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Crushing Dissent

December 17, 2010 by  

Crushing Dissent

The U.S. Army private accused of leaking classified documents to WikiLeaks sits in solitary confinement in a military brig at Quantico, Va., isolated for 23 hours of every day. He’s been there for five months, and he was held in similar conditions for two months in a military jail in Kuwait.

Salon.com’s Glenn Greenwald writes that Bradley Manning, despite being a model detainee without any episodes of violence or other disciplinary problems, has been declared a Maximum Custody Detainee, is isolated from human contact for all but one hour a day, is barred from exercising and is under constant surveillance to enforce the restrictions. And now the brig’s medical personnel administer regular doses of anti-depressants to Manning to prevent his brain from snapping from the effects of the isolation.

“In sum,” Greenwald writes, “Manning has been subjected for many months without pause to inhumane, personality-erasing, soul-destroying, insanity-inducing conditions of isolation similar to those perfected at America’s Supermax prison in Florence, Colorado:  all without so much as having been convicted of anything.”

There is no word to describe this sort of the treatment other than torture.

Despite what you think of Manning and his actions — and it’s evident from some of the responses to A War On The Truth that many believe there is no punishment sufficiently cruel for Manning and Julian Assange — his treatment at the hands of the U.S. Government is barbaric and extreme. In many nations — including our own, according to court rulings from the 19th and 20th centuries — extended confinement in extreme isolation is considered a form of torture.

This treatment is especially egregious when one considers that Manning is merely accused of a crime. He has not yet been convicted. In America, in theory at least, everyone is to be considered innocent until the state proves them guilty.

This is what happens when the camel’s nose gets in the tent, as it did when our government sanctioned the torture of enemy combatants at Abu Ghraib, at Guantanamo Bay and in secret facilities around the world. The camel’s nose was allowing the torture of foreigners. This expanded to torture of Americans — first Jose Padilla and now Manning — who are, in their own ways, considered terrorists by U.S. authorities.

Next, authorities will come for those who dare to stand up to oppressive government — Tea Party members, Ron Paul supporters, libertarians, returning military veterans, those who fear coming martial law and are stockpiling food and gold. Some in government already consider these people to be terrorists.

Don’t believe that can happen? Ask Padilla and Manning.

Or, if you could, it would be a wonderful exercise to query those German, Russian and Chinese citizens who were roused out of bed in the dark of night, only to disappear into some dank gulag, concentration camp or salt mine without benefit of trial, merely for being different or daring to speak the truth.

Is this the America you want to see?

Bob Livingston

is an ultra-conservative American who has been writing a newsletter since 1969. Bob has devoted much of his life to research and the quest for truth on a variety of subjects. Bob specializes in health issues such as nutritional supplements and alternatives to drugs, as well as issues of privacy (both personal and financial), asset protection and the preservation of freedom.

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  • http://none Mike

    Sounds to me like if they cant just make him dissappear they will drive him insane.I wonder if this no contact holding of him is in some way out of fear for what he might have to say in his own defence? If so we will probly never know the truth like so many other things buried by our beloved goverment. Innocent until proven guilty?I think not this is a dangerous precips we stand on right now. So close to totalatarian its pathetic. Mike L.

    • http://naver samurai

      Looks like the Obama bin Laden administration also believes in using torture in some ways. I guess the libs can’t just blame Bush anymore. Their “messiah” does it too. FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

      P.S. If he intentionally did this act, he’ll probably be hoping for a long sentence instead of the alternate punishment – death. Since we are at war, people that do things like this tend to be facing a firing squad. Where this immature soldier got the idea in his head to do these things is unbelievable. I wish him the best. Military justice and be swift, but also messes you up for the rest of your life.

      • Teresa

        I agree

        • Bus

          sounds like we’re learning from the Gulag system.

          • Bruce D.

            Jeff Paterson, who runs Manning’s legal defense fund, told The Huffington Post. “His attorney and supporters were hoping that this could be taken care of through the appropriate channels.
            I just found this. If he has an attorney than a lot of people are just talking crap here.

      • Bruce D.

        Good point that in a time of war, which we are, he could be shot for doing what he did. Maybe he should be if what he did leads to even one person dying or aids and abeits Alqueda or the Taliban in any way. That being said he needs to have a trial to ascertain just what kind and of harm he has done and the penalty should fit the crime. The Army shames America by giving him mind altering drugs. By the time they are done with him he won’t care whether he is in jail or not. It is not likely that there is a threat of violence that would justify isolation and no exercise. If you want to shoot him for treason and it is justified then shoot him. But the punishment should fit the crime or it puts us all at risk.

        • Wanda Murline

          If I am correct, he was depressed before he alledgedly released all of this information. Why is no one new media posting that this guy is gay and was feeling overwhelmed and insecure and this is one of the reasons that he decided to steal the information and release it to the public? This information has been withheld from the public via the alphabet news media and even this site. Let’s look at the whole picture and when you have ALL the pertinent information, then make some rational as to why this guy did what he did, and what his punishment may be. I think he already had a mental incapacity and his being gay had something to do with it. Maybe he is getting antidepressents for his depression that he already had before he leaked this information. God, I wish that someone would report the whole story, not just pick and chose what they want to report….that is what the government does regarding laws on the books…they rally behind laws that they like (Patriot Act), and ignore laws that they don’t want to deal with (Immigration). All laws need to be adhered to and the big one is the Constitution.

          • Bruce D.

            I agree with you on that. We are all doing a lot of guessing with this story. I think someone on this site posted he was gay but I have not heard it on the news. I am not sure if that is relevant as the military is not dumb enough to accept that as a justification for treason. What needs to be known is if any information was leaked that aided and abetted Alqueda or the Taliban. If it has he should get life in prison along with the other guy.

          • crystal

            The media is hiding the fact that he’s a homosexual because it would fly in the face of them trying to repeal DADT. Manning went on many homosexual tangents during his time in the military. There is no doubt that he’s guilty and should be taken outside and shot. No room for treason.

          • Jana

            He may be isolated because he is in danger of being harmed by other prisoners as he has been labeled as a traitor to our country. There are different reasons to be isolated than to just punish.

          • Charie

            Wanda, I’m with you. I hate cherry-picked stories and that’s pretty much what we get all the time. I want someone to tell the truth for a change!!

        • marvin

          Bruce D.
          i would say that the solater is keeping him a live

      • Gary

        That’s Obama bin Biden

      • DaveH

        We are not at War. War has not been declared by Congress.

        • DaveH

          It is just one of the many constitutional usurpations that our dictators have taken.

        • Bruce D.

          The use of military force was authorized by Congress. I know Obama wants to call it a police action and try people in civilian courts but either way both military actions were voted on and authorized by congress.

        • Bruce D.

          James Madison reported that in the Federal Convention of 1787, the phrase “make war” was changed to “declare war” in order to leave to the Executive the power to repel sudden attacks but not to commence war without the explicit approval of Congress. The expressed approval was given by an overwhhelming majority in Congress. Congress can vote at any time to bring the troups home as they did in the Vietnam War and also cut off funding as they did in the Vietnam War. They have never lost that power.

          • DaveH

            Word games, Bruce. That’s all.

          • DaveH

            You are the first to complain when the Liberals use the Commerce Clause as their justification to do just about anything they please. How about breaking their mold and not behaving similarly?

          • Bruce D.

            DaveH you get so offended when I disagree with you. I am not a Libertarian and I do not agree with everything you say. Why would you expect people to agree with you al the time as Libertarians ony represent a very small part of the population. It has nothing to do with word games. The intent of the Constitution is that the Congress has the power for the continuance of a war or to stop a war if action is taken by the President. In this case a vote was taken by Congress approving the action. Congress can start bringing the troupes home any time they want to. Congress has chosen to continue the war even when the left had sixty senators and could have easily ended it. The intent of the Constitution is intact.

          • Bruce D.

            Also this has nothing to do with the commerce clause.

          • DaveH

            My commerce clause point was that the left use it to usurp the main intent of the Constitution, just as you are doing with the War Powers clause.

          • Vicki

            So Bruce D I still do not see evidence from you or anyone else that we are at war. If we are then with whom are we at war? Notice I ignore word games like “war on poverty”, “war on (some) drugs”, “War on terror”. With whom are we at war and when was the war declared and who in Congress voted for it and who voted against it.

            Absent actual cites I most presume that you like so many others are playing out an exact part from the story “1984″. And our masters are using our foolish belief that we are at war with “somebody, somewhere” to stifle opposition. When Bush was in the WhiteHouse, liberals complained daily that they were being demonized for their “patriotic” actions opposing Bush. Now that it is THEIR OX, suddenly opposing Obama and HIS use of our military is (surprise) un patriotic. Theo obvious common theme here is opposing the regime is un-patriotic. How Banana Republic of us.

          • Bruce D.

            Vicki I think Dennis Cucinish is the only one who did not vote for it. If you do not know that there is a war going on where have you been for the last eight years. It is you and DaveH who are playing the words games. Somehow you are both managing to avoid reaity.

          • Vicki

            Bruce D. Show me the Declaration of War. Otherwise you are just another person advocating a lawless society.

        • USNpops

          Congress may hot have the balls to declare the war against terrorism, but the majority of people in this country are beginning to realize that we are at war – a war on terror.
          Call it what you will, the attacks on 9/11, against the Marine Barracks, and the USS cole, were not just “Man Made Disasters”, but rather salvos in the Jihadist War Against America and our way of life.
          And there are threats that we have not seen the worst yet. But still our government refuses to recognize that we are the targets of a war that we refuse to recognize and put our maximum strength and will on the front lines in an effort to be the victors.

          • Vicki

            It is really hard to fight a war on terror. Who are its soldiers. What is their uniform? Where is their nation. What are they attacking. How about we tell our government that we have already WON the war on terror by being NOT afraid. http://www.downsizedc.org/etp/campaigns/77

            Yes winning the war on terror is just THAT easy. Terror will have lost. Then if there is a puppet master pulling the strings he or she will have to come out from behind that silly curtain. Declare war on that person or persons. A war on a feeling can only be won by those who are having the feeling. Choose to NOT be afraid. Tell congress to stop being afraid on your behalf.

          • Kate8

            Vicki, Bruce, Dave, It seems to me that our biggest problem is our own government, not terrorists. Or maybe they are the biggest terrorists.

            Our own country has turned against us, and we fight amonst ourselves. If our own government performed it’s duty, foreign terrorist would not be a problem.

            Washington, backed by foreign elites, has turned against us. What has happened to this poor soul will soon come to all those who wish to preserve our Constitutional Republic. In fact, it is on a fast-track.

            I have been appalled at what I’ve learned about those we thought were the good guys. In the end, it is up to us.

        • PATRICIA

          Where were you when Congress voted to declare war on Irag?? The one they keep blaming President Bush for and now Obama has extended it to Afghanistan

        • William Barry

          We ARE at war, whether you believe it or not… whether you wanted it to happen or not. We can pull out, pack up our toys and come back home, but the enemy will never stop hunting us, never stop stalking and killing us for no other reason than who and what we are.

          They hate us because we exist.
          They hate us because we are not like them.
          They hate us because we stand in the way of their drive for universal and absolute supremacy.
          They also believe they are superior to us, and they believe that gives them the right to hate us.

          You cannot reason with people who think like this, and you cannot defeat them with peaceful platitudes. You can only fight them and hope you inflict enough defeats upon them to make them reconsider, or you can die.

          The choice is yours.

        • marvin

          DaveH
          hell i thoght that when hille clinton was a senitor that they voted to go to war with iran

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Marvin,
            you mean Iraq.

      • RivahMitch

        Sorry but, as a combat vet my feeling is that he clearly violated his oath of office and for deliberately disseminating classified information (this is not a case of conscientious objection to an illegal order) that jeopardizes the lives of others he should be held incommunicado untle executed.

