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Emigrate to Canada & Beyond, and Leave U.S. Taxes Behind

September 14, 2009 by  

Emigrate to Canada & Beyond, and Leave U.S. Taxes Behind

More years ago than I care to recall, I graduated from the Edmund A. Walsh School of Foreign Service (SFS) at Georgetown University in Washington, D.C. (and GU Law too).

One of my SFS classmates from Canada told a memorable story about how his grandfather was constantly troubled about the possibility that “the Yanks were coming.” This elder Canadian, steeped in colonial history, was convinced that someday those ornery Americans would storm north across the border and invade again.

Well, in truth, a small number of Americans have headed north across that 5,525-mile long United States-Canadian border, famously styled as “the longest undefended border in the world.”

The objective of this migration is not to conquer, but to become Canadian citizens—and thereby reduce the American migrant’s U.S. taxes to zero.

Canada is not an offshore tax haven. Commonwealth and provincial taxes are relatively high. Except in specific programs designed to entice new immigrants to come to Canada (more on that below), there are few tax breaks for foreigners. However, little-known Canadian trust and tax laws, when properly employed, offer Americans a legal way to forever end the obligation to pay U.S. taxes—by becoming Canadians.

Expatriation

This unusual tax freedom is accomplished by a process known as “expatriation” in which a U.S. person voluntarily ends U.S. citizenship. That may seem extreme, but it can be done legally and consistent with U.S. and Canadian law—with the right expert professional legal and tax advisors.

American tax laws require “U.S. persons”—citizens or resident aliens—to pay income taxes on earnings from any source anywhere in the world no matter where they live. Unlike most other countries with “territorial” tax systems, a U.S. person can’t escape taxes by moving offshore.

By contrast, most other countries tax only the people who actually live within their borders. Canada for example, does impose taxes on the worldwide income of residents. But if a Canadian moves out of Canada and establishes a new residence in another country, the legal duty to pay Canadian taxes ends with few exceptions. This feature of Canadian tax law is an important part of our tax-saving expatriation plan.

Tax-Free New Residents

However tough taxes may be for the average Canadian, wealthy immigrants can take advantage of tax-free loopholes available only to them. Here are some of the options for high net worth immigrants who come to Canada:

1) A qualified immigrant accepted for eventual Canadian citizenship is eligible for a complete personal income tax moratorium for the first five calendar years of residence in Canada. They pay no taxes if the source of their income is a previously existing offshore, non-Canadian trust, (known as an “immigrant trust”) or an offshore corporation.

Because the high establishment and administrative costs of such a trust, it generally is best suited for immigrants who have at least $1 million or more in assets that can be placed in the offshore immigrant trust.

2) After living five years tax-free in Canada as a new citizen, the new Canadian can move his or her residence (and tax domicile) to another country, preferably a tax haven, and afterwards pay taxes only on income earned or paid from within Canada. They pay no taxes on their worldwide income. (There is a Canadian “departure” tax to be paid after filing a notice of intent to live abroad. There is no way of determining the exact rate of this tax since various types of property are taxed at differing rates.)

3) Canadian citizens and resident aliens employed by certain “international financial centers” are forgiven 50 percent of all income taxes.

4) Canada has abolished all national death (estate) taxes (but the provinces do have such taxes).

Investors Welcome

Canadian law favors a specific class of preferred immigrants including investors, entrepreneurs, the self-employed and those who will add to the “cultural and artistic life” of the nation. With minor variations in each of the provinces, investor immigrants generally must have a net worth in excess of C$500,000 (US$443,000) and be willing to invest at least C$250,000 (US$222,000) in a Canadian business for a minimum three- to five-year period. Purchase of a residence usually does not qualify as an investment, although it may if you work from home.

American Tax Burden

While most foreigners can relocate to a tax haven as a legal way to avoid home country income taxes, U.S. persons cannot. The only way a U.S. person can escape taxes is to end U.S. citizenship and residency—but only after acquiring a new citizenship from another country, another important step in the expatriation process. (No one wants to be the man or woman without a country!)

Let me assure doubters that, yes, this is legal. The U.S. Supreme Court has upheld Americans’ right to acquire another citizenship, to end their U.S. citizenship and to expatriate.

Likely Candidates

Q: Which Americans should consider expatriation?

A: Those concerned with high taxes. Without good estate planning, U.S. death taxes can take up to 55 percent of your assets from your heirs when you pass away—and that final tax insult comes after a working lifetime of paying up to 40 percent of your earnings in federal income taxes every year. Add in state and local income and sales taxes and you stand to lose in taxes well over half your earnings during your lifetime—and your heirs lose another half of what’s left at death.

The potential emigrant from America eventually must surrender U.S. citizenship in order to end U.S. tax obligations. But be aware of the new (2008) U.S. “exit tax” now in effect. If you qualify as what the law calls a “covered person” the exit tax may outweigh any benefit to be gained by immigration to Canada.

A Potential Savings of Millions of Dollars

There you have it. It may seem a difficult road to travel, but becoming a Canadian citizen investor can save a U.S. citizen millions of dollars that would otherwise go directly to the Internal Revenue Service.

Yes, these savings are predicated on major changes—including surrender of your U.S. citizenship. You must move yourself, your family and your business to Canada and possibly to another country later on. Despite these drawbacks, the true bottom line measured in dollar savings can be enormous.

–By Robert E. Bauman JD

Robert E. Bauman, J.D.

is a Former U.S. Congressman from Maryland. He now serves as legal counsel to The Sovereign Society, Editor of Offshore Confidential and Chairman of Freedom Alliance. He is the author of Where to Stash Your Cash: Offshore Financial Centers of the World and the Passport Book and more. Sovereign Society members and others know Bob as the prolific author of many articles, reports and books. His writings have appeared in The Wall Street Journal, the New York Times, National Review, Human Events and many other publications. As Chairman of The Freedom Alliance, Bob provides members with up-to-date, critical information about protecting your wealth and freeing yourself from unnecessary taxes and government oversight.

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  • DaveH

    It’s hard to escape the ravenous money hunger of the United States government.

    • Heather

      Canada is a great, beautiful country, Health Care is outstanding in spite of the bogus ads run on TV. There are treaties between the U.S. and Canada you are not going to save on paying taxes but you will have 1000 times better health care. I would suggest that you find an international Tax consultant before applying for immigration to Canada. Anyone leave the U.S. without specific Tax information for both countries is a fool.

      • RayD

        Sorry Heather, but your so wrong about Canadian Health Care. Canada is great but their health care is horrible. All my daughter’s in-laws are from Canada and they all say it is terrible.

        • Robert

          Strange, every Canadian who I know and have met loves their healthcare. So much so, in fact, that none of them have any interest in becoming American citizens for that reason alone.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            I agree with Ray D. All that I have sat down with and talked to up there, tell me there is no way in hell we want socialized health care here. They say it sucks.

        • James

          I don’t know where you’re getting your information from, but ask most Canadians how they feel about privatized healthcare & we’ll tell you to go to hell. Healthcare should be a God given right, not a capital venture.

      • DaveH

        Heather,
        I don’t doubt Canada’s beauty. But to sell a country on it’s healthcare is pretty funny to me. I want a country that doesn’t tax the citizens to death for the benefit of the elected leaders and their cronies. I will take care of my own healthcare thank you.

        • eyeswideopen

          Dave, I have been looking for such a country to use as an example and I can’t find one. Most of the e developed countries have healthcare and a high taxes. It must be the global ecomony, driving our western standard of living to the ends of the earth. I don’t think we will be able to turn back the clock to the less taxing time.

      • Donna

        You are so wrong about the health care there. I have a friend and her father-in-law had rectal cancer. They would have probably caught it in the early stages, if he didnt have to wait a year to just see a specialist. In my opinion Health care there sucks.

        • Shawna

          HA! Big deal! In America you also have to wait several months to see a specialist. I was admitted to the hospital (in America) with kidney problems and was “supposed to get into see a specialist” immediately. Well first the DRs let me go when they should have kept me for more tests. I had good insurance but I guess they needed the beds for all the minorities on medicaid! Which actually I was the minority in that area! Anyway, by the timethose incompitant Drs finally made me an appointment, it was several months away, when I was supposed to be a priority case. Guess they had to get all those minorities in first too. Also, by the time myappointment came up, I had already lost my health insurance and couldn’t go, now I am left with a perminant condition that is still going untreated. BTW, I lost my insurance because I was sexually harassed at work and was fired for standing up for myself. No Justice in America! Backward ass freaks!!! Bad healthcare..worse jobs….WORST LAWS!!!

  • DaveH

    This is off-subject but important to think about in these dangerous times:

    I’m sure that many of you have known a government employee. Are they smarter than you? Even if so, do you think they know best how to live your life? Of course they don’t. Not even the most intelligent people know how to make another person happiest because every one of us has different criteria for happiness. So why would you want that person to have the power of force over your life-decisions?

