Do The Multitude Of Crises Mean That The Endgame Is Near?

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The elites love to play us for fools.

European Central Bank President Mario Draghi said the proposal to steal 10 percent or more of the wealth of Cypriot savers in order to bail out the European Union banksters is not a blueprint for what would happen in future bailouts. “Cyprus is no template,” he said, according to the BBC.

After much hue and cry from the island’s masses and almost two weeks of bank holiday, the Cypriot elected class and the EU agreed to “let” Cypriots keep their savings up to 100,000 euros and steal only as much as 60 percent from savers who have more. This decision came, no doubt, after enough time had passed to let the Russian oligarchs remove their money from Cyprus’ jurisdiction — which would explain the sudden silence of Russian President Vladimir Putin after his initial objections to the plan.

Meanwhile, New Zealand’s government is talking about a “deal” for that country’s savers similar to the one originally proposed in Cyprus, which would have seen the bank deposits of all that island nation’s savers looted by as much as 13 percent to prop up failing banks. Closer to home, the Canadian government’s latest budget calls for a “bail-in” regime for systemically important banks. This regime will allow customer accounts to be looted in the “unlikely event” one of the banks “depletes its capital.”

And so we see that the elites who control the world’s wealth are indeed working from one playbook. But perhaps Draghi is just being coy, for we also see that this or a similar plan has been put in place for the U.K. and the U.S.

A look into a joint document produced by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) and the Bank of England (BOE) shows a plan to “assign losses to shareholders and unsecured creditors” as a resolution strategy for failing banks. It also calls for “exchanging or converting a sufficient amount of the unsecured debt from the original creditors [depositors] of the failed company into equity. In the U.S., the new equity would become capital in one or more newly formed operating entities. In the U.K., the same approach could be used, or the equity could be used to recapitalize the failing financial company itself — thus, the highest layer of surviving bailed-in creditors would become the owners of the resolved firm. In either country, the new equity holders would take on the corresponding risk of being shareholders in a financial institution.”

The report, “Resolving Globally Active, Systemically Important, Financial Intuitions,” was published in December 2012. It gives no exception for FDIC-guaranteed deposits.

The FDIC “guarantees” deposits up to $250,000. But the initial proposal for Cyprus gave a “haircut” to all accounts, including those guaranteed by government up to 100,000 euros, which indicates government guarantees are worth less than the paper they’re written on — or the strips of paper that represent money.

Of course, the FDIC cannot possibly cover all the current bank deposits should a collapse occur. So this new plan provides cover for the FDIC in the event of massive failure. The savings that savers thought were “safe” in their bank accounts will be seized and replaced by stock in the new bank that replaces the failed one, though only the “highest level” creditors will receive it.

Fractional reserve banking is a confidence game built on sand. Since banks lend out far more than they keep in reserve, the game collapses when confidence is lost. The EU/Cyprus debacle should have removed any confidence that money stored in banks is safe.

The elites are also eyeing pensions, individual retirement accounts and 401(k)s as a means of staving off collapse. There is currently almost $20 trillion in these American retirement funds, and stealing it in exchange for more government funny money would erase the current $16.7 trillion U.S. debt.

Keeping your money in banks and retirement funds accessible by the government and bankster thieves is a fool’s errand. The wonder is why more people have not recognized this — even through the fog of March Madness and “American Idol” — and bank runs in Europe and the U.S. haven’t begun.

The bankster elites know the current system is on borrowed time, even if the masses do not. Countries are now making moves away from the dollar as the world’s currency. Moammar Gadhafi was eliminated in part for this reason. Australia and China recently agreed to trade outside the dollar. China and Russia now trade oil outside the dollar. The BRIC nations (Brazil, Russia, India and China) have been discussing this move as well.

Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke’s money printing has debased the dollar but propped up the stock market, giving a false illusion of a growing economy. As Peter Schiff points out here, those giving Bernanke and/or President Barack Obama credit for sparking a rally are missing (or ignoring) that current market performance is based solely on the Fed’s activities.

Since 2008, the Fed has injected fresh cash into the economy with four distinct shots of quantitative easing and has added two kickers of Operation Twist. In recent months, the Fed has dispensed with the pretense of designing, announcing, and serving new rounds of stimulus and is now continuously monetizing over $85 billion per month of Treasury and mortgage-backed debt. The new cash needs a place to go, and stocks, which now often provide higher yields than long term Treasury bonds, and which offer much better protections against inflation, provide the best outlet.

But the four year rally has been punctuated by several sharp and brief drops. It is no coincidence that these episodes occurred during periods in which the delivery of fresh stimulus was in doubt. If the Fed were ever to follow through on its promise to exit the bond market, we believe the current rally would come to an immediate halt. This provides yet another reason to believe that stimulus is now permanent.

The Fed’s intervention has taken another form as well. It is and has been manipulating the gold price. It is doing so in a last-ditch effort to prop up the value of the dollar and prevent the dumping of the dollar by big holders like China, Japan and others, which would spark hyperinflation. In 2000, it took only $280 to buy one ounce of gold. But 12 years of wars, massive government and money printing debased the dollar to where it eventually took $1,900 to buy one ounce of gold.

Recognizing the danger this debasement represented, the Washington propaganda machine put out the word that gold was in a bubble. The Fed-owned “too big to fails” were ordered to short the precious metals market. This drove down the price to about $1,700, where it stayed until the Fed’s latest action at the beginning of April. It was then that the Fed sent out the word that hedge funds and other large investors were going to unload their gold positions and that people should sell their positions before this occurred. This illegal Fed action drove the price down even further; it’s now below $1,600 per ounce.

For those who recognize gold as a store of value, this presents an opportunity. It is one being taken advantage of by Russia, China and the 1.3 billion people who live in India — and by American gold bugs.

The budget deficit and growing debt can only be covered by money printing for so long. There is obviously no stomach in Washington for reining in spending. The U.S. government and many of the governments around the world are insolvent. Yet Obama continues to press for more spending and more wealth redistribution. His Administration is even encouraging mortgage lenders to loosen credit so as to lend to risky borrowers in an effort to create yet another housing bubble and another illusion that the economy is recovering. Congressional Republicans have offered no serious spending cut proposal either, and are content to play political blame-games with the Democrats.

When governments begin selling off their dollar holdings in quantity, all bets are off. Economist John Williams of Shadowstats believes that could happen as soon as May.

Meanwhile, Americans are being distracted by threats against Iran, threats from North Korea, created crises, assaults on liberties and the 2nd Amendment, and issues not under Federal government purview, like whether gays can marry. These distractions all serve to conceal the warning signs from the people.

Bob Livingston

founder of Personal Liberty Digest™, is an ultra-conservative American author and editor of The Bob Livingston Letter™, in circulation since 1969. Bob has devoted much of his life to research and the quest for truth on a variety of subjects. Bob specializes in health issues such as nutritional supplements and alternatives to drugs, as well as issues of privacy (both personal and financial), asset protection and the preservation of freedom.

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  • GALT

    Seems that all those “distractions”, are the subjects talked about “every day”
    here at PLD……..

    Of course, that the end is really, really, really, really, REALLY NIGH, and we really, really, really, really , REALLY MEAN IT THIS TIME…..or as early as “May”, or
    ( leave sufficient time to market whatever will save you, make you fantastically wealthy, etc.) whenever………..has also become common faire…..

    Problem is……how many of those deadlines have come and gone?

    The REALITY is ( and has been ) this is the only game in town and we are
    in the drivers seat…….and have been all along…….so your future, can be
    predicted with the same degree of difficulty that it would take to forecast
    the topics that will be discussed here……..S.S. D.D.

    • Ringgo1

      A bit incoherent. Would you please be more specific? Thanks.

      • John Cherish

        It the current state of the world and how it functions, economics, banks, political office, and governments we are currently locked in there is no escape. He says it is up to us to make the best of the situation that we control it.. But I differ in one comment of his, We the people are not in the drivers seat,The elites, the bankers, and politicians who are mouth pieces for them are. It is they who control the world and everything else we either put up or shut up or we will be eliminated. It is not about you as a citizen but about them having absolute power over your life It is the deal made with the devil and now he wants to show he is really in control. The people who are the workers and producers on this planet are nothing more than slaves and servants to the elites, you do what you are told or you won’t be here. Your purpose to live is only to service them and their whims. This is the real world and is the ultimate plan of Satan to have you worship him to survive. If you want Justice in this world then you want GOD’s government. How many will pay the price for that?

      • GALT

        Your comment regarding “the incoherence” you are referring
        to or might be referring to, is completely incoherent…………

        Could you be a bit more specific, regarding the “bit of incoherence”
        you are having trouble with…….by asking question (s) that are
        a little more precise regarding the information you are seeking?

        I shall be happy to respond to whatever degree of specificity
        is required by your questions.

  • Karolyn

    It must be awfully depressing to have a job that requires one to predict disaster and try to find more facts supporting that position.

  • Deerinwater

    Mr. Livingston says, “Yet Obama continues to press for more spending and more wealth redistribution. His Administration is even encouraging mortgage lenders to loosen credit so as to lend to risky borrowers in an effort to create yet another housing bubble and another illusion that the economy is recovering.”

    I ask, ~ “What would you have him to do?” ~ Horde Gold? ~ what would that solve? ~ ~ Confess that ~ We are broke and tell everyone to just go home? The Party is over until someone in the private sector makes so loot?

    Tell the navy, to come in and tie off? Order the air force, to park’em in New Mexico and moth ball ‘em?

    What must be done that can be done?

    • Flashy

      One has to laugh out loud at the “redistribution of wealth” cries. I mean, it borders on ludicrous to even suggest this administration is under taking this. One only has to look from Reagan onward to see the facts. The MOST MASSIVE redistribution of wealth IN THE HISTORY OF MAN has been from 1981 onward when the wealth was taken from the Middle Class and handed to the wealthy elite.

      Of course, the serfs aka extremists…won’t admit the facts, even as they know them to be true. For they are indeed serfs. In the Medieval Era, the wealth was land, and those who had land were the nobles. For the extremists, comfortable only when told what to think, what to fear, what to be angry at, capital has replaced land, kings replaced by Big Business and entrenched wealthy elite. they mouth the words of freedom and free elections, they falsely claim to be working as patriots for democracy and fundemental rights, freedom of movement, freedom to decide what work and career to choose…. but they demand we cede those rights, under duress, to feed their rulers who do no work.

