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Debating Reality

October 4, 2012 by  

Debating Reality

As you read my musings from Outside The Asylum today, keep in mind my deadline was Wednesday morning. I actually typed hours before Governor Mitt Romney and President Barack Obama were to meet in their first face-to-face gabfest of the 2012 Presidential election cycle. Therefore, I can’t wax rhapsodic about what (barring a spectacular flub by Romney or spectacularly honest remark by Obama) will probably be a Presidential debate that relates to the real troubles of the Nation about as well as first lady Michelle Obama does to people who work for a living.

So, I’ll guess instead. After all, if I’m miles off the mark, I can just do what Obama does and claim my perspective has “evolved.” Reality dictates that neither candidate will stride confidently into the hearts and minds of the 5 percent to 10 percent of eligible voters who have yet to make up their minds. Romney will mouth platitudes intended to assuage conservatives that he doesn’t represent a continuation of the super-statist policies that have turned the Obama Administration into the biggest electoral disaster since President Jimmy Carter lost the Battle of the Chattahoochee Bunny. Meanwhile, Obama will do what he always does: lie.

In a debate scheduled to focus primarily on domestic affairs (sorry, kids, we’ll have to wait until next time to hear Obama explain why he lied to the Nation and the world about the murders of four Americans in Libya), Obama will make a number of ridiculous claims that prove only that the best prevaricators really believe their lines.

• He’ll claim he’s a “job creator.” Nothing says “friend of the working man” like a record-breaking stretch of unemployment numbers on the north side of 8 percent (with real unemployment well into the double figures). He’ll also attack Romney and Bain Capital while carefully ignoring the fact that Bain saved hundreds of thousands of jobs by rescuing ailing corporations, including Obama’s own beloved Baskin-Robbins.

• He’ll claim to have “rescued” the American auto industry. As I was driving the other day, I passed by the vacant lot that used to house the local Cadillac dealership. I remember thinking “Good thing Obama saved… er… someone.” So what if the government takeover of General Motors became an 11-figure boondoggle? For just less than $100,000, you too can have the all-new Chevy Volt! At prices this good, how can you pass up the chance to be the first on your block to own an exploding golf cart? Actually, if you’re not one of the 47 percenters, you’ve already paid for one.

• He’ll crow about Obamacare. Now, instead of seeing a doctor, I might get to see someone who has watched all eight seasons of “House.” But I do enjoy knowing my tax dollars funded abortions and Sandra Fluke’s rather impressive birth control needs. Also: Death panels and rationed care! I’m thrilled.

• He’ll claim that he’s introduced meaningful immigration reform. He says “reform;” I say “bypassing the Constitutional Separation of Powers in order to grant amnesty to criminals through executive order.” That’s a long way from “potato/pot-ah-to.” We all know why Democrats want to grant free passes to illegals, and not it’s not just “because Paco does such a great job weatherproofing the teak on Senator Kerry’s yacht.” To be fair, Obama’s grant of amnesty might just have been his way of rescuing Mexicans from the narcoterrorists who wantonly murder people with guns they bought from… Obama (er… this is just awkward).

• And he’ll claim his has been the most transparent, least corrupt Administration in history. As long as you ignore “we’ll have to pass the bill so you can find out, uh, what is in it,” repeated violations of the Hatch Act, collusion between the White House and hate groups like the National Action Network and Media Matters, and pretty much every statement Accomplice General Eric Holder has made, it has been the least corrupt Administration in history.

Come to think of it, Romney doesn’t even need to show up. Democrats will listen to Obama do things to the truth that would cause the hearts of the most diabolical flimflam artists to flutter like teenage girls. And the “undecideds?” They still won’t have an opinion, because they missed the whole thing to watch reruns of “CSI.”

–Ben Crystal

Ben Crystal

is a 1993 graduate of Davidson College and has burned the better part of the last two decades getting over the damage done by modern-day higher education. He now lives in Savannah, Ga., where he has hosted an award-winning radio talk show and been featured as a political analyst for television. Currently a principal at Saltymoss Productions—a media company specializing in concept television and campaign production, speechwriting and media strategy—Ben has written numerous articles on the subjects of municipal authoritarianism, the economic fallacy of sin taxes and analyses of congressional abuses of power.

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  • Buster the Anatolian

    Good one Ben.

    • eddie47d

      There is no death panels or rationed care so what does that make him or even your princess Palin? The Independent Payment Advisory Board under Obamacare explicitly prohibits this board from rationing care or shifting costs.

      • moonbeam

        Sadly, you have fallen for another of your messiah’s lies. Indeed, healthcare rationing has already begun! I have seen and read the letter telling my friend, with multiple health issues, that she can only see a doctor twice per month now. That is called RATIONING.

      • eddie47d

        Private companies are still fully in charge until 2014 so your friend was “rationed” by a private company and not under the Affordable Healthcare Plan. So enough of your “messiah” gobbledygook!

      • nickkin

        With obozo’s track record of commie friends and influentials, we can only guess who would be on the panels…retiring car czars could apply.

    • Robert Smith

      Heny Ben… “Also: Death panels and rationed care! ”

      That pants on fire lie was burried a long time ago.

      When are extremists going to stop that big lie?

      The fact is that I would rather have folks who are indirectly held accountable at the voting booth (government employees) than some fat cat 1% corporat president wondering whether he’s going to have walnut or teak trim on his car at the espense of medicle care actually going to those who are paying for it.

      Rob

      • Doris

        HEy Rob, did you know that Ann Romney described Mitt as “cheap” on the Jay Leno show? She has also said he buys his jeans at Costco. Doesn’t sound like he’s driving a car with walnut or teak trim to me. Sounds like a financially repsonsible leader to me!

        • Deerinwater

          I guess you can see that way Doris. ~ but if you bother considering all that been said and all that been done, you will walk away with a different view about what Mitt is and what Mitt isn’t. ~ elevators for your cars?

          I really like Mitts wife ~ she is a lovey lady ~ and I wish for her the best ~

      • Mikey

        Robert, now I know you live in fantasy land….Government employees “accountable” ?