    If a person was in the employ of a company and he/she could not be fired, do you think that person would tend to work harder at his/her job or not-so-hard? The answer is obvious. So, how could you possibly think that disinterested protected government people would run the health care industry or any other industry better than private companies would?

    When a company is privately run, you may at any time choose to terminate their services and choose another company. Do you think you are going to have that choice when government is involved?

    • jt1123

      Dave
      To answer your legitimate question you must consider other options or alternatives to what is considered medical insurance in USA. Also, we must admit, there is no perfect medical system in other most industrialized nations who do provide medical coverage to all citizens for about half the cost.
      So, the real question is what is fair for all not just some but all citizens of our country? In addition, we must be honest with ourselves in seeing the current system that takes 15.4% of our GDP and leave 40% of working people uninsured, not to mention those under insured.
      We should discus our options in a way that good solution will be provided but not through propaganda of lies and scary tactics, but thoughtful dialog. Our current system is unsustainable and must be changed and/or replaced by something that is fair and cost much less. Government is not the best in anything but consider the alternative of doing nothing.

      • DaveH

        Jt,
        Even though I disagree with you, I want to thank you for delivering your reply courteously and thoughtfully.

        • Heather

          DaveH. you haven’t said why you disagree. Care to elaborate?

          • DaveH

            Heather, I do not want the government involved with my health care decisions any more than they already are. In fact, I would like to see them involved a lot less. I have taken care of most of my problems over my lifetime with healthy eating habits and supplements. For the few times that I actually needed a doctor, I paid out of my pocket happily. Over my lifetime as government became more and more involved in the health care industry the prices have climbed ever higher. See my original comment. Why do people always have to learn the hard way?

      • DaveH

        Government is already heavily involved in healthcare. Since the 70s, when malpractice lawsuits started becoming common, medical costs have skyrocketed. My first son was born Caesarian. It was $400 and that was double the price for a regular delivary. Try doing that now. There are many things the Federal government could do to help. Mostly, they could get out of the way. They could stop states from outlawing their citizens from purchasing out-of-state insurance. They could stop these ridiculous malpractice lawsuits (although that should be done on a state government level). They could encourage more medical schools (mostly by getting out of the way). These days with the wonderful power of the internet much or most of the teaching could be done online very efficiently.

        Have you not noticed that the bigger the government gets the more problems we have? Then consider the high cost that all this government is extracting from the citizens.

        Big Government is the problem, not the solution. Government is force not reason.

        • Heather

          Dave H. the reasons you are giving against government involvement can not be a reality there are some needs that government has to be involved or nothing will happen. There is a balance but I don’t think you are giving an rational reasons as to why government must not be involved. Do you think that Medicare, Social Security, Libraries, Public Schools, highways, universities,justice..etc. should we do away with all of these options because government is involved?

          • DaveH

            Rational reasons? Give me a break Heather. Government has proven time and again that they can’t handle things as well as private enterprise. Big Government is the problem, not the solution.

            There is no way I can open your mind with my short comments. First you have to want it opened. Next you need to do a lot of reading (the kind of books and magazines that you probably are afraid to read). Do some reading by some great economists such as Milton Friedman, or Ludwig Von Mises, or Thomas Sowell (one of my favorites).

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        The government doesnt leave 40 percent uninsured, 40 percent leave themselves uninsured. The government doesnt insure me, and I dont expect them to, and either should you. Be responsible for yourself, and quit being a victim.

  • Alfred L Moniot MD GU M’71

    It is orders of magnitude simpler to relocate to Mexico; taxes are far lower; overall cost of living is way less; affordable help is readily available, and the weather is much better!
    Also, I can be a dual citizen; have two separate estates – pay no death taxes – pay no capital gains taxes in Mexico; legally pay no US income taxes and no property taxes in the US.
    We cut our $19,000. US annual property tax burden to $421. (on a 602 M sq/6500 ft sq house) in a UNESCO World Heritage city.
    Would never consider Canada, but when the Loonie falls to 1.5/1USD, I’m buying via FXC.
    If a had a “viable” business, I would take it to New Zealand!

    • Jim

      See my message 7:50 AM

      • DaveH

        Jim,
        Mexico’s businesses are heavily regulated and cartelized. As a result there is rampant corruption. I don’t think it would be much of a choice for a working person, but if you are retired, it might work for you.

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          It works for all the illegals here. For awhile when I was younger, I worked with Highway road crews doing seeding and sod work, and there were two Americans, myself and my buddy, and 20 Mexicans, who were all willingly and knowingly known as illegal aliens. Some would brag to the others that they were “real wetbacks”, as they swam the river to get here. It was bragging rights. Anyhow, they would work here 3 or 4 summers, and save 10 to 20 thousand dollars, because they would live like 10 to 15 guys in one house, then take that money back to Mexico and they would be rich men. They could buy acreage with cattle and be set for life. So why couldnt us Americans move down there and do the same? Probably because of what Dave says, about the corruption, they would probably fleece us dry.

    • Doc

      If you go to Mexico you CAN NOT own land,Gringo.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        And if you do, the corrupt government and police force will fleece you but good, unless you pay them protection money. It is a very corrupt country, and money talks there.

  • ole hunter

    This has to be one of the most ridiculous articals I have ever read.
    It is true that with becoming a “CANADIAN BACON” there are some financial advantages, but there is also a large loss in your personal freedoms… liberty.
    The right to own and bare arms and a right to a speedy trial, are just two rights a citizen has here but not in canada and other countries.

    I hope that Robert E Bauman and all who think like he does will leave, please leave as soon as possible.

    Our Soldiers are fighting and being killed daily to keep Robert and the rest safe to conduct business here in the US and Abroad, but Robert and friends do not want to PAY for the freedom our military is providing him, he wants protection for free and on his terms.

    Please Leave as soon as possible if you think as Robert Bauman Does!!
    I am sure there are millions of us who would be willing to help you pack!!!!

    Robert Bauman: Typical NEO Conservative, they want it all and they want it for free!!!!

    • http://none J.S. Boileau

      I am one who does not approve of the right to bare arms, this is not the wild west, thousands of people in the U.S. die at the hands of guns, how can that be right? Is that what you support.

      • rudedude

        I agree. We should outlaw cars, doctors and cancer for the same reason.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Then you my pacifist friend, deserved to be robbed at gunpoint, just to show you that good people should own weapons to stop this stuff. If they were outlawed, thats the problem, only outlaws would have them. And, they would have them. Your living a pipe dream.

        • eyeswideopen

          Beberoni, In this country we don’t have to all agree and to wish harm on someone who has a different opinion, just proves the Democrat’s right, we are a party loaded with a bunch of hypocrites. What happened to his rights? Someone should have told him that if he didn’t agree with the Conservative rt-wingers, they will wish him harm. You are the type that he doesn’t want to have a gun!

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            Probably good thing for you I dont, because a-holes like you that are a threat to this country I love, yeah, my cross hairs would be right on your forehead. Of the two of us, I guess Im the only one smart enough to know that peace comes through force, not being a pacifist and letting people walk on you. I dont agree with anyone who chooses to weaken and threaten this country, and your damn right Id shoot them. If you wouldnt, then you need to either get of of my country, or go hide behind your mommy you pansy.

      • DaveH

        Well then J.S. you should wear long sleeves.

      • NWO=ZOG

        Governments have killed over a 100million in the 20th Century alone.

        So why should such an evil social mechanism as the state have all the guns?

        Did you know the first modern gun control laws were from Hitler’s administration?

        Did Hitler and his Khazar shyster pals make good “laws”?

        The real goal with all this engineered chaos is to help the global elite like the Rothschilds kill off 5.5 Billion humans in line with their Luciferian religion via the Georgia Guidestones/Illuminati goal of global population reduction.

        Gun owners are much less likely to be vicitms of violent crime according to several studies (i.e., Dr. Lott-”More Guns Less Crime”).

        People don’t start wars-governments do to help the rich make a easy buck while throwing all the masses out there as canon fodder in order to make more money and give more control of society to the elites.

  • Jim

    I’m thinking of giving up my US permanent residency and moving back to Mexico. Any Expats know about safe Mexican cities? IT’s been a while since I’ve been back.

    • ole hunter

      lived and live in mexico, you can have no guns, your property can be taken at anytime by the mexican goverment… very little phone service… no mail service.
      the police are corrupt in all mexican cities and villages . the police depts ( if you wish to call them that) are mostly familiy owned and operated. Property Insurance, good luck collecting if something bad happens to your home. If you are considered a Rich White American, you are a target of opportunity.
      Largest Insurance company operating in Mexico is AIG, you will need to insure your children against being kidnapped or worse, someones got to pay the La Familia business expenses. Private schools for your kids only, private hospitals are a great idea and they dont take your health insurance, cash only … however there is Blue Cross Blue Sheild in some cities. The locals daughters are usually knocked up by their 15th birthday… the local boys or girls would love to get their hands on a sweet young rich white American kid.

