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Did Climate Change Kill The Maya?

November 12, 2012 by  

Did Climate Change Kill The Maya?
PHOTOS.COM

Climate change may or may not be a consequence of man’s activity on the planet, but researchers have found that it has definitely played part in the demise of great civilizations of the past.

According to research from two University of California, Davis, scientists, decades of extreme weather were responsible in part for the dismantling of political culture and later the entire human population of ancient Maya civilization.

“Here you had an amazing state-level society that had created calendars, magnificent architecture, works of art, and was engaged in trade throughout Central America,” said UC Davis anthropology professor and co-author Bruce Winterhalder. “They were incredible craftspersons, proficient in agriculture, statesmanship and warfare — and within about 80 years, it fell completely apart.”

The researchers conducted extensive reviews of the inscriptions on monuments within the Maya Hieroglyphic Database Project to learn more about sociological patterns just before the Maya disappeared.

“Every one of these Maya monuments is political history,” said UC Davis Native American Language Center director and linguist Martha Macri, a specialist in Mayan hieroglyphs for three decades.

Each monument is inscribed with the date it was erected and dates of significant events, such as a ruler’s birthday or accession to power, as well as dates of some deaths, burials and major battles. In the years leading to the collapse, the Maya erected fewer and fewer monuments, according to the researchers.

In order to examine weather patterns to correspond with the information on the hieroglyphs, the researchers turned to stalagmite formations in a cave in Belize near key Maya population centers.

The researchers discovered by examining the political writings alongside precipitation records that:

Periods of high and increasing rainfall coincided with a rise in population and political centers between 300 and 660 AD. A climate reversal and drying trend between 660 and 1000 AD triggered political competition, increased warfare, overall sociopolitical instability, and finally, political collapse. This was followed by an extended drought between 1020 and 1100 AD that likely corresponded with crop failures, death, famine, migration and, ultimately, the collapse of the Maya population.

“It’s a cautionary tale about how fragile our political structure might be. Are we in danger the same way the Classic Maya were in danger? I don’t know. But I suspect that just before their rapid descent and disappearance, Maya political elites were quite confident about their achievements,” Winterhalder said of the findings.

Sam Rolley

Staff writer Sam Rolley began a career in journalism working for a small town newspaper while seeking a B.A. in English. After learning about many of the biases present in most modern newsrooms, Rolley became determined to find a position in journalism that would allow him to combat the unsavory image that the news industry has gained. He is dedicated to seeking the truth and exposing the lies disseminated by the mainstream media at the behest of their corporate masters, special interest groups and information gatekeepers.

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  • CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON

    THIS TOPIC IS THE REASON WHY Jill Stein, MD, OF THE GREEN PARTY EARNED LESS THAN HALF OF A PERCENT OF THE VOTE.

    HUMANS HAVE NO CONTROL OVER THE PHYSIOLOGICAL STATE OF EARTH. PEOPLE WHO TALK ABOUT THE IMPACT HUMANS HAVE ON CLIMATE CHANGE HAVE ALREADY BEEN SMOKING THAT LEGALIZED DOPE IN COLORADO.

    WHAT DOES THESE “SCI-FI FREAKS” WANT “EARTHLINGS” TO DO – STOP UTILIZING NON-RECYCLIBLE ITEMS? IN OTHER WORDS, STOP LIVING?

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000607110622 Michael Hertel

      We can produce now energy sources which will last many years and will not require much byway of additional fossil fuel imputs. Why should we wait, the technology is available and it will get cheaper if we start to really ramp-up use of alternative energy sources.

      • Dale left coast

        What would that “Energy” be? Its not Wind . . . nor is it Solar . . . so what is it?
        Nuclear would generate a great deal of clean electricity . . . by wind is killing 100′s of thousands of birds and bats world wide, costing 10 to 12 times more than conventional sources. Solar is great for the Motorhome or Cabin . . . but to power a modern industrial city you would have to cover the entire state with panels that only work when the sun is up.
        So tell us about this new energy . . . is it Dilithium Chystals that powered the Enterprise?

      • Bill

        Hi Michael,
        That is a great dream. I invest in green technology companies but the real story is not as rosy as you might think.

        The only way for green technology to be implemented in our daily lives is for it to be developed through our entrepenurial spirt of our private sector that this motivated by profit.

        In the government zeal to make us green, they have imposed such limitations on the private sector so as to make it not cost effective.

        The cost of manufacturing solar panels in this country is so high that most of the solar panels that we will be using will be manufactured in China.

        So, if we want to move towards creating new sources of alternate energy, we need to lift the chains off our own indutries so they can be competitive

      • 45caliber

        Michael:

        There is such an energy source available but it isn’t one you would suppose. It is nuclear. Bill Gates and his foiundation are considering it for towns in Africa that are isolated. Basically the reactor is sealed for life and buried. Water is used to flood it to manage the rate of production and to prevent any problem. The water is heated and the hot water is then run through a heat exchanger to recover the heat and the water is reused. The heat is then used to produce electricity. Each unit is supposed to generate about 1 megawatt of power – enough for a small town. Once every hundred years it would be dug up and the nuclear energy replaced. There was an excellent write-up on it in National Geographic months ago. Unfortunately, the utility companies don’t like ti because there is no excuse to charge inflated energy rates for the power.

    • 45caliber

      CHRISTOPHER:

      You are basically correct. I saw a report years ago by one of their people who was writing what he considered the “best” scenario for the future.

