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Discharged Gay Soldier Vows To Continue To Fight For Marriage Equality

July 30, 2010 by  

Discharged Gay Soldier Vows To Continue To Fight For Marriage EqualityLieutenant Dan Choi came out publicly as a homosexual in early 2009, and last week the military announced that it was giving him an honorable discharge. However, the Iraq war veteran has promised to fight for the rights for other soldiers who are forced to hide their sexual orientation.

Choi’s dismissal was mandated under the current “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy, which the Obama administration has promised to repeal. However, this initiative is now on hold, pending a review of the attitudes in the military that is being conducted by the Pentagon and expected to be completed by the end of this year.

Meanwhile, Choi has promised to push for a quick overturn of the law that bans openly homosexual individuals from serving in the military, telling CNN that “there are a lot of people who are suffering, and my oath, my commitment to them, doesn’t end.”

Choi is a 2003 West Point graduate who served two tours in Iraq and is a fluent Arabic speaker.

According to Service Members Legal Defense Network, more than 13,500 soldiers have been discharged under the law since it was passed by Congress and signed by President Clinton in 1994.ADNFCR-1961-ID-19909781-ADNFCR

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  • Terrie

    I don’t believe in gay marriage. It goes against God’s Law and the Law of Nature. However, if I were a gay person who felt the need to be married I would just find a preacher to do the ceremony and fix my paperwork legally to reflect the partnership for legal purpose. Of course, it wouldn’t be a real marriage but it should satisfy the need to pretend that same sex marriage is normal.

    • Chipper

      Sorry, that’s the same OLD tired argument. You’re judging others and not loving your neighbor as yourself. Try again. It also says in the Bible, not to wear blended fabrics or eat shellfish. Remember, as it says in the bible…”We’re ALL sinners”. So drop your (word removed for offensive content) finger pointing at others and look at the one in the mirror!

      • Robin, Arcadia, IN

        Chipper… Going by the standards that God has set in the Bible is not judging. I don’t hate gay people. Their sin is just sin, nothing else. I pray for those who do not know God. We all fall short of the glory of God. Jesus died as an atonement for our sin, and this includes the sin of homosexuality, as well as stealing, coveting, lying, etc. Being gay is sinful and an abomination to God. This is Biblical, not my opinion, but my conviction.

        • Chipper

          Hi Robin. Read and learn.
          The background of Leviticus is important to understand. The people are being told not to act like the “pagans”. This is also the format Paul uses in Romans. “You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.” These words occur solely in the Holiness Code of Leviticus, a ritual manual for Israel’s priests. This prohibition of supposedly homosexual acts follows after the prohibition of the idolatrous sexuality of worshipping Molech, whose cult included male cult prostitutes and bestiality. Lev 18 is specifically designed to distinguish the Jews from the pagans who worshipped the multiple gods of fertility cults. It also is included with other Mosaic laws such as required killing kids who curse their parents, the death penalty for picking up sticks or doing other work on the Sabbath, and under the law, slave-beating was a protected legal right!

          From a Jewish prospective, the commandments given at Sinai, including those of Leviticus (in Hebrew Jews simply name a book after the first word that appears – “V’yikra” – which means “then he spoke”) were given to the Jewish people. Since they were only commanded to Jews, no one who is not Jewish need worry about obeying them. Judaism holds God taught basic laws to all humanity before Sinai (no murder, rape, etc), but that the more specific laws such as in Leviticus, apply only to Jews.

          Lev 20:13 is giving the penalties for the Lev 18:22 “abomination” or in the Hebrew “toevah” Unlike what the English translation implies, toevah did not usually signify something intrinsically evil, but something ritually unclean for Jews. Eating pork, shellfish, lobster, eating meat 3 days old, trimming beards, etc is just as much an “abomination”. It is used throughout the OT to designate those Jewish sins which involve ethnic contamination or idolatry. In many other OT verses it simply means idolatry. Lev 18 is specifically designed to distinguish the Jews from the pagans among whom they had been living. The prohibition of supposedly homosexual acts follows after the prohibition of idolatrous sexuality of worshipping Molech, whose cult included male cult prostitutes and bestiality.

          Chapter 20 begins with a prohibition of sexual idolatry almost identical with this, and like 18, its manifest purpose is to elaborate a system of ritual “cleanliness” whereby the Jews will be distinguished from neighboring peoples. This was also the interpretation given by later Jewish commentaries such as those of Maimonides. Boswell also references much Jewish historic discussion about the non practice of the death penalty which is also mandated for violating the Sabbath, cursing one’s parents and many infractions listed in the Talmud.

          • Chuck

            I am afraid you will find yourself on the wrong side of the equation at the great white throne judgment friend.

            Scripture revels that the Lord does not change.
            Hebrews 13:8
            Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

            Jesus IS the Word
            John 1:1, 14
            1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God

            14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

            Jesus – just like the Word does not change. If the Lord calls something an abomination 3000 years ago. guess what? it is STILL an abomination.

            Christ did not do away with Mosiac law – he fulfilled it.

            But – perhaps you do not want to consider ANYTHING in the “Old” testament. Lets look at the New.

            Romans 1:26-27
            26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.

            Sure does not sound like a glowing endorsement of homosexual behavior does it?

            Here is another one.

            1 Corinthians 6:9-11
            9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,[a] nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

            Most interesting part is that is says some of them WERE homosexuals. Funny that – they USED to be, but were not any longer. And again, hardly a pro-homosexual passage there.

            There are many more – but if these two do not catch your attention – then 50 more would not either.

            See – The Lord does not change, and though you will try and twist what the entire word is very very clear about – it changes nothing.

            1 Timothy 4:1-2
            1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron

            I would contend this would be a more applicable verse to look at. The idea that homosexuality is not a sin is most certainly the doctrine of a demon. God has forbidden it rather clearly over and over. To try and twist the Word of God is not something that the Lord will take lightly.

            Blessings

      • http://?? Joe H.

        chipper,
        I don’t hate gays, I hate their sin!!! That is what the Bible tells me to do hate not the sinner, hate the sin!!

        • Chipper

          Your earlier comment: “I prefer to stick with the King James version, thank you!”

          Are you aware that that King James was a homosexual?

          Like Jesus, as a young child King James I was well-versed in the Scriptures. So if they condemned homosexuality, he would have known about it. In addition, he was in the best position possible to have eradicated any such language from the Scriptures! As a matter of documented fact, in the early 1500s, homosexuals were called, among other things, Inverts. If the 1611 Bible sponsored by the King said anything regarding homosexuality, any of the commonly used words of the time would have been used to denote it. Speculation of any kind would be unnecessary!

          Actually, no one had the impression homosexuality was a sin until the 1946 Revised Standard Version of the Bible was published in the USA. It deliberately mistranslated certain text to read, homosexual(s).

          I repeat: No one had the impression homosexuality was a sin until the 1946 Revised Standard Version of the Bible was published in the USA. It deliberately mistranslated certain text to read, homosexual(s).

          The word homosexual wasn’t in the bible until them. And it licensed the country’s Super Holy Televangelists (e.g. Billy Graham, Pat Robertson, Oral Roberts, and Jerry Falwell) to openly express their bigotry!

          Since you are unwilling to have an open mind to other possibility, I guess you’ll continue to follow your path of arrogant self-righteousness. The following speaks loudly of this:

          Luke 16:15 – And Jesus said unto them, you which justify yourselves in your own righteous before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

          • Chuck

            Please open your KJV bible to the book of Romans.

            26For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

            27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

            You are correct on this one. The WORD homosexual is not in there, but it is rather obvious what they are talking about! Please read the Word of God to find out what it says. Do not hold onto your beliefs and go into the Word to try and defend YOUR thoughts. You go into the Word and let God show you HIS thoughts.

            Blessings

      • Viktor Leben

        Chipper,

        It’s an abomination. Look at what the Bible says, in Acts the Council of Jerusalem said gentile converts shouldn’t practice homosexuality (fornication). Then you have the homosexuality in Sodom and Gomorrah, we know what happen to that city… Then in the Book of Judges the tribe of Benjamin almost disappears, all problems started because of a Homosexual gang raping and killing a woman ! I guess they were tolerant.