      Go for it Jim, the third world is a great place to live, thats why mexicans are all trying to get over here.
      If you are a Pot , Coke Head or Meth fan you will love the new mexican goverments laws regarding Drug useage, Hell you may even see Rush Limbaugh at a local Bar purchasing a few 100, 000 Oxies.
      If you enjoy TYRANNY move to Mexico.

      • Jim

        Thanks, but I was asking for UNbiased advice, not advice from a racist.

        • ole hunter

          a person that asks advice off of a public forum needs to live in mexico…. sorry you cannot handle the truth… i am sure the Neo Conservative Bauman can give you some good pointers on living in the Third world, he will be happy to take your money by the hour.

          Jim , please move to Nogales Sonora, you will love it, google up.

        • American Citizen

          How does telling the truth about what happens in a country equal racism? He said nothing that was racist, just what life would be like if you lived there.

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          Not racist. Truth. There is quite a difference. If you read race into this, I would highly suggest you look in the mirror and see the guy who has a racist problem. Its probably you. Why is it these days you cannot ever tell the truth, lest someone label you a racist? Unreal.

          • DaveH

            I too am getting sick of the race card. I am getting sick of the minority trying to silence the majority with their accusation of racism for every argument that we make. The real racists are the ones who make that accusation constantly.
            If they want color-blind then they need to shut up with the ‘racist’ accusations and quit reminding us constantly that they are different.

          • NWO=ZOG

            Minorities are the problem. Look at the crime rates, life expectancy, and GDP in Euro Centric Nations compared to all the holes along the Equator. The truth is the truth.

            If these elite limo liberals (conmen) have such compassion why don’t they give their places in Hollywood, Cote’ De Azur, or the Hamptons to the poor, poor minorities?
            (SENTENCE REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT)

  • http://www.chandostransport@eastlink.ca Graeme B

    Plus you get your health care covered without having to pay any premiums unless you want extra coverage for drugs, dental etc. The premium coverage comes from Provincial sales taxes. You will pay more for gas but you will drive a more fuel efficient car. You also will not have to carry a gun around, it is illegal. You leave those at the border. You will be issued a health card which will entitle you to full coverage without having to pay extra fees for blood work, x-rays or doctor visits. Not bad for a “socialist state”. You will be exposed to international news with very little navel gazing. You will become more informed about what is happening in the rest of the world. We are all citizens of this world so giving up US citizenship for Canadian is painless and liberating.

    • Alfred L Moniot MD GU M’71

      Well Graeme, I consider my now US$210.+ a month way inexpensive for virtual first dollar health care coverage under traditional MC A;B;D and Supplement – no waits, choose my own specialty doc; no bureaucracy as all of the providers accept all, etc.
      Would never see a FP/GP, so I could not live under the Canadian system, nor a US MC Advantage plan.
      MD: NBME; ABIM; ABNM; ABR w/spec comp NR
      ret at age 58 in 2003

    • http://donthaveone Beberoni

      Get going then, and move your liberal butt up there. Me, Ill stay here in the greatest nation in the world. Ill put my freedoms here way above theirs anyday. I know. I have been unduly harrased there 3 times in a row on fishing trips, simply because I was an American and they knew I had money, because all fishing tourists pretty much do. Racist bastards. Thats why from now on, my fishing trips will be to Wisconsin, Minnesota and Michigan, here in the free world. Canada is a bunch of liberal pacifist appeasers, and deserve it when someone finally decides to kick their liberal butts. Oh but wait, no one can, because the good old US of A has their back. Yeah, its kind of like that. So you like it so much, move your fat liberal butt up there, and leave us working folks alone.

      • DaveH

        Right on Beberoni.

        • eyeswideopen

          What happened with you being tired of the racist card? No comment to Beb ugh?

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            There is a difference between being a racist and a patriot. A patriot will kick those who seek to overtake us out of here. Pacifists like you think you should sit down and tolerate them smacking you in the face over and over. Sorry, if you call it racism that I want to eliminate those who do not look like me that want to cause harm to my country, then you my friend have the problem, not me. Tolerance kills.

      • Charley

        I agree … the last time up they were so rude, i won’t go back. They asked if I had any guns and I of course saied no. Then they asked if I had any guns at home and then how many??? Unbelievable!!!

  • http://DNA Buddy

    It may be that the “devil” we know is no worse than the “devil” that we dont’ know. That said, there are undoubtedly better places in which to live than in the USA which seems desitined for a big fall.

    Buddy

    P.S. I am suspicious of a guy like Bauman, who counts Abraham Lincoln(famous for the first draft, the first income tax and a very bloody war) as his hero.

    • ole hunter

      the sooner the Bauman followers leave our shores, the better off our country will be… sooner the better!!!!!!!!!!!

      The Neo Conservatives are for themselves… the Neo Liberals are for themselves, both groups love to create conflicts that they wish their children to take no part in, but want others children to fight for their causes.
      The word Patriotism has just become a word people like Bauman use to try and difine themselves as true Americans, their patriotism stops and starts at their Wallet… just another Corporatist with scam to promote!!!

      • DaveH

        Speaking of Big Government, a thought flashed into my mind this morning. One of the banks that was bailed-out recently was CitiCorp. My home loan was originally with Coldwell Banker but recently was bought by CitiMortgage (a subsidiary of CitiCorp). We paid a large portion of our loan down last year. Our original lender said they would recast the loan (reduce payments to reflect the pay-down) for $200. We didn’t get a chance to do that until after CitiMortgage bought the loan. So we approached CitiMortgage for the recast and they charged us $500. So, first we as taxpayers bailed out that crap company, and then they gouged us on the mortgage recast. That is Big Government at work!

    • DaveH

      I have long had a romantic notion of living in Chile, but I’ve never actually been there (just in pictures). Now, thanks to the good ole government, I probably will never be able to afford a trip there.

  • John

    You did not cover U.S. nationals. Did you know that all U.S. citizens also have national citizenship ? (The United States is a national and state government). U.S.C. Title 8, section 1408.

  • Sarge

    The war was short,and for a great cause(Freedom) the tax temporary,and would have been a lot less bloody w/o so many “redneck” slave owners & sympathizers !!! Check your history (COMMENT REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT) !!!

    • DaveH

      Sarge,
      The Civil War was fought over states’ rights, not slavery. Some of the states which fought on the Confederate side didn’t even allow slavery; they just didn’t think it was any of the Federal government’s business to dictate to those states that did allow slavery.

      Having said that, I agree with you completely that slavery was an abomination in our country. Those states should not even have been allowed in the Union, as it was an immediate trashing of the concepts that our forefathers professed. How can we claim a right to freedom while enslaving others?

      But right now a large portion (maybe most) of the citizens are being forced to pay their hard earned money for causes that they don’t embrace. Money is earned by labor, and if it is unwilling labor then it is indeed slavery.

      Two wrongs don’t make a right.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        The thing is, I was raised in the North, live in the North, and have always lived in the North, but when I see how we are today, and the crap we have put up with over the years, I have to wonder how much better it might have been had the South won the war. I know one thing, we wouldnt be spending billions of dollars on the prison system, and we wouldnt have millions of rich lawyers from prostituting the legal system either.

  • ole hunter

    Moderator,
    is this the same maryland congressman Bauman of maryland that had some problems back in 1980, along with his friend perfert Foley?

    • eyeswideopen

      Yes, Hunter, it is one and the same. He was arrested for soliciting sex from a 16 year old male prostitute in 1980. Can’t believe that you remembered that. He must be reformed as he since has a clean record. Good for him!

  • Bryon

    Are we witnessing the ‘brain drain’ of our beloved America? Has it become so terrible here for the working/busineses/professional people that we construct plans to escape an overbearing federal government? Our ‘leaders’ had better reevaulate the situation before they wake up to a country full of wealfare rats and the complete ‘entitlement’ mentality. After all, when ‘we’ leave who will pay for all the handouts?
    Time is running out. It’s past time for us to return to personal accountability….

    • DaveH

      Bryon,
      The leaders won’t care as long as they are at the top of the heap.

  • ML Ross

    The grass is always greener on the other side of the border…so they say…Our country has alot of problems and many faults, but until you’ve lived someplace else, you won’t realize just how good it is…so
    for those grumblers who are dissatisfied with EVERYTHING–go try one border of the US or the other…a year or two ought to be a good education. I’ve been stranded in Mexico because the ‘petrol’ is controlled by the gov’t…there wasn’t a filling station open anywhere..they were siphoning from vehicles so they could run the ambulances, etc. and I’ve been lost on a road to nowhere in the great woods during a blizzard that had been unannounced…IN SEPTEMBER..
    remember, alot of places in Canada have winter 8 mos. of the year.
    Better check out their care of the elderly, unless your kids are moving up there, too…or you’ll have to creep across the border for someone to take care of you in your old age here in the good ole USA. Perhaps it would accomplish more if all of the energy expended on dreaming of running away from our problems, was, instead, used on helping to figure ways to improve our lot here at home. Some folks are going to gripe no matter what!…they’d complain if they were hung with a NEW ROPE…

    • Kay

      Sir
      You should get your facts straight before you start. IT is not winter in Canada for eight months, Even above the artic circle there is only 6 months of winter. Most of the mid west and northern plains here in the US have colder temps and longer winters than most of Canada. And the elderly are much better off in Canada than the US.
      My mother lives there in a senior home that that is mostly covered by her Canada Pension and old age pension. All food, health care, (doctor visits her home every week) perscription, laundry, enertainment etc ALL COVERED. We (her kids) pay only a additional $160. per month. Pretty cheap piece of mind.

