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Court dismisses anti-gun lawsuit

May 14, 2009 by  

Court dismisses anti-gun lawsuitThe U.S. Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals has dismissed a lawsuit against Glock, a weapons manufacturer, brought by the victims of a California gunman.

The development was welcomed by the Second Amendment Foundation (SAF) which pointed out the federal law prohibits this kind of lawsuit.

The decision upheld a lower court’s ruling that nullified the case Ileto v. Glock under the 2005 Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act (PLCAA) which was passed to prevent frivolous lawsuits against gun makers.

"We are delighted that the Ninth Circuit panel affirmed the lower court ruling," says SAF founder Alan Gottlieb.

"While we sympathize with the victims, it would be an egregious miscarriage of justice to hold gun manufacturers responsible for the acts of criminals over whom they have no control," he added.

In August 1999, a gunman opened fire at a Jewish Community Center summer camp in Granada Hills wounding five people and later killing one person using a Glock pistol.

Families of the victims sued the manufacturer in 2001 claiming that gun companies "intentionally produce, market, distribute and sell more firearms than the legitimate market demands," according to SAF.

"Holding gun makers responsible for crime is a false panacea. Congress saw this when it passed the PLCAA, and now the court has affirmed that logic," Gottlieb commented.

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  • s c

    I am pleasantly amazed that there are enough level-headed people on that court to render an unemotional, just opinion. Imagine what would happen if our ‘leaders’ tried to remove all vehicles from America’s roads because people die in vehicle collisions. That would amount to surrendering to abolute stupidity because it “feels” right. We might as
    well put every food manufacturer out of business because people die from eating inferior quality food(s). Then, put every drug firm out of business because MDs find ways to overdose their patients. No wonder life is complicated, and common sense is so hard to find.

    • JM Thomas

      Don’t worry! They are working on all of the above removals of our rights to live.

      Don’t let your kids climb a tree either without seat belts and crash helments! They might fall!

  • jorgaone

    Let’s take the arguments a bit further: let’s just sue the silverware manufacturers because so many people use them to overeat! Let’s sue pencil and pen manufacturers because words are written that aren’t well taken, or were hurtful; or (horror of horror) hate-filled!
    This suit was ludicrous–and luckily was treated as such. How in the world is a local judge supposed to figure out that a WORLD wide gun manufacturer was producing too many over what was needed?
    How the heck did they find an attorney that would even consider representing them? Sounds like the attorney was a shiester…
    I would hope that this refreshingly common-sense attitude would be applied to many other suits too…

    • Cathy

      Agreed…the fork is the most dangerous weapon in the world. Fat, obese, slobs everywhere. How can you stand yourselves?

      I’m on HCG diet right now. Need to lose 17 more pound, although only 13 would get me to my high school graduation weight in 1965!

    • Caleb Becker (CA)

      Wow!! I really wish that everyone had the simple and common sense that you guys have. First of all, suing a gun company for a situation like this is absolutely outrageous it's like someone blaming their doctor for a computer malfunction during a surgery. Secondly, if for some reason the lawsuit went through and the gun company goes out of business; what is the point of all that? What has been accomplished? All that would have been accomplished would be:

      making people needlessly lose their jobs
      gaining huge amounts of money due to selfish intents interests
      and all that the murderer would have to do is to go to a different gun company to choose a weapon

      Thirdly, even if all guns were outlawed in the U.S.; the only people with guns would be the bad guys, (terrorists) In which they could carry out any “evil deed” without fear of any retaliation from the people. Also if all firearms were prohibited, U.S. citizens would be deprived of their second amendment rights, and that is not something that any president should have as a temptation: to take over the country for his own.

  • Robin from Indiana

    It was certainly refreshing to see common sense prevail! Guns don’t kill people, people kill people! Our politically correct society makes their rules as they go along. If the laws that are on the books already were just followed to begin with, we would have a whole lot less issues than we do!

    • SSG Prasuhn

      Problem is, Robin from Indiana, ‘those’ that break the laws look at it this way…’The law(s) apply only to you, not me.’

      People tend to believe that it is a ‘Me First!’ world and that the world revolves around them. Not sure what science classes they went to, but THAT’s NOT the case…the world does NOT revolve around them. Never has and never will.

      The ‘ID 10 Ts’ who ‘push’ these types of suits do so mostly as a means of ‘making a quick buck’ (especially the lawyers that ‘persue’ such cases – they’re the biggest ‘ID 10 Ts’).

      What’s an ‘ID 10 T’, you ask? In ‘layman’s’ terms it’s….’IDIOT’ (A, so called ‘humanoid’ with NO ‘common’ SENSE).

      By the way, how are things in Hoosier Land? I’m from Ft. Wayne originally, by way of Muncie. Now in the great Northwest.

  • Daryl

    I agree with you other level headed individuals. Not only was the lawsuit frivolous, but it’s astounding to find that a judge didn’t agree with the “feels right” opinion to blame the gun manufacturer. And the point their lawyer tried to raise about purposely making more guns than the market needs…where’d they even come up with that idea? If the market wouldn’t bear them, they wouldn’t be able to sell them. Kudos to this judge!

  • Richard

    We may be surprised that the ninth circuit court has made a ruling that seems to affirm our right to keep and bear arms but I have learned to be much more cynical than to trust our progressive/communist government. This is not the front where they intend to attack our 2nd amendment rights.

    We must watch everything our would be oppressors do as if we are playing a chess game. Our opponent is willing to sacrifice a few pawns, a rook, or a bishop if it means checkmate for them later.

    In the mind of progressives, the goal of absolute enslavement of the citizens of this once great nation is as pure as the quest for the Holy Grail or the Golden Fleece.