      • Bob

        Do you idiots not listen to the news? The Obama administration officials are now admiting the “Death Panels” Oh that’s right the main stream media does not report things that would look bad the ‘Big O’..!!

      • eddie47d

        Only in your dreams Bob so put down the vodka. The only death panels is the denying healthcare to American citizens and allowing them to die because they don’t have insurance. That’s the old private insurance companies and the Republican Party pushing that platform.

      • http://boblivingstonpl.wordpress.com Bob Livingston

        Dear Robert Smith,

        You write: “Heny Ben… ‘Also: Death panels and rationed care!’ That pants on fire (sic) lie was burried (sic) a long time ago.”

        Oops. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/17/opinion/health-care-reform-beyond-obamacare.html?smid=tw-share&_r=1&

        You write: “When are extremists going to stop that big lie?” Yes, when will you?

        Best wishes,
        Bob

      • cawmun cents

        Whats funny is that when a question of Obama’s integrity is raised,the leftists point out the other candidates faults instead of providing a substantial argument about the attributes of their own candidate.
        Bushbomb.
        Racecard.
        Pointing the finger of blame at the other guy.
        Bingo!
        They have no substantial argument to back their candidate.
        Their candidate has done nothing to merit a substantial argument.
        So they shift the emphasis of their diatribe to someone else.
        It’s all they have.
        Its all they know.
        Yet they boast of their prowess at it,as if it has great merit.
        Weaklings.
        Cheers!
        -CC.

      • eddie47d

        CC: Carterbomb,Clintonbomb ,Your own race cards,Blaming others! You know the routine that Conservatives pull.Are you threatening the other side with your weaknesses?

      • Robert Smith

        From Micky: “Robert, now I know you live in fantasy land….Government employees “accountable” ?”

        Indian phone “assistance” accountable when the read from a fat cat’s script?

        By definition a CORPORATION is supposed to make money at the expense of “customers.”

        Again, do you want a fat cat deciding your health insurance?

        Rob

      • Robert Smith

        From Bob: “The Obama administration officials are now admiting the “Death Panels”

        Really? Do you have a quote for that?

        Rob

    • Doris

      JOE SCARBOROUGH, HOST: Wait. So you’ve got a document where Barack Obama is saying we’ve got to cut Medicare $250 billion, which I think is responsible. But his campaign team is going out there every day saying, “Watch out. We’re not going to cut Medicare, but Mitt Romney is.” [NewsBusters.org]

      PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA, JULY 21, 2011: All the Democrats felt that for Democrats to join with Republicans in anything that could be painted as a Medicare cut when there was a huge difference between Democratic and Republican positions on Medicare generally was bad politics. It’s an untenable position to say we’re not going to do anything on Medicare and Medicaid when that’s one of the biggest drivers of our budget deficit.

  • Warrior

    Can you say, Stumblin and Fumblin to the finish line? I can hear trumpka now, “better rent some more buses”. Yep, the route is on! Ok trolls, look in your little red book for some inspirational message because your “leader” just took a “header”. And well deserved I might add. Check the repair shop, gotta get that teleprompter back fast.

    Oh well, maybe his sidekick “plugs” has a better story to tell. We’ll see.

    • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

      John King said it best: “Obama got spanked”!

      • Deerinwater

        “The $5 Trillion Tax Cut

        Mr. Obama and Mr. Romney repeatedly sparred over whether Mr. Romney has proposed a $5 trillion tax cut.

        It is true that Mr. Romney has proposed “revenue neutral” tax reform, meaning that he would not expand the deficit. However, he has proposed cutting all marginal tax rates by 20 percent — which would in and of itself cut tax revenue by $5 trillion.

        To make up that revenue, Mr. Romney has said he wants to clear out the underbrush of deductions and loopholes in the tax code. But he has not yet specified how he would do so.

        This week, in a television interview, Mr. Romney did shed some light — floating the idea of capping each household’s deductions at $17,000.

        “As an option, you could say everybody’s going to get up to a $17,000 deduction. And you could use your charitable deduction, your home mortgage deduction, or others, your health care deduction, and you can fill that bucket, if you will, that $17,000 bucket that way,” he said. “Higher-income people might have a lower number.”

        The deduction cap has the virtue of avoiding the tough negotiations over which tax expenditures to unwind. Many tax expenditures are highly popular, like the deduction for charitable giving. Moreover, many are important to the stability of the economy. Suddenly ending the home mortgage interest deduction, for instance, would threaten to destabilize the housing market.”

  • Karolyn

    I didn’t watch the whole debate, but I did not see Obama say any of those things. Maybe Ben should have checked to see what the subjects to be addressed were.

    • http://personaliberty.com Travis

      Obama did say he created around 5 million jobs. That was on CNN and FOX this morning. You can’t really count them when more then 5 million were lost. If you lose $1000 and then get $500 back at the casino can you actually tell your friends that you won $500?

      • rb

        You can if you’re a politician of any kind. Remember how they cut the budget and deficit? They claim a trillion in defecit reductions becuase they decided not to spend money they were going to. Not becuase they actually reduced spending by a trillion….noooooo…because they aren’t going to spend as much as they had planned. That’s exactly like losing $1,000 in Vegas but winning $500 and claiming a $500 win. That’s politics on both sides of the aisle!

      • Robert Smith

        Why don’t you count the jobs lost because of the recession triggered by Bush?

        We had prosperity and a surplus under Clinton. Bush took that away.

        It takes time to recover.

        “Trickle down” has failed.

        Rob

      • Mikey

        Yes, some of the problems may have been caused by Bush, but this isn’t about Bush, this is about Obama. Sure, Clinton balanced the budget, but Obama didn’t even try. He made it far worse than any president in history. So it seems that even though everything was Bush’s fault as you liberals like to claim, nothing was done to undo the problems. FAIL!

      • cawmun cents

        Smith drops a Bushbomb….go figure.
        Cheers!
        -CC.