  • DaveH

    I ask the readers this: Why are the Liberals fighting so hard to force their way on us? Is it because they genuinely care about us? I doubt it.
    Our parents would probably protect us in an unselfish way. And maybe our siblings or very good friends might (much less likely). But do you really expect strangers that we don’t even know to have that kind of compassion? That is very unlikely. Most likely those Liberal self-acclaimed saviors are in it for themselves. One way or the other they perceive that they will benefit from Big Government.
    One thing is for sure, the Liberal leaders will benefit by ever-increasing government.

    • American Citizen

      If this country were really so bad to live in, I don’t think people would risk their lives to come here. It’s the greedy who are dissatisfied. It’s their wants and not their needs that make them want “MORE”. A decent living that provides good shelter, food and medical care isn’t enough for them. Class envy and greed are the main problems in this country. I’ve always been grateful I was born in this country and no other.

      • DaveH

        I think the politicians exploit that Greed and Class Envy to solicit votes from those citizens who will not put in the time to do some deep thinking and reading. There is nothing wrong with Hopes and Dreams unless those people strive to achieve them on the labor of others. While the Liberals are doing their Hoping and their Dreaming they should spend a little time studying works from the great economists to learn a little more about reality.

  • Merl Elton

    I understand the sentiment. Hwever, we would need to fix the health care system so we would not have to stand in line; or be told to go home; take pain meds; and wait for the inevitable–if we were guilty of being over 50. God help us if we lived to be 60. Can you imagine how much elders would be dissed once the older people are worthless idea seeped into the national consciousness? Crimes against elders would be considered heroic acts.This is why we have to stop overly utilitarian thinking; and run away spending. They are spending our lives away after all; and elders as well as the very young whose lives will be devalued; just might be the ones who have to pay the highest price.

  • Merl Elton

    Only elites, their cronys, lackeys, and kiss ups benefit from socialism. Socialism concentrates wealth at the top in the hands of a relative few. Socialism takes on huge,incredibly expensive agendas. Since, it is very expensive for everyone to have private property; private property for the general public is seized. People are driven to into vast collectives; and are forced to toil their lives away for the state for low pay. Expressions of the spirt like religion, the arts, music, individuality,and talents, fashion and fun are suppressed unless these things are beneficial to or highly regulated by the state. Read 1984, Brave New World, The Gulag Archipelago, etc. Socialits always use trumped-up emergencies to rush and ram their plans and agendas. Brutal czars are given unlimited power to seize wealth, property, and other assets. A tranformation from freedom to socializm could take less than 5 years. Some say a framework for this type of take over is already being built. Beware.

  • Merl Elton

    If the US were as careful about spending taxpayer money as it is in collecting taxpayer money; there would be no budget problems. Why does the gov think it can just toss taxpayer money to the wind?
    Billions of our hard earned dollar are lost or wasted every day. We would all be rich in money and spirit if we did not have to work all day practically every day. No wonder taxpayers are hopping mad at trillion dollar deficits. How can we force China to be humane if we are debtors? Let’s have a citizen’s IRS. How about that idea?

    • s c

      There are many real changes that America needs, Merl. However, the #1 culprit is the federal government. At no time have our ‘leaders’ tried to be accountable to the American people. It’s
      up to us to punish political predators who see us as their slaves.
      The American people don’t send these self-centered rejects to Washington to rule us. They are there to serve us. When it becomes obvious that politicians are there to make fools of us and control us, their posteriors should be seen as ‘fair game’ for whatever happens.
      Some career criminals probably they elect themselves and they owe us nothing. Such is the mentality in Washington. This national disgrace will never go away by itself.

    • DaveH

      Merl,
      All those anti-Big-Government statements and no Zombie attacks yet.
      How do you do that?

  • http://N/A Bob

    I say that if you make the money here in the USA then you have the obligation to pay the taxes, due and only that amount due, on money the made in the USA. If these tax dodges do not like that; then live and make your money some where else besides here in the US. Payings the correct amount of Taxes keeps you free and so you can keep on earning money here in the USA. Have a little Common Sense People. and not so much GREED, GREED and GREED unless you can walk on water.

    • ole hunter

      amen bob, amen!!!!!!

    • American Citizen

      I don’t think anyone minds paying taxes, it’s the tax system that’s the problem. It punishes the successful and rewards the lazy hangerson. The governments need to get their ducks in order and bring the tax percentages down. They need to collect taxes only for what is really necessary for the “common good” and get rid of some of the bureaucracies and bureaucrats. We don’t need an Education Department, one for the Arts, etc. The Federal government keeps taking over more of our lives by making new laws and regulations. Obama is a control freak. I am sick of politicians thinking they know what’s best for us.

    • eyeswideopen

      Bob, I believe it was Jeff,who had an excellent idea, to take the penalities and assessed taxes on all the illegal offshore banking monies and use them to help underwrite some government programs like Medicare.

  • tsaray

    Merl – you have stated it right on the money! Free Enterprise is gone from USA (only a very small vestige remains) and we are experiencing Capitalistic Imperialism which is first cousin to Socialism/Communism. In all of these systems the wealth is horded at the top along with control. We are about to evolve into Socialistic Fascism which is the nest step in the transition to Master/slave society. The Federal Reserve
    banking system along with the Federal Income tax system has destroyed this country. Those are the first to planks in the Communist Manifesto and are theft of labor/production and stored value which is transferred to the super-wealthy/Big Int’l Corps. The population is deluded, confounded, apathetic, complacent and ignorant (especially the well educated who educated into ignorance).

    • RichardS

      I now realize that the required electives in college were simply there to indoctrinate the impressionable young mind I had at the time. It took experience and spiritual renewal that to break through the indoctrination. One has to develop their mind to perform critical thinking tasks. Unfortunately too many of us have gotten mentally lazy wanting critical thought handed to us on a silver platter. So, as mental decline has occurred, so has the monetary decline followed suit.

  • ole hunter

    It seems to me that the author of this artical info page or whatever it is, just wants to punish America for his Past and short comings.
    we are in two wars, how our we to pay for these wars without taxes and tax increases.
    the same over educated idiots that believe in not paying their fair share wish to be protected for free, like the author of this artical.

    the conservatives are all for the wars we are in , however they have no idea how or way to pay the cost, 8 years and very little results.

    • American Citizen

      I often wonder how much George Soros, Michael Moore, B. Streisand, etc, pay in taxes. All those liberals who want the rest of us to pay more taxes, how much do they pay? They down the “rich” of which they are members. Laughable if it weren’t so angering.

      • DaveH

        Citizen,
        And Soros (being a currency trader) stands to make a bundle on the collapse of the US dollar that he is helping to engineer.

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          Soros would like nothing more than to bring this country down, and for those who call themselves democrats and aline themselves with this dog, prove how un-American they are, and those citizens that vote for these democrats that take money from Soros and associate with him, they too are anti Americans, as they are leading to helping flush us down the drain. Open your eyes people. Look what your doing.

    • eyeswideopen

      Hunter, very perceptive of you to realize that when Bush cut the taxes for the very wealthy in the amount of 1.88 trillion, funding the two wars became a problem.
      There are alot of people on these sites, that are resentful that they have to pay a monetary amount to help defend this country from radicals who want to go back in time and not offer our children the same educational and financial opportunities combined with security that they were afforded.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Hey Bonehead, the small business I work for isnt rich, and neither am I, and Bush’s tax cuts allowed us to hire 30 new workers. 30 of them. 30 people paying income tax, social security tax, state tax, sales tax, circulating their income around when they go to the store. But now that your bonehead tax monsters are in office, and they have said and are going to remove the tax cuts in 2010, and they have allready levied new taxes here, all 30 of these guys are now laid off, along with 10 more, all because of your democratic tax monsters coming into power, and people holding on to their money to pay the new upcoming tax bills, and losing the tax cuts, and millions are losing their jobs. And blind (WORD REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT) like you blindly follow your scumbag leaders, and try to tell everyone the cuts were for the rich. Not so, not true, and seriously, and out and out lie. And also, really, get off the rich peoples ass will you. They pay 80 percent of the taxes now, and has a poor man ever given you a job? (WORD REMOVED FOR OFFENSIVE CONTENT) like you want to chase all the successful business’s away to Canada and Mexico, and just leave us with losers like GM and Chrysler, where the Unions and the Democrats are in serious bed together, so the dems give them the billions of OUR money to keep operating. They will lose this money also, as they have proven they dont know what they are doing. But get off of your so called “Rich only” getting tax cuts. That is such a lie, and where I work is living proof your a liar, just like your democratic leaders.