        Homosexuals don’t like heterosexuals. If they did they wouldn’t put us in danger of fire and brimstone. Homosexuals toleration always ends up with rampant violent homosexual gangs raping and killing the heterosexual population.

        Have you noticed how “pushy” homosexual “rights” groups are today ? The more you tolerate it the more “pushy” they will get. The USA will become one big penitentiary (prison) where homosexual rape gangs will rule. Look at how violent homosexuals are in prisons !

        We seldom hear news about homosexuals killing and raping children and heterosexuals from the main street medium … Why is that ? I just mention a few occurrences recorded in the Bible. Jesus first miracle was at the marriage in Cana – where he changed the water to wine. His warning to the thyiatrian church (in Revelations chapter 2) was very clear. The woman “jezebel” was teaching sexual immorality is OK. You can read Jesus’s view on that …”I will cast her on a bed of suffering, and I will make those who commit adultery with her suffer intensely, unless they repent of her ways.” That includes Homosexuality !

        Plenty of other passages. Homosexuals are putting our lives in danger .. why should they be tolerated ?

        But if you want to be forever tolerant .. just remember it seems God looks at it differently ….

        • Chipper

          Please read and learn, Mr. Stone thrower!

          The background of Leviticus is important to understand. The people are being told not to act like the “pagans”. This is also the format Paul uses in Romans. “You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.” These words occur solely in the Holiness Code of Leviticus, a ritual manual for Israel’s priests. This prohibition of supposedly homosexual acts follows after the prohibition of the idolatrous sexuality of worshipping Molech, whose cult included male cult prostitutes and bestiality. Lev 18 is specifically designed to distinguish the Jews from the pagans who worshipped the multiple gods of fertility cults. It also is included with other Mosaic laws such as required killing kids who curse their parents, the death penalty for picking up sticks or doing other work on the Sabbath, and under the law, slave-beating was a protected legal right!

          From a Jewish prospective, the commandments given at Sinai, including those of Leviticus (in Hebrew Jews simply name a book after the first word that appears – “V’yikra” – which means “then he spoke”) were given to the Jewish people. Since they were only commanded to Jews, no one who is not Jewish need worry about obeying them. Judaism holds God taught basic laws to all humanity before Sinai (no murder, rape, etc), but that the more specific laws such as in Leviticus, apply only to Jews.

          Lev 20:13 is giving the penalties for the Lev 18:22 “abomination” or in the Hebrew “toevah” Unlike what the English translation implies, toevah did not usually signify something intrinsically evil, but something ritually unclean for Jews. Eating pork, shellfish, lobster, eating meat 3 days old, trimming beards, etc is just as much an “abomination”. It is used throughout the OT to designate those Jewish sins which involve ethnic contamination or idolatry. In many other OT verses it simply means idolatry. Lev 18 is specifically designed to distinguish the Jews from the pagans among whom they had been living. The prohibition of supposedly homosexual acts follows after the prohibition of idolatrous sexuality of worshipping Molech, whose cult included male cult prostitutes and bestiality.

          Chapter 20 begins with a prohibition of sexual idolatry almost identical with this, and like 18, its manifest purpose is to elaborate a system of ritual “cleanliness” whereby the Jews will be distinguished from neighboring peoples. This was also the interpretation given by later Jewish commentaries such as those of Maimonides. Boswell also references much Jewish historic discussion about the non practice of the death penalty which is also mandated for violating the Sabbath, cursing one’s parents and many infractions listed in the Talmud.

        • AllInTheMind

          Studies show that the people who are the most disgusted with homosexuality, such as yourself, are the MOST closeted.

          You may want to do a bit more research on yourself!

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Allin the mind,
            sources for that statement please!!! I am very disgusted by homosexuality and am very comfortable in my hetero skin, thank you!

        • YourWrong

          Sodom and Gomorrah Had Nothing To Do About Homosexuality

          Some teach that the sins of Sodom and Gomorrah was homosexual. This has no theological support. A careful look at scripture corrects such ignorance.

          Perhaps one of the most misleading term in English is the use of the word sodomy to describe anal penetration and/or male homosexuality. The mere fact of this linguistic development sealed in the minds of many English speaking people that Sodom was destroyed because of homosexuality. The Church’s false teaching on this issue is an abomination and travesty, not loving homosexuals that are unfairly condemned by this ignorance.

          God appeared to Abraham telling him that he and Sara would have a child and they were going to investigate the wickedness in Sodom & Gomorrah. Thinking God would destroy the cities, Abraham made a deal with God, that He would not destroy the cities if 10 righteous people could be found in Sodom where Abraham’s nephew Lot lived.

          God sends two angels to Sodom, where Abraham’s nephew, Lot, persuades the angels to stay at his home. Genesis 19 records that “all the people from every quarter” surround Lot’s house demanding “to know them”. It was common in those times to use violent and brutal rape as a way to humiliate and establish power over another, not unlike in some prison situations today. It is also done by heterosexual males which is very unnatural for them. This was part of the terrible acts of pederasty, the opposite of today’s loving homosexual natural relationships.

          Lot attempts to protect the visitors sent by God by offering his two virgin daughters to be raped. The people of Sodom refuse them and the angels render the crowd blind. Lot and his family are then rescued by the angels as the cities are destroyed.

          ALL of Sodom’s people participated in the assault on Lot’s house; in no culture has more than a small minority (7-10%) of the population been naturally homosexual. Therefore it can be assumed most of the violators were heterosexual. Lot’s offer to give his daughters suggests he knew the crowd had heterosexual interests – in fact offering young women for sexual hospitality was common. While it is unclear, even if homosexual rape was what the people were after it was do defile the strangers unnaturally

          between mostly heterosexual males against another heterosexual male as in pederasty. This rape attempt has nothing to do with loving, consenting homosexual love but was clearly not the reason for God’s destruction of Sodom.

          Homosexuality can not be called one of the sins of Sodom, Gomorrah or Gilbeah since it is not in any of the lists of their sins given in the O.T. Ezekiel 16:48-50 lists the specific sins of Sodom as pride, plenty, laziness, uncaring for needy, haughty and worshipping idols – which was an abomination – not homosexuality.

          Some try and see in the word “abomination”, a false reference to homosexual activity. This word translated abomination is to’ebah in Hebrew and is frequently found in the Old Testament. If one reads it in context every where it appears it is always connected with idolatry – never homosexuality. Just a few examples are in Deut 7:25-26 where it is the idol used in false worship, Proverbs 21:27 having to do with broader false worship etc. The people of Sodom were involved in idolatry.

          The attempts to stretch “abomination” to “unclean” acts in Leviticus as to mean homosexuality is just as false. That would mean that we would be just as justified to claim that the sin of Sodom was that of shellfish eating, beard trimming or that the sin of Sodom was menstruation on the part of the womenfolk for the same reason.

          • Viktor Leben

            Chip and YourWrong.

            Jude chapter 1 verse 7

            New International Version (©1984)
            In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

            New Living Translation (©2007)
            And don’t forget Sodom and Gomorrah and their neighboring towns, which were filled with immorality and every kind of sexual perversion. Those cities were destroyed by fire and serve as a warning of the eternal fire of God’s judgment.

            English Standard Version (©2001)
            just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.

            New American Standard Bible (©1995)
            just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.

            International Standard Version (©2008)
            Likewise, Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities near them, which like them committed sexual sins and engaged in homosexual activities, serve as an example of the punishment of eternal fire.

        • Chipper

          Gee whiz, did you even read my posts regarding the old testament? There is a lot of mistranslated language that has ended up in many of the modern day Bibles. Many translations from the Aramaic Bible (Aramaic being the language Jesus spoke) are not 100% accurate, according to many accredited Bible Scholars. It is appalling to me that so many people follow blindly without even looking into the background of the things they are willing to condemn.

          If you read the following you’ll see that it’s not God who’s against homosexuality, it’s Man, who perpetuated the condemnation of homosexuality.

          The Hebrew Old Testament clearly indicates that King David had a sexual relationship with Jonathan, the son of King Saul.

          The Hebrew Old Testament clearly documents a sexual relationship between the prophet Daniel and a man named Ashpenaz, and indicates that God put Daniel into that relationship.