    • http://boblivingstonpl.wordpress.com Bob Livingston

      Dear Karolyn,

      As Ben stated, his deadline required he submit his column prior to the debate. However, we just posted Wayne Allyn Root’s post-debate analysis here: http://personalliberty.com/2012/10/04/i-told-you-so-the-romney-landslide-begins/

      Best wishes,
      Bob

      • Alex

        This was very clearly pointed out at the beginning of Mr Crystal’s piece. Still. it seems kind of weird that the “Number 13-ranked Libertarian online journal” or whatever it is you earned would have a Wednesday morning deadline for the Thursday edition after such a monumental day. Seriously, this would have been inexcusable forty years ago when we set everything in lead type, drew photos and columns off the AP wires. A morning deadline on Wednesday for this edition is beyond inexcusable in today’s world…

        Again, though, I do appreciate the PLD, Mr Livingston, and feel that you allow those of us well to the Left of center a fair and generally untethered forum for our often ridiculed voices.

      • Karolyn

        I know that, Bob, but wasn’t everybody privy to what subjects would be covered? Why not stick to those subjects.

    • michiganminuteman

      Karolyn, you really should have watched the whole debate. I know you would have been so proud of your “god that walks among us” get his ass kicked all over that stage and he didn’t even cry. It became so obvious who the real leader is and who is just a commie, muslim poser.

  • JON

    Ben, have you been huffing paint again? I didn’t hear Obama say what you claimed.

    • Alex

      This was a pre-written hitpiece. He says so in his opening. Still, having a deadline of the morning before the debate is really silly, and doesn’t reflect too well on being the “Number 13 rated Libertarian on-line journal” or whatever it is. I guess Ben needs lots of time. I spent many years as a journalist–you work on your feet as much as your keyboard.

      • momo

        What paper did you work for…Pravda?

    • moonbeam

      Jon – your comprehension skills are sadly in a void. Ben wrote the piece BEFORE the debate, as CLEARLY stated from the beginning. You didn’t get the memo?

  • Rosco1776

    Gary Johnson, google him!

    • Robert Smith

      Why?

      If he isn’t important enough for you to offer some information and tell others to do your work for you…

      BTW, why should such a far out candidate be relevant?

      Rob

      • TML

        Being a “far out candidate” is a relative perspective in itself.

        If you were to Google Gary Johnson I think you would find that the top results concern letting Gary Johnson participate in the debates.

        Gary Johnson’s relevance is in his opposing stances concerning the more direct issues of the country which surround foreign policy, waning personal liberties, and economic factors such as the Federal Reserve, which neither of the two on stage last night would touch.

        Every possible candidate is relevant. Voices should be heard through those that best represent their views, not stifled because they don’t sing to the same tune, or declared irrelevant for lack of polling numbers – essentially disallowing them to achieve those numbers without corporate financing.

        There needs to be another voice on the stage against the twins.

        “Without debate, without criticism, no Administration and no country can succeed–and no republic can survive.” – John F Kennedy

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        Superb statement, TML!!!

      • deerinwater

        Excellent TML ~ I love your message ~ bring it! let’s hear it!

      • Robert Smith

        “bring it! let’s hear it!”

        Yup, please answer the question, ” Why is he relevant.”

        SHOW us what he offers that is different.

        Rob

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        GERRY’S TRACT RECORD.

        OVERALL ACCOMPLISHMENTS:

        Left office with New Mexico as one of the only four states in the country with a balanced budget.

        Left New Mexico with a budget surplus.

        Used Line Item Veto thousands of times to trim the budget.

        Vetoed 750 bills during his time in office; more than all other governors combined.

        Cut over 1,200 government jobs without firing anyone.

        Created more than 20,000 new jobs.

        First New Mexico Governor to challenge education status quo and propose statewide voucher program.

        Restored State General Fund reserves to more than $222 million from a low of $28.1 million.

        Limited annual state budget growth to 5.0% during eight years in office.

        Cut taxes 14 times while never raising them—a first for New Mexico.

        Vetoed 32% of the total number of bills submitted for his signature.

        MORE SPECIFICS ON GARRY’S TRACK RECORD:
        http://www.garyjohnson2012.com/record

        GARRY’S POSITION ON THE ISSUES:
        http://www.garyjohnson2012.com/front

      • TML

        “Yup, please answer the question, ” Why is he relevant.””

        I already answered that question…

        “SHOW us what he offers that is different.”

        … and the entire point was to allow him on stage so he could tell you himself.

  • Dana

    Karolyn and Jon, did you read his opening? His deadline was Wednesday morning – before the debate, so he guessed at what might happen. Fortunately, Romney SCHOOOOOOOOOLED OBAMA and we get to read his commentary tomorrow morning!

    • Deerinwater

      Yes he did! Romney taught Obama that bad math is better then out right telling a lie on national television and it sounded convincing to people had have not done the math.

      Mitt had studied well and on his game. The same skilled used to sell off business that had been stripped of their assets and sold to people that took Romney at his word only to go bankrupt months later.

      I see how he did it now.

      Only now does Obama actually understand his opponent salesmanship skills.

      • Doris

        Deerinwater, you’re more like Deerinheadlights. Obama can’t hold a candle to Mitt Romney, and it showed in his performance last night. Romney exposed the empty suit and there is no doubt America will trust Romney’s math over Obama’s – give me a break.

      • dan

        Spot on , Deerinwater….I hadn’t been able to put my finger on the reason that I felt like I was being conned….same feeling you get with any of the LDS whackjobs

      • Robert Smith

        “there is no doubt America will trust Romney’s math over Obama’s ”

        And will get so screwed for it, just like Romney did to so many.

        Look at the track record of exporting jobs, screwing people, and etch-a-sketch tell ‘em what will get a vote.

        Rob

      • moonbeam

        Robert Smith writes –

        “Look at the track record of exporting jobs, screwing people, and etch-a-sketch tell ‘em what will get a vote.”

        Do you REALLY want to talk about track records? BO’s is absolutely abysmal. Do you still want to talk about track records?

      • Robert Smith

        Question asked: “Do you REALLY want to talk about track records? ”

        Yes. Romney has exported jobs and smashed companies. Can you deny that?

