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CRS says healthcare bill would cover illegal aliens

August 31, 2009 by  

CRS says healthcare bill would cover illegal aliensThe Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) has long criticized the proposed House healthcare bill for its provisions to cover illegal immigrants, and its position has now been supported by a report from the Congressional Research Service (CRS).

CRS is the research arm of the U.S. Congress, and its study has found that under the Affordable Health Care Act of 2009, proposed by the House of Representatives, illegal aliens would potentially be able to receive benefits under the so-called public option.

It has also established the bill does not include a mechanism to prevent illegal immigrants from applying for and receiving "affordability credits" that would help low-income individuals purchase private health insurance.

"These loopholes were intended to extend benefits to illegal aliens while allowing Members of Congress to deny those facts to the American people," says Dan Stein, president of FAIR.

"It is time for the politicians to close [them]," he adds.

CRS is calling on Congress to adopt clearer language that would unequivocally make illegal aliens ineligible for publicly funded or subsidized healthcare and require stringent verification criteria. It also wants a five-year waiting period introduced for legal immigrants to prevent abuses of the system through "healthcare tourism."

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  • http://donthaveone Beberoni

    Well somebody has been paying for their health care for years. Many come over here pregnant and go to the ER in California and Texas and have babies, and they have no money, so somebody has been paying for it for years, and I know its not the Hospitals or the doctors. Myself and all of us in my family have to pay for the bills we incur, so why should non citizens be given more than citizens? It just doesnt make any sense, but that is part of the reason they flock here illegally, because they get everything given to them. My gosh, even our social security monies are given to them for things, and after paying into it all my life, it looks like its not going to be around for me to collect any of it, but yet these illegals who have never paid a cent into it, are taking out of it. What the hell is the matter with the people in charge of things in this country? I just dont understand it.

    • NANCY VANTWIST

      Many of our natural born citizens and American New ‘poor’ are denyed health care whilst the Illegals come in pregnant which makes them natural citizens. These same people bring in their entire families…illegals in my mind. I’m an elderly Natural Born Citizen and one side of the family have been here before the American Revolution and faugh also in that war and nobody in our family have ever been on the ‘dole’ even when facing poverty situations. We took care of our own, even now. And I am pi&^% off at what I see these people getting free. And then, instead of contributing to the country they sneak into….they send their $$$ back to Mexico or wherever and boost up the economy of that country while sucking the life out of this country. Just go into a hospital imergency room and see how many are “using” it…I’m mad as hell!!

      • Turk

        No body is getting anything for free…We exploit their cheap labor, paying them below minimum wage(cleaning our toilets, picking up our fruits,etc)…and they are using our emergency rooms when they get sick. However they are also buying food, paying rent and contributing to our economy in many ways…Furthermore, we Americans, as human beings must to be more compassionate, act more respectful and caring manner towards each other also think thru before we open our mouths and blame on innocent people, exploited by the system, for our miseries which they have nothing to do with.

        • Jeff

          Nobody I know is opposed to immigration. I have friends who have immigrated, but immigrated and became citizens legally. These legal immigrants are opposed to illegal immigration also. Yes, we should be compassionate, but we should not cast our pearls to the dogs (figuratively, I am not trying to insult anyone here). Immigrate, but immigrate legally. We must take care of our own children first. Then, after our own are fully cared for, we can help others in need.

          • Tammy

            Very true, Jeff!

          • http://personellibertydigest glenn warne

            WE DO NOT NEED ANYMORE PEOPLE FROM OTHER COUNTRIES. When we had more land then people we needed the others to help fill the land. We have enough people. Now we need to educate our people. Not hire from other countries saying we can’t find the right people here.
            I agree with the Rev. Jackson whats wrong with teaching the people that are already here!!??
            We do not need any more “Little My coutries” springing up in neighborhoods that have been established for over 200 yrs because a new group of immigrants have made a new slum.
            Let’s get over helping the other countries and Help the People that are here already!

        • http://anita.green@lmco.com ann

          We loose more Americans a year – killed by illegals on American soil – than we have lost soldiers in this 8 year war – and our soldiers were in a terrorist nation.
          Look it up – just type in ” Americans killed by Illegals ” or
          illegals killing Americans – lots of ways to look it up – pages and pages of pictures of children, their mothers raped beaten, strangled
          the elderly being killed in the neighborhoods they grew up in -
          how can you say we need to make them citizens – we need to stop
          giving them employement, housing, & free aid – they need to go home and come back in the right way – with a background check & legal – For all the parents of the murdered children found in ditches’for all the parents of the drunk drivers here illegally that have killed our kids, for all the children whose parents have been murdered for pennies in their house –

          The President of this country owes American citizens and their families the right to live.. We should lock up every employer – every landlord anyone that harbors or employes any illegal without a complete background check- but yet we let them cross the bordor, work meager jobs – sell drugs on the side – bring all their family here & provide our emergency rooms as their health care – as they increase in gangs, and destruction of neighborhoods, our ellected official that are paid by us to protect us turn a blind eye to all in the name of some cheap labor.
          look this up – page after page of sad, sad pictures of murdered cops
          just pulling them over for speeding – do some research .

          • Shirley Grady

            Ann – beautifully spoken and oh so true!! How can we have such
            airheads (Americans) who cannot see what you are saying? Nicely
            written and factual. Thank you for joining in – hope everyone
            reads your remarks.

        • shannon

          turk, first they are here illegally. do you understand illegal? second let’s knock off they pay rent buy food etc. they must do that in their own country. they are invaders of our economy. teh difference from an armed invader and these illegals is only the fact they (for the most part) are not carrying guns. yet they are getting free medical, walefare, food stamps, and teh list goes on. in north korea, cross te border illegally and you get 12 years, here in california, you get a drivers license, free medical, social security, and the list goes on. you might wake up when your job goes to those pay undercutting illegals. it is estimated there are 20 million not the 12 million congress is stuck on. third, they have invaded our country. face it. now if they invade your home will you still defend them or are you really one of them?

        • Shirley ELTON

          What cheap labor?You are an idiot!They are cleaning houses & offices here in Amarillo Tx for $13-15 an hr.Driving new trucks & wearing designing jeans even I can’t afford.I know plenty Americans who clean to make a living so don’t tell me it’s jobs that noboby wants.They have even learned how to work the system for the unearned income tax refund credit.They get back $3500-4000 they never paid in.They are working at Tyson Beef & sending their cks back to banks in Mexico &”when they get enough they will go home & live like kings.”Their words not mine.They apply for food stamps & everything else they can get.The women come across the border in labor pains to have their babies here so their babies will be U.S. citizens & they won’t be sent back.You know nothing.we have killings here every weekend & it is them.They rob,steal & know nothing will happen to them.They have no DL or INS & run into our vehicles & property & we have to pay for it.The police don’t even arrest them because the GOVN won’t let them.Try doing that in Mexico.You would still be in jail !!!

        • duif100

          The US is destroying Mexico by importing the best hardworking citizens they have into the US. Mexico is left with only good for nothing lazy bums who do not work and do not help to get their own economy off the ground.
          The US is enriching itself by destroying the Mexican economy. It is terrible that we entice the hardworking Mexicans to come to the US with free healthcare, retirement, etc.
          The US should be ashamed of itself for depleting the Mexican labor resources and sending Mexico into an economic tailspin. What has Mexico left after we are finished. It is shameful.
          And I believe that the moral obligation of the US is not to destroy other countries or our neighbours. Congress, what has Mexico done to deserve this?

          • JD

            You’re joking, of course! Illegal means just that…there is no excuse for breaking the law…

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          I would have to question is what you say is true. They come here and make what you say is basically poor wages, but are 10 times of that from where they come from. They live 10 to 20 in one trailer, and send over 50 percent of what they make back home. This is not good for the economy in any way shape or means. Then you add the free medical and everything else they receive, which is free to them, but costs all of us. When you add millions of them running around and the billons of dollars we all dole out to pay for them, you need to think again about them being good for our economy. Their actions raise all of our medical costs, and right now it seems the hot topic is health care and high costs, and these illegals are a direct high contributor to medical costs being high. You are gravely mistaken with your comments.

        • Robert

          You know I can tell you have no knowledge of what goes on in this country and I can’t understand you. This is America not some third world country, we don’t exploit them, some companies do so they can make large profits and put it in overseas banks, I’am a marine combat vet and I damn sure did not fight for this country to have it taken over by bunch of illegal imigrants. We’ll keep on and we’ll be like Briton with so many imigrants there afraid to speak out against the bad situation. WAKE UP THIS IS AMERICA.

        • judy

          Here’s some compassion, neuter the males…..I show compassion in 2 ways here, the kids won’t suffer and for the people that do deserve health care that is LIVING here legally would get the care. I as a tax payer and I am speaking for MANY LEGAL TAX PAYERS are sick and tired of paying for these people. YOU had the babies YOU pay for them, if not the women need to sleep with their legs clos.ed.
          Where is the compassion for my husband that needs surgery, cannot afford it, but we pay for these people breeding like ra…s.
          2 of my best friends families LOST thier homes in Texas because the hospital closed up, yes for obvious reasons. The nurse that worked their went to school for a very long time to become a nurse, gets a job loses it because of these so called anchor babies. Do the parents show any compassion for her??? HELL no they don’t.
          There was an interview of an illegal Mexican giving birth at one of the hospitals in Texas, seen this on t.v., the interviewer asked the pregnant woman how many kids she had…6, this would be her 7th, interviewer asked the woman too…how do you feel about not paying this bill, the tax payers of the U.S. are paying it, he reply was “I pray for them, God will take care of them”…in other words piss on them, they can be dying in a gutter.
          I guess if there was a state I could go leech from, not having to pay for my husbands surgery guess I would do it too, it really is our fault for being so ignorant. What our government is basically saying to the LEGAL working TAX payers here is “Piss on you, we do not give a damned about you tax payers, my family and I are covered, we don’t really honestly care”.

    • http://personellibertydigest glenn warne

      I agree with you that their is something wrong when Illegals have more benefits then those of us that pay into the system.
      Medicare is available to anybody who has been here for over 2yrs, doesn’t matter if you didn’t put a dime in you get covered.
      Secondly, the U.S. federal gov’t reinburse’s States for illegal’s treated in Hospitals, However thee are over 30 Hospitals that have gone Bankrupt from treating Illegals and not being paid.
      I just hate this, why do we do this and then the Mexican gov’t COMPLAINS THAT WE DON’T TREAT THEIR ILLEGALS WITH RESPEAT!

      • Foolpatrol

        Pure BS. You are not eligible for Social Security or Medicare if you don’t pay anything into the system! Turn off Fox and pick up a book!

        • shannon

          sorry but your wrong. i know one personally. she came here legally , got a greeeen card and worked on it until it expired. she did not renew it. she had a social security card as she worked in a hospital. no one ever investiaged the fact there were no records she ever went home. she retired and draws social security.

          • Foolpatrol

            Ah, and how many years did she pay into the system while she worked in the hospital before she retired?

          • Smilee

            40 quarters, that’s ten years, just like everyone else, same for Medicare

        • BOE

          Oh no no Foollproof….illegals do recieve benefits such as disability from medicare and medicaid. They do recieve section 8 housing ,food stamps.baby care,..and I have been in health care my whole adult life.RN and have done home health where they get all the benefits,I have done nursing home where there is such brain damage from etoh abuse, I have worked in the ER where everything from drunk driving to spousal abuse to drug dealers come in cut up or shot up. We pay for it. If you have worked and paid into I hope you will get a little something out of it. That money can only go so far. Yeah..we are speading the wealth around…Boe

          • Smilee

            You need 40 quarters paid in to get Medicare even in disability, Medicaid can be gotten based on lesser requirements but your assets and income has to be low.

          • Smilee

            By the way what proof do you have that they are illegals, or do you just assume that

          • judy

            Thank You Boe, amazing how many people deny that the illegals are leaching, but our government is not doing something about it, the reason?? The government is sure they and theirs is taken care of, so the rest of us LEGAL working tax payers can go to hell..honestly why should they care?
            The illegals works the fields, ok, some say they pay taxes, how much can they possibly be putting back into the economy with being paid minimum wage, some having 6+ kids? They get food stamps, don’t pay for the birth of their kids, low income housing, along with free dental….how does one figure they pay into the economy?
            Where I live in an agricultural area, you have to be extra careful if you work late at night, they drink, drive, NO insurance….they cause an accident…OH WELL. I know of one illegal that has been pulled over by a cop, of course no insurance, no I.D. the cop doesn’t bother giving him a ticket, why bother he won’t go to court, who is going to chase him down? The insured persons rates goes up, because of this type of crap going on.

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          then you fool yourself old fool. There are thousands of them that are getting social security money everyday, and it has been that way for years. You better check your facts before you open your mouth, because you just made a fool of yourself. Facts are millions and millions of dollars of social security money is being spent on care for illegal aliens, and its getting larger all the time. You my friend, are either uneducated in this, or just plain stupid. But you are definately wrong.

          • Smilee

            and just where are your facts, fact is you have none and not much you said is true or in keeping with the law

          • judy

            Thank You Beboroni…..smilee is probably an illegal, amazes me the people that sleep under rocks…….

      • eyeswideopen

        Eigibility: 65 yrs of age, US citizen or permanent legal resident for 5 continous yeaqrs and they have paid Medicare Taxes for at least 10 years. That statement right out of the original Medicare bill.. sorry to disappoint you, just giving you the facts.

        • Foolpatrol

          Facts are always disappointing when all you listen to and spew are misinformation, hatred and Fox Talking Points.

    • shannon

      Beberoni, that someone has been the people that are paying for health insurance already through higher rates. the cost to the american people has been estimated as a total cost (which includes all costs for them) as 338 billion or more each year. there is a cry that insurance rates are climbing all the time and that is because illegals get free emergency service. it is past time there is NO benifits illegals can get. nothing, nada. they are in effect invaders of our economic system. in california, the debit the state has could be reduced by stopping any and all aid or subsidaty to them. if that were stopped and they had to pay just as you do for hospital care rates would drop. the loss of income for care must come from somewhere as you say and higher costs to the paying customers is the only way.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Exactly, it comes from your pocket and mine, and Im tired of it. Ted Kennedy seemed to want to do so much as to giving our money to illegals, lets take some of the Kennedy fortune and subsidize them, because sorry, I dont want my money going there, but they take it anyways, and Im sick of it.

  • Foolpatrol

    “Illegal aliens would potentially?” More irresponsible misinformation, just like the “Death Panels.” If there is such a “loophole,” fix the hole! Don’t throw out legislation that will save AMERICAN LIVES!

    Under current law, which went into affect long before the Obama Administration, anyone who presents in an emergency room is entitled to life sustaining treatment, no questions asked. So, we should scrap potential healthcare for all Americans based on half truths and the desire by some to see President Obama fail?

    Private insurers convene the “Death Panels” which place price tags on our very lives! Every day private insurers decide who is worthy of coverage and who is denied due to preexisting conditions, family history and genetics, lifestyle choices, weight and even credit scores. Private Insurers tell us which doctors we can see, which hospitals and other healthcare providers we can access, how much it will pay those providers, which medications it will cover, which medications we are required to experiment with before we can step up to the medication that our physicians initially determined to be most effective, which alternatives physicians present to patients, which procedures are covered, which procedures are labeled experimental despite successful clinical outcomes and denies coverage for those life saving procedures, which specialists we can see and under what circumstances we can see them, which procedures are more cost effective aka cheaper even in the wake of record profits, and whether we are candidates for transplants and other life prolonging procedures and treatments. Nonetheless, those of us fortunate enough to have health insurance are relieved as hell to have it.