          Much to the embarrassment of the Vatican, the Catholic Boswell has uncovered proof that, up until the fourteenth century, the church was routinely performing wedding ceremonies for same-sex couples.

          The social tides in Europe began to turn against homosexuality around the thirteenth century. Up until that time, there was no organized opposition to homosexuality, either from society or from the church.

          The religious tide did not turn against homosexuals until after the social tides. The change in society’s attitude toward homosexuals was the only reason the church stopped marrying them and began to persecute them.

          Boswell found that same-sex marriage continued in certain parts of eastern Europe until the nineteenth century, and that in a few villages, they still continue.

          King James, who ordered the English translation of the Bible which bears his name, was a homosexual, a fact of which the translators were well aware. This fact displeased them, but since he was the king, they could not express their displeasure openly. Although on the surface, they were careful to be certain that their translation flattered and pleased the king, they also used it to attack him in a way he could not fight.

          There is absolutely no condemnation of homosexuality in the Hebrew Old Testament.
          There is absolutely no condemnation of homosexuality in the Greek New Testament.

          All English translations (one of the earliest being 1611 AD, more than 200 years after the social tide turned against homosexuals, and more than 100 years after the church stopped performing most homosexual weddings) have been deliberately mistranslated to make it appear that God condemned homosexuality.

          The Hebrew and Greek scriptures never connected Soddom and Gomorrah with homosexuality. The idea that those cities were destroyed for homosexuality is a man-made notion and is unsupported by scriptures.

          The Greek New Testament, while not condemning homosexuality, does forbid people to attempt to alter their sexual orientation.

          Do you get it now, Viktor? Probably not. I hope you will one day open your eyes, as well as your heart, to loving all His children, and not the ones you think are undeserving.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            chipper,
            you say there are many mis-translations by scholorly people yet we are supposed to believe that you or your translators got it right??? I prefer to stick with the King James version, thank you!

          • http://naver samurai

            Chipper, you must be pretty stupid to think that we’ll believe that God put Daniel into a “faggot” relationship. Why would he do that and then turn around and say that it’s wrong in his eyes? Sounds kind of hypocritical, liberal, dem, and atheist to me. Get you facts stright before you post or maybe God will strike you down where you are at.
            FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

  • James

    The Lord spoke unto Moses (Lev. 18:22): “Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.” “Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto it is confusion. Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things; for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you” (Lev. 18:23-24). “Therefore shall ye keep mine ordinance, that ye commit not any one of these abominable customs, which were committed before you, and that ye defile not yourselves therein; I am the Lord your God” (Lev. 18:30). Leviticus 20:13 made this abomination a capital offense.

    • Chipper

      Like Terry, who posted a comment before yours…

      Sorry, that’s the same OLD tired argument again. You’re judging others and not loving your neighbor as yourself. Please try again. Remember, as it says in the bible…”We’re ALL sinners”. So please, drop your (word removed for offensive content) finger pointing at others. STOP being a damn stone thrower and look at the one in the mirror!

      My you be blessed in the love of God!

      • Jana

        Yes Chipper, we all sin, but we repent and ask for forgiveness, and try to change our ways.

      • Bob from Socal

        Hello Chipper,

        You really do not seem to know your Bible. You should go back and study diligently to show yourself approved. You should not take certain scriptures out of context just to prove your point, but learn the whole counsel of God. Then you may see the folly of your argument. Before you can really understand the Bible you also must be “Born again”. The lessons to be learned are spiritual and can not be truly understood except through your spirit. You can not truly comprehend the nature of the teachings of the Bible unless you are shown these truths by the Holy Spirit. I encourage you to keep reading the Bible. God can still do miracles.

      • http://facebook dede

        Being gay is sick and those who except it are very sick. God made man and women with special body parts. And these special body parts were made for husband and wife. And if the married women and man would like to have children then the women can carry one and when the baby is born it is raised by parents (husband and wife). Has anyone noticed that putting your private parts where they were not made to be is wrong and sickening. Did you ever wonder how babies are made and who carries them? Not gay couples. The gays come up with all kinds of excuses that their pick on and we who do not like it are prejudice against them. No we are not prejudice, what your doing is completely wrong and sickening. Straight and simple. Also does everyone notice that when we know we are doing or excepting something wrong how confusing and screwed up people’s thinking and actions get? That is what is happening in the USA now. All the wrongs are being excepted, and the people who think normal are the weird ones or the prejudice ones.

        • Chipper

          What about all the straight people who engage in oral and anal sex? What about them? They’re not using their special parts like you say they should. What about straight couples who engage in the unnatural act of in vitro fertilization. They’re only supposed to use intercourse to achieve pregnancy, not a medical procedure. It’s clear then, that straight people are sick too. Wouldn’t you agree?

          • s c

            Chip, are you in the habit of being caught in public with your pants on the ground? If in vitro fertilization offends you, then have the integrity it takes to tell every lesbian woman in America that it’s IMMORAL. You DO know how lesbian women get PREGNANT, don’t you? It ain’t the birds and the bees, bubba. Can you do that, or are you too full of yourself to do the right thing?

          • http://naver samurai

            By the way you sound slipper, you must be a tea bagger. Is ————– your bedroom partner? Maybe both of them at once? Homosexuality, lesbianism, gay, etc., is an abomination in the eyes of GOD and is punishable with fire and brimstone. True, I’m a sinner and have done things I’m not proud of, but at least I know how things are supposed to be with no lib excuses. I also suggest that you quit misquoting the Bible and really sit down and study it hard. If you go to church, sit down with your pastor and have him tell you what’s going on. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

          • http://naver samurai

            Gays and straight people who do what you described and just as immoral as the other. Don’t know the road you’re walking down is dangerous and full of mines. One false step and KA-BOOM!

      • James

        Chipper, I wasn’t ‘judging’, I was passing along God’s Law. Leviticus 20:13 reads: “If a maan also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death: their blood shall be upon them.” Jesus said (Mt. 5:17-20: “Think not that I am come to destroy the law…I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven…For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.”
        Jesus forgave some sins, but He cautioned them to cease from sinning, and concerning capital offenses John wrote (1 John 5:16): “If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.”

    • Chipper

      Please read and learn….
      The background of Leviticus is important to understand. The people are being told not to act like the “pagans”. This is also the format Paul uses in Romans. “You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.” These words occur solely in the Holiness Code of Leviticus, a ritual manual for Israel’s priests. This prohibition of supposedly homosexual acts follows after the prohibition of the idolatrous sexuality of worshipping Molech, whose cult included male cult prostitutes and bestiality. Lev 18 is specifically designed to distinguish the Jews from the pagans who worshipped the multiple gods of fertility cults. It also is included with other Mosaic laws such as required killing kids who curse their parents, the death penalty for picking up sticks or doing other work on the Sabbath, and under the law, slave-beating was a protected legal right!

      From a Jewish prospective, the commandments given at Sinai, including those of Leviticus (in Hebrew Jews simply name a book after the first word that appears – “V’yikra” – which means “then he spoke”) were given to the Jewish people. Since they were only commanded to Jews, no one who is not Jewish need worry about obeying them. Judaism holds God taught basic laws to all humanity before Sinai (no murder, rape, etc), but that the more specific laws such as in Leviticus, apply only to Jews.

      Lev 20:13 is giving the penalties for the Lev 18:22 “abomination” or in the Hebrew “toevah” Unlike what the English translation implies, toevah did not usually signify something intrinsically evil, but something ritually unclean for Jews. Eating pork, shellfish, lobster, eating meat 3 days old, trimming beards, etc is just as much an “abomination”. It is used throughout the OT to designate those Jewish sins which involve ethnic contamination or idolatry. In many other OT verses it simply means idolatry. Lev 18 is specifically designed to distinguish the Jews from the pagans among whom they had been living. The prohibition of supposedly homosexual acts follows after the prohibition of idolatrous sexuality of worshipping Molech, whose cult included male cult prostitutes and bestiality.

      Chapter 20 begins with a prohibition of sexual idolatry almost identical with this, and like 18, its manifest purpose is to elaborate a system of ritual “cleanliness” whereby the Jews will be distinguished from neighboring peoples. This was also the interpretation given by later Jewish commentaries such as those of Maimonides. Boswell also references much Jewish historic discussion about the non practice of the death penalty which is also mandated for violating the Sabbath, cursing one’s parents and many infractions listed in the Talmud.