        Rob

      • michiganminuteman

        You libs are so testy when you get your commie asses kicked. Obumbler was so intimidated by Romney he couldn’t even look at him, it showed the real measure of BHO and he is a poser muslim who has always been insulated from this kind of test. Man tha twas fun to watch!

        • Deerinwater

          Fuzzy math is fuzzy math ~ regardless who employs it. ~ This overwhelming desire to be as crass and ugly as possible is indicative of uneducated turncoat Dixiecrat’s that think they are conservative Republicans.

  • coffeedrinker

    This piece was written hours before the debate to meet the deadline. Read the beginning again.

    • eddie47d

      But why? Was this like betting on a football game and hoping your team wins before the game. Did he think he would get a slam dunk and just threw “facts” out there no matter if there was any truth to them. Sure Bain saved a few jobs but they also caused thousands to lose their jobs. That is a casino economy that Bain deployed and a ponzi scheme. Whether a company won or lost Bain would always win and hardly a badge of honor.

      • momo

        Where’s Flashy? In mourning?

  • GiveMeLiberty

    Karolyn, Jon….please get with your nearest Bureau of Education Office and have your public school reading comprehension level tested.

    Ben used the entire first paragraph to preface the fact he wrote this BEFORE the debate and then used the first sentence of the second paragraph to reaffirm the first paragraph….geesh! Are you huffing paint or just attended public schools?

  • Alex

    You have to give Round One to Mitt Romney. Without question, really.

    President Obama looked unprepared and ill-at-ease. Confused a bit at times. I hate to use
    a tired sports cliche here, but I don’t know how else to react to what was a clear 10-8 round for the Mormon Mauler. Not a knockout, for sure, but the President was behind from the get-go times and left at the after the bell on his corner stool, dazed and gasping for breath.

    Not that Romney was anything spectacular; Obama was just plain smacked-down, was not much competition for the challenger.

    Without a stunning reversal in the weeks to come, Mitt Romney will probably earn a split, at worst, in the next two debates. The problem that might catch up with him is that he really didn’t say anything. But he didn’t have to, as lost as the President appeared. Still,
    much of the public realizes that he offers no more, at this point, then the general appeal to traditional American values—the kinds of things that resonate with an near-sighted
    audience. That was Ronald Reagan’s strength—-no one really seemed to mind if he
    misstated facts or outright lied, so long as he played the matinee figure and spoke in the kind of unexamined platitudes the general public slurps up. While I have not read the debate transcripts yet, it seems, on reflection, that the President offered more in the way of ACTUAL numbers, where Romney did not.

    Mitt Romney will no doubt get a big boost in the polls, and should he score any more big
    points in the next two debates may well take the popular vote in November.

    I never thought I would say this, but thank God for the Electoral College…

    • Alex

      Should not read “times” after ‘get-go…and–oh, wow—MORE! I really needed to proof this one before I hit ‘send”–guess the debate really shook me. Apologies.

      • michiganminuteman

        It’s OK Alex, we understand how hard it must have been to realize just how lacking your commie, muslim poser is compared to someone who actually has presidential attributes.

    • Doris

      Alex, your opinion of Romney will change once you have watched the debate. You’re listening to the media. Romney had a FIRM handle on numbers that MADE SENSE. It was obvious Obama was on constant recall of what he was programmed to say. Give Mitt a chance to pick him apart and Obama crumbles. It’s called “incompetence.”

      • Alex

        Like I say, thank God for the Electoral College…

      • eddie47d

        Ms Doris both Obama and Romney failed on the debt reduction issue. All their numbers are bogus and simply not factual. Romney still refuses to say which tax breaks he will eliminate to help bring the debt down. In reality any tax breaks taken away adds more burden to an individual or business. In this case I think he’s pulling a Pelosi where we’ll have to elect him (Romney) to see what’s in his package.

    • Robert Smith

      “Not a knockout, for sure, but the President was behind from the get-go times and left at the after the bell on his corner stool, dazed and gasping for breath.”

      Ever hear of “rope-a-dope”? Go Rocky and Go Obama!

      Oh, and I’ll bet Obama was busy being President along the way. You don’t want a part-time one, do you?

      Rob

      • Patriot1776

        “Oh, and I’ll bet Obama was busy being President along the way. You don’t want a part-time one, do you?” – No, that’s why I’m voting obama out.

        He didn’t have time to meet with world leaders or even his own security council while the consulate in Libya was being attacked, he had to make his appearances on Letterman and hang out with Beyonce. His schedule was to busy to discuss Iran’s possesion of nuclear bombs with Netnyahu, he an important engagement on “The View”.

        Now he didn’t have time to prepare for the debate, he was to busy being president?

      • momo

        You got the dope part right.

      • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

        It is no secret that Obama has a profound distaste for the “Mormon brawler/mauler”, but was advised by his camp to put such feelings aside and focus rather on key issues such as were discussed. After the debate, the Obama camp unanimously agreed that that was clearly the wrong strategy, and rather than foster and encourage a civilized debate, Obama should have gone for the mormon’s jugular. After all, who would have thought, that the mormon brawler/mauler would come out slicing and dicing from the set go; aren’t mormon’s supposed to be nice people? Lol…

    • moonbeam

      “Obama was just plain smacked-down” YEP! Just like a hard bitch slap or sucker punch. I almost felt sorry for BO being called out like that. Pitifully embarrassing.

      • deerinwater

        Well Moombeam, certainly not his finest moment ~ some are suggesting Obama did not allow enough time to adjust to the thin air, allowing only a few hours while Mitt had being in Denver for days. ~ who knows for sure ~ but there was little fight in our dog, that we know.

        Why Denver or North Caroline for that matter ?~ I say ~ Kansas! right in the big middle of the US and more stable weather and much less to distract. ~ Kansas could use both the money and the national attention.

    • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

      Alex says: Mormon Mauler. ROFLMAO! Can i use that one, Alex?

      • Alex

        Of course.

