Even If Hell Freezes Over, The Obama Greens Will Wage Their War

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“(I) suggest that the death penalty is an appropriate punishment for influential GW (global warming) deniers.” — Richard Parncutt, professor at the University of Graz, Austria, 2012

Some environmentalists would like to kill people like you and me. That is because we question whether the planet is getting warmer. Consider Professor Richard Parncutt. While he is opposed to the death penalty, he believes no punishment is too harsh for those that reject global warming. The good news is that Parncutt teaches music for a living, so we probably don’t have to tuck a pistol beneath our pillow at night.

That is not to say that Parncutt and global warming ideologues are not dangerous. This is especially the case when their theories are trumped by facts. So it is after a recent scientific report that shows the Arctic ice cap grew by almost 1 million square miles last year. That is an area one-third larger than Alaska and a 60 percent increase in just a year.

It turns out that global temperatures have not been getting warmer since 1997. The British newspaper The Mail On Sunday reported in March that there is a “90 per cent certainty” that the predictions made for global warming will not happen.

Imagine the conundrum the Greens face. Soon, there may be no videos of polar bear cubs drowning as they swim beside their mothers to ice packs too far into the distance. Soon, there may be no impending warnings of how the Artic is about to disappear. Soon, there may no longer be any urgency in giving money and power to a stupid idea whose time has passed.

Just six years ago, the BBC broadcast projections that global warming would turn Artic ice into seawater by no later than this summer. Instead, the Northwest Passage, from the Atlantic to the Pacific, has had one of the thickest ice packs in decades. It has become so cold that more than 20 yachts of the ultra-wealthy, some of whom probably give money to Greenpeace, are ice-bound. Call it karma or call it an inconvenient truth; the world is not heating up. That is dire news for the people behind a boondoggle that has nothing to do with saving the planet and everything to do with achieving wealth and power.

You don’t have to take my word for it. Consider this graph below that shows the trend of falling temperatures:

johnchart0917

“This summer, the U.S. has experienced the fewest number of 100 degree readings in a century,” wrote Steven Goddard for Real Science. The five hottest summers were 1930, 1934, 1936, 1954 and 1980.

Temperatures were hotter back when my grandfather was homesteading with horses rather than a truck and tractor. Temperatures were hotter when the Chinese traveled paths by rickshaw and traversed water on junks. Temperatures were hotter when the number of cars on the road could be measured in the thousands rather than in the hundreds of millions.

Yet every time I write about climate change I get comments that call me either an idiot or a member of the Flat Earth Society. So, please, for the environmentalists reading, let me ask two questions:

  1. As America struggles with its economic recovery, what are the President’s plans to force other nations to reduce their massive carbon output? Together, China, India and Russia emit almost twice as much carbon as the United States. Canada, with all the “dirty oil sands,” emits less than 10 percent as much carbon as the United States.
  2. If Barack Obama is committed to the electric car, has he considered how America is going to power millions of them? Electricity isn’t created out of thin air, and it is inefficient in delivering energy to an end-source. Has Obama even considered how much coal and oil are going to be burned so that Americans can charge their automobiles every night?

These are real questions I have yet to hear any answers on from the President or his environmental loyalists. Regardless of such questions, American Greens won’t budge an inch. Any evidence contrary to their beliefs only brings angry name calling. No wonder the massive increase in the size of Artic ice caps and cooling global temperatures has driven some into a heated tizzy.

Better Green Than Guillotined

Some environmentalists are claiming that the civil war in Syria may be the result of global warming. Last week, National Review Online wrote this headline: “Global Warming, the Real Cause of the Syrian Civil War?”

Francesco Femia has identified in a new culprit in the Syrian civil war: climate change. … Femia, co-founder of the Center for Climate and Security, argues that climate change created a “powder keg” in the country, creating the conditions that made the civil war more likely.

According to Femia, climate change had caused a massive drought in Syria that, coupled with the Assad regime’s resource mismanagement, created a “large-scale environmental and human disaster.” He believes the crisis led to massive migration into urban areas, which were already hard-pressed economically, sparking large-scale civil unrest. This unrest eventually became a civil war.

Femia argues that the country is embroiled in a bloody civil war because it has been dry and dusty in Syria. (Who would have thought?) Does that sound crazy? It’s no crazier than Obama and the Robespierre-like environmentalists that support his environmental policies.

A contributor to The Washington Times Communities, in a post entitled “Obama Doctrine: He could even attack nations over climate change,” suggested that Obama might attack those he deems responsible for global warming, including Syria.

Secretary of State John Kerry is goose-stepping beside the President on the climate change mandate. In May, Kerry said there will be hell to pay if global warming is not stopped:

[A]n issue like environment/global climate change just leaps out at me as a profoundly important issue for future generations. If they’re breathing bad air, if there isn’t enough water, if the water’s bad, disease, all of these things become major threats, not to mention the fact that if we don’t respond adequately to the challenge of global climate change over the course of these next years, there will be people fighting wars over water and over land and agricultural land and other kinds of things.

Kerry is echoing what former Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta said in 2012, when he declared that environmental threats are threats to America’s national security.

It is the prosecution of a war and the persecution of people that don’t accept global warming. An active (and I believe insane) writer for Grist, David Roberts, went on record in 2006 saying that people — like us, I suppose — who deny global warming should be tried and presumably hung the way senior members of the Nazi Party were in 1946.

“When we’ve finally gotten serious about global warming, when the impacts are really hitting us and we’re in a full worldwide scramble to minimize the damage, we should have war crimes trials for these bastards — some sort of climate Nuremberg,” Roberts wrote.

If he wants to put us on trial for killing the planet, I want a lawyer who will ask: “Where are the bodies?”  As far as I can see, the only bodies are in the Mideast; and they are stacked high because of Obama’s foreign intervention in the region. It is ironic that the real reason people are fighting and dying in places like Syria, Egypt and Libya is because they have oil or they are at the gateway to greater Arabia, which has oil.

There is another irony. High crimes and killing seem to fall on the shoulders of Obama, the best friend the Greens ever had in the Oval Office. With regard to Obama and his National Security Agency, we very well may want pistols beneath our pillows at night.

Yours in good times and bad,

–John Myers

Personal Liberty

John Myers

is editor of Myers’ Energy and Gold Report. The son of C.V. Myers, the original publisher of Oilweek Magazine, John has worked with two of the world’s largest investment publishers, Phillips and Agora. He was the original editor for Outstanding Investments and has more than 20 years experience as an investment writer. John is a graduate of the University of Calgary. He has worked for Prudential Securities in Spokane, Wash., as a registered investment advisor. His office location in Calgary, Alberta, is just minutes away from the headquarters of some of the biggest players in today’s energy markets. This gives him personal access to everyone from oil CEOs to roughnecks, where he learns secrets from oil insiders he passes on to his subscribers. Plus, during his years in Spokane he cultivated a network of relationships with mining insiders in Idaho, Oregon and Washington.

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  • KG

    Global warming has flaws in its application. So does Capitalism.

    Many (right wing conservative Nazis) are ready to dispense with millions of dollars and umpteen hours of research on the subject to justify their own inadequacies when it comes to Capitalism’s failure to preserve the environment it is practiced in.

    In spite of the many failures of capitalism, Reich-wing Nazis still want to keep propping -up it’s stinking corpse. Why should failure stop anyone in their ‘religious’ beliefs? It never stopped the Catholic Churches blood-lust for Jerusalem? It has failed to stop greedy Hedge fund managers from manipulating mortgage investments to rape the American people of its Wealth?

    It is a classic “faire plus” of Machiavellian political knowledge. While the end may justify the means, our modern day Remirro may just be the very people who are opposed to any environmental concern. What reasonable Man today can not look around and realize that despite what you may be fighting about, concern for our environment is paramount to any ‘…Devil in the details…’ sort of conflict. Less use of the limited and toxic resource known as Oil would still be a good thing for our future generations who have to live in the filth we have created for them.

    • justJames

      As usual, when the facts fail to bear out your position, progressives start hurling names and accusations. Regardless of their own findings, scientific data, and now the United Nation’s Intergovernmental Council on Climate Change, the lemmings stay to their course. The sky is falling and it’s the fault of conservative capitalists. What has always failed historically is the socialist/fascist agendas. Grow the F@%#K up!

      • liz

        They have to resort to name calling, the last elections proved that. They think if you repeat a lie often enough people will start believing it and the sheep do!

      • Karolyn

        But it’s OK when everybody else does it, right?

    • vicki

      We are discussing the lie that is man caused global warming.

      Please say on topic.

      • David Stovall

        He did start the tangent with “global warming”. Which brings us to the subject of acne.

      • oldguy

        He can’t and won’t do that. He can’t stand the fact that free market capitalism is what made this country great in the first place and has allowed him access to the highest standard of living in the world. I would gladly invite him to go live in France or some other socialist country. Hell, I’ll even buy the one way ticket just to not be exposed to his pseudo intellectual babble. He’s a legend in his own mind. Just ask him.

      • chocopot

        Actually, Vicki, that’s two lies. The earth is not warming – in point of fact, it is cooling, and mankind has nothing to do with it in any case.

    • WTS/JAY

      Non sequitur.

    • FreedomFighter

      ·
      Global warming has flaws in its application. So does Communism.

      Many (envriomental-Nazis) are ready to dispense with millions of dollars and umpteen hours of research on the subject to justify their own inadequacies when it comes to complete failure to preserve the its false paradigm it is practiced in.

      In spite of the many failures of Communism, Reich-wing Progressive Liberals still want to keep propping -up it’s stinking corpse. Why should failure stop anyone in their ‘Progressive Liberals beliefs? It never stopped the Islamo-Nazi blood-lust for Jerusalem? It has failed to stop greedy democrat progressive congressman and women from manipulating the public to rape the American people of its Wealth?

      It is a classic communist “faire plus” of Machiavellian political manipulation. While the end may justify the means for communists, our modern day constitutionalists may just be the very people who are opposed to any extreme environmental actions. What reasonable Man today cannot look around and realize that despite what you may be fighting about, the false data, lack of hard evidence and continued scandal surrounding manmade global warming findings are self evident. More drilling and use of the efficient and inexpensive resources known as coal, Oil and gas would still be a good thing for our future generations who have to live in the energy demanding technological world we have created for them.

      Now its right.
      Laus DeoSemper FI

      • KG

        “Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery”

        Charles Caleb Colton

        • FreedomFighter

          3rd year College level formula writing is just easy to manipulate.
          Laus Deo
          Semper FI

          • KG

            Gee, I never got past the eighth grade! Thank you!

          • FreedomFighter

            If so, I suggest you realize the constructive pattern suggest source material constructed with neuro-linguistic mind control components designed to construct thought patterns conducive to creation of synaptic linking. This type of pattern creation, synaptic linking, form of mind control rarely works on minds fully developed and is best used on young subjects with little experience, whom have not actually developed the ability to discern right from wrong and god from evil.
            In old time terms its propaganda [expletive deleted]
            Laus Deo
            Semper FI

          • KG

            Oh so THAT explains your posts! Thanks , dude!

          • FreedomFighter

            8th grade explains allot about you too.
            Laus Deo
            Semper FI

    • hungry4food

      The problem with all of what you are describing is that Ideologues have taken over and are ruling those who are elected to enforce the rules of all these topics that are holding the majority of society back from being able to find and create prosperity in every corner of the world .

      And this is due much in part to the Idea that Earth has PEAKED in its Human carrying capacity , and this idea is agreed upon between the richest in world societies .

      These are the same People who Preach about the need for Population Control and are leading Environmental efforts that Stop the majority of society from excelling because that action in their minds is Killing the EARTH !!!

      Google some of these names with Population Control and see what you get . http://money.msn.com/investing/10-wealthiest-americans-of-2013-1

      • KG

        Hitler? Torqemada? W Bush? Gen, Tommy Franks?

        Or the secret killers of our society – non union contractors?
        Chemical/petroleum processing centers? Unregulated raw milk producers?

        • hungry4food

          http://green-agenda.com/

          “The common enemy of humanity is man.
          In searching for a new enemy to unite us, we came up
          with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming,
          water shortages, famine and the like would fit the bill. All these
          dangers are caused by human intervention, and it is only through
          changed attitudes and behavior that they can be overcome.
          The real enemy then, is humanity itself.”
          – Club of Rome,
          premier environmental think-tank,
          consultants to the United Nations

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          “We need to get some broad based support,
          to capture the public’s imagination…
          So we have to offer up scary scenarios,
          make simplified, dramatic statements
          and make little mention of any doubts…
          Each of us has to decide what the right balance
          is between being effective and being honest.”
          – Prof. Stephen Schneider,
          Stanford Professor of Climatology,
          lead author of many IPCC reports

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          “We’ve got to ride this global warming issue.
          Even if the theory of global warming is wrong,
          we will be doing the right thing in terms of
          economic and environmental policy.”
          – Timothy Wirth,
          President of the UN Foundation

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          “No matter if the science of global warming is all phony…
          climate change provides the greatest opportunity to
          bring about justice and equality in the world.”
          – Christine Stewart,
          former Canadian Minister of the Environment

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          “The data doesn’t matter. We’re not basing our recommendations
          on the data. We’re basing them on the climate models.”
          – Prof. Chris Folland,
          Hadley Centre for Climate Prediction and Research

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          “The models are convenient fictions
          that provide something very useful.”
          – Dr David Frame,
          climate modeler, Oxford University

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          “I believe it is appropriate to have an ‘over-representation’ of the facts
          on how dangerous it is, as a predicate for opening up the audience.”
          – Al Gore,
          Climate Change activist

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          “It doesn’t matter what is true,
          it only matters what people believe is true.”
          – Paul Watson,
          co-founder of Greenpeace

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          “The only way to get our society to truly change is to
          frighten people with the possibility of a catastrophe.”
          – emeritus professor Daniel Botkin

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          “The climate crisis is not a political issue, it is a moral and
          spiritual challenge to all of humanity. It is also our greatest
          opportunity to lift Global Consciousness to a higher level.”
          – Al Gore,
          Nobel Peace Prize acceptance speech

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          “We are on the verge of a global transformation.
          All we need is the right major crisis…”
          – David Rockefeller,
          Club of Rome executive member

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          “Humanity is sitting on a time bomb. If the vast majority of the
          world’s scientists are right, we have just ten years to avert a
          major catastrophe that could send our entire planet’s climate system
          into a tail-spin of epic destruction involving extreme weather, floods,
          droughts, epidemics and killer heat waves beyond anything we have
          ever experienced – a catastrophe of our own making.”
          – Al Gore,
          An Inconvenient Truth

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          “We are getting close to catastrophic tipping points,
          despite the fact that most people barely notice the warming yet.”
          – Dr James Hansen,
          NASA researcher

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          “By the end of this century climate change will reduce the human
          population to a few breeding pairs surviving near the Arctic.”
          – Sir James Lovelock,
          Revenge of Gaia