      • James

        Chipper, It’s true that the land Israelites were promised was occupied by people who were not under God’s Law, but they were destroyed for their sinful acts anyway. And let’s not forget Sodom and Gomorrah, they weren’t under God’s Law either.

        • Chipper

          James, please read the following. It may give you more of an understanding why Sodom and Gomorrah Had Nothing To Do About Homosexuality.

          Some teach that the sins of Sodom and Gomorrah was homosexual. This has no theological support. A careful look at scripture corrects such ignorance.

          Perhaps one of the most misleading term in English is the use of the word sodomy to describe anal penetration and/or male homosexuality. The mere fact of this linguistic development sealed in the minds of many English speaking people that Sodom was destroyed because of homosexuality. The Church’s false teaching on this issue is an abomination and travesty, not loving homosexuals that are unfairly condemned by this ignorance.

          God appeared to Abraham telling him that he and Sara would have a child and they were going to investigate the wickedness in Sodom & Gomorrah. Thinking God would destroy the cities, Abraham made a deal with God, that He would not destroy the cities if 10 righteous people could be found in Sodom where Abraham’s nephew Lot lived.

          God sends two angels to Sodom, where Abraham’s nephew, Lot, persuades the angels to stay at his home. Genesis 19 records that “all the people from every quarter” surround Lot’s house demanding “to know them”. It was common in those times to use violent and brutal rape as a way to humiliate and establish power over another, not unlike in some prison situations today. It is also done by heterosexual males which is very unnatural for them. This was part of the terrible acts of pederasty, the opposite of today’s loving homosexual natural relationships.

          Lot attempts to protect the visitors sent by God by offering his two virgin daughters to be raped. The people of Sodom refuse them and the angels render the crowd blind. Lot and his family are then rescued by the angels as the cities are destroyed.

          ALL of Sodom’s people participated in the assault on Lot’s house; in no culture has more than a small minority (7-10%) of the population been naturally homosexual. Therefore it can be assumed most of the violators were heterosexual. Lot’s offer to give his daughters suggests he knew the crowd had heterosexual interests – in fact offering young women for sexual hospitality was common. While it is unclear, even if homosexual rape was what the people were after it was do defile the strangers unnaturally

          between mostly heterosexual males against another heterosexual male as in pederasty. This rape attempt has nothing to do with loving, consenting homosexual love but was clearly not the reason for God’s destruction of Sodom.

          Homosexuality can not be called one of the sins of Sodom, Gomorrah or Gilbeah since it is not in any of the lists of their sins given in the O.T. Ezekiel 16:48-50 lists the specific sins of Sodom as pride, plenty, laziness, uncaring for needy, haughty and worshipping idols – which was an abomination – not homosexuality.

          Some try and see in the word “abomination”, a false reference to homosexual activity. This word translated abomination is to’ebah in Hebrew and is frequently found in the Old Testament. If one reads it in context every where it appears it is always connected with idolatry – never homosexuality. Just a few examples are in Deut 7:25-26 where it is the idol used in false worship, Proverbs 21:27 having to do with broader false worship etc. The people of Sodom were involved in idolatry.

          The attempts to stretch “abomination” to “unclean” acts in Leviticus as to mean homosexuality is just as false. That would mean that we would be just as justified to claim that the sin of Sodom was that of shellfish eating, beard trimming or that the sin of Sodom was menstruation on the part of the womenfolk for the same reason.

          • luvall

            Chipper,
            I would be very interested where you came by all this secret info…..seems on the same line as “The DaVinci Code” which even the History Channel debunked.
            But so what? From the beginning, there have been false prophets, teachers, and messiahs….. .
            As for the term “homosexual” I do believe(could be wrong) it is a new term, penned by psychologists around the late 1800′s so, of course, it wouldn’t have been used in earlier versions of the Bible.
            My NIV Bible only uses the term homosexual once, in ICor 6:9 which in the King James is rendered “…..nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind….” In Romans 1:24- 32 “…..God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use in that which is against nature: and likewise the men leaving the natural use of the woman,burned in their lust toward another: men with men, working that which is unseemly….KJV
            But to continue with your line of logic:
            David, Abraham, etc. committed adultery; Lot committed incest; David was guilty of setting Uriah up for murder, Moses for not trusting God was denied passage to the Promised Land…..with your reasoning all these should be ok/natural. You fail to realize or haven’t read the punishments they all endured for their sins. They were forgiven, though, when they repented but still had to pay the price….

            Jesus, when asked about divorce, went on to clarify in Matthew 19:3-9
            “….at the beginning the Creator made them male and female, and for this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh….what God has joined together, let man not separate.”….. Jesus talked many times about divorce and adultery in the New Testament.
            You seem to have overlooked all the chapters regarding the way husbands and wifes are to treat each other, etc., also.
            You, too, can be forgiven for it is true…we are all sinners.
            Heb 10:26-31 “If we deliverately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,…..

          • James

            Chipper, Leviticus 18:22 says men that “lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.” Leviticus 20:13 says “If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman” it’s a capital offense. Our crime of Sodomy is defined as “copulation with a member of the same sex, or with an animal.” Our crime of “Sodomy” got its name from that biblical account. When America was founded, all of the biblical sins were made misdemeanors or crimes in our laws. However in Lawrence v. Texas, the Supreme Court struck down our laws that criminalized sodomy, as violating one’s “liberty” in the Fourteenth Amendment. I personally believe they will have to answer to God for that.

  • crystal

    Choi is tired and a bore.

    • Chipper

      I agree. He’s probably tired from serving in the military to help protect America, just like all the other soldiers. It’s definitely a bore, fighting for something you believe. Are you tired and a bore as well?

    • J.Michael

      I’d be tired also,if I was carrying the weight of fighting for the protection of people who would just as soon stone me. I’d be bored constantly being persecuted for trying to get the same legal rights for those I love and want to be with. I’m condoning his decision to his liberty from persecution,God can sort it out later.

      • Tralphaz

        J.Michael, why is it that gays are always crying about equal rights? You have equal rights just like everyone else, the right to marry anyone you wish as long as they are of the opposite sex!

      • http://naver samurai

        Whhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaa! Would you like some chees to go with that wine?

  • JC

    Go ahead Dan Choi, fight for your right to be a “tax unit” in the eyes of the Federal Government. Now your partner’s assets can be confiscated in the event of a tax default or death…just like everyone else. Boy, some people don’t know when they’re already ahead of the game…

  • Tony

    I don’t have any religious objection to gays. Homosexual behavior is biologically not normal. Yes, it’s been around since the beginning of mankind itself, but it’s also been abnormal since the beginning of mankind, too. Down’s Syndrome is abnormal, and there are other physical and mental elements of men and women that are abnormal. These tend to make them non-conducive to a military career. These gay soldiers knew before they enlisted what the position of the Armed Forces regarding their sexuality was; turning it around in an attempt to make the military appear at fault is disingenuous.

    • James

      Tony, I agree with your general statements about homosexuality, but I was curious about your “I don’t have any religious objection to gays,” I’m assuming you have read the above biblical quotes on the subject. The Bible states that the Lord assisted in the destruction of nations that practiced such things, nations that hadn’t been informed by God of His law on the subject, then states such practices within Israel are to be capital offenses. That is, God wants them removed from His kingdom here. Is your lack of “religious objection to gays” based on ignorance of God’s Laws, or doubt that the Bible is the infallible word of God? I’m just curious.

  • jeff thomas

    why is it that gays feel the need to announce to the whole dam world that they are gay? I dont feel the urge to run around letting the world know im straight..what is it you want? special privilages? if you want the right to tell then the right to ask should apply too..

    • Jana

      jeff t,
      The sad thing that I have seen is most of the time you don’t have to ask. Gay men act differently. They try to act feminine and come across looking like fakes. Most women don’t act as prissy as some of these gay guys I see.