  • Magnon

    Wow! Congrats to Robin from Indiana. She got to the crux of the matter and hit the nail on the head with her observation regarding who does the crime. The sad thing about the entire story is that it points out just how pathetic people have become in our society when they lose all common sense and sue just for the sake of trying to get something for nothing. Frankly, I believe that idiots that bring a frivolous lawsuit that goes against all common sense should, as plaintiffs, be prosecuted for stupidity, fined, jailed, and labeled as a village idiot for life. Of course our society would never allow such a thing because we prefer to mollycoddle the less intelligent of our citizens.

    • Wapitiman

      Wouldn’t our society be better off if the losers of lawsuits would be responsible for all court costs and their lawyers would not get paid? I guarantee you that the frivolous lawsuits would drop dramatically. (But of course, this idea would never even get to first base in America…land of the free.)

      • Diana

        Not when dealing with the state or city school boards. In our state if we lose a court case with the school district we have to pay all court cost.

  • barterman

    the problem today is the mentality that nobody is responsible for the things that they do.the person that shoots someone is the responsible party,not the gun maker.the person that over eats and gets obese is responsible,not the fast food restaurants.the people that jump off of a bridge are responsible for their deaths,not the people who build the bridges.the attitude that little johnny isn’t responsible for the death of the 15 people that he killed because his mother didn’t give him cherry kool-aid when he was 12 has to stop.the only thing that government has ever been successful at doing is growing government.if you have doubts,think about amtrak,usps,medicaid,medicare,fannie mae,freddie mac and lets not forget about the biggest fiasco of them all,social security.kudos to the court for saying that the individual is the responsible party and nobody else.

  • Gary

    Did you know that the biggest crime committed today against the Constitution and the inalienable rights of the people of the United States of America: Is from our government’s violation of The Oath of Office?) An oath of office is an oath or affirmation a person takes before undertaking the duties of an office, usually a position in government. Such oaths are often required by the laws of the state, before the person may actually exercise the powers of the office they have been elected, or appointed.

    My name is Gary De Capua and founder of the Civil Rights Task Force in Nevada. It is a fact that little is known about the Office of Public Trust: The Oath of Office. On my web site it explains the relevant issues of why it is needed to make the Oath of Office a relevant issue. The Constitution requirement of Article 6; Section 3 is inherently Supreme in nature which makes it a very powerful tool. Operation Link Up and why it is very important that we link up all patriot groups and concern citizens to inform them that when our elected officials take the Oath of Office, they have sworn to and are bound to protect and defend the Constitution, they have attested their names to that very “Oath” and that it is their first line of duty, to protect and defend the Bill of Rights.

    OPERATION LINK-UP: and the mission behind it.

    The enemy within government is more of a threat than any terrorist organization or
    Foreign nation. Treason is as subtle as public officials refusing to support and defend the Constitution and the Bill of Rights by violating the contract, by which all government officials, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation.
    Our mission is simple; we must stand together as concerned citizens on a Constitutional requirement, willing to defend those inalienable and Natural rights which are guaranteed by the Constitution, to hold all federal, state officers, city and county officers that swear to an oath of office and bound to support and defend the Constitution of the United States and their State Constitution and the laws, accountable for malfeasance or overstepping their limited powers not granted. Liberty: The final boundary, these are the journeys of the Bill of Rights Task Force. Its mission, to explore misconstruction or abuse of powers, to seek out new interest and new inhabitants, to boldly go where no decree has gone before.
    Our country is heading in the wrong direction. Our Bill of Rights is being violated in serious ways and there is a lack of concern by “Contemporary Citizen”. In fact a majority of Americans (including Christians and conservatives) seem oblivious to this relevant issue. Is it because they care not to understand the pertinent issues on the Oath of Office? Or is it because most Americans are totally unaware of this Constitutional requirement? Or have we become A NATION OF SHEEP. Or is it because we have intentionally dumbed down our schools, ignored our history, and no longer teach our founding documents, why we are exceptional, and why we are worth preserving? Students by and large cannot write, think critically, read, or articulate. Parents are not revolting, teachers are not picketing, and school boards continue to back mediocrity. Why? Our foundational freedoms are taken for granted, abused, trampled, and disregarded on a daily basis by government officials that will violate the Constitutional requirement; the Oath of Office.

    Our Constitution is not being enforced or upheld by those who have sworn and are BOUND to uphold it while in the office of public trust. We need to take back control from rogue government officials who are abusing their delegated powers to re-interpret this hallowed “Supreme Law of the Land” and with cooperating help from rogue courts. Recent alarming events include the Lautenberg gun ban, the new Patriot Act, many Federal Income Tax laws, just to mention a few. When first enacted, the Constitution was a milestone in the history of mankind ~ even though many founding fathers realized that
    Amendments would be required.

    The first ten such amendments have become known as our Bill of Rights. Their primary significance is that they guarantee the continuing existence of our basic American liberties for all generations ~ not to be violated and defied by government officials. They were enacted on January 18, 1790 in this context:
    “And be it further enacted, that in as much as the Constitution of the United States and the organic act of said territory has secured to the inhabitants there of certain inalienable rights, of which they can not be deprived by any legislative enactment …”

    An American public servant who trespasses outside the bounds of his/her Oath of Office is being disloyal toward their country.

    See 2nd Amendment issues at

  • Jim Sr.

    It all goes back to Adam & Eve when she blamed the serpent for enticing her to eat the apple. As they left the Garden of Eden God said they would have to work “by the sweat of their brow” to survive. Ever since then we have been trying to reverse that condemnation by trying to get someone else to pay our way. After all, “It’s not my fault!” is the most repeated line today when someone is confronted with their own stupidity. It will be so until the end of time.

    The same arguement is used to justify the deaths of 50 million in our abortion clinics or the last 35 years. Everyone wants the fun but not the results that naturally follow.

