Edward Snowden: Traitor Or Hero?

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Edward Snowden

In today’s column, I’m going to share an extraordinary email exchange between a former U.S. Senator and Edward Snowden, the infamous betrayer of Washington secrets. I think I can promise that it will cause you to look at this controversy in a whole new way.

By now, you can almost feel a bit sorry for Snowden, the whistle-blower extraordinaire who has been forced to remain in the transit area of Moscow’s Sheremetyevo Airport for more than a month. I’ve been stuck at a lot of different airports over the years, and it was never fun. And none of them, thank God, was in Russia.

Now comes word that the Russian authorities will finally permit Snowden to leave the airport while they consider his application for asylum. I have no idea why it took so long. Like bureaucracies everywhere, the ones in Moscow apparently move at their own glacial pace.

So what do you think? Is Snowden a traitorous dog who deserves the harshest penalties the United States can impose on him (if U.S. authorities can ever get their hands on him, that is)?

Or is he an authentic American hero who sacrificed a comfortable life to bring us the truth about how far our government has gone to snoop on all of us? Even the members of the intelligence committees in Congress, who supposedly knew all about the secretive surveillance being carried out by the National Security Agency and other government watchdogs, say they have been shocked to learn of the extent of what was going on.

Two weeks ago, I had the opportunity to ask more than 1,000 liberty lovers what they thought of Snowden. I was the master of ceremonies at something called FreedomFest, an annual conference that describes itself as “the world’s largest gathering of free minds.” Most of the attendees would probably describe themselves as libertarians, although traditional conservatives were certainly well-represented, both in the audience and at the podium.

When I asked the audience for their opinion of Snowden and what he did, I expected them to be fairly evenly divided. It was not even close. Fewer than 10 percent raised their hands when I asked if they thought he should be prosecuted for revealing state secrets. The overwhelming majority — by a rough estimate, more than 85 percent of the audience — said he deserved our praise and thanks for helping to expose what one speaker referred to as “the surveillance state.”

Shortly after returning home, I received a fascinating email exchange between Snowden and a former politician I remember fondly. Gordon J. Humphrey was a two-term Senator from New Hampshire. Here is the message he sent Snowden, via Glen Greenwald, the writer for The Guardian in London who broke the story of Snowden’s incredible disclosures:

Mr. Snowden,

Provided you have not leaked information that would put in harms (sic) way any intelligence agent, I believe you have done the right thing in exposing what I regard as massive violation of the United States Constitution.

Having served in the United States Senate for twelve years as a member of the Foreign Relations Committee, the Armed Services Committee and the Judiciary Committee, I think I have a good grounding to reach my conclusion.

I wish you well in your efforts to secure asylum and encourage you to persevere.

Kindly acknowledge this message, so that I will know it reached you.

Regards,
Gordon J. Humphrey
Former United States Senator
New Hampshire

Humphrey received the following email from Snowden. Its authenticity was also confirmed by Greenwald.

Mr. Humphrey,

Thank you for your words of support. I only wish more of our lawmakers shared your principles – the actions I’ve taken would not have been necessary.

The media has distorted my actions and intentions to distract from the substance of Constitutional violations and instead focus on personalities. It seems they believe every modern narrative requires a bad guy. Perhaps it does. Perhaps, in such times, loving one’s country means being hated by its government.

If history proves that be so, I will not shy from that hatred. I will not hesitate to wear those charges of villainy for the rest of my life as a civic duty, allowing those governing few who dared not do so themselves to use me as an excuse to right these wrongs.

My intention, which I outlined when this began, is to inform the public as to that which is done in their name and that which is done against them. I remain committed to that. Though reporters and officials may never believe it, I have not provided any information that would harm our people – agent or not – and I have no intention to do so.

Further, no intelligence service – not even our own – has the capacity to compromise the secrets I continue to protect. While it has not been reported in the media, one of my specializations was to teach our people at DIA how to keep such information from being compromised even in the highest threat counter-intelligence environments (i.e. China).

You may rest easy knowing I cannot be coerced into revealing that information, even under torture.

With my thanks for your service to the nation we both love,

Edward Snowden

So what do you think of that? When he talks about media distortions that are being done “to distract from the substance of Constitutional violations,” Snowden sounds like a columnist for Personal Liberty Digest™, doesn’t he?

And when he wonders if “loving one’s country means being hated by its government,” he sounds like many of our readers.

Right now, there’s only one thing keeping me from coming down 100 percent on the side of “hero.” And that is the path Snowden has chosen to follow since those first incredible disclosures.

When the story first broke, I was impressed that this obscure contractor was willing to turn his life upside down to expose the truth about the NSA’s massive surveillance efforts. “Good for him,” was my first reaction. What an incredibly brave thing to do, I thought, knowing that he would immediately become the declared enemy of the most powerful government on Earth.

But it’s not civil disobedience if you’re not willing to face the consequences of your actions. I hoped that Snowden would come back to the United States and face his accusers in an open and public trial. Instead, he fled to China and then on to Russia — two countries that aren’t exactly known for a commitment to the freedom of their own citizens. And if he ever gets permission to leave Russia, he’s indicated that he might like to settle in Venezuela or Bolivia — two countries that are a lot closer to a “dictatorship of the proletariat” than anything resembling the Constitutional protections that we have long taken for granted.

What’s next? Anatoly Kucherena, Snowden’s Russian attorney, told CNN: “As far as I know, he’s planning to stay in Russia to learn Russian culture, Russian language and (to) live here.” If he does, it won’t be anything like his life in Hawaii before all this happened, where Snowden himself said he lived in “paradise.”

Our government has asked Russia to extradite Snowden back to the United States, but it doesn’t sound like Russian President Vladimir Putin has any intention of granting that request. (There is no extradition treaty between the two countries.) Putin has said that Snowden will need to “stop his work aimed at harming our American partners” if he wants to remain in the country.

Meanwhile, both Venezuela and Bolivia have said they would be delighted to grant asylum to Snowden. And Nicaragua has said it would do so “if circumstances permit,” whatever that means.

Oh, and one more thing. When Greenwald contacted Humphrey, to confirm the authenticity of his original email, Humphrey expanded on what he wrote Snowden:

I object to the monumentally disproportionate campaign being waged by the U.S. Government against Edward Snowden, while no effort is being made to identify, remove from office and bring to justice those officials who have abused power, seriously and repeatedly violating the Constitution of the United States and the rights of millions of unsuspecting citizens.

Americans concerned about the growing arrogance of our government and its increasingly menacing nature should be working to help Mr. Snowden find asylum. Former Members of Congress, especially, should step forward and speak out.

Count me among those willing to speak out. I’d love to see us bring to justice those officials who have “abused power, seriously and repeatedly violating the Constitution of the United States.” Wouldn’t you?

In the meantime, I think we owe Snowden a huge “thank you” for what he’s done to expose the Big Brother surveillance taking place in what used to be the land of the free and the home of the brave. Now it seems we’re the not-so-free and the not-very-brave.

Until next time, keep some powder dry.

–Chip Wood

Chip Wood

is the geopolitical editor of PersonalLiberty.com. He is the founder of Soundview Publications, in Atlanta, where he was also the host of an award-winning radio talk show for many years. He was the publisher of several bestselling books, including Crisis Investing by Doug Casey, None Dare Call It Conspiracy by Gary Allen and Larry Abraham and The War on Gold by Anthony Sutton. Chip is well known on the investment conference circuit where he has served as Master of Ceremonies for FreedomFest, The New Orleans Investment Conference, Sovereign Society, and The Atlanta Investment Conference.

  • jose

    Why is the traitor at the white house judging a real hero????

    • Quester55

      Your Answer; the Bully in the School Yard would Bloody his Own Face, Run to the Office & report that “Innocent You”, had just Clobbered Him in an Unfair Fight, Guess what the Outcome would be in your case?
      Innocent or Guilty, You would be Punished for the Crimes of the Bully!
      In this case, OBAMA is playing the roll of the Bully & The Rest of us age getting the Blame!!

    • Shorty Stuff

      Because the traitor in the white house knows Snowden has something on him and his house full of scum (maybe he found his college records}. Snowden had to leave the country because the NDAA gave Obama permission to arrest and detain indefinitely without due process or the need of making any charges. And they even kill anyone who they feel are threats.

  • Harold Olsen

    I have mixed feelings about Snowden. He’s a traitor because he revealed secret information about our government. That is treason. However, we have a corrupt government and the people running it are crooks and, in my opinion, are themselves guilty of treason. So, I guess that makes Snowden an heroic traitor.

    • vicki

      Why does our government have ANY secrets from their employers (US)?

      • Quester55

        Simply stated, they are Selfish & Greedy Crooks & Don’t want to share their Secrets. Besides, If you were Selling out your Bosses Secrets, Would you want some strangers to Find out what you were doing?

      • j

        Look at what “us”, the employers, have become. Walk around NY and see all the other nation’s flags flying, being flown by people who have moved to the USA, but maintain their devotions to their native country. We aren’t “Americans” anymore, we are a melting pot, and our government has been the one to build the pot. Who do you trust? If our borders were secured, our immigration laws and rules inforced, we could go back to being “America”. The government has caused all this, and majority of what they are watching are all of those people they have allowed to enter the USA, mainly from the middle east. It’s madness.

        • vicki

          If we were a “melting pot” why have they not assimilated (The meaning of “melting pot”)

        • TheOriginalDaveH

          The immigrants are just scapegoats. Our economic problems are solely the result of despotic Leaders meddling in every aspect of our lives and creating disincentives for hard work.
          Government now spends 40% of our GDP, and they use a large portion of that money to harass productive people. So it’s a double whammy. Imagine somebody not only helping themselves to 40% of your earnings, but also blocking your car so you can’t get to work easily.

      • Nadzieja Batki

        For the simple reason that the government believes the American people are immature and they in government set themselves up as our protectors.
        The government sees the American people as inept to take care of themselves physically, mentally, spiritually, legally.

        • vicki

          Actually they treat the American people as slaves or worse.

        • TheOriginalDaveH

          Nad,
          That’s the generous point of view. But I believe the Government suffers under no such delusions. They might express such to their constituents, but the stark reality is that they are just covering their own butts.

      • TheOriginalDaveH

        Rhetorical question, I know. But I will answer as if it isn’t:
        Because the secrets are to protect the Leaders, NOT the citizens.

    • dan

      it wasn’t much of a secret if I already knew…but then i’m a tech and a geek (and socially awkward,sigh) who knew about Echelon and other sleight of hand monitoring….the relevance is that the NSA has abandoned all pretense at protecting privacy by STORING private data
      in perpetuity …where anyone with the right political connections can and WILL gain access.

    • denise0513

      Snowden didn’t reveal a secret. He just gave a great many of us the proof we needed.

      • Nadzieja Batki

        denise0513, proof of what? That agency or no such agency was talked and laughed about when I was a kid, so why hasn’t anybody paid attention to what they were doing. Somebody funded it, provided it with up to date equipment, set it up and maintained the equipment and did upgrades as equipment wore down. Somebody does security checks on people they hire, somebody cleans their bathrooms and cleans their offices, etc..

        • denise0513

          A great many of us knew the federal government was watching us and Snowden just told us we were right in believing the government was watching.

  • Whackajig

    Snowden sure as chit did not do what he did for monetary gain. He may have wished to be in the limelight but I think he wished the public to see what sneaky things our goverrnment is doing.

  • Keith.R. Dales

    Hello ,I am not a citizen of the USA, but my Government supports your government ,Australia and the USA are as close as brothers .
    I do not think that Snowdon should be prosecuted the administration has flouted the constitution of your country and they should be brought to “justice “.
    But how , they have spent over a billion $ on dumdum bullets to keep you under control ( Home Security )
    They are in control of the judiciary . Ike Eisenhower warned you back in the early 50’s He was right
    Please do not think that Australia is much better it is not.
    Best Wishes Keith D.

  • Ron Alinen

    The traitor is in the White House and should be impeached

    • Quester55

      No Ron, [threatening comment removed] The Best way to END TREASON in the Ranks. If not Shot, Then Borrow France’s Guillotine, & put it to some Good Use.

      • dan

        I’d phrase it as : “retired …with extreme prejudice’

  • Nathan Hale

    The Republic and public trust is benefited by truth. The so called public servants actually just imposters in the employ of the various Fedcorp entities, are out to protect their interests by subterfuge and fraud. That is where treason comes into the picture. Snowden is a hero.

  • Quester55

    I remember when the First Case of a Whistle Blower was reported on the News, I don’t remember the Cause, But the Effects of the Blower, Was felt for Months too come.
    In this case, What ED did or Maybe Didn’t do, Was called for. State Secrets Held from Those that Put those Fools in office, Should always be viewed by the people.
    This is NO LONGER the Cold War Years, Why treat The American Citizens, like it Did back then???

    • dan

      The police state loves secrecy like cock-roaches love the dark…. EVERYTHING is classified and they scoff at the FOIA requests
      and BURY whistleblowers.
      The mainstream media knows it and that’s why they’ve decided to collude with the powers that be.

      • TheOriginalDaveH

        The MSM sides with the PTBs because they are owned by the same Crony Capitalists who roam the halls of Government seeking special privilege over their non-political competitors.

  • SunEast 孫東

    The US media? Didn’t everyone read Edward Griffin’s “Creature from Jekyll Island” yet? All western media and anything that has influential element have long been bought by the global elites.
    Many, many years ago I was going to join the LAPD. After passing the written test the interviewer asked me a peculiar question: “What will I do if I caught my partner violating a crime?” My answer was to stop him if I can; however, if he/she has already committed the crime I would arrest him/her.

    The interviewer failed me and he said that I should keep it within the department and protect my partner… it’s brotherhood.

    Denzel Hayes Washington’s “Training Day” portrayed them so well!

  • chvietvet

    Our government is run entirely by traitors who have betrayed our Constitution and rule of law. In 1997, I blew the whistle on an offer of a $20,000 bribe from two employees of the U.S. Forest Service to induce me to withdraw from a federal civil service selection. As a combat veteran of the Vietnam War, I was blocking the hiring certificate for a much less qualified non-veteran the agency personnel wanted to hire. I did not leak information to the media or report the offer to any people outside government. My complaint went to the U.S. Office of Special Counsel and to a senator. My charges were verified, and I was offered a job in Olympia, Washington. The Forest Service then hired a person from another agency with experience firing scientists, and she was assigned to build a case for firing me for poor performance before the end of the probationary year. The matter went before the Merit System Protection Board (MSPB), which is an administative kangaroo court set up by Congress to always rules in favor of the agency, no matter how much evidence shows that the agency is wrong. Two Forest Service witnesses were shown unequivocally to have committed perjury during the hearings, but the administrative judge simply said that the MSPB is not a criminal court and therefore takes no action against perjurers. Perjury is a felony, but it is solicited from ageny witnesses by MSPB judges, as I found out later. There was not one scrap of evidence that my performance had not been superior to most other scientists working for the Forest Service, so the administrative judge, Sidney Farcy, simply made up two fully absurd examples of alleged poor performance. One of these had been shown to be completely false by two agency witnesses during the hearing. Next, the Forest Service began contacting other employers to make sure that I would never find work again. I filed discrimination lawsuits against the employers who took the advice of Forest Service personnel and hired less qualified non-veterans, but the courts in Washington State are corrupt and the complaints were dismissed illegally before any evidence could be presented. A lawsuit filed in federal court is still pending about six years after it was originally filed. The strategy for handling any appeal filed by a Vietnam War veteran is to delay all procedures until the veteran dies. During the past year, burglars robbed my house twice. Among the things stolen was my passport. Usually, it takes me more than a day just to get a policeman on the phone to provide evidence. The federal government charged me extra fees to promptly replace the passport. Apparently, nobody cares that a stolen passport could be used by a terrorist to smuggle an atom bomb into the country, so the thieves still seem to have the passport, using it to forge checks and remove money from my bank account. Apparently, Homeland Security does not have time to find out what stolen passports are being used for because they are too busy throwing cripples out of wheelchairs and torturing small children at airports as well as spying on veterans, who were identified by Janet Napolitano as “potential terrorists.” Our news media are staffed by the real criminals, and they make up stories to cover up for the other criminals presently running our government. Snowden did nothing wrong. He did not spy for any foreign power, and our Constitution strongly protects anyone telling the people about crimes by government employees. We owe no form of loyalty whatever to the traitors who have been running our government since the Vietnam War. Government officers that their oath to the United States Constitution and not to any person, criminal or not. What we really owe our government officials is rooms with bars on the door in a federal prison. That goes for our former presidents, as well. We should also save some of our scorn for our dishonest and corrupt journalists, who refuse to print the truth about what our government is doing.

  • SunEast 孫東

    Mr. Snowden should have secured himself a second passport way before this.
    Lesson learned too late as Simon said.

  • Beachtennisguy

    When I worked indirectly for the NSA, it’s mission was foreign signals intelligence. The massive collection of data about hundreds of millions of innocent American citizens, without probable cause, is not foreign signals intelligence in my opinion.

    Everything in America is being federalized by this corrupt, lawless, unconstitutional, Statist regime. Americans must choose between Statism and the Constitution. Those who choose Statism are traitors in my view. That includes the Fraud in the White House and his lackeys. Let’s see every one of them prosecuted first, like that Statist witch Lois Lerner, living big on the backs of the taxpayers while taking the Fifth in order to cover-up her misdeeds as part of this regime’s tyrannical misuse of the IRS.

    This regime seems far more serious about controlling average Americans than it is about counter-terrorism. Otherwise it would close the border and focus surveillance on jihadists.

    Snowden seems to be on the side of the Constitution, and deserves whistle blower status until proven otherwise. We have enemies abroad but the biggest threats to our freedom and prosperity seem to be right here at home, living big in the federal government at our expense.

    • TheOriginalDaveH

      “The natural progress of things is for liberty to yeild, and government to gain ground” — Thomas Jefferson

      • SunEast 孫東

        After July 4th 1776 the independence of the United States of America
        from Great Britain and its king was accomplished. After the exhausting fight
        was over and while structuring the new country was in process came a man name
        Alexander Hamilton, who served as the first secretary of the treasury and
        helped place the finances and credit of the new government on a sound footing.
        He became President Washington’s most influential adviser and engaged in a
        series of bitter quarrels with Thomas Jefferson over foreign policy, the scope
        of presidential power, and the direction of the American economy. Washington
        generally sided with Hamilton in these disputes, and Jefferson eventually left
        the Cabinet, convinced that Hamilton was a pernicious influence on the
        President.

        Few people understand that Alexander Hamilton was an actual agent of The
        Rothschild family. Even fewer people know, or understand, that Hamilton married
        in to the Rothschild family, and therefore more than an agent he is actual
        family himself.

        Today we have a more sophisticated version of yesterday’s central banking
        system, known as the Federal Reserve Bank. Thanks to the handiwork of
        subversion of Alexander Hamilton and the US Constitution, Americans are
        economic slaves to the Rothschild family.

  • charliehanna

    Since so much is being done by our government to protect our “Saudi
    backed oil dollar,” I really wonder if some of Snowden’s hidden
    information shows how the USA is declaring illegal wars to protect the
    fiat American dollar, and the corresponding Euro. Just look at all the
    countries that the USA is bringing to ruin, including Syria and Iran
    (which are obviously targeted). They were all pursuing gold backed
    currency rather than the almighty dollar. Should that ever be allowed,
    the value of gold will skyrocket and we’ll see the most disastrous
    dollar inflation imaginable.

    Look at two of the giant
    countries offering asylum to Snowden: Russia and China. They are both
    involved with Brazil and a few other countries to develop an alternative
    to the USA dollar’s rein as the leading world currency. It’s all really
    about to implode, and when the explanation is exposed, it will happen
    just a little faster.

    • SunEast 孫東

      It’s called “BRICS” Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa.
      There are more countries joining in as we speak. It is a basket of currencies instead of one country rules all BS.

      • charliehanna

        Thanks, SunEast. I’m interested in seeing the other countries to join.
        Let’s look hard at the Euro Pacific Bank and the Bitcoin. They are both completely logical. And we will need something when the dollar implodes.

        • dan

          I hope the Rockefellers (Standaed Oil) and the House of Windsor(BP) , the Royal Dutch Shell and Aramco (Saudis)all poop BRICS….but they’ll just convert and the USA will end up as screwed as everyone else since we went off the gold standard to finance our endless wars on drugs and terror with Fed fiat money.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            The decline started when Government became the bodyguard for Big Banks that were fraudulently practicing Fractional Reserve Banking:
            http://mises.org/Books/historyofmoney.pdf

          • KG

            Or when Ougah, the caveman, put up a fence and convinced everyone else that the land was his.

            Misies = wasn’t too sure who would win WWII so he hedged his bets on the “merits” of Fascism.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            More nonsense and slander from our comrade KGB.

          • WhatWall

            Please ignore the troll. He isn’t deserving of even one second of your attention. He isn’t contributing anything to the discussion except diversion and dischord.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            I could, but then innocent readers may get poisoned by his comments.

          • WhatWall

            A worthy sentiment, but you can’t protect people from illogical thinking, lack of reason, or inability to discern truth. You can teach critical thinking by example of rational discussion, by refusal to stoop to ad hominem, and by ignoring those who are incapable of reason.

            KG is very clear about his position. If he could express it without ad hominem, bomb throwing and thread derailment, it would be worth discussing in the appropriate forum.

          • SunEast 孫東

            Went off gold to counterfeit money. They needed to get the gold and silver certificates off the market and circulate the Federal Reserve notes, which is just a peace of paper promising you so much gold or silver. So now when this piece of paper no longer represent the amount of gold or silver it is just…funny money. 1973 on forward quarters, dimes were counterfeited with other metals instead of 90% silver. Federal Reserve Bank is not Federal, there’s no reserve and not a bank. They started with just a self made check book. Further reading: Creature from Jekyll Island. All you mentioned above: Rockefeller and etc… are owned financed by the Rothschilds.

      • TheOriginalDaveH

        It would be much better if the citizens of all countries could freely choose their own money (natural money). Better for the citizens, but worse for the Leaders.
        http://mises.org/books/whathasgovernmentdone.pdf

    • TheOriginalDaveH
  • dan

    It must be remembered that Paul Revere was a ‘traitor’ to the Crown as were all the other Revolutionary secessionists/patriots.