        • DaveH

          Yeah, sure, hold him incommunicado so he can’t tell his side of the story.
          How fortunate for leaders that men do not think — Adolf Hitler

          • Bruce D.

            It is easy for you to criticize from the comfort of your home DaveH. This soldier is putting his life on the line and he doesn’t like it.
            …”this is not a case of conscientious objection to an illegal order..” I agree with that statement. I do not think the imprisoned solder is the hero many think he is. I think his intention was to cause harm in any way he could. I am sure left wing organizations will come to his aid before long and his story will be told. It needs some time to play out as there is still more information not released that could put our troupes in danger and those giving intelligence.

          • Vicki

            Political secrets protect tyrants. Military secrets have a very short shelf life and need to be shown the light of the people. Should we have the military our founders designed for us military secrets would be short and naturally secret. Secret just long enough to fight and win. Once the battle is over the only reason to keep it a secret is to protect the guilty.

          • DaveH

            Where are you criticizing from Bruce? Your workplace?
            The greatest threat to our nation is from the military state which sheeple like you support. Hitler would have loved you.

          • marvin

            DaveH
            just what story should he tell, he down load thousands of classified documents what do you want him to say i had a lover spat with my boy friend and had nothing better to do then put lives in danger

          • http://?? Joe H.

            Vicki,
            In battle there are often locals that helpin your confrontations with the enemy. In a war such as this we have going right now, those people need to be protected for the rest of their life! Those type of informants save American lives!

        • DaveH

          This is how the pushy controlling Muslims are working their magic:
          http://www.newsmax.com/InsideCover/UK-Red-Cross-Christmas/2010/12/17/id/380244

          We send our soldiers far away to die for what? Do we really think we will change these people?
          And then we give ground to them on the home front. And, I know, it is in the United Kingdom. Same difference. What is wrong with this picture?

      • http://none Mike

        Samurai, I just have way to many questions now. And the treatment and behavior surrounding this whole mess is makeing thoes questions grow and grow. Just how far up did this go? Did he have help? What is the true nature of what Assange Still has? There is a reason these 2 are still alive and this wasent buried before this ever came out?No Now I want answers and to get thoes this guy needs to testify. Not be driven to mindlessness.Yet I see many many people here who want a swift fireing squad for this guy with no answers comming from the dead I just dont see it. Mike L.

        • Vicki

          Killing them quickly protects the guilty as LH Oswald could tell us. Opps.

          • http://none Mike

            Vicki, Many secrets are buried with their carriers. I see you have studied this too with your later NG link. I use Discovery and History much the same way. Amazing how these 2 channels are owned by the British isnt it. :)No there is a reason this guy is being held in a dark cell in the deepst recesses of our prison system. My mind begs me to ask What is it?

            On a secondary note isnt it suppriseing to you that so many here that wouldent trust the goverment to blow their own noses. Are so willing to trust them in this. Scitzophrenia on display. Mike L.

          • Teresa

            Vicki, you stated: So Bruce D I still do not see evidence from you or anyone else that we are at war.

            If you can not see that we are at war then you need to open your eyes wider…we are at the greatest war of all times….the war of our very freedom is at stake and the war on terror for the pure and stupid fact of political correctness and our Constitution is being destroyed.
            Again, if you do NOT see this war you are blind.

          • http://none Mike

            Teresa, Yes this is a war. But it is a war unlike any we have ever fouht. This is a war against an Idealog.This war has no border that is well defined. It has no city on a hill to be defeated. It has no clear leaders out there. You might point out Osama Bin Ladin but you would be wrong as everyone else is. This is not a war as we have ever defined war. Its one we cant win with guns. We can elimante every leader they have and yet another will still arise from the ashes.

            This is a war we can win but we will only do so if we figure out the reasons for it. These people who are drawn to this Idealog are not living in the same world as us. And no matter how many we kill we will never kill Ignorance. This area of the world still lives in the fog of 12th and 13th centurey beliefs.Untill the point we raise these people up to a level where they can at least understand the world they live in. These Idealogs will continue to rise up in this area of the world. So yes it is a war but its a war that we need to understand to win.Mike L.

          • Vicki

            Mike says:
            “On a secondary note isnt it suppriseing to you that so many here that wouldent trust the goverment to blow their own noses. Are so willing to trust them in this. Scitzophrenia on display. Mike L.”

            It is not surprising though it is depressing. But ride we must. Ring the bells we must. The secrets and deceit and lies must die so that we can become again the land of the (actually) free. (We are still the home of the brave)

          • Vicki

            Teresa I am still waiting for you to show me the declaration, properly signed by Congress. The Truth is ALWAYS at war with the lies. A possibly misguided soul released some truth that your masters are upset about. That is the war in which we fight but a single battle here today in this thread. Do you fight with and for Truth or with your masters?

            The battle lines have been drawn. Truth, Justice and the American way on one side. Banana Republic on the other. Choose your path.

        • Dan az

          Mike
          I remember watching a you tube awhile back that a helicopter was asking for permission to ingage on some muslims in irag.The door gunner Im pretty sure was this guy.He released the footage and got in trouble.So maybe this is just a way for him to get back at them who knows.

      • Apache6

        HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN SHOT FOR TREASON BY NOW!!!!!!

      • Palin12

        Just for laughs….Obama on Mt. Rushmore video….this will make your day LOL
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVw-H9KDBLs&feature=grec_index

    • John Mathews

      I think they are being too easy on him. They should take him out and hang him.

    • HFlashman

      Wow … now folks on the wacked Right are refuting exactly the concets and treatment they espoused and shouted for. Detention without charges, no right to counsel, indefinite period before trial or hearing, complete secrecy and no contact by prisoners, no hearing of evidence … exactly what the Right wanted.

      You got what you asked for. Happy now?

      • Bruce D.

        Everyone is just guessing. The truth is we do not know if he is receiving council or not. Those who are anti-government are assuming that. Those who feel there is still information not released that could cause people to die do not want that information released. In any case he should be given legal council without a doubt. He is in the military an there are serious consequences to aiding and abetting the enemy if proven to be true.

        • Vicki

          If he swore the oath to protect and defend the Constitution from all enemies both foreign and domestic then how is exposing the domestic enemy of the Constitution a treasonous act?

          Secrets protect tyrants.

          • texastwin827

            Vicki, based on our assumption, I presume George Washington’s battle plans would have been “open game” as far as you are concerned.

            While the petty stuff may be fair game, when this man (and Assange) starts publishing targets, info about troops movements and names of people that are “undercover” so to speak, then it has taken one step too many in the name of “whistleblowing”.

            Military movements and info about personnel have been “classified” every since George Washington fought his first battle. To say, in today’s times, “we have a right to know” is pure BS! If it were one of your family members who worked at a “target” or was the one who was revealed, you would not likely feel that way.

            As for Assange…sorry to disagree with y’all…he is arrogant, egotistical & money driven (from millions in donations that he doesn’t account for, to anyone…and it’s not his overhead that he spends it on) and it has nothing to do with being a whistleblower….

          • Vicki

            texastwin827 says:
            “Vicki, based on our assumption, I presume George Washington’s battle plans would have been “open game” as far as you are concerned.”

            I presume you meant “your” rather than our assumption. You must be new here thus you have not seen my full statements on military secrets. Here is the short form

            Military secrets (GWs battle plans) will naturally be kept secret for the SHORT time necessary to wage and win that battle. After the battle is won the secret if kept only serves to protect the guilty. For example the links above that DaveH posted showing the leaks where American soldiers killed (murdered) non-combatants. (Anyone remember Mi Lai?
            http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,840403,00.html)

            In a proper defense system as envisioned and created by our founding fathers there would be naturally kept secrets before and during battle. After battle the stories can and should be told in ballad and song.

            Secrets protect the guilty and tyrant.

          • Bruce D.

            Secrets also protect military men in a time of war Vicki. Should we not have secrets from Iran or North Korea.

          • Vicki

            Bruce D. says:
            “Secrets also protect military men in a time of war Vicki. Should we not have secrets from Iran or North Korea.”

            Since we are not at war with Iran or NKorea your point is moot. Should we go to war with either then we can keep battle plans secret long enough to execute the plan, win and then write songs and ballads about the battle. Secrets of that battle no longer needed.

          • Kate8

            Vicki – good point. We seem to have lost track of the fact that we’ve got foreign and domestic enemies in charge of the country right now.

      • Teresa

        I believe he should be given a fair trial, everyone associated w/his involvment if any and if he was the one tried and hanged for treason, end of story.

    • http://www.restorethebalance.us Glenn Neal

      Mike, your comment, “So close to totalatarian its pathetic,” is right on—but for the wrong reason. The real danger to the country is politicians in Washington.

      But I digress: Manning is a member of the United States Army, which tells me four things:
      (1) He is a volunteer.
      (2) He chose to be in the Army. He was not drafted;
      (3) He swore an oath to uphold the Constitution of the United States, to obey the lawful orders of those appointed over him, and to be bound by the Uniform Code of Military Justice. He received training on the physical skills of a soldier, AND he also was trained about his oath and what circumscribed his behavior—The Uniform Code of Military Justice. As I recall, the training was thorough and left no doubt as to what is expected of military personnel. If you haven’t served in any branch of the uniformed service, you may not know that.
      (4) If a soldier gives away his country’s secrets, it’s kind of like being “a little bit pregnant.” If he is willing to give away secret diplomatic cables, what is there to prevent him (or another soldier who happens to be angry at the Army or someone in the Army) from giving away military troop movements—allowing an enemy to ambush and kill those troops? And, how would that be different from the alleged “fragging” that went on in Viet Nam? They are all criminal acts.

      None of us have the whole story and should be cautious about making judgments. Does he know more than we have heard about so far? Could he be a risk for releasing more secrets if allowed to communicate with the outside world?

      Personally, I sleep better knowing he is under control and not very likely to further damage the security of this country.

      Giving away your country’s secrets is a pathetic, pitiful, cowardly way to get revenge when you are angry with the Army or about some individual slight—real or imagined. Whatever your beef, you have no right to put other people’s lives at unnecessary risk.

      • Jana

        Glenn Neal,
        This was a very good post and you make a lot of good common sense.

      • DaveH

        I guess these people’s lives don’t count:
        http://www.collateralmurder.com/

        • USNpops

          It is a shame that there is collateral killing in war. Think about the attack on Pearl harbor, many innocents were killed in that conflict. The constant bombing of Londen by the Nazis, intended to inflict Maximum civilian damage, and not aimed at military targets on purpose.
          In wartime there will be civilian casualties. In wartime sometimes the worst in a person will be brought out and they will do some things they should’nt. Being in a situation where the next person you see may be a living bomb ready to kill you every day, would tend to change your mind on mercy. And the military deals with these situations on a daily basis. The rules of engagement of this war are so restrictive that they have caused many of our troops to be killed because they hesitated when they should have been defending.
          And also bear in mind our troops are in a position where the enemy will use their own children, wives and mothers as shields for their deeds. Then accuse us of brutality when there are losses of innocent lives.
          And many gullible goody two shoes, who have never put their life on the line for their country sit back and judge the actions of those that are putting it on the line every day so they can sit safely by their fireside and complain about the brutality of war.
          Go through the list of people in congress, and the Commander in Chief, and see how few of them ever served in the military, and yet are in positions of authority over the military.

          • Bruce D.

            Good post USNpops. I agree with what you are saying as I feel the same way. Many cannot understand that from the comfort of their own home. Many soldiers are just kids themselves. Some make bad decisions and there may be a few that do not care. The overwhelming majority of our soldiers are trying to do the best they can and come home alive. I support them and I am proud of their courage. It was not their decision to go to war. The Congress authorized it and bad things happen in war. You hope they don’t but they do.

