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Empires Then And Now

April 3, 2012 by  

Empires Then And Now
UPI FILE
Marines conduct a security patrol in Sangin, Afghanistan.

Great empires, such as the Roman and British, were extractive. The empires succeeded because the value of the resources and wealth extracted from conquered lands exceeded the value of conquest and governance. The reason Rome did not extend its empire east into Germany was not the military prowess of Germanic tribes but Rome’s calculation that the cost of conquest exceeded the value of extractable resources.

The Roman Empire failed because Romans exhausted manpower and resources in civil wars fighting among themselves for power. The British empire failed because the British exhausted themselves fighting Germany in two world wars.

In his book The Rule of Empires (2010), Timothy H. Parsons replaces the myth of the civilizing empire with the truth of the extractive empire. He describes the successes of the Romans, the Umayyad Caliphate, the Spanish in Peru, Napoleon in Italy, and the British in India and Kenya in extracting resources. To lower the cost of governing Kenya, the British instigated tribal consciousness and invented tribal customs that worked to British advantage.

Parsons does not examine the American empire, but in his introduction to the book he wonders whether America’s empire is really an empire as the Americans don’t seem to get any extractive benefits from it. After eight years of war and attempted occupation of Iraq, all Washington has for its efforts is several trillion dollars of additional debt and no Iraqi oil. After 10 years of trillion-dollar struggle against the Taliban in Afghanistan, Washington has nothing to show for it except possibly some part of the drug trade that can be used to fund covert CIA operations.

America’s wars are very expensive. George W. Bush and Barack Obama have doubled the national debt, and the American people have no benefits from it. No riches, no bread and circuses flow to Americans from Washington’s wars. So what is it all about?

The answer is that Washington’s empire extracts resources from the American people for the benefit of the few powerful interest groups that rule America. The military-security complex, Wall Street, agribusiness and the Israel lobby use the government to extract resources from Americans to serve their profits and power. The U.S. Constitution has been extracted in the interests of the security state, and Americans’ incomes have been redirected to the pockets of the 1 percent. That is how the American empire functions.

The new empire is different. It happens without achieving conquest. The American military did not conquer Iraq and has been forced out politically by the puppet government that Washington established. There is no victory in Afghanistan, and the American military does not control the country after a decade of war.

In the new empire, success at war no longer matters. The extraction takes place by being at war. Huge sums of American taxpayers’ money have flowed into the American armaments industries and huge amounts of power into the Department of Homeland Security. The American empire works by stripping Americans of wealth and liberty.

This is why the wars cannot end and why if one does end, another starts. Remember when Obama came into office and was asked what the U.S. mission was in Afghanistan? He replied that he did not know what the mission was and that the mission needed to be defined.

Obama never defined the mission. He renewed the Afghan war without telling us its purpose. Obama cannot tell Americans that the purpose of the war is to build the power and profit of the military/security complex at the expense of American citizens.

This truth doesn’t mean that the objects of American military aggression have escaped without cost. Large numbers of Muslims have been bombed and murdered and their economies and infrastructure ruined, but not in order to extract resources from them.

It is ironic that under the new empire the citizens of the empire are extracted of their wealth and liberty in order to extract lives from the targeted foreign populations. Just like the bombed and murdered Muslims, the American people are victims of the American empire.

–Paul Craig Roberts

Paul Craig Roberts

was Assistant Secretary of the Treasury for Economic Policy and associate editor of The Wall Street Journal. He was columnist for Business Week, Scripps Howard News Service, and Creators Syndicate. He has had many university appointments. His Internet columns have attracted a worldwide following, and can be accessed here.

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  • cawmun cents

    Most wars are about control of resources.
    Afghanistan is no different.
    The Taliban wants control of Pakistans nuclear resources.
    We dont want them in control of those resources.End of story.
    Iraq was about cleaning up a mess that Dad had left.Bush 1′s mess needed to be rectified.
    Bush 2 tried to get it done.Then there are Iraq’s vast oil reserves,It;s proximity to Iran,which has many resources as well,,,,more resources to war over.End of story.
    This is not rocket science.You shouldnt have to ask Mr.Wizard to help you figure it out.
    It is basic bonehead history,a class which many evidently failed to take in school.
    Either that or your revisionist history teachers were too busy. indoctrinating you,to teach you common knowledge.But too much is made of too little,and the result is people try to second guess and create conspiracies to make them feel a certain way about war.
    Most wars are about control of resources.
    It may not necessarily be about OUR control of those resources,but often it is,whether directly or through diplomatic channels.
    Even a simpleton could reason this to be true.
    After all I did.
    Cheers!
    -CC.

    • eddie47d

      The Taliban are ethnic tribes trying to impose their religious will on the populace. I doubt if they care one iota about nuclear power. They would be extremely happy to live in small towns and mountain villages practicing their domination of their own people. They have little desire to move into the 22nd century or “loving the bomb”.

      • Tom W.

        Do you think that they would use such a weapon if they were to come into possession of one eddie?!! To espose their intolerant, misogynistic, savage, radical, backward world view?! You don’t think they might try something like that do ya eddie?!! Say explode a “dirty” bomb in some populus locale somewhere in the world?! Should we not be trying to prevent this? You’ve been listening to Flushdunce too long eddie!!! This is why isolationism will not work! This isn’t 100 yrs. ago when something that happens on the other side of the globe won’t have no immediate repercussions, this is a whole new day and age when the world has become so small that we MUST survail for threats to our GLOBAL survival!!! These ideological maniacs don’t care if they blow up this whole freakin’ planet eddie, and you act as if we’re stickin’ our noses in where they don’t belong! You’re an imbecile eddie!!!

      • DaveH

        At least that’s what the Propagandists have led you to fear, Tom.

      • Flashy

        Tom….I don’t believe I espoused at any time that the taliban would not use a nuke if they had access to one, nor any of the other comments you placed on my writings.

        Try again…

      • TML

        Tom W. says, “Do you think that they would use such a weapon if they were to come into possession of one… ?!!”

        Not necessarily, no. Pakistan, for example; a predominantly Muslim country, is arguably the most anti-American country in the Middle East, not part of the Non-Proliferation Treaty, have nuclear weapons, and yet still, no one has tried to blow up the world.

        There is no logical basis to assume that they would use such weapons. It is fear alone that makes one think otherwise.

        You are a Christian, Tom… and despise the Muslim, and seek to use fear of terrorism to drive us to preemptively/preventively attack and control them. You ignore the Christian doctrine of a Just war, and by so doing, justify the resistance of your opposition to defend themselves against oppression. And then if they were to attacked you (nuclear weapon or not) you would say, “Look what the evil Muslim did!”

        Stop supporting the war machine with your Crusader ideas, to hunt down cave dwelling terrorist boogeymen in country after country. Is that what Jesus would do?

        “Ceasing to deal with other nations with threats of violence is not isolationism, it is the opposite, opening ourselves up to friendship, honest trade and diplomacy is the foreign policy of peace and prosperity. It is the only foreign policy which will not bankrupt this nation as our current policy most definitely will, when all monetary tricks to fund it, are exhausted” – Ron Paul

      • Tom W.

        “Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me!!!” – Ancient Chinese proverb

        They’ve already demonstrated the willingness and the desire to use such a devise you four morons! It’s idiots like y’all that are the greatest threat that we face as a people!!! All the book smarts in the world with not one lick of good ole’ COMMON SENSE to go along with it!!! Which one of y’all is the pied piper leading this blind parade?!! It goes beyond reason that y’all could be blind to what is actually goin’ on and thus I accuse each and every one of ya of out right treason!!! Any last requests?

      • Flashy

        TML…your statement about Pakistan and the bomb. I would call your conclusion into doubt. To date, we have managed to kid track and control of those puppies. Whether we can in the future when the current regime passes to another, we can only hope. As can India.

        I read a dissertation a few years back where it cited a viewpoint which matched Machiavellian politics to the current world. Foreign policy as practiced today is a form of ‘Screw your neighbor”.

        China is going down for the count. It was obvious at least a year ago that China had shot its bolt and will be fortunate to take care of its growing internal economics without significant upheaval and unrest.

        India is another item altogether. We’d do well to watch out for India. She’s got the resources, the education, the labor force and the National unity which portends we’re going to get a run for our money from India in a decade or less.

        the question becomes, as India’s power and influence grows in the next few years, and if the inevitable regime change occurs in Pakistan in a few years and not give any breathing space…what the situation between those two will become, and where will we sit ?

      • Tom W.

        The only reason that Pakistan hasn’t done what you referred to is that we’ve borrowed billions, if not trillions, of dollars from China to give to the Pakistanis so that they could turn around and fund the Taliban fighting our troops in Afghanistan!!! They don’t have to do anything to us, we’re destroying ourselves!!! I’ll bet we’re the laughing stock of every tribal meeting they hold in either of those countries!!! It’s ALL fullfilment of Biblical prophecy! You four idiots are without excuse, but I’ll pray for ya anyway!!!

        John 16:2 (KJV)
        “They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.”

        Luke 22:36 (KJV)
        “Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.”

        One thing that just irks the sh!t out of me is when someone who has no WORLDLY idea what it means to be a Christian, tells me that I’m not acting very Christ like!!! Duh… Do you suppose that Jesus strolled into the Temple and said, “Say, what you chaps are doing here, isn’t quite lawful. Would you fine gentlemen be so kind as to take your tables elsewhere, after all this is a house of prayer.” Well do ya?! I’d have liked to have been there that day, I’ll bet Jesus was even using some somewhat colorful language!

        So stick to whatever it is that y’all do best, and by the way, what is that?!!

      • DaveH

        Tom says — “They’ve already demonstrated the willingness and the desire to use such a devise you four morons!”.
        Ahh yes, Tom has learned the art of adolescent manipulation from the Liberals.
        Who, Tom, is the only nation to have ever actually used a Nuclear Weapon against another country?
        Which nation, Tom, is second only to Russia in the amount of Nuclear Weapons stockpiled?
        Which nation, Tom, has more military bases in countries around the world than any other?
        Which nation, Tom, has been involved in more modern conflicts than any other?
        Now, tell me again who the aggressors are?

      • DaveH

        And let’s face it, Tom, you can quote scripture, but that seems to be about the extent of your religiosity. Where in the Ten Commandments does it say that “Thou shalt not kill, unless thou can create sufficient rationalization to do that killing”?
        You, Tom, are not much different than the Liberals who can rationalize stealing other peoples’ money.
        Here are people who share your contempt for life:
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rXPrfnU3G0

        What kind of “idiot” can justify killing other people who in no way have attacked him?

      • Tom W.

        In a somewhat unrelated to this story comment, I wanted to share an email that I recieved concerning the Health-care Bill that I know will interest a lot of people who frequent this site!

        What if it were your grandparents?!!

        I had one of the most troubling, most disturbing conversations with Dr. Suzanne Allen, head of emergency services at the Johnson City Medical Center in Tennessee. We were discussing the “future” and I asked her had she seen an affects of Obama Care in her work? “Oh, yes. We are seeing cutbacks throughout the services we provide. For example, we are now having to deal with patients who would normally receive dialysis can no longer be accepted. In the past, there was always automatic approval under Medicare for anyone who needed dialysis — not anymore.” So, what will be their outcome? “They will die soon without dialysis,” she stated. What about other services? She indicated as of 2013 (after the election), no one over 75 will be given major medical procedures unless approved by locally administered Ethics Panels. These Panels will determine whether a patient receives medical treatment or not. While details on specific operating procedures and schedules, Dr. Allen points out that most life-threatening emergencies do not occur during normal hospital business hours, and if there are emergencies that depend to be resolve within minutes or just few hours, the likely hood of getting these Panels approval in time to save a life are going to be very challenging and difficult, if not impossible she said.
        This applies to major operations such as receiving stents, bypass surgery, kidney operations, or treating for an aneurysm that would be normally covered under Medicare today. In other words, if you needed a life-saving operation, Medicare will not provide coverage anymore after 2013 if you are 75 or over. When in 2013? “We haven’t been given a specific date — could be in January or July — but it’s after the election.”
        This is shocking to any of us who will be 75 this year. Her advice — get healthy and stay healthy. We do not know the specifics of the actual implementation of the full Obama Care policies and procedures — “they haven’t filtered down to the local level yet. But we are already seeing severe cuts in what we provide to the elderly — we refused dialysis to an individual who was 78 just the other day, we refused to give stents to a gentleman who was in his late 80s.” Every day, she said, we are seeing these cutbacks aimed at reducing care across the board for anyone who is over 75.
        We can only hope that Obama Care will be overturned by the Supreme Court — otherwise, this is a death sentence to those who are over 75. Perhaps you should pass this on to your friends who are thinking of voting for Obama this year. Regardless if you have private health care coverage now (I have Aetna Medicare Part B) — it will no longer apply after 2013 if the Ethics Panels disapprove of a procedure that may save your life. Scary, scary, scary. Think about this? You? Your parents? Your loved ones? Didn’t know about it? Of course, not. As Nancy Pelosi said, “well, if you want to know what’s in the bill, you’ll have to pass it.” Two years after it was passed, most people still do not know fully what is in the bill. This is a graphic reminder of the need to stay healthy. Get your plot now at Forest Lawn, while they last. Is this a death sentence to those of us who will reach 75? Yes!