  • Stuart Shepherd

    He’s both! and it’s that simple. If he was participating in something (making him his comfortable living!!) he could not condone, then he had the (internal) moral responsibilibty to blow the whistle and or resign FROM WITHIN THE US and even face death (which I’m pretty sure the growingly totalitarian regime is capable of, given their refusal to limit the possibility of drone attacks on aerican citizens, among the other thug tactics of the left and particularly the current false totalitarian regime. He’s cozying up to Russia and China and Venezuela, for goodness sake! Do you really think he’s a patriot? He’s both RIGHT AND A COWARD. It IS possible, you know!!!!!

    • dan

      it’s not cowardice for a man to take up smoking when facing the firing squad…it’s the Knoweledge that each minute is precious and worth preserving.
      He knew the cost of this going into it….but he also knew how whistleblowers are silenced by the heavy hand of the police state….

    • WhatWall

      So refusal to be a martyr equals cowardice? AFAIK, Snowden hasn’t issued any statements in support of the governments of Russia, China, Venezuela, or Iceland. I’m willing to let this play out a little more before labeling him as a coward.

  • Jimmy the Greek

    Snowden did what was right !

  • flygirlnsky

    Snowden is my hero! I pray for his safety while awaiting more truism!

  • KG

    What make Snowden any different form, say Julius and Ethel Rosenberg? Was it the fact that he ‘exposed’ something that was really creepy and weird?

    quote:

    When he talks about media distortions that are being done “to distract from the substance of Constitutional violations,” Snowden sounds like a columnist for Personal Liberty Digest™, doesn’t he?

    Yes – a paranoid self-righteous deluded sunshine ‘Patriot’ that depends on peoples fears more than their intellect. Is that white crystalline powder doing you any good, Chip?

    • Alex

      Too bad they electrocuted Julius and Ethel instead of Ron and Nancy….

      • TheOriginalDaveH

        More “compassion” from Alex. What else would we expect from a Liberal Progressive than inconsistency?

        • WTS/JAY

          I think Alex needs a hug and a good-spanking; and not necessarily in that order. Alex is a good example of liberal, non-parenting!

      • WhatWall

        Alex = Troll.

      • MexicansaysLibtardsRpukes

        Go sit in a bath tub full of water and toss a TV while watching Libtard media in your bath water and electrocute yourself!

      • Don 2

        Too bad your mama didn’t have an abortion.

    • WhatWall

      KG, you start with an interesting question and then end with a personal attack on Chip. Yuck.

      • KG

        All is fair in love and war.

        • TheOriginalDaveH

          Especially if you’re a morally-bankrupt Communist in the first place.

          What motivates KGB?
          http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/05/beware-the-psychopath-my-son/

          • KG
          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Thanks for proving my point, KGB.
            Feel free to start your own competing company, KGB, to prove your worth. Or, find a job elsewhere instead of engaging in coercion against a company’s rightful owners.
            One would think that people would be grateful for being given a job in the first place. But not Unionists, who instead turn on those who have allowed them a chance to earn a living.

          • KG

            Quote: “…allowed them a chance…”? You don’t sound like a ‘job creator’, you sound like “THE Creator.”
            Have a Megalomania complex? Or an Ego-complex?

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            It’s called Property Rights, KGB, and Voluntary Contract.
            You know, people respecting each other’s property and choices?
            You will succeed in making wrong into right, KGB, only with people who are too ignorant to understand the concept of Aggression.

          • WhatWall

            That is a fascinating article about the effect of psychopaths on civilization. The web site is a bit left-leaning but isn’t the original source of the psychopath materials, which I deem truthful.

        • WhatWall

          Your game is boring. No more troll food for you.

  • Sarah417

    I don’t think you’ve looked lately Mr. Woods but this is not America anymore. We are only an AR-15 away from a Marxist Dictatorship. Hang on to your guns because that is the only thing between us and the enemy.
    If Mr. Snowden had come back to America or had he told one of his superiors his findings I am sure that we would never have heard of Edward Snowden. He would be in prison somewhere unknown to all of us and his secret would never have been revealed to the American people.
    The MSM portrayed him as a loser, a high school dropout and that he was not to be believed and that he was only seeking the limelight.
    I consider him to be a hero and a patriot and hope that history portrays him as such.

  • Mike Eck

    Snowden really did not reveal anything new to those of us who have been paying attention to things outside MSM, but he did confirm what we already “knew” to be true. He should turn himself over to the criminal government of the USSA? Get real, there is no justice here for peons.

    Russ Tice, an NSA whistle blower from earlier times, was recently interviewed on Sibil Edmonds’ site, boilingfrogspost. Well worth your time, http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2013/06/19/podcast-show-112-nsa-whistleblower-goes-on-record-reveals-new-information-names-culprits/

  • red neck

    Everyone needs to understand the true reason behind the NSA spying… It is the collection of data from those who oppose this tyrannical regime and it is NOT to keep us “safe”… The collect information will be used for the extermination of those who are in opposition to this government…. The bible clearly tells us that there will be a “rapture” prior to Christ return the definition of this “rapture” is GENOCIDE…. And now there is news of the government demanding that internet providers give out our passwords in order for the government to access our accounts and further intrude in our personal lives…

    • Sarah417

      Don’t forget that the Tea Party and others are already considered terrorists. They have already (IRS) and will do anything to stop us. I believe that they are truly afraid of us and will do anything to silence us. We need to arrest them all for Crimes Against America and put them all in prison. We need to do it soon.
      Put the evidence in my hands and I will walk up the Capitol steps and make a citizen’s arrest. Anyone up for that?

      • red neck

        I do not and I never will watch obama on any news outlet but FOX news yesterday reported that obama has deemed all of his scandals to be phony and blaming the republicans for them. obama is the only thing that is PHONY! he is attempting to get the media up his arse to go along with his rhetoric of calling the scandals phony and dismissing their true intensions of heavy handed terrorist tactics from this government.

    • mark are

      Yawn….

  • steve

    if snowden stays in russia and walks around free there will be a hit put out on him by the cia. even though he might have been right to do what he did , he has embarrassed the president and he will fall for that reason.

    • mark are

      Yea, we sure can’t embarrass the emperor.

  • Nadzieja Batki

    Why did Snowden go to work for NSA? He knew that agency was about “snooping and compiling info” and yet he was willing to take their paychecks.
    Who is paying for Snowden’s maintenance while he is “hiding out”?

    • WhatWall

      Good questions. Are you questioning the truth of his NSA revelations?

    • Dave

      The news source that published Snowden’s info is paying for his food etc while he is in limbo. I am sure a legal entity that will eventually represent him is kicking in some dough… Anyone who is sympathetic to him can get money to them… The Russians enjoy it when we are having trouble and probably are helping… Pick any of them.

      • WhatWall

        “Why did Snowden go to work for NSA?” Then, “Who is paying for Snowden’s maintenance …?”

        Not sure I get your point. You seem to be implying that Snowden is not truthful about his motives. Just trying to understand exactly what you’re getting at.

  • Alex

    Look at the whining Teagaggers in their anti-Obama hysteria over the NSA spy ring!

    The Fright Wing GOP House—the LOWEST-rated House in its 200+ history! —voted yesterday AGAINST defunding the surveillance program. MORE Democrats than Repukes, in fact, voted in favor in reining-in the out of control program.

    Keep getting your “information” from Sean insHannity and drug-addicted pedophile Rush Limpjaw! You people are such suckers….

    • TheOriginalDaveH

      Another “compassionate” Liberal Progressive reveals his true self.

    • WhatWall

      It’s noteworthy that you use this situation to attack and polarize, whereas the key point should be that both Bush and Obama have grossly violated the Constitution they swore to uphold.

      The Left vs. Right framework is essential to undermining the Constitution and pitting us against each other. Politicians should be evaluated against the Constitution, not party affiliation.

      Persist in your ad hominem views and you will be labeled as a troll.

      • TheOriginalDaveH

        “will be”? Alex has been known as a Troll on this site for a very long time.

        • WhatWall

          Yeah, I’m late to the party but I always give ‘em one chance.

    • Nadzieja Batki

      No, but you are the sucker because you do no thinking. The “love” thing with O is clouding your brain.

  • Dave

    Snowden did one thing for this country… He is getting us to discuss this rapidly change world through technology. That is good.
    But Snowden signed a contract when he signed on. He violated that contract so he has broken the law. I don’t know the impact on national security with what he has leaked but based on violating his contract and if it is proven that he damaged our security, he needs to answer for that.
    Lets not forget… All you mindless Obama bashers… The Fisa Court’s 12 judges are appointed by conservative Supreme Court Judge John Roberts… 11 of the 12 judges were appointed by conservative president George W Bush. All approvals fo through them. Get angry at conservatives for proposing and passing the Patriot Act in the first place that have no public accountability on these courts.

    • TheOriginalDaveH

      Dave says — “But Snowden signed a contract when he signed on. He violated that contract so he has broken the law”.
      All Government officials swear to uphold the Constitution. That trumps any contract he may have signed.
      Dave says — “Get angry at conservatives for proposing and passing the Patriot Act in the first place that have no public accountability on these courts”.
      The “conservatives” (really Neo-Conservatives) couldn’t have passed the Patriot Act without the help of the majority of the Democrats. In fact only 1 Democrat in the Senate voted against it.

      • Dave

        Any conservative that doesn’tr do what DaveH or Bob likes is immediately a neo-Con. A BS term made up to excuse conservative bad behavior.
        Those Democrats who also voted for the UnPatriot Act will not get my vote either. ZERO cconservatives voted against the Patriot Act in the Senate.

        • TheOriginalDaveH

          True Conservatives adhere to the Rule of Law, not the Rule of Man. The term “conservative” has been greatly abused, as have so many terms in the English language. It is part of the strategy of Progressives (of all types) to muddy the language and keep people confused so they will more readily accept the Big Government that Progressives, like Dave, push.

          • Dave

            Conservatives are the breed that tried to stop civil rights, women’s rights…. Conservatives are the one who like to ban books because conservatuves hate new ideas. They like big Gov as much as anyone else but they want Gov to fund the war machine, farm subsidies and other areas that they are interested in.
            the term “Conservative” has been abused? Really? Not like you abusing the lerm liberal/progressive to describe anyone who disagrees with your propaganda? Or any other the authors here? Or youer friend JeffH?

            Do you get paid by the link? I see its the end of the month and you must be low on your quota.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Dave says — “Conservatives are the breed that tried to stop civil rights, women’s rights”.
            Do you know the difference between rights, Dave, and Government giving certain classes of people Special Privilege? Rights aren’t granted by Government. Government can only take away rights.

            Dave says — “Conservatives are the one who like to ban books because conservatuves hate new ideas”.
            Pure conjecture, Dave. Can you supply any evidence for your nonsensical claim?

            Dave says — “They like big Gov as much as anyone else but they want Gov to fund the war machine, farm subsidies and other areas that they are interested in”.
            Those are NeoConservative Progressives, Dave, with the emphasis on “Progressive”. NeoCon Progressives are just the other side of the Progressive coin from Liberal Progressives.

            Dave says — “Not like you abusing the lerm liberal/progressive to describe anyone who disagrees with your propaganda?”.
            Liberals are those who advocate such things as environmentalism, free healthcare, redistribution of wealth, animal rights, etc. Progressives are those who want to force their agenda on others with Big Government.
            Do you support Government involvement in environmentalism, Dave?
            Do you support Government involvement in Healthcare, Dave?
            Do you support Government redistribution of wealth, Dave?

          • Dave

            Here is one link.

            http://lilacshrieks.hubpages.com/hub/The-HIstory-of-Banned-Books-in-America

            Victorian morality… the basis of conservative uptight nonsense

            Here is another

            http://www.pbs.org/newshour/extra/teachers/lessonplans/arts/july-dec11/bannedbooks_09-28.html

            This has conservatism written all over them… they excuse everything using the term “protect the kids” which is code for “I don’t like it”

            Types of Objections Against Books

            Profanity. Books are
            often challenged for the language they contain, even though profanity is often
            used in literature to convey social or historical context, local dialect or
            simply to better depict reactions to real-life situations. Books such as Of
            Mice and Men by John Steinbeck and Slaughterhouse-Five by Kurt Vonnegut have
            been challenged or banned due to objections to profanity.

            Read a
            letter protesting censorship of a student poetry reading due to objections
            of profanity.

            Sex. Books as varied as Judy Blume’s
            Forever, Vladimir Nabokov’s Lolita, and Maya Angelou’s I Know Why the Caged Bird
            Sings, among many others, have been challenged by parents and school boards who
            deem certain sexual passages inappropriate for young people. Works such as It’s
            Perfectly Normal by Robie Harris and Heather Has Two Mommies by Leslea Newman,
            among others, face demands for removal for their frank discussion and focus on
            gay/lesbian issues.

            Read a
            letter protesting censorship of Toni Morrison’s Beloved in a high school AP
            English course.

            Violence. Objections to violent content
            are often based on the idea that these works trivialize violence or desensitize
            readers to its effects. Books challenged on these grounds include One Fat
            Summer by Robert Lypsyte and Native Son by Richard Wright.

            Read
            NCAC’s letter protesting removal of Roll of Thunder, Hear My Cry by Mildred
            D. Taylor, on grounds that the book contains hate speech and would incite
            violence.

            Religion. Religious grounds have long been
            cited as reasons for censoring books. Reading translations of the Bible was
            once forbidden. Today, parents and ministers often object to works which
            discuss topics such as sex, evolution, or witchcraft or occult themes.

            DaveH once again points to the BS term “Neo-con”. DaveH, JeffH or Bob or any other writer here uses the term Neo-liberal, or Neo-Progressive. They just use the term liberal or progressive. Why? because nothing is ever a conservatuve’s fault. Its all the neo-con’s fault… then and liberals and progressives.
            Pure drivel.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            I didn’t see the word “conservative” anywhere in your articles, Dave.
            True Conservatives advocate small, Constitutional Government.
            You are confusing Conservatives with NeoConservatives who are not Conservative at all, but rather Progressives who, like the Liberal Progressives, want to use Big Government to Force their way on other people.
            You are just assuming, and you know what that makes you, Dave — Hee Haw.

          • Dave

            Again, useing a BS term to get out of the conservative histrory your side tries so desparately to hide. Liberals and progressives have much more to do with freedom and liberty than conservatives do and that fact burns you up.

            I am still waiting for anything social conservatives have done to forward the cause of equality and freedom from you in this country. All a sad little man like you can do is avoid the question. As I said earlier, you are a fraud.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Progressives are those people who think Government is the solution to all our ills. And Government is Force. So to say “Liberals and progressives have much more to do with freedom and liberty than conservatives do” is an oxymoron.

            Oxymoron: a combination of contradictory or incongruous words.
            From Greek words:
            Oxy — pointedly
            Moron — Dave

          • Dave

            You are a liar once again. I am almost feeling sorry for just such a sad sack such as you that has to lie about progressives at every turn.

            http://www.progressiveliving.org/progressivism.htm

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            From Dave’s article:
            “Progressivism is a political movement that represents the interests of ordinary people in their roles as taxpayers, consumers, employees, citizens, and parents”.
            That’s what they say. The truth — They want to tell you where to go to school, what kind of healthcare insurance you should pay for, what kind of job you should be allowed to do (licensing), what kind of energy you should use, …….., and even what kind of light-bulb you can use.
            I can’t wait to sign up — Right after I finish walking on hot coals.
            But don’t listen to me. The Leaders’ high lifestyles depend on you.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Thank you, Dave, for being the Liberal Progressive Poster Boy, and showing readers the true nature of the “compassionate” class.
            One Liberal Progressive commenter like you, Dave, is better than a thousand of my words when it comes to exposing you guys to the brainwashed minions.

          • Dave

            Compassion towards Conservatives?…. What did that get Jimmy Carter in 1980 against the lies and BS of Ronald Reagan?

            Nothing… instead, we became and even bigger slave to foreign oil and the size of Gov grew and the deficit tripled.

            Liberals have played nice for way too long. We need to play and the conservative level. That is why I call you a liar I am not a socialist, or a fan of “big Gov”. That is two reasons why you are liar.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            So, in other words, you want to pick and choose who to be “compassionate” with, but you want to do that with other peoples’ money. How convenient for you.
            Anybody who reads enough of your comments, Dave, knows who the “liar” is.
            You’re lowlife, Dave.

          • Barack Embalmer

            Look at all those down votes, Id say your pretty well getting your arse kicked here Dave. Sorry for the interruption, carry on!

          • Dave

            Do you and DaveH share a brain? I am a liberal poster on a conservative site loaded with other brainwashed conservatives who go along with their glorious leaders (the authors here) at every turn. My down comments means that I am doing my job exposing conservative lies and hypocrisy.

            DaveH is steaming mad because I expose him and he knows he cannot answer my question. He is a liar and a fraud. When someone disagrees with him, JeffH and the other conservative ilk, they get attacked for wanting “big gov”, that Gov is the solution to everything, or I am a socialist, communist or Marxist. (All DaveH lies)

            But you can’t generalize conservatives like DaveH generalizes liberals/progressives… Nope… can’t do that.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            You make no sense, Dave.
            But then, we should excuse you in your futile desperation to win a point.

    • SunEast 孫東

      Dave… I don’t know how old you are but you sound very young and ignorance, pardon my saying so. You need to jump out of “jack in the box” and face the real world my boy. Spend a little money and buy Edward Griffin’s Creature from Jekyll Island 5th edition hard/soft cover or CD. Read it front to back or listen to his CDs and get the truth.

      • TheOriginalDaveH

        Dave doesn’t want to learn the truth. Knowing how long he has been trying foolishly to dissuade people from learning concepts of Freedom would be too much for his fragile brain.

        • Dave

          the opposite of truth is known as DaveH

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Fell free to prove that at anytime. But you won’t because ad hominem attacks are the only weapon Liberal Progressives have in their arsenal — being bereft of logic and facts.

          • Dave

            You call me a Socialist (lie), a communist (lie), a marxist (lie) you say the same thing about Obama (lies) and you take about your theory as if it is fact.
            You are exposed as Bob’s Mises lacky….

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Where have I called you communist or marxist, Dave?
            But you are a Socialist, as evidenced by your regular support for Big Government on this board.
            You have been exposed as a Lying Liberal Progressive.

          • Dave

            Again, more lies from DaveH. I have never been a proponent of big Gov or of the Socialist idea of the Gov owniong the means of production for the entire economy. Once again DaveH is a bald face liar.
            I have always called for Gov to be responsive to the people, not big money or corporations. But its not the lying narrative you wish to put forth. You have a clear agenda to lie your way to credibility with the conservatives who are dumb enough to buy your BS.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            All the readers need do, Dave, is read your comments. I don’t know who you think you are fooling.

          • Dave

            Yes, read my comments…. and comprehend them…. Somthing you obviously have a problem with doing because you have an agenda.
            I challenge you to put forth anything I have said that calls for bigger Gov or socialism. You are a liar and a fraud

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            “comprehending” your inane comments is a tall order, Dave, for even the most proficient English readers.

          • Dave

            I see you have nothing as usual DaveH… I challenged you to find something I have said that justifies your lies about me and you have nothing… as usual… You are truly Bob L’s Court Jester…. Dance little boy dance.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            What a dunce. How can I find something that justifies my lies when I haven’t told any?
            Your ears are bookends to a vacuum, Dave.

          • Dave

            LOL… I told you that you had nothing and all you can do is call me names and try to avoid the issue.

            What a pathetic excuse for a conservative you are.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Do you even re-read your comments to see how childish they are, Dave?

          • Nadzieja Batki

            But you are and so is O. Snarling at the posters won’t change the reality.

        • SunEast 孫東

          Well, tyranny got people like young Dave by the balls and slowly creeping up their derriere. This hemorrhoid is going to stay and grow out of proportion. Best of luck!

      • Dave

        SunEast, this isn’t my first rodeo…I have much more experience than you know. I will ignore your and DaveH’s infantile personal attacks. I know how the Gov works and what one has to do to get into Snowden’s shoes.

        I want the Patriot act eliminated. That does not absolve Snowden from violating a contract that he signed. Does it?

        If Snowden’s actions force an end to the Patriot Act, then Snowden’s actions, I will applaud. Since neither you or I know exactly what Snowden knows or doesn’t know and its affects on national security, I can’t say he is a traitor or not. He needs to be tried in a court of law to find that out.

        • SunEast 孫東

          you mean tried in a court of outlaw… how interesting.

          • Dave

            So you are an arachist? Ok… now I know.

          • SunEast 孫東

            It spells “Archaist”
            How well do you know your American history? Start reading from Alexander Hamilton and George… then go back further to learn the truth of the revolution.

          • TheOriginalDaveH
          • SunEast 孫東

            Indeed.

          • Dave

            I know American history pretty well thank you. I know why we sought our independence. we did not want to pay taxes to a country where people did not have repesentation. Washington DC is an example of that today. Those are the only people that can cite that today that live in the 50 states that can claim that tyranny.

            What do you know about American History? Has this country changed somewhat since we were a country of 3 Million and an argriculture based economy with no real presense on the world stage?

          • SunEast 孫東

            Again This is for you Dave:

            “There is no greater tyranny than that which
            is perpetrated under the shield of law and in the name of justice.”

            Did United States conquer the King of England? Did they burn
            London? The answer is, no; George Washington settled
            with London and the Crown by agreeing to pay a debt to the Crown with
            interest; incidentally, it was implemented by Alexander Hamilton (a Rothschild
            family member)

            Now you understand why the supremacy clause was included in the
            Constitution, and why the enumerated powers under Article I, Section 8 begin
            with “the Congress shall have the Power to lay and collect Taxes, Duties,
            Imposts and Excises, [and] to pay the Debts . . . of the United
            States. “ What debt? Was such a debt disclosed to “We the People”
            at the time of the adoption of the Constitution? Did the “people”
            actually voted on the Constitution, or only by the representatives of the
            states? Why doesn’t the Constitution begin with “We, the States”?

            The answer is very straightforward: The United States was formed
            under a unified confession of judgment to the Crown of England – it is at its
            core, a debt guarantee, with the “claws” necessary to enforce it against the
            participating states. These “claws” were used with great force against
            the disobedient Southern States in the War Between the States to punish those
            who sought to use the rule of law in contravention with the orchestrated debt
            repayment mechanism.

            Article VI of the Constitution (the last Article): “All debts contracted
            and Engagements entered into, before the Adoption of this Constitution, shall
            be as valid against the United States under this Constitution, as under the
            Confederation.”