  • rb

    The debate was extremely successful for Romney. It was interestesting that when the President was called on the facts that he didn’t have a response. Of course facts never really meant anything to the voting public but they were laid out there for everyone to see. The most unfortunate fact that was brought out last night was what so many have been disturbed about with this choice of candidates. We have Obama or Obama light. (ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE!) No real truly constitutional abiding alternative. That wouldn’t work for the status quo elitists to have someone who actually will do something to restore this country to it’s Constitutional roots.
    Unfortunately I fear a Romney win in November would do nothing more for this country than pad the pockets of the extremely wealth elitists just as the Obama administration has done. Even more disconcerting is that it would most definitely pave the way for a Hilary Clinton presidency in four more years. Now that is something to be afraid of!

    • Nan

      rb, your statement about Romney doing nothing more than padding the pockets of the wealthy elitists is a bit too cynical. C’mon! He knows how to create and support businesses and has pledged to soften regulations on start-ups. Just by repealing Obamatax, he will create more jobs and free up paralyzed business owners. The US is a center-right country and Romney is a Center-right candidate. A good match in my opinion.

      • Robert Smith

        “Just by repealing Obamatax, he will create more jobs and free up paralyzed business owners. ”

        Tell us Nan, be specific… What is the Obama tax?

        BTW, I know what the Bush tax CUTS are for the 1% and how they’ve driven this economy into a huge hole.

        The “tax cuts” have had their chance. It’s time for common sense.

        Rob

      • Patriot1776

        Rob, FYI, Bush hasn’t been President for 4 years. The current occupant of the White House/Chief Campaigner had 2 years of democrat controlled Congress, yet failed to repeal the “Bush” tax cuts. The hole that we are in was significantly deepend by the clown that threw 700 billion tax dollars away as “stimulus”. There has been no effort from the current President to reduce government spending or do anything to fill in the hole that he inherited. He has stiffled job growth through the increased restriction and regulations under his EPA. He prevented the oil pipeline from being built. He shoved obamacare through Congress against the wishes of the majority of Americans and the long term effect that that has had on killing the economy won’t be known for years.

      • deerinwater

        Hmm? ~ Center Right? ~~ you can call someone that if it describes or explains something. Mitt Romney is a Predatory Capitalism and would do well for himself under most all governments and conditions but as far as leading a nation of people , I have serious reservations that it would turn out well for the average Joe that just wants to work, mind his own business and raise a family without interference.

        Mitt Romney is a salesman, ~ much like myself but I do not use “Fuzzy Math” to sell my products while clearly Mitt Romney does.

    • deerinwater

      Well, ~ Wild Bill summed it up best. The GOP is basically saying ~ W and the GOP has make a huge mess and Obama is not cleaning it up fast enough so we should put GOP leadership back in to clean up what they started. ( but what the GOP would do, is accept a “win” as a mandate that they are what Americans want, continuing with business as usual)

      While I tend to believe neither candidate is acknowledging the elephant in the room.

      http://hedricksmith.com/timeline-who-stole-the-american-dream/

      http://www.booktv.org/Program/10869/End+the+Fed.aspx

      We are being systematically milked dry and turned into little more then “Cash Cows” by the Mitt Romney’s of the world as Obama doesn’t seems to be willing too or understand how to openly address predatory capitalism head on.

      This notion that in order to win, someone must lose flies in the face of my understanding of business principals. Where did notions of equatable, and mutually fair exchange go?????

      In order for business to thrive and be robust there needs to be Win/ Win transactions where all parties share in prosperity and honor their commitment to the transaction. This is not happening as far too many Lions prow the waterholes of commerce and we go thirsty rather then chance taking a drink and be mauled for our thirst.

      • phideaux

        “… and Obama is not cleaning it up fast enough…”

        No, they are saying obama has done nothing that even starts to improve things.

        • Deerinwater

          “…” No, they are saying obama has done nothing that even starts to improve things”

          Right! they are saying that as well.

          That we/ the USA managed to avert and avoid a worldwide economic collapse is offered “Zero” consideration.

          That the same people that say such things would offer 43′s administration credit for what ‘did not happen’, there being no second 9-11 attack become somewhat short sighted when it comes to 44′s administration and what O managed to avoid.

    • eddie47d

      Romney had learned long ago how to pad his own pocket and will always do what is best for himself. Showing concern for others is generally a last minute thought for most wealthy persons and they usually don’t show it until they are ready to go into the afterlife. I give the Mormon Church a B+ for running a tight ship and being financially wise but on other issues (social) they may only receive a D- . Romney is known to give to his church but only as an economic investment to make more money not as a statement of faith.

      • michiganminuteman

        Eddie thats the problem you libs have. You never could tell the differance between a man of substance and just another a$$ wipe that wants to build his voter base by giving them money he stoll from a person that is an actual producer. anyone that votes for that p.o.s. oblama has the same “Fast and Furious” blood on their hands as eric holder and obumbler and that is what would be called an “inconviniant fact”.

      • eddie47d

        Are you and individual man or are you dependent on those wealthy to do your bidding? Keep bowing down to your financial masters and enjoy the ruins they have also dumped on our economy. What part of dishonest don’t you understand about how Romney received his tidy sum of wealth. Being slick in the financial world only means…well that you are slick. You build your wealth by shafting others.

  • Dwight Mann

    Øbama = FAIL
    FBO

    • deerinwater

      Agree ~ they both did as far as I’m concern, left to play out in the court of public opinion. While I’d enjoy seeing the the “Fact Checkers” have a field day with the many statement made over the 90 minutes , I seriously doubt of many will care if the candidates played fast & loose with the hard realities being discussed.

  • Steve E

    Romney wiped the floor with Obama’s butt last night. Even MSNBC was whining about how bad Obama was. See this: http://www.theblaze.com/stories/what-was-romney-doing-he-was-winning-angry-chris-matthews-unloads-on-obama-post-debate/

    • eddie47d

      TML below is more correct and although Romney was more on game he hardly “wiped the floor” but he did get a boost. Obama was definitely asleep at the wheel and “could of” whomped on Romney. That is his loss and disappointing to Democrats. There were 18 Independents in Denver who watched and reviewed the debate and none came to a solid conclusion in who won or if they could be sure who they would vote for. The debate was stale and Obama fell flat on the first segment and barely moved the needle up in last nights performance. If this was a paying event I’d ask for my money back.