      I don’t care what they do or who they are, just act normal not uhhh oddly (notice I didn’t say queerly) But that has to be the reason they got that moniker

      • All In The Mind

        Your comment: “The sad thing that I have seen is most of the time you don’t have to ask. Gay men act differently. They try to act feminine and come across looking like fakes. Most women don’t act as prissy as some of these gay guys I see.”

        You’re probably saying what you did because of your perception of a very small percentage of gay men who camp it up or are a bit flaming. That’s only a stereotype, as with many people. The gay men I know are very masculine and there’s not a feminine bone in their body.

        Your comment: “I don’t care what they do or who they are, just act normal not uhhh oddly (notice I didn’t say queerly) But that has to be the reason they got that moniker”

        ‘Normal’ is the setting on a washing machine. Acting masculine, is another thing. I agree with you there.

        All the best to you!

        Al (a masculine man)

    • eddie47d

      Jeff; They don’t want special rights only equal rights and the same liberties you have.

      • Robin, Arcadia, IN

        eddie47d… What rights and liberties do gays not have that straight people do?

      • http://naver samurai

        They do, just can’t get married. It’s wrong in the eyes of GOD and of decent people.

        • All In The Mind

          Your comment: “They do, just can’t get married.”

          They can in other countries with an nonjudgmental, open society, such as Canada, and many European countries.

          “It’s wrong in the eyes of GOD and of decent people.”

          I believe you’re wrong. You can’t prove it. You’re presenting yourself as a bigoted, judgmental, and hateful individual!

          I hope you truly find God, as well as love and understanding in your heart.

          May the peace of God be with you.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            all in the mind, then let them go to those countries and get married!!!

          • http://naver samurai

            I’m not that way and you know it. I’ve served 20 years with the military and to tell you the truth, if there is someone in the unit that is gay, we have to protect the person till they get their discharge. If we didn’t, someone, don’t know who, would probably seek to cleanse the unit of the person (We know how that is done these days.). You sound like you are gay and have a gay lover. If you do, just don’t come up here. We have too many laws against you kind of immoral, unethical, and unclean lifestyle. I hope that you are the one who really finds God. Remember, you can’t say that you are a christian and live in rebellion to the Bible. Being gay is wrong in God’s eyes and you know it. You’re just blowing smoke and trying to make a scene. Go back to your sheappard Obama bin Laden. He’ll welcome you with open arms, or pants, whichever one you prefer.
            Rights, baaaaa! Marriage, baaaaa! Equality, baaaaa! Get off the same old record and get a life. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

        • You’re Wrong

          Since we all seem to quote the Bible to prove are points, me included, how come you’re not “loving your neighbor as yourself”? That one is actually a commandment. The rest is open to interpretation as a guideline how to live your life. You seem like an angry person with a narrow minded view. Besides, it’s not “United States of Samurai” it’s the “United State of America”.

          Your comment: “Just come on down from “Canada” and we’ll show you a good time here”. I appreciate the offer, but my wife doesn’t like me to play with men. I hope you find that special guy to have a “good time” with. They like a man in uniform I hear.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            you’re, wrong,
            Your wife’s just afraid He’ll lose you!!!

    • Bob from Socal

      Hello Jeff,

      The true reason for the fight is that this is a spiritual battle that is raging. There are spiritual forces behind the scenes that are pulling the strings. This is a fight that is against all that is true and righteous. This fight will not end until the end of the millenial reign of Christ, when Satan is cast into the lake of fire.

    • James

      Jeff T., I think they do that out of rebellion against God. They don’t feel guilty about what they are doing, and they see no reason to desist. But Leviticus 20:13 doesn’t say “they shall surely be put to death, unless they don’t feel guilty.” It just says “there blood shall be upon them.”
      In Texas, two police officers had a search warrant to search a house for illegal dope. When they were walking down the hall, a bedroom door was open, and inside one man was peforming oral sex on another man. This was in violation of Texas law, and they were arrested and charged with this crime. Every State in the Union had similar laws. However, at the U.S. Supreme Court (Lawrence v. Texas) the Court held that men have the right (under the “liberty” clause of the 14th Amendment) to do that, and struck all these laws down. We will learn why God made His law.

  • http://Verizon Bud G.

    The military is not a democracy as some believe. You do not have the same rights as a civilian. Discipline and cohesion are a necessity.

    I served 21 years in the U.S. Army and don’t see a problem with gays serving in the military unless it involves contact with the enemy. I saw gays freak out under this stress and almost was blown up by a dropped grenade in one instance. You couldn’t go into a bunker when the rockets and mortars rained in because you might get shot there. This can happen with a straight person as well but it seemed gays had a higher stress level. Any normal person has fear and I think this is an important factor when determining whether a person is capable of this stress. The military needs to address this and come up with a test to determine stress level because there are far too many veterans with psychological problems.

    I had a horrible time in basic training, a time that I will never forget as we were pushed to the limit and several soldiers went a.w.o.l as a result. The training proved very valuable though during the first attack which was the Tet offesnsive. My heartbeat rose but I maintained composure in a life or death encounter and to this day am thankful they pushed us so hard because it is contingent on survival. I know I could have killed a person without a blink of the eye after basic training and that is exactly what their goal was. Unfortunately, I don’t believe the soldier today is forced to undergo in your face training or run 6 miles in 95 degree weather with a 40 pound backpack and rifle held out in front of you the entire distance with one 5 minute break. Some will probably say this is over the top but I think it is very important to be mentally and physically prepared if you value your life.

    • http://facebook dede

      I was in the service, and it is very uncomfortable having a roommate who is gay. They watch you, they stalk the women, their very aggressive, and being around them is to much is uncomfortable. I know it is very wrong to be gay. I know I am a normal thinking human being. I teach my children you were born with a penis you are a male, don’t let anyone tell you different and that goes the same with my girls having a vagina (they are girls) Society, the government and whoever else wants to except being gay as normal is sick. My sister was gay and I saw how many of her friends acted. The kissing, the sex, the aggressiveness by two women or men is sickening, plain and simple. When excepting gays in the military, there are going to be big problems and lots of confusion. Just like what we have in the USA today. The wrong is right and the right is wrong.

      • James

        Dede, Well said, and I agree. U.S. law forbids homosexuals and gays to serve in the military services, but under the cover of “don’t ask don’t tell.” If it becomes known that a serviceman is homosexual, the law requires that he be discharged.

  • http://danparker57@msn.com Dan

    One thing I find interesting, is that some folks always confuse rights and privileges.
    Marriage is not a right, it is a privilege that is defined and regulated by the states. The federal Government has no dog in this fight, although some folks think the Federal Government should control all aspects of our lives.
    If you are gay and want to marry, move to one of the states that allow gay marriage and live happily ever after, or until the divorce, whichever comes first, but do not try to force your life style onto others.

  • s c

    To me, the gay issue (rights, privileges, etc.) is a non-topic. It is simply another way to try and get those who already have standards (standards that have been honored for hundreds or thousands of years) to lower those standards to make someone else happy. Note that politicians lead the way, always schtupping for easy votes.
    I am more concerned with what comes next. Namely, as things usually happen in America, it starts out with an opening here and an opening there, and eventually we’re expected to switch gears from basic acceptance to absolute acceptance. That smacks of the “big tent” scam. No, thanks.
    In the near future, in an attempt to combine religion with politics, EVERYTHING will will be pushed so every ‘unusual’ lifestyle you care to name will be declared OK. You name it, and Uncle Scam will tell us that we MUST accept it. No, thanks.
    It’s not my fault that Uncle Scam isn’t interested in having standards. I have a major problem with a mentality that confuses “rights” with ‘preferences.’ Uncle Scam needs to have his nose re-arranged. If you want to live in his big tent, go ahead, but keep the damned thing away from me.

    • Chipper

      Hi sc,
      Regarding my earlier comments to dede, how one uses their ‘special body parts’. There wasn’t a reply button to your comment. I wanted to explain myself. I totally understand why you said what you did. “Chip, are you in the habit of being caught in public with your pants on the ground?………etc”. I was purposely trying to sound as silly and ridiculous as dede’s comments were. In vitro fertilization doesn’t offend me in the least. In my experience, lesbians prefer it. I’m a man who’s married to a man. Small mindedness and lack of civility offends me.

      I wish you the best!