      He called for all humans (except “Greens”) to be placed in high rise builds where you would live, work and die without ever leaving it. All such complexes would be set in only a few locations with such towers being placed about twenty feet apart. All food was to be grown in hydroponic tanks in the building. He estimated that due to the rigid life-style that population would dwindle to a “manageable” level over time. High fences would be erected around the “cities” and no one would be allowed outside.

      No one EXCEPT “green people” selected by the “Green Party”. They would be given large ranch-style homes about the world along with vehicles, etc. They would be there to monitor the well-being of the world and insure no humans marred its surface. Since they would be “green” they could be depended upon to do very little to mar the world. They would be allowed to grow natural food for their supplies and to supply the “green” party members in the towers.

      How do you like that world?

      • CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON

        “45caliber,”

        NICE TO HEAR FROM YOU, SIR.

        I WATCHED THE TWO THIRD-PARTY DEBATES FEATURING Dr. Stein. SHE WAS TRYING TO MAKE THE CONNECTION THAT “GOING GREEN” WOULD HAVE A POSITIVE IMPACT ON OUR OVERALL HEALTH AND NUTRITIONAL INTAKE – SHE SOUNDED LIKE, A “NUT.”

        HUMANS HAVE NO CONTROL OVER THE LONGEVITY OF LIFE. SOME PEOPLE
        M-U-S-T WORK – IN ORDER TO SURVIVE – AT JOB LOCATIONS IN WHICH THEY BREATHE TOXIC AIR, ETC. THE NEWS MEDIA – INCLUDING, “Bob Livingston” – CONSTANTLY TELLS US IF WE EAT “THIS TYPE OF MEAT,” OR, “THAT VEGETABLE” OUR HEALTH WILL DETERIORATE. “That’s baloney!”

        WE WILL ALWAYS HAVE CURIOUS DISEASES WITH NO CURE [OR, AN EXPENSIVE CURE].

    • beacon007

      Coming soon to the world theater, FREE ENERGY. To bring you hope, Google up PESWIKI. This will all happen in the MAYAN NEW YEAR.—————————-

      REGARDS. GORD

  • Right Brain Thinker

    Christopher A-H again demonstrates the denial of science that is so characteristic of the mindless wing nuts of the right. He has once again displayed his irrelevancy to any real discussion that may follow.

    My opinion of Sam Rolley has risen considerably after reading this piece. In spite of his “may or may not be”, “responsible in part”, “might be”, and “I don’t know” qualifiers, Rolley has actually laid out some SCIENCE for us. He is to be commended for being so bold as to do so on this website. I eagerly await the charge of my old friends—the “half-starved junk yard dogs running out to the end of their chains” as they attack Rolley (and me now that I have dared to support him).

    Wake up, Christopher A-H. Jill got so few votes because Greens, unlike many on the far right, are smart enough to NOT waste a vote on a Perot, Paul or any third party candidate and thereby hurt their cause . So they voted for Obama. The “green” thing to do. Jill was out there to get some publicity for the green cause and succeeded. She is probably quite happy that the election went the way it did.

    And I’m glad to see that C-A-H seems to understand that the Earth has a “physiological state”. Too bad he is too blinded by his motivated reasoning to see that those who talk about “human impacts” are not dope-smokers but educated and rational folks who care about the future of the planet and ALL the things that live on it. Many are scientists and they are 100% CORRECT in what they say. Global warming and climate change IS occurring and they ARE being accelerated by man’s activities. PERIOD. END OF STORY.

    And that last sentence of C-A-H’s may be one of the “dumbest” things ever posted on this site. S-F Freaks? Recycling? What does recycling have to do with the FACT of anthropogenic global warming? Very little. Earthlings need to start living in the real world and, above all, start THINKING and ANALYZING FACTS rather than letting emotions and deeply and emotionally held (but dead wrong) beliefs rule us.

    PS YOUR CAPS LOCK IS ON

    • Robert Smith

      “Too bad he is too blinded by his motivated reasoning to see that those who talk about “human impacts” are not dope-smokers but educated and rational folks who care about the future of the planet and ALL the things that live on it.”

      Actually it is well known that Carl Sagan was a pot head. He was no slouch when it came to science.

      Wm. F. Buckly was also into pot.

      Let’s see what Newt did!

      Congressman Newt Gingrich co-introduced legislation to allow marijuana’s use as a medicine at the Federal level on September 16, 1981. On March 19, 1982 he wrote in the Journal of the American Medical Association, “We believe licensed physicians are competent to employ marijuana, and patients have a right to obtain marijuana legally, under medical supervision, from a regulated source. …Federal policies do not reflect a factual or balanced assessment of marijuana’s use as a medicant.”

      Gingrich admitted that he smoked marijuana when he was in college. He stated in 1995 article from The Economist, “That was a sign we were alive and in graduate school in that era.” One year later he attacked Clinton press secretary Mike McCurry for making the same admission, and charged without substantiation that one quarter of the White House staff used drugs. “See, when I smoked pot it was illegal, but not immoral. Now, it is illegal AND immoral. The law didn’t change, only the morality,” Gingrich said. “That’s why you get to go to jail and I don’t. Any questions?” Yeah, how can you be such a hypocrite?

      Source: Hilary Stout, Wall Street Journal; 8/8/96

      Rob

      • ChuckS

        I think that whatever medical benefits medial marijuana gives can be given by various alternative medications, without the bad effects of MJ. One alternative medicine guy has a list of 350 alternative remedies for cancer. What we really need is more attention to real alternative medications.

