNt8GZ2YA
            “Greedy Libs” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MemADZ2Tlnc
            “Wild Bill’s Tax Plan” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4pJu8BnYlU
            Obama Bucks http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5tqH7UrzOw
            People In Line For Obama Money

            Tens of thousands line up for housing assistance in Detroit http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfGLB8LO1aM
            Obama gives a free Phone

            But as you know there is NOTHING free. Someone has to pay for. It’s you and me.
            I hope you had a good weekend.

          • Robbie

            Actually the moral position is to be willing to come to the aid of anyone in need.

            In Canada we do not view medical care as a for profit type of thing. We view hospitals and doctors and other health care workers in the same way as we view firefighters and other first responders. We feel that society as a whole must fund these activities and that all citizens should have access when the need arises. Do you agree with the concept of publically funded fire departments?Or do you think firefighting should be handled by private companies and only their clients should get protection? Think about that.

            You may not know this but originally fire fighting WAS a private operation but that was dropped for the far more sensible system we have now.

          • smilee

            I have many up there two and two relatives working in health care up there and they would call you a liar. Three of my relatives up there were born and raised in the US so they have known both and they much prefer the system in Canada. Your just spreading lies and the studies done on about 180 countries do not` tell that story either and they rate Canada higher in ovrerall outcomes than the US.

        • http://cowboybyte.com/ Alondra

          Q: Why U.S. HealthCare costs MORE than Canadan?

          A. Because a Mercedes is more expensive than a Corolla”

          • Robbie

            Overall Canadian health care is every bit as good as American. I’d say we’re in the Volvo slot. You may be driving a Mercedes down there but you may have forgotten that 40 million of you fellow citizens are on a rickety old bus.

      • Smilee

        No evidence??????? Better health care in over 30 countries at about 1/2 the price on total heaalth care expenditures. These things are monitored on an ongoing basis but you only look to propaganda sites for your info. The results are widely accepted as factual and talking with numerous people in some of these countries whom I know very well personally and they tell me your full of BS and spreading spreading it. Many uninsured travel to Canada because its a lot cheaper when your paying out of pocket. I have one relative in Canada who has a cochlear transplant at no additional cost to him. In Canada the price is $26,000.00 and in the US medicare and insurance companies do not cover it and in the US the cost is $30,000.00 all out of your own pocket. He can now hear again with no additional cost to him and here it would cost you $30,000.00 if you want to hear again.

    • Seanoamericano

      Right and as a resident of Montana I have seen and heard from many people who came down to get medical care and avoid the wait and poor excuse of health care in the Great White North. You people lie and say anything to candy coat the reality of the failures of socialism. For some reason it starts out as this wonderfull idea that everything is free and better for the little guy but they must give up rights and guns to get this freebie, Then once it is revealed for the monster it is too late. It is upheld with force and threats, and only lasts as long as there is other peoples money to spend. Socialism is a proven failure and always lowers the standard of living for those it promises most. Socialism sucks and so do the people pushing it. Funny how it requires a collapse of the current system to a point where people will accept any thing, Because otherwise they would never even consider such a horrible answer to their problems.

      • Robbie

        Canada has one of the highest standards of living in the world if not THE highest.

  • http://cowboybyte.com/ Alondra

    On the subject:
    Dave Boye, a White House correspondent for The Washington Times. said “This was definitely the worst ‘hot mic’ incident I’ve ever heard. I’ve heard a lot of politicians say candid things when they’ve thought no one was listening, but this takes the cake. (Obama’s) comments were very insulting and shocking.”

    How do you think, Jay, Would the White House correspondent for The Washington Times fantasize or invent something that the ‘pres’ did not say?