      • http://naver samurai

        Sorry, but your marriage isn’t legal, moral, or ethical. It’s not even a marriage accccceptable in the eyes of GOD. If you are gay, then you need to leave your partner and go back to church. A real one, not the gay church, which is not a real church at all. It’ll be the only true way for you not to burn for all eternity. Take it from a man who served 20 years with the army. They are not needed anywhere in or out of the military. Just get your tea bagging self of of this site. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

        • Chipper

          “Sorry, but your marriage isn’t legal, moral, or ethical”

          I’m an American citizen living in Canada. Marriage for everyone IS legal here, as well as other countries.

          “It’s not even a marriage acceptable in the eyes of GOD. If you are gay, then you need to leave your partner and go back to church.
          A real one, not the gay church, which is not a real church at all.”

          I feel God loves all his children and he loves me for loving others. I’ve never heard of a gay church. How do you know so much about them?

          “It’ll be the only true way for you not to burn for all eternity.”

          I believe in Jesus and through him I’ll have a great eternity.

          “Take it from a man who served 20 years with the army. They are not needed anywhere in or out of the military”

          There have always been gay people in the military. Even from the beginning. If the ones, straight or gay can’t do their job they shouldn’t be there.

          “Just get your tea bagging self of of this site. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!”

          First off, I don’t support the Tea Party. Second, that’s the one thing that’s great about America. We all have free speech. Including you, who shares their thoughts in a hateful way. That’s not very Christian of you. Try acting more like Jesus and less like yourself!

          God Bless you!

          • Viktor Leben

            Chipper,

            1 Corinthians ch 6 verse 9 – 10
            New International Version (©1984)
            Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

            New Living Translation (©2007)
            Don’t you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don’t fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality, or are thieves, or greedy people, or drunkards, or are abusive, or cheat people–none of these will inherit the Kingdom of God.

            English Standard Version (©2001)
            Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

            New American Standard Bible (©1995)
            Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.

            International Standard Version (©2008)
            You know that wicked people will not inherit the kingdom of God, don’t you? Stop deceiving yourselves! Sexually immoral people, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, homosexuals, thieves, greedy people, drunks, slanderers, and robbers will not inherit the kingdom of God.

          • http://?? Joe H.

            chipper??? Chipper??? No answer to the post above mine???

          • http://naver samurai

            You say you believe in God and Jesus? That’s good, but why are you going against what God and Jesus say in the Bible. I also have faith in them, but I also know that you have to do what it says in the Bible to the letter to get into heaven. Don’t forget, Hitler even believed in God and Jesus, but do you think he did what the Bible said to do? I knew a girl from my hometown who, at 16, got married to another girl of 19 in a “reformed” church. Needless to say they couldn’t get a marriage license, get any state benefits, told their marriage is illegal, and in a timespan of 2-3 days, the female pastor was taken to jail by the local police. Just come on down from “Canada” and we’ll show you a good time here.

          • http://naver samurai

            Tea bagging has nothing to do with the Tea Party, but it is a reference to living a gay lifestyle.

          • James

            Chipper, Paul wrote (Rom. 9:13): “As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.” Paul was refering to God’s hatred of Esau (Jacob’s twin brother) for marrying out of his race.

        • Chipper

          Samurai: I wasn’t familiar with the term – ‘tea bagging’ and I’m gay. I had to do a Google search to found out. How come you seem to know so much about what gay men do sexually? I find that VERY interesting. It seems the more you know about a subject the more you’re focusing on it. Since you’re so knowledgeable about man to man action; any other tips you could share with me?

          Thanks. You’re the best!

          • http://naver samurai

            Soory dude, but as my wife of 25 years will tell you I don’t swing that way. Just give your shemale wife a divorce and go back to church.

        • Chipper

          Your comments: “Soory dude, but as my wife of 25 years will tell you I don’t swing that way.”

          Maybe your wife can also tell you how to spell ‘SORRY’. Anyway, that’s a relief you don’t ‘swing that way’. First off, don’t flatter yourself, thinking that another man would even be interested is someone such as yourself. You’ve presented yourself as an arrogant, self-righteous, narrow-minded, judgmental, homophobic, condescending jerk. It’s sucks to be you!

          “Just give your shemale wife a divorce and go back to church.”

          Shemale?!? Really?!? Are you still in highschool?!? Grow up!
          After 17 happy years, I’m not going to fall into the same divorce crap that is tearing families apart. That’s what straight people do.
          God loves me just the way I am! Remember – “Jesus loves you. Everyone else thinks you’re an a**hole!”

          • http://naver samurai

            You are an arrogant fool! OK, so I’ll accept the fact I misspelled a word, OK, OK. You said that another man wouldn’t want to do anything with me? I what way are you insinuating? If it is what I think, I’m glad. I like women way too much to do that immoral lifestyle that is an abomination in God’s eyes. You’re right that God loves us, but he doesn’t like it when we do things different from his word the Bible (Different means sin). Being gay is a sin in the eyes of God. If you have a Bible, take it to church and talk to your pastor. Sorry, you shemale “wife” is no wife, just a man acting like a female. You may think certain things about me, well, I don’t care. Think what you want, but I’ll bet I have tons more friend than you do. This also includes counting countries outside the U.S. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

        • Chipper

          Your comment: “You are an arrogant fool!”
          NO, I’m a 52 year old man who a loving human being that is tired of self-righteous, know-it-all jerks like you who tell people how they should live their lives.

          Your comment: “OK, so I’ll accept the fact I misspelled a word, OK, OK. You said that another man wouldn’t want to do anything with me? I what way are you insinuating? If it is what I think, I’m glad. I like women way too much to do that immoral lifestyle that is an abomination in God’s eyes.”

          I think woman are wonderful. I have no attraction to them. I hope yours makes you very happy. I do not have an immoral lifestyle. I’m a contributing member of my community, I’m a masculine, hard working man. I’m honest, I’m loving, I’m respectful of others, I have manners (you do know what those are, right?). You’re assuming that my life is based on sex. DON’T! Having sex is NOT the my focus of my life.

          You’re comment: “You’re right that God loves us, but he doesn’t like it when we do things different from his word the Bible (Different means sin). Being gay is a sin in the eyes of God. If you have a Bible, take it to church and talk to your pastor.”

          Since it says we’re all sinners, then you an I are equal in God’s eyes.

          Your comment: “Sorry, your shemale “wife” is no wife, just a man acting like a female.”

          You’re right. He’s not my wife. He’s my husband. You’re assuming were feminine. Sorry. Far from it. If you met us on the street you’d never know.

          Your comment: “You may think certain things about me, well, I don’t care.”

          I think you’re probably a very good man, but you present yourself in such a negative way toward certain people.

          Your comment: “Think what you want, but I’ll bet I have tons more friend than you do.”

          Wow! You’re presenting yourself as such an arrogant ass! And an immature one at that. What are you? 12 years old? Why didn’t you add “nah nah nah nah nah nah”?

          Your comment: “This also includes counting countries outside the U.S.”
          Imagine that! I ALSO have friend around the world. That makes us even.

          Your comment: “FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!”
          Absolutely! Mine is America. So is yours.

          We’ll have to agree to disagree. I wish you no ill will. I wish you and your family all the best. Peace be with you!

  • Frank

    I find it ironic when Choi states, “Meanwhile, Choi has promised to push for a quick overturn of the law that bans openly homosexual individuals from serving in the military, telling CNN that “there are a lot of people who are suffering, and my oath, my commitment to them, doesn’t end.”

    How can anyone trust this guy again when he has already broken his oath, his commitment to the Constitution and the People of the United States?

    His actions are putting the lives of American Soldiers at risk because instead of the Brass concentrating of fighting the war on terror, they have to be distracted by this BS. Don’t care if you are gay or straight, keep it to yourself and don’t push your agenda on me or mine.

  • http://gmail i41

    Keep watering standrads down and then you have no standrads. The damn queers and steers of both sexes want play in the military, dress and act like the rest of the team. Unit coheseiveness is the most important, other wise there is a snafu every time. The feel good crap doesn’t cut it in the real world. This organism should feel blessed to get out with a honorable discharge, so shut and move out. Abnormal behavior doesn’t belong in the military in any form or shape. Go to some other country that takes that style of life, not here you squirrelly idoits. Onunmnutts and the marxist democrats use abnormal behavior and no standrads in every phase of society will destroy this country.