    • Deep Thinker

      Right Brain Thinker – The earth is going to do what the earth is going to do. You are to small and insignificant to change the earths future. Only GOD has that ability. Period. Learn to live with it.

      • GALT

        Not so deep, not so much thinking but very brief…..which is about the only thing good
        it has to offer…………and it allows me to even be more brief…………

        Through the past 800,000 years ( ice cores ) the highest level of CO2 was 280 ppm.
        It is now 100+ ppm higher. Carbon comes in 3 different forms ( isotopes ) 12, 13, & 14
        and they originate from certain sources and therefor represent certain percentages of
        the atmosphere………measuring the current percentages of each, of the 100+ ppm
        increase……..all of it is a MAN MADE contribution.

        http://www.skepticalscience.com/CO2-emissions-correlation-with-CO2-concentration.htm

        See also Global Weirdness Cimate Central for a more detailed breakdown of these isotopes

      • GALT
      • GALT

        http://www.climatecentral.org/videos/web_features/videosweb_featureswhat_we_know_for_sure/

        Video’s are available in these last two links for the “reading impaired” AKA
        “funtional illiterate “

      • Right Brain Thinker

        You are 100% correct, Deep T. The Earth WILL obey the laws of physics, biology, and chemistry that God set up in the beginning. SCIENCE has helped us understand those LAWS, which laws represent God’s will.

        SCIENCE has said that MAN is embarked on a path that may destroy the human race and many other (if not all) living things. The Earth will still be here when we are gone, although it may look more like Venus. It may be God’s will that giving US free will was an experiment—make the silly humans smart enough that they can [comment has been edited] up the whole planet and kill every living thing if they don’t make the right choices. He DOES, after all have a whole universe full of other planets on which humans may also exist. Maybe his game is to see how smart (or dumb) his various “humans” can be? (and it would be interesting to know if those other “humans” look like us and have a “Christ” and engage in similar religious “activities”—you know, kill Muslims in the name of Christ, and kill Christians in the name of Mohammed, or just be Buddhists and don’t kill anybody?)

        So be it if it happens to go badly. I will be long gone when it happens and therefore don’t have to learn to “live” with it. You are the one that needs to “learn”. Learn quite a bit more about how man, in his hubris, has seemingly gone against God in damaging God’s creation, the magnificence of the Earth and all its inhabitants, as well as gone against God’s laws that allowed it all to evolve over billions of years from a speck in an infinite universe. I’d also like to think that God would also consider it “Christian” for humans to show more charity to the Earth. Especially since it’s is the greed of the rich that drives global warming and we all know about rich folks, camels, eyes of needles, and getting into heaven, don.t we?

        Many comments have appeared on this site about how abortion, homosexuality, and socialism, etc are corrupting and defying the word of God—-that we are being punished for not dealing with those things according to God’s law.. Does anyone think that perhaps God is really punishing us way more for the willful damage that we are doing to the entire planet and 6.5 billion humans? I am basically anti-abortion—-my science background tells me that a fertilized egg of any species will progress through clearly defined stages until it is “born” and then will grow into whatever its genes dictate. I haven’t worked out just where “souls” and “human awareness” enter the scene but just to be safe, doing anything to terminate a fertilized human embryo at any stage does not sit well with me except under certain circumstances. I remain unconvinced that God considers abortion or gay “marriage” a bigger sin than slaughtering whales for profit or polluting our air and water and thereby causing illness and death for thousands of humans and uncounted other living things.

      • Maryland Freestater

        A (scientist) friend of mine said the whole Solar System is experiencing ‘global warming’. Global warming is caused by SOLAR activity, and while I can’t honestly say either way if man is warming up Sol 3, I CAN say for a fact that I remember the Ice Age that was predicted by the same fear-mongers back in the ’80s didn’t happen.

        Alternative energy – well, I think Mr. Tesla’s discovery and implementation of ambient – energy transduction into electricity is something that should be given a look at. It is well past time we stopped using fuels to power our lives if indeed there is a means of transducing one form of energy that we know little about onto another that we do (electricity).

        Problem is our culture needs to grow up, or at least become less greedy or power-mad (and money IS power). The idiocracy that is being foisted on us (intentionally or not) is one of the legs of doom that will help collapse our society. People have got to work and change our culture before we go the way of the Maya, Easter Islanders, etc…

      • GALT

        Well then you and your scientist friend are wrong……..

        and you are wrong about the ice age stuff also………I think the word you should use is
        “ignorance mongers”………so much ignorance…..and a monger here and there, to take
        advantage of it…….

        about the sun part…….

        http://www.skepticalscience.com/solar-activity-sunspots-global-warming-basic.htm

        as for the ice age stuff……..look around on the same site……

      • GALT

        On second thought since you probably won’t bother to look anyway….here’s your
        ice age mongering…..

        http://www.skepticalscience.com/ice-age-predictions-in-1970s.htm

    • TIME

      Dear RBT,

      We have what is called a “Magnetosphere” that is above the “Ionosphere” or the protective layer on the inside ~ and the Magnetosphere the outer layer.