        PS: We have already been touched by this. The Feds would not allow a prescription to be filled back in December. This was a first for us. We had to pay for it out of our pockets. Thankfully we could do that. jane

      • Flashy

        What kind of “idiot” can justify killing other people who in no way have attacked him?<–DaveH

        I believe you might refer that question to Zimmerman

      • TML

        Tom W. says, “They’ve already demonstrated the willingness and the desire to use such a devise you four morons!”

        In what way have they demonstrated this?

        Tom W. says, “It’s idiots like y’all that are the greatest threat that we face as a people!!!”

        And I think it people such as yourself

        Tom W. says, “All the book smarts in the world with not one lick of good ole’ COMMON SENSE to go along with it!!!”

        I could say the same of you

        Tom W. says, “It goes beyond reason that y’all could be blind to what is actually goin’ on”

        With all your religious tripe, and you dare say I go beyond reason? Better wake up and realize that those who truly believe in truth, peace, liberty, and freedom are not the traitors. Truth is treason only in the empire of lies.

      • TML

        Flashy says, “TML…your statement about Pakistan and the bomb. I would call your conclusion into doubt.”

        Everything is doubtful… doubt is the beginning of wisdom. By doubting, we ask the question, and by seeking the answer, we come upon the truth.

        Flashy says, “To date, we have managed to kid track and control of those puppies.”

        Yet, they still managed to obtain nuclear weapons, so it does that premise immediately doesn’t hold up.

        Flashy says, “Whether we can in the future when the current regime passes to another, we can only hope. As can India.”

        Pakistan obtained them as defense/deterrent against India (who is also not a party to the Non-Proliferation Treaty). India publically states is will not attack unless attacked first, nuclear or not, and Pakistan concurs. This is what is defined as a just war, to attack only when attacked.

        Flashy says, “I read a dissertation a few years back where it cited a viewpoint which matched Machiavellian politics to the current world. Foreign policy as practiced today is a form of ‘Screw your neighbor”.

        Unfortunately, I agree that to be the case for America these days. A mentality we adopted after WWII…ever since, we have been going abroad in search of monsters to destroy, and by so doing, have become the monsters ourselves.

        Flashy says, “China is going down for the count. It was obvious at least a year ago that China had shot its bolt and will be fortunate to take care of its growing internal economics without significant upheaval and unrest.”

        No so sure about this one… China has been doing very well economically from what I understand.

      • TML

        Flashy says, “India is another item altogether. We’d do well to watch out for India. She’s got the resources, the education, the labor force and the National unity which portends we’re going to get a run for our money from India in a decade or less.
        the question becomes, as India’s power and influence grows in the next few years, and if the inevitable regime change occurs in Pakistan in a few years and not give any breathing space…what the situation between those two will become, and where will we sit ?”

        I guess that should be between them… I think mutually assured destruction will keep things in order.

        So… I reassert my claim. There is no logical basis to assume that they would use such weapons. It is fear alone that makes one think otherwise.

      • TML

        Tom W. says, “The only reason that Pakistan hasn’t done what you referred to is that we’ve borrowed billions, if not trillions, of dollars from China to give to the Pakistanis so that they could turn around and fund the Taliban fighting our troops in Afghanistan!!! They don’t have to do anything to us, we’re destroying ourselves!!! I’ll bet we’re the laughing stock of every tribal meeting they hold in either of those countries!!!”

        I highly doubt that is the only reason. And I’m quite sure, the only reason we are paying them off rather than topple thier government the same as others, is directly related to their possession of nuclear weapons.

        Tom W. says, “One thing that just irks the sh!t out of me is when someone who has no WORLDLY idea what it means to be a Christian, tells me that I’m not acting very Christ like!!!”

        Sorry, the truth can hurt sometimes

        Tom W. says, “Duh… Do you suppose that Jesus strolled into the Temple and said, “Say, what you chaps are doing here, isn’t quite lawful. Would you fine gentlemen be so kind as to take your tables elsewhere, after all this is a house of prayer.” Well do ya?!”

        So you are comparing Jesus toppling merchant tables in a church, to the United States toppling governments of foreign countries? Hardly a fair comparison, as one upholds his own house, the other does not.

      • TML

        Grr… I hate typos. Sorry. Correction:

        Flashy says, “To date, we have managed to kid track and control of those puppies.”

        Yet, they still managed to obtain nuclear weapons, so that premise immediately doesn’t hold up.

      • Flashy

        So… I reassert my claim. There is no logical basis to assume that they would use such weapons. It is fear alone that makes one think otherwise. <—TML

        I agree. Now, what war has ever been logical in its beginnings? I proffer it would have been logical that with our open society, a President would not, could not, fabricate "evidence' out of thin air, refuse claimed evidence to UN inspection teams, lie to the UN, its allies, and the world…and use the fabricated lies to garner political support for an armed aggression.

        It is the illogical acts which begin wars … not the logical acts.

      • eddie47d

        Dear Tom W. The Taliban doesn’t have the capabilities of harming anyone outside their sphere of influence. They don’t have the schooling,factories,technology and so forth to war against any other nation. There is nothing wrong with anger if you presented a rational thought with it.

      • Thor

        Which nation has this many nukes…has used the bomb….blah, blah, blah…and other than the US, DaveH, eddie47d, et al—which nation would you be comfortable replacing the US with in those top honors? What we are talking about here is dominance…and there ain’t no middle ground. Either we will dominate or someone else will. If you think there is an alternative, you are too naive to enter this discussion.

      • Ron Christopher

        Eddie I think you got it almost correct. The whole middle east is nothing but tribes with tribal leaders. They, the tribal leaders are the boss of their tribe and everybody obeys the tribal leader. That is one reason they will never have a united country under one leader. Now to the bomb. Even if they had a bomb, of any size, they would not use it. To do so would be to surrender their tribal leadership. However, they would use the bomb as a threat, much like other countries who have the bomb, Russia, North Korea, Pakistan. By a threat I mean money. For their not using the bomb (presently) they get paid with American dollars. According to law, this is what is referred to as “blackmail.”
        What America needs to do is reverse this trend by dropping a low yield bomb in one of their deserts just to show them what a bomb will do to them, and, that we would not be afraid to use it if necessary.
        And no, this was not taught in high school in the early 50s. Sorry, but I am 73 years old. Even today it is not taught. If anybody remembers what the threat of the bomb did in the mid 50s nobody wants to go back to the panic era.
        I do know this. We need to get the hell out of the middle east and let those folks kill off each other. That is what they have been doing for eons and that is what they will continue to do. They are stone age people refusing to come out of their caves. They have a fear in the hearts of advancement primarily because they do not want to advance, thus, surrendering their tribal standing.

      • TML

        Flashy says, “I agree. Now, what war has ever been logical in its beginnings?”

        In matters of war, the only thing objective is defense/self-preservation. Such logic doesn’t extend to motives of fear, or greed (envy/pride), which are subjective conclusions.

        Flashy says, “I proffer it would have been logical that with our open society, a President would not, could not, fabricate “evidence’ out of thin air, refuse claimed evidence to UN inspection teams, lie to the UN, its allies, and the world…and use the fabricated lies to garner political support for an armed aggression.”

        This statement presumes that we have an open society in which such proposed ‘evidence’ (which you did not include here) is sufficient to justifiably incite support, for preventive armed aggression.

        Flashy says, “It is the illogical acts which begin wars … not the logical acts”

        I agree; and I say, THAT… is what makes people fear so much… that they are willing to ‘sell their soul’ for a false sense of security by instigating said war, causing those which you transgress to defend themselves.

      • TML

        Thor says, “Which nation has this many nukes…has used the bomb….blah, blah, blah…and other than the US, DaveH, eddie47d, et al—which nation would you be comfortable replacing the US with in those top honors?”

        These are NOT “honors”

        Thor says, “What we are talking about here is dominance…and there ain’t no middle ground. Either we will dominate or someone else will. If you think there is an alternative, you are too naive to enter this discussion.”

        Ya know… I’ve seen that movie ‘Thor’ (really good message) you should pay closer attention to what the King in that movie is trying to teach his prideful son.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003309707389 Tom W.

        Hammertime Thor! BAM!!! Thanks for comin’ to the rescue Bro! Good lookin’ out!!!
        Ron, I think you HIGHLY underestimate your enemy Bro! Although most of the hi-jackers on 9/11 were Saudis, they were all Wahabists amd Taliban members under Osama, thus we’ve already been attacked by them you bunch of mental pantie weights!!!

      • TML

        Tom W. says, “Hammertime Thor! BAM!!! Thanks for comin’ to the rescue Bro! Good lookin’ out!!!
        Ron, I think you HIGHLY underestimate your enemy Bro! Although most of the hi-jackers on 9/11 were Saudis, they were all Wahabists amd Taliban members under Osama, thus we’ve already been attacked by them you bunch of mental pantie weights!!!”

        Yet, Osama Bin Laden is already dead, as you continue to whine what the evil Muslim did, in the face of your oppression since before 1953, while we sign legislation into law concerning the indefinite detention without charge or trial, even of American citizens, under the auspices of terrorism.

        You’re ignorance makes you insolent.

        Why not address me directly, Tom? Engage! :)

      • DaveH

        Thor says — “Either we will dominate or someone else will. If you think there is an alternative, you are too naive to enter this discussion”.
        Thor, if you think you are anything more than the immoral aggressor, you are too naive to waste my time with.

      • http://www.ifonlyphotos.com Alex Frazier

        Tom, you said, “One thing that just irks the sh!t out of me is when someone who has no WORLDLY idea what it means to be a Christian, tells me that I’m not acting very Christ like!!! Duh… Do you suppose that Jesus strolled into the Temple and said, “Say, what you chaps are doing here, isn’t quite lawful. Would you fine gentlemen be so kind as to take your tables elsewhere, after all this is a house of prayer.” Well do ya?! I’d have liked to have been there that day, I’ll bet Jesus was even using some somewhat colorful language!”

        What I can tell you about that situation is that Jesus called it his Father’s house. Whether he strolled, stomped, or skipped into the temple, he was coming into his own home and had the right to evict the evil doers.

        What Jesus did not do is burst into the home of the Roman Emperor and kick over the banquet tables, or berate the participants of an orgy.

        Let the wheat grow up with the tares. In the end it is the angels who are the reapers, when the tares will be gathered up and tossed into the furnace.

        You should really leave religion out of your politics. I’ve seen plenty of religious posts by you, and you don’t know much about what you’re talking about. I can see that you think you do, but you have little understanding of what Christianity is all about. You go around calling people names because they don’t agree with your warmongering point of view. Jesus never advocated war. In Christian terms (which is why you should leave religion out of this), what part of “turn the other cheek” involves preemptive attacks? Or do you just suppose that if we are struck on the cheek, we should turn to them the other so our eyes will be averted when our bomb blows them up?