    The far LEFT is PRAISING the Kenyan Fraud for his comments, which further shows WHO they really are and their true agenda:

    “Now this is the Obama we should really be hearing each Independence Day, not a president feeding us all the usual ‘USA-rah-rah-rah’ b.s.!” said a gleaming David Cornhole of the far-Left Mother Jones magazine after Obama’s speech and accompanying overheard complaints. “Every year we have to hear about how great our country is and what a blessing that it was founded, and what a great bunch of guys the Founding Fathers were, instead of the racist, sexist, homophobic religious zealots they really were and what a dismal, hypocritical cesspool of exploitative capitalism this country of toothless imbeciles really is.”

    Surprisingly, Cornhole said he actually received an e-mail directly from the President shortly after praising Obama’s candor and egging him on MORE for next year. According to Cornhole, Obama’s e-mail read: “Don’t worry, I’m on it!”
    http://www.redstate.com/jollygiantsd/2013/07/05/non-existance-of-obamas-transparency/

    P.S. This is the same Mother Jones’ Cornhole, who wrote “I mean, sure, America has saved the world from tyranny and Fascist annihilation on a few occasions, and gives money once and a while to save poor brown kids around the world. But can all of that humanitarian crap outweigh our sins —denial of gay rights alone?”

    “Great is TRUTH, and mighty above all things.” 2Ezdra 4:41

  • rbrooks
    • TheOriginalDaveH

      For those who want something other than Propaganda:
      http://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/bp101.pdf

      The question to always ask yourself, Folks, is — “If Socialism is so wonderful, then why must I be Forced to do it somebody else’s way?”. What is keeping these people from setting up an equivalent insurance system which is fully paid by the participants (no unwilling taxpayer money)? They know it would fail is what. They need that Force. They need the ambiguity that is inherent in Government-funded taxpayer-deep-pocket schemes.
      Socialism is Leaders and their Cronies Forcing other people to do things their way. How many people do you know who look out for other people with no selfish interests involved?
      Here is some more reality about Leaders:
      http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/05/beware-the-psychopath-my-son/

      Where do rbrooks and Robbie fit in this scheme? You decide.

      • rbrooks

        you prefer your own biased propaganda. lol.

        it is interesting that you use socialized insurance to make your point. which simply makes the point that socialized insurance would and does work better. great job.

        you did a nice job of showing how we have always been a socialist country.
        you have described every leader, their cronies and their supporters. regardless.

        what you advocate is true anarchy.

        i am not against that.

        • TheOriginalDaveH

          What are you, rbrooks, 12 years old? My 13 year-old grandson makes more cogent arguments.
          I used Socialized Insurance to make my point?
          While you may have a reading impediment, rbrooks, the other readers don’t. I don’t expect you to learn anything, rbrooks, and my comments generally are addressed to the other Folks who aren’t afraid to do some thinking.

          • rbrooks

            yes davy, you use socialized insurance to make your point.

            you have a comprehension problem. many of the readers on this site share that. but not all of them.

            if you had really thought about your post, you would not have made it.

            but that would require you to understand how ‘private’ insurance is funded.

            since you claim the current funding of insurance works well, then eliminating the profits generated by private insurance, would simply make it cheaper. more efficient.

            i would agree that you play to your audience.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            rbrooks says — “yes davy, you use socialized insurance to make your point”.
            Because you, an obviously poor reader, says so, rbrooks?
            “davy”? Please, better trolls than yourself have tried to condescend me. You’ll have to save your manipulation for weak-minded people — like your Progressive cohorts.

          • rbrooks

            well, i would have used moron, but i have met morons that are brighter than you.

            you obviously are unaware of how insurance is funded. you are also unaware of the meaning of the term socialism.

            private insurance is socialism.

            all of your whining will not change that.

            why would anyone would find a need to be condescending to you.

            you do the best job of showing your ignorance. and a poor job of concealing your real goals.

            you are not a good troll or a libertarian.

            you flatter your self.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Time for a diaper change, rbrooks.

          • rbrooks

            get sammy to change your diaper

          • smilee

            Very good job for sammie!!!

          • rbrooks

            a job he is qualified for.