            The founders who brought on this revolution, and who borrowed money from
            the King of England (who also loaned the money to King of France, who
            thereafter went bankrupt to his own demise) to engage in the revolution,
            managed to get the States to guarantee their debts for the revolution, and used
            this Article to make sure it held.

            President Lincoln saw fit to enforce this union and this debt
            guarantee, and so, the illusion of federalism was crushed with the blood
            of millions, bringing the nation under martial law via Lincoln’s General
            Rule 100 (the Lieber Code) which remains in effect today. The proof of
            this proposition lies in the abnormalities that are present in the current
            system.

            The mere placement of federal troops inside a the boundaries of a given
            state is martial law by definition, as understood under the Lieber
            Code; and the trappings of constitutionalism are merely the temporary protocols
            that can be used to execute control unless and until they become ineffective,
            in which case, courts-martial can be employed with dispatch to the surprise of
            the average Americans. The National
            Defense Authorization Act (the NDAA) is consistent with this understanding,
            where suddenly, habeas- corpus, rights to counsel, rights to know of your
            accusation, rights to refuse to self-incriminate, rights to be free of
            unreasonable search and seizure and rights to confront your accusers
            all disappear at the whim of the “President.”

            Article I, Section 8, clause 5 provides that the Congress shall have
            the power “to coin Money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign Coin,
            and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures.” Article I, Section 9,
            clause 7 provides that “no Money shall be drawn from the Treasury,
            but in Consequence of Appropriations made by Law.” Article I, Section 10,
            clause 1 provides that “no State shall . . . make anything but gold and silver
            Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts.”

            The debt obligation expressed in the Constitution has long since
            been replaced with emergency orders (beginning under Lincoln), orders in
            bankruptcy (under FDR), and money that has been re-expressed in
            Federal Reserve Notes, off-the-books interest rates, and debt instruments
            disguised as currency, which are not created by the Treasury, but by a private
            group to manage the enslavement of the American people, and to manage the
            non-stop stream of wealth transfer that constitutes day-to-day life in America.

            To be succinct: Americans do not live under the “Constitution.”
            Americans are not “free.” Americans have no “rights.” And this
            condition existed long before GWB or Obama – their “Presidencies” simply
            represent the fist of tyranny being deployed against Americans in order to move
            “the people” from semi-affluent slave, to third-world slave. The words “democracy” and “communism” are
            only brainwashing idioms. “Republican”
            is a word used to differentiate from a one party governance to a “two step
            dance”… Get it?

            And you may ask who does the Crown answers to?

            Here’s a quote by Baron Nathan Mayer de Rothschild:

            “I care not what puppet is placed on the throne of England to rule the
            British Empire on which the sun never sets.
            The man that controls Britain’s money supply controls the British
            Empire, and I control the British money supply.”

            This is the art of not owning it but have total control of it.

            The movie “Enemy of States” is now an ongoing documentary proven by Ed
            Snowden.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Dave says — “we did not want to pay taxes to a country where people did not have repesentation”.
            It went far beyond taxation without representation, Dave. The major issue was protection by the British for their Crony Capitalists against American Colonial competition . You would know that if you really knew anything about American History, Dave.
            You could learn, though, if you really wanted, by reading the books I listed below, but I suspect that instead you will launch ad hominem attacks on Mises, or some other such ignorant nonsense.

          • Dave

            Anarchist… sorry… Engaging in capitalist endevors as I type.

          • SunEast 孫東

            Not I but The government is. They rebel against the US constitution. You’ve been asleep or someone from above has gotten you zapped. Your country has been hijacked and O is following orders from R and you are about to be depopulated my boy…

          • Dave

            Yes, the country has been hijacked by corp interests… You are correct that it has been hijacked.

          • SunEast 孫東

            This is for you Dave:

            “There is no greater tyranny than that which
            is perpetrated under the shield of law and in the name of justice.”

            Did United States conquer the King of England? Did they burn
            London? The answer is, no; George Washington settled
            with London and the Crown by agreeing to pay a debt to the Crown with
            interest; incidentally, it was implemented by Alexander Hamilton (a Rothschild
            family member)

            Now you understand why the supremacy clause was included in the
            Constitution, and why the enumerated powers under Article I, Section 8 begin
            with “the Congress shall have the Power to lay and collect Taxes, Duties,
            Imposts and Excises, [and] to pay the Debts . . . of the United
            States. “ What debt? Was such a debt disclosed to “We the People”
            at the time of the adoption of the Constitution? Did the “people”
            actually voted on the Constitution, or only by the representatives of the
            states? Why doesn’t the Constitution begin with “We, the States”?

            The answer is very straightforward: The United States was formed
            under a unified confession of judgment to the Crown of England – it is at its
            core, a debt guarantee, with the “claws” necessary to enforce it against the
            participating states. These “claws” were used with great force against
            the disobedient Southern States in the War Between the States to punish those
            who sought to use the rule of law in contravention with the orchestrated debt
            repayment mechanism.

            Article VI of the Constitution (the last Article): “All debts contracted
            and Engagements entered into, before the Adoption of this Constitution, shall
            be as valid against the United States under this Constitution, as under the
            Confederation.”

            The founders who brought on this revolution, and who borrowed money from
            the King of England (who also loaned the money to King of France, who
            thereafter went bankrupt to his own demise) to engage in the revolution,
            managed to get the States to guarantee their debts for the revolution, and used
            this Article to make sure it held.

            President Lincoln saw fit to enforce this union and this debt
            guarantee, and so, the illusion of federalism was crushed with the blood
            of millions, bringing the nation under martial law via Lincoln’s General
            Rule 100 (the Lieber Code) which remains in effect today. The proof of
            this proposition lies in the abnormalities that are present in the current
            system.

            The mere placement of federal troops inside a the boundaries of a given
            state is martial law by definition, as understood under the Lieber
            Code; and the trappings of constitutionalism are merely the temporary protocols
            that can be used to execute control unless and until they become ineffective,
            in which case, courts-martial can be employed with dispatch to the surprise of
            the average Americans. The National
            Defense Authorization Act (the NDAA) is consistent with this understanding,
            where suddenly, habeas- corpus, rights to counsel, rights to know of your
            accusation, rights to refuse to self-incriminate, rights to be free of
            unreasonable search and seizure and rights to confront your accusers
            all disappear at the whim of the “President.”

            Article I, Section 8, clause 5 provides that the Congress shall have
            the power “to coin Money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign Coin,
            and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures.” Article I, Section 9,
            clause 7 provides that “no Money shall be drawn from the Treasury,
            but in Consequence of Appropriations made by Law.” Article I, Section 10,
            clause 1 provides that “no State shall . . . make anything but gold and silver
            Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts.”

            The debt obligation expressed in the Constitution has long since
            been replaced with emergency orders (beginning under Lincoln), orders in
            bankruptcy (under FDR), and money that has been re-expressed in
            Federal Reserve Notes, off-the-books interest rates, and debt instruments
            disguised as currency, which are not created by the Treasury, but by a private
            group to manage the enslavement of the American people, and to manage the
            non-stop stream of wealth transfer that constitutes day-to-day life in America.

            To be succinct: Americans do not live under the “Constitution.”
            Americans are not “free.” Americans have no “rights.” And this
            condition existed long before GWB or Obama – their “Presidencies” simply
            represent the fist of tyranny being deployed against Americans in order to move
            “the people” from semi-affluent slave, to third-world slave. The words “democracy” and “communism” are
            only brainwashing idioms. “Republican”
            is a word used to differentiate from a one party governance to a “two step
            dance”… Get it?

            And you may ask who does the Crown answers to?

            Here’s a quote by Baron Nathan Mayer de Rothschild:

            “I care not what puppet is placed on the throne of England to rule the
            British Empire on which the sun never sets.
            The man that controls Britain’s money supply controls the British
            Empire, and I control the British money supply.”

            This is the art of not owning it but have total control of it.

            The movie “Enemy of States” is now an ongoing documentary proven by Ed
            Snowden.

          • Dave

            So, Obama isn’t the problem or liberals or progressives… Its the Rothchilds. When do you put together your team to elliminate them?
            You know they are the head of all evil in the world… Take them out. I am sure Bob Livingston, John Myers, W.A.R. has the money to finance your team to rid the world of the Rothchilds. Then we can all be free and happy.
            Its just so simple now.

          • SunEast 孫東

            Every published blog comes a few disrupters assigned to disturb and confuse. hmmm.

          • SunEast 孫東

            Yes, Triads & etc. against Skull & Bones. It’s been going on for decades.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            And ignoramuses like you, Dave, have allowed the framework to be built that played right into their hands. Without the aid of Big Government, the Corporatists would be helpless.
            Those readers, who would like to be smarter than Dave, should read this book to start your wake-up sequence:
            http://www.amazon.com/The-Big-Ripoff-Business-Government/dp/0471789070/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1374880312&sr=8-1&keywords=big+ripoff

            Yeah, I know, you don’t need to read the book to be smarter than Dave, but read it anyway.

          • WTS/JAY

            Good point, and very astute of you, SunEast! It is the government that is presently engaging in “anarchy”!

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Dave throws the word “anarchist” around like it is some kind of evil when in fact it just denotes an absence of Government, which has rarely been the case in history because “Almost all governments were formed by ruthless men exerting their will over others through the use of force”. — Clifford Thies.
            http://mises.org/daily/3427
            And there are almost always psychopathic bullies who feel the need to Force their way on others through Leadership:
            http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/05/beware-the-psychopath-my-son/

            Those people whose minds haven’t been Propagandized into numbness, like Dave’s, should read this:
            http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/rothbard81.html
            and this:
            http://mises.org/daily/3861

        • TheOriginalDaveH

          Dave says — “I will ignore your and DaveH’s infantile personal attacks”.
          It’s “infantile” now to shine a light on a Liberal Progressive’s ignorance?
          Dave says — “I want the Patriot act eliminated. That does not absolve Snowden from violating a contract that he signed. Does it?”.
          No, but the Constitution does. And even if it didn’t, the Natural Rights of human beings — to be free from coercion and intrusions into our personal lives — do absolve Snowden.

      • WTS/JAY

        For you, SunEast…

    • Nadzieja Batki

      What if NSA chiefs had a heart to heart with O and he gave them the go ahead to let Snowden loose with his mouth. Unless NSA own security is really lax, it was known that Snowden was behaving like a caged animal. Have you all forgotten office grapevines and gossip fests even if they are done on the hush and whispers.

      • Dave

        What if the NSA negotiated with Obama to let Snowden loose in exchange for a Lady GAGA concert at the next Christmas party?
        That could happen too…
        What you are saying is your own bisases speacking… pure conjecture unsupported by anything close to factual info.

        • Nadzieja Batki

          How close are you to O and his behind?
          By your response you just admitted that what I said is a great possibility.

          • Dave

            How far are you up Bob’s and the rest of the conservative media’s?
            No, I completely disagree… It is highly UNlikely. Unlike you, I have spent time in those circles…

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            There’s “conservative media”?
            That’s news to me.
            All I’ve seen is Neoconservative Progressive media and Liberal Progressive media, with the rare exception of people like Judge Napolitano and John Stossel (who is much more timid about Freedom than the Judge).

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m24aiqsM4fE

          • Dave

            Fox

            NY Post

            AM talk Radio

            Clear channel

            Washinton Times

            Washington Examiner

            Corporatist/Conservative front groups like Heritage, CATO, Freedomworks etc… PLD…

            I can go on.
            But mostly what we have is corp media… 90% of what you see, hear and read is owned by 5 multinational conglomerates.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            The usual ad hominem attacks in lieu of facts, Dave.
            Who do you believe?
            And why should anybody believe you, when you’ve been proven repeatedly to have no credibility?

          • Dave

            I don’t believe any one source… I look at all the sources and draw conclusions from what they say and don’t say. I have no credibility as a liberal/progressive in a conservative site… what a revalation you uncovered! Wow….

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            No, you have no credibility because you make dishonest statements, Dave, like accusing me of calling you Communist and Marxist, which is a lie.
            If I say you have no credibility, it ISN’T because you are a Liberal Progressive. It IS because you have personally demonstrated that you don’t have credibility.

          • Dave

            You are dishonest everytime you post a link to your employer’s page, trying to pass it off as fact.
            I enjoy exposing complete frauds like you. Of course yopur “fans” will buy anything you sell. Independent minds like mine know you are a carney huckster.
            I hope you carry your organ-grinder playing in the background as you try and convince us that your theories are anywhere near reality based.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Dave says — “You are dishonest everytime you post a link to your employer’s page, trying to pass it off as fact”.
            A typical lie by Dave. I am not employed by Mises, and as usual, Dave judges the contents of the articles with a generalized ad hominem attack instead of addressing the individual claims.

            Dave says — “I enjoy exposing complete frauds like you”.
            Then you aren’t getting much enjoyment, Dave, because you haven’t “exposed” anything but your own ignorance.

            Dave says — “Independent minds like mine know you are a carney huckster”.
            Independent? You misspelled that word, Dave. It is spelled I-G-N-O-R-A-N-T.

          • JeffH

            ROFLMAO and PMP!

          • WTS/JAY

            No DaveH, you’re wrong! Its spelled T-R-O-L-L.

          • JeffH

            I think you’re both right… I-G-N-O-R-A-N-T T-R-O-L-L.

          • WTS/JAY

            Lol! Good one, JeffH!!!

          • WTS/JAY

            Btw, DaveH, that was brilliant!

          • JeffH

            ‘They’re coming to take you(Dave47D) away, ho-ho, he-he, ha-ha’. To the funny farm where life is beautiful all the time…to the happy home…to the SPCA ya mutt..he he, ho ho to the funny farm

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            We should be so lucky.

          • MexicansaysLibtardsRpukes

            Yep! Dave, Alex, Jeff, KGB and other Brain dead Libtards,need to be in a padded cell.

            http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lso72ylYQd1r23u4qo1_400.jpg

          • SunEast 孫東

            What circle? The Colon Bend to the Rectal off ramp?
            All there is in the west is Controlled media!
            Synthetic terrorism as well as synthetic friendly fire.

          • WTS/JAY

            SunEast: What circle? The Colon Bend to the Rectal off ramp?

            Lol!!! Good one, SunEast! Do you mind if i borrow that if ever i decide to?

          • SunEast 孫東

            Not at all WTS/JAY…

          • SunEast 孫東

            Not at all Jay…

          • Dave

            FBI, DLA from personal experience… CIA, NSA from family and friends.

            90% of what we see and hear in the United States is owned by 5 multinational conglomerates….I know you are not going to claim China has a free media.

          • SunEast 孫東

            Yes, it is controlled media in China but their mission is quite different. They actually deter real terrorism and not on their own citizens. Nevertheless, majority of the public in China speaks out loudly via WeChat and Sino today and guess what? The government actually answers them and work things out. However, if real terrorism does occurs the government will stop it on a dime.

    • wandamurline

      He violated his contract? How about the contract that the government takes to uphold the Constitution. The FISA court is unconstitutional, NSA’s spying on us is unconstitutional, TSA gropings at the airports is unconstitutional, the IRS targeting conservatives is not only unconstitutional, it is criminal, Fast and Furious was unconstitutional, Obamacare is unconstitutional regardless of what Roberts did to rewrite it so he could call it so, and the Patriot Act which is the law under which these things have happened is unconstitutional. Oh, don’t forget that bombing Libya without congressional approval was also unconstitutional and a crime that should have called for impeachment. The Patriot Act comes up again for renewal in 2015….you had better get on board to repeal it before it becomes permanent. It doesn’t matter who was responsible for the implementation of these things, Bush and Obama were the same….only Obama has been on steroids for implementing the collapse of the US of A. The thing that matters is We The People putting a stop to these practices. And yes, Thank you Mr. Snowden for showing us what a Gestapo of a government we now have.

      • Dave

        Yes, he signed a document that spells out what he can and cannot do. Its called the rule of law…. I don’t approve of FISA courts, unecessary spying and if spying does occur, there are multiple layers and accountability in the process so we do not have another J Edgar Hoover on our hands.
        Obama has done little to “destroy”… He can’t do much good or bad due to the GOP in congress stopping most of what Obama would like to do. There is an exception though… A bill to defund the NSA program was defeated in the House put forth by John Conyers (D) and and Republican. Obama and the GOP “leadership” did work together to get the GOP to defeat that bill in the House.

        • TheOriginalDaveH

          Dave says — “Yes, he signed a document that spells out what he can and cannot do. Its called the rule of law”.
          You’re joking right, Dave?
          Since when do you stick up for the Rule of Law unless it benefits you?
          If the contract is UnConstitutional, it is null and void by the “Rule of Law”.

          • Dave

            DaveH, your ignorance about me is only matched by the level of personal attacks against anyone that disagrees with you.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            All anybody needs to do is read your comments regularly, Dave.

          • Dave

            As yours DaveH… anyone disagrees with your Theory… they are automatically a socialist, communist or Marxist. But thats what shameless propagandists do.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Dave, why should anybody believe a word you say?
            You accused me of calling you a Communist and a Marxist. Yet, you have offered no evidence of such.
            I haven’t called you a Communist or a Marxist, unless maybe you are assuming multiple personalities on this board.

          • Dave

            You are a liar DaveH. In your myopic little world, you are either a freemarket capitalist or you are a socialist, communist or Marxist.
            You make lying assuptions that I support a complete socialist economic model at almost every turn. You are a serial liar DaveH and a propagandist.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            You still haven’t demonstrated that I said any such thing, Dave. That makes YOU the liar. Even a normal Liberal Progressive can figure that out.

          • Dave

            http://personalliberty.com/2013/07/24/sum-ting-wong/

            There is just the latest variation of your BS. There are some many more. You go off topic and say that I support Socialism but you nonsensical rantings about socialism’s failures…. There are so many more of you directly calling me a socialist…

            You are a fraud and a liar… if you want further examples, go askl Bob who is probably sitting next to you to review your comments. You are exposed. (Again)

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            You take the reader to a general web page? And that is proof?
            Here is proof that you are a liar, Dave (using your own ridiculous standards):
            http://personalliberty.com/
            Thanks for demonstrating to the readers just how ignorant you are, Dave.
            And I don’t doubt that I have called you a Socialist, Dave, because you are one. The issue is whether or not I called you a Communist or a Marxist. Try to stay on topic, Dave.

          • Dave

            Keep on lying DaveH… Its what you do….
            Have your co-worker Bob Livingston pull the thread history.

          • JeffH

            Give it up self proclaimed progressive Dave47D…you have no credibility here…with very few exceptions, no one believes you and those that do shill for and support the same progressive global ideals that you do.

            The NSA spy program and the Patriot Act are clearly in violation of the Constitution, the Supreme Law, which trumps federal law every time.
            http://www.dailypaul.com/165693/judge-napolitano-why-the-patriot-act-is-unconstitutional

            Stossel vs. Napolitano on NSA Spying
            http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/2514592655001/stossel-vs-napolitano-on-nsa-spying/

          • Dave

            Dwedle-dumb enters the fray right on que

          • JeffH

            Sorry Dave47D, I don’t understand your sheep talk…bahhhhh, bahhhhh, bahhhh?

          • Dave

            When you and DaveH dance… who leads?

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            As usual, the Liberal Progressives turn the thread into Grammar School playtime.

          • Dave

            Unlike your personal attacks when someone calls you on your BS right DaveH?

          • WTS/JAY

            What BS? Please specify!

          • WTS/JAY

            What BS? Please specify!

          • WTS/JAY

            Hmm, yet another homosexual-insinuation from Dave. What up, Dave; the “alternative-lifestyle” ain’t cutting it?

          • JeffH

            Dave47D, you did know that I had to confer with my fellow conspirators, Bob and DaveH, first?

    • Flobill

      When you sign a contract, it is assumed that both sides will play fairly and legal. When one of the partners goes beyond the scope of the agreement, it cancels the obligation to remain committed. In a marriage relationship, and one partner commits adultry, God frees the innocent partner to be released from the commitment. This man is brave to turn in those going beyond their jurisdiction, THANK YOU!! If more German citizens had done this, perhaps WWII would not have killed so many, and many countries not consumed by greed and control.

      This is why no treaty ever written has been kept. Someone always wants to take control.

      • Arkham

        When Daniel Ellsberg released the Pentagon papers he had the courage to stand up and face the consequences like a real hero. Snowden, although raising the valuable question about internal spying, ironically ran off like a woos to one of the most oppressive and spying prone countries, Russia. Maybe he will seek asylum in friendly, open minded, freedom loving North Korea and change his name to Hu Flung Dung.

        Ultimately there are gents on the ground, putting themselves at risk, that are likely the pay the consequences.

    • JLouisK

      He may have broken a contract, but it is null and void since it is an illegal one. His duty as an American was to do exactly what he did. The only real damage done has been to expose those who have been violating our constitutional rights. The Patriot Act is subversive and illegal in the first place, as is any law that infringes upon the Contitution itself, regardless of who proposed and passed it.

    • JeffH

      What did Snowden do that has those in power screaming for his scalp and those — generally — who fear the loss of liberty, including millions of young people, grateful for his courage?

      When Snowden began his work for the government contractor Booz Allen, he took two oaths. The first oath was to keep secret the classified materials to which he would be exposed in his work as a spy; the second oath was to uphold the Constitution.

      Shortly after Snowden began his work with the NSA, he came to the realization that he could not comply with both oaths. He realized that by keeping secret what he learned, he was keeping the American public in the dark about what its government is doing outside the Constitution in order to control the public.

      One of those oaths — to retain secrets — is grounded in a federal statute that requires secrecy and punishes the exposure of secrets.

      The other oath is grounded in the Constitution, which is the supreme law of the land and protects the natural right to be left alone and does not punish the governmental violation of that right.

      When confronted with conflicting oaths, Edward Snowden opted for the higher good: fidelity to the supreme law of the land.

      Those in power want to stay there and will misuse the Constitution to do so for as long as they can get away with it, no matter to which political party they belong. Any government that secretly spies on nearly all the population is aiming to control the population.
      – Judge Andrew Napolitano

      http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/06/20/fidelity-to-constitution-when-need-it/#ixzz2aAfnvf1m

      • TheOriginalDaveH

        Good job, JeffH.

        • Dave

          Pucker up Jeffrey, DaveH just gave you a sloppy kiss… That will send you to the range with that afterglow smile on your face.