    • http://www.savelakeatitlan.org Duende

      I think what made this country great was it’s openes.. the ability to give up ones view point for the good of the whole (powerful states gave up some of their power to weaker states to create the union). You’re right that cohesion is important for a unit to work.. accepting all members for their talents and what they can bring to a situation is what will determine it’s success.. not a single minded adherence to an unchanging doctrine.. good generals are very flexible in their thinking.. always responding to the moment.. their not stuck in some dogma taught to them in West Point… they’re creating new ideas and will studied in a future class in West Point.
      The ARMY just discharged this gay Lieutenant.. a West Point graduate.. the best of the best (when it comes to the military). He’s fluent in Arabic (which our country needs)… and they got rid of him because some homophobe thinks that HE is sexually desirable to the Lieutenant.

      I’d just like to add that when it comes to cries of homosexuality I, like Shakespeare, think the lady doth protest to much. (if you like I can tell you why)

      • Just My Opinion

        It is so refreshing to have an intelligent, open-minded, point of view on these forums. I totally agree with you. Discharging the soldier was also a great waste of tax payers money that was invested in training him. It takes the sum of parts to make a whole. May your voice of reason continue shining bright!

        • http://www.SaveLakeAtitlan.org Duende

          Thanks JMO. I needed that :-)

        • James

          Just My Opinion, Choi was discharged because federal law forbids homosexuals in the military services. We are a nation of laws, not men. God’s Law never changes (Mt. 5:17-19).

  • jeff

    dude what you do in your life is your business and i can’t tell you how to live it.but you can’t expect everyone to like who and what you are.they are giving you an honorable discharge what is the big deal.atleast you were not killed or dissabled for life.no now you going to complain about everything.get over it.
    i say it like this if they want to be in the guards then let them if everyone don’t want to shower with whoever then don’t be mad about you want equality then when someone gets mad at you you can’t complain about it.were live our lives like we want but have a peoblem if someone don’t like what we do so we want to change laws to fit us.thats not right.also if you mess with a straight guy/girl and they knock the hell out of you don’t complain about it get up and go about your business.i am tired of everyone complaining about how its not fair this and that get over it.its called life.they didn’t hurt you by sending you home.

  • CJ

    s

  • samurai’s boyfriend

    I find the headline of the story very misleading. The story contains absolutely nothing about the “Fight For Marriage Equality”. It only discusses Lieutenant Dan Choi’s coming out, and defending other soldiers the right to do the same without discharge. The back and forth between the people on the forum about gay marriage has nothing to do with the story.

    • libertytrain

      I’m not sure why you’d play such a childish game – you had started to sound almost intelligent to me in your usual posting name.

      • Chipper

        I agree. It’s not my most mature of moments. When responding to some of the individuals on here I try my best in expressing my point of view in a respectful and nonjudgmental manner. Some are willing to have a friendly debate. Others, not so much. After a while, some people become so self-righteous and claiming to ‘know it all’ it becomes very disheartening, as well as irritating. I thought it might be fun to sound as ridiculous as the ones who present themselves in such a manner. I still find it interesting that the headline regarding the story ‘Discharged Gay Soldier Vows To Continue To Fight For Marriage Equality’ has nothing to do with the content of the story about Lieutenant Dan Choi being discharged. It says nothing about ‘Marriage Equality’. Oh well.
        That being said, my apologies.

        Cheers!

        • libertytrain

          Thank you for your reply. Whether I agree or disagree is not the issue.

      • Chipper

        Since there wasn’t a reply button on your later post….

        Ok, Ok. I’ll be myself. Stop being so clever and figuring me out! ;-)

        • libertytrain

          your style comes through though the name is changed.

          • Chipper

            I guess it would be nice if Government was as transparent as apparently I am. :-)

          • libertytrain

            chipper – don’t play poker.

  • samurai’s boyfriend

    I find the headline of the story very misleading. The story contains absolutely nothing about the “Fight For Marriage Equality”. It only discusses Lieutenant Dan Choi’s coming out, and defending other soldiers the right to do the same without discharge. The back and forth between the people on this forum about gay marriage has nothing to do with the story. It was probably done deliberately.

    • http://www.SaveLakeAtitlan.org Duende

      Your right. it never mentions anything about Marriage yet the first response to the article was about being opposed to gay marriage. I have an RSS feed to the group so I get about 10 emails with the subject and a one liner about a reply to the subject. Just the other day I jumped in on the discussion about the two young women who were dumped from a counseling program because they couldn’t and rightfully (for them) wouldn’t parrot the new paradigm in psychiatry that homosexuality is normal(which I happen to agree with even if I am uncomfortable with the whole mess at times). I hadn’t read the article except the headline but commented on anothers comment. I’m glad I didn’t put my foot to far in my mouth but the taste of toes was on my lips for a awhile.
      Peace
      Duende

    • http://naver Sook Cha

      I don’t know who you are, but do you have to repeat what you already said? Repitition shows redundancy. I know that this is not your name, so quit being very childish and immature. Why don’t you a real man and post your name? I came from Korea and we don’t like gays there either. We treat them as outcasts and have no desire to associate with them. They are even disowned by their families because of their dishonorable lifestyle.

      Another thing, childish one, I’m the samurai’s wife. You mess with my husband, you mess with the whole family. You understand me?
      미친놈! 무슨 말이냐?

      • samurai’s boyfriend

        You said –> I don’t know who you are, but do you have to repeat what you already said? Repitition shows redundancy.

        I know what ‘Repetition’ is, but not ‘Repitition’. Misspelling shows fault.

        You said –> I know that this is not your name, so quit being very childish and immature. Why don’t you be a real man and post your name?

        Is samurai you husband’s real name? If not, I guess he’s not real man either! Your husband must also quit being very childish and immature.

        You said –> I came from Korea and we don’t like gays there either. We treat them as outcasts and have no desire to associate with them. They are even disowned by their families because of their dishonorable lifestyle.

        Treating someone as an outcast just shows how you are against the teachings of Jesus. Jesus said “love thy neighbor as yourself”.

        You said –> Another thing, childish one, I’m the samurai’s wife.

        I hope that both of you are sharing a wonderful life together.

        You said –> You mess with my husband, you mess with the whole family. You understand me?

        Answer me this question: How am I messing with your husband by responding to the comments he is posting on this forum?!? Besides that, Sook Cha, you threatening tone will get you nowhere in life. However, a loving tone is looked on by God as a vitue.

        미친놈! 무슨 말이냐?

        Sorry. I don’t understand your native language.
        Since you’re such a good person, I’m sure that it is some God would approve of.

        May the peace of God be with you!

  • luvall

    Chipper,
    If you don’t believe in God or the Bible why should we believe your translation.
    My NIV states” ……over a hundred scholars working directly from the best available Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek texts……need for a new translation in contemporary English…..
    was transdenominational…..international participation…..
    So I guess the whole world was homophobic.

    • Chipper

      I very much respect your comment. You come across as an intelligent, non-judgmental, and reasonable individual. Many on here present themselves otherwise. I do believe in God. I also believe teachings in the Bible. I have spent a good amount of time researching and studying the Bible, it’s history, as well as the translations made since it origin. I believe, as with any ancient texts that facts and events can become misinterpreted in over 2,000 years.

      A perfect example is Mary Magdalene, whose reputation as a fallen woman originated not in the Bible but in a sixth-century sermon by Pope Gregory the Great. Not only is she misidentified as the repentant fallen prostitute of legend, meditating and levitating in a cave, but she was not necessarily even a notable sinner: Being possessed by “seven demons” that were exorcised by Jesus, which were illnesses not demons, she was arguably more victim than sinner. Pope Gregory the Great’s image of Mary as a prostitute was followed by many writers and artists until the 20th century. Even today the identification of Mary Magdalene as the adulteress is prolonged by various Christian and secular groups today. In such a manner, facts can get totally turned around when it fits one’s needs.