      They’ll insist business leader take risk, but turn a blind eye when it’s pointed out those risks can be taken only because they are a privilege of a wealthy elite…privileges outside the means of the Middle Class…now stripped of it’s wealth in the redistribution occurring the past 30 years.

      One percent own 95 percent of the wealth, leaving no reason why the elite…the controllers of the extremist… should do more than give only meager sustenance to the masses of the Middle Class and poor.

      But the extremists, the far right, demand we bow down to their two gods..their rulers and their god…none of which has been accepted as rulers by the majority…yet, in the name of “patriotism”, the extremists demand it as a sow of “loyalty’.

      think about that.

      • Jimmy the Greek

        I’ll drink to that ! Capitalism and Communism , two sides of the same coin ! each system is the same , I our system the wealthy own the goverment , under communism the wealthy elite are the goverment !

      • Right Brain Thinker

        Excellent comment!

        Good enough to be a sermon in the Church of Reality.

      • John Cherish

        The most redistribution of the wealth occurred and was a direct result of Woodrow Wilson’s actions to create the Federal Reserve that is when the bankers seized control of the country which caused the Great depression and the greatest seizure ever of personal wealth was when FDR demanded everyone turn in their gold for worthless paper. From that point on there have been boom and bust cycles caused by mismanagement of the nations currency by the Federal government. This time however it is going to blow up all the Federal Reserve notes will become worthless and a new currency will replace them as yet to seen what that will be. Probably the currency of the one world government

      • momo

        Once again flashman tries to explain things along the right left paradigm. Oh, that evil Reagan started it all with his massive wealth redistribution, screwing the middle class while the elitist rich grew richer. And now the saintly Obama is trying to re-balance that robbery with his own. You just don’t get it do you flash, neither party gives a damn about the middle class! The only thing they care about is their power, and the power and riches of the wealthy who keep them in their positions. You talk about ceding rights, and yet i didn’t hear a peep out of you when Obama wanted to do away with the 6th amendment as Bush did with the 4th. Only an impassioned speech by Rand Paul on the Senate floor saved it. And yet again when HR 347 passed and Obama signed it, not one word from you. As for insisting businessmen take risks, that’s what capitalism is all about, taking risks, and they’re not just the baliwick of the wealthly. The small businessman is the backbone of the US economy. And if risk taking is what business is all about, why is this administration and its predecessor bailing out businesses and banks? Why is the government privitizing profits, and yet socializing debt? Too big to fail? What a crock! Those banksters should be serving prison sentences, and yet this DOJ does nothing. Once again the taxpayer gets a good screwing. And yet you sit there and cheerlead for these fools. Flashy, you’re the biggest fool on this board.

        • Flashy

          I get it Momo…i voted against the incumbent in either the primary or general election. And i will do such again the next election.

          But as the system is now, one has to support that which edges us towards a better future, one can only offer solutions and hope it’s not negated or diluted as it goes through the Congressional process gutting any meaningful reform. One doesn’t move forward by insisting we destroy this nation…which is all the TP/American taliban/extremists demand.

          As a simple example. One only has to realize that when 90% of the American public thinks mandatory background checks on all sales and transfers of gun is a good idea, and that can’t get through the Congress…it doesn’t take a brain surgeon to realize money and a few elite rule the roost. heck, …. who benefits from out of control gun violence in this nation? Who benefits by hyping fear and anger to keep guns in the hands of criminals and insane and irresponsible? Who benefits by keeping those who sell guns protected from lawsuits for selling to a person who later uses the gun for violence and crime?

          • momo

            “it doesn’t take a brain surgeon to realize money and a few elite rule the roost.”

            Well flashy actually says something I agree with.

            “Who benefits by keeping those who sell guns protected from lawsuits for selling to a person who later uses the gun for violence and crime?”
            With that kind of logic why don’t car companies get sued for people getting into accidents?

          • vicki

            So flashy. How does my possessing a firearm infringe on ANY of your rights?

    • Johnny

      Stop spending like a drunken whore and show a little fiscal responsibility for starters

    • Joe Public

      If 10 million people donate 100 hours labor per year to help get us out of this mess. That would replace 625,000 part time jobs. Which in turn would allow us to fire 625,000 useless federal workers.

  • Flashy

    ” “assign losses to shareholders and unsecured creditors””

    Ummm..isn’t this what is supposed to occur when a company/institution makes bad decisions? Or is the article suggesting all banks are “to big to fail”?

    When a Board makes bad decisions, and the company goes under, is the article suggesting the losses be taken over by anyone but the shareholders and unsecured creditors?

    In numerous earlier articles, time and again, PLD has hammered on the bank bailout and not allowing the marketplace to weed out the failures. Now that FDIC has placed THAT VERY CONCEPT in writing, it’s a sign of an upcoming collapse and how dare the marketplace function without government support to salvage the company/bank?

    • Blank Reg

      And are YOU suggesting that all GOVERNMENTS are “too big to fail”? If THEY make really bad decisions, like, say, spend $1.5 trillion annually that they have no hope of ever collecting in increased taxes, shouldn’t that government be allowed to go bust?

      • Flashy

        I pointed out that in the past, PLD has screamed about support for the banking system and that it will lead to a collapse. Today, NOT propping up the system will lead to collapse. Seems it depends on what the need of PLD is as to their position on any issue.

        As for government deficit spending…austerity when battling the worst financial crisis in the past 80 years doesn’t work. Look at Europe today, japan in the 90’s and 00’s. The US in the mid 30’s when spending was reduced and the Depression reengaged. Look at the job numbers and economic figures of this month as the Sequester begins to hit and business realizes what is ahead down the road.

        No one has said we cannot handle the deficits. no one with any common sense and rational thought.

        but, typical for the lunatic extremists of the TP and American Taliban, you go for the simplistic jingoisms and fall into line in attacking this nation instead of providing solutions which work.

        • John Cherish

          The current Fiat currency will not work and even if I hate to admit it Obama is heading us on a path that will collapse this fiat currency. Essentially this needs to happen. This is going to hurt a lot of the people in the middle class and in fact many will die because of this, But you can bet the top 1% wealthy elites and the Politicians won’t be hurt by this. In a way he is hastening its demise by the deficits he is running. The US will default on all of its promises like Social Security and Medicare and payments to creditor nations and restart with a clean slate but unfortunately the price is the loss of all our Freedoms The elites had this in store for us all along its about power and control

          • momo

            You’re correct John Cherish, no fiat currency in history has ever survivied. At the rate of government spending, and other countries deciding to trade in their own currencies rather than the dollar, the collaspe will happen sooner rather than later.

          • John Cherish

            Yes Australia has essentially signed on to BRICS to replace the dollar as the reserve currency, If more countries do the end is coming sooner than people realize. The end of the petro-dollar will cause massive hyperinflation in the US and this will cause major riots and disruptions of the economy the US may even have to go to war to prevent this ( BRICS is Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa ) keep an eye on this as it develops as it spells the end of the Dollar being the world reserve currency