          • JeffH

            Nothing could be more terrible than to see Dave47D’s ignorance in action.

          • Dave

            You, a blind folllower of Bob L’s edicts calling me “ignorant”. I take that as a supreme compliment.
            Stay in pucker mode my good little soldier….

          • JeffH

            POLLY WANT A CRACKER?

          • WTS/JAY

            I think Polly is, crackers!

          • Dave

            Parroting???
            BobL uses the term unhinged… then his boy JeffH picks up on it. I am sure that gets you brownie points with your lord and master.

          • WTS/JAY

            Actually Dave, it was JeffH who coin-phrased the term, “unhinged”, not Mr. Livingston! And having read many of your posts, you, yourself, have a bag full of interesting terms…don’t you, Dave?

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Dave is as interesting as a 4th grade bully.

          • JeffH

            Desperate Dave47D says “BobL uses the term unhinged…then his boy JeffH picks up on it”.
            Swing and a miss!

            Ask your fellow ignorant buddy unhinged Jeff about it.

            Not only is Dave47D ignorant, he’s not very percepetive either.

          • WTS/JAY

            Dave, why do you allow JeffH to manipulate you? I’m embarrassed for you! Don’t you have any self-respect?

          • http://cowboybyte.com/ Alondra

            No, he does NOT. He does not know what it is and how it smells

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Calling you ignorant may be a complement to you, Dave, but it is an insult to ignorant people.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Another “compassionate” remark from a Liberal Progressive.
            Thanks for showing the average readers what you guys are really made of, Dave, and it ain’t pretty.

          • WTS/JAY

            Neither are wrecking-balls very pretty, but they get the job done!

          • WTS/JAY

            Hmm, a homosexual-insinuation …are you trying to tell us something about yourself, Dave?

      • Dave

        Jeff,

        All countries hate it when their tactics get exposed. I am all for transparency as long as it doesn’t compromise national securuity or put our agents in harms way. If the exposure embarrasses a policy put forth by a Dem or Rep administration or Congressional laws as in this case because its a blatant power grab, then by all means hail Snowden as a hero.

        As I said, people are now talking and thinking about this issue (a good thing)…. The question becomes… Where were all these people in 2002-2003 when Bush and the GOP led Congress put forth and passed the original Patriot Act? Most were hiding underneath their computer desks because Fox news had the threat level for the day at “mauve”.

        • JeffH

          Dave47D says “Where were all these people in 2002-2003 when Bush and the GOP led Congress put forth and passed the original Patriot Act? Most were hiding underneath their computer desks because Fox news had the threat level for the day at “mauve”.”

          Because that’s your opinion and because you say so does not make it fact. You know this how?

          Much has changed since then. FOX was a “peon” in the cable news arena back then so I highly doubt anyone was hiding underneath their computer desks because of FOX.

          People have great distrust for their government and that distrust has grown exponentially since the greatest liar of all presidents, Obama and is band of merry Marxist radicals, moved into the White House.

          • Dave

            Yes Jeffrey,

            It was conservatives in the street protesting the Patriot Act in 2002-2003 and the pending Iraq war.

            Sure thing… Tell yourself that….

            It was the liberals doing that…. or as your friend Sean Hannidy called them “Un-American Traitors”

            People should question the Gov, especially in this age of technology and big money in the process. The greatest liar? I think Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush when I think of the greatest liars.

            Obama is a Marxist? Prove your lying assertion with anything Obama has proposed.

          • WTS/JAY

            Dave: It was conservatives in the street protesting the Patriot Act in 2002-2003 and the pending Iraq war. Sure thing… Tell yourself that….

            It was the liberals doing that…. or as your friend Sean Hannidy called them “Un-American Traitors”

            So, where are these “Un-American Traitors” now, Dave? (-:

          • Dave

            The wars are coming to an end… so they are doing the same thing most others are doing… living life and trying to make it, taking care of their families. I am sure many are still fighting for liberal causes like pro-choice rights, marriage equality, an end to the absurd drug war and also fighting against the Patriot Act and Obama’s continuation of it. Many are fighting against the big banks takeover of our Gov. Still others are fighting against conservatives and their anti-freedom policies in NC, TX, ND etc.
            But I haven’t taken a poll so forgive me if I do not know what they are all doing today. I know when that criminal Bush Jr was finally out of office, we all jumped for joy. We just wished be could be tried for war crimes for Iraq, Cheney’s firm Haliburton just got caught destroying evidence from the oil rig disaster in the gulf… Of course nobody is going to jail for such a crime.

          • WTS/JAY

            Dave: The wars are coming to an end…

            Really? So we should ignore the fact that since 2005, the US and its allies, including America’s NATO partners and Israel, have been involved in the extensive deployment and stockpiling of advanced weapons systems, and the fact that the air defense systems of the US, NATO member countries and Israel are now fully integrated?

            Are you aware, Dave, that Obama has recently agreed and approved the sale of 20 Jet-fighters to Egypt and that a partial-delivery of those Jets have already reached their destination? Why? Why would Obama do this; and why would he assist in arming Egypt? Because, Egypt controls the transit of war ships and oil tankers through the Suez Canal. Saudi Arabia and the Gulf States occupy the South Western coastlines of the Persian Gulf, the Straits of Hormuz and the Gulf of Oman. Early in June of 2010, Egypt reportedly allowed one Israeli and eleven U.S. ships to pass through the Suez Canal in ….an apparent signal to Iran. … On June 12, regional press outlets reported that the Saudis had granted Israel the right to fly over its airspace…” (Muriel Mirak Weissbach, Israel’s Insane War on Iran Must Be Prevented., Global Research, July 31, 2010).

            According to Professor Michel Chossudovsky:

            “In post 9/11 military doctrine, this massive deployment of military hardware has been defined as part of the so-called “Global War on Terrorism”, targeting “non-State” terrorist organizations including al Qaeda and so-called “State sponsors of terrorism”,. including Iran, Syria, Lebanon, Sudan.

            The setting up of new US military bases, the stockpiling of advanced weapons systems including tactical nuclear weapons, etc. were implemented as part of the pre-emptive defensive military doctrine under the umbrella of the “Global War on Terrorism”.

            He continues;

            “The broader implications of a US-NATO Israel attack on Iran are far-reaching. The war and the economic crisis are intimately related. The war economy is financed by Wall Street, which stands as the creditor of the US administration. The US weapons producers are the recipients of the US Department of Defense multibillion dollar procurement contracts for advanced weapons systems. In turn, “the battle for oil” in the Middle East and Central Asia directly serves the interests of the Anglo-American oil giants.

            The US and its allies are “beating the drums of war” at the height of a Worldwide economic depression, not to mention the most serious environmental catastrophe in World history. In a bitter twist, one of the major players (BP) on the Middle East Central Asia geopolitical chessboard, formerly known as the Anglo-Persian Oil Company, is the instigator of the ecological disaster in the Gulf of Mexico.

            Public opinion, swayed by media hype is tacitly supportive, indifferent or ignorant as to the likely impacts of what is upheld as an ad hoc “punitive” operation directed against Iran’s nuclear facilities rather than an all out war. War preparations include the deployment of US and Israeli produced nuclear weapons. In this context, the devastating consequences of a nuclear war are either trivialised or simply not mentioned.

            The “real crisis” threatening humanity, according to the media and the governments, is not war but global warming. The media will fabricate a crisis where there is no crisis: ”a global scare” — the H1N1 global pandemic– but nobody seems to fear a US sponsored nuclear war.

            The war on Iran is presented to public opinion as an issue among others. It is not viewed as a threat to “Mother Earth” as in the case of global warming. It is not front-page news. The fact that an attack on Iran could lead to escalation and potentially unleash a “global war” is not a matter of concern”.

            Hmm, that doesn’t sound like war(s) is/are coming to an end. That sounds more like a preparation for the imminent mother of them all, Dave! Wouldn’t you agree?

            Dave: so they are doing the same thing most others are doing… living life and trying to make it, taking care of their families. I am sure many are still fighting for liberal causes like pro-choice rights, marriage equality, an end to the absurd drug war and also fighting against the Patriot Act and Obama’s continuation of it. Many are fighting against the big banks takeover of our Gov. Still others are fighting against conservatives and their anti-freedom policies in NC, TX, ND etc.

            But I haven’t taken a poll so forgive me if I do not know what they are all doing today.

            That’s all well and good, Dave. But i think that you so-called freedom-fighters have lowered your standards somewhat, and have your priorities mixed-up, in terms of what is most pressing and what should be considered as the biggest threat to humanity; pro-choice rights?, Marriage equality? Are you kidding me? What good, is fighting/having those rights, when our planet is devastated by a nuclear-conflagration?

            Dave: I know when that criminal Bush Jr was finally out of office, we all jumped for joy. We just wished be could be tried for war crimes for Iraq, Cheney’s firm Haliburton just got caught destroying evidence from the oil rig disaster in the gulf… Of course nobody is going to jail for such a crime.

            No argument here, pal! But don’t think for a minute that the current potus has any plans to end the status-quo, any time soon. That fact that he still lives and breathes means he is entertaining no such thought(s)!

          • Nadzieja Batki

            Yes, the wars are coming to an end especially if they are called something else.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Dave says — “I am sure many are still fighting for liberal causes like pro-choice rights”.
            Pro-choice? About what? Certainly not Healthcare. Certainly not energy choice. Certainly not the choice of whether to keep your own hard-earned money or not. The only Choice I can think of that the Liberal Progressives want to allow you is the Choice to kill an unborn child.

          • TheOriginalDaveH
          • Dave

            So much BS in that pontificating piece of conservative tripe… but lets just look at one paragraph of DaveH’s “source”

            “In a Marxist worldview, government, or the State, is infinitely more important than people. Obama and the Democratic Socialist Party’s Marxist understanding will be made possible by the socialist promise of economic and societal utopia where there is an abundance of goods and services (“from each according to his abilities …”) that a developed socialist society will use to provide everyone’s needs (“… to each according to his needs”). The idea is that, with the full development of Western Marxism or scientific socialism and unrestrained productive forces, everyone’s needs will be satisfied in an egalitarian fashion
            Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2012/07/is-obama-a-marxist/#KIdwlAsavPLyCfxz.99

            There is so many lies in just this space…. Nowhere have Democrats said that Gov is the answer to all of people’s problems… they merely play a part. Slight difference but not in DaveH’s myopic little world.

            DaveH is once again proven himself to be a liar and a propagandist for Bob L and his employer.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Dave says — “Nowhere have Democrats said that Gov is the answer to all of people’s problems… they merely play a part”.
            A part? Government spends over 40% of our GDP. For you people making the average salary of $47,000, that means you are paying over $18,000 a year for Government (either directly through taxes, or indirectly through lost purchasing power).
            All those who would pay that voluntarily, raise your hand.
            All those who want to thank Dave and his ilk for saddling you with that heavy burden, give Dave a thumbs up.

    • Barack Embalmer

      snort snort yawn…………………..zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

  • Nadzieja Batki

    Anyone curious as to why we get sent down “rabbit holes” after the rabbits are long gone? After the government people screw up policies and not before.

    What is America to do after the Dems/Progs/Leftists in power make bad and dangerous decisions and then draw attention so they can be forgiven? There are no foreseen punishments.
    I am surprised the Dems/Progs/Leftists have not proposed a National Day of Handwringing.

  • Charles

    Chip, do you seriously believe that Snowden would have the chance to “face his accusers in an open and public trial?” The government would prefer to have him tried in secrecy and stashed in a hole for the rest of his life.

  • justus brother

    Chip, I am one hundred per cent behind Mr. Snowden. I believe the only reason he is alive today is because of route he took.

  • SunEast 孫東

    In order to
    capture Snowden and silence him, Obama’s minions used raw force in order to make the jet of the sitting President
    of Bolivia to land and then proceed to search the plane for Snowden. This was
    an unmitigated act of war and speaks to Obama’s desperation. I believe that it is likely that Michael
    Hastings had the same information and had to be eliminated. What information,
    that if made public, could change the world and topple Obama? In order to answer that question,
    it is important to look at what has been the obvious goal of the Obama administration who serves the
    Federal Reserve with undying allegiance.

    1. The Petrodollar ponzi scheme
    is under extreme pressure as Iran has sold its oil for gold to China,
    Russian and India. This move is threatening to spread to other Arab
    nations. Therefore, the Arab Spring was needed to enforce Petrodollar
    compliance.

    2. Obama was moving to attack
    Iran last fall, when the Chinese and Russians threatened to nuke theUnited
    States if we did so.

    3. Then the US
    followed a backdoor plan to weaken Iran by taking down its closest ally, Syria.
    Our al-Qaeda forces in Syria are proving less formidable than Obama had hoped.

    4. The US people
    are war weary and would not likely support another war. Only a clever and
    horrific false flag attack which could fool the sheep, would turn the tide of
    public opinion in favor of going to war.

    5. Snowden
    defects and eventually ends up in Russia. The importance of this event cannot
    be overstated.

    6. Obama stops
    beating the war drums as loud against Syria and Iran because Putin is obviously
    blackmailing Obama with the release of Snowden’s information. The war drums
    have grown eerily silent haven’t they?

    7. Michael
    Hastings is murdered. He obviously had some of Snowden’s evidence as he was in
    close contact with WikiLeaks as was Snowden. It becomes easy to believe that
    Hastings was going to be the conduit to release at least some of Snowden’s
    revelations. This was another desperate act by a desperate and determined President
    to stop Hastings from being as a big of a threat as Snowden. And if, as many
    have suggested, that Hastings was trying to get to the Israeli Consulate, Obama
    would have had two countries with blackmailing information to potentially use
    against him. Hastings should have known better.

    8. The only
    thing that would cause such desperation among the Obama people to attack the
    Bolivian President and murder Hastings would be to cover up the fact that a
    false flag attack was discovered by Snowden and Hastings and Obama is trying to
    cover his tracks through a strategy of “dead men tell no tales.”

    Putin has
    undoubtedly paralyzed this administration’s foreign policy because he controls
    the chessboard by controlling the release of Snowden’s information.

    Partial information from Dave Hodges

    • Sarah417

      WOW! I think you’ve got it. Have I got it? Everyone wants to be paid off in gold and America has none. It that it? The dollar is kaput?

      • SunEast 孫東

        Why do you think “they” manipulated gold price with paper gold then Central bank bought all the gold they can get their dirty hands on? Of course China, Russia, India and etc. also bought thousands of tons of gold too.

        • Sarah417

          My brain just won’t understand all this. So, you’re saying that America does have gold and if need be our paper dollars are backed by gold. Who is the Central Bank. The Fed Reserve? I’m so confused.

          • SunEast 孫東

            WOW… listen it’s 3:30 AM here in Singapore. I’ll try to explain tomorrow evening when I am on the bullet train to Beijing. Meanwhile, as I always suggest, buy Edward Griffin’s “Creature from Jekyll Island”. Ciao

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Or she could read this book and see how it all developed from the beginnings of our country:
            http://mises.org/Books/historyofmoney.pdf

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Your dollars are not backed by gold, Sarah. They are backed by Government Debt instruments.
            The Federal Reserve is our Central Bank.
            Read this to get a better understanding of money:
            http://mises.org/books/whathasgovernmentdone.pdf

          • SunEast 孫東

            Thanks DaveH…

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Sun,
            Thank you for your comments. I think it would be especially valuable if you could tell the readers how your country somehow functions fine with less than half the Government that the US has.

          • SunEast 孫東

            Well, US politicians has painted a grim and dangerous picture on China for as long as I can remember. Most are brain washing elements. China has way more freedom than the US for the past decade. Of course China still has much to improve but it has become more capitalism than “communism” which is a brain washing term along with “democracy” and I am certain you know what I mean.

            So here’s my sharing on the current China:

            Looking back through history, China is one of
            the countries that have never invaded anybody.

            In fact, China’s been a very defensive country. The Great Wall was built to
            keep the Mongol warriors and others out. The idea that after 5,000 years of
            history, China’s all of a sudden going to start grabbing land with guns — it’s
            just not part of the business model of the country’s management.”

            The model, instead, is commerce: Rather than invading around the world, China
            invests. In the process, it has been reaping the commercial rewards. Investing
            and building in developing markets around the globe is bringing new customers
            to the manufacturers and service providers of China.

            Everyone is so focused on building wealth, it’s infectious. As soon as you land
            and the airplane’s door opens, you get this incredible rush. And you can’t wait
            to get back once you leave. It’s as if there’s something in the air — an
            economic drug that makes you that much more driven!

            China lets people be as successful as they can and will not interfere, and
            in most cases will facilitate getting projects done that would never get done
            in the United States or Europe. And they’ll get it done in time spans that are
            unfathomable to most major construction companies or firms that specialize in
            project management.

            Case in point: a maker of sophisticated electronics that partners with Samsung.
            They did a project most people would say — if you could get the land, permits
            and everything else in the United States — would take five-10 years to get
            done. The Chinese got it done in under 12 months.”

            It’s become fashionable to declare that China’s boom is a bubble, destined for
            catastrophic and perhaps irreversible failure. Neil will have none of it.
            “There are plenty of companies that have severe issues, but you can make that
            same statement about any market anywhere on the planet.”

            For every tenet of the China-bashers’ playbook there’s a response:

            · Empty skyscrapers (and for that matter empty
            cities)? He’s seen them. “But I’ve also seen huge demand for educated
            workforces to fill those buildings. China is trying to develop nice places for
            people to live as they continue to move up.”

            · Skewed economic statistics? No more skewed
            than those in the US. And China’s are slowly becoming more reliable, judging by
            the discussions Neil has had with his students — some of whom work in China’s
            National Bureau of Statistics. “The quality of the numbers is improving as you
            get better-educated people in the agency.”

            . A slumping export trade? It’s no longer about
            what Westerners are buying from China. “Over the past year alone, exports to
            the United States and the EU aren’t impressive, but to the rest of Asia,
            exports are up more than 8.8%. Exports to Africa are up more than 9.3%. And
            exports to Latin America are surging by more than 12.1%.”

            China has broken the mold in its transition to a market economy. Business
            success in the former Soviet bloc countries depends entirely on who you know.
            In contrast, “The vast majority of successful Chinese don’t try to take
            advantage of the system. They simply try to conduct their business and commerce
            despite the system.”

          • Dave

            SunEast,

            China has learned much since Hong Kong was given back to China by the British. But problems remain.

            China does not engage in democracy so there so no answering to the people on environmental policy. The coastal cities of China are some of the dirtiest in the world. Conditions in Shanghai and Beijing are horrible.

            Freedom? Try and start a union to demand better wages and conditions and see what happens. The Chinese and Conservatives see very much eye to eye on their distain for unions.
            I believe China will have to change and encourage their growth of a vibrant middle class and they must buy more of the products they make. Right now, China is the beneficiary of bad US trade policy for our workers. US firms make the money on the backs of Chinese workers.
            China also has ZERO respect for other firms/countries patents. They steal as much as they can, make a cheaper copy and make a fortune. I am not saying America is perfect here either but the chickens will come home to roost once entrepreneurs start inventing things in China only to have them copied and made for less by somebody else.
            China has been in a great position for a while now. They took advantage of our dumb president George W Bush by financing our war in Iraq and then when the dust clears… China got the oil contracts. Very smart. You are correct. China does not have its eye on a military conquest of the world. They are looking to dominate the world though investment. Its a very sound and wise strategy.

          • SunEast 孫東

            Have you been to China?

          • Dave

            I have not but i am looking forward to visiting. My CEO speaks all over the world and has told me extensively about the experience. A good friend of mine is a VP Gartner, a firm that rates technology solutions and is married to a Taiwanese woman with family on the island and in mainland China. He goes every quarter to Beijing and Shanghai. We talk all the time because I am facinated by China’s history and rapid transformation. China is at a very interesting point in its long history.

          • SunEast 孫東

            Many people claim to know China, and that is including Chinese Americans. But then many, many Americans don’t know their own history either let alone who their government really works for.
            I can tell you that no western journalist have been able to find “true-grit” to their mission; therefore, most are mere anticlimax assumptions. I’ve had long discussions with Harvard professors on “Communism” and “Democracy” and they never really able to define them…not in a clear sense. Therefore, they are just words/tools governments used to achieve their objectives– brainwashing.

            I travel throughout China, Singapore, Hong Kong and the rest of Asia every month and I can assure you that China is prospering and the Chinese government has many plans on the table to enhance the well being of its citizens.
            China’s one child policy is still in place but force abortion is no longer practiced, they simply loose governmental benefits.
            Of course China does have their unsolved problems at hand but the Chinese government is solving them with every effort.

          • Dave

            I am curious about the Singapore economy as well. What can you share about their economy? My CEO says they are very creative when they look their economy when he met with many representatives from other countries at Oxford University.

            China was never communistic in the Marxist way. China has always put the group above the individual which seems to be part of the societal makeup of east Asian countries.

          • SunEast 孫東

            Singapore’s continuous growth is extraordinary indeed! Singapore is the premier financial destination in the world… as well as one of the wealthiest. Today there are more millionaires per capita in Singapore than anywhere else; one in six Singaporeans has a net worth in excess of one million. And for the average Joe, median household income ranks among the top worldwide.
            Not to mention, standard of living in Singapore is very high– schools, medical care, goods and services– all among the best on the planet. Even more incredibly, they built this without a single drop of oil reserves. Singapore isn’t Kuwait. It’s a small island with effectively no natural resources to speak of.
            While much of the developed world languishes under the massive burden of staggering debt and painful unemployment, Singapore has ZERO net debt. And the unemployment rate is below 2%.