    Scripture says there are 4 sins that cry to heaven for vengence. They are willful murder, sodomy, expoliting the poor, and defrauding the worker of a just wage. We do all 4 with glee in the USA;

    50 Million dead by surgical abortion and untold others by chemicals like birth control pills and the “morninig after pill” like Plan B.
    sodomy- is a misuse of our sexual powers. They are there to bring forth the next generation as planned in scripture. The logical consequences of this life style is the snuffing out of the human race over time. We need to minister to these people to help them be released from this slavery.
    & 4. We exploit the poor and defraud the worker of their just wages with the millions of Mexican illegals that are kept poor at slave wages with the possibility of being turned it to the Government if they protest.

    We are replaying the ways many nations have fallen before us. Get ready for the consentration camps.

    • kimberly

      When are you religious zealots ever going to see that human beings wrote all the
      “scripture?” What goes on between a woman and her doctor is her business not yours. Tell me, if Ted Bundy or Jeffrey Dalmars mom had known what their children would grow up to be, would abortion be all right with you under those circumstances? Or, would it be all right to kill them after they grew up and became extremely twisted. It’s all in the timing isn’t it? Leave women and their bodies alone.
      Better yet, if men could not have sex, or fool around in other ways because the only way it would be legal is if a pregnancy occurred, how would you like it? Couldn’t go near a woman or hand because it would be illegal to have fun unless a child was
      produced. I doubt if even the religious element would like that one. Especially since we know just how faithful the preachers/priest/rabbis, etc. are.

  • bert

    To bear arms is an amendment right. Thus one must buy. So the seller is just a party to the exerciser of this right. Knives can be used to kill. So by the logic of the suer, the co. that sold said knives are guilty. We should adopt the British? law: whoever loses the lawsuit pays ALL the costs, including those of the plaintiff. One disturbing thought–why did the matter have to go all the way to the ninth circuit court? It should have been resolved @ the very lowest judicial level.

  • David F

    I can’t believe that the 9th “Circus” Court of Appeals rendered a decision that makes sense!!!!!

  • http://none Ross

    Finally, someone actually used the “T” word (treason). A lot of us have been thinking it. The attack contemplated and in progress on the constitution, and the attack on the nation’s economy being carried out by the ultra-liberal executive branch, and the liberal elements of the legislative branch will, in the long term, be more devastating than the Dec. 7, 1941 attack on Pearl Harbor. Treason is exactly the right word.

    • Norm

      Bush was president when the economy tanked. Bush was president when his treasury secretary put up the 750 billion tarp cash. Bush urged congress to ok tarp. Bush was president when the goverment allowed the banks and insurance cos. to be unregulated enabling them to almost destroy the country. Bush’s tax cuts, at a time of war, created the largest deficits in history.
      That bastard Obama.

      • kimberly

        Yeah for you. However, I don’t know if half the people on this site get your sarcasm. But it was great. That’s probable why you didn’t get any replies.
        I on the other hand have gotten nothing but hate mail and I love it.
        Kuddos to you.

    • SSG Prasuhn


      And if everyone will notice, TREASON seems to be the ‘way of life’ amongst our ‘so-called’ Congressional and State Representatives. I’d venture to guess that not even five minutes after taking their ‘oaths of office’, they (all) forgot every word of ‘that’ oath and went on their merry way to gain what is ‘theirs’ (NOT ours). After all, they’re ‘In’ now. What do they care what they told us to ‘get there’?? They’re going to do what they want whether we like it or not.

      Our only ‘out’ is to ‘GET THEM OUT’. Question is, how do we do that? Voting them ‘out’ doesn’t seem to be working very well. And ‘Tea Parties’ don’t seem to be going over too well in a ‘coffee drinking society’. The only ‘option’ seems to be ‘Revolution’ (1776 style). We succeeded once, I believe we can do it again!

      ‘Nuff Said’,

      • kimberly

        Boo Hoo, nuff said.

  • Sedg

    Get past the Democrat vs Republican attacks and concentrate on the liberties being taken away by ALL facets of the Federal Government. Those of you that are serious about changing the course of action should support people who live by the conservative ideals you desire. Change through the ballot box should be attempted before revolution. What has happened in the past has happened, We can only look to the future and act on changing the course of history each and every day.

    • Used to be a liberal

      Believe it or not, but this is what you get, and can expect from elite socialists, they know better then you,they are your rulers, not your representatives. Their attitude is do as I say, not as I do. They as your rulers consider themselves above rules, regulations, and laws, because in a warped/twisted way they believe that you owe them for looking after/taking care of you.Look at history,in every socialist environment this “stuff” happens, more so then in any other type of government

      • kimberly

        Now Liberals are Socialist? Define socialization. Socialized medicine perhaps.
        It seems to work in Europe, but use the word socialize here and everyone wants to run to the hills. Unless you can come up with a better way then Democracy, why don’t you continue to live in the past and forget progress. Fear is a stupid thing to try and circulate. Get real, are you perhaps a neo-Nazi? Cause that’s what you sound like.

        • Used to be a liberal

          Kimberly, are you just simply so brainwashed into a sense that you must portray what is commonly know as false compassion. Do you need so desperately to feel good about yourself by heaping a load of self-loathing guilt onto yourself.

          Kimberly I suggest you do some research into the roots of socialism, in fact I dare you to. I also suggest you take a look at history, then get your facts straight. You could not be more incorrect by referring to conservatives or libertarians as Nazis. The truth about the Nazi movement in Germany under Hitler was that they were a left wing socialist party, The National Democratic Socialist Party of Germany. Apart from the “evil” that Hitler and his cohorts conducted eg, the War itself, and the extermination camps, you will find if you bother to look, and even take the time to read his book “Mien Kempf” that the similarities between his programs, and what has been happening both in Europe, and in North America since about 1955, are all too similar, however more so now then ever. You may even find, should you bother to take the time that we have all been scammed. We have had one government with two heads since Bush 1, Clinton, then Bush 2, and now Obama. Look closely, take off the blinders, if you believe that “liberal” means freedom, self determination, and personal responsibility, and the right to be you, then think again, that is not what Liberal means, not since the turn of the century.

          There is a fine line between Socialism, Marxist socialism, fascism, and communism. Lenin, Stalin, Mussolini, Hitler. Then too there were out right dictators.