        • Bill Henry

          I don’t demand anything from you or any of your friends, except that you leave my constitutional rights alone. The removal of the rights of any American should concern you, if you are indeed an American. If what you say is true, how do you propose to solve the problem? Fighting for your cause makes you as much of an extremist as anyone in this forum, so to bicker amongst ourselves only serves the cause of those who wish to destroy us. If the rich control all the capital and means for earning a livelihood, then what does it matter to them what happens to you and me? Our government is corrupted, our economy is debased, and we are reduced to a patch work of squabbling ninnies. I for one could not afford to pack up and move my family to a place where they and I could live our lives in peace. I have served this country even at the expense of my own health, and I will not be told to regret that, nor will I apologize for it, but to surrender the life left to me by the people who have died for it is not something that I willingly give up to anyone, be it my government or those who have designs on it. If you believe that this government has you or anyone else’s welfare in mind, then go on and believe that. I have lived the majority of my life, but I will leave a family which has not. I only desire to leave them to “life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness”, whatever that may mean to them, even if it means surrendering the few years I have left to fighting for that. If you call that extreme then I guess that is what it means to you. What I can see is a people who have lost sight and value of their personal liberties in exchange for their personal welfare, and that by any definition is “greed” and “selfishness”, terms that it seems the left is fond of using for anyone who works hard to make a good living. I have done my work and made my living and have raised a family that is now in its fourth generation from myself to my great grand children. None of us is rich, just good hard working Americans and their off spring. I have tried to instill in them a love for their liberty and freedom, and I admit that I have failed in some instances as far as their political leanings, but they do seem to grasp the idea that they cannot sit on their duffs and wait for anyone else to take care of them and their children. I will continue to stand my ground on the principles of love of my country, my rights and personal liberty until I occupy my last few cubic feet of land. What is the profit for this government or you for that matter in taking away my Constitutional rights? I have harmed no one in this country. I have no wealth to give, but I have done so to the extent that I can with those who called on me in time of need. Should I sit still for someone to raid my bank account and take what little I may have to leave for my widow and my progeny? Should I sit still and have my privacy invaded by those who seek to take my rights and liberty from me? This government has dipped its brush in a pool of deranged behavior, political speech, extremism and racism and is trying to paint anyone who doesn’t kowtow to it with that same brush by demanding they surrender their rights. I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend with my life, your right to say it. I have done so and will continue to do so even in the face of your disagreements with me. What I will not abide is your platitudinous attempts to make me something or someone that I am not without answering your slurs. I believe I have earned the right to that and to my beliefs. If your fight is with the wealthy of this world, then fight with them, not those of us who wish only to be left alone to pursue our own “happiness”. I am not your enemy nor do I have any wish to be, but I just will not have you or anyone else “tread on me” in pursuit of your goals. I am far from wealthy and seek nothing that I have not been bequeathed or earned, and that would not be considered “wealth” by any stretch of imagination. I have profited from no one’s misfortune nor do I attempt to. I am not so blind as to not see what is happening in this country. I can see the changes that need to be made, but not even for heaven’s sake, will I value my liberty so little as to surrender it willingly to anyone or any cause that is not in defense of that ahead of all else. If you call that extremist then so be it. That is your right, but if you wish to have my assistance in achieving your goal, you will not gain it by taking my personal liberty, nor that of my family. Your fight is not with me or anyone who stands for this country so, please don’t make it so. Address yourself to those who you feel wronged by, which does not include me or anyone I know who agrees with me, so don’t expect to slap our faces without expecting some reply. You have nothing I want or need, nor does Mr. Obama, Mr. Romney or anyone whose wealth you desire. It would gain me little if I gave up my personal liberties for it, which I have no intention of doing, come what may. If that makes me an extremist, a criminal, or as you are wont to call us, an “American Taliban”, I can live with that for I am at peace with myself and have no fear of dying which could be the outcome of my stance. My only regret will be leaving my family with something as distasteful as that which I can envision this country becoming. I have lived all over the world, and in no country where there is a take from some and give to others society, did I see any degree of the utopia you seem to envision. I would find it repugnant to have my life dictated to me and dependent on that. If that is the path to your happiness then follow it, but do not step on my toes getting there and expect me not to kick you. Direct your passions and desires to that which will take you to your goal and happiness while leaving we who don’t share them to ours. If it can be done, then you have to find the answer to how it can be, but please, not at the expense of those who don’t share you’re goal. When I have no account with a bank other than a checking account and the government decides that it needs the money, will my checking account which goes to the support of six people be immune? I don’t think that will be considered. What does the government have in mind when it requires all those who are retired and draw social security, their government service retirements, or any other benefits which they spent their service for, to direct deposit those monies? When will those accounts be declared immune to attempts of government takeover, when the government has been eyeing the retirement accounts of those who have saved all their lives in preparation for retirement? Never I would assume. What would be the outcome for all those who are now on government assistance programs, if the economy fails, and these banks go under? Will their accounts be taken into consideration when the spoils are divided? I dare say, not. Is there enough wealth amongst the wealthy of the world to pay for your goal? If so how do you expect to extract it from them? Do you expect their wealth will go to the welfare of those who want their share? Show me where this has worked and made a classless society. Based on 2011 estimates, estimated global wealth is 231 trillion USD, divided by estimated world population 7,021,836,029, equals 32,897.37884023153 per person. What happens after everyone gets their fair share? Will there be enough left to support the economy of the whole globe without bankrupting every country? That would require everyone to work for a living except those who cannot. Who will govern the utopia? Who would feel inclined to operate the industry that it takes to support an economy? What happened to China? Did their economy thrive under their “utopian” regime? What about Russia, and the USSR? Did theirs thrive under “utopian” dreams? Has any country that you can name for me in the EU thrived under their attempts to create utopia? I will say not. I would contend, based on the evidence that “utopia” is based on exactly what we have here. Freedoms and personal liberties without the bonds of slavery to the elite. I know that you don’t believe that, but that is not a problem that I wish to share with you. I wish you all luck in reaching your dreams, but not at the loss of my liberty. I am a disabled veteran with 20+ years of Naval Service. I at present suffer from 20+ physical maladies according to my doctor. I suffer pain with every step I take, every breathe I take, with every dawn that I see, and if the money I earned by doing this to myself were taken away from me, I would get up every morning and do anything I had to do to support myself and my family who need my support. I find myself in a precarious position when I try to justify my position, but there is no doubt in my mind when it comes to sacrifice for the sake of liberty, mine or yours. I come from a family of two parents and 9 siblings, and I know too well the life of impoverishment, but the thirst for what someone else owned or earned was never a factor in my upbringing or life choices. This country has evidently devolved into something that nowhere resembles that. We are now dealing with a majority of people who don’t belong here legally, don’t know what a job is, and who want to leach off the labors of others. What that proposes to me is a lack of caring for anything except for their own welfare, and the hitch to that is dragging everyone down into the same pit at the expense of their liberty. Do I have the wherewithal to defend my family and myself against that? That is none of your, Mr. Obama, the congress, or the United Nation’s business, but I will say that my determination to do so, is my first priority, and I am not a shirker. Given the preceding I can only come to one conclusion, the utopia you dream of and seek is a phantom. It simply cannot logically exist given the facts and examples, whether you believe it or not, it is apparent to those of us who still value their liberties above themselves. There will always be, under any circumstances, the haves and the have nots, there is no way around it for anyone except through their own efforts and achievements, and that which you seek will end up on the ash pile of history, where all such attempts have ended, but it is not my intention to sway your opinions, that would probably be as impossible as anything resembling utopia is. I wish you pleasant dreams and good fortune.

          Non Sibi Sed Patriae

    • momo

      “Ummm..isn’t this what is supposed to occur when a company/institution makes bad decisions?”
      So how come that didn’t happen to GM?

      • Flashy

        Because the loss of 2/3rds of the auto industry would have sent this nation straight from on the cliff’s edge of a Depression to a full blown Depression. how easy it is for the arm chair quarterbacks to forget the facts….

        • momo

          Arm chair quarterbacks like yourself flasho?

          • Flashy

            Momo…please let me know what change on any stand or statement I have made. i’ve stated I disagree with some of the actions and policies of this administration, I am not a automatic stamp of approval. though most of the stances of this administration i do agree with. it’s because i see them as forwarding this nation and putting us back on our feet.

            I would say the two major criticisms i have is no one has gone to jail over the bank bailout fiasco. From what the recent hearings revealed, when the bailouts occurred (under Bush II’s reign), the SEC regulators and enforcement arms gave assurances of no prosecution is the banks ‘fessed up to the losses they were taking.

            Another is letting go of the pubic option in Health Care. That was a major mistake in my view.

            I’d say a third is not pushing to close Gitmo and succumbing to the wild accusations and claims tossed out by the GOP .. though that was early in his term and no one realized the GOP was hell bent for leather to bring this nation to its knees for political purposes.

            I don’t think his environmental record is as solid as it should be, and in Immigration, i wish he would go after the employers of undocumented workers as well as maintain the high numbers of undocumented workers being deported.

            But armchair? What basis is that coming from?

          • momo

            Flashman, you’re a cheerleader for this administration. Everything Obama does is like gospel for you, how do you figure we’re moving forward if the employment participation rate is the lowest since the Jimmy Carter was in the White House? Even the left wing cheerleaders on MSNBC are questioning that. Claiming that the recent filibuster by Rand Paul over how drones were going to be used by this administration was a stunt shows you think this government is infallible. If this administration is going to use drones to kill americans in US territory, I would think you would want to know that. And if it was so easy for Holder to write a two sentnece letter to say no, why didn’t he do that at the hearings instead of beating around the bush? While I agree that the banbksters should be in jail, that’s never going to happen, they control the puse strings for the politicians. If some politician did go after them, he/she would be out of office rather quickly. As for Gitmo, aren’t the people held there enemy combatants and therefore should be tried by a military court. Obamacare is going to be a disaster, my premiums have already gone up, and they’re predicted to go up 20 to 100 percent next year. I too wish Obama would go after employers of undocumented workers, but his changing of immigration policy for those in school was just an election ploy.

  • Ron r

    Have no fear people,bob just wants to sell gold.

    • Doc Sarvis

      Precisely.

    • John Cherish

      Yes and many of those GOLD deals, they sell you pieces of paper saying they have the GOLD in their vaults where it is safe. “The new Boss same as the Old Boss” If you do buy gold or silver make sure it is not one of these that you actually take possession of the gold or silver. However that becomes a problem when a country collapses into chaos it is not easy to transport and you can not eat it and how will you protect it. You need guns and bullets and bullets themselves could become a currency in such a situation along with other highly needed commodities Like pure water and food.

  • Jimmy the Greek

    Looks like all the yuppies are in for a big shafting , Me i spend my money on motorcycles , guns , and ammo , if you try saving or investing the bankers well just screw you out of it .

    • Ringgo1

      Not an anti-Semetic remark in the post! Bravo!

      • Jimmy the Greek

        Well there was no need , every knows who runs the banking system , lol

        • coal miner1

          Jimmy
          You mean zionist?

  • Warrior

    What fun we’re having with an xtra $tril of deficit spending. Imagine how much more fun we’d be having with another $tril?

  • Unhappy CT Taxpayer

    When do trillion dollar deficits catch up to us? What about monetizing $85 billion a month? The can will continue to be kicked down the road, but at some point, it’s going to get run over.

    Australia signing an agreement with China to bypass the dollar was big news. Did any of the people in the mainstream media pick up on it? Nope!

    Predicting the timing of such calamity is impossible. One should never underestimate how long they can keep this game going.

    • Jimmy the Greek

      They have kept it going since 1914 !

    • John Cherish

      They will keep it going until they are sure they have stripped every last thing of value out of the economy. If you happen to have Gold or silver what happens when the government orders you to turn it in or face a fine it happened once before when FDR did it. How long before Obama orders the same as he thinks of himself as the new NEW DEAL president.

      • GALT

        Not going to happen, and no longer a requirement……as
        we are no longer on the gold standard, there is no reason to
        confiscate it……..it has always been, just another “commodity”,
        and it provided no more stability to the economy than any other
        means of “accounting” would………

        Being on the Gold Standard was a significant cause of the Great Depression………see” Lords of Finance”……and money as coin,
        has been responsible for extended conflict and conquest, ever
        since it first surfaced in 800 BCE….see Debt; The First 5000 Years.

        IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

        • johnd

          Ignorance is strength. If for no other reason it is the majority. Have you ever seen cattle in a corral? Those that just go along and play follow the leader usually have the easiest time. Those that think something isn’t right and try to turn back or act independently are the ones that get whipped or hot shotted. In the end all suffer the same fate.

          • GALT

            Wow, must be some talented cattle…..using whips and prods
            like that?

            I see a lot of ignorance here…..but there is no majority…..

            So did you have a point?

          • johnd

            My point is that the ignorant majority that doesn’t buck the system and just goes along with what’s happening is going to have a much easier time in the transition than those who are trying to fight it.

          • GALT

            Goes without saying…….yet for some reason you felt compelled to say it. Why? ( it only raises more questions because there are many implications regarding that which you have not stated as well as your imagined place among the herd, so tell us what or how you REALLY feel? )

            The preceding is a “translation” of the previous question: What is your point?

          • johnd

            I feel that the society that we live in is totally controlled. Our news, entertainment, education and even religion is configured to point us toward a certain theme in our thinking. What that theme is I’m not smart enough to figure out. It’s causing me much confusion.
            I also have no idea whose in charge of the “conspiracy”: God, devil, aliens or just very smart men or is it just a natural occurrence of nature? It just seems there is way to much order to the chaos.
            My place among the herd is in the middle a little toward the back. I want to see what is going to happen to the lead before I follow and yet if your in the very back you stand out and may be subject to the prod. I’m not optimistic about our future.
            And you? Your well read/educated and good at tearing holes in the commentaries of others and yet I’m not sure how you stand.
            It seems you think everything is fine as it is and we should quit complaining. Galt was the hero in the Ayn Rand book and yet I get the feeling you’re not sold on capitalism. I don’t mean to get personal but I live in a rural community and sometimes new ideas take a while to sink in so I’m a little curious about the person that asks me questions.