        Dude, get real. You see it one way. Others see it another way. A difference of opinion doesn’t make you right. In fact, no one can say for sure who is right. All we can do is look at the evidence. To date, we are the only country in the world who has ever used nuclear weapons of any kind. Prior to our heavy involvement in the middle east, we never had scares of terrorist activity. Muslims didn’t start giving us trouble until the late 1970s, and it was after we provoked them with our presence. The muslim “terrorist” groups who hate us have plainly stated that it is because we are on their land. They have plainly told us that they attack us because we drop bombs on their cities and kill their women and children.

        I always find it ironic that one Muslim makes a single statement that is taken out of context and warped, and propaganda spinsters convince an entire nation that Iran wants to wipe Israel and America off the map. Yet when Muslim extremist groups tell us that they are fighting us because we are occupying their country, corrupting their religion, supporting their enemies, and killing their women and children … there’s just no way that can be true.

      • James

        I agree with Tom W. here. I would just add this (John 2:15): “And when he [Jesus] had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers’ money, and overthrew the tables.”

    • GALT

      Mr. Robert’s how very cynical of you……there was plenty more extraction being done,
      and WAR has BECOME the myth of civilization. Did we not SAVE Iraq from the terror of Saddam? Think of the career opportunities in the military, as well as one’s transition to the mercenary forces of Blackwater, now known as Xe? How about the profits one could have made with Halliburton, and the oil companies?

      Governments can no longer fight wars for extraction and armies are denied the usual stress relievers or raping, looting, pillaging and killing, which still happens, of course,
      but must be decried as tragic by those who gave the orders?

      But you are right, governments are no longer the beneficiaries of extraction, and mythology still rules. Invest wisely and profits abound.

    • Tom W.

      “It is not enough merely to realize how freedom has been won. Essential also is it we be ever alert to all threats to that freedom. Easy to recognize is the threat from without. Easy too is it to see the threat of those who advocate its destruction from within. Less easy is it to see the dangers that arise from our own failure to analyze and understand the implications of various economic, social and political movements among ourselves. Our danger arises from too great a concentration of power in the hands of any individual or group. The power of concentrated finance, the power of selfish pressure groups, the power of any class organized in opposition to the whole – any one of these, when allowed to dominate, is fully capable of destroying individual freedom, as is excessive power in the political head of the state,” – Dewight D. Eisenhower, Inaugural Address, Columbia University, Oct. 12, 1948
      I never had a clue as to how smart of a man Ike was until I read some of his speeches, quotes, and decissions! He saw all this crap comin’ way back before he ever got to the oval office! He also saw the threat the Military Industrial Complex posed to the whole of humanity, to his credit and his legacy, he endlessly and tirelessly warned and fought against it! Of all the technological advances we’ve made in the last 100 yrs., none compare to advances we’ve made in the way we war! The way we KILL each other!!! My! How far we’ve come! We can now fire a RPG up some mullah’s a$$ from a drone !0,000 ft. in the air, all from the air-conditioned comfort of a So. Cali control rm. while enjoying a hot, greasy ‘Jack ‘N’ the Box’ burger, fries, and a frosty shake! What we have today is the MIC on steroids! War is, was, and has become a trillion dollar industry!!! BIg business! Talk about the unholy alliance of greed and the lust for power!!! And now we’re seeing the implatation of measures to make anyone, domestic or foreign, who voice oppisition, open game to be silenced?!! In the Land of the Free, and the home of the Brave?!! Boy! I’ll bet Rush has had a hard time finding a playing partner for tee time here lately! WAKE UP AMERICA!!!
      We’ve already gone so far down this slippery slope, that I believe that turning back will be impossible without bloody confrontation! We are so close to the boiling point that I believe it will be astounding how small of a spark it will take to set the forrest ablaze!!! We are fast rushing towards the days that the Bible describes as being the most horrific ever experienced in human history!!! In the Old Testament or Hebrew Bible, the book of Jeramiah prophesies of the time of “Jacob’s trouble”, Jeremiah chap. 30, (Listen up all you history buffs!!!) a time when God would regather his chosen people, after a loooong dispersion, back into the land that He gave unto their forefathers, that there He would deal with them about their hardened unrepentive heart! (The rejection of the Messiah!) There He would remove their hearts of stone and give them a new heart of flesh! (Read Zac. chapters 12 thru 14!) Also known as the “Great Tribulation” (Rev. chapters 4 thru 18) the final seven years of human history precedeing the glorious Second Coming of our God and Savior Jesus Christ!!! (Rev. chapters 19 thru 22)
      Is your lamp trimmed and BURNING?!! (Matt. 25:1-13) Because if you’re not LOOKIN’ up, (Luke 21:28) you SURELY to GOD must be BLIND!!! (II Cor. 4:3&4) Surely you don’t want to be TOLD to go line up with the goats!!! (Matt. 25:31-46) Keep yo eyes on da skies, JESUS IS COMIN’! He loves y’all and so do I!!!
      Do you know Him as your personal Lord and Savior?!! If not would ya like to? It’s as easy as simply bowing your head right where you’re at and sincerely praying this prayer;
      Lord, I believe that Jesus is the Son of God. I believe that He came and died to pay the penalty for the sins that I have committed. I ask You to forgive me, and to give me the gift of eternal life You promised. Come into my life, and cause me to be born again. Amen.
      If you prayed that prayer and meant it with your entire heart, know that He did come into your heart and now you’re ready for whatever this ole’ world has to throw at ya!!! Hallelujah!

      “This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasure more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.” – II Tim. 3:1-5

      Folks, I challange you to find a better description of the human race today ANYWHERE!!!

      Luke 21:28 (KJV)
      “And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.”

      • Tom W.

        Wasn’t that easy?! It’s sooo easy that most people simply can’t handle it’s Holy simplicity!!!

        “All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him. Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.” – Matt. 11:27-30 (KJV)

      • Karolyn

        Tom: ““This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasure more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.” – II Tim. 3:1-5″

        This has described the human race since the beginning. The only reason it seems more prevalent now is because there are more of us and we hear about everything due to the internet.

      • Kate8

        karolyn – Yes, humanity has always been plagued with these things. But when you take all prophecies in context, there were signs that had to appear along with these things, indicating that the Last Days are upon us.

        These signs have been largely fulfilled. The increase in knowledge and technology are one of the signs. Never before have the controllers had the ability to enslave the entire world technologically, nor to wreak so much destruction in one fell swoop. Nor to create massive illusion that the masses would accept as real.

        The difference today is that man has the capablility of destroying the entire planet and all life that dwells upon it. In fact, this agenda is well advanced already.

        The Bible is not the only source for these ancient prophecies, as I am sure you know. They show up in most all ancient texts, described according to the cultural beliefs of the time and place.

        The Bhahagavad Gita and the Upanishads describe nuclear war and destruction from an earlier time, and foreshadow such holocaust will occur again.

        “There is nothing new under the sun.”

      • Flashy

        Kate8…if the ‘signs” indicate the last days are here pursuant to some “reading” or ‘understanding” of a book of fiction (Bible), please tell us how these dark prophesies differ from those made by Peter the Hermit and several others during the years of the Plague and Crusades through to modern times.

        Thanks. I’m looking forward to the clarification on why these prophecies differ in accuracy than past ones made…with the same assurances given by the “prophets” then as now.

      • Tom W.

        Very astute observation Kate8! Flushdunce you won’t be strokin’ in the Lake of Fire, you’ll be smokin’!!! Turn or burn! Let’s pray that God would open Karolyn’s eyes Kate8, because she is still obviously still blinded (As is the Flushdunce!) by the god of this world! (II Cor. 4:4) The MAIN sign was the regathering of His chosen people back to the Holy Land! It was this event, the rebirth of the nation of Israel on May 14th 1948, that marked the beginning of what the Bible calls the “Last Days”! This is the first time in human history that ALL these signs, the rebirth of Israel, the man-made political, social, and ethnic turmoil engulfing our globe, the general amorality of mankind, the unrelenting natural disasters that have been plaguing our planet with more and more intensity and frequency, (Kinda like birthpangs huh?!!) have all been happening at the same time!!! All nation’s coming together against God’s chosen people! (Joel 3:2) Now pray tell, what do you suppose the odds of ALL these things happening at the same time are?!! Astronomical?!!! I suppose Karolyn you might be one of these idiots who claim that all these things are being orchestrated by those evil Zionists to fool the world that the Messiah is getting ready to be revealed!!! What a time to be a Born Again Christian!!! Just watching the news can make ya break out with duck-bumps on your goose-pimples! (Thank you Dr. Van Impe!) GLORY HALLELUJAH!!! Come on aboard Karolyn, the seas are always as smooth as glass!!!

        “All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him. Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.” – Matt. 11:27-30 (KJV)

        The Ten Reasons We Should be Looking for Christ’s Return

        1. Increased knowledge. – Dan. 12:4
        2. Invention of nuclear warfare. – Ezek. 39:6-16, Joel 2:20, Zec. 14:12, Rev. 6:12-14, 8:7
        3. Rebirth of the nation of Israel. – Deut. 30:1-3, Isaiah 4:2, 11:10-12, 66:8, Ezek. 37:21, Joel 3:2, Amos 9:14&15
        4. Scoffers. – II Peter 3:3-7
        5. Jerusalem in Jewish control. – Zec. 12:2, Luke 21:24
        6. Russian Jew’s “Aliyah” or return to the Holy Land. – Jer. 23:7&8
        7. 24/7 realtime worldwide televised news. – Rev. 11:9&10
        8. Deception. – Matt. 24:4&5
        9. Famines, pestilences, earthquakes. – Matt. 24:7
        10. Horrific violence. – Matt. 24:37-39, Gen. 6:11

      • Flashy

        Tom…my personal beliefs do not have a Hell in them. How’s that grab you?

      • Kate8

        Tom W. – I’m to the point where I couldn’t care less what the Flash’s of the world think about anything. Those who know and comprehend, do, and those who don’t, don’t. We, the people who honor God, know who we are, and those who mock Him I leave to their own devices. We are told of this, too… how He causes a strong delusion to come over those who rebel against Him… They must bear the responsibility for their own choices.

        There is nowhere in scripture that says that the End Time events are all natural. They could well be caused by man. Things like poisoned air, food, water…plagues (vaccine-induced, drug-induced, biowarfare, etc.), financial ruin, extreme weather… These are all things which are the product of technologies used for destruction.

        Such things as people being able to know of events in an hour, or even as they occur…This can only be possible in these times of rapid communication. How about people rushing to and fro, and nation rising against nation, kingdom against kingdom, etc., and things are so messed up that the world is in “perplexity”. It tells us of world government enslaving the people and placing a mark on them, else they cannot buy or sell (or work, travel, or any other thing). All these things are happening right now.

        There have been reports of opposition forces now moving to remove the ruling elite from power. I first heard of it last fall, and they are saying now that the arrests have already been underway, and that there are something like 154 countries working to take down the globalist cabal. You can draw your own conclusions:

        http://www.activistpost.com/2012/04/secret-freedom-fighters-working-to.html

        Whether this is actually true, or another psy-ops report to convince us to stand down when things start to erupt across the land, I don’t know. I’d like to believe it’s true. I guess we’ll have a good idea if they try to confiscate firearms.

        It is said that what we do not resolve within our souls, must be played out in form. The evil in the world is but a reflection of the collective consciousness. Yet, the Bible assures those who stand firm in abiding with the Lord will be shown the way to safety. “No weapons formed against thee shall prosper”; “Though a thousand fall at your side, ten thousand at your right hand, yet it shall not come nigh thee”; “Pray that you and your family will escape the wrath to come”; “God has not appointed His people to wrath”; “When you see these things come to pass, look up! Rejoice! For your redemption draws nigh”.

        There are numerous such promises in scripture. There are also many reports of Divine Intervention occuring to those in hopeless danger: weapons misfiring or failing to launch or detonate; unexplained protection and deliverance from enemy capture; nukes failing to go off. It goes on and on, but you won’t hear about them in the MSM.

        The point is, we are nearing the final hour. The choices we make now will likely determine our fate for what’s to come.

        Believe what you will. We can all choose whether to surrender to Divine Love, or sign on to the world madness. We are all responsible for how we treat others, how we conduct ourselves, and how we think. Yeshua said we must “renew the mind”, and the Way is through the heart. God can only be known through the heart, for the ego mind cannot comprehend Him.

        This I do know: There is only One Truth. That Truth is God. ALL else is belief.