      • michiganminuteman

        Eddie, if your boy could have” womped” Mitt……….why didn’t he? Fact is, if he could have….he would have. Simple as that.

      • eddie47d

        I reckon that is a mystery the Democrats will have to live with. Romney is up 2% after the debates and Obama indeed was slow on the draw. Actually Obama’s facts were more spot on but he didn’t put any fire into his answers. Its almost like he was either bored or had to take a dump.LOL

  • TML

    I think both of them sucked. I don’t think there was much of debate because there’s not much difference between the two, and as I figured, wasn’t much worth watching without a voice like Gary Johnson’s to bring up the more critical issues of foreign policy and personal liberty encroachment, along with the failed economic elephant in the room that didn’t get any lip service at all (the Federal Reserve).

    But to the question regarding the role of government in the United States, I actually liked Obama’s answer better than Romney’s. Whereas Romney immediately tried to wrap himself in the Constitution saying the role of government was to protect such document… despite the fact that he has openly and unambiguously said he would have signed the NDAA as well… and began appealing to the religious crowd; Obama’s answer (“to keep the people safe”), while not as eloquent, was closer to what you might have heard from Thomas Jefferson (“The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others”). I think Obama’s answer was more honest, while Romney’s answer seems to be merely an appeal to religious conservatives.

    • Doris

      Such utter bull*hit! Obama’s so-called foreign policy, or lack thereof, recently led to the brutal rape and death of Christopher Stevens, our Libyan Ambassador! Even worse, Obama and his inept administration ignored the pleas of Ambassador Stevens as he feared for his life leading up to the killing! Stunningly, 4 hours after Ambassador Stevens’ death, three additional SEALS were killed when we had TROOPS AN HOUR AWAY! Had Obama acted with any competence at all, everyone of those lives would have been spared. SHAME ON YOU AND SHAME ON OBAMA! He’s NO Thomas Jefferson so forgive me if I don’t buy into your stupidity! Romney rocked that house and heads are turning!!

      • eddie47d

        Granted this Consulate should have been better prepared but where is the proof that Stevens was raped Doris? The first news report on that issue was false and all the other reporters picked up on it. The Associated Press retracted it immediately after it was posted. The story grew legs so are you going to believe those media outlets without solid proof of your own. Will you keep screaming rape long after the fact or does it just sound so enticing you are making it real. There were 30 Consulate personel so are you concerned about their survival or strictly focused on your own sensationalism.

      • TML

        Shame? I have nothing to be ashamed about. I clearly stated that both of them sucked, lol.

        I only said Obama’s answer to the role of government was better than Romney’s, and closer to being something we might have heard from Thomas Jefferson (and gave my example)… not at all implying that he is anything like Thomas Jefferson as a whole.

        You ramble on about foreign policy when I had actually expressed disfavor that foreign policy wasn’t even really debated. But since you brought it up, there’s no indication that Romney would have been much better in such a situation. In fact, he would have also hypocritically supported the rebels of Libya in overthrowing a sovereign, only to have those same rebels attack the Embassy. Obama and Romney both hold foreign policies which are not the legitimate role of government; although I do think Romney might be much more dangerous in that area with imperialist ideas of peace through strength (an ideological fallacy) and an unwavering desire perpetuate the war machine across the world.

        I will say however, that with the unrest that followed Gaddafi’s overthrow, by ‘terrorists’ aided by the United States, it was very foolish indeed to leave those inhabiting the embassy without military protection for our own, but feel the better solution should have been to remove those from the Embassy.

    • michiganminuteman

      Another dillusional idiot

      • eddie47d

        Since you are such a cleaver little name caller maybe you are one of those “nifty” and foolish Hutaree militia members. Your boys aren’t any smarter than a 5th grader and I was being kind.

  • http://liberty Tony

    To Everyone:
    Here, this was the worst debate i ever saw last night. Mitt the “Twit” Romneystein lied his butt off and Obama was in a comatose state. I think it’s time to vote for Gary Johnson-Libertarian candidate. Just my take. Thanks!!

    • nickkin

      you libertarians talk about liberty but voted for a marxist who sees redistribution as a way of life and you see it as a free give-away to survive.

      • michiganminuteman

        nice nickkin, right down the middle!

  • Chris

    I thought Romney and Obama handled the debate very well in that they were both “gentlemanly” about it……….they both showed “class”, which was very refreshing to see. What I didn’t like about Romney was his constant smiling as Obama was talking and I took it to be a sign of smugness. Yes, Romney sounded “gung-ho” and good, but so did Obama before he became President which caused so many who voted for him to be so hopeful that he would fix things. Therefore, all we can do is “hope” again for what we are hearing.

    • Karolyn

      Very good point about Romney’s stupid smile.

      • deerinwater

        Here is what he was smiling about ;

        “The charge that Mr. Obama took $716 billion from Medicare recipients to pay for “Obamacare” has several problems — not least the fact that Mr. Romney’s running mate, Representative Paul D. Ryan, included the identical savings in his budget plans that House Republicans voted for in the past two years.

        Mr. Obama did not cut benefits by $716 billion over 10 years as part of his 2010 health care law; rather, he reduced Medicare reimbursements to health care providers, chiefly insurance companies and drug manufacturers. And the law gave Medicare recipients more generous benefits for prescription drugs and free preventive care like mammograms.

        According to nonpartisan analysts, it is Mr. Romney who would both cut benefits and add costs for beneficiaries if he restored the $716 billion in reductions. Restoring higher payments to insurers and other companies would in turn increase Medicare premiums because beneficiaries share in Medicare’s total cost. Marilyn Moon, a vice president at the American Institutes for Research, has calculated that a Medicare recipient’s out-of-pocket expenses would increase $577 a year on average by 2022.

        Also, the Obama reductions added eight years to the life of Medicare’s financially troubled trust fund, to 2024, according to Medicare trustees. If the cuts were restored, the insolvency date would revert to 2016.”