          • GALT

            Ayn Rand’s protagonist and anti hero was John Galt, who
            stopped “the engine of the world”…….

            Atlas Shrugged does not translate well into this century and her reality when writing it was essentially the dark ages……but she never confused capitalism as being something other than
            “the means of production”……which requires absolutely producing “something”……also as a female she was extremely powerful intellectually……..she never did find her hero in real life.

            I don’t think everything is fine…….but for this thread and subject the “end is nigh” is total BS…….so in that sense, the world economy is not going to collapse, in May or anytime soon…..owning gold is meaningless…..and government deficits and debt in this regard are also irrelevant.

            I ask questions of everyone, simply to attempt to clarify their position or to lead them to the realization that the logic of their position ( if there is any logic ) ends in self contradiction.

            I also spend a great deal of time directing people to sources of information by way of books that need to be read….because
            I am NOT the origin of the “information”, but I am the “original source” for what it “all means”…….but simply “telling” people
            is rarely productive………so I have other questions which are intended to guide people toward this understanding.

            Unfortunately, for much of what I offer here, very few ask questions……..those that do, never manage to ask anything
            of relevance, so their questions are NOT really questions….
            and no one has yet managed to answer or comprehend,
            the actual questions, which require self directed thought
            and logical reasoning to complete the exercise of what has
            been proposed.

            The effort hardly matches the results, but there is nothing to
            be done for it……since there are no short cuts and every once in awhile, a tidbit gets through…..and this will probably not change until I have other means to accomplish this task in a more efficient manner.

            Your caution is to be commended in any case, with me or
            anyone else…….and despite your claim to a rural outlook, your approach is far more reasonable than most here…..for the
            hardest truth of all for most humans is the understanding
            that “logical reasoning” is a skill that must be learned and
            exercised……..we are not born with it, nor do will live by
            it, nor is it what drives our behavior……..and we have spent
            out entire history, in denial of this TRUTH.

            We stumbled into civilization, but we have not evolved or
            adapted to it……..and until this is understood and accepted,
            our future prospects are minimal at best.

          • johnd

            I understand where you are coming from much better now. There are still many things I’m unclear on but that’s ok because I’ve lived with my wife for over 40 years and I still wonder about her.
            I don’t disagree with your interpretation of ” logical reasoning” but I’m not sure it can be learned after a certain age. It starts very early in life from those that first teach us. So if the reasoning is not sound from the beginning, many things would have to be unlearned for the logic to kick in.
            When you guide someone to your source for information are you sometimes astounded that they don’t take from it the same conclusions that you do? The Bible is an example. Many people want to direct me to this book as a source. I can not understand the conclusions they come up with. But maybe it’s me that’s being narrow minded.
            What do you mean that we stumbled into this civilization? As I see it we have created it as we have evolved. What actually is it that we have to understand and accept?

          • GALT

            Logic as developed by Aristotle, consists of 6 major rules and 2 minor ones, it is not particularly difficult to learn, but it suffers from the duplicity of language and possible interpretation of “meaning”, which for some strange reason has become less disciplined over time with regard to definition, so that instead of producing greater clarity….as one would expect, it has produced greater ambiguity, so much so, the some meanings are now precisely the opposite of their original usage and intent, or have strayed so far from their etymological root, that they have become pointless. The word ”decimate”, for example is never used in anyway that makes any sense…….either to its origin or the similarity indicated by its root, deci. It has no relevant meaning and yet it is used constantly to indicate something other than what it means.

            To my knowledge, logic is not formerly taught in primary or secondary education, although one might take it as an elective in college, but it does appear informerly in math words problems and proofs……but for the most part, it is absent in the general population…..while the ambiguity and undisciplined nature of language has infected all, like the plague…….and much of the opinion expressed here, relies completely on the usage of words alone, such as liberal, communist, progressive, which are intended as “argument” simply by their usage…….so that one is confronted with what amounts to rhetoric which is simply a continuous stream of logical fallacies, stated in ignorance and relying on equal ignorance for agreement.

            What do you mean that we stumbled into this civilization? As I see it we have created it as we have evolved. What actually is it that we have to understand and accept?

            Our species has been around for a minimum of 195,000 years, and we had completed our biological evolution 50, 000 years ago, so we are perfectly suited to that environment…….and our behavior is perfectly tuned for those conditions. Civilization made possible by the advent of agriculture, altered those conditions……….but it did not alter our biological behavior, or our motivations………which remained dominant even though, the environment no longer required us to continue to behave, as we had previously. Like every other species, we existed in groups whose primary purpose, was common cause to survive and reproduce, and the size of these groups was limited by available resources and natural pressures, which prevented groups from becoming to large. Our brains evolved, tuned to these conditions, so they do not operate on the basis of logic, which is linear…..but as a massive parrallel processor connected to sensual input for the singular purpose of “threat recognition” to meet the first biological directive of survival, in order to achieve the second, reproduction.

            This requirement forces certain behavior to emerge, because one is forced to act in a precautionary manner, whenever a threat is potentially indicated……..and whether on not the actual threat exists….a rustling in the brush may be the wind, a small creature or a large predator lurking, but one can not ignore the threat. Reproduction on the other hand requires different strategies and these involve status, heirarchy, and degrees of both deception and self deception to achieve this end.

            When civilization emerged, it changed both conditions for survival and removed the limitations on group size…….our brains however did not evolve or change……..we still operate on the basis of threat recognition, to survive and reproduce, we simply redirected these skills against ourselves, to dominate others, rise in heirarchical status, to insure both reproductive success for ourselves and our off spring. This has not changed, and while we do have a pre-frontal cortex for abstract reasoning, we are still driven by our biological drives…..just as we were 50, 000 years ago, and we have used our abstract ability, to invent mythologies to deny this reality and connection….to set ourselves above other species by declaration, rather than embracing our origins and applying our intelligence, to do by logical reasoning what we can not do by denial………stop acting like the animals we claim we are superior to.

            There are other indications of our failures to this point, but this is the primary reason for all of them……..and while past failures were recoverable….when cultures failed……we no longer have that luxury, so this understanding is critical if we are to have a future, for it must be planned intelligently…….with problems anticipated for every action.

            In any case that is enough for now and a lot to think about.

          • johnd

            You are right ” a lot to think about”. There are a lot of points here that I would love to discuss. Since this site is about current events I’m going in that direction.

            I take it you believe there were no outside forces in man’s evolvement. What we have today is a result of man’s own doing.
            We both agree “things aren’t fine”. It would take a miracle for man to come to his senses before he annihilates the species. Since miracles would have to come from an outside source, I see no hope but I’m searching.
            You on the other hand aren’t searching as much as instructing. So you must have hope. What possible scenario could possibly come about that would save this culture? As you suggest we may no longer have the luxury of recovering after the next failure.

          • GALT

            I don’t need to search, the solutions are clear, unfortunately
            I am not in a position to initiate them at the moment, through my own efforts so I am going to have to, correct that condition first.

            But there is a question that needs to be settled and one I have posed here from the beginning……..

            “if governments are instituted among men to secure these rights” of which the primary one is “life”………doesn’t that impose upon the government of we the people the responsibility of insuring to every citizen that the basic needs of survival are available in one form of another, to at least this MINIMUM standard?

            Any government which fails to meet this standard, or acknowledge it has no claim to legitimacy…for the point of civilization and government was to improve on the conditions of natural law and the single inalienable right granted to all living things, “the absolute and universal right to continue to attempt to survive.”

            What then can be said for a government which fails to do
            this, but also “criminalizes” actions which are demanded by natural law, itself?

            Now in the year I have been here, no one has dared to respond to this question…….and now that it has been fully explained……( even Livingston sensed the trap and ran
            like hell )……there will a great silence……for the answer is essentially “forced”……..

            Once granted this cascades naturally into whole lot of
            other things about what government is required to do…….
            and is easily applied to every issue here…….

            But of course it hasn’t happened yet…….because all the
            w.i.f.i. rhetoric and all the little slogans that permeate the
            “ignorant” immediately collapse…..

            Trust me, this topic is not for the weak minded……

          • johnd

            I’m confused. What I interpreted from your post is basically the same thing Mr. Livingston is saying: The Gov’t should supply protection from outside enemies and basic law and order. After that the people should be free to seek their survival as they want as long as it doesn’t infringe on the rights of others.
            Could you be a little more precise in how your definition of a perfect gov’t. differs from that of Mr. Livingston.

          • GALT

            To that I can only repeat the question….

            “if governments are instituted among men to secure these rights” of which the primary one is “life”………doesn’t that impose upon the government of we the people the responsibility of insuring to every citizen that the basic needs of survival are available in one form of another, to at least this MINIMUM standard?

            If the legal means of survival are not available…… then seeking it is a “criminal act”……or one simply curls up and dies.

            Basic law and order can not insure that the “legal means of survival” WILL be available…….and unless the law specifically
            states that such a condition can not occur because government will not permit it, you have in fact “criminalized” survival.

            Securing the right to life would therefore entail far more from government than what you have indicated……and failing to provide this…….requires either killing or imprisoning those
            who have no means and for which no job is available….and
            who choose not to curl up and die.

            Economically, killing them is most expedient and cost effective,
            after all, if they were “moral” people they would have chosen to
            curl up and die…..rather than commit the criminal act of “attempting to survive”……so since the outcome is the same…and also a matter of LAW, this would constitute “equal
            justice under the law”.

            If one chooses to imprison them, this now becomes economically unfeasible….( cost is a minimum of $40,000/yr )
            far more than providing for “basic survival requirements ) and since many of these prisons have jobs ( for pennies per hour )
            and this removes, more jobs from the private sector, forcing
            more people into making the “choice”…….and we are locked into and endless downward spiral……

            Of course many people would be quite happy with the first
            solution…….( or claim to be )but now there is no point to government or civilization……..and natural law does not provide these problems…..one survives or one does not……success is obvious…..without any hypocrisy or guilt.

            As I said…..this topic is not for the weak minded……

          • johnd

            I am a little weak minded ( I barely graduated high school) So don’t feel you have to answer me if I get too stupid. I need examples.
            Are governments instituted to secure rights? All gov’ts that I know take rights. Survival can not be guaranteed by any one or any man made entity. This would be more of a religious thing where the priest says God is the answer.
            Does our gov’t. say it will insure minimum standards? What are the minimum standards besides survival? Just because something is not termed legal does not make it illegal. What would be an illegal form of survival besides the obvious of killing or stealing?
            If your saying no gov’t. and natural law rules the earth I could see the merit but I’m not sure that man has evolved to the point where this could work.
            Am I even close to the point you’re trying to make. I’m trying.