            So how did this all happen? One key principle-economic freedom. In Singapore, business is treated incredibly well. Bureaucratic, regulatory nonsense is kept to a minimum. Corruption is nonexistent. It’s easy
            to set up a business and start competing. Plus taxes are ultra-low and highly competitive.
            Right now a small business that makes a $100,000 USD annual profit pays an effective tax rate of just 1.2%. A $1 million annual profit would have an effective tax rate of less than 12%.
            Bigger businesses can negotiate directly with the government for preferred tax rates, often 10% or less.
            Capital is also treated incredibly well. The banks are well capitalized, the currency has long been one of the best performing in the world, and Singapore has become a major crossroads of cross-border trade and investment opportunity.
            Last, Singapore treats productive, talented people incredibly well, including foreigners. It’s possible to obtain residency by starting a business here or getting hired. And, like corporate, personal tax rates are
            low.
            Income tax on a $250,000 (USD) salary has an effective rate of just 12.4%. And there are no capital gains or dividend taxes.
            Despite having such low tax rates, the government is awash with cash and runs a huge budget surplus. They’ve also managed to sock away a tremendous
            amount of money in sovereign wealth funds.
            The lesson is clear. Bankrupt western government are trying to increase control over their respective economies– regulating, inflating, and taxing their way to a bigger slice of a rapidly shrinking economic pie.
            Singapore, on the other hand, has focused on helping make the pie bigger. And it’s amazing how rapidly it can grow when governments step out of the way and allow people to keep what they earn.
            Singapore’s International education scale is # 2   US is #17

            As far as “China has always put the group above the individual” you must understand that there are 1.4 billion people in the country and poor education along with decayed traditions the government has no choice but to create guidelines in order to avoid chaos. You’ll see what I mean when you get chance to visit. Of course big cities like Beijing, Shanghai, Shenzhen, Guangzhou and etc. are more metropolitan in order to cater to the west. Big challenges currently are air and water pollution. Many US manufacturers in China are doing their share of polluting since regulations are not implemented correctly yet. Important thing is that the government has every intention to improve relentlessly.

            Hope this info helps you. SE

          • Dave

            Great stuff SunEast,

            Unfortunately, we cannot claim a lack of corruption here. That is a byproduct of strong individualism a rebellious nature of our culture. Everyone looks to game the system. Trouble is, the banks, the wealthy get away with it unfortunately. The US got mired in the cold war and our defense spending, international aid is out of control. We have our hands in too many pies.
            It is that culture of “I” before “we” that causes the need for regulation. The 2008 collapse was not caused by too much regulation, it was too little. maybe in Singapore the question gets asked “Should we do something just because we can?” and maybe that answer is “no” at times due to the culture. In America, the question rarely gets asked. Conservatives in America believe if you can make a dollar, who cares if it hurts the country. That has led to bad trade deals for the country.

            We have a lobby system that is ripe for corruption.

            Cap gains should be eliminated but too many here hide their earnings in the company. The tax system is put in place by US companies and it is complex un purpose to make them more money. It comes at the expense of people.

            DaveH, JeffH and many of the rest of the conservatives here fail to understand that we need smart gov, not large Gov. Responsive Gov, not bureaucracy and partisanship. But when you have two sides that don’t listen and compromise is a bad word, You get records in the lack of business being done in the House and record filibusters in the Senate. The Chinese can get things done because of the single party system and strong central Gov. If they keep their people, environment at the forefront of their policies, they could do more positive things. I fear the leadership in their desire to dominate economically, may at some point cut their own throats some point down the line because people in power have a strange way of abusing that power when there isn’t enough checks and balances and layers that prevent corruption.

          • SunEast 孫東

            Many people are still clueless on who their politicians work for. The carefully designed words: Democrat and Republican are used to differentiate from a really one-party governance to a “two step dance”
            Americans need to understand why the supremacy clause was included in the Constitution, and why the enumerated powers under Article I, Section 8 begin with “The Congress shall have the Power to lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises to pay the debts of the United States to the Crown of England with interest. 1913 was the final installment of their “Claws” and the systematic hijack began. Last but not least the general public should read FDR’s executive order 6102 the 1933 gold confiscation carefully and start safeguarding their retirement, savings and Gold.

          • SunEast 孫東

            All US presidents must follow orders; otherwise, “offer they can’t refuse” will be served. Current recipe is to bankrupt America and destroy the middle class. Why? Middle-class group demands the most and speak the loudest. The poor depends on uncle Sam therefore follows orders. The billionaire-group has resided elsewhere and has invested heavily in China. The millionaires are scrambling as we speak. I wonder why the Donald is still in the US.

      • Jeff

        But T-bills still seem to be where people park their money for safety. Of course that will change if the Repugs succeed in having us default. As long as they can blame it on Obama, it’s a risk they’re certainly willing to take.

        • TheOriginalDaveH

          Only people who don’t have a clue. With the current interest rate on T-bills being at .11 percent (less than 1%) and the current real inflation rate being at about 8% (using 1980-based methodology), you are losing over 7% a year on your money if you leave it in T-bills.
          http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/data-chart-center/interest-rates/Pages/TextView.aspx?data=billrates
          http://www.shadowstats.com/alternate_data/inflation-charts

          • Jeff

            And still people do it. It’s called a flight to safety.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Losing 7% a year is safety?
            What else can I expect from a Liberal Progressive?

        • SunEast 孫東

          That’s great Jeff that you like the T-bills…stay there by all means and while you’re at it invest in more paper gold.
          The T-bill is no different than the fiat greenback… it’s only based on what the banksters promise you. Have an inglorious day!

    • Dave

      Wait… isn’t it the Rothchild’s? Not Obama, or Bush or Republicans or Democrats that are behind all this?
      I thought we discussed this, you, with Bob L’s John Myer’s and W.A.R.’s money were going to put together a crack squad and take out that family. Take JeffH as your first recruit. He is a crack shot…. or is he a shot on crack… I can never get that straight.
      Once your mission is complete… Peace can return to the galaxy.
      Good luck and god speed you young Skywalker

      • John Myers

        Dear Dave,
        Not sure how I received a mention in your comment. Not sure what your comment even means.
        I will say that my old friend and mentor Chip wrote a great column above. As for including my name with great writers like Mr. Livingston, Mr. Root, Mr. Crystal and Mr. Wood; I can only offer one word — thanks!
        Sincerely,
        John Myers

        • Dave

          I guess negative exposure is better than no exposure…

          I am happy to put you in with the other right wing extremists. And if a mention means a good thing. Thank you for all the lying you do about liberals and progressives because as old white men become less and less of the population, the extreme right is less and less a force in this country and your writings help confirm the angry nutty thoughts you have.

          Thank you and keep up the good work. As liberals and progressives get stronger in national elections, we will have people like you to thank. So please don’t ever change your crazy cranky ways. We need people like you to strengthen liberalism and progressivism in this country. People like you help us nails in the Reaganomic coffin.

          • WTS/JAY

            According to the definition of progressive-liberalism; Progressive Liberalism stands for a combination of securing individual freedom and government intervention in the management of social institutions and law-making for the good of everyone, regardless of their social or economic position.

            Individual freedom and government intervention? Isn’t that in essence, an oxymoron, Dave?

          • Dave

            Let me help you out Jay.

            http://www.progressiveliving.org/progressivism.htm

            now the securing of individual freedom is dead on.

            In democracies, the people vote for people to represent them to be able to get things done for the society. That is called Government. The Government responsibility is outlays quite nicely in the Preamble or the US Constitution

            “We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”

            This is what our gov is designed to do.

            Establish justice- Liberals and Progressives are big on equality in society…. Conservatives? Not so much.

            provide for the common defense. We support that, 700B a year however is corp welfare and that number needs to get down to around 300B.

            Ensure domestic tranquility- progressives and liberals believe this is helped by everyone having and equal chance to make it. Having money or power does not get you a “free ride”. A vibrant middle class is the vessel in which all historical successful societies have thrived. Today, we have rampant crony capitalism and corporatism at the highest levels of Gov and it has manifested itself since Reagan with less economic power for the poor and middle class, more concentrated wealth because conservatives and corporatists have made it so big money in the political process is A-OK. Its not and it is tearing this country apart.

            Promote the general welfare- Progressives and liberals believe you have a right to a good education and to healthcare that doesn’t bankrupt you if you get sick. A blow to conservatives was made on Capitol Hill yesterday because small business owners came out and DEFENDED the ACA and they have seen their premiums go down, not up as the conservatives contend. We believe that the private sector is good in some areas of HC but providing good care to people when its the company, not the individual that is the end user of HC, the private sector stinks at it. We are 31st in the world in HC and we spend the most. I believe ACA did not go far enough.

            Promote the blessings of liberty…. see my first comment.
            You call it Gov “intervention” which expose your bias against the Gov. but in reality, its what Gov is designed to do. We just need to get our gov out of the hands of the corporations and the wealthy.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Dave says — “The Government responsibility is outlays quite nicely in the Preamble or the US Constitution”.
            I guess he means “laid out”. But regardless of Dave’s bad grammar, here is what the Father of our Constitution had to say about the General Welfare clause:
            http://www.constitution.org/fed/federa41.htm

            Dave says — “Liberals and Progressives are big on equality in society”.
            No, Liberal Progressives are big on Forcing their way on unwilling people, and giving certain classes of people special protections and special privileges. If I was a Liberal Progressive, I wouldn’t be bragging about that.

            Dave says — “Progressives and liberals believe you have a right to a good education and to healthcare that doesn’t bankrupt you if you get sick”.
            That’s the rosy facade. The truth is that Liberal Progressives believe that some people ought to pay for other peoples’ care, whether they like it or not. And Progressives believe that they ought to be able to Force you to buy insurance that you know is not beneficial to you.
            Here’s what Murray Rothbard had to say about Clinton’s proposed Healthcare plan. It’s eerily similar to the crap they’re Forcing on us now:
            http://mises.org/daily/6091/The-Devilish-Principles-of-Hillarycare
            No doubt that if Dave was a rapist, he could rationalize that also.

            Dave says — “We are 31st in the world in HC and we spend the most”.
            What Cato has to say about the WHO rankings:
            http://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/bp101.pdf
            The UN, the organization By Leaders For Leaders, wouldn’t lie to us, would they?

            Bottom line — In the upside/down world of Liberal Progressives Force is Liberty.

          • Dave

            Once again DaveH is a lying propagandist that has no clue how societies function.

            Why doesn’t CATO do a HC ranking? Because like DaveH, they are completely unqualified to make such a ranking. When DaveH has a source that can rank HC systems, I listen, otherwise I will ignore the Koch Brother front group.

            Conservatives know all about forcing their ways on unwilling people, slavery, women out of the voting boths, restricting the legal contract of marriage to a man and a women, discriminating agaist homosexual. People do not have a right to bigotry DaveH if that bigotry denies liberty. Conservatives are so clueless about so much.

          • JeffH

            What does it mean to be a progressive? What is the importance of the term relative to our lives today? Who were the progressives, the political ancestors of the today’s Democrats? Most importantly is whether or not progressivism is hostile to individual freedom… understanding so helps clarify what is in store for us when we hear politicians and activists tell us they favor progressive policies.

            Progressivism advocates—then and now—a total break from the principles of freedom articulated in our founding documents, particularly the Declaration of Independence. It seeks to either get around or dismantle limitations on government power, the very constitutional limitations established in the Constitution for the protection of individual freedom.

            For this reason, the progressives desire for something old in world history, not something new. In the context of individual freedom progressives seek to roll back, not forward, the hands of progress; they seek regression, not progression.

            Progressives simply do not think there is, or should be, individual political freedom as understood during the Founding. At the same time they did not disparage or reject the public use of the word, freedom; they simply redefined the meaning to suit their centralized authoritarian agenda.

            If someone like Dave47D calls themselves progressive and still hold to the idea of individual freedom, they will be unsettled when they read the words of past and present progressive intellectuals and politicians. Progressives believed individuals are part of a larger social whole, a whole that needs to be formed and molded to their vision of reality and mankin.

            Progressive intellectual John Dewey:
            “Democracy has many meanings, but if it has a moral meaning, it is found in resolving that the supreme test of all political institutions and industrial arrangements shall be the contribution they make to the all-around growth of every member of society.”

            In his second year as president FDR echoed the progressive theme and insisted on “a broader definition” of freedom. Here is an example from one of his famed radio addresses, the “fireside chats”:

            “…a return to that definition of liberty under which for many years a free people were being gradually regimented into the service of the privileged few. I prefer that broader definition of liberty under which we are moving forward to a greater freedom, a greater security for the average man than he has ever known in the history of America.” (1934)

            For Roosevelt and the progressives individual freedom was itself insufficient and even detrimental to society. They could build “a greater freedom” beyond individual freedom. The understanding, the very definition, had to be broadened and changed. How is this greater freedom achieved? Through government, not in spite of government.

            Are people by themselves incapable of avoiding exploitation? Will they by themselves be “regimented” into service? Need we the paternal nurturing of The State as if we are helpless children in the wilderness of unbridled individual freedom?)

            In order for Americans to accept socialism, socialists have to dress it up in freedom’s cloak. This gives us hope and an opportunity. No one, seeking to push any agenda onto the public, disparages freedom or the Constitution; they have to give freedom some kind of lip service. They are playing on freedom’s home field, not the other way around.

            Partisans of freedom need not play word games like progressives. We simply need to educate ourselves and those around us, to let the lessons of liberty guide and instruct us. If enough people appreciate this fundamental understanding of freedom and the Constitution, no politician, elitist, or media talking head can sell us socialism.

            -source: Freedom Lessons – Progressives & Tug-O-War

          • Dave

            Jeffrey,
            More nonsensical propaganda from a conservative citing a conservative source.
            You and your ilk could never ask progressives about our beliefs and understand, yours is always to demonize, falsely accuse and lie because you know the history of conservatism in America. I don’t need a blowhard like your “sources” and the extremist writers here… I just need to pick up a history book. The enemies of freedom are abound with conservatives… the KKK, Dixiecrats, those who desired to keep women from the vote.
            Those are your side’s ancestry. I understand why you’d want to distance yourselves from your record but the record is what it is. You can’t change history as much as you would like to.

          • JeffH

            Ignorant Dave47D , you just can’t stand the truth that the facts bare out can you?

            History offers all of the facts that were presented above, not the revisionist history of progressivism that has tainted your and your fellow ignorant progressives minds.

            None are so blind as an ignorant self proclaimed progressive. – anonymous

          • JeffH

            Here is the ignoramus Dave47D cavorting with his pals at his favorite eatery…The Trough…speaking a language that most of us still don’t understand.

            Take a peek into Dave47D’s world….
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BojEZAuXyo

          • Dave

            Here is poor Jeffery who cannot refute what is the truth about conservatives… Dixiecrats were conservative… The KKK are conservative… and those who fought against freedom for minorities, women, homosexuals are on the conservative side of the spectrum.

            Poor Jeff can’t handle the truth so all he can do is attack. If I had the horrible record on liberty, equality, protecting this country and fiscal responsibility that conservatives have had since Reagan, I would be unhinged too…

          • JeffH

            Refute it? There’s nothing of substance to refute in the lies you spew so why would any intelligent human being lower themselves to your level of ignorance by wasting their time. Keep posting though, so others can continue to see just how low you’re willing to go with your ignorance.

            POLLY WANT MORE CRACKERS?

            Here is Dave47D with his buddies.

            baahhhhh! bahhhhh! bahhhhhh!

          • Dave

            Where are the lies Jeffrey? Are you saying the Dixiecrats are not conservative? Or the KKK? Or that conservatives ( the types that like to preserve the old order of things) were not trying to stop civil rights?

            When you come up with ANY source that states these people above were liberals then you might something else other than a bald face liar

          • JeffH

            You’re loosing your marbles Dave47D!
            Educate yourself you ignoramous!

            Although your twisted and off center questions are meant to deflect us away from your delusional idiocy I’ll play for a little while.

            Absolutley I’m saying that! The idea that “the Dixiecrats were conservatives” is a bold faced lie.

            The Dixiecrats were members of the States’ Rights Democratic Party, which splintered from the Democratic Party in 1948.

            The Dixiecrat Myth
            http://www.black-and-right.com/2010/03/19/the-dixiecrat-myth/
            The idea that “the Dixiecrats joined the Republicans” is not quite true either. But because of Strom Thurmond it is accepted as a fact.
            The fact is that the **next** generation (post 1965) of white southern politicians — Newt, Trent Lott, Ashcroft, Cochran, Alexander, etc — joined the GOP.

            It was really a passing of the torch as the old segregationists retired and were replaced by new young GOP guys. One particularly galling aspect to generalizations about “segregationists became GOP” is that the new GOP South was INTEGRATED , they accepted the Civil Rights revolution.

            Dixiecrats—The States’ Rights Party, 1948
            The “Dixiecrats,” was a rump party that split off from the national Democratic party and ran candidates in the 1948 presidential election.
            http://www.alabamamoments.state.al.us/sec54.html

            The KKK was the terrorist wing of the Democrat Party.
            Our nation’s top historians reveal that the Democratic Party gave us the Ku Klux Klan, Black Codes, Jim Crow Laws and other repressive legislation which resulted in the multitude of murders, lynchings, mutilations, and intimidations (of thousands of black and white Republicans). On the issue of slavery: historians say the Democrats gave their lives to expand it, the Republicans gave their lives to ban it.
            http://realdemocrathistory.wordpress.com/category/kkk/

            How do you like to eat your JIM CROW…with or without the feathers?

          • JeffH

            You’re loosing your marbles Dave47D!
            Educate yourself you ignoramous!

            Although your twisted and off center questions are meant to deflect us away from your delusional idiocy I’ll play for a little while.

            Absolutley I’m saying that! The idea that “the Dixiecrats were conservatives” is a bold faced lie.

            The Dixiecrats were members of the States’ Rights Democratic Party, which splintered from the Democratic Party in 1948.

            The Dixiecrat Myth
            http://www.black-and-right.com/2010/03/19/the-dixiecrat-myth/
            The idea that “the Dixiecrats joined the Republicans” is not quite true either. But because of Strom Thurmond it is accepted as a fact.
            The fact is that the **next** generation (post 1965) of white southern politicians — Newt, Trent Lott, Ashcroft, Cochran, Alexander, etc — joined the GOP.

            It was really a passing of the torch as the old segregationists retired and were replaced by new young GOP guys. One particularly galling aspect to generalizations about “segregationists became GOP” is that the new GOP South was INTEGRATED , they accepted the Civil Rights revolution.

            Dixiecrats—The States’ Rights Party, 1948
            The “Dixiecrats,” was a rump party that split off from the national Democratic party and ran candidates in the 1948 presidential election.
            http://www.alabamamoments.state.al.us/sec54.html

            The KKK was the terrorist wing of the Democrat Party.
            Our nation’s top historians reveal that the Democratic Party gave us the Ku Klux Klan, Black Codes, Jim Crow Laws and other repressive legislation which resulted in the multitude of murders, lynchings, mutilations, and intimidations (of thousands of black and white Republicans). On the issue of slavery: historians say the Democrats gave their lives to expand it, the Republicans gave their lives to ban it.
            http://realdemocrathistory.wordpress.com/category/kkk/

            How do you like to eat your JIM CROW…with or without the feathers?

          • JeffH

            Nut case and raving lunatic Dave47D goes on to say “When you come up with ANY source that states these people above were liberals then you might something else other than a bald face liar.”

            Got your undies all bunched up do ya?
            Did your voice go up a few octaves too?
            Just askin’!

            Well, considering I’ve never said they were liberals in the first place I’d say your fishing tactics ain’t workin’ and need to be refined.

            Me thinks the website participants have figured out who the real “bald faced liar” is…that is if they read your comments at all…The winner is that lunatic and self proclaimed ignoramus progressive Dave47D.

          • Dave

            So you finally agree that the Dixiecrats were conservative… Good that you finally accept that fact. That my little conservative follower is your side’s record of achievement. Those people were certainly not liberal. But a fool like you needs to believe any lie that makes conservatives look like they cared about equal rights when it mattered.

            Good night

          • JeffH

            Typical response from the ignorant progressive Dave47D…seeing things that ain’t there and trying to put words in someone elses mouth.

            You’re a complete and utter loon and a lot dumber than even I thought if that’s what you got out of all of that!

            Seek some serious help you ignoramus!

          • Dave

            Once again reality escapes you Jeffrey. The social conservaticves that were Dixiecrats, are now Republicans. You are just angry that I aired the conservative dirty laundry. You are a conservative and you side with the people that inhibit freedom and liberty. Deal with your history of conservatism in America. You should be angry with yourself for being dumb enough to be a conservative, i merely point out your side’s history.

          • JeffH

            Yada, yada, yada says Dave47D the repeating parrot.

            Fortunately all you’ve shown is that you are a repetative looney tune that has no sense of real history other than your own twisted revisionist history.

            Don’t stop posting though…keep putting your ignorance out there so the rest of the readers can acually see to what lengths a disconnected progressive ignoramus must go to convince itself it’s right.

            The ignoramus says “i merely point out your side’s history”

            Wrong, what you pointed out is just how stupid you can be.

            Seek help ignorant Dave47D, seek help.

          • Dave

            Can’t handle the truth so you call names and try to lie. You tried posting a link to try and validate somehow that it was fiscal not social reasons why southern politicians moved from the Democratic party to the GOP. The author of the piece doesn’t even address that.

            Ok Jeffery, here is your time to shine… what event caused this massive shift from a fiscal and Gov size perspective? I await your answer with baited breath.

            Until, then… you and the other anti-liberty conservatives will just have to live with the conservative record. LOL…
            But keep trying to run away from your history… It is good comedy.

          • JeffH

            Seek help ignorant looney tune Dave47D, seek help.

          • Dave

            face it Jeffrey… You lost. Now go to the gun range so you can feel like a man again.

          • JeffH

            Seek help ignorant Dave47D.

          • JeffH

            Nut case and raving lunatic Dave47D goes on to say “When you come up with ANY source that states these people above were liberals then you might something else other than a bald face liar.”

            Got your undies all bunched up do ya?
            Did your voice go up a few octaves too?
            Just askin’!

            Well, considering I’ve never said they were liberals in the first place I’d say your fishing tactics ain’t workin’ and need to be refined.

            Me thinks the website participants have figured out who the real “bald faced liar” is…that is if they read your comments at all…The winner is that lunatic and self proclaimed ignoramus progressive Dave47D.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            The usual ad hominem attack from an ignorant Liberal Progressive who is not intelligent enough to argue ideas.
            Ignorance is one thing. Purposeful ignorance is quite another. And Worst of all is trying to spread that ignorance to other people. You’re despicable, Dave.
            But thank you for revealing more of the personality of a typical Liberal Progressive. You’re going to have a hard time convincing anybody on this board that you want what’s best for them.

            Dave says — “Conservatives know all about forcing their ways on unwilling people, slavery, women out of the voting boths, restricting the legal contract of marriage to a man and a women, discriminating agaist homosexual”.
            Have you seen me advocating any of those things, Dave? Why are you boring me with such claptrap?

          • Dave

            “Have you seen me advocating any of those things, Dave?”
            Same place you seen me advocating big Gov and socialism Davey….
            That is the history of conservatism in America. Deal with it.