          Kimberly, maybe before you start calling people names, you might want to learn first about calling the kettle black.

          Kimberly, do the research. I dare you. I am not going to provide you with any links, simply because you will then accuse me of being biased. It won’t take much to look up the information, all you need to do is simply type a name word, or phrase into your search window.

          By the way if your going to support something or not support something, it is best to know the reason why, rather then just blindly following what other people, including news media tell you.

  • http://none Ross

    Yep! Bush succumbed to the machinations of the liberal controlled legislature during the last two disastrous years of his presidency. People seem all too willing to forget that it is only the house of representatives that can originate a federal budget. Anyway, Bush is gone now, and he’s not the one promising to quadruple the national debt during the next ten years. He is also not the one seeking to circumvent supreme court validated provisions of the constitution the president swears to “. . .preserve, protect and defend.” Unfortunately, Sedg is correct to some extent. It has little to do with Dems and Repubs. We need to throw all the rascals out.

    • SSG Prasuhn

      Ross…You’re too kind. I wouldn’t put ‘them’ (Dems & Reps) in the same category as ‘rascals’. They’re WORSE than that, but I can’t say it here. Might offend someone’s eyes.

  • kimberly

    I’ll be glad when guns are done away with forever. The Constitution has been amended
    over and over again. And please don’t start with “people kill people, not guns.” That’s the most ridiculous saying I’ve ever heard. Right up there with the late actor CH, “They can pry my gun from my cold, dead, hands. Oh well, it looks like he didn’t go out that way. He went out the way most Republicans go. A terrible disease, true, but it does seem to hit the Republicans, like another actor the country was stupid enough to elect back in the “80s. Actors for Governors, and Presidents, actors. What’s wrong with this my Country? Perhaps this President will take a stand against the NRA, one can only hope. Keep making the gun sellers rich, keep having children killing children, keep lunatics able to buy guns and then kill in mass numbers.
    Yea, I’m a Liberal and damn proud of it. How many people in the world have died from guns? Too many. Like the soldier that turned his gun on his fellow soldiers and
    shot them dead. Grow up America and face facts. Guns kill people, period.

    • SSG Prasuhn

      And what pray tell do YOU have to ‘guarantee’ that you won’t lose any of your rights as ‘provided’ and guaranteed under The Constitution and the Bill of Rights? You going to ‘talk’ your way out of a ‘life-threatening’ situation where the ‘other party’ has whatever weapon to do you in with and all you have is your BIG MOUTH??

      Get a life!!! Liberals are the ‘root’ of all of our current and perceived problems to start with!

      ‘Nuff Said’,

      • kimberly

        Let’s see, talk my way out of a “life threatening” situation. I have. And walked away without a scratch. Your talking about extremes, which extremist always do.
        Liberals are the reason the country is in a mess, where have you been the last 8 years. The idiot Bush and his crazy cronies are the reason. I’m not saying that the Democrats are great by any means, their politicians, but until something better comes up, this is what we do in my country, we try and make it better. Not by selling guns to any lunatic out there. So your perceived problems are just that,
        perceived, meaning not actually problems. Get it together, or leave it alone. Your just not in your right mind. Right up to date has been so wrong.

    • Richard

      Clearly, you simply do not understand the purpose of guns in the hands of the public. Guns are to protect us from the government. More people are killed by automobiles than guns. Why aren’t you whining about those awful cars instead?

      • kimberly

        I don’t Whine over cars because people don’t get into their cars to kill people.
        What government are guns protecting us against? North Korea? What the hell are you talking about? Protecting us against our own government? Maybe if it were still the Bush League I’d agree with you. But it isn’t, thank the people of
        America, we finally woke up. By the way, my son has guns in his house. I don’t like it, the reason, he has three children and that’s what I’m afraid of. Are you going to honestly disagree that children kill children with guns, that lunatics can walk into a gun shop and lie and buy a weapon then go on a shooting spree?
        What country do you live in? Your dreams perhaps. It seems your the one that doesn’t understand what guns mean. So why don’t you go climb a mountain, stock up on guns and wait for the government to come get you.

        • Richard

          Yes, and now that we have a hard core communist president we need the right to bear arms more than we have since FDR, Johnson, Bill Clinton, or Jimmy Carter.

          Freedom is a gift from God. The communist/progressive/democrat party in concert with the Republicans who feign opposition have been working to rape us of that gift since the turn of the 20th century.

          Read the writings of those brilliant Christian men who wrote our founding documents. And no, they were NOT deists. That’s yet another lie from the mouths of America hating liberals. Without the God given right to defend ourselves against tyranny we will soon be living in the new soviet union. I was not born in a communist country and, by the grace of God, I will not die in one.

          No matter what name they give it – socialism, liberalism, Marxism, or communism – the outcome is the same – tyranny. Stalin was popular just like Obama. Many of the people he sent to die a slow death in work camps cried when Stalin died. That’s how sick liberalism is.

          You may say Obama isn’t going to send those who oppose him to prison camps. I never thought I would see the day when a sitting president would nationalize (that’s communism) huge chunks of the private sector. Please tell me why he is still in power. Those are the actions of a dictator.

          I see you have been brainwashed to hate George Bush. No doubt for the same things Obama is keeping in place as president. But the media who called George Bush “Hitler” will praise Obama for the same policies.

          For fifty years the so called news media has been the propaganda arm of the communist/democrat party. Thankfully, Ronald Reagan killed the fairness doctrine so that now we at least have the truth on talk radio until Obama’s communist regime finds a way to quash it.

          Liberals/communists can belittle me for saying this, but I mean it will every drop of blood that runs through my freedom loving body. “They will get my gun when they pry it from my cold dead fingers.”

          God Bless America!