      As we have been losing our magnitic North as well South poles as we are moving into the cycle of what is caled a “Pole Shift” this takes a goodly amount of TIME to complete its cycle.
      At this point in TIME we do not have the full protection of the “Magnetosphere” thus we have been having extreeme Heat, as well Cold depending on where you live and what season it is, as in be it ~ Northen or Southern Hemisphere.
      All of you should ~ Check in to the Gulf Stream not working as it should as well as its no normal working patterns and its effects, based on the above intel.

      Just a quick note on this cycle, we just started so its going to be hundreds of years to complete this event, you can find evdience of this daily, in what we call earth effect, such as Earth Quakes, Volcanoes, as well as odd effects like the gulf stream not working anylonger in its normal patterns, Massive fish kills, Massive bird kills, as well as many other natural events that are unfolding daily around the globe.
      I will say that Harp is not helping with this cycle, nor are the Chemtrails.

      Thus {Man nor carbon emissions made by man} have a net sum of “ZERO” effect on this cycle of events, as this is { NATURE or Natural } what ever one may so wish to alot such a title of this natural cycle.
      Thus Al Gore and his Quasi Science is just that ~ “Junk Science” and was fed to the worlds population rather than the TRUTH,

      Why?

      Well thats quite easy to grasp, its the Blame game so as to make massive profits off the blind mindless Sheep, who rather than study anything ~ they wish to be told what to think, what to do, as well how to respond and just pay an amount to fix something that can’t be fixed.
      Thus we have ~ “RULERS” who impose their will on the mass’s to gain their measure of ~ “TIME” As well profit from the ignorant fools who follow such mindless babbel.

      To understand the {words TRUE meaning} is to understand the games played by these “RULERS” who benifit as the mass’s lose yet again to these Criminals who use the ignorance of the sheep to their advantage. So ~ How about a carbon TAX anyone?

      To anyone still who thinks that a CARBON TAX ~ will stop the effects of the Magnetosphere’s loss of power, let me ask you if you are standing on a cliff thousands of feet high, ~ and a strong wind blows you off the noted cliff, will paying a tax stop this event from unfolding?

      The answer to anyone who still has any GRAY matter left is clearly ~ NO.
      It was an act of GOD ~ as in a natural event based on “PHYSICS”.
      Or perhaps better said is a {mathematical certainty.} Based on sound Logic and PHYSICS.

      In Conclusion ~
      “There is NO SUCH thing as {man made global warming”} ~ its just hat simple.

      Thank you all for your ~ TIME.

      Peace and Love be with you, Got your Bus ticket yet?
      The Christ is waiting ~ what will you do?

      • Right Brain Thinker

        What will I do, Time? What I wish YOU would do is get your FACTS straight and NOT try to confuse the issue with crap science you have picked up from some wing nut site or the bought-and-paid-for-by-the-oil-companies climate change deniers. First, if you want to have any credibility at all, you should NOT open an argument with something as off-base and just plain WRONG as your magnetosphere-ionosphere idiocy and talking about the protection they give the Earth. They DO protect us, but from somewhat different things and in different ways—you don’t seem to recognize what those “protections” are and get so far afield in trying to make something out of unrelated bits that you have lost touch with reality.

        Not to be giving science lessons here, but the magnetosphere is TOTALLY unrelated to the ionosphere. The term M-sphere refers to the patterns of ELECTROMAGNETIC FORCE that permeate the entire interior of the earth (within which it is generated). The M-sphere extends many thousands of miles beyond the uppermost edge of the ATMOSPHERE as well, of which the ionosphere is a part (along with stratosphere, etc). ATMOSPHERE and all its parts consists of MATTER—- molecules—O, N, CO2, H20, and more. Just because “sphere” is part of both names, it does NOT mean they are really related in any way except by their spherical SHAPES. .

        Time says:

        “In Conclusion ~
        There is NO SUCH thing as {man made global warming”} ~ its just that simple”.

        Blind, mindless, motivated reasoning on Time’s part with NO basis in fact or logic. Time WANTS to believe it so he just says it—-now it’s “truth” and he feels good about himself in spite of having propagated a lie—-it’s just that simple.

      • TIME

        Dear RBT,

        Wow, and you have the bloody nerve to talk about a wing nut’s ,

        Bro ~ look in your mirror, there you will find the real; { WING NUT. } With a mind full of quacky Quasi science,

        What I posted is “REAL SCIENCE” but as, you are a useful idiot, I can understand your inability to understand ~ anything based on LOGIC let alone sound Science.

        But then again its not all your fault, schools teach Humans to be BRAIN DEAD as I noted, so you just ~ follow what your told and be a good little useful idiot,
        Good on you Bro your learned to be a good little sheep that follows the orders of your MASTERS..
        Now you hurry up and go eat some more GMO’s and drink up lots of Floride water at least 8 glass’s per day, so the effects don’t fade..

        And while your at it, perhaps you should also eat some tooth paste so as to get a tad more floride – and don’t forget your floride mouth wash ~ but don’t spit it out, just drink up Bro.

        Peace and Love ~ :-)

      • Right Brain Thinker

        Thank you, Time. For once again proving my point about motivated reasoning. Your “doubling down” on your bad facts and faulty reasoning is EXACTLY what you are supposed to do to fit the scientific model and show how crippled your thinking has become. GO FIND A SCIENCE BOOK—even one written to be used in the indoctrination that is called home-schooling is likely to have gotten the magnetosphere-ionosphere business right—-face TRUTH and LEARN.