    America is more than so called right wing “Christian” activists who spew hatred, misinformation and Fox News talking points! Health care for all Americans is a moral issue and Christians et al. have a moral imperative to get it done!

    * Lack of health insurance causes 18,000 unnecessary deaths of human beings in the United States every year. This equates to approximately one death every thirty minutes. Source: Insuring America’s Health: Principles and Recommendations
    http://www.iom.edu/CMS/3809/4660/17632.aspx

    * An uninsured woman with breast cancer is 60 percent more likely to die than an insured woman with the same condition. Source: American Cancer Society

    * 45.7 million people were uninsured for the entire 2007 calendar year. Source: United States Census Bureau

    * 62 percent of American bankruptcies are directly linked to medical bills. Source: Medical Bankruptcy in the United States, 2007. http://download.journals.elsevierhealth.com/pdfs/journals/0002-9343

    * Medical bankruptcies increased nearly 50 percent in just six years. Source: Medical Bankruptcy in the United States, 2007.

    * 78 percent of the people who filed medical bankruptcies had health insurance, but gaps and inadequate coverage left them unprotected and financially ruined. Source: Medical Bankruptcy in the United States, 2007.

    * 29 percent of low and middle-income households with credit card balances pay off medical expenses over time with credit cards. Source: Zeldin C, Rukavina M., Borrowing To Stay Healthy: How Credit Card Debt Is Related To Medical Expenses. http://www.accessproject.org/adobe/borrowing_to_stay_healthy.pdf Accessed July 18, 2008.

    * Of 639 patient interviewees whose personal or family illnesses contributed to bankruptcy, 77.9 percent were insured. 60.3 percent had private insurance, 10.2 percent had Medicare, 5.4 percent had Medicaid and 2 percent had Veterans Affairs/military coverage. 2.8 percent of the uninsured interviewees were denied coverage because of preexisting conditions and 0.3 percent believed that health insurance was unnecessary. Source: Medical Bankruptcy in the United States, 2007.

    * Common diagnoses associated with the highest out of pocket expenses ultimately resulting in medical bankruptcy included nonstroke neurologic illnesses such as multiple sclerosis ($34,167), diabetes ($26,971), injuries ($25,096), stroke ($23,380), mental illnesses ($23,178), and heart disease ($21,955). Source: Medical Bankruptcy in the United States, 2007.

    * Before the Bush Recession, an American family filed for bankruptcy in the aftermath of illness every 90 seconds; three quarters of them were insured. Source: Medical Bankruptcy in the United States, 2007.

    * Under Medicare, 3 percent of every dollar goes to administrative costs. Conversely, in excess of 30 percent of every private insurance dollar goes to administrative costs. Abuse in the Medicare system is directly attributable to providers and not recipients of health care services.

    Income Matters – So Does Race and Class

    From 2007 through 2008, 86.7 million people, one out of every three Americans under the age of 65, were uninsured for some period of time. A closer review of the numbers reveals alarming racial and ethnic disparities in insurance coverage and health care access. Almost half (45.8 percent) of people of color under the age of 65 went without health coverage for some or all of the two-year period 2007-2008. The numbers were even more alarming when broken down by race and ethnicity: More than half of Hispanics/Latinos (55.1 percent), two out of five African Americans (40.3 percent), and one-third of other racial and ethnic minorities (34 percent) were uninsured, compared to one-quarter of whites (25.8 percent). Families USA’s Fact Sheet Minority Health Initiatives, Health Care Reform: Critical to Closing the Gap for Communities of Color, March 2009 http://www.familiesusa.org/assets/pdfs/health-reform/closing-the-ga

    Lack of access due to socio economic factors and minority status result in rationing and create de facto Death Panels. African American elders are less likely to seek health care early in the disease process and less likely to practice preventive health behaviors. Conversely, healthcare providers are less likely to offer services such as breast or prostate cancer screening to African American elders than they are to their White counterparts. Source: Health and Health Care of African American Elders http://www.stanford.edu/group/ethnoger/african.html#VI

    Genetic and environmental factors, lack of access to affordable preventative health care, lack of availability of affordable healthy food choices, and life style choices result in the epidemic of heart disease, stroke, diabetes, asthma and other respiratory problems, neurologic illnesses, mental illness and trauma related injuries in communities of color. African Americans, poor Whites and other minorities present later in the disease process, are sicker when we present, have diminished prognosis for optimum recovery and are more expensive to treat. Moreover, African Americans are less likely to have Advance Directives because of misinformation, e.g., “Death Panels,” cultural mores and a healthy distrust for the health care delivery establishment rooted in historical facts.

    Social ills including lack of access to health care are part and parcel of discrimination along with uneployment, lack of education, poverty and lack of opportunity. Opportunity combats social ills. The opportunity to access health care saves lives and contributes to physically and mentally healthy individuals prepared for education and employment opportunities.

    As Christians et al., we conveniently ignore that under the current health care system, “the least of them,” those who we profess to advocate for, are often forced to choose among purchasing medication, healthy foods, clothing themselves and their families or cooling and heating their homes. Children with special needs are born into a society wherein their parents are forced to cry and beg during telethons to access the wheelchairs, prosthetics and services essential to their mere survival. Yet, we continue to cry “Lord, Lord!” Abortion, school prayer, and if you’re Republican, taxes, are the only social issues worthy of the activism of the “Christian Community. We follow bliondly as Americans lanquish in emergency rooms and die prematurely from uncontrolled treatable conditions. We sit tacitly by while evil flourishes within our own ranks.

  • ONTIME

    Many of the illegals scam the agencies and institutions for freebies they do not deserve and our politicians rush to give what belongs to legal citizens to everyone but the American citizen. It is true the useless, incomprehesible, power grabbing bill in the house and what is being considered in the senate can be interpeted as unclear as to who can recieve these benefits, if push came to shove the politicians would give your benefits to a illegal and tell you they deserve it because they skipped across the border WOP. After all, your government will give your SS to them and many of them just submit false credentials and steal it and no one will enforce the law to stop them.

    • duif100

      i agree with a lot of what you are saying. Politicians buy votes to be re-elected. The principle is simple. They take $100 from you (and lose your vote), then they give $10 to ten illegal aliens. First amnesty and then voting rights for residents instead of citizens. When this happens the illegal aliens are alrady bought and paid for.

      Bill are deliberately made unclear. If a bill clearly stated that anyone illegally in the country cannot receive any benefits from the government, the issue is over. The fact that congress chooses not to use clear language proves that there are alterior motives. It is time that congress is honest with the people. Until then kick them all out of office.

      • Foolpatrol

        Politicians don’t buy illegals’ votes because illegals can’t vote! Regarding residents voting instead of citizens, are you giving us more to be afraid of in the future? Notie how ethnic minorities are usually the target of the fear? E.g., Blacks, Hispanics, Muslims? It is very sad that so many Americans choose to live in fear instead of hope. The time expended on what we should be afraid now and in the future could be spent on contributing to solving some of America’s issues.

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          Hate to burst your bubble, but it is documented that ACORN and other democratic agencies were out there, not just this election, but other ones also, getting illegal aliens to vote for them. Your right it is illegal, but hey, they are democrats, rules dont apply to them. I mean after all, how many thousand dead people in Chicago voted for JFK and got him elected? You gonna try to say that didnt happen either? Wake up man, its the democrats. You know, JFK, Frank Sinatra, the mob, the unions, the whole ball of wax. Rules and laws dont apply to them, they are above that. Rules and laws are for the rest of us, they are above that. Just watch how they operate says it all.

          • Smilee

            Where is it documented, fact is it isn’t, if you have facts or documentation put it out there, otherwise thinking people have to conclude you are lying

  • s c

    Think of a two-story outhouse, where politicians get the second story, and the rest of us get the first story. No one in his right mind would aceept or tolerate such a condition. However, if you’ve been dumbed-down long enough, you might come to enjoy it. There is a word for this situation, but I won’t say it.
    In effect, this double-decker crapper is an accurate way to describe the utter lack of leadership in Washington.
    I don’t like it. I’ll NEVER like it. Most Americans don’t like it. Those who do are too busy living in an aromatic fantasy world to understand what’s wrong with it. Somehow, they have lost their sense of smell, and they actually enjoy wearing that ‘badge of incompetence’ – compliments of Washington and their own psychotic voting habits. What a price to pay for being a politican’s best “friend.”

    • Smilee

      You been drinking again SC????????

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        You been smoking crack again Smilee?

        • Smilee

          Don’t listen to well do you, I’ve told you before I do not smoke anything and I do not write like I’m drunk either like S C does but your bias probably prevents you from being aware of these things so you just spew them out without justification

  • Robin from Indiana

    I have written my representatives and have made it clear that I am watching how they vote. I think most people voted Barry in because they wanted to be a part of history; they thought he was good-looking and a smooth talker; they have always voted Democrat; they know little to nothing about the parties and what makes them different. His track record left nothing to be desired. His rush to do things is very scary. The fact that most of the bills are not read before they are voted on is chilling to say the least.
    I have not talked to anyone who supports the health bill that they are trying to rush into law. If this gets passed, it will be because the pressure to pass was within (Washington) and the voters are not being listened to!

    • Foolpatrol

      The “rush to do things”? Tell that to the 18,000 AMERICANS who die prematurely due to lack of health care every year! * Lack of health insurance causes 18,000 unnecessary deaths of human beings in the United States every year. This equates to approximately one death every thirty minutes. Source: Insuring America’s Health: Principles and Recommendations
      http://www.iom.edu/CMS/3809/4660/17632.aspx

      If you are correct and there is a rush, perhaps it is because after eight years of failed policies, we must act in the interest of AMERICANS now! God knows we have nothing to show for the last eight except the Bush Recession, a war based on lies, creating a deficit out of a surplus, no bid contracts to cronys, divisiveness, torture, loss of standing around the world and criminal activity.

      All this BS while Private insurers convene the “Death Panels” which place price tags on our very lives! Every day private insurers decide who is worthy of coverage and who is denied due to preexisting conditions, family history and genetics, lifestyle choices, weight and even credit scores. Private Insurers tell us which doctors we can see, which hospitals and other healthcare providers we can access, how much it will pay those providers, which medications it will cover, which medications we are required to experiment with before we can step up to the medication that our physicians initially determined to be most effective, which alternatives physicians present to patients, which procedures are covered, which procedures are labeled experimental despite successful clinical outcomes and denies coverage for those life saving procedures, which specialists we can see and under what circumstances we can see them, which procedures are more cost effective aka cheaper even in the wake of record profits, and whether we are candidates for transplants and other life prolonging procedures and treatments.

      Do it right, but Reform Heath Care Now!

      • Tammy

        You are absolutely right!!! If people would just listen to the truth, they would see that the only reason the right opposes a public option is because it would hurt health insurance companies that would be forced to lower their prices to compete, and then they wouldn’t get so rich so fast. I actually heard Rep Gingery say that we need to stop making villains out of health care comapanies, since when did the health care companies deserve more consideration then individual people?The far right needs to stop spreding lies and deal with issues they don’t agree with, not scare tactics. And, it IS un-american to shout down opposing wiewpoints, and not allow others the right to speak their views, by the way!

        • Foolpatrol

          Who needs oppossing view poits when right wingers can have “invitation only” Town Halls?

          Sad thing is we are all directly or indirectly impacted by the lack of access to preventative care for all Americans, right wingers included. They’d rather spew fear, hatred and Fox Talking Points than get their relatives and neighbors access to afforsable health care.

          The desire for our President to fail outweighs the desire for basic health care. Parents with special needs children are forced to cry and beg during telethons for the wheelchairs, services and devices necessary for their childrens’ survival. Very stupid and ver,very, sad!

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            You hate this country so much, you really need to move out of it. If life is so bad for you, why do you hang around here. Its good for me, I love it just as it is, so I stay. If I was a sad sack like you where everything is woe is me, Id leave in a heartbeat. You need to go dude, like right now.

          • Smilee

            WOW, getting kind of testy arn’t we, anger never solves anything

          • eyeswideopen

            Berb, Smilee, and myself have really good lives, we participate in these blogs, to hopefully cause a spark that might make just one of you here look at a situtation a little differently, maybe a little less biased. It is unhealthy to just have the same radical viewpoints bombarding you, never forcing you to think or research. Stinkin thinkin will effect your whole life. If you truly believe that a specific issue is wrong, then take action, write letters, send emails, make phone calls, change your vote.

        • Jeff

          Well, I think the right is right. I started reading the bill and have come to the conclusion (on my own) that the health care bill is not about health care but is about government control over our lives. This is what the right is worried about. We all want the problems in health care to be resolved, but I think our government is seducing the people into a system they are not aware of. In the end we will all lose more freedom and health care will be no better than it was. Please consider that this health care bill is enormous. Many of the supposed scare tactics I have heard about from the right turned out to be true once I did the research.

          • Foolpatrol

            Exactly which scare tatics are true? Death Panels? When in reality private insurers convene the “Death Panels” which place price tags on our very lives! Every day private insurers decide who is worthy of coverage and who is denied due to preexisting conditions, family history and genetics, lifestyle choices, weight and even credit scores. Private Insurers tell us which doctors we can see, which hospitals and other healthcare providers we can access, how much it will pay those providers, which medications it will cover, which medications we are required to experiment with before we can step up to the medication that our physicians initially determined to be most effective, which alternatives physicians present to patients, which procedures are covered, which procedures are labeled experimental despite successful clinical outcomes and denies coverage for those life saving procedures, which specialists we can see and under what circumstances we can see them, which procedures are more cost effective aka cheaper even in the wake of record profits, and whether we are candidates for transplants and other life prolonging procedures and treatments. Nonetheless, those of us fortunate enough to have health insurance are relieved as hell to have it.

            This is what we should be scared of and it’s all true!

            * Lack of health insurance causes 18,000 unnecessary deaths of human beings in the United States every year. This equates to approximately one death every thirty minutes. Source: Insuring America’s Health: Principles and Recommendations
            http://www.iom.edu/CMS/3809/4660/17632.aspx

            * An uninsured woman with breast cancer is 60 percent more likely to die than an insured woman with the same condition. Source: American Cancer Society

            * 45.7 million people were uninsured for the entire 2007 calendar year. Source: United States Census Bureau

            * 62 percent of American bankruptcies are directly linked to medical bills. Source: Medical Bankruptcy in the United States, 2007. http://download.journals.elsev…..002-9343…

            * Medical bankruptcies increased nearly 50 percent in just six years. Source: Medical Bankruptcy in the United States, 2007.

            * 78 percent of the people who filed medical bankruptcies had health insurance, but gaps and inadequate coverage left them unprotected and financially ruined. Source: Medical Bankruptcy in the United States, 2007.

            * 29 percent of low and middle-income households with credit card balances pay off medical expenses over time with credit cards. Source: Zeldin C, Rukavina M., Borrowing To Stay Healthy: How Credit Card Debt Is Related To Medical Expenses. http://www.accessproject.org/a…..ealthy.pdf Accessed July 18, 2008.

            * Of 639 patient interviewees whose personal or family illnesses contributed to bankruptcy, 77.9 percent were insured. 60.3 percent had private insurance, 10.2 percent had Medicare, 5.4 percent had Medicaid and 2 percent had Veterans Affairs/military coverage. 2.8 percent of the uninsured interviewees were denied coverage because of preexisting conditions and 0.3 percent believed that health insurance was unnecessary. Source: Medical Bankruptcy in the United States, 2007.