          • Barack Embalmer

            Yawn……………..zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

          • Dave

            I know Timbo, we should listen to the definitions of Liberals/Progressives given to use by partisan conservative hacks like DaveH. They have no ax to grind.
            you must have been first on your debate team.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Dave says — “I guess negative exposure is better than no exposure”.
            You should know, Dave, with all those thumbs down you get.
            Dave says — “Thank you for all the lying you do about liberals and progressives because as old white men become less and less of the population”.
            Talk about racist remarks. And slander on one of the site authors on top of it.
            I think it’s about time for Dave to meet Eddie47D.
            But thank you Dave for all your valuable aid in our exposing of Liberal Progressive depravity.

          • Dave

            I wear thumbs down from conservatives as a badge of honor.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Of course you would.

  • SunEast 孫東

    Greetings from Singapore, Hong Kong and China Chip, pardon my lack of diplomacy toward the host.
    http://www.hongkongbusiness.hk
    Pen: SunEast

  • TML

    Informing the American public about government spying, done in contravention to the 4th Amendment, can in no logical or reasonable way be considered treason as defined in Article 3 Section 3 of the Constitution. Period – end of story.

    • BigIron8

      However, what the Government has done and authorized in their name certainly could be.

  • Jackie

    He is a hero. If whistleblowers are silence we are all screwed. If the government can silence all dissent we are all screwed. The absence of these things by definition is a dictatorship

  • ONTIME

    WTP are caught between a rock and a hard place, we cannot rid ouselves fast enough of the likes of the Faker in the WH and all his thugs, Snowden is just a brainy idiot and has the backbone of a earthworm, his act of obvious material theft is subject to charges of treason. Had he been smart enough to go to a reliable sheltering source he would not be in the fix he is in. He had a chance to really help remove this idiot in our Oval Office and only compounded the problem by asking a communist country to help him out…

    • BigIron8

      Snowden would be “disappeared” were our PTB “thugs” able to get at him. No doubt Breitbart thought he was safe as did the latest “whistleblower” who so recently was “Breitbarted”. … Just an accident!

  • Darek

    Of course, he is hero!!

    He sacrificed everything what he loves in his country. He
    has done this for love to his fellow beings; he has done this for his country;
    the country that was taken over by group of criminal psychopaths.

    Criminals that terrorize not only own people but people around
    the world (Iraq, Lydia, Syria, Afghanistan, and many other countries)

  • TIME

    Dear Chip,

    I too am still not 100% sure what to think about this event, I concur that his reply was indeed one that express’s no possibility that he did this for pecuniary gain.

    Thus one is left with the obvious answer that he did what he feels is correct.

    On that note, I have to make note of the fact that with over 100 Scientist who have died of rather {odd / bizarre circumstances} over the last 15 years, again all of whom exposed their findings to the proper authorities.

    Thus one is left with the question – would Mr. Snowden been within the same cast as the Scientist if he had done what many feel is the proper method to expose criminal behavior? After all this is not, the feckless TV show Law and Order on nbc.

    As well we who do have our eyes open know that the Mass media is little more than an arm of the criminals within the political class whom are the puppets of the bankers who really run the show.

    Thus if Mr. Snowden had used these special bread of criminal how would this have played out? Can anyone really with a straight face think they would have ever heard of Mr. Snowden?

    Even though many of us know what Mr. Snowden exposed, thus it was really not all that unique to many of us.
    But, the up side is that what he has done is open the eyes of many who think that we who do see – who by the way are noted as “conspiracy theory nuts,” > not only have been telling people the truth, we were dead on.

    But I digress – as everything is really quite obvious to anyone if they just stop and think about what they see, or hear.

    Anyway a fine blog Chip with no edge, also as the news purports to be doing, Asking the Hard questions.

    I have no opinion as I have only the information that we all have, thus I can’t form an opinion on such.

    But I do strongly feel that Mr. Snowden’s life would be over within 100 hours of returning to this Police State known as the United States inc.
    That in and of its self is an answer that’s quite obvious to anyone who’s eyes are open.

    Peace and Love

  • BigIron8

    Snowden IS a TRUE “Hero of the People”! HE was very wise to leave the USA and seek a “place” that would make it more difficult for the PTB “minions” in our current “unlawful” and corrupt government to get at him. Snowden’s “survival” is a key element in bringing this evidence before the proper Court of the “people”.

    Breitbart and others are prime examples of what our runaway [rogue] government is capable of doing and willing to do to those who challenge their usurped “powers” and their “unlawful” and corrupt policies. Congress has proven itself incapable of taking the proper actions so many times in the past that no one really even expects them to do so at this point.

  • Newspooner

    You might be a Neocon if: You think that Edward Snowden’s crime was bigger than the crimes that he exposed.

  • http://cowboybyte.com/ Alondra

    Former Democratic Congressman Dennis Kucinich, Republican Sen. Rand Paul, Judge Andrew Napolitano and even hypocrit Bill O’Reilly have all referred to Snowden as a hero.

    P.S. Edward Snowden is a Traitor for the LawLess Tyrannical Mentally PERVERT and Sexually DEPRAVED illegal pRESIDENT and his fascist/ communist regime, but for the FREEDOM and LIBERTY lovers he is a Hero, who stood up against the oppressive DICTATORSHIP.

  • JeffH

    Time to indict the political class!

    Citizens themselves can impanel a grand jury, and if a true bill of indictment
    results, the courts are technically required to commence proceedings and the
    executive branch to enforce the court’s edicts. However, if the courts refuse
    and the executive branch does not carry out its duties by, for instance,
    arresting the criminally accused, Americans do have a right to make “citizens
    arrests,” hold trials and legally mete out punishment in their own right.
    Indeed, this is what occurred in the western part of the United States, in
    particular, during our early years as a nation — before there was a developed
    federal court system and executive branch.

    Given the increasingly corrupt and treasonous actions of our public officials,
    which have nearly destroyed our republic, and the almost complete breakdown of the justice system as run by the government, the time has come for we Americans to rise up and use the God-given rights left to us by our founders. We can do this by using citizen-impanelled and administered grand juries to hold presidents like Obama and others at the highest levels of government accountable for the crimes that have driven our nation to the brink of extinction.
    http://www.citizensgrandjury.com/120420-klayman.php

    • Jeff

      And who will be the Vigilante In Chief? You? Maybe Alondra can be your bailiff. It would make for good theatre as you’re led to your comfortable padded cell.

      • JeffH

        Unhinged Jeff’s talent to endure stems from his ignorance of alternatives.

        • Dave

          So Bob tells you “unhinged” is the word of the week and you happily comply like the good little follower you are. Don’t run to fast now… you will run up his rectum too far and you may not get out. But then again, you are most happy there.

          • Jeff

            He doesn’t know too many words, so it’s not a big deal. I suggested he trade one of his guns for a new insult dictionary, but the evidence so far is he hasn’t.

          • WTS/JAY

            But you did! (-:

          • Jeff

            Good doggie, Jay. Stop licking my face. Down, boy.
            What you are parroting would be impossible for me to accomplish as I’ve never owned a gun.

          • WTS/JAY

            So what did you trade for your insult-dictionary…a copy of the Constitution? Btw, why don’t you like guns? Is it because they come in black?

          • Jeff

            I find them completely unnecessary, and I don’t care for the people who gravitate toward them. Having one in your house makes you less safe, not more. Now, that’s for human houses. When you live in a Snoopy house, maybe you should have a gun. Those neighborhood cats will scratch your eyes out!

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            More ignorance. But then, that’s what we’ve come to expect from Jeff:
            http://www.amazon.com/More-Guns-Less-Crime-Understanding/dp/0226493636
            http://www.amazon.com/Bias-Against-Guns-Everything-Control/dp/0895261146/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1374881686&sr=1-3&keywords=john+lott
            https://www.gunowners.org/sk0802htm.htm
            So one might ask — “If the preponderance of facts say that guns make society safer, why wouldn’t people like Jeff be a little more polite to those who advocate guns and give them the benefit of the doubt?”.
            Indeed.

          • JeffH

            Why DaveH asks? Because you can’t fix stupid, that’s why!

          • Jeff

            Guns always get the benefit of the doubt. Isn’t that what GOP stands for – Guns Over People?

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            What does Jeff stand for — Jammed Enormously Full of Feces?

          • Jeff

            Dave, that’s just so clever. I didn’t know you were capable of saying something not parroted from an Austrian.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Since the statistics prove that more lives are saved by guns than taken wrongly by them, it is pretty clear that the people who mean us harm are the anti-gunners.

          • Jeff

            If you want to believe the nonsense put out by the gun industry and its lobby (aka the NRA), go right ahead. I’ll stick with the real studies rather than the apocryphal stories of make believe women holding off gangs of robbers and rapists with a gun.

            http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/05/15/guns-in-your-home-a-statistical-accident-waiting-to-happen/

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            “According to a report filed by the Washington State Department of Social Health Services, a child or teen is killed once every seven and a half hours with a gun, either by accident or by suicide. In 72 percent of these cases, the firearm used was housed in the victim’s own residence. Many of these weapons were locked away in a secure place, yet 48 percent of those who own guns do not equip them with child safety and trigger locks”.
            Dramatic as that may sound, it amounts to 1168 lives a year. And notice they don’t break out the number that were suicides of which many would have been performed by some other method if not a gun. And how would trigger locks stop somebody intent on killing themselves? The article was a biased piece of doo doo which is typical of fanatical anti-gunners.
            Typical of the biased article is this sentence — “Many of these weapons were locked away in a secure place, yet 48 percent of those who own guns do not equip them with child safety and trigger locks”.
            Why didn’t they break out the number of those “locked away in a secure place” which had trigger locks? Talk about typical Liberal Progressive equivocation.
            A much better course of action by people who were really concerned about the children would be to teach them gun safety in school or at home. But the Propagandists (yourself included, Jeff) don’t really care about the children. They are just using them as the means to their ends which are total confiscation of guns and subjugation of the citizens.
            According to the previous article I posted, even a study commissioned by the anti-gun Clinton administration admitted that 1.5 million people a year save themselves with guns.
            Let’s see 1.5 million or 1168. Duh, which of those numbers is bigger? Hint, Jeff, you’ll have to do more than count on your fingers to figure that one out.

          • Jeff

            It’s easy to downplay the suicides if one is basically a misanthrope. (You can explain that to Jay and Alondra if you like.) The thing is guns are the most lethal means of suicide and many young people who attempt suicide in less lethal ways and “fail” in the attempt do not repeat the attempt. It is logical that less guns would mean fewer suicides, too.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            And it’s easy to make an inanimate objects guilty for what people do to themselves if one is basically a troglodyte with no cognitive skills. Why don’t you rail to ban swimming, Jeff, since the number of deaths, among children age 1-14, due to drowning is about 5 times that of firearm deaths?
            You could at least be consistent about your feigned concern for children.

          • Jeff

            Is that the best you’ve got? Swimming pools? If a child drowns in a swimming pool, it’s nearly always because some adult was not watching. It’s why backyard pools should always be fenced if young kids are around. The gun is potentially deadly even when used as intended. In fact, killing is the gun’s ONLY purpose.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Jeff says — “If a child drowns in a swimming pool, it’s nearly always because some adult was not watching”.
            Who do you think reads your comments, Jeff? Apparently you think them too ignorant to figure out that the same thing would apply to accidental shootings or suicides.
            And people also commit suicides by driving off cliffs. Should we ban automobiles to prevent that?

            Jeff says — ” In fact, killing is the gun’s ONLY purpose”.
            Yes, it is. So are you proposing, Jeff, that we disarm all people including Government?

            Imagine, Folks, what it will be like if we let Jeff and his ilk disarm us. Already they help themselves to 40% of our production. Imagine how contemptuous of our property they will be when we’re helpless?

          • Jeff

            Apparently you do. And all the imaginary “folks” you’re always talking to. My point, Dave, was that guns are the most lethal and easiest suicide method. People who try other methods and fail often don’t try again. You can say you don’t care about them, but don’t pretend you’re too thick to understand the point.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Whether I care for them, or not, is a non-sequitur, Jeff. But you’ll try any low tricks to win won’t you?
            I have demonstrated that the statistics show that many more lives are saved by guns than taken by them, so that makes you gun-grabbers the ones who don’t care about people.

          • Barack Embalmer

            Yawn……………….zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

          • WTS/JAY

            Jeff: Having one in your house makes you less safe, not more.

            I think i just figured out your problem, Jeff; you don’t know how to use one. You probably just need some basic instructions, that’s all. Here, i’ll give you a free one right now. The barrel of a gun, you know, where the bullets come out of…? Well, it’s not supposed to be pointing towards you, but away from you. Capish? (-:

          • Jeff

            Statistics (that class you failed) say if you have a gun in your house it’s far more likely to be a source of tragedy than of salvation. I’m sure you and CB have a different view, but I’ll stick with the numbers. No one I know has ever needed a gun for anything. If you really need protection from the neighborhood cats, try a catcher’s mask.

          • JeffH

            Statistics or opinions? You provide your opinion but no links to substantiate your “so called” statistics and you expect someone here to take your word, the word of an unhinged progressive loon?

            Abuse of responsibility by legally armed citizens is rare, while successful defensive interventions against assaults on their lives and property are relatively commonplace.

            Gun ownership up. crime down!

          • WTS/JAY

            Provide links? Substantiate statistics? Jeff? No, i seriously doubt if Jeff could even provide a working definition of those terms. Crafting ad-hominims, and insults…? now that is Jeff’s specialty! He’s probably leafing through his insult-dictionary as we speak, and soon will be prepared to wow us with another humdinger! Wait for it….

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Statistics say that you, Jeff, being a Liberal Progressive, are likely to be a liar:
            https://www.gunowners.org/sk0802htm.htm

          • Jeff

            Like leopards, Creepy Bastards do not change their spots. Creep on, Dave.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Pay attention, Folks, these are the “compassionate” Liberal Progressives who want to make your personal choices for you.

          • Jeff

            Who are these folks you’re always speaking to? Nobody’s listening except 3 right wingers almost as creepy as you.

          • http://cowboybyte.com/ Alondra

            You forgot yourself, CREEPY Jeffry.

          • Jeff

            If I’m having a conversation with someone, I’m not “folks” as that implies others, such as yourself, are listening in. I was referring to CB’s audience – you, for example.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Poor little Jeffy. He can’t win a logical or factual debate, so he resorts to name-calling. If I give you a sucker, Jeffy, will you go home to mommy?

          • Jeff

            Dave, you NEVER stick to the issues when someone disagrees with your simple-minded posts. You ALWAYS get nasty and personal, accusing people of lying, of stupidity, of being on welfare, etc., etc. I’m giving you what you give everyone who disagrees with you. I will tell you this. Not more than the tiniest % of people will ever agree with your radical re-interpretation of the concept of society.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Who do you think you’re kidding, Jeff? All the readers need do is read our comments to see whose is mostly conjecture and personal attacks, and whose is based on facts.
            My “radical re-interpretation of the concept of society” is that of our Founders. But the British did think they were “radicals”, Jeff, as you do.
            http://mises.org/books/conceived4.pdf

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Then they must be voting often like you Democrats do, Jeff, since you regularly get 6 to 8 thumbs down.

          • Jeff

            Only a right wing lemming would be so concerned with his popularity on a blog inhabited by the likes of Alondra, Doggy Jay, and Jeff Hinged. Careful you don’t go over that cliff, CB.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            And there you have it, Folks. The Liberal Progressive Jeff could care less what you think. And he wants to make your personal decisions for you using Government as his proxy Forcers..

          • Barack Embalmer

            Make that four.

          • Barack Embalmer

            LoL

          • http://cowboybyte.com/ Alondra

            Not “likely”. It’s PROVEN FACT.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Once again the Liberal Progressives have succeeded in lowering the conversation.

          • JeffH

            Unhinged is all that’s needed to identify you and certainly a word that is more than appropriate to describe your mental state.

          • Jeff

            So, the “H” is for “Hinged”? Hinged to a morally bankrupt right wing ideology? It certainly fits. Send us a postcard after you’ve made a citizen’s arrest on Obama. You might start small, though. Try making a citizen’s arrest on a jaywalker. See how that goes before you take on someone with Secret Service protection.

          • WTS/JAY

            I see your insult-dictionary is serving you well, Jeff.

          • Barack Embalmer

            “Morally bankrupt right wing ideology?” Did you get that in a text from Anthony Weiner?

          • Jeff

            I think you’re more his type.

          • http://cowboybyte.com/ Alondra

            No, you are WRONG. He did get that from the Lefts’ apostle Alinsky’s gospel “Rules for Radicals: A Pragmatic Primer for Realistic Radicals”, which he dedicated to “the FIRST RADICAL known to man”:

            “Lest we forget at least an over-the-shoulder acknowledgment to the very first radical: from all our legends, mythology, and history (and who is to know
            where mythology leaves off and history begins — or which is which), the FIRST RADICAL known to man who rebelled against the establishment and did it so effectively that he at least won his own kingdom — Lucifer.” — Saul Alinsky

            Rule #1 “Power is not only what you have, but what the enemy thinks you have.”

            Jeffry thinks that we think that he has “power”. Isn’t laughable

            Rule #5 “SILENT the opposition: “Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.'”

            So far Jeffry did not realize it DOES NOT work, at least on this board.

            Rule #13 “Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it,
            and polarize it.” IGNORE reality and facts, shift to
            accusation and spread the blame“

            So far it did not work for Jeffry and other Left-wingers on this board.

            Conclusion: The team “obama organizing for America” flashed their and Soros’ money into the hell’s toilet.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            No doubt we could all learn plenty of insults from you Liberal Progressives if that is how we wanted to conduct ourselves.
            But we don’t.

          • JeffH

            You’re just an ignoramous Dave47D. Pay attention.
            If you couldn’t say something as stupid as that, you’d be known as silent Dave.

          • Dave

            And you are just a conservative Jeffrey which is another word for ignoramous. What does BobL want you to spout off about next?

          • WTS/JAY

            If i were you, i’d be more concerned with what obama would want you to spout-off next…stay on course, Dave!

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Polly want a cracker?

          • Dave

            First pete, now repeat….do you and JeffH have the same writer? If so, get some new material. This is old and tired like your political philosophy.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Your useless comments were old years ago.

          • Dave

            First pete, now repeat….do you and JeffH have the same writer? If so, get some new material. This is old and tired like your political philosophy.

        • Jeff

          If the alternative is mob justice with someone like you in the Robespierre role, no thank you!

          • Keith Luxton

            The French finally worked it out. Maybe they are slightly more intelligent than us. Personally I did not think so, that is until 50% of the population started to vote for communism

        • http://cowboybyte.com/ Alondra

          JeffH, I am so honored and thrilled to be with you in one
          company/party.

          “He that walks with WISE men WILL BE WISE” – King Solomon (Pr.14)

          “For the LORD gives wisdom; from His mouth come knowledge and understanding;” – King Solomon (Pr.2:6)

          “A wise man is strong. Yes!” – King Solomon (Proverbs 24)

      • SunEast 孫東

        Obviously you haven’t a clue who they are. You can disrupt all you want and confuse the ignorance; nevertheless, very soon they will depopulate you. Ever saw Inglorious Bastard?

        Have an Inglorious day!

        • JeffH

          One sharp arse tip on that Bowie…great for carving too.

    • Keith Luxton

      I am with you on that. We need all the politicos and many of the recently appoint judges up before a grand Jury facing a variety of treason charges.

  • chrisnj

    I see recently that Holder has promised Russia that the US will not seek the death penalty for Snowden if he is returned to the US for trial.

    Which means that it must be on the table at the White House.

    Think of that! Libs are all against execution of murderers, jihadists, and child molesters, but they seem hell-bent that anyone embarrassing ‘their’ president and undermining their carefully cultivated perception of an omnipotent all-powerful state as benign benefactor should pay the ultimate price.

    Personally I hope Snowden is able to find sanctuary, and ultimate pardon from a more enlightened president.

    Obama is the true traitor against the Constitution, with Holder complicit before, during, and after the fact. Hopefully Zero’s fate will be exile in obscurity, without benefit of the billions he is now alting away under the guise of foreign aid programs.

    • SunEast 孫東

      The “Core” will not let him off! It’s “same crap different presidents”;
      Besides, Putin already controls the “leak”.

    • boyscout

      You seem to blame the stem of the apple for its rotten core which has spread through out. Humphrey calls for former members in search of uncompromised opinion and so shows his opinion of the present ins. This whole issue is the product of what Mr. Livingston would most likely term Incrementalization.

      • SunEast 孫東

        Stem? You mean puppets/pawns; however, when the main puppet and pawns commits false flags, synthetic friendly fire, murder and treason…they are co-conspirators of the core and full fledged Treasonous SOBs…

    • TheOriginalDaveH

      Once you understand that Government is just a very large gang, everything they do becomes clear.

    • Maynard

      WRONG about all liberals. I am one of the most liberal and do not believe in executions because they cost the taxpayers more unless the appeal process is waved but it is needed to make sure of guilt and many cases have shown a condemned man was innocent. It is better to let a killer rot in jail, than kill an innocent person.

      I also do not think Obama is liberal even though he did pass a Romney type health plan that makes sure everyone can get medical care since it was not available to millions. I guess I am guilty of feeling compassion for my fellow citizens. But when it comes to our environment and our Constitution, I want them conserved. That has historically been a liberal point of view but I do not understand why.
      Some conservatives and liberals are beginning to see, if we agree, why should we fight? We need to spend our energy working together as much as possible to preserve our Constitution. The powers that be want us divided because it is easier to control us that way.

  • Oliver_K_Manuel

    Mr. Snowden’s fate will show us if the USA and USSR became separate masks of the same Big Brother after the USA ended its space program and relied on the USSR to go the International Space Station.

    Here’s the rest of the story of the consolidation of world governments under the United Nations in 1945 to save the world from nuclear annihilation:

    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10640850/Creator_Destroyer_Sustainer_of_Life.pdf

    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10640850/Creator_Destroyer_Sustainer_of_Life.doc

    With deep regrets,
    - Oliver K. Manuel
    Former NASA Principal
    Investigator for Apollo

  • Bella2

    Let us look at the definition of Traitor

    1. a person who betrays another, a cause, or any trust.

    2. a person who commits treason by betraying his or her country.