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          “Climate Change will result in a catastrophic global sea level
          rise of seven meters. That’s bye-bye most of Bangladesh,
          Netherlands, Florida and would make London the new Atlantis.”
          – Greenpeace International

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          “This planet is on course for a catastrophe.
          The existence of Life itself is at stake.”
          – Dr Tim Flannery,
          Principal Research Scientist

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          “Coal makes us sick. Oil makes us sick. It’s global warming.
          It’s ruining our country. It’s ruining our world.”
          – Harry Reid,
          U.S. Senate majority leader

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          “Climate Change is the greatest threat that
          human civilization has ever faced.”
          – Angela Merkel,
          German Chancellor

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          “Climate change is real. Not only is it real, it’s here,
          and its effects are giving rise to a frighteningly new
          global phenomenon: the man-made natural disaster.”
          – Barack Obama,
          US President

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          “We simply must do everything we can in our power to
          slow down global warming before it is too late.”
          – Arnold Schwarzenegger,
          Governor of California

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          “Climate change should be seen as the
          greatest challenge to ever face mankind.”
          – Prince Charles

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          “Climate change makes us all global citizens,
          we are truly all in this together.”
          – Gordon Brown,
          British Prime Minister

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          “We have reached the critical moment of decision on climate change.
          Failure to act to now would be deeply and unforgivably irresponsible.
          We urgently require a global environmental revolution.”
          – Tony Blair,
          former British PM

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          “We are close to a time when all of humankind
          will envision a global agenda that encompasses
          a kind of Global Marshall Plan to address the
          causes of poverty and suffering and
          environmental destruction all over the earth.”
          – Al Gore,
          Earth in the Balance

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          “In Nature organic growth proceeds according
          to a Master Plan, a Blueprint. Such a ‘master plan’ is
          missing from the process of growth and development of
          the world system. Now is the time to draw up a master plan for
          sustainable growth and world development based on global
          allocation of all resources and a new global economic system.
          Ten or twenty years form today it will probably be too late.”
          – Club of Rome,
          Mankind at the Turning Point

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          “We need a new paradigm of development in
          which the environment will be a priority.
          World civilization as we know it will soon end.
          We have very little time and we must act.
          If we can address the environmental problem,
          it will have to be done within a new system, a
          new paradigm. We have to change our mindset,
          the way humankind views the world.”
          – Mikhail Gorbachev,
          founder of Green Cross International

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          “The concept of national sovereignty has been immutable,
          indeed a sacred principle of international relations.
          It is a principle which will yield only slowly and reluctantly to
          the new imperatives of global environmental cooperation.”
          – UN Commission on Global Governance report

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          “Democracy is not a panacea. It cannot organize everything and
          it is unaware of its own limits. These facts must be faced squarely.
          Sacrilegious though this may sound, democracy is no longer well
          suited for the tasks ahead. The complexity and the technical nature
          of many of today’s problems do not always allow elected
          representatives to make competent decisions at the right time.”
          – Club of Rome,
          The First Global Revolution

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          “The emerging ‘environmentalization’ of our civilization
          and the need for vigorous action in the interest of the entire global
          community will inevitably have multiple political consequences.
          Perhaps the most important of them will be a gradual change
          in the status of the United Nations. Inevitably, it must
          assume some aspects of a world government.”
          – Mikhail Gorbachev,
          State of the World Forum

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          “I envisage the prinicles of the Earth Charter to
          be a new form of the ten commandments.
          They lay the foundation for a sustainable
          global earth community.”
          – Mikhail Gorbachev,
          co-author of The Earth Charter

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          “In my view, after fifty years of service in the United Nations system,
          I perceive the utmost urgency and absolute necessity for proper
          Earth government. There is no shadow of a doubt that the present
          political and economic systems are no longer appropriate
          and will lead to the end of life evolution on this planet.
          We must therefore absolutely and urgently look for new ways.”
          – Dr Robert Muller,
          UN Assistant Secretary General,

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          “Nations are in effect ceding portions of their sovereignty
          to the international community and beginning to create a
          new system of international environmental governance
          as a means of solving otherwise unmanageable crises.”
          – Lester Brown,
          WorldWatch Institute

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          “Regionalism must precede globalism.
          We foresee a seamless system of governance from
          local communities, individual states, regional unions
          and up through to the United Nations itself.”
          – UN Commission on Global Governance

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          “A keen and anxious awareness is evolving to suggest that
          fundamental changes will have to take place in the world order
          and its power structures, in the distribution of wealth and income.
          Perhaps only a new and enlightened humanism
          can permit mankind to negotiate this transition.”
          – Club of Rome,
          Mankind at the Turning Point

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          “The alternative to the existing world order can only
          emerge as a result of a new human dimension of progress.
          We envision a revolution of the mind, a new way of thinking.”
          – Mikhail Gorbachev,
          State of the World Forum

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          “We require a central organizing principle – one agreed to voluntarily.
          Minor shifts in policy, moderate improvement in laws and regulations,
          rhetoric offered in lieu of genuine change – these are all forms of
          appeasement, designed to satisfy the public’s desire to believe that
          sacrifice, struggle and a wrenching transformation
          of society will not be necessary.”
          – Al Gore,
          Earth in the Balance

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          “Adopting a central organizing principle…
          means embarking on an all-out effort to use every
          policy and program, every law and institution…
          to halt the destruction of the environment.”
          – Al Gore,
          Earth in the Balance

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

          “Effective execution of Agenda 21 will require a profound
          reorientation of all human society, unlike anything the world
          has ever experienced a major shift in the priorities of both
          governments and individuals and an unprecedented
          redeployment of human and financial resources. This shift
          will demand that a concern for the environmental consequences
          of every human action be integrated into individual and
          collective decision-making at every level.”
          – UN Agenda 21

          • KG
          • hungry4food

            KG …..So its better to just have a Economic Policy that gives 110 million people taxpayer cash in multiple forms of benefits that is taking from the producers who are shrinking in terms of supply expansion keeping up with demand instead of creating a prosperous economy that creates self reliance through producing and expanding supply that stabilizes cost of living ???

          • KG

            No. It would be better if workers were allowed to organize into local Unions and negotiate better wages and benefits. Why just give people assistance? Let them work for it – but at a wage that is commensurate to the local economy : meaning, prevailing wage. If that were to happen, we would see our economy rise again. As long as the people with the money just hold on to it instead of investing it, we will suffer economic depression.

          • hungry4food

            KG The Environmentalists will not stand for Incomes rising . They rather want the Feds regulating and metering out the Income stream to control the rate of consumption in line with a 2 % GDP . And this is what we have !!!!

          • hungry4food

            KG with all these things peaking away at our rights we can’t ” TRUST ” that economic freedom won’t be effected too .

            A Shocking display of U.N. Environmental fascism

            http://www.westernjournalism.com/shocking-display-u-n-environmental-fascism/

            46 Of 99 U.S. Senators Vote To Give Constitutional
            Rights To UN

            http://www.westernjournalism.com/46-99-u-s-senators-vote-give-constitutional-rights-un/

            Feinstein: First
            Amendment is a Special Privilege, Not a Right!

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zjZo-U21mU&feature=player_embedded

  • Harold Olsen

    I read something last week that the greenie morons were going back to talking about global cooling, something they denied ever talking about once they started calling it global warming. I wonder if they will again start predicting the end of the world (“We have only about 10 or 20 years left.”) because we are going into another ice age. That was their deal back in the 70’s, which they later denied ever saying. Then, like today, we were having unusually cold weather all over the country. Then when unusually warm weather began, they changed their tune. I guess they realized that anyone with any intelligence was not buying their claim that the colder weather was caused by global warming. That’s like saying, if you want to make ice, heat up water on your stove or in your microwave.

    • ANONYMOUS

      When I was in high school (’74-’78), all they could talk about was the next coming ICE AGE. NO LIE
      What most people don’t know is that the earth has had 4 ice ages in it’s long history and in between them, IT GOT WARMER. EBB AND FLOW, EBB AND FLOW. DEAL WITH IT…OR NOT

  • cruciverbalist

    Every human has flaws whether in thought, in word, or in deed. We should agree to disagree if that be the case without demeaning or denigrating one another. Let us deal with the issues not attack the messenger when we disagree with the message.

    • peter

      Not sure who you are attacking, but it sure is someone. Maybe the messenger?

      • Nadzieja Batki

        peter, when you get that “let us all be nice to each other” language it comes from a Dem/Prog/Leftist and a New Ager all wrapped up into one.

        • Karolyn

          I have never had a conversation with anyone with opposite views who ever used the kind of language I’ve come to expect on this site. Obviously, many are not capable of civil discourse, Nadzieja. However, I really do not believe that posters use the same kind of language when having a face-to-face discussion. Do you? Maybe you do. If that is the case, I’m glad I’ve never met anyone like you.

    • Fred Mueller

      Spoken like a true, blind, deaf and dumb liberal. And I’m not demeaning or denigrating you. You obviously are more than capable of doing that to yourself!

    • Nadzieja Batki

      Such a load of verbal crap. You didn’t have enough sense to keep your fingers off the send button. You are dirty so you want everyone else to be dirty so you won’t stick out. Aren’t you the noble communitarian.

  • David Stovall

    Global warming is a religion, and the orthodox are not able to give it up.

  • WTS/JAY

    Global Warming as Religion and not Science…

    Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction. -Blaise Pascal

    It was Michael Crichton who first prominently identified environmentalism as a religion. That was in a speech in 2003, but the world has moved on apace since then and adherents of the creed now have a firm grip on the world at large.

    Global Warming has become the core belief in a new eco-theology. The term is used as shorthand for anthropogenic (or man made) global warming. It is closely related to other modern belief systems, such as political correctness, chemophobia and various other forms of scaremongering, but it represents the vanguard in the assault on scientific man.

    The activists now prefer to call it “climate change”. This gives them two advantages:

    It allows them to seize as “evidence” the inevitable occurrences of unusually cold weather as well as warm ones.

    The climate is always changing, so they must be right.

    Only the relatively elderly can remember the cynical haste with which the scaremongers dropped the “coming ice age” and embraced exactly the opposite prediction, but aimed at the same culprit – industry. This was in Britain, which was the cradle of the new belief and was a response to the derision resulting from the searing summer of 1976. The father of the new religion was Sir Crispin Tickell, and because he had the ear of Prime Minister, Margaret Thatcher, who was engaged in a battle with the coal miners and the oil sheiks, it was introduced into international politics with the authority of the only major political leader holding a qualification in science. The introduction was timely yet ironic since, in the wake of the world’s political upheavals, a powerful new grouping of left-wing interests was coalescing around environmental issues. The result was a new form of godless religion. The global warming cult has the characteristics of religion and not science for the following reasons.

    Faith and scepticism

    Faith is a belief held without evidence. The scientific method, a loose collection of procedures of great variety, is based on precisely the opposite concept, as famously declared by Thomas Henry Huxley:

    The improver of natural knowledge absolutely refuses to acknowledge authority, as such. For him, scepticism is the highest of duties; blind faith the one unpardonable sin.

    Huxley was one of a long tradition of British sceptical philosophers. From the Bacons, through the likes of Locke, Hume and Russell, to the magnificent climax of Popper’s statement of the principle of falsifiability, the scientific method was painfully established, only to be abandoned in a few short decades. It is one of the great ironies of modern history that the nation that was the cradle of the scientific method came to lead the process of its abandonment. The great difference, then, is that religion demands belief, while science requires disbelief. There is a great variety of faiths. Atheism is just as much a faith as theism. There is no evidence either way. There is no fundamental clash between faith and science – they do not intersect. The difficulties arise, however, when one pretends to be the other.

    The Royal Society, as a major part of the flowering of the tradition, was founded on the basis of scepticism. Its motto “On the word of no one” was a stout affirmation. Now suddenly, following their successful coup, the Greens have changed this motto of centuries to one that manages to be both banal and sinister – “Respect the facts.” When people start talking about “the facts” it is time to start looking for the fictions. Real science does not talk about facts; it talks about observations, which might turn out to be inaccurate or even irrelevant.

    The global warmers like to use the name of science, but they do not like its methods. They promote slogans such a “The science is settled” when real scientists know that science is never settled. They were not, however, always so wise. In 1900, for example, the great Lord Kelvin famously stated, “There is nothing new to be discovered in physics now. All that remains is more and more precise measurement.” Within a few years classical physics was shattered by Einstein and his contemporaries. Since then, in science, the debate is never closed.

    The world might (or might not) have warmed by a fraction of a degree. This might (or might not) be all (or in part) due to the activities of mankind. It all depends on the quality of observations and the validity of various hypotheses. Science is at ease with this situation. It accepts various theories, such as gravitation or evolution, as the least bad available and of the most practical use, but it does not believe. Religion is different.

    Sin and absolution…

    continued: http://www.numberwatch.co.uk/religion.htm

  • messenger

    The Planet does what Planets do. The weather does what weather does. We are not significant enough or clever enough to change those matters which have been going on for billions of years without us. We do however need to ensure that we take care of those parts of the Planet which we use and prevent their physical destruction which we do by mining, wars and stripping of resources. That is of course irrelevant since our own demise is a given and then the Planet and the weather can get on with it in peace.

  • northbrook

    Shows their desperation and stupidity. they refuse to believe facts and make up new lies so that they can profit from them

    • paulrph1

      Does Gore come to anyone’s mind?

      • Fred Mueller

        Unfortunately, yes.

      • liz

        Has anyone told this moron (Gore) that the ice cap is advancing? I guess the extinction of the dinosaurs was due to excessive flatulence!

        • S.C.Murf

          Liz no one can find him in his 25,000 sq. ft. homes to let him know

          up the hill
          airborne

      • BALONET TONEY MAHONEY

        Go to Tennesse & you can see his huge mansion lit up all night, go to California & see his house on beach that he bought with all the money made from a book that sternly warned people NOT to buy a house near the ocean…& all these suckers kissing his butt, while he made out like a bandit on the Chicago Climate Exchange with Maurice Strong!! Meanwhile, go to Texas & you will see George Bush’s house with all kinds of green energy saving devices!

        Well, it’s never a dull moment with the Loony Tunes PC Progressive Elitist Libs

  • hitthedeck

    Its amazing how the left keeps the global warming hype alive and the liberal sheep are still panic stricken with of the possibility of their shoes catching on fire. Obama still brings it up and will not back away from his proposed energy tax. If he passes the energy tax on the basis of global warming it will tell us that we are out numbered by idiots and its time to pack up our families and look for another promised land.

    • FreedomFighter

      It is all about AGENDA 21, population reduction, and control of the human race. The elites have decided technology has reached a point of development that the billions of “useless eaters”, that’s us btw, are no longer needed by civilization, that’s them and must be eliminated, that’s you.
      Only a small number of say 500 million or so are needed to fuel future advanced and the reduction in population will create a utopic playground for the survivors — them.
      Laus DeoSemper FI

      • hungry4food

        The Biggest Environmentalist Marxists out there are also the Heads of the 2 big 2 fail Financial system . we even had for a time as Treasury Secretary one of the BIGGEST Environmentalist EVER to have walked and control the credit life lines of everyone , and Credit is what drives production you know and he stopped it along with all his buddies , he said he was a republican but he was a wolf in sheep’s clothes , and he was the one that brought the whole financial system in to congress and on his knees he begged for a trillion got 750 billion and then went and did as he pleased with the tax payer cash and made his stock value soar to 250 million with tax payer bailout cash !!!