  • Charlie

    “How many people have died from guns?” How many have died from CARS and TRUCKS? I have several guns. Most are in my living room, loaded. So far, not one of those guns has gone out and shot anyone. I really don’t get the “guns kill people” idea. But then again maybe Kimberly is right – people don’t kill people – guns do!!??! And, so do OTC drugs (that’s Over The Counter, Kimberly), and knives, and baseball bats, and cars and trucks ( actually there are more poeple killed on our nation’s highways than there are killed by guns every year). Hey, maybe we should outlaw the OIL industry! After all it is the gasoline in the KILLER cars fault not the driver.
    MY countrys Constitution has 10 Amendments known as The Bill Of Rights which, in part, states “…..certain INALEINABLE RIGHTS of which they (meaning the people) cannot be deprived by ANY legislative enactment…”
    And those 10 amendments give you and me the right to voice our opinion and gives you and me the right to “…bear arms….” And I CANNOT BE DEPRIVED BY ANY LEGISLATIVE ENACTMENT.
    Take my killer car for I am more likely to kill someone with it than with any of my guns.

    • kimberly

      Wow, it’s really easy to get all you extremist going. Again, people don’t get into their cars to kill people. But there are many, as it is so obviously clear here, that the folks that buy guns do so because of “perceived” threats from the government coming and taking you all away. That way you can shoot it out with our government.
      Grow up. The Constitution has been amended so many times it can make one’s head swim. What’s the matter, your not men if you don’t have your guns to prove you are? And to the women who think that guns are so great, have you lost anyone to a gun fight? Doubt it. You don’t have to kill living things to prove your a bad ass.
      Your just following what men have forced down the female sexes throats. Keep following a mans lead and it will get you harmed in more ways than one. You guys are hysterical. I’m laughing so hard, I can hardly type. Get over yourselves, you take owning guns way too seriously. Guns protect us from the government.
      What crap. Again climb a mountain, stock up on weapons and wait for the good guys to come and take your little weapons away. Pry that.

      • Richard

        Since when is the US Constitution an extremist document, kimberly? The extremists are those like YOU who would attempt to take my right to keep and bear arms away.

        Above all other rights, the second amendment is most important. For it is the second amendment that assures we have the means to defend the rest.

      • SSG Prasuhn

        Kimberly — Are you (absolutely) sure people don’t get into their cars to kill someone?? What about the (felony) charge of ADW-Vehicular (Assault With a Deadly Weapon – Vehicle)???

        You’re WRONG again (So what else is new?)!!! Not all people who buy guns do so just so they can go out and kill someone because of some perceived notion or idea. There are laws (already in place — we DON’T need more) that the gun dealers follow diligently to keep ‘unauthorized’ persons from purchasing a gun (of any kind — rifle, pistol, shotgun, even a BB-Gun). If the report (background check) comes back ‘clear’, then that individual is ‘authorized’ to purchase a weapon. Now, whether the information used to obtain that report is ‘bogus’ then that’s NOT the fault of the gun dealer. It’d be the same as your trying to bake some (what you thing to be) really nice cookies — or a cake — using a recipe that someone gave you (and that you hadn’t tried before) and everything turned out tasting like you know what.

        And, for the record, it’s been proven time and time again that those ‘opposed’ to guns don’t know anything about them (other than what they’ve been told by other anti-gunners — namely the media; what a bunch of losers!). Then too, they more than likely feel the same way about hammers, knives, ball bats, lug wrenches, tire irons, fireplace pokers, clubs, golf clubs (drivers are really nice!), etc. Oh! And what about a ballpoint pen? Do you know that you can be killed with one of those? Or a pencil? How about a letter opener? Want to BAN all of those too??

        Guns are a TOOL. How the ‘user’ used that tool is a different story. So, as with anything of this nature, it should be the ‘user’ that is punished, NOT the ‘tool maker’.

        ‘Nuff Said’,

        • kimberly

          Are you the one that sent an automated reply? Yes idiots get into cars to harm/kill people, the same lunatics that buy guns to do the same. By the way gun dealers will sell to anyone. A little lying, false ID and dealers will sell to anyone to make money, so don’t tell that ridiculous lie. I know this from personal experience. Make money no matter what, the American Way. Every country needs improvement, including ours. No good comes from guns. Death and destruction is the only answer. If any of you take a good look inside yourselves and ask if there is a good reason for owning a weapon and answer yes, your lying to yourselves. ‘Nuff said!

  • 2004done

    Kimberly: Since your diatribe seems to be typical HCI (Brady bunch) – blaming pieces of steel for the actions of wackos, you want bumper sticker sayings?
    “Ted Kennedy’s car has killed more people than all my guns,” but he also never said that the car did it, he just said he tried his best to save her, and then drank after he couldn’t. Cancer or not, Ted has been one of the staunch supporters of anti-gun legislation. Is it because of the murder of his brother, President JFK? It was already illegal to kill anyone, let alone our president and I don’t believe any law would have prevented it. I am amazed that all the anti-gun legislation is passed, considering how almost all the campaigns minimize the anti-gun attitude of the campaigner.

    “The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all.”
    President John F. Kennedy, speech at Vanderbilt University, May 18, 1963

    • kimberly

      It would be just a little bit more difficult to stab someone instead of being in a crowd and shooting someone. Kennedy, Ted? Your going back how many years to do what, there’s no point to prove. He killed her, I doubt that’s what he had in his mind when they got into the car though. I suspect it was a little more in the way of having fun, if you know what I mean. Tell me how many relatives have you lost to guns? I haven’t lost one, but I’m still against them. And maybe one day in a “civilized” society there will no longer be a need for guns, unless it’s the police enforcing the law properly. Do you really need guns to prove something? Are we at war here?
      Are Nazis at the door trying to take over America? Or do you people just like to be able to kill things if the mood is right? You are right about one thing, nothing would have prevented JFKs death. The conspiracy was just too tight. Magic
      bullet and all.