    Our nation was founded upon a document called ‘The Constitution’. Defending the precepts of this document is part of the sworn oath that all service people take upon entering the service. We are sworn to protect the Constitution from all enemies, foreign and domestic. OH MY GOSH!! All of our elected officials take the same oath…

    Defense of the Constitution is a TRUST that ‘We The People’ put in the hands of those who are elected to govern this nation. From what I have seen, there are few in office who are defending those precepts.

    If we are looking for traitors – we need only to look at the Executive, the Legislative, and the Judiciary branches of our government to find too many to name.

    • badcellist

      Bella2,

      Excellent point. The NSA surveillance is a gross abrogation of our 4th Amendment rights and gun control, a step at a time, eliminates our 2nd Amendment rights. I have no idea where the forced ObamaCare and Amnesty comes in…

      • TheOriginalDaveH

        Healthcare — By making people dependent on Government and giving the Government the ultimate decision on who lives and who dies.
        Amnesty — I’m sure they’re expecting that they will have a lock on the illegal vote, but they may just get a big surprise as the reason Mexico is an economic mess is that they have too much Government. So once the Illegals attain some education, they may very well turn on the Big Government advocates.

        • Maynard

          Mexico is struggling because people like Carlos Slim, the richest man in the world, do not want to use their wealth to help the people and because Mexico is full of polluting NAFTA sweat shops stealing the peoples’ labor. They need more government, NOT less, but just as with us they need a government of the people, by the people and for the people not the corporations.
          When the Supreme Court ruled that corporations were people, it was another nail in the coffin of the American way of life.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Maynard,
            The rich can’t take anything from you without the Force of Government to back them up.
            Mexico needs “more government, NOT less”?
            Just when do you Liberal Progressives throw in the towel and quit throwing more gasoline on the fire in the vain hopes of a miracle?
            http://www.heritage.org/index/country/mexico

          • JeffH

            I suspect Maynard is Maynard Runkle aka NC.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            I don’t see the similarity, Jeff. Maynard goes in and out of common sense, whereas NC is always out of it.

          • JeffH

            NC’s has posted using the name Maynard Runkle and I was just thinking “out loud” seeing a Maynard.

          • Nadzieja Batki

            You did write this, Maynard? You are trying to pass for an adult male with reasoning capabilities?

  • Native Blood

    He is Neither a Hero nor Traitor. He was a citizen who discovered overwhelming wrongdoing and decided that sacrificing his own liberty to inform his fellow citizens was worth the risk to his own life. He will never be a free man again.
    I admire what he has done for his fellow citizen but I pity what he must go through to survive.

    • Johnnygo7

      Your statement alone makes Snowden a hero.

  • WTS/JAY

    My creeping concern that the NSA leaker is not who he purports to be …

    This is in no way to detract from the great courage of Glenn Greenwald in reporting the story, and the gutsiness of the Guardian in showcasing this kind of reporting, which is a service to America that US media is not performing at all. It is just to raise some cautions as the story unfolds, and to raise some questions about how it is unfolding, based on my experience with high-level political messaging.

    Some of Snowden’s emphases seem to serve an intelligence/police state objective, rather than to challenge them.

    a) He is super-organized, for a whistleblower, in terms of what candidates, the White House, the State Dept. et al call ‘message discipline.’ He insisted on publishing a power point in the newspapers that ran his initial revelations. I gather that he arranged for a talented filmmaker to shoot the Greenwald interview. These two steps — which are evidence of great media training, really ‘PR 101″ — are virtually never done (to my great distress) by other whistleblowers, or by progressive activists involved in breaking news, or by real courageous people who are under stress and getting the word out. They are always done, though, by high-level political surrogates.

    b) In the Greenwald video interview, I was concerned about the way Snowden conveys his message. He is not struggling for words, or thinking hard, as even bright, articulate whistleblowers under stress will do. Rather he appears to be transmitting whole paragraphs smoothly, without stumbling. To me this reads as someone who has learned his talking points — again the way that political campaigns train surrogates to transmit talking points.

    c) He keeps saying things like, “If you are a journalist and they think you are the transmission point of this info, they will certainly kill you.” Or: “I fully expect to be prosecuted under the Espionage Act.” He also keeps stressing what he will lose: his $200,000 salary, his girlfriend, his house in Hawaii. These are the kinds of messages that the police state would LIKE journalists to take away; a real whistleblower also does not put out potential legal penalties as options, and almost always by this point has a lawyer by his/her side who would PROHIBIT him/her from saying, ‘come get me under the Espionage Act.” Finally in my experience, real whistleblowers are completely focused on their act of public service and trying to manage the jeopardy to themselves and their loved ones; they don’t tend ever to call attention to their own self-sacrifice. That is why they are heroes, among other reasons. But a police state would like us all to think about everything we would lose by standing up against it.

    d) It is actually in the Police State’s interest to let everyone know that everything you write or say everywhere is being surveilled, and that awful things happen to people who challenge this. Which is why I am not surprised that now he is on UK no-fly lists – I assume the end of this story is that we will all have a lesson in terrible things that happen to whistleblowers. That could be because he is a real guy who gets in trouble; but it would be as useful to the police state if he is a fake guy who gets in ‘trouble.’

    e) In stories that intelligence services are advancing (I would call the prostitutes-with-the-secret-service such a story), there are great sexy or sex-related mediagenic visuals that keep being dropped in, to keep media focus on the issue. That very pretty pole-dancing Facebooking girlfriend who appeared for, well, no reason in the media coverage…and who keeps leaking commentary, so her picture can be recycled in the press…really, she happens to pole-dance? Dan Ellsberg’s wife was and is very beautiful and doubtless a good dancer but somehow she took a statelier role as his news story unfolded…

    f) Snowden is in Hong Kong, which has close ties to the UK, which has done the US’s bidding with other famous leakers such as Assange. So really there are MANY other countries that he would be less likely to be handed over from…

    g) Media reports said he had vanished at one point to ‘an undisclosed location’ or ‘a safe house.’ Come on. There is no such thing. Unless you are with the one organization that can still get off the surveillance grid, because that org created it…

    continued: https://www.facebook.com/notes/naomi-wolf/my-creeping-concern-that-the-nsa-leaker-is-not-who-he-purports-to-be-/10151559239607949

  • Adolf Schmidt

    If our Government officials would honor the oath of office this matter would not exist! It is not really the information that Snowden has that gave our Government the black eye, but that our Government was gathering this information in the first place. There has been a loss of trust between ourselves and our Government, our Government and the whole world! We the people will bare the fallout of our leaders mistake! It is a lot harder to regain trust once lost. A good step to regain the trust of the world, would be to put control to our Government. We need a smaller, more manageable Government! We need a Government that can be held accountable without being in fear. To be in fear of calling our Government down on their actions is a clear example of tyranny!

    • jaybird

      We are having trouble controlling this administration because they are speaking with forked tongues. They say they are going to vote for something and then you see their records and they voted against it or vice versa. They also send a wishy washy explanation of why they changed their mind. When they have made a bad decision, everyone needs to write a letter to the editor of local newspaper and let the working people know.

      • Maynard

        Jaybird, this did not start with this administration. It is being continued from the Bush Administration. They are in cahoots! If Obama were really a liberal, he would have prosecuted Bush-Cheney people instead of Whistleblowers.

  • Jason

    Is Justin W. Hurst a NSA employee related to hate crime on Kenya man last year in Wisconsin? This sick story was published in the Wisconsin State Journal last year. Someone needs to take a serious look into this.
    However, the other accomplice David Dimaggio has already been convicted and sentenced last april 2013. What about Justin W. Hurst? I hope I’m wrong, because if I’m right then that just goes and show what kind of people work for the NSA. Here’s 2 links to a guy named Justin Hurst that works for the NSA. Justin Hurst @ Tomorrowisms and Justin Hurst on LinkedIn . com
    I Hope I’m wrong. Then this would be a big misunderstanding. I’m not totally against the NSA. It should be use to fight terrorist and not innocent people.

  • http://cowboybyte.com/ Alondra

    German PRESIDENT said whistleblowers like U.S. fugitive Edward Snowden DESERVE RESPECT FOR DEFENDING FREEDOM.

    “The fear that our telephones or mails are recorded and stored by foreign intelligence services is a constraint on the feeling of freedom and then the danger grows that freedom itself is damaged,” he said.

    “We are a democratic state with the rule of law with basic rights. FREEDOM is one of these BASIC RIGHTS.”

    Merkel has been at pains to maintain friendly relations with Washington at the same time as showing voters she understands their anger about reports of intrusive surveillance by the U.S. National Security Agency’s (NSA), where Snowden worked as a contractor.

    Referring to communism and Nazism, German President Gauck said Germany had painful experiences of living in a security state where no one was safe to speak out:

    “We Germans have had to experience the abuse of state power with secret services twice in our history. And therefore we are sensitive (to this) and our American friends must accept that.”

    http://ca.news.yahoo.com/german-president-says-whistleblowers-snowden-merit-respect-143315683.html

    • Keith Luxton

      The Americans are learning first hand what it is like with an active gestapo

    • Maynard

      Merkel is a woman, but I agree with you. Remember how Hitler vastly increased his powers. He claimed the communists had burned the Reichstag when he had it torched himself.

      It may be hard for us to accept that our government could be even more sinister. Here are a couple of facts that makes me regretfully believe they have been: Bomb-sniffing dogs were pulled out of the WTC on the Thursday before 9/11 and on the weekend before 9/11 Security doors and cameras were off and a “cable upgrade” was taking Place. Steve Forbes was working there and afterwards he reported it repeatedly but was ignored. You can see a video of him talking about it.
      White House insiders secretly started taking risky antibiotics for anthrax THREE WEEKS BEFORE any known threat.
      I could go on, but how much do you need to agree with Bob Livingstone and many, many others?

  • http://cowboybyte.com/ Alondra

    The Putin’s Press Secretary said today (July 26) that Russia WILL NOT extradite U.S. whistleblower Edward Snowden. He cited PRESIDENT Vladimir Putin:

    “Russia has NEVER extradited anyone AND WILL NOT extradite anyone in the future” http://www.interfax.ru/russia/news.asp?id=320505

    It means that Rasian PRESIDENT Putin showed middle finger to the Illegal pRESIDENT of the USA.

    So now the ILLEGAL pRESIDENT of the USA can relax.

    P.S. I am veeeery sorry if I did hurt anyone’s feelings on this board, but I am VEEEEERY pleased. Feel free to bash me. Please do not hesitate. TY

    • Oliver_K_Manuel

      What is released in press statements may mask what is said in private between Putin and Obama.

      Keep in mind that the USA ended its space program and now relies on the USSR to go the International Space Station.

      Mr. Snowden’s fate will reveal if there is any validity to the statement by Putin’s Press Secretary.

      With deep concerns,
      - Oliver K. Manuel
      Former NASA Principal
      Investigator for Apollo

      • Keith Luxton

        With Obama that is probably not all he goes to Putin for. Remember the open mike which caught from Obama to Putin “After the elections are over we will be able to do a lot more.”

      • http://cowboybyte.com/ Alondra

        The Kenyan FRAUD is a HYPOCRIT. Vladimir Putin is NOT.
        Putin calls a SPADE a SPADE. The Kenyan FRAUD calls a Spade a RAKE.

        This is a BIG difference between them.

    • SunEast 孫東

      Germany declared yesterday that Edward Snowden is officially the Whistleblower of the year…

      • http://cowboybyte.com/ Alondra

        Common sense winning.

  • heidi

    if mr snowden did not place the u.s. in danger, i do not consider him a traitor. all i have heard is the info about the govt snooping on its citizens. that info was already out and some of us out in the world have had our suspicions of the intent of this administration and it is not a positive one. also, why should mr snowden be punished when our govt has committed many atrocities and continues to do so.

    • SunEast 孫東

      You mean he placed the O-admin in danger!

  • Peter Wang

    These are really interesting comments about Snowden. Thank you all. Now, would someone like to tell me how law enforcement and the intelligence services are supposed to protect US citizens without electronic surveilliance?

    • SunEast 孫東

      Electronic surveillance is no different than a screw driver. How will you use it Peter?

      • Maynard

        Is that why our government is “screwing” us? Making us pay to be their targets instead of the enemies they have made for us by their trumped up wars and false flag lies.

        • SunEast 孫東

          “It’s the appearance of the forth kind” as Edward Griffin described it. It’s been the strategic structure of the global elite/bankster… I suggest reading Mr. Griffin’s “Creature of Jekyll Island” is because he summarized the lengthy event so well and complete and easy to read. His CD is also excellent for those don’t have time to read.

    • Oliver_K_Manuel

      How are we suppose to choose our leaders, Peter, if we don’t know what they are doing?

    • Keith Luxton

      That is what warrants are for

    • JLouisK

      Your rhetoric about how law enforcement and intelligence services ability to protect US citizens without electronic surveillance is ridiculus and has been used by the power mongers before. Go back to Orwell’s 1984, where big brother is protecting us, even from our own thoughts. Ooops, he’s here at my front door…..

    • mtman2

      That IS a good question! All this info is already kept available by the private corporations that can be subpoenaed with “DUE PROCESS”, though not legally viewable in storage by anyone! But NOT a secret FISA judge but a ELECTED congressional panel chosen to oversee bureaucratic operations; things like F+F, Benghazi, IRS, Waco etc NEED resolution with accountability: the same as WE get in RULE of LAW w/charges, -trial of accused crime/s ‘innocent or guilty’ and sentence commensurate with guilt! With any govmint ‘official’ a guilty verdict means immediate dismissal[your-fired],with all pay and benefits ended, retroactive to ascertained start of wrongful actions + seized, years if necessary! This would include wrongful charges if found to be unjustified, those responsible would be charged with the same consequences. Nowhere in OUR society do regular PEOPLE get away w/stalling + dancing around issues of criminal activity ending in NO charges or judgement. This rampant political + bureaucratic illegal activity is like a self replicating virus mimicking ‘OUR cells’ to feed on OUR life forces, sickening the whole body to escape judgement + accountablity! Parasites on Americans way of life, expected rule of law and Constitutional freedoms with guaranteed Rightful Liberties.
      GEORGE WASHINGTON-said-
      “Government is NOT reason, it is NOT eloquence, it is a force, like fire, a trouble some servant and a fearful master, NEVER for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action.”
      ABRAHAM LINCOLN -said-

      Shall we expect some transatlantic military giant to step the ocean and crush us at a blow?
      NEVER!
      All the armies of Europe, Asia and Africa combined, with all the treasure of the earth(our own excepted) in their military chest, with Bonaparte for a commander, could not by force take a drink from the Ohio or make a track on the Blue Ridge in a trial of a thousand years.
      At what point then is the approach of danger to be expected?
      I answer. If it ever reaches us it must spring up amongst us; it cannot come from abroad.
      If destruction be our lot we ourselves be its author and finisher.
      As a nation of freemen WE must live through all time or die by suicide.”

      I am sorry to say, but WE are but children compared to the men that built gave and preserved this nation for us and WE can only learn from what they knew and foresaw long ago, writing it down for us to ponder in respect and reverence.

    • TheOriginalDaveH

      I don’t need or want their protection. Who protects us from them? When they know every detail about every person’s life, how do we stop them from using that against those who they personally dislike? How would we stop unreasonable people like Jeff and Dave from making our lives miserable just because they have the Power to do that?
      It’s naive to think that the Government big enough to take care of you, isn’t also big enough to subjugate you.

      • Jeff

        CB:

        I heard you were talking about me. I wear being called unreasonable by someone like you as a badge of honor since you think what’s reasonable is dismantling all federal regulatory power, thereby turning over the keys to the economy to Exxon, the Koch Brothers, and anyone else who thinks it’s quaint to want clean air and rivers that are fireproof. BTW: Look for some major fireworks during the 2015-16 clown show sometimes referred to as the GOP Debates.

        http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/27/us/politics/christie-cites-9-11-in-assailing-libertarian-trend-in-gop.html?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20130727&_r=0

        • TheOriginalDaveH

          Pollution is a valid concern of Government since it is trespassing on other peoples’ bodies and property.
          The issue is whether to address that trespass by passing laws which are then enforced upon the guilty polluters in court, or by passing regulations which burden all people whether guilty of pollution or not. Regulations are used as political clubs by Politicians and Bureaucrats to give Crony Capitalists special protections and privileges over their competitors.
          You would know that, Jeff, if you weren’t a reactionary ignoramus:
          This is for other readers, not Jeff, as Jeff doesn’t have the mental capacity to understand it.
          http://mises.org/daily/2120#11

          • Jeff

            If you think Courts are capable of handling all of out pollution problems, you are truly deluded. First, federal or state courts? And what environmental standards would the courts be enforcing? State statutes? Federal statutes? How would they be different from regulations other than benefitting from the expertise of an actual regulator. You actually expect a Court to understand and enforce detailed pollution standards? No, you don’t and that’s just the point. Without a regulator to stop pollution in the first place, the polluter knows he can pollute, collect the benefits of the polluting activity, then evade the Court system for years through legal maneuvering, going out of business and reforming a different company, moving out of state or off shore, etc. I guess you Austrians never heard “an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.”

            You’d rather have a theoretical claim against a polluter than prevent the pollution from occurring. Sounds like the way our oil companies have operated in India and South America. Make a fortune, then evade the legal system for generations while the people have to live with the destruction.

          • Maynard

            You both agree we need to deal with pollution. Until we can get clean, alternative renewables in place (Remember Jimmy Carter attempted to get that going in the ’70’s?), we have to prosecute the polluters.

            One of the first acts of Obama’s energy czar was to kill the funding for research on hydrogen as a fuel. When burned its only byproduct is water vapor. It is light weight and less dangerous than heavy hydrocarbons which hang around the victims in an accident. Its in every drop of water and can now be produced using free sunlight in a process called artificial photosynthesis. You won’t hear much about it but GM, Hyundai, Volkswagen, Fiat, Mercedes-

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            If an energy concept was valid, it would stand on its own in the Free Marketplace (which we no longer have). Unwilling taxpayer funding is only necessary for projects that have little chance for success.

          • Dave

            When did the United States have a “free market” as you define it in the industrial age? So companies like big oil would never use their position in the energy market to stop new technology from seeing the light of day by buying them up correct? What stops that from happening in the “free market”?

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            In the 1800s, Government (local and federal) spent less than 5% of the GDP compared to the 40% they currently spend. While not perfectly Free, they were vastly Freer than what we have today, and during that time we grew into the most economically powerful nation on Earth.

            Dave says — “So companies like big oil would never use their position in the energy market to stop new technology from seeing the light of day by buying them up correct?”.
            Well, for one thing, Patents are not a Free Market policy. But even if they were, if you know anything about patent law, it is relatively easy to bypass a patent with some minor changes, so the idea of a company in a Free Marketplace buying up viable competing technologies and sitting on them would be ludicrous on their part. I have yet to see any factual exposes of any company doing any such thing. If the new technology was indeed revolutionary and superior, any corporate officer worth his salt would implement it and make a fortune replacing the old technology. And then they would move on to the next business.

            Read this and learn something, Dave, if you so choose:
            http://mises.org/Books/historyofmoney.pdf

          • Jeff

            And we grew even more powerful in the post-war years after the New Deal and the emergence of a larger middle class. Since the early 80s and the trend toward de-regulation, we have been moving in the opposite direction. A shrinking middle class with the greatest disparity between upper incomes and everybody else we’ve seen since, let’s see, 1929. I think that was also the last year a majority of economists agreed with your JBS views.

          • Jeff

            Not when any new technology requires huge amounts of capital to compete with existing fossil fuels. If we, as a society, decide it is worthwhile to invest in research and development toward hydrogen power, solar power, or any other alternative to fossil fuels, neither Adam Smith nor the Austrians are going to stop us. Big Oil clearly has an incentive to smother in its crib any nascent technologies that may someday supplant fossil fuels. If we want to wean ourselves off oil, the first step is R&D and that means government funding. Look at the example of Tesla. Government loan paid back a decade early plus the development of a battery light years beyond previous technology.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Jeff says — “Not when any new technology requires huge amounts of capital to compete with existing fossil fuels”.
            Oh please. If the idea is viable, the investment money will come pouring in, as it did for Sirius XM Radio, or Google, or any of the many other great advancements in our society.

            Jeff says — “If we, as a society, decide it is worthwhile to invest in research and development toward hydrogen power, solar power, or any other alternative to fossil fuels, neither Adam Smith nor the Austrians are going to stop us”.
            Who is “we”, kimosabe? You have a mouse in your pocket? So what you’re saying is that you advocate Mob Rule? That somehow theft becomes charity if enough of you get together to perform the theft? Thanks, Jeff, for exposing more of your Liberal Progressive ideology to the readers.

          • Jeff

            Extra Crispy DaveH:
            Yes, “we as a society” means me and my pet mouse. And everything you don’t like the government doing means it’s theft. There hasn’t been a pure market free of Government (read: societal) interference since the day after Adam Smith wrote “The Wealth of Nations.” BTW: The “invisible hand” was a small portion of that book. I suppose we should just ignore all the inventions that came out of WWII and the space program since they are insufficiently pure for your taste. Your argument is not even creepy; it’s just silly.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Talk about one big non sequitur and ad hominem.
            Without Government pillaging our economy, we would have more inventions, more productivity, and more Peace.
            Methinks you have lost all your marbles, Jeff.
            I think the Enterprise could reach Warp Speed in the vast space between your ears.

          • Jeff

            I have no problem with prosecuting the polluters, but that’s secondary to preventing the pollution in the first place. There will always be cheaters, and the Justice Dept. is there to deal with such companies both criminally and civilly. My problem is with relying on the Court system as the primary means of cleaning up the environment. It can’t work.
            I don’t know a lot about hydrogen power, but I’ll check it out. Maybe Dr. Chu didn’t feel the technology was sufficiently advanced to warrant government investment. I don’t know and will have to rely on the opinions of experts, but experts who actually believe there is a place for government investment in new technologies.

          • TheOriginalDaveH

            Jeff says — “How would they be different from regulations other than benefitting from the expertise of an actual regulator”.
            Didn’t you read the article, Jeff? Must I wipe you?
            They would be different because they would be passed by the Law-making body of either the State or the Federal Government. As such, they would have to go through the rigorous process of debate within those bodies, and they would be explicit — not the subjective interpretation of some self-interested bureaucrat who is saddling all companies (good or bad) with productivity-stifling obstacles. Plus, and most importantly, those bodies of Law are subject to the approval of the voters unlike the bureaucratic bodies who are not.