        Do you know who I am talking about ??????

      • S.C.Murf

        FF I read yesterday that some are saying the Colorado floods are a result of global warming. And while they were getting flooded the locals said it was the 100 year flood pattern. Man will never agree on anything, he’s to arrogant, what HE thinks is what is correct and to hell with the others idea’s. Sad state we are in today.

        up the hill
        airborne

        • WHITE WOMEN EVERYWHERE

          Go back a hundred years, when there was much less greenhouse gasses & technology & energy consumption, etc..and one will find horrible weather in USA, especially in the dustbowl era of the 1920’s & 30’s, all kinds of drought & tonradoes, etc……Cyclical changes in weather & mankind’s bad karma being balanced is all it is, plain & simple!

      • TheOriginalDaveH
    • liz

      We appear to be already out numbered by idiots in Government!!!!!!!!

      • TheOriginalDaveH

        Make no mistake, liz, the Leaders are not ignorant people. They know exactly what they are doing. Leaders have struggled for domination over their subjects throughout history. That’s why Thomas Jefferson said — “The natural progress of things is for liberty to yeild, and government to gain ground”.

      • Nadzieja batki

        It just seems that way because they are noisy and irritating and immature brats.

    • smilee

      90% of the experts across the world say it is not hype and say it is very real. Once the tipping point is reached you will know you are wrong because all will pay the price for your stupidity, along with every one else ,better safe than sorry .

      • TheOriginalDaveH

        You keep repeating that same conjecture, Sleepee, but you have still provided no evidence whatsoever of the veracity of your statement.
        Here’s my counter evidence:
        http://www.petitionproject.org/

      • MAGNA CARTA CUM LAUDE

        Oh, that famous Tipping Point…we have been hearing about that for over a decade and a half now…I’ll tell you the true tipping point & that is the point at which you & millions of others who cannot think for themselves starting to believe this nonsense!!

        • smilee

          We know it is coming at some point unless we reverse course on man made pollution, when no one can predict for sure, funny how almost all the experts disagree with you and you are so arrogant to suggest you know more than them which we know is all BS

  • Deerinwater

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Current_sea_level_rise

    I guess that it depends on who you wish to believe when it gets right down to it.

    The first liar hasn’t a chance.

    The danger John is talking about is “spending money and carbon credits”

    The danger proponents are talking about is “displacement of habitat”

    Both play a role in future social economic in a very real way while John speaks for the oil patch.

    To think of it as an endeavor of man , an “industry” that offers employment and wages like all other industries that would enable consumers to buy oil and gas, cars , cloths, houses and raise families in a cleaner world is just too far to stretch.

    • Fred Mueller

      You shouldn’t have to believe anyone. Just open your eyes, ears and mind and weigh the FACTS. Global warming is one of the biggest farces ever perpetrated on humanity. It’s just another way for organized crime to grow its wealth, power and control over all the people of the world.

      • Deerinwater

        Understood.

        Call me unusual, ~ I police up my brass and spent shells and attempt to leave an area the way that I found it.

        I don’t see a problem with being tidy and thrifty.

        While I too see a huge problem with taxing and carbon credit and where that could lead.

        • TheOriginalDaveH

          Deer says — “Call me unusual, ~ I police up my brass and spent shells and attempt to leave an area the way that I found it”.
          That’s nice, Deer, but what has that got to do with whether or not Global Warming is caused by man?

          • Nadzieja Batki

            Deerinwater is trying to be intellectual and deep.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            and failing miserably at it.

  • dan

    I was green before Earthday (72) but eshewed the movement because of the hypocritical takeover by the usual group of psychopaths…just like the peace movement and students for a democratic society….government …judicial system
    but one thing is true ; Band teachers (and global warmists) be CRAZY

  • brownstoneconstr

    that’s because they are perfect humans and it’s their way or the highway. winers winers winers!

    • Nadzieja Batki

      Did you mean whiners or the imbibers?

      • brownstoneconstr

        whiners, cry babies. and i’m being nice with the words.

  • Warrior

    Raising taxes fixes everything! And when they don’t get raised see what happens? And the wheels on the bus go round and round, round and round, round and round, and the wheels on the bus go………………………………………..When the tax rate was at 90%, all those rich people paid their “fair share” and everything was just “dandy”. Those were the “good old days” when the economy was “really” built to last. Hmmm, the more things “change” the more they appear to remain the “same”. Honey, please fix the “needle”, the record is skipping again.

    • hungry4food

      While those rates were 90 % the Idea to reinvest and grow your business was favorable to you in the USA and it did expand the supply .

      Today these Mongrels of Environmentalism are forcing Congress and Federal Agencies to Crap all over Business expansion in the USA so raising or lowering taxes will not matter unless these Mongrels are put in a BOX !!!!!

      • smilee

        The business lobby is far far more powerful and because of their influence we are now doing things their way because that is the way they want it even though they bitch about it but that is just a smoke screen.

  • Doc Sarvis

    First of all, it’s CLIMATE CHANGE not global warming. The graph presented means little since the number of records set will always trend downward in all climate models. A more meaningful graphs would be global average temperature or global average ocean temperature. Many are available on the web. Check this one about half way down the page:
    http://oceanworld.tamu.edu/resources/oceanography-book/evidenceforwarming.htm

    • smilee

      You are right

    • WHITE WOMEN EVERYWHERE

      NAH!! Much like economics these numbers can be twisted & turned any which way to prove a point….You have been had…you are a sucker!

    • TheOriginalDaveH

      It became “CLIMATE CHANGE”, Doc, after the people wised up to the Global Warming Scam. It is what Liberal Progressives do — Relabel their nonsense to suit their purposes.
      And the issue isn’t whether or not there is “CLIMATE CHANGE”. The issue is whether or not it is significantly caused by mankind.

    • Nadzieja Batki

      When the words climate change have run their course as did the words global warming what will be the new words to con people with? Your handlers must have given you the new language list to use.

  • DavidL

    Global warming is real and we better all come together and deal with it. The pathetic irony is that the worst effects and damage caused by global warming is occurring in the red states where most deniers live.

    • red neck

      Sorry …but you are a sick individual…
      You loony’s had rather spend your day making up a hoax than to confront real problems in this world… global warming is a smoke screen a lie and a fallacy that has been perpetrated by the far commie left in order to control every little aspect of the lives of billions of people… You have to use this lie because there is no other substantial method of affecting so many people in this world… However that being said we are on to you and what you are attempting and furthermore we will not stand idle and let you corruption go unnoticed.

      • smilee

        Denial is what you are sick with, over 90% of the scientists across the world (experts in that field) say you are 100% wrong and very few except the far right wing nuts say other wise and you area sucker to believe their propaganda

        • Free Donuts

          What magician’s hat do you pull that number out of? you are just spreading the lies…many of these so-called “scientists” have invested years in this philosophy, get funding for their research, so they will not relent & many will not admit they are wrong…the science in this issue is far from settled & there are just as many scientists who dispute it!

          • smilee

            These are scientists all across the world not just the US and not all get research money and their conclusions are the same so how do you explain that??? You have no proof of your allegations you just assume that is the case. The 90% is just to overwhelming to be ignored excecpt by fools.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Donuts asked for evidence, Sleepee. You know you have no credibility on this board.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Another Liberal Progressive who has no credibility on this board.
            Give it up, Shill Dave, you are creating more converts to my side than to yours.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            How many of your Boiler Room fellow Shills did it take to come up with that manipulative technique, Shill Dave?

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Nothing. But if they did, they would pay with their own money, not money stolen from taxpayers like your handlers pay you with.

          • Nadzieja Batki

            But you are believing the scientists that are paid shills of your corporation masters.

          • Free Donuts

            Show me the proof of 90%…it’s people like you who ignore the plethora of solid scientists who dispute or who are just not sure, ignore the fudging of data at East Anglia, who buy all the NY TIMES Crap-o-la….from all i’ve seen over the years, this issue is simply too complex, has too many factors & angles for one to be 100% certain such a thing exists & if it does what is causing it. But, if you are really in tune, you will honestly view & admit their Chicken Little “Sky is falling mantra” so we must act RIGHT NOW, Tipping point BS is wrong everytime!!

          • smilee

            There have been many documentaries and news reports from reputable sources saying the 90% + for a long time so where have you been hiding, You need to get your nose out of the far right propaganda and do some research in the real world.

          • THE PIGMAN

            HAHAHA!!! So, you believe everything the MSM lapdogs put out there………LOL!!!

          • smilee

            Better than your belief which comes from the far right propaganda mill that we know is BS, my conclusions are based on facts not propaganda as yours are

          • Nadzieja Batki

            So then who pays the salaries of those purported scientists and researchers? They have to eat, drive, make house payments, support the “families” they created, etc..
            Once a man/woman receive money for their research they do not normally have a mind of their own but must remain loyal to the people who own them. For writers on climate change, someone has to buy the books so they can make money.

          • Karolyn

            The same can be said for the other side too Nadzieja. In all likelihood, there are as many who back man’s effects on the cflimate as there are the opposite. Eeny-meeny-mine-moe. For every study with one conclusion, there is another with a different conclusion. And really everybody is not on the take. There are honest people. Oh, but in your view the only honest people are conservatives and libertarians, right? I’m sure there are some of those who believe in man having an influence on thye climate.
            http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/09/18/us-warming-idUSBRE98H0E620130918

          • smilee

            Your a big joke, everyone has income someway and that is irrelevant especially when it is so overwhelming in evidence that climate change is partly man made

        • red neck

          smile… I’m sure that you probably believe in evolution as well?…. Your ignorance does not impress anyone but yourself…. It is very sad when people like you are willing to believe anything that the government tells you to believe. I would hope that some day you will come to realize that all that you have been taught are lies.

          • smilee

            over 90% percent of the experts are wrong and you are right????? Come on can your BS

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Sources, Sleepee?
            You know, evidence to back up your conjecture?

          • smilee

            Its all over the internet and many other places, denial of these facts will not allow you this simple way of escape from your denial

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            The usual useless comment that we can expect from Liberal Progressives like Sleepee.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Well then, Sleepee, it should be easy for you to find one and post a link.

          • smilee

            I could give you 100 links with the truth and it is guaranteed you would not believe any of them but if you were not so lazy you could research it yourself because the truth is out there for those who seek it which you never do as your to deeply steeped in the far right propaganda and suckered in by it.

          • Nadzieja Batki

            But who says they are experts, from whom did they get authority to propagate their nonsense?

          • smilee

            These are very educated persons in their field with years of experience that gives them the authority. Your authority to challenge it?? Your most likely a nobody steeped in right wing propaganda

        • TheOriginalDaveH

          New science report debunks climate scare:
          http://www.newswire.ca/en/story/1226523/new-science-report-debunks-climate-scare
          31,487 American scientists say — There is no convincing evidence that man is affecting the climate.
          http://www.petitionproject.org/

      • Paul

        Red Neck, you are partially correct. I don’t think there is a single reasonable person in our world that would disagree that even the breath we exhale from our lungs has an impact in our environment. The problem is government and not global warming! They’ve used this topic as an excuse to feed on the fear of the people to get more money from us. Politicians could give a crap about you, me and our environment; it is all about money, period. Until we stand together and fight them to reduce government size, we are all doomed as has happened in our past history going back thousand years.

  • StinkBomb Jones

    The lesson to be learned is that once the lefties get hold of an issue & an ideology, no matter what the facts or truth is, they will not relent…they will cheat, lie , distort, contort & rely on their friends in the media to continue to spread the lies & especially the fear so they can gain more control They will not engage in true & open discourse or debate (see Gore ignore Lord Monckton).

    It all goes back to the early 70’s & Paul Ehrlich’s “The Population Bomb” which predicted that within 25 years, half the humans on earth would die from famine & most natural resources would be completely depleted, so you better not have any more children. some 40 years later, the population of the earth has increased some 3.5 billion & there is a much higher standard of living &, cleaner water & available food in most 3rd world nations! But, astonishingly, Ehrlich still claims he was correct!!!!!!! He will not admit he was wrong. The global warming loonies will not admit they are wrong either.& their models are consistently wrong , time & time again!

  • THE PIGMAN

    Though I’m a skeptic on global warming & blaming greenhouse gasses for every hurricane, tornado & volcano, I do believe that our energy sources do pollute the earth, water, air & food supplies & we still need to try to implement economically viable renewable energy. But, the technology is there, but the dark forces will not let it happen.

    USA & many other European nations have become cleaner but India & China & other Asian nations will burn anything!

    • TheOriginalDaveH

      The technology may be there, pigman, but the economics are not. Why would you want to use inefficient costly energy sources which will further impoverish the world? It is a well-known fact that the dirtiest countries are the poorest countries.
      The smart thing to do would be to save our financial and natural resources for the time when we really do need them — when the carbon-based fuels are actually running out. And that won’t be a sudden event, unless it is artificially created by Government malfeasance.
      With Free Markets, as supplies of carbon-based fuels diminished, the prices would go up naturally, and entrepreneurs would search for alternative energy sources that were actually economically competitive with the then more costly fossil fuels. This would occur without the very costly involvement (both in terms of Freedom and monetarily) of meddlesome, Crony-Capitalist favoring, Big Government.

      • THE PIGMAN

        What i’m saying is way beyond economics, free markets, govts, etc..When I say the technology is there, I mean the Tesla-type technology that gets free energy from the earth’s magnetic belt! There are those who know how to do it, but then the Big Boys would lose their control over us. Simply put, the dark forces, both Left & right will not let it happen!

        • TheOriginalDaveH

          Pigman,
          If you really believe that Leaders are suppressing technology (I don’t) then the best you could do is to help us Libertarians shrink Government dramatically so they can not interfere with our Free Markets.
          For Individual Liberty, Personal Responsibility, Free Markets, Limited Government, and the PEACE that results — Vote Libertarian:
          http://www.lp.org/

          • The Pigman

            I’m talking about the dark souls that pull the strings of the leaders, research how those who have this technology are suppressed in attempting to get the patents….but you make a cogent point. It is always a good idea to shrink the govt.. May it one day shrink to the point where the markets will truly be free!

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            I have no doubt that there are conspiracies going on around us. In fact my own siblings are conspiring to take advantage of me in an inheritance situation. But the only possibility we have of controlling those kinds of people is to take away the coercive force which protects them — Big Government.

          • THE PIGMAN

            Yes, Big Govt. is involved & it could not happen otherwise..all must walk with God!