      • nickkin

        Hey Karolyn…did you notice the Obama smirks…..did you also notice the evil eye of moooshell……oh wait. I forgot. They were at 5000 Ft. above sea level and that overtook their demeaner……but they should be used to it…..they always think that they are 5000 ft. above everyone else because they are the elPresidente and the first lady. Phonies !!

  • Bill

    Robert Smith refers to the “recession triggered by Bush” . I would be embarrassed to show such ignorance in front of people that know the facts. It is like the old saying “If you keep your mouth shut they just think you are stupid, If you open your mouth, they know you are stupid”.

    • deerinwater

      It depends on if you are looking at the long view or short view Bill. Robert Smith has made a fair statement and it is up to you to discredit it without resorting to personal attacks.

      Do you think that is possible? I see W’s 8 year tenure as much more then just a trigger in the short view while the long view ~ most certainly.

  • Strighttothepoint!!!!!

    Good Debate-Romney Won by a landslide!!!!!O-DUD-o, the NUTTA,was left in the dust!!!VOTE ROMNEY 2012!!!!!!

  • Mike

    Eastwood was RIGHT!
    The chair really is empty!

  • cawmun cents

    Democrats obviously cannot comprehend that their candidate got his clock cleaned in the first debate.
    They live in the utopian dreamworld that pervades their sense of character and integrity.
    So what is their line of defense?
    Point the finger of blame elsewhere.
    This goes to show you that no matter how much evidence is produced to the contrary,they prefer their utopian dreamworld to reality,just as a drug addict prtefers the high to reality.
    I am a neither nor,an either or,and yet I can comprehend the level of debate which occured.
    Romney was ready and presented his case with efficiency,and Obama did not.
    End of story.
    Anyone who watched the debate and did not get that is too amazingly stupid to continue debating the matter further.
    -CC.

    • Deerinwater

      “Democrats obviously cannot comprehend that their candidate got his clock cleaned in the first debate. ”

      Well? ~ it was bad enough without the need for embellishment.

      Obama will have to learn to somehow deal with Mitt’s “fuzzy math”.

      Mitt and O are not looking at the same sheet of music as Mitt appears to see a few trillion gained by closing some loopholes. O does not see it. ~ leaving each of us to decide who it correct if being correct actually matters.

      • michiganminuteman

        Bho is not about leaving anybody to decide their own fate. He is clearly more of a dictator kind of guy. If he gets a second try he will destroy this country! He and his benafactors (Soros) hate this United States of America.

    • http://gravatar.com/bychoosing Jay

      No question about it, CC; Mitt was certainly fired-up, effervescent, quick on the draw, and rather imposing. But you shouldn’t let all the fluff and theatrics detract from the fact that ol Mitt works for the same corporate-bankster-gangster-elites that presently employ Dumbo!

      • cawmun cents

        I am among the first to make that claim here on PLD.
        But thanks for backing me up on it.
        Yes I have always known that Brand A is Brand A,and Brand B is Brand A……..
        Cheers!
        -CC.

      • Alex

        cawmun cents–Way to blow your horn! Are you some sort of grand political visionary? Once the debate was complete, the internet was abuzz with people—a GREAT many on the Left, conceding victory to Mitt the Vulture Capitalist. I, for my own part, was laying the wood to President Obama before the closing arguments. You saw nothing, really, that was not clear to any rational debate follower.

  • L.J.G

    When I watched the debate I saw and heard Romney say some pretty specific things.
    One was about S.S. and medicare, the focus he put on the table was the fact that cutting
    716 billion dollars was not the right answer (may or not be true).
    Romney was commanding the facts and Obama was trying to keep up with stories of his Grandmother.
    Some people here have somewhat condemned Romney for smiling while Obama was speaking I saw Obama doing the same thing back at Romney (whoopyyyy).

    What I saw was Romney talking straight to Obama. Obama was speaking to the camera, the audience, and the host, seemed to me Obama was avoiding eye contact with Romney , again whoopyyy.

    One of the things that struck me though was when Obama said Romney wanted to put 8 trillion dollars back into our military (implying that we should not) I thought after what just happened in Libya and around the world “shouldn’t we ???”

    I also thought Romney spoke simply and slowly so that Liberals could understand.(no offense).

    “Obama tries to take advantage of peoples lack of understanding in the difference between a profit and a profit margin”(eloquently stated by Herman Cain).

    Another thing I noticed is that Obama was trying to run out the clock with babble, while
    Romney was trying to drive the the hard questions and answers.

    • Doris

      I like Mitt Romney’s smile. I think it stems from the gentleman in him.

      • L.J.G

        I think Mitt Romney is a very classy looking guy. I believe he is also a man of integrity. I also believe he handled the debate like a well educated gentleman.
        I like his smile,too!
        (some will be frothing at the mouth)

  • roger

    lets see, drones = death panel. coming to a medical center near you, maybe?

  • s c

    On one point alone [Obummer's continued use of exec orders to BYPASS Kongress and ignore the Constitution], NO ONE in the military should have any reason to vote for the Putz-in-Chief. If you will recall, when Gore ran against GB, Gore tried to stop military votes from being counted. Are we supposed to think that Obummer won’t pull a similar stunt?
    Power to the PEOPLE. SUPPORT for the military (and bring them HOME), and O U T with Obummer and Motormouth Joe!

    • TML

      “On one point alone [Obummer's continued use of exec orders to BYPASS Kongress and ignore the Constitution],”

      Hasn’t nearly every President since Lincoln done that exact same thing? (Rhetorical)

      I highly doubt you will be seeing the troops brought home under Romney (or Obama for that matter).

      We actually had our chance, as Ron Paul had more contributions and support from our troops than either Romney or Obama combined. But we didn’t support the the troops on that.

      • Buster the Anatolian

        Here is a little something I found concerning executive orders. i have not checked it for accuracy.