          • GALT

            Actually “religion” doesn’t work here……most meta-physical philosophies are attempted rationalizations to negate the

            FACT of human mortality…….and “death” is not the end
            of existence……so neither life nor survival actually matters to
            claimed believers…….because it is not the end.

            When the catholic church were persecuting and exterminating
            the “Cathar heretics” the common expression was “God knows his own.”…..whose modern expression would be “Kill them all, and let god sort them out.”

            Natural Law ( the empirical one, not that invented by humans )
            is determined by “observation”……and is governed by the single unalienable right, previously noted. ( which is actually self evident, unlike those “rights” claimed in the Declaration )

            But the Declaration did state the purpose of government as
            securing the right to life and survival requires access to
            food, shelter and clothing at a minimum.

            The history of the native american population provides a
            useful example……..and what happens when, the means of survival are removed from a culture by another culture, who
            had no right to the land to begin with.

            Natural Law ( real ) permits two strategies in the exercise
            of the single unalienable right. Competition or Co-operation.
            For humans, co-operation within the group was required, because it offered the most probable chance of successful
            reproduction and continuation of both the species and the
            continuation of individual genes, for once it is achieved,
            success for the individual and the species, is also.

            But all of nature co-operates and/or competes and there are
            myriad combinations and many improbable relationships that can be observed……but since we are considering human behavior, let us impose some special conditions….

            Let us reduce all the available land to one island of 100
            acres, with a total population of 50 men and 50 women and sufficient resources for all and the knowledge to utilize them
            while having a sophisticated language to communicate.

            What happens? Does a government form? What kind of law
            is adopted? How does the notion of private property emerge
            and if it does, what form does the economy take?

            We will continue based on your responses……..

          • johnd

            I’ve heard of very primitive tribes deep in the jungle that coexist with nature and survive if the outside influences would leave them alone. But let’s face it most of us wouldn’t want to live like that.

            4 scenarios come to mind.

            1] Garden of Eden: No sin. No coveting or desiring more than anyone else has. No need for government or laws or private property. Cooperation when necessary. If there was a leader it would be established at the time of need by a natural selection of the one who seemed to have the best solution to the problem at hand.

            2] Tribal: The strongest individual takes control. This could be the best or worst scenario depending on who emerges as the leader.
            3] Democracy: people choose leaders. Laws are made by the chosen. On an island of 100 this would be over kill.
            4] Anarchy: every one takes care of themselves.
            I realize there are many different scenarios but I’m not a good writer and a book would be in order. No gov’t. is without flaw and the greed of man is so great it’s hard for me to imagine a society surviving without plenty of room for the individuals to get away from each other. Do you think it could be done?

          • GALT

            The size of the sample should not really be a factor in this exercise……….the point is to consider what the effects of the introduction of government, private property and an economic
            system will produce over time…….

            History has provided us with all manner of examples of various
            combinations but they have essentially all failed or are
            in the process of failing……..and that is because history is
            a set of continued reactions……completely chaotic and in most
            cases entirely devoid of planning beyond the immediate or
            with any regard to the potential consequences……..

            Furthermore this history has been distorted as to its real causes and effects……..so that while documents like the Declaration contain noble sounding phrases such as freedom and liberty, they are a distortion of the true motivations in terms of causes and effects……..and these are no different than
            they have ever been through out history, the desire for
            power, control and personal advantage.

            Our Revolution was about the economic interests of those
            who benefited from the lack of enforcement or ineffective
            enforcement of revenue measures by Great Britain and the
            dynamic created by European conflicts with the French, Dutch, Spanish, etc……….but this was resolved by the Seven Years War, which gave Great Britain complete control of colonies
            and canada…….and the complete eastern seaboard down to florida……..to which they now turned their attention.

            Prior to this, however, ambitious americans ( not connected to crown interests ) had established a thriving trade, importing mollasses, making rum, trading it for slaves in africa, and then more mollasses from the west indies,etc…….benefiting from
            both lax enforcement of the Mollasses Act of 1732/3 and bribing of customs agents, etc. ( of course their were other products involved including English manufactures and all benefited from the loose environment and border control. etc. )

            All of this came to an abrupt end……..as Great Britain was determined to extract revenues that it had been neglecting for
            30 plus years, and since this slammed the lid on those who had been the benificiaries of this…….and all these loopholes were closed………you have the cause of the revolution……

            History, is not presented in this fashion and what followed,
            is simply a chaotic meandering…….flailing at constructing a government while protecting the various special interests of
            individuals and the colonies in which they resided…….

            While the noble rhetoric continued, and has become “the history”…..it was never TRUE, nor is there any evidence that
            it was true……..but the mythology persists, despite the fact
            that if you actually believe in it, none of the history makes any
            sense……..for you had immediate uprisings, and another
            revolution 70 years later…….and the only reason it hung together that long, was loose border control, continued
            smuggling, theft of patented property, and western expansion
            at the expense of the native american population.

            So the reason we are having this discussion, is that none of these questions have been resolved, and it was never the intent or design of “this government” to do so…….despite
            the rhetoric………which makes understanding why we
            are where we are quite simple. ( the alternative is to have to confront the fact that if all that noble rhetoric actually meant anything, the results would suggest that everybody involved
            has been completely stupid and incompetant, to have failed so
            badly and so continuously for the last 250 years. )

            The TRUTH is quite easily seen…..we still use the words
            and we still don’t mean or believe them…….

          • johnd

            I agree. I would even entertain the idea that England (most powerful country in the world) let the colonists (rag tag militia) win that war. Figuring they could control the new world through other means.

            So is there a solution? How about a government ruled by robot? All is black and white. There is no ego or desire for more power. All are treated the same. Sounds ok but who programs the robot? Even if the smartest of our species agreed on the program would we feel comfortable pushing the button to give control to the outside entity?

            Truth is not so easily seen. Truth can have many sides. The glass is both half empty and half full. Both true of the same instance. And then come the interpretations. I understand your point more about stumbling into this civilization. Unless the Bible thumpers are right I see no hope for survival of the human race as it is today. But as I said I’m open to hope and searching for something to tell me I’m wrong.

          • GALT

            It is interesting that you raise the possibility that britain may have thrown the game deliberately, but this seems fanciful in terms of human nature…..as empires do not seem to be willing to part with territory, even in more contemporary circumstances. That war was determined by logistical problems and resources, and even though the colonies were by comparison, in similar to worse shape than the Confederacy, in 1861 and lacking almost all the necessary supplies for the conduct of war, we were a “nation” of “smugglers”…….with 30 years of experience, mostly private and profit driven, and this war presented even greater potential for profit than what had existed before britain had secured its gains in the seven years war. Having the means, and willing suppliers in the other european powers, mostly france……provided a more level playing field. British resources were overtaxed in terms of ships and manpower. They required mercenary forces from the germans…..and tactically, they could not manage to maintain the strategy that might have produced a victory….had they been able to conduct an effective blockade and well as occupation of the ports which permitted these supplies to be distributed to the rebellion. There were simply too many holes and the oceans have served as an effective barrier to invasion even in modern times. The “smuggling spirit” is such a part of our heritage, by any means necessary that it was responsible for the war of 1812….as well as the stalemate it produced……and prolonged the civil war and increased the number of dead to far greater numbers than would have been realized…..had the war been fought with an eye toward expedient victory, rather than being a continuous adventure in opportunities for profit along the way, by individuals on both sides…….

            As to our prospects for the future, they do appear rather dismal……but there are several possible paths which may produce a more beneficial result than the one that seems at the moment, both tragic and unavoidable. This will require a true “enlightenment” to occur regarding those mythologies that have plagued us, since our seredipitous journey began on the path to becoming civilized.

            1.) The first and most important is intelligent acknowledgement of the nature of our existance as indicated by the empirical evidence. We have sufficient information NOW to realize at the very least, that despite our desire to deny the fact of our mortality……the is no credible evidence that will support any belief, that our existance will continue beyond the event of our own physical death no matter how undesireable that outcome is. This acceptance, if it accomplishes nothing else, will allow us to admit the value of life and the tragedy of it’s premature loss from any cause, that could be responsibly avoided……and to alter our behavior to seek to prevent and avoid actions and effects that make us complicit in such outcomes.

            2.) That we are not separate or above the natural environment which supports our existance…….and that these conditions must be maintained within a certain range……which does not exceed the normal range of cyclical variations that permit a sustainable equilibrium for those aspects of the environment that we can contol. We have been pushing these limits for some time now, without any idea of the consequences………but, while denial is still heard……..the effects are on the increase……and hopefully by the end of this decade, we will be ready to accept this reality……and make the transition, to restore as best we can the natural balance, where we can, as well as adapt and apply those developing technologies to this end and share them freely.

            3.) Finally, that our perception of economics be altered to one which reflects the natural value of assets and their sustainablility in terms of entropy and the laws of thermodynamics…..which is the real basis for economics and our continuing survival in the physical universe. That both money and the acquisition of wealth are illusions whose power rest solely with perception and is a human construct……and that human activity which is based on efforts directed toward these ends, are in fact dangerous and counter productive…….as they measure success and productivity by a standard of measurement, which is in many ways destructive and cumulatively damaging in its effects, to the realwealth which exists in the preservation of natural equilibriums and sustainable practices. That true merit and productivity exists in activity which first seeks to do no harm to natural systems……and efforts which produce outcomes which enhance technologies within this framework and produce positive contributions which improve the quality of life for all and are thus deserving of reward.

            Are these things possible? If we can not change our behavioral pattern, which is is still directed by our pre-historic genetic survival strategy, of reproductive continuation and the dominant heirachical status seeking behavior which confers advantage in this outcome, to one which embraces logically based reasoning which acknowledges more egalitarian results based on common need…….and a respect for life, in and of itself……..then we may have already doomed ourselves.

            Still, it is a goal within reach and clearly visible for those capable of discarding the mythologies that serve no useful purpose especially when they are both empirically unsupportable……and clearly run counter to our natural instincts and always have. Life is what we know and we all desire for it to continue…….logically reasoned intelligence demands behavior which seeks to achieve that goal…..in common cause, and that requires co-operation among all, for the benefit of all.