  • s c

    What do we get by being involved in continuous wars? Do our freedoms increase? We’ve been used and abused by a twisted, pimp mentality for many years.
    Muslims, it seems, can’t be trusted to clean up their own house. How are we obligated to the ‘noble’ thing, and tramp around the world and fight in this war and that? How are we obligated to ‘bless’ other countries with democracy?
    America is (supposedly) a republic. We have no business being in the war ‘business.’ The false intellectuals who get us into these damnable wars need to be trampled and discarded.
    Isn’t it amazing how people pissed and moaned about GB getting us involved in Iraq/Afghanistan. Now, we have a new ‘leader,’ and he promised to get us out. He’s on the same path as GB. One might be tempted to say GB and comrade obama work for the same masters. It smells like the same ‘hose America ‘sell-out to me.

    • eyeswideopen

      S.c. It is much easier to get into a war, than to get out. We never did apprehend Bin Ladin, like John McCain said we could. Has he given that information to the CIA on where Bin Ladin is? We can’t just remove everybody at once. This war that GB got us into may last for many more years, give Obama a break, he has been a little busy recently and is relying on the Republican Sec. of Defense and the Generals to bring this to an end.

      • http://aol Don

        eyes, sc is saying that any leader who is getting us to war is wrong, just not Bush. I think we all agree to this. When we were attacked, Bush said he would go in any country that harbored these criminals yet he stayed out of Pakistan until his last year. We should have invaded that country immdiately looking for bin Laden. This would have been justifable in the name of defending ourselves. Well, we got side tracked for many other reasons. The Dems will soon be asking Obama why are we in Afghanistan.

        • eyeswideopen

          Don, I agree with the premise that we should not be there. I am not happy that we got side tracked. Once again we depended on the regimen in power in a foreign country and mis-judged the stability. Seems to be our mode of operation. As a Republican I am totally confused as one year, we are wanting to stay, 6months later we want to pull out. I am concerned with allowing Pakistan an open border. Here’s a crazy idea. Why don’t we just station the troops along the border, thus preventing the Taliban access to Pakistan? No laughing it’s a female idea, and I obviously don’t know what in the hell I’m talking about. Obama will just have to take another beating on this non-winable war, that, now here comes the ironic part, a Conservative Party got us involved in. I am beginning to wonder just what the word Conservative really means, my 1977 dictionary must be failing me now.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Bin Laden is dead and has been for a couple of years. Get over yourself. Im glad someone got tired of letting these guys punch us in the nose like Clinton did for 8 years, and stepped up and punched back. its guys like you that would have let the guy build up and be another Hitler and have the whole middle east under his control before someone did something. Im glad Bush kept us safe. Clinton sleeping at the wheel caused the bombing on 9-11, and I know it, you know it, and God knows it. Come on man, the dude cut intelligence in half and the military in half. Those guys walked in here and set up shop and did whatever they wanted. Bush put a stop to that, and if you dont appreciate that, get out of the country you loser.

    • DaveH

      SC,
      I agree. We are not going to change those people. It won’t make any difference if we pull out today or 8 years from now.
      Whether our nation falls as a result of the Military state or the Socialist state, we average citizens will still be the ones who suffer.

  • RichardS

    But, Canada has socialized medicine to deal or work around.

  • hopeforamerica

    Forget Taxes. After hearing all the praises from Canadian callers to C-Span the other night, Man oh man… .Canada has an Awesome Health care system.
    I wouldn’t be surprised if some Americans emigrated to Canada Just for health care. Most Canadians are Unfamiliar with the term; “Co-Pays” because they don’t exist in Canada. Anyone regardless of Age, Social economic status, health, have access to comprehensive health care. And let’s face it. Canada would be an easy transition from the U.S., and travel between the two countries to visit friends or family as a U.S. or Canadian citizen is a piece of cake.

    I beleive their taxes are higher than the U.S. however their health care system covers ALL Canadians without exception and their health care costs are HALF of the U.S. Health care costs.

    • DaveH

      Wikipedia puts Canadian Health Care Costs at about 70% of the United States Health Care Costs. But who knows? Once government gets it tentacles into any business the true costs are very difficult to determine. Do Canadians perhaps eat healthier than US citizens? Do Canadians see the Doctor less? Do Canadians graduate more medical Doctors than the US? Are their licensing requirements for Doctors less rigorous? Are their medical proceedures less costly due to fewer or less costly malpractice lawsuits?
      Our health care problems are complex problems best solved by free markets and not by disinterested protected government bureaucrats.

      • American Citizen

        They may pay less for their health care, but I believe it’s offset by their higher taxes. Those C-Span callers were most likely seminal callers as we know we’ve heard from people who say that system isn’t as good as it’s touted to be.

  • American Citizen

    Does anyone realize the health care costs in this country are due mainly to the fact that our population is so much bigger and that we are the leaders in innovations in health care? I had a P.E.T. scan today to see if my cancer has spread to any of my organs. Can you get this test in any other country? Will their government pay for it if you are my age, 75? Or will they say, too bad, it costs too much, you are over the age to get any expensive care? The people who make these decisions are still comparatively young and don’t think we older citizens have any use. Look at the wisdom we have but is being largely ignored. In business, we see all the time they hire new hires who are just out of college and have that “degree”. The older workers are let go to make room for them and all that knowledge and experience of how the business works is gone. The new hires are so green, they make mistakes that cost the company more money. Don’t say I don’t know what I’m talking about as we see it happening in our major employer right here. The next thing you know, the company is losing money having to “fix the mistakes.”

    • eyeswideopen

      American,
      Does this mean that you are happy with your socialist government run healthcare? I hope your health improves and not only are our elderly an important assest to this country, so are the middle class whose salaries have not kept up with the insurance premiums. Today the statistics were released : Insurance premiums have risen 131% during the past ten years and salaries increased 38%.
      Don’t you think the middle class needs a break? If they don’t get one how will they be able to keep underwritting Medicare for you?

      • American Citizen

        Eyes, I have said before that Medicare is not free. Together, my husband and I pay premiums of over $500 a month. Yes, it’s government insurance. If Congress would stop raiding SS and Medicare to pay for their other programs, they would not be in trouble. We paid into SS all our working lives and paid the Medicare tax, too, when it was enacted. Also, every time taxes are lowered, the government gets more money than ever coming in. That’s a fact. It’s the spending that is the problem.

        You will not be able to maintain your standard of living on SS alone. When we first retired, we used a portion of an investment every month to supplement the SS so that we could enjoy our retirement. After we used that up, we were able to live on the SS alone, but now with the cost of living going up, we’re having to tap into another investment. I’ve been trying to tell young people to have some kind of investment to draw on after you retire. You just may need it.

      • DaveH

        As I have said before. Those of you who believe the insurance companies are gouging us should pool your resources and start your own insurance companies. What’s stopping you, except of course Big Government? And the same goes for health care – Start your own Medical Schools and graduate enough doctors to take care of yourselves. Of course, neither would work, because you would still have that Big Government (that you love) mucking up your business plans.

        • eyeswideopen

          Dave,
          Do you kill your own meat, raise your own veg’s, weave your own clothes, generate your own electric? Probably not, why don’t you go live with the Amish, who practice what you are preaching. Some of us like the advantages that high tech living provides. I like safe foods, good highways, electric on demand, good hospitals, etc.. Dave, You only speak with disdain about this country. Is there not anything that you like about us?
          You are suggesting that people who want reform go and start their own insurance companies, med schools, etc. If your car insurance got so high you couldn’t afford to purchase it, would you be able to drive, start your own company, and would it be your fault that the company increased rates faster than your salary rose? You need to understand that most Americans love this country, warts and all, and also like our standard of living that a large majority enjoy. Your ideas of a totally free enterprise system void of any controls would produce anarchy. The disorder and confusion would mean only the super rich would be able to purchase saftey and goods when needed. The old saying, he who has the most money makes the rules, is what almost sent this country into a depression. Capitalism must be controlled or it will implode upon itself. I agree that government needs to be cut back, but we cannot go back 200 years and expect those ideas to function today. Our population is too large, and not many want to give up their standard of living. I know you are the expert on economics and political systems, so I am only stating my beliefs, which I know you won’t like and will proceed to dress me down, but that’s how I feel, so I won’t be starting my own insurance company, as I am not rich, but I will work at revising the system we have.

    • eyeswideopen

      American, I think you will like this info.
      http://www.heritage.org/research/healthcare/bg1860.cfm

      • American Citizen

        The problem is, Congress just doesn’t get anything right. If they had to be in the same programs we do, maybe they would wise up.