  • Patriot_Dave

    There a number of factors involved in the climate change paradigm… Output from the sun is a key player as well as ‘greenhouse’ gasses, aerosols and particulates from vehicles, fires, volcanoes, meteors and man made attempts at modifying weather (chem trails). Most of you missed the FACT that the sun’s output took a dive this summer (note that solar physicists now believe that this solar max will have a ‘double bump’ peak and we are in the trough right now) Just because the arctic ice rebounded a bit, it has by no means recovered to the densities prior to 1987. Yes Carbon Cap and trade is BS!!.. I’m not going to say it is not and I will fight vehemently to STOP it!! But to decry the FACTS based on a misunderstanding of the data revealed (John, you need to go back to the original source…not the politically filtered article you posted… http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/) and you should see that this marginal increase in arctic sea ice is well within the ranges predicted, Yes, it’s a little on the ‘high’ side this YEAR vs last year…. BUT last summer it was CLEARLY on the LOW side… all the more reason to watch closely and to stop the DENIAL based on the wishful thinking that our ‘human’ activities have ABSOLUTELY no impact on our climate or that accepting it makes you less of a CONSERVATIVE… We are a part of the hydrosphere and every ‘part’ plays a factor in the outcome as well as our local star and orbital precession (the shifting of the seasons over millennium)…. Plus, our Sun is a variable star and all of it’s nuances are yet to be fully understood….

  • TheOriginalDaveH

    Good article, John.
    Thanks.

    • John Myers

      Thanks OriginalDave!
      Best,
      John Myers

  • jaybird

    I think it is a combination of things, global warming, pollution, cows f..ting too much, we are exhaling too much, the people in China & India need to hold their breath some. Moderation in all things, try not to be fanatical & rigid about changing things and imposing laws that are hard to work with. Other countries are not trying to help at all.

    • Nadzieja Batki

      Because those countries you speak of have no interest in helping America. America is only needed to be parasitized.

      • Karolyn

        It’s not about helping America; it’s about helping the world!

        • Nadzieja Batki

          We have no business helping the world, Globalist Karolyn. Let each nation take care of its own business.

          • Karolyn

            Oh, come on, we have every business helping each other. That is what we are here for.

      • jaybird

        What I said is Moderation in all things and do not be fanatical and rigid in making the laws for businesses. These other countries need to help themselves in slowing down the pollution. I did not say they needed to help America.

        • Nadzieja Batki

          So why don’t you mind your own business and let the other countries clean up their messes which they make. Go agitate in China and India to clean up their pollution if they let you agitate there.
          By the way, I was not given authority to make laws for businesses but neither were you.

          • jaybird

            Why so angry? It sounds like you are foaming at the mouth. You are the one agitated, not me. I am glad you cannot make laws because you cannot understand what you read. I was not directing my comment to you, so you need to mind your own business.

  • TheOriginalDaveH

    Make no mistake about it, Folks. The Global Warming (Climate Change) hoax has nothing to do with environment or fuel shortages, and everything to do with POWER for our would-be Masters. They are pulling out every trick they can muster to complete their domination of the rest of us.

    Here are a couple of good websites for those who would like to research the truth about Global Warming:
    http://www.climatedepot.com/
    http://cei.org/expert/christopher-c-horner

    • Deerinwater

      On a Global scale it’s not a hoax at all. While I do believe there is some hype associated with some of it.

      As far as any “serfdom” that David H. speaks of ~ I think that it’s an illusion to believe we’ve not as we have been for a very long time.

      Somewhere, at some point ~ the value of a consumer must be considered by any business. people in chains and shackles don’t spend a lot.

      Competing markets and supply and demand forces keeps these notions of serfdom at bay. ~ As least until one entity can rule it all ~ which seems to be where we are headed very slowly.

      David H ~ flops around, from a extremely long view , to an extremely short view regularly without warning or precursor ~ But one thing is certain about David , ~ he’ll believe what someone that he doesn’t know from Adam who wrote a book, rather then his lying eyes.

      • TheOriginalDaveH

        More obtuse Gargle Bargle from Deer.

    • JeffH

      Here’s another good wesite…
      http://www.cfact.org/about/

  • flashy

    M Ah yes, the tried and true method of misleading through statistics, misrepresent data, and above all … protect Big Oil and the USbaddiction fattening wallets of the oil drug dealers. Merely pointing out that the 60% I’ve sheet growth is from last year’s smallest ice sheet in the past few thousand years suffices to satisfy rational people of the article’s questionable a accuracy. adding that it was written by an oil industry insider would persuade most anyone not crazed.

    For those who dwell in lives of negativity, ask it thus,way.

    if the Green Energy side is wrong, the worst outcome is independence from foreign oil, clean environment, advancement in technology, and trade balances. not to mention we don’t have to be involved in Middle East affairs.

    Now what if the anti Green, pro Big Oil, anti American wackos are wrong ?

    Go ahead, explain that to the kids and grandkids that you bequeath your fortunes to ….

    • TheOriginalDaveH

      Shill Multiple-Personality Flashman says — “if the Green Energy side is wrong, the worst outcome is independence from foreign oil, clean environment, advancement in technology, and trade balances”.
      Not by a long shot. We face further (much further) Loss of our Prosperity, and Loss of our Freedom. If you want to travel the Road to Serfdom, just follow the Shill Flashman.

    • John myers

      Dear flashy,
      You write: “(If) the Green Energy side is wrong, the worst outcome is independence from foreign oil, clean environment, advancement in technology, and trade balances. not to mention we don’t have to be involved in Middle East affairs.”
      This is naive. If the Greens are wrong and America switches to yet unproven and expensive green technologies under government mandate while major competitors like China continue to use proven and efficient fossil fuels, America will become less competitive. American lifestyles will decline. Global influence will continue to grow in the Far East.

      Sincerely,
      John Myers

      • John Myers

        I agree Dave,
        Oil is a loser’s bet over the long-term; mostly because it is, as you say, a finite resource. But what is the long-term?

        Many times I’ve been to Alberta’s oil sands. It is sad to see the earth so badly ripped apart. What will be far more sad would be freezing to death and a transportation system that will not move.

        Twenty-five years ago I covered the big story on cold fusion. Everyone at our office was excited. Just one problem — it didn’t work. So far neither does solar on the scale we need. I expect a breakthrough in something, hopefully in my lifetime
        Sincerely,
        John Myers

        • Karolyn
        • John Myers

          Dave,
          Interesting comment but money not oil drives the world. “If” scientists could discover affordable, practical and clean energy it would be bigger than the microchip. It would be the greatest invention since the wheel. That nobody has yet found a way to become a multibillionaire and have there name go down in history tells me the science doesn’t exist.
          Instead scientists and people like Al Gore are making millions crying out: “The Sky is Falling!”
          Sincerely,
          John Myers

          • The Pigman

            The science does exist, Tesla proved it, but those in high positions will not let it happen. Before Tesla died, JP Morgan backed him, he had 50 homes on Long Island NY fitted with antennas to get his free energy from the transmitting station, & the morning before it was to start a fire burned down the transmitting station & Morgan told Tesla, “They won’t let us do it”…Tesla also invented a car that ran on the electro-magnetic field of the earth…free, clean energy forever! When Tesla died , the dark forces stole all his papers & research, etc..There are now several souls on earth who have figured out how he did it & one of them has told Coast to Coast radio the US govt. will not give him a patent.

            Until those that would stifle these things are removed, we will be stuck in the mucky, dirty oil, I’m afraid…having said that, I still think Global warming is a bigtime scam/sham

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Only $40,000? What a bargain. And just think, if you can get it to run on air, you will save $175 per month or $2100 per year. And you will have paid for the $20,000 up front costs in only 10 years. Of course that’s assuming that in addition to the actual costs of charging the car, you also never have anything go wrong with it.
            http://healthland.time.com/2012/02/14/why-electric-cars-are-more-polluting-than-gas-guzzlers-at-least-in-china/
            http://www.thenewamerican.com/tech/environment/item/15971-former-electric-car-engineer-electric-cars-pollute-more-than-gas

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            You’re funny, Shill Dave. And that “$7500 tax credit” comes from where? Thanks for proving my point, Shill Dave.
            Shill Dave says — “Now you don’t have to pay for gas and that saves you anywhere from $175-$250 a month in gas costs”.
            No, but you do have to pay for the electricity to charge the car, Shill Dave. Nice equivocation — something an ignorant Liberal Progressive might actually believe.
            Shill Dave says — “How many new cares are at $22500 and above? quite alot”.
            The issue isn’t how many cars there are about $22500, Shill Dave, but how much does a car cost that is equipped equivalently to the Tesla Model S. And by the way, where did you get the fantasy figure of $40,000 anyway? Here is the price for the basic Tesla Model S from Kelly Blue Book:
            http://www.kbb.com/tesla/model-s/2013-tesla-model-s/base-style/?vehicleid=379198&intent=buy-new&options=
            Is it any wonder you have no credibility on this board, Shill Dave?

            Is Tesla’s Model S Bad for the Environment?
            http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2013/08/24/is-teslas-model-s-bad-for-climate-change.aspx

            Some common sense:
            http://mises.org/daily/4714

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            I saw that, Shill Dave, and I ignored it, because nobody can produce pricing 2 years out, and because it was equivocation on your part (oh, surprise) to use a future guess for your analysis.
            Shill Dave says — “I also gave you the expenses when hook into your 220V circuit to charge… The charging expense is minimal… $9-14 extra on your bill a month depending on how you charge”.
            No, Shill Dave, you didn’t. But if you had it doesn’t wash anyway. Tesla claims its 85Kw model gets 300 mi per charge. At 16 cents a Kwh (my rate) that works out to $13.60 per charge or about $45/month for the average usage of 12,000 miles per year. But that’s only part of the picture because the battery is degrading constantly and the stated cost of a battery replacement is $12,000. And that is the bargain rate offered by Tesla to get sales. What if they go bankrupt? What will a battery pack cost then?
            http://www.plugincars.com/tesla-model-s-replacement-battery-packs-125571.html

            And newsflash, Shill Dave, the solar panels on your house weren’t free. The average cost per Kwh of Solar Panels was about 38 cents in 2009 (excluding Government subsidies):
            http://exploringgreentechnology.com/solar-energy/cost-of-solar-panels/

        • TheOriginalDaveH

          That’s because Arizona hasn’t yet evolved to the state of Big Government like Kalifornia or some of the other Liberal Progressive states that could care less how much of their subject’s money they waste.

          Shill Dave says — “We need to think about the future today, not when the next “crisis” hits”.
          So you think it’s wise for the future to impoverish our present?

    • TML

      Flashy says, “if the Green Energy side is wrong, the worst outcome is independence from foreign oil, clean environment, advancement in technology, and trade balances. not to mention we don’t have to be involved in Middle East affairs. Now what if the anti Green, pro Big Oil, anti American wackos are wrong ?”

      Isn’t that the same reasoning that theists use with atheists? If you’re right (the theist says), nothing happens, but if I’m right, you may spend an eternity in hell. The better safe than sorry ideal doesn’t logically apply to the science of climate change anymore than it does to religion, especially since it first assumes that climate change is a result of mankind, and second, that mankind could do anything about it anymore than they could stop the sun from dying.

      And then if we consider the fact that such an idea as man-made climate change is being advocated more by politicians than scientists, the questions are invoked; how would the money we are taxed for ‘carbon foot-prints’ – indeed, even the very air we breathe – be used, and how would it actually change anything? I think the obvious answer is that there isn’t a damn thing the government could do with the money it taxes us for climate change, to actually change anything.

      I believe people should do their utmost not to pollute, but giving my money to a government that can’t even fix their own budget, much less save the planet from climate change, simply isn’t going to happen.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgNhW5MXOBw

    • BorderCollie&PyrTexCattleman

      I’ve travelled extensively throughout the world & I assure you India, China, Russia and other “developing” countries do not and will not give a rip about global warming. As a farmer, former military/commercial pilot I attest the tripe you spew is utter nonsense. Please tell me what your solution is to volcanic eruptions and solar storms? huh? Do you even have a clue of the matter ejected into the atmosphere with a vollcanic eruption? Go ahead and worship the earth your god. Meanwhile, you have given me motivation to go out and start every diesel chugging tractor, lawn mower, weed eater and whatever other carbon emitting reciprocating engine on the ranch. Following that, butcher a young steer, shoot some dove and burn some dead trees just to piss you off. After that, go fire off some rounds to make sure numerous rifles are dead-on for varmits ranging from 120-250 lbs. My goal is to piss you guys off to the extent I can seduce you and your types to tresspass on my property.

      • Vis Fac

        I thought you might be a neighbor of mine and of the same mindset but I know that isn’t the case. I also thought you understood Mr. Meyer’s point of liberal/green irrationality but apparently that sailed miles over your head. Mr. Meyers is correct you are in error.

        I can attest to one thing other developing countries don’t care or recognize global warming only the “sophisticated” one dimensional liberal countries do. As a business man and manufacturer I engaged in international commerce on every continent sans Antarctica.

        As an engineer I know a thing or two about manufacturing and electric generation I can tell you that there are only two clean sources for electric generation. Geo-thermal and hydroelectric. Even geo-thermal produces some “green house” gas. Unless you are on top of a geo-thermal well or alongside a river the chance of using clean/green energy is remote producing

        Traditional steam generating plants use one or a combination of three fossil fuels Coal/Coke oil, or natural gas. All produce hydrocarbons and other gases. Acceptable limits are in the thousands of tone per day. Volcanoes produce millions of times more that all the traditional generators combined.

        The production of photo-voltaic generating panels has its fair share of toxic waste too, and needs constant maintenance. Since I live on nearly 80 hectares I am limited to what is available photo-voltaic is my only affordable option. I have a 5000 Gal. propane setup for heating to augment my wood stove and cooking. In a emergency i have a propane electric generator but prefer the photo voltaic system. I also have a few spare inverters and charge limiters for the PV system as these have a finite life span.

        Yes I have dead trees to use as firewood, livestock that emits green house gas and several internal combustion machines and vehicles. I hunt with Black Powder which emits S02 (sulfur dioxide)

        I might have thought you were of good stock however your castigating attitude dictates otherwise.

        Libertas inaestimabilis res est
        Semper-Fi

      • Vis Fac

        I thought you might be a neighbor of mine and of the same mindset but I know that isn’t the case. I also thought you understood Mr. Meyer’s point of liberal/green irrationality but apparently that sailed miles over your head. Mr. Meyers is correct you are in error.

        I can attest to one thing other developing countries don’t care or recognize global warming only the “sophisticated” one dimensional liberal countries do. As a business man and manufacturer I engaged in international commerce on every continent sans Antarctica.

        As an engineer I know a thing or two about manufacturing and electric generation I can tell you that there are only two clean sources for electric generation. Geo-thermal and hydroelectric. Even geo-thermal produces some “green house” gas. Unless you are on top of a geo-thermal well or alongside a river the chance of using clean/green energy is remote producing

        Traditional steam generating plants use one or a combination of three fossil fuels Coal/Coke oil, or natural gas. All produce hydrocarbons and other gases. Acceptable limits are in the thousands of tone per day. Volcanoes produce millions of times more that all the traditional generators combined.