      • Ron Christopher

        Tom,
        You said the Lord loves the people and so do you. I have a problem with that statement. So considering your statement to be true then why at judgement day does God say, I knew you not.
        I do not like to give my opinion of what the Bible says and I have this inner craving that nobody else should either. How do we know what God means when He says something. Are we interpreters? I think it would be wise if one refrains from commenting on what God meant.

      • Kate8

        Ron Christopher – The Bible repeatedly uses the words, “For he who has ears to hear”. It also tells us that, unless a person is indwelt by the Holy Spirit, he will not understand the words of scriptures but, instead, they will read like “so much foolishness”.

        The Bible itself tells us that its deeper meanings are encoded. Only the earnest seeker will discover those meanings.

        When He says He will look upon many and say, “I never knew you”, He’s speaking of those who outwardly do all the “right things” in order to appear righteous, but know Him not in their hearts. God can only speak to us and work through us when our hearts are open to and filled with His Spirit.

        It’s not so much about what we do, but who we are inside. Remember His words to the Pharasees, who considered themselves very righteous because they adhered very strictly to the letter of the Law, but had not the spirit. Yeshua told us that the greatest commandment is Love. We cannot know God unless we have opened our hearts to Love.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003309707389 Tom W.

        Hey Ron, I gotta an answer for ya if ya want to hear it, but first let me attend to a minor irritant. Flushduche, I don’t care whatever pagan religion you follow that doesn’t believe in h e double hockeysticks,but my Bible (God’s Holy Perfect Word!) talks in several places about a place where the fire is NEVER quenched and the worm DIETH NOT!!! You better pray to your pagan god hard Flushduche that you”re right!!! Now back to a leget question, Ron the best way I think that I’ve heard it put was, “The most important decission a person will ever make in their life is the decission they make about that empty tomb in Jerusalem!” The passage that you refer to is one where Jesus is talking about people honoring Him with their lips, but their hearts being far from Him! The Bible in a nutshell says that we (Every single human being ever born! ALL OF US!!!) are hopeless sinners, totally unworthy to stand before a Holy God! But that while we were yet sinners, God sent His Son Jesus, who being born of a virgin lived a sinless perfect life and WILLINGLY went to the cross where being falsely accused by unrighteous men to be the propituation for mine, yours, anyone who has the faith to belive this as the truth’s sins once and forevermore! And after three days in the tomb, arose victorious over death and hell and now sits at the righy hand of the Father waitings for Pops to say, “Son, go gather thy children!!!” I personally believe that could happen at any moment! Now back to you question Ron. Only you and God know whether or not you’ve admitted to Him that you are a sinner in need of Christ’s forgiveness. If you’ve done that and sincerely asked Christ to come into your heart, then you’ve nothing to worry about! Now as to the passage you refered to, the churchs are full Ron of people who go every week, give tithes, work on commitees, preach in the pulpits, feed and clothe the poor, but for whatever reason have not truly repented and asked for forgivenes. You MUST admit to God that you ARE a sinner, and you MUST ask Jesus to come into your heart and take control of your life! This is referred to as dying to self and being BORN AGAIN!!! And Jesus said, “Ye must be born again!” It will be a sad day for those folks when they are TOLD by the One that they pretended to follow to go line up with the goats!!! (Matt, 25:31-46) I hope this helped you Ron, I pray that it did!!!

        Proverbs 16:4 (KJV)
        “The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.”

    • TS

      No, not end of story. We (US) are supporting the restarting of drugs made from the poppy farming that the taliban stopped. Those drugs are mostly going into Russia and work to subvert their economy. I’d be mad as H at the USA if I were Russia for Americans restarting the drug supply that was stopped and now is going full steam ahead with American soldiers protecting the farmers and the drug cartells. Americans are spreading thier corruption to the rest of the world under Zionist policy.

      • Tom W.

        I’ll pray that God will open your eyes also TS! What does greed and corruption have to do with Zionist policy?! Why do we continue to support a man whose late (I wonder who was responsible for his demise?!) brother ran the ILLEGAL drug trade in Afghanistan? Why do we not control the ammount of poppy grown in the country that is responsible for 90% of the world’s heroine supply?!! Zionist policy?! You sir are a neo-Nazi!!!

      • oh oh

        Anti-Zionist = neo-Nazi? Now that’s one overly-simplistic assessment. Tom, many people who oppose offensive aspects of the Zionist agenda have no Nazi tendencies whatsoever and, in fact, would oppose the Nazi agenda even more. You paint with a broad brush and need to get a clue.

    • PendragonRise

      Off topic but if you, a few others who follow the same practice, truly want people to take you seriously, then try entering spaces after your punctuation. As a former proofreader for twenty-five years, the only time I ever encountered this habit was in the pretentious halls of academia ruled by a pompous, eggheaded elite. They insisted on defying the laws of logic in an effort to exercise their arcane interpretation of the rules of grammar while pejorating the English language further and further with every sentence they wrote. Please, extract your head from the omelet and get off your high horse of pretension.

      • Tom W.

        Very eloquently spoken PendragonRise! I will assume to make it a priority in all of my future correspondences! So sorry ole’ chap!!!

    • Wildey

      It is estimated by the Russians and us that Afghanistan upwards of 6 Trllion dollars of Lithiumm the main material in making batteries, in the ground, Its excepted that it has the worlds largest deposits. Think that’s why we’re there?

      • Tom W.

        not only lithium Wildey but the mountains in Afghanistan are sooo mineral rich that they actually glisten green in the sunlight! According to everybody’s favorite leftist Michael Moore, that was the REAL reason we went onto Afghanistan in the first place, to construct a natural gas pipe line from Turkmenistan through Afghanistan into Pakistan and India. One that the Afghani government had always been opposed to!

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Afghanistan_Pipeline

    • http://non isaac

      You are right about reasons for war; yes, for the control of resources, but whose resources? When you are controlling your own resources, you protect it. If it is someone else’s resources, you are stealing or plundering with brutal force. One needs good excuses to plunder, I mean to go to war for extractive reasons. But that is not right. That is why war is criminal and monumental illegality fuelled by greed and avarice but war mongers always cook bad reasons to legalise it. And because it is naturally illegal, the gains are also illegal. So natural courses of justice and rertibutive returns make the proceeds unsustainable and meaninglessly unsatisfactory. Big powers with no right make war on weaker ones in order to control resources that are not theirs because they think might is right. The long term result of such abuse is monumental failures that you have observed in history about wars and frudelent empire building. But one does not need much school to understand this little natural principles of truth about misuse and abuse of power. After all, all the so called powers we misuse donot belong to us permanently so when the misuse is over,we reap permanently spurious results. But when we put power to positive use, we reap permanenlly edifying results that bless not only us but the whole world. So check it out, have a nice ride with or without power.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003309707389 Tom W.

        Huh?!…

    • American Working Man

      Sorry cawmun, you are wrong. Iraq was started by W, who wanted to be known as the war time president, even though his military service is questionable about what his role was during Vietnam. in 2001, W started telling the American people that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. That is why Iraq was invaded. When no WMD’s were found (those in the know were not surprised) W backtracked his story and told the American people that he was lied to. No surprise there. When caught in a lie, people will blame others. For many nights and days, we were told about WMD’s. W and his cronies, Cheyney especially, wanted to invade Iraq for it’s oil and to topple Hussein (who put a contract out on the senior Bush). Again, he showed up with pomp and circumstance and said Mission Accomplished, another falsehood (11 years later we are finally done with Iraq). The only one constant in all of this is that we the American people fight for our country when called.

  • Sirian

    Perhaps we should recognize how history repeats itself, time after time. Empires come and go – they always have. Wars result in an expansion of power as well as control over resources. Ideologies change, one in particular is the dominate for a while as the others remain available for use at a later date. This time around we have been the source of “extraction” but that too will come to an end – soon. If only the human ego could be reduced to a mere fraction of what it is, then, and only then would this be a peaceful world.

    • http://www.facebook.com/WizardKiller Mark Are Reynolds

      I think you may have hit it right on the nose.

    • Tom W.

      Know Jesus, know peace! No Jesus, no peace!!!

      • Sirian

        You’re making it to simple TomW. Very, Very True! That’s why they can’t stand it. :)

  • ReaperHD

    This is not war and our politicans should be held as criminals for what they do to our troops. WWII was a war and you destroy the enemy and their countries not play political games with the lives of our troops.

    • Gary L

      Ditto ReaperHD,

      If this were a real war we should be fighting to win.
      Our troops are acting as police and need permission to engage the enemy.
      We should be wiping out the enemy. Period.
      It is not war.

      • BERNADINE

        this is war on the American People and the people do nothing to stop it.
        OBAMA IS A subject of ENgland when he was born. SO he can not be president of England now can he???? But as AMERICAN president he can take AMERICA down
        as well as ENGLAND RIGHT??? His father&mother & his grand parents all
        hated this country and were involved with communest that wanted to distroy
        this country. AS PRESIDENT OF THIS COUNTRY he can take down Britain and a
        AMERICA at the same time RIGHT???? and all of AMERICA just so proud to
        Have a BLACK man as president right. The old MAFIA OF CHICAGO of the 20″s
        the drug war, OUR young girls forced into prostitution, sex with baby’s on up.
        nothing is sacred any more. just hell on earth. when the MAYA calender ends.
        I pray this world will end. America has no CHRISTIANS that will STAND UP and fight for
        the Chistian fore fathers fought to give us the constitution under GOD for our freedom.
        YOU ALL NEED TO HAVE SOMEONE GIVE YOU what you think YOU REALLY WANT.
        THEN YOU WILL FIND OUT IT IS NOT SO GREAT AS YOU THAUGHT IT WOULD BE.
        MAY GOD BLESS YOU ALL.

      • absolutely amazed

        We had no business being in either Iraq or Afghanistan, either as troops or policemen. Bn Laden was the target, and he is no longer amongst the living. But neither are thousands of our young men and women who were sent to fight for no clear reason, without our even paying for them being there or for their care when their comrades return maimed. If Bush and Cheney sent them to secure a source of oil, and they failed, at least put in an oil and gas tax for us to pay for these crazy adventures so we can share the grief.

    • DaveH

      World War II was just another clash of the special interests. It had little to do with saving the world from Hitler, and everything to do with the Elites protecting their financial interests, as usual at the expense of our common soldiers and citizens.

      • DaveH

        Progressives and wars:
        http://mises.org/daily/2543

      • Sirian

        Very good article DaveH. If I remember correctly it seems as if Flynn had pointed out the same basic thing or was running along the same line. May have that mixed with another but it seems so. Question is though, why is it so blasted hard for the liberal idiots to not research such information for another point of view and at least give it some thought? Nevermind, that question sorta answers itself.

  • http://YAHOO CHAR51

    ive heard a very scary, story obama thinks hes going to make himself a dictory,and going to use a foren army to control our army. that is why hes reduceing our military. not shore if this is true. we know he is setting this county up for something,with the laws he has put into place. is someone looking out for the people. if some how this is true, will there be enough miltary to take care of us. maybe some of the general could somehow figer this out.t

  • http://none don larson

    Yes, without a doubt, the American Empire is near it’s “end times.” Once the Greatest Nation in the World; the U.S., has moved from being the leading Creditor Nation to the World’s top Debtor Nation; and, all within the span of 35 – 40 years.

    Needless to say, we pissed it all away; and, soon it will be time to pay the Piper.

    When Political Correctness finally infilitrated the Military, our economically poor soldiers, brimming with Patriotism, became nothing more than Cannon Fodder for the now ruling Oligarchy of this Country. Was it Powell who said, if you go to War, exercise the advantages that have been given to you. In order words, go all in (within reason), and win the thing in the most expedient means possible. We chose Politically Correctness, which has resulted in the unnecessary death of far too many of our young soldiers.

    Now we are broke; have lost our soul, and few have any idea what this Country stands for anymore, except Money! The new game in town is Extractive Capitalism – - the now more Politically Correct term, replacing the use of the words, Predatory or Vulture Capitalism. Remember the new Cavaet: if you ain’t doing someone, someone is doing you.” So, one needs to get out and, “do somebody – - anybody;” today. That’s now the quickest way to make a Buck. Is this a great country or what?! People don’t have to do much, “real,” work today; we certainly don’t produce or make much of anything anymore. Come on now; get out there and, “do somebody,” That’s how Wall Street made their money.