            * Common diagnoses associated with the highest out of pocket expenses ultimately resulting in medical bankruptcy included nonstroke neurologic illnesses such as multiple sclerosis ($34,167), diabetes ($26,971), injuries ($25,096), stroke ($23,380), mental illnesses ($23,178), and heart disease ($21,955). Source: Medical Bankruptcy in the United States, 2007.

            * Before the Bush Recession, an American family filed for bankruptcy in the aftermath of illness every 90 seconds; three quarters of them were insured. Source: Medical Bankruptcy in the United States, 2007.

            America is more than so called right wing “Christian” activists who spew hatred, misinformation and Fox News talking points! Health care for all Americans is a moral issue and Christians et al. have a moral imperative to get it done! If the bill is imperfect, as all bills are, fix the bill and pass health care reform!

            FYI Just left the dentist, $42 per tooth (approximately $900 total)for shooting antibiotics in my gums. Dental insurer canceled coverage for my entire group! Despite the fact that I have the resources to pay for private dental insurance, I cannot get insurance to cover my pre existing condition. Reform is Imperative!

          • Smilee

            That’s funny I read it and found the opposite to be true I read it on the house site, the horses mouth so to speak I’ll just bet what you read as from a conservative site and most of them have rewritten them so people would come to the conclusions you have, the truth means nothing to them,

      • http://anita.green@lmco.com ann

        Foolpatrol / Tammy -
        Democrats and Republicans watched as our President in a economy
        crisis – passed a stimulus that was to create jobs – but instead
        gave Government officials – 600 million to get themselves new cars -
        gave raises of 83 billion to increase earned income benefits – to people that pay almost nothing in taxes – increases to food stamps
        recipicants of 20 billion, Raises for persons on welfare – 54 million for federal programs, billions to refurnish government offices,
        150 million to help the smithsonian, 7 billion to modernize federal facilities, billions to aid in tatoo removal for those who could not
        afford to have it done – i could go and on and on – about the crap in the stimulus – but why not look it up yourself and see – its pretty simple – he spent 825 billion on a economic stimulus – that funded government more than any other bill presented before, that is a fact.
        While you say illegals aren’t in the health care plan – its not what is in it – it was what was left out -
        the loop holes that allow them to sign up for it without a background check to verify they are a citizen. More Americans are killed yearly by illegals than we loose in the war – thats a fact as well – so why would we want to cover illegals ? You don’t have to be a right wing
        republican – you just need to print out the health care bill and read it – its terribly boring and pages & pages of wasted paper – but when it’s all said and done – its like the stimulus – wasted paper giving government officials the right to say who gets what.. sorry i had rather have a doctor tell me what i need …
        As for the wheelchair you mentioned – we already take care of our disabled – with a disability check & and we don’t mind at all – but any church will provide a person with a wheelchair that needs one – whether they recieve a disability check or not – the goodwill’s and salvation army’s have tons of wheelchairs – there is no reason that anyone on disability that needs a wheelchair not have one – without having to ask the government for it. Government has nothing without the tax payer -and the tax payers are fed up with paying government their wages to do nothing but spend the money we work and earn on themselves.
        The stimulus was rushed though before anyone even had a chance to see they were being screwed – the rush for the health care plan is the same, we are not nuts – we have just learned from the stimulus – thing are never what they seem – when someone is trying to rush it though there is usually a reason …

        • Foolpatrol

          Republicans watched? LOL! A failed Republican Administration created the economic crisis that made the stimulus necessary! How soon we forget!

          • duif100

            I wonder what you read to get your erroneous information.
            Why don’t you research what Obama did for ACORN?
            Why don’t you research what ACORN did for the mortgage financing?
            Why don’t you research what the ex clinton administration officials did for Fanny May and Freddy Mac?
            Why don’t you research what those ex clinton administration officials received as bonusses?
            Why don’t you research what Barney Frank has done to the credit market and banking industry?
            Why don’t you research how much of the bail-out money was used to hush up the governments hand in the failures?
            Maybe you become a little wiser after you have completed your research. Don’t follow the liberals like a little puppy. Research and then make up your own mind.

          • Smilee

            duif100 says:
            September 2, 2009 at 6:37 pm

            You have been researching this on conservative sites, bad information, yes Glass Stegal was voted out and caused much of the problems and isn’t interesting that Barney voted against that and said we would within a decade be in the mess we are now. but them in 2001 the republicans and Bush pulled the plug an many regulations that would have also could have prevented it and brakes were off the train and in less than seven years we were in real trouble, During this time the republicans controlled both houses so how can you blame it on democrats and still keep a straight face, you are entitled to your own opinions bu you are not allowed to manufacture your own facts.

          • eyeswideopen

            More info: During Regans admin,1986, they repealed the Savings and Loan Act, which caused the failure similiar to the one today. It cost 283 billion. Just when we had paid off that debt, we then repealed the Glass-stegal Act, putting into effect the Graham-Leach act. which has cost us unknown billions for the Banking industry.
            We need to admit our failures and get on down the road by fixing not obstructing.

          • http://donthaveone Beberoni

            Get the facts straight. Under Bush, unemployment at an all time low, employement at an all time high. Stock market at an all time high, all marks were much better than even your hero Bill “Gimme a cigar and an intern” Clinton. Even when you left wing liberal media idiots said the economy was in the tank, the stock market was still higher than it ever got under Clinton, you lying little wankers. Under Obama, unemployement is at an all time high. Less people are working and more collecting his upsized unemployment, and believe me more will as the democrats make it more appealing to those who dont want to work, to remain as they are, dependant on the government and voting democrat. Losers by the way. This last republican admin had things going great, and only by the democrats of Franklin Raines, Jamie Gorelick, Barney Frank and others bringing down the banking industry, and the fear of a democrat winning the election, did the economy go bad. Business now has to save their money to pay these tax monster democrats, who are really close now to the time that they are going to rescind the tax cuts, and yes, they will rescind them, and more millions will lose their jobs, as the democrats failed iniatives are doing nothing but rewarding bad behavior with billions of dollars, ie GM, Chrysler, unemployment, food stamps, welfare. its all one big handout. Punish the successful, and reward the failures. This is the democratic party of the 2000′s. Out of touch with reality left winger liberal pacifist appeasing pants wetting curl up in the fetal position and cry for mommy bunch of losers. Yeah, they are kind of like that, and thats a fact jack. Bunch of losers.

          • Smilee

            Beberoni says:
            September 3, 2009 at 10:07 am

            Too bad you are so unaware of what is really going on, liberal bashing the liberals for the mistakes of the republicans is typical of you far right wingers who do not recognize the truth and blame everything on others instead of being able to recognize their own failures. Misleading facts, liberal bashing and name calling only illuminates your being out of touch, frustrated and angry, probably stems from your hated of liberals.

          • eyeswideopen

            Berb, I’ve noticed that you seem to have obsession with wet pants, when you start your name calling. Why is that?

          • Smilee

            Eyes

            Are you sure you want to know?????????

          • eyeswideopen

            lol lol,,,no, just an observation.

      • http://N/A Pat Rutland

        If the American Citizens were not numbed by Prescription Drugs prescribed by Medical Drs. making Pharmaceutical Co. and Medical Inst.
        (Drs, Hospitals, etc) all these Billions of $$ a yr, we wouldn’t need
        all the crap they are trying to shove down everyones throat or (other
        avenues)
        I am 66 yrs old, haven’t been to a MD in yrs. take no prescriptions
        and in good health. Natural Medicine is the only way to survive all
        this mess. (No Harmful Drugs–No Harmful Side Effects.)
        It’s time we got back to Basics and took control of our own health!
        We don’t need all the pills and tests they try to force on us daily.
        The more people start taking control of their own health, by nutrition
        and exercise, the less we will need all of the force-fed treatments!

      • duif100

        The proposed bills are so vague that nobody can really accurately predict what the final outcome is concerning healthcare. All the debate about something undefined is senseless. We need a clear concise proposal to decide if it is good or bad for the nation.

        A debate over what is in the bill and what is not, is crazy. A debate over the meaning of the contents of the bill is crazy.
        The debate should only be about the merrits of the bill. As it stands now, every person who reads the bill has a different interpretation. Of all those thousands (maybe even millions) who read the bill and interpreted it, ONLY ONE CAN BE RIGHT. That means congress fooled all except one person. What a way to enact a law. Is that truly a government by the people and for the people. That ia more like a government by one person and for one person (the dictator).

        The one thing that is clear is that the government will take more control of our lives. I do not care if they control your life but I want to control mine. It is my life and it is not (yet) owned by the government. I do not want to become a government owned slave.

        • Smilee

          Its a work in progress so why are you jumping to all these conclusions, wait until they have a bill to vote on then you comments will be in response to what the law will be, you are sort of goosing ghost in the dark with these comments

    • Smilee

      Some of us voters feel we are being listened to, so speak only for yourself

  • Maling

    If we weren’t paying for all the illegal aliens, maybe we could help pay for our own as far as medical care is concerned.

    Obama’s plan is not good for legal citizens.

    • Foolpatrol

      Were you home schooled with Sarah ‘give me free’ Palin? The bill does not cover illegal aliens!

      • http://personellibertydigest glenn warne

        yOUR riGHT, IT DOSEN’T MENTION THEM. THEREFORE LATER YOU CAN GIVE THEM THE FREEBIES WITH EVERYBODY ELSE, THERE IS NO REQUIREMENT TO PROVE YOU ARE A CITIZEN, SO EVERYBODY WILL TELL THE TRUTH,RIGHT!

      • duif100

        Foolpatrol you should start patrollong your own fooling. The Congressional investigation Commitee has recently determined that the healthcare bill does cover illegal aliens. It is done via deliberate loopholes to give the politicians deniability.

        In case you have not figured it out yet, the government does not pay for anything. The government takes the taxpayers money and redistributes that. The taxpayers pay, NOT the Government.

        Since you are so set on supporting socialized healthcare, why don’t you help me. I have still over $ 10,000.00 in medical bills to pay.
        Your generous socialism is greatly appreciated. When can I expect a check?

      • BOE

        Foolproof..You are so stupid..you don`t have a clue. First of all Gw went before congress and told them Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were headed for big trouble (look it up on youtube) and would have a huge effect on the economy. Of course fat Barney Frank spewed out “I don`t think there is anything wrong with it and would not allow a investication. Now this was 2003…look up everything Pelosi,fat Frank.Reid & Dodd fought GW ..his hands were tied. By the way …if you had read the bill RE illegals…it`s in there .we will even pay for a translator if they won`t bother to learn english. Before you spew out toxic air…know what you are talking about.

        • Foolpatrol

          His hands were tied? We should have tied that idiots hands, mouth, feet, legs … . Oh, sorry Americans don’t do that; it’s torture and we only tortured during Dumb Dubya’s Administration. I retract my silly statement. Let’s just try Dubya for treason and war crimes, find him guilty and execute him! Wink!

      • duif100

        Obviously you did not even read the article you are commenting on.

        CRS is the research arm of the U.S. Congress, and its study has found that under the Affordable Health Care Act of 2009, proposed by the House of Representatives, illegal aliens would potentially be able to receive benefits under the so-called public option.

        CRS works for Congress but you ignored their input. If you ignore the input from the people/organizations who analyze and perform research on behalf of Congress then why not ignore the input from Congress?

        You could have read the proposed bill (like I did) and the decide. Obviously you did not do that either.
        You do not consider opposing views.
        What information do you gather before you “make up your mind?

        • eyeswideopen

          The public option is going to be a paying system, not free. Everyone will be paying premiums, isn’t that better than them getting “free” care at the emergency rooms?

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Run Sarah run, the dems are so scared of her.

        • Smilee

          Run Sarah run, the dems will surely win

        • eyeswideopen

          She did run,,,,away from her elected post. Couldn’t even make it for one term…. how impressive!

  • Jack Kinch(1uncle)

    We have done many very good things for the world and been happy for the doing of it. WE cannot now afford these things. We are in debt the amount of $38,000 for every citizen, man women and child. AND the demorats are still borrowing and spending. WE must start thinking that every dollar spent is important. Not just on every alien, but everything.

    • s c

      Jack, the actual figure is much higher than $38,000 per person (compliments of b o). There are two quotes from people above yours who would be more than happy to see us in debt forever. They are indicatve of what is so wrong with America.
      They see any ‘change’ as good. If it puts us into deeper debt, that somehow makes it ‘better.’ They – like their career prostitute pals in Washington – don’t like to stop and think about reality (they probably don’t like to READ anything, either). To them, if it ‘feels’ good, it HAS to be good. Pity them. They sold themselves the same way their political role models did.
      And they wonder why they sound like crazies. They just don’t get it. They never will.

  • Byron From Louisiana

    We were raised to help unfortunate families, but we didn’t support them. We helped to make them self sufficient.
    There are too many give aways of our hard earned monies to various people who are not citizens of these United States.
    If they are granted legal American citizenship, then they are entitled, but not before.
    Also, there is untold political corruption in our elected officials. They have not represented us for a long time, so the “time for change” is indeed coming for them.

    • Foolpatrol

      How does one “help to make sufficient” a special needs child whose family cannot afford a wheelchair or special services without providing access to those services? Health care for ALL AMERICANS is a moral imperative!

      • Turk

        I agree with you. But no good things happens in this country easily…Look at the Social Security, Civil Rights, Voting Rights, Women’s Right, Medicare, and others…not with those wingnuts around. Stupidity and ignorance is mindboggling but it is as American as apple pie. But I am still hopeful that some day we’ll evolve to the level of civilized societies which we presently malign to our own detriment…I’ll see that day, if I don’t die before due to lack of health care.

        • eyeswideopen

          Hey, us women are just happy that they finally passed legislation to give us equal pay… and its 2009!! They must have snuck it in when the Senators were partying.

      • duif100

        You use the same old worn out “justification” for your emotional viewpoints.
        The people who really need assistance are not the ones that destroy or overburden the system. We could do a lot more for them if we really tried to help the ones who really need it. I have no problem with helping these people. In fact it feels good to do so.

        The able people who refuse to caryy their own load are the problem.
        They bleed the system dry and have become expert at squeezing everything possible out of a system that should give them nothing.
        Our government encourages that because “dependents of the government” are voters they can count on. This portion is far larger than the really needy.
        We do not need a society of takers only. If all of us only take from society there will not be anything left to take and our society will collapse.
        I believe that the people who are taxed to provide for takers should go on strike for a while.

        Healthcare for everyone is not a moral obligation.
        Where did you get that idea? Who are you to decide what everyone’s morals should be?
        A moral code is based on religion and we cannot mix state and religion. Ask the ACLU if you don’t believe me. It is not up to the goverment to legislate morals.

        Where in the constitution is the right to healthcare given to everyone?
        If it is not there, the government does not even have the authority to do what it is trying to do.

        • eyeswideopen

          No, and it doesn’t say they will maintain the highways either, but you expect them to do that don’t you?

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        I dont know about where you come from, but where I come from, the churches mobilize and take care of buying the wheelchair, and having volunteers build a wheelchair ramp up to the house, and step and and do things like this to help. This is the job of the church of the body of believers of Jesus Christ, not the governments job. You leeches cry separation of church and state, then get the government out of the churches job and stand back. Its our job as the church to do this stuff, and if your not going to step up and help, then you sir are part of the problem. If you want to stand there and watch the government do everything for everybody, then again, you are part of the problem, instead of being part of the solution.

        • Smilee

          I don’t think anyone is against the church doing these things the problem is they pick and choose whom to help while when the government does it they cannot discriminate where the churches legally can. Thats why the government has to be involved to be sure people are not falling through the cracks in the system

        • Tammy

          Beberoni, I’m sure that if you can guarantee that the churches will pay everyone’s medical bills, if they cannot afford to, we will no longer push for a public option. I would be so happy to know that the churches have my back, just in case I get sick and rack up hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical bills that I certainly could not pay. That would be GREAT! If you can guarantee it, I will start immediately, to go against the public option. I promise!