          • Vicki

            If you can accept collateral deaths in fighting against enemies foreign then why are you so upset that there may be collateral deaths when fighting enemies domestic?

          • DaveH

            That was outright murder, Pops. Maybe you and Bruce and others can dance around the english language to justify it, but I can’t. Why are we even over there, if not to save lives? So, how do you square the reckless taking of personal lives with that? It’s no wonder the Liberals don’t take your morality seriously when you accuse them of wrong doing by helping themselves to the money of others. You’ve got no legs. You’re no damn better than the Liberals.

        • Bruce D.

          DaveH I see you are in bed with John Kerry on this one.

          • DaveH

            I see you are in bed with the Devil, Bruce. It’s funny that as an Atheist, I adhere much more rigorously to moral code than do you Right-Wingers.

          • Bruce D.

            What moral code it that Dave. That American soldiers are murderers.

          • DaveH

            Killing people other than in self-defense is Murder, Bruce. It doesn’t matter whether that killing is sanctioned by ordinary people or people in Government.
            I wouldn’t expect you to understand that concept. You are just another of the useful tools that tyrants rely on when they do their evil deeds.

        • Kate8

          DaveH – I still just can’t help thinking that the timing of this has more to do with controlling the media, and especially the internet.

          I trust nothing the media reports. Everything is spun. Much is contrived.

          Is this man a patriot or a traitor? Without all the facts, we’ll never known. But it will be used in the move to control what we hear.

          • DaveH

            I’m sure you’ve noticed, Kate, how Government uses every event as an excuse for more growth. Yet, things keep happening, no matter how much more “protection” they add. And useful tools like Bruce buy into the bull.

      • http://none Mike

        Glenn, I used that line to make a point. Are we now takeing political prisoners here in our beloved america. This privet isnt the only one. He is just the most recent in a long line of oversteps by our goverment. Ruby Ridge and Waco Texas come to mind for a couple of more recent ones. You have Wesly Snipes going to prison for 3 years for standing up and saying taxes are illeagle. There are many many more.

        They all seem to be leading to the same place though. That deep dark hole of totalanarism. Where every thing we say do and think is to be scruitinized by our wonderful goverment all in the name of security. Mike L.

    • alwaysright

      He’s already insane. He’s a freakin’ fruitbar who sings along with “Lady” gag-uh and was working on a sex change. Ya think that might be part of the overall problem?? no-DADT? TGFFF (Thank God For Friendly Fire)

    • Violet

      They haven’t proven anything and this is similar to the CIA tactics by psychiatrist Cameron used back in the LSD and psychic driving to erase personality and then reprogram. The USA government is capable of evil as any other government is. Just read history.

    • old white guy

      mike , if it was ww2 the idiot would already have been shot for treason.

      • http://none Mike

        Most likely you are right about that. But it isnt WW2. We had a declared war there against a defined enemy. Here we have a series of memmos between our illusterious diplomats about their bungeling of their jobs. Being fully coverd up by our goverment to CYA an adminastration that has no clue as to what its really doing.Mike L.

    • Olaf

      Come on you people, has he been convicted of anything? Up to this point in time he is innocent but is frying in a slammer because someone dreamed up he is guilty. What kind of justice do you have in the US? Mob justice? Yes, indeed that is all what it is and that comes out of the US. The US is supposed to be leading the world on free speech and justice for all. Looking at this case I know there is more justice in Zimbabwe.Shame on you you poison the air I breathe.

  • http://www.diyyardandhome.com Dan

    His “isolation” as described is inaccurate. He is in a cell with by himself. The front of the cell is barred and there are cells on either side and if occupied he can converse with those individuals. It’s not like he is in a closed room with a door that has a single window opening. This is not torture and there are many individuals who are in similar cells for many reason. His isolation is more than like due to the perceived threat to his personal well being. If he was in the general population he would be in danger of retaliatory violence. The prisoners in military prisons are a little better disciplined than civilian prisons simply because of their training. This does not mean the general population would treat him any better though.

    He violated federal and military law. He does deserve punishment. I know it may be hard for many to understand he is not an average citizen subject to civilian laws but a military member who violated the UCMJ. As far as his time in confinement without a trail, that is the norm since it is usually the individuals own lawyers who delay a trail and not the prosecution.

    If he is found guilty he would more than likely end up back in isolation simply because a lot of military members would see him as a traitor.

    • Bob

      You hit the nail right on the head Dan.

    • Bruce D.

      Thanks Dan for the clarity. I do not think it good for anyone when someone puts out questionable articles without finding out the truth first. We should not really hate government or like it. Each story should stand on truth without adding emotional color to it.

      • Harold Olsen

        Based on what I know about Salon.com, Greenwald most likely had all the facts but just put what he wanted into his story, trying to gain sympathy for Manning.. He is probably one of those idiots like Michael Moore and Ron Paul who consider Manning a hero for what he did.

    • James

      Dan, I’m curious. How do you know that Manning is in such a cell and can see and convese with other prisoners? All I’ve seen is the artist’s drawing in this article.

    • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

      Dear Dan,

      Sorry, but I believe you are incorrect. Manning is being held in extreme isolation. There is no contact with other prisoners. He’s even being denied basics like a sheet and pillow. In short, the government is being quite punitive in its treatment of him. And remember the important point: He has not yet been convicted of any crime.

      Best wishes,
      Bob

      • Jana

        Bob Livingston,
        Does he have a lawyer? He has been seen by someone since he has been given drugs for depression, and the guards see him, but is he being represented by anybody? What about his parents?
        He should be allowed to have a pillow and a sheet as well as a few other amenities. He may be and probably is guilty of treason, but he does deserve reasonable treatment till he has a trial. Then punishment is meted out.
        I would sure like to know more.

        • Jana

          I see that his title was ARMY INTELLIGENCE ANALYST. So it says he was capable of having information or gaining information that he shouldn’t have. Our teenagers and 22 yr. olds have grown up with computers and know how to use them, in some cases way to well.

        • Stan Smith

          The reason he had no sheets they could have put him on suicide watch In case if he try to kill himself!

          • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

            Dear Stan Smith,

            He is not on a suicide watch. There is no reason to deny him basic amenities other than punitive.

            Best wishes,
            Bob

          • Stan Smith

            Dear Stan Smith,

            He is not on a suicide watch. There is no reason to deny him basic amenities other than punitive.

            Best wishes,
            Bob
            I know but I was just guessing Then again they could keep this thing quiet But we may never know!

      • http://marcum@wildblue.net coal miner

        Bob Livinston,

        That is scary.

    • Bruce D.

      You really had me there Dan. Now I think you really need to state your source. I want to believe you because I want to think better of our government. Right now Bob is giving me doubts about your story.

      • DaveH

        Bruce,
        No offence, but I was wondering why you so quickly assumed Dan’s statement as true?

        • Bruce D.

          I thought he was a military man and not left wing.

    • HFlashman

      Who says he violated any law? Any proof or evidence to substantiate charges? Think about that.

  • John Wayne

    Leave his sorry butt there too!

    • DaveH

      Achtung!

  • Bill

    I agree with Mr. Livingston. If Manning is tried and found guilty, THEN he should, IMHO, be executed for treason. Until then he is “innocent until proven guilty”. I think he should be held in custody to prevent flight until he is prosecuted, but not in total isolation. His trial should also be as soon as possible and not dragged out over many years. Secret, idefinte imprisonment and torture (including prolonged isolation)is NOT what America is about. I am a patriot and deplore what Manning did (if he is guility – and I believe that he is – but that needs to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt in court), but he is a U.S. citizen and deserves to be treated decently and given a fair trial.

  • Larry Hearold

    Mannang is a scapegoat anyway. Having served for over 20 years in the military, a PFC DOES NOT have access to the amounts and types of information that he “supposedly” provided wikileaks. He may have passed the information along from someone else but a PFC just does not get the security clearances necessary to do it. TTHAT is why he’s being isolated! They are afraid that if he starts talking to lawyers, reporters, etc., the cat is out of the bag and the real culprit will be known. I don’t agree with wikileaks but it needs to be done. Our government is too corrupt and the Amaerican public is too dumb!

    • James

      Larry, If memory serves, Manning kept tinkering with his computer search until he stumbled onto a combination of terms that unlocked these super-secret files. He then downloaded them (some 250,000 pages) and gave them to Wikileaks. That anyone could do that was a shock, and an embarrassment to the authorities.

      • Harold Olsen

        A few weeks ago, Fox News Channel reported that Manning’s superiors caught him downloading some of these documents and ordered him to stop. He apparently ignored those orders and his superiors apparently did not ensure that he complied with them.

      • http://none Mike

        People Listen to yourselves. God all Bob is asking is that you think here before we just write this guy off.I have some very intresting questions I would love to have answerd before this guy is made mute by whatever they are feeding him in there.

        1How did a privet in the service gain acess to above top secret documents? Did you ever think that some lazy general might have given him a clerance code to write some report for him? Or was he given acess by some higher up who was flat disgusted by the behavior of our wonderful goverment? No insted you howell for blood like the cheap seats in the Roman coloseum.

        2 Were the secrets he relesed detrimental to our leaders or were they detrimental to our security? If what was relesed was just a slap at how we are conducting our affairs overseas then maby we needed to be told the truth about it?If we were double dealing on our allies and consorting with the enemy during a time of war there were far larger crimes being commited by our goverment?

        3 Why was Assange chosen for the relese of this information? Was he an inside contact for someone higher up the food chain?We may never know how high up the ladder this goes if he is broken and mindless when and if he is ever allowed to testify.

        4 I want some of these questions answerd please. Call me naive if you want but we have had too many years of cloak and dagger polotics for me just to be satisfied with calling him a traitor.

        5 I have seen several of you who are millitary veterans quoteing the UCMJ. I am too and I have personally seen where the UCMJ was circumvented in favor of a higher ups son being allowed to stay in the millitary after a suicide attempt. This activity was to be followed by an immediate court martial and imprisonment. Yet he was allowed to stay and complete his basic and go on to his school.So no the UCMJ isnt as ironclad for all as you think .

        Just a few points to ponder before we throw this guy to the lions. And if he is proven guilty then by all means punish him. But lets not be so quick in our rush to judgement that we loose track of the facts. Mike L.

        • Kate8

          Mike, I tend to agree. In today’s world, we can’t trust the media. People are often set up to be sacrificial lambs. I don’t know if this is the case, but we can be sure we’ve not been told the whole truth.

        • James

          Mike, Nor do I believe we can trust our national government.

    • crystal

      Sorry Larry, but this time you’re wrong. When I was a Seaman Apprentice in my field I held an extremely high Security Clearance which gave me access to some of the most critical information coming over the system. The military uses low ranking individuals to push paper.

      • Harold Olsen

        I sometimes wonder just how good security is in the military. I enlisted in the army on my last day of high school in 1967 and spent three years in the service, which included a year in Vietnam. After basic training at Fort Lewis, Washington, I was sent to Edgewood Arsenal, Maryland where I worked as a clerk-typist in a chemical lab. I eventually got a security clearance rating of “Secret.” My job was to type up documents about research being done in my department. Before getting my security clearance, I was not allowed to read any of the documents that I had typed up. Does that make any sense??

        • Jana

          Harold O.
          Now that is just too funny. At the same time that is pathetic.
          The military is made up of people. They make mistakes, and some of those mistakes are in thinking if the other person is serving in this department, then they must be trustworthy. I am sure a lot of our security is not as secure as it should be. Too many people have easy access to information that they shouldn’t have.

          • Kate8

            Jana – For Pete’s sake, the military must accept Muslims and assume them to be loyal to America, even though they are clear that their first allegiance is to Allah.

            I’m afraid that today, insanity rules.