  • Faye

    I am a 70 year old woman who can fire a weapon if necessary. I grew up eating venison, wild ducks, and whatever I had to to survive. I recently drove through our heartland where the floods and excessive rains have prevented farmers from getting their crops planted. Do those antigun activists expect me to shoot a deer for them so they won’t starve when they have no corn or other products in the grocery store? Are you kidding me? But our demo friends will make sure we pay for their poor little souls by giving them handouts and taxing us for it. What a nation of idiots we have become. I salute our troops and those who carry our guns in peace, but are also prepared for danger.

    • kimberly

      Oh aren’t you some old lady. Shooting whatever you had to in order to survive. Cheers for you. Unless you’ve been dozing for the last 8 years, it’s been the
      Republicans who screwed this country up, but then people like you love to blame the Democrats for everything, even things they never did. Support the troops? Why don’t you support them all the way home? Instead of dying for nothing but what the former administration lied about. The Democrats aren’t angels either, but the idiot
      that occupied the White House for 8 years is an enemy of my country. He and his cronies are liars, thieves, and killers. So don’t go tooting your horn about the Democrats, cause it was the Republicans that started killing our children.

      • http://none BJ

        Kimberly, I’m a grandmother of six, and have lost a close friend to a bullet, but I do carry a handgun. We live in the country and have rattlesnakes too numerous to be comfortable, in addition to the possibility of some two-legged snake that might happen to stop at an out-of-the-way home. I love where I live and appreciate being away from the chaos of city life (having lived in two large cities), but I do live with the reality that one needs to be prepared, therefore I keep my handgun available. I’m neither Republican nor Democrat, just one who’s lived in many places and learned from many different experiences. I’ve grown to respect my heritage, cherish our freedoms in this country, and feel that defending our constitution is becoming more and more important. I don’t feel like an extremist, even though I am a Christian and want to defend a way of life where one takes responsibility for oneself and one’s family and one’s country. While not happy with President Bush, I’m terribly frightened by Obama with his backing by a majority of liberals in Congress, mainly because of their attempts to destroy our country in so many ways, especially taking away so many of our freedoms. Are you aware that one of those freedoms is speaking out as we all have been without the threat of punishment? We are truly blessed and privileged to live in this country and I hope to be able to continue with the many privileges we have.

        • kimberly

          Well finally someone with some rationality. I too have grandchildren as I mentioned before, my son has guns in his house, I don’t like that, but it’s his life and his family. As far as rattle snakes go, I understand the mentality, but being the tree hugging, full blooded Liberal that I am, I, unless it’s going to strike, believe that every living thing has the right to live. My son was shot five times while he was house painting, that’s what he does and thankfully not one bullet hit any vital organs. This was done by a complete stranger who felt like shooting off his gun while driving with friends. Nothing good comes from guns, ever. As far as our rights to free speech are concerned, sorry I must disagree with you. When Bush was Prez, I along with others I know were actually afraid to speak over phones about what a mistake this country made by allowing him to steal the Presidency. Afraid to check out certain books from Libraries, terrified of that BS Patriot Act Bill. As far as Obama is concerned, he’s only been in 5 months, so the jury is still out on him. I voted for him because I couldn’t stand another Republican in charge. I don’t believe in torture, I don’t believe in storm troopers raiding homes on bogus info. And that is what happened over the last 8 years. Let me also emphasize as a
          woman that I am a Feminist and what the Middle East do with their women is atrocious and they should be put in a cell and fed three times a day and that’s all. I know I’m going to offend some men, thankfully not all, because the youth, (males) are finally figuring out that we are equal. But there are still a lot of men in this country that still believe women should be barefoot and pregnant, and as a few I’ve heard actually state, “women shouldn’t be able to vote if they had their way.” There are also women who have been brain washed since childhood that men were better, not so and maybe, just maybe if the Planet survives the world will understand that we are all human beings.
          That we don’t put people into categories, we are living, breathing beings.
          So, I hope you never have to use that gun you carry, cause like I said nothing good comes from guns.

        • SSG Prasuhn

          BJ — Here! Here! To your response. Should it ever come down to that, you can share my foxhole any time. I’ll cover your ‘six’ as you cover mine.

          As you may well know, ‘THAT’ seems to be the problem with ‘this’ country these days….(far) too many people have ‘given’ up on protecting their rights as guaranteed under ‘The Constitution’. Why? Because they’ve been handed everything on a silver platter all their lives and have no concept of what it take’s to ‘keep’ those freedoms. To them it’s a ‘given’ that they’ll (their freedoms) will be around forever. WRONG ATTITUDE!!

          Stay as you are and ‘pass the word’ to others along your way.

          Live long and FREE!

      • SSG Prasuhn

        Me thinks you need to get a life and see a ‘shrink’. Your head seems to be screwed on ‘wrong’ — in addition to being ‘screwed up’.

        It’s not the Dems or the Reps ‘only’ that have screwed up and SCREWED our great nation. BOTH have and (should) share EQUAL responsibility.
        Neither party seems to be ‘following’ The Constitution of The United States — A document penned by the Forefathers of our country as (a) ‘The’ basis for how our government should be run so that ‘We’ (The People) of ‘today’ don’t or wouldn’t have to go through what they did to get and keep all the freedoms rendered under that ‘piece of paper’ that they fought so vigilantly and honorably for. Now, ‘both parties’ tend to think of it as a piece of toilet tissue to be flushed down the drain (commode) after they’re don ‘soiling’ it.

        Again, ‘get a life’ and get your head put on straight!

        ‘Nuff Said’,

        • SSG Prasuhn

          Belay that last one Kimberly…..DON’T see a shrink!! That’s probably your problem to start with. Shrinks (Psychos for short) are part of today’s problems. They’re part of the ‘Social Engineering’ (a.k.a. ‘Brainwashing’) the government is trying to ‘force’ on everyone.

          Trust me, I know how ‘this’ works. I spent 20 years in the military and they are constantly trying to ‘brainwash’ you into one thing or another. They tried for 20 years and it didn’t work with me — and many, many others THANK GOD!!