  • Rich

    Only thing I have to say on this article is thanks for info but no thanks on emigrating to Canada. Canada is a lovely country and most of the Canadians I have had the pleasure of meeting are very nice people, but I love my country even with all of its flaws it is in my opinion the greatest country on earth.

  • Gary Yelton

    Re: Immigration to Canada

    the only one that should go is you, Livingston.
    In Canada, there is brain dead people under a Nazi leadership.
    Yes – like they are trying to do here.
    If this is your personal liberty, you can keep it.
    I am a conservative!

    • eyeswideopen

      Gary,
      Bob and Mr. Bauman were not recommending that we move there, Mr Bauman was simply giving the facts of what would be required and what the benefits would be. You conservatives certainly over-react to facts don’t you. Mr. Livingston give us a site to voice our opinions. You need to get a grip!!!!! and read more carefully he didn’t make a comment on this article. I am a Republican!!!!

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        You might have used to be a Republican, but now days, reading your posts, you sir are no Republican. You are as left as I have ever seen, unless your words are lies. If you are meaning the things say, you really need to switch parties, because your words indicate a left wing liberal pacifist appeaser, and truthfully sir, that is a democrat.

    • Kay

      Gary,
      You may be a conservative but you are also a GOOF

  • http://www.holyspiritatworks.com Leok Ching Chuan (David)

    Dear Brethen
    Thank U for your sharin http://www.holyspiritatworks.com
    Blessing
    Brethen David.

  • DaveH
    • http://aol Don

      How old is this? This seems like old news and alot of other decisions have been made since then.

      • DaveH

        Don,
        Yes, it is several months old, but it is very informative.

  • DaveH
  • DaveH
    • http://aol Don

      Too much of a contradiction in this article. I’m not saying you are for or against this opinion.

    • eyeswideopen

      Dave, He didn’t even mention that Pres. Bush tried to get immigration legislation enacted and the Senate would not support it. I think the Republicans in Senate only were concerned about getting re-elected and not in reforming the policy. Here I give Kudos to Bush for the attempt.

  • DaveH
    • http://aol Don

      I disagree with the article which said the government will decide what treatment one will need and not your doctor.

      • DaveH

        Don,
        I suggest that skeptics read the whole health care bill. For sure, it is almost indecipherable and the lawyers will love that fact. This should be called “The Bureaucrat and Lawyer Full Employment Act”.

  • eyeswideopen
    • http://aol Don

      I like number 400 the best. Boy, I can’t believe this person would want to spend a thousand pages on Bush. I read about one fourth of it.

      • eyeswideopen

        Don, it’s a dirty job, but somebody had to do it. LOL

  • eyeswideopen
  • David

    “Ole hunter” is a little confused about the right of Canadians to carry arms. We don’t have gun shops on every street corner in Canada but it’s relatively easy to get firearms if you don’t have a criminal record. You have to pass a gun course and a security check. Then you can purchase specific firearms. With a restricted/non-restricted license you can own a semi-automatic rifle and a semi-automatic pistol. No automatics allowed here. As a tax paying Canadian, you would also be supporting Canadian armed forces in the Kandahar region of Afghanistan, home to the Taliban. Our casuality rates are the highest per capita of any armed force in the region because we are right in the thick of the action. Oh, did I mention our universal health care system. You won’t find any “ole hunters” here having to sell their homes to pay medical expenses.

    • DaveH

      Maybe then you wouldn’t mind if we sent our whining Liberals up there to live?

      • eyeswideopen

        If you sent all the whinning liberals up there who would pay all the taxes, the repub’s think that all the rich people are Dem’s. lol

        • DaveH
          • eyeswideopen

            You made my point, larger part of population paying higher taxes are Dem’s. They also support being taxed at a higher rate. Strange isn’t it? They support someone who wants to tax them more than Bush did.

          • DaveH

            Get real. They support Big Government because it protects them from competition. To the Uber-Rich, the taxes are nothing. After taxes, they still have more money leftover than you or I ever dreamed of having.

          • DaveH

            Big Business doesn’t support Big Government for altruistic reasons. There is nothing stopping them from giving their money away at any time, Big Government or not.
            There are two main choices for Big Business in a truly free enterprise system. Produce the more desirable products and flourish (that’s a good thing), or have their competitors produce the more desirable products in which case their competitors flourish.
            In a highly regulated market they have a third choice: Support the government candidates who will pass laws that stifle their competitors or laws that will enrich them in spite of their competitors.

          • eyeswideopen

            Dave, then you should be for healthcare reform, as it will stop big business from taking advantage of the middle class. In this case we need Big government to stop Big business. I know you saw the new stats out on insurance premiums. Insurance premiums rose 131 % durinjg 10 year period, salaries rose 38%. No average American can keep pace with those odds.

          • eyeswideopen

            Dave, if taxes are no big deal, why are the Republicans always trying to give the uber rich a tax break? Tax breaks for the top 1% of the richest were in the amount of 1.88 trillion during the past 8 years.

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          Well George Soros’ is pretty rich. The libs own ABC, CBS, NBC CNN and MSNBC, so that takes quite a bit of money. Seems the Kennedys were pretty loaded. Seems John Kerry’s is worth a billion. Yep, I see the democrats as being the rich, and they always have been, thats why they keep lying to the general public and tell them the republicans are the rich guys, which is another left wing liberal out and out lie. The democrats are the rich guys, and if you even remotely try to refute this, you sir, are a liar in the mold of Nancy Pelosi and Bill Clinton.

          • American Citizen

            You forgot to mention the entertainment and sports industries. They rake in billons and are mostly Democrat.

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          Bush lowered taxes dummy. Clinton taxed higher than anyone, with more tax increases in history than any other president, so dont try your lies here. Your lefty buddies might buy into it, but us educated right wingers know better, and we embrace the truth, thats why we dont vote democrat. Get educated and learn the facts before you open your mouth and prove what a fool you are.

    • DaveH

      I’m sure there are some people who fall into the situation of selling their home to pay for their care. But it must not be that bad, as the US has a higher rate of home ownership than Canada has.
      Anyway, someone has to pay for that healthcare, whether it is the actual consumer of the health care services or it is the unfortunate taxpayers. And when someone has to pay for their own care, they are much more unlikely to run to the doctor for every little ailment. Our health care problems in the US have been caused by Big Government. Let’s not throw more gasoline on the fire.
      Personally, I would rather die a quick death, then to die the ‘death of a thousand cuts’ at the hands of Socialists.

  • Susan

    The grass is always greener on the other side of the border…so they say . Well I would like to remind you, the grass on the other side needs cutting too.
    I came across a story, what is going on at the moment some where in Canada. Here is the link. http://www.storyofmylife.com/huskyhusky
    every day I read this young man’s blog.

    • eyeswideopen

      Susan, really sad situtation. Your immigration laws must be very strict, we really need to reform ours.

  • DaveH

    What a web we weave when we take it on ourselves to be the World’s policemen:
    http://www.newsmax.com/timmerman/chavez_iran_banks_hamas/2009/09/13/259538.html

  • DaveH

    Something to ponder for those of you who think we need this oversize Government to protect us from harm:
    Where was that protection in the case of ACORN? It took a couple of young amateur kids (20 & 25) to expose the corruption that is rampant in that organization.

    • eyeswideopen

      Dave, with the limited resources available, no one could monitor the mode of operation, you know similar to the Wall Street crew who weren’t monitored either. LOL

    • eyeswideopen

      What is the big deal about Acorn? Who cares how many they attempt to get registered? Before you can vote you have to show a picture ID which verifies your signature and address. Just because they turn in paperwork, doesn’t mean those people are registered to vote. The fraud is prevented at the voting booth. If it is about the money being wasted, it doesn’t even compare with some of the more notorious scams in the private industry or government agencies which cost us millions if not billions. It sounds like sour grapes, as the Dem’s got more younger people to vote this election and we couldn’t even get our base voters out to beat them..

      • eyeswideopen

        I can’t wait for them to close, as then who will we blame then?

        • Rich

          Micky Mouse made me do it!

      • Rich

        It is only prevented at the voting booth when absentee ballots are not counted. I know in some states those ballots are only counted when a tie or close race is happening, but no proof of identity is required other than signature with them. I was in the Military and voted absentee more than once. That would be the issue with voter fraud affecting the outcome or an election.

        The other issue brought forth in this was that they were paying by quota and most of the fraud was so that the person, usually poor or destitute, could get paid.

        I am not saying these are more important than the corruption of government, but they are important because they receive a large portion of their funding from government programs so your and my tax dollars being used for corruption.

        • Rich

          Oh and don’t misinterpret me to mean this is more important than reforming health care or making the government of the US more transparent and what not, because it isn’t.