      • James

        Chipper, I agree that the Christianity of today hardly resembles the story in the Bible, but I fail to see how Leviticus 20:13 can be misrepresented, honestly, it simply means what it says. And Jesus said the Old Testament law will not change “one jot or one tittle” “Till heaven and earth pass” (Mt. 5:17-18).

  • luvall

    The New York Times argues that gay unions could significantly alter marriage norms. A new study of gay couples in San Francisco shows that half are “open,” meaning that partners consent to each other having sex with other people. The Times says that the prevalence of such relationships could “rewrite the traditional rules of matrimony” by showing straight couples that monogamy need not be a “central feature” of marriage and that sexually open relationships might “point the way for the survival of the institution.”

    Activist Michelangelo Signorile wrote that gays should “demand the right to marry not as a way of adhering to society’s moral codes but rather to debunk a myth and radically alter an archaic institution.”

    all sexual behavior – married heterosexual conduct, adulterous heterosexuality, bestiality, necrophilia, homosexuality, pedophilia, coprophilia, polyamory…ALL of it – is chosen behavior. No one is compelled into any sexual conduct. Even those who choose to abide by God’s design for sex within the confines of a married, monogamous, man/woman relationship, how, when and if they engage in sexual behavior, is a choice. It has nothing to do with unalterable, unchangeable, immutable characteristics.

    The ban that has existed from the infancy of the American military until today has not been on any group of people…it has been on the open practice of a chosen sexual behavior. Moreover, homosexuality is but one of many sexual practices that has been banned by the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Even attempts of heterosexual adultery are forbidden. Is that discriminatory against heterosexuals?

    We should be asking if the same reasons the military forbids men and women from sharing barracks (avoiding sexual aggression, harassment and counterproductive distractions) should not preclude the open acceptance of men having sex with men.

    • Chipper

      You’re great! A level headed person. As a person in a 17 year same sex marriage (thank you Canada) I don’t want to change anything more then having a legal civil union with one other consenting adult recognized by the entire country. The other changes that were mentioned would be going way too far. Maybe to make it simpler, all marriages would be performed in front a justice of the peace, with the couple and 2 witnesses, taking care of the legal stuff. Then, if the couple wanted to have their marriage blessed my God, they would have the wedding ceremony. Just a thought.

      Cheers!

      • http://naver samurai

        Gay marriages are an abomination in the eyes of God and are not acceptable to him . Read the Bible to find out where you are wrong.

        • samurai’s boyfriend

          Did anyone ever tell you just how cute your are when you’re being self-righteous and misinformed?

          • libertytrain

            You don’t have the courage to say this with your usual logon. Why is that?

        • Seriously?!?

          Your statement doesn’t really hold a lot of weight. You say “Gay marriages are an abomination in the eyes of God and are not acceptable to him”. Exactly what verse or verses in the Bible states that? You may be referring remotely to Leviticus. That of course was was meant for Jewish priests in the time it was written. Since I brought up Leviticus, do the any of the following Bible verses apply to you?

          • Leviticus 15:19 “And if a woman have an issue, and her issue in her flesh be blood, she shall be put apart seven days; and whosoever toucheth her shall be unclean until the even.” SHE’S ON HER PERIOD. BETTER NOT TOUCH HER!

          • Leviticus 21:20 states that you may not approach the altar of God if you have a defect in your sight. DO YOU WEAR GLASSES?

          • Leviticus 19:28 “You shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor tattoo any marks on you: I am the Lord.” I HOPE YOU DON’T HAVE ANY TATTOOS!

          • (Leviticus 11:10-12) And the hare, because it chews the cud but does not part the hoof, is unclean to you. And the pig, because it parts the hoof and is cloven-footed but does not chew the cud, is unclean to you. You shall not eat any of their flesh, and you shall not touch their carcasses; they are unclean to you. You shall may not eat the meat of lobsters, crabs, prawns, oysters or clams; they are unclean to you” BETTER NOT EAT ANY OF THAT YUMMY MEAT! AND DON’T TOUCH A FOOTBALL WITHOUT GLOVES!

          • Leviticus 19:27 “Shaving the sides of your head (being clean shaven) or disfiguring the edges of your beard (trimming) is also forbidden.” YOU BETTER HAVE A BEARD!

          • Leviticus 20:10 “If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife–with the wife of his neighbor–both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.” HAVE YOU OR ANY OF YOUR FRIENDS EVER CHEATED ON THEIR PARTNERS? THEY SHOULD BE PUT TO DEATH!

          • Leviticus 19:19 “Keep my decrees. Do not mate different kinds of cattle. “Do not plant your field with two kinds of seed.” “Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material.” BETTER NOT BE CROSS-BREEDING COWS. BETTER NOT BE PLANTING MORE THAN ONE KIND OF CROP IN THE SAME FIELD. BETTER NOT WERE ANY BLENDED FABRIC GARMENTS.

          • Luke 16:18 “Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.” ARE YOU MARRIED TO YOU FIRST WIFE? IF NOT, YOU’RE AN ADULTERER!

          You may want to start focusing on your own life and how to live it, and withhold telling others how to live theirs.

          • libertytrain

            oh just be yourself instead of inventing new names.

      • http://naver Sook Cha

        Gays marry in a church? If the pastor has the Holy Spirit in him, not political beliefs, he wouldn’t desecrate the church like that. I think you all need to see a psychiatrist for help.

        • All in your mind

          I believe most of the individuals on the forum are of sound mental health. A psychiatrist it’s necessary. To perform a marriage of two consenting adults is always left up to the discretion of the priest, pastor, or minister. Some do, some don’t. Who are we to judge?

          • James

            All in, Priests and pastors are bound by their State’s law just like other citizens. We have seen in Roe v. Wade and Lawrence v. Texas that the Supreme Court can rule against God and State laws.

    • Chipper

      I understand why there’s a ban on gay people in the military. I also understand the rules and regulations every member of the military should follow. It’s such a difficult issue. There are many people who want to be in the military, whatever sexual orientation, because they believe that America is a country worth fight for. They’re just that passionate about it. The ones that have sex on the brain all the time, straight or gay, shouldn’t be there in the first place. The ones that focus on their job and follow the rules of conduct to the letter should be allowed to stay.

  • luvall

    The latest data show that the number of people discharged from the U.S. military for homosexuality represents less than 1 percent of the total number of people discharged for all other reasons.

    For example, 634 soldiers were discharged in 2008 for homosexuality, according to the Defense Department. That 634 number is 0.337 percent of the 187,331 total discharges in 2008.

    That same year, 5,627 people were discharged for drugs; 3,817 for serious offenses; 4,555 for weight standards; 2,353 for pregnancy; and 2,574 for parenthood. In 2004 there were 669 soldiers discharged for homosexuality (0.314 percent) out of 212,405 discharged for other reasons. The numbers were similar for 2005, 2006 and 2007.

    In total, between 2004 and 2008, there were 3,284 soldiers discharged for homosexuality. Between 1994 and 2003, the number was 9,501. There currently are 2,475,967 people serving in the U.S. military.

    As the Center for Military Readiness reported, “The average percentage of discharges due to homosexuality during those 10 years [1993-2004], as calculated by the Department of Defense, was 0.37.”

  • luvall

    According to Joe Dallas (ex-gay and founder of Genesis Counseling) “We do well to resist and even denounce the acceptance of sexual perversion in our

    culture. We do better, though, when our pronouncements are companied by tangible and

    practical acts of love and service, and when they are free of hostility or sarcasm. Robert

    Dugan, former President of the National Association of Evangelicals, put it well:

    ‘”I have watched too many Christians display anger, animosity and even outright hatred

    toward their political ‘enemies.’ How could they be unaware of Jesus command to love

    their enemies? Not only is it right to treat people with love, but pragmatically, it works in

    the long run.”‘

  • http://www.tcscorner.com Mod Con

    According to studies, most of us are neither straight or gay, but somewhere in between. Unfortunately society is unaware of this, since the ones at the ends make all the noise. The church is basically ignorant about sexuality to begin with. They never have given a high priority to facts. The church has always been founded on belief, never truth. It is an unobjective, ununified organization. Ununified because it is primarily a religious body instead of a spiritual one. I see no legal reason for gays not to be married. As for the military, it’s their business.

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