        The production of photo-voltaic generating panels has its fair share of toxic waste too, and needs constant maintenance. Since I live on nearly 80 hectares I am limited to what is available photo-voltaic is my only affordable option. I have a 5000 Gal. propane setup for heating to augment my wood stove and cooking. In a emergency i have a propane electric generator but prefer the photo voltaic system. I also have a few spare inverters and charge limiters for the PV system as these have a finite life span.

        Yes I have dead trees to use as firewood, livestock that emits green house gas and several internal combustion machines and vehicles. I hunt with Black Powder which emits S02 (sulfur dioxide)

        I might have thought you were of good stock however your castigating attitude dictates otherwise.

        Libertas inaestimabilis res est
        Semper-Fi

  • TheOriginalDaveH

    Sure, Folks, mind Shill Dave and help to enrich such environmental hypocrites as Al Gore, and Barbara Streisand:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8yf7ea4D_Q
    http://www.featherlessbiped.com/lh.htm

    • TheOriginalDaveH

      How are technologies, which are inefficient and expensive, good for the world, Shill Dave? I thought you Liberal Progressives were all about helping poor people? How is increasing their energy bills helping them?

      Shill Dave says — “By all means lets listen you your corp paid scientists and not what is happening in the world from sea levels and what 90% of the scientific world is saying”.
      And your evidence for such claims is where, Shill Dave?
      From your Government-paid Scientists?

      The Great Global Warming Swindle:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtevF4B4RtQ

      • TheOriginalDaveH

        Some day Solar Energy may well indeed be competitive with fossil fuels, but only ignorant people would throw money away on it before that day comes.
        If indeed Solar Energy does become economical, then people would buy it voluntarily in Free Markets. They wouldn’t need Liberal Progressives to ram products down their throats which they didn’t want.

        You gotta love the irony in this Shill Dave comment — “You and your ilk could care less about the poor or the earth… its money that matters”.
        As he stumps for forcing people to buy inefficient costly energy which will further degrade the financial condition of the poor.

        Renewable Energy: Not Cheap, Not “Green”:
        http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-280.html
        Get the Government Out of Solar:
        http://reason.org/news/show/get-the-government-out-of-solar
        Energy, the Master Resource:
        https://mises.org/store/Energy-The-Master-Resource-P196.aspx

        • TheOriginalDaveH

          The fact that you are so ignorant as to call me “corporatist”, Shill Dave, just proves you have no credibility. There is nobody on this board who even comes close to the drubbing I give your Crony Capitalist handlers, Shill Dave.
          There is no disputing the fact that the poorest countries have the worst pollution. But Shill Dave and his Liberal Progressive cohorts want to take us there anyway.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            You make no sense, Shill Dave. They are using Fossil Fuels because they are poor. You know, Shill Dave, that condition which you advocate for our country with your mandated expensive energy usage.

          • Patriot_Dave

            I guess you have never heard of Germany…..

          • TheOriginalDaveH
          • Patriot_Dave

            And these links prove What exactly??….I see the countries that opted out of continuing down fossil path as having the best air quality….Germany, Austria and Switzerland now have excellent air quality…Are you claiming this was not because of their switch to Solar and wind? I’ve been reading your posts… you are at best a shill for the Oligarchists…. Big Business must be right (Or I don’t get paid) kind of person…..Your flat out refusal to consider anything except what you read (and repost) from the far right-centric views with all of their purchased pseudo-science just goes to prove all of the points that myself and many others on here have made, it points to your allegiance to BIG Money and BIG Corporations…..Facts mean nothing to you unless these facts come from YOUR sources…. You decry ad-hominem remarks but you make them time and time again…you claim statements are non sequitur without backing up YOUR own thoughts… and like your response to me….. Yes poor countries have dirty air… and until they switch over to cleaner energy alternatives they will have dirty air….Germany is a shining example of that…..

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            I said — “There is no disputing the fact that the poorest countries have the worst pollution”.
            Then you said — “I guess you have never heard of Germany”.
            If you meant to say Germany was cleaner because of its Alternate Energy use, PDave, you need to be clear about that.
            That is another issue, which would involve much more analysis than I am willing to contribute at this time.
            And, by the way, PDave, I was referring to the other Dave in my original comment — Shill Dave, not you.

            Since we are on that subject, PDave, can you honestly tell me that you’ve done enough research to attribute Germany’s cleaner environment to their Alternate Energy? And what are the costs to their people? I see by the below chart that their GDP per capita, on a PPP basis, is 20% lower than that of the US. Shouldn’t people get to decide which is more important to them — very clean air or a better economy?
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita

            The funny thing, PDave, is that I usually skim through comments that aren’t well-thought-out, so I missed this little gem the first time around:
            PDave says — “I’ve been reading your posts… you are at best a shill for the Oligarchists”.
            How ignorant can you be? I constantly rail for Small Government and against Crony Capitalism. How could you miss that if you read even 20% of my comments?

          • Patriot_Dave

            Simple… regardless of the context you seem to support the fossil fuel industry (Please correct me here if I have mistaken your stance on this subject)…. It’s time to wean ourselves off the dino juice, coal and coal like substances and eventually CH4, I don’t care how cheap it is now, it is NOT renewable and therefore a threat to our future (in many ways) and you seem to disagree…. As for your stance on Government, I agree, but who wants a small inept government…. I want an effective government… smaller would be better but not to point that many Libertarians have called for… Inept is inept.. plain and simple…. I agree that our government is too big and very inept.. but you must admit that many Libertarians would prefer to toss the baby out with the bath water (get rid of the EPA, FDA, CIA, NSA and a whole slew of other alphabet agencies, etc)…. Crony Capitalists…aka Oligarchists need to reigned in… they ARE (IMO) THE problem…. Greed with totalitarian power over common sense is not the way to perpetual prosperity…it is an ASSURED path to doom…..And the last gem… We need to reject the ideal of a credit based economy…. It does not support the American dream…never will….And in general is bad for the worlds economies…

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            PDave says — “regardless of the context you seem to support the fossil fuel industry”.
            No, PDave, I support the right of the consumers to choose the energy source that they prefer. Free Markets.

            PDave says — “I don’t care how cheap it is now, it is NOT renewable and therefore a threat to our future (in many ways) and you seem to disagree”.
            Why is that a threat to our future, PDave? If/when it starts running out, then would be the time to worry about it, not now.

            PDave says — “smaller would be better but not to point that many Libertarians have called for”.
            What point is that? In 1900, Government spent less than 5% of our GDP. Now Government spends more than 40% of our GDP. Were our ancestors 8 times more miserable than we are? Hardly. And please don’t boor me, PDave, with some statement about population or such, as comparison to GDP negates such.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            PDave says — “You decry ad-hominem remarks but you make them time and time again”.
            Almost your entire comment was ad hominem, PDave. How can you look in the mirror without seeing a very big hypocrite?

          • Patriot_Dave

            How can YOU?

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            I bring a gun to your gunfight, PDave. Why is it that you think that’s unfair?

          • Patriot_Dave

            I never said it was unfair…those are your words… bring your gun and…whatever you need to support your contrived ‘let the free market choose’ views…. I am all in favor of a true free market… wish we had one…but we don’t…. Corporations create most of their markets… and as such pollute the entire idea of a ‘free marketplace’ If a truly free market should emerge, where corporations have to put forth an accounting of the TRUE lifetime costs of their products and services then you would see a paradigm shift in how financially secure consumers address that market….

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            But you did whine about my ad hominem attacks on others. Never mind that those others have always initiated the attacks.
            It seems to me, PDave, that you went to the long string of ad hominem attacks on me because you had no logical rebuttal.
            Even in your latest comment you continue to do the ad hominem attacks, like calling my views “contrived”.
            So far I have been pretty respectful to you, but if you want to continue along your current line of disrespect then I will start treating you the same.

            PDave says — “If a truly free market should emerge, where corporations have to put forth an accounting of the TRUE lifetime costs of their products and services”.
            Obviously, PDave, you don’t know what Free Markets are. They owe you NO explanation of their costs. They do owe you honesty. If they claim a product does something it doesn’t, then they are guilty of fraud and should suffer a suitable punishment. Otherwise it is none of your business what costs they incurred in the making of their products. If you think you could do better, then do so. Start your own company and make those products cheaper and better — Free of special Government aids like regulations, quotas, price controls, etc., etc., etc.
            Instead of pestering me, arguing against concepts you don’t understand, why don’t you read this book so when you debate with me in the future at least you have a better grasp of what Free Markets and Capitalism are:
            http://library.mises.org/books/Kel%20Kelly/The%20Case%20for%20Legalizing%20Capitalism.pdf

          • Patriot_Dave

            The self avowed ever so righteous DaveH says: “They owe you NO explanation of their costs. They do owe you honesty. If they claim a product does something it doesn’t, then they are guilty of fraud and should suffer a suitable punishment. Otherwise it is none of your business what costs they incurred in the making of their products. If you think you could do better, then do so.” This is where we part ways… you obviously believe that for whatever reasons that Corporations get a free pass when it comes to Honesty…. As long as no one knows the facts, regardless of the outcome or implications, that’s ‘ok’ to you…. As long as you constantly redefine or misdirect everything to meet your needs or point of view and not the bigger picture.. You seem to understand the bigger picture, but often rebuke it and those that see through your BS and call you out will continue to do so… and I’m guessing you will continue to attack them on one hand while on the other hand claim that any attacks against you are unjustified and the retribution you delve out is…….I’m pretty sure you what we call that… I don’t see where you understand that most of the economics we are taught has anything to do with what is right…only what is legal… you have admitted many overly restrictive Laws must change ….BTW…. I am doing so… And just so you know (because you obviously believe otherwise)…making a product ‘cheaper’ is not the way of capturing and maintaining market share as in most cases the products’ demise is guaranteed once that occurs …. Making it better than your competition does improve maintenance of market share, even though the initial cost of ownership may be higher…The lifetime cost is lower because it outperforms and outlasts inferior aka ‘cheaper’ products…. We cannot afford to continue to live in a throw away world…. We cannot afford to consume our way into the future… How do you suggest we get there supporting the very same ideals that got us where we are today?

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            You lost me with your opening sentence, PDave. I won’t bother reading the rest of your ignorant statement.

          • Patriot_Dave

            Good maybe you’ll say LOST

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Don’t hold your breath waiting for that event, PDave, because I will be here as long as Progressives utter their ignorant statements.
            I thought at one time there was hope for you. Obviously I was wrong.

          • Patriot_Dave

            There’s your problem… Believing that ALL progressive thinking individuals utter ignorant nonsense…. Ignorance is only an issue with the uneducated…. Stupidity on the other hand is innate and can’t be fixed…. I will be waiting for you to overstep your intellect …again…. I’ll leave you with this…It matters not if the Liberal or the Conservative poisons the water…. The water is still poisoned… and everyone who drinks from it suffers the ill effects….

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            The very meaning of the political term — Progressive — dictates that either you are ignorant, or you’re one of the politically-connected people who is taking advantage of the rest. A Progressive is a person who thinks Big Government should solve Society’s problems. Since Government can’t really solve Society’s problems, and the Leaders simply are fleecing the rest of us, the only way you can gain is by being one of the takers.
            PDave says — “I will be waiting for you to overstep your intellect”.

            I don’t need to wait for that event coming from you, PDave, as it occurs almost every time you comment.

          • Patriot_Dave

            You assumed the political definition….TSK TSK.. shame on you… I am not a part of the political BS defined as ‘Progressives’…. I am pro PROGRESS… or ANTI-REGRESS…. I am NOT a taker… I am a Producer…. What ARE you? Besides an ASSUMER…..

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            The definition was not assumed:
            http://freedomlessons.net/freedom-101/progressives-and-tug-o-war/
            I should add that Leaders always want Bigger Government, so the desire was there long before the Progressive movement. The Progressives just gave Leaders cover to deceive the people about what their true goals were.

            PDave says — “What ARE you?”.
            I’m a guy who is years ahead of you in relation to politics and economics. I’m a guy who you should listen to (whether you agree or not) if you have any intelligence at all.

          • Patriot_Dave

            A self absorbed aren’t you? You assumed I meant that I was a ‘Progressive’ or you would not have jumped on that bandwagon…You only saw what you wanted to see…so it would be easier for you to respond… I know that for a fact…I’ve made that same mistake a few times myself. That being said…. State your credentials and then enlighten me…. and Please steer clear of the politically charged BS…I came to this site looking to find out what others think about the topics presented…. Not to listen to Political rhetoric…… If I want that I’ll go listen to Rush, Glenn, Sean, Alex or Rachel….

          • Patriot_Dave

            A bit self absorbed there aren’t you? You assumed and you know it or you would not have jumped on that bandwagon. So Mr Light Years ahead of me, state your qualifications and then enlighten me….. Without the political rhetoric… Just the Facts…and all of the facts… nothing cherry picked, one sided or filtered…..I came to this site to discuss REAL issues not banter about political folly….

          • KG

            Actually you are a ‘corporatist’ in the classical Fascist way of Benito Mussolini.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporatism

          • KG

            Actually you are a ‘corporatist’ in the classical Fascist way of Benito Mussolini.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporatism

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            And how is that, KGB? Please be clear.

          • KG

            Corporatism is a system of social organization that has at its base the grouping of men according to the community of their natural interests and social functions, and as true and proper organs of the state they direct and coordinate labor and capital in matters of common interest. You would have us all be categorized as to their effect on the economy. You and your rich buddies would, of course, be at the top of that society as your accumulation of wealth would prove you worthy. Workers, like my self would occupy a lower status due to our lack of social standing among your wealthy friends. And, of course, the truly poor and destitute would occupy the lowest category – chattel to be used in your Von Misies/Rothbard/Nazi ‘libertarian’ paradise.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            I love it how the controller, the guy who takes from other people, tries to turn the tables on a guy who wants everybody to be Free to make their own decisions absent the whims of people like KGB.
            You’re not fooling anybody, KGB.

          • KG

            I still do not understand where you get this Idea that I’m a ‘controller’. And what makes you think that someone who want to work for a decent wage ‘takes’ from anybody? Maybe the realization of the truth behind so-called ‘Libertarians’ has produced too much cognitive dissonance for yourself. I have but one vote and I have one voice and only two hands. Maybe it’s the fact that I realize I do not have to be alone in the world. That I can admit that I need help to survive in this world – that I am not an Island :

            No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friend’s or of thine own were: any man’s death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.

            Meditation #17 By John Donne From Devotions upon Emergent Occasions (1623), XVII:

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            You advocate Communism, and you advocate Unionism, both of which require coercive control over their victims. You ARE a Controller, KGB.

            KGB says — “And what makes you think that someone who want to work for a decent wage ‘takes’ from anybody?”.
            They can “want” to work for a decent wage all they want. But they are “taking” from others when they form their Mobs and harass replacement workers, company officials, and the company’s customers. Anybody who isn’t part of the Mob can see that.