        • eyeswideopen

          I say just close them down. Here in Florida maybe because we had such a notorious Bush election, the mail in ballots, are verified against your driver’s license signature which is on file with the state. You have to have some type of ID on file with a picture. We just don’t accept mail in ballots as valid, until they are verified. Don’t most states have similar requirements? If not, why not?

          • Rich

            No they don’t all have those requirements, and yes I agree that is a great question.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        So what and how did the thousands of dead people that voted for Kennedy in Chicago when he beat Nixon, just how did they show their ID’s? Id really be interested in knowing how they did that.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Living proof that we shouldnt be allowed to vote until we are 25 or 30. I know when I was that age I didnt have a clue, and these kids that voted for Obama, did so without knowing a thing about him, or knowing what he did or didnt stand for. They saw him on TV all the time, and saw that he was younger than the other guy, so thats what they based their vote on. Very dangerous. Very dangerous. Youth didnt have a clue in this election, and I hope they learned, now that over a million of them have lost their job because of the decision they made on election day. That is a fact.

        • American Citizen

          ;Most of them voted for him because of his skin color. They were part of a “Historic” election. I saw some being interviewed after the election and they couldn’t tell the interviewer anything about Obama.

    • DaveH

      ACORN is operated as a non-profit organization.
      In general, nonprofit organizations described under Section 501(c)(3) of the tax code may engage in lobbying and other advocacy activities within certain limits. Specifically, the code provides that “no substantial part” of the activities of such organizations can involve “carrying on propaganda, or otherwise attempting, to influence legislation,” and that such organizations cannot “participate in, or intervene in (including the publishing or distributing of statements), any political campaign on behalf (or in opposition to) any candidate for public office.”
      Do you honestly believe that ACORN is following these rules?

      • eyeswideopen

        Close them down. But their influence is minimal at best. Voter verification is required in all states, so if fraudulent registrations were turned it, it really doesn’t matter, cause Mikey Mouse can only vote once. We should just close down Acorn, that would make the Republicans feel better and take away any doubt about the voters. However we will be open for inspections as 80% of electronic voting is controlled by ES&S. Diebold and Sequoia. ESS the largest owned by Omaha World Herald has solid ties to the Republican party,. Chuck Hagel was the past president. Votehere a world leading internet voting chairman is Bill Owens, the military assistant for Sec’s of Defense Dick Cheney and Frank Carlucci. Frank Carlucci sits on the board of Populex(another voting company) and his business partner is Geore H.Bush. The ties to the Republican Party cannot be disputed, see for yourself. http://www.dissidentvoice.org/articles8/Landes_vote.htm

        Another case of us screaming corruption while we have direct influence in the companies who count the votes. LOL

        • Rich

          Please look up the verification laws for Ohio as they are not as robust as those in Florida, most likely due to the issues Florida had with the Bush election. Also look up for Oregon because I know they, or maybe another state in the Pacific north west, had dead people voting still as little as 5 years ago.

          • eyeswideopen

            Rich,
            I can’t hold Acorn accountable for that, they don’t do the actual verifications, they only turn in registration paperwork. It is up to the local election boards to protect their citizens votes. I see alot of blame, when in reality, it is the states who are not upholding the integrity of the voting process. But I am willing to make us Republicans happy and get rid of our scape goat. I will wait patiently to see who we attack next. What is really funny is that they didn’t get that many voters registered. It averages about 10-15k per state. Let’s say it was 20k x 50 states would only equal about one million people. Obama won by 8.9 million. So they would have had to have been so efficient and compentent, to have had an impact, which I doubt, that they single handedly got the election for Obama. Doesn’t sound reasonable to me. Acorn is dead now, so we should be celebrating that the Dem’s did something right!!!!

          • Rich

            eyeswideopen,

            I don’t disagree with your points, was just saying why it was important. Sometimes it takes us recognizing the symptom to realize the real issue.

          • eyeswideopen

            Rich, I took your advice and am just appalled, what is wrong with these states? I think I’m getting a headache. Where is common sense? I didn’t think you were disagreeing. I just can’t believe that the Republican party makes all these attacks, yet it dosen’t attempt to fix anything. If you have states with dead people voting, why haven’t we done anything positive about it? Why keep attacking the agency who merely registers the applicants? Why not get the states on board? Yep, I have a headache. Thanks for pointing out the examples for me. It is just so hard to believe we can clone a human, but we can’t have honest voting.

      • DaveH

        Some voter identification procedures are more robust than others.
        Nevertheless, photo IDs are not that hard to acquire fraudulently. My son showed me a driver’s license (with photo) when he was 19 that showed he was 21 (not with my approval of course). I couldn’t tell the difference between that and a real license. And the polling place personel sure don’t check that closely.
        Rules in different states:
        http://www.pewcenteronthestates.org/uploadedFiles/HAVA_Map2.pdf

        • eyeswideopen

          Come on Dave, you know that fraud can and will be committed in every facet of live. It is impossible to stop fraud with a 100% accurracy. If that were possible, we could stop these politicans from lying to us and committing the biggest fraud of all. The banks wouldn’t have a problem if fraud could be controled. Well, I guess we in Florida should be happy that we had one of the biggest voter violations in the history of this country, as now we have strict laws protecting our voices. Ironic isn’t it? Government stepped up to the plate for once and did their job. Of course it sad that our system had failed, and put a man in office, who upon recount and Supreme Court ruling, shouldn’t have been there, but hey, that’s life ! LOL

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            Yeah, like having Blank Panthers with guns at the voting booths, then all charges get dismissed. Dont ever be surprised at what the left can do and get away with. Ever seen Clinton’s death list? Quite impressive, and most of it cant be refuted.

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          Dave, you and I have both taken the time to get educated, and we know what a sorry lot these lepers from ACORN are, and for guys like “eyes” and Don to try to back them up, just proves the ignorance of the left, or their ability to lie without batting an eye. One or the other.

        • American Citizen

          Another things that happens is that they don’t purge voter lists when people move from that precinct. I know this because every time we vote, I see my daughter’s name on the list. I tell them every time to cross her off as she is married and lives in another town. They put a line through it and the next election, there’s her name again. She could vote where she lives and then come here and vote under her maiden name. That may be how dead people get to vote. The names are not purged and someone can pretend to be that person.

  • DaveH
  • DaveH

    The Federal Government and the Constitution which they swear to uphold:
    http://blogs.healthfreedomalliance.org/blog/2009/09/16/health-care-reform-and-the-constitution/

  • DaveH

    Our Government in Action. Government is force, not reason:

    http://www.healthfreedomusa.org/?p=3532

    • DaveH

      I believe that forcing people to accept vaccination is a sure sign of tyranny. Whether there are real dangers from the vaccination or not, the government has no business forcing people to accept having foreign proteins or other chemicals being injected into their bloodstream. Only Big Government could even dream of doing that to their citizens.

      • Rich

        Please elaborate how requiring the population to get a flu shot is any different than requiring them to get a polio shot, which we are. I am not saying your wrong just want to understand how this, unless the vaccine is still in trials, is any different than requiring us to get vaccinated for anything else.

        • eyeswideopen

          Rich, I agree, while in the military, we had to get: smallpox, typhus, typhoid, malaria, polio, all these were to protect us and our citizens when we went to or came back from a foreign country. If we hadn’t made vaccines mandatory, we would still have many of the childhood disease’s.

      • DaveH

        There is much controversy about the dangers of vaccination. Right or wrong, it is nobody’s business to decide for us what risks we should take. If we can’t determine what risks we take to our own bodies, then how can anybody state we are free. Free to do what – live our lives the way others tell us to?
        The military example is weak as of course you are not free once you sign up to the military.
        If indeed a vaccine is effective, then anyone accepting the vaccination would be safe. Only the refusers would be at risk. So, what business is it of yours who chooses to refuse?

        • Rich

          Both of my children were required to get vaccinations before going to school, which included polio and some of the more common childhood illnesses that we have basically made non-existent in the US, is where I was coming from and why I asked for the elaboration. As I said I am not in any disagreement only asked for elaboration. If your saying ‘my body, my right’ I can’t dispute that. Just making sure I understood where you were coming from.

          • DaveH

            I have suffered from Chronic Fatigue Immune Dyficiency Syndrome since age 26 (60 now). Before then, I seemed to be especially prone to illness. I can’t help but wonder if my immune system wasn’t compromised by all the vaccinations I received in my youth (40-50 years ago).

          • American Citizen

            Did you know that measles is on the rise due to children not getting the shots. Our children were born before they had them and got the measles. I had to keep them in a darkened room to protect their eyes. By the time our youngest was born, they had the vaccines for all the childhood diseases and she had none of them. The others all had measles, both German and 3 day, chickenpox, and mumps. Our youngest had none of them. The verdict is out on side effects as yet. As far as I could tell, none of our 6 was affected in any way by them. They were all A students in school. rarely sick and basically healthy and they still are.