        You talk about “bloody nerve” and “quasi science” and tell me to “look in the mirror”? (why do I keep hearing that mirror bit?—maybe it comes from from those who can’t think of an intelligent rejoinder?). And “useful idiot” and LOGIC and SHEEP and MASTERS and GMO’s and the ever popular (in the 50′s, that is) FLUORIDE (correct spelling).

        WOW—-push a button on a “motivated reasoner” and he does a little dance for you and spouts all the usual meaningless crap—just like the little dancing dolls where you squeeze the hand?—but not as entertaining..

        And it IS partly my fault, Time. I spent a number of years in education, and taught some SCIENCE and THINKING and LOGIC along the way. I certainly didn’t have anyone like you in class, though—that would have been a challenge.

        Peace and Love ~ :-) You say? That has got to be an attempt at a joke on your part. I see very little peace and love (or intelligence) in anything you say. I need to go out and mow the lawn one last time—just because I’ll be off line for a while, don’t delude yourself that anything you’ve said has convinced me to abandon our lovely little exchange—as the Terminator said—-”I’ll be back”.

      • TIME

        Dear RBT,

        Science is for sure not your fortay, But on the other hand ~ my Little brother is a real ~ NASA Science Consultant ~ and he has been for well over 35 years now, As well been involved with the research on these issues I covered in my first post.

        Thus what I posted is what it is ~ again so perhaps you can even understand this ~ the Magnetosphere is very week in its cycle at this point in TIME
        { as in the protective sheild it offers is DOWN for repairs,}
        This problem will last many years ~ as in perhaps a few hundred ~ of what anyone can find this information in very short order.
        Again we are going into is what is called a Pole shift, thus we have a very WEEK magnitic field within the noted Magnetosphere. I hope I made that simple enough for you to understand.

        Again ~ this lacking full on shield exposes the suns radiation / heat in through the Ionosphere ~ where we have a number of LARGE holes in it, { no one knows if these holes are natural or not, } they have been there at least from the 1960 on that NASA has known about, So anyone who would suggect that these holes are man made is at best a fool,

        On the other hand other than a bit of plagiarism on your part ~ Of what I am sure you really didn’t mean. But then again original thinking is not restricted to the Right frontal lobe.

        { Excuse my misspelling,} but at least I am not buying a bag of old road apples as science. Also If you think that Fluoride is not a posion to HUMANS~ WOW, talk about being uninformed.

        Peace and Love

      • Right Brain Thinker

        You’re the fool, Time, if you think that an electromagnetic field can deflect infrared radiation ENERGY (heat) from the sun. That energy is what is trapped by the greenhouse gases and is the major cause of anthropogenic global warming. EMF’s do not have any effect whatsoever on the various types of energy.that strike the earth.

        What the M-sphere DOES protect us from to some extent is the charged PARTICLES in the solar wind. Did you listen to your little brother at all? If he really is a scientist, he would never have misled you this badly. And speaking about “holes”, are you familiar with the fact that “holes” in the ozone layer were caused by man-made CFC’s and the ban on CFC’s has allowed the ozone “holes” to shrink in size?

        You say that my forte is not science? May I suggest that your ignorance of things scientific disqualifies you from making such a judgment.

        PS Your “plagiarism” and “right frontal lobe” meanderings make no sense at all. When you figure out what you’re talking about there, let me know and I’ll try to respond.

    • Dale left coast

      “Christopher A-H again demonstrates the denial of science that is so characteristic of the mindless wing nuts of the right. He has once again displayed his irrelevancy to any real discussion that may follow.” . . . really ! ! !

      Why don’t you post that “Science” that Scientists “Believe” is causing Anthropogenic Gorebull Warming?
      Since Fake Climate Modelling induced Gorebull Warming stopped in 1998 . . . what do you suppose is going on? In the 20th century the temperature increased about 1 degree Celcius . . . in the last IPCC report . . . they projected the global temperature will increase about 1 degree Celcius in the 21st century . . . so the pattern is we have been warming slowly since the last ICE AGE ! ! ! But that may be turning around NOW . . . what will we do when the earth cools . . . will the federal govt subsidize Escalades?

      • Right Brain Thinker

        You need to do a bit more reading and get the facts straight, Dale. You need to know that there are RANGES for such things as temperature rise. You can’t pluck one number that may be the top or bottom of that range (chosen according to your politics) and throw it out there as if it meant something in isolation. You need to learn that the whole climate change-global warming thing is very complicated and there are many interrelated things going on, many of which we don’t fully understand yet because we haven’t got records or observations going very far back on some things. We needed computers and satellites before we could really get rolling and humans started pumping out the greenhouse gas back at the start of the industrial revolution, so we are behind.

        And a small hint from someone who doesn’t like to see folks damage their credibility. You may think it’s cute to talk about GoreBull and Escalades but that adds NOTHING to any actual argument you may put forth based on FACT and reason. Those on this site who also favor cuteness over substance will mindlessly go “Right on, Dale—you tell that commie”. Many others will ignore you because of it—you choose which way you’d like us to think of you

      • 45caliber

        Right Brain:

        In other words, you haven’t the slightest idea of how to answer Dale and have resorted to the fact that it is “too complicated to understand”. Well, for one like you, I suppose it is.

      • Right Brain Thinker

        45 Cal

        It’s enough that I have to give so many science lessons here without having to give reading lessons too. I gave Dale an answer that suggested he needed to learn more. I could write many dozens of pages here to give just a brief synopsis of our present understandings but feel no obligation to you or Dale to do so.