    Sad, but true! We are following the rythmetic pattern experienced by the other great Empires. No wealth, over extension of the military, no morality, or ethics, and a dying belief in a power greater than ourselves. We have met the enemy; and like the others, he is us!

    • Flashy

      “extracts resources from the American people for the benefit of the few powerful interest groups that rule America. The military-security complex, Wall Street, agribusiness and the Israel lobby use the government to extract resources from Americans to serve their profits and power. The U.S. Constitution has been extracted in the interests of the security state, and Americans’ incomes have been redirected to the pockets of the 1 percent.”

      As this has been what the Progressive and Moderates have been stating for years, and the 99%es have been demonstrating for almost 6 months running now… it is heartening to see that even the Far Right is coming around to this conclusion.

      The author erred in the failures cited for previous empires, namely Rome and great Britain, and I would have tossed the brief period of Spanish dominance as an arm of the “Catholic Empire” and not stand alone.

      And i certainly would not stain any reputation with tying it to the regime of Bush II / Cheney.

      It is a war which began upon the Middle Class, in earnest, in 1981 and was carried to the extreme by Bush II/Cheney. And now, as the war is now actively engaged, the Far Right is a bit player being used by the Machiavellian forces of the 1%. And they are indeed being effective in their puppetry controlled activism fighting against America and the majority of Americans.

      • anonymous

        do you actually believe what you say? Or do you just spout gibberish for fun?

      • Flashy

        Anon…fact is fact. Not difficult to believe facts.

      • DaveH

        The Progressives, that is the people who favor Big Government over Constitutionally Small Government, have been in the forefront of our Imperialistic adventures. It is just one of the methods that Progressive Leaders have used to secure more power for themselves at the expense of the rest of the citizens.
        http://www.cato.org/research/articles/cpr28n4-1.html

        The question — “Is Flashman just a lone, severely propagandized Progressive nut, or is he spreading his propagandistic manure at the behest of the Progressive Leaders?”

      • DaveH

        Flashman, you and fact are like oil and water. That’s why you don’t post any referential backup for your nonsense — You can’t find any.

      • Flashy

        DaveH….what you’re saying is I’m not a shill for Mises nor of any other propaganda machine/think tank of the elite and Big Corporate America. I actually have independent thoughts…which I find scarce on this site..though i enjoy reading Sirian, 45 caliber and a few others who have shown they are not robotic in thought and mind.

        At least i don’t have a phobic mindset of coming to this site with the sole aim of personally attacking instead of arguing a point (look in the mirror on that one).

        What is hilarious is the many attempts made to revise history, implement character assassination on historical figures, and deny facts and obvious ramifications. That and solutions given are so far fetched from reality as to be impractical.

        What scares me is the number on this site who profess to be “patriotic’, yet espouse and cry for policies and actions which will lead, without doubt, to the end of this nation.

        What at times depresses me is the lack of any willingness to move forward into the 21st century, instead wanting to regress and become nothing more than a footnote in future history books.

      • DaveH

        You prove your lack of credibility almost every time you speak, Flashman.

        Flashman says — “DaveH….what you’re saying is I’m not a shill for Mises nor of any other propaganda machine/think tank of the elite and Big Corporate America”.
        But you are a shill for the Administration, Flashman; as I’ve said many times, Parrot.

        Flashman says — “At least i don’t have a phobic mindset of coming to this site with the sole aim of personally attacking instead of arguing a point”.
        Slander and personal attacks are your game, Flashman. The regular readers know that.
        And the regular readers know that you are using the Alinskyesque tactic of accusing your opponent of those things which your opponent has accused you of. But the difference is that I can prove any accusation I make about you. You can’t do the same about me.

        Flashman says — “What is hilarious is the many attempts made to revise history, implement character assassination on historical figures, and deny facts and obvious ramifications”.
        You are welcome at any time, Flashman, to refute any claim I make, with references of course, since I have proven many times that you have no credibility. Here is just one example of your lack of credibility:
        http://personalliberty.com/2012/01/25/your-choice-ron-paul-or-a-wheelbarrow/#comment-517886
        Follow the thread, Folks, if you want to see a complete exposing of the uncredible Flashman.

      • DaveH

        Note, Folks, the following example of Flashman’s slander — ““DaveH….what you’re saying is I’m not a shill for Mises nor of any other propaganda machine/think tank of the elite and Big Corporate America”.
        It’s quite the opposite, and Flashman most likely knows that, but being the Sociopathic Progressive that he is, he much prefers to fabricate facts and slander Mises Institute.
        Thanks, Flashman, for showing thinking people what Progressives are all about.
        As I can’t say often enough, Flashman, you have no credibility on this board. I can prove it (and often do).

      • DaveH

        It looks to me, Flashman, with your slanderous comment on Mises Institute, that you are treading dangerously close to Strike Three.
        http://personalliberty.com/2012/02/21/the-tenthers-are-coming/#comment-537796
        Scroll down to “Bob Livingston says”.
        What will we do without our Flashman example of a typical morally bankrupt Progressive?

  • kategray

    If all these countries had to pay for us to be there, they would be sure to have second thoughts. I am tired of out hard earned dollars being used in foreign countries and we end up with our heros being killed or better yet charged with a crime when there is a war going one. VOTE this administration out.

    • moonbeam

      This administration is now a dictatorship. While Supreme Court decides the fate of the infamous Obamacare, Obama threatens them, TELLING them they better not rule against him on this. The putrid stench gets stinkier and stinkier.

      This guy thinks he is above our judicial system and is the ruler of it.

      Come on America! Lets show this illegal alien from Kenya what the American Spirit is made of. Don’t let this abomination continue. Vote him out!

      • Flashy

        So moonbeam…the Mantra from the wacked Right has always been the courts are too activist. You are now supporting the call for the SCOTUS to be activist and overrule decades of established precedent in use of the Commerce Clause ?

      • DaveH

        You mean decades of Misuse of the Commerce Clause, Flashman:
        http://blog.mises.org/20302/constitutional-law-is-supposed-to-be-different/

      • DaveH

        The Unelected Officials of the Supreme Court, a branch of the Federal Government, and appointed by the Federal Government, can hardly be expected to be unbiased in their decisions about the Federal Government. That’s why in the original Constitution, the Supremes were NOT given the Power to be the final arbiter of Constitutionality. They just took that Power in the early 1800s, and the ignorant, apathetic populace let them get away with it.
        See if you can find anywhere in this Constitution where the Supreme Court was given such Power:
        https://www.cato.org/constitution/constitution_en.html

      • Flashy

        DaveH…you never read Marbury v Madison have you…jeesh. You should change your screen name to “Shill” or at least tell us how much in advertising revenue you’re receiving from the site.

      • DaveH

        As usual, Flashman can only name-drop and name-call since he has no valid basis on which to refute my comments.

      • Flashy

        As i stated DaveH…it’s obvious you have never read Marbury v Madson nor Wickard v. Filburn and instead rely upon websites with an agenda to formulate your thoughts.

      • DaveH

        Okay, Flashman, show me where in the Constitution, the Supreme Court was given the Power to be the final arbiter of the Constitution.
        For thinking people, who are just a little suspicious of an Institution declaring Power unto itself:
        http://www.lewrockwell.com/dilorenzo/dilorenzo105.html

      • DaveH

        Flashman says — “instead rely upon websites with an agenda to formulate your thoughts”.
        So, we should instead rely upon you, Flashman, a known liar, slanderer, and plagiarizer to formulate our thoughts?

      • DaveH

        From the above linked article — “Between 1937 and 1995, not a single federal law was declared unconstitutional by the Supreme Court. Not one piece of legislation was seen as exceeding the scope of Congress’s commerce power.”
        Sounds a little bit like Flashman guarding the Hen House, doesn’t it?

      • DaveH

        And here is a great deal for those who have a Kindle and love Judge Napolitano’s writings:
        http://www.amazon.com/Napolitano-Constitutional-Constitution-Nation-ebook/dp/B003IGDCZS/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1333480841&sr=8-5

      • Flashy

        DaveH…have you read either of the two cases?

        Easy question.

      • Kate8

        Dave H – Flash continues to miss the point.

        How is it that the SCOTUS, or the POTUS, can just claim powers not given them in the Law of the Land? They just declare they have the power, and that’s that. Huh?

        And how does the Congress claim the power to twist and distort the Constitution in ways that change its whole purpose (to limit them from just such overreach) simply by declaring that they now have it? Or that they can change rules an precedures unfairly in order to “pass” unpopular legislation, just because they decide to do it?

        If this is how government works, then the people are completely at the mercy of governmental whims. This is not reasonable. This system was set up to require the consent of the governed for any act or statute, and all those in the 3 branches swore to uphold the Constitution…not reinterpret it.

        The worst part is that the people believe that guv has this power, it seems, and simply recoil momentarily before simply giving a resigned sigh as the noose tightens around our necks.

        It’s useless to use the courts, who are all on board with the rest of guv, to try to rectify these grievances. They are all corrupt and conspirators against the people toward a system that wishes to enslave us and benefit them. You can’t beg the fox to be fair to the chickens when the door is thrown open.

        People like Flash are incapable of seeing what’ wrong with this picture. I would guess that he, along with some others, are placed here by government funded organizers in order to make us think there are lots of people who actually believe in Obama’s plans for America. He has no real arguments that make sense. He knows that. He’s just here to try to ferret out the opposition and aggravate real people.

        As long as we continue to accept and comply, this insanity will continue to come at us. Unless we let them know that we are not going to stand for any more of this, well… then we deserve what comes next, I suppose.

      • Flashy

        “Dave H – Flash continues to miss the point.

        How is it that the SCOTUS, or the POTUS, can just claim powers not given them in the Law of the Land? They just declare they have the power, and that’s that. Huh?

        And how does the Congress claim the power to twist and distort the Constitution in ways that change its whole purpose (to limit them from just such overreach) simply by declaring that they now have it? Or that they can change rules an precedures unfairly in order to “pass” unpopular legislation, just because they decide to do it?” <—Kate8

        Kate..you miss the point. To your questions, I strongly urge you to read Marbury v Madison and Wickard v. Filburn. I also would add International Shoe to that list as well as Justice Douglas's opinion in Roe v Wade.

        Those cases illustrate the answers to your questions. The SCOTUS interprets the Constitution. By and large, rarely does a Court overturn a prior decision on flawed interpretive grounds. (Dred Scott is the most famous example of a flawed decision overturned).

        Marbury details the powers of the Court inherent in its role as Interpreter of the Constitution. Read it carefully to understand where the powers of the SCOTUS derive from. Since the decision was issued during the time many of the drafters of the Constitution still breathed air, the logical thought is if the Court had erred in its reasoning, such would have been brought up in subsequent debate.

        Filburn is the decision that established the reach of the federal government in its interest of keeping the union operating cooperatively and not one state in competition with another.

        International Shoe is the controlling case which decides which law to use in deciding the case at hand.

        Justice Douglas's opinion in Roe v Wade is a stellar argument and explanation of the Ninth as well as the issues of privacy

        Have a nice day

      • Kate8

        Flash – You are using the reasoning of government agents to determine the power they justify for themselves.

        There power in America was to be established by the governed, and only by the consent of the governed. What has happened is that the governing agents have usurped that power from the people and have decided, through legal contortions, that they have the right to do so.

        If that makes sense, and is acceptable to you, then we really have no place with which to find agreement.

        Have a nice day yourself.

      • DaveH

        Flashman is a shill for Big Government, and he’s got no credibility. What else can we expect from him?

    • TS

      Moonbeam, apparently you have never had to deal with the massive fraud and corruption in todays courts. Lying and determining by judge will is rampent and now most judges cannot be trusted to deliver a just ruling. The policy of “alternative defenses” has given attorneys and judges free ride to defraud, extort and perform outright criminal acts. Wake up and smell the stench of a corrupt DOJ from local to SCOTUS.