          • eyeswideopen

            Tammy, me too!

  • BABUSHSKA

    You bloody liberals would have us provide healthcare to the entire world if we were asked; earn the same income no matter what our level of education is, allow gays to marry throughout the country; have the government pay for our aborted babies; allow pornography to run rampant as long as it “doesn’t hurt” anyone, extend unemployment benefits indefinitely because we can always print more money if needed; provide endless entitlement programs for the poor, secure the internet or shut down broadcasting under “an emergency” situation, etc. Ooops, sound like anybody we know who lives in a white house?

    • Foolpatrol

      More BS, fear and lies! Sell it to the wingnuts!

      • DaveH

        You are the wingnut Fool. Anybody with half-a-brain knows that not only is this an unauthorized government gigantic takeover of our personal liberty but it is also a foot in the door for a total takeover of our libertys.
        Do you somehow perceive it will benefit you, thus looking out for your own greedy interests, or are you just being a typical liberal vicarious philanthroper? You are free at any time to donate all your money to the charity of your wishes, but to donate my money is Theft, plain and simple.

        • http://donthaveone Beberoni

          Ignore the foolpatrol, because part of his name portrays him absolutely correct, fool. The guy opens his mouth and shows his utter stupidity with almost every post. He obviously is uneducated and doesnt have much on the ball, because all he cites is lie after lie after lie, all opinions on his part, with no factual basis on anything. I would believe he is a crack head or lives in a mobile meth lab or something, because his thinking is way off.

          • Smilee

            WOW, can’t get your point across without all that name calling, shameful and it illustrates your character or rather the lack thereof and DaveH who accused me recently of name calling when I had not, sure does not lack in using that practice as well, calling someone a “Wingnut” by the way davie what does it mean

          • Tammy

            How unfortunate that people like you are not only wrong, but so nasty and hateful as well. What a good American you are to treat your fellow Americans with such vileness. Maybe you should go live in one of the mid eastern countries where behavior like that seems more acceptable.

          • DaveH

            That’s a laugh-riot Tammy. Your statement is riddled with name-calling and ridicule. That is the only defense available to those who have few logical debate points. The Democrats are far more prolific with the hateful name-calling and ridicule than any other national party that I’ve observed.

          • Smilee

            Oh Davie, Davie, she did not even call anyone a name once, again you show your inability to comprehend reality

  • David

    Wow the liberals are really fighting back today. They are backed into a corner and must lash out. Even the majority of your party is turning against you now, so what next? Give me a break about right sided town hall meetings. Those people are repubs, libertarian and dems party…just not the elite liberals who are crashing fast. What about your uneducated thugs from SEIU, ACORN, etc that don’t even know why they are at these meetings other than they were told to be there and disrupt. Come on out to the 9/12 gatherings….you haven’t seen anything yet Tammy and Foolpatrol!

    • s c

      It’s not really a fight. It’s more like thieves or liars who’ve been caught red-handed (with their pants down around their ankles). They’re out of their element, and this is the only way they can respond. Note their ‘compassion’ and their ‘understanding’ and their readiness to “debate” issues MINUS any pre-programmed rhetoric [ha!].
      Kinda makes you want to puke, doesn’t it? They’re merely parroting back the brainwashed pablum they ‘grew up’ with, David. They’re lost, and they typically respond like rabid dogs (feel the ‘love’).
      Keep it coming, David. Never let these people off the hook. They helped create a lot of this national psychosis. Either they get ‘treated,’ or they’ll have to live with an unending, heavy dose of their own C R A P.
      If that’s the way they want it – or ‘need’ it – then SOBEIT. Rational people can talk and debate. Mad dogs and brainwashed toadies have no part in a national issue of this importance.

      • Tammy

        Respond like rabid dogs???? Hahahahahaha, are you even reading any of this? Our responses have been very cordial, we are just pleading for a civil debate on the issues. I’m afraid that you have been reading your own responses and how angry you all sound, when you refer to rabid dogs. You need to re-read all that is being said here to see who is behaving badly, it’s not me, or Foolpatrol. Just because you disagree doesn’t make you right.

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        Yeah I agree. Its like arguing with the national news. All I hear out of them are things that the lying left wing liberal news media recites to them day and night, and they blindly follow without choosing to get educated and check into this stuff. If the national news said it was good to shoot, snort, and smoke meth everyday, they would all go ahead and do it, because they actually believe these guys that they see on their brainsucker everyday. Maybe they should pull their mobile meth labs over once in awhile, and get out into the public and see what real people think, instead of the guy inside of the brainsucker they watch 18 hours a day. Unbelieveable.

        • Smilee

          Beberoni

          You really do show your stupidity and lack of class in this post, go take a nap and then come back and try again

        • Tammy

          I think Smilee is so sweet to suggest a nap is all you need. Can you say anything that doesn’t include a reference to mobile meth labs, you are so funny, thanks for my laugh for the day. I’m going to go drive my “mobile meth lab” now…hahahahaha.

    • Tammy

      If by “fighting back” you mean insisting on the truth, then yes. We don’t have to fight, we just want the truth to be told, period. We don’t have to agree, and if we have different viewpoints, that’s fine, but the right has to stop lying and shouting down the opposition. I understand that the conservatives want smaller government, they don’t like Medicare, Social Security, Medicaid, all those government programs that help the less fortunate, I get that. I do like all those programs and feel that it’s a great government that offers programs to help those that have not been so lucky, or fortunate, but at least, stop being so ugly and nasty about it and argue the issues.

      • DaveH

        Most are less fortunate because while others were studying hard, or working hard to make a living, they were dropping out of high school, partying, and doing drugs, or just avoiding any jobs that would require sacrifice and hard work. If your liberals hearts are bleeding that bad then take care of them with your own money. You must have more than I do, if you can so cavalierly offer to donate other peoples’ money. Or, go to Cuba, or Venezuela, and live your Dream Life. There is nothing intelligent about what you propose – it is Force, nothing more. Government is Force not Reason. Big Government is the Problem not the Solution.

        • Tammy

          Sorry, but just because you say it doesn’t make it true. Do you have any facts to back up that those who are less fortunate are so because of the reasons you state? Some have lost their jobs due to the recession, some have disabilities or kids with birth defects, many reasons. I think you are just trying to cover up your lack of concern for your fellow men/women/children by blaming them for having disadvantages. And, I do send my own money to help my brothers and sisters who are in need. I contribute to many charities and causes to help make the world a better place. What do you do?

          • Foolpatrol

            Here’s some facts Tammy:

            * Lack of health insurance causes 18,000 unnecessary deaths of human beings in the United States every year. This equates to approximately one death every thirty minutes. Source: Insuring America’s Health: Principles and Recommendations
            http://www.iom.edu/CMS/3809/4660/17632.aspx

            * An uninsured woman with breast cancer is 60 percent more likely to die than an insured woman with the same condition. Source: American Cancer Society

            * 45.7 million people were uninsured for the entire 2007 calendar year. Source: United States Census Bureau

            * 62 percent of American bankruptcies are directly linked to medical bills. Source: Medical Bankruptcy in the United States, 2007. http://download.journals.elsev…..002-9343…

            * Medical bankruptcies increased nearly 50 percent in just six years. Source: Medical Bankruptcy in the United States, 2007.

            * 78 percent of the people who filed medical bankruptcies had health insurance, but gaps and inadequate coverage left them unprotected and financially ruined. Source: Medical Bankruptcy in the United States, 2007.

            * 29 percent of low and middle-income households with credit card balances pay off medical expenses over time with credit cards. Source: Zeldin C, Rukavina M., Borrowing To Stay Healthy: How Credit Card Debt Is Related To Medical Expenses. http://www.accessproject.org/a…..ealthy.pdf Accessed July 18, 2008.

            * Of 639 patient interviewees whose personal or family illnesses contributed to bankruptcy, 77.9 percent were insured. 60.3 percent had private insurance, 10.2 percent had Medicare, 5.4 percent had Medicaid and 2 percent had Veterans Affairs/military coverage. 2.8 percent of the uninsured interviewees were denied coverage because of preexisting conditions and 0.3 percent believed that health insurance was unnecessary. Source: Medical Bankruptcy in the United States, 2007.

            * Common diagnoses associated with the highest out of pocket expenses ultimately resulting in medical bankruptcy included nonstroke neurologic illnesses such as multiple sclerosis ($34,167), diabetes ($26,971), injuries ($25,096), stroke ($23,380), mental illnesses ($23,178), and heart disease ($21,955). Source: Medical Bankruptcy in the United States, 2007.

            * Before the Bush Recession, an American family filed for bankruptcy in the aftermath of illness every 90 seconds; three quarters of them were insured. Source: Medical Bankruptcy in the United States, 2007.

            * Under Medicare, 3 percent of every dollar goes to administrative costs. Conversely, in excess of 30 percent of every private insurance dollar goes to administrative costs. Abuse in the Medicare system is directly attributable to providers and not recipients of health care services.

          • DaveH

            When I have concern for my fellow citizens I donate my own money not yours. I don’t show my concern by stealing unwilling donors money to give to someone else.

        • Foolpatrol

          I studied hard too. Got several advance degrees with Latin Honors to prove it (eat your heart out Sarah ‘give me free’ Palin)! Nonetheless, my dental insurer canceled coverage for my entire group! Just left the dentist, $42 per tooth (approximately $900 total)for shooting antibiotics into my gums. Procedure must be repeated every 3 months. Despite the fact that I have the resources to pay for private dental insurance, I cannot get coverage for my pre existing condition. Reform is imperative and those who don’t get it must be brain dead!

          • http://N/A Pat Rutland

            You mentioned “Reform”. I kinda like the word “Regenerate”! What is written into the Health Bill that Congress is willing to do anything
            to get passed; should all be thrown out and the whole thing started
            over from scratch! Not only that, we should demand to be able to read
            every word of it before it is voted on!
            The time for Action is now!

          • duif100

            The proposed healthcare bill does not include dental coverage. It won’t help your problem. Read the proposed bill.

          • Smilee

            duif100 says:
            September 2, 2009 at 8:26 pm

            He never suggested that it did

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        If you really want to hear the truth, then do not listen to ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN or MSNBC, as these are all propaganda machines of the democratic party, and their agenda is to discredit anyone on the right. They have no interest in telling the truth, only in supporting their anti american left wing liberal agenda of gaydom, muslumism, victimism, mass handouts, large controlling government, silencing of the church and of Christianity, and of course, giving all they can to the illegal aliens.

        • Smilee

          Beberoni says:
          September 3, 2009 at 10:23 am

          The democratic party has no legal authority over any of the media outlets you list, I guess that illustrates just how out of touch with reality you are. Oh I know that is one of the conservative talking points but their talking rarely ever ring true

        • Tammy

          Yes, let’s all watch Glenn Beck for some reality…..hahahahaha, I really love you Beberoni, are you punking us???

  • http://PersonnelLiberity Gary Forbes

    I Thank They Need To Stay In There On Country And Let The Americans
    Have There Jobs That They Are Taking From Americans.They Don’T Work
    At And When They Do They Get Fired With A Month So Lets Keep Them Over There Where They Belong And Lets Ship The Rest Back Where They Belong And Let There Town Support Them.

  • BABUSHSKA

    Footpatrol: – Get your head out of the sand! Why do you liberals remain in denial? Those are not lies, that is exactly what our liberal congress and white house are trying to accomplish!! Conservatives need to pray for the scales on the eyes of the liberals to fall off so they can see the truth.

    • Foolpatrol

      Aren’t a good number of you “praying” conservatives busy praying for our American President’s untimely death. You have time to add another prayer your existing evil rants? Consider this: “Defend the poor and the fatherless, do justice to the afflicted and the needy.” PSALM 82:3

      • http://donthaveone Beberoni

        But my friend, do not prostitute the scriptures of God. The scriptures, if you know anything about them, or about Jesus Christ, are written to the believer, not the non believer. It is a guide for the body of believers of Jesus Christ. Now you might ask, who is the body of believers of Jesus Christ? I would answer you, The Church. The Church is who is charged with taking care of the poor and needy, and to be a help, not the government. It is not the governments job. Separation of church and state. The state needs to stay out of the churches work, as they also keep insisting the church stay out of the governments work. And look whats happened to our government since they did this? Yes, now we have a Muslim president who doesnt even know Jesus Christ. Aint that swell. I do pray that the scales on your eyes and ears soon fall off, for it is written, “though they have ears they do not hear, and though they have eyes they do not see”. Yes, thats how it is.

        • Smilee

          You are unbelievable, I doubt you are even aware of how out of touch you are with reality both church and government

          • Tammy

            You know Smilee, no matter how much we try to convince someone that the sky is blue, if they want to believe it’s green, nothing will make them admit the truth. They are either too uneducated, too angry, too scared by b.s. propaganda, too racist, or just too full of misery. We have a wonderful, brand new president and an administration that is finally going in the right direction. They know it and simply choose to wallow in their misery. I, for one, am ready to leave them to it. My life is full of joy, and optimism for the future, I’m sorry they don’t want to experience that with us, but they are making their choice. It is sad, we would like them to feel better.

          • Smilee

            Tammy

            Your are right, but it is fun to frustrate them and make them reveal more of their dark sides

        • eyeswideopen

          You need to print what you typed and take it to the nearest preacher, who do you think you are excluding people of faith? When did God give you the all knowing ability to be able to tell who is a true Christian? I can tell you this, You are not acting like a Christian, lucky for you the rest of us will pray for your angry soul!!!

          • Tammy

            AMEN, eyeswideopen, very well put!!

        • eyeswideopen

          Tammy, I think you are right, I try to offer a different view point and the hate just over rides everything… I didn’t realize we had so many people who dis-inherit their ancestors (immigrates), hate other Christians, hate the poor, the rich, hate the middle class, hate the disadvantaged, hate the sick, hate the educated, hate the non-educated, hate the black, hate the hispanic, hate the europeans, hate the middle eastern, hate politicians, hate the car companies, hate the banks, hate the lawyers, hate the laws but they don’t hate Medicare or SS as they use that. So much hate. I think it is a useless task to address any of these people, but you get an A for effort. All we can do is pray for them, Lord, for they know not what they do.

          • Tammy

            Amen, again. It truly is sad, especially if they really, really believe what they say.

  • Turk

    Although everybody should be covered as it is ultimately less expensive then to pay the high cost of Emergency Room care, there is NO provision to cover illegal alliens living amongst us, in these bills (currently three of them)…These folks will continue to get some semblence of “health care” via Emergency Room…So there is no change from the current situation…This made up story is another example of people opposing the health reform we desperately need, scaring people, misrepresenting the facts to unsespecting and ignorant population to serve the special interest, insurance companies. These people who are enslaved and blinded by their failed dogma about the government’s role in our democracy and who are continiously for decades, making up stories and lying about it to prevent any progress in our dismal health care in this country, should be ashamed of themselves.But at the end, even they will benefit from the inevitable reform, thanks to Obama’s wise and effective way of handling this complicated issue this time around.

    • Tammy

      Very well said, Turk!

      • Brenda

        You two make me want to vomit!!! YOU REALLY THINK WE NEED MORE GOVERNMENT? AND King Obama is riding his white horse to save us, GIVE ME A BREAK. Wake up! AMERICANS VOTE AND GET THESE DRSTROYERS OUT!!!

        • Tammy

          Americans already voted the destroyers out, last November. I have never been happier to have voted in any election.