    • DaveH

      I agree, Larry. It’s easy from reading various comments on this board to see how evil people like Hitler, Stalin, or Mao can take power. Too many unquestioning sheeple.

      • Bruce D.

        You mention Hitler a lot Dave. You seem to be the one who wants to dictate what everyone says on this site. Your posts are increasingly filled with name calling and belligerence. I understand you have a very high opinion of yourself and a very low opinion of anyone who disagrees with you but that is your problem.

        • DaveH

          Your comments are full of ad hominem attacks, Bruce. Take off your blinders. You are as manipulative as the Liberals.

          • James

            Dave, you said Hitler and Stalin were both evil people. Are you saying we shouldn’t have allied with the Soviet Union in World War Two? General Patton (1885-1945) said we should have allied with Germany against the Soviets.

    • USNpops

      I was in the military for 20 years as well and cleared for Secret as an E4, and Top Secret as an E5. Clearance is give based on the information you may come in contact with in performance of your job, and has nothing to do with age or rank.
      In my case Anti Submarine Warfare tactics and the use of oceanographic data. Any one that spends 20 years in the military without a Clearance, was in a job that had no signifigance in relation to national security.
      There were regular evaluations of my status and I maintained the clearances for the life of my enlistment. Getting the clearance required a very rigid background check and yards of paperwork on a regular basis during the time I held those clearances. This carried forward into my civilian position with a large national company after retirement, where I was in a job position requiring me to enter secure Military installations in performance of my job.
      But the bottom line for me was that I was so trusted as an individual to be given this honor, that no way would I violate the oath of secrecy I took. Call me sentimental, but that is how I felt and feel to this day.

      • Jana

        USNpops,
        That’s because you are an honorable man. Thank you.

  • Don

    They treat him this way without a conviction, then go on about how awful the real terrorists are treated at Gitmo. Something just doesn’t smell right.

    • Angel Wannabe

      “BINGO”,DON!

  • papadonthai

    How long does anyone think he would last in general population in the Quantico brig? Even prisoners have a code against certain criminals. Ask pedophiles what happened to them in a prison, they are considered the scum of the earth by even murderers.

    What do you think they would do to a traitor, even if the term “innocent until proven guilty” is applied. I venture to say, Manning would be buried with honors, dead at the hand of fellow prisoners.

    • Bruce D.

      Soldiers have more at stake when treason is committed. Sometimes those sitting in the comfort of their own home do not realize what is really at stake when someone is given information that puts your life at risk.

      • DaveH

        Oh, come on. Treason? Have any of you who are claiming that even seen what the content of those releases consist of? Baa-a,Baa-a.
        http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=12058

        • Vicki

          From DaveH’s cite
          “The series of New York Times stories based on the files paints a grim picture of a mission hampered by endemic disorganization, double-dealing allies, and frequently deadly error.”

          Thus demonstrating that secrets protect the guilty.

      • USNpops

        Some of the information that I was privy to, had there been a Wikileaks and I gave them the information back in the 60′s and 70′s, could conceivably caused the loss of an entire Naval vessl with in excess of 150 sailors on board.
        So I know how this twit could have, and actually may, cause great harm to our nation.
        And in all societies, the penalty for treason is Death. And at least this guys has his life left, and the liberal justice system will allow him to keep it I’m sure.

        • Vicki

          And the penalty for exposing a tyrant before he is ready is also death. Just ask any tyrant.

          • Kate8

            Has anyone even considered that, without the controlled media running with this story, it would have been a non-story?

            We all know that when things appear over the internet, but are ignored by the MSM, no one gives it any credence, if they hear of it at all. The release of this stuff had to have had the blessing of the PTB, or this wouldn’t have exploded the way it did.

            Aside from that, this young soldier had to have known the possible repercussions of leaking info. So he’s either a tool of tht PTB, or he genuinely sacrificed himself to do what he thought was his patriotic duty.

            Is he a traitor or a hero? Will we ever know? Will higher powers protect him, quietly pay him off, or will they take him to slaughter shrouded in infamy?

            We live in a world of deception and manipulation. We need to keep this in mind when we are inclined to start demanding someone’s head based on media hysteria.

          • Claire

            Kate8–I watched some of Jesse Ventura’s Conspiracy Theory the other night. It was about the Pentagon and 9/11. Seems like NO plane parts were found, they think it was a bomb–

    • James

      Exposing what our government has done and is doing isn’t necessarily a bad thing. There are things the government doesn’t want us to know, things that are not detrimental to our national security, things that case our government in a bad light – like manufacturing evidence that Iraq had Weapons of Mass Destruction.

  • Jeryl

    While I agree that the release of all those documents was a violation of his oath, I certainly do not agree with the treatment he is receiving. I took the step of contacting my Representative and both Senators about this issue. Just a question: is he allowed anything to occupy his mind, or does he just have to sit alone with only his own thoughts?

    • Bruce D.

      It may not be so nice being left alone with your owns thoughts if you are being charged with treason and stand to spend the rest of your life in jail. Those who play with fire sometimes get burnt.

      • James

        Bruce, If Manning is found guilty of treason, he should be executed. Why should Americans be forced to house, cloth, feed and take care of him for the rest of his life?

        • Bruce D.

          Agreed!

        • Kate8

          James – What about the likes of Nancy Pelosi, Harry Ried, Barry Soetoro and numerous others?

          If treason is the issue, let these folks lead the way to the firing squad.

          • James

            Kate, Nice idea, but the insiders who pulled off the 9/11 caper aren’t even sweating. Me thinks only the Second coming of Christ will clear up this mess.

    • crystal

      This is a good time for Manning to be alone with his own thoughts.

    • Vicki

      His oath included protecting and defending the Constitution from all enemies both foreign and DOMESTIC. There is a chain of command to oaths as well.

  • Lookout

    Never mind the view on the Wikileaks his act as a government employee was at best deplorable and at worst treasonable. He could not know what damage his actions may have caused hence it would be reasonable for him to be shot on proof of his guilt. On that issue this ‘innocent till proven’ story will take effect, but you can be sure they will already be certain of his guilt; we can do without the PC rubbish.

    • DaveH

      Yeah, why not shoot him? And they should use a .50 caliber to do it. I mean, if they can do it to the other innocent victims in the released videos, why not Manning? That way the murderers could avoid the label of hypocrisy.
      Good God, you people are going to deserve the fate that Big Government has awaiting you, your children, and your grandchildren.
      We give the Government people (yes, they are just people) carte blanche to break whatever damn moral codes they want (theft, murder), and then we wonder why the country is in such a big mess.
      Sieg Heil!

    • Vicki

      Dead men tell no tales. Yeah lets shoot him quick before he can talk.

  • Jerry Kearns

    This traitor is/was in the military. Whether you or anyone else likes it when one takes the oath one gives up quite a few protections. For my money take the traitor out back and shoot him.

    • Bruce D.

      Being in the military is not a game. If proven he put lives at risk he should received the maximum penalty.

    • Patriot

      Death by firing squad, pure and simple! Traitors have no rights, when can we start with Obama, Reid & Pelosi? When you do not unhold the Constitution you are traitor, no? There can be a case made with these 3 idiots!

      • RAH

        I agree with you completely Patriot. obama, reid, and pelosi are indeed traitors to this country and should be convicted of treason. Hopefully, with a Republican majority in the House we can start the ball rolling in removing these scum from our government.

    • Vicki

      Yes he took an oath. An oath to uphold and defend the Constitution against ALL enemies both foreign and DOMESTIC. What evidence to you offer that he was NOT upholding that oath?

      Secrets protect the guilty. That is why our courts demand the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

      • Bruce D.

        What evidence do you have he was trying to uphold the Constitution. Is that why many here hgave falen in love with this guy. It is unlikely it will play out that way but we will see. I do not get the connection from the information that has already been released.

        • Vicki

          Bruce D. writes:
          “What evidence do you have he was trying to uphold the Constitution.”
          His exposure of the mis behaviour of government employees. Kinda the whole point of the Freedom of the Press part of the First Amendment.

        • DaveH

          Bruce says “Is that why many here hgave falen in love with this guy”.
          Where do you get this hyperbole that you spew, Bruce? You are like a 10-year old kid.
          Expecting Constitutional treatment of a man is not falling in love with him. You apparently are too ignorant to see what this whole thing (Wikileaks, etc.) is all about. The leaders have been exposed to the world and they want revenge. And fools like you aid and abett them in their shennanigans.

          • Vicki

            DaveH says:
            “Bruce says “Is that why many here hgave falen in love with this guy”.
            Where do you get this hyperbole that you spew, Bruce? You are like a 10-year old kid.”

            He sounds just like a liberal defending socialism here. :)

  • http://radiodynamo.com/ Radio Dynamo

    I think this young man did the country a favor. He should be given a medal for bravery above and beyond the call of duty. We need more like him.

    Remember George Hansen from Idaho? He was never convicted of anything either but he disappeared for years riding a train from one end of the country to the other and horrible abused in the process of it all. For what? Telling the truth.

    Out so called government is clearly out of control and the real terrorists sit behind benches in long black robes and in capitol chambers posing as men and women of honor and integrity, traitors to the oath they took to up hold and defend their/our constitution from all enemies foreign and domestic.

    • crystal

      He signed documents and took an oath. Mannings word isn’t worth crap.

      • LEVI506

        PLEASE DO NOT PUT GEORGE AND MANNING IN THE SAME SENTENCE. GEORGE WOULD HAVE BEEN THE FIRST TO CALL MANNING A TRAITOR. A GOOD FRIEND ONCE ASKED GEORGE WHY HE DID THE POLITICALLY INCORRECT THINGS HE DID AND SAID. HE ANSWERED TO THE EFFECT THAT HE SAID WHAT HE BELIEVED AND DAMM THE TORPEDOS, FULL SPEED AHEAD. HE WAS A GOOD MAN AND YOU DISHONOR HIM BY COMPARING HIM WITH MANNING, WHO IS NOT A PATRIOT.

  • AZ Jack

    It is very hard for me to show any sympathy for Manning or Assange, but I do not believe that he (Manning) should be treated as badly as he is being treated. Everyone is innocent until proven guilty. At least, that is the way it is supposed to work.

  • Charlie

    I used to like Bob Livingston until he started defending these miserable pieces of human garbage. Incidentally, I was in the army in the pentagon attached to the CIA with a top secret clearance. I was a PFC! (although I did make Spec 4 before I was discharged.)

    • Bruce D.

      I am starting to think that Bob has read one too many conspiracy books and it colors his ability to ascertain the facts of the story. I guess he is just like any other blogger. He tells it like he sees it and not necessarily like it is.

      • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

        Dear Bruce D.

        I believe in the Constitution and the rule of Law. You are the one who seems to have trouble with “facts,” except for those you concoct from whole cloth.

        Best wishes,
        Bob

        • Sam

          Bob Livingston,

          In your own forum, do not tell your own reader, “You are the one who seems to have trouble with ‘facts,’ except for those you concoct from whole cloth.” And, don’t sign such an insult, “Best wishes, Bob.”

          Sam Dunn

        • Bruce D.

          Bob says: You are the one who seems to have trouble with “facts,” except for those you concoct from whole cloth.

          And which ones would those be Bob or it that just a statement of convenience.

          • DaveH

            I have yet to find anywhere in the Constitution where it says that the military personel have no Constitutional protections. Yet the military leaders continue to ignore that reality even though they swear an oath to uphold the Constitution. Our military is fighting wars in at least two countries that have been undeclared by Congress. They regularly shoot people from afar with of course no trial and often with the flimsy excuse that they are armed (wouldn’t you want to be in that hostile environment?).
            Our country has indeed become a Society of Criminals, and I am ashamed of most of you:
            http://mises.org/daily/4125

          • Bruce D.