          If you — or any one else believes everything ‘your’ government tells you, BOY! Are YOU in for a BIG surprise in the ‘end’ (meaning BOTH figuratively and literally)!

          ALL politicians LIE just to get elected so they can ‘ply’ their wiles for what ‘they’ want…NOT what ‘you’ want (them to do).

          Get Well Soon!!

        • kimberly

          Again your proof of being one of the lunatics I speak of. There was a time when the Constitution said Black people weren’t completely human. You agree with that? By the way we share %98 DNA with Chimps, along with less % of DNA with other animals. So, does that make us all less human? Get your head together, cause dude your a nut. The Constitution was written by old white men that at least had the knowledge that times would change and left that important paper open to change. Get your multiple stories straight. I’d love to see a gun in your hand, oh yeah, you’d be the first to hit the ground. If you don’t understand that last comment, it means coward.

      • Richard

        See! Michael Savage is right! Liberalism is a mental disorder.

        • kimberly

          Gore Vidal was right, Republicans are a state of mind. Their against everything.

    • http://none BJ

      Faye, I join you in your salute to those brave souls fighting for our country, and those ready for what may happen. I also grew up eating wild game, and do so by choice now. It was my father who provided it when I was a child. Now my husband and I both hunt, process the meat and are nourished physically and spiritually by our own actions. As for the issue of defending my constitutional rights, I’m willing to fight for that also, believing that I can achieve freedom for others in my country as well. If I were younger and in better health, I’d probably be in uniform fighting for this country. I don’t believe those who’ve died for this country did so in vain as Kimberly seems to think. Having lived in the middle east, I believe that our soldiers are providing something that so many people there have not experienced in their lifetimes–someone trying to help them in so many ways. This issue has so very many facets to consider.

      • kimberly

        Tell me why didn’t you stay in the Middle East and help them so very much? Like the kids that have had their limbs shot off. Spare the rhetoric. What Osama did was insane, does that mean that we become like them? I don’t think so. You continue to kill animals and one day you’ll realize your killing yourself. Again, nothing good comes from guns! Oh by the way, whose knocking down your home to do you harm? Is someone banging on your doors so that you must defend you and yours? If so, maybe you should move.

  • SSG Prasuhn

    Sorry Kimberly, ‘Crocodile Tears’ DON’T cut it. You’ll have to do better than that.

    If you’ll notice, I didn’t stipulate one party or the other…I refer to BOTH parties. The only difference between them is the time they’re able to ‘spend’ (and spend and spend and…) in office.

    ‘Nuff Said’,

    • kimberly

      Boo Hoo. I don’t cry over idiots, I don’t cry over anything except the stupidity of others like yourself, no I take it back, you don’t deserve the energy.

  • http://none BJ

    In response to Kimberly, once again, I disagree about your view of guns. When one is defending one’s life or the life of someone else, a gun can be very useful. I have killed three rattlers before they struck me. I wouldn’t hesitate to kill the two-legged kind if my or someone else’s life was threatened. I grew up with guns in our home, our kids did the same, as have our grandkids. Within our family there’s a healthy respect for the lethal ability of these guns, and for people and life itself. Kimberly, how would you feel if someone came into your home, your yard or some public place and was threatening the lives of your grandchildren? If you could not save them through the power of your words, how would you feel? If your grandchildren’s lives were being threatened and some person nearby was able to save them with the use of their own gun, would you not be thankful for the fact that your grandchildren would still be alive? I don’t think that any law-abiding citizen, like those you’ve been bashing here, would think lightly of taking any human life or any life at all. Just because someone is willing to put their life on the line in order to save oneself or another doesn’t mean that it’s done without considerable thought. The battle we’re fighting right now in defending the 2nd amendment concerns the idea that we want to be able to defend ourselves legally against the criminals. If those who want to ban guns have their way, the only ones who’ll have guns are the criminals. Can you not see that? In addition, Kimberly, I take a bit of comfort in knowing that my gun may help provide some impact that I may not be able to manage as a petite woman against some much larger and stronger person who may be on drugs or crazed beyond reason, or a politician who believes that no matter what the law is on his or her side.

    • kimberly

      You see the problem here? If someone came to do me or mine harm, more than likely they would have a weapon. So again, nothing good comes from guns. I would do everything humanly possible to protect my family, but I wouldn’t be the one breaking into someone’s space, the nut would be doing that. And the nut would be the one wanting to cause harm, not me. What the outcome would be now, I don’t know. I did have problems when I was a younger woman and I’m still here, so I do know I have in the past been able to get out of bad situations. Being an older woman now, I can’t answer what would happen. I hope I never have to find out. I don’t like hurting people, but self defense is a different situation. But, I’ve never needed a gun to protect myself. Luckily I have been able to get out of very dangerous situations in the past. As you may notice, I can talk.

  • Charlie

    Kimberly does not believe in “Storm Troopers” raiding homes. Well, neither does anyone else I know. But, President Obama maybe does!! HR1388, house bill in US House of Representatives is for “Creation of CIVILIAN National Security Task Force”. In Obama’s words, “just as powerful, just as strong, just as well funded as our military, comprised of at least 50% disadvantaged youth, with 250,000 manpower by 2011. Hitler’s Storm Troopers comes to mind – the SS. I think the key word here is CIVILIAN. What do we do with the National Guard? Oh, and Kimberly, I’ll bet they will be CARRYING GUNS!!

    “…just powers from the consent of the governed…..”

    And, did you know that the Credit Card Bill Obama signed has a provision in it that allows people to carry a gun in National Parks??? What’s up with that?

    • SSG Prasuhn

      Good point, Charlie! I must have been ‘cat napping’ on that one. I haven’t seen anything on SB1388 as yet. Thanks for the ‘update’.

      The bit about ‘guns in national parks’….We’ve always been able to ‘have’ guns in national parks — just NOT loaded, assembled (as in the case of rifles, shotguns or pistols with removable cylinders) and ‘ready’ for use.