        • Tammy

          Yes, it’s difficult when people disagree with you when you’re wrong, but you’ll learn to live with it if you continue to feel the way you do. Vomit? Really? Sounds lovely.

          • Brenda

            Sorry, I mean regurgitate. Read the Bill. The averaage citizen has and they are showing up at town hall meetings saying NO! Obamas for higher taxes, borrowing and printing money we don’t have etc. etc. etc. Any time the government has more and more power, kiss our liberties & freedoms bye. Do you want to live in bondage to a government. I say no to his change, he can keep it!

        • Smilee

          Brenda

          Very few have read the whole thing and most here that have read it, read it on conservative propaganda sites after they have rewritten the bill to say what they want you to believe. Go red the original and you will find it is often different than the conservative sites, factcheck.org recently checked out 48 of the conservative propaganda items and found twenty six items to be totally false, four true and the rest misleading or half truths, tells a lot about the conservative character and their lack of concern for the truth

    • http://personellibertydigest glenn warne

      Why don’t the emergency Rooms put a couple of nurse’s to do triage and send the non-emerge. to a clinic the next day instead of telling them to takea number and wait.
      We the People pay the high Dollar health care for the non-paying not covered people. They don’t don’t pay for it so they go to the most expensive place the ER, and We pay for it! WHAT A Country!

      • Foolpatrol

        They go to one of the few places where they can be seen, the ER. A doctor who works at a clinic that cares for the poor and uninsured said in a Town Hall that the average wait for an initial appointment with a primary care doc is six to nine months. Once a person gets in, the clinic provides excellent care to those who did not die waiting or whose conditions are still susceptible to treatment.

    • duif100

      Who do you think the CRS works for and who pays them?
      They work for your own liberal congress: CRS is the research arm of the U.S. Congress.
      Anybody who disagrees with you cannot be trusted by definition. Is that the defense against your own liberal party?
      Why don’t you go and live in one of your socialistic utopias like Cuba. Join your socialistic brothers in their land of plenty and leave us to our miserable capitalistic USA. That way we can all be happy.

  • DaveH

    This is all I need to know about the health care bill:

    SEC. 59B. TAX ON INDIVIDUALS WITHOUT ACCEPTABLE HEALTH CARE COVERAGE.
    (a) Tax Imposed – In the case of any individual who does not meet the requirements of subsection (d) at any time during the taxable year, there is hereby imposed a tax equal to 2.5 percent of the excess of –

    (1) The taxpayer’s modified adjusted gross income for the taxable year, over
    (2) The amount of gross income specified in section 6012(a)(1) with respect to the taxpayer.

    By what right do you Liberals presume to force me to buy something that is contrary to my knowledge and beliefs? And Sleepee (can’t remember the name of the Dwarf you remind me of – the mental one) spare me the bull that you care about me; you have demonstrated aptly that you have contempt of my life.

    • Turk

      As American and as human beings we should all care about each other, but that is not the point! We simply no longer want to pay for yours and millions of others’ emergency room care which is ultimately more expensive than the premiums or taxes we need to pay with the proposed sytem…Shared responsibility and shared sacrifice…Furthermore if you can not afford a small amount of premiums which will buy you a better health care than you are currently receiving, you will be subsidized…Best of both worlds, ha?…Think and learn how to live in a society…

      • http://N/A Pat Rutland

        Why all of the whining over taxes? I am not a “Liberal”, just call the
        shots as I see them. Taxes will be out “appetizer”, “main course” and
        “dessert” for the rest of our life if Obama and the Dem. Congress have
        their way with this Health Care Bill and any other thing that gets
        signed into law.
        I would love a large “Banana Split” just about now, but thanks to all
        the taxes, I’ll have to pass!!

        • Tammy

          You must make a huge amount of money, Pat, if your taxes have already gone up. I am a single parent and barely make enough to get by, luckily with our new president, my taxes have not gone up and I have qualified for additional tax credits. Anyone who makes less than $250,000 a year has not seen any increase in their taxes and won’t.

          • Foolpatrol

            There you go again Tammy! Truth is not allowed in this debate. When fear, smear and Fox Talking Points don’t work, the next step is questioning whether one is patriotic, a real American. Whatever you do, do not interject truth and facts! Right wingers do not allow it!

          • Brenda

            Tammy, how do you think government is going to pay for the bill, Higher taxes, more borrowing, printing money, cutting payments and RATIONING SERVICES – The government will have too much power. They will ration medical care. More federal regulations and laws we don’t need. People are concerned about this bill’s effects on our freedoms as an American. It will kill small business people, they will bear the highest cost of the plan. We don’t need bureaucrats to run our lives. Bigger government is not better!!

      • duif100

        Think and learn how to live in a society…
        Does that mean take advantage of others in that society and enslave them to support you?

        I believe in a society where people must contibute to society before they can take from society. When they contribute we give the certificates of contribution. These certifcates can be used to obtain services like healthcare, retirement benefits, etc. from the society.
        In a modern society they call these certificates sometimes money.

        I challenge Obama and all his supporters to donate everything they posess more than I do to charity. Once their posessions and income are equal to mine I will match all their further donations to society, charity and taxes.
        If they ask me to donate more without exposing themselves to the same living conditions, they are no more than a bunch of hypocrats.
        Let’s make it equal for all and start with the example that the great Obama sets.

        The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people’s money (Margareth Thatcher). Let’s see if all those moral do gooders are willing to run out of their own money first.

    • Smilee

      The constitution gives the congress the right to levy taxes, fact you do not like that does not alter this right

      • duif100

        Yes that is true but the purposes for which we can be taxed are limited and healthcare is not one of them.

        • eyeswideopen

          oops, The pursuit of happiness for some maybe health, for others it’s carrying a gun. To each his own.

        • Smilee

          Are you trying to convince us that Medicare is illegal or chip or medicaid, you people who believe your own lies amaze me

  • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Grandma from PA

    LIBERALS SPEND OTHER PEOPLES MONEY. Case in point, has anyone checked
    Biden’s contributions on his tax return, $340. How generous for a
    millionaire, but he will take your hard EARNED money and give it away to COMMUNITY ORGANIZERS, ILLEGL ALIENS, $2B FOR OIL EXPLORATION IN BRAZIL, NOT HERE IN THE US. Illegals are just that. They ALL need to
    be deported back to where they came from and give us a chance to re-build this country though, dare I say this DIRTY word to the left, CAPITALISM. If you don’t agree with the left, you ae RACIST! The town halls were packed with SEIU thugs, who were pushed in the side door ahead of the public. I was there and saw this. All I can say is get your faith and get ready for the FIGHT. SPEAK UP, MARCH, PROTEST, MAKE A STINK! Go to the Reps Office, your Senator’s office, send a letter, send an e-mail, let this ELITE CROWD KNOW you want your Constitutional rights, MANY of which the Government has already usurped. Then VOTE THEM ALL OUT OF OFFFICE. See you in Washington 9-12!! GOD BLESS AMERICA, AND UNITED WE STAND!

    • Tammy

      Are you aware that this country was built by immigrants? We dont feel that everyone is a racist if they disagree with us, but many that disagree are making racist statements, and seem to forget that immigrants are what made this country strong and, unless you are a native american, your family came here as immigrants too. You all need to remember that we are all brothers and sisters and are in this together, so we need to find a way to move forward without resorting to the name calling and nasty behavior of the far right.

      • DaveH

        Yes indeed, what right do we have to besmirch someone who is only sticking their hands in our wallets to help themselves? We are such ogres for wanting to live our lives unhampered by the Liberals who know what is best for us!

        • Tammy

          DaveH, will you please respond to my previous reply?

          • Smilee

            Tammy

            He never responds to what you write and always either goes off on a tangent or changes the subject, good communication is not one of his traits

          • DaveH

            I don’t waste my time responding to zealots. You can read my posts all over the site if you want to know my opinion. I don’t respond to closed-minded Liberals to change their mind, as I am not so dumb as to believe I can change the mind of people who are hooked on OPM (other peoples’ money). If I do reply, it is only to counteract the poison that you Liberals spew.

          • Smilee

            DaveH says:
            September 3, 2009 at 2:02 pm

            Davie, you respond to just about everyone on these sites, yes we have figured out you have a big hatred of government and those that will not agree with you. Davie you respond for all kinds of reasons and it is my opinion you do not even understand why and I do not think you have ever been successful in counteracting anyone and in the process have shown your inability to be in touch with reality

      • http://personellibertydigest glenn warne

        Not that tired old arguement this place was built by Immigrants! So what where are they now?? They are dead. Jefferson want each new generation to tear up the Consitition and write a new one, we don’t do that either. The main reason Immigrants came here was the land was cheap(free). Then came the Indentured servants which somehow nobody mentions anymore, another name for a white Slave.
        Quit trying to save the world and fix what’s in your own back yard.
        Have you help anybody in need in your neighborhood??? Yet you want to give freebies to a bunch of Illegals you don’t even know!

        • Tammy

          By the way, If you want government to stay out of our lives, maybe they should just let anyone in who wants to come, maybe we should not police the borders, tell government to stay out of it!! Indentured servants were very different from slaves, they were working off a debt, not just sold and no chance of freedom. And yes, I help my neighbors as well, on my street, in my community, wherever I can.

          • eyeswideopen

            Tammy, they don’t want to grow the government except to get more police for the border, and to keep Medicare for themselves, haven’t heard one person say cancel Medicare and let’s fend for ourselves.Why? because they like that paticular socialised government run plan, it works for them. But to hell with anyone else who needs medical care. They also want, police, fireman, emergency vehicles, maintained roadways, social security, help during natural disasters, school vouchers, etc. etc.. without paying taxes. I would love to live in Fairyland, but sanity prevails and I work, pay taxes, go to church and hope the “fringe” reallly are taking care of themselves, but I doubt it.

          • DaveH

            Okay Eyes,
            Here’s one. Cancel Medicare. First though we need to find some way to reimburse those who were forced to pay against their will.
            Loosen the red-tape so that people can immigrate to this country more easily but be documented. Enforce the laws while they are on the books, or eliminate them.

          • DaveH

            I have had well over $500,000 taxed away from me during my 35 year work life. Illegal thieves have stolen $1000 from me during that time. The police have hassled me far more often than they have aided me. The courts have hassled me far more often than they have aided me.
            You can present hypothetical arguments all you want, but the truth is that none of us has experienced life without Big Government. And contrary to Liberal beliefs, experience is a much better teacher than any amount of Liberal jawboning.

          • Smilee

            DaveH says:
            September 3, 2009 at 2:20 pm

            davie

            you

            Complain, complain, complain, whine, whine whine

          • eyeswideopen

            Dave,paying everybody back would be cheap compared to the money that we use to subsidize all those capitalist major companies, hell we are on our way with the 2.3 billion Pfizer has to pay in penalities for fraudulent marketing. Cut the Advantage plan which is costing us roughly a trillion. Let the Big Pharma companies fund their own research by stopping the NIH grants and we would be able to pay all of you. I don’t think you know how much you really paid in but I would bet it is no where near 500,000K or you wouldn’t be so mad that your wife took you for alot of money. I think ,not totally positive but i think we only pay in 1.2 % for Medicare. It would mean you are a multi-millionaire and then you wouldn’t care about the divorce monies. You are very very angry and it is probably mis-placed anger.

            Just when I think I am understanding your thought process, you change and recommend using vouchers for school. That’s so government, I just am not sure you really are a pure Libertarian.

            It is interesting that the radical, liberals, conservatives, all changed position in the book….really ironic.

      • duif100

        This country was built on LEGAL imigrants. Once the country was built to the highest living standard the world had ever seen, the illegal aliens streamed in, in order to capitalize on the work of others.
        If you deliberately try to use statements which are partially true but misleading, you must be desparate for a good substantiation of your viewpoint. You belong in Obama’s cabinet or at least some Czar position like Czar of Public Information.

    • Brenda

      Hi Grandma, your are a neat person. God Bless You!! You are so right!

    • Smilee

      h grandma better have your hearing aids checked, you sure are not hearing the boob tube very good as you got your facts mixed up.

    • duif100

      Grandma I like what you stand for. One thing you are to soft on illegals. Why should we just send them back?
      Put them in jail until we have the funds received from their friends and family to return them on their own expense. This would generate some common sense on the other side of the border that it might be cheaper to stay on their own side or enter the USA legaly.

    • eyeswideopen

      Do you know that the definition of racism is:The notion that one’s own ethnic stock is superior. Every time you have the urge to malign someone, just think of your immigrate ancestors and Jesus standing right by you,,,, you will be amazed at how you may rethink your position and speech.

      • DaveH

        Eyes,
        Be real. You have even accused people of racism with no evidence fitting your definition. The Liberals are constantly using that word to disparage and manipulate those who disagree.

        • eyeswideopen

          No Dave, I have accused my party, the Republicans of acting with racism, I have not called anyone a racist on this site. I called you a bigot, after you called me one, and assumed I was black, because I didn’t agree with you.

  • John

    The liberals point out that illegal immigrants will not be covered under this act. But then next year they will grant them amnesty and make them all citizens. Then the illegals will be covered, the only difference is they won’t be classified as illegals anymore. Americans need to see through this smokescreen. The illegals are bankrupting our hospitals in the southwest.

    • Tammy

      If illegal aliens are somehow made citizens, and then can buy into a public option…what is the problem? We need something to happen to stop people who cannot pay from causing everyone’s health insurance premium to go up, by using the emergency room at the hospital, so let’s get an affordable public option, then we can all have health coverage and won’t need to clog up the emergency room..sounds like problem solved.

      • s c

        Tammy, where do you get these ideas? When you say ‘sounds like problem solved,’ you’re saying that a quick ‘solution’ is the ‘best’ solution. Are you one of those yahoos who demands that this infernal legislation be passed IMMEDIATELY and without a lengthy debate? Would you enslave us with a dictatorial government, just because it’s soooooooo convenient?
        Please, re-think your words. With b o, there is no such thing as an affordable public option. His solution for everything is to throw money at it. In the real world, that’s not a solution. Don’t you realize that when you have no choice, you have NO options? Do you really know what b o’s single payer really is and what it will do to America? What’s more important to you – shortcuts or real solutions?

        • Tammy

          Once again, remember, if you’re right there is no need for name calling, that’s why I do not resort to it. Why you are making things up and then asking people to respond to it is beyond me. What are you talking about? Really. If even your questions don’t make sense, how can we even have a discussion?

          • DaveH

            Tammy,
            Hold up a mirror if you can stand the shock. You have name-called and ridiculed the ideas of others throughout this webpage.

          • Smilee

            Davie,

            I’ll bet she is a hell of a lot prettier than you are

          • eyeswideopen

            Dave, you need to stop living in the past, we don’t care how rich Kennedy was or Rockerfeller, you promote capitalism, you should be glad they got rich. Our problems today need to be dealt with now. But if you want to go there, try reading the fortune 500, you would either be proud or very unhappy to see all of the Republicans. So are you a real capitalist or just an unhappy Libertarian?

        • Tammy

          Just wondering,sc, by b o, do you mean President Obama? And, just because I want a public option (like Medicare), doesn’t mean I think there should be no choice, who would suggest such a ridiculous thing? A public option would force the health insurance companies to compete and probably lower their rates to do so. That would help EVERYONE, except the health insurance execs. You do know how unbelievably freakin rich the health insurance execs are….right?

          • DaveH

            The politics of envy won’t get us anywhere Tammy. Do you know how “freakin rich” Ted Kennedy was? Do you know how “freaking rich” John Rockefeller is? Why are they? If their Democrat hearts bleed so bad, why don’t they donate all their money, except that which they need to live (maybe a couple million at most)? These people are using your blind greed to secure your support and votes for one reason only: They want to be your leaders, with all the power and wealth that leadership brings with it.