    • Thor

      Flashy says his ontology does not include ‘hell.’ Let me describe hell, your personal hell to you, Flashman: it is an internet devoid of places like Personal Liberty Digest where you come to amuse yourself by baiting conservatives. When the ‘unFairness Doctrine’ is in place and you and Cass Sunstein are sunning yourselves in Cabo, you will experience the sad thump of fingers snapped in a conservative vacuum that no longer echoes amusingly in that empty brain pan. And in your final journey the silence you experience will be a sad sentient consciousness in that void you believe in. No one will answer because in the final analysis, you believe only in self–a sad, solipsistic existence–and your only recourse will be to invent your own imaginary cosmos.

  • eddie47d

    Thank you Paul Roberts for not pulling any punches. No country deserves to win any war by the use of preemptive strikes. They especially don’t deserve to win a war without a clear mission and we failed on both counts. The Romans,Germans and Spanish used conquests to to enslave others for national glory. Empire builders quite often win but eventually lose and that was also true with Russian conquests. Thankfully we didn’t enslave anyone with our recent wars but many thousands died in our attempt to economically take over nations. Maybe that makes us the “good warmongers”in comparison to those other nations but we were/are none the less manipulated by a few select Elites.

  • http://hbledbetter@gmail.com Henry Ledbetter

    The open mike tells me all I need to know about the intentions of our president. We would be wise to fear the nukes of Russia more than those of Iran. Sad to say that there will be wars and rumors of wars to the time of the end but only God The Father knows when that time will be. “Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord” and “if God be forus then who can stand against us.” True freedom can only come from God and we would be wise to seek Him. ALL THAT GO AGAINST GOD WILL BE DEFEATED.

  • Ted Crawford

    This article , preportedly to compare Empires, ignores the fact that times change. Society evolves, the desires and intentions, and necessities change with them. To compare the Roman Empire to any modern Society, as to cause and effect, is to compare the Pony Express to the Internet!
    While some cultures today do still fight for conquest, WWII Germany for example, and the justification for armed response is obvious, many wars today are much more subtle. Today Terrorism, not a declaration of war, is the tactic of choice for those who seek conquest! We are forced today to fight for our very way of life. We will either defend ourselves against this or lose our culture forever!
    However this article isn’t really an attempt to explain Empire at all! Appearently, even the Conservative Academics, have no respect for the intelligence and powers of reason of , we the common folks! This is clearly a support article for one political candidate!

    • http://teamlaw.org Jazzabelle

      Ted: some things change, but people don’t. People’s motivations don’t. No amount of technology changes human nature. The reasons people go to war stay the same; just the rationalizations and excuses they give for going to war vary by culture and century.

    • DaveH

      Who appointed you to be the spokesperson for the common citizen, Ted?

    • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

      You are correct, Jazzebelle; perfect answer!!!

  • Glen

    What are we doing? I’m from the Korea/Vietnam era, and the miliatary exercise (not war, of course) and “politically correct” treatment (which is incorrect, illegal and immoral) of foreign countries continues. We continue giving our blood, our morals (?), our finances, and getting nothing out of it, but hatred from others. How long will this continue? It literally is driving us in to bankruptcy (financial and spiritual). I say…GET OUT OF THESE NON-PRODUCTIVE WARS and use this energy, intelligence and trillions in finances to bless the needs of the USA. It will take a change in Washington from the politicians, and a change across America in our churches from our pastors, priests and rabbis to change the spiritual climate of the once great nation. Dr. G.

  • http://www.facebook.com/WizardKiller Mark Are Reynolds

    This article is in error when it comes to taxes. The military industrial complex doesn’t exist on the fruits of the American people outside of the inflation caused by the exorbitant printing of fiat currency for the financing of the system. The taxes are there to make you THINK that they do something other than simply remove purchasing power from you. Which is really what taxes are for in a fiat system. To help “regulate” the money supply. John Maynard Keynes said in the book “Economic Consequences of Peace”, that if the government would refrain from regulating the money supply the apparent fraud of the money would become evident and no longer work. The military industrial complex exists BECAUSE of the fiat monetary system. If taxes were needed, it would collapse because we do not have the ability through taxes to finance such a system. And if we were using the gold and silver coin the founding fathers insisted should be used as currency, the government WOULD need taxes to operate as gold and silver cannot be created out of thin air.

  • tim

    War is all about lobbyists and money. The longer it goes the more money the war mongers make. Our role is to protect OUR country only, NOT babysit the world!!!!! Get rid of the United Nations!!!!!

  • http://none BAP362

    We never needed to go into Iraq. We had Sadem pinned down with no fly’s and economic sanctions. Sadem was broke and busted and we could have kept him that way forever. As far as Bin Laden goes we could have gotten him in the first place like we got him in 2011 with a special ops strike, and in fact could have run the entire war on the so called War of Terror the same way without spending trillions of our wealth. Our elected leaders are just wallowing in total stupidity, and we the voters let them get away with this nonsense.

  • Louis Lemieux

    The US mission in Afghanistan is to prevent the Talibans from taking the country and planning attacks against the US. The US Constitution doesn’t lend itself very much to building an empire because it promotes humanism, a democratic and ethical life stance, which affirms that human beings have the right and responsibility to give meaning and shape to their own lives. It stands for the building of a more humane society through an ethic based on human and other natural values in the spirit of reason and free inquiry through human capabilities.

    If the US never really had colonies from which to extract wealth, it did however profit enormously by using its economic and political power to perpetuate and extend its influence over underdeveloped nations or areas: neocolonialism.

    • Flashy

      Actually, if you will recall, we went into Afghanistan to take bin Laden. the ruling power in Afghanistan at the time was the Taliban. The stated ‘goal’ was never to replace the Taliban. Fact is, Bush II had resumed aid to the Taliban regime just a few months prior ending pres. Clinton’s embargo on that country.

      Then, after Bush II /Cheney ousted the Taliban, they set aside the goal of getting bin Laden and used it as part of the reasons to lie us into the Iraq War. It became a tool to use to support the Lie.

      Once we went into the second war, keeping the cost off the books and letting bin Laden roam unmolested was helping them, so they left him alone. All the while telling us all was good, and they were bankrupting this Nation. And those who protested and called out the obvious were denigrated and castigated for being traitors, commies, and un American.

    • Vigilant

      Mr. Lemieux says, “The US Constitution doesn’t lend itself very much to building an empire because it promotes humanism, a democratic and ethical life stance…”

      No sir, the Constitution does NOT promote humanism. Nor does it promote Christianity, atheism, Islam or Buddhism. Our secular Constitutional Republic leaves room for ALL faiths and philosophical positions.

      That sage document is based on the Declaration of Independence, specifically on Jefferson’s iteration of Locke’s Creator-endowed rights under Natural Law. Nothing could be more antithetical to divinity than secular humanism.

      Secular humanism would replace the God-given authority for natural rights with an egoistic, human-centered and therefore ephemeral system of “rights” defined by committee or government.

      The Founders knew damn well that the republic they gave us would surely crumble in the absence of Christian-based morality and responsibility. Looking at today’s deterioration of those values, and the secular humanism of the liberals, it’s no reach to say that the warnings of the Founders are coming true.

      • DaveH

        I’m not Christian, and I adhere more closely to my morality than any of the religious people I’ve known. That’s not meant to denigrate religion which, at the least, is a good effort to instill morality in people, rather I dispute that a person must be religious to have morality.

      • Vigilant

        Neither am I a Christian, Dave. From what you’ve said in the past, I believe you are a moral person, and I also believe that one does not need to be a Christian or a member of any other religion to be “moral” in the sense that those values conform to the generally accepted Christian values.

        Like Jefferson, I believe in what’s commonly called the principles of Christianity without being Christian. Simply, one does not have to accept the “revealed” nature of Christianity as a prerequisite for adherence to the good values and principles which are promulgated by that religion.

        The Founders were aware that religion played a major part in forming the moral values of the population of America in the 18th century. Since that was the primary venue (with family) to promote those values, they understood that the churches were invaluable in imparting those ideas.

        I also believe that our upbringing was important in forming our value systems, and even if we moved beyond the Christian religion, we kept those values with us.

        Remember, the notion of individual freedom is a mainstay of Christianity. Had Islam been the predominant religion in America, we would never have been given the gift of a secular Constitutional Republic.

  • http://none Russ

    We never needed to go into Iraq. We had Sadem pinned down with no fly’s and economic sanctions. He was busted and broke, and we could have kept him that way forever. As far as Bin Laden goes we could have gotten him in the beginning with a special ops strike like we did in 2011. Our entire so called War on Terror could be conducted the same way without Americans having to throw away trillions in wealth to support unecessary wars. Our so called leaders are just wallowing in stupidity, and we the voters let them get away with this nonsense.

    • 45caliber

      We might have had him penned down with a no-fly zone but certainly not with economic sanctions. Those were less than useless. In fact, if you check, he was selling more oil to France and Germany than he was supposed to sell to anyone … and all of it was bypassing the sanctions.

      • Flashy

        45..true enough. But even that additional revenue above what the sanctions allowed barely made Sammy able to pay the bills to keep his grasp on power. he didn’t have any to upgrade the military, the Kurds were holding their own in the north re-organizing after the gas attacks courtesy of the results of Reagan’s manipulations, and with the exception of the favorites of court, the masses weren’t doing so hot.

        I think if we had let things stay as is and played the Game, Sammy would have been snuffed via a coup by the mid 00′s.

      • DaveH

        What did Reagan have to do with the gas attacks on the Kurds?
        References please, since you have no credibility on this board, Flashman.

      • Flashy

        DaveH….are you that dense to have any knowledge of how Sammy got the gas and delivery systems in the first place?

        Let me guess..you have no clue as to the birthday cake and trading with the enemy conducted by Reagan eh? Nor the Contras and funding cutthroats and murderers to unseat a democratic government to favor United Fruit?

        Wow…no wonder whatever you have to write is devoid of independent thought…

      • DaveH

        Don’t confuse your fabricated facts with independent thought, Flashman.

      • DaveH

        Why don’t you post some references, Flashman? Can’t find any, can you?

      • Flashy

        DaveH…I asked “DaveH….are you that dense to have any knowledge of how Sammy got the gas and delivery systems in the first place?”

        From your subsequent posts, I take it you really are that dense.

        BTW..the events of how Sammy got the ingredients for the gas as well as the dlivery systems are well known. Same with the birthday cake to the Iranian Ayatollah, and the subsequent deal with the Iranians (within months of the hostage release) for arms to the Contras.

        I take it.Mises didn’t have any quick links for you to post

      • DaveH

        As usual, Flashman resorts to his adolescent personal attacks, and dances around the issue without posting any kind of referential evidence.
        You see, Folks, how these intellectually bankrupt Liberals work? They’ve got nothing but their manipulative attacks and lies. If they did have any real facts to back up there lip-service they would produce them.

  • FreedomFighter


    It is ironic that under the new empire the citizens of the empire are extracted of their wealth and liberty in order to extract lives from the targeted foreign populations. Just like the bombed and murdered Muslims, the American people are victims of the American empire.

    The American people are victims of the “6 banks, 13 bloodlines that control the American empire, whom are building the New World Order.

    To stop it is to resist.

    Laus Deo
    Semper Fi

  • Mirage

    Tell me something I don’t know.
    Outlining the pervasive failure of nation occupying/building throughout recorded history, in addition to the nation-collapse that the aforementioned policies lead to, is something everyone who graduated from high school 101 should know: DUH.
    Oh well, guess you have to play to your audience.
    Too bad George W. Bush and his Republican cronies who largely controlled Washington D.C. for most of his 8 years, did not pay attention in high school!
    Either that, or they actually mistook John Wayne and Clint Eastwood movies for reality.
    The British failed in Afghanastan, as did the Russians, as will we. Ditto Iraq ala Vietnam.
    Simplified: if America was invaded, how long do you think it would take for the occupiers to convert us? Correct: never.
    If you actually hear anyone declaring we’re “winning” our wars, grab a pen and paper ….
    time for a Charlie Sheen autograph!