      The ‘new’ bill/law will now allow guns to be ‘ready to use’ (in an emergency situation ONLY — i.e., in case of grizzly bear encounters where the bear is ‘attacking’, etc.)

      • Charlie

        It’s not “SB1388″ it is “HR1388″ I saw this on a video of a speech by Obama. don’t remember when, about 2 months ago maybe(??) Searched it out and found reference to the House bill.

        Yep, now we can carry a loaded gun AND a Credit Card at the same time!!

        • SSG Prasuhn

          Sorry Charlie! (Where have I heard that line before??? )

          I rushed in like a ‘crazed’ SWAT Team on a drug bust and got the wrong ‘House’ number (SB1388 instead of HR1388).

          Thanks for correcting me.

    • kimberly

      Well let’s see, has any SS stormed your home yet? I already said the jury is still out on Obama, read what I’ve said. I couldn’t stand another Republican dictator in the White House. What about the Patriot Act? Did you just ignore that whole fiasco?
      One couldn’t even picket against what that lying, thieving, murdering, thug when he was speaking someplace. We weren’t allowed to voice our disapproval with what that creature did to this Country. So, while your ranting, get it right, not just what you dislike, get it all down, then maybe you might make sense.

  • Springer

    Wow! I see even more Patriots here! (and zealot idiots like that k person)
    Check out the debate over here:

    I’ve had my hands full with another idiot there.
    When will these people realize their safety and ours comes down to responsible citizens owning and carrying firearms?
    Keep up the fight! One day all the anti-gunners will be screaming for our protection, when they realize the police can’t be everywhere 24/7, from those who’d do them harm.

    • kimberly

      When I need protection it will be from people like you. I can take care of myself. Your the one who needs a weapon. Make you feel like a man, does it? Well your right up there with all the other nuts that like to shoot at anything that breathes.

  • SSG Prasuhn

    TO: kimberly Reply: –June 21st, 2009 at 10:20 am — “Are you the one that sent an automated reply? Yes idiots get into cars to harm/kill people, the same lunatics that buy guns to do the same. By the way gun dealers will sell to anyone. A little lying, false ID and dealers will sell to anyone to make money, so don’t tell that ridiculous lie. I know this from personal experience. Make money no matter what, the American Way. Every country needs improvement, including ours. No good comes from guns. Death and destruction is the only answer. If any of you take a good look inside yourselves and ask if there is a good reason for owning a weapon and answer yes, your lying to yourselves. ‘Nuff said!”…………….

    I’ve seen more idiots in cars these days than I have (or that’s been reported in the news) with guns. Speeders, wreckless drivers, people (ladies) putting make up on while driving, ‘lost souls’ reading a map while driving, numb nuts ‘texting’ while driving and those ‘engrossed’ in a (cell) phone conversation while driving. This is safe? NOT!!

    About the gun dealers…NO! NO!! and NO!!!…An ‘honest’ gun dealer WILL NOT sell to ‘just anyone’. They never have and never will. If someone uses ‘false’ ID to obtain a gun, and their ‘background’ (from the FBI) comes back ‘negative’ (showing no record or no ‘convictions’ restricting them from possessing a gun (pistol) — let alone a rifle or shotgun — Hell, they (convicts) aren’t even allowed to possess a BB (or pellet) gun.) then there’s nothing keeping the gun dealer from selling them one — and it would be ‘determined’ legal. The same would apply to a store clerk selling alcohol or tobacco to a ‘minor’ who presents (fake) ID stating that they are old enough to make such a purchase. It’s the USER ‘NOT’ the MAKER of the weapon that determines whether that ‘tool’ will be used for good or evil.

    Anyone and I mean ANYONE who thinks getting rid of guns will ‘protect’ them is living with their head in the sand. Once WE (The People) lose that ‘Right To Keep and Bear Arms’, the only ones with guns will be the criminals and the government. Think back to your schoold days (if you learned anything about Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Moussolini (sp?), Chavez and others like them)….the ‘first’ thing they did was ‘take the guns from the people’, leaving them (the people) powerless against their ‘evil deeds’. Is that what you and the other ‘anti-gunners’ want?? To live in FEAR all your life? Think it won’t happen? Guess again! We’re (America) are NOT that strong that such could or would not happen to us. Anyone thinking otherwise is just to ARROGANT to realise the difference a gun makes.

    I don’t profess using a gun to ‘settle a difference’ between quarraling neighbors over a property line or the like; BUT ‘I DO’ defend the right of ANY citizen of this country of ours to have the ‘RIGHT’ to bear arms in their own (or their family’s or neighbors’) defense against tyranny, terrorism and ‘Defense of the Homeland’.

    Oh, and I’m NOT a coward as you believe. I spent 20-years in the Army defending your right to be an IDIOT. YOU OWE ME and many millions like me who served THEIR country!!!

    ‘Nuff Said’,


  • Flu-Bird

    Any city that bring a lawsuit against the gun makers should be boycotted during the summer tourists season we can realy cuase them to regret their actions through a boycott

  • Lee Beniteau

    What is there in “shall not be infringed” that the liberals and progressives don’t get? Is it really that complicated? Also, how can a manufacturer make more guns than the market needs and still sell them? Duh! If the market doesn’t need them that means no one is buying them. It is senseless to attempt discourse with progressives or liberals. They refuse to debate without name calling and issue dodging, never addressing the issue under discussion directly by using diversion or ad hominem arguments, among other logical fallacies at their disposal.

  • Meteorlady

    WOW a Glock jumped up, ran out and killed someone. While I’m sorry for the victim, they just spent a lot of my tax dollars and making lawyers rich. If I following the reasoning – pencils misspell words. I resent these lawsuits, they cost us millions and millions of dollars for nothing. These people should have sued the perpetrators, not the gun mfgs. but that’s the way lawyers work – go after the big money.

  • warner mobley

    You want my gun? Just follow the brass!


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