      • http://anita.green@lmco.com ann

        Tammy – - we loose more Americans a year – killed by illegals on American soil – than we have lost soldiers in this 8 year war – and our soldiers were in a terrorist nation.
        Look it up – just type in ” Americans killed by Illegals ” or
        illegals killing Americans – lots of ways to look it up – pages and pages of pictures of children, their mothers raped beaten, strangled
        the elderly being killed in the neighborhoods they grew up in -
        how can you say we need to make them citizens – we need to stop
        giving them employement, housing, & free aid – they need to go home and come back in the right way – with a background check & legal – For all the parents of the murdered children found in ditches’for all the parents of the drunk drivers here illegally that have killed our kids, for all the children whose parents have been murdered for pennies in their house -

        The President of this country owes American citizens and their families the right to live.. We should lock up every employer – every landlord anyone that harbors or employes any illegal without a complete background check- but yet we let them cross the bordor, work meager jobs – sell drugs on the side – bring all their family here & provide our emergency rooms as their health care – as they increase in gangs, and destruction of neighborhoods, our ellected official that are paid by us to protect us turn a blind eye to all in the name of some cheap labor.
        look this up – page after page of sad, sad pictures of murdered cops
        just pulling them over for speeding – do some research and then come back and tell us we should just make them citizens and problem solved.

        • Tammy

          And many more of these horrific acts are caused by Americans as well. You cannot paint them all with the same brush. Many, many Americans commit horrendous crimes against humanity, maybe we can deport them too.

          • Steph

            Tammy, you’re missing the point. Yes, many Americans and legal immigrants (see the word “legal”) perpetuate horrific crimes and we have an American justice system to deal with it. Every American citizen and legal immigrant death at the hands of an illegal (see the word “illegal”) alien is on the heads of every politician, cop, employer, etc. who let the illegal alien population explode and thrive here in the US. We have laws on the books covering what constitutes legal and illegal immigration. These laws need to be enforced. And before you go spouting off about how we Americans need to be humane, go and educate yourself about other countries immigration laws.

        • Foolpatrol

          Well, one thing we know for sure is that * Lack of health insurance causes 18,000 unnecessary deaths of human beings in the United States every year. This equates to approximately one death every thirty minutes. Source: Insuring America’s Health: Principles and Recommendations http://www.iom.edu/CMS/3809/4660/17632.aspx

          Dead is Dead, right?

          • DaveH

            Oh yeah, we “know that for sure”. I have seen figures that dwarf that for the number of deaths caused by the FDA. But I know the answer that I would get from you if I bothered to look up those accusations.

      • duif100

        Who says all those illegals can afford to buy into the public option?

        There is no law that prohibilts illegals from buying private healthcare insurance now. They don’t and we pay the bills now.

        That argument sound like laying more people off to solve the umemployment problem.

        Brilliant! You must have heard Joe Biden’s comment that we must spend more money that we do not have to spend ourselves out of debt.
        Economics 101 was too dificult for Joe, he is still studying Economics 0.0000.

        • Tammy

          Who says they wouldn’t? I don’t know for certain that I will be able to buy into a public option, but I must assume I will because the whole point of it is to make affordable healthcare for all. I have no healthcare now because I cannot afford it. I cannot afford private health insurance. We can only hope that the public option will help us all to be covered.

          • DaveH

            Tammy,
            Oh yeah, you will not only be able to buy into it, you will have no choice under the current House Bill.

      • John

        These illegal aliens do NOT deserve to be made citizens of our country. As long as there is the slightest chance for amnesty, I will not support BO’s health plan. If it was up to me, I’d round ‘em all up and deport them deep into their own country even if they have 10 kids. They come here pregnant and then have more and more and more babies (with the Pope’s blessing) thinking that will protect them from deportation.

  • sonny

    You can debate and argue all you want about health care, I say it is socialistic period. We have anywhere from 12 to 20 million illegal aliens here (who knows for sure). We spend $11 billion dollars a year on their health care. We have $100 billon dollars per year in fraud. In Texas we spend 150 million dollars per year for illegal alien incarceration, not counting time in local jails and court cost. California and Pennsylvania is also having troubles with their budgets because of illegal aliens. If our gutless leaders wanted to do something productive for a change they would pass a bill declaring that being born on American soil does not make you an American citizen, this would stop a lot of the problems. When the child is born here they are American citizens and are entitled to all the privileges Welfare, Wix & etc. This does not take in account all the jobs they take away frome American citizens. When will our elected officials have enough guts to pass this bill and stop catering to the hispanic vote?

    • BABUSHSKA

      Because the hispanic vote will get them re-elected, that’s why.

      • Smilee

        Illegals are not allowed to vote and few try to.

    • eyeswideopen

      If nobody knows how many we have, how do you come up with a cost?? wow. that is really just amazing!!!! Did you just pick that number out of the air?? Cool…

      • duif100

        Because the hospitals bill the state governments for the services rendered and not paid for by the illegals. That is how they know how much it costs.
        Are you stupid or do you just pretend to be stupid?

        • Tammy

          How nice of you to call names. Shows that you know how wrong you are.

        • eyeswideopen

          You say between “12-20 million (who knows for sure)” Then you start quoting costs….Sweatie, you need to understand that you can’t attribute the costs to a group of people untill you know how many are in that group and what their legal status is. Too many unknown variables to do an effective study. No, I’m really not stupid, I did cost analysis for an aircraft simulator company prior to early retirement.

      • Tammy

        Smilee and eyeswideopen, you are both great! It’s so refreshing to hear reasonable, rational people.

        • Smilee

          Tammy

          You have great insight and knowledge and are doing a great job here unfortunately so many here do not know the truth and and even worse many do and just do not care, keep up the good work, Thanks

        • eyeswideopen

          Refreshing, So glad you are here.

    • Foolpatrol

      But passing that bill is contrary to the Constitution, right? So does this mean that you agree that our Constitution and other founding documents are foundations subject to admendment with changing circumstances?

      FYI You can’t pass a bill and change the Constitution. It has to be amended and the Amendment must to ratified by a percentage of the states. Wouldn’t want you sounding like Sarah ‘give me free’ Palin, right?

  • Carmen

    Turk,
    Its true there should be respect, but how about respect to the citizens that live in this country. Americans have always given much to those in need, but when our country is hurting due to this behavior, what is expected of us?? Respect goes both ways, and remember, if and when they are given citizenship, they will NOT be these poor folks that do those jobs you speak of, but they will be looking for better jobs, maybe yours. If they keep those jobs, then they will unionize and expect a lot more money. Better to just pay Americans a good wage to do those so called jobs that no one wants.

    • Tammy

      Carmen, why is everyone so afraid that immigrants are going to take their jobs? You say that they may if they become citizens, so could ANYONE, not just immigrants, all of us could, potentially, take someone else’s job, why not be angry that Americans are going to take other Americans jobs? The focus just seems very prejudiced here.

      • Steph

        I’m going to jump in here and discuss illegal aliens taking the jobs of Americans. I live in Reno, NV. Reno is a sanctuary city and does not enforce any laws when it comes to illegal aliens. My husband served in the military and fought for this country and your freedoms. After leaving the military, he took a job as a carpenter. For over twenty years he has worked steadily (40 hours + weekly). On April 29, 2009 he was laid off due to the downturn of the economy. His company didn’t go out of business, instead they hired fifteen Mexican citizens at 1/3 of what the fifteen men they replaced used to make. All fifteen of the laid off employees filed a grievance through the Carpenter’s Union, e-verify was employed and eleven of the fifteen replacements came back with a “no match” and NOTHING has been done. Reno’s got about an 85% illegal Mexican citizen immigration, so it’s a good chance that the majority of these replacement workers are illegal. And NOTHING has been done to the company.

        Until you walk a mile in a displaced American worker’s shoes, don’t pass judgment.

        • Smilee

          He should have joined a union and they would have protected him from that, works every time

        • Smilee

          Oops, you said they did belong to a union, does not sound like it though as the union would have prevented it, I’m doubt you have been told the truth

          • eyeswideopen

            Smilee, where is Dave, can’t believe he’s not in here?

          • Steph

            Smilee, the simple fact that you said the Union would have protected him shows how very little you know about the nature of today’s unions and I’m not even going to touch the calling me a liar – because you have all knowing power, blah, blah, blah.

            Myth #1 – Illegals do the jobs Americans won’t.

            Fact – Today’s unions, at least in the state of NV, are full of illegal aliens making very good union wages and benefits. Unions here don’t e-verify, or check for citizenship nor do the majority of businesses who employee illegals. (When’s the last time you went to a NV casino? And you do know that that three of NVs largest unions work with the casinos, right?) If an illegal alien presents with documents, they are never checked to see if they are fraudulent. The really sad part of all this, many of the illegal alien union members who are employed never make more than bottom scale union wages. They are taken advantage of as much as they take advantage. It’s a sad, sick vicious cycle with American workers being hurt most of all.

            All that matters to the union is that they have another paying member. All that matters to the employer is that they have an employee that they can pay bottom scale wages. Don’t believe me, check how involved the unions are with CIR (that’s Comprehensive Immigration Reform in case you don’t know the acronym) talks.

            Things are changing with 287G and e-verify but not enough and not quickly enough.

          • Smilee

            Well, S C said he drinks, maybe he drank to much and passed out, or maybe his wife gave him a time out, who knows, do you miss him??? lol

          • Smilee

            Steph says:
            September 3, 2009 at 6:49 am

            Boy are you ignorant about labor law, I do know I was heavily involved with unions for forty years and just retired and still volunteer in different union activities, unions can be sued if they do not enforce the contracts and it happens quite often but those suing rarely succeed because unions do enforce their contracts, but there so much bias against unions these days, like you show in your post, that many spew out all kinds of lies as the truth will not take them to the ends they want. Have you ever been a union member? How do you know who is an illegal immigrant and who is not, I never met one who had a sign on them saying so. I suspect you really do not know and want us to believe you do, show us the facts and the truth but I doubt you can come up with it.

          • eyeswideopen

            Steph, sounds like alot of your problems lie with your state. Have you contacted your Senator? Oh, oops, considering who that is, you might not want to waste your time, as he doesn’t seem to have any compassion for the sick or disabled, much less people like yourself fighting an immigration problem that the Republican Congress and House didn’t want to address from 1995 to 2006. I am sorry for your situtation and I hope it improves. We need many many things reformed in this country.

        • eyeswideopen

          Have you turned them into the authorities? Why not?? Everyone complaining and no-one taking any action. If you stand by and do nothing, the problem escalates.

          • Steph

            Why do you assume we are doing nothing? I love how people who aren’t living with the negative consequences of illegal immigration on a daily basis pass judgment. Of course we’ve talked to authorities. Reno doesn’t use the 287G program so local police aren’t interested in illegal alien workers unless they’ve committed a crime (and being a sanctuary city, the police aren’t allowed to go after someone because they are in the country illegally), they say it’s a federal matter. ICE has the information, but have told us with the back log they have it will take awhile to investigate. The union knows and all they’ve done is file the grievance and e-verify the members involved. And even though the numbers for these eleven men don’t match, they’ve done nothing else. These eleven men get 90 days to prove they are who the say they are.

          • Smilee

            Steph says:
            September 3, 2009 at 6:56 am

            Cannot you read????? he didn’t assume anything merely asked a question, unbelivable

          • eyeswideopen

            Steph, I didn’t assume anything, I merely asked you a question.

      • duif100

        Jobs are not available in unlimited quantities.
        If there are 1000 jobs available and 1040 people without work who applie for those jobs we will end up with 40 left out of work. If we add 500 illegal aliens with amnesty to the workforce the available number of jobs does not increase. We will end up with 540 people out of work. This will cause lower wages and the 1000 who found a job are worse off and will have to work for a lower wage. The sitution for the 540 unemployed will become hopeless.

        • Foolpatrol

          “Illegal aliens with amnesty” are no longer illegal and are entitled to work in the US. Perhaps the Republican God, Reagan, shouldn’t have awarded all of that amnesty.

          • eyeswideopen

            I forgot he did that!! What a Republican do anything wrong?? Never. Fool, I am a Republican so I can bash us for all the mistakes we made and never took responsibility for.

      • DaveH

        Oh no Tammy, you don’t participate in name-calling:
        “The focus just seems very prejudiced here”

        • Smilee

          I have yet to see her do it, vey polite gal, she makes a very good role model for you, doubt you are wise enough to see that through

        • eyeswideopen

          So, Dave if you are focused then you are name calling??? Holy hell, what is wrong with you?

  • Carmen

    Tammy, I’m happy to respond to you. All those you speak of were legal. There lies the difference. They did not bring down the economy and come with their hands out, but came here with dignity and legally to contribute to make this country great. They are equally appalled by what is happening. I know, I am one.

    • Tammy

      Back in the beginning, Carmen, there was no one to say legal or otherwise. I agree that people should come here legally and the way they used to do it(have someone or a group sponsor them to make sure they did not become a burden on society), was a fabulous way and the right way. I am not arguing for illegal immigrants, but some (most?) of the people who are making remarks here against them would probably prefer to see all immigrants back in their own countries. They keep referring to people taking jobs away from Americans, if the Americans wanted these low paying jobs, they would not have been available for others to “take them away”. And if they are working, then they are not a drain on society but working members of such.

    • eyeswideopen

      Welcome, Carmen. I know “natural born” citizens who aren’t productive and hate this country, glad to have you,,, enjoy your new home.

  • Serena

    WHEN WILL SOMEONE START THE IMPEACHMENT PROCESS ON OBAMA? HE AND HIS LIBERAL SOCIALIST DEMS (ROCKERFELLERS, ETC.) MUST BE STOPPED FROM DESTROYING THIS COUNTRY? WHEN IS ENOUGH ENOUGH, IT’S BEEN GOING ON TOO LONG AND NO ONE IS STOPPING THEM.

    • Smilee

      First you have to have a high crime or misdemeanor for impeachment and he has not committed either so your out of luck there and most of the ROCKERFELLERS have been republicans

      • duif100

        The party association is irrelevant. What they do and stand for to get votes does.
        I did deliberately not say what they principles stand for because I believe that they have none.

        • Tammy

          duif, I’m sorry but you seem to have your administrations mixed up, you seem to think gw is still the pres, when you mention their lack of principles.

    • s c

      Don’t hold your breath on impeachment. B O’s main weakness now is his ‘need’ to be an FDR II. FDR was fittingly humiliated by the Supreme Court. This is proper remedy for B O and his czars. His other weakness is his health care ‘reform’ paranoia.
      This twisted scam will give government total control over every man, woman and child. Not only is this a high price to pay, it is insanity and tells us much about b o’s ‘character.’
      B O expects America to swallow poison (to make America ‘better’). This is how he defines ‘change.’ He didn’t pre-package the poison right, or it would have passed without any debate ["trust me. just because it won't kill you immediately doesn't mean it's not good for you"]. What a brilliant position for a prez to have. He’s the current poster child for the best and brightest crowd. In no way can America afford to sacrifice for anyone who sees our freedom as a chess piece. See b o for who and what he is – or you can take your chances with his oncoming train wreck.

      • Tammy

        Please, please get professional help now. The voices in your head are making you crazy. Calm down…no one mentioned poison…yet..hahahaha

    • Foolpatrol

      “High crimes or misdemeanors,” that would be Dubya and his cronies. E.g., Treason, war crimes, no bid contrats to cronies, torture, rendition … . We can no longer impeach Dubya but we can try and punish him, maybe even execute him (just kidding). Are you with me Serena?