            DaveH says: “Our military is fighting wars in at least two countries that have been undeclared by Congress. They regularly shoot people from afar with of course no trial and often with the flimsy excuse that they are armed.” Good grief DaveH want is wrong with you. Those wars were approved of and voted on by Congress. A flimsy excuse of holding a gun. My God if someone is holding a gun and he doesn’t have your uniform on or an allied uniform that is a little more than a flimsy excuse. Soldiers were being killed when the order was given to wait for others to shoot first. It was just rescinded because soldiers were dying. It is not a cowboy western were you allow the other guy to draw first.

          • DaveH

            So you are one of those that believes in pre-emptive strikes? Obviously you are not very logical because that would make you the aggressor. It’s people like you who would potentially attack us that we are supposedly fighting against. You just don’t get it do you? Maybe that concept is beyond your mental capacity.

          • Bruce D.

            Of course I believe in preemptive strikes. I cannot believe you even said that. I saw a video of a helicopter strike of three men planting a road side bomb. They were a mile away and the soldieries waited until they saw what they were doing. It was all on video. Quite frankly I am proud of our soldiers. Don’t try to make them all out to be criminals.

          • Effin Reed Tard

            DaveH,

            People get shot because the territory is under “martial law”, not “civil law”. If you are under martial law your better staying indoors, if you look suspicious it’s shoot first and ask questions later !

        • DaveH

          I know how you must feel, Bob. Sorry. People believe what they want to believe, and getting them to think a little is a difficult task. You are a great person. Know that there are at least a few of us out here who appreciate your efforts.

          • Bruce D.

            DaveH says: “People believe what they want to believe, and getting them to think a little is a difficult task.” There is no one that applies to more than you DaveH.

          • Claire

            Bruce D–Don’t you think we are all bullheaded and believe what we want to believe? I know I can be bullheaded and I certainly believe what I believe and I can look at issues in a different way sometimes. You have your opinion, DaveH has his. This is one of the “rights” we have as Americans.

          • libertytrain

            Unfortunately Claire, if we do not agree with each and all of their thoughts we are the ones deemed ignorant.

          • Claire

            libertytrain—You and me ignorant?? Hell no, they are ignorant if they don’t agree with us!! LOL Just kidding.

          • Claire

            libertytrain–Today is our Mayor’s funeral. He shot himself in the chest, as least this is what the coroner has determined. The coronor is in a lot of hot water herself, a lot of wrongdoing according to the newspaper. Now there are two men fighting amongst themselves to fill the position until the election. Good old Illinois politics.

          • libertytrain

            Claire – well let us bask in our ignorance – :D

          • libertytrain

            Claire – may your city be saved somehow from the ravages of greedy men (and or women)

          • DaveH

            So, you are going to follow me around and launch your ad hominem attacks now, like the Liberals, Bruce? I’m beginning to think you are as much a lowlife as they are.

          • Bruce D.

            Give me a break Dave. You are commenting on my post. You are not seeing realty. You also accuse me of doing the same things liberals do yet you are the name caller the the one trying to belittle every comment that is in disagreement with yours.

          • DaveH

            Your comments are riddled with ad hominem attacks, Bruce. I stand by my accusation – you are lowlife.

  • bear

    Enough B.S. guys. The U.C.M.J., better known as the Uniform Code of Military Justice provides for non-judicial punishment for individuals wsithin our military. GOT THAT? What Manning did is a court martial offense, similar to what Clinton did in sharing weapons and missile delivery systems with the Chinese. GOT THAT? Ony Manning was not the Presisent of the United States. GOT THAT? What Manning did, by military standards, was wrong. What Clinton did, by Constitutional standards, was also wrong. GOT THAT? If you take the time to read some of the documents that have been released, which amounts to about 1% of all the documents that Assange has in his posession, you will be amazed to see what our world leaders and politicians are doing behind our backs. Yes the government feel threatened and are pissed off because the cats are getting out of the bag. Don’t be so fast to judge Manning and Assange for their deeds. Remember Valkerie? Those men who attempted to assinate Adolph Hitler were executed by the Third Reich and now today are considered to have been the real patriots and heros of Germany. THEY TRIED TO STOP WHAT THEY KNEW WAS WRONG! There just might be some similarity in the actions of Bradley Manning and Julian Assange. The system in place is not always there to protect us but can also hide the actions of others, such as polotical leaders and politicians. Use your brains. Think about the bigger picture here…….the truth about what is really going on in our country and the world. Want to go after someone? How about George Soros?

    • http://gunner689 gunner689

      Mr. Soros meet Mr. Nosler.

  • TIME

    Hey ~ he can still get his Law Degree!

  • Ron

    Manning is an immature traitor, but also a scapegoat. As a PFC, he had assistance in gaining access to all of that information and we don’t hear about the investigation trying to identify who they are. Yes, his actions were treasonous and he probably deserves the death penalty for his actions. He still has access to select reading materials. The use of anti-depressants on his part are still voluntary. They are not forced on him, just provided. Can you imagine the guilt he is feeling as he finally realizes the consequences for his actions? Especially knowing that whoever provided him the info is still free? I also agree his segregation is more for his own safety than as punishment. He wouldn’t last a full day in general population. His crime was not theft or fraud, but something that could cause others to lose their lives. The other prisoners may have family members who become affected by his actions. They’ll take him out – what do they have to lose?

  • Raymond Donahue

    Meanwhile his accomplice basks in publicity and is considered a hero by many.This guy is merely a dupe. What has been the course of discipline for those superiors who were as derelict in their duties to this country. I have not even seen their name in print. if they have been it has not been taken up by the mass media

  • Raymond Donahue

    Gee Bear are you comparing the US Gov to the Third Reich?

    • bear

      Bulls eye!

  • Retired AF

    So what’s the point? First of all, he should not have been in the military. Homosexualty is not an acceptable behavior for proper service in the uniform of our nation. Secondly, is or is not he an indicted defendant in a serious crime?

    • crystal

      Excellent comment!!!

  • http://gunner689 gunner689

    Another unhappy queer pissed off at the gvt. because he’s not allowed to parade around like a drag queen. What didn’t he understand about the consequences for his illegal actions. Didn’t someone read the UCMJ to him and tell him that the brig really sucks. he needs to spend the rest of his life on a rockpile at Levenworth. And yes, a PFC can hold a position in the military where his security clearance enables him to download this type of info. The fact that he was only a PFC says something about his qualities as a soldier. Probably another soldier putting his sexual perversion ahead of his profession.

    • bear

      gunner689,
      As an Honorably discharged military officer, I can assure you that there have been gays serving in our armed forces for many years. My service dates were from 1966 through 1969 and yes, I was in Nam. During my time in the military I knew of several individuals who were gay. It was not hard to spot, but there were no conflicts between them and the straights. Each stayed in their place and did their jobs. I NEVER had a complaint nor saw any complaint about any problems between any gay soldier and any straight soldier. To change anything about the military’s policy on “gays in the military” would cause problems. It should be left alone and the politicians should keep their damn noses out of it. When ever did a politician FIX anything?

      So, in my opinion, you can leave sexual preference out of this issue. From my viewpoint, this man saw things going on with our government and politicians and just might have felt like “we the people” might like to know how we are being manipulated. Consider that possibility before judging him as you have.

      • crystal

        I’m glad you didn’t have any problems with them, we did in our barracks. Mannings behavior about being homosexual while he was in the military doesn’t add to his innocence. Manning protested about being homosexual and whined and cried the entire time he was in. He wasn’t fit for the military.

      • LEVI506

        Manning down loaded many thousands of documents. Just like the reply to your post, you and he never read them. It’s obvious to the most casual observer that his intention was to hurt those he felt in authority and the country he blames for his problems. Under the UCMJ, he has no right as a citizen. His rights are now subservient to the military and as such he should be shot as a traitor!

      • USNpops

        I’m glad you are retired and no longer an officer serving in our military. Not because you feel DADT shud be left alone, as I feel the same, having known gays during my entire 20 years.
        What I do take offense at is the fact that you think his leaking classified information may be allright due to the public’s right to know.
        If you were still in the military and presented this idea at Officers Mess, I’m sure you would have some serious conversation with your superior officers at a later date. But maybe not in our present day officers corps. After all wasn’t the Fort Hood Killer an military officer, and in disfavor with his senior officers.

        • Claire

          The Fort Hood killer was in the military and was in disfavor with his senior officers–and these senior officer SHOULD have turned him in!!

  • FreedomFighter

    A speedy trial is in order.

    Laus Deo
    Semper Fi

  • Commonsense

    When you join the military you sign your rights as a civilian away. You are known as a piece of government property subjugated to the UCMJ-Uniformed Code Of Military Justice. It’s not like you have in civilian world. The Code tells you what your rights are. Everything that he is getting now, he knew he would get if he disobeyed orders. He didn’t have to sign up, but when he did he has to play by military law. That is why getting a tattoo in the military can get you brig time. It’s called defacing government property. Those are the rules. He signed up knowing what could happen. It’s too bad that people don’t realize that our current pres, along with several others, over the last century have done more damage to our country and it’s liberties than espionage has, and yet I hear their names cheered in history, sad, really.

    • crystal

      There are so many people in the civilian world who don’t have any idea of what the military is and what the military does. You’d probably be surprised that a lot of fools who never served in the military actually believe the movie “Stripes” is accurate.

      • Dan az

        crystal
        I find it amusing that even the commander and chief is unaware of the military law that he to can be tried for treason.And may very well be sooner than later.

  • Gregory M. Fota

    Innocent until proven guilty?…not for this poor sap. He probabloy is a traitor, but he still deserves his Constitutional right to a “speedy” trial. Oh, I forgot, he lives in “Obamaland” where 2+2=5. Meanwhile, Mr. Assange is out on bail ,and back to his same old dangerous antics. Unbelievable.

    • Angel Wannabe

      Gregory, thats what I don’t get, people claim these guys have comitted treason, but why then, didn’t the authorities do something about them, when they released the first batch of intel?_It doesn’t make sense.

      • USNpops

        Manning committed treason. He is an american military man.

        Assange is an austrailian, and a psychopath that cares for no one or nothing but his self. And he cannot be tried in this country for treason. nor in any of the countries where he has been in Europe. Which is why they are trying to get him on Sex Charges.

        His actions however treasonous they might be, are protected under the American Constitution”Right to a Free Press” and he calls himself a journalist. And anybody in this country that tries to do anything against his website can be tried under our FCC laws. So our own freedoms are being used against us by this Australian.

        • Angel Wannabe

          Well thought out USNpops!

  • Ancient Warrior

    The Bradley case is different from the Padilla case.

    Bradly is a soldier who disobeyed orders and committed other military crimes. If the Obama administration were competent, he would now be in solitary, only serving a life sentence or awaiting execution. I pity him, but in no way sympathize.

    Padilla is a terrorist who engaged in making war on the US. There are no rules for the treatment of terrorists, and the Bush administration was forced to make it up as they went along, with political second-guessers trying to undermine Bush’s presidency. With regard to terrorists, we owe them no special treatment. We owe ourselves to give them food, shelter and medical attention while we hold them. We should hold them as long as they are a threat, even if that means years and decades.

  • Harold Olsen

    I have no sympathy for Manning. He is a traitor. He sold classified documents and if convicted he deserves to be put to death. As for Assange, I would not be upset if a “shoot on sight” order were put out on him. I’m someone who normally opposes capitol punishment, but for scumbags like this, no punishment would be too harsh for either of them.

  • Michelle Sedivy

    I dont feel sorry for him, he betrayed his own country and has caused enormous damage to the U.S. Oh and he’s not being tortured he is in jail just like any other CRIMINAl is. He aint no hero and niether is Ass-ange. I hope they catch him and throw him in a brig and lock him up forever. We have laws that everyone must abide by especially in the military! He took an oath to his country and now there is damage left behind and he must pay for his actions. He is not God and niether is Ass-ange!