            I am not the one with “cognitive dissonance”, KGB. It is you who can rationalize trespassing on other people’s bodies and property to achieve your own self-interests.

  • IN THE PRESENCE OF THE LORD

    What about Chemtrails & HAARP, etc..? These actions by the hordes of darkness, while now much more known than in the past, are still continuing unabated & impacting the weather & climate way more than any energy sources. My advice: PRAY THAT YOU & YOUR LOVED ONES ARE PROTECTED & FOR THE EXPOSURE, BINDING & JUDGMENT OF THOSE IN MANY NATIONS PERPETRATING THESE CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY!!

    See Ephesians 6:11-12; “PUT ON THE WHOLE ARMOUR OF GOD, THAT YE MAY BE ABLE TO STAND AGAINST THE WILES OF THE DEVIL. FOR WE WRESTLE NOT AGAINST FLESH & BLOOD, BUT AGAINST PRINCIPALITIES, AGAINST POWERS, AGAINST THE RULERS OF DARKNESS OF THIS WORLD, AGAINST SPIRITUAL WICKEDNESS IN HIGH PLACES”

    • KG

      1 Thessalonians 4:16-18
      King James Version (KJV)
      16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
      17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
      18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

      We are supposed to “comfort’ each other, not try to scare the crap out of each other!

      • http://www.rt.com Alondra

        Again you are coming with the Satan’s crap, Devil’s son.

        Who will be caught up together in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air, Kommunist Gay?

        C H R I S T I A N S !!!

        To the Satan’s bastards like you the LORD will declare: ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness/evil.” (Matthew
        7:21-23)

        And you will go to your daddy’s place – H E L L !!!

        “Then the devil, who had DECEIVED THEM, was thrown into the FIERY LAKE of burning sulfur, joining the beast and the FALSE PROPHETS. There THEY WILL BE TORMENTED DAY and NIGHT FOREVER and EVER…And anyone whose name was not
        found recorded in the Book of Life was thrown into the lake of fire.” (Revelation 20:10, 15)

        KG, R E P E N T !!!

        • KG

          Matthew 7:21-23
          King James Version (KJV)
          21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
          22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? (That includes you Alondra)
          23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

          He’s actually talking about the people like yourself who claim Christ yet deny his Power to forgive sin. You would have us all convinced that Salvation was earned through good works or pious behavior.

          John 10:27-29
          King James Version (KJV)
          27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
          28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
          29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.

          When I was 12 years old, I confessed Jesus as my savior and was baptized in a southern baptist church in rural Louisiana. I am now 47 years old and haven’t darkened the door of a church in many years. Mostly due to the discovery of what the “Southern” meant in Southern Baptist. As well as the ‘blab it and grab it’ kind of pseudo Christians that seem to have exploded all over. I do what Christ told us to do:

          Matthew 6:6
          King James Version (KJV)
          6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

          I’m not trying to ‘convert’ you or try to force you to believe in anything. I’m just showing you that the power of Christ is in many different forms. I believe that there are many people who say they are Christians but will suffer the same fate as the Rich man in the story of Lazarus. And yet, I believe their will be people who have never heard the name Jesus and will be in paradise with him. The sign of a true Christian is a broken heart.

  • Vis Fac

    If you can’t dazzle em with brilliance baffle em with BS Standard one dimensional liberal idiot-ology adopted by the greens. I would suspect a minimum of 99.9% of greens are liberal.

    What we have here is simply weather which has occurred since the beginning of time. I would wager all that I have that there isn’t a green or global warming proponent who has been around to record all these climate changes and can attest to this so called “global warming” phenomenon! The rest is pure conjecture and BS!! Again “facts” pulled out of thin air to garner financial support taken from the tax payers.

    Libertas inaestimabilis res est
    Semper-Fi

    • Vis Fac

      I don’t recall flushing twice asking for any comment from you DUMB DAVE. Now close the lid of your cesspool and go back to sleep!

      Libertas inaestimabilis res est
      Semper-Fi

      • Vis Fac

        And I suppose you think what you say has merit? At one time I thought you to be a realist but further reading of your post below indicates otherwise. which shall edit in a minute. You sounded like you were rather level headed and aware but I was wrong you are merely obtuse.

        Libertas inaestimabilis res est
        Semper-Fi

        • S.C.Murf

          I highly doubt that davie cause you keep replying on this site

          • Vis Fac

            You should know as you are as extreme as one can be.DUMB DAVE

            Libertas inaestimabilis res est
            Semper-Fi

          • Nadzieja Batki

            Poor little Dave all offended because a human called O an Odumbo. Piece of advice to pass on to O, don’t want to be called Odumbo, don’t be one. It is nothing more complicated than that.

          • Nadzieja Batki

            You can’t keep your own lies to yourself straight. If we are as stupid as you claim we are then you cannot have a political debate or any other. There is no such thing as a one sided debate.
            You are failing to convince yourself and us that you are not afraid, you are hoping that since we are a people that can survive we will take pity on you and protect you as well. We may not.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Don’t you have an International Sales Job to attend to, Shill Dave? Yeah, right.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            If you call showing the average reader how truly bereft you are of any kind of logic or knowledge — Smacking Around — then yes I guess you are.

        • Vis Fac

          Common sense describing a liberal is like seeing the sun as the moon and vice versa. Anyone who believes ODUMBO I’ll say it again ODUMBO can print fiat money run up a huge debt kill off jobs enroll more on welfare and food stamps usurps OUR constitution then still believes these activities aren’t disastrous is more than a few sandwiches shy of a picnic. and in no way rational or anything close to having common sense!!!

          Libertas inaestimabilis res est
          Semper-Fi

        • TheOriginalDaveH

          Then you must have Obama’s level of transparency, because I haven’t seen any of that “common sense” from you yet, Shill Dave.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            No, Shill Dave, I don’t “support” big money in the political process. I just recognize their right to Freedom, just as I recognize your right to Freedom. If push came to shove though, I would be in favor of censoring a known liar like yourself over somebody whose veracity I didn’t know.

  • Horace DeBussy Jones

    Putting aside all arguments about whether such a thing as man-made global warming exists, what the author describes here, the prosecution of leaders & people who do not believe in it, etc.. is absolutely frighteningly insane! It stems from the progressive elitist attitude that knows all & what is right & good for the world & all its inhabitants & if you do not get on board you will perish.

    • Vis Fac

      But this is what liberal one dimensional idiot-ology is all about. Making rules as you go and the absolution of all opposition. Progressives preach tolerance yet are woefully shy on practicing it hypocrisy at its best. And yes it is frighting

      Libertas inaestimabilis res est
      Semper-Fi

      • NO PRO HOMO AGENDA

        That is what one sees in the Pro-Homo movement: railing about intolerance, yet being the most intolerant of those who disagree!

    • Karolyn

      Your name brings back memories. I wonder how many remember that name? It’s been a looooong time!

      • Horace DeBussy Jones

        Horace DeBussy Jones AKA “Satch” of the Bowery Boys, played by actor, Huntz Hall, a comedic genius!!!

        Satch for prez in 2016

        • Karolyn

          Those were the days, watching the Bowery Boys every Saturday.

          • JeffH

            Great days of our youth…along with Rin-Tin-Tin, Roy Rogers, Sky King, the 3 Stooges, Fury…the list is too long.

            Do you remember Andy Devine, host of “Andy’s Gang” saying “Plunk your Magic Twanger, Froggy!” and Froggy’s “Hiya, kids, hiya, hiya!!”?
            I vaguely remember a cat too??? Midnite the cat?

            I believe the show was sponsored by Buster Brown Shoes…”That’s my dog Tige, he lives in a shoe;
            I’m Buster Brown, look for me in there, too!”

  • rendarsmith

    This was really well-written John. Good stuff.

    • John Myers

      Thanks so much rendarsmith,
      Thanks to all of you for your comments, even those of you that disagree.
      Best,
      John Myers

  • TML
  • TheOriginalDaveH

    The only way to discover, if there are indeed more economical alternative energies, is to get Government out of the equation. As long as Government is involved, we will have a complex web of Favoritism which will obscure the real costs of any particular technology.
    I’m all for Alternative Energy, but it has to be something that consumers are willing to voluntarily pay for. Get the Government out of our Marketplaces. Restore this country to Prosperity.

    • flashy

      Sure DaveH. And we can charge for pollution of The Commons since that carries a cost as well … one that oil and coal prefer to not pay for. As a “libertarian”, you’d support having to pay for use and pollution of The Commons …. right ? Then economic costs will be accurately gauged..

      • TheOriginalDaveH

        Pollution would indeed be litigated in a Libertarian Society — by the courts, not by Crony Capitalist protecting bureaucrats.
        And those costs would be borne by the actual producers and factored into the price of our energy. We would then know, as accurately as possible, what the real costs are, since they would not be protected by the Crony Politicians and hidden by convoluted Government Spending.

  • hungry4food

    John Meyers have you seen this ????

    Former World Bank Lawyer Karen
    Hudes Predicts Lawlessness when U S Dollar Loses International Currency Status

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58ayjFKRQ2A

  • macgyver1948

    Dave… Yep, the poisons soot coming out of industrial and home chimneys and also car’s exhausts, for just a few since the industrial revolution began, will add to layers of harder to breathe air for us and some warming trends. It all goes into the mix when it comes to temps and freshness in our air. It’s just funny how industrialists and big oil execs will deny the obvious and their puppet politician, as well as like minded reporters, will mouth the words put into them. New variables always affect old “normal” trends and only idiots deny them. Ice shrinkage and growth will be affected by all kinds of variables, both new and old standard ones. Since the Industrial Revolution we have new normal trends that will be affected and adjusted as the weather changes.

    I do think what this music teacher is rambling about is funny at worst.
    Thank God he is not a real scientist and also one who does not work
    for the Oil Industry, no telling how those guys will react as told by
    their employers. LOL.

    • BALONEY TONEY MAHONEY

      Still don’t get it, Mac….

      • macgyver1948

        Oh wow it’s Toney phony BALONEY. Hows it going guy but it isn’t me who is without getting it or without compassion either. You never change. Let’s hurt the majority of the little guys, who really cares about them anyway, just so we Right guys can keep the Plutocracy rising and prospering. Go get ‘em Toney. By the way Toney, if you do not see poison coming out of
        chimneys and exhaust pipes why don’t you press your lips up against a car’s working exhaust pipe and take it all in? Or sit on the top of an Industrial chimney and enjoy the exhaust? Over the years accumulations take their toll(s) on us, just like the pollutants to the environment from pipelines and fracking. Are you one of those who also sees no harm from tobacco to direct and and those affected by second hand exposures too? LOL.

        Just for fun tell me some things Toney. Why should I get it the Right’s way when their side’s ways support those who will shut the government down? And if that hostage situation does happen, many millions of Americans will
        greatly suffer and may never recover. It will be so hard for so many to come back from being deprived of SSI even for a little while. Do you know what landlords do when they do not get their rent long enough by their definition? SSI is money earned while working all
        those many years (in case you didn’t know) their money not charity-not handouts-not Welfare. And if they need to get to a doctor or ER many will not have med insurance to pay even though many of them pay a monthly premiums. Will the doctors and the ER rooms handle all that free patient care if SSI is closed down? Anyone see the Domestic enemies here who are hurting the retired and those depending on getting what is due them? In other words, so many will get so very hurt if they are denied what is theirs from Uncle Sam, their earned stuff..

        How will the grocery stores react if SSI recipients, well no longer for now, go for food but have no money because SSI isn’t coming? And, how will the military feel about doing their jobs if they do not get
        paid? That last part is one way people such as Al-qaeda will love the Tea Party and the GO(Corporate)P. I say all in Government who
        supports and/or votes to shut the down the government, and it happens, are guilty of treason and should be federally arrested and tried for treason. There are other agencies that will be affected but
        what does you side care if people starve or become homeless and lose needed services (not the unworthy and undeserved free-bees) in huge numbers too? Oh, and why should I get it your side’s ways when they
        prove time and time again they are in it pretty exclusively for the very wealthy and the big corporations even at our expense in so much
        of what they do? All this and more is why I feel the Right is the greater evil. That was fun, :-).

        Even threatening these shutdowns, again and again, but not going through with it shows the threaten-ers are so apathetic toward “We The People”, they scare us as we see what the potential results will do, ssuming our eyes are open to reality. Who are they really in business for, these elected in Congress on your side? If they do this they won’t be hurt by it themselves (so why would they care for themselves?) but they wont care about hurting us as long as Obama is
        hurt. Who really isn’t getting it Toney?

        I missed you Toney so I was catching up a bit and having fun, :-). Enjoy your “harmless” exhaust breathing, LOL.

        By the way, how is your identical twin Elaine? :-)

  • Jeff

    The world’s a big place, and I’m sure you can always find an anomaly you can use to argue against undeniable trends.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-09-05/ice-melting-faster-in-greenland-and-antarctica-in-un-leak.html
    If we continue to burn fossil fuels, no good will come of it. The electric car is not a panacea as we will need more electricity, much of which will come from fossil fuels. However, it’s far more likely that over the next decade or two we’ll produce more electricity from alternative sources and that even the coal that’s burned for electricity will be burned in a “clean” manner if it’s done at a huge power plant than with each car burning fossil fuels. Electric cars should be a major step in the right direction.

    • TheOriginalDaveH

      Former Electric-car Engineer: Electric Cars Pollute More Than Gas
      http://www.thenewamerican.com/tech/environment/item/15971-former-electric-car-engineer-electric-cars-pollute-more-than-gas
      Lord, please deliver us from ignorant Liberal Progressives.

      • TheOriginalDaveH

        Shill Dave, your ignorance is appalling. It takes energy to build the parts for and set up wind towers. If they were cost-effective there would be no need for Government subsidies or Government forcing Utilities to buy the energy from the wind-farms. A similar situation exists for Solar generation.
        If an Alternative Energy is cost-effective, it will succeed in Free Markets. But so far they aren’t, so Government must give Shill Dave’s Crony Capitalists special protections at the expense of their competitors, their consumers, and the taxpayers.

        • KG

          In southern California, where i am familiar with the push for Solar, the state of California was offering to defer your cost of a photovoltaic power system. It started at like 75% to be an incentive for people to instal PV systems. Right now, I think it’s at like 40-50% of cost of installation. It was fun to install systems because we would hook up a KW meter and watch it run backward due to the sun’s energy feeding back to the power company.

          The only drawback many people seemed concerned about was the fact that the Power company was in control of your array. Mostly for safety reasons, but also to manage loads to prevent possible overloads.

          Is actually kinda sad because the majority of PV panels are made in China. If America could somehow keep all of the solar manufacturing in America, Solar would be a boon to everybody.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Except the taxpayers.

          • KG

            I do not identify myself as a ‘taxpayer’. Nor do I consider myself a ‘consumer’. I consider myself a Citizen. And with citizenship comes responsibility. We have a Statue of Liberty on the east coast to remind us of the freedoms we have as Americans. But we could uses a statue of responsibility to remind us that with freedom comes responsibility.