            Jeff says — “You actually expect a Court to understand and enforce detailed pollution standards?”.
            Yes, imagine that, both sides would get to tell their story. Heaven forbid that there would be justice instead of Jeff’s vision of a kangaroo court (as in regulatory bodies who are not accountable to the voters). Apparently, Jeff is accusing the $300/hr lawyers of not having as much sense as the bureaucrats. I believe the lawyers would take exception to that.

            Jeff says — ” I guess you Austrians never heard “an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure””.
            Yes. We have. That’s why we’re trying to prevent you Liberal Progressives from ruining our country like your kind have done to so many other countries in the world.

  • SunEast 孫東

    Congress is advancing official sanctions against Russia or any other country offering asylum to Edward Snowden.
    The measure is in response to Obama’s fear indeed…

  • mtman2

    When it all hit, -I 1st said he’s rightly disturbed about what WE all figured was the case but should have gone to Rand Paul! He I believe would’ve put the info out to the likes of Ted Cruz, Mike Lee, his father and a few others! They could encircle Snowden + the fulness of truth to connect with media outlets THEY approved, to bring down a wall of protection with the 1st Amendment. Now it’s an all out free-for-all.with NO certainty but confused outcomes.

  • tim marvin

    HERO

  • The Snarf

    Chip, do you really think, with the present admin., that Snowden would actually get an open and public trial? Those that work in darkness hate being exposed to the light.

  • SunEast 孫東

    Well DaveH here’s my input on the current China:

    Looking back through history, China is one of

    the countries that have never invaded anybody.

    In fact, China’s been a very defensive country. The Great Wall was built to

    keep the Mongol warriors and others out. The idea that after 5,000 years of

    history, China’s all of a sudden going to start grabbing land with guns — it’s

    just not part of the business model of the country’s management.”

    The model, instead, is commerce: Rather than invading around the world, China invests. In the process, it has been reaping the commercial rewards. Investing and building in developing markets around the globe is bringing new customers to the manufacturers and service providers of China.

    Everyone is so focused on building wealth, it’s infectious. As soon as you land

    and the airplane’s door opens, you get this incredible rush. And you can’t wait

    to get back once you leave. It’s as if there’s something in the air — an

    economic drug that makes you that much more driven!

    China lets people be as successful as they can and will not interfere, and

    in most cases will facilitate getting projects done that would never get done

    in the United States or Europe. And they’ll get it done in time spans that are

    unfathomable to most major construction companies or firms that specialize in

    project management.

    Case in point: a maker of sophisticated electronics that partners with Samsung.

    They did a project most people would say — if you could get the land, permits

    and everything else in the United States — would take five-10 years to get

    done. The Chinese got it done in under 12 months.”

    It’s become fashionable to declare that China’s boom is a bubble, destined for

    catastrophic and perhaps irreversible failure. Neil will have none of it.

    “There are plenty of companies that have severe issues, but you can make that same statement about any market anywhere on the planet.”

    For every tenet of the China-bashers’ playbook there’s a response:

    · Empty skyscrapers (and for that matter empty

    cities)? He’s seen them. “But I’ve also seen huge demand for educated

    workforces to fill those buildings. China is trying to develop nice places for

    people to live as they continue to move up.”

    ·Skewed economic statistics? No more skewed

    than those in the US. And China’s are slowly becoming more reliable, judging by the discussions Neil has had with his students — some of whom work in China’s National Bureau of Statistics. “The quality of the numbers is improving as you get better-educated people in the agency.”

    . A slumping export trade? It’s no longer about what Westerners are buying from China. “Over the past year alone, exports to the United States and the EU aren’t impressive, but to the rest of Asia,

    exports are up more than 8.8%. Exports to Africa are up more than 9.3%. And

    exports to Latin America are surging by more than 12.1%.”

    China has broken the mold in its
    transition to a market economy. Business success in the former Soviet bloc countries depends entirely on who you know.

    In contrast, “The vast majority of successful Chinese don’t try to take

    advantage of the system. They simply try to conduct their business and commerce despite the system.”

    • Arkham

      Sun East-

      “Looking back through history, China is one of

      the countries that have never invaded anybody.”

      Your history is a little mistaken. Ask the Tibetans. China brutally invaded Tibet claiming that it was alway a province of China – nonsense. They Tibetans and Chinese do not have a common language or culture. The Tibetans and Chines look no more alike than do Swedes and Greeks. The Chinese have systematically tried to eradicate the Tibetan language and culture.

      Looking further back into history, Chinese “unification” involved endless bloody wars between kingdoms and the killing of countless thousands.

      The Chinese have gotten smart. They don’t need to invade militarily when they can do it economically. In present day Cambodia, under the guise of economic development, the Chinese create opportunity for Cambodians willing to abandon their language for jobs. Soon Cambodia will virtually be another province of China.

      So when you say China never invaded anyone, think again.

      • SunEast 孫東

        Arkham… China and Tibet conflict is a struggle over 1500 years, it is not a current invasion. During that time China has not yet unified completely yet. Nevertheless, here’s a brief history:

        For at least 1500 years, the nation of Tibet has had a complex relationship with its large and powerful neighbor to the east, China. The political history of Tibet and China reveals that the relationship has not always been as one-sided as it now appears. Indeed, as with China’s relations with the Mongols and the Japanese, the balance of power between China and Tibet has shifted back and forth over the centuries.

        The first known interaction between the two states came in 640 A.D., when the Tibetan King Songtsan Gampo married the Princess Wencheng, a niece of theTang Emperor Taizong. He also married a Nepalese princess. Both wives were Buddhists, and this may have been the origin of Tibetan Buddhism. The faith grew when an influx of Central Asian Buddhists flooded Tibet early in the eighth century, fleeing from advancing armies of Arab and Kazakh Muslims.

        During his reign, Songtsan Gampo added parts of the Yarlung River Valley to the Kingdom of Tibet; his descendants would also conquer the vast region that is now the Chinese provinces of Qinghai, Gansu, andXinjiang between 663 and 692. Control of these border regions would change hands back and forth for centuries to come.

        In 692, the Chinese retook their western lands from the Tibetans after defeating them at Kashgar. The Tibetan king then allied himself with the enemies of China, the Arabs and eastern Turks. Chinese power waxed strong in the early decades of the eighth century. Imperial forces under General Gao Xianzhi conquered much of Central Asia, until their defeat by the Arabs and Karluks at the Battle of Talas River in 751. China’s power quickly waned, and Tibet resumed control of much of Central Asia. The ascendant Tibetans pressed their advantage, conquering much of northern India and even seizing the Tang Chinese capital city of Chang’an (now Xian) in 763. Tibet and China signed a peace treaty in 821 or 822, which delineated the border between the two empires. The Tibetan Empire would concentrate on its Central Asian holdings for the next several decades, before splitting into several small, fractious kingdoms. Canny politicians, the Tibetans befriended Genghis Khan just as the Mongol leader was conquering the known world in the early 13th century. As a result, though the Tibetans paid tribute to the Mongols after the Hordes had conquered China, they were allowed much greater autonomy than the other Mongol-conquered lands. Over time, Tibet came to be considered one of the thirteen provinces of the Mongolian-ruled nation ofYuan China. During this period, the Tibetans gained a high degree of influence over the Mongols at court.

        The great Tibetan spiritual leader, Sakya Pandita, became the Mongol’s representative to Tibet. Sakya’s nephew, Chana Dorje, married one of the Mongol Emperor Kublai Khan’s daughters. The Tibetans transmitted their Buddhist faith to the eastern Mongols; Kublai Khan himself studied Tibetan beliefs with the great teacher Drogon Chogyal Phagpa.

        Independent Tibet:

        When the Mongols’ Yuan Empire fell in 1368 to the ethnic-Han Chinese Ming, Tibet reasserted its independence and refused to pay tribute to the new Emperor. In 1474, the abbot of an important Tibetan Buddhist monastery, Gendun Drup, passed away. A child who born two years later was found to be a reincarnation of the abbot, and was raised to be the next leader of that sect, Gendun Gyatso. After their lifetimes, the two men were called the First and Second Dalai Lamas. Their sect, the Gelug or “Yellow Hats,” became the dominant form of Tibetan Buddhism. The Third Dalai Lama, Sonam Gyatso (1543-1588), was the first to be so named during his life. He was responsible for converting the Mongols to Gelug Tibetan Buddhism, and it was the Mongol ruler Altan Khan who probably gave the title “Dalai Lama” to Sonam Gyatso. While the newly-named Dalai Lama consolidated the power of his spiritual position, though, the Gtsang-pa Dynasty assumed the royal throne of Tibet in 1562. The Kings would rule the secular side of Tibetan life for the next 80 years. The Fourth Dalai Lama, Yonten Gyatso (1589-1616), was a Mongolian prince and the grandson of Altan Khan.

        During the 1630s, China was embroiled in power struggles between the Mongols, Han Chinese of the fading Ming Dynasty, and the Manchu people of north-eastern China (Manchuria). The Manchus would eventually defeat the Han in 1644, and establish China’s final imperial dynasty, the Qing (1644-1912). Tibet got drawn into this turmoil when the Mongol warlord Ligdan Khan, a Kagyu Tibetan Buddhist, decided to invade Tibet and destroy the Yellow Hats in 1634.

        Ligdan Khan died on the way, but his follower Tsogt Taij took up the cause. The great general Gushi Khan, of the Oirad
        Mongols, fought against Tsogt Taij and defeated him in 1637. The Khan killed the Gtsang-pa Prince of Tsang, as well. With support from Gushi Khan, the Fifth
        Dalai Lama, Lobsang Gyatso, was able to seize both spiritual and temporal power over all of Tibet in 1642. The Potala Palace in Lhasa was constructed as a symbol of this new synthesis of power. The Dalai Lama made a state visit to the Qing Dynasty’s second Emperor, Shunzhi, in 1653. The two
        leaders greeted one another as equals; the Dalai Lama did not kowtow.

        Each man bestowed honors and titles upon the other, and the Dalai Lama was recognized as the spiritual authority of the Qing Empire. According to Tibet, the “priest/patron” relationship established at this time between the Dalai Lama and Qing China continued throughout the Qing Era, but it had no
        bearing on Tibet’s status as an independent nation. China, naturally, disagrees. Lobsang Gyatso died in 1682, but his Prime Minister concealed the Dalai Lama’s passing until 1696 so that the Potala Palace could be finished and the power of the Dalai Lama’s office consolidated. etc. etc.

  • Gator

    Chip Wood: Edward Snowden is a whistleblower, but you dub him a criminal. I wonder what you wuold call outing a CIA operative, all in the name of embarassing her husband, who let the American people know that the invasion of Iraq, because of WMD’s (that never existed) was a lie. Causing countless American casualties, all because you wanted to be known as the Wartime President. I call them, Karl Rove, W, Donald Rumsfeld and the GOP gang of White House cronies, who perpetrated the fraud TRAITORS in the 1st degree, subject to life imprisoment.

  • SunEast 孫東

    Edward Snowden has not applied asylum in Singapore because there is a extradition treaty with US (June 10, 1969) and they enforce their laws stricter than any Asian countries and perhaps anywhere else in the world. However, here’s some information on the country at Dave’s request:

    Singapore’s continuous growth is extraordinary indeed! Singapore is the premier financial destination in the world… as well as one of the wealthiest. Today there are more millionaires per capita in Singapore than anywhere else; one in six Singaporeans has a net worth in excess of one million. And for the average Joe, median household income ranks among the top worldwide.

    Not to mention, standard of living in Singapore is very high– schools, medical
    care, goods and services– all among the best on the planet. Even more
    incredibly, they built this without a single drop of oil reserves. Singapore
    isn’t Kuwait. It’s a small island with effectively no natural resources to
    speak of.

    While much of the developed world languishes under the massive burden of
    staggering debt and painful unemployment, Singapore has ZERO net debt. And the unemployment rate is below 2%.

    So how did this all happen? One key
    principle-economic freedom. In Singapore, business is treated incredibly well.
    Bureaucratic, regulatory nonsense is kept to a minimum. Corruption is
    nonexistent. It’s easy

    to set up a business and start competing. Plus taxes are ultra-low and highly
    competitive.

    Right now a small business that makes a $100,000 USD annual profit pays an
    effective tax rate of just 1.2%. A $1 million annual profit would have an effective tax rate of less than 12%.

    Bigger businesses can negotiate directly with the government for preferred tax
    rates, often 10% or less.

    Capital is also treated incredibly well. The banks are well capitalized, the
    currency has long been one of the best performing in the world, and Singapore
    has become a major crossroads of cross-border trade and investment opportunity.

    Last, Singapore treats productive, talented people incredibly well, including
    foreigners. It’s possible to obtain residency by starting a business here or
    getting hired. And, like corporate, personal tax rates are low.

    Income tax on a $250,000 (USD) salary has an effective rate of just 12.4%. And there are no capital gains or dividend taxes.

    Despite having such low tax rates, the government is awash with cash and runs a huge budget surplus. They’ve also managed to sock away a tremendous

    amount of money in sovereign wealth funds. The lesson is clear. Bankrupt western government are trying to increase control over their respective economies– regulating, inflating, and taxing their way to a bigger slice of a rapidly shrinking economic pie.
    Singapore, on the other hand, has focused on helping make the pie bigger. And
    it’s amazing how rapidly it can grow when governments step out of the way and
    allow people to keep what they earn.
    Their International education scale is # 2 US is #17

    • TheOriginalDaveH

      Thanks, SunEast.

      • SunEast 孫東

        My pleasure DaveH

  • Libertarian Soldier

    If this was a republican administration, there’d be calls for impeachment! Plain and simple.

    When I heard that the Bush Administration was getting phone records from World Com I wanted him impeached! Then, as it was explained that this was based on following people believed to be involved in terrorist activity and their phone calls to the US, i made my peace with it. It still irked me. I didn’t like it but it seemed fair since they were qualified leads that had real bad guys on at least one end of the call records.

    To that point, I had supported Cheney but turned sour when I found out about the manipulation when all Cheney had to do was take it to Congress or the Courts to see whether it was Constitutional. Alas, Bush pushed it through for approval and again, I made my peace with it.

    When obama was campaigning in 2008, I wondered what it might do to possible terror defense when obama said he’d strike Bush’s metadata executive actions, the Patriot Act down, “…with the stroke of a pen.” I thought he’d done that.

    As the Snowden issue came to light, I was terribly surprised to find that not only had obama not kept his campaign promise (not that he didn’t keep a promise but didn’t keep this one since it seemed so fundamental to him) but had expanded it to no longer look at foreign terror suspects but to begin looking at citizens with no cause, whatsoever. Between profiling current and ex-military as potential homegrown terrorists in 4/2009 and soliciting and commissioning the 8/2010 strategy to “put down a Tea Party Movement”, Janet Napalitano’s profiling of 30 to 60 year old men, likely educated, possibly ex military or weapons trained and concerned about the Constitution as potentially homegrown terrorists and this have me convinced that we cannot trust this or any other administration with our personal data, and now, certainly not our personal and health related data.

    Factually, I do not believe Snowden did any harm to anybody except the obama agenda or that he’s placed anybody int harms way.

    Did he do it the wrong way, probably but I do believe that it was necessary to see the farce that obama has portrayed as far as liberties of the people. Soon, somebody else will tell us all that this metadata was used to steal the election.

    Anybody else wondered how an unhappy country lamenting obama’s failed administrations domestically and in foreign affairs was reelected?

    • TheOriginalDaveH

      It has little to do with terrorism, Soldier, and everything to do with our subjugation — by both parties.

      • Libertarian Soldier

        I don’t trust any party, right now. The Libertarians are watering down and decision of once great people like Rand Paul are betraying us by operating from fear instead of good sense (immigration deform).

        • TheOriginalDaveH

          Infiltration is always a possibility, Soldier. That’s why education is key. If we know what to look for, we can do our best to prevent the infiltrators from gaining ground.

          Voting Libertarian is no guarantee, Soldier, but if you read the various party platforms, you will see that no others start from as pure a base of Freedom Loving Principles.
          http://www.lp.org/platform

  • SunEast 孫東

    On July 18th,
    Dr. Joseph Bonneau, a software engineer at Google, received the National Security Agency’s award for the best scientific cybersecurity paper. According to its stated mission, the competition was created to help broaden the scientific foundations of cybersecurity needed in the development of systems that are resilient to cyber attacks. But Bonneau was deeply conflicted about receiving the award, noting on his blog that even though he was flattered to receive the award he didn’t condone the mass surveillance programs run by the NSA: “Simply put, I don’t think a free society is compatible with an organisation like the NSA in its current form.”

    Bonneau elaborated on his feelings in a Twitter discussion as well as in an
    interview with Animal during which he said: “I’d rather have it [the NSA] abolished than persist in its current form. I think there’s a question about whether it’s possible to reform the NSA into something that’s more reasonable.”

    Engineers and researchers like Bonneau have a unique and important role to play in fighting back against NSA oversteps. As Michael Hirsh noted in the Atlantic last month, “The government’s massive data collection and surveillance system was largely built not by professional spies or Washington bureaucrats but by Silicon Valley and private defense contractors.” As Hirsh explained, tech companies have contributed enormously to wiring up Big Brother — companies like Palantir Technologies, Eagle Alliance (of Computer Sciences Corp. and Northrup Grumman) and Booz Allen Hamilton. The only way the government gets to spy on everyone is when people who are intelligent and innovative enough to build scalable surveillance technologies decide to help them.

    Hopefully Bonneau’s example will inspire more cryptographers and security engineers to speak out against unlawful and unconstitutional surveillance, adopting the moral high ground in a battle against fear-driven surveillance that needs more outspoken leaders from the tech community.We may never know all the people who chose to help build the National Security Agency’s unlawful spying apparatus. And we may never know all the ethical people who turned down contracts for the NSA because they did not want to support mass surveillance without warrants. But we can and should laud individual engineers like Bonneau, who used his talents to promote effective network security and his platform to take a public stance against the NSA’s unchecked surveillance program.

    This article is by
    Raine Reitman

  • SunEast 孫東

    Here’s an article may be of interest by: Scotty Michele Brown

    80 Years of Domestic and International Spying

    With all of the commotion stirred up lately by whistle blower Edward Snowden, this is a good time to review documents released by the US government concerning programs used to spy on the public. While Mr. Snowden did reveal the PRISM program, the US has had programs and facilities for decades that are used to collect private information. As times passes, the programs grow and become ever more invasive. Because of the lack of repercussions, the government is even more emboldened to peer into our secrets and store them for future use against us.

    The first document I looked at is entitled “Legal Standards for the Intelligence Community in Conducting Electronic Surveillance.” This is a report submitted to Congress in February, 2000. The opening paragraph states ” Electronic surveillance is conducted by elements of the Intelligence Community for foreign intelligence and foreign counterintelligence purposes. Because of its potential intrusiveness and the implications for the privacy of United States persons, such surveillance is subject to strict regulation by statute, and Executive Order, and close scrutiny. The applicable legal standards for the collection, retention, or dissemination of information concerning U.S. persons reflect a careful balancing between the needs of the government for such intelligence and the protection of the rights of U.S. persons, consistent with the reasonableness standard of the Fourth Amendment, as determined by factual circumstance.” Well now, that makes me feel better. The reader should keep in mind that the fourth amendment protects us from UNREASONABLE searches. The surveillance being strictly regulated by statute, Executive Order, and close scrutiny makes me feel great too. The document goes on to discuss the statutes and regulations governing information collected , and that Intelligence Agencies may request assistance from foreign governments in the collection of that information.

    ESCHELON is a project and system that originates in 1971. This system is operated by five nations: Australia, the United States, the United Kingdom, Canada, and New Zealand. These countries work together in accordance with an agreement between the US and the UK in 1947. ECHELON sifts through the majority of information passed through the internet and phone lines. Once information is gathered, it is sent to processing centers in Denver, Colorado(US), Menwith Hill, England, Australia, and Germany. There is a computer system that information is filtered through called DICTIONARY that searches for keywords. While the United States has refused to comment on the program, two reports have been released which were commissioned by the European Parliament about it.

    The first of these reports, entitled “An Appraisal of Technologies of Political Control,” stated that ESCHELON is designed for primarily non-military targets, and gleans information from virtually every country. It is divided into seven sections. Here are direct quotes from the report about the section topics.

    (i) The role and function of the technology of political control;

    (ii) Recent trends and innovations (including the implications of globalization, militarization of police equipment, convergence of control systems deployed worldwide and the implications of increasing technology and decision drift);

    (iii) Developments in surveillance technology (including the emergence of new forms of local, national and international communications interceptions networks and the creation of human recognition and tracking devices);

    (iv) Innovations in crowd control weapons (including the evolution of a 2nd. generation of so called ‘less-lethal weapons’ from nuclear labs in the USA).

    (v) The emergence of prisoner control as a privatized industry, whilst state prisons face increasing pressure to substitute technology for staff in cost cutting exercises and the social and political implications of replacing policies of rehabilitation with strategies of human warehousing.

    (v) The use of science and technology to devise new efficient mark-free interrogation and torture technologies and their proliferation from the US & Europe.

    (vi) The implications of vertical and horizontal proliferation of this technology and the need for an adequate political response by the EU, to ensure it neither threatens civil liberties in Europe, nor reaches the hands of tyrants.

    The second report, “Interception Capabilities 2000″ reveals that Comint organizations have intercepted communication internationally for more than 80 years. Comint is also known as ECHELON. The program intercepts satellite communications, long distance communications from space, undersea communications using submarines, and the internet. Over 120 satellites are used to collect intelligence. It has been widely known that technology companies are required to install “back doors” for the intelligence community. The report affirms this, saying “This report identifies a previously unknown international organization – “ILETS” – which has, without parliamentary or public discussion or awareness, put in place contentious plans to require manufacturers and operators of new communications systems to build in monitoring capacity for use by national security or law enforcement organizations (section 5).

    The implications of this information should frighten every reader to their core. Before Edward Snowden revealed PRISM, there were already massive programs in place violating humanity. We are being invaded, spied upon, categorized, herded, tortured, and imprisoned. All the while the average citizen is kept occupied by sensational stories and distractions of the media. I will continue to write about these topics. It is up to you, the reader to spread the information. Until next time…

    The Global Elites principle: Who controls the money supply controls the world; Who controls the food supply controls the people; Who controls the scientists controls the population… SE