  • Ted Rice

    Just having watched “The Hunger Games” I was amused at the parallels between it and real life in America. The difference in lifestyle, culture and living standards between those in “the Capitol” and the districts is a perfect satire on the difference between those inside the Beltway, and small town and rural America. And of course we have our “Hunger Games” to keep the people pacified by continual fear of war and terrorism, with most of the military forces coming from small town and rural America – certainly not the children of the elites! Of course in our games there is more than one winner – you win by getting home with all four limbs and your sanity.

    What it is all for is to keep the resources coming in to support the lifestyles of those who really control the country, and who despise the “little people” who produce those resources.

  • http://loboviejo.wordpress.com loboviejo

    No outside power, not even the Mongol Empire, has ever controlled Afghanistan. We became sucked into the “great game” when the Sovs were playing. Our participation may have hastened their withdrawal, but it was inevitable. We, too, will leave.

    Part of the problem is the assumption that Afghanistan is a single nation–therefore capable of becoming a “failed state” which we tend to fear because it calls into question many created nations. If we need to deal with a failed state we always have California–it’s closer, has better weather and maybe more resources.

    To be honest, we are in the empire business because Theodore Roosevelt wanted Spain’s empire and it just sort of grew. The problem is that it drains resources and manpower–I’m sure history will show that even the extractive empires of the past failed for similar reasons. At some point the welfare state in Rome could not be supported by the agriculture of Egypt and the armies became too expensive.

    We should also remember that Plutarch described the rise of the Empire as the fall of the Roman Republic.

    • Flashy

      Rome had no welfare state. The “republic” in all but name ended during the First Carthaginian Wars and had nothing to do with expanding an empire…but rather entrenching the elites to their “empire within’ (read both Gibbons and Wells for a nice round picture of the history of Rome)

      As for Teddy and his taking over the remains of the Spanish Empire, as the resulting control was practiced by US policy, can anyone argue the benefits outweighed the costs?

      Finally, your comments on “extracting” expires. If one sees those “colonies” as needing to have a strong presence and held by force, yes..the cost in money and manpower exceeds the benefits returned. However, if one examines those which practiced colonization as a mutual cooperative and thus held together by common interests and identity, you would find that the formula of cost exceeding benefits is not proven out.

  • jopa

    It amazes me when I read that someone thinks the Taliban need all of Afghanistan to prepare attacks against the US.All they need is a back room in one of those mud huts and not the whole country.Their past success was due to funding by Bin Laden and he is now history and there resources are pretty much dried up.Seal team six did what had to be done and now we should get out and work on Americas real problem at home.That being AIPAC that gets us into these wars while Israel sit back and watches our troops die and our treasure being squandered.If they could just behave in a bad place things would be so much better , and no more of that shooting missiles at someone that just threw a rock at them.

  • Norm

    I see no place in the US constitution anything about establishing an American empire. In fact most of the founding fathers hated war and wanted to avoid conflicts with foreign powers at all costs.
    Yet the right wing “supporters” of a conservative interpretation of the constitution seem to have their own twisted take of the roll of the US in the world.
    No empirical power has ever survived the test of time, because imposing your brand of righteousness on others has never and can never work.

    • 45caliber

      Norm:

      And of course, people like FDR and Wilson never had any ideas of war …

    • http://teamlaw.org Jazzabelle

      Norm wrote: “No empirical power has ever survived the test of time…”

      I think you mean, “No imperial power….”

      “Empirical” means (briefly), “relying on or derived from observation or experiment.”

  • Steve

    The British empire was dieing before WWI even started. The USA was never really an Empire, if any thing it was started as the anti empire. The USA’s age of conquest even had an anti empire flavor to it, mixed it with it. Only partly because of our own work, the USA ended up becoming the most powerful country in the world and had the job of being the world police force thrust on us. So there the US sits, wildly rich, extremely powerful and not a clue what to do with it. That and we have made a really bad world police force. The sad thing is it’s probably less bad then any one else would have done.

    • Norm

      Unfortunately, the US is not wildly rich. In fact, the middle class is worse off than it has been in years. The three trillion squandered in Iraq and Afghanistan could have solved the Social Security and Medicare problems for many years.
      Also the death and maiming of our fine young men and women for such a wasted cause is truly tragic.

      • http://www.mototcarsfinancial.com Brad

        Norm

        Nowhere do I hear you or anyone else mention the extrs 3 trillion
        given out to the world banks and leaders from the FED. 3 trillion went into wars over a decade but another 3 trillion went as fast as the wire would transmit the digits.

  • Dave

    If just one days of information you can find on the internet was released by the Main Stream Media, the course of history would change. Most people only get what they are fed by the elite and are so ignorant they believe it or they are getting free money and don’t care.

    • FreedomFighter

      You mean like the FDA not banning BPA from products, they really care about breast cancer in women and all the other hormon mimicer problems this stuff causes.

      You mean like the FDA refusing to let the industry label GMO containing foods?

      Laus Deo
      Semper Fi

  • 45caliber

    I have to agree with Parsons. There is a lot of talk about the US having and “empire” but an empire contributes to the wealth of the whole. We haven’t gotten a thing. Further, an empire means we conquere other countries and then rule them. So far we haven’t done that either. If we had, we’d still have Germany at our beck and call, much less Iraq.

    So I’ll go on believing that our military isn’t trying to conquere anyone except the bad guys.

    • FreedomFighter

      America is a the Hammer, the wielder of the hammer is the NWO illuminati or what ever you want to call the 6 mega banks and the 13 bloodlines that control the wealth of the world. The extraction from America goes to them, the extraction from the conqured goes to them.

      Follow the money

      Laus Deo
      Semper Fi

  • roger gunderson

    Excellent comments: Now lets get that “Declaration of Survival” going.

  • jay Lindberg

    To state that the rules of empire only benefit the top of the food chain is right on the money. What this author is stating is that the occupation is here and that is a pretty damn correct assessment. Good job.

    Jay

  • Norm

    “These gentlemen [Taliban] are the moral equivalents of America’s Founding Fathers” ~President Ronald Reagan 1985
    At that time they were fighting the Soviets and so we supplied them with arms including some 1,000 Stingers from 1986 onwards after Ronald Reagan overcame CIA objections that they were too dangerous to be given to the rebels. MI6 used SAS troops to train the Afghans in the use of the missiles. It is not known how many Stingers were used in Afghanistan. Some of the 1,000 have turned up as far afield as Iran and Sri Lanka.
    The point is politics change faster than the duration of wars.

  • http://a-albionic.com lloydmillerus

    Paul Craig Roberts is an idiot. The lack of results from America’s wars, nearly all since WWII, result from very disasterous infighting in the American Ruling Class. Bush “W” represented Zionist and American national interests in the Iraq war. His aims included not only making Israel safer, but destroying OPEC, staunching the MUSLIM worldwide revival due to oil revenue, lowering the price of energy. . . he failed because he was opposed by the Rockefeller / Saudi / OPEC / BIG OIL camarilla which profits from energy draught and hides behind “environmentalism / global warming / peak oil, etc. The New York Times and the Washington Post/CBS/NBC/ABC, catspaws of the Rockefeller intersts stopped the Bush program dead in his tracks and replaced him with their own man, OBAMA. . . Daddy Bush and Baker (Saudi Lawyer) reigned in the errant “W”. The war sacrifices went for naught. Similarly, Aftghanistan slips back to the Taliban so the Saudis and Rockefeller BIG OIL can resume it project for MUSLIM control of the vast oil riches of Central Asia.

    • Paul J. Bosco

      How nice to read –well, to be honest, I just skimmed– a comment that is actually about the article at the top of the page. I found it so disappointing that Paul Craig Roberts’ piece, so steeped in history, so devoid of partisanship and so different from most articles in Mr. Livingston’s forum, has spawned comments that are so disappointingly typical in their rigid thinking. I’m sorry: Their rigid SPEWING.

      Mr. Roberts has given the Forum’s readers a new kind of bone to chew on, but who even notices it’s something different?

      As for the substance of Lloyd’s comments –his paranoid rant– little deserves to be said, but I thank him for the insertion of the word “camarilla”. That at least was classy, I thought.

      One thing about war, and the economics of war, has not changed: the placing of a ZERO value on the lives of the enemy’s dead, and a negligable value on the lives of one’s own: the young people whom the old men send off to fight and die for them. It was refreshing to read someone who feels that the lives of those killed during the days of “Shock and Awe” had value. At a time when Americans can share in the mourning of a Trayvon Martin, is it possible to also realize that unjustified killing is, through our foreign policy of “pre-emptive war”, very much the American stock-and-trade? The fact that WE DON”T EVEN GET ANYTHING FOR IT may indeed signal the end of Empire.

      –Paul J. Bosco
      Manhattan

  • FreedomFighter

    Professor Wants to Drug Climate Skeptics

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IswA63-Zqkw&feature=uploademail

    Just for fun

    Laus Deo
    Semper Fi

    • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

      If you can’t convince them with bullsh*t, drug them, hey FF? That was too funny…personally, i think the Luci’s are getting desperate. They know their end is near, and they are waaay behind schedule. Don’t forget you’re bag of marshmallows to their roasting, FF. Keep the faith, brother!!!

  • don christopher

    the writer did not understand why iraq and afganistan have caught hell from american might. we were attacked by individuals related to the taliban . we were attacked by ben
    laden. we were attacked by individuals backed by iran . we were attacked by saudi citizens
    bank rolled by individuals FROM THE WORLD OF RADICAL MUSLIMS.
    when 3,000 plus individuals from many countries lost their lives in america , at that moment the hunt was on and some one was going to pay the price. our country looked for the trail . the trail led to the people doing the radical training . those people caught hell. the principal culprit was ben laden .it required years of searching and billions of dollars to find ben laden . ben laden lost his life. those that continue his thought and deed process will find the same end. we did not start it , we will continue to defend ourselves

    Point is this , you can expect to pay the price when you do the deed.

    GOD BLESS THE U.S.A.

    • DaveH

      How fortunate for Leaders that men do not think — Hitler.

  • Wildey

    America started on the road to Empire with its first “offensive” war, the Spanish American war. During the 20th Century the effort expanded with the apathy of the people in what its government is doing. Milestones would be WW1 WW2 and then all the unconstitutional wars since.Technology grew allowing Bush Sr. to declare a “One world Order” in 1991 with the belief that America is the worlds only power. His successors have come to power with that aim in mind. They’ve been dominoing since then. In that regard I fear Obama as “The One” but I fear Romney even more. Obama’s a domestic godless socialist but Romney thinks more on a one world order scale. Except fo Ron Paul, everyone seeking the office of president will take America down in flames.

  • Power To The People

    America has no empire based simply on the definition of “empire”. America is a broken country that is controlled by elite powers in finance, military establishment and moralist politicians.

    The pillagers (government) have sacked the citizenry for years and we sit back and whine about gas prices and taxes. War is a distraction today to turn the head away from the real problems…mostly made by the politicians, to rally the folks to a cause. No politician gives a rats ass about our troops! They only care about keeping up the mascaraed and holding power.

    We need much more than just to vote the current occupants out of the White House….we need to take a hatchet to the entire beast known as Big Brother! Simply voting in the rigged elections will not make a dent in the mountain of problems. More drastic action is required….much like our founding fathers had to take several centuries ago.

    • Bert Cundle Sr.

      The Big Brother You are in referance to?
      The ” 1 ” World Government that Must Be Stopped is The Vatagan RULE! Their real purpous in religion; is to make people subjects to their Christ & Church!!! [ YET… TO SEE THE THE DISPLAYED CATHOLICS… THEY DO ENORMIOUS AMOUNTS OF GOOD FOR THE NEEDY ( EVEN SOME NON CHRISTIANS)! GOVERNMENT MUST BE VOID OF ANY RELIGIONS INFLUANCE! No prayer to start meetings!… The United States Flag must be the Symbal for Unity… ” not considering it’s past mestakes” But, Citizens Civil Rule!

  • roger gunderson

    ” Power to the people”–well said. thank you

    • Bert Cundle Sr.

      Unless the people are Criminals!!

  • mark

    Well now that china is the world empire and america isnt redistribution of wealth should be pretty well easy for turdoma to perform now .

  • John the angry Patriot

    This article rings so true. Since the Korean War America has not been determined to win a war as much to jist have a war with somebody. Vietnam could have been over in less than a year if America had went balls to the wall and destroyed Hamoi amd the Ho Chi Mihn trail.I think we were a bit afraid to esculate the war then by dragging China or Russia into the conflict. The only people who benefitted, the defence contractors. And the coffin builders.