  • DaveH

    The dangers of vaccination:

    http://blogs.healthfreedomalliance.org/blog/2009/08/28/early-and-current-fears-about-vaccine-dangers/

    I don’t want to hear from the Big Government apologists. I know you will find fault with the article, so save your comments. Your freedom ends where my body begins.

    • DaveH

      P.S. Liberals, I encourage you all to get vaccinated.

    • eyeswideopen

      Most of the American women agree with you… I do too.

  • Rich

    eyes,

    I took the anti-malaria vaccination and then the 6 months of anti-anti-malaria medications prescribed while in the military. I know this is carry over from another article which I did respond to, but I will say that it should be the person’s right to opt out, say no, or whatever you want to state when it comes to any vaccination. Now in the military that is not the case as you have signed your body over to the government as military property until such time as your end of service, not saying I completely agree just stating how it is. I often wonder if some of the lung problems and issues I have had since the military are or can be directly linked to those experimental medications we were given as vaccinations. I mean why would I need to take 6 months of a med to stop the problem with the original vaccination? I honestly can’t answer that and to be honest know I took some of the same meds given to the guys during the Gulf War, I was in Somalia. I fully intend not to have this vaccination as based on the information I have seen the hype is much worse than the illness. Less people have died from the H1N1 then we normally see die from the complications of the normal flu virus in those countries it has affected thus far. Does it seen reasonable to vaccinate for something that has such a low mortality rate? I mean I could also die from some other ailment just as easily and there is no cure, what ailment you ask well the common cold kills more world wide annually due to complications than the H1N1 has thus far.

    • American Citizen

      Have you noticed that most of those who have died were young? They say it’s because they didn’t yet have all the anti-viruses in their systems we older people do from having had the flu, etc. There were two teens in our district that have died from the swine flu. It is now rampant in some colleges and high schools. It is akin to the “kissing disease” problems there do you think?

    • eyeswideopen

      Rich, I totally agree with making your own decisions, what I don’t agree with is that our government and healthcare personel are trying to kill us or make us mindless nut cases. Modern medicine is a wonderful thing, but it always has it’s draw backs. I however like living in the 21st Century and appreciate how our standard of living has risen to this point. I have seen the poor and how they live and I am thankful every day that I was born in this country. I have an autoimmune disease and many times, I have wondered if it was caused by vac.s or shots or exposure to some bad environments, but since I can’t ever prove any of those theories, I will just appreciate that I didn’t get a horrific childhood disease. I am for each person making their own decisions about their bodies, regardless of religious affiliations or political parties.

  • James

    From a Canadian’s perspective, our Healthcare is great, I have no complaints at all! We don’t have Healthcare premiums to worry about at the end of every month….also, any surgery (other than plastic) isn’t considered “experimental” these loopholes are what American Healthcare corporations use to get out of paying out a claim. I have absolutely no faith in a privatized healthcare system, they’re not in business for your health & well being.

  • MJpayne

    I like to know where you morons come from thinking the Canadian system is bad medicine. I am an American who is a us citizen who can’t get heath care. I tried to get health insurance from Aetna, United Health Care, and the Blues(Blue cross and blue Seal). Due to my High Blood Pressure I can’t Even get Health Insurance to see a doctor to get treatment.
    I have one question to all these conservatives Out their who cry over abortions and Death panels. Where is my right to life when the health insurance death panels(above mentioned)Denies me care that can save my life and may be save your grand kids money( Your kids will have to pay my medical bill If I can’t pay my medical Bill). another point is how many kids are being aborted because the mom can’t afford to have the child.
    In closing I will remind you why Health care is so expensive. One is that health Insurance I hard to get and expensive(some thing health care reform tring to solve) and finally due to the fact many can’t get health insurance when they get sick the do what I do and go to the emergency Room.
    At least in Canada one can see a doctor anytime and not be broke. The care is better due to the fact the Medical staff are not being greedy and being rushed by HMO(hand money Over). As for death pannles unlike Canada The private health insurance company here in the USA all ready have them. Don’t believe me try getting health insurance with a preexisting condition or If you are lucky to have Health Insurance one night look at the contract that the insurance company gave you when they wrote your policy. You will see things like anual limits of payment, even life time limits, and finally Charge back clauses.
    thing to think about

    • eyeswideopen

      MJ. you should know by now that us Americans, think we know everything about everything. We are able to critize everyone else, because we are experts on absoutely everything. LoL.

  • Rich

    eyeswideopen,

    I am confused, when did I imply ‘what I don’t agree with is that our government and healthcare personel are trying to kill us or make us mindless nut cases’? I have never thought, stated nor implied thinking in that manner. I have poked fun of or made light of comments made by others to that regard. I have only stated that I took experimental drugs, while in the military, because I was required to at that time. Now, with the minimal risk associated to the illness of any complications I do not intend to be inoculated for it. I am only asking you because you responded to me and even after re-reading my comment have no clue where this is coming from in response to me, now I see others that have posted in a fashion to lead this way, but I have never stated the government is trying to kill me or anyone.

  • American Patriot

    My husband and I moved to Edmonton in 2005. We intended to become Canadian citizens and incurred a large expense in excess of $25,000 USD to close investments, prepare our Houston house for sale and make the move. Upon experiencing the Canadian health care, we were horrified. It was primitive, inefficient and pretty much nonexistent compared to the U.S. We forfeited the down payment on a one year old house, resigned from two wonderful jobs and moved back to the U.S.

  • Patriot Gal

    Taxes: I lived in Canada for two years. I did not have to pay U.S. taxes on the income I earned in Canada during that time. I did have to file U.S. 1040 and claim the little bit of income I earned the month (Jan) before I moved to Canada and the little bit of income I earned in Dec,. when I returned. I did not have to pay U.S. taxes on the Canadian Income I earned in the year I returned to the U.S.

    Health care: I had no problem getting in to see my doc. there. My husband had to wait in line for E.R. treatment at a major hospital there as many people will go to the hosp. there like medicaid recipients do here. I still had to pay for my provincial healthcare (which correlates to our Medicare A benefits here. I then had to purchase BC/BS through my job at the health authority which was a major medical policy like we have here. All in all, I paid similar to the health care coverage I had as a state employee in Illinois. There was a deductable to pay at the hospital E.R.

    So, Canadian health insurance is NOT free and people have to wait in long lines, there are months of waits for certain procedures and Health Canada doesn’t cover what they decide isn’t an issue. For example, they say Lyme Disease doesn’t exist in Canada, so they don’t have to pay for all the suffering people up there. Our nephew had to pay for his own colonoscopy screen because Health Canada in B.C. said he was too young to have it done and even though the polyp was the largest benign polyp the doc had ever seed, it was not yet cancerous.(his father and two uncles have had colon CA, his father and one uncle dying of it). So, I think Canada has good health care if you are one of the fortunate ones to get it and only if they cover what you have.

    Here’s an idea of some of the wait times in Alberta, Canada
    http://www.albertahealthservices.ca/761.asp

    I think our healthcare is much better in the U.S. and much more available. If the government gets its nose out of it and focuses on Tort Reform and deregulation of the insurance companies to keep costs down, we’d all me better off.

  • sara

    I live in Ecuador and it is a wonderful country. Its people are so nice and kind, they will give you the most warming welcome. I have put together a helpful fact sheet, and also an article on Ecuadorian manners and customs.

  • David Daniel Ruddy

    Ray and Berberoni are so full of ****. I moved to Canada some years ago and have never looked back. All of my relatives are still in the States and they are amazed at the health-care system here.
    I have never encountered waits for any medical care [and I have had plenty of them]. When an emergency strikes I have had instant responce and no worries about how I am going to pay for it.
    I have a government-paid insurance policy with Sun Life and I get back 80% of my drug and other bills and the 20% I do pay is tax deductable. I never even consider, for one moment, how I am going to pay for any medical proceedure.
    As a result, if for no other reason, I would not consider moving back to New York.

  • bob

    which do you think is one of a few countries that is first to obey its marching orders from the global puppet masters??/ … canada…my country…you americans have the best country in the world….fight for it…

  • Stuart Ashley

    Wow; what a wide ranging and acrimonious discussion generated by the commentator’s original observation that it may save some individuals money to move to canada and give up US citizenship. How many of the respondants have lived, or are living, in Canada? I suggest the others absorb more and transmit less. I lived four years in Surrey, BC, Canada as a Landed Immigrant. That’s a legal status that does not require giving up citizenship of country of origin. I found the people to be very accepting. The taxes are somewhat higher, but the tendency to spend, spend, spend is less. I did not avail myself of the medical system, so I cannot comment on that. There is no doubt that it is a beautiful country. For those who find the cost of living in Canada too high, I suggest you check out Costa Rica, where I lived as an Inversionista (another legal status that does not require relinquishment of citizenship) for eight years. Or check out Panama, where I have never lived, but hear it is now giving Costa Rica a run for it’s money. The cost of living in both places is about half what it is in the USA.
    Cheers! Stu.

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