        Go get educated—read some books—James Hansen wrote some good ones. Visit some web sites. Be aware that there are “deniers” and “skeptics” out there—-they are few in number compared to the vast majority of scientists who believe AGW is occurring, but they make a lot of noise and cater to the left brain thinkers of the world who only want to hear what they already believe..

        Nowhere in my comment did I say that it was “too complicated to understand”. All I said was that it was complicated and we didn’t fully understand all of that.. For one like you, who obviously suffers from motivated reasoning, I suppose it IS hard to parse the meaning of what I said. Try again.

    • CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON

      “Right Brain Thinker,”

      “Wing nuts of the right” [I AM NOT ONE], VOTE. YOU ARE HAPPY BECAUSE YOUR SIDE WON.

      ANYONE WITH A “Brain” KNOWS PLANETS HAVE PHYSIOLOGICAL STATES. “Right Brain Thinker,” DISCUSSIONS ON “GREEN” WILL RETURN (AND, STAY) ON COLLEGE CAMPUSES IN 2017.

      • Right Brain Thinker

        If it makes you feel good, I will say I agree with you 100% (even though I have absolutely NO idea what you’re talking about).

      • CHRISTOPHER ALLEN HORTON

        “Right Brain Thinker,”

        “GOING GREEN” IS A YOUTH MOVEMENT FAVORED BY LIBERALS ON COLLEGE CAMPUSES. OLDER PEOPLE ARE NOT WORRIED ABOUT WHAT EARTH IS DOING.

      • Right Brain Thinker

        WHOA! I’m one of those “old people”—-I can remember FDR. And I’M WORRIED. Are you an “old people”—if so, speak for yourself and not for all of us.

  • eddie47d

    Like any great civilization they have peaks and enjoy the fruits of their labor. Sometimes too much and then they crash from being to comfortable in what they gained. The peaceful and prosperous Mayans let envy and “district” pride turn themselves into waring communities. You can’t maintain food production or building temples if someone else is out to get what you have. Climate change probably exacerbated the rising problems. When Spanish explorers attempted to land in Tulum Mexico in the 1500 hundreds there was still a fortified and active community.Yet most of the Mayan civilization was either gone or dying.

    • Bill

      Maybe those peaceful Mayans should not have practiced human sacrifice. Are you just making things up again Eddie 47?

      • Right Brain Thinker

        No, Bill. Eddie47 had to oversimplify things in boiling it all down to four sentences, but he didn’t make anything up. His only error is perhaps in using the word “probably” in referring to climate change The latest evidence points to long term droughts and the resulting lack of water resources as a root cause of the problems Eddie cites as causing the Mayan decline. Two big decades-long dry spells—a shorter one that created the initial instability and stress, a later longer one that did the permanent damage. The climate change back then that impacted the Maya was obviously unrelated to our present day anthropogenic global warming, but their saga SHOULD make us think about what’s happening today and where it may lead

        You are whistling past the graveyard.as you make jokes about human sacrifice and plastic bag bans. Good luck with that. The ghosts of AGW and climate change are too formidable to be deterred by glibness. You should run instead—run over to the side of nearly all the scientists and do what you can to reverse things. .

    • eddie47d

      Good morning snarky Bill. It was mainly the Aztecs who practiced human sacrifices not the Mayans although they too became violent in the later years. I have been to that part of Mexico many times and didn’t realize I had to make a book report to please you.

      • Bill

        Hi Eddie,
        I think I have decided to change my political affiliation. I am now a full fledged Liberal. Oh what a free feeling it is to know that I can do anything I want, no matter what the law says. It just makes sense to be one of the fleecers instead of one of the fleeced. I want all of my freebees without having to work for it and have those poor dumb conservatives pay for it all

        I have a great idea for my first business venture. I will form a 501 C-3 charity (so I will not have to pay any taxes) and start a Carbon Credits Brokerage. What a sweet deal!

        Out of 30,000 scientists, all I needed was 77 of them to say that man is causing all of the problems with anything weather related. Then I get the backing of the UN for this easy cash flow idea under the guise that we will make those big bad greedy capitalists to pay their fair share to those poor impoverished nations, knowing that the select few will be the only ones receiving any funds. Then we pay our local polititians to force all business’s to pay a carbon tax if they want to operate a business and buy more carbon credits if they want to expand.

        Genius!!! I am going to jump on the bandwagon and get rich like the rest of the globalists.

        Remember:
        If it it sunny outside, it is global warming
        If it is cloudy outside, it is global warming
        If it rains, it is global warming
        If it snows, it is global warming
        If it is a drought, it is global warming
        If it is flooding, it is global warming
        If my toenail grows the wrong way, it is global warming

        I even have the complete educational system and the news media convincing everyone that this is true and I do not have to pay them. Talk about the ultimate free advertising.

        Genius, Genius, why did I not think of this before.

        I feel so liberated, I think I will take off my clothes

      • eddie47d

        What does Bill,the Mayans ,the Communist Party and the Republican Party have in common. They either died off or dying from arrogant ignorance. Trying to be too smart for their own britches. A few are plain uppity in longing for the good ‘ol days instead of evolving.

      • Right Brain Thinker

        Eddie47

        Did you notice how Snarky Bill both changed the subject and doubled down on his snarkiness? (and I do love that word)

        Classic motivated reasoning behavior is displayed yet again. This site is a psychologist’s dream world.