      • DaveH

        Too late Fool. I’ve already reported you for threatening a former president. That’s a joke of course.

    • Brenda

      Serena, We need to vote them all out. The truth will prevail!! God Bless America!!!

  • http://PersonalLibertyDigest Grandma from PA

    Tammy, you sound like the playbook for Obama. How rich are the Insurance Companies Execs. I don’t care how much money they make!
    It’s called CAPITALISM. If you have the “goods”, and they are the best, someone will pay you well for it. You talk socialist propaganda.
    Everyone should be equal, REDISTRIBUTE THE WEALTH…as an Independent that statement summed up this President, and that is why I did not vote for him. He doesn’t care about the people, hate to break it to you, but the ONE needs votes. This is why he will TRY to legalize these ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS, INCLUDING HIS AUNT FROM AFRICA. Tell you girl, we will not go down without a fight on this issue and there are a few more burrs under my saddle.

  • Smilee

    Grandma are you starting to go senile, you sound kind of mixed up

    • Katina

      That’s not very nice!!

      • Smilee

        Neither is telling lies and spewing hate

        • DaveH

          Sleepee, surely nobody except the Liberals on this board takes you seriously. Your ears are bookends to a vacuum.

          • Smilee

            Oh davie, you where just complaining on this site about people name calling when Tammy didn’t even do it, cannot you follow your own advise, Is that to complicated for you

  • http://Cox.net Berwyn Steele Sr.

    I wish that all these people that are doing all this writing would wirte to their senators and congress and tell them to stop giving our Monies away to illegals and keep for the needie if it has to be handed out the way it is because the poor people of america could use it better then some one else from another country.I think we need to replace the congress, senata and anyone else that stickes their fingers into out SSI as this is money that we have paid into for years so that when we get to old to work or take care of ourselves that we would not have to worry about a small amount of money each month to eat on and help us buy pills and see a dr. as we needed them. But you no what the goverment got their hands on it (By hook or by crook and now they think its theirs to do as they please and thats bull and its about time we let them know that. They have no rights to that money and they only have a right if we let them get by with it. All we have to do is vote them out and put a new person in their place and make sure that they don’t steal us blind before we get them out of office. They have gotten to thinking that they were not elected to the office they now hold and that they can do as they please but that is wrong and its up to use to change that way that they think by getting them out of office as some that they can not be taken out of the office they have held for many years, so we need to get them out and get people that will do a good job and not steal us blind while doing it. Lets read and see how will each of these people have been doing their jobs and if they are not doing them the way they should, get them out of office. We do not need a bunch of crooks in office. Lets vote in new people as they have been in their to long as is.

    • Tammy

      Berwyn, we have voted out the crooks, that happened last Nov. have you been gone? Don’t worry, Pres. Obama is in office now and he is wroking on fixing all the bad, horrible stuff that gw and his cronies did. Relax, it will all be fixed soon. Don’t worry, President Obama will take care of it. He is the BEST president I can ever remember. I am so proud to be an American with that great man in office. Relax, it will all be better soon. The last 8 years were just a bad dream.

      • s c

        Like wow, man. You are so far out. Were you at Woodstock? Like, all these words are so out there. Maybe you can turn me on to whatever keeps you so very far out.
        Like, I wish I was 14 so I could think the way you does. Like, it’s too groovy, man. It’s a trip. It’s a deep groove.
        Gotta go. Got the munchies and a need to express myself. Wish I could come up to your level, man. Peace and love. Far out!

        • Smilee

          S C

          You finally said something cute, wrong but cute and funny

        • Tammy

          s c, I’m sorry you seem unable to respond intelligently. Perhaps you really have burned up all your brain cells, that would explain alot!! If you can’t keep up, maybe we could find someone to explain things to you on your level. Have you tried Headstart? Oops, sorry, that’s a federally funded program.

          • Smilee

            Good One!!

          • eyeswideopen

            OMG!! lol.lol…priceless.

      • Katina

        Tammy, is this your prayer????? Because incase you haven’t noticed, this administration’s approval rating is falling rapidly!!

        Our country was built on life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, not everything being handed out free to the ‘so called’ disadvantaged or the illegals!! I don’t know about you, but most of us have had to work hard for everything we have, and now we’d like to keep it!! I believe in taking care of me and mine not those who refuse to work or even try to make a difference!! I give to those organizations and charities I choose to help not let the government take it from me to line their own pockets. Just something for you to think on!!

        • Tammy

          Katina, I don’t change my opinion of something based on how popular it is. President Obama’s approval ratings have fallen partially because of all the lies the far right have spread and many people who don’t know any better are frightened because of it. I feel sorry for them and think it is despicable that they have been used this way. Unlike you, I believe in taking care of “me and mine”, and also my brothers and sisters in this world. The more I can do to help others, the more my life is enriched. Try it, you’ll feel wonderful.

      • Brenda

        Tammy, you are demented, God help you. Sooooooooo blind to the truth!

        • Smilee

          OH, nasty. nasty

    • Katina

      Very well put Berwyn! I write my Senators and Congressman on a regular basis and always get a response back. Of course they want to be voted back in! But you know, they have all let us down one way or another and now it’s time for the American people to keep speaking up and continue fighting for what this country really means. If you look at many of the proposed bills, such as healthcare, Social Security, Medicare, and defense, the US government won’t be affected by any of it. Most draw their salaries for a life time and when they die, their spouses will draw it. They won’t even live under the proposed healthcare plan. It’s just for us worker bees so they can tap into our earned income and any monies that come our way. As for defense a good number of them haven’t even served or had family members who have served. What’s good for the goose should be good for the gander. It’s all about power and control! They aren’t thinking of us at all! As a matter of fact, I wonder if most of them even know what they’re doing!

      • Tammy

        Katina, how have you gotten everything backwards??? Yes, the proposed bills will affect us “worker bees”, it will give us affordable health insurance and medicare when we need it and social security when we are old so we don’t live off stale bread and cat food someday. Don’t you understand?? This helps us. HELPS US. Only THE RICH will have to pay a little more in taxes…..aaah, now I see, just how rich are you? I forget sometimes that the opposers are not really the common people, but the rich ones who want the little guy to do their fighting for them. I got it now, wink, wink.

    • Tammy

      Berwyn, you are aware that we had a surplus in Social Security until Pres. Bush took it for his war, aren’t you? A SURPLUS. Bush took it. Sould be charged with stealing.

  • Katina

    Ecellant comments for which I agree for the most part. I wonder how many of you have written your Senators and Congressmen on this very topic? Just goole ‘write your senators’ and copy and paste your comments and send on to them. It does make a difference!! Here’s to a strong and free country as our forefathers tried to build and protect!!

    • Foolpatrol

      Thanks Katrina. I wrote and demanded meaningful Health Reform with a Public Option!

      I educated my Senators on the facts:

      Private insurers convene the “Death Panels” which place price tags on our very lives! Every day private insurers decide who is worthy of coverage and who is denied due to preexisting conditions, family history and genetics, lifestyle choices, weight and even credit scores. Private Insurers tell us which doctors we can see, which hospitals and other healthcare providers we can access, how much it will pay those providers, which medications it will cover, which medications we are required to experiment with before we can step up to the medication that our physicians initially determined to be most effective, which alternatives physicians present to patients, which procedures are covered, which procedures are labeled experimental despite successful clinical outcomes and denies coverage for those life saving procedures, which specialists we can see and under what circumstances we can see them, which procedures are more cost effective aka cheaper even in the wake of record profits, and whether we are candidates for transplants and other life prolonging procedures and treatments. Nonetheless, those of us fortunate enough to have health insurance are relieved as hell to have it.

      * Lack of health insurance causes 18,000 unnecessary deaths of human beings in the United States every year. This equates to approximately one death every thirty minutes. Source: Insuring America’s Health: Principles and Recommendations
      http://www.iom.edu/CMS/3809/4660/17632.aspx

      * An uninsured woman with breast cancer is 60 percent more likely to die than an insured woman with the same condition. Source: American Cancer Society

      * 45.7 million people were uninsured for the entire 2007 calendar year. Source: United States Census Bureau

      * 62 percent of American bankruptcies are directly linked to medical bills. Source: Medical Bankruptcy in the United States, 2007. http://download.journals.elsev…..002-9343…

      * 78 percent of the people who filed medical bankruptcies had health insurance, but gaps and inadequate coverage left them unprotected and financially ruined. Source: Medical Bankruptcy in the United States, 2007.

      * 29 percent of low and middle-income households with credit card balances pay off medical expenses over time with credit cards. Source: Zeldin C, Rukavina M., Borrowing To Stay Healthy: How Credit Card Debt Is Related To Medical Expenses. http://www.accessproject.org/a…..ealthy.pdf Accessed July 18, 2008.

      * Before the Bush Recession, an American family filed for bankruptcy in the aftermath of illness every 90 seconds; three quarters of them were insured. Source: Medical Bankruptcy in the United States, 2007.

      * Under Medicare, 3 percent of every dollar goes to administrative costs. Conversely, in excess of 30 percent of every private insurance dollar goes to administrative costs. Abuse in the Medicare system is directly attributable to providers and not recipients of health care services.

    • eyeswideopen

      Katina, I write min of 10 letters everyday. Also sign petitions, and email all my friends,family and their friends and family. Finally I have become an activist and not just a complainer.

  • Smilee

    Katina says:
    September 3, 2009 at 6:17 am

    Obama’s ratings or anyone else’s have nothing to do with weather he is right or wrong. Do you not think health care is a part of life liberty and happiness. Illegals will not be given free insurance that is just another lie being spread by the far right wingers
    Katina says:
    September 3, 2009 at 6:17 am

    YOU SAY: I believe in taking care of me and mine not those who refuse to work.

    How about those who are unable to work?? How about those who cannot get jobs in the recession, those that refuse to work is a very small percentage of the whole, but because of them you want everyone to suffer if they have no means of support, are not their rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness equally as important as yours. Your lack of concern for your fellow man in your statements in your post illuminate you selfish and greedy nature. If your so hell bent on taking care of yourself and your house catches fire put it out yourself and do not call your fire department as that is also paid for with your friends and neighbors money as well as your own. What would it be like if we outlawed fire departments and let everyone fiend for themselves when a fire breaks out. It seems from your post that would provide for your happiness

    • Foolpatrol

      How about those who work every day but whose employers do not offer coverage, or those who work but cannot get affordable coverage due to pre-existing conditions?

      • Tammy

        Hi Foolpatrol, I am one of those folks who do not have any health insurance, so what these people say is rather personal to me. I work 40-50 hours a week and sometimes more. I am a single mother. I was a nice, stay at home mom, homeschooling my son, when my husband left, years ago. I had to re enter the workforce after being out for 13 years. I have no money left over for health insurance after I pay all my bills, and feed and clothe my son. Even so, I try to teach my son that no matter how little we have there is always someone that has less, so we donate to many charities and volunteer in our community. Before any of these “haters” suggest that I use the money I donate, for health insurance, it would take many, many years to save that kind of money up, I certainly don’t send that much, but enough to teach my son how important it is to help each other. I would be so happy for a public option, as I already have several health issues I would like to get checked out, but cannot afford to go to the doctor. In fact, I haven’t been to a doctor in years, just don’t have the money. When these people suggest that those who would benefit from this don’t work hard, it just shows how ignorant they are.

        • Smilee

          My hats off to you, Maam

        • Smilee

          Hang in there we will get health care reform yet??? I can feel it, the time is right despite all the negative baloney being thrown around here

          • eyeswideopen

            Hey, Smilee, American Citizen, asked on another site here, for information about your health insurance. Getting old can’t remember which one,, sorry.

        • Foolpatrol

          Hang in there Tammy! We’re not going to stop because health care for all Americans is a moral issue!

        • eyeswideopen

          You are now in my prayers. Keep fighting, there are alot of us, who truly understand that due to the way this country has been run,many people are in situations through no fault of their own, in which they can’t afford health care. I have to believe that the moral fabric of this country will not continue to allow the suffering of so many. God Bless.

          • Tammy

            smilee, eyeswideopen, Foolpatrol, thanks! We all have our situations and problems, we just have to stick together and hope that all will benefit ultimately. I appreciate your prayers and keep us all in mine.

  • DaveH

    I think the Liberals in this nation are trying to desperately pass nationalized healthcare before we witness the collapse of the other countries who have had it for a couple of decades.
    Let’s see now, there are 40-50 million people who can’t get medical care, and the health-care industry charges too much money for health-care. So let’s fix it by throwing those uninsured people at the already-too-few doctors in our country, and by adding some know-nothing middle men who won’t be subject to firing if they don’t care to do their job right.
    It’s so funny to me, because you Liberals have for decades whined about lack of ‘choice’, and here you are trying to forcibly remove the choice of others. The truth is that you are easily spoon-fed because you want something for nothing at other peoples’ expense. And the leaders who are partying on our dime, love your greedy blind devotion.

    • Smilee

      Just more bullshit from davie

      • DaveH

        Sleepee,
        Do you hear an echo in that vacuum?

        • Smilee

          Yes, the echo is you davie

  • DaveH

    Will the real racists please stand up?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6gOmIalJVw

  • DaveH

    These recent events remind me of taking my kids to the toy store with $5.00 in their hands (28 years ago): “I want this one!”, “no, this one!”, “oh wow, this one for sure!”. These liberals are so excited to take away our freedom that they can barely contain themselves:

    http://blogs.healthfreedomalliance.org/blog/2009/08/30/swine-flu-natural-pandemic-or-man-made-pandemonium/

  • DaveH

    From Ronald Reagon 1961:

    “One of the traditional methods of imposing statism or socialism on a people has been by way of medicine. It’s very easy to disguise a medical program as a humanitarian project. Most people are a little reluctant to oppose anything that suggests medical care for people who possibly can’t afford it.”

    • Foolpatrol

      So, get get the Newsmax BS too? Is Dick Morris still sharing confidential information with hookers and sucking hooker toes?

    • eyeswideopen

      Dave, good old Ronnie used his Medicare right up untill his death. Hypocritical on his part? Probably.

      • Tammy

        Just because you “could” disguise a medical program as a humanitarian project, sometimes a medical program is just a humanitarian project. You could also “disguise” feeding the hungry as a humanitarian project, or educating our children as a humanitarian project, not sure about the word “disguise”, seems like a lot of humanitarian projects that help our people achieve goals like not dying, starving, or remaining stupid and uneducated, are just what they say they are….ways of helping our country stay strong, smart, and healthy!

      • Tammy

        Sorry eyeswideopen, obviously my comment was for DaveH. You, as always, are absolutely right about the hypocracy that prevails on the right. No one seems to mind public schools, maybe they should look into the cost for sending kids to private schools rather than take advantage of the “public option”. I wonder how much we would save in taxes if they weren’t being used to educate their children.

    • Smilee

      I don’t remember this statement from Ronnie but it again shows he was not as sharp as he sounded, he was an actor and made things sound good when they where not and when history finally fully vetts him in about another 30 to 40 hears he will not look like what the conservatives describe him as. Truman was looked at as a jerk for many years after he left office and today with hind site he is revered by most and became known for who he really was, a great man, and the same will happen to Ronnie except he will not be known as the messiah the conservatives revere him as but as mediocre and the destructive nature of his beliefs will fully surface, he is after all the father of the government hatred syndrome we have today and rather than fix government which at the time most agreed it needed he went about dismantling it and destroying good government.

  • John

    Tammy….you mean you don’t get employer paid health insurance for cruising this website all day? Horrors! Just wondering if you liked Hillary’s idea of fining people $1,000 a year for non-compliance in signing up, and if you think we should have to show proof to the IRS.