  • James Martin

    WOW…..that’s all I can say here, But, what about the inmates in the rest of the Prison Systems in America, they have way too much Freedom, they too need this type of Treatment, isolated for 23 hours of every day, although they are Inmates, what gives INMATES the RIGHT to have access to Television, Daily News Papers, Telephones, the Internet, and the list goes on, have Single Cells, for every Inmate, just like they did on Alcatraz……….it might send a message to the outside World.

    Give them 3 Hot Meals, a Cell/Bed, an Hour each day to Exercise, and 3 Showers a week….

    I do believe the Crime in this Country would come down!

    And then we have Death Row, what a Joke this is, wasting Tax Payers Money for 20+ Years, if they have been Convicted of a Crime, & Sentenced to Death….So be it, get rid of them within 30 days!

    • USNpops

      We need to treeat all lawbreakers like Sherrif Joe Arrapio in Arizona treats them. He doesn’t get too many of his bad guys back again. And the ACLU is on him constantly, among other liberal organizations. But he gets results.
      And when the complaints come in his answer is “You don’t like it, Dont’t come back”. And most of his inmates don’t.

      • Dan az

        USNpops
        You got that right!Wearing pink jamies and living in tents in the 110 degree temps here while working on the chain gang kinda gets the point acroos.Unlike the glass palace of obumers multi million dollar jail with TV game rooms private balconies and allot more.No wonder there is so much crime in his home state!

        • Effin Reed Tard

          Dan Az,

          Prisons are pretty much overcrowded in America today. It’s no picnic.

  • URKiddinMee

    Now all that needs to happen is to quit feeding this cockroach. If 23 hours per day in a cell is “unbearable,” take his sorry a z z out and SHOOT the traitor.

  • Mozy McCarroll

    For his crime he deserves imprisonment, but certainly not 23 hours’ solitary confinement! Solitary confinement is cruel and unusual punishment. This guy needs to pay for his crime, sure, but give him a chance.

  • 45caliber

    While I do believe that solitary confinement can be hard on people, I disagree that Manning is only someone trying to provide truth to the world. Too much of what he released has harmed national security – yours and mine.

    What he released about the politicians means nothing to me.

    • DaveH

      No, 45, people like you are endangering my security. Some day I and my children and grandchildren will have to pay the price for those of you who turned a blind eye to Government’s abuse of power.

    • USNpops

      We have no clue as to what the repercussions to this leakage will do in the world community in general. Some of the leaks have already caused threat on the lives of Government officials in the mid east countries. and this last round of leaks hasn’t been fully read yet.
      We may be waiting for the other shoe to drop in theis mess. Let’s just hope the shoe isn’t a nuke. After all ther is some stuf about Korea in there.

  • NADS

    I used to like you articles Bob, but lately I find them to be a bit to far out-there. I mean, quoting Salon.com, REALLY???

    And I wish civilians would take the time to LEARN just a little bit about the mititary. There is this little thing called the Uniform Code of Military Justice(UCMJ). In other words a US soldier DOESN’T have the same rights as you and me!!!! This guy did WRONG. And he will/should be punished by UCMJ standards not civilian.

    Instead of bitching about this a$$-wipe, why aren’t more people concerned about the Fort Hood shooter who should have been shot by a firing squad by now!!!!!!

    • DaveH

      NADS,
      Show me where in the Constitution that it says you no longer have Constitutional protection if you are in the military? And they swear to uphold the Constitution. Some upholding.

      • USNpops

        The UCMJ was established to do just what it’s name states. Prior to the UCMJ, the various services operated under some pretty antiquated rules.
        I heard but never had it proven, the a person in the Navy could be Keelhauled for certain indescretions right up to the 1940′s. It was acceptable for a senior person to beat his underlings for what he deemed misbehavior. A person could be given lashes for certain indescretions at sea. These Shipboard rules dated back to the english navy and sailing ships. And yes they were barbaric, but once you stepped aboard a ship those were the rules you lived by. The UCMJ change that, and made the military life less barbaric, and still maintained the strict chain of command needed to get the military mission accomplished. And it does have to reduce some of what we deem civil rights, in order to maintain the chain of command. When you go into the service you vow to live by the UCMJ, and uphold the constitution. And ther UCMJ is taught quite stringently in Boot Camp and during your entire military career.

        • Vicki

          Seems to me that were there is conflict between the UCMJ and the Constitution that your oath to uphold the Constitution would take precedence.
          Chain of command and all that.

          • Bruce D.

            Vicki what is going on with you. Now you find the chain of command in the military unconstitutional. That is outside the bounds of reality.

          • Vicki

            ??? What did you think I said?

          • DaveH

            Now Bruce is launching personal attacks on Vicki. Yet, he won’t acknowledge that fact because he is either too proud to admit to his faults or he is just plain ignorant.

          • Vicki

            DaveH says:
            “Now Bruce is launching personal attacks on Vicki.”

            And either failed to read my response or is too cowardly to respond.
            One thing I really like when they attack me personally is that I know I have won the debate and I can ignore them or not at my pleasure.

      • JeffH

        The military oath taken at the time of induction reads:

        “I,____________, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to the regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God”

        The Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) 809.ART.90 (20), makes it clear that military personnel need to obey the “LAWFUL command of his superior officer,” 891.ART.91 (2), the “LAWFUL order of a warrant officer”, 892.ART.92 (1) the “LAWFUL general order”, 892.ART.92 (2) “LAWFUL order”. In each case, military personnel have an obligation and a duty to only obey LAWFUL orders and indeed have an obligation to disobey UNLAWFUL orders, including orders by the president that do not comply with the UCMJ.
        The moral and legal obligation is to the U.S. Constitution and not to those who would issue unlawful orders, especially if those orders are in direct violation of the Constitution and the UCMJ.

        During the Iran-Contra hearings of 1987, Senator Daniel Inouye of Hawaii, a decorated World War II veteran and hero, told Lt. Col. Oliver North that North was breaking his oath when he blindly followed the commands of Ronald Reagan. As Inouye stated, “The uniform code makes it abundantly clear that it must be the Lawful orders of a superior officer. In fact it says, ‘Members of the military have an obligation to disobey unlawful orders.’ This principle was considered so important that we-we, the government of the United States, proposed that it be internationally applied in the Nuremberg trials.”
        http://www.crisispapers.org/texts/UCMJ.htm

        • Dan az

          JeffH
          military personnel have an obligation and a duty to only obey LAWFUL orders and indeed have an obligation to disobey UNLAWFUL orders, including orders by the president that do not comply with the UCMJ.
          That only works in the real world not in obomaland.Take laken for instance he tried to do the right thing and look what happened to him.

        • http://naver samurai

          Good post, fellow patriot! Dead center mass. Keep up the good fight, fellow patriot! FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!

    • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

      Dear NADS,

      I am not lost in a left/right paradigm. I do not toe the line of any party. I do not subscribe to conventional wisdom. I search for the truth, and go wherever it leads. I believe in the Constitution of our Founders. And when I find a writer that also believes in Constitutional principles, I’m not afraid to quote him. You’d probably be surprised at what all I read.

      Sorry that you are so concerned over whether something is left or right. You should be more concerned about what is correct.

      Best wishes,
      Bob

      • DaveH

        Excellent comment, Bob.

  • Angel Wannabe

    There is way too much co-incidence(and I don’t believe in co-incidence) between the Manning/Assange/ Wiki Leak, and the FFC trying to take over the net. A little research and Timing IS impeccable!_ Are/were they hired scapegoats by the upper echelon? So far I believe, correct me if I’m wrong, but so far it seems everything leaked was out before!

    • FreedomFighter

      Net take over coming for sure, Create Problem, Trigger Event, Take your freedom…never solve problem.

      Progressive/Socialist commi “sinistra” constricting freedom and liberty disguising it as something good for you – candied poison.

      Laus Deo
      Semper Fi

      • Angel Wannabe

        Freedon Fighter, Like The Government hasn’t done it before?

        • FreedomFighter

          Goverment itself is not evil. The leadership does evil, if we let them.

          Laus Deo
          Semper Fi

          • Dan az

            FreedomFighter
            very good point!

          • http://naver samurai

            HOOOOOOORRRRRRAAAAAAHHHHHHH!

    • Angel Wannabe

      AWB, STILL, All posts are mere opinions/speculation_Time will tell, “hopefully” the truth!

      • DaveH

        None of us will ever know the whole truth. I can’t even trust my brother or sister to tell the truth.
        But I must say that the internet forums are probably going to get us closer to the truth than any source of information we had in the past. That is why the leaders are working so hard to control the Internet. And they have been making that effort almost since its inception.

        • Angel Wannabe

          DaveH, Agreed.

        • JeffH

          DaveH, I agree wholeheartedly. We’ve been lied to for so long it becomes a matter of what is truth, especially where the media and the government are involved. Somewhere in all of this there is a stinking rat. Who’s the real rat? Was Manning the fall guy or did he act alone? Yes, the Constitution is supposed to be the “law of the land”…even though Washington DC may not think so…

          • DaveH

            Yeah, have you noticed how many of these dramatic events are performed by just one guy? The Kennedy Assassination, the Oklahoma City bombing, etc.? Manning must have been one very sneaky guy for pulling off all that theft of information all by himself.

          • JeffH

            DaveH, I have read a couple of small articles that Manning was supposed to be gay and upset with the military over DADT. Again, is that just propaganda or what?

  • http://www.grreatproducts.com bud

    Sure Livingston, and you believe when a man tells where he buried the little girl he raped, strangled and mutilated and how he did it he should be treated with respect. what should happen is that when the little girl’s body is found the killer should be in court within the month and no kissy ass judge to set him free, he should be raped with a baseball bat, strangled and his body disposed of at sea to feed the sharks.

    you bleeding liberals disgust me to no end. by the way the term “liberal” has been and is being misused. I am a liberal – that is I respect my neighbor and their right to live and work as they see fit. I don’t try to tell them how to live unless it impacts others. You so called liberals are just the opposite – you are basically communists with an inappropriate and misleading name tag of liberal.

    • libertytrain

      bud I think perhaps you don’t read this site often enough to have made that determination for yourself -

    • DaveH

      Bud,
      You are mixing apples and oranges and calling them tomatoes.
      I doubt anybody on this board would mind the swift and dramatic execution of a known murderer. But our Founders were wise enough to know that society is full of liars, and people that are quick to make snap judgements without all the facts. That’s why they tried so hard to set up a system whereby a person’s guilt was so carefully determined before punishment. Look at the videos I posted and ask yourself how that squares with the kind of justice that our Founders tried to establish. We are going down the tubes fast and I believe a large part of that is a result of people looking the other way as people in Government break moral codes with impugnity.
      The enablers deserve where we are headed. I don’t.

    • USNpops

      You need to read the difference between a liberal and a conservative. By you r description, you and I think alike, and I’m classified as a conservative..

      • DaveH

        Our forefathers disdained foreign entanglements. The True Conservatives believe in Limited Government and Freedom as established by the Founders of this country. Right Wingers have co-opted the term Conservative, just as Left Wingers have co-opted the term Liberal.

        • Vicki

          And both left and right wing masks the actual state of governments.
          On one side is 100% government and on the other is 0% government. People far older than our forefathers knew that without some government there could be no freedom. Our forefathers, being both smart and wise built a REPUBLIC for us if we could keep it.
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4r0VUybeXY

          A smart man learns from his mistakes.
          A wise man learns from the mistakes of others.
          Both require a memory of history.

    • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

      Dear bud,

      I have been called many things, but I can’t recall ever being called a liberal or a communist. If it is proven in a court of law that Manning committed treason, and the sentence handed down is execution, then so be it. However, I am hard-pressed to view his actions as treasonous. Embarrassing to the elected elites who want to hide behind executive privilege–yes, but not treasonous. Vice President Biden has said that the leaks were not harmful. As to the criminal element: If a rapist–or any other criminal–is convicted in a court of law, then I agree he should be given whatever sentence the law prescribes.

      My problem with the Manning situation—or the Padilla situation for that matter—is the treatment post-conviction. Unfortunately, you and many others who are posting here today have convicted Manning based on the limited information the government propaganda corporate media have fed you. I, for one, believe in the rule of law and the Constitution of our Founders. And the duplicity of elected elites in government demonstrated by the released cables reinforce my beliefs that government lies… all the time.

      And to co-opt your next argument: I love my country but I do not like my government. Nor do I trust it. As to my “liberal” bent, I suggest you spend a little time reading the whole of my postings. I believe you will reach a different conclusion.

      Best wishes,
      Bob

      • JeffH

        Bob, again I’ll agree, especially with your last paragraph.

      • Dan az

        Bob L
        I almost choked on the statement that you where a liberal.LOL!!!Whos been spiking the kool-aid with reverse osmosis?

  • DaveH

    What is wrong with you people? Our country is on the verge of Dictatorship, and you all blindly wave your flags, chanting rah,rah,rah, while our leaders do as they damn well please. I doubt that any of you have even read some of the released documents or viewed the videos, yet you are condemning a man to death for doing what he thought was a conscionable act.
    This is sickening. I hope some of you flag-waving miscreants get such a speedy trial some day.

    • DaveH
    • http://none Mike

      Dave, Scary isnt it? I made the comparison to Rome for a reason. If you study history you see this same behavior out of the lowest commoner in the cheap seats at the coloseum.Mike L.

      • DaveH

        Yes, Mike, very scary.

    • Kate8

      DaveH – Yes, I am also surprised at how so many have reacted to the media reports. I would have expected more from most of our posters than to pile on the poor guy with such a kneejerk response, knowing the extreme bias of the media and whose water they carry.

      Given the increasing probability of mayhem around the world, especially in America, it doesn’t bode well for the prospect of cool heads and reason prevailing. All the PTB have to do is incite hysteria and people lose their senses, rallying behind those we otherwise would never trust and descending into mob rule.

      Heaven help us if this is what we’ve come to.

      • DaveH

        For sure, Kate. I must say that if I wasn’t an American, and observed how we are into everybody’s business around the world, I wouldn’t like us much either. Some day the hatred we are building up around the world is going to come back to haunt us. We think we are invincible. We’re not.

        • Kate8

          DaveH – The really bad part about that is that it has never been the fault of America, per se. It is foreign powers who have used America as their battering ram, using our armies in our name to bully people around the world, like moving pawns on a chessboard.

          If left to Americans, I doubt this would have ever become policy. It is not in our interest to interfere in foreign governments, sent billions in taxpayer dollars to enrich tyrannical leaders (not to mention foreign bankers) and set ourselves up as world police.

          We’ve been set up to be the world’s bad guys, and those who did it are now offering the world the solution to U.S. “arrogance”.

          They’ve made us believe in prosperity through debt (??), had their way with us and now are pulling the rug out.

  • jopa

    The true criminals in all this are Dick Chaney and Tator Bush.They are being exposed of the war crimes and torture banned under the Geneva convention.Where was the outcry when our constitution was being trampled on by these war profiteers and mass murderers.Manning may be wrong but punishment before the trial is un-American.Assange has the right to publish the material he has obtained and I heard he did hold back on some information that could jeopardize people.So he probably isn’t all that bad.I believe in freedom of information, speech and the press.Quit acting like Nazi’s or are you one?

  • Terri

    He’s a traitor!! Simple. A political prisoner is not accorded the same rights as civilians. After working with the Navy for 30+ years it is my understanding that if you violate the UCMJ, you are GUILTY until proven INNOCENT! That is the way it has to be for the job that has to be done! Military personnel know that!! Our gov’t is too PC now. In most non-western countries he’d be dead by now. I had a Turkish Navy male petty officer student who secretly got married to an American US Navy female petty officer student. When their superiors found out, they were gone! He was returned to Turkey and faced death. If he was allowed to live and to atay in their navy and worked the rest of his career, he could not repay his government the money they paid the USA for his training! His “wife” was immediately discharged from our Navy and would lose her US citizenship if she did not divorce him. She’d have to live with his family in Turkey in a shack with dirt floors with her 2 American kids. And as a Turkish citizen, she’d have a hard time getting a visa to come back here and visit. Everyone that enters the military knows the consequences of their actions. I have also traveled and lived all over the world. Spend some time in other countries (not as a privileged American throwing your money around) and see if you don’t kiss the ground when you return home. Now, especially, is the time to be grateful for our freedoms.
    That idiot traitor is not noble, gay has nothing to do with anything, and he conciously gave up his freedoms! No matter the content, he stole and sold secret documents!
    We aren’t perfect! But we can have input to our government and the internet will help keep the public informed.

    • Vicki

      Terri writes:
      “A political prisoner is not accorded the same rights as civilians. ”

      Tyrants and dictators love this kind of thought.

      DaveH what is that quote from Hitler again?

    • http://www.boblivingstonletter.com/ Bob Livingston

      Dear Terri,

      You write: “A political prisoner is not accorded the same rights as civilians.”

      You are correct. There are many political prisoners currently rotting in jails in Cuba, Venezuela and China who have learned the same thing. That is not supposed to be the case in America, though.

      Best wishes,
      Bob

  • Violet

    This entire forum is flawed at best. The bottom line is guilty until proven innocent seems to be the standard line. Meanwhile, this government is busy scanning, molesting and brainwashing those who will go for it. Why bother telling you people the truth? You wouldn’t know the truth if it hit you up side the head! So go on and live your sheepish braindead lives until they collect you, put your sorry behinds into the boxcars and cart you off to the local FEMA camps. Done with this ridiculous reasoning on this stupid forum.

    • Bob Wire

      don’t take your toys and leave just yet!

      and I agree, due process in some timely fashion is demanded. Has he been provide that?

      I don’t know. ~ And as far as his presence treatment, deprived contact, I consider marginal treatment at best.

      With any lock-up situation, they can find endless ways to punish, has been my experience along life’s highway. They can take your cloths away and bring the cell temperature down to 68 degrees which is much worse still or deprive you light or both.

      The Army is mad at him! I am not convinced the administration knows of these conditions that the inmate is presently being exposed to.

      This man does not have Constitutional Rights but lives under the Uniform Code of Military Justice and subject to all it’s rules. It is a dictatorship and life is very simple. The only thing you can’t do is stop doing what you are told to do.

      I’m sure the military feels that Bradley Manning has violated his oath as a solider and he will be made an example of for others to know and understand such behavior will not be tolerated.

      The final chapter is yet to been written on this matter.

      But the truth has never been popular, it’s taken me years to come to some understanding of “truth” as we seem to all enjoy our lies much more.

  • http://www.drbiofeedback.com George von Hilsheimer, PhD

    I was an E2 and had a Top Secret Clearance at the 513th MI Group in
    Oberursel, Germany in 1957-59. I was drafted, and did not give away any of my rights under the Constitution. Innocent until proven guilty is a fundamental American right. The fact that our rights are frequently bent and broken by criminal government employees does not excuse repetition of the crime. Regardless of how heinous the accusation all Americans have a constitutional right to trial. It does not suprise me how many “Good Germans” there are on this list, they merely demonstrate the universality of cowardice and original sin. As my fellow Krauts say, “(offensive words removed)”. Kein Lecher

    • http://none Mike

      George, Pleas elaborate on the german you use at the bottem of the comment. I have tried to translate it but my program seems to have a glitch. I feel it is pertinent to your point. But I would like to know more before I respond. Mike L.

  • nadzieja batki

    How do you all think Manning should be punished? The question is to all those that feel that the military is being mean to Manning.

    Who gave permission to Manning and Assange to put all our lives and our soldiers’ lives in danger?

    It is ridiculous how humans can build their lives on lies and expect to have a good life.

  • http://na. Robert Bradfield

    Hi it is that South African again. I am amazed that a private can lay his hands on such important information that can embarrass a government. If it is true, then whoever should have controlled the originals should also be put away for many years. In South Africa one has to be cleared and allowed to read classified documents and those are never allowed to leave the facility where they are kept, neither are they allowed to be copied. Can the South African government be better than yours, I hope not.

    • USNpops

      It has not been made clear how the information was transported, but in our present age of computers, one could easily get 4GB of information on a small card and hide it well enuf to steal it and get it off the base.
      And I suspect that Manning was trusted enough so that he was not given a great deal of day to day scrutiny. Our modern technology is unfortunately a double edged sword. Both useful and potentially dangerous at the same time.

  • Doug Rodrigues (Mil Vet)

    Bradley Manning brought this upon himself. Out of necessity, the Military has their own rules of conduct which Manning failed to follow. We should feel sorry for him now because in a civilian setting he’d be treated better? Manning isn’t a civilian. If he wanted to be treated like one, he shouldn’t have joined the Army.

  • JohnnyK

    Why not just give this guy a fair trial instead of keeping him locked up like an animal? If the government has a case against him, let them proove it.

    • USNpops

      His will be a fair trial in a military tribunal. But it takes a great deal of time for both sides to prepare their defense of their infomration in the case.
      No different than if you are in an auto accident and it takes 2 years for your lawyer and the other person lawyer to be ready for trial. And I know this how????

      • Vicki

        And you spent 2 years in solitary confinement waiting. Nice.

  • http://none bmarfra

    Anyone can exercise in the space that he takes up
    I still believe that people are innocent until proven guilty
    I believe that the death penalty should not be used on a person claiming innocence without dna evidence now that it is available

    the boy should be tried for treason period but with thorough investigation since how did this pfc even have access to what he allegedly gave away? Isn’t it enough that congress and media are destroying the very constitution and what it stands for that we have to let them and help them do it????????

  • p brown

    More computer access is probably what concerns authorities, hence the isolation. I’m glad they’re addressing his mental condition, and they also need to concern themselves with his citizen’s right to a quick & speedy trial, or will he be (more appropriately for treason act) court marshaled in military court? The Big White Elephant in the room is who else is connected toy this leak. A PFC doesn’t have enuf security clearance to access this info: Look to higher & GS ranks for the leak source.

    Fry Assange for terrorist acts towards America & the world. He’s essentially crying “fire” in a crowded theatre … an abuse of free speech.

    • Vicki

      I take it you dont like whistle blowers much do you?

  • Jeff

    Military justice works differently than civilian proceedings. Seems like extremely harsh measures for someone not convicted of a crime, and I’m not sure what good it does. But if Manning was the source of the leak, maybe he should have thought of the consequences before he leaked the documents.

  • DaveH
    • http://none Mike

      That article has the right of it. But it seems there are only a few of us here that even understand it much less find any support for it.We have been conducting shadow operations since the end of WW2. Now when some of the things our goverment does comes out into the light we see the roaches headed under the blanket of National Security.

      Even more disturbing is the last few lines of that article where Russia and China seem to be applauding this action by us. Didnt we just slam China for their sensoring Google. Nope this looks to them like do as we say not as we do incidents that we all seem to hate so much. Not only that this reactionary actions we are takeing are makeing us look like buffons to the rest of the world. No wonder Iran and N.Korea are saber rattling right now. They see this wandering aimless forign policy we have going on and they see the time is ripe. Mike L.