  • Bill

    They probably did not survive because they did not have a carbon tax or carbon credits, an EPA and a plastic bag ban. Thank god we have those things in place so we will not go the way of the Maya

    • gunsrulecommiesdrool

      Bill, You are a funny man.I agree with you.Here in Colorado the weather can go from 30 below in winter to 100 above in summer and the world still goes on.So if the average temp goes up 7 degrees over 10 thousand million years thats less extreme than what we face right now.The world ending because of plant food(carbon dioxide)???? I don’t think so!

      • Bill

        I like your handle

      • 45caliber

        guns:

        You can understand where they come from if you consider where they start. To them, mankind is the most powerful force in existence. There is no God above us. And since we are god, then we can change the weather – good or bad – as we wish. However, since mankind is basically greedy, we will change it to the bad side unless the good side – them – can convince us otherwise … or at least let them rule those of us who aren’t as enlightened. If they can do that, they can correct all the evils of the world by controlling those of us who aren’t enlightened – and at the same time enjoy the priveleges they deny the rest of us since they deserve it and we don’t.

      • Right Brain Thinker

        Ten thousand million years? That’s 10 billion years and the scientific estimate of the age of the earth is around 4.5 billion. Some on this site who take the bible literally might say it’s only a few thousand years old but you’re more “off” on your numbers than they are. As for your “I don’t think so”, you should have stopped at “I don’t think”

  • brett

    regardless of whether or not we have a direct effect on climate does not change the fact that we are desecrating this beautiful planet god gave us. besides, it was a fiscal cliff that killed the maya!

    • Right Brain Thinker

      Do you really think that the Maya were dumb enough to walk off a fiscal cliff and destroy their society ? It appears that the left brain tea partiers may be.

  • Steve E

    I assume that since the Mayas did not have SUVs. The Climate Change was caused by too many of the population was eating beans.

    • GALT

      When you ASSUME you make an ASS of YOU and UMPTION.

      • Steve E

        You just did it without assuming.

      • GALT

        That made as much sense as your possible attempt at humor with your first try……
        wanna try for three?

      • Steve E

        You can’t make idiots laugh. Nor think either.

      • GALT

        So you finally learned something……and all that practicing in the mirror finally
        paid off for you.

      • Steve E

        I haven’t been able to look in the mirror ever since I voted for Jimmy Carter.

      • GALT

        History is never final, they keep improving the lenses……

      • BigBadJohn

        Steve, I haven’t been able to look in the mirror since I voted for GWB.

    • Right Brain Thinker

      You joke but bovine flatulence IS accepted as a quantifiable source of greenhouse gas, methane to be specific. Termites make a lot of it too. We might solve the cow problem by stuffing catalytic converters you know where but the termites may be harder to deal with.

  • Dale left coast

    “They were incredible craftspersons, proficient in agriculture, statesmanship and warfare — and within about 80 years, it fell completely apart.”
    What caused the demise? I believe they elected the O’s great-great-great-great grandfather to run the country . . . LOL

  • http://www.facebook.com/dan.mancuso.56 Dan Mancuso

    Man made global warming is a scam. It originated, probably, with the Club of Rome, or one of those other NWO entities. Because the MSM (another NWO entity) controls the dissemination of most information, the scientists who disagreed with the hugely ambiguous ‘scientific’ models weren’t heard from. Also, look at the pay and tenure structure of those ‘scientists’ esposing man made global warming. Also, look at the money that is stolen from each and every one of you and worse the loss of your right to choose, that is clearly revealed in a reading of Agenda 21 and it’s language, that is evident from the halls of federal power right down to local power structures and all comming from the UN (another NWO entity). The NWO is having such an easy time of leading us down the road to Totalitarian Global Fascism, and look at all their ignorant sheep helpers, even on this site, who support the idea of man made global warming. BTW, I am not saying that we as humans haven’t had a negative impact on this beautiful planet provided to us by God, by our disrespect for the Earth and ourselves. The immorality of littering should be harshly dealt with, litterers big and small, but ‘sustainability’ as it’s being sold to us is a bull [comment has been edited] weasel word!

  • 45caliber

    Actually the Mayans are still around. There is one working in my area that I know well. They simply didn’t have the level of civilization when the Spaniards showed up that they did earlier and the Spaniards basically stopped any further advancement they were doing by killing off any that tried. They were slaves of the Spaniards for about two centuries and were deliberately kept at a low level. But they still exist today. She is Mayan, not Mexican, and is proud of it. Don’t try calling her a Mexican unless you want a fight.

    • WIA Ben

      The most difficult thing for Mexicans and most latinos to say is “Soy Indio” ( I’m Indian ). They believe they are caucasian mostly Iberian Espanoles, most have been living in a state of denial. Mestizo they truly are.

  • BigBadJohn

    Global warming, is it man made? is it caused by sun spot activity? is it part of normal earth cycles? It really doesn’t matter but it is real.

    One thing to remember the Earth is a living breathing organism. When you get an infection, your body attacks it and gets rid of it. If mankind becomes an infection on the earths crust, earth will get rid of mankind. As a species we can sit around and argue about what the cause of global warming is, or we try to take precautions against becoming extinct. Because if we are the problem, the earth will get rid of us.

    • beacon007

      AMEN

    • Right Brain Thinker

      Bless you, BBJ. You understand!