    • Smilee

      Neither of those requirements will ever be a reality so why ask, sort of a stupid question

      • John

        It’s not stupid at all. Take a look at Massachusetts mandatory health insurance. The fine for non-compliance is 50% of what the health premiums would be, payable on their state income tax return. The liberals in DC want the same thing nationwide. Ask Pelosi or any of them.

        • Smilee

          You were not talking about Mass. in your first post, not totally familiar with the Mass. plan but the editorials I have read are very positive except on the far right sites that never are objective anyhow, I understand the idea is to cover anyone in Mass. In Washington democrats want coverage for everyone and it is still a work in progress and no one and that includes you know what the final product they vote on will be. You conservatives are famous for jumping to conclusions and facts or the truth means little to you. If your against something any lie that demonizes that issue is acceptable and screw the facts or the truth.

          • Mike D

            Truth is this administration has NEVER told the truth about anything.

            No one believes anything out of Wash.to be fact because it is always shrouded in BS. The House Speaker has even said publicly that she wants to see illegals covered under the public option.

            So maybe you should be the one to pay out of your pocket for them.

          • Smilee

            You don’t cite even one thing they lied about, probably do not know of any, You don’t listen very well either, Speaker has not said that and a lot of people do not agree with your assessment of DC, if fact those who believe as you do are becoming less and less, the truth will in time expose the truth and your kind as the phonies you are.

  • John

    You’re the one jumping to conclusions. I’m not a conservative. I’m a moderate independant, beholden to neither party. I’ve heard it said the federal policy is modeled after the Massachusetts policy. Hillary referred to it many times. I have the perfect solution. Make this public option just that…optional. Those who want it (except illegal aliens) can have it, and those that don’t want it can opt out with no penalties. Go after the insurance companies and the drug companies all you want, but leave the taxpayers out of it.

    • Smilee

      John

      All the proposals calling for a public option are proposed as your option and is not mandatory, that is far right conservative rhetoric based on just rhetoric and no fact. What is happening is what you want to happen you just do not seem aware of that. Medicare is mandatory for part A and optional for all other parts and is cheaper that the insurance companies and guess what it is run by the government and some of it is contracted out to the private sector. Blue Cross of ND processes my Medicare for them. So many people do not understand it and thus have some qualms about it and many also talk like they know something about it but don’t an unfortunately they are believed by some.

      • John

        An Associated Press article in today’s newspaper once again refers to MANDATORY health insurance. You don’t want to believe it, but it’s true. They want my money to pay for the health care of people who don’t even take care of themselves, ie 400-pounders waddling around, 40 year old dudes with COPD from their smoking habits, homosexuals with various STDs etc.

        • Smilee

          John says:
          September 7, 2009 at 7:48 pm

          I thought we were talking about the public option, that is not proposed as mandatory, yes it is still on the table to have some type of mandatory insurance but it can be a private option if that is your choice but we do not know if it will be in the bill they vote on. The insurance companies are taking you money now to pay for all you despise, you sound like a bitter man. Smoking is down to about 20% of the population, I agree it causes heath problems but health problems have gone up far more even though smoking has come way down so it seem there is more at play here than just those you mention and more herto people have aids now than gays, so you may have that mixed up as well. You can always find examples true or otherwise if you are motived by hate

  • Jack Kinch(1uncle)

    Ted Kennedy was/is responsible for this mess of so many aliens. Or maybe Mass.

    There should be a limit of 1 or 2 comments per person this site.

    • Smilee

      You one of those who are against free speech???????

  • Benny

    Illegal aliens are exactly what the term “illegal” means. They are in this country illegally and have no rights under our laws. They are criminals and are to be treated as such. Politicians are afraid to support our law enforcement in carrying out the laws of the land because they desire the Spanish speaking community’s vote. If a politician will not stand by the laws already adopted and choose to support illegals just so they can be reelected they are scum of the earth and must be voted out of office and someone who will support the enforcement of our imigration laws and deport these parisites regardless of their tear jerking situation. They are playing upon the kindness of the American People not to deport them when they have kids here or are pregnant. They flock here for those particular reasons and it must stop. Not because I am not compassionate but because I am. I am compassionate toward our own citizens who will be refused assistance in the future because we have given all our funds designed to help our citizens to illegal aliens. “CRIMINALS”. Stop the vast surge of illegals across our borders and find the illegals who have been here, taking jobs from our citizens and sending all the money they make back to their relatives in other countries and restricting the economic growth that money would have afforded our country, especially during such a state of economic crisis we find in our country. Find these illegals, arrest them and deport them back to where they came from. Let’s help our citizens and deport the parisites who drain our welfare systems and our taxpayers. We owe them nothing! It’s time our elected officials do something to remedy this problem or it’s time to vote them out and vote in someone who will do what must be done. Stop supporting illegal aliens. And if you want to break this country financially, give amnesty to the illegals who have been here, taking jobs from our citizens and draining our finances by showing up with their children at the emergency rooms and causing our taxpayers to be burdened with their unpaid bill, and thereby thumbing their noses at our laws and defying us to do something about it. It’s time our elected representatives do their jobs rather than trying to drum up votes at the taxpayers expense.

    • John

      Well said, my good man, well said! Perhaps you should seek public office!

  • Smilee

    John says:
    September 7, 2009 at 7:48 pm

    I thought we were talking about the public option, that is not proposed as mandatory, yes it is still on the table to have some type of mandatory insurance but it can be a private option if that is your choice but we do not know if it will be in the bill they vote on. The insurance companies are taking you money now to pay for all you despise, you sound like a bitter man. Smoking is down to about 20% of the population, I agree it causes heath problems but health problems have gone up far more even though smoking has come way down so it seem there is more at play here than just those you mention and more herto people have aids now than gays, so you may have that mixed up as well. You can always find examples true or otherwise if you are motived by hate

    • John

      The insurance companies are not taking a dime from me. My employer pays for my health insurance. Yes I am bitter about these parasitical illegal aliens. I live next door to a mexican guy who was alright at first. But when the recession hit, he started moving more and more of these illegal scum into the house, sometimes 12-15 adults staying in a 3-BR house at night, living in crowded, squalid conditions. They usually have 7-10 junk cars and old rusty pickups piled up all over the place everynight and leaving said pieces of junk parked in front of my house continuously for up to a month at a time. I’ve called the cops on them 5 times in the last year, but they are too stupid to learn their lesson. I don’t want my tax dollars going to support them in anyway. My dog is smarter than they are. Now wipe that smile off your face!

      • Smilee

        First that is a part of your income from your company,if they didn’t pay for it then you would have to or go without but in your case the insurance company gets the premium money weather you pay it or they pay it. What happens if you loose your job, Companies move, close and yes even fire for no reason unless you are Union but not even that will help if they move. I’m not smiling, I do not do that at sad sacks like you, I find you pathetic and I also have to wonder if your dog is also smarter than you, I’m sure he at least more pleasant. Bitterness and hatred can destroy a person or at least prevent them from thinking straight.

        • John

          I suppose there’s no hatred at all coming from the far left. Ohhh, they’re such loving, kind people. I could have gone either way during the last election, but due to the extreme hatred flung my way from liberal lunatics at work, I voted republican. This co-worker used to leave his printouts from the LA Times on my desk while I was at lunch, usually something on the order of “slutty Sarah”. Instead of helping the rest of us with the workload, he can’t get his mind off of politics, cruising the web of all his favorite left-wing sites, and then thinking when I come back from lunch, I won’t work either, I’ll just read his propaganda, and then boom! just like that I’ll convert to his way of thinking. All he did was turn me off. Happy to say, he was eventually fired and lost his health insurance. Kinda funny, he had a good paying job under Bush administration and a ruined reputation under Obama’s.

          • Smilee

            You really are one miserable person, I was active in the republican party almost the first 50 years of my life and left it when the conservatives took over a lot of the control because they where such hateful people and then for 10 years I was not active and then I got active in the democratic party and with rare exception these are a happy bunch for the most part and truly care about others and not at all what the conservatives want you to believe about us and I doubt few really care to know much about us. You see people who are as self centered as the conservative movement is today only care about themselves and that is my opinion is why most of them are so miserable and I suspect that is your problem as well and really has nothing to do with the far left, look inside yourself.

  • Sue

    My father broke his hip in Mexico and received the best of care. Nobody ever asked him if he could afford to pay for it or if he was there legally. They did what needed to be done to help someone at the moment and did it with pride.
    Americans could take a lesson in compassion from those people.

  • John

    Oh gee, I didn’t know the liberals are such happy people! Take a look at your secretary of state, the Hildebeast. She’s made a career out of character assassination. All you have to do is blame the republicans for everything, smear people who get in your way, have the IRS investigate innocent people in your travel office, and make up lies about dodging bullets in Kosovo. I’m sure Bubba won’t mind if you want to just cozy on up to her. But I digress…back to the illegals you’re so fond of….at least I perform a valuable service for my community. All these bums do is hang out in front of Home Depot all day, hoping someone will pay them $25 to help plant a tree. And you want to give them free medical care at the taxpayers expense??

    • Smilee

      Go have a drink, calm down and then go see your shrink and see if you can get in touch with reality, your are absurd.

      • John

        Hey Smileeboy,

        Did you read Benny’s comments above? Spot on, I’d say!

        • Smilee

          We are a happy bunch as I said before you only think you know us but are really in the dark on this and most things you have talked about on here. My exchange with you has been mostly health care I have not commented on illegals and this is what benny was talking about and now you are, being I have not talked about them why do you assume I’m fond of them if I have not talked about them, look at your last post your all over the page and way off the topic we were discussing, I guess you did not take my advice and see your shrink if you had maybe you would be able focus and make some sense.

  • John

    Yes I am all over the page. Never before has our country, our liberty, and our freedoms been under attack on so many fronts from the liberal lunatics in congress. But if you think I’m unhappy and miserable, you’re wrong! I am greatly enjoying these democrats self-destruct. First out the door was their so-called “Employee Free Choice Act” (EFCA); even Sen. Feinstein off all people said she will vote against it. And then BO says immigration reform is off the table this year. Good! By next year some of these idiots in congress may be voted out and their filibuster-proof majority gone with them! And the red-dog democrats in Arkansas will not sign on to this health care fiasco either. I watched Barack Hussein Obama’s speech last night and he even admitted that healthy people who choose not to buy insurance will be fined. That senator from Montana says the fine could be $3,800 for a family of four. I don’t know how anyone can think it’s fair that I have to show documentation (proof of insurance) to the IRS but these illegal aliens will not have to show proof of citizenship when they arrive in our ERs. I almost vomited when BO gave Hilary Pantsuit a kiss after his speech.

  • Smilee

    Oh John, go out and have a couple of drinks and calm down a bit, your freedoms are not in any real danger except in you mind and when you are this angry it cannot function to well, so do yourself a favor and go have those drinks and then things will look better for you. Not likely the republicans will gain control in 10 and split as they are they could even lose more but that has more to do with self destruction than the democrats beating them and they should win some if history repeats itself but many think because the republicans are is such disarray this will not happen and they are really have serious problems today

    • John

      I can hardly wait till the 2010 elections. I will have the distinct honor of voting the Senate Majority leader out. He’s not a very popular guy here. Just as I previously had the honor of helping toss Gray Davis out as governor of the People’s Republic of California, despite pleas from my union, who spent $500 million to keep their union butt-kisser in. Oh yeah, now I’ll have the drinks you promised, Smileeman. Maybe I could ask the illegals next door if they can spare a Corona, or better yet,a Dos Equiis. Oops, I forgot, they No Habla Englis.

      • Smilee

        Only have a couple John, do not want to see you get drunk, your posts here are bad enough when you are sober and do not want to see them get worse if you write any when you are drunk.

        • John

          YOU LIE! Go back and read your very first reply to a post of mine on 9/05/09. I was referring to an element of this health care proposal which calls for financial penalties for non-compliance and for showing proof of insurance to the IRS when you file your taxes. You claimed “neither of those would happen”. If you missed Barack Hussein Obama’s speech to congress, it’s on YouTube. (I keep a folder of famous political speeches there). Straight from the Man’s mouth. If I want to retire early before medicare kicks in it will be mandatory I sign up. I’ll tell you what though…reaching accross the aisle….starting tomorrow for one whole week….I’m only going to say kind things about people and in person I’m going to be charitable towards all my fellow human beings. I’ll let you know how my progress goes. But as for now….YOU LIE!

          • Smilee

            The senate added this possibility since I wrote about it and also after you wrote about it and Obama said on wed night he would be Ok with it and it is still not a done deal, you made that statement before is was a possibility so you lied, when you said it, it had not been put on the table, and it was not on the table when I said it was not no I didn’t lie you did. See how you twist the truth.

  • John

    Ahh it’s a beautiful day here in America as tens of 1000′s of Americans descended upon Washington yesterday to preserve our American way of life. Today I would like to share 3 of my favorite presidential speeches from YouTube.

    #3-Bill Clinton:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiIP_KDQmXs&feature=PlayList&p=AB6B917037071371

    #2- Dick Nixon:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhQD2UFCIbY&feature=PlayList&p=AB6B917037071371

    #1- Franklin D Roosevelt:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VqQAf74fsE&feature=PlayList&p=AB6B917037071371

    Just copy and paste into your browser. The last one, FDR, is especially dear to me as my father worked at Pearl Harbor, and I was born just a couple of miles from where the attacks occured in Honolulu. These video clips are for historical reference only.

    • Smilee

      Glad your to happy about it but it will not change a thing it is still to small an effort nothing like the civil rights movement and that is the kind of protests it takes to make the change you want, but enjoy the moment.

  • John

    Continuing my week of being NICE to my fellow human beings….
    There was a homeless guy at the freeway offramp with a sign that said “Anything Will Help”. I offered him a penny….and he got mad!
    I wonder if he’s considered getting a job instead of standing there everyday. Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach him how to fish, feed him for life.

  • John

    Ahh, another beautiful day in America, as more and more revelations about the corrupt ACORN organization come to light. Now we find they are subsidizing underage prostitutes with our tax dollars. As if when they registered the entire Dallas Cowboys football team in the state of Nevada wasn’t bad enough. The US Census bureau has already severed ties with ACORN. It’s only a matter of time, my friends, before they are shut down completely. I doubt very much Obama bin Lyin would have won without them.

  • http://www.stanelaine.com Stan

    I would like to offer some comments from the perspective of someone who CO-OPERATED with the I.N.S. which is now The Dept. of Homeland Security. As a ‘guest’ I respected the rules of my ‘host’ country. I am grateful to be living in the greatest country in the world. After several years of waiting, application procedures, questions, bio & fingerprinting and several hundred dollars in processing fees, I finally became a naturalized US citizen. I followed the rules,
    exercised patience and it paid off. I now have duel citizenship which is nice when travelling to & from the UK. My point is that I did it without breaking the law,or without sneaking accross the border.I did it because it is WRONG to expect to live off hard working Americans! Illegal immigrants do not care at all about the welfare of this country, or who is president, why should we expect them to? ..and now…. I have to pay my own medical bills and theirs too! There is something very wrong with this picture. What does anyone not understand about ILLEGAL?
    As for the borders….., well, that is another issue that required further investigation. Needless to say, the results of my findings, as you may have guessed, were both interesting and disappointing. Which is another whole issue for another day. I have met so many good, hard working Americans who have lived here all their lives, some have fought for liberty and the pursuit of happiness, and sadly, they know so very little about their own Country. The American people have shown over and over again that they are good hearted people, and it sickens me that Obama is trashing them before the world! Would anyone like to opine as to why?

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