            People like you, Rothbard, Von Misies, Ayn Rand and other deluded ‘libertarian’ types what all of this freedom, but feel no responsibility or obligation to the people and the system which allows you such freedom.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            KGB says — “People like you, Rothbard, Von Misies, Ayn Rand and other deluded ‘libertarian’ types what all of this freedom, but feel no responsibility or obligation to the people and the system which allows you such freedom”.
            People don’t “allow” Freedom. They can only “take” Freedom away from others. But imagine that, a guy who believes in taking property from others against their will, and yet posturing as if he’s the good guy.
            In a Free Society, you can help people all you want, but you can’t take from them unless they freely allow you to do that.
            You are the aggressor, KGB, so don’t pretend otherwise.

        • TheOriginalDaveH

          More useless conjecture from the useless Shill Dave.
          Railroads did not need Government. They used Government, which used the Taxpayers, like Shill Dave wants to do.
          Some reality:
          http://mises.org/daily/2317

          Is it any wonder you have no credibility on this board, Shill Dave?

      • Jeff

        That’s interesting, but there are other informed points of view.

        http://ezinearticles.com/?Electric-Car-Pollution-Facts&id=2461833

        Not being an engineer, I can’t comment on the technical issues, but it seems to me if a vehicle gets the equivalent of 100 miles to the gallon, it figures to be cleaner than one getting 30. I can’t help but believe we will see breakthroughs in the production of electricity over the next generation. I’m looking at the Nissan Leaf right now as a way to avoid paying $4-$6 a gallon. I hope it also helps the environment, but that may be illusory.

      • Bob666

        Interesting article Dave,
        But it misses some very valid points. Electric cars are far more efficient for a multitude of reasons than internal combustion engine powered vehicles.

        There are two areas that you piece missed by a mile. First, with electric cars-all success is based on the battery and it’s ability to store energy. Your piece is correct that batteries contain multiple heavy metals and compounds that are not environmentally friendly, but battery technology has come a long way and will continue to advance to reduce size, weight and storage/life cycle limitations.

        Finally, just as it applies to macro & micro economics, Economy of Scale also applies to the production of energy. A valid and accurate comparison would be freight moved by train in the consumption of energy per ton verses a fleet of tractor-trailers moving the equivalent weight of freight. The train consumes 1/10th of the diesel fuel per ton of freight moved because one very large diesel engine consumes less fuel to produce the same energy as twenty-five individual tractor-trucks.

        While I do not believe that electric cars will replace cars with conventional gas combustion engines, they will continue to gain a larger market share as the technology improves and the cost comes down. I can also tell you from personal experience that for many people, they can be very practical automotive option as we have our second Toyota Prius. But I must also admit that I have two vehicles with diesel engines and they offer advantages that electric & hybrids can’t offer.

        • TheOriginalDaveH

          Bob says — “There are two areas that you piece missed by a mile”.
          On your first contention, Bob — future technology is a non sequitur. The author was talking about the here and now.
          Your second contention is conjecture only. Show me a rigorous analysis that supports your “economy of scale” as applied to engines. The efficiency of Trains has nothing to do with the size of their engines and everything to do with less friction and fewer fuel-wasting stops.
          If you’re talking about centralizing the production of the electricity, then you must address transmission losses and costs, and possibly other factors of which I am currently unaware.
          We could jawbone all day long, but the proof would be in Free Markets. If indeed a technology is desirable, then people will buy it voluntarily. Government only steps in when people don’t desire a product enough to pay for it themselves.

          • Bob666

            Well Dave,

            While my degree is in civil engineering, My firm has done work on power grids and you are correct that “slippage” (loss in transmission) does occur in the transmission of power. I will try to dig up the proof/benefits in “economy of scale” as it applies towards power production, but this is common knowledge in electrical engineering.

            I might also add that plug-in electric vehicles can get their energy from a diverse group of sources and that also adds to greater efficiency.

            As far as the free market and government verses but the proof would be in Free Markets, Toyota and Mercedes did not receive any government funding to the best of knowledge in producing the cars that we bought and own. The added benefit is; how many people kill themselves by driving the hybrid into a garage and leaving the engine running?

            I would also add that my firm has been involved in three solar farms and two wind farms. The return on investment is real and proven by a functional business models. Most of these projects are being financed by private money, is that not the free market at work?

          • Bob666
          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Bob says — “I might also add that plug-in electric vehicles can get their energy from a diverse group of sources and that also adds to greater efficiency”.
            The number of available sources has nothing to do with the efficiency of an electric vehicle.
            Solar farms and wind farms are cost effective only if you ignore Government subsidies and Government intervention (Forcing utilities to buy the energy).
            On the Free Market they would not be profitable.
            http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2012/01/04/the-real-costs-of-alternative-energy.aspx
            http://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/pa422.pdf
            http://www.cato.org/multimedia/daily-podcast/wind-solar-other-expensive-green-energies
            http://www.amazon.com/The-False-Promise-Green-Energy/dp/1935308416

          • Bob666

            Yo Dave,

            From your first link dated 2010: “Both sides have charts and statistics to damn the other side, but many cherry-pick data to make a compelling case that’s slightly less than honest’.

            From your second link dated 2002: “The most aggressive renewable energy development initiatives today continue to be undertaken by large multinational corporations. In the United States, Zond Energy Systems,owned by Enron Corporation (once the world’
            largest integrated national gas company with 1997 revenues of $20 billion), is the largest domestic wind turbine manufacturer and the only manufacturer of large-capacity turbines (those typically installed by electric generating companies).6 Likewise, 65 percent of the global market for photovoltaic cells (the key component of most solar power facilities) in 1999 was
            dominated by five large multinational corporations: British Petroleum, Kyocera, Sharp, Siemens, and Sanyo (in descending order of market share)”

            Most of your data is out-dated, green energy is like any other technology and continues to develop and become more efficient over time and economy of scale has also continued to bring the cost of wind and solar equipment down making green energy more cost competitive.

            Another important fact that you fail to take into account is that demand on fossil fuel continues to increase along with pricing pressures. As demand continues to increase, competitive marker forces become less of a barrier to green energy-that is a free market fact.

            I would imagine that your very same arguments were made in the early 1980s regarding the concept of a global information portal that has become the world wide wed-yet here we are today.

  • Carlos

    So far, the dream of solar and battery power are nothing more than pot smoke.
    After over a hundred years, battery operated cars are still nothing more than wishful thinking, they are not viable. The same can be said for solar and there’s nothing in the future to counter that. Neither are economical to use.

    We have ample energy that can be used. we have enough oil and coal to last us for the next two hundred years, if we haven’t managed hydrogen and nuclear within that time, why worry about it.
    The constant cry for green energy and the money poured into it . only keeps big oil in huge profits.

  • JeffH

    “the wise man learns from the mistakes of others, the fool has to learn from his own.” – Marita Noon

    Australians wake up from their long climate nightmare.

    Australia’s carbon tax has sunk the government which enacted huge subsidies for would-be “green” energy and a tax on CO2.

    Newly sworn in Prime Minister Tony Abbott has ABOLISHED his country’s Climate Change Ministry.

    Europeans grappling with the high cost of renewables subsidies, while the U.S. seeks to kill oil, coal and natural gas
    http://www.cfact.org/2013/09/16/aussie-abbott-set-to-axe-the-carbon-tax/#sthash.2ZjcaqK0.dpuf

    • TheOriginalDaveH

      Yay!

    • The Snarf

      That oil is being extracted on private property, and involves laws that the ‘greenies’ have not found a way to circumvent yet. Give it time, they will be trying.

      • JeffH

        BK, ignore the Ignoramus Dave47D…his comprehension abilities are just a notch below his overbearing stupidity.

    • Cashu

      Liberals can’t learn from anything but personal experience, Jeff. And when they do learn anything that way, it’s almost always because the lesson was very painful. The real reason for this liberal idiocy is because ideology is much more important to them than demonstrated facts are. They convince themselves they are so much brighter than the rest of us, so they must be always right in every situation, but if unassailable facts contradict their liberal philosophy and ideology, the facts must inevitably lose…

  • JeffH
    • http://www.rt.com Alondra

      Of cause there is NONE evidence that GW is caused by Homo Sapience, Jeff. Please do not confuse with the HomoSexuals.

      The “scientific” research report, which was published in May last year in Current Biology, suggests that “dinosaurs made a significant contribution to the greenhouse effect back then” and that they may have vanished thanks to their own gassiness.

      Study was conducted in the Liverpool John Moores University in England estimated that “about 570 MILLION TONS of methane came from dinosaurs” and thus thru FARTS and BURPS have contributed to the global warming and THEIR OWN EXTERMINATION.

      Can you imagine such Natural Disaster?

      By another words NONE of Dinosaurs would pass the emission test/ smell test. Please BLAME Dinosaurs for GW.

      So, Jeff, the conclusion is: The Homo Sapience should (urgently) stop to fart and burp (I am sorry, that weren’t my words – the scientists from the Liverpool) to avoid the Self-EXTERMINATION.

      • http://www.rt.com Alondra

        Dave, please stop to “fart”. Urgenly!!!
        Do not contribute to “the greenhouse effect”.

        Think about your children, even they are liberals.

        P.S. Dave, I do not smoke, do not drink, do not take any drugs and I am almost virgin.

        • Cashu

          Boy, there’s a whole chapter in that last sentence. It’s a good thing you allowed as how you’re “almost virgin.” Without that to hold on to, I couldn’t see any compelling reason for you to continue… (smile) …only kidding, my friend. You’re a force to reckon with… !

          Cashu

          =====================

          • http://www.rt.com Alondra

            Yeah, each one sees what he wants to see.
            But please keep in mind, I am not ONE of the 72 virgins.

            But I will reveal you one secret, I was told: there No 72 virgins left behind. Left only one – Helen Thomas. All others are LESBIANS.

            So do not blow up yourself by the false promises. :>)

          • Cashu

            Recently a friend convinced me that the 72 virgins waiting for the bloody faithful were 72 pissed off nuns with large wooden rulers, waiting to provide an eternity of Sister hell for the raghead dummies…

            Cashu

            ====================

          • Bob666

            Ouch!

          • http://www.rt.com Alondra

            But there is some problem – the “Sisters” are infidels.

          • Cashu

            All the more poetic justice, my dear. In Islam, women have no voice and no power, so the idea of 72 antagonistic muslim mamas is absurd, to say the least.

            But if you’re going to spend eternity flogged by the exact opposite of what you expected, why 72 seething Catholic Sisters doing what they’ve been so well trained to do during a lifetime of sadistic control is extremely fine irony…

            Cashu

            (Besides, the mental picture evoked by that idea is priceless… )

            ====================

          • http://www.rt.com Alondra

            So, you are telling that they (Helly Sisters) will convert mohammedians into Catholicism?

          • Cashu

            Only punishment – no conversion, Alondra. Muslims can’t be converted, methinks…

            Cashu

            =====================

          • http://www.rt.com Alondra
  • JeffH

    In the War on Coal, the Obama administration doesn’t do pinprick strikes.
    http://www.nationalreview.com/planet-gore/358414/war-coal-obama-doesnt-do-pinpricks-henry-payne
    ‘Obama said to ban new coal plants without carbon controls’ — ‘Would effectively outlaw construction of new power plants’

    1975: Obama Science Czar John Holdren Said Real Threat to USA Is Cheap Energy: ‘The U.S.is threatened far more by the hazards of too much energy, too soon, than by the hazards of too little energy, too late.’
    http://hauntingthelibrary.wordpress.com/2011/01/31/flashback-1975-holdren-says-real-threat-to-usa-is-cheap-energy/

    • Karolyn

      f you want to see what Big Coal is doing to people and to the mountains of WV, watch this. Of course, I doubt if you will watch it, but it is a very enlightening video.

      http://www.linktv.org/programs/the-last-mountain

      • JeffH

        West Virginia Office of Miners’ Health, Safety
        and Training – WEST VIRGINIA COAL MINING FACTS
        http://www.wvminesafety.org/wvcoalfacts.htm

        __________________________________________

        MORGANTOWN, West Virginia (Reuters) – The
        Environmental Protection Agency is due to unveil next week the first batch of regulations under President Barack Obama’s new climate action plan – a carbon emissions-rate standard for new fossil fuel power plants.

        If standards are as strict as the industry expects, it could be the death knell for new coal plant construction. The recent bankruptcy of Longview, a highly efficient West Virginia coal plant, is an example of the pressures already facing the
        industry. – By Valerie Volcovici | Thu Sep 12, 2013

      • Carlos

        Karolyn, What’s wrong with digging a big hole, all they have to do is let it fill up with water”walla” they have a big lake. Don’t we have a constant call for more water?

  • JeffH

    New study finds electric vehicles are the worst polluters in US, China, India
    http://www.climatedepot.com/2013/09/13/new-study-finds-electric-vehicles-are-the-worst-polluters-in-us-china-india/

  • Karolyn

    Just gotta get “Obama” in there, huh? “Greens” have been around since before Obama was born!

    • Nadzieja Batki

      And they have been as destructive as O so what is your point?

  • Cashu

    The only people more disgusting than the people who push this green BS are the low information people who believe it…

    Cashu

    ===================

  • http://www.rt.com Alondra

    After the biker rally/march now comes The GENERAL STRIKE of the National truckers. They declared the massive convoy to Washington D.C. on the weekend of October 11-13, 2013 to PROTEST CORRUPTION in the government.

    The National truckers asking the American people join them in solidarity by not shopping or engaging in any economic activity that benefits the government.
    No commerce on those days stock up on items that you will need. No banking no shopping no money transactions.

    It does not matter if a million or 50 roll through DC in this effort. Congress will listen to “We the People”, which we demand to remove Obama from office for the crimes of TREASON and MISDEMEANORS.

    We want Congressional hearing on Benghazi and Seal Team 6. Louis Learner [sic] put in jail. No amnesty, remove ALL Muslims in our government that do not
    uphold the Constitution. Remove Eric Holder from office for CRIMES AGAINST THE PEOPLE and the CONSTITUTION. Last but not least is Fuel prices.

    Truckers are asking the American people join them in solidarity by not shopping or engaging in any economic activity that benefits the government.

    Go to FaceBook and support them: https://www.facebook.com/truckerstoshutdownamerica

    Comment from FaceBook:
    “I would like to know where is said that the truckers are limited to strike only on
    trucking issues such as hours of service, detention time, coercion, congestion,
    driver pay, etc. Are they not American citizen first? How can the Truckers negotiate with a corrupt system? Obamacare is an un-Constitutional law that will affect every trucker and family as well as every American.

    “The President of the United States is linked to many unresolved scandals that have a direct effect on every American citizen including the Trucker. The President has dishonored his oath to uphold the Constitution of the United States of America and is arming the enemy which is High Treason and should be removed from office.

    “I am very happy to know that the American Trucker is very concerned about these issues and are willing to put it on the line to wake the American people and Congress up taking issue to DC in a convoy with no delivers for three days. After all it is their right as American citizen that happen to have very large trucks that are taking three days off.