  • DaveH
  • jerseyjohn

    Only U.S.A haters can show sympathy for this “trying to make a name for himself” traitor.
    Only the mush headed college crowd ( remember: “it would be cute to elect a black president?” but could not name the vice president candidate?) who have accomplished absolutely nothing , but think that they are entitled to a lousy opinion -and vote. Get real!
    This so called soldier is a wussss. I would not want him in a foxhole in Korea with me. I am a Korean War veteran and I am ashamed of our cowardly, totally clueless young population who would faint after just one day of basic training.
    What I definitely hope will happen as the totally clueless generation matures, they will finally crawl out of their irresponsible cocoons and emerge as responsible citizens who will choose to make a living in a anti- democrat/socialist America. All they have to do when getting their first real paycheck is to look at the income tax deduction that takes money from their family and redistributes it to people who have never worked a day in their life and have been on welfare for three generations. Their daughters irresponsibly breed three or four children that they cannot hope to support. The sons drop out of school thru laziness and fill our jails because they have no skills or inclination to do a good day’s work.
    One can hope.
    jerseyjohn

    • DaveH

      Only a USA hater can aid and abett the leaders to trample our Constitutional rights. I’m talking about you, John.

    • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Linda

      you are so right it really upsets me I have been working all my life so we can have these creatures here that we support, THE LAZY NO GOOD GOOFBALLS!!!!

  • William Barry

    Manning’s isolation is just as much protection as it is punishment. He has been declared a traitor, and that makes him a target. If Manning were to meet a sudden and untimely death while in military custody, what would that say about the integrity of the military penal system? Nothing good, I would say.

  • chuckb

    IF OUR GOVERNMENT REALLY WANTS TO KEEP OUR CLASSIFIED SECRETS …SECRET, THEY SHOULD HAVE THEM KEPT IN THE SAME PLACE THAT OBAMA’S COLLEGE TRANSCRIPTS AND BIRTH CERTIFICATE ARE KEPT

    • Effin Reed Tard

      Chuckb !

      You genius ! maybe Obama’s birth certificate is among the documents !

  • Raggs

    http://www.patriotupdate.com/271/un-plans-internet-regulation

    Maybe but I doubt some of you nutcase bastards will see the writing on the wall?

    Oh I know its for our own good and we are too f-n stupid!
    obama must be dealt with!

    • Vicki

      From the link Raggs provided

      “WikiLeaks sparks push for tighter controls.

      The United Nations is considering whether to set up an inter-governmental working group to harmonise global efforts by policy makers to regulate the internet.”

      Not like we didn’t see THAT coming :)

      • Kate8

        Vicki – Notice how events just happen to occur just as the PTB are pushing their agenda. You don’t suppose it’s all contrived and arranged, do you?

        We need to really start looking at the big picture here, instead of reacting like sheep. We’re being played. The trap has been sprung, and the noose is tightening.

        As long as we continue to behave as we’re programmed, we’ll be treated as livestock.

        • JeffH

          Kate8, all the more reason to stay ever vigilant.

        • Vicki

          Kate8 says:
          “Vicki – Notice how events just happen to occur just as the PTB are pushing their agenda.”

          Oh yes I had noticed :) The first time I started noticing these things was with the gun control agenda. There was always a noticeable increase in the number of crimes committed by people and the use of a gun was emphasized either in the news or just because the editors selected those news items.

          I have noticed recently another marked increase in the reports of crimes with guns. That must be in prep for the Small Arms Treaty.

    • http://none Mike

      Raggs, But just look how they treated Bob just for hime asking them to think. I wish I could climb back in that warm safe box I had before. But being cursed with a little intellegence I just had to start looking and asking questions. Now I realize that warm safe box was just an illusion. There is allways a hand to be played by someone somewhere. If you scratch the surface sometimes the illusion is dispelled. But no one wants to belive there might be more to this than the media and our goverment wants us to know. Mike L.

      • Vicki

        So much like the Matrix. :) Then again that might have been the point of the movie. Crafty authors. Got it right by the hidden censors :)

        • http://none Mike

          Vicki, You got the refrence :) Not suppriseing though I think our minds are wired the same way.The world thats been pulled over you eyes. To hide the fact that you are imprisond. Mike L.

  • Fartherright

    A fitting sentence for PFC Manning would be life in prison. Sharing a cell with three very LARGE gay men who all have aids. A bit harsh ? I put the welfare of four hundred million Americans before the feelings of one traitor. A death sentence would only make him a martyr for the America hating left. That French Marxist Assange needs to be dealt with as well. Most of the cultures we are at odds with only see us as weak. To them, force and cruelty equal strength. Fear and respect can be interchangeable. Being polite and correct only gets you extinction. I’m not advocating anything but an immediate response to wrong-doing with overwhelming force. Remember that Vlad’s subjects considered him to be fair. We can go on being fair too, just not very nice anymore. We WILL get respect. We are the most humanitarian nation on earth but that does, and should not include being the most wussy.

    • DaveH

      You really put the Welfare of your Fellow Americans ahead of anything else? Then maybe you should take off the blinders and not enable our leaders to trample the Freedom that established our country.
      Thanks to ignorant people who think they are at a football game rooting on their country’s team, our military is into other countries’ business around the world. At the same time the Liberals and the right-wing Military statists are impoverishing our country, we are building up enemies around the world, much like the Roman Empire did. It is just a matter of time before they get fed up with our meddling and bring it home to us. And then you will really have something to cry about. We have managed for about 140 years to avoid war on our own soil. I think that may end sooner than we think.

    • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Linda

      so has any one even read these so called leaks I think it is all bull lies coming from the biggest liar of all.

  • Larry

    O’er the land of the free and the home of GARBAGE and lies. What a heinous double standard to fail to give this man a speedy trial and why would there even be anything for him to leak if our hallowed America was so full of lies and deceit. Land of the free, indeed!

    • EDWARD

      Larry, are you not free to spout off?

      • Vicki

        He might be atm but that soldier sure isn’t. How are we to hear his side of this story? Thru dozens of government employees? And we should trust them why? Remember what happened to Oswald? That was so terribly convenient.

        • DaveH

          Yeah, one man (Ruby) was willing to give up his life or freedom because he loved John Kennedy so much. Can you imagine, Vicki, the extreme naivity of the people who believed that?

  • e jeyes

    He should be quickly sent to trial in a military court. If he was in fact the source of the leaks, he should live out the rest of what life is afforded him on death row. The charges should include treason and the punishment for treason by a member of our armed forces must needs be a death sentence. I have a suspicion it would be commuted to life in prison. Solitary is the appropriate way to deal with a security threat such as this man is likely to pose. He is not locked in a cave. He has a place to sleep, toilet, food, and it is not 24 hours a day solitary, he has interaction or movement to another location for an hour a day. This spoiled-child looking man may have gotten our allies killed and/or truly tortured!!! He does not deserve our sympathy. He needs to be tried as soon as possible!

  • James A. Bair, Jr.

    Release him to the general prison population and give him equal treatment.

  • Allan Halbert

    I disagree with the complaints in this article. If this is part of libertarian thinking, it makes no sense to me. If you want to reform miltary SOP, fine, but this soldier needs to take responsibility for any violations he has committed. I’m sure the ACLU and friends will provide all necessary whining about his incarceration.

    -Isolation? That’s by definition part of going to jail. Brig has always been harsh. He had the opportunity to weigh the benefits and risks. It was his responsibility to know the rules and understand the consequences. Japan has less recidivism partly because of isolation. A whole lot worse punishment may be in the offing depending on what he is prosecuted for.

    -Can’t exercise? Or doesn’t have access to special equipment, courts, etc? I don’t think there should be an obligation to provide equipment or assistance with exercise. If a man wants to do calisthenics in his allotted space, he should be allowed to.

    Anti-depressants? If involuntary, it’s wrong unless considered essential or life saving by those responsible for his safety. If he wants them, it’s his choice.

    • http://none Mike

      Allan, Anti-depresants if given the right ones and in large enough dosages can cause alot of the behavior that we are seeing in him.Also they sprang out of the same mind control experiments of the 60′s and 70′s In other words working over his mind while he is in solatary confinement he could be made to tell you he was a parrot for that matter.No I have a feeling something is being buried here and it must be pretty damming for the behaviors we are seeing around it. Mike L.

  • EDWARD

    Who cares why he did it?

    It’s done, he’s done…be gone.

    (By the way “LH Oswald” commentor, being held for over seven months
    is not ‘Killing them quickly’.)

    • http://none Mike

      Edward, He was killed long before he was to testify though.And dead men tell no tails. Mike L.

  • DaveH

    I think there are three kinds of people who are calling on this board for the execution of Manning.
    1) Those who are linked closely to the leadership of the country and stand to benefit from the secrecy.
    2) Those who were directly involved in the war actions and thus prefer not to believe that they may have risked their lives for nothing more than the enrichment in power and money of the leaders and their crony capitalists.
    3) And finally, those who have just innocently bought into the propaganda that, somehow, fighting in a fanatically religious Islamic country will somehow make the Islamics like us more and thus secure our future freedom.
    Unfortunately, those in the number one category are not likely to admit to it. And the odds of changing the minds of the number two category are low, given the mental pain it would cause them to accept the reality of that useless war.

    As far as whether or not Manning is a Traitor, he will hardly get a fair trial on this board by people who don’t have even the slightest clue of the contents of those documents that he is accused of releasing. I sure wouldn’t want most of you on my jury if I was accused of a crime I didn’t commit. On the other hand, if I was guilty, I would probably be better off with you on my jury as you would be more likely to commit a snap judgement without the facts that may actually work in my favor.
    Remember that Colonel Claus von Stauffenberg (the guy who tried to assasinate Hitler) was considered to be a Traitor by most German citizens.
    So you can blindly accept whatever the leaders want you to believe, or question authority. If you persist in the former, it is just a matter of time before some Hitler-like leader comes along and takes our country down that dark path to totalitarianism.
    By the way, I consider the real Traitors to be those people that bury their heads in the sand, chant mindlessly, and enable our leaders to walk hard on the Constitution, thus allowing our country to move ever further away from the Freedom which our founders endowed this country with.

  • Effin Reed Tard

    I guess we will never really know what possessed Manning to release all that secret info.

    Manning should never have released all that info to Assange . He should have just followed orders and kept quiet. He’s in prison now !

    Why try to embarrass the lawfully elected officials of the US government ? The American people put them in office – where is the profit ? He just embarrassed the majority of Americans that voted Obama in…..

    Well there you go, dumb ass voters ! Even a effin r tard could see Obama sucks!

  • jopa

    Here we go again condeming the little guy(Manning) for not following a code of conduct and exposing the higher -ups for not following a code of conduct and they may have been embarrassed.Mannings and Assange’s exposures didn’t cause anyone to die.I think we have this ass backwards and the wrong people are locked up as usual.

  • jopa

    I usually try and put up an opposing stance on what Mr. Livingston prints but he has nailed this one right on the mark.Great article.

  • Another Voice

    Squashing dissenters is nothing new in the USA. But, thankfully, it has become much more difficult for our government to do it in secret.

  • DaveH

    I want this guy on my side:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlMz2sCDCA4

    • JeffH

      It takes all kinds.

  • DaveH

    Maybe this will wake up some of the rabid right-wingers (I won’t hold my breath though):
    http://mises.org/daily/4872

  • L. Banks

    Beware of the wolf in sheep’s clothing – Julian Assange.

  • Concerned American

    Some solider you are private manning. Private manning, you need to force the guards to murder you like the wild order following animals they are. You signed up for potential combat in the US armed forces where you could have your legs blown out from under you by a IED. When you did what you did, surely you realized what the punishment could be? Surely you understand you can’t bargain with these people. Exercise and stop taking your meds. Force them to beat the crap out of you. Force them to murder you. Stop acting like a civilian and start acting like a soldier.

  • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Linda

    we can thank the dictator osama obama for that poor young mans freedom taken away and it will get worse soon he will be coming after all of the people that totally hate him as i do

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