          • johnd

            I know you realize the can of worms you opened because of the parenthesis on the word enlightenment. The enlightenment you speak of would have to be almost en masse to do any good. You say the goal is within reach and visible but is there any history of this type of “enlightenment” occurring?

            Gandhi enlightened millions with a peaceful demonstration. The Beatles could be credited with enlightening a whole generation. Hitler enlightened the German people to becoming the most powerful nation on earth from the most down trodden. But the “enlightenment” you speak of would have to be much greater than those to change the thinking of a whole planet.

            It would have to be “spiritual”. Whether or not this Jesus Christ ever existed, something happened 2000 years ago that changed the course of human history. But even this took a thousand years to take hold and didn’t necessarily change things for the better.

            Based on my logic there can be only 3 ways the species of man will go on existing:

            1]There is an outside influence watching over us;

            2]There will come a leader so influential that the people will follow him without questioning- This could be a Gandhi or a Hitler.
            3]There will be a world wide catastrophe so great that only pockets of humanity will be left and we have to start over.
            Am I missing something?

          • GALT

            Yes, the possibility of a synthesis within the variability of
            of 2 and 3.

            The effects of climate change can force a gradual transformation
            and acceptance without the having the end result you describe, and while this will be significant in its damaging effects, with similarities to the plague in 14th century europe, it will not happen
            in a world, primarilly influenced by magical thinking……we will be aware of the empirical causes.

            Leadership in this sense will also be different, for all of the information and ideas covered above are not confined to a singular source…….but exist as a growing consensus, which due to the the technological availability of this information via the internet, is available to all……..and while denial persists, via
            the self interests that profit at the expense of the common interest………..it will be impossible to maintain the level of cognitive dissonance which relies on ignorance to continue the deny the harmful effects while touting claims that maintaining
            the status quo produces beneficial ones, when there is overwhelming evidence for the first, and none for the second.

            Despite the existence of sites like this, which represent an extreme minority and a reliance on primitive ideas which resist
            all manner of evidence to the contrary and a media, that refuses to confront the power of the plutocrats directly, the
            over whelming majority of people are not willing to inflict suffering on others…….simply because they understand that
            they are and have been the victims…….and they are in fact
            the majority.

            In the end, it may be too little, too late…..and it is quite certain
            that there will be much suffering and death from any number of causes……..because the effects are already in the mix and will assert themselves over time……how much damage is the key
            question. And for that we can only wait and see……

          • johnd

            As I’ve said I’m not too educated and your using words and phrases a little beyond my comprehension. Correct me if I’m wrong but I’m interpreting you to say that things could get bad enough that the leaders causing it or at least not helping would be ousted because the majority would finally realize the truth.
            We are no longer one culture. Our society is so fractured that no one will know who to trust. Race wars will be horrific. Class wars also. I believe the reason the media refuses to confront the power of the plutocrats is because they are owned by the plutocrats. Their purpose is to keep us distrusting our fellow man. As you said “Ignorance is power” and the powers that be are staying powerful by keeping us ignorant. So you are right: the key question is “How much damage?”

          • johnd

            I have a feeling we are winding down on our discussion as maybe we should quit using another’s domain for our own. But before we end could you explain something? You’ve given me plausible reasons why civilization has evolved to our current dilemma and why the colonists were able to defeat Britain, so can you do the same rationalizations for why the Bible and its influence has lasted almost 2000 years?
            I’m not getting religious on you, it’s just that the 3 different religions created from that book seem to be creating the most problems in the world today. I tend to believe in outside influence and you don’t so I’m curious how you rationalize the power of an inanimate object can hold so much control over the masses.

        • vicki

          GALT writes about gold confiscation:
          “Not going to happen, and no longer a requirement……as
          we are no longer on the gold standard, there is no reason to
          confiscate it……..it has always been, just another “commodity”,

          Indeed gold, silver, even the fiat paper used as “legal tender”. All of it is commodity. ALL of it is controlled by that very simple economic equation supply/demand.

          Currently the Fed pushing 85 Billion units of fiat paper per month into the equation will increase the supply of that paper and thus allow people with other items to ask for and get more of that paper for their items.

          We call it inflation.

          • GALT

            Except last week, when it was deflation for My Myer’s….
            and actual paper currency does not exist in sufficient
            quantity to even approach hyper-inflation…..nor would the
            “government” be foolish enough to provide it…….in fact they
            are reducing it’s availability even now.

            Of course, inflation is inseparable from the growth myth,
            and we don’t seem to be having any growth…….and you
            all know WHY. ( insert ignorant choice of scape goat here. )

    • restorefreedom

      This should be front page news but no it’s Obummer swinging a golf club acting like everything is cool. Guess it is for him do nothing till things collapse then declare marshall law and he’s the dictator in chief backed by the UN ……..MWO.

  • jdn

    If you trust the banks and government leave your financial future in their capable hands , if not do what you believe prudent . This should not be a bone of contention and frankly the only ones who would lose anything if things go south is those that trust others with their assets .

    • Ricky O Weber

      Keep a fire proof safe at home with money in it along with all your important papers for you and your family. And by all means if your bank freezes assets then you can still purchase food pay bills because you have planned ahead.

  • Oliver_K_Manuel

    I agree. Society is very unstable today, worldwide.

    The root of the problem is fear and loathing that humans might use the source of energy [1] that destroyed Hiroshima on 6 Aug 1945 to destroy life on Earth, unless subjugated and brought under control by a new one-world government – the United Nations- that was established on 24 Oct 1945:

    http://tinyurl.com/a2ocxtq.

    The UN brought many benefits to mankind – reduced racism, nationalism and risk of nuclear war – but that institution undercut the inalienable rights of all USA citizens to self-governance.

    Coordinated efforts to hide the source of energy that destroyed Hiroshima in 1945 have inadvertently destroyed the integrity of fundamental fields of science – astronomy, astrophysics, cosmology, climatology, geology, nuclear, particle, planetary, solar and space physics – and left world leaders with this harsh reality:

    1. Limited fossil fuels
    2. An expanding world population
    3. An expanding demand for energy per person
    4. Scientific advisors that hid the source of energy that

    _ a.) Made our elements
    _ b.) Birthed the solar system
    _ c.) Sustained the origin and evolution of life
    _ d.) Controls and sustains every atom, life and world in the solar system today

    With deep regrets,
    Oliver K. Manuel
    Former NASA Principal
    Investigator for Apollo
    http://www.omatumr.com

    [1] “Neutron repulsion,” The Apeiron Journal 19, 123-150 (2012)http://tinyurl.com/7t5ojrn

    Reply

    • Right Brain Thinker

      omanuel is back—or is he?—-his handle keeps changing so this may be one of his prior comments copied and posted here just to aggravate us (JAY—are you doing that?—-you little devil).

      This comment is unchanged from the last time he posted it, and, as usual, has NOTHING to do with the topic under discussion. I will say it yet again, go away omanuel, Oliver Manuel, Oliver K. Manuel, WTS/JAY(S?) or whoever you are.

    • John Cherish

      Really can’t see the benefits the UN has brought seems they have caused more human suffering that they have solved. I think they are nothing but an instrument of the New World Order and Satan’s government on earth

  • Keith Champagne

    Maybe Bob is pushing gold and it probably one alternative to a country’s currency, but I think the jist of the article is right on point. We are all being screwed by these elites, the Fed and the Obama regime; and anytime some politician says he/she is looking out for the American people just realize they may be nice and use KY jelly before they screw you.

    • GALT

      Well that would certainly seem to reflect the conventional wisdom
      of the naive realists…….unfortunately, because you offer no specific
      degree of culpability regarding the various factions you cite, or what
      specific role they played and are playing…….you convey no understanding, of the cause, the effects or the solution to the PROBLEM…..or even what the PROBLEM is?

      To make this observation even more relevant, an independant
      investigation, which is currently surfacing and will be continuously
      producing information over the current months and years, on
      public entities engaged in the “off shoring” of wealth and profits.

      What is known now, however is that 1/2 of all world trade, and 1/3
      of all personal wealth, currently resides in the “off shore” jurisdictions,
      which places them “outside” the reach of sovereign nations, their central
      banks, and any other institution or arrangement, seeking to “regulate”
      this activity and the obvious damage it has caused and will continue to cause.

      What is also clear or should be is that this is the result of “free market,
      unregulated, CAPITALISM”, which the “naive realists”, claim we
      need “more of” and even more foolishly believe is the “solution” to
      the PROBLEM……..so insistent, are the “victims” in repeating this
      nonsense, in the face of the “evidence”…….which is now approaching
      the point of being “overwhelming”……that it will even more ridiculous to
      hear the only defense they have ever had to offer……but this
      is “crony” capitalism………

      Wrong children…..unregulated free markets, is what you claim
      you want and it is what you have……. ( well not you ) and it’s
      certainly not socialism, communism, facism,or any other kind
      of ….ism……..so with apologies to Jurassic Park…all it required,
      can be summed up in the paraphrase…..”Greed will find a way.”

      It is history….the history of the WORLD, of all empires failed and
      failing……and it is what brought forth on this continent, a new nation
      despite all the rhetoric fed to the “victims”…..that “something” else
      was the “driving” force.

      “He who controls the present, controls the past. He who controls
      the past, controls the future.”

  • metroman

    Could you explain how Reagan did this? I am one of the little people and I was destroyed under Carter and rehab under Reagan, please explain your position.

    • Deerinwater

      Well I can understand how you might feel this way metroman ~ If you faltered under one administration and flourished under another.

      Without me knowing what Carter’s decisions and policies you blame your faltering on. I can see how Reagan’s excessive federal spending could have pulled you out of a slump, as for the first time in American history the Federal government went into red ink one Trillion dollars. ~ For those in the position to benefit by such spending ~ I’m sure they are grateful and feel most deserving ~ as they earned it. ~ but you need to understand you are a minority ~ that now has money in your pockets.

      This Transfer of wealth ~ was not then or anytime since been equally distributed but favors federal and federal subsidized workers. ~ As Reagan tweaked Federal Tax codes to favor the invested dollar ability to earn over the the Labor earned dollar, while encouraging investing. Government grew and so did the national debit.

      This Reaganomics has continued for over 30 years now and it has created a disparity of great propitiation between the labor earned income and the investment earned income.

      While any one person’s view would reflect the position they found themselves in 1975. ~ What opportunities was available to them and the decisions made could never be shared by all.