  • Richard

    Your taxes are going up to pay for homosexuals and lesbians that will
    now be able to claim each other as dependents so they’ll have to get the
    lost revenue from someone else. Guess who? Also now because of the
    immoral progressive democrats abortions are now a womans health issue
    not killing the unborn

  • Richard

    Q. Does Obamacare cover people with pre-existing conditions?

    A. Yes,Yes it does but by the time it is fully implemented they won’t be
    able to afford it and they will be right back where they started from
    except now they will have to pay a tax/fine for not having health
    insurance, but we will have 16,500 new IRS workers and thousands of more
    social workers from the former ACORN now known as Community
    Organizations International. Isn’t it odd how they knew the number of
    IRS people to be hired to enforce the law? Sounds like they had a head
    count for constituents to get $30-$45k jobs with full benefits funded by
    the taxpayers that are heading into more poverty..

  • Albert Maslar

    Obama exempting Big Business, Unions, and many private organizations from ObamaCare is UNCONSTITUTIONAL because the Supreme Court SAID ObamaCare was constitutional because it was a tax. If taxes are applied unequally and many organizations are arbitrarily exempted from the tax by Tax-Commander-In-Chief, it falls apart at the seams, if there are any.

    • smilee

      They are not exempt just delayed one year

      • Albert Maslar

        That makes the case. The President is not authorized to pick and choose if and when he will enforce legislation that he has signed himself. Congress alone has that power to change legislation..

  • me

    The one regulation in that is scary is the one where older people on medicare will not be paid for if they are reoeat patients to doctors and hospitals. the regulations with owebunhole care will determine their worth. what if someone is in bad shape. are they doomed to die if its not paid for. there is a lot of people who are on medicare with no supplement insurance. this would be almost as bad as the doctor who was putting people out of ther misery a few years ago. I think what he got was murder charges. If older people cannot get care with owebunhole care, maybe the writers and creators of owebunhole care should have murder charges put up on them. There would be a lot of people who would die becaus they would not meet the requirement of their worth. Of no value to society. Work all of your life and to die needlessly because you are no longer a benefit to society. The new american way under oowebunhole care

    • Smilee

      Someone has been filling you full of $$hit

      • KBright

        Actually I have read Obamacare 3 times, and “me” is NOT ” full of $$hit”.

        Have you even taken a glance at it, let alone read it? You are the one who is showing your ignorance, read it BEFORE commenting please. That way you might have something worthwhile to say.

      • Justsomeguy151

        That would be Obumma, Pelosi and the rest of the hopelessly corrupt Libt@-rds.

    • Bill

      Obamacare is all about money and power and has nothing to do with helping anyone. It has taken a flawed system of drugs for symptoms and made it more flawed.
      You have to take care of your own health through educating yourself to preventative therapies and lifestyles. You cannot depend on our healthcare system to heal you

  • hungry4food

    heres who will be enforcing the law …..

    Is this why DHS Secretary
    Janet Napolitano resigned from her Post ?????

    http://www.rightsidenews.com/2013070132807/editorial/rsn-pick-of-the-day/its-not-an-invasion-if-we-think-they-belong-here.html

    They are Looking for
    any reason to Join forces even this , http://en.rian.ru/russia/20130626/181883790.html

  • hungry4food
  • ONTIME

    Let’s understand this, it is in reality, not lib talk, UNaffordable Insurance, and you will get a lot less for more, in fact it could consume your entire income. It was concieved in a closed door partisan session of the congress, was not examined, was not read, it was passed so we could find out what was in it, a highly suspect unconstitutional act. This sham was sold by a nutcase who has no BC and no credentials we can look at, he worked from a medicine wagon to sell this nasty tasting snake oil and he can use his split tongue to lick both ears at once. That is not just red flags this is called corruption….

  • msueh

    I REALLY like Bill Thomas’ reply to Alice McGee above!! :-D