    So, for some that cannot understand the reason for this strike or shut down, it is very simple. Impeaching the President of the United States is a good start at restoring the Constitution of the United States of America and its people by removing the problem. All the other scandals and issues will be resolved.”

    Please PASS IT ON.

    • KG

      If these truckers were really serious about changing Americas economic fortunes, they would all join the Teamsters. Most of these truckers are ‘independents’ meaning each is an individual corporation so as to evade as many taxes as they can. They are about as patriotic as those biker gangs that terrorized DC a couple of days ago.

      • http://www.rt.com Alondra

        KG, your Marxist theology gives me carsickness.
        You aren’t stupid “liberal” like others on this site, but you are EVIL.

        And this is worse. REPENT and turn 180 from your malevolent
        and vindictive course.

        The hate and bitterness are screaming out from your soul. Forgive and let it goooooooo!

        I stopped to read your posts. They are too poisonous.

        • macgyver1948

          LOL…

          • KG

            LOL! AFK! BRB!

        • KG

          Hebrews 4:12
          For the word of God (KG) is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

          • http://www.rt.com Alondra

            When U’re angry U got to think
            How life was unfair to U
            And U aren’t even yourself
            Because the pain of past affects U

            If only your hidden soul
            Could reveal itself
            And what U suffer in silence
            Could be released

            And you would see
            Just what a rogue are U
            How U feign an ecstasy (in your evilness)
            May God forgive U
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6w2AAHAWyI

            P.S. The hate and bitterness are screaming out from your soul. Forgive and let them goooooooo!

          • KG

            There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.
            — Ezekiel 23:20

          • http://www.rt.com Alondra

            C O N T E X T O M Y !!!

            Love suffers long and is kind;
            Love does not envy;
            Love does not parade itself,
            Is not puffed up;
            Does not behave rudely,
            Does not seek its OWN,
            Is not provoked, thinks no evil;
            Does not rejoice in iniquity,
            But rejoices in the truth;
            Bears all things, Believes all things,
            Hopes all things, endures all things.
            Love never fails.
            But whether there are prophecies, they will fail;
            Whether there are tongues, they will cease;
            Whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away.(1Corintians 13:4 – NKJV)

            Did you ever really LOVE someone in your life or just yourself? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ih3Z9myEnG8

          • KG
          • http://www.rt.com Alondra

            Awful, ugly, destructive and depressed.
            Recognition and rejection. Complete contradiction and insanity.

            Who said you need Religion? You don’t need to see scars? But SCARS are there.

            You do not need Satan to be your Master. And yes, you need Jesus Christ.

            Oh YES, you need to pray, because you are in total darkness and you need to see light. “what communion has light with darkness? 15 And what accord has Christ with Belial?”

            He declares he doesn’t need Jesus Christ, but he confesses he has depression.

            He announces he doesn’t need exorcism, by which he admits he has demons inside. And that psychopathic ugliness you like. No wander she left you.

            LIBERTAÇÃO – LIBERACION – LIBERATION
            Liberate your soul from hate
            Destroy all old borders, and start new life.
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYBmnqr7HBY

          • KG

            WOW ALONDRA! I think you actually watched the video of my favorite english heavy metal band Motorhead! Awesome! You know, you could come over and we could drink a couple of 40 ouncers and smoke some doobie? Ya know cankers turn me on!

          • http://www.rt.com Alondra

            1) Thanks for spelling my name correctly.

            2) You think right. I actually watched from the beginning to the end.

            What is “Awesome!”? It’s so “heavily” Awful, ugly, destructive and depressed and this is your “favorite” band. It just proved my suggestion/idea about you.

            3) I don’t smoke and do not drink, even I am not pregnant.

            “[W]hat communion has light with darkness? 15 And what accord has Christ with Belial?”

            Why would not you invite Karolyn? Your ideology, theology and viewpoints are the same

            4) You wrote: “Ya know cankers turn me on!”

            Please clarify: I am “canker” or your “favorite heavy metal band” or you are talking in general?

            THE ROAD TO HELL http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwdpMwHE2ag
            Heaven http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKVJUocwMF4

          • KG

            When you have syphilis, little sores develop on your private parts, They are called ‘cankers’. It was a joke, really!

            I didn’t realize that you were so cool! I don’t know Karolyn, but you could invite her over too.

            Making love is a lot like a party – the more the merrier!

            xoxoxoxo

          • http://www.rt.com Alondra

            So you are familiar with syphilis.
            Well, up here we came. Continue to masturbate your vulgarity and evilness. I leave you with Karolyn. Two birds ……Have a good time. Just do not catch syphilis.

          • Brevity is the soul of wit

            Yo KG
            ROTFLMAO!

            Would that be like burning one with the Church Lady???

            Isn’t that Special!

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWHOIowtzXA

      • Robert Messmer

        Sole proprietorship would be the way to go since most states have Corporate Income Tax which means the Corporate income would be taxed, And then the salary of the driver would be subject to Individual income tax so in essence would be paying taxes on the same income twice. Besides in most states you have to submit Articles of Incorporation paperwork and its not free. As far as using that as a reference as to their patriotism, the SCOTUS has ruled that there is no reason why anyone should pay more income tax than legally required. “Biker gangs that terrorized DC” oh my! But I don’t recall much (any) coverage of DC being terrorized.

  • Cashu

    I’m all for green energy. I’m no fan of big oil. But I don’t begrudge oilmen for making as much hay as they can. I DO hold them guilty of stifling any real competition from other energy competitors. But that’s business, and I understand it.

    Where I’m coming from is a yearning to divorce our need from Mideast Oil. I want to see those damned ragheads be forced to drink their oil because they can’t sell it to stupid infidels any longer. I want to see the deserts of the mideast return to caravans, oasis’s and long distance camels. I want to see those murderous bastards broke and sh*tty handed once again. I want to see their extreme seventh century influence in the world ended once and for all.

    And, in my opinion, the optimum way to do it is through hydrogen fuel cell technology. Not only is it completely clean and green once you allow for the fossil fuel necessary to produce it (even that is relatively benign, as natural gas will do the job nicely), but it can produce efficient, abundant fuel for use as a household energy system, as well as a vehicle fuel. A hydrogen accumulator can be set up to produce plenty of energy for a family’s needs, produced at point of consumption on private property.

    This technology also has one more important benefit and advantage. It is produced at point of consumption PRIVATELY, without any control or interference by any governmental entity. No longer is the consumer at the mercy of market fluctuations OR government predation.

    Now I know hydrogen is not considered practical as of yet. And I don’t hold my breath that it will be anytime soon BECAUSE the government and big oil don’t want it for disparate and easily identified reasons. Oil doesn’t want to see it happen because it means the end of a century-long gravy train for them and government doesn’t want it because it can’t be regulated or controlled easily or logically.

    But I continue to hope for an irresistible breakthrough with this technology. It would solve nearly every energy problem the world deals with today…

    Cashu

    ======================

    • Bob666

      Yo Cashu,
      Very Well stated-I completely agree with your statement.

      • Cashu

        Theng gyu veddy much, Sir. I’ve been on the hydrogen kick for a long time…

        Cashu

        =================

        • Guest

          Yo Chshu,
          There have been some great advancements to make Hydrogen a practical energy source, but like electric cars-the limitations are in the fuel-cell and how much energy can be stored. Hydrogen brings another problem in the containment and life expectancy of the tank with the material the tanks are made of.

          I have faith that science will solve that problem in my life time and provide an alternate fuel that will kick foreign oil sources in the private parts.

          • Cashu

            From your lips to God’s ear, Puff. I’m aware of most of the limitations of the technology, but the most daunting of the hold-ups is the cost of the fuel used to generate hydrogen.

            I think that American ingenuity and know-how will, in short order, overcome most of the mechanical obstacles, especially if it can get off the ground and be somewhat self-sustaining.

            And now, with the reality of fracking on a large scale, the cost of natural gas is plummeting in America. With a little luck, we may soon be able to say it is off the ground and flying. At that point, I feel certain those other glitches will melt away very quickly.

            If you think of the history of the internal combustion engine, and you take a walk through any of the county fairs in fly-over country, you’ll be amazed at the innovative progress made from the centrifugal ignition work engines of the first few decades, best represented by the maytag engine, to what we take for granted today. I expect HFC to eclipse that record…

            Cashu

            ======================

      • macgyver1948

        Hi Bob666… Still having fun? :-) When is the trip?

        • Brevity is the soul of wit

          Yo Mac,
          Going to take the week before and the week of thanksgiving. I am trying to figure out how to do a small bird in my boats oven.

          Don’t Jews soak their Turkeys in salt? what if I just threw it overboard like a fish on a line while we cruse?

          I figure the weather will be cooler, but the gulf stream will still be warm, that is the plan for now.

          • Robert Messmer

            Have the feeling that when you pulled the line back in, there would be no bird still on the line.

          • Brevity is the soul of wit

            Well Robert,
            A 12 lb dry bird for a maybe 30 lb grouper?

            Maybe we have found a new use for turkey?

          • Robert Messmer

            Sounds like a good trade but don’t know about all the fishing regulations…..if you don’t get caught then it is automatically legal.

          • macgyver1948

            Bob666…. LOL. Yeah, give that a try, throwing the bird into salt water, LOL.Part of the over all Koshering process after we buy for home is to salt meats. I have to watch my salt intake but that is the process. When I was in basic training I was in southern Texas during the heat of summer. Every day we had to take salt tablets so I guess everyone there was Koshered, LOL. Robert Messmer could be right and when you pull your line back in. Those fishes aren’t our common house hold gold fish pets there, LOL.

            It sounds like a great trip. Just be careful the Gulf Stream doesn’t take you into the “Triangle”. You could either gain time or just disappear, lol :-). Enjoy all you can.

            דרך צלחה ובטוחה שיש לי מהנה, וכשר (שפירושו
            “נקי”) טיול, which simply translated means “Bonn voyage and have an enjoyable safe, and Kosher (which means “clean or to clean”) trip. :-).

    • wandamurline

      Problem is that water is the main fuel here…we are already looking at water shortages around the world and humans cannot live without water to drink.

  • Robert Messmer

    I have no complaints with “green” energy. What my complaint is that since eventually private companies are going to get very, very rich off of it, why is the government putting taxpayer money in the pot? The claim I hear is that private companies won’t develop “green” energy until there is more of a market for it. So how much taxpayer money went to Wilbur and Orville? There was not only not a market for airplanes, there was open hostility to the very idea that anyone thought people could or should fly. Bell invented the phone with private backing, no handouts from the government. After inventing it (ok maybe technically he did or didn’t, but he is generally given credit) then he had to go and drum up a market. If we, since we are the government, are going to pay for it then we should own it and we should get the energy for free.

    • wandamurline

      I have complaints about green energy. A big “bio” energy plant was built in my city…was put on line until they got the 32 million dollars from the government and then it was shut down….the reason “they could not compete with natural gas.” So 32 million was wasted there. Then only 50 miles away, another bio plant was put in. In case you do not know what bio plant is….we live in an area where trees are a big part of our economy…the bio plant was supposed to take the left over from logging and compress them into pellets to use as fuel. Anyways, this other plant had a contract with a large city….got on line, lost the contract and there went another tax payer’s 50 million dollars…it is shut down. As if that is not enough, they are building another one south of us about 80 miles and the same thing will happen. Green energy, even though it sounds great, simply cannot compete in the real world. Even green cars have to have natural gas or electricity to charge…so where are we saving?

      • independent thinker

        Sounds like those two companies need to be investigated and some people thrown in jail for fraud. The wood pellet business is a big deal and quite profitable. I live in a rural area between two small towns and there are at least half a dozen businesses selling wood pellet fuel in the area.

      • Robert Messmer

        Your complaint isn’t with all green energy just the local operation of 2 bio plants. Actually green energy has been competing in the real world for a very long time……..think hydroelectric. Once the plant is completed and on line, almost zero pollution and cheap electricity.

    • Bill

      Hi Robert,
      The only way green energy will be implemented is when it is cost effective. And the only way it will become cost effective is when the entrepreneurial spirit takes over, driven by the profit motive. However, the real motive of the green movement is to destroy capitalism, so with all the green regulations imposed on the private sector, it is hard to make a profit.
      It is a catch 22

  • Bentrim

    Please educate me as to a time when the climate stayed the same for millions of years. Seems to me the climate has varied since the beginning of the planet. Some times to extremes and some times slightly. A while back we were told to prepare for the coming ICE age. This latest “green event” has only been for —MONEY and CONTROL. Al made money from his book while he wasted energy at his home!! Many others have made LOTS of money from their “green” businesses. While taking that money from those that cannot afford it.
    It was interesting to learn just last week that ethanol when added to gasoline INCREASES pollution ( it creates more smog producing chemicals) from the tail pipe. While decreasing mileage. The addition of ethanol to gasoline has also caused havoc with boaters and small engines. An internet search provided the results.

    Have you heard anything of the ozone “hole” lately?? I haven’t, I guess they are happy now. Cheap refrigerants are gone replaced by expensive replacements.
    Yes I believe we should use the earth and its resources wisely. I do not believe we should follow the latest folly to be fleeced by all the money grubbers.

  • Kaypohchee

    I have only one question to the Global Warming mongers. They changed their battlecry to “Climate Change.” But they did not explain whether they had admitted if Global Warming was actually not happening, because Climate Change could also mean cooling. But so much had been spent on averting Global Warming. Isn’t it only honest to apologise for making the world chase its own tail and wasting so much money?

    I have only one question to the Climate Change mongers. They changed their battlecry to “Climate Effects.” But they did not clarify whether they had admitted that there was no Climate Change, because Climate Effects could also mean no Climate Change. Will the honest man in that camp please stand up? Will the United Nations compensate countries which acted on the Kyoto Protocol and other misplaced faith in the environmentalists?

  • wavesofgrain

    Follow the money trail. Note that Obm gave the Chicago Climate Exhange its start by funding out of Joyce foundation over a decade ago with Bill Ayers. Note that Goldman Sachs ex-bankers were included in running it, while Franklin Raines (the Fannie Mae head who received over 96 MIL in his 6 year reign) bought the patent to the Carbon Exchange Formula. Al Gore formed his own company GIM with a Sachs boy (Blood), and all these Carbon Tax Companies are registered in the Isle of Man (to AVOID US TAXES). Gore began his fearmongering Global Warming crusade to brainwash the public. (There is a Jarrett involved, as well as many other of the Dems)

    They all have been lying in wait for Obm to force feed the taxes on all our energy, which will be the greatest scam on the American people in history! The Liberal Dems will be able to control the world if our energy is at their mercy. Connect the dots, folks!!

  • carl_AF

    Those people that believe in the electric car are also the people that have enormous energy bills to heat and cool their massive homes, while my total electric consumption average for each month is less than 1,000 (739 monthly avg) KWhour. This is for electric only, no natural gas or oil is used in my home. All I can say is: Get off my butt about Global Warming.