      For myself, ~ I commanded more spending power under both Nixon and Carter than I have any administration since as I have depended on the private sector almost exclusively for my income. I say that, ~ as a small business man, ~ the 1st and 15th of each month the Fed lets out money, and I see the effects of this spending in some timely fashion and in small ways. I would be foolish to claim ~ Federal Spending does not affect me in some way.

      This labor earning private sector has been slowly bled dry for the last 3 decades ~ where as today ~ I now live on chicken or feathers. ~ Never enjoyed the ability to save and to invest. There was never any abundance while I did see abundance all around me as my social friends worked for Defense Contractor’s, Insurance companies , Health care profession and Attorneys. ~ Lake cabins, boats, cars, motorcycles, Vegas weekends, New houses, 401 k, pension funds ~ cruses and ski trips ~ suggest an abundance I never had.

      But we must accept the fact ~that great well paying jobs are numerically not available for everyone. We need to understand that one snap shot in time or a single person’s view will never offer us a clear view and explain conditions that has been 30 years in the making.

      I’m not attempting to fault Reagan leadership, ~ as he applied the needed correction for the road conditions at that time. ~ But when these road conditions change and the steering remains the same ~ we will find ourselves off the road and in a ditch. ~ pretty much where we are today.

      The labor earned dollar is taxed higher where by it’s value is less. ~ And today labor earning American’s have max out their credit cards and exhausted their saving accounts and now look to the wealthy investor to spend some money, but they decline ~ seeing greater profits elsewhere or just sit on their 30 years of gains created by disparity.

      Unless it’s a Keystone pipeline ~with mega profits to be made ~ today’s big investors are not really that interested. ~

      They want that Pipeline ~like they want to privatize social security. ~ and before it all over ~ they are going to get it.

      We need some economic balance ~ bring back the value of the earned dollar and we can talk about your Pipeline.

    • GALT

      Not “rocket science”…..if you were “destroyed”, there is no place
      left to go but “up” or “out”?

      As for “income distribution” and where it has gone, since 1982, these
      sources are available for anyone bothering to look, and in fact they
      go all the way back as far as you want.

      So despite your anecdotal experience, “up” is a relative term…..
      especially when you start at “rock bottom”.

    • Bob666

      Yo Metro,
      I did far better under Regan than Carter. But my best time was under Cinton and the first three years of “W”. It went down hill from there.

  • Right Brain Thinker

    Sell that gold, Bob! Throw that horsepucky against the wall and see what sticks! Turn over those rocks and watch the “gold bugs” scurry!

    “For those who recognize gold as a store of value, this presents an
    opportunity. It is one being taken advantage of by Russia, China and the
    1.3 billion people who live in India — and by American gold bugs”.

    Russia, China, and India don’t even make the list of the top 10 holders of gold in the world. But The Netherlands does, interestingly enough—-a tiny country with a population of ~16,000,000—-as opposed to ~2,700,000,000 in Russia, China, and India. .

    The top 10 holders of gold hold about 1/8 of all the gold in the world. It’s worth about $700 billion. China (#7) and Japan (#9) together hold about $70 billion—-1/10 of the 1/8, or about not much over 1% of the total. And that’s only about 1/4 of what the US (#1) holds. China and Japan together have foreign reserves of about $4 TRILLION dollars, so gold amounts to less than 2% of their reserves. The U.S. GDP is around $15 Trillion, and our gold reserves of ~$270 billion are a small fraction of that.

    I wish someone would explain to us why gold has so much significance when it is represents so little of the “wealth” that is moving around the planet. It seems to me that it’s just a Ponzi scheme for most and a “security blanket” for others. When the SHTF big time, cans of beans and boxes of bullets will be “worth more than their weight in gold”.

    You ought to stick to all the machinations with the “paper wealth” and “reserve currencies” and such, Bob. That IS worrisome.

    • Right Brain Thinker

      OOOOPS—–before the fools jump on me for making a mistake, I will point it out myself. China DOES make the top ten list, as I pointed out elsewhere—it is #7 with about $35 billion in gold. Delete China from the first sentence of the third paragraph.

      PS How come RBT is the only one who can ever find any error in what RBT posts?

  • jim B

    And of the recent unemployment news, less than half of the governments employment growth expectations, lower than the lowest economic estimate from the soothsayers… ouch! But hey who needs to look for work, or work, if the governments going to give you other people’s money to survive. Man are they going to be angry when the money runs dry, and hungry too!

    • The Christian American

      Everybody employed by government is overhead, some necessary, some not. Government is a liabilty. A society can function fine without government, providing everybody is moral.

  • FreedomFighter

    The END GAME started when Obama was elected, and will end with New World Order as Joe BITEME Biden declared. All Over America Evangelical Christians Are Being Labeled As “Extremists” And “Hate Groups”

    The brainless, perverted cowards who demonstrate in the nude, take their same-sex partner to church and convince “elect me for the 20th term” Congressman Joe Stupid–that taking firearms away from the honest, decent folks who have the absolute need to defend themselves from the bad guys in and out of government–to legislate them away once and for all. A quick check of history will show that tyrannical governments, which evolved out of immoral freedom and complacency moved to disarm the people for one reason. The zealots in government knew that sooner than later, even the remarkably ignorant would be pushed to rebellion. They also knew that the best trained legions of Rome, Germany, Russia, China, or the United States, would not be able to stand with brute force alone against true justice and personal freedom fighters forever.

    However, liberation has always come at a huge loss of life, property and treasure. The same is about to be repeated in our nation as well. Government has taxed us, beaten us down, and legislated us into a maze of confusion, anger and desperation. The uniformed legions of police and military have trained for, equipped with billions of dollars for domestic war, and have begun the final effort to demonize millions into a terrorist mold conceived by politicians, labeled by fusion center and homeland security bastards, set up for persecution by raging homosexuals, vengeful Muslims and politically correct ministers who would not recognize Scripture or a prophetic word from God if it were sent to their pulpit in a 510C(3) official IRS sealed envelope.

    As a nation, we are beyond redemption or repair.by Greg Evensen

    So…Do The Multitude Of Crises Mean That The Endgame Is Near? Without doubt the Endgame is being played out right this second.

    Laus Deo
    Semper FI

  • The Christian American

    For me, I have to go back to the beginning. First came bartering. People use to swap things with other people. The came a “Medium of exchange”. Something that all would accept, like gold. People went to market with gold to “Purchase” what they’d need. Next came robbers, people stealing gold. Next came banks or vault keepers, bankers. People stored their gold with bankers and got a receipt or certificate for it. Next, people use to trade their certificates rather than carry their gold. Bankers realized that they always had gold in storage so they printed counterfeit certificates and loan them to people, with interest. Soon bankers realized they were getting rich by loaning out their counterfeit certificates. Something for nothing. As long as the bankers had enough gold at all times so they could redeem certificates when people asked for their gold. Bankers loaned certificates to governments and nobles. Bankers got nervous. What if they had a run on gold? Did they have enough gold on hand? They made special deals with nobles and governments to protect them if that happened. Nobles and governments got in the theft game. People became so accustom to using the certificates as their medium of exchange, they began to feel the certificates they had were a measure of their wealth, but in reality, all the people really had was paper certificates. People went so far as to let their government borrow certififcates, now called FRN’s, with their guarantee of repayment.
    What was the people’s was no longer the peoples, that is the gold and silver backing the paper reciepts. Because governments managed to safeguard the gold and silver from the people, government and banks ran wild printing pieces of paper. They printed so many counterfeit pieces of paper of it would take about 1,700 pieces to get one ounce of gold where 20 pieces of paper would have done the job at the turn of the last century. Now the people just watch as government plans it’s next move. “When you see things happening in politics, they don’t just happen. You can bet they were planned that way”… FDR.

    • John Cherish

      yes and you also know that this current paper certificates for things of value is unsustainable as the confidence that backs the worthless notes allows you to buy nothing with them. So if you produce a product say a food item then if you refuse to sell that item for paper notes, the holders of those notes will starve if that is all they have. The same token is that if you only have gold you can not eat that. And in a survival society Food is more precious than Gold but you may be killed for your food or have it stolen from you. People hoarding all the Gold won’t work thinking that we will work for them and produce the food they need. It will be in these times you will be forced to work by force of arms to provide for them (Slavery) Once placed in bondage what do you do I would say Die free, rather than be their slave

      • The Christian American

        There are certain things that are very valuable in a depression. Forinstance tires and guns and ammo. Gold is valuable if people are using it as their medium of exchange otherwise things necessary to sustain life and things that would be used for housing and mobility.

    • GALT

      Sorry “barter” did not come first…….the sequence is credit, money, barter.

      You can learn about it in Debt: The First 5000 Years…..

      You will then have something to build on, instead of sharing what you

      do not know…….

      • Nadzieja Batki

        But you are wrong as well, Galt. First came self provision. Barter came next as one person or one family could not grow and make all things they needed or desired or had the skills for.

        • GALT

          And your source? Because you have none, and your terms are nonsensical……but try actually using your “imagination”….
          and consider the 195,000 years preceding civilization, rather
          than attempting to impose the present, of which you understand
          little upon a past. of which you know nothing.

          • vicki

            And the famous GALT source is?

          • GALT

            My source is cited…..of course, you are once again in w.i.f.i.
            mode, or you would have comprehended the dialog to this point.

            It is foolish to follow the lead of other “functional illiterates”, and if you have an intelligent question that is relevant to what has been said, I am always at your disposal…….of course, the usual result of your attempt to insert yourself, is my having to dispose of you.

            Q.E.D.

  • Rob
  • Terry Bateman

    Bob Livingston says that the federal reserve’s monetary expansion is soley
    responsible for what economic expansion, jobs increase, and stock market
    rise that we do have. Bob Livingston says that the federal reserve’s monetary
    expansion will never end. I guess Bob Livingston thinks that the current economic
    expansion, employment expansion, and stock market rise will never end.

    • http://personalliberty.com/ Bob Livingston

      Dear Terry Bateman,

      You write: ” the federal reserve’s monetary expansion is soley
      responsible for what economic expansion, jobs increase, and stock market
      rise that we do have.” Please provide evidence of economic expansion and jobs increase.

      Best wishes,
      Bob

      • Deerinwater

        I would say without research ~ The illusion of imminent doom has been replaced by opportunism and hope. ~~ how is that?

        Some degree of confidence is what keeps the train on the track amid all this doom and gloom Mr. Livingston. ~ If you choose to accept only “hard reality” ~ you would have already put your lips around the barrel of a 357 and squeezed off a round and gave yourself a haircut.