  • Jimmy

    Obama said that objective was to dismantle and disrupt the Taliban. Of course at our expense which we cannot continue to sustain.
    And Karzai tries to tell us how to fight the Taliban since he knows the good ones from the bad ones. We need to get out of Afghanistan now as soon as possible.

  • Mad Max

    We need a better way to fight back.
    “WAKE UP PEOPLE!” – JOIN THE REVOLUTION
    Read “Common Sense 3.1” at ( http://www.revolution2.osixs.org )

    FIGHT THE CAUSE – NOT THE SYMPTOM
    We don’t have to live like this anymore. “Spread the News”

    WE ARE FREE!!!
    http://WeAreFree.osixs.org

    (You can thank Me Later)

  • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

    A thousand years ago, a world was ravaged by a handful of European royal families and theocracies bent on world domination, that looted, pillaged and enslaved and slaughtered the indigenous global cultures of this world and supplanted it’s own culture, values and history. There was an uprising amongst the people that lead to the supposed ousting of these powers – but – they never left! Yes this is the greatest deception in our history, the illusion of freedom and independence, a web of deceit, that we have all been caught up in, and it’s all been in plain sight.

    The Holy Roman/European/British/colonial/imperialist era, that enslaved the Americas, Africa, Asia, Pacific, Middle east and Europe, never ended. The nations we know as independent and sovereign today are governed by the same power-structure – the Grande chess masters and orchestrators of the events in our history. Their biggest ambition; to see 90% of us dead.

  • Bert Cundle Sr.

    U.S. Politicans must believe they conquer the LEADER… They won the war! Alkaida // Talaban / / Insurgents … Are the Groups that Make a leader! LIKE: Democrats & Republicans! Leaders get less respect than Orginizations! ( The Battle of Jesus Vs. Christ…) Jesus IS the ANTI – CHRIST!!!

  • Orrie

    Extracting the wealth of Americans. Who would have thought that our very own government is in the business of stealing our money to keep the wars going? And here I thought they were taxing us for the benefit of Americans and the advancement of our Nation.

  • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

    During my twelve years service as a Judge, I always insisted on the truth and placed justice above law and order! I could have prepared this article indicia of a research paper however; people tend to lose interest when articles of this nature become too technical. Science has taught us that, For every action there is a positive reaction! If your life on earth resembles a Matrix, it is because you are seeing things for the first time, with eyes wide open, but you feel confused!

    That feeling of confusion is appropriate because the information you are now digesting, contradicts much of the information you have been spoon fed throughout your life! I named this paper after the movie “The Matrix”, written by the Wachowski brothers. After reading this, watch the movie and you will notice many similarities.

    In 2002, my brother ran into a problem with the IRS and to help him out, I began to research the Tax Code. One thing led to another and suddenly I was uncovering information about our government, which was directly in conflict with the U.

    http://www.conspiracyplanet.com/channel.cfm?channelid=130&contentid=9559&page=2

  • boyscout

    Behind every overt purchase of a $600.00 hammer is a covert agenda with a classified and often wiped info trail. Call them the “powers that be” or give them any handle you wish, but know that they ARE somehow profiting while not only the wealth and welfare of our nation’s citizens but citizenship itself is being diminished. Let us not put too much trust in the comfort of the government’s provided security which more and more seems to demand sole right to that provision. Let the 2nd Amendment be the last to fall. ie. FMCDEH

  • FreedomFighter

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExH7h9Lk5HY

    More true today

    Laus Deo
    Semper Fi

  • J M Damon

    Thanks for enlightening message and comments.
    What a pity that imperialists then and now have not and do not read Kipling:

    “East is East and West is West
    And never the twain shall meet…”

  • ranger hall

    No wonder this Country is so screwed up with people like you out there, Sorry 50% seem to have a good idea about what is going on in the world, While the other 50% do not know nothing except what they read.
    Bin L was not the main reason we went into Afganistan, Al Quida and the training camps were the main reason, We could not show the Taliban any PROOF that Bin L and Al Quida was to Blame for 9/11, So we then called the Taliban as Harboring Terrorist. groups. now we had the excuse and the People ate it up, Then B2 knew that the People were following the Bell, So the WMD was all they needed to have the People ok going into Iraq. Bin l we continued going for because he was not a threat to us, but for Someone else he still was a threat because the Arab People in the world would listen to his words, and as long as he was alive he would always be a threat to those People.
    And for some of you arm chair Generals out there, No way could we have won in Vietnam, and no way we will win in Afqanistan or Iraq all for the simple reason we are fighting againest the People and not a uniformed Military. How do you like that Gen. Pushup, you need to rewrite your Book.
    I cannot think of any one i have killed in the past 53 years that was trying to take away my freedoms, Now trying to take my life that was a different story.
    Amazing how quick we all jump when the Bell is rung.
    Amazing how much fanfare we give our young men and Women when they are sent to war
    Amazing how we still find fanfare when they come home in bags
    Most of you people dont know what its like,when people kill people,
    When we drop a 500 pound Bomb on people we call that Great, When these people explode 50lbs on our people We call them Cowards,and terrorists. Sad how little we have learned in 200 plus years.
    Guess i have just seen to much death and destruction An none was for a good cause.Not for the people anyway.
    Before i die I would for once like to fight for a Real good cause..

  • Pingback: Blackwater Watch » Blog Archive » Empires Then And Now : Personal Liberty Alerts

  • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay
  • Wildey

    I feel there is another angle to the American Empire and that is, the Federal Reserve
    (FR) and the dollar being the world’s sovereign currency. Our dollar is nothing but Note, a federal reserve note, owed to the FR. Anyone in posession of one owes the FR that amount of dollars. The American people and any foreigner are recognizing their debt merely by being in posession of them. The dollar was money when it was a certificate redeemable in a commodity, gold or silver. Today its Notes. The bankers in charge of the Federal Reserve Notes are putting a strangle hold on the whole world. How? By making everybodies oil the commodity backing the dollar and making all trade in oil only done in dollars. Iraq, Libya and Iran weren’t going along with this. Two down, one to go, unless somebdy else choses to buck the bankers, like Russia. The dollar solidifies the American Empire, or “For the love of money is the root of all evil”.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001074803214 John Gregory

    Hmmm, I thought this thread had to do with the comparisons of Western Empires through time. While not specific to Empire Americana or Eastern Empires the discussion at the top regarded – in the main – extractive vs. self-immolating forms of Empire or ?. That the cost of “war” has changed over time is apparent. Accolades, self-aggrandizement or prestige is no longer a requirement. Or is it?

    What someone mentioned about bin Laden was correct. If he were the main element of vengeance or retaliation it would seem “beneath” the role of a “Empirical War” as stated. But, there are many cases of both Rome, Sparta and Athens, even the Persians and the Egyptians striking out for something MORE than just the “booty” of war. (Though this was taken account of at that time also. I, sensing historical perspectives – don’t think for a moment Egypt would march out of Aleppo leaving oil {if valued at the time} there untouched.) Now, correct. Oddly enough – our efforts in Iraq haven’t seemed to have thralled that government to offer forth that which they know we value so highly. Saddam is no more. His rule is over. Yet, even so – it doesn’t appear as though they’re “thankful” in the least. So, again the question is begged. Why didn’t we just get the hell out after it was discovered there were no WMD and Saddam was dead? To spread – like manure – our form of government? To pass along our self-righteousness? Jurisprudence? They felt more ENCUMBERED by our presence than assisted. Were we, in fact, waiting for them to offer us oil? But along with this would’ve come upgrading their oil transport pipelines, pumping stations, their technology, etc. Then what? Having fought long and hard – the insurgents learning our tactics faster than we could change them – we’d be attacked over and over again – offering ourselves up to their road side bombs, motorcycle bombs, suicide bombers, exchange jungle for sand and where would we be? At the “origin” – Vietnam. Just WHERE did the French go when twilight was falling fast on their Indochina Empire? “monsieur, but of course, it is the beginning of communism here – the United States, we know – HATE the communists! Oui! – take over for us – if you are successful – we – the French – will then take over and administer it for you.”! As they tried to drag us into Algeria and the Levant.

    Iraq will become the next ally of Iran in the region – depending on Syria (who desires it also) and Afghanistan. Iran and Iraq fought their wars because we told Saddam to. Syria may not stand. It is a simple exchange. Pakistan will be enraged as Iran makes further inroads into Afghanistan since Pakistan merely thought they would pick up with the Taliban where they left off. Western minds do not contemplate well the minds of those – who as far as they’re concerned – had an Emir but a few weeks ago. Empires. How small the Western mind has become. Rebuilding Afghanistan will not bring the “good graces” of America to this landlocked nation of tribes. If it weren’t for the “losing” of $60 billion dollars – and the heroin cash – Karzai would be dead. But he must save face and survive to have a chance at all. So many around him have been killed – Karzai remains only because he PAYS. That is why – while he can – he wants us GONE. To ease Pakistan back in with the Taliban. It was easy enough to tell the American’s of his fait accompli with the Taliban. Why ask permission first when you know you’ll get forgiveness after? As if the Taliban had to get within 20 miles of Islamabad to impress the Pakistani’s. There weren’t civilian brigades outside the city digging trenches! They weren’t calling up to arms 14-16 year old boys for defense handing them guns! Citizen’s had left their houses – but there were no BOMBERS, A-10′s, fighters, assistances asked for from the US ally! No calls went out for ANY HELP AT ALL! The Pakistani Army did as the ISS told them to. I’m not certain of India’s gumption or training – but it looked as though cub scouts could’ve taken Islamabad – and gotten badges for it. Gosh, and all around where the 5 areas bin Laden was “hiding” out. Empires sometimes take on the look and feel of the last one. Pakistan is impatient – as is Karzai for the Taliban to return. Al Queada – again a presence. BUT THEY’D HAVE ONE NO MATTER WHEN WE LEFT! There’s little sign of Al Queada in the Islands of the Philippines any longer. They went looking. No one home. Got tired of it. No money or targets. Gone. Mumbai was a Pakistani construct. Secret Intelligence is paid by Al Queada and Islamabad is PO’d we don’t share everything anymore. Pakistani’s can get exercised when it comes to India – but why us? They too were as North Korea and Iran – developing nuclear weapons though their people weren’t living any better. How are THEY living better now? And yet the question at the top of this page makes it seem as though Pakistan, N.Korea or Iran is any different in their way compared to ours. We WAR to make sure the WORLD knows we can project our: “?”. Culture? Religion? Capitalism? Westernized Thinking? Education? Military Power? Economic Power? Way of Life? – If not for “booty” or certainly “Thanks” – then for WHAT?! There IS no American Empire. Churchill said this. Goebbles made up a story about FDR’s Imperialism – ergo America’s. While we’re “Nation-Building” all over God’s Great World – what happens when it’s more and more an “act”? A “show”? A “performance”? Sure, Iran can come into the wake of our fleet – but if we did something similar to their “fleet”? What of China’s fleet to come? Putin has stated he will rebuild the Russian Army and Navy. He signed contracts handing over great amounts of Siberian resources to the Chinese so they’d come and teach him their ways of economic growth so he could do what he planned. The Emperor Valerian found out when although serious, he was made a fool of for coming so far he was humiliated by Shapur I. That he was “Roman” it was thought he’d surely win. It was not to be and perished a fool. Not supported economically or militarily as well as his enemy he moved into battle with weak forces that had been watched for miles. It’s great the United States has “respect” – but as far as admiration – the World is again changing. Having a powerful military for any kind of Empire remains tethered to the ability to maintain it economically. Athens or Sparta? Trying to do/be both is difficult in the best of times when our nation had superiority in so many fields. Now, nothing is for certain.

    Who are those BENEFITTING from WAR? Named also was the Military-Security Matrix. The World has changed – no more does it take a week or month to pass information to the Capital or the Front. Unless we keep ahead on several fronts, the ability to retain whatever Euclidean Empire we may think we have – or do have – will become that much more difficult to sharpen and enhance as education and skills become ever more nominal.

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