        Teddy Roosevelt 3
        Others to FDR NONE
        FDR 11 in 16 years
        Truman 5 in 7 years
        Ike 2 in 8 years
        Kennedy 4 in 3 years
        LBJ 4 in 5 years
        Nixon 1 in 6 years
        Ford 3 in 2 years
        Carter 3 in 4 years
        Reagan 5 in 8 years
        Bush 3 in 4 years
        Clinton 15 in 8 years
        George W. Bush 62 in 8 years
        Obama 923 in 3 1/2 years!
        If you don’t get the implications you’re not paying attention. How many warnings do you need?
        Read the brief list of some of his Executive Orders near the bottom of this email.
        923 Executive Orders in 40 Months
        During my lifetime, All Presidents have issued Executive Orders, for reasons
        that vary, some more than others.

        When a President issued as many as 30 Ex. Orders during a term in Office,
        people thought there was something Amiss.
        WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT 923 EX. ORDERS IN ONE PART OF ONE TERM
        ??????

      • TML

        Your numbers are exceedingly inaccurate.

        http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/executive_orders.php?year=1826&Submit=DISPLAY

        Take the time

  • Walter Fisher

    Romney did an outstanding job in the debate last night. If I was to score the debate, I would give Romney 13 points and Obama 2.

    • nickkin

      Walter….giving obozo a 2……would that be only counting his ears?

      • deerinwater

        “Doubling the Deficit

        Mr. Romney said Mr. Obama had doubled the deficit. That is not true. When Mr. Obama took office in January 2009, the Congressional Budget Office had already projected that the deficit for fiscal year 2009, which ended Sept. 30 of that year, would be $1.2 trillion. (It ended up as $1.4 trillion.) For fiscal year 2012, which ended last week, the deficit is expected to be $1.1 trillion — just under the level in the year he was inaugurated. Measured as a share of the economy, as economists prefer, the deficit has declined more significantly — from 10.1 percent of the economy’s total output in 2009 to 7.3 percent for 2012. JACKIE CALMES”

  • Strighttothepoint!!!!!

    NICKKIN-You mean he actually has two ears????I,I was to busy listening to what MITT was saying,to even notice,but if you give me”‘another 4 years”,I’ll check and see if thats true or not!!!!I’m sure you wouldn’t mind waiting,there is a 16%chance you don’t have a job,so you won’t have to work,there is is also 12 to 14% chance(47 Million Americans) that you are getting food-stamps,so you don’t have to worry about food .and who knows,during that time someone in Washington may just happen to create a job!!!

  • Carl Manning

    I never watch these debates between Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum. Neither of these guys will ever tell the truth or rescue America from the imminent trainwreck their parties have supported by their diabolically insane policies. All this “debate???” proved was that Romney is just a whole lot better liar than Obama. I have so much more better things to do with my time than listen to these traitorous, globalist, NWO, Bilderberg, Socialist, anti-Constitutional, anti-American puppets for the banksters.

    • michiganminuteman

      Total bull shat cop-out! There could not be more differance between the two men. I don’t think Mitt is planning on installing anyone from the muslim brotherhood into any positions of power. Obumbler on the otherhand……………well lets hope we don’t find out.

      • Carl Manning

        How’s that GOP RINO Radio Faux Noise Kool-Aid working out for ya’, MINUTEMAN, or is it MINUTEMAID??? Oh, since I’m trying to communicate with you, I would be remiss not to at least attempt a baaaaaaaaa. Sorry, a Dr. DooLittle I am not, but that was my best attempt to communicate with Sheeple such as yourself. Now, I’ll let you go back to sleep. AND YOU CALL YOURSELF A “MINUTEMAN” – God Help Us!!!

        Obama will have his Communist purge one way or another after he establishes martial law with another false flag like 9/11. I look forward to the decimation of the Treasonous RINO Establishment GOP that had the audacity and unmitigated gall to defy the US Constitution and allow this sack of putrefaction anywhere near our government. I hope their arrests and executions are televised!!! If the GOP had ever been a decent political party, there never would’ve been a despicable Communist KGB agent, Barack Obama, or whatever his name is
        commanding the American military armed forces.

    • nickkin

      Carl…..would you be investigating on moving to another country ?

      • Carl Manning

        Actually, I am seriously looking into it because we’re done here very soon. The party’s almost over. If the Good Lord tells me to get on down the road, my family and I will be high-tailing it in short order. The FEMA camps await for us Christians and patriots. Amerika is fast becoming a completely unrecognizeable police State Dictatorship straight out of an episode of the Twilight Zone. It will not be easily affordable to up and go, but when is freedom ever easily affordable??? I’m sure many immigrants to this country weren’t in the best shape financially, but they knew when it was time to go. My ancestors came here for freedom and economic opportunity many years ago. Soon, it may just be my turn to follow in their footsteps to go elsewhere. Hell, even Canada looks like a better country than this one now.

  • Carl Manning

    The globalists tried to kill Ross Perot in 1992. They had threatened the lives of him and his family so much that he prematurely left the campaign while he was ahead of Clinton and Bush Sr, two serial murderers themselves. When he returned to the campaign, his advantage was now lost, and Rush Limbaugh (Bimbo) the Republican Establishment hack and blithering idiot made fun of him having likely not even a clue what the Establishment was up to with death threats and such against Ross Perot, their greatest threat ever to their hegemoniacal control of the District of Criminals since JFK AND RFK. There is no doubt in my mind that they would have threatened, if not indeed assassinated, Ron Paul had he successfully captured the GOP nomination and the Presidency. Ross Perot, Chuck Baldwin, and Ron Paul – three true patriots – have all been warning us for some time now that America is in grave danger. Chuck sums it up right here…

    http://chuckbaldwinlive.com/home/archives/5164

    • michiganminuteman

      Carl, I liked Ross. I voted for him, along with a lot of other people who would like to see the system changed. All our votes did was dilute the vote and help get clinton elected, did we learn anything? Well, I know I did! It may not be perfect but it is the system (two party) we must live with, for now. Lets not throw the baby out with the bath water,ok? THINK!

      • Carl Manning

        Spare me the Chicken Little biennial RINO rigamarole. DID HE REALLY BOTHER THE GOP ITSELF ENOUGH TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT HIM WHEN THEY HAD THE CHANCE – LIKE WITH THE INELIGIBILITY SLAM-DUNK??? Back at ya’ – THINK!!!

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