        January 2009 ~ was nothing but doom and gloom ~ before the current administration even took office or signed his name, we’ve come a ways since then. ~

        But yes! Your glass is half empty! as is mine.

        I count myself fortunate to side step many a bullet. I know of many ~ less so and remember the last words the said to me before they departed this world, ~ so less not bull$hit the bull$hiter ~

        Yes! things are bad still! and Yes! They could be much worse.

        There is so much wrong going on, ~ It hard to find a place to start. ~

        But I would like to see my labor earned dollar worth the same amount as the investment earned dollar for starters. ~ That is a place to start ~ and we can go from there.

  • 010sonny

    If we choose to seek the bottom line to our economics and its benefits and flaws suggest a book By Joseph E. Stiglitz . Nobel Prize winner on Economics. Book title “ The Price Of Inequality”
    Austerity measures have constantly been exposed as a failure. F.D.R.’s financial advisor, Eccles, proposed that the way to restore the Nation from the Great Depression was for the government to pick up the lost of consumers lost. Essentially the driving force to our economics was the middle class. Innovations, laborers and their appetite for consumption fueled the dynamo with the liquidity that is required to continue the progress of sustainable progression to economics. Obama and Berniake have taken pages from Eccles philosophies on economic growth. Elizabeth Warren is instrumental in holding the Wall Street hooligans accountable. We have advanced from the dysfunctional system, the republicans handed over in 2008, faster than Reagan’s and Clinton’s best efforts. That Banks are now under attack by Elizabeth Warren, those with any knowledge of what she could achieve is making them to withdraw their investments to banks.
    World Bank uses the Inequality in finical distribution as a factor in the stability of the nation’s economics. At present the USA ranks 37th in western civilized nations. Inequality of distributions is in proportion to how many recessions and finical collapses.
    Observe the Scandinavian nations with their intelligent regulation of their Capitalism has produced nations with superior security of their finances. Sweden is an excellent specific example.
    Recently they passed a law that holds their CEO’s earnings in proportion to the earnings and assets of the corporation and have outlawed lavish bonuses and golden parachutes. That’s is but one example of the measures they have taken to reign in Inequality of distributions of the laborers productivity.
    Bob is still exhibiting a subdued biases for Inequality and to continue upon a path well trodden by the failures of those sovereignties of austerity.

    • FreedomFighter

      Every please read the above poster, know the enemy of freedom and lies they tell.
      Bernard is a hard core communist and his talk of “distribution” is called theft by government and has never worked, INCENTIVE is what drives CREATION of wealth, redistribution causes stagnation and then they redistribute even more and the wealth of a nation evaporates — it is the failure of socialism in every case –Socialist = they run out of other peoples money.
      Laus Deo
      Semper FI

      • $9913635

        To solve the “elite” problem. Just tell them when it all crashes we will go where you live and take everything. What you own on the land we will raid. In another words you or your “stuff” will not be safe anymore.

        So do the right thing, except your losses, if we pay you must to in the same percentage. Not like Cyprus where the rich took out all their millions and left the middle-class paying their share, but not the rich.

        • GALT

          You are citing “natural law” as it should be properly stated, unfortunately the “acquisitor’s”, have been undermining this
          understanding since the dawn of civilization as well as
          devising means to protect what they have acquired, once
          the primary source of power evolved beyond that of the
          governmental, military, religious authorities, into one where
          even these can be corrupted and manipulated from the
          outside. ( which clearly increases profit margins and lowers
          costs. )

      • Deerinwater

        ” it is the failure of socialism in every case –Socialist = they run out of other peoples money.”

        I guess it’s a matter of claiming what is yours then hmm~ FreedomFighter? ~ ~ Possessing and actually owning are two different things, while I confess , they do favor. ~ If I take from you does it make it mine? ~ Is there a statue of limitations ~ on when you can claim it was stolen? Therefore making it mine by default? ~

        To legally steal ~ is a moral crime. And that is what has been going since Ronnie tweaked the tax codes and shifted the balance to favor those with the most ~ where they now feel entitled by default and deserving by shear position and not by the merits of their efforts or investment.

        • FreedomFighter

          Your on the wrong website for anyone to believe that garbage.
          All problems with the tax code, spending and government regulation can be traced to “PROGRESSIVES”, and a progressive is socialist/communist.
          The elites buy and make politicians and of couse everyone knows that the DEMS controlled congress and Reagan had to make deals to pass more important bills. Again the blame rests on the shoulders of PROGRESSIVE legislation throwing the monkey wrench into the American system.
          When Reagan went to far in his passion of making America great again — they shot him, like JFK and others.
          Laus Deo
          Semper FI

          • GALT

            Wrong website? Even if that were true, which it is not,
            that would be a far better fate than yours……being in
            the WRONG UNIVERSE.

            Ever hear of Giuseppe Zangara or the Business Plot?

          • Deerinwater

            No ! not at all ! We are right where we need to be ~ Sir. for you need worthy opposition in the worst way. ~ I could do “no good” on Huff Post! Singing to the choir is something that I will never be guilty of. I take the battle to you. ~ for example; what do you mean by “They” shot him? Who is they? Are” they” the same ones that shot Lincoln as well? ~ Is getting shot a requirement to be on “your” side?

            You make the claim “All problems with the tax code, spending and government regulation can be traced to “PROGRESSIVES”, and a progressive is socialist/communist.”

            I say, first ~ the commies are in No. Korea and the Socialist are in Cuba and so ~ please offer me something in support of your claim that Reagan had to make deals with democrats to get his legislation passed that favored the wealthy. ~ but more importantly ~ why must we continue to treat the economy with a Ronnie Reagan cure ~ long after we were cured and Ronnie is long met his final reward? ~ For it is now his “cure” that is now making us sick!

            “W” gave tax breaks to the wealthy ~ to create jobs and spur the economy ~ While we never got the job nor the boost in the economy ~ The affluent still wanted their Tax cuts ~ ! While they never delivered on their end of the bargain. ~ They acted as if their throat was being cut ~ to got back and pay the old tax rate when a large majority of Americans had the opportunity to prosper ~ and the Federal government was actually keeping the budget spending between the two ditches.

          • Right Brain Thinker

            Yep, just as with Bernard, FF is sounding a bit scared and frantic here as well—-that is why he is again just parroting mindlessness.

            PROGRESSIVES = socialist/communist and monkey wrench throwers—-mindless and ignorant.

      • Right Brain Thinker

        Actually, FF, Bernard is not telling any lies at all but is just reminding us of that TRUTH that is there for all to see except for the WIFI’s like you.

        And it sounds like some of it may have sunk in—-you are sounding a bit scared and frantic here—-is that why you are just parroting mindlessness?

    • GALT

      Unfortunately, there IS no nobel prize for economics.

      Mr. Stiglitz, like all others before him won the Bank of Sweden Prize
      for Economics ( in memory of Alfred Nobel ) as did those who are most
      responsible for your present circumstance, those who demonstrated
      that risk could be eliminated, and whose exercise through the actions
      of a single company Long Term Capital Mgmt almost single handedly
      crashed the U.S. economy, sending a clear signal what the dangers
      were is the repeal of Glass Steagall, before it was actually repealed.

      This evidence was ignored, and here you are……

      This previous incident is why Lehman was allowed to fail, but
      why quibble over “facts”?

    • Michael Shreve

      FDR was a TOTAL failure. NONE of his programs brought us prosperity. It took WWII to do that, so thank the Japs and Hitler. You should also STOP blaming Wall Street for the greed of their investors. Dishonest accounting practices SHOULD have resulted in PRISON for a number of people though.

      • GALT

        Of course you are totally wrong and can therefor be ignored.

        See, The Rich Don’t Always Win…….and learn how easily it is
        to convince the “ignorant” that they should desire greater victim hood
        simply because their oppressors have labeled the opposition
        “socialists”……….( the level of stupidity will astound you….well
        maybe not YOU. )

  • WTS/JAY

    HOW DO YOU LIKE YOUR WEATHER…NATURAL or MAN-MADE?

    Weather modification has been ongoing for decades in the United States. It was perfected during the Vietnam War leading to the ENMOD Treaty signed by the United States. However, this has not stopped a whole host of weather modification programs and experiments being initiated or are now ongoing in the United States and with increasing frequency in many foreign countries.

    The profound impact of these ever-increasing and highly sophisticated weather experiments and programs are radically changing our climate and local weather conditions in many areas. Your local weathermen are not reporting these events leading many to believe that some man-made weather is either extreme or unusual…thus, the public is unaware of many of these programs.

    These exponentially growing programs have no government or public oversight, limited oversight in a very few states which allow them, and no government or public oversight or consent for the rest of them. These programs change the climate, the micro-climates needed for watersheds, negatively impact tree health, and agriculture crop production. NOAA lists some of these programs but most are not listed due to their experimental nature, military classification, university experiments, and failures to notify NOAA by various states, counties, cities, weather modification companies, and private individuals and corporations who may all modifying your weather.

    Your local weather forecasters either don’t know about or deliverately won’t report on ongoing experimental weather modification programs letting the public believe that the weather that they are experiencing is unusual or extremem without identifying any ongoing weather modification programs. These weather modification experiments, if known by the public, could lead to liability lawsuits due to damage caused by these programs to be levied against those conducting these experiments, which include, but are not limited to, private indidivduals, corporations, military experiments, and programs initiated by cities, counties, states, and other government agencies.

    Climate change and global warming are blamed for some unusual weather events by meterologists. Thus, they can escape from telling you the truth about these experiments pretending that there is nothing the public can do about these events. The Weather Channel and local newscasters, to my knowlege do not report on current and ongoing weather modification programs, even when they are taking place, according to the National Weather Service (See Interview on C-SPAN September 2, 2011).

    U.S. Senate Bill S601 (introduced by Senator Kay Bail Hutchison-Texas), was not passed by the U.S. Senate in 2010. Senator Hutchison has introduced a version of this bill each year since 2005, and the public has lobbied successfully to stop passage. It is highly likely that Senator Hutchison will again introduce a similar version of this bill in the Senate in 2011 or 2012. This bill allows anyone to mitigate or modify your weather without public notification, consent, oversight or debate. This bill could also be added as an amendment to other legislation and passed. The implication for agriculture, watersheds, water supplies, and who will receive the benefits or the negative consequences are hidden from public view.

    Full article: http://agriculturedefensecoalition.org/?q=weather-modifications

  • dassa0069

    GOLD IS MONEY YOU CAN TRUST.

  • coalminer

    This has change.