  • Randy131

    The phrase “Climate Change’ has derived from the phrase ‘Global Warming’, when instead of the Earth’s yearly avearge temperature going up, started going down by a small percentage of a degree every year for the last 10 years, and the winters again started getting colder, as the snow fall also increased. The phrase was changed in order to try to salvage the postulated but unproven theory that man made carbon dioxide was causing a continuous warming of the Earth’s atmosphere and endangering the future of civilization through the threat of melting ice from the Earth’s poles and the rising oceans from that process, for which none has ever been proven to be true. But I do have another phrase to replace the false innuendo of ‘Climate Change’, and that is ‘Four Seasons’, (winter, spring, summer, and fall), true climate change, and done by the tilt of the Earth’s axis on the plane of the Earth’s orbit around the Sun. Amazing how small the tilt of the Earth’s axis is, compared to the huge distance of the orbit of the Earth around the Sun, maintaining a precise distantance from the Sun during that orbit, which people do not take into consideration or account, the extra gravitational pull the Earth may be exposed to by the alignment of other planets in our Solar System, to expand or contract Earth’s orbit and it’s distance from the Sun by more than the small tilt of the Earth’s axis, creating a short period in years of a climate change similar to that of our seasons. Does the alignment of the planets cause a gravitational line, causing a more intense gravitational pull by the Sun to all planets orbiting in that alignment, causing a slippage toward the Sun of the aligned planets’ orbits, for a short period of time, until they become unaligned again and resume their normal and historical orbits? My, how theories abound, if only we knew which were true and which were not? But since carbon dioxide in the atmosphere has more than doubled in the last ten years, and the Earth’s yearly average temperature has continuously decreased in that same time period, as well as glaciers and ice caps growing at the south pole, while sea ice melting at the north pole, I can safely assume that ‘Global Warming’ is bunk, and nothing but a scam to make those pushing it on the world, rich through the bartering of ‘Carbon Credits’, yet another phrase contributed to ‘Global Warming’.

    • Right Brain Thinker

      More disinformation from Randy. Where do you deniers get all this bum scoop? Lots of incorrect and misleading things here but the most egregious error is the statement that “carbon dioxide in the atmosphere has more than doubled in the last ten years”.

      If Randy cared to look for REAL data rather than things that support his motivated reasoning against the idea of AGW, he would discover the famous Keeling Curve, which is derived from observations made of CO2 concentrations on a mountaintop in Hawaii.

      Keeling has observed the CO2 levels for 50+ years from the late 1950′s until today. NO ONE, not even the skeptics and deniers, disputes his figures. What do his figures show?….a steady rise over that time from around 315 ppm to around 385 ppm today.

      For the math and truth impaired like Randy, that’s an increase of around 70 ppm, which is a 22% increase. Randy saying “CO2 has MORE than doubled in ten years” when it has only gone up by about one-fifth in over fifty years is the best example of “bunk” and lack of truth in Randy’s posting. What he stated is about TWENTY-FIVE times greater than what really happened. If it had really doubled over the last ten years it would now be somewhere around 740 ppm and we would most likely all be dead. We can “safely assume” that Randy really doesn’t know what he’s talking about.

  • Jimbo

    Have anyone else here noticed how the climatologists see every warmer than average day as proof of global warming, yet ignore completely the colder than average days? Artic ice may be melting, but Antarctic ice is increasing! The American southwest had a very hot summer, but Eastern Europe and Russia had a frigid winter. But that data is ignored. Data is “cherry picked” to support the theory of man made global warming.

    During the 80′s these same climatologists told us unless we did something about the “ozone hole”, millions of Australian children would die of skin cancer. They got the government to mandate a less efficient air conditioning refrigerant. That means our cars burn more gasoline, than they would have, dumping additional hydrocarbons into the atmosphere. They also replaced the Freon in our aerosol cans with CO2, which, being a much smaller molecule, leaks out long before the aerosol is expelled. Millions of un-emptied cans go to our landfills, where the contents poison our water supply. The additional CO2 and other hydrocarbons from the aerosol cans and our cars goes straight into the atmosphere. And these same scientists now blame that for “global warming”! The kicker? Years after the Kyoto mandates, other scientists discovered the ozone hole is a naturally occurring phenomenom which occurs every 50,000 years.

    AM radio reception has been very poor the past decade. It’s because the number of sunspots has been so low. Sunspots are associated with solar flares, which improve radio wave propagation on earth. Since sunspots are spots of lower temperature, a reduction in their number means more thermal radiation has been striking the earth during this period. I think it likely that this is having far greater effect on on our climate than mankind’s puny influences. If mankind thinks it can counteract the effects of our sun, it is sorely mistaken.

    Across the US people are now replacing incandescent bulbs with “energy efficient” fluorescents. Even this is a flawed idea. Incandescent energy is not lost. It is emitted as heat. Millions of people regularly sit under a warm incandescent rather than turn up the thermostat. With the increasing use of cold fluorescents, more people will be turning up the thermostat, and heating the entire room, rather than the area around their chair. How is that going to reduce our energy use? Fluorescents don’t start in cold temperatures. They don’t survive vibration or high temperatures in industrial applications. They’re loaded with toxic mercury. They’re made in China, and because of that we lose more US jobs.

    LED bulbs are even worse. They suffer the same shortcomings. Their manufacture requires dangerous chemicals. Spend $50 for a bulb that is (supposedly) going to last 10 years? Good luck getting it replaced when if fails before its energy savings recoup the purchase price! The company that made